ByKat Hours Updated
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Suit of the Week: Acne Studios

Acne Womens SuitFor busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. We haven't talked about ankle pants at work for a long while, so I'm curious: does this suit read as “conservative” to everyone else as it does to me? I think, for me, ankle pants have finally crossed the line and become appropriate for all but the most formal of work occasions (interview, presentation). I think the tailoring looks impeccable, and the wool/mohair blend sounds cozy and warm. The blazer (Acne Studios Wool Suit-Jacket) is $670, and the pants (Acne Studios Wool Suiting Pants) are $360, both at Saks. Psst: J.Crew and Limited both have a similar look for less, and Lafayette 148 New York has a similar look (jacket + pants) for plus sizes.       Acne Studios womens suit

Sales of note for 12.10

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

191 Comments

  1. Do you consider any tapered pant to be “ankle” or do they have to rise above the ankle by a certain amount? Splitting hairs, but tapered pants are always shorter than those designed to drape over the foot.

    1. That’s one angry model.

      I think you make a good distinction– The pants shown are definitely ankle pants, and I don’t agree with Kat that they’re quite as formal as normal pants. However, I think the story would be different with pants that were tapered but longer– more like right past the ankle. I love that style, especially since they don’t need to be hemmed for flats vs. heels.

      1. Agree–ankle pants are not yet in the “just as formal” or “nearly as formal” camp for me yet. But I do have a JCREW suit from ~10 years ago with cigarette pants that go all the way down, and it was super-formal–It’s not the cut of the pants, but the length that’s an issue for me. Ankle/Croped = casual in my mind, regardless of the fabric or the cut of the accompanying jacket.

        1. I agree with this. I actually bought the J.Crew Paley pant in a Tall size, which is “top of foot” for me, so that I could wear them with the coordinating blazer as a suit. Sleek and formal. But it definitely wouldn’t be formal if I’d gotten the regular, cropped-on-me length.

          1. What shoes do you wear with this? Booties are a no-go at my workplace except on casual/evening occasions.

      2. I am 5-4 and these pants would probably be pants on me (not any sort of cropped length). I’ve decided that pants like these may be the only way I’ll get to wear flats at work.

        I had high hopes for the similar pants that J Crew sells (but they were too itchy for me). I may look at the Lafayette ones (but they seem unlined, too).

        1. Lafayettes are unlined but I buy them anyway. Worlds better than my old Gap pants.

      4. +1 AGREE! Tapered is fine – boot cut is fine. Ankle is fine… for casual Friday. But honestly, I’ve never seen ankle pants on a woman (or model) that look attractive. I have great legs – and cankles. Just being honest. Who has attractive ankles? To me ankle pants are about as attractive as skirts that hit just above the knee dimples. Ick.

        1. Hey, I have awesome ankles. They are one of my favorite features.

          I am not joking. I used to dance ballet and think my ankles are darn nice, and not at all cankle-y.

  2. This is a gorgeous suit, and I would totally wear it to work. I would even wear it to work as styled in the photo.

    But no way does an ankle-pants-with-booties suit look “conservative” to me. From the ankles up, yes. From the ankles down, absolutely not. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that…)

    1. +1 I’d probably switch to pointy-toed heels in the office, but I’d totally do booties for commuting / post-work event.

  3. I don’t think ankle pants read formal to anyone routinely spending time in a formal office setting.

    1. I agree. I can NOT wear suit’s with slack’s or any kind of pant’s at all in the office during the week, b/c the manageing partner insists that all women wear dresses, if not suit’s — I know he like’s to see my leg’s and he also is NOT happy unless I wear 4″ heel’s. FOOEY b/c they realy are not comfortable for me to walk around the office all day. So I wear flat’s whenever he is NOT in the office and Nike Air’s to work unless it is raining when I wear boot’s. And on weekend’s, when I work, I come in with Jean’s! Yay! That’s how I was abel to bill 22 hours, which I could NEVER do wearing high heel’s!

      The manageing partner asked about my fitbit b/c I think Margie must be getting a bigger tuchus these day’s and she has not lost the baby weight she put on. I told him he could talk to my dad b/c my dad monitor’s my fitbit usage every day from his own computer on LI, and he want’s to do the same to make sure Margie does some REAL exercise to reduce her tuchus and baby weight. I think he now think’s Margie should be a size 0, even tho she is a more then littel bigger then I am, and at best would probabley only get down to mabye a size 4, tops. I hope Margie does NOT get mad that I told the manageing partner about my dad’s remote monitoring of my fitbit use, b/c I think she like’s to go shoppeing and eat lunch out with her freind’s rather then do the 10,000 steps my dad forces me to do every day.

      Noah texted me with a picture of him holding some kind of mask. I wonder if it is an Ebola mask. He does work in the ER, so who knows what he is up to and there are surley alot of cases that come into the ER for treatement from crappey places uptown that they must treat. I am not sure I can be a doctor’s wife, b/c of the hours and b/c I do NOT want my husband bringeing home diseases to me and our children. FOOEY!

      David may be a better bet, b/c he does NOT work in medicine, but he is to much of a groper for me. You would think he was a doctor for all of the palepitation he started doieng with me. But that was NOT for me and I was NOT interested in returning that favor for him especialy while trying to watch movie, of all places. DOUBEL FOOEY! I just want a normal guy with a bank account who want’s a normal relationship, and keep’s his sexeueal desires to himself execept when we are in private. I am a very private person and do NOT like it when men do not respect my body or my privacey in public. FOOEY! Does the hive also have this kind of probelem with men? If so how can I get a NORMAL guy? HELP!

    2. They don’t seem formal with the boots shown, but I would totally wear this suit to my formal attire Biglaw office. I love this. So much so that it will be shipped to me soon!

  4. So…there’s this: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/10/judge-refuses-to-postpone-hearing-because-maternity-leave-isnt-a-good-enough-excuse/

    and, also, quick question–my FB feed is lighting up by people who find the new AAPL and FB policies regarding egg freezing as offensive. The rhetoric is essentially, “these companies just expect you to bank your eggs and keep working.” I totally disagree, and think that it is a fantastic, generous perk (even if it won’t cover the cost of more than ~1 cycle in the Bay Area. What are your thoughts?

    1. I definitely don’t find it offensive, but I do find it a little bit, I don’t know, troubling (as a social trend, if it is one)? I think that I would be very apprehensive to get pregnant if I worked somewhere where they were offering to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for me to put it off. I don’t like the idea of a company embracing the idea that pregnancy is not really compatible with “right now” for their employees.

      But I’m pretty skeptical about the entire egg freezing thing in general – the success rates don’t look very good at all, and I don’t really think that having children late that late in life is a good idea for a lot of other reasons (the added stress on the body of a late pregnancy, being near retirement when they graduate, not being around for grandchildren, etc. – other than the pregnancy, I would say the same goes for men). (This is totally me speculating, and, of course, it’s a very personal decision; I’m just saying that it’s not one that I would make.)

      1. I would love this benefit. Because I’m 31, single, and would like to have the option to freeze my eggs and have a bio baby at 38. I didn’t choose to embrace my career to the exclusion of baby making or elect to be one of those horrid old hags putting their baby at risk. I haven’t found a father for my future baby yet.

        It’s nice that you are 100% certain this isn’t a decision you would make. But honestly you have no f-ing clue because you haven’t been there. I’m 100% sure ill breast feed and my kid will love kale. Because I’m not actually living that life.

          1. I wonder if it would be more constructive to say what one WOULD do, rather than not do. For example, if not interested in freezing eggs, would a woman (1) get pregnant, while young, by a man she didn’t have a commitment to/from? (How would parental rights and responsibilities be handled?) or (2) not have kids ever? (Many people are really not open to this outcome, barring infertility out of their control.)

            Weighing the actual options facing someone else lets us relate to them in a more practical way.

        2. So, to speak up for Lyssa: I read her comment and agreed with it. My first reaction to the policy was that they were discouraging people who would otherwise be having babies earlier in life to postpone so that they can keep working more. That’s how Lyssa obviously interpreted it too. And I agreed with her concerns about that. And I’m sure she wouldn’t make the decision to postpone childbirth for that reason, just as I wouldn’t.

          But, now that I’m reading these replies, I’m thinking of it outside of that context. I would freeze my eggs if I hadn’t found my mate yet. Lyssa probably would too. We just weren’t thinking of it like that.

          So, this has been enlightening. But I don’t think we need personal attacks when we are all just coming at the question from our own background. That’s the beauty of this. We can learn from each other and think about things in a different way. I appreciate this discussion because I have more to think about, but just because I hadn’t thought of it in that way doesn’t mean I thought of you as a horrid old hag or had no clue or whatever. It’s just that I’m coming from my own place, just like you are.

          1. Thank you, anon. You are correct; since this is a work-related benefit, I was looking at it as addressing a work-related problem (childbearing not being compatible with working). The idea of an employer being in any way involved in one’s romantic life seems pretty absurd to me, so I did not even really think of it from that perspective. I suppose that I should have.

            Personally, I would not freeze my eggs if I had not found an appropriate partner at a later age – the procedure is too intensive, the chances of success are too low, the risks are still not well known, and, as I stated, I do not think that I would want to have kids particularly late in life (I don’t have a hard and fast cut off, but I’m thinking 45-ish). There are always going to be things that I want but can’t have, and I guess that that would have been one of them, if it had been. I’m glad that it’s not, but of course there are other things in my life that I can’t have but wish that I could.

          2. @Lyssa (since I can’t directly reply):

            I don’t disagree with a lot of what you’re saying, so this is in no way a pile-on reply. I just want to respond specifically to this:

            ” a work-related problem (childbearing not being compatible with working).”

            In my experience, the work-related problem is not that childbearing is incompatible–it’s that for those people who are not fortunate to meet a partner in school or through mutual friends, husband-finding is often incompatible due to limited free time to meet new people and schedule dates. So, if you extend your concern about the message this is sending (that it’s okay to demand employee commitment to a level that permits no outside life), I agree with that. I’m just saying that it’s not altogether absurd for an employer to be involved in an employee’s romantic life when taking into account how work demands can limit the romantic life.

          3. @ Anon 5:12 and Tibby

            Exactly.

            As someone who has lived in both a smaller Midwestern city and in coastal large cities, there are ENORMOUS cultural and economic differences in the mating market. Women who live in areas that are “a great place to raise a family” have it SO. MUCH. EASIER. to find a man to marry who wants kids without:
            (1) dealing with the lopsided gender ratio that favors men,
            (2) having to be a thin and better than average looking just to compete,
            (3) competition from women from all over the world who move to large American cities, and
            (4) dealing with your male peers whose plan is to play around until 40 and then marry a 25-year old. On top of that, many middle class Americans want to buy a home before having children, and that is much easier for people who live in affordable areas, so they feel comfortable having children at younger ages.

            This is admittedly a sensitive spot for me, as I learned that in general, men have more reasonable, realistic expectations of a wife compared to men in large coastal cities.

          4. Lyssa, the point of a lot of work benefits is that they’re in addition to compensation not “work related” – e.g. Vacation, health care, retirement matching etc.

        3. Yup. I have lots of female friends who are in their early 30’s and really, really want children but haven’t had them yet, and I’m in the same boat. Not a single one – not one – of us is in that position because we are married and choosing to put it off for our careers. It’s because we haven’t found a partner yet. I’m so happy for you that it worked out and you met someone earlier in life. It doesn’t happen for everyone else that way. I would have LOVED to have kids earlier. I get so sad when I think about everything I’m going to miss (my parents may never meet my children… I may never meet my grandchildren…) and how much harder it will be once I start trying. I get it. Thanks. If you want to lecture someone about the evils of having children late in life, talk to all of the men in their 30’s who want to have kids “someday” but balk at the idea of settling down for another decade (or two).

          Given the high expense (even with this coverage, that’s only one round, if that, so you have to pay for the rest) and extremely low odds of a successful pregnancy from frozen eggs, I doubt most people are considering this option to voluntarily put off having children. More likely, it’s people like me who don’t have the option of having them now and figure the low odds are better than nothing.

          1. That being said, I should add that I do completely agree with your first paragraph. To the extent that this is a move towards companies encouraging people to put off having kids, that’s troubling. Just could have done without the judgment in the rest of your post.

        4. I think Monday’s suggestion may be the right one. I’m of two minds about these announcements — on the one hand, it seems like it would be better/easier to encourage more flexible schedules, for everyone, so that people (women) can feel a little more free to pursue personal priorities (whether that’s raising children, seeking a partner with whom one can raise children, or not, or something totally different) without feeling like they have to sacrifice their careers. On the other hand, though, egg freezing, from what I’ve read about it, still seems like an expensive gamble for single women who haven’t found their partners yet (like me!), and it would certainly be nice to be offered financial assistance with it.

        5. Totally agree with #smugmarried here (and glad to know I’m not alone in the 30-something-and-still-looking box!).

          I also wonder why we cannot look at this as one in what will hopefully be a promising series of steps taken to help professional women live their lives on their own terms, on their own timetables? Just because an employer is providing the benefit doesn’t mean that it’s evil. I don’t for one moment believe that my dental insurance is provided only because it will help me work more hours (my health insurance, certainly, but dental? I doubt it). If we’re suspect of every little benefit that seems like it could genuinely help us, how will we ever really progress?

          1. Agreed. It’s just like the pill in my view – lets women control their own fertility and child bearing choices. Hopefully the longer it’s around the better it gets. And seriously talk to men who have kids in their 50s before starting in on “late in life” nonsense. Different strokes.

      2. Isn’t that so nice for you. Your “reasoning” is completely absurd, by the way. What is the science behind the added stress on the body of a late pregnancy? Also, there’s *zero* guarantee your smug ass will be around for grandchildren (or graduation, for that matter). You could be hit by a truck tomorrow.

        1. Wow, these seem like harsh reactions. Why are you even assuming she’s married (#smugmarried)? Even though she could have done a better job of stating that as her own personal decision and not a prescription for everyone, it’s not like Lyssa is compeltely off base.

          1. Because she’s been posting on here for years about her husband and baby.

            And what part was on base? The super legit worry about retiring when the graduate? The sanctimony?

          1. Although….although….keep in mind that it doesn’t necessarily have to be that way. I was pregnant at 38 and had my baby at 39. When I went to the doctor, I was anxious, partly because of all the Dr. Internet reading I had done on “geriatric pregnancy”. But my doctors didn’t think it was any big deal to have a baby at my age. Yes, I had an extra scan. But other than that they really weren’t concerned. I think that if you take care of yourself, are generally a healthy person and eat well (i.e. all the normal things any woman of childbearing age – heck, anyone of any age – should do), you are more than likely to be just fine. I know about the studies, but I don’t subscribe to the theory that having a baby after age 35 is this horrible, risky, anxiety-inducing process. There are risks to every pregnancy and maybe they are very slightly higher at an older age. But I and all my friends who have had babies past 35 have been just fine. Let’s not subscribe to this kind of hysteria.

            Of course there is an upper limit to this and I don’t know where that is. But I don’t know many people over 45 who would want to put their bodies through a pregnancy or be a mother to a toddler anyway.

            OK, flame away.

          4. I also had a baby at 38, and it was a complete non-issue for my pregnancy. (And, it compared evenly to my pregnancy at 32).

          5. My mom had me at 40 before having babies at 40 was a thing people were talking about. (I’m 26.) She had numerous miscarriages before, but her 40-year-old body managed to cook me adequately. I know this is anecdata, but. Yeah.

          6. I’m not saying it has to be that way either. Or that it is always that way. But the risk goes up (from small to slightly less small) which means that yes, there is evidence to suggest that older women may have a different pregnancy experience than a younger one. That’s all that was meant to illustrate. Shrug.

          7. It’s harder to get pregnant after 35, and yes, your risks go up. But they go up over 30 too – and they really climb after 40. First child at 33, second at 36. I had complications with both. Now I’m 43, and while I would have had a child 3-4 years ago if DH agreed (he didn’t), I could not have a baby now. I’m caring for two elderly parents (his mom, my dad), one of whom has advanced dementia. I’m the trustee for 8 educational trusts for my nieces and nephews (and my kids), I’m my dad’s POA and caregiver, and I’m still stuck as trustee for my mom’s trust even tho she died 25 years ago. Add to that a full-time job, two kids, a killer commute for me and DH, and life is a bit hellish right now.

            I didn’t think it would happen to me, but you do reach an age where having a child is just not something you want to do. I had a tubal this summer and while the recovery was rough, I’m so glad we’re really done.

        3. These reactions to Lyssa (and the ones from yesterday, too) are unfair. She was expressing her opinion based on her experiences–which is the entire point of commentary on societal issues–and didn’t seem to me like she was attacking anyone else for their experiences. Let’s lay off the sarcasm against each other, please, because diversity of opinion is one of the things that keeps smart women coming back to this blog.

        1. For you? I have no idea.

          For me, late 30s. Am I allowed to make personal decisions for myself, or might you be afraid of being judged if I do?

          1. I’m actually done having my kids. Had my last at 42, after having gone for a 3 mile run that day.
            I will likely retire when she graduates from high school.
            I also, based on my healthy lifestyle, *expect* to live much longer than my grandparents, two of whom died before they were 60. But one never knows.

            Your first post did say “I don’t think it is a good idea” so I am not sure why you are surprised people are offended.

      4. Oh, good heavens. Apparently, I’ve ticked someone off around here lately. I’m assuming that there’s a lot of overlap in the “Anonymous” or otherwise not-using-their-typical-name characters that have been trying to attack me for the past several days. Pathetic.

        “Smugmarried,” if you think that the fact that I have discussed my husband on occasions means that I’m “smug” about being married, you have issues. I’m sorry if you’re not happy with your situation, but if you’re going to assume that anyone who has a husband and doesn’t keep him a secret or something is “smug,” that’s a pretty terrible way to go through life.

        I don’t know how I could have done a better job at saying that it’s a personal decision than by saying that it’s a personal decision. Obviously, it is. As long as you don’t want me to pay for it, I couldn’t care less if you choose it; I just don’t think that it’s a great idea for the reasons that I gave, particularly because there’s a pretty small chance of actual success with it (so the hope that it’s giving may well be false). Of course there’s no guarantee that you’ll be around for grandchildren, that doesn’t mean that you don’t want to increase the chances. There’s no guarantee that smoking will make you sick, but it’s still not a good idea.

        Do we really need science behind stress on the body to prove that it’s harder to be pregnant in your 40’s than your 30’s? Is that really in any way in question?

        1. Don’t leave! I know you didn’t threaten to leave, but I really don’t want you to. I like your comments. I don’t always agree with them, but you bring a different viewpoint than most people around here have, and that is what makes these discussions interesting and beneficial.

          1. Thank you, pls!

            I always hope that I can offer something in a way that someone might not have thought of, and that others can offer me the same.

          2. Came here to say ignore the haters Lyssa. Thanks for your contributions on this board.

        2. I can’t speak for the others here. But I think a lot of people give women in their thirties the impression that they are purposefully and selfishly deciding to postpone kids because they are “too ambitious”.

          The reality is that most women in their 30s who want kids and don’t have them haven’t found a partner with whom to have said children. Dating is frustrating in your 20s, and gets 10x more frustrating in your 30s. A lot of women who married in their 20s just don’t get this.

          There is this implicit assumption that there are dozens of marriable men out there for each single career gal. There aren’t. And even though “it takes just one” as my mom says, finding that “one” is more akin to finding a needle in a haystack than going to the store and picking something off the shelf.

          I just wish that married women would be more compassionate towards unmarried women just like mothers should be more compassionate towards women facing fertility issues.

          1. Just for the record, if I gave that impression in any way, it was not my intention and that is not my opinion. I am all for people making decisions to be as ambitious or unambitious as they want to be.

          2. That’s 100% the impression I got! It’s nice not to be in a position to need to make less than ideal choices. It’s not at all even a little bit useful to hear that someone who was never in a position to need to make that choice disapproves of it. That’s what feels smug.

          3. Lyssa, I didn’t think that was your intention. That’s why I took the time to respond.

            I hope you stick around, I like your comments too.

          4. Yes, this is why I get frustrated by these conversations. There always seems to be this assumption that women have no idea that there are risks to having children later and are just like la la la, whatever, careers, shoes, cocktails, I’ll deal with it later. In reality, I don’t know any single woman who wants kids over the age 0f 27 who isn’t intimately familiar with the statistics and the risks and the reasons it might be hard and all the rest of it. Truly, we get it.

          5. I agree with you k-padi. Lyssa, I didn’t see your post as attacking choosing ambitious, but I think what many childless women (who want women) are trying to say is that the choices are not equal: choosing a career is one thing, but choosing to have a family involves another person also making that decision with you. I think k-padi said it best, that while it takes just one, it can be frustrating for many career women who have been able to accomplish so much already on their own (school, career, professional success) to want something like a family that (at least traditionally) cannot be done solo.

          8. Anon, this is kind of my point. We all know that. I promise. Unicorn’s point was that a specific study that was and is cited constantly is very flawed.

          9. Amen. Time travel is still not possible, and for many women thinking of freezing their eggs, the choice is between egg freezing or no biological children.

            After all, how many married women without children do you know? It’s not common, especially for women married for longer than a decade if the couple was fertile when tehy married.

            Your last paragraph really sums it up, k-padi. Women who have “made all the right choices” and have had those choices turn out well have no idea how lucky they are. Not everyone gets to live in that world.

          10. Actually, Anon at 5:27, I didn’t say anything about the chances. I said the data set for many studies is outdated.

            If you will consider your source for just a moment, you might realize that women who are seeking IVF are those who have already experienced conception difficulties: most women don’t get IVF before they have tried unsuccessfully to conceive. It stands to reason that such women may have more difficulty getting pregnant than others who do not need to seek IVF. Your conclusion, then, should be that “women who have trouble conceiving and seek IVF have lower rates of pregnancy after 35,” not that “the chances of successful pregnancy decrease sharply after the age of 35” for everyone.

        3. Lyssa, I agree – stay. Different viewpoints are good and I didn’t read your comment the wrong way.

      5. I agree word for word with Lyssa. This was my first response to this article.

      6. If it was just freezing eggs I’d find it a bit absurd (as in, please work so hard you don’t have time to have babies – look, we’ll even freeze your eggs for you!) but from what I heard this is part of a comprehensive package of benefits that seem pretty awesome related to infertility, adoption and other issues related to family planning. And since there are plenty of reasons a woman might want to freeze her eggs unrelated to “too busy to have kids right now” I think it’s a great benefit and I applaud the companies who have made it available.

    2. Well they do want you to keep working, but I don’t think anyone would really choose to bank their eggs and keep working instead of having a baby because of this policy. It’s more like peace of mind if you’re not in a spot where you feel ready to have a baby, which probably for most people has to do with their partner, not their job. It’s good PR and the number of women who actually do it will probably be pretty small.

    3. I think it meets a need that women experience. So, my feelings are meh.

      I think it all fits into this horrible tech culture phenomenon where the women have to shoulder most of the burden of finding a husband (and it better be the right husband or Sheryl Sandberg will be disappointed that you flubbed your #1 career decision), caring and feeding the husband, and preserving her fertility while husband hunting, then managing her maternity leave and his paternity leave, and somehow still leaning in at work through it all.

      Where are the corporate programs for men that encourage them to engage socially with more women, or do more of the housework, or even to not expect a wife to magically appear once they are promoted to Director?

      /rant

      4. Once again, a media issue is treated as an individual concern, when there are many other factors that come into play, especially the role of men in [straight] relationships. It’s the high-class equivalent of blaming poor single mothers on the awful outcomes their children face, while ignoring the role of the absent father.

        In the community I recently moved to, a house of worship has classes for middle-school boys who need to work on their social skills. It’s a great idea, and I hope it spreads.

    4. Many big tech firms also have pretty generous maternity leave policies (at least FB and Google, not sure about Apple), so I don’t read it so much as encouraging women to put off motherhood as much as a savvy PR move. The reality is that I doubt too many employees will take them up on it. At least amongst the engineers, men still far outnumber women. I would be curious if they also cover costs related to fertility treatments/IVF.

    5. I find it pretty offensive that the lawyer is trying to claim sexism, actually.

      It’s clear that they went unrepresented to the first hearing date and got a continuance to hire counsel (her, apparently, since they had already met with her and must have known she was pregnant). So, they scheduled a hearing date weeks after their chosen counsel’s due date. Then, she accepted their money despite knowing she wouldn’t be available for the rescheduled hearing date. It is irresponsible, as a solo practitioner, to agree to represent someone at a previously rescheduled hearing that you can’t attend.

      It is also irresponsible, as a human being, to bring a child to court instead of hiring a babysitter.

      1. Interesting. It does sound like there were some poor decisions made all around. That said, in my experience, continuances are usually pretty liberally granted, so I don’t think that it would have been completely terrible to take a case on the assumption that you could get a continuance for the upcoming hearing (I’m basing that on practices of judges I’ve been before, of course if there were different practices there that would change things). So, I think that the judge was in the wrong, even though the attorney probably could have handled it better by making sure that she had a back up to help out and/or getting someone to watch the kid for the hearing, even if they had to just keep him or her in the lobby.

        1. The judge is clearly a bit of a hard*ss (or use word of your own choice). That said, this is much more of a solo practitioner issue than a woman’s issue. Yes, most judges would have granted the continuance, but faced with that situation, the solo lawyer should have either hired a per diem attorney to cover the appearance, or if that wasn’t possible, hired a babysitter. Bringing a baby to court is just a major way to antagonize the judge; it was a totally provocative thing to do. If I was her client, I would fire her.

      2. I’m not offended by the judge’s actions either. The attorney should not have accepted a case, knowing that she could not attend the hearing. Her motion states that this is the first continuance through this counsel, so it appears that her client had requested prior continuances.

  5. How do you deal with a partner (at work, not personally because I would dump him) that is essentially a self-absorbed jerk? He has absolutely no consideration for anyone else’s schedules or priorities or lives, wants everyone and everything to revolve around him. He sends rude emails because I can’t read his mind and write things exactly as he would. Plus he makes all sorts of disparaging comments about me personally and I’m just getting so fed up. I can barely remain civil anymore.

    1. You get so busy with work from other partners that you just can’t seem to fit his into your schedule. Otherwise, find a partner you can confide in with the ability to shelter you (this only works after you’ve established a strong reputation as someone the company wants to keep).

    2. Depends on where you are in terms of being fed up, and this is def a know-your-office/know-how-powerful this guy is/whether he’s known as impossible to work with.

      That said, the next time he really lashes out at you (in person), I’d shut the door and say, “[Partner], I enjoy working on your matters, but I do better work when things stay civil and are not personal. I am indeed taking your comments to heart, am working quite hard, and am doing my best to correct course as you give feedback, but we will work much better together if you keep your comments focused on my work product. Thanks.”

      Sometimes this is bullying (even in the all-powerful law firm context), and saying something like that can shake someone out of an abusive pattern.

      Good luck. I also cosign the advice to fill up your plate with work from another partner who has as much or more pull.

    3. You get over it because that’s tons of law firm partners, focus on getting better at reading his mind, and suck it up. And re-watch the devil wears prada.

      1. This. Accept it and work with it, or move on.

        I worked for a partner like this. Once, he assigned me a brief to write over Christmas (when I already had one to write) because no one could possibly expect him to work and to have a nice holiday with his family. How he got to be a partner without working over the holidays ever, I do not know. I was at my breaking point when the situation changed and I no longer have to work for/with him. So, if you can’t get away from him, I’d start looking for a new job. My life is way better now.

    4. Thanks ladies – to be clear, I’m not trying to whine about it. I really do want advice on how to accept this – I find it so hard to accept being treated poorly but I know it’s part and parcel of this job sometimes.

      I will try to speak up like MJ suggested – I think it’s just been a lot of time with him lately and I need some space, which will probably be coming in a couple weeks, but I probably need some coping strategies to deal with this when it inevitably happens again.

      1. Remind yourself that this what you are getting paid for, at least in part: putting up with crappy treatment from a DOOSH. It just another thing on your to-do list.

    5. I totally get where the advice to “suck it up and deal with it” comes from, but no. Here’s my advice as a BigLaw partner: If he’s a jerk to you, he’s been a jerk to every other associate that’s come up through the ranks, some of whom are now partners, and he’s a jerk to his partners. There are people who can be a sounding board for you, advocate for you, and help you navigate it. They don’t want more (because I’m assuming there is a trail) good people to go because of one guy who can’t control his behavior. You are allowed to stand up for yourself–in conversations with him, by seeking advice for others, and by leaving if it comes to that.

      I’m a partner who works with a senior partner like this, and I am in a position to influence his behavior toward associates. I can’t help if I don’t know what’s going on. Find someone you trust and talk to them.

      1. I totally agree, k-padi. Of course I think that egg freezing, IVF, contraception, and other family planning assistance should be insured or available through work. But my feelings are ambivalent because this is just one more way in which the burden of having children becomes disproportionately shifted to women. In some ways, the more control women have (or appear to have) with respect to childbearing, the bigger the hit when they choose to have children. If egg freezing is widely available and commonplace, then the 29-year-old who has a child may appear to be intentionally devaluing her career. After all, if she likes her job so much, why not just wait to have kids later? In an ideal world, egg freezing benefits would be accompanied by intensive cultural shifts that make it easier to continue working when you actually have the children.

    6. If he doesn’t respond to your request to be civil, you can’t leave the firm, or work more with another partner, then perhaps asking him what is on his mind is the way to go. It can be hard and condescending, but sometimes I will say, “I know you like things a certain way, is there something you would like to see before I draft it?” or “I have a draft ready, would you like to sit down and tell me what you think about it — show no mercy! — so that I can learn better for the future?” It’s all about tone and requires a great deal of swallowing your pride, but perhaps it will avoid the problem of “I can’t read his mind” – so why not just ask him. Alternatively, if asking him annoys him, perhaps it will highlight in his mind that he is too picky or micromanaging. As for personal comments, I’d try what others have suggested (closing the door and talking, leaving, working with someone else), but I find those characters are everywhere in life. Good luck!

  6. The good habits discussion the other day inspired me – has anyone successfully stopped slouching? It became a habit probably partially due to the, erm, excess weight on my front, but now I’m finding when I focus on keeping my shoulders back, my back hurts between my shoulder blades. Any suggestions? I already do yoga, work on my core, and do shoulder strengthening exercises like pushups and lat pulldowns.

    1. Maybe add post-deltoid work to your repertoire? (Those are the muscles that hold up your shoulder blades.)

    2. Hmm, I was going to suggest weight lifting because that has certainly made my posture better.

      but, if your back hurts as opposed to just being sore (meaning, the muscles aren not just tired from pulling your shoulders back because they are not strong enough), then maybe you have some knots that a good RMT could fix?

      Also, lat pulldowns and pushups (they will a bit, but my understanding is that your chest and deltoids work a lot for pushups) won’t really help your trapezius muscles. Try rowing. movements- anything that requires you to push your shoulders back

      1. I was on the crew team way back when, and actually still have the rowers’ bulky shoulders that don’t fit in a lot of women’s suit jackets, and I think is part of what contributes to me looking so incredibly round shouldered when I’m not standing up straight. I’ll add trapezius exercises to the routine and see if it helps, thanks.

        1. How about ballet? I think that has totally helped with me posture. My teacher always talks about keeping the collarbones wide – I think this helps with keeping the shoulders back, but not tensed up near your ears. Come to think about it, she also mentions keeping space between your ears and your shoulders.

      2. Baconpancakes – google ch@st (replace @ with “e”) stretch at sportsinjuryclinic.net. You execute it in a doorway – I do it daily to counteract computer hunch – stretches pectoralis major and minor. Also google Spinal Kyphosis.

        The other thing I like is using Miracle Ball Method. Balls and book sold on amazon for $16. Complete the stretch where you put the balls under scapula/shoulder blade. Serious relief.

    3. What do you mean by “keeping your shoulders back?” I’m not an ergonomics expert by any means, but my understanding is that your shoulders should be level, not tensed up around your ears, and not hunched forward, but not necessarily pulled back either. More like a neutral position. Maybe you are overcorrecting, and that’s what’s causing some of the discomfort? For better posture, focus more on keeping your core engaged — your shoulders will naturally want to align over your more-upright body because it’s easier.

      1. My friend sent a picture of me from the side, and I look like an old lady, hugely rounded shoulders, head over my chest. I used to do Alexander Technique, and know what neutral feels like, but when I hold that position, the muscles between my shoulder blades start to ache within a minute.

        How do you keep your core engaged? Does that just mean clenching your abs?

        1. Google Supta Baddha Konasana. buy one of those yoga foam blocks and put it on the floor. Lie down on top of it so it’s in the small of your back and your shoulders “fall open” as shown in any of the pictures for that yoga pose. It may feel a little uncomfortable in your back at first but eventually as gravity take your shoulders down it feels awesome.

          I think yoga and pilates are best for posture, alignment, and making sure your core is developed enough to hold everything up appropriately.

        2. Here’s the best way I can explain engaging your core. You know how when you take a deep breath and your lungs fill up, rib cage expands and your stomach sucks in and up? Try to tighten your stomach (mimicking that sucking in and up feeling) without expanding your rib cage. You should feel it both in the front and the sides. It’s not just about tensing, it’s also about the lifting.

          1. Yes to the lifting rather than tensing. I remember my dance teacher admonishing little 5-year-old me to imagine a thread pulling my head up toward the ceiling — that still always works for me. Also, think of sitting up “tall” rather than sitting up “straight.”

        3. I’ve had neck pain caused by similar posture issues, and one of the exercises my PT gave me was something like a pushup but on my knees and elbows, focusing on using the muscles between my shoulder blades. Sort of hard to explain, but I think it helped some.

      2. I have horrible computer posture (shoulders by ears, mouse overuse one one hand, slumping, head in front of body and not back in line with my torso). I worry that it will metasticize as my posture generally.

      3. “Shoulders back” used to be taught to young ladies as the “correct” posture. I believe it was from a cosmetic point of view, not for health. I don’t ever consciously put my shoulders back, and I think I’d look silly doing so.

    4. I noticed recently that certain posture-supporting muscles had really come awake and my chiropractor identified them as the rhomboids, so you might look into strengthening those. (She likewise advised me to engage my core to aid in schlepping my normal daily load, but I’ve never really figured out how to do that and breathe! I suppose we just need to re-engage it on every exhalation, as in yoga.)

    5. Do pilates. Get a good bra. If your front is truly massive to the point where it’s causing you pain, a breast reduction is something many women choose to pursue.

    6. For me, martial arts training that emphasized posture made the biggest difference, but also getting a standing desk that I can work at ergonomically rather than trying to make the best of an improperly laid out desk/chair.

    7. +1 to imagining a thread coming from the top of your head. And to add on, instead of pulling your shoulders back, imagine opening your chest. The easiest way I can describe it is, standing tall with your arms to your sides, slightly turn your hands outwards, so your elbows come in a little bit. It should have the effect of opening your chest.

  7. I think the featured suit looks silly, like the pants shrunk. Does not look good or business-appropriate to me.

      1. Agree. I can’t unsee those booties, so the whole suit looks informal to me. And ankle-length pants still read as much too informal, imo, for my business casual-California Big Law office. If I’m trying to determine if an outfit is too “casual” in the business casual spectrum, I always imagine how I’d look in a meeting next to a guy in a dress shirt, tie, and nice slacks, or even just dress shirt and slacks, which is the fairly standard uniform for males in my office. I feel like ankle-length pants come out as unprofessional-looking in that comparison.

    2. Yes, I also see pants where there is a small bit OK skin showing between pant and boot as silly looking and not-for-me. It makes me think of being picked on for having “high waters” when I had a growth spurt as a teen and suddenly all my pants were too short but it wasn’t in my family’s budget to buy me a whole new wardrobe.
      If I saw this on the street I would probably not even notice it (or just wonder if her ankles are cold) and I think it would be fine styled with shoes not booties – but if you want my opinion its nope, not for me.

      1. I agree. I think I would rather see this suit with a pair of high heeled pumps. Even then, it just does not look right to me. The model is thin…if she were not, it would look even worse. Almost like the wearer could not get the pants in her size.

      2. OMG Meg Murray, the same exact thing happened to me with the same nickname! Was your growth spurt in 7th grade? I’m still mad at my parents for not buying me new pants that fit mid year!

    3. Yeah, I’m not a huge fan of this look. Plus, I’m tall and I got teased a lot as a kid for having highwater pants because I grew so fast. I’m scarred for life.

      It took me a long time to come around to 3/4 length sleeves for the same reason.

    4. I’m wearing cobalt ankle pants today with heels, a black shell and a black blazer with cream piping. My (government) workplace has a pretty varied dress code though and when I ran into the head of our ministry today I felt fine :).

  8. I just saw that I posted this as the only comment on the second page of today’s first thread. Here’s to hoping someone who can use it sees this!

    I have a 25% off any online purchase at Banana Republic coupon that expires today. I don’t believe that it is linked to my account, so anyone should be able to use it. BZ4HP19NFHRT. It’s a one-time use code, so please post if you use it.

      1. Fantastic! I’ve used coupons from here before, and I’m so glad that I could finally contribute.

  9. Threadjack for a problem I could really use advice on.

    SO has a younger sister and we have been close basically since we met (neither of us has other sisters). She’s a little bit younger than me but not by much. To put it in a nutshell, we were raised VERY differently. My brother and I studied all of the time and money was spent on educational activities and that’s basically it. My parents are very critical people (if you got a 95% on the test, the question was why you didn’t get 100% at about age 8) and we were never allowed to quit anything we started (which I even understood and agreed with when I was a child, frankly). SO and his sister have probably the polar opposite situation. Their mother is the sweetest, most nurturing woman ever and I’ve never heard her criticize EVER. If they want something- out comes the credit card. If they don’t feel like doing something – eh, then don’t do it sweetheart. My first Christmas dating him she shipped a full box with 10+ intricately wrapped thoughtful, expensive gifts. I love her so very much, but she is very close with SO’s sister- they are really more friends than mother and daughter.

    The problem is that as a result of this hyper supportive upbringing and no consequences for basically anything, SO’s sister has no discipline. She’s 25 and doesn’t have a checking account because she charges everything to mom and dad’s plastic and they pay the bill. (SO is shockingly very down to earth and we share finances and I have never had even a hint of an issue with him. We are very much on the same page that his family financial situation is extremely unhealthy, so that’s not really the issue here). She told me once that she just really doesn’t want to work, which just didn’t sit well with me because I ate ramen noodles through college and law school and basically didn’t have furniture while she buys chanel and louboutins on the regular. Also, she has a boyfriend and I don’t understand how a woman can claim to love someone and simultaneous have no problem with saying that they have to exclusively earn a living and they will just take all of the money and buy expensive crap (and she does not do housework. Super Mom does everything so she doesn’t lift a finger at home. That is not the situation here.) After 6 years she recently graduated from college (she was taking less than a full course load while living at home the entire time) and has relocated closer to SO and I with her boyfriend (he is starting graduate school). She’s making no attempt to find a job, mostly because she doesn’t want to grind at the bottom. Just wants to be handed a glamorous job without putting the groundwork in. Or preferably no job at all! SO’s parents claimed to us that they were cutting her off when she left the house but there’s no way that is happening and nor do we really feel it’s our place to question their decision to cut her off or not.

    I was always able to keep a good lid on my judgment of the entire situation, but I recently hit a boiling point. She flaked out on doing me a favor again and I pretty harshly said I wasn’t surprised. She got upset and I unapologetically said welp, you don’t exactly command respect or act particularly responsible about any aspect of your life so you shouldn’t be surprised when people come to that conclusion. I pretty immediately felt bad- SO and I had been talking about how I should just mind my own business and try not to let her life choices bother me. I apologized but did that sort of “Sorry- I’ll keep my nose out of your business. It’s not my place to lecture you and you don’t need to hear all of this from me.” But I could tell that she wasn’t happy with that. She was deeply offended that I even thought those thoughts to begin with about her, and I don’t blame her, but I don’t have a ton of remorse about my actual thought because in my mind they were kinda warranted…?

    It seems to me like this has to a community of women who have encountered a similar scenario in their lives. Most if not all of us have worked really hard to get where we are, and my impossibility to relate to people who don’t is affecting my relationships. I truly feel bad because I took a few low blows at her and I do love her- she’s basically my sister. But alas, not having a sister of my own and this being our very first fight I haven’t the slightest clue how to pacify the situation. Furthermore, while I am really sorry for my delivery, and I think it was an inappropriate time and way to say those things, I really am legitimately concerned about her and frankly really disgusted that she thinks its okay to not work while her boyfriend is in school and she just essentially is waiting for him to be done with school to support her. I’ve given her many leads for internship opportunities in her field in the past and she never follows up. She just lacks a lot of life skills due to a mom that was a best friend and cheerleader rather than a leader, but who wants their brother’s girlfriend to be the bad cop??

    Really have no clue what to do because I want a solution and not a band aid for this particular fight. I of course want to apologize and make this better but is there any way for me to address my real issues with her without making it worse? Am I just trying to change someone that can’t and won’t change? This hasn’t negatively affected my relationship with my SO yet (I’m closer to his sister than he is, and honestly he has a bad relationship with her mostly because of all of the above), but I really don’t want it to start to affect us, and I certainly don’t want it to affect my relationship with his mother.

    Any and all advice very much appreciated!

    1. I have a close cousin who is male and very much like this (without the wanting a husband to support him part). I offered to help him put a resume together so he can get job experience in the real world, etc, but he doesn’t want to. I don’t know that there is a real “solution” other than accepting that you can’t change other people, only your own actions. So, for now, I’ve stopped trying to help him, and am accepting him for who he is. When he’s 50 and I’m 60 and he’s still working odd jobs, it’s not.my.problem.

    2. This situation would absolutely make me crazy! I have no siblings myself so can’t really weigh into those dynamics/next steps but maybe this will be a bit of a wake up for her? She obviously puts weight on your opinion of her.

    3. My SO’s youngest brother is very similar to your SO’s sister, except that the parents can no longer afford to support his lifestyle (which isn’t flashy, but he just can’t be bothered to work, so they pay for his basic needs). Unfortunately, they don’t know how to say no to him either. It drives SO and I both nuts. Fortunately, we’re on the same page, and it sounds like you and your SO are, too. I’ve just learned to bite my tongue A LOT, esp once I realized that nothing I said was going to change his attitude and that me being critical of him was just riling me up more than it was opening his eyes.

      I totally get it though. SO and I work hard and the complete lack of work ethic from this sibling is just astonishing and utterly perplexing. As is the sense of entitlement.

    4. You need to stop judging her. Given your post (you point out multiple times her character failings, while making sure to highlight your own ramen eating past) that is going to be really hard for you. She has a different life than you. She doesn’t have to fit into your mold of what you think people should do. Would it drive me crazy sometimes? sure. But this isn’t your money she is using. You have to learn to accept her fully or accept that you aren’t going to be that close. Apologize sincerely. Tell her you were way out of line to make those comments (because you were) and you regret them. Don’t try to “address my real issues” because thats just it- they are YOUR issues, not hers and not both of yours. Your the only one with the issues, you can’t suddenly be her mom even if you think she didn’t have one.

        1. Agreed. You need a sincere apology, not a “I’m sorry I said what I truly think” apology. Her maturity, spending habits, work ethic, etc. are none of your concern.

          1. Yes, agree. Unless YOU are supporting her financially, this is none of your business.

            What I get from your post is that you’re a little jealous that she is basically cruising through life– and that’s totally understandable, I would probably feel the same way. But, that’s your issue.

      2. So I really do agree with this. I think I highlighted a lot more of the negative of this situation to get to the point as succinctly as possible (still failed pretty miserably at the brevity…). But here’s a wrinkle that I think changes things a little bit. (but maybe doesn’t?)

        It’s not like I bring up her life choices and goals every time we talk or see each other. She does. She values my opinion (she’s told me this in the past and her actions support that as she really does go out of her way to seek my advice). She talks to me about her life and about the things she wants to do and change about herself and asks for feedback. And I’ve had countless chats where I tell her how much I believe in her and how I think doing x, y, and z will get her places and she’s always very eager and appreciative and ready to take on the world! And then she changes literally nothing about her life and it’s like the conversation never happened. The conclusions I’ve come to are after 5 years of buying into her turning a new leaf every six months and being around long enough to see it not happen. (And admittedly I was pretty emotional when I wrote all of it, I just needed to vent the ugliest of the ugly after always putting a positive spin on my opinion.)

        I guess I just wanted to make clear that I haven’t been forcing advice upon her for years on end without her consent. She’s always asked, and I think it makes it a trickier little dance.

        I agree this is my issue, I think me airing all of it out was partially because I understand that and was kind of looking for advice on how to inwardly deal with this and not damage my relationships. Since wholesale bottling of emotions didn’t exactly work out this time.

        Anyways, I hear you and I appreciate you telling me straight the ugly side of my viewpoint. Exactly what kind of hypocrite would I be if I can’t take what I can dish out? ;)

        1. Crap, hit report instead of reply, sorry!

          She may be asking for your advice, but my experience with people like this is when they say “advice” they mean “agreement/support with/for my decisions/lifestyle.” I agree with everyone that has said it’s none of your business. She isn’t using your money and it doesn’t sound like any of this is truly affecting you and your SOs life other than making you crazy about it. You can’t make her change and you shouldn’t be trying to.

    5. I’m unsure what you mean by “is there any way to address my real issues with her…” Do you mean to ask how you can make her shape up and become the responsible person you wish she was? Because the answer to that is no, there is no way. You need to accept her as she is, full stop. She flaked out on you? That sucks, but now you know she’s not dependable. There’s nothing you can do to make her more dependable and it’s not your place to try. Stop sending her internship leads. Stop asking her for favors. Accept her the way she is and enjoy her company. If she asks you for advice, share it, but you have to give up your goal. Take a yoga class or something and chill out.

      1. I agree with this. I think you can either (i) only be friends with people whose values align perfectly with your own, which means you won’t be exposed to many viewpoints, or (ii) accept people the way they are. Enjoy what you enjoy with her, but I would let go of the idea that she will be dependable or responsible. And I would not give her advice unless she asks for it; most people really do not like unsolicited advice.

    6. Not your circus, not your monkeys. My own brother, despite being raised in the very same strict household I was, has huge entitlement/ laziness issues that sound similar to your SO’s sister. If I give any hint of criticism, he balks and retreats for awhile, harming our friendship, which I value even if he can drive me nuts at times.

      You can’t lecture her into being the person you think she should be. Recognize that she won’t be likely to change anytime soon (or possibly ever), and gauge how you want your relationship with her to be based on who she is. This is really the same advice I would give for any relationship, no matter how close you are, whether a friend, sibling, parent, or partner. You have to accept people as they are (barring, of course, behavior that harms others). You can call her out on behaviors that affect you, but you can’t take that as a chance to give a laundry list of her flaws.

      I’d also be careful about criticizing her/ her upbringing overly much to your SO, who was raised in the same household. While he may well agree with you on many points, it still has some sting in it. A bit too close to home, you know?

      I hope this doesn’t sound callous, I know how exasperating this can be! Good luck.

    7. So, why is this your problem? Like, at all? I am 100% a judgy fixer and what I try to do is remind myself that it’s ok for me to draw my own boundaries, and it’s also ok for other people to live really different lifestyles. I am not their mom , I am their friend. So if they ask for advice, I’ll give it, but if not, I enjoy them for what they bring to my life. And if, on balance , what they bring is drama, I either cool off on the friendship or try and sincerely enjoy the window into a different world.

    8. Why are you close friends with this person? Seriously… she sounds kind of awful, and it’s clear you don’t respect her, and she seems to be incapable of fulfilling normal “friend” obligations (although I think it was ridiculous of you to expect her to be doing you any favors, frankly, given what you’ve described).

      So… yes. You are just trying to change something that can’t and won’t change. You are not her mom, you can’t make her grow up, and I think you are well within your rights to distance yourself given her utter failure to be an adult human being.

      ETA: Anne Shirley has better advice than I do: Back off, lower your expectations to zero, and enjoy her for what she brings to your life.

    9. Oh my god. My BIL is more or less like your SO’s sister, except we haven’t had a confrontation. And he joined a cult. oh, and DH’s parents think BIL is so wonderful and smart and perfect and would love to continue paying for everything forever (there’s also been hugely differential treatment between DH and BIL) anyway, it drives me absolutely insane. He also lived with us for awhile while “trying to look for a job,” and he wasn’t making use of the opportunity so we asked him to leave.

      Here’s how I’ve handled the situation, and I think it’s about the best I could have done. I told him nicely and candidly where I thought he was going wrong in a loving older sister type way. He heard me out and said he took it to heart, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t. DH and I also had separate conversations with his dad, which went over very well but he wasn’t willing to do anything (I’d caution you against talking to the parents though, it’s a very know your SO’s parents kind of situation) Anyway, after I shared my thoughts with BIL, which I did on two occasions, I basically haven’t had any contact with him. my in-laws are driving me absolutely insane, and DH and I are completely not family oriented people, so that works in our case- and may not work in yours. The point remains though, put some distance there. My rationale for this is that I just need some time and space in order to not hate him and preserve a good relationship. DH and I are on the same page about things, but it has been some work to keep having an evolving discussion about it.

      Also, in all cases, I framed this as a “I love BIL and think he has a ton of potential and want the best for him, but I really think he needs x. I’m telling you this because if I were (you/a parent, depending on who I’m talking to), I would want to know. Calm, collected, like you’re a loving sister. My father in law really appreciated my candor. Definitely have to frame it in that concerned constructive way though. Anyway, make sure you maintain a respectable distance from everyone when necessary.

      totally infuriating, though. I hear you

      ETA: after reading the above posts, it’s definitely true that this can’t be fixed and you probably can’t have a real friend relationship with her. I’m talking about preserving goodwill and warm feelings on both sides so you can get along well with SO’s family. If it works out better than that, wonderful. Probably won’t, though.

      1. Also, this situation was different in that he was living with us at the time and we were effectively his surrogate parents. Candor is good, I think, but if you feel further removed from the situation or just don’t want to get involved, that’s an excellent decision too.

    10. 1) Tell her how sorry you are and all the positive things you said here. That you love her and that she is like a sister to you, etc.
      2) It really is none of your business unless she makes it yours – by asking for your advice on all her issues, depending on you financially, expecting you to bail her out, etc. This also means that your apology shouldn’t be backhanded with “I love you like a sister, but I’m disgusted that…”

      You take people as they come. It’s not your place to change her relationship with her parents, her boyfriend, and her outlook on life. Nor is it your responsibility.

      1. I agree with pretty much everything written, and add: I think it’s interesting how intensely we react to people who simply don’t want to work. (The issue comes up on this discussion board fairly often.) Even when someone’s finances, health, etc are totally not our problem, it’s just infuriating to see an adult who refuses to work. I think we have deep cultural and psychological commitment to work, itself, as an ethos–apart from financial independence or anything work can bring. I’m using “we” in all sincerity because I notice this aversion in myself as well.

        If anyone is looking for a fiction meditation on this topic, try The Great Glass Sea! It contains characters who do not believe in work, or the imperative to work, and their dialogue was literally the first time I had ever heard anyone articulate that attitude. OP, I am not defending this or saying I’d be comfortable with it either, but it is helpful to think about what values are at play since this is an important relationship in your life.

        1. I don’t know about the imperative to work–for me, it’s more about having hot running water, and a safe home I enjoy and knowing that my parents couldn’t be able to provide that for me indefinitely.

          1. Right, and that’s the case for almost everyone. I’m saying that a case like this, in which someone avoids work and really faces zero material consequences for it, makes me look a little more critically at what the “problem” really is.

        2. In a capitalist society, your value as a person is tied to your economic value. We aren’t quite so literal about this is everyday life, but I think this is why we have difficulty ascribing value to stay at home spouses or parents, and take it extra hard when we’re out of work or unable to climb the ladder the way we’d like. As a person in a transition period of her career, it sucks. I cringe whenever I get the “so, what do you do?” question at social outings.

          1. The economic value of stay at home moms is rather high, however it is assumed that their opportunity costs are very low which is why they choose to stay at home which is exactly why it is difficult to “ascribe value” to these individuals.

    11. Not your problem, although…wow. Would be tough to swallow when someone you care about is so dependent on others. On the other hand – are SO’s parents totally able to support her and themselves forever? If the parents are siphoning off their income to support her, and don’t have enough themselves to manage retirement, that may end up being your SO’s problem if he ends up feeling like hke he needs to help them. As long as the parents can afford it though, there isn’t much to do.

    12. “Am I just trying to change someone that can’t and won’t change?”

      Yes.

      My SIL does some of this stuff as well and it used to really bother me. Then I realized it wasn’t my problem. She will either learn to grow up or she won’t and she can deal with the consequences. Once I realized it wasn’t my job to fix her, it bothered me less.

      Do yourself a favor and stop trying to help her get a job or fix her. Enjoy her company for what it is and let the rest go.

    13. All,

      I am really, really grateful for your insights! For those of you that can relate really directly to my situation- the commiseration and direct tips are SO appreciated. It’s nice to see how you navigated these situations. And for those of you that are pointing out it’s not my place to give unsolicited advice- 100% on the same page with you! Isn’t it interesting how we can be 100% self-aware about a personality flaw and then stall when it comes to actually fixing it? Hearing it from 6 different people (after hearing it from your SO for 5 years) oddly helps?

      Looks like I need to do a little soul searching as I think this is more of a “me” problem than an “us” problem. I’m a young Biglaw associate, so I have basically no control over my life- maybe this is my sad attempt to control *something*. She certainly didn’t do anything *to* me and hasn’t personally put me out yet with her behavior.

      Might take Anon’s suggestion on the yoga class for good measure ;)

      Thanks again for all of your comments- I am seriously overwhelmed by how kind and thoughtful you all are regarding what is likely the most frivolous problem you’ve heard about all day!

      1. Are there geographical differences here? My SIL lives in a conservative southern state where many women go to school to get their MRS and then be SAHM/W. It is, to them, a valid career choice. It is much more common there than my northern state. If she was brought up that this is normal (be supported by bank of dad than bank of husband) she probably sees no fault in her ways. It’s like the old dream to win the lottery. Would you work if you didn’t have to?

        The only person I have openly judged for this – could not keep my mouth shut – was my husband’s friend’s wife that refused to work (no kids) but berated him for every penny he spent and insisted he take any overtime ever offered. I was present when she laid into him for buying coffee on one of those night shifts. Finally I said ” Jesus, if you are so worried about spending money why don’t you make some yourself?” No surprise, she hates me now. He actually loved it which makes me sadder if this is an arrangement he doesn’t like but won’t try to change. Not my business though and I should have kept my mouth shut. (Though I think if you argue in front of your friends you are asking for commentary. )

    14. Stop judging here. Her Mom’s approach isn’t the issue. Plenty of people are raised that way and are ambitious. But ambition isn’t some great virtue. It may be what matters to you, but some people are happy getting married, and being the supportive spouse. No, it’s not for a lot of people here (and it’s not for me) but it’s a perfectly valid way to live and if you want to actually be friends with her, you’ll need to start accepting her choices, even if they’re different from yours.

  12. What percentage of women at your workplace would you say dress well for work? By dress well I mean everything fits more or less as it should and they look put together and professional, not necessarily anything special or out of the ordinary. Since reading this blog, I’ve started to notice people around me and what they wear, and it kind of seems like everyone wears unprofessional and/or ill fitting things. Makes me wonder whether we patrons of this blog are just into looking good at work for personal interest purposes or whether there’s actually a lot to be said for looking one’s best.

    1. I’ve been reading this blog for years because I have a personal interest in fashion, but the vast majority of the women I encounter at work, even the very high level ones, do not put much effort into their looks. I don’t view being fashionable as a professional necessity at all.

      1. Oh I don’t mean fashionable, I just mean put together in that there’s nothing obviously wrong with what you’re wearing. I don’t think I’m fashionable at all, but I think I’ve finally learned how not to look like a disaster. First I thought I was doing it to be taken seriously, and since it seems like I/most people could go to work in a paper bag and be all right, i guess I’m just doing it because I feel better about myself.

        1. I agree completely with this. In my field at least, I don’t think looking put together equates to being taken more seriously. Yes, those in the top echelons of the company are put together, but there are also many very successful people here who just don’t look really well put together.

    3. We have about 100 people in my office. Ages are fairly equally spread and I think women are in the majority. Of these, I can think of 7 my age (under 35) and maybe 4 older women who always seem put together. What bothers me is that all the younger women I consider put together/well dressed are quite slender (most of the put together older women are not). I can’t tell if this is a reflection of my own ideas around body issues or not.

      Also, in realizing that there are a lot more women who look put together than I thought, I really need to step my game up.

    4. All the women on the top two teams in my company look pretty put-together all the time (all under 35 – we have a very young company). The only C-level woman in my company dresses impeccably, all the female directors and regional managers dress very well. More women on lower-level teams, with less-to-no client interaction, tend towards more schlubby/questionable.

        1. I think it mostly just helps, and when you’re on a team that prides itself on being the best, that translates itself to appearance. Additionally, I think there’s an internal pressure to dress well when the team around you dresses well.

    5. Good question! It made me realize that most women I interact with do not dress professionally. I don’t think that means it is not important for me to dress nicely though. It just means that I stand out more (in a good way) when I make the effort.

    6. I can confidently say, to date, I have not met a single woman who dresses perfectly at work.
      I see many people with horrible outfits, but those who somehow follow the dress code wear too tight clothing or too high heels etc.
      This was one of the reasons I turned to this blog in the first place.

    7. I was one of those people but realized that looking better would influence others’ perceptions of me. I figure I need all the help I can get and by not caring, I was leaving ‘something on the table’.

      So I read this and CapHillStyle, and although I’m not really into fashion per se, I’ve started using a personal shopper. She’s finding it amusing that I have FINALLY started developing opinions. I don’t have a desire to have a huge wardrobe but find that increasing my efforts makes me feel more confident. I’m not a lawyer but a consultant.

  13. I have been using the same drycleaner for cleaning and alterations for probably 6 years without incident.

    This morning, I went to put on a recently-drycleaned dress and it is 4 inches shorter than it used to be. It had never been cleaned or laundered before.

    I am so bummed.

    1. Was it perhaps a Banana Republic wool something? Because I’ve had multiple BR suiting items shrink up (but weirdly mostly only in length rather than overall size) after dry cleaning for the first time. So I doubt it’s a dry cleaning problem, but rather a garment problem, if you’ve never had issues before.

      1. No, Tory Burch. 100% rayon dress. Tag says dry-clean only. I’m going to try and stretch it back to its original size using some instructions i found on the internet (the source of all information, both reliable and bunk), and if it doesn’t work I’m going to throw myself on the mercy of Nordstrom’s awesome return policy since it shrank despite following care instructions.

        I’m bummed though. It’s a great dress and no longer available :(

      2. I’ve had the same issue with Jcrew. So, I definitely feel your pain, Drycleaner rant, but I think the rant should probably be directed at the clothing manufacturer (but hey, that’s a good thing! finding a drycleaner who you’ve used without incident for 6 years is amazing, so hopefully this means you can keep using them)

  14. What’s currently in style for eyewear? I’m overdue for a new pair. As a life-long glasses wearer, I’m a firm believer in the right pair is whatever feels good and looks good to you, but it would be nice to have a sense of current fashion before I go shopping.

    Although I’ll be buying from a particular source, I’ve looked at Warby Parker because they seem in vogue. Any other sources or articles to check out?

      1. I really like these.

        May I ask – what is your face shape, hair type, coloring?

        I have been struggling to figure out which glasses fit my face.

        Oval face, flat/straight hair, brown hair, hazel eyes

    2. No other suggestions. I will say I bought and love my Warby Parkers, but I do think you get what you pay for. I also bought a pair of glasses from my optometrist at the same time, and they cost 4x more, and I do think they’re 4x more durable and have significantly better lenses. Not to knock Warby, they have their place (again, I love my Warby frames for different options), but if you wear them all the time I would take that into account.

    4. Seconding the advice from BMBG, you do get what you pay for. I tried one of the more reputable online glass retailers and was disappointed because they made a mistake with the prescription, twice which makes a difference in my case. Other than that the frames were good, but obviously with the wrong prescription it’s frustrating.

      Some of the styles I like are from Vogue and DKNY available at Target Optical. Pricier than Warby Parky for sure but I have had my DKNY frames for almost 4 years now, daily wear. They are only starting to show signs of age but still wearable. So if it’s in your budget check out Target, also you don’t necessarily have to stick to the “designer” brands, I bought the pair I have because I liked the style and color not so much the brand name. Target has their own brands, you may also want to look at Walmart which seems to be making an effort to have affordable frames although some are rather plain, but definitely functional. (NB: Most frames sold in Pearl Vision, Target, LensCrafters etc are made by Luxottica which seems to have some kind of monopoly, so the designer factor is just a licensing deal made with some fashion houses that lets them charge really high prices for certain names).

      1. I’m buying from a brick-and-mortar store with a wide range (cost, style, brand), and honestly my lenses are so expensive that even most designer frames don’t add substantial cost. I’ll start with those brands and see what they have, at least to give me an idea of what maybe to aim for with other available frames.

  16. Does anyone have any comments on the Victoria Quilted Tote from Banana Republic? I’m looking for a professional laptop bag for work, with a feminine touch. Would love opinions on this one. (link to follow)

      1. I had a very similar tote from BR in college. It was fantastic! So light and comfy (and it doubled as a pillow in class). I like it. Someone up top posted a BR coupon code. FYI.

        1. Great, and that extra coupon put me over the edge. Purchased! I’ll report back when it arrives!

  17. I’m not a fan of this look.
    The suit is nice. The boots are nice. But together the proportion is off with that bit of skin showing between the pant and boot top. It’s just weird, not to mention if would make you look even shorter as it chops the leg.

    Would have been better with a kitten heel or even ballet flats.

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