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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Old Navy is celebrating its 30th birthday and reissuing some of its bestsellers from 1994. I’m pretty sure I had some version of this rugby dress, and I’m seriously considering grabbing it again 30 years later.
This is something that I would probably reserve for a more casual office, but I think it could work with some loafers or oxfords for a very relaxed business casual look.
The dress is $28.99 at Old Navy (originally $49) and comes in sizes XS-4X and XSP-XXLP.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
nuqotw
Has anyone else hit a wall this week? Work was busy this week for both of us, we’ve consequently slacked off on housework so the house is a mess, and the kids got into it this morning. The weekend is shaping up to be all about cleaning up the house mess from this week rather than relaxing. Thank you for letting me vent.
Anonymous
Stars and moon must be out of alignment this week b/c this post menopausal women could swear I was PMS’ing. Everyone and everything getting me super irritated.
Anon
Same! Sending solidarity vibes; we’ll get through it.
Anon
I passed out on the couch before 830pm twice this week, and before 930 once in bed. And slept over an hour later on 2 work from home days (including today). What’s in the water….
I will be checking email and very little else today.
anon
or watch for a creeping up infection. Rest up this weekend if you can.
NY CPA
Had big deadlines last week and yesterday. My brain is completely fried. And I’m throwing a party at my apartment this weekend so if I dont rest today, I won’t get much of a chance to relax this weekend. I moved around calls this morning so that I can take off the afternoon because I just cannot deal with working today.
Cb
Ugh, just a slog this week. Think the weather getting colder hasn’t helped. Someone was creeping round our house last night so I feel quite unsettled, my kid left school near tears, I forgot his bus pass so had to pay, and I dropped him off at forest school and there were a bunch of wild aggressive kids there. I’m over it.
anon
Yup. It’s been a hard month, and it’s catching up with me.
Alex Mack
Yep. Definitely not at the top of my game, and I’m working an event on Saturday. At least there’s a slower week ahead.
Anon
Yup. We all hit a wall this week with school/work in full swing. My husband caught a hacking cold and I’ve felt mildly ill all week. Putting myself to bed at 9pm sharp most nights, drinking tons of water, and taking it easy has helped slightly. Planning on cocooning this weekend!
anon
Man, illness is spreading like wildfire in our community! One of my kiddos ended up with walking pneumonia, and both DH and DD have coughs. Seems early for this!
Anon
Yes, my son got pneumonia in August this year and it required 3 different meds to kick!
Anon
COVID still isn’t really seasonal, and USA is just coming down from a massive wave.
Anon
It is seasonal, just not the traditional season for flu, etc. For the last two or three years there have been consistently been peaks in late summer/beginning of the school year, and in early winter right around the winter holidays.
Anon
“they” are trying to treat it as a winter seasonal virus with fall booster shots when it is clearly not. I don’t know who is in charge of deciding these things but it feels like “but this is the way we’ve done it since the 90s” groupthink.
Clementine
Absolutely hit a wall. I was sick (like sick enough to take 2 sick days which I literally never do), one kiddo started acting out at school just out of the blue, and then today just… pushed me over the edge.
Mini-rant – husband works nights right now, I work days. Preschool kid has a field trip that requires an adult to bring them. Okay, sure. Figure out that Husband’s mom wants to bring her (grandma’s request), plan that weeks ago and also have a car appt that requires an early drop off. Fast forward to last night and… grandma can’t go, she has a cold. This would be fine; however… this happens every time. I don’t expect people to offer to help, but when you offer and then constantly cancel last minute… it’s aggravating. Husband is a champ and basically is powering through after a night shift to bring kiddo to the field trip but… I’m toast.
Anon
Same.
anon
it’s quarter end so everyone at work is running around like their heads are on fire and every email is an absolute emergency. I’m so ready for the weekend and the Q4
Anon
I had a really stressful thing yesterday so Monday – Wednesday were the wall of stress anticipating it. Now that it’s done and went well enough, I’m thinking of taking my own ass out to a fancy lunch to decompress.
anon
You’ve just described every week for me!!
LB
This thread is making me feel so much better! I felt like I was PMS-ing all week and could not bring myself to be productive AT ALL in the evenings. Just snacks and couch then bed. Hope next week is better…
Seventh Sister
I feel like my entire week has been an exercise in not screaming my head off at ridiculous requests, mostly from my husband. No, I am not “in charge” of remembering every kid-related or administrative task. No, the kitchen does not magically clean itself. No, I cannot construct a neighborhood program out of thin air because you think it’s necessary. Do you even remember that I also work full-time?
Anonymous
Fashion Advice, especially from NYers, needed. What would you wear to a black tie wedding in NYC?
Attending a wedding in NYC in October at a fancy musical venue, “black tie encouraged.” DH wearing a tux. Second wedding for both bride and groom – all of us 60 +. Was planning on wearing outfit A, but am suddenly wondering if i will look like an overdressed rube who has never attended a black tie wedding before (true). I do have a second option – What Would You Wear? I know one other female guest attending also traveling in from midwest and will check with her, but coming here for expert opinion!
A – floor length gown. Top is like a leotard or body suit; fitted, black, 3/4 length sleeves. Skirt is floor length, ombre pattern in fall colors. Material is shiny, and there is one layer of crinoline so it puffs out a bit – no quite a ball gown but that general silhouette. No sequins. It’s pretty, maybe just a bit matronly but am okay with that part.
B- midi length this tommy hilfiger dress. Midi, fluttery sleeves in see through black material; two layers of hem in similar fluttery plan in chiffon.
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/tommy-hilfiger-womens-v-neck-how-low-hem-chiffon-trim-dress?ID=16367675&pla_country=US&CAGPSPN=pla&trackingid=&m_sc=sem&m_sb=Google&m_tp=LIA&m_ac=Google_Womens_PLA&m_ag=&m_cn=GS_Women%27s_Dresses_PMax_LIA&m_pi=go_cmp-20663971821_adg-_ad-__dev-c_ext-_prd-196701633866USA&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr9m3BhDHARIsANut04bF8Kk4v8HKSU8zn-OVtDo2iVUYgRdah5RzBxCRjnnobgnFqcjljkAaAo-tEALw_wcB
Same black shoes with either.
Help!
Anon
Bit out of my depth here so don’t take me too seriously. That said, B does not read as black tie to me.
Anon
Agree and A sounds fabulous.
Anonymous
OP here, coming back to add – if B too informal, and A too much – what would you wear to black tie wedding in NY? Would a sleek silhouette be more sophisticated?
Cat
I would expect sleek midi-length or floor-length dresses. A lot of black.
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/lauren-ralph-lauren-womens-jersey-off-the-shoulder-side-slit-column-gown?ID=13442421&swatchColor=Black
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/calvin-klein-high-low-a-line-gown?ID=4496013&swatchColor=Black
Anon
A sounds fine. Link?
Suburban
Can you dress the B up with jewelry or accessories? Does not have to be real jewels
A sounds really great
Spend the money on hair and manicure and a fun bright cocktail ring
Anon
Definitely A!
Anon
+1 – NYC is a dressy place and if the couple is saying black tie, err on the side of dressy. I would be irritated if I was hosting something formal and dressy and people came in not that. A for sure, no question.
Choice A
Is A something like this? I think that’s great! I tend to do slimmer cut long gowns, similar to the first one posted by someone above but I also think these are great too and wouldn’t blink an eye!
https://www.dillards.com/p/ignite-evenings-ombre-satin-34-sleeve-ball-gown/511238866?sku=0479075&googleShop=Y&cm_mmc=GooglePLAs-_-Category+-+Womens+-+Performance+Max-_-null-_-EAIaIQobChMI2bmr-ZjjiAMVH0L_AR0uHwZ-EAQYASABEgI-rfD_BwE&gad_source=1
Anonymous
OMG you found it! Yes, this is it. Thank you.
Anonymous
definitely this one!!
Anon
Oh that is a million times better than B even if you weren’t worried about the dress code. I would 100% wear A.
anon
I really like that.
emeralds
Gorgeous!!
Nananon
This is beautiful, I would absolutely wear this.
Anon
This is definitely the one.
Anon
Gorgeous!!
Anon.
I think this is stunning and not matronly at all (I’m 42, in case it matters).
I would wear some sparkly, possibly dangly earrings (depending on the exact shade of the dress, either gold or silver-toned), or a big shiny pendant or brooch to spice up the black top part. A black or metallic sandal or pump would go well with it, as well as a small metallic or patent leather clutch…
Anonymous
The second dress is ugly and not black tie.
Anon NYC
B does not read black tie at all!
NY CPA
A is the right answer
– A New Yorker
Anonymous
Thank you. Having a middle of the night panic attack.
Anon
Is it the middle of the night where you are? So curious about that!
AIMS
Caveat that my experience skews a bit younger, but I would wear the shorter black dress and dial it up on accessories/styling. Black tie encouraged isn’t the same as black
tie and lots of people will be in nice c*cktail dresses and dark suits. I’d personally rather be in a black dress with my hair and makeup done up to the nines and lots of blingy accessories than in a long gown that might be a bit much. But to each her own! No one will be thinking about your dress in either version; they will be too busy thinking about their own and taking in the wedding.
Anon
This is true but her husband is wearing a tux. So definitely A.
Anon
A is better. It probably depends on your crowd, but either would be fine for the fancy black tie weddings I’ve been to in NYC, even for the ones I’ve been to thrown by some seriously wealthy people. I would have thought that people would be really stepping it up in the fashion department, and a few were, but for the most part the fashion really wasn’t that different than any other nice wedding I’ve been to. Hope you have a great time!
Anon
With “black tie optional” in MYC, I would err on the side of being overdressed versus underdressed.
Anon
My co-worker emailed me this morning to tell me she lost everything in the storm surge from Hurricane Helene. House, car, belongings, everything. I feel awful, and I cannot stop thinking about her and her family. Any ideas to help support her?
Anon
Oh, how awful. Does she have a place to stay? That might be most helpful at the moment.
Anon
This. I’ve heard of packed hotels, so just where do they go right now may be an issue.
Anon
Send a gift card so she can restock important supplies – Amazon or a grocery store?
Anon NYC
Yea if your office is the type to chip in for some gift cards I’d go that route.
Anon
Tallahassee was very lightly damaged as these things go, Publix is open at 9. Other big boxes will be open soon as well, so gift cards to any of these will be useful. No idea about WalMart in Perry, but wouldn’t count on it being open, if that’s where she lives. Hope she wasn’t in Taylor county. TaCo was a rough place to live before Buckeye left, Idalia and now Helene.
Anon
Oh no, that is awful, can you ask her if she would be comfortable with you starting an office go-fund me type of campaign? I’d also send some gift cards to something like Target so they can get essentials as I imagine they will be in hotels/long term stay apartments for a bit.
Anon
Practical advice from an emergency manager:
Once a major disaster is declared by the president, she should register with FEMA for financial assistance. There will likely be FEMA staff canvassing in her neighborhood or a Disaster Recovery Center she can go to for in-person help registering or she can register online or via phone (phone is generally recommended – it’s a real person so they can explain stuff to her). She should familiarize herself with FEMA Individual Assistance and Disaster Survivor Assistance to see what type of funding would be available but generally things like house repairs, temporary lodging, and replacement of medical devices are all available.
Before she can get $ from FEMA, she’ll need to go through insurance first. Even if she doesn’t have flood insurance and they deny everything, she’ll need that documentation.
There’s likely to be a big VOAD (volunteer organizations active in disasters) presence in the area. Different orgs will offer different assistance. The VOAD webpage will have info. Services include casework, clean outs, cleaning supplies, food drives, clothing drives, etc. This is where info about what the Red Cross, Team Rubicon, religious and charitable orgs, and other groups will be.
The state, county, and potentially local government should have info and resources too. I work in state emergency management in another region of the country, so can’t comment on specifics but I know state / county governments near me offer things like document replacement, emotional suppprt resources, assistance with utilities, debris removal, and stuff like that. In some states you can call 211 for all relevant info, but not sure if that’s relevant here.
Flood waters are dirty. Anything that cannot be properly sanitized should be discarded. No one should be exposed to flood waters more than absolutely necessary – do not wade around looking for things! Then, once the water stagnates there’s the risks of mold, disease, and vermin. She shouldn’t be staying in her house if it’s been totally flooded.
OP
Thank you so much. I will pass this along. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out.
Cat
Is she financially ok? Like if an attorney peer’s home was destroyed in a hurricane my next thought would not be “she needs Target gift cards to be able to buy food” – more so what type of moral support I could provide, like people helping to lighten her workload so she can have more time to deal with insurance.
anon
+1
I’d have all sorts of unpleasant feelings if someone took up a collection for me when I’m well compensated and well insured. If the company has budget for employee gifts, that’d be totally fine by me, though.
I’d be really grateful if my load at work was lightened, especially if it could be lighter beyond whatever immediate leave I would take. I imagine the logistics of recovery are consuming for months if not years. Some breathing room for whatever time work could reasonably provide would be much appreciated.
Anon
Same here. I’d focus on how you can help her at work, take on her workload, talk to your mutual boss about how you can all help give her the time and space to deal with things.
anonshmanon
Another workplace response: we have a catastrophic leave bank where you can donate extra PTO. Colleagues who run out of PTO for big stuff can draw from that.
Anon
Only slightly tongue in cheek: gift certificates to Waffle House, origin of the “Waffle House index” used to measure reopening.
More seriously: she doesn’t have working appliances (flood waters wreck them), so anything that helps her to eat without a fridge or a stove.
Anon
Your reply is AWFUL
I’m guessing you’ve never had your home flood It’s horrifying It’s such a long recovery It’s expensive It’s sad
Empathy much?
Anon
Actually I have. Your response is completely uncalled for.
anon
Offer to pick up some of her workload. She is going to need the time to rebuild, grieve and reset. Rebuilding a home is more than a full time job, and she will be struggling to do that while also working. Be an ally for her in work conversations- it will blow you away how insensitive many leaders and other coworkers can be during this time for her. For example, people might make this flippant comment: “Why doesn’t she just move.”
Op
How do you process or “get over” a BFF break up? I still feel sad about it.
Background: Friend and I were close friends for 3 years. Last saw her in April and we made plans to hang out and do summer stuf (she lives locally). However, since then it has been radio silence on her end. I’ve tried multiple times to make specific plans and she either won’t respond or isn’t available. On FB she seems to be having a fun summer based on tagged photos. She hasn’t made any effort to initiate plans whereas previously she would. My father in law died of mesothelioma last month (she was aware back in April that he was sick and it’s been a crazy roller coaster) and other than texting condolence message because she saw the obituary on FB, she hasn’t reached out. It has been a very challenging time for our family and I wish my “friend” was here for me, as I have been there for her previously, and it just hurts. We are both late 20s, no kids. I am married and she is dating with the intent to marry soon.
Anon
I am so sorry. This is really tough. I think the only thing that helps is time. Try not to drive yourself crazy with the “why’s,” which you may never know. Try simply to accept that this is the situation, and then time will make the hurt less and less acute.
Anon
I’m sorry. I’m also dealing with something similar – a very close friend basically just stopped putting in any effort at all and I never hear from her or see her despite my efforts. It’s so hard. If I were in your shoes, I would be SO hurt that she didn’t support you through the loss of your father and that would be the end of our friendship. To paraphrase the great Oprah, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. It’s not your fault.
Anon
It’s her husband’s father. Not OP’s father.
anon
I’m so sorry about your FIL. Sadly, this may be a sign that your friendship is changing, and this happens at this time of life. Also, you are starting to experience deaths of parents, and your husband’s loss is on the earlier side of your peers. They just can’t relate yet, sadly, and many are not able to provide the support/interest you need. And since it isn’t your parent’s passing, she may also “see” it differently.
Unfortunately, this is common in life. It hurts… a lot. At least she texted you. Honestly, I’ve seen worse from my friends when my parents died.
It can be really useful to have friends of all ages. I have gotten the most support from my women friends older than me, who have a bit more life experience and are a little less self focused. But life is busy for all.
Anon
I’m sorry you aren’t getting the support that you need. Speaking as a busy single clueless friend, I don’t know that I would have sensed your FIL being sick as a major support need for you (husband, yes, but I may not really know him) and also as a single person, I feel that my married friends lean on each other for support and aren’t looking to me now as anything but a friendly companion, if that makes sense. Navigating my new role now that they are coupled often feels like I’m butting in where I’m not needed, even if I formerly was more of a support before. Maybe I’m not making this make a lot of sense, but I don’t know if your friend is really aware other than a sense that things may have been very rough for your husband (vs very rough for you) and maybe needs an invitation back that’s more explicit (“Rochelle, I’ve been going through some THINGS and am missing your terribly. Can we plan a lunch sometime soon? And please cut me some slack if I am venting because you are the one person I can relax around and I’m just having all the feelings right now.” Something like that. If she’s like me, she may just have no clue.
Anon
I agree with this take, she also could be giving you space to deal with your family issues. I think people are far too fast to declare friendships over when they’re young like OP is. Friendships overall fare better when you give them room and realize that everyone has things going on in their lives.
anon
This is a really useful post. Thanks for being so thoughtful.
Anon
I am not sure that “I need you to sit there and listen to me vent” is an attractive invitation for a friend that already has one foot out the door.
How about “I miss you and would love to get together and catch up.”
Anon
Definitely an improvement. No red or yellow flag this way.
Numbersmouse
I disagree. This isn’t a retention strategy; it’s an attempt to clarify the status of the friendship. If she is, as 10:57 am suggested, clueless and unsure how to navigate her place in your life, being direct about what you need will give her the opportunity to either step up or step away. Both are better outcomes than being in this friendship purgatory.
Nonny
Have not heard from 13 yr friend since July 21, not even a text to ask how I am doing. I feel like she has her lifelong gp of friends and I am just contacted when none of them available. She knows that I have Stage 4 cancer and now they think I have another type of cancer as well so seeing the surgeon Tuesday for biposy or surgery to remove the tumor and I am exhausted, afraid and really need support. I decided I cannot chase someone who isnt that interested in spending time with me so I have not texted/called her since then to see if she would reach out and she hasnt except a text image of an animal with the arm of a businessperson in its mouth – I think Trump cat comments but I didnt respond. We had been through really tough times together and I was so grateful for her support and to support her. She and these friends talk terrible about others to the point that I will not go to events that the other friends attend and I caught my friend texting something mean about me to them and confronted her and she completely denied it!!! I told her when she demeans others I wonder what she says about me behind my back which she also denied so I cannot talk to her about this.I miss her but I am very angry and hurt because of how little she seems to care. Pls tell me your thoughts, I keep seeing things that say call your friend and tell her you miss her but that seems very false considering the way I am feeling. Her other friends tell her she is a boundary buster which she admits and its true, also she just lies to my face and I have accepted it but am sick and tired of her manipulation, Not knowing how long I have to live I want more positive relationships. Thanks for feedback that I can use to deal with this hurtful situation. Please help!
Anon
That advice is not for your situation. This so-called friend is not worth one moment of your thoughts. I’m sorry because I know it hurts to lose a friend, and it sounds like you need one right now, but this person is not a net positive for you in any way.
anon
+1
Totally agree. Noony – I’m so sorry to hear about your diagnoses. Your “friend” is a loser, and is clearly not supportive in the way you need. And sounds like she must be young and not a very nice person.
I hope you taking advantage of online support groups for young women with cancer or your specific cancer type. Great place to vent. Not with superficial fake friends like your 13yr “friend”.
Nonny
Thank you for your kind words/support! Actually she is 66 and I am 70 but I lived a very scary childhood where I never dared to assert myself so still struggling to deal with conflict in relationships. I am looking for a weekly support group and have received wonderful help and information from A Breath of Hope Lung Foundation who gives education, rides to appts and companionship program. I am naming them here in cause anyone who reads this is a patient or caregiver. Again, thankyou so much!
Nonny
Thank you so much for your support!
Nonny
Thank you !!!!
Ugh
Thanks Bot!
Anon
For those of you caring for parents or other elderly relatives with terminal but not immediate diseases, such as Alzheimer’s, what are you doing for cancer screenings (colonoscopies, mammograms?) I am caring for a relative who is 74, well past the age of Pap tests being recommended, and she’s almost to age 76 when colonoscopies aren’t routinely recommended (and that’s all before taking her Alzheimer’s into account), but providers seem to be blindly recommending more testing. There is some ethical debate about this but it seems to me that it’s pretty clear you don’t test someone age 74 for slow-growing cancer because the risks (especially from colonoscopy) are increasing while the benefits to her are decreasing. What are you doing?
Anon
We don’t do screenings like that – it’s pretty crazy to me that a doctor is pushing them
Anon
+1.
PolyD
If you want to screen for colon cancer, I think ColoGuard is recommended for people over the age of 70-something anyway. I personally find mammograms to be pretty easy, so maybe those would be easier to continue doing? But probably not every year.
But another question to ask is, if cancer is found, would you put a person with Alzheimer’s through treatment? I feel like if the answer is no, palliative care only, it might not be as crucial to do screenings to find any cancer earlier. But it really depends on the elderly person and what you think they might want.
My parents do not have dementia, are in decent shape at 80 and 85, but I think if either of them found out they had cancer they’d probably want to do only minimal treatment and prioritize quality of life over quantity.
Anon
Of course that’s a big part of it. Regardless of whether the test is easy or not, why go on a fishing expedition when the person’s lifespan is already grossly limited by another terminal disease? To worsen that remaining time with chemotherapy and a bowel resection?
Anon
I think it’s a little different if someone has trouble communicating pain (some cancer treatments are palliative), but I would still want the safer, less invasive tests even if they’re less sensitive.
anon
Unfortunately a cologuard test is unhelpful. It doesn’t tell you that you have cancer. Just that you need a colonoscopy.
For an elderly relative with progressive dementia you wait until your loved one is having difficult eating or abdominal pain or change of bowel habits, and the doctor will decide at that time if imaging of some sort is useful to try to offer relief/treatment. If a cancer is found at that time, then palliative treatments can begin.
You can also receive palliative care/hospice care for the diagnosis of dementia!
anon
I absolutely would not be doing screening that does not follow guidelines per age.
No way would I put my parent with Alzheimer’s electively under anesthesia for a colonoscopy. They may wake up in worse shape, losing the last bit of memory ability they have. Anesthesia is problematic as we get older, and if you have dementia as well, it can have even more complications.
Honestly, I would want to save them the discomfort of a mammogram too.
In fact, I have seen enough complications of doing procedures and work-up for cancers in elderly folks who have diseases like Alzheimer’s that now I am going to explicitly tell my family NOT to do this for me, if I am not able to make decisions for myself due to cognitive loss.
If my parent was only with mild Alzheimer’s and was living independently then it may be a different story and I may even discuss it with them. This is also a great question to ask the Neurology clinic what they typically recommend. They likely have a thoughtful opinion.
Nesprin
+1 fasting a person with Alzheimers for 2 days is an awful idea. Every time my mother needed to fast/not drink overnight for a procedure she came home with a UTI and demented that much faster.
anon
Personally, in those circumstances, I would only want interventions that improve quality of life, not length of life (especially if quality of life goes down for a time due to treatment). I would ask the physician how the screening and possible follow-on treatment would help the patient’s quality of life and decide from there.
Anonymous
My husband’s a GI and my grandmother has dementia and we had a similar issue where her PCP was recommending screenings that were no longer recommended. My husband was adamant that she should no longer be screened. We switched her to a gerontologist (we live in the NYC area and are lucky to have them here) – a PCP for people 65+. The gerontologist has made huge improvements in her quality of life – they made changes to her maintenance medications (in consultation with her other specialists) that actually improved her memory a bit. Highly recommend if that’s an option.
anon
A Geriatric PCP is an excellent idea for older adults. That was a great decision.
Anon
If a procedure is a money maker for a hospital system or clinic, I wonder whether they’re just pressured by admin to recommend it? I’ve had a doctor recommend an expensive and probably unnecessary diagnostic while shaking her head “no” before. I declined and she seemed relieved!
Anon
I have a parent with no memory issues (yet) but chronic kidney disease that no one wants to progress to dialysis. Mid-80s. Kidney doctor, dentist visits, hearing aids, eye doctor. No colonoscopies any more due to age.
Anon
I have a local relative with early on-set dementia (they’re only 62, projected life expectancy is already less than 5 years). They’re PCP is not pushing for any extra testing on any front. I would consider finding another PCP or just declining.
Anon
My 80 yo mom is mostly healthy but is very gentle, quite scatterbrained, and not very savvy. (She’s always been like this, but it’s probably increased with age.) I am fully involved in her care – I choose her Medicare Advantage plan based on the next year’s upcoming needs, I go to her PCP appts, I make the specialist appts, make sure she does the labs at the local Quest, etc. I’m the one driving her care and advocating for her, and she’s legally mentally competent! Can you imagine how I’d be if she were disadvantaged in some way? No way in heck am I letting her/making her do testing or take a medication or anything else that doesn’t directly benefit her – now or if her health declines. The American healthcare system is a giant complicated wreck – take as strong a stand as is necessary to put your relative’s best interests first.
Anonymous
My 83-year old grandmother with dementia is not getting any sort of testing like this. Even if it was in the guidelines, which it’s not, an invasive medical procedure/hospital visit is minimally emotionally hard on her (and sometimes physically). We want to make her life as gentle as possible at this point.
Anon
There’s an ethical issue of doing difficult screenings on a patient with limited mental capacity.
Then there is the issue of treatment. Many times, with Alzheimer’s, it’s best to let nature take its course.
That said, cancer is extremely painful and knowing to give palliative care (pain relief) would be helpful.
Nesprin
For a 75+ year old with Alzheimer’s? Absolutely no to preventative screenings for cancer. If my mother (who had Alzheimers) had had a colon cancer, we still would not have given her chemo or surgery, so there was no point in screening for that cancer in the first place.
The logic to my mind is to only do a test or medical procedure, if the test looks for something that we would treat to improve quality of life instead of length of life, where the treatment would not be so burdensome as to reduce quality of life. So yes to flu shots, yes to UTI screens, but absolutely no to colonoscopies.
raises
If you’re staying in the same role with the same responsibilities, what percentage of an annual raise do you expect?
Anecdata
I think of 2-3% as typical
anon
Agree- 2-3% is typical though I’ve come to see the wisdom of millennial job hopping to reset salary. If inflation is above 2-3% you’re effectively paid less each year, while at the same time becoming more efficient at your job.
Anon
ideally a cost of living adjustment, but companies haven’t been doing that at pace with inflation lately. Think like 3%
Anon
In higher ed we’re lucky to get 2-3%
Anon
My org doesn’t do them, we only get “merit” increases which don’t even keep up with inflation :) Yes this is a sarcastic smiley :)
Anon
Nothing
Anon88
Here’s something silly for a Friday– has anyone else noticed the r eddit trend of asking chatgpt to roast a subr eddit? Well, I asked it to roast us (aka “roast the corpore tte dot com comment section”). Here are the highlights:
“Corpore tte’s comment section can feel like a blend of a high-stakes legal debate and a lifestyle reality show, where commenters effortlessly swing from deep discussions about corporate culture to niche obsessions with ankle pants and pantyhose.
One minute, someone’s explaining the finer points of partnership at a BigLaw firm, and the next, there’s a passionate dissertation on whether peep-toe heels are appropriate for the boardroom. Is there really that much existential dread about showing a little toe cleavage?
It’s like scrolling through a group therapy session for highly educated professionals, with equal parts helpful advice and “I can’t believe we’re having this conversation.” Of course, there’s always that one commenter who swoops in with a nuclear-level hot take on work/life balance that makes you wonder if they’ve ever experienced joy.
In short, the comment section is a delightful mess of Type-A personalities offering Type-A solutions to Type-A problems–where no one is wrong, and yet, somehow, everyone is.”
Anonymous
I’m so confused by people who think chatgpt is amusing.
Anon
Are you the commenter who has never experienced joy?
Anon
Irony is dead.
Anon
I agree. I didn’t think these were funny on r*dit either.
Anonymous
This is AI’s finest work 10/10, no notes.
Anon
100%. Also this line ‘Type-A personalities offering Type-A solutions to Type-A problems–where no one is wrong, and yet, somehow, everyone is’ basically sums up consulting too doesn’t it?
Anon
That was the coup de grace! We are all dead now.
anon
Honestly this would be a great tagline for this place!
NY CPA
+1000
PolyD
That was pretty funny.
anon
This made me laugh, and I often think these roasts are kinda ridiculous.
Longtime reader
Absolutely
Anon
This is hilarious. “I can’t believe we’re having this conversation” is something that goes through my mind regularly when reading here.
Anon
Well, it missed a couple things, but what it did capture it captured perfectly.
anon
This is fantastic. I am laughing.
Anon
Please ask it to comment on the quality of marriage advice here.
Anon.
I would love to read that!
Anonymous
So good!
Anon.
This is too funny, thanks for sharing!
I think ChatGPT forgot to include the discussion about professional water bottles and button-up shirts, lol…
For the curly hair people in this forum, someone did this for Reddit’s curly hair forum and it made me spit out my coffee. https://www.reddit.com/r/curlyhair/comments/1fkxdj2/i_asked_chatgpt_to_roast_rcurlyhair/
Anon
Hahaha. I’m a mere wavy in a houseful of curlies and I felt that hard.
Anon
Spot on!
Anon
I’m scared of the robots now, this is spot on!! Especially “Of course, there’s always that one commenter who swoops in with a nuclear-level hot take on work/life balance that makes you wonder if they’ve ever experienced joy.“
Anon
That’s a work of art.
Anon
I freaking hate people asking Chat GPT random stuff. It is a MASSIVE WASTE OF ENERGY at a time when our resources are already in short supply. Microsoft is reopening Three Mile Island to supply energy for AI. My goodness, why are we doing this to ourselves???
Anon
I wouldn’t hand wring over random individuals using it for the useless entertainment that it’s actually good for. When they try to pass laws regulating the energy waste, we’re not going to rise up and oppose regulation because we can’t generate roasts and parodies. It’s corporate adoption that is the serious issue right now, e.g.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/24/health/ai-patient-messages-mychart.html
Anonymous
I wonder if this dress is nice thick cotton like the original from 94
Anon
It’s only legit if it stands on its own. Literally.
Anon
I would LOVE if I could find a current version of the H&M sleeveless polo dress I had in the early 2000s. It was a super thick cotton pique but cut close to the body with a tiny bit of stretch and ended just above the knee. It was very sexy tennis core and I wore it to death in the summer.
Alex Mack
I bought a 3/4 sleeve, gray and black striped t-shirt dress from Old Navy about 10 years ago and I wore that thing to DEATH.
Anonymous
I am going to buy this dress and will report back. I bought my toddler some things from this line and they are really nice, thick cotton – I regularly buy toddler clothes there and the 94 reissue is meaningfully nicer than the typical things I buy there. They actually re-issued an exact outfit my brother wore all the time when he was a toddler, including for his school pictures at nursery school, so I snatched it up in a moment of nostalgia.
Pep
You need to get a pic of your toddler in this outfit and send it to your brother!
Catie
I want to create a 2025 BINGO card for my friends as a gift for holidays this year. Some have kids, some don’t most have professional/FT jobs, some don’t. I’m thinking positive or funny things like;
– Thoughtful conversation with someone you didn’t expect;
– heard a funny joke;
– Re-watched a 90s movie;
Help me think of more?
Anon
Spotted a trend from your own childhood on the Kids?
NaoNao
Holiday specific:
Had a comfort food
Ate leftovers
Mumbled way through a Christmas Carol’s second/third lesser-known verse
Threw a snowball
Attended midnight mass
Lit a special candle
Got rid of all the glitter from cards and wrappings (bonus!)
Anon
Heard yourself saying a phrase your parents used regularly.
Cat
-“I’m turning into my mother” surprise moment
-went to Target and only bought what was on the list
-filled the tank and the total ended in .00
Pippa
Walk barefoot in the grass
Walk in the rain
Sit in the moonlight just listening to nighttime sounds
Skip stones in a pond or lake
Play Pooh sticks
Gather fallen tree leaves on a walk and identify the species when you get home
Yes, I am trying to be outside more since retiring.
Anony
-Best restaurant you went to in the last X days/weeks/months
-favorite new item purchased /favorite gift just received OR favorite gift received ever/from childhood
Anonymous
Heard «Last Christmas» playing and smiled
Set out candles
Had some gluhwein
Anon
Learned a new skill.
Tried a new recipe.
Baked bread.
anon
Nothing to add but I love this idea!
Anon
Found yourself singing along to a song that symbolized your subversive youth at the grocery store.
IL
Saw a good movie at the movie theater
Tried a new flavor of ice cream
Saw a brilliant sunset
Essential in Texas
Will you share the file so I can copy you and print it??! This is a FANTASTIC idea!
Friday fun
Since it’s Friday, and inspired by the Rancho Gordo beans post a few weeks ago, can we have a thread of niche interests and delights? Whatever is cheering you up at the moment?
I can start: I somehow wound up on our state treasurer’s listserv, and it turns out he sends the most delightful emails. He usually starts with some family anecdote (earlier this summer it was about his grandmother winning a tractor pull contest – with pictures), and manages to relate it to actual state treasurer issues in a really smooth way. I got my mother in on it and now we joke about how he finds the time to send out these emails so often when he’s got a couple of one year old twins at home. It just feels nice to have a sense of the person behind the official.
Anonymous
Heading out to leaf peep next week. Fresh cider.
Anonymous
Jeff Jackson (running in NC) sounds out emails like that. They’re very newsy with interesting insight, and definitely not like your typical political emails.
Anon
I don’t live in N.C., but so wish I did so I could vote for him!
Anon.
I truly enjoy the Feng Shui room makeover guy on Insta called DearModern.
And since I’m interested in all things royal, I read the Courtjeweller blog a lot!
Anon
What state? I’m interested in that…
OP
Illinois – if you go to the main page, there’s a link to sign up at the bottom. And here’s the page with links to past newsletters: https://www.illinoistreasurer.gov/Office_of_the_Treasurer/Media_Center/Newsletters
Anon
Thanks!
AIMS
The National Park Service Twitter is a delight.
Anon.
As is their Insta. I also enjoy TSA’s social media – so funny.
Anon
I’m not on twitter but really enoying their IG. So funny. Whomever runs that needs a raise. I also love @subparparks, where they post negative reviews people have left about National Parks.
Anon.
I also check Flightradar24 a lot – interesting to see what flights many people track right now.
Anon
I am a knitter who participates in the Stephen West MKAL every fall & in fact just finished Aurora Cabin from the winter 2022/2023 Hiberknitalong. I participate in the Facebook group, not the Ravelry one, because that one is too much for me. But we had some good fights last year about a design element ….
I barely feel like what I wrote above was in English, but those who know will know.
Anon
His patterns are not really my style and KALs are also not my jam but this fellow knitter and Raveler says hi!
Anon
I appear to now be a process knitter and not a product knitter. I am never going to wear any of these shawls regularly but I’ve enjoyed the challenge of making them.
Anon
I so wish you were my gift giving friend.
Anonymous
I enjoy fancy chocolate truffles but not single origin, dark chocolate bars. I am currently waiting with bated breath to be able to order the Soma Chocolate Advent Calendar (Canadian shipping). Bon Bon Bon is also delightful if they ever expand out of Detroit.
Anon
Can someone please tell my husband to stop squeezing the bar soap like it’s clay day in art class???
Anonymous
We just have our own bars of soap. I feel the pain though. He still sometimes steals my soap (we also prefer different scents so it’s doubly irritating)
Anonymous
Ha! Time for body wash? That seems hard to maul.
Anonymous
Get him a silicone body scrubber. Then there is no need to squeeze the soap at all. And I’d definitely be using a separate bar from him.
Anon
Marriage is no excuse for the intimacy of shared soap. I can barely share a tube of toothpaste with my husband of 27 years.
PolyD
Marriage is no excuse for the intimacy of shared soap. – I feel like this should be embroidered on a throw pillow.
Anon NYC
I don’t think twice about the shared tooth paste and now I’m kind of thinking about our shared soap….
Anon
I often wish my husband had his own bathroom but I hadn’t thought about the shared soap!
Anon
LOL to your first line. Epic.
Dress
I will post the link separately but I got a black midi dress from Theory and am curious if it’s work appropriate. My husband says it looks funereal and is too much fabric. I think it reads quite dressy and could probably stand to be shortened about 3” to get it to look like it does on the model (even though I’m 5’9”), but it seems quite business like to me. It’s a very nice dress so I’m tempted to take it to my tailor if I can get it for a great price.
OP
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/flare-a-line-dress/7859291?color=BLACK&size=6&country=US¤cy=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=seo_shopping&utm_channel=low_nd_seo_shopping&srsltid=AfmBOooY7PPkUq-8WJGdw5qX7QGuO7R2YYxl79L_23_jSH3-j48iy6tdiPU
Anon
That dress would be 100% fine in my NYC big law office.
Anon
It’s fine but pretty plain. Like Amish plain. Maybe it’s the neckline that isn’t doing it for me. I agree with your husband that it’s a lot of fabric.
Anon
I love Theory for work attire, so I anticipated disagreeing with your husband, but I actually don’t love this one! Agree with the concern that it looks like it is wearing the model here (so it’s not a you issue – it is a dress issue). I had a similar breakup with a gorgeous emerald dress from Anthro that just made me look like a column.
Cat
I tried on a similar one with cap sleeves and returned it because it was such a wall of black and was “wearing me” as opposed to the other way around, but it’s not per se work-inappropriate!
OP
Yes maybe that’s the problem. Black isn’t my best color (I’m a summer), and I’m also very pale. But I work in law so having a good black dress is kind of a necessity. I usually go with navy but I need a little variety.
Anon
https://outlet.theory.com/long-sleeve-sheath-dress-in-sevona-stretch-wool/black/192648206231.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr9m3BhDHARIsANut04YxR-_XeyXv46LOWdpLDiB-HRrvZiVSHm0ay_dYZnjzONdZD-0LzhsaAmGGEALw_wcB&utm_campaign=shopping_google_conversion_na_pmax_na_us_outlet-dresses-and-jumpsuits&utm_medium=pla&utm_source=google
https://www.theory.com/flared-dress-in-crepe/black/192648780373.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr9m3BhDHARIsANut04aCGPgJsbHR9m0uQG5qyx-s4COVT00TrZMvY_KUbadcufMOT42s0yQaAofvEALw_wcB&utm_campaign=shopping_google_conversion_prospecting_pmax_na_us_tier1&utm_medium=pla&utm_source=google (with pretty shrug)
https://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/theory-varetta-admiral-crepe-sheath-dress-prod192300191?pimId=401067569132&utm_source=google_shopping&ecid=NMCS_GL_NC&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr9m3BhDHARIsANut04ZVspWZz8CQHL4cRFaZQVJ1hHAKSAnyWhsNVSC6CcI6S3bco5sGZzIaArI1EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Moose
My favorite way to ‘break up’ a crew necked wall of black like this is by adding a long pendent necklace. Adds essentially an illusion v neck.
Anonymous
You husband is an idiot this is totally work appropriate. Stop asking his opinion on clothes.
OP
My husband is usually pretty good about this stuff and he typically gives helpful feedback, but obviously he’s not a woman in law so that’s why I asked here!
Anon
Perhaps the language was wrong, but he’s got a good eye to steer OP away from this frumpy thing.
OP
Haha, point taken. Thats why I asked! I tend to lean a bit Barbara Bush with my style choices.
Anon
lol! He’s got your back on this girl, find something else.
anon
I agree with folks here- it’s definitely appropriate but not doing you any favors!
anon
There’s something about it that doesn’t really read office to me, but with a jacket and work shoes, it would probably be fine? I also am getting funeral vibes.
Senior Attorney
I have a dress that is similar to this and I really only wear it to funerals.
Anonymous
I used to wear an older version of this exact dress (shorter hemline) to my business formal NYC big law office, so it seems fine to me!
OP
Maybe I will get it hemmed. The length is definitely odd.
Anon
Pre-covid, I had a similar dress that I wore to the office all the time.
Anon
My take is it’s only work appropriate and kinda ugly. There’s not much style to it, it looks like a Lands End dress. I regularly pay $400ish for dresses but wouldn’t for that one.
Anon
This. I was thinking Old Navy dress. I bet this one has princess seams while LE or ON wouldn’t, but it doesn’t inherently read quality.
Anon
This seems so expensive for a basic black dress.
Anon
I’m going to be the voice of dissent and say that I really like it, including the length, it looks classy and reminds me of something Megan Markle would have worn in her royal days.
Anon
I responded earlier that it would be fine in an office, but I like it too!
Anonymous
It looks like a high school choir dress.
Anon
If your husband thinks it’s too funereal, then he should only wear it to funerals.
Anon
Except he’s not wrong….
Anon
I often wonder if these opinions are sort of regional. This dress would be fine in any business formal workplace in Chicago or New York.
Anon
I have a formal workplace for some things and can’t imagine wearing that when I wanted to feel good or powerful. It’s too flouncy to be a big meeting day dress, too frumpy to look good for something less of a big deal. It wouldn’t violate any dress codes but why would you want to wear it unless you’re going to a funeral?
smurf
I don’t think it’s workplace in-appropriate but it does look like a sad Lands End funeral dress to me.. I think you can do better!
No Bowl
My office is doing a bowling outing. I don’t know who comes up with these ideas but I don’t bowl. I could show up and socialize for a bit if that makes sense, or would it be really awkward and better to just not go? Please don’t try to convince me to bowl, there is nothing you can say to change my mind on that.
Anonymous
Yeah you can turn up and just hang out. I am an awful bowler but I lean into it and make fun of myself for being so bad. I think that makes me a good sport and I almost always have someone telling me they love my confidence and think it’s fun I’m not competitive.
Anonymous
(Just adding I’m a bad bowler for medical reasons due to a joint condition, so it’s not like I have the option to improve)
Anonymous
I also do not bowl and am not open to discussion on that point. If this is like the only office outing, I would go and have a drink and leave early. If you office socializes regularly I’d just skip this one.
Anon
I won’t try to change your mind. I’m sure you have a very good reason. But events like bowling are picked because anyone can do it (barring a very good reason) and no one is expected to be good. In fact it’s socially better if you aren’t.
No Bowl
Anyone cannot do it. Bowling assumes a level of physical ability that not everyone has. For example people with injuries or disabilities.
Anon
The vast majority of people can bowl badly, which is why it’s equally popular for child birthday parties and elderly social groups. If you yourself have a valid reason for not being able to, no one is going to question that, but planning a bowling outing is generally pretty inclusive of most people – especially since there are seats to observe, bathrooms, no extended mandatory physical activity (like hiking up a hill to a restaurant), etc. Try to relax and enjoy the event.
Anon
Co-sign to most people can bowl badly. And it’s not like tennis, where you have to be matched in skill for it to work.
Also, most people can hang out and eat / drink, so it is really, really intended to be easy while being an activity. Eat a chicken wing and say something like “this aggravates my back but I love watching you all do it.” It’s not hard to be a good sport.
Anon
It’s amazing the assumptions people make about what’s inclusive and accessible. I have no business even attempting to pick up a bowling ball. If should be enough to show up, grab a drink, and cheer for people.
Anon
It’s not though, at least here. Between gutter guards and the rampy things, if 4-5 year olds can do this with no preparation at a party for an hour, it is fine for most adults. Also, you can just watch. I routinely spectate at bowling events or tag a designated bowler for me when my shoulder acts up.
anonshmanon
I’ve never seen gutter guards employed when bowling with an adult group though.
Anonymous
Seriously ableist thread. You don’t know who has a neck injury, is nursing a shoulder injury or has carpal tunnel. Just to name a few things.
Anon
So what do you want to do then? Not go and blast an email to your office about how ableist it is because some people have carpal tunnel? Bring a civil rights lawsuit? Seriously, go or don’t go, who cares at this point. But lighten WAY up.
Anon
Yeah, bowling can be quite high risk for people with joint issues. My spouse has cartilage degeneration in his knees. His doctor forbids him from bowling because the risk of tearing things in a life-altering way is too high. He does tons of other things that the doctor approves of, like hiking, playing hockey, and running, so having bowling called out while those are allowed was eye-opening.
BeenThatGuy
Honestly, I’m a super fit, active woman. I got to OrangeTheory 5 days a week and generally place 1st in my age group when we do benchmark workouts. But, I have Rheumatoid Arthritis. It’s very well controlled with medicine and diet but blowing debilitates my hands. If I do it, my hands swell and they hurt for days after.
That said, I’d go to the work event to socialize for an hour and leave.
Anon
My work recently did a bowling outing and I was very against it at first, but it ended up being a lot of fun! At least go to socialize.
Anon
If you want to show up and be the stick-in-the-mud about a silly outing that most people suck at, you definitely can, but it will make you look weird. Just go into it knowing that’s a risk if it’s what you want to do. Be prepared for awkward moments as you make the teams uneven or as the office clown tries to grab your arm and insist you go up. If it were me, I’d play a round, no question.
No Bowl
I specifically said don’t try to convince me to play but there is always someone. Not that I should have to explain myself, but I not only hate bowling but also have a medical reason for not participating.
Anon
I’m not trying to convince you. I’m saying do what you want to do and be aware of the risks.
Anonymous
Yeah people like this are why I wouldn’t even go. Idk why anyone cares that I don’t bowl but they aren’t entitled to an explanation and it’s not because I’m bad at it.
anon
My office has done this. It’s totally fine to go and just socialize. (I am a TERRIBLE bowler, easily the worst on my team, and it’s actually been kinda fun.)
Anon
I am a terrible bowler and asked them to put up the bumpers when I went. It was a big laugh from everybody including me. It was actually pretty fun.
Anonymous
People who takes themselves too seriously and can’t laugh at themselves make me so uncomfortable. Bumpers for all!
Anon
+1.
Anon
I faked the audacity to brag about winning even though I was the only one using bumpers. I still laugh when I think about it. It was ridiculous.
Anon
Congratulations! Maybe bumper bowling is its own sport, and you won that one!
Anonymous
I think the idea of a bowling outing is appealing because like 95% of the world is really crappy at it. That said, there’s definitely nothing that says you need to play. Just go, grab a beer or soft drink, and hang out for a bit. Cheer/jeer at the people doing it. And bow out after a game.
Anon
Agree with this – hanging out for a bit but not actually bowling is absolutely fine and expected in my experience. The first bowling event I ever attended was very fun when I absolutely expected to hate it, and one of my favorite memories is everyone ruthlessly making fun of my then boyfriend, now husband, for being too good at it and sticking his leg out behind and to the side like the professionals do. If you think you’ll be under pressure to participate, ask yourself if most of your colleagues seem like the type to have regular bowling nights or are the type that show up once every five years and amiably throw gutter balls.
Cerulean
I agree. I avoid work golf events because I would feel embarrassed about my lack of skills, but I feel like nobody takes bowling that seriously and I feel zero shame about my lack of bowling skills. That said, it’s a very chill game and I don’t think anybody would care if you just say you want to just hang out and talk and not bowl.
Anon
My office did the same outing, and I left pretty quickly. I don’t know how to bowl, other than a few rock and bowl sessions as a kid, and I’m not interested in learning in my 40s. The enthusiastic bowlers seemed happy as others left!
No Bowl
Why do offices do this? No one is excited about this and there are lots of people who can’t participate for physical reasons.
Anon
You sound kind of depressed. It’s not true that “no one” is excited about these things – my office does plenty of outings and they’re always well-attended, including for things like mini golf. If you don’t want to go, don’t go, but it may be worth considering your views on this and whether there is anything clouding your ability to enjoy things most other people either enjoy or won’t get worked up about.
No Bowl
LOL. Several of my colleagues have commented on not wanting to participate, and I think it’s fair to say many people do not “enjoy” forced fun with their colleagues. It is quite a stretch to say I seemed depressed because I don’t want to go bowling as a work event.
Another Anon
Ok, you may not be depressed but you need to lighten up. Yes, you can go. No, you don’t need to bowl. It’s not ableist to have an activity that most people can participate in. I don’t know what people expect of their employers. They are trying to have a team building activity. This is a very normal things for employers to do.
Anon
My office does this and everyone has fun, there’s zero pressure to play and a handful of people don’t. Everyone gets there’s a number of reasons why people wouldn’t. Bowling is a backdrop for pizza, beer and conversation. It’s not like they’re asking you to play in a league. It’s a way to casually get to know people. Stop focusing on the bowling part and focus on making some personal connections with your colleagues.
Anon
Exactly. Stop being so bitter and grumpy about it.
No Bowl
I am bitter and grumpy that my simple question of whether or not I could go and NOT bowl was turned into a fight about whether I should bowl, not about the event itself.
Anonymous
No Bowl, you clearly want everyone to jump in and confirm that you are correct that this is a stupid event and your office is stupid and how dare they. And I think you’re seeing that at least a simple majority of us are basically cool with bowling as an office activity. If you ask a question like this, you have to accept that you may not get the answer you want. Although you have also overwhelming heard that it’s fine to go and observe. That said, if you were my coworker and this cranky-pants, I’d rather you not go.
Anon
Agreed. It seems like you want everyone to agree that it’s horrific that your office planned this event but most people don’t think so. Just move on.
Anon
I will add that one of the reasons bowling is popular for offices is it forces you in and out of conversations as people take turns. If you aren’t going to participate, which is totally fine, make sure you’re not keeping someone stuck talking to you the whole time.
anonshmanon
before your 10:58AM comment, there were 5 separate responses (direct response to your post, not counting any nested conversations) that said you can go and socialize and not bowl.
Anon
I’m with 11:01. Perfectly summarized.
Anon
There’s no team building activity that everyone likes or can participate in. The issue isn’t the activity but some people’s discomfort with less than full participation. Those people however are wrong; it’s fine to go and not pick up a ball so long as you have social skills and can be friendly and enthusiastic and not act put out the whole time.
anon
A few partners in my old law firm consistently suggested bowling as an alternative to our customary eating/drinking outings. They wanted something that would be more engaging for those who didn’t drink. I do see the problem with assuming everyone is physically able to bowl (my mom has an invisible disability that would prevent her from doing it comfortably, even with bumpers), but it’s probably just an honest, good faith attempt to engage people in an activity that most people find unobjectionable or even fun.
Anon
We have non-management employees pick our team building activities and more often than not they choose bowling.
Anon
+1. We moved to places like this after complaints about being a bar that were too alcohol focused. This is an attempt to be inclusive. There are lots of options. If you don’t want to bowl, I bet there is an arcade. Go and get a colleague to play a game with you. You can have a soft drink, and skip drinking alcohol.
Susy
Idk I love bowling and would be excited if my office did this. I wouldn’t care or judge if someone couldn’t bowl though. I’d just talk to them while not playing
Anon
Unless there’s a known reason why you wouldn’t, like a recent surgery or physical disability, your coworkers are most likely going to encourage you to bowl. Then you will be forced into an awkward position of appearing like a weird bowling-hater or disclosing something you don’t want to talk about. If you don’t want to deal with that, I wouldn’t go.
Anon
“It gives me back problems” is perfectly acceptable in the face of any pressure and 99.99999% of people who work in a modern workplace will accept that and not pressure you further. Declining to go makes you a real stick in the mud. I’ve never been to a work booking event where at least a few people weren’t bowling and none of them were proving their health records to sit with a beer and chat.
Anon
Sorry, I’m unable to bowl, I’m just here to cheer everyone one and socialize. Super easy solution.
Anon
Yeah, but look at the other comments. Some people cannot take no for an answer and will push and push – hopefully she has more laid back colleagues. :)
Anon
A working professional should be able to say no and mean it. Some people are pushy in every arena of life. By the time you’re OPs age (she/he says 30s) you would have experienced it often enough that you can deal with it. And OP does not strike me as someone who is uncomfortable saying no.
Anon
What comments are you seeing saying that? I’ve read the whole thread and see zero to that effect.
Anon
Disagree. My work used to do these events at a Top Golf. I am a very good golfer, but I didn’t usually golf at these things. I went for one hour, chatted with colleagues then left. Literally no one pushed back on it?
Anon
All of this is so funny to me because I’m the most unathletic person who ever lived – I can’t throw or catch a ball to save my life; I doubt I could run a 12 minute mile if someone held a gun to my head; I was always picked last in gym and eliminated first in things like dodgeball – and bowling is the ONE sport I can do. Well, bowling and minigolf.
Anon
I am curious how these response break down by age. I am in my 50s, a terrible bowler, but I would enjoy hanging out with colleagues and having some pizza and beer and laughing about how terrible we are, and then staring in astonishment as the person most likely to be perceived as unathletic turns out to be a ringer.
I feel like people younger than me are much more bitter are about work socializing than my generation was. This is just my perception, I could be totally wrong.
Anonymous
It’s not about being terrible. I personally don’t mind at all being bad. I mind that it messes up my wrist for weeks, and I mind annoying people who won’t accept a cheerful “no thanks I don’t bowl but happy to hang out!”
Anon
50s with osteoarthritis in my fingers and I’d go, not bowl, and have a great time. Bitter with baggage people just ruin everything. Being a good sport costs you nothing and gets you everything. Maybe No Bowl should try an attitude adjustment before she throws around “ableist” again.
Anonymous
The ableist claims absolutely sent me! I have a joint condition (plus a real disability too), I do the swing between the knees-child method bowl with the smallest ball, if it’s uncomfy I stop.
Anon
Can you not understand that some people can’t even start? Why is it so important that everyone try?
Anon
I need full shoulder replacement on my right shoulder and I’d still go and have a good time. I may not even pick up a ball, or maybe do one throw with a kids ball, but I wouldn’t stand around disapproving. OP should just stay home and be miserable, which sounds like her normal state.
Anon
So something really funny to me, that I’ve literally never thought about before, is that I don’t think I can bowl. I’ve had extensive pelvic floor reconstructive surgery. I look like a young, healthy person, but lifting a heavy ball on one side of the body and throwing it? Not great for the pelvic floor. It could be fine, but it could also have serious and potentially life long side effects for me. I don’t think I’d risk my surgery for something silly like bowling. If my coworkers were to harangue me about this, I guess I’d find it ableist! It would also get real awkward when I launch into a soliloquy about my vagina and it’s traumatic history.
Susy
I’m in my 30s and would be pleased to go bowling with my colleagues because they are nice people and I like bowling. But I do think I can see what you’re saying. It seems more accepted by older people that work socializing will just happen and is a fact of life. Although my mom is in her late 50s and despises it. lol!
Anon
You can go and just socialize if you have already generally outed yourself with a health condition which would keep you from bowling – bad back, bad wrists, something like that. If you are trying to keep your health condition private, it will be much more difficult because folks will try to solve the “don’t want to bowl” problem for you rather than considering that possibly – the balls are too heavy for your chronic back pain (wrist pain, knee pain); your balance would never manage the swing, glide, and throw movement while also keeping you upright (falling in front of peers is wonderful); or that you wear specially crafted shoes and switching them for rented bowling shoes would impossible and, even if possible, would focus unwanted work peer attention and comment on ones altered limb.
Team building events are difficult to plan. We’d all make them better to attend if we’d extend grace to others at the events by not pushing food to those not eating a lot (maybe allergies, maybe cultural or religious reasons) and by not pushing compliance of each activity (not every disability is visible or disclosed to an employer because it may not be relevant to job duties).
anon
This is probably the most AAM thread I’ve ever seen here. Lol. OP, of course it’s fine to go and not bowl! I doubt people will even notice you’re not actively bowling. Or don’t go if you don’t want to. If you’re going to go and be pouty, then I think it’s in your own best interests to skip it. No offense. But realistically those are your options for this particular event.
If you’re really concerned about the choice of activities in the future, then I think you should look into joining the events committee so your voice can be heard!
Anon
I was thinking the same thing about AAM, lol. I actually like socializing with my colleagues…
Anon
SO ableist of you! /s
Anon
It sounded like the goal was to socialize with colleagues (just without personally bowling).
No Bowl
I would join but we don’t have one. I suggested other activities and so have other people but they get ignored in favor of what the big boss likes. Obviously there’s a lot of context missing here. I am fine with going and not bowling (and I will not pout), I just wanted to make sure that it was a normal thing to do. Also for those asking, I’m in my 30s, and yes, it is the millennials in my office who seem least interested in going to this event.
Anon
My old office had a departmental bowling party that was decided on by the entire department, which was 90% Millenials. They had a great time actually and got very competitive with their bowling, which also included kids’ weight balls and bumpers.
I was tasked with organizing it because as the senior person I was paying for it. I did not care if someone showed up and did not bowl, but I would say that if OP shows up and looks like she just sucked on a lemon the entire time, it probably would have been better not to attend.
anon
Sorry to hear that OP. If some of the other non-enthusiasts are going, maybe you can all go grab a drink together before or after.
anonshmanon
My hunch is that millennials and gen Z are just more comfortable expressing if they care/not care for workplace socializing, when previous generations maybe kept that to themselves and just went along with things. So the amount of people who enjoy it may be the same, but you hear complaints now which used to be invisible to you.
If your colleagues are also unenthusiastic but considering going, you could band together as the just hanging out squad, or for those who are less firmly anti-bowling, they could still be an ally when you decline, and step in if some other colleague tries to push you. “OP, come ooonnn, don’t you want to give it a go?” “OP shouldn’t be pressured to play, let’s just all have a good time!”.
Anonymous
I’m also in my 30s and late to this but I have been to a surprising number of bowling events at various work events over the years and like 50% of people bowl and 50% don’t. I can’t imagine anyone noticing or caring about you not bowling unless I’m misunderstanding the event. The events I’ve been to usually have a limited number of lanes so at any given time only a portion of people can bowl. The non-bowlers are usually eating, drinking or playing arcade games (bowling alleys near us usually have pool + arcades as well). I have bowled and also not bowled at these events.
Anon
Same, and it’s usually bumpers up for the fun crowd. This is not league bowling.
Anon
Were you all intentionally trying to make a single post that encapsulates every point of the ChatGPT roast above?
Cat
If you’d explained upfront that it was a health issue as opposed to just not wanting to, looking foolish, etc. it would have cut out a lot of the nonsense here.
Yes, go. Be able to breezily say “oh I can’t bowl because of my wrists, but happy to cheer you on” and move on with the conversation.
Nesprin
Show up, claim you need to leave early for a thing, volunteer yourself for cheering section instead of bowling, have one beer, cheer on your coworkers and leave after an hour.
Anon
OP doesn’t strike me as the type to cheer about anything, ever.
Anonymous
Ha She really does sound like a bitter Betty. Maybe they picked it specifically so she wouldn’t go and drag everyone down.
smurf
IME totally fine to show up & socialize. When my office has done this, there usually aren’t enough lanes for everyone to bowl at the same time so people bop around and rotate through. if your office is hyper-competitive, assigning teams in advance, etc. – I’d be more likely to skip. Usually there’s a handful of people who are super into it, a bunch who are bad & just having fun with it, and a group that doesn’t play but socializes, cheers on their coworkers, etc.
Anon
This is not ‘Nam. This is bowling.
Maude
This aggression will not stand, man!
Anon
Best comment of the thread!
Anonymous
Am a little over a year away from retirement and doing some serious reflection about what I would like to do. The one thing that I keep coming back to ….I’d like to spend about 6 months in the British Isles – split among England, Ireland and Scotland and a bit of Wales. Have never been; am a huge fan of all things British – from the books that I read to the TV I consume – almost all set there. I want to have enough time to really tour and visit and see all the places I’ve been dreaming about. I don’t even know where to begin to try to make something like this happen and I’m definitely not made of money. I have heard of home swapping, but can’t imagine anyone would want to swap a home where I live. Anyone have a friend or relative who has done this and do you know how they started? I think I want to make this happen.
Anonymous
I love this dream! I think you start with what sparks your imagination and try to make it work. And daydream on the national trust website under holidays, lots of adorable rentals.
Anon
You can do work away! A friend did this for cheap and spent only $5k for six months in Europe.
Anon
How? I’d drop everything and do it right now if I thought I could do it that cheaply.
ABanon
Maybe there are better programs but I see there’s a workaday dot info place that seems to be connecting people offering lodging in exchange for work. It’s tempting for sure.
ABanon
Oops, typo. That’s “workaway”
Anonymous
Does your friend by any chance have European ancestry that gave them the right to work in the EU? A short-term work visa for the UK is unlikely to be possible for OP, although they can stay up to six months as a tourist (next year a new scheme will be introduced with a small fee similar to the US ESTA).
OP – figuring out accommodation costs will be your main issue. You could look at AirBnB in a smaller northern town and hire a car to take trips. If #vanlife appeals to you at all you could look at hiring a campervan or motorhome which might work out cheaper if there’s a lot of places you want to go, although not necessarily easier, or even look into narrowboats and live and travel on the canals for six months.
anon
If it were me, I would try to do a mix of longer-term rentals of a few weeks + work aways as others have noted. You should look into a long-term car rental/lease, as most places you will want a car for independence, assuming you aren’t talking about staying solely in the cities.
This sounds like a great dream. Strongly suggest making your way to the Outer Hebrides and Orkney, amongst all the other awesome places.
Anonymous
Yes to Outer Hebrides and Orkney, where my most favorite books and TV series are set! (Vera, Shetland, Peter May books – stop me now).
Anon
Popping in out of excitement for finding another Peter May (and shetland and Vera) fan :)
Anon
Many universities rent out student housing between terms to tourists. Yes, it’s plain, but it’s also quite cheap. That could mean almost three months at a time in a central location. Get an Oyster card/senior pass for British Rail and similar for the UK.
Bed & breakfasts are different in the UK: plain, usually a room or two in someone’s house. Cheaper than the frou-frou USA versions.
Enjoy!!!
Ses
I’m in the UK and we used a popular website to get a house-sitter for 3 months while we were abroad. I’ll post the url in a reply.
No money changed hands – the benefit to us was having someone feed our fish. We posted our house details, interviewed 3 people, and chose the most suitable one.
Apparently this is a common low-cost retirement travel option. Retirees are particularly attractive as house sitters because they’re unlikely to throw ragers and they often have the life experience to be able to handle small problems if they come up.
Ses
This is what we used: https://mindahome.co.uk/
Ses
Moderation, trying again…
I’m in the UK and we used a Mindahome to get a house-sitter for 3 months while we were abroad. I’ll post the link in a reply.
No money changed hands – the benefit to us was having someone feed our fish. We posted our house details, interviewed 3 people, and chose the most suitable one.
Apparently this is a common low-cost retirement travel option. Retirees are particularly attractive as house sitters because they’re unlikely to throw ragers and they often have the life experience to be able to handle small problems if they come up.
Anon
Does anyone have a recommendation for sibling care coverage during L&D? I also would take recommendations for non-woo doulas.
I’m near Palo Alto. Sibling is under 3; the plan is currently a scheduled induction. We will have family assistance, but family will be post-surgery and can’t lift the kid, so we’d like another person to be there. Dad plans to be home for bedtimes.
Any recommendations are welcome!
Anonymous
Friends, babysitter, nice mom at day care. People are pretty willing to help for this.
Anon
Assume we have literally none of those options available locally and need to hire the help.
Anon
Not even a friend who can help? What about asking a friend or family member to come visit?
Anon
The family member who can’t lift the child is flying in to provide the help. We need to hire someone able-bodied to assist that family member. I am asking for local recommendations of people or services that people here have used in this situation, which is why I included details about the location.
Anonymous
If you want specific local names, this is a question for your local Facebook mommies group.
Anonymous
I know you’re trying to be helpful but some people really don’t have friends or family. I’ve never in my life had a friend come through for me and I no longer ask because it’s much less painful to just hire someone
Anon
And yet multiple people managed to make suggestions below :)
Anonymous
Look idk why you’re being so hostile but I’d do this for a neighbor I don’t even know. If you don’t have any friends I’m so sorry about that but it’s a reasonable suggestion.
Anon
Truly tickled by the idea that you are so big-hearted you’d do 2-3 days of free childcare for someone you “don’t even know” but also are the kind of person to think “if you don’t have any friends” is an appropriate thing to put in a post. Godspeed, sister, let’s just stop discussing.
Anon
I don’t have close friends locally either but I’d do this for any mom I’m aquatinted with, even casually. You don’t need to be besties to ask someone for this kind of help.
Anonymous
Then you need to hire help and I’m not sure what the question is. Get on care dot com and start looking
Anon
The question is for a recommendation for someone to hire. I’m sorry you’re struggling with thinking this morning, but at least it’s Friday!
Anonymous
A specific name?! Like. I did suggest a babysitter. That’s what you should find.
Anon
Thank you for your kind and constructive comments.
Anon
Yikes OP, if you want help you could try being nicer about it.
Anon
Have you ever used care dot com? I have and it turns out we couldn’t hire a single person from it despite much trying.
Anon
Sorry, realized my post was vague about that. But yeah, we’ll have to hire someone. “Community” doesn’t extend to covering multiple days of childcare in my “community,” as painful as that is to say out loud.
Anon
People here know that and are trying to make you feel bad for not having local friends. It was obvious you’re asking for recommendations for professional services and they’re being d*cks. I’m sorry!
AIMS
I don’t think it’s obvious one way or the other. But, OP, I am surprised you expect to be able to get a name and number for a sitter posted here. I would not share that with an internet stranger on a public website and I’d be pretty annoyed as a sitter if someone did that to me. Not trying to make you feel bad but I would reconsider my approach, post a burner email and maybe someone can reach out to you directly.
Anonymous
I mean, I get the OP’s situation, but the tone of the responses has been a bit of an interesting indicator as to why there are no friends who come through.
Anon
Anonymous at 11:21, please stop being a jerk. I see you and what you’re doing. It is unkind and pointless.
Anon
AIMS, happily, other posters were easily able to chime in with great local nanny agency and doula recs, which is exactly what I was looking for!
Anon
@11:21 no I agree. I am in the Bay Area and was ready to volunteer (seriously) but OP seems so pissed off about everything that I decided to delete my post before submitting.
Anon
I truly do not understand why some of you feel the need to be mean to this woman. Maybe just scroll on by?
Anon
I thought I had none of these options – no nearby family, no babysitter that could stay overnight- then I vented about the situation at work while hugely pregnant with my second, and one of my very kind coworkers volunteered to do it. My then toddler daughter had a great sleepover with my coworker and her toddler the night I went into labor.
So, socialize it. Not here. With people you know IRL, even if they’re not besties. People want to help.
Anon
I’m glad you’re hiring help. As a friend who will do a lot for my friends, providing child care is not on the list. I think regardless of your local friend situation you’re doing the right thing.
Anon
As a counterpoint, I do not think of myself as someone who enjoys toddlers who aren’t my own (and truthfully sometimes didn’t even enjoy my own!), but I would happily do this for someone I barely know. Maybe it’s because I live in a college town where almost everyone moved from far away for a job and few people have local family, but to me it seems totally normal to help a neighbor or casual acquaintance out in a situation like this.
Anon
When my kids were 4 and 2 my dh and I had a medical emergency and seriously needed help. A woman I barely knew — I mean, we had waved at one another while out in our driveways, but had never spoken, stepped in and took my kids for 2 nights. She became one of my closest mom friends and I literally cried when she moved across the country 6 years later. My now adult children remain friendly on SM with her child as a result of that sleepover.
Anon
Ugh, too bad you want a non-woo doula, since I interviewed one near Palo Alto who was SO woo that I almost fainted and to top it off, her package was $7000 with overage fees by the hour :)
That said, I have contracted a doula from Golden Gate Doula for my upcoming delivery and was pleased with the general vibe of those I interviewed. Some are too woo for me, but most were very respectful of my preferences and ideas and I’m excited about the one we ended up with. You can look into them for postpartum doula support as well.
Anon
Thank you!! I’ll check it out.
Anon
Also, yeah, the doula my friend recommended discussed the crystals and oils she brings with her in like the first five minutes. Which is great if that’s your vibe, but it’s not mine!
Anon
The one I referenced above called birth a “sexual act” and spoke of the importance of “eroticism” with my partner in early labor. No thanks.
Anon.
Ewwwww.
Anon
Man, her partners must be the worst at gardening.
(It’s a joke!)
Anon
LOL @ 12:28 as someone who has had actual great sex & who has birthed 3 babies. These things have nothing in common other than body parts involved.
Anon
What is your current daily childcare? Can you a schedule the induction for a weekday so sibling can go to daycare or have nanny help? Maybe those providers would be willing to provide extra care, or have a recommendation?
Anon
I am the current daily childcare.
Anon
+1 – the teachers at our daycare would often sit for families, especially in situations like this (new baby, parent in hospital, etc.).
Anon
+1 that teachers and other parents at daycare are your best bet. And you definitely don’t need to be close friends with them. Teachers will get paid and other moms want to help.
anon
My experience is a bit dated and all costly, but here are my thoughts:
My experience has been great with Town and Country and Stanford Park Nannies for temporary nannies. Stanford Park Nannies had slightly better fits, but sometimes doesn’t have someone. Town and Country has always had a qualified person for my needs. I’d register with both.
Sometimes the consultants at Parent’ Place know of someone good looking for work.
Blossom Birth, if it still exists, used to have doula fairs. No experience with quality.
Best wishes!
Anon
Thank you!!
anon
Two more thoughts
—if your spouse has access to back up care through work, that could be worth exploring for lower cost help either for the birth or later on when spouse returns to work. My experience and from what I’ve heard from others is that quality and reliability aren’t great around here from one of the leading national companies. But, totally fine as a helper to someone you trust.
I’d still be registered with a nanny agency in case the back up care nanny falls through, though.
—If you’re in grad student housing on campus, you could probably post flyers and find a trailing spouse who lives near you to help.
Anon
These are both fabulous ideas, thank you!
Anon
Also a little dated but my non-woo doula was Doula Deja in San Mateo. Reasonably priced and very empathetic.
Anon
My friend had a similar situation, so she flew in a close friend to provide childcare for a week.
Anon
This is the issue. My closest friends all have their own little kids they can’t leave for a week and aren’t local (we only moved here last year). So, the people who would can’t. Lots of good suggestions on professional services to bridge the gap, though!
Anon
There are also night nurse services – not 100% sure if they will do childcare for the older child but it could be worth looking into, especially if you might also want some newborn support.
Anon
I haven’t used one, but I have heard of people using sibling doulas. It may be worth looking into. You may also want to have a backup plan for your family carer, even something as simple as having them but the sibling to bed on the floor instead of lifting them into the crib. Or having a neighbor stop by to help with the necessary lifting activities. When I had my second, my plan was for my husband to go home for toddler bedtime and for myself to get out of the hospital asap. I ended up with a complication that rendered me completely unable to care for myself and baby, so my husband had to stay in the hospital with me for a few days.
Anon
And I say this because my in laws can’t lift my kids, but there were nearby older moms neighbors with grown kids who we barely know who were absolutely delighted to be asked to help for like 20 minutes to do these things.
Anon
Thank you, that’s a helpful term to Google! And older mom neighbors who would help briefly is also a good idea. I’d been thinking we need one person for the whole time, and there’s just no one here who can do that for us. The people who would fly in and do it all have health issues (two are due the same month as me!) or their own little kids. But just trying to fill smaller gaps, like an hour of park time or help getting them into their chair at dinner or whatever, would be much easier, because we do have local connections who would joyfully do that. We’ll patch something together between the professional services and the community we do have here.
Anon
If your older kid is at least 2, you might also be able to add some stuff to your house or routine to help your relatives, just in case they have to be alone. After I had my second, I had a birth injury and I was completely unable to lift my two year old and had to come up with ways to manage that by myself. So, I didn’t pick him up, but he could climb up next to me on the sofa. I couldn’t lift him into a high chair, but he could climb into a trip trap or sit at the tiny kid’s table we had. I couldn’t put him in the car seat, but he would climb in when lured with a video on my phone. Also played videos to avoid diaper change wrestling matches. Instead of the crib, he napped on the floor on a nugget cushion. It was a trying time period for me, but my son did not care and was not permanently damaged by being bribed into doing stuff by screens and occasionally sweets. You definitely want to try to schedule help to come in, but in a worst case scenario, depending on your relatives and their medical issues, it can be doable.
Anon
Thank you, Anon. Those are all great ideas/tips.
Anon
This is a new term to me! I assumed at first it was siblings who were both doulas (so one would be with the mom, one with the kid….). This makes so much more sense to me, ha!
OP, I’ve had excellent luck in a similar situation posting on local listserve (doesn’t have to be parent specific, our neighborhood has one), and was able to use a trusted nanny while the family was on vacation. This option had an unexpected benefit over a doula/nanny services — the local nanny continues to help me during times when I need extra hands, while the doulas have to be contracted for a specific family. Or, even better, do both — have a specific doula for your childbirth, but seek out local nannies who might need extra hours. There were times when I really, really didn’t want to drag a toddler to a newborn or baby appointment. As you know, the baby appointments usually end in tears bc of vaccines, and it can be really nice to just focus on getting the baby out of there (not having to also rationalize with a toddler that its time to leave).
Anon
Yeah, we’d love to find someone who can provide services before and after the birth, too! This is a really fantastic idea. Thank you!
Anon
Recommendations for a hotel in Salerno? Looking for quiet and luxurious.
Early retirement
My husband and I are struggling with weighing the extent to which we should spend our “extra” money versus saving it for early retirement. I’m wondering how others have thought through this issue. For background, we are in our late 30s and are on track to retire at 60. We max out all tax-advantaged retirement accounts that are available to us, have ample emergency and short-term savings funds, don’t carry any debt besides our low-interest mortgage, and have a comfortable but far from fancy lifestyle. We have about $5K extra a month. On one end of the extreme, we could bring our retirement age down to 56 by putting the whole amount in a taxable account and earmarking it for retirement. On the other end of the extreme, we could go on two awesome vacations a year and make an impactful donation to our favorite local charity. We realize that the sweet spot is somewhere in between there, but we’re stuck on how to make a decision. So we’ve simply been putting the whole amount towards retirement with the justification that we can cash out at any point if we want to change course and then feeling this low-grade dread that we’ll look back and regret not living our lives to their fullest when we were young and healthy. Ugh.
Anonymous
As someone who got cancer in my mid-30s really unexpectedly (healthy, average weight, no known genetic issues, no family history), I have a fully funded retirement and the rest is fun. If I make it to retirement, cool. If I don’t, I hope my kids enjoy the nest egg. But I’m not giving up living today to the fullest for a future that is not guaranteed.
Anon
This. This is the way.
Alex Mack
This is where we fall as well, even though our retirement ages are much higher than OPs. My MIL passed away at 57 and we know too many people who have died young.
OP – let yourself enjoy your money.
Anon2
Do you want to retire earlier than 60? Personally, the added quality of life benefits of using it for vacations and other bonuses every year would be worth much more than an extra 4 years of retirement.
Perhaps the sweet spot is putting $2500 into retirement and $2500 into the fun pot.
Or, throw it all in an index fund and you can pull it out as opportunities come up, with the rest hanging out until retirement.
OP
We don’t currently have a desire to retire earlier than 60, but we feel this pressure to be prepared to retire early so we have the option when the time comes. For example, we both enjoy our jobs but they are high-stress jobs so we could see ourselves burning out earlier than 60. We also worry about late career lay offs and not being able to find new jobs that pay what we were earning. So it’s not a desire to retire early, but a fear that we may need to do so and a pressure to insure against that risk.
Regarding your last paragraph, that’s exactly what we’re doing. :) Each month, we consider doing something fun but then end up buying more mutual funds and feeling a weird combination of pride and shame over the growing balance.
Anon
I think the 50/50 suggestion is a good one. I’m personally more comfortable having a lot of cash in the bank but I also balance that with wanting to do things while I’m able. As others have pointed out, a rainy day may never come or you may not live to see it. I also firmly believe in creating as lovely a life as you can and that means spending some money. As I get older, flying is less and less comfortable so I’ll fly first. I also find vacations are better when I stay in nice places because I’m not “leaving the hotel all day and only sleeping there.” Enjoy your life and don’t save every spare penny.
Anonymous
My mom died at 60 before she ever got to retire and I’m so glad she enjoyed her life while she was living it and am doing the same myself. Don’t save the joy and adventure for a later you might not get.
anon
Yeah, my Mom died before retirement too, and lived very frugally with hopes of traveling in retirement. Never got to enjoy any of it. She had totally healthy habits, but died of cancer out of nowhere. It could happen to any of us at any time.
Anon
When I’m old, I’d rather pick who wipes my butt in the care home (and leave if they’re terrible) than have memories of fancy vacations when I was younger.
Anon
So your ideal life is just saving money and not having any fun experiences until you’re put in a nursing home? That’s depressing.
Anon
No, my idea is going on vacations that hit the sweet spot of “good enough”, rather than inflating my lifestyle to use up my income.
Of Counsel
If you are in a care home and need to have your butt wiped, the chances are pretty good you will also have no memories at all and will lack the capacity to pick up and leave.
Everyone has different priorities but spending your life planning for death is a pretty grim way to live, especially since the odds are that you will not end up incapacitated in a care facility for any considerable length of time (although individual genetics and lifestyle really play a role here).
OP – This is a matter of priorities. Personally, I would rather take nice vacations now rather than plan on early retirement, but I do not hate my job and have generous PTO. And I tend to vacation with family who may no longer be alive when I am retired (my parents) or who will have their own busy lives (my kid). I would not replace the memories of snorkeling in French Polynesia with my dad and my daughter for anything.
Anon
Agree with all this. We do a lot of epic multi-generational travel too and those memories are priceless. Next summer I’m spending ~$30k (including the value of redeemed airline miles) to take my mom and daughter to South Africa and go on safari. It will be the most expensive trip I’ve ever taken but I’m sure it will be worth every penny/airline mile.
Anon
Wanting something like this has never once crossed my mind. I doubt I’ll have the capacity to care or make anyone in charge of my finances care. I’d rather have the vacations.
anon
To be frank, if someone is wiping your butt in a Nursing Home, you are probably in no state of mind to be making much of any decisions for yourself. I hope you have a ?child/lawyer/accountant/ financial advisor/social worker that you can keep on retainer to do all of the $ management necessary to get you there. Almost none of us do, and fortunately most of us wont need it. I’m pretty sure I’ll be dead from cancer long before my dementia gets that advanced. And if I have dementia, honestly I wont really care anymore.
Anon
I’m not as sure. In my family people get horrendously physically ill and immobile while retaining full awareness.
Lily
Well, are you currently going on any nice vacations? If not, I’d start by going on one nice vacation a year and you can always adjust course later. If you’re already taking one or two nice vacations a year, I’m not sure adding more nice vacations outweighs the delightful possibility of retiring 4 years earlier than planned.
Cat
With $60K per year you can go on two awesome vacations a year and still put at least $40K of that into retirement. We spend usually about $6-7K per 10 day Europe trip and like $4-5K on the same in the Caribbean, staying at midrange type places.
Anon
Those numbers feel low to me, even for a family of two. Economy class plane tickets to Europe can easily be $1,500 these days, which only leaves $300 a day for the hotel, food and all activities, and that’s really tight. Doable, but not necessarily what most people consider “nice.”
That said, agree $60k can fund a lot more than two trips. Even with a kid we rarely spend more than $15k on a trip and are often in the $10k range, although we rarely travel for more than one week.
Cat
We track prices religiously so we can scoop them up for less – our nonstop flights this year were $700pp. Agreed that airfare could be a major factor, though. Even if you have to pay $1500pp, $20K would comfortably cover two nice trips!
Of Counsel
I just took three people on a very nice trip to Europe for that amount so definitely doable. (But our RT airfare to Italy was around $550 because I set up a Google flights alert and jumped on it when the rates went down.)
Anon
Yeah, I would put this entire amount in an index fund and just take out vacation and charity money as events came up. I don’t see a reason to earmark it differently from the start.
anon
First, I struggle with this too, although I’m 5 years younger and just now starting to feel that I have a lot of extra/wiggle room, and the money spigot is not going to turn off (I’m gov, so not in a burn out position like big law.)
Anyways, the solution for me is to just say YES to things that I want but would have previously said no to or have shopped around a lot on, or sought out second hand. Like, here are real examples from recent (highly identifying LOL):
– I’m going to a local Oktoberfest with friends. I’ve wanted a nice Dirndl for years. I bought a $250 dress I’ll wear once a year, tops. I feel more joyful already.
– I do a highly specialized hobby with specialized equipment. I want to do a slightly different version of that hobby that requires a new piece of equipment. I’m not positive I will like the new version of the hobby, but think I will. I bought the new equipment for $700, and paid extra for the pretty version.
– Performers I have been following on Insta for years were going to be at a Fringe theatre festival 3 hours away from me. I decided to drive to go see them + multiple other performances on short notice.
– I’m helping a friend self publish a book for fun. I subscribed to chatgpt plus to generate a million book cover ideas.
Like – slightly loosening up the purse strings can result in lots of fun so long as you are spending it on stuff you actually like.
OP
Thank you. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who struggles with this. Have fun with all of your wonderful adventures!
Anon
I like this a lot and wish I had done this in starting when my kids were in middle school and high school. We modeled working hard, saving, investing, being wise, and encouraged the kids to do well in school and make good decisions while having fun. I wish I’d been better at using the good stuff now for myself as a busy working mom and as a model to my kids.
Anon
Start by changing how you’re thinking about “young” and “old.” 56 is still very young, and it’s healthy for most people. My advice is to retire as young as you can but don’t sacrifice all fun vacations.
Anon
My husband and I don’t max all our voluntary accounts, although we’re in a weird situation working for a state university where we each have two accounts with separate contribution limits (403b and 457) so we could contribute up to $92k ($23k * 4) per year total. Our HHI is only around $200k so that would be a lot. We always each max one account and put some money into the second but rarely max both. I’d say most years we’re around $60k in joint voluntary contributions, which is more like $90k in total contributions (we get 10% of our salaries as an employer contribution, and also have mandatory 4% 401a contributions). That feels like plenty to me, and although we could save more, we’re happy to spend the leftover on travel and experiences and charity.
That said, my husband does not have any interest in early retirement and if health permits will probably work until at least 70, and since his salary supports us, I won’t have any need to draw down retirement accounts while he’s working. So if everything goes well – and yes I realize it’s a major “if” – we may not touch our retirement funds until age 70 or older.
In your shoes, I would use a significant portion of the extra $5k for experiences like travel.
Anon
One of the fittest people I know is now battling an aggressive cancer at 60. Before he became ill, he was talking about finally taking time out from the job (finance) to really travel. My dad died at 63. There has never been a trip I regretted going on or a date with my partner I would take back (I’m talking intentional date, not massive take out bills on auto pilot, which we’ve fallen into on occasion and had to walk back).
I’m saying obviously nothing is guaranteed – if you are spending mindfully and enjoying yourselves, make some time and spend some money to have fun now. And I have friends saying they can shuffle around Europe when they’re old, for example. I’m telling you there’s a massive difference between climbing a mountain for the view in Greece versus inching back to the cruise ship after you made it to one museum and a tourist shop.
Anon
Do anything that requires being young and healthy now. I’m 40 and had some surprise medical issues. My days of doing things like hiking the Inca trail or going hut to hut in the Swiss Alps are over. You never know what’s going to happen in life.
Anon
Go on vacation! There is not a meaningful difference between 56 and 60. My mom planned to travel after she retired but died at 65. If you were saying you can either retire at 60 or 70 I’d have a different answer.
Anon
The book “Die with Zero” might be an interesting read for you. It’s a reframe of how much you need to save, and hammers home the point that experiences and memories trump all else (without being irresponsible, etc etc). We should have actual numbers in our head when saving for retirement, and planning things like inheritance and charity gifts we hope to leave behind, and once we hit those numbers we should be intentional about spending the rest on enjoying our lives, especially when we are relatively young and healthy. A catastrophic illness or accident would wipe out your savings no matter how much you have, so better to buy appropriate insurance, play the odds, and not worry about socking away every cent for “later.”
Anonymous
Vacation. If it makes you feel better, rotate.
Year 1: go on one big and one small vacation, put extra money in retirement
Year 2: two awesome but not $$$ vacations, extra money in retirement
Year 3: two big ones
Anon
Man, y’all are in a mood today!
Senior Attorney
Right?
Anon
Seriously.
Of Counsel
This is one of those days when I really wish people had to pick a username for a day and stick to it, if only because it is impossible to tell if there is one “Anon” or twenty.
Anon
I can’t imagine what kind of person decides that it’s a good use of his/her time to go onto c o r p o r e t t e and be a b1tch, but they probably also brag to their friends about it. Kinda pathetic.
Anon
I’m always impressed by those who have the courage to post under a consistent name given the cranky Anons!
Anonymous
And it’s Friday! Almost time to sign off and chill. Happy weekend everyone :)
An
This place is the definition of hate-read
Anon
In fairness, no one in the east coast has seen the sun in days. I have my red light therapy lamp, but others may be feeling those effects.