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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
We're liking this tweed skirtsuit from Ann Taylor. Love the seaming on the pencil skirt (as well as the “touch of stretch”), and love the 60s vibe to the jacket. The jacket (Tweed Jacket) is $108, and the skirt (Tweed Seamed Skirt) is $108.
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JDK10
I LOVE this suit! However, the website has the jacket priced at $218. Is there a sale going on that I don’t know about?
LegallyBlonde
Friends and Family, 30% off.
Anonymous Today
Yeah, I’m wondering if that’s a misprint by Kat. Even with the 30% off, the jacket is $153, not $108.
HotInTheCity
Like the suit, but would the short jacket make a short person look even shorter?
Also, are the sleeves appropriate in a very formal office?
Anonymous Today
I think it would depend on whether you’re short-waisted, short-legged, or just short all over. Although, the visual line would probably prevent some of the shortening effect of the jacket, if the suit is always worn as a whole.
Shayna
I’m not sure how appropriate the sleeves are but if you’re short (and I write this as a 5’2″ woman), odds are the sleeves will come *almost* to your wrist but not quite, giving you a this-shrunk-in-the-wash look that’s less than flattering…
anano
I am short, and actually find that short jackets work better for me. Long (or “normal” length) jackets often make me look like I am a little kid trying on her mom’s jacket. Shorter jackets look more proportional. YMMV. I do think that the sleeves may be a bit odd on shorter arms though.
nonA
My office is “suits every day” and this would be fine. I wouldn’t wear it to court or a big client meeting, but its more than fine for day-in, day-out office wear.
3L
I’m an hourglass (specifically, wide hips, an “untoned” behind, and broad but bony shoulders), and I think things you pointed out would make the jacket look really odd on me. The shorter length of the jacket causes it to be boxy, so it won’t come in at the waist to “show off” my thinnest feature, and shorter tops also tend to emphasize my out-of-proportion hips and rear. And those sleeves look like they would be so baggy on my arms–I always look like I’m wearing a men’s jacket because my sleeves are too baggy, and the shorter cut of these looks even worse than my regular suits. My twiggy forearms would be swimming in those sleeves.
I suspect that skirt wouldn’t be too flattering on my hips/behind either, so this one probably just isn’t for me. It’s too bad, because I really like the fabric–but I’m sure there’s a body type this flatters, and y’all enjoy :)
D
LOVE IT. Wish I had $$$ :(
SF Bay Associate
Ann Taylor’s friends and family is this week – use “friends” to get 30% off and free shipping over $100.
I ordered the navy pinstripe suit (jacket, pants – trying both signature and modern-, and skirt) http://www.anntaylor.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=26696&N=1200008&pCategoryId=3939&categoryId=179&Ns=CATEGORY_SEQ_179&loc=TN&defaultColor=Dark Navy&defaultSizeType=Regular, and a few tops to try. I went to AT on Monday, and found that their pants and top sizing is consistent with JCrew, and one size smaller than BR (AT 4= BR 6). I didn’t try on any jackets or skirts.
In store, I picked up http://www.anntaylor.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=26465&N=1200006&pCategoryId=3939&categoryId=181&Ns=CATEGORY_SEQ_181&loc=TN&defaultColor=Primrose&defaultSizeType=Regular, which was very flattering on though probably not roomy enough for those of ample bosom. I also tried on http://www.anntaylor.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=26556&N=1200006&pCategoryId=3939&categoryId=181&Ns=CATEGORY_SEQ_181&loc=TN&defaultColor=Black&defaultSizeType=Regular, which was bizarrely too long for my very long torso. Fabric looked nice though.
SF Bay Associate
Also possibly relevant to some corporettes – Ann Taylor has again been caught red handed with serious photoshopping.
http://jezebel.com/5603467/a-model-gets-photoshopped-before-your-very-eyes?skyline=true&s=i
Shayna
There is something uber creepy about just how small they make her waist!
Shayna
This was supposed to be in reply to the Jezebel link, which shows a photo of a girl in a tank top whose ribs have been photoshop-ically removed
anano
I find it really creepy too. I just don’t understand what makes these companies look at a model who is already very thin and decide that no, she needs to be even thinnner, and not just thinnner, but impossibly thin. Do they really think that this makes us want to buy more clothes? I would much rather buy from companies that don’t do this kind of BS.
(This reminds me of a feature Boden had on their website a few months ago where they had actual Boden employees (not models) wearing some of their favorite items from that season. It included people of many different sizes, and even one pregnant women in one of their dresses. I really wish more companies would do things like that.)
anano
Hmmm… I thought I was replying to Shayna’s comment above. Looks like something odd might be going on with the comments.
KelliJ
Something is weird with comments. If you notice some of the times on certain posts are out of order.
AIMS
yes! it’s a total twilight zone of comments.
lawDJ
Too funny because I think Ann Taylor was praised for doing exactly that on their facebook page. They’ll do anything!
EM
Brooks Brothers went hog wild too, photoshopping their Golden Fleece images. Very bewildering, because I think the models look dreadful. And this, they think, will sell more clothes?
L
Anyone know why the Jezebel site looks so funny when I open it? It always has tiny pictures and big headlines.
Legally Brunette
SF Bay, how was your Nordstrom personal shopper experience??
SF Bay Associate
Disappointing, unfortunately. I was there for almost three hours and bought only a dress that I will end up returning. My pear shape and bus casual career do not suit what Nordstrom has in stock at the moment. Interestingly, the stylist used to be a biglaw attorney, but her practice group disappeared from under her when her partners lateralled, so she took stock of her life and decided to do something she liked. I said ooh, inspiring and she laughed. She said all her non-attorney clients look at her like she’s crazy, and all her attorney clients are impressed.
In retrospect, I should have been communicating with her a lot more from the beginning. When I first went into my room and saw all these “soft” looking outfits (ruffles, floral prints, etc), I immediately got frustrated. I didn’t like the shoes she pulled, or the necklaces. The outfits all looked nice, but didn’t say attorney to me.
I tried on the clothes and got increasingly frustrated because as I expected, I didn’t like them. After about the first hour she made a polite comment that since I hadn’t let her see me in anything yet, she didn’t have any feedback to hone in on. Good point. So, after that, I pretty much kept the door open a crack and she came in and out as I dressed in various items (I’m not that modest when it comes to dressing rooms). Once I started communicating with her, I felt better about the experience and I think she did too.
She pulled a lot of suits for me to try. I now have a personal vendetta against Theory. The jackets fit *wonderfully,* but the ($200 and unlined!!!) pants… I went up three sizes before they didn’t strain against my size 4 at JCrew thighs and hips, and then would of course need heavy alterations to fit correctly elsewhere. And even with the pinning, it still didn’t look right.
Once I let the PS in, physically and mentally, she was able to start pulling things (aside from Theory) that fit better. I just didn’t like them. She also was able to see what alterations could do, and brought in the tailor. I really appreciated the PS’s alterations eye, and quick access to the tailor. She was also frank about things that did not suit me, which I appreciated. “We can do better for you than this.” I didn’t feel pressured to buy. The dress that she pulled that I ended up buying will fit great after some alterations, but in retrospect, I just don’t like the print (Classiques dress in plaid – reminds me of catholic schoolgirl). But then again, the whole point of a PS was to stretch my boundaries, so maybe I will keep it.
After I left the appointment, I roamed the store alone. I didn’t find anything that I loved on my own, so I think she was just working within a selection that was rather doomed from the start. However, I liked her as a person, and after three hours and seeing me in many different things, she has a good idea about what fits me. I asked her to call me if things came in that she thought would work for me. I’d be willing to see her again in a few months, when new/different stock is in.
If you get a PS appointment, I suggest going to the biggest store in your area. I went to a tier-2 Nordstrom, and I think that limited the PS’s ability to find things for me. I should have driven farther and gone to the downtown SF store instead.
Legally Brunette
This is really helpful, thanks. Which is the Tier 2 Nordstrom, the one in Walnut Creek? I think I’ve been to that one. I haven’t been to the SF one.
I greatly dislike Theory. It simply isn’t a good fit for my pear shape and even when I went up a few sizes it didn’t work for me. I love Classsiques everything though and just recently bought a dress that I really like.
I’m sorry that you didn’t find more that you liked, but it’s good to know that you didn’t feel pressured to buy. At the very least, the PS knows your body shape now and will hopefully call you once better inventory comes in. I was very disappointed with the Anniversary Sale and was surprised that I couldn’t find more that I liked.
E
Pear shape here. Can’t wear Theory. Love Classiques. I think the bigger Nordstroms are better if you’ve got more restrictions. The difference between flagship Nordstroms in Seattle and suburban Nordstrom in Seattle is amazing. I only go downtown. The downtown SF one may have more of what you were looking for. I really appreciate your honesty about the difficulties in letting people in, both physically and emotionally. I have a lot of insecurities about my body (ok, which woman doesn’t, but you know) and how I look in what I term “grown-up” clothes, and letting someone help me evaluate can be extremely difficult at times.
SF Bay Associate
I was at one of the following: Corte Madera, Stonestown, Hillsdale, or Stanford. I think Walnut Creek is similar. Is it silly to try to preserve a bit of anonymity? I don’t know. Those are all pretty comparable in selection, I think. Maybe in a few months, I’ll set up a new appointment with downtown SF, but it’s a pita to get there. I’m going to trial in the fall so I really wanted to not have to worry about clothes once trial prep gets going in a couple weeks. I did *really* like how I just walked into a fitting room full of clothes. That could be a real time saver.
I’ve taken Theory off my Shop It To Me and am now considering trolling ebay for Classiques in my size. Interestingly, the Joe’s Jeans “provocative” fit (the “petite” fit; I’m 5’6″) fit great.
I think you were also interested in the Cole Haan boots – I could zip them (barely), but agree with another commenter that the ankles were floppy, plus the shaft was too high for my legs (a problem I’ve never encountered before). No matter, JCrew extended calf boots are back in stock in fall and I will try a pair of those.
Legally Brunette
CE is on my ebay list but unfortunately most of the stuff listed tends to be dated and often times pre-owned. You should also check out Nordstrom Rack if there is one near you. I don’t have one close by unfortunately, but I wish I did.
anon
I think the Stanford one is fairly comparable to downtown, but the others are meh. Downtown has a great selection, comparable to the seattle flagship. I love the downtown nordstrom, but I work downtown :)
shopaholic
I think there’s a Nordstrom Rack in Oakland (but if downtown SF is a pita to get to, this might be worse). You can really get some awesome deals at the Rack. Maybe there’s one closer to you?
Anonymous
Reading this, it sounds like you are just the eeeeeeeensiest bit picky and maybe you didn’t make the most of the personal shopper. It sounds like she tried to break out of your mold a little bit and you didn’t like what she picked because it wasn’t to your taste – but you wanted a personal shopper in the first place because you wanted to try things outside of your usual taste. Maybe next time bring a friend with you who can offer her objective opinion of the clothes? It can be hard to evaluate yourself when you’re wearing things that are outside of your comfort zone, and it can be hard to trust the opinion of a personal shopper who works on commission. Just a thought…
EE
Yes, Theory does run small. But for those of us who are small (I wear a size 0 in Theory), it is perfect. There are lots of options for regular size women, but not many for women my size. I can’t wear JCrew, Banana Republic, etc. suits because they are always too big. So stop hating on Theory and just keep in mind that the brand runs small.
dm58
I am extremely ample of bosom (!) and actually loved the sweater that you also bought. I purchased it, too. I thought the way the neckline was actually made me look hourglass but not TOO busty.
Anonymous Today
I’m worried that the style of the jacket wouldn’t hang properly on me. I’m fairly large-chested and sometimes jackets of this style tend to hang straight down from the bust, making me look bigger than I am.
Elle Woods
This. Love the skirt though.
KelliJ
I like the idea of this jacket but I’m not sure it would work on me. It looks boxy and short. I just think it might look like a tent over my DDs. I’d like to see what it looks like buttoned up.
ERP
I LOVE this suit.
KelliJ
I would like to recommend a video featuring Lynn Elsenhans, CEO of Sunoco. She spoke at an ABA event about women, the shortage of women in leadership roles, and the challenges women face in corporate America (and in law firms in general). She also talks about some actions women can take to help their push their careers forward.
The video is about 40 minutes long, but well worth watching. Although she spoke to lawyers, her remarks are geered to any woman working in a company, firm, partnership, etc. It’s a great perspective offered by a woman who has made it to the top in a very male dominated industry.
http://www.leadingwomen.biz/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=303
memercier
That certainly was a great link. Thank you.
Ill keep it in my favs, Ill forward it to a lot of young women.
A.M.
So cute, only wish the jacket had buttons rather than hook-and-eye, Feel like it would be too boxy like people above.
Quick side-track: I have a pair of soft leather flats that I adore, and the heel-backs have started folding and slumping due to serious wear to the point that they doesn’t stay on the back of my foot sometimes and slaps around like a flip-flop. Any suggestions for how to stiffen it again?
The only thing I can think of is to have a cobbler (maybe a tailor? I don’t know) put something like boning in it, but then I’d be worried it would rub my heels raw.
AIMS
Go to a cobbler. They will know if anything can be done.
surrounded by lawyers
Inserts you can buy in stores could also help with the slippage, and to stiffen the heel’s back a little bit without causing you any pain. If that fails, they are removable, and then you could try a professional.
CS
Ugh, that photoshopped Ann Taylor photo is scary! Totally out of proportion. Why do they think this looks good? Why isn’t the already-slender model good enough without re-touching?
Dilemma
Ladies, I need your help.
I am working for a small firm in city X and received an offer from a big firm in city Y. The small firm salary is approximately 60% of the big firm salary. Both positions are for doing the same type of work, which I enjoy. The solution should be easy, except that both my husband and I work apart. Staying in city X, he is a 3 hour drive away and relatively easily accessible. If I move to city Y, he will be a plane-ride away, and travel time will increase to 5 hours and expenses would increase as well. Also, at a big firm, I am worried I won’t have as much time to see him (we see each other every weekend right now). So, we are concerned this extra distance will strain our relationship (which is excellent and strong in my opinion) and won’t be worth the extra salary in the long run.
There is a possibility I can transfer back in the future, but I am not going to base my decision on that. We are both young and do not have children, though we plan to in the next 4 years. Any advise will be much appreciated!
Anon
Knowing absolutely nothing about you, your work situation, and your marriage, beyond what you’ve told me, I’d pass. If the work is comparable, you’ll probably end up spending most of your increased income from job Y on travel expenses and I think both the cost and time of the travel will come to be a strain. Living 3 hours apart from your husband is hard enough – and if what you have is excellent and strong right now, I wouldn’t push it!
KelliJ
Other than the money and more hours, it doesn’t seem like you gain all that much more, and you probably will lose time with your hubby. Something that I personally wouldn’t do. m(I have to admit though that I would not be able to live apart from my hubby at all. We’re kind of inseparable that way.) If you’re going to be working M-F when would you have time for the 5 hours of travel? Is it 5 hours total or one way?
Dilemma
The 5 hours of travel is for one way: 3 hour flight + waiting at the airport + driving to/fro. Hubby would be visiting me more than I would visit him (government job with flexible hours). The big firm is amenable to letting me work from home one long weekend a month so the weekend I go to see hubby I would be there for 4 days.
I know money isn’t everything, but it is a huge increase in pay… almost double what I make now. It is difficult to pass up.
Also I should note that I am a relatively new attorney and the big firm’s name would look nice on my resume.
Anon
What are the job prospects like for your husband in city Y?
Shayna
Is there a chance that your husband could relocate to be closer to your potential new job?
Dilemma
Unfortunately, none – because he is bound to a 4 year contract at his current job.
Anon
Military?
Chicago S
If it is a significant pay increase, run the numbers on what you would really take home. The increase will be taxed at your highest tax rate since it will be on top of your combined income you may end up paying at least 1/3 of it in taxes.
Suze
I did something like this (commute – by a 1 hour flight every other weekend – to SO/now husband – I finally moved to now husband’s city) for a few years. Think long and hard about this. Your job is for some limited/finite no. of years, and your marriage is hopefully forever. The people at work may (or may not) be nice to you most or all of the time and they may ‘love’ your work, but they will never, ever *love* you. Your husband does.
Long distance relationships are haaard. Very hard. Not to mention the expense of dual housing, the commute (flying every other weekend is just.no.fun, I promise and it is not cheap) and just the separation itself (see KelliJ’s comment). You already know some of this since you are currently living a a 3 hr drive apart (if I read correctly), but once it becomes a plane trip, it is vastly more complicated. The fact that it is a three hour plane ride is – to me – important. That’s a long ride, and not to be unduly negative, but I am thinking that 5 hours is wildly optimistic because it assumes a 100% on time flight departure/arrival, which…well, you know.
Money can buy lots of conveniences and comforts, but it is not everything. And Biglaw is high paying, impressive experience, but it’s kind of greedy about your time and not that *nice* about your life. Plus Biglaw makes arbitrary decisions at unpredictable times for reasons outside of your control (read: it is not a terribly stable place, esp. in today’s economy). I don’t know you or your personal circumstances, but if my choice were between the resume glitziest/$$ richest Biglaw job and my husband being with me in our house every night, I would take my husband a million times over – even if it meant working as a Wal Mart greeter.
My $.02. Good luck.
KelliJ
5 hours each way? Ouch. That would be nearly impossible to do every weekend. Having traveled all over this country in my previous life, that would get old really fast especially when you start travelling during the winter (assuming it snows where you are).
I actually gave up my job when my company moved HQs to a different city because I didn’t want to be a 2.5 hour flight away from my hubby. The money would not be worth it to me, and big firm isn’t the only way to build a great resume. But that is just me.
Emily
My experience in a large regional firm is that even though the *firm* may be amenable to you taking a long weekend each month, there is a good chance that the *partners* you work for will not be. I work for a “family friendly” firm but have missed 4 out of the 5 weekend trips I’ve tried to schedule, not to mention numerous family events, largely because of the demands of the partners I work for. Talk to some of the associates who work for the same people you’ll be working for; ask them if they’ve taken any long weekends in the last year, and how many plans they’ve been asked to cancel last-minute. That’s a much better indicator than the firm’s commitment, or even a partner’s easy-going reassurance that it won’t be a problem.
anon - chi
This. What the “firm” tells you during hiring is often waaaay different than what the individuals AT the firm tell you once you are there. (Case in point: a good friend was hired at a biglaw firm with the promise he would be able to work in a wide variety of litigation areas. Once he was there, he was put on a products liability defense team and did *nothing* else, despite his efforts to branch out and frank talks with partners.)
Amy
It’s a lot easier to get a different job than it is get a different husband. Especially once you’re in an unfamiliar city, working lots of hours – forget it. If your marriage breaks up over this job, will you still feel like the extra money was worth it? That’s what I’d be asking myself.
Kaye
I don’t think that 3 hrs vs. 5 hrs is a big difference. I’m in the “5 hrs to see each other” relationship right now – it sucks, but if it was 3 hrs one way it woudn’t suck much less.
In terms of travel expenses: always optimize for high income, not for low expenses. If your field is anything like mine, higher salary = more respect from future employers. Even if most of the increase is consumed by the travel, I’d still go for it.
I think what you should base your decision on is future plans: How does this relocation affect the expected amount of time you have to spend apart before you can move to the same city?
anon
has been rehashed but 3 hrs car vs. 5 hrs plane = Seriously different.
nonA
What are the hard hours requirements at the “small” and “big” firms? Is there a huge difference? When you are working until incredibly late at night for the third week in a row, that big pay raise suddenly seems not worth it. Given your already long-distance relationship, I would think the time factor might be huge.
Regarding the resume issue – the prestige of big law on your resume doesn’t always mean that you will be doing better work at the big firm – for me, and ymmv, getting more in depth experience at a smaller firm has been ten times more valuable than what I got being one of many peons on a huge “glamourous” matter at my previous big law firm.
Dilemma
Bigfirm expects about 2100 (even though technically, their min is less). Right now, I work from 9-7 already with a few late nights thrown in. I don’t imagine the big firm will be significantly more.
The quality of work is what I question. At the small firm, I am doing alot of brief-writing and what I think is substantive work. At the big firm, it kindof is an unknown.
I guess my question is: Since hubby and I are apart already, will it make too much difference for it to be a flight vs. a drive?
anon biglaw
What the firm “expects” may be very different than what actually happens. And so I present to you a real-life almost worst-case scenario. I say almost because it can always get worse.
My biglaw minimum is 2000, 2100 is “expected”… and I’ve billed 1575 hours Jan 1 – July 31. I work every night until late and at least one full weekend day, usually 1 and 3/4 days. I wonder what your basis is for not imagining that the big firm will be significantly more.
They say to you NOW that you can telecommute one day a week. “They” are HR/hiring committee, not necessarily the partners you will be working for. Good luck trying to tell Senior Partner that you are working from home the long weekend before an emergency filing, and that it’s ok because HR told you so when you signed on. We have flextime/telecommuting here too. Officially. Does anyone actually use it? Only new parents, and only for a while.
And the quality of work … I haven’t written anything substantive in a year. I live in documents and depositions, but am too low on the totem pole to actually take any depositions. I hope to get more substantive work next year, my third year, but we’ll see. Meanwhile my friends at smaller firms and in gov have done much, much more substantive work than I.
Yeah, my biglaw salary is nice on paper, but when you do the math, I’m making less than $65 an hour. And paying almost 40% in taxes. And I only see my hubby because we live together. I get home at 8pm, he feeds me dinner, we eat together, and then I get back to work until 12 or 1. I am exhausted and stressed out. I never get to go to the gym/see friends/relax/run errands. Because he has more time, my hubby does all the errands and makes dinner every night. You won’t have that. Admittedly TMI but in the interest of full warning, I am so stressed/tired that I have zero sex drive these days. Zero. Guess how good that is for my relationship.
I’ve also done a LOT of business travel in the past year. Flying sucks, even if the flight is only an hour or two. You are forgetting about things like the baby sitting behind you who screams the whole time, the flight delays because even though YOUR leg of the flight is short, your plane is coming from Somewhere Else and was delayed, living out of a carryon, wasted time sitting at the airport/on the tarmac/in the security line.
The biglaw name on my resume… will allow me to lateral to a good mid or small firm when I have gained enough skills here to leave. You’re already in the small firm.
Obviously, ymmv, but I hope you decide against this, frankly. You only have one husband, and straining/destroying your marriage is not worth this job.
been there
Your story makes me so sad, only because I’ve been there. *hugs* to you anon biglaw and hang in there. (And if I may, you might consider making sex dates. Seriously, put it on the calendar. It never takes as long or as much energy as you think, and just b/c it’s not spontaneous doesn’t mean you won’t get all the benefits – endorphins, bonding, intimacy, etc. Just my two cents.)
anon -- former big law
Hey anon big law– hang in there. I was in a near identical situation at a big east coast firm a couple of years ago. I was a second year, working insane hours on a boring case, doing boring work for terrible partners. At one point it was so terrible that I had to buy a giant pair of dark sunglasses because I was crying on the subway on the way into work every day. Anyway, fast forward two years. I left for a clerkship, learned a ton, wrote a bunch, and now have a fab though lower paying government job.
You will get through this, and there are other ways to be a lawyer.
KelliJ
Yes! Flight is much more difficult than a drive! You can do 3 hours by car after work on a Friday night easily. I used to drive that when I went home from law school. Heck I would drive back to school early on a Monday morning after a weekend home. You can’t do that when an airplane is involved. Airports, flights and all things related are 100% unpredictable. I have been stuck at one airport in particular routinely for 8+ hours for a 2.5 hour flight.
lawDJ
Yes absolutely yes. Flights only go on at certain times, you can decide to drive whenever you want if you must.see.your.hubby.right.now. Flights are pricier and can be canceled/rescheduled/moved whatever for any reason. I assume you see your husband pretty much every weekend now, I would say that would be halved if you’re flying, consider if you can handle another 4 years of that.
How about trying to parlay this offer into one in the city your hubby lives in? Or at least closer to it?
AN
Assuming all work related things to be equal (except pay), then would your flight time + to/fro airports = 3 hrs ? If yes, I’d say go for it. Since you don’t plan on kids in the next 2-4 yrs, you have a bit more mileage right now to do these things. At worst, you can see how it goes for a year and then switch if it’s not manageable.
I spent a year apart from husband (worked in 2 diff countries) and whilst I could afford to visit once a mth, we managed to work it out as we had (and have) a solid relationship 7 he’s v supportive. Sounds to me like you share that with your husband too.
I also get the feeling (just from your posts) that you really want to take this job. Will you spend months/yrs regretting that you did not do it, when you’re child free and you could have done so? If so, do it.
LegallyBlonde
“Regarding the resume issue – the prestige of big law on your resume doesn’t always mean that you will be doing better work at the big firm – for me, and ymmv, getting more in depth experience at a smaller firm has been ten times more valuable than what I got being one of many peons on a huge “glamourous” matter at my previous big law firm.”
This. My hubs and I lived in different cities for over two years and just recently we both moved to a third city to be together. To move, I went from a 400+ firm in the big city to an under 20 person firm in a medium city. I am getting SO much more experience now that I was before. And I am SO much happier.
I made a lot more money before, but I was also so busy, and so stressed, that getting to see the hubby even on the weekends was tough because I was always working or, when I wasnt working, too stressed to be much fun.
RR
I started at a small firm, and we were acquired by a BIG firm. The experience I have had vs. the experience of other senior associates who have been in BigLaw the entire time is almost not comparable. My experience and the substantive work I have done is more on par with young partners than other associates. It’s just a different world in BigLaw. I like it, but I’m also glad I came in on the level I did, with the experience I did. I would have been lost in the machine if I’d started as a first year.
Anonymous
Would you make enough for your husband to move to City Y with you? Would he even want to? It seems like, if you’re planning to have children in the next few years, your end goal should be to be in the same place. I’m not sure how taking the job in City Y really advances your life plans in any beneficial way except for having more money. Unless you’re really hard up for money now, I don’t think it’s worth it.
Dilemma
He won’t be able to move for another 3.5 years because he’s on a 4 year contract at his current job. I do agree we need to end up together when we decide to start a family, in 3 to 4 years. At that point, I think a bigfirm name will make me more marketable wheveever we decide to relocate – possibly in city Z (somewhere else).
Anon
Is there a reason you can’t look for jobs in the city where your husband lives and will be living for the next 3.5 years?
lawDJ
This.
Dilemma
Yes. It is tiny and has pretty much zero legal work, especially in my field. Where I am now is the closest I can get to him and still do the work I do.
I suppose what I have now is the best case scenario… and reading all these comments I am inclined to believe I should stick with it. Thank you so much, wise ladies of corporette!
Anonymous
As someone with more than 4 years practice experience, I don’t think it’s true that a big firm will make you more marketable. It’ll make you more marketable to other big firms, but there’s more to law practice than just that. After 4 years you might want out of private practice completely.
I understand that it’s not always possible for married couples to live together, but it seems that taking the job in City Y would place unnecessary and very serious strain on your relationship. Unless you already have serious strain on your relationship due to the lower pay at your current job, I don’t think it’s a good idea to move to City Y.
Anonymous
I will second this!
associate
Dave Ramsey would tell you to stay closer to hubby even if it means less money.
Anonymous
Aww someone else listens to Dave Ramsey! I admit my finances are in much better shape since I started – I don’t follow his plan to the T, but it does make me think more before I plunk down money for something.
Nony
Don’t do it!
1. If you are not one of those who wants a long-term BigLaw career (partnership or bust), the churn-and-burn is not*worth*it. The “official” billable hours requirement really means nothing and is so optimistically low it’s ridiculous. And if you have a slow year and approach the billable hours minimum, or, *gasp*, drop slightly below it, you’ll get a negative performance review. I worked BigLaw for 4 years before leaving for a small firm because I was sick of the crazy hours and no life, and was so pleasantly surprised to find the quality of work went up so much. I found myself a valued member of a team doing meaningful work rather than an expendable cog in a wheel in a conference room with 500 bankers boxes of documents for months on end! I love the people I work with, they are real people with real lives, and they take vacations and expect me to also. From the beginning, partners asked for my opinions re: strategy, and they listened! And they frequently followed my advice! Unheard of in BigLaw for the first 7 years. You are unlikely to be writing substantive briefs for the first several years in BigLaw. Think documents, privilege review, deposition transcripts. Snooze.
2. In my opinion, seeing your husband less than every weekend and having to fly to get there, so you can take a less satisfying and more draining job is not going to be worth it. But I would never take a job that required me to live in a separate city from my husband, so YMMV, obviously.
3. The money is not going to be worth it. I took a hefty paycut when I switched to a small firm, but really did not feel it much because I moved to a less expensive market. Is the BigLaw job in a city with higher cost of living? Between that and the flying and taxes, you won’t have much extra for all that extra work and separation. Not worth it! In a few years you’ll be making big strides paying off your student loans (if you have any) even on the small firm salary, and at some point you’ll be pleasantly surprised that you make plenty of money and you still have a life.
Just my $.02. Good luck.
Curious about Contracts
Corporettes, your advice for Dilemma was so helpful, I wonder what you think about my situation. I currently have a *good* job in the Midwest. (*good* because it pays well and has a reasonably collegial atmosphere; not *great* because the the practice I’m passionate about is now essentially defunct) My soon-to-be-fiance lives on the East Coast, and the goal is for both of us to end up there within the next 6 months.
I recently received an offer for a contract attorney job in his city related to an issue I am passionate about. My big concerns are (1) cutting my paycheck in half (which might be offset by consolidating our households and eliminating several $100/month in airfare); and (2) the big unknown of contract attorney work. Have any of you ladies worked as contract attorneys? How does contract work look on a resume? Does it translate into relevant experience for later pursuing a full-time associate position? I’m concerned about the impact this move might have on career trajectory, but I’m also excited to work on an issue I’m passionate about and be with my family. Any advice would be much appreciated!
Nony
I don’t have personal experience with contract work, but a senior associate/soon-to-be partner at my firm started as a contract attorney on a temporary and part-time basis 9 years ago right out of law school. They liked her work, and when it became clear there would be enough work to keep her full time, they offered her a job.
We had another part-time contract attorney who probably would have eventually been offered a full-time position, but she found and took a full-time associate position before my firm had the work for her to be full-time (so the contract job did not appear to harm her prospects). Also, the identity/status of the employer and the type of work may affect how good it looks on a resume – probably varies a great deal.
Is there any indication whether this could turn into a long-term position? Could be a good opportunity if this is the practice area you want to be in. Or you could use the time at the contract position to look for something in your fiance’s city, though the economy may seriously hamper your efforts. If it were me, I would probably go for it – I’m an optimist and I wouldn’t be able to stand the long-distance relationship, but you may be more risk-averse (as I usually am in most circumstances).
Nony
Also, I should add that my firm is a small boutique, and its practices may have no relevance if you are hoping to get back to big law.
anon
I think it depends. I’m only familiar with the type of contract attorneys who work on big doc review type projects. If it is that type of contract work, I think its a bad idea (I have heard others refer to this type of contract work as “career cancer” — which seems like hyperbole, though it is a frequently voiced sentiment in my office.) It seems like there might be other models of contract work that are more substantive? If so, that might be better. So, proceed with caution, I suppose.
Doc Reviewer
Yep, career cancer. I’m a career temp now, whether nor not I like it. There are contract jobs with substantive work these days though, so it really depends on the job offered.
anon for this one
It depends on the assignment. If it’s work that you want to be doing, and would like to do in the future, then I’d say take it. If it’s the kind of drudge work described by other posters as “career cancer”, then think twice. Just think about how the experience gained will impact your future career. Is it just work for a paycheck or work that speaks to you?
I lost my job and took a contract position. The work was substantive, and it was definitely the type of work that I wanted to be doing. Within 6 months, I was hired on full-time. Taking that contract position was the best career move I ever made.
anon - chi
This just seems like a roll of the dice – it may be a great way to get your foot in the door for a fulltime position, but (from what I’ve heard) it seems more likely that becoming a contract attorney will act as a black mark on your resume. When there are a ton of very talented attorneys on the market coming out of full-time gigs, most firms just aren’t going to bother looking at contract attorneys, IMHO.
Anon for This
So just a different perspective.
My spouses job, up until this year, required him to be out of the country for 8-9 months a year. It is doable, to be in separate locations, it just requires a lot of trust and an understanding that their is an objective to the separation. I left bigLaw after the second child, because 2 kids and the distance proved to be too much, but had I not had kids, I’d have stayed at BigLaw. Were I in your shoes, I’d take the job with the remainder of your husband’s contract in mind, put some serious thought into what you want to get out of your experience at Big Law and a strategy to get it, and 6 months prior to the end of your contract date, both can start looking in the other’s city – whoever find’s a new job first, stays put.
It’s not easy, but we’ve done it for 10 years +. Now his job requires him to travel extensively, but in the US. I figure if there is no customs involved, its a piece of cake…
Kit
I think your answer is found in your question. You are concerned that the extra distance will strain your relationship and extra salary isn’t worth this risk. If you have an excellent and strong relationship, you are very fortunate. No amount of money is worth losing this.
sheila
that hair on the model looks soooo strange!
C2
What, Heidi’s not allowed to wear a suit? ;)
AIMS
Ha. I love the hair but not with the suit.
Anonymous Today
I’m the same way, I love the hair, but it’s definitely better suited for a more casual outfit.
Suze
Hahahaha!! Made me LOL. Thanks :).
Samantha
Is this a new hair trend, because I’ve seen some just-out-of-college new staff at my workplace wear this sort of hair. Braid with loose tendrils/messy look up top.
AIMS
Long messy braid or even 2, esp. fishtail, is definitely the big trend. As a secret semi-hippie, I adore it. But would never even *walk by* my job with this sort of hair.
Forestgirl
Just wanted to post more Banana Republic coupons for 40% off in case anyone else wants to use them. They are good today only, and I think one use only, so please post if you use one.
MNVDG6Q2X2K8
LZT3JWWRGQP6
Forestgirl
Just wanted to post BR coupons–40% off one regular priced item, online and today only. Please post if you use them so others don’t bother.
MNVDG6Q2X2K8
LZT3JWWRGQP6
Forestgirl
Sorry, something weird is going on with the comments and I accidentally posted this twice (thought the first one didn’t go through).
Michelle
Hey thanks I used the second one of your codes. Saved $27 on a pencil skirt!
Forestgirl
Glad to help!
Suze
I like this suit! I think the sleeves and length of the jacket would work well on me (tall/long waisted/sm to med chest). If I was more bust blessed, short waisted, long legged and/or overall shorter, though, I think maybe not. It’s all academic however, since the shopping moratorium is really for real right now. SIGH.
Oh, and yeah, the photoshopping is too, too creepy!
AIMS
I dont like the suit. I dont hate the suit. It’s sort of blah. The skirt is nice enough. The jacket may be okay but strikes me as it could be really unflattering/boxy on many. It also seems kind of informal & sloppy for a suit. Maybe the lack of buttons?
Plus, the last time I went to AT, most things fit/were cut rather awkwardly so I may be biased. I do love the shoes they have pictured! Great shape & color.
Liz
Love the shorter sleeves on this suit. So much better for hot summer weather.
Lawgirl
I’m not a big department store fan. Dunno; don’t like wading through tons of sections, walking past ties and duvets and pots and pans on my way to suits and dresses. I like boutiques that have things nicely merchandised and items that are culled of “random/fugly” things as much as possible. I don’t do a ton of Ann Taylor (but adore their shoes), no BR at all, and few J.Crew items (mostly coats). Many of my fave places are “declasse” here (White House/Black Market, Cache, Georgiou’s, NY & Co, Loehmann’s, TJMaxx, Annie Sez, Boston Proper), sample sales (ideeli, ruelala), independent Asian boutiques (beautiful silks), along with the oscasional Saks and Neiman’s (and their outlets), but I manage to look professional yet stylish, and garner compliments from other fashionistas in the office. Oh well…
75
These suit jackets with a sleeve that hits somewhere just below the elbow tend to be very awkward looking. Also, what season do you wearit? – will you be wearing it under a coat? – when you pull the coat on, the sleeve will ride up under the coat. For some of us the lower arm hanging out is not the prettiest part of the body.