This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Summer is here and I want to look cool and feel cool. These linen and wool blend pants from Akris do both. The mint color is unexpected, but would look totally professional with a dark blazer and work-appropriate blouse. If you’re really feeling the summer vibe, add a white blazer and some fun jewelry.
The pants are $1,290 at Saks Fifth Avenue and come in sizes 2-16.
Looking for something similar? These light blue BCBG pants are $228 (XXS-XL), and these light blue Ann Taylor pants come in regular, petite and tall sizes. In terms of plus sizes, these light blue Talbots pants come up to size 22.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Anon
Wow, these pants are beautiful. Love the color and the fit, but do not think I could justify the price. Any cheaper dupes?
Vicky Austin
Ann Taylor had some nice suiting in a color similar to this in the spring. I’d check there or see if you can find any of that on Poshmark.
Anon
I got similar ones in black from MMLF, I was a total hater of that line until I found their pants. Still not cheap but not four figures.
Anon
Ohh I have started checking out MMLF too. What style of pant did you get that is similar?
Anon
It’s the Horton pant in washable wool
Anonymous
Isn’t this the same basic shape as the Logan model from Banana R?
Anonymous
Yes! BR Logan dupe was my initial thought too. I still hold onto a gray pair from ~2012–tropical wool and fully lined. Always crisp and polished.
Nora
I have some slightly involved things that I’d like to tell my boyfriend, somewhat related to career stuff. It’s something I know he’s sensitive/chip on the shoulder about, but its at the point where I think he needs to know what I think. If he breaks it off with me because of this, or if we’re just not compatible, that’s alright, but we need to have this convo.
My thought process is since its something specific and I want to make sure my whole thought process gets out in the right order I would like to write a short note. I can handwrite it and give it in person or text him right before we meet or while we’re together, but I’d just like it written down. Is this okay or is it like passive aggressive or something?
Anon
Do you mean about his career or yours? I too am better and writing things out but use them as notes to help in a discussion.
Minnie Beebe
I would write it down if that helps you to organize your thoughts, but would definitely not deliver him a note. That just seems weirdly formal for a personal relationship.
anon
Yep, agree with this. I also think, if you’re comfortable, providing a bit more detail on what the issue is and what the chip on his shoulder is, could help us help you – I’m sure someone on the board has dealt with something similar at some point.
Nora
Maybe I should write it out here just to get my own thoughts straight. I haven’t figured out exactly how to say this yet.
We’ve been dating for about 6 months, we get along great, he’s met my sister and friends, I’ve met his friends. He’s very kind, considerate, we have the same interests, etc etc
He’s been working a sort of dead end job that he hates (all his words) for years. It pays okay (not great) and he does some volunteer work outside of it that he finds fulfilling, so he just deals with it. He talks about wanting to go to a particular professional grad school, but he would have to take prereqs before applying and its a completely different career that I’m not sure he’s really familiar with.
I know this sounds harsh, I would obviously not say any of this to him like this. I would say this to my sister / friends if I thought they needed a kick in the butt.
The “chip on the shoulder” is that he talks enviously about his friends who have better jobs/career/etc but has like imposter syndrome about being able to have that sort of career himself. He said that in school his teachers all said he was smart but didn’t apply himself – good grades but acted out in class – and I can still see that. My friends have generally been shocked at how he makes jokes about how he knows his career is going nowhere basically.
So that’s one thing. The part where it affects me is that if we stay together long term I would want him to take things a bit more seriously. He says he wants a house, family etc but hasn’t made moves to make that possible financially, and doesn’t have a plan too.
As I said, if all this is too much and he wants to break up, fine. I just want to tell him these things in case before I just break up with him.
Anne-on
Oof. I think you need to break up. Senior Attorney has commented many times (and I agree) that a partner is not an improvement project. If you DO have this talk with him and he agrees to make changes…then what? Are you now his accountability coach? Do you revisit it every 3 months to keep motivating him?
To my 3rd party perspective it sounds a lot like unmedicated ADHD, but again, HE needs to want to change and make the changes. You can’t nag, threaten, or ultimatum him into it.
Anon
Oh noooooooooo. No no no. You need to either accept him as he is and that this is probably not going to change (and if if does it will be bc he wants to and on his own schedule) or break-up now. You are not his career coach.
Anonymous
So. You want to write a note telling him his job isn’t good enough for you?
No. Break up with him because you don’t respect his work and expect him to change to suit you and that means he is not the one.
Anonymous
I don’t know how old you are but like Senior Attorney always says, people are not improvement projects. And here it sounds like you want to make him improve himself but it’s most likely going to be a relationship killer. I was on the end of receiving self-help books and “discussions” like this from my partner while I floundered a bit in my mid-20s, and guess what, it made me even more insecure and upset about how I wasn’t doing good enough for anybody. Of course the relationship didn’t work out, but after I got therapy and gained back my self-esteem, my career is doing quite well for someone in her mid-30s.
Anonymous
Also you’ve posted about this before and it is fine to want a guy who makes as much money as you or more! But it’s not this guy.
anon
This makes sense. I think you need to say that, though I’d reframe from a “career talk” to a “future talk” – mentally and when talking to him. Because ultimately, it’s not really about careers, it’s about what kind of future you’d have together.
I think you need to say it honestly, but kindly – that he always talks about wanting to do these things, and you want them for him, and as you get more serious, you want to make sure you’re on the same page about what your future looks like in terms of aligning your careers with your goals. I think phrasing it in terms of aligning future plans makes it easier for him to stomach.
And, just a warning, at least in my experience – guys that talk about these things but have never made any moves to do them, don’t tend to change. So just be prepared for a bad reaction or a good reaction but little actual movement toward these goals.
Anon
Seems like you have spent a lot of time identifying and analyzing your boyfriends issues – do you really want to be with him? Like what could he say that would make this work for you?
But no, don’t send him a detailed note. Just tell him the part that matters -that your goals are to have a family and a house and aren’t clear if he has the same goals and if so, how that would work financially and ask what he thinks? And then decide if his answer is good enough and if so if he follows through on it.
Monday
I agree with 10:37. I think it’s worth saying these things, once, as a discussion about your future as a couple and not as general commentary on his career and choices. I agree that he probably isn’t going to change and may not take it well, but you put in this good faith effort–again, once. If he doesn’t *proactively* identify concrete steps he wants to take, including deadlines, and then complete them, that’s your answer. Don’t bother talking about it again at that point.
Cat
Oh no no no. Just break up. This kind of career motivation has to come from within – while a partner can be a good influence and supportive, what you’re describing is way more than that.
Anon
Break up with him. This was my parents. My mom was a VP while my dad was working in the service industry. He moved into the corporate world once they had me, but my dad was never ambitious in the same way my mom was and she was always frustrated by it. my dad just never really cared about status or having nice things. I love them both so much, but they both would have been much happier married to different people.
Bonnie Kate
I think it sounds like you want to say things to him that will make him break it off with you instead of just breaking up with him, which does sound passive aggressive. If you don’t want to be with him as he is, you should just break it off, not say a bunch of things about his life that will make him feel bad and want to break up with you.
I get why you might think it’s kinder to give him a chance to change these things, but in general I have found that very rarely do these conversations work with anyone. I’ve had them with my sister before, they don’t work. Some people are planners and motivated actively always have a plan to get from A to Z (this is me), some people seem like they float from A to Z and it’s slower and seems like a much longer and harder journey to the planners, and for the planners to watch it is agonizing to watch the floaters. However – it’s their life. You don’t have to build a life with a floater (I couldn’t – and have watched marriages break up over this), but I don’t think you change a floater into a planner.
Nora
@Anne-on: I agree about the unmedicated ADHD or something. When I talked to my therapist about this he suggested that my bf see a therapist at least. The accountability coach point is a good one, I absolutely don’t want one. I just didn’t want to kick him to the curb without at least telling him why. If his response is “actually I will get my act together but didnt see any reason to before this” I’m open to it.
@anon at 10:37: Future talk makes sense. He’s very accommodating and has made small changes but this is something else, I agree that it has to come from inside.
The thing is, it does seem like he wants the career/house/travel/family. But is not actually working towards that. As I think about it more, it does seem like textbook unmedicated ADHD. Or imposter syndrome. So there could be an underlying issue here. But not sure its up to me to fix that.
anon
The fact that supposedly wants things that he hasn’t made an effort towards is a HUGE HUG HUGE red flag. In my view it doesn’t matter if the thing he wants is career or something totally different, this is a huge character and life skills problem. I would 100% break up with him.
Nora
@Bonnie Kate: I’ve had conversations like this with friends! But I agree – either theyre interested and I’m happy to fix resumes or cover letters or whatever, or theyre not and its just a nonstarter. And with friends I just leave it there.
@Monday: I think I’ll say it. He’s a lot of fun, but life is also serious. I think I was thinking that some guys grow up more when they have a reason to, but not this much. And internally I don’t predict that he’ll respond super enthusiastically to this. For example, I know his parents have already told him a version of this and it apparently hasn’t taken.
Amy
I’m still not seeing in this post what exactly you need to “tell” him. That he’s not ambitious enough for you? That you want him to make more money and take his career more seriously? What message is it that you’re looking to convey that contains information he doesn’t already know?
Nora
The thing is, at heart I’m a floater too! I just want some things (trips to Europe, to not be bored at work) more than I want to float and realize that y’know actions have consequences.
Senior Attorney
Oh my goodness. He is telling you who he is, loud and clear, and he is not going to change just because you tell him you don’t like that about him.
If you want to have one conversation, on the one in a million chance it will spur him to action, go for it. But make sure you have a deadline beyond which you will cut your losses and break up.
Anon
My fiance was like this until his mid-30s, when he got it together and got a career track job that he enjoys (and pays enough for him to live on). I met him after this change. I don’t think anyone or anything could have pushed him until he was ready to do that.
I would not wait around to see if he changes — either you’re happy with him just as he is, or you’re not.
Anon
OK this is not what I expected to read and seems like a much more fundamental issue. I had a relationship like this in my early 20s and did break up with the boyfriend. The boyfriend did later on go get a terminal degree and a better job, but still has a very different approach to work, career, vocation, and lifestyle than I do. The comments you describe illustrate that you and your boyfriend also have very different approaches to work and lifestyle – these are huge things! Our chosen work *and our attitude toward it and its place in our life* is such a defining aspect of our experience. This speaks to fundamental incompatibilities and if you’re ambivalent enough to write ‘if all this is too much and he wants to break up, fine. I just want to tell him these things in case before I just break up with him’ you should just break up with him and not do this whole conversation trying to push him to be someone he is not.
Anonymous
I agree with Amy. You say “this sounds harsh” but if your post you haven’t actually yet said anything harsh at all; it’s hard for me to intuit what you’re thinking you’re saying to him. Is there something you’re thinking but not putting into words? If so (for yourself) I’d recommend filling in this sentence: Here is the blunt truth I’d say to him if I didn’t have to worry about his feelings or the state of our relationship: _____.
Anon
I don’t think this is the dude for you. You want to be with someone more ambitious and with a larger salary. That’s okay, but that isn’t this guy. As a side note, career stuff can be very hard, and it’s not always something someone can change through sheer willpower and hard work. You seem to view his situation as a moral failing. My spouse has a very “cool on paper” job with a decent salary. It’s not a great fit for him for a couple of reasons, but he’s not super motivated to make a move. There are a lot of reasons for this. It can be frustrating at times, but he’s my person through and through, and I don’t feel like i’m missing out by not being with someone more ambitious who makes more money. I don’t think you’re ever going to be able to say the same thing.
Anon
Oh girl, echoing the chorus of no no no. This isn’t your person. Everything from you need notes to talk to him (no no no, it shouldn’t be that hard) to the real issue, you aren’t compatible. Don’t throw good money after bad. Break up. I’m also a big fan of therapy, went to it for years, and the thing they NEVER say and should is break up. I wasted way too much of my life trying to make things work, and spoiler alert p, they don’t. Get out and give yourself the gift of the rest of your life.
anon8
Agree. You could send him a text saying the next time you want to meet, you want to discuss some career stuff. And then use the notes for yourself to make sure you say everything that you want.
Nora
Isn’t this a scary text to receive? I would be freaked out at least if I got this text and 0 context.
Vicky Austin
I get it (my husband has a lot of anxiety around this too), but that shouldn’t stop you from saying what you need to say about how the relationship will (or won’t) continue.
anon8
When I first read you post, I thought you were talking about your career. With the additional context you provided, it sounds like this would be a serious conversation and it would help to give him a heads up.
Anonymous
Wow no just dump him. If you know he isn’t going to like what you have to say but you think you need to discuss it, have the lady balls to have a discussion or move on. A note isn’t passive aggressive it’s just cowardly and wrong. If you really can’t bring yourself to have a face to face discussion this is not a good relationship just end it.
Anonymous
Do not do a note. That instantly turns what your doing into a lecture instead of a 2-way adult conversation. I’m also not getting where this is your business 6 months in. I would be telling a friend to run if a guy were to ever do this to her. If you think he has limited earning potential and this will be a deal breaker, you should step away now. Whether he pursues another direction is his choice. And even then life can throw curves. It’s ok to say drive is a quality that’s important in a partner but not ok to try to “fix” someone into having it—especially with a bunch of notecards like he’s a school project.
Nora
I’m not trying to fix him. If he says he is not at all interested in figuring out his career, that’s fine, let’s break up. How am I forcing himself to do anything?
Anonymous
I have a similar issue with my husband – he’s been a huge job hopper in the last 3 years because he can’t get a long with people. I would very, VERY much like him to go to therapy to work on this and am having increasingly serious conversations about it. If you are committed to having a conversation with your boyfriend (instead of ending the relationship) I strongly recommend writing down your thoughts and but having an in person discussion. If you need notes, fine. He may not like it but you can (truthfully) say that you wanted to make sure you said everything you were thinking of. I would emphasize to him that you love him (if true) and that you’re thinking of your future together. It’s not romantic to say that love isn’t enough, but, really, it isn’t. This also won’t be just one conversation, it is the first in a series. Be aware he may say he will do something and then not do it. Frankly, given my experience, I would break up with your boyfriend. It’s absolutely no fun to feel like you have a husband but not a partner in life. Your role should be to support HIS efforts, not to force him to make them.
Anonymous
For reference, I floundered quite a bit in my 20’s. Bought a home on my own at 31. That was the trigger for me–and it wasn’t that I didn’t want to be responsible before. I guess I just wasn’t certain how to do it. I too talked a lot about going to grad school (or even to law school). It was because I wasn’t sure I could succeed in the corporate world, and people that I knew who had advanced degrees seemed to be so much more successful in their 20s vs other friends I had. I was just working through things. The home purchase put me onto a path where I had what I considered to be a win (buying a home on my own) and from there, things slowly started to fall into place. I am quite successful professionally now–I just kept going, figuring things out, working hard, but there was never a clear path.
Regardless, it sounds like you don’t want your boyfriend to work through life this way, or you are worried that he will mooch off of you. You would probably be better suited for someone who has a clearer path forward. But, a note??!! Get over yourself. Talk to the guy, with respect, about where he is, and where you are, and where both of you want to be.
Anonymous
Your role here is to ask questions about his plan for the future, not to substitute your judgment for his. He’s complained about his career and it’s totally fair that you want to know his game plan. It’s a big compatibility issue, no one wants to be with someone who endlessly complains about something they do nothing to fix. After 6 months it’s a judgment call whether you already know enough about the situation or if you want to give him the chance to explain himself.
What you should not do is dictate to him that he must change. If he is the kind of person to endlessly complain about his job and never want a solution then he is also the kind of person who will endlessly complain about his health, his family and friends, the AC that isn’t quite working right but he doesn’t fix it and then the whole system gives out and needs replacing which will cost $10k he doesn’t have so you go 3 summers with no AC and he still does nothing. Ahem. This kind of thing can be a personality trait not a one off, and if it’s bothering you after 6 months then you should say thank you next before you end up hating him.
Anonymous
Oh Nora no. He is not the guy for you. You need to break up with him. There is no version of this where you tell him to get his act together and he does but also doesn’t resent you and you have a healthy relationship. You need to find someone who has what you’re looking for or stay with him but let this go. There is nothing wrong with seeking financial or career success in a partner. But you can’t change people, even when it’s the the persons best interest.
Anon
I get you after seeing your explanation. It kind of drives me nuts when people complain about the same things over and over that are within their power to change.
I’d just ask him “so what is the plan?” next time he starts in on the same old story. I would have asked him that months ago, though, and consistently.
Anon
While this sounds good on paper, I see little chance that asking that results in both an actual plan and one that he acts on.
Anon
And then you break it off. What I am personally not interested in is listening to someone complain about the same issue over and over and make zero steps to change it. It’s a tough love thing.
Anon
Right. I’m saying he has already shown her that that is the type of person he is, and if that’s a dealbreaker for her (would be for me at this stage!) she should break up with him now. No questioning about what his plan is is going to change that IMHO, it’s just going to prolong the break up. Because he will likely say he is going to do something that he then never does and she wastes another several months at least to give him the chance to do this thing he said he would do and have more agony over the decision before concluding what she could probably conclude now.
Anon
How old is this person and what are the other circumstances in his life? If this guy is mid thirties, great family support, etc then maybe he’s just not the right person for you. But I will say for a person with imposter syndrome, more criticism isn’t going to help. He may literally have no idea how to make those changes happen. When I was in my twenties and having a fractured family, some recent trauma, and seemed to many of my friends like I was flighty, I was really just hurting and had no idea how these other people seemed to have their act together other than a blind luck and nepotism. That doesn’t mean that you need to solve these things for him or even continue to date him, but if you really want to have this conversation I’d maybe approach more from a place of kindness and trying to learn what his roadblocks are.
Nora
Early 30s, solid family support. good college degree. A sibling is a lawyer. So no glaring reason like that.
I get that criticism isn’t going to help. He doesn’t have the types of roadblocks you are describing though. If I was as mean as this comment board seems to think I am I would have said what I wrote above to him and dropped him weeks ago – I’m obviously not. I’m just trying to get it out in short form here, while at work.
Some other commenter wrote some not-nice things about me psycho-analyzing him, but in general I think he would benefit from like a therapist or a career coach. Someone objective and third party – I think its too fraught for him to talk to like his parents about.
Anon
I’m really tired of families of mass sho oters saying, “We didn’t see any warning signs.” Really?? Your college-aged kid who doesn’t have a job, sits in his room all day playing video games, and has no friends is a perfectly well-adjusted human? And then you look online or look in their notebooks, and they’d been writing about this stuff for months.
So angry at politics and the Supreme Court and everything else right now. WTF is wrong with this country that we won’t stop this??
Anonymous
There aren’t really any resources for a family to call and say “hey my kid plays a lot on his computer and doesn’t have a job how do I know if he’s lazy or a killer”. Like. Parents of a 22 year old aren’t monitoring on line activity.
Monday
Of course I am furious too. But “unemployed, no friends, just plays video games in his room all day” is a pretty common profile for young men. There was an interview with a psychiatrist on The Daily about exactly this issue–we can’t force everyone of this description into mental health treatment, and even if we could, it’s always for a limited time. This is why intervening at the gun-purchasing point is so critical.
anon
Yeah, this. I want to stop these shootings too, but we can’t just throw everyone (a LOT of people) who fit this profile into mental health treatment.
I’d take it further and point out that the gun was obtained legally, in Illinois, which has some of the strictest gun laws, and without a constitutional amendment, the 2nd amendment is here to stay (and even with a less conservative supreme court, decisions like DC vs. Heller happened – it’s a constitution problem and a culture problem).
That’s all to say, I’m angry too, but the solutions are hard and complicated, and I don’t have any good answers.
AIMS
Right. We aren’t unique in having angry young men. We are unique in the number of deaths that these young men manage to cause. And yes now they are happening in Europe too but on a much smaller scale (so far).
Aunt Jamesina
Yup. The real issue is that this type of young man exists the world over, but in most developed countries, he wouldn’t have such easy access to guns.
Anon
I mean, plenty of people play video games and don’t murder other people.
Anon
My husband loves playing video games and is a wonderful person and father who became a tenured professor in his early 30s. Plenty of 22-year-olds lack drive or direction.
I’m opinionated about this because there ARE warning signs and they aren’t video games. I grew up with an abusive, literally psychotic, older sibling and my parents did nothing because doing something would show that they aren’t perfect parents with a perfect family. The nutjob literally tried to break my neck – stood on my back and yanked at my neck hoping to snap my vertebrae, and as an adult not a 3-year-old – and the alleged adults were all “oh you have to work it out amongst yourselves.”
The parents know. They just don’t care.
Quail
I don’t think those alone are red flags. But did his parents or anyone really never talk with him about the news? He was at conservative political rallies – not to saying that alone is a red flag but it sure seems like he had gone down a path that started with that.
I’m sure he expressed his views and plans in some form other than online prior to the shooting. My fear is that the parents agreed with his views and didn’t care.
As a parent of a white boy, radicalization via the Internet is a huge fear of mine, and I’m starting the conversation now and keeping it going.
Quail
To be clear, I think almost all guns should be banned, assault rifles at a minimum, with stringent controls. The prevention of radicalization is also necessary (as the convergence of 2A rights and white supremacy has already occurred.)
Anonymous
I don’t think anyone believes their child would be capable of something like this. I think we should focus less on demonizing the parents and more on providing resources to parents on the warning signs that their kids are being radicalized.
Curious
I’m just sad. I grew up not too far away from there and this got through my screen of numbness. Though it makes me mad that a friend was like “if this can happen in an upper middle class suburb then where is safe?” because holy classical and racism, Batman.
Anon
So the British have had a term for a long time, NEET – Not in Education, Employment or Training, meaning young people who don’t have jobs and they’re not in school. And it was identified as a problem back in the 1990s.
As a parent, if I had a kid who wasn’t in school and also was not working, but sat in their room on their computer all day, I would see that as a red flag for a mental-health problem and insist on counseling or a consultation with a doctor about an antidepressant. Or I would insist they could not live in my house and not do SOMEthing productive with themselves; I think we all know by now that too much time online, away from real humans can be bad for people’s mental health.
As the mom of an older kid, let me just say that I am seeing IRL situations where people are loving their children to the point of toxic enablement, and are so fearful of rocking the boat in their household that they aren’t confronting very obvious problem behavior. I think some parents are so afraid of kids self-harming or getting into drugs that they start walking on eggshells around their children, and not saying things that need to be said. I was told very clearly by my dad, my last year in high school, that after I graduated I had three choices: 1. I could get a job and live with them and pay rent; 2. I could go to college (their strong preference), or 3. I could join the military. I had to do one of those three things; living at home with no job and not going to school was not an option. But a lot of parents don’t seem to be having the tough conversations with their kids that will motivate them to do something with their lives.
Anon
+10000 I see this as well.
Anonymous
My brother is a NEET, and we don’t really know what to do with him or about it. He didn’t finish college. He started a video game related business, made a bunch of money, and that petered out. He has never had a real job working for anyone, and he is early 30s. His schedule is totally messed up, up all night, sleeps all day, has physical pain for no reason and depression. He applied for disability and was denied.
He lives with my mom, and all he does is play video games all day. He is finally in therapy after cajoling him for 3 years. I even did 3 way calls with him to schedule appointments because he had too much anxiety talking to someone.
My mom is retired in her late 60s. He is honestly mean to her. She asks him for help with very basic things like taking out the trash or watering the yard, and it causes huge fights saying she is so controlling.
My mom has threatened to kick him out. He has nowhere to go and says he will just harm himself. Our father and grandparents are gone, we have no other close family, and he basically has no friends except for his Internet buddies.
My family is very liberal, including my brother. He hasn’t indicated any interest in weapons, but I do worry about him. What can I do?
I’ve invited him to do things with me and my husband, and my husband has reached out individually too. He won’t even join for a beer let alone attend any kind of event, sporting event, art, music. I’ve tried everything. All he wants to do is live online. I swear it’s an addiction.
I think there are a lot of people like this, just out there existing, and I wish I knew what to do.
Anon
This is a situation in which your mother can go to therapy. If someone’s family member is an alcoholic, the family often goes to Al-Anon to get a toolkit to help the person struggling with disease. Your mom can benefit a lot from going to a counselor and discussing appropriate physical, financial, and emotional boundaries for her to set with your brother.
Anon
Probably not what you want to hear, but – YOU cannot do anything about this; your mom is the one who needs to take action here. The threats to self-harm are working for your brother, as a manipulation tactic. He threatens to self-harm; she backs off pressuring him to put his life together. If he is at serious risk of self-harm, he needs to be in therapy. I am sure this is not news to you, but your mom and your brother are in a codependent/enabling dynamic and it will continue until she decides to stop it. The first step is therapy for her, not your brother.
I am saying this because at one point I had a cousin like this and the entire family went through a lot of agita about my cousin, and the burdens he was placing on my aunt by refusing to get a job or go to school. At one point, he ran up credit-card debt and she had to take a second job to pay it off. She finally went to therapy, on her own, and the therapist helped my aunt set boundaries and finally give my cousin an ultimatum: get a job, or she was going to sell the house and move to a one-bedroom condo where he was not welcome to stay. He cursed at her, he threatened to harm himself, he “ran away from home” (as much as one can do that at 28 years old) and slept on the streets for a few nights. She was terrified but held firm. It ended up being a wake-up call for him and he went and got a job at a foodservice warehouse and has been there over 5 years now. Has his own apartment, etc. I firmly believe there is always an answer in these situations but it requires what they used to call “tough love” and for the person who’s paying the bills to set some ironclad parameters around their continued support of the person. Much easier said than done. But maybe not as difficult as letting your brother live the way he’s living forever.
P.S. – you’re right that the online stuff is an addiction. If your brother was addicted to alcohol or drugs, I would recommend strongly that your mom go to Al-Anon, even if your brother was not ready to seek help. This is a different type of addiction but your mom still needs help to break the codependency cycle. I wish you and your mom luck with this situation; this is really tough.
Trish
OMG. You must help your mother get him out of the home. I would even consider selling the home and evicting him. My brother is mentally ill and my life got so much better when I finally accepted that I am not the Lord and Savior.
Trish
I am not sure what being liberal has to do with any of this. He is abusing your mother.
Anonymous
I live in Deerfield less than a mile away from the HP shooting and spent yesterday sheltering in place with helicopters overhead. I am FURIOUS at the uncle who has the audacity to be giving interviews today saying there were no signs. Shooter has years of social media glorifying mass shootings and gun culture. Both dad and son are straight up MAGA nuts and everyone here knows it. His mom not only didn’t aid the police but was screaming at them while they were trying to track him down. (Local NBC news stumbled across her yelling at the tactical folks and played it briefly on air.)
Anon
I just got back from a long trip in Europe with a friend and I’m experiencing serious post-vacation blues. I loved exploring new places with my friend and never feeling lonely. Now I’m back to living alone and eight hours of zoom a day at a job that’s fine but not my passion. I can’t think of anything else I can do that would pay me this well, so I stay put. But my passion is making art, playing music , reading books, and seeing the world, none of which is going to provide me with healthcare and benefits, let alone a six-figure salary.
Still, it’s rough to go from actually living life —doing stuff, seeing new things, meeting new people—to living in my tiny apartment staring at myself and my coworkers on a screen with little human interaction. I found myself thinking on the trip, “that’s no way to live. No wonder I’ve been depressed.”
I also was able to (somewhat) shut out the devastating US news cycle for a few weeks, or at least experience it on a time delay. I can’t underestimate how much this helped my mental health.
Now that I’m back, I can’t escape it. I’ve tried everything—no alerts, no notifications, but friends still text upsetting breaking news updates as they happen and use our text threads to process the horror. I get that this is how they cope, but it makes everything worse for me. I never know when the next awful update will arrive so I’m constantly on edge. I can’t stand the steady drip of texts of horror all day. At least I’d like to read and digest the news on my own time, once a day (or less!), long form, and on my own schedule. But that feels impossible.
I don’t even know what I’m asking. Just really struggling with things feeling kind of dystopian and not knowing how to cope.
Anonymous
Art music and books can all be a regular part of your life. You can get up in the morning and take a book and a cup of coffee to the park pre work. You can buy season tickets to the symphony. You can take art lessons. You can invest some of your vacation energy into real life! And you can and should mute any group chat. You can mute your texts all day if you’d like! I find carving out space for vacation me (al fresco dining, long walks) requires effort but is so worthwhile.
anon
I think you need to separate the issues here. One thing I’m reading through this post is that you crave in-person human interaction. I know you mentioned you likely can’t convert your hobbies to jobs that pay as well (and I don’t disagree – those fields tend to not pay well), but have you thought about trying to go back in to the office a few times a week? For me that made a huge difference in my mental health – I couldn’t go into a twitter rabbit hole and spiral about current events – I had to interact with other people.
Anonymous
Yeah 8 hours of zoom sucks so I do lots of evening things with people!
anon
+1 to human interaction being the key issue here. People can read the room a lot better on the constant drip drip of terrible things when you are in person. I’d also add that if going into the office isn’t an option, look for third spaces. There was an article in the Atlantic a couple months ago that talked about third spaces. Third spaces are essentially somewhere other than work or home that people interact with each other – think coffee shops, pubs, etc. You can be a tourist in your home city and seek out other places that you get human interaction.
Anon100
another +1 to real human interaction, or at least seeing people not over a screen. coffeeshops, public libraries, bookstores, fitness events or classes, art classes, etc are all good places to start that are not your office.
Aunt Jamesina
Yeah, I was remote for about six months and I thought I (mostly) liked it, but once I went back in, I realized what a psychological lift it was every day to see and speak to people in person and have a routine that took me outside the house.
Vicky Austin
I’m there too. My sister’s wedding was a couple weeks ago and it was a dream, but every minute was packed with real people interaction, and then I got home and had maybe two days of work that were very slow, and then it was a holiday weekend full of more good life. I suspect this week is going to be tough that way.
I strongly recommend muting the friend chats if they’re driving you crazy. I do this even with my very best friends when I need to. And you are 100% within your rights to say, “Please stop texting me about the state of the world during the workday; I can’t deal with a constant distraction that is also depressing. I’m happy to call you after the workday and we can hash it out over a glass of something.”
Anon
+1 to muting group chats. I have my best friends gc muted because all they do is talk about COVID numbers. I love them but it’s a lot.
Anonymous
I think you need to look for a job where you can be in an office, ideally in a downtown location. My passion is theater and when I was working in New York City, it was so easy to slip out for a show any night. It made my job so much more fun when I knew i could get out to see a show.
With respect to news, maybe you can silence the group chats during the day and then pick them up at a designated time in the evening. I often think that the world was better when we read the newspaper once in the morning and then stopped thinking about it.
Finally – can you find a way to build anticipation into your life? I always get bummed after vacation and it helps to plan the next adventure or show or meet up or party or museum date.
Hang in there and good luck.
anon8
Are you still able to pursue your hobbies (art, music) outside of work? Can you take art or music classes? Go see live music? Maybe that would provide some human interaction that you don’t get from work. For reading, can you join a book club?
If you are a remote worker maybe you could travel to a new city and work from there. If you job allows it, that is. I follow Taylor Wynn on YouTube and she packed up all her stuff and is traveling around the world. Obviously that works for someone who does YouTube full time, but maybe it’s something you could do on a smaller scale?
Anon
I’m in Spain right now and honestly don’t know how I’m going back. Life is just so much better here.
Anonymous
Hugs. This is one reason im considering a career change and really wish I had the option of an in person office again. I went from staring at a screen for part of my day to 8+hours a day and, while it’s really great for 99% of people to work remotely, it’s wrecked my mental health.
Anon
I disagree that complete remote work is great for 99% of people. I know many people who have struggled with depression because of the lack of human interactions, and I also know other people who have really stagnated in their career as a result or remote work.
I’m glad it’s an option for those who like it, but it doesn’t work for many people
Anonymous
I get that. I do think that, particularly on this board, there was a strong backlash against those that wanted to work from an office, so maybe that skewed my perspective. It could also be that the effects of wfh maybe took more time for some people to feel, perhaps? I certainly feel like I’m in the extreme minority in disliking the wfh.
(I have kids and local family and a busy social life, so it’s not lack of interpersonal interaction altogether, it’s that these 8-10 hours a day are still a huge chunk of my life.)
Anonymous
*raises hand*
I cannot stand WFH. Nopety nope. Have grown to seriously dislike Zoom et al.
I think that for some people, including groups previously excluded from some jobs, WFH has been good, but it’s not a major shift.
Anon
You can still live life, visit friends, and pursue hobbies even while working a fulltime job! If you’re not getting human interaction that’s something you need to work on.
Bonnie Kate
ugh that sounds really hard! I agree with all the comments that it sounds like you need real human interaction. A couple of ideas – my advice would be to pick one thing today and force yourself to do it.
-go to the library and spend all the time in the art book aisle every Tuesday evening
-go to the bookstore, buy an art book, spend a lot of time in coffee shop going through it ever Thursday evening
-join an art club
-join a book club
As for the text threads, +100 to muting, or if it’s one friend in particular, let them know that it’s too much for you to process all the texts. One thing that has helped me feel better about stepping back from consuming all the news all the time is realizing that humans have not evolved to process the news of all of the world. We were made for small communities and village life, and so the constant trying to process the news of all of the world events and pain of everyone feels like too much because it is too much. In village life, it would take weeks, months, years for bad news from distant places to travel to us – and now its instantaneous. it’s okay to step back and let yourself process it slower, and have a stronger focus on your immediate community.
Ribena
I sympathise.
Something I’ve started doing recently is, on a Saturday, sitting and writing in a local coffee shop and then going for a nice quiet swim. It feels really restorative and like I’m part of the world/ where the people are, without being draining the way I find ‘peopleing’ can be.
Anon
Can you go into an office? Even if your job is fully remote, how about a co-working space? I find WFH extremely lonely and it exacerbates the feeling because I’m not leaving the house. I’d also consider signing up for classes in your interest areas (in my city, ceramics is hot) or starting a book club (doesn’t have to be huge, just a couple of people can be fun). Basically design your life to look like the one you want and leave the house!
Anonymous
Can you pursue an art related hobby IRL? I joined a chorus (we sing with masks), and it is often the highlight of my week. Are there book clubs, art events, museum special events that are of interest? Think like a tourist in your city!
Madrid
Escapist fun for the day? Planning a 4-night stay in Madrid. Normally I would immediately to go Airbnb for this because of a very strong preference for (1) having a little kitchen, (2) having a large window that can really open for fresh air and – bonus – balcony, and (3) thanks to extremely thorough diligence using Street View and other clues, determining exactly which side of a building & type of view you’ll have.
Debating going back to the hotel life due to Airbnb neighborhood disruption… but struggling to figure out how to search hotels effectively. “Suite” sometimes means there’s a kitchen-tt- and sometimes not, etc. And of course hotels are famous for sticking people in whatever room… you can pay more for a “city view” or whatever but you still might be in the worst one of those.
So, does anyone either have tips on detail-oriented hotel searching, OR a rec for a Madrid hotel that I’d love? Budget up to $300ish a night, though could go a bit higher if it’s perfect.
Anonymous
It’s 4 nights give up on the kitchen and look for a 4 star hotel with a balcony and call it a day.
Madrid
Thanks but no, I have traveled enough to know what makes me happy or not. A hotel, however pretty, that limits my ability to be a bit self sufficient isn’t as fun or relaxing to me.
SA, I have no clue where to start with an agent… how did you find a good one?
Anonymous
Ok! Seems like a lot of excuses to me but do whatever!
Madrid
? Excuses for what? Looking for a way to replicate what I like about Airbnb without using it. Is there something wrong with that?
Senior Attorney
I use Fatima Reep at First Ticket Travel: https://www.firsttickettravel.com/
She’s in California but I’ve only ever communicated by phone and email so I imagine it doesn’t matter where you are. Her email is freep@firsttickettravel.com
Senior Attorney
I gave my travel agent’s info but it’s in mod so check back
Shanananana
No Specific Madrid suggestions, but I recommend looking for boutique locally owned hotels. I’ve found them to be a pretty good split the difference in terms of hotel and airbnb. I use booking pretty regularly to be able to search on locally owned and sustainable focused travel, but it can also be good for filtering on things like kitchens.
Worried
In terms of hotels with specific requirements, be really careful with the fine print, and how the hotel may switch rooms— sometimes reasonably, but often to make more more money from more recent bookings. When I book a specific type of room or room in a hotel, I actually print the image and specifications I booked. This has helped me numerous times, when the hotel I booked online does a bait and switch (which happens often, as I used to travel quite a bit) and gives us a room that is in no way like what we booked. I once booked a room specifically because it had a small kitchen, and then was told they were all full. I showed the booking info on my phone, and then on paper where the full image was printed on the day with the deposit info and such. Eventually, they ‘found’ a room that ‘just’ became available. Another time, I booked a hotel centrally located as my husband was recovering from an injury, and wanted to be close by to rest. They told us we could not have a specific room because of repairs and damage caused by a small fire and they would shuttle us to another nearby partner hotel. We explained our situation, and the room we booked on an accessible floor suddenly became available and there was no sign of smoke or fire damage anywhere. Turns out I later read online that they were doing this to a ton of customers because this location cost more and they wanted to charge more to new bookings (we booked months in advance). This happens quite often and I’ve spoken to friends who travel even more and the have experienced this too.
Senior Attorney
I use a travel agent for things like this. They generally charge a fee these days but it’s worth it to have somebody else do the legwork. And I haven’t been disappointed yet.
Anon
Not OP, but do you have a travel agent to recommend for Italy and how much do they charge for this kind of thing?
Senior Attorney
See above for travel agent contact info (currently in mod). I paid her maybe $400 total for hotels and (business class) airfare plus train fares and various day tours for my last trip, and felt like that was a good deal.
Senior Attorney
Also for private tours and general info, my friend Claire lives in Florence and is starting a tour company and is a great resource: https://www.claireintheworld.net/about
Senior Attorney
I’m doing a week with her in Tuscany in September and have traveled with her before so highly recommend.
Thistle
I’m not sure what sort of hotel you are looking for, but in general the nicer places won’t have kitchens. In Spain (and generally in Europe), kitchens tend to be in lower rent sort of places. Don’t know if it’s different in North America, but aparthotels have always been a bit more cheap and cheerful.
Ribena
Agree both that an ‘aparthotel’ is the search term you’re looking for and also that they’re not so common in Europe. Ironically the other extreme would be a private room in a hostel; most/all of them have cooking facilities available to people staying there. I never did the hostel dorm room thing but private rooms in a hostel can be lovely.
Madrid
Thanks!
I guess I should have been clearer that by ‘kitchen’ I am ok if there is a mini-fridge, a few basic utensils & plates, coffee pot, and microwave – I’m not looking to whip up a big meal. But knowing ‘aparthotel’ as a search term is super helpful!
SA, I think your agent’s name is never popping out of m-d!
Thistle
Even an aparthotel would only have the basics you list. Generally in Europe if you want a proper kitchen you need to rent an apartment.
AIMS
Thanks for all the underwear recommendations, ladies! Ordered a bunch from all the sales this weekend based on your suggestions and can’t wait to throw away all the old ones once they arrive.
Piper Dreamer
It’s ironic that I just obtained my citizenship 3 months ago and am now looking to escape the country (right after the July 4 celebration as well). I spent last night reading news on the Highland Park shooting and this morning searching for jobs in the UK. My husband and I are both lawyers – obviously not the most transferable skillset. Part of me wants to sell everything and buy a pub somewhere in the UK. Part of me wants to go to business school. To add to the complexity, I am up for partnership this year so seems silly to throw everything away now…
Anonymous
Right there with you trying to explore how I could transfer my attorney skill-set to another country!
Anon
It’s so sad here in the US. :( Last week when u was thinking about 7/4 plans, I thought, “we’ll, there will definitely be a mass shooting somewhere on the holiday.” The shock factor is gone but the feeling of dread isn’t. Recently, I was with family on a trip to DC, and there was a mass shooting (no casualties, thankfully) near the zoo an hour or two after we left there. It feels inevitable and inescapable. I’m looking into pursuing dual Italian citizenship to have an out for myself and my children if things continue to spiral in a dystopian manner. I keep thinking that an Italian family could likely hesitate to allow their high-school age student to join an exchange trip to the USA based in the news cycle.
Thistle whistle
I’d take some time and discuss through with knowledge of your industry (advisor, friend, mentor) before making any big life change like leaving the country or giving up everything and starting again. It sounds like you could be a bit overwhelmed or burnt out.
Whilst starting again always sounds tempting, financially it can be problematical. Sometimes a better option can be utilising your skills in a new area (either physical or metaphorical). Could you transfer to an office in a safer geographical area? Could you use your lawyer skills in a different industry that is less stressful? Could you use your seniority in work to get some extra accomodations that would make you happier? Sometimes a small change is all you need.
Ps I know it was jprobably just a randomly picked exampke but the UK pub thing would be a nightmare. Not only is the economy tanking, but there was an article at the weekend which listed how many local pubs were shutting or in danger of shutting.
Ribena
I’d say it’s a hugely transferable skill set in terms of soft skills. If you have any specific areas you practice in most often you could pretty easily find a home in a business strategy team or similar. I think because most people here don’t do masters degrees (and law is an undergrad degree here) we are very used to people doing things that don’t ‘match’ their training. (In banking in the Uk)
Anon
Stay and fix it. That’s the only way to make it better.
Anon
For people in the DC area – if you were single, mid-30s, still hoping to meet someone, but want a house and a yard, and have a $500k budget, where would you buy property?
anon a mouse
Are you set on a house or would a townhouse/condo with green space all around work? If the latter, look in Fairlington/Shirlington area. You probably are in close-in PG county for a single family home – someplace like Hyattsville or Greenbelt. If a duplex is okay, you could look in Jefferson Manor or possibly Warwick Village.
Anon
Warwick Village is out of the price range but Parkfairfax (which is in the City of Alexandria, across 395 form Shirlington) would be a good fit.
Anon
I was single in my mid-30s when I bought a condo in ParkFairfax. I miss living there – definitely one of the favorite chapters of my life :) Absolutely perfect for meeting people, getting into the city, etc. I took a bus from the end of my cul-de-sac to the yellow line at the Pentagon for an easy commute. I made Copperwood Tavern at Shirlington my default for first dates – the servers got to know me and would watch my signals if things didn’t go well – and I was close-but-not-too-close to home if it didn’t work out. Dog park nearby for meeting people.
I did meet someone online and we got married. He had a SFH in PG county that I, with much gnashing of teeth, moved to when we got married because he said my 900 sq ft condo wasn’t big enough for both of us. His place was near National Harbor, and even still, I hated it and couldn’t wait to leave. 1) Food deserts are real. The trek to a grocery store was not fun. 2) Friends won’t come visit you because crossing the Woodrow Wilson is, ha, a bridge too far. 3) Depending on where you are, there’s either no metro or no safe metro. A driving commute on 295 wasn’t fun, though it might be better now that the construction is done. 4) I didn’t enjoy reading about shootings a couple blocks away. Your crime tolerance may vary.
anon
So honestly, and I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the areas that have single-family homes at that price tend not to be conducive to meeting other singles. You might not care – that’s totally fine! I’d just prepare yourself to schlep into the city for dates if you go the SF home route.
If you’re willing to go townhouse or condo with private entrance, I’d look at Old Town – there are some condos with ground floor private entrances and nice outdoor areas, but we’re talking like 600 sqft of space for that amount of $$.
Anonymous
+1
-formerly single person who lived in (and loved) Fairlington, met spouse iwhile living in DC
Anonymous
Seconding this. I’m seeing many teardown SFHs for $700k+, even in areas of DC that wouldn’t be particularly conducive to being a single 30-something.
Anonymous
Similar question with a budget that’s more like 700-800k – would I feel out of place as a single woman in Vienna or West Falls Church? I’d likely consider a TH not a SFH. I’m not sure if I’m still hoping to meet anyone but I’m Arab, and I feel like a lot of the Arab population is in Va. rather than in the city. But I also don’t want to be somewhere and be thought of as the only weirdo on the block without children; I’d at least like to be someplace with DINKs.
Anon
Someone recently asked for more posts about relationship problems, so here you go. I dated someone for six months and it was great but we broke up because I’m pretty sure I want kids and he’s pretty sure he doesn’t. We didn’t talk for six months but became friends after that and have been best friends for the last three years. We were both single during the pandemic so I think we gravitated towards each other because we were lonely, we get along really well, and it was a scary time. He’s told me loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He’s supportive, patient, thoughtful, funny, etc. He knows the kid thing is why I’m not willing to date him again. He also now says there’s a “more than 50%” chance he’d want kids. I know he’s not manipulating me, he doesn’t want to hurt me, and he doesn’t want to hold me back from dating to find someone who does want kids if that’s what I want. I’m 36 and have been on the apps for years, trying to meet people in person, etc. and it’s all been fruitless and demoralizing. I feel like I’m at a split in the road. One path is to go all in and date him for real and see where it goes. Going down this path feels like I have to be willing to accept that he might not end up wanting kids so I wouldn’t have kids. The other path is to firmly say I’m not pursuing anything with him and keep dating to find a partner that I fit as well with but who also wants kids. Do I give up the certainty of having a life with something I’m happy with (path one) to try to find someone who makes me happy and also wants kids (path two)? Are there other paths I’m missing? Maybe I could be okay without kids (who really knows that before you have them)? I just feel so sad about the situation, the fact that this part of my life has not gone the way I hoped, and left behind by all my friends. I don’t want to stay stuck in this spot forever so I need to do something. Thoughts? Advice?
Monday
There is the path of pursuing parenthood without a partner involved. I cannot speak to this at all, but I know some others in the community can. You could consider dating and having a child separate projects, if having a child is a priority and you don’t want to risk missing your window.
Someone will probably mention egg-freezing, but I’m just not convinced that it’s reliable. If I were spending that kind of money I would want a guarantee that I’d be able to have a child when I wanted to.
AIMS
Why can’t he make this decision too? I think saying he’s 50/50 still is a bit unfair. Or maybe just insufficient? I once broke up with someone because they didn’t want to commit to the same things I wanted (kids and a dog; he gave a whole story about how you need a lot of space for a dog and we live in NYC and who knows what will happen, etc., etc.). After – when I saw him again, ex BF said “of course, I would want a kid with you!” Too little, too late and I’m glad we didn’t end up together because I think I wouldn’t have been happy thinking the kid was my responsibility since I pushed for it, and we def wouldn’t have had more than one, but he was very clear once he lost me that he would compromise to get me back. He did get the tiniest dog too (not for me, but just because he was lonely). I guess my point is you’re at an impasse and you each need to decide how much you want to sacrifice to be together – you give up kids or him commit to kids.
Cat
+1. The uncertainty is the hardest part. He needs to tell you one way or the other so you can make a fully informed decision, not start dating and hope the 50% grows until it’s too late.
Bonnie Kate
+1 all of this. That’s really hard. It will save you both a lot of heartbreak if you make this a big line in the sand (as it sounds like it already has been drawn) you know you want kids; until he’s prepared to say yes 100% he wants kids, no relationship. I would clearly reiterate that again. None of this “more than 50% chance stuff” because you can’t have a percentage of a kid.
Regarding if you know you’d be okay without kids, as a child-free person, I do know that I am okay without having kids. It really sounds to me like you know you want kids and you’re trying to talk yourself into not having kids. I agree that it may be time to explore other paths such as single parenthood.
Anonymous
I think you should tell him the truth. That you’re in love with him and want a life with him and also want kids, and that he needs to figure out whether he wants them stat. Now is the time for him to decide and if he can’t commit to wanting kids with you in the immediate future, you need to break up with him. He’s not your friend! He’s a guy you’ve spent years fake dating. Of course you can’t find another relationship you aren’t single. And if he can’t give you a yes kids, then you need to move on without him in your life because this is holding you back.
Anon
+1 to all of this. Well said. You’ll never find someone else when you are clearly emotionally involved with this guy. (I had to learn that lesson the hard way myself, so I feel for you, OP!)
Anon
Completely agree with all of this. This is the ‘saved you two thousand dollars of therapy’ comment.
Anon
This.
AnonNoVa
This is so true. I particularly relate to the fake dating part, as I did that with my former best-friend, who I dated for a few years, then basically ‘fake dated’ for a year as best friends after we broke up (break up was also due to a line in the sand type issue). I couldn’t move on until I ended our fake dating relationship. It was devastating to lose him as my best friend but also the only way I could date again (and I met my husband within a few weeks of the second breakup).
Anon
first of all, lots and lots of hugs. would you become a single mom? like have a kid without a partner? bc there is also no guarantee you will find a partner who wants kids. so a third option is you end up with no partner. and if you also don’t want to become a single mom, then you could end up with no partner and no kids. have you had a fertility work up? not trying to suggest you will have fertility issues, but who knows? do you have a therapist? i’d try to find someone to talk to in order to help you figure out if you are ready to come to peace with the ‘what if’
anon
The fact that you’re 36 makes this a bit difficult. If it were me, I’d try dating him for 3-6 months, see where it went, and see where his view on kids goes. You’re 36, you’ve known each other for 4 years – you’re talking a 12 month clock or so to get engaged, another 12 months to plan a wedding, and starting to try for a kiddo immediately after – 2 years from now when you’re 38. In other words, he’s got to make a decision quickly. I think if you want to see where it goes, this internet stranger will happily give you permission to spend a few months on it, but that’s it – you need to set a clock.
And if he’s still saying he’s 50% on the kid thing at that point, then you have to decide which path you want to take, but hopefully with a bit more information on what a relationship with him would be like.
Amy
Honestly at this age and with how long they’ve known each other, I don’t think it makes sense for them to “date” unless there’s a MUTUAL understanding that they’re going to get engaged and married (and, if OP decides it’s needed, start trying for kids). pretty imminently. Like, probably married within 12-18 months. They’ve known each other for 4 years and been “best friends” during that time – what would “officially dating” tell them that they don’t already know?
Senior Attorney
I agree with this, and what’s more if I knew I wanted kids I wouldn’t get involved with him at all unless he were ready to have kids immediately.
Senior Attorney
Coming back to say that honestly, having been a parent but also having been in two childfree marriages after that, I would seriously consider getting back together on the terms above with an understanding up front that kids would NOT be in the picture. If I thought the relationship was worth it.
Anon
Same – if you’re 36 and know that you absolutely want kids (especially if more than one), then I don’t think a two year timeframe makes sense with this guy. He needs to either commit to moving quickly (including starting to try for a kid in the next year or so) or you need to cut ties. Or, you need to accept that kids are not in the picture and he’s worth it. For me, I think I would probably rather be with someone I love and that I know makes me happy than gamble on meeting someone else who makes me happy and wants kids. But, that’s just me. I wouldn’t rather be childfree than a solo parent at 39/40.
Anonymous
what is this, 1950? You can’t have kids if you’re not married?!
Anon
I think you are wasting your time with someone who doesn’t want what you want. I would freeze eggs at this point but not so you can keep dating him (and basically, you are dating him IMO based on what you’ve described, or at a minimum, you’re emotionally involved with him which is preventing you from being involved with someone else). I’d freeze eggs, break up with him/end the friendship/whatever you want to call it, and try to meet someone who can give you what you need.
Egg freezing isn’t as reliable as people say, but given your age I’d do it just because your odds are going to get worse in the next few years from a biological perspective and you’re going to need time to emotionally disengage, meet someone else, and get to the point where you’re ready for parenthood together.
Anon
I love my DH, and things are really solid now. When we were dating (late 20’s) he did not want kids. I always knew I did. Then he flexed to “Okay, I’d be okay with 1 for sure and maybe 2”. When our first kid was ~2, he was all in for a second kid…but then life happened, pandemic happened, etc. and he changed his mind about kid #2.
Fast forward to today – we are ~40 and have 2 kids. However, the 2nd was not planned and it really re-surfaced a lot of his very real past emotions about not wanting to be a parent, what life would look like, etc. It took us a lot of time, pain, and therapy to work through it and re-establish a “new normal”.
Given your age, I agree with the poster that said give it a few months and see if he feels different but if not, stick to your guns and what you want. You will be saving yourself a lot of pain and heartbreak in the long-term.
Anon
I was you, except my ex/guy friend did not want kids. I kept dating, did not find anyone, and decided to go the single parent route. It turns out that my kid was the dealmaker, not the dealbreaker. We married and he adopted my kid 25 years ago. We are still going strong. All of that to say: you need to pursue your dreams. If the guy gets on board, excellent. If not, you are still pursuing your dreams. Do not buy into the 50% he is offering.
Anon
:)
This comment made my morning.
Anonymous
If he came to you and said, “I love you. I want to have kids with you. Let’s get married and do this” — what would your reaction be? Is he someone you love? Can you imagine your life without him? Perhaps just as importantly, can he imagine his life without you?
Why doesn’t he want kids? What has changed to get him to 50%? What would have to change for him to decide he affirmatively wants kids? Would he be comfortable having kids with you at a 50% interest level? A 75% interest level? I know a lot of men and women who never get quite to 100% certainty that they want kids, but are willing to decide to try for kids based on a lower percentage. What kind of timeline does he need to feel comfortable?
What would happen if you date him for real for a few months and give yourself permission to see where it goes? Maybe you discover you are deeply in love with him, but maybe you discover that you are NOT, and in that case,
Are you willing to have kids on your own?
I think the answers to these questions will help you feel less stuck.
AIMS
Also – are you willing to have kids with someone at a 50% interest level?
Monday
And how do you feel about the possibility that he doesn’t pull his weight as a parent? I have a close friend whose now-husband initially wasn’t sure he wanted kids. She gave him time (years) and eventually he decided he did. They now have 2 kids, and he loves them and is involved. But she is definitely doing most of the work, both for the household and as the primary bread-winner. Maybe it would have been this way regardless, and it’s just one story, but throwing it out there. I am angry and resentful on her behalf and wonder if she could have had an all-in husband who actually did his share.
anon
If you want kids so much that you’re willing to be a single parent by choice, I’d say move on from this guy and keep looking. If you are not willing to raise a child alone, and you really love this man, I think I’d pursue the relationship. Maybe he ends up wanting kids, maybe he doesn’t, but either way you are in a fulfilling partnership. That would be preferable to me than risking maybe ending up with no partner and no baby, but only you can make that decision.
Anonymous
He’s stringing you along by giving you just enough hope to hold out long enough that biology makes the decision for you. He’s being unkind and selfish. If he truly loved you but he can’t give you a yes today then he would let you go so you can grieve him and work on meeting someone to have children with. You made the right call the first time around, but you need to cut contact with him so you can truly move on.
Anonymous
If you were my friend IRL, I would very nicely but bluntly tell you that you need to cut him off. He’s taking up a big chunk of the “partner” space in your brain even though he’s just a friend. I’ve seen this happen over and over with friends of mine (both men and women) where they are very close with someone who doesn’t meet their needs and it impedes their ability to find a partner. Eventually they dramatically reduce contact with, or cut off, the person who doesn’t meet their needs and it opens up a whole world of options. Right now, he is occupying your time (less time to date, meet new people) and emotional space (you are dedicating most of your capacity for maintaining an intimate relationship to him). You need to free up both your time and emotional space and it will get easier to meet someone who is amazing and shares your goals.
Also, I mean this as nicely as possible, but he doesn’t want to have kids with you. You’ve known him for 3.5 years now and he’s unwilling to say he’ll have kids with you. He probably is somewhat uncertain, but he also gets that if he says he doesn’t want kids with you then you will cut him off and he enjoys the emotional benefits of your close friendship. “More than 50%” is not yes. You are 36, and unfortunately biology treats men and women differently here.
I think you should talk to a therapist about this (including considering becoming a single mother by choice) and freeze your eggs. Totally disagree with the other poster that it is a waste of time – success rates have meaningfully improved given the larger number of women freezing their eggs and the studies have not caught up. While it’s not a guarantee you will be able to have kids, it is the best insurance policy available and will buy you a little time to figure out what you want.
Best of luck.
Anon
Amen.
Anon
I agree with all of this. He’s only at 50% after all this time – that means he’s a no, in my book.
I’m also mid thirties, single, and no immediate prospects. I very much want kids, but know that I do not want to be a single parent either. I’m currently going through the process of freezing my eggs. It’s not a guarantee I’ll be able to have kids in the future if I do find someone, but the odds are pretty good and it gives me less of a feeling/pressure that I need to find someone to spend my life with immediately.
Anon
I feel like you have the direction of this wrong. You’re saying that if you want to date him, you have to accept that he may not want kids.
I’d put it the other way. If he wants to date you, he needs to make up his mind now. If he wants kids, you’ll date him. If he doesn’t, you go your separate ways. Enough of the hemming and hawing.
Anon
– If you think right now that you want kids, you want kids. I would not pursue a path that doesn’t include becoming a mom. I have a friend who wanted kids and then married an older guy who already had a kid and decided he did not want any more. She is bitter about what she gave up and there really has not been a reconciliation for her of what she gave up vs. what she got back. It’s unfortunate and she is unhappy (but working on it). One thing I’ll share: before my friend married her husband, he had told her “yeah yeah, I am open to having more kids” and then “changed his mind” once they were married. Do not end up in that kind of situation.
– What I am going to say now kinda contradicts my last sentence above: my own husband was on the fence about having kids, and then we had one, and he is an awesome dad and eternally thankful for our son. I have known men who were 100% against having kids; they got vasectomies. I’ve known a number of men who were kinda-sorta into having kids or not really into having kids or would maybe consider having kids with the right person, and ended up having kids and it was fine; they are good dads and helpful partners. I know it doesn’t work that way for everyone, but I do think that for a lot of guys, kids are an abstract concept and hard to fully conceptualize until they arrive. The situations I have seen IRL with deadbeat married dads – what other people here are describing, where the husband is OK having kids but never helps with them – have arisen in marriages where the guy was very into the idea of having the “perfect family” as part of his public image, but was also fundamentally extremely selfish and didn’t want to give up anything to help make the picture a reality. And so they got married and had kids and kept living like they were single. Only you know this guy you’re dating well enough to determine whether he’s a fundamentally good person who really loves you and will go the extra mile to make things work, or if he’s the type of guy that will shine you on and tell you what you want to hear, and then when you have a kid it’s all going to be on you to make things work. Or if he’ll tell you after you get married “I don’t want kids after all.”
– I also completely agree with the idea that you can have a baby on your own and this guy can either come along for the ride or self-select out. Alyssa Shelasky is a writer for NY Mag, etc. and she decided to have a baby on her own, as a single mom; she went to a sperm bank. She ended up meeting a man when her daughter was an infant, and that guy ended up adopting her daughter, and then they have a child together now. There are tons of role models out there for the “I’m doing this on my own” path, including Charlize Theron, Sandra Bullock, Kristin Davis and others. I am a big fan of the idea that if you want a baby, have or adopt a baby. The right guy, who wants to be part of your family, will either come along – or he won’t. Either way, you’ll have your family and won’t be sitting around at age 70 wondering what-if.
Anon
Ugh, this is so hard. I’m sorry. I basically agree with all the above advice but would approach decision making a different way:
– how badly do you want kids? Are you willing to be a single mom by choice? What is your tolerance for IVF/adoption/foster care etc? How many do you want? These are really personal questions and there’s no right answer. I personally knew I wanted biological kids more than anything else and was starting to move towards creating a support system and sperm donation at 32 but I feel like that’s I’m on the extreme end of the spectrum.
– unfortunately, since you’re 36, I’d definitely recommend fertility work up and considering egg freezing. You sadly don’t have time to waste.
– I agree if you decide to really date this guy, you have to be willing to accept a future where you guys don’t have kids. How does that make you feel?
– I agree with the above advice that if what you really want is a partner to have kids with you need to cut this guy out completely. I personally would do their fertility work up and aggressive online dating (being honest about your goals) for the next 2ish years.
SMC-San Diego
Just coming here to say that if you are interested in being a single mother, there is an organization called Single Mothers by Choice and they have an active on-line community of thinkers (their term for people who are considering the option).
That is how I had my wonderful (now adult) daughter and it was the best choice for me but only you can decide if it is the path for you.
Jeffiner
I really wanted kids, and my boyfriend was 50/50. I decided to marry my boyfriend anyway, because I loved him and wanted to build a life with him, that he was a reality and kids were still a future dream. We eventually decided to have kids…and then had multiple miscarriages and IVF failures. We did manage to have one daughter, and I’m still happy with him 10 years later.
Anon
What would you do? I’ve been a school counselor for 9 years but have decided to pursue a more clinical route and return to grad school with the intention of eventually going into private practice and earning more money. Would you: #1 Plan on eventually doing one additional year of public sector/state/school work to be vested in the pension system or #2 Transfer the funds out of the retirement system into Roth IRA and plan on the higher income/happiness of no longer being a public school employee outweighing the modest pension (as of now, would be $10k/year when retired if in system 10 years.) I don’t have any social security, as you don’t accrue that while in pension job.
Anonymous
I would do an intense year with part time grad school and working to get your ten years.
Anonymous
This is what I would do if possible. Bonus would be smaller student loans.
Anon
Only one year till you’re vested? Stick it out!
Anon
What would your pension be worth if you vested? For one year, it seems like vesting is likely the way to go. If you transfer funds out, do you only get what you contributed, or your employer’s (generally larger) share as well?
Anon
Thanks for the replies. I currently earn $70k per year, and if I did an additional year to reach 10 years/ be vested, the pension would be about $10k per year once I retire (would adjust per cost of living.) The last few years working in schools have been brutal, but I could do the additional year in any type of pension public sector work before I retire. If I cashed out, I think it would be around $50-60k.
Anon
10k per year for life is approximately $250k in savings (withdrawing 4%/year). Sure, you could possibly, even probably, grow that $50-60k into $250k by the time you retire, but $10k/year for the rest of your life once you retire is worth gutting out another year unless your current job is so toxic your health is suffering.
Anon
Agree. I would also look to vest because it adds some stability to your retirement mix. A guaranteed $10k plus inflation, plus a marginally smaller retirement account, puts you in a better place than a slightly larger retirement account that is subject to the whims of the market.
Anon
Stay until you’re vested!
anon
Where do you get nice but not enormously overpriced area rugs? I have thus far got mine from wayfair or amazon for like a couple hundred a pop, and they just look noticeably not as nice as they could. I also don’t want to spend thousands for each of them though.
anon
For easy, not treasure hunt purchases, we’ve had good luck with Rugs USA, with the expectation that our rugs last 5 or so years due to pets/klutziness. A low pile wool rug will hold up better than a lot of the loi loi style that is everywhere right now. I’ve also been able to buy 100% wool rugs from home goods/at home but that is very much a lucky finds situation. Depending on your style, turkish and persian rugs are having a moment right now, and lots of antique dealers have stacks to rummage through.
AIMS
I try to get 100% wool, which I think makes a difference, esp. over time. I’ve had luck at Homegoods, online at Overstock (read reviews carefully), and even on Etsy. I think the most I’ve paid is around $400.
Mrs. Jones
Tuesday Morning
anon
How is west elm?
AIMS
I don’t think very good. You’re paying for the brand and not the rug. Many aren’t wool, either.
Anonymous
I have several 100% wool rugs from West Elm, purchased on sale, and they have held up very well to two dogs.
Anonymous
I like mine. 100 % wool and a whole glass of red wine came right out. Wool will shed for a few weeks but it’s worth it imo.
Wool rugs are with a splurge in my opinion. I have really big rooms in my new house so while I save up I have jute rugs down. Theyre temporary because you can’t really clean spots. (Threw a cowhide rug over the jute rug where the kids play-those things are kid proof.) I also got a vintage handmade Turkish rug off of Etsy for a few hundred bucks that looks designer-ish (who knows if it’s really any of those thing but it
Looks nice.)
Hope this helps!!!
Ann(e)
I bought a wool West Elm rug 8 years ago and it’s still beautiful. Earlier this year, I bought a second one and so far, so good. I was able to get both on steep discount at an outlet.
Anonymous
E Sale rugs online. The vast majority of their rugs are vintage, 100% wool rugs. We’ve bought 4 rugs from them over the years and vastly prefer them to any new rugs we’ve purchased. So much less shedding a much higher quality.
Lily
Our 100% wool pottery barn rugs are really nice. Just try to get them on sale. We’ve paid anywhere from $400-900 for a large rug (8×10 or 9×12), always on sale, and they’re really, really nice. We baby them (we use them in upstairs rooms, not in dining room, always clean up messes immediately, vacuum regularly) but they seem durable. And they just look so much more luxe than a polyester rug from rugs.com (which we have plenty of too, like under our dining table).
Also, look at estate sales! For real persian rugs or made in the USA hand-loomed persian-look rugs. We recently got a Kerastan 100% wool huge rug for our formal living room, for under $1000, from an estate sale. It’s actually pretty new and was in perfect shape.
Anonymous
I agree with 100% wool. Nylon is also incredibly durable but doesn’t tend to look as nice. Stay far away from rayon blends; it’s just not very durable. To get around challenging returns, you can order the tiny size of a rug as a sample, or see if Target carries the rug you are interested in so you can return in store if need be. We bought our rug from Target but it’s not a Target product and i saw it on other websites. Our cats destroy looped rugs so i avoid those and look for knotted pile.
Anon
I like to touch rugs in person so I have only ever bought from HomeSense and HomeGoods. Both are owned by Tjx, and I recommend the former for broader selection if both are an option near where you live. Prices are good – I recently bought a 5×7 for less than $100 and a 8×10 for $300, both very soft and nice designs, and there were multiple options I liked for those sizes. A beautiful wool rug was being sold for $400 marked down from $1500, but alas we have dogs and kids so wanted synthetic material and something we could easily have the roomba clean.
Anon
Agree with others that 100% wool is the way to go, and I’ve found rug prices at Crate & Barrel to be surprisingly good. If there’s a particular rug you really want i wouldn’t wait for it to go on sale (I think their list prices compare favorably with other stores), but if you’re somewhat flexible about exact color/pattern I’d peruse their sale section (both online and in store if you have a store nearby; contents are sometimes different) to see if there’s something you like–I think the deals there can be quite good.
Anon
I like antique Persian tribal rugs. My favorite are Shiraz. I look everywhere and anywhere but my favorite came from a tent sale in the Home Depot parking lot. I’ve also bought from dealers online.
Anon
Like this one (the link is to give you an idea of the style, though this does seem like a decent deal)
https://rugsource.com/rugs/vintage-tribal-geometric-shiraz-persian-area-rug-7×10-6
Anon
Talk to me about vacation homes, please. My dream is to have a modest beach house and land or a simple cabin on a small lake, eventually. Current house has $240k left on the mortgage and is valued at $400k. I’m 39, with two tween kids and a household income of $200k now with hopes of eventually $300k with my higher earning potential at new job. Out of the realm of possibility? How have you made it work and what have you prioritized to do so? Thanks! Located on the east coast in New England.
Anne-on
I think you can definitely make it work especially if you plan to use this as your retirement home and sell your more costly primary home after your kids are in college. Have you run the numbers on taxes for a second home (which are usually higher)?
Also – have you done any research into how you’d furnish, maintain, and manage emergencies in a second home? Are you (and your kids) ok with basically taking all of your vacation time in this location? My parents and in laws both have vacation homes 6+ hours away from their primary homes and it is a SIGNIFICANT issue as they age – both in terms of needing to pay for additional help to manage upkeep, fixes after weather events, and even just updating the AC/heat is hard when you’re not local. Also you may be surprised at your kids – both my husband and I despise the long drive to the second home(s) and are sick of visiting as all of our vacation time as kids was spent there. Our siblings go a bit more, but similarly were sick of visiting for every.single.break. by the time they hit their late teens.
Anon
We did this. We kept or primary home price and mortgage below what we could afford which left room for us to be able to have another mortgage on the 2nd home. I am in a L-MCOL state, but for reference, our two mortgages together are what most people spend on one mortgage in this state. For us, it has been entirely worth it.
Anon
Like the other comments mentioned, our home is only 1.5 hours away and that makes a huge difference in how often we go. We can go for just a weekend, and my husband will sometimes go for just the day to take care of maintenance things. It also takes some pressure off thinking you have to spend every vacation and holiday there; we go often enough that we don’t feel like we have to do that.
Anonymous
+1
My grandparents shore house is only 1.5 hours from where my whole family lives. When the house is not rented some relatives pretty much live there and the rest of us come every weekend. If it was further obviously it would be more difficult.
anon
Would you want to rent out the property in the meantime? If yes, I think this is doable. If it were me, I’d first prioritize putting away $$ for a downpayment on the 2nd home (20% minimum since it’s a second home), and start looking at roughly what you can get for your money in different places. I’d also say, if you can get to a decent downpayment, you might be surprised at what’s reasonable if you’re renting it out from time to time. Especially if you’re willing to sacrifice prime summer weeks for the first few years to really put away cash and pay down the mortgage (with the ideal being to refinance eventually and get your payment lowered).
Ribena
This is what I’d suggest. My parents bought a holiday home in 2007 (pretty terrible timing in hindsight) which when they’re not using it is rented out (essentially a purpose built holiday let, so like an Airbnb but not taking homes out of the market). Because it’s on a development with 30ish other holiday homes they’re managed centrally (for a fee obviously) so they don’t have to organise things like changeover cleaning.
I think most years the house ‘washes its own face’, so it doesn’t cost them money to own but also doesn’t make them money. They don’t use it in high season though.
Anonymous
I have done this. I debated a mortgage and renting it out briefly, but decided I’d rather put $xx (about 10% of my retirement savings) toward the house than to have it sit in cash (where it had been). I love having this place. Keys for me are that it was turnkey, right near water (obstructed water views, but it’s there), small enough, little land, and most importantly, a town that’s been around for a long time, a good distance (1 hr drive, no bridge traffic), and not in a flood zone.
Senior Attorney
My husband has a 1/3 share in a ski condo and we almost never use it because (a) it’s a six-hour drive, and (b) it’s 1 bd/1ba so no room to have anybody else stay with us. So I’d say “modest” is fine but don’t go too small.
Anon
Thank you; these are all super helpful replies. The beach house is want is in the $400-$600k range, with healthy New England property taxes. Folks rent their beach houses out here for around $10k/month, so could cover some property tax costs by renting it and would eventually be interested in spending summers here, leaving New England in the winters, so I suppose selling primary home could make sense. Rising sea levels/climate change and flood insurance would be the main downsides to the beach house idea. If we were to want a lake/ski place as well, I think it would have to be super, super rustic and affordable like a tiny cabin or just land initially with plans to eventually put something modest on it.
Ribena
Yes this is a great point. My parents’ place sleeps 5 (double, twin, single rooms) plus has a sofa bed. For big groups they will often rent another of the houses on the development at mates’ rates.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, I think a three hour or less drive is key to making it worthwhile. If you can’t realistically drive there after work on a Friday night, it doesn’t seem worth it to me.
Anon
Everyone has different preferences but what is your long term goal especially once your kids grow up and have their own families? My parents have a modest cottage about 2 hours from their house and envisioned everyone heading there for family vacations forever. Except now I have a husband and two kids, and each of my three siblings is married and with a kid, and the cottage is a very small two bedroom one bathroom. So no one feels like hauling it up there to share a bathroom and it’s rarely used right now. We wish they would just sell it and put the money into a vacation fund or something but they are emotionally attached. I am really not sure it’s worth it in our case.
Anne-on
OMG this on the emotional attachment. It can be a real beast in an estate if one child wants the home and the other doesn’t and the parents want to split everything 50/50 – vacation homes are NOT easy to sell in a down market.
Anon
Ha my family was the opposite. My grandmother built a giant country house figuring she had 3 adult kids, one grandchild (me) and more on the way, and we would all be there every summer. Well, one of her kids died, another had only 1 child, and my and my parents moved to another country. She died a few years ago and my uncle inherited the house, and it’s just him and his wife there most of the time because his one kid doesn’t like to go and isn’t planning to have kids. I wish I could go but it’s too far to go more than once every few years.
Anon
Lots of people we know in NYC bought second homes upstate or in PA during the pandemic. It’s a lifestyle. They spend most of their vacation time there and most weekends, so we rarely see them. It’s wonderful when we get invited up though, so I would second what CA said and make sure you have enough room for visitors.
Anon
Years ago, my father bought a modest beach house on the Cape – 1950s construction, about 1,800 square feet, was not really built with great materials when it was built – and it’s now worth $1.3 million. Per my point the other day about how the rich actually have gotten quite a bit more wealthy in the last 10-15 years, you’ll find that the price of vacation homes has skyrocketed. There’s simply a lot more people with a lot more money, bidding them up, and there aren’t new lakes or beaches being made.
Beyond that, ask yourself if your tweens are the types to be excited about visiting the lake/beach house or if the whole “rustic charm” thing will really turn them off. One way that the math on a second home works is that all of your vacations are spent there – you don’t go to Europe or Florida or Hawaii as a family.
Anon
Different market so I can’t speak to price, but we have a second home and love it. We live in the city during the week and spend weekends in the country. Bought a place just big enough to have friends up, which is really fun and we use it extensively for that. Factors that work – close enough we could even commute from here if need be. A 1.5 hour drive means we go all the time. Further away and it would be a hassle. Things that don’t – thinking you’ll recoup the carrying costs from vacation renting. Our place is in a white hot vacation town and was a “top rental” when we put it on the vacation market. It grossed a fair amount but the repairs and replacements from renter damage ultimately weren’t even close to worth it. Not to mention, fees to the local rental agency (many towns require this and it’s a second job to manage a vacation place so you’ll want to anyway). I’d get something you can comfortably afford and keep it for yourself.
Seafinch
I think you can do this! I’m Canadian so it’s a totally different calculation BUT we bought an ocean front home in the rural, sort of remote area I come from when I was 32 with a one year old, HHI approx 210k. We purchased at 175k, put 40k cash down, and put 45k into renovations immediately. It’s worth about 300k now. Primary residence was somewhere in the range of 400k purchase price with 25% equity. We move all the time because of the military and have been at least 16 hours of driving away since then (sometimes over seas). We are now at 315k HHI and owe 525k on both houses with a combined value of about 1.45 million ( who knows if they will hold). It’s been a lot of work, it’s a fixer as is our primary residence but it is the cornerstone to our family (three kids later). We don’t vacation anywhere else and don’t have cash to do much else very fancy, i.e. drive a ten year old minivan, no other cars, both houses are very much not fancy. But we really love it and I am so happy we did it.
A
We bought a vacation home halfway across the world during the pandemic. Objective is to spend summers here. And that’s what I’m doing as I type this. I can’t believe we did something so crazy, but here we are.
Anon
Car question. We are a family of 5 adult-sized people. A lot of minivans now seem to have 2 captains chairs not no option for 3 seats across the second row (except in some lower trim models). Yes? No? Our aging Odyssey lets us put 3 across the second row (so lots of storage space for vacations and camping space). If we had to regularly use the third row around town or with friends that is fine. I get that captains chairs are super nice but I hate the idea that you can’t put 8 people in a minivan. (Can I just buy an airport shuttle? Carpooling would be so much easier.). Asking specifically about the Sienna and Carnival.
Anonymous
How often are you driving 8 people around?
Anon
Ha! If you’d have 3 kids, probably very often I. The summer carpooling to different camps each week. Working mom summers are like D-day that changes each week. Varsity level logistics.
Anon
The Sienna has options to have a bench seat and not captain’s chairs. It’s hybrid too, which is nice, IMO.
Seafinch
We have an old Sienna which has a removable jump seat for the second row. I specifically chose it because it bumped capacity to 8 people, in contrast to the Odyssey. We use it frequently and I have travelled cross country in it for hours. I have no idea if they still make that option but would choose it again absolutely. Best of both worlds.
Anonymous
This is what our Highlander has and it works great for carpooling, etc.
Anon
I don’t really understand your question, but the current Odyssey can seat 8 with 2nd row captains chairs (there’s a removable 8th seat that fits in between the captain’s chairs).
Anon
We weren’t keen on the Sienna’s 2nd row option when we looked at it. The salesman said, “Oh, yeah, it can seat 8!” No, not really. The 8th seat that goes between the two captain’s chairs is this flimsy, uncomfortable, jump seat, after-thought thing. It was so unappealing we crossed it off our list for that reason.
Sybil
The Odyssey has a removable jump seat for the second row. We’ve used it with two wide car seats and a booster, so that’s comfortable for three adults. You CAN fit three adults in the back but it’s tight.
anon
Possibly the dumbest question I’ve asked here: how do you decide if a particular hair part works for your face shape? I’ve had a side part on the same side for over 20 years (I’m 44). Lately I’ve been toying with the idea of changing it to a middle part. But it looks so weird to my eyes. Not sure if I’m just not used to it or if it really does not look as good as a side part. Don’t want to ask for opinions IRL because I know people will just lie and say it looks good no matter what!
Cat
I go Clueless route – pictures don’t lie.
Monday
But what if you hate all pictures of yourself?
Curious
Monday you speak my truth.
nuqotw
I tried a center part at home for a week to get used to it and evaluate more objectively. I’m 41. I think a center part needs more work than a side part to look intentional but maybe that’s just my hair.
Anonymous
Try a slightly off-centre part. Not full middle, but half an inch towards your regular part.
Anon
I’m side part forever. Classic beauties like Lauren Bacall and Veronica Lake rocked a side part as part of their signature look, and I really don’t care about the current trend because it will just go back the other way soon enough.
NYNY
When I managed a hair salon, one of the stylists told me that your part emphasizes whatever facial feature it points to. Center parts emphasize your nose, and also highlight facial symmetry (or lack thereof). Side parts emphasize the eye on the side of your part.
Also, your hair probably parts itself if you’ve been parting it the same way for so long, so it may poof a little where you change it. Try to make the two sides as even as possible when judging a center part, because you could be reacting to the poof instead of the part.
All that being said, I may be an agent of chaos, because I vote bangs. ;-)
anon
Huh, this was very helpful, thanks! And yeah, I’m wondering if I should just go back to bangs instead. :)
Anon
Bangs 4 lyfe
anon
So honestly, and I don’t mean to sound harsh, but the areas that have single-family homes at that price tend not to be conducive to meeting other singles. You might not care – that’s totally fine! I’d just prepare yourself to schlep into the city for dates if you go the SF home route.
If you’re willing to go townhouse or condo with private entrance, I’d look at Old Town – there are some condos with ground floor private entrances and nice outdoor areas, but we’re talking like 600 sqft of space for that amount of $$.
anon
I’ve never bought a new car before and I’m at loss as to how to actually do it. I’ve already test drove the one I want and know what features I want, etc. When I test drove the car (Toyota Highlander) the guy said I’d have to put $1,000 down to order the car I want. But my dad, who lives in another state, said he called the dealer and they didn’t require a deposit. I know stock is really low, so it seems I’ll have to order one, right? Should I just order one through the dealer my dad talked to? He lives within driving distance so I could go there to pick it up. How else should I be approaching this? Buying online and not even talking to a dealer? My dad is an experienced buyer but he’s definitely old school about this kind of stuff so I don’t think he’d know how to do it online. Thanks for any guidance!
Anon
This seems reasonable. Demand is so hot for cars right now; when I recently purchased a 2017 hybrid Rav 4, I puts $500 deposit on (refundable) while on the phone and has to go there the same day to purchase otherwise they weren’t willing to hold it. They want serious buyers. Also, are you sure you want a brand-new car and not one 1-2 years old? The excise tax will be significantly higher on a new car vs. certified pre-owned.
Lily
We are also waiting for a Toyota Highlander (hybrid). There is a months-long waiting list. We had to put a $1,000 deposit down, and have been waiting for months. You can get the deposit back at any time, it’s just to make sure you’re serious about wanting the car. Cars are in seriously short supply right now.
anon
With few exceptions, in the US you can’t order a car online– you have to do it through a dealer. My understanding is that Toyota, unlike some other car manufacturers, does not take true orders, even from the dealer. By putting down a deposit, you’re claiming a dealer’s “allocation.” Depending on their size and sales history, dealerships are allocated a certain amount of specific vehicles determined by Toyota, not the dealer, which they then can sell to the general public or distribute to customers who have paid a deposit. Each dealership can operate its own way, so it’s possible the dealership near your dad doesn’t do deposits. But in my area, the $1,000 deposit is near-universal, and there’s no way to secure a new car—especially a high-demand car like a Highlander—without paying the deposit. On the other hand, the way the car market is right now has made out-of-state new car purchases very common, so if the car is available near your dad and the price is right, it could make sense to buy it from there.
FWIW, I started out looking for a specific Rav4 model in the late fall, realized I couldn’t order it to spec and would have to take whatever model the dealership could get its hands on AND would have to wait 4+ months to get it, and then realized that most Toyota dealerships near me were adding $5k+ “market adjustments,” putting the Rav4 in the luxury car price range. So I put the brakes on and am currently test driving cars made by manufacturers who will allow me to order what I want so that I don’t pay an insane amount of money and wait half a year only to receive something that isn’t exactly what I want. Buying a new car right now is not an easy process.
anon
So, if you put down the deposit, and then a car came in that was not exactly what you wanted (or could live with), then would you have lost the deposit? I’ve accepted that we aren’t going to get a deal on a new car, and that we’ll likely be paying more the market. Given that I don’t think the situation will improve within the next year or maybe even two, I’m ok with paying more because we need a new car. And its our only one. And we will drive it for as long as it runs! :)
anon
The deposit is almost always refundable, so if you decline the car that they offer you, you get it back. Possibly you could leave the deposit with the dealer and they could keep you at the front of the line in case the car you want does come in.
When I was looking at Toyotas, my salesman showed me a list of all the allocations they knew were coming in at some point in the next 4-6 months, and none of those allocations was the trim level I wanted. So if I were you, I’d ask them what the possibility of them receiving exactly what you want (i.e., how many allocations of that trim they expect to get or have gotten in the past) and whether there would be other people ahead of you in line for that trim. And definitely keep in mind that car salesman are notorious liars who will do a lot to get a sale…so call around until you think you’ve found someone you can trust!
Anonymous
I’m also fed up with these “market adjustments”…what cars are you looking at in lieu of the RAV 4?
Aunt Jamesina
If it’s a deposit, then isn’t that money just rolled into your payment for the car once it arrives, not an extra fee? And yes, I think a lot of people have to order cars right now with the low inventory, unless you’re fine with what’s on the lot.
In the event it is an extra fee (which seems strange), I would look into any fees your state might impose when changing over the registration from your dad’s state to yours, it might eat up some of the savings.
Anon
Exactly. It ends up going towards the purchase price of the car.
Anon8
People without kids– what are your longterm goals? I’m in my early 30s and feel like I’ve achieved everything I’m “supposed” to. Married, own a house, have a dog, earn six-figures, go on vacation…and I kind of feel like now what? I’m certainly grateful for what I have, but my husband and I were discussing longterm goals recently and we both feel like we don’t really know what to work toward next. I feel like for many of my friends this question is answered with “kids” but we don’t want any. Fellow childless people, what are you working toward in the 5 to 10 year range?
Anon
For me, it’s working toward a level of financial security that allows me more freedom to volunteer and also donate more to various causes.
Anon
I’m writing a novel! I have friends who are doing triathlons if something active is more your style.
As a recovering Type A person, I’m trying not to have a checklist and instead am working toward just a happier, more content life, filled with people and things and activities I love and who love me back. This translates into devoting time to hobbies and volunteer activities that fill my cup and a goal to focus less on work.
Saguaro
I like this thinking a lot!
Friends?
+1 in the same boat and could really use advice from the wise hive!
Senior Attorney
I have a kid but he’s grown. We keep busy giving back to the community — highly recommend! Maybe take on a leadership position with a local nonprofit that speaks to you?
Bonnie Kate
My biggest goal is opening and owning a yoga studio in my small town in a sustainable way that I can do it for the next 30+ years. I’m already in the process of doing this (have been for several years) and hopefully the building will be ready in the next year and I can finally open. Sustainability is the big thing for me – it’s a joy project, not a money project or goal.
Related to that goal, getting my advanced yoga teaching training.
We have house related goals; we built a few years ago and did a lot of the major stuff but have other stuff to do. Finishing the unfinished basement, lots of landscaping and adding plants, I want to do a brick patio courtyard in the back yard, DH wants a larger driveway and more concrete close to the house. Eventually we’ll build another large garage for toys and boats (we have 7+ acres).
Together we want to hike in all of the national parks – that’s a 5-10 year range goal. We also have a together goal of cleaning up our eating and probably becoming vegetarian at home that we’re slowly working towards.
I want to get back into skydiving; not sure if I really want my license anymore (I got about 6 solo jumps into it and then chickened out), but I do want to start tandem skydiving at least yearly again. Maybe I’ll make that an annual birthday thing…
I volunteer heavily (am the president of one of the local civic clubs in our little community) and have community goals. Right now I’m shifting to focus on replacing playground equipment, updating our tennis courts, and convincing everyone to add a bunch of murals. Our club is an aging club, so I also have a strong focus on building partnerships with other organizations to preserve programs we’ve built for the last fifty years so they don’t disappear when the club does.
Yoga Studio
I would love to open a yoga studio! Can you tell me at a high level what is involved? There is a studio near me that closed due to the pandemic and I would love to buy that and open a studio. But it feels overwhelming to me since I have no idea what the steps are, and I currently work full time so not sure I could do both.
Anon
To enjoy my life and prepare for retirement without sacrificing enjoyment. I don’t do long-term goals anymore for this exact reason. The now what didn’t bring me any enjoyment but instead angst. I would like to find a long-term romantic partner, and am working on that, but otherwise, my goal is to make my life enjoyable (this will look different for everyone). For me it means art, vacations, hobbies, high-quality sustainable clothing, charity, and time with friends.
Anonymous
I’m 10 years older than you. I’d say my goals are:
-Financial security so that early retirement is an option, where I exercise the option or not.
-Do a house flip/have a project house at some point in life – not one I live in but one I can work on and then sell; I just think it’d be fun though am also realistic enough to realize it’s so much work that I’d probably do it once and never again.
-Line things up financially so I can possibly buy a business in my 50s; ideally I’d want a small business in manufacturing, infrastructure etc.
-Travel. I really haven’t traveled at all and really feel like I’ve already waited far too long as I have some health issues and having seen people in my family, I don’t feel comfortable at all that I’d be traveling after retirement. Not even talking major travel, I’m talking just a week or two places all my peers have already been like Italy, Paris, Greece.
Anon
Nothing? Just enjoying life and being with my husband, dog, family and friends. Investment is on autopilot (more or less, but it’s not hard with a DINK lifestyle). I suppose goals are getting back to at least one international trip a year.
Anonymous
I try a new sport or activity every year. Last year was snowboarding, this year is rowing. If I like the activity, I keep it up on an ongoing or casual basis (like just on vacation), if I hate it then usually my attempts to learn result in some funny stories. I have kids but I started this pre kids and kept it up.
Anon
Make your “nut” so you can retire early (you’re coming into your prime earning years right now); volunteer for an organization meaningful to you and develop a long-term relationship with that organization; physical fitness; pursue close relationships with friends and family who will be with you into old age instead of kids; pursue a second side career; pursue a side hobby. If you love your hobby, and you want a goal, you can decide to become good enough to be competitive in whatever the hobby is. Think about how you can become more of yourself. Branching coral grows by creating more and more of itself, more and more branches. What branch will grow next?
Anon
What do you prioritize financially? Early retirement, travel, covering kids’ college costs, purchasing a vacation home/eventually leaving the USA if living here and why? I’m realizing that I need to discern what my key priorities are and start aggressively saving.
Anon
Living well now and not being reckless so there’s a retirement to be had. This is much easier with a decent salary, more so two of them, so I don’t really compromise here.
Anonymous
Haha. Paying my bills and existing debt. Those other things are for other people. Glad you have this problem.
Anon
Financial security, saving for college for my kids, and early retirement. Which paid off because now I’m 57 and on my retirement glide path, working part time self-employed.
Anon
Saving decently for retirement (but not early – DH at least expects to work to 70+, health permitting) and travel. We expect family help with college and we have a vacation home in the family. Very grateful for those things. I don’t care about “stuff”at all. We have six figure household income in a very LCOL area, so we spend kind of an insane amount on travel.
Curious
Pay down debt, build emergency fund, save for retirement, anything else, in that order. However, if you are lucky enough to be on the latter two, you don’t have to have all of retirement saved to do “anything else;” you just want to have a goal and be on track.
Vicky Austin
Can we do a book rec thread? I had two knockout hits this weekend and just am bubbling over to share.
-My Glory Was I Had Such Friends by Amy Silverstein: I’ve had this on my TBR for a loooong time and I don’t remember where/how I heard about it, but it was so, so worth it. If honest (but not graphic) depictions of what it’s like to be hospitalized with a debilitating condition aren’t your thing, you may want to skip, but I was so touched by the themes of friendship and its different forms and appreciating your friends for the incredible people they are, and also found her meditations on illness with regard to bodily autonomy thought-provoking. 5/5 highly recommend.
-The Most Fun We Ever Had by Claire Lombardo: OMG. I’ll admit to being a sucker for “sweeping family dramas” and I knew I’d enjoy this going in, but I was not prepared to be faced with such a mirror, compassionate yet exacting. In the vein of The Last Romantics or Ask Again, Yes, but it felt like a happier ending (content warning for miscarriage/infant loss on the way there though). Here’s my favorite quote: “…the only portrait you could ever get, really, of one sister from another, tinged with jealousy and double standards and affection as deep and intractable as marrow.” 6/5. Loved it.
What are your most-enjoyed recent reads? Or not, always here for snark too!
Cb
I started lessons in chemistry in the airport and finished on the plane (travelling solo with an almost 5 year old is so much easier despite a 4 hour delay!) and it was a delight.
Senior Attorney
Really enjoyed “Counterfeit” by Kirstin Chen — especially if you enjoy anti-heroines. Hijinx in the world of high-end counterfeit handbags.
The Measure by Nikki Erlick had me up all night — it’s a sci-fi ? fantasy ? in which everybody on earth receives a box containing a string that indicates how long or short their life will be and, of course, complications ensue. It focuses on a few people, a mix of “short stringers” and “long stringers,” and I found it quite moving.
Anon
OOOOH that second book sounds right up my alley. I would for sure want to know how long my string was, though I’ve got some friends who wouldn’t.
Senior Attorney
That’s so funny. The whole time I was reading it I was all “no way would I look!”
Anon
Over the weekend I finished “Olympus, Texas” and really loved it. It’s a modern retelling of Roman myths set in southern Texas. I also loved “A Brutal Telling” by Louise Penny, but it’s the 5th book in a series. It’s her Inspector Gamache series, which I love when I feel like I need a warm hug of a book.
Next up for me is either “Remarkably Bright Creatures” or “The Left Hand of Darkness,” in case anyone has strong feelings between those two!
Sunflower
You’d enjoy “Marrying the Ketchups” by Jennifer Close. It’s just the kind of sweeping family drama you like. Also, a book from a few years ago called “Saints For All Occasions” by J. Courtney Sullivan.
Vicky Austin
Thank you!! I loved Friends and Strangers by JCS so I’m delighted there’s one from her back catalog that fills this niche interest of mine.
Ribena
Ooh, I’m ready for this.
A couple of weekends ago I devoured Malibu Rising (ran a bath, opened the book, stayed in the bath until it was done). Loved it.
Last week I read Alison Cochrun’s The Charm Offensive and also adored it.
For non fiction I recently read Ana Kinsella’s Look Here which is about London and what it’s like to be in a city, especially during and after isolation. It’s what I wanted Lauren Elkin’s Flaneuse to be – loved it! Also read Stanley Tucci’s Taste on audio over the last week or so and it was delicious -I would listen to that man read the phone book! I’m about halfway through Monisha Rajesh’s Around The World In 80 Trains and it’s great fun (though it is giving me itchy feet)
Vicky Austin
Nice! I just read Daisy Jones a week or so ago, finally, after reading Seven Husbands in like 2019. I haven’t heard of half of yours so thank you for new things to chase! Also, staying in the bath until I finish a book is my favorite thing to do.
Anonymous
I just finished Standard Deviation by Katherine Heiny and could not put it down
Outside of a dog
Ooh, thank you Vicky! I read a GREAT book this weekend and wanted to share.
My Mess is a Bit of a Life: Adventures in Anxiety by Georgia Pritchett
These are personal vignettes by a comedy writer who worked on Veep and its English predecessor, The Thick of It, and they are laugh out loud hilarious. Also interesting takes on her experiences as a woman in a male-dominated field, and some sad bits, too.
Anon
Dress me please! We’re finally taking a vacation (albeit a very short one) to Newport RI and staying at the very fancy Castle Hill Inn. I’ll be with my husband and 2 toddlers, so won’t be eating anywhere glamorous, but would like to look chic for the 3 days we’re there anyway. Suggestions? I do have one HH nap dress which I figured I could wear one day (unless you’re telling me they’re so over) but need at least two other daytime outfits and maybe one cuter dinner outfit. I’m an hourglassy size 8/10 with a bit of a lower tummy pooch so nothing bodycon in that area. TIA!
Anonymous
A nap dress is perfect for that trip!
Anon
Yeah I’m not a fan of nap dresses but I think they were invented for trips like this.
Cat
+2 :)
Anon
I just did a similar trip to another coastal NE city and I was happiest in dresses with cute sneakers. Everything else I packed went unworn. My current sneakers of choice are white soludos.
AIMS
Girls of a Certain Age (dot com) has a few good round ups of dresses that would be perfect for this sort of thing. Inspired, I’ve been debating a caftan from Emerson Fry for a similar-ish fancy resort vacation coming up.
https://emersonfry.com/products/daughters-caftan-pink?variant=42331837989112
Biden is also having a huge sale now; I placed a big order last night & feel like more than a few things could work well for you. I like the sneakers idea but also would do metallic or white birks or neutral espadrilles. For some reason, I hate laces in summer.
AIMS
Oh and add a cute straw hat. I have the “packable straw hat” from J Crew and it makes everything look better.
AIMS
Obviously I meant BODEN is having a sale.
Vicky Austin
Autocorrect of Boden to Biden has me on the floor laughing.
Anon
Look at the other Emerson Fry India collection dresses – I think they’re cuter than the caftans and same lovely light material.
Anonymous
Hi! I’m about the same size with two toddlers. It’s hard to find stuff that works with kids and looks good!
I would check the dresses at Faherty, Everlane and Madewell, they have some on sale right now. I gravitate toward linens and nice fabrics like that.
I also recently bought a white jean skirt, which is sort of impractical but also looks a lot sharper than normal denim. I’ve been wearing it with solid t-shirts and also a gingham shirt. It’s from J crew and was very on sale.
Anon
Thanks so much, all!
anon
I have white-ish granite countertops that have some stains. What kind of professional do I call to remove these?
AIMS
No idea but have you try Mr Clean Magic Eraser? I have been able to get so many old stubborn stains this way.
Anonymous
For those who’ve purchased a home, what are some small changes you made to modernize it and make it yours?
DH and I are looking to buy a town house. Unless it’s absolutely move in ready, we expect we’d paint the walls and shampoo or change out the carpets depending on how much carpet there is. We doubt that we’d gut renovate kitchens or bathrooms right away having spent so much money buying and with a TH you can’t really make structural changes. What are some little changes that can be made to update a place esp. with regard to fixtures that can be swapped out easily? IDK why but I keep thinking door knobs. Most places we’ve seen have interior doors with those brass looking round knobs from the 80s, whereas our apartment has longer door handles in a not gold color which look so much nicer. DH thinks there are can “bigger” upgrades as we have a few thousand to play with but not sure what is most impactful.
Vicky Austin
Paint, hardware, light fixtures. Touching up the baseboards in our house also really made a difference.
AIMS
+1. We also got a lot of bang for our buck updating bathroom lights and medicine cabinets. It was pretty easy to change and makes everything look cleaner and more contemporary. You can also upgrade the knobs on cabinets, or just replace the counter tops, for example.
Unless floors are in great shape, I think you can also have those polished (much easier to do before you move in). One more item – if you need to add plugs anywhere or add lighting, that’s another project.
helloanon
+1 to all of this, plus window coverings.
Anon
A big statement chandelier or lighting goes a long way, so does wallpaper and non-beige color choices.
LadyB
Kitchen backsplash can completely change the look of the entire kitchen. Depending on how big the kitchen is and what materials you use, can be swapped for $1,000-3,000. New light fixtures, bath fixtures, and paint go a long way!
Anon
I would absolutely replace carpet. It’s inexpensive to do and has a big impact on making the place feel new. The only carpet I wouldn’t replace is carpet that was installed specifically for staging.
I agree with fresh paint everywhere (unless recently done for staging) and new cabinet hardware. I personally don’t like a lot of fussy stuff on the walls, but if you have a big blank wall in your living area that makes the place feel a bit empty, I think it could be a fun first six months kind of project to visit all the local art galleries, open studios, coffee houses with guest artwork, etc and find something that really speaks to you. It will be so much more special this way.
When I got my current house one of my friends came over and said “it’s going to be so great once you decorate it!” And it WAS decorated! Or as much as I was ever going to decorate. My friend has fake flowers and fake fruit everywhere, and an actual mural painted on a wall in her house, and that would drive me crazy. We all have different ideas of what “done” is, but I would say take your time. It will become homey over time.
Anon
Redoing countertops and backsplashes can do a LOT to update a kitchen, and can be suprisingly affordable. I’m in a M-HCOL city and replacing countertops (materials and labor) came in around $4k, which isn’t chump change but is far below redoing a whole kitchen. You can also reface cabinets for much less than buying new cabinets. Changing out floors and updating outdoor areas can also make a big difference and, with the exception of installing wood floors, you can easily do it yourself, even with no experience.
Anonymous
I haven’t been dating in years, and I reconnected with a dude from a few years ago. We met up and I thought it went really well, and then he texted me next day, and I thought it was promising (and normally I lean towards interpreting as rejection). He even mentioned the movie we had been watching (we had ended the night by being like oh you should come back and finish it and he had been like I just might – he had also said he had a really nice time and was glad we had reconnected, and he mentioned he’s in my neighborhood all the time at his gym). We didn’t hook up but we did do a lot of like.. snuggling / groping on the couch (so it seemed like he’s still attracted to me), and at the end of the night, we gave each other a *really* long, tight hug, and then he gave me a quick smooch. Anyway, I responded to his message (saying I also had fun and that I’d like to see him again – note that he didn’t explicitly say he wanted to see me again), but he hasn’t even bothered to read the message, a day later.
I knew dating was terrible and have virtually no interest in it, but damn I really like this guy (there’s a reason I reconnected with him)… would have been dope if this worked out. I’m not going to get too intense and start texting him a bunch (that’s how I scared him off last time). But give it to me straight, ladies, does your instinct say I’m never hearing from him again? Not reading my message for more than a day makes me think he’s not interested. I’m so lost.. what on earth was the long, close hug about? Was it a goodbye, never seeing you again hug? But if that’s the case, why the smooch? Ugh, gonna do my best not to let this drive me nuts and keep him off my mind. Just REALLY would like to hear from him again and I want to know if I’m being delusional.
Vicky Austin
This may be too simple a read of the situation, but anyone I “scared off” by showing interest would not be someone I gave a second chance to.
Anon
+1
Interested men pursue, disinterested men do not. You deserve someone who’s crazy about you.
Anonymous
He likes you. He likes hanging with you and would very much like to bang. But he doesn’t particularly care about you.
Anonymous
I VERY clearly gave a window for him to bang though. Like he left because it was an hour past when he normally goes to sleep, and I was like “well, you’re welcome to sleep over here, we could go finish the movie in my room” (extremely subtle, right?), after we had just spent an hour watching a movie with me in his lap and very much groping each other. I honestly thought it was going to be just a hookup session… *he’s* the one that ultimately made it feel like more of a date. I don’t understand what happened at all.
Anonymous
He had to get home to his gf.
Emma
Ugh, that’s rough. Hugs to you!! I think it’s likely you will hear from him again, and probably have an opportunity for another date. BUT, I’m a big believer that if a guy wants to, they will. You can take cues that they’re not turbo-charge interested at face-value. You shouldn’t have to worry about “texting too much” scaring someone away if it’s the guy for you. It should be easy.
Something I’ve also learned is that people will do things like hugs/warm comments etc without them having any real meaning. Some people are charismatic and connect easily. Some people like to be liked. Some guys feel very strongly in a moment that they’re having a good time and act accordingly, but the next day kind of forget about it / don’t have it top of mind. I once had a guy tell me he loved me and had never felt anything like this before with anyone, and then the next day say “eh I’m not sure, I think I just felt that in the moment.” People are weird!
My advice would be to try your best not to get invested in guys until they’ve clearly communicated to you that they’re very interested. It sucks (and sounds regressive) but it makes it a lot easier to let them chase. If you’re not proactively texting them, you can discern their feelings more easily and (most importantly) sit back and relax and let them do the work.
If this isn’t the guy for you, he isn’t the guy for you and it’s best to move on as quickly as possible and learn this earlier rather than later. The absolute worst trap you can fall into is over-analyzing his behavior or trying to make sense of things, or try to game your behavior to get him to magically be into you. It’s more simple than that: he’s either into you or not, and if he is, it will be easy and you will know.
Anonymous
All excellent advice! I def fell into the trap three years ago of 1) deciding he was “the one” and being way, way too intense, and 2) reading into EVERYTHING too much. So this time I am doing my absolute best to play it easy, breezy and to actually *be* easy, breezy… I guess what’s hard about this situation is there were so many signs he *is* interested, and even the last text from him seemed like he was interested (it was prompt, it was kinda long, it was all good things). I guess you’re right though, someone can feel one way at one moment and different later.. and the only real sign of whether he’s interested that matters is whether he actually asks to see me again (I made it clear I enjoyed hanging out and would like to see him again, so he def knows the ball is in his court).
Anon
You can’t will him into anything. My biggest advice as someone who has been dating forever and who has had to learn A LOT, is to take everything at face value. Do not try to figure out what he is thinking or feeling. You don’t know. He said what he said and he did what he did in the moment and that’s that.
If I was your friend, I would tell you to drop this guy like a hot potato. But since I suspect that isn’t going to happen, I recommend one more text along the lines of asking for what you want “Joe, I really enjoyed reconnecting and am interested in exploring this more to see if there is any long term potential. Is this something you are interested in?” No response in 24 hrs BYE! Then block his number so you cannot be tempted to reconnect again. Your time is worth more than this.
Anonymous
Everything in your first paragraph… I wish I’d figured out so much sooner. You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what a guy is thinking. It’s so not worth the emotional energy.
Monday
I agree on taking things at face value. He is not sitting around trying to plot out what you must be thinking; don’t do that for him.
I agree that if you insist on contacting him again, be 100% uncool and name your goal, as outlined by 12:37. If you are repelled by this suggestion because you know he’s going to do the whole “oooh needy woman is scaring me” thing, skip this step and go straight to blocking him. Continuing to try to suss him out is just going to waste more of your energy.
Anonymous
I would give that same advice to a friend too, but I think I’d genuinely have fun being FWBs (or even just friends – no, really) with this person. So I don’t want to put any sort of ultimatum or pressure on him.
Anon
If you want to be FWBs that’s great! But understand that FWBs are not going to text you regularly, or when you want them to, or respond in a way that indicates they want to treat you like they are in a relationship with you. The he didn’t even read my text thing is not what I would be thinking about a FWB. You may need to readjust your expectations of what you’re going to get from a FWB.
Anonymous
Dang, you’re 100% right and this is excellent advice! Thank you.
Anonymous
I think you made the right decision not to sleep with him. Imagine how much worse you would feel right now. It sounds like he was expecting it, was disappointed it didn’t happen, and is still sort of keeping the door open for that but isn’t actually interested in dating you. I’m sorry.
Anonymous
Huh. I would wish that I had slept with him. But I’m not super emotional about such things.
Anonymous
Hey, original Anonymous here… I think you’re responding on wrong thread, 1:33 PM Anonymous. That said, my answer isn’t super different… I absolutely gave him window to sleep together and idk why he didn’t take me up on it.
Anonymous
Nope. I meant what I said. If I wasn’t going to see him again, I’d wish I had at least gotten something out of it. That’s just me.
Anonymous
Whoops, sorry 1:33 PM Anonymous. I read it was “I wish I would have slept with him”, so I thought you were continuing discussion about your own situation. Yep, agreed.. I would have liked to have slept with him, haha. XD
Anonymous
Am I correctly reading this that you sent him a message Sunday night or yesterday? As in, the day he hasn’t read the message was the 4th of July and therefore a holiday? If so, I wouldn’t worry about it at all. I mean, personally I wouldn’t think anything of taking more than a day to respond on a regular day because I too am bad about checking messages, but definitely wouldn’t worry about it on a holiday.
Anonymous
Let’s not make excuses for men who are “just bad at texting” – he’s not that into you. The fact that it was a party holiday makes it worse not better, he was probably texting friends and making plans and coordinating with people all day. It’s not like it was Christmas where maybe he was focused on his parents and niblings and left his phone in his childhood bedroom.
Anonymous
Original OP here. This is my instinct too, particularly since he told me he didn’t have exciting plans for Fourth of July (although he didn’t say *no* plans). The main reason though, is that this is via WhatsApp (so there’s read receipts), and he hasn’t even bothered to read my reply or open the app (it’s now been 24 hours since I messaged). But everything else about the situation makes me think I *should* hear back from him, and I am not someone who is generally optimistic about such things.
Anonymous
Yeah. I am so surprised by the other responses here. Wait and see. I text like 20 different people over the course of 48 hours. Sometimes I am texting multiple people at the same time and sometimes I put my phone down and don’t look at it for hours (e.g., if I am at dinner with a friend or in a meeting). That I miss one text that comes in when I am doing something else, esp. if I am doing a holiday activity where I am not looking at my phone constantly, would be no indication at all as to how I feel about someone. And if say six people text after you, I won’t even see that there is an unread message.
Anonymous
Well, I really hope this is right!
Cat
Ha, this is me. Espec if I set my phone down while the screen was still on, I miss the small notification that appears at the top of an awake screen, and so I don’t get the notification on my lock-screen when it wakes up.
Anonymous
If I just had an awesome night with someone and I was excited about him, I wouldn’t miss his text. I would be excited to hear from him!
Anonymous
Right? And he hasn’t pulled open WhatsApp, so presumably it’s not that it’s buried under a bunch of others.
Oh well, I think there’s some truth in just about everyone’s responses, and I just need to let it all go, go with the flow, and let it develop organically (or not, if he’s not interested and I never hear from him again).
Anonymous
You’re not delusional, he just isn’t going to meet your needs. Remember, you’re not needy, you have needs in terms of what you want from a relationship. There’s someone out there who will be thrilled, not scared off, by your texting.
Anon
I’d try to let go of hanging onto every interaction and reading into them. Easier said than done, of course. Best way to do it is date a bunch of other people too or at least entertain the prospect. One unanswered text in 24 hours could have so many reasons behind it ranging from disinterested to dealing with an emergency. You’ll make yourself crazy trying to read into it and putting all your eggs in that basket.
Anon
He’s a f*ck boy and he wanted to give you juuuust enough attention so that you’d start chasing him again and feed his ego and allow him to reject yiu. Again.
MOVE ON from this douchebag
Anonymous
Damn, this is probably the real answer. Wouldn’t he have taken window to bang me though? We banged on each of our previous dates in the past though, and this wasn’t even a date (I don’t think either of us knew *what* it was).. I thought it was going to be a hookup session, honestly. It was very clear I was down to bang. And he was groping my butt and stuff under my skirt while we were watching movie, so clearly he wasn’t *not* not attracted to me? I truly am puzzled by this one. (And the long, tight hug! Wtf…)
Amy
Seriously. Any guy who “cuddles” and “gropes” and hangs out with you for hours and DOESN’T go for sex that is clearly on offer is just in it for attention/validation. He’s not actually attracted to you. Sry.
Anonymous
Dang. Hard to hear, but could very well be true.
Emma
Ugh, that’s rough. Hugs to you!! I think it’s likely you will hear from him again, and probably have an opportunity for another date. BUT, I’m a big believer that if a guy wants to, they will. You can take cues that they’re not turbo-charge interested at face-value. You shouldn’t have to worry about “texting too much” scaring someone away if it’s the guy for you. It should be easy.
Something I’ve also learned is that people will do things like hugs/warm comments etc without them having any real meaning. Some people are charismatic and connect easily. Some people like to be liked. Some guys feel very strongly in a moment that they’re having a good time and act accordingly, but the next day kind of forget about it / don’t have it top of mind. I once had a guy tell me he loved me and had never felt anything like this before with anyone, and then the next day say “eh I’m not sure, I think I just felt that in the moment.” People are weird!
My advice would be to try your best not to get invested in guys until they’ve clearly communicated to you that they’re very interested. It sucks (and sounds regressive) but it makes it a lot easier to let them chase. If you’re not proactively texting them, you can discern their feelings more easily and (most importantly) sit back and relax and let them do the work.
If this isn’t the guy for you, he isn’t the guy for you and it’s best to move on as quickly as possible and learn this earlier rather than later. The absolute worst trap you can fall into is over-analyzing his behavior or trying to make sense of things, or try to game your behavior to get him to magically be into you. It’s more simple than that: he’s either into you or not, and if he is, it will be easy and you will know.
More Sleep Would Be Nice
Hi – low stakes/fun question – does anyone have any suggestions for fun card/board games for 90+ year old family members? Want to take something “fun” to do with my grandmother when I go visit her at my Uncle and Aunt’s home.
Anon8
The family feud board game was a big hit with my family, including my 90 year old grandma. Grandma also plays ticket to ride.
Anonymous
The family feud board game was a big hit with my family, including my 90 year old grandma. Grandma also plays ticket to ride.
Anon
We like Sequence.
FormerlyPhilly
Just got back from a trip and these were so fun to play with my elders:
Bingo (we had the bingo ball cage thingy to draw the numbers which made it enjoyable)
Trivial Pursuit family edition
Wheel of Fortune
Ticket to Ride
Clue
Pandemic (a little too close for comfort, but was a hit)
Anon
Mahjong is fun
Anon
I wish there was a dating app where you could write real-world recommendations for your friends. I’ve spent a lot of time lately with my friends who are late 30s/early 40s and know their time is running out to start a family and my heart breaks for them. I so hope they find someone.
(Likewise, I wish it was ok to declare unvarnished intentions on the apps – “just divorced, just looking for fun” or “spent 3 years with the wrong guy and am kicking myself; want to get married and start a family asap” or “can’t wait to be a little league dad” so that everyone could be on the same page and my dear friends wouldn’t waste their time.)
helloanon
You totally can write this kind of thing in your app profile! I appreciate it when guys are clear that they’re just looking for something casual or newly divorced and re-entering the market or whatever.
Anon
I mean, I have absolutely written my intentions on a dating app without any glossing. I don’t eff around with F boys or men who don’t want what I want and your friends shouldn’t be afraid to take this approach either. I hate game playing and there are absolutely men out there who hate it too (I have dated a couple and am dating one right now who I adore).
Anon
Also, there is no rule that says your friends can’t add a statement from you in their profile. I have seen it done in a very endearing way on men’s profiles before. There are no rules other than don’t be an a-hole IMO.
Anon
You can absolutely say what you want, I did and so did my now husband. And no, no one is going to date someone off a letter of recommendation. It’s a sweet sentiment but an individualized issue.
Anon
I did write that in my profile. Recently divorced, not looking for a husband.
I was very popular on the dating app.
Of course I did meet my next/current husband, but the universe has a way of playing tricks on us like that.
Anon
Uhh you absolutely should write your intentions in your dating app profile!