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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 262 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Fashion

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Paige Denim Verdugo JeggingsSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. With fall nearly here, we're starting to think about boots, and long comfy sweaters, and, well, jeggings — more comfortable than skinny jeans, less see-through than leggings! We've heard great things about this pair from Paige Denim, and we like the classic blue look. They're $179 at ShopBop. Paige Denim Verdugo Jeggings

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. lawyer

    I’d like to be the first to say I LOVE my jeggings. I am not, NOT a “trendy” dresser; but I got a pair of Daddy Long Legs last winter and I wear them more than I thought I would. I especially love them for long plane rides; they are incredibly comfortable. Looking forward to wearing them with boots this fall!

  2. Grump

    Ugh, when I lived in the UK everyone (including the fat chicks) wore jeggings – not a good look unless you have legs like Gisele.

    • Anon

      Anyone remember the movie “Hackers”?

      “Spandex – it’s a privilege, not a right.”

      • houda

        This just made me laugh – I second this. I am one of those people who need few more months at the Gym before “gracefully” slipping into one of those without “shocking” someone.

    • E

      THIS. i thought i just about died when i moved to London and this was the trend. If you must go jeggings, longer top over it please!

    • K

      Maybe I should move to the UK. I’ve been wanting to buy skinny jeans and/or jeggings but I’m pear-shaped and need to lose 5-10 pounds so I just haven’t gone there.

    • Deborah

      I haven’t even LOOKED at jeggings or leggings or *skinny* anything, as I just don’t think women of a *certain age* (which includes me) should be wearing stuff like this. Plus I cannot imagine that my hips will look good in it. At all.

      • goirishkj

        I would seriously suggest trying them on anyways. I was against this trend UNTIL one of my friends wore skinny jeans (she had to be convinced by one of her friends) and I tried them on. I think they are a lot more versatile than lots of people think–at least that was true in my case! Since I was converted, I’ve noticed all ages and body shapes wearing them and rocking the look so it is worth a try.

    • Anonymous

      Oh my gawd, fat chicks wearing comfortable and trendy pants! Quel horreur! Don’t they know they should be clad exclusively in potato sacks?

      • Anon

        ROFL
        But I do have to agree that its not a good look if you are not wearing longer top…irrespective of your size. Even if you are unfortunate enough to have a 7 yr old boys ass.

      • AS

        It’s so true. Fatties don’t need nice things, or even to look fashionable. I don’t even know why we let them out of the house.

        • Anon

          It isn’t an issue of looking fashionable – it is one of wearing flattering clothing. Maybe this makes me a terrible person, but I’ve yet to see an larger, not-in-shape woman look good in skin-tight pants. I’ve seen many larger, not-in-shape women look FANTASTIC in a variety of other types of pants/skirts/dresses (and not tent-like huge baggie clothes, either).

          • v

            It’s not about being a terrible person. It’s about assuming that (a) what you find attractive is universal, and (b) other people should be dressing to your idea of attractiveness.

          • anon - chi

            That seems unfair. Anon didn’t say that larger women can’t be every bit as beautiful/attractive/fashionable as smaller ones – just that skin tight pants aren’t flattering on everybody. FWIW, I agree.

          • Anon

            Thanks, anon-chi. In a somewhat related example, I have a smaller chest, and there are certain styles of shirt that I don’t think look flattering on me because I don’t have the goods to rock it – but I think larger-chested women look awesome in these styles!

          • v

            Well, we all have our preferences, but I think it’s worth remembering that fat woman are kind of constantly shamed about their clothing choices and it seems kind of unnecessary to repeat the “fat women look ugly in tight pants” meme. We’ve all heard it. Trust me.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, larger women are never in shape and should never wear tight clothing! You’re so smart.

        • s

          I went to a boutique near me to try on a pair of jeggings. I asked for a size 29. I was informed by the store clerk that they only stock size 23 to size 28. !!!!!

      • Suze

        Well, I have to go out on a limb here. After Eponine posted a few weeks ago about getting some jeggings at AT Loft, I went and checked ’em out – LOVE them. I am waaay over 3 years old (like by nearly half a century), and don’t have legs like Gisele. Just your average tallish size 8/10’ish, and always wishing my hips were just a little narrower, butt rounder/higher, legs longer, 5-1o lbs would magically disappear, etc. In other words, I generally don’t think I look good in very many jeans and would never dream of wearing leggings.

        So, I admit that I initially thought the whole jeggings thing sounded pretty ill-conceived, but I was really pleasantly surprised. Maybe some of you ‘naysayers’ (I mean that sweetly, not meanly) might be surprised too. I do agree that the correct top is important – in my case, a longish sweater looks nice, as does a somewhat flow-y tunic type thing over a cami or tank.

        Just a perspective! Happy weekend all!!

        • Eponine

          I’m happy to have some cooler weather because I got to wear my jeggings tucked into pants :). glad you love yours too! So comfy.

        • Shayna

          Can someone please clarify – jeggings – they look like jeans but are made out of stretchy knit material, correct? B/c I tried on a pair of uber skinny jeans (denim) and they were beyond uncomfortable… like could not bend my knees.

          On the other hand, I have a couple pairs of black leggings that I adore

          • Suze

            Shayna, yes, they ‘look’ like skinny jeans (same style, shape, zippers, pockets, etc), but they are a thick stretchy denim like (and looking) fabric. Which lets you bend everywhere comfortably and does not create ‘smiling crotch’ (my downfall with many regular jeans). They wear great for me…I am starting to sound like a ‘jeggings promoter’ on this thread, so I will shut up now…but they really were suprisingly great (and the AT Loft ones were priced right).

    • Mille

      I am fat and love my jeggings. I’m never going to look thin in anything, so why on earth would I give up pants that look good under oversized shirts and look great with boots? If you don’t want to look at my big fat calves, stay home or just look up. It’s the same with swimsuits with little skirts– that one inch of fabric ain’t doin’ nothin’ for me, honey– no hiding these thighs if I tried.

      Hopefully you have ways to categorize people besides thier looks. If all I am to you is a fat chick, that’s sad.

      And, BTW, I don’t think skintight pants are flattering on anyone. JEggings aren’t exactly skin tight. And they are a thick material that doesn’t show all the lumpy bumpies.

      I’m in entirely too good of a mood today and am being a little flippant about things, but there does come a time when it gets old that someone being fat is an issue. Lastly, if you haven’t seen this, and would like to see some truly skintight pants, I think it is hilarious.

      http://jezebel.com/341625/american-apparel-will-make-you-look-like-a-fat-hooker

      • Amy

        Love that link. Love it. so. much. I hate American Apparel.

        In a world where anything above a size 4 is considered “fat” (just ask the guys over at Above the Law), I’ve decided I’m just not going to worry about it. The attitude that “fat” people shouldn’t leave the house lest they offend someone with their hugeness is really getting old n busted at this point. I’m obviously not going to become a recluse – I have a life to live – so I guess people will just have to put up with me. Just like I have to deal with airheaded girls who talk on their phone about incredibly personal topics in the line at Starbucks, old ladies who glare at my son in the grocery store, and meathead ex-frat-guy types high fiving each other and yelling “DUUUUUDE!!” in restaurants when I’m trying to have a quiet dinner with my family. Unfortunately, the trend is that we are going to have more people to coexist with in this world, not less. So unless people learn some tolerance and how to peacefully live with others despite differences in appearance, outlook, behavior etc., we’re all in for it. That goes for anyone and everyone, at all times. :)

      • Suze

        This!

        Mille, way to be! Good vibes to ya, and I hope you are feeling good w/pg and that all those ‘criminals’ and your stressful office aren’t draining you too much. Here’s the thought for the day (you might not be old enough to appreciate it…but some of us will hear the music of BJ Thomas)…”Everybody’s BEAUTIFUL, in their own way, dah dah,” – the point being YOU are beautiful…I know it without seeing you, and weight is just not part of it. Wear your jeggings in good health and good spirit! hugs – suze

  3. Anonymous

    Been waiting for the open thread. . . Want to say a big “thank you” for the discussion a couple months back about salary negotiation and asking for more money when you deserve it. This is something I NEVER would have done before that discussion made me realize that just doing good work isn’t enough and I need to ask for what I want. I just got myself a 5% raise despite a really sparse budget and no raises for anyone else in my group.

    • A-non-lawyer

      YAY!!! Congratulations!!! It’s spectacular that you asked, and even better that they were able to work with you!

      The ladies here helped me screw up the courage to ask for more on a job offer. I was shot down, though :(

      • BigLaw Refugee

        Even though you were shot down, maybe you’ll benefit in other ways – they might think of you first when an interesting project comes in because they feel they need to make it up to you. Or you may be first in line for a raise when budget improves. If you don’t ask, they just assume that they don’t need to do anything special to keep you happy (bizarre, but that seems to be how managers think).

        And congrats to the Anonymous who did get her raise! Way to go!

    • Lizbet

      Good for you for being brave — that’s huge. And congrats on being successful in it, too! Now you can buy more stuff you see on the site. :)

  4. michiganexpats.com

    Has anyone been on the recruiting side of a career fair before? My first time is next week and while I’ve been to career fairs as a student, being on this side of the table seems very different. Any advice would be appreciated!

    • K

      I’ve been on both sides and I think the recruiting side is much easier. You basically need to look friendly, answer questions, and be prepared to talk about your company, the type of people your company needs and for what roles, and the clients/industry your company serves. Depending on what your company does/the industry you’re in, you might want to be prepared to answer questions about how the economic downturn has affected your company and its hiring needs.

    • Shayna

      It’s hard b/c of the large number of people you’ll meet, but try to jot down notes on the students who make a particularly positive or negative impression since you’ll likely be interviewing at least some of them.

      • michiganexpats.com

        That’s the funny thing. Our company purposefully has a different person at the career fair than interviewing, so I’m not sure if I should keep track of this or not. As a student, I was trying very hard to make a good impressions, but now as a recruiter, it doesn’t make much of a difference, unless I push it.

        • Shayna

          Wow … yeah, unless there’s a superstar or a potential psychopath then you probably don’t need to worry about who the students are. Just smile like other commenters have said and be genuinely enthusiastic about what you do, and who you do it for.

    • nonA

      Be enthusiastic! When interviewing (whether as a student or a lateral), the biggest turn-off were people who couldn’t even pretend to care about their company. It just made me think that I wouldn’t want to work there.

    • Emily

      Make sure you’re addressing everyone who comes to your table, rather than focusing on just the person in front of you who wants to talk in great detail. It can be really hard to do, but sometimes you find out a lot about a candidate when they don’t get a clue that they need to move on.

      • Adara

        Emily, I totally agree! This is so important.
        Another related thing that’s super important is *don’t ramble*. I once saw a recruiter for an important institution (I won’t mention names) just go on and on talking to one person in her sizeable crowd (pretty much everyone at the fair wanted to interview at this institution), and she left not a spare second for anyone’s questions. The students listening, after trying to patiently wait to ask questions or leave resumes as the minutes went by, eventually dwindled down to just a couple. I was astounded! The recruiter’s social tone-deafness definitely didn’t make institution seem like a desirable place to work.

  5. nonA

    PSA: Just bought a ton of things from Land’s End and Land’s End Canvas sale sections – both work and non-work items for crazy low prices. Including Canvas skinny jeans (not jeggings, but I’m working my way up there, maybe) for $17, and lots of sweaters and work tops for hte $10-15 range. Anyway, thought I’d pass it on!

  6. Anonymous

    So, I’m going to Europe in a few weeks (YAY!) and I was wondering if anyone could recomment cute, comfortable shoes for walking the streets all day, preferably in the under $100 range. Not looking for tennis shoes – I have plenty of those – but some kind of flats or boots that will make me feel at least a little stylish and not like I’m wearing a “Dumb American Tourist Here” sign.

    • Cole Haan Fan

      It doesn’t fit your budget (unless you can find a sale on bluefly.com, etc.), but Cole Haan makes the most comfortable and sytlish shoes with the Nike air technology. Cole Haan has plenty of stylish shoes that are comfortable enough to walk around all day as a tourist, and not look like one. It’s worth the investment – the quality is top notch. You will be able to wear the shoes for a few years.

    • A-non-lawyer

      I had some flat Borns that I wore all around Europe for a year. They are so comfy, durable, and stylish.

    • S

      Boots! They will be on everyone else’s feet, and they should be on yours! Best to go for flat boots or ones with a thicker heel (cowboy style or wedge) because thinner heels on cobblestones is tricky. Piperlime has a section for people “on a budget” with lots of great, cheap, boots.

    • KelliJ

      I love Clarkes shoes. I have some of their boots as well and can’t recommend them enough. Great quality, good tread (for those cobblestone streets) and you can find some trendy, yet comfy styles.

    • Cat

      This question seems to come up on nearly every weekend thread, so you might try looking at those as well. Kat, maybe it deserves its own post!

    • Ms B

      First off, avoid running shoes and chunky or brightly colored hiking shoes in Europe. You may as well stick a sign on your forehead that says, “Hi! I’m American!”, which is something to avoid if you want to blend in. If you want to go with something similar to those, stick with “bowling shoe” type shoes in a darker color or some streamlined Pumas in a neutral color.

      Last fall, boots were all the range in Paris. Something black, lower heeled, and either bottom of the knee or scrunchy would blend well (avoid the Uggs). Accompany with a shorter skirt and tights (or skinny pants), a blazer over a chunky sweater, and a knit scarf, attractively wrapped, for best camouflage.

      For something more in the shoe category, I have a fondness for Aerosoles loafers, which you may be able to find at DSW for good prices. Liz Claiborne and Anne Klein make comparable shoes. Sometimes you can find good deals on Donald Pliners, which can be very comfortable. Look for real leather uppers, higher vamps, and chunky heels for the most comfort. Avoid ballerina flats (not enough support), anything with a narrow heel, and anything in suede or very soft leather as it will take a beating and wear poorly.

      Remember to wear hosiery of some type with your shoes to avoid blisters. I always bring a spare pair in my tote during the day because I always get rained on in Europe in the fall and I find myself wanting dry hosiery by afternoon. I also carry Band-aids and some moleskin or blister pads and a little adhesive tape just in case.

    • SC

      Timberland Benin Ballerina… I love these shoes! They are absolutely perfect for walking all day, super supportive and comfortable. I recommend wearing them a few days before your trip to break them in as they made me blister a little in the back. Ever since I broke them in I’ve thought they were more comfy than sneakers.

      http://tinyurl.com/246m2hp

  7. cda

    I seem to remember someone was in the market for pale, pale hosiery a while ago – to them and whoever else is quite fair, check out Calvin Klein stockings. I always just buy the palest color out of habit (redhead) and was shocked to discover I am actually shade #3 or 4 in this brand.

    • Chicago K

      I wasn’t the one in the maket – but can’t say enough good things about the Calvin Klein colors for the very fair skinned. Redhead here too, and this is the only brand I wear for “nude” stockings.

    • liz e

      Yes, I’m super pale, and the only 2 brands I’ve found that actually match my skin are calvin klein and “pale nude” at victoria’s secret…which was discontinued! It was a traumatic moment.

      • mm/dc

        Donna Karen “the Nudes” has a couple of color options that are also extremely pale and sheer.

      • martha

        I used to wear the “pale nude” too. I’ll have to check out the Calvin Klein! Have you tried A01 in Donna Karan the nudes?

  8. Deborah

    Hubby and I have been invited to a fundraising event in October – it’s at the public museum, it’s a Saturday night, and dress code is “cocktail attire.” I’m not sure what to wear. I’ve got lots of great work-wear, but I just think my work appropriate Theory black shift will be too “workish” to wear for a Saturday night event, even if I dress it up with my velvet mules and fishnets. I don’t really want to spend a ton on something sparkly that I’ll never wear, but I’d be willing to invest a little (less than $300) if I can get some use out of it (top/dress/skirt???). Any ideas?

    • - j -

      I still think go sparkly :). Such a classic look to wear a statement necklace over a LBD — perhaps some fun shoes too? That’s part of the fun of the statement pieces: they’re special! And if you found a necklace you liked for relatively low cost, you could spend the rest on fun shoes that you could work in to your work wardrobe.

      I’m thinking: http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/3100253?origin=category&resultback=336 aaaandd http://tinyurl.com/233am6w (may have to skip the fishnets with the peep toe, or just something similar!)

      or

      http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=489311&CategoryID=50723 aannd http://tinyurl.com/2cypofv ??

      Beyond that, if you want to stick with the dress, perhaps a fun and elegant patterned shawl/scarf?

      Good luck!

      • Deborah

        Oooh very pretty. Thanks for the suggestions. Other question though, in Milwaukee in October, it’s cold. Can you/should you wear a peeptoe with sandaltoe stockings? I’ve only worn peeptoes in warmer weather with bare legs.

        • - j -

          Glad to help! I think the peep toe/stockings/sandaltoe thing is a personal choice (sorry, annoying answer) — me personally? i wouldn’t – but perhaps look for a non-peep toe shoe that’s similar (I believe you can search by pumps, then formal or “occasion” on Endless.com and that will limit it – not sure if Zappos limits by peep toe/non. OR you could go stocking free and wear a longer coat (likely what my FL gal self would do). OR if they are solid black stockings, somewhat opaque, I’ve definitely seen them worn with peeptoes and think it’s kinda cute.

          I will gladly live vicariously through you and help shoe shop if you want help finding closed toe fabulousity ;).

          • - j -

            Er, to clarify: I think you absolutely can wear bare legs or sandaltoe skin tone panty hose and peep toes to formal events in winter. ;)

    • E

      You could pair your black shift with the mules and the fishnets and then pick up one of those large, sparkly apron statement necklaces.

  9. D

    Yey! I’ve been waiting for the open thread!

    I recently got a beautiful skirt at a thrift store but have no idea how to wear it. It is light pink, A-line, silk chiffon with a silk waistband, lined (so not see through). According to the tags, its from the Spring 05 Banana Republic collection. It sort of resembles a non-poofy tu-tu. I think it is really really pretty but I have no idea how I can wear it without looking like a five year old.

    Not for work obviously! Help?

    • lawDJ

      I hope it’s not too short because otherwise I think the tu-tu thing might be unavoidable (but if you like it, OWN it :) You definitely want a fitted top and/or jacket in a darker color (black or gray if it looks good on you, or white assuming it doesn’t wash you out). Navy would also work. For a casual weekend day, I think it would work very well with a jean jacket and slouchy boots. For an evening night out, you can do a silver/shiny/metallic top of some kind with a dark fitted blazer and shiny heels.

    • J

      black shrunken blazer and neutral or heather gray tank top (i love how vince tanktops drape). i think a skirt like the one in the photo below would also look really cute with a jacket with tails.
      if you like mixing textures, a chunkier knit sweater and a tissue weight tee (if it were me, i’d probably look for a sweater in a contrasting color and a tee in complimentary color or neutral)
      also, a slimmer fitting boatneck striped shirt would be cute, tucked in.

    • Blueberry

      If I wanted safety, I’d wear it with grey, either plain or patterned, sweater:
      http://www.stylebop.com/grafic/products/120009_a.jpg
      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DJgiymu1ERg/SOKeVC4CqsI/AAAAAAAABTU/rJm6xI3bPlU/s400/grey+sweater.jpeg.bmp
      Button-up underneath a V-neck might be an obvious choice, so I’d add some heavier jewelry for a pop.

      Stripes would also look great. I’m thinking thin navy stripes on white (personally I love a boatneck + marine theme, you could also add some gold jewelry here, or even a strand of pearls) or thick black and white horizontally striped top to bring some weight to the top and understate the pink, maybe with dangly earrings with clear glass elements… Then a camel, grey, or navy warm piece for warmth, such as a cardigan or a blazer.

      If I wanted fun, I’d wear it with a black or brown bomber leather jacket to offset the femininity of the skirt and pair them with a nice pair of knee-high boots.

      and I second the idea of a silver top for a night out, esp. if it’s halter style
      Have fun wearing your lovely purchase!

  10. SF Bay Associate

    Looking for advice regarding living out of a hotel for weeks while in trial-

    I’m going to trial next month in another major city that’s a nonstop flight away, along with a dozen or so associates and partners, and we will be living in our own rooms in a hotel (think Marriott, Hyatt, Westin, Hilton-type, not one of those extended stay hotels with lovely things like kitchens and living rooms). I expect to be living out of the hotel for anywhere from four to ten weeks, depending on how early before trial they decide we need to arrive and how long the trial goes. The hotel is walking distance from one of our offices (not my office), so I will be able to work there.

    I am excited but nervous and have many questions, especially regarding logistics and other things to expect. I imagine the big-4 consultant corporettes are experts at this especially.

    1) How do I live out of a hotel with no kitchen for weeks? Where do I do my laundry? How do I try to eat healthfully despite having zero access to a kitchen? I normally handwash my unmentionables – how am I going to do that? Basically, how do I make living out of a hotel that long suck less?

    2) How do I stand being away from my home, my live-in SO, and my life in general for that long? Do people fly home at all during trials? Do SO’s come down? How did you get through it?

    3) What should I expect in being part of a team in a major, front-page of the business section on the WSJ-type case? At what point do people change into comfortable clothes if working late- 12am? Any office supplies I should be sure to have?

    Any advice or suggestions are very much appreciated. Thank you!

    • Anon

      I don’t know if we are allowed to link to other people’s blogs here or not, but I would recommend girlonraw.com (not me). She’s an intl flight attendant and mostly-raw vegan foodie and she has some great posts and videos on traveling/keeping healthy with in-hotel-room prepared meals and snacks.

    • D

      wow that sounds exciting. No real advice, except to bring a scented candle! I know you aren’t really supposed to, but they can make a hotel room seem that much homelier.

    • Long time lawyer

      1. Your hotel can probably do laundry for you, although it will be pricey. Eating healthy can be a problem, but many hotels have healthier room service items than they used to. I once asked (and got) a hotel to put a microwave in my room (it already had a minibar), so I could microwave Nutri-System dinners at night. You can stash fruit and cheese in the minibar, and have healthy snacks in your room (granola bars, nuts, etc.) You can handwash in the hotel sink and dry small items over the shower bar and/or towel bars.
      2. If it’s that long a trial, people do tend to go home on weekends when possible. The first one or two weekends, maybe not, but after that, everyone will need a break. Ask a more senior lawyer what (s)he thinks will happen.
      3. I always changed to comfy clothes when I went back to the hotel. You may have reporters in the courtroom and hallways, but it won’t be your job to talk to them, so just avoid them. (Your client’s PR department will likely want to handle any comments.) If they are around your hotel, they won’t be surprised to see lawyers dressed down after court.

      Take a few personal things with you (framed pics of your SO, maybe a small vase for flowers), to make the room a little more bearable. Daily maid service is something you’ll wish you had at home!

      • SF Bay Associate

        I can’t really ask the more senior (or any of the other) lawyers because the rest of the trial team is ALL men except for the senior-most partner, so they may not have the same advice as the experienced ladies here – they’ll have no idea about tampon runs, avoiding weight gain, or in-room lingerie washing. My office is virtually all men too. Mysteriously, there are very few women above the midyears… hmm…

        To address a couple questions so far, yes, I will thankfully have paralegal support. Biglaw can’t function without them. I will not have a car and there don’t seem to be any grocery stores in the walkable area (public transit is not good there), so I’ll need to cab it a few times to the grocery store.

        I’m not trying to run home every weekend, and am certainly fine without my SO on my 4 day business trips. We’ve just never been apart for more than two weeks, so a ten week trial would be a really long time to not go home. I’m glad to hear that people do go home a little during trial.

        I am deeply grateful for all this wonderful advice. Please keep it coming!

        • Amy

          I highly recommend Skype. I use it with my husband and son when I go on business trips and there is something special about being able to see the person you’re talking to. Most laptops have integrated webcams these days so it’s not hard to download and install Skype and test it out on your home and traveling computers before you leave.

          My husband and I were in a long-distance relationship before we moved in together and there were a couple of times we went a month or more without seeing each other. Phone calls help – this was pre-texting but a couple texts a day can help you stay connected. I also used to send him surprise gifts – like a movie – and then we would watch it “together” on the phone. I do recommend you try to get home as often as you can and can afford it, as there’s no real subsitute for being together.

          I would definitely talk about “ground rules” for what can and cannot go on while you guys are apart. My DH and I did this and I think it’s why our long-distance relationship made it, as opposed to others I know of. Things like – going out in a group where there will be single girls there is OK; having single girls come over when it’s just them and just you is not OK. Don’t make assumptions. You may think “well, obviously he wouldn’t do X” but he thinks doing X is fine. Only you know your relationship well enough to know what the rules should be, but do have them and do communicate with them. On the same token, while you are separated, make sure that you allow him to “vent” and talk about difficulties he’s having or how much he misses you. It may seem like a drag – you’re tired too, and missing him too, and may not want to talk about it – but relationships are about sharing not just the good stuff, but the bad stuff too.

          Don’t worry – if your relationship is strong it will survive the separation. It will be hard – mainly to keep the connection going while you are exhausted and homesick – but it’s worth it in the end. Good luck with your trial!

          • JessC

            Totally second the recommendation for Skype. My wonderful bf of 3 years and I were semi-long distance while I was in law school (not so much that the physical distance between us was really far, but that our respective schedules were so crazy that it was hard to schedule time to be together) and we found Skype to be a huge asset. As Amy mentioned, there really is something about getting to see the face of the person you miss while talking to them.
            If a trip or two for you to go home or for your SO to visit you can be arranged, definitely take advantage. Ten weeks can be a long time, but just one or two weekend visits in addition to regular communication can make a huge difference.
            And good luck!

        • Angeleno

          are you coming to LA? If yes, there is a huge Ralph’s on 9th and Hope. Your hotel should have, or can easily put in a mini-fridge.
          Take advantage of the subway!
          If you’re not coming to LA, never mind. ;)

        • BigLaw Refugee

          Lots of good advice here. I never actually had to do this, but I’ve done a fair amount of travel on the firm’s dime. My main piece of advice is don’t worry about looking different or fitting in. In the long run, you’ll be happier having done what makes you feel good. So if everyone else is ordering greasy hamburgers, just tell them you’ll do your own thing – now that Seamlessweb and similar services are available in most cities, there’s really no reason not to have what you like.

          I always try to research restaurants in the area so that I have a chance of enjoying the food I find time to eat.

          Re laundry services: keep in mind that many wash & fold services have an 8 or 10 lb minimum, so if the firm doesn’t cover it, you may be better off sticking with mostly dry-clean items and hand-washing a few tops and underthings.

          Your firm should cover the cost of a reasonable number of calls home (although preferably with a cell phone or calling card, not outrageous hotel rates).

        • Kaye

          Is there ZipCar in the area? If yes, you could use that to rent a car for a few hours to get groceries/just generally get around.

    • Shayna

      – Almost all hotels have laundry facilities somewhere in them – you can check online though before you go to make sure. If not, ask the concierge for the name of a laundry service that will pick up and drop off at the hotel
      – Go to a local supermarket for nonperishable healthy foods in small quantities – like granola bars, kashi cereal, bananas, etc.
      – Bring a flash drive with you just in case you have difficulty w/ your laptop and need to use a desktop there. It’s a lot easier than e-mailing files to yourself.
      – Don’t have your SO come to visit until you know what everyone else is doing (at least the 2nd weekend) – yes it sounds like junior high – but you don’t want to be the girl who can’t exist w/out her boyfriend – or the one who leaves him in the hotel room while she works for the weekend
      – Bring a change of comfortable clothes in your bag to the office so you can change into them if you need to, and then – again – wait and see.

      Good luck! And again – use the hotel concierge to get a handle on what’s in the area, what areas to stay away from, and any services you need (pharmacy, post office, laundry, etc.)

    • Chicago K

      I am a consultant, but have been lucky enough to not have to live out of a hotel on too many occasions.

      1) Take advantage of the company expense account to buy the healthiest food you can when eating out. Your company should also allow for groceries to be expensed as meals – hopefully the room has a fridge – get staples like whole wheat bread, natural peanut butter protien bars, canned soups, apples/oranges/yogurts, take out salads from the grocery store (or if you have whole foods near by, stock up from the salad/hot bar and prepared areas.) Invest in a hot pot like you probably had in college. You can heat up soup, rice and oatmeal in it, as well as boil water if you want some tea. They are about 5-10 dollars at CVS. If your room doesn’t have a fridge, leave this stuff at the office in the shared fridge. That way you can snack on yogurt and salad while they all order in greasy sandwiches when working late.

      Don’t use travel as an excuse to overindulge…we all know how easy it is, use it as an opportunity to get the healthiest possible foods on someone else’s dime.

      The hotel should offer laundry/dry cleaning service and may even have washers/dryers you can use yourself. You can still wash stuff by hand in the bathtub and hang from the shower curtain. Bring/buy some Wool-lite and coathangers (the types in hotel closets often are attached). If they don’t offer laundry service, I would ask if they can recommend a near by laundromatt or dry cleaners that offers “fold and fluff” service – which means you drop your clothes off and they wash it for you. Hopefully you can expense this – it can be pricey as it’s by the lb. But if most of your wardrobe needs to be drycleaned, it might not add up too much afterall.

      See if they will allow you to use a gym near by, or at the firm’s local office (if they have one). Gives you something to do on weekends, and lots of gyms actually offer short term corporate plans. Also, find your local movie theatre and take in some shows, you might want to get NetFlix to watch on your laptop in the hotel room. I know you won’t have much spare time, but maybe on weekends.

      2) Everywhere I have worked i have mainly been able to go home for weekends. I would think they would allow this for you, even if only occasionally, but I am not sure on the ramifications of being involved in the trial and if they would want you to be working most weekends. See if your S/O can come down to visit. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to at least ask if they would foot the bill, but if they won’t, at least the hotel is covered.

      I don’t know if the city is public tranportation friendly, but the biggest convience for me is having access to a car. I hate waiting around for everyone to agree it’s time to leave the office and truck back to the hotel, and then agree to meet for dinner an hour later, and then be at the driver’s mercy to get myself back home when I just want to go to bed and they want to hit a third bar….ugh. Definately make sure you can get car access, it will make you so much happier just to know you can go buy tampons without having to be accompanied by your coworker.

    • LL

      1) When you check in, tell the hotel you will be there for an extended stay and see what they can offer you. You should be able to set up a time preference for cleaning the room, special pillows, getting the windows unlocked, etc. Talk to the kitchen and see what healthy meals or substitutions they can offer, even that are not on the menu. A lot of hotels will put a mini-fridge (like college size) in the room, so you can stock up on yogurt, milk, cereal and fruit, though it sounds like you won’t be eating much in the hotel anyway.

      Bring Woolite though you probably will just end up having to trust the hotel laundry. I believe you could also use the hotel shampoo for handwashing if you do have the time. If you wear skirt suits to court, bring a LOT of pairs of pantyhouse.

      3) Remember that any time you are in the vicinity of the courthouse you might be seen by jurors or media, so try to look calm and professional.

      You should be able to change out of your suit jacket into a cardigan pretty soon after getting back to the office, though obviously feel out the situation first.

      In terms of office supplies, if the courthouse doesn’t have wireless internet, get one of those mobile broadband inserts for your laptop (though an iPad would probably work as well). You can always cancel the service after trial. If you have somewhere in the courthouse to store stuff, you might want to think about bringing a cheap, light printer for emergencies.

      Good luck!

    • MJ

      First, check with more senior people re past experiences with trials to answer most of these questions. Typically, for example, once court is over you can go casual. It may be that most of the time you’ll be in the back office and wearing jeans (or whatever you have to wear in your firm’s offices) – but even then, always keep a nice outfit handy so that you can be the one to go to court when there’s a chance. You’ll learn a ton just by watching, especially since you already know the case, so be sure to volunteer for anything that will get you near court – offer to take notes, ask to go watch an exam if you have helped draft it or helped prepare the witness.
      You may or may not be able to go home on weekends – a lot depends on what is going to happen the next week, what the senior people are doing, etc. You will find that your busiest time is after court, to get ready for the next day, and early in the morning; but the fact is you’ll probably be working around the clock.
      Most important is be sure to bring exercise clothes – you will absolutely need to work off some of the stress of trial. And bring whatever you need to help you sleep, whether it’s a book, your iPod, or sleeping pills.
      As for laundry, if this is a big case the client will almost certainly pay for hotel laundry expenses. But washing your own unmentionables and hanging them on the shower rod is often preferable to having them washed in hot water by the hotel.
      On food, there may well be a communal meal in the office every night (and morning, and at lunch). Pick the healthy choices, and if there aren’t any, talk to whomever is doing the food ordering to see about getting some. Remember that you don’t have to have dessert just because it’s there.

    • Been there, done that...

      I used to love the Embassy Suites (and hotels like that) for this reason. A kitchenette makes life so much easier. My advice from having spent a summer living in a hotel with no kitchen…

      1) Laundry should not be a problem. The big name hotels (all of which you mentioned) usually have a laundry service. Get a small Woolite detergent and handwash your unmentionables in the sink or tub.

      2) The first thing I would do is find a supermarket. (My husband and I do this when we’re on vacation too!) I get dry cereal (my snack of choice), granola bars, wheat thins, fruit, bottled water (so expensive in the hotel), and the like. I find if I have my own snacks I’m not tempted to eat the cookies/pastries that always seem to be around. Some hotels can put a small dorm style fridge or microwave in your room. Doesn’t hurt to ask. Make sure you have some utensils and paper plates.

      3) Try to stick to the same menu you have at home. For instance, if you usually do toast and coffee for breakfast in the morning, don’t have eggs and bacon every morning (no matter how tempting it is.) Portion control is also important and so hard when you are ordering out all the time.

      4) If you exercise at home, try to continue while in the hotel at their gym, or find a nearby yoga studio that you can do a drop-in class a couple times a week, whatever. I used to take a walk every day around the same time for about 45 minutes. It’s important to have some ‘alone’ time and exercising is a good way to do it.

      5) If your team was anything like my team, a lot of young associates who partied hard, be careful. Going to dinner at 11 and then to the clubs until 2 in the morning was common place. This is so not me, and I never participated. I would have been useless the next day.

      6) I went home most weekends after the second week.

      7) Bring an iPod, travel speakers, pictures of loved ones, etc. Make sure you have your favorite magazines too. There’s always something nice about curling up with my Instyle at the end of a tough day. I also like Sudoku so I always bring a puzzle book with me. Pay-per-view movies were a splurge too. I got to see some chick flicks that my hubby would never have watched.

      Good luck!

    • North Shore

      I lose weight on trial because there’s no time to eat, I’m totally stressed, and I never want to eat the food in the hotel. If the lobby has apples, I’m in business. I also buy granola bars and bananas at the local 7-11 type place. A life-saver can be getting access to the concierge lounge — hello, free breakfast! Beg for access when you check in if you’re not at that rewards level. Ship your clothes and shoes to the hotel if you can, and tell the hotel you’ll need extra hangers. If I can’t go home for weeks, I’ll wash my undies in the sink (bring those travel-sized woolite packs) and send the rest to the hotel cleaners. Your firm may reimburse you for this. Also ship yourself a box of office supplies. Do you have paralegals? I give mine a list and they ship everything I need (stapler, binder clips, paper, post-its, etc.). If your trials are like mine, you won’t have time to miss the S.O., and the trial will be very exciting and consume your every waking thought. I’ve never been on such a huge trial team, though, it’s usually just a few lawyers and a paralegal. I guess if you’re doing research it might not be as all-consuming as preparing your cross-examination at 3 in the morning . . . Good luck — it’s going to be a great learning experience, no matter how it turns out.

    • Mille

      I can help with the living in a hotel part– (I haven’t done this for business, but have a lot of travel experience) miminus.biz has all sorts of small packets of laundry soap like Woolite. I use that to wash my underthings in the sink. For such a long stay, though, I would suggest buying a full-size woolite, and full-size shampoo and other bath products once you get to your destination–don’t bother packing them, save your luggage for clothes and shoes. Laundry can be done by the hotel (expensive) or you can find the nearest laundromat and do it on weekends. Some upscale hotels have guest laundry rooms, but not all do. Also find a one-day dry cleaner nearby. Most likely you won’t be “on” 24-7– you should have some down time.

      I’ve been able to request a small refrigerator for the room in certain hotels. Most already have a coffee maker and microwave. It sounds like overkill, but if the hotel doesn’t complain, go to Target and get a little fridge for $100. I usually just get a cooler and keep it stocked with ice and waters.

      If you can get to a grocery store, things like instant oatmeal and ramen noodles can be made with a coffee cup and hot water from the coffee maker. There was a post recently about eating healthy at the office that can help with that, too.

      If you can’t get to a grocery store, get online before you travel and order some healthy non-perishable food to be delivered to the hotel. Once you are there, and you know if you have refrigeration or not, in most major cities you can order groceries online. Also, ordering take-out works once you find the healthy things on the menu.

      Keep in mind, your trial may settle fast, so don’t go overboard right away.

    • Louise

      Purchase an eye mask that blocks out light. Most pharmacies carry these. I have one that is filled with lavender, and it is very soothing. Helps me fall asleep.

      Bring a couple of big binder clips to hold the drapes closed, too. If your room faces east, the sun may come blasting through the cracks in the morning when you need a few extra minutes of sleep.

      Foam type earplugs can be a life-saver, too. If you have a very noisy room, like next to the elevator, ask to be moved. But if you just have noisy neighbors for a few nights, the earplugs will really help.

      Unpack immediately and settle in. Use all the drawers and closet space. Try to keep your room neat and tidy so it is a quiet, pleasant haven when you return from court. Don’t treat it like a hotel room, in other words; treat it like home. The maids will clean it, but you need to keep it organized.

      Consider purchasing fresh flowers, either on your taxicab grocery runs, or perhaps from a street vendor.

      Many hotels have CD players built into the alarm clocks. Ask in advance, and bring your own music. Of course, if you have an iPod, that works great, too. Consider bringing a docking station with speakers so you don’t have to wear earphones every.single.evening.

      The hotel staff will get to know you, and if you are pleasant, will bend over backwards to make you comfortable. Don’t be afraid to ask for things like wine glasses, dorm fridge, coffee maker, the type of pillow you like, etc. Budget for, and tip your maids regularly and they will leave you extra towels and generally be sweet.

      Oh, and don’t forget to sign up for the hotel’s Frequent Stay program up front. 10 weeks should net you a free week or two at a sister property in Hawaii or somewhere else really nice!

  11. Blonde Lawyer

    Advice for the girl who posts here w/ the “shoes I wear to court blog.” I may be confusing you with another poster and if that is the case, I apologize for the unsolicited advice. But, a lady in law school posted here about started her own fashion blog and wondered if it could effect her ability to get hired. Most here encouraged her to do it as a hobby. Recently, I saw you post w/ a link to your blog. I clicked through and it seems this is a new blog so I think you may be the same girl. Great idea for a blog!

    That said, I’m concerned for you that you are straying from “check out these great shoes to wear to court” and venturing into “look at these pictures of the awful shoes I had to sit next to in court today.” You have a public blog with your name and picture on it. People that know you may read it. If they were the ones sitting next to you and the ones you are now making fun of on your blog, they are not going to think very highly of you. I think anonymous shots of some bad shoes are fine. Just don’t post, “these are the shoes I saw at x county family court, today, in a meeting regarding a mediation.” Way to personal, way to public, and to some, offensive.

    This will not reflect well on you when you look for a job. Keep it more generic, take down the personal posts, and just talk about shoes!! Otherwise, I love your blog.

    • Anonymous

      Wow, I am normally not judgy about bloggers and facebookers and whatnot, but this post can only hurt her. I wouldn’t hire someone who, as an intern, is so judgy about what real lawyers are wearing to a meeting.

    • nonA

      Wow. Ummm … NOT a good idea to do this as a public blog with your name on it. Kudos for not hiding behind an anonymous moniker, I guess, but not if you are going to make fun of people.

      One of the first things that a law firm that gets your resume will do is google you, and this will come up … my thought would be “she is someone who will post private information about our firm on the interwebs, probably while making fun of her coworkers.” And that is not a character trait anyone is looking for in the lawyers they hire. Also, I would be afraid clients would discover it and feel uncomfortable.

      • j

        Wow. This is unbelievable. It shows incredibly bad judgment, like BL says. But even beyone that, this type of petty obnoxious, well, nastiness, is incredibly unbecoming. I would not want to work with this person. First, I could not let her anywhere near my clients. Second, while she is supposed to be paying attention to the legal disussion, she is taking pictures of people’s feet and thinking about their shoes. Third, she wholly lacks any idea that what she is doing is inappropriate!! I am involved in hiring at my firm, and I google!

        • fresh jd

          I just looked through more of the blog. I am so truly disturbed and horrified. I don’t know what people are thinking. Sometimes I feel like there’s something wrong with me…like I’m the crazy one! I would think this blog is a parody/fictional persona, if it weren’t for the classmate confirming this is an actual person’s real name indeed. Wait til Kat’s buddies at Above the Law read this!

          • Suze

            Well, ATL will be merciless, indeed…perhaps that is what’s called for here. Just think – ATL can perform a valuable service to our ‘profession’ (for a change…). Minor degree of snarkiness intended ;).

      • Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

        And even if you take the post down, you may not be safe. I recently learned about a site that (I was told) employers sometimes use in addition to Google. http://www.pippl.com It searches the “deep web” and finds anything and everything that has or had your name on it. Case in point, I searched using someone’s name (not mine) and found her Amazon wish list. Nothing truly interesting on there, but the fact that I found it is sort of crazy.

        Also, http://www.archive.org will retrieve web pages from prior dates, so even if you change the post now, someone may be able to find out how it looked on a date when you had the post up.

          • SF Bay Associate

            Fascinating. And suddenly awesome that my name is somewhat common – I scrolled through the hundred-plus entries and the only things that were actually about me were an address from one year of college and my Linked In. Apparently I share my name with other attorneys, scientists, stay at home moms, doctors, and arts-and-crafts skilled women across three generations. Yay anonymity!

          • Anonymous Today

            Interesting. Thanks for posting about this site! Most of the results that come up with my name (both on pipl and Google) pertain to a woman with my name who won the lottery, but a few interesting things did come up!

        • v

          Wow, that site is amazing/creepy. It turned up messages I had sent to a closed Google Groups e-mail list (that colleagues of mine used to arrange happy hours at one point). Nothing damaging, but a good reminder of how public internet stuff is.

    • Anon

      Agree 100%. How obnoxious in way that says ” look at me, I am so fabulous, I am Miss Whatever, and look at the people I have to work with.”
      Quelle Horreur as someone upthread said!

      Beyond posting your colleagues pics wihtout their permission on a non-anon blog, the tone of the posts is very superior.

      Are you in highschool?

    • Has to be said...

      Truly bad judgment. The post basically says the the blogger is vain, immature, and self-absorbed. Her ‘I’m better than you’ attitude just shines through. It’s like ‘OMG…Can you believe what these people wore to court today? He wore black shoes with a navy suit. The horror!’ My first thought was “who the heck does she think she is?” Unless your the famous guy who makes up the best and worst dressed lists for all of the awards shows (name escapes me) or Tim Gunn, she should stick to talking about generic shoes that are appropriate for court and leave out the personal commentary about her fellow court attendees.

      • Terrified

        Oh god I go to school with her..kind of terrified ill end up on there in one of my sweatpants days!

        • Miriam

          If anyone is judging the way we look in law school, they are obviously paying more attention to our outfits than in class. Maybe it would be a good idea to wear terrible outfits just to distract her!! Haha I seriously look terrible in class on some days and think “Who cares! If we don’t look terrible then we obviously have too much time on our hands.”

          • SF Bay Associate

            I love this idea. If you have the self-confidence to rock it, it would be hilarious!

    • fresh jd

      I’m not sure if there were others, but I had posted a question about starting a style blog and possible work repercussions. And that blog you linked is most certainly NOT me! I agree, I would be horrified to give so much info. about myself, esp when writing negatively about others.

      But since we’re on the topic, this is my issue. I really wanted to start a personal style blog for conservative or business casual fashion (a what i wore to work type of thing, but for non-creative fields since they are what dominate that blogosphere). I know the suggestion is to cut the head off, but I think those blogs are ugly and tacky (sorry to anyone who does that!). I rather have none at all.

      So, what if I were to have full photos but no name on it (or an alias instead)? It’s just a thought (I doubt I will ever go through with it), but I wonder what other ladies think of this. Damn this risk-averse profession!

      • Suze

        Eeeep. Weelllll, for starters, fresh jd, I (and I bet all our fellow corporettes) KNEW this wasn’t you, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too smart and cool to do something this, well, just dumb.

        I remember when you floated the idea of starting a blog. Which would basically be verboten if you went with a law firm (Kat is probly the only one who gets/got to pull this off). It is a damnably risk-averse profession.

        Since you aren’t starting out with a *firm*, you might get some leeway, but I personally would think long and hard about the ‘anonymous’ blog that involves full photos/no name/alias…afraid you’d be unwillingly/unwittingly outed. I am too *old* to know the answer re blog/blogosphere (I have a hard time understanding how people have time to blog/post/live AND work during the day…esp w/firewalls like the ones I deal with at work) . All that said, since you are going into consulting, maybe the eer would ‘like’ to have you ‘out there’ – perhaps give it some time and see if they would be open to it…

        In the meantime, please keep showing up here – I like your insight and commentary, and am ‘interested’ in how you roll with the new job – think you are fierce :)!

      • MPC

        The ladies at Academichic post full pictures with aliases (in their case first initials): http://www.academichic.com/. They are all academics, though, so the rules may be different.

        My instinct would be, if you never introduce your real name/other personal details, set up an email address specifically for the blog, and don’t share with your coworkers, who’s to know?

        You could of course blur out your face, but that would be creepy.

        • Suze

          Wow, great site…but I’d worry about anonymity to the extent that is a concern. And, yeah, blurring out the face is creepy, perhaps not even effective…

          • fresh jd

            Thanks, but I can’t help but think that the rules are different for those in academia. If students or fellow faculty in the teacher’s lounge were to see it, I doubt anyone would think anything but “Cool” or “Hey, that’s my math teacher!” How hilarious (read: horrific) would it be if someone came upon my would-be blog and said “Hey, that’s my consultant!” (and we’re not exactly talking about feng shui or interior design consultant!)

        • G

          I’d also advise taking photos on a very neutral, preferably indoor background if you don’t want to be accidentally recognized. I clicked through to the academichicks blog based off a post here a few weeks ago, and I love it. But then I noticed a photo of one of the academichicks, standing in front of a distinctive building about six blocks from my house, one that’s instantly recognizable to a good number of students in my city. Point being, it’s not just not posting your name, it’s all the little details that could be put together by the wrong person. It’s silly to be overly-paranoid, but just be really aware of what information you’re putting out there, and how it could be connected to other bits of information to identify you.

      • JessC

        Honestly, I think the best bet would be to do the no-head pictures. Having your face does (however remotely) create the risk that someone might see the blog, recognize your face, and “out” you. A few other options: Take pictures of the outfit laid out on the floor (or some flat surface). But the downside is that readers won’t see how the outfit actually LOOKS on a person, which could significantly take away from the outfit’s awesomeness. The second option requires a bit of an investment – buy a dressmaker’s dummy and display the outfits on the form. It’s a good compromise, though somewhat pricey and a bit of a hassle.

        • - j -

          I’m with JessC. I am a new lawyer and do exactly that to at least have some degree of separation between my identity and my blog!

      • Darlene

        One thought to consider is that by cutting off the head, the reader can focus on the outfit. The reader isn’t distracted by whether the wearer is having a bad hair day, her smile looks fake, or her skin is oily. Of course, having the head in the picture is better for giving overall proportion . . . but maybe you could do that later down the road after you are secure in your new position.

        Being able to post your picture is great for building trust, but even Kat was hidden for ages. I started a blog in 2008, a couple of months before I left my law firm, but only in May of 2010 did I post my own face without sunglasses. Until then, I wasn’t sure if I was going to look for another legal job. Since my blog focuses on the joys and challenges of being large busted, I was wary about future employers associating me with my blog (even though I didn’t use my complete name on it). This is also why I’m careful when I post pictures of friends on my blog.

        However, your topic is more conservative, so it seems like it would be less of an issue.

        Another idea I just had–why don’t you develop a disguise, a la the movie stars who don’t want anyone to recognize them when they walk down the street? Giant sunglasses, a hat or scarf or wig? You could use it for your identity/brand . . . be a classy “woman of mystery”.

  13. Anonymous

    Did anyone read the Jezebel post that Kat linked through on her Facebook link thingy, on the Citibank HR tips for women? It seems like someone at Citibank HR has read Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office. It’s a shame that the Jezebel bloggers didn’t take it seriously, because Lois Frankel is definitely a feminist and the teenagers and students who read Jezebel would do well to learn her advice before they start their careers. Women are never going to get ahead in the workplace if we refuse to listen to well-intentioned and wise advice.

    • i'm nobody

      what makes you think they didn’t take it seriously? I thought they took it very seriously.

    • SF Bay Associate

      Agreed. I saw that and the first thing I thought was NGDGTCO too, and how smart her advice was, and how unfortunate the comments were. I imagine that corporate (corporette) women recognize the value of the advice. We should all own a copy of NGDGTCO by now.

      I recently bought a copy for a good friend who is a scientist moving her way slowly into management after years in labs. She just got screwed out of a major speaking role at a national conference in favor of a male coworker. Despite her fantastic competence, she is still acting in “girlish” ways far too close to her parents’ emphasis on traditional female roles and mannerisms, enabling her jerk male coworker to manipulate the situation and swoop in and steal her hard-earned prize, while she waited (vainly) for her manager to “do the right thing,” recognize the situation, and fix it – which of course we all know almost never happens. NGDGTCO – own it. learn it. live it.

    • v

      I liked Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office and thought it had a lot of valuable advise. However, I think here’s a difference between seeking it out or giving it to a friend or someone you’re mentoring and having it handed to you by your employer. The first is something women choose to do to adapt in a business environment that is dominated by men. The second is the employer choosing to normatize that male-dominated business environment, which is problematic.

      • v

        And another problem with the list is that it is stated in an absolutist way such that it appears the employer is generalizing about all its female employees’ behavior and critiquing it, whereas men are assumed to behave universally appropriately. That’s unacceptable.

        • cbackson

          My take was that it was singularly unwise for a financial institution to be handing out a list advising women that the way to get ahead is to stretch the rules.

      • Anon

        Very much agreed. I own NGDGTCO. I’m glad I read it and I’m sure I’ll read it again, but this use of it is out-of-line. Really, sometimes NGDGTCO (gosh, that title is a mouthful) irritates me anyway. Happily, I work for a non-profit in a heavily female-dominated environment.

      • Shayna

        Excellent point – and I agree. Nice Girls is a way to work around a problematic environment – so I would be disturbed by an employer encouraging that work around instead of fixing the environment.

    • z

      Anyone have any other “women in business” type books to recommend other than NGDGTCO?

      • Esquirette

        I found “The Male Factor: The Unwritten Rules, Misperceptions, and Secret Beliefs of Men in the Workplace” by Shaunti Feldhahn to be very good (and even more of a mouthfull to write out than NGDGTCO!). Kat linked to an article about it once but not many people seemed to notice it. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, the focus of the article was about the one chapter in the book on appearance/sexiness in the workplace. In some ways the book is similar to NGDGTCO but I think it provides more context and more food for thought. I actually read NGDGTCO just this weekend and, honestly, it didn’t do much for me. Maybe it’s my generation (GenX) combined with my personal experiences and personality, but I found that it had little to teach me. The Male Factor, though, that was an eye-opener.

    • Anonymous

      Wow. I work for C (not in HR) and received one of these cards in a women’s development program (along with many other things). The cards aren’t just dropped in everyone’s mailbox.

  14. Up North

    Hi Corporettes!

    I have seen posts similar to this one- but I would be interested to hear your feedback based on these details:

    I am not in the legal or business field, but rather an almost-doctorate who is job hunting in non-academia. I have applied for a position with a company that is based several states away. They have invited me to have coffee with one of the company’s reps locally. The rep implored that I come casual. In fact, they specifically stated they would be wearing jeans and invited me to do the same.

    I know this is similar to a post from a few weeks ago– but varied in that I have been told specifically to dress casually. I don’t want to seem daft or oblivious. Was thinking dark, trouser jeans (or maybe gray trousers) and a blazer+blouse?

    Thanks for your feedback

    • lawDJ

      dark trousers and non-suit blazer sounds great. I would say, make sure the blouse isn’t too dressy as well as minimal accessories and possibly flats. Basically “cute weekend daytime wear.”

    • Eponine

      Wear jeans if they asked you to wear jeans, assuming jeans are your style. If you don’t like jeans, wear a denim skirt or casual trousers. If you don’t wear jeans, instead of a blazer, I’d go with a cardigan to make the outfit more casual. Jeans with a blazer would also be fine.

    • MelD

      I think if they suggested you wear jeans, you should wear jeans and choose a nice, but not-too-dressy top. I wouldn’t go for the blazer unless it’s weather appropriate. It was in the mid 90s today where I am now, and I think it would look ridiculous to wear a blazer for a casual day at a coffee house, but if you’re somewhere cooler, go for it!

  15. G

    Quick etiquette question:
    I just interviewed for a clerkship with a federal judge, and am wondering what kind of thank-you note to send. I want to mail one, and I know it’s not time-sensitive. But my handwriting is really bad. My impulse is to send a typewritten, signed note on resume paper, in a nice but plain envelope. The judge is kind of macho, so I really don’t want to be cute. But is that formal enough? Is there a better alternative? I’d really appreciate any suggestions or advice.
    Thanks so much in advance!!

    • A-non-lawyer

      I always do handwritten. I write it on scratch paper (or type it) first, then copy the words sloooooowly onto the thank you card. If you slow down, your handwriting is probably at least legible, which is the most important thing.

    • anano

      I think typed is fine. And maybe it’s just me, but I can’t imagine that many guys are out there handwriting thank you notes for job interviews. It seems like a fairly feminine thing to do, and I’m not sure that that is in your best interest here, especially if the judge is “macho.” (See the conversation above re: Nice Girls Don’t get the Corner Office.)

      To frame it another way, assuming no grammatical or spelling errors, I don’t think there’s any way that sending a typed note is going to hurt you. I can’t imagine the judge sitting there thinking, “Gee, it’s great that she sent a thank you note, but I’m so disappointed that it’s not handwritten!” On the other hand, the handwritten note *could* hurt you. So I would go the safe route and do a typed note.

      • CFM

        I do typed notes for an interview, handwritten for the end of an internship to a mentor

      • Lyssa

        I agree. I’d add that I got several thank you notes from interviews I took part in last winter, and I was actually really surprised that so many of them were hand-written. It just seemed so casual and family-style (in other words, not professional). I didn’t really make a note even of who sent them, so nothing harmed anyone’s chances, but I did think they looked a little odd. Maybe others disagree, but I preferred the typed.

    • S

      FWIW, when I send typewritten thank-you notes, I use monarch stationary (7.25 x 10.5″).

    • Eponine

      I think typed thank-you letters are kind of weird. I wouldn’t ding someone but it’d seem odd to me. Handwrite, in print if you need to for neatness, and sign your name.

    • Emily

      If it’s a federal judge, I’d send an e-mail thank you if you can – snail mail can take 2-3 weeks to get through the anthrax screening (at least at my court in DC), and the FedEx’d thank you notes were a little scary in the “overly intense, high maintenance gunner” way. If you send it snail mail, just don’t expect it to get there fast!

    • fresh jd

      Why not just have a friend with nice handwriting write it out for you? You sign it. Done.

      • Suze

        Yup, I’d go with *something* handwritten (my own handwriting is awful but I can MAKE it work if I try really hard) – assuming the judge is over 40 (s/he is), they like a nice old school handwritten thing on nice feeling paper…IMHO.

        • North Shore

          I’ve over 40, but I don’t like getting handwritten notes. As noted above, it’s only the women who send them and often there’s loopy handwriting. All of a sudden you look like a teenage girl instead of a new professional. Typing looks professional. You aren’t thanking someone for a present in a personal setting — this is business. I’d say type it or e-mail it. And FWIW, I’ve been on the hiring side for ages, including helping my federal judge make hiring decisions way-back-when.

          • fresh jd

            In my university, we had an active alum give advice to students studying business. He is the Managing Principal of a huge investment firm and was the one who urged all of us to send a handwritten note. I also know male classmates at my law school who sent thank-you notes.

            At this point though I think the issue is timeliness. Handwritten notes are supposed to be received as close to the date of interview as possible. If you didn’t send it out same day or next morning, I think you need to consider other options at this point (i.e. email).

          • NY

            Our law school advises typed notes after an interview, absolutely no handwritten notes.

    • G

      I really appreciate all the great responses!! I’m a huge card-sender (bad handwriting and all..) in my personal life, so your feedback makes me feel less weird about sending something different from what I would normally. Good points about security issues and snail mail, too. I will definitely send a quick, short thank-you email to cover all my bases. As usual, you’re all so helpful and awesome! Thanks again.

  16. Louise

    I just saw a small cross body bag that I liked at TJ Maxx. It’s made by B. Makowsky, a brand I am not familiar with. Anyone have any experience with them? The leather seems pretty high quality and I love the dusty blue/teal color.

    The TJ Maxx price seems like a bargain at $60. I found the same style and color on eBay here starting at $84:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/B-Makowsky-Teal-Leather-Chicago-Cross-Body-Bag-NWT-/220666139883?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item3360ba14eb
    Amazon also has it in pink for $118.

    I certainly don’t need another handbag, but I know things disappear at these discount stores. Should I go snap it up?

    • Anonymous

      It’s a good brand! Should last a long time. I can’t advise you on whether to snap it up if you don’t need a bag, but you won’t regret it based on brand quality.

    • Shayna

      They’re a good brand – and TJ Maxx has a return policy of 30 days (I think – check when you go) so I would buy it and consider it for a day or two before removing the tags.

      • Louise

        I think I’ll go back today and buy it and try it. With small bags, it can be tricky to tell if all my stuff will fit inside. Kind of tacky to unpack my purse at the store and test fit it!

        Thanks for the feedback!

        • Shayna

          I have the same issue – I’m constantly amazed at the sheer volume of stuff that I feel the need to schlep all over with me… but anytime I try to eliminate something from the purse I come to regret it!

  17. JN

    Question–
    Do we like this bag??
    http://www.jcrew.com/womens_category/bags/leatherbags/PRDOVR~29063/29063.jsp

    I bought the espresso color, which in the store the salesman convinced me looks black with black and brown with brown, but now that I brought it home, I’m not so sure. I’m also not convinced that it’s my style.

    My current bag was featured here as a Coffee Break. https://corporette.com/2010/02/11/coffee-break-links-and-locks-hobo/

    I have it in black and I love the gold chain (and most other grandma styles, for what that’s worth). One of the clasps broke, though.

    I would be so grateful for your comments, as I am feeling uncharacteristically undecided.

    • KelliJ

      Based on the color of espresso on the website, I don’t see how it can look black with anything. It only looks brown. The Carob color might be a better option. Like the bag!

      • Louise

        I agree that the espresso is definitely brown, and such a warm brown that I think it would look a little odd with black.

        You sound pretty hesitant. Perhaps that’s your sign to just keep looking?

    • fresh jd

      I like the bag, but truth be told, for $300 there is a whole universe of bags out there that I would buy over a J.Crew one.

    • Shayna

      I’m hesitant to buy anything that can be both black and brown for fear that it would in fact appear to be neither – If you wear both a bag that’s a complementary color like cognac may be better.

      I have a Love-It-Or-Leave-It policy when I’m shopping for clothing/accessories – and it sounds like you don’t Love it so I would leave it

    • D

      It sounds like you are undecided so my vote is for return – personally though, I looooove that bag

  18. houda

    Hi corporettes
    I have a question for all ladies (and gentlemen) about travel luggage.
    I go on several 3-day business trips per year.
    I dress smart business casual (jacket not mandatory)?
    I am considering a new carry on , thanks to advice from here and road warriorette I have cut down my packing list. I am thinking of a leather carry on like Veau Foulonné from Longchamps, or Utah from Louis Vuitton (that’s what I can get in France).
    Now my issue is that i know these are “men’s” carry ons.
    Do you think it is OK for a woman to have a men’s carry on?

  19. ST

    @ Louise – I have 2 B Makowsky bags that I picked up at Marshalls. They have held up really well thus far, and I am very hard on bags. My hobo bag us pebble leather and my tote bag is glove leather. Both are beautiful, and the glove leather feels like butter. The designer, Bruce Makowsky, is married to Kathy Van Zeeland (in case you are familiar with that line). His bags seem to be of much higher quality than the Kathy bags, but hers designs are so “fun.” The only place that I have found a good selection of B Makowsky is on QVC and they have plenty of user reviews available online. My only issue with B Makowsky is that, like other leather bags, the bigger ones are quite heavy.

    I have managed to turn a few coworkers onto B Makowsky. Most of them get theirs at Marshalls or TJ Maxx and I am not aware of any complaints. I get compliments on both bags and am quite happy with both purchases (both were around $150.)

  20. bankerette

    PSA – thought I’d let everyone know that Ann Taylor is having a sale – 40% off three or more full price items. I picked up a silk, scoopneck, three-quarter sleeve sweater (so perfect for under suits!) in every color they had! I had been stalking them forever (or 2 weeks, at least)!

    • Darlene

      Thanks, Bankerette!! I picked up some 4 scoopneck sweaters and tees. What would have been $195 ended up being $125.

  21. Liz

    I kind of think that jeggings are not really gonna look good on any normal woman. Just freakishly thin and tall models.

    • Anon

      I know you didn’t mean anything by that, but I just want to point out that those of us who are naturally tall and thin don’t really like being called “freakish,” or, for that matter, “anorexic” etc. If you wouldn’t say something of the same tone about a fat person, don’t say it about a thin person.

  22. Anonymous

    Does anyone have any tips for washing hosiery? I have wolford pantyhose that have gotten black marks on the foot part from the soles of my new heels. I’ve tried hand-washing with a tiny amount of detergent, but it does not come out. It wouldn’t be that noticeable except that since I’ve worn them a few times, the marks are not in the exact same place each time, so it now shows on the sides of my foot with my heels on. I hate for them to be unusable anymore since they’re so expensive, and I don’t want to buy another pair just to have it happen again. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!

    • Anon3L

      I have these Tide laundry bags that are meant for delicates. They zip up and go in the wash with my regular clothes (confession: I was one load a week. Everything goes in the same one, lol. Except drycleaning, of course.) As for the black marks, I can’t get them out either. I just wear that one pair of hose with those shoes every time (which means just wearing those shoes once every week or two.)

  23. Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

    If an event is business formal, is a LBD on its own enough?

    • Shayna

      What are the sleeves? I would make sure you have shoulder coverage – at least short sleeves to avoid a cocktail party look. A black jacket should do it.

    • JessC

      Hmmm. When I hear “business formal” and I think “suit”. Can you put a blazer with the dress?

    • anon - chi

      I think you will feel out of place, as most people will probably wear a suit to a business formal event.

    • NY

      I don’t think you want a “little” anything to a business formal even. At the least I would go a sheath dress with a jacket, but personally I would go suit

      • S in Chicago

        I agree that a suit or business dress/jacket is probably a better option for a bsuiness formal event.

        That dress is REALLY cute though. I hope you get to wear it somewhere soon. Love it!!

  24. Parisienne

    I would never spend this kind of money on leggings/jeggings because the style changes every year – this is a good thing to buy cheaply and enjoy for one season, then give away of discard.

  25. Assistant A.

    Hi, everyone. I’m an avid reader but a brand new poster. I guess I’ve felt like maybe I don’t qualify for the (awesome!) Corporette community, given that I’m a legal secretary rather than a fantastically well-educated and high-achieving JD/MBA/PhD/etc. However, I am in need of advice, and I think you all are the best ones to turn to under the circumstances.

    I’ve been living in Honolulu for the past 13 months, but for various reasons, I’ve decided to move back to the Mainland, and my flight to Chicago is at the end of this month. I’ve loved my job here (secretarial + paralegal work for a really great family law attorney), and I hope to find a similar position for myself when I get set up in Chicago. Thing is, while I’m not so nervous about finding myself a new job, I am increasingly nervous about the differences between working in an office in Hawaii vs. working in an office in Chicago. Specifically, about how I’ll be expected to dress.

    Honolulu is pretty laid back, not to mention always warm, and for the most part I wear nice, crisp jeans + a semi-casual top (ex: I have two sleeveless cowl neck tops that I love) and either flats or heels, depending on the shirt. If a new or important client is coming in, I’ll wear a dress, skirt + skirt, or at least non-denim pants. So day-to-day, it’s all very neat and presentable, but all the same, casual.

    Of course, I know things will be different in Chicago. Thus, my question (finally): what are your thoughts on how secretaries should dress in general, and for Chicago readers, there in particular? I know it will be a lot more formal, but how much so? How much is too much? And I’m really curious as to what your expectations are for your own assistants, regardless of whether or not they’re usually met.

    Thank you so much in advance. I really love this blog and its community, and frequently wish that I could find something similar for secretaries/assistants. You all can be a bit intimidating sometimes… :)

    • Anon

      In my Biglaw, secretaries and paralegals ran the gamut when it came to dressing up. But theyusually never wore suits. It might be different for smaller law firms though.

      You won’t go wrong with a suit on hand and a nice blazer or structured jacket just in case. Otherwise I usually see them in twinsets.

      • Anon

        P.S: Forgot to add. Never jeans, except if the firm has jeans friday. Nice pair of trousers and top always works.

        Also, fail to understand why anyone would move from honolulu to cold chicago. brrrr :)

    • North Shore

      I’ve been to federal court in Honolulu and Chicago. Hawaii is so casual, but I found people dressed nicely and professionally in the federal building. I think for Chicago it really depends where you end up working. The support staff at big law firms have a higher dress code than the support staff at a government law office or small firm office. Outside of super-formal BigLaw, nice pants/skirt and a blouse with cardigan would work for most of the year. No rubbah slippahs in Chicago law offices, but I’m sure you knew that.

    • anon - chi

      My office really varies – there are secretaries who wear sheath dresses with a cardigan or blazer and pumps every day, some who wear dressy trousers and sweaters, and some who wear seriously questionable capris and T-shirts. I have never seen a secretary in a suit, and I think they can get away with being more casual than the attorneys. I would stay away from anything that an attorney absolutely could not wear – typically that includes anything denim, sports sandals, flip flops, capris or shorts, sneakers, and casual T-shirts (anything with writing).

      In the winter, do whatever you need to do in order to stay warm. You will see lots of big down parkas and snow boots worn into the office, so I wouldn’t worry about your winter stuff not looking professional enough. Just change when you get in.

    • MOR

      I think it will very much depend on where you are working. If you’re in a large firm, things will probably be more formal. If you’re working for a solo practitioner, you may have a boss who wears jeans whenever s/he isn’t in court, or you may have a boss who wears a suit everyday. For interviewing, you’ll want to dress more formally, of course – maybe sheath dress and cardigan or nice pants, blouse, cardigan, etc. I’ve never had a secretary show up for an interview in a suit or blazer, but I’m also in a more rural, casual area. After that, I’d say that secretaries usually dress one “notch” below the attorneys in the office.

    • Anon

      I agree that the legal assistants really run the gamut in how they dress — mostly based on age (and a little on ethnicity), I’ve found. At my office, jeans are inappropriate, but it’s clear in our dress code. Personally, I think the dress code is more applicable to the assistants and staff than the attorneys (who end up slightly more formal no matter what). And it spells everything out very clearly. Good luck with the move!

    • Chicago K

      Not sure how helpful this will be, as I am not in law, but banking. But I just wanted to chime in that the type of dress will probably vary not only the firm but what part of the city you are working in and if you end up working in the suburbs it will be almost guaranteed to be more casual. Downtown / loop area is generally going to be the most formal. The assistants at my company (in the loop) wear suits every day because they interact with clients a lot.

      Good luck on the move and job hunt! You can probably feel it out a bit if you are interviewing in person for positions – definitely wear a suit to the interview though.

  26. Anon3L

    I buy into the idea that not everyone should wear jeggings, but what size is too fat to wear them? (No sarcasm, I genuinely don’t know. And I don’t want to offend anyone, so please don’t take it personally if your size is thrown out there.) Size 8? 10? 12? bigger? I’m a size 8 and really not sure if I should try them.

    Side note, my mom, who is now 60, has been wearing jeggings for at least 20 years. My dad HATES them. I find it hilarious that she is now in style. She also wore the same $0.50 pair of over-sized sun glasses for 25 years before they came back in style.

    • A-non-lawyer

      I think you should totally try them. In my mind there’s no magical size that someone should be before wearing a certain item of clothing. You just have to try it on and see if it looks good or not. If not, no one has to know except you :)

      I always stayed away from skinny jeans bc I have saddlebags, but I finally tried some on and found that they look pretty good with a longer top. Now I wear them all the time and find them so comfortable that I don’t really care if someone else thinks they look “bad” on me.

    • J

      I don’t think you can label it down to a size– some people are a size 8 or 10 or whatever and are very fit and look amazing in tight pants! Just use your judgment…and your mirror!

    • Suze

      @ Anon3L, I am 5’9″, size 8/10 and view myself as sort of ‘peasant hipped’/ prone to thunder thighs (and I am old enough to have already seen this trend in its prior iteration – I was in law school when Flashdance came out).

      The AT Loft jeggings in 8 fit perfectly and they ‘smooth’ over a world of little lumps and bumps, and create a sleek silhouette, I swear – and I cannot wear standard skinny jeans. Even my super fashion critical 11 year old approved, and she almost NEVER thinks I look good except in ‘modest’ black dresses. Give ’em a try, even though the ‘jeggings haters’ Greek chorus is saying not to – I think they might be missing something :).

    • EN

      I agree that there’s no size after which you can definitively say that a person would not look good in jeggings or skinny jeans. I am a tall and athletic size 10 with a very hourglass figure and a very JLo booty and I recently bought a pair of the GAP black jeggings (I’ve been a skinny jeans wearer for years now) and love them. My fiance, who is picky and will tell me if he doesn’t think something looks good, really likes them too. I have been told that I look great in skinnies by a number of my friends who wear smaller sizes than me but do not look as good in them because of their body shapes. I just think you have to try them on and be honest with yourself about whether it’s your best look or not.

      I totally recommend the GAP ones btw, they are 60 bucks I believe (I got them during their 30% promo though, yay!), very comfortable, and great under boots!

    • Rachel

      I never thought of it as a size thing so much as a body-shape thing. I’m tiny waist, big hips, then super-narrow from mid-thigh to ankles … I look, at best, like I’m going for a Betty Boop situation, and at worst, like I was eaten by a pair of tapered-ankle jeans from 1984. So I don’t wear them. My best friend, who is a size or two larger than me, is athletically, boyishly built, and looks a-may-zing is jeggings with an oversized button-down on top.

      I’d try them on and see if you liked them! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

  27. Parisienne

    The thing to remember about Chicago is you have some very cold and snowy winter weather. Then you have some extremely hot summer weather. Chicago people are very sensible and they seem to dress for comfort more than for style. They are not fashion-forward. But jeans for work at any job in the Loop would not look right in any season. I would see you in narrow-leg pants and a really warm winter coat that comes down over your knees. Low boots that work well with you pants legs are a must, preferably of the more water-resistant sort with a tough sole. City of Broad Shoulders!

    • anon - chi

      “They are not fashion-forward.”

      Argh. This is really not true unless we’re in the middle of a blizzard. It’s a big metropolitan area and you will find all types here, just as you would in any other huge city.

      • Another Sarah

        ^^ Exactly. During the winter, we may all LOOK like we’re homeless, but when we take off our coats and face masks, we are as fashion-forward as anyone.

        • divaliscious11

          And I see lots of fashionable coats and scarves and boots in winter as well……

      • divaliscious11

        THIS!

        My initial thought was “speak for yourself!” there are lots of different parts of Chicago, and lots of very fashionable women here…..

      • anon

        Oh, I don’t know. I’ve lived in Chicago, and I’ve lived in NYC and London. I’d definitely say that Chicagoans are, as a whole, less fashion-forward than people in those cities. It’s not to say that NO ONE is (or that you personally aren’t), but you see fewer people following the more extreme trends. I like Chicago a great deal more than NYC and London, FWIW, fashion-wise and otherwise.

        • Celia

          I have a question for you Chicago-ans, then! I am going to a wedding in late March in Chicago. Is it likely to still be really cold? Any ideas what kind of clothes would be appropriate?

          • Chi-town Lawyer

            Chicago is fashion-forward under our hats and boots and frankly, I hate NY in the winter bc I feel compelled to wear high heels in the freezing cold and slush. Much better to have warm toes when I slip into my nice shoes indoors.

            As for the wedding, March is not so nice in Chi-town, so the wedding will be indoors. You could get away with Winter or Spring-style formal wear, just bring along a wrap or seater of some sort in case it’s drafty. And be prepared to wear closed-toe shoes if you will need to walk outside anywhere in case it is slushy or gross.

          • divaliscious11

            Yes, to cold, but up in the air as to very…. meaning – Yes, March is still winter, but it could be 40 degrees cold, or it could be 20 degrees cold…. You won’t know until the week before!

            Appropriateness will depend on type of wedding and location….

  28. rm

    how does this not remind (in a bad way) any of you 80’s/early 90’s kids of the tights and long sweater look? are we going to start spraying our bangs and bringing back scrunch socks with keds too?

    • Sheila

      That’s certainly what I think of. I have a pair of skinny jeans, but I won’t do jeggings, or leggings at all for that matter. I wore jeggings in my 1991 high school photo, complete with a tensor bandage to hold in my gut, because I was wearing one of those cropped mock turtlenecks. Ew. And my bangs could have probably picked up a few local TV stations at the time.

    • Chicago K

      Ugh, I hope not. My bangs would never, ever stay like that no matter how much hair spray I used. I am selfishly glad that straight hair is in now, because that’s what my hair does naturally.

      As far as the jeggings though…maybe I am confused, I did own a pair of jeggings in the 7th grade, but they were more like spandex that just looked like denim. The material was weird – very thin and stretchy, and they didn’t have pockets.

      I tried on a pair at Ann Taylor a few weeks ago that were basically regular jeans with a bit of stretch to them. I don’t see why I would need to cover my butt with them. They don’t seem like leggings, they have back pockets, and they just seem like tight jeans.

      Maybe it was just that brand? FWIW, I didn’t buy them as they were too long, but am planning to get some from the petites area. I have small calves and skinny jeans don’t look right on me (huge from the ankle down) so i thought the jeggings would fit better.

  29. Shayna

    Anyone know where I can find duck shoes for less than $50? I want to get a pair of the classic low rubber duck shoes for this winter, but have only seen the classic Sporto’s – which is fine, but $50 seems like way more than I should spend on rubber footwear!

    • Ru

      I saw some in the LL Bean catalog I just got in the mail. They were definitely under $100, so it’s worth a shot.

  30. Sleepless in the South

    I recently noticed that I have developed very pronounced bags under my eyes. Most days it looks like I have two bags under each eye, but some days I’m fortunate enough to have three. I’m tired of having coworkers/friends/family members comment on how tired I look. Does anyone have any suggestions on any creams that will help with this (preferably not expensive)? Thanks so much!

    • Kelly

      I have used Benefit’s Eyecon for decent results with dark circles/slight puffiness…however for just puffiness, Preparation H has been the most effective method I’ve found. Seriously.

    • JSB

      Have you tried Preperation H? I know it sounds super strange but it really helps take down the swelling and smoothes out the skin. It’s a trick I picked up when I modeled and I have used it ever since. Then top with Bare Essentials concealer.

    • fresh jd

      I can only suggest getting enough sleep every night, as sleep deprivation is usually what creates the bag situation in the first place.

      But I just wanted to sympathize. Am I the only one who thinks it’s incredibly rude + insulting when coworkers tell you that you “look tired”? It’s so passive-aggressive, like they’re basically saying “you look like sh*t”.

      • cranky old batt

        Yes, it pisses me off. Just like “are your feeling well?”
        One day people will learn not to do this to a menopausal woman…

    • Sleepless in the South

      Thanks for the advice, ladies! I haven’t tried Preparation H, but I definitely will now!

      • govvie girl

        Have you gone to a dermatologist or aesthetician/facialist? They’d probably be able to recommend some tested treatments or procedures-or holistic approaches. I agree with the fact that those comments are rude anyway. Most of us are already aware of our aesthetic imperfections and it just doesn’t help. So…consider the obliviousness/crassness of the comment (and commenter) and press on. Or say back, “well, you look tactless.”

  31. Midori

    I have to brag to someone… I tripped out to the mall this morning with a page full of coupons and came home with a three-piece suit (all separates that fit nicely), a top, a sweater, a dress, a belt, and a necklace all for $280.

    All my DH sees is that I spent $280, but I’m sure you ladies will understand my triumph. :-)

    • Cat

      nice work :)

      When I head home with an “on its face this number sounds high, but…” armload (usually 2-3 times a year I’ll spend around $1000 on the marked-down-twice-then-on-the-40%-off-rack lucky finds) I hold each thing up for my hubby, announce the “original asking price” and then he has to guess “actual retail price.” Makes him appreciate what I didn’t spend — and in fact he now calls the difference a “profit” :)

      • Midori

        Ha! That’s a great idea! I think some men (and women too) just don’t really realize how much a good piece of work clothing costs, especially those who work in more “hands-on” environments. In my DH’s workplace, the only real dress requirement is long pants and steel-toes shoes. $40 for a shirt is kind of unthinkable to him.

      • anonymous4ever

        “he now calls the difference a ‘profit'”

        I wish I could cross-post this to every comments section every time *women* were referred to as suggestible and economically irrational

    • Samantha

      Wow, seriously impressed! Where did you buy this stuff? Any special sales that you recommend?

      • Midori

        The Limited. They were (and still are) running a buy a jacket and get pants or skirt free promotion. I also had a coupon for half off a suit (which, sadly, expired yesterday or I’d share). I know it’s not a “top of the line” brand, but their suits really do fit me well, even compared to my more expensive suits. Not for everyone, but they work for me.

        For what I was spending, it was worth it for me to get their credit card for the discount. Now I get free alterations and hemming, too. This is a big deal for my 5’9″ long-legged frame!

    • Shayna

      Congratulations!! As nice as finding something that looks fabulous is, it’s sooo much sweeter when you manage to do it for a great price!

  32. Caitlin

    Fashion advice needed!

    I am going to a wedding with my boyfriend in 2 weeks and meeting his hometown friends for the first time. Of course, I am worrying about what to wear!

    The wedding starts at 2:30PM and the reception is at 5. That means a short dress, right? (I have a black cocktail dress I could wear). Of course, my boyfriend is being completely unhelpful on this topic. I tried to ask and he just told me that it’s “quite formal” and that a long dress I sent him a picture of is better. However, I am not 100% sure that I trust him on this because a) he seems a bit clueless about the whole wedding thing, and b) I suspect that he just likes the color blue better than black.

    I don’t want to show up in a formal gown and everyone else is much more casual, especially since I am meeting them for the first time! I asked him to put me in touch with one of his female friends so that I could ask her, but he is being weird about it.

    Any advice??

    Read more: http://jezebel.com/5635714/saturday-night-social#ixzz0zHDFpva5

    • MelD

      I think a long gown would really be overdoing. In some areas, even cocktail attire at that hour is probably over the top. I went to one with a 2:30 ceremony and 5 o’clock reception where most of the women wore sundresses or other daytime outfits. You can probably get an idea of whether to go cocktail or a bit more casual from the venue.

      • Celia

        You could go long without being overly formal (a soft and flowy long dress – check out BCBG – might be a good compromise), or you might also just compromise with a tea-length dress that does daytime without risking that you’ll have the shortest dress there. At the end of the day, though, maybe just wear what he likes. Even if he seems clueless, if you end up over-dressed he’ll know it was his doing and probably be very sweet about it. On the other hand, if you ignore him and show up as the most underdressed person there after he specifically told you to wear a long dress, you most definitely won’t have his sympathy! And isn’t it better to show up too well dressed than under dressed?

  33. Samantha

    This is for those that remember (and gave me advice a couple of months ago) when I was feeling down about how difficult it was to try to conceive when you or your spouse travels during the week for work.
    Well, your advice to “just be patient and keep trying” worked, and I am now 10 weeks! Just wanted to share the good news, and for those who are in the same position I was in, a few days vacation to coordinate our schedules was a good idea.

    • JJ

      Congrats!!! I’m in the same boat and I find out next week whether this was the month (I have a good feeling this time). Here’s wishing you a healthy and happy 9 months.

      • anon

        In my experience, that “good feeling” was usually, in fact, a really awful feeling. But it was always accurate! Good luck.

    • Samantha

      Thanks everyone for the support! :) Did I mention I really like this community?
      JJ, good luck to you! Do post when you know.

      • JJ

        Thanks! Is it sad when we start hoping that the new pimples on our face are a result of pregnancy hormones and not just daily stress?

    • govvie girl

      Maybe the key word there was “vacation”…and you guys were able to relax a bit, and just enjoy each other. Congratulations!

  34. S in Chicago

    I’m not in law, but hubby is. Assistants when he worked downtown at a very large firm were a lot more formal than where he is now, semi-retired in a small practice on the North Shore. Because there is such wide variation, I would wait to see where you end up before investing too heavily in work pieces. When you come in for the interview, try to make a mental note of what others are wearing. (I know that sounds basic–but when your mind is in the interview, it can be so easy not to notice those sorts of minor details.)

    • Anon

      I think the neckline is waaaay too low for the office (check out the picture with the side view) – that is just a LOT of skin (and you’ll end up showing cleavage regardless of cup size). If it had a better neckline, I’d like it.

    • AMM

      yikes — i don’t think it is flattering on the model, so i doubt it would look anything close to decent on me. and i agree that the neckline is way too low.

    • L

      I think the dress is lovely looking, but agree the neckline is too low cut. JCrew, who are these dresses for?? Too formal for the truly business casual crowd; too low-cut for the more business than casual crowd.

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