ByKat G Hours Updated
Comments 181 Comments

Weekend Open Thread

Urban Decay Super Saturated High Gloss Lip ColorSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. I have thus far bypassed the “super bright saturated color” lip trend of this summer, mostly because I've been too lazy to go to a Sephora and try stuff on, but the prices are so good at the Sephora sale that just started that I may just indulge online. This Urban Decay gloss stick is normally $20, but is $10 during the sale, and there are lots of great, super saturated colors to choose from. (The rest of the sale is pretty great also: I'm eyeing this CC concealer and this anti-aging sunscreen stick. Prices are up to 75% off, and the sale just started. Pictured: Urban Decay Super-Saturated High Gloss Lip Color (L-all)

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

181 Comments

  2. Two “what’s an appropriate token?” questions.

    1) An alum from my law school was super involved in getting me a job when I moved to her town where I knew no one. I’m moving again and she’s putting me in touch with her contacts in the new city. How do I say thanks? We were total strangers when I cold emailed her, and she just opened her rolodex to help me land the perfect job. She derives great joy from this and it’s something she does for people she takes a liking to.

    2) I spent the weekend with a friend who lives in a popular tourist destination across the country from me. We were good friends a decade ago, but we mostly lost touch and we’ve been working to rekindle the friendship. She’s very quirky and offbeat. I don’t know how to thank her for devoting her weekend to taking me around.

    1. I would write both a thank-you message. For your friend, something handwritten on cute stationary. For the alum, I think email is fine.

      1. How old is the alum? If she’s been out more than 5-10 years, I would definitely do a hand-written note. Frankly, I would personally do a hand-written note for her no matter what, but understand that the trend is toward electronic means.

      2. I can’t believe this handwritten note thing. Personally, if I had devoted an entire weekend to taking someone around, not including planning time, or even helped them find a job!!! I’d think a handwritten note was incredibly inadequate, borderline insulting. Send them a gift certificate for two to a kick-ass restaurant in their area, a great massage at a spiffy spa. Send them a plane ticket to Hawaii. Send them a homemade poundcake, a pound of great chocolate, a handwoven dishtowel. Really, anything special that implies you thought 2mn about them as a person would be appreciated. Send them a note explaining how they inspired you to turn around and do the same for someone else. But this self-worship for your calligraphy is just.. bizarre.

    2. If you treated the weekend friend to meals and such, just a nice note. If not, maybe send flowers or a plant?

      1. Related TJ – a photographer friend has offered to take photos of my baby for us. Exciting, bc her pics are great! What is a nice thank you token?

  3. I feel like someone asked this recently, but I can’t find it in the comments–does anyone have a recommendation for getting professional headshots in DC? This would be mostly for linkedin, so I’d love to not spend much money, but I also don’t know what a standard rate might be for a few shots and light retouching. My friends unfortunately aren’t blessed with photography skills to the point where I’d just find someone with a nice camera and a blue wall!

    1. I’m not in DC, but I just went to one of those cheap family places in a low-end mall. I felt silly wearing a suit while toddlers screamed in the waiting area, and the photos are little overexposed, but for $65, I have the rights to a digital headshot that looks completely professional for LinkedIn purposes.

      1. I should add that in my major southern city, the good photographers were $250+ for headshots. Please. I’m just not spending $250 for LinkedIn.

    2. My husband did his at the Sears portrait studio. And I swear it looks better than mine from a fancy photo for my firm’s website.

    3. arsnovaimages dot com

      The owner is the photographer, and he is a wonderfully nice person who makes you feel at ease and takes the time to go through each picture with you and offer his opinion and what can and can’t be retouched. He was a pleasure to work with – can’t recommend him enough.

    4. In a pinch, the photobooth app on your laptop gives much, much better results than holding your phone at arm’s length.. And can help you fill in the blank till you get Perfect Professional Picture.

  4. Those of you with senior dogs – which glucosamine supplement have you found that works for your pups? Any other joint pain management tips other than meds like rimadyl? My old dog is starting to get a little stiff and sore after swimming, and while I can give him rimadyl on bad days, I’m looking for tips on how to manage it day-to-day as he’s getting older. He already swims to stay active, but doesn’t walk much due to bad paws.

    1. We used Cosequin DS with MSM and it seemed to help. Some of the high end foods (Orijen) also contain glucosamine. I think keeping their weight down and low-impact exercise help too.

    2. I don’t have a dog, but my cat gets Cosequin and it helps him with his bum shoulder.

      1. I have an older cat and use Dasuquin – definitely seems to help cat’s general crotchetiness.

        1. We give my older dog Dasuquin chewies – we buy them on Amazon. They seem to really make a difference in his ability to walk/run and pain level.

      1. Awww I have a 10 year old golden, too. They’re the best :)

        My guy gets Cosequin DS as well.

    4. My dog improved dramatically eating prescription Science Diet JD. I thought it was ridiculously overpriced for essentially supplements added to the food but it works great for her. I volunteer at our shelter so I get it 50% off. Mine also takes 2 Tramadol twice a day plus Caprofen (might not have spelled that right). She’s a 10 year old Rotti/Shep cross.

    6. I used monthly glucosamine shots for my aging cat, and it worked wonders. Leapt about like a kitten the day after getting them. I’m not quite at that point yet, but as soon as I need something chronically I’ll be investigating those for myself (they’re getting pretty standard in France for humans, my older cousin is doing well on them). My vet told me they were standard racehorse treatment, although my cat only got 1ml :-)

  7. What does the hive think about jade bangles in the office? I would really love to add one to my collection but it will become an everyday piece (not meant to be taken off). I work in a business casual enviornment but wonder if it would be too much in addition to my everyday pieces (earrings, thin necklace, gold bangle, watch, wedding rings).

    1. My boss has one (about 3/4in wide) that she purchased in China and wheres almost every day with the same kinds of other pieces that you mentioned. I work in a small law office that sees clients regularly, so YMMV, but clients ask about it regularly and I’ve never thought it looked like too much.

    2. I have a couple of onyx ones that I wear at least once a week without anyone saying anything, so I think a jade bangle would be fine. I will say this: Try to wear an inexpensive bangle about the same size for a week of business on both laptop and desktop PCs. I get frustrated with bracelets and watches when I type, so I wouldn’t get one that’s not meant to be removed.

      1. Excellent advice! I love bracelets, but many cause mechanical problems, apart from annoying noises. If you’re a heavy keyboard user, a necklace or pendant might be a better choice to preserve your wrists and sanity.

    3. I love jade but I get annoyed by bangles for the reasons mentioned by heatherskib so I look out for flexible bracelets with jade on. They’re surprisingly difficult to find (although the Chinese community where I am is very tiny which might explain that)

    4. A caution that a jade bangle may be quite susceptible to being broken in daily wear. There is a traditional belief is that your jade protects you from harm and a piece that cracks while being worn has successfully deflected bad stuff which would have injured you instead. A thick ‘real’ jadeite bangle will be the hardiest (although the most painfully expensive if inadvertently broken) and best to avoid constant clanking against other stuff on your wrist.

  8. Hi ladies! Any tips for finding a new perfume? I’ve been using the same one for a long time and I want something special for my wedding day. Going into a store and smelling tons of perfumes seems overwhelming and difficult–the smells all start blending, it would probably cause a raging headache, etc.. I realize everyone has different preferences and that it’s nearly impossible to describe a scent, so I was wondering how you all found your favorite scent. TIA!

    1. Try the perfume suggestion computer in Sephora. (They’re only in store, not online.) You enter the names of some perfumes you like and it suggests new ones you might like. It’s been pretty good for me.

        1. Likewise, you can usually just walk into a perfume store (I went into a Perfumania) and tell the staff what perfumes you like the most. I was surprised just how great the staff were when I tried that. They immediately knew exactly what type of “scent profile” I liked and were able to throw a few samples my way in that category. They were all exactly what I was looking for.

    2. I found mine by buying one of the Sephora Favorites perfume samplers. It was much easier to try a different scent every day and then exchange the voucher for a full size bottle.

    3. I smelled a bunch at malls and fell in love my first one Mademoiselle.

      The second one I bought on whim because I wanted a keepsake from the city I was visiting, and chose one from a brand from that city and I still love it.

    4. Perfume gives me headaches. Studies I’ve seen suggest that as much as 30% of Americans have allergies to the chemicals in perfumes, air freshness, etc. I’ll get a headache if I share an elevator with you or you come in my office. I finally had to say something to the lovely man that brings mail to my office bc he was giving me daily headaches bc his cologne was noticeable. I HATE standing near women wearing perfume in the subway. No matter how “good” it smells, your perfume is revolting to me like cheap food that will give me a stomach ache if I eat it. Please consider giving it up. And please please never wear enough for your colleagues or people you come into contact with in public to be able to smell it and be impacted by it (ie, wear so little as to defeat the purpose please). Same goes for overly perfumed hair products, etc.

      1. + 1. I have a secretary who smokes and uses only “strong” french perfume and every single time she comes in my office I get a headache. It is so annoying and disruptive. I would prefer the disgusting stench of smoke to her over-perfuming to cover the smoke stench. by like a million times.

        1. She’s probably not trying to cover up – it’s more likely that the smoke has damaged her nose enough that only the strongest smells get through to her brain.

        1. But what if you’re a super special snowflake who needs to world to revolve around you!? How will you function!?

          1. Yes, exactly, what if your desire to smell like a fake bouquet of flowers is more important than the comfort of those around you? How will you function?

      3. Most American perfumes are toxic chemical soups. Try a foreign one, if possible not too modern, and smell the difference organic fragrances can make.
        There was an American soap that used to make my lungs seize up regularly in the 60s, fortunately almost completely fallen into disuse (Cashmere Bouquet). I still retch when I think of it..

  9. Following your post on the morning thread I checked out Judy P tops. I’m also busty and like a V-neck. These look great and versatile — a bit pricey but if they’re good quality and they hold up well I’m okay with that. How is the sizing? The chart on the site is not very helpful. I’m a 38F, :/, usually wear a 12 but sometimes have to size up in tops and jackets because of that.

    And have you tried the V-neck dress from Judy P? Can’t tell if it would be good office choice or too va-va-voomy.

    1. I’ve worn the LBH ones (these seem to be clones and the same company owns Judy P) and they run small. I’m 32C and the S is snug on me, so I usually get a M, which is looser and works better for me for the office. I’d get at least a L if you are 38F. I have 4 (all mediums but for the S wear to the gym or on weekends). I love them. I know some people who have many more than that.

      I can’t say about the dresses, but I have a bit of a tummy and feel like the dresses would be very bodycon on me. Maybe as a slip / layer under a wrap dress?

  10. DH and I are planning a fall weekend getaway to NC. We’re trying to decide between Charlotte, Raleigh, and Asheville. We want to visit a place that has plenty of things to do (indoors and out) and has great restaurants. Which place would you recommend? TIA!

    1. Asheville. Lots of cute B&Bs, plenty to do (Biltmore, hiking, shops, Grove Park Spa), good food and good craft beer scene.

      1. yay! I met a guy from Raleigh who said I looked like a model and wanted to MARRY me in college. I did not date him because I did not want to live there. Fooey!

    4. Asheville. I live in Raleigh, and it’s a perfectly delightful town, but for vacation, you want to go to Asheville.

    5. If you don’t need the mountains, go to Kinston and stay at the bank that’s renovated into a hotel and eat at Chef and the Farmer. If you need more to do than is in Kinston, it’s close to New Bern, which is beyond lovely.

      Asheville’s not bad, but you can’t beat Eastern NC’s charm and rivers and delicious food.

      CLT is a great place to live (and I live there), but for a visit, I’d go someplace else unless you’re scouting it for an eventual move.

      1. We are considering moving to NC in a few years, and we were hoping to combine our vacation with a scouting mission. If you had to choose between Raleigh and Charlotte, what place would you recommend for families? DH and I are in IT/law (inhouse) respectively.

        1. Raleigh/Triangle area over Charlotte, hands down. The traffic….

          Cost of living is a little better in the Triangle, too.

        2. Raleigh. I think it’s a better city and I’m guessing it has a better IT job market, as well. I’ve got several friends here with IT jobs who recently switched jobs and didn’t seem to have much trouble finding new ones.

          1. I agree that RTP is the place if you’re in IP. Raleigh is good for legal jobs as is RTP. Good firms may be in both places. Also good for healthcare / general corporate.

            CLT is good for finance-y things. Not as good for IP. Some healthcare, but no academic medical places like in Durhan/CH.

            Both Raleigh and CLT have good older neighborhoods near downtown. In CLT I use public schools (but might not use all of them), live near uptown (so: smaller more expensive older house), and really like being able to walk to things. YMMV in any city.

    6. Ditto the others: Asheville Asheville Asheville! Charlotte and Raleigh (I’ve lived in both, albeit years ago) are upscale strip malls and cookie cutter houses. I can’t imagine vacationing in either place. They’re somewhere you go for a conference.

      Go to the Biltmore mansion. If you haven’t heard of it, it’s “America’s castle” and absolutely amazing. And I had the best macaroni and cheese of my life at Fig Restaurant, near the Biltmore. The website makes it look a little pretentious, but it’s not at all. And seriously, that mac and cheese is TO DIE FOR.

      1. I agree that Asheville is the best choice for a vacation, far and away… but as a native North Carolinian I’m not on board with “upscale strip malls and cookie cutter houses” and the remainder of your descriptor for Raleigh and Charlotte. Both places have plenty to offer outside the vacation context, so being derogatory isn’t really necessary.

        1. I lived in NC for 14 years. Saying a city is upscale strip malls and cookie cutter houses and a place you go for a conference isn’t derogatory. I wasn’t saying the people aren’t nice and that the cities don’t have some interesting neighborhoods and some good restaurants, just that they’re both very much of the new construction and sprawl like you see in the Atlanta suburbs. Explaining why someone shouldn’t go someplace is just as valuable as explaining why they should go somewhere else.

          1. “just that they’re both very much of the new construction and sprawl like you see in the Atlanta suburbs”

            +1. I live in Atlanta and I don’t understand why people vacation here.

        2. Yeah, that descriptor is inaccurate. Sure, that fits the Charlotte suburbs to a tee, but certainly not its urban areas. Raleigh’s downtown and food scene have undergone major revitalizations over the last few years, plus you’ve got the influence from the Research Triangle/Duke/UNC/NC State. There’s a lot of history and diversity in Raleigh. That said, I’d still pick Asheville for a vacation any day of the week.

          1. For what it’s worth, I live in ATL now and comparing Raleigh to the suburbs of Atlanta is just totally off. They are not equivalent at all. Maybe you’re thinking of Raleigh’s suburbs, or Cary?

    7. Asheville. Asheville is a gem of a weekend vacation spot. NC native here, grew up in Raleigh. It’s a lovely place to live… but lacking in the vacation dept.

    8. Asheville for the fall. Raleigh is a fantastic place to live, but it’s not somewhere to vacation simply because there aren’t very many “attractions.” Same for Charlotte. Spend your time on the parkway and various backroads and you won’t be disappointed. Just be advised that fall is Asheville’s peak tourist season, so be prepared for lots of company!

      On the other hand, if your vacation is happening before the end of October, it’s a great time to see the coast. It’s shoulder season, so everything is much more reasonable and you can have much of the place to yourself. Have fun!

    9. Of the three, without taking other considerations into play, I definitely vote Asheville.

      That said, where are you coming from? I ask, because the drive can be very different between those three if your coming from a border state, and Asheville does not have a great airport. And the flight options are very different for Raleigh and CLT (Raleigh has SW; Charlotte is a US Airways hub). There are great things to do in CLT and Raleigh, as well as plenty of places in between.

      1. For Labor Day, my college friends and i booked an AirBnB close to Asheville that sleeps 13. We’re all driving (two of us w/ kids!) but I’m looking forward to some quiet mountain time, plus beer and BBQ. and gorgeous leaves!

        1. Just so you’re not disappointed when you get there… the leaves won’t have started to turn by Labor Day. That’s still summer. Late September, maybe at the higher elevations, but not that early in September. It’s really more of an October thing.

          1. ugh, okay. well barbeque and beer at least. should i be prepared for cool nights or just warm the whole time?

      2. We’re coming from central Florida, so we will be flying. Raleigh and Charlotte would definitely be easier flightwise, but I’m sure Asheville will be much prettier.

  11. is it worth thinking about Uniglo for cashmere sweater? Or am I better off spending a little more for Everlane?

    1. I have been really impressed with other Uniqlo sweaters – their merino in particular is great. I wouldn’t hesitate to try it.

      1. Cosigning this. I’ve never had pure cashmere from Uniqlo but I’m still wearing a cotton/cashmere blend cardigan that I’ve had for five ears and which look nearly as good as new.

    2. I have 5-10 of the Uniqlo cashmere v necks and the cardigans, and i love them. Haven’t tried everlane, but uniqlo one goes down to around $69 every season and I just throw them in the washing machine.

      The cardigans are a bit long so that’s a bit annoying, but otherwise I love them.

    3. Go with Everlane. My cashmere sweaters from them are thick/soft/don’t pill, etc. My uniglo ones are nowhere near as nice.

  13. My sister in law wears the most fantastic bright pink lipstick. It is Nars lipstick and the color is Schiap. Seriously it looks so fantastic on her. I think I’m going to get it myself since we have very similar coloring but it doesn’t seem to be on sale. Is there a code or something to use?

    1. It’s probably not on sale – most stuff is rarely on sale. Usually just when they’re discontinuing products or clearing out value sets.

    2. Nars doesn’t really go on sale. Try googling for a dupe or just spring for it.

      I will say that I find Nars to be wholly worth the money and that a tube lasts me forever.

    3. Good to know, thanks. I think I’ll just go for it. I really like the other Nars products I have.

      1. Probably not worth waiting for, but Lord and Taylor does Friends and Family sales a few times a year where all beauty products – inc. brands like Nars and Bobby Brown that never go on sale – are 10% off. I always try to stock up if I remember it’s happening.

    4. Lord & Taylor regularly lets you use its coupons at the makeup counter – every once in awhile one will roll around where you get X percent off regular price merchandise, and they will take it down to 10% or so in the cosmetics department.

  14. Hi Paging, I’m here! Just saw your post from this morning’s thread. So nice of you to share the code! Thanks!

    1. Hi! Sorry for the delay. You (and anyone else in DC can get 2 weeks free at classpass.com/dcmail

      Enjoy!

  15. What would you do as a manager if you held a mandatory training session for about 11 people (half joining via videcon in two other offices) and one person didn’t show up until 10 minutes before the end?

    I’m getting hardly any support from my bosses and was told that in the future the recommendation is that I should have waited and called that person after 10 min had gone by…instead I spoke to them afterwards and wrote a memo for their file. Also, this is the second time this person has done this to me.

    1. Put a note in their file, have a talk with them, and give clear guidance as to the consequences of not attending.

    2. Either the training is mandatory or it’s not. If it is, that person didn’t complete the training.

      1. This.

        It’s not your job to babysit adults. If you somehow screwed up – didn’t send an Outlook invite, did not make the time clear, overlapped it with another required meeting – that’s on you. But otherwise, he gets himself to where he needs to be, when he needs to be there.

        1. Thank you both! I sent an invitation saying it was mandatory and mentioned it in a meeting the week before. I was shocked when I was given feedback that I could have handled it better for this person because people forget and sometimes miss email reminders.

          1. An email the day before would not have been too much. Also, you could asked one of the other attendees to text or call him to find out where he was. What was his reason? People DO forget things.

          2. The “second time” is key here. Someone who genuinely forgets is disorganized, perhaps even dysfunctional in general. But twice in a row is not acceptable. Make sure he is not credited with attendance.
            On the other hand, I personally find that a reminder the day before is always beneficial, no matter how pleasant and optional the event :-). I find that going both ways, as an attendee and as an organizer..

  16. My son just got engaged and we expect my my stepdaughter to get engaged later this year, so we will have 2 weddings coming up over the next 2 years. Son won’t get married until the summer of 2017 (he will be 25 then). I expect stepdaughter to get married some time next year (she will be 30). Son’s wedding will be in Southern California and they want to keep it at around 100 (that’s the early thinking). Stepdaughter’s wedding will likely be in NorCal wine country and I have no idea of the possible size.

    What is the common practice on parent contributions to weddings? Eons ago when I was married, it was either the bride’s family who paid or, if they were old enough, working and financially able, the bride and groom paid with help from the bride’s parents.

    I know things are quite different these days but don’t know what to expect as we have 2 weddings for our children coming up. I would love to hear from those of you who have married recently on how it worked out and what your expectations were concerning your parents’ contributions.

    We are SO happy for both of them, excited and very willing to contribute. However, my husband and I are not super wealthy so there will be financial constraints to take into account. I wish we could say the sky’s the limit for both, but that’s just not possible.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    1. I’m not married but I know from a few friends who have been married recently that the parents decide whatever they’re willing to contribute (both sets usually) and then the kids sit down and make a budget based on whatever their parents give them and whatever they want to pay for so they can have the wedding they want.

    2. My parents did not contribute very much to my wedding at all. My dad helped pay for my dress and my mom helped me make some things for the wedding. My in-laws paid for the food. We had a very small wedding when we were still students, however.

      When my sister got married, her husband’s father paid for most of the wedding. He had saved up money for his son to go to college, but he ended up getting a sports scholarship. He (the father) was going to give him that money for a down payment on a house, but my sister’s husband is a police officer and was able to take advantage of a program that did not require a large down payment and so purchased the house before he was married. So his dad gave him that money for the wedding instead. My parents hosted the rehearsal dinner and my mom again helped with crafty things for the wedding.

    3. I’m 1 of 6 kids and my parents decided when my oldest brother got engaged that they were going to give each kid the same amount of money. I knew that was coming, I just didn’t know how much to expect. I just got married last month and both my parents and my husband’s parents contributed (about 1.5 times as much as my parents did). They told us both the amount they wanted to give us really early on in the process so we could use it to budget. We came up with the rest ourselves.

      I think my dad got a little stressed out when I got engaged in the same 9 month period that 2 of my other sisters did. Luckily for him, I went first and we all wound up deciding to get married in different years.

      For what it is worth, in my family, giving the same amount of money to each kid regardless of need was helpful and avoids hurt feelings. Especially since we are all stepfamily. My parents have always been all about treating us equally when it comes to gifts/money.

    4. We paid for ourselves without a dime from the parents. We were only 25, but we had jobs that paid better than theirs, and we wouldn’t have dreamed of asking them. It never even occurred to us to.

    5. I was married last year (at 29). We planned to pay for our wedding on our own (i.e., didn’t ask for or expect contributions), but each set of parents (my divorced parents and my in-laws) decided what they were willing to give and we worked that into our budget. It ended up being:

      My dad $5,000
      My mom $5,000 (divorced)
      My in-laws $5,000 + the flowers (MIL loves flowers and we were going cheap, so she offered to get us a professional!)
      My DH and I $10,000 (included rehearsal dinner, our flights, wedding rings, etc.)

      I appreciated being given $$ so DH and I could budget and determine priorities accordingly, and because no one’s contributions were going to anything specific (other than the flowers), we avoided either set of parents trying to make all the decisions. Also, I imagine if you have financial constraints, as most do, that would be the best route (rather than “we’ll pay for X and Y” and have no incentive for anyone to reign in the costs of X and Y).

      We planned a small wedding of about 60, and ended up with 80. Both my dad and my in-laws asked to add guests (their friends) late in the game. I appreciated that they all offered to pay for the extra guests (we didn’t take them up on it), but would have appreciated it more if they had thought through everyone they wanted to invite at the beginning when we asked!

      1. I think the case of your MIL and the flowers is a really good one. If there’s any aspect of the wedding that’s especially important to my parents, I hope they’ll pay for it.

        As it is, I have the right to marry in a pretty special chapel in the very centre of London thanks to a title my dad has (work related, we’re not aristocracy or anything!) which will carry associated costs due to the lack of low cost reception venues in W1!

    6. I have been married a long time but it never would have dawned on me, or my now-husband, that our parents were “expected” to contribute to our wedding; and we were both fairly broke grad students at that time.
      My parents gave us $750 which paid for the photographer (a family friend so we got a great great deal) and my ILs gave us $1000, which about covered the guests we didn’t know that they insisted on inviting.

      I would sit them down and say, “hey, this is how much we are able to contribute to your wedding. We wanted to let you know right away so you can budget”.

    7. I just got engaged, and while my mom has told me “of course we’ll pay for it” I am planning to sit down with my parents and discuss how much they are willing to contribute (say, $10,000 or $15,000? I’m not sure yet) and then my fiance and I will plan accordingly and fund any extra ourselves.

    8. I got married in my mid-twenties – there’s no way my parents could/would have helped (I’m the oldest of 4 and second to get married) and I never would have asked. My relatively wealthy in-laws – not 1% but 5% probably – are not at all interested in weddings and obsessed with equality between the three siblings down to the last penny, so it was established long before we got married that each kid would get $10k toward their wedding or whatever else they chose to spend it on. We would’ve paid for it ourselves otherwise, but ended up using their money for the entire thing, which was about $7k. And spent the rest of it going to his sister’s destination wedding in Maui 2 months later (sigh).

    9. Totally depends on your family and what you are comfortable with. My sister got married a few years ago, expected my dad to shell out $15,000, and he laughed in her face. She survived.

    10. I recently married. Late 30s, 2nd marriage. My parents offered to contribute financially for the wedding, and I said no thank you. They gave us a large check as a wedding present. My husband’s parents did not offer to help, and we did not expect that they would.

      My parents paid entirely for my 1st wedding, about 15 years ago when I was straight out of college, and my ex’s parents did not offer. My 1st husband asked if they would be willing to assist us and their answer was that that was the bride’s parent’s traditionally pay for the wedding. When their daughter got married 5 years later, they complained non-stop about her fiancé’s parents not offering to help. When my ex pointed out that they did not contribute anything to his wedding, they looked at him blankly and kept complaining. I am grateful they are no longer my in-laws (for many, many reasons separate from the wedding issue).

      My brother is engaged. Also mid-30s, first marriage for him, 2nd for his fiancé. His fiancé’s parents will not be able to assist due to their current financial situation. My parents offered a few thousand dollars for my brother to use for wedding expenses, and they will be on their own for anything above and beyond what my parents offered them. Small town wedding, large guest list.

      1. I should add that we did not expect my current husband’s parents to offer to contribute because of their financial situation, not because of any gender-specific reasoning. They also did not contribute to their younger daughter’s wedding when she got married the year before we did.

    11. Miss Manners often says that etiquette is never about how much money you have. By which she means that the polite, kind thing to do can be done by people who are flat broke or those who are very wealthy, and that etiquette doesn’t require you to go into debt.

      There’s the old-fashioned tradition of paying for your daughter’s wedding, and the newer traditions of paying for all kid’s wedding, and having huge weddings that cost as much as a new Lexus. IMHO, those traditions do not need to be mixed.

      My best advice is to treat the kids equally: figure out how much you can afford, divide by two, and give to each child to use how they see fit. If they want to elope at City Hall, they can use it for a down payment or a honeymoon. If they want 100-person, $30,000 weddings, great – come up with the rest themselves.

    12. My parents did the old fashioned split–they paid for my wedding and my in-laws paid for our rehearsal dinner-substitute.

      I live in the Bay Area, so something to be aware of–wine country weddings are pricey. The venues are all really expensive and often have exclusive caterers (also very very expensive). I’ve been to $80-$100k weddings at vineyards that look like they should’ve cost 1/4 of that.

      If you’re not willing to shell out for that kind of event, encourage her to look elsewhere! There are lots of pretty places nearby that are great, especially if she’s willing to do the ceremony and reception in different places. The Brazilian Room in Berkeley is a treasure (make sure you sign up on 7/1 or soon after for the next year’s bookings–it’s a public property, so they start taking bookings the year before, starting the first day of the fiscal year) and works for both ceremony & reception. The Lake Chalet in Oakland is great for a reception–they’re a restaurant and have a gorgeous private room that’s fantastic for events.

      For your son in LA, check out the Smog Shoppe in Culver City. It’s a really cool venue (they kept the name from the previous business), big enough for ceremony & reception of the size you’re looking for, and don’t have an exclusive caterer. The Equestrian Center in Studio City/Burbank just below Griffith Park also has some really lovely spaces.

      Good luck!

      1. Also in the Bay Area and I agree with all of this. If she really wants a wine country wedding and the budget is tight, perhaps look into some of the public parks in Sonoma or Napa — or even out toward Pleasanton or Livermore’s wine country. I think wineries into Mendocino might be more budget-friendly. The Brazilian Room is truly wonderful and I love Lake Chalet. By Lake Merritt there’s also the gazebo and then the garden court — owned by the City of Oakland, I think, and kind of earthy-wild looking, but maybe that’s what she’d like.

    13. When I got married at 27 my parents paid for the wedding. I was straight out of law school and super in debt. I tried to keep the costs down to be appreciative but my mom insisted on splurging on several things she wanted. My in-laws paid for the rehearsal dinner, so I guess we took very traditional roles. My parents had paid for my sister’s first and second weddings, so I sort of figured they would pay for mine, although I wouldn’t say I “expected” them to, and would have understood if their finances prevented them from doing so at the time.

    14. My husband (only child) and I (oldest of 5) were 23 when we got married and paid for our own wedding, with a few contributions from our parents. His parents contributed around $2,500 for the caterer and my parents contributed around $1,500 for the booze and the officiant’s fee (the reverend at their church which is also where we got married). For perspective, our total wedding budget was $10,000, and we were very, very grateful for their help.

    15. In addition to considering how much money to offer to each kid, consider the guest lists of the weddings as something you can do to help reduce costs.
      My in-laws tried to contribute roughly the same items for each of their sons’ weddings (3) instead of necessarily an amount. They offered to pay for the rehearsal dinner, the bar and the flowers. As my wedding was considerably larger than the other son’s, I know the amount spent for the bar/flowers was more for mine, but my MIL was happy to be able to invite more of her friends to the event itself. I’m sure my in-laws spent considerably more on their daughter’s wedding but no one would begrudge the difference because they had been so generous and incredibly easy to work with (which is priceless but so appreciated) for all of the daughters-in-law.
      I’ve known of many upset friends (and upset parents) when their future MILs demand a large percent of the guest-list, but don’t contribute very much to the event. If you have a smaller budget to offer, try to keep your expectations for guests in line with it.

    16. I’m recently engaged and we are planning a wedding for next fall. My parents (divorced) are each contributing about 5k and my FI and I will be paying for the remainder of our wedding costs. His parents will either pay for the honeymoon or write a check toward a down payment.

    18. I got married in my early 20s. I’m from the South, and my parents/DH’s parents did the traditional split: bride’s parents pay for wedding, groom’s parents pay for rehearsal dinner. My parents sat me down and gave me an overall budget, along with a general breakdown of how they arrived at the total budget (ie: dress, flowers, cake, venue, etc.). I kind of always expected that they would help pay for my wedding largely because that had been brought up on occasion throughout my life. I had no idea how much a wedding should cost, but my mom was a wedding planner, so the budget they gave me was realistic.

      Also, my mom and DH’s mom REALLY wanted us to have a big wedding with EVERYONE, so they both felt pretty strongly about contributing financially to the day because many of the guests were their friends. Knowing that DH and I tend to be very practical, it was actually a bit of a joke that we HAD to spend the budget on a traditional wedding vs. eloping and buying a house. I always assumed I would have a big wedding due to general traditional expectations from my parents, large extended family, and large church growing up. My BIL and SIL also had the traditional split and also had a big wedding (see reasons above). My parents also paid for my sister’s wedding, and his parents paid for the rehearsal dinner. Different states, but same Southern tradition, same big weddings. Nothing ridiculously fancy, but they wanted to invite every. single. person… and cake for that many people adds up quickly.

      However, I second all the commenters to just give them equal amounts if there’s no “tradition” you’ve been discussing over the years. I didn’t feel entitled to a specific amount, and was blown away by the generosity of both sets of parents. So, despite my “expectation” that there would be help because my parents always told me they would help, I came in with gratitude for whatever amount they wanted to give.

    19. My sister got married a few years ago and I got married a year ago. We are on the East Coast. My parents paid 100% for my sister who didn’t have the means to pay for her own wedding. I let my parents pay for about $15k and paid about $15k myself (I could have paid for my whole wedding but didn’t want to keep my parents from being able to say that they were hosting the event and they have the money). My parents disn’t like the costs of each wedding (no one does bc the cost is stupid), but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if a public wedding and reception is something you wanted and there are minimum costs that are hard to avoid. I never felt like my parents should have given me the same as my sister because we were in different financial positions (and she was much younger at the time of her wedding). Unless your kids are immature, I’d think they can live with you giving different amounts based on circumstances (their new spouses should stay out of it except to say thank you). I don’t think Grooms parents pay unless there’s no one else that can afford to pay and they want to. Grooms parents do pay for the rehearsal dinner which can be expensive. I think these days it’s becoming customary to invite all guests to the rehearsal diner (or all out of town guests plus wedding party and family), so you can be in the $4-10k price range easily for that dinner.

    20. I’m recently married (age 27) and have plenty of friends who are recently married or wedding planning right now. In my circle, it seems that the days of parents funding weddings completely are over (granted, a lot of my friends have married later or have married older, more established partners and have had pretty pricey weddings). A lot of times, parents offer a set amount that makes up part of the budget and couples can use it how they wish. My husband and I paid for our entire wedding; my mom gave us $7.5k but we opted to use that to throw a “welcome dinner” for our guests the night before. She also gave the exact same amount to my sister, who got married 18 months prior and had a much smaller wedding, where that almost covered the entire cost (sometimes I think she did it right :) ).

      We also had a wine-country wedding that ran us roughly $60k for 65 guests. Did it look expensive? Yes. Did it look like we spent almost $1k per guest on our event? Probably not. Napa Valley is gorgeous and our wedding was stunning, but wine country is freakishly expensive. Your money will not go far there (we had to up our initial budget by $10k to even have something that remotely resembled the wedding we wanted to have). It’s insane but it is what it is.

    21. I got married last year. I’m in my mid-20s and 1 year out of law school in BigLaw while husband is early 30s and 10 years into his career. Our weddings cost, excluding rings and honeymoon, around$30K. We paid for it ourselves from savings but ended up recouping about half from gifts (which then went back into the bank to replenish savings). My in-laws paid for the rehearsal dinner and my mom paid for my dress. I’m not sure how much the dinner was but I would guess that it cost about as much as my dress (around $1300). My in-laws also gave $2000 as a gift at the wedding (again went into savings).

      We were pleasantly surprised my our parents’ generosity even though we’re both only children. As functioning working adults, we had no reason to expect any sort of monetary contribution from our parents. In fact, we make more than both sets of parents and would have rather they kept the money to help them in their retirement. We never had any sort of budget conversation with them and operated as though we would be paying for the entire thing.

    22. I got married last month. In initial wedding planning stage, my MIL insisted girl’s side pays for the entire wedding. I flipped out at my fiance saying we are going to be a modern egalitarian couple and I won’t tolerate this traditional gender based split. He agreed to pay for 40 percent of the cost on his own. My parents are fairly old and I did not want them to dip into their retirement savings to pay for the wedding. They already paid full out of state tuition for college so I could graduate debt free. I am forever grateful to them for giving me that head start in life. I just turned 30 and had enough savings to pay for the wedding on my own.

      In the end, I ended up footing 75% of the wedding expenses (excluding gifts for groom’s family, my own clothes and gold jewelry which is must for Indian wedding) when I only had 20% of the guests from my side. I am so infuriated at my in-laws and partly at my husband for treating me like a cash cow in funding their dear son’s grand wedding. I had no control over guest count, food menu or anything. They DEMANDED gifts for so many of their extended family members (cost us well around 2-3K) when my own mom/dad/brother got nothing in exchange!
      Now I am fighting tooth and nail to get them to transfer wedding gift cash from various guests (including mine) to our joint account (almost 7-8K, not a trivial amount). They wanted to keep those cash gifts in joint account with their son only. I gave the ultimatum that I will not sign any thank you notes until the money is in OUR joint account and will explicitly let all the guests know that in-laws grabbed the cash.

      My relationship with my in-laws is ruined for good. I will never trust them again with anything money related. I need to protect myself financially, no compromise for anybody, not even the husband as I have seen his true spineless colors.

      Married but absolutely disgusted by the whole wedding planning, got our photographs yesterday and don’t even want to look at them. Sorry for the long rant, I am sure mother of the groom who reads this site will be more sensible and fair than my horror in-laws.

      1. Is it really not possible to say “no” to the in-laws? What happens if you do? I can’t even fathom having a joint account with my parents, much less their insisting the gift money goes there. . . same for having to spend $2-3k on gifts for people I don’t even know.

      3. I am sorry. Please put your foot down with your husband. Have you tried counseling with him?

      4. I am Indian and I am sure my MIL kept a lot of the cash gifts to be given as “return gifts” to the grifters, whenever they had weddings in their family. But my husband didn’t even know about it. It stinks, and I lost much of my respect for her due to this.

        My parents footed the bill for everything though most of the guests were from their side ( MIL insisted wedding venue should be their home town). But over the years, my husband and I have done very well and have more than made up the $ to my parents Ina number of ways. In comparison, MIL has barely received anything from us in the last 15 years ( not that she has ever asked for anything). She has also treated me very very well, generally speaking. So, I have made my peace with this.

      5. Wow. I will never complain about my in-laws again. I just can’t imagine paying for their expectations; probably would have eloped.

      7. Oh, RB2, that sounds horrendous! Please make sure you wish to really stay in this family, married to Spineless Blob, before you commit yourself any further by having children. Give it at least a couple years’ reflection, OK?

      8. Thanks everyone for chiming in
        * Yes I am Indian, but both our sides have been born or raised in the US and living here for decades so I was not expecting such a backward traditional mindset from such families.

        * Calling off the wedding didn’t seem obvious as things were unrolling in real time. It was difficult for me to put two and two together as everyone was very nice, polite, cheerful and excited at the time. Plus I was insanely busy with crazy hours, international travel and huge re-org at work. It just felt easier throwing money at the problem to get them to shut up and focus on bigger emergencies at hand. Only now that things have settled down on all fronts and I am tying up the wedding budget, it is so glaringly obvious.

        * It’s alright, I am putting my foot down and making sure I get what I want. Made the hubby write out a check from his account to MINE to make up for the difference in wedding cash that his parents ran away with. I got my money, he can tell his parents whatever he wants, I don’t care. I have stopped picking up MIL’s calls when hubby is not home, good passive aggressive treatment, I will not be an “easy” DIL to handle I promise.

        * I am used to zero relationship wit h in-laws as that’s what my mother did after she was married and mistreated on such petty things. She just cut off the in-laws completely and my parents are still happily married 40 years later.

    23. Married three months ago. Husband and I are both mid/late 20s. My parents gave us a check up front that ended up covering about 1/4 of the total cost, maybe? We didn’t really work from a budget so I am not sure. We contributed a little less than what my parents did, and my husband’s parents picked up the rest. I think that arrangement was totally fair because they insisted that we have a more extravagant affair with a larger guest list (mostly from their “side”) than we would have otherwise.

    24. Wow, thanks everyone for the really helpful and informative responses! We want both our kids to have wonderful weddings and also for them both to feel equally treated so sitting down with budgets and planning will be essential. We had assumed that we would not follow the old fashioned bride’s family pays rule but contribute to both.

      Thankfully we have a very good relationship with my daughter-in-law to be’s family so I expect that will work out well. I am very, very close to my son’s fiancee — she is already like a daughter to me so I am so looking forward to the wedding planning, realizing that it will be stressful as well. (Mental note to re-watch both the classic and remake versions of Father of the Bride!!)

      The stepdaughter’s wedding will be more challenging for a variety of reasons. We don’t know her boyfriend’s family at all nor do we have any idea of what she has in mind…. she is not yet engaged and we have not talked about it with her. Her boyfriend has talked to my husband though and we expect a proposal before the end of the year so at some point we will be able to have some good discussions.

      I just want to do everything to help it go well so they both have a very special day when they get married. My own wedding to my husband (second wedding), paid for by us, was very small and intimate in our backyard garden so I really have no good frame of reference. They didn’t have wedding planners back then or if they did, we didn’t know or consider that. But it was so special — we loved every bit of it. As we are about to celebrate our 25th anniversary, we have such great memories of that day. I want my children to have that too!

      1. I highly recommend the book and blog A Practical Wedding. It was great for putting everything in perspective but also being supportive about whatever priorities the couple has. I give it to all my friends/family when they get engaged. Maybe you could give copies to your kids.

        1. Thanks for the book rec. I just ordered two copies — one for us and one for my son and fiancee.

          After reading the many comments above, I floated to my husband the idea of coming up with a set identical amount that we would give to our son and my stepdaughter (his daughter) for their respective weddings and his initial reaction was negative. He said he understood that his obligation as FOB is to pay 100% of the costs of his daughter’s wedding with some lesser contribution to our son’s wedding. (There is probably some major latent “divorced dad” guilt feelings involved here which my stepdaughter frequently exploits.) When my stepdaughter gets engaged, I will get a copy for her too.

          I am hoping this book may help enlighten my DH on the more modern approach to wedding planning and parent contributions.

    25. I got married early(ish) at 25. DH was 25. My parents gave me a budget of $15k, which they knew was not enough to pay for a full blown fancy pants wedding, but it was what they wanted to do for us, and we were hugely grateful. My mom also bought my wedding dress.

      DH’s parents told us they wanted to “take care of” the rehearsal dinner, which they did– planned, paid for etc. They then wrote us a $10k check as a wedding gift, claiming “the rehearsal didn’t cost what we thought it would.”

      As it worked out, my parents money was pretty much exactly the amount for the venue/catering. We paid for our own flowers, music, invites (though if I remember correctly, my grandmother sent me a check wanting to pay for those), photographer, and honeymoon (though in our mental balance sheet, DH’s parents more than covered that).

      If it matters, I’m from a family with 2 girls, both married, I think my parents did the same thing with my sister.

    26. when we got married 21 years ago yesterday, we were very young and our parents paid for it all. It wasn’t an expensive wedding, though. His parents paid for the lunch we had right after the ceremony and the flowers. My parents paid for the rest.

    27. Married six years ago in SF Bay Area. Husband and I are many years past college/ being supported by my parents. I think all the parents (who don’t live in the Bay Area) were shocked by the cost of thing here.

      My parents are divorced. My dad offered to contribute “what we needed” – but we also knew that opinions on what is needed could vary. I think he contributed $10-15K. My mom pitched in $5K. Husband’s parents hosted the pre-wedding dinner. Husband & I paid probably $15K.

      Everyone seemed ok with it.

  17. With all of this wedding talk, is there any fail-safe mechanism for getting your boyfriend to propose? I do not want to pull the pregnancy trick, but am running out of other options?

    2. Rhonda, do not pull the pregnancy trick. It won’t work. Google the “engagement chicken” recipe from Glamour magazine. I make it from time to time and everyone who’s eaten has proposed to me (I don’t say yes but like to have options and it’s always nice to be asked).

    3. Find Megan McArdle’s Valentine’s Day article in Bloomberg. What she said to her now-husband isn’t a surefire way of making him propose (in fact, nothing is, free will being free will), but it will avoid delaying the inevitable.

    4. Place a moratorium on ALL forms of intimacy until his cohones turn a royal shade of blue. Once he figures out what’s going on, the wedding bells will be a ring in’ for you.

    5. Fail-safe mechanism? Find a guy who likes you and wants to marry you. Beyond that? No.

  18. I practice law in Texas, but I am considering moving to FL and taking the FL bar to be closer to family. I am recently divorced; moved to TX for ex’s family. I am looking for a change. I would love your thoughts on the FL legal market. My family has a home in Captiva (SW FL). Thanks.

    1. Florida’s legal market is pretty weak right now (and has been for many years). Most of the jobs that are posted are for insurance defense, so if you are trying to find something in another field, you might struggle. What area of law do you practice? Where are you considering moving in Florida?

      1. Yea, that’s the sense I get looking at job postings. I am in a big city in Texas with a relatively strong mkt, although the price of oil is hurting a little. I am in commercial litigation now, but I am flexible on practice area and city. Feb bar applications are due in Nov., the bar is in Feb, and then results come out in May (I think?), so I have some time to think about it. I am renting right now, so I am not tied down here, other than my job. What part of FL do you live in? Do you like it?

        1. I live in the Tampa Bay area. I like it better than any other city in Florida, but DH and I are hoping to move someplace with 4 seasons in the next 3-5 years. There are plenty of things to do and see and great restaurants. South Tampa is very insular and hoity toity, but St. Pete/Clearwater aren’t. The school districts in the area, with the exception of Plant, aren’t great either, and childcare options are ridiculously expensive and limited.

      2. I agree with above re legal market here in Florida. But, a lot of west coast firms seem to be opening satellite offices in Central Florida doing insurance defense and insurance coverage work.

        I relocated here more than 10 years ago, and I love it in Florida. I’m on the gulf coast.

        1. Glad to hear you love it! I have heard mixed things about living there, but I really think that I would like it.

  19. Looking for advice: My SO (with whom I am in acomplex situation but we do not live together or have shared accounts) is gravely ill. About 14 months ago he asked desperately for a loan of 15K and promised to pay it back within “a few weeks”. Feeling compelled to help because in the past (we’ve been in a relationship for close to 10yrs, both divorced with our own kids)we each contributed more than the other at times, I gave the money with nothing in writing… He paid back about 5 k and nothing since. Now I am desperate for the money and for weeks it has been “next week”. I want out of everything with him and feel like a monster. I also pay his cell phone, cable and car bills on my cc but until last month he reimbursed that. He stopped 6 weeks ago and since than he ows me another 2.5K.
    I cannot think, sleep, eat…. And my boss makes me miserable, keeps telling others what an amazing lawyer I am who saved cases nobody knew how to deal with and at the same time refuses to discuss the rase I have been asking for the past year. i have been looking, but the job market here is terrible(its more complicated than this but will stop here).
    Anybody? TIA

    1. This a difficult situation.

      The way it reads, your SO of 10 years is gravely ill and you have been assisting him during this time. Now you want to abandon him because the relationship is placing too much of a financial burden on you. This doesn’t really sound like much of a relationship, does it? Now I will assume there is probably more to it than that, but from what you wrote that is how it comes across.

      My thoughts:
      – How would you feel if the situation was reversed and he was abandoning you when you were gravely ill?
      – Is the financial impact the only problem with the relationship?
      – If you love your SO and want to remain in a relationship with him, have you had a frank discussion with him about the impact of the financial issues on the relationship so that you can work together on mitigating the impact?

      1. I think this is way too harsh. It’s not “abandoning” someone to refuse to let that person take financial advantage of you, whether or not they are ill. You are not a monster for wanting to save yourself.

        1. +1 Think also that the SO could be feeling badly enough that he’s no longer able to make any sort of reasonable financial decision. Can you get in touch with some sort of social worker who could help with finding other possible sources of support given his state? Also, if he’s in bad enough shape, you might want to get in touch with a local hospice. Not only would you find access to financial counseling through them, but also some help in dealing with the various kinds of pains involved for yourself. Even if he refused their help for himself, a common problem even though people generally experience much better deaths when cared for by a hospice.

    2. I think you need a therapist to support you in dealing with this very difficult situation of having a gravely ill SO. You’re in a tough spot and need self-care.

  20. My hairdresser has expanded her book of business (good for her!), but it now takes at least 6-9 weeks to schedule an appointment. This seems a bit excessive to me, and I would expect something more like 2 weeks, at most. Am I off base here?

    If it matters, I live in a large suburb of a major city, and there are definitely a lot of hairdressers in the area.

    1. That is great if it works for her and her skills demand such advance booking. I had a hairdresser like that when I was in my 20s, but it was a high profile hairdresser in Los Angeles (and I usually got fed up and went to one of her associates anyway). There is no way I would put up with that now.

      1. Thanks for the input–it sounds like I am not too unreasonable. I mean, she’s good, but not great, and certainly not high profile… although her prices are competitive. But I barely know my travel schedule 1 week out, and committing to anything 6 weeks out is a joke for me (international travel means I stay over some weekends, so even a Saturday is tough to commit to).

    2. I would schedule my next appointment when I leave the salon; you can always cancel closer to the date if needed but atleast then you have something in the book.
      Does she set her own schedule or through a salon? If the salon, let the hairdresser know you’ve been frustrated as she may not be aware.
      Ask if they can let you know of any cancellations. (Obviously some places are more organized than others, so may or may not be able to meet this request.)

      1. This is what I did when my hairdresser got too popular for me to schedule weekend haircuts. Then she cancelled one and I couldn’t get it rescheduled for another two months and found another stylist.

        1. Yes, this is the issue… if I do have to cancel (or if she does), which would be same week as appointment, I would need to wait 2 more months. 4 months between appointments is just not feasible.

          I’m just going to switch.

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