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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Wool Blazer

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This blazer from from Scotch & Soda is a bestseller at Bloomingdale's. I like the darts, the little flat pockets, and the classic look to it — it looks like a basic blazer that you can wear as a topper for almost anything. The knit/wool look reminds me of this super-soft Rag & Bone blazer that we've featured; that one was $500, but this is just half that at $248. It comes in sizes XS-L. Wool Blazer Here are two more affordable options in regular sizes, and a plus-size option (also in other size ranges). This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.5

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321 Comments

  1. My neck and upper shoulders always hurt. I get a burning pain in that area several times a day that requires me to stop and stretch my neck. I thought it was just from sitting at a desk but it happened over this past weekend while I was vacationing. Does anyone else have this and know how to make it stop?

    2. You could have a pinched nerve issue with your neck. It can come from sleeping, yoga, romantic pursuits or any quick moving in an awkward position. You may want to visit with your doctor for starters. I had similar issues with my ex fiancée who was a bedroom acrobat (and wanted for me to be one too).

    3. I used to get a burning neck pain like that. It was on the back of my neck towards the outside. Sort of in the 5 o’clock position if the nose is 12 o’clock. For me it was stress induced. On a whim I went to a little massage place in my shopping mall, and told them what hurt. One 30 minute neck and shoulder rub later, and the pain was gone!

    6. Salonpas or Icyhot patches might help with the pain. You might also consider going to a PT for posture issues?

    7. I’ve had this before and it was tight muscles pinching a nerve. Go in for a massage asap and that should help. Then find a PT and see if you can figure out how to avoid those muscles bunching up again. Stress can definitely be a factor.

    9. Go to a doctor. Do you use your phone a lot? I read that the pain you are describing is now common because so many people are looking down at their phones.

    10. I had this for a while, and eventually it got so bad that it turned into a stabbing pain a little lower. I woke up one day and couldn’t turn my head at all. I’ve been in physical therapy for two months, and it’s finally getting better. Apparently bad posture (terrible, really) coupled with carrying my stress in my neck and shoulders combined over time to cause issues in my neck, upper back, shoulder blades, and ribs. Literally, everything was so tight and out of whack that it pulled my ribs out of alignment.

      Don’t be me and wait until it becomes unbearable. I’d focus on your posture, and I’d definitely see a physical therapist. They can give you exercises to strengthen certain areas, which will help hold everything in proper alignment. And they can help you work on your posture, as well as teach you to keep certain muscles relaxed where you usually might feel your stress. They even showed me how to push my rib back into alignment on my own.

  2. Need some advice on what, if anything, I should do in this situation:

    I was lucky enough to find a job at a big bank that is flexible and allows me a great deal of autonomy. I just had a baby and the transition to working mom has been better than I could have dreamed. We have a live in nanny who basically runs the household- all errands, cleaning, etc and who is absolutely amazing with my daughter. We have family close by to help take the baby for a few hours at a time to free up the nanny to take care of the other stuff. I have time to take my daughter to morning swim class and work from home some days, I can get home in time to spend 4 hours in the evening with my daughter and finish work up from home. I never in a million years pictured the juggle going to smoothly or seamlessly. I am SO happy. I love snuggling with my daughter and doing silly baby stuff with her and I love being able to get dressed up in a suit and the rush that comes with a big meeting. I can’t believe how lucky I am to get to do both.

    My husband on the other hand, has been pretty MIA. He is working at a crazy busy job, but is also voluntarily taking on a ton of mindless, menial work to save his team from being stuck with it. He’s a great manager in this way, by not asking anyone to do anything he wouldn’t do, but I feel like it’s veering toward martyrdom and he is literally always working. He’s great with our daughter when he’s able to focus on her, but I feel like his laptop is the ever present thing lurking in the background. I’ll leave the two of them to shower or do something around the house and will come back to the baby sitting in her swing while he sits on the couch and works. I have no problem with plopping the baby in the swing occasionally, but its so sad to see her smile at him or babble in his direction and just not have him engage because he’s absorbed with his computer.

    Do I say anything? Some of the craziness is beyond his control, but a lot of it seems self inflicted. I don’t want to live like this! My daughter deserves more than to constantly have her Dad with his nose buried in a computer and with a short fuse due to work stress. And I’m so sad for him because I want to yell “you’re missing it!!!” She’s not going back to the tiny little baby stage. She laughs, rolls over, and wants to walk so badly and I feel like it blew right by him. But I don’t want to make him feel bad. I just want to encourage him to reevaluate so it doesn’t continue like this. Because part of me also knows that I’m fine being the default parent for now, but in addition to wanting him to enjoy the baby stuff, I’ll be resentful if I’m working and making more than 50% of our money while also being the only engaged parent. Help!

    2. Eh, since everything is running smoothly and this isn’t an issue of you needs his help, but rather you wanting him to have a certain parenting experience, I’d back off. He (like a lot of people) might not find the baby’s every move all that exciting or interesting (even if it’s his own kid). Personally, I’d try talking to him, but more in the context of what you want your parenting experience to look like and don’t lose sight of your relationship with him while you get sucked into babyland.

      1. +1. You may find that he becomes more engaged when your daughter is a little older and more interactive. Some people just aren’t baby people. It sounds as if you and the nanny are giving your daughter plenty of the direct interaction that’s necessary for brain development, so I wouldn’t worry too much just yet. A detached dad is a much bigger problem for a 12-year-old than for an infant.

      2. I see what you’re saying.

        My spouse provides child care that I wouldn’t pay someone to provide. I try to defeat his impulse to watch a screen while the kids watch different screens by putting him on tasks — take them to place X (screen-unfriendly), run errand Y (screen-unfriendly), and joint family things outside (parks, hiking, strollering back when they were younger). It is an uphill climb.

        Bartering: if you go take William to Target and get diapers, I will start dinner.

        Happy times: if you take Betsy to get tacos, I will run William to his friend’s house

        Yeah, I’d prefer that he have some better habits. But I am the change I want to see in the world, sometimes :)

        1. Oh man, the putting him on tasks thing really freaks me out about potentially being partnered with children. I don’t want to assign tasks to my partner! That’s way too much emotional labor.

      3. I don’t *need* his help in that the trains still run on time without it, but it would certainly be useful. I think I’m also nervous that if the nanny and I just handle everything at this stage, I’m going to “know” how to do everything and he’s going to be less comfortable with kid stuff going forward, which perpetuates the cycle of me doing everything. I also thought there’d be a little more of us figuring things out together – like how do you even cut a newborns fingernails!?! And less of me googling things alone at night.

        1. The best advise that my sister in law ever gave me was that, if you do not want the situation you describe above (where he does not know how to do things), that you have to get out of the way and let him figure it out, even if that means physically absenting yourself to curb your instinct to step in.

          You chose to have a baby with this man, and you know that he loves her and won’t let her get hurt – so make plans and leave him in charge. He will figure it out – how to bathe, feed, soothe, whatever, in his own way. Repeat as needed.

          1. ^ really agree with this. I went on a 3 day/2 night long weekend trip when my kid was 6 months old. Told DH not to call me unless there was an actual emergency. He emerged from this experience a much more confident parent.

    3. Was his work style like this before you had the baby? Perhaps talk to him about being present when present and increasing his distraction free interaction with her. It sounds like you’ve got a little bit of a unicorn set-up so don’t be overly harsh that he doesn’t have the same freedom. Are there some tweaks he can make to lessen his stress?
      But, at the same time, this is a long game. Not everyone enjoys each stage of children. It’s doesn’t make them a bad parent, just that some people do better with talking to a pre-school age child about imaginary friends than playing peekaboo 100x with a cooing infant. I liked the toddler months far more than the infant months (they were a little boring tbh) even though I loved my kid to death. I would have been hurt had someone been giving me a hard time about not enjoying it to their standard when I was enjoying it to the best of my standard.

    4. Men sometimes struggle with adjustment to parenthood. The tiny baby stage isn’t for everyone but working too much makes it hard for him to build a relationship with baby. Parenting is a marathon not a sprint so he may be better at other stages.

      Do you think he might be interested in babywearing? There’s no reason he couldn’t sit at the laptop and work while baby snoozes in the carrier. The phyiscal closeness might be good for their bonding.

      I 100% understand that this doesn’t fix your problem of him being engaged with baby but I think you need to present not just what you want him to stop (working so much) but also ideas about how specifically you would like him to engage more.

      1. I mean, I’m guessing all humans regardless of gender sometimes struggle with the adjustment to parenthood. Dudes shouldn’t get a pass just for being dudes.

        1. Where did I say to give him a pass? And I referenced men because she asked about her husband.

    5. Please say something. I’m your DH in my situation and until my husband verbalized that he wanted me to put work away and be present at home and away from work, I didn’t think it was a big deal or that it bothered him.

      1. + 1. My husband is a super engaged parent BUT he looks as his computer/phone way too much, with or without the kids. Last year, my 4 year old son told him, “Daddy, you look at your phone too much and don’t pay play with me.” which was a huge wake up call for him. All of us look at our technology way too much.

      2. +1 I’m also your husband in this situation and needed the wake up call. Also i think it’s important to say something or else you may find yourself shouldering the burden for the rest of kiddo’s life. Having an equitable parenting arrangement is so important to me (maybe it isn’t for you and that’s fine too!) and I think the early months can set the stage for that distribution of labor in the long term.

    6. Say something. My DH was a much more engaged parent when we had or 2nd because he knew what he’d miss.

    7. I’m not sure how old your baby is but my husband became way more involved with our daughter when she reached the toddler stage of walking and engaging with words. We were married nine years before baby and I tell people he was annoyed the whole first year of her life, to the point of saying, “I don’t see what you think is so great. She doesn’t *do* anything.” Several months later they were running laps around our house and planting grass seed together. He works a ton – IP law – but not so much at home. He’s more of a go in the office and get it done person. There’s great hope that your husband will become more engaged later. Women can be more enthralled with babies. You may also want to see if he’s willing to set times to not have his phone or lap time around, even if just ask the dinner table or during a bedtime routine. The only thing we’ve probably done properly as parents is eat dinner together as much as possible and had story time well past the age my daughter could read on her own. I’m glad things are working out so well on your end!

      1. One more thing – I only remember him changing one diaper or doing any laundry but he goes to the grocery store a lot, prepares most of our food and helps with high school math which is a bit of a bonding experience – for better or worse! We are lucky to have help but I’m not sure everyone needs to share all the duties.,although I like to think I could get a meal on the table and he could wash a load of clothes if necessary.

      2. Wow. This is awful. So because he was not enamored with a baby, he totally absolved himself of any work related to it until she was more fun for him? Once you decide to have a kid, you’re sort of stuck with the responsibility regardless of how fun they are. Guys don’t get a pass just because “poop is yucky” or whatever. I mean, you do you and all that jazz, but I hope we’re moving past this mentality as a society. There is nothing special about women that make them better at changing a diaper or holding a bottle.

        1. “There is nothing special about women that make them better at changing a diaper or holding a bottle.”

          You can certainly keep telling yourself that. “Better” is arguable; what’s known is that mothers have more *motivation* to change diapers, give bottles, etc. because women actually have biophysical reactions when babies cry. I believe there was even a study that found that an unrelated woman had more of a biophysical reaction to a baby crying than that baby’s own biological father. Men are not women. Hormonal differences are real. Get over it.

          I had a very similar experience to the poster above – my husband was excited to be a father and loves our kids to pieces, but the baby stage just does not do it for him. I didn’t let him off the hook as far as sharing parenting duties, but I did understand it when he would go through the motions more than being absorbed in every little moment. I love my kids and I like babies in general, but I can’t fundamentally disagree that babies are kind of boring. Give me a four-year-old any day.

          1. My dad got up in the middle of the night when we called out. When we would complain and ask for Mom, he’d reply, “Your mother needs her sleep.” When Mom was away, he cooked all the meals, changed most of the diapers (as the oldest girl, I also knew how to change diapers), and did all necessary child care. He supervised our daily chores, so that a) Mom wouldn’t have to and b) those chores made it easier on her. He could make baby formula from scratch. (There were 7 kids in my family.) When he came home from work, he’d take us all into the living room to play, so that Mom could make dinner without interruption. When his job demanded extra long hours, he applied for and got a higher security clearance so he could bring work home and see us before we went to bed. He embarrassed all of us all the time by showing up–during the work day!– at Girl and Boy Scout events, school events, church events. He was the only father there!

            Dad was born in 1926.

            It’s kind of depressing to hear that fathers today are more detached from their children.

          2. Plenty of humans are able to do something unpleasant, even if they’re not biophysically called to do so. I’m somehow able to mow the lawn, even though it doesn’t pain me in the slightest to let it grow tall, because that’s part of the responsibility of owning a home in my town. Dads are certainly capable of changing a diaper because that’s part of the responsibility of having a child. No biophysical reactions required.

    8. In addition to what everyone else said, please also stop thinking that you’re making more money therefore he should contribute more time. There’s a difference between someone who makes little money because he’s a slacker vs someone who makes little money because his job doesn’t pay well and someone who goes on weekend fishing trips with the buddies vs someone who spends his weekend working (even if needlessly). Sure, talk to him about working less and spending more time with kiddo for healthy family dynamics or whatever, but get it out of your mindset that you’re somehow entitled to his time because you bring in more cash.

      1. I don’t feel entitled to his time because I make more money, but I do feel entitled to an active co-parent because I’m also working.

        1. Except you brought the money thing up like it matters: “I’ll be resentful if I’m working and making more than 50% of our money while also being the only engaged parent.”
          All I’m saying is, it’s okay to want equal parenting. Just don’t make it about who makes more. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but if I read it that way, then he can also hear it that way if you ever bring it up like you did here.

        2. Yeah, I agree, I was surprised by the money mentioned at the end. I think there’s more underlying resentment than you might like to admit.

  3. It really does nothing for the model. I want to like it, but if the model looks like a trim rectangle, I might look like a sad trapezoid.

    Love the concept though.

    Has anyone tried this IRL?

    1. I don’t think it looks bad on the model (she’s just not curvy) but even if it did, I don’t think that translates to “it will look bad on me.” Sometimes the things that look awesome on models look awful on me and the inverse is also true. I recently bought some gap pants in store and wanted to get another pair in a different color because I liked them so much and I was shocked to see how they looked on the model. If I hadn’t tried them in person I would have never in a million years ordered them; they looked like different pants.

    2. She is like me; is svelte with a boy’s body. We do the layered look so as not to call too much attention to our top. My boyfriend does not focus on my boobs anyway, which causes him to focus his attention where it counts!

  4. In my last year of undergrad (three years ago) I interned at a govt agency where I met a woman that helped shaped my career interests/what i decided to focus on in grad school. We’re connected via LinkedIn and i noticed a few days ago that she was promoted to a director position at that same agency doing really interesting work in our field. I’d love to intern again for them as a grad student intern next summer while im working on my masters thesis.

    Should I reach out to her when its time to start applying for summer internships (around the fall) to see if she has any positions available or just to chat? In all honestly I’d even settle for an informational interview and get some career tips or something. She was really sweet/gave me a lot of good advice but I never kept in touch so I dont know if itll be weird and out of the blue if I reach out since its been so long.

    1. Yes! Reach out! I’m this person at my company, and I love having former interns get in touch.

        2. Yes, but first you should make sure she drink’s coffee. Many peeople in the goverment drink Chai tea, so ask her if she would perfer to go to Starbuck’s for Chai Tea. Also, depending on where you are, you can also go to a coffee / tea bar in Manhattan. There is a place on 3rd Avenue I like. I was kind of dumb when I was first lookeing for a job. No one told me about takeing a potential boss out for tea / coffee. Now I do it all the time, sometimes with opposing council, and alot of the times with the judge (who is MARRIED). I know that so we are nearly always in public places together. YAY!!!!

  5. For the past few years, I’ve noticed that my tailbone (at least I think it’s my tailbone?) aches whenever I sit in a chair for a while. It gets downright painful if I’m on a plane, even if I shift my weight, get up frequently, etc (although it does get relieved if I shift my weight ALL the way forward, which is then uncomfortable). I don’t recall this happening when I was younger and it happens even if I’m on a soft surface. Does anyone have any idea why this is happening and if anything can be done? Maybe it’s muscle weakness masquerading as a tailbone problem or something?

    1. If you’ve had kids, sometimes pregnancy and childbirth can affect the alignment of the tailbone and pelvis. I’d see a doctor. There is some therapy they can prescribe.

    3. Your lower back could be causing pain from a soft mattress. Also, you should examine if you have been doing anything new recently in that area. Yoga, stretching, sit-ups, strap-on couplings with your significant other, bicycling, etc. visit with your MD or orthopedist if it persists.

        1. Oh come on. The rest of that comment is perfectly on topic, with one obviously joking thing thrown in. Get over yourself.

        2. Look at her other comment today. Both of them are like this- Normal, normal, normal, LGP! “Bedroom acrobat and wanted me to be one too” oooook

    4. If it’s not your tailbone, could you be pinching your sciatic nerve? I used to have one particular cheek that would get uncomfortable when I sat for extended periods. A figure-four stretch while sitting helped – same sort of stretch as a supine pigeon or regular pigeon pose, but a little easier to do in public.

    5. OMG, my husband and I are both suffering from this. Doesn’t matter what the cause is, PT can help it. See your doc and ask for a referral. Planes were awful for me too, like pain that takes your breath away every time you stand up or shift positions, right?

      I forget what the diagnosis is – something like SI joint inflammation. My pain has vastly improved after just a few PT appointments and regular exercises. Good luck!

    6. A lot of chairs are designed to have you recline a bit instead of being well-aligned, and plane seats are some of the worst. You’re probably resting some weight on or around your tailbone. In seats that do this – usually they’re either too deep or have a backwards-tilted back – I tend to sit forward and make sure I’m on my sitz bones, with my shoulders over my hips and my ears over my shoulders to prevent the pain you’re talking about.

    7. I experience this too. I chalked it up to cycling, but it happens even if I haven’t ridden in awhile. Thanks for posting, because now I’m motivated to get this checked out.

  6. I know that Charleston is everyone’s first suggestion here (maybe after Asheville) for places to visit in the SEUS. It is a magnificently beautiful place. But I just can’t get over the backstory (and how little that is even acknowledged). Is it just me?

    1. The entire country is built on slavery. At least in Charleston when I visit I spend time actually acknowledging that.

      1. I’ve never been to Charleston, but I agree with 9:20 anonymous. It’s not the only place in the US built on slavery.

      2. Post-Hamilton, I have developed a crush on John Laurens. He’s very google-able.

        And then I watch Southern Charm (housemate’s choice) and am so blown away by how wretched and horrid these people are that I have started to question whether I still believe in evolution.

        1. Please don’t form opinions on people in Charleston/Savannah/Atl, etc based on horrible reality tv shows that are essentailly caricatures. There are horrible people everywhere.

          1. Oh, no. That most horrid person on that show is clearly not a local. And probably only the felon is a local, which is slightly less inaccurate casting than Jersey Shore, which is saying something.

      3. Slavery was not in tHe “entire country,” but I do agree that its history in the northeast gets ignored and it’s relation to the founding fathers does get ignored

        1. 9:20 didn’t say slavery was everywhere, but that everywhere was built on it, which I think is true. Northern cities relied on raw material from the south, which was largely produced by slaves.

          I don’t disagree that Charleston (and other cities) are MORE tied to slavery, though.

    2. It’s important to acknowledge the negative sides of history, but if you stopped yourself from going places because of it, you could never go anywhere (Germany, former British colonies, any state in the U.S. because of Native American forcible eviction, former USSR countries, China, you name it). Take the time to learn the history, but don’t hold yourself to an impossible purity standard for places to visit because most places are tainted with some kind of terrible history of human rights violations.

      1. +1

        Good point about Native Americans especially. The entire US is home to genocide.

    3. Yeah, there’s no innocent place to visit. Even beyond slavery, every inch of this country that’s not a Reservation is land that was taken from Native Americans.

      Go to Charleston. Don’t go to the plantations, unless there’s a decent one in Charleston that I don’t know about? They exist, but I don’t know any in SC. And by “decent”, I mean “puts chattel slavery at the center of the presentation of the plantation’s history, and acknowledges it as a site of gross human rights abuses.” Visiting a plantation should feel more like visiting Auschwitz than like going to the Biltmore Estate.

      Anyway, there’s a rich African American history in the area that you can explore. Patronize black-owned restaurants along with the usual (white-owned) suspects. Take in the history and use it as an opportunity to understand how far we’ve come in this country, as well as how far we have left to go.

      1. Thank you for pinning down what was bothering me so much: Visiting a plantation should feel more like visiting Auschwitz than like going to the Biltmore Estate.

        I have gotten a lot of “plantations are so pretty” and “these people are from a famous family of rice planters” with no sense of “hey, you have a lot of $ left over if you’re not paying your labor.” It was practically bringing out the wild-eyed abolitionist within.

        [And I see this everywhere — why so many Dutch / Portuguese places in places around. Oh, I get it.]

        And Asheville is where planters went in the summer, so no wonder the mountains of NC have fancy things and people from out of town. It’s all the fabric.

        1. Yeah, when we were in Mississippi there was a plantation whose promotional materials said that back in the day, “everybody had a good time at [our plantation].” And I’m thinking, “yeah, not everybody.”

        2. “A civics lesson from a slaver. Hey neighbor
          Your debts are paid cuz you don’t pay for labor
          “We plant seeds in the South. We create.”
          Yeah, keep ranting
          We know who’s really doing the planting”

      3. I found the McLeod Plantation Historical Site to be a decent plantation, based on your definition. It’s publicly owned, and their tours focus almost exclusively on the experiences of enslaved people and their descendants who remained on the plantation after the war. I believe it opened fairly recently, and I was pleased to discover it when I visited Charleston last year.

      4. I agree. There really isn’t a “pure” place to visit, but something about Charleston (among other locations) seems to glamorize it all. Combined with the fact that race relations are not ideal… it’s troubling. The idea that people consider getting married on plantations makes me nauseous.

        1. Thanks for the McLeod rec! I have not been to Charleston in about a decade, but will check it out the next time I’m there.

    4. I visited Charleston for the first time about a year or so ago, and I agree. It’s beautiful, but I was disturbed by… I guess you could call it the glossing over of the horrors of slavery. We went on a plantation tour and the tour guide was chirping away about how the plantation had had >100 slaves and then asked people to call out guesses as to how much a slave would cost (it felt like a mock auction). We toured the slave houses on the property and they were tiny and awful and thinking about how many people used to be crammed into those spaces and the abuses they must have suffered…there was a real cognitive dissonance. I’m not sure what I expected – I don’t expect the people running these tours today to apologize for slavery – but I think a more realistic acknowledgement and perspective on slavery would be a good start. I can’t say that I’d never go back, but if I did I’d try to spend more time in Charleston finding those sorts of experiences.

      1. I guess the good thing is that you can eat and drink yourself silly and blot it all out.

        But I get back to my city and look around at the awful schools and sign up for math tutoring. My city is close enough that I run into the descendants of people who claim to be from old Charleston families and kind of wish some woke would happen to them. Or to someone. They can hang out in Cashiers in the summer and go to their beach houses, but I feel like they fuss about their people all the time but the mess their people made is something that they have no interest in fixing.

      2. I’d recommend taking a tour with Gullah Tours in Charleston – http://gullahtours.com/- Gullah is the language spoken by the area’s first black inhabitants, and the tour provides into their experiences and history.

      3. Calling out guesses as to how much a slave cost? That’s…awful. I can’t even imagine that this place thinks that’s OK or a “fun activity” while touring a plantation.

    5. I agree it’s beautiful and the food is great but it’s not a place I would go back to. It’s the only place in the US I’ve experienced blatant anti-Semitic harassment.

      The plantation tours bother me a ton, but I think they’re more common in NOLA. At least, I went to Charleston without anyone in our group suggesting one and in NOLA the whole group wanted to do one (I stayed behind). Nothing wrong with acknowledging terrible history (in the same way people visit concentration camps) but most of them are “oooh look at this pretty house” and that’s just gross.

      1. It is not “gross” to appreciate the architecture and art of historic plantation homes. I, for one, love looking at the gardens and seeing the fine china formally set on the table and marveling at the use of color and symmetry in design. Believe it or not, one can appreciate these elements without insisting on making a political statement. Everything doesn’t have to be a fight or an argument or an opportunity to voice personal politics or moral superiority. Just appreciate what there is to be appreciate, acknowledge the history including any downsides, and move along.

        1. Um good for you that you can just focus on the art and architecture? But she just said she experienced anti-Semitic harassment so I have a feeling she didnt give a rat’s a** about architecture and art in this particular moment…

          How could you read about her experience then whine about “personal politics or moral superiority”?

        2. Yeah it really sucks when you just want to look at china but people keep talking about slaves. So rude.

          2. Do you all know what “rude” means? I will tell you what it does not mean. To have a different perspective is not the same as to be rude.

            My enjoyment of the art (I.e. Fine China) does not detract from the history or even your ability to be outraged about said history. And my enjoyment is in no way rude to you.

        3. I feel frightened when I read comments like this, because if you — a seemingly well educated and thoughtful person can think like this — it is certain that so many others feel the same way. Imagine if you said the same thing about Auschwitz. Slaves were abused and killed and robbed of all autonomy on these plantations. Families were torn apart.

        4. I think the problem is that there are a lot of the tours that DON”T talk about the downside of the history, gloss over it, or misrepresent with the happy slave stereotype.

          That beauty you are admiring was largely made possible by the “gross”ness you don’t like.

        5. So, you’re a princess who would rather not acknowledge bad things because then you’d have to think about them, and it’s just so much easier and less distressing to think about stuff you can add to you Pinterest boards. Got it.

        6. Ew. Slavery is more than a “downside,” and on a plantation, I’d like to do a little more than “acknowledge” it. As a white person, we REALLY f**ked it up, and if you can’t recognize that above the “pretty china and symmetry,” then you’re awful.

          1. See above. To characterize me as “rude” and “awful” is uncalled for. You don’t even know my opinions about slavery. All I said was that I liked the art/architecture of Southern plantations.

            Have you considered the possibility that one can disapprove of the institution of slavery and yet still appreciate other elements from the time period when slavery was, at least by some, accepted?

          2. Yeah, no, you can’t. It was all built on the backs of slaves, full stop. To appreciate it is to appreciate the effects of slavery. Go read The New Jim Crow.

          3. I mean, I think it would be like going to the genocide sites in Rwanda and ignoring all the bones to comment on the stained-glass windows in the church. You can do it, but people will find the lack of empathy disturbing. It almost sounds like a question on a sociopathy test.

      2. For what it’s worth, there are two plantations outside NOLA that focus on the slave experience. The Laura Plantation discusses the lives of both the plantation owners and the slaves, probably 50/50 in terms of time, with an honest portrayal of the slave experience. The Whitney Plantation focuses solely on the slave experience in South Louisiana and is also set up as a memorial that pays homage to the slaves.

    6. Bryan Stevenson and his organization, Equal Justice Initiative, are doing really interesting work on our Country’s racial history and its impact on society today. From slavery to lynching to the death penalty. I am hoping to go to his museum once it opens (even though Alabama is far from where I live and I had never really planned on going there previously.)

      1. I’m reading his book, Just Mercy, right now and it is amazing what he and EJI do.

    7. Maybe it’s just me but no I’m not particularly bothered by the history and yes I do just want to look at the pretty homes. We all know the story. What’s dwelling on it or apologizing for it going to do in 2017? If you want to dwell – there’s a new AA museum in DC.

      1. Thank you for being a voice of dissent in what is otherwise an echo chamber here.

        I share your sentiment.

          1. All three of you are ridiculous right now. I would laugh if this weren’t so sad.

      2. Your statement comes off as quite privileged, you may want to re-examine that sentiment. Plantations were very places of abuse and suffering.

        “Why dwell or apologize, just get over it slavery! It happened like, a long time ago! Or if you want to remember go see that museum in DC, but I don’t want to be reminded of the less savory aspects of history when I’m seeing the pretty homes”.

        Well, you probably should be reminded of it, because those homes were built, and only could be built, because of slaves.

        1. Yes. I don’t know how this is so hard for us to wrap our heads around. Even my Where’s Waldo book as a kid had a page of the Pyramids being built and it was literal groups of slaves pulling these giant stones and visiting the pyramids is a lesson in the ‘achievements’ man can reach but at the cost of literal human lives with nothing other than the misfortune of being born Not-a-Pharaoh. Just admit that our ancestors did terrible things, even if they also at times did good things. Learning both of those (and understanding that perhaps the ‘good things’ could not have been achieved without such advantages) is what is key and what is missing. You plugging your ears because you want to look at pretty china patterns is downright childish and myopic.

      3. Not dwelling on it, but this is a little like asking Mrs. Lincoln what she thought of the play.

        It’s like when people say that the Civil War was fought over economics, not slavery. Sure, 100% economics. A big part of which was what, exactly? Right.

      4. It’s less dwelling more remembering and appreciating history accurately. You can go see pretty houses, but try not to be the person that only sees the antebellum south from the perspective of the landowners and rich plantationers, they were a very small subset compared to the millions of people enslaved against their will and left in poverty/subsistence.

        And, please note that your tone can come off as “get past it”, when it’s hard for some people who are still suffering from the negative impact of this history. If you wouldn’t tell a Jewish person to get over the holocaust, or a Native American person to get over being forced onto reservations with little resources for decades, you probably shouldn’t tell a person with enslaved ancestors and ancestors that survived (or didn’t) Jim Crow South not to “dwell” on it.

        1. Sadly I suspect that she probably would tell those groups to ‘get over it’ as well.

      5. Ugh. In my experience most people I’ve met with this viewpoint are actually woefully ignorant about many of the specific details about the history of slavery. It’s not just ‘owning people is bad’. There were many many horrific abuses committed against Africian Americians in that period that many people are not aware of. The horrific gynelogoical experiments that female slaves suffered and the cracking of the skulls of infants for medical experiments are just a couple examples. I’m sure the Nazis also had nice china but I would hope that you wouldn’t feel right about trapsing around a WW2 area labor camp to view it. And no, I’m not comparing plantations to Auschwitz ( though others might), that’s why I specified labor camp – if you don’t know the difference between a WW2 detention camp, labor camp, and concentration camp then I’d suggest learning.

        1. Yes, Hitler loved classical music and made it a mission to collect (read: steal) some of history’s most beautiful art (mostly from Jews). I am sure the china patterns were skillfully crafted and the HQ tastefully decorated, too. If you don’t see these as the same thing, that is a problem. And maybe you’ve never thought about it, and that’s OK, but if you are now being asked to think about it and still can’t see that they are the same, that is problematic.

          1. I agree with you Nutella but where I get stuck is what should we do with all of these properties?

            I don’t come from family money so I never understood the concept of reparations as a teen. Now that I’m an adult and work with people who have trust funds with money passed down from generation to generation, I see that some of that money may have come from owning slaves. There are people in 2017 still benefiting from it. That’s a whole different issue than what do we do with the properties?

            I certainly don’t think it is the fault of 2017 Johnny that his great grandpa had slaves and I also understand that great grandpa may not have known the error of his ways then when everyone around him was expected to do the same thing. But, should Johnny get to use the money that great grandpa passed down?

            Maybe we keep the properties as pretty places to visit and take the money those pretty places earn and give it to the descendants of the slaves that were kept there instead of keeping the money in non-profit “historical” societies.

          2. You do know you can’t just take someone’s money because you think you deserve it more or would use it better, right?

          3. Hey New Anon, that is one idea. The tours don’t have to stop, but the tours could change to the ones highlighted that take place in NOLA, where the focus doesn’t gloss over the atrocities committed, but rather teaches about the actual history. The money could go towards reparations, sure, or could also go to other worthy causes, such as improving the accurate historical context of the tours (maybe that involves hiring people with more specialized knowledge), or towards organizations that improve local race relations, etc.

          4. @ 12:37 – right. My question is let’s say your family owned one of those plantations. You have a beautiful piece of property now. What do you do with it? What is the ethical answer? Tearing it down seems wasteful and could also be seen as erasing history too.

          5. New Anon–

            I can only speak to the plantations I know about in South Louisiana. The plantations themselves were massive. Most of them have been sold off in parcels and, depending on their location, either developed into housing or sold as agricultural land.

            The remaining historic homes are sitting on relatively small parcels of land compared to the plantations. Most of them have changed hands many times since the Civil War. Some are owned by individuals, but that includes individuals who purchased them relatively recently to develop museums/tours. Some are owned by corporate foundations who purchased them for the same purpose. I know of one that is owned by an agricultural co-op, which leases the historic buildings to the historical society that operates the tours and works on restoration.

            Do you mind sharing why you put “historical” in quotes? And what do you think we should do with the properties? And what role should the government, rather than economic forces, play in what we do with them?

          6. SC – I put historical in quotes because the history that is told isn’t always accurate. As we discussed here, it can be white washed. The story of the happy slaves and all that. I don’t have the answers to your other questions – I was basically asking the same thing. I don’t know what should be done and what role government should play versus the individual. It’s complicated. Personally, I don’t want to see the buildings torn down either.

          7. FWIW, my family owned a large farm (not a plantation technically because the agricultural system was different, but basically the same thing?) and a number of slaves before the Civil War. We don’t own the property anymore, but what I’d like to do if I’m ever able to buy it again is develop it into a museum and research center that collects information that would help descendants of enslaved people trace their ancestry. A lot of that information is lost or hard to access, in part because it’s in the attics and other family records of descendants of slaveholders who may not even realize what they have.

            This came out of an experience I had when I met a person who was a descendant of someone my family had held in slavery. I had a lot of genealogical and historical information about his family that he’d never had access to; providing that to him felt essential to me. And then I realized that there were many more people in my shoes who might have the information and many people in his who might want it.

            Right now, the property isn’t for sale and when it last was, I couldn’t afford it, but if I’m every able to, that’s what I want to do.

      6. What’s so wrong about remembering the slaves where they actually lived, died, were r@ped, were beaten, were bought and sold like cattle? They were literally property. Things. NOT HUMAN. Why must one go to DC to ‘dwell’ on that? Going to a plantation and remarking on the beauty of the china (gag) perpetuates the myth that the slaves were ‘happy’ and ‘treated well.’ You are not treated well if you are enslaved and do not have autonomy over yourself. Plain and simple. You don’t remark on the stonemasonry at Auschwitz and you wouldn’t visit a home where a mass murder took place to remark on how lovely it was decorated! If you want to look at pretty homes, go visit Heart Castle, the Breakers, the Carnegie Mansion, the Frick Collection, the list goes on.

        Seriously, shame on you.

        1. Some slaves were treated well, for the record. Many had choices and were happy. It sounds like you need to brush up on your history if you think the norm was for slaves’ treatment to be like at German concentration camps.

          3. Some…but most did NOT have choices. That is the meaning of slavery. I think you need a refresher. They weren’t sent to death camps but that’s because slave owners wanted to keep their property alive. Just because someone is treated “well” doesn’t mean they are being treated like a human being.

          5. Haha, this is literally laughable. You don’t have a choice if you are literal property. As pointed out above, they weren’t exterminated because although they were second class, they were needed to be alive to do the work. They were assets; they were literal property. In the same way you wouldn’t burn your money. They were beaten, r@ped, tortured, and even killed because you could control your property. For example, it might be worthwhile to beat or torture one slave to make an example for others or to scare it enough into subservience. You might r@pe one because you feel like it or because you need to multiply your property. You might kill one because it is causing too much trouble or is sick or disabled and cannot work or procreate. Prohibiting marriage, literacy, freedom to choose your family and procreate, freedom to work and not work on your own choice, freedom to practice your religion, freedom to even speak, freedom to choose your name or the name of your child, freedom of ideas. They were denied the basic *inalienable* rights and choices as Americans and as humans. Because they were literally *not human* to them.

          6. Have you watched Handmaid’s Tale? Sure, some of the women are treated better than others in their “homes.” That doesn’t make them free. Also, look at it similar to a domestic violence situation. You could have woman who has never worked, has no access to the husband’s bank account, no car, no work history and is beat at home. If the husband opens the door and says go, you are free to leave – what can she do? Where can she walk? How will she eat? Where will she sleep? Some slaves may have “chosen” to stay because there were no other opportunities for them at that time and they were at least safe in that one particular house.

            I’m sure there are families that loved their slave the way today’s mom might love her au pair but that slave was not free the way today’s au pair is.

          7. Sure Jan. And all those native Americans decided to head west for fun. And Jewish people probably liked hanging out together at those camps.

            SMFH

          8. “Some slaves were treated well, for the record.”

            Let me guess. You, or a close member of your family,has a Dixie flag sticker on your car, or flies a Dixie flag at your house, and you have absolutely no clue why that’s a problem.

            Your ignorance is shameful, pathetic and sad. Please don’t come back to this website; we don’t need people like you here.

          9. GTentireFOH. Slaves were not, could not have been, “treated well.” You are clearly trolling. Bye.

          10. Ok, I know this was a day ago, and I’m just an internet stranger to you, but: no. Trust me, this is not true. Those happy slaves are fantasies of white Southerners who don’t want to face up to the atrocities committed by their (our, I’m a white Southerner too) ancestors.

            I have a Ph.D. in history from an Ivy League university, and teach the history of the trans-Atlantic slave trade at a major research institution. This isn’t my personal opinion – I do not know anyone who studies the history of slavery who would agree with your statement. And I know most of the people who study the history of slavery in the US, at least by reading their work.

            Were there gradations of horror in slavery? Sure, but just because other slaves had it even worse doesn’t mean that any of them were happy in their conditions. Slaves were people, despite the relentless efforts of their owners to dehumanize them – and as a result, many courageous slaves managed to carve out space for their own agency, making art and culture, forming communities, and living lives that were as full as possible under degrading conditions. We should celebrate that, but it’s not an excuse for slavery. Others were able to use the minute leverage that they could find within the slave system to their advantage in small ways. As with all human history, people sought to make their lives better, and sometimes succeeded. But there is zero evidence that any remotely significant number of slaves were happy to be enslaved. The mass exoduses that followed emancipation, and the astonishing degree of retaliation by former slaveowners that was deployed to maintain a cheap black labor force, is strong evidence of that.

            Go read the WPA slave narratives, or Ed Baptist’s recent book.

        2. At the same time, let’s not pretend the Carnegies and the Vanderbilts, etc acquired their wealth through upstanding and wonderful working conditions. No, it wasn’t slavery, but it wasn’t great, either. I’m of the school you acknowledge and discuss the past wrongs, but don’t refuse to visit entire places just because of their past history. Some of the Charleston plantations do a better job of talking about slavery than others. I wouldn’t write off the entire city.

      7. Whoa. You are “not particularly bothered by the history” of hundreds of thousands of people begin kept in chattel slavery, forced to do backbreaking work against their will, being subjected to whipping, torture, and s*xual assault, and being separated from all of their loved ones at the whim of their owners? Really?

        Beyond the moral obligation to own up to the horrors of our national past, it is a slap in the face to black Americans to value pretty houses over the horrors experienced by their ancestors.

        No one is asking you to apologize. We are asking you not to revel in the most shameful part of American history.

        1. I think her point is that the past is the past which we don’t have the power to change. There is no problem in viewing the world this way, perhaps for mental health reasons. It is. It like she is advocating to bring slabery back. Relax, and let her find the beauty and good amid complicated history.

          1. No one is suggesting the past can be changed if someone has mental health issues that result in a low stress threshold then don’t visit a plantation. Don’t whitewash history because you find thinking about what happened to be unpleasant.

          2. Thank you! Anon @12:34pm – the mental gymnastics going on to justify bigotry is astonishing

          3. We don’t have the power to change it, but there is danger in forgetting it. That’s the reason to “dwell” on the past – so we can avoid repeating it.

          4. I don’t mind finding beauty among a complicated history. However, when you are on hallowed ground, show some reverance for the atrocities committed there. Going to a plantation to see the “art” “architecture” and “pretty China” without the reverance is disturbing. But, as all those trolling Anon’s have demonstrated, they have no reverance for the dark side that plantations represent. Which is the problem. Privilege at its worst.

      8. Well this is super disheartening – perhaps because this is not YOUR history or struggles that you see have a direct effect on day to day lives of your people (this isnt even exclusive to slavery and AA struggles, so many other groups deal with a similar disrespect).

        No one is asking you to educate yourselves on the history just have some BASIC respect for history and the reality that a lot of what occurred years ago in this country has very painful effects on people today. Saying things like “If you want to dwell – there’s a new AA museum in DC” is just plain disrespectful and reminds me that we truly live in an individualistic country/society and have so much further to go…

      9. You’re not “particularly bothered” that human beings were treated as property, denied all freedom, abused and sometimes tortured and killed???? Good lord.

  7. To Kitty Question from yesterday,

    Age 8 is about the time that kitties start having urinary issues. One of the big problems is that they stop drinking water/need more water. My kitty loves the fancy feast broths (I add a tablespoon of water to add more liquid) as a wet food. If you don’t have one already, a kitty water fountain is a must. Cats love to drink moving water (it’s why they target toilet bowls).

  8. I have a lot on my plate right now – work, school part time, small side business – all of which i love but are all time consuming- and while things are ok now, the fall is going to be super hectic. I know a lot of you ladies are busy, how do you stay organized and manage your time? Do you put everything in google calendar, moleskine? Also this is a another broad question: how do you find time for your SO and/or friends? I’m admittedly not the best at setting boundaries but I’m finding myself saying ‘no’ a lot which has changed the dynamics (probably for the better) in some of my friendships…

    This is the most ambitious ive been in my life and I’ve always been a ‘wing it’ kind of a person but im realizing thats not really going to cut it anymore. Any tips are greatly appreciated

    1. I use a paper calendar that I carry with me absolutely everywhere. I need the solidness of paper – electronic doesn’t do it for me.

      For friends – when I’m in a busy period I will often send out an email noting that my schedule is particularly crazy right now but I value our friendship and want to spend time together. I note that I may turn down events a lot but please don’t stop asking because turning down events is not a sign that the friendship isn’t important to me. I also make an effort to suggest events myself.

    2. Page per day Moleskine + google calendar. I stopped trying to do anything more complicated than that bc I realized I was spending more time worrying about my systems than they were saving me.

      In the moleskine, depending on the day, I either make a single long list or sort it by project/area of responsibility or my what needs to be done – calls, emails, errands etc. My days vary so much that different days call for different sorting. I also use small post its to put reminders of things that are not actually day specific a week or two ahead of time – if that’s not a good day to deal with it I just move the post it.

    3. I use my iphone calendar. My work calendar is also synced so I can see everything at once. I also live and die by a to do list – when I’m at work, it’s on paper but if you want to have one consolidated list, maybe a list on your phone? I know the tasks list on outlook will sync with your reminders list if you want separate lists that you can easily access on your phone (provided you have an iphone).

      With respect to my friends, I actually find seeing them is invigorating when I’m busy and stressed out but not all of my friends. With my closest friends, we can do pretty much anything i.e. errands, walks around the neighborhood, a quick drink and it doesn’t have to be a big event.

    4. I LOVED having a paper calendar. Now I have 2 admin assistants so I need an online calendar and they fill it with stuff I have to do. Sigh.

    5. I just had a huge increase in responsibilities. Trello has been a life saver. I am not tech savvy but it took 30 seconds to learn. Also heard good things about Asana I’m sure there are other good options.

  9. Vicarious shopping challenge: This summer I have been enjoying wearing knit dresses almost every day in my very casual “business casual” office. I have several of the Old Navy sleeveless and short-sleeved swing dresses plus some t-shirt dresses from Wilt, Sundry, and Monrow. For fall, I’d like to wear 3/4-sleeve knit dresses with perforated booties. I have a couple of 3/4-sleeve swing dresses from Garnet Hill but am otherwise having a hard time finding much. Any suggestions?

  10. Gift advice –

    Looking for a gift for my father for his birthday. Hoping to spend in the $50 range.

    He is mid-60s. Recently got into exercising which is great and is doing a lot of bicycling and working out at the gym. He also loves the beach and has a house by the ocean that he spends a lot of time at in the summer.

    He’s not particularly into drinking/cooking/reading.

    Last present I got him was an Alexa which he loved but couldn’t figure out how to set up the associated smart plugs/bulbs.

    I live across the country from him.

    Thanks!

    2. I am a cyclist and there is no gift I appreciate more than gift cards to my favorite local bike shop. Like any sport, every cyclist will have personal preferences for gloves, shoes, socks, shorts, etc and he’ll have an idea of what the next new piece of equipment or kit he wants most is. I’d get him a card with specific instructions to use it to splurge on some new equipment.

      If you want to give him a specific item, get a basic bike computer if he doesn’t already have one. I use the Strava app to record my overall rides and altitude climbed, but when I’m in the saddle I want to see current speed, distance travelled, and a clock. This one from CatEye is priced right and tracks everything he’d want to see at-a-glance. http://bit.ly/2ulaKNl

      1. +1

        An across-the-country relative gave us a gift card to our local bike shop for a wedding gift, and my husband was beside himself! There’s always a new pair of gloves, or a jersey, or tail light, or something he is going to want.

    3. Echoing this – My husband is hard to buy for and my parents got him a fancy Patagonia workout shirt he would never buy himself. He still wears it years later.

    5. Some nice bike accessories? A really comfortable seat, or a set of lights, something along those lines?

  11. Getting my headshot tomorrow in black and white – do you still wear a little extra makeup? Any other tips for professional headshots?!

    Office is business casual if that matters!

      1. Yep. You can use Starbucks napkins, toilet seat covers, or even the back of your hand to reduce forehead glare.

    2. I’ve had headshots done at two firms, and at one of them they had a hair/makeup person to apply natural makeup/clean up hair. Maybe find out if there will be an expert on hand, first.

    3. Definitely still wear a little extra makeup. I think this site had a post of headshot tips generally that you might try searching for.

    4. Yes, my pictures came out so much better when I was wearing a lot more make-up than normal. It seemed over the top in person, but looked great on camera. If you are in a city with a dry bar or equivalent, it might also be worth splurging on getting your hair done. I love mine wavy, but got it smoothed out in advance and then curled so it would be more predictable. At dry bar they even have an option for $20 or so where they don’t wash your hair, but just curl/straighten it, which is all I needed.
      If you are deciding between a few outfits, try taking some selfies to see which look best on camera. Classic is definitely better. I also found it helpful to look at some company’s team pages to get a sense of what other women typically wear (and then got depressed because there are far fewer senior women in my industry).

    4. I know Big Law has its perks ($$$), but this is just sad. I worked in small firms for 6 years and have been a solo practitioner for five years now. I’ve conducted hundreds of depositions, won jury trials as solo counsel, and have argued every appeal I’ve ever briefed (about 60). It sounds like large law firms and corporate clients are sexist a-holes.

      1. Fwiw, in Big Law I had some terrific female mentors and worked with a lot of men (both at the firm and in-house) who cared about giving junior associates in general and female junior associates in particular, opportunities to take and defend depos and argue simple motions. There was sexism, but it was mostly in the form of unconscious bias and not blatant sexism.
        Then I went to small law and worked with many attorneys and clients who had rarely, if ever, worked with women before m and made very clear they didn’t give a sh*t about diversity or retention of women and minorities. Many male partners there wanted to relegate me to secretarial/paralegal tasks while giving men who were junior to me meaty litigation tasks. I heard numerous remarks about women and minorities that were straight out of Mad Men, and this was post-2010.
        I know the plural of anecdote is not data but in my experience Big Law was a million times less sexist than Small Law.

    5. It’s an interesting article and something worth talking about for sure. The point it seems to miss is that this is one symptom of a larger problem. The primary problem isn’t that women don’t get to speak when they should (although it’s certainly part of the issue). It’s that there aren’t enough senior women in practice.

      This business is built on relationships – the client wants their buddy to stand up for them, or if he can’t, they at least want someone with a P next to their name to do it. And originating attorneys can be VERY protective of their matters; if s/he is at all capable of arguing their client’s motion, they’re going to do it. That’s not really a gender issue, that’s just business.

      The problem is that it’s disproportionately men who make it in firm life. It’s mostly men who stay long enough to be trusted to stand up for a colleague’s client or who generate their own business, so it’s mostly men who are handling the arguments. Are women getting passed over for men of the same experience level because of gender inequality? I’m sure it happens. But ime most of this issue is created by the fact that women aren’t staying in practice at the same rates as their male colleagues. And the reasons for that are varied and complicated and definitely gender-driven.

      1. I don’t disagree necessarily but I do think that one of the reasons there aren’t enough women in senior positions in private practice is that women just don’t get the same opportunities. You’re definitely right about women not staying in practice for various reasons but I wonder if more would if given more opportunities at the outset. One phenomenon I’ve noticed with women specifically is that young female associates take furious notes throughout court appearances, even if there’s a stenographer present. Their junior male counterparts don’t, or not to the same degree. I don’t know what that is a sign or symbol of, but its a curious phenomenon.

  13. I am interviewing for a job! I will be interviewed by 4 or 5 people at one time for 90 minutes. All advice appreciated.

    Special consideration: I am a white woman with MBA. All 4 definite interviewers are African-American men with engineering degrees. The 5th interviewer is an African-American woman with degrees. I am comfortable with my outsider status in this context; is there anything to say/do or not to in this interviewing situation?

    2. Group interviews are hard because you need to make eye contact and speak to everyone. Usually I start by focusing on the person who asked the question, but make sure you don’t just speak to them- make eye contact and direct your words to everyone around the table. Like when you’re speaking to a small group.

      Try to relax and smile!

    3. Panel interviews are the worst. Hopefully this panel has interviewed together before and thus is in sink. There is always a tendency for 1-2 people to take the lead and then the interviewee just ends up talking to them and ignoring the rest. Try not to do that and try to keep them all involved in the convo – even if it’s just eye contacts with the people not speaking. And don’t ignore the 1 woman on the panel even if she isn’t talkative.

      1. I’m picturing a giant sink with 4 men and women in suits in it and it’s a pretty great image :)

    4. It’s strange that you call this “outsider” status. Why do you think it’s necessary to point it out and say that you’re comfortable with it? It’s perhaps relevant that your interviewers are engineers and you have a business background, but the fact that they’re not white is completely irrelevant and it’s awkward that you’ve even mentioned it. Just make sure you’re prepared for the interview in the same way you would for any other – I do find that panel interviews are more likely to ask behavior interview questions, so make sure you’re prepared for those. A lot of engineers I’ve worked with are very structured and process oriented, so you may want to keep that in mind for your answers, but that will totally depend on the individuals, the role, the organization, etc.

      2. +1 That the background of the interviewers is far less relevant than making sure you interview with the “engineering” interviewer in mind. I will say, as a person of color, that if you try to “relate” to the interviewers based on their background by saying something you think is related to that person’s culture or race, the interview turns from productive to awkward very quickly. They will remember you as the awkward white woman who tried too hard. Don’t be that woman.

      3. Use the STAR (Situation, Task, Action, Result) format to answer the behavior questions – that way you come across as concise and clear.

    5. Stupid question. It’s bad to say “I don’t see color” because race matters, hugely, and ignoring that is a form of privilege. I get that people are responding saying that the interviewers are professionals first, and in an interviewing context race should matter 0. But doesn’t it contradict the calls against “color blindness” to tell the OP not to notice or think about race here?

      I really hope I’m not being a jerk. Just trying to understand a nuance I’m clearly missing.

      1. ** Edited to add re: above — Oh, man, yes, obviously don’t try to relate to people based on your assumptions about race or culture in interview. Gahhh if that’s what we’re talking about of course no. But being aware of being white and trying to avoid microaggressions/ generalizations — isn’t that a desired behavior?

      2. Sure, people should be aware of any racial privilege and try to avoid microaggressions/generalizations all the time, not just in interviews. The problem here is assuming that the people interviewing OP, who she doesn’t know, will conform to stereotypes that she needs to accommodate or for which she needs to specially prepare. The more you think being from a specific racial or ethnic background impacts someone’s life as an engineer, doctor, whatever, the more likely you are to stick your foot in your mouth and say something stupid, even if you have good intentions.

    6. Thanks for all the advice! I definitely am NOT assuming that these 4 African-American men who are engineers are more alike than that – they are different ages, different ethnicities (based on names), different college alumni, different hobbies and different engineering specializations. Skin color is a pretty obvious differentiator, but I am definitely thinking of what we have alike and in common – I have an 8 year old son! These guys were 8 years old once, and they had parents, too (like me) – and focusing on that. Like Maya Angelou said, we are more alike than we are unalike.

      I think I just needed to note the difference in a mindful way, and move on from there, and I had to do it in an anonymous space on the internet. The difference is noted, and is not the be-all or end-all or really, anything in this context besides a difference, that exists. But yeah, those engineers…. hahaha.

      thanks!

  15. Stuck in moderation and trying again. Short version: Suggestions for 3/4-sleeve knit dresses, swing or t-shirt style, to wear in a casual office in the fall?

  16. Good morning all! I am trying to sell some work clothes that have served me well but just don’t quite work for my body/wardrobe right now. I have the following stuff available:

    — MMLF Emily dress, aubergine, 8, $75
    — J. Crew Factory lightweight wool suit in light gray, jacket/pants/skirt/dress all in size 8, plus a second skirt in size 6, $150
    — Same suit described above in black, all the same pieces, except the size 8 skirt has been tailored down in the waist by about two inches (I will measure for you if you’re interested)
    — Various: J. Crew and LOFT blouses; J. Crew and Ann Taylor trousers; a red tweed blazer from Piperlime; lots of J. Crew sweaters; some J. Crew and LOFT pencil and midi skirts; all S/M or size 6

    Email me at marshmallow r e t t e at mail beginning with G and I’ll send you a link to photos and we can work out price and shipping.

  17. A labor day weekend trip from Chicago; where would you go? We (husband and me) can drive or fly. Would prefer something relaxing or low-key, so our normal NYC trip I think won’t fit the bill. Any ideas? Ideally, we would be near water, but the biggest point is we just want to casually walk around a cute little area and have leisurely meals and sunshine. We had planned on Nantucket but waited too long and now can’t find accommodations! :(

      1. Ooh. Door County is amazing and a lot closer to Chicago. Is it cold there by Labor Day?

    3. Lake Geneva for something within close driving distance. If you have a little more time and like outdoorsy things, go to Pictured Rocks in Michigan. It’s gorgeous.

      However, its peak season and may be hard to find accommodations in a lot of the more touristy places.

    4. Both Door County and Mackinac Island would fit what you are looking for. But to be honest, you’ll probably find that both places are booked for that weekend already. Labor Day weekend is a popular time in those types of areas and you’ve probably left the planning too late.

    5. Starved Rock in Utica is beautiful. You could stay in Ottawa (about 15 mins away), which has cute shops, a brewery, and a few nice places to eat.

    6. For extremely close to home, you could spend the weekend at the Deer Path Inn in Lake Forest. We live nearby but spent a night there recently and it was lovely. A beautiful historic hotel, recently renovated. It’s English style, with several restaurants and one of the best brunches around, plus you can borrow their bicycles and bike to the beach, walk around Lake Forest, etc. I know it’s the suburbs, but it’s actually a very nice hotel in a cute area, with a beach and good food, so it seems to fit for you.

    7. Martha’s Vineyard? There are more inns/B&Bs on MV than on Nantucket, though they may all be booked up by now as well.

      Maine? I don’t know for certain, but it seems at least possible that there would be direct flights from ORD to Portland. There are plenty of cute towns in the Portland area, and some bigger hotels too (bigger compared to Nantucket or MV).

      Asheville, NC? There is a lovely hotel in Highlands, NC (about 1.5 hours from Asheville) called the Old Edwards Inn and Spa. It is very close to Lake Glenville. Not exactly the same as the ocean, but it is water. :)

      Kiawah Island, SC? You could spend a day in Charleston if you wanted as well.

      1. There are also non-stops ORD to Bangor Maine (on United) if you want to do Bar Harbor and Acadia National Park (you’d have to rent a car and drive ~1.5 hours but I think it would be a good three day weekend trip).

    8. I am late to the game, but you can walk across the Mackinac bridge on labor day! One day a year, and really a fun event!

    2. I have really mixed feelings about this. I disagree with a lot of what that guy wrote, and I absolutely agree that letting those views go unchallenged is wrong. But challenging and punishing are two different things.
      When I skimmed the memo, it didn’t read like a MRA manifesto rant to me, it read like someone putting his view out there to start a discussion. Someone needs to tell him that biology is real, but socialization and external societal/social pressure is arguably a greater factor in how men’s and women’s “innate” preferences or strengths are presented and perceived. Someone needs to explain to him that even if he says throws in some qualifiers, making blanket statements about women’s unsuitability for entire career fields and high-level positions is hurtful and harmful. As a few people pointed out yesterday, getting fired probably does not make him or anyone else receptive to those messages; it feeds the narrative that conservative views and white men (I don’t actually know if the guy is white, I just assumed that based on his criticizing lack of access to programs intended to increase diversity) are being discriminated against and fans the flames in the culture wars.

      All that said, I think Google’s communications about this have been excellent…but you know no one who wants to spin this story is going to buy that Code of Conduct argument.

      1. Per NPR this morning, a big reason why he needed to be let go was peer reviews factor very heavily on to whether or not people get promoted – almost like you get voted off the island, but it’s a good thing is how they made it sound. If you have someone who’s not management level, but giving every female horrible reviews because of gender…I’m not sure how someone would fix it besides firing. Free market = companies being able to enforce a code of conduct.

        The most frustrating part about this to me, is all of the conservative folks crying “free speech” while wanting the president to limit the press.

    3. i went to hs with this guy and were acquaintances. it’s so sad to see his mind turn out like this because we went to a stem focused school with great representation of women and one of our key tenants was that everyone is worthwhile and has potential.

  19. My best friend has struggled with depression and anxiety for the last few years. It’s been really hard for her but we thought she was doing at least a bit better. This past weekend she texted me some very scary thoughts – not about hurting herself, but paranoia about other people and just statements that were not totally in touch with reality. She called it a manic episode but I’ve never before seen her exhibit any symptoms of bipolar. Her family brought her to the hospital. She’s been there a few days right now. They don’t have many answers yet. I don’t know if this was a reaction to medication (she hasn’t had totally consistent psychiatric care as she moved) or just a setback in her condition. I just feel so lost and heartbroken. I haven’t been able to talk to her and it’s just making me so sad to think of her in the hospital by herself (besides visitors). In her last texts to me (before she went to the hospital) she talked about how scared she was and how painful the last few days had been.

    I miss my best friend and as someone who struggles with anxiety myself, I feel pretty off not knowing how long it will take (or if?) she will get back to her old self.

    1. I am sorry to hear about your friend, but being in the hospital is probably the best thing for her right now. They will hopefully be able to prescribe her medicine that will help her and provide her with resources that she can use to help her with coping strategies.

      I don’t know if this will help you because of course, each person’s experience is different, but I was involuntarily committed at one point as a result of being a danger to myself and I felt so incredibly safe there because it took away the elements of my life which were causing me anxiety. My entire day was planned for me, I knew exactly what I was going to eat, I knew who would be around me (for the most part), and I didn’t have to interact with the outside world. The absence of the scary things in the world that were outside of my control was incredibly calming. Obviously, your friend’s MMV, but I hope the hospitalization is helpful for her.

      1. Thank you so much, Anon.. That does help me feel better. I don’t know how she’s feeling but it’s nice to think she might actually be feeling better and more relaxed away from all her stressors.

      2. Inpatient psychiatric care is really stigmatized in our culture, but it is so valuable. Your friend is getting the care she needs right now, including round the clock monitoring, medication management to find the right medication plan for her, and individual, group, and family therapy. It’s intense, and it’s really, really a good thing. Be aware, though, that it may take some time. At my hospital, psychiatric admissions tend to be for longer stays, frequently 2-4 weeks.

        Call the hospital to find out if you will be able to visit once she’s settled into the program. You’ll both feel better if you can see her. She’s still your friend, and she’s doing everything possible to get better.

    2. I’m so sorry that your friend is going through this. It’s hard when you feel like there isn’t much you can do to help. My brother is on the bipolar spectrum and has been hospitalized in the past. Like Anon 4 this said, those stays helped him get back on track. Getting away from the stressors in his life and being forced to be on schedule with his meds and therapy really made a difference. It was a reset for him, you could say. Hopefully it will be for you friend, too.

      And as someone who has struggled with depression, keep being there for her like it sounds you have been. I didn’t always express my appreciation to my friends, but knowing there were there for me and ready to listen made a lot of difference.

    3. Think of it as a flare up as with any other chronic disease. Sometimes it requires more intervention than others. As someone with flare ups in my bipolar disorder, I agree with your friend that these states are truly painful. Your friend simply needs more care right now, try not to see it as some horrible outcome.

  20. Hi ladies! Would love to hear your thoughts about this.
    I just graduated with my masters in a niche field and was able to land a job in my field but with a salary of ~25k. I’m in a MCOL area and live frugally with a roommate in the cheapest apartment I could find. Here’s the thing- my dad still pays for my WiFi. My roommate and I have an agreement that because I have the larger, nicer room, I’m responsible for the WiFi bill. After hearing this agreement, my dad offered to cover it until I graduated, since he considered it to be a necessary school expense. I accepted his generosity. Because of the location and some cable company nonsense, this bill is pretty expensive. Although the initial agreement was for me to pick up the bill after graduating, it would break my fragile budget. He hasn’t asked me to start paying, and I haven’t brought it up. I feel horrible that I’m exhibiting every terrible stereotype of an entitled millennial because my Dad pays one of my bills, but I honestly can’t afford to pay the bill myself. I’ve asked my roommate if she wants to switch rooms and reverse the agreement, but she doesn’t (for obvious reasons). Thoughts? I’m prepared for the flames, but hoping that I’m self-aware enough to skirt some of the millennial bashing.

    1. Let him pay until he asks you to take over? He’s not paying ALL your bills – just 1. And expensive WiFi would be what – $50/month? $100/month? Assuming your dad is an established professional earning 6 figures by this time in his career, I’m thinking it doesn’t hurt it budget the way it would yours at 25k. -An old millennial.

    2. Your choices are to continue to let your dad pay for it or go without internet, yes? Do you need internet at home? I presume you have a cell phone that would suffice for web surfing while you are at home or streaming or whatever?

      I mean, if your dad is willing to pay for it, who cares? You know you should be paying for it because you are an adult, but it doesn’t fit in your budget. Either you tell your dad thanks for the generosity but our deal was that you no longer have to pay for it and you go without, or you let him keep paying.

      1. Using a phone to access the internet means using data, and unless the OP has a solid unlimited data plan, that might not be the best idea.

    3. Is it a one time expensive bill or is the monthly bill going to be this size every month? If it’s a one-time thing, I’d ask him if you can get a pass this once and then take it on. If it’s this size every month, can you cut it at all and then afford it? Or would he be willing to pay a portion until you get to a point where you can take it on?

      1. Adding to say, that yea, if he’s willing to take it on until it fits your budget better, let him. Take the help where you can.

    4. With the number of people on this forum and in life that got a leg up from parents paying for home down payments, paying for college, paying for trips home and vacations during school, paying for their first car, etc., I think you’re allowed to feel no guilt at all about a single wifi bill when you make $25,000 a year with a Masters degree. Plus, the wifi helps you stay connected with family so it actually benefits both you and your Dad.

    5. What? No, don’t feel bad about this! There’s nothing wrong with taking help if it’s offered, and this is a modest amount of help.

      I would, however, bring it up with your dad just to clear your conscience. It sounds to me like he knows it would break your budget and wants to keep paying. Just thank him instead of ignoring it! And congrats on finding a job in your field.

      1. This. It is the entitlement, not the accepting of generosity, that other generations object to. So just acknowledge that your agreement was for you to take over the bill, thank him for continuing beyond the term and note that you appreciate it, particularly since you still can’t afford to pay, and confirm he is willing to continue to give you this monthly support.

    6. Is there a reason you aren’t splitting the bill? I’ve never had a roommate situation where one roommate is solely responsible for one bill, particularly one like WiFi, which I’m assuming you both use. I’ve had roommates pay slightly more rent because they had larger rooms, but cable and utilities were (and are) always split evenly.

      As for having a parent pitch in, as long as you’re committed to getting to a place where you no longer depend on them, I don’t see the problem. I’m biased in that my parents were generous and helped me out quite a bit during law school. Even now, my parents pay my cell phone bill because they have a family plan, and it doesn’t make a significant difference to them whether I’m on their plan or not.

      1. Strike that. Apparently reading comprehension is hard on Tuesday mornings. I guess I’m curious as to why you chose to that particular arrangement as opposed to adjusting rent or something else.

        1. Cable company nonsense combined with naivete. Originally the bill was much lower, and we naively thought that would be simpler than adjusting the rent. Then the cable company hiked up the bill because of some service area changes, and my dad didn’t tell me it had increased so much. He figured that since he was happy to keep paying it at the higher rate, it didn’t really matter. (He did contact the cable company about the increase, but they wouldn’t budge) Now, I guess it exceeds what is a reasonable amount for having a larger room. I suppose I should ask my roommate to contribute the difference?

          1. Got it. Cable companies can be the absolute worst to deal with.

            I think it’s fair to ask your roommate to make some sort of contribution. At least sit down and talk to her about making adjustments to your arrangement, seeing as how it was initially based on a different price and neither of you were expecting this rate increase. I hope she’s receptive to making things fairer for you!

    7. Honestly, if you can’t afford the bill, you need to either cut the WiFi (or other expenses) or get a second job. I don’t think it’s the end of the world for your dad to pay your bill in the short term, but your salary is not sustainable. On a budget that fragile, are you saving anything? You are one financial crisis away from insolvency. Start waiting tables or some other side hustle a couple of nights a week until you get some savings (and until you can move up to the next job in your field).

      3. OMG, do you think she can just walk out her door and go get a better job just like that? How old are you? When did you graduate from college and have to enter the working world? Because this is what it’s like now. OP, take the help if your dad is comfortable offering it. This is what so many of your peers are doing too; there’s no need to feel guilty about it if both you and your dad are fine with it. And keep working hard, it really will get better and easier.

        1. Oh cool your jets. The OP referred to her “fragile budget.” Sure, she can take the help of her dad. I see no shame there. And it might take a year or three (or more) until she gets the next job. But if she’s living that thinly, what happens when there’s a car accident or a health scare or (god forbid) she wants to take a weekend trip?

          I don’t begrudge anyone taking help, but let’s call it what it is: she’s living beyond her means, and that has potential to be a bigger problem than just a wifi bill.

      4. She can’t just cut it if her rental agreement with her roommate requires her to pay for it.

    9. Don’t worry about it! I didn’t have any financial support from my parents after I graduated college, and although I would roll my eyes at people that had gorgeous apartments fully funded by their parents, I would still always say I was totally jealous and would have let mine pay for it if they could/wanted to! It’s their money and they’re entitled to spend it however they want – if that’s helping you, then that’s helping you. You seem grateful for support and I think that’s what matters most. You’re not expecting a handout, acting like a spoiled brat, or, presumably, bleeding your dad dry. Just focus on working your way up the ladder so you can pay the bill yourself and make sure to let him know how grateful you are for all his support.

    10. I am an old and I do not understand the obsession around here with not letting your parents do anything for you because you are an adult. My mom is retired and I am married with two incomes. Sometimes my mom picks up things for me at the grocery store and I do not give her money, gasp. Sometimes we go out for dinner and she pays the bill, of the horror. She is my *mother* and wants to do something for me – what is the big deal?

      OP, your Dad knows you are done school and has not asked you to take over the bill, because he is your parent and he knows you cannot afford it. I do not think this falls under the generalization of “entitled millennial” at all.

      1. +1 I’m married, with a child, and a good job and my mom pays my phone bill, partly because taking my number off the account would actually cause their bill to increase, and partly because my sister was still on their account and she is concerned with things being “fair” (even though I don’t care about this). She also buys me meals sometimes when we go out and occasionally gives me clothing she buys for herself and doesn’t like or doesn’t fit. I am supporting myself and could pay for all these things myself, but it makes her happy to do it, so I say thank you and move on.

      4. +1. A few years ago, we went through a tough time financially, after the market crash in 2008 (we were aggressively invested in tech and financial stocks and nearly got wiped out) and my husband subsequently getting laid off. My parents knew things weren’t good and offered us a couple thousand dollars just to help out until we got things on track. I refused, and my dad told me, “I didn’t work hard and save money to worry now about whether or not your electricity is on.” And now that I am a parent, I understand it. I hope my son will never go without a necessity because he’s too embarrassed to ask for help from me. If I have it to give, I’ll give it. OP, let your dad do this for you. If he has a problem with it, he’ll let you know.

      5. +1 My parents can help if I need them to, and if I’m with them, there is a zero percent chance they’re letting me pay, unless it’s for coffee. And even then, it’s 25/75% that I pay. They make twice what I do. And they want to pay. I let them.

    11. Don’t worry about this at all. My adult brother and I still mooch off my parents’ netflix account because we never bothered to get our own after college, and my mom still buys me stuff when we go shopping together. I offer to pay, but she says it’s fun for her to buy me things (and I know she can afford it). I figure I’ll do the same with my (adult) kids someday to “pay it forward.”

    12. You sound self-aware. Entitled millennial behavior is like, “My dad pays all my bills, including the mortgage on this fancy condo my parents bought me, while I try to get my career as a blogger going. I have no interest in looking for a regular job to pay my bills, and I don’t need to, since Mom & Dad will do it for me. In other news, my parents can’t afford to retire but IDK why not.”

      It’s hard and expensive to start an adult life. A lot of us (myself included) have had help from our parents.

    13. Let dad keep paying until he brings it up but start looking for a side hustle. Waiting tables at night, retail job on the weekend, tutoring, test proctoring, whatever.

      1. +1

        Accepting help does not make you weak or entitled. Sometimes parents want to help you and there’s nothing wrong with letting them. But also, if you’re living this close to the margin, you need to increase your income somehow.

    14. Do what makes you comfortable. If Dad wants to give this gift, accept it at face value, thank him, and discontinue when appropriate. But then again I’m closer to 40 than 30 and my dad still puts $100 in my account once a month and forces me to have one of his gas cards in case of emergency. I have decided I don’t mind.

    15. Not the question you asked, but also look in to other internet providers. Find out what they charge. Call current company to cancel. When they inevitably ask why you’re canceling, tell them about other provider’s rate (which, as an intro rate, is inevitably going to be lower). Repeat through chain of command until they agree to lower your rate. Or if they won’t, switch providers. If you’re in a decent-sized city, all the companies have terrible customer service and the actual internet service is usually about the same, so might as well use the competition. Repeat on a yearly or biyearly basis when the intro rate expires. Also, buy your own modem and router and it makes switching easier (and potentially cheaper, if your provider is still charging to lease the modem, although I think a lot have finally done away with this).

  21. Just an FYI, the JCrew Factory Dress (wool) with pockets… actually has no pockets. Was totally looking forward to an affordable wool sheath dress, but this one isn’t it. It’s not the usual cheaper tropical suiting wool, its a boiled wool reminiscent of my high school uniform. Promptly returned.

    1. What? I have it in two colors (selling above for unrelated reasons) and… it totally has pockets. They are sewn together when you first buy the dress, though.

  22. This Google thing makes me so tired. I’ve read a number of comments (yeah, yeah, I know) on various news outlets — even on my preferred “fake news” liberal ones, including the NYTimes — and so many people still just don’t get it. They think Google is “silencing” conservative viewpoints, and eliminating the opportunity for open discourse. But on what? The subject of whether women and racial minorities are biologically unsuited for tech jobs? Are they serious?

    Sadly, I know they are. I know that’s the world we’re living in right now. But it makes me so so so tired. I wish 2017 would go away.

    1. I am torn on this, which I am sure I will get flamed for. Is that guy wrong? Of course he is, but isn’t Google exactly proving one of his points by firing him? I mean they can fire him for whatever they want within the law, but why wouldn’t they use this opportunity to foster discussion within and try to educate the people who feel the same way? I know, I know, those people don’t want to learn, but don’t we push them to a greater extreme by taking away the discussion in the place they started it?

      He’s going to railing on Google and they are going to have to defend themselves saying his behavior was against the company policy when we all know they fired him because of the backlash about his opinions (wrong as they may be).

      I don’t know what the best solution is, but I am still not sure immediate termination was the right one. Men like this work everywhere. Does it help us in reinforcing our points to push them our of their jobs? I hardly think that is going to change their minds, but what do I know.

      Flame away.

      1. I mean, it is easy to fire him. And not so easy to fix what he said was happening. So they fire him and think they’re done? Nice, try, Google.

        1. I’m not sure what you’re relying on to say that Google thinks they’re “done” after firing the guy. I think firing him was a necessary first step.

      2. He is wrong. The facts he’s relying on are wrong: one of his points was that women are less-suited for tech because their focus is distracted by their parenting obligations; while completely ignoring that we have socialized men and women to put almost the entire burden of parenting on women. I think all of us here know that.

        But I get that isn’t your point – I think you’re saying that we should sit him down and explain to him why he’s wrong before just firing out of hand. But why is that our obligation? He’s a smart, educated person in 2017. He can figure this stuff out on his own. His employer shouldn’t be required to teach him how not to be a bigot.

        1. I know that’s not his employer’s responsibility and that you’re saying it’s his, but he clearly isn’t going to do it on his own? Do you really think that firing him is going to get him to do research and change his tune? I get that we need to be all about personal responsibility, but why isn’t it my job in some part, as a member of society, to try to educate people in order to make society better as a whole? Shouldn’t that be what we are working towards? A better society as a whole? I truly don’t think we can achieve that by pushing people off and telling them to get it together on their own. They clearly will not do that.

          Like I said, I don’t know what the solution is, but I am not convinced that this is it without any other action.

          1. I guess the question is how you work toward that without harming others. I think it’s pretty toxic to the work environment to take the position “we’re going to treat all viewpoints equally, including the viewpoint that entire classes of our employees are biologically unfit for their jobs.” And I’m not sure how you allow someone who holds those views to exercise authority within the company, even at a low level.

            I suppose an option would be to remove him from all positions where he has power over others within the company (all supervisory roles, all hiring, all employee committees, etc.), without actually firing him. I suspected that would be a fairly isolating and uncomfortable experience for him, but the alternative (allowing him to continue to exercise that type of authority knowing that he holds these prejudices against his fellow employees) also seems untenable.

          2. If Google fires him, they appear to ‘prove’ his ‘point’, at least to many of the people who might hold the same views. On the other hand, I don’t see any way to remove him from any and all positions of responsibility or management while still paying him the same amount with benefits – and we all know salaries are sticky downwards. The optics are bad one way. The work environment is toxic, the other way.

      3. What about those of us who have to work for him or his brethren? Get our performance reviews from him, have him sit on our hiring committee, have him decide how to allocate work between me and my male team members, have him give input on our 360 degree reviews and compensation?

        1. Right, like I said, I don’t know what the right solution is, but he’s going to get another job somewhere, somewhere that either embraces his opinion or doesn’t care (embrace by silence). Is that a good thing? No, it isn’t. He’s not going to change his mind if he is pushed into an area where his opinion is accepted and those employees will suffer too. He’s just going to be pushed around with his terrible opinions.

          1. I think I understand part of your discomfort. It’s easier to fight racism or sexism, e.g., if someone just says “I don’t think X people are as good as Y people.” That’s a debate that you can have and usually win. It’s much harder to address the subtler forms of discrimination that go unsaid – i.e., what is happening now with so many people. But I don’t know that google could have kept him on after this so I’m not sure what else they should have done. Make him attend implicit bias seminars? I think we can still have the “conversation” about this; the debate and issue is bigger than he is.

          2. Note that he specifically objected to implicit bias training in his screed (essentially because it prompted uncomfortable conversations)…

          3. Where is he going to get another job? His name is out as a person who uses work resources and his employer’s name to promote bigotry. So, he’s pretty toxic to just about any well-run company. He also told the NYT about his NLRB complaint, so right-leaning companies that might have been cool with his bigotry aren’t going to want him either. While he’ll probably land somewhere, it’s likely going to be at a place with much bigger problems than him.

          4. That he’ll next work somewhere awful doesn’t solve the fact that he’s a bigot, but I’d say good for Google for not tolerating the use of company resources to promote bigotry. Google isn’t an educational institution, it’s a company that needs to be able to hire and retain a diverse workforce.

      4. I read that his email was more polarizing than poorly received (plenty of respondents agreed with him). So whether he stays or goes, Google has an issue.

        1. Which gets us back to this being a problem in tech across the board, which no one should be surprised by.

          UGH

        2. (The sad thing is there is much, much worse out there. I’d be relieved to work with this guy over a lot of other men I’ve run into in STEM and elsewhere.)

    2. His viewpoints are not conservative– please don’t attribute racism and sexism to conservativism.

  23. Is anyone going to Diner en Blanc in DC? Registration for 3rd wave is tomorrow and I’m thinking of going.

    1. I’m attempting to register for the third wave tomorrow, but I’ve tried the last couple years and haven’t been able to get in.

  24. Sibling has always been an intense person. For the past several years, she has been obsessed with her ex (local to her and with whom she shares children). Police often come to her house b/c things get heated and combative with one child. She has engaged in some stalking behaviors and has spies at his workplace who call her about him. She is now in legal trouble b/c her stalking (watching from public places) has been noticed by her ex’s GF.

    I don’t know if something is mentally off with her (like maybe she is bipolar or something that could be helped with medicine) or if she has some sort of BPD or is just in the “hell hath no fury” department.

    I don’t live nearby. It’s partially none of my business. But I feel for her children (and also for her).

    It’s not to the point where she is a clear danger to self/others. And she seems to have found some sort of psychiatrist on the internet who (she says) has armchair diagnosed every single other person in her life as having major problems, so I am probably not going to have any luck getting her to seek additional help. She seems to be stuck spiraling and it is really awful to watch (recent visit).

    1. The police are being called because she fights with her kids? I hope child protective services are involved.

    2. Uhh, not to be too blunt–but this is way beyond “Hell hath no fury.” Your example highlights several pause points for a serious mental health issue. If there is a way to get her legitimate treatment/ therapy, it is in her and her family’s best interest.

    3. dear help, I am so sorry to hear about your sibling’s situation. sounds terrible for everyone involved, and understandably stressful for you too. I just wanted to say there that there may not be a whole lot you can do for the sibling, her kids, or the issues, but just want to encourage you to take good care of yourself. even if substances are not an issue, you may find al anon helpful for you. it is a program for people who have family members who are struggling. it has helped me immensely to deal with my brothers, who are mentally ill. i have had to learn to find ways i can support my family members, while detaching and protecting my own sanity. i wish you and your sibling and her family the very best.

  25. Trying not to make this into a big deal in real life (mostly because everyone in my office already has their CFA) but I just found out this morning that I passed CFA level 3. I am bursting!! This has been a very long struggle for me, off-and-on for NINE whole years. Mostly because of long work hours and travel, which has made it difficult for me to study.
    I always knew that I could do it! So excited that my hard work has finally paid off.
    And thanks to this awesome s*te – I love how this (mostly) supportive board has developed a culture where we’re comfortable enough to pat ourselves on the back when we deserve it :)

    2. CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Agreed with Anon above – it really is a beast^nth of an exam. Hope you are able to celebrate tonight in whatever way is special for you!!!

    8. Congratulations for your huge exam victory!

      Paging Shots, Shots, Shots for sure!!!

    9. Thanks everyone! Treated myself to a very rare glass of wine at lunch today. And picked up some nice bubbly for a celebration with DH this weekend :)

  26. This is a stretch– but does anyone have a suggestion of a hair salon in Orange County, CA, that either specializes in curly hair or has a stylist who really knows how to handle curly hair? Two years ago I stopped getting my hair cut because I was tired of people trying to cut it as if it’s straight (you have to handle curly hair differently) but I didn’t want to pay the prices of the one curly salon I know of in Laguna Beach. I have been cutting my own hair since then, and it has worked out just fine, but I feel it’s time to go to a professional for a bit of a reset, since I can only trim it and do a few layers, but I can’t really do an overall shaping or style. Anyone know of a curly salon with more reasonable prices?

    1. Or for anyone not in Southern California, how do you go about finding a stylist who actually understands curly hair? Short of a true devacurl salon, I am having trouble telling from their websites/Yelp pages whether a salon has anyone specifically experienced with curls. The pictures on Yelp, even from salons that say they handle all hair types, are 99% of women with silky straight hair that has obviously been curled with an iron.

      1. Devacurl has a site where you can find all of the people they have trained to do deva cuts. I find that a good place to start, and then ask some basic questions before booking an appointment (e.g., will u cut my hair before or after washing it? What is your approach to curly hair?)

    2. I literally call salons and ask whether any of their stylists have curly hair. Then I book with her. It’s awkward and weird, but it’s never failed me.

    3. If you’re willing to drive to Pasadena there’s a stylist in my salon with wild fabulous curly hair who would probably love to get her hands on you!

    4. I will not go to a salon unless the person cutting my hair has truly curly hair. If you live in an area with a large ethnic population, it might be worthwhile to find a local salon in one of those areas. I have thick, frizzy, jewish curly hair, and I will only trust it to someone who understands shaping/length and does NOT try to dry it stick straight and then cut it.

    5. Go to naturally curly (one word) dot com, salon finder, and then you’ll be able to read reviews from curly haired gals about various salons in your area. That’s how I found my DC stylist and she is awesome (Jackie Pfeiffer at Symmetry, in case anyone is in DC looking for a great curly stylist!).

    6. My stylist in Mission Viejo also cut my curly-haired daughter’s hair, and did a great job. Maya at Secrets Salon. Maybe give her a call? It’s not a fancy salon, but affordable. (She does an amazing job with color, too.)

  27. Probably too specific but can anyone recommend a psychiatrist in the Chicago north suburbs? far north side of city would also be ok. this is for a 20 year old. Thanks.

  28. Any advice from Dallas ‘ettes about relocating to the city?

    Specifically, any advice about telling BigLaw firm that you want to switch offices to a city where you have slim connections, but will have bigger connections in the near future (SO in business school, Texas is ultimate destination…thank you oil & gas). Debating a move in the next year, and trying to start planning for big life changes, including taking the bar again (BARF).

    2. I used to live in Dallas and found that, compared to Houston and Oklahoma, Dallas has pretty limited opportunities in o&g. I’m in OKC now. Make sure to do some research for your particular circumstances so there aren’t any surprises!

      1. I’m in OKC, too! Had no idea other ‘Rettes were from Oklahoma.

        But, they’re right. Right now the scoop/stack are the hottest areas and that’s in rural OK, I believe

      2. Just wanted to say hello fellow person in my state! I had not idea anyone in OK read this site : )

    3. I wouldn’t say anything to a firm until SO knows where he’s headed. Is he positive he’ll be in Dallas? As opposed to Houston or OKC or ND/Denver (though both of those markets have cooled a lot)? Know your own firm but at my firm this was seen as a HUGE ask – for an associate to move offices (it wasn’t really but they held that “favor” over your forever). So I wouldn’t ask until I was 100% sure that Dallas was it.

    4. Are you in OG, or your SO? If not you, what is your practice area. I’m in Dallas. I have lots of thoughts on the City, places to live, etc, depending on your interests.

    5. Oil & Gas here – is your SO committed to Dallas? Only asking because you mention B school. Most of the large O&G names are in Houston as are pretty much all the IBD / professional services firms.

      I think saying “I want to work with O&G / power / energy clients” sort of accomplishes the Texas move part since pretty much all that business is run out of TX. It is a really interesting space – I’ve worked with everything from renewable power through upstream and have really enjoyed it. Happy to help further if I can!

    6. Just a note on the TX bar. I was able to waive in w/o exam after five years of practice in my home state. Check into that; you may not have to take the TX bar at all. :-)

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