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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m not usually a big polo shirt fan, but something about this ribbed polo from Good American really hits me the right way. Perhaps it’s the knit material, which looks a bit more formal than the horse- and alligator-adorned polos of my preppy youth.
I think this would look fantastic tucked into a bright pencil skirt with a sweater blazer and a chunky gold necklace. For the weekend, I would wear it with a pair of high-waisted jeans and a long cardigan.
The top is $135 at 11 Honoré and comes in sizes 1X–3X. Straight sizes and additional colors (in lucky sizes) are available on the Good American site, where the top is currently 20% off.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I had a shirt like this in – 2001?? It gaped in the front and the ribbed fabric stretched unevenly over time. No thank you.
Anon
The model looks stoned. Not sloe-eyed and sultry, jus straight-up baked.
Anon
My mom must have taken this pic. Family of Quakers and she can bring this out of all of them with how she times the shutter speed or something.
Sybil
Yeah my first thought was “this is horrible” and my second was “oh right I had this.”
Cat
ooh same, why did we wear so many shiny materials around that time??
If you go to the product page you can see it’s gaping even on the model. And I’m validated in my initial reaction that this is “office attire…but make it s3xy” by the product page, which identifies it as part of the “S3xy Knits Collection.” I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised given the Kardashian origin!
Pompom
Agree–I had this 20 years ago. And the ribs stretched unevenly to be basically a topographic map of my b 0 0 bs. Yay?
Anon
+1 This is my exact memory of these shirts. No thank you to the second time around.
anon
2001 fashion was a confusing time. Make it preppy, but slinky. I was a senior in college then, and when I look back on my outfits from that time, I cringe so hard. Talk about an identity crisis!
Anonymous
This would have been worn with synthetic trousers and block-heel loafers. No thank you.
anon
Which are now back in fashion, of course! (fellow “elder millennials”, it is now our time for popular trends from our youth to come back around!)
Anonymous
We have lots of readers – my local libraries often sell withdrawn books. The sticker with the Dewey decimal number is still on dozens of my books. I’d like to purchase a sticker or label to cover it up on the spine so I can easily identify “mine” vs “library” books. (Tried keeping them on separate shelves but books go everywhere in my house.) Any ideas? My best one is plain white printer labels, but I’d prefer something a little nicer and thicker.
Allie
What about using black electrical tape?
A Nonny Mouse
Or a pretty washi tape? It comes in various widths.
TheElms
Washi tape in a pattern you like?
Vicky Austin
Washi tape is the answer!
Anon
My husband went to pick up my scripts last night, and I asked him to grab a box of tampons while he was there. He ended up going to another store because he asked for help (turns out they’d changed the box design) and the teenage clerk wouldn’t stop giggling the entire time.
It is Karen-y that I really want to complain about this? It’s 2021 and we’re still tee-heeing that women have periods and their husbands do errands for them. If you can’t deal with the human body, go work in fast food.
I’d stop using CVS if my insurance company didn’t force me to go there for scripts.
anon
OMG a teenager responding like this when a man asks for help with tampons is not worthy of a complaint. You really want to get that kid in trouble for this? I also can’t believe your husband went to a different store over this. My lord. I would have been mortified as a teen to have a man ask me about period supplies!
No. Do not complain about this.
Anon
How could he not go to a different store? He asked for help because he couldn’t find what he needed, and she stood there cackling instead of helping.
anon
This isn’t hard. Send him a picture of what you need or find another employee. It’s tampons, not a rocket ship.
Anonymous
And before you lay into me about the pic aspect and the change in the box design, again, find another employee or use some critical thinking and match up the brand and the description to get the same thing but in the different box. I just cannot imagine calling to file a complaint against a teenage employee who is working for peanuts for feeling awkward when a man asks for help with tampons.
anon
Re pic and the box design change, again, find another employee or match the brand and description to the new design. There are just not that many tampon options out there!
Anon
Seriously. Why in the world did your husband even need to ask for help?
I don’t get this at all. Presumably he understands how to deal with different product designs, and can google the old box design if not? What did he think the worker would do? Usher him to a secret location in the back where they keep extra tampon boxes? Point out that the box that says Tampax Regular is probably the Tampax Regular that he’s looking for?
I’d file a complaint for your husband acting like he can’t read boxes or do basic shopping tasks. It’s not cute to involve a teenager in your feigned incompetence.
Anonymous
+1 a grown @ss adult expecting their learned helplessness to be dealt with by a literal child is not cute.
Anon
+1 to filing a complaint against your husband. I’m sure he was looking for those tampons with his man eyes.
Anon
As a 16 year old, I hadn’t even really used tampons myself, so if some clueless guy asked me about them, I probably would have giggled too. It’s not like I would have had any ability to figure out what he needed better than he could on his own. If it was so confusing, why didn’t he just call you? That’s what I do if buying something for my husband that I know he’s picky about and I can’t find exactly the right option (other things I just grab the best looking option).
Anon
Please give teenagers the space they need to be idiots and to grow up. There was no malice, only awkwardness. Let it go.
Anonymous
I’m annoyed with you. I’d let it go but I’m annoyed. They shouldn’t be making people feel crummy about needing the stuff they sell. Do they giggle at old men buying Ed medication? I imagine that would result in a complaint.
anon
Cool! It’s a teenager giggling. I would feel the same way about a teenager giggling about an ED medicine for a man. I am annoyed that her husband couldn’t manage this this very inconsequential issue with a teenage employee. So we both get to be annoyed!
Cat
I would think the girl was giggly in general amusement at “baffled man in tampon aisle” – he was probably making meme-worthy faces of confusion. Mature? No. Surprising teen behavior? Also no. Chill, and next time have your husband call or text you if he is confused.
anon
+1. Do not get this kid in trouble over something this inconsequential.
Charlotte
Heck, I’m 45 and I’d probably snicker if I observed the interaction (or offer to help a confused dude), but come on OP, lighten up already. That is a total Karen move and there are enough real problems to complain about.
Anon
Yeah, I’m 42 and I’d laugh at a grown, married man who couldn’t figure out how to buy tampons without a teenager’s assistance. OP, I don’t know if you have kids or not, but I hope he doesn’t ever have to try to help his own teenage daughter navigate the period products aisle.
Anon
I’m 40 and would step in to help him. He probably wants to get the exact tampons his wife asked for, knowing that the wrong ones won’t work correctly for her. He doesn’t want to be “that” husband who brought home Tampax Supers when she asked for Plate regulars.
Also, I am assuming that the OP and her husband know more about the amount of “giggling” that went on. Did she laugh a bit, or was she too busy making fun of the guy to DO HER JOB? Given that he left, I’m assuming the latter. CVS employees know how to look at their facings and can look up things in the system – no need for laughing because it’s a feminine hygiene product.
Anonymous
I totally would have giggled too and not because of anything related to female anatomy. I would have laughed because …gee yet another helpless man.
Allie
This is Karen-y because you’re considering taking something of little consequence to your husband (a teen giggling) and turn it into something of potentially big consequence to her (repremanded at work). Generally, if it’s little consequence to you, and potentially big consequence to them, try to live and let live.
Monday
This is a good definition of Karen behavior, and maybe a way out of the demographic stereotyping (though a different word for Karening would be ideal). Karen is someone who uses their position of greater power/leverage to take up an issue that barely affected them, and takes action that will seriously affect the other person.
This is why nobody is Karen who is complaining about a serious harm or risk to them. Then they’re just advocating on a legitimate concern.
I don’t call people Karen, but I do think the OP should drop it.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t complain and cost a teen a job. Also, are you 100% sure your husband wasn’t contributing to the sillness in terms of how he asked? Like taking a “ha. ha. gee whillikers what do i know i’m just a dude” approach?
I’ve worked at a pharmacy as a teen (age 16-19) and while it was an independent one vs a chain, we often had people come in with requests that required stifling a giggle esp when you are a dumb teen. It’s hard! I mean, I did it, but still.
Anon
I mean, I think of my husband doing this for me (which he has, fwiw) and the look of puzzlement I imagine he would have on his face makes me giggle just thinking about it.
Boycotting a fairly omnipresent pharmacy chain over this and getting a teenager in trouble is an insane overreaction. What’s really going on?
Anonymous
Yes, it’s karen=y. If it were an adult then maybe your husband can call the next day and make a comment, but for a kid? Please.
Anon
IMO if someone can’t do their job, they should get another one. People go to a chemist for all kinds of sensitive products.
anon
Your equating a teenager who stocks shelves and runs a cash register at CVS with a pharmacy tech? Come in. The latter absolutely should be able to manage this without giggling, but a teenager with a close to if not minimum wage job? Get a grip.
Anon
I volunteer with teens and when they go off the rails a bit, I do enjoy the privilege of age and help them course-correct. Maybe a skill spouse should learn?
anon
That’s great! I think an, “I know this is awkward, I bet you don’t talk to many men about tampons! I really want to help my wife out here, do you think you could try to help me?” Would probably have helped a lot.
Anon
You sound unhinged. If you’re the OP, yes it is a wild overreaction to get a teenager in trouble at work (it’s quite possible she and her family NEED that money, btw…) because your husband’s feelings were hurt over some pretty normal awkwardness.
Anonymous
I have a response in mod but wanted to add that I personally dislike being laughed at. Some people just laugh at others out of habit or nervousness or cruelty. When my very large employer failed to pay me for two weeks, I had a video conference with an HR rep. She kept saying that they’d probably straighten it out soon and Id probably get it in the next pay period. I said that I needed more reassurance than that, that my paycheck was overdue and I wanted the money immediately. I was polite but definitely not friendly. Well, this woman, a 30 something HR person, could not stop giggling. Every sentence was “hahahah…well…” I finally said “look, I don’t think this is funny and I don’t think it’s appropriate for you to be laughing about this” and she seemed mortified but I’m still annoyed at how she handled it.
anon
I think that’s very fair but missing pay is wildly different than not being able to find the right tampon box! I’d have been annoyed AF in your scenario too and I am an anon who the OP is being ridiculous. There are, and should be, different expectations for different jobs and age ranges!
Anon
Humans aren’t robots though. You’re not wrong, but you meet people where they are, which often isn’t where we need them to be. You can talk them up to what you need by whatever means, but getting snippy and /or yelling often doesn’t yield the desired results (and makes you look unhinged). Managing people is a skill because people are tricky sometimes.
Anonymous
I disagree with this take. I think it looks far more unhinged to giggle over a missing paycheck issue when the employee is politely but firmly pointing out what needs to be resolved. The poster here responded completely appropriately and did not lose her cool in any way.
Anon
Yeah, I have to agree. But a missing paycheck is a BFD and not the same as OP’s scenario at all.
Monday
Yeah, this situation is totally different because a) missing pay is a huge problem for the person affected; b) the HR rep is in a position of power. I agree that she was probably laughing out of discomfort and immaturity, and this has been done to me too when I asked to be paid. But it isn’t okay, because she’s a full adult who works in HR and needs to find the paycheck. Not a teenager who works at CVS and can’t find the tampons.
Anon
Laughing is a sign of nervousness and a reaction to try to diffuse tension. She wasn’t laughing at you, she probably didn’t know how to handle the situation. And most companies can’t just cut you a check immediately, fwiw – they’d also need to make sure you actually didn’t get paid, so you were probably a little extra there.
Nina
It’s still impolite to laugh at someone. Sure the HR person must have felt a bit awkward, but she wasn’t the one not getting paid! Not getting paid is a worse situation that . .. being asked to do your job.
Anon
Sorry, but it still sounds like OP had no situational awareness and going off on an HR person at a large company isn’t the right answer.
Anon
She didn’t “go off.” She told her laughing isn’t appropriate and it isn’t. The HR woman sounds incredibly unprofessional and I would have handled it the same way. But a teenager snickering about tampons is a very different story.
Senior Attorney
HR person: Wrong, even though she was almost certainly laughing out of nervousness. Company should have cut the check.
Anonymous at 9:36: Right, and well within her rights to call HR person out on the missing pay and the laughing.
Teen in drugstore: Wrong, even though (again) almost certainly reacting out of nervousness and also being a teen.
OP on this thread: Wrong. Let it go. Don’t get a minimum wage employee in trouble over this!
OP’s husband: Also wrong. Find the tampons your own self, Dude!
Anon
Yeah these situations are completely different. 30-something HR person giggling about an employee’s overdue pay is in no way equivalent to a teen giggling about tampons.
AIMS
But you see what you did there? You spoke up! And the HR Person was mortified and realized her error and probably wont do it again.
OP, your husband should have spoken up. Calling to complain now is not the move, imo. I can’t imagine a world where I would not just calmly say to the giggling teen, “I don’t think this is something to giggle about. I am asking you for X product, do you or do you not have it? And, if you can’t help me is there someone else who can?” Ditto on calling you with the options that were available. Going to another store is the LAST resort.
So many issues can be solved by just being direct and speaking up about whatever your issue is.
Anon
So much this. Your husband can use his words!
Anon
This right here is the answer!
Senior Attorney
YESSSSSSSSSSSS!
Anonymous
You handled it perfectly. Most of us have behavioral tics that cause us to come off as less polished or professional than we wish. This is a lesson that she needed to learn and will serve her very well throughout her career. You did her a real kindness in pointing this out.
all about eevee
Yes, this is Karen-y of you. Drop it and move on.
Anon
This will get you crowned Queen of the Karens.
Anonymous
I think people are being harsh! It’s totally fine to be annoyed about this, I’d want to complain too. It’s definitely not worth actually making a complaint about as it is likely just teenage awkwardness (my husband still goes on about a women who asked him how to find the c*ndom section when he worked in a chemist as a young teen…sigh). I do think it’s fine to vent though. Also, if you don’t use tampons but know the box by sight I don’t think it’s that easy to find the equivalent, my husband would have phoned me which I think is more annoying than asking an employee which is what yours did.
Anonymous
But like do you imagine CVS employees are trained on all the different types of tampon options? He needed to either call his wife, read the boxes, or just pick one and hood it’s good enough.
Cat
yeah seriously – I am super picky about tampons so would rather have husband call me for clarification rather than take a half-educated guess based on a random employee’s help.
Anonymous
I suspect this is fake and that it’s not about a “husband.” On the off chance it’s not, you don’t need to use the word “Karen” – it’s misogynistic and having a direct negative effect on women advocating for themselves when their rights are being ACTUALLY violated.
If this is an AGP posting, knock it off.
anon
+1 on “karen” being misogynistic and having a direct negative effect on women advocating for themselves in serious situations. Asking if the proposed action would have been “unreasonable” or “obnoxious” would have worked just as well without the misogyny.
pugsnbourbon
The impulse to call is tiptoeing into Karen territory; making an actual complaint is a cannonball dive into Karendom.
All of us get our hackles up at petty annoyances occasionally. I know I sometimes have to take a deep breath and ask myself how deep it really is.
Anonymous
+ 1 on cannonballing, especially since it didn’t even happen to YOU. No Karening based on hearsay.
Anon 2.0
You’re viewing this from your perspective only. You have no idea the culture/family in which this teen was raised. Perhaps it would be unheard of that a man would do this for his wife. She personally may feel shame, embarrassment, etc due to a upbringing that places those emotions on these type of products. She is a teenager working for low wage in a time where these type of positions are very hard to fill. To file a complaint would be a gross overreaction.
anonymous
I don’t know why your husband didn’t just call you when he couldn’t find the exact brand, etc. that you need. I would have done that first before asking the store clerk. Also don’t complain/report about this.
Ci
Total Karen move. Also I worked at a pharmacy as a teenager and had creepy men ask me weird stuff all the time. Not saying that’s your husband but cut the child some slack. You seem like a truly horrible and petty person.
Anon
Yes, this is why I might have giggled as a teen (=feeling nervous and feeling a safety need to downplay any discomfort because of past experiences with boundary violating creeps). We don’t always magically know which men are asking genuine questions and which ones are striking up a conversation that is going to become inappropriate.
amberwitch
I mean .. *you* would complain about something your *husband* experienced?
That sounds .. unproductive and as a massive overreaction. If *he* feels the need to complain, he should probably consider why he didn’t speak up in the situation. And both of you should consider the relationship dynamics that lead you to want to complain about something that happened to him – babying much?
Anonymous
I got my first job in retail when I was 14. A woman asked if I could recommend an optician in town. I had never heard it referred to as an optician before, it was “the eye doctor” in my house, so I heard obstetrician. I proceeded to ask my coworkers, the closest of whom was a teenage boy (whose gf had just given birth, but of course this poor lady didn’t know that), if they knew of an obstetrician nearby, as I had never been to one. The lady tried to correct me and we had a who’s on first-like back and forth, with the teenage boy stifling a laugh as best he could, until an adult coworker came by and took pity on this lady. I’m really glad no one tattled on me to my boss. It was my first job and I wanted to badly to be helpful!
Anon
Frankly, that’s what an adult gets for asking a 14 year old that kind of question. Situational awareness is key!
Anon
To answer your question, yes that would be Karen-y. It’s a teenager we’re talking about. And your man’s feelings were hurt so badly you’re considering calling the store on his behalf… because why? He’s incapable of phoning? … to get a teenager fired. Karen 101. Look forward to seeing your picture on the memes.
Anonymous
billing question: I am working as an expert witness for a firm through a 3rd party. My timesheet is sent to the 3rd party, presumably marked up, then sent to the firm/client. My paycheck comes from the 3rd party.
I am only working on one matter. When I bill my time, does it make sense to do it like this:
[date] [2 hours] read and responded to emails, reviewed materials pertaining to XX, documented opionion, drafted response
OR
[date] [15 minutes] read and responded to emails
[same date] [45 minutes] reviewed materials pertaining to X
[same date] [1 hour] documented opinion & drafted response
I reached out to the 3rd party who said to bill time down to the minute (eg no rounding) but beyond that had no guidance. I only want to make sure that when my time ends up at the firm/client, it looks usual/customary. FWIW I’d much rather do the first option as I tend to work on this matter in time blocks, not piecemeal throughout the day.
brokentoe
#1. Even though they have been very specific about how to bill, no one wants to wade through that level of detail
Anonymous
I’m so glad this is the answer. Thanks :)
EB
The answer is probably the first, but it really depends on whether the entity you are contracted with has billing guidelines. When I do insurance defense work, for example, I am required to specify the time spent on various tasks like your second example. Sounds like there’s no guidance indicating #1 is not appropriate here, but I wanted to clarify the response to indicate that on a more general level, more specific bills can sometimes be required in litigation.
Sunshine
Also think #1. Although I might keep both for a few months. Send in #1. If it gets rejected, then you have #2. If it gets approved a few times, then keep going with #1.
Anonymous
I block bill unless instructed otherwise. Ask for forgiveness not permission.
Former Insurance Defense Counsel
If the client has no guidelines then block billing is probably fine here. However, I caution that if the third party is an auditing company or you are dealing with insurance, then you really do have to break down every single entry into 6 minute increments. (1) Review email from ABC (counsel for XYZ) regarding _________.; (2) Prepare email to ABC (counsel for XYZ) responding to issues regarding regarding ______.; (3) Etc., ad nauseam. Yes – it is absurd and ridiculous. And yes – it often ends up costing them more money that “Exchange multiple emails with counsel or XYZ re ______.” But they will 100% cut your time if you do not follow their guidelines.
Anon
I’m sure this has been discussed before but I need some advice on dating someone whose career/finances are very different from mine. New relationship and he treats me very well. The problem is we have very different backgrounds, families, education, income, etc. He and his family are blue collar. Most, including him, didn’t go to college. He has a low skilled, low paying job with a pension that seems to be something like the family business. Because of the pension and no higher education, his career isn’t likely to change but he does work in real estate on the side and I’m hoping he can ramp that up. He’s very well read, well traveled, but obviously wasn’t the best planner for his future in his 20’s or we just have very different ideas of planning for the future. My family is all college educated, professional jobs, healthy savings account, very frugal but set up for the future. Although we have a great time together, I’m very worried that being with him means I’d have to give up the lifestyle I’ve envisioned for my future. I worry that either I will have to support us to my lifestyle or decrease my standard of living to something he can afford, which I really don’t want to do after working so hard for so many years. College, law school, shifting out of private practice to an adjacent field and climbing the corporate ladder. I worry about retirement, affording decent healthcare, and living an overall stress-free life. It sounds like his family and his network all just get by and manage without much planning. I feel like most will say we just aren’t compatible but I don’t want to give up a relationship where someone treats me the way that he does. Any advice? Sorry for the stream of consciousness post!
anon
I mean, do you like him for who he is, or for what he can provide? Don’t go into this thinking you can change him (e.g., you’re hoping he ramps up that real-estate career).
Anon
I like him for who he is but how closely is “who we are” tied to our careers and ambitions? My concern is having similar goals and visions for the future. It’s not about him as a person.
anon
From the brief description you’ve written, it doesn’t seem like you respect his path in life. Not everyone wants to hustle or strive for a particular lifestyle. And if that’s something that’ll be a constant worry for you, this isn’t the guy for you.
Anon
+1
Anon
+1
You sound like a total snob.
Anon
Op here. I’m not a snob for working hard to set myself up to have financial security. I’m not well off. Worked incredibly hard for years to build a safety net to not worry about finances. I don’t have a fancy car. I don’t take extravagant vacations. I budget and save and work towards my goals. I like my money in the bank to know that whatever happens I can handle it. Eventually, I’d like to not budget so much. Finances is often the main reason for divorce so my concerns are valid.
Anon
+1
Senior Attorney
Yup. You’re not a match, and that’s okay.
Also there is no such thing as a “low skill” job. He may not have the kinds of skills you value, but all workers have skills.
Anonymous
You straight up cannot have everything you want out of this one guy. You will have to change something — either change your views and values on money and security and the future and your lifestyle expectations or give up the relationship.
Anonymous
Do you know for a fact that his financial situation isn’t that great or are you guessing? Particularly if his job is unionized, his benefits may be very valuable, and he may have more planned than you realize. My husband is a public high school teacher with a pension that has ridiculously high guaranteed earnings; it’s like having a pet unicorn. We pay $0 for very good health insurance coverage for the entire family — if we got this through my employer, it would probably cost us at least 20K/year and the coverage would not be as good. He will still be eligible for this insurance after he retires, although we may have to start paying a bit. And is climbing the corporate ladder really a “stress-free life”?
All that said, it sounds like you don’t respect him. If that is the case you should move on for both of your sakes.
Anonymous
+1 people always weirdly assume based on my job that I’m poor but in reality I have a great salary, iron clad pension, and the best health benefits ever. So OP if you’re assuming and you haven’t actually asked you should probably get on it.
Anonymous
I think your relationship is doomed because you refuse to accept and value him for who he is. Sounds to me like he’s made himself a good life, works hard, has a job with stability, has a plan for retirement, is financially independent and stable, and is a good person. So you can either embrace that, and let go of the fantasy of upgrading your lifestyle by marrying someone making as much or more money than you, or you won’t and it won’t work out.
If you married a fund manager bringing in 40 million would you feel bad that he’s either supporting you to his lifestyle or reducing his lifestyle to what you can afford? No right?
Anonymous
+1. Big yikes to the “and I’m hoping he can ramp that up” comment.
I married a man who made 1/5th what I did at the time. I took it as a good sign that he had $20k in savings (even though I had $500k in savings) bc it meant he wasn’t in debt and spending, and was saving. He didn’t even have a credit card. No school debt beyond the master’s he was getting when I met him. Those traits have served us well even though I continue to be the breadwinner and the financial planner in our relationship.
Anon
+1 For his sake let him go so he can find someone better.
Anon
There’s a lot more to making a relationship work than just love or getting along really well. If you sign up for this you’d have to accept that he will never be a high wage earner (that side hustle will just become something you find) and you’ll always be the breadwinner. Nothing wrong with that if you’re comfortable with all that comes with it. Personally, I wouldn’t make that choice. I have several friends who have and the frustration they have about their finances is real (no safety net, basically the 50s model flipped). My grandmother used to say it’s just as easy to love a rich man as a poor one, and she wasn’t wrong but I’d amend to say easier. Class differences also can be hard to navigate over time. Unless you are so madly in love you can’t live without him, I’d avoid the sunk cost fallacy and start over.
Anon
Many people in trades can make high incomes – I wouldn’t write him off entirely just because his current job is low paying (low paying compared to what, BigLaw?).
anon
Exactly. Sometimes the snobbery here is mindblowing.
Anon
Yes, I’m snobby in who I choose to build a life with. I’m never going to judge others for taking different paths, but pretending it doesn’t matter or decrying someone’s life goals as snobby isn’t the answer. People get to pick who they’re in a relationship with for whatever reason they want.
Anon
Sure, you can! Even super shallow, snobby ones. We’re not going to stop you.
Anon
She specifically said low skill/low wage – that’s not the same as a trade, which is high skilled and often high wage.
Anon
Like I would trust anybody here to know the difference.
Anon
Op here It’s low skilled, low wage. We’re not talking plumber or electrician. We’re not talking he makes $90k as an electrician. Think more like $65k in a very high cost of living city. I make almost double, but expect my income to increase over time and I’m aggressively saving for retirement. His income really won’t increase substantially unless he “ramps up the real estate”. I make a decent amount but actually not a whole lot given our geographic location. It’s not like I make $600k and he’s makes $150k.
Anon
So I get it, and I don’t think this is the guy for you. I used to prioritize someone who made at least as much money as me, but then I found exactly 0 people who fit that requirement and ended up with a guy who makes less than $65k a year (which I actually don’t think is a terrible wage). I had time to let go of that expectation for myself over the years and change my thinking. It sounds like you’re still not sure of what your real goal is and that’s fine. I always thought I’d like to be in a place where I could get married and have kids and take a few years off and it turns out that is not my life, but it’s also fine that it’s not. Someone making $65k with a pension is not in a terrible spot and is still going to contribute thousands each month to the household income so you would be fine, but also maybe you want something else and that’s also fine. Don’t force something you’re not into.
Anon
OP, stop justifying all this and pick up the phone to break up with him. Seriously, you very obviously don’t want to be with him, you should save both of you any more trouble and move on.
Walnut
Lordy, $65k is so far from low wage it’s not even funny. Even in HCOLA.
Anon
Yeah $65k is about 70th percentile for an individual income in the US, so it’s objectively not “low wage.” You can say it’s not enough for the lifestyle you want to live, and that’s your choice, but labeling it as low wage is just factually inaccurate.
Anon
$65k is about $15k over the average household income for a family of four, where I live. Just as an FYI. A single man with no dependents making $65k is absolutely not “low income.”
Anon 2.0
He makes $65K a year and you’re acting as if he works part time at the local GameStop and the real estate venture is building Sims houses. It’s fine if he isn’t right for you but my, the snobbery is showing.
Anon
Op here. $65k might not be low wage when you consider the entire population but this is a blog for ambitious women. In a high cost city where rent is $2k a month on the lower end, that doesn’t leave much after taxes, savings and retirement. Sure you can get by but it would be tough unless you really budget.
Anon
He doesn’t make enough money for you. Break up with him. But it’s simply inaccurate to call someone who earns more than 70% of US workers a “low wage” employee.
And PS “high-achieving” and “ambitious” aren’t synonymous with “high-earning.” Some really important, difficult professions don’t pay that well and it drives me crazy when people act like this place is only for those who earn six figures.
Anon
I live in NYC and my partner makes $65k, I make a bit more, and we have a kid, own an apartment and a car, no debt and save for retirement.
I think you want to break up with him and are trying to use this as an excuse to rationalize it. You don’t need an excuse! Just break up with him if you don’t want to be with him.
Anon
“this is a blog for ambitious women”
I am so over equating ambition with earning a high salary. There’s tons of ambitious people whose ambitious are less remunerative than big law.
Anon
Honestly I don’t think it’s worth it to commit to anybody unless I’m so madly in love I can’t live without them. Barring actual indigence, I think most people want partners who want to be with them more than they want stuff? And things can change so fast; the six figure income professional with all the degrees can get in a car accident or have a stroke or be diagnosed with a serious chronic illness. Yes the savings help, but it’s still life altering and can happen to anyone. So for me these concerns would just mean that I’m not that into him (which is totally fine).
Anon
“And things can change so fast; the six figure income professional with all the degrees can get in a car accident or have a stroke or be diagnosed with a serious chronic illness.”
One of my friends is married to a lawyer who was making $375k/year in his own practice. He slipped and fell and hit his head in the kitchen one night when he got up to get a glass of milk out of the refrigerator (dog had upturned the water bowl onto the tile floor and he couldn’t see the spill in the dark). He ended up with a subdural hematoma, and was in the ICU for two weeks. He thankfully survived but he still gets bad headaches and gets tired much easier, and can only work about 1/3 the amount of hours he could before. They’re fine financially, but he’s not making anywhere near what he was prior to his accident. Life can turn on a dime.
Additionally, while many men I know who were high earners early in their career have gotten turfed out of their fancy white-collar jobs due to age discrimination, my blue-collar uncles and cousins are still working in their trades jobs, because finding replacements for experienced blue-collar workers is so difficult.
I gotta say I am a little taken aback at the number of “high achieving chicks” here who seemingly just want to marry a rich guy. Aren’t we supposed to be taking charge of our own financial destinies, and not relying on men to provide what we want out of life?
Anon
+1 million to your last paragraph.
My life easier because my husband has a flexible and stable job. It really hard to have kids and two high powered careers.
Woof
He sounds like a good match in many ways. I think you need to see a therapist to discuss issues of class, finances, etc. You also need to eventually talk to him about this. What does he envision for his lie? His children? Does he wish he went to college? Sometimes I think we oversell ourselves on the professional career track–it does have lots of drawbacks.
Anon
No, OP, you don’t need to go to therapy because you have different life goals. It’s as fine for you to have gone to college and to come from a different class as it is for him to have a different background. It doesn’t mean you have to date him or that those can’t be dealbreakers for you.
Anonymous
Yeah, you don’t need to go to therapy to save a relationship that hasn’t even started yet. Move on.
Senior Attorney
No, no. At the beginning, especially, the relationship should be easy and as Anon at 11:40 a.m. points out, you should be moving heaven and earth to be together. If you have to go to therapy about it at the beginning, it’s not a match.
Anon
The way you say he’s well read/traveled but wasn’t the best planner for his future/you have different views of what planning for the future looks like reads to me that you don’t really respect his choices/career. There may have been several factors that led him to his current career (ranging from couldn’t afford college to he likes what he does and his happy without $$$).
Allie
If this is going to work you have to truly and completely give up on ” I’m hoping he can ramp that up.” He’ll feel it from you, it will feel crappy to him, and it’s sort of a poison pill. Either this situation works for you enough as is and you can accept that and make the adjustments you need around that, or it doesn’t and you should break up.
Anon
I agree with this! I was in a very similar situation – my husband has a blue collar job and I am a lawyer. My family did have concerns about him when they met him but eventually saw how loving he was to me and now they love him too. He is a great dad and husband. There are helpful trade offs with his job now also – he has more flexibility with the kids and contributes more to the household chores etc. But the key is that I love him for who he is and what he contributes and I don’t have any expectations of his job changing. I will admit though that I do feel pressure that he simply can’t understand since I am the breadwinner for our family. I would love to win the lottery and be able to retire early!
Anonymous
Probably not a good fit for you, unless you reframe a partnership. A marriage is not always about both people bringing money to the table. Sometimes, it takes two people that are quite different to make a marriage/family work.
A blue collar worker with a steady union gig and a pension with set hours (8-4, $90k/year, benefits) is a perfectly reasonable partner! My good friend is a big law partner and her husband is a unionized electrician. He works very predictable hours, makes $120k a year and does ALL the parent tasks for their kids outside of school, coaches like 5 sports teams, and spends his free time putting up newsworthy christmas light displays for the town and neighborhood. I think he might also be on town council or something like that.
She works longer hours at a fancy firm and they live in a big house and afford nice vacations because of it.
They each bring different things to the relationship and it’s been awesome to see them grow over the years.
Anon
While it’s not Big Law money, the idea that someone making 90-120k a year is a low-wage worker is pretty comical.
Anon
Yeah my household income is not much more than $120k and we feel wealthy AF. We have a big house and take lots of fancy vacations and really there’s almost nothing we want and can’t afford to buy. In a LCOL Midwest city and I realize the money wouldn’t go as far in a place like NYC, but still… the idea that someone making this kind of money needs a Big Law partner spouse to afford nice stuff is comical.
Anon
I’d kill to make $100k per year.
pugsnbourbon
Right?
OP if this was the right person for you I don’t think you’d have come here to ask us this.
Anonymous
I posted about the couple above. I’m not sure how old you are, or where you live, but both this couple and I am in MA. At mid career, even teachers make about 80k around here. Certainly not starting out but by the time they are mid 40s, definitely. Just looked and Average salary in my district is 83k. I pay my plumber $150/hr in labor. I recently did a big reno and my site lead contractor made a salary of about $120/year with full benefits (we had a chat about it as my brother in law is also a contractor).
Anon
My friend is a 20 year teacher in MA and makes like $55k. You must live in a very affluent district if your average teacher salary is $83k. That is way above the national average for a teacher.
Anonymous
@anon @ 1:09 yes, I both live in MA and also in a wealthy district. Both of which make it that the average salary is well above the national average (which is why i specified the state). FWIW the average in Boston is almost 70k.
OP is in a HCOL area, so this seemed relevant.
Anon
I’m looking at suburban Boston pay scales. Woburn, step 13, Bachelors: $83,338. Bolton, step 13: $74k. Taunton, step 14: $83k.
Note that Lexington, Wellesley, Andover, etc are not towns I close to look at.
Anon
Then why didn’t you decide to go into a field where you can make $100k?
Anonymous
Do not enter a serious relationship with a man who does not have the same level of education as you. Unequal levels of education are a recipe for future resentment, especially if you’re more educated than him. Even if he seems proud of you now, eventually he’ll start to feel inferior and it will poison the relationship. Same goes for intelligence, even when both partners are similarly educated.
Anon
I don’t think is universally true. I’ve dated all sorts of guys. Some had hang ups and some didn’t.
Bonnie Kate
Well I definitely agree that Anon at 10:20 shouldn’t enter a relationship with someone who doesn’t have the same level of education as them, because clearly they wouldn’t be able to get over it.
But I do think this doesn’t necessarily need to be a dealbreaker for everyone. My DH and I do have the same level of education and similar intelligence levels, so we would be proving the rule – however the older and more into my career I get, the less I value educational level in other people. Like cool if you did it (I’m glad I did), but also really cool if you used that time to learn a trade and start a career. Or maybe you didn’t do that, but you started a business – that maybe failed but now you have that experience and will start another one that won’t. Or maybe you looked at the cost to value of education and didn’t buy into the college recruiter hype that all millennials are required to have a bachelors degree to succeed in life so didn’t go and take out $50k in student loans…..I am genuinely very interested and value all of those different life paths equally. I’m really over using education as some kind of barometer for success or intelligence; it most definitively is not. Heck for a good portion of millennials it turned out to be a completely illogical financial decision, so I give props a little bit to those who resisted the abundance of college-or-fail advice and did something different.
To OP, I think your bf sounds lovely and does have a plan for life, but if it doesn’t look the same as what you want you shouldn’t continue. A conversation where you talk about what kind of house and life and vacations you have will help you know if you’re aligned our not. Way before my DH, there was a guy who I really liked and we were talking about what we wanted our adult life to look like andI remember him saying that really all he wanted was a quieter life sitting on his front porch in a small town. I had a quiet visceral reaction of “oh no, really? Not me..”, and was a reason I moved on and I don’t regret it at all. That feeling helped me realize I really wanted a partner who was ambitious/not easily satisfied – definitely ended up with that in DH. The other guy wasn’t wrong or bad or less valid than DH, he and I just weren’t aligned in what we wanted our future to look and feel like.
Anon
+1
anonymous
Not true. This is a very condescending comment. I have a college degree and my husband has a high school diploma. I make 2x as much as him. We’ve been married 20 years. My husband is very smart in ways that I’m not and a degree is no indicator of someone’s intelligence.
Anonymous
The problem is usually with the less educated person, not the more educated person. Over time, the less educated person will tend to resent the more educated person.
Anon
Maybe. That’s not universally true.
Anon
I think the flip side is that a lot of educated men demand that their career is the ‘primary’ one – even when it is not merited. Men bring headaches! I don’t think it’s limited to any particular kind, lol
Anonymous
This is the worst advice I’ve ever heard. If I (or most women on this board) had these standard I’d literally never be able to go on a date.
Carrie
Seriously.
I have 5 degrees and while I admit, many men self select themselves out of the running when they hear my background (which really stings…) I would never, ever have a date if I had to find a man as “educated” as I am.
I dream of having a Luke Danes, who has a small business or tradesman, who can build/fix anything and would cook me dinners and promise to always be there. I suspect his income is under 65K.
As long as a person is intellectually curious, education is often irrelevant, in my experience.
Anon
Luke on the show was actually portrayed as being quite wealthy. He loaned Lorelei a huge amount of money once and bought them a really big, nice house when they were engaged. But I get your point :)
Cool
Actually, I am rewatching Gilmore Girls now! He had the $ to loan her like $40k, but he would have bought the house with a mortgage (Kirk was the one trying to out bid him on the house and pay cash!). Luke was more the frugal bachelor, living in a studio above his diner with inexpensive hobbies who saved all his $.
Anonymous
I disagree and I think it’s becoming/already is very common for the woman to have a higher level of education than the man. Men have lots of great career options that don’t require a college degree. The trades aren’t as appealing to women, for now. Especially as more office jobs become remote, we’re going to see a lot of college educated women wfh at their desk jobs and also providing at least part time childcare while their skilled tradesmen husbands work outside the home.
Anonymous
As a bachelor’s degree holder from a top school, married to someone with a master’s degree, I’m offended on my own, and others’, behalf.
AZCPA
This is terrible advice, and in no way universally true. *Maybe* consider it a yellow flag as a relationship develops, in case it becomes an issue. I’m the less educated one in my relationship, yet the primary breadwinner. I HATED school and did the minimum to get into my field, whereas my spouse takes college courses for fun.
And especially for my most intelligent, high-powered friends, they have found the most relationship satisfaction with people who aren’t their equals in education or intelligence; they feel relief in knowing their home life is relaxing and supportive.
But the key difference is they (and my spouse) respect their partners, regardless of income or education. And for OP, I think that’s the key issue; there just isn’t sufficient respect for life choices, making them incompatible. Nothing wrong with breaking up over this, but in OP’s case, probably should.
Anon
I have a very similar relationship, but we’ve been together 3 years now. There’s a lot going on in your post, so sorry in advance for the novel. My guy is also in a low wage, blue collar job. He briefly had a side hustle that he ended up hating, so first off, please don’t even consider that as part of the equation. My BF has been saving for retirement commensurate with his income, but only really regularly for a couple of years. Both of his parents were in more blue collar type jobs, but they both have pensions, so they’re doing well financially now. I grew up poor but am now making quite a lot for my LCOL area. I make about 3x what he does, maybe a bit more.
Now that the background is out of the way— At first I had similar concerns to you. Financial security is important to be since I grew up poor, and I got a little wrapped up thinking that I’d have to support him and we wouldn’t be able to take fancy trips, etc. But then I got into the relationship and (1) I’m crazy about him and (2) I found it didn’t really matter that much, after all. At least not so far. I’ve got plenty and I make enough that even if he doesn’t contribute as much financially, we will still be good if we are still together in retirement. I live far below my mean, so I have plenty left over, and it’s important for me to share freely with someone I love.
For me, the most important aspect of this transformation was figuring out exactly what is important to me. Financial security is. So I took a look at that need and asked myself whether a partner has to provide that. For me, the answer is no. My ex husband left me unexpectedly, so even having a partner who earns a certain amount is NOT a guarantee of financial security.
Then I considered what’s important to me that a partner provides. That’s different for everyone, but my BF is an equal partner who doesn’t expect me to do emotional labor for him. He’s an excellent emotional support. I can count on him if I need help. And much more.
I’m not trying to talk you into staying with your guy or not. One aspect of deciding whether this relationship is right for you is deciding whether you respect him. If you don’t (and it’s ok! You don’t even have to tell anyone else ever), you need to break up with him because it’s cruel to be with someone who you don’t respect. If you do respect him, I urge you to really think through what is important to you and how much you really like him. Maybe you aren’t as into him because of reasons other than the money. That’s also ok! Just be super honest with yourself and your true priorities.
Anon
This is a really nice post! Happy for you and your family
JB
“Figuring out exactly what is important to me. Financial security is. So I took a look at that need and asked myself whether a partner has to provide that. For me, the answer is no.”
– this all day long. I am responsible for my financial security. If there is a rich partner, then great, but I plan with the expectation that its on me
Cat
this sounds like it’s about way more than pure income concerns. You sound judgmental of his entire life. You should break up for that reason, not because you’d be taking him on vacations he couldn’t afford on just his own income.
anon a mouse
+1. It is also telling that you mention things like affording healthcare when presumably your job will come with healthcare? You are approaching things very much as his/mine, not about how you could work together and complement each other as you build a life.
Anon
Op here. I’m more concerned with healthcare in retirement. If his job still covers it, great. But I also don’t want to be tied to what’s in network and inexpensive. I have a lot of out of network health expenses as it is because I want to see the best doctors regardless. It’s expensive and I can take care of myself, but definitely not another person.
Anon
Good luck finding somebody when you need to know their retirement healthcare situation after a couple dates.
Bonnie Kate
How old are you? I was assuming from your post you were in your 30s or younger (maybe you said it somewhere)…I really doubt the system is going to look the same when you retire as it does right now. I’m 34 and I’m assuming it’s going to be very different and while we’re saving we’re not planning on specific things like networks because inevitably it’s going to change. Maybe I’m just more risk-tolerant, but I think it’s a little much to be overly concerned with healthcare in retirement unless your in your late 40s or older.
anon
Can ANY of us know what healthcare is going to look like during retirement? Unless you’re closing in on retirement age in, say, the next decade, it seems like a fool’s errand to even guess that.
Anon
“I really doubt the system is going to look the same when you retire as it does right now.”
Let’s hope it doesn’t, and your advice is spot-on. It absolutely boggles my mind that someone would be trying to plan their life and their future around not having to just use in-network healthcare providers 30 or 40 years from now. Like, what now? Really? For real, that’s the criteria someone is going to use for choosing a life partner, their spouse, their ride-or-die and maybe the father of their children? “I like you but there’s no way I’m going to get stuck just seeing the in-network doctor, pal! I deserve better than that!” LOL doesn’t begin to cover it.
But it tracks with some other stuff I’ve seen here over the years, where some people legitimately believe that there is an amount of money you can accumulate that will insulate you against every possible negative circumstance. News flash, y’all: Steve Jobs was rich AF and he still died of that neuroendocrine tumor, the same way almost everyone with those tumors dies, whether they are rich AF or on Medicaid. He paid beaucoup bucks to get that transplant and all it did was prolong the last months of his life, which were the worst and most painful ones! Money is a mitigator, not an insulator, unless you get up to the billionaire level. And even then, when your time is up, it’s up and there isn’t anything anyone can do about it. I’d rather be poor and on Medicaid in the hospital and have no regrets about how I lived and loved, than be rich enough to afford the fancy out-of-network doctor and private hospital and die full of regrets, wishing I had married the nice guy who treated me well, instead of snubbing him because he didn’t make enough money.
Anon
To Bonnie Kate, I’m mid 30’s and he’s late 30’s. I’ve seen very close family members have health issues over the years and it was incredibly difficult on me emotionally. The one saving grace was that they could see any doctor and cost wasn’t a concern. I couldn’t imagine having gone through that and the stress of medical bills. I also dated someone in my 20’s who was a decade older than me and had serious financial problems. Debt and borrowed money from me. Perhaps this sheds some light on why I’m so concerned.
Carrie
Are you familiar with Medicare? Essentially all of us are on Medicare after the age of 65-ish. To have healthcare in retirement linked with your prior job will soon be non-existent. Very rarely the norm.
Anon
Anon at 12:42, you’re not going to start saving and thinking about retirement in your 50’s. At least not if you want a decent lifestyle. You generally should start saving ASAP especially if you assume social security won’t offer much.
Anon
“Anon at 12:42, you’re not going to start saving and thinking about retirement in your 50’s. At least not if you want a decent lifestyle. You generally should start saving ASAP especially if you assume social security won’t offer much.”
LOL. Sweetheart, I’ve had IRAs and 401s since my early 20s. We have plenty put away. Your defensive and snotty replies to people who are pointing out the errors and prejudices in your thinking are not helping your case. Please break up with your nice-guy boyfriend, he deserves so much better.
Anon
Isn’t that exactly my point? You start saving as early as possible, ideally in your 20’s. You can’t save up hundreds of thousands of dollars starting in your 50’s.
Carrie
OP – I think you are too skewed by a personal experience. Do you know how Medicare works? You and your husband will both be eligible for it, most likely, for your retirement healthcare. It has the BIGGEST network of any health plan, and essentially ALL of the best hospitals take it. And don’t you have good health insurance now? Is a spouse eligible to it if you marry?
Your income doesn’t seem to be so high that you can ?afford to retire early before you are Medicare eligible unless you plan to be very frugal, but I don’t sense that is your plan. It is true that many Obamacare plans, which early retirees use until they are Medicare eligible, are not great insurance and may have more restricted networks and be very very expensive.
Anon
You need counseling!
Anon
But it’s okay to be judgmental when assessing a relationship. The more honest you are with yourself about what you personally value, the better you’ll be at picking your partner. You can respect and admire a lot of paths people take in life, but it doesn’t mean you have to marry it.
Cat
yeah I wasn’t saying the OP isn’t allowed to be judgmental! Just that this post was dripping with it and therefore she should let this guy free to find a more lifestyle-compatible partner.
Anon
Agreed, I just also think it would serve people better if they felt okay about being judgmental in who they choose to partner with. Would save a lot of heartache to choose for yourself and not the chorus.
Anonymous
He sounds like a great guy, but it doesn’t sound like you respect him. I don’t know if you can overcome that.
Anon
This. Regardless of the details, OP doesn’t respect him. He deserves better than that and OP will obviously be happier in the long run with someone else.
Anon
So you’re nervous that you have different financial goals, but it actually doesn’t matter if he can support himself. If you remained single for the rest of your life then you’re going to be supporting yourself in a way I assume is already sufficient to you. If you marry this guy, it’s still a cost savings . Maybe you get a bigger house or apartment, but presumably he’s already supporting himself in something that’s fine so if you move in together he’d still contribute and ultimately you’d contribute less, right? Also it might help to compare his low-paying to job to a fancier low-paying job, like working at a non-profit (where you probably wouldn’t even get a pension). Would that make a difference? Ultimately it’s fine to prefer someone with a college education, you do you. If he’s not floating your boat move on.
Anon
Not the OP, but I think it does matter. Supporting yourself isn’t enough – can they support themself in the lifestyle you want to live is the question. And it sounds like the answer here is “no,” and “no possibility of it.” I’d move on, there are plenty of people to partner with who will be a better match.
Anon
I guess, but when you live together you usually aren’t spending double on everything . My utility bills are nowhere near double the cost of the ones for my old place and my mortgage payment on a much nicer house isn’t double the cost of my old mortgage payment. I make 3-4x what my husband does but I’m still better off financially with combined incomes.
Anon
Op here. On that note, my apartment is much nicer than his. But we’re not talking fancy doorman apartment. I have a nice place with a roommate outside of our main city. My concern in that regard is if we ever moved in together, would I have to live in a not so nice apartment that he could afford or have him live in an apartment I like knowing that he can’t really afford half the rent? Or pay more than half to cover it?
Anon
Op, be concerned. If you divorced you’d still be paying for half that apartment because you raised his standard of living.
Anon
Let’s say you pay $2500 a month for ok apartment and he pays $1500 a month for his crappy one. What would $4000 a month get you – presumably something much nicer? It wouldn’t be an even split but it wouldn’t cost you more for a nicer place and presumably you’d actually end up saving when you look at other expenses like utilities, groceries, etc. Maybe those numbers aren’t right for where you’re living, but I think it helps to think of it that way.
How much does an equal split matter? If you want kids that affects finances quite a lot more, though.
Anon
+1 to Anon at 12:03. The cost savings of combining households are so significant that even the higher earner will generally end up with a nicer lifestyle at no added cost (or the same lifestyle at lower cost).
anon
This. I would highly suggest really considering what a partnership entails. It’s not always going to be 50/50 in every single area, finances included. Unless you have the exact same job, there’s always going to be a discrepancy If you don’t want to pay for a boyfriend’s apartment rent and be his “safety net,” (I wanted to barf typing that), there is a solution to that, and it’s living together once you’re married and legally bound. But that still doesn’t work if you’re going to hold your finances over him forever and blame him for not contributing enough. Just … do yourselves both a favor and dump the guy.
Anonymous
I married someone with just a B.A., no graduate degree, with some of the same trepidation. However, he stayed at a steady job much longer than most of my peers who flamed out of legal and finance careers without hitting the big bucks, and built a house flipping business on the side that he can keep going longer longer than my legal career. So he’s never been a burden and long term will have earned more than I ever expected. I would not rule this guy out based on a short term view.
Anon
Only a bachelors? FFS
anon
OMG, are you for real?!
anon
Nesting fail. That was supposed to go under 11:02’s comment.
Anon
And probably only from a state school, not an ivy.
anon
LOL what even is this comment.
Anon
This has to be satire… right?!
Anon
“Because of the pension and no higher education, his career isn’t likely to change but he does work in real estate on the side and I’m hoping he can ramp that up.”
I stopped reading right here.
You’re looking at this guy as a fixer-upper opportunity, and he’s not one. He’s an intelligent guy with a job he likes and a life plan that works for him. It’s not fair for you to insert yourself into this guy’s life and then proceed to tell him that his goals and the way he’s living is wrong. He’s gotten along just fine without you to this point; he does not need for you to be present in his life figuring out all the ways he’s not measuring up to your ideals and expectations. No offense, but you seem like the kind of girl who needs to be with another corporate ladder-climber, who will likely be selfish and not treat you very well, but will be “good on paper” and have the same kind of money-hungry orientations you do. And please be real with yourself (and with us): what you’re talking about in your post is not “comfort,” but affluence. You want to be affluent, and you don’t think this guy you’re dating can get you there unless he ramps up his real-estate business to your level of satisfaction. Which is a super-unfair expectation to put on someone, that they need to work harder or deviate from their chosen path to solely to make you happy. (P.S. this is different than expecting that a grown adult can get and keep a job, which is a completely fair baseline expectation.) There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be affluent. What’s unfair is expecting that another fully functioning adult, who may not have that same priority, needs to make that happen for you. If you want affluence, make that happen for yourself. Or, as I say above, marry another self-focused striver with money, come back here periodically to complain about how he’s selfish and neglectful and dumps the kids on you all the time, and then make sure to post when you need a referral for a divorce lawyer. But cut this guy you’re dating loose; he deserves better. If you want to pass along his contact info, I have several single female friends who’d love to get in touch with him; a guy like this is just what they’re looking for.
Anon
Yup. I think the real issue is not his income or his education or the lifestyle you want or any of that. It’s that you’re viewing this guy as an improvement project, and that’s a very toxic thing for a relationship.
Anon
Exactly right. Only other thing I will add is that kids really change the equation. A man who can pick them up every single day at 5 pm leaves you free to move up the corporate ladder. There are a lot of costs, emotional and financial, that go with marrying a corporate striver.
Anon
This is not your person. He deserves someone who isn’t so judgmental about who he and his family is.
Anon
I don’t really care how someone lives their life but when it has the potential to impact the way that I live my life, it’s different. I’m allowed and should be concerned about it. It would be foolish of me to go into a relationship without thinking of these concerns and differences.
ELS
No one is saying you can’t be. We’re telling you that this level of judgment and concern is reason to move on, based on how you’re talking about him. “He treats me well, but unless his job and income change significantly I don’t want to be with him, because those things matter to me.”
It’s OK that those things matter to you (and to a large extent, compatibility in thinking about money and planning matter to me too – I’m in mid-30s, dating someone with similar outlooks on money and planning, though he makes about double what I do, both high earners). I’m not judging you for being judgmental, or having concerns. But I agree that this guy isn’t your guy, because you seem to only want him if his circumstances change markedly, and they’re not going to.
Anon
“But I agree that this guy isn’t your guy, because you seem to only want him if his circumstances change markedly, and they’re not going to.”
Everybody has told OP this in a thousand different ways and she doesn’t seem to get it.
Anon
Then don’t. Break up. He can find someone who cares about him beyond what his wallet looks like and you can find someone rich.
Anon
Please let this lovely gentleman go so he can find a partner who respects him and loves him for who he actually is.
Anon
So, obviously it’s okay to make your own choices about who you get romantically involved with. Most people probably value Treats Me Well/Is a Good Person over Retirement Health Care Plans and I think that’s why you’re getting some push back, to see if that’s what you’re really after, because it’s outside of the norm. Life is long and unpredictable and what if the person you choose loses their job in an economic downturn or becomes incapacitated or turns out to be a total d1ck.
Anon
I’ve dated men with money before and they were the typical finance/consultant who didn’t treat me very well. That’s why I don’t want to end things with him but I’m still concerned about the financial aspect and our goals, etc.
Anon
So, let me get this straight.
You want a rich guy.
But you don’t like rich guys.
So you want a “low wage, low skill” guy.
Who you want to force to become rich. So that your lifestyle isn’t affected.
Yeah? Good luck with that.
Anon
Exactly this.
Anon
Boom! Fantastic synopsis.
Anon
I… can’t even.
Senior Attorney
This would be kind of hilarious if it weren’t so damn sad.
Anon
i don’t think you’re a snob. i personally probably would not date someone without a college degree. you are allowed to have your requirements. just like i want to be with someone from my religion.
Anon
OP, I’m not sure of your age or who you have dated before given that one of your main emphases is how well he treats you. This is very important.
I grew up lower middle class as the first person in my family to go to college and went to Harvard Law School. I’m not as worried about the income disparities in your case just by my experience – I am by far the main income earner with my partner, but I’m not a person who thinks everything has to be 50/50. He contributes more than enough financially, emotionally, in mutual chores, etc. in my opinion. So I am happy to pay more for housing, vacations and the like. It would not work if I said, “you owe x for this or neither of us is doing it.” But I don’t feel like his overall contributions are less just because he earns less, so that would never occur to me.
Personally, the lack of college would be more of a sticking point. I don’t say that as an intellectual snob, but I’ve lived my whole life with family who did not do college. It’s a different type of motivation, and creates its own strange divide, and I’m not sure you would be on the same page long term.
Anon
The point is I can’t really afford to go on the type of vacations I want and pay for both flights, hotels, etc. if I made $500k it would be different. I can’t afford to pay for both of us to do the things I want to do. He definitely does contribute emotionally though which is why I’d like to make it work.
anon
So please go find your rich guy and let this dude find someone else who isn’t going to look down on him/be disappointed that he doesn’t make enough money.
Anon
We kind of fell into a rhythm that works for us where I pay for the parts that I really want – usually nice hotels – we combine cc/ rewards points for flights (always coach!), and he pays for most of meals, etc. on the vacation itself. Just an idea of how it has worked for us. I definitely pay more for vacations, but he pays some too. And I took a nonBigLaw job and also do not make $500k/ year.
anon
You can’t make this work without treating him as an improvement project so stop trying. That’s so not okay. He is who he is today and you either accept that or you don’t. And you don’t. So break up and keep looking.
Different Things
I commend you for being honest with yourself and this crew. You are going to have to decide whether the money/nice things are more important to you than the emotional contributions and how he treats you. It sounds like you would like to have the life of someone who is very well compensated and that’s fine.
He’s not your guy.
Coach Laura
I haven’t read all the comments but something from the OP’s first statement “I’m hoping he can ramp that up.” Let me tell you – saying that about a new person is just wrong. If you had married young and he was still working at McDonald’s maybe you could say that but to a grown up man you’re not married to – no, just no. And it doesn’t work to expect someone to ramp up to your standards – that I know from experience.
If you are a high earner but expect that he will morph into one, you’ll be disappointed.
This statement here is key “I’d have to give up the lifestyle I’ve envisioned for my future. I worry that either I will have to support us to my lifestyle.” Fully 40% of households have women as the primary breadwinner. I’ve been ours for 30 years. Yes, you will be the support for “your” lifestyle and he will be an additional source of income but unlikely to be the primary source. It is a big commitment to be the primary earner and it has stress so don’t take the commitment if you’re not willing.
I think you should let him get someone who will appreciate him for who he is. You would do well to look for another high-earning partner who has equal or greater earning potential.
Anon
+1 And I expect that 40% to increase over time (more women in college, med school, corporate jobs).
Anon
You sound super f-ing judgmental and this guy deserves someone better than you. Also, $65K is not “low wage.” For a single person it is 500% of the federal poverty level. A rough calculation is $33 per hour. If you think that’s low wage, you really need to get some perspective. Get a grip.
anon
The entitlement is dripping from the first post on. This has very little to do with financial security and more to do with lifestyle wishes and dreams, which are two VERY DIFFERENT things.
Anon
How is that entitled? Wanting a certain lifestyle and taking steps to achieve that do not make me entitled.
anon
It’s entitled when you expect another person to do that for you. Please, just move on from this guy.
Anon
I think the issue is you somehow think your lifestyle will “decrease” with this guy versus becoming what you can afford to do together, with his added income. What if you don’t meet anyone who earns more and are single? Your own income would be your lifestyle.
Anon
I never said I’m looking for someone to do that for me. I’m not looking to be a kept woman who goes to lunch everyday. In fact, I would never quit my job and rely solely on a man because we know how that turns out.
anon
Then what, exactly, is the real problem? You will have your income, plus whatever he brings in. If that’s not enough, then it’s your expectations that are way out of whack.
Anon
Absolutely.
Anon
Then your lifestyle will not decrease, OP.
Anon
I married a man who made less than me and continued to make less than me and we worked it out. He is retired now and I am on the glide path to retirement and between the two of us I think we are set up for a decent if not extravagant retirement (mid 7 figures.)
My sister married a guy from a wealthy family who was also a high earner, for all the reasons you list. He also cheated on her constantly, gave her an STD, and then was a deadbeat dad after they divorced. It was all part of a pattern of entitlement.
Be careful what you wish for.
Anonymous
So are you saying choose between a nice man who treats you well and doesn’t make a ton of money or a cheater who will treat you poorly but makes a lot of money? Are we now just choosing between these two types of men? It sounds like that’s the general consensus of this post.
Anon
Not at all. But marrying a rich guy doesn’t solve all problems. This entire post gave me the creeps and made me think much less of many of you.
Anonymous
Guess I’m not the only one who is judgmental. Marrying someone because they are rich doesn’t solve every problem but marrying someone without the potential to be a high earner creates other problems.
Anonymous
You mention that you are worried you’d have to “give up the lifestyle I’ve envisioned for my future”.
Based on other comments in the conversations on the post, I’m guessing that you are not currently living this lifestyle, it’s more of an aspirational thing. Could maybe be part of the kind of ideas we have about our fantasy self.
My fantasy self buys bespoke clothes and travels to the Seychelles on first. In reality I’m very happy to shop at M&S and get some sun closer to home together with my frugal friends. My fantasy self does fancy dinner parties and enjoys Michelin star restaurants. In reality I’m happy to invite for potluck dinners and get carryout curry.
If I should put a wish list for a fantasy partner, kind, treats you right, family-oriented, stable job he enjoys, curiosity about the world and and relaxed would be on the list. Earning 500 000 is not on the list, not even for fantasy self.
You also worry about “retirement, affording decent healthcare, and living an overall stress-free life.” It seems to me your current life isn’t very stress-free, and that you’re always wanting something else, or at least have a fantasy about something else. That’s okay, of course, but maybe think about how much time you want to spend getting there vs. enjoying yourself at a less affluent place. You might even have so ingrained frugal reflexes by now that you can’t really relax even if you do get the lifestyle you have envisioned. Or maybe you’ll never be content unless you do get this lifestyle – only you can know that. But I think unless you know more about yourself and what you actually want and what’s a fantasy, you won’t able to enjoy this relationship as much as you could.
Anon
OP if you’re still reading, you should probably break up with this guy. I dated someone who treated me well and we had a lot of fun together, but the difference in our preferred lifestyle was just too big an issue. I definitely relate to your comment that you’ve worked too hard for too long to give up the lifestyle you want. Not everyone on this board has to agree with your financial goals, but your spouse sure does.
Being the breadwinner is a lot of pressure, and that alone might be breakup-worthy. But I encourage you to find out if he would want your preferred lifestyle even if you do make enough to afford it.
Do you want to live in a higher-end apartment in a fancy neighborhood but he feels that it’s a waste of money? If you eventually have kids, do you want to build your budget around college savings while he thinks it’s not a priority? Is he comfortable around your friends and family that come from a wealthier or more educated background? Maybe I’m projecting here but I wasted too much time before I discovered these differences.
It’s one (potentially big) thing if you resent having to fund the majority of your lifestyle. It’s a much larger issue if you have the funds to do so but he actively disagrees with your lifestyle choices.
Anon
What are you all wearing for reasonably fashionable gym-like shoes these days? Have the giant dad sneakers gone away yet? I want something current, but not ridiculous for 30 to 40-year-olds.
Anon
I see a lot of Vans, not the checkerboard kind but the kind with the little swoosh. And Stan Smiths. And AF1s.
NYCer
Veja or New Balance.
Anonymous
Veja, P448
Anon
well i just went to a preschool bday party and was one of the few not wearing golden goose sneakers. i cannot fathom spending that much money on a pair of sneakers. i have allbirds
Anon
Same. I may scuff up some Chuck Taylors (which I also see) and add some glitter and leopard.
anon
LOL. Might as well. I think Golden Goose’s are ugly as sin, though, so there’s that.
Cat
I think GG are the biggest case of Emperor Has No Clothes I’ve seen in quite awhile. I cannot fathom why they are still popular.
Anonymous
The brand name is telling.
anon.
i love love my nike react escape in black. they go with everything, but they are definitely sportier/ look more like running shoes than golden goose/ vans/ etc.
Double-Bingo
What would you wear for a Roaring 20s themed office holiday party? (Let’s assume covid concerns are addressed through vaxx, boosters and testing, or outright cancellation). Lunchtime party, historically gets raucous/boozy, catered in our small, normally jeans-casual office (but we often get dressier for these parties). Would you go full-on flapper dress (costumes are encouraged)? Or an art-deco inspired top? Basic dress plus on-theme accessories? Our parties
Anonymous
I’d wear black pants and a sparkly top with a headband.
Senior Attorney
If you decide to go full flapper dress, Amazon has a ton of cute ones super cheap. (If you’re in LA I have one you can borrow.)
Double-Bingo
Aw, thanks so much for the offer, but I’m on the opposite coast. Those Amazon ones are what I’m seeing and tempted by – I love the sparkle! Just worried it’s over the top for an office party.
Anonymous
I would go genderbending and wear a slightly oversize suit, suspenders, gelled hair or trilby, wingtips or brogues, and a violin case as your purse.
Anon
I’d do a flapper dress or at the very least a feather headband, a boa, and a rope of pearls.
Anonymous
I went to a Roaring 20s bar association annual dinner, precovid. I wore a black dress, rope of pearls, and a clouche hat. No one was wearing actual flapper dresses. There were a lot of pearl ropes and headbands.
A
Black silk or satin pants with lace top. Headband, long strings of pearls, maybe a long cigarette lighter. If you have curly hair then check out 20s hairdos.
Anon
Why is it always men who wear masks below the nose or under the chin? 99 percent of the time it’s men. Makes me so cranky and I would like to say something but of course never do.
Pompom
They are not nearly as used to having their bodies regulated as we are, it seems. /s
Anon
They go to prison more, so there’s that. Full-body 24/7 regulation by others when you don’t self-regulate. We self-regulate.
Anon
Ummmm. This is not as good an argument as you think it is.
Anon
I think that poster was agreeing with the OP.
Anon
I often see a hetero couple together and the woman is wearing a mask and the man is not. I’ve even seen a child wear a mask while the man is not. What is wrong with men!
Anonymous
Where I live, people think vaccination is a free pass to drop the mask. So you will frequently see parents and older children unmasked, accompanied by masked younger children.
Cat
I mean… that is actually the rule a lot of places. In Philly we still have a mask mandate for stores, and people in my neighborhood at least comply with it.
In the burbs most stores have a “masks are required if you’re not vaccinated” sign up. While you don’t get funny looks if masked, it’s definitely more like 50% of shoppers are masked.
Anon
I think that is the rule in much of the US so technically they’re following the rules. Here everyone still seems to wear a mask in grocery stores anyway, and parents usually wear them if their kids are.
Anon
I’m fully vaxxed with a booster and I wear my mask anytime I’m indoors in public. Not worth the risk.
Anonymous Grouch
I think maybe their faces are bigger, so it’s easier for a mask to slip down off the nose. Under the chin is just deliberately half-assing it, but I am willing to overlook mask-off-nose, especially if the person is just someone I see nearby, vs. someone I’m interacting with. OTOH, you will save yourself so much stress and grief if you learn not to react heatedly to everything you see that isn’t quite up to your standards.
Anonymous
People not wearing masks (and letting your nose hang out = not really wearing a mask) is not something “that isn’t quite up to your standards.” It’s a deliberate attempt to infect other people with COVID.
AIMS
I don’t think that being careless or even stupid is the same as a “deliberate attempt to infect other people.”
Cat
+1, that’s a bit ridiculous.
Anon
I disagree with the idea that you shouldn’t care, but I do think face size might be partially responsible for more noses hanging out. I see a lot of men wearing masks that are clearly too small. That’s not an excuse at this point in the pandemic, but I do think it’s part of the reason. You need to buy bigger masks if you have a bigger head, it’s not that hard!
Anonymous
Re. mask size, masks are made to fit men’s faces. Poor fit is much more of an issue for women, who have gaps at the sides, the nose, and/or the chin unless they make an effort to find the very few masks that come in multiple sizes. There is no such thing as a disposable mask that fits a female face, with the exception of the size small N95 from 3M that is simply awful to wear. Proper Cloth makes a size small reusable mask, and the Athleta masks are little smaller. Those are about the only ones that are actually going to cover a woman’s face properly.
Anon
I agree that this is true for “real” masks, but I don’t think it’s true for cloth masks, which are more likely to be targeted at women and kids. I suspect a lot of men are wearing masks bought by their wives and just don’t fit right. Again, not an excuse, but an explanation for some of them. I think men are used to being able to buy clothes that fit them right off the shelf, whereas women are used to having to try a million sizes of something before they find one that fits their individual body.
Anonymous
No, men are perfectly capable of buying masks that fit. Let’s assume they have some intelligence and agency here. They choose to let their noses hang out and it’s very typical male behavior.
AIMS
So I agree that choice factors in, but it’s isn’t super easy either. Mr. AIMS has a large head and I can first hand attest to the difficulty. We have literally ordered many many masks, including ones sized “large.” FWIW, I see plenty of women with badly fitting masks too.
Anon
+1 saw a thing online that men letting their noses hang out of masks is the new manspreading and I couldn’t agree more. This is a choice.
Anon
Yeah, most men are capable of wearing pants without their dicks hanging out so they ought to be able to figure out the mask thing.
Poor men. Maybe Anon from above can try to get some teenagers fired for her husband’s mask being too difficult to wear properly.
Woof
This so makes me mad. It is always men who have the mask hanging down. It’s like a “f@ck you” to the mask mandates. I will put on the mask to keep my job, but I won’t really wear it. I have started speaking up–it doesn’t usually result in action in my presence, but maybe after I leave they make adjustments. If I am in a good mood I’ll say “you are so handsome–you would look more handsome with that mask on your face!’ Doesn’t work
pugsnbourbon
I agree with the sentiment but the idea of telling any of my male coworkers that they’re handsome makes me full-body cringe.
Anon
Yeah this is a hard no. Why do what we don’t want done to us?
Anonymous
I see it a lot with older women actually.
Anon
Yes, this too. I’ve spent a lot of time in doctors’ offices and see a lot of older people of both genders with badly fitting masks. Going back to the issue of fit, I suspect that a lot of these people are just less adept at finding things online that fit correctly.
Anonymous
I think it’s because old people just don’t care. Where masks aren’t mandatory, I see plenty of middle-aged and younger people wearing them, but virtually all the old people are unmasked. And the only people I talk to who complain about having to wear a mask are old.
Anon
Yeah my ride back from a medical procedure fell through a while back, so I ended up ordering a ride instead. Of course the driver was “technically” wearing a mask to comply with requirements. Of course it was under his nose. I opened the window and held my tongue (I’ve had too many bad experiences with actual licensed taxi drivers who are men to risk crossing a random ride share app driver). Men suck.
No Face
It is genderless where I live, if they are wearing a mask at all.
Anon
I think from now on, “heels” for me will be something with a stout 1″ heel. If I spring for the Varas I’ve always wanted (now that I’ve seen a woman rocking burgundy patent ones with skinny jeans in a way that made them seem 2021-relevant), what color is versatile without being too out there and just another pair of sad black shoes. Black patent? Black croc effect leather? Prior-mentioned burgundy patent?
My color profile is generally very Moira Rose for the office, which I’m back to. But I’m also a black tights addict in the winter, so maybe just black is what I should get.
anne-on
I’d go for the fun burgundy ones. I’ve also seen the blush pink ones a bunch in the spring/summer and they are very cute. Block heeled pumps are ‘in’ this year (and mine get beat up every winter) so I’d get a pair or two of plain black ones at Ann Taylor/Talbots/Jcrew.
ALT
I have a pair of baby blue ones in my “favorites” on Etsy and also almost pulled the trigger on some black ones in the Real Real sale last week. Kind of opposite ends of the spectrum, but I think both would be very versatile—I’d wear the baby blue ones with navy/white/gray/jeans and the black with everything else.
Anon
Link please? On the hunt for something like you’re describing…
Cat
Vara is the classic Ferragamo pump.
Anon
Ah, never mind. I’m not young enough to pull those off ironically.
Anon
I’m missing something now, I fear. How would you wear these ironically and non-ironically / just as shoes? My fashion skills have atrophied in the past two years.
Anon
In my opinion, that style is quintessential old lady. So you’ve either got to be an actual old lady or in your 20s to pull it off as fashion. As classic workwear, it’s fine but not fashion.
Anon
50-ish person here. Am I old enough to wear un-ironically? Or is that for retirees? I am not that much of a little old lady, style-wise, but my feet definitely are only into sensible shoes these days.
Anon
Burgundy, or gray if they have it.
anon
I would try the Varas on first. Since you are looking at Varas prices, personally find the similar height block heels from Gianvito Rossi way more comfortable – leather is less stiff, as well as the Chloe scalloped block heels.
Anon
I don’t like any color of shoe other than black with black tights, and prefer black suede specifically, so I’d just get black. They will not be another pair of sad black shoes because they are beautiful!!
And then maybe you can stalk an interesting color on sale if you end up really liking the black pair, because it is always the colors that go on sale.
A
Burgundy Varas. Or the aqua ones. They had red, teal, silver. Can you tell I own too many ?
Vicky Austin
What’s everyone thinking of for paper planners this next year?
Cb
I have a Leuchtturm monthly where I write big events on the calendar pages. I like writing monthly to do lists, and having my notes (meeting notes, writing projects, brain dumps) all together in one big book. What I’m still looking for is a weekly planner pad with the possibility to create categories (ie. home, work, errands) or a daily planner pad with top 3 for the day etc. I like a paper to do list.
Anonymous
DIY calendar/bullet journal in a Moleskine notebook.
Crafty
I’m also a DIYer when it comes to calendars/list journals/etc and this year I’m going with a no frills graphpaper filled version of this from Mr. Bezos: Minimalism Art, Premium Hard Cover Notebook Journal, Classic 5″ x 8.3″, 122 Numbered Pages
Just got it in the mail and it’s lovely. Lays flat, thick paper with minimal bleed using heavy sharpie markers, and I like the pocket in back. 122 pages so I’m hoping to get a few years out of it.
A+ Fed
Circa. Back to my first love after experimenting with a hard bound planner this year.
Anon
I faithfully use the Moleskin daily planner every year. I like it because there’s a whole page for each day. Very good for writing lists.
Equestrian Attorney
I use the Moleskine weekly planner with the note page for each week. Works well, good size to toss into my purse and carry around.
Dana
Has anyone used the Leuchtturm Ex Libris Reading Journal? I kept a journal of what I read for the first time this year and I definitely want to keep doing it. Right now its just a random, blank notebook, but turns out there are specific journals for this!
Abby
BlueSky planner forever and ever
Anon
I’m doing Plum Paper planner. I like that you can customize the sections, so I’ve got a couple different sections for work, life, kids, and a big section for my todo list.
Anon
I use the StartPlanner dated weekly. I love it.
Anonymous
I love the Bloom Vision planner. Have been using it for 4 years now.
Betsy
I think I’m going back to a Get To Work Book. My only hesitation is that it’s definitely a big/more bulky planner and I wish I had something a little more portable. But the functionality works so well for me, so I might just supplement with a small notebook that’s easier to carry around.
Anon
Used to use Gallery Leather’s weekly planner. But I have too many moving parts now and have to use my phone calendar to be able to keep track of it all.
anon in brooklyn
I’ve been using an Appointed year task planner for the past few years. Weekly schedule on the left, and I like the different sections on the right. Also, they’re beautiful.
Anon
Leuchturm dot grid bullet journal. This year’s will be blush pink. I get a new color every year.
I don’t like pre-formatted planners. I make my own format as I go. I loosely follow bullet journal guidelines but I don’t do the whole Instagram thing. I don’t think I should be a slave to my planner and making sure it’s super pretty. I think my planner should be a tool for me. Mine is messy when I’m busy and that’s just a reflection of reality.
312
For the second year in a row, I’m using a Living in Yellow planner, but I’m thinking of going back to Emily ley next year.
Coach Laura
I have the Mountain Daily Planner Pro available on amzon or at Staples/office depot. It is undated but has daily pages with time slots on one side of the page, a to-do checklist on the other. I use the to-do area like a bullet journal. Across the top of each page it has a place for Gratitudes and Anticipations which I love, along with a place to list the top five tasks/goals for the day. There is a notes section and a vision section. I love it. I don’t always use the hourly list on the side of each page but take notes during conversations so I can refer back – which I do a lot. It also has monthly calendar pages and reflection/recap weekly pages in the front for long term planning. I like that it is undated as I don’t use pages for weekends, holidays or vacations.
Anon
Ink+Volt is my favorite
anon
Best place/easiest way to invest $40k right now? Thanks!
Anon
What’s the timeframe? Treasury I-bonds are at 7% but your money will be tied up for over a year.
anon
It can sit a long time. What is the best way to purchase?
Anon
There’s a limit on I-bonds. $10k per person per year I think, so that will only use half the money even if you have a spouse.
Anon
Although I guess there’s a new year coming very soon so you wouldn’t have to wait long to invest the other half.
Anonymous
7% “right now” is the big red flag there – treasury bonds can go negative. most recent percentages for ibonds have been under 1%. i looked into this for my efund and decided not to do it.
if it can sit for a long time do index funds — 1000% better. if you want to be fancier in the volatile market you could break it into chunks to invest, like $5k a day.
Anon
Re: index funds. The stock market lost 57.7% of its value from 2007 to 2009 and did not recover until 2013. When events like that happen to your retirement funds and you are decades away from retirement, you will recover and benefit from continuous investing during the low points.
But a recession is when you’re likely to need your emergency funds, so you do not invest that in the stock market or other investments that can lose value. You need more boring, safe investments for that. That is why people keep this fund in low yield but safe FDIC guaranteed accounts.
Again, I’m always alarmed at the truly terrible financial advice that gets tossed around on this board. Please talk to someone who knows something about finance and not an anonymous group of mostly bored attorneys, as this is Finance 101 stuff.
Anon
TreasuryDirect is the best way to purchase I-bonds. I have been buying them through an automatic investment plan for almost 20 years. The website is pretty bare-bones and in some ways, not very intuitive, but once your information is in, you can go buy bonds any time you like (and also redeem them).
I feel that I-bonds are a really underrated savings option for non-market-invested money that can sit for awhile. Even in prior years, the interest on I-bonds was much better than savings account interest rates.
Anon
Do I-bonds really make more sense than index funds?
Anon
Treasury bonds don’t have downside risk if to hold them to maturity. Index funds will move with the market. There are different reasons to hold different types of investments.
Anon
Open an account with any reputable online brokerage like Fidelity or Vanguard, transfer the money and invest in a broad index fund (ITOT, VTSAX, etc)
Anonymous
TQQQ.
Anonymous
Did your cat walk across your keyboard?
Anon
You don’t know how to look up ticker symbols?
Anonymous
That made me giggle, thank you. But I was being serious: I’ve made a lot of money off TQQQ this year and I’m an investment novice.
Anon
The exact wrong time to buy something is when someone else has already made a lot of money off of it, generally speaking. Like, I’ve experienced spectacular gains on ACI since I bought it about a year ago (97%), but I don’t necessarily recommend anyone buy it now because it’s at a relative high at the moment. In fact, I sold half to lock in some of my gains. But 11:39, I’m glad you’ve done so well!
Anonymous
Regarding yesterday’s conversation about white elephant. . . gift swaps. I just saw this list in the NYT.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/gifts/white-elephant-ideas/
Cute stuff!
Bonnie Kate
I went to a white elephant gift swap on Monday with a $10 limit and there was a lot of chocolates. The most “oohed” items were the sausage and cheese gifts. The most stolen item was the decorative snowman and nutcracker that I opened and couldn’t figure out how it worked (the beard was covering up the functional part) so named it the “butt cracker”. The butt cracker was stolen about 5 times.
pugsnbourbon
Those are great! I’d be happy to get a bunch of those.
I bought something like this for a dirty santa once and it was a hit: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B014EOHTMY/?coliid=IR0JWS354L7JI&colid=V8TGCLQHT8ZH&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Anon
Oh this is a great list!
My family does a gag gift white elephant with a lower limit than discussed yesterday ($20ish). People find great things and so the whole game is absolutely hilarious. Most gifts are easily used/consumed and at worst case scenario traded or donated. But, even if I can’t keep my gift the $20 is worth the laughs.
FWIW – I hate hate hate kitsch (especially novelty socks, t shirts, and mugs) and even I walk away with something I like more often than not.
Anon
“There’s no time like the present to drink in the bathroom.”
Truth. I’m ordering that stick-on wineglass holder – for myself.
Waffles
Lol, I just ordered one for my husband who LOVES wine and baths.
Anonymous
The other day a poster said they were irritated by lots of little things and many of you said that’s how you know you’re depressed. Would you mind sharing how you addressed that depression? Do I need to talk to my PCP, obgyn or therapist?
Anon
I talked to my PCP. For me it was hard to have the conversation, but she’d seen it all before and was very comforting and reassuring that we would work on treating it. I got very lucky in that the first prescription I tried worked very quickly and has continued to work. We went over the questionnaire, which I had already done more than once on my own while I was convincing myself to make the appointment. I had this fear that I wouldn’t be taken seriously or that I was faking it somehow because I was still functioning in my day-to-day. Of course that was just the depression talking. It’s totally worth talking to a doctor about.
No Problem
PCP. Tell her you think you’ve been experiencing symptoms of depression and that you’d like her to do a depression screening questionnaire (it’s like 6 or 8 yes/no questions). This should be bread and butter territory for your PCP. You can discuss medication and ask her to prescribe something. Not everyone responds to the first medication they try, but many do. You’ll probably have lots of follow up appointments with your PCP to determine whether the medication is working or you need to change the dose or try a different (or additional) medication. Sounds like you’re already in therapy, so definitely tell your therapist that you have been experiencing symptoms of depression and talk about it. If you do start medication, let her know that you started taking it. Studies have shown that medication combined with therapy offers the best treatment for depression. Good luck! The hardest part about treating depression is often just getting started (cuz, you know, you’re depressed. Doing anything is hard).
Curious
I talked to my PCP, but my midwives are also great about mental health.
pugsnbourbon
I’ve had my gyn put in my prescription after I changed insurance and was still looking for a new PCP. Any port in a storm.
Flats Only
I spoke to my PCP, who did the screening questionnaire others have mentioned, and gave me a prescription for a low dose of prozac. I know not everyone has such luck, but I felt better within just a few days, so don’t get too wrapped up in the idea that it’ll be a long process to find something that helps.
Op
Thanks all!
Senior Attorney
And… I just forwarded an org-wide email to a friend with a (mercifully only slightly) snarky comment, and of course it ended up as a Reply All.
How’s your day going?
Cb
Not well…my husband is getting cold feet on our Christmas trip and I asked him if the discussion could wait until we got home rather than over Whatsapp, but this has just left me more time to get angry / plot against him. I desperately need to spend Christmas with my parents, out of our house, where sunlight breaches cloud cover.
Anonymous
Go without him.
Anon
+1
Anon
Oh no. I hope you get to make the trip.
Anon
We’re on vacation but my preschooler woke up at 4:30 am (same timezone, so jetlag isn’t an excuse) and the rental house where we’re staying is undergoing massive construction that has involved workers pounding on the outside of the house for 8 hours straight for the last 3 days, preventing any of us from napping, and now I have a massive headache from the noise and lack of sleep. So….not great Bob.
pugsnbourbon
Oh gosh – I hope you got a discount on the rental!
No Face
What?! I would file a complaint through Air bnb or VRBO or however you booked it to get your money back.
Anon
Unfortunately we didn’t use AirBNB or VRBO. We rented this same house last year and it was great so we just rented directly from the owner this year to save the third party fees. I’m regretting that now :/
Anon
I would still complain and ask them to stop the construction while you’re renting, or refund your money. Doesn’t sound like a vacation at all!
pugsnbourbon
+1 – speak to the owner directly. If they’re smart they’ll value your repeat business enough to make it right.
Anon
Would you ask point blank for the money? I did text the owner letting her know how disruptive it’s been, that my kid can’t nap because they’re hammering the wall next to her bedroom and that at one point they boxed our car in and it took them a long time to move it so we were late for a dinner reservation. She just texted back that it will be over after tomorrow (which is day 4 of construction) and she appreciated our patience. She did give me a heads up that there might be some construction a couple days before we got here, but she said it would be on the sidewalk not the house and didn’t suggest it would be this disruptive.
Anon
Yes, tell her it’s more disruptive than that and ask for an adjustment.
anon
Well, my team is talking about rolling back an in-person event for January because our covid situation is rapidly declining, so not great. I was so hoping we were past this, and it seems that we are not. I’m so freaking tired of these conversations, I can’t even tell you.
No Face
So, so, so tired of the pandemic.
anon
I can accept that we’ll never be able to eliminate covid. What’s hard for me to wrap my brain around is that it’s STILL spreading like wildfire. I’ve done everything I can to protect myself and my family, but I really don’t know how we’re going to move forward as a society if it’s still this bad.
Anonymous
Bingo.
No Face
It is because millions of people are unwilling to do a single thing to reduce spread. My state is maybe 50% vaccinated, heavily weighted towards the cities and affluent suburbs. That means that the risk of huge spikes and full ICUs have not gone away at all.
hopefully anonymous
My husband’s lab caught COVID on Friday. All of them, and their spouses too. They were double-vaxxed and had masks on indoors as per campus rules. The first person who infected the others is now in the hospital despite all of these precautions. The only reason I don’t have it is he worked from home on Friday since his home office is nicer than his campus office.
It should be a win, but it feels awful.
Anon
Wow a youngish (I’m assuming) double vaxxed person in the hospital is scary – do they have underlying conditions? Also pretty scary that the masks didn’t work at all. We’ve had multiple direct exposures at daycare, but no in-school transmission thanks to masks.
anon
Sh!t, I’m sorry. :(
Anon
And I’m in the opposite situation – cases in my state have never been higher than they are now, hospitals are full, I have kids who aren’t eligible for the vaccine, but everyone here is acting like the pandemic is over and I’m being told I have to go back into the office (with no mask or vaccine requirement) in January even though I can do my job just fine from home.
Anonymous
Worst day ever. I have been crying most of the morning for non-work reasons and now I am going into a Zoom meeting with a lawyer who is a total a-hole, has no idea what he is talking about, and needs to shut his d@mn mouth because we are not actually trying to qualify an expert witness. Anyone else who is going to be in this meeting and happens to read here, hello.
No Face
This is why I have started to keep my snark verbal!
Anon
Oh no, SA! Please update us on the kitties- I need some cute kitten content.
I gave a presentation over zoom yesterday for my industry conference. I am not great at presenting over zoom and I felt like an idiot just speaking into a video of myself so I felt like it was awkward and went badly. This morning I received the feedback ratings and they were all good so I guess it wasn’t as bad as it felt.
Senior Attorney
Congrats on the good feedback!
The kitties continue to be hilarious. I just ordered Christmas cards featuring a really cute photo of them on our bed: Felix right up close to the camera, and Oscar way in the background peeking over the foot of the bed. I posted that same photo on social media a week or two ago and people loved it, but apparently the Odd Couple was mad at my posting their photo without permission, because they haven’t been up on the bed since! But Oscar is still enjoying his Morning Scratchies and Felix is still enjoying hanging out with us in the living room at a Sensible Distance.
anon
MORE KITTY STORIES, PLZ.
Times like this, I wish we could post photos here!
Anonymous
You just made my day!
Anon
They are appropriately named with Felix being the one who has instituted Sensible Distancing!
Senior Attorney
Absolutely! Also Felix is the tuxedo kitty and Oscar is a blowsy-looking long-haired tabby! :)
Anon
Today I have two separate 4-hour trainings at the same time. I guess I’m supposed to own two sets of headphones and put one in each ear?
Anon
I’m licensed in three states on different CLE cycles and am trying to cram in an insane amount of CLE by December 31 for one cycle end … on demand, fortunately. One good thing about COVID at least!
the CLE scam
Literally the only good thing to happen to me in 2020 was NJ abandoning their arcane in-person CLE rule and the Order allowing remote. I was behind 2 cycles of compliance including my New Attorney credits and got entirely caught up on the firm dime :D
Anon
I was looking last night- my reporting cycle is next year and I’m already finished and at the max number of credits I can carry over. Teaching CLEs is the way to go, so many credits!