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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I thought I had every possible style of black T-shirt hanging in my closet right now, but this twisted-front style from Target brand Ava & Viv is making me think I need to add one more. The fabric is a cotton/modal/spandex blend, so it’s going to have a good mix of stretchiness and drape, and the V-neck silhouette is super flattering. Pair it with dark denim and sneakers for a pulled-together casual Friday look.
The top is $20 at Target and comes in sizes XXL–4X. It also comes in blue.
An option in straight sizes comes from Tahari ASL; it's on sale for $41.40 (marked down from $69).
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Navy
I need new navy work pants. I love the Rag and Bone Simone pant but it looks like they’re not making them in navy this season. What are some of your favorites? I hate having to shop so I’ll probably do a big online order to try a sampling
Anne-on
The talbots ‘hampshire ankle’ pants are my personal favorite work pants – I’m 5’4 so the length is more or less full length on me, they come in multiple fits and they wash well. The MM LaFleur fosters are also good but a tad tight for work unless I’m wearing them with a longer tunic top/oversized blazer. Ann Taylor Loft’s curvy size Riviera pants are also great but slightly less sturdy than the Talbots ones.
BaltAnon
have you looked on poshmark etc.? I’ve bought those pants in navy on poshmark, and I love them!
anon a mouse
Universal Standard – tailored ponte pants and signature ponte pants.
Anonymous
Y’all. I am a healthcare attorney in a red state that has banned abortion and I am not okay. Many of my clients are womens’ health doctors and since Dobbs I have done very little except break bad news to them. Right now I am editing a guidance document on using mifepristone and I want to cry. Anybody in the same boat want to form a support group?
Healthcare in Texas
I am in a very blue state, but I have written here before about trying to help my brother in Texas access healthcare. I see you. I hear you. Also a lawyer, and I follow all the opinions. Longtime contributor to PP and an abortion fund. We were just talking five minutes before I logged in about the travesty that all the oxygen in our country is spent dealing with elected officials who want to restrict rights (abortion, contraception, healthcare generally, voting, basic civil rights generally) to the extent that we spend virtually no cycles on improving basic K-12 education or keeping our air and water clean or making sure job sites are safe — or any one of the many things that government can and should do to improve people’s lives.
I understand that the attorneys general who are the plaintiffs in the Washington state mifepristone case have petitioned the Supreme Court to resolve the conflict for the FDA. Maybe they have the right idea: it’s time to stop being afraid of taking big cases to a group of nine jurists who will rule against us and time to blow it all open and show the voters what happens. Maybe.
Trish
Yup. Florida is pretty much sinking into the ocean, our house insurance industry is a wreck, homelessness is rampant but DeSantis is out there fighting the “woke” agenda.
Light Pirate
If you really want to get expressed, read the new novel, “the Light Pirate” about Florida.
Healthcare in Texas
Another thought: can the AHLA provide a place to connect with like-minded colleagues?
Anon
I posted over the weekend about wanting more resources to help women as well, specifically to offer practical assistance to obtain abortions. I would love if we could use this site to help identify some good options. For you and other attorneys, maybe sometime you could help us understand the legal limits of providing information to educate rather than to encourage “illegal activity.” That’s not to create more work for you, of course – I’m really sympathetic to what you are seeing in your line of work already. It’s incredibly demoralizing to constantly work in a field where you know your sex is being degraded and denied rights, and where you know your clients are struggling to do the right thing.
Anon
Yes, that was my entire summer. As well as explaining to other attorneys that no, the upper limit for a lethal fetal anomaly of 12 week was not a misprint. The providers seem to be figuring it out, or at least questions are fewer. What that means on the ground for women’s healthcare is the big question.
Anon
I am conflicted over abortion personally, but OK with a lot of it politically. My state had a reasonable (to me, I realize not to all) 20-week limit and is pretty purple. Now, they are raising the possibility of walking that back to 12. I feel that most people are OK in various degrees (while not “favorable” to it) and it seems that at some point, people need to beat the drum loudly on where the popular consensus actually is (vs pushing for 6 weeks vs up to 40 weeks) to get a toehold to firm up. Other than that, I think things will get wild and then awful and then I don’t know what is next.
Healthcare in Texas
I see that Governor DiSantis has signed the six week ban in Florida. So the “wild” part may be coming when centrists (relatively speaking) realize they can no longer get a basic procedure that people they know have had access to for years. I’m talking moms, wives, college students, people you know from church and kids’ soccer — normal, every day people.
here she goes
Then the really wild part is when the red states are going to start criminalizing adult women for driving to blue states to get the procedure where it’s legal. Idaho just passed the first version of this related to minors, but it is obvious that similar laws are coming for adult women.
Monday
This part really makes me think of the conditions for civil war, in the sense that states within the same country can have such different laws, with militancy behind them, that a basic degree of unity as a single nation is no longer present. The “Fugitive Slave Law,” requiring residents of free states to cooperate on returning enslaved people who had run away to their former owners, was a major factor in the attitude toward slavery in the North going from “eh, not our business” to “how dare they.” I can envision laws about women traveling for abortion having a similar effect: people in states where abortion is legal realizing they can be prosecuted for “aiding and abetting” or something.
I know someone is going to say this comment is insane, but academics who study civil conflict are all saying that the current US has a lot of danger signs for it right now.
Anon.
Monday, you’re spot on.
I was actually surprised that there was not more civil unrest during the pandemic – I think the situation regarding the food supply chain early on was very volatile (meat packing facilities in the Midwest with huge outbreaks, lockdowns in China affecting supplies etc).
PLB
Monday, I don’t think your comment and thinking is insane at all. It’s a terrifying time.
Seventh Sister
While I’ve wanted to do some national parks road trips for years, I don’t even want to go through Idaho with my teenage daughter. What if we get pulled over and they make her take a pregnancy test?
Anon
I don’t think you mean to come across like this, but there is a not very subtle message there that people who get abortions after 6 weeks are freaks. When we all know that it’s quite possible to be unaware of a pregnancy 6 weeks in.
Seventh Sister
I’m not much of an optimist, but I think the “wild part” is starting already since the six week ban stuff is kind of like the dog that caught the car. It’s one thing for antiabortion candidates to support a six week ban when it’s not in effect, it’s quite another when you’re a candidate in that world and there are dreadful, publicized situations that show the effects of a six week ban.
Also, for all of the handwringing about whether this or that is legal or illegal, I think you have a subset of women who are sort of f- around and find out types who wouldn’t actually mind being, say, the adult who helps the teenager get out of state for an abortion. Or the physician who ends the ectopic pregnancy where there is an unclear state law. My hat is off to people like that, I don’t know if I have it in me but I’m sure some people are out there.
PolyD
I’m curious about what people think an “abortion” at 40 weeks is. This would be a delivery, and in no state is it legal to kill a newborn. Or is this being conflated with the parents being allowed to decide to only provide palliative care for a seriously ill newborn, rather than putting the baby on a vent, inserting IVs and feeding tubes, etc.
Some abortions do occur quite late in term because problems might not be seen on a scan until later in the pregnancy, and then the woman has to find a provider who can do the abortion. Over the past weeks a poster here has described the problems with finding a doctor who can do a late term abortion even in blue/purple states, which might be a matter of skill as well as legality.
So, I just don’t get it when people say they are opposed to abortions at 40 weeks, because that’s not a thing. If some doctor IS killing newborns at birth, that’s a criminal problem, not an abortion law problem.
Anon
Totally agree. I don’t know anyone who is in favor of killing newborns, and I’m not aware of cases of that happening by doctors who perform legal abortions.
Third trimester abortions are incredibly, incredibly rare. Those are wanted pregnancies with which something has gone horrifically wrong. I’ve never seen even an anecdote otherwise.
Senior Attorney
+1
The amount of ignorance and misinformation on this topic out there is just staggering.
Seventh Sister
Yeah, third trimester terminations are for things like anencephaly or other terrible scenarios, not “oh I forgot to get an abortion for six months.”
Curious
Having watched a friend lose a wanted child after delivery at 35 weeks, due to birth defects incompatible with life that weren’t detected on the 20-week scan, I so fully agree with this.
Runcible Spoon
I believe in a few jurisdictions there is no upper limit to legal abortions (e.g., Washington, DC), so perhaps the discussions are using abortions at 40 weeks not as endorsements or promotions of imminent-birth abortions, but as a form of short-hand to cover those statutory schemes.
Anon
Of course that’s what they say they’re doing. But they could be using a term that doesn’t rely on an out-right lie. The reason that is the term preferred by certain people is precisely because it is misleading and turns focus away from the true issue (women in the third trimester carrying fetuses with VERY serious abnormalities that are usually incompatible with life) to something that is emotionally fraught (inducing labor in a woman who is 40 weeks pregnant with a normal fetus because she forgot to get an abortion earlier).
Runcible Spoon
Anon 1 1:00 pm — Agreed
Anon
I’m in favor of letting a pregnant person and their doctor make these decisions, regardless of how far along the pregnancy.
Anon
I thought 20 weeks seemed so late until I had kids. Some women only get a 20 week ultrasound, which is also used to check for birth defects. If you discover something that would warrant an abortion, it’s too late to abort and you’re screwed. They cannot do that scan earlier. If you’re going to allow abortion to a certain point it would make sense to at least account for that possibility.
Anon
A 20 week ban is really extreme. The rest of the world manages fine on banning abortion in the second trimester.
Anon
Yes. In FL and reeling over the six-week ban. I’m in health insurance.
Trish
I am reeling over the death penalty legislation.
theguvnah
If you are not already involved in the RJ lawyers network go to ifwhenhow dot org and join up!!
thank you for your work.
Anon
My middle-schooler is in a track team where they practice in their own sports clothes. Uniforms are here. She is a women’s tall small in ON and generally a size 2-4 in pants. They said that the uniforms (nylon bike shorts and a tank top) are supposed to be tight but how tight are track outfits supposed to be? They only have to wear uniforms for meets. These are tight enough that I think a thin maxi pad would be obvious. I may snap a pick and check with the other mom I know (who has done this before but has boys; it is our first year) bs having her wear it. She is usually in much looser clothes.
Anon
They should be fairly snug, both from a providing compression point of view and a no extra fabric point of view. Be thankful the coach didn’t order butt huggers for them. She can also pull looser shorts on over them while at the meets and not on the track.
Anon
I do see some people in what I call running panties. No thanks. I don’t really mind snug bike shorts, but nothing for exercise should require waxing and I wear along loose top, which to me makes all of the mental comfort difference.
Anon
+1 to nothing for exercise should require waxing.
Anon
Some of us are hairy and need to wax even for “regular” length shorts.
Anon
Yes – high school volleyball was a nightmare for me because of the uniforms. And the boys that came to the games just to gawk. Our coach finally banned the uniforms.
Anon
Competitive sports are different.
Anonymous
Middle school track teams don’t wear “buns.”
Bike shorts alone are ridiculous in middle school. What do the boys wear? I’d get the moms together and lobby to have them be allowed to wear solid color running shorts over the bike shorts.
Anon
OP here — it seems to be the same uniform for both, which I think would be worse for guys (but I only have girls). It’s like the jammers boys wear for swim team — when they aren’t in the water, kids are walking around with a tee or hoodie or towel on, so no one really sees them in the uniform. Not so in track, for either gender. It may make a lot of sense for high jumpers to wear tight clothes (but that is like 2 kids).
Flats Only
I don’t have kids or a real dog in this fight, but unless she’s competing at a national level the .00001 second savings an athlete might get from a tight outfit will not make any difference in the results. NYT just had an interesting article on women track and field athletes and their clothes. I love the idea that making performance-based excuses to force female athletes into overly revealing (and thus man-pleasing) outfits might be on the way out. And honestly, it’s just gross for an ordinary middle school track team. What are the boys wearing, and if it’s not skin tight why is no-one worried about their results?
Anon
+1 – I competed at the national level in the mile and have state records that I still hold, starting from when I was a high school junior. I wore a tank top and shorts all the way through high school, including in races where I accomplished the records that still stand today. I hate this trend, and would have been hugely uncomfortable in anything more revealing at that age (frankly, in college, I still didn’t love it, but I can’t imagine being in those outfits as a 13 year old…).
Anon
Sorry – to clarify, nothing was tight or form fitted – our uniforms were a loose tank and loose running shorts. I compete in local road races as an adult, and I still don’t wear the compression biker shorts that are so popular now. For 99.99999% of the population, there just isn’t any reason to justify wearing something that is ultra small or form fitted, especially if it makes the runner uncomfortable.
Anonymous
But nowhere does it say it makes the runner uncomfortable.
Anonymous
The runner is in middle school. If it makes the mom uncomfortable it’s unacceptable.
Anon
Hard disagree. Biker shorts prevent chafing. I’m lean but have enough weight in my thighs that chafing is a real concern.
anon
I read this article too and am glad waves are being made about the absurd uniforms female athletes have to wear. See also, volleyball, swimming, gymnastics.
Anonymous
They are supposed to be tight.
Anonymous
Don’t snap a picture and show it to another mom. Your post is all about you. Why? Has your daughter said she is uncomfortable?
Anon
OP: yes — she tried hers on and feels very exposed in it. I think that the solution here is just ordering a couple of sizes up (even a L wouldn’t slide off, it would just be slim fitting vs having to adjust for the front seam) and possibly to get some additional length in the top. No one is contemplating not wearing it or making a fuss.
emeralds
You can google something like “middle school girls track” to get a sense of what uniforms usually look like. Generally they’re close-fitting, and yes, a pad is going to show under bike shorts. Agreed that you should be glad the coach isn’t trying to put them in butt huggers.
Have you asked your daughter what she thinks about the uniforms? I’d do that before you decide whether you want to to push back on having tighter uniforms. And also, if you do push back, know this will remain a pain point as long as she’s involved in the sport. I’m not saying that’s the way it should be, but it’s the reality, especially if she continues running in high school and ends up running relays–at least in my state high school division, all four relay runners absolutely must wear the same uniform.
A personal anecdote from the other end of the spectrum: my high school coach was old school and hated the trend toward putting girls in tight uniforms. Great, I didn’t want to run in butt huggers. However…we ended up in glorified basketball jerseys that we had to tape so they wouldn’t slide off mid-race. And then our relays would get threatened with DQs if our tape didn’t match. Some of us had cross country uniforms with bike shorts and appropriately close-fitting singlets, so we’d wear those for individual events since they were SO much more comfortable (the head coach grumbling all the while), but not all the girls on the relays ran cross country so we’d be swapping uniforms mid-meet and, again, flirting with being DQed if someone forgot to put the giant shorts on instead of the bike shorts. It was a mess. They got new uniforms the year after I graduated.
Anonymous
Also why would she be running track in a maxi pad? That’s gonna cause chafing teach her to use tampons.
Anon
That may have just been a descriptor. Also, I wasn’t comfortable wearing a tampon in middle school. The daughter should get to decide what period products she is comfortable with.
anon
+1 to your last sentence. We occasionally get comments here that basically suggest that there’s something wrong with not being comfortable with tampons and I do not understand it at all. Girls and women get to decide what goes in their v*ginas.
Also, I ran with maxi pads in high school – tight shorts actually reduce chafing risk in that regard and it wouldn’t necessarily be visible depending on size/thickness of the pad.
Anon
Thank you for saying this! There is sometimes an assumption that when a teen is using pads it is because the mother does not want her using tampons. But I too had a daughter who did not want to use tampons (the idea freaked her out and when she tried it hurt so she refused to try again). I told her to let me know if she changed her mind or needed my help and then let her make her own decisions. She didn’t start using tampons until college.
Children should not be forced into revealing clothes that serve no valid purpose (for that matter neither should adult athletes). I am glad to hear that is being called out.
Anon
And some of us need BOTH a tampon and pads. Expecting a young girl to be comfortable enough to use menstrual cups etc.. or even tampons can vary a lot.
Anonymous
She should get to choose her own products, but dancers and gymnasts and figure skaters and swimmers all manage to figure it out so there should be a way to make bike shorts work too.
Anonymous
I imagine a lot of kids with heavy periods just drop out of these sports.
Anon
It is VERY strange to me that this argument seems to be that because middle school girls are forced to wear revealing clothing in a variety of sports, that they should be “taught” to insert something into their bodies whether they are comfortable with that or not?
Or maybe we could encourage a change in attire that meets the needs of the sports while not making middle-schoolers feel uncomfortable?
Anon
Anon @1:04 – this. How is this even a question?!
Alanna of Trebond
Honestly you can wear leggings most of the time figure skating and the tights are very thick. I am a former competitive figure skater and (TMI) I wore pads basically until I was married.
Anon.
I started using tampons only after I became sexually active as a teenager (around 17). It would not have occured to me to insert something there before.
Anon
I have an adult friend who never wears tampons. It’s a preference thing. There’s nothing inherently wrong with preferring a pad.
Anon
Really serendipitous timing, this article is on the NYT homepage this morning: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/08/sports/olympics/running-uniforms-evolution.html
Nigela
Hello Ladies, I need some help. If you were to get a new car, which would you choose? Looking for something priced midrange with great safety ratings and good storage. Not into minivans or oversized suvs. Post baby, I’m not sure who I am anymore and am blindsided by this unexpected decision.
Anonymous
Subaru outback or crosstrek. I have the outback but my BFF who doesn’t have kids likes the smaller size of the crosstrek.
Anonymous
I would not buy a Subaru. Since about 2011 the quality has really declined, as confirmed by my independent Subaru mechanic. Ours has had numerous issues including excessive oil consumption and transmission problems.
Anonymous
This has not been my experience at all. They are super popular in my small outdoorsy city with runners/ bikers/kayakers.
We go to a mechanic who always owns one and bought one for his mom as well.
Anonymous
I did some research on this when I was looking at mine; the excessive oil consumption issue was in models around 2011-2014 and has been fixed in newer models.
Anon
I love my Subaru Impreza, bought in 2020. They also hold value extremely well, and for someone in the upper Midwest they drive extremely well in snow.
Anon
+ to the Impreza
Anon
I was going to jump on here with Subaru Forrester, I got it unexpectedly after someone totaled my car and love it with my toddler. We’re only planning on 2 kids though.
Runcible Spoon
+1 on the Subaru Crosstrek — I decided on that model after owning a Subaru Outback which I felt was “too much car” for me. The Crosstrek has all the safety bells and whistles, and the all-wheel drive gets me up my sloped driveway in the snow. It fits into street parking spaces easily, too.
Shoe Help
Love my Outback and my friends love their Crosstrek and Forrester, respectively. #subie4eva
Cat
The Volvo XC90 is a popular one that’s not excessively large.
AIMS
My mom had similar requirements and got a Toyota RAV4, which she is very happy with.
Curious
We love our RAV4.
Adorable Spinach
Love my RAV4.
pugsnbourbon
I’m glad to see this about the RAV4. Both of our cars are pushing 20 and we’ve had our eye on a RAV4 as a replacement.
Anonymous
I just got a Skoda Octavia. It’s ok and plenty of size and storage. Dependable. Nobody will steal it. Recommend if you just want a decent car and don’t care about what other people think.
Anon
I’d get whatever Subaru model fits your criteria.
Hazel
Seconding Subaru — I love my Crosstrek. Fantastic safety ratings, good storage, very reliable, and it fits the intermediate zone between SUV and sedan — I don’t feel like I’m driving a tank, but I do feel a little safer + a little higher on the road, so I have good visibility even with towering trucks around me. Very smooth drive and that adaptable cruise control is a godsend. Never getting a car without it.
Runcible Spoon
God yes, the cruise control on the Subaru Crosstrek is a lifesaver on long road trips!
octagon
We love our Subaru Forester. It’s very comfortable both in-town and on long trips. Slightly less storage than the outback but it was fine for our needs. The Kia Telluride is also popular with other families judging by the car line at school.
Flats Only
Mazda CX-5 (larger) or Mazda CX-30 (smaller). Both are SUV-shaped but not huge, with good storage, and Mazdas are comfortable and run forever.
Anon
Mazdas are extremely underrated. You get a lot of car for your dollar, the longevity is impressive, and the repair costs are reasonable.
Anononon
I recently got a Subaru Crosstrek when I was shopping with a similar set of criteria and like it much more than I expected to. I was coming from a smaller car so I was worried it would feel like a boat, but it has good storage without being overly huge. I also live in a heavily LGBTQ+ neighborhood and true to stereotype every other car is a Subaru, so I figured the will of the masses couldn’t be wrong.
Anon
Any of the Prius models are good choices. They’re very roomy.
Anonymous
+1 for Prius, although some reviews say the newest model is a bit less roomy than the previous one.
Anon.
Another plug for a Prius. I transported an 8 foot garden umbrella (the ones with a cantilever) once with my Prius, and the Home Depot guy was extremely impressed when he saw it would fit.
Anon
Not OP but I would never have a Prius unless u could garage it (which I can’t in my urban environment) given the catalytic converter theft problem.
Anonymous
You can pay a tiny bit extra for a catalytic converter shield on the new Prius!
Anon
We’ve been happy with our Mazda CX5. It’s almost 10 years old and we still haven’t had to fix a single thing.
Anon8
+1 I bought my CX-5 in 2021 based on reliability ratings and love it so far.
Anonymous
I got a Subaru Forester a couple of years ago after a lifetime of Toyotas (well, 1 Toyota. Late 90s 4Runner I had for 20+ years, because those things do not die) and have been very happy with it. I thought I wanted another Toyota, but I wanted something basically the same size but more fuel efficient and the Rav4s felt cramped in the front seat to me and the Highlander was way too big.
New Here
I love my Honda Passport. Just the right size for my one carseat in the backseat. Plenty of cargo room.
Anon
The new Passport looks amazing. I would love it if the Odyssey (current vehicle) came with AWD (need it in area we live in now — unpaved mountain roads are common here), but that looks like it’s never going to happen. How roomy is the second row? We have Tall Teens who feel strongly that the second row of the Odyssey is like flying business class and likely won’t like less room. We need the third row for passengers but generally only around town, so while we need it also, comfort there isn’t the same level of priority as is for the middle row.
New Here
My husband is around 6’1, and he’s comfortable in the backseat with the carseat back there (of course, he’s sitting behind me and I’m 5’2). When my parents are visiting, my mom and I fit comfortably in the back seat with the carseat for getting around town. Way more spacious than our CRV we had before this.
I considered a Pilot but didn’t really see the need for a third row (we’re only having 1 child), especially one that is that cramped. I wanted more cargo room.
anon
My husband got the new Passport after his 2007 Ridgeline finally bit the dust. We don’t have kids, but there is plenty of room in the back. After having a truck, it’s nice having the covered cargo area in the back. We were planning on buying used, but there wasn’t much inventory and the prices were almost as much as a new car.
Anon
We have a Honda CRV. Works for two kids, plenty of storage, good safety features, manageable size (e.g., can still open doors in a standard size parking lot space.) We test drove subarus and preferred the CRV.
Anon
A hybrid or plug-in RAV4 (hybrid or Prime) or hybrid Highlander. I haven’t had great experiences with Subaru, otherwise I’d consider an Ascent but wouldn’t get a solely gas powered vehicle.
Anon
I really like my 2021 Nissan Rogue. Best feature that I wouldn’t have thought would be anything special: The rear doors open at 90 degrees, so much easier to get kids/car seats in and out.
Emma
DH has a rogue and we’re happy with it too. Not sure what your climate is like but we’re in Canada and it does well in the snow.
Anon
+1 to its capability in the snow.
anon
Are you planning on having another baby? I ask because I was fine with my HRV but now am expecting twins and need to buy a car that can fit 3 car seats. Something to keep in mind if you plan to expand your family.
here she goes
I really like my Kia Sorento that I got 6 months ago. I’ve had cars in the past, most recently a Chevy Malibu, but needed something that would handle better in snow and ice. My MIL has had both the Subaru Outback and Forester and prefers the Forester.
Anonie
+1, we loved our Kia Sorento – IMO this is a great SUV option.
here she goes
It’s a really nice size too. I thought I wanted the Telluride but it was impossible to get so then I got the Sorento, which was described as a mini-Telluride. I’m definitely glad I ended up with the Sorento; it’s the perfect size. Fits a lot but doesn’t feel ginormous.
Anonie
Based on your criteria, I’d get a top of the line Toyota Camry. They are super reliable, comfortable to drive, tech is good, last forever. If it were just me buying a car based on my own criteria: vintage convertible Beetle :)
JD
Another vote for a Camry! I like my cars reliable and we can fit two carseats in the back. The only thing is that they are long and wide if you’re in a tight urban area.
Also, get a red one! Live a little if you don’t know who you are anymore. I got the ubiquitous dark gray in a Thanksgiving sale, but I love all the red and bright blue cars on the road these days.
Anonymous
I would get a Honda CR-V or Accord or a Toyota Rav-4 or Camry. (Depending on if you want the cargo room of a small SUV or if you want a sedan.)
DeepSouth
My Acura MDX really drives like a car, but has great interior room. The seats are comfortable and the back door opening is wide enough to easily manage a carseat — I feel like my sister’s Subaru doesn’t have the same wide door opening into the back seat, if that’s helpful to you.
PLB
+1 to the MDX
Anon
I would buy a used Volvo. My priority with a car is safety.
Anon
I am more than slightly eye-rolly over the Cadillac brand, I think mainly because to my taste it’s gaudy and I think it’s a grandma brand. However… as a result of divorce and due to Reasons I ended up with the 2019 Cadillac XT5 that my ex had picked out. It’s comfortable, reliable, safe, gets adequate gas mileage, and neither particularly large nor particularly small. The cargo area is generously sized – very nearly comparable to the old Nissan Xterra. The rear seats fold completely flat and they do so easily. Five adults fit in it comfortably. It’s gaudy but I can wholeheartedly recommend.
Anon
Volvo xc70 wagon. I adore mine. The successor to this model if you’re shopping new is the v90 or the v90 cross country.
Anon
They are the best cars out there.
Ginger
We have a 10 y/o Toyota AWD Siena minivan. Our kids are all in their 20’s now and on their own, but DH and I get so much use out of that minivan that we’re thinking of getting a used one when this one bites the dust. I know, it’s crazy. It’s great in snow, we take it skiing and just toss our skis in the back. Our bikes also fit right inside (fold down the two rows of seats) and there’s plenty of room for a cooler, a dog, etc. And everyone wants to ride in the party van when we go brewery hopping.
Anon
Mazda cx5! I love mine.
Anon
Look at Toyotas- Camry, or any of their crossover SUVs if you want something smaller but higher of the ground (for car seat ease).
I have a contingency of peers that after baby 1 or 2 and after pricing out Kias and Hyundais, ended up buying the volvo, Toyota or Honda they originally had their eye on because the pricing gap is much smaller than it used to be.
Anonymous
Does anyone else have this problem where you seem to be the only person in the entire house who knows how to put things away? Specifically my husband. Even things he takes out will sit there for 3 weeks if I don’t ask him where he got them and put them away. He helps out – does most dishes and laundry – but the piles everywhere are driving me mad.
Anne-on
Yup. My husband and son are both like this. The only workable solution I’ve found is two fold – identifying the sources/locations of clutter/piles. For me is was the mudroom/entryway with bags/shoes/backpacks. We eventually redid the space but making it as easy as possible was key – hooks for bags/backpacks, open cubbies for shoes. In the kitchen I bought open bins for my husband’s ‘stuff’ – basically a big decorative bowl where his keys/sunglasses/chapstick/receipts/etc. go. If he leaves them on the counter I gather them up and dump them in his bowl – he can sort through them there if he needs anything. We also have a 5-10 minute evening clean up after dinner where everyone puts stuff away – you can set a timer, play a song (we sang the clean up song when my son was small), whatever works. Having easily identified ‘homes’ for things, and then making it quick but routine part of our day helps.
I also simply let some things go – my husband’s nightstand/dresser currently have 13 books, multiple chargers, assorted watches/cufflinks/shoe horns/tennis doo dads. It’s two small spaces and the clutter doesn’t impact me or our ‘public spaces’ – ditto with his home office which has piles of paper and notebooks on every flat surface. He does a clean out periodically but beyond that I only make him tidy if we’re using it as a guest room (which is infrequent).
Anonymous
Too funny! My husband also has a big bowl near the door and a really cluttered dresser. I hurl stuff into the bowl, and ignore the dresser.
Anne-on
I swear my decorating style now revolves around halfway decent looking places to stash things so the house doesn’t devolve into chaos. Cubbies for dog leashes/towels/poop bags, woven baskets for blankets, felt nook for cat toys, metal basket for dog toys, back of the closet door shelving system, bookshelves in every room (inlcuding the kitchen), decorative trays for remotes, bowls for keys and chargers, lidded enamel boxes (this is to keep the cats from playing fetch with our junk drawer contents after I found them INSIDE the open drawer), etc.
Seafarer
I call this accreting, like the way coral reefs accrete small parts of calcium daily until they are large reefs. The only solution I have found in over a decade is dedicated time to go through a specific pile. Sometimes together, sometimes assigned time for him to do it alone. I do it without rancor or any indication of annoyance (I hope) because he is the child of a survivor and many of them come by this behavior honestly.
Anonymous
Lol, growing up my dad called this the Mississippi river delta
Anon
My bf does little random things that drive me nuts and will not put anything away. If he sweeps the flow he has left the dirt pile on the ground and doesn’t put the broom away. If he sprays down the kitchen counter he forgets to put the spray bottle away. It is infuriating! He only really does half the job. No idea how to handle this.
Anon
Honestly, I dated a couple of men like this, and I just… didn’t put up with it. I’d talk to them about it calmly one or twice and if they still acted like they didn’t know how to do a basic household task, then I knew they weren’t for me.
I’m not saying anyone needs to divorce their husband over this type of issue (if they don’t want to), but dating is the interview stage, and for me, this was just non-negotiable criteria.
Cb
Oh I’m this person. Both my husband in home city and roommate in work city pull me up on it.
I just assume I have annoying habits, and my husband has annoying habits (sudden noises – bursts of song, exclamations, it’s like living with a freaking jack-in-the-box), but ultimately we love each other and are a great team.
Senior Attorney
This is “number three” territory, I fear. As in, “There are three types of undesirable behavior in a partner, once you have brought said behavior to their attention: (1) those you accept it as the price of admission to the relationship, (2) dealbreakers, or (3) those that they will change once you magically find the perfect combindation of words to explain just how deeply you need them to change, perhaps during the 1,000th or 1,000,000th conversation on the subject.”
Spoiler alert: There is no Number Three.
Cat
ha, mine will do this “but I need that for the project we’ll do this weekend” ok dear, it’s Monday, the hammer can go back in the toolbox so I don’t have to look at it for the next 6 days.
Cornellian
That is my husband’s one, too. Better keep the drill on the counter, because when the new hardware arrives next Thursday we’ll need to install it. Our toolbox is in a closet in the kitchen 3 feet from the counter!
That said, I am infamous for doing 90% of a task and wandering off, so I deal with his idiosyncracies as well.
Anon.
Oh my god, so much this in our house. I have not understood whether this is just laziness or something else.
Anon
It’s amazing how some people just don’t seem to see the mess. It’s so the opposite of how I function that I can’t even fathom it.
Anonymous
It’s pretty easy! You just don’t care. I do not care that there are mugs all over my house. Why would I put my sunglasses away when I just need to wear them again. Wild that clean people convince themselves they are morally correct instead of just annoyingly uptight.
Anon
I am not a clean freak but I don’t think clean freaks are annoyingly uptight. They just have different preferences.
Anon
I’m not uptight and it’s not like I spend all my time worrying about being tidy! But like, my sunglasses go in my purse so that’s where I put them. When I finish a mug it goes in the sink. It’s just automatic, I don’t even think about it.
Anonymous
I have ADHD. when I finish a mug, its put down on my desk because thats where I am and I’m finishing something. I’ll mentally make a note to get up and take it to the kitchen and refill my water bottle at the same time. I’ll probably try and drink from the empty mug a few times, then move it further away to help remind me. 15 minutes later, I vaguely recall I needed to get up and do something. I’ll get up and refill my water bottle. When I sit back down, I’ll remember it was the mug I meant to do. But an email came in, so I need to deal with that. 4 hours later, the mug has become part of the scenery, so I won’t notice it again that day unless I remember to look for it.
This is why every evening I have an alarm in my phone to tidy my office, which mainly means collecting dirty dishes.
KS IT Chick
Not a clean freak by any stretch of imagination, but I do like being able to find my kitchen knives, my letter opener, my phone charger, etc, where I expect them to be. Not whatever random location they were dropped in when they were used and ceased being immediately in the other person’s mind.
DH got this from his father. It made cleaning out his house after his death a bit of a hassle. He was a master woodworker who had pretty much never put tools away. Trying to make sure we didn’t accidentally put expensive tools in the trash while cleaning was a challenge.
Anon
If you have mugs everywhere you can’t really dust surfaces so you’re objectively living in a dirty environment. That’s why.
I am not a neat freak but at least I know when my environment needs cleaning!
Anonymous
Hahahahahahahahahhahaha
Anon
Environment needs dusting once or twice a week. All the mugs can go back on Saturday.
Anon
people dust once or twice a week?
anon
I don’t think I’m uptight for wanting a clean house. It’s just my personal preference and I don’t care what other people do. I like having neat, clutter free surfaces. It just make me feel more calm and relaxed. Thankfully my husband is pretty neat too and doesn’t leave stuff lying around.
Anon
Yeah, the mental aspect of not having clutter or dirt is huge for me, too. We all get to decide what we’re comfortable with!
PolyD
I am not a clean freak either, but if I have to clean up the kitchen before I can use the kitchen, that is no bueno. And by “clean up” I mean create space on the counters so I can actually put down a cutting board, or emptying the sink so I can fill a pot, not mopping the floor or cleaning the oven.
And if we’re late for a thing because messy person can’t find their wallet-keys-phone, well, that’s not cool either (I’m talking habitually, not a once in a while thing).
Anon
Here’s a different perspective: I like frequently used items where I can see them instead of fussing with drawers and cabinets every time I use it. It would drive me nuts if my keys are hidden in a drawer/I have to mess with drawers when I walk in the door carrying grocery bags or I have to dig around a bathroom drawer for all my makeup and brushes. My SO permanently keeps his toothpaste, cleanser, etc. in a toiletry bag inside a bathroom drawer so his countertop is immaculate but I would lose my mind doing that.
The solution is corralling items into a practical location that requires no effort to use. So I have a shoe bin near the front door, a basket for keys and sunglasses in the entryway, and open-top lucite makeup organizers on my bathroom counter. Grab, use, and toss into the container when done. If you add extra steps or make your family go to a second location whenever they want to use a basic item then of course they’ll resist.
anon
This is me! My daily and regular use items must be easily accessible. Or else you get frustration and drawers and cabinets left open in my wake lol
Anon
I had an ex who tried to tell me “men don’t see messes” and I ended up dumping him because he was such a man baby (in many additional ways). My guy, your eyesight is just fine. Learn how to care about picking up after yourself.
Anon
I may make a cross-stitch sampler of “The Floor is Not a CLOSET”
anon a mouse
We call my husband’s side of the bed the Floor-drobe.
Anon
I bought DH a fancy clothing rang hanger thing for his birthday a while back. Clothes now pile up underneath it and the actual hangers remain unused but at least the mess is one place. It gives him something to aim at when he throws his ‘worn but not dirty enough to wash’ clothes on the floor.
Anon.
Lol!!!
Cb
I’m the half-finished project person in my relationship after getting bored and wandering off. But I’m also the only one capable of remembering the schedule. I’ve implemented le pause with my husband and just pretend not to hear requests for information we’ve already discussed – sometimes he remembers, sometimes he looks it up on his phone.
Please note: my husband is a fully capable adult who does way more parenting than me, but this is his annoying thing (the way messy cooking and half-finished projects are mine).
Deedee
Me too! I keep a clean house and do probably more than 50% of the house hold tasks. However, I also frequently get done 90% of a task and not the 10% that is putting away the bleach or finding a home for the unmatched but clean socks. I just have a bad habit of losing steam at the end of a chore. I would eventually get to it, but mercifully my husband is able to appreciate the 90% and kindly remind me to please complete the 10% if I don’t get to it in a reasonable amount of time. (Sometimes I see that he just kindly handles the remaining bits without even nudging me!)
Anon
That’s weaponized incompetence. Of course they know how to put things away and where they go.
Anon
Or they just have a different standard? Come on. Not everything is malintentioned and if you think that, the relationship probably has other issues.
Anon
I think the clue was in OP’s phrasing “he helps out,” which implies the responsibility for all household tasks is hers and he has kindly agreed to help.
Anon
Doesn’t read that way to me at all. If he’s doing the dishes and laundry that’s hardly all the tasks are hers.
Anon
It doesn’t matter if it’s close to 50/50. If he sees what he does as “helping out” then he sees what he does as a favor and not inherently his responsibility.
Anon
That’s OP’s phrasing?
Anonymous
Or they don’t care. Just because one person wants everything out away at all times doesn’t mean they are correct.
Anon
This. I’m a huge neat freak and generally want things put away, but even I want certain things left out because I regularly use them and it’s annoying to constantly have to pull them out again. It’s easy to see how people have different preferences about this, so you just need to work out a reasonable system that works for everyone in a household. If you really can’t stand it, don’t marry someone with a different preference- this isn’t an issue with in our house because we’ve each given ourselves a few specific places to leave things and keep the rest of the house clean.
anon
I am you as far as wanting things I use to be in view. But I think we’re all talking about (at least) two different things here.
Yes, I want those often-used items where I can see them (daily skin care, seasonings) but things that are unwrapped or used once? Opened mail, the plastic strip off a yogurt container? Tube of Super Glue? Opened cabinets? THOSE are the things that “other” household members just don’t seem to see and end up staying on the counter for days. I even got soft-close cabinets when I remodeled the kitchen and the cabinets STILL stay open. GRR.
Anon
In my marriage it comes down to actual dirt and I do not think I’m an uptight witch for not wanting every single surface in the kitchen to be constantly covered in grease and crumbs. And it drives me crazy because my husband is a perfectly capable adult, so this is the result of him not caring, even if he claims he doesn’t know that cooking creates a mess.
Senior Attorney
My husband and I have similar levels of tolerance for clutter, which is a blessing. However he literally does not see the crumbs and grease after he cooks. (We always say the best thing about our kitchen counter is that it doesn’t show the dirt, and the worst thing about our kitchen counter is that it doesn’t show the dirt.) But… HE COOKS! So I am happy to take on crumb-and-grease duty as a price of admission in our marriage.
Anonymous
Is it weaponized incompetence if I let clothes pile up in my bedroom for a while and then eventually I’m the one who picks them up and sorts? Or is it only if its a man doing it?
Anon
If you tell your husband you just don’t know how to put clothes away or that your vision is suddenly impaired just for this, then yes.
Anon
Won’t somebody think of the men??
Anonymous
Sure, if I’m weaponizing it then its weaponized. But sometimes its just incompetence or some other reason. But if a man is not putting things away, its not automatically anything more sinister.
If all we know is piles of things accumulate, it is helpful to approach that from a mindset that doesn’t assume there are any weapons involved.
Anonymous
So, maybe food for thought. I used to be your husband. I never put things away. And it was because our whole house was organized around my very neat husband. Everything was stored where he used it, where it made sense to him to store it, etc. Since he was the “organized one” we both let him decide how to organize our house.
For example, in the kitchen, the cutting boards/cooking utensils were stored on a shelf slightly too high for me to reach so I needed a footstool. Whenever I cooked, I would often leave the cleaned utensils out because I didn’t feel like going to get a footstool. Also, the footstool was not stored in the kitchen were I needed it to access storage but in the basement. We moved the utensils to a lower shelf and put some stuff only my husband uses on the higher shelf and I never left them out again.
Basically our entire home had these issues and once we started storing things where it made sense/was logical for me, I stopped leaving them out.
Anonymous
I confess I am this person in the relationship. Clutter doesn’t bother me. Drives my husband crazy. However, my husband doesn’t seem to see dust balls and dirt, and that drives me crazy. We really need to hire a maid…
anon
We hired house keepers to come once a week. Best decision for our marriage.
Anon
Even having a cleaner come just once a month, is life changing…
Trish
My husband is neater than I am. I have always been a clutterbug and can strew my stuff all over a hotel room in less than five minutes. I want my things OUT and all my makeup is on the counter and all my files are on my desk. I can run around and make it neat and tidy under pressure but for the most part, picking up is torture to me. I am fine with deep cleaning though.
Curious
Hi, we are twins. I also just realized that my other twin is Vicky Austin, and I haven’t seen her in a bit, so I think baby likely came!
Anonymous
My husband is like that too- leaves dishes, food containers, wrappers, etc on the counter all the time. HIs personal space areas (closet, home office, home workshop with tools, etc) are all cluttered messes. His father had serious hoarding issues and I wonder if part of my husband’s issue is genetic…. My way of dealing with all this is a rule: If the mess is in a place that bothers me, I’ll clean it up. If it’s his mess and it is not in common space or my personal space then he owns it. I don’t help him find personal things (like his phone) when he can’t find them amidst the clutter. We’ve been married over 30 years.
Curious
I’m our clutter person, and while it’s partly because my husband has an office to throw things, and partly because we are still kind of figuring out how to use our space, it’s also just me. But I try to at least partially tidy daily, because it drives my spouse crazy, and I do know where things go. I feel like that’s the minimum bar!
Anonymous
i’m your husband in this case! honestly, i just grew up in a house like this and clutter does not bother me. however, because i love my husband very much and i know it bothers him a lot, i make a big effort to put things away (e.g. every night i do a 5 min sweep and put as much away as i can). i am not successful 100% of the time but i know he knows im making a huge effort and i think that makes him less annoyed about it as well, and he’s super positive whenever i put things away. i like having drop zones for things to contain the clutter, and periodically i go through and sort things out (like once a month) and re-set everything. i also really liked having a “home” for every item because growing up i never knew where anything was.
Anon
Has anyone bought a stick-shift vehicle new recently that is really fun to drive? It is hard to find any car on a lot, so I need to hunt via carfinder etc. to find anything actually here in my city. I’ve had stick VWs (loved!) and a BF had a stick Honda (did not like, but my current ride is an automatic Honda). I want to explore what is out there currently (teen about to drive will learn on my car and I want something fun for me now vs the aging family truckster). Car / small SUV is OK; not into pickups.
Flats (and Mazdas) Only
Buy a Mazda Miata lightly used. They are the ultimate “fun to drive”, and the stick shift is the best in the industry. And bomb proof. I learned to drive stick in my Miata 25 years ago, still have it, and it still has the original clutch. And I don’t baby it with obsessive maintenance. Assuming it won’t be your only car in winter weather (rain, cold are OK, but you will suffer if there’s ice or snow) or for hauling household items, it’s the way to go.
Anon
Remind me — is it just a 2-seater or can you put a third person uncomfortably in the back? I feel like I have been in the backseat of one a long time ago but that may not have been a legal seat.
Flats (and Mazdas) Only
2 seats only. No back seat of any kind. Sort of a shelf behind the seat if the top is up. If the top is down it’s just the top behind the seats.
Anon
I too am looking for a new stick-shift car. I am currently looking at a Mini Cooper and a Subaru WRX. I previously had a Mini Cooper Convt that was a stick and was the most fun car I have ever owned. You do have to order one to get a stick though. My husband is pushing me toward a WRX to get all wheel drive. I have heard it is fun and am off to test drive one his weekend (note, dealerships have many in stick that are stick shift). Good luck in your search and post if you find something fun, so I know to expand my search.
Anon
I love my mini Cooper. Will never drive anything else!
Runcible Spoon
+1 on WRX — I test drove one when I was shopping for a new car and it was great fun! I ultimately went with a Subaru Crosstrek for a bunch of reasons; it is the first automatic transmission car I have ever owned. I miss some stick-shift aspects, but the cruise control for road trips trumps all.
Anon
+1 on WRX — I test drove one when I was shopping for a new car and it was great fun! I ultimately went with a Subaru Crosstrek for a bunch of reasons; it is the first automatic transmission car I have ever owned. I miss some stick-shift aspects, but the cruise control for road trips trumps all.
Anon
I got over my love of driving stick when my Bay Area commute regularly had me in stop and go traffic on some pretty steep hills.
here she goes
ooh this made me miss my OG car that I drove high school and college – a 1999 Toyota Camry with stick shift. I learned to drive on it and totally miss driving a stick.
Anon
I drive a 99 Toyota Camry! It’s automatic though. It runs great and has been so reliable, we’ve barely put any money into it except routine maintenance. I’m probably getting rid of it soon because my parents are getting a new car and giving us their ‘15 Corolla but I will be so sad to part with it.
here she goes
Such a good car! I ended up getting a company car and my BIL needed a car, so he got the ’99 Camry. Then there was a huge 30 car pile up on the interstate one day (icy road conditions where they all just slide into each other) and the car was totaled. I hadn’t owned it for quite a while but was still sad about it.
Cornellian
Hmm, I’m not sure what “fun” is here. Powerful? I have a stick shift Honda fit that I love driving around the city (and wouldn’t really love driving if I had a long highway commute, highway noise is intense and it’s not a big luxurious car). But it carries stuff really well, is zippy, has a tight turning radius, and the clutch is super responsive/tight? I’m not sure what the word is, but it’s “sporty”, somehow. My stick Honda fit is the six-speed “sport” level, and it drives VERY differently than my husband’s stick Honda civic did, so it may not be that Honda sticks aren’t your thing. It also is a very easy car to teach people stick on because it is both forgiving (impossible to stall) but also very responsive (it will rev or stutter pretty quickly and give you feedback that you’re doing something wrong).
our other car is a stick VW jetta sportwagen (that is actually a passat frame, we recently learned when we had to change its oil filter and the jetta one didnt’ fit). It’s powerful and fun when you’re going from 15 to 50 but a bitch to drive around time and super temperamental in first and second gear, plus it’s like parking a bus.
Subaru still makes new sticks, but all I’ve driven is 20 year old ones so I’m not help there.
Anon
OP here — thanks for this. BF had the Honda CRV, which was also so low that I couldn’t get out of it easily in a skirt. Responsive + impossible to stall may be the unicorn of stick shifts (I grew up learning stick somewhere hilly and hitting a red traffic light on a hilly street was the stuff of nightmares until I mastered it). Now I can parallel park my parents’ stick car on a hilly street, which I consider to be varsity level.
anon
I know nothing, but my husband very much enjoys his Ford Fiesta ST- it’s “sporty” and a four door.
Anon
Not recent, but I had a 2012 Mazda 3 hatchback stick that was super fun!
Anon
I still get the headlines from the student newspaper at my alma mater (one of the larger Ivies with a robust hospital system) and today one said that they are doing away with the Covid vaccine mandate for students, faculty and staff, but it’s still required for health system employees. Universities require a myriad of other vaccines for students, so i don’t really get the point of this
Anon
Political pressure. Mandates are unpopular even among the left now, except in healthcare settings.
Anon
I guess I see other vaccines as non-events, but the COVID one and booster sent me to bed, achey and really tired and I felt like I lost a weekend. So it was a bit disruptive. It would be to me like making the >50s to get shingles vaccine (same experience).
ALTHOUGH; get the singles vaccine. Dianne Feinstein had shingles which is why she has taken 2 months off (WTF — I have not had 2 months off of work even when I had a baby) recovering from that. It is awful but shingles is worse.
Anonymous
I get that with almost all shots. I don’t see why covid is overall more disruptive. How do you feel about flu shots?
Anon
You can get shingles despite getting the vaccine. I wouldn’t assume she’s unvaccinated.
Anon
College aged people are more likely to experience disruptive side effects from the vaccine and less likely to require medical attention if they catch Covid. So I understand why they don’t think it should be mandatory. It’s a personal decision about whether you prefer guaranteed misery for 36-48 hours in hopes that when you inevitably get sick with Covid it’s milder. Honestly I’m at the point where I don’t think I’ll continue boosters and I’m far from an anti vaxxer.
Anon
Not everyone gets severe reactions to the Covid vaccines. My second shot was the worst and it wasn’t that bad…one night of feeling crummy and I just went to bed early and woke up feeling fine. I had no reaction to shots #3-5. A lot of my friends had similar experiences.
Anon
+1 especially after the boosters, side effects from the shots are much less for the vast majority of people.
I work in health care, and we have always been so frustrated that people skip flu shots, pneumonia shots and now COVID shots because of the brief (if any) inconvenience.
Anon
Same. I used to get the boosters on time, then I got COVID, then I treated that as my booster and just never went back.
Anon
1) They need to downplay the continued risks of COVID for vaccinated and unvaccinated alike to encourage in-person work and attendance.
2) The other vaccines aren’t nearly as politicized (or the controversy died down ages ago). (Though students do get out of the other requirements all the time!)
3) The argument for requiring vaccines in terms of health outcomes and in terms of not overburdening the healthcare system remains strong, but it’s pretty obvious that the vaccines haven’t achieved an immunity wall that protects the community broadly from high levels of transmission. I think if we had a vaccine that did (or if we come up with one as part of Project Next Gen), the argument for requiring it would be stronger.
Anonymous
Yeah this is very much the trend. The pandemic is over, vaccines didn’t stop transmission, and everyone who wants to be vaccinated has been, many times over. It’s hard to continue to justify.
anon
Because they’re regaining common sense.
Anon
Do they require flu shots? In my mind COVID shots are on par with flu shots…they only somewhat match the current strains and they wear off after a few months. The main benefit seems to be to the individual these days as vaxxed people can definitely catch and spread it (frequently!)
anon
Yeah, none of my schools required flu shots, and my kids’ school doesn’t.
Anon
Yeah I don’t think most schools require flu shots. The required vaccines like MMR and polio are kind of different because they’re nearly 100% effective.
Anon
My kids went to public schools and they required the meningitis vaccine (can’t remember the name) because it spreads like wildfire in dorms. That’s a strong case for also requiring a COVID vaccine.
Anon
Meningitis usually kills you. As a young person, Covid does not
Anonymous
Nope most schools do not.
Anon
Only hospitals require flu shots where I live, but IMO the COVID shots/boosters knocked me out for 24-48 hours and the flu shot just makes my arm sore for less than a day.
anon
When the benefit of the vaccine is primarily reducing severity for the infected individual, the basis for a mandate is much weaker.
Monday
Covid remains the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, and killed 4 times as many people as the flu over the last flu season. Transmission is still an issue, especially for anyone with pre-existing risk factors, which is about 25% of the population. I, too, very much want this to be over! But coverage on Covid is really embracing that view at the expense of people less fortunate, and treating their lives and health as less worthy of consideration.
https://niemanreports.org/articles/three-years-later-covid-19-is-still-a-health-threat-journalism-needs-to-reflect-that/?src=longreads
Anonymous
But vaccination doesn’t stop transmission
Monday
Well not in itself, but if it lowers/shortens/reduces the severity of cases then there are fewer transmission opportunities.
Anon
It lowers the death rate impressively. Saying it doesn’t stop transmission is just being obtuse.
Anon
This is all true… but masks if they’re designed to filter aerosols are more effective at curbing transmission. I would much rather spend time with masked people than vaccinated people if my goal is not to be infected by anyone.
Anon
Agreed. I’m very Covid cautious but at this point an N95 mask (even if it’s on me only) does more good re: stopping transmission than the vaccine.
Anon
Masks would also be a more useful mandate for healthcare workers if they wanted to prevent transmission to patients.
NYNY
Honestly, I think it’s just impossible to enforce now that the public health emergency is ending. Healthcare settings can enforce it more easily, because there’s a precedent for additional vaccine requirements and a system in place to vet exemption requests.
Anon 2.0
Honestly, people are just coming to their senses, finally. I am vaxxed and one time boosted and if I could turn back time, I would not get vaccinated at all. Hindsight is 20/20 and I no longer feel I made the best decision regarding my choice to get vaccinated. Its past time mandates go away.
Anon
Interesting, why not? I was never in favor of mandates and the hysterics around Covid make me crazy but what’s the harm in getting the vaccine?
Anon 2.0
I no longer feel that the information provided to the public was as accurate as claimed and I do not believe the companies were as being as transparent as first claimed either. I have concerns in hindsight that the risk of the quickly developed vaccine did not outweigh the risk of Covid. I say this as someone who was not likely to get seriously ill from covid, so my line of thinking may be different if I was a high risk. I’ve since had Covid twice and it was nothing more than a mild cold for me both times. And FWIW, I am not an anti-vaxxer by any means as I take most recommended vaccinations. I just cannot shake a nagging feeling that the vaccine wasn’t as safe for me as I’d been led to believe.
Anon
You don’t make the connection that COVID was only a mild cold for you because you were vaccinated?
Anon
I am vaccinated and got both boosters (so four shots total) but unless the virus really changes and a major mutation comes out that is seriously dangerous, and they develop a vaccine for that mutation, I’m done getting Covid shots. I don’t regret getting vaccinated; quite the opposite. But I got very sick (down for a day and a half) after the last three shots and I felt worse after the bivalent booster than I did when I actually got Covid. It’s disruptive and I am very much feeling like further vaccination is unnecessary, for me. I am not high-risk and between four shots and getting Covid, I feel I’m protected. No more shots for me.
Anon
It’s political. Congregate living situations as in dorms are the absolute worst COVID spreading places there are.
Anon
A while ago I posted about toxic Former Boss who was starting to actually experience consequences. While I do not generally take joy in others’ suffering, this case really feels like justice.
Updates for anyone who would enjoy this: Toxic Boss is now refusing to speak to anyone but their Deputy. Like, staff got an email that they’re not allowed to contact toxic boss directly.
Additionally, the very professional office manager/exec assistant/person who is actually in charge is leaving and point blank said it was because of TB’s absurd behavior. And brought RECEIPTS.
I’m just over here with popcorn.
Cornellian
Love that for you.
anonshmanon
totally
Anonymous
Fellow runners/people who work out outside: Suggestions for sunscreen that will either not run off with my sweat or not burn my eyes when it does?
Anonymous
Neutrogena sport and a hat works for me
Anon
+1 to hat plus running in long sleeves
Cat
The kind that you rub on as a stick (like deodorant) usually does well for me.
Anon
Wear a hat and don’t put sunscreen above your eyes. You will sweat and it will run if you’re out there long enough.
Anon
I use my kids’ Think Baby, but I think all the Think sunscreens are exactly the same despite different names.
Anon
Honestly a hat or cap that completely covers my forehead in shade, then sunscreen from bridge of nose down.
Anon
+1 also working out in the mornings or evenings when sun is a lot less intense, then I usually don’t even bother with sunscreen.
Anonymous
Banana Boat stays put for me.
Runcible Spoon
Coppertone Sport has been my go-to.
Wardrobe help
I work at a small firm where the dress code is somewhere between business casual and formal and I am bored of all my work and casual clothing (that I have been wearing for the last 7-10 years). Vicarious shopping help needed so that getting dressed in the morning doesn’t suck and I don’t waste all my time on Pinterest wondering how to look put together. I am petite and look best in black and jewel tones.
Anon
I hear you. I try to buy a few new pieces each season. Lately I’ve had success at Talbots.
Cornellian
I think 3 is spot on. There are definitely still vaccines in development that might protect the broader community from transmission and all of us from new strains, but we aren’t there yet.
Anonymous
Need to refresh my wardrobe for work (business casual/formal) and fun (casual) clothing, please help me with shopping so my mornings don’t suck. I have been wearing the same thing for the last 5-7 years and am really bored/uninspired. For reference I am petite and look best in black/navy and jewel tones. TIA!
anon
I recently found Pumps and Pushups on IG and I think she has a blog too. She is petite and I like her outfit suggestions.
Anon
What’s your go-to nail polish? Mine has been Essie Bordeaux recently. It’s a deep purplish brown, and since it’s so opaque and pigmented it makes DIY manicures a breeze.
Anon
Inspired by the person who needed to clean out her closet, I did the same yesterday. I tried on just about everything. I have three big bags to go to goodwill. A lot of things that don’t fit (I’m on a weight loss journey), some old work things I won’t wear again, and a lot of things that just feel out of style.
I have a hard time getting rid of work jackets and suits, and especially dresses that fit right. As a tall, when I find a dress that is long enough in the waist AND the hemline, it’s very hard for me to give it up. At some point if I wear none of them for another year, I might have to pare down more, but for now I’m happy to have room for the hangers to slide in my closet – a good feeling! Thanks for the inspo.