Weekend Open Thread
Haaappy weekend! Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
This weekend, our object of lust is this fabulous leather jacket. That green! That cut! Also love the long cuff at the end, as styled here. It's <gulp> $695 at ShopBop (which, elsewhere, has prices up to 70% off). Alphie Leather Jacket
I did a little blogging recently about personal branding, and I was wondering what everyone here thought about how your fashion sense can be used to compound the things that your business cards and resume say.
Do you think that wearing more conservative clothing can make you seem more reliable? Or is there something to be said for wearing a few pieces that really pop to help people remember you *and* to look good?
The jacket above is AMAZING, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near my price range – but it’s something I like. Would it really fit in with corporate, though? I never see people wearing things that are so eye-catching and vivid, but I sure would like to!
The weekend open thread generally features an item that Kat’s noticed but that is *not* really work appropriate. FYI. :-)
I’m a recent convert to Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office (thanks to this site), and I’ve been thinking about personal branding a lot too and actually wrote out a personal branding strategy. I do think you should dress in a way that represents your personal brand and reflects what you want people to remember about you. In my case, that’s not conservative – I work in a really boring-sounding, esoteric area of law so I want to my clothing to make me seem quirky and fun, not conservative.
I work in a conservative area too, so I also try to bring a little quirky, interesting detail to my wardrobe so I don’t just fade into yet-another-tax-accountant…
Wait, this is a joke right? I thought the multiple exclamation points was a give away. That jacket is hideous.
My earlier post came across as unintentionally snarky. Love most of your picks Kat, just not this one (neither for work nor weekend)! :)
I hate this one too but can’t decide if what I really hate is the styling and the model. Maybe the jacket would look okay with skinny jeans and a tank.
I think there is a way to wear a kelly green motorcycle jacket so that it looks fun and funky, but this ain’t it. She looks like she needs some major chiropractic work.
As to whether it’s corporate, this is Kat’s pick for the weekend. Very fun, but for something that eyecatching and relegated to nonwork hours, I’d probably opt for something similar from Forever 21 or H&M ;)
Agreed, for something like this, where you’re going to get minimal wear and it’ll be out of style in a few months, best to go with a cheap-o knockoff.
Hard to go for a cheap-o knock off for leather (vinyl? pleather? UGH). Agree that it’s not very practical nor a long-term piece in the wardrobe, though.
A thousand times no on the jacket, for any occasion … but separately, I wanted to report on a Pendleton suit purchase. I bought their “ultraweave” suit in ivory since it was on sale (jacket/pants/skirt for $200 with shipping) and I’m happy to report that it’s pretty awesome. The wool is great quality/feel though a lot thinner than I expected (and that’s a good thing really, I’ll wear it year-round). The jacket fit *perfectly* out of the box. I ordered an 8P in all items where I am normally a 6P in Ann Taylor and between a 6P and 8P in Jcrew. If I can afford it, I’ll likely buy the same suit in navy at some point. HTH someone!
I buy Pendleton often (I’m in Oregon). Fantastic quality pieces and very timeless.
Me too; I’ve worn them for years. They are very easy to wear year round.
Do they often go on sale? I really want the same suit in navy and charcoal mix but at $450 for all 3 pieces (vs. $200 which I paid for the ivory color) it’s a bit much to stomach. I’m nowhere near Oregon unfortunately.
I have an outlet near me, and have picked up nice jackets for $19.99. I am waiting to be lucky enough to get a matching skirt or pant for a whole suit. I love Pendleton.
Oh, man! I’m going to have to get myself to one of their stores. Does anyone know how the one at Union Station in DC is? Or am I better off ordering (and guessing fit) from the catalogues?
LP7 – I was in the DC store about a year ago and was not super-impressed with the selection, but it might be worth heading in just to get an idea of the sizing if you’re close by?
If you’re in DC, you might also check out the Old Town Alexandria location, on King Street (and Pitt, I want to say…).
Question re styling a khaki suit:
I was inspired by my husband’s lovely khaki summer suit that he wears both for weddings and to court in the hot months and just bought my own from j.crew. How would you ladies wear this? I mean, what color top and shoes? I tried black shoes, but it feels way too heavy and dark. Suggestions?
I would stick with a white or light blue shirt, solid or with a thin stripe, a dark brown belt, and dark brown shoes. I am also thinking if you wore a white shirt underneath you could do navy accessories – belt/shoes/scarf. I agree that black looks too heavy, but for some reason black shoes with a khaki skirt looks OK in my head, but not with khaki pants.
I would do a white or blue shirt for summer and navy or brown shoes usually. There’s something about khaki and blue I really love. My husband wears a french blue shirt with khaki and I just love it. ;-)
I have a khaki pant suit (actually a greyish — bone? — khaiki) from BR that I wore with barely-peep-toe dark green cole haan pumps, and a white shirt, with a necklace that had purple and green in it. Lots of compliments on that one. I think if you go with crisp white underneath, it’s a perfect backdrop for a fabulous shoe/necklace combo! Hard to go wrong, color wise :)
This. A khaki suit is a perfect time to try out colorful shoes – dark green is perfect if you don’t want to go too “out there.”
You could also try shoes that are a little strappier than you might ordinarily wear with a suit so you are seeing less of the shoe and more of your foot. That tends to make the outfit feel lighter and more summer-appropriate, although YMMV if you are using the suit for court appearances.
I think it depends on your region and your skintone. I need a pop of color up top to avoid looking washed out in khaki and live in a warmer climate, so a pastel top and nude/beige shoes work best for me. If you can pull off a white shirt, that’s a great opportunity to go for more fun/colorful shoes.
I might try an orange-y brown/camel colored shoe with a light and floaty light pink blouse underneath (I think a light ivory would be lovely if the khaki color of the suit was sufficiently darker than the ivory), though I agree that just about any light pastel colored blouse or shirt would work fine.
i bought one earlier this summer from ann taylor. and i too found that black shoes or brown shoes didn’t work, way too heavy looking. i’ve been wearing mine with white shirt and “nude” shoes, or with a melon/coral silk blouse and tan dress sandals. black can work with some khakis if you do it with a black top, but mine is too light a khaki for it to work. oh, i also like a turquoise short sleeve silk sweater with mine. i also busted out the espadrilles to wear with just the skirt on a casual friday, but that was def pushing it for the office.
Hello ladies;
Just a little update regarding my post few weeks ago on independence day reception in morocco.
I ended up following most of the advice I got on here, sent the thank you note and was so grateful not to wear high heels on the grass.
I got many lovely comments on my dress and the consulate even sent me two of my pictures.
That’s it just wanted to let you know it all went great and I didn’t do any fashion faux pas
Thanks so much for your support
Thanks Houda. Glad it went well!
So glad to hear it was a big success!
So glad! Your inquiry was one of the most interesting (and exciting!) that I have seen on this blog.
Glad to know it went well!
houda: thanks for reporting in. it’s great to hear how things turned out. koudos to you!
Gave notice to my law firm this week and will be starting a government job at the end of the month. I know I wanted to leave, but everyone here is being so nice and complimentary about my work and my future here that I am unexpectedly feeling a little sentimental about the place! Any tips for managing the doubt that creeps in after making a hard decision?
Remember that doubt and sentimentality are not the same.
This sentence just really helped me with a big change I have coming in my career in the next couple weeks. Thanks! Sometimes, such a simple, seemingly obvious statement can really hit home.
Remember your reasons for choosing to leave in the first place (whether it was more vacation, better hours, work experience, etc.)
I think now that you know you are leaving, a little bit (or a lot) of the stress from firm life is lifting. Having an end date is probably giving everything a rosier glow. Enjoy your last month, but as others have said, remember your original reasons for wanting to leave. I also note that in my experience, others do warm up and become somewhat unexpectedly complimentary when you (or a colleague) decides to leave a firm. I think everyone wants your departure to be on good terms.
I agree. Often people wait to show their appreciation until you are on your way out the door.
Do something to celebrate the future such as a well-earned massage or pop open a bottle of bubbly! By celebrating, you can focus on your excitement to be moving forward to a new adventure rather than dwelling on the past.
Good luck!
I left my job for greener pastures and was sooooooooooooo ready to leave. However, I teared up (okay full on cried) on my way out the last day. It struck me as really odd b/c I was not sad to leave, but it was my first job and I’d though I’d miss everyone. Glad to know I’m not the only one. My advice is to let yourself feel for a day or so and then start getting excited about the new begining!
Make a list of why you know it’s the right decision, and visualize your life after you get acclimated to the new job. Good luck!
had the same experience – what helped me was reminding myself: the move is you making your career happen; you’ve thought about it in depth and it’s right for you. This remains the case no matter how nice the folks are at current job. And you will naturally feel apprehensive about leaving something you know where you have proven yourself.
I made the move a couple of months ago and it’s been fantastic, by the way.
Hello Corporettes.
I am coming to the end of my Summer Associate term and I am hoping and praying for a job offer. This is where I want to be after graduation! I have one week left and no one has mentioned any meetings or exit interviews or anything like that. Do I ask for one? How do I prepare? I’ve kept a binder of all my projects for the summer. I’m thinking of going through it, summarizing each and drafting some sort of memo or letter to the partners. Any thoughts on this? Suggestions? What should I say or avoid?
Thanks, all.
Do they know that you would like to return? My bad habit that I’m attempting to break is that I don’t let my bosses know how happy I am in a job. Personally, I wouldn’t wait for them to come to you and say “if you’re happy where you are, we would like…” but you go to them and say something like, “I really enjoy working here, if there would be a position open upon graduation/passing the bar, I would really appreciate it if you kept me in mind!” Thoughts?
I would ask your supervisor if you can/will have an exit interview or at least a short meeting to review your summer. In all the firms where I have worked, a memo/summary of the projects would have been waaaaaaay overkill. This may vary by region/firm, though (I am in a mid-sized southern city). In my exit interviews, the interviewer has just briefly gone over what people have written about me in evaluations, generally, and asked me what I liked/didn’t like about my experience and what projects I especially enjoyed.
One thing that I have done on my last day that I think people like is I have gone to each person’s office individually that I did a project for and thanked them for the experience and said bye. If the project was especially memorable and I genuinely enjoyed doing t, I might have said a few words about the project specifically and what I liked about it. It seemed to have made a difference.
oh my goodness do not draft a memo to the partners about your work. total over kill.
[Disclaimer: I am a litigator at a boutique firm, and have only worked/ clerked at boutique firms, so BigLaw women may have other advice.]
Your second sentence (“This is where I want to be after graduation!”), sums up what you should communicate to the one or two partners you worked most closely with during the summer. My preference is to communicate these things during a quick in-office meeting (knock, say “do you have two minutes,” sit down, briefly express your sincere interest, and exit gracefully). Enthusiastic sincerity, combined with stellar work performance, will get you far. Good Luck!
I was in your shoes last summer at a med-large firm in FL. Agree with the previous posters that a memo would be overkill, and want to second that you should make it clear to the person conducting the interview (for us, it was the non-attorney recruiting manager) that you thoroughly enjoyed your summer and want to come back if at all possible.
Make it clear — as in say it out loud in no uncertain terms. Perhaps have a few reasons WHY you want to go back ready, be it the corporate culture, the great people, the interesting work assignments, whatever, so that it’s not just a plea for a job, but definitely mention it. If your firm isn’t organizing formal exit interviews (which would seem unusual?), I don’t think it would be out of line to ask your mentor if they have a few extra minutes to meet with you on your last day, or something similar. Our exit interviews were somewhat superficial (what was your favorite event, etc.), but did ask what practice groups we favored, and what our overall comments were, so there were a couple opportunities to work in the desire to come back and why.
I’m on board with a-non-lawyer about visiting the people you worked with as well – simply a “it was great working with you – thank you for [whatever – the support, feedback, interesting project]” will work. Also consider visiting the practice group leaders for groups you’re interested in if you haven’t had a chance to interact with them. Mention any projects or attorneys you worked with in the group and that you would be interested in working with the group if you have the opportunity to come back, and just wanted to introduce yourself.
Overall, you want to convey gratitude and enthusiasm. This is not the time to be coy. Also, if asked generally, be as specific about WHY it was so great and what makes it such a great fit for you.
Good luck!
I’d personally say goodbye to as many people as possible, mentioning that you had a great experience and hope to return, and also send personal thank you email to every attorney you worked with, saying you really enjoyed your summer and mentioning a specific project you enjoyed working on with them, and an email to HR or whoever makes hiring decisions saying that you enjoyed the summer and are extremely interested in permanent employment with the firm.
I second the suggestions of the others here. I would add that they probably have planned some sort of exit meeting with you and you will probably find out about it shortly. If there is a Summer Associate Coordinator or if they assigned you a mentor, you should try to sit down with him or her and make sure that person is aware of what work you have done. That person will be consulted by the hiring committee on whether to give you an offer. By the time they meet with you, the decision will already have been made.
Do any road warrior corporettes have any stories to share about experiences with the new-ish TSA body scanners? Does it really hold up the line that much more? and what about the ick factor? have to fly soon and most of my airports either have them or are about to get them. Would love to hear any info!!
I’ve had to go through one earlier this year. Interestingly, my travel companion went through a different checkpoint at the same airport and did not have to go through one. So, if you do some research ahead of time, you might be able to just pick a checkpoint without a scanner, at least until the airports get enough to have them at all checkpoints.
The scan itself went fairly quickly, but I was a bit squicked out by it. The most annoying part was that one of the TSA agents wanted to take my laptop out of my line of sight to do a swipe test on it while the agent running the body scan thing was waiting for the person to radio back that I could go. Fortunately, the laptop-testing dude was very nice when I told him to please not take my laptop out of my line of sight and to wait for the body scan to be done.
You can opt out of the body scans, but the alternative (punishment?) is a pat down. Personally, I don’t think I would not opt out on a regular basis, but probably would if I were pregnant, since there have been some questions about these things.
You have the right to refuse to go through them and be patted down by an agent of the same gender if you prefer.
Ooh great topic Corporettes! My BFF and I are planning (were planning?) a girls’ getaway next month. We are flying out of one of the NYC airports -dont know which yet, but all have the body scanners?- and she has uterine prolapse, so wears a pessary (3 kids! all worth it! but still…). She is freaked about them seeing it. I don’t know if the scanner can see what you have inside?? Does anyone know? She is also not super psyched about a patdown and wants us to drive to Epcot instead (which might also be fun?). Thanks and sorry if TMI!
Not sure, but the operators will be trained to identify medical devices, implants etc. Your friend might be discretely asked about it if the operator does see it.
They have some at O’Hare and I was directed to it. No biggie. It does slow things down (it probably takes 10-15 secs vs 3-4 secs for the old-fashioned method). I’ve been patted down so many times that, really, I don’t think about what the person monitoring it can see. Its better than someone touching me. Maybe I should be more offended but, really, I can’t imagine looking at bodies over and over and over and over and over again day after day after day is really all that interesting after awhile.
I haven’t had a scan (and am not happy about the idea) but it can’t be any worse than my experience at the Frankfurt airport a few years ago. After going through the x-ray portal each person had to stand spread-eagled in front of a (same-sex) agent who wielded an electronic want. The woman I to whom I was assigned ran it over my body like a weapon and rammed it up and down my inner thighs – ouch! And of course I felt like I couldn’t complain even though it was a violation. Later I read that Frankfurt airport takes its anti-terrorism mandate seriously, so that is appreciated.
I live in Asia and we’ve had all this security stuff for years. You just get used to it. Consider the alternative – what if they didn’t have it, and you had a tragedy on a flight?
You just have to suck it up. And I am sure those guys have seen all there is to see. So no point freaking out about it.
Yup, I live in the Middle East at the moment and when I fly to the UK I get patted down twice by6 two different females. I don’t mind being patted or scanned frankly as long as the person doing the patting or viewing is female. I will hopefully be travelling to the US later next month and wanted to confirm – are the viewees/patters the same sex as the subject? Or does it vary by location? I expect to be flying out of Dulles.
*by two different females…not 6 :P
Except that marshals got caught saving the images:
http://gizmodo.com/5604430/oops-the-feds-have-been-storing-nudie-checkpoint-scan-images
Sorry, but no one except my husband gets to see what I look like under my clothes.
Come on. You can’t see what a person looks like by these pictures. And there is nothing that indicates the images were saved for some kind of salacious purpose.
Maybe I’m not all that modest, but this doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. I doubt anyone looking at these images really cares what I look like naked. If you think they care about what you look like naked, I guess you just have a greater sense of self-importance than I have.
But if you want to avoid it, don’t fly. Easy peasy…
My home airport has had one for a while, and it used to be “optional”. They would pick 1 out of every 4 people or so to go through it. I flew out every Monday morning for 3 months, and I got picked every. single. time. It seemed like a pattern, and it weirded me out. I never, ever agree to the scan and always get a pat down. I’ve probably gotten at least 10 pat downs this year. That thing gives me the creeps!!
Maybe I am just odd and not modest (and had way too many invasive medical exams, awake, that involve nudity) but I just don’t care at all about the screening. I also worked in a job where I had to pat people down and (ick) do strip searches so I guess I just understand what it is like to be a professional and separate sex from work – like doctors, nurses and law enforcement do.
I’m with you. I’ve been through them a few times and I just don’t see what the big deal is. The scan is more x-ray like than ooo, naked photo to me. I really don’t even think about it.
I flew out of Heathrow shortly after the Christmas near-miss and every single passenger (approx 400) getting on our flight back to the U.S. was patted down (thoroughly), had our shoes searched and had to remove all items from our carry on luggage to have them individually searched. It took approx 5-10 minutes per person depending on your carry on situation. Annoying? Yes. Invasive? Certainly. Did I mind? Not for a second.
When I was picked to have the body scan before our flight from DFW to LGA in May, I suddenly felt very adamant that I didn’t want to be seen beneath my clothes. I don’t mind pat downs, and the woman who did it was very nice. I definitely wouldn’t drive to FL to avoid the hassle, however.
this article seems to indicate that you are not permitted to refuse the scan: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7048576.ece
That incident did not take place in the U.S. It seems as if the O.P. is asking about travel within the U.S. I’ve seen people refuse the scan and I refused it once when I thought I might be pregnant. It really wasn’t a problem at all.
That being said, I’ve gotten the scan several times. I really don’t view it as a big deal. But if you do, the patdown isn’t bad either.
Interesting article from Boston.com regarding how law firms in Boston are changing how they pay associates.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/08/06/law_firms_rethinking_pay_system/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed3_HP
I’m in my mid twenties. I’ve had my current job as a goal since I was in college, and jumped strategically through four jobs to get to where I am. I view it as a stepping stone to a consulting career, but I love my job. Most days, including weekends, I work from 7 am to 5 pm at work, and until midnight or even later at home.
I recently had a review with my manager. He said there’s a perception that I don’t understand my job, that I’m “nothing more than a junior member of the team”, and that I don’t take my work seriously enough. Ouch. He said that he sees me as qualified, but an introvert, and since I don’t talk much, I’m viewed as not knowing how to contribute.
At that statement, other incidents came together for me, like the time one of the top managers mentioned something that happened in the ’80s and joked “I bet you weren’t even BORN yet!”, or yesterday, when I was the only member of a team not recognized by name THREE times. Both happened in front of the entire department.
My coworkers and direct manager recognize my work, and I’m frequently identified as being an enthusiastic, positive team member. But I’m realizing that the middle-to-higher managers in my department don’t feel the same way, and they’re the ones who make decisions on career advancement.
I’m alarmed. Suddenly, I feel that my reputation and career stability is in crisis. It would be easy for me to brush this off and say I’ll be who I want. But if I ultimately want to start a consulting business, I have to learn to put on a persona that makes decision-makers percieve me as confident, decisive, capable, and mature.
Here’s what I’m reading from these incidents:
1. The perception is that I’m young. Why? My father is a prominent executive at this company. I have freckles and long hair. I don’t wear makeup or jewelry. I don’t pay enough attention to my clothes, and sometimes my two dogs leave white fur on them. I have toys on my desk. I just started in this job 2 years ago, in a company where 30-year anniversaries are common.
2. The perception is that I’m incompetent, maybe because I feel it’s obnoxious to call attention to my own successes, and I hate meetings, so I don’t contribute.
3. There MAY be some resistance to femininity at the top. I’m coming to this conclusion because of the old-school attitudes of some of the higher managers, and the fact that accolades seem skewed toward male coworkers (in a dept of about 100 people, the department is almost all male, with only one female manager). I’m not accusing managers of sexism. I’m considering the idea that acting/looking feminine isn’t in my best interest.
My action plan is:
1. Eliminate anything that feels young or non-work related. Wear completely professional clothes only, 1-2 levels above mine. NO butterflies, hearts, frilly accents, rhinestones, or pink/purple in my clothes or accessories. Be a stickler for perfection (ironed, no fur or stains, etc).
2. Wear my hair up every day, neutral makeup with foundation that covers the freckles, a watch, and high-quality jewelry every day.
3. Be aware of my interactions and avoid any topics that seem immature, like my pet hamsters, parents, video games, milestones (“I was a freshman when 9/11 happened”) or the fact that I’m going to Disney for vacation. Avoid wishy-washy “ums”, “ers”, “I think”, “I believe”, “I’m not sure”. Watch my voice tone to avoid immature mannerisms like inflecting upwards at the ends of sentences. Rephrase “I don’t knows” to sound confident. Anticipate questions before meetings and formulate decisive answers. Stop apologizing or asking coworkers for their input on decisions unless absolutely necessary. Start using corporate-speak (gag) to get on wavelength with the managers. Get over my hatred of meetings and jump in with questions and self-promotion.
4. Get rid of all the tchochkes on my desk, mugs, stickers, toys, personal pictures, etc. Maybe a nice vase of flowers, but that’s it.
5. Be absolutely perfect in administrative tasks – entering timecards, coming to work earlier & leaving later than the bosses, answering calls & emails off hours, submitting expense reports and updates on my projects, etc.
6. Stop having lunch with my father. He insists on paying for me, which makes me feel like a little kid. I can always see him outside of work.
7. Despite what I think, make my top priority whatever it is that management values. For example, I may consider a task that keeps our production lines going very important, but if a manager wants line charts instead of bar charts in a monthly report, I should get over my ego and make that my very top priority.
These are some major changes here. I feel like if I show up Monday with a suit and strictly-business personality, people will think I’m a little girl putting on a big-girl costume and wonder why. So I think I should implement changes gradually over the next few weeks.
Thought this would be the perfect forum to explain my plan and see if anyone else has any additional insights or recommendations for me. Thank you.
I don’t think you need to cover up your freckles! (I am still a law student, though, so I don’t have any experience to back that up… just my gut reaction.)
As far as timing, I’d start changing a few things every week. Get the toys, etc. off your desk ASAP. Also, a lot of these goals seem like just doing a better job in your position, and you should start doing those things ASAP, too. Other than these things, I’d think that you don’t want to do an entire personality/wardrobe/hair overhaul all at once. Maybe chime in at the next meeting with one question. Start coming in earlier/staying later a few times per week. Start ironing and cleaning off the dog hair every day while you beef up your professional wardrobe.
It sounds like you have really thought things through, and that you have an action plan to move in the right direction! Congrats! However, it seems like you already knew what the right things to do were (dress neatly, get rid of toys on your desk, etc.), which makes me wonder why you weren’t doing them in the first place when you knew this job was an important step to reaching your goals. Is this really the right fit for you? Could you be subconsciously sabotaging yourself?
If you are serious about following your own advice, I would suggest doing it sooner rather than later. A drastic change in attire, attitude, and working space will indicate to your managers that you ARE taking their feedback seriously. A slow change might go unnoticed.
One additional piece of advice: Find yourself a mentor or two in the office as soon as possible who can give you guidance.
Read more: https://corporette.com/2010/08/06/weekend-open-thread-51/comment-page-1/#comment-160906#ixzz0vreVarQ6
A few comments–
Overall, I think you’ve got the right idea with your plan, and I admit that if I were your coworkers I might have a similar perception of your former self:
1) You absolutely need to clean up your appearance and begin dressing and grooming like an adult. I don’t think this means to avoid ruffles and pink entirely, but it does mean your clothes need to be well made, fit you perfectly, and be impeccably clean and ironed every day. No off days until you have changed your image. Same goes with the hair and makeup. Get yourself a good cut and style. I generally don’t think makeup is necessary for the office, but if you’re going to wear it, go get a lesson so you don’t overdo it and look like a girl playing dress up.
2) Definitely get rid of the frilly stuff at your desk. Photos and a vase of flowers are fine. Pens in the shape of heart and a copy of teen beat magazine definitely are not.
3) Do your best work on every project, and speak up for yourself! Seek out the upper level supervisors and ask them to lunch or coffee–let them get to know you and change their perception of you.
You also need to seriously consider changing companies for two reasons: 1) your father works there, and your peers may react negatively to that, and 2) the damage already done to your repututation may be irreversible.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
One thing I recognized between what you said re: your review and your plan is that you don’t seem to address the idea of “contributing more.” You said that your boss thinks that the main problem is that you are an introvert, so you don’t contribute at meetings, so people perceive you as not knowing what you’re doing. Your plan is to take away all personality from your dress/desk and be a perfect job drone. To me, perfect job drone =/=knowing what you’re doing. Yes, you should stop doing rhinestones and (if you’re not already) be perfect in administrative tasks. No, you should not become a “yes-lady” and do whatever management tells you to. I think it would actually serve you better to, if you think management could do something a better way, to SPEAK UP and say so. If you know what you’re doing, then let people know you know what you’re doing. Your boss said that speaking up was your issue, and you don’t address actually speaking up. You addressed speaking (no umms, etc), but not actually speaking up. Do this.
And meetings are a fact of life. To me, some of your post said, “I don’t participate at meetings because I don’t like them, and so I’m going to change as much as I can without having to participate at meetings.” No. You HAVE to participate; your boss pretty much told you that when he said that you are an introvert and don’t speak up.
From someone who has also worked with her father and who has dealt with this, I have to say that some of your co-workers may feel as though you got your position because your Dad. I was asked more than once if I was just spying on the workers as opposed to actually working. It’s probably not true, and I’m sure if you’ve been at the job you’re at for so long, you have the ability to do the job regardless. BUT, if you don’t SHOW the people you work with that you know what you’re doing, they aren’t going to assume anything else. Wearing makeup and wearing your hair in a bun isn’t showing the people you know what you’re doing. If you are able to SHOW the people you work with that you know what you’re doing, your Dad paying for your lunch won’t matter.
This.
As a life-long introvert, I recommend warming up before you go into an interaction situation. I have to do this before meetings, networking events, and phone calls. Chat with a coworker about a light subject or give a friend a quick call. These activities get my vocal cords moving and put me in a mood to continue talking.
I often think meetings are a waste of time but, as Another Sarah said, they are a fact of life. Try to watch your facial expressions. I’m bad about this- I’ve been told I have an “expressive face” that shows very quickly when I’m annoyed or bored. I also look up when I think- I’ve been told this looks like I’m rolling my eyes. I’m working on a “neutral” face- If anyone has tips on this, I’d love it.
How about instead of eating lunch with your dad, you invite someone else to lunch? Food is a great way to bond with people.
Good luck!
I think you already have a good start. Surely you don’t need to cover your freckles – nothing wrong with freckles – but maybe it’s time to go to a different stylist for your hair, visit the make-up counter, and upgrade the wardrobe. Definitely time to get rid of the toys on the desk. And does your 7 to 5 schedule match up with everyone else’s? At least until you feel like you have things under control, maybe you should switch your hours to the schedule most people keep. If the mid-to-higher level managers are there from 9 to 7, along with most others, and they see you leave at 5 every day, they may assume you are done for the day. They don’t necessarily know that you are in at 7 and work from home at night.
As to how you behave at work – is there a mentor there other than your father who you can talk to about specifics, or can you meet with your manager again for a follow-up or planning meeting? Is your work up to snuff? Are there areas you could improve? How you can best get in front of the mid/upper management? e.g, maybe you can give a presentation to get your ideas about the production line across. In meetings, try to speak up when you have something to contribute. Once you do it a few times, it gets easier. Take a cue from someone else your level – what are they doing that is working for them? Emulate them.
Also, this has been mentioned a lot lately, but I agree with the others that “Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office” is a great find. It is such a helpful book and could guide you through the self-examination, career-improvement process.
Good luck! Let us know how things are working out for you.
I second the hours point. I used to work with a woman who came in 7:30 or so and left at 5:30. It annoyed me and made everyone think she was lazy. Most people in my office were trying to discuss ideas between about 5:30-7 and she missed out. When you’re established, you can say “this is how I want to do it.”. But until then, conform your hours to those of your supervisors.
I’m extremely impressed with your attitude and your desire to improve your work situation. I absolutely agree with your action plan, and would also add that I have found it helpful to schedule coffee or lunch with someone from upper management every few months or so. They are generally very flattered to be asked for lunch, and it’s a good way of getting to know them on a personal level (particularly if you’re already more of an introvert). Best of luck to you!
Do you have any idea where the perception that you don’t *understand* your job is coming from? That’s different from just not doing a great job. It means you don’t really know what is being asked of you, and that is a bigger problem. Are your projects missing the mark? Do you not ask enough follow-up questions to get it exactly right? Don’t be afraid to ask meaningful questions – it shows you are thinking critically and carefully about the work. Are you superficially completing projects but not taking initiative and following up/expanding the scope of your work as necessary when issues arise? Do you regularly ask for and receive feedback?
It may be a good idea to speak to some of these higher-ups about your understanding of the perceptions about your work product and commitment (not whether they see you as young). Let them know that you get the message and that you have plans to improve your performance.
I agree with another poster that you may need to consider a position at another company to get out of daddy’s shadow – may be the only way to be taken seriously.
Good luck. Most of us realize at some point or another how naive we have been in some way in the past, and we all move onward and upward!
If you’re working 7 to midnight and no one knows your name or what you do, either (1) you’re spending your time on the wrong things that aren’t essential or needed for your job, or (2) you aren’t being given the credit for the work you do. None of the things on your list deal with the very specific criticism given to you by your manager. Yes, you ABSOLUTELY need to get rid of toys on your desk (seriously?) and do the other things you’ve listed, but if you want to be taken seriously, your boss told you what you need to do: speak up, seek out more responsible projects, ask your middle-management peers for feedback, and start making yourself essential to the team.
This.
All the appearance related “grow up” stuff you plan to do is ok (and easily done), but I would be most worried that the “does not understand job” comment. Have you asked him for some instances that you can learn from, where he felt you just didn’t get it?
This was my reaction as well. The fact that most of your action items involve your appearance (both physically and the way you more generally appear to others, like your office and your lunch date) makes me think you may still not “understand” what your contributions to the company should be. Focus more on your work and less on your appearance, and the balance will find itself.
Wow, I think your attitude toward this feedback is really productive. Some people would have crumbled, but good for you that you listened, and things are actually going to change! Nice job.
It seems to me that some of this is about personal marketing. The senior management have to know who you are before they can support you. Get your name/face in front of them. You can promote yourself at meetings by taking leadership roles – speaking up, and even volunteering to present information.
There’s nothing wrong with changing all of this at once, except that it’s probably scary. Your co-workers will probably make fun for a few days, and then they’ll get used to the new you. You can just tell them, “I’m making some changes.”
I also second the recommendation for “Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office.” It might help explain why being introverted can come off as incompetent in the workplace.
It sounds like you have a great plan in place to change your image. I wanted to chime in on a few things.
1) I also work in an all male department where I am the youngest person. It’s extremely hard for some of the people to not look at me as junior, because to those who have 25 years on my 10, I am still junior. When your boss pointed this out, he may have just been stating a fact. Try not to take that in itself personally.
2) Completly agree with not bringing attention to milestones like saying- “hey, you started working here the year I was born!” Make an effort to understand anything relevent that may have happened in your industry or to your company when you were a child or before you were born AND before you worked there in the recent past. If your Dad was working there then, ask him what was going on at the time – be aware of important projects, mergers, CEO departures, industry regulatory changes, the year the building burned down or they relocated, that kind of thing. You don’t have to pretend you were there or know all the details – just act like you know OF it so when people mention the really hard year back in 1995 you can nod in agreement. Maybe put together a little timeline for your reference. I work in banking, which is known for mergers/acquisitions every few years and I did this when I started. So many people came from other banks and still identified with that YEARS after they were acquired.
3) I don’t think you need to worry about the freckles, and you can still wear pink or purple as long as it’s a button up shirt or a nice quality sweater and you are wearing it with some nice wool slacks. Pinks and purples actually look great with gray and I think lilac and hot pink/magenta look excellent with navy. So you can wear those colors, just pair them with something a bit more conservative.
4) Re: Your comment about hating meetings and how corporate speak makes you gag. Out of everything, this made me most see how people could view you the way you describe. Noone likes these things all the time. I show up to plenty of useless meetings as do the rest of us. However, meetings – when held properly and for the proper reasons – are extremely beneficial. Perhaps try calling a few of your own. You be the chair of the meeting, make an agenda and stick to it, and get the information you need to know from the people who will help you advance. If this wouldn’t be appropriate, show up to the other meetings with questions and information that you need to gather from the people there – or share with the people there. Ask for your topics to be added to the agenda in advance.
And you don’t have to use “corporate speak” all the time – but you are right about speaking on their level.
Good luck and report back to us on how you are doing!
Thanks for the feedback so far all! A few notes –
1. The suggestions for getting a mentor and approaching higher-ups for lunch etc. are really great. Though scary, because as mentioned I’m a bit shy. I will definitely take that on.
2. I said “toys” on my desk, but all I have is a 4″ wooden carved dog and a frog-shaped stress ball, not literally children’s toys, so it’s not quite as bad as it sounds. Still, they’re gone.
3. I think I do understand my job, but there are challenges. Due to a recent reorganization, the line of managers I report to have no responsibility (or understanding) over half of my job responsibilities. So I’m spending only half of my time on the stuff they care about. The suggestions my manager had were to take on FEWER projects, overestimate the deadlines, blow them out of the water to look like a hero, and be vocal about it at meetings. Maybe I also need to push to get someone to contribute to my reviews who understands the other half of my job, or get my job reorganized. I didn’t seem to have this problem before the reorg. I will take to heart that I need to get better clarity on the urgency and needs of projects, so thank you for recommending that. :)
Maybe you should set up a meeting with your new manager to explain what the part of your job is that they don’t know about? That way you can work together to prioritize your new and old assignments.
Maybe the comment about not understanding your job was because there is overall confusion regarding the roles.
My other question to you would be to really ask yourself if working all those hours is helping you or hurting you. Perhaps your position shouldn’t really require that you work 24/7? If that’s the case, your extra hours and effort may be percieved as 1) Doing something that’s not your job in order 2) Working ineffectively/too slow 3) Taking on too much work
I am always kind of leary of those who work insane hours and don’t seem to be working on a large project that would require it. It just looks to me like the person can’t do their job in the time allotted.
It sounds like your manager is really on your side, which is good. Obviously your work is solid if he is so supportive of you. A lot of managers wouldn’t give you such honest feedback; they’d just be passive aggressive and stab you in the back when you’re least expecting it (personal experience here). But good work alone won’t get you ahead in life or in work – you have to play the game, and your manager is giving you valuable insight in how to do that at your company.
You seem to have a great manager. Not all managers would actually bother to give you such detailed, actionable feedback.
I had a similar experience once: I asked my manager whether it was time for another promotion, and instead he said I was barely meeting expectations and gave me a few pointers on what I needed to change (in my case, it was making more technical contributions). I’ve since refocused my efforts and gotten promoted.
I also wanted to second that there’s no need to make yourself something that you’re not. You can definitely wear pink or purple, just wear it in grown-up ways. And there’s no need to cover up freckles – start with very minimal makeup, see how you feel, and build up from there. I wouldn’t go from zero to full foundation – if you don’t do it right, it will look really unnatural.
However, you might want to cut your hair. Long hair tends to look young and unprofessional, and I think a nice, shoulder-length or shorter haircut might be less trouble than putting your hair up every morning (which might look a bit too stodgy on you if you’ve been wearing loose long hair until now).
One other thing I wanted to second: you say you work from 7 to 5 and then at home. That’s a lot of hours – but in terms of perception, the only thing that tends to matter in people’s perceptions of how much you work tends to be what time you leave in the evening. So, make sure you’re not leaving before your boss! You should restructure your day to make sure people are aware you’re working more hours.
In terms of self-promotion: sadly, it’s crucial. My piece of advice is that if you ever need to write a self-evaluation as part of your review process, have it reviewed by someone else. In your case, asking your dad to proof-read it might work well; or just ask a friend. In general, other people can tell you much better than you can whether you’re really presenting your accomplishments well. This approach of course doesn’t help with presenting your accomplishments in meetings.
Good luck with your career! With your determination, it will turn out well; just make sure you’re spending your energy on things that actually matter.
Agree re: perception — it’s not fair, but c’est la vie – such is life… Your work is no longer labeled with your name by the time it gets past your manager, so the higher ups tend to extrapolate your face time to your work quality.
I think most of your changes are completely right. It’s probably better to implement gradually, like you said. However, I would warn you not to go overboard because you don’t want to hide your personality and come off as cold. I’d leave one or two personal items on your desk, including a photo or two, and wear professional attire in colors and patterns that reflect your personality. Don’t go overboard on being a yes-woman for management, but ifyou have concerns, discuss them with your boss rather than just ignoring his request. And don’t stop having lunch with your dad – keep it to once a week or so. Dad can give you great insight into company culture; think of him as a professional resource and not just your old man.
Also, I already plugged it above, but I’ll just put in one more plug for Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office.
Oh, and also, I agree with not disclosing your age. I’m young for my position, younger than some people I supervise. Most people assume I’m at least 5 years older, and I let them think that. My age is no one’s business but mine.
Also – and then I’m done – keep in mind that being feminine is not the same as being girlish. If your company is mostly run by older men, they probably have a great deal of respect for femininity and don’t expect you to be one of the guys. What they don’t have (professional) respect for is women who remind them of their daughters. So be a woman, be classy, be pretty, but don’t be cute and sparkly.
This has been discussed here before but there is a fine line between “over eager” and “motivated and engaged”. Make sure you are projecting the latter. Over eager makes you seem younger and perhaps not fully cognizant of the task at hand/responsibilities etc.
I agree with a lot of your suggestions to change how you are perceived in the organization, but you missed a big one. The real key to your success is “being present” when you are at work. People don’t know who you are and those that do think you’re not doing a great job. Being present means participating in the business, be that at meetings or in the office culture. You need to interact with your colleagues and the higher ups. Ask them to grab a cup of coffee or go to lunch. Stop by their offices and ask their opinions on issues. Ask about their assignments.
You aren’t working by yourself. You aren’t a consultant. You are a member of a larger organization and you have to start behaving that way. #7 should be implemented quickly. The fact that your work isn’t already in line with management’s values (goals?) is a big problem (and may be the reason your boss said that you don’t understand your job.) Doing work in isolation doesn’t help anyone. You need to tie your work to the company that you work for, not what you think should be done. The one thing I’ve learned in business is that you have to keep the production lines going while giving your manager the report that he wants the way he wants it.
I hate to say it, but having worked in a CPA firm where one of the partners had gone to school w/ an uncle, I can tell you that until you either own the company or leave it, you’re still going to be your father’s daughter – which means a reasonable level of job security but little to no respect for your own work… That said, those are great steps to gain respect in any job, so even if they don’t work as well as you are hoping in this job, they are still good habits to devel0p.
I am not sure I agree. I worked at a family owned company where the owner brought in her son (who I think was 27-28 at the time) to train him to help head the marketing/business development department. I didn’t notice any of what the OP has mentioned in terms of a lack of respect from his coworkers. At that time, he was just there part-time, but when he was there, he seemed to be engaged in what he was doing and made an effort to get to know his coworkers.
I also agree with others that the hours could be contributing to the problem. If people tend to go out once in a while after work and you’re out the door by 5, you’re missing out on a lot of opportunities to really get to know your coworkers in a more casual setting. Even switching the schedule a few days a week to a later time may help in that respect.
Definitely have to put in the same hours as everyone else — but if the owner’s son was there full time as a career instead of part time I think it’s a very different reaction — everyone can play nice w/ the boss’s kid when it’s temporary. Our summer intern was wonderful, and his father is a SVP… but if he had been there on a full time basis instead of the wonderful reception he received for two months it would have been a lot different.
Carla;
I am probably in the same situation; 24 big job at the company I chose during my junior year in college, big responsibilities and my boss’s boss is actually the general manager.
I also noticed that some coworkers with 20+ years at the company see me (and address me) as a child. Yet because of my job I have to interact with the big bosses, government, ministers etc. The more senior employees don’t see the positive feedback I get after every meeting, they simply see a child representing a big company to ‘grown up’ officials.
I did go through the same phase as you did, I changed my attitude, became assertive, dressed more professional etc. (some corporettes might remember my big shopping spree in Cincinnati when I visited the US).
Now, 4 months after my major change, I came up to this resolution:
1 – I proved I can be reliable (had to deal with FOUR crises while my boss was away, so I directly reported to the General Manager). Now, the top managers know I can get things done under stress because I never lose my temper. Do your best to prove you are mature at work, that you wouldn’t have ‘young people’ reactions at work as your more experienced coworkers might apprehend.
2- I toned down the formal dress, I found my comfort zone: slacks, flats, comfortable top; pearl studs and hair in a bun. This way I don’t feel too dressed up and also I am comfortable working extended hours. Of course for formal events I dress appropriately and always impress. Your idea of gradual change in dress is great, you follow your own rhythm.
3- Talk to top management. It is intimidating at first but once you do it you learn a lot. I requested a 15 minute meeting with my General Manager and discussed my goals, and the image I want to project and my contribution to the business. He was actually impressed that I came to him because no other employee would dare set some time aside and discuss such a subject. This depends on your company culture (in my country it’s even harder to approach higher ups) but definitely worth a shot. You don’t have to aim for the big boss but someone you see a model.
I hope you can relate to my experience and see some useful hints; meanwhile I’ll just read all the comments from Corporettes, I am sure I will learn a lot. The quality of advice I get from this blog is just amazing, makes you avoid some career-killers!
Good luck Carla and let us know in few weeks if you see a change :)
This sentence bothers me:
“Despite what I think, make my top priority whatever it is that management values. For example, I may consider a task that keeps our production lines going very important, but if a manager wants line charts instead of bar charts in a monthly report, I should get over my ego and make that my very top priority.”
You’re sort of snarkily saying that you know what’s best, but if management wants you to focus on something stupid and non-productive (making bar charts), then stupid and non-productive it is. A) There may be reasons for what they’re asking, B) they may not be aware of the tradeoffs that they are asking you to make. If it’s B), the proper response is to speak up and let them know that you are happy to bar-chart but you want to ensure that the production line keeps running.
I find the entire post a bit snarky, a bit arrogant, and a bit like something I would expect from a stereotypical 20 something today, especially the “I want to be a consultant” thing. To be a good business consultant, you have to have something worthy of contributing. You can’t even ask your boss the hard questions about your own career. Rather than say, what can I do to improve? You read between the lines and try to make something up that YOU think will solve the problem. You have a few years to go.
This part really bothered me too…
“It would be easy for me to brush this off and say I’ll be who I want. But if I ultimately want to start a consulting business, I have to learn to put on a persona that makes decision-makers percieve me as confident, decisive, capable, and mature.”
So who do you want to be, Carla? Someone who doesn’t contribute to her organization but looks great? It’s not about perception. It’s about reality. You think it’s all about persona. If I dress differently, they’ll look at me differently. But your boss didn’t mention that you look young, dress like a slob, or your father. He mentioned that how you are acting is having an adverse impact on your job performance. You don’t participate or contribute like you’re expected to. He told you that you don’t understand your job. Did you ask him how you can improve your performance? NO. That is what makes you immature, not your looks. And now your excuses are the you look young and you work with your dad. If you contributed to the team, none of the other things would matter. On the flipside, you could change your look, and still do a lousy job in your boss’s eyes. (I’ve worked with brilliant scientists who wore sweatpants to work. No one questioned because of what they contributed to the team.)
Don’t get me wrong. You should make some changes to look more professional. Being well-groomed should always be a priority because it helps. You also need to change your attitude toward your job. You aren’t being paid to do your job because it’s a stepping stone to a consulting career. I’m sure that’s not how your boss views your job.
And the whole shock at being called a junior member of the team. You’re really shocked? You’re in your mid-20s! You are a junior member of the team.
Let me understand. You want to be a consultant and you don’t like meetings? You do know that the meeting is the most important tool for a consultant? Without meetings, you won’t have any clients, mentors, partners, a network of people who can help you get clients, etc. You need to understand meetings. Your boss is right. You just don’t understand your job (or you future career goals).
No, I don’t think the perception is that you are young. I think the perception is that you don’t care.
This.
I can’t tell what line of work you’re in right now, but I’m 25 and have been in consulting since I graduated. The consulting firm I work for is a relatively young start up, but I’m regularly flying solo in a room with a dozen VP’s who are male and in their 40’s or 50’s. They tease me about my age, but I also ask them insightful questions that show them that I’m tuned into the conversation; once I’ve learned enough to start commenting, I contribute, and my work is deeply appreciated.
The things you put in your action plan are good starts – you have to look sharp at all times. More importantly, though, you have to be deeply engaged in what’s going on at your company — this is what will make or break you.
I just got exciting news! Was asked to do an in-person interview in about a week for a research position at a VA medical facility, as a program specialist for a patient centered medical home program! I’m an applied psychologist/evaluator with an emphasis on healthcare interventions so this is really a dream job for me (esp. since my grant funded position will be ending in about 8 months and this position is a $25k pay bump from the NPO I’m currently at!). Any suggestions for interview prep, etc? I’ve made myself a “study packet” on the patient centered medical home model, got some info on the VA healthcare programs in general, and what was available about the location I’m interviewing at specifically. My previous employment has been doing research for NPOs, which are a bit more relaxed re dress codes (read the “fun” suit, not the interview suit). So I’ll be interview suit-shopping this weekend… I’m so excited! It would be so great to continue doing the type of health care research I love, but getting to focus on the research rather than spend time worrying about/trying to get more funding!
All of those sound like great ideas. I’ve worked in VAs in the past (and LOVED it) and am so excited to hear about someone else excited to take care of America’s Veterans.
One thing that I was uneducated about when I started at the VA was the medical problems associated with each conflict and the implications of these…Agent Orange, PTSD, traumatic brain injury, etc. Looking into some of these will help you understand the patient population, which is unique. Often, larger VAs have specific focuses (the one I worked at has a huge oncology focus as well as spinal cord rehab) and those patient populations can be brought in from all over the region.
Also, I don’t know about the VA you’re interviewing at, but in the large VA I worked in, fashion was not a priority for many, so I think a sedate plain suit will be fine, but I don’t think you’ll need to agonize over whether peep toes are appropriate…most people are not paying attention.
Best of luck! The VA has its quirks, but it is an amazing health care system with very low overhead and impressive systems in place. It makes me happy to think that people are excited to work there, because it’s reputation is far worse than reality, IMO.
Great – and so glad to hear there is another evaluator on this blog! Go to the American Evaluation Association’s website. There is lots of stuff there on “what evaluation is”, “what it contributes to performance” whether measured as meeting objectives or working smarter/more cheaply. That can help you with your elevator speech about what you have to offer.
I too work in the health care evaluation arena and would be thrilled to get to work on anything that improved patient outcomes or risk management/patient safety.
Familiarize yourself to with the VA system’s quality measures. US news and World Report’s health care institution rankings always ranks them highly for things like cost effectiveness, patient safety and outcomes. As an interviewer, I’d like it if you knew that about us as well. You should also familiarize yourself with the challenges and recent criticism about mental health and tbi (traumatic brain injury) treatment related to Iraq and Afghanistan – and how you’d measure improvment. The VA is no longer just about cirrhosis and lung cancer in Vietnam vets.
thanks! Actually am an AEA member, my MA is in applied psych and evaluation (from CGU) and I teach a graduate level class on applied program evaluation for a local uni – so I’ve got the eval basics covered – all the work I’ve done since getting my MA has been health care eval – just with NPOs (community clinics, county hosp, etc.) not the VA – so def. different org culture and patient population. Great suggestion re the rankings! I will def. check them out.
Well, if by some chance you wind up at Fort Hood (big VA in central TX) just post that somewhere – any where – and we can compare notes. I’m not there, but I’m close. Good luck.
It sounds like you have really thought things through, and that you have an action plan to move in the right direction! Congrats! However, it seems like you already knew what the right things to do were (dress neatly, get rid of toys on your desk, etc.), which makes me wonder why you weren’t doing them in the first place when you knew this job was an important step to reaching your goals. Is this really the right fit for you? Could you be subconsciously sabotaging yourself?
If you are serious about following your own advice, I would suggest doing it sooner rather than later. A drastic change in attire, attitude, and working space will indicate to your managers that you ARE taking their feedback seriously. A slow change might go unnoticed.
One additional piece of advice: Find yourself a mentor or two in the office as soon as possible who can give you guidance.
Oops! This was supposed to be a reply to Carla’s 5:23 post. Ignore!
I am glad to hear that not everyone loves a meeting. Today, I was invited to a meeting that was set to take place between 2 informational sessions of a conference/meeting so that we can “briefly discuss the next meeting that will be held the following week”. The topics to discuss: issues that were introduced and briefly discussed at our last meeting. Hilarious! This committe is mostly comprised of a particular group in my organization (not mine) that loves to send email circles. I was carbon copied on an email where Person A found an article concerning this project. They forwarded it to Persons B-G. Person G forwarded it to Person H-K and also Person C. Person K forward the email to Person A and claimed to have just found this great article. Person A forwarded that message (with her original email at the bottom and copied into the top as a new message to Persons B-K and I was carbon copied.
And every single person is an engineersego should know better. Absolutely hilarious!
Had an interesting conversation this week I wanted to share. Showed up to a two-day settlement conference with client and other side wearing a suit. Apparently client had sent an email requesting we all wear business casual for strategic reasons, but I literally didn’t get the memo. The male partners showed up in suits regardless, and the female partner in business casual. The client specifically requested that the men remove their jackets ties, but didn’t say anything to me. So I asked the partners whether I should switch out my jacket for a cardigan and/or wear business casual on the second day. The male partner said “No one can ever tell with women whether you’re business casual or formal, all the same to us. It must be so easy.” I wanted to laugh at the thought that women’s choices were easy! But it was interesting to hear that perspective. Anyway, the female partner agreed with my thought that I should remain in a suit — better for young women to be taken seriously, she said.
That is funny! Maybe they see the skirt and it confuses them, lol!
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Signed up today….really impressed with the number of stores they link to. Now if they only linked to Talbots….. Thanks for the tip!
No problem ;-)
I love being able to share the awesome stuff I find online w/ y’all!
Help — I recently (and I do mean recently) started dating an attorney… He’s invited me to go with him to the state chief justice’s summer barbecue (he worked for the justice previously — currently he is a clerk in a state court, and interviewing for a position with the DOJ for when the clerkship ends at the end of the month, so I know there’s some networking attached to this event)…
SO – I know it’s fairly casual — but is there anything I should stay away from wearing/saying/doing? Thanks for the moral support as always :-)
…for a laugh, by the way, I asked him what the dress code was… he replied that men wore “khakis or pants with shirts or polo shirts” and women wore “skirts…or maybe sundresses? Or pants”… basically useless, but amusing.
Obviously no shoes that would be difficult to walk in or get stuck in grass. I’d probably go with a casual knee-length dress and flats.
^^I agree that nice sundress and flats should be fine.
In my experience, the judges I know are much more easy-going than the attorneys. It could be the life experience or the job security, but judges are much more willing to laugh off a small faux pas that doesn’t matter past that singular moment. I think they realize that everyone makes mistakes, some people make bigger mistakes than others, and the really small social faux pas that someone may make is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of life. So just relax and you’ll be fine!
But no dead lawyer jokes. And if the attorneys tell stupid jokes that you don’t understand because you never learned the Rule in Dumfries’ Case or something crazy like that, don’t worry.
Shayna: not to stalk you but I know from your previous posts how hard you worked on getting in shape and everything and so just wanted to write a little congrats!
Hope it doesn’t come across as patronising (am in the same situation!)
Not patronizing at all — and I’m totally wowed that you remember! Thanks!
Does anyone have any suggestions for a brand of suits that would fit a size 6-8 with long arms? My co-worker is tall-ish (probably around 5 ft 9) and has a hard time finding suits that reach her wrist. I am shorter and bigger than her and have no idea what stores like Banana Republic or Ann Taylor or Talbots fit like.
Thanks for any help.
My 5’11” friend swears by BR’s tall sizes and occasionally J. Crew (although she is not a fan of J. Crew pant lengths). She avoids Ann Taylor but I don’t think it’s due to sizing. She’s never found any jackets that fit at Loft though.
She’s a medical resident, so she doesn’t have the budget to try more expensive stores.
I’m 5’9″ and go for BR and JCrew Tall sizes. I don’t know what their pants fit like, since I only wear skirt suits, but the jackets have nice long arms and a longer torso.
I’m 5’9″ with long arms and legs (no torso) and the BR tall sizes work well for me.
The problem (well, *my* problem) with tall sizes at J.Crew and Banana is the proportions are off. They take the same regular size garment and just make the legs or sleeves longer without adjusting anything else. I’m long in the torso so a “tall” jacket whose waist hits the middle of my ribcage is useless.
I’ve found Pendleton skirts are very well made and come in lengths that are law-firm-appropriate (i.e. not mid-thigh, where J.Crew and Banana hit me), and Brooks Brothers frequently has tall sizes that work for me. Boden gets a lot of love on this site and I find their tailoring to be very baggy, but they do have a lot of tall sizes (and I can usually have things taken in for a better fit).
Um…Brooks Bros doesn’t make talls. But they do cut things long. If you have a short torso, JCrew should work. Long torso no. I have a short torso and monkey arms and legs (36″ inseam), 5’11”. JCrew suits are perfect, save for the fac that they assume I have a bigger bust than I do!
They used to.
oh! And if you live in a city with Benetton stores their suits are great for tall women.
Is anyone a scooter rider out there? I’m so excited- I just bought my first one! Anyone have any riding jacket suggestions? I’d love to go with a cute leather one, but a vented fabric one is probably more practical, right?
Since I’ve only ridden them on vacation before, I’m taking it to a parking lot this weekend to practice my figure 8s. I do have to commute in a full suit to court once a week. Any tips?
—
Totally unrelated question:
I have a really wide forefoot with short toes. Therefore, when I try on peep toes, my toes don’t peep! You can’t see them at all. I’ve avoided buying them so far. Is it weird to have a visible blank space at the front of your shoe? Should I keep avoiding them?
*Sigh* I wish the peep toe trend would cool down or go away.
Yay, another scooter rider! Welcome to the world of two-wheeled fun, D10. 95mpg rocks! I have been riding for 15 years, and my bikes have ranged from giant 700 pound 1100cc touring machines to my current 125cc Yamaha Vino scooter. Some things I’ve learned along the way:
My first and most important advice is to sign up for Motorcycle Safety Training. Yes, motorcycle. The MSF is the best training you will find and will absolutely make you a better, safer and more confident rider. Some of the courses will allow you to take the class on a scooter, but even if they only use regular (small!) motorcycles, it is 100% worth it. It may even save your life. http://www.msf-usa.org/
Jackets: I have had a bunch of different riding jackets over the years. If you plan to ride in any sort of inclement weather, go for a cordura-type waterproof style. For a cute ventilated leather style, check out Cortech’s LNX jacket. I have the leopard print one and between the perforations and light color, it is great in really hot weather. http://www.tourmaster.com/xcart/catalog/LNX-Leather-Jacket-p-180_27.html
My current favorite jackets, though, come from GoGo Gear, a brand new company. Owned by a woman, they design jackets with full armor and abrasion resistant linings, but look like fashion jackets. I have the military style and LOVE it. Also, the owner is committed to making plus sizes that really fit real women, if that’s what you need. http://www.scooter-girls.com/
If you will be commuting in a suit, I recommend that you wear at least helmet, gloves, protective jacket and boots. I understand that it can be tricky to change in and out of pants and I often ride in a skirt. But if you can carry your work shoes and wear some sort of over-the-ankle boots, it will really help. Knee high is better and will cover what the skirt does not. The most common “almost accident” is putting your foot down at a stoplight and finding the ground slippery due to oil, gravel, sand or just a pothole. Having sturdy shoes will make the difference between sliding a bit then recovering and falling over in pain and embarrassment. Or worse: scratching your bike!
If you do happen to tumble at low speeds, gloves will be your very best friend. You WILL land on your hands. Padded is best. Deer skin can get wet and will stay soft when it dries out.
And even if your state does not require a helmet, wear one. Since you are posting on Corporette, I assume you are intelligent and well-educated. Your brain is your best asset. Protect it. Even a slow speed fall can do brain damage. Full-face is best. Get at least a 3/4 helmet. The beanie types are practically worthless unless someone drops a brick on you from above. As long as the helmet is DOT certified, price point is not too important until you are going freeway speeds. (Expensive helmets tend to be much quieter.)
What type of scooter do you have? Photo of my little blue baby: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_o38elnpSIho/TF2FfuB7gbI/AAAAAAAAEtw/VIJwalNMQ5o/s400/IMG_5578.JPG
Sorry this is so long! Can you tell I’m excited to know there is at least one other scootin’ Corporetter?
Second the Rider Training advice!
Also advise against wearing earrings under the helmet (to prevent tearing them out when removing the helmet).
Watch out for crazy people! have fun!
i love the bear…it makes me want my own scooter!
Sorry to reply so late. I was busy riding all over town :)
Thanks for the great advice! I love the GoGo Gear jackets- they are exactly what I was looking for. I’ll probably get the Vintage or the Trench.
I’m definitely on board with the helmet advice. I’ve done some DOT work and I’ve seen too many pictures of wrecks and bodies to take a chance.
I have a 2008 Vespa LX50 in silver with a black seat. It was a demo model, so I got it at half price because it had a few cosmetic scratches. Since I’m the first titled owner, I still get the factory warranty. I’m already in love.
Your patterned seat is really cute. Happy riding!
Carla;
I am probably in the same situation; 24 big job at the company I chose during my junior year in college, big responsibilities and my boss’s boss is actually the general manager.
I also noticed that some coworkers with 20+ years at the company see me (and address me) as a child.
I did go through the same phase as you did, I changed my attitude, became assertive, dressed more professional etc. (some corporettes might remember my big shopping spree in Cincinnati when I visited the US).
Now, 4 months after my major change, I came up to these resolutions:
1 – I proved I can be reliable (had to deal with FOUR crises while my boss was away, so I directly reported to the General Manager). Now, the top managers know I can get things done under stress because I never lose my temper. Do your best to prove you are mature at work, that you wouldn’t have ‘young people’ reactions at work as your more experienced coworkers might apprehend. Also a little note about working at night, no one knows you are working that time unless you say it. We don’t have the billable hours system, so I make sure to send at least one or two emails when I work from home so people know I was working that time (a little shallow, yes, but it works for me).
2- After going formal for two weeks, I toned down the formal dress, I found my comfort zone: slacks, flats, comfortable top; pearl studs and hair in a bun. This way I don’t feel too dressed up and also I am comfortable working extended hours. Of course for formal events I dress appropriately and always impress. Your idea of gradual change in dress is great, you follow your own rhythm (and company’s dress code).
3- Talk to top management. It is intimidating at first but once you do it you learn a lot. I requested a 15 minute meeting with my General Manager and discussed my goals, and the image I want to project and my contribution to the business. He was actually impressed that I came to him because no other employee would dare set some time aside and discuss such a subject. This depends on your company culture (in my country it’s even harder to approach higher ups) but definitely worth a shot. You don’t have to aim for the big boss but someone you see a model.
I hope you can relate to my experience and see some useful hints; meanwhile I’ll just read all the comments from Corporettes, I am sure I will learn a lot. The quality of advice I get from this blog is just amazing, makes you avoid some career-killers!
Good luck Carla and let us know in few weeks if you see a change :)
I have on occasion read the posts from all y’all who were stuck in the office over the weekend and thought to myself how happy I am that I decided against a law degree and that I work in government and not the private sector. I may not make as much money, I thought smugly, but I have good benefits, ample vacation time and never, ever have to come in on weekends.
Well ha ha ha the joke is on me. We have a hard Monday deadline and I was in the office until 9pm last night. Got in at 11am this morning and will likely be here until at least 7pm tonight and may well have to come in again tomorrow.
At least this is an exceptional rather than regular occurrence. All you corporate lawyers for whom this is routine have my deepest sympathies.
N.B.: You could still have gotten a law degree, worked in government, had good benefits, ample vacation time, and could have gone home on the weekends.
Hi eveyone! So I’m heading into law school OCI and I have a question for the group about pearls. My mom has some strands of various lengths, pearl sizes, and colors. I have two suits — a black one and a navy pinstripe. I like the idea of using the pearls but I don’t want to look old, or be distracting in my interviews. Can anyone lend any suggestions? Or do’s / don’ts?
Try a classic single strand of small to mid-sized pearls, probably an 18″ one is best. Large pearls tend to be more of an older lady look, and long or multiple strands tend to be more for evening than day.
To all the San Francisco-area litigator Corporettes out there: I’m an attorney, now working in legal services, in Southern CA (LA, OC, SD, etc.) I’m heading up to San Francisco next week and I’m looking to learn more about civil litigation practice up there. Would any of you be willing to meet up with me? I could come to your office for coffee, take you to lunch, etc. – whatever works with your schedule. Or if there are enough of us, maybe we could have a mini-Corporette meet-up in SF! I would really appreciate anything I can get here. What do you think? Thanks in advance!
What do you mean by “legal services” – contract attorney providers a la Robert Half? Doc management vendors? More information please, because a meet up could be fun, though frankly I’m not that interested in getting pitched.
@SF Bay Associate: thanks for the response! I’m not a salesperson and honestly couldn’t pitch my way out of a paper bag. I work for a relatively new mediation company. We are looking to grow in the SF area but I figure before we can do that, I need to know more about life as an SF litigator. Every county has its quirks (as I learned during my time as an associate down here in LA) and I’m just in the information-gathering stage. No pitches, I promise! :)
Please let me know if you’re still interested … in any case I’d love to meet some other Corporettes.
Pear ladies – there’s a cute new tweed dress at Nordstrom from Classiques. Mainly a cream base with bits of brown and black and other warm tones, so it looks very versatile. Would go with brown, black, or skintone accessories and shoes really nicely. Nice texture to it.
During my personal shopper appointment last weekend, I bought a gray plaid (subtle blue stripes) with an asymmetrical vneck, ruching on top, and an inset waist. I was wavering because it felt snug across my hips, and was pretty different looking, but another corporette pointed out last week that the whole point of a PS is to stretch boundaries. True. So I tried it on for the sales associate and she was enthusiastic, but having worked retail, I am a bit suspicious of salesperson opinions. But after she brought down the tailor, a little old Persian woman who looked absolutely no nonsense, who said it actually fit great and I had enough room in the hip area (apparently I am a bit paranoid), I decided to keep it. Thanks to the Classiques cut, which actually has room for hips, I’m in a 2, instead of a 4 (and a 10 in Theory hahahahaha).
I also ordered http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3031938/0~2376780~6009391~6014865~6014869~6014876?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=category&searchtype=&pbo=6014876&P=1, which I believe Legally Brunette recommended. This dress is $110 in store, though still full price online- $218! I hope it fits.
Thank goodness for Classiques, and thanks to the Corporettes for helping me expand my horizons.
“another corporette pointed out last week that the whole point of a PS is to stretch boundaries”
That was me (I think) and I am happy you decided to keep the dress, which I’m sure looks great on you :).
Hey! I’ve been waiting for that dress to go on sale, why in the world is it $218 online and $110 in the store??
I ended up buying this dress in the store for $100. I really like the colors and I think it flatters my figure well. I will probably end up removing the belt and asking the tailor to nip in the waist a bit more.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3088839/0~2376780~6009391~6014865~6014868?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=category&searchtype=&pbo=6014868&P=1
Amen on loving Classiques. I want to branch out and try other brands, but Classiques fits me so well.
We must have very similar measurements, SF Bay — I’m a size 4 in CE dresses as well, sometimes a 2.
Brown and black are “skintone” for many of us ;-b. Thanks for the recommendation though! I love tweed!
SF Bay, I bought the Diamondaback dress as well for $97.90. I had to call the store directly. For some reason online it’s $218. Thanks for the heads up!
Hijack. I am transferring from my law firm’s New York office to the London office, probably permanently. For any of you Londoners out there – any advice about how to dress for the endless rain? My question isn’t so much about dressing for work, more about the weekends/outside of work!
I’m trying to decide whether I need a new pair of rain boots. I’ve read that rain boots aren’t really worn in the UK, except in the country. Do any of you ladies know whether rain boots would be appropriate in London, like they are in NYC (outside of work, of course) or whether I’d look like I just returned from a hike? If they are appropriate, are bright colors common (think Hunter turquoise) or should I stick with black/navy?
Also, do people wear rain coats? Trenches? Or just use umbrellas?
Thanks!
I would say a classic trench and umbrella would be better than a raincoat. Also, most people just do not spend that much time *walking around* and so do not need rain boots (if you mean wellington boots). They are generally seen as more trendy and young. But winter boots are fine and would deal well with British weather quite well as it is not really that extreme.
I have no advice, but I am insanely jealous! Congrats on the transfer and best of luck in your new home!
I’m so jealous – I love London. But one important thing there is to make sure your raincoat has a hood AND is long enough to cover your bottom when you sit. It sounds trivial, but it’s a pain in the neck not to be able to sit down on a wet bench or seat or whatever. When I was there, I had my coat and then an ’emergency’ umbrella tucked into my purse, in case the wind was epically strong and my coat couldn’t handle it.
You’re right about the rain boots only being worn in the country. They are really only seen as necessary when you’re tromping through the mud, not through regular streets.
PS – unsolicited advice. You would be surprised what products aren’t available in the UK that you can get here (and vice versa). I didn’t do this before I went, but next time I am definitely going to look at all the products I can’t live without (my certain brand of hairspray, some Sephora makeup) and food (peanut butter) and make sure they’re available in the UK, or if you need to pack a few when you go. Believe me, you might be surprised at what is difficult/impossible to get in another country, and you don’t want to add stress to your move by figuring out which British product is the equivalent to your favorite moisturizer, or whatever.
Sorry, one more thing – if you are on any prescriptions, bringing a letter from your doctor saying that you have been prescribed this amount of this drug for this reason will smooth the way towards getting a refill without having to go through questioning or tests or anything. Make sure you bring your rx bottles too.
Sorry for all that, but I don’t want anyone else to make the mistakes I made! :)
^^ This is actually really important to do, especially about the prescriptions. While it’s not a problem for most drugs, sometimes drugs are not available in other countries. For example, the birth control pill I’m on is only available in the US (no, it’s not special; the company just didn’t want to pay the extra money to get it approved elsewhere). Having something from your doctor detailing the drug, the generic name, the chemical compound, and the reason why you were prescribed the drug will be a HUGE help. This way, when you go to a new doctor to get a new prescription, the doctor can either prescribe your same drug (which may go by a different name, which is why the generic and chemical compound names are important) or a drug that treats your ailments.
I don’t know how it is in the UK, but French pharmacists can’t fill US prescriptions without a French prescription. So be prepared to have to go to a doctor if you have some major medications that you take on a regular basis. Ask your doctor for a few sample packs or to approve extra refills so that you can stock up and go over there will enough medication such that you won’t have to go straight from the airport to the doctor/pharmacy.
LOL at the peanut butter! I lived in Oxford for a year and LOVED the British peanut butter. My roomies hated it and had their parents ship jars of Jif, etc. over every few months. The peanut butter situation was the biggest complaint from all of the Americans.
Ahhh… memories…
I am so jealous of the OP! Have a great time :)
Congrats and welcome!
Reading your post did amuse me a little based on the fact that, apart from a little shower yesterday, it hasn’t really rained properly for weeks! On English standards, the summer has actually been pretty good – although watch this space and in about five minutes I will be posting about the torrential downpour that has started and won’t end for another two weeks.
I don’t have any rainboots, don’t know anyone that does for any other purpose than the countryside of music festivals. There are plenty around in the shops, but they are considered more casual and should be fine for the weekends. Generally people do tend to with nice ankle/knee boots with that spray protector.
I know you didn’t ask for general culture shock-advice, but thought I would give some anyway (and you are more than welcome to tell me where to go). I’ve worked in both the US and the UK and the working environment shouldn’t cause many issues, but the one big thing that English people find strange when they go to the US and my American friends have found off when they come here, is the massive difference in customer service. You’re coming from NYC, so you’re probably not going to find it so weird, but remember that people in shops are not on commission and therefore have very little incentive to be super helpful like they do in the US. You will get some really nice helpful people, but don’t take it personally if someone just looks down their nose at you and huffs and puffs when you ask for another size.
Oh and don’t take the tube if you can avoid it – there’s no AC. And ALWAYS stand on the right on the escalator ;-)
Welcome and I’m sure you will have a fantastic time!
Some more unsolicited advice, it gets light really really early in the morning, like 3:30. It drives me nuts whenever we visit my husband’s family. And stays light much later as well, about 10:30 in the peak of summer. Also there is a difference in tipping, or at least there used to be, they don’t tip as much as we do over here in restaurants (if at all).
Thanks so much for all your responses (and for all the unsolicited advice – I would never have thought of some of the things you all brought up). It’s all very helpful! And everyone’s enthusiasm is also very encouraging – I am very excited about my move but having the inevitable sad feelings about leaving New York.
Yes definitely good point to note re tipping – you are expected to tip and standard is about 10%, but if the service is bad, don’t bother tipping at all. There is no ‘compulsory’ tipping as such, although I would always tip unless it was atrocious service, and most people would only tip over 10% if the service was exceptional.
I go to school in Scotland and agree with all the advice above, especially the food thing (regular, non-sugared Cheerios don’t exist in the UK and I LOVE them).
Personally I own and use wellies often, but then again I’m in Scotland. And a student. Invest in waterproof mascara if you don’t have it already, both wind and rain make it runny.
Enjoy!
just an fyi – you might like this blog:
http://www.shesnotfromyorkshire.com/
FYI–I posted about rashguards (SPF shirts that are breathable and can be worn in the water) earlier this summer. Athleta has several on sale, and until midnight tonight, an extra 20% off if you enter the code HANG20 at checkout. I picked one up for $15.99.
London is a really diverse city and pretty much anything goes fashion wise.
Wellington (Rain) boots aren’t really worn in the cities, but are essential for country weekends or festivals – in fact pretty much anyone in wellies in any UK city at this time of year will also have a backpack and be on their way to/from a festival!
However it is useful to have a pair handy because the UK countryside is worth visiting and they are essential for very heavy rain and snow in winter. The snow can turn quickly to slush and combined with the salt / grit it will quickly ruin a nice pair of leather boots.
Bright colours and patterns are fine.
Coat wise, anything goes. You might decide to go for comfort and buy a performance waterproof which will work in town and country, and use your more business orientated coats for ‘going out’ at weekends.
Some bars/restaurants/private clubs have dress codes which prohibit denim, trainers, baseball caps, shorts etc.
We don’t have endless rain but we do have quite changeable weather, so layering is important. Offices and shops are heated / air conditioned to quite different degrees which doesn’t help. Pavements consist of cobbles through to granite, so vertiginous heels are usually left to evenings out or those in high fashion jobs.
Umbrellas regularly demise in high winds, so I usually buy cheap and cheerful. Hats and gloves keep you warm as well and keep the rain off.
But overall your hobbies and activities will determine your weekend dress to some extent.
I’m wondering if anyone has any thoughts on some possibilities to ramp up my workouts? Several years ago I started running (part of an effort to lose weight gained during grad school), and am now a pretty dedicated – if slow – runner. I’m down about 40 pounds and in much better shape now, but could stand to lose another 10 – 15 pounds. More importantly, I feel like I need to add some variety to my routine and to move beyond just doing straight cardio.
I’ve had success “motivating” myself in the past by working on fairly short-term but highly-targeted programs (like the couch-to-5K and an intermediate 5K training program), and was considering something along the same lines. One option I’ve considered is signing up for 10 sessions with a personal trainer at my gym, with the intention of getting more familiarity with weight training. The advantage is that hopefully I’d be able to use what I learn as part of a long-term workout strategy; since I have some neck and wrist problems, I’ve always been a little afraid of really trying things on my own. Other options would be the P90X program or a boot camp offered by my gym. Either would be less money (though I would need to invest in the gear for the P90X) but potentially also less useful long-term. Can anyone offer other advantages/disadvantages for any of these approaches beyond the obvious I’ve already mentioned?
Oooh, I’m in similar shoes. I’m getting back into working out (not quite where you are, but trying to figure out how to kickstart). My husband is buying me something as a gift (I asked him, don’t worry, it’s not weird or criticizing) but I can’t decide between a personal trainer or a boot camp. I’m leaning toward boot camp because I’d potentially like to make new friends, and I think my competitive spirit would get started with it. But I’d love to hear what anyone else thinks.
I love my boot camp programs and would highly recommend it. That said, these programs are very different depending between on the gym where you take them and the trainer who runs it. The BC I do is pretty focused on circuit training (using weights and resistance bands) with cardio reps in between. I have been to other BCs that are more, shall we say, intense and involve things like crawling on the ground, carrying objects, etc. I was also a runner pre-BC and have noticed a good difference in my arms and abs. If you aren’t training for something specific, this might be a good place to start.
I LOVE weight training. I thought I would hate it, but I picked it up in my last year of law school for stress release. Not only does building lean muscle help pick your metabolism up, but it also gets your heart rate going too (not that it is a substitute for you standard cardio). The nice thing about it for weight loss purposes is that you aren’t just burning off the extra calories you took in that day, you are upping your metabolism so that you are burning off extra calories all the time. I was super bummed that I had to give it up since I’ve been pregnant – not for the weight loss (obviously) but for the stress relief. I’ve found that nothing is quite as satisfying as pushing through that last set after a bad day.
I’m not a super coordinated person, and I have found through many doomed attempts that I’m not an exercise class person; so, I would stay away from the boot camp/home video type stuff. That, however, is just a quirk of my personality. Whatever you do is great, and good for you losing all that weight running (I’m also not a runner – speed walker yes, runner, no). Just thought I’d throw in my thoughts about the benefits of weight training.
If you want to add a little spice to your workout routine, but don’t want to commit just yet to a trainer or an expensive program — I honestly recommend Jillian Michaels’ 30-Day Shred DVD. SERIOUSLY! (It’s not just me talking. There are nearly 2,000 reviews on Amazon for this DVD alone.) This is the best investment of less than $10 I’ve made in my life.
Level 1 kicked my butt for the first few weeks, but I have hardcore athletic friends who were dripping with sweat completing Level 2 — let alone Level 3. I really think you’d see a huge difference in your body in just 30 days with this workout — http://www.amazon.com/Jillian-Michaels-30-Day-Shred/dp/B00127RAJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1281309997&sr=8-1
OP here – interesting recommendation. I looked through a number of the reviews, and it does seem like it would be worth the (very) small investment. One question, it looks as though handweights are required – if so, what weight(s) do you use? Couldn’t find anything looking through the “most helpful” recs, and there’s nothing I hate more than expecting instant gratification when my Amazon shipment arrives and then not getting it!
Plus I have to admit that Biggest Loser is one of my few guilty pleasures….
Oops, meant to say one of my few guilty TV pleasures! Got plenty of other things that fall in that category!
I used 2.5 lbs when I started, eventually moved up to 5. You can get these almost anywhere (City sport, target, etc)
I got my weights from TJ Maxx for like $8 or so. I am using 3 lb weights just for toning, but my friend (the one who I said was really fit) used 5 lb weights. It may not seem like a lot, but because of the repetitions and intensity of the workout, you should use a weight that is a bit lighter than you would normally choose.
Wow, I spent about an hour last night going through all of the reviews. I think I am going to buy the DVD, although I have never, ever used a home workout video before. Seems like a tremendous workout. Thanks for the recommendation, legallicious.
You’re welcome, Clerky! Try it and let me know what you think!
Does your gym offer Body Pump? That’s a great and fun way to incorporate weights into your workout and the work pays off quickly in terms of building strength and definition. If you don’t know what it is: it’s a 50 minute choreographed weight-lifting class; you do 10 tracks focusing on 10 different muscle groups (squats, triceps, biceps, shoulders, abs, etc.) The music is awesome and 99.5% of all of the Body Pump instructors I’ve met are fabulous.
Yes, but unfortunately not early enough in the morning, at least during the summer. I probably should have mentioned that really only the times that boot camps are offered work for me. Thanks for the tip, though, I keep an eye out for it during the fall.