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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Stretch Twill Pleated Short-Sleeve Shirt

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A woman wearing black pants and a dark pink pleated top

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This pleated top from Quince has tons of great reviews, and the color is perfect for the summer-to-fall transition.

I’m always in the market for a blouse that can be worn without a sweater or blazer on top and still serve as half of a complete outfit. The gorgeous pleating on this one looks sophisticated and would pair beautifully with trousers or a skirt. 

The top is $50 at Quince and comes in sizes XS-XL. 

Sales of note for 9/11:

302 Comments

  1. Thanks for the sale round up! I can’t tell you how much money you have saved me by tracking the Talbots sales.

  2. Where are you getting c*cktail tables? I’d love a dull (not shiny) metal (since I guess we can’t get real wood in new things in 2026) and all metal or a stone / agate landing spot for the drink in case it sweats (I have coasters but don’t want to be nervous when company comes over).

      1. I see tons of huge dark wood TV armoires that no one wants. As people with good things downsize, the kids take the good Craftique (etc.) pieces and all that’s left are stuff that is huge and heavy. Plus, maybe drink tables are new things? I don’t recall my family having that (they had side tables for generations that my great grandfather made for all of his 8 kids and their kids), but I feel that they are both very handy and maybe a newish sort of item.

        1. I’m genuinely convinced people here just google ‘antiques near me’ and then give up, drink tables have been around forever and I’ve seen them at literally every antique mall I’ve ever been to, though admittedly I’ve only been antiquing in about 20 states.

          2. People don’t actually want the good stuff, they just want the facsimile of something good that they can order online.

    6. I’ve been eyeing the Stissing Martini Table from Roseland USA… I have their dining table and chairs and LOVE the quality and responsiveness of the company when we had an issue

  3. For those of you who are taking GLP-1s in part for anti-inflammatory reasons, can you tell me more about what’s happened since in terms of how you feel, lab work, etc? I’m just barely into the obese category but have chronic inflammation (on the more sensitive C-reactive protein test) that is likely due to my well-controlled autoimmune disorder. I’m considering whether the other health benefits might tip the scale into trying these medications. Cost is the major barrier. Since all my other lab work is great (cholesterol, BP, all of it) and I’m active and enjoying life, it’s harder to make the case to myself that it’s an “investment” even though it probably is! It’s just hard to afford everything in our lives right now, even with a modest lifestyle. Anyway, would welcome thoughts.

    1. My husband is on tirzepatide for sleep apnea and it’s made a huge difference. Within 2 weeks his snoring was dramatically reduced, and while he’s lost some weight the sleep apnea / inflammation benefits have been huge.

      I’ve been on a low dose of compounded semaglutide for a year and a half. Lost 30 lbs the first year and gained back about 10, though a lot of that was more strength training and water retention that goes with it. I think I look better than I did 5 lbs lighter, now that I have more muscle.

    2. I haven’t tried this yet. But a lot of the people who are taking GLP1s only for inflammation are microdosing and (say they are) still getting the desired benefits. So that can really help with costs.

        1. It’s not going to work for everyone, some people are nonresponders, which is too bad.

      2. Do you have more insight? I don’t really have weight to lose and I LOVE food, but I’ve tried basically all anti-inflammatories and other lifestyle and pharmaceutical options for my chronic condition so I’m considering GLP1 but I think it will make me sad not being able to eat all the snacks and ruining my digestive system thats like clockwork.

        1. have you tried nicotine? a nurse was just telling me that nicotine is actually an anti-inflammatory and sometimes people are given nicotine patches. (zero memory of how this came up since it was at the eye doctor…)

          1. Do not give yourself a nicotine addiction through nicotine patches. I wonder what your nurse thinks about vaccinations.

    4. Best money you’ll ever spend, inflammation reduces to goes away in weeks even before weight loss. Also, to beat a dead horse, you’ll save money on food and make up the cost pretty easily. If you get it online, you’re talking $250/mo to start and maybe stay and a little more if you need to go up in strength. That’s cutting out a few coffees and you’ll do that naturally on this anyway. In your shoes I’d cut everything else out spend wise before I didn’t do this. You won’t regret it.

      1. We don’t have a $250+/month coffee budget! It would be a significant expense for us and we’re already cutting back on a lot. My husband is already on Zepbound (direct pay) and his dose, which isn’t the highest, is somewhere in the 300-400s now. We certainly haven’t seen that high of savings on food, so that’s part of the reason I’m skeptical. But your point is taken nonetheless.

      2. Starting to believe you’re an AI bot deployed by some drug manufacturer to promote GLP-1s here. In what universe is “cutting out a few coffees” going to save you $250/month.

        1. Look friends, a Starbucks latte is close to $10 these days and it’s a figure of speech. I can easily find $250 to save in the drips of daily living over the course of a month. Coffee here, snack there, that thing you don’t really need at the grocery store or from Target, etc.

          1. You’re… you’re buying $10 coffees almost daily?

            my friend, you are the rich who need to be taxed more.

          2. It’s a figure.of.speech. Please stop being so willingly dense and exhausting. (and I’m not even Anon at 10:46)

          4. Your poor communication isn’t a figure of speech. It’s obvious you were literally referring to a few coffees because you said she’d do that anyways. To the extent that you were trying to convey what you said the second time around, which is that $250 can easily be saved by cutting out small unnecessary purchases, “[t]hat’s cutting out a few coffees and you’ll do that naturally on this anyway” does not convey this concept when when you try to consider it as a “figure of speech.” Why? Because we can all easily estimate how much a few coffees actually cost and it’s no where close to $250. It is extremely easy to cut out “a few coffees,” but it is not that nearly easy for most people to find an extra $250 in their budget every month. I assume that if OP thought it was going to be easy for her to cover if she was a bit more mindful about target runs she wouldn’t be concerned about the cost.

          5. I think the point you’re making is that $250/month is not really a large amount of money for you – you can afford it by cutting “wants” and not even “wants” you’d miss that much.

            $250/month *is* a lot of money for me – and per the OP is a lot for her too. For example, I could free up $250/month by cutting my entire exercise and hobby budget (ie rec center membership; gas to trailheads; annual state & national parks passes; exercise clothes; running shoes; other gear; and ski pass). But that’s a lot of well-being (physical and mental!) to cut from my daily life! It’s not unreasonable for OP to be asking if it’s “worth it”, if they’re thinking about similar tradeoffs!

          7. OP here and that’s exactly it. We’ve already cut out the obvious things like the random Target doodads and the Starbucks – any further cuts and we’ve looking at potentially worse impacts on my health and wellness.

          8. Anon at 11:56, if you’re talking to me at 11:40, you’d do well to re-read the comment. I did not say it was difficult for *me* to cut $250 of spending, nor that I would even need to if I wanted or needed a GLP-1.

          9. I’m pretty neutral towards GLP1s, but I would definitely feel $250/month in my budget and couldn’t make it up by cutting out little luxuries. We’re very comfortable financially but the last time I got Starbucks was when they sent me the coupon for the free birthday drink and my birthday is in April. And I don’t think our grocery bills would go way down even if my food consumption went down. Most of our grocery spending is fruit for our kids and meat for my gym addict husband. I tend to eat pretty cheap food.

          10. We have already cut every unnecessary expense to make up for the fact that prices have skyrocketed but our wages have not even kept pace with inflation. I don’t know where we would cut $250 or more a month if one of us wanted to go on an expensive lifetime drug. And the idea that you could make up the savings in food costs is ridiculous. I already eat an appetizer instead of a full dinner and eat tiny portions at home. Maybe if you are obese and cutting back from 5,000 calories a day to 1,500? But most women in midlife have already cut back their eating.

      3. With groceries costing what they cost lately, I have wondered if GLP1s would pay for themselves if it meant I could eat any staple grain at all (vs. very low carb diet indefinitely; I’m getting so tired of tofu and sardines).

      4. This idea that you’ll save money on food is bizarre to me. Maybe that would be true if you’re living alone, but if you’re living with other human beings who are on regular diets, I cannot see how that would result in much, if any, savings.

        1. Anyone cutting back food is going to reduce the overall quantity you buy. This is not hard to understand.

        2. If you think that your individual consumption makes little difference in your household’s food budget, you are underestimating how much you eat.

        3. Well you do have to actually buy less and commit to eating less. It doesn’t take an excess of imagination to figure out how that works.

    5. How high is your CRP? And what does the specialist who manages your autoimmune disorder think?

      1. Not that high – between 5-6.5. That’s why I’m on the fence! I’m obese but not very, inflamed but not very, etc. If my insurance covered this I would do it without question because I do think inflammation (and the higher cancer risk that my disease carries) is worth tackling, but the money…

        1. I just cannot imagine not spending money on something that is the most critical part of your health.

          2. Sure you can’t, you obviously lack critical thinking and reading comprehension skills.

          4. Not the OP, but I can say, I would like to be ~15 lbs lighter and it would be healthy for me to be ~15 lbs lighter. But glps dont make sense for me because the things I would have to cut to budget for it are more important than the 15lbs, and I think I’m coming from a similar situation to you – it wouldn’t be cutting things I wouldn’t miss (like “oh, skip a starbucks occasionally and do you really need 5 different streaming services?”), and it wouldn’t be cutting absolute necessities (like, skipping the electric bill or not being able to make rent); but it would be cutting the luxuries that I really value & make a difference in my daily life, and I think are probably more important to my health than the weight. (Things like active hobbies, including social ones like rec sports, things I get a lot of joy out of, like taking care of my garden, trips to see family I love who won’t be around long, etc).

            If you’ve found it so helpful for inflammation that you *would* be willing to make the kind of tradeoffs above, I’d bet that’d be really helpful information for the OP!

          5. She’s talking about 40lbs not 15 and yes, it essentially cured inflammation for me. Absolutely something I’d figure out how to fund.

          6. what type of inflammation did you have that it cured? Are you on immunosuppressants for autoimmune disease?

        2. What about both you and your husband going on compound? The savings from brand could pay for your meds, especially if you microdose.

          It has been life changing for me, I consider it an inflammation medication with a side effect of weight loss. But only you can decide if it’s worth it.

    6. I’m curious about this too because my CRP and ESR are crazy high with no discernible cause (I’ve been through tons of testing).

      1. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Sometimes it’s one of the things they already tested you for.

    7. I have no personal experience but my mother (who did/does not need to lose weight) went on them on the recommendation of her doctor and it resulted in a substantial improvement in her quality of life (and a marked decrease in the amount of NSAIDs she was taking, as well as allowing her to stop another medication).

      My suggestion would be to talk to your medical team. If they think it might help, you can try and then decide for yourself after three months whether it is worth the money. There is no way of knowing without trying because it is so individual.

        1. I think I will talk to the doctor for sure. I at least want to fully understand their clinical recommendations before I decide how or if to handle the cost. I’m just 4 lbs away from being not obese, though, so I’m really not that worried about that side of things. I’d certainly look better 40 lbs less but tbh, it’s not a big motivation for me at this stage in my life.

          1. Being that close to the line is definitely a health issue and yes, those 40lbs will make a world of difference to your overall health and how you feel.

          2. Maybe – I already feel pretty good (I’m able to do all the things I love to do in the outdoors and with my family). The thought of feeling even better is enticing, I’ll admit (maybe I don’t know what I don’t know), but will it be worth the price?

    8. What sort of doctors are telling people they have “inflammation?” I think it’s on a level with talking about “toxins” without actually defining what the toxins are. Inflammation is not always bad, it’s how your body fights pathogens! Plus I am skeptical about anyone trying to sell people on an “inflammation panel” or whatnot. C reactive protein has specific utility for cardiac issues, but I’m not sure how relevant it is for other things.

      Inflammation is apparently the new balance your hormones is the new you need to detox.

      2. If you don’t even know the relevance of CRP to other things beyond cardiac issues, you aren’t in a position to soapbox about how wellness influencers discuss inflammation.

        1. Yes, CRP is relevant to some potentially very serious conditions (pancreatitis, autoimmune diseases, serious infections). If you have CRP levels that might be indicative of having one of these conditions, you should treat the condition, not take GLP1s.

          Just saying one has “inflammation” makes no sense.

          1. A lot of people with autoimmune disease experience pain and fatigue not addressed by their immune therapy. There are piles of studies on this. Some of the studies are notoriously crappy (“maybe they’re depressed about having a chronic condition and that’s why!”). Others point to specific types of inflammation that are continuing despite treatment.

            It’s one of the things people try LDN for, with varied results. If someone can benefit from GLP1s anyway and it will also treat this, it could be life changing in terms of energy and pain — day to day quality of life.

          3. There really aren’t that many approaches to this that people have good outcomes with, cheap or expensive. (If you’re thinking of exercise or psych meds, please get out.)

    9. I have multiple autoimmune disorders, including rheumatoid arthritis. They aren’t well controlled like yours. But no – my doctors are not recommending GLP-1s for this in folks who are not obese and don’t have other indications. So far their patients who are taking it for diabetes/obesity are feeling better in general, but it doesn’t seem to correlate with better autoimmune disease control so far. But I’m sure studies will be done.

      It sounds like your disease and inflammation is well controlled. In your scenario, I would not start GLP-1 to try to improve your auto-immune disease. Your CRP level is excellent and is almost normal. You’ve already won that game. But if you are obese, there are lots of long term health complications from that – even if your other lab work is great. So that should be the conversation with your doctor.

      1. I have noticed that some of the people reporting benefit have autoimmune or inflammatory conditions not currently treated with immune therapies at all. So I wonder if it’s filling a gap.

        1. What does this mean? If you don’t need treatment for your autoimmune disease because it is so well controlled, then why would you pay thousands of dollars a year for a “treatment” that has no proof it would work. And you are symptom free. It makes no sense. So you are treating a psychological concern?

          1. I didn’t mean that the conditions weren’t being treated because an individual patient feels fine; I mean that they have specific conditions that categorically have no indicated immune therapies at all.

            The ongoing immune attack isn’t benign, but the risk/reward calculus still doesn’t favor all the risks of steroids or the costs and risks of a maintenance biologic. Sometimes someone has a condition where research shows IVIG can help, but it’s expensive and in short supply, so it’s reserved for worse conditions, but that doesn’t make the person “symptom free”!

          2. There are a lot more treatments than steroids, biologics and IVIG, which I think you know. Your vague posts are not helpful, as most posting on this thread are talking about vague “inflammation”, which is a vague and misleading term. But that’s the internet for you.

          3. Of course I know that e.g. taking thyroid meds for Hashimoto’s is a treatment. But you know that it’s not an immune therapy, and that even if the goal is to flare down the autoimmune attack and slow the destruction of the thyroid, that doesn’t always happen. There is an entire alt med industry around just this one condition.

    10. Do some research as opposed to the anecdotal comments here. Like a quick Google. I was watching a YouTube video the other night with a proper MD citing recent studies fromcredible journals. (More by curiousity–losing weight has been the driver for me but I experienced a ton of joint pain relief. So much so that I can tell when I need to go up a dose mostly by the return of pain.) Anyway, you’ll learn that not all GLPs are acting the same with inflammation (Ozempic vs. Zepbound, etc.) and that certain cells types are more likely to react than others. So, for example, inflammation in the gut may be affected more than say, inflammation in the fingers. And a lot had to do with the reason for inflammation as well. Anyway, it was really interesting and they gave percentages that were being attributed to more than just weight loss (because obesity itself contributes to inflammation). I wish I had the link to the video I saw, but I’m sure you’ll find a similar discussion. I will also caution on cost. The smaller doses are less expensive, and you tend to need to go up to get the same effects over time. I also would have the discussion with an actual doctor relating to the type of inflammation that is most problematic for you. There may be existing drugs that would have more benefit that would be covered.

      1. CN you recall the doctor’s name? The medical or research journal? I have family whom I would like to share this with about the difference in medication types and medicine choices. TIA.

    11. I would talk to your doctor about the earlier variant if glp-1s, liraglutide, to see if it would make a difference for inflammation and be cheaper. I believe it shows lower weight loss and is a daily shot, which is why it’s fallen out of fashion with the new developments. I don’t know about its impact on inflammation. Not a doctor!

  4. I just ordered some new underwear. I did not detect from the pictures, on human models, that it would be (on me) a translucent women’s version tighty-whities. IMO, the side seams were moved more towards the side / femur area vs the true side? Anatomical references are failing me. But somehow I want to try again because the goal is always cuteness, even from something that just I see (plus anyone in the ladies’ room at the gym). I was looking forward to a refresh and now I’m hoping I can ruin it quickly and find a better no-VPL replacement.

    2. Boy briefs are a style. I don’t think there is any rule that pictures have to depict the same item sold (one of the hazards of shopping online). Head to the mall next time.

      1. Of course pictures have to depict the actual item being sold. Otherwise it’s false advertising.

        1. No, it just has to be “close enough,” unless it’s an individual item that is used. If you pay attention, you’ll see that the photographs of the items being sold are often altered at a minimum.

    3. That might be helpful for avoiding VPL, since the seams are in an area where the fabric tends to be less stressed vs. the edge of the hip?

  5. I need to recarpet my finished basement, which is where we watch TV, and I am looking for any advice or tips. I am considering a beige or greige tone. Do I take a sample of the current one and head into a carpet store? Anything I should consider? The stairs are also carpeted but I’m not changing that carpet – will that look weird?

    1. I would try to change the stairs if you can. I think it’ll look weird if you don’t. Bring home samples and see how they look in your lighting. Be very clear with yourself about what you’re looking for. Durability? Softness/plushness?

    2. Take a sample of whatever finishes are staying so you can coordinate colors. Warmth matters more than actual colors. Like, if you have a cool gray on the stairs, a warm beige on the floor is going to look weird.

    3. See Marcia Kallim’s site for info on undertones in beige colors.

      How much the transition from the old carpet color on the stairs to the new carpet color matters is more of a “how much does it matter to you” question. Is this a high-end house where you need to get the finishes right, including the way to the carpet in the basement correlates with the carpet on the basement stairs? Or is this “just a basement,” and you’re a family that doesn’t need a carefully considered transition from stair carpet to basement floor carpet.

    4. I’m a fan of light-ish low pile carpet in the basement. If there are bugs, droppings, or water stains you want to spot them ASAP. I agree with the the other commenter to focus on warm vs cool rather than color.

      1. This. Also, no reason to be especially boring here – even if it’s just where you watch TV, there are plenty of carpets with low pile and interesting patterns. I’d do that before making a snoozy room, it doesn’t cost more to look better.

    5. If durability is your primary concern and you’re not looking for anything particularly fancy or unusual, I would also look at hardware stores like Home Depot when you’re pricing options. We got our basement carpet there and it’s been going strong for over 10 years and was significantly cheaper than the carpet store options.

      1. I just realized I should have been more specific. While they will have a whole section of carpet options like a carpet store, they will also have several big rolls of very reasonable carpet along one side. That’s what we went with.

    6. is there a reason you’re going with carpet? I have hade enough minor water events in my basement over the years that I’m committed to hard floor + area rugs. we have “luxury vinyl plank” and are very happy with it. bonus we can swap rugs with less hassle and expense than carpet, if needed.

      1. Carpet in a basement seems gross to me. I am not a fan of LVP in general, but basements are exactly what it for.

  6. IANAL. At the risk of enraging the Clancy silencing crowd here, I need to ask what was Kevin Reddington’s reputation before this trial?

    2. “Clancy silencing crowd” is one way to put it. “Gross, rubbernecking voyeurs” is another. If you “need” to ask this, Google is your friend.

      1. Disagree. This trial has highlighted how very bad crisis and chronic mental healthcare is in this country. If a relatively well-off woman who says she is suicidal is turned away because she didn’t seem to list things out in the proper planning way, what hope is there for any of us?

        I think that a lot of the doctors looked like idiots, which isn’t reassuring to those of us who think of them as top-level providers who know something. I get that they have a lot of schooling. But up against something where they have to use words to tease out what someone who may be an unreliable narrator is saying they feel (so: layers of subjectivity and questionable insights), IDK how any human can make sense of that. Mental status isn’t measurable as a fundamental matter beyond things of no help here (GCS, PERRL, BGL, etc.). When a person calls out for help, we say she’s not sick enough yet and send her along.

        1. Your posts are mostly long, tangential rambles that are impossible to follow, so really not adding to the Clancy discussion anyway.

        2. That’s what gets me about this case. She asked for help. Repeatedly. Even with the resources she had, she did not get the help she truly needed. And don’t even get me started on her POS husband.

          2. The facts are so bad re medical care alone that I have no idea of her real role or agency. I would not be surprised if she were acquitted because her lawyer has really illustrated the clusterf*ck of her trying to get help before killing her children and leaving herself paralyzed in a failed suicide attempt (I still don’t know how her body temp was truly in the 80s; as a wilderness person who has done a lot of camping, that is really concerning that it happened in suburbia in the time it did). If I were a doctor or NP, I would never feel comfortable practicing in mental healthcare, especially maternal mental healthcare. It’s so severely under-resourced that it’s a liability waiting to happen.

          3. Her lawyer didn’t make up the facts. I feel like it would all be there in MyChart as a total cluster of things going sideways.

          4. It’s also made me think about my own PPD screenings. Sure, at every pedi apt with my infant I had to fill out a questionnaire, but they were 1 page, at most a dozen questions and the sheet had been photocopied a million times over that it was faded, crooked and just looked…. unserious? That is the only PPD “screening” I got after my last OB follow up at 6 weeks.

            The system failed her in so many ways, but it’s made me think about how many other women are failed because the extent of their screenings looked like mine. I definitely had undiagnosed PPD and anxiety with my first (which I can see now after having two), and I didn’t know how to ask for help. I just wanted to circle “no” for all of those questions b/c the apt was for my infant, not me (was my mindset..) and I wanted to get home and get the baby back to her nap schedule.

          5. Same re the mimeographed screening questionaire sheet. Handed to you on a clipboard with a dozen other forms (AND after you checked in on the app in advanced and were asked dozens of other items that you’re pretty sure no one looked at, like if you have food insecurity or are facing partner violence). You often are juggling the newborn with you. And you may have 15 minutes with the doctor if you are lucky, where you will have to discuss any postpartum care (like how any incisions are healing, birth control, nursing, etc., etc., all while you are sleep deprived and maybe still leaking all over). I don’t think we are approaching a serious thing in a way that is anything but reckless and giving it poor lip service. Can we not do better?

          6. I think it’s telling that her support really only comes from only one demographic and it doesn’t include many POC women.

          7. Here in USA, we could do better! There are many examples to follow from all over the world where new parents and infants are better supported.

        3. Honestly you still sound kind of naive to me. As grateful as we may be for interventions that exist, psychology and psychiatry are kind of sketchy at best (you can read about inter rater reliability, the reproducibility “crisis,” or the implications of SSRI discontinuation syndrome for decades of RCTs just to begin with).

          Read “Doing Harm” for the obstacles to getting any kind of healthcare for women (or even just “How to Talk So Doctors Will Listen”). And start anywhere for what’s been happening in healthcare since the pandemic (issues with capacity, with midlevel scope creep) or since the ACA (consolidation, time spent charting, errors in electronic medical records). I haven’t even mentioned private insurance yet.

          1. IDK why anyone outside of healthcare would know or follow any of this (I guess, until a family crisis makes us pay attention to what seems like a dumpster fire). I feel like a lot of us put a lot of trust in medicine, especially with doctors. Maybe we shouldn’t.

          2. I guess there isn’t really a reason if it hasn’t ever come up for someone in their own circles, but if the trial raised questions, there is a lot more to learn than is going to come up in this trial.

      2. Many of us here have had babies and feeling like you have no help even in a more benign and vanilla situation is a very real feeling.

        Think of the black maternal death and complication rate. That’s not made up. It’s a huge gap in care. This is another gap in care.

        1. I also will admit now that I was very afraid to be honest about how I was feeling because what I considered to be possible consequences.

          Were they going to take my baby (legit thought I had) if I said I was really struggling? Would they medicate me and make me not b-feed? Were they going to MAKE me go to therapy, and if so, there was no way I could fit that in to my schedule as it is because I’m already barely sleeping or showering… and several others in between. I decided it was better to just “suck it up.” The fear of the unknown caused me to keep it to myself. Clearly there is a VAST in between of admitting you’re struggling to taking your children from you!! But, I had no idea.

          I’d strongly like to see some sort of education before giving birth about potential ways to receive help so that when you’re in that moment, you’re not spiraling down a dark hole about seeking help because you’re already spiraling down a massive black hole on your own.

  7. As a teenager I internalized the “wearing stripes makes you look wider” messaging and now as I online shop during the work day I’m wondering . . . is that even true? Is that something people think about? Does it depend on the stripe?

    1. Like a breton stripe? I don’t think that’s true and frankly it isn’t something I particularly care about.
      Fit is the more important factor imho. In my 40’s getting a proper fit involves making sure my clothes fit my current body, that volume is intentional vs. swimming in things, my clothes aren’t uncomfortable (I’d rather size up than squeeze into a specific size), waist bands/seats are not pulling, pants and arm lengths aren’t too long/short and items hit at the proper places on my shoulder/waist/leg.

    2. I like strips above the waist (Breton tees, etc.) and vertical stripes in dresses. I don’t like stripes in pants because they look costumey or like track pants (Royal Tenenbaums).

    3. As a lover of all things striped, I will say it really depends on the stripe and the cut of the garment. I don’t find that my striped Mariner Ts make me look wider but a wide striped oversized sweater might. I find my pinstripe trouser style pants actually slimming but I bought a vertically striped skirt one time that makes me look like an out of work clown.

    4. I don’t even think it’s true? I am not slender anymore, but I love a striped top and own many. I think whether it’s flattering has more to do with the cut of the shirt than whether or not it has stripes.

    5. My hot take is that horizontal stripes are slimming and vertical stripes make you look wider. I say that because I think the eye is drawn up and down horizontal stripes, and across vertical ones, almost subconsciously counting them.

    6. I can definitely confirm that they make large chests look larger. I don’t think they have that effect on waists, though.

    7. It’s funny you say that. As a pudgy kid in the 90s (and for most of life, heyyy PCOS..), I remember reading that in the dialogue of a school-mandated chapter book. I cannot for the life of me remember the book, but maybe 5th or 6th grade, it was two sisters fighting and the older sister’s friend said you can’t wear stripes if you’re chubby, and the little sister had already either self-identified or was called chubby earlier in the book.

      I’m 41. I didn’t buy anything with horizontal stripes until I was, ohhhhh, 30? 35? The things that stick with you….

      1. Yeah it’s 100% from something like that. Maybe it’s at least time to experiment. I actually love pinstripes and the Breton tees etc mentioned above look like they would look good.

    9. As a curvy person who absorbed this message and is now much smaller, I have never liked striped pants regardless of size. But I’m a big fan of striped tops.

    10. I used to watch the original “what not to wear” and also had a healthy fear of horizontal strips thanks to Stacy and Clinton, but I’m learning that it can be more nuanced than that :)
      As others have said, I think they can. I use stripes strategically though. I’m smaller on top and I find that visually widening my top can act as a balance to my wider lower half. And I love tops with different (usually smaller) stripes up around my shoulders, as it almost acts like shoulder pads – and creates some visual interest for zoom calls when I’m just appearing as a head and shoulders.

  8. Trying again in the AM thread in case there are more responses: please hit me with all your Seoul recommendations: must eats/ must-sees/must-do’s… and the opposite also is very welcome: anything that was overhyped/you didn’t love as I will only have 3-4 days there. Thanks in advance!

    1. the only really “not worth it” thing we did was the Rainbow Bridge—apparently part of it was broken while we were there but we also weren’t that impressed? But enjoyed everything else we did, including a food tour (some of which we definitely could’ve done on our own but there were a few things we wouldn’t have otherwise tried that we enjoyed)

      1. I liked the rainbow bridge! But a part of my job a the time was community engagement, so it resonated.

    2. In doing research for my upcoming trip I found a website called Seoul To Do which was very helpful with organizing things by neighborhood. It has handy maps and good directions. There’s a ton of info there so it can be a bit of a rabbit hole.

  9. We recently moved to an area that is a few blocks away from a nature preserve/open space. We’ve been getting a lot of spiders, mostly in one room, and we’re struggling to find their entry point. I understand that spiders offer ecosystem benefits but we do NOT want them in our bedroom (two arachnophobes here). Any advice for how to tackle this problem? We already had a pest company out for ants and weren’t too impressed so far – they clearly just spray and pray and don’t actually investigate the specific property. Should we be trying another pest company? OTC products?

    1. It’s hard to get at spiders with stuff you spray on when they aren’t there because they have little lets that hold their bodies out of the toxins. Caulk. Look for gaps. Keep the windows open. Sweep corners for webs. Look outside for gaps.

        1. I mean: let in sunlight by leaving curtains open. Windows shut unless you know your screens don’t have holes.

    2. Spiders are hard, we use a pest company and they do have some different moves, also it’s a lot of looking for where they hide and getting rid of them. They’re sneaky.

    3. Welcome to living in the country. Get a Western annual contract and call them when you see too many. (Or when the mice get in your garage, or when the bees make a nest on your drainpipe, etc.) If you’re in the northeast, this is the time of year we get the most coming into the house. It’ll back off in the cooler months.

      1. +1. This is spider season in the Midwest, too. We have the perimeter of our house sprayed 1-2 times a year. It helps quite a bit but doesn’t get rid of them 100 percent.

      3. Right. Also in the country. We accept that we live with house spiders and the occasional wolf spider (and all the pedes!) each summer and they die when cold weather hits.

    5. Spiders dislike peppermint – make a spray with peppermint essential oil + water + a tiny bit of dish soap and spray down window tracks, door frames, etc. You can also put peppermint oil on cotton balls and stick them in spider hidey holes (this was especially successful in our old garage).

      Additionally, make sure any leaf litter or debris are swept away from windows/external doors. Try one of those plug-in ultrasonic pest deterrents (we’ve had mixed results, but doesn’t hurt to try).

      1. Note that peppermint essential oil is highly poisonous to at least cats so I would not recommend it in a house where you have other animals

    6. You just have to find the entry point and seal it. Spraying doesn’t do anything; there are always more that could find their way in as long as there’s a way. Make sure there’s absolutely nothing attracting them (i.e. other bugs that they eat), though eventually they’re just coming in for warmth.

      1. We’ve been trying and so far no luck – we temporarily taped up the sliding glass doorjamb and that did seem to reduce but not fully stem the tide.

        1. Ants and spiders really seem to hate the scent of Mrs. Meyers Lavender all purpose cleaning spray. They’re not wrong, so it’s not my favorite solution in bedrooms, but I have sprayed it around windows and doors before to discourage them!

          3. I did this with their lemon scented one everywhere on the day I moved into my country house for the same reason. 1: it didn’t work 2: I can no longer tolerate that scent.

      2. +1 I had ants in one room and I sealed every area I could possibly seal with caulk. It worked.

    7. This seems like a pipe dream, TBH. Unless your house envelope is super tight, it seems a losing battle to try to seal off every sliver of space a spider could sneak through. Like, you would need to install sealed light fixtures, somehow ensure all of your ductwork is impenetrable, make sure there are no gaps behind your baseboards, etc.

      1. It’s a mix of cutting off entry points, cutting off entry points for bugs that attract spiders, and elsewise eliminating bugs that attract spiders. It’s definitely possible to start with a lot of daily spiders and from there get to the point where there are just a few to deal with every autumn when it gets cold, and only very sporadic appearances the rest of the year.

  10. does cuticle oil or cream help smooth nail ridges? my cuticles are fine but I don’t like the ridges, which appeared a couple years ago. I assume the ridges are age related.

    2. Cuticle oil won’t fix the ridges but it can make them less obvious.
      Ridges can sometimes be caused by a nutritional issue, esp iron deficiency.

    4. I don’t think there is any way to turn naturally ridged nails into naturally unridged nails. However, my ridges are far less noticeable when the nails are properly moisturized. And if your nail thickness allows it, the use of a product like a 7 way nail buffer to physically remove the ridges and smooth the surface will help.

      1. Be careful, though. I have pronounced ridges and was so happy when I buffed my nails to smoothness for the first time. Except it was too much – they were so thin and it took weeks to grow them out

    5. I wouldn’t assume it’s age without any work up at all. So far it’s always been the first sign of a deficiency for me.

    7. I asked my dermatologist about this. She was somewhat dismissive, but did encourage cuticle cream and being religious about not drying out your hands. I keep gloves by my sink for doing dishes (but honestly, never use them) and I keep lotion by all the sinks and at my desk. I put a rich lotion on at night and often go to sleep in cotton gloves.

      My mother had very deep ridges with aging, and I suspect that is in my future regardless.

    8. FYI, Ridged nails, vertical ridges can be a sign of thyroid imbalance. I’m used to them, and just always wear nail polish.

      1. Thyroid imbalance should be treatable though. If the nails never normalize, they could be undertreating or missing something (like parietal cell antibodes causing low stomach acid, as happened to me).

        1. So parietal cell antibodies caused your rigged nails? And treating that reversed your nails?

          1. The antibodies caused really low stomach acid which caused mineral deficiencies from lower absorption. I don’t think there’s any treatment for the antibodies, just for the deficiencies? But my nails do look a lot better. I didn’t have ridged nails originally though, so it wasn’t genetic, and I really wasn’t old enough to blame aging either. The way it was explained to me, hair, skin, and nails are sort of expendable when we’re running low on something, so deficiencies can show up there first even if we feel okay.

        2. I am treated. It’s a chronic condition. I have been and will always be treated. The ridges don’t go away ‘with’ treatment. They are chronic too.

          1. I’m not hypothyroid anymore on treatment. When I was undertreated, I definitely still had signs of hypothyroidism. I’ll always be on treatment too. But I won’t always be experiencing hypothyroidism.

  11. How do you deal with requests from colleagues that run against a company policy that you disagree with but are nevertheless bound by? I’m in a law firm and this comes up for me with origination sharing and conflicts. I’ll abide by a policy I think is stupid, to my detriment. Then someone will ask me to make an exception for them, also to my detriment. I’d be happy to grant the exception if I were also getting the benefit of the exception. But I feel like I’m just always getting the short end of the stick. Should I conduct myself according to the practices I think are best, even when they hurt me?

    Example: the firm likes us to write client updates about significant cases. But the firm prohibits writing about cases where a firm client is a party. I thought that was a blanket prohibition, but apparently you can ask the originating attorney for permission — which I know only because someone asked me. It feels like there’s different rules for different people. If we don’t write about clients because we think it creates a potential ethical/business conflict then why would it be ok to write about some clients but not others? Particularly when the client was on the losing side of the argument?

    1. I wouldn’t assume there is an exception to the policy just because someone asked you.

      Also, just say no. I would not want my client’s loss featured on the website!

    2. Why do you think the fact that someone requested an exception means there is a legitimate exception policy to the actual policy?

  12. My best friend’s spouse just took a job that I find repellent. Like, fundamentally opposed to my moral and ethical self. Imagine a thing you care deeply about (both personally and professionally) and they are on the professional team that does the opposite. I’ve never particularly cared for this person, but they are a package deal so it’s fine. Nothing offensive, just kind of a boring, not-good-enough-for-my-friend, lame partner. My friend (who knows I feel strongly about this) told me this info and said she was opposed to it but spouse made their own decision, and I just kind of said “oh” then left her on read for a time, then didnt address it again. I am not interested in icing them out, but I do feel so repulsed by this choice (and it was a choice, believe me) that I feel like I can’t possibly continue on as if nothing has changed. WWYD

    1. IDK but I try to remember that people are really all trying to figure out their way in the world and we do humanity’s growth no favors by shutting out people. If our assessment is right, they need to see others who may have different beliefs. Most things aren’t even rising to that level of Big Things. I am married to someone who would have been anathema to prior generations (mutually, on both sides, and up to a prior generation). Life is weird. Proximity helps us grow towards a mean of co-existence. Isolation magnifies what I think is bad (I do strongly believe this) and what seeds plant because of limited world view and limited lived experience.

      1. This is so well said. Know that dumping your best friend, and perhaps making a fuss about it so her partner knows why, will not a) get the partner to adjust their employment, or b) make you look anything but petty. You will not succeed in “owning the libs” this way.

        1. LOL what? Not that it matters, but I am the libs in this scenario.

          I do *not* want to dump my best friend. As I said above, I am “not interested in icing them out.” Not sure why folks are reading that for the opposite meaning.

          1. the issue is your anger and contempt at his choice is oozing out of your comments and if you can’t let it go, it will quietly ice the relationship on its own.

    2. If you can’t possibly continue on as if nothing has changed, it sounds like you need to choose how strong of a statement to make:
      • Do you want to say something to your friend about how much you disapprove?
      • Do you want to set limits on what your friend can tell you about her spouse?
      • Do you want to reduce the contact with your friend?
      • Do you want to end the friendship?

      1. Thank you, this is helpful. I think saying something is almost unnecessary– my friend knows– but maybe would help close the loop. And your second bullet is a good suggestion, too. I love my friend, but I am not the right person for her to talk about spouse’s job at a minimum, and maybe more broadly, too.

          1. This was exactly where my mind went as well. I do think I would have a hard time socializing with an ICE agent, although I am on amicable terms with FBI agents and prosecutors.

          2. If it was something like this, I could not continue the friendship or pretend I was ok with it.

    3. You’re really willing to mess up your relationship with BFF because you don’t like her spouse’s job? I mean, think carefully about that because that’s exactly what you’re saying. If that’s truly how you feel, then maybe it’s best to go your separate ways. But if you want to preserve the friendship, then you are going to need to find a way to deal.

    4. I’m not even remotely this self righteous so I can’t imagine ever facing this scenario. Like is he a trafficker? No? Then whatever.

      1. Or an odious public figure we’ve heard of? Politician? Tech oligarch? Name and shame if it’s this big of deal to you.

        1. I mean, yeah, something like that actually!

          I am not interested in icing them out, I am not interested in dumping my BFF, and it had not occurred to me to “name and shame” is that your actual advice?

          1. It’s just hard to imagine what kind of job you mean, where there are sides of this kind, where one person could be entirely on one side, and the other job is in complete opposition to the point that there’s no ethical defense of the other job even existing.

          2. I think this is really hard to navigate. There are a lot of jobs I wouldn’t do myself that I could still stay friends with someone who did.

            But some actions are evil, the fact that it was your job doesn’t absolve you, and social consequences are part of how society enforces ethics. I think most people agree with this in theory (example: literal 1944 n*sis supply chain managers); it’s just very hard to figure out where the line is when you’re in the thick of it. Like, head of opioid marketing for the sacklers in the early 2000s? The guy who sourced csam to train grok on? I’m not inviting them to a holiday party.

          3. Not OP, but there are several examples on this thread, and I’m surprised you can’t think of others. Maybe you’re just not very politically engaged?

          4. No so much advice as context. You’re asking what to do in the situation without providing enough context for us to help you. IS the BFF’s spouse a tech oligarch or human trafficker? Or did they get a job as vice principal at a Catholic School. We have no way of knowing what you find so offensive.

          5. I can think of plenty jobs that I think shouldn’t exist at all because they’re rent seeking and detrimental to society that I still don’t feel this way about if someone takes them. Usually it’s worse for everyone if an even worse person takes the same job, right? How many jobs reflect a worker’s personal character like that?

            At this point I’m imagining that he’s like “a cop” and OP is taking ACAB too far.

          6. OP here, and yes, this is the kind of job I’m talking about. Some actions *are* evil, and I honestly believe when the next generation looks back on this, spouse will be on the absolute wrong side of history. I love my friend and her spouse’s actions are not her actions, but yeah, I don’t want spouse at my holiday party!

          7. Is her spouse doing something like working for the Trump Administration or Focus on the Family, and you find that to be repellent?

          8. But for an extraordinarily short list of jobs (like can list on one hand), I think it’s childish to not invite best friend’s husband because of his job. Maybe you’re just saying you don’t *want* him there – and that’s fine. But do not NOT invite him.

          9. Ok so imagine it’s one of those jobs on that extraordinarily short list. Do you still invite? The answer may still be yes, I’m just trying to drill down on what people would actually do in this situation.

          10. I honestly can’t name what job someone would hold that prevents them from coming to my house as the spouse of my best friend other than, like, personal assistant to Jeffrey Epstein or something like that.

            I mean, Karoline Leavitt is one degree removed from me in a social circle, and if she ended up at my house… c’mon in! I promise it will be a party people talk about for a while. Shrug.

            Do I disagree with a LOT of what’s going on in the world around us? Yup, you betcha. But I’m an adult and I’d support my bff. His job is not her job. I’m mature enough to extend the invite, and otherwise tolerate/make nice or just outright avoid the spouse while he’s at the party.

          11. Your comment helped me figure out what one of my lines is – if it’s something I think the person should go to prison for (regardless of whether I think it’s likely they *will*), that’s outside the line of social inclusion to me. So – Epstein’s assistant is a no, Karoline Leavitt is probably a “ugh but ok, because I love my bf”, Elon Musk is a nope, Elon Musk’s chauffeur is a yes.

      3. ICE maybe? I’m fairly centrist but i would have a really hard time if my BFF’s husband did that. I can’t think of anything else I couldn’t get past though.

          2. To follow up after thinking about it more, I would at a minimum I’d draw a bright line of never having an ICE agent in my home, even if it has fallout for the friendship. I would really struggle with having an ICE agent in my home emotionally but also just from a practical standpoint. We live in an immigrant-heavy area and my daughter has tons of friends with immigrant parents who are in and out of our home and even if the risk is very small it’s there and it’s a boundary I feel like I can’t cross.

            I would be much more inclined to host Karoline Leavitt, actually. She’s not going to put another guest in handcuffs. I wouldn’t want a deep personal friendship with her because we clearly don’t share values, but would have an easier time having a friend with a spouse in that kind of role, especially if the friend didn’t share their spouse’s politics.

          4. I’d tell her that I was horrified that he’d joined ICE and he’s not welcome in my house any more. There’d be consequences for the friendship, but there’s no way I could tolerate condoning that work.

      4. This is tiresome. If you don’t have any advice then scroll past. No need to virtue signal how accepting you are.

        I’m the person whose friend ran for office as a trumper. It’s not just that he’s R, I couldn’t care less what party you sign up with. But I care when you publicly and repeatedly say things like, black babies dying at higher rates when treated by white doctors vs black doctors isn’t a problem worthy of discourse because we shouldn’t criticize (white) doctors. He later recanted and apologized after some friends engaged with him in a more even tone than I could have managed. Idk if I would have been able to tolerate his presence if he hadn’t.

        And the thing that really burns me up is that they talk about how intolerant the left is because of all the friends they’ve lost. Dude you said it’s nbd that BABIES die from medical neglect. And you’re pro life! Not only are your views horrid, they’re not even logically consistent. Criticizing people for being intolerant of intolerable views is par for the course I guess. (Clearly I still struggle with these friends.)

        1. You may want to follow up on that study though; it wasn’t super honest to begin with.

        2. Your comment that he recanted after some friends talked sense into him is exactly why I think it’s silly to shame people who don’t cut ties with these types of people. If everyone had cut this guy off, he would have ended up only talking to other pro Trump people. You can’t change peoples minds by not talking to them.

      5. Some of you are kind of naive in your response to OP, IMO.

        For example, If I found out my friend’s husband had taken a job in active immigration enforcement, or anti abortion and birth control legislation or enforcement, or even anti vaccination research, legislation and enforcement, I’d be side-eying him and his choices big time and would cut way back on time spent with them as couple. I would keep the friendship with my friend, but I’d be watchful what was discussed between us and more careful in my interactions.

        1. It blows my mind that people are so disengaged politically as to not be able to even imagine a job that they find repellent. Do you really have no strongly held convictions? Your list of convictions is exactly that– like pick an issue you really care about, imagine it affects you personally and you work at it professionally, and that your BFF’s spouse takes a job working against you.

          ICE agent, immigration defense

          1. Sorry, double- posted. I just meant to echo your list: ICE agent, immigration defense; Pro-life, abortion doctor; Trevor Project, Alliance Defending Freedom; Giffords, NRA; etc. etc.

        2. Right? Pick any issue you care strongly about, imagine the issue is also part of your professional career, and then imagine your BFF’s spouse takes a job in opposition, which you find morally repugnant.

          Maybe people truly don’t have this strong of a conviction for any issue, but I think people are just thirsty for the tea to the point of distraction.

          1. I’m finding it hard to come up one where I’d still want to stay friends with BFF given that she hasn’t DTMFA.

            Maybe something like ABA therapist?

          2. Interesting, I think you’re the only person who has said your opinion of the BFF would change. Most are saying spouse’s job should not reflect on BFF.

          4. ABA therapists use applied behavioral analysis therapy on human children. They’ve tried to clean up their image a lot lately since their methods are outdated. But people who were harmed by the therapy cannot look past the problems with it and have a really hard time with the idea of it continuing.

          5. ABA is a very abusive therapy to make autistic kids more palatable to the adults in their life. As autistic kids have grown up into autistic adults they have rallied against it due to the immense harm it causes.

    5. If he is the new personal assistant to Andrew Tate, then yeah, dump them both. Anything else, it’s just not that important.

    6. I struggle to think of a single job that would make me feel this strongly besides maybe ICE agent? I have very strong leftist convictions, but for 95% of jobs, I can’t imagine getting so upset I would treat my best friend differently. I understand you might be afraid of doxing yourself, but I do think it’s highly dependent on what the actual job is.

      1. I will say that regardless of the actual job, and regardless of what action you choose to take, a passive aggressive “oh” followed by silence is pretty shi tty.

        1. I know! I feel sh i tty about it. It wasnt passive aggressive, for whatever that’s worth, it was my actual reaction and then my self-censoring from saying something inflammatory in the moment. Like I intentionally took a beat because I knew I could not say something supportive and didn’t want to say something unkind. We are still talking regularly, but we haven’t brought this issue up at all again since my friend told me a couple weeks ago, so Im trying to figure out where to go from here.

          I dont think I am the right person for my friend to talk this out with as I absolutely cannot be neutral, I feel really strongly about this issue. I agree somewhat that it’s none of my business what this person decides to do for work, but it reveals something about them that I cannot ignore and I do have agency for how I interact with them in the future.

          1. I don’t really discus spouse’s jobs at all with my good friends. I can’t imagine it coming up twice.

          2. a little more info about the actual job would be helpful. Like, I know some people who react this way at someone working for corporate of cruise line because cruises are environmentally damaging.

          3. And, I can’t imagine not telling good friends that my spouse got a new job. I don’t talk about DH’s job in depth, but good friends know about major life events, and changing jobs (in my circle, anyway) is one of them.

          4. They could be a medical person on a cruise line or a cook or in housekeeping. Or the person saying to hire the guy who flips the ship and causes a huge wreck. IDK. I fly in planes and drive a car. Not sure I am here to cast a lot of aspersions on others. Are we not all just doing what we can as we juggle 500 things we didn’t ask for?

          5. Sorry, my cruise line example was one where I think the reaction was ridiculous, not justified.

          6. Obviously, I am intentionally not naming the job. I don’t want this to become a whole thing about whether the job is in fact worthy of my ire. If you cannot imagine a job that repulses you, or that works in opposition of the thing you care about deeply then maybe this is not the conversation for you… But lots of people have named things above that fall in that category for them, so, for those folks: imagine it’s that– what would you do?

          7. Very honestly, I would revisit my views. I say this because I’ve done it repeatedly. A lot of jobs are odious to me personally and go against my values and my interests. But the world doesn’t revolve around me. Maybe I would conclude that I am still right and they are just scum. But usually things are not that black and white. Usually there are stakeholders that I sympathize with who don’t agree with me.

    7. I have a friend whose SO attempted to be a politician running on a pro Trump platform. She told us all “he’s not really like that” and some bs about how his real beliefs are different than his public beliefs. IMHO that’s almost worse. You’re willing to pretend to be odious because you think it’ll help you get ahead?

      I didn’t cut ties with her because I wasn’t all that close with her to begin with. Some other people did. Some took a middle ground where they engaged with him, sometimes publicly, on his beliefs. To his credit, he did actually revise some of his beliefs including publicly because of the good faith feedback he received. People who have engaged more than I have seem to think he is genuine in his changed beliefs.

      I’m glad I didn’t shut them out. We have a lot of mutual friends and it would’ve been awkward and isolating (for me) if I’d taken a hard stance. Idk if I would have been able to do this with a best friend though. I think I would probably downgrade the friendship a bit but not cut them off.

    8. Are you able to sustain your friendship with her without having to spend time with her spouse? That’s the approach I would take. If the spouse’s job comes up in conversation, you can shut it down with a gentle “you know how I feel about that, let’s talk about something else.”

      1. Mostly, yes. But BFF and I are a sounding board for each other’s everything– including our spouses. It’s hard because it would otherwise be totally normal for me to ask about how it’s going with the new job, what are they working on, any fun colleagues, etc. Your script for not talking about the spouse’s job is a helpful one, and maybe that is enough of a boundary.

        1. I get that, and have friendships like that. I think you can navigate it with love for her and mindfulness about how you are feeling. Like there may be times where you can listen to her talk about how she feels, and other times where you just can’t. And if you’re that close, you can be open about that. I’m not saying it will be easy, but close friends are worth the effort.

    9. I’m about as crunchy as they come. The only person I’ve cut contact with for something like this is the wife of a Republican politician (she was starting to drink the koolaid and became a SAHM).

      Unless you walk the walk in every conceivable way (which you probably don’t, I’ve never met someone who does) you just seem like a hypocrite.

      1. As I said, this is a professional as well as personal issue to me, so yes, I walk the walk.

        I can’t imagine cutting contact with someone because they became a SAHM though. There must have been so much more to it (or maybe you are saying that you were a hypocrite?).

        1. Its cute you think you walk the walk when I’m sure you buy from the river store and support companies that fund war and other human rights abuses. But I do believe you vote well.

    10. I sort of understand this–I am a career public defender and my best friend’s husband is a cop. I know that there are some good cops, but the profession as a whole protects bad cops and rewards that behavior. Our city’s police force in particular has had a number of scandals recently and even had federal involvement. However, I know my friend loves her husband, he treats her well, and he is a good father to their children. I continue to reserve my judgment and make sure my friend knows that I will always support her (I know the rates of domestic violence by cops…) and I am civil with him. We don’t discuss work.

      1. I am uncomfortable around a lot of people who work with vulnerable populations in problematic systems that protect bad actors. But I know even cops do a lot of good for people who aren’t me (some cops I know and don’t see eye to eye with still have saved more people from overdose, or even from DV, than I ever will; people in harder circumstances than me choose to call the cops in all kinds of situations that I never face). I still don’t feel super safe around people who categorically seem to face so few consequences.

        1. I’m married to a cop who is at best a medium human, but only considering the people’s he’s narcan’d this month alone he’s saved more lives than any of my ‘caring’ friends ever will in their life.

          1. I guess it is the Catholic in me that just can’t elevate faith over works to that extent. The good Samaritan wasn’t the guy with the carefully considered opinions who walked on by!

          2. I’ve known plenty of people who get into “problematic” jobs because they didn’t fully understand the issues they’d be tied up in and then stay because they figure they can do damage reduction within the system and they’re prioritizing stability for their families. And they end up doing far more good than someone who tries to live a perfectly blame-free life! It can be a very difficult position to be in, and I’m not going to cut people off for making that choice.

          3. Really a lot of jobs are problematic enough to benefit from a good person doing damage reduction!

    11. You guys remember that excellent scene in White Lotus where Leslie Bibb, Michelle Monaghan, and Carrie Coon puzzle out that Leslie Bibb’s politician husband is MAGA and that Leslie (appears to have) voted for Trump?

      1. HA yeah, this is sort of like that, expect the friends were realizing something about their friend, not just her husband. There were so many excellent takes on this scene ringing true for many people in the US. Most of us don’t know anyone who stormed the capital, but rather know people who are quietly and politely adopting a set of views that add up to something destructive.

          1. I also know people who were there. (Not BFFs or spouses though). I don’t think it’s that uncommon.

    12. You do whatever is best for you but honestly I think all of this hard core line drawing is only breeding more extreme people and echo chambers.

      I think it’s useful for my crazy MAGA relatives to have at least one woke crazy liberal woman in their lives if only to remind them that there are women who are liberal AND are happily married (not man haters) AND are loving mothers AND try their best to be kind and civil. Everyone has to live their own life and I absolutely don’t fault people who cut people out of their lives for their own wellbeing but I refuse to believe that socially isolating people causes them to change for the better and really hate the sentiment among some people that cutting ties with someone is somehow morally superior.

    13. I’m surprised by a lot of these responses – really, there’s no jobs you can imagine that you find that offensive?? Like there is a world of difference between someone taking an accounting job at nestle and someone choosing to work for ICE or becoming RFK’s personal assistant. It’s pretty easy to draw a line between purely evil, causing harm in all aspects, and “lower level cog in giant corporate machine of a company that’s probably making the world worse on balance”.

      OP, I think it’s reasonable to wait until it comes up again, and say ‘look, you know how I feel about x. I love you, but I’m not a good person to discuss this with.’

      1. It’s just weird and high horsey. I’m a marine environmentalist, I spend all day every day saving the fishies, protecting our oceans is my biggest passion, I haven’t eaten fish in 20 years. My best friend is a lobbyist for a cruise line, she literally advocates for them to ruin the oceans I protect, and I just dgaf? No human is all good, if I held that standard I’d be completely alone. My bff comes to my aid when I need her, no one else in my life does that.

      2. Like the person who mentioned Tate said, if it were really that bad, then “dump them both.” If it’s something the BFF opposes but doesn’t oppose that much, it’s probably that not offensive either.

  13. Did we talk about that stupid Callaway Good Good video yet? Without getting into how bad that was, I have worked in corporate America my entire 30+ career and I know the channels that something has to go through to get something approved, so I can not believe that this even made it to the posting stage! Could this have possibly not had any women give input on this?

    1. The other thing about it is one of the early rebuttals was that it was supposed to be a parody of a scene from a show? movie? I’m not quite as young and hip as I once was, now at 40 years old, but I’m pretty current on many popular shows and I’d never seen the thing they were parodying, which I’m guessing is the case for most…. who did they think that was really going to land well with??

    2. I would assume that the good ol’ boys either didn’t seek out a woman’s opinion or if they did, simply did not GAF. I work in communications and marketing and don’t find this all that surprising, sadly.

    3. Agreed. It’s infuriating. How on earth did this get approved. The commentary I’ve seen from lots of men on the internet is pretty depressing and demonstrates exactly why this kind of media is so harmful.

    4. I think over the course of my career, I’ve become *less* surprised by really dumb corporate decisions. When I was 25, I thought “I’m only a few years in and even I can see that glaringly dumb decision from space! What were they thinking???”. Now that I’ve been “in the room where it happens” – and lost some of those fights – think “gah, I know exactly what happened – some poor soul lost that fight. Wonder if it was because the CEO’s son pitched the idea, or if it was because two VPs were having a pissing contest and this issue was the turf it happened to happen on?”

      1. Yup, this. Somebody was not going to be talked out of that idea, no matter how dumb it was.

    5. Allegedly, it’s riffing on the movie Obsession.

      My problems with that:

      The movie is hardly so baked into the cultural milieu that everyone would recognise it. At least according to the AI, about 23 million tickets have been sold in America, which means that some 7% of the country knows it.

      The guy in the commercial was legit scary.

      Nothing in the commercial screamed “riffing on a horror film.” It’s a bright, beautiful, normal day.

      Which is to say, it seems like an excuse to shove a woman to the ground in a commercial.

    6. I’ve come to view these “mistakes” as intentional. Because any publicity is good publicity. Like Target with their costume mistake this year, which seems to happen every year so obviously it’s intentional at this point. Why pretend anything else? These companies know exactly what they’re doing and who they’re harming.

    7. I have taken solace in a few things:

      – Good Good was dumped by Callaway.
      – Costco dumped Callaway.
      – A lot of women make purchasing decisions (and play golf) and I don’t think this will be forgotten soon.
      – Hopefully negative publicity from this will make another boneheaded ad team think twice in the future.

      But also, the Good Good head’s apology was the WORST non-apology I have ever seen. I hope they go bankrupt.

    8. Eh. I think they thought this was “edgy” but also in line with the general direction of popular culture. And I guess the more interesting question to me is: were they wrong? I’m not sure that the logical extension of trumpian bullying and the return of “traditional masculinity” doesn’t end in glorification or at least justification of domestic violence in media and advertising. I’m sure they anticipated pushback but thought “don’t be so sensitive; it’s a JOKE” would silence critics. I’m actually a bit heartened by the backlash. This wouldn’t have been acceptable on 2016 but given the regressive rhetoric that seems pervasive lately I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes acceptable pretty quickly.

      1. I agree that there’s been a lot of regressive rhetoric lately but I don’t think that popular culture and most people in general have moved so far away from where we were in 2016 that violence against women is just a funny joke. What I do think has happened is that the regressive language and blatant misogyny on display at all levels of government has given cover for the noxious misogynists that have always walked among us to be louder about it. What worries me isn’t a general shift in “popular culture” or that most people with fully-formed prefrontal cortexes are some how thinking that DV is acceptable or funny (or not recognizing this as problematic) when they previously would have. It’s that young men and boys see this modeled for them and form beliefs accordingly.

  14. What is the difference between a general counsel role and a chief legal officer role? Does this depend on the company? Which title would you prefer if you are a GC?

    1. have heard both used on their own to refer to the top attorney in the organization. have also heard GC for the top attorney at a subsidiary while CLO & GC is the top attorney at the parent level. Having both together is the clearest signal that you are the top of your overall org IMHO.

    2. The few times I’ve encountered a CLO title have been because the company needed to find a way to give the GC a promotion, either to appease their ego or to dump unrelated responsibility on them beyond GC work.

    3. Depends on the size of the company, some are so large that there are GCs over business lines and the head of all legal is the CLO. But also some people negotiate a CLO title in small departments to also have a c-suite title. I’m a GC in a midsize company and think your actual scope of responsibility matters more for movement purposes because CLO hasn’t widely replaced GC.

    4. I work in tech. A CLO implies (right or wrong) more of a management seat, being part of the exec team, functioning as an executive.

      A GC might be a step down or have less of a seat at the table. I also think of a GC as “doing some of the work themselves” more than a CLO, who is more of a delegator.

      Last, I think that some CLOs, once they have been CLO, don’t want the “demotion in title” to GC.

    5. In addition to the other points being made, in my experience CLOs usually report to the CEO and have a direct line to the Board whereas GCs often report to someone else (usually the COO). Personally I very much prefer the first because what the COO thinks Legal needs to know and what Legal actually needs to know are vastly different things.

    6. We used to have both at my company. The CLO sat on the board and did policy work. The GC managed the domestic legal department and reported to the CLO.

  15. Do you think this is humble-bragging or general vulnerability? We went out with a friend who started his own company. He expressed how hard it is, and said ‘We went from 1 million annual revenue to 10 million in the first year. We were so proud, but investors acted like it wasn’t impressive. Then they wanted us to hit 50 million the next year, but we only hit 35 million, so it was another disappointment.”

    I interpreted it as him sharing that he wasn’t feeling great about things, but afterwards had a bad taste in my mouth as it feels like it may just have been a way to show off under the guise of being vulnerable.

    1. I’m not familiar enough to know whether this would constitute bragging (or whether the company is even out of the woods in terms of whether it will succeed or fail in the end).

    2. yes and no?

      I mean, there aren’t a lot of people you can complain to like that, but I get the complaint part: investors are NEVER happy. You give people 10 and they want 20. I miss elementary school and praise.

      OTOH, a spouse of a friend posted a first day of school noting that Stellar Kid had to go Even Earlier because Kid is a Leader in student government and wanted to personally welcome the new kids to school. That stuff never happens IRL when you do things that are hard. They just ask why you either didn’t do more or harder or sooner.

    3. With a friend I would assume good intentions. He’s working hard and being told it isn’t enough, and that’s something we can all feel empathy about.

    4. Really hard for us to judge without knowing this person and their personality, usual way of being, how vulnerable they usually are with you, body language, tone, context, etc.

    6. I think much depends on the setting and the tone with which it was said. I would not assume it was bragging.

    7. Personally, I find it deeply immiserating when I knock it out of the park and am told that it still isn’t “good enough.” Absolute, truly hate it.

      It isn’t about praise; it’s about not looking for excuses to crap on other people. “No matter what, you aren’t good enough” is such a gross and degrading dynamic.

      So I vote reasonable.

    8. The numbers sound big if you aren’t used to dealing with that side of things but it seems very plausible that your friend is expressing despair rather than humble bragging. Like, $30M is a number you would think means no worries ever again, but in reality, it’s not yours and just means more responsibility.

      2. And it’s revenue, so I don’t even know if they’re in the green? (I also don’t know the odds because I’m not used to dealing with this side of things either.)

        1. this. DH just started a business. $1M revenue next year will be breaking even. $10M would be great, but expenses would also scale…so yeah. I would assume he’s frustrated that investors aren’t happy even though he’s working hard. The revenue numbers are meaningless.

        2. OP here – our circle is all in tech, so you can sell your company without ever being profitable. Revenue is the primary metric investors base the valuation on, along with growth rate. So they had $10 million and raised at a $300 million valuation, and now at $30 million are trying to raise at over a billion. So though it’s not his money per se, it sort of indirectly reveals at least on paper net worth.

      3. Yeah OP you just sound very unsophisticated. This is not a humble brag but someone talking about their challenges.

        2. Nah it’s a weird humble brag. I unfortunately socially know one of tech bros biggest darlings and he says this sort of stuff all the time. He thinks he’s a God.

      4. OP here. Yes, totally get that. We all work in the same space, and maybe 50% of us are in the same situation he’s in. I think part of why it gave me pause is because it is quite a bit better than the average. For this space, you’re looking at 10-30x multiples on revenue for your valuation, and at this point he owns maybe 10% still. He was also saying things like how hard it would be to own a house in our city and how with certain companies booming, what would have been ‘good enough’ last year no longer is. I couldn’t tell if it was genuine feelings borne from not yet having liquidity / the money being on paper only / the stakes feeling increasingly high, or if comments about houses being too expensive to buy was pandering to us since he assumes we have less than him. It just seems crazy given he is probably worth around $50 million on paper that he would have been expressing anxiety over money.

        2. How much of that paper money is in his pocket? Fake, illiquid assets that are not really available to you can legitimately be a huge source of stress.

    9. Ehh, I don’t analyze my friends intentions that closely, and I hope that they aren’t analyzing mine like that either. So what if some part of his heart was hoping a little you’d say “wow, but that’s really impressive! you should be proud of yourself!”; and it was a mixed bag of motivations of partly feeling truly insecure/disappointed in the investor’s reaction and partly looking for some validation? Human hearts are messy and full of mixed motivations.

    10. You know your friend best. But I think if he wanted to brag he would talk about profits not revenue. As someone else said, gross revenue doesn’t even tell you if they’re in the black.

    11. If this is in tech, and I suspect it might be due to those high numbers as fast as you’re describing, there has been a real shift in the past 18 mos that “impressive scaling” (what he was describing) is no longer impressive when you hear about extreme outlier scaling scenarios (Cursor, for example). Your friend is likely killing himself to get those numbers, and his team is too, and then they’re being told they’re not doing enough by investors or potential investors. It is truly demoralizing. I don’t think it’s humblebragging. It’s founder exhaustion, and a shifting market. Those numbers are impressive by any normal measure. We’re just not in normal times, scaling-wise, from a VC lens.

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