Weekend Open Thread: Quince

69 Comments

1. Could someone give me a balanced summary of the whole H1B situation? I have family that is extremely pro H1B and friends who are against it, and the internet is equally confusing. Is there quantitative evidence that it really takes jobs away from Americans? It does seem reasonable that companies should at least be required to pay the same so its not a cheap loophole for companies. Cutting off H1Bs overnight is disruptive to peoples lives, but maybe reducing the number is warranted?

   1. I come at this as a native-born US citizen who got a masters in computer science from a flagship US university where the vast majority of my classmates and instructors were foreign born and started or hoped to start their careers via H1B visas in the US. Even pre-Trump the process was onerous enough that I got far more interviews than they did. They did get jobs fairly quickly, but I had an easier time and there definitely weren’t enough US citizens who could fill the positions.
      Faculty who were here on H1Bs were common, because there really aren’t enough US born computer science phDs who want to teach. Faculty salaries are the same for H1B holders as citizens. US citizens who are competent in computer science also tended to get pulled into cleared government positions that foreign workers understandably dont have access to. The Trump administration’s treatment of the federal workforce has turned that on its head, though I’m sure some are waiting it out.
      tl;dr, in my field there is a long and documented need for foreign talent. We cannot grow enough here.

      1. This is also my experience in the pharmaceutical industry.

      2. I think this is a pretty good encapsulation of the whole argument: “there really aren’t enough US born computer science phDs who want to teach”

         The argument against H1B visas is: the inability to attract American phd’s to teach is a sign that the university is underpaying. If there were no H1Bs, they would have to raise wages (or hire non-PhDs to teach), and that would benefit American workers. High wages in the has-a-cs-phd market would attract more US citizens to study CS, until demand was met.

         The argument for H1Bs is: if we have to pay more to attract US-born workers away from highly paid industry roles, we’ll have to raise tuition (ie. rising wages –> inflation). And, on average, we’ll be hiring worse instructors for our students (“Choose the best teacher you can find among a pool of 300 mil. people”, on average, yields less talent than “choose the best teacher from a pool of 8 billion people”, even if both teachers meet minimum requirements). Getting rid of H1Bs is a form of economic protectionism; it might benefit an individual American worker temporarily, but it undermines America’s long-term competitiveness.

         1. From what I’ve seen, the US k12 system doesn’t yield enough people with the math drive and skills to fill the need, and won’t without major cultural change that starts in the home. It’s one thing to talk about STEM careers in the abstract with students. It’s another to get them motivated enough to pass algebra 2 with any understanding of the material, much less calculus.

            1. There needs to be a major cultural change in the schools and the field of education too; there have been a lot of really bad top down errors coming from pseudo-experts in education here.

   2. The only reason to oppose H1Bs is ignorance and racism.

      1. That’s an ignorant racist statement.

   3. I work in tech, and my assessment would be four points:

      1. The stated rules for H1B (only for highly skilled, specialized roles where there’s truly no US citizen who could possibly do the role) doesn’t match the reality. TBH, I think anyone in tech would agree with that: there’s no possible way eg. a bog-standard “senior software developer” role can’t be filled with a US citizen. The current rules and enforcement of “how do you prove no American can do this job” do not do a good job of enforcing the stated rules.

      2. Related, the stated rules already call for H1B workers to be paid the same as US citizens. I do not think anyone thinks that is seriously enforced. It is very easy to make up a justification about why person X’s job duties are sligggghtly different than person Y’s. Sometimes the difference in compensation is in actual cash, and sometimes it’s just in eg. a manager treating someone poorly, or bad benefits, or knowing they’ll respond to 1am emails without pushback. I have absolutely heard people in leadership say things like “I have X dollars for raises; but 3 of my team are on H1b so I know they won’t leave even if they get $0”. Illegal? Sure. Is anyone going to do anything about it? Nope. (Related: allowing companies to sponsored H1B –> Perm conversion is basically allowing them to offer US citizenship as a non-monetary benefit to their employees. OF COURSE some employees value that very heavily, and will stay with a lower-paying job to get it. But it feels like a pretty giant giveaway to corporations to let them offer citizenship as a benefit!)

      3. I think there’s no clear evidence either way about whether removing H1Bs would be a net loss or a net win for American workers. If we shut down the H1B program overnight, some companies would hire US citizens for the same roles; and some companies would offshore that role entirely. And longer term, some companies might start doing a better job of hiring and training new grads, and treat their people better because they have to retain them; and also, it might undermine the long-term vitality of the tech industry (which is massively concentrated in the US, partially *because* we can pull people from the whole world). My personal assessment is that, if H1Bs went away, my career prospects would be stronger over the next 5 years, and weaker over the next 20 years.

      3. The vast majority of individuals I’ve worked with with H1B visas are smart, hardworking, thoughtful people, who I want good things to happen for.

      4. Technically, H1B (and the student visas a lot of people enter on prior to converting to H1B) are *temporary* visas, not intended to be the first step in immigration. In practice, everyone thinks of them as an immigration pathway, and the vast majority of people who pursue them want to stay in the US permanently (or at least until retirement), buy homes and build their lives here, raise their kids here, etc. So that is another discrepancy where the officially stated purpose (not an immigrant visa) and the reality on the ground conflict, which leads to frustration on both sides (if you think of it as a permanent choice, restrictions like 60 days grace period to find a new job after a layoff feel harsh and unfair; and if you think of it as “we were sold this as a temporary non immigrant visa, but most people on it are using it to immigrate permanently, they’re cheating”)

      1. +1 to all of this

      2. Thank you for this incredibly nuanced and detailed take. I’m American, worked for one of the companies on the banned list with a lot of H1Bs and OPTs, my husband is in tech surrounded by H1Bs and we call many of them friends. I agree with most of what you said, especially around the short term gain and long term damage to the tech industry.

      3. This is really helpful and makes a lot of sense, thanks!

      4. this this this. I genuinely adore and value my h1b coworkers, want them to have a partner to citizenship and am very upset for them about the insecurity the current administration is causing them. At the same time, I think the system is very flawed and that companies should have better systems to train new grads.

         1. +1000

            regardless of whether you fall on the big-picture economic question (“Is it net-good or net-bad for American workers if the country imports a lot of highly-educated workers”), there’s low-hanging fruit reforms that you could implement that don’t shift the overall number of workers at all. (And at the very least, workers coming on H1B deserve predictability in what the “terms” of their visa are actually going to be, not the current administration’s total cluster*).

      5. You are choosing to look at things a certain way here, but H1B simply is the main existing pathway to inject educated workers into the economy and taxpayers into society. Your country needs to get clear on how many years of taxation with no representation are enough to earn the right to stay. Telling highly educated people to relocate across continents for a 6 year stint in which they are at the mercy of one employer is not a strong value proposition for someone who can get good work elsewhere.
         H1B is not a non-immigrant visa, it’s literally a dual intent type visa, which is why transitioning to a green card is possible.

         1. Yes, if you think “inject more educated workers and taxpayers in the economy” is a net win for American workers (which is a different thing than “makes stock prices go up and increases GDP”), then a much-easier H1B process is a logical conclusion(ie. remove the requirement for an employer to have attempted to hire an American first, no annual cap, etc)

            I think whether or not high (or even uncapped) educated worker import is a net good for American workers is an unanswered question. Like I said, I lean towards Yes, but I see arguments for No. (And I haven’t seen compelling evidence that economists strongly agree on a particular answer, although I’m happy to look at data!)

            I do think there’s things we can and should do to make being an H1B worker more humane, that everyone could agree on regardless of where they land on the economic issue, like making it so that an emergency in your home country qualifies you for an emergency visa stamping appointment. That policy is just a “the cruelty is the point” policy.

   4. I’m an immigrant and I struggle with the H1B program. I am in a good school district and the standards are low. I’m having to tutor my child so they are able to take AP calculus BC.

      It’s not about spending more. The standards need to improve at least a grade level and they need to ditch the Chromebook for homework.

      We are the country that pioneered multiple choice testing for testing aptitude. I was educated abroad and we had zero MCQs. My kids rarely have essays to write. We then wonder why they can’t write an email.

      When we take talent from another country, it unfairly affects the country that paid for the education.

      The US has had decades to figure out the software engineering and hasn’t. It’s cheaper to keep importing labor.

      1. I agree that the typical good US school district still has pretty low standards (even if they try to obscure this in different ways).

         I also agree that MCQs are a problem. I have overheard professional school students in highly ranked programs studying for their MCQ exams and making mistakes that they could have avoided with a little reasoning. But they’re just cramming and memorizing. It shows.

      2. The U.S. has not had immigration reform in so many years, so most of this energy towards one visa type is a red herring, IMO.

         H1B visa’s are also:

         A way of keeping wages low for all. It is rare for someone with that visa type to be at the top of the wage band.
         Brain drain- Another country’s investment in education is enticed to work in the U.S. rather than participating in creating a better economy in their home country.
         The restrictions for that visa mean that if or when you marry, your spouse cannot work regardless of their education, also curtailing their ability to build a life without financial restrictions.

2. does anyone have a smart home thermostat? i think we want to upgrade from our 2015-era Ecobee but i’m not sure what. i hate that the house just can’t be the temperature i want it to be year round, i hate the stupid 5 degree ranges and having to adjust for the seasons.

   1. No. I just have a regular thermostat, and it’s the temperature I want it to be year round, no adjusting, no ranges.

      1. Mine finally died. Which one do you have? I just want a simple regular programmable one. Do you recommend yours? I only use it for heat.

         1. Looks like it’s a Honeywell Home T-Series ProSeries. I’ve only had it a few years since replacing the 30+ year old HVAC system, so I’m not sure whether it will last as long as its predecessor. But it seems to be pretty much the same otherwise.

            I realized I do have to choose whether it’s set to AC or to heat, but if you’re only using a thermostat for heat, that’s no worry!

   2. I just switched from a first-generation Nest (which I hated but learned to live with by setting it to be the same as a dumb thermostat) to an Ecobee because Google stopped supporting the old Nests and I needed to be able to control it from my phone. Ugh. I hate the Ecobee because apparently there’s no way to make it completely dumb, as I could with the Nest.

      Anyway, you might want to look at one of the newer Nests because apparently it’s still possible to make it completely manual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awW8fUyMGlU I wish I’d known…

      1. Why not just buy the new nest? Sell the ecobee on FB marketplace and accept that the loss is the price for daily happiness. I’m probably more frugal than most on this site but I will happily ‘waste’ a hundred dollars if it makes every single day better.

         1. Hmm. That’s not the worst idea.

   3. I’ve had a Sensi thermostat for 8 or 9 years, it’s been fine and works well with my iPhone.

   4. We just replaced a very old hvac system with manual tstat for a new super efficient system that cane with a smart stat, it’s a daiken. I love it bc i can set programs by the day with multiple steps, like “cool the house when perimenopausal mom is trying to go to sleep but then ket it warm up a few degrees so everyone else isn’t frozen out.” Also we can adjust settings remotely which has actually come in handy multiple times for things like my FiL stopping by while we’re away.
      There are no 5 dgree ranges but it has settings like “overcool to dehumidify” which is super nice in summer. . We had a (1st or 2nd gen?) nest in our old house and i used to use the geofence to set the temps back when we were gone. Daiken does not appear to have this ability, although i’m sure a smarter person could make AI do it for them.

   5. I have a standard dumb programmable thermostat. It keeps the house at the temperature I have programmed very nicely. No 5-degree ranges. And I don’t have to worry about its spying on me and sending my data to Jeff Bezos.

      1. Which are you using?

      2. Same here. We briefly switched to a smart thermostat and changed back to the old dumb programmable one after the other refused to stay connected to our WiFi. I pulled it off the wall and reinstalled the programmable one when I could not turn the A/C on during last summer’s heat wave, because the stupid “smart” thing wouldn’t let me get beyond the WiFi connection attempt screen to actually control the temps. The novelty of (sometimes) being able to tweak the temp from a phone app wasn’t worth the completely unnecessary and totally random downtime. Imagine if that had happened during the winter cold spells, especially if I were gone at work! I would have come home to frozen and burst pipes.

   6. If you have Apple, they are launching some new Home compatible products made by LG.

3. what’s your go-to fall jacket this season? are we still doing denim?

   1. I’m not. Denim jackets give me the ick.

   2. I still do denim here and there, but in non-traditional cuts and it’s not my go to. This season I’m into wool bomber jackets.

   3. Bomber from Aritzia and cropped barn jacket

   4. Cream colored barn jacket. And I’ve seen a lot of versions of that around.

4. My husband ‘broke up’ with me today for the like hundredth time because I got a haircut (during work hours with my own money, just a trim no substantive change!) without telling him, so that makes me a ‘liar’ who ‘hides things’. I know the cycle but y’all I’m tired. Because obviously when I do tell him about mundane sh!t he gets mad at me for wasting his time telling him about stuff that doesn’t matter, no winning.

   1. I’m sorry. You already know you need to go. Some people are just this way and need to find their annoying equal.

      Until you make a decision, can you just ignore his tantrums? “You got me! Total liar!”

   2. This is abuse, and a DTMFA situation.

      1. Yep, I first read boyfriend and thought oh good, break that right off. A husband is more involved but no one should live like that.

      2. This will only escalate. Talk to a psychologist and a divorce attorney.

         Also get a STD test; men who accuse their partners of hiding things are often cheating.

         1. Amen to your second sentence. They’re always projecting.

      3. Yeah. Good Lord. Life is too short to live with nonsense like that.

      4. +1 get away from this man. Carefully.

      5. 100%

      6. Yes. I promise I’m not trying to pile on, just make sure this is very clear- this behavior is Not Okay. Please get out and if you’re struggling to please let us know why and post a burner so we can help you do it.

   3. Friend, this is well outside of the normal. Of course you’re tired!

      Can you give yourself one concrete step towards getting out? If you don’t know where to start, how about the plan is: “On Monday at lunch at work, I’m going to schedule an initial consultation a divorce lawyer”.

   4. Why are you staying with this man? Is it worth it?

   5. There’s no winning. Stop calling his bluff and break up for real.

   6. The divorce is going to suck, but then it’s done. Take the short amount of high dose suck so you can stop living with perennial low dose suck.

      1. This is a great way to put it. When I was going through my divorce, I kept telling myself “this time next year, things will be a lot better,” and guess what? It turned out to be true!

   7. What do you mean when you say he “broke up” with you? He got mad at you? Gave you the silent treatment or ?? Is he normally a controlling a-hole? Do you have kids together? I think you know that your relationship is unhealthy. Please, please consider why you have such little self esteem that you would put up with this type of behavior from this POS.

   8. See his “break up” and raise with a divorce.

   9. DTMFA

   10. I am worried for your safety and wellbeing. I hope you have support in your life. https://www.thehotline.org/ has information and links to resources.

   11. The only way to win is to get a divorce.

   12. What everyone else said, plus double down on birth control until you leave him permanently.

   13. It doesn’t have to be physical abuse. It doesn’t have to be The Worst Thing Ever. It doesn’t have to be So Serious – he wants to “break up” or leave you feeling that way over a haircut.

       You can “break up” for real or being “broken up with” or left feeling like that over a haircut.

       It’s not a good healthy normal relationship, and he will never see that. He justifies it in his head. What do you tell yourself in your head? Why can’t y’all talk to each other, and if you do, is it worth it?

5. Just a warning and a grumble….Loft has all these great sales, free shipping, etc. But their returns are now $9.95. I don’t have a Loft store near me and this is infuriating! Returns used to be maybe $6? Just got sticker shock from sorting out a return and felt like yelling about it!

   1. Yeah, I stopped shopping at Loft. Last time they sent me a defective item (one leg’s inseam seam wasn’t sewn straight) I had to do a chargeback with my credit card to get a full refund. They insisted I owed them return shipping costs and a restock fee for a defective product.

6. Purse / clutch shopping help! I want a small, thin clutch that fits an iPhone, keys, and business card case. Like 6”?
   Catch is I sometimes have nerve pain in my fingers and instead of a shoulder or thin strap wristlet or handle, I would like to be able to slide my entire hand and wrist through a wide strap / sleeve on the side of the clutch. I found a “Mare Handle Clutch” on able but it is too big for what I want. I am not sure what that closure/sleeve is called, handle gets me the wrong kind of result. Open to any solid color or neutral print. Size and carrying method is the biggest issue. Any suggestions?

   1. This one is hand made, you might be able to contact the leathersmith and get something that is modified. https://maineleatherco.com/products/new-medi-clutch?variant=31317122646077&country=US&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&srsltid=AU7gw4Wu3X9T4t-6QFdEwp9COR9bQrOM_U_YNxXcq-hiGerd0RVjpEUnDy4 This is a different shape, but has a wide strap, so maybe it would work? https://thewillowtree.com/products/burgundy-wristlet

   2. I’m in mod, but Maine Leather Works has a similar one, and it says it’s hand made, so maybe contact them and see if you could get a custom one made?

   3. It’s larger than you’d like, but I think the Lily Wristlet from Portland Leather could work for you. I have an old wristlet from Coach that also works, too; however, I will warn you that holding something around the wrist never worked for me and I left that wristlet twice while running errands and had to go back and retrieve it.

   4. Mgemi has a few styles of this kind of bag. I have this one and love it. https://mgemi.com/products/the-doppio-saddle-suede-and-leather

   5. https://www.etsy.com/listing/808857981/classic-leather-clutch-for-evening-or

      https://www.etsy.com/listing/1126067433/clutch-with-handleleather-clutch-bag

      https://stockyardx.com/products/clutch-bag-with-handle_single_malt_mahogany

7. T-shirt PSA. After trying a bunch of tees, the Hanes Perfect Tee in organic cotton wins. Not too thin, flattering cut and doesn’t dissolve immediately like Madewell tees. Size up so it looks current.

   1. Nice – thanks!

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