Wednesday’s Workwear Report: The Stella Skirt
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’ve been getting served a lot of ads for Sophie Grace, a Canadian company focused on making “streamlined, elegant, mix and match staples,” so I decided to take a look around their site, and I’m psyched. It looks like they have a lot of good-looking basics designed by someone who has actually spent time in a professional office.
This pencil skirt, made of a four-way stretch material, comes in five different colors and has three potential coordinating blazers. I’m placing an order now!
The skirt is $170 and comes in sizes XS-2XL.
Sales of note for 1/15:
- Nordstrom – Designer clearance up to 70% off
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your purchase, including new arrivals + extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off + extra 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance, already up to 60% off
- Express – 30-70% off all sweaters
- J.Crew – Up to 40% off peak-winter styles + up to 70% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-70% off everything + extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Winter sale, up to 50% off — reader favorites include this laptop tote, this backpack, and this crossbody
- M.M.LaFleur – Extra 25% off sale with code + try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 70% off select sale styles
- Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale! 50% off + extra 25% off all markdowns + Red Door Deals $24.50+
I’m looking to upgrade a few basics in my closet, so hoping for some tried and true recommendations! Willing to spend up to $500 for each
-wool coat, ideally with a tie waist or other waist definition
-leather or suede booties that are dressy enough to wear with business attire. Must be comfortable, and have a block heel less than 3”
-puffer coat for temps below 35F. I prefer something that doesn’t make me look like a giant marshmallow
Any suggestions appreciated!
For the coats, I’d look at Soia&Kyo. You can generally get at least a 10-15% discount for signing up for texts. My Camelia coat is so warm I sweat if I wear it above 30F.
For wool coats I’ve always gone in person to a big department store – I prefer to feel how heavy the fabric is. In general my Mackage coats (bought on end of season sale) are my warmest, nicest looking ones. Brooks Brothers is also a good bet!
+1 to Soia & Kyo for puffer coats.
While your budget feels healthy for those things, it’s too low. All of those come in low end and then 1K+ options. I think you probably have the low end stuff already. Maybe look at Loeffler Randall for boots – might be closer to your number for a nicer pair. And try North Face or something like that for the puffer coat. If I was going to really upgrade, I’d be looking at Canada Goose and Khaite for boots.
I have the Patagonia Tres parka. While it is bulky, the outer layer is waterproof and only the inner is the puffer. This puppy is WARM and I have had mine since 2008 or so, and it still looks GREAT. I bought it at Sierra Trading Post (past season) and I would look there or Patagonia worn wear if you want to get it for less. Link to follow
https://www.patagonia.com/product/womens-tres-3-in-1-parka/28411.html
https://wornwear.patagonia.com/products/ws-tres-parka_28405_blk?color=black
I had one of these and it was very nice, but after the long black puffers became ubiquitous I felt outdated and frumpy in the Tres. Which is silly because Patagonia is not supposed to be fashion-y, but it’s something to consider.
I agree. This isn’t fashion.
You can find some very nice coats and boots in the $500 range, especially on sale. I got all my Aquatalia boots from Gilt.com at crazy discounts, for well under $500. Margaux will fit the budget for boots if it still has any stock left, and it comes in wide and narrow widths. I bought a Fleurette coat on sale at Nordstrom last year for around $600. The Lauren line at Ralph Lauren has some wool-blend wrap coats for well under $500. I have one of these that is very nice from several years ago; I’m not sure whether the quality is the same now.
For a puffer, check out the Aritizia Super Puff.
Agree. This is a great time of year to get good stuff in that price range.
What? Aside from a 100% wool coat you can easily get nice but not top-of-the-line versions for $500. Aquatalia’s booties are around $500. Aritzia (Canadian brand) has wool blend coats and sleek-ish puffers for less than that.
I guess I don’t see those as upgrades?
Depends on what you’re upgrading from. Aquatalia is certainly an upgrade from Blondo. And it seems to be good enough for the Princess of Wales.
For most on this site, $500+ Aquatalia booties are upgrades.
I found a gorgeous knee length heavy, luxe wool coat for $94 in mid December at my local mall. It’s not a designer brand, but it isn’t junk and wad not the only option in that price range. The stores were already moving winter gear to the sales racks and things were marked down 70% or more. I’m in an upper Midwest town and winter is just getting started.
Now is the perfect time to invest in these items, as you should be ideally placed for the after holiday sales. I love my Mackage puffer, which is just above knee-length, and manages to be both warm and slim-fitting. Also check out Soia and Kyo coats – they are lovely. If you live where there is great consignment, I’d check there for the coats (I don’t like used shoes). But jump on this now – the pickings are getting slim in terms of sizes for the sales I’ve been haunting.
For the coats – you probably can get some good deals right now with the after-season sales. A colleague has a lovely Ted Baker wool coat that meets your criteria and this year’s version is on sale for under $400 currently at Bloomingdales. Also echoing the rec to check Soia & Kyo for both the wool and the puffer.
I will also endorse the Columbia long puffers with omni-heat. They’re more of a budget pick so maybe not what you are after, but the reflective heat shield means that it stays warm without having to be as puffy. I sized up in mine so I could wear bulky sweaters under and it still doesn’t look very marshmallowy.
Idk if they are formal enough for you, but I just got the heeled blundstones (dressier than the normal ones) and am obsessed. They are soooo comfortable, go with everything, and are good in snow and slush, especially with the sherpa insoles.
Not the most fashion-forward, but I’ve searched high and low and have yet to find anything as comfortable and functional as blundstones.
https://www.blundstone.com/products/black-leather-pull-on-boots-womens-style-1671
Would definitely steer the OP to Aquitalia or maybe La Canadienne for something sleeker and more timeless.
I’m not their demographic but I got a proper wool coat from Aritzia. Think it’s a pretty good mix of style and quality and price.
https://www.aritzia.com/us/en/product/the-connor-long-coat/128329.html?color=6162
For a puffer I always go lands end, the best for the price and lots of options. I also have a good friend whose daughter is at school in Michigan who is happy with the one she got off quince.
Check out Eddie Bauer for the puffer – most of their outerwear is on sale, and they have some sleeker styles.
HIghly recommend the Sun Valley Down parka. It is WARM and while not thin, it is bulletproof in bad weather. I wore mine daily for years in Boston and it fit in perfectly as polished puffer business attire. It also comes in petites, regular, tall and plus, so you can get the fit just right for you.
Re: the puffer, I live in a cold place and have bought expensive coats and coats off EBay. The best value I’ve found is the North Face “Women’s Arctic Parka.” Fits well, very toasty, not so crazy expensive that you’re paranoid about keeping it nice. I had a tailor replace the fake fur with real stuff from an old coat and I taped over the tacky logos using trimmed No-Sew patches.
We are going to take a family vacation with a long plane trip. DH wants to fly in not-coach class; he is wide but not especially tall. The rest of us do coach fine and will likely sleep some of the trip. It would be a budget buster for 4 of us to fly like that. Just send him to business class and let him deal with flying solo?
It’s not clear to me if you’ve ruled out premium economy? That’s a decent budget compromise.
I don’t really like premium economy because although it’s less than business it’s a lot more than economy and doesn’t have the benefit of a flat seat that enables me to sleep, so for me it’s not really worth it. But it is a wider seat so it seems like it could be a good solution here if he really just needs a wider seat and is ok being upright.
Be aware though that the armrests in premium economy are often fixed and can’t be raised, which can make it a lot harder for little kids to sleep since they can’t slump over on their parents’ shoulders and laps the way they could in economy. I know for sure it’s this way on United — it was an unpleasant surprise after I scored a free upgrade flying with a toddler.
the armrest thing is airline dependent, and unfortunately hard to suss out before booking and boarding (for me anyway, I don’t know all the different plane configurations like some do).
Probably a good question for the airline sub-r3ddit
Um yea if you’re ok with spending the money for that, he will be fine. I don’t really get why an adult flying solo in a luxury cabin is something he has to “deal” with. He’s the one being pampered.
I am pretty sure OP meant she has to deal with being alone with the kids in economy…
Ha! I just re-read. Nevermind. I do see she said he is dealing with flying solo….
Oh wait. Not what she said at all! Disregard.
So he’d leave you with the kids? Unacceptable.
He can deal with being squished in a seat, maybe it will motivate him.
This is my thinking, too. Unless he’s so wide he needs 2 seats in coach, he will survive.
I don’t know how old the kids are, but my kids are fine to travel with. I would have no issue being solo with them.
+1. I fly solo with my kids fairly often, and it is totally nbd.
I often travel solo with my kids and find it very manageable, but I would resent my husband flying in business with the kids and me stuck in coach!
Yeah, I don’t mind sitting with my elementary age kids in the slightest. It’s just littles who are stressful to fly with.
sounds like you are implying that lack of motivation is the reason for him being wider. That’s jumping to conclusions big time.
I would let him suffer in coach like everyone else. Put him in an aisle seat next to the smallest kid. If he really wants to burn $ then put him in fancy pants class on his own, but only if you are willing to wrangle the kids solo. He would not be the one left to “deal” in this scenario—you would. Sitting alone is the luxury.
Exactly — the idea that the husband is the one suffering alone in business class while mom is in coach with the kids is absolutely wild.
I also find the language used here troubling. Like he’s convinced her he’s the one taking one of the team by doing this. I suspect there are some real imbalances at work in this dynamic.
Get him an economy bulkhead seat. If he is wide put him on a diet.
I thought bulkhead seats were even narrower because of the tray tables being in the armrests?
I thought bulkhead seats were even narrower because of the tray tables being in the armrests?
yeah they’re usually a bit narrower, and the main benefit is tons of extra legroom so the wrong choice in this scenario. Would be ideal for the hypothetical 6’6 husband though.
God you people are assholes.
Deal with? Huh? Deal with the burden of flying business alone while his wife flies economy with two kids? Sign me up for that burden. Can you all do premium economy? Or have him sit next to the smaller kid?
Can you afford it though? Is this a situation where he wants to spend money differently than you do? I won’t take a long flight unless I’m in business or first, and it’s a nonnegotiable with my husband who doesn’t care. We can afford it and it matters to my enjoyment of the rest of the trip to not arrive miserable.
OP here and it is spendy for us in coach. It seems to double the price to upgrade the flights for 4 people.
So sounds like it’s a how you spend money issue. I think having him go first/business is a reasonable compromise in that situation. If your kids are old enough to sit by themselves, I’d do both of you in business and not the kids.
I think if he wants to fly coach he needs to accept that the whole family will fly coach and he needs to figure out how to make it affordable for the family as in, he gives up his golf habit for a month or something along those lines. It’s not fair to make everyone else fly economy while he flies coach.
Again, this is the kind of thing where couples diverge on how to spend money. I would never cut back on something else when we can well afford what I’m proposing just because my spouse wanted to be cheap about it.
Coach is economy.
+1
This is kinda crazy. The most hospitable way I can read this is that there is a disagreement with respect to whether they can swing the upgrade for the family. Is he saying you all should fly business and you’re insisting it’s out the budget? That’s the only way him “dealing” with being alone in business class makes sense.
Or is he really saying “hey I think I should get the upgraded seat and stick you with the kids?” If so your husband seems like a nightmare. Was he a jerk when you married him? Anyway, if you can’t afford to travel as a family in a way he deems acceptable then the trip is out of budget. I’ve opted out of trips for similar reasons. It’s fine. He doesn’t get to peace out into business class and stick you with the kids. Good grief.
She isn’t being cheap. It seems that they can barely afford just coach for the whole family.
So coach is already expensive for your budget? He needs to sit in coach with the rest of the family and just deal with it.
Who is setting the budget?
I think the “burden” of flying solo is being lonely and also coming across as an entitled jerk who has a family back in coach. Maybe you need a larger seat if you are very tall or need a belt extender but I feel that if you only have a budget for coach, you can generally manage in coach. Or go where you can drive to if comfort of travel matters that much.
This
“Deal with” business by himself? Uh, he’s the 1000% winner there. Def no.
I think you either take on the cost or let him go where he fits but rotate in a few times for relief from the kids. Ive lost 100 lbs. I would take kids any day over being put in a chair I don’t fit in. I suspect a lot of those answering have never lived in an obese body (and the comment about “motivation” isn’t helpful. Believe me, being fat is tough in a million ways and there’s a lot of different reasons for obesity. if it were all just being motivated enough most folks would be thin.)
Did some comments get deleted? I am not seeing anything about “motivation” or criticizing his width.
There was a comment at 8:52am that said in part “He can deal with being squished in a seat, maybe it will motivate him.”
As someone who also struggles with obesity, I also thought that the comment was hugely unhelpful.
but you focus one half of a sentence out of so many helpful ones. I think posters are being fair about this husband who seems a bit selfish.
Also can we just admit that modern airplanes are ridiculous. I’m 5’2″ and my legs are too long on some flights. I was more comfortable when I was 115lb than at 145lb. In no world should someone my size feel cramped in seating that’s meant for people in general.
I am 5’6″ and a size 2. An economy-class seat is barely as wide as my shoulders, and my knees nearly touch the back of the seat in front of me. Unless I am sitting next to another small woman, my neighbor will inevitably try to claim some of my seat for their own shoulders. Somehow I am expected to scrunch myself down to accommodate them. Just make the dang seats to contain at least an average-sized person.
Agreed. I am 5’2″ and about 115 lbs. I am more or less comfortable in an airline seat (as much as one can be), but am stunned to look down at my lap and see how little spare room there is now, between the sides of the seats and before the seat in front of me. I truly do not know how the average person, much less anyone bigger than average, is expected to handle it, and it’s completely unfair.
They won’t let you switch seats. You’re supposed to sit in your ticketed cabin. If you have a nice flight attendant they might let you switch once, so each adult could have business for half the flight. There’s no chance they’ll let you keep switching back and forth multiple times.
Eh, I see people doing this all the time.
I have never seen anyone successfully switch more than once and I’ve seen flight attendants stop people from doing it dozens of times. I would 100% not count on doing it.
Agreed with Anon at 11:15. It is not a guarantee that you will be able to repeatedly switch seats from business to economy. Totally depends on your flight attendants. Switching seats within the same cabin is easy/fine.
This is a great way to p1ss off the flight attendants and ensure you get terrible service, even in the premium cabin.
Yeah, I think you’re much more likely to get away with seat swapping between regular economy and premium economy (or a premium seat like exit row); but actual cabin swapping is frowned upon
Is DH so wide he would need 2 seats in coach?
I think this is a good suggestion. They could buy two seats for him and essentially have more room for them all if they take up a row.
Book a row in coach for you and the kids as close to the front as possible, premium economy for DH, and you and DH switch off who is sleeping in premium and who is on with the kids in coach.
Depending on the kids’ ages, getting an entire row might be reasonably comfortable for him anyway, other than takeoff and landing. If there’s an option to take a row of 3 plus the aisle seat next to it, or book a row of 4 if it’s a big plane, that might be good enough for him.
This thread is taking an unpleasant turn into commenting on just HOW wide this guy can be. Yikes.
Insofar as it might necessitate buying 2 coach seats as opposed to 1 business class seat, it is a relevant fact.
How wide he is relates to the question asked and is in no way fat-shaming in this context. If the family would need to buy 2 coach seats for husband, then the first class calculation is different (but to me, still problematic in leaving OP solely responsible for the kids in coach).
I get the concern about seat size. My hubs is not tall but lifts a lot. Sitting in coach means that he is squished most of the time as he tries to turn into a turtle and make his shoulders smaller, or ventures into my seat.
Take this with a grain of salt because my kids are 13 and 11, and they are easy travelers. But I would put the 3 of you in coach and put your husband in premium economy.
Are premium economy seats wider, or do they just have more leg room?
For a very wide person, buying two economy seats is more socially responsible than cramming oneself into one premium seat and overflowing into the next.
They are not wider. They have 6 inches of additional leg room.
That’s economy plus, which is part of coach. Premium economy is a separate cabin and is a wider seat.
Premium economy is usually only offered on longer routes. The seats are wider, recline slightly more, and there is more legroom.
Economy plus is different and more like regular economy with slightly more legroom.
Yeah, I’d do the same, or some version of it. Some of the commenters here are being mean to the husband, who hasn’t really done anything here, except maybe to the extent the OP used the phrase “deal with” which is confusing? Obvi every family is different, but in mine, it’s OUR money, not MY money, and I like my husband and wouldn’t want him to be physically uncomfortable on a flight. Maybe there is some swapping of seats that could be done if your kids are little and tough to travel with.
In my family it’s our money too, and that means that one person doesn’t get to spend $$$$ to fly premium while everyone else is stuck in economy. We all suffer or enjoy together.
So does that mean this is how it goes ongoing? Because this sets the precedent.
Eeks- I agree this thread is taking unpleasant turns.
I will say, it’s not clear to me how old the “kids” are and who has what burden. If you’re going to be responsible for 2 young kids, that’s a very different calculation than sitting next to 2 independent teens. For me, the first would be an absolutely not but I’d be willing to consider the latter.
Why is it unpleasant to say that he is not automatically entitled to fly in business class just because he is large?
What is affordable is subjective. I’d rather stay in a cheaper hotel, eat out less, do fewer haircuts, etc. People come in all shapes and sizes and degree of discomfort comes with that. Truly—I know it’s hard to believe. Lots of options from whether a shorter trip is better for everyone, a trip without the kids or until they reach a different age, etc. Making him squeeze into a seat he doesn’t fit in only answers her needs.
If it’s two teens, I’d also put OP in first with her husband and let the kids sit in coach. That’s how we always traveled growing up.
This
I think at least on the US carriers you’ll have to pay an unaccompanied minor fee unless your kids are 15, which would really annoy me. And unaccompanied minors sit at the very back of the plane near the bathrooms, possibly in seats that don’t even recline, so it would be worse for the kids than regular economy. I am looking forward to having kids over the age of 15 and being able to do this though.
This is incorrect
I had to turn down a domestic first class upgrade when flying solo with a 13 year old because there was only 1 seat left and they wouldn’t allow us to sit in separate cabins. They told me the official policy for kids under 15 was flying as a registered unaccompanied minor or ticketed in the same cabin as an adult companion.
Really?! You’d ask your husband to be physically uncomfortable on a long flight? Without considering any other alternatives? Imagine you were in that position; how would that flavor your family vacation? Your marriage? I guess I’m assuming that he would truly be uncomfortable in coach, and maybe that’s not the case…but if it is…geez.
Coach is uncomfortable for everyone. He shouldn’t get to fly premium if the whole family can’t afford it.
Seriously!
I agree. I hate flying because of the discomfort.
What? Yes. Of course. We have a 1 year old and 3 year old. Imagine how my solo parenting them for that flight would flavor our vacation and marriage. I think that’s a completely reasonable boundary to have. Of course, then, you have to consider what are the reasonable alternatives.
My boundary would be then we all go first or we don’t go. Probably what the husband is thinking. Whose boundary get respected?
Are your kids old enough to notice that their dad gets better treatment than everyone else? Are there times where he puts up with personal discomfort so that you can have something nice that’s important to you? Because kids learn how to treat their significant others from how their parents treat each other. If your husband truly doesn’t fit in a coach seat, and you truly can’t afford upgrading everyone, then it makes sense to upgrade him alone. But if you do that, you need to also explain to the kids why he gets something extra that you and they do not.
Honestly though the airplane class system makes this different to me. This isn’t like oh mom golfs on sundays and it’s expensive and dad watches the kids. This is like dad is the priority, literally a better class, receiving more comfort, peace and better food and treatment and somehow deserves these things that mom doesn’t. It’s such a no go for me. I’ve never flown anything but coach and it’s fine but it’s also an indignity; it’s unpleasant and you’re treated poorly. To watch dad get treated better and be told that family resources went to that because his comfort matters more than moms is rough on a kid. It’s going to read like his bigger body, impossible to untangle from masculinity, entitles him to it. I’d feel differently if both parents were in first class.
Yes, this exactly. Why does dad get better treatment just because he is a large man, while mom, a woman, has to deal with economy class?
I fly both regularly and business is a thousand times better. The price is so hard to stomach upfront, but I’m always so glad I did it whenever I buy it. I would also have a really hard time with this regardless of size. But some people truly don’t care. My husband often opts for coach even when I get a screaming deal on business. He doesn’t find the flat seat as comfortable as I do and is more frugal so to him it’s not worth even a few hundred bucks (which to me, is such a no brainer). Maybe OP is more like my husband and really isn’t bothered by it. I agree it kind of sends an icky message to the kids though.
Wow this thread has taken an unpleasant tone and is making all sorts of assumptions. If OP had said her husband was 6’6″ I suspect the responses would be different.
OP – in your shoes and assuming your children are at least school aged, I would put the husband in business class and sit in economy with the kids. If they ask, you just explain that Dad is bigger and the seats are too small for him to be comfortable. If the kids are younger, then he needs to suck it up. but you can put him next to the smallest child and raise the armrest. But then I am related to someone who is truly too tall to sit in a coach seat without being miserable both during and for a solid 24 hours after the flight (the angle kills his knees), so I am more understanding than a lot of other people here.
If she’d said he was 6’6 the response would not have been any different, at least for me.
Same!
Coach is unpleasant for me even as a not-large person, partly because everyone else is always encroaching on my space and feels entitled to because I am on the smaller size. And premium classes aren’t just a bigger seat. I don’t think being tall or wide is a good enough reason for the husband to deserve what is a much better flight experience all around than his wife will have. He will be able to sleep while the rest of the family will be dozing fitfully, if at all.
Other than one comment about this “motivating” him (which was called out by several people), I don’t really see any fat-shaming in this thread. It’s not an issue of height vs weight. In fact, I think a very tall thin person would likely be better off in the extra legroom coach seats than a heavy person, and would have even less of a justification for business class.
Yes
I think the problem is the idea of “Coach is uncomfortable for everyone” so he should just deal. When you are average size, you don’t even realize how wildly off this is. I’ve been a bunch of different sizes. It’s not a matter of a fancier experience at all at a certain size. It’s incredibly painful to have an arm rest digging into you or karate chopping down on you and have nothing you can do about it. I know most of you have fortunately not had to experience that. His needs are just as important on this and almost no one is even giving a nod to that. “Affordability” is subjective. Whether it is “worth” spending money on versus other things in life.
Yes, it should be obvious that it’s not equally uncomfortable for everyone. I’m the commenter who noticed a big difference from 115lb to 145lb. Her husband is probably more than 145lb and the seats are proportionately more uncomfortable.
Most of life is more difficult and painful for women than for men, and we don’t get to upgrade our way out of it. Big man can suck it up for 14 hours.
Good thing this isn’t a guy telling his wife not to spend money. Am I right?
I’m nearing the end of my first trimester, and my regular clothes are starting not to fit. My manager knows I’m pregnant, but I would prefer to hold off sharing with other people in the office for a bit. Any advice on reasonably professional clothing that isn’t tight in the waist? My office is business casual. My previous child a was Covid baby and I just wore leggings all the time, so I’m somehow at a loss and I feel like current fashion leans more tailored in the waist area.
A blazer or sweater jacket, worn open over a flowy blouse, is your friend here. The structure of the blazer will create a visual “waist” when viewed from the front, but in profile it will conceal your abdomen. Don’t tuck the blouse in. It’s winter, so if anyone asks you were cold in the office. Use a hair elastic to ease your pants button a bit.
Co-sign as a person with a menopause shape that made me the apple I was when pregnant. Jackets and blazers are your friend. Build from there. Also, if you have any dresses you can belt and blouse up over the belt, that often gives you a shape that disguises what is you and what is fabric.
Peplum tops and maternity trouser extenders are your friend until you are ready to go public. If you’re ready to buy maternity pants, I highly recommend getting a pair of black or dark neutral maternity trousers that can be mixed and matched with a variety of outfits. You can find them for under $50 in a variety of cuts and leg widths, and they look like normal professional attire below the waist.
I got away with hiding a lot with an oversized blazer and an added scarf which I think took away some focus. When I finally announced I was pregnant I had a chic female colleague tell me she hadn’t noticed – she’d just been admiring my scarf game!
Just had a baby 12 months ago. All maternity clothes are horrific. Basically on par with Halloween costume-level quality. Just get some maternity dress pants from Amazon for cheap, and wear loose tops.
I loved the clothing that I bought from Isabella Oliver. It’s spendy, but well made and very flattering. Trick is, just accept that you will be wearing the same 4-6 outfits on repeat, and the total cost isn’t terrible.
During my second trimester, I bought clothes that were one size bigger than I normally wore. One strong suggestion: jersey knit dresses, which flow well and will be comfortable.
The advantage of the “one size bigger” clothes is that they are very likely to fit you when you are postpartum and returning to work.
I was/am also frustrated with the current style. Look for flowy high waisted pants and wear a sweater or blazer on top.
Lean into maternity clothes. Marion and Hatch for nicer pieces. Kindred Bravely for bras and elevated casual. Old Navy for basically everything else. Ekouaer on Amazon has really soft PJs that I still wear occasionally; I especially love their shorts with pockets.
I hesitated about a pair of expensive-to-me black pants from either Marion or Hatch, but they were my best maternity purchase. Absolute workhorse and I wore them for a few weeks postpartum too.
The Lands End ponte pants might work for you too. They’re a decent quality and inexpensive, but they don’t have pockets.
If you still have some cold weather ahead of you, the Gap Cashsoft Cardigan has a boxy fit — could even wear it buttoned up. It is on the shorter side though so I’d only recommend it if you’re petite.
Not pregnant but I’m about to start IVF (and don’t want my coworkers to know). For the flowy tops are there certain fabrics or colors that are better at disguising a belly?
IMO, for IVF, you get puffy in your very lowest part of your abdomen, not much around your waist, if that makes any sense. It won’t change your pants size much.
I never got noticeably puffy for IVF, and I’ve done it multiple times.
I was really sore in my abdomen and didn’t want anything restrictive. No hard pants. I’d get something a bit looser or just prepare to be in dresses when the weather is better.
Thank you all for your advice! Off to buy a pair of nice work pants, a flowy blazer and a few loose tops. And yes, why is maternity wear so terrible (and expensive)?
After some hemming and hawing, we’ve decided to attempt to buy a small house in our VHCOL area. Hit me with your best resources for understanding how this process works. Do we start with a realtor? A pre-approval letter, then realtor? We’d be first-time buyers (in case that wasn’t obvious) and the one thing we know is that we’d prefer to put more down to keep the monthly payment lower, so we would sell of some investments we have at Vanguard. The rest is TBD, including condo vs. SFH (although we think we’d prefer SFH – seems unlikely to find a condo that overcomes condo downsides in our area). Any advice appreciated. Located in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area if anyone has amazing realtor recs. My family once worked with an incredibly competent realtor in another state to sell a property. If we could find someone like her (who just. Got. It. Done.), I would be delighted.
A good realtor is worth their weight in gold. I’ll defer to people in your market but here, a preapproval letter is standard and then finding a realtor who will sign you up for MLS listings and book showings. Again though, by market it can vary – friends bought a house in the Bay Area sight unseen for $$$ and it was totally a different process because they were dealing with an estate.
One step you can take immediately that really helped us – if you go to realtor.com, you can sort for recently sold properties. As my realtor said, what’s relevant isn’t what something is listed at, it’s what they’re actually selling at. Looking through that gave me a really good sense of what I could get for my money where. It also helped me feel confident that we were getting a decent deal. We also ran a quick spreadsheet where we looked at all in monthly costs. For us, Town A had higher house prices but lower taxes than town b so our monthly cost was similar. We also added in commuting costs, HOA fees, and Reno budget to be able to compare across houses. For us, it was the biggest purchase we were going to make and having some research and analytics behind it helped us with our confidence.
Thank you – good idea on the spreadsheet. Were you able to autofill any cells from popular real estate websites?
Not the original commenter you’re replying to, but we bought in competitive northeast market a year ago. Downloaded from Redfin the entire set of “sold” houses in our town from the prior 12 months in our price range / target size into an excel (it included a bunch of specs like listed price, sold price, sq ft, beds, etc as well as the listing link). Then my SO and I reviewed together and added a column for whether we liked or not and very short reasons why not if no. Sent that over to our realtor and it helped her totally nail it – she got us an off market house that was actually perfect. Also helped both of us really understand what the other person wanted / didn’t for when we had to make decisions alone.
What a smart idea. Thanks for sharing.
The Bay Area is its own ballgame. Get a realtor first to walk you through everything. You’ll want the area you’re looking in. Ask around, everyone who owns has someone.
agree and disagree, lol. You do indeed want to know which area, or even neighborhoods you are looking in. If you already do, go get a realtor who specializes in that area. But if you don’t, it might not make sense to commit to a realtor now. If your agent is more familiar with Albany and El Cerrito, they might not be much help if you decide to focus on Oakland later in the your search.
Going to open homes is very informal, and there’s no commitment. We were in your exact situation 3 years ago, and just started seeing 1-2 houses on weekends, slowly narrowing down our preferences and what was affordable and realistic. Eventually we sort of committed to a realtor who was nice and polished, but in hindsight she didn’t seem very knowledgeable, and also once we ended up focusing on Oakland she was kinda passive. With redfin and Zillow nowadays, buyers have so much information available to them, that the purpose of an agent shifts from helping clients ‘find’ places, to more consulting and assisting them navigating the market and bidding process. We are now trying to sell our house (getting out of the country, would have liked to stay in Oakland though), and have been working with Todd Fortier, who seems more engaged and knowledgeable than our previous realtor. We are early in the process, so I’m hedging my recommendation a little. If you want to post a burner address, I’d be happy to talk some more.
I second going to open houses – it gives you a chance to meet different realtors and see who you click with (and who seems knowledgeable of the area and type of home you want). If you’re looking in Oakland/San Leandro, Wendy Graves is excellent. Good luck!
Realtor.com tells me “contact for price” on the recently sold ones. Is there a way around that?
I’d work on getting a realtor and a preapproval letter simultaneously, as the letter should be fast (<24 hours), but finding a good realtor could take a while. Both times I bought a house I lucked into great realtors through personal connections, so work your network for recs. A preapproval letter doesn't need to come from the bank you ultimately get your loan from (it didn't for either house we bought), but is helpful for constraining your budget, though it will almost always be for much more than you want to spend (though not necessarily in a VHCOL area), and I think most realtors won't work with you until you have one.
How did you decide where to get the preapproval letter? Just any bank?
Maybe it’s different in VHCOL areas, but we got a realtor first and the realtor had a preferred bank for the preapproval letter.
I got them from banks I already had accounts with, but for a variety of reasons didn’t necessarily want to get a mortgage from. Once you have a realtor, you can also ask them if they have any suggestions, but I didn’t get the impression that it particularly mattered.
same!
If you know a mortgage broker, they can be really helpful at walking you through the process. Your realtor will have a relationship with a mortgage broker and vice versa, so you can tap the connections of whomever you find and like first.
Do you have access to a private bank? My firm has a relationship with a bank and their rate was awesome. We also had VA as an option, but the private bank had the better rate.
Oh, other thing – the stock available will be either the oldest around (1940s-50s ranches), the next oldest (60s-80s ranches), and sometimes a 2000s build. I’m excluding the newest McMansions from that. Would appreciate advice on features and pitfalls to look for.
You’re going to just need some cash to fix things. We don’t really do inspections here as dealbreakers and having a mortgage is a liability not an asset (most people buy for all cash). This is why you start with a realtor. They won’t send you on time wasting errands like pre approval letters.
All-cash offers in the Bay Area are no more than 25% of the total – so not “most.” Still crazy tho.
That’s interesting, because in Manhattan, 64% of condo/coop sales were all cash in the past year: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/06/realestate/manhattan-cash-home-buyers.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ClA.kgbU.wtDssG0ACeoq&smid=url-share
Any halfway decent single family home in the Bay Area where you’d want to live is going to have at least one all cash offer well over asking.
PS – this doesn’t mean people don’t later take on a mortgage, it just means the sale isn’t contingent on financing. This makes it extremely hard for a regular person to buy a SFH in a desirable area.
OP here and we’ve decided to try anyway, even though an all-cash offer is not in the cards for us. We’re hoping to get lucky since we’re a small family (2 adults, 1 and done kid, 1 cat) and we are willing to compromise on a lot.
we didn’t have all cash in 2023, when the market was much hotter than now. We put more than 20% down though, and stayed well beneath the pre-approved maximum. For the seller this provides confidence that your loan is not likely to hold up the closing, which is pretty good, even if not all cash.
If you’re going to sell investments, you may want to do it now and have the cash in your account. Also think about if you need any large purchases on your credit card. When closing on a purchase, large purchases to use up more available credit or large infusions and transfers into accounts slow closing as the latter can appear as an undisclosed gift.
This is probably a dumb question, but I’ve always wondered. What areas in the US count as VHCOL? The Bay Area? Any others?
I googled this bc I was curious as well, and it tracked with what I was thinking. There’s a cost of living index that accounts for the price of basic goods as well as housing. The general consensus is NYC, Honolulu, Bay Area/San Jose, Orange County/LA, Boston, DC and Seattle are VHCOL cities in the US. I’m a little surprised San Diego didn’t make the list.
A lot of other cities in CA also have very high house prices (like Santa Cruz or Santa Barbara) but the cities aren’t large enough to make largest cities lists or the average price gets lowered by lumping them together with cheaper neighboring cities. That might be the case for San Diego too, though it looks like the average house price there is currently just under a million, which might be the cut off (vs 1.3 for Santa Cruz, 1.7 for Santa Barbara, 1.4 for San Jose, just under 1 for LA, or 1.3 for SF, all numbers from Zillow).
It’s been 15 years since I lived in San Diego so my info is dated, but – while house prices are very high, a lot of other stuff isn’t. Groceries and utilities were cheaper than my major east coast city. The infrastructure in general is newer and built for modern life, so it’s easier and less expensive to get around. Yes you sit in traffic, but you’re not spending $500+/mo to park near work, for example, and you don’t have $20 tolls to cross a bridge that noticeably sways while you’re driving.
I live in San Diego – it used to be the case that housing prices were the only noticeably higher COL expense (from my perception) but that is not the case anymore. Everything is crazy expensive now – gas, groceries, utilities, restaurants, schools (if private). I consider San Diego a VHCOL city. I could not afford to buy a house in my neighborhood anymore, and it’s small (2 bed, 2 bath, 1200 sq. feet) and I earn a good attorney salary.
Something to know about the Bay Area is that there are no affordable areas within any reasonable distance of the major cities. That makes a difference from a lot of areas of the country.
This. And it all just works differently here. You don’t get to choose features in your house, you buy things knowing you’ll spend money to fix them so inspections are just budgetary not dealbreakers, you’re competing with all cash offers for anything halfway decent. You basically need a lot of money or to push to those outer areas and deal with a very long commute.
To me the Bay Area and maybe NYC are VHCOL and Seattle, SoCal, Hawaii, Boston and DC are just HCOL. The Bay is really in a class by itself, because there aren’t affordable suburbs within reasonable commuting distance. I think even NYC is better in that regard.
I’m not sure what it’s like on the Bay Area but in NYC we went to a few open houses on our own and found our realtor that way. She was selling an apartment we looked at but weren’t interested in but we liked her and asked if she’d work with us.
My husband and I just closed on a small SFH in Boston as first-time buyers. Some tips, off the top of my head:
– Get a pre-approval letter first. Some realtors won’t invest much time in you until you’re pre-approved. I think it helps to get your pre-approval from a lender that has a strong reputation in your local area. When sellers review your offer, they want to know your lender will be able to close the deal on time. You don’t necessarily need to shop around for rates now, though. Once your offer is accepted, you can call up different lenders and see how their rates to compare to the lender that provided your pre-approval.
– Have you started going to open houses? We went to lots of open houses to get a sense of what was available in our price range and desired neighborhoods. I made a spreadsheet of the homes we toured and tracked the price at which they sold. Having this data helped us get a sense of our local market and what we could expect to pay for a homes that we liked.
– In addition to thinking about location and aesthetics, try to learn as much as you can about the structure and systems of houses in general and the specific houses you’re interested in. This is especially important if you need to waive inspection to be competitive. Read some sample inspection reports to get a sense for the things inspectors look for.
– In competitive markets like the Bay Area and Boston, list prices can be somewhat meaningless. You need to use comps to figure out what to offer independent of the list price.
– Your local library probably has some books aimed at first-time home buyers. We checked out a few, and found them to be helpful references.
Reach out to your network for recommendations on an agent. We have someone who is really business savvy and it makes all the difference in the world. Look for a business or finance degree or other Indicia you aren’t getting an glorified shoe salesman.
It’s a different market now than a couple years ago when I bought my east bay house, but that’s in your favor- we put in 4 offers. It’s worth going to a couple open houses now while you’re starting out to figure out exactly what you need and what you’d want (i.e. garage, 2 bathrooms, and solid foundation were non-negotiable for us, but square footage and being turnkey ready weren’t that important). Nothing is perfect, and if it is perfect you probably can’t afford it.
Typically you find a realtor by word of mouth or by going to open houses and asking the realtor there if they’d work as your buyer’s agent (not for the same property- that’d be a horrid conflict of interest). FYI realtors tend to specialize in neighborhoods and the policies/rules for each can be different enough that having a neighborhood specialist helps. (for example, Oakland requires you to scope the sewer lateral to complete a sale- the sellers agent for our house didn’t know this and almost torpedo’d the sale as a result).
Preapproval from your bank or a mortgage broker is something you should do ASAP. We used a broker as our bank couldn’t match his rates. The preapproval limits are always more than you’d want to spend. Property taxes and insurance can be high in the bay area- make sure you’re budgeting them in.
An offer comprises both the money you can put in, the conditions on the sale you’d put in (i.e. right of inspection and refusal of the sale if it isn’t what it seems, closing times etc). A good offer can have more of the former or more of the latter- for example waiving inspections can help make a sale even if you can’t compete on money but comes with more risk. In the bay, sellers often pay for inspections before listing.
No matter what, you’ll need some money for fixes/upgrades in the first year.
Good luck!
We bought in Orinda in 2022 but looked all over the East Bay. Our agent was AMAZING. Diane Dwyer at Compass. Cannot recommend her enough. She walked us through the whole process and was incredibly knowledgeable and patient. It was a long search – we lost multiple offers, including to all-cash bids (we have a mortgage) – but it worked out in the end and we love our home.
+1 to compass
Can anyone recommend a family therapist in the Philly area who specializes in or at least has experience with high net worth families, dealing with money influencing, relationships, etc? TIA!
What qualifies as a high net worth family?
If you have to ask.
Are we talking $2M? $20M?
As someone in the $2M range, I can say that $2M is definitely not it.
Hahahahaha, way north of those numbers.
So what’s the baseline figure, then? (The vibe of these comments is so weird and gatekeep-y?)
Agreed – cannot stand the gatekeeper vibes here. All it tells me is that this individual is new money, if that.
What makes you think new money? My grandma is old money worth about 500M and she makes that money work to manipulate the family.
This is the OP. Assume in the $100-200m range.
I don’t think it’s really gate-keeping to say $2M isn’t high net worth in the sense that financial advisors use that term. I have to admit that made me laugh when I read it. My husband and I are only 40, work academic jobs that don’t pay that much, and we have almost $2M in savings. It would never occur to describe us as a high net worth family with special needs due to how much money we have.
What’s “gatekeepey” is the statement that if you have to ask you shouldn’t get to know, not that statement that $2M doesn’t qualify.
Is that relevant for the question about a therapist?
A therapist who has insight into the financial dynamics of HNW or UHNW families is going to better understand the unique environment that much money creates.
Honestly, I would suggest working the family office network for consultant recommendations who work with that crowd rather than trying to find a therapist, at least if this is for the larger family rather than an individual.
I’d look for a therapist who is a Union League and/or Assemblies member.
What are some companies that sell good quality wool? I have a couple 100% handmade wool scarves that I bought from like farmers knitting their own wool and you can tell how much better quality they are than anything else. Anywhere I can get that quality without having to be at a farm?
2 of them are alpaca wool, and they are soooo warm
Pendleton in Washington state still weaves/knits their own. There are several weavers on the British Isles whose names escape me. You’ll pay absolute top dollar, though. It’s one thing to buy an alpaca scarf at a local fair, it’s another to try to buy clothing.
(Btw, many times those local farmers are sending their wool off to a local cooperative that mixes the wool together from many farms and turns it into yarn and then weaves it for all of them, so that they can come together and each make a little money at fall festivals, etc. That’s the tale of my alpaca ear warmer :) )
I use the alpaca scarves so much I think its worth buying 1 good, expensive sweater. It does get cold enough here to warrant that.
Come to think of it, the alpaca farmers at my local fairs and festivals do sell sweaters, though I think I recall that they’re made in South America of South American alpaca yarns because the local operations don’t produce that much yarn. Hey, an excuse to visit more festivals to find the sweater-selling farms!
Check out Peruvian Connection. They used to have a store in NY, not sure if it’s still open but can also order online.
(Pendleton is in Oregon state) :)
Many small makers on Etsy have amazing wool products.
I have a bunch of Eileen Fisher alpaca/wool pieces (coats, sweater, scarves) and they are awesome. All look near-new and some are decades old.
Highly recommend Scottish Textiles Showcase. https://scottishtextilesshowcase.com/
Check for fiber festivals in your area, and browse any booth/vendor lists from prior events to see who might be near you. Look up fiber arts guilds near you, too, and see what info you can find about their members.
Alpacas of Montana is the second-largest alpaca product producer in the U.S. Their stuff is beautiful. They source their alpaca from the U.S. as well as South America. (I’ve met some of their alpacas on their alpaca farm tour and can vouch for the friendliness of their herd.) All of their products are available from their website.
Something to note: alpaca wool is a hollow fiber, part of why it is so soft and warm. However, this also means that it is not as durable as wool and needs a little extra babying to stay nice. There are plenty of blends that maintain that nice warmth/weight/softness, so don’t be scared of alpaca blended with merino wool.
I don’t actually know where to buy nice finished wool pieces, I’m a knitter and know where to buy the yarn.
Help me think through a design challenge. I have a powder room. Counter is black. Walls are BM Pale Oak. Doors, cabinets, and trim is all BM Chantilly Lace. I’d love wallpaper with some black, beige, and white in it but will that be overwhelming in a small space with no natural light? Or just on one wall (behind toilet) or opposite the door on the long wall you see when you open the door)? Maybe it is easier to have art over the toilet? I have taken down dreadful wallpaper (striped, embossed, and shiny all at the same time) before but some of the new ones (that go in fantasy spaces in magazines vs my place) seem very lovely.
If the wallpaper’s design elements aren’t huge (e.g., massive florals, etc.), I do not think a wallpaper will dwarf the space. I personally favor doing just 1 wall. There are also some high quality peel-and-stick wallpapers now that could be perfect for this small of an area, and would avoid any future headaches.
Designers talk about powder rooms as the jewel box opportunity. You can do things in there that you can’t do in other rooms. I’d go for paper on all four walls. The trick to avoiding overwhelm is watching the scale, watching the busyness of the pattern. Stripes tend to be not-overwhelming since the mind clearly understands them, if you’d like to start there.
I don’t know if you have paper sources in mind, but check out Spoonflower (like Etsy – designers design their own paper) and DesignersBest (some of the national brands).
I have a friend who has a half bath done in jungle animals, and it makes me smile every time I use it. It was a legacy from the previous owners, but I feel like a powder room is the perfect place for bold.
We had glitter fleur de lis in our sitting room. If any viewers complain about my terracotta walls, I’ll direct them to the previous listing photos.
+1 to doing a bold wallpaper. My other suggestion is to tile the walls in a fun color/pattern and then paint or wallpaper the ceiling.
Agree! I learned this early on in home ownership. Use the small, windowless powder room to go big with wallpaper. I have done this with three powder rooms now, and each of them made me smile each time I used them.
Go with Schumacher Chiang Mai dragon wallpaper and thank me later.
This one truly never gets old for me.
I don’t care for that one. But I clicked on “panels and murals” and just about had to sit and fan myself. Swoon!
This sounds like a perfect place for a cheeky toile wallpaper, with dinosaurs or aliens or something else delightful.
Katie Kime?
Lean into it! Something like these:
https://nestingwithgrace.com/small-wallpaper-bathroom-utah-ranch-home/
https://www.spoonflower.com/en/inspiration/rooms/bathroom/bathroom-wallpaper
https://www.realhomes.com/design/bathroom-wallpaper-ideas
https://www.marthastewart.com/black-bathroom-ideas-11678369
My aunt has a tiny, windowless powder room that has wainscotting painted a deep midnight black with explosively colorful sugar skull wallpaper above and on the ceiling. It is my favorite room in her house.
Just don’t use peel-and-stick. Up that close, I think it will look plasticky. I was hoping to use it as a backslpash for a coffee bar, and the samples looked and felt terrible.
I am not a fan of printed wallpaper in larger rooms but for a powder room, I think using a wallpaper on one, some, or all walls would be fine. I also like the use of wallpaper with board and batten in powder rooms if that style fits the home.
My husband and I just booked flights to Japan. Neither of us have ever been and we are just starting to plan out our trip. Does anyone have any recommendations or advice? Are travel agents worth it these days? We will be going for about two weeks in May. TIA
What are you guys interested in doing? One thing that i wasn’t quite prepared for about Japan was that it is still very much a cash culture in a lot of places.
Thanks! We have credit cards that don’t charge international fees and since we knew we were planning to book this trip eventually, I exchanged USD for YEN about a year ago. Finally getting to use it!
Also we are interested in food, temples, spas, maybe some hiking. We like to do almost everything.
Full disclosure – I’m a travel agent/advisor. If you’re staying in higher end hotels (not just uber fancy ones, the nicer Hyatts and Marriotts qualify) it’s pretty much always worth booking with a travel agent, because there’s no cost to you and we can often add perks like room upgrades, complimentary breakfast, room credits, etc.
If you want a travel agent to plan your itinerary in detail with flights, tours, dinner reservations, etc., you would normally have to pay for that, and imo Japan isn’t a place where that’s necessary unless you really hate doing that kind of planning.
Enjoy! Japan is incredible.
We planned trips to Italy and Costa Rica on our own so I don’t think we need a travel agents to plan everything but perks and upgrades would be amazing! Technically this is our honeymoon even though we got married in the fall.
Congrats!
I’ve been to Japan twice, self-planned trips both times. YMMV as your flights are already booked, but if you’re going in May I would strongly encourage you to avoid the domestically busy Golden Week (April 29-May 6) or, if unavoidable, try to hit up some less touristy spots then. If you plan on taking public transit in the Tokyo area, I’d also recommend getting the tourist-specific Suica card – I think it’s called the Welcome Suica. And if you’re interested in seeing lots of temples and shrines, I would advise that you space them out as temple fatigue is real!
We lab in Japan on May 7! I’m so glad we avoided Golden week.
Land!
There are a lot of different types of workshops you can do/experience to learn about how to do/make traditional Japanese crafts. From paper to knife making.
When I was there years ago I got private guides from Tours by Locals and they were outstanding. Very much worth it, given that the language issues are more challenging than, say, Europe.
Oh fun!! I was in Japan for two weeks in the fall. Here’s what I wish I knew ahead of time:
– You can order regular taxis through Uber. This was clutch, because otherwise it was a struggle to communicate where we were going to taxi drivers, even with google maps
– It is SO HUMID
– I took a japanese class before I went, and my teacher drilled into us that thank you is arigato gozaimasu. Arigato without the gozaimasu is rude, I always cringed when I heard other tourists using it.
– there were so many other tourists there. Especially in Kyoto. Believe people when they tell you to go early to popular sites!
– Stay at a ryokan for one night– incredible experience but more than one night would have been too much
– Check out smaller cities besides Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka. I did a few days in Hiroshima and loved it, made me wish I went even farther out. Less touristy, more to explore. I bought my favorite items from the trip in Hiroshima (a knife from the sweetest older couple, and the best thrifting finds of my life)!
Is it going to be very humid in May? We don’t have kids so we avoid traveling in June, July and August and I hope it’s not too bad in May.
ChatGPT does this thing beautifully in my experience. I prompted it for 10 days in Italy with a few cities and that we were interested in wine and it gave me a whole itinerary.
I saw a woman in a beautiful teal wrap coat (is that a thing?). It looked like a felted or boucle material that was on the thinner side and without a lining. No zippers or buttons that I could see.
I’m recently postpartum. I still overheat easily and all my winter coats are just too hot. I’d like a topper with the look of a winter coat so I don’t look like a crazy person running around in sub-freezing temps with a denim jacket. And I’d also like it to be forgiving through the bust and belly. The coat I saw looked perfect, I’m kicking myself for not stopping the woman to ask where she got it. Any thoughts on where I could get a dupe?
Was it the Ted Baker coat? The teal is an older colorway but there are lots of options online. Otherwise this seems like a great time to search Quince.
Maybe the Reiss Odette coat, available in teal at Nordstrom?
Most likely the Mackage Double Face Wool Wrap coat. It comes in a bunch of colors.
Yes, it’s a thing! You can get wrap coats in all price bracets, from H&M or Zara to Max Mara.
I know this comes up as a topic frequently so thought I’d share this with the group – my husband and I are both relatively high earners in a VHCOL area. He’s in big finance and outearned me for most of his career. He took a role in a start-up last year and was just let go due to their last round of funding not coming through. We have two kids (tween/teen) and I’ve worked their entire lives despite family/social connections encouraging me to ‘step back’ as my husband made a good salary and I didn’t ‘need’ to work.
I outearned him for the last two years (RSUs never matured and base comp was a big cut) and my job supplies our insurance. My salary covers all our expenses so aside from cutting back on discretionary stuff (clothing, vacations, etc.) our lives will not change aside from slightly lower 529/retirement contributions for a bit. I can only imagine how catastrophic it would be if I had stopped working a decade ago.
Yes and no on the catastrophic point – he probably wouldn’t have gone for a start-up job if you were a SAHM. But your overall point is very true – that your working life provides essential and significant value to your family.
Fair point. I was burned by a start up in the early 2000s and vowed never again. He’d been in corporate America for his entire career and was itching to do something different but would not have gone this risky without my role as a backstop.
I have been this person in our relationship, and have thanked our lucky stars so many times that I was. I take tremendous pride in providing for my family and for freeing DH up from corporate America – where he just was not a great fit – to pursue a more enterprenurial path. I’ve provided good salary and great benefits and now as we approach retirement, a solid financial footing. I’ve counseled many, many women who are considering leave the workforce to please, please keep a foot in the door – keep their earning power up – b/c I did go part time early in my career, and then was able to move back into FT without missing a beat and while keeping earning power intact. Am so so grateful for the foresight because I don’t know what retirement would have looked like without it.
I’m in my mid-40s and my moms who were SAHMs are now feeling the pain of not having worked outside the home for many years. They are panicking about retirement, and frankly, their husbands do well enough but not amazing enough (imo) to fully fund two people’s retirements. Being a working mom is hard, and there have been many times when I’ve wanted to quit it all, but I’m glad I haven’t. Honestly, my marriage is a lot more balanced because we both are contributing, too.
Working part time is honestly the dream. SAHM sounds both financially precarious and honestly a little boring. Working full time is exhausting and I feel like I’m falling at both my career and parenting. Alas, the need for health insurance…
Like the poster above, I’m around 45 and living in the suburbs with a mix of working/SAHM/PT-very-step-backed friends, and have seen several divorces among friends now. It’s obviously never easy, but I think the power imbalance of being fully SAH can be a real stress on both marriage and divorce. In my circle, I’ve seen SAHMs onboard into a role, establish themselves, and then initiate divorce proceedings over a period of years, and I’ve seen others having to put up with crummy husband/dad behavior because what else are you going to do?
But if she didn’t keep working, neither of them would have options. And the catastrophe can happen easily in an established company too. OPs point is spot on.
Thanks for this post. I am you 15 years ago. I am so over working with a toddler while pregnant with my second, especially when sometimes it feels pointless given my husband’s salary. I am constantly telling myself it will be worth it to hang on to my career and push through this phase of life and it’s nice to hear a motivational story.
Not the OP but I will never forget living this as a teenager. I was in college and my brother in HS when my dad lost his job. I suddenly had to take out much bigger student loans, and my brother’s choices of colleges narrowed to public only unless he also wanted sizeable loans. My mom’s public servant salary (and great insurance/pension) was what kept them afloat until my dad found another job (for a BIG salary cut as he was in his mid-50s). The early 2000s were not as rosy as instagram seems to think.
How much do you have invested and how much do you spend? I think mini sabbaticals can be very reasonable if you have investments that exceed, say, 15x annual expenses and two working adults.
This. I’m not sure about exact numbers, but there is a ratio of wealth to expenses where it can make a ton of sense to stop working if you want to stop working to have more time for one’s kids.
Most people aren’t going to achieve a comfortable level of wealth when their kids are still young that they could weather losing their spouse’s income and float the considerable length of time it could take to get a new job and then subsidize their lower earnings (due to years out of the workforce) with savings. But, for people who are both wealthy enough and spend little enough, it is a reasonable path.
I think the bigger issue is trying to step back in. Different industries are more competitive, but tech changes, networks are smaller and weaker, and work samples and successes become dated the longer you are out. It’s not the immediate spending that’s the issue so much as long-term viability in the desired career and overall earnings. Sooner than you expect age becomes an issue to getting hired and growth. Peak career mobility years.
I have teens and tweens now and have worked the whole time. The early years are HARD on working moms. It feels hard because it is hard physically, mentally, and emotionally. I struggled pretty hard with PPA that was likely exacerbated by working.
Although my career hasn’t been all sunshine and roses, I am SO GLAD that I stayed in the game. I commented above, but DH and I are now in our mid- to late 40s. We are financially secure. I do not worry about retirement. We will be able to contribute to our kids’ college educations in a meaningful way (what that looks like specifically remains to be seen). If my kids want to do an activity, we can talk about whether the logistics work for us, but the financial part is far less stressful than it could be.
If I’d quit, I guarantee that we’d be financially more stressed. Also, DH’s salary has risen a lot since we started having kids. It wasn’t even feasible for me to quit during those early years. Now, arguably, it would be, but I carry the insurance for our family.
I will also say that marriage feels a lot more equitable than many of my friends’ marriages at the same stage. The years with babies, toddlers, and preschoolers were definitely harder on me than my DH, but it has evened out over time.
You can do this!
If you guys had saved even 50% of his salary all along, you’d both be retired by now. I’m not understanding where all of his salary has been going if your salary covers everything you need to live?
My salary NOW covers everything, I wasn’t making this much right out of the gate in my 20s/30s or even 40s!
Also, see VHCOL area – our combined salaries have allowed us to pay for 2 kids in daycare, after school care, summer camps, pay off student loans, buy cars outright, aggressively pay down our mortgages, save for college, etc.
You would not have paid for daycare or after school care or really probably summer camps if you were a SAHM or he was a SAHD, and those are very sizable expenses in VHCOL areas! But I hear you. We’re also in a VHCOL area and housing is more than half our annual spend. And taxes take a huge chunk of our income, but we wouldn’t make as much without living here.
We also are pay cash for cars and pay off student loans aggressively people! It really helps with career bumps to have more flexibility each month (we also have done failed startups!).
Daycare and afterschool care, no, but every SAHM I know pays for summer camp. I’m not working currently (semi-voluntarily) and it was not even a question in my mind that we would do a full slate of summer camps this summer. Kids have interests they want to pursue and want to see their friends, and it’s not healthy for my kids or me for us to be together 24/7.
but I think there is a difference between 1-2 camps in summer so your kid can have fun, vs arranging childcare the entire summer because both parents are working.
I’m the person who’s not working now and said my kids are doing camp, and they are doing a camp every week, minus our vacations. This is highly dependent on kid personalty. Some do well with a lot of downtime at home but many, including mine, do not. My kids would go absolutely crazy if they only had 1-2 camps during their 12 week summer break.
We do summer activities, for sure, but not very many all day camps, and they’re definitely not every week. Your kids are older than mine, so maybe I’ll feel differently in high school. I think we spend about $1000/summer/kid on activities; I’m guessing you are at multiples of that.
Anon 12:34
When do the kids learn to entertain themselves?
Yup. And always have your own money.
My family was in a similar financial position and people often questioned why I continued working. Then we experienced a catastrophic financial loss (criminal activity involved) about a dozen years ago. My lower-earning but still well-compensated job has made all the difference in our ability to put our kids through college and grad school and prepare for retirement. I am so, so happy that I gutted through the hard years with kids and the work/life balance.
As someone whose high-earning husband got cancer and had to stop working completely, I have never been so grateful I have a career that pays our bills (and provides health insurance). You never know what’s coming next.
Yes. This is something you don’t necessarily think about when you’re in your 20s and 30s, but it becomes increasingly more common in middle age. And it’s terrifying because you can’t plan for that.
Sing it! I remember when I was a young working mom I used to think wistfully about being a SAHM or taking a low-paid job, but I stuck it out and holy guacamole I was/am so glad I did! Women: You need to be able to support yourselves and your children. Full stop.
Yup. Stuff happens, and a job is the best way to give yourself a safety net. Even if you think it won’t need it.
Thank you for this post! I have four kids 10 and under and I am TIRED. DH started his own company a year ago, so we are on my insurance and I am definitely enabling this to happen. Which I am proud of. But I do hope it’s a big success and maybe I’ll get a chance to slow down for a bit in a few years. This is a reminder that maybe not doing that would not be a bad thing!
My kids go to private school and there are a lot of SAHMs. I had a woman ask me by the pool one day “so why DO you have a job?” But in a nice way?! I have a job because it’s important to my family! But my job is not particularly fun and I’m in the office five days a week so there are definitely trade offs.
We see you, girl. You’re doing an important thing for your family.
Fun (or not-so-fun) fact: I divorced my first husband when my kid was in first grade. I wish I had a nickel for all the SAHMs who sidled up to me in the private school parking lot and said “OMG I’d love to be doing what you’re doing but I can’t afford to leave my bad marriage!”
I was you 10 years ago except I have 3 children.
Definitely keep at it. The best thing I did was continue working. There were times when I wanted to step back. I did go part time for a short time but it didn’t help. I just made 20% less money for 5% less work.
My now ex husband was changed by the wealth and a mid life crisis. Being able to remove myself from his foolery is a huge privilege that I wouldn’t have had if I had stopped working. I’m so thankful to the women who went before me and paved the way for this to be possible.
What does one do here?
My family and I ordered delivery last week, directly from a cafe’s webs*te. This was redirected to DoorDash, however, and we were charged a $5.99 delivery fee in addition to the tip. It was not super clear that this was happening when we were ordering but whatever, fine. DoorDash delivered quickly but some of our food was missing. When we tried to contact the restaurant by phone, no one picked up. We called many times. DoorDash is saying this is not their issue as they are just the courier and order wasn’t through their app/s*te.
What do we do at this point? It’s one thing that we basically didn’t get our full dinner and someone had to forgo their order. But I don’t want to pay for something we didn’t receive. I’ve called 20-ish times over two days with no luck. Stopping by in person wouldn’t be easy as it would be a 20-25 min walk in a direction opposite from my regular commute to work. Should I just dispute the entire charge? This feels a bit wrong b/c we did get some food but my credit card company doesn’t allow me to just selective pay part of the charge.
Also, boy do I hate the lack of human contact these days! This would never have been an issue in the before times. I really hate apps and wish they werent the only way to get food delivered.
I would dispute the whole charge since you already tried multiple times to contact them. They can FAFO.
Dispute the charge. Could be a ghost kitchen.
Dispute the charge. You’ve already tried to contact the company to make it right directly and they’re made it impossible to do so.
Another vote to dispute the charge.
Calling 20 times is an insane use of your one precious life. Call twice and then do a chargeback if you care enough to do one.
This is harshly put, but I tend to agree with the sentiment.
When you start a charge dispute, you can’t dispute just part of the charge? I’ve definitely been able to do that when I only received a partial order, but I’m not sure whether you’re saying your card won’t let you do that or if you just can’t only pay part of the charge.
You did not get the items you paid for. You were charged fees that were not disclosed. The vendor is not responding. You are spending what seems like an outsized amount of mental energy on this. Just dispute the whole charge and let this go.
Nothing. Stuff like this happens. Your time and mental energy are worth more than this petty nonsense.
Yep. So this. And never order from them again. Leave a Yelp review
does anyone have a fun dancey type workout app that is fun and not high impact? i already do strength training and am just looking to add more fun movement… my music tastes are very “aerobics class,” bummed there isn’t really anything by me in person except jazzercise. i did like the music during les mills, that sort of “euro rave at 3 am” kind of vibe. :D
Les Mills has on-line workouts.
I always liked their Body Combat and step aerobics but don’t want to do either right now — is there anything that’s just floor work dancey in their lineup? want a lower chance of twisting my ankle
It has been a while since I’ve done Les Mills but I think I remember them having a dance class called Body Jam or something similar.
EmkFit on Youtube has 20-25 minute videos that are super dance/good time vibes. It’s HITT based, but she usually offers the low impact version.
I love EmkFit! An hour class is hard to schedule but 25 minutes is (usually) doable.
Tons of these on YouTube! I am not a dancey person but someone here recommended the Fitness Marshall while I was recovering from an ankle injury because he had chair workouts, and some of his content might suit you. If not, I recall YouTube recommending lots of other similar videos in the side bar.
It’s not an entire app but Rebecca Kennedy does low-impact cardio workouts in the Peloton app (relatively cheap, I think $14/month?) that have a lot of fun Jane Fonda-esque 90s aerobics moves (grapevine!!). I do them every once in a while and they’re always a mood boost.
If you have a friend with a full Peloton account, ask if they will add you for just app access. Or at least send you a link for a 60-day trial period.
If you have a friend with a full Peloton account, ask if they will add you for just app access. Or at least send you a link for a 60-day trial period.
I love sculpt society with Megan Roup. They have a billion workouts and many of them are dance cardo.
Obe Fitness app, or 305 Fitness on YouTube
I love WERQ! They have free YouTube classes and lots of availability all over, so see if there are any offerings near you. Definitely prefer to dance IRL in person if possible—the energy in the room is the best!
wii just dance is another option.
My partner has been ignoring me for 5 hours, I don’t need to cook dinner for him tonight, right? I can order myself take out and he can come home to nothing.
(Because someone will ask we both earn equally and work).
Ignoring you while he’s at work? Ignoring you about making dinner? Do you have an anxious attachment style? What is so urgent that you need responses RIGHT NOW during the workday? Need more context here.
I mean–maybe your partner is working, during work hours and hasn’t checked his phone. Why escalate this?
Just make enough dinner for 2, and if he is home, he has some, and if he isn’t, he doesn’t. When you finally reconnect, you can use your words tonight and say, “honey, when you didn’t answer me it made me feel…..”. No need to be petty. Adults can not answer their phones and this is valid if they’re doing something else like working hard, at work.
“he can come home to nothing” seems weirdly hostile, but I think it’s fine to order takeout if you don’t feel like cooking. I would ask him want he wants from the takeout place though…
You probably like your partner, though. Unclear if this poster does.
You are already planning not to make him dinner? What time is it where you are? Probably need to chill…
Huh? What does earning equally have to do with anything? I do not tolerate silent treatment in my relationships, no matter who is earning what.
Agree. The Silent Treatment is an absolute dealbreaker for me. So if that’s what he’s doing, at a minimum you are excused from dinner duty.
It sounds like he’s just busy? I’m not sure where people are getting Silent Treatment from not immediately responding during the work day…
It’s the silent treatment, he has a job with looooots of down time. The type of job where actual emergencies are on the news so he’s not busy. Though I’m sure if I asked what takeout he wanted I would get a reply inseconds, but no other question would yield a response.
I read “intentional” into “ignoring.” If I’m wrong, then obviously OP needs to chill. I wouldn’t expect my partner to be instantly available during the work day so if this is what’s going on, then…
Girl, break up. You hate this guy.
OP, DTMFA. You don’t like him, and he doesn’t like you.
Of course, but what is your end goal here? To stick it to your partner or to take steps to foster a healthy relationship?
Ignoring you while at work? Is that not standard behavior?
Sounds like two children who are cohabitating more than two adults who are partnered.
Look, if there’s any chance you’re hangry, get yourself the takeout *right now* and drink a glass of water. Take a nice walk outside.
Then, when you’re both feeling good, have a bigger picture “hey, I want to simplify our dinner planning so it’s not a every-day decision” or “hey, I’m having trouble making plans for evenings – like last evening, I was waiting on you before I could respond to my friend’s invitation. I’d propose we blah blah blah whatever”. If your partner isn’t someone you can have those conversations with, then you have a bigger issue.
Girl we’re going to need some more context here.
But if you don’t feel like cooking then don’t. Order something for him too.
Lol this. It is the middle of the work day, I am not sure you can demand immediate responses unless there is a true emergency. Yes, my husband generally replies to me when he is working, but there have certainly been times when he hasn’t replied for hours because he is in fact working.
Did you text him with an urgent question? Or did you send him a random text that he didn’t reply to? Did you have a fight this morning and he said he doesn’t want to talk to you?
Feels petty, but such is your right. Do you, girl.
You both sound like petty teenagers. Either grow up (both of you) or break up.
If he behaves like a child he gets treated like a child.
I’d make him dinner. My meal for this type of behavior was vegetable lasagna. He hated it. We are divorced which wasn’t a bad outcome.
Yes my behavior was petty but it was worth it.
Have any of you changed careers after age 40 or so? Have you researched fallback options in case your current role flames out? How do you go about doing this?
It’s hard to know what will happen in the coming years with technology changes, but I worry there may be less demand for my skillset in the future because of AI, so I would be looking for a fallback plan.
Even if AI really does replace your current skills, there will be a small army of consultants needed to help companies select and transition to the appropriate tool and train their employees to use it in whatever field you are in. A good example of this is the Salesforce business model, but I’m sure if you think about your industry you can see other examples of this.
Yep, I was in higher ed finance, got bored and hated supervising people so went back to school for a masters in computer science at age 45. I went back on a fellowship, and now work in my field, making a bit more than I used to as an individual contributor. I keep my resume sharp, my personal expenses low and stay ready for thr next thing. With the chaos of this administration and own-goal instability at the federal level, who knows what’s next. Hopefully my job is safe, but who knows. I can support myself for a while working at a grocery store or whatever if need be.
I am intrigued!
It was serious type 2 fun. I enjoyed pushing myself intellectually. A computer science degree is fundamentally an applied math degree, so if that appeals to you, check it out!
I have. It was burned out then sort of pushed out/fell out of my previous industry. I took some time trying to transition into something more passion project oriented but that was difficult and the pandemic hit and I fell into my now current field, based on some other strong interests and which has loose ties to my original area, and it’s been hard but also good.
My husband changed careers after 40. He was in the military for over 20 years and didn’t want to keep doing what he had been doing once he retired from service. He’s in another pensioned government role now doing something completely different.
For those of us that are already working, I’m not sure that AI is going to replace our jobs. It’ll be a few more years before it’s capable of replacing anyone’s job. And by then we’ll be the managers or whatever of the AI instead of people. The more important thing, I think, is to be conversant in AI relevant to your field so you can use it. Don’t be like the partners who are still looking at hard copy books because they can’t figure out Westlaw.
My husband changed careers (engineering to law) many years ago,. Went to law school at night, asked the big public utility he was working for as an engineer if they’d hire him as a lawyer, when they said “no” ( see “went to law school at night,” above), he quit and hung out his shingle and did very well. Initially he traded legal work for office space, and his wife kept working and provided insurance, so that eased the transition quite a bit.