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If heels are looking unlikely if/when you go back to work, these new slip-on loafers look fabulous for dresses, skirts, ankle pants and more. I like that they're from Frye (always a stalwart in comfortable but cool shoes) and I like that they're getting great reviews.
They're $197 at Nordstrom, Frye, Bloomingdale's, Zappos, and Shoebacca.
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Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Horse Crazy
Help me find jeans that fit. I am a size 14 or 16, but my calves are slim. I prefer skinny jeans, and I keep buying pairs that fit my waist/hips, but they’re way too baggy in the legs, especially below the knee. When I buy ones that fit my legs, they don’t button. Is there a unicorn brand that will work for me, for preferably less than $100/pair? Should I give up on skinnys and try another style? HALP.
eertmeert
Have you tried Loft Modern Skinny or Universal Thread (target brand)? The Universal Thread particularly are like gloves on my calves.
I would also try the American Eagle jeggings. Seriously, am almost 40 and wear them. My 65 year old aunt wears them. Not just for teens!
Anonymous
+1000 I am 60 and love them.
Anon
Old Navy Rockstar Super Skinny’s work for me–similar Tweedledum body type!
Horse Crazy
Omg that’s too accurate!!
Anon
I’m your size, but with large calves. What are the brands that are way too baggy for you? Sounds like they might be perfect for me :)
Horse Crazy
INC from Macy’s – they’re sooooo soft and I want to love them, but I look ridiculous in them. Also Levi’s and Lauren Ralph Lauren. Hope they work for you!!
Anon
I am the same size/shape and bought these based on recommendations here. They are life-changing. https://www.amazon.com/Signature-Levi-Strauss-Totally-Shaping/dp/B01H3EEHEU/ref=sr_1_4?crid=U9KSI2ERVPFI&dchild=1&keywords=levi+strauss+signature+jeans+women&qid=1596570676&sprefix=levi+stra%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-4
Jo March
I have this same problem and Old Navy rockstar (the super skinny fit) and American Eagles have worked best for me. I haven’t tried super high end brands.
I’m actually wearing the Loft Modern skinnies now and they are way too wide at the ankle and slightly too wide at the calf and fit more like straight jeans on me.
Horse Crazy
Thank you all! This site is seriously the best.
Anon
Yes! Old Navy Rockstar jean’s were recommended to me by people here & they fit my similar type body GREAT!
anon4this
I had saved up to surprise my ex with a meaningful gift, but for many reasons, he is an ex and I never gave him that gift. I’ve put the bulk of the money to other uses, but I’ve decided to buy myself a bag. I’m leaning towards the older Coach bags that are genuine leather. I think I’m going to purchase a black bag, but that’s mostly because I can’t think of another color that would be versatile enough. I would appreciate some guidance on where to purchase and how to tell quality online. TIA!
Anonymous
In general I feel that NAS is overblown, but this may be a good use of the sale— finding lower price on something you already know you want.
Carmen Sandiego
I don’t know how to judge quality online, but I would suggest purchasing directly from the designer, just because they register the bags and can do maintenance on it if you need it, because it has a registration number. I’ve never purchased used, so I’m not sure if that works buying used.
I have the Coach black saffiano leather tote and have had it for 7 years and use it near-daily and it has held up very well. I have only had the straps replaced once (and I did it through Coach, just brought it into the store and they shipped it to their workshop and then shipped it back to me repaired. I don’t know if they sell it anymore, but you might be able to find a used one if you’re going that route.
I will also suggest, if you’re looking for something more interesting than a plain black bag, but still versatile, check out Brahmin. They have beautiful totes and satchels, and I think a lot of their colors are versatile, but particularly anything in the Pecan, Cocoa, and Cognac are really beautiful and are deep enough to go with anything, in my opinion. I have one of their tri-colored satchels, with the biggest portion being cognac, and I get a lot of compliments on it (and I wear it with black garments even though it is brown-toned).
anon4this
Sorry, I think I wasn’t clear enough. I looked up the actual styles and I’m thinking of the more vintage Coach styles (the Court or Station bags), so I’d have to buy them secondhand. I’ve poked around on Poshmark but it’s hard to discern the condition of bags via pictures. Similar on ebay.
HW
Maybe Tradesy?
Ellen
I love old Coach bags. I still have 2 left from college, and would have kept #3, but I left a tuna fish sandwich in it in college, and left it in my closet in the dorm when I went on Spring break, so when I finally got back, the whole room stunk and I had to throw out the bag with all of the stuff in it. You should still get a coach bag, and give your ex an old tuna fish sandwich. He deserves it!
Kat I love Fry, but their boots! So I have my cleaning lady put mink oil on them each Fall, so that they stay flexible during the winter.
thrifty chic
I recently bought a vintage (circa 1990) Coach purse off of ebay after shopping around. I too wanted something timeless, real leather, and affordable. I compared various listings on eBay, Poshmark, and Thredup before I settled on one via eBay. Take a look at the listing on the largest monitor possible so that you can see the flaws. I love mine!
Anonymous
Caramel, grey, burgundy are all non black options that go with everything.
The original Scarlett
Chiming in late, but I’d look at the Real Real – they supposedly authenticate the second hand stuff
Dividing the Check
Posted super late in the morning one, hoping for more thoughts here:
Most of my friends come from dual income situations and almost all earn significantly more than me (I earn about 40k per year), some also have family money. As a result, our budgets are inherently different. This isn’t new or news. Also, I don’t drink and I tend to eat small portions so I often order an app as a meal or a side salad is enough for me as a meal. When we go out together or go out as a group, when the check comes, the general consensus is to just split it however many ways. However, this almost always means I pay in for significantly more food than my meal and a portion of alcohol I did not consume. If I had tons of cash, I wouldn’t care, I just don’t have that luxury so I have to care. However, I don’t want to be someone who doesn’t join because of money, nor do I want to cause a problem in the group because of money (especially at places where check splitting or getting a separate check would be odd or is not permitted). I know that no one does this at me, I’m just not sure how to handle it, especially because my goal is not to get friends to offer to cover me nor is it to make them choose cheaper places they wouldn’t like or not order what they want or, worst, reconsider whether to invite me. I also don’t want to sit at meals cringing when someone orders another drink because I am calculating my percentage of that drink’s cost.
Thoughts or advice or guidance or whatever?
Alexis
Could you advocate for one person to pay and then you all pay them back their share? I know that may also not work depending on your friend group / where you go.
Anonymous
Ordering a side salad as a meal is weird. Order a meal when you go out to dinner.
But also use your words! Hey guys I just had a side salad so I’m going to pay (salad cost+ tax+tip)! Should not be a problem.
Anonymous
I order an appetizer plus a side salad as a meal all the time. The appetizers and salads are often more interesting than the meals.
Jo March
+1
Some of the yummiest stuff on menus is in the appetizer section! And if you take a chance and don’t like it, pairing it with a salad salvages the meal instead of having a huge pasta dish you won’t want to eat.
Anonymous
That’s literally not what I said. Ordering a side salad. Just a side salad. Weird.
Anon
I think this comes up a lot even if you don’t order side salads? I always order an entree, but I don’t drink alcohol and if people are ordering even a couple drinks, it’s easy for the cost discrepancy between the drinkers and the non-drinkers to be huge.
Ellen
Just go out and order like everyone else, and then bring home what you don’t eat in a doggy bag. I know a woman who always does this and hardly ever eats more then a salad, so she goes home with the entree for the next day. Of course, she is not svelte like you or me, but she keeps her food bill under control that way.
Anon
There’s no good answer. You either need to suck it up or use your words. Can you get a larger entree and have half of it boxed to go, so at least you’re in the ballpark on the food part?
Jess
Yep, this is a totally normal situation. When the waiter arrives, just ask for a separate check. If they want to separate it however many ways, that’s fine, but they should understand that you didn’t order as much as they did. Or you can ask the waiter ahead of time for your own check. If they offer to split it n-1 ways so you don’t have to pay at all, let them. You an get a round of drinks sometime or return the favor in other ways, and that’s what friends are for.
Unfortunately, it’s on you–and them to be assertive. If I were you, and my friends mentioning going to a cheaper place next time, I’d say something like: “oh that’s thoughtful, but I really am happy getting small plates because I’m so short haha.” There are tons of lifestyle reasons to order apps: the chefs are sometimes more adventurous, some people like smaller, more frequent meals, and other people (like me) like rich food but are short and trying to avoid gaining weight. It’s no big deal at all once you open the dialog with your friends and it doesn’t have to be a big thing, I promise.
Anonymous
Ask for a separate check when you order, not when the bill comes at the end of the meal.
anon
Yes, ask up front for your stuff to be kept separate.
Curious
As one of the now- rich friends who used to be in your shoes, I am so grateful when a friend says hey, I need my own check to stay on budget for the month / splitting’s not in the budget for me. I’m always worried we are stressing people out when we go somewhere with entrees more than $10 (and this includes people on higher incomes who are paying off debt etc). Honestly it’s a bit on your friends to ask/ be considerate, but thank you thank you thank you if you take the burden of breaking the silence on money.
One thing also to consider — is there one friend who can help you/ advocate for you? Something as simple as “hey I’m happy to split but let’s get Dividing the Check her own tab so she doesn’t have to spot our drinks.” That way it’s not always you.
Cat
The second paragraph is what i suggested earlier so, co-signed. speaking to one of the other group members beforehand means you don’t have to bring it up yourself.
Curious
Great minds :)
Anon
This was definitely an episode of Friends. :) Rachel, Joey, and Phoebe made less money and got mad at Ross, Monica, and Chandler because they always had to go “somewhere nice” and split the check six ways.
Just ask for a separate check when you order.
HW
Yes!
Anonymous
Maybe go to fa ast/casual place where everyone pays at the register and then takes it back to a table? My city has tons of them, often with great food and a full liquor license. Overall cost is low (if that is your main concern). This is easier to do in a group than something like trying eat for cheap at somewhere fancier.
To deal with the “too much food” at restaurants, apps are good but I also find that I can get things like scallops which tend to have very small portions (ditto: sushi) or aren’t too heavy.
anon
Ask the server for a separate check!
M
In my friend group, we often have one person pay the entire tab, and everyone else pays that person back for their share via venmo/paypal/app of choice. It’s an honor system to fairly calculate how much you ate/drank, plus tax & tip, but it evens out for us over time. Could you suggest something like this? It’s not a 100% solution because you’re still shifting how to calculate what’s owed. Definitely commiserate on this.
Anonymous
This. As a former server, it’s just as much (if not more) effort to split a bill evenly among people as it is to split it by seat/order.
Anonymous
Are the restaurants your friends pick wildly outside of your budget (e.g., your budget is taco bell and theirs is Morton’s)? It may be that you need to talk to your BFF within the group: “Friend, I can afford a dinner roll there. Can we go to . . . pizza . . . instead?” Or maybe you have them to a dinner party at your place and it’s pasta? I see a bunch of things here — non-drinking, not eating much, not wanting to spend much. All are sort of related, but if these are your friends, they would understand. Pricey restaurants aren’t the only options for good food. If you don’t drink (maybe you are a non-drinker, or it’s to avoid empty calories or b/c you are driving or to save $), that is also a problem to solve in different ways.
check splitting
For me, this depends on how many people are in the group and how frequently I go out with them. I have several friends or couples who we go out with regularly enough that stuff evens out and/or both parties are cognizant of how much each person consumed (ie: I offer to just split the check down the middle and one of them speaks up to say that they got drinks so we should split it 60/40 or whatever). If it’s just me and one other friend, it’s clear if one person’s dish was way more expensive than the other (again, that person usually speaks up to cover all of the tip or throw in more for the meal). For friends who I’ve known forever or we go out together all the time, I know it will eventually even out and we just split it down the middle or one of us picks up the whole check. But if it’s a huge group that I never hang out with, I would ask for a separate check, suck it up just this once (have done that every so often when it’s a birthday dinner or something with a group I’ll never deal with again), or speak up and say that I’m putting in cash for my portion. Unless you have really clueless or rude friends, very few people are going to be mad that you don’t want to subsidize steak and alcohol for 10 when you just got water and an appetizer.
Anon
Speak up. When making plans in the group text chat just say you’re on a budget, don’t drink, etc. If they can’t work with you on this, get friends that don’t suck!
NY CPA
Bring cash. Say hey guys since I just ordered a side dish, I’ll just pay cash for my meal + tax + tip and you can all split the rest. (I usually do about food price + 25-30% in this case)
Curious
Ah yes this is a good way too!
Anon
Your group of friends needs Splitwise. It’s a life saver for any kind of group outing.
Anon
It’s much easier now for a waiter to split a check than it used to be. Just make sure you ask up front.
You’re going to have to be brave to do this instead of sucking it up but it’s the only way to make it happen. What I would do is when it’s your turn say, I’d like a separate check, please, and then order your stuff. If anyone asks, you can tell them you’re tight on funds right now or something but I am guessing most of them won’t ask.
The only time this wouldn’t work is if you’re taking someone out for a birthday or something and all the guests are going to split that person’s meal. Then you would still have to pay your share of that, of course.
eertmeert
What are some other fashion/style sites/blogs that people read regularly?
Here are mine:
Looks Good From the Back (style blog)
Musings of a Muse (makeup/skincare)
The Beauty Look Book (luxery makeup/skincare)
Rank & Style (top ten lists of clothing/household/beauty items)
Putting Me Together (style blog)
Girls of A Certain Age (style blog)
Jo-Lynne Shane (style blog)
Dress Cori Lynn (style blog)
Keira Lennox (style blog)
Senior Attorney
I love Respect the Shoes at blogspot. I have copied more of her outfits than I can shake a stick at.
Anon
I love skincare YouTubers. My faves are Dr. Sam Bunting, Hyram, James Welsh, Gothamista, and Dr. Dray. I also love Hannah Louise Poston, who does some skincare but also make up and some money/decluttering content.
Kag
I like many of these You Tubers as well, plus Andrea Ali (MUA).
anon8
Makeup and Beauty Blog
Cap Hill Style
Extra Petite
Living in Yellow
Politics of Pretty
Savvy Southern Chic
Travel Fashion Girl
Wardrobe Oxygen
You Look Fab
Cat
Cap Hill Style (solid recs for work and casual)
The Directrice (inspiration to mix up how i use my wardrobe pieces)
Extra Petite (though more out of habit at this point, she’s gone full on influencer mommy blogger so her workwear brain seems a bit stuck from when she left her desk job)
Anon
See Anna Jane
Blue Collar Red Lipstick
Extra Petite
The Stripe
Girls of a Certain Age
I Want To Be Her
Eertmeert
Thanks ladies!!
Car Selling
When you sell a car to a private party, how do you handle the process? I know some go with the person to the DMV to ensure that they transfer the title immediately while others sign off on the title and assume the person will go. I don’t want to create more work than necessary (or go hang out at the DMV if I don’t have to) but I worry about the person never transferring the title and getting into an accident or something while the title is in my name.
Of Counsel
This is state specific so you need to let us know where you live.
Senior Attorney
In California it’s pretty important. You can be on the hook for equipment violations and registration and so on even if there’s never an accident.
Coach Laura
Yes, state specific. In Washington, the seller can file a report that they sold it. That way if the buyer doesn’t file/doesn’t file timely, the seller is not liable. I’d take a photo with my phone of the signed off title and a copy of the buyer’s ID (if they gave it to you when they test-drove it). But otherwise, yes, go to DMV together.
Anon
In my state, there’s part of the title that you tear off and mail in so the DMV knows you sold it.
Post-Covid Style
Wondering if or how your professional style will change after covid; how and why!
Anonymous
I’m done with heels. I was pretty much done before after two kids, but now it’s official. I’ll still wear heeled wedges, but otherwise it’ll be all flats for me.
Anon
I’m permanently WFH so yeah I basically am going to live in athleisure for the rest of my life.
Jo March
I feel like I’m going to have 2 types of work outfits:
1) When I want to dress up because omg I haven’t in so long and I have this wardrobe of confidence boosting professional kicka** clothes
and
2) When I need to look work appropriate but I’d rather be wearing leggings.
Pre-COVID, my work wardrobe was squarely in the middle to make it easier – blouses that could work with jeans but that I’d wear with a blazer for work, black ponte pants that could also work either way, etc.
Anon
I’m going to be 100% WFH and I have enough wear-to-important-meeting clothing to last me the rest of my life for conferences and whatnot, so I’m pretty much all set. I anticipate only needing replacements of basics like jeans, shoes, underwear, etc.
I buy most of my casual tops from eBay already.
Anon
I am the OP of this morning who has trouble buysing anything for myself. Replying here because I only now got off work for long enough to look at responses. My mind was blown by how many thoughtful, kind and insightful responses I received! Thank you so much – I really love this community!
I will read them at leisure tonight but I already see a few things that struck a cord – I will probably start with finally buying the books I want. Also the suggestions to start with upgrading things when it can really improve my life and not only when they are falling apart from use is a very useful way of looking at it. I will use this next time when I feel irrational resistance getting something for myself.
Thank you also for understanding amd chiming in with your examples – I am fully aware my issues are small compared to what people struggle with, but they are real for me and they have always been there and now I feel seen and understood.
LD
It is helpful for me too to have a budget for each category. So if, eg I want a new fun purse and I would wear it with many things and it matches my other clothes, but I could also do without it, I might look how I’m doing, “ok I have X budgeted and I have only spent Y. There’s nothing clothes-wise that is higher priority right now for me. let me go for it and buy this.”
anon
OP – I am pleased to see you are going to begin treating yourself. You’ve already taken the most important step by identifying the issue and giving yourself permission to move forward. The earlier thread contained many lovely suggestions for you. If for whatever reason you or your family members don’t want to keep the books when you are finished reading them, you can always pay it forward and donate them so someone else can enjoy the books, too!
Other ideas to improve your life: Jo Malone products, weighted blanket, or even something as small and unexpected as allowing yourself to impulse purchase a pack of gum at the grocery checkout. You deserve it. Good luck, OP.
Help
I could really use some advice if anyone is bored.
A few years ago, I left a stable career to go back to grad school for a totally different career. Never hated my old job but wanted something “more”. I knew it would be a lot of money (taking on lots of student debt – of which I had never had previously), the opportunity cost of not earning anything for a while, and a lot of studying and “normal” sacrifices.
It was a huge deal to even apply and get in and there’s still a long way to go after I finish the academic portion (keeping it vague intentionally because the details would out me).
I thought I knew what I was getting into but between rotten luck personally health-wise and other unanticipated hardships, I’ve had an insanely difficult time ever since I started. I had a new-onset health issue crop up right when I made the switch and it has been a huge struggle to try to get through my program while getting the healthcare I need. I even took some time off but it’s going to likely be a lifetime thing now where I need continuous medical appointments (which is not conducive/feasible during both my program, the residual training, and the actual future new career) and trying to just push through has really been affecting me negatively.
I’m honestly at the point where I’m debating if it makes sense to at least finish with the degree or if I should just quit entirely. I’m getting stuck in the huge sunk cost mentality right now (I’ve literally given up hundreds of thousands of dollars now, both real and opportunity cost) and will struggle to pay back my student debt if I continue to accumulate to reach graduation but don’t actually continue in the new career afterwards. I also know I’d never forgive myself for quitting and would always think “what if”, if I do quit. On the other hand, my excitement for this new career has honestly been diminished so much because of all the extra unanticipated sacrifices I’ve had to make, and I also only get to live one life.
What would you do? Would you cut your losses (knowing you could never ever pick it up again in the future – wouldn’t be an option) and be glad to return to a former career that while not exciting, pays decently and offers huge flexibility for any healthcare I need. Or would you push through to graduate, accumulating more debt and not even qualifying for a “real” job in new career? Or would you still try to complete every step and do new career, despite my diminished eagerness for both the career and increased resentment/some negative implications for your health? There definitely would be a huge stigma to quitting as everyone knows I’ve been working on this switch for years and years by now and I would feel like I really let myself down.
Sorry if this is rambling and unclear. I’m pretty tired and have been having all these thoughts running through my head now for the last few months without being able to come to any resolution. It would be one thing if I was near the end of the training and could get a real job soon in the new career, but that’s not going to be for at least 4-5 more years, if not longer.
Senior Attorney
I started a master’s program about 10 years ago, not to change careers necessarily, but because I thought it would be fun and also helpful for what I was doing at the time. Anyway, my situation changed in a variety of ways and I ended up dropping out halfway through. It stings a tiny bit not to have completed it, but it was the right call and I have no regrets.
It sounds like your best option is definitely to go back to the old career so you can take care of your health, and if you are looking for somebody to give you permission to do that, I’m officially giving it!
OP
Thank you! Definitely helps to hear others’ experiences. It would sting a massive amount to drop out, that’s for sure. I don’t know for certain that old career is what makes the most sense – part of me feels a huge sense of relief to go back to something “easy” (I still worked very hard but the level I’d be going back at, I already have a lot of rank) while the other part can’t believe I’d give up so easily when technically, I finish my degree in 1.5 years, with a huge chunk of the academic portion in new career behind me.
Anonymous
I realized after one week of law school that it was a huge mistake and I should have gone for the Ph.D. I really wanted instead. I stuck it out because my husband didn’t want me to be a quitter.
It sounds as if you know what you really want to do and are just afraid to take the leap. Not taking that leap was the biggest, most expensive mistake I’ve ever made. More than a decade after graduation, I still regret it every day of my life. Don’t be me.
OP
This is super helpful to hear (and I’m sorry you experienced it!). Would you have quit if let’s say it was at the end of year 2 that you decided you didn’t want to continue and had just one year left? Or suck it up since at that point, at least you’re nearly finished the degree portion? Did you end up working in law after so that you could pay your debt?
Anonymous
The original deal was that I’d stick it out for the first year and then leave for grad school if I still felt the same way. At the end of that year I hated law school even more, but I was also pregnant and on law review and ranked first in my class and in a good position to secure a full-time non-law job that was sort of related to what I really wanted to do at graduation. The practical decision at that point was to stay. I still wish I hadn’t. I did decide not to waste the time and money on taking the bar. I actually ended up on a Ph.D. career track and have received some of the same training I would have gotten in grad school through other means, but my options for a lateral move are limited by my educational credentials. I had a substantial scholarship to law school and was able to pay off my loans on the standard 10-year schedule on my non-law salary, but the loans still set our family back a long way financially.
I am guessing you’re in med school, which means you still have to get through residency, and it sounds as if you don’t actually want to practice medicine. Med school and residency are a whole order of magnitude more awful than law school. I wouldn’t choose to incur additional debt and put myself through the misery of finishing med school if I didn’t intend to complete a residency and go into practice.
The Original ...
First, internet hugs in the most consenting and gentle way possible, I’m so sorry you’re in this spot through no fault or choice of your own.
Next, I’d think about 5 years from now. If I can’t go into the career but I have the degree as well as a ton more debt, will that feel most satisfying? If I can’t go into the career, have part of the degree, and less debt, will I feel less in the financial hole?
Not sure your age to know if there’s enough life left that there may be new treatments or tuition options in the future to return to this. What I DO know though, as someone with chronic illness, is that stress is huge. Is debt more stressful than a “wish I could have” for you? Is a regret that feels rough but comes from logic more stressful than spending longer paying off debt while juggling medical situations?
No matter what you decide, I’m so sorry you have to make this decision <3
OP
Thank you! That’s exactly it – I feel like this is something my body has forced me into, it was not a choice of my own that has made things so, so difficult the last few years. And I think that’s part of what’s really hard to accept since it’s not like I’m struggling academically at all.
Definitely having the degree would be more satisfying (although at that point, I’d probably convince myself to “just” continue with the next step of training too) but it would be another $100k of debt and my current loans continuing to accrue interest (albeit on hold till the end of Sept because of the CARES act).
From a health standpoint, the more difficult part is something that’s hopefully going to end eventually, within the next 3-4 years. But I have no doubt that I will continue to experience the effects for the rest of my life, given the nature of everything that has already happened.
The Original ...
I think you do things one bite at a time… if staying in school and taking on more debt and losing more income by not working is what is most immediately harmful and what would be most harmful for the next 3-4 years, your body needs you to stop for the next 3-4 years. At that point, you can reassess the situation and check out what effects are left and whether they can fit with returning to school.
While it often seems that no one ever leaves and comes back, there are a zillion reasons why people leave and some do wish to return. Plus, you get the benefit of covid in terms of knowing that, if you’d want to return and have to be interviewed to show why you wouldn’t leave again, you wouldn’t have to give personal details, you could acknowledge that the pandemic changed the world substantially and, since another pandemic is unlikely, you don’t expect the situation to reoccur. Not inaccurate and not disclosing your personal details.
I worry for you that your health (physical and mental) due to trying to keep up while juggling medical appointments and taking on more debt to be responsible for. If you reached a point of burn-out and had a slow decline, it may be tougher and feel more like your fault than if you pressed pause due to something absolutely outside of your control and absolutely something you did not ask for, want, or deserve.
I would also encourage you to think about and let yourself feel when it comes to the unfairness of it all. Body betrayal is real and it’s horrible and I’m so sorry you are in a fight with your own body. I was in one for a really long time too, it’s a different level of emotion than really anything else. If you have a burner email, I’d be happy to be penpals <3
Anonymous
Can you take a break? Would your program let you defer for a year or two? Maybe this decision would be less daunting if it didn’t feel so black and white even if you never go back, you don’t have to close the door completely right away.
Senior Attorney
I was wondering that, too.
OP
I already did take some time off and am not sure I’d be able to get permission to take time off a second time. Even if I did, there’s a hard limit I’d be running against, so it’s not like I could just come back at any point and it’s not like I could take off all the time I need to get through the next few years of my health.
Plus, if I did decide to come back after more time off, it would be a struggle academically to pick up where I’d left off. It would also be a huge red flag for my future hiring potential – even affecting my ability to continue to train after I graduate.
Anonymous
Drop out. If I’m reading correctly the future career is not compatible with your life anymore due to a now chronic illness, will drag you into debt, would claim five years of your life and earning potential, and you don’t want to do it anymore.
The only upside is not being embarrassed by quitting before you finish?
Girl. Live your life. Do not keep going. I promise you no one is as invested in you finishing this program as you think they are will and will likely forget you were doing it a year or two from now.
Senior Attorney
I couldn’t agree more with the second paragraph!
Senior Attorney
Signed, the person who once married somebody rather than be embarrassed about a broken engagement and holy cow that did not work out well
The original Scarlett
+1 – this isn’t a practice round!
Anonymous
Are you still in the learning curve of managing your health issue? An initial diagnosis is super stressful as is the initial learning curve of managing a long term illness. However, after a while managing it is second nature and takes less head space.
Anon
I think you need to think of this as self-care and self-preservation. It sounds like you would not even be able to function in the career if you finished your program, so what is the point of throwing more money at it? Cut your losses. You learned interesting things and lived the life of a grad student but now you’re done. You don’t want to do this.
Man plans, god laughs. You hit a fork in the road and are taking another direction. This is not a failure. It is a choice given circumstances you could not possibly have foreseen.
Me too!
Whoa I could have written this! I have done something similar, left law for a (2nd) STEM PhD program. It has been rough: the program is TERRIBLE and I have no idea what kind of job prospects (if any) would await me in the event that I manage to finish. It is hard to stay motivated! The only litmus test I have is that I would feel like crap for jumping before I am pushed. Not much help, but allllll the commiseration!!
Anon
Coming in late. Not a master’s program (I finished that) but I late last year went through an extensive project management class and started preparing to take the PMP exam. Then Covid hit and I took a break from preparing for the exam, because my work got crazy and I just didn’t have the bandwidth to do both things. As the “break” went on, I realized that I do not want to manage projects for the rest of my life, and didn’t really have any desire to go back to studying for the exam. I learned some things about project management that are helping me in my job, but if I get a PMP, in my organization I will be pushed to do project management full time, and that is not what I want to do. In my case, the sunk cost was only a couple thousand dollars vs. what you’re talking about. But I have zero regrets about quitting. If something’s not for you, it’s not for you. I am a “completionist” and usually feel compelled to finish what I start, but in this case, finishing would not serve me as I don’t see myself doing that work over the long term. Better to put my time and effort into something else. If that’s how you’re feeling, listen to your gut.
decisions, decisions
One more idea: can you force yourself to come up with 7 or 8 different scenarios for your future & see how they feel? Taking medicine as an example: what if you got the MD or DO degree and became something like a biotech equity analyst? Or you just walk away and open a holistic bakery on the side, or you go for broke but pick a residency/ specialty that is not super-grueling, or you start a career coaching biz for folks wanting to leave medicine, or…
Anon
If you don’t need them for privacy, do you have curtains? Can you help me pick some?
My living room is all white, with a light blue Oriental-style rug, light gray couch, mid-tone wood vintage mid-century furniture. The windows face onto my balcony which has walls on the side and faces an open area so no one can see into my LR without binoculars. I also don’t get much direct light so I don’t need to block out the sun. I think curtains (which I would leave open) would frame the window nicely and soften up the space, which is a bit too big for my furniture and sort of echo-y. I prefer a minimalist look so I want white (or off white?). But what KIND – linen? sheer? And what kind of rod? It needs to be really long to reach all the way across. Any store recommends? Or should I leave the windows bare?
thrifty chic
I would choose light curtains that compliment your wall color so that you get the look you want, but if you switch out your accessories, then you are not stuck switching out expensive curtains as well. An actual decorator wouldn’t agree, but if they’re for looks only, then you don’t need as many panels. Get creative with the rod. Curtainworks is the site I like for the best prices.
Anon
I do not like curtains and never have. I only have window coverings where I absolutely need them – in bedrooms and bathrooms. I have no window coverings in the dining room or kitchen. I have some draperies in the living room that I kind of wish were not there and I never close them. They just sit there collecting dust, which is one of my primary objections to curtains/draperies.
I love the modern look of interesting windows with no obstruction. My downstairs windows are paned – Arts and Crafts style – and it’s a shame to cover them in any way.
Anon
Here’s a photo of a house where window coverings would subtract, not add
https://www.houzz.com.au/photos/caruth-contemporary-living-room-dallas-phvw-vp~1730384
Anonymous
How much hair loss is normal for a 45-year-old lady who only washes her hair every 4 days? I get clumps every time I shampoo/condition (and lots of strands during rest of the time) and I’m not sure if feels more noticeable b/c I wash so infrequently.
hair loss
I’m a decade younger than you, but my hair has been steadily thinning since my 20s. I usually wash every other day or every 2 days. When I let it go to three days, I have significantly bigger clumps in the shower and when I comb my hair afterward. I have curly hair, so I shed a fair amount as it is. I do some water sports and I usually braid my hair to reduce tangling, but washing post-activity also results in big clumps. This is especially true if I participate in the sport for a couple of days and just wait to wash my hair until I know I’m done with the sport (think camping near the beach and surfing for a couple of hours on a Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday). I asked my doctor about it a few years ago and she said that it was pretty normal as you age and that it didn’t look like it was significant enough to warrant hormone testing or indicate an underlying condition (and I otherwise feel and look fine).
Anon
I noticed this issue in my 30s. Women’s Rogaine has saved me. Highly recommend. But also keep in mind that if you only wash your hair every 4 days, you’re going to have so much more hair coming out in the shower. When I wash every day, I don’t lose as much. It’s just going to build up the longer you go.
Anon
Oh, and wanted to add that I was freaked out about this (my longish, formerly thick hair is my favorite feature) and asked my doctor about it. Like the poster above, my doctor was not concerned. We did some testing and found that my ferritin level was low, so I started taking iron. Not sure if the iron or the Rogaine helped, and it seemed to take forever, but I’m 40 now and my hair has thickened up gradually and feels like it used to.
Good luck!
Little Red
Good question. This spring my hair loss got to be bad enough that I ended up on Rogaine. The hairloss was near constant with hair falling out even with me just sitting on a chair never mind when combing or shampooing. The Rogaine seems to have helped a lot.
Anon
Just thinking out loud, following up on a post from this morning from the PhD poster who was late 30s and single…
…for those in their late 30s without marriage and kids, how do you deal with not getting to have the usual life milestones? Sometimes it seems like if you don’t get married and have kids, there is nothing left to celebrate. No one is going to buy you fancy stuff for your house and you have no reason to bring everyone in your life together for a big party.
After a couple decades of nonstop weddings and baby showers, things have quieted down and I’m also seeing who is really there for me post-celebration and who just wanted a lot of people at their parties to celebrate them. :/
Do you think some people marry and have kids because it fits a “normal” pattern and you get celebrated for doing so?
Anonymous
I have a spouse and kids and I very much wanted both, but I suspect part of why I wanted both was being “told” that I needed both at some level. I wouldn’t change it, but I also wouldn’t say that it wasn’t influenced by society.
But by the same token, I’m 40 and these celebrated events are now over. I suspect the remainder of my life and “big” events won’t be too different from those who chose not to have children.
anon
+1. I’m married with a kid, and the celebrations are over. I love my husband and child, but nobody is celebrating me for having them anymore. Any remaining celebrations look pretty much like everyone else’s–round-number birthdays, career successes, maybe retirement. If my husband and I both survive and stay marry until our 50th anniversary, I suppose we could get an “extra” celebration.
I do think we (society) should shift the things we celebrate. I try to attend as many celebrations and events as I’m invited to, and to send gifts (or gift cards or money) for college graduations, career successes, home purchases, milestone birthdays, etc. I also love an excuse to throw dinner parties–my most recent large party was for a friend’s PhD defense/birthday/going-away for post-doc.
Alexa
I guess you have your kids events? And milestone birthdays (which anyone can have) or anniversaries?
Anon
This. Your big events in a way become yours kids big events. Usually there’s something around 13-16, then high school graduation, college, their wedding, their kids, your retirement etc. Having kids and not having kids is completely different. I am single, no kids and mid-30’s.
Anonymous
Oh good. Married people here to smug it up.
Anon
My mom legit got married when she was…23? because she said everyone else was doing it and she felt left out. They got divorced 13 months later, so…
But if you decide you just want to have a party to have a party, do it! Just give your MWK friends like 8-10 weeks’ notice. (Trying to see close friends when their kids are in three super competitive sports is so hard and frustrating, so I schedule stupid far in advance to get it on their schedule early enough.)
anon
Baby showers (and most rituals around weddings tbh) stress me out so I don’t miss those things at all. But it does feel like sometimes my milestones are under-appreciated because they don’t fit the norm. For example, I became a homeowner in a HCOL city at the age of 27 — I didn’t get to register for fancy home stuff because there was no wedding associated with this milestone.
However, this isn’t something that I spend time dwelling on or feeling salty about — I’m only mentioning it here because you specifically asked us to reflect on what it’s like. I am immensely proud of what I’ve achieved on my own and am really happy with my life, even if it doesn’t conform to most people’s expectations.
Also after ?? months of quarantine, I believe we will all have plenty of reasons to host/attend parties in the future! I have totally come to understand why the post-Spanish flu 1920s were the way they were.
Anon
As a late twenties single person who has pretty much no close friends, I’ve only been invited to one wedding in my adult life – my brother’s. I haven’t been to any baby showers either, other than the obligatory office shower scheduled during work hours. It does get depressing (literally, I’m being treated for depression).
The celebrating thing reminds me of Carrie on SATC when she registers to marry herself after shelling out on engagement, wedding, baby, etc. presents for years.
anon8
I’m a 40s married person and I don’t have many close friends either. I’ve been to one close friend’s wedding who is someone I knew in high school. The other three weddings were for my husband’s friend and sister. I’ve been to one baby shower. I guess my point is, just because you’re married doesn’t mean you have a bunch of stuff to celebrate.
anon
+1 to a lot of this except I’m older – I’m early 40s, married with kids and only a couple of close friends. I can count on two hands the number of weddings I was invited to in my 20s and 30s and same for baby showers (most of them were showers for co-workers, not real friends anyway). I myself did not have a wedding or a baby shower for myself and am frankly relieved to be past that stage of life anyway. As a previous poster said, I expect the next stage of events to be milestone birthdays and maybe some major career successes. I also anticipate there will be sad events, like friends’ parents’ funerals and divorces. Different season of life now, I guess.
Anon
I feel ya. I’ve only been invited to I think four weddings for friends, plus one high school bestie who eloped but I would have been at the wedding if she had one. (I’ve been to a million weddings but they were mostly my husband’s friends and family – he has a huge family and more friends than I do.) I’ve only been a bridesmaid once. Several friends I thought were close-ish who were invited to and attended my wedding -including one of my bridesmaids! – didn’t invite me to their own weddings, which stung (and these weren’t tiny weddings or elopements – they were huge weddings that were much larger than my own).
And I’ve literally never been invited to a friend’s baby shower! (My few close friends with kids live far away.) I’m actually not too sad about that one though. I love my own kids and the children of dear friends, but I’m not a kid person in general and I really can’t stand cheesy games and endless cooing about infants, who pretty much just eat, sleep and poo.
Carmen Sandiego
I don’t know that anyone seeks out these milestones specifically for the celebrations, but I definitely think there’s an element of everyone-else-is-doing-it/feeling left out/societal expectations that influences people’s decision to do these things. I’m married, but childfree by choice, in an area that is heavily marry young, have kids young, and it can be very isolating to feel like you’re the only person you know who doesn’t have kids (and is never going to). That isn’t enough of a reason for me to have them personally, but I see why people do fall into these societal norms or just *want* to fit in.
I will also say, that for my one (at this point, yes just one, that’s how prevalent it is here) friend who hasn’t had any of these things, I do try to go out of my way to make birthdays special/acknowledge other life events with cards, champagne, gifts, dinners out, etc. And I would happily, happily celebrate any other non-marriage, non-baby related milestones for any friends. If you wanted to have a housewarming party and register, I would have gladly been down for that!
anon
I’m firmly in the camp of not needing a reason to bring people together to have a big party. Will people travel? Maybe not. But you can absolutely host a fun holiday party or a party just because it is Saturday!
And yes, I do think some people get married and have kids to feel legitimized by society. And those are the people who are miserable.
Senior Attorney
Agree on both points. I’ve had giant birthday parties (one for me, one for my husband in the past few years when we had milestone birthdays) but also big parties for things like the 50th anniversary of the Summer of Love.
And I would definitely buy stuff off your registry if you had a housewarming party!
Anon
I think a lot of people definitely do these things because everyone else is doing them. I waited a long time to have a kid (I was 35 and had been married for almost 10 years when I get pregnant). I was fortunate to get pregnant quickly (and of course I might have a different perspective if I had faced infertility), but I am really glad I waited and didn’t jump on the bandwagon of kids when all my friends were getting pregnant in their late 20s and early 30s, even though I had been married for longer than most of those friends at the time. I had way more time than most of my friends to be a carefree adult and to enjoy my disposable income alone and with just my husband. I feel like the sacrifices necessary for motherhood (and there are definitely sacrifices, along with a lot of joy) came much easier to me than to most people I know. Not because I’m a better or more selfless person, just because I did it later and was really ready to transition away from DINK life to a very different life more focused on someone else’s well-being. Plus I got tons of hand-me-downs and parenting advice! ;)
Anon for this
I hate it. I hate that no one makes a big deal about birthdays because I don’t have a partner or kids to do it so it’s either no one does or I have to do it (which feels narcissistic). I hate that my milestones (career or moving or whatever) aren’t acknowledged to be as important as engagement parties or wedding showers or sip and see events. I hate that I have to always work around parents’ schedules only because my friends who are parents tend not to think they also need to plan with me, as if being single and childfree means I’m just dressed and waiting for an invite and can walk out the door with no notice. I hate not getting invited to things because “everyone is bringing their kids and we thought you’d feel weird being there without kids.” I think what it is really is that so many people don’t notice the single childfree person because they are busy and, without a life mate or kids, it is too easy for that person to just be unnoticed in general unless they make a big deal about themselves, which can feel “high school drama kid” or “celeb who calls the paparazzi on themselves.”
Anon
I have been to plenty of birthday parties for my single girlfriends. In fact, far better parties. The most fun parties. My favorite parties. It is not true that people don’t want to celebrate you! Plan a party. Your friends will come.
Senior Attorney
Heh. You say “high school drama kid” like it’s a bad thing.
If it’s any comfort, the time when everybody is busy with weddings and kids is a season in life and it doesn’t last all that long in the scheme of things.
In-House in Houston
I’m taking a 3+ hour flight on Friday. Can anyone recommend a good Netflix show/movie/series that I should download to watch on the plane. Roundtrip I’ll have 6 hours. I’ve already seen Dead to Me, both seasons, and loved it. I really like true-crime shows. TIA!
anon
Dirty John!
anon8
Currently watching Mindhunter. Ozark was good. Warrior Nun if you like a bit of fantasy.
Carmen Sandiego
Yes to Ozark! Loved that one!
Not Netflix, but AppleTV (you can get a free trial I think, that’s how I got it) has Defending Jacob, and I really liked it. I was a fan of the book which is kinda old by now, and it was pretty true to the book for me. But if you haven’t read it, it’s enjoyable and crime related.
eertmeert
Broadchurch. So, so good.
Anonymous
Lennox Hill
Never too many shoes...
Derry Girls.
The original Scarlett
State of the Union on Amazon was brilliant – it’s a series done in 10 minute increments about a couple in therapy, kind of a two person show. I loved it and it’s the perfect travel show
Anon
I’m watching I’ll Be Gone in the Dark and it’s really interesting. If you like true crime you might like it. It’s as much about Michelle McNamara as it is about the GSK investigation. (Although I recommend not watching it right before going to bed.)
Fullyfunctional
Rettes, this is my first post – I’ve been reading y’all for many years. I need your help and advice.
I haven’t been able to bring myself to post until now, but I lost my sweetheart of 17 years to a sudden heart attack on July 17. We are 50 years old and had been close since we were 14 years old. He was bigger than life, funny, generous, and stubborn.
I’m so completely unmoored and struggling daily. I’m working hard to keep a relationship with his kids (prior marriage) and his sister to keep that connection with him. I’m living alone in our house surrounded by his stuff and I won’t let anyone touch it. I don’t want to throw away the half and half in our refrigerator, because it was his half and half. These are my daily struggles.
I’m trying to just live in the moment and get through minute by minute, but I’m terrified of life without him.
I know there’s no answer. I have a therapist and that helps somewhat.
Anyone lived through this nightmare who could share some coping strategies?
Senior Attorney
Oh, big hugs to you! It’s late in the day and I urge you to post again in the morning so more people can see.
I’ve never been in your position but my heart is breaking for you! All I can think of is maybe a(n online) bereavement group?
And also? Don’t let anybody pressure you to touch his stuff until you are darned good and ready. Minute by minute sounds like a good plan for now.
Pesh
Oh, I am so very, very, sorry. I totally understand what you mean about his things – you want to hang on to every part of him that you can. This is all still so new, and it’s okay to be struggling. It’s okay to be struggling.
It’s a bit late I’m that day to get responses, so please, please re-post this on tomorrow morning’s thread! I know other ladies on here have gone through similar circumstances, and those that haven’t will want to support you. I probably don’t have the right words but wanted to make sure this didn’t go without a response! Please re-post tmrw!
Anonymous
First, I am so sorry. That is a terrible loss, and you’re having to do it in a really weird time too. My situation is different – my husband is dying from a long-term degenerative disease – but I wanted to point you to Nora McInerny and Megan Devine’s grief postings on Facebook and the Internet. Both lost their husbands young and unexpectedly. It’s been really helpful to me as there’s been many big and small losses along the way.
Anon
Please repost tomorrow but know that I am thinking about you.
It’s okay to leave the half-and-half in the fridge for now. This just happened. You do not need to be “over it” (as if), or “getting over it” or even going to the dock where you will someday get on the boat that may eventually get you over it. It’s okay for your grief to look however it looks right now. It’s okay to be a mess and to be unapologetic about being a mess.
There are widow/widower communities out there on the Internet that will have people in them who have gone through what you’re going through. Doesn’t matter whether you were legally married or not; you lost him and you need support.
Big, big, big hugs. Please post again when more people will see this.
Anonymous
So I am younger than you, but I have a good story.
A woman I know lost her husband, the love of her life for 26 years, when she was 53. He had a heart attack and died at work.
It was adult. Her kids were in late high school and college at the time. She was gutted. She wrapped herself in her kids, her family, and work. After 3 years she started socializing again, at the encouragement of her friends and kids.
She met my dad, a late in life divorcee. They have a great relationship and are growing old together in a way that neither of them thoug they would be. I don’t want to get into it now when you are so raw, but another time I will happily tell you that she is in a good place now. I love her like an aunt/friend.
I will also tell you that a friend of mine lost her husband in a tragic accident when they were 34 with one kid and one on the way. That was 6 years ago and she is better. She was living in a deep pit of sadness and despaired but she climbed out and found the other side.
Lean on your friends and family. If that’s not enough, lean on us. If you are in the greater Boston area, let me know. I will find a way to bright socially distanced physical brightness to you. Heck, post a burner email and I bet we as a group can find a way to bring you physically AND socially distanced brightness.
My heart goes out to you.
Anonymous
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. A very concrete solution for possessions: have a good friend come take you out of the house for something that will take several hours. A hike, a long walk, whatever. (This was easier pre-covid, granted, but let your friend figure out something safe and easy- this is not on you to figure out.)
Then ask a second good friend to come to your house while you are gone and do x, y, and z things. Give very clear instructions. An example might be “please come to my house Saturday at 10 am and throw away anything in the refrigerator that has gone bad or is going bad, or that is very perishable and you can’t tell. Please change my sheets. Please run the laundry and put his clothes away in his dresser, as best as you can tell where things go. Leave my clothes on the bed and I will put them away. Please clear off the top of his dresser and put the things in a box and leave them in x closet. Please find all the condolence cards and put them in a shoebox and leave them in x closet. Please throw out any dead flower or plants, and water the rest of the plants.”
Or whatever you need done. If something is too painful for you to look at every day (his suits, his coats, his bike, etc), but you think you or a family member might want them someday, ask the friend to box them up and store them in their garage until you are ready to deal with them.
These are all things that people have done for me after a loss and I promise you, your friends will be so, so grateful that they can do them for you. They are aching to help you but may not know how- they will appreciate your guidance. And it will give you space to grieve in a healthier environment.
The original Scarlett
No advice, reading late and couldn’t not just say I’m so sorry you’re going through this, my hearts breaks for you and sending love
Anonymous
In the book The Year of Magical Thinking, Joan Didion writes about not being able to get rid of her husband’s shoes after he passed because what if he came back and suddenly needed them. So much of what happens in grief doesn’t make sense and that’s ok. A lot of this can wait and you don’t have to make decisions now. Although if your friends want to help, I’m sure they would be happy to come clean out your fridge, or move some things where they are out of view but in a place where you can still access them. I’m so sorry. Be gentle with yourself.