Weekend Open Thread
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Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
If you were bummed that some things you liked sold out of the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale before you got there, do check back — many things are back in stock, albeit in lucky sizes and colors.
(Another option: if you had a wishlist, keep an eye on the email you used for your wishlist — they do email you when it's back in stock, even if it's just one lucky return.)
One of the things I was excited to try were these “luxe wide leg pants” from Zella — having just bought the Spanx Air pants, I've been wondering if these are a much more affordable option. Last I looked, though, they were totally sold out.
The good news is: they're back in stock! (The slightly bad news is, they're still sold out in the black.) I like the fact that these have pockets, and the fact that they're only $55.
Reviews are a bit mixed, but the people who liked them REALLY liked them — “insanely comfortable,” “so, so good,” “wow,” “look like dress slacks but are comfy sweats,” and “I'm pleasantly shocked at the quality, these honestly could pass for trousers.” NICE.
I just ordered a pair in my size — I'll report back. Some reviewers did note that the pants run large, so if you're close to your smaller size and that's the one in stock, it may be your lucky size.
Sales of note for 3/21/25:
- Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off: Free People, AllSaints, AG, and more
- Ann Taylor – 25% off suiting + 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
- Eloquii – $39+ dresses & jumpsuits + up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – 25% off select linen & cashmere + up to 50% off select styles + extra 40% off sale
- J.Crew Factory – Friends & Family Sale: Extra 15% off your purchase + extra 50% off clearance + 50-60% off spring faves
- M.M.LaFleur – Flash Sale: Get the Ultimate Jardigan for $198 on sale; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy 1 get 1 50% off everything, includes markdowns
Anyone else watching the Opening Ceremonies? The boat parade on the Seine is so cool!
Yes!! I love the summer Olympics so much!
No and this is an aside, but I applaud Paris for attempting to clean up the Seine so people can swim in it. It sounds like it’s not a done deal yet, but I think it’s amazing when cities ensure their major rivers can be used for recreation. Being able to swim (which is different/more exciting than something like a walk) can be huge for urban dwellers.
None of the river clean up efforts are long term, they’re just for the Olympics only.
Agreed – It has changed the energy of Copenhagen so much to have alle of those bathing areas in the inner harbour.
We have a lot of new shark netted areas in Sydney Harbour too- they are very popular !
I’m watching tonight and am VERY EXCITED about the boat parade!
Also, Simone Biles was killing it in podium training yesterday, and I cannot wait to see what she does in competition.
Yep I’m going to get up at 6 am on Sunday to watch the team quals!
Yes! It’s such a cool and unique concept for an opening ceremony, and it’s being executed so well despite the less-than-ideal weather conditions.
What’s the current advice on asking about salary range for a senior in-house legal position with the company’s own recruiter? I’ve mostly dealt with external recruiters (where it’s totally fine to ask about range), but have a phone interview with a company where I think the pay may not be enough. Do I ask about it in the initial screening with the recruiter or wait till a follow-on interview?
Fine to ask. IME it’s one of the few questions the first line recruiter can actually answer.
Definitely ask about it. I’d also ask for the total comp range rather than salary range since some companies put a lot into their base salaries but not much in bonus (and vice versa)
Fine to ask, and the breakdown of the number in salary vs. bonus vs. other.
let’s talk about house tasks that are never done — laundry, mail, dishes, cooking. i just cannot. i can do semi-regular tasks like bills and infrequent tasks like big cleanouts but the daily stuff i have mental stumbling blocks around. any tips or tricks or mindshifts for doing that stuff? outsourcing?
We don’t really outsource any of that stuff and I think we outsource quite a bit (we have biwkeely cleaners and mowing and biannual landscapers). I think routines help. We do dishes basically every night we’re home. We do laundry on Sundays. Cooking is the one DH and I struggle with the most and we get more freezer food and takeout than we probably should.
Biweekly as in every other week? Or like Monday and Thursday each week?
I think I may go from monthly to add each month do a deep cleaning one area (with kitchen every other time — it is the worst but gets a lot of use).
Every other week. I would love weekly (our house gets pretty gross by day 10 or so) but my husband isn’t on board.
wait, what do you biannual landscapers do? so fascinated
Trimming things and applying mulch
Can you think of them like brushing your teeth, instead of like a report you need to finish? You’re never done brushing your teeth, but I’d bet that that fact doesn’t bother you.
For example, we do a load of laundry each morning and I fold and put it away each night. Husband does dishes every night and we run dishwasher nightly. Mail gets handled right when we pick it up.
ohhh i like this idea a lot. i am much better about regular things.
a. What’s your best guess about what your mental stumbling blocks are? (ADHD? never learned how? Hate the tasks? Too tired?).
b. What have you tried in order to overcome those stumbling blocks?
c. Are there any times in your life where you’ve developed a daily habit and stuck with it? If so, can you transfer anything you were doing then to these household tasks?
for a – all of the above. husband also does a lot of these tasks but then if eel like i’m not contributing as much. and maybe it’s just that i haven’t learned to do the tasks together with him (we just celebrated anniversary #20.) he “finds it comforting” to stand at the sink and scrub dishes that i would just stick in the dishwasher. he “just decided to do a load but didn’t have enough for one so he grabbed stuff from all three of the dirty laundries” (2 kids). but then he gets distracted halfway through and won’t put things away. whereas when i was single i did laundry like once a month and then put everything away that day. there are also a lot of tasks that we’ve talked about how i don’t like very specific aspects, like doing a little bit of 4 people’s laundry willy nilly. he leaves a lot of dishes piled in the sink in soapy water, and i get yicked out having to touch dirty dishwater — left to my own devices i try to keep the sink clear of dishes and instead stack the dishes around the sink until i can put them in the dishwasher, and if something needs soaking i do by filling that individual container. i’ve tried talking about them with him but he hasn’t/won’t change so then i just kind of leave everything to him. i don’t think he minds so much but my in-laws and parents both act like i’m a pariah for not helping because he visibly is doing a lot of the work. (i do do a lot of the invisible work in the house/with the family, i swear.)
b – i’ve read a lot of books on productivity but mostly get that adhd brain where i know exactly what i need to do but then decide to do something else stupid instead.
talking about it makes me realize that maybe my problem is more a communication thing with my husband. or maybe just a clear allocation of “if you do this then i won’t help”? gosh that sounds b!tchy. maybe i can try the schedule idea with him. been home alone this week and it’s all just such a state of clutter and mess i’ve been overwhelmed.
we have biweekly cleaners but they skip dusting because (lol again) my husband would just randomly stick stuff wherever he could to get it off the surface. i’ve melted so many things because he stuck them in the oven to get them out of the way of the cleaners, and i forgot to check when preheating.
huh.
DH and I split up chores by who is less icked out by them. I do laundry, he does the dishes, etc.
Splitting by preference/aptitude also works pretty well for us. I love cooking, DH hates it. I am good at keeping an eye on groceries, keeping the list and deciding when we need to shop. He’s better at recognizing that the garden needs water. DH is happy doing laundry but can’t stand cleaning toilets.
Re: dishes. In our house, there’s no such thing as dishes on the counter or in the sink. They go in the dishwasher or they get washed. Always. It makes it way easier than letting them build up and have to think about when to do them later. If a pot needs soaking, it gets soaked while I’m still finishing the cooking or while we’re eating and then washed immediately after. Regular dishes don’t need soaking, they just go in the dishwasher.
What you describe here, is the kind of situations the book “How to keep house while drowning covers”. Highly recommend, very short read. The author has adhd, IIRC.
I think this is more a division of labor question then than a tasks question.
1) I think the Fair Play concept of fully owning your tasks would be really helpful to you both. If you don’t like the way your husband does dishes or laundry just divide it so one of you fully owns it rather than both do a little bit, and then you can just ignore it!
2) other people’s opinions on your division of labor is irrelevant as long as you and your husband are happy with the division. My husband is a much cleaner person than I am so he does a lot of our day to day cleaning. I do a lot more of the household management and childcare.
I deal with mail by putting everything on electronic billing and autopay so almost nothing important ever comes and I don’t have to think about paying my bills. I get the USPS daily emails so I know to look if there’s actually something important coming, pretty much everything else goes straight into the recycling bin, no thinking involved.
I WFH and do laundry on a schedule (Monday for sheets and towels, alternate Fridays for everything else) so I don’t really think about that either. Cooking takes more effort, but I like to cook, so I don’t mind thinking about that (I read cookbooks in my spare time).
I am a mess and highly recommended Domestic Blisters book. Run the dishwasher every night no matter what. Everyone does their own laundry and my son did as well by middle school. I do hang up clothes that I only wore a few hours. I WFH and attack mail once a week. Meals are terrible for me. I prefer to keep pasta and alfredo sauce on hand so I can throw in some frozen chicken strips or shrimp and frozen veggies together. And make sure you delegate and don’t be upset when your partner and kids don’t do it the way you do it.
Yes to hanging clothes. Having a place for clothes that have been worn but don’t need to be washed yet is one of the best things I’ve done to make our space feel organized without requiring me to do excessive amounts of laundry. I have a few hooks in my closet for things that need to air a little, plus one of those Ikea things with sliding wire bins. The top one is just for sweatshirts, shorts, pjs, and other clothes that I wear around the house but don’t really get dirty, so they just stay until laundry day or they seem dirty. I also have a small bin on the floor of my closet for bras (I usually have 4-6 and do laundry every two weeks).
There are some people who manage these types of tasks well and there are other that do not. My dad is in the first category, a man of habit and consistency. Me and my husband are not. We have accepted it (after years of trying to be more like the former) and have found ways to manage. For laundry, it helped when we reduced our entire family’s volume of clothes. We just have less stuff. And nothing needs ironing (if it needs ironing, it ain’t happening). Mail- open immediately, 1 basket for pending/to file, one filing cabinet. Anything outgoing goes out immediately. Dishes- DH does. Cooking- I plan and cook. I keep things simple, nothing elaborate. If I find a great recipe, I save it in Pinterest and then it goes on rotation in the menu. I don’t overplan, I get groceries 1x a week and then cook daily.
For cooking, I make a meal plan for the week and buy groceries accordingly for those meals.
Dishes get done in the evening after dinner. They either get hand washed or put in the dishwasher. I also wipe down the counters.
So with the caveat that I’m married, of your list, I do the mail, he does the dishes, we do our own laundry and split up cooking – we aim to cook at home 2 weeknights, we each usually have a separate work/social event once a week where dinner is involved so each of us handles ourselves there (if I’m home, I’m partial to cereal or a scrambled egg), take out once a week and we do social stuff on weekends and cook a leisurely dinner together on Sundays, which is more of an activity. When I was single the only material difference was dishes, but I just tried to limit my mess.
Fly lady helped me.
You need a simple routine for each category:
Dishes get done after dinner, and dishwasher runs at night. Unload in the morning so the t can be loaded through the day.
I do laundry every night, just 1-2 loads. So kids 2x per week, parent darks, parent lights, kitchen stuff, linens, etc.
spouse meal plans and cooks incl 2+ nights of leftovers. We do takeout one specific day of the week.
Good luck!!
Not that I want to come do your laundry, but I wish we could swap motivation. I have no problem keeping up with the daily tasks. The big cleanouts, though? I hate doing those and this is the reason I have a pile of stuff to take to Goodwill and it has been sitting there since before the pandemic.
If you google something like “free donation pickup” I guarantee you will find somebody who will come to your house and take that stuff off your hands. That is my new secret weapon — I have them come every couple months.
Ha, I was thinking the same – except for me a big clean out is fine, regular physical tasks like dishes and laundry are fine, but irregular, life admin that requires a computer (scheduling doctors! taxes! cancelling that subscription!) are the worst worst worst. I’ll swap you some motivation?
It’s just part of life, like using uppercase letters.
Hi I struggle too with daily dishes, daily tidying etc. Im trying to build better routines to manage these things. it doesnt come naturally to me.
I just read through how to Keep House While Drowning. A couple handy tips and a lot of permission to do whats functional for you, not what you think or been told you should do.
Im working on stacking a couple new routines right now. Every morning I make coffee as soon as Im out of bed. New routine is to get the coffee going and then do dishes until the coffee is done.
I dont force myself to do all the dishes and its five minutes or less that I otherwise spend on my phone ( no dishwasher so…). A lot of people do dishes in the evening but my motivation and energy tanks after 7pm so shifting that daily task to the morning has been more successful.
Other routine Im working on is to wipe down or clean atleast 1 of the larger bathroom surfaces while the shower warms up. I shower at night and the water takes a couple minutes warm up. Turn on shower, pull out a cleaning wipe or scrub the toilet, done. Before Id procrastinate cleaning the bathroom and then do it all at once in a big deep clean. Now Im cycling through all the surfaces a couple times a week with low effort
Think about what youre already doing every day (coffee, brushing teeth etc) thats ingrained in your routine, and if theres a task you could do before or after that. Use that daily activity as the trigger for the next activity so you build a “stack” of routines that run on autopilot one after the other.
very short (like 5 minutes or less) dead times during your day that can be filled with an alterntive activity too. Maybe you work from home and it takes 2 minutes to get your computer on and logged in every morning (between turning on, logging in and waiting for vpn to connect, and then outlook to update my inboxes, its atleast 2 to 5 minutes). Open, sort or shred mail during that time, sort or fold laundry next to your desk, dust something.
For those of you who continued your education beyond a BA/BS, did your parents pay for or support you in your graduate or professional program?
My daughter is just finishing a 1.5 year masters program. She was undergrad during COVID, so she had to move home for a while and take remote classes, which saved paying for a dorm for a year. That meant she had some money left over in her 529 for grad school, but not the whole thing. She had to take loans for approximately half. Fortunately she has been able to live at home and commute to the university for this one, and so we supported her – basically the roof over her head, her food, and car related things – during this period.
My work friend has been asking me a lot about it. His kid is about to finish their undergrad (senior now) and plans to go to law school. Kid is insistent that parents typically pay for law school tuition, room, and board. This would delay my work friend’s retirement & his wife is siding with kid. (She’s a SAHM so I guess it doesn’t delay HER retirement.)
I thought I’d just ask what is typical.
Typical for parents to pay for law school? Not in my circles…. except for my very wealthy friends. There is so much generational wealth now, and a lot of grandparents picking up these tabs. But none of my friends from normal families covered medical or law school, unless the child had a full ride to college (and they were very financially well off). So…. two doctor couples, paid for their daughters to go to med school, but their college costs were negligible.
“Kid insists.”
It doesn’t actually matter what is typical. It matters what the parents want to do and can afford.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but an aspiring lawyer ought to know that insisting is not the same thing as obtaining.
Yes, but the question is what is typical. I thought loans for this were typical.
Yeah, kid is dead wrong. Most people take out loans for professional school.
As I parent, I think it is foolish to delay retirement to put a child through law school.
I agree, and I also think that it’s foolish to do it for an entitled kid.
Also older people are one layoff from never finding full time employment again. Despite age being a protected class, I know lots of older workers who never found an equivalent role after a layoff. I really don’t think you can bank on working to an exact age, not even considering health surprises.
Hi, it’s me.
So much this. I was let go at age 47 and took a much lower paying job just to get health insurance. Took two years to find something equivalent again. I’m doing really well now but we’re owned by private equity. Job seeking now is so, so, so much harder than in your 30s.
One of my friends needed to replace her direct report and even had her HR ask her if she wanted to filter out a certain graduation date and anything earlier. Illegal? Yes. But who is ever going to call them on that? And that’s blatant ageism. There are so many more subtle things at play.
And if you are more senior in your career, the reality is that there just aren’t as many openings.
Everyone is different, but my parents did not provide any financial support of any kind for my master’s degree.
Most of my friends who went straight to law school from undergrad (and myself) paid with a combo of loans, scholarship and parent’s help; I don’t think I knew anyone who didn’t take out some loans. For my friends that worked for a few years before law school, they mostly didn’t get any parent help – just scholarships and loans.
IME it is not usual for parents to pay for graduate degrees, but I don’t know any truly wealthy people. I do have a relative who delayed her retirement by a few years to pay for one child’s graduate degree but there were special circumstances and I’m not entirely convinced that was the only reason she waited to retire.
I have a law degree that might just be the worst investment my husband and I ever made, even with a scholarship, so there is no way I would ever pay for a child to attend law school. If I had the means I’d probably provide some assistance with living expenses for a child who was pursuing a fully funded PhD at a top program, which is the only kind of PhD that is a good investment of time and forgone income in today’s job market. Would not fund a master’s degree because most of those are a waste of money, except maybe in engineering. Would not fund a medical degree because the kid could pay back those loans themself.
I mean I guess it depends on what your circle is, no?
In my circle growing up in the 90s and 2000s, no it wasn’t typical. It was a very middle class circle – immigrant families but immigrants who came here for white collar jobs. So yes they made money but they didn’t make SO much money that they could pay 50-60k per year for 7 years per kid if they had two kids who went ivy undergrad ivy law. It’s one of those immigrant cultures where back then, ivys and going to the best school possible was VERY important. So parents paid for a lot or most of undergrad and then gave the kid maybe 10-20k per year for law school and rest was loans.
In my circle now, yes it is or will be typical. Mostly two lawyer couples. If one person is in biglaw then yeah it’s definitely expected that grad school is paid for. If both are in house or government or something similar, yeah they still pay though yes I can see how it may delay paying off their house or retiring. And as someone notes above, lots of grandparent money too. Some people in my current circle had lawyer or dr parents who are very comfortably retired so paying for their grandchild’s law school or even half of it is NBD. Even amongst my own immigrant family, the parents could not pay 70k per year but sure they’d still kick in 10-20k per year.
But at the end of the day what does it matter what the kid insists on? What can this couple do and what do they want to do?
Seems like this kid and his parents should have worked out who was paying for law school about a year ago, before he committed.
Sounds like he’s not committed yet, but us entering his senior year of college
I’m 45 years old and finished law school in 2006. My parents paid for law school (private with some scholarship) and I lived at home. They also paid for sibling’s law school but not living expenses because sibling was married and the spouse worked. At that time, I’d say about 10% of people in my class had any parental financial support, and most people had significant loans. I remain incredibly grateful that my parents paid for my entire education, and I consider their gift to be absolutely enormous to this day. We are planning to attempt to do the same with our only child, but we earn far less than my parents did, so I do not know if that will be possible. I do not think that parents should ever ever ever short-change their financial futures to pay for graduate school, and I don’t think any financial planner would recommend doing so.
It was probably a lot more than 10%. My parents paid for everything but there’s nothing less cool than being a rich kid so I pretended to have loans like everyone else.
It’s not really short-changing their financial future if parent decides to work another three years to pay for it. Not that I think it’s a great idea, and it’s certainly not what I would do.
Mine did not, and I agree with that decision. Whether you contribute or not to college is really a financial and parental decision, but once your child is an adult, they can pay for any additional education they want to get (or can find scholarships). Grad school can often be delayed 1-5 years to allow time to build up capital to defray its costs, and frankly, many law schools (and legal employers) value candidates that are not “straight throughs.”
I would feel differently if the school in question was something with an incredibly long training program and a lot of societal value, like med school for neurosurgery. But law school? It’s only three years. Kid can go when he’s 24, and can pay his own way.
(By “pay his own way,” that includes taking out loans in his own name, to be clear — I am not naive about how expensive law school is).
my parents did pay for my law school (and then my wedding too, i’d worried it was either/or) — but i think they were only able to do it because my grandfather left money to my father when he passed.
That is 100% not normal (parents totally funding law or grad school). Only my wealthiest classmates were going gratis thanks to parents. (Ivy.)
The only exceptions to that have been when parents saved money because of a kid’s achievements or choice. Like my cousin graduated a semester early from undergrad, so her parents paid for a semester of her grad school, or they’d saved for college but kid got a big merit scholarship.
Yuck. Parents aren’t obligated to pay for grad school. Unless your coworker previously told her son that they’ll fund law school he has no right to be angry about this. He made a big assumption when picking his major, and now he either has to pay for it himself or pick a new career path. Even among the upper middle class families I know, grad school isn’t a given. FWIW my well-off parents were planning to pay for med school until I decided on another career path. A few years after college graduation I looked into MBA programs. At that point my parents were willing to loan me the money but wouldn’t outright pay for it. They had already made their retirement plans and didn’t want to change them. I didn’t complain because it’s their money to spend how they please
My parents paid ~$300k for my fancy private undergrad, no financial aid, which they’d saved for since I was an infant. They told me they wouldn’t give me any money for law school. They ended up getting much richer during my law school years and gave me about $10-15k total and an old car. I funded the rest through a big merit scholarship, ~$30k of loans, summer jobs and part-time school year jobs.
A) It absolutely not typical to pay for your child’s law school tuition, let alone tuition + living expenses. Among my friends from well to do families, parents did seem to pay for all or partial living expenses (but NOT tuition) for law or med school. But also, plenty of friends had no financial suppprt from parents during grad school.
B) I did my MS part time, over 3.5 years, while working full time. I happened to live with my parents for ~ 6 weeks of that time so I didn’t pay rent, groceries, or utilities during that time. The other I don’t know, 40 ? Months that I was in grad school I paid my tuition + all living expenses + all other expenses. I lived about 40 mins from my parents so they occasionally took me out to dinner, but that’s it. Not even a “I know things are tight so here’s $20 for groceries”.
First of all, going to law school right now is not a good investment of time or money so I wouldn’t pay and I would advise against loans. I worked three years and then took out loans for law school. My son had prepaid and scholarship money for undergrad and dorms. For grad school, he worked the whole time, took out loans, and we supplemented his income as needed because we can afford to pay a big dental bill or to help with car insurance. Perhaps SAHM should get a job if its so important to her!!!!
I wonder what that kid’s reaction supporting the parents in old age would be.
Yes…. the OP should bring this up in future discussions.
OP…. does your son typically act this entitled? I can’t imagine saying this to my parent. When I applied to my professional school, I wouldn’t have even dared to ask my parents for help. All scholarship or on my own dime. That was the norm. People lucky enough to have family help did not usually reveal this, although of course you could guess.
This should force him to look very, very carefully about whether he wants to pursue this. Maybe take a year off and work in law adjacent field / internship capacity and get a bit more life experience/perspective.
Sorry… I realize this is for your friend’s kid. Sorry!
My parents did many many years ago – but the catch was that I had to go right after undergrad. They took out loans to do it, and it worked out fine, but I don’t recommend going to law school directly after undergrad. I knew people whose parents paid, but it wasn’t super common even back then when a lot of law schools were way, way less expensive.
Ooh. If I was your coworker and his wife who didn’t work said that they should support kid through law school my immediate reaction would be to say great! I’m retiring and you can get a job to pay for that!
I’m just the friendly coworker here, but I share your rage!
Yup, this. Guessing this coworker isn’t feeling very valued by his family, other than by what he provides financially. The kid’s entitled attitude didn’t come out of nowhere.
I wasn’t really welcome to live at home after my college freshman year summer. I probably could have come home one more summer, but they were very relieved when I didn’t. If I had gone to law school an hour or a block from home, I would have been expected to live independently. I did get some significant funds at graduation ($15k) and a grandparent bribed me with $15k before starting school to pick one law school over another, though the price differential was probably closer to $60k (which I am still paying back almost 20 years later).
I think you also have to factor in modern costs of education, which have been rising radically over the past decade. Rent also has gone up considerably. These days, something like 15K or even 30K is no longer all that significant in the grand scheme.
I would actually be mad if I had a kid going to school a block from home who decided to burn money on rent.
I mean, it wouldn’t have been my “decision.” My mother was done when I was 18. And it had nothing to do with ability to assist. My education was plenty expensive back then. And I was actively discouraged from going to a state school based on upper middle class/upper class sensibilities in the family (though there would have been a few exceptions). But I don’t know that I would treat children the same way. It definitely affected me financially long term.
I had a $10,000 gap for my Masters that my funding didn’t cover. I was prepared to get a student loan but my mom said she’d give me a loan instead, then very, very generously forgave it as a graduation present. My parents covered my undergrad, so I really didn’t expect any help with grad school and thought that I was going to be responsible for it myself. I also lived at home during grad school and contributed a nominal, well-below-market-rate amount for rent and groceries, which is obviously a form of support as well.
Don’t sacrifice retirement for a kids college or grad school. It is customary for parents to help their children to the extent feasible for them based on their income, goals, lifestyle, etc.
The only friend I know who was supported entirely in law school / a graduate program was my friend who had a trust fund. She used that to pay for law school and paid her living expenses with money she saved by working in i banking for 3 years between undergrad and law school.
Most of my friends who went to non law, business, or medicine graduate school went part time and paid their own way (either out of pocket, via employer reimbursement, or a combo).
Of my friends in med or law school: about half got some non tuition financial support from their parents. The rest got nothing.
I went part time while working. Purposely chose my school for being cheaper than others I was looking at. I paid everything myself during those years: tuition, rent, utilities, groceries, you name it.
Fwiw, this was 2 years ago on a 75k salary. So decent money but not much!!
My dad paid for my car payment and car insurance while I was in law school and my mom covered my cell phone. I had a full scholarship, so I’m not totally sure if they would have covered any tuition, but they never offered prior to me getting the scholarship. I covered all other living expenses.
That’s rich that two people who don’t contribute financially to this family think the person who does should pay everything for the son!
Totally. What’s wrong with this…. family? And the values they have instilled in their kid.
OP here. The mom has been reading articles having to do with student loan forgiveness with a lot of sad stories about people burdened by huge amounts of student loan debt. That’s apparently behind this.
I would personally be so offended if my kid said “but can’t you just work three more years so I don’t have to take out loans?” But I think that’s why my coworker is asking me what I did with my own kid (who will be paying loans for a while!)
I lived at home and only financially contributed to groceries. Worked full time and also took out relatively small loans.
DH’s parents paid for his undergraduate but not law school. Recently they gave him a mid-four-figure financial gift partly because they felt they had given his siblings more financial support: they bought a house for one sibling, paid for grad school for another, and paid excessive years of undergraduate to the last. As far as I know he has no resentment against siblings or parents about how it all went.
I have a master’s and a PhD. Parents helped with undergrad, I got scholarships and worked during the summer to pay for part of it too. They have me a used car when I finished my bachelor’s degree and I funded my graduate degrees through assistantships, fellowships and loans. I feel very fortunate that I didn’t have to take out much in loans and paid them off after a few years. I work in higher ed and it’s very uncommon for people to get parental help to pay for graduate school.
I was always told that you can take out loans for school but not retirement so fund retirement first. But I’m not a lawyer and my grad school was paid for partially one year and totally the following year through a scholarship.
BigLaw partner and I love my job. I wouldn’t want my kids (high school) to go to law school and would want them to look down the barrel of a six figure debt gun as they pulled the trigger. That could be a house. You could get a job paying 50K. Loan forgiveness may end except for public interest jobs you don’t want or can’t get. You may struggle to juggle after having kids and abandon the field after 5-10 years. I think people make better decisions with some skin in the game vs no skin in the game.
And in my circle, only the people using family money for boarding school really pay for graduate degrees. In part because they haven’t paid much prior to that.
Hardly anyone’s parents paid for law school when I went. Mine did but we’ve got a lot of family money so it was NBD and didn’t delay anyone’s anything. I do think if you have kids, I’d reconsider spending money on private elementary schools and the like and I’d save that for grad school, but that’s a different conversation.
I had funding for my MS. My parents paid for car insurance and flights home. They paid 100 % of my undergrad and it never even occurred to me to ask for them to pay for grad school. The insurance and flights were a very pleasant surprise.
I graduated from a public T14 in 2014. My parents did not contribute to my college or legal education, so my experience isn’t relevant to your question. But—of the friends I had whose family had for paid for their entire college education—many (veering into most) had family who made sizable contributions to their law school expenses. Typically, their family would cover their tuition (since it was a public school, in-state tuition was reasonable relative to many law schools) and the student would be responsible for everything else. I don’t know the degree to which the help came from parents, grandparents, or other family members.
No, but I got other family (aunt) support for tuition and some living expenses. I ended up taking out $10,000 in loans total over the two year program for living expenses.
I didn’t go to law school because taking out that much in loans didn’t sound prudent, my parents weren’t in a position to support me, and I didn’t want to do big law to make the loans make sense.
I now have a government job I love and about half of my team is comprised of lawyers, so I still ended up in the same position I’d probably be in.
I took loans out for all of my law school costs. My parents helped out with undergrad, but not graduate school at all. I don’t think any of my friends had parental support for law school.
This is class-driven. I paid my own way for grad school. At my fancy grad school, almost nobody else was paying their own way. Lots of limos with chauffeurs at my graduation.
If this kid went to a fancy ugrad, I can see how s/he could be surrounded by affluence and the expectation that parents also pay for grad school.
I came up through expensive, elite prep schools and none of my friends had graduate school paid for by their parents, and all of my friends from growing up have graduate degrees. My one friend, the only one of us who went to law school, had a trust fund that was only to be used for graduate school or a down payment. And, it was not enough for both. In fact, it wasn’t even enough for all of her Ivy League law school tuition.
Her parents did pay for her entire Ivy League undergrad and lovely wedding, but she had to manage her trust within its perimeters.
Renting a limo for graduation is a WAY different expense level than paying for grad school, and I don’t think you can automatically assume that anyone who does the former is also doing the latter.
Right?! It’s like $200! Private law school can be $150k easily.
Yeah, I was not assuming. I am just sharing what my classmate-friends shared. I also knew at least 7 classmates who bought condos or SFHs the summer of graduation because their parents who paid for their degree also gifted them a down payment for a home purchase.
Believe me, I was blown away. My parents were public servants that never made 6-figures combined.
I paid for my own grad school, though my parents took out and paid for my undergrad loans. I was already working full time when I decided to do grad school at night. I took out loans and am nearly done paying them.
The son sounds like a smacked @ss
“Kid is insistent that parents typically pay for law school tuition, room, and board.”
It’s not rare, but it’s definitely not typical. I went to a private law school with a big scholarship and covered the rest with loans. Lots of my classmates’ tuition and living expenses were paid by their parents; I remember this surprising me at the time but I had gone to a state school for undergrad and my family was solidly middle class. I had little prior exposure to people whose parents made enough money to do that. I do think law school often draws kids from more affluent backgrounds than other types of programs might. Law school is, across the board, very expensive. It just seems delusional to imagine that it is “typical” for parents to pay up to 180k for tuition plus living expenses. In any event, parents should definitely not hamstring their retirement planning to pay for law school. Nope nope nope nope.
What is typical is for students to make choices about what law school to attend in a way that takes their financial resources into account. There are hundreds of schools out there and many schools give out generous scholarship money to attract students in particular GPA/LSAT score ranges. If your parents are willing and able to pay for whatever school you want, do that, fine. If they are not, and you are (rightfully) wary about taking out 200k in loans, you go to a lower ranked school that gives you scholarship money. Sometimes you have to make a hard choice — do I go to better ranked school/school I like more and take out more loans and hope and pray that I’ll get a job that allows me to pay the loans off with that extra name recognition, or do I take out fewer loans but maybe have worse job prospects upon graduation? These are considerations that kid should weigh, and honestly, it’s a useful exercise for thinking about what his goals are for law school and his career, and how to make smart choices to achieve those goals.
Picking the lower ranked school takes your career earning potential way down though. The legal profession cares about school rank a whole lot.
Holy yikes. My parents didn’t even give me a dime for UNDERGRAD, much less grad school. This kid has some growing up to do.
Lawyer here and mom of a current (and one former) grad student. No one in my circle had parents paying for law school. I borrowed every dime, but that was the early 90s.
We are paying my daughter’s rent while she is in grad school because she did not use all of her undergrad allowance, thanks to a cheap school and generous athletic scholarship. We did not pay for my older daughter’s Ph.D. program because it was fully funded by her university.
Most of my daughter’s friends in her grad program are borrowing to pay their own way. My daughter borrowed some but also got a T.A. position for several semesters that included a tuition waiver (such a good deal) and a small stipend. Most of her friends have done something similar, or they’re married and have working spouses (surprisingly common in her friend group), or they are living at home to defray expenses.
I would never pay a kid’s way through law school. He needs skin in the game.
My high school friends ran the gamut and my college friends were largely UMC. One kid had law school paid for and she was an only child of only children who had a grand parental inheritance that made it possible and she went to State U undergrad and public high school, so modest living otherwise. She became a federal employee in a JD-preferred job that suits her, which I think she could only do with COL in her city by not having loans. She was lucky. My friends and I borrowed everything and if we were lucky had parental help for things like car insurance but no commitment of funding even that.
I don’t think that’s typical at all among people who are not very wealthy. My parents are middle class (real middle class, not the rich people who claim to be middle class kind), and they contributed to my law school expenses by taking me grocery shopping when they visited, which I really appreciated. My husband got some grad school contributions from his parents (absolutely not full freight, maybe like 20% of the total) in a similar scenario as for your daughter – they had saved for his education and then he got a full scholarship to college so there was some money left over.
I paid for my own law school, and my kid paid for her master’s degree with the GI Bill. Your work friend’s kid is scamming him.
I was in law school more than 30 years ago, but paid for it all myself. (My mother co-signed one, modest loan.) My now 29-y-o went to law school and graduated last year. They had essnetially a full ride for tuition in undergrad and I paid for all of their expenses through the 529 or cash flow; I didn’t want them burdened with student loan debt from undergrad. But they were on their own for law school – with some occasional small gifts, and I paid for things like the cell phone plan – and took out some sizeable loans to do that.
I cannot imagine putting off my retirement, much less putting my retirement at risk, by putting another $100-$150k into my adult child’s law or grad school.
I had a scholarship (40%), took out loans (30%) and my parents (25%) and grandparents (5%) contributed to my undergrad (2008). I paid for my masters outright but that is because my full-time job contributed 60% to the cost and I went to night school (2012). I paid off my undergrad loans in 2017, and my parents gave me 2k that year toward closing out my undergrad loans.
My parents paid for my younger sister’s undergrad outright, and paid her masters tuition but not board outright (she took loans). They had more money at the time she went to school than when I went, and did not have concerns about fully funding their retirement.
I was kind of surprised by how many people at my lower T30 private law school had parents paying 100% of their tuition. It definitely wasn’t everyone, but it was a sizeable to me number (maybe 20-40%?), especially since the school wasn’t an Ivy or Ivy Lite. It was a good law school with a high bar passage rate, so it’s not like people who go there have no career prospects, but there are public law schools similar to or above it in the rankings that cost about a fifth as much. The people who had their parents paying were pretty insufferable, tbh. They’d whine about how they couldn’t afford Louboutins and the rest of us were like “…. we can’t afford rent and textbooks.”
Undergrad was a split cost between me and my parents – scholarships or grants came out of my half. They wanted me to feel more invested (literally) in my education. Worked a few years to pay off my loans before heading to law school, paid entirely by me (loans, scholarships, work study). ’08 grad. Asking my parents to fund law school literally never would have occurred to me – I was shocked to see it among some of my classmates but don’t know how actually prevalent it was.
solidly middle class upbringing, SAHM and dad was an accountant.
My parents paid for law school, but for the sake of full disclosure, my parents are very wealthy. Amongst my friends, it was probably 50/50 if parents paid or not.
Same here.
I’m a parent of two and our HHI was about 1/3 of what is typical for commenters on this board. I retired when my youngest was a senior in college. My dh retired when our oldest started college. We paid for undergrad, covering what they didn’t get in merit aid at a state school, and paid for my oldest to go to grad school (she also had a huge scholarship from the program). We prioritized education savings and retirement savings above all else while they were young. We still have a nice amount in a 529 that we can switch to a grandbaby if there ever is one. Families do what families do. I’m very happy that we allowed them the gift of no student loans. It means they have been able to buy houses while in their 20s, travel extensively, and be slightly choosy about their jobs.
I took out loans for grad school (MBA). I was working full-time and living on my own in an apartment. I never expected my parents to pay for it.
I see where this is coming from because among my parents friends a lot of parents do pay for grad school – but not if it was going to delay their retirement. Only if they have so much money that paying for grad school wouldn’t mess up their retirement.
Saving for education was a huge deal for my parents – to an extent where I really wish I could go tell young, struggling them not to worry about a 529. Their intent was to pay for private undergrad for all their kids but not grad school – but a sibling and I both got full merit scholarships for undergrad, and when I went to grad school they offered to help, which was very very wonderful but not an expectation I had. I also got half tuition covered through TA-ships and used savings for living expenses. Truthfully, I think if I had asked my parents would have covered more but I didn’t want to / would have felt bad about more support at that point/didn’t really need it.
Just graduated from a T6 law school and my older sis has a PhD. To echo others, I think it’s not unheard of but definitely not expected. My parents very generously supported my sister and my undergraduate degrees, but we both knew we were on our own for graduate school. My sister’s doctorate was funded and I received a full tuition scholarship to law school, so we figured it out. Among my classmates, I would say it’s not uncommon for parents to foot all or part of the bill (e.g., parents pay for tuition but not living expenses, or sometimes even buy kid an apartment) but definitely not the norm, and most of us are figuring it out with a mix of scholarships, loans, summer associate money, etc
Wow, full tuition scholarship to a T6 law school is seriously impressive. Kudos!
I don’t know anyone whose parents paid for law school. We all had loans (and many are still paying 20 years later). My parents helped with things like car payment, paid my insurance, kept me on their cell phone plan – and would randomly send a few $100 a month. They paid my undergraduate degree when a blue collar family could afford to foot the bill at a state school for less than $10,000 a year.
does anyone have this top? curious how it’s worth $269
https://betsyfisher.com/collections/tops-1/products/vivi-v-neck-drop-shoulder-top-dark-navy
What is going on with the red splotches under the model’s hair?
Baaaaad photoshop!
It strikes me as insnaley overpriced for what it is. I’d take a look at Marcella NY, they have similar pieces that are ethically and sustainably made for half that price.
I dunno, but a couple of weeks ago, I got a dress with similar pleats at a little boutique for $72. It is amazing and has a lot more going on than this little top.
Why in the world is this top $269?!
Oh I see that was your question. Sorry. Sticker shock over here.
Gold hinge? Is this brand just for the Bama rush crowd and high school girls? And am I right that it’s just a site you order from?
I am currently in the middle of a divorce. I am very happy to be divorcing. I live in NY. We have agreed on some things. 50/50 custody and the sale of the apartment. Other things, we are far apart on. He doesn’t want to reimburse me for the money he spent on his girlfriend for example. We are seven months into this process. How much longer does the settlement process take? Any stories or tips would be appreciated.
Ugh it’s gonna take longer than you think it should. Presumably you are lawyered up? If not, you should be, if only so you know your rights. And honestly my advice is “don’t sweat the small stuff and almost all of it is small stuff.” For example I can imagine you are incandescent with rage about the money spent on the girlfriend, but unless it’s tens or scores or hundreds of thousands of dollars, I’d consider it a down payment on my freedom and move on.
Agreed on all of this.
One small thing to add: he should absolutely have never cheated on you and having done so, should reimburse you for funds spent on his girlfriend. However… it costs time and money to get those funds from him.
Do you want to spend a year and $10,000 fighting him over $5,000? If so, you do you, and I’ll cheer you on as you stick it to that SOB. If you don’t want to spend $10k fighting over $5k, then file it under “costs of getting divorced and life can sometimes suck” and move on. Feel ALL the feelings of how utterly unfair that is, take up axe throwing, vent to your friends, and make the financially smart choice of letting it go.
How much longer the settlement process takes depends on how much you care about the things that are left on the table. It sounds like you are into the emotional issues now, and that’s hard to predict. There is no wrong or right approach here, but it is just a matter of how you want to balance getting him out of your life quickly against getting him out of your life paying what he owes (and righting any wrongs you feel need righting).
My divorce was less contentious and did not involve children. I absolutely left money on the table, probably mid-five figures. But I also got him out of my life, off my mortgage, and out of my hair quickly, and for me, that was worth the trade. He still wanted to fight towards the end; he did things like insist on keeping all of our wedding china that I had picked out because his side of the family had bought “more than 50% of the pieces” (and he sent me a spreadsheet breaking it down to prove it). I just decided that he could win that sort of battle, and I’d win the battle of forgetting about him first. If he had been throwing marital assets at a girlfriend during the marriage, I probably would have been more entrenched out of rage.
I don’t know if this is helpful. But I think that’s the balancing question you’re facing: is any of what’s left on the table worth continuing to engage over? If so, what’s the shortest path to resolving those issues, and how can your lawyer use the items you don’t care about to get you there?
My tip is let as much go as possible. Since you’ve settled the big stuff, let the little stuff go and just give him what he wants or drop things like the girlfriend money. Get it over with and consider it all the cost of moving on.
Is it stuff or money? I think I had the hardest time with stuff when my ex husband moved out with EVERYTHING. I had to start over again, without benefit of being a new bride and getting to register for gifts!
Money was harder. I had to take out a home equity loan to pay him for more than just his half of the home equity (like “his” half of my more valuable 401k, when I could never convince him to contribute to his own during our marriage! Ugh!)
So he took all of my stuff, wanted half the house, and money for everything else. I was so mad.
But I also just wanted to be free so I considered it all the cost of my freedom. And in hindsight I really think I came out ahead. Seriously. It will all be so much better for you once it’s settled! And that’s worth something.
light question for tonight: what are your favorite flowers? to receive in bouquets, for growing flowers, for perennials?
i’m still learning – for my cut flower garden i do like dahlias, lisianthus and just got a hybrid tea rose that i’m loving. went to a local florist and was in awe over all the cool things they had there that are probably too hard for me to grow, but i don’t know the names. asters? mums? weird-colored daisies? not sure.
for perennials i think the rozanne geranium; we just got 3 delphiniums that i’m hoping will be awesome.
One of my hobbies is a flower cutting garden. These are the ones that are successful for me year after year —
Basic annuals: zinnias, cosmos, marigolds, bachelor’s buttons. Easy to grow by directly sowing from seed. More annuals that I start inside (not that you necessarily need to): black knight scabiosa (i love these), celoisa (the feathery kind, not the brainy kind), peony duchess aster, gomphrena, strawflower, snapdragons, salpiglossis kew blue.
Perennials: echinacea (several varieties), rudbeckia (several varieties – cappucino is my favorite and self-seeds every year), yarrow, sea holly, stokes aster, fairy bells, shasta daisy, dianthus. Sometimes I do canterbury bells but they are biennials that take two years to flower from seed and then die.
I also grow a variety of dahlias. These are kind of like the gift that keep on giving – they multiply every year so now I have a hundred or so tubers after starting out with only a handful of tubers.
If you go seed shopping, there are all sorts of things you can grow from seed that you can’t typically buy in garden centers. I bet you could grow a lot of the flowers that you see in florist shops!
Oh man I’d never heard of salpiglossis kew but that’s gorgeous!! Have you ever wintersowed them? I had a lot of success with that last year as far as getting stuff to germinate but I’d never really transplanted seedlings so I lost a lot by putting them in the ground too early. Starting flowers indoors means you need the lights and stuff, right?
My cosmos and strawflowers are taking over the raised bed I have for cut flowers this year :|
The weird-coloured daisies might be Gerberas. They don’t smell very nice, but are very decorative in bouquets.
Asters are very easy to grow, for some reason I always kill Chrysanthemums.
I like to grow Violets, Marigolds, Sweet Peas, Poppies, Corn Flowers and Pelargonias. Sanvitalias are also very nice.
They had like lime green centers and saturated fuchsia petals – they might be gerbera daisies, I guess, but I’ve never seen that color before. Google Lens was of no help.
I only got a few of the poppies I sowed this year but they were so pretty – definitely trying those again next year.
Are pelargonias just geraniums? I’ve been collecting zonal geraniums because they’re so easy to propagate…
I have a very old rose garden, planted long before I bought my house 20 years ago. I’d say many of them were planted in the era from 1970-2000. I love cut roses, but honestly, I mostly enjoy them on the bush. They last longer and appreciate the color they bring to my outdoor areas.
It’s a mix of hybrid teas, floribundas, shrub roses, and a couple of old rugosas.
Bright purple irises are my favorite to look at. But I’ve never had any luck growing irises – they’re so tough!
Peonies are my favorite to grow because they’re super easy and I also like the look of them. We have multiple pink, white and red peony bushes.
I also love calla lilies. My wedding flowers were purple and white irises, calla lilies and roses.
We’ve had a lot of luck with irises – I bought one Siberian iris at a local sale for $1 a few years ago that has turned into like 10 plants because we keep dividing it. We have the taller bearded irises too although ours never rebloom. Maybe you’re planting them too deep? I’ve heard planting the roots as something like “leaving the toad’s back exposed.” :shrug:
We had landscapers plant them, but they tried and failed several times. They looked pretty shallow to me. My theory is they were all eaten by rabbits before they could really grow. We have a huuuuge rabbit issue in our yard, and none of the things we tried to keep them away worked. We’ve had problems with tulips too although those at least usually bloom before they get bitten, and they leave the cut flower which we can bring inside and put in a vase. Rabbits apparently don’t eat peonies, which I think is why we’ve had luck growing them!
For growing: sunflowers, cosmos, poppies, delphiniums, nasturtiums, echinacea, marigolds, columbine, peonies, lilies, snapdragons, foxglove, hellebores, lilacs, hibiscus, tulips, hyacinths, crocuses, trillium, hostas, alliums, mallows, lavender, spirea…
Roses for bouquets
For growing….hydrangeas, fuchsias, roses, bulbs
I am so so so sorry. This sounds unbelievably hard. You would 100% be doing the right thing by moving away with the children. I’m so sorry that you have to miss out on a job you love because of your sick ex.
I might be misreading but this sounds like an issue with your kids not your ex? Your older kid abused your younger one? I would start there and focus on that situation, the ex sounds awful but a red herring in this situation.
I’m also confused. Your ex seems awful and I’m sorry you’re going through this, but the immediate issue is protecting your younger child from the older child who’s harming them.
This. Omg this.
I’m not trying to be harsh but you’re completely losing the forest for the trees here. Sexual abuse is a MUCH MUCH bigger issue than only brushing your teeth once a day (some dentists actually say this is enough, fyi) and eating junk food. Diet and hygiene are things you worry about once a child’s physical safety has been secured.
Do your older children need to be in a group home? Autism is not an excuse to sexually abuse someone, and while your ex sounds like a terrible parent and ex-spouse in many ways, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him or any parent to be vigilant enough to prevent abuse happening by and against tweens. He can’t be in a child’s bedroom 24/7 (nor would that be remotely appropriate at this age!) That fact that it hasn’t happened on your parenting time just means you’ve been lucky or you don’t know about it.
Why are they off meds?
Their team took them off meds during any non school days.
Oh, this must be so hard. As a criminal defense attorney, I am aware the autisitc children may not understand sexual abuse. I am afraid some of these commenters are giving no grace whatsoever to you or the older children. I think when you deal with judges, lawyers, therapists, or CPS, you should lead with the facts about autism, ADD, and meds because your husband needs to be educated about caring for the child who is doing the abuse.
I thought that when a child was abusive that it was a red flag that they may be being abused by an adult.
That’s true… but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s critical to get the victim way from the abusive sibling as soon as possible.
*away
“ All 3 children are victims here. A child just doesn’t wake up one day and touch their younger siblings private parts.”
I’m sorry, but this is not the right attitude. You don’t know which of your children if any has been abused by adults. You KNOW your youngest is a victim. Children abusing other children is a red flag they’ve themselves been abused by adults in their lives, yes. You should investigate that further. But it’s not a certainty the older child was abused by an adult. There are plenty of children who abuse younger siblings without being victims themselves, and this insistence that your older is just as much a victim as the youngest one that you know with certainty to be a sexual abuse victim is very disturbing to me.
I’m having a hard time believing CPS is unbothered by this just because you’re white and rich. I personally know of two white affluent families who lost custody of kids for much less. What does the child’s pediatrician say? I can’t imagine any pediatrician turning a blind eye to this and would think they could intervene with CPS or the custody process.
I live in Texas, and my pediatrician absolutely would care about this…. You can’t just blame this on living in Texas.
+1 I’m not in Texas but I am in a state that’s also very politically conservative and has somewhat dysfunctional social services, and I’m finding it really hard to believe that neither CPS nor the pediatrician would care about this at all, unless there’s more to the story. Was the allegation investigated and not found credible?
I think the kid who is the abuser is not her child? She says “an older child” abused her younger child. It is very confusing with all of the olders/youngers in the story.
Is there a way to get your kids away from the abuser kid? Is that child related to your husband’s girlfriend or something?
She did try and hide that in her first comment but it is clear from
The others that her older children are abusing her youngest
Oh, stop it. She does not need your anonymous cruelty.
They’re both her children.
She seems more protective of the children who are abusers. I feel awful for the youngest, who is the one actually being abused.
Yep. And worrying about things like poor diet and hygiene at a time like this is wild. Like obviously those things aren’t good but they’re on a completely different level than sexual abuse.
Ooooffff… No advice here, just commiseration. I have a friend going through something similar. Even though she put together a team of legal experts (which is insanely expensive), she’s had to learn the limits of what CPS, family therapy, and the legal system can do to protect children from a parent who won’t stop at anything.
I hope you get more answers over the weekend from people with personal or legal experience!
iirc at least one of your kids is autistic, right? are they verbal? are they involved in the abuse (on either side)? i feel like a disability parent advocate maybe might be of help here. my son is verbal but is not always a reliable narrator so if there were a whiff of allegations like these (especially in two households) i feel like it would be grounds to get bigger reporting or protections. i’m not sure what those are but.. something?
i’m not up on CSA, so forgive me if this is a bad question – but isn’t this often a learned behavior? i would be very worried about where my child had learned it.
Your ex sounds terrible but if one child is abusing another it’s probably ongoing and I think it’s very naive to think it can’t and won’t happen at your house just because you’re a good parent. They may have learned the behavior from dad, either through inappropriate exposure to a consensual adult relationship or through adult-on-child abuse, and that’s a separate issue that should be dealt with too. But the immediate priority has to be getting the victim physically separated from the abusive sibling. And that applies at both houses, not just your ex’s. If a 13 year old is molesting an 8 year old there is really no way you can prevent that just by being a conscientious parent.
Please see my reply above. CPS and the therapists have said the children don’t need to be separated.
When the children are with me I keep my youngest as separated as possible.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with this. So sorry.
With full awareness that this may not be a possibility, are you open to temporarily having the two older children be with one parent and the younger child be with the other (so both parents have some children at all times)? Would your ex be open to that? Your other concerns are absolutely worth fighting over through the normal custody processes, but cutting off this biggest concern by physically separating the two children involved might be the quickest solution.
+1
I will gently ask…do you and your ex think it is a good idea, even if it is not necessary?
CPS and the therapists are going to tell you the bare minimum, rock bottom, you have to do this or you can’t do that stuff. But “it’s not necessary” doesn’t automatically mean that it’s not a choice you could make for your family. It sounds like neither you nor your ex really trust the other parent to keep these two kids apart, and so agreeing to just physically keep them apart might be a place of common ground that works for now.
Again, please hear these questions with lots of gentleness and empathy. You are in a very tough spot, and I hope others continue to chime in with creative options and recommendations for legal strategies.
I think 8:25 is spot on. Regardless of how bad any situation is, there’s only so much CPS can do and frankly, that you’d want them to do. They aren’t your personal advocate. Hard as it is, I’d put the kids first and work this out with your ex-H. I’d stop jumping to conclusions about how the older kid “learned” to harm the younger kid and I’d focus completely on making that stop however it happened. That probably means cooperating more with the ex. The courts and legal system arent going to be anywhere as effective as you might be if you change your strategy and put your anger aside and focus on protecting your youngest kid.
There is no cooperation with my ex.
Honestly if you want people to help
You you’re going to need to do
Some self reflection. Your kids knowing daddy sleeps
With his girlfriend is not an issue at all.
Yeah I mean that’s not great. But it’s not the central problem here.
Someone here recently recommended Visible (by Verizon) as a phone network. I did the thing tonight…was paying $125/month with Verizon and just switched to Visible for $20/month!
Also just cancelled all my Max, Hulu, and Disney+ subscriptions and re-subscribed through the bundle for $30!
Oooh thanks switching to visible is on my to do list.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a basic and nice leather padfolio? I’m looking for under one <$250. TIA!
Yes! Leatherology! I love mine. I got it monogrammed with a small single letter in the bottom right corner.
They also have a zippered version, but this is what I have: https://www.leatherology.com/leather-padfolio
Check out Aspinal, it’s lovely quality. Full price is above budget, but they have frequent sales. https://www.aspinaloflondon.com/outlet?carousel_category=all-mens
The oldest daughter is America’s social safety net.
Change my mind.
I agree.
The oldest daughter in my family is disabled, so not a safety net. I am the youngest child of 4, and I do everything for my parents. Not sure if family care is what you meant.
I’m the oldest and my sister does way more than me. I have a big job and she’s a SAHM. I’m grateful to her for being there. My husband has no siblings and takes on all of his family responsibility. Being the oldest isn’t a personality.
Any woman is the safety net when it comes down to it, whether for child care or elder care or spousal care. It drives me insane.
This.
Yes this. My brother gets a pass for everything. He is not required to help with family events or emotional support. He’ll have to take the garbage out once in awhile which takes 5 minutes. Thank goodness my boyfriend can cook, clean, do dishes, mop the floor, laundry and support me emotionally.
What will happen in the future where we go from oldest daughter to any daughter to having only children, half of which are boys. IDK anyone who can shoulder solo the burden of two aging parent, let alone 4 grandparents and any older step-relatives.
I’m dreading the time when my parents need more help. I’m the only child that is physically and mentally healthy and doesn’t have kids. A lot of the responsibility falls on me and I’m beginning to resent my siblings.
I’m pregnant with our one and done and I plan to go into a senior community when the time comes. It’s too much for one person to be responsible for elder care and the responsibility simply must be spread around. I want to enjoy my time with my kid, not place a massive burden on him. I would feel the exact same and even more strongly about if if I were carrying a daughter.
I’m an only child and my parents moved to my city to make things easy on me. They’ll move to a retirement community when one of them dies or they can no longer live independently. I plan to do the same thing for my kid, assuming she’s ok with it. If you have 2+ kids it’s more complicated to move to a kid’s city because it causes hurt feelings (especially if they both have grandkids) so then you’re more dependent on one of your kids wanting to move home.
My parents both had siblings but my mom’s was only modestly helpful at best and my dad and his sister had a lot of conflict over their mom’s care and both wished they were only children. A good sibling can be a big help with eldercare, but I don’t think it’s always harder to be an only child in this situation.
Yea this is BS. Everyone and every family is different. I’m the youngest and I’m the one my mom comes to for help with anything. My older siblings…definitely not a safety net in any sense.
I feel like functioning as an oldest daughter is an option sadly available and imposed on any woman. So being born later isn’t a guarantee you’ll escape.
We are like worker bees: all female and we work and work and then we die.
Clearly you haven’t met my older sister. I’m the middle child, and my husband and I take care of everything for my mother — finances, health, logistics, you name it. I completely agree that our safety net stinks, but I’m really over this idea that oldest daughters shoulder all the burden while the rest of us blithely gallivant around. My best friend cares for her difficult elderly parents while her self-absorbed older sister does basically nothing.
Actually the childfree daughter is the backbone of society.
THIS!!!
Unless you have kids and still have to do it all as well. That’s why we are called the sandwich generation. Caring for kids and elders at the same time.
I think we can actually call it the daughter who steps up! Whether she is the first born, childless, etc. Some of my siblings step up and some don’t. My resentment for some of them grows!
So what are you all putting into place in your own lives to make sure this burden doesn’t fall on your daughters’ generation?
I’m amazed at how poorly equipped society is for dealing with an aging society. I feel like I spend a lot of time arguing with my dh about how we need to de-accumulate and put things into place so our house is easier to age in and our kids are stuck making decisions about us. Our estate planning and POAs, and medical decisions are made and communicated, but at some point we are going to need help. Personally, I would move into a CCRC, but he’s dead set against them.
1) saving as much money as I can — money doesn’t fix everything but solves a lot of issues
2) not even trying to age in place and accepting that as soon as I start to need any kind of regular assistance with daily life I’ll be in a retirement/assisted living facility near my kids. Not one of my grandparents really got old in their own houses, so it’s not something that’s normalized in my family – I know others are different.
+1. No aging in place for me.
Saving for retirement with an eye towards being able to afford to scale up care as we age so we don’t become a burden on our one & done. And taking our health seriously now so we have a better shot at avoiding problems as we age.
Oldest daughter raising hand here.
Yes, with the caveat that the “eldest daughter” may or may not be the first born in any given family.
I’m grateful this has not been the case in my family. For my parents, my older brother is doing the most because he is single, childless, works remotely, and most crucially, lives the closest. My younger brother and especially his wife also do a lot because she is a PA (only medical professional in the family), he works remotely and has a lot of money, and they also don’t have kids. I, the only daughter, probably do the least. I have a child, both my husband and I have butt in seat jobs, and don’t live very close. I’m very grateful to my brothers and sister in law for all that they have done.
In my husband’s family, his sister basically washed her hands of their father for reasons that remain unclear. She lived much closer but my husband was the primary caregiver and estate executor on the other side of the country. And I pretty much stayed out of it because my husband didn’t ask for my help, aside from facilitating his travel to see his dad.
Then I hope you are throwing $ at this situation.
Signed,
The single daughter who did it all while siblings lived across the country.
Definitely not in my family. My younger sister (SAHM, lives nearby) is overwhelming the person who takes on the caregiver role with our parent.
And I realize he is an outer, but my father quit a job he loved and moved back to his home town in his 40s to take care of his mother – and did so for the next twenty years, despite the fact that his perfectly healthy, but incredibly self-centered older sister lived 30 minutes away.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I agree with others that you need to figure out how to separate the youngest. Even if CPS doesn’t think it is needed. You yourself have questioned CPS’ actions as it relates to your ex so I would not think their determination of whether the kids need to be separated is dispositive. However well intentioned you are, the abuse can happen in your home too. Fighting about what started it is less of a concern – it has happened and you need to protect your youngest from further abuse. I think even moving away is not the answer if it means the kids will be together and the youngest is still at risk of being abused. This is a tough situation but don’t let your anger towards your ex cause you to focus on them and not the very real danger your youngest is in even at your place.
This.
It’s not clear to me where everyone lives. Can you afford to put your youngest in a weekly daycamp until summer is over, both at your home and your ex’s home? Even though you have an au pair, that would take the child out of the house for more hours. It might be a relief to have a separate life from two higher needs siblings. Maybe you could keep the au pair, using her for drop off/pick up and negotiating more evening hours of supervision.
https://www.siblingsexualtrauma.com/unique-brains-offending
maybe helpful?
Can you talk about why CPS closed the case? Did they find that the allegations of abuse were not credible?
also this: https://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2017-PSB-Fact-Sheet-Overview-3.pdf
(don’t know the source, just looks helpful)
Thank you for the links. It’s helpful to read through them.
I don’t understand why you think the children don’t need to be separated just because the therapists and CPS said so.
It doesn’t matter what I think. I would prefer my children to be separated. No one is advising that. My ex husband is not supporting it. I can’t be the only person in the room suggesting it. I need CPS and/therapists to back this up. They aren’t.
You are your child’s advocate. You absolutely can be the only person in the room suggesting it.
This.
Have you discussed with your attorney the wisdom of posting this stuff on the internet?
Yeah I wonder this too. I’ve recognized two real life acquaintances from things they’ve posted here and they shared much less than OP. This would be immediately identifiable and if your ex, his girlfriend or his attorney stumbled across this it seems like it would be really bad.
Seriously.
I was reading to the bottom to see what other people had suggested and what other information OP had shared and please, please, please stop posting about this to a public website. Please. Unless you have changed a lot of details, this situation is unique and what you have said here can absolutely be used against you (and your children).
Talk to your lawyer. Talk to your therapist. You are unsurprisingly not engaging in logical or linear thinking – and I do not blame you – but you need to talk to people who are not strangers on the internet and whose communications with you are privileged..
So. Just in case anyone else is wondering: apparently it isn’t a “loving wife” thing when u tell him the only way his [lying manipulative bitch] mother is getting anything from you the DIL going forward is if it would please him or make his life easier.
I didn’t say the [] bit out loud. But…. No? Wrong? Keep it all in my lil head?
What?
I mostly feel the same way you do, but I don’t see the need to announce it. Seems to go against the “makes his life easier” point. Not sure how telling him you hate his mom makes his life easier, even if true and justified.
Eh I can see both sides here. Having 1 person who is a negative (the MIL or in his case the Mom) is hard enough without a second personal conflict, that puts him in the middle.
You need to have some agency here and separate your children. Focus needs to be on keeping your child who is the victim safe.
CPS is overworked and under resourced, I wouldn’t trust them to always have the best judgement or the capacity to have the best judgement. They’re going to offer the minimum, as a parent you absolutely can and should go beyond that.