Suit of the Week: Nine West
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Sales of note for 2/14/25 (Happy Valentine's Day!):
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- M.M.LaFleur – Save up to 25% on select suiting, this weekend only
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase — and extra 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + 15% off (readers love their suiting as well as their silky shirts like this one)
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 300+ styles $25 and up
- J.Crew – 40% of your purchase – prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site and storewide + extra 50% off clearance
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Flash sale ending soon – markdowns starting from $15, extra 70% off all other markdowns (final sale)
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
Oh my goodness, I love that!!! I think I’m going to buy it!
I love it too, but unfortunately have other pink jackets and don’t need more!
I think I need a pink jacket (maybe not poly though) after seeing this! I’m impressed you have multiples, I love fun jackets.
I like the color and the blazer, but I’m kind of meh on the skirt because of the front slit–I know that’s the way it’s supposed to be, but I feel like everyone would be giving me the Eyes of Judgment for getting my skirt all turned around. I rejected an otherwise lovely suit over the weekend because the skirt was like that one. Just can’t handle it.
But think how much fun would it be to stand there in front of the Eyes and stick your leg out like Angelina?
Ooh hadn’t thought about the Jolie angle!
I’d cut another slit so I could double Jolie.
I think that’s just called popping a squat Kanye.
Grande plié, à la seconde, more like.
(:
That’s just french for popping a squat. :-)
It’s all in the technique.
:D
I love it too except the rolled up sleeves! I hate that! I think I need to get over it though, because it actually looks better on a suit like this than traditionally non-rolled sleeves would.
Sigh. Maybe I need to start dressing up more for work.
I like it, too, but I wonder if suits in colors like this will be dated. In 10-15 years from now, we’re all gonna be, “Ugh, that was so early 2010’s, what were we thinking?”
I live in the south, and I think suits like this are always in style! But, either way, it’s so cheap that it’s no big deal if we end up regretting it later. And I think the cut is classic enough that we won’t regret it in the way we do, say, hammer pants.
Hammer pants are back, btw, except this time, the new twist is the drop-crotch.
To think, some of us cringed for having Hammer Pants in the ’90s, but in a few years, people will be cringing because they bought pants in the 2010s that made them look like MC Hammer except with Grandpa-Butt.
LOL at grandpa-butt!!
Yeah — but seriously, what’s the likelihood that some random Nine West you bought on-sale from Macy’s is still going to be in rotation in your wardrobe in 10-15 years anyway. Some items are just for fun now, they don’t have to be timeless!
I don’t really keep suits 10-15 years anyway, at this price if I got more a couple of years out of it it would be worth it… but I just don’t know if I could pull off that much color.
Oh man, I have this suit in navy! It makes me feel special to own something featured here. It’s a pretty comfy suit, as they go, and I do agree with those who’ve pointed out the weird skirt slit, but it doesn’t show anything and I haven’t noticed it much.
What’s the sizing like?
Where did you find it? I’d love the blazer in navy!
It was at Macy’s two weeks ago. It fits pretty true to size, the jacket is a touch big but not much. I’m a size 12.
Me too, but it is a little to Easter’y for me!!!!
MOROVER, I think I would look just like the EASTER bunny weareing this suit, and the manageing partner WOULD objectify me by saying that I am trying to hard to be cute!
So THEREFORE, I will stick to gray and black and tan suits, so that he can NOT start thinking of me as his cute little play pet! Fooey on him and his bad breathe.
The manageing partner objectifies the Easter Bunny? Does that mean he’s a furry? This is a whole new development in his character, how exciting!
This made my day.
I don’t like this Ellen. Not enough deviant spelling and too much appropriate capslock. Try again later.
Agreed. Clearly not the original Ellen.
$117? It’d be worth it just for the fun separates.
Going anon for a threadjack…
Question for fellow lawyers: Recently I was approached about taking a permanent federal district court clerkship. I’m really tempted but I have some doubts, mainly relating to whether I’d be giving up or underachieving somehow. I’m a litigator now in a government job; before that, I was in biglaw, and before that, I clerked (federal appellate). I don’t like my current job for a few reasons (including an unpleasant boss and the type of cases I get). So a change would be nice. But, I have a lot of years left in my career, and taking a permanent clerkship could be giving up on actually practicing, forever. Even if that’s an exaggeration, there’s no clear path forward if I ever left the clerkship. The ambitious/ overachieving part of my personality worries that taking the job would be regressing— basically, retiring after only 10 years of “real” practicing. On the other hand, research and writing are my favorite things; I’m an introvert and don’t need to be around people; and the judge is someone I truly respect and admire.
So, maybe I should just ask: what do you all think of permanent clerkships?
How will you feel watching the new law school alumni and alumnae come through and clerk for one year before going off to earn big $$$ in BigLaw?
I did a one-year clerkship for a judge with one permanent clerk. My boss was all around amazing, IMO, so I thought the permanent clerk had a pretty sweet gig. I don’t have as much legal experience as it sounds like you do, but my hesitation would be exactly the same–I would worry that I wasn’t being ambitious enough or that I would get frustrated by the lack of potential for advancement. I have heard that it’s hard to transition back to practice once you’ve been clerking for a while, so I am eager to hear responses on this, too.
Is it the loss of practicing or the money that you fear? Because I think you could still overachieve by writing articles and speaking. Or write a book.
I think you would need to feel out where the judge was on clerks writing and giving speeches. I could see some courts not being comfortable with that kind of activity.
One more thought–I know you said you admire this judge, but do you think you would enjoy a district court clerkship as much as your appellate one? My clerkship was appellate, too, but it seems like a district court clerkship is a different kind of writing and more interaction with other people, depending on what kind of contact you would have with the parties and how much the judge expected you to be in the courtroom.
Man, I’d take it, especially if having a family is important to you. I think if you end up staying for ten plus years, then you’ll not necessarily be all that marketable, but if you stay for a few years, it will only help you. You can plan to stay for at least that long and see if you love it. These opportunities come up so rarely, I’m afraid you would regret not taking it.
Speaking as someone who has done both federal appellate and district court clerkships, I agree that the two are completely different. That being said, I enjoyed the district court clerkship a lot more. It’s more fast-paced and, based on my experience, you actually do more research and writing than you would in an appellate clerkship since you (a) handle a lot more cases and (b) the briefs aren’t always as well-written as those you see at the appellate level.
Some things to consider might be whether you want to work with new co-clerks every year (and it may be your responsibility to teach them the ropes) and how long your judge will be in that position (i.e., any chance he or she could be appointed to the appellate court? taking senior status in the foreseeable future?).
I would probably take the position. The pay is pretty decent and the hours are good. As for future opportunities, a lot of clerks go on to be judges themselves… :)
“As for future opportunities, a lot of clerks go on to be judges themselves… :)”
I was wondering about that. Are you saying that it’s (relatively) common for permanent clerks to go from clerking to being judges or that many judges have done clerkships at one point in their careers?
It was more just an observation that many judges were also clerks at some point. I can’t speak as to whether this is a common thing for permanent clerks.
That’s what I figured you meant, I just figured I’d ask in case you had seen some crazy statistics that I’ve missed :)
That is actually the only reason I wouldn’t take the position. I’d love to be a judge someday, and I don’t see how a permanent clerk could ever really take the bench directly from the clerkship. None of the recent appointees have been permanent clerks that I’m aware of.
A career clerk may not have a good chance of being appointed a district court judge, but for magistrate or bankruptcy positions, it’s certainly possible. Just did a quick search and found these two examples:
http://mcsmith.blogs.com/eastern_district_of_texas/2006/12/chad_everingham.html
http://www.bankruptcylawnetwork.com/new-bankruptcy-judge-appointed-in-charlotte-nc/
I would DO it. Having practiced now in a law firm, I think I want to become a judge and what better expereince could their be then to CLERK!!!!
I could NOT get this job out of school b/c I was not in the top 10%, but NOW, b/c of my EXPEREINCE, I think I would DO it well. And if the judge is nice, it would be an improvment over the manageing partner, who is very BUSY stareing at me all day.
I am better then all that. FOOEY!
Um….we do not have contact with the parties to any significant degree. Usually the judge’s assistant handles contact with the public and the lawyers. Judges vary on courtroom duties; usually the courtroom deputy handles things in court, not the elbow clerk. Of course, in districts (like ours) where the judge hires a third elbow clerk instead of a deputy, that is different. But then you just sit up by the judge and keep track of exhibits, etc.
I think this varies between chambers. I interned in d.ct chambers where the clerks seemed to have more regular contact with parties than what you’re describing.
Maybe, but it’s not like you have clients to please or are in a service position (except vis-a-vis the judge).
I had a similar opportunity a few years after finishing my 2-yr dist ct clerkship, when I was a federal litigator. After much thought, I decided to stay where I was, mainly because I liked being a litigator, I loved my work & supervisor, and I wanted to be handling my own cases and making my own arguments. I guess going back to clerking seemed like a step backwards for my career, as I’d already been there. I also actually had more flexibility in my litigation job — I could take off easier for vacations and appointments, as I wasn’t tied to the judge’s rigid calendar. That said, I have heard great things about being a permanent clerk, and I think you could transition back into litigation as a lateral move eventually. People might think you did it so you could work fewer hours or have more family time. For me, sticking with my job was the right decision (I’m still there 15 years later and I love it), but for you, given that you don’t like your office, it might be one of the few ways to change your job and remain a federal employee.
Well, I would start by separating out your feelings on the job itself- from a pay, work, boss/hours perspective- and your feelings on how others view the job. From what you said above, it seems like you think you would really enjoy the job and the only problem is how others view the job. Then you need to decide what is more important. This is a personal choice and no one else can tell you how these things weigh out in your mind. Do you expect that you’ll want to go back to practicing? Or do you just feel guilty about not wanting to?
As far as what I think of it- yeah, being a permanent clerk is not the most prestigious job, but being a permanent federal clerkship is certainly at the higher end of permanent clerks. If you have a good judge for a boss, I think it is a pretty sweet gig. Great pay and benefits, good hours (if you have a good boss). I don’t think it will lock you out of practice forever, especially if you only do it for a few years. It’s valuable experience and connections and you can say you didn’t like your current position and wanted a change of pace.
Disclosure: I have an non prestigious job and I love it. So glad I’m not spending my entire career being miserable so that my resume looks impressive to random people.
This.
When I clerked (federal district court), my co-clerk was a career clerk. She and the judge had been law partners before he was appointed to the bench. When he got the appointment, he asked her if she wanted to be his career clerk and she accepted (while they were at the largest firm in a small town, it wasn’t like they were at BigLaw). She couldn’t be happier as a career–she makes just over six figures, she does interesting work, and has fairly predictable hours. But I never got the impression she really really loved being a litigator anyway; she did it because that’s what she thought she was supposed to do with a law degree.
If you have the personality that likes clerking and you like the judge (obviously a huge consideration), I’d vote take the job. Alternatively, give him my phone number :)
I actually seriously considered this route. I clerked for a district court judge after practicing for a while, and my judge would have let me stay on permanently if I wanted to. I decided to try to get my #1 dream job (teaching) instead, but I still think it’s a great option. The pay is good, the work is interesting and, depending on the judge, the lifestyle is impossible to beat. The main downside is that you are really tying your fate to the judge in many ways. And certain snobs won’t think it’s very prestigious. But whether that matters is up to you.
I do this but at a state court. In a way, maybe it’s even less prestegious that what you’re considering. But the way I look at it, I have a 9-5 schedule, a great salary plus benefits [up to mid six figures with regular raise scheds/starting at low six figures, a pension, all federal holidays off, 25 vacation days on top of that and plenty of sick time], I LOVE what I do, I frequently get interesting/important cases, I feel fantastic about my work, I can actually have a family and a social life, I am an essential component of our justice system, and I love the folks I work with, including the freshly minted jr. clerks that come to us on a term basis. Also, in state court, the clerks interact a lot with the attorneys at all stages of the case, so I get to be involved from the preliminary conference on, setting discovery, resolving disputes, sometimes even supervising depositions. Seeing something I drafted on a novel issue of law become the “rule” in the state is also a fantastic feeling.
What is less fantastic is that you do become a bit dependant on your judge and his career prospects, and most people, even many attorneys, have no idea what you do and/or just do not understand your job. But I don’t actually think of it as less prestigious because when that Sr. Partner from FancyMcFancy firm comes in with a motion, guess who’s writing the draft of that decision? This gal! ;) And as far as career potential, I think you could probably anticipate parlaying your experience into a magistrate position and then parlay that into an District Ct appt. Or, you could run to become a state court judge — that’s my ultimate plan — in my state, many of the judges come from the permanent clerk pool since it’s considered to be the best training for the position. Anyway, those are my 2 cents. Obviously, to each her own, but I don’t think it’s a dead end at all, especially because you already have so much litigation experience it’s not as if someone could say you don’t know your way around the Courtroom or the Rules of Evidence. So often, people think there is only one surefire path to something so they say, “oh if I want to be a federal court judge, I have to clerk and then work at the US Attny’s Office,” except when everyone does that, that pool stops being interesting. Just make sure that you like your judge if you take the job, and just make your decision on the basis of what you would find most rewarding.
Just checked back on this thread to see if there was more to this dicussion. Thanks for sharing, this is so helpful!
I can totally relate to your situation. I don’t have a permanent clerkship offer in hand, but I sometimes dream about being a perm. clerk for my wonderful federal appellate judge! Fantastic hours, great mentor, and six figure salary.
With that said, I understand your concerns about prestige, underachieving, etc. I do think there is an impression that a permanent clerkship is less prestigious. When I was clerking last year, I met a few perm. clerks and they fit into two categories: 1) much older people who were doing a perm. clerkship as a second career of sorts, after practicing for many years or: 2) women who took the clerkship to spend more time with their children. Both categories of clerks loved their jobs, provided that they liked their judges.
Couple of questions:
1) It sounds like you have only clerked at the federal appellate, but not federal district level. Having clerked at both levels, I will echo other comments that the two clerkships are totally different. Make sure you talk to former clerks of your judge to figure out how much writing is involved. I knew district court clerks who only wrote bench memos, never actual opinions. There is so much variance in district court clerkships.
2) Could you broach the idea of clerking for your judge for a 2 year period, and then re-evaluating? I know a few perm. clerks who took this approach, and one of them ended up leaving after the 2 years. But because the judge and she knew that the term could end after 2 years, there were no hard feelings. I’d feel much more comfortable signing up for a 2 or even 3 year term than a permanent gig, esp. given that you’ve never clerked at the district court level.
3) Even if a perm. clerkship is not as prestigious as some other jobs out there, it’s still potentially a fantastic opportunity to build a relationship with a well respected judge and mentor and a great chance to build on your research and writing skills. And again, if you have the chance to just do it for 2 or 3 years, you can always then evaluate at a later time whether it makes sense to stay for a longer period.
Good luck! Please keep us posted on what you decide to do.
I forgot to add that as I sit here redacting documents at my BigLaw job, your current position sounds very enticing, and it brings into light how prestige can be so arbitrary. I work at a “prestigious” law firm but what I do is anything but on most days. Clerks may not have the prestige but you work on fascinating cases. So it just depends on what you’re looking for at this stage in your career.
Thanks LB. The questions are very helpful (and will be more so when I learn the answers)
Wow, thank you for these thoughtful comments. You’ve helped me be more precise about my concerns and better frame my decision.
I do want to say that “prestige” is not a concern. I left a prestige-high Biglaw job voluntarily to take something that suited me better and carries no prestige. It turns out I was mistaken about it suiting me, but the prestige thing is not what drives me. (btw, not the same as prestige, but the federal court job would have higher pay and better benefits than what I’m doing now.)
The ambition / overachieving concern I raised is more about whether I would feel challenged by the work on a long-term basis. At least now, as with any litigation job, I constantly have to figure things out, learn new tricks, etc. So it feels like I’m still getting better and building a skill set. (Toward what end? No clue!) I don’t want to be bored or restless. So it’s not about what others think of how fancy my job is.
There is only one aspect of this that involves caring about others’ opinions (and my own self-image, frankly). I do have concerns about being a Woman Lawyer “opting out” when I could still be out there kicking a**.
Not sure what your day to day is like, but litigation gets repetitive, too – yes, each case is a challenge but you practice in one area usually and the work tends to overlap. When I clerked, every case was a new adventure. Sure, some you could do on auto pilot, but at a fed court you’re dealing with everything from criminal law to employment to constitutional matter to you name it. Plus, and this is esp. true at the district level, there are constant new issues with ediscovery, etc., so if not feeling static is your thing, this job doesn’t have to mean going on autopilot.
For what it’s worth, I think that as a general matter, the work we do here is less repetitive than appellate clerk work. Of course, as mentioned numerous times above, this can vary based on the judge, but we work on a wider variety of motions and have more day-to-day case management and problem-solving challenges. When I worked on appellate cases when my judge was sitting by designation, it felt like Law School, Part II. The district court – not so much. After two years, I am still learning a lot. And it is not boring.
Dumb question here: you cannot EVER leave?
oops this is for Undecided.
I think it is less a question of you can’t leave and more a question of your options for where you would go next become much more limited.
Haha… no, “permanent” is just to contrast from a “term” clerkship, which is for a set period of one or two years. Under the judicial rules, you can’t serve more than 4 years in any combination of “term” clerkships. Permanent clerks can stay for longer. There are fewer of those positions available.
But, Hmm is right that even though a permanent clerk can leave whenever she wants, she might not get anyone to hire her for a lawyer job at that point.
TJ: A while back we were discussing how stores vary so much in sizes, and a couple people brought up a website that tells you what size you will be in each store. Anyone have a link? I tried googling it to no avail.
The site is called “What Size Am I” but the URL is weird: http://sizes.darkgreener.com/
I think this is what you’re talking about:
http://sizes.darkgreener.com/
Thanks! That’s exactly what I was talking about.
A former colleague lists a Master’s degree that she does not have on her LinkedIn profile. Her undergraduate degree is from a small school with no national reputation. Her purported Master’s is from a well known, highly ranked school that is a leader in her area of study.
I am a recovering tattle-tale and often have trouble determining when I should step in and when I should mind my own business.
Is this something that I should address, or just leave alone? If I do decide to address, how would you recommend going about it?
Thanks in advance!
I’d leave it alone. It will come back to bite her eventually.
Leave it alone unless it somehow directly impacts you (she re-applies for a job at your company or she is supposed to do a major contract with your or something).
This sort of thing can only go badly for her in the age of background checks and google. But since its none of your beeswax, I’d just leave it the heck alone.
Unless this is affecting you or a client in some way, I say MYOB. If this person was a friend, I might say something like, “I didn’t realize you’d gotten your master’s from X.” It stinks that people lie about this stuff, but I’m firmly in the camp that believes it will all come around one day.
Not your business, but yikes, what goes through these people’s minds to make them think putting fake degrees on their LinkedIn is a good idea?
Leave it alone. But I just want to say, I’m totally there with you on the angst. I usually am invovled in our department’s hiring but wasn’t in a certain instance. He has proven to be completely inept. I googled out of curiousty and saw he listed “Masters, Program X” and I know he didn’t get the actual degree because it is a solid 2-3 year program if you take a full course load and he listed only one year after it. Oodles of grammar and tense mistakes throughout (even though he supposedly worked as a professional writer for years) as well as lots of gaps in employment. Makes me want to shake our VP and ask if any sort of real review was actually done at time of hire. I’m keeping it to myself though. At this point, he’ll be out on his own actions soon enough. And why tip him off on how to be sneakier next time?
How do you know she doesn’t have it?
Its just hard for me to believe people would straight up lie about that
It was frequently discussed when we worked together.
Could she have gotten it since then?
Oh and who exactly would you tell? Her current employer?
who would you even tell?
That is part of my question. I was thinking mainly the university from which she did not graduate. But it sounds like the consensus it to keep my big mouth shut, and I can see the wisdom in that.
I mean there is no point. What would the University do? Send a letter suggesting that lying is bad? they can’t punish her. I don’t even think they can tell her not to put it on linked in.
Personally, I agree with those who say MYOB.
Professionally, if you decide to do something about it, I agree that the place to start is with the Registrar of the school from which she erroneously claims to have graduated. I get these issues from our Registrar from time to time, and we follow up with the erroneous claimer very thoroughly. It is fraud.
omg myob srsly fo’ realz!!
Got it. Totes got it.
I worked in an office where someone questioned another colleague’s degree. It was embarrassing for the person in question and the person that raised the issue didn’t look so awesome either.
Any thoughts about being a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond? As a licensed social worker, I’m likely never going to make a ton of money, so that doesn’t really play in. I ask because I arrived in Miami Monday morning and immediately started to get calls about jobs in the area around the Ohio town where I grew up. I’d left the town immediately after coming of age and never looked back, til now. lol help!
Hey K! We missed you here. Welcome back!
:)
Ah, the answer would have been easy but then you threw in the geographic location of the pond…
intentionally so… NYC is super liberal, very diverse, but I had good reason to leave. Miami was the only option I considered because I had a place to go and people who invited me, but I don’t speak Spanish well and it hinders me in work and such. Small town Ohio is pretty much white people white people white people but there are equality movement things beginning to stir, I grew up there so I do have roots there, and it’s close to the college town I come from in the Capitol, which is more liberal. I guess, having spent my whole childhood raring to get out, it’s making me wonder if I’d be a moron for going back, even just to test the waters.
I do think the wonders of the internet have made it more palatable for people who are “different” to live in even more rural or homogenous places (not saying its all hunky-dory, but its gotten better).
You’ll always have us. :-)
This. I’m currently living in a rural area with my husband working my first job, and … if I didn’t have the internet? I’d go insane. Completely, 100% insane.
FWIW, I know you’re interested in working with the LGBT community and the first committed lesbian couple I ever knew as a kid lived in the Columbus area. I think Columbus has changed a lot, although I know that the smaller towns and rural areas can be more conservative, as they can in small towns and rural areas in any state.
I’m sure you’ll make a good decision for you. I was just thinking about you today and wondering if you were there yet!
Columbus is awesome, actually! I was shocked to find that out, being a “got the hell out of the Midwest for the coasts” girl myself, but I have a number of (GLBT) friends there and it’s a surprisingly awesome place. Cincy, on the other hand, not so much.
I know lots of LGBT there and the standard of living is pretty decent. If you’ve grown used to the NYC lifestyle there will certainly be things that you miss but… it isn’t the worst place. And, as others have said, you may be needed.
Winters in Columbus suck. Forget big fish / small fish. You really wanna give up that nice Miami sunshine & warmth (setting aside hurricanes for a moment) to go back of months of overcast cold?
Just sayin’.
K,
I will be everlastingly grateful to the counselor who chose to practice in a small conservative pond…and by doing so, was there for my daughter when she needed coaching through the coming out process. You just might be more needed in a small pond than in a big liberal city.
And on a more macro level, I don’t think it’s ever a mistake to test the waters we’re wondering about. We test them, right, rather than diving head first?
I adore every word of this for oh so many reasons…
Yay! K!! While I would much rather live in Miami than Ohio, I think there are plusses and minuses to both. As a social worker, there is real need for social services in rural areas like Ohio. Plus the cost of living is much, much lower — so the comparable “lifestyle” on a social worker’s salary is going to be higher. Plus small town living that can be stifling when growing up can actually be nice as an adult when you crave community closeness.
On the other hand, Miami is obviously a hundred times more cosmopolitan. And the housing market in FL crashed, so cost of living there is much lower than it used to be. But, I also think it may be a struggle to work in a lot of social services in Miami unless you learn Spanish (do you speak Spanish?)
Okay those are my thoughts.
Hey, K! I guess it depends on how you feel about the Ohio town. I’m an urban girl at heart, so regardless of the fabulousness of a job opportunity, I would not be happy in podunk. But you’re in transition in your life… moved to Miami to live with your cousins but no specific job prospects. Maybe working for a year or two in your hometown, getting your feet back under you in a low cost of living area (thus enabling a new canine companion when you’re ready…), and being the rising star of the region are not the worst things. Then when you’re ready to move to an urban area, if you ever want that again, you’ll have a chorus of recommendations. If you don’t hate your hometown, or haven’t really considered it since you were a kid, it couldn’t hurt to look into the opportunity!
your memory is freakishly awesome!
We corporettes care a lot about you K, even if we’ve not met in real life :).
True story. :-)
also you can learn spanish.. i lived in miami 3 years, it’s a great place for a while.
I was just wondering how your new adventures were going!
I don’t have a lot of advice for you, unfortunately. I did move back to my hometown after I finished law school, even though it was not at all my first choice, because I had a job opportunity there. It hasn’t been so bad – I think you can experience a place differently as an adult than you do as a child. Good luck!!
K-I know we discussed some of this in the FB group.
Maybe you are needed in Ohio? I came from podunk too. I was assumed to be a lesbian in high school and my brother is gay. So I know why LGBT and Allies try to avoid those areas of the country.
But there are LGBT people in podunk who might be looking for a LSW/therapist/counselor who is LGBT-friendly and can’t find one. My brother was sent to a therapist when he attempted suicide before coming out. We haven’t talked about it, but it took him another 6 years for him to come out to me. So part of me wonders if the therapist he saw was unequipped to counsel gay teens. I have a feeling that it’s hard to separate the LGBT or ally therapists from the Marcus Bachman-type therapists.
I think you’ll have a hard time in Miami without Spanish. It sounds like fate or a higher power is guiding you in a way you hadn’t expected.
So well said. Right out of undergrad I applied to a program that had jobs available throughout New England. I was sure I was going to get placed in some fabulous mountain town or seaside city. Instead, I got put right back into the city next to the town I grew up in. It was a combo social work/probation job and the city was rough to say the least. I begrudgingly moved back in with the parents and took the job. It gave me an amazing start and there was just such a tremendous need in that city. Sometimes it helps to go where the job will be the hardest. It looks great on a resume too. “Implemented a GLBT alliance in religiontown” looks much more impressive than “implemented a GLBT alliance in San Francisco!”
This this this
Hi!
So glad to see that you’re back.
Not saying that you should go back to that part of Ohio, but any particular reasons why you wouldn’t go back? How has that part of Ohio changed (if at all)? Maybe things are better and it would be more appealing now…. I would say, weigh those jobs and whatever job offers come up in Miami against each other objectively first and then layer in all of the old memories and other intangibles. It’s worth at least a first-pass look, I think.
Oh, my…I’m getting tears in my eyes reading about your choices, but that’s because years ago I fell in love with the flat open landscape of East Central Illinois (where I went to grad school & met my DH) and I still miss the scenery even after living on the East Coast for 20+ years.
Of course, you have to make your own choices: to “go home again,” this time as an independent adult; to go home on a temporary basis to see how it goes; or to stay in Miami (and maybe learn Spanish?). I don’t see anything here as irrevocable. To echo SF Bay Associate and January, it can’t hurt to try or at least to consider returning to Ohio. Unless you parted on bad terms or have ongoing grief with people still living in your town (family? friends or enemies from high school)? For the sake of simplicity and joy I hope you don’t have to consider this factor!
Life in a small town can be good. As others have said here, small towns have lower real estate prices and you can find a community of interesting people doing interesting things*. There are also real benefits to living with less-congested roads and breathing less polluted air.
(*Two recent examples: NY Times article “They made Main Street Their Own: How Four Women Revived a Derelict Mississippi Town,” NY Times, March 7, 2012, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/garden/how-four-women-revived-a-derelict-mississippi-town.html?pagewanted=all and the Public Radio International story on two gay guys, one an Algerian-born Muslim, who run break down stereotypes, one person at a time, with their Algerian American Restaurant in Elkader, Iowa: http://www.pri.org/stories/politics-society/religion/elkader-an-iowa-town-named-after-an-algerian-muslim-jihadist-7765.html)
However the flip side of small/smaller-town Midwestern life shouldn’t be ignored. It can be hard if you are outside the demographic majority due to your religion, race, ethnicity, being partnered or unpartnered, or being a member of the LGBT community. It can ALSO be hard if you’re not able or willing to work for the Biggest Employer In Town (in our case, I was a faculty/staff spouse in a college town and not well suited for the available tenure-track or higher-powered staff positions.)
Not to say that all people are or will be horrible and hateful–but it gets tiresome to always feel Demographically Different or The First ____ Person That Everybody Else Has Ever Met or even just Too Far Away From Others Like Oneself.
DH and I were happy in our small town for the short term, but we didn’t see ourselves as staying forever. Within 2 years we moved east (to city where DH was born & raised) both for family reasons and in order to join a larger Jewish community. FWIW I don’t regret my small town years and remain a proud Midwesterner.
Two final considerations: First, If your podunk town is near a big city (e.g. 2 hours driving time) you might be able to work this into your life for socializing, shopping, culture ,etc. (Jews in our town would drive to Chicago or St. Louis to buy kosher meat. This may have changed in the last 20 years when a big-city grocery chain moved to town.) Second, I suspect that the Internet has changed life in small towns, but I can’t comment from experience b/c we were married in the Stone Age before life online!
Good luck with this. I’ll go back to my lurking now, but will be wishing you well as you build your new life after NYC.
P.S. No offense meant by using adjective “podunk” in my second-to-last paragraph! I assumed it was OK b/c others had already used the same word, but I should have followed my original instinct to say “small town” instead.
Ditto. I thought about that too when writing my response.
As someone who grew up in a big coastal city and moved to a small city in the Midwest, I agree that it gets tiresome to be demographically different. Although I do not stand out physically, as a single 32-year old woman I am on a different track, as most of my peers are engaged, newlyweds, or are married with young children. So, if you are single and on the younger side, it should be a little easier. Like the others said, part of it is self-knowledge.
I just moved from a larger city back to the very small and geographically isolated town I left 20+ years ago. It’s been OK so far. I think I need to give it 6 months before judging definitively. I left a stable and secure job to come here. The factors I considered were career prospects (my skills are in demand here but were not in the city), career development (better chances of advancement here), cost of living (MUCH lower here) and lifestyle. RE lifestyle, I find that as I get older I no longer crave the things a city offers. I suppose I am becoming more of a homebody. You will have to evaluate how important a city lifestyle is for you. Also, in small towns every event is a big deal. You might not glance twice at a concert ad for [insert name of over-the-hill musician/band here], but if they play in your small town and everyone is going so will you! I enjoy that sense of community but it doesn’t work for all. And sports are a big deal, even for people who are not particularly sporty.
I agree with the poster who said that the internet changes the isolation of small towns. Living here now is a completely different experience. Much less cultural deprivation when you can access music, foreign films, clothes etc online. Have you spoken to any former classmates/friends who are still in the area? Know of anyone who has returned to the area? In my case, dozens of people I knew who moved to larger centres in their 20s were returning home. That was also a factor for me. How bad could it be if others were returning and staying put?
Best of luck with your decision.
thanks so so much… I hadn’t even considered how having the internet would change my experience living there until now!
Did I really just read an article about criticisms of Jennifer Lawrence as not thin enough to play Katniss in the Hunger Games? Really?
http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/28/10904124-some-hunger-games-critics-say-jennifer-lawrence-was-too-big-to-play-katniss
Yes, yes you did. I believe the theory is that she’s supposed to be “starving” in the book and Jennifer Lawrence looks too well fed. But Katniss keeps her family fed by hunting…she couldn’t be too thin, otherwise she wouldn’t be able to draw a bow!
Rant over.
I thought the entire cast looked too well-fed. It’s the *Hunger* Games, and the way that the brutal Capitol keeps the Districts in control is that it starves them while the Capitol throws massive parties which offer a vomit-inducing drink so you can go enjoy the feast AGAIN. Of course, you’re not going to get a bunch of actors to pull a Bale in the Machinist, and I wouldn’t want them to suffer like that for a movie. But the way to handle it then would be to have a lot more discussion and demonstration about how starving the people are. Why Prim’s name was entered in once for the Reaping, and Gale’s forty-two times because his family needs the tesserae, or why Rue was hungry even though she came from agrarian District 11, etc. Instead we get a couple shots of a run-down town where no one actually looks hungry before the Reaping, and no mention of tesserae. Bah.
I do feel like they are going to have to explain more thoroughly (probably during the “tour” in the second movie) about how brutal the empire is in the districts. For this movie, they seemed mostly focused on just getting to the games.
Agreed. Half of Hollywood looks totally emaciated, for no reason. Where are all those yucky protruding clavicles and bony arms when a part actually calls for it?
Anyway, I agree with SFBA that hunger is a huge plot point (the title’s a good clue!) that has to figure prominently somehow, if not necessarily through starving the actors.
i gots the protruding clavicles, is not yucky.
haters.
I think that the easy way to solve this would have been to actually show Katniss and Peeta enjoying the food on the train on the way to the capital. They cut all of that out! Even in the on-stage interview, doesn’t Katniss mention the stew [in the book]? Same problem with the flashback to Peeta throwing Katniss the burnt bread — I don’t think the significance came through there because I don’t think that non-book-readers would understand that Katniss was *starving*. They could have made the movie about HUNGER without having super-thin actors.
Those aren’t as bad as the comments people were making about how once they saw that Rue was African-American they were no longer sad about what happens to her.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-27/entertainment/31243180_1_katniss-rue-characters
Well, those people are idiots with no reading comprehension skills. So, I just ignore them. ;-P
ha, I actually had no reading comprehension skills and just imagined her looking like Prim, since that’s who Katniss kept comparing her to. I did go back and re-read the book immediately after watching the movie (because I wasn’t entirely pleased with the adaptation and wanted to overwrite it in my brain), and sure enough, Rue has satin-y dark skin. The Rue actress was great, anyway. She was my favorite part of the movie.
As for Jennifer Lawrence, she looked close enough to how I pictured Katniss when she was by herself or with Gale, although they were both more wiry in my imagination… I just thought it was really unfortunate that Peeta was so small-looking by comparison. The proportions of that couple are off, and if I were to switch out one of them, it would definitely be Peeta.
*whom (my bad grammar goes with my reading comprehension skills)
Also, Jennifer Lawrence is on fire hot. The little lesbian inside of me is totally in love with her. ;-) (Oversharing? Meh, who cares.)
Isn’t this universal? I didn’t know I had a little lesbian inside of me until the Oscars last year and her red dress. Total girl crush now.
:-) She really loves Jennifer Lawrence a lot a lot. I’m cool with that, I NEVER let her kiss girls. (Shout out to anyone who gets the friend’s reference. haha)
This article made me so mad. Frankly, I was delighted to see a mainline movie star appear in a film looking like she actually eats occasionally (in real life anyway). The more important question is why every other actress in every other movie looks like she is living in Panem.
I read an interesting counterpoint to that observation: that hiring someone who looks emaciated might set a bad body image role model for the teen girls (& boys) who are ostensibly the target audience.
Anyway, I think Jennifer Lawrence IS thin.
It’s true – she is thin. She has a round face which a lot of people take for fat.
Hi. I know lately I am the gal with a zillion questions, but here is another one. Has anyone ever hired a summer nanny through Craigslist? What would you put in the add? How did it work out? Any other advice? Thanks to all who respond.
I was a summer nanny during college. They got me through contacting my sorority. I don’t know how other people did it, but it worked out well for us.
My sister is a sitter through SitterCity. Have you checked that site out?
No. I will check it out.
have also heard care.com is good
Try care.com
I am very pleased with my experience with the site. You can check out other ads to get ideas. I’d be very specific in terms of hours and dates needed and whether you will have leeway to offer vacation or days off. Also if the nanny will need to transport the children, what your expectations are – size of car, distances, driving record.
My biggest problem with summer nannies has been that they need to start back to college or grad school often 2-3 weeks before my children’s school begins. Make sure you have a commitment through the dates you need.
Thanks all!
I had a colleague make a little flier and send it to professional women she knew (through personal email). I think she probably got much better recommendations through word of mouth. That, and many of us are professors, so we know lots of responsible young people looking for nanny jobs between semesters. Since my friend is the director in a state agency, she also offered professional mentoring to the nanny – a nice trade off that served to attract a certain type of applicant.
I answered a craigslist ad to be a summer nanny shortly after college. I have to say I was awesome.
I figured I should post here just in case you don’t see on this morning’s thread.
I only went about 6 to 10 times, 2 times a week. One day she would put needles along my sinus track (sounds weird, but it doesn’t hurt or anything), this was to clear my sinus path. It worked immediately. After the 1st session my sense of smell was AMAZING. They got clearer each time. The other day she would put needles in my back, this was to cure the allergies. It also worked very quickly and within a few weeks I was sneezing much less.
I went over 5 years ago, and my allergies have gotten a little bit worse but not much. I would say you should definitely see results within 2-4 weeks.
Good luck if you decide to try it.
Hello, you are AWESOME for reposting this, bc I actually didn’t see it on the other thread. And now I’m off to googling acupuncturists in NYC (recs are most welcome!). Thank you.
Oh and thank you to everyone else who responded. I really appreciate it.
If you find one, let me know!
Maryanne Travaglione. 212 675 9355.
Disclaimer: no idea about allergies, but she is generally very good and I know several people who swear by her. Though not cheap – she charges around $100/visit.
tytytytytytytytyty!
where is her office?
12 W 27th st. 9th fl.
If you feel like trekking out to Stony Brook (on long island) I went to Dr. Liu 631-689-6221
Hi Ladies,
I am a regular reader of this blog, and am hoping to get some advice from all of you high-achieving, successful women. Basically, I’m really frustrated with how I am living my life. My ideal life: wake up at 7, make my lunch, go running, back by 8:00, spend an hour getting ready/making breakfast, and then in the office by 9:30. My ideal life would also involve a 20-minute walk in the sunshine to get me some vitamin D, and reading a good book before bed.
You may just be asking too much of yourself. Maybe work the walk into your lunch hour while the weather is nice, or read your book during lunch outside to enjoy the weather. Or at night skip TV and read instead.
Hmm. My ideal life sounds a lot like that, too (even though it doesn’t look much like that in practice). You don’t say what’s different about your actual life, so it’s a little hard to advise you. Could you make your lunch before bed? Watch less TV? Do you need a shorter commute?
sigh. i would love that life and aim to achieve it this spring/summer!! DH and I started waking up at 6am and going for a run by the water last fall (why not last summer or spring? i duno) and fell in love with the routine. to pull it off (on a similar schedule as you) we started waking up at 6am. it was flawless. we then lapsed over the winter (and i never make it to the gym).
I think you’ve gotta start with the smaller things — for example, i make lunch for both of us everyday. even if it means i’m grilling chicken breasts at 11pm. I also spend an hour getting ready and having a leisurely breakfast with DH every morning. I aim to wake up at 7, but don’t always manage it (but I don’t let the other stuff lose out even if I’m running late). I also started subscribing to magazines I love (New Yorker, National Geographic) as a baby step toward reading books for fun again. I devour those magazines so fast DH hides them from me when the mail comes in because he wants to keep up!
I’ve got no advice on the 20 minute walk in sunshine bit — I always feel chained to my desk and eat in front of it. i never get out of work while its day out.
Second/third the make lunch before bed suggestion. As for a 20-minute walk, I prefer to take a break in the afternoon, when the end is nearer in sight, so I used to eat lunch at my computer and then take a walk later on in the day (need to get back in this habit). I do better when I’m walking towards a goal, so I might run out to buy stamps, or buy a birthday card, or get a coffee from the shop that’s several blocks away, rather than the closest one. And it’s ok to make changes slowly. Any small step in the direction you want to go in is still a step in the right direction (or so I keep telling myself).
Law school-related TJ–do you ‘rette lawyers think taking Trusts and Estates is actually worth it? I need to fill up some hours next semester, and T&E is taught by one of the most loved profs at my school. But the problem: I HATED property–the subject material, the prof (not the same as the T&E guy), the book, all the supplements, everything. Worst grade of my life and forcing myself to go every day was absolute torture. Is this something I can learn from BarBri or is it worth it for me to take a class I’m almost certain I will hate? (If it helps, I’m on the crim law track–very excited to be working with a prosecutor’s office for my 2L summer, worked with a state prosecutor last summer, planning on trying to go for clerkship –> prosecution track at this point.)
For whatever it’s worth, I never took T&E and found that it was a fairly easy one to learn in Barbri (although I haven’t found out whether I passed yet or not, so take that with a grain of salt).
I did not like property at ALL. I hated the course, the professor was the most annoying professor I had in 7 years of college/law, etc… I LOVED T&E.
And I was also on the crim law track. I took almost all crim law classes, interned for a prosecutor’s office for a year, thought I was going to get an offer there, got one in the child support unit instead (all civil), and even after turning down that job, was 100% convinced I was going to clerk/prosecute. All of the “job offers” I got after that were for unpaid positions. Have now been doing employment law for 3+ years and enjoy it.
I actually figured that if I wasn’t prosecuting, I would go into T&E after taking that class. And it sounds similar, taught by the most favoritest professor in the school (for good reason!) etc…
Also, it’s something that is somewhat difficult to learn from BarBri just because it’s such a finicky area of law. On the other hand, it’s one of those subjects that is not tested very often. Still, in my two bar exams, I had two T&E questions combo’d with other subjects.
I miss T&E, I really found it easy and enjoyable.
Agreed.
I hated property, hated the professor, and did poorly in the class despite my best efforts. I did not take T&E in school. BarBri taught me everything I needed for the CA bar. That said, the right professor can make any class great, almost regardless of subject matter. My DH also hated property, but did take T&E with a popular professor. It ended up being one of his favorite classes. If it fits in your schedule, you need the credits, and the professor is truly a great teacher, take T&E. Otherwise, don’t.
If the prof is really that great (and loved for being kind/accessible/brilliant–I never went for the profs that get a following because they’re brilliant in the snarky to students way), then I might consider it if there is nothing else that appeals to you. If you aren’t interested in any other courses, you could also consider TAing or being a research assistant to help you get to know a prof a bit better.
I didn’t take a lot of the bar exam topics in law school and passed the bar exam. The main thing that consoled me while I was teaching myself certain topics for the bar (I did self-study, not BarBri) was that I didn’t spend an entire semester dealing with the subject.
I didn’t think that there was that much overlap between the two subjects (except for the rule against perpetuities), and I thought it was helpful to have that information before BarBri. There is usually an essay dedicated to T&E (at least in NY).
I hated Property so much and it was my worst grade. I took T&E my last semester and loved it. I do not know why because it would seem like it is the same (and I had the exact same conversation with myself before signing up). The professor makes all the difference. I do not work in T&E at all now. However, I am quite comfortable volunteering at wills clinics in the area and have done so almost monthly since I passed the bar.
You could learn it in Bar/Bri though, for sure. I would not have known that I would like it though by skimming an outline. The last semester is torture no matter what you do anyway.
I think I’m scared off by the class description–sounds like a ton of property stuff. Frankly I’m just gunshy because I hated property so much, in large part because I could not figure out how in the world I was going make easements relate to crim law. I kind of have the same problem with T&E. My mom is the executor for a family friend’s estate and watching her wrestle with this stuff sounds miserable.
But it does fit my schedule and I need the hours. Uh oh. haha. Thanks for the advice ladies!
I don’t think you should worry about how to make easements relate to criminal law (though as a criminal defense lawyer, it is surprising the seemingly unrelated issues that pop up in my cases, haha!) But rather–you need to graduate law school and pass the bar to eventually practice criminal law, and if taking T&E will help you get there, then that is why it becomes important or necessary to you.
That said, I loved Property so much I took Property II, T&E, and real estate transactions, but ended up practicing appellate criminal law and loving it!
If I could do it over, I’d skip T&E. It was useless, irrelevant to my practice, and there was nothing on the bar exam I couldn’t have learned in BarBri.
Also hated property. T&E made me want to write wills and trusts for people for the rest of my life. It was more like reading soap operas and learning about all the ways people tried to scr*w each other over and then either succeeded or failed. No blackacre/whiteacre/greenacre/blueacre.
I agree totally! T&E was so…dramatic. The cases were fascinating and it was one of the few classes where I read every assignment and every case thoroughly rather than hornbooks like I did for Civ Pro or Property.
I mean this very seriously (sorry, I’m about to go all Ellen on you): BarBri can teach you EVERYTHING for ALL SUBJECTS (or at least enough to pass). You might have a teeny advantage by taking a subject in law school, but not enough to take a class that you seem to think that you’ll hate. I am reasonably confident that I could have taken BarBri right out of undergrad and passed the bar.
That said, my experience was that the rock star profs could make the most terrible subjects interesting (and vice versa, unfortunately). So while I don’t think you need to take it for the bar, I think you should take it in order to take the most loved prof.
I loved both Property and T&E and found them to be very different. Really the only overlap is the Rule Against Perpetutities and that was a minor part of T&E because it has been repealed in so many jurisdictions. If you like the professor and need the hours, why not? Can you drop it and substitute another class if you don’t like it after the first week or so?
I thought of dropping, but there are not a whole lot of choices left over right now that fit with the classes I already want and that would get me to the right number of hours. It’s either take a four-hour class (and I’ve taken the other options) or take 2 two-hour credits. Which would put me at six classes. (I’d live, but still)
I hated property too, and loved T+E. Now I am a T+E lawyer. :) Don’t knock it, it’s v interesting.
T&E was one of my favorite classes in law school — anyone remember that old case where the guy gave his children a gasoline-soaked fish wrapped in newspaper? Still cracks me up. Anyway, you can definitely learn it in bar review, but if you’re the least bit interested in wills or (the most interesting part, to me, anyway) trust formation, you should take the class.
Some of the most useful classes I either took in law school or had to learn from Barbri were tax (law school), real estate transactions (law school), community property (Barbri) and Trusts, Wills & Estates (law school credit/non). I was an IP litigator for 10 years before going in house, so I never used any of these subjects in my practice. However, I have used all of them, both for good reasons and sad ones, in my personal life.
Random question — what type of benefits does a district court clerk (term clerk, not permanent like the poster above) typically receive? I know what the pay is, but I haven’t been able to find what type of benefits are offered. I’m thinking of clerking next year and am just curious. Apologies if this is available on some federal website somewhere, but I haven’t been able to find it.
I think you get your pick of all of the insurance policies available to fed. employees…(i.e., to pick between usps benefits, doj benefits, etc.) I’ve heard that the USPS has really sick (no pun) health insurance benefits.
This. You are a federal employee, you get federal benefits. Health, vision, life, you name it.
I clerked a few years ago, so things may have changed, but you generally get all the regular federal benefits with a few exceptions. I had my pick of health plans, dental etc. There were a few small things I wasn’t eligible for, like some small monthly transit subsidy, etc. Also, generally things like sick leave and vacation are worked out at the discretion of the judge, though there may have been a formal policy I was unaware of.
Clerking is a pretty great gig, if you end up with a good judge. I worked reasonably hard, but loved it. Such interesting, impactcful work.
Many federal judges will not give you vacation days, even if you’re technically authorized for them. I clerked for two judges who strongly believed that you take your vacation AFTER your clerkship, not during your clerkship. Made it difficult to do things like get across the country to see family for the holidays!
I interviewed someone today for a legal position. She did not wear a jacket. Just a blouse and slacks. Soooo can I send her the corporette link in my rejection letter?
Substantively those who are interviewing ask about pointers. I want to work with someone who I think will not cry.That being said if you have a high voice, sit with good posture and give good eye contact.
She was nice but she answered like I want my clients to answer in a deposition, short, yes/no answers that divulge nothing else but the least amount of information you can give and still answer the question. My colleague asked what she does in her spare time and she said “hang out”. You do not need to have a ton of personality but if she had some, I probably could have got past the fact she did not even wear a suit and looked at her qualifications. (Okay I did, and they were sub-par). While we are on the topic, if your only hobby is reading, say what you like to read. When I got out of law school I too had to rediscover my interests because they were lost for 4 years. But really? Hanging out? Reading? Are you ten?
I asked why she wanted to be a lawyer and she told me she just always had. I know me too. I like to hang out and I always wanted to be a lawyer. But you have to have better answers than that. I would have even taken “I like problem solving but I want to work with people” over I have always wanted to since 5th grade.
I feel bad for this girl because she has law firm experience and is a truly nice person who volunteers her time for great causes like the Ronald McDonald House. But my goodness. This interview was scheduled 2 weeks ago. The partners who interviewed her all have bios of their interests on the website. I am not saying lie about your interests but if you do not do your homework, I think you do not care.
Okay rant over. Do better ladies.
That is the opposite of the interview I did this morning. Suit, nice jewelry (big, bulky “huggie” earring–Kat would have loved them!), had a well-rehearsed answer to the question about the gap in her resume, mentioned an initiative we have on our website (yay! she read the website), and had a list of prepared questions (including a question about a typical day where we could discuss the expectation of face-time for someone at her level).
Just curious – can you share what, in your opinion, is a good answer to explaing a gap in a resume? Assuming said gap is because you were laid off and had to relocate for your husband’s job…. is there a good answer to that??
saw this mean girl post the first time, no need to keep reposting it.
I don’t think there’s anything mean about this post. It’s useful to hear about the mistakes others make in interviews so we can avoid making them ourselves.
Okay…I don’t think she’s being a mean girl here. She’s looking for advice on how to give (frankly much needed) constructive criticism to an applicant (if possible). Perhaps she’s being blunt, but frankly, this woman is doing herself NO favors if she’s showing up to an interview not in a suit and answering questions in this manner.
Shrug — I think the OP has actually good intent here.
Or at least, she did in her first post.
No shes not asking for any advice. She is “ranting” about a young woman. There’s no good intent its just here is a list of bad things someone did today.
Yeah — I went back and re-read the morning post. Someone else recommended giving constructive criticism through a recruiter or someone. Which I actually think would be great if possible, I sometimes wish I COULD get some feedback from interviewers.
But that’s neither here nor there.
Agree with Kiley. Also, ranting and then extrapolating to everyone else in the world. I mean, sometimes you interview crappy people. Do you have to lament about it online every time, and not just once, but twice?
also thought it was mean girl.
“Oh my God, I love your bracelet! Where did you get it?”
Well, with all the specifics in your post, I guess we can just hope (or not hope? I’m on the fence) that she reads corporette and decides to do better.
If you’re reading this, shy girl with a good heart, sub-par qualifications, and a blazer you left on the train, keep your chin up. We all need practice, and maybe you didn’t want this job as much as it seems not to want you. And, at least you stand by your sub-par qualifications instead of making them up (see supra). And maybe your goldfish died this morning. Or maybe you were overwhelmed. Or maybe all you could think about was the fact that you left your jacket at home/on the train/at Starbucks and were totally distracted. Or maybe you really just like to hang out and read, but you’re a really good employee (if not the most interesting one). You’ll find a job that fits you, but, yes, try to do better next time. Bring some pizzazz and a second layer to the next interview, even if you never use either of them again.
I do think its really good advice to share more about yourself in interviews and really try to think about how to make yourself stand out. Because you can assume an interviewer is asking everyone “what are your hobbies” and if you give a really bland answer, you’re just going to blend into the background. So you have to try to give an answer that explicates a little more AND simultaneously makes yourself stand out. Like — “oh, I love to read. I just finished reading the XXX series and now I’m totally into reading historical fiction.” or something like that.
Also, I do think if there is something glaring like you forgot your suit jacket on the train, rather than letting your interviewer think that you don’t know to wear a suit, I’d say “oh, I forgot my suit jacket on the train. What a morning its been! hahah!” Try to keep it light, but also explain it. Otherwise you leave them with the wrong impression entirely.
YES. I do a lot of interviews and I would rather an applicant who was just a little too chatty than one of the one-word answer types. I think enthusiasm for the position and work goes a long way and just does not come across with some people (men and women) because they do not open up enough and engage.
it is possible… i was with an executive at a hearing in our state capitol recently who forgot her blazer and had only a cami on, so had to wear her overcoat:) long morning with kids, household maintenance shutdown, etc.- we had a good laugh
I just showed this whole thread to my boyfriend, who is a 1L, because he simply could not understand why he’d need to wear a suit to an interview. It got the point across. Interviewers be judgin’!
I think shy girl should also be very happy she’s not going to work with anon-na-na. Doesn’t seem anon-na-na has the friendliest personality in the world. Also, I think if shy girl is working, going to school and volunteering, then hanging out and reading might be all she really wants to do in her spare time.
I understand anon-na-na is trying to give constructive criticism, but this is a terrible attempt. I sincerely hope you are a nicer person IRL, because you come off as a bully. I get your point about shy girl not being well prepared, but this isn’t constructive at all. “Are you ten?”
General thoughts on this kinda situation:
-I’ve interviewed people.
-It sucked to tell them that we’re not hiring them.
-It also wasn’t so hard to offer unsolicited feedback on their interview via phone.
Now, I haven’t called up interviewees just to talk to them about their interview skills but if someone called, I would take the time to talk to them about the interview. They cared enough to call. And it’s generally appreciated on their end. So OP, I think you have a chance to generally tell your lady how to improve for her future, if she calls. And TCFKAG, you can totally call under the pretext of following up/thanking them and ask for tips for the future. Yeah, some people can’t stand phone calls because of precious billable hours (eyeroll) but there will be someone out there who will genuinely try to respond.
I’ve never been asked for feedback on why someone did not get the job, although I think I’d be forthcoming, if asked. Sometimes it’s just about fit, and that’s hard, or just that they lost out to a slightly better candidate. But so often, it’s something like what happened this week. A young woman did a really impressive phone interview, but when we went to check her references to decide if we should move her to the next level, it turned out she hadn’t asked them to be references and they were not appropriate references.
I ask literally every single time I’m turned down for a job & either never hear back or get a canned response. It is kind of frustrating. If I have a tick or some other random thing wrong with what I’m doing, it would be great to know so that I can fix it…. but I’m guessing lawyers are more prone to be worried about putting their foot in their foot in the mouth & getting in trouble in some way.
That said, I feel like I’ve been the girl you described. Interviewing is stressful yo. Especially when you are introverted and shy.
You know, a lot of this just sounds to me like introversion. She needs more practice interviewing, sure, but so did most of us at some point.
I did not read the first post of this, so sorry if I repeat anything that was already posted. I think interviewing is a two-way street. This isn’t a great economy, but the employer still has to make some effort to sell itself to the potential employee. If she volunteers for great causes, why on earth don’t you ask about them? I’ve been in several interviews where all the questions were just so generic that it seemed to me that the interviewer hadn’t even bothered to take the time to read my resume or any other supporting documentation. You can bet that in those interviews, I probably gave a lot of boring, one word answers. If someone says “I like to read” you can easily ask something like “What book have you read lately that you’d recommend to others?”
Agree that interviewing is a two way street. I had some terrible interviews with people who seemed like they couldn’t give a sh*t or were bored or were just awkward. The worst one was with a panel of three who each gave me a dead fish handshake and then didn’t say anything at all for three minutes. But, that said, I think as the person trying to get the job, it’s on me to try to overcome that (or to be really happy that I did not get that job!)
All that said, I think the OP was trying to be helpful. Maybe she could have been nicer about saying it, but I actually agree with all the points made. I had an interview recently and I did not get this job. I didn’t really know if I wanted the job, so it’s okay, but looking back on it, I am pretty sure it’s because I didn’t communicate my enthusiasm for the position and I didn’t have any real hobbies. Seriously. The interviewer asked me what sports I liked and I said none. He asked me what I liked to do and I said “I like to cook and I like to read.” And then I mumbled about how soccer was okay or some nonsence. I did wear a jacket, but I honestly wouldn’t have hired me either and I know that I how totally awesome I actually am.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that while it might seem that the OP posted that long comment to just rant and maybe shame the interviewee, I think of it more as a PSA. And even awesome folks like me who generally interview pretty well sometimes need to remember that coming off as interesting and enthusiastic is often as important as being qualified for the position at hand.
Oh god, the worst interviewER I’ve ever had (and let me tell you, I’ve had some doozies) literally asked nothing but “interview” type interview questions. I don’t even think he asked me how my day was going or why I went to law school, no “warm up” type questions whatsoever. And this was a screening interview for a summer associateship — so I know this was SOP for the firm since lots of my other friends interviewed there. He was just a doosh ala Ellen. (He also was condescending and seemed uninterested in my answers.)
One of the questions was “What was the worst advice you ever received” and I really wanted to say “to come to this interview”. Gah.
I had once who asked me questions A through M, let’s say, and then again asked me questions A and B. Not sure if she was trying to psych me out (seeing if I would answer consistently) or was just zoned out, not really caring or listening. (FWIW, I got a summer offer from that place.)
Similar to Marigold, I had a question from one interviewer (panel of 4-5) ask about something on my resume, then about 5 minutes later, one of the other interviewers asked the SAME question. She asked it somewhat confrontationally, too–“I see this on your resume, why don’t you talk about it”–as if implying that it was made up or something.
Just a quick thought: maybe she has social anxiety? or Asperger’s syndrome (AS)? Some people are really smart cognitively but also deficient in the usual social niceties because they’re just not wired that way. The catch-22 (or chicken-and-egg) aspect of this is that the same people may not think to get help in this area precisely because they lack social awareness, and/or because they grew up in the years before Asperger’s was being diagnosed or treated or because their parents didn’t or couldn’t address the issue.
As to why on earth I’m posting about AS in reply to a comment about a job interview…? I read a lot of online advice columns, online live chats, and just plain comments on online articles, and I got tired of reading all the surprised reactions of people who never considered this explanation for why their coworkers, neighbors, distant cousins, etc. etc. don’t meet the usual expectations of being socially adept. So now I’m becoming a pushy AS awareness advocate. ;-)
Full disclosure: My child has AS. I had never heard of it before our child’s diagnosis.
And now, I promise, I’m going offline. :-)
Have a good evening, everybody. Thanks for making Corporette so interesting to read. I learn a lot here.
well aware of AS- and there are jobs they are ideal for (my company: full of brilliant engineers who are extremely socially awkward)- and jobs not so much (people-facing). it’s about fit- excusing/overlooking it isn’t necessary, just like someone shouldn’t hire me to do something technical I wouldn’t be proficient at. But I can deal with people well. make sense?
I am a very experienced lawyer with a husband and two school aged kids. I can honestly say I have no hobby and never have had one. I don’t watch t.v., I don’t watch or participate in sports, I rarely go to movies or out to eat, and in my spare time, I usually do introverted intellectual activities like the NYT cross word puzzle, read random stuff, “work out,” and do routine stuff with or for my kids and family, and I am perfectly happy this way. I did grow up doing lots of “fabulous” sports, but they are not really of particular interest to me now. What does this say about my qualifications to a potential employer? I do see lots of websites where every attorney in the firm is off doing some fabulous thing in their spare time. Must we all be fabulous all of the time?
Okay…I don’t know why I’m all over this thread. But you do have hobbies! You do the NY Times crossword puzzle, which I find extremely impressive. I’d just talk about that — but you know, just say more than one sentence. Like, my goal every week is to finish Sunday by myself! I’ve made it x times!! Or something like that. Something that reveals a little something extra about you.
I don’t think an interviewer needs to look into your soul, they’re just trying to get a sense of who you are. And that’s who you are. :-)
O.k. I see your point, but I’d feel kind of braggy talking about it. I often do finish it by myself, in one week, in pen, but I don’t like to talk to others about that.
If there is ever a time to brag about yourself, its in a job interview. :-)
I agree! I think that was my problem in the interview I had above. If I had said, “I love to cook! Ever since I came back from India, I have been trying to recreate some of the amazing spicy dishes I ate in Rajasthan and it’s been tremendous fun to experimenting out all the different spices and trying out new cooking techniques.” But I said, “oh, I don’t know, I like to cook?”
You should totally brag about your crosswording skills!
Oh, and your firm bio could totally say that “in her spare time, Anon relishes finishing the Sunday New York Times puzzle … in pen” :)
I don’t think this is mean girl at all, anon-na-na-na is trying to be helpful. Maybe the girl from the interview won’t see this, but maybe another future corporette will and learn from it.
I had a similar experience the other day when I was interviewing for a position. Another interviewee in the waiting room looked miserable and dejected. She was staring at the floor and looked like her dog just died (maybe it did and I am just being a mean girl). I literally wanted to hug her she looked so sad and down and tell her to look confident even if she didn’t feel it. She was dressed appropriately, but her demeanor gave off the impression that she would not be the right fit. I actually felt bad looking happy and confident, like I was making her feel less confident.
I have been the interviewer many times and I always prefer the candidates who can hold a conversation over the ones who look good on paper. Most jobs require interacting with co-workers and clients, as well as fitting in with the office culture. Personality can be just as important as experience.
I think the most important thing to remember is the interviewer obviously found something they like about you, or you wouldn’t be there for the interview. All you have to do is show the interviewer they were right you are the perfect candidate.
My sister is like this. She is a very smart, sweet and easy-going 30-year-old woman. She went to good schools but got middling grades. She is introverted and shy. Her hobby is role-playing computer games. She gives one-word answers to conversational questions from me, a person she has known her whole life. Her performance with strangers is markedly worse. She does not dress particularly well since she is short and overweight and nice clothes are impossible to find. She has probably completely bombed every single interview she has ever had. She got her current job through an internship that turned into full-time work, and got the internship because one of my friends knows her and recommended her personally. But every employer she has ever had has loved her to death, because she is smart, hard-working, and perceptive.
I had a 3.5 hour interview last week and one of the interviewers asked me “if I could be a superhero, who would I be?” I said “Well, Superman because he can fly or Wonder Woman but her outfits are too risque”. Then I was asked, “well, why flying?” And I said because when I was little, I always used to watch “The Greatest American Hero” with my dad every week and I thought Connie Selleca was cool for having a VW Bug. GAH! Interviewer seemed ok with it and he remembered the tv show. WHATEVER. If that’s the worst thing I said in a 3.5 hr interview, I’m pretty ok with that.
Apologies if this news has already been posted, but…
Club Monaco now has online shopping! http://www.clubmonaco.com
finally. welcome to 2001, club monaco.
Can I put money in a 529 for my HUSBAND (a teacher, who has to take master’s classes as part of continued professional development?) Can I still get the tax benefit?
If you see this, yes and yes.
Hi Ladies,
I am a regular reader of this blog, and am hoping to get some advice from all of you high-achieving, successful women. Basically, I’m really frustrated with how I am living my life. My ideal life: wake up at 7, make my lunch, go running, back by 8:00, spend an hour getting ready/making breakfast, and then in the office by 9:30. My ideal life would also involve a 20-minute walk in the sunshine to get me some vitamin D, reading a good book for a few minutes before bed and NO INTERNET BROWSING (sorry for the Ellen caps).
The reality: I hit the snooze button until 8, am in the office by 10:00, and buy my lunch. When I come home at night, I watch t.v. until way too late. Repeat. Basically, I suffer from a severe lack of will power. (I attribute a large part of the problem to my inability to get to bed on time). Some days I get it right, but not nearly as much as I like. I am in BigLaw, but I don’t have kids, so the way I see it, there is no reason why I can’t live my life in the way I described. Yes, I work long hours, but not so long that I can’t get to bed on time, go for a run in the morning. I feel like I’ve tried every trick in the book to help myself get my life on track, and nothing has worked. But, I’m miserable the way I’m living now–I know it’s not healthy, mentally or physically, and I’m desperate to change. So, I appeal to your collective wisdom. Help!
Whoops, I don’t know why this got posted twice! Sorry. Here is my full post. (and yes, I change names , as I’m terrified of people at work figuring out who I am!)
I can understand the desire to make positive changes in your life, but I was wondering, do you actually feel like anything is wrong with the way you live now? Sometimes being around people who live their lives in a drastically different fashion can rub off on you and make you feel like you’re doing something wrong. When I first started my job I felt terrible about the amount of money I was spending- until i realized I was still saving plenty every month, not buying things I wouldn’t wear for years and never rack up a bill I can’t pay off immediately.
With that said I think baby steps are key- try making a large portion size of a healthy meal on Sundays that you can freeze- such as a big batch of soup, stir fry, etc…the other thing is I think a lot of other posters have noted that keeping healthy items in an office fridge is helpful. And if working out isn’t yet your thing, don’t plan to start with an hour a day- try to find 20 minutes for a job or quick walk, or sign up for some kind of a fun fitness activity once a week.
Good luck!
Try picking one goal or a small goal like “this week I’ll make my lunch before going to work” or “I’m going to go for a 10-minute run in the morning 3 days this week.”
Have you made sure that these are goals you are likely to achieve? Personally, there is no way I will ever wake up in the morning to exercise, so I exercise after work. I would never make it a goal to exercise in the morning because it’s a goal I will fail to achieve. Likewise, with lunches. I know I am much more likely to bring in lunch when I can just grab it out my my fridge in the morning. So I make a lot of soup on Sundays and use my pyrex containers to portion the soup Sunday night.
I would try by starting to get up and go to sleep early, as well as adding in some of the exercise you want to do. After sticking to it for a few days you may have more energy. I usually feel more tired when I don’t exercise at all, regardless of the amount of sleep I get.
Maybe decide to start tomorrow or as soon as you can and get out there for a run, even if it is only 10 minutes. Lay out shoes and clothes the night before, so you have less prep in the morning.
I just read this article a few weeks ago and it was great to understand how we make habits. It’s also really interesting (deals with how Target focuses in on potential customers.) It’s great to keep this kind of stuff in mind as you’re trying to change your habits! Google NY times, target, pregnancy and the article should come up.
As an easy thing, I would say make your lunch at night- then you won’t have the excuse of running out of time in the morning. Sometimes mine is as easy as sticking 2 pieces of bread in a ziplock, some turkey and lettuce in a different ziplock, a mustard packet and an apple in a bag. The assembly takes 5 seconds at the office right before I eat.
Also, whenever I work out in the morning I set my alarm on my phone and put it in between my two sneakers across the room. Once I’ve gotten up to turn it off and am standing in front of my sneakers, I’m more likely to put them on and go.
Do everything you can to make these habits easy for yourself! Put your book right next to the tv remote, come up with some easy lunch ideas and grocery shop accordingly. You can do it!
my go to easy peasy lunch is a bean salad that i make on sunday night and can go through during the course of the week. a few scoops in tupperware with some trader joes hummus is the bestest lunch ever. the recipe is a modified bobby flay recipe, i’ll see if i can track it down.
here’s something very close: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/rachael-ray/chickpea-salad-recipe/index.html
i don’t follow it strictly, it’s super easy to tweak using whatever’s in the fridge: feta, cucumbers, carrots, corn, almonds, cranberries, you get the idea…
Do you have cable? Cancelling cable may give you the jolt you need to stop vegging out as much as you do now. We had a gap between changing service providers and it improved the quality of my evening time drastically. but i missed tv. need the mind numbing effect every night.
So right now your “ideal” life is very different from your “real” life. My recommendation is that you sit down and make a list of, say, ten ways that you would like to change your current life to make it more like your ideal life. Then categorize them 1-10 in terms of importance.
Then over the next ten MONTHS slowly implement each ten (you don’t have to necessarily do them in order. Maybe do the most important first, but then jump to number eight, then whatever…I’d alternate between big changes and little changes). The key is to make the changes gradually. It is very, very hard to radically change your life all at once. It is much easier to change your life slowly, but with clear goals to keep you honest. You also have to keep records so that you are responsible, like keep a calendar for each month where you check of the day that you attain each goal for the month.
Anyway — those are my tips.
One additional tip, presumably two of the goals are going to be “get up x hours earlier” and “go to bed x hours earlier.” I strongly recommend implementing number 2 before you implement number 1. The reverse is painful. :-P
You know, that makes so much sense. Huh, go figure.
I actually respectfully disagree. The way I got myself on a better/earlier schedule with less TV/internet time at night was to set my alarm for SUPER early (6:30am) every work day for two weeks in a row. After a few days, I was so tired at night that I went to bed early. And got on a better schedule. It is much easier to force myself to get up in the morning then it is to go to bed when I’m not tired (for me). It was miserable at work for the first week, but after my schedule adjusted, I was happier in the long run.
I think that’s a brilliant suggestion — one I may incorporate myself, as I’m still struggling with working out/eating at home/not wasting my evenings online.
Also, even if you slip up and, say, stay up late on a Tuesday night — don’t let that carry over into the rest of the week/month. Just let it go and try to do better the next day.
I can’t really take credit for it. It’s basically the entire concept behind the book the Happiness Project. :-)
is it possible you’re depressed?
Also, have you been for a check-up lately? I figured out several years ago that if I’m not getting enough iron, I have more fatigue, difficulty concentrating, etc. And, yes, force yourself to start going to bed earlier and then try to implement other things, such as taking a walk, getting up earlier, etc. in stages. Good luck!
I had this same problem. When my iron is low, I can’t bring myself to do anything buy lay on the couch. It’s amazing how quickly I got my energy and motivation back by taking a iron supplement.
Thanks, ladies. These are really helpful tips. (And great recipe!). I really don’t think I’m depressed–I feel quite content, and often happy. I think it’s fundamentally a problem of my inability to delay gratification–a problem I’ve always had, and just sort of coasted. But, now I’m an adult, and I want to live my life intentionally. I really like the tip about “if I mess up, just try to do better.” I too easily get into a mentality of, “Oh well, this day/week is shot, so nothing matters anymore.” For those of you who read hyperboleandahalf.com, this pretty much sums it up: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/06/this-is-why-ill-never-be-adult.html. I guess my last question is–has anyone out there felt like this, and then managed to overcome it successfully, and become an “adult”?
And now I’ve procrastinated by talking about procrastination. Back to doc review.
I love hyperbole and a half! I wish she would post again, it’s been AGES!
I LOVE HYPERBOLE AND A HALF (also her post about depression is so spot on that it was actually painful to read).
That is why I recommend gradual change. Each change needs to be so much a part of your routine that the next change doesn’t lead to system overload. That’s the only way I’ve ever made permanent successful change in my life. Also doc review blows…but that’s neither here nor there. :-)
Completely agree re: system overload. I also try to make everything reward-based. Oh, I went for a run this morning; I am going to have an ENTIRE BAGEL with cream cheese for breakfast. Or finding myself a book that is so much of a page-turner that I can’t wait to get back to it — it’s clearly better than surfing the net or vaguely flipping through channels.
Except that then what usually happens is that I stay up ’til 4am finishing the book. . . .
There was an interesting NYT article several months back about how the concept of “willpower” (or delaying immediate gratification to achieve or get something else down the road) is often misunderstood. One thing that stuck with me from that article was that we can train ourselves to be better at delaying gratification. I do think tackling one thing at a time is the best strategy here. If I were you, I’d start with the fact that you want to get up earlier and run in the morning. Make yourself do it once — pick a day and keep running over the resolution in your head that you’re going to get up at 7 or 7:30 am and run that morning. Then do it. Hopefully the knowledge that you’ve planned this will get you to go to bed earlier that night before — but maybe it won’t. In that case, get up anyway. If you’re anything like me, you will feel so virtuous and proud of yourself for running before work that day — not to mention all the positive physical and emotional effects of the endorphins and adrenaline — that that will make it easier to decide to do this another time. Pick the next day. Then get up and run that morning.
For TV strategies, I am not in a great position to make recommendations, because except for 1-2 shows in any given season, I would far rather read a book or a blog (so my problem is letting myself stay up way too late in front of the computer rather than the TV). But maybe you could do something like that — pick 3-4 shows that you actually *want* to watch; either DVR them or get them on Hulu/Netflix; and then set a specific time to watch them. If you’re not watching one of those previously-selected shows, *DO NOT TURN ON THE TV AFTER DINNER*. Or just don’t turn it on at all after getting home from work.
Gretchen Rubin (of the Happiness Project book that TCFKAG referenced) has some other good ideas about managing TV and about getting to bed earlier. Getting enough sleep has a huge impact on everything else in our lives.
TV: http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2012/02/2012-happiness-challenge-for-those-of-you-following-the-2012-happiness-project-challenge-to-make-2012-a-happier-year-and.html
Sleep: http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2012/02/im-working-on-my-happiness-project-and-you-could-have-one-too-everyones-project-will-look-different-but.html
http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2012/02/i-can-never-get-to-bed-on-time.html
Since I didn’t say it above —
I think part of the key here is mindset. If you think — “OMG I *have* to turn my entire life around; I must make all these changes in order to be happy/become an adult; my current life is pathetic!” — you’re setting yourself up to fail. You don’t have to change your entire life around. Remind yourself of how many things you already do that are working. And then just add one thing that sounds good — cook one Sunday and bring in lunch once that week. Or go for a run one Thursday morning. Chances are that you’ll feel good about doing this one thing, and that will make you want to do it again. And that keeps building on itself.
I can’t give you tips for getting to bed or waking up earlier (I love sleeping in so much, I’ve got my morning routine down to 30-40 minutes), but, to save time, I definitely recommend packing your lunch the night before. OR if you’re super lazy about cooking (like me. I HATE COOKING), make enough food on Sunday night to last you all week – for me, I usually make a big casserole and then stick some chicken breast in a marinade and chop up some vegetable that I can sautee quickly. Then I alternate taking the different meals for lunch or eating it for dinner. I realize this probably sounds monotonous to some people, but when your goal is to cook as infrequently as possible, it works.
As for working out, why not go after work? I know you’re probably exhausted when you finally get to leave, but (a) it’s worth it, (b) you can sleep longer in the morning when you probably feel even sh*ttier, and (c) it’ll tire you out so you can get to be earlier. theoretically. That motivation is going to have to come from within, though.
For walking, if you live in a big city (NYC for example?), could you get off the subway a stop or two early on your way into the office? I have no advice for reading except to find a book you fall in love with and uh, internet browsing… I’m really not the one to give advice for that.
You sound a lot like me a few years ago. Honestly, I was very depressed and had exactly the same thoughts as you – victim to my snooze button!
After years of not being able to force myself to go to bed on time, my therapist told me the secret: GET UP at the same time every day. If you get up at 8am every day, do a brief set of 10-minute exercises before the shower rather than trying to run. Prioritize your sleep and your self. Nothing – no amount of running, breakfasting, etc.- is more important than your sanity.
If you can’t make lunch all the time, at least focus on eating healthy take-out lunches. Try to make small changes. Consider therapy.
All I can say is: “ditto, girlfriend.” Do you also overeat while watching tv? I do.
You sound a lot like me :) One thing that’s helped a lot has been going to a sleep medicine center–turns out there’s an actual sleeping disorder (Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome) that’s been making me so nocturnal over all these years. The gist of it is that my circadian rhythm is off, so just forcing myself to wake or go to sleep earlier is impossible. Light therapy and sticking to a regular schedule help a lot though. You might want to look into it–it’s more common than I would have thought and even if you’re not diagnoses, some of the same strategies might be helpful. Also worth noting that screen time before bed also makes it a lot worse (the light can trick your brain into thinking it’s earlier) so cutting back on TV could help with the sleep schedule. (Although I’m currently trying to cut back too–I blame the super long hours I’ve been working lately and am cutting myself some slack.) And I make lunch and exercise at night–no reason to rebel against my body’s natural sleep patterns more than necessary.
Pink suit? Why not! Shake up your office a bit!
Wow. I was already in a not too great spot, but things just got harder. I’m looking for advice in dealing with the hell that is city government/parking enforcement.
I used to live in DC. In September 2010, my car was hit and totaled while parked on the street. The police advised me not to move my car, and it was not drivable anyway. Then I believe 2 days later, I came home to find it had been removed. It took tons of calling around, and eventually my insurance company found where the city had removed it to.
The next relevant fact is that I got a $500 ticket. Apparently there was a $250 fine for my “abandoned vehicle,” and then another $250 for not paying the original ticket. Of course, I never got the original ticket because presumably they put it on my windshield as they were towing my car away, without notifying let alone asking me, while I was at work. Within 6 days I contested the ticket using the online system. I was told I would get a decision by mail, but never did. Today I received a bill from a collections agency. The DMV apparently says I “never responded to their correspondence” and that my time frame to contest the ticket is passed.
Of course I cannot get a human being on the phone at the DMV. I have an email receipt acknowledging that I contested the ticket way back at the time, but nobody to show it to (not that they would necessarily care). What should I do? Is there any hope in doing anything other than pay?
I would get a lawyer. I would also go in person to the DMV and/or the police station to contest the ticket. That is ridiculous.
A lawyer or a trip to DC could easily each, even on its own, cost me $500. I know you’re trying to help–let me know if I am overlooking something.
What about a certified letter to the DMV, and then follow up (with a copy of the certified letter) with the collections agency?
A few ideas:
1.) Your car insurance company at the time. Often a claim includes the fees for car storage/impoundment. Is this something they looked into/paid? Would they try to help you deal with this now?
2.) The collection agency. Many will close claims if they see a good defense or think it is noncollectable. Note – many lie and they are not your friend. But, you could still try to prove your case with them. If the debt was sold to them, they can close it. If it wasn’t sold to them, they report to the DMV and can get to the bottom of it.
3.) Type up your story demand letter style and mail it to the DMV. Give them x days to respond before you hire a lawyer. Request copies of your records from them, etc.
4.) Maybe a DC corporette attorney who has to go to the DMV anyway could act as your attorney to get more info for you. I’m in small law and we frequently do lots of “as a favor” work. I know this is not common in big law firms and is probably totally prohibited there. Unfortunately, I don’t live there.
something similar happened to me yrs ago in nyc and i’m still bitter about it- the city took my car that was legally parked so they could film war of the worlds, to a bus stop, where it got tickets then impounded, $1000+ later… somehow my husband went to the impoundment and court and got it all dismissed but took months. so, so uncool.
I would contact the collections agency. Show them the email. Tell them that you contested the ticket. Tell them that you are contesting the charges. I’m pretty sure that they have to prove that you owe.
Send a letter to the collections agency stating that you do not owe the money and that the ticket was contested (attach the receipt). I believe there’s something in federal law that if you contest a collections claim, they have to stop bugging you and prove that you owe the money.
I’m sorry. DC gov’t sucks and their DMV is atrocious.
For sympathy/support/other stories, I’d write in to Gene Weingarten’s weekly chat on the Washington Post (Tuesdays with Moron: Chatalogical Humor): http://live.washingtonpost.com/gene-weingarten-120320.html
Write a letter to the city attorney politely explaining what happened and asking if they can help. This is my life sometimes.
TJ: I want to apply to a position that requires a written recommendation. I don’t want to ask my current employer because then he will know that I intend to leave. My previous employer has a policy of telephone recs only. Because I have had only two positions since graduating, the current and the former employer are my only options. I contacted the hiring employer (without divulging my name) and asked whether it would be sufficient to list my former employer’s phone number given his policy of telephone-only recs. Hiring employer said no dice – written recs only. What should I do?
Professor?
Speak to your former employer and BEG.
Do you have someone who you worked with at your current job and who has since left for greener pastures?
Can you get a peer reference? A current co-worker that you trust could write the recommendation for you. Or sign the one you write for her to write for you
This is what I’ve done in my current job search – a former manager (not a direct report, but very high up in the organisation) said “sure, I’ll give you a written reference! Just write one for me and I’ll be happy to stick my name on it!” It was a bit uncomfortable at first writing a letter about how great I am, but I got over that quickly. :)
Will the telephone rec only boss be open to you writing the rec for yourself, and him signing it? That way he doesn’t have to take the time to write the letter?
Gorgeous suit!
Threadjack – are there any employment lawyers out there? I’m a 1L trying to decide which firms to apply for next year, and I’m thinking about some employment boutiques. Pros/cons of this type of work? I am interested in litigation. TIA!
it’s a great area of law — interesting cases/best (forbidden word) party stories you’ll get in a corporate setting. also very easy to transition in-house out of this area if you tire of litigation. i’ve never looked back or gotten tired of it. can’t think of a con — you can do big law, small law, medium law, in-house or transition to HR/business side easily too. great flexibility as a practice area. if you’re only a 1L, try to get an internship at the eeoc or state equivalent — it’s a good way to get exposure to the area and shows you’re serious.
Thanks Darby. I am aiming for it because I am interested in both commercial and constitutional/human rights issues and it seems like a nice mix of both, plus apparently it’s a great way to start off early in advocacy!
I’m at a labor and employment boutique firm and I absolutely love it. I practiced general commercial litigation for 2.5 years before I lateralled to my current firm. It’s a MUCH broader subject area than I originally believed (shockingly, not ever case is a Title VII/ADA discrimination claim) and it allows for specialization in whatever area you’re interested in. I think the fact patterns are generally more interesting in other commercial litigation subjects, and it’s much easier to transition to in-house if that is a long-term goal. I highly recommend it!
How did you go about lateralling? Did you have employment law experience?
Sorry for the late reply – just saw this. I was always interested in L&E, even when I was doing gen. commercial stuff, so I had kept my eye out for potential openings. I talked to a few recruiters and used one when he/she knew of an opening at a L&E boutique. I had the experience in law school to back up wanting to practice in this area though – extensive classes in L&E subjects, my summer internships were all in L&E, and I had kept current through CLEs with the subject matter.
I practiced on both sides of l&e and hated it but mainly that had to do with dealing with labor unions. and all the infighting among people over petty issues, money, and bad apples. but some people in the field love it.
i also did constitutional civil rights class actions- interesting theoretically- day to day, mega spreadsheets and boxes of documents. misery truly. and horrid opposing counsel pretending to be a martyr getting rich of these mostly frivolous cases. I was cleaning out files recently and found emails from that area and couldn’t believe how horrible it was.
I have to admit I kind of despised working for unions. I politically agree with unionism and there were some people there to make the business and employees better, but mostly just jack*sses wanting to be able to work less/underperform and be “untouchable” because of their position on the board.
I work for employers now and I find that as a rule my clients are pretty reasonable, good people, trying to do the best the can in this financial climate. Not to say they’re never wrong, I have one case right now that we may lose but the employer simply can’t afford the interpretation of the contract the employee is insisting on.
I’ve found it a great way to get into advocacy early in my career and I’m in a “career” field now, in that I have a retirement plan, etc… I don’t know if I’ll stick with it, this was never my dream or anything like that. But it’s interesting, it’s challenging, and I genuinely like the people I work with. After the h*ll of working for a union-side regional law firm…it’s pretty incredible.
unions. collective bargaining agreements. please shoot me.
EK – Exactly.
That’s why I want to be an “employment” lawyer, not a “labour” lawyer. I can’t work for unions, as much as I think they are a political necessity.
1L- you may get sucked into both- depends. some employers have a high union percentage and you can’t do one while ignoring the other. but some firms permit this.
i support unions in theory for why they were created, and there are some pockets in the USA where they are still needed, but by and large the system design and practice here is very broken and results in an overly adversarial, greed-driven environment. the laws won’t be changed during our lifetimes most likely sadly. Can’t support them overall given the things I have seen them do to others (worked for what I’ll call a powerful old-school one in New York and with others elsewhere)- stuff won’t get into online. They are not social justice organizations as many people think- they are constituent-based organizations focused on keeping their power where they have it. It’s a tough topic that most people can only have informed opinions about after personal exposure to both sides so I tend to avoid the topic with everyone else who have strong opinions based on fantasy.
Sorry, I’m laughing at 1L now. I suppose you think you’ll never have a case/client you don’t believe in either, I’m totally picturing you sitting with your 1L gurlfriends in Starbucks breathlessly saying “I just couldn’t DO it, how can these attorneys take a position they know is wrong!” and “I’ll just explain the law to my clients, they’ll understand!”
Anyway, even if you’re not working for unions, you’re still working with unions. Honestly, this post makes me think you don’t know what you’re talking about. But then again, you entered law school in this economy, so I guess we pretty much already knew that.
Yikes, There’s a reason it’s called Labor AND Employment Law, retract the claws.
I am, have been for 4 years (did general commercial litigation to start), plaintiff-side. Pros – really no shortage of work, lots of experience to be had in all areas of litigation, and there is (for me) a surprising amount of cross-pollination with other areas of the law. I like the personal side of the work, and sometimes I actually end up having helped someone at the end of it all. Cons – lots of work, pressure to get things right (this may be more plaintiff-side-specific). Everybody I know on both sides in firms works a LOT. I deal more with lower-wage workers, which is not as transferable to the in-house side as dealing with things like employment contracts, non-competes, NDAs, benefits, etc.
I agree re: the best party stories. I can’t believe what some employers have done – and I can’t believe what some of my clients have done!
Yet another day where it feels like I’ve done very little other than work (and Corporette), and yet my billables fail to reflect that.
Nothing quite like getting constantly interrupted with hard-to-capture work.
buy this dress
http://www.thelimited.com/detail/mod-elbow-sleeve-dress/3317558
free shipping and sleeeeeeeves and bright colors and think material.
the pockets are weirdly low but other than that i love it
I think I might! What’s the length like? Any chance it wouldn’t be indecent on a tall girl?
I am 5’5″ and it hits 1 inch above the knee (size 10)
Really thick material. Not fitted in the waist but thats good for me cuz I carry a little extra there.
Oh my god, I love the colour! It reminds me of this Ivanka Trump shirtdress I’ve been ogling: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ivanka-trump-tina-shirtdress/3262111
Unfortunately I don’t think I could pull it off, but it’s so pretty to look at!