Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Striped Sweater Jacket
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m seeing a shift in sweater jacket silhouettes lately. There are fewer blazer styles and more “lady jacket” styles popping up, including this really cute striped version from Talbots. At this point, I’m not 100% sure I could tell you the difference between a sweater jacket and a thick cardigan, but I’m also not sure it matters!
I would pair this with some navy trousers and loafers for a comfy, business casual look.
The sweater is on sale for $89.99 (marked down from $129) at Talbots and comes in sizes XS-XL and P-XL.
Lady jacket fan? Some of our latest favorite lady jackets for work include sweater jackets from ba&sh, Boden, and J.Crew. (M.M.LaFleur just got some also!) On the budget side of things, check out Mango, Tuckernuck (XXS-XXL), and CeCe. If you prefer a lined, more Chanel-style jacket for work, do take a look at IRO and L'Agence; Mango, J.Crew Factory, and Madewell often have them at budget-friendly prices.
Sales of note for 5/27/25:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has begun! See our full roundup here. Lots of markdowns on AGL (50%!), Weitzman, Tumi, Frank & Eileen, Zella, Natori, Cole Haan, Boss, Theory, Reiss (coats), Vince, Eileen Fisher, Spanx, and Frame (denim and silk blouses)
- Nordstrom Rack – Refurbished Dyson hairdryers down to $199-$240 (instead of $400+) + Father's Day gifts up to 60% off
- Ann Taylor – 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Memorial Day Event: 50-70% off everything + extra 25% off
- Boden – 15% off new women's styles
- Eloquii – $25+ select styles + extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – Summer kickoff event, up to 50% off 1000s of styles+ extra 50% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 70% off everything + extra 70% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Memorial Day Sale: extra 20% off with code + try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Rothy's – Up to 30% off everything
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – $29.50+ must-haves + extra 50% off all sale styles
We just adopted a 1-year-old cattle dog mix. He’s wonderful, but he’s a herder and is nipping/biting. We are getting a professional trainer starting next week, but in the meantime, does anyone have any tips/experience in getting dogs like this to stop nipping? He does it when he’s excited or when he wants to herd. It doesn’t seem aggressive. Still, it could be bad, because even though it’s puppy nips he’s almost full-grown.
Thank you!
No luck and that’s why my parents’ cattle dog isn’t allowed around our baby.
Do you properly exercise him? Not just walks but runs and long distances? My childhood dog was like this when we didn’t run him.
This. We had a cattle dog. Even with a yard, he still needed a morning run plus a couple miles on a walk in the evening to get out all of his energy. Cattle dogs are like ADHD spirit animals with energy and hyper focus. Ultimately, you will need to find him herding task (which you can do with the trainer). Ours loved to herd his balls – we’d fill up a bin with tennis balls, drop them all over the floor, then keep kicking them out of his circle. He also took mornings very seriously and herded everyone out the door.
I’m not sure what you mean by “it could be bad.” Is he biting hard or breaking skin? (I’m used to getting nipped by other people’s herding dogs that want to herd me, but it’s not really bad or any more annoying than a dozen other things people’s dogs do.)
It’s difficult to own a dog that nips. Pretty much everyone is irritated by that, and kids and people with dog phobias are frightened. Children trigger my parents’ border collie to do this, and she therefore can’t be around them, which is often inconvenient. It’s possible to train herding dogs not to nip, but it’s not easy because this is an ingrained behavior for them.
Working dogs need to work. Is he in doggy daycare during the day? Does he get to run in a big park? He will need a lot of exercise.
This is like the single main feature of these dogs.
This worked for my herding dog, but to be fair, he only nipped a little bit when he was a puppy. When he went for my heels, I would immediately stop moving. Herding dogs nip to move animals, so standing still takes away the reward. Same for hands. Hands get nipped, hands go away and all attention/interaction stops. If he’s jumping and nipping when you get home, he needs to sit calmly before he gets pets.
Definitely good call on getting a professional trainer. Also, I strongly recommend more mental stimulation. Not only are these dogs physically active, they need a job. Putting their brains to work tires them out and calms them. Training, nose work, agility, obedience/rally, herding classes, puzzle games – doesn’t matter what it is, just something that engages the brain and gives a sense of accomplishment. IME herding dogs are independent minded but also very handler-focused (unlike, say, hounds). They thrive on interaction with you where you work as a team.
My last advice (more general but will also help with nipping and impulse control) is to pay careful attention to what sort of behavior you are rewarding. Notice and reward calm behavior. Do place training. Set boundaries (doorways, permission for getting on furniture, sit calmly and wait..) Do not encourage chaotic behavior in the home. It’s very easy to mess up an intelligent, high-strung dog by inadvertently encouraging bad behavior like barking and running and herding when people move, or are loud, or interact with each other and the dog thinks he needs to be involved, too. People laugh or encourage the dog to join in and get amped up and then boom you’ve got a dog who thinks he is supposed to get all worked up. And then you try to train out that behavior once it’s too late and he’s confused. These dogs are smart and they’re constantly looking for cues and learning, so it’s key to be mindful about what you’re communicating.
This is excellent advice. I would only add that you can redirect nipping behavior to a toy.
This excellent advice. I would only add that you can redirect nipping behavior to a toy. Please look into fear free training—it works! I have a cattle dog mix and “reward calm behaviors” is my literal mantra I say to myself all day.
My part-cattle dog pup seems to love when we switch roles and chase/herd her. We give her a toy and then chase her around, trying to get the toy. I don’t know if it would help with nipping, but it definitely makes her happy and seems to oddly satisfy the herding/chasing impulse.
We had a dog that was part border collie and we had to run him into the ground. We had a big fenced yard but we had to spend 30++ minutes actively throw/catching with him, plus 2-3x long walks or runs. This dog would play hard, crash hard, and rally right up again.
No advice, but I want to thank you for caring enough to book a professional trainer and seek additional advice!
OP here. Thanks for saying this. I really want to try to get this right, and I’ve gone in eyes as wide open as I can (this is a shelter dog; we met him 3-4 times; I’ve booked a trainer; I’m asking for help here and elsewhere to bridge the gap; I know all about the difficulties of cattle dogs and the like). So although I really do appreciate the warnings and the skepticism voiced here, this kind encouragement felt good in a moment when there’s some uncertainty and I’m trying my best.
What obligation, if any, do you think a depressed spouse/parent has to put on a brave face for the sake of family life? I fully, completely acknowledge that depression is a disease you can’t “snap out of” and am suggesting nothing of the sort – but I’m starting to think that it’s vital for depressed people to include an effort in “faking it” as part of their treatment plan. I’m witnessing several loved ones really, really struggling and even considering divorcing because they can’t live with someone’s depression taking center stage, clouding every single moment of family life, and always being the focus. Kids are affected, extended family is affected, households become unhappy. What can be done here? Is it fair to ask a severely depressed person to smile and participate in a child’s birthday party as if they’re not depressed?
It seems like women fake it because we’re expected to, men lash out because they’re allowed to.
This has been the opposite of what I’ve witnessed. The men feel like they have to put on a brave face while the women in my life take it out on everyone around them. Probably both of us are generalizing too heavily based on our own lived experience.
OP here and I’ve seen both almost equally. In one of the cases I currently have in mind, it’s the man lashing out and it’s become a “walking on eggshells” situation, which I remember being so, so awful from my own childhood with a stepparent with mental illness. I think on a subject like this, past history must color every response.
It’s almost like people are individuals and gender stereotypes aren’t helpful!
Agreed. My sister has been like this with her divorce. Every. Single. Family. Interaction. From Calls. To Visits. To Family Trips. was about her divorce, how it devastated her, how it caused financial free-fall, how unfair it was, what a jerk he was, what his new wife and next family have and are doing, and how we don’t support her (my mother gave her $$$ for the better part of a decade and she had excellent alimony and kept the family house). Yes, it broke her and it was like she was perpetually drowning in emotions. It got to the point where the only decision I got to make was to let a drowning person pull me under (and listen to her try to make me feel bad that I didn’t drown with her faster, IDK what you can really do here) and I just had to walk away. I’m sad for not having the family situation I wanted, but concentrating on loving the (nuclear and extended_ family I have that is not like this is the only thing I can do. It is what it is.
Eh, that’s not entirely true. All of human history bears out that as a class, men react and process their lives with a degree of violence unheard of in women.
Women seem to poison and embezzle more. Different tactics when you’re smaller.
@10:23 Don’t be obtuse, those poisoned men were abusive and it was the only safe escape tactic.
Wow this board really takes some weird turns lately.
10:42, please stop being ridiculous.
Faking it isn’t enough.
As someone that struggled with depression until I was properly diagnosed with Bipolar 2 and medicated at the age of 40, I can tell you I spent most of my time faking it because to do otherwise felt like more evidence that I was a burden on others (and your question confirms that). I will also tell you it was mentally more painful when I was faking it and there was often a period after family events where I had a harder time functioning. But to get to the core of it, would you ask a diabetic to eat cake just so everyone else was more comfortable? Stand because their wheelchair doesn’t go with the decor? Depression is a disease that is painful physically and mentally. Those that are depressed aren’t doing it for fun. I know it is hard for loved ones as well – I have seen my husband’s face when I was doing poorly. But to essentially say that someone struggling with depression needs to suck it up so the rest of the family/friends can enjoy themselves is pretty heartless.
Maybe it seems heartless, although I don’t mean it that way. Many close to me have struggled with depression and SMI. But I can’t ignore the impact on their families and in two cases I’m thinking of, it seems to have crossed some line into unfair. To use your examples, it would be like a diabetic person taking away the sugary cake that others were going to eat, or the wheelchair user parking their chair in front of the entrance to party and not letting anyone pass. Maybe the answer isn’t to fake it, but to excuse oneself from family events if faking it is impossible that day. I see that happening with one dear friend’s partner and absolutely no one is happy with the results.
I think that this is valid. We have one family member who is not able to function in some situations due to austism that is usually ASD1/low support needs to some sort of meltdown. We have to decide: do we go, do we not go, do only some of us go, do we go with guardrails and stuff and a bug-out-plan and maybe two cars so some can stay and some can leave? It’s fine if this kid misses her own graduation, but we want to let her try to attend with ear phones and a good hard run that morning and emergency snacks and a strong understanding from admins on timing and the general order of things and a way to quietly sneak out (boo to the middle school graduation that went over 2 hours in the middle of lunchtime and was chaotically loud). But planning a spring break trip or visiting college travel: we do so very thoughtfully and with awareness and backup plans. But we also don’t bring her to rock concerts, which she is OK with. She does go to funerals because she has to and because we have to and because this is part of our lives; and we take time to talk through the plan and walk and talk a lot after.
I would expect someone with a cold to stay home, and that’s a better analogy for being depressed than someone being in a wheelchair or needing to eat different foods.
To be more specific: vibes are contagious. If you are sad but not acting like it, your sadness is not contagious. This question is about being outwardly sad, and in that case, stay home.
Yes, sick, sad, and grieving people are bummers and should not inflict the dark cloud of their presence upon all the healthy, happy people whose happiness is nevertheless extremely vulnerable to the slightest awareness of another’s suffering.
Yep, that is exactly what I was saying and not at all a cartoonish distortion of it.
I guess the question is that if a person will not be able to help themselves and will ruin an event for other attendees, do you even invite them? Especially if they won’t self-select out? For all of the invitation-is-not-a-summons situations mentioned here, for those who go at any cost, please just skip inviting them (“Sarah, with all that you’ve got going on, I couldn’t bear the thought of imposing Jilly’s little hen’s night party on you.”)
This is why I divorced my ex husband. He was depressed. He couldn’t help it. But it made life sad and miserable for everyone around him. It wasn’t his fault, but I didn’t want to spend my life that way.
Same. Long term partner but same otherwise.
There’s depression where “effort” is just not on the table. Maybe they should fake it, but they can’t. So be aware that you may be suggesting “snap out of it” as far as the inability to fake it goes. For people who are capable, there may also be some risks to faking.
I don’t think there’s any need for a family member’s depression to take center stage, cloud every moment of family life, and always end up being the focus. But I’m not completely clear on why that is happening. If someone doesn’t smile and participate in a birthday party, why is that the center stage and the focus vs. the birthday party being the center stage and the focus? If someone isn’t participating in a party because they have a debilitating migraine, or because they are bedridden with influenza, or because their multiple sclerosis is flaring, I think of their ailment as on the periphery of the event (especially if they’re off in another room convalescing!).
So I can’t tell if you’re talking about situations where a troubled person is going way out of their way to make everything about them (and maybe there’s something more than depression involved in their mental illness in that scenario), or if you’re talking about situations where people aren’t really thinking that depression is a disease, so their expectations are unrealistic.
I can’t tell either — is this where it’s better if Uncle Jim puts in a very brief appearance to show the person that they are valued (and that Uncle Jim knows his limits and want to not ruin it for everyone)? Or Uncle Jim send a fancy card? Or Aunt Lindy doesn’t bother to get you a card or writes a caustic one or comes and makes rude comments when it would be better to just stay home? Or Cousin Pat, who is an alcoholic and doesn’t realize that the invitation is pro forma and comes to something and causes a scene (or would come even if not invited)?
A recent example would be the depressed person standing there looking extremely glum, responding with one-word answers, and quite obviously not participating in any way at expected moments (blowing out the candles, posing for a photo).
It sounds like they’re really not doing well, but it doesn’t sound like they tried to make this all about them from what you’ve said? All I am hearing is that they existed in a space and didn’t obstruct anyone else’s participation in any way even though they didn’t have a lot to give. It makes me wonder if they were the only sick or disabled person present that they stood out so much just from behaving in a low energy way. Maybe I’m missing that they were doing something really attention demanding or draining.
It does sound like these would be good examples to bring up with a medical team of how the medical management is currently inadequate.
This sounds very draining for everyone around them, and I get OP’s perspective.
How is this ruining the party? I can think of lots of things that would draw attention or cause problems, but just being low energy and staying out of the way really seems like a very minor offense.
Trust me, it’s not just low-energy. It’s a negative mood that brings down the entire room within moments. It’s not subtle; it’s not private.
Think of the dad who is yelling at passing cars for perceived slights while driving the family on the way to an aunt’s birthday lunch which you’re supposed to be cheerful at. Or the mother who insists you leave the dance recital early because the chairs are uncomfortable so she doesn’t want to sit there for longer than your piece. Except of course it’s not the chairs that are the problem because everyone else can tolerate a less comfortable seat for an hour and a half to celebrate a group of children putting on a piece together.
I’m firmly in the camp that depressed family members due owe good behavior to others.
Or at least you can tell them something like “I get carsick when I ride in cars, so I will drive me and the kids separately” or tell someone to wait outside until it’s over if they can’t bear sitting in a chair.
I think it fully depends on the severity of the medical problem. Of course the person should make their best effort, but we can’t know what that “should” look like.
I have a friend with a kid more autistic than mine (or higher support needs) and he is like this but also has the sense enough to know what he needs to take outside or to a quiet room and does that. And when he was little, his family would take him outside for zoomies. He has the sense to know what is appropriate when, and if an autistic kids knows when he’s not handling mainstream things well and self-removes, other people can also. He participates as he can and when he can’t, he graciously allows others to continue with their fun and he takes care of his needs.
This is the way to handle it, but most people with issues simply do not have that level of self-awareness and respect for others.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be severely depressed. It’s not necessarily wrong to ask for that as someone improves, but often what it means to be severely depressed is that that kind of social interaction becomes a herculean effort. If you want that over keeping a job, housework, or maintaining exercise, eating or sleep habits, or any other number of things the person might be doing to try to maintain life, relationships, or just trying to stay alive and recover, that’s fine, just be aware that it can be a huge effort than then can’t be devoted to other things. When resources are limited, you have to prioritize, and for someone with kids, this is one that might make sense, but it will be at the cost of other things.
Maybe that person shouldn’t come, and if their judgement is clouded as to whether they can come and not have an event be worse for their presence, perhaps not invited at all.
You can either smile at the party or skip it, IMO. Depression doesn’t give you the right to pull focus off the child by being a sulk.
+1 – so much depressive behavior is very selfish. I do think there’s a fake it obligation.
Stop it. Any illness that requires resources could be couched as “selfish” but decent people don’t use that language, and neither should you.
There are ways to be sick and selfish simultaneously, yes, and “decent people” understand that that is true.
I see you haven’t met my sister yet. I’d bet that she could have a DSM-diagnosable condition, but she’s also a petty jerk who will make everything all about her and her struggles.
Getting married? She got divorced.
Having a baby? Her ex has 3 more now and doesn’t like to pay her child support.
Graduating college? So is her son, but he has student loans because his dad wouldn’t pay tuition.
We all know a person like this.
Having mental illness doesn’t make you an asshole. Your sister is an asshole who also has mental illness.
That’s not always true. There are plenty of personality disorders that make you a complete a-h0le. That’s the illness.
How does an expression on a face pull focus off of anything? Forced smiles are pretty unpleasant, and simply not smiling isn’t the equivalent of sulking. If someone is quietly and politely managing their own pain, they don’t need to be a pariah just because people can tell they’re in pain.
If they’re deliberately demanding attention, that’s different (and putting a lot of effort into demanding attention doesn’t sound a lot like depression to me).
If you’ve never been around someone who is martyring themselves, major credit to everyone in your social circle who struggles with mental health issues.
A small smile is polite though. If you can’t manage a “hello” or another kind word a small smile is fine. It can communicate that you’re struggling but mean no harm to the person you’ve encountered. It actually does matter. No one wants anyone with a forced fake grin but a quiet kind hello, a small smile or a gentle wave of acknowledgment really is the difference between a struggling person meaning well and someone that is unkind. If you can’t even manage that your spouse is going to have to explain to everyone what is going on. Which is also fine, but it’s not a crazy thing to ask of someone.
OP here and that’s exactly what I mean – I don’t think a depressed person has to fake being the life of the party, but a family member is in a situation where her partner will not (ever) do the small smile and basic hello for any social situations.
The question was, what obligation does a parent have. If you’re the parent of the birthday boy, you need to put a pleasant expression on your face for a few hours. You do not get to opt out of being present for your child. And if you cannot be present for your child then you need to get appropriate medical help to minimize the impact on your child.
As the child in this scenario, I absolutely did not want my mentally ill parent there pretending to be normal and ruining my birthday. I wanted them far away.
I don’t think anyone on this thread who is insisting that mentally ill people should put on a happy face and show up has ever actually had a mentally ill person in their immediate family.
Or have family members with a different degree of mental illness or more self-control.
I had this in my family. The person in question could put on a happy face and power through for the sake of his children and spouse. Did he always? Of course not and nobody expected him to, but he regularly pretended he was fine and happy for their sakes. Was he still clinically depressed and suffering? Absolutely. But the man raised “fake it till you make it” to an art form.
Was that because his depression was less severe? Probably yes. But was it also because he centered his family obligations.
I’m not sure a family battling this kind of illness should be putting on public events like birthday parties unless one parent is willing to do it alone. It stinks for the kid, but not everyone gets parties and maybe they are mature enough to understand that.
My experience with people who have serious mental illness is that their “faking it” is not effective. At best they still exude a negative vibe. More likely is that they draw attention to themselves and/or hold it together for a while and then explode. Also, the family needs space to get away from the ill person’s constant presence. It’s much kinder of the ill person to decline to participate in social events and let their family enjoy themselves.
Declining participation puts all the work on everyone else, though. It’s not just missing out on the fun, although that’s also really important when there are kids involved, but it’s opting out of the daily and special occasion work involved with raising children.
Again, you must not have had a mentally ill parent or spouse. It is worse for the kids and for the other parent if the ill parent is there than if they aren’t.
Are we talking a party or 24/7 living with kids? In the second case, if he is checking out on life, meds / therapy isn’t working. Or he isn’t working the program. Or it’s time to leave so you aren’t also dragged down.
You should be able to trust that a close family member is doing their best, even when they’re struggling with mental illness. Sure, that looks different for everyone and I’m sure the op acknowledges that sometime people can’t fake it, meaning it’s clear they’re trying but struggling. I think the thing she’s getting at here if you’re asking someone to “fake” it there is a perception on the part of the family that no effort is being made and I do think we owe that to each other even in the depths of illness.
Id also say that old men shouldn’t be forgiven for being rude and grumpy to loved ones, either. It’s inconsiderate; not lovable and we should expect more from family.
Yes, it is fair to ask an adult to put on a happy face and be an adult. People do it for work. They can do it for their kids.
If the depressed person is so profoundly disabled by their depression that they are unable to function in day to day life, including by working, then they might need more advanced care like residential treatment. I think a lot of people resist getting the help they legitimately need because of the disruption to their life and the stigma. But it is far more disruptive to limp along for years or decades than to just take a couple of months to get the help you need.
This isn’t something that comes with rules.
+100000
I think the obligation is not to try to mask depression, but to commit to treatment and open communication. Clinical depression is so hard, because when you’re in it, you don’t necessarily have a clear perception of what’s happening or how you are affecting others. You need to trust those closest to you when they say “hey, it’s bad right now, you need some help.” And of course, the depression can make those words sound like an attack.
Treatment is a separate issue, though. Someone can be committed to treatment and also have a negative impact on family members, whether it’s those family members always being on guard for triggers or them having to go through all life events with the depressed parent opting out.
Think of how it is with addicts. They can go to treatment and fail and fail and fail and maybe want to get better at times and still not be able to follow through. Do you invite them to your big anniversary party? Or not? I’m voting not, but also it’s hard to discuss even though the lucid person might totally see your point.
I would argue that the hypothetical people you describe are not getting effective treatment. Nor are they communicating appropriately with their loved ones.
In the second example, if I struggled with depression and always took the pathway of opting out of social obligations, then my depression is not being managed well. I might need more therapy. I might need different meds. And I definitely need someone to tell me that I’ve skipped too many events and need to talk to my doctor about it. And if I ignore that advice or lash out, then my loved ones have right to reconsider the relationship because I’m not giving them my best effort.
In the same scenario, if I fake being okay for events but I’m not okay, then we’re all letting each other down. I’m not getting what I need, and everyone else is fine with it as long as I don’t ruin their fun.
You are assuming that treatment is effective. It often isn’t, no matter how hard the person tries.
Therapy doesn’t work. Ever.
I know there’s a few anti-therapy crusaders here, but that is just such a ridiculous statement. Therapy helped my depression, so there goes your idea that it doesn’t work ever.
Another person therapy worked for, checking in. Sorry you haven’t found a solution, anon @11:04, but it’s pretty narcissistic to assume your experience is the only valid one.
Not the person you’re responding to but I think clinical studies have found that therapy alone is no more effective than no-therapy. Only meds have a clinically significant impact on depression. Therapy is not harmful, it’s just not measurably helpful in a clinically significant way.
I think this is a question where everyone will read into it their own lived experience. I think the answers you’re getting reflect whether the poster identifies more with the depressed person, their partner, or the child whose birthday party it is. And I think each of those perspectives are valid…but ultimately, you have to be able to hold all three perspectives in tension based on the situation you’re actually witnessing, if that makes sense.
I don’t know, it’s easy to say that people who can’t fake it who just stay home rather than “ruin” a kid’s party, but that also sends a message to children. I have relatives with mental illness that weren’t always fun to be around (in FAR worse ways than just being sad), but we kept including them, not at every event, but at many family occasions. That taught me an important message about not rejecting people, even when bad things happen to them. We wanted them to get better, and interacting with family and a community is one of the things that helps, even when it’s awkward.
I have been both the child and the spouse of the ill person in this scenario. I did not want the ill person there in either case because I did not want to be embarrassed by them or to have to spend the entire event monitoring and managing them. It’s a lot less of a burden to include your weird Uncle Joe at Thanksgiving than to be his wife or kid. Similarly, it’s a lot less of a burden to include an autistic guest at your child’s birthday party than to be the parent of that autistic child who has to manage the child during the party. At some point you have to have some compassion for the caregiver and let them off the hook by leaving the ill/high-needs person home.
Invite them to cookouts, sure, but a kid’s birthday party is about the kid, and you can skip inviting anyone who is incapable of doing that. (Saying this as someone whose alcoholic uncle was never invited to any of my birthday parties because he couldn’t behave.)
This is how I remember growing up, even for things like dementia if it wasn’t too disruptive that particular day. Family events were inclusive when possible (including children’s birthdays which just was not a big deal as I remember it, though the family birthday party was usually different from the friends and peers party). Maybe it would have felt more hurtful if we’d been getting the message that these people could be doing better if they’d just put a little more effort in though.
I’m Anon at 10:52 and I agree this is context dependent, even for something like a kid’s birthday party, which could be either a friends only event, a friends and family event, or a family only event. In my situation, it was extended family members, so it wasn’t like they were going to be at my birthday parties with friends regardless of their behavior, but they were invited to celebrate my birthday with family and that was fine. It was my birthday, but it wasn’t just about me, it was also about maintaining family ties and everyone showing up for each other.
I’d say the same thing goes for OP’s situation, where it sounds like it’s the kid’s parent? If it’s a kid friend party, and it really is awkward and embarrassing for the kid, maybe the parent decides not to be there sometimes. But since OP is there, is sounds like it’s also a wider family event, in which case I’d lean more toward including the parent, rather than send the message that dad doesn’t want to be there for you. Obviously my answer is different if the person is acting abusively, but just being sad isn’t the worst thing in the world.
From what I’ve learned, people with depression often feel better if they act counter to how they initially feel. Depression tells them to stay in bed. But acting like you are okay and getting showered and dressed will help you feel better, for example, which can push you in an healthier direction. Action, not just feeling or thoughts, can create positive change. I think it’s tricky to TELL someone else to do that though. I think it would have to come from a therapist or it feels like nagging/invalidation.
I don’t know if this is the *best* way to do it, but when my dad was super depressed growing up, I remember that if he was just moping then that was fine, but if he started making disparaging comments or snapping at people my mom asked him to leave and he did. I think if the guiding principle is “we’ll make room for people who are struggling, but struggling doesn’t give you a free pass to be a jerk” then you can’t go too wrong.
OP here and that’s the dynamic one family member is in – the moping is super frustrating for everyone but it’s the snapping and setting everyone on edge that is causing the most issues. We’re all going on vacation together in two weeks and everyone is concerned for how it’s going to go. The person with depression (who is in treatment) is possibly not coming because he isn’t in a place where he can manage participation.
It really sounds like it’s best if he stays home.
As a family member I absolutely would not go on this trip if the person with depression were coming.
Cancel the whole thing.
Yeah if people can’t help themselves from snapping they need to withdraw from the context where they’re snapping at people.
This is my MIL and we do not tolerate the snapping or bringing everyone else down. She’s mentally ill, and we support her when and how we can in that battle, but we do not tolerate her bringing us down or being an overall indecent human being (which is often a lot). It took us a long time to separate the two – I think we logically were able to separate the two before we could emotionally bring ourselves to do it.
Your mom spent your entire childhood policing your dad and protecting the family.
I think of “policing” as usually having a negative connotation in this kind of situation but “protecting” as having a positive connotation, and I’m curious if you mean to say that the mom was doing the right thing or the wrong thing.
I just meant her mom bore a heavy burden
I mean, not my whole childhood but many years. I honestly do not know why she didn’t divorce him; I would have. But she didn’t divorce him and they seem okay now, so it is an option.
Some people are very serious about “for better or for worse” Your mom is clearly a strong person.
As someone with depression and anxiety, I feel very strongly that you can do or feel however you want but it is 100% your responsibility to not make your illness or issues anyone else’s problem.
Show up and be a good participant or don’t stay home.
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion, everyone. I do want to clarify that I definitely don’t mean any offense or insensitivity to anyone struggling with depression. So many close people in my life have (myself in the past, my husband, my best friend in the world, my father). I’ve seen so many angles and treatment options and am so, so aware of how hard it is. It’s only more recently that I’ve begun to see a few situations where the impact on the family over a long period of time seems too severe. I mentioned downthread that someone struggling with depression is potentially not coming on a big group vacation in two weeks; I think everyone is hoping he doesn’t and that’s a bad way to feel about a loved one, but it’s also really, really bad to feel on edge constantly as he lashes out at his wife, kids, and whoever is closest on the bad days and sits there with a stony expression on his face on a good day. A vacation is meant to be enjoyable and everyone has various reasons for really needing one.
The last sentence is key. The rest of the family needs a vacation from this person! Every day, he is getting extra consideration from his nuclear family and has immense power over their lives. It will be a million times worse on vacation, where he will be out of his routine and won’t have anything to do but snipe at everyone. The last thing his family needs is the extra stress of managing him in this context. He needs to stay home. Honestly, if I were his wife I would refuse to go or to let my children go unless he stayed home.
I was listening to the Odd Lots podcast and they did a recent episode interviewing the founder of MM LaFleur on the effects of tariffs on clothing companies like hers, and I learned all kinds of interesting facts including China is starting to outsource clothing production to North Africa (I’m in Italy right now and noticed that a lot of Massimo Dutti articles are made in Morocco). The episode is called Sarah LaFleur on the Existential Threats from the Tariffs and clothing production isn’t coming back the US anytime soon, but you knew that already.
I think it’s appropriate for her to give an interview about the impact of the tarrifs, but I am really sick of MMLF’s marketing e-mails that ask me to feel sorry for the company and respond by buying clothes. Today’s was titled “the collection that made me cry.” Why was she crying over her new collection? Tariffs.
If you were a business that made it successfully through the pandemic, and then half the country voted for a President who is using tariffs as part of a bribery scheme to get approval internationally to expand his real estate empire and “investments” in his bitcoin, you might be feeling a bit down as well. He’s going to take out a bunch of small businesses as collateral damage.
It’s fine for her to feel down, but it’s pretty cynical to use that as a strategy for selling stuff.
The reality is that this may be the last shipment of goods they make, pivoting from China to another country is expensive and takes time.
I thought it was fascinating and I like her a lot after listening to it. I’ve been so so on the brand – some things I loved, some eh, but I’m definitely shopping there more in the future.
Cannot recommend The Clotheshorse Podcast enough for fashion-related information. It’ll make you never want to buy MM LaFleur or other fast fashion brands ever again.
Ok, wait, so glad that someone is talking about this.
Did not realize that she was a total nepo baby!! Read so many girl boss articles about her and she got so much hype when I was in b school.
The key to starting a successful company is not girl boss attitude it’s being the grand daughter of the PM of Japan and a mom that worked in high-end fashion.
Just really sick of people pretending to have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.
Lots of people have successful parents and go on to do nothing or flail in every venture. Just because you have resources to draw on doesn’t make the work less hard or guarantee success.
I have a package coming from a European merchant from whom I have ordered for years. Today, I had to pay a significant tariff in order for the package to be delivered via DHL. Yes, consumers are paying for the tariffs.
For those of you who self-pay for GLP-1 meds, what telehealth company have you had a positive experience with and recommend? I’ve been evaluating MIDI, 9am health, and WW, but there quite a few out there!
Unfortunately my health plan doesn’t cover but I am financially able and willing to pay.
I am currently using WW Clinic and have been pleased with the responsiveness and service. While they do ask you to enter some basic health information on a regular basis, such as blood pressure, weight, heart rate, there is no expectation to use the rest of WW, track food, etc. (If you find some accountability helpful, though, there is a different setting for food tracking that helps you focus on getting enough protein, fruits/vegetables, and water instead of tracking daily points.)
However, there is a monthly charge for WW Clinic and I am considering switching to Callondoc when my subscription expires in a couple months if my new PCP won’t take over prescribing for me. It has very good reviews in the Zepbound reddit, which is a great source of information and encouragement if that’s the med you’re considering. I know there are communities for the other meds as well.
I could have written this about WW Clinic a few months ago but beware of their turn-over, which can result in issues and delays. My insurance changed and they failed to submit my prescription timely (despite having been told that I was changing and they needed to submit before the end of the month – which they acknowledged and then just did not do). Then the pre-authorization request to my new insurance was completely botched because my “clinician” had not confirmed my medical conditions – which were in my file and had previously been confirmed by a different WW clinician. That of course led to a denial since my medical necessity was not confirmed. So now I have to appeal, which can take 30-45 days – which would not have been a problem if they had called in my prescription last month when they said they would.
Long story short, you really have to stay on top of them and their service has definitely gotten worse over the past few months.
I’m only a couple of months in, so I really appreciate this and will keep this in mind!
My provider stopped doing these yesterday given the most recent guidance on compounded medications. It’s going to become harder to get these unfortunately.
Wegovy is running full page ads in the NYT offering $199/month for self-pay, for what it’s worth. I think the other pharma companies are taking similar actions.
This is just for the first month, to help people transition.
There is a catch to this offer: $199 is for the first month’s dose (self-pay) and the doses for subsequent months is $499.
There is a savings card on the Wegovy website for those who wish to take advantage of that. You’d still need a prescription from your doctor.
Wow – that is interesting.
I use Plushcare and get Zepbound via the LillyDirect pharmacy. I’ve never used one of the compounded versions, so I can’t speak to that. It’s $499 using the self-pay option. Plushcare is $99 a month, but you can add family members for free, and we use it for things other than weight management. I’ve used it when I had covid and when I needed a refill on a heart med.
Can’t you still have your normal doctor prescribe? I don’t get the need for a telehealth company.
Yes, my internist is willing to prescribe. stick to real docs who know your full medical history
I just asked my regular doctor for a scrip but written for the Eli Lilly pharmacy. They have info for how to do it on their page. You can get 4 vials (and needles and wipes) shipped to you at a time; the online pharmacy can only go up to the second dose (.5 I believe). But when I was taking compounded stuff the med spa told me to stop there anyway.
Is there a secret to buying good peaches? I know it may still be too early in the season but in the last decade or so they taste like – well nothing. Just cold from the fridge, wet, and hard based on ripeness. DH and I were saying that growing up peaches def had a taste. And we both grew up with grocery store fruit – nothing organic or home grown.
In season and at farmers markets.
+1, if they’re sturdy enough to be shipped they’re not going to taste good.
Yes this- it’s too early to get them now. And also you definitely shouldn’t put them in the fridge unless they’re ripe, meaning slightly soft to the touch. You can talk to someone at the farmer’s market to start trying to get a feel for how “ripe” feels.
All of this.
In my upper Midwest location, peaches are very out of season until much later in the summer. I stick with canned or frozen until then.
+1 to in-season at farmers’ markets. Now is great if you’re in the Bay Area with farmers coming to your market from the Central Valley.
I’m not sure that grocery stores still get the good stuff; I try to buy from road side stands or the farmer’s market.
Either way I wouldn’t put them in the fridge if I wanted them to ripen though.
Buy them in late July/August and smell them.
+1. I don’t buy peaches unless it’s July or August and they should never go in the fridge
Peaches should stay on the counter until ripe, and I keep them there permanently…I find the fridge can make them mealy. I’d also look at farmers markets or smaller stores known for better produce (like a Trader Joe’s); the peaches I’ve had from big supermarkets are categorically bad, like you’re talking about
All this! If you put them in the fridge while they’re still hard (unripe), they will never be good.
I wouldn’t say that Trader Joe’s is known for their produce, but I have managed to consistently get good peaches and nectarines there while living in three different states. Not quite as good as the farmers market ones, but much cheaper and more convenient. Agree with everyone else, never refrigerate. I have a bag of nectarines right now that are quite good, they just needed a few days on the counter to ripen.
I actually have much better luck with nectarines than peaches on the whole, and they can be just as tasty! Maybe you want to stick to those, OP
The big crates of nectarines that TJ’s has in the summer are usually good.
I love Trader Joe’s as much as the next person, but I would never say they are known for their produce. In general, I actually find their produce to be worse than our regular supermarkets. Maybe this is regional. But I do agree that farmers markets are the way to go.
Ok, true that I didn’t really mean they are known for their produce, but I do think they have a reputation for quality control and attention to ingredients (like, not using food dyes in any products). It could be regional; I’m in the Northeast and TJ produce, meat and dairy has been consistently good for me in the 10+ years I’ve shopped there. I never buy those things at the bigger stores
Yeah, I don’t buy produce at TJ’s. It’s consistently inconsistent. Would rather buy from any other grocery store or wait until farmers’ market season.
Peaches are my favorite fruit! My secret is The Peach Truck. They started out as literally a truck that stopped in multiple cities and you could buy a large box of Georgia peaches. However, they now also have subscriptions to have peaches shipped to you weekly during the summer. I subscribe every summer. I’ve had really good luck with them. They are usually absolutely delicious and juicy. Early in the summer you might have to let them sit for a couple days to finish ripening. On the rare occasions I’ve gotten bad ones, they’ve been really good about giving me a credit against my next box. Some years have been better than others, but they generally have been excellent.
I came here to say the same! My coworkers are obsessed with The Peach Truck. I don’t like peaches but it’s all they talk about in the summer months so it must be amazing.
I love the Peach Truck, and am devastated that they are reducing their dates and locations in our area (DC suburbs.)
I got a box from Costco over the weekend that were pretty tasty. Like the poster above, I keep them out of the fridge.
The peaches at Costco are great in season. But they’re good for about one month (the season in the NorthEast). They have to ripen and stay on the counter. No fridge for peaches… ew. No fruit except grapes, berries and apples should be in the fridge…
I don’t put apples in the fridge.
Unless you’re buying them at the farmers market, most apples are stored cold for months before you buy them
Even farmer’s market apples at this time of the year have generally been stored cold since the fall.
Unwashed berries stay on the counter, too, unless you like half-dehydrated smushy things. The fruit didn’t grow in a fridge, I don’t understand why people think it needs to be refrigerated once picked.
Same! They must be an early season variety.
If you live where you have access to The Peach Truck (SE region), get them from them. Keep them on the counter. Ripen in a paper bag.
This was going to be my suggestion.
A lot of the Midwest has The Peach Truck too. I’m in Michigan and it’s huge here.
Yes, order them online. https://www.macspride.com/peaches
Even farmers market ones near me aren’t good. These ones always are
Only buy in season, and if you live somewhere that they’re grown get local peaches. There’s a peach festival near me every year and they are so so good.
I don’t think there’s a secret beyond buying them in season. In past seasons we’ve had good luck with Costco, but we have a grocery store that does the local produce thing in the summer and their peaches are the best I’ve ever eaten/most consistently high quality. Their peaches probably aren’t that special, it’s just that they are traveling <2 hours to the store. (Our younger kid will eat an entire meal of these peaches.)
You’re probably buying them at the wrong time and aren’t letting them ripen. You can also get a better variety if you’re not happy with what you’re picking. If you live near a Wegmans, get Lori Anne peaches in July/August.
Don’t buy them in May.
Do not keep in the fridge, and they are their tastiest when very soft and about 8 hours before they go completely bad. Only kidding a little bit on the latter. For the best peaches you will likely need to cut out and discard some spots where they are starting to go bad.
For me, buying local ones are the best bet. I’m in Texas, so that means later in the summer.
Hi, I’m from Georgia and have STRONG opinions about peaches. The freestone varieties are better than the clingstone; these don’t ripen until later in the summer. I pay an obscene amount of money per peach to ship myself late summer peaches from a farm near my hometown in Georgia because I am inevitably disappointed by peaches in the state I currently live in. It’s Dickey’s Peaches if you want to join in my ridiculously expensive peach purchases. The varieties that ripen in the second half of July and early August are the best in my opinion. Georgiapeachtruck.com and thepeachtruck.com also do summer road trips up the east coast if you happen to be near one of their stops. The Peach Truck sources from SC as well as GA, but I find SC peaches equally as good.
Also the peach crop has had some bad years–you basically couldn’t get any good peaches 2 years ago because they lost something like 90% of the crop to a freeze.
Just coming to say that I loved reading this post — I like peaches well enough, but I adore people who are all-in for whatever they care about, big or small. And I learned a lot! Thanks for chiming in.
Terminology question: I’m wondering if I’m hopelessly out of the loop (so I’m embarrassed to ask irl). I was at a fair over the weekend and was chatting with a stranger while waiting in line for something. She had a newborn and I’m heavily pregnant so we were talking about baby stuff. She used the term “chest feeding” when discussing her nursing her baby. I’ve heard the term used by transmen who gave birth and weren’t comfortable with referring to nursing as “breastfeeding” but I’d never heard the term used by a female-presenting person to talk about their own body. Is the term “breastfeeding” offensive or otherwise problematic now? I don’t want to offend anyone.
I was today years old when I first heard the term “chest feeding.” I have three children.
this falls in the realm of “pregnant person” for me…intellectually I understand what it’s trying to achieve, but that doesn’t make it sound less absurd.
No – breastfeeding is fine. Please.
That’s a very online conversation. Breastfeeding is the correct and accurate terminology; men and women both have breast tissue. You can’t feed a baby with your “chest” – your pecs don’t produce milk.
Overall, women are not obligated to stop using words that accurately describe their lives, bodies, and unique experiences. We also don’t have to give up words that are special and emotionally resonant. Breastfeeding is special for many women and so is the word “mother.” For so many people, mama is the first word they ever say, and often the last as well.
❤️
I agree, but also technically cis men can lactate. Galactorrhea is something they’d want to see a doctor about, but they technically have the equipment for it. Newborns of any gender can also lactate on occasion.
From their breasts
+1
Chest feeding is a dumb term. Everyone has breasts.
🩷
Breastfeeding is totally fine to use generally.
I’d only use chest feeding if someone is using it for themselves/gives some indication they are more likely to be personally comfortable using that term (ie, if talking to that same person again about how they feed their baby).
Men can get breast cancer, and it’s not called chest cancer when they do. Chest feeding is a profoundly stupid term.
+100
There are people who say it, I had a prenatal provider use it, but it seems like most people still say breastfeeding. Breasts are just a body part. It’s not like you’re saying that men cannot have breasts when you use the term breastfeeding.
I told my provider I did not want to use it which she respected.
Breast tissue is mammary tissue. It’s breastfeeding. Even if a genetically female, presenting male is feeding their child their own breastmilk, it’s still breastfeeding.
fwiw, I read this to my husband in the spirit of “what will they come up with next?!” and he said that he recently saw a man feeding a baby with some kind of contraption that positioned the bottle approximately at the man’s nipple. He wondered if that’s what “chest feeding” is. It sounds like the OP was pretty clear that the woman she was talking to meant nursing, but… another possibility.
I use breastfeeding. Men have breasts. I don’t need to erase my experience because some people have decided to pretend to be men, make the rest of us go along with it, and also have babies, a thing men do not do.
xoxoxoxox
I will have 2.5 days to myself in Tokyo after a work trip. This will be my first time in Japan. Any recommendations for must-dos and general travel tips for the area? Thank you!
Yes! Here are things to note:
– I used public transportation while there and it was great. However, I had issues with using my credit card and debit card (both US) — it’s one of the places where it’s helpful to have cash just in case.
– If you’re going to Sensō-ji (which was beautiful), aim to go early in the day before crowds.
– It’s worth making dinner reservations if you’re trying to go to one of the more popular sushi restaurants — they book up fast!
– I spent a morning at the TeamLab Borderless museum. Pre-book tickets since they’re timed slots.
YMMV: I didn’t do it, but I saw some Go Cart tours and they looked like lots of fun. Enjoy!!
Stay longer.
Sensoji Temple. It’s the most visited spiritual site in the world by some measure, and the scale was unbelieve to me. We were there on New Years Day, which is apparently an especially common day for Japanese people to visit, so I don’t know what it would be like outside that time, but it was amazing.
Sunface Spirits Bar in Shinjuku. Probably the best cocktail bars I have ever been to in the whole world. We’ve suggested like 4 other friends go there and everyone loved it.
Golden Gai. It’s this neighborhood with tiny, tiny bars—dozens of them in these ally-size streets—and each bar has just 6 or 8 seats. The all have drinks and a menu that consists of basically one or two snacks, but they all have different snacks—yakitori in one, takoyaki in another, okinomiyaki in another, etc. I would spend an evening here and make it dinner.
We live in Montreal, and are driving to Cape Cod to see family. We like to break down the drive on the way there, somewhere around half way. Last time we booked a random hotel in Concord NH and it was fine, but nothing special. Anyone know any cute places to stop for night and get a good dinner and breakfast around there? We are flexible on location, but needs to be somewhere between Southern Vermont and Northern Massachusetts, not too far from the I-89 axis.
Queechee or Woodstock in Vermont? Scenic, and there is a really nice restaurant at the Simon Pearce glassware flagship workshop in Queechee.
Hanover, NH
Assuming you’ll be coming across Vermont on I-89, I’d recommend Stowe, VT (may not be “halfway” enough) or Hanover, NH, near Dartmouth. Hanover really is lovely, especially in the summer. Along that general route you you can hit up the Ben & Jerry’s factory closer to Burlington if you need a pit stop!
Between Hanover and Concord/Manchester it really is rural – beautiful, but not a lot of cutesy towns to stop in. Maybe something around Lake Sunapee? But, again, not going to be as built out as Hanover.
If you come down I-91 to 93 through NH, you could stop in Franconia / Lincoln. Small towns but enough amenities and hotels to get the job done. Cannon Mountain is there and there’s a lovely scenic tramway that you can take to the top of the mountain. Flume Gorge is a great spot to get out and stretch the legs, even go on a full on hike if interested.
Otherwise, I think your next option would be to power through to Mass and stop in Salem. It’s pretty cool to visit at least once (I live about 15 mins away).
+1 to the above suggestions for Woodstock, Quechee, or Hanover. From there, you can easily visit Simon Pearce, Quechee Gorge, King Arthur Baking, and Dartmouth College.
+1 for Woodstock/Hanover area. My daughter and I do a fall break trip every year in the continental US and that one is our favorite destination so far. And we didn’t even get to do the King Arthur Baking stuff because she was too little.
Salem! Home of the witch trials back in the 17th century and it leans into that history. It’s quirky, off-beat, and fun for an afternoon. There are some unique hotels and bed and breakfasts in town.
The lobster shanty in Salem is amazing.
Marblehead is next to Salem and also very enjoyable.
No. Absolutely not. 0% credit. First of all, it’s far past the half-way point between Montreal and the Cape. Second, it’s 20-30 minutes farther east than the OP needs to drive to get to Cape Cod and will add traffic and hassle to her trip.
I mean, I wouldn’t strongly recommend it, but it’s really not that far out of the way off of I-93. And, traffic kind of sucks no matter what once you get in the 128 belt. Montreal to Hyannis is 6:19 per g oogle maps right now, so it’s not like you’re adding an hour to an already excruciating 20-hour drive by making this layover.
Hanover, NH is still my top rec.
Woodstock isn’t on I-89 either. I’m personally not a big fan of Salem but I don’t think driving 20 minutes out of the way for an overnight stop on a 6-7 hour road trip is a big deal.
Saratoga Springs! I promise it’s on the way and very pretty in the summer. You can go see the races.
My almost 12 grade daughter is going to a summer program at UMass Amherst in her own. The closest airport is in Hartford, CT. She has flown alone before so I’m not concerned about that part, but there’s no easy public transportation from the airport to Amherst, which is about an hour drive. Should I have her take an Uber or arrange for a ~$200 private car? Obviously I’m most concerned about her safety being alone with a male driver and being only 17 (and a sheltered one too). What would you do?
Try Valley Transporter-they’re a reliable long-term local transportation company for western Massachusetts.
+1 This service is one of the best local options (we don’t have many).
I just popped over to the UMass website (I’m somewhat local so was curious) and this is listed at their top rec for traveling from the airports
+1. I’ve used it a bunch of times and they are the best.
Hasn’t the summer program recommended a transport route?
I mean, I would never pay $200 each way for a private car. She should take a shared shuttle or public transportation.
She’s 17 years old. She is almost a legal adult. You need to start letting her mature a bit more.
There’s no public transportation option available here. It’s across state lines and MA and CT don’t really consider this area a priority.
There’s no public tr-nsit in this area.
Go with her and drive her. That’s what my parents did in a very similar situation.
+1. I’m surprised the program doesn’t require a parent or guardian to check minors in, anyway.
+2. If you don’t do this, I would definitely book a car service.
That seems overly protective. I flew alone and took a car service — actually from Hartford airport! – in my teens and so have my kids. I would book her a car service in advance though. Less because of safety and moreso because the logistics of dealing with the uber (and the fallout if she can’t get one) seem a little daunting for a teen.
That’s ridiculous. She’s 17! Many kids are traveling alone back and forth to college at that age. I have never heard of a summer program for teens that required a parent to check them in. My kid flew UM to various camps starting at age 12. Many camps do provide airport transportation, which is necessary for kids 15 and under (UM age), but a 17-year-old can manage an airport shuttle, especially if a parent arranges it.
Based on the advice here, the clear answer is to pre-book her a ride with Valley Transporter.
I’d see if the summer program has recommendations or can help her meet up with another student flying in around the same time.
I don’t think a private car would necessarily be safer than an Uber.
Also, I imagine it’s already on your checklist, but a good time for a refresher talk on safety, particularly on not having an obligation to be “polite” if someone gives creepy/unsafe vibes.
+1, this is what I did at that age 30 years ago for a summer program. It wouldn’t have even occurred to me that my parents would need to come. I was matched up with another participant and we got a car service to take us. Easy peasy and saved on the cost as well.
I came across the term ‘safety lies’ the other day in Anne Helen Peterson’s substack and it was so helpful for framing the ways women will ‘lie’. For example – in an uber/black car I agree with everything the driver says and I am never single or getting dropped off at an empty house.
If she feels more comfortable play acting this with you first please do – but strangers are NEVER owed your full and honest opinions and information especially in a situation where you are in their vehicle.
The odds are no Uber in CT will accept a ride up to Amherst. Book the car service so she isn’t stranded at the airport.
While Bradley is technically closer than Logan, I believe that there are more options from Boston. There are bus lines that go straight there, and Amtrak goes to Northampton with transfers via bus to Amherst.
There is no Amtrak from Northampton to Boston. The Northampton trains all run down through CT to NYC and then sporadically up to Burlington VT.
100% car service. Neighbor goes to Umass currently and always talks about how ubers are hit or miss in general, so you layer on Hartford to Amherst and it just feels to risky. I’d also be concerned about a driver potentially pushing back on taking an unaccompanied minor across state lines.
Does the Peter Pan bus line still exist? It was a common form of transportation from the 5 college area to the Hartford Airport
When he gets frustrated, DH either hits the table or throws something nonbreakable (like a dog toy or his wallet or whatever happens to be nearby) against a wall. He thinks this is not a big deal because he’s not hurting anyone or throwing anything at anyone. I’m trying to explain that this is not modeling good behavior to the kids and also makes people scared. Not sure if my explanation is helping. What is a better way to explain why this is unacceptable? He grew up with an actually violent dad so his perspective is skewed. Fwiw, this happens maybe 2 times a year during an argument.
Gosh, this is awful behavior. I would not be ok with this at all. I grew up with a volatile mom like this and I felt unsafe a lot. I would take this very seriously and demand a change (I know this is easier said than done). You shouldn’t have to find a better way to explain why being violent around you and your kids isn’t ok, he should get that and believe you when you tell him it’s unacceptable.
Ugh men acting like toddlers and refusing to emotionally regulate, name a more iconic duo.
Amen.
This is incredibly scary, even if he’s not physically hurting someone. It’s loud and sudden and violent. It feels like a loss of control that could be turned toward others at any moment.
I grew up in a home with emotional abuse, and this feeling of unease and impending violence was constant. I’m in my 40s and live with the scars. So, he is absolutely wrong that it’s harmless.
I truly believe that it is abusive. Anytime a person lashes out in anger like that, ESPECIALLY when he’s been asked not to, is really really not okay.
As a concrete example, my partner of 7 years has some emotional regulation issues that are triggering for me. He once punched a wall at work (he was a chef at the time, and this behavior is unfortunately tolerated some places). I told him he had to understand it was never acceptable to do that again. He has NEVER lost his temper around me, gotten loud, punched, or thrown anything. To my knowledge, he hasn’t done that in other contexts either. He works in a normal office job now and has great reviews. He learned how to soothe himself instead of lashing out. This is all to say that if your husband wanted to control the behavior, he could.
As for justifying that his behavior isn’t as bad as what he grew up with, I don’t know if maybe analogizing the fear you and your kids feel with the fear he would fear before violence erupted.
Counseling for PTSD. PTSD causes the body to flood with adrenaline, and that adrenaline is best burned off through physical activity.
That doesn’t make it okay to throw things!!
It means he needs EMDR to decrease the effects of PTSD and counseling to help him find a better outlet.
If he can’t understand why violence is unacceptable then I would not be comfortable being married to him.
I’m so sorry. I’ve run across this in past relationships. His mom told me, well if he’s punching the wall then he’s not punching you, as if that’s a good thing. Some people have a very low bar for acceptable behavior.
It’s troubling that he won’t accept your position that this is unacceptable. Does he act this way at work? Probably not. Why does he give himself permission to act this way at home? Have you asked him these types of questions? If you haven’t read it, Why Does He Do That? is free online.
ExH looked at me while getting a doorframe. So glad I got out before I was the doorframe.
Hitting not getting. Autocorrect is annoying.
Yup, it’s almost never, he excuses himself to another room to quietly vent his anger on a pillow. He does it in front of you. It’s intended to be intimidating.
I’d divorce someone over this and I don’t care if people call me dramatic. It doesn’t have to be hurting someone physically to be violent.
I would too. It either stops the first time we talk about it or I’m out. I won’t live like that.
+1m
The line between violence towards objects in the home and violence directed at people is paper thin. And even if you buy that “hitting the wall is better than hitting you” you could very easily accidentally hurt someone with that sort of behavior, even if you “didn’t mean to.”
If your kids are in daycare, have him ask the teachers how they would handle it if your kids started acting like that. If a toddler gets sent to the calm down corner or whatever, surely he’d see that it is not acceptable behavior from a grown man.
I mean, it’s common advice to redirect kids to things they can punch and throw (like pillows and balls) rather than people or breakable things. I agree with your point that a grown adult should have more self-control, but physical movement as a way to discharge anger isn’t categorically bad
Yeah I honestly don’t see this as a big deal. Mental Health America actually has “throw or break something safely” as number one on their 10 Healthy Ways to Release Rage list
Thank you for pointing this out.
For me, the difference is that OP has asked him not to do this in front of her or the kids. He continues doing it, knowing it’s scary for them. It would be different if he removed himself from the situation and went out back to chop wood or something.
Exactly, Anonymous at 11:54. Going into a private room and punching a pillow is extremely different from throwing something in front of the kids, especially after being asked to stop.
Oh, I assumed that her husband was getting angry and throwing/hitting things in the moment. Like a kid having a temper tantrum. Which would be very not appropriate in a school or work setting, or really even in a home setting. But if he is stepping aside and going to a safe space to throw his wallet, then that seems better?
It is bad if it’s in front of other people.
I’m going to go against the grain and say that if this is happening only two times a year, I wouldn’t view it as a huge problem. We all lose control sometimes, and throwing a dog toy against the wall or slapping a table, while not the most productive way of channeling anger, isn’t destructive. It seems he is working really really hard to overcome his past.
If the rest of the year he stays in control and is a loving and kind husband and father, this wouldn’t bother me. We are all human.
Perhaps it would be best for both of you to take heated arguments behind closed doors, so to speak, so your kids don’t have to watch? It’s great for kids to see healthy disagreements modeled, but there are a lot of adult conversations that aren’t meant to be had in front of them
I also agree with this. I grew up in a house where yelling/emotional outbursts were very common, throwing was not infrequent, and on a few occasions a hole appeared in a wall. So I get how damaging it can be to be exposed to someone else’s unregulated emotions and anger, and feel constantly on edge.
I think OP’s husband needs to take her concerns seriously–the way she stated it is perfect–and needs to work on self-regulation. I also think that he needs to be sure this doesn’t happen in front of kids. That being said, I can’t get on board with the idea that this is abusive and divorce worthy.
I agree with this.
I agree also.
I would 100% bet that this is not happening “once or twice a year”. I have been there – divorced now.
Ok but that is what OP wrote. It’s also gaslighting to tell someone that oh no, it couldn’t possibly be happening as you say and it must be worse. There’s a lot of extrapolating going on here
+1
Agreed. Also my dad did this occasionally but infrequently when I was a kid (less than once/year on average I would guess). It’s totally possible for it to happen and not be a regular occurrence.
strong disagree. this was my dad growing up – *truly* only a couple times across my entire childhood, never was physical with another person, but I could tell you every detail about those times he threw/broke something in front of us clear as day, decades later. Choose better for your kids.
The best way to explain that it’s not acceptable is to not accept it and leave him.
He needs therapy and I would move out/separate/divorce if he refused.
I agree with the others who have said that this behavior is not acceptable. While this behavior could be isolated, I’m also curious whether there are other signs of additional covert abuse occurring. Look at the power and control wheel by the national domestic violence hotline. “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy is a great book. Look up signs of covert abuse. At worst, you have reassured yourself that this is not a bigger issue and are more aware of other signs, but, it could also be part of a pattern that undergirds your relationship.
In terms of ways to tell him that his behavior is not ok, I would say, “When you throw things, it scares me and I’m not ok with that. Your behavior is not showing our kids a healthy relationship.” If he does anything other than accept that you are scared and change his behavior, I refer you back to my first paragraph.
This is not abuse
Wow. Yes it is.
To hell it’s not.
Signed,
Survivor of childhood abuse and an abusive marriage, wherein neither abuser ever threw things.
Slapping a table once a year?! (And throwing a dog toy another single time?!) C’mon people, you’ve literally never thrown down a towel or let out a scream or SOMETHING in a moment of anger?
There might be something going on (like PTSD, as another commenter mentioned) but it doesn’t seem like he’s threatening to erupt at any time and wife is living on tenterhooks.
@11:52. No, I have 100% never done this in front of a child. Have you?
Actually, it is abuse.
Can you explain why? I am genuinely asking.
Read any of the other responses on this thread.
No, these responses don’t explain why it’s abuse. Some explain why the behavior can have negative impacts, but that’s not the same as explaining why it is abuse. Unless you’re telling me that every behavior that upsets someone else or impacts them emotionally is abuse?
And to be clear, I’m not arguing that the behavior is okay, or that OP’s husband should not stop.
Oh, so you’re just playing devil’s advocate then. Everyone loves a devil’s advocate.
Not OP of this thread, but it is threatening and intimidating, and intended (whether consciously or not) to influence the witness’ behavior. I guess opinions might vary as to whether that “counts” as abuse. To me it would be intolerable regardless of definition.
No, I am not playing devil’s advocate. This is a genuine question. I really don’t understand why you don’t think this is a genuine question or won’t give a serious, thoughtful response.
Thanks to anon at 12:35 for offering a serious response.
I’ll try to answer the question. The person who described it as waiting for a balloon to pop described it well. It’s like watching a pot simmer. Will it boil over this time?
Throwing and punching things twice a year does not mean I’m afraid of you only twice a year. It means every time you get that look on your face — the one I’ve learned to look out for — I fear if this is going to be one of those times. What will happen this time? Is it going to be worse? Am I going to be the punched pillow this time? My fear reaction happens far more than twice a year. The once or twice a year just tells me I’m right to continue to be afraid every single time he gets That Look.
So no, it’s not “only once or twice a year” that this behavior is a problem. The behavior is a problem every time it happens because it reinforces and amplifies my fear.
I meant to add – that fear reaction I have throughout the year? That’s a feature not a flaw. If he needed to vent, he would do it away from me in another room where I can’t see or hear it. He does it in front of me because it’s intended to intimidate me. It’s intended to reinforce that he should be able to give me That Look and I should back down, back off, and comply with whatever he wants or needs in the moment. He “loses control” to remind me of my place — under his thumb, cowering from him, catering to him, thinking myself responsible for his emotional regulation.
To 12:22
He’s choosing to express his feelings in a manner that is physically acting out, even though his partner has asked him not to – that is not okay. He is choosing to express himself in a violent manner, even though he knows that physical violence is very damaging. He is choosing to undermine his partner’s wishes.
All of these things can be considered abusive. OP doesn’t say if it’s predictable or unpredictable whether he’ll act out like this in front of them – he *could* choose to leave the room, but chooses not to – but the uncertainty can in itself be psycologically abusive, and the uncertaintly can be as frightening as the act itself. If the family learns to regulate their behavior to avoid future outbreaks, that’s abusive as well.
There is nothing stopping him to go have his tantrum in private. He is choosing to have an audience.
It can be a dealbreaker. It can be something you don’t like and you express that to him. It can be something you teach your kids not to do alk while not being abuse.
Woof this thread is bringing out the pick mes.
Nothing in here has anything to do with being a pick-me.
I don’t think you understand what that means.
I do. There’s plenty of comments demeaning women who demand basic respect and emotional regulation because they are seeking male validation.
Can you please point out specifically which comments are demeaning women who demand basic respect and emotional regulation?
Who is seeking male validation?
Oh yes, lots of us seeking male validation posting anonymously on a women’s fashion site. I sure hope the boys like me!
For me this behavior is extremely intimidating and would be a dealbreaker, so in your shoes, I would be very explicit and say that I will not live in a house where adults behave like this, and I refuse to raise my kids in such an environment. I’m not going to be in a situation where I have to worry that a man twice my size can’t control himself physically. It cannot happen again or there will be a change to the living arrangements.
I just don’t believe that men are unable to control this type of behavior. They’re able to behave at work, and they can do it at home if they care to. There’s a huge difference between excusing yourself to go to another room and strangle a pillow behind closed doors versus spontaneously slamming a table or throwing the nearest object at a wall in front of your family.
This happens way too much at work too (always men)
I’m anon at 12:03 and I agree to an extent, but like what’s happening at OP’s house, they do it when they think there won’t be consequences. I’ve seen many male litigators allow themselves to get emotionally dysregulated in front of coworkers or opposing counsel, but lo and behold they’re able to behave perfectly well in court.
Yep they selectively emotionally regulate and only lash out when they have the power to get away with it. Which means it’s a CHOICE, they want to instill fear.
Why do you conclude that they want to instill fear?
Have you told him it makes YOU scared? Regardless of whether he thinks you should just be able to brush it off, tell him that it makes you feel less safe and like he might take it further than what he’s doing now. Tell him that when he does that in an argument with you, it feels like a threat.
FWIW, I think we’ve all had moments of extreme frustration and needed catharsis, I used to scream in my car when I was driving alone, when I was post-partum and totally fed up. Maybe you both can brainstorm other ways that he can handle the feeling that works better for the both of you and your household.
+1 I am the person painted as a “pick me” but I think this is where I’m coming from…nowhere in the post did OP mention feeling afraid or worried for her safety or that it’s impacting life beyond twice a year. She is focused on the modeling for the kids, and to me that is something different. If OP is scared, then that does change my read on the situation! But I wouldn’t worry that a twice a year occurrence is going to mess up the kids if he handles things well the other 363+ days of the year. And yes, your phrasing is a good way to approach the convo
It might not scare OP but I’m sure it scares the kids and it will leave a mark, they won’t forget.
My dad this a few times in my childhood; it didn’t traumatize me and isn’t something I ever think about as an adult except when I see discussions about it here. It’s for sure not ideal behavior but I think it’s a huge stretch to call it abuse.
If only he would pre-schedule the twice a year explosions, ha. If you never know when it’s coming, then it’s kind of a constant eggshell situation…like waiting for a balloon to pop.
Okay, but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion (or even likely) that throwing a dog toy (er, sorry, “explosions”) twice a year will lead to an environment where everyone is walking on eggshells all the time.
I guess that’s not my experience of it (as a child). If your parent is generally a warm and safe person you don’t go around wondering, and you give them a lot of grace when they mess up. He’s not exploding AT the kids, but I agree the arguments need to be stopped and taken into private (ideally with a cool-down period). But we clearly don’t have all the details and our opinions are colored by our own histories!
I think twice a year is a lot different than something happening with more frequency. Is it ideal? Of course not. Should he go into another room or something when he’s flooded with emotion so the kids don’t have to see it? Yes. But I wouldn’t label this as abusive unless there’s a lot more to the story here.
I see this as a man who
Is breaking the cycle who twice a year hits or throws an inanimate object. I see no issue.
You can insist he not do it in front of you by walking out of the room and ending the conversation ig he’s getting upset.
OP has asked her husband to stop this, and he has continued to do it anyway. That means it is intentional. That means he knows it is producing a negative response in her, and he elects to do it anyway. And–in front of children. There is objectively no rational basis from which to defend his actions. Also, there are numerous studies available that show that physical violence towards another human being is almost always preceded by violence towards inanimate objects.
OP, take your kids and go. Tell him to get help. If he doesn’t, leave him for good. The cycles of abuse are real, and your children deserve better.
What app do you like for planning your outfits? I’m looking for something where I can upload pictures of everything in my closet, including jewelry, bags and shoes, and have it plan outfits for me based on the occasion and weather.
Since watching Clueless in 1996 I have wanted a program that does this. I don’t think anything like that exists (yet).
Indyx!!! I uploaded all my clothes, shoes, jewelry, and accessories earlier this year. The app is easy to use, and it has a lot of cool features like a calendar, tagging, and cost per wear.
The app itself doesn’t plan for me, but you can pay a fee for a stylist to send either 10 looks at once or 2 looks per week. I’ve been doing the second option, and I’ve built up enough that I lean on those or I have the confidence to make my own outfits now that I see what elements are good.
There’s also an option in the app for community styling! I haven’t tried those yet, but the pics I’ve seen on social media are great. I think that option is free, but not positive.
Indyx – it’s what a lot of substackers I follow use.
I use stylebook, and have had that one for years and years. It’s a pay once, use forever kind of app. It’s not super fancy, but I still like it.
I have looked into wearing and indyx as well. Indyx has some interesting features, but I did not like how they don’t let know what the costs are (subscriptions for advanced features), and the homepage will send you in circles if you try to find out costs without downloading the app.
If I were to use indyx it would be to use their personal stylist services to give advice based on my uploaded wardrobe. I do not want to have a subscription to use or have access to stats in a meaningful way, though, so chose not to use indyx since the normal features I like and would want is subscription extra fee. If I could have paid once to have stats features, I might have switched, but a subscription fee is not interesting to me. Wearing didn’t seem to have more features than the app I already have, but seemed to be free.
I don’t know if I need therapy or a career coach or what, but it’s an issue that’s been bugging me for a long time. My job involves quite a few sprints throughout the year when I’m so busy I can barely keep up for 2-6 weeks, but I power through because of adrenaline and anxiety. When these sprints happen are not within my control; they are due to special events and leadership priorities. Then when the sprint is over, I crash for several weeks. I can barely get anything done, even the easiest stuff. There is lots of staring at my computer screen. It does not feel good or even restful, and it goes on long enough that I start getting a backlog of work (which I then have to push myself to do). How do I manage this better? My ability to handle this work style is getting worse with time, not better. I’m in my 40s, btw. If I can take a day or two off, that helps, but it has not fully solved the problem.
I mean…it sounds like your body and brain is responding exactly the way a middle age body and brain should react to this sort of stimulus. Reduce the sprints or accept the crash.
+1 but this happened to me in college after my big senior art show, perhaps to a lesser degree. I think it is normal.
To what extent is the job forcing this on your versus you doing this to yourself? Meaning, are you REQUIRED to work at 150% and subsist on adrenaline and anxiety during these sprints, because the entire team is working 24/7 and you’ll get fired / demoted / laid off / not promoted if you don’t, or could you work at 110% like everyone else is doing and be OK?
If I don’t work like this, the work literally won’t get done. So, no, I don’t think it’s self-inflicted.
What level of responsibility/ authority do you have here? Are you a team member, a manager, or the lone employee making it all happen?
How many hours a week do you work during these sprints?
Mid-level manager, who is trying to interpret what the higher-ups want and deliver. In addition to delegating what I can, our team is small enough that I also am involved in the actual work, for better or for worse.
Is your work amenable to comp time? Take an actual full day off from work after the sprints.
Internet stranger thoughts – how’s your ADHD doing? I do great with a firehose sprint and burn myself out, then struggle with getting anything that is not “interesting” done after that. Not the most functional way to address it, but I would cope with a similar job by taking a good week off after each sprint so that I had time to go explore somewhere on holiday and frankly, have enough normal stuff build up so that there were things that “had to” get done again.
Don’t know if I have ADHD, but I definitely am anxiety-prone. So I am just not chill during these sprints, no matter how hard I try.
I’ve unexpectedly found myself in a similar situation after getting a new manager. After 1.5 years of this I can say with confidence that a lot of the sprinting is due to bad management above me. Like right now we could be doing things to prepare for an impending program rollout. I’m trying to push these things (user access, pilots, feedback, mockups) and hitting a brick wall. I know that after saying no to me for months there will be a push to get everything done in 3 weeks, then pikachu faces all around when a pile of downstream issues and rework that could have been prevented materialize out of thin air. I have voiced my frustration very clearly to my boss. He doesn’t care or see the problem. I’ve started conversations with skip-level. And, of course, I’m looking for a new job. But my point is – maybe you have a slightly better boss – evaluate whether the sprinting is truly necessary and see if you can insert yourself at the front end during planning phase.
I went to Bloomingdales yesterday prepared to spend any amount of money to buy a few summer things that made me feel terrific (my daughter’s graduation, a birthday dinner…) i came home demoralized and empty handed. Tried on a Ted baker dress with arm holes so wide you could see entire breast, summer dress that looked cute until i tried on and realized there was a one inch gap running down the front held together by bows (someone posted about this trend a week or so ago, WTH so impractical). Aqua which is their own brand and i usually find sort of cute and on trend all looked like nightgowns…. what is a person to put on their body these days!>!>!
I, too, have been traumatized by every single one of those items. I have been shopping for mother-of-the-bride dresses and pre-wedding event dresses for months, and I guess we’re just all letting our boobs hang out these days? I am confident no one wants to see mine, but still-I need clothes. I am willing to spend substantial amounts of money on said clothes. And I am finding nothing.
op here. agreed! and i had a masectomy and my breasts don’t move at all and i wouldn’t wear this stuff.
Online at Natori or Tadashi Shoji.
The fashion department store sounds like the problem. I’d try stores like Ann Taylor, j crew, banana republic, Talbots, BHLDN, etc
+1
Check out Tuckernuck
Aqua is a young adult brand. The target demographic is teens and 20 year olds.
Also try for casual: Frank and Eileen shirt dresses, J. McLaughlin
For dressy: Net a Porter, Tuckernuck
Look at Staud. They always have some classic summer dresses that hit the sweet spot between festive and casual.
Woof this thread is bringing out the pick mes.
+1000
What do you do when you’re waiting to hear about a job after an interview and you’re anxious and can’t concentrate on anything?
Apply for more jobs.
Go for a run.
What is supposed to happen to someone with serious mental illness who has no one to live with? No family or partner and friends are not willing to uproot their lives for this. What are the options? Who can navigate this for them? And do they go on disability/welfare/SNAP if they cannot work? If they have dual citizenship with a country with free healthcare but no family/friend support system, are they better off going there?
In the US, they end up homeless if they do not have assets or they cycle through assisted living/group home situations if there is someone willing to pick up the bill for the cost difference between their benefits and the cost (I say cycle through because if their illness is serious they are likely to be asked to leave at some point or just walk out the door because they would rather be homeless than deal with rules and restrictions).
In terms of whether they are better off in another country, that depends on what you mean by “free healthcare”. Does that include mental illness? Does it include supportive housing? People who are completely disabled and/or over 65 in the US are often Medicare eligible so it is not “health care” that is the problem as much as housing.
That said, all of this is really fact specific depending on age, location, veteran status, social security/disability/Medicare eligibility, and the severity of their mental illness and whether it includes a substance abuse component. It is hard to generalize.
If they qualify, small group homes are an option. I have a family member with schizophrenia and they live in a group home with 2 other men. Social worker comes several times per week to check in and for support.
They end up homeless and their mental illness gets significantly worse because the US social safety net is nonexistent.
My mentally ill distant relative (who had a free place to live) started getting into physical fights with the neighborhood weirdos and ended up in county jail on an assault charge. It’s very sad but they will probably cycle in and out of incarceration because they are just “with it” enough to decline treatment but not well enough to understand they need help. It’s very sad and she’s old enough that her elderly parents can’t help forever and her closer-in-age family members have had enough.
In a Scandi country they will get disability/welfare, free healthcare, county assisted housing or hospital and public guardian if needed.
A lot of the time they end up in and out of jail.
Ethics question for this esteemed group: I recently inherited ivory earrings and a necklace with some ivory elements, both of which most likely date from the mid-1900’s (i.e. as I understand it pre- legal restrictions on ivory trade, but post-“you should know better,” IMO). I am not interested in ever wearing them.
I know I can’t sell them, but throwing them away or donating to a Goodwill where they’re just as likely to end up in a landfill as being enjoyed by another person also don’t seem like great options either. What would you do? Donate them and make a $100 contribution to a wildlife charity to offset my ethical discomfort?
You can sell antique ivory. I don’t really understand the ethical discomfort (and I say that as a vegan). The animal is already dead and you can’t undo the bad actions of other people. Personally if the items were good enough quality for a museum that would be my first option, if not I would sell to a private collector.
Vegetarian, and I don’t get wound up about anything wherein the animal would have long ago died of old age.
In the OP’s position, I would sell them, give them to a museum, etc.
It depends on the age of the of item, amount of ivory and the state you’re in. You may also need documentation that the ivory was harvested or imported before 1976. Here’s a summary: https://estatesales.org/university/estate-sale-ivory-sales
OP, if you think the items are valuable (real gold, etc) it might be worthwhile to talk to an appraiser. If not, you could a) see if any of your friends/relatives want them or b) donate to the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which ensures ivory items will not re-enter the market: http://jvclegal.org/what-can-i-legally-do-with-my-ivory/
There is no ethics issue here. It sounds like you view them as junk, so dispose of them however you dispose of junk.
yeah, OP’s concerned about them winding up in a landfill is a red herring. A necklace and earrings is not what we talk about when we talk about environmental waste crisis. You should have zero guilt about throwing them away. Honestly the ethical question is whether to keep them in circulation.
Just keep them in a jewelry box kept somewhere separate. You can make a separate donation to a wildlife charity if you want. You might find a use for them later that aligns with your comfort level.
Agreed, family heirlooms should be kept for future generations where possible. Ask around to see if someone else wants them if you don’t want to store them.
related/unrelated. my mom inherited two mink coats. she has now passed. what does one do with a real mink coat?
Check with an animal shelter? They might be able to use as bedding.
I have this question too. I’m going to own 2 fur coats when my stepmom dies – they belonged to her mother and are in great condition. I would wear them except I live in the south and barely wear a coat in the winter now (even though I’m nearly a life-long vegetarian who doesn’t support fur trade, these coats are at least 50 years old, so the ethical ship has sailed). I don’t know what I’ll do with them.
Goodwill. Someone will buy for their etsy or poshmark shop. There’s a market for vintage furs.
donate it. sell it. it was 45 degrees last week and raining at my daughter’s prom and a classmate was wearing an old mink and honestly it looked sort of fabulous. i’m sure it was in someone’ closet and not her’s.
I would probably wear it to stay warm, if I liked the style. Again, the animals are already dead, so disposing of the items feels more disrespectful to me than using and appreciating them. I would never buy new fur, and if I were a celebrity or other influencer I’d probably give this a lot more thought due to the increased likelihood of inspiring new fur purchases, but no one is looking to me for style inspo.
Wear it?
Wear them if you want to. Otherwise, donate or sell. As others have mentioned, there is a market for vintage furs.
Thank you for those who said there is a market for vintage fur. I rarely shop and was not aware of this. Of course it seems obvious, but I wasn’t thinking about that. I’ll probably sell the coats when I inherit them because I won’t wear them with my current lifestyle and the climate I live in. Otherwise I would because they are beautiful.
Wear it or donate it. Fur is warm and it’s better for the environment to wear an existing coat than to buy a new synthetic one. Some people turn old fur coats into pillows but there’s no utility in that.
I wear them.
My friend had her mother’s mink made into a throw. She cuddles under it on the couch. The animals are dead already – may as well get some practical use out of them.
I don’t understand the reticence to donating to Goodwill or the Salvation Army on this board. Yes, they want your rare and antique ivory necklaces and mink coats and old books. These things will not end up in the landfill because lots of people see the value in them even if you don’t!
I haven’t seen the reticence posts, but I would (and do) rather donate to a charity shop close to me, including the Salvation Army, rather than a commercial thrift shop if it’s a valuable item that I want to serve a second purpose as income to the charity.
If I’m just decluttering in bulk and need to get stuff out of the house, I’m very happy to donate a commercial thrift shop as an alternative way to recycle fully usable goods. In those instances I think they are doing me a service, and I’m very happy for them to profit.
I have a couple of ivory pieces, the kind of coffee-table trinkets that may (or may not) even be elephant ivory. I keep them at the back a shelf in my office because I don’t want to trash them but I think that they aren’t attractive enough to be in front. If I had ivory jewelry pieces, I’d probably either wear them or ask my jeweler if he wanted them as a gift.
It really bothers me when people get all bent out of shape about things that they did not do like this. You didn’t originally buy them. This is a long over wrong. Getting personally worked up about it is performative. If you don’t want to wear, that’s totally fine and I understand that. If you don’t want to sell/profit, I respect that too. If there’s someone else in your family who might want them, pass them on. If not, that’s what the trash is for. Do you also freak out about throwing away raw chicken that’s out of code?
Give them to me! I believe in safeguarding things like this for future generations.