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Updated: Mar 22, 2022 295 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Valentina Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | · ·

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A woman with long brown hair wearing a leopard-print dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

It’s officially spring and I’m looking forward to breaking out the cute dresses that have been languishing in my closet for the last few months. Is it still cold enough that I’ll be wearing them with tights and booties? Yes. Will that stop me? Absolutely not.

This dress from 11 Honoré is a perfect transition piece. Wear it with a sweater blazer and tights in March and bare legs and sandals in June.

The dress is $208 and comes in sizes 14–22.

Here’s an option in straight sizes from CeCe; it’s $99 and available in XS–XL at Nordstrom.

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Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Workwear sales of note for 12.7.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    My office is doing a whole inclusion thing, currently focusing on persons with disabilities. So I got to hear about how we could incorporate more disabled people into our mail team or custodial staff *eyeroll*. What about white collar jobs?! My highly specialized technical team has 3 disabled folks (myself included), who haven’t disclosed due to office culture. That meeting certainly didn’t help, so now we know my colleagues don’t believe people with disabilities deserve the same jobs as them.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Yeah what?!?! that is incredibly tone deaf! White collar jobs are actually probably some of the best jobs for physically disabled, since a lot of what we do is sit at computers and is not at all physically demanding. One of my best childhood friends who I went to school with through college has been in a wheelchair his whole life due to a physical disability, is incredibly smart, and now is a successful high performing project manager at a tech firm, a basketball co-coach for middle schoolers, and a school board member. I would be furious if he had to listen to that meeting.

      • Cb

        It is shocking! Where I live, if you tick the box that you have certain disabilities and you meet the core criteria, you have to be interviewed, which I think allows people to disclose (and receive any necessary accommodation) and forces hiring managers to broaden the perceptions of who can do the role.

        • Anon

          Can you tell me more about where you work? I have a younger sibling who seems employable and generally capable but is autistic so is blunt vs charming, so often flunks the interview test (ditto colleges that rank you based on personality). But is loyal to a fault, prompt, and gets generally that no one cares outside of friends + family about various obsessive hobby topics.

          • Cb

            I’m in Scotland, so it’s a legal requirement for the public sector. My husband is autistic and is very similar – focused, methodical, hard-working, but sometimes struggles with the interpersonal stuff. He works in public sector IT services.

          • Ribena

            I’m also on Scotland and work for a large bank and we gave the same box to tick – it’s called the ‘guaranteed interview scheme’

    • Anon

      I have a family member in the autism spectrum (where depends on if it is a good day or bad day). This is so frustrating. You want someone who will do a good job? Maybe look at the whole applicant pool and don’t be afraid to broaden it.

    • Anonymous

      Some employers are apparently now asking job applicants to disclose their disabilities. This seems like a terrible idea. Just ask if people need to request any accommodations during the interview process and leave it at that. Many people have disabilities that aren’t relevant to their ability to do the job and may not be apparent to others. Demanding that they disclose their disabilities will turn them into throwaway “diversity” picks in the interview pool. Not cool.

      White-collar jobs are the best fit for many people with disabilities. A mentor of my husband’s was blind and would have had a lot of difficulty working in the mailroom or on the custodial staff, but he was a fantastic executive.

      • JMills

        Yes – I have seen that on recent job applications. I believe it was phrased “Do you have any disability for which you will need accommodations to perform the job functions.” It was a customer service job I was applying for as I lost my job during covid. I wrote in “I believe this is an illegal question.”

        • Anon

          What is a person to do then (assuming that the question was there b/c of sincere good intentions to be inclusive and accommodating)?

          • Anonymous

            By “a person” do you mean the one doing the hiring? Don’t ask anything about disability, with one exception: once the candidate is offered and has accepted an interview, ask whether they need any accommodations during the interview itself. Also make efforts to recruit more broadly so you’ll get more qualified disabled applicants in your candidate pool, some of whom will have the best skills and get hired even if you never know they are disabled.

          • anonshmanon

            And, have a separate person (admin or HR) make the interview arrangements, including asking about accommodations. This way, any disability disclosures need not be shared with the hiring committee.
            This is also the best practice for inclusive offering. Have a person who is not involved in the hiring decision, give the offer and lay out the benefits (list all family friendly benefits unasked, regardless of the applicant’s gender). This way, you can remove some of the fraughtness (this might not be a word) about asking follow up questions or negotiating.

          • Anon

            I wouldn’t check the box. I think a lot of people’s good intentions are kind of shallow.

          • Anon

            Here is why we say to check the box or not hide:

            If you’re excluded b/c you checked the box, yes, they are discriminating but also you probably would not have been hired or would be miserable working there.

            If you are interviewing, say as a person with autism who can stim a bit, the person interviewing you isn’t aware of that and may fault you for it in a way that they may have been open to had they known about the autism.

            It’s with a total leap of faith, but when you show up with a non-hidable disability, you have to really do something right out of the gate anyway.

          • Anon

            I think people are generally more understanding of “quirks” when there’s no associated label though. Once they hear the “autism” word, they become concerned by things that they would have written off as oddities before. Similarly, people can be more understanding of someone who “seems a bit on the spectrum” (in their opinion) than people with an explicit disclosed ASD Dx: that scares people.

          • Anonymous

            1:26, many people’s disabilities are not readily apparent during an interview. For these people, there is only a downside to disclosing, never an upside.

          • Anon

            I guess that’s good to know re autism.

            I know that Microsoft has an outreach program for people on the spectrum (hiring outreach) and then I do think it’s OK to apply for something where they are looking to include people specifically. But if they have such a program, I don’t think it means that you only can apply through that channel. My sense is that some companies / job types are very ASD-tolerant and others, not so much (my brother is smart in science, but would have a horrible bedside manner and should not be that sort of doctor but might be really good at being a pathologist or doing anesthesia — things were a one-track mind is a bit of a plus vs being an airtraffic controller where you need to focus on 500 things, all of which are in flux). I have a differently-wired brain, so just my opinion.

          • Anonymous

            There’s been such a HUGE change of how autism has been defined in the past 10 years and there needs to be much better messaging. I like the “Mac vs PC” description (different operating system) — and certainly not Autism Speaks’ handwringing for a “cure”). The more autistics identify as such the better for all ND people.

          • Anonymous

            Anesthesiologists need good bedside manner! Probably more than any other type of doctor.

          • OP

            Yep the word autism has huge stigma, it’s especially apparent in how colleagues talk about their kids with disabilities. How are people with disabilities supposed to believe they won’t be talked about like that too?

    • Anon

      Ugh. There are reasons why “nothing about us without us” is a mantra of disability advocacy.

    • Anon

      Ugh that’s so cringe. I have a sibling with a disability (a limb difference he was born with) and he makes a fantastic accountant, but would be a terrible custodian – a job that would actively require he physically do things beyond his physical abilities.

  2. Anon

    I’m looking for a good way to give feedback to one of the partners during the review process. For context, associates are expected to look at their formal written reviews from each partner and provide any feedback to the partner from the previous year that can help improve their working relationship. I’m a senior associate on partnership track in the next 1-2 years.

    With one partner, I find that this partner tries to plug people into their roles a bit too much and sometimes the overall project gets lost. For example, I will get pulled in on a project at Step C, and and I complete steps D and E. I will get pulled back in on step M for steps N and O. Then, I don’t hear about it again until we are done with step Z. Inevitably, a question will come up or we have some post-project cleanup. It is then that I find mistakes, and we have to go the whole way back to steps F-Z to fix things. And, of course, the client knows about these fixes.

    Basically, I feel like this partner is relying to much making each person a cog. And, this is impacting my ability to do my job correctly.

    • Anon

      What do you see as your job here, exactly? If you want to be on board the project the whole time, maybe say that directly and see if the budget for fix-ups might cover that additional time?

    • Cat

      So are you something like a specialist (employee benefits) who gets pulled into M&A sometimes? The actual suggestion to make would be something like “having an upfront meeting with SMEs about the overall deal would help provide valuable context for initial issue-spotting, even if the deal ultimately evolves as it progresses.”

      • Anon

        I think this is good phrasing, and it comes off as constructively critical (so enough to meet the threshold in this review) while also being pretty positive.

        I think you can phrase it as “one thing would be helpful is having an upfront meeting with….”

      • Anonymous

        This, plus give specific examples of times in the past where your being out of the loop had a cost to the project. In my non-legal field, it would be all the times that Project Director requested the data from the client without consulting with Analyst who was actually going to do the analysis, so the data elements required to complete the analysis were missing.

      • Anonymous

        Only a benefits lawyer would think that he/she merits an in-depth overview of the entire deal so they can throw in some ERISA provisions. This is not really commentary on this post or issue as much as some of the benefits lawyers I work with too often!

    • CHL

      I don’t know if there’s any way to provide this feedback in way that doesn’t cause potential blowback for you, except potentially framing as you are looking to professionally grow by seeing a project end-to-end, even if usually you just plug in for a piece. The benefit to you would be XXX and the benefit to the client and the Firm would be YYY.

  3. upgrade advice

    I need shirt advice!

    Role: GC at a mid size tech startup. Late 30s, build is sort of an athletic rectangle. For the past 5 years, 90% of the time I’ve been wearing jeans or fun pants & a neutral tshirt & a blazer. I vary out formality levels depending on what I’m doing each day. In the office 2/3 days a week.

    As a uniform, I like it. But I’m getting bored of a tshirt under the jacket for my in-office days and I’d like something a bit more formal/fancy/less tech startup-y. I don’t love button ups (sorry to the resident tr0ll), anything in polyester, or anything that touches my neck (so no scarves, turtlenecks, or crew necks.)

    Any advice? I have one silk tshirt from cuyana I love and am contemplating just getting a bunch more and having that be my “in the office” shirt, but am open to other thoughts! They’re a bit spendier than I would like.

    • Anon

      No advice other than some poly and synthetic shirts and blouses are much better than others. Some are wretched. Some are little miracles because I can wash and dry in the machine and they come out perfect.

      Anthro has fun things in good fabrics and also Tory Burch (and Tory Sport) might look good on you if you lean preppy at all.

    • Ribena

      I really like the blouses and tops from Uniqlo – they’re often Viscose or a blended fibre.

      • Ribena

        Oh and another thought – Boden have some tops that are great for this remit. I recently bought a black tee from them that in shape is like a standard Henley except that the yoke is broderie anglaise and there’s a little pie crust frill around the edge. It comes in a few other colours

      • Seventh Sister

        Me too. I feel like Uniqlo is now what The Gap used to be for my GenX self – reasonably priced basics that don’t look overly preppy in an office.

    • anonymous

      Check out Macys. I have some sleeveless shells from there that I wear underneath cardigans. I’ve also found some cute tops in the Lauren Conrad line at Kohls.

    • anon

      BR and BR Factory have lots of good choices for blouses. Many are poly, but I find them far less offensive than many poly choices and they wash up great. (I also tend to layer a cotton cami underneath.)

    • Anne-on

      Brooks Brothers current has a ‘satin t-shirt’ that looks nice and in general the quality of their ‘crepe’ poly is really good. I also find that Hobbs has a lot of good washable blouse options. You can also search by ‘blouses’ at Bloomingdales/JCrew and see what looks good to you (though the quality of poly varies widely, so I’d likely do an in-person trip). If you’re ok with silk, Equipment, Sezanne, and Boden have good options – frankly I don’t love silk as I I usually have to dry clean it to get it to look nice but if you’re ok with that they do look pretty on.

    • Anonymous

      Rebecca Taylor has some fun silk tops with interesting detailing; Elie Tahari has some that are more modern in styling.

  4. SOEXPENSIVE

    Putting our house on the market this weekend, so emotional! So many fond memories. So much hard work to get the house ready to go in the market. I know it is seems like in this crazy market the sellers are having a good time, but definitely not my experience so far. Last two months have been SO MUCH WORK to get ready to uproot our entire family! Please send me good vibes for open house and sale! SO NERVOUS.

    • Anon

      sending you good vibes!

      focus on why you are moving and what good stewards you all have been for your house, as it will bring someone else so many happy memories!

    • Anon

      I’m curious — what sort of work did you do (and was it on the advice of a realtor or just some things you wanted to do)? I am so afraid that if I ever put my house on the market a million things will come up on the inspection (older house, some weird franken-reno work done before us). I am amazed that people, especially if they have kids, are able to pull this off, especially if both adults work.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1. My wife had a job opportunity pop up out of state and I had a panic attack thinking of everything we’d need to do, even in this market. At minimum we’d need to repair windows, refinish the floors and replace the tub surround. Oh and redo the entire kitchen.

        • Anon

          Agreed with the panic impulse. I have real estate related PTSD and can’t watch HGTV without becoming stabby and cynical.

        • Anonymous

          Definitely do not do a kitchen reno to sell! Especially in this market. Make repairs, touch up paint, but leave the big cosmetic stuff to the next person.

          • Bonnie Kate

            +1 could not agree more with this. We’ve sold two houses that really needed kitchen renos, but left them for the next buyer because it’s just so taste specific.

            This we did in the couple months leading up to listing/selling our first house:
            -had everything repainted. bold teal in our bedroom got painted cream, everything else got repainted the neutral that it was.
            -replaced the crappy carpet that needed to be replaced anyway with mid-range neutral carpet
            -made a list of every single thing we had done to the house while owning it (updated hot water heater in xx year, new a/c in xx year, replaced stairs in xxx, replaced roof/windows in xxx, etc.), and left copies for the showings. We ended up accepting an offer that didn’t require a home inspection, and realtor said the buyers were comfortable with this because of the list we provided.
            -completely decluttered – was necessary anyway for moving across country, but I do think it helped with the sale.

          • Anon

            You get 57% of your money back on a kitchen reno; if you spend $50,000 on it, you’ll get about $28k in increased sale prices. Just let the new owners do what they want on their own dime.

          • pugsnbourbon

            Good points, thanks all! Our kitchen is showing wear – appliances except for dishwasher are approaching end of life, cabinets are banged up. Now that I think about it we could replace the fridge, paint the cabinets and probably call it a day.

          • Senior Attorney

            Absolutely agree with this. Anybody who wants a brand new kitchen is going to want it to their specific taste.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            I would never, ever do a kitchen or bathroom reno to sell in any market, you’ll never recoup the cost no matter how well it’s done or how budget-conscious you are. I think the most payoff is fresh paint where needed, a good deep clean and decluttering, replacing any wall to wall carpeting and obviously fixing any structural/HVAC stuff. Anything beyond that won’t be worth the time or money! I would totally buy a house that needed to have the floors refinished and some windows fixed if it’s priced appropriately.

        • Anon

          When we bought our house 15 years ago, it needed a cosmetic kitchen reno. We replaced appliances as they died but still haven’t done the reno. At this point, we may sell in the next two years. If we do, we will absolutely leave the reno for the next homeowner. If we decide to stay longer, we will do it for ourselves so we can enjoy it, not for the non-existent impact on the sale price.

          • Anne-on

            +1 – we’re in the same boat. 10 years in and we’ve done the bathrooms and replaced appliances as they died but still haven’t gotten around to the kitchen reno. We’ll also likely tackle it in 2023/24 as we ‘recommited’ to our old house during the pandemic mostly because I can’t stomach the idea of packing up and moving, though the paring down/organizing made our space much more useable.

    • Smokey

      We are contemplating putting our house on the market in the next few years, so had our realtor friend (who will eventually list the house) walk through and make suggestions. We also used a pay by the hour decorator for some additional suggestions. We’ve lived here for 30 years, and didn’t do many upgrades in the last 20 years, so it looked really dated. On the realtor’s advice, we put a binder today with the papers for all major repairs and upgrades. We had the chimney inspected (a big issue in our area) and made the recommended repairs. We will refinish the hardwood floors and have the roof inspected as we get closer. We also did a major declutter, repainted, and replaced the out of fashion window swags that I sewed 30 years ago with inexpensive panels. In the kitchen, we did a refreshing which included new hardware as well as new countertops. This has taken us about a year but our move isn’t imminent. Not all the changes were necessarily required but the house looks so much better- fresh and clean- which we are really enjoying.

  5. Anon

    Ugh. Having one of those times where I am regretting going to law school. Being in law is the worst slog sometimes because the time needed to do a task may be infinite but the ability to bill the client for that time is not and also I should eat and sleep each day so as not to die (or impact my ability to continue as a billing unit). Most times aren’t like this but today I am dreaming (ha! As if I slept) about other lives I could have led.

    • Brunette Elle Woods

      Just a general reminder, going to law school does not mean you are forced to be an attorney for the rest of your life! I practiced for 4 years and switched careers in my early 30’s. Best decision I have ever made!

      • Anon

        True. I think when you’re in the trenches, unless you rage-quit, you’ve got to roll with it until the task is done and/or you’ve accepted another offer. Until then, it can just be a nightmare. Don’t forget to breathe!

      • Anonymous

        What did you switch to? Always curious to hear about these types of career changes!

        • Brunette Elle Woods

          I am in compliance, specifically I focus on anti-money laundering compliance and work for larger financial institutions. There are lots of opportunities in this area and room for growth. A law degree is valuable but not required. I’m much happier!!

      • Anon

        Almost the exact same situation here. I practiced for six years and switched to a new career at 31. Now that I have kids I don’t know how I ever would have managed being a lawyer mom. Being a working mom with a boring 9-5 job is hard enough.

      • Anon

        Also, you don’t need to work for a firm forever. I recently transitioned to in-house counsel. I don’t necessarily work a lot less, but the relief from billable hours is really great.

  6. Anon

    for those organizing and spring cleaning (or delaying same), a morning chuckle: here’s to organizing, coordinating auto refill and finding the perfect accessible but pretty storage for each bathroom to hold my tampons and liners….then losing my period!

  7. Anon

    Has anyone ever been to Tulip Time in Holland, MI? We live a couple of hours away and are considering going up for mother’s day weekend, which is also my birthday this year. I love tulips. But I’m a little concerned it will be so crowded and stressful that we won’t get to enjoy the flowers.

    • Anon

      It is busy but not like Grand Haven during Coast Guard Festival. If flowers are your thing, you may also enjoy Frederik Meijer Gardens in Grand Rapids.

  8. Anonymous

    Does anyone else feel like EVERYONE else knows how to get a job [in law] and you just . . . don’t? This isn’t even about resume writing or interviewing because I can usually not even get to that stage, it’s legit about even getting a recruiter to talk to me. I rationally know I shouldn’t get down on myself because recruiters look for low hanging fruit – the general corporate/lit 4th year associate that they can move to the competing firm across the street and make a commission quickly. But I honestly feel like the ONLY one who sometimes talks to recruiters [usually once or twice a year to keep in touch with the market] and they leave me with – well you have a very “unique” background, you’re soooo senior – i.e. sorry my computer listings show nothing for you and no I’m not going to work to get you in any place.

    FWIW – I AM old and not a partner which in law is the kiss of death 15 years out of school. Yet with the whole requisite of ivy degrees, 9 years as an associate, 6 years at a competitive fed agency I hardly think I’m untouchable [though I did switch practice areas going into the federal government so maybe that makes me too “unique”]. I don’t HAVE to leave my agency, I like it well enough, and maybe I won’t if I never get a good offer; but I do want to do other things in my career, ideally. Yet recruiters can’t/won’t even shop my resume to get me an interview. Part of me is like maybe just drop a few resumes at firms directly, what is there to lose? Or leave law altogether because no firm is going to want to touch my “unique” background.

    • Anon

      Now that the pandemic has gotten much better, I think it’s time to refresh your network and start going to lunch with people again and doing informational interviewing. And be in orgs that meet-up in person or have CLE or networking events. IMO, that is how stuff really happens, especially if you are unique.

      • January

        +1. I don’t think you should be trying to work with recruiters. They are interested in job candidates who will be easy to place.

        • Anon

          Also, check your LinkedIn and make sure it is very up-to-date and is in sell mode. Tick the box that you are open to new possiblities.

        • Anon

          Yeah – to your point, they’re interested in low hanging fruit. You ARE senior, which is great, but it also means there are fewer jobs, and the jobs that are filled by recruiters tend to be filled by very different recruiters than the lower level jobs.

    • Cat

      FWIW… you’re not clearly articulating here what you want or why your choice seems to be “back to a firm or leave the industry.”

    • anon

      I have had a succession of good jobs post law firm and have never used a recruiter. Is there a reason you aren’t applying for jobs and networking on your own?

    • anon

      I’m a few years behind you, and I felt exactly the same way when looking for jobs. In my legal career, I’ve never gotten a job through a recruiter. Like I am so bad at speaking to them, I don’t know what to say, and clearly, my background isn’t one that places easily enough to make them a commission. My in-house positions resulted from networking, and more importantly, personal referrals. To the other comments above, have you reached out to people who you enjoyed working with in the past and let them know you’re looking? That, IME, is the way to go.

    • Katrinka

      I hear a lot of pain and frustration in this post, but also a lot of blame, which I think is counterproductive. It’s not wrong for recruiters to want to place candidates who are “easier.” It’s the nature of their business. Rather than focusing on this as something they are doing wrong or that is a roadblock for you, perhaps recognize it as a sign that, as others on this thread have said, going through a recruiter isn’t the right path for you.

      Of course reach out to firms directly; where were you an associate for 9 years? Any reason you can’t try to go there as a counsel or partner? Do you have law school classmates or former colleagues at any other firms – why not reach out to them directly?

  9. Jo April

    Anyone have a recommendation for where to get laser hair removal in Boston/Cambridge?

    • anonymous

      I believe Jean from Extra Petite has blogged about her hair removal experience. She lives in Boston.

    • Anonymous

      I had a good experience with Clear Cosmetic Clinic in Brookline some years ago.

  10. Anon

    Suggestions for affordable workwear? I’m a 1L and will be interning with a public interest org over the summer, so I figure I need a lot more work-y clothes, but I’m on a budget. Usually a 6-8, short, and curvy, if that helps

    • Anne-on

      I was surprised/impressed by the quality of Loft’s spring offering when I popped in there recently. For this I’d take a day and try to hit Loft, Ann Taylor, Talbots, and Banana to see what things look/feel like in person – there are scratchy/see through synthetics but I’ve also found good quality washable workwear at all of those places recently. I’d definiely try to go with washable and as many natural fibers as you can, dry cleaning bills will be insane otherwise and poly tops can hold onto smells like nobody’s business.

      • Anon

        Follow up question w/r/t scratchy fabrics: Is work style more relaxed/soft fabric focused now? I worked pre-law school and it was definitely a hard pants age, but wondering if we’ve moved past that with COVID

        • Anon

          I’m not buying anything new that’s in the hard-pants bucket, but I do think that softer is it for the time being. Now, if I could just get pants that come down to my ankles (vs shorter ones that get stuck bunched up on my calves when I sit — my legs are a reasonable length and I’m find with shorter lengths, but when they appear as knickers on me, no, just no).

        • Anne-on

          My job is still on the formal side of business casual (no full suits, but no jeans, and jackets/blazers are pretty common) so what I mean by ‘soft’ is more of a personal preference for natural fibers vs. scratchy poly blends, or avoiding poorly finished seams/metallic threads (which can be scratchy imho). I am definitely not seeing rufflepuff dresses/sneakers/joggers at work if that’s what you’re asking. I also try to search out higher end ponte dresses which look nice, are washable, and are thick enough to not show every lump (shockingly, this is an extremely difficult needle to thread).

          • Anon

            I’m thinking of pants that aren’t itchy unlined wool and maybe have a hint of elastic somewhere in the waist.

            Agree on hard to find poly dresses that have shaping that also don’t show every lump and bump (poly faux wrap and wrap dresses). I don’t want to have to wear spanx or skimms to wear clothes.

    • anon

      Loft and BR Factory are good sources for workwear on a budget. Especially if you hit the right sales.

    • Nina

      I like the Old Navy pixie pants I got, think they re did them to address the fading issue, very affordable and perfect for work.
      Otherwise I think I owned half of Ann Taylor Loft when I was in your position.
      Express pants
      BR factory on sale has been pretty great recently. I basically didn’t have any work clothes and bought most of it from BR factory on sale.

    • Diana Barry

      I could send you some things if you would like! I am a 6-8 but tallish and more straight up and down, but I bet some of my Boden shift-ish dresses would fit you!

      You can email me at dianabarry r e t t e at g m a i l (all one word) and I’ll look at what I have!

    • Allie

      Thredup.com and swap.com can have great options — workwear is particularly cheap on swap.com now because I think demand is low.

    • Anonymous

      I got a lot of good-enough professional clothes from the outlets (BR, Ann Taylor, J Crew) when I did my 1L summer. Especially at a public interest org, I think outlet-level clothes are more than sufficient.

    • anon

      Unless you’re going into court regularly, it is very possible that your current law student clothes are equivalent to 2022 public interest work clothes, or at least close enough that you won’t necessarily need a lot of new stuff.

  11. Cb

    In law advice? My husband’s relationship with his mum and stepmum (married) really seems to have deteriorated since my son was born 5 years ago. I think my husband felt his family would be more interested and involved than they are and there have been various disagreements over Covid handling (resistance to testing before seeing us etc), flaking out on calls with our son, etc. And lately he’s been talking quite a bit about his childhood and I think realising things were pretty rough at times – superficially a great childhood (museums! opera! stay-at-home mom!) but with really difficult family dynamics (co-living situation with quite unstable personalities, divorce, mom’s new female partner which led to school bullying).

    I kind of ignore their existence unless it directly impacts me, but any advice on helping my husband manage his frustration towards them? It makes conversations he has with/about them really negative and sometimes has ramifications for our relationship with my parents – who have moved heaven and earth to be closer to us and are really engaged and supportive.

    For context, my husband is on the spectrum, which makes this interpersonal stuff doubly complicated and they are all very stereotypically English, so unlikely to have it out and heal. Not sure he’d be super open to therapy at the moment, but hoping long-term to nudge him that way.

    • Anon

      I think you’ve got to let him be frustrated. It’s good if you both are – I think there’s way more conflict where one spouse thinks their family is great and the other disagrees. I have a difficult MIL, husband agrees, so we strategize together about how to deal with her. Stay on the same team with your husband. Let him be frustrated, figure out what you both can handle with the ILs amd go from there.

    • Vicky Austin

      I have a friend with a narcissistic mother (confirmed diagnosis) who shared something with me that she learned in therapy: you are allowed to grieve the mother you didn’t have. I find the idea of allowing yourself to grieve something endlessly applicable and helpful, whether it was the loss of a person or anything else. Framing it as grief sort of gives the loss a finality and helps you to stop hoping that things will be different or some anecdote will come out that explains everything (a particular favorite fantasy of mine, heh) while also acknowledging that something was missing, that you were/are hurt by that lack, and that it will take time and patience to learn to live with it since it may never fully go away. I’m sorry for your husband’s struggles and I hope that helps you help him.

      PS: I totally get the in-law reverb. My parents are so far the negative/grouchy ones and my in-laws are a delight, and it is Work! for me to keep from either throwing my parents under the bus and giving up on having a good relationship with them, or from getting outraged and defensive when my husband points out their flaws or is irritated with them.

      • Cb

        Thanks Vicky, that’s super helpful! I think reseting expectations is really helpful. I think he assumed (and they implied) that once we had a child, they’d be more involved but it’s beyond their will and capacity to do so, and accepting that seems like an important first step.
        And yes on the in-law reverb. My husband got grouchy because “your parents can’t come twice when my mom hasn’t been at all…”. Erm, we gave your mom dibs on 3 weekends and she couldn’t do any of them…snooze you lose. Plus my parents are actually helpful and you enjoy their company more.

        • Vicky Austin

          Glad I could help! Yes, definitely – he may have to grieve the grandparents he thought his parents could be, too. Hugs!

    • Allie

      I don’t know if this will help but I like to try to focus on the positives of having only one primary set of grandparents (no arguing over who we spend holidays with! no regular demands on our free time! very minimal undermining of my parenting values since very minimal interaction! . . . ). YMMV.

    • Anon

      My family is a cluster of dysfunction, including alcoholism, drug use, serial divorces, and physical and emotional abuse. This got worse when my husband and I got married; from what I understand, it’s not uncommon for dysfunctional families to become more dysfunctional when an adult child gets married or has children.

      The things my husband has done well: separating out his emotions from my emotions. He wants me to have a happy family of origin but acknowledges that the cruelty and dysfunction are psychologically devastating to me. He supports the boundaries I draw with them (no contact). He tries really hard to not make his family the “good” family (and once he figured out what classless, rude people his brother and SIL were, that became easier).

      Your job isn’t really to support your husband in his relationship with his family… your job is to help each other learn from your respective childhoods and build a functional, healthy family. Being supportive of your husband is part of that, but it’s not the sole end goal.

    • anon

      No advice just commiseration. Husband had a similar “superficially great childhood” but so many not normal things when you start to think about it, and definitely not a family that will pick up the keys at 2am and just start driving when someone is in need. What’s helped on the grieving process is being able to put the experiences in context of ages, e.g., mom did x that upset me and she was five years younger then than I am now. It might just be me, but sometimes I feel like our parents get stuck in our head at their current age, when a lot of the stuff that we still “grieve” happened when they were in their early thirties -e.g., we are holding the actions of broke 26 year old to the standard of fully competent 70 year olds we now know. I also think that sometimes having a relationship with someone as a “person” divorced from their being your parent can be another path forward – you learn to grieve the nurturing/care giving aspect but find common ground and interests. Ok, a lot of rambling, not sure if any of it resonates with you.

      • Anon

        Not OP but this resonates with me.
        My mom had me at 21 and therefore, a lot of our teenage drama that caused my resentment was when she was younger than I am not (40+). Putting in context helps a lot.

    • Anon

      I don’t know if this will be helpful or not but my own mom wasn’t that exited about my kids. She became a grandma early in life when my younger sister got pregnant in college and started her family with her boyfriend, and she practically raised those grandkids herself. They lived with her for a while, she babysat all weekend most weekends and did quite a lot of the afterschool care despite working full time herself. By the time my kids were born 10+ years later, she was just kind of done with it all. And because we lived a 4 hour drive away, she was just always going to be closer to the grandkids she had raised and who lived close to her.

      So she was warm and somewhat grandmotherly when she saw my kids but she didn’t make any effort to see them, we always had to go see her, and when we did she was more interested in hanging out with us rather than the grandkids. Which hurt my feelings because by that point she was the only living grandparent on either side, and I really wanted my kids to have the grandparent experience.

      It changed for the better when two things happened – my son started to grow out of his baby face and it became clear that he really resembled his grandma. She loved that! We pointed it out all the time and called him her Mini Me. She shared pictures of him with all of her friends then, and they all laughed about it with her. It kind of made her bond with him more.

      The second thing was Camp Gma. We were stuck between summer camps one summer when my two were school age and we asked my mom if she could please please take the kids for a week. She didn’t want to but we were in a bind. We arranged for my teenaged niece to also stay with Grandma, and we paid her. It was a success! Grandma felt closer to my kids after a week, and my kids now have real grandma memories that they otherwise wouldn’t have. We did Camp Gma three summers in a row, and I’m so grateful we did (even though we had to make the 8 hour round trip two weekends in a row to make it happen) because now my Mom is no longer with us and it’s all we have.

      Now my kids weren’t 100% thrilled about spending a week there. It was boring, grandma was grouchy sometimes, my niece was on her phone all the time. But the kids were safe and it’s one of those things where you just have to accept that other people are going to do it differently than you do.

      So that’s my suggestion. Maybe you ask the grandmas if your son can spend a weekend with them because you really need their help and have no other options. Your kid will survive it and you may not want to do it again, but at least the grandmas will be forced into a relationship with him. And it wouldn’t hurt to ooh and aah about how much he looks like your husband’s mom.

    • Telco Lady JD

      I don’t have any real advice – just solidarity. My husband and I met, married, and had our first (and thus far only) kid when we were older – and so our parents are older also. My parents are dealing with some health issues and live half a continent away….and my MIL is similarly dealing with health issues and has been a grandma for 11 years already and is just sort of….over it?

      We’ve largely just embraced the fact that, for our daughter to have a relationship with her grandparents, all of the work is on us. They come to VISIT, not to HELP. And, while it made us crazy at first…changing our expectations has really helped us just…get on with it.

  12. Anon

    Any trip planning advice for the Netherlands and Belgium? We’re thinking of going for a week this July. We’d fly into/out of Amsterdam and have 8 nights over there. I imagine we don’t need to stay in Amsterdam for the entire time. Would Bruges be a good second base? I’m not a big city person and would prefer to stay somewhere quaint and take take day trips from there. What are good day trips from Amsterdam and Bruges?

    • Cb

      Belgium is generally boring (as someone with a degree in Belgian politics…) but Bruges is lovely for 3-4 days. From Amsterdam, I’d like to do one of those cycling / barge trips, either on a normal bike or ebike.

    • Anon

      I went to graduate school in Leuven – very cute college town with some buildings dating to the 13th or 14th century. Easy to walk around it. Easy train ride from Bruges or Amsterdam. Shouldn’t be too overrun with drunk college kids over the summer.

      • Cb

        I did fieldwork in Leuven! It’s pretty cute. Ghent is cute as well, probably prettier than Leuven?

        • Ribena

          Ghent is really cute, I haven’t been to Leuven so can’t compare. Can however recommend the Bruges chocolate museum!

    • Anon

      I loved Utrecht! I started in Amsterdam for a few days, did a day trip to the Hague (loved the Louwman Museum and The Mauritshuis, was easy to navigate train between the two cities by myself), then did a few days in Utrecht. Also wanted to go to Bruges but never made it. Have the best time, this was one of my favorite trips!

    • AIMS

      Amsterdam is really fun and I could easily do a week just there with all the museums and history and great restaurants.. Haarlem is a good and easy day trip; Rotterdam is also fun. The train trips to both are also really lovely – you get to see the beautiful Dutch countryside. You could also go to The Hague if that is your cup of tea.

      • OP

        Hmm ok maybe we will just spend the whole week in Amsterdam + day trips from there. I am generally a fan of spending longer than “necessary” in a destination because I like to travel at a slower pace and soak a place up, I just wasn’t sure there was enough in Amsterdam and environs to fill a week, but it sounds like there is.

        • Anon

          I don’t have any recommendations about these places, but your description of how you travel is the same as mine and it has always worked out well. I can easily imagine that a week based in Amsterdam, with day trips to the degree you want, is a terrific idea.

          • OP

            It was mostly driven by having a kid because you can’t drag a kid (at least, not my kid) to three museums in one day and except them to remain calm. But I have to say I really enjoy the slower pace.

        • A

          Don’t do that, you’ll miss some lovely stuff in Belgium.
          Ghent, Bruges and Antwerp are all awesome. Skip Brussels.
          In the Netherlands, Amsterdam and maybe a side trip to delft.
          I’d spend more time in Belgium vs NL.

    • Anon

      I found Bruges pretty boring – nice for a day but I definitely felt I did everything I needed to. I would have spent longer in The Hague for the museums (and I’m not generally a huge art person. The Escher museum in particular was an unexpected delight. Definitely get Indonesian food when in Amsterdam.

    • A

      Ghent …loveliness personified
      Bruges
      Antwerp …maybe make this your base?
      Delft
      Amsterdam
      See if you can drive from one country to the other. Some engineering feats on the way.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Love Amsterdam, but I’ve been to Brussels and Bruges and I don’t think I’d go back again (nothing terrible, just not the most exciting destinations). For Amsterdam, get tickets to the Anne Frank House in advance, and be sure to eat a rijsttafel meal at a restaurant.

  13. anon

    Curious what others think of this. I’m now in my early 40s and yearning for my life to be … simpler. Not in an Instagram-influencer way. I’m tired of the full-time working grind. I’m tired of “my people” (i.e., parents, siblings, close friends) not being part of my everyday interactions. We all live within an hour of each other, but that’s not really the same as having overlapping lives. I’m tired of so many interactions feeling shallow and/or transactional. I’m tired of trying to project a certain image at work, everything from how I act, to what I wear, to finding the politically correct way to say “no, I’m not doing that.” I’m frankly really tired of my career, period, but I have no clue what to do instead. Even though my kids are older, I think I’d get some satisfaction out of quitting for a few years to be a SAHM, but DH will not entertain that notion.

    I ran away from my small hometown when I went to college and didn’t look back. But now, as a middle-aged adult, I sort of see the appeal of comfort, and familiarity, and actually feeling connected to the people you’re around. Don’t get me wrong, I left for a reason and it’s not all sunshine and roses. If I actually moved back, I’d probably go crazy in different ways. I guess I’m just tired of striving to be “more,” in every sense of the word. I have an objectively good life, but I feel unfulfilled in some core ways. Is this just adulthood?

    • Anon

      Yeah I think a lot of this is adulthood. But I also think you can be more intentional about carving out time with your people. Say this to them. Tell them you want to see them more!

    • Anonymous

      It sounds like what you are looking for is a community with deeper roots and relationships. I don’t know where you live, if you have a faith/ religious community, or how often you see your close friends (you mentioned they live within an hour – that already sounds amazing!), but a community is built from repeat small interactions. It’s not easy. You go out of your comfort zone. Sometimes there’s friction. It’s hard work, and tiring. It’s easier when you’re in a homogenous environment (which is why so many close friendships are wrought in school or college), but it’s not impossible to forge a community where you’ve landed. Do you have a hobby? Volunteer? A standing meetup with friends? I guess if I were in your shoes I would try to start there.

      • anon

        I am part of a faith community. It has helped somewhat, but the pandemic really changed the nature of things. However, now that things ARE back in person, a lot of the familiar faces haven’t necessarily returned. Maybe they’re doing online worship, which is great, but many of those casual interactions just aren’t happening. That’s a whole other discussion!

        I have tried doing a standing meetup, but if I don’t organize it, it doesn’t happen. And half the time, people end up flaking anyway, so it’s very frustrating.

    • Cornellian

      I think that does end up just being adulthood unless you really fight it and build and maintain a community. I’m not sure it’s “supposed” to be this hard, but it realistically is for most of us.

      If you’re part of a faith community (or interested), that might be one thing to explore.

      I’ve also had luck befriending a lot of my neighbors, going to block parties, etc. Just chatting to other dog owners, etc.

      Volunteering locally can also be helpful.

      I think we can create our own village as adults, but it does take a bit of work. On the upside, the village you create can be one that aligns with your values, rather than the one you would inherit in a small town.

    • Anon

      I’m your age and never got to leave my hometown due to family illness, and I’m currently having a midlife crisis about that. So yes, I think it’s just a “path not traveled” thing.

      • Monday

        This makes sense. I know a lot of happy people who left home and then returned later. But never leaving in the first place, when you wanted to do so, is different.

    • CHL

      Are you me? During the Pandemic and the re-opening phase, one thing I appreciated so much was how much more of my time was spent with my neighbors, friends, my kids, my family and even church (via zoom). Part of it I think is straight up mid-life crisis but I just never had that experience when I was hustling to work downtown everyday etc. I don’t know the answer, but for me, it involved taking lateral step at work instead of continuing to climb, and prioritizing time with my people even at the expense of moving forward at work.

    • Monday

      I feel this hard. I moved back to my hometown at age 36, and it’s probably the best life decision I’ve ever made. Granted, at that time my employer was a sinking ship and my husband had just dumped me. So the thought of a soft place to land and people who loved me was even more appealing. I now see my siblings and mom at least once a month. We exchange pet-sitting and other favors. We know each other’s lives, hobbies and friends.

      I feel today that I understand “community” in a much deeper way because I am an adult, working in public service and raising kids, in the same place I was raised. I think white-collar culture today includes very little connection to place, and that includes adults not investing time in their communities because they’re not planning to stay, they work remotely, travel all the time, or other reasons. That was very easily going to be my life as well. In fact, the year my husband left me I was without a place to go for Christmas because I had just gotten back from a (terrible) work trip and nobody local invited me. That summed up the position I was in.

      I think some distance from friends, and being consumed by work, is “just adulthood.” But we do also have some choices, and location is a big one.

    • Anonymous

      I completely understand. When I first moved to my current neighborhood we really got to know our neighbors, but they have all retired and moved to Arizona and the next generation of neighbors does not GAF about building a neighborhood. They just want their Amazon Prime and food delivery orders on time and otherwise never leave the house. I have been reconnecting with some old friends who are empty nesting, but don’t have any new ties to the community.

      • anon

        OP here, and I have noticed this too. We have been on our street for 11 years now. There was a stronger community at the beginning than there is now. People just … don’t care to be around other people, it seems.

        • Anon

          I’ve noticed this in many different facets of my life and it makes me SO SAD. All I want is a strong community feeling.

    • Anon

      Life is not a hallmark movie. If you move back to your hometown, the same things that drove you away will drive you crazy again.

      I hear you on the fantasy of a simpler life. I had the same escape fantasy for many of my working years. But you are in your prime earning years. You have kids to support and get through college and your own retirement to save for. You need to keep working.

      I understand completely your husband saying he will not entertain the notion of you becoming a SAHM. It’s like you saying “I don’t want to do any of this – you do it all” – how would you feel if your husband decided he wanted to be a SAHD and just dumped all the working responsibilities on you?

      I know the pat answer around here is therapy, but honestly, that’s what you need. Figure out what’s really bugging you without deciding to blow up your life on an impulse.

      • Anonymous

        Are you married with kids? I work, and then I put in the “second shift.” My husband does a few chores and thinks he’s an equal partner, but for me parenting and running the household is a second full-time job. Becoming a SAHM is hardly dumping responsibility on the husband. It’s the opposite–in two-earner opposite-sex couples, the vast majority of the home- and child-related work is dumped on the mom, on top of her paid job. If I quit my paid job, I’d still work at least as much as my husband, but we’d both be happier because I wouldn’t be stretched beyond my limits and my husband wouldn’t have to do the laundry.

      • Anonymous

        This is really unfair. First of all, most women shoulder the lion’s share of the household and childcare responsibilities, whether they’re working outside of the home or inside of the home. So I think it’s an unfair characterization of a SAHM “dumping” all the working responsibilities on her husband when really, she’d be picking up more of the household/childcare responsibilities and presumably taking that burden off of her husband. There may be other reasons for someone to keep working but to act like she’s just a freeloader riding on her husband’s hard work is s*xist and ridiculous.

        • Anon

          No it isn’t. No one gets to decide someone else must work to financially support them. It needs to be a joint decision. Of course her husband should share in the home responsibilities. But that is not what OP is complaining about. She’s complaining about working, and that is just the reality for the vast majority of us.

          For the the record, my husband was a SAHD for 3 years when our kids were young. That was a mutual decision between us. But it would not have been ok with me if he wanted to do it forever. Thankfully he didn’t.

          • Anonymous

            That’s a strawman you’re arguing against. I didn’t say the spouse didn’t have to agree. I said that your statement was sexist, and it is. This was the statement: It’s like you saying “I don’t want to do any of this – you do it all” – how would you feel if your husband decided he wanted to be a SAHD and just dumped all the working responsibilities on you?

    • Katrinka

      Could you just relax at your job a bit? Just be yourself, stop trying so hard to do the politics right and just be frank with people, don’t project a certain image or act a certain way? Other people are probably a lot less likely to even notice than you think – they’re not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. And it seems like a good middle ground between the bad experience you’re having now and quitting outright. You’re not going to get fired overnight – if for some reason just relaxing and being yourself isn’t acceptable at your workplace, they’ll let you know and give you time to correct it. But my guess is it won’t be an issue at all.

    • Coach Laura

      Late reply and as per normal, I didn’t read all the responses but I built a community by leaning into the PTA and soccer mom community at my kid’s elementary school and got my two best friends from that. Invite them for a weekend early morning walk or a Starbucks coffee hour. Invite the kids over to play and get out the wine and cheese. Other ideas would to have a strong block neighborhood group where you have BBQs in the summer and hot cider open houses in the winter with all the kids. Alternately, start a book club and make an effort to connect with one or two people. Or start or join a supper club, either alone or as a couple.

  14. Anonymous

    Moving logistics problem here that I’m hoping the Hive can help or give me some ideas. TIA!

    My younger sibling is finishing up their medical residency in NYC this summer and moving back to the West Coast. I live in Maryland. My sibling wants me to drive up before they move out and put their extra stuff that they don’t want to ship back to the other coast (some small furniture, bunch of winter clothing, a couple of houseplants) in my SUV and bring back to my house. Problem – I **absolutely** refuse to drive in NYC. I’m willing to drive up to a train station on the NJ side of the Hudson, but that’s the farthest I will drive. Is there a service that will drive my car for me? A small moving service that can take my sibling’s stuff, definitely less than truckload (thanks Hive for teaching me this term last week!), and bring it either to Maryland or NJ? I guess our budget is around $500 ish? We’d have a definite pick-up date, but arrival time of the stuff to my house is flexible.

    (Our parents live overseas so not an option there either. Our mom mentioned a distant cousin that might be able to help, but I have reservations about this idea since I know this cousin once totaled a car while driving in cornfields in rural Illinois…)

    • Anon

      Can your sibling or one of their friends drive your car in NYC? They could meet you at the train station and then drive into the city…

      • Anonymous

        OP here – forgot to add this important detail, sibling doesn’t drive and not sure if any of their friends do (at least in the city).

        • Anon

          Sibling can mail the clothes in a small moving box (or as many small moving boxes as needed). Third class. Cheap. If not worth it, donate.

          Donate plants to friends.

          Furniture — is it worth moving? Truly? UShip is who you want to deal with and they will do it door to door.

    • Anon

      Is this stuff even worth $500 and your time? Winter gear? Donate. Small furniture? Donate. If they are leaving it and moving to the West Coast, they won’t be needing it and likely won’t come back for it. How would they ever get the furniture back? I would donate it all and get a donation receipt. Find a friend locally who will take the plants. They are medical — surely they will understand the concept of ripping off a bandaid re un-needed possessions?

      And if it’s not precious antiques and can be boxed, Greyhound carries freight.

      • Cb

        Yeah, they could put the winter clothes in a suitcase and bring it to your house. And small furniture, assuming non-heirloom, doesn’t seem work it? Do you want to take care of a bunch of house plants?

        • Anon

          Or even mail the clothes in a box to you (but in MD, you presumably have the winter clothes you need already) or even to them in CA (best route, IMO).

      • Anon

        This. My first thought was get rid of that stuff. By the time sibling needs it again, it will be out of date and musty. And unless the furniture is antique heirloom, get rid of it.

        • Anon

          +1

          How much unneeded stuff can you put in a NYC apartment? I knew a guy once who had one pot and one fork b/c his space was so tiny. Sibling must be good at Tetris.

    • Anon

      Alternatively, sibling loads a car or rental truck and drives it to you at the suburban train station or other location, transfers stuff to your car, and then you drive home without going to the city at all.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed. You are a very generous sibling! I say, if it’s sibling’s stuff, it’s sibling’s responsibility to get it to you, not the other way around.

      • Anon

        I’m from NJ and drove in NYC exactly once and would not recommend to someone not familiar with it, so MD person, trust your gut on this. NYC is many difficulty levels above DC, especially coming from NJ, especially if via the tunnels and the GWB is no picnic b/c you may be super far north of where you need to go. Once you are on the actual streets it is not as bad, but the approaches are very white-knuckle. For decades I have gladly left my car in Hoboken or Jersey City or Weehawken and used transit or my feet on the other side of the river.

      • NYCer

        +1. Driving in NYC is honestly fine. Can your sibling pay for you to stay in a hotel in suburban NJ the night before, and then you drive in early on a Saturday or Sunday morning.

        Otherwise, I would just tell your sibling to rent a truck and drive down to MD. It will be more annoying to have to pack and unpack twice to just drive it to your car in NJ.

        • Anon

          It may be so annoying to sibling to deal with a car rental and street parking in NYC to load it and driving I-95 to MD that sibling may . . . decide to donate / give it away / freecycle the stuff that they seem to have no plan to ship to CA or ever reclaim. Which is as it should be. That $500 could let you all have a nice celebratory dinner.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with this – DC native. If Maryland OP drives in the DC area, here’s why I think NYC is not much harder. In the DC area, driving is very hard because you have a mix of aggressive and modest drivers, and you never know which one to be prepared for. In NYC, I found you can just expect people to be aggressive, which takes one variable out of the equation.

    • Brunette Elle Woods

      Can’t your sibling meet you at the train station and drive the car to their apartment? Alternatively rent a car and drive down to your home in Maryland. Sounds like you’re being nice enough to allow your sibling to use your home as a free storage unit so they should be willing to incur the expense of driving it down there or hiring a moving company.

    • Anonymous

      Sibling takes a train to NJ and meets you at whichever train station they arrive at. They drive your car into NYC, load it up, drive it back out, and either drive you back to Maryland or you switch in NJ if you want to drive. But yeah how valuable is this stuff? Unless there is some reason to keep it, do medical residents even have such nice furniture/plants that they’re worth saving? Because I assume the plan is to store it at your house and then eventually move it from there to the west coast when they’re settled. Is it such nice stuff that they’ll want it as an attending? [I get it if it’s sentimental stuff.] If they can be convinced to ditch the furniture and plants, clothing is easy. Box is up and mail it third class mail to your home or to their home on the west coast if they have one yet – it’ll take time but it’ll arrive eventually; and they can mail as many boxes as needed.

    • Cat

      The houseplants need to go to a local friend, sibling can literally mail you the winter clothes for less than $100. Why are they intent on keeping the furniture?

    • Anonymous

      If your sibling is finishing their residency, they are an adult and can figure out the disposition of their stuff on their own. Presumably they are starting a permanent job, so if they aren’t willing to move their stuff with them then they don’t really want it. I wouldn’t accept this stuff into my house.

    • Anon

      I understand the trepidation about driving in the city but when you get there, they’re just streets. You can drive in the city. You can do it. Seriously.

      • Anon

        Like why though? To pick up a bunch of un-needed winter clothes and furniture no one wants? Does the sister have a minivan or Suburban? None of this proposal makes any sense (do not take the plants — they need to stay in NYC or guaranteed they will overturn in your car and make a mess). Go to visit, not to store someone else’s junk for an indefinite period of time. Donate and visit! Or Viking funeral for the stuff.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks everyone – I think it’s clear from suggestions here that I should talk my sibling into donating/selling all the extra stuff prior to moving out. None of the furniture is special and I’m guessing they could sell it to the next class of residents or interns or whatever. There’s a monstera plant that I would like, but probably not worth the headache of NYC street parking.

      • Katrinka

        Definitely not worth driving several hours to pick up a plant… And beyond that, none of this is your problem. I get doing favors for family, but this isn’t one where you are “needed.” If something isn’t worth moving, it isn’t worth keeping. You say your sibling is moving “back” to the West Coast – when will they ever be back out east? When would they ever use this stuff again, esp. the furniture?

      • Anon

        If there’s just one plant you want and you want to see sibling before they move, I’d drive up for the weekend, leave the car at the train station and then take the plant and a suitcase of clothes or whatever you can carry on the train home with you. But if that’s too much hassle, don’t feel bad about telling them to get rid of everything.

      • Anon

        Alternatively – why is this your headache you are taking on? Sibling is a grownup who can figure it out, hire a mover, rent a storage space, etc.

  15. Anon

    Those of you who moved from a VHCOL city (NYC) to a lower COL city (Chicago), are there things you wish you had considered prior to the move?

    We have family in both cities but have been in NYC for a long time. We moved out to the suburbs to raise our family but are getting frustrated with the exorbitant housing costs, competitive schools, and high stress work environment (maybe exists everywhere, but I would like to think NYC is maybe particularly stressful). We also really aren’t “taking advantage” of what NYC offers anymore, so what’s the point of paying three times as much to live “near” the city. Moving to where I grew up seems increasingly appealing, but maybe I just have a rose tinted glasses version of how I grew up.

    • Anon.

      Depending on the size of new lower COL city, consider the availability of things like childcare, specific schools (e.g. Montessori), extracurricular activities (e.g. ballet schools, sports leagues, swimming classes etc). In smaller places, the offering might be cheaper, but a lot less options may be available and those might be very much sought after by everyone in your socioeconomic demographic.

      • Cb

        Yes, we’re running into that with aftercare at the moment. We left the city for a small town, and while we love it, our family is a bit of an outlier with two working parents and no local family. The options for aftercare are limited and in demand.

      • Anon

        I doubt this is an issue in a city as big as Chicago. She’s not moving to rural Illinois.

        • Anon.

          Could depend on the suburb – some of the places within commuting distance are in rural counties.

    • Anonymous

      I think this is a VERY common move. I left NYC to go to DC at age 34. Everyone in DC says it’s such a high COL but IDK compared to NYC it just . . . isn’t. Sure it isn’t LCOL of course but you just get so much more for your money.

      I’m not sure what your question is but there is a reason that tons and tons of NYC/NY metro area people are leaving yearly going every place from Florida to Charlotte and this was happening even pre pandemic. It’s high tax + there is a certain grind in NYC and even in the surrounding suburbs that just doesn’t exist in other places. For Chicago I’d think about what your commutes will look like if you have jobs where you’ll be in an office; my understanding is that Chicago commutes can be significant though I think you do go back home to a better house in the Chicago suburbs than in the NYC suburbs; property taxes are still high so look at that too but IDK if they’re NY/NJ high. In my dealings with Chicago colleagues my feeling is while it may be high cost of living for the midwest, the grind culture isn’t there; sure people work hard but I also feel like they have/take a lot of downtime whether with family or on the lake or whatever – it isn’t JUST about the next promotion at work, or your kids having to go to the right ivy, or the highest bonus though I may be biased about that because I’m in finance which in NYC is just an obsession.

    • Minnie Beebe

      Without knowing where specifically you are looking, if you’re looking *in* the city, navigating the public schools can be challenging. There are selective enrollment schools (i.e. gifted program, more or less) which require a test to enter, and also sometimes a lottery, but they are scattered around the (rather large) city. Depending on where you ended up living, schooling and associated traffic can really impact your overall quality of life (a school which on paper is 2 mi from home might take 30 min or more to get to, depending on where both are located.). It can be difficult to get everything to line up in an ideal way. But the schools *can be* worth it, especially the Selective Enrollment High Schools– people try to sneak their suburban kids into them regularly for a reason.

      Suburbs are definitely easier, but of course come with a commute if you work downtown. I live in Oak Park which is on the subway line into downtown and we like it. The schools are good, but have their issues (like all districts, honestly.)

      Overall, it’s a much easier way of life compared to NY/Suburbs– and far less expensive.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        +1 to all of this. And there are definitely schools in the suburbs that I bet are every bit the pressure cooker the NY schools can be.

      • Anon

        Cosign all of this from the Chicago suburbs. I would definitely recommend renting or doing a lot of research becaues the school issues & commute can be so complicated. Maybe start renting somewhere that looks good on paper, before purchasing?
        Overall, i think Chicago area is much easier than NYC and you’ll get more for your dollar real estate wise, but it’s still a pretty… complicated? city until you get the hang of it, so the degree-of-difficulty may improve but won’t disappear entirely.

      • Anon

        +1. We chose where to live in Chicago based on it being walking distance to the preschool we wanted our kids to attend with the understanding that our kids would attend the neighborhood-zoned public elementary school (which they now do attend and we love it). High school will be a whole other thing. Schools are complicated and if you, like us, are not willing to drive across town for elementary school, it does limit the choices that on paper seem infinite.

    • Anonymous

      I made a similar move (Brooklyn to DC suburb) but just before we had our first kid. I was surprised to find that things were a lot more affordable than in the NY area but not quite as affordable as we expected. I just took it for granted that we’d be able to live like kings when we left NYC and was surprised that because of the housing that was available was a bit more spacious than what is common in NYC, we could afford less than we’d hoped. I would prepare yourself to not live in the same sort of liberal bubble (if you do now or if that’s important to you) because even though I knew it going in, I still find myself surprised when people I think are similar to me don’t share my political views (which are a huge part of my professional identity and come up a lot). I’d also prepare yourself for a different work schedule; might not be true everywhere but the DC region tends to work earlier hours because of traffic commutes and things are sort of shifted to reflect that. Also, and I say this from humble experience, don’t expect everyone to be impressed by the fact you’re coming from NYC. At best, a lot of people just think NYers are snobby and aren’t that impressed by how high your standards are for pizzas and bagels! :)

    • Anon

      We live in Chicago after spending a decade plus in the east coast. We are from the Midwest but not Chicago. Are you talking about actually moving to the city or to the suburbs of Chicago? One of the big benefits of Chicago is it’s so much easier/cheaper to actually live in the city than in New York – but it is not cheap. And I think the rat race of schools is less stressful than in NYC, but there are similar dynamics (definitely a contingent of competitive private schools, test based admissions to some public schools, de facto segregated schools etc. ) in the city proper. I love living in the city and did not consider the suburbs, but there are a huge range of suburbs here from what I hear, including some with pressure cooker public high schools and a lot of keeping up with the Joneses (but also many that are not like that).

      The thing I wish I had considered is the lack of access to hiking in Chicago. Even in NYC you could get out of town and go hiking pretty easily. Here, it’s a longer drive to less interesting stuff. But that’s my hobby and I still can do it, and being able to have a car and garage easily (though we drive maybe once every two weeks, as we walk/train/bike most places even with two kids) does make that easier in that respect than it was in NYC.

    • Sasha

      I haven’t made this move myself but I’ve lived in Chicago my whole life and have friends who have done NYC -> CHI. I think what a lot of people here, including myself, like about it is the “NYC-lite” experience it provides. As Anon at 11:13 says, the “grind” culture really isn’t there, but you still have the relatively high salaries, diverse career opportunities, culture, food/nightlife scene, etc. Commutes can be long depending on what suburb you live in but the Metra is an excellent commuter rail, all things considered. I love the city and plan to raise a family here–IMO it really is the best of both words, if you can stomach the high property taxes and the winters.

    • Katrinka

      Consider where the professional class and your likely peers live. When I moved “back home” with my family, I lived where I had grown up – but in leaving for a decade to go to law school and build a high-level career, I now didn’t fit into that community. It was a painful process of (1) realizing this and (2) moving to a more suitable community over the course of about three years.

      And, related to the above, the cost to live in the right neighborhood in Chicago might not be all that much less than where you are now.

    • anon

      I lived in Chicago for ten years after growing up on the east coast and have since moved back east.

      Pros:
      – Super low utility costs: My electricity bill was routinely $35/month for a 1,000 foot apartment. There were multiple internet providers who competed on cost and speed, and trash collection was provided by the City of Chicago.
      – Very convenient hub for air travel: Chicago is a hub for both United and Southwest. Getting most places via a direct flight is something I took for granted.
      – Very easy to find a service provider or contractor for virtually anything. Life is in fact just easier there.
      – It feels like a city. There are certain streets that give me flashbacks to midtown Manhattan when I walk home at dusk.

      Cons:
      – It’s shockingly hard to find fresh, good quality produce. There’s also a serious absence of a true upper end grocery store, i.e., no Wegman’s or Balducci’s.
      – The city is just less international in food and interests. Most neighborhoods lack any international cuisine beyond maybe one generic Thai or Americanized Chinese restaurant, and downtown restaurants have a heavy emphasis on steakhouses and Italian.
      – The sports culture is overwhelming at times. If you didn’t go to a Big 10 school and don’t care about college football or MLB, you will run into people who are actually incapable of holding a conversation with you.
      – The crime level is horrifying, moreso for the fact that you will experience it first-hand if you live or work downtown.

  16. Retirement Question!

    Good morning! I know a similar question has been asked here before, but I’m hoping for some insight. I have several 401k’s and a 403b and a Roth IRA (and one of my 401k’s is split into traditional and Roth 401k). At the very least I’d like to consolidate the work retirement accounts. Not sure if a backdoor Roth would be a good option (this past year our income has been low, whereas previously it exceeded a lot of limits), if I can add on to my old Roth IRA, or if I should just consolidate the 401k’s and 403b into one 401k? Any advice would be greatly appreciated- thank you!

    • Anonymous

      A few things to determine:
      Is your AGI within the Roth contribution limit for 2021?

      Does your current 401k accept rollovers? Does it have good low fee investment options or are you better off keeping the old 401ks or rolling them over into an IRA at Vanguard or Fidelity?

    • Anon

      If a Roth account is involved, you will need to beware of the pro rata rule. With this level of complexity I’d get a pro involved; they can structure the rollovers over multiple years to minimize taxes.

      • Anonymous

        Thank you both! There are some good considerations here for me to look into. I appreciate it!!

  17. Anon

    I’ve been dating a guy for about six months and it’s going pretty well. But, he’s not sure if he wants kids (probably doesn’t) and I think I do want kids (though I guess I’m not certain). One of the problems is that I can’t even imagine what the rest of our lives would look like without kids. In my mind, having kids sets the course of your life for the next 20 years and without them…I’m just not sure what life looks like. I’m in my mid-30s so the window is closing for me to have kids. Continuing to date him feels like I’m making the decision to not have kids. How do I decide whether to keep dating him and not have kids or give up an otherwise great guy to try to find a different great guy who does want kids?

    • Anon

      The key question is: how old are you? If you are 25, you have the time to figure it out. If you are 31 or 33, you just have to cut your losses and move on while time is still on your side.

      I dated a lot of great guys (and kissed some frogs) who weren’t right *for me*. This is a big thing to be in agreement on in a long-term relationship and in your early 30s it matters accutely. When 50 year olds or 18 year olds date, it’s not the same now-or-never situation you may be facing.

    • Cat

      what it looks like without them? a happy marriage unstressed by childrearing responsibilities, increased income without the expenses of children, and still getting emotional connections with friends, neighbors, family.

      But if you think you want children, you should move on from this guy!

      • Bonnie Kate

        Your first paragraph is spot on for DH and me – but we both fully chose child-free together. One of us does not imagine a life with kids (or when we do imagine life with kids, it’s to shudder and say “wouldn’t that be rough?” typically said only to each other after an extended period of time with our nieces/nephews, who we love and very happily send home. :D)

        I think you need to separate the questions.
        1. Do you want kids? IF it’s not a h811 yes, proceed to question 2. If it’s a yes, you have your answer- move on.
        2. Imagine your life without kids. If you cannot do this, or it feels bad to you – you want kids. Move on.
        3. If you decide you could be happy without kids, then ask yourself if you want to be with great guy.

        I think it’s too much pressure to put on a relationship to make the guy the reason you don’t have kids if you want them. You need to happily make the decision to be child-free yourself, otherwise it’s a recipe for bitterness and hard feelings later. Inevitably life and marriage gets hard at time, and things like this will rear their head now.

        Hugs, I can’t imagine it’s easy to walk away from a great guy. But if you don’t want the same kind of life, I don’t think you’ll be ultimately happy together.

      • Senior Attorney

        Yes! Having kids is hard-but-worth-it, but don’t underestimate how hard it is. It’s hard on your marriage, it’s hard on your finances, it’s hard on your heart unless you happen to be blessed with the one-in-a-million kid who sails through life.

        Back in my day, in many cases if you couldn’t have kids, you couldn’t have kids (no reproductive technology, adoption was getting harder), and many, many people including my sweet husband and his late wife moved on and had great lives.

        And a marriage without kids, my husband and I often say, is a marriage at a very low Difficulty Level compared to a marriage with kids.

        • anon

          This. We have 2 kids, and I had pregnancy complications with both, and both have mild to moderate neurodiversity (ADHD/ASD) which is requiring a lot of doctor/therapy/OT visits. It is HARD to fit that stuff around 2 working parents (plus work travel), it costs a TON of money, and I have basically no life outside of work + family (getting support services for our kids and getting the school to do what’s in the IEP is basically my other part time job). There is also a lot of sniping/stress in my marriage because of all the demands on our time/energy/money. If we were childless we could probably have both fully retired at 55.
          Also, let me emphasize this again – my kids are very smart, performing above their grade levels, and healthy! If you have kids with ongoing health issues it’s a whole other ball of wax. I would still do it all over again but parenting isn’t easy.

        • anon

          Your last sentence says it all. DH and I enjoy being parents, but we were married for 7 years before having kids and … wow, that was so much simpler and easier.

    • Anon

      Having kids because you’re bored and adrift is not a good reason. It sounds like you’re coasting on societal expectations rather than determining your personal values. I’d do some soul-searching before breaking up, you may end up wanting similar things.

      • Anon

        I think ask if you’re ready to get married to him and think of all of the questions a good premarital counselor would ask, especially re kids. That is a big thing to not be on the same page about and you don’t want 30 years of resentment about giving in on something this big (on both sides) or not following your dream (which you may not get). If you’re not in a rush to get married, still think about that (and what would happen if you had a BC failure or on the other hand, found out you couldn’t have kids).

    • Anon

      I have one child and am very happy with the decision, but I also think I could have had a really happy, fulfilled life without children (which is maybe a rare opinion among parents? I don’t know). If you know you want kids you should probably cut your losses and move on, but if you’re on the fence and think you could be happy without kids, I would be inclined to keep dating him.

      • Senior Attorney

        This. I love my only to pieces, but I am certain I could have been happy without children, too.

        • Anon

          I have two children, but had them late, so I was used to a life as a non-parent. I had a miscarriage with my first pregnancy, so really felt that it could go either way on whether it was in the cards to have a child.

    • anon

      I think part of how you decide whether to keep dating him is to have a conversation with him about this. If you care about him, it’s worth an open discussion.

      FWIW, I get what you’re saying about setting the course of your life. My former husband changed his mind about kids after we were married, and as I was trying to figure out whether we would stay together, one of the things I told him was that I needed to understand how he was thinking about life plans and goals if kids weren’t going to be part of our lives. Having children had always been a goal for me, and I felt like raising my children well was one of the most important things I could do to make the world better, so I needed to think through what life would look like without that – what our goals would be, and how we’d impact the world.

      Ultimately, we couldn’t get to a place where we had a shared vision of a futurelife that we were both happy about, and we divorced. 10 years later, he’s remarried with no kids and I’m remarried with 3.

      • OP

        This is exactly the place I’m at with him. I ask him what life looks like without kids (what do our relationship and life goals become) and he doesn’t really have an answer. Just more travel, more time for hobbies, etc. I just have a hard time seeing those things as enough for a meaningful life.

        • Bonnie Kate

          That’s because those are his answers. They might be meaningful enough for him. You need to figure out if YOU can make a meaningful life without children. Then you can figure out if you want to do that meaningful life with him.

          It seems to me you’re asking him to envision meaning for your life without kids. I very much encourage you to make a meaningful life that includes, but is not defined, by anyone else.

        • Anon

          As a childfree person, I can tell you there is far more to life without kids than the things your boyfriend mentions. For example, a relationship with my husband that is closer in different ways than it probably would have been, no personal physical risk from going through childbirth, time to really drill down on your career and take it to unimagined heights, time for a second career if you want one (aka “leveling up”), time for very rewarding volunteer work, so many many things besides “hobbies.” I would suggest he hasn’t thought much about it.

    • NYCer

      Personally, if I were in my mid 30s and thought I might want kids, I would not continue to date someone who does not want kids.

      • Anonymous

        +1. I would also ask yourself how you would feel if you dated him for five years and then broke up and were single and not able to have kids at that point. If that sounds acceptable on the kid front, then go for it, but if it doesn’t, I would part ways.

    • Anon

      IMHO, when you’re in your 30s and dating a man who says that he “isn’t sure” if he wants kids or “someday” wants kids, it’s best to translate that as “will make up his mind when it’s too late for you.” I’m not saying he doesn’t want kids, just that it won’t be a priority for him until it’s realistically too late for you.

      That said, the advice above re: considering what YOU want in life is good. The people I know who are the happiest parents are those who really wanted to be parents, and those who are unhappy are the ones following The Script and are angry that it’s harder than they expected.

        • Anon

          That, too. Meeting the right person doesn’t change a childfree person into someone who wants to be a parent; however, a fence-sitter might turn into someone who wants kids.

          Either way, “not sure” should read as “not happening.”

    • Anon

      If you can swing it financially, look in to freezing your eggs. It’s a fairly easy, though not inexpensive process. I did it in early 2021. Sounds like both of you are on the fence but leaning in opposite directions. Fortunately for him, he has more time to decide while you don’t. I think freezing your eggs and knowing your AMH levels will help you make this decision. For me, it made me realize I’m truly ok with not having kids at all.

    • Anonymous

      Do you actually want kids or do you just want to fit in? Take a hard look at what kids would mean to your body, finances, relationship, retirement, lifestyle, etc and decide if thats what you really want. Personally I can’t stomach bringing a child onto a dying planet, I’m not special and I haven’t lied to myself that any future offspring would be (the number of therapists who have asked me ‘what if your kid cures cancer’ is alarming). It’s important to sort this out without allowing social pressures to impact you.

      • OP

        Honestly, part of me worries that I want kids to fit in (at least as part of the reason). My friends with kids are all doing their own things and I feel like I don’t fit into their lives anymore. Like, there just isn’t a place for me now that their priorities are their kids. I feel like if I had kids, I’d be back part of my friend group and a bigger community of women/mom’s. That’s obviously not a reason to have kids. I guess I’m just having a hard time untangling how much that feeling of wanting to fit in is contributing to me wanting kids.

        • anon

          Your friendships are going to shift regardless of whether you’re a parent or not. Unless you have kids of similar ages, you aren’t necessarily going to be parenting side-by-side with your friends. And, I will say that mom friendships can be wonderful but also get complicated if you parent differently, if your kids have vastly different needs and personalities, etc. I don’t deny that it seems like the whole world is Club Motherhood, but I promise you that doesn’t reflect reality. Moms aren’t getting together all the time without you, no matter how it seems on social media. Maintaining friendships when you have young kids is really, really hard. You just don’t have much mental or emotional bandwidth at times.

          Have kids because you value raising a family and are willing to do what it takes to raise solid, stable adults. Have kids because you want to grow a little person’s character and meet them where they’re at. Don’t have kids because family vacations and soccer weekends seem fun. I mean, they are and they can be, but that’s not the ultimate point of parenting.

        • Bonnie Kate

          Mm yep untangle that thread a little more OP. There are a lot of ways to make meaningful relationships and friendships without kids. You can also have very close relationships with people who have kids, especially if you give them some grace during the early years – especially with text messages, makes it so much easier. My best friend and I are closer than ever since she had her first kid 9 years ago.

          But also, there are a lot of other ways to find community. And those ways are cheaper and easier and way more of a sure thing to actually making friends and community, then having kids to try and fit in with parents.

    • Anon

      How old is he, OP? Risk also is he doesn’t want kids now, but decides he does later and still has options you will not.

    • Anon

      I actually know what you mean. I have a wonderful kid whom I love but sometimes parenting is just rough, and I will fantasize about living alone in a very neat, minimalist, quiet studio apartment. But I never get that far (ie more than the decor and a weekend lol) in that fantasy because to me, I cannot imagine a meaningful, interesting life without my kid. A have many friends and a sibling who are happily child free and their lives seem amazing for them — but not for me. Perhaps because I live in NYC, being a child free adult doesn’t seem that strange, nor does having kids feel like a default.

      I think it’s ok to say you imagine yourself with kids in the future! Neither having kids nor not having them is mandatory. Either one is a good life choice for some people but not for others. I would definitely do some soul searching and break up with the guy ASAP if this is a deal breaker.

    • Anon

      There are lots of things to do with your life if you don’t have kids. My kid-free friends travel, they have more time and energy to put into their careers, they get season tickets to the opera, symphony, baseball team, etc. without having to worry about childcare. I really wanted kids and I had one but now, looking back, I can see we could have had a very rich and fulfilling life without having a child.

      If you’re mid-thirties and you want kids, unfortunately, biology is a factor here and you need to make some decisions sooner rather than later. If you feel like it’s “too soon” still, after six months, to have the “future planning” conversation, this may be hard. But your boyfriend can have his own biological children in his fifties, if he wants. You likely cannot. So I would (in a casual way, if possible) bring up that you want kids and see what he says. If he’s an “absolutely no kids ever” person, and you really do feel like you want them (and don’t feel like you’re stuck in that mindset because of societal or familial expectations) – then unfortunately, you have to move on. I know one woman who wanted kids and didn’t have them because she married a guy who had already had one, and didn’t want another. She has major regrets and is pretty unhappy. A totally different scenario from the people I know who knew they didn’t want kids and didn’t have them.

    • anon

      There is a wonderful piece written by Cheryl Strayed called: Dear Sugar, The Rumpus Advice Column #71: The Ghost Ship That Didn’t Carry Us. It’s easy to find on G**gle. Can’t recommend that enough for what you are going through.

    • anon

      I have kids. There was a time, however, where I could’ve gone either way, and I suspect DH could’ve, too. If I didn’t have kids, this is what I’d be doing, in no particular order: More volunteering. Travel. Enjoying life without so many responsibilities. Letting the career chips fall where they may, with less pressure to save for college, pay for daycare, etc. Sleeping in (that has thankfully returned with older kids). Doing more in my community, both in terms of entertainment and giving back. Driving a cute car instead of a minivan, ha. That would be a fulfilling life! With kids, my life is plenty fulfilling, but it’s undoubtedly kid-centered. Whatever you do, do not do not do not have kids with someone who isn’t 100% enthusiastic about the idea. It will not end well for anyone.

      • Anon

        +1 to the last line. When DH and I were dating in our mid/late 20’s, I was 100% sure on kids, and he was a no/fence sitter. He eventually moved on to “Let’s have 1 and then see if we want more.”

        We have 2 kids, 1 semi-planned, 1 unexpected. It has taken a ton of time and therapy for me to come to not take personally DH’s resentment that flares up from time to time (usually when he’s going through a depressive episode) about life “looking different”. He adores our kids, but I firmly think that he’s just not built to take on as much of the parenting as me, at least during these younger years.

        I sometimes imagine if I had a more enthusiastic partner in parenting (and a partner that didn’t work crazy BigLaw hours) if things would look differently than they do for us when he’s in a depressive mood.

    • SMC-San Diego

      I spend years dating someone who was ambivalent on kids, broke up for many reasons (including the kid issue) and went on to have a kid on my own via donor insemination. I could not and cannot imagine my life without having a child (although finances, time and the fact that my kid is basically perfect meant I only have the one). Having a child was much more important to me than being married, being professionally successful or rich (although I do OK), and I structured my life accordingly. If I had been unable to have a child, it would have been the greatest tragedy of my life (not necessarily a bio child; I was certainly open to adoption).

      So – Do you want to have children? That is the question. Not what life looks like without them; not what some man you have been dating for 6 months might or might not want now or in the future; not whether other people love their lives with or without children. Do you want to parent another human being? Do you want to love someone absolutely and without condition? Are you prepared to sacrifice what you will have to give up and do it gladly? If yes – then break up with this guy and start seriously looking for someone who wants kids (and that means finding out during the first few dates) or explore having them on your own. If no – then please do not have children because that is what society tells you to do.

      And by the way – ex went on to marry a lovely women 8 years younger than me (and him) and had 2 kids. “I do not know” equaled “Not now” or maybe “Not with you” to him – which is quite common!

    • Anon

      I was you, although we had discussed having kids from day 1, and he kind of leaned out rather than in to the idea as the relationship progressed. I was crazy in love but ended things because I was clear on wanting kids. I chose to become a single mother two years later (tick tick) and then ended up married to a great guy who embraced my kid. Parenting has not been easy, but I would not have missed it for the world, and I am so happy that I was strong enough to leave all those years ago.

  18. TDS

    Need a wedding guest dress — anyone feel like doing some vicarious shopping? A cocktail dress for an NYC spring wedding in the evening — Would prefer some sort of sleeves/ability to wear a regular bra, and like to wear blue/green/purple/gold/black.

    I actually haven’t been to an event like this so any advice regarding formality, appropriate wraps/jackets, or shoes is appreciated. Would wearing tights with a sparkly dress be a misstep? Better to err on the side of evening-wear or okay to choose a floral dress? Little black dress A-OK? Does searching cocktail dresses at Nordstrom/Lord and Taylor give me the correct impression about what people actually wear in real life?

    Thanks for helping a girl out!!

  19. Anon

    Has anyone here ever done a TED talk or a TED-style talk? I’ve been invited by a former colleague to deliver a 15-minute presentation in an event he’s hosting that is going to be like a TEDx event but not branded or sanctioned. It’s going to draw a wide range of professionals who may not have experience or expertise in the profession he and I share. He suggested that I talk about some of the work I’ve done in my area of expertise, but cautioned that not everyone will be well-versed in the basics and so I will need to keep the topic simple and straightforward. He sent me links to some talks he thought were good and well-structured. It seems like the ones that he feels like are successful are the ones where A. the topic is really, really condensed and (IMO) “dumbed down” to appeal to a mass audience and B. where the presenter has some kind of personal story to tell that relates back to the topic. I definitely have a ton of stories but not sure I can boil down the basics of what I’m presenting to a lay audience. I am really good at presenting things to audiences of my fellow professionals who know the basics already, but I’m struggling with how I’m going to get my point across to people who don’t know the basic terminology, philosophies, etc. I know we have people here who speak at conferences and other events so would love any advice. I really want to do the event, and additionally I am getting invited to speak at events more frequently (which I like as it generally leads to interesting professional opportunities). This is something I would like to get good at.

    • Bonnie Kate

      An industry colleague once told me that I had a knack for presenting complicated technical subjects in a very easy to understand way, and that’s one of the best compliments I’ve ever received about speaking.A different time a listener approached me after a presentation and told me he learned more in 15 minutes of listening to me than he had in 20 years of working with the system I was presenting on. That is always my goal – making complicated topics approachable and easy to understand. Here’s some of what I do.

      *drop any jargon, and when you have to use jargon explain what you mean.
      *I use lots of analogies within the same universe. For example, I was explaining a system and I gave all the different parts of the system personified roles (one is the “doer” one is the “spokesperson” etc). However keeping them within one genre of analogies keeps the talk consistent and easy to follow.
      *Do not get distracted by all of the shoot off…all the things that can possibly happen, or happened one time but not most of the time, etc. I feel like a lot of presenters think they’re demonstrating their great knowledge when they tell all of the random one off abnormalities, when that just ends up confusing the presentation and making those abnormalities seem much more common than they are. Especially for this presentation, the exceptions should be left out.

      Without knowing your expertise at all, if I were you, I would pick one part of my expertise that is really specific, narrow down my stories to 1-3 connected stories, and tell the stories to illustrate the point.

      An idea on an intro to start “I’m going to tell you a story about three women….” that is a presentation that I am going to keep listening to.

      Also, I once gave a great presentation on chemical stoichiometry to a complete lay audience, and made it applicable to their lives through an analogous system. That was really random, but it randomly worked! I completely believe that any topic can be interesting to a lay audience if framed right. You can do it!

    • Anon

      I’ve done a TEDx talk, though not about my profession. I would say TED-style events focus on being entertaining first and informative second–that’s what made them so popular in the first place. Without knowing your topic it’s hard to give any concrete examples but I would narrow in on one very specific part of your area of expertise and I would stick with something very basic in terms of complexity/add some storytelling elements to it. I think of TED talks as a way to get people interested in a certain topic rather than teach them all they need to know about it. Also, TED and related events have been around for so long I’m sure there are lots of resources out there if you search for “how to write a TED talk.”

    • Anonymous

      I despise the TED talk style. So formulaic and the tone is always smug and condescending. “I have discovered this truth that changes everything!”

      That said, for many audiences you do need to pare it down to the essentials and use stories or analogies to help get your point across. The key to a successful presentation is to put yourself in the shoes of the audience. What do they already know? What need can you fulfill by giving them information? My job involves explaining complicated statistical models to people who went to law school and are afraid of math, but who need to be convinced that I am an expert and did everything “right.” I do this by telling them the name of the model I chose and why I chose it in plain English (e.g., “I used what’s called a survival model because it compensates for the fact that we couldn’t observe all of the people in the sample for the same amount of time”), then showing them a graph that visualizes the results.

    • Anon

      Thanks to everyone for the advice! I think I was getting stuck by not having a narrow enough topic and all of these comments gave me some good things to consider.

  20. Minnie Beebe

    Looking for travel guidance! I’m considering taking my 11-yo son on a trip this summer, just us. I was considering Scotland, specifically Edinburgh and Scottish Highlands (for some hiking)– can anyone recommend some must-do’s? Good hikes (Ben Nevis will be too much for us, looking for day hikes)? Should I rent a car or can we get by with trains/uber? I went to Scotland with a school group after 8th grade but haven’t been since. We’d probably try to be there for a week, more or less, in early August (and does Scotland shut down like Europe does??)

    • Ribena

      Ahahaha. Edinburgh does not shut down in August. It hosts the world’s biggest arts festival. Don’t come in August unless you want to pay 3x as much for your hotel room and find everything packed solid.

      • CB

        Haha, seconding this. Unless you want to come the last week of July and cat sit for us :) they make these great little hiking books for Edinburgh and the Lothians which could serve as some good inspiration.

      • Anonymous Canadian

        With respect, I disagree with this. Speaking from experience, an 11 year old is big enough to carry his own kit. Accordingly, you can get by with trains/ubers/taxis no problem – in a pinch you can bus/hire a driver if you are going someplace the train doesn’t reach. In fact, transport (trains especially) are at least half the fun of travelling with kids that age. I recommend Inverness and Culloden in addition to Edinburgh. My sister would recommend St. Andrew’s. There is tons of great day-hiking in Scotland.

        Now I wish my two grownups were that age again with a trip to the UK on the horizon. Enjoy!!

    • Anon

      Went to Scotland a few summers ago. The highlight by far was going to the Highland Games. It was in a smaller town (Luss). Great for both you and your son.

    • Ness

      If you want to hike rent a car if you dont you can be based in Edinburgh and do day trips organized or by train. But driving in the Highlands has been one of the best experiences of my life. You could stop for a walk in a were and it will be amazing.
      I was a week and the loveliest places were Stirling, Glencoe valley , Loch Lomond, Oban, Isle of Skye and the Cairngorms. Also I loved the Inveraray Castle Gardens and St Andrews.
      We organized it with the visit Scotland website and they do everything for us (flights, car, B&B) https://www.visitscotland.com/holidays-breaks/family/
      Our mistake was to try to see so much in a week. If I would go again I will chose a national park (or two) and stay around there.
      (and yes, Edinburgh high season is August due the teather festival, but you can sleep nearby)

    • A

      Scotland is magnificent! Glen Coe, Cairngorms, Loch Lomond
      Spend 1 day in Edinburgh also.

  21. Anon

    I am jet-lagged and it’s gray and rainy in my part of the Midwest and I just want to crawl back into bed.

  22. Anon

    I posted yesterday asking for advice for my brother working at USPS. I just want to say thank you to all of you who took the time to respond.

  23. anon

    I just got prescribed anti-depressants for the first time. I’m 43 and have never taken anti-depressants or any kind of daily medication (I last took birth control when I was 24). I’m relieved to finally be getting help for the intense rage/anger I feel almost daily, but I’m also nervous. Will I be taking this medicine for the rest of my life? How will I know if it’s ok to stop? What if taking medication prevents me from knowing if I can stop? I know so many people do this and it sounds like it can be positively life changing, but I’m still scared. Did anyone else feel like this?

    • Cornellian

      Although you definitely need to be careful to not drop medication quickly, it might be helpful for you to think about it as a temporary help. While it’s helping you, you may have more time or energy to focus on building up other coping mechanisms, relationships, etc that may one day allow you to decrease or stop taking your medication. If you’re feeling calmer and centered, it may be easier to build an exercise habit, adjust your diet, incorporate meditation, or whatever is needed.

      But there’s also no shame in taking medication forever if needed! Don’t be afraid to tell your doctor if yours isn’t working for you, or ask for genetic testing to see what dr*gs are most likely to work for you. It can be trial and error for sure.

    • Anonymous

      What kind of antidepressant are you taking? I have taken a couple different ones and have fairly easily weaned off of them when I decided I wanted to try going off of them. It has never been a huge ordeal to stop them, but I have only been on SSRIs and Welbutrin. I know SNRIs can be a different story.

      Antidepressants changed my life dramatically for the better and the only thing I regret is not starting them sooner. The only downside for me is the common side effect to “gardening” to use the old euphemism here. Don’t be afraid to try a couple different options if the first one you try doesn’t work well for you!

  24. Anon

    Anxiety….Ive always suspected Im depressed and experience more anxiety than I should. But alwaus manageable. My brother has been encouraging me to see a therapist to talk about recent family events. In January I spent some time looking on the insurance site for therapists taking new patients, nothing came of it.

    Last week I felt run down after visiting family. Friday night I start experiencing these instense and strahe sensations that had me searching for symptoms of hearattack and stroke in women. Chest tightness, brain flips and zaps, tingling.Saturday was a repeat of Friday night, but iI was able to eventually fall asleep. Sunday night was the same but things felt more intense. My best friend drove me to the ER at 130 am after I called a nurse line.
    I feel kind of silly going to the ER for something like this l…. They sent me home with a shot to help me sleep and some Ativan. Im waiting to hear back from several therapists on making initial appointments

    Anon vent because for some reason i dont want anyone to know besides the friend that drove me…

    Ive mever had anxiety manifest in this way before and i cant pick out a particular trigger for it to have happened like this.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s nothing to feel silly about at all. There is so, so much going on right now that even barely noticeable things can trigger anxiety/panic attacks. I hope you’re able to get in to a doc soon.

    • Anon

      I recently had my first ever panic attack in a work meeting. Like you, I didn’t have a particular trigger, I was just sitting checking some emails after lunch and my heart started racing, I got lightheaded and started getting panicky/dread-filled thoughts that I was dying. It’s frustrating too because I’ve been in therapy for a year and feel like overall my anxiety is in a better place than it was before, but apparently it’s manifesting differently in some respects.

      All that is to say I have no advice but I’ve been going through something similar, so solidarity and sending you good thoughts.

      • Anon

        Op Anon here, if they are possible symptoms of covid, there is a very low chance of that this is Covid, in this case. I highly doubt the ER I went to would confuse the two….

    • anon

      There might be a hormonal component. My best friend had something similar and though it’s hard to identify the trigger for sure, it seems to be at least partly perimenopausal.

    • Cornellian

      I’ve used crowdstreet and yieldstreet. I use cash for yieldstreet and my SD IRA for crowdstreet. The SD IRA-Crowdstreet process is clunky, but I suspect that would be true anywhere. The yieldstreet cash investment experience has been great. It’s not long enough for me to see performance on my long-term investments, but I’ve invested in notes portfolios and 3-9 month debt with yieldstreet and it’s been seamless and returns as advertised.

      No experience with groundfloor, but think it’s a peer to those two???

  26. Kid anon

    Related to the post upthread about dating a guy who is leaning “no kids” when you are leaning “kids”. Similarly, I am dating an awesome guy who is ambivalent about kids. We’ve discussed it, he’s phrased it as “at some point, but not anytime soon”. However, I think if I said I didn’t want kids, he would be OK with that too. He is 30, I am 27. I definitely want the option to have kids to be firmly and enthusiastically on the table (I want them in my 30s right now but who knows what the world will look like in a few years….). I have a lot of anxiety about this–I have no reason not to trust him, but the possibility of him switching it up and saying “no kids” once we’re married and ready to try haunts me. I’m a very neurotic person about the future in general so some of this is to be expected, but I’m not sure whether this is normal for most men or a major incompatibility I shouldn’t be ignoring. 

    • Anon

      Have you talked to him?

      I’m sure he views 30 as still pretty young and that he has time to decide (and he’s not necessarily wrong). I’m not sure what his circumstances are but if he’s still figuring out life like a lot of people are at 30 (career, house, savings, etc) then maybe he just doesn’t feel ready right now but that doesn’t mean never.

    • Anon

      I feel you as a fellow neurotic, relationship-obsesser. From what you’ve described above, it sounds like a non-issue. He wants kids at some point, but not now. You want kids at some point, but not now. There is always the possibility of anyone changing their mind or deciding that they want a different life. That’s built into relationships and not a factor of this guy’s personality specifically. Practice not-knowing and releasing control.

      BUT, if you feel like he doesn’t actually want kids, it seems worth digging into a bit. Maybe have a follow up conversation asking about his enthusiasm levels around it and try to see if there is compatibility around the extent to which you both value the possibility.

    • Cat

      So at 30 “not anytime soon” to me says he’s not really enthusiastic about the idea at all.

      • anon

        Maybe, maybe not. I do think guys tend to be oblivious about the timing of having kids. Fertility is not a driving pressure that they feel (as it relates to age), unfortunately. I would be digging into conversations about when having kids would be on the table. After a few years of marriage? Sooner? Later? Unfortunately, you may have to gently prod him into at least thinking about these things.

      • Anon

        +1. I know men have different biology than women and don’t have the same time pressure in terms of ability to conceive, but there are still lots of drawbacks to having kids late and being 60+ when they leave home. The men I know who wanted kids (including my husband) would not have answered this question this way at 30. At 25, yes. But 30 is a milestone for men as well as women and it sounds to me like he doesn’t really want kids.

      • Anon

        My partner is 39 and really wants kids. We met when we were 35 and 37 — I already have a kid from a prior marriage. At 30 he would have said “not anytime soon” — he had a lot of maturing still to do at that age, and didn’t get to wanting to have a serious relationship and kids until ~34-35.

        • Anon

          Yeah, my spouse loves being a dad. It’s his favorite thing. In his first marriage (age 30-32), he never even thought to discuss it because it was a big shrug for him at the time. When we met when he was 33, I said kids were a part of the future I envisioned and he was a tepid “Okay.” Wasn’t until he was ~36 that he said some variation on “The next and right step in my life is fatherhood.” Sometimes I wonder if “Yeah but not anytime soon” is a stall tactic for what feels like a very Status of The Relationship question. Only way to know is to address it more directly and lay out where you stand and your fears.

      • Anonymous

        I disagree. I know a lot of guys (especially in NYC) who would have thought of themselves as teen dads if they had a kid at 30 but who lined up to have kids when they hit 35. That said, I wouldn’t wait around for a man to decide if you’re already decided.

        • NYCer

          +1. Not any time soon could easily mean 5 years from now. Having a first kid at 32 and 35 would be totally normal ages in my circle (and honestly, even maybe on the younger end).

      • Anon

        Concur. I’m theoretically a “success story” – conceived extremely easily (first month TTW, not even TTC) at almost-40, and had a very healthy pregnancy. I would not recommend that route unless you really need to. Pregnancy is exhausting and worse when you’re older. Postpartum healing takes forever when you’re older. Sleepless nights are so much worse than in your twenties. I have more coping skills and abilities to manage my time, but far less energy, so it’s a net negative from my early 30s.

        • Cornellian

          I’m starting to accept this about myself too. I got pregnant with my first at 29 and had him at 30, and am now 35 pregnant with my second. It feels SO MUCH HARDER, even though I was working 80 hour BigLaw weeks then. I am spending energy raising my first kid, of course, but it’s really the physical differences that are getting me, and he’s frankly a pretty well-behaved kid as a rule.

          I had a family friend who had hers at ~17-18, mid 20s, and then 40, and she said even the jump from 17 to 24 was so huge in terms of the toll on her body, even if the pregnancies don’t have actual worse outcomes.

        • Anon

          What does TTW mean? I’ve heard TTC (trying to conceive) and TWW (two week weight) but never TTW.

        • Anonymous

          Counterpoint, I had full term pregnancies at 32 and 39 and did not find the pregnancy or delivery at 39 any harder. My theory is that a lot of women think pregnancy is hard at older ages because when they’re older it’s their second or third pregnancy and they’re pregnant while parenting one or more toddlers or preschoolers, and that’s what’s really exhausting. For a first pregnancy or a pregnancy where the existing child(ren) are already in elementary school, I know many women who did not find pregnancy at 35+ difficult or exhausting.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        This. Men obviously have the biological benefit of deferring their decision, but I’ve seen way too many couples in this situation where the woman wanted kids and the man’s “not now” turned into delaying until it wasn’t possible and then an eventual breakup or major resentment.

        If you see marriage in your future, I would have a very explicit conversation about this. “I want kids, and not having them is a dealbreaker for me. When you say ‘not now’, what’s your actual timeline?”. Go from there. Obviously there are no guarantees in life, but it’s much fairer to both of you to be clear about what you each want.

      • Anon

        My husband at 30 point-blank said “I’m not ready.” Our son was born when he was almost 36. I think a lot of guys still feel really young at 30 – because they can; the biological clock is not ticking for them the way it does for us. I don’t know that OP’s boyfriend saying “maybe someday” at 30 is necessarily an indicator that he’s not invested in having them ever. At 34 my husband was fully invested in trying and went through fertility treatment with me with no complaints. He just wasn’t ready at 30 but within a couple of years, that changed.

    • Bonnie Kate

      How long have you dated? When random stuff about future come up, do you firmly and enthusiastically include kids in the conversation? How does he react to that? I think you need to always be firmly and enthusiastically including kids in conversations about the future – not wishy washy about it – to let him know you want that.

      Or maybe DH and I just talk about this stuff more? I haven’t dated for a long time and never as an established adult, so I’m genuinely curious – doesn’t the future and what you want it to look like come up naturally during conversations? Conversations like – I’d love to someday have this kind of house, live in this kind of neighborhood, take these kind of vacations, put my kids in those kinds of schools, raise my kids with no social media/all the social media, etc.? I feel like those are prime conversations that naturally come up about the future life that you want that are either going to include kids, or not. Maybe that’s not normal dating conversation though?

      • anon

        That seems normal to me, BK. This stuff just naturally came up in conversation between me and DH while dating. And it happened relatively early in the relationship, not as a way to test compatibility but just as a matter of conversation. Do people not do this?

    • Kid anon

      Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses! These all really help.

      I do think it’s a situation where he wants kids in a nebulous sense but is not at the point where he’s feeling a drive to have them. He switched careers in his late 20s so he feels like he has a lot of building to do there before he’s ready for a family. However, I do have a persistent voice in the back of my head that this is something he’s saying to placate me, which could be true, could be false. I’ve brought up my anxiety about this before and he’s told me flat out that he does want kids and he wants them with me. I think it’s something I have to get a firmer answer on to settle some of this anxiety. It means a lot to hear all these different experiences–thank you for sharing them!

      • Bonnie Kate

        Do have the conversation again because you should be able to talk to him about this stuff openly, but if he has “told [you] flat out that he does want kids and he wants them with [you]” I’m not sure how much firmer of an answer you can get than that. It would be smart of you two to generally agree on an approximate timeline, since there is in fact a biological timeline.

      • Cornellian

        I’d set some sort of vague timeline, for sure, to make sure you guys are on the same page. Maybe there’s a list of things each of you wants to get under your belt (him shoring up his career, maybe you want to spend a month traveling South America or max your 401K for three years, or finish that certificate program you’ve been working on). Thinking about what you want to get done can help you come up with a reasonable timeline.

        I’m pregnant with my second (who is my first with my second husband, who was previously childless), and I wish COVID hadn’t made it basically impossible (between his temporary income loss and the risks) to spend a month or two living in Europe with just the one kid. It’s a mild feeling, and I’ll get over, but I think anticipatory regret like that is really common, and something you can try to get ahead of by talking about your pre-child goals.

        • Anonymous

          Babies are surprisingly portable. I would totally try to do the month in Europe before your second child is 1.

  27. Grace Madoka

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