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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This twisted tee from T by Alexander Wang is one of the bestsellers at Bloomingdale's right now, and I like how the little twisted detail on the front elevates a basic, simple look. Note that the shirt does have banded trim, so it's definitely on the more casual side, but in general, it's a great t-shirt. It's machine washable, too. I think it looks like a nice basic to wear under blazers and with trousers and skirts if you like very simple, classic style. It's $187.50 (sale price) at Bloomingdale's and is $125 at Net-a-Porter in lucky sizes only. (The white version is available in lucky sizes only at Neiman Marcus for $97.60). Twisted Jersey Tee
You can find more affordable alternatives in both regular and plus sizes at Bloomingdale's as well.
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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Other colors?
I like this style but it would disappear under my blazers, and not in a good way. (I work in a harshly lit courthouse where it takes a lot of color to look alive.) Does anyone have suggestions for a similar top in other colors or fabrics?
Leah
Velvet by Graham and Spencer makes this silhouette in both short and long sleeves. The drawback is that there is a center seam down the front, and the fabric is extremely thin.
Housecounsel
Today’s shirt looks weirdly short to me.
Ellen
And it is a tee shirt, after all; and at $187.50 on sale, Dad would have my tuchus in a sling! FOOEY, Kat!!!!
I wonder if the rest of the hive is paying attention to the price of this shirt! DOUBEL FOOEY!
Dad slipped on the ice this morning and he landed on his tuchus. Lucky we have alot of padding back there but he is still grumbling b/c the guy who was supposed to come by to look at the snow, did not b/c there was no snow, but there was ICE and that is what he slipped on. Dad should be more careful, I told mom, and I told him that at least he landed on his tuchus rather then on his elbow. YAY!!
AZCPA
Ann Taylor makes a similar shirt that I wear all the time – I think it was a Frugal Friday pick a while back.
Cat
I love the tailoring on this, but balk at spending THAT much money on what is ultimately black cotton — even the best quality won’t hold its color well enough to justify the price!
Question for the hive — we are considering a switch to Fios given their current promo pricing. The highest g00gle results are for what appears to be a Fios reseller as opposed to Verizon itself. How do people usually purchase? I’d ask Verizon directly but pretty sure they’d tell me of course buying directly is best…
Anon
I have food, and purchased directly from Verizon. I didn’t actually know it was possible to purchase from a reseller, but also don’t see what the benefit of that would be
Anonymous
This typo is cracking me up. I don’t know anything about Fios, but I had a much better experience dealing with a Verizon vendor (I think it was called PagePlus?) for my cellphone years ago than with Verizon itself. I would not eat anything Verizon sold me. So if it’s legit, it may actually be a perk, unless Verizon’s customer service has gotten better since then.
Anonymous
I would be suspicious about customer service and tech support when purchasing through a reseller.
Share a Money-Related Secret!
Let’s talk about money… how you spend it, how you save it, what you do with it, what you do about it, etc. etc.! What are the money-related secrets you keep?
Anonymous
no.
HSAL
Yeah, this kind of reads like someone crowdsourcing for a clickbait article.
Anonymous
I feel there is someone on this blog who asks a lot of these types of questions (maybe they are blogging or writing articles as a freelance writer and want ideas to help them get started writing)
Inspired By Hermione
It’s also just asking people to brag about how smart (read: privileged) they are because they save $2,000 a month and just don’t understand why others aren’t good enough at watching their money to do the same!!
Rainbow Hair
Ha, fact.
Anon
I was a shopping addict who racked up a lot of credit card debt in my twenties. Now I stay organized by having a separate account for certain things. I keep a savings account for my pets and only withdraw for vet visits/their emergencies. I give myself a shopping allowance and put that in a separate account and use that debit card for fun shopping only. Separate Christmas savings account, separate emergency savings, etc.
Your Friendly Furloughed Fred
Savings are a wonderful thing to have. I’m a furloughed fed and although it stings to take money out of savings and put them in my checking account to pay my bills, I appreciate that I have the money to do that. We’ll be ok for up to 6 months. We saved for our children’s college and I’ve gotten my daughter through 5 years of undergrad (two diplomas) and 2 years of graduate school without her needing loans; she did have scholarships. My son is 3 years into undergrad and has another 3 semesters to go, and the money is sitting there waiting for the bills. My retirement is topped up and there are savings on top of that. We’ve paid ourselves first every time. We use credit cards like debit cards, noting each expense and paying the total each month. We drive old cars. We don’t eat out a lot. We buy our clothes on sale. There are no secrets.
In-House in Houston
I give myself a cash allowance each payday, that pays for lunches, coffee, treats, etc. until the next payday. The day before the next payday, I take any leftover cash and put it away. There’s usually at least $100 left. Then I use that when I travel or if something unexpected comes up. This is outside of my other savings, just a little slush fund of cash.
KonMari Addict
How much do you take out and how often are your paydays? I love this idea!
In-House in Houston
I take out $400 each payday and I get paid 2xmonth. Out of that $400 I pay for my cleaning lady who only takes cash, and then all of my lunches (not every day, I bring leftovers at least 2xweek), happy hours, special coffee (I usually make it at home in the morning). I also buy lottery tickets with this money. I usually have at least $100 left over. I never count money until I need to use it. I just shove it all in the same (secret) place and then when I need it, the fun is counting all of the wads of $20 bills.
Anonymous
Just by packing my lunch, making my own coffee, buying my clothes at thrift stores, and having my husband cut my hair, I have managed to amass a $10 million stock portfolio by age 30. If you are willing to make the same small sacrifices, you can do it, too!
Anon
+1
FrugalSue
Don’t forget buying 2-ply toilet paper, but unrolling it into 2 rolls of 1-ply! it’s like you got a free roll!
Anonymous
ha ha ha ha
Anon
I pack my lunch every day. Where’s my 10 million dollars??
Anon
Make fun, but savers are the ones laughing all the way to the bank.
Inspired By Hermione
Savings are not to the tune of $10M for people who save even $100 a week by bringing coffee and packing lunch.
Anon
If you spend $13/day on lunch out 20 days a month for 12 months a year, you would save $3,120 in the first year and $31,200 over ten years, not counting interest rate or investment returns. Just because it isn’t literally $10 million instantly doesn’t mean small savings don’t matter or add up. That’s over 30,000 from ONE potential life change.
Anonymous
You don’t actually save $13/day by bringing your own lunch. The food you bring from home costs money, too.
Shopaholic
Anon that math is not right. You would not save the whole $13 because presumably, even bringing lunch from home is not free, although yes it’s obviously more cost effective than buying lunch out everyday.
Anonymous
This is the calculation for SKIPPING lunch and not making it up in other meals/snacks.
Anon
The lunch is just one example. Of course you still have to buy food at the store and make it from home, but it’s still a big savings. You can try the math with permanently cutting out your biweekly manicure, your perfume, whatever you want. The point is that small savings add up, not that cutting out lunches will save every reader exactly $31,200 in ten years.
Inspired By Hermione
She literally said “just” by doing these things she’s saved $10M and that if you’re willing to “make the same small sacrifices” you can too.
Anonymous
Hermione, I think she is making fun of the Frugalwoods discussion from last week.
Inspired By Hermione
Missed that one. Thanks, Anon.
Anon
LOL, no, you’re not going to become a millionaire by giving yourself a crappy haircut.
Anon
Haha! I love this. Yes the little costs can add up but the real way to save money is to (1) make more money and/or (2) cut back on the big expenses (housing, cars, etc.). Cutting out avocado toast isn’t going to magically create a down payment, but articles about all these little changes (just cut cable, just cancel your subscription, just eliminate Starbucks) make it seem like not having a huge safety net is some sort of moral failing or lack of impulse control. If you can’t move, have student loan payments and can’t change jobs easily (read most people), you probably already cut cable, don’t go to Starbucks and still don’t have a huge amount of savings.
Anon
Eh, idk about that. I know a lot of people with tons of student loan debt who live way beyond their means, including one person with just over $500K in debt (probably higher with interest now) who started talking about buying an apartment in Manhattan the second he finally got a job as a lawyer. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t cutting out Starbucks either.
Anon
I think even that person isn’t going to erase that $500k debt by cutting small expenses. My friends who paid off their loans early were the ones who chose cheaper housing and skipped fancy vacations. They still indulged in small things on occasion. On the flip side, I have plenty of friends who still have piles of debt, live in super fancy apartments and complain about not being able to afford happy hour, etc. their happy hour habits aren’t keeping them from paying down their debt, the high rise doorman big apartment in a desirable neighborhood is. Giving up one or two of those things would give them 1-2k more a month. My point wasn’t that people don’t spend foolishly on small things. Just that we tend to ignore the bigger items probably because it’s more uncomfortable to talk about. My friends could easily save a lot of money by moving apartments. Not everyone can just find cheaper housing though. I find the comments on penny pinching to be pretty classist as they assume a certain amount of disposable income. For high earners though, yes I think there is a lot of practical advice out there
Anon
People think frugality means deprivation, but to me, it’s freedom to watch my savings grow. If my paycheck were late, it’d be nbd. Electric bill higher this month? Who cares. Surprise $4,000 vet bill? Would be a bummer for my cat, but a non-event financially. Saving gives me choices and I’m not even anywhere near as extreme as many of the bloggers out there. I still have some expensive hobbies, but I can afford them comfortably. I wasn’t always in this position, but I am now and it is very helpful for my piece of mind.
Mexico City
Heading to Mexico City for a last minute long weekend. Any recommendations/tips/things we shouldn’t miss? Looking to do some exploring but mostly relax and eat all the delicious food.
Anonymous
CDMX is great! If you’re not already staying there, walk around Condessa/Roma. There is no way to get a reservation at Pujol or Quintonil unless you’re magic at this point… but a great restaurant is Zefiro near Centro Historico. They are part of a cooking school, so it is a bargain on top of being delicious. Also in Centro Historico is a joint called Cafe Tacuba, it is very famous for a reason. Food there is great too. The Anthropology Museum is a must-see and it is basically in Chapultapec Park which is worth walking around. See a show at Bellas Atres if you can. Taxis in CDMX tend to be kind of a mess, but there are plenty of Ubers. Go shopping to, there is a great design culture in CDMX and the prices are a bargain.
east coaster
La Pitahaya in Roma/Condesa area, if you’re looking for an amazing vegan meal.
I was there for a long weekend last fall. We did one day trip to the pyramids (worth it if you have time, but if you’re just there 2-3 days maybe not). Then I had 2 full days just wandering around – one day in Roma/Condesa, one day in Coyoacon (including a visit to the Frida Kahlo museum). I wish I had taken the metro to more neighborhoods. It was easy to navigate with google maps (non-spanish speaker so I couldn’t rely as much on signage/asking for help). I used uber to get to/from the airport which reduced a lot of stress I normally have with trying to talk to a cab driver in another language.
Anon
Agree with the previous poster that a Pujol reservation might be tough at this point, but you could probably swing a dinner reservation at Dulce Patria, which I personally like even better. The pyramids are amazing, but are a full day activity. If you go to the pyramids, bring water and sunscreen and ideally hats. Frida’s house/museum was much more interesting than I expected, but it is often a PROCESS to get in. I’ve never been able to get the online ticket option to work for me; if you can’t get tickets online, plan to arrive a half hour before they open or risk waiting for a very long time. Echoing the recommendation for the anthropology museum – one of the best museums I’ve been to anywhere.
The Churreria El Moro (various locations) are amazing churros and chocolate. Helado Obscuro (also various locations) have fun, alcoholic ice creams. The Zocalo and historic center is very beautiful, but go during the day and don’t wander too far east. I’ve heard great things about El Cardenal’s brunch menu (there is a location near the historic center).
Anon
Not on topic but there is a baseball player with the last name Pujol. He was on the visiting team of a game we attended. My teenage son was CRACKING UP every time they said his name as he came up to bat, and I guess I am now a teenage boy too because I did the same when I saw your post.
Where Macros and Calories Meet
Question for those who track macros: I’m finally at a good place of staying within my calorie budget for the day and generally trying to be low-carb and low-sugar. However, my fat usually hovers around 50%, protein 20-30%, and carbs 20-30% which just seems way off base. I use my fitness pal so I’ve been looking up individual items and trying to make easy swaps like chicken instead of red meat to up my protein and reduce the fat but I’m wondering if there are other easy swaps or if I need to overhaul my diet. I worked with a nutritionist before my wedding but all the things she seemed to approve of aren’t aligning with a good macro count now that I’m aware of macros (e.g., eggs, nut butters, rx bars, salmon, hummus with veggies). I already do a lot of salads and vegetables but if anyone has balanced recipes or ideas here, it would all be much appreciated!
busybee
Is there a reason you want to have less than 50% fat? I don’t track macros per se, but I’d estimate that about half my calories come from fat too. Fat isn’t a bad thing–I’m very slim and in excellent health, and eating fat is the only way I can avoid being hungry all the time. As long as the fat isn’t all saturated, I wouldn’t worry about it. It sounds like you’re already eating a balanced diet.
Anon
Dittoing busybee – if you’re comfortable with your diet and health levels, then 50% fat might not be a bad thing.
I’m trying to lose weight and what works best for me when I do that is 40% protein, 30% fat, and 30% carbs. Some high protein, low fat snacks like to eat (at the advice of my trainer, who had like, nutrition training but wasn’t certified, I think?) – hard boiled egg whites, tuna with mustard instead of mayo. Also the portion size of healthy snacks was important – I think a serving of almonds is like 28, but I usually had 10.
Anon
I thought we were all supposed to be eating high-fat, high-protein these days? You sound like you’re doing well.
Anonymous
I thought getting more protein than you need could be hard on your body. Getting the extra calories from fat sounds ideal.
Anon
There are nutritionists who specialize in macros! Your macros might change day by day, too. Example: on days I’m really active cycling, my carb % shoots up and then I recover with a lot of protein, so my fat % falls. They can help you figure out how to reach your goals with macros, be it weight loss, building strength, etc, how to structure your eating depending on what you’re doing that day, give you ideas of what to eat to hit your macros.
+1
My macro templates are from RP Strength (you can hire 1:1 coaching from their dietitians) and they account for training days, non-training days, light training days, heavy days, etc., and also for when in the day I will be active. If you’re not a huge workout person, they also have healthy eating templates that do not account for anything other than healthy eating.
Basically, I leave it to the professionals to adjust my macros.
Faux Fur jacket that are actually warm
Does anyone have a recently-purchased faux fur jacket that is actually warm? I need something that I can wear to a fancy event inside an aircraft hangar at night where it will be chilly. I need something that I can both wear there and possibly keep on while looking good.
[I have a sense that faux fur is not warm at all, but I bet there are maybe some that have a good Thinsulate lining.]
lydia
I purchased one at a random boutique (spontaneous splurge) and am surprised at how warm it is. Sometimes too warm inside (e.g. at a movie theater) so I think it would be perfect for an aircraft hanger. A friend who also got a fake fur coat has similarly commented on it being surprisingly warm.
Anonymama
There are a lot of sort of fleece-y ones around now that are quite warm. https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/tayberry-faux-fur-coat?category=jackets-coats&color=061&type=DEFAULT
Leah
I just browsed the recent post about thermals. Can anyone comment on the Uniqlo leggings? I like the idea of a layer that is tight all the way down as opposed to bulky thermals with an ankle cuff…I’m just really turned off by the brand’s junky, amateur-looking website. Is this stuff actually good quality? If so, which version/style is best?
Also considering fleece-lined leggings…any favorites?
Anonymous
For heavy-duty fleece-lined leggings, I have gotten them in prior years from Athleta and LL Bean. I wear them for ice-skating and going outside with my kids (b/c while it’s cold, my activity level is pretty low and I hate freezing).
Anonymous
I can’t comment on the leggings, but I think the website’s look is intentional. I think of Uniqlo as “accessibly priced, reliable basics for young urbanites.” I think they borrow a little from Muji (another, higher end “Japanese life essentials” brand). I think of Uniqlo as higher quality than European mall stores (like H&M or Mango). I think of them as probably lower quality than “GAP in the 90s” which is a comparison I’ve seen drawn.
Leah
This is excellent context, thank you for sharing.
Anon
I don’t think their website is amateur. Their leggings run bit short. The Heattech stuff is designed to be worn as a layer, not on its own. I would wear it under regular clothing rather than for skiing or activities like that.
Equestrian Attorney
I have worn the heattech leggins under ski pants with no complaints. I’m sure there are better products out there but they are good value for money.
Anon
Uniqlo is a large, well known brand. I have no affiliation and am not even a customer, but c’mon
Anon
Seriously.
OP, if you’re too good for their website than buy something else.
Not Really
Do you have any tech experience? I do. A poorly-put together website is often insecure on the back-end as well.
Anon
It’s not a poorly put together website, OP just doesn’t think it looks nice enough. OP is probably old and not very hip.
Leah
Is 32 old? If so, *shrug*
As for hip, I’m literally asking about long underwear. Your instinctive response was to lick company boot. Neither of us is headed to Fashion Week.
LifeScienceMBA
The thermo underwear from UNIQLO is awesome. Affordable and durable. I have thermo camis from 6 years ago that are still going strong, no fading or losing shape. Also, highly recommend their merino wool (sweaters, sweater dresses, cardigans).
Z
Uniqlo has really good quality for the price. If I had unlimited money, I would probably go with Icebreaker or whatever is best rated at REI, but Uniqlo is fantastic and warm and only costs $10-15 for a pair of leggings. You can’t wear their regular heattech stuff by itself (it’s not opaque enough, though the fleece-lined ultra warm heattech might be), but it’s thin, light, and smooth enough that it’s easy to layer with. I even wear heattech leggings under other leggings for warmth.
BB
As someone who has bought both the $20 Uniqlo and the $70 Patagonia/Icebreaker thermals, I have to say that the Uniqlos totally hold their own. It’s probably like 90% as good as the higher end ones, but a fraction of the price. I also like that they are silky, so your outerwear doesn’t catch on them like they do with wool.
Z
Yeah, that is one of the best features. No bunching up as you pull pants over them, even with skinny jeans, and no added bulk.
I do like my Icebreaker merino wool leggings. They’re not as easy to wear as heattech, but they’re great for camping/longer trips because they can be worn as a base layer for multiple days without getting smelly.
anon
The Regular uniqulo leggings are pretty thin. Great for under other pants. I wear them around the house, but not out as they are a little see through.
The uniqlo extra warm leggings are thick enough to wear outside on a moderately cold day and are not see through. Their heattech tights are great too.
Fishie
I’m wearing Uniqlo cashmere today and I am shocked at how well it is holding up over several wears (no instantaneous pilling like my cashmere from a store that rhymes with Schmordstrom). I also have 2 heat-tech undershirts that I love.
Anon
I have a Uniqlo cashmere cardigan that was pawed by my friend’s dog when he tried to greet me and it miraculously shows no sign of pilling or scratches.
anon in brooklyn
My Uniqlo sweaters hold up better than any of my sweaters from fancier stores.
The math of spendy 'hoods
I feel that this shows my ignorance but I come from generations of people who didn’t have a lot of money. I live in a fancy suburb now, but in a very non-fancy house. I drive an older paid-off van. My kids go to public school. IMO, when I bought there, houses were expensive b/c the schools were good. Now, it seems that none of my neighbors actually use those schools. And houses that are sold move-in-ready get hundreds of thousands of dollars of work done to them before people move in. And the people who move in seem to be barely 30 (one working spouse (sometimes with a PT nanny), kids in private schools, not driving older paid-off van). My guess is that maybe the household mandatory payments are something like 6-8K (mortgage), 3-5K (private school), 1-2K (cars), and that is before you’ve bought groceries. I feel like it will always be 2009 for me — if I lost my job, no family could bail me out and no job checking out groceries or babysitting (my two prior jobs) would pay well enough to eat, much less keep a roof over my head. Does everyone but me have a trust fund? [And b/c I work, and most women in my ‘hood don’t, I don’t really know people and have been too busy burning the candle at both ends to really get to know people. I feel like I’ve been dropped in a bit of a foreign culture to me and b/c I can’t meet for yoga at 10am I will never have a friend here.]
Anon
Family money. A lot of people get help from their parents.
Anonymous
Do they? For all of this?
I guess I expect that wealthy parents help their kid buy a house (maybe giving the downpayment or co-signing), but would they also realistically give you $ for private school tuition every kid every year for 13 years? I know that there is a gift tax exclusion for spending for school, but IDK that that many people would realistically provide it (in my city, private school per kid is like 15-20K per year, which I can’t imagine that that many people actually have). Maybe I just don’t have people like that in my circles.
Anonymous
Yes. Exactly. Rich people love paying for private school tuition for their grandkids.
Anonymous
Also for extracurriculars. When my daughter was younger, I was blown away by how many parents casually mentioned that their own parents were footing the bill for ballet or gymnastics or piano.
anon
Yes. I am an only child, and my parents are wealthy–not the level of wealth you describe, but wealthy enough to help support me and my family. My parents bought me a brand-new car when I graduated from high school, which I’m still driving 16 years later, paid for my education, helped me pay off my student loans, gave us a down payment for a house last year, and (at least for now) pay for my kid’s private school. I am an only child, and I have one child, and they have enough money to be able to afford this. They likely couldn’t give this level of support to multiple children/grandchildren, and I don’t know if they’ll continue paying for the school my kid is in for years–the school gets more expensive, and public and less expensive private school options get better.
Anonymous
My parents have 6 grandkids, so obs aren’t doing this. They may send us $3K/year/kid for college funds, but that would maybe pay for 1 grandkid’s private school.
+1
I grew up very low income. My SO did not. While they are not crazy wealthy, he is the youngest and removed in age from siblings by a significant amount. He is also the only child of one of his parents, so his parents help put us through school, paid for our rent for a while while in school, bought him a car, offer to pay for things like moving costs and relocations, sometimes they just put money in an account they’ve had since he was in college for a date night or whatever it might be. They are also putting money away for a down payment for us.
We live within our means and can now afford all of these things, but they still love to help us and sometimes do so without being asked, like saving for our down payment. It’s incredibly privileged and still blows my mind that much of the reason why we are where we are today is because of their generosity.
Anonymous
Boomers accumulated unprecedented amounts of wealth in the stock market and real estate. Their parents were the first generation to spend the end of their lives in nursing homes/memory care facilities/etc. with extremely high end of life expenses– the boomers watched their parents’ (relatively modest) life savings get spent down before medicare kicked in to cover the end of life care. Those boomers are currently hitting the age where they need to take mandatory distributions from their IRAs/401(k)s that they might not need to spend to fund their day to day expenses. Many, many boomer grandparents would prefer that their money go towards current expenses like private school rather than get wiped out by end of life medical expenses.
Anonymous
Honestly, I think that boomers had better check their statements and projections better. I am grateful that my parents and MIL have good savings and paid-off houses, but there is still a risk that they would outlive their $ (and if their minds/bodies don’t give out at the same time, care is PRICEY and not optional). Add in grand-child-support and that risk is magnified.
Anonymous
Which will be awesome when everyone gets to pay for it through their taxes.
Anonymous
I’m anon at 10:38 – I don’t dispute that Boomers are likely making decisions that 1) prioritize themselves individually over the collective and 2) are frighteningly optimistic– that’s kind of their mode of operation. They’re the Me generation.
Senior Attorney
I am a boomer and I don’t know anybody who thinks like this. Granted, I don’t have any grandchildren (yet) but I can’t imagine spending my money on my children/grandchildren with the intent to bankrupt myself at the end of my life. That just seems insane. My parents are both in their mid-to-late 90s and showing every inclination to outlive their money, and it ain’t gonna be pretty when that happens. I certainly don’t want that to happen to me, and the idea of doing it on purpose, decades before the fact, is mind-boggling.
Anonymous
This is insightful. I’m watching a boomer relative blow through his estate for dementia care at an insane rate–no doubt the family peers are thinking something similar.
Anon
Can we not with the broad negative generational characterizations. If I got on here and said “Millenials *big negative thing*” I’ve no doubt I would get strongly corrected about making broad, prejudicial assumptions. Boomers I know are mostly not selfish wealth accumulators with no concern for others. Millennials I know are mostly not spendy people with poor work habits and a need for a trophy. It must be unpleasant to go through life hating on a group based on the most negative examples of that group.
ER
My dad literally used this exact line of reasoning to me. He told me he would rather put money in an educational savings plan for my kids, than make sure that his end of life medical care is fully paid for. Talk about intending to put me in a tough spot when, in 15 years, my kids have too much saved up for college (in accounts that can only be used for education!) and I’m watching my parents receive inadequate end of life care.
Anon
Went to a private school that’s over 35k/year now (I think it was like 28k when I graduated). Lots of kids had some or most of the tuition paid by grandparents
Anononymous
I wouldn’t assume they all have trust funds. I’m sure some of them do, but I’m sure there are also plenty of people who either didn’t live through 2009 or didn’t learn the right lessons, and they’re spending what they earn now without worrying much about saving for a rainy day. I feel you on not being able to connect with the SAHMs though. I’m in a small Midwestern city, so we don’t really have many trust fund-types around here and most people live pretty modestly, even if they earn a lot. But almost no women work, and the fact that I can’t meet for yoga or brunch at 10 am on a weekday has definitely hugely hindered my ability to meet other women. We’re moving our kids to daycare this summer in large part so we can meet other families with two working parents. The culture gap between working parents and SAHMs is enormous, especially here where the SAHMs tend to be uniformly white, Christian and conservative (we are none of those things) and not big spenders (pretty sure our neighbors think *we’re* the trust fund types because we travel internationally every year…nope, we just have two incomes).
Anonymous
The SAHM thing is hard on my kids — they are in after-school care so can’t have playdates during the week (and to go over to a friend means that they friend has to have them over until at least 6 when I can pick up). So much grownup involvement and scheduling and kid disappointment in the elementary school years! The kids don’t know what they don’t know (and this is a crash course for them and the SAHMs on “this is how life is b/c Kate’s mom is barely hanging on at BigLaw”; I know it is a challenge for me b/c I was a free range in a small town as a teacher’s kid and I didn’t anticipate it myself even though I had two working parents my whole life).
Suburban
The other parents I’ve met a daycare are so, so, kind and understanding. It’s like a judgment free zone. I hope you meet some really nice people!
Anonymous
I had hoped for this, but it never really panned out. People come and go at different times, often in a huge rush. I had hoped for some casual chit-chat, but no one seems to be in friends-making mode. It’s all business.
Suburban
Ours was like this two until one lovely couple started a text chain and invited us over for sweat pants and kid time. I’m not close with them but they’re so nice! I think we’ll reciprocate soon!
Anon
Make it happen.
As soon as your kid is ~2yo, they’ll have a buddy or two they hang with. Ask the kid or ask the teachers. “Diego keeps saying he is playing with a good friend all day, but I can’t understand the name. Do you know what he might be saying?” Then slip a note in that kid’s cubby. “Aiden’s Parents – I’m Diego’s mom Julie. I’m going to take Diego to the indoor playground Saturday morning. Want to join us and let the boys run around together? Text me at 123-456-7890.”
I did this to maybe 5 kids in each class, each year, and got several bites. Two-working families often want to work out kid’s energy on the weekends. Of those awkward first “dates”, I now have a group of 4 other families with similar-aged kids and we hang out quite a bit. We meet at someone’s house for pizza and sweatpants every other Friday evening and it’s amazing to have a local village. Totally worth all the awkwardness and people we didn’t click with, to find the few that we did.
Anon
I posted the other day about this but it’s one of two things
1) debt
2) family money
Like you, I have neither so I just shrug and go on my way.
[you wouldn’t have much in common with the 10am yoga goers anyway]
Anon
I hate to break it to you guys, but sometimes people just do well too, aren’t in debt or over-leveraged. You might not be one of them, but just because someone is doing well doesn’t mean they didn’t earn it.
Anonymous
Sorry, but I don’t buy this. Even the people who think they are self-made get help from their parents in some way. Most of those “self-made” success stories had parents who, at the very least, paid for college. I know a couple who were actually 100% self-made. They both got scholarships and loans for in-state college and law school. The husband went into Biglaw and the wife took a job making decent but not Biglaw $$$. They were doing well by any objective standard, but simply couldn’t afford to buy a home in the Bay Area. All of the husband’s Biglaw colleagues had parental assistance with their home purchases.
Anon
This may be true but having parents fund your college education or whatever but there’s a range here. I think the commenter above is disputing the idea that everyone’s family is helping pay their mortgage/down payment/private school tuition. For example, my parents generously paid the difference between my college tuition and scholarship at my in-state public school but haven’t given me money since I graduated college other than maybe a hundred or two hundred dollar value gift (not cash) for a Christmas present each year (same for my husbabd). I took out loans for law school which I have repaid in full. My husband and I are about to buy a house with a down payment we saved by living off my salary and banking 100% of his for two years. We definitely have friends who think we have family money and we have obviously benefited from not having college student loans but we most certainly do not have any debt (other than a soon to be mortgage) or get money from our families in ten plus years.
Anonymous
Yes, but you were able to save more towards your down payment because you had no student debt.
Anonymous
This is me — the help I got from my parents in and after finishing college is a rounding error to most of my coworkers and neighbors.
Anonymous
Plenty of folks (not a huge % of the poplulation, but plenty of individuals) make more than the big law rank and file. And they didn’t have to pay for law school. Heck, I know personally injury lawyers making more than a big law fifth year. I feel like everyone on this board this is thinks big law is highest and only way to make a lot of money. So much so that if someone appears to be making more than biglaw’s lockstep they’re in debt or cheating. It’s silly. Big law pays great but there are a million ways to make more money in this world. Especially, if you’re entrepreneurial and smart.
Anon
Sure, in a sense yes. But I don’t really think the $3,000/year my parents paid ten years ago would really affect our current financial situation other than us maybe needing another few months to save for a down payment. I’m very grateful for that money but even if I’d had another $20k in loans (let’s round super duper up on interest), we still would be able to afford our house. My law school loans were around $200k and had a way higher interest rate than loans would have if I had taken out loans in college. Im not trying to discount the impact of privilege (I think nonmonetary privileges I have impacted my life way more than the college tuition payments did) but honestly some people just make a lot of money and that’s how they fund this suburb lifestyle described not by being on their parents bankroll.
Anonymous
In my area, people earn a lot more money than you’d think. Many of the husbandsnof the SAHMs are in finance or sales and pulling in over $300k/year easily. My friend got a brand new Denali with her husband’s bonus this year- those things start at like 80k.
On a $300-$350k salary, without full time childcare costs, the mortgage on a $1.3M house is totally doable. And for most people they aren’t first houses, so they had a downpayment plus equity in the house they sold.
DH and I make $350 between the two of us and even with FT childcare for 3 kids we afford our $5500/mo mortgage (includes taxes) payment. We’re mid 30s and used to have 80k in loans between us.
Rule married to the exception
It’s not most people, but it is some people. This was my husband when I met him. He went to his state school with *dozens* of scholarships and not just for academics. He had had very good grades but was from a small town and found a book at the library about being money savvy and so for a year he wrote essays and applications to every tiny organization you can think of (like churches in other states, Boy Scouts, American Legion, etc.) and got small amounts that added up to about 80% of his in-state tuition. The rest he took on loan, which he paid with part-time and summer jobs. He graduated in 2008 with about $6,000 in debt and a job working as an investment banker. He was earning a lot but spending almost nothing – he was eating all three meals at the office because he was working until 1am and lived with 3 roommates. In the meantime, he paid off his student loans and *crucially* saved a little each paycheck and invested where he could. He continued to live frugally and his salary continued to increase such that when I met him 6 years later he had just saved enough to buy himself a home and had a lot saved for retirement.
As for me, I had a trust fund and my family paid for everything until I had a salary, so we had complete oppos!te experiences, but some people really do succeed without family help. It’s a weird family dynamic, though, because his parents paid for everything for their middle child – their only daughter – and nothing for their sons. (And by that I mean even when she had a pharmacist’s salary, they continue to buy her furniture, pay for her movers, pay for her vacations with her husband… she has a bit of learned helplessness.)
Wellesley Woman
I’m in my late 30s and just bought a house in a fancy suburb (Wellesley, for those of you in the Boston area). My parents paid for my undergrad degree, but nothing else. I have no grad degree, so no debt there. I make about $375K/year, and my husband makes about half of that. While I would never say that I’m self-made, I also don’t consider myself someone who receives parental assistance.
p.s. For those of you who claim you can’t make any money without a law degree or a STEM degree, you should know my undergrad degree is from an elite school … but is in Classics.
@Wellesley Woman
Would you mind sharing what your job function is? I would find it really helpful to know if you’re in sales, or a C-suite executive, or just generally what one does to make $375k without a grad degree.
Anonymous
Good lord, what do you do to make that kind of salary with a classics degree? That’s amazing.
Anonymous
Yes! Idk why the assumptions? In my town people living like this work in finance and make bucket loads of money.
potato
DH was just interviewed for a *very* well paying job that had 100% travel. He didn’t take it – but if he had it would have meant a big upgrade in our material life, but a big downgrade in our family life. Other folks make different choices.
Anonymous
This.
Suburban
True. I have a childhood friend in an industry that just pays bonkers money. His wife doesn’t work and they drive fancy cars and have a beautiful, giant house. Their kids can go to whatever school they darn well please. My husband has a great job after a decade in big law and always says that law isn’t where the real money is made. Which is fair! Plenty of rich folks earned their money.
Anonymous
Asking for a friend — what industry pays bonkers $?
Anonymous
No one is saying that.
If you want, you can sell your house and downsize, but you can’t downsize your kids’ tuition. I know of people openly weeping during the last recession when they could no longer send their kids to Country Day in my city. When hard times came, having to pull your kids out of school seemed to be particularly shameful to people tied into that social circle (to both the parents and the kids). Often, people had no cushion and if they relied on mom and dad’s portfolio earnings for their school $, the risk was that over the kids’ school career of K-12 + college, the $ might not be there.
AnotherAnon
You’re not wrong but IME 30 somethings who are truly well to do do not live in the same neighborhoods that I do, and I consider myself well off for someone who came from nothing and started working in 2007.
Anonymous
FWIW, in my part of my city, what is my 4th (!!!) house purchased in my late 30s is across the street from my neighbors’ first house purchased in their late 20s. Pretty sure that if I started home plate, they started at at least second base.
Anon
I agree with this, basically. DH and I bought a $1M home when we were 29. Our parents paid for college (which I realize is a privilege) but gave us none of the help that’s described here (downpayments, trust funds, etc). Even with me leaning out and working part-time after having a baby, we have a HHI over $500k, so yeah we’ve put a lot of money into renovating our (already pretty nice) home and we drive nice cars and travel a lot and eat out in really nice restaurants. We also save a ton for retirement and our kids’ education. We don’t plan to put our kids in private school but we could easily afford to. Not everyone who’s wealthy is in debt or getting bankrolled by their parents.
Anonymous
Except you did get bankrolled by your parents — people with loans had to spend the money you were able to save to buy that million dollar house at 29.
Anon
Ok, but the OP didn’t say “I think these people’s parents probably helped with their college tuition.” Her OP was about trust funds and how these young people could afford these lifestyles at all (not how they afford these lifestyles while also paying off school debt). And I’m an example of someone who bought an expensive house very young without a trust fund or any help on the down payment from my parents. Literally no one is saying that having college paid for doesn’t give you a head start in life, but it’s not comparable to drawing a monthly $5k from a trust fund at age 30. (And fwiw, husband and I both did grad school on loans/scholarships and paid them off ASAP when we started our high-earning jobs. I know plenty of people who did undergrad on loans or scholarships and achieved a similar level of wealth as me around the same age. They key here is really the $500k HHI before age 30, not that my parents gave me $75k for undergrad. In fact, I could have easily written my parents a check for my entire undergrad tuition plus interest the same day I bought my house.)
Anonymous
+1. I know it’s a popular refrain around here that people that live in big houses and drive nice cars must be one missed paycheck away from bankruptcy or eviction, but that’s not always the case. I live in a big expensive house. My house payment is less right now that it was in our starter home 10 years ago b/c I bought this place with a bigger down-payment and mortgage rates are so low compared to 2005/2006, even though the house is nearly twice as expensive. We drive nice cars and yes, have one car payment, but it’s at 0%. I’m not exactly saving every extra dime, but we’re comfortable. And most of the people in my neighborhood are similarly situated.
Anonymous
Except, in 2009, I couldn’t sell my house in if I had wanted to b/c so many out-of-work bankers in my ‘hood also had to sell. And it would have been a bad time to sell other investments or raid my 401K. I had rented out my old condo to . . . a banker who lost her job (and if I hadn’t found another tenant pronto, the bank that foreclosed wouldhnt’ have been able to sell that, either). And if I had been sacked, I wouldn’t have been able to find another job b/c I worked in finance. My saving grace was that I waaaaay underbought, but even that meant that I balanced my checkbook daily when it game time to write the daycare check (and that is the only reason we got into a good center was that someone there had been sacked; and if I had been sacked, not only would I have lost my job but I would have lost my infant daycare slot that I waited 9 months to get).
Risk is real, y’all. IT IS REAL. And if your “cushion” ain’t cash, it ain’t a cushion.
Anon
Haha
No
My neighbor’s husband works in my industry, is my age, and is honestly not a superstar by any means. I could tell you within 5% what he makes annually with great certainty.
She has a fancy degree but has only worked part time since her kids were born, and they’re in high school now.
They summer in France (dad comes back to work after 2 weeks but mom and kids stay a month), ski in Tahoe, and just bought their second Tesla.
There is no way this is not family money, debt, or both.
Anon
So that’s this one family. I think people are pushing back that the ONLY way to have this life is family money or debt. Are there people with family money or debt? Obviously. Is that everyone? No.
Monday
I respectfully disagree with the last sentence. You never know who might be potential friends, as long as they understand your scheduling constraints. I know several SAHWs/Ms who deeply value their friendships with women who hold jobs, for variety and perspective.
Anonymous
I work in an industry with all guys, so if I’m going to have girlfriends, it will likely be SAHMs. Just not sure how I’ll ever meet them. :(
Anonymous
This is me as well….all guys industry, no kids….when I moved to a new city, I managed to meet like-minded women through a cycling club.
Anon
It was pretty clear to me that OP was just lamenting the schedule conflicts, not saying that she was too good for SAHMs.
Monday
I was responding to anon at 10:04, not the OP.
Seafinch
One of my best friends lives a similar outward looking lifestyle to this. They have declared bankruptcy twice live on their credit cards, which are always maxed, lease the expensive cars, and have no savings. Other friends who don’t quite live as large also had no student debt and don’t save that much. I know it can feel like you are from a different planet but a lot of it is smoke and mirrors.
Suburban
There’s a counterpoint here:lots of very successful people are pretty modest when asked about their careers. My dad would tell you he’s a real estate broker, and he is. You’ll start counting his money and assume he’s broke because he drives a fancy car. He’s fine, he probably six times my salary last year. My boss’s boss’ boss will tell you he’s a lawyer for x company. You assume he makes what I do. So he shows up with a new car and you scratch your head and also, why doesn’t his wife work? He’s not gonna say he’s in charge of three offices and 300 lawyers and he makes a ton of money.
FP
Agreed. I will come right out and say I married rich, although in practice, immigrant rich is definitely different than old money. I’m sure the general public would look at my husband who gave up his fancy biglaw job to take over his parents’ business and scoff, but the reality is they have a net worth of over $15MM that will be passed solely to my husband because they have no other family here. My husband pays himself a “salary” from their LLC but could easily draw ten times that amount if we needed it. He will tell people he’s in “business” and not really elaborate on it – overall very modest in the description of his job and also how we live our life. They are the ones who set us up for success, though: they arrived here in the US and really leveraged themselves and lived a very hard life in order for me to live the way I do.
Anonymous
If you’ve somehow concluded in my town that’s just hedge fund money.
Anon
A relative lives in a town known for its sailing and yacht clubs. She bought a small, older sailboat in cash before she retired and is generally an old school New England prep in that she buys some nice things, but they’re almost always used (consignment, etc) and she keeps them for life. She has no debt. She has many friends with much larger boats, nicer cars, vacation homes, mansions, and every designer label you could think of. Most are up to their ears in debt, including for the boats and other toys. You wouldn’t know it by the impressions they give off (I thought they came from money) and the extras they maintain (such as yacht club membership), but so it goes. You can bet many people in your town are the same way.
Anon
I’ll add to the “smoke and mirrors” theory. In my suburb, if you were one of the families that went to ritzy beach or ski resorts, you normally went every year with a certain group of families and it was shameful to miss out. I wondered how a lot of these families did this every year. I have recently found out that they would on and off take out home equity loans to go on ski trips…
Anonymous
I think that there is something to this — the minimum spend seems to be house + Country Day-type school for 2-3 kids + new Yukon XL Denali + golf club (75K to join) + sleep-away camps (6K/4 week session). It probably goes on — the grandparents on one side have a place in the mountains, the grandparents on the other side have a place at the beach, there may be a weekend place also . . .
But how many hedge funds / private equity funds can my town support???
The only orthopedic surgeon (=rich person, in laymans terms) I know in my city has a doctor wife and their kids go to public school, so IDK re the craziness and his sport is running, not golf.
Anon
Yes, I’ve heard of the loans to fund ritzy vacations too. It’s bonkers to me. And I say that as someone who was raised middle class but still went to Europe a lot because my parents loved to travel – but we scrimped and saved in every other area of our lives so we could afford a yearly trip. They never would have dreamed of leveraging our house!
Anonymous
Vacations are another thing that wealthy parents like to pay for, at least partly because it gives them time with the grandkids.
Anon
To be fair, vacationing with the grandparents often isn’t all that fun. I have super wealthy parents who haven’t given me any financial assistance post-college but they do pay for us to vacation with them because they want to see the grandkids. They’ve taken us to some really nice places, but vacationing with them is honestly terrible. They’re wealthy but very stingy towards other people, so they make us share a way-too-small place, they are very rigid in what they want to do and don’t accommodate the kids’ schedules at all, which results in cranky, tired kids having meltdowns, they insist on treating us to meals at (fancy) places of their choosing, but then they only let us order one dish each because “this restaurant is expensive” so DH and I go home hungry and have to eat freezer waffles before bed, etc. Oh and of course we have to listen to them whine about how cramped and unpleasant their (first class!) flight was when we flew economy. People who just know that we went to Hawaii or Europe with my parents are probably jealous, but they definitely don’t know the whole story. We view these trips with my parents as obligations, not vacations.
anon.
In my mid-COL to high-COL city, where private school tuition is ~$20K, I do not know a *single* friend who is paying that themselves. We can’t afford it (state workers) and will send kids to public school, which is…. ok. I’m genuinely not resentful, but when I realized that grandparents or even great grandparents are paying, I realized how they can do that and STILL go on ski trips.
FrugalSue
Is this from the same poster who asked about “money secrets” above?! Why all the money talk today, and assumptions and speculation and judgment? I’m not rich but not poor (this year) and curious as h-e-double-hockey-sticks about those around me, but what does it matter? As Queen Elsa says, Let it go!
Anon
Thoughts:
The younger crowd doesn’t remember 2008 the way we do. (Mid/late 30s)
My parents lived far below their means and were financially able to retire around age 55 with mid/high seven figures in the bank. You wouldn’t know it from the used cars and the house (albeit nice house) in a middle-class suburb, and how we went to public high school.
Even if people aren’t overleveraged and in debt, they are saving far, far less than they could. They will be working for many years after couples who live modestly can retire.
Even with a SAHM, do not underestimate the economic power of marriage. It’s two incomes until the kids are born (assuming SAHM), a big tax deduction after (the marriage bonus affects couples with disparate earning power), no costs for after school care, the ability to cook and clean and such without hiring it out, etc.
Anonymous
No doubt the last para is true. I saw it a lot in the military (which doesn’t pay well) — even women with masters degrees didn’t work b/c child care was so high plus their spouses often were gone for extended times (guess who stays home when kids are sick). Lots of people worked PT and from home (not just in MLM, but in Etsy businesses and through remote IT and with jobs like accounting, etc. that they had from before), but basically weren’t that much worse off for not working for a time.
Eh
This assumes that if the SAHM continued working, her income would be less than the “costs for after school care” and “the ability to cook and clean and such without hiring it out.” That really only applies to careers under a certain salary threshold. Otherwise, the “economic power of marriage” is not equal to the economic power of… working.
Anon
The OP asked about households with SAHMs. Therefore, I explained why such couples are able to make it work.
It does not mean that a SAHM comes out ahead, just “less behind” than you might think on first glance.
Anon
Yeah, this. I don’t make much compared to many people here – $50k, which is maybe more like $35k after taxes since my husband is in a higher tax bracket – and it definitely still makes economic sense for me to continue working. Fulltime daycare is around $20k (part-time aftercare is significantly less) so on paper it may seem like I only bring home $15k/year. But my employer provides me health/vision/dental insurance, which would cost several thousand a year to get through my husband, and contributes 10% ($5k/year) to my retirement fund. All told, I think me working nets us almost $25k/year of post-tax or tax-sheltered money, and that amount of money is really game-changing for us, even with a husband who earns more than double what I do. It allows us to take nice vacations, get takeout whenever we want without worrying about cost, sign our kid up for whatever activities she wants, and contribute generously to retirement and college fund. Even if it were “only” $15k, it would still make a big difference to our lives.
(And fwiw, I don’t know too many SAHMs without cleaning services – which I think is fine, their job is mom, not housekeeper, especially if their kids aren’t yet in school – so I’m not sure that really represents a savings for people who choose to stay home.)
anon
Last paragraph is absolutely true. My husband worked before our kid was born, and that second income certainly helped set us up, but he never made a ton of money ($45K max, a lot less some years, never had benefits). Now he stays at home. He works very part-time and manages a rental property we own. Our kid is in daycare, but DH is available for every sick day, every closed-for-weather day, etc. He handles all daycare drop-offs and pick-ups. He does home maintenance, cooking, cleaning, yard work, etc. Between the money he does bring in, the savings from outsourcing, and the raises I’ve received from increased face time at work, I don’t think we’re financially worse off. I also have a lot less stress and more time available to pursue my own career and my hobbies.
Anon
Wait, your husband stays home but your kid still goes to daycare? There’s no universe in which this is netting you more money than a spouse who works full-time and earns $45k. I don’t care how available he is for sick days or how much home maintenance and cooking he does. If this situation works for your family, that’s great. But to hold it out as some kind of financial win is ludicrous.
anon
Not a win, but not a big loss either. Daycare costs are the same, but we also used to pay hundreds of dollars per month for backup care. After taxes, DH’s salary netted us about $30K, or $2500 per month. I estimate that we save about $1500-2000 per month by not outsourcing ($300 for backup care, $600 on weekly housekeepers, $400 on takeout/restaurants twice a week, $200 on lawn service/landscapers, plus variable amounts for maintenance/handyman stuff DH does on our home and a rental property). Before, DH had an inflexible schedule with long hours, and I had a flexible schedule with supposedly long hours–so I was always the one leaving work for early pickups, doctors’ appointments, etc. I left raises and bonuses on the table because I couldn’t put in the face time or the work. Since I’ve become the sole breadwinner, I’ve received raises and bonuses that more than make up the rest of the difference.
Anonymous
The real gain from having a stay-home spouse is leisure time for both spouses. My husband and I both work full-time. We spend our evenings and weekends doing all the things that I would be doing during the day if I were a SAHM: laundry, cooking, yard work, home maintenance, cleaning, errands. My SAHM friends do all that stuff while the kids are at school, then kick back with their families in the evenings and over the weekends.
Anon
Hmm, I don’t agree with this take at all. I have never stayed home officially but I took a long (almost 1 year) maternity leave and I felt like I spent the entire day working really hard on the baby and house and there were still a ton of household chores to do in the evenings. And then instead of pitching in together to do them quickly and efficiently, as we did when we were both working, my husband viewed it as my area because I was “home” and supposed to be taking care of all that stuff. I ended up not having much time to myself and feeling very resentful whenever he went out to do his own hobbies on evenings or weekends. Things got infinitely better when I went back to work and we started splitting all the chores we couldn’t outsource equally. I have way more free time as a working mom whose husband grocery shops and cooks than I did as a temporary stay at home mom who was trying to do all that stuff myself. And babies nap a ton! I think it would be way harder with a toddler who’s basically awake for the entire day.
Anon
I think this is true once the kids are school aged but before then little kids require way too much hands on attention for any real housework to get done during the day. At least that’s my experience. I’m sure there are super parents out there who are masters at timing their kids naps, have kids that are easy to tow along to errands instead of making everything take 20 times longer and who have mastered the art of cooking/cleaning with a child strapped to them but alas I am not that parent.
Anon
Stop trying to figure out your neighbors’ financial situations. It’s just going to drive you crazy and there’s NO WAY you’ll ever know the complete pictures.
Anonymous
I would like something like audited financials from everyone. Or some sort of truth in advertising / 10b5 for lifestyle.
Like:
FICO score is 850 and we love our 10 year old Honda!
I work 80 hours a week so wife can be a SAHM and sleep with her trainer!
Still on the parental dole!
I’m a forensic accountant who does a lot of work on embezzlement cases, so it’s just how my mind is wired.
Anonymous
+1 I feel like some version of this comes up a lot. Poster: “Hey my neighbors spend as if they make more than biglaw money. That can’t be right, can it? They’re getting help or are in debt somehow right?”
Everyone: ”of course. Biglaw is the only way to make anywhere near that much money. If they are buying nicer things than you they’re in debt or its family money.”
I’m kidding but I do feel an undercurrent of resentment when biglaw folks are confronted with the facts that there are other jobs that pay better than biglaw.
Anonymous
OTOH
Objectively I know that I am “rich” by world standards and even by my neighborhood standards. When I can’t explain the very basic math, I think that maybe Breaking Bad (although they lived modestly!) wasn’t just fiction. But it likely that they are on the parental dole. I pity their kids — they will be bewildered that most people live within their means (or their means don’t include infusions from older generations).
Anon at 1255
I’m sure you are rich by most standards. That doesn’t mean people with better paying jobs do not exist. The math works when you don’t discount their income.
My point again, biglaw pays better than most jobs. It doesn’t pay better than every job. People don’t think that’s fair but it’s true.
FrugalSue
I think their kids will be Just Fine and I’mma gonna focus on my kids and wallet over here kthxbai
Anon
Their kids will also get money from the parents… That’s how this works.
Anon
+1 or jobs that pay similar to big law that didn’t require an expensive law degree. Or biglaw people who got full scholarships. Or biglaw people that basically lived like a collage student (less nice housing/roommates, no going out except for special occasions and with a groupon, no new clothes (online thrifting FTW), no vacations, almost all meals paid for by the firm because working so much, same with transportation costs) for several years while paying down loans and building a war chest (raises hand). There is more than one path to a job that pays as much as big law (or more!)
Senior Attorney
The people I know with the most money are in sales and/or are entrepreneurs. There is a limit to how much money you can make selling your time by the hour (or other people’s time by the hour), even at BigLaw rates.
Anonymous
Could use some advice from frequent travelers. I am traveling more for work and am having trouble with pillows in hotel rooms killing my neck (yes, I do realize this is one of those first-world problems). On the advice of my chiropractor I switched, a couple of years ago, to sleeping on an extremely firm memory-foam pillow. I had my doubts (my home pillow doesn’t feel or really even look like a pillow) but it really helped with neck tension and pain that had gotten so bad I couldn’t fully turn my neck to one side. No hotel seems to have pillows this firm – they’re various degrees of squishy – and even though most of my trips are only three nights, that’s enough for me to have neck problems for a few days after I get home. I can’t see lugging around a full-size foam pillow with me on business trips if there’s another option…any ideas?
Anonymous
Following. Recently I’ve just been trying to sleep flat on my back and bring along a heating pad because I have run out of ideas.
Anonymous
Try those half-circle neck pillows they sell in airport stores. I used to nap on mine on maternity leave and was pleasantly surprised. I have a foam pillow for my bed but needed (“needed”) something for my couch and this was nearby.
LAnon
You could consider bringing an inflatable pillow with you that you can make as firm as you want it. I use an inflatable pillow for camping and it’s pretty comfortable – mine is smaller than a normal sized pillow but I bet with some searching you could find a standard sized one.
Anonymous
Are you staying in hotels with a pillow menu? If you frequently stay in the same hotel, I would definitely contact the manager and ask if they can add the type of pillow you like to the menu.
Alternatively, is there a travel size version? Or could you purchase a secord full size version and cut it in half so the size is better for travel?
Anonymous
I have had luck sleeping with a rolled-up towel or article of clothing under my neck.
Anon
This. I put a folded towel in the pillowcase and tie the pillowcase with a hairtie.
Anon
I usually bring my pillow with me when I travel. Make sure to use a bright, non-white pillow case . The heart wants what it wants. You can compress them a little using a space bag.
Anonymous
My foam pillow is very heavy though for its size — may be a dealbreaker. And it is foam, so I doubt it could compress much :(
Anon
Have you tried asking the hotel if they have firmer pillows? I also have neck problems and sometimes use one or two rolled up towels (hand size, not bath towels) under my pillow to provide support in the right place, this might also help when you don’t have better options and would already be in your hotel room. If none of those work, do they sell camping size versions of your current pillow? That would be easier to travel with.
Anonymous
I find hotel pillows to be way too big and my neck hurts. I usually take a hotel towel, roll it up and sleep on that as the pillow.
Anonymous
I don’t use a pillow at all in most hotels.
Beth
I bought a “toddler-sized” memory foam pillow from amazon and travel with that. It is smaller than my normal pillow but is fine for a few nights and much easier to travel with.
rosie
I would experiment with camping pillows. We’ve gotten a lot of use out of thermarest compressible pillows, but I don’t know if that will be firm enough for you. Inflatable, as mentioned above, is another good idea. I think it’s worth devoting some space in your luggage to this–good sleep and no neck pain are worth it.
Anon
Call housekeeping. Most hotels have these, they just don’t leave them out. Secret menu item if you will. (I’m talking about hotel at Westin/Hyatt and up levels, you’re probably out of luck at a lower end chain).
Fishie
If you are staying in Marriott properties frequently you can become a rewards member and indicate a pillow preference in your profile.
Anonymous
They never honor my pillow preference.
Anon
I actually do think that’s really annoying and I promise I’m not trying to make fun of you, but that was a sentence I never thought I’d read and it made me chuckle a little bit.
Anon
I laughed too, mostly because I can see my DH saying that. He’s obsessed with pillows! The first time we stayed in a hotel with a “pillow menu” it blew his mind.
anon0321
I travel a lot for work and the pillows at hotels KILL ME- I try to bring my own if I have room… another non-pillow thing that helped immensely was buying a better ergo setup for my laptop. I have this great stand to put the laptop on, a portable keyboard, and my manager even sprung for a 2nd portable screen for us. It makes a huge difference– when I use it, at the end of the week I’m not frozen in place.
Anon
Anyone here have any competitive hobbies? I was reading an article recently describing how after college,women are less likely than men to participate in hobbies with a competitive element, especially ball sports. In thinking about it, I actually kind of miss the intramural sports I played in college and the many sports and activities I did in high school, but I can’t tell if I’m being nostalgic or if I actually miss the competitive vibe in my life. Anyone do anything competitive on a regular basis now and do you feel more motivated to engage in the sport/activity than you would otherwise?
Anonymous
I play tennis. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I alternate between taking clinics when I am merely a sub in a league with a weekly or bi-weekly playing night (so I don’t plan every week but can go to practices) or being an active participant.
I played tennis in high school. My sorority was active in intramurals (and I also did some coed teams in college and law school). It was fun. But not realistic with my job to do anything more than tennis (and even then it is a stretch, but if guys can make time for golf, I make myself make time for tennis).
Anonymous
I’d like to play basketball, but there is no league for a 40+ woman who is short and not terribly good at it (that didn’t stop me in college intramurals though). Tennis and golf and distance running (no so sure re track) and masters swimming are set up well for life-long play. Other sports, not so much, esp. for women.
Anonymous
Re: basketball — organize a weekly game yourself. A group of women (late 30s/early 40s moms) in my town worked out court time with the organization that runs the youth basketball league, and they have a standing Wednesday night game for women. It draws a handful of younger 20-something players or former D3 college players, but it also has plenty of generally athletic/intramural playing 40+ women, too. I don’t go because I SUCK at basketball and don’t like to do things I’m not good at (a big character flaw), but I’m so envious of the group. I stick to masters swimming but have to pay $$$$ and travel to a pool.
EAE
I used to have these same issues, and started running as an outlet. There are lots of local races around. And yes, planning for a race definitely motivated me to run more.
Idea
I recently found out about an adult women’s soccer league in my suburban area. Going to try and see if I can join. I’m almost 40. haven’t played competitive sports since injury in college, unless you count 11-minute miles at some charity 5ks
Anonymous
Ballroom dancing. I don’t compete yet, but the classes are progressive and competitions are the ultimate goal.
Anonymous
Golf. I play in my club’s championship and a smattering of “competitive” events throughout the year, sometimes it’s singles play, sometimes team match play at my club or against other clubs. I golfed in college (D3). I do feel more connected and engaged by having something to work toward, and I love the team events, we have so much fun. I do not play the regular league, which is mostly retired women on Thursday mornings, and I only sub on the women’s twilight league.
Anonimoose
I know, I know. It’s a little bit of a cult. But I play competitive ultimate frisbee. My “tribe” if you will all came from there. We have pickup, leagues, and practices as well as summer tournaments. I really value it as a sport that values women, diversity, and inclusion. I personally play for a womxns team, but in the past have played mixed as well. It’s also a sport that welcomes beginners and there is definitely room to improve and compete more competitively as you get more experience. I honestly don’t know what I would do without that outlet.
Anon
Who the heck is “womxn” supposed to include? Women don’t identify as womxn, so it’s not them, and if you say you are using that “word” to include transwomen, you’re implying that they’re not already women. What’s the deal?
Anonymous
I am a woman. Please don’t call me a womxn.
pugsnbourbon
Do you think
that
maybe
it could have
been a typo
-rupi kar
But seriously if she meant womxn as written, the team may include some folks who are nonbinary or genderfluid.
Anon
No, it’s not a typo. Other people use this too and I do not understand at all.
Anonymama
I’d just assume that’s how the league/team defines itself, like a country club might have a “ladies tennis” league or an outrigger canoe club would have a “wahines” division, which anyone would’ve been welcome to join or not if they didn’t consider themselves to fall in that category. Language is alive, it’s fascinating to see how changes in language cause some people so much distress.
Anon
Yup, masters swimming. I’m very competitive. I can still beat the local teenagers at age 30, which makes me feel pretty darn good about myself, I won’t lie. 99% of my teammates aren’t in it for the competitive aspect, so it’s still a friendly, fun thing to do.
CountC
I played flag football for several years and loved it. I was pretty good at it despite not playing ball sports growing up. I had to cut FF when I got involved in trail running for fear of injuring myself at FF and for time constraints. I participate in trail races and when i am consistently and seriously training am top third OA and AG. Seeing improvements in my running at races absolutely motivates me to train harder and more consistently.
I played rugby in college and would love to play again but don’t have the time right now. I also played ultimate in a pickup league and it was loads of fun, but again not enough time right now.
Lobbyist
I do open water swims, 100K bike rides, and compete every time I ride my peloton.
Anon
I do crew about 7 months of the year. I like the competitive aspect, but it is more for th group/team dynamic. I will drag myself out of bed for a 5:30 practice with my team, but would never do that for the gym.
Worry about yourself
I’m in swing dancing, which isn’t inherently competitive; you can enjoy the hobby by just taking classes and social dancing. However, there are a lot of chances to compete, for those who want them! I do compete, but I rarely make finals and I’ve never placed in the top 3, but it’s still fun!
Anonymama
I play recreational soccer, and have since leaving college, despite never playing at higher than a high-school level competitively. It is super fun, I’ve made great friends, co-Ed teams always need women so you feel very popular, and the obligation to say that you’re showing up keeps me from flaking out on the team. Plus I’m terrible at pushing myself exercise-wise but trying to sprint to the ball first is very motivating. It make take a few tries to find a team you really mesh with but it’s really worth it.
Jewelry Upkeep
Hi clean, jewelry owning people, how do you clean your stuff?
What do you bring to jewelers for inspection? Do you have a machine, or just take a silver polishing cloth to any tarnish? What about semi-precious stone or pearls?
Thanks!
ilovejewelry
For silver, I simply polish it with either a polishing cloth or paste (or toothpaste in a bind). If I don’t wear it frequently I keep it in a sealed ziplock to minimize it’s atmospheric exposure which causes tarnish. Everything else I just wipe off with a clean rag (very infrequently to be honest(. I have taken a pear necklace to a jeweler to inspect the string – it belonged to a family member and had last been restrung ~25 years ago. I didn’t want it to break while I was wearing it.
Z
I have a diamond ring from Zales and whenever I take it in for inspection they clean it.
NOLA
I do a variety of things. I will dip some things in jewelry cleaner, or in silver cleaner. I just dipped a couple pieces this weekend and they were surprisingly clean after 10-15 seconds. I then rinse in warm water and clean with a cloth. I will sometimes clean them with a toothbrush as well. For rings or difficult to clean items, I’ll take them to my local jewelry store to be cleaned by them. I broke some things trying to use a polishing cloth, so I guess I got gunshy about chains. They will also clean my rings and check prongs, etc. They’ll often invite customers in on a day that they know will be slow, to get jewelry cleaned and checked. It gives them something to do and, hey, you might buy something. I’m also going to have one of my favorite necklaces cleaned and restrung by the designer. It’s a seed pearl and blue topaz necklace that I wear a lot in the summertime. The pearls have started to look gray. She may just replace them and keep the stones.
nutella
You will need to change it by the materials used. Pearls should only need light buffing with a soft cloth; don’t use harsh chemicals on them. As for emeralds, sapphires, and diamonds: the easiest is a drop of dishwashing soap with lukewarm water and a tiny/thin brush. The trick for the ultimate shine is after you rinse the piece to dry it with a hair dryer and soft cloth to prevent water spots from forming. Don’t bother with the machines (too much of a pain and while diamonds can take the heat of the steam, emeralds are more fragile).
Anon
I like to go through my jewelry box every once in a while while I watch TV. Put the earrings back in the right compartment, make sure I have pairs of everything, etc. So during that process I usually shine things up with a polishing cloth, though if I had a lot of silver this would maybe not be enough. I’m more of a gold person.
I have some rings from a jeweler in my neighborhood so every once in a while I stop in to chat (they have a cute dog I like to pet so that is my excuse) and they throw my rings into the cleaner while I’m there. They also inspect the prongs as part of the deal.
I have lots and lots of pearls and I just did a big restring about a year ago of several of my strands. I didn’t do it myself, I took them into the place where I bought them and they did it, but I’m considering learning how to string and knot pearls. I can do a reasonable amateur job already, but if I could take it up a notch I could restring my nicer pieces. There are good resources for this online.
I wear more silver jewelry in the summer and I find that if I wear pieces more, they get less tarnished. I also think keeping them in a closed jewelry box helps, but maybe I’m kidding myself.
Anon
This shirt is very overpriced. You can get a similar top at Uniqlo and tailor it for a lot less. I don’t have the link handy but if they still carry it, it should be under “tops” on the website.
Jane
Please tell me your best tips and tricks re how to maximize my HSA benefits? I recently finally got a job that provides it, and am honestly not sure I’m using it to the optimal level. My spouse has his own insurance, so does that mean we can’t buy anything that he uses from that money?
Anonymous
I use it for glasses and the dentist.
Housecounsel
I buy my disposable daily-wear contacts and paid for part of my kid’s braces.
Anonymous
HSAs don’t expire. I use mine as a retirement vehicle. Check what the fees associated with your HSA are, and if it allows for investment. If so, and your finances allow for it, you can leave your HSA to grow to tap for big expenses (pregnancy/birth, emergency surgery, etc), save it to pay for medical bills in your golden years, or even repay youself (refund the medical expenditures from earlier years. I keep a record of all medical bills > $50).
Anonymous
You can repay yourself for medical expenses from earlier years? So if I pay for my daughter’s braces this year, I can put $$$ in an HSA next year and reimburse myself using pretax dollars?
Anonymous
I don’t think this is correct. But if you put money in an HSA this year, incur medical expenses this year but don’t reimburse yourself from HSA funds this year and instead let the money grow, you could reimburse yourself for 2019 expenses in, say, 2021.
Mpls
+1 (See Notice 2004-50, Q39 from the IRS). You can only reimburse yourself for expense incurred after the HSA account was opened. You don’t have to reimburse yourself in the year the expense was incurred, but the HSA account needs to have been opened.
Z
Make sure not to use IHS or VA services or you become “ineligible” for 3 months and will get slapped with a tax penalty.
Also, contribute the max amount if you can.
Anon
Wait, at all, or just if you use those services and pay with your HSA? I’m just curious.
Z
At all. I believe there are exceptions for preventative care and certain VA-related injuries, but otherwise if you access VA or IHS care (for example, you broke your ankle and go to an IHS clinic to get it treated) then you aren’t considered eligible to have an HSA for three months and you have to pay taxes plus a penalty on whatever money you set aside for those three months. Just being eligible for IHS/VA care doesn’t make you ineligible, just accessing most of that care does.
More info/IHS: https://flexreserve.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/37768/~/can-i-have-an-hsa-if-i-have-indian-health-service-benefits%3F
More info/VA: https://flexreserve.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/37767/~/can-i-have-an-hsa-if-i-have-va-benefits%3F
Anonymous
Wasn’t it you were ineligible to *contribute* to an HSA for 3 months after receiving VA benefits, because the VA doesn’t constitute a qualifying HDHP (need to make HSA contributions). And that there were some changes to the policy in 2016?
Shouldn’t affect your ability to use HSA funds to pay for medical expenses, just to contribute to the HSA.
And my guess is it’s not a tax penalty, but just regular income taxes on the otherwise pre-tax contribution, once it was deemed ineligible.
HSAL
You can buy anything that’s a qualified medical expense (search online for a list) with it, so it doesn’t matter if your spouse has in own insurance.
My work puts in about half my deductible every year and I also contribute out of my paycheck. I’m not contributing the max right now, but I plan to in the future. It’s basically a discount on any medical payment you have, and it rolls over, so I don’t see any downside to putting extra money in there if you can swing it. Yesterday I got glasses and sunglasses.
anon
What do you mean by “maximize”? HSA can roll into retirement so I contribute the most possible and our servicer (BOA) allows us to invest when you have more than I think $3000 in there, so we do that. I look at it more as retirement savings now that we have enough to cover out out of pocket maximum. When my husband was on his employer’s plan (still high deductible though), we used my HSA account to pay for his copays and meds. I researched it a lot and felt fine with it. Some people have their docs write scripts for r OTC meds they frequently use so they can use HSA funds to pay for them. I thought about trying to get reimbursed for child birth classes and our Doula, but never got around to submitting anything. There is guidance on the IRS website about what the funds can be used for.
Anon
Your health insurance plan should have all of your EOBs (explanations of benefits) online, as well as a spreadsheet that is downloadable showing what they paid and what you paid. Submit all of the what you paid stuff to the HSA. Even if just a $20 copay because it really adds up over time. I’m assuming you can submit your husband’s expenses but maybe that’s just my plan – I can submit anyone in my household, even though their health insurance is through my husband’s work.
Puppy Blues
Can someone please tell me life with a puppy gets easier? We got a german shepherd pup 4 months ago. She is 6 months old and she is pretty well behaved for that age, but she constantly needs attention. We have been told by several experienced trainers that she should be a working dog, so I think some of the issue is that the breeder didn’t match us well. Most days I feel like my life has been ruined. I am always tired, I never get a minute alone, and I just have nothing left to give. I know we’ve had an extra rough go of it because the puppy has had some serious health problems, but I need to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I have fantasies about donating her to a police department and wonder if she would be happier there.
Anon
We have a 9 month old puppy that is a border collie mix. We got her when she was 3-4 months old. She has matured super quickly in the past month and is now (mostly) a lovely, well-behaved dog. I think you are at the worst part now. I remember seeing that 7 month old puppies were the ones most commonly given up to shelters, etc., and when my puppy was that old I could def see why. She was such a terror. So I feel you, and it will probably get better!
Anonymous
A German shepherd is a big dog that’s always going to require a lot of exercise. If it’s not for you, start trying to rehome the dog now. Idk why you’d get a German Shepherd to start with. Call the breeder and see if they know anyone looking. Call a local rescue and explain it’s not a crisis, but it’s not a good fit and if they have someone who wants a German puppy that would be good.
Puppy Blues
I am not really asking for feedback on our choice of dog. We did extensive research on the breed so of course knew german shepherds required lots of exercise and she gets plenty. I have no problem going on walks and playing fetch and whatever else she needs, but even with hours of exercise a day she still just can’t settle down and is always looking for what’s next. I understand this is normal for a puppy to some extent but I was just going for some commiseration and for people to tell me it gets better someday.
Anon
Well, you chose a breed of working dog. That’s on you. I’m not sure how it’s the breeder’s fault – all GSD are working dogs, whether they have an official job or not.
Anonymous
Yep. If your dog was bred to work, you need to give it a job or it will be miserable and ruin your life. This is why people get their dogs into obedience, agility, herding, etc.
Puppy Blues
I understand that as we did a lot of research prior to getting the puppy, but there are varying levels of drive and we asked for something on the low to medium end of the spectrum. We ended up with a fairly high drive dog that would have probably been better off in a home with other working dogs and/or being trained for a real job. We have kept in touch with others who got puppies from the same litter and so I know there were others with much lower driver and perhaps more suitable as a family pet. We spend hours training and exercising her a day so it’s not as though we are treating her as a a lap dog and expecting her to be okay with that, we just didn’t expect it to be this intense.
Anonymous
Doggie day care for a few months until she calms down?
Anon
I’m the Anon below at 10:54. This is my second beagle so (like you) I thought I knew what I was getting into. I think sometimes it’s just a crap shoot and you get a higher-drive, more energetic dog. Completely tested my limits and I know so much how you feel. It is a really tough age. I dreamed of dropping him off at the farm/breeder where I got him because he couldn’t possibly be happy with me. In retrospect, I am so glad I persevered. I am so much more bonded to him because of the work we’ve done together. He is a handful but he’s my handful and I love him. I promise, it gets easier.
anon
I think it does get better. But you chose a breed of dog that needs a lot of exercise and work. I have a friend who had a German shepherd, and she found some hobby training groups in our area. It was a great bonding experience and great exercise for both of them.
Anon
It’s not that the breeder didn’t match you with the right puppy. It sounds more like you didn’t match with the right breed. What made you want a German Shepherd? German Shepherds are working dogs. Yours’ is young and full of energy for which she most likely doesn’t have an ample outlet. Everything you state is GSDs doing what GSDs do. If you can’t provide the training, stimulation and exercise she needs, your two best options are to hire a dog walker/exerciser or rehome her to someone who has a realistic idea of what life with a young GSD is like.
Puppy Blues
We specifically asked the breeder for a low to mid drive puppy and were given a high drive puppy, so I do believe some of that is on the breeder. There were several lower drive pups in the litter as I keep up with them. The reason we asked for a lower drive was because even though we are very active we were hesitant to sign up for a high drive german shepherd which is what we ended up getting.
Anon
Come on…if you want a lower drive dog, you don’t get a GSD. Don’t blame the breeder for your ignorance or lack of research.
nona
+1 – this is where I land. You gambled on getting the low-energy range of a working breed dog, where you would have better off looking at a breed that averaged low-energy overall.
It kind of sounds like you want the benefit of the breed without the work.
Anonymous
This isn’t a reasonable expectation. If you wanted an easy dog you shouldn’t have gotten a German Shepard
Anon
Also, what is “high” and “low” drive is really dependent on breed. My breed is known for being extremely low-drive most of the time. Practically a houseplant by most definitions. My own dogs are on the highest-end of drive for the breed, but are roughly comparable to an old Doberman, if we’re comparing to working dogs. They end up with me because of peoples’ unrealistic expectations. To compare, when I think of “high drive GSD”, I think of a dog who is unsafe to place as a pet and only suited to life as a working dog with a professional handler. Your description sounds like normal working dog puppy/adolescent behavior.
Assessing nuance in drive in a tiny puppy is a crapshoot at best in any breed. Look at the parents. Were they high-drive working dogs? If so, there’s your answer.
Curious
What kind of dogs do you have? I love the idea of a houseplant dog. But since I’ve never realistically met one, I settled on a houseplant cat. Much less work. Still curious what breed your dogs are.
Anon
Not the person you’re responding to but I’ve heard greyhounds are “60mph couch potatoes”. My neighbors adopted one (rescued from racing in Mexico) and they agree. Once in a while they take him to an off leash park and let him run (which is so amazing it draws a crowd) but day to day he is happy with his morning and evening walks around the neighborhood.
Anon
Greyhound. They’re nuts as pups, but most settle down into total lumps by age 3 or so. I find that boring, but the higher energy ones who have some prey drive, some work drive, are harder to place & tend to get returned by adopters are perfect. When I’m ready to go, they’re up for anything, but if I’ve had a long day and want to sack out, they’re (usually) good with that, too. They’re also velcro dogs – I’m pretty sure I haven’t peed alone in 15 years. Contrast that with my other non-greyhound dog who only within the last 6 months or so (she’s 10) has calmed down to a point that if we skip her run, won’t eat my house.
Daliah
Can I ask more about greyhounds? My husband wants a dog for an outdoor work/hiking companion, but he travels for work often, and I do not come close to meeting his physical exertion levels when he’s gone. Does the breed do well with that sort of swinging back and forth? And can they handle rocky terrain for hiking?
Anon
Depends on the individual dog, but in my experience, yes. Of course, anything physical has a learning/conditioning curve that’s different for every dog, but I’ve had plenty over the years that were able hiking companions. The only thing that just didn’t work was a pack… all but the biggest of big males’ backs are too narrow for a pack.
Different Anon
Not the non-above, but several houseplant-like breeds that I have had experience with/around are Great Danes, Newfoundlands, Great Pyrenees, and Bernese Mountain dogs. Even though many of these breeds are working dogs, they typically have had work jobs that require short bursts of energy (watching a flock of sheep) vs all day activity (military/police). I have also heard that greyhounds are very sleepy 99.9% of the time.
I agree that the poster probably chose the wrong breed for her family, but the piling on of comments isn’t especially helpful. OP things you might investigate include dog walkers, doggy treadmills (this is probably the best choice for you as it doesn’t necessarily require your time), and puzzle toys. Things like a kong with frozen peanut butter keep a dog occupied mentally and physically for a while. You really should look into sporting events for the dog. Even basic obedience drills can really help structure a dogs day. This is probably the toughest age for your pup.
Anon
Not the 12:08 poster, but my 10 month old Great Dane is basically like having a large, four-legged roommate. He likes a walk or a trip to the dog park, but he naps for about 20 hours a day.
Anon
Ex-canine orthopedics worker here: The caveat with all of the breeds mentioned above (Great Danes, Newfoundlands, Great Pyrenees, and Bernese Mountain dogs, and I’ll add Malamutes, St. Bernards and Anatolians who fall into houseplant category) is that they have severe orthopedic issues starting surprisingly young (like 5 or 6) and the vet costs are high (hip replacement is ~$5K, ACL surgery $2.5K) and many (most?) will need at least two limbs fully fixed by the time they hit 9. The recovery is tough because there is so much body weight, especially given that Newfies and Bernese tend to get overweight easily. If you budget for this, keep your dogs trim, and don’t move to a place with tons of stairs by the time the dog is middle aged, all of this is sustainable. It is extremely painful to watch your fully mentally there pet start to suffer physically before hitting any semblance of old age.
Anonymous
We have two basset hound mixes and while they are much more active than most people think they are given their dimensions and reputation, they are not “high energy” by any means. We walk them 30 min once a day and they’re good. They can be very playful and will race around the yard every so often – and then they’ll go pass out for the next 8 hours.
Just want to say to the OP – it’s okay to rehome the dog. When I was a kid, we got a puppy from one of my dad’s coworkers and I am not sure what the breed combination was, but it was way too much dog for our family and we found another family to give him to that had a ranch and a bunch of other dogs he could run around with. It’s not ideal but it happens. Some dogs are just too much dog for some owners. As an example, my dogs, as laid-back and easy-going as they are, would be too much for my mom because they are pretty big and they are clumsy and they shed and they wag their big tails and knock stuff over. Would not work for her on any level. She has a little Cairn terrier who is the perfect dog for her. We would not have our two lovable nitwits, who we love to death and who are better entertainment than TV, if their families had not decided they were better off finding the dogs a different home. As long as you don’t just dump the puppy at kill shelter, if this really is not a fit you and the dog will be better off. And you can give it some time and then find a different dog who is a better fit.
If I can make a recommendation – I highly recommend adopting older dogs. We went through the puppy stage with our first two dogs (now at the Rainbow Bridge) and we had pretty much decided we were not up for that again. We got our third dog when she was 3 and the second when he was about 5. They were already potty trained, already through the “chew on everything” stage, had calmed down energy-wise, etc. Our previous dogs lived to age 12 (died of osteosarcoma) and 16 (died of old age) so even a dog you get at 5 has a lot of good years left.
Anon
It gets better! I have an almost two-year old beagle who was a really really hard puppy. I felt like I was at the end of my rope when he was in the six months to one year time frame. It was tough and I definitely contemplated rehoming home on the hard days. He is now super cuddly and loving and far from perfect but I know his weak/trouble spots. He is very well behaved and gentle around my toddler niece, barely messes with her toys, follows basic commands, and can walk very nicely on a leash. But it’s been a journey!
Your biggest objective is to wear him out on a daily basis. Two main ways to do that (and both are important): exercise and training. Working their brains during training (even if they don’t seem to move around much or learn anything) wears them out.
I also finally went to a training place that is not “purely positive.” Purely positive (treat and reward only) training was just not cutting it for us (we tried the best two places in town). We use an electronic collar now and it was a game changer. I think age is helping, too, but just getting a reliable sit, down, place (stay), and come has been AMAZING and let’s me more easily exercise him because he can be off leash. We go to Sit Means Sit. It’s a national chain but each location is independently run, so definitely check the local reviews. And, don’t be discouraged by the “he’s a working dog” comments. We got that, too, from our very-highly-regarded original training location. He is a working dog (as are all hounds), but he is also a wonderful pet. He just needed the right kind of training for his personality and mine (i.e., I can’t spend 20 hrs/week training him).
Good luck and YES, it gets better.
+1
We have a coonhound. We also went with off-leash training, through Off-Leash K9. Best money we’ve spent. We also considered rehoming, but not seriously, the dog is our whole world. It was so hard, but training and being able to walk off-leash/run in a big field was so helpful.
It does get better, but you need training, a dog sport, something to help you guys bond. And also, please realize that working dogs are working dogs. Even with low-drive, that’s just not really a thing.
Cc
I’m not sure what you mean about the breeder comments- the breeder doesn’t chose the breed you get, you do. German Shepard’s are really not family pets, they are born to work. What are you doing for exercise? A tired puppy is a well behaved puppy. Do you have an off leash park or somewhere the pup can play with other dogs? Do you take her to day care? Give us more details on how much exercise the dog is getting and we may have some suggestions. Are you taking the dog to a training class?
Puppy Blues
Hi. We work full time jobs but have flexible schedules so a typical day for her is 6:30-7:00 off leash running/fetch, 7:00-7:30 training and eat breakfast, 7:30-8:00 playtime with toys, bones, etc.; 8:00-8:30 training and wind down. I leave at 8:30 and crate her, and then one of us comes home from 12:30-1:30 for a .5-1 mile walk, training, and lunch. She’s crated again from 1:30-5:30 and then in the evening we try to do a fun mental stimulation game or intense training session before dinner and then in house playtime after dinner with toys or one of her favorite chew objects. All of her meals are fed with slow feed bowls or puzzle toys and we do treats like yogurt in a kong or something tasty on a lick mat every day. Most weeks she only ends up being crated 3-4 days as we each try to work from home once a week if we can. She goes to a puppy training class once a week and we take her to an off leash puppy socialization class at least every other week. On the weekends we try to do one long exploration walk for her in a new place. We would like to add in a day of doggie daycare mid week but due to restrictions at our preferred place we can’t do that until she is spayed which won’t be until the 1 year mark.
Anonymous
She probably need a solid hour a day of walking. I see only one short walk a day in there? I’d be thinking more like 45 minutes morning and night.
Anon
Anon w the beagle again. I think you are doing all the right things. If you can, I’d consider adding a walk in the evening (you may already be doing that, I can’t quite tell) and a second training class per week. At that age we were in a special high-drive puppy class that was really great; when that was over we did agility and then an intro to nosework class. None of them were a magic bullet but I think it all helps some, and gave me something positive to focus on. Oh, and I meant to say earlier, don’t be afraid to crate her when you are home and just need a break. I know it feels mean or counter-intuitive but sometimes that breathing room for you makes a world of difference.
Puppy Blues
Thank you for this.
Anonymous
Can you add a half hour walk when you get home? Is the off leash time in the morning pretty much continuous running? If not, I’d switch that for a half hour walk and add 15 minutes off leash time at the end.
Cc
Daycare will be great when you can do that and I think you need to up the physical exercise. I see a lot of stimulation and well spaced out but only one .5-1 mile work. I would try to get a longer evening walk in there
Trixie
You are doing a lot for your German Shepard! 6-12 months is adolescence for dogs, so hang in there. I think a 3-5 miles a day is necessary at this age. We used a dog hiking service for our now 7 year old. Long, off leash hikes in the woods on trails, with off leash training as needed. Also, you will think I am crazy, but I used to walk my dog by bike with a device that you can buy on amazon and attach to the bike frame. There are a number of them. We would trot our suburban streets in the morning for 3 miles, and this helped wear her out. It was like being on a treadmill for her! Another idea is to buy beef marrow bones at Whole Foods or wherever, and ask them to slice the bones 1-1.5 inches thick so as to be a small serving. Dogs will work on these for hours! There are also balls with holes in them with a seam around the equator of the ball. Unscrew the seam, fill with a handful of cheerios, and put it back together. The dog will worry the ball, kicking/nosing it around to get at the cheerios. Breeders can only tell so much–you chose a great dog, just keep at it and it will get better.
Aggie
Your problem is the crate. Plain and simple. A working dog needs both physical and mental stimulation that they cannot get locked inside a crate.
The environment you keep her in has created her energy level…not the breeder’s selection of the puppy.
Anonymous
I would actually swap the walk for off leash exercise. I have a very lazy adult dog, and our trainer recommends 30 minutes of off leash exercise for my dog a day. Our trainer doesn’t count leash walks as exercise – it’s not intense enough and is really just mental stimulation. You seem to have a good amount of mental stimulation.
We get the 30 mins in through (a) dog park, (b) off leash hikes on the weekend, (c) tug/fetch in our apartment, or (d) fetch in a big field at a local school. On the weekends, you might benefit with a long off leash hike (or hike on a very long leash) rather than an exploration walk on leash. Definitely recommend day care – even if you just sent the dog to day care in the morning, I bet that would help a lot.
I also think you need to give the dog more challenging puzzles for her meals (i.e., new puzzles, wrapping the puzzle in a blanket, hiding it, freezing things, etc. – you can google ways to make the puzzles harder).
Also, try confining her to a small area rather than a crate. Dog-proof one room in your house, leave her with 2-3 puzzles and gate her in.
It does get better but it takes a while – my uncle has a 18 month old German Shepard who is a great, loving dog. He’s still highly, highly active – he needs a ton of play/stimulation/training a day. But he’s infinitely better than he was 6 months ago though, so it really will get better over time,
Cookbooks
I grew up with German Shepherds. They have long puppyhoods and can be total velcro dogs. Anon at 10:37’s suggestion of hobby training groups is a good one. Something like agility training might be fun for both of you. You might even consider day care once or twice a week, it’s fun for them and they come back tired.
At this stage, exercise and training is key. She’ll calm down. But that dignified, steady GSD? That won’t kick in until about 3 years or so. But it’s worth it :)
emeralds
OP, I could have written your post when we adopted a 7 month old GSD mix (she’s almost all GSD, though). I’d never had a GSD before, but grew up with dogs and had successfully dog-parented another driven working breed, so I didn’t think it was going to be a problem.
I almost lost my freaking mind. We had serious conversations about returning her to the rescue, it was that bad. (Full disclosure, I would have but my SO nixed it.) She cried all night. She destroyed door frames. She paced and paced and barked at every falling leaf. She had a meltdown every time we focused on each other, instead of her–try enjoying your s*x life with a dog screaming like she’s being tortured on the other side of the door. She was just a black hole of emotional need, no matter how much exercise she got, in the same kind of way it sounds like your pup is.
The good news is…she just turned two, and she is almost unrecognizable from the total basket case that we brought home. We started sending her to daycare 2-3 days a week as soon as she hit the most reputable daycare’s minimum age, which I think was 8 months–she’d collapse as soon as she got home, which gave me 2-3 days per week of sanity, which made the other days more manageable. As soon as she turned a year old, we started running with her, almost every day. It turns out that she loves running (being with people! getting exercise! yay!) but that it really tires her out. 5 miles and she’s done. Going places also tires her out–she runs errands with us when the weather is safe, she comes to breweries, my SO never goes to Lowe’s without her. We spend a lot of time at the dog park so she can zoom around with her friends. We did obedience, obviously, and I would have tried agility but none of the classes would work in my schedule.
I can’t say that any one single thing did the trick (maybe daycare, if I had to pick?), but using them all in combination, we survived and now have a pleasant, reasonably even-keeled family member. I don’t know that she’s ever going to be the easiest dog ever, and I don’t know that I’d ever get another GSD, but now that she’s settled down, I love her silly little face to pieces.
Puppy Blues
Thank you so much for sharing. This makes me feel much better and I am glad your dog has turned out so well!
anon.
We have a GSD! Not from a breeder, from a shelter that literally gave her to us with barely any paperwork, but still. You need to make sure the dog is getting both mental and physical exercise, NOT just physical. Ours is 6 now and still high energy. We take her to the dog park every single day and give her a walk at night (and yes, we have kids, so it’s… a lot). We try to do training every day as well, because she really needs mental stimulation. By “training” I mean 5-10 minutes of ringing the doorbell and getting her to stay put, or just getting her to go into her bed or to a certain spot in the room.
Anon
I adopted a six month old coonhound and he was so, so challenging as a puppy. I lived in a high rise apartment in DC at the time and kind of wanted to scream at the dog rescue for letting me (a first-time dog owner – I didn’t even grow up with pets) take home a country working dog who should never have been imported to the city in the first place (but I totally get that that’s where the adopters are and he would have been put down otherwise). Three things that helped: 1) dog parks – for HOURS on Saturdays, 2) time/age/maturity, and 3) serious training. Because my dog is a working dog, I trained him like a working dog – with an e-collar. Look for trainers near you who are former police/military and they’ll know how to train a dog. Yes, it cost maybe $500 or so, but it was invaluable and life-changing for all parties ;) Now at age 3, our dog is so well-behaved, in a way I despaired he ever would be.
Anon
The only way out is through. I think you just need to let your puppy grow up a bit.
Or find her another home because you picked the wrong breed.
Anonymous
I have a 12 year old lab that is still really, really high energy. He’s wonderful and I know we’re entering our twilight years with him, despite still acting like a 4 month old puppy. But don’t get too confident that he’ll “grow out of it”. Ours did not.
Anonymous
Velcro, high energy dog owner here. I recommend getting her spayed as soon as you can. There is mixed research on whether waiting until the 1 year mark really has any impact on temperament/health. Then, get her into doggy daycare as quickly as possible. Preferably one that is a good match for her energy levels.
I also really like the books written by the Monks of New Skete – they specialize in GSD breeding and behavior challenges. They help me focus on areas where I can do better as a Velcro dog owner. They also do a sleep away camp for GSDs. There are similar dog trainers that do specialized sleep away training that may help you out a ton in the long run, especially since it seems like there is an initial mis-match between your expectations and the dog’s behavior.
It sounds like you are vested in your dog’s best interest, hang in there!
Spaying
We basically came to a compromise of spaying her at 8 months because we desperately needed to get into doggie day care. In the mean time, we sent her to working dog training (with an e-collar). Worth the money!
Yes
There is a light at the end of the tunnel! But I would like to introduce you to dog day care. Ours goes three times a week. One of us is biglaw, so it makes sense time-wise and financially. We have a working dog breed, so it’s absolutely necessary. We also have a walker who comes by midday on days pup is not at daycare, even on the weekends. We take pup out to run/do lots of activities on the weekends.
We also spent money on a board and train 2 week program. We finally eased up on the rules at around age 1, which in our home meant allowing puppy on furniture and our bed. Puppy grew up to be the best dog ever! But I used our funds to help us survive the puppy season–training, dog daycare, walker, occasionally boarding puppy for a night or two to get some sleep, etc.
active dogs
I have a different breed of dog than you, but still a large energetic breed. Both of my dogs started to really calm down around 18 months, and grew even mellower as they approached 3 years. They still run several miles with my partner, and they play together actively in the yard several times a day, but otherwise when they’re in the house, they’re no longer constantly yapping, barking, trying to play with each other, trying to play with my dining room table, trying to play with my cat, trying to outbark with the neighbor dog through the wall, trying to rip up all the blankets, trying to chew threw as many toys as possible, play with their water bowl, play with the rugs, play with the chairs, etc. etc. etc. which is what they were like in that post-potty-training pre-18-month stage. It was pretty brutal.
Lilly
Big dog puppyhood can last about 2 years. I’ve had a German Shepard, raised from young puppyhood, and it is a lot of work and patience. If you can make it through the next 2 years, you’ll probably have a wonderful friend. After the Puppyhood From Hell, mine settled down to be a sweetheart cuddler who was just as happy on the sofa or in the bed as she was out playing and running. She did want to be physically close, and I let her sleep with me or sit on the sofa with me. I’d come home from a crappy day, and she would sit next to me and lean on my shoulder, and it was the zen of dog. She is long gone, and I miss her still. Puppies are stressful!
Em
I am looking for a really good vegetarian recipe to make for a friend who is coming over for dinner this weekend. Any suggestions?
Your Friendly Furloughed Fed
https://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-ina-gartens-roasted-vegetable-lasagna-recipes-from-the-kitchn-217155
Cookbooks
This Spiced Butter Pappardelle is delicious! And it’s not too difficult to make, either.
https://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/pappardelle-with-spiced-butter-recipe.html
Lilliet
https://minimalistbaker.com/easy-chana-masala/
Anonymous
This is my all-time favorite meal my husband makes. It is magical and delicious and warming and I wish he would make it every day.
https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/03/west-african-inspired-vegan-peanut-sweet-potato-soup-recipe.html
NYC Anon
https://frommybowl.com/lentil-bolognese-recipe/
A
https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/ this salad or this soup https://www.gimmesomeoven.com/cajun-corn-chowder/
this recipe is great especially with a parmesan polenta https://www.cookinglight.com/recipes/braised-butternut-squash-short-rib
https://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/gemelli-salad-with-green-beans
https://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/eggplant-parmesan
LSAT gift bag
A mentee is taking the LSAT on Saturday and is feeling really anxious. Two questions: what words of wisdom would you have appreciated a week before, and what small gifts would be appreciated? I’d like to put together a small little goodie bag to cheer her on. Thanks!
Anonymous
Pack them a day of bag with 1) the right kind of pencils, 2) snacks (protein and sugar, maybe a baby bell and small candy), 3) a bottle of water, 4) Kleenex pack, 5) a kind note. All in a gallon ziplock.
Then they don’t have to spend brain power on logistics. Also, this is kind of you!
Anon
I like the idea of the day of bag! Another suggestion would be cough drops (I always got paranoid about having a cough attack in a quiet room).
SC
At this point (4 days out), focus only on the section you’re weakest on. Two days out, stop studying and relax. Get some good sleep all week.
Not sure what her living situation is. I was in college apartments. I would have appreciated an eye mask and some ear plugs, and maybe some coffee, because the baseball players who lived above us decided to throw a party the Friday night before the LSAT. I just checked the LSAT website, and it is apparently still the case that very little is allowed in the test room, so I’d check that list before buying anything for her to take into the test. (For example, it appears that a water bottle or coffee mug would be prohibited.)
SC
Clarification–they allow a beverage, up to 20 oz, in a plastic container or juice box, and everything has to fit in a gallon ziplock. I meant that most travel mugs would apparently not be allowed.
Also, if you buy anything for test day, I’d throw in one of those 2-packs of Advil. Getting a headache mid-test is the worst!
Anon
Is she taking it for the first time for autumn 2019 admission?
If so, the words of wisdom are to do her best, but retake in June if she doesn’t get the score she wants or into the schools she is targeting.
The advice I give, far more than a week out, is to learn to succeed at high-stakes, one-shot testing. Whether or not it is a good metric to use, most of your law school grades and the bar exam follow that model.
Anonymous
Fill her gallon bag, baller pencils, ibuprofen and maybe immodium, tissues, chapstick, hand sanitizer, bottle of water, luna bar, almonds, and maybe candy.
Dahlia
My mom sent me a fruit basket the week before my surgery board exam with a sweet note about remembering to eat well and stay hydrated and that I would do great. I loved it!
Second Homes?
Totally frivolous first world question, inspired by this past long weekend away to a resort/mountain town that my husband and I were in – do people buy second homes anymore? We were sitting at dinner in this cute little town, where I could see myself spending a significant chunk of time (at some point in the distant future), and that many people buy second homes in. We were at dinner and my husband said, “Isn’t think place wonderful? Wouldn’t it be great to have a second home here?” He was only about half kidding on this. I immediately jumped to the practical questions – the cost of maintaining a home aside, would it be practical to even have a second home? Based on my observations of other families that I grew up with who had second homes and the few people I know now (mid-late 50’s now/already retired) who have them, it seems like (1) you have to spend a significant chunk of time there in order to justify even having it (not just an occasional weekend, but several weeks strung together or an entire summer/season at the house), (2) anytime you have time off, instead of going somewhere new or different you feel obligated to go to the house, (3) renting seems to mostly not work out (your stuff doesn’t get treated very well, constantly replacing couches/appliances/missing utensils, or you don’t have consistent rentals, or you’re working with an agency that costs a fair bit each month) and (4), when you’re at the house, you’re constantly working on it (replacing the roof, painting, buy the aforementioned replacement items).
Granted, I’m in my early-ish thirties, so I definitely don’t have the money to devote to a second home at this pointin my life, but it seems like if you do, then you most likely work a job where taking several weeks of vacation at one time or working remotely for several weeks isn’t very practical. I just don’t know of any of my peers (or even people who are a decade older than me) who are doing this or thinking about this, so I was wondering if this was something that anyone in their thirties or even early forties was doing anymore? How often are they actually using them? How far is it away from where they live the rest of the time? Just curious.
Anon
Where I live it’s extremely common to own a cottage (which can vary from a shabby shack to a mansion on the lake), but I don’t see people my age (early 30s) buying them. Instead they use or inherit their parents’ or grandparents’ cottage because nobody can afford a second home these days, and most cottages tend stay in the family – they were built decades ago when land was cheap. I think another factor is the days when women were SAHMs who would spend summers at the cottage with the kids, with husbands driving up on weekends, are over.
Equestrian Attorney
Yep, this. In my area it’s also common to own a cottage but most people my age use their family cottage. Prices are crazy these days and most people can’t afford it. But I do know someone who owns 5 (used his family place which he inherited as security for the loans) and rents them out on Airbnb full time. He does well, but it’s a TON of work. His plan is to go into early retirement once they are all paid off, live in one and manage the others. The ones he bought are all small and not super fancy, but all waterfront, near a ski resort and close (about an hour) to a major city, which I suspect is the only reason the finances work out.
Regular going anon
I’ll bite. We have a second home in the nearby wine country. We aren’t alone – many of our friends do too. The distinguishing factor though is we don’t have kids, neither do our friends with second homes – none of us have the extra expenses associated with kids so we have extra income to play with. We offset the cost by vacation renting it on weekends when we aren’t using it, and we have property managers who handle that aspect as well as basic maintenance. We see it as an investment we can use (the area is appreciating) so it’s not all just luxury/frivolous (this may not be the case with every vacation town). We also list it on home swap sites, so when we travel internationally we tend to stay in other vacation rentals through that for “free” (free because we traded for nights at our place). We love the town where our home is, really enjoy not having to plan a weekend away, and we love entertaining our friends and family there. We go pretty often 1-3 times a month depending on the time of year.
Anonymous
can you tell us about the home swap sites? I just bought a second home this year and this is intriguing to me – like renting it out with others “in the trenches”.
Regular going anon
Sure – we use love home swap. They have 2 options, points or direct exchange. We prefer points because we like the flexibility in travel plans. You get more “bang for the buck” with direct swaps, but I think you have to be really active in seeking out people to trade with. We are more passive and just let people approach us. You do need a self check-in process though (most likely) as our rental company doesn’t book these for us, and you need to make sure they’re on board. We book out the days as owner days and then are available for questions, etc. We also don’t offer our place during high season.
Anonymous
My BIL and SIL have a second home, and the issues are exactly as you describe. It is a 12-hour drive from their home, so they only go a few times a year. Each of their adult children uses the house maybe once a year. They don’t rent out the house because it’s not worth it. They are constantly working on the house, and every time they go they spend a lot of their time cleaning and doing laundry. It doesn’t make sense for them to retire there because medical care in that rural area is limited. BIL has started making noises about selling the place, but SIL has a sentimental attachment to it because they bought it when their kids were little, even though they only spent a couple of weeks there every year.
I don’t know anyone my age (40ish) or younger who owns a vacation property, but I do know several people who use vacation homes their parents bought when they retired.
Anon
Something else to add to this– if you have your own second home, you have to go to “your” home and not go with friends. My parents never really had the money to buy a second house growing up, but now that they do, they have said they wouldn’t want to because they prefer to go to the lake to socialize etc. so they just go when their friends invite them, which is all the time.
I’m in my late 20, so I also do not know people in my peer group that do this, but in the town I grew up in, everyone went to “the lake” on the weekends. These lakes were about an hour from town, so no one really saw this as a vacation destination. Everyone also went on vacation to the beach or somewhere else at another point in the summer. (No one really went on international trips.) Because the lake was only about an hour away, people literally did this every weekend during the summer and on most holidays. In contrast, everyone I know that has a “beach house” or something like that that is 4+ hours away either has it on VRBO mainly as an investment or purchased it late in life specifically planning to retire in the house.
Anonymous
You could always invite your friends to your home…
Anonymous
Yes definitely. One of my friends bought a second home in a ski town. She decorated it to be renter friendly (classic lines, not a lot of stuff around, no personal knick-knacks) and rents it out for the entire season every year, and then lists it on air BnB for weekends the rest of the year. They have a cleaning company and a property manager to handle that side of things. The house is 3 hours away, so March-November they’re up there every long weekend and one or two other weekends a month. They still take vacations to other interesting places. It’s not for me, but they love it!
K120
I grew up in a mountain town with a lot of second homes. It seemed to be two main types. Those who lived a couple hours away and used the second home for 2-3 weekends a month during ski season and less often during the summer. The other set was snow birds who lived there for 3-4 months during the summer when Florida and Arizona are too hot. The age group using their home on the weekend was in the 30s to 50s range especially when their kids were old enough to ski. The second group is obviously skewed towards retired people.
KW
My BIL and SIL are upper 30’s, live in the Midwest, and have a 2nd home in Florida. They go there several times a year, with or without their kids, and otherwise rent it out during the year. They inherited a significant sum of money from several deaths in SIL’s family which is how they were able to afford it.
AFT
I live in the Chicago area, ~1-2 hours from SW Michigan and the Lake Geneva area which are both common “lake house” vacation spots. I agree that I don’t know many within my (largely) upper middle class circle who own second homes. Among the folks I know who do own second houses, generally (a) it’s a family home inherited from a prior generation or purchased by older family members; (b) one of the adults in the family is in the trades/construction, so can DIY the building or maintenance to some degree; and/or (c) it was purchased as an investment property and the family rents out the house for much of the year.
I love renting a lakehouse for ~1 week per year in the summer, but I wouldn’t want the stress of maintaining/renting it.
Anonymous
I’m in my mid-30s. I’ve got one set of friends that own a beach house, and that’s it. I still have a lot of friends that live in HCOL cities and don’t own first homes, much less second homes. My friends that have a beach house bought it with family money (they have enough that they don’t have to work) with the intention of it being an investment and rent it out. In order to get some tax benefit of counting it as a rental property, they can only actually use it for some short amount of time per year (I think it’s like 2 or 3 weeks?), which doesn’t seem worth it to me. Even if I could afford it, I don’t think I’d own a second home because I like to go different places and wouldn’t want to feel like I had to go to the same place all the time. I do know a lot of partners have my firm have second homes on nearby lakes that they use on the weekends. These aren’t fancy vacation lake areas, but just local lakes an hour or so away that you can ski/boat on.
Anon
I used to want to own a second home, but seeing my parents manage my grandparents’ home (in a resort area) after they passed away disabused me of that desire very quickly. Managing an older, single family home from a distance is hell. And even with renting the house out almost all the the time, my parents are still barely breaking even on the taxes/maintenance/cleaning costs. A newer, smaller place (like a high-rise condo) might be easier (building handles maintenance, less to go wrong, etc) but it’s still not appealing to me anymore. I’ll take the money I would have put towards the down payment and just use it to travel instead . You can always go back to the same area over and over again. Even if you stay in a hotel or vacation rental instead of your own home, you will start to feel like a local once you’ve gone enough.
Anonymous
This. You don’t need to own to have a family tradition around a vacation location. We don’t own in Italy but we go back to the same place every year and then spend the other week discovering a new part of Europe.
Anon
Ooh where in Italy do you go back to? I love Italy, and my dream is to go back regularly but my problem is every time I visit a new area of the country I love it, so I can’t settle on just one place to be my home base.
Anonymous
I love beaches so the Tuscany seacoast – generally Roccamare/Castigilone della Pescaia although this year we’re trying Marina di Carducci area because MIL found a place she wants to try for her birthday. Late June/early July is the best time because it’s warm enough to swim but not overcrowded. Fly into Rome and drive north or Pisa and drive south. European schools generally end after the first week of July so things start to get busier then.
Anon
Thanks for the info! We’ve been going in May because I love the shoulder season, but that won’t be doable once our oldest is in school (soon) so I’m glad to hear June is really nice too. I really try to avoid Europe in July/August.
Anonymous
In the Air BnB era I think there is a trend away from second homes. Like why buy and have the hassles that come with that, when you can rent.
My parents and their friends had lake cottages but most of my generation doesn’t and I’m not interested in my parents place, even if they gave it to me. It’s not just a cost of buying in situation, it’s also the time and energy that goes into maintaining the second place. I can barely keep up with my city house, I don’t need a second set of cleaners and gardeners to manage.
My friends and I also seem to do more international travel for vacations in different locations vs. weeks at the lake in the summer in the same location.
Mpls
Yup – we call them lake cabins here (range of quality of homes fit into that definition). Some people inherit from the parents, so that they are splitting the responsibility of the home with siblings, and then they have to coordinate who’s using the cabin when.
But it’s really common here (Minnesota) that people leave the metro area to “go north” to the cabin on the weekends during the summer. Anywhere from a 2-5 hr drive, depending where your place is. My aunt/uncle bought a place (he works, she doesn’t, kids are in HS/college), and she’ll go up there for chunks of time during the summer and he’ll come up on the weekends. They’re generous about inviting people/family to visit them there and hang out on the lake (they’ve got a boat/dock) for the weekend.
FP
My family has a second home (my parents owned it and recently “gifted” it to me and my two adult siblings, through a trust, though in practice they still manage it), and most times I think it’s not worth it. We live a plane ride + a 2 hour drive away so most years, we’ll get there once, if it all. It’s a 3BR house which means it’s not really big enough for anyone else in my family to come spend time with us – it’s not a setup for more than one family at a time. It’s also on a location that, while nice, definitely gets old and I’d rather put my vacation funds elsewhere. My siblings who live much closer comment that they feel obligated to travel there instead of new vacation locations. First world problems, yes! But just wanted to comment with our experience.
Anon
We have spent long weekends and a week in the summer for YEARS in the Russian river area. We love it there and always thought we’d end up buying a place and maybe retiring there, selling our big house closer to the city and using the proceeds as retirement income.
Twice we’ve been in a buying posture and looked seriously at properties in the area. Twice we’ve backed out. Our reasons are:
1) we can really only afford unexpected maintenance on our primary home. If we had a big unexpected thing happen to a rental home it would be a huge financial hit for us
2) the vacation homes in the area we like all face septic issues – no city sewers available, and there are serious restrictions on any new septic tanks
3) the Santa Rosa and Napa and Paradise fires ruined, for us, the fantasy of living in the woods, so retiring there is out
4) we are so busy with kid sports, husband’s band, etc on the weekends that we’d be lucky to get up there more than 3-4 times per year
Looking at all of that, and considering closing costs and maintenance, paying someone else rental income for their place a total of ten days per year seems like a pretty good deal to us.
Seafinch
So we have a bit of a unique situation, but we bought a summer place before we were 35. We had a one year old. We bought it for quite cheap, in a rural place where I come from. The location is bucolic and very Martha’s Vinyard (Canadian style). The house needed a bit of real work and is definitely shabby but we knew we wanted a bunch of kids and would be spending a few weeks every summer visiting family so we did it. It can be a slight pain the butt. The timing wasn’t ideal. We didn’t go there for almost five years because of a really remote posting, followed by a international posting. We are now back on track and the general summer plan is that we drive every year, the 16 hour drive over a few days, make a trip out of it and stay for three weeks. We do some work, visit family, sail, go the beach, eat lots of lobster, hike etc. We spend about 10K a year on carrying it (mortgage, utilities, tax etc). This can easily increase with projects; first year we did a new roof for 17K, next year siding for 14K, last year a new deck and some repairs for another 3K). Our goal is to have it in the kind of shape to be able to Airbnb it if we want in the next couple of years so it pays for itself but we don’t need to do that. Even though we only go once a year, we love it. It is a bit of work managing it (help is hard to hire in that region) but worth it. It has increased in value and is in an absolutely beautiful town with a light house across the bay, water access, great cafes, a liquor store, great restaurants, fun yacht club and other required amenities like hardware store, grocery store, and pharmacy.
Em
We own a lake house with my parents that is a 30 minute drive from our home in the suburbs. My dad and I are very much on the same page financially and they are not the type to hold financial gifts over our head, which is the reason it works. They shoulder more of the finances and we do more of the physical work. Even with it being fairly close, it is still a ton of work. We spend almost every weekend down there in the summer, though, and do a lot of entertaining there. Our plan is to buy my parents out when we retire and move down there full time.
baseballfan
Two years ago we bought a vacation rental on the coast about 5 hours from home. We had been talking about wanting to do it for years as it’s in a town that I grew up visiting and have always thought of as my happy, relaxing place.
Its location is very seasonal so we rent it out all summer and only go there in the off season. We have a local property management company that takes care of everything regarding the rentals – reservations and payment, marketing, maintenance, and everything else. I hardly even have to think about it.
The rentals don’t 100% cover the costs, we still have to feed it, but it comes close. In my opinion it’s one of the best decisions we ever made. We look forward to going there and we have had family and friends visit, and it has been really fun to host them.
Eventually we might even move to that area, so this gives us a chance to spend a week or two there at a time to get to know the location better as a part-time resident. Both of our jobs allow remote work (my husband is full time telework and I have flexibility to be remote as I want to), so that is obviously a factor that works in our favor. I realize most people wouldn’t have the ability to spend large amounts of time away from home that way.
Regular going anon
I forgot to add the remote work piece is also huge for us, we can both do that too and set up the place with high speed internet, etc.
Northwest Islander
I am a single mid-30s woman and I bought a second home last summer. For a couple of reasons:
– I am likely at peak income this year so good time to get financing.
– Needed to diversify investments; I cashed in a huge chunk of stock to make purchase in cash (but am financing a major reno/expansion).
– I love my metro area and want to retire here. Property is on an island but walkable and a quick ferry ride to world class medical and other amenities.
– This is huge: my mom has Alzheimer’s and I knew her care would one day require all my parents’ income/assets to fund. If and when my mom moves into memory care, I would rather “support” my dad in a house I own that is appreciating vs. write checks to memory care every month. Dad can “afford” memory care for mom if his expenses are nearly zero; not so if he also has to support himself. Until then I will enjoy my weekend house, which is also only one mile from a fantastic memory care facility when the time comes.
Regular going anon
Your last point also factored greatly into our decision as well. It’s a plan B for parental care down the road and great vacay place in the meantime.
In House Lobbyist
We bought a second home that we rent out at our favorite beach location. We vacationed there 10 years before buying a place and also had money we had to put into another piece of real estate for tax purposes. We love it- we rent it out and it actually makes enough to cover all expenses and then a little on the side. When we pay off the mortgage, it will make real income. True, we spend most vacations there but we have small kids and it is a great family place. I do a lot of the work myself to rent it and we have to pay someone local to handle cleanings. We love it and hope to buy another one in the next few years.
Anonymous
My family has had a lake house at a lake about 3 hours from where I live for nearly 50 years. It went from my grandfather to my uncle, who has no kids and is now looking for someone to take it on when he passes away. I have already said I am not interested, even though I’m the only grandchild with the means to take over ownership of the house and keep it running. I don’t want the hassle of maintaining my own home and the lake house, which has been well-maintained over the years but will still need some significant investment to keep it in good shape. It’s not in a populated-enough area to make putting it on AirBnB worth it in the low seasons, and everyone in my family wants to use it (and bring their friends) in the high season. My aunt and uncle spend a lot of time cleaning the house after people have come through. It just seems like a huge hassle to me and not something I’m interested in. I take vacations to go different places and see new things – spending a lot to go back to the same place over and over doesn’t appeal to me.
Anon
Anyone else still stuck in mod every time, even with the “save my email” trick? I don’t bother with that on mobile anymore because it doesn’t work anyway. Did the perma-mod list somehow get reinstated and I found myself on it?
Worry about yourself
I just got a comment auto-modded, and I have no idea why. I was on the auto-mod list for a while, so maybe that is happening. I hope not, I liked being out of mod jail and I swear I was being good.
Anonymous
Busy professionals (especially lawyers) – how are you finding time to date/even able to meet people? I recently came out of a very difficult breakup with the person I had been with for 5 years, and it seems the dating landscape is an entirely new world. I am just now coming around to being emotionally available, but having no luck on dating apps – it’s such slim pickings on there. Even if I was having luck, I don’t know when I would have time to date/get to know someone. I am a biglaw associate, so most of my time is spent at work, and the time that I am not at work I spend at yoga, recovering from work (with zero energy to even swipe on these dating apps), or seeing my friends and family who I rarely get to see because of work. I would much rather meet someone in person, but it doesn’t seem feasible. Am I doomed to just be single? Where have people met their signif. other (and I don’t mean 10 years ago, because it’s not the same world anymore!)?
Anonymous
I make a point of doing some solid swiping on Bumble daily (find ten minutes) and reach out to anyone interesting. It’s def hit or miss but you have to make time to do something. First dates are usually drinks at 8 on a weeknight, second dates get a weekend time slot.
Equestrian Attorney
Honestly most lawyers I know date other lawyers, unless they were already coupled up before becoming lawyers. There was a surprising number of couples at my old firm, and I even knew people dating opposing counsel (after the file was over…) or people they had met through various professional networks. I do know some people who have had success with dating apps, mostly when they pair up with other busy professionals.
Shopaholic
It’s hard. Honestly, you just have to prioritize it if it’s something you want in your life. I’m also a lawyer at a busy boutique firm who works a lot. I am open to a variety of people and swipe probably a couple days a week. I start conversations with everyone I match with (on Bumble) and then only pursue the ones where the conversation seems to be flowing. I’ll meet someone for a drink usually early in the week after work, somewhere that’s either close to my office or my condo and just take it slow. I prioritize my friendships but also aim for probably 2-3 first dates a month
AnonLondon
Biglaw senior associate here. I went on a lot of meh dates off of dating sites/apps with my limited free time as a junior associate and mostly hated it. Have had far better luck romantically when I prioritise doing things I already like and going to friends’ gigs/parties/bars/events rather than trying to force anything. Met my husband at a friend’s house party, and my last significant relationship before him (with a guy who’s still a pal and was at our wedding) was with someone I got to chatting with at another friend’s gig (largely populated by second and third degree acquaintances).
Anon
Not pressing…just curious. Some “outdated” comments on some recent posts got me thinking about the downfall of fashion designers and brands. I can think back to when owning a Coach or Michael Kors bag was all the rage and now you can find both at TJ Maxx. How does this happen? My area turned to Kate Spade and then Tory Burch…both of whom I still carry/wear. What are some brands that you still wear that others have deemed outdated? What makes you move on from a brand? I typically carry/wear what I like and don’t worry about what others call outdated….but it does feel less special when you know the designer is in a bargain bin somewhere.
Anon
Coach used to be the bag of professional women because they were designed for adults and lasted forever. Once they started splashing logos all over them, making them “fashionable,” and marketing to teenagers, women moved to Kate Spade.
This is why I’ve moved on from Ann Taylor – the quality has gone down and is no longer what I would wear to the office.
Anon
I agree with your comment and just wanted to put in a plug for buying used vintage coach bags on eBay. I have a couple of shoulder bags from maybe the 1980s? that i love. My 17 year old daughter has stolen one from me and uses it whenever she needs a purse, so I guess they’re classic enough to look cool.
For a better quality leather bag that is made right now, I like Cuyana.
Cat
+1 on vintage Coach, when the focus was on beautiful craftsmanship rather than mass market logo blanketing. I was given a few crossbody bags in the 90’s and still use them on weekends.
Mid-level luxury brands are tough to sustain, I think. True luxury brands for the most part seem OK with their self-limiting wealthy clientele. Brands in the “expensive but achievable” category like Coach get hot, get greedy, borrow money to expand, and now they’re facing investor pressure. In trying to drive costs down and sales up, quality and messaging suffers, thus causing the original target audience to abandon it. The brand lives for awhile on the secondary audience, but if the original (i.e., aspirational) owners have moved on, eventually the secondary audience does too…. and then it’s bargain bin status.
Elbe
+1
Ms B
Eh, this is why I avoid trendy stuff and go for classics that work for my needs and that I use until they more or less fall apart. I have a lot of specific requirements for purses for daily use (must zip shut, must be crossbody or have a convertible strap, must fit my favorite style of wallet, must have at least one outside pocket I can slip my phone into) and once I find something that works and that I like, I tend to get it in multiple colors or leathers.
That said, I generally do not care about what is in fashion or in local style. In fact, I generally prefer brands that are “under the radar” and that provide good value for the dollar or, better still, custom pieces; nothing turns me off more than a bag (or shoes, or coat) that is “of the minute”. I still have my vintage Coach bags and use them regularly; same goes for my older Longchamps. Frye boots are and remain the shizzle. I love Burberry coats and scarves and Max Mara coats and my AGLs. Michael Kors/Tory Burch/Vinyard Vines/Hunters? Not so much. But that’s just me . . .
Weight Loss
Frustrated.
I lost about 20 pounds last year and had 10 to go. But then life happened (not in a good way) and I gained 13 pounds. So presumably I have about 20-25 pounds to lose now. But the scale is not moving. I am eating super clean, IF, working out and 3 weeks into this, I went down 2 pounds immediately (probably water weight) and now the scale is just stuck (and/or moving up by .2 pounds). Seeing the scale creep up is really frustrating and demoralizing. I’m still in my 30s so I don’t think it’s perimenopause. Any suggestions? I know it takes time but not seeing any movement is making things worse.
Anon
I feel like when I lost weight, I was the same weight for like three months and then one day lost 30 lbs overnight. How long have you been at it?
Anon
+1
And the opposite is also true – it takes me 3+ weeks to gain weight. In other words, I will think I’m getting away with eating more but then it all hits at once. So rude!
Anonymous
For me, eating clean and fasting don’t really matter. I can manage to eat tons of calories of clean food. The only thing that’s ever work is tracking calories and no alcohol.
Anonymous
This. I don’t know what ‘super clean’ means but you still have to watch your overall calories. You can eat too much healthy food.
Anon
Life is always going to happen and dieting doesn’t work. You can beat yourself up about it or embrace a moderate diet and exercise routine and see what happens.
Anon
Could it be hormones? My weight will not budge and usually goes up a little bit right before I get my period. I’ve heard from other women that the same thing happens to them but at different parts of their cycle.
Also, I second the other comments about tracking calories. Weight loss is ultimately physics — you need to expend more energy than you’re taking in.
Worry about yourself
Same, I felt like I was fighting an uphill battle with weight gain last week, and then dropped 3 lbs over the weekend, not-so-coincidentally after my period ended, which confirmed my suspicions that it was (mostly) hormonal. Let’s see if I can keep the momentum going though, first spin class tonight!
Lobbyist
I joined StrongerU and have lost 10 lbs and kept it off. You get a coach who tells you how much to eat each day of fat, carbs and protein (you decide which foods to make numbers work) and once a week you send in your numbers on a spreadsheet. There is an active FB community. I have found the combination of flexibility and accountability to be helpful. Its not cheap and they rarely have discounts, but I first tried for 12 weeks and liked it so much I re upped for a year, and probably will do a second year after that.
Kk
I spend 120-150 nights per year in hotels. I’ve been carrying a hot hair tool (either a flat iron or a curling iron) with me for the last 5 years- I find that I need a round with either of these to feel sleek and polished, and I can’t achieve it with a hotel hair dryer alone.
Do you all find that with a better hair dryer, you can get to the more polished results without using a second tool? Should I start carrying a hair dryer with me? Alternately, have any of you tried the new dyson wave tool? It looks amazing, and like I could get from a rough dry to polished waves in one step, but alas it’s sold out everywhere.
Anon
I absolutely find I have better results with a better quality hair dryer. I didn’t want to spend the money on one and didn’t think it would make much of a difference, but it definitely has! Mine is by Parlux. I haven’t tried the Dyson, though I’ve heard it’s incredible, that’s still too pricey for me.
My most recent discovery though, which is something I love even more than my hair dryer, is the “Revlon One Step Volumizer Hair Dryer.” I absolutely did not think it would work and am generally very skeptical of two-in-one products, but I was shocked by how well this works for me! Granted, I have shoulder-length and thin/fine hair, so someone with more hair might not have as much luck. But I’ve found this gives me fantastic results with just one tool, so it’s my go-to now.
Anon
I’m the Anon from above – I thought you were talking about the Dyson hair dryer, I hadn’t heard of the wave tool before, but it looks nice! It’s similar to what the Revlon dryer does but without as many options.
Anon
+1 I just replaced my old, drugstore hair dryer with a ~$90 one I bought at Costco and the difference is HUGE. My hair looks so much better now and I’m kicking myself for waiting so long to replace the old one.
Anonymous
If the hotel hairdryer has a concentrator attachment, you should be able to achieve results similar to flatironing by sectioning your hair and blow-drying with a round brush (or even a paddle brush, depending on your hair). Not all hotel hairdryers have concentrators, though.
Anon
I used to travel as much or more, and when I finally threw my shoulder out hefting my roller up into the bin, I decided to permanently lighten up. I bought a smaller, lighter rolling bag, and got rid of a lot of stuff I routinely carried, including my hot tools.
I got my hair cut into a longish bob. I have a somewhat wavy natural texture, so sometimes I do finger twists and let my hair dry naturally. Sometimes I blow dry it and do my best to get it smooth. But the big thing was accepting my hair the way it is and you know what, it has not set my career back one bit, and my shoulder feels much better.
I travel less now, 3-4 days one or two weeks per month, and I’ve kept the lighter suitcase and streamlined packing.
Senior Attorney
Yes! My husband bought me a Dyson hair dryer for Christmas and I was shocked to find that it really does make my moderately curly hair look great and smooth even without a second tool.
Love my airwrap
I bought the Dyson Airwrap in December (my gift to myself with a portion of my bonus) and it is hands down one of the best purchases I’ve made. My hair dries and is styled in a fraction of the time that it used to take me just to dry it. I highly recommend it. The case it comes in is quite large so would not be great for frequent travel. But if you experiment at home and realize that you only need a couple of the attachments while on a work trip, it could work.
Anonymous
I wash my hair at night and then use a set of hot rollers (travel set) in the morning. It’s been a game changer, and a time saver. Not blow drying has also been much better for my hair.
NOLA
Just wanted to check in, say thanks to all of you who chimed in on my question about being open to meeting someone new, etc. last week. I read all of the comments and, although some were pretty harsh, some were on the mark and really made me think about my current situation. My ex-whatever (on again, off again, but little hope for anything more/different) was in town last week and we spent some time together, but it’s clear to me that things are not the same between us and may never be. I want more in my life and he can’t see anything beyond what’s in front of him. We don’t want the same things and probably never will. As much as it scares the living sh!t out of me, I feel like I need to move on – for myself, for my future, for whatever life may hold for me. I said something to him about it yesterday morning and he said he was completely blindsided by that. I wrote him a long email telling him everything I’m feeling and, from his answer, while it makes him sad, he’s not willing to change anything, nor do I think he ever will, even if it means losing my support in his life. Soooooo, I’m working on extricating myself from this relationship. I know I should just break it off, but I waited until after he left (kept hoping things would be better?) so I feel I need to be gentle. I don’t need a harsh response to this, so save it. I’m trying to do what’s right for me, while respecting a relationship of over 10 years that needs to end.
Anonymous
Good for you!
Anonymous
Good for you for making the change. Set yourself some limits around the relationship. Decide how often you will contact him and stick with it. Immediately, that might mean you text every three days. And next month it might be once a week. Or maybe you’re ready for once a week right now. I would also pick a method of communicating and stick with it. I’d suggest email over text as there is less expectation of immediate response. And pick a limit on how much time you’re spending on emailing – is it 4 paragraphs? 10 mins? Don’t let it creep into writing long emails that take a lot of time to write.
You don’t have to ghost him, but you do have to reduce the space he is taking up in your life so that you can fill it with reconnecting with old friends, or new experiences and new people.
NOLA
We don’t text much now. Here and there. Mostly pictures of my cat. But yeah, I think we need to shut down the every day chat and see where we go from here. It hasn’t been good for a while. I think it took this visit and a lot of really good soul searching for me to admit that. We don’t want the same things and he’s hanging on to me because he needs me. It’s not good for me.
Anonymous
If you don’t text much, I would actually delete his number from your phone. Add it to your email address book so you have it if you ever need it. Unfollow on all social media. You don’t need to unfriend. You can also change your social media settings to limit what he sees on your social media – which gives him less opportunity to engage with you. Put an email automatic rule in place that sends all emails from him to a certain folder. Set a time for yourself once a week to check and respond. Feel free to start checking every second week or montly when you are ready.
Anonymous
And I posted this before reading below that you use Gchat. Didn’t even occur to me that you might be chatting daily – that’s a level of interaction that I have with basically only my mom and DH. You definitely need to cut that out.
NOLA
He’s not on social media. He’s 15 years older than I am and a little curmudgeonly about that. So yeah, and he doesn’t email all that much.
Anonymous
Hugs! I am in a similar situation and it has been so helpful to hear that someone else is out there. I looked up the stages of grief and can honestly say I’ve hit almost every stage (I thought I was in acceptance, but turns out I’m just now hitting the sad stage. Ha!). It is so hard not to continue that daily check in, curb the automatic urge to send something, call, etc. I’m spending time reading with my phone and computer off, billing extra hours, catching up with old friends (even some calls – “I saw XYZ happened on fb – tell me more about it!”). I also joined Jr League and am taking a free class through the community college to help give me something new to do. Rooting for you!!
Anon
Short term clean break. Tell him that for your own mental health, you need to go no-contact for 3 months. Whatever feels doable to you. Then you do it. Tell him you might be able to be friends in the future but for now, you need to be out of his life to move on. Stick with it and reevaluate when that date comes. You might not need him in your life anymore.
Mpls
+1. You need a reset to what your new normal is without him.
NOLA
We’ve done that in the past. I broke up with him and cut off all contact. Then, he needed me because he had a family crisis here and started to call me and I took his calls. Slid right back into the relationship.
Anonymous
Well, you need to not do that again then! He doesn’t need you he wants you because you’re awesome and available. You don’t owe him the benefit of your awesomeness!
NOLA
Yep, you’re right. It was a terrible time for him (putting his stepfather in a nursing home) and he felt like he had no one to help him think it through. I did a lot of work for him. But no more.
Senior Attorney
Stick to this. Breakups are called breakups for a reason! Break it off, no backsliding.
I really feel you — it took me three tries to get away from my former husband! The last time, every time I was tempted to contact him, I remembered how I’d regretted it the previous times and that was what helped me stay strong.
Remember, the miracle can’t happen until you are free and available for it!
Hugs!!
NOLA
Thanks, SA! After his visit last week, it really hit me that this is NOT WORKING for me. And it’s not going to work. He and I have different goals. What he wants is to get back to visiting more often. I want a partner in my life. I need to keep reminding myself that I deserve more. It’s seductive because we got together right after my divorce and he was sooooo different from anyone I had been with, but in many ways a great fit. But things change and he hasn’t. He’s happy with where we are now and I’m not. He thought we had a great visit. I didn’t. So there we are.
Senior Attorney
Yes, there you are. Reality is tough but it’s really the only option you’ve got, so congratulations for stepping into it! :)
Anon
Look, I get that this is hard, I really do. But you need to stop making excuses! Either you’re serious about moving on from this relationship or you’re not. He can have all the problems in the world that make you fall right back into your old patterns, but if that happens it means you’re not really serious about moving on.
NOLA
I agree. I didn’t say I was going to do that again. I’m saying it’s what I did in the past.
anon
NOLA, I responded to you last week and told you about how I was in your shoes. I’m proud of you! I will also join those who suggest cutting him off completely. Obviously you don’t have to be mean and you can (even should) explain to him that you need a clean break, but I really feel like a clean break is the only way for you to get your brain rewired away from him. I’ve seen that with myself and with others. I cut off my emotionally unavailable non-partner at the beginning of 2014 and I’m so glad I did. It didn’t take 5 years (honestly the relief started immediately and progressed rapidly), but I look back on it now and am very thankful that I pulled the band aid. Good luck to you!
Anon
I’m so devastated… for family health reasons, I have to re-home my cat. I had a close friend who I thought would want the cat, every time he visits he talks about adopting my cat if I ever needed him to, but for his own personal reasons, he cannot take the cat.
I just don’t even know where to begin – I’ve asked some friends, but no one can take her, and my parents would take her, but I don’t think it’ll be the right fit (my parents have a cat and the two of them do not get along at all). I am so scared to give her up to someone unknown because she is the sweetest, most loving cat, and if I gave her to the wrong person, I could never forgive myself. She is like 5 years old, so I know if I take her to a shelter, she likely wouldn’t get adopted, and I haven’t been able to find a non-kill shelter with space (although I haven’t really looked much into the shelter option). I am just so upset over this and have no idea where to get started. Anyone have any advice?
...
If you use social media, post there. This way, maybe someone you know and trust will take the kitty and, if not, maybe someone they know and trust will take the kitty. The other option could be to ask your vet if they know of someone who is looking to adopt. Maybe they have ideas!
Sending love!
Anonymous
Post her on FaceBook!
Anonymous
Can you afford to generously subsidize her care until she’s adopted? Rescues may have more space if you can make it worth it to them.
joan wilder
I am so sorry. That is very hard. I don’t know which shelter or exactly how it worked but wanted to add my friend recently adopted a cat from a shelter who had been re-homed. He was four, going on five, and they are a perfect match. I think well-behaved cats without significant health issues are adoptable, especially for people looking to skip the (lovable, but so-much-energy!) kitten stage.
...
Sending love <3 Maybe, instead of focusing on what you are feeling like you're losing, try making a list of the traits you want in a partner so you can become really clear. Also, making a list of all you offer to a partnership could be a great way to clarify and to recognize your awesomeness.
Whatever methods you typically use to communicate with him, begin to distance yourself. If you're friends on social media, unfriend or at least unfollow for now (with plans to unfriend later). Unfollow any of his people you are connected to via social media whom you don't think will remain in your life after you've broken the bond with this gentleman. This begins to disconnect you from his world.
Mostly, be kind to yourself, grieve it as you need to, and let yourself feel however you feel as you move forward. <3
NOLA
He’s not on social media and I’m not friends with his friends or family. We mainly chat (using Google chat) in the mornings. It’s become our habit. We used to videochat, but I cut that off after we broke up. It’s been like a check in about things going on in our lives. I have helped him think through and implement some really big things in his life (recently) and he has needed me at times. For me, it’s more like acknowledging that things aren’t so great and our chats often end in miscommunication or one of us feeling bad. It’s not a great medium and we don’t have a lot of time to talk on the phone. Bleah. But I’m trying.
Anon
NOLA, I’m a long time commenter and I think you and i are the same age. Good for you for realizing that this relationship was holding you back (even if you had to hear some harsh words to realize it.)
Ending it now will mean the short term will suck, but a year from now you will be in a much better place. I promise.
Much love headed your way from the west coast. Xoxo
NOLA
Thanks, that’s really sweet. It’s only been recently that I realized how much this relationship was holding me back and how much he and I want different things. Time’s a-wasting and I can’t waste more time on him.
Senior Attorney
Second the “a year from now will be better” sentiment. I told myself that for the whole first year after I left my husband and you know what? I was right! And you will be right, too!
Anonymous
delete Gchat from your phone. That’s a lot of personal contact. Send him an email that you are doing it so he’s not ghosted.
Anon
He doesn’t need you. He would survive without you. He’s using you. Stop letting him.
Anon100
Archive and mute the chat, then sign out of gchat on your computer/laptop, tablet, and phone. That’s what I’ve done. It’s hard. It’s soooo hard the first week or so to not have that daily contact, but in the end, you will be better off.
Anonymous
You need to end it. Firmly and definitively. You don’t need to be nasty, but you need to say “Tom, it’s been great, but it’s clear we aren’t in the same place and don’t want the same things, and I need to move on. Maybe someday we can resume a friendship, but for now I need space to live my life.”
There’s no kinder way to do it. A lengthy gentle extrication process is why you’re still there 10 years later.
NOLA
I have said almost those words to him via email in the past two days. He wants to know why we didn’t have this conversation when he was here, so we could have it in person. I said because I was trying to see if we could actually have fun and be good together. But no, we can’t.
Anon
Stop letting him drag this out. You do not need to give him an explanation or answer to every question.
Anonymous
Then live by your words. Don’t sign into chat. Don’t make yourself available.
NOLA
I have blocked him on chat in the past. Then I don’t even know if he’s on. But his gmail is not his primary email, so he wouldn’t be logged on if he didn’t want to chat. He didn’t sign on this morning and that was fine. I’m going to step back from him and from chat. It’s been a long relationship and we’ve been through a lot together, so I feel like I need to be respectful of what we’ve been, while extricating myself from what we’ve become.
Anon
I’m so devastated… for family health reasons, I have to re-home my cat. I had a close friend who I thought would want the cat, every time he visits he talks about adopting my cat if I ever needed him to, but for his own personal reasons, he cannot take the cat.
I just don’t even know where to begin – I’ve asked some friends, but no one can take her, and my parents would take her, but I don’t think it’ll be the right fit (my parents have a cat and the two of them do not get along at all). I am so scared to give her up to someone unknown because she is the sweetest, most loving cat, and if I gave her to the wrong person, I could never forgive myself. She is like 5 years old, so I know if I take her to a shelter, she likely wouldn’t get adopted, and I haven’t been able to find a non-kill shelter with space (although I haven’t really looked much into the shelter option). I am just so upset over this and have no idea where to get started. Anyone have any advice?
Sorry, re-posting, as I meant to make a separate post.
NOLA
Here in N.O., we have a rescue organization that would be perfect for a situation like this. Maybe look into something like that, rather than a shelter? I’m so sorry you have to do this. I would also be devastated/
Anon
What is the heath reason? Maybe an allergy can be treated, things like carpet replaced, etc. I’m sure you’ve already thought of this though.
Anon
Can you let us know your location so we can offer suggestions?
Keep asking friends! Put something on FB.
Anon
I’m in Manhattan, in NYC. Thank you all for the help and the kind words.
NYC Anon
Anon – can you share more about the cat? Does the cat get along with other cats (maybe you don’t know this…). I’m in NYC area and would potentially be interested (I already have 2 males that get along great).
CL
Fellow cat lady here, I feel your pain. I think leaving her with your parents would be a good option. Cats usually tend to tolerate each other after a while if introduced properly (so much written on the web on this subject) and that way you can still see her when you visit and you know she’s in good hands.
Anon
Try posting on Nextdoor. It’s less sketchy than Craigslist and you may well find someone nice who can take your cat. I had a friend do that in the Boston area on a message board catering to Harvard students and it worked out great. Sorry about your cat :(
Anon cat
Haha, I think we adopted your friend’s cat! Small world! We love him!
Anon
There are some really high quality shelters that offer great quality of life to animals while they’re there. I volunteer at one, and sweet, 5-year old cats get adopted allllll the time there. Ime age (without major health problems) only becomes a barrier at 10+ years for cats, and even then most still get adopted, it just takes a little longer. I think location matters a lot – if you’re willing to post the city, people might have suggestions for high quality shelters like that.
Panda Bear
Same here! My post didn’t reply here but is below – I volunteer at a wonderful shelter in MA (not your neighborhood, I know), but maybe if you called they could recommend shelters with a similar philosophy in the NYC area. It’s called Merrimack Feline Rescue Society. I adopted my kitty there and he was five years old at the time.
Anon
I adopted my cat when an acquaintance had a similar circumstance that meant he couldn’t keep her anymore. I had been on the fence forever about getting a cat and helping out somebody I knew was what finally tipped the scales. It was the best decision I ever made. So I would reach out into your social network to see if there’s anybody out there who would be interested. I bet you’ll find somebody!
Anon
Thanks, all, you are making me feel much better about being able to find the right person! For some background – I’m in NYC (Manhattan). Unfortunately, she doesn’t get along well with other cats (I’ve seen her interact with my parents’ cat and a friend’s cat that I’ve catsat for a couple months). I haven’t seen how she interacts with dogs.
She does get along great with children, I’ve seen her interact with 3 year olds and up (many of them), and they all say that she is their best friend – she let’s them pet her, hug her, hold her, etc, and she just purrs through the whole thing. Even when they get a little rambunctious it doesn’t scare her off, but all of the kids have been pretty well-behaved and mostly gentle with her. She loves basically every human she has ever met, she will just come right up and curl on your lap.
She had some health issues when she first was at the shelter (stones in her bladder), but the shelter cleared it up with prescription food. I switched her to a raw, organic food brand, and she has had no issues for over 3 years on that alone and no prescription food.
I would be willing to cover costs at a rescue or foster organization, so hopefully that will help if I can’t find anyone I know that could take her.
Anon
Awww she sounds like such a sweetheart! I’m sorry you have to find a new home for her and I’m wishing you and your kitty the best!
Anon
I would definitely post on Nextdoor. I adopted my cat via Nextdoor. A neighbor posted a picture of him detailing his needs, her circumstances and one look at him and I knew it was meant to be. He is 9, deaf, and needs to be the only cat as he gets super anxious around other animals. As for his first mom, we started an Instagram account for him that she follows, and I send her pictures on FB messenger occasionally.
Bachelorette help?
Hi ladies! I’m planning a bachelorette in Washington DC. We are all in our late 30s and early 40s. Any suggestions? I’m looking for a fun afternoon activity followed by dinner and then something fun. Want to plan something fun for the bride but she doesn’t want something that solely involves drinking. All suggestions welcome!
Idea
Tea at the Ritz. CapitolSteps performance. Performance at the Kennedy Center (usually very accessible pricing). Old Town Alexandria history or ghost tour. Charter a boat or dinner cruise on the Potomac. Tour Mount Vernon. Go to a museum (are they open). Go to Eastern Shore of Maryland for some beach or to a local park for some outdoors. Idunno. Have fun!
Anon
Escape the Room was a big hit at mine; a lot of the women didn’t know each other, so it allowed everyone to get to know each other in a fun setting.
Anon
Afternoon activity: kayaking under the Key Bridge, scavenger hunt at the zoo or the Natural History Museum, walk around the National Arboretum, segway tour on the mall
Evening activity: bowling (Pinstripes or Lucky Strike) or bocce (lots of bars have bocce), minigolf at H St Country Club, jazz club, escape room, Kennedy Center
Anon
A friend of mine used to give a combo food/walking tour with a tour group if you’re into that!
Anon
For something completely different (and so fun!) I recently went to Bad Axe Throwing for a friend’s bday party. It was amazing, they teach you how to throw the axes and then let you loose! No food/alcohol is served there but you can bring in your own from outside.
Anon
Late response but some options:
– sports game, depending on when you are going
-check the Capital One Center or Anthem, etc. for concerts
-drag brunch – not sure of the name
-duck pin bowling in Georgetown
-I’ve seen people do cake decorating at Milk Bar I believe, looks fun
-escape room
-there’s some arcade-like bars
-dance class – lots of options
If you post again, post time of year! Good luck!
Mortgage vs. all-cash
If you were in the fortunate position of being able to afford a property without getting a mortgage, would you pay all-cash or get a mortgage to free up the cash to invest? It’s a competitive market where an all-cash offer would be more attractive.
Anon
We did all cash and were able to make a slightly lower offer because of it, so I don’t feel like it was a waste of money. I also place a lot of value on being debt-free and am willing to minimize debt even at the expensive of financial growth, which is an unpopular opinion around here.
Anonymous
Couldn’t you buy in cash and then mortgage the property later on if you wanted to?
NYCer
We did all cash in a similar scenario. As another poster mentioned, you can always get a mortgage later on if you decide there is a reason to do so.
Panda Bear
So sorry to hear that – I would be heartbroken too. I volunteer at (and adopted my kitty, who was five years old at the time!) from Merrimack Feline Rescue Society in Massachusetts. I know that’s not in your area, but maybe they have connections/recommendations for NYC area shelters with a similar philosophy, if you gave them a call.
Panda Bear
Oops, meant for the cat poster above!
Wellesley Woman
I can’t get my reply to thread, but to the person who asked what I do: I’m a C-suite executive.