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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
GOT Emmy nods
I just wanted to note that Emilia Clarke did a lot of her work in a room on a green screen. No helpful dragons to act opposite of and rehearse with.
Also, nice of Lena Heady to get nominated for drinking wine and smirking. She has a strong game for each of those.
Anonymous
I love that GC nominated herself. She’s my new poster girl for knowing your worth. She was miles ahead of Lena IMHO.
Anonymous
Yes — Brienne is my spirit animal. I was a giant as a child and just lived that life (dirty, in the woods, fighting with boys and winning) [As a kid, I think size is destiny, at least until the boys hit puberty and catch up.]
Lena is fierce in a different way.
Vicky Austin
GC is an icon.
Anonymous
All respect to Lena Headey but she didn’t do anything last season that required any real acting skill, and I don’t think she deserved the nomination. I love that Gwendolyn Christie nominated herself but find it baffling that HBO didn’t want to nominate her? What is that about?
Anonymous
IDK. Lena should just get a category for “Drinking in a Dramatic Series”. She IS great at it.
Varys and Littlefinger — what about them? And The Hound?
Gail the Goldfish
Total guess, but I wonder if they didn’t want to split the votes among too many GOT actors so it was more likely one would win? I also haven’t decided how they picked lead vs. supporting. There really needs to be a separate category for just “best cast.”
Seventh Sister
It’s probably at least partially a financial decision – the studios then “have” to run campaigns for nominees, and I’m sure there is a bunch of office politics-type stuff over who gets more/bigger ads, shows up on late night shows, etc. Also I wouldn’t put it past the Powers That Be @ HBO to be a bunch of guys who are slightly ruder versions of the agent from Entourage, so only interested in the women they perceive as “the hot ones,” and all the douches I know who watch GOT seem to think Headey, Clarke, and Turner are the only attractive women on the show (SO NOT TRUE, I hate guys like that).
Seventh Sister
Sorry for the run on sentence, it’s early.
Seventh Sister
I think it’s a nomination for drinking wine, smirking, and wearing a terrible wig.
But Brienne is my forever favorite.
Athleta cosmic blazer?
Is the Athleta cosmic blazer worth the $198?
Fwiw I work in a “business casual” leaning casual (jeans are ok everyday) non-profit office. Not a lawyer but I do have some gov regulatory meetings.
In other news, the Athleta semi annual sale is on! The cosmic blazer isn’t on sale but I’m definitely picking up some new sports bras!
Anonymous
Oh man, I just bought a bunch of new sports bras from them last month. Didn’t know that had a semi-annual sale. Guess I could go buy a few more, because anything that lets me put off laundry longer…
Triangle Pose
I love mine but got it on sale for $158, not sure I’d pay $198 for it. I’m a lawyer and I wear it fairly often over sleeveless pencil dresses in the summer in case I need to present/run a meeting unexpectedly. Cooler in the summer than my J. Crew Going out blazers.
Anon
Ooh thanks for the heads up on the sale! I’ve been debating some leggings, but if they’re on sale I’m definitely going to buy!
anon
A supervisor called me at home and yelled at me this week. He was frustrated that I asked for a specific project, was told no, and asked again a week later. I had to leave dinner with my partner because he could hear my supervisor yelling at me through the phone. Am I overreacting to think that this is a big deal? I’d be more inclined to let it go if this were a particularly high-stakes issue, but it truly isn’t. And this is not a yelling-friendly office — this is outside the norm, which is why I’m thrown off.
And what’s the best way to handle if/when he addresses it, hopefully to apologize? I’m trying to progress beyond being a pushover at work and to begin asking for things and saying no to others. Brave new world. I don’t want to overdo it, but I don’t want to say oh, it’s fine, we’re all good, when I actually felt really disrespected and embarrassed. I’ve worked for a lot of bosses and have never been yelled at like that. Help.
Anonymous
“What am I supposed to think after you called me like that at dinner?”
Then let them do the talking.
FWIW, unless someone is dying, I don’t pick up calls during meals. It’s rare that anyone would even call my cell (I don’t give out the # at work), so I just glace to see who it is and can call them back. [Unexpected call from parents or a sitter: I pick up immediately; otherwise no.]
Anon
Strongly disagree with you using this line or anything close to it.
780
That is not an appropriate response to your supervisor, regardless of how inappropriate his yelling was. And, for what it’s worth, depending on what the yelling actually consisted of, I’m not sure that is an inappropriate response to you ignoring his no and trying to get on the project again just one week later.
Anonymous
I think he is not apologizing to you for this and is expecting you to apologize for trying to get on a project after he said no. You may not think that is reasonable, I don’t, but it is obviously his position. And a sign it’s time to job hunt.
Anonymous
Hmm…If this is otherwise a non-yelling office and my supervisor has otherwise been a reasonable person, I’d be wondering how bad I messed up in continuing to try to get on a project where I’d been told no. Did supervisor get yelled at because OP stepped on toes? So, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the supervisor to expect an apology, absent other context. Even if the yelling was not the professional way for going about it.
However, it may mean time to job hunt if this is a blunder that OP can’t come back from.
anon for this
+1 – you know your office better than I do, obviously, but based on my experience of unreasonable bosses, I would be quite surprised if he apologizes to you for this incident.
Anonymous
Send yourself an email at your private address to document what happened in case this escalates. Pre-plan what you will say if he apologizes. Don’t go with ‘it’s okay’. Something like “Thank you for the apology. The call was very uncomfortable and I appreciate your apology.”
When you’re not assigned a project, ask for it and are told no, accept it.
nona
The yelling was wrong…but asking again when you’ve already been told no is bad form. You are both in the wrong – so when you boss apologizes for the yelling, you apologize for pushing the issue. You asked (yay!) but got told no (such is life) – you accept the no and look for another project to ask for.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
I was told a long time ago that “assuming you know more than your boss about a situation is a dangerous game” and that has proven to be true. Your boss should not have called and yelled at you – that demonstrates poor emotional self-control – but I understand his frustration. Whether you want to accept this or not, there are always conversations going on between managers and between managers and upper-level management about projects and personnel that you are not privy to. I once volunteered to take on a project my boss had rejected, only to find out later she had rejected it because it was basically doomed to failure and she didn’t want to be left holding that particular bag. There’s a difference between being smartly assertive and being so politically un-astute that you sabotage your own career. The whole “I’m going to be plucky and bold like Elle Woods” thing does not work out the same way in real life as it does in the movies. I think your boss owes you an apology but I also think you owe him one, and also owe him some time listening to his side of the story. And no, this has nothing to do with gender – if your boss was female, I’d say the same thing.
Anon
I understand why you’re upset; he should not have yelled. But, as a manager one of the most frustrating things is when employees persist down a path when they’ve been told no. You don’t view it as a high stakes issue, but sometimes this feel extremely disrespectful to the manager. I would address the phone call and ask that these types of things wait until working hours and that he use a more professional tone. But, I would also apologize for pressing an issue when you had already been given a clear answer on it.
CPA Lady
It’s good to take initiative and ask for what you want. It’s not good to keep asking for the same thing after someone above you already told you no.
For a hugely emotional response like this, you should gather that this situation is probably a way bigger deal to your boss than you thought it was– did you undermine him/her when asking for the project? Did you go over his or her head after (s)he told you no already? Because if so, that is an actually big problem, and I can completely understand your boss’ frustration. Not that that makes calling you at home to yell at you okay. But you can take this as a learning experience about what really pushes your boss’ buttons.
There have been situations I’ve been in where I didn’t know the whole picture and ended up really angering my grand-boss, complete with yelling etc. (Grand-boss is a known yeller though, so it’s not out of character for her). I had made an off-hand comment to a client that I had no idea of how it came off, because I didn’t know the client’s entire picture in same way my grand-boss did. It seemed like a minor issue at the time, but in retrospect I completely understand why the client was upset and my grand boss got so angry. We all make mistakes, and it’s just part of life to learn how to deal with them.
Anon
That is not an appropriate way for him to behave. Email HR and cc your private email.
Anonymous
This is not good advice
Anon
Screaming at someone at home is 100% inappropriate.
Anonymous
And that doesn’t make your advice good.
Anon
That really depends on the office, and what the problem was.
Anon
Emailing HR is a way overreaction and will just further ruin OP’s relationship with her boss, especially since it is clear that this started with the OP messing up. Yelling may be inappropriate (depending on the office), but may not be surprising if the OP went over her boss’s head after getting told no.
Anon
Oh get over yourself. The OP’s “mess up” may have been entirely minor or understandable, but it is literally her manager’s JOB to handle those things in a professional manner. He is literally paid more to react reasonably and professionally. If he can’t handle that, he needs to not have direct reports.
anon
Oh, I’m sure OP can take comfort in the fact that he shouldn’t have direct reports when she’s being let go and has to look for a new job. “Being right” doesn’t pay bills.
Anon
Okay, Anon @ 10:43, you really have to stop giving advice based on how the world *should* be instead of how the world actually is.
Irish Midori
Yelling is ALWAYS inappropriate. Especially a boss yelling at a subordinate. Especially especially a male boss yelling at a female subordinate. Not necessarily saying running straight to HR on first offense is wise under the circumstances, but in no way was it okay for him to do that.
Anon0321
HR never helps the individual employees, they are there to protect the company- keep that in mind if you decide to go to HR (fwiw I wouldn’t). If your boss is otherwise decent, just let this uncomfortable situation slide (it’s more about them than you).
If it becomes a more common occurrence, look for a new job.
Anonymous
Absolutely do NOT do this.
HR isn’t mom. HR is there to protect the company. If you’re gong to do that over a minor thing that was outside the norm, you’re never going to have the same trusted relationship with that boss (and likely others above him or her) again.
Anon
OMG, the HR thing again. That’s not how professional adults handle 99% of the conflicts in their career.
Anonymous
I would not further escalate this. So do not email HR. That’s not going to help you in any way.
If you mess up, you can get yelled at. It will be upsetting and throw you off for a day or so. I suggest taking a step back and thinking about what when wrong, what you could have done differently, what you will do differently in the future.
At an appropriate time in the next couple days (suggest 1-2) when you’ve emotionally distanced yourself enough to view this as not a personal attack but as work related criticism and feedback (perhaps poorly delivered), then offer a simple apology and state a specific action plan in the future. Eg “I apologize for pushing such and such issue. In the future, I will check in with you / get your thoughts on xyz or whatever”. Do not expect or ask for an apology back. I would not mention the phone call / dinner.
Your response to this will be viewed as how you respond to feedback. Do you improve or do you seethe and escalate?
Your supervisor’s behavior is his own problem… it will come back and bite him if this is how he manages. I don’t believe it will reflect positively on you if you give him feedback on yelling and calling you during your dinner.
Ellen
From your note, I take it you are a newbie to the working world. Well guess what? Life has it’s moments and this is one for you and your partner to deal with. You can’t expect everyone to love everything you do all the time and there will be times that you — yes you — will also say and do things that you wish you did not. But you will; we all will; we are human, and that sometimes means rubbing people the wrong way. So you have got to learn not to take things so personally and EXPECT an apology b/c you feel your feelings were hurt. You can’t get everything you want in life; wouldn’t that be fun? But you are an employee, at WORK, and in case you did not already know it, WORK is a 4 letter word! So pull your chin up and take it, like any other smart Corporette. Your partner already knows you are not perfect, and for what it is worth, neither is he! YAY!
Anonymous
You screwed up and your boss let you know that you did. He might not have done it an appropriate way, but that is his prerogative. You shouldn’t be thinking about how to give him feedback on calling on at dinner, but reflecting on how you mis-read the situation about the project assignment in the first place. My only take away from this might be to ask him for more feedback about your error–however, it depends on your boss. Best thing might be to ignore and be on your best behavior from here on out.
Marie
I would suggest meeting with him to “clear the air” and opening by telling him you were taken aback by his call and want to discuss the situation. Calling you at home and yelling at you was wrong, but if this is seriously out of character behavior, you need to address his concerns. Assuming you want to be able to continue working with him, you both need to be on the same page about steps moving forward and what damage control can be done to move past this.
Anonymous
i’m concerned that someone who asked again after being told no does not have an appropriate level of EQ to handle this convo. She got yelled at, needs to move on and not do something like this again. The fact that she was holding this up as “progress[ing] beyond being a pushover at work” is not great.
This is not to say that the boss’s response was appropriate, because calling your subordinate at home and yelling is not professional at all.
Anon
+1 and the fact that she’s asking for advice on how to accept an apology . . . which is very likely NOT coming
Never too many shoes...
If you want to continue working where you are, this is sensible advice.
OP
OP here. Thanks for all the helpful comments; I appreciate the feedback. Filling in some details: I brought in some business and said I’d like to be assigned to it; he said that won’t work until you clear things off your plate; a week later the person who contacted me reached out again and asked what was happening; I emailed my boss (the same boss, no advancing to a higher-level supervisor) and said that I think I do have room on my plate based on what’s happening in X, Y, and Z matters that are wrapping up in the next week or two.
Anonymous
Sounds like you’re missing something about your current performance that your boss is unhappy with or doesn’t trust you on.
Also, face to face conversations are best for negotiations/follow up like this, not email. If I was your boss, what was I supposed respond with? Yes sure you can have it because you gave me such a thorough update on the status of xyz over this email that I have no follow up questions whatsoever… or… no you still can’t and I don’t want to type out the reasons why over email when I explained myself to you last week and now I’ve wasted time reading this email?
I can picture the latter train of thought leading up to a frustrated phone call.
anon
How is OP supposed to intuit that the reason he gave her for not assigning the project was actually not the real reason? If a supervisor has an issue with your performance, then they should communicate it directly and in a timely manner. That is an integral tenet of being a supervisor/manager. Employees should not be required to suss out unspoken grievances from their bosses.
Anonymous
Thanks for the helpful context, OP. It sounds like it was perfectly reasonable for you to ask again. Did you mention that the person had reached out to you again when you brought it up to your boss? Either way, I think his response was inappropriate and a big overreaction. It sounds like you may be in a law firm setting, so the HR route would not be particularly useful. I would just schedule a time to have an in-person conversation to discuss the call. In that meeting, I would give any additional context to your asking again that you may not have given in your follow-up email. I would then bring up the fact that you felt his tone/reaction was inappropriate to the circumstances and that going forward you hope that when he perceives a misstep on your part that he bring it up in person during business hours and in a way that is productive.
Anon
Don’t do this. Telling your boss that his tone was inappropriate will not go over well in any office, especially a law firm. If your in a law firm, I’m actually surprised that you said it is not a yeller-friendly office. Every law firm I know of has some people who will yell on occasion, even if that is only twice a year.
Anonymous
I’m sorry I didn’t get the memo that because I work in a law firm, I am supposed to put up with lawyers yelling at me. Since when should they not be held to the same standard as any other professional?
January
Anonymous @ 12:43 PM … this is sarcasm, right?
Anonymous
I’m sorry so many educated professional women are condoning screaming. Adults should only yell in emergencies, real emergencies not work ones.
Anon
What people are doing here is not condoning screaming. People are giving advice based on how the world actually operates, with actual, real-life outcomes in mind, not moral righteousness. No, absolutely the boss should not have called her after hours to yell at her! Going to HR or confronting him or giving him an ultimatum are not going to result in good outcomes for OP, though.
Anon
There are commenters here who are condoning the boss’ behaviour. Cut the crap.
Anon
That’s great, you can live in your prefect world. I’m going to suggest ideas that will work in the real world, where people sometimes yell even if they shouldn’t and calling out your boss for his errors is never a good idea.
Irish Midori
Not all places include yelling bosses. There are greener pastures, I promise. You don’t have to live like this.
Anon
Irish Midori is right. At my company, screaming bosses are encouraged to find other employment. That is why I commute over 100 miles a day to be here.
Anon
It wasn’t my supervisor but the manager of an adjacent department to me who called me in the evenings a few times to yell at me. She was in a client-facing sales type role, and I was in the policing/protecting the company finance role, responsible for signing off, or in this case not, on deals the sales people wanted to do. What she wanted to do didn’t make sense financially. It wasn’t personal.
But she made it personal. She called me a few times, clearly inebriated, and just laid me out. Told me I didn’t understand the mission of the company, that I was cold and a b1tch and that I didn’t understand the first thing about what she was trying to do, and that she was going over my head to my boss, and that if I kept doing what I was doing (my job) the company might as well shut the doors. SHUT THE DOORS, repeated several times for effect.
I am sorry to say that the first couple of times she did this I mainly just sat there in stunned silence and let her rant until she hung up on me.
The third time, finally, I picked up the phone and talked over her until she listened.
Me: Deborah
Her: .. and you don’t understand the first thing…
Me: DEBORAH
Her: …may as well shut the doors, shut the doors…
Me: DEBORAH!!!
Her: what?
Me: I’m hanging up. Don’t ever call me at home again.
And then I hung up.
She didn’t want to speak to me in the office for a while after that, but she also never called me at home again. She also never went to my boss.
So obviously my situation is not the same as yours, but I want to tell you that you are perfectly within your rights to shut someone down if they are being unprofessional. You can also tell your supervisor that you will talk to him at work about this but not over the phone, not on your personal time. It’s ok to have boundaries.
Rain shoes
What’s a good shoe with casual skirts/dresses for summer rainy days? Definitely open to athletic/athleisure styles, but need something cute that won’t get ruined in the rain. Ballet flats and sandals get too wet and light colored shoes aren’t good either. Not interested in boots. Any thoughts on specific items?
Anonymous
https://www.nativeshoes.com/mercury-2-0-liteknit/211069194207.html?isHideBanner=true&sz=32&start=96&cgid=womens-shoes&idx=0
I have them in black, but other colors are cute. The knit material is fairly water resistant, so they dry super quickly
Rain shoes
I love these!
Ribena
I’ve been wearing white pleather sneakers for this
Anonymous
Rothys or the crocs flats and then change at work.
anne-on
+1 – this is what my crocs flats were ideal for in gross NYC summer rainstorms. Rain plus subways plus normal NY grime = ewwwwww
Anonymous
Obligatory Rothy’s code if anyone is interested!
https://share.rothys.com/x/WPRrMB
Anon
I prefer sandals, actually, because my feet dry quicker than wearing water-logged athleisure shoes. I wear my Saltwater Sandals when it’s rainy because they’re meant for water and my feet don’t slide around too much.
Anonymous
I wear plastic birkenstocks (actually Target knock offs) and change at work.
anon in brooklyn
I usually wear leather vans slip ons or dansko clogs.
CountC
I wear Chucks – Shorelines.
NOLA
I’m addicted to Shorelines, but I like mine too much to wear them when it’s yucky out!
CountC
I put mine in the washing machine when they get gross :)
NOLA
I should probably do that with mine from previous summers, although my feet shrunk when I lost weight, so they don’t fit as well. I just still love the peachy pink eyelet pair that I’ve had for several years.
anon
I am in a dinner rut. What are your home run recipes? I hate doing meal prep on weekends and I usually make dinner when I get home around 6pm, so I need fast and easy. (sorry for the cross post)
Winners for in our house with a 2 year old and a 5 year old have been:
Soba noodles with stir-fried veggies,
Spaghetti and meatballs (frozen turkey balls from Trader Joe’s)
Cheesy Eggs with a veggie on the side
Turkey and cheese rolled up in tortillas
Black beans and rice
Naan pizza
Anon
Antipasto platter – salami, cheese, hummus, etc
Chicken sausages on a roll with veggies and fruit –Costco has good ones right now with cheddar cheese in them
Loaded mac and cheese – (loaded means I throw in some veggies)
The original Scarlett
Look up the blog Dinner a Love Story, tons of easy ideas there (I read mom blogs for dinner ideas ‘cause I’m busy too ;))
anon a mouse
This is popular in our house in the summer. We use rotisserie chicken and everything else can be prepped while the couscous cooks (~15 mins). Serve with pita chips.
https://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/couscous-salad-chicken-0
Anon
Tacos. Either shrimp (not sure if your kids eat shrimp) or meat. Takes mere minutes to saute the meat. We add avocado for healthy fat.
ATL rette
Roasted sweet potatoes/red onion/broccoli with chicken sausage—throw it all on a baking sheet in the oven at 400 for 20-25 mins or so
Crock pot bbq chicken or pork, can be eaten on sandwiches or over rice or with veggies…
Anon
Quesadillas, burrito bowls, egg wraps, egg sandwiches. I wouldn’t call these homeruns but everyone is good and they are fast.
Anon
I like to make Freshii bowl knock-offs when I need something easy. Browse the menu for a likely candidate, note the ingredients and acquire them, then put them all together at home.
Anon
Budget Bytes stir-fry cabbage and beef (optional noodles). Get pre-shredded cabbage and carrots and it’s so easy.
Rainbow Hair
We do something like this — https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/90426/tuna-pasta-salad-with-dill/ — describing it makes it sound gross but it’s tasty and our picky 4 year old inhales it. We use spiral pasta, fresh dill, diced pickles…
Anon
The new article The Epidemic of Disbelief in the Atlantic is very, very good (if sobering). It provides a lot of new information about how previously untested rape kits are changing the way we think about rapists. It’s a tough read, but I really recommend it.
On a related note, I’m a little disappointed at the current trend for Democrats to vilify prosecutors (Kamala Harris) and anyone who was ever perceived as tough on crime (Joe Biden). When I read articles like this (and when I walk alone in my city), I want to be very, very tough on crime. Are there any Democratic candidates who are more moderate on the crime issue? I’d like to do more research if there are. Honestly, sometimes I think people forget that being “soft” (for lack of a better word) on crime hurts women more than men.
Anonymous
I’m right there with you.
It’s like people have forgotten who the victims of crime are or the neighborhoods where crime is a problem. Shoot up a house? Those bullets might hit the nice granny next door who can’t afford to live elsewhere. And in the meantime she is terrified. And do you think that that neighborhood has good schools or the kids who didn’t choose to be born to parents there have a fair change of realizing their potential?
There were neighborhoods where I wanted a dog and a gun and I still woke up nervous with every loud noise in the night. I left. Glad I had the option. Not everyone does.
Anonymous
No one has forgotten. Violent crime, nation wide, has plummeted to lows not seen in generations.
anonshmanon
I just heard the latest episode of Freakonomics, exploring a surprising correlation between violent crime and legalized abortion. Highly recommend this episode.
https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/rss.art19.com/episodes/7ca34e2f-8e40-4d7c-90fb-45588e0a5e7d.mp3
Anonymous
I love Freakonomics. But is this new information or research? I thought that was a well-known correlation that was addressed in the original Freakonomics book.
Anonymous
I listened to that earlier this week. It was fascinating – particularly the idea of “wantedness” of children being such a driver for so many outcomes. It should be such a wake up call regarding not just abortion, but birth control and sex ed in general in this country.
Anon
+1 this has been known for quite a while
anonshmanon
True, it discussed a study that was published in 2001, but it was new to me and I have been thinking about it ever since. The authors have since published an update, basically saying their conclusions hold up in the light of recent data.
Anonymous
Not in certain pockets of my city. Our murder rate is way up. Yes, many people are known to each other and in the life. But the stray bullets kill innocents and what should have been a fight now often leaves children fatherless. Don’t they count?
Crime doesn’t hurt rich people the way it hurts the poor and vulnerable.
Anon
Violent crime is up in my metro area. So is non-violent. It’s been a few years of this.
Anonymous
I think the thing is, is that all of the candidates are tough on crime. Every single one. They may talk about it in different ways, but we are starting from a position of “so tough on crime we are uniquely barbaric in the world” so they’re all plenty tough enough. Untested rape kits do not exist because we are insufficiently tough on crime, they exist because we don’t treat women as people. Being tougher on crime isn’t the solution to that.
Anon
+1
lsw
+1
Anonymous
Crime is a broad category and I think different approaches are needed in different areas. We need to be softer on non-violent drug crime – more treatment/rehab focused but tougher on ‘s*xually based offences’ as Olivia Benson would say.
Anon
I’m the OP and I agree with drug decriminalization, but it hasn’t stopped there. There was a ballot initiative a few years back in CA that proposed early releasing prisoners who had been convicted of certain drug and other “non-violent offenses” – including certain sex crimes. It sounded great on paper (early release! Second chance!) until you read the fine print. It passed.
Also, there is substantial evidence that “broken windows” community management is both effective and most welcomed by poor communities. Note that I am not supporting stop and frisk, which is a perversion of the concept, but the concept of targeting low-level crimes of disorder. To use another California example, this past spring, BART conducted a fare evasion operation by placing cops at the fare turnstiles. Not only did fare evasion drop dramatically and ticket purchases rose (indicating that people did in fact have money to pay the fare), police calls from all BART stations dropped by 50%. As any woman who has ridden BART knows, that makes a huge difference.
Anon 9:29
I’m not sure I agree with decriminalization. I mean more Drug Treatment Courts that are focused and guided programs which allow non-violent drug crimes charges to be dropped if the defendant participates in rehabilitiation programs.
Cities also have a role to play in ‘broken windows’ policing. Cities are the level of govt that is so often overlooked.
Anon
Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are “tough on crime” in a way thag harms people. Do a deeper dive into the complaints against them.before dismissing them.
The Atlantic article was not a surprise. We do not think about s-xual assault in a data-driven way, and thus, tend towards asinine stereotypes. Societally, we do a terrible job of asking if the alleged perpetrator has had similar complaints made against him (which is *not* the same question as asking if he has people who like him). If eight women all say the same thing and have the same story of harassment or assault, then the guy is probably the problem.
Anonymous
Late yesterday there was a brief thread expressing frustration about a lack of funding for education on how not to assault people.
I am sure that education is needed to counter the lessons that many people learn about how to treat women, and it should be funded! But I think the problem of perpetrators who know exactly what they are doing and want to get away with it is a much bigger problem, and in their case, we probably need more education about them than education aimed at them. With recent headlines, I keep thinking of all the people whose money makes trafficking so profitable. Who are they? How can they afford this? How many of them are ever arrested?
Anon
I don’t think the vilification is about prosecutors or politicians being “tough on crime”generally. The vilification comes into play when “tough on crime” pretty much directly translates into “higher policing and violence against minority and poor communities and throwing people in private jails for absurd periods of time for low stakes and/or non-violent crime, creating a legally allowable slave labor force.” It’s what stop and frisk was founded on. No one wants a child rapist, murderer, or repeat thief to get off easy. They are specifically talking about cases like a 16 yr old boy who was charged as an adult for a personal quantity of marijuana possession and thrown in jail for several yrs, unable to finish HS or get any kind of livable job, and being thrown back into jail because he has to sell drugs to make money. Drug convictions are especially egregious on this because studies show the use of drugs are actually much lower in communities that get arrested for them more. Kamala and Biden both contributed to this horrible criminal cycle that throws peoples lives away for stuff their parents were sternly talked to about and sent home in the 70s. It’s incredibly disingenuous to gloss over this fact. Tough on crime doesn’t have to mean “lifetime punishment”but that is often the result. Our recidivism rate is insanely high because of people like them. If people want safer communities you get rid of the criminals by rehabilitating the existing ones, not throwing them in jail and sequestering them to the only places they can live – poor heavily policed communities.
Anonymous
I think something like 10% of the offenders are responsible for an outsize portion of the truly awful crime.
I’m for liberal expungement for the other 90% since that will help you get/keep a job and if you have a job, you come home tired and don’t cause trouble.
But we had a good guy, a worker and father, shot dead last week by someone with a prior for murder of a teen girl he raped. We are not tough enough on that sort of crime.
Anon
But what about when those efforts lead to ballot initiatives like the comment from Anon at 10:05 discusses? It seems like these progressive movements still aren’t hitting the right balance in many cases. Also, I frankly dgaf if a rapist spends life in prison rather than being “rehabilitated.” I’m not convinced that can ever be done for men like that.
Anon
This is completely terrifying. No wonder that black mirrors episode with chip implants for kids seemed like a real possibility.
Triangle Pose
Trying again in case more people see in the AM post. Any facial epilator recs? Looking for a true epilator, not a tinkle razor or flawless beauty rotating razor, I am looking for something that pulls the hair out at the root. Thanks in advance!
Anon
I have a Braun and like it but it is not really suited for the face unless you have tough skin – the plucking is not precise so you get red bumps. I do stripless hard wax on my face instead.
Anon
+1. I love my Braun epilator but not for the face. I have used others and honestly I don’t think there is an epilator that can compare to threading. I unfortunately have skin damage (red dot that won’t go away) from one of these experiments so I’d recommend against trying. Either use a cream or keep threading. I like Gigi cream.
Anon
https://www.amazon.com/Gigi-Hair-Removal-Cream-Calming/dp/B000U5W2FG/ref=asc_df_B000U5W2FG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312105552888&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6235785848166031754&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033312&hvtargid=pla-424802779151&psc=1
In-House in Houston
I bought this on on AmZn a few weeks ago and really like it:
Epilator for Women Facial Hair Removal Face Electric Tweeze Epilators Cordless Tweez Female Facial Hair Remover Tweezers for Bikini Area Upper lips Chin Leg
I was like you – didn’t want a razor. This works well for me and is under $25. But….Costco had a laser hair remover on sale for $50 off this week, so I think it came to $125 and so I bought that. It hasn’t come in yet, but the reviews were really good. What I don’t like is that you have to shave so that the laser kills the root. I’m not sure how I feel about shaving my face, but I guess I’ll have to give it a try. I thought for that for $125, not a huge investment if it doesn’t work out.
Triangle Pose
Thanks all!
Anonymous
Just a quick thank you- I am not going to be taking out a 401k loan to buy a house, I am going to be spending some time getting serious with the numbers, and I’ll be waiting a year or two and saving up. Really appreciate everyone who took the time to give me advice!
Anonymous
I saw the thread yesterday and still don’t really understand why it’s a bad idea to do so, everyone just said “don’t!”. I’m in DC so VHCOL. We have nothing saved for a down payment but have $250k in 401k. Why would it be bad to take $100k out– which would give us about a 15% down payment?
Anonymous
My understanding was a) until you can afford to save up at least a 5% down payment, you probably can’t afford a house, b) you have to repay within 5 years/immediately if you leave the job, so if you can’t repay it quickly that’s a real problem.
Anon
Because if you have nothing saved for a down payment, you probably also have nothing saved for home maintenance and so on. It’s also not a financially responsible choice to steal from your own retirement, especially when you have that little in the 401k (not that it’s nothing, but it’s not enough to retire on). You steal the principal and therefore steal the interest too.
Anon
I agree with the bit about not pulling from your 401K for the reasons you said, but not the other bit of it – I’m doing a physicians loan, so no down payment up to $750K loan amount, for the main reason that once we paid of my student loans, there wasn’t enough for a down payment, our regular emergency fund, and our home maintenance fund all together.
Anon
Why do you need a separate home maintenance fund? Once you’ve built yourself an emergency fund, you can pay home repairs out of that and then direct extra money to it when it gets a bit depleted. It seems silly to me to buy a house with no down payment but have a dedicated fund for home repairs.
Anon
I’m the 10:33 anon – it’s all in one bank account, so not technically a separate fund. It’s more that I just allocated what we wanted our financial position to be like after closing and all the associated costs that come with that – an emergency fund for if I lose my job, a fund for dealing with house emergencies so I don’t eat into my emergency fund if I lose my job and my water heater breaks at the same time, money for all the random costs associated with moving, etc. We’re buying not with the expectation that we’re building equity (I’m a bit skeptical of what the housing market will be when it comes time to sell), we just needed bigger space and in our location, the townhouses we could rent for our mortgage, interest, taxes, and HOA weren’t as nice as the one we’re in the process of buying. Plus, due to the physicians loan, we don’t have to pay PMI or anything for not having a down payment.
Anonymous
If you’re confused why it’s not a good idea for OP, that’s a sign you haven’t looked at the numbers carefully enough. Whether or not it’s a bad idea depends on whether you currently own a property and are basically using the 401K withdrawal as bridge financing; if you don’t own a property, whether you are able to repay the 401K within the period required, what your total annual HHI is, and your intended purchase price, and your total housing costs including taxes, utilities etc.
It was a bad idea for OP right now – it might make sense in a year, or if her HHI increases or her desired purchase price decreases. Whether it’s a good or bad idea for your situation depends on your specific financial circumstances.
Anonymous
Plus, she was talking about a 401k loan – those have to be repaid immediately if you leave your job.
RR
Technically, 60 days, but probably the same effect if you are talking tens of thousands of dollars that a person clearly did not have prior to borrowing it.
Anonymous
Because you’ll have to pay back the 401k loan in 5 years plus pay your mortgage payment. When we took out a 401k loan to buy our second home we had to start making payments on the loan within 2 weeks of the money being out of the account, and the payments were withdrawn directly from my husband’s paycheck – there was no “let’s shuffle some payments around to accommodate this.” You’re going into debt to go into debt and the combination of the debt payments can be crushing, especially if (as many people do) you end up going a bit higher than you expected on your house purchase price.
I get. When we went to buy our house last year, we had three pools of money: emergency savings, college savings for our son and our 401ks. We had done what everyone told us to do and put any extra money we had into our 401ks because we were counting on using our current house’s equity to fund the next house purchase. We had not been saving another pot of money for a down payment. What accessing our existing home equity required, and which we weren’t willing/able to do, was to sell our house first before buying the next one so we could tap the equity. For us, the 401k loan was a better, more-guaranteed option than a bridge loan that allowed us to move first and sell second (and I got some stories to tell about that, if anyone contemplating the same move wants to hear them). If we hadn’t had equity in our first home that allowed us to pay back the 401k loan in full? Forget it. There’s no way we could have handled both payments, the mortgage on the house we wanted + the 401k loan payments. We would have had to either scale way back on our house purchase price (to the point it would have not made much sense to move) or get comfortable with spending 50%+ of our monthly budget on housing-related expenses, which I would not have been okay with. Only you know your own numbers, but unless you can take the loan out and then pay it off quickly somehow (lucrative side gig, gift from parents, etc.), I would stay away from funding a first-home down payment that way.
Daisy
You can very easily get underwater on a house, and then instead of defaulting on a normal loan and taking a hit to your credit, you’d be defaulting on the loan to yourself and straight up losing that money, plus paying the penalties that come from not paying it back.
Anon
In addition to the fact that you are robing your retirement, there are tough limits on repaying a 401k loan. It must be done within 5 years, and basically immediately if you leave your job or are fired. I’ve never had a job where was sure I was going to be there for another 5 years.
I also think a lot of the advice has to do with the fact that in most markets rent is substantially cheaper then you would spend on a mortgage, both because rent is cheaper and because you normally purchase a nicer place then you were renting (e.g., going from a 1 bedroom apt to a 3 bedroom house). If you can’t save when paying the lower rent, there is a real concern about whether you will be able to consistently pay the mortgage and cover other home-owner emergencies.
anon a mouse
Run. The. Numbers.
Your 100K loan will be more expensive than just having a lower down payment. A five-year repayment term, with an interest rate of 4.25 (prime +1) is a monthly payment of $1853. Or $926.50 taken out of every paycheck (if you are paid 2x/month).
That same $1853 is roughly equivalent to adding $400K to a home price — that’s what the payments would be on a $400K home over 30 years. The short time frame of a 401k loan is just bad. It’s why it should only be used for emergencies. There are far cheaper ways to get money for wants (not needs).
There’s no reason to put 15% down. You can get a home with 5% down and save your cash.
Anonymous
Thanks, numbers are helpful. We’re not ready to buy yet, but we’re thinking about using the 401k loan when we are.
If we only put 5% down, we wouldn’t be able to afford monthly mortgage.
Even dipping my toe into the home buying process makes me want to move away from DC. Ugh.
anon a mouse
If you can’t afford the monthly mortgage with 5% down, you can’t afford the house. I’m sorry. There’s no magic to it. You either need to boost your savings separately, increase your earnings or come down in home price. You absolutely do not want to be in a situation where you are house poor and have nothing left over for home maintenance and repairs. To say nothing of, you don’t want to be in a situation where you have to sell and bring $$$ to the closing because you owe more than the house is worth.
Anon
If you can’t afford the mortgage if you only put 5% down, then you are not going to be able to afford the mortgage and 401k loan repayments. The 401k loan has to be repaid over 5 years, instead of the 30 years of a mortgage, so your monthly expenses will be higher then if you just put less down.
RR
The problem is that the payment on that 401k loan is steep, as a poster said above. We did the loan as a bridge, like another poster, because we were buying a new house before we sold the old one. Even so, those few months with that 401k loan payment were hard. If you can’t afford a mortgage with a lower down payment, then the mortgage with the higher down payment + 401k loan will have an even higher net payment.
anon
I’m one of the posters who did this and I’m super glad I did. borrowed 30K from my 401(k) toward a 100K down payment (for a 500K house). I lived in a HCOL city (LA) and there was no other way I could afford a home. I wasn’t fine with continuing to pay rent and seeing my housing costs go up every year. It worked out incredibly well – I now have 100-200K in equity built up after three years of homeownership, and will likely hold on to the house long term (have since moved and left my job).
huh
DC is not VHCOL. HCOL, sure. But when I think of VHCOL, I think of the Bay Area and NY. Even Boston is way more expensive than DC.
Signed,
Bought a (small) house in Silver Spring for 500K last year.
Anon
Nah, you’re not right here. DC is, like, the 5th most expensive city to live in in this country. That gets to count as VHCOL.
Anon
If you can buy a house in a non-horrible town in the metro area for 500K, it’s not VHCOL. VHCOL in my book is Bay Area, Toronto, NYC, Vancouver, etc.
Anon
Agree with huh – DC is not VHCOL. I’m in LA and think that is probably slightly more expensive than DC, and I consider LA HCOL. Bay Area and NYC are the only American cities that are VHCOL IMO.
Anon
Most of DC is mcol.
-Signed someone who moved to DC from LA and SF.
Anon
I don’t know where in LA you were, but I didn’t notice any drop in COL when I moved to DC. So much of this depends on whether you are talking about the whole metro area or just the city. Can you find somewhere to buy a house for $500k in the whole area? probably. Would that end up being a 90 min plus commute for most people? Also yes. If you are having to commute more than an hour to get a reasonable priced home, that means that it is a high cost of city area.
Anon0321
But that’s what I mean- you can’t find a house within an hour drive of dtLA for less than $500k, you can definitely find that in DC.
Anon
Where in DC can you find a house for less than $500k?
Anon
Silver spring for 1, which technically is not DC, but is off the metro, has a great quality of life and is awesome and very accessible to DC. I’m sure fort totten and other areas actually in dc too- but we decided we preferred md.
The same house we bought here would have been 2 mil in the peninsula and probably a min or 750 anywhere in LA, even further out.
I seriously looked at buying houses in all 3 of these locations, so I’m not shooting from the hip- the DC area is affordable for 2 professionals.
Anon0321
We are in dc too- I think the fear is that it’s a slippery slope to prioritize current needs and take money from your 401k- you also lose the time magic of compound equity.
I’m very financially savvy and did consider taking a loan from our 401k- if I did it though it would be for the minimum down payment (aka 3.5% or 5%, not 15%). I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea, just know the associated risks, rewards, and responsibilities.
Mid life crisis??
I wonder if I’m going through a mid life crisis. I’m 43, been a practicing attorney for 15+ years, married, kids. My life is objectively great, but I’m bored and crave change, like a new job, a new house, etc. I love my family, have hobbies, I volunteer regularly, I’m charitable, I sit on a couple boards, do pro bono work, etc., but I can’t get out of my own head for the last six months. Help.
Daisy
Why not change house or job, or at least seriously explore those options? Those seem like reasonable things to do/want, it’s not like you’re talking about going to live in a yurt on another continent or getting a full-face tattoo.
Rainbow Hair
Oooh maybe OP should just get a little tattoo though…
Anon
Yes!
Anonymous
change up your hobbies. Make a list of like 100 things you’ve never done and start working your way through those experiences. Much easier than changing job or house.
BeenThatGuy
I give this advice to friends all the time…pick one thing to do every month that you’ve always wanted to do or are scared to do. It can be big or small but it will most certainly be a positive change.
Rainbow Hair
Learning/doing new things is the BEST! Do something you might be bad at!
Here’s an unsolicited list of things you might want to try:
Physical
– a dance class (there are workout dance ‘parties’ that are really low key and just a fun way to sweat with fun people, or you could like, take salsa)
– rock climbing
– aerial dance/yoga/pole
– ride a horse?
Artsy
– learn to sew (you can usually find beginner and intermediary classes around!)
– life drawing (often for a small amount of $ you can drop in on life drawing sessions for a few hours on a weekend morning)
– ‘pour art’ is super fun and can be done with kids
Other
– brew beer! it’s fun!
– join a choir
Rainbow Hair
OP, when you describe the things you do already (leaving aside job), are they exciting? fulfilling? satisfying? Maybe some of them have turned into a slog that you want to quit? Maybe what you want to do is step into a different role where you volunteer? Do something different with your pro bono?
AK
In the process of trying to get my house ready for sale and i’m doing a bunch of little (from 1 to 8-hour) home fix-it projects. I’ve found that my satisfaction has increased a lot by tackling these projects and if you’re considering moving, they’ll be things you need to do. Baseboard repair! Wall repair! Polishing cabinets! Painting! Organizing and decluttering your stuff! Planting/gardening! It’s… surprisingly invigorating. Plus, my kiddo likes to help out with the “home work” and has loved the trips to Lowe’s.
Anon
Go on a big trip? I went to Tanzania for a few weeks last summer to visit a friend and see her non-profit work there in a little Masai village in the Great Rift Valley. It was crazy to do it at this time in life (I have small kids and a demanding job), but it was amazing and brought some fresh perspective to life. The only danger here is that it can be TOO life changing. Now I want to go back.
Anon
You are basically me. Same age, years of practice, married, kids. The thing is, I did change my life drastically last year–new city, new house, new job. It doesn’t really change a lot of that fundamental restlessness. What has helped a lot is actually new hobbies. I’ve taken up baking again. I’m doing yoga. I’m having fun in a way I haven’t for years. I’m trying to be more me and less what I feel like I’m supposed to be. It’s fantastic!
Anon
Thinking more about politics and the American rural-urban divide, I’m curious how many posters here have been to a majority of U.S. states. This board skews heavily coastal educated elite, and international travel is generally a priority to learn about other cultures…but what about the varied expressions of our own culture? Would more cross-American travel (both rural-urban and urban-rural) improve relations?
anon
I grew up in a rural area of a southern state and now live in an urban area in a different southern state. I’ve traveled through a lot of the country. I don’t think travel would improve anything. Building relationships and developing empathy for other people take time and involve actually getting to know someone, which is not really possible when you’re just coming in for a few days long vacation. I mean, I guess it could be eye opening to see the desperate poverty in a lot of the country, but it seems like a lot of the coastal urban elite would just be irritated by the few restaurant and shopping options.
RR
I have been to a majority of US states, but I don’t know if that’s broadened my horizons as much as the fact that I live in what many would consider a backward “flyover” state. I understand the Trump voter. I’m related to them. I’ve had conversations with them. I generally respect them in other things. I still judge them harshly.
Anon
I grew up in and currently live in Midwest states that are lean red/solidly red in the Trump era (I also spent a cumulative 10+ years in my late teens and 20s in the Boston area and then the Bay Area). Same feeling about Trump voters as RR. I’ve been to 45 states, but don’t think that’s expanded my cultural understanding of the people in those states.
cbackson
Yeah, I think that visiting doesn’t do much in terms of that type of understanding. I spent a week in South Dakota recently, but I don’t feel like I have a significantly better understanding of the needs and priorities of South Dakotans as a result (although man, it is gorgeous). I learned a little bit about a few things, but not what you learn if you live some place, work there, go to college there, etc.
Anon
Grew up in a very Trump-y district of a liberal state that is rural poor/highway poor and have moved back there on and off throughout my life. However, most of the Trump voters I know are wealthy people who grew up on the east or west coast.
lsw
+1, this is me. Grew up in semi-rural Trump country, moved immediately to a liberal east coast city when I was 18 and never looked back.
anon for this
I don’t know about improving relations, but as someone from a flyover state currently in a big coastal city, it’s frustrating how many of my colleagues really have no idea what it means to live somewhere without all the same amenities of a giant metropolis. It’s definitely a bubble — I like it here but I also have the background to recognize it’s a bubble.
I worry about my kids who will be growing up in the bubble. I’ve been to 41 states and should hit the rest in the next 5 years. We prioritize trips in other parts of the US over trips to Europe right now. Partly because we have family in still rural areas, and partly because I genuinely think this country has some really, stunningly beautiful parts that most people will never see. And because I want my kids to understand how big and diverse the country is and that it’s something worth protecting and fighting for.
Cb
You might like the Pantsuit Politics podcast. They are based in Kentucky, one left-wing, one-right wing and they really make a huge effort to bring in a range of perspectives.
I hate the patronizing NYT think pieces about middle-America or Guardian pieces about Leave-voting Northern communities but equally, side-eye things like Hillbilly Elegy. I see a lot of attention paid to understanding the perspectives of the white working class in rural areas (economic insecurity translating into racial bias or support for UKIP) but there doesn’t appear to be an effort within those groups to understand the concerns of women in a me too era, ethnic minorities, refugees, LGBT+ folks. Perhaps more travel and exchange would help with that – as would people not existing in media bubbles.
Anon
+1
Ribena
Co-sign this. In a U.K. context, I see a lot of Remainers reaching out to and understanding Leavers but very little of that happening in the other direction.
Anonymous
IDK – lots of people have also talked about vacationing in rural areas. I grew up in a rural area and moved to a bigger city because I couldn’t take the closemindness on even the simplest things. I didn’t want my kids to grow up around that. Like omfg, a rainbow crosswalk isn’t the end of the world and I’m not a bad mom if I chose to work outside the home. Working outside the home for moms was treated as acceptable only in cases of economic necessity.
FWIW rural-urban divide is an issue worldwide. Look at any voting map of Europe and the divide there is also clear. I’m not sure travel would improve things. A strong public education system would improve things so that students learn how to properly evalute sources of information and critical thinking skills.
Anonymous
Or just how many people here still break bread with people who are in a trade, just have an associates degree, have jobs where they wear a uniform or a name tag, etc?
Anon
I do daily, but I work at a utility company, so there are people of all walks of life.
Vicky Austin
+1 – rural hospital in a town whose population is skyrocketing.
Daisy
Is there a reason the population is skyrocketing? You always hear about the trend of people moving to cities, so I’m curious to hear about somewhere that’s experiencing the opposite (especially as someone who is considering relocating to a small town to get out of the urban ‘rat race’).
Vicky Austin
There are loads of lucrative jobs in a certain booming industry. I’d prefer not to out myself any further.
Rainbow Hair
Married to an associates-degree-holder (and SAHD, former retail worker), and I work with skilled tradespeople, have lots of friends in foodservice/similar, but yeah, I hear so much ~othering~ of people like my husband and colleagues and friends on this board (and did, IRL, when I worked in law firms), like “well sure it’s all fine and good to be an electrician, but they clearly don’t share my *drive*” or whatever. It’s a bummer.
anon for this
I just moved back to the Bay Area and for the first time in 2 decades, I am interacting with folks who are not super elite, upper middle class — think public school teacher, restaurant worker (these are all friends from back home growing up). My friend who is the teacher lives in a 500 sq ft apartment with two teenage kids and was previously on food stamps. It’s sobering and refreshing honestly and keeps my own “troubles” in perspective.
all about eevee
I do daily but I live in an area of the country where the trades are big and not everyone goes to college. My parents, brother, and sister-in-law only have high school diplomas. My husband has a college degree, but works in a manufacturing plant as a robot mechanic.
Belle Boyd
Every single day.
My dad is a retired auto mechanic. My sister is a machinist and holds her cosmetology license, though she just does hair for family and close friends. My brother-in-law is a retired machinist. I work in the construction field and deal with heavy equipment operators, truck drivers, and mechanics every single day.
I more often than not think that I chose the wrong career path.
And the idea an electrician doesn’t have any “drive” is complete and utter bullsh!t. If you know a trade, and you are good at it, you are never out of work. Most tradespeople make an absolute sh!t ton of $$$, at least the ones I know do — because they are always in demand. Sure it’s nice to have that sheepskin hanging on your wall and those fancy letters after your name, but they aren’t going to turn the lights back on or unclog your toilet.
Rainbow Hair
I hope I was clear that I know that it’s nonsense to say folks without fancy office jobs lack “drive”! I know plenty of awesome (and driven!) folks in the trades … I get testy when the women on this board say, particularly, that men without fancy office jobs “don’t have the same ambition as me” or whatever.
cbackson
I’ve been to 38 of the 50 (and by “been to,” I mean, have either spent a night or substantial time during the day, not just “got out of the car at a rest stop.”
Anonymous
Idk what you’re basing this on, but plenty of coastal elites travel all over this country.
Mpls
I don’t know if travel would do it. If I use Nebraska as an example – what part of the state are most people going to visit? Omaha – large city, great zoo, things to do. Lincoln – college town, crazy-fanatic college football fans. Maybe Valentine for the Sandhills, maybe you go to Ogallala to visit Lake McConaughy. But…that’s it. Unless you’ve got family you’re visiting, what would a visit to Nebraska do to break strengthen the rural/urban understanding…It really seems like you have know people that live that life, and have to understand that those who choose to live it have different goals and perspectives.
Anon
Been to 43 out of 50 states, lived everywhere from the rural south to NYC. Now live in a small southern city.
The younger generation in the south is (for the most part) great. The older generations make me downright uncomfortable. That’s a new one for me, because I’ve usually gotten along very well with people of all ages.
anon
^ completely agree with this. And I think people like to think the south is some kind of monolith of backwards racism. And yeah, it’s definitely a thing here for sure. But ~35-45% of voters in every state in the south (up to ~50% in Virginia, if you consider that the south) voted for Hilary. It’s not like everyone down here is playing Dixie and waving a confederate flag. Even the evangelical christian people in my generation are a lot more socially liberal than the previous generations.
Anon
I’m not looking for socially liberal in the sense of “supporting the national Dem agenda.” I’m talking about things like not treating women like their only purpose in life is to procreate, understanding that a good mom can work outside the home, etc.
Heidi Cruz shows it’s not a liberal-coinservative thing… it’s a “I did it this way and you should, too” thing. It is really, really uncomfortable.
anon
+1 I’m in a pretty progressive city. (The blue dot in a red state). The older generation (my parents) definitely sees things differently from the younger generation (me).
Anonymous
I’ve been to 41 of the 50 states, lived in 3 rural states (KS, ME, and NH) and currently live in NJ. When I looked at grad schools, I specifically looked outside of the northeast to experience another part of the country, and I ended up in Manhattan, Kansas for 8 years – 3 for school and then 5 for work. It was a wonderful experience, and I am extremely glad that I did it, but I moved back to the northeast at the first opportunity. The longer I was there and the more integrated I was into the community, the more I realized how fundamentally different the culture was from the northeast, and how much more comfortable I was in the eastern culture. While the pace of life and racial/ethnic as well as socioeconomic diversity in NJ differs greatly from ME and NH, I find that there are many more underlying values in common between these states than between rural ME/NH and rural KS. I’m not sure that I personally would have picked up on this from travel alone – the common language and traditions can really mask the divergence in culture.
anon
Ooooh, this is really interesting. How would you describe the cultural differences?
Anonymous
These are only my experiences!!!, but I’ve encountered more of a live-and-let-live atmosphere in the northeast. For example, in KS I went to church weekly or biweekly, but because it was an Episcopalian church, it didn’t count. I learned to not talk about church very quickly after three or four acquaintances tried to have me come to their church so I could be re-baptized because my baptism as a baby didn’t count. There was a hard press on a lot of the social issues – how could I possibly live with myself if I was pro-choice? Didn’t I understand how my lesbian lab partner was going to hell, and how could I not try to bring her to Christ? (Don’t get me started on what I saw of her experience). I learned to be very cautious around people who wanted to know my opinions on current events very early in a relationship, because they were almost always trying to save me. The pressure to conform was very strong. I made some life-long friends from my church and grad school department, but none that I can think of from other avenues.
In NJ, being an educated upper class professional who goes to church is weird, but no one tries to convert me to Atheism or one of the myriad of religions that are practiced here. I’ve had really interesting, really respectful conversations with people who believe vastly different things than I do, and one of the neighbors I’m closest with is an Evangelical Christian who volunteers for an anti-choice organization. We don’t agree on almost anything and we joke that our votes and activism cancel each other out, but we are friends for all of that.
In NH/ME, most of the conservatives I know are curmudgeonly types (family and friends, both) who want the government to leave them alone in ways I can’t fathom (Live Free or Die!). They could care less what people are doing with their own bodies, in the privacy of their houses, or in their churches. We tend to get in arguments, think the other is completely nuts, and then continue with our friendships.
To sum it up, in all three rural states I’ve lived in I’ve been farther to the left than my community, and in NJ I’m farther to the right. However, in all the northeastern states my views have been respected and I’ve been seen as a person outside of those views. In KS, my views defined me and limited my social circle significantly. Looking back, I can see ways that I could have broadened my circle, but I couldn’t see it at the time.
Thanks for asking the question – I’ve never had to really think about this before.
Anon
This is interesting. I’m not in Kansas but I’m in a similar (I assume?) college town in a deep red Midwestern state – we’re in the heart of Trump country but within the city limits, pretty much everyone is affiliated with the university in some way, so the town itself is liberal, relatively diverse, and super accepting of LGBT+. Most people I know are not religious and the religious people are very respectful and don’t push their beliefs on anyone. I can see having these experiences if you were living even a few miles outside of town and interacting with a lot of farm families, but I’m really surprised this was your experience in a college town.
Anonymous
If I’d been in Lawrence (University of Kansas) it would have been a more liberal area, but friends there have experienced the same thing re religion. But Kansas State is the agricultural university for the state and Manhattan is only slightly more liberal than the surrounding areas.
Vicky Austin
I’ve been to just under half, but I’ve spent my entire life in flyover states (and been to most of them). I honestly don’t know about inter-area travel. I’m sure it wouldn’t hurt, but I still feel like there’s no guarantee it would always change the underlying attitudes of us vs. them, which are really hard to shake (and DJT knows this and capitalizes on it).
That said, I grew up in one state with strong family ties to another, and I think that was huge in my realizing as a young person that other people in other parts of the country lived differently (and voted differently!). That plus summer camp was a big deal.
Anon
I don’t think visiting a place, especially touristy places, really gives you a sense of how and why the people in that area behave a certain way. (Same as I believe that you can’t live like a local unless you are truly a local, regardless of how many non-chain restaurants you go to. Eating brunch at a sidewalk café doesn’t mean you experienced a city like a local) I’ve visited 45 states, just missing a few in New England and on the west coast. But it isn’t those visits that have made me understand how non-city elites feel. It was growing up in the Midwest. It was visiting my family that are farmers and my family that live in a small rural town, and have a true relationship with people with that lifestyle. It was growing up poor. Visiting a state doesn’t give you those experiences
Suburban
I grew up on and live on Long Island. I spent last night at a charity meeting hearing rants from older white “coastal elite” men and women about how great and not racist trump is. Then we planned our four hundred dollar a head golf outing and talked about helping poor (mostly Hispanic) people with the proceeds.
My point here, is that I don’t think I need to go to Kentucky to understand trump’s appeal. I don’t think the average trump voter in any other state is dumber, more motivated by perceived short term economic gains, or more prone to cruelty than the people I was with last night. They’re all just white people scared of losing the inherent advantage that white people have always had in this country.
Anonymous
I find this comment racist. Replace “white people” with just about anything else, and many posters would be all over it. Stereotyping white people is just as bad as stereotyping any one else. This comment should not have made it through moderation.
Anon
Ok, snowflake.
Anonymous
I think it’s more about conformity than about race. They take issue with people who are different in any way. People who make different choices, who know different things, who eat different food, who have different abilities. That’s why people who are or who want something different hightail it out of those communities!
Anon
Thank you for saying that.
Suburban
Since it seems you’re interested in race in America, you should probably understand it a little better. There is more to racism than one person generalizing or stereotyping.
Basically, racism exists in light of an underlying social/economic power disparity. Undisputedly, the power dynamic in this country shifts toward white people. I think my comment was reflecting that reality. I did not invoke a harmful stereotype against a persecuted minority. Rather, I suggested that the group that benefits from the racial imbalance of power in this country likes things how they are.
Also, gently, the idea that white people are the victims of racism in this country, is the backbone of white supremacy right now.
Anonymous
Thank you.
pugsnbourbon
Anon @ 11:02: she wasn’t stereotyping white people, she was discussing an actual event that she attended with actual rich, older white people.
And also stereotyping white people is absolutely nothing like stereotyping BIPOC and other minority groups. White supremacy is insidious and has real, harmful effects on society.
PolyD
Seriously. I’m a middle-aged white woman – I can get away with almost anything.
Case in point – coming back from a trip to Canada, I had stupidly forgot to activate my Global Entry card, which we discovered when we got to the checkpoint at the end of the (much faster) Global Entry line. The border agent gave me a stern look and told me to activate my card as soon as possible, then waved us through. Does anyone think a Middle Eastern woman or black woman would have gotten through so easily?
That’s what white privilege is about. Sure, there are plenty of white people in this country facing lots of challenges, but most of them are not correlated with their skin color.
Anonymous
PolyD is making a gross assumption. Perhaps the border agent was bored, or hungry, or ready for a shift change, or needed to use the restroom or had encountered this situation before and been advised to let the person in. But because you are viewing things through a racial lens, you assume they let you in because you are white. Doesn’t mean it’s true.
Anonymous
Anonymous at 1:08, you’ve got to be kidding. Ask any one who went to school near the Canadian border which classmates were and were not held up by customs on the way back from a trip to Canada. People actually planned trips around the predicted wait times based on the racial makeups of the group.
anon
Another white woman here with a similar story–once I forgot my ID before a flight and got on through security by showing a piece of mail in my purse that had my name on it. They did give it a little bit of thought– they actually asked me if I had anything else with my name on it. So it wasn’t a question of boredom- one agent consulted with someone else, and they agreed. I wasn’t hassled at all- I probably looked like I was about to cry and they told me it would all be fine.
I’m sure being female is a huge part of this as well. Also, I’ve never ever felt like I was being watched or at risk for getting in trouble with cops. I see police officers out and about and usually if we make eye contact they will smile and nod, and greet me. I do not live in a small town where every body knows your name. I grew up believing the cops were there to protect me. Can many people of color say that?
Anon
I think it’s a very different kind of support though. Wealthy white people on Long Island like Trump because he’s cutting their taxes and the market is up, and they just insist he’s not racist so they can sleep better at night. A lot of the white people in the flyover states aren’t actually benefited by Trump’s tax cuts and don’t have any money in the stock market. They support him because they truly believe the lies he tells and Fox News tells. It’s not PC to say it, but they are dumber, or at least less educated and less able to think critically. I live in one of the flyover states that loves Trump, fwiw.
Suburban
That’s why I’ve said “perceived economic gains.” Trump’s tax cuts hurt blue state homeowners with high property taxes. I suspect these people also parrot everything they hear on fox. Last night someone said that trump isn’t racist because so many black people work for him. That’s got to be a Fox News talking point, right?
Z
Its definitely not just wealthy white people. I grew up on LI too. The COL is so high and property taxes are among the highest in the country, the working class are hurting and believe Trump could help. There are also a ton of immigrants on LI and xenophobia is rampant. An immigrant was killed in my hometown by white teenagers about 10 years ago. There was a hate crime against a lesbian couple just a couple weeks ago. It is a very backwards place despite being so close to NYC.
Suburban
I agree with this and it’s also a great point.
Atlien
#50before30!
but I don’t think just traveling through necessarily does it–much depends on seeing rural areas outside of the cities (Boise may not be NYC but it’s still a lot different than a town with just a Dollar General) and living in different areas of the country.
Anon
I grew up in a red area of CA (the Central Valley) to very conservative and I’m sorry to say bigoted parents. I live in the Bay Area now. I’ve visited 40/50 US states and have spent significant time in my parents’ very conservative home states and communities – one in the Midwest, one in the Deep South.
I’m not liberal because I’ve never been exposed to anything outside of my bubble. I’m liberal because I’m educated. If anything, I’m more liberal in reaction to what I’ve experienced growing up in a conservative area.
JuniorMinion
“I’m liberal because I’m educated” you just proved why DJT got elected. Also for what it’s worth DJT is not a conservative if we’re going with the limited goverment fiscal conservativism adherence to the constitution bent that some more moderate people would espouse.
I say this as someone who currently lives in the Central Valley. I don’t agree with some views here (and don’t associate myself with people who I feel are close minded), but I understand why people here feel the coastal elites don’t respect their contributions (ag, energy) to the CA economy.
Anon
Like it or not, being liberal is highly correlated with being educated.
Anon
And being poorly educated: the Democrats get massive, massive numbers (like over 90%) of people who don’t have a high school diploma.
Anon
I don’t think that is true. Source? Here’s mine
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/575113/
Anon
Also, ag is less than 2% of the state’s GDP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California
Yes, I know what they say about that in the valley but it’s not backed up by the facts.
anon
I don’t get it. Conservatives elected someone who is catastrophically stupid and profoundly immoral because they were tired of being called stupid? What? That doesn’t make sense. Explain like I’m 5. Or did they just want to get back at the liberal meanies? Mature.
Anon
If you actually need an explanation:
The entire point of Donald Trump is to make upper-middle class white women cry and feel impotent. These people tried to reason with you. They tried to explain why they were hurting. They tried explaining that they just lived different lives. They tried explaining how the recession hurt them. In return, they got called ignorant racists and were told to learn how to code. They were mocked, laughed at, and derided as being “bitter” and “clinging to their guns and their religion.”
Decades of playing nice with you got them kicked in the face and told they should be thankful to lick your Ferragamos. So they, 100% correctly, stopped playing nice.
If you don’t understand this, you don’t understand how hated you are.
Anon
Found the idiot.
Anonnona
This is late, but in my very rural very red area, probably 90% of people who voted Trump did so bc of abortion.
Anonymous
Babysat my nieces this week and noticed they wear cute dresses with short biker shorts underneath. I am never comfortable in fit and flare dresses because I worry about an accidental flash – anyone have a recommendation for short biker shorts? Or underwear that actually covers the rear, that might look like shorts? I don’t want Spanx/control top, not sure whether they should be hipster or high waist. Open to either.
The original Scarlett
Jockey skimmies
Anon.
+1
anon
I just got a few pairs of undies from tomboyx for this reason.
Anon0321
I have a 3yo and make her wear shorts so she can play on the entire jungle gym everyday, all day.
I’ve also always worn shorts under dresses- I just go to a local sports store and try on stuff til I find something that fits and is comfortable.
Worry about yourself
I’ve been eyeing this brand called Undersummers, they’re fairly long to prevent thigh chafing as well as accidental flashing, and they come in lots of colors, and some styles have lacey trim.
Suburban
Not helpful to your question, but my niece calls these her “cartwheel shorts” which I think is so cute.
Anon
slip shorts – it’s slip material but in shorts, so the material is lighter than bike shorts but doesn’t stick to the dress. If you’re in a hot environment and prefer cotton, honestly…men’s cotton boxers that fit you snug. A plus, they can have really cool patterns.
Ribena
Forever 21 does cycle shorts which are excellent for this. In the U.K. there is also a new brand called Snag Tights who make ‘keep cool chub rub shorts’ which are wonderful. I’ve been wearing shorts under my skirt since I cycled to school as a young teen so it’s great that the availability is catching up!
Anonymous
I like the look of the Forever 21 cycle shorts, but the largest size I see is Med/Large. Do you know how they run? I normally wear a size 10 or 12 on the bottom and worried these would be way too snug.
Ribena
I wear a US 12-14 on the bottom and they’re fine for under skirts! I wouldn’t wear them by themselves though
Anonymous
Awesome, thanks!
Anon
Cotton bike shorts. Mine are from Champion. I have a drawer full.
Anon
My preference is very thin, light shorts that you can find in the spanx section (they’re not actually constricting or shaping, that’s just where stores put them) or basic spandex bike shorts.
Anonymous
Mine are athletic. Nike Pro.
Anonymous
How would you respond?
I have a friend in another state. We text on occasion and usually get together when I am in town. So, not super close but I do consider her a good friend and when we lived in the same place we were much closer. She’s fallen on some pretty messy, hard times. I believe at least part of her current situation is self-inflicted and related to making some really questionable, terrible decisions, but she also struggles with mental health issues as well. I’ve been a listening ear for her and often treat when we go to dinner and such but she recently emailed a very small group of people with a link to her go fund me page. I know she’s in a really bad spot and obviously struggling a lot and I want to be supportive to her as a friend but I don’t know how to respond to the go fund me. She sent it to such a small group of people – there’s no way she wouldn’t notice if I just silently don’t contribute and I’m due to see her again in person in about a month. What would you do?
Anonymous
Either contribute or don’t.
The original Scarlett
I’d send her some money through it.
Anonymous
Did she specify what it is for? Upcoming hospital stay? Help her make rent before her car accident insurance pays out etc?
I’d be inclined to contribute like the cost of sending her a meal or flowers. That’s what you would do if she was sick and struggling with mental health is basically like that.
anonshmanon
Yes, this. Imagine you are inviting her for dinner.
Anonymous
It’s a pretty fantastically large amount of money apparently needed to cover just about everything, primarily housing and legal expenses. I want to help her. My heart goes out to her and I feel for her and don’t want her to be in a bad spot, but financially I’m not in a position to even make a dent in the amount she needs and it’s really frustrating to think about all of the choices she made that got her in this position.
Anonymous
It’s not about covering the whole amount. Just make a nominal contribution to express your support/concern.
When you have poor mental health and you are alone, it can be really hard to make good decisions. It’s like expecting someone with a sprained ankle to walk well. Legal issue can be especially scary/stressful to deal with. Housing is also critical to mental health. Programs in some cities actually focus on getting people housed prior to treatment because treatment can be ineffective if the person is homeless and can’t regularly take their medications and get appropriate sleep.
eertmeert
In these cases, I’d send $20-25, with a note on how I am looking forward to treating her to dinner soon. I’d also share that I am in a tough financial position myself and can’t do more at this time, but love her and am here for her in other ways.
I think it’s important to share that you are strapped, so she understands you are not in a position to give much more than your love and care.
It’s hard to not judge – am dealing with watching a close friend about to marry a guy who is objectively not husband material – but it is important to set that aside and focus on the friendship, which will hopefully outlast her current situation.
We can’t make decisions for our friends, we can only love them.
Anon
Throw $25 in the pot and offer to help her find resources to get her some help. Does she need a low-income legal clinic? Limited legal representation? Housing assistance? Money is fungible – even if she can’t find someone to help pay her legal bills or represent her for a reduced fee, she may be able to get assistance in other areas that would free up some resources for her.
Anon
Assuming you’re able, I’d send a nominal amount (maybe $25-50) and leave it at that. You sound kind of conflicted about giving, which is how I would feel as well, so no need to give a large amount.
Anon0321
This is what I’d do- I always try to err on being kind and generous (as long as it doesn’t hurt you). And $25 isn’t enough that she’d see you as a payday and keep at it. If she asks again you can reassess at that time.
Anon
Counterpoint – I wouldn’t contribute. It sounds like you don’t want to, and I think you’re well within your rights to feel that way.
Anon
Ugh I hate go fund me because it seems like it’s almost as much about showing off on social media as it is about funding the thing.
I also have a close friend going through a really tough spot. I have “lent” her thousands with the full knowledge that she will most likely never be able to pay me back (but she insisted that it must be a loan before she would accept it.)
Once her situation became more widely known, other friends started a go fund me and publicized it on Facebook. Then they were shaming people who didn’t contribute. Most contributions were in the $20-$100 range. I didn’t contribute through the go fund me because they take a cut, and also because I don’t need to go public with how I am helping my friend.
So I guess these go fund me contributors think I’m too cheap to support my friend when in fact I’ve supported her much more and they just don’t know, because it’s private.
anxious about getting old?
How do you plan for the last 20 years of life if you don’t want kids and don’t have a younger family generation coming up? In my 30s, how do we plan for being 80 and not having a caregiver?
How do you make sure you end up in a nice facility with someone good taking care of you?
Anonymous
Save a ton of money, look into long term care insurance, consider a CCRC.
Coach Laura
Continuing Care Retirement Communities are great. The key is you have to enter a CCRC before you’re infirm, so people who put it off are sometimes not eligible. Entering early or before you need it could be expensive but they are often nice places to live. So enter at 70 even if you’re still working or traveling.
Co-housing is an idea too. Maybe co-housing and long term care insurance plus lots of money. Could be a golden-girls scenario or co-housing with all ages.
There was a useful article in the defunct Money magazine that is available online. It’s about “solo seniors” or “elder orphans” to describe people without family aging alone.
Anon
I think even if you have kids, the only answer to this is to save as much money as possible, unfortunately.
Anon
+1. Alzheimer’s patients are super hard to care for at home, so even if you have children, a good facility makes more sense in many situations. My grandmother burned through more than two million dollars in the last few years of her life when she had advanced dementia and needed to be in an expensive assisted living facility AND pay a private 24/7 caregiver. My parents have $5M+ saved, and although they take vacations, etc. they are still living a modest lifestyle so they can continue saving and not drain down their savings. I think it’s really smart, and a tremendous gift to their children. My in-laws have next to no savings and I really worry about how we’re going to pay for their end of life care.
Of Counsel
You aren’t going to pay for it, Medicaid is.
There is this assumption on this board that people can realistically save enough money to pay for their end of life care. However, even the most responsible of savers cannot save that amount on what most people make. That is simply a reality and there is no point in pretending otherwise. Saving millions is not possible for people who are not going to make millions.
voxleo
Thank you for saying this. I don’t know how saving is accomplished when just MAKING is already nearly impossible…
Original Moonstone
I’ve been doing some financial retirement planning lately. (Unlike lots of posters here, I hate it.) But as part of the process, I read this book: “Essential retirement planning for solo agers : a retirement and aging roadmap for single and childless adults” by Sara Zeff Geber. It gets bad Amazon reviews because people expect it to be a financial planning book, but it’s more about laying the groundwork for very old age. She talks about building your circle of friends across generations, for instance. You are far younger than her target audience, but I’m in my 50s and it gave me some things to think about.
Anon
Golden girls? But in all honestly, saving really well, purchasing long term and/or memory care insurance cheap while you’re relatively young, stay close to friends that are more like family (and their kids, i.e. your “nieces and nephews”), and hope for the best. Nothing is guaranteed but life is easier as you get older when you maintain a healthy community and family (blood and chosen) around you.
Anon
You save a couple million dollars and pray you choose a good facility.
Do insurers still sell long-term care insurance? It’s such a financial loss for them that I’m not sure it’s available anymore.
My grandmother’s in a pretty luxurious assisted living facility (there’s a grand piano in the lobby, if that gives you any idea) and it’s $6k per month. She has a one bedroom “apartment” with a living area with a kitchenette and a bedroom with WIC and bathroom. That does include all her meals and utilities, aides to help her bathe and dress and give her her pills, and 24 hour nursing staff.
Anonymous
I have long term care insurance through northwestern mutual (not sure they still offer the exact same version I have which I do believe they phased out. but I’m sure they still offer something)
Anonymous
The same way you’d plan if you had kids/younger relatives. Someone’s kids/younger relatives might need to live in another state for work, maybe they travel a lot, maybe they have their own medical issues (or children with medical issues), maybe they can help out for awhile until they just can’t safely provide the level of care that’s needed, or maybe they just don’t want to.
Anonymous
Purchase long-term care insurance now when you are young and healthy. I purchased it in my 20s.
Anon
Paging appellate fed – are you still there? Would love to talk to you offline about your experience if so! Especially regarding remote work. I can post a burner email address.
appellate fed
Yes, I’m here! Feel free to post a burner email.
Anon
Great! It’s snn1326@outlook.com. Email anytime and I’ll write back!
Anon0321
Those of you that do intermittent fasting… how do you make it through the day? Every time I try I get insanely hungry and get a headache. Frustrated.
Anon
Some people just have a hard time with it.
I have found it takes me a few days to get used to it and while I’m in that phase, I drink a lot of water and green tea until I adjust.
Anonymous
Listen to your body. That’s a sign you are doing something that isn’t working for you. I do a modified IF. I have a black coffee and small yoghurt in the morning. Make sure I drink enough water throughout the morning. Lunch about 12 with a good protein sources. Snack around 3-4pm. Dinner at 6:30pm-7pm. Light snack around 8:30-9pm. Stay out of kitchen after 9pm so not tempted to mindlessly snack. IF is basically not snacking in the evening, not eating overnight (you are asleep anyway), and not eating in the morning. It didn’t work for me until I added coffee and small yoghurt in the morning so try a few different variations to see what works for you. It’s basically mindful eating. Take your time with your meals. Having only two meals a day instead of three allows me to spend more time focused on what I am eating which helps with saity cues.
Headache may well also be dehydration related if you are not drinking enough water. Make sure you are eating enough protein when you are eating.
Anonymous
I would not in any way call what you are doing fasting. You’re eating breakfast, lunch, dinner, and two snacks a day!
Anonymous
IF is that you eat normally within a set window. My window is noon-9pm. That’s 15 hrs of fasting with the exception of a coffee and small yoghurt. I don’t think of 50cals of yoghurt as a balanced ‘breakfast’.
Anonymous
Idk why you’d pretend like this is fasting but if it works for you, great!
Anon
That’s a pretty large window though. I sometimes don’t eat outside that window without trying. And even if your yogurt is small and not calorie-intensive, you are in fact eating outside the window so you’re not “fasting,” intermittently or otherwise.
Anon
Lots of people fast for 15 hours from 9pm to noon, with the except of breakfast. That doesn’t make it IF. I don’t think there is some huge group of Americans who are eating after 9pm every day, but I guess I don’t know since I’m not in their kitchens.
Anon
LOL using the name IF doesn’t mean anybody is “pretending” anything. Let people do what they want!
Anon
Right?
Monday
Yes, she is apparently not fasting. But the failure is with dieting (in any form), not the individual. I used to think IF was different, but I really don’t think it is.
Anon
Lol agreed. It’s not remotely fasting, just eating normally.
Anon
If fasting during the day: I eat heavy protein filled meals right before the fasting begins (ex. breakfast equals two boiled eggs, 6 oz protein shake, toast with jam, and coffee with cream and sugar, which is heavy for me) and drink lots of flavored water, tea, and fizzy water. If I’m so hungry it hurts, I say screw it and eat half a banana, a handful of almonds, basically just a little something to stop the stomach cramping until the fasting period is over.
If fasting overnight: Eat heavier protein and fat filled foods (nuts, avocado, chicken with beans, etc.) and drink a full glass of water before bed.
I also tested different fasting periods to see what I could stand. For me that meant starting at 16 hrs (nope couldn’t do that) and going downward. I also started doing research and saw in many reputable sources that the ideal fasting time for a woman is shorter than what is recommended for men. I settled on around 11 hrs, some women I know do ten. That also makes it logistically easier as I , depending on schedule as I adjust for social events, fast from 8 am to 7 pm (heavy protein filled breakfast and filling but not so heavy dinner), or fast from 7 pm to 6/7 am (less cramping).
Anonymous
Out of curiosity, is there anyone out there who isn’t fasting from like 7pm to 6 or 7am??? I had no idea there were so many middle of the night eaters. How odd!
anne-on
It takes me a few days to get used to it when I stop, but I’m also not much of an early morning eater, so the change isn’t as dramatic as someone who maybe always eats at 6 or 7am. Breakfast is always about 9-9:30, so moving it to 11 (for me) wasn’t really a big deal. I think upping your water consumption (like waaay up) also helps a lot, as does focusing on adding in a lot of protein/fiber. I also ‘cheat’ and have my morning cup of coffee around 7:30 with cream, and drink 12-18 ounces of water right after I wake up so that does help a bit in terms of having something in my stomach.
Anon
I know you’re asking about how to survive IF but for what it’s worth, IF was a terrible idea for me and I’m much more focused, energized, and healthy eating clean, reasonable meals throughout the day–mainly because I do a hard workout in the AM and need to refuel and then I also work long hours that are intellectually intensive. I had to work with a nutritionist to figure this out and optimize things, but it might be worth considering that IF isn’t something you react well to. Otherwise, coffee with a bit of fat, loads and loads of water, switching to workouts during/after my eating window or moving my window to earlier in the day all helped even though I never felt as good as I feel not doing IF.
Suburban
I’m just starting this, but my reasearch showed that eating low carb/high fat beforehand might help. I’m genuinely skeptical of this but giving it a shot.
Anon
I was skeptical at first but gave it a try and man, my energy level was so much higher, especially around midday when I would normally crash a couple hours after lunch, and I was dropping weight so much easier and faster (caveat, I was actively on a diet but maintained a healthy calorie deficit that still hadn’t budged weight off previously). I think with every form of eating it works well for some people and not as well for other because our bodies are all differently weird. I also followed most days but if my stomach was in pain (and not just standard uncomfortable hungry cramps) I gave it some almonds, half a protein bar, something small with no added sugars to calm it down.
Suburban
Thanks for sharing. I’m glad it worked for you and really encouraged by this.
Anon
This is what my doctor said (something along the lines of fasting only works and is only beneficial if insulin levels stay low).
Anon0311
I’m the Op and I was super sceptical, but my parents have done it for about a year and have seen really great results- they bothlost tons of weight and got their prediabities and no under control, so I thought I’d give it a try.
Em
Probably not what you are looking for, but I don’t. I tried IF and almost passed out in a meeting at work, so I decided it was not a good fit for me or my body.
Anonymous
You may need to get your blood sugar tested if skipping a meal makes you feel faint (if you are getting both hyperglycemia and hypoglycemia, the highs and lows can cancel each other out on an A1C, so you would need a glucose tolerance test or some other additional testing to see if something’s wrong). I personally let this go too long.
Anonymous
Try moving your eating window. Harvard Health suggests either 7am-3pm or 10am-6pm.
Anonymous
I eat a tangerine and half a hard-boiled egg for breakfast, and then try to eat lunch “early:, i.e.not mid-afternoon as I have a tendency to do. I find having a very small amount of protein and absolutely no carbs in the morning works for me.
Anonymous
A tangerine has 12g of carbs.
Rainbow Hair
Here comes RH with her expected (but necessary?) comment! If you feel terrible, you probably shouldn’t do it. Bodies are, generally, hungry when they need food. A headache often indicates that your body isn’t getting something it needs (food, water, rest, etc.) … maybe skipping meals isn’t a good choice for you!
TW you prob want to skip this if you’re sensitive to ED stuff. As someone with a history of disordered eating, the only way for me to be skinny was by not eating and being miserably hungry (and headachey, and cranky) all the time. We didn’t have the phrase “intermittent fasting” at the time but “not eating until I’m going to faint and then having a muffin or yogurt and repeating” ended up being just about the same thing. It “worked” in that my body was much smaller. My mom kept telling me how ‘healthy’ I was looking. It didn’t work in that I don’t think it was worth it, and it sureAF didn’t make me happy.
I hope you find something that works for you and doesn’t make you feel bad. Life’s too short to be miserable when you can avoid it. <3
Anon
All the +1s
Anon0321
OP here- RH, I understand totally. After wasting years thinking my body wasn’t good enough, I do love my body & use it often (I’m all about giving zero Fs when I wear a bathing suit all summer). However, after 2 babies, all I want to do is eat ALL THE TIME and my weight has crept up past 200 pounds. I’m only 5 feet tall and I’m concerned about it trending even more upwards (for logistic reasons- yesterday the biggest size at GAP was too tight, and I’d like to continue shopping for clothes at regular stores). Regular dieting doesn’t work for me because I become obsessed, miserable, and of course inevitable binge. My parents have had a ton of success doing IF (both each lost about 30 lbs & reversed their pre-diabetic labels), so I figured I’d give it a try.
Coach Laura
With this additional information, I’d talk to your doctor to get the blood sugar tests someone else mentioned above, plus thyroid and other hormone tests. Then ask your doctor if there is a prescription weight loss drug available that might work for you. And then finally a dietician. You need better, more professional information than people here (including me), no offense to other posters.
Anon0321
I did- since I was tested for hormones and blood sugar during my pregnancy at the end of last year and everything came out ok, my dr refused to do it again and waved me off with a vague suggestion to “watch my weight” (yes I need a new dr- but waitlists in my city are insane and it’s been a struggle to find a good dr- I’m trying).
htowncalc
if you can afford it, i would recommend a meal prep service. a good way to keep calorie counts under control.
Rainbow Hair
Hey, I appreciate the response! Yeah, your doc sounds like a bummer. Blechk.
Hugs if you want ’em.
IF fan
I have been doing it for 2 years, with great results. First off, start slow. You can try to break your fast as early as 10 am, and then finish eating for the day at 7 pm. Once you’re able to do that, gradually move to breaking your fast to 10:30 am, then 11 am, then 12 pm, then 1 pm (if you want).
Some people choose to eat breakfast but skip dinner (or eat a really early dinner). So that way you could eat something around 8 am or 9 am, and wrap up dinner by 5 pm. The beauty with IF is that it is very flexible.
When you are fasting, be sure to drink lots of water and stay hydrated. I also agree on eating protein rich foods for dinner so that you are not as hungry the day after.
Try it for a few weeks. If it continues to be really hard, stop. It’s not for everyone, but personally, I feel amazing and it’s the only way I was able to lose about 10 pounds (and keep it off). Good luck.
Anon
This shirt looks pretty great to me – like from the pictures it actually looks like quality wise it should cost $82, which to me is a lot for one top to me. Although the brand seems to bill itself as “quality basics”based on the clothing on the website, I have to say that I’m really enthused on their model choices. They have women that I feel like a lot of people can relate to: prettier than average but not stop on the street stunning, closer to average height (they post the model heights which are 5″4 to 5″8 for the most part), and are what I’d say is a readily attainable size for a woman of average build – and I say this not trying to be sizeist but more speaking to that the models aren’t super thin, super muscular, or necessarily plus size, they look like the type of body that a 30 yr old that eats reasonably well, exercises when she can, and goes to happy hour – the models look like peers.
Anonymous
I have purchased a few items from this brand and the quality and customer service is very good. I like supporting women-owned brands focused on quality and am ok with paying a little more to do so.
Anon
I shop from this brand regularly and am in the facebook group they have for frequent customers. They actually have chosen at least one of the models from the facebook group. The others are college students I think. Everything I’ve gotten from them has been very well made and versatile.
anonynyc
Anyone have recommendations for a career couch/counselor in NYC? I’ve been working in project management in gvt for the last 5 years. I need to get out, but I can’t figure out what I want to do next, I feel like talking to someone would really help.
Anonymous
Emily Conroe at Volta.
...
Kara Loewentheil
Anon
I would be interested in this as well – how much does something like this cost?
Go for it
Following with interest…..
I looked up Kara~it appears to be $149 per session~ whom you chose as a coach will be predicated by the issue you present. Assuming costing will also vary and decidedly would be well spent. YMMV.
Anonymous
Has anyone had surgery for a ganglion cyst in their wrist? What does recovery look like? I have one that is annoying — it interferes with my ability to do yoga and weight-bearing exercises on my wrist link planks or push-ups, although I can do them with modifications, so it’s not the end of the world. However, it doesn’t really change the way I live my life otherwise. I’m thinking I may have surgery to get it removed once my toddler is older and I can afford to deal with keeping it immobilized for however long recovery takes, but it’s sort of a nice-to-have.
Veronica Mars
Have you gotten it aspirated with a needle yet? I’d see how long in between aspirations you can go and that might make sense to just go to your PCP 1/quarter for a 15-minute aspiration. Also make sure they follow up with a steroid injection into the spot. Mine was successfully treated the first time with an aspiration+steroid shot. I think it’s something like 20-30% of cases will respond similarly.
Diana Barry
I had this in both wrists. YMMV but it totally depends on where the cyst is and the healing process. The one on my L wrist was basically right where you measure your pulse, and stuck out. It didn’t hurt at the time I got it taken out (I was 15) and recovery was super quick and easy. Not arthroscopic.
The one in my R wrist I had when my first was a baby (and right before that). I had *actual pain* in that wrist, first just during yoga and planks, but then it would hurt whenever I was bending my wrist a lot. I had it taken out when my baby was 7 months, I think? which I wouldn’t recommend (I had a block and a local, not general, so that I could keep nursing and didn’t have to pump and dump – the nurses all thought I was nuts, LOL). Arthroscopic and I went to the Patriots surgeon. HOWEVER! Recovery was much longer, that wrist is now noticeably weaker than the other one (I did get PT/OT after the surgery, query whether those people were any good or not?), and I think I had/have a lot of scar tissue in there that was still causing pain like 3 years later. I went back to the surgeon and got another MRI and there was no cyst left, just scar tissue. Now (10 years later) it is fine but I have to be really careful with that wrist, like I don’t scoop ice cream any more and I avoid doing a lot of chopping veggies, etc. (I am right handed).
Ask your surgeon re: whether they ever drain the cysts instead. My sister had one and they just drained it (twice IIRC) and that was (1) much less invasive and (2) she didn’t have any residual pain. If I had to do it over again I would have tried to drain the one on the R side first before getting the surgery.
Anonymous
OP here — thanks for the advice. I obviously don’t want to trade in a mildly annoying problem for a worse problem! I should have mentioned that the orthopedist I saw about this a few years ago aspirated it and gave me a cortisone injection, but the cyst came right back, unfortunately.
Veronica Mars
I’d keep trying with the aspiration, in that case.
Anonymous
I had one and was discouraged by the doctor from having surgery. I had it examined because I was concerned about it based on internet information, not because it was impeding me in any way. It has gone away on its own, so I am really glad I didn’t have surgery.
Anon
I have one, or it may be the similar tendon cyst (a distinction my doctor says is minor and that many doctors don’t make.) Mine comes and goes. I’m very aware of it when it’s big but no one else seems to notice it.
Anon0321
I am usually not into fooey stuff, but I had acupuncture done on one I had in college (I had actually scheduled surgery!) and after the acupuncturist showed me how to massage it- and it went away! And it hasn’t come back- which surprised me because I am generally prone to cysts. Just figured I’d throw that out there in case you are interested in alternative ways of dealing with them. I did have a ovarian cyst removed during my c section and it returned a few months later.
anon
i’m in need of a new phone. does anyone know if apple plans on releasing one this fall or should i just get one now? all i care about is a better camera/portrait mode. which phone should i get?
Anonymous
I think they do at least a slightly upgraded version every fall?
For best camera, the XS is incredible.
Cat
Given your context, the only reason to wait is that there may be a price drop on older models if a new one is announced in the fall. All phones have an improved camera with portrait mode now (it was added with the 7 I think?) so maybe go to the Apple store / cell retail store and see which one is most comfortable in your hand?
Anon
Portrait mode is only in the Pluses AFIK – I have the regular 8 and I don’t have it (I think it’s also available on the X).
Anon
It’s definitely available on the regular X.
CountC
There is one where the portrait mode only works for human faces. Because I am a crazy dog mom, that didn’t work for me!
Anon
Portrait mode is definitely on the X and it’s definitely the one that works on more than just human faces.
– Somebody who has taken probably 2,000 portrait mode photos of her beautiful cat
Anon
The X has a portrait mode that works on animals. I use it on my dog a lot.
Anon
I have the X and took a pic in portrait mode of my cat. Said photo won a local contest! So now my cat is famous thanks to portrait mode, and of course, his inherent, chubby handsomeness.
Keek
I am team iPhone for lyfe but H has a Pixel 3 and the photos are so insanely good.
Anon.
Seriously love my Pixel 3 – great photos and portrait mode.
anonandon
Pixel 3a is only 399 and has the same camera! (I have the 3 and I LOVE it.)
Parent hobbies update
I posted a few weeks ago about my husband’s golf habit and the resentment it was causing. I saw the request for an update yesterday later in the day so I figured I’d post today. I’m not the poster whose husband was going on trips – he just wants to play every weekend.
First, I could not believe how many comments the post received (over 100!) and how fired up people seemed to be about it. I did not agree with the comments suggesting that he didn’t want to be with the kids and was using that as a way to avoid time with us. He is a very dedicated person and gets a lot of fulfillment from setting and achieving goals. That’s one of the things I love about him. I totally get the idea expressed in the comments that when you have two young kids and two working parents, it’s not the time to improve your golf game, but on the other hand I have my own hobbies that I enjoy and I get value from, so my thoughts were more in line with the commentators who appreciated that hobbies (and adults who happen to be parents also being happy and fulfilled) are important. My purpose in posting was to get ideas for how to make it work and feel better about it.
All that being said, I showed my husband the entire thread and we had a few conversations about it. We’ve made a few changes that have really improved things. He’s playing every Sunday at the earliest tee time he can get. So he leaves at 6 am and is done by 11. The rest of the day is family time. I’ve been taking Saturday mornings to do my thing, which right now is training for a half marathon. I used to feel extreme pressure to fit my training into a 5-7 am window to be home before the kids wake up, which made me tired and resentful. I’ve allowed myself to get over that. I’ve taken time to visit trails that are a bit farther away and have stopped for breakfast after my run too. I was always resistant to the Saturday AM is my time and Sunday AM is his time idea because I felt we wouldn’t have enough family time, but it feels like we do. Obviously this schedule will change based on activities and events but setting it up like this when we can takes a lot of the planning stress and resentment out of it.
I really appreciated all of responses and different perspectives.
Suburban
Thanks for the update! I’m really glad you were able to work out a way to do both of your hobbies! Good luck in your half marathon training!
Anon
I’m so glad you came back for an update and found something that works for both of you. You’re killing it training for a half marathon with a young kid! #momgoals
JTM
This is a great update.
I missed the original question but I’m going to weigh in now – my husband plays golf every weekend and goes to the range 1-2x/wk after work. In his case, he’s trying to make the Korn Ferry Tour (like the minor leagues for pro golf) so he needs to put the time in. If he golfs on Sunday, that means I get the equivalent amount of time away on Saturday to do whatever I want. On the weeknights that he goes to the range, he makes dinner before he leaves and I feed our daughter. We’ve had this system for the past 2 years and it’s worked well for us. it also helps that we live in the Midwest so golf season isn’t all-year; he does visit the indoor range in the winter but that’s usually 1x/week.
Never too many shoes...
This is such a great update! Good luck on your training.
Anon
Thanks so much for the update. I am so impressed at how you two worked through that situation. Good luck!
Anonymous
This is A+ adulting and parenting. I’m so glad to hear you’ve found a schedule that works for both of you!
Anonymous
DC haircut help needed — I have thin, fine hair and my stylist just left the area. (well she left earlier in the year and I’ve been putting off a hair cut) I’m getting married in September and desperately need a cut before then. Any suggestions/help? Willing to travel within the area and slightly desperate! Bonus points if I can get a single process color there but not a big deal if I can’t.
Anonymous
I have thick, fine hair, and I have been really happy with Katie Mayfield at Bang on U Street. She’s really a wizard at coloring/highlights for blondes, but also does a very good haircut – she’s great at listening.
Feeling Defeated
Having a crappy day.
Anon
Need a hug?
Rainbow Hair
Is there something nice you can look forward to? Buy yourself a nice drugstore lippie on your way home from work? An hour of your favorite TV show when you get home? Make a coffee date with a buddy for Saturday AM?
lsw
I’m sorry. Hugs. Fancy ice cream or coffee drink to look forward to?
Sparky
Turning 30 in January (and while I am not having a panic attack about getting older I just got out of a 3 year relationship, thank you hive for suggesting I move on from the last one, and I’m looking to do something for me) I’m working on putting together a 30 before 30 bucket list and thought reaching out to the hive could be a fun thread. Any ideas? (No international travel because of my status in the US else the list would likely have 30 cities on it)
Anonymous
Set up a 401k
Figure out how to regularly contribute to charity
Anon
It depends on what you like to do/what skills you have. I had a similar list, and it included both fun things I wanted to do and stuff that would make me feel like a “real adult.” Examples included:
– set up a non-retirement investment account
– learn to make 12 new meals (I’m not a real cooker)
– visit [city I had always wanted to see]
– try rock climbing
– decorate my living room (i.e., have a grown-up living room, instead of the college kid one I still had)
– make a real budget, and learn to stick to it
– go whitewater rafting
Gail the Goldfish
This doesn’t have to be just an under-30 thing by any means, but are you at all outdoorsy? If so, some of the National Parks! Yosemite is incredible (though I was struggling some even at a somewhat-in-shape 31 with the full Mist Trail hike–up was fine, but down from Nevada Falls was a struggle on my knee (turns out I might have IT band issues, but that’s another story)).
Anon
Lol I thought I was in shape and that hike had me hobbled for a day. So. many. stairs….
Hollis
I’d like to sell some of my nicer, but not fitting perfectly workwear (Boss, BR, Theory) online just to recoup some of the costs. I’ve hated using ebay in the past (the website has not improved at all in the last 15 years and it’s never clear to me how much they will retain from a sale), so I’m looking for an alternative. Would Poshmark be the best and easiest? I like how they create the labels for you.
BabyAssociate
For the Boss and Theory you could try the Real Real.
Anon
I’m wearing an unusually (for me) fitted dress today and feeling weirdly self-conscious about it. The neckline and hemline are modest but I have an hourglass figure and the dress really emphasizes my curves in a way that I normally don’t at work. I know this is stupid, but can anyone reassure me that this isn’t inappropriate and I don’t have to hide my figure just because it’s not straight up and down? I’m probably imaging it but I feel like people are staring at me and I’m tempted to go home at lunch and change :/
MagicUnicorn
Tell yourself that if people are staring it is because they admire how you are rocking that dress!
I felt weirdly self conscious and half naked going bare-legged the first few times after my office (finally) dropped nylons as a requirement of the dress code. Enough that I kept going back to nylons for a bit. But once the last pair gave out I decided not to bother replacing them and it feels totally normal and not scandalous to go bare anymore.
Anon
You exist and you have a body and that is just fine! :) I bet you look great today and totally professional and appropriate!
Suburban
Your dress sounds lovely and no body is unprofessional. Properly fitted clothing looks more polished than looser clothing. If people are looking it is because you look great!
January
I doubt people are staring at you. You may draw more attention to yourself by going home to change, which could then lead to questions about why you changed, which would also make me self-conscious.
Do you really need to see anyone today, or is today a good day to just hang out in your office and do your work?
ATL rette
Dating a new guy and we’re going to have a grilling night at home over the weekend. I told him I would prep if he would grill, but now I don’t know what to make. I was thinking tacos—grilled chicken, some sort of veggie slaw and a salad?
Does anyone have a good meat marinade for tacos? Open to chicken, beef, pork or shrimp or a mix!
Or if you have any other can’t-miss grill recipes, let me know! I don’t have a grill so I never think about grilled anything.
Anon
I’ve had great success with the alton brown steak fajita marinade (but I just grill it regularly instead of his preferred system).
Original Moonstone
Steaks. Steaks are the recipe. You can rub some olive oil and black pepper on it, if you want to.
Anon
Yes, buy a good steak like a rib eye and don’t marinate it. Marinades are for tougher pieces of meat. A rib eye just needs salt and pepper or some steak seasoning.
Bring the steak to room temp for about 1/2 hour before grilling.
Preheat grill for 10-15 minutes. (Even if the grill comes to temp before then, you want those cast iron grates to be thoroughly heated to give you nice grill marks)
Pat steaks dry with a paper towel. Apply salt and pepper or steak rub liberally.
Grill 4ish minutes each side, turning only the one time, until internal temp is 125-130. Let steaks rest 5-10 minutes before serving.
Use this time to toss a salad, preferably with ranch dressing made from the hidden valley buttermilk recipe packet, fresh buttermilk, and Best Foods/Hellman’s mayonnaise. Salad should be crisp lettuce, cucumber slices, and halved cherry tomatoes. Toss with dressing, don’t serve dressing on the side. This makes all the difference.
If you’re feeling very hungry, also make some garlic bread.
This is a California steak dinner.
Anon
Ps I should add that it would be even more Californian if you served a pot of pinquito beans on the side, but that’s much more involved and it’s better when you’re feeding a crowd.
Triangle Pose
Agree, I buy filet mignon from the Amish butcher near me (they deliver from the farmers market on mercato) and I’m never going back and never eating at a steakhouse again. It’s maybe an $10-13 cut of very high quality meat, does not need marinate and comes out perfect.