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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m absolutely in love with this purple top from Boss. The color is gorgeous, the fabric is so elegant, and the mock-neck cut is incredibly flattering.
If you’re into a monochromatic look, there is a matching pair of wide-leg pants ($298) available, too.
The top is $248 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 0–18.
Two more affordable options are from Banana Republic (XXS–XL, $20 on sale) and Nation LTD (S–XL, on sale for $41 at Revolve).
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Anon
Chapter 13 here (I know one of you suggested I pick a handle but I think this is the easiest identifier and I don’t mind it). Payment 5/60 just went through. Somehow, I thought I’d have glowing updates for you all by now, but so far the things I’ve posted about have fallen through…I didn’t get the job I posted about in Manhattan (which would have been a complicated move anyway), my recent attempt at transferring units in my building to reduce rent didn’t work out. That said, I’m in pursuit of a new attempt to reduce housing costs and I’d appreciate your thoughts/prayers/vibes. I found an apartment that is FAR lower in cost than my current place but is still a nice unit and area (my Ch. 13 plan is 100% so any I get to keep any funds leftover from budget adjustments). My current rent is fairly high and I want to downsize and save. I also don’t really like my apartment and there are things about it that factor into my depression (i.e. lack of sunlight). I applied for the apartment this morning and of course selected ‘yes’ for the bankruptcy question and input the information. It ended up saying my application requires further review, no surprise there. There is a good chance it will be denied because it’s in a big apartment building, but I’m hoping maybe my income and good rental history will help. Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts and I will let you know what happens!
Vicky Austin
You sound like you’re optimistic, which is awesome! I’m sorry your Manhattan opportunity didn’t work out, but the road forward can be twisty and you never know what other wonderful thing might be coming. Thinking of you!
Anon
Sending good thoughts your way!
Anon
I’m crossing my fingers that you get the new apartment.
Anonymous
Well, that was fast. My application was denied.
Anon
I’m so sorry. This is very hard. I was hoping that a large company might be more willing to take a chance. But maybe a smaller landlord might be more flexible.
When I was looking, and in tight financial situations, I would walk around the neighborhood I wanted to live, and look for “For Rent” signs and approach buildings directly. It takes time, but I found the best things that way.
Good luck. Keep trying.
Anon
I appreciate that. I’ve only ever rented through large buildings so I’m a little scared of this method…I’ve heard some horror stories about crazy landlords. I’m open to it though if you all think that’s a good way to go. I’m fine per se in my current building, but just feel like I’m paying way too much in rent given my current situation.
Anon
I think your instinct of trying to move is spot on. It is your biggest expense, and if there are cheaper options that work for you, you should go for it.
I’ve pretty much always worked with smaller landlords. Apartments tend to be cheaper. I am not cookie cutter high-rise fan. I love older buildings, and have found the apartments often have more space/closets/interesting built-in touches. And I’ve heard more horror stories about crazy tenants than crazy landlords! I think I am a pretty mellow tenant, not demanding. In fact, in general the middle aged woman is considered the best tenant. We don’t tend to trash the place, play loud music etc… I usually set up autopay from my bank so that the rent is always on time, and even offer to pay extra up front if needed.
I do ask a lot of questions when I rent, and try to talk to a neighbor to get an inside scoop.
HFB
I have always rented from smaller landlords in small buildings and my experience was that they were much more invested in repairing and maintain the property and much more willing to negotiate small things like occasionally letting you use their parking space and such. I also am a housing attorney and the real slumlords are the medium- large property owners. Point is, good/bad landlord is luck of the draw regardless of size! No harm in trying something new. Good luck!
pugsnbourbon
Oh man, I really hope you get that place! Sending good vibes your way.
pugsnbourbon
Oh I just saw that they rejected you. Could you try calling the management company? Maybe see if they’d accept a co-signer, references, or proof that you’re in a repayment plan?
Vicky Austin
Ooh, I hope something like this works! Or if not, that you can bust it out for next time. Good thoughts, Ch. 13!
Anon
I haven’t, but that’s a thought. The rejection report states “credit score” as the reason, with a reported score of 670. That doesn’t seem that low to me for an apartment, but I guess it is for them. It goes on to say “key factors adversely affecting your credit score: – there is a bankruptcy on your credit report, – lack of sufficient credit history, – the date that you opened your oldest account is too recent, – newest delinquent/derogatory payment status on your accounts is too recent.”
Anon
I had a friend who declared bankruptcy in 2012 and her experience was that the bankruptcy was a huge red flag to anyone she tried to rent from (or borrow money from, even for necessities). These days, a 670 score is objectively low, but I would bet the flag was the (relatively recent) bankruptcy filing.
I also agree that moving sounds like the right move but you probably will need to find a co-signer who can guarantee your application. If there’s anyone in your life you can ask about that – start asking now.
Anon
Well, that was fast. My application was denied. (This might post twice as my phone wiped out my name/email for some reason).
Anon
A couple of thoughts, I don’t recall the whole story but is there someone in your life who could co-sign for you? So you don’t need to check the box? You may also want to consider a smaller building that’s not professionally managed and not checking the box going forward.
Anon
I think if you often and wish you good luck! It’s not an easy situation bit you’re doing all the right steps and one day, all this will be over. You will be richer for the experience and in a better place. Fingers crossed!
anon DC
Morning! Dreaming of vacation – please help me plan a family trip to Puerto Rico. It will be me, my husband, and two kids (5 and 8) for a week in April. We would like to hike the jungle, see the bioluminescent bay, swim and snorkel. I have no idea where to stay to make these activities easy. Not sure if a resort will be worth it if we are out doing activities. Also, should we do the bio bay in Fajardo or Vieques? Thank you all-knowing and ever-helpful hive!
Anon
Re bio bay. Fajardo is easier, it’s only an hour from San Juan so you can just drive over there for the day. Vieques is more of a production to get to and would probably require an overnight stay.
Set your expectations low for beaches and snorkeling. There are way better Caribbean islands for that and if you’ve snorkeled anywhere else in the Caribbean or Hawaii you’ll likely be disappointed.
Anon
Agree that PR beaches are meh, but the bioluminescent bay is one of the coolest things I’ve ever done. The beaches on Vieques were really nice, but agree that it’s a pain to drive and take the ferry to there. I’d honestly pick another island if you’re optimizing for beaches/marine life.
Anon
Agree, the bio bay is super cool! And the rainforest. I just wouldn’t have high expectations for the snorkeling, although I haven’t been to Vieques and have heard that’s better than mainland PR.
Cat
Vieques was just OK IMHO.
For hiking and swimming & snorkeling I’d probably go to St. John instead of PR.
Anon
Yes, I LOVE St. John. St. Croix is great too.
Gail the Goldfish
I’ve been to Vieques a fair bit and have basically done this trip minus the kids. I haven’t done the Biobay at Fajardo, but the one at Vieques is super cool (they say it’s brighter than the one at Fajardo). Get a clear-bottom kayak (we use JAKS water sports) and go whatever night is closest to a new moon so it’s dark. I’d spend most your time in Vieques, then tack on a day or two based in San Juan and drive to el Yunque for hikes; it’s not far. One time we flew from Vieques to Ceiba and rented a car and drove from there as the rain forest is on the way, but I am not sure that car rental still exists. I will say snorkeling in Vieques is not that great compared to say, St. John. But go with a company and they might have better spots–we just snorkeled from shore and there are a couple of beaches we couldn’t get to on our own due to rental car restrictions (some of the roads on Vieques are not great). The beaches are gorgeous, but one thing to be aware of is that except for Sun Bay and Red/Caracas Beach, they don’t have bathrooms or other facilities, so you have to bring snacks/chairs/etc. with you. Sun Bay has bathrooms and a cafe that’s occasionally open. Caracas has a national park-style pit toilet and picnic shelters. Some of the Blue/Chiva beach spots have picnic shelters. There’s also a bathroom on the main road in the wildlife refuge before you get to the beaches. I love, love, love Vieques, but I think people need to know what they are getting into–it is not a built up resort area. Also, if you go, you need to call like yesterday to reserve a car. They sell out in high season.
Gail the Goldfish
Oh, and definitely fly to Vieques, don’t take the ferry. If you have a fear of small planes, this is not the trip for you. I have also been to St. John and agree it might be a better fit for you (I actually like Vieques more because it’s less crowded, but St. John does have much better snorkeling and is logistically a little easier. ANd it’s not crowded-crowded by any means, Vieques just set my expectations that anything more than like 10 people on a beach is “crowded” :-) ) Same warning about renting a car ASAP applies to St. John, though.
Anon
I think St. John is pretty crowded these days. Maybe it’s better now with more people returning to international travel but I heard from people who went in both 2021 and 2022 that it was super crowded, I guess because a lot of people wanted to travel post-vax but weren’t ready to leave the country yet. Although PR would likely have the same issue. I went in early 2022 but we were on a yacht so crowds were not an issue. :)
Anonymous
I went to St. John in 2021 and Vieques in 2022. I’d say St. John was crowded-ish, but not packed by any means like you see even on some Florida/SC/NC beaches. Vieques was its usual not crowded self. The lack of major hotels really helps it.
Anonymous
I have been out of law school about ten years. I am a partner at a midsize regional law firm in the Midwest. My firm continues to shrink as large billers die (we do not have good succession planning for client work, and it’s hurting us). Unfortunately, I don’t see that improving much. I am curious about an area that’s about 10% of my practice. It’s an area of law that will change and be around the rest of my career. I am keeping an eye out for in house roles (which exist), but I don’t know enough people to have an “in” applying. Is it a crazy risk to consider taking a mid level associate role at a biglaw firm for a few years to get the training? I know hours would be a lot, I am willing to move to a specific city, I know it would look like a career hit on paper but it would actually be a pay increase.
Anonymous
I think it would be miserable
Anon
Don’t do it
Anon
What practice area are you talking about?
Initial thoughts, 10 years in is still mid level so I don’t see your plan as moving backwards or anything. Big firms are great training grounds and easy to move in-house from. That said, an in-house move is also very practice area dependent so hard to advise further without knowing what you’re actually thinking about.
Anonymous
I did it – don’t recommend. It was really difficult to adjust to the title demotion. Also everyone who didn’t know my story assumed I got bounced from my old firm
Ellen
I would stay put and keep looking for the right in-house job, even if you are single and presumably mobile for the right job. If you go in-house, you will be able to have regular hours, and have the opportunity to have personal time not available to you if you are in a firm. At this point in your career, you should be looking to start coasting, or at least not working harder. I am probably older than you but b/c I am in a firm where I have become the primary biller, I have to run faster and jump higher then any one else, even if I am a partner. In 10 years, unless I become a judge or a law professor, I envison myself working just as hard as now, if not harder, unless we get at least 1 or 2 billers as good as I am, but that does not appear promising since the Gen Z’s we see are incredibly self-centered, entitled, and frankly, pretty lazy. My former associate was a millenial, but had alot of Gen Z tendencies, and we are not able to find any associates (good or bad) who are willing to work in-office 5 days a week, as I am now back doing, since they need VERY close supervision.
No Face
The better bet is networking in that practice area. If the practice area has conferences, start attending those conferences and get to know people. Host a virtual CLE in the area to get your name out there.
If you switch firms, there is no need to take an associate title, even if you are doing associate level work.
bluebonnetanon
Do you really think you would have to go in as an associate? Would Counsel not be an option for you? I don’t know what area you are thinking or what firm but maybe spend the next 6 months really working and networking in that area and then try a move into a smaller BL (think V100 instead of V10) as counsel?
Anon
Yeah, ex-big law partner here – you should not accept an associate role. Counsel is a better bet for what you’re describing. Given that you don’t have a ton of experience in this area, the pay package may not be better than an associate role but potential for advancement will be.
Anon
I love the color. I’m sure I’d wreck it with a grease / lunch stain in a hot minute (#printsforever). But can we just not with this sleeve-ish thing going on? You still get deodorant stains everywhere. And it wrinkles weirdly. Sleeve or no sleeve. But not sleeve-ish, pls.
Monday
Funny–sleeve-ish is my ideal for a warm-weather top if I’m working, because there’s no chance of bra strap showing. So many sleeveless shirts accidentally expose my bra straps.
Anon
I want an actual sleeve so it traps deodorant vs staining my jacket.
Anonymous
agree, love the color but would prefer if this was a short sleeve top.
Anonymous
I love this top. The cap sleeves are very flattering to my muscular arms and also hide some scarring on my shoulders that prevent me from wearing true sleeveless tops.And I don’t have the deodorant problem you mention. I wear invisible deodorant and don’t use a heavy amount.
Cat
+1, this type of sleeve is super flattering on me. I would wear this alone in mild weather. Would not use it for layering with a suit jacket since I do prefer a full layer of fabric to prolong dry cleaning.
Anonymous
I find that cap sleeves cut across the middle of my shoulder in a way that makes me look less muscular, not more.
Anon
+1 – sleeveish is terrible
Anon
+2 no to sleevish
Anon
I haven’t worn high wedges since before COVID. Last week though, I saw a woman in my elevator bank wearing a pair of heeled black patent wedges and all of a sudden I really liked them again. I mean, I love flats now, but it is hard for me to find good ones (triangular duck feet means that anything tight enough to stay on is often tight enough to be its own sort of uncomfortable) that are suitable for work outfits (which are formal up top, and then more fluid in formality as we get closer to the feet). Thoughts?
anon
I personally don’t think wedges are a major faux pas. Are they the silhouette of the moment? No, but I don’t find them off-putting, either. I also have duck feet and pure flats are a STRUGGLE unless they’re a loafer that covers most of the foot (and keeps them on my feet). I don’t even bother anymore after wasting lots of money on flats that hurt my feet and don’t stay on anyway.
Anon
I hate flats so much. I like wedges in theory but have trouble finding ones that look current. For work, I currently wear low-heeled booties most days. In the summer I wear sandals (usually with a low heel). For the brief in between period, loafers and mules.
anon
Sounds like we have very similar shoe preferences! Are you finding anything fun for spring? Part of me would really like a pair of light blue or light pink loafers, just to switch things up from my usual neutrals.
anon
Same. Flats are painful, wedges are what I wore as an intern in 2014. Patent wedges are especially dated. I find block heels are plenty comfortable and I choose ones with ankle straps to keep my duck feet secure.
Anon
I have some and like them. I’m also wearing heels again for the same issues with flats mentioned.
pugsnbourbon
I had a pair of black, faux-suede wedges that were sort of a pointy d’orsay style with an ankle strap. I wore those for every “dress up” day between 2015 and 2019. They were so comfortable! I don’t think they’re super current, but if you find a pair you like, get them. Everything comes back around anyway.
Trish
Wedges should never got out of style. Perfect shoe for height and comfort. If we all wear them, they aren’t out of style.
Seventh Sister
I loved high-ish wedges and regret not buying an extra pair or two when they were easier to find. They seem classic enough for my formal but not-very-fashionable workplace so I say go for it.
Anonymous
Cole Haan has some low wedges.
Anon
I wear wedges. Mostly Fly London. They’re kind of like Fluevogs in that they’re slightly funky looking shoes that aren’t either in style or out of style. They just are what they are. I don’t care. The footbed works for my fussy feet and I have them in lots of colors and styles.
If you like the wedge, wear the wedge. Unless you’re trying to be an influencer, no one cares.
Anon
What are your go to Starbucks orders? I can start. An americano w sugar free vanilla and steamed soy milk. Today I tried to switch things up and ordered a vanilla sweet cream nitro cold brew
anon
A medium whatever is the dark brew that day,
Anon
I don’t drink coffee but I love Starbucks because they’re one of the few coffee chains that has lots of non-coffee options. I like a chai latte or a London fog in the winter, or a passion tea lemonade or just an iced black tea in the summer.
anon
I’m also a big fan of the Refreshers. They’re very satisfying on a hot day.
Vicky Austin
I love a London Fog – they’re good iced too.
PolyD
Curious about the London Fog – what is it?
I usually get a soy latte at Starbucks. I drink regular milk everywhere else, but the sweetness of the soy milk goes well with the extra roasted/burnt flavor of Starbucks coffee.
The Nordstrom coffee stand by me has, or had, a latte made with brown sugar syrup, and if you asked them to use half the usual syrup, it was really good.
Anon
A London fog is earl grey tea with steamed milk and vanilla syrup. So like a latte but with tea.
Vicky Austin
What Anon @ 9:57 said – I love Earl Grey so I love the taste of a LF and Starbucks does a pretty good one. The best ones have a hint of lavender.
Anon
@Vicky Austin – a local coffee place near me does a lavender fog and it’s to die for but it’s sadly seasonal!
Anonymous
The cool lime refresher used to be my jam and I don’t think I’ll ever get over it’s retirement,
Anon
Medium iced latte with 2%.
helloanon
I tend to visit Sbux more during summer or when I want an iced drink, so my usual is an Iced Americano with 2 pumps mocha syrup an a splash of half and half.
KS IT Chick
Brewed coffee, non-fat milk, vanilla syrup. Extra milk and sugar.
Gigi
Love their iced brown sugar oatmilk shaken expresso
pugsnbourbon
I wanted to like that but it had a weird under-flavor to me. Usually I like to try their seasonal iced drinks.
Anonymous
Espresso
Anon
Once it’s iced and shaken with brown sugar and oatmeal, I think we can call it expresso.
Anon
Hahaha spot on
Anonymous
hot or iced mocha made with coconut milk
Anon
Flat white with oat milk, extra hot.
emeralds
A tall one-pump PSL with no whip when it’s in season. Otherwise a standard tall latte, or occasionally a nitro cold brew over the summer but I have to decide it’s worth the caffeine jitters.
bluebonnetanon
Mine is always the same and also $6.44 so I do it less than 5 times a month which feels like a win because it was daily in a previous life.
Triple venti nonfat 2 splenda latte
Anonymous
Black coffee.
No chocolate undertones in the beans, no sweeteners, syrups, creams or anything other than a mildly roasted, nutty bean.
Anon
Venti black iced tea unsweetened.
But if I’m being indulgent, a grande mocha.
I don’t go to Starbucks very often. I make 99% of my caffeinated beverages at home. I am an Earl Grey tea fan for warm beverages – steep 3 minutes, one sugar in the raw packet.
ATL
Venti flat white with soy milk. Maybe two pumps of vanilla if I want to be fancy.
Anon
Vanilla Sweet Cream Cold Brew – only 1 pump vanilla
White chocolate mocha w/ mods:
– 3 shots
– coconut milk
– 1 pump of white chocolate syrup
– no whip
Anonymous
Chai.
I used to get a london fog, but now I buy the vanilla syrup and make my own at home with my milk frother.
During the holidays I get a peppermint white hot chocolate or a caramel brulee without espresso.
Anan
They used to make a chocolate banana smoothie that I loved, but sadly not anymore.
Anonymous
I hate Starbucks. Sorry!
Florida
Recommendations for a Florida hotel or resort on the beach 30 minutes from an airport in Florida?
Cat
Budget?
In general, PBI and FLL are both quick drives to the coast; Palm Beach offers high-end properties while Ft Laud has a wider range. The larger the city – like Miami, Tampa – the more irritating traffic on the way.
Anon
Agreed that Miami and Tampa have more traffic, but you can still find nice properties within 30 minutes of the airport, especially if you time your flight to avoid rush hour.
Ellen
There are many, but it depends on where you want to go and how much you want to spend. Do you want luxury, or are you more of a Motel 6 person? Are you planning on lounging about the hotel, or a snorkeler? Do you want to meet older men interested in a relationship, or a hot young guy who will give you a night to remember w/o any STDs? The choice is yours, but I would opt for the Palm Beach area, where there is quality, quantity and good food.
Anon
Which airport and when (we’re getting close to spring break season)? Florida is a big place.
LadyB
Don Cesar on St Pete Beach. Fly into TPA
Anon
We loved One Hotel South Beach and it should take less than 30 minutes to drive from MIA, unless you arrive right at rush hour.
nuqotw
Fort Lauderdale has lots of hotels like this.
Anonymous
I think you could find that in Sarasota.
anon
Marriott Harbor Beach, FLL. So easy to get in/out of and has everything you need. Note that it’s ON the beach. a lot of FLL hotels require crossing A1A. not the end of the world, but if direct beach access is a preference, this one has it.
ChiAnon
Depending on budget, Sand Pearl on Clearwater Beach is amazing (but $$$)
IL
The Hilton Sandestin or any of the other resorts right there are nice, and they are right up on the beach. You just walk out the hotel lobby, slip off your shoes, and you are in the sand.
anon
I saw a woman in a midi length dress that I just have to have! It was a very stylish cut with slightly poufed sleeves and a v neck, black with white window pane print. She looked perfectly appropriate for the women’s luncheon I was attending but her dress would have worked just as well in the office, which is why I want it. Any leads?
Anon
This? https://www.dillards.com/p/dkny-satin-crepe-windowpane-print-v-neck-short-puff-sleeve-belted-a-line-dress/514837238
PolyD
Not the OP and I have no need for such a dress, but I really like it!
anon
You are a shopping ninja!
They don’t have my size, but I may scoot over to my Dillards to try to find it in person. And PSA, this dress looked even better in the wild than it does on the site!
Anon
I am not the OP but am amazed someone found a dress matching the description exactly. Well done! I hope it’s the right one
pugsnbourbon
Damn you’re good! That’s a cute dress.
Anon
In 15 minutes?! You’re amazing!
Elbe
Ugh! Did you see the back? Plaids have to match at the seams.
Anon
Get the dress.
Anonymous
Sounds like a nap dress.
Scotland
Anyone want to help me plan a multigenerational trip to Scotland this summer? We will have our young kids (2 and 6), DH and me, and my parents (60s). We are planning to go for 10 days or so and split our time between Edinburgh and the highlands. Trip will either be in late June or early August. Annnnd that’s as far as I’ve gotten. Any suggestions of places to go, things to do, tips, etc? This will be our first international trip with the kids, and my parents rarely travel.
Cb
Late June, August is so, so busy with the festival. It’s prior to the Scottish school holidays and it’ll be a bit quieter. You can rent an apartment, or an aparthotel, which will be nicer than a hotel for kids those ages. Edinburgh is a fab city with kids… the National Museum of Scotland (free, and something for everyone), Dynamic Earth, riding the trams. If you didn’t mind getting a bus into the city centre, I’d stay in Portobello.
anon
I’m tired all the time, despite having a healthy lifestyle. Married, two kids, mid-management job, early 40s. Is this just how things are? I go back and forth between thinking it’s not normal to be dragging by 7 p.m. every night, and then remembering that I actually have a lot on my plate. IDK. I’ve blown off my morning workouts for the past couple of weeks because I’ve needed the sleep more. One of my kids (a teen) is always on my case about not having boundless energy. Look, kid, I’m doing fine in the morning while you’re sleeping in. If you don’t want to hang out with me until 9 p.m. and I’m dozing off, I’m not sure what to tell you!
Anonymous
The teen complaints about parental energy levels are the worst. Kid, do you realize that you are the reason I am exhausted? It reminds me of the person who posted here once complaining that her own mother had been lazy because she wasn’t like a friend’s mother who woke up at 4:00 every day to run, bake from scratch for her kids’ breakfast, put on a cute outfit and do her makeup and hair, and then work all day at a high-powered job.
anon
Oh, it is galling. And I have called it out before. Kid, I am doing a LOT in order for you to be raised well and have a nice life. It’s a constant feeling of never being enough.
Trish
It was my mother who gave me grief about not doing enough for her when I had a teenager and full time job. When she was the same age, she didn’t have a kid and she quit her job.
Anon
There were a lot of discussions about this last week. The usual culprits are low iron, low ferretin, thyroid issues, vitamin deficiencies, and hormonal issues associated with peri menopause.
Anon
And also…. aging.
Anon
Is anyone here truly old enough to be tired from just aging?
I feel like this is just an excuse doctors use when they don’t want to help us out more. I know plenty of people much older than me who are high energy.
OOO
If you are feeling tired all the time, schedule an appointment with your doctor. I have hypothyroidism which makes me feel tired if I don’t take my meds, but it didn’t come on suddenly like what you’re describing.
anon
I’d say it’s been more acute in the past few weeks, but it’s not a new thing. :(
maybe
definitely worth some blood work to check B12, iron, D, etc. There’s normal “i’m tired all the time” and then there’s “want to go to bed at 7 every night” and I think those are different things in my mind! All of those things are easily addressed by supplements so it is worth starting there! good luck.
Anon
If it’s just the past few weeks, consider allergies. Are you having an early spring where you are? Allergies always zap my energy, even if I’m not actively sneezing, etc.
Anon
Same! I have found Allegra is my favorite antihistamine for fighting the allergies fatigue without signing on to antihistamine sleepiness.
Anonymous
Are your kids sick? I definitely feel like this when I’m fighting off a cold and thanks to kids, this time of year is rife with colds to fight off.
Anon
This is just perimenopause I think.
Anonymous
Or parenthood. When my kid is away at camp I have a whole lot more energy.
Anon
Or just life in general.
Anon
All the things mentioned, but we’re also coming out of a weird period post pandemic. There were long periods there where activity was curtailed, worked moved to home and the energy you needed to get through the day was muted. Coming back to normal is hard.
Sunshine
I do 5am or 6am workouts about 5x per week. By 8pm, I’m ready to go to bed. That’s just how this works. To get a full night of sleep and get up for my morning workouts (which I love), I go to bed early. This is actually how I have been my whole live. My mom says I was always the first kid to go to sleep at home and at any slumber party. I’m a morning person who goes to bed early. That lifestyle then fits with my enjoyment of early morning workouts. For what it’s worth, I am in my early 40s without kids. This is who I am. Maybe this is who you are?
anon
Very well said, Sunshine. I’m also a morning person, always have been. I need to get to sleep early or I won’t be well rested and the rest of my life won’t go as well (I’ll be less happy, less energy to make food, worse food choices, etc., all of which probably make me feel crummier).
Smokey
I remember feeling like this a lot when I was younger, working full time and raising two kids. I often wonder how I did it. As I got more senior at work, the job got easier and the kids eventually grew up and moved away from home. I now have so much less stress in my life, with more time to exercise and relax, and I have so much more energy even though I’m a lot older. Full time parenting while holding down a paid job can be exhausting! But get the medical things checked out as well.
Liza
Please remember that human beings are not built to stay up long past dark. Our ancestors rose and went to sleep with the sun, because it wasn’t really possible to do much else. So winding down by around 7 p.m. seems completely reasonable to me.
Anonymous
Good morning! I’d love recommendations for an activity or museum in NYC for a tween. We live in the suburbs and go in fairly frequently; while she loves art, we have done almost all of the museums and a number of gallery visits, so I’m looking for something a little bit different. Originally I was thinking Tenement Museum and Lower East Side, but I just read that they’re under renovations and housed in alternate locations.
In the past she has enjoyed activities that run the gamut from Dylan’s Candy Bar to last summer’s Basquiat exhibit. Open to just about anything, but it’s going to rain, so would like to avoid the Highline or Central Park. Thanks in advance!
Carolyn
I liked the Transit museum in Brooklyn or the Brooklyn museum if you haven’t done those!
Anon
My preschooler loved the tr-nsit museum but I don’t think it would interest a tween.
Anon
I love the International Center of Photography- perhaps you’ve hit this already as a museum but if not, it always has great exhibits.
Anon
PS1 or Museum of the Moving Image in Queens?
Anon
Oh and Museum of the City of New York – it’s kind of run down but if you are into the exhibit it’s a fun little outing.
Anon
Lastly, I loved doing high tea a teen, felt fancy, YMMV.
Anonymous
The subway museum in Brooklyn
The poster museum in Chelsea (short but cool) + a visit to Arctehouse’s latest installation in Chelsea market + lunch at Chelsea market
Hudson yards lookout + see the vessel at Hudson yards + walk down the high line to little island + end at the Whitney or Arctehouse at Chelsea market
The Cloisters (pretty far uptown)
Ellen
There’s the Museum of the American Indian downtown in the old Custom’s house near the Staten Island Ferry. I would take her there, and once she is done with learning about the American Indians, you can both take a free ride on the Staten Island Ferry. In Staten Island, you can also walk to a few great Pizza places before taking the Free ferry home. She can learn something on this outing.
NYCer
Not sure if how old she is, but a few suggestions:
– One World Observatory or Empire State Building (views won’t be 100% clear in the rain, but still good views and indoors)
– Harry Potter store
– Color Factory
– Wonderland Dreams (my kids are younger, but they really liked this)
– Broadway show?
– If you’re feeling fancy, have tea at the Plaza
Anon
I’ve had kids that age enjoy watching a travel or food show and picking a place or two they’d like to go from there. Has she watched Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix? He’s got an NYC episode. They just opened a Museum of Broadway recently that might interest if she’s into theater. (And if you’ve never done the TKTS booth, I know I enjoyed the spontaneity of finding a show last minute when I was a teenager.) Have you done the NYC Historical Society Museum? That one could be fun and is near Alice’s Tea Cup, so you could combine it with afternoon tea and maybe Central Park if there’s a break in the rain.
Anne-on
Is there a niche interest she’s super into? That’s my absolute favorite thing about NYC, got a random interest? 9 times out of ten there’s a store/museum/place allll about it in NYC. Some thoughts – explore Korean skin care/stores together and then grab a boba tea/korean BBQ (in the 30s), hit the strand or a bookstore that fits her interest, if she’s into art maybe browse around the art supplies stores or if she’s into fashion go look at fabrics/trims in the garment district. One of the few ‘cool’ things my mom did as a young teen was to take me to the estee lauder/clinique counter to have the ladiest there teach me how to do a minimal makeup look. Maybe do Bergdorf’s for a makeover/smell the perfumes and then get tea in the salon (which is gorgeous and looks out over central park)
Anonymous
This site is the best! These are great recommendations and I’m keeping a list for our next few trips. Looks like The Color Factory will be perfect for this week. Thank you!
NYCer
Enjoy! It’s an easy walk to Soho or the West Village if you want to grab a bite before or after. There is also a Shake Shack a block away.
Anon
I love Shake Shack. Although it’s expanded a lot recently and OP may have one near here. I live in the middle of nowhere and our airport has a Shake Shack.
Seventh Sister
My young teen loved The Strand bookstore and Kinokuniya in Bryant Park.
Cb
2023 and I just logged onto a Zoom call with 100 people and loudly grumbled to my husband about my docking station sound not working. It’s a webinar so I assumed it would be set up as such, with videos and mics of for everyone.
Velma
My sympathies! Maybe set your own Zoom preferences to enter all meetings muted and camera off. That’s my fallback position.
anonshmanon
Of all the hot mic possibilities, this must be the least embarrassing thing to grumble about!
Anonymous
My husband was on a mediation call when I came inside with the dog, removed the dog’s jacket and collar and loudly yelled “it’s naked time”–I think you got off easy with docking station grumbles. ;)
Vicky Austin
LOLOL!
My old boss used to WFH pre-pandemic if she had a sick kid, and she was once on a big call when her younger daughter burst into the room hollering, “MOM I DID A POO IN THE POTTY!” before she could mute.
pugsnbourbon
Where I work now, NO ONE turns on their cameras – ever! I’ve never seen the faces of some of the people I work with daily. In my prior job we almost always had them on (my boss was very … expressive). I miss seeing my old coworker’s adorable four-year-old wander in and out of the frame. And cats, I loved seeing cats!
anon
LOLOLOL. This is fantastic.
Anon
You know what, that’s on the organizers! It’s 2023, they can set up their Zoom meeting correctly if they don’t want that to happen.
Cb
That’s what I thought too. It was a fairly high profile event with some contentious topics/speakers, so the fact that anyone could unmute themselves and shout abuse seemed bananas.
Rom Com or Horror Movie?
Has anyone used travel mode on a dating app to date while traveling? I’ll be in a UK city next month for work and thought it would be fun to meet up with a local for a drink – I would pick a public place and keep it short. Just thought it could help break up the monotony of a work trip. Any thoughts? Advice? UK posters – do yall use Bumble?
Anon
The assumption is going to be that you’re looking for one night gardening. Which, if you are, more power to ya! But I don’t think you’re going to successfully get a quick flirty drink if that’s what you’re looking for.
Anon
This.
Anon
Agreed, the only people I know who’ve done this wanted one night stands.
Anon
I used Bumble in Italy, got a ton of matches after 30 min of swiping, and went on a drinks date with a local who works as a translator in academia. No gardening. We took a walk after the date to some beautiful local gardens, and that was it. We texted on Whatsapp for a brief while after and it faded away. I had a fun practicing my Italian (he also was fluent in English and 2 other languages for when I was lost), and it’s an interesting memory!
Anon
Yea you don’t have to necessarily engage in gardening but I would 100% be upfront about that because you don’t want to end up in an uncomfortable or unsafe situation. Use common sense. Don’t meet up for just a drink at 10pm. Try to go out to lunch or dinner and don’t drink too much. Do a fun activity with them, ask for suggestions, and be mindful of your whereabouts. Don’t go to a sketchy part of the city with a stranger.
emeralds
I haven’t personally, but I know people who have used Tinder for this purpose in Europe. Some gardened, some didn’t. YMMV.
Curious
My friend actually met his wife this way on Tinder. Improbable, but hey!
Anon
I don’t see what the point is if you’re looking for a relationship. Or if your date is looking for a relationship. Maybe it will work but I don’t get it.
Anon
She says pretty clearly in the post that she’s not looking for a relationship. Sometimes we just want a flirty evening with a new person!
Anon
I’m suggesting she is potentially wasting the other person’s time.
Anon
I’m not sure if you’ve ever been on dating apps before, but no one who is looking for a relationship will be tricked by someone who says “I’m in London for 3 days and just want a fun hangout.” It’s blindingly obvious what’s going on.
Anon
Ummm a really shockingly large percentage of men on dating apps are not actually looking for a relationship, even if they say otherwise. I think the last thing OP needs to worry about is “wasting someone else’s time.”
Anon
Obviously lots of men on apps aren’t looking for a relationship, but those men are looking for gardening or at least related activities. I’ve never met a guy who wanted a “flirty drink” and nothing more.
thanksgiving anxiety
Yea plus assuming she’s dating men I’m like 0% concerned about their time being wasted
Anon
At what point in your life (age, income level, whatever) were you able to take an annual vacation? Not traveling home to visit family, visiting college friends in another city, or traveling for things like weddings?
I’m having one of those moments where it feels like everyone is traveling except me! I’m 29, make 75k in a M/HCOL area so it feels like it should be doable but it isn’t. My family lives locally and most of my non-local friends live 2-3 hours away so that travel requires no PTO and less than $50 in gas/tolls but it’s all I can manage.
It feels like all the travel I get to do is for weddings, but that isn’t even much (most of my friends are still single, most weddings I do have are local). For example, I’m going to 3 weddings this year. Two are at venues walkable from my apartment and 1 requires a flight (I will be spending about 40 hours in Raleigh). I have one 3 day bachelorette party in Arizona and that is it.
I love traveling both domestically and internationally and enjoy all sorts of trips (hiking and camping, cities, road trips, everything). But I feel like I can never justify the time, the expense, or both! I get 3 weeks PTO and do have the Chase Sapphire card so I should travel more and I yet I can’t pull the trigger. I am trying to aggressively pay down student loans and rebuild savings so I am living on a budget.
anon
I don’t have any great answers for you, but I want to validate your feelings that travel seems out of reach. I’m established in my career and I still have sticker shock every single time I book a vacation. These days, it’s an annual family vacation, and we’re not doing anything extravagant. And that doesn’t factor in the time it takes to plan, be away from work, and then reacclimate to normal life. Given all that, I travel less often than I’d like to. I know several people who are seemingly traveling constantly and wonder HOW they’re accomplishing that. (Sounds exhausting, honestly.)
Cat
As far as frequent travel (I’m guessing I’d fall in this camp as you define it; we usually have something on the books probably 9 months out of the year, sometimes a longer trip but more often long weekends)… when you do it often, you’re better at it – whether the planning, light work maintenance while away, or reacclimating.
Anon
Same from another person who goes somewhere almost once a month.
Anon
Just travel! Travel cheaply, travel to destinations where things are cheap, stay in basic, safe, clean accommodations, eat grocery store meals, take buses/public transit everywhere, pack only a carry on. That kind of travel has an expiration date and it is beyond worth doing before that date arrives.
OP
When I do travel, that’s what I do (2 week long trips and 2 weekend trips that required a flight in the 8 years I’ve been in the workforce). I fly Spirit, pack in a personal item, split a cheaper but safe hotel with a friend, walk/take public transit (the only time I rented a car was on a national park hiking trip). Really the only thing I don’t do is grocery store food because enjoying local food is a huge part of traveling for me!
However, even these cheap trips are usually $500+ for a long weekend and $1,000+ for a week and that’s still a lot.
Cat
I remember wryly laughing once I’d paid off my student loans in Biglaw that I now had the budget but not the time (vs. the extended breaks during school).
Weekend trips still disrupt your rhythm – packing, not doing the life maintenance you’d normally be doing – so I wouldn’t write them off as “not travel” just because they don’t feel adventurous! How would your non-local friends feel about a ‘destination reunion’ like a long weekend in a new city?
OP
I guess I have trouble justifying the $500 for a destination meet up when I can buy a $50 bus ticket to see a friend and crash at their apartment
Anon
Then don’t do it! There’s no reason you have to travel.
OP
I really, really like it though! There’s so much to see and do and experience and I don’t want to just sit at home! I just get caught in an anxiety spiral about spending the money.
Anon
I feel like your comments on this thread are not giving that message though. You said “I have trouble justifying the $500 for a destination meet up when I can buy a $50 bus ticket to see a friend and crash at their apartment.” If you loved travel, you wouldn’t feel that way. It’s perfectly ok to not love travel! But from your comments doesn’t sound to me like you “really, really like it.” I love travel and have always prioritized it above almost everything else, and so I’ve always traveled regularly, even when I was a student. It is totally possible to travel on a $75k income. But you don’t need to, if you have different budget priorities.
OP
I mean when I do it I love it and I’m so happy to have done it and when I’m stuck at home I get antsy and wish I was able to travel. For me it’s not $500 to do something boring vs $500 to travel. It’s more that I’m not currently in a position where I feel comfortable dropping $500 on anything. If going somewhere new cost the same same as going to see a friend, it’s a no brainer. I just don’t have much disposable income right now.
Anon
I feel like there’s some deeper financial anxiety going on here. I don’t know anyone who thinks this hard about travel spending. They either don’t care about traveling and don’t prioritize it, or they do want to travel so they budget for it and go.
OP
I admit I do have some financial anxiety but I think I’m also maybe in a different financial place than others here. Like any unexpected purchase over like $75 requires thought. So yes, buying a flight requires a lot thought and planning.
Like, I have thought about getting a pedicure as a treat for about a month but needed to “free up” some room in my monthly budget first. I ended up talking myself out of it because I’m getting a mani/pedi in April before the bachlorette party and convinced myself to wait til then. If I can’t get a pedicure on a whim, I can’t travel on a whim
Anon
I agree most people here are in a different income bracket than you, but everyone was a student once and there are many people here who put themselves through school and many who worked our way up from entry level jobs paying $75k or less. I understand you can’t drop $2k at the drop of a hat, but I still think the degree to which you’re analyzing this and agonizing over spending even objectively small amounts of money is not normal or healthy and I think it goes beyond just travel.
OP
I admit I have some financial anxiety but I also have $2,000 to my name!
Anon
If you’re stressed out about only having $2k to your name (I would be too), why are you overpaying your loans by $200/month? Pay the minimum on your loans and rebuild your savings.
Anon
I’ve pretty much always taken an annual vacation. In college it was definitely at the budget end of the spectrum, either road trips or going somewhere we scored cheap flights, and staying in hostel type places. I guess I can’t recall any non-family vacations in law school, so maybe I took a break then, but I took a proper vacation my first year out of law school despite being severely under-employed (due to the recession we got $300 round trip tickets to Hawaii). The next year I got a proper job, and since then the frequency and comfort of the travel has increased dramatically.
The using all your time and money to attend weddings thing is real though. We spent a good chunk of our 20s and early 30s flying to several weddings per year, and it really adds up.
The Chase Sapphire probably isn’t worth the annual fee unless you’re traveling a lot. I’d look into downgrading it.
OP
I do feel lucky that most of the weddings I go to are local and easy for me! I “only” have 3 weddings this year and two are walking distance from my apartment! Not only do I not need a flight and a hotel, I don’t even need an Uber! Both local weddings have welcome drinks on Friday and the Saturday wedding, so the money spent on the gift isn’t much more than I’d spend on other plans that weekend. And, I rewear dresses often :)
I have the $95 Chase Sapphire card, and I did use points to book my flight to Raleigh wedding this year, so that paid for itself right there (flights were only like $150, so not bad, but free is still better)!
I feel like I’m in a good spot wedding wise, which many other 29 year olds can’t say, so I feel like I “should” have the time/money to travel yet I don’t.
Anon
Oh yeah I was thinking of the Reserve which has like a $500 annual fee.
Hmm I feel like on $75k and not spending a ton of money traveling to weddings, you should be able to afford at least one decent domestic trip. If you don’t want to travel that’s fine, but if you want to travel and can’t figure out how to find room in the budget then I’d take a hard look at other spending because people at your salary level are definitely taking vacations. My co-worker supports a family of five on a salary of $50k and he takes an annual summer vacation. It usually involves camping and/or hiking in national parks, they’re not going to Europe or staying at the Four Seasons, but they do travel.
OP
I budget very strictly (and check in on my spending in Mint nearly daily) so I know where my money is going and yet I feel like I also don’t. My rent is more than 1/3 take home but is still less than most people I know. I cook 90% of my meals at home. I don’t shop a ton and when I do it’s at cheaper places. Life is just expensive!
And yet it feels like everyone I know travels, puts more in savings, wears nicer clothes than I do, etc.
Anon
I love hiking in national parks, but usually flights to those locations are more, you have to rent a car, not-fancy is accommodations can be pricey because of high demand.
Anon
I would be cautious about looking at other people and wondering how they are doing it. Maybe their families pay for a lot or they have small trust funds. Maybe they save exactly $0 for retirement and therefore have extra money now. Maybe they have tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt. Maybe they have a second job (tutoring is surprisingly lucrative) that is their fun money.
Anon
Most American have at least one national park reasonably close, and you can also do a longer road trip if money is tight. My co-worker that I referenced has definitely done some 1,000+ mile drives with his family.
But also even in this crazy economy when normal plane tickets are through the roof, there are still deals to be had, particularly if you’re flexible about when and where you travel. I took my daughter to Florida in February and we flew into Tampa and the plane tickets cost less than $200 per person. And that was for a real economy ticket (not basic economy) on a real airline (United). If you’re willing to buy basic economy or fly Spirit, you can go for substantially less.
Anon
In my 40s and have still not reached that point. We have three sets of parents to see, all at least 1500 miles away (and 1000 miles from each other). Just seeing our family and friends and going to weddings and funerals or other major events takes up pretty much our entire travel budget, both in terms of time and money. On the plus side, we live somewhere lots of people go on vacation, so we try to make the most of our day to day life.
anon
Years ago, my cousins and I would joke that are friends have these things called “vacations” which we didn’t understand. We were raised with when you have time and money you fly home and help your parents with projects – like you take your PTO but you might help your parents redo a bathroom. In my late 30s, I do better with taking vacations thanks to DH being raised in a family that will take vacations at the expense of seeing family (e.g., MIL deciding to go on vacation at Christmas without extended family).
Anon
I’ve taken at least one large trip yearly since graduating from college (minus the Covid years). Internationally or domestic, solo or with friends/partner. It’s one of those things that’s important to me so I budget for it and just do it. They’re definitely budget trips, I’m usually pretty open to location depending on where there a flight deals.
helloanon
At that salary and stage of life (student loans, multiple weddings per year), I did not take traditional vacations. If I was traveling to a new place for a wedding – even a little lakeside town in the Midwest, I would tack on an extra day to get some fun out of it without blowing the budget. Otherwise, I spent what little travel money I had visiting family in my hometown.
OP
So far, the weddings have all been local or places I have no interest in visiting (like a town in bumblef%#k where the only restaurants are chains located in a stripmall).
In 2024 I have a wedding in Asheville and another in Charlottesville and I do plan on extending those trips for hiking, breweries, and wineries!
anon
I don’t know the places you have no interest in visiting in bumblef%#k. But I love traveling and am the queen of tacking on an extra day of vacation here or there. Surely, there’s something redeeming within a 3-hour drive of these locales. Look more closely at what adventures you may have. To me, that’s part of loving to travel.
OP
For that wedding, there was really not much to do (town population of 800, surrounded by farms) but I did tack on a day in the city I flew into to visit a cousin!
maybe
I’m 44 and never really considered the concept of an annual vacation that I must take. Depending on my stage of life, it has often worked out that way (i.e., late 20s was an annual ski trip for a week with a group of friends for like 5 years straight but that stopped once people got married and had kids) but even now it just depends? I’m not that regimented about it especially post-COVID.
Once you are past the stage of life where you have multiple weddings per year I’m sure you could change it, but I honestly think expecting an annual multi-thousand dollar vacation is not really a thing for most people – I certainly didn’t grow up that way and while I make 6 figures now and have for years it isn’t my expectation now, either!
OP
I don’t think it’s something I must do, nor do I expect to go but I do really love traveling.
OP
And FWIW, the few trips I have taken have all been in the $1,000 range. I find that vacations at that price are harder to find now (or my traveling companions now have higher standards and no longer want to do 4 to a hotel room)
Anon
I was in my mid thirties before I started taking vacations like that. It’s worth it – if you have the money (you aren’t putting it on a credit card in the “not pay it off immediately” sense or tapping your emergency fund), just book it after wedding season.
Anon
I have not reached that point, really. I don’t know how people afford to travel. Of course I make much less money than most people here.
Anon
I make a lot less than most people here and we travel frequently. Obviously there are relevant factors like the cost of living where you live and how many weddings you have to attend (we’re late 30s and near zero on weddings), but a lot of it is priorities. The vast majority of our disposable income goes to travel.
Anon
You have a point. I’m a homebody who is happy with a big trip every few years rather than more frequent trips. Even still, if I did have the $$$ for flights, hotel, etc., I always feel like there’s something else I would rather spend the money on.
Anon2
What level of vacation are you hoping for? I pretty much have always taken a summer vacation – even when making $40K in NYC – but it was to a drivable beach and renting a small cheap house with my boyfriend for a week. Flying destinations were much more rare, and even then we mostly went to Puerto Rico (cheap direct flights) or to places where we could stay with relatives.
Before having kids we did a big trip to France, and haven’t been on an airplane for leisure since! (We still do the local beach for a week trip each summer). The bachelorette and wedding you’re going to don’t seem like they are inconsequential costs; maybe tack on a couple days of “vacation” to one of those
anon
Similar age as you. My friends fly to weddings, bachelorette parties, out of town friends, and just-for-fun trips on top of that. Honestly I suspect they’re not putting much money into their savings account.
I want to push back on the idea that it’s expected for a late twenties person to travel for all the reasons you mentioned AND take separate vacations each year. I don’t know if social media makes this appear normal but three plane trips plus road trips is a lot of travel for a $75k salary. Even if you don’t think of them as “fun” trips they have the same effect on your bank account. Try not to compare yourself to your peers- you never know what’s going on behind the scenes financially.
Anon
+1
That is a ton of money spent on traveling.
Anon
Co-sign this. I have a friend who, at one point about 10 years ago, went to 7 weddings in a year and spent more in one year on travel than we did in probably five years going on family vacations. I completely understand that wedding travel is not the same as regular travel where you’re 100% on your own agenda, but at the same time – that is travel, and it also is a choice to A. make the trip for every single wedding you’re invited to and B. structure those trips so you don’t end up with any spare or downtime to enjoy the destination. When we traveled for weddings, we tried to tack on a day or two before or after the wedding to enjoy wherever we were staying – makes a huge difference.
I also want to just say: when it came time for my friend’s wedding, 5 of the 7 couples he’d traveled to see didn’t travel for his wedding, because they couldn’t make the time or couldn’t afford it. He was bummed, because he’d made significant financial sacrifices to travel so much and then when his time came, people didn’t return the sentiment. P.S., he’s not even really in touch with most of those people any more. So, OP, if you’re doing a lot of wedding traveling thinking this is cementing friendships for the long-term – don’t be surprised if/when that turns out not to be the case. Once people get married and get into their careers and/or have kids, a lot of long-distance friendships go by the wayside. Saying all that to say: if you’d rather take your own vacation instead of spending the money to go to someone’s wedding, do that, and don’t feel guilty about it.
Anon
Unfortunately can co sign this about wedding travel. So many people didn’t bother even trying to make my wedding (late 30s) when I worked a second job to be able to go to theirs.
No matter what, skip the destination parties.
OP
I’m very lucky that my friends are mostly local or local-ish (1-3 hour drive) so wedding travel isn’t an imposition. I think the trip to Raleigh (my only travel wedding this year) will cost about $200 for the hotel (flight paid for with points).
Anon
Moot point since you have the tickets, but you can also save money by driving more and flying less. Looks like Raleigh is <6 hours from Baltimore. When I was at your income level, we drove anything less than 6 hours without even looking at flight prices and depending on flight prices would drive up to 12 hours. It's going to be much cheaper to drive.
OP
Not necessarily – I flew to Ohio last year which was cheaper than gas/tolls the gas/tolls my friend paid to do a similar drive.
I also don’t have a car, so driving is often moody.
I’m single so I go to weddings solo so that means I’m hypothetically paying for all of the gas/tolls/parking but also that I’m doing all of the driving. So up to 12 hours drive one-way isn’t really do-able for a weekend.
anon
I commented above, but is Raleigh one of the places you have no interest in seeing? Tack a day or two onto that trip! Raleigh may not be the most exciting place in the world, but I’m sure you can find something fun to do in Raleigh, Durham, or Chapel Hill, or somewhere in nature outside of those areas. NC has history, art and culture, beautiful state parks, etc.
OP
No – I would be interested in Raleigh but unfortunately due to a work conflict I’m unable to tack any time on. Flying out Friday night after work and flying home late morning on Sunday.
If anyone is familiar with Hazleton, PA, I was at a wedding there a few years back and that’s one of the places I didn’t really have interest in sticking around, for reference. My grandmother grew up there so I’ve been back for family stuff and it’s just not great ( and the cool stuff nearby like Jim Thorpe I’ve done before)
Anon
Wow I would be so hurt if people skipped my wedding like that!
Anon
One thing that helps me spend a large chunk of money is to set it aside specifically for that purpose. Maybe put a certain amount (whatever you can afford) aside out of each paycheck and it’ll be there when you’re ready to travel! At first it might not seem like much, but it could be enough for a long weekend in a nearby fun city or something similar. Then as you pay off your loans, you can up it and do more.
As far as an annual vacation— I never had that growing up and I still don’t. I make just a bit more than you, but I live in a LCOLA. My family growing up couldn’t afford it. My parents sold crafts, so sometimes we’d go to one of the giant yearly craft shows in the state, but even that wasn’t every summer, and they were working, so it wasn’t a vacation for them!
I enjoy traveling, but I find other things relaxing as well, and some years I’d rather spend my limited time and money developing myself in other ways! I feel like sometimes people imply you must travel to be cultured or open minded or “good,” but that’s just not the case. If you love it, budget for it and do it! You won’t regret it. But if you’re otherwise happy, that’s okay too :)
OP
For those of you who don’t travel as much, what do you use your PTO on? I hate nothing more than feeling like I “wasted” my PTO.
I’m childfree and my parents are young and healthy so no caregiving. My entire family lives locally and as stated, friends are either local or an easy / cheap weekend trip so don’t use PTO for that. I’m using 3 days for wedding and bachlorette purposes this year (last year I also used 3 days, used 1 day the year before so this seems to be average). My doctors and my hair stylist have morning/evening hours so I don’t need to take time for appointments. I rent so no home maintenance needs. Hobbies fit into evenings/weekends. I did a staycation and got a massage last year and it was fine but I don’t need to do it again.
Anon
Not taking it is much more of a waste than using it to take the day off and lounge around the house. Maybe you take the last Friday of every month off and just enjoy a more relaxed three day weekend? But also some companies will buy back PTO or let you donate PTO, so I’d consider doing that if you really don’t see a need for all of it.
OP
Oh I always use them, but I took a random week off in December because I had use it or lose it time and it wasn’t very enjoyable to use the time just because I had to
Anon
I dunno, having a week off in December is actually pretty nice. I work for a university so I have a lot of PTO and use most of it on travel, but the university closes between Christmas and New Year’s and I actually prefer to stay home then rather than travel. It’s so nice having uninterrupted time at home, and it’s a fun time of year with all the holiday light displays and winter activities like ice skating and sledding.
Anon
Sadly I lost a few PTO days last year. Finances and time were the biggest issues. Even though I have a lot of PTO it’s hard to use them. I’m probably a workaholic.
pugsnbourbon
Give yourself summer Fridays!
Anonymous
When I have PTO to take but not the budget to travel I go to local lakes and beaches for day trips in summer, I do a weekday Museum in winter, I go to the botanic gardens sometimes to a matinee. All stuff I can do on weekends but I enjoy having extra time for it.
OP
Beaches/lakes would be worth it for me! I don’t have a car so would need to convince a friend with a car to also take off for the day.
Anon
Or budget a rental car? Or do you not drive at all?
Anon
Does your grad school have a discount code for rental cars? The university I work at has a partnership with National that staff and students can use for personal travel and it usually works out to about $20/day.
OP
I am not in school anymore! But maybe there’s an alumni deal
Anon
It’s worth asking but probably no alumni deal unfortunately. Turo is supposed to be cheaper than the major companies so it’s worth looking into that too.
PolyD
I take PTO because sometimes I just need a break. I have a lot of PTO and live in a place with a lot to do, so sometimes I just take a day off and go to a museum and hit up a happy hour when it’s not crowded.
For a few years, my partner and I did a trip every summer, domestic travel, usually less than a week. And we often did a weekend in NYC or Philadelphia. But for a different few years, we didn’t really go anywhere beyond weekend trips because neither of us is great at travel planning, and we just didn’t feel like it.
So, travel if you want, but there’s nothing wrong with enjoying being home.
OP
I really love traveling!
I’ve lived in my city 27 of my 29 years so anything in my city or within a 2ish hour drive that’s fun I have already done. I also think museums, day trips, homes, lunch out (anything I’d do with a random Friday off) id more fun with someone. But most people I know aren’t needing to burn leave like I am.
Anon
Time recovering and relaxing isn’t wasted, but I understand the sentiment!
I posted above that I don’t go on a big trip every year. I enjoy getting my hair done in a relaxed setting, so sometimes I’ll schedule a hair appointment on a Friday morning, take the whole day off, and then do things I enjoy after (taking a long walk in a park, getting slow coffee at a favorite spot, etc)
It won’t apply to you, but I have taken PTO and done larger home projects like painting a couple of rooms. I’ll do it by myself so I don’t feel rushed, and having a whole new room at the end is fun and relaxing for me.
I also enjoy creative writing, so I’ve done do-it-yourself writing retreats. One year, I got a cabin at a state park for a few days and holed myself up to hike in the morning, write the rest of the day, and read and/or drink wine at night! It was wonderful!
If you live in a big city, you also could use PTO to explore your city like a tourist.
The thing I don’t do is take a week and sit in front of the tv the whole time. That is not restorative for me.
OP
Yes I think if I have a random day off it becomes a sit on the couch day which I hate!
Anon
I truly love having time at home to do nothing. That doesn’t feel wasted for me.
OP
What do you do on these days? I admit I’m very much a “go-go-go” person so I’m not sure what I’d do at home that would be enjoyable.
I’d either end up cleaning or watching tv, neither of which do it for me!
OP
Haha, I love having time to read, clean, nap and watch TV so I don’t have a helpful answer!
One of the reasons I actually dislike using all my PTO to travel is that I don’t feel rested after traveling. I need time at home to recharge.
Anon
Reading, napping, literally anything but working on a day off is a productive day for me. Rest is productive! You might try slowly shifting your mindset around that. Admittedly, I am in my 40s and was definitely more like you when I too was in my 20s. I love nothing more than NOT having anything I need to do these days.
Re: travel, it sounds like you aren’t super interested in solo travel, but I take two week long solo trips a year. One domestic (usually an NP) and one international. I try to keep domestic to under $2k all in and international $4k all in. It’s worth it to me to put money aside for these things but if you have other higher priorities, then you won’t have the money to travel.
OP
The 6k you put towards these trips is as much as I’m able to put into savings in a whole year! Of the trips I’ve taken, the most I ever spent was $1,400.
I’m fine with doing nothing if it involves lying by a pool or on a beach but a day of doing nothing at home always feels wasted – even on a Saturday or other day off.
Anon
Take your days off in the summer and go to a pool? When I have a light day at work in the summer, I read by my parents’ apartment complex pool with my laptop nearby in case of emergency and it’s pretty relaxing. Do you have a lake beach within driving distance?
Anon
Anon at 11:32 here. I totally understand you can’t drop $6k on travel per year. The point is if travel is really important to you, you instead save $5k and bookmark $1k for traveling and then you go travel!
Also, as someone older and burnt out on everything, I definitely recommend trying to shift your thoughts about “wasting” time. Your body needs time to recover and rest. None of that is ever a waste!
OP
I will have to check out the public pools over the summer. Their hours are usually trash but maybe thats more of a reason to take a Friday off and go!
anon
Me too.
In my ideal day doing nothing, I make coffee and bake muffins for breakfast, read a magazine while watching the birds and wildlife through the window, chat with my elderly neighbors, maybe break out the paint-by-numbers kit and do an acrylic painting in the evening or watch a new movie that I have been eying. None of this is a waste of a PTO day.
Anon
For me it’s cozying up with a book in front of the bird-watching window at our local nature center, but otherwise almost exactly the same.
Anon
Most people taking multiple international trips a year are either loaded, going broke from the travel, or staying in cheap places like hostels. It can definitely sound overwhelming and shocking when people treat travel like a hobby and just always have a couple thousand dollars to spend. I had a friend who once told me there’s no way you spend less than $10K a year on travel because it’s just not possible! We are no longer friends. Travel cheaper, fly coach, travel off season, stay in less expensive hotels that still offer free coffee and don’t go out to expensive restaurants. For example, my lunch alone in Buenos Aires was empanadas and a beer in the park for under $5. I also stayed in a hostel for 4 nights in Lisbon. It’s doable but all of it won’t be Instagram worthy and that’s fine!
Anon
It depends on family size too. If you want to fly internationally with a family of four (yes, even in coach), it does start to approach $10k. But for one person it’s very different.
Anon
I’m clearly single. No kids, it was just me. I took a 5 day stop to Lisbon for under $2K total.
Anon
I was reacting to your friend’s comment. Obviously a family can travel for less than $10k, but if she has a partner and kids her statement is considerably less crazy than it would be for a single person to say that. For a single person to spend $10k on a weeklong trip, you’re looking at very high-end/luxury travel.
Anon
She wasn’t talking about her spending $10k. She was talking about me spending 10K. She was well aware that I don’t have kids. She’s just an incredibly insensitive out of touch person.
Anon
Wow that is out of touch. The first time I ever spent $10k on a vacation, I was in Big Law earning the big bucks and it was for both me and my husband. I’m 40 and very affluent and I still haven’t spent $10k/person on a trip. She must be super wealthy or super in debt.
Anon
They’re super wealthy and no kids. They seem super nice on the surface but after being friends for a few years and thinking about all the comments made, I’m happier without those overpriced dinners together.
OP
So the few vacations I have managed have been very affordable. Like I have only ever flown Spirit and packed in the provided personal item, sharing a bed with a friend at the Holiday Inn Express, going at off peak times (usually decide where to go based off of where has cheap flights). I eat out on trips because I love local food but I’m at cheap places. I’m not going anywhere or doing anything Instagram worthy!
It seems like recently even “cheap” vacations are expensive thoigh!
anon
Yep, even cheap vacations don’t feel inexpensive. I’m at the stage in life where it’s worth it to me because I’m trying to build memories with my kids but travel honestly was not a huge priority when I was still in my 20s.
Anon
Well, it’s different when you have a family. I still think solo travel can be done on the cheap, like Anon8 described below about her $1k trip to Switzerland and I would lower that budget to $500 for a domestic solo trip. But 4x plane tickets and needing larger accommodations and more food for a family adds up fast. Plus with kids you generally need to follow their school schedule, which pushes your travel into more expensive times like spring break. You need to travel off-peak to get the great deals.
No Problem
Honestly I think it’s this right here: “I am trying to aggressively pay down student loans and rebuild savings so I am living on a budget.”
If you divert $100/month from the student loans/savings budget toward a travel budget, there’s your annual vacation (still on a budget, but $1,200 will get you a flight, cheap hotel for a couple nights, and some good food and entertainment). The question is how much it’s worth it to you to take the vacation vs. save or pay down debt. Only you can answer that.
Anon
This – when I made 75k and had high loans in a HCOL city I did one big trip a year with around a $1200-$1500 budget but I prioritized that above new clothes, furniture etc.
Ribena
Commenting to agree with this. Having spent the better part of two years not able to do anything due to lockdowns, I’m saving less/ paying down loans less aggressively than I was then, in order to free up money to enjoy life.
The other thing I’d highlight is that many of my friends who travel a lot are in long term relationships with a degree of cost sharing involved – either sharing living costs or even just sharing the costs of a trip.
Anon
“Commenting to agree with this. Having spent the better part of two years not able to do anything due to lockdowns, I’m saving less/ paying down loans less aggressively than I was then, in order to free up money to enjoy life.”
Saaaame. I said here on another travel spending thread that the pandemic gave me a YOLO attitude. I’m still saving, but I no longer care about saving as much as I possibly can.
OP
So I guess it’s more that my current financial situation isn’t conducive to traveling. After rent and loans, I have about $1600 left over for savings and spending each month.
I finished grad school (needed to be promotable) about a year ago so these loans are new and I’m trying to rebuild savings that I burned through in school.
Which goes back to my original question – at what point were you able to save, pay loans AND travel? I didn’t travel a ton before school but I did some mostly because my loans loans lower and I lived at home or in crappy group homes so even though I made less, I spent less. Those living arrangements were great when I was 22, but less so at 29…
Anon
“Which goes back to my original question – at what point were you able to save, pay loans AND travel?”
The answer to this is different for everyone – it depends on so many factors, like HCOL vs LCOL, whether you have a partner, how big your loans are, how much your family helps, etc. There are a million factors and it also really depends on your personal attitude about saving vs spending, so no one is going to be able to tell you it’s objectively wrong or right to travel in your financial situation. I took budget trips when I was in school earning nothing and accruing loans, so I definitely would be traveling modestly if I had $1,600 post tax dollars to spend and save.
OP
That’s true – I am probably less financially risk averse than you are! I’m trying to rebuild my emergency fund from essentially zero. So, $1000-$1200/month on usual spending and $400-$600/month on rebuilding savings. I would like to divert some of that to travel savings vs. emergency savings but it feels risky to me.
FWIW, I went from 15k in savings to $1,500 while I was in school.
Curious
Loans are just eating up a ton of your money. Do you share an apartment? That’s how I managed model travel when I made $65K in Chicago and was paying $1.3K/ month for grad school.
Curious
Oh, but I also had an emergency fund. I think you have your priorities straight.
Curious
*modest travel
OP
I got a 22k raise after finishing school so it was the “right” choice but obviously was detrimental to my finances for the short term but worth it in the long term. Loans are $350/mo but I try to pay $550. I do live alone, which was probably a mistake, but literally everyone one of my friends lives with a partner or lives alone: nobody has roommates and I wasn’t interested in a random roommate at this stage in my life.
Anon
Yeah, I would have taken more loans rather than decimating the emergency fund. OP, personally I would stop overpaying the loans until the emergency fund is rebuilt, and then I’d probably split the difference and put $450/month towards the loans and the remaining $100/month towards something fun like travel. But everyone has a different risk tolerance.
anon
Bluntly, you can’t afford to do everything. You’re paying down loans, rebuilding your savings, flying several times per year already, and you’re not willing to make further cuts to your spending. That’s your answer. You can afford to take optional trips when you’re willing to deprioritize one of those other categories without going into debt. Otherwise there’s simply not enough money to go around.
OP
I recognize that! That’s why my question was at what point were others able to take optimal trips!
It feels like everyone I know is able to so im curious if Im the outlier or they are.
Anon
A lot of people likely have more debt than you or have parent help. And parent help doesn’t mean just the parent sending the kid a check every month, which is pretty rare. But if parents pay for school so the child graduates debt free that gives them a huge leg up. Or another example is that at your age my parents still paid for my plane tickets home, which freed up money for other travel.
Anon
Everyone else has different priorities than you, so there is no one answer to this question. Some people do it at 22, bc they have roommates and don’t overpay loans and don’t save, bc travel is more important. Some wait until they have paid off all debt and have an emergency fund. It could be now for you if you changed your priorities, but you don’t want to and that’s okay!
Anon
Lots of people have said this already, but I’ll repeat: comparing yourself to others is a mistake, especially when it comes to finances. They may not have student loans because their parents paid for their education. Maybe their parents are paying their rent (or their loan payments). They may make more money than you think, or that they’ve told you they make. They may be putting everything on credit cards, or may not pay their bills on time and have terrible credit. They might be doing Only F a n s on the side or have some other side hustle they haven’t told you about. Who knows? What you know about yourself is that you can’t afford to do what you’re doing and travel the way you want to, so you either need to make more money or restructure your spending/saving/loan payoff budgeting. There is no magic answer here that someone’s going to spoon-feed you, that will magically fix the situation.
anon
Your traveler friends don’t have loans, they have healthy savings, or they limit their other expenses (like you mentioned your friends splitting rent with SO’s, maybe they buy less clothing, maybe their parents fund their lifestyle). Or they have the same expenses as you and they’re putting themselves in a precarious financial situation. You really can’t tell what’s going on behind the scenes so focus on yourself.
I have some friends that travel often but live in a cheap apartment. Other friends travel often, live in an expensive apartment, and have credit card debt. Don’t be part of the second group!
Trixie
The question you ask has no set answer. I do think, however, that you can think creatively to build some travel into your life. I have a friend who opens new credit cards to get the points, spends on them and pays them off right away, and then stops using the card, and opens a new one. (I am not sure if he cancels them or just cuts them up and ignores them.) Sign up for Scott’s Cheap Flights, or Travel Zoo, and you will see lots of bargains. Maybe you can do a housing swap–sites exist that allow you to stay in someone’s home while that person stays in your home. There are also pet sitting gigs for travel, if you like dogs or cats. Buy groceries, choose some dinners out carefully, go to cities that have free or low cost museums. Use public transport, etc. Also, think about increasing your income. A side gig? Changing jobs? Selling stuff you own? Doing thrift flips? Sounds like you have energy to burn, so a side gig could work for you. You can it! I believe in you!
Trixie
Could someone please explain to me how to avoid getting into moderation? I don’t get it, aside from the obvious s@x related words. ????
Anon
I think “S i t e” puts you in m0d
Cat
S-te and Tr-ns both do it.
Trish
My husband and I both traveled for work the entire time my son was growing up. We just went wherever work took us as it saved one plane ticket and the cost of the hotel. Worked out great for us! If I was at a conference, husband and son explored the city and we always stayed one extra day.
Anon
My husband is a professor, and we do this too.
Anon8
Get an airline credit card and use the account signup bonus to go on a trip. Sign up for Scotts Cheap Flights and be open to random locations (my favorite trip was to a place I had no plans to go to, but found an incredible flight deal). Waste time on google flights looking for flight deals of your own. Once you find a cheap flight, when you’re booking there’s usually an offer to sign up for the airline credit card for an additional discount.
If you don’t have lots of PTO, arrive early in the morning and leave late at night. Be willing to make tradeoffs for budget reasons– stay at an airbnb with a kitchen and buy grocery store food. Meet your friends somewhere and share a hotel or rental to save money.
Travel is the #1 priority in my budget, and I’ve been going on 5+ long weekends and vacations per year since I was 24 or 25. I was aggressively paying down student loans and making about 50k per year at that time. You just have to be flexible, work within your parameters and go for it!
I once went to San Diego from NY for a three day weekend. In college I once drove to North Carolina from NY for a weekend. I remember road trips in my early twenties when I’d only get free water at rest stops because I was so broke.
Anon8
Adding to this, an example– in 2019 I went to Switzerland on a $350 round trip flight from my tiny airport (Scott’s Cheap Flight Alert and signed up for the AA credit card for an additional $100 off), stayed at $100 per night airbnbs with kitchenettes (split with my sister) and only ate out twice the whole trip because food was so expensive.
I ended up spending about $1,000 total on a week in one of the most expensive countries in the world and really truly did not feel I missed out on anything.
Anon
from reading through your responses to everyone it seems like right now out this moment your top priority is rebuilding your savings, which is fine! i think part of the question is are you willing to travel by yourself or do you only want to travel with friends? is there a particular place you’d like to travel to? where do you live? maybe people could suggest some lower cost ideas from your location.
OP
I guess I’m open to traveling alone but I prefer to travel with friends so I can split accommodations costs.
I like hiking trips and new cities, so like going just about anywhere (as long as it’s not cold!). I live in Maryland.
I was supposed to do a New England road trip with a friend last summer but we both bowed out due to costs.
OP
Oh, and I love the beach.
Anon
i mean there are like a million drivable places from MD and even within MD (i grew up in MD), you can go to the DE beaches, Jersey Shore, VA, Chesapeake for cities Philly, Richmond, and NYC are all not that far. I know sometimes it can be tricky to find a friend to travel with. and it sounds like you don’t have a car, so you either need to rent a car or find places you can travel to via bus or plane and then not need a car once you get there. There are also many many day trips you can do living in MD
OP
I said this somewhere else on the thread but Ive lived here almost my entire life so I feel like I’ve done all of the day trips. My favorite thing about travel is experiencing somewhere new and ideally somewhere thst feels totally different.
I love how much is drivable in Maryland and am grateful to be so close to beaches, mountains, cities, cute little towns.
Anon
You just have to do it. Book a trip with a friend, read books on the beach or explore a new city.
When I was in my 20s my big trips were for weddings – two of my besties got married overseas! – but I used that time to explore the area a bit, taking a week before the wedding to explore nearby countries in both cases.
But then I wanted to do more of that with no excuse of a wedding so I just started picking out a place I wanted to see and going there! Enjoy.
Cat
Reading through the replies, you have a LOT of reasons you aren’t traveling. Is it possible you don’t actually like it as much as you feel like you “should” like it? That is perfectly ok if not a trendy thing to say.
If you actually do like and miss it, then you need to be more flexible about pouncing on great deals when they pop up (a random $200 round trip to LA that we saw scrolling Google Flights led to a shockingly inexpensive getaway weekend; we 100% are making our way around Europe based on relative flight prices, like for example Barcelona is like $600 round trip right now but Rome is $1500… we booked Barcelona.)
OP
I actually do love it! I grew up in a family that doesn’t (they go thr same 2 places on vacation every year!)
I think this thread is making me realize that I still don’t have the funds to comfortably travel and that I should continue to put it off until I’ve rebuilt my savings.
I love searching cheap flights but find that accommodations ruin a budget. I feel safer in a hotel but even cheap hotels add up!
Anonymous
For my 20s, most of my vacations were for weddings. My friends are spread out all over the country/globe, so these were usually in places I didn’t mind tacking on a few extra days to travel. Or I crashed my parents’ annual summer beach trip because they still liked having my brother and I along. I couldn’t afford to go to both weddings and a separate vacation. I didn’t start regularly traveling on my own for destinations I actually chose until my 30s, when I moved to a lower cost of living city (Raleigh, which, if you need suggestions for things to do while here for a wedding, let me know.) and had more money. Also in my 30s, I started traveling A LOT for work and got a ton of frequent flyer miles that way–I took multiple international trips just on frequent flier miles I earned at work. Let’s just say post-pandemic I really miss those work miles when I actually had to pay cash for an airline ticket.
Anon
You just choose different priorities, then. Sounds like you have all the resources available to you, but you’ve chosen to put them towards other things. And that’s okay! But you can make different choices if you decide your priorities are changing.
OP
I am literally just now, 29 years of life and 100+ comments later, realizing that travel is a priority for my fund spending but not a priority in my overall spending. I grew up / still view travel and other fun things as only possible after several o the conditions are met (fully finding savings, paying down debt). It’s my priority over shopping or concerts but not over saving
HFB
Sometimes you need to talk things through with others to realize your own priorities!
Anon
I’m confused about the math here. You earn $75k which should be about $60k post-tax as a single person. So that’s $5k per month take home. You say you only have $1600 leftover after rent and loans and you’re paying $550 on the loans. Does that mean your rent is almost $3k/month? If so, that’s the issue. Downsize or get a roommate.
My husband and I lived for two years in the Bay Area on his $30k grad school stipend and we took vacations. Mostly long weekend road trips that probably cost $500-600 for both of us. One time we got crazy cheap tickets to Hawaii and went there for four days, but that trip probably cost $1000-1200 for both of us. Granted, the Bay Area cost of living wasn’t what it is now and we didn’t have a loan payment, but still…your income is more than double what ours was. There’s no way you can’t take the occasional weekend trip if you want.
OP
My take home is about $3700 after taxes and deductions.
Anon
What sort of deducations? If you’re saving for retirement you may want to look into reducing that. Retirement saving is important but it’s very difficult to save aggressively for retirement and aggressively pay down loans at the same time, and you’re young enough that you don’t need to be maxing out retirement. If this doesn’t include retirement contributions it sounds low to me. Is it possible your employer is over-withholding? Do you get a big refund at tax time? If so you can adjust your withholding so you get your money sooner.
Anon
This is such an assumption! You don’t know how much she has to contribute to health insurance, federal, state and city taxes, etc. Also, rents have skyrocketed in the past two years and you had a husband to help pay for rent!!
Anon
My husband’s and my *combined* income was $30k, so less than half of what OP earns alone. Federal and state taxes are public record and city taxes are minimal. Yes, rent has increased, but I don’t believe there is any part of Maryland that costs more today than the Bay Area did even back then. Bay Area is off the charts VVHCOL.
Anon
I was 39
Anon
Well, almost no one answered your question!
Probably I started having a once a year trip in my early/mid-30’s. But when years were lean, I didn’t take those either.
You are in lean years. Give it time. Or move to a new city where you can take a lot of the shorter trips to new places.
And btw – you are taking yearly vacations. Weddings count! All the short trips count too. If doing one big trip a year is your goal, you need to cut out the other stuff and save for the big trip.
To expect at the age of 29, one year out of grad school, with student loans…. to be going on a once a year big trip is not very realistic. You are doing a smart, fantastic job at prioritizing correctly by paying down your debt and getting yourself free of that burden. Maybe take a break from all the Instagram bragging from your peers and folks who may be over-spending or have secret $$ resources that help them or who spend too much time bragging with these trips. You have plenty of time.
Learn to take a breath. I promise it will help you in the long run.
OP
This was a very helpful comment, thank you
Anon
Tons of people answered the question.
Anon
In college and law school my travel was frequent but not fancy (it seems like I was always tagging along to someone’s family shore house or packing eight people in a hotel room in Vegas), in Big Law my travel was fancy (Bora Bora! Greece!) but not frequent due to work demands, then I had young kids and then there was a pandemic. It’s only now as I get close to 40 that I’m enjoying frequent, fancy travel.
Anon
Yeah, same. I traveled a lot starting the summer after high school graduation but it was absolutely on a shoestring. I spent almost a month in Chile one college summer but I did it by sleeping in a tent half the time and super sketchy hostels (like…for local sailors, not even for international backpackers) the rest of the time. I did a lot of road trips with friends, again, camping a lot, sleeping in my parents’ borrowed minivan, or cramming 6 people into a single hotel room. I paid off my loans 6 years after law school graduation – I had $120k in law school debt, and some of my interest rates were high (8%). I made minimum payments all year and then would put my entire after tax bonus towards loan repayment. Once I’d done that and was making more money (my early 30s), I started doing bigger, fancier trips.
I also always tacked a day onto work trips if I could, no matter how non descript the location, on the theory that every town has at least one day of interesting stuff and I might as well see it without paying for a flight.
Now I’m early 40s, married with three kids, and we take two big trips a year plus traveling monthly to a second home. I’m in-house now (so more time) and I married someone pretty wealthy (so more $$).
Anotheranon
I have always taken vacations, including when I had $100k in grad school loans. I built up a savings account, made the minimum payments on my loans, and used my income to enjoy my life. I paid the loans off eventually, and I’m so thankful that I got to travel while I was young, healthy, mobile, and unattached. I still love to travel, but it looks very different with a family!
anon
I’m 39, married with one child, and I started taking vacations like you’re describing, without family, around age 37. The out of town weddings became less constant in our early 30s. We had a baby when I turned 31, and I was ineligible for vacation for 1 year after returning from maternity leave. But then we spent a lot of vacation time visiting family (though that was often fun trips with family, not just visiting home). We started traveling just the three of us after we were all fully vaccinated in 2021, and my son had just turned 6. Even now, there’s no big “annual” trip, and 80% of our vacation time is spent with family or visiting friends in other cities. DH and I haven’t traveled internationally since our honeymoon 12 years ago, and our big 10-year anniversary trip (May 2020) got turned into a kitchen renovation. We had a tough financial situation until very recently. I just started a new job, and we are trying to save aggressively before taking any huge trips.
Anon
“ineligible for vacation for 1 year after returning from maternity leave” Off topic but that is straight BS!!!!
Anonymous
Not until after student loans were paid off.
Anonymous
What do you like to actually do while you are traveling? Do you want to hike, camp, stay at a resort, on a beach, a lake, visit museums, be in a town/city with interesting buildings, read in a cafe,…………..?
A
24
Anon
Looking for recommendations for hikes within a reasonable drive from Philly. Ideally a hike with actual elevation or some technical aspects as opposed to a nature walk.
I love the Wissahickon, Fairmount Park, MLK/Kelly, and FDR and am at one of those locations nearly weekly. Looking for something more hike-like though.
I’ve done Valley Forge, Tyler St Park, Fort Washington St Park. They’re fine but not what I’m looking for. I’ve also done Hawk Mountain and the Pinnacle, which are absolutely what I’m looking for but seeing if there’s anything else (ideally even closer)!
anon
Who else is hitting the winter doldrums? Late February through March is the worst part of winter for me. I’m not traveling anywhere but am trying to add little bits of joy to my daily life.
– Brighter nail polish (currently wearing Swoon in the Lagoon by Essie)
– Afternoon beverages: coffee, sparkling water, hot cocoa on frigid days
– Going to a local indoor pool
– Doing a little bit of garden planning and dreaming
Would love more ideas!
Anon
Daily walks or runs in the sun.
Anon
Winter is so hard for me too. I like to have a show to look forward to every week – for me that’s The Last of Us right now.
Anne-on
I’d add:
Trying to go out for a walk daily if at all possible – the fresh air and natural light always boosts my mood
30-minute foot/hand massage during your lunch break or right after work (a local reflexology place is great for this)
Using ‘what are you reading’ types of threads to fill up my Libby/local library holds
Buying flowers at the grocery store weekly to add some extra color/life to my home
Cooking more ‘transitional’ meals vs. full on winter stews – like endive salad with the great oranges we’re getting now, or a super fresh thai curry with lost of lime/ginger in it
Anon
Honestly, I love my happy light with my morning coffee!
Ribena
I recently learnt the word ‘dunkelflaute’, German for ‘dark doldrums’, which although it’s an energy policy thing, seems like it also applies to this season of the year!
Plenty of workouts and colourful fresh veg for me (although not the workouts at the moment, I’ve got a horrible cold!), as well as lots of time getting cozy with a book or embroidery.
pugsnbourbon
I just hit the part of winter where I’m getting random scaly patches on my face (but still, acne – thanks hormones!), so I’m stocking up on all the “soothing” face masks I can!
Anon
I am obsessed with this Murdaugh trial! It’s fascinating!
Anon
I first heard about it here and the whole thing is such a cluster. It starts off with a faked murder that wasn’t really a murder and then it turns out he was embezzling from his law firm and might have shot his son to avoid paying out damages in a wrongful death suit. Then there’s more because of course.
Ellen
I have learned to be very wary of red headed men. Those men were only interested in themself, not me. FOOEY!
Anon
Same! It’s a wild ride!
Anon
I’ve followed the Murdaugh Murders Podcast for over a year now. It is out of control.
I may or may not be listening/watching the trial while I work.
Anon
Same!!! work is getting in the way!!
Anon
For those of us who are a little older and know our clothes aren’t quite in style any more but can’t figure out why: check out IGer two_scoops_of_style. It’s twins, and one of them wears an outdated outfit while the other wears a similar, current one, and they show you which pieces to swap out. Their style isn’t exactly my taste (I am too old for some of the things in style these days), but it’s super helpful to see the silhouettes they choose. From one ’81 baby to others, hope this helps.
anon
I like An Indigo Day’s 17 ways to update your basic millennial outfit
anonshmanon
lol, this was an interesting read! Here is the link
https://anindigoday.com/ways-to-update-your-basic-millennial-outfit/
I was prepared to feel indifferent, and I don’t really aim to be fashionable anyway. I was not prepared to internally scream at almost every side-by-side, thinking the updated version looks objectively worse! Best part was when she called the super frumpy length of shorts more flattering. I have graduated from not caring about fashion to intentionally rejecting gen z fashion, I guess? You can pry the scarf out of my dead millennial hands.
The tone was also interesting. I guess it’s not that unusual for fashion articles to be really dismissive and call past fashions cringey, piece of crap, horrible, etc. It’s just funny to read her saying that about a photo of her own self from a few years ago. If you wanna talk that way about yourself, ok but seems unhealthy.
Anon
I love this! I very strongly agree with her about getting rid of pointless scarves!
anon
Oh I agree, a lot of modern pant styles are unflattering on anyone over 100 pounds. I don’t recreate the entire “updated” outfit but the article helped me identify dated looks to let go of. I try to land somewhere in the middle.
Anon
I think one aspect is that what is “flattering” changes over time. I’m not skinny, and I’ve never liked the way skinny jeans looked on me. Yet for many many years, we were told that if we find the RIGHT skinnies, they’ll be flattering. I have rejoiced at the return of straight legs, and I think I look much better in those because of how my body is put together.
I also love that younger generations seem to be dressing more for fun than making sure their legs look the longest possible, etc.
Anon
Frankly, I love Gen Z’s willingness to wear things that are not what we’d traditionally consider flattering. Love that they DGAF! Can I unlearn all the ideas about presenting my body that I’ve internalized during my life? Not really. I probably can’t join them in all the trends. But I can appreciate that they’re not beholden to those same ideas anymore!
Anon
I disagree that the updated shorts are frumpy or that the out-of-date pics looked better! And she didn’t say that all scarves are out— just the cheap Target infinity scarves that we learned to use as our 3rd piece.
It’s totally fine to decide you don’t want to wear certain items of clothing, or that you want to continue wearing others. But it always confounds me when people come to a fashion blog and act like the clothes they enjoyed wearing in their 20s are and should be current forever. The point of the Indigo post was that there are certain little things you can do to look more current. And it’s fine if you don’t want to, but it’s just not true that looking current equals looking bad or worse than before.
anonshmanon
I mean, there is obviously nothing objective about fashion, so that was meant tongue in cheek. Personally, I don’t ‘come to a fashion blog’, I come to chat with the hive of cool people. I understand that fashion tips is the history of this blog and lots of y’all care about it, but I think it’s so much more than that, so even while I don’t care about it, I keep coming back.
Older Gen X
Particularly when those people (or at least people of the same generation as those people) had so much to say about the frumpy and outdated styles that Gen X’ers and Boomers were wearing cicrca 2000-2010!
Anonymous
50% of the advice was “wear oversized jackets.” On me those are either frumpy or costumey, so ??? I think most current fashion is designed to be as ugly as possible on the largest proportion of bodies as possible.
pugsnbourbon
Yes! That’s a fun account.
Davis
Haha – wow, I had no idea they were twins! I’ve seen a few of their reels and just assumed they had some awesome editing going on. Thanks!
Anon8
Same here, totally thought it was just one person!
Anon
What a fun concept.
Cat
Oh, that’s a fun account. I am feeling very bored by my tops as the “untucked silky shell + Jackie cardigan” was a staple for so many years… I still love the patterns of the shells and so need to try some new ways to style them.
pugsnbourbon
The gray cardigan + cobalt shell + black skinny ankle pants was my CLUTCH outfit for a long time. I still wear a lot of cardigans but I bought a few new ones recently to freshen them up.
Anne-on
Shells are pretty classic (and tops that hit at the waist vs. lower down are more current) so I’d still wear them but paired with a slightly oversized blazer maybe?
Cat
I’m trying :) Oversized blazers are kind of tragic on me – I’m a pear-hourglass and so wearing a garment that doesn’t define my waist leaves me feeling stumpy and blobby. So far I’ve started layering the shells under v-neck sweaters instead of cardigans, and tucking them in rather than having the tails show below the sweater… but the whole jacket thing is tricky.
Anonymous
How offended would you be if a friend suggested you were autistic? One of my old grad school friends has always seemed a bit different to me. We’re not close these days, just FB friends, but her comments keep ringing ND bells. Today she was talking about how she’s so exhausted and it feels beyond what even descriptions of chronic fatigue are, so I sent her a story on autistic burnout with a mild suggestion she look into it.
Anon
It’s pretty offensive, since you admit you’re not close and are just FB friends. If you were close, it would be a different story, but hopefully you’d present it more kindly than just emailing someone an article that implies they’re autistic. That’s a pretty socially awkward way to handle it. Also you just sound kind of silly. Tons of non-autistic people are exhausted and burned out.
Anonymous
Ummm. Maybe there’s something wrong with you that you lack normal boundaries? This is an acquaintance it is not your place to armchair diagnose her. Wild. Wow.
anon
Uhhhh … while your instincts that she’s ND might be correct, I think you overstepped.
Vicky Austin
+1.
Cat
I would frankly be offended, sorry – like “wow, this person I haven’t really spoken with in years remembers me as ‘off’ and her brain immediately went to autism when I described fatigue? seriously?”
Anon
OMG – why are you messaging fb friends anything in 2023? Either be in real touch or not at all.
pugsnbourbon
The only FB messages I receive these days are from people with a “great business opportunity!” for me.
NYCer
I don’t know if I would be offended, but I would be seriously weirded out…
Anonymous
Ouch. Ok. Follow up question: Having put my foot in my mouth, I just stay away now, right?
Anonymous
Yes. Stop being a meddler.
Vicky Austin
Mm, a follow-up saying “I didn’t realize how that must sound to you; I apologize for how intrusive it is to suggest something so personal. Please feel free to ignore” would be okay.
Also you can unsend on FB messenger if that’s what you sent it on/she hasn’t seen it.
Anonymous
OP / follow up – I messaged her something similar to this and she already responded that it was something she’s been curious about and she’s glad I brought it up.
Vicky Austin
Big phew!
Curious
Sounds like you read your audience. I’ve frequently been curious about whether my brain is exactly neurotypical, what ways it might not be, and how that affects how I interact with the world. It would be weird for most friends to send me that but not all, and the “not all” includes anyone to whom I’ve shared being at my wit’s end with exhaustion.
Anon
Is this real?
It’s none of your business, and this was way out of bounds.
How would you feel if, for example, your hair was thinning and an acquaintance sent you an article about Rogaine?
On top of all that, you don’t know what, if any diagnosis, she has from her own medical providers, so how was what you did helpful in any way?
Anon
Are you autistic yourself? Nothing about your friend’s behavior sounds abnormal to me, but your behavior is so out of touch with how normal people behave I wonder if you don’t have some neurodiversity yourself.
Anon
Could we stop with “normal people” — neurotypical is what is paired with neurodiverse. Not “normal” and “neurodiverse.”
Anon
+1
So out of touch…
thanksgiving anxiety
I’m not diagnosing anyone but I got ASD vibes from this story as well.
Anon
Yeah the whole emailing articles back and forth as a primary means of communication sounds a lot like my ASD cousin.
bluebonnetanon
Can you link the article? I’m curious about myself a little.
Anonymous
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/well/live/autistic-burnout-advice.html
Anon
Extremely offended, because this pushes a very particular button in me.
I absolutely loathe this business of armchair diagnosis. Autism, depression, neuro divergence, anxiety, bipolar, whatnot – those are all conditions that require a professional to diagnose, almost always in a situation where the patient has consented to diagnosis and the professional uses a wide variety of tools and tests to do so.
If that isn’t your situation, knock it the hell off.
Thing is, a lot do these diagnoses do require a professional, because to the untrained eye (ie most everyone reading this), one thing can look a lot like another. Trauma can cause people to act “off” in a way that “looks like mental illness” to a layperson. Think Gabby Petito being a vise victim who looked like “the crazy one” to the police.
Knock. It. Off.
Anon
Yes, this armchair diagnosing thing is a major pet peeve of mine. To me, this would be worse than an article about weight loss or something like that, but I know others may feel diferently.
Anon
It is beyond a pet peeve of mine. The Tl;dr of my personal history is that I was abused as a child and threatened with being sent to a mental institution if I reached out for help. I am a high achieving adult, so most people don’t really understand how bad it was or even that it happened.
My mental health isn’t up for layperson debate. I take professional advice seriously and have no interest in some over-privileged wine mom throwing a monkey wrench into the works because she “talks about mental health” over canapés.
Anonymous
(OP again – I get it, I screwed up, will stay away and not do again. FWIW there have been many many many (many) interactions and comments that made me think she was; because she was a top student and a girl she wouldn’t have been diagnosed when we were kids in the 80s. Her post this morning was of despair that she’d tried everything and had every test and her docs were just chalking her extreme fatigue up to depression.) (Also, I don’t consider “autistic” an insult or a mental illness, but I realize not everyone does.)
Anon
I don’t consider autism an insult either, but this kind of armchair diagnosing another person is inappropriate in general and *extremely* inappropriate when you’re talking about an acquaintance you barely communicate with! Like, taking the autism aspect out of it, it’s still weird to me that your first contact with this Facebook friend in years (?) is emailing her some random article. It reminds me of a relative who ignored my graduations, my marriage and the birth of my kids and then commented enthusiastically about some cupcakes I made.
Anon
Ouch. I hope this was an older relative who logs in irregularly and just sees whatever Facebook shows them.
Anon
I have a friend who only wants to talk about my cat. I have two human children.
Anon
Nope, my age, very active on social media. It was weird.
Anonymous
(OP here) Who said years? We email articles back and forth frequently, maybe 6-8x a year, and comment on each others’ posts otherwise.
Anonymous
the algorithm can be really strange!
Anon
the algorithm can be really strange!
Anonymous
If a friend is struggling you reach out and be a friend. You don’t FB messenger they an article.
Anonymous
It’s not just the stigma of autism though. It’s the arrogance that you know someone basically by name and not much else these days but somehow think you know them better than themselves and their entire medical team.
Anon
Exactly.
Anon
She needs better doctors. Honestly if she really does have autism, there are a lot of medical comorbidities that can come with it and cause serious symptoms like fatigue, but it’s not just psychological.
Anon
But we don’t know if she’s been diagnosed with autism or not. I assume OP hasn’t looked at her records or anything, and it might not be something the person tells an acquaintance.
Anon
I guess I meant more that even for someone who definitely has autism, the outlook that it’s “just burnout” is really not that helpful, so it seems even more of a stretch to chalk everything up to burnout in an acquaintance who is only being armchair diagnosed.
anon
You are not close enough to this person to even make the suggestion that she may be autistic. This was a huge overstep.
Anon
Totally offensive.
Someone did something like that to me, and it made me feel so terrible about myself and I never forgot it. Our friendship was never the same.
Just… why?
Anon
Unless your grad school was medical school and this was your specialty, I don’t know what you are thinking. Apologize for being an a-hole, because that’s what you were here.
Anon
Even if OP is a doctor it’s inappropriate. A doctor should (and would, in the case of all doctors I know) stick to diagnosing patients who have actually come to them seeking help.
anon
What you did was gross. I think you know that. I wonder if you are also wanting to stir the pot because you read the NYT Ethicist column about an almost identical question published yesterday.
Anon
Holy sh t, back off. You’re only FB friends? What do you think this is supposed to accomplish? I suspect nothing, other than some sense of proving yourself right.
Anonymous
I don’t offend easily so this wouldn’t offend me. That said, I would absolutely question your motives and endgame. I have a kid with ASD and in my experience the people who most quickly throw the word autism around are the ones who know the least about it…
Anonymous
OP again, one final time. Already apologized to my friend and we’ve had a nice talk this morning about how she’s been curious about ASD but hasn’t been able to get a doctor to assess her despite strong sensory processing differences and getting fired for jobs for there being “something fundamentally wrong with how she interacts with people.” She thanked me for suggesting it. I’m kind of blown away by the responses here but maybe I didn’t describe our relationship well – she is not one of those people I friended on FB but never really knew, like a coworker or school friend I haven’t spoken to in 20 years. We were best friends for about two years, then had a falling out because she can be incredibly antagonistic, but now communicate often via FB posts and DMs. (Hence… “FB friend.”) But maybe she and I are just weirdos to everyone else. (I *was* assessed as ADHD recently, and asked the psych to assess whether I might be autistic also, but she didn’t think it was worth pursuing.)
Anon
Read your original post. Then re-read this post. Quite different info, ye
You really can’t see why we responded as we did?
Anon
+1 I thought this was a tr0ll when I first read the post, and this follow-up reaffirms my feeling. Classic tr0lling to share X fact pattern, get a big response based on that fact pattern, and then come back with “well no actually there was all this info that you were missing and it worked out really well SO THERE.”
Anon
Trying to find a therapist, and I am having a hard time finding anyone who is not over $300 per session. Live in a HCOL area. Has anyone found a cheaper option, or have a therapist who does remote telehealth they could recommend that is in a lower cost of living area/is a cheapeer?
Anon
I don’t think the cost of therapy scales with the cost of living. I live in a place where you can get a nice, large single family house for $300k, so housing prices are 5-10x higher in other parts of the country, and therapy here costs at least that much. I’ve actually paid quite a bit more.
pugsnbourbon
Counterpoint – when I lived in Indiana, my therapy sessions were in the $100-$200 range. Both people I saw were LCSWs, one was also trained in EMDR. Psychologists may be pricier.
Anon
What state?
Anon
I’m in a VHCOL area and just found several names between $180-225/session via the psychology today website. You can also look for telehealth providers in your state that might be in less expensive cities.
Anon
most therapists cannot practice across state lines
Anon
This.
Anon
True, but many states have lower cost of living areas. A Boston based patient could see a therapist based in Springfield or Amherst via tele-health.
Anon
Did you search Psychology Today’s database?
New York
My husband and I are planning a long weekend to NYC at the end of March. Other than day trips for work, we haven’t been since we were adolescents. We’d like to see a Broadway show, have some nice meals, do a few touristy things (like the Met), a little shopping, and just enjoy a weekend without our young kids. We are in our late 30s. Could use recommendations for a nice hotel (under $500 a night), restaurants, show to see, and just general suggestions. We’re lucky to live in a city where lots of touring shows stop and have season tickets so we’ve seen all the major productions, but is there anything that should be seen on Broadway specifically? We would fly in Thursday afternoon and fly out Sunday night. How would you plan the trip?
anon
I would stay at the Bowery Hotel in noho and eat at the delicious restaurants down there. You can walk around Nolita and Soho for shopping, and the area is neighborhoody. For the Met and Broadway you’ll need to subway or cab but I think it’s a good trade off to stay downtown—it’s too cold in March to use much of Central Park. I would see Funny Girl with Lea Michele!
NYCer
These are all good suggestions. I would also recommend staying downtown in OP’s shoes.
Definitely try the West Village for dinner one night. Here are some restaurants that I like in that neighborhood: Buvette, Via Carota, Nat’s on Bank, Malaparte, Balaboosta, 9 Jones, i Sodi. Further downtown, one of my favorite restaurants is One White Street in Tribeca.
NYNY
If you’re open to heavy subject matter, I’d recommend Leopoldstadt or A Doll’s House. If you’re open to heavy subject matter and experimental theater, look at LOVE at the Park Avenue Armory.
Anonymous
thank you to whoever mentioned that goodwill has an online section! I couldn’t help myself and wound up getting: a neon green Botkier crossbody ($45), a Rag & Bone t-shirt ($13), a Max Mara leather skirt ($19!!!) and a black Gucci shoulder bag ($230). Total gamble, I’ll be interested to see how it goes. (I’m not very familiar with Gucci at all, this ebay description looks like the bag I got.)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144184661409?hash=item21921355a1:g:DgwAAOSwT9ZhMuU1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsNKbF4ltKxy7CQVe58xTjqLyqwV8puBdzV0DVJdrKX4a4wiCo7WBiGZeQ3BL%2BgBmyqCD%2BJBm4CNuAlSyUCnl6rldtsg1nxYmyDEEyDoTIQMhFIr%2B77ojQ9DRsyoLMgr4sFNRrB53aytKdDThagKGVCDb2HazDl3TD9NnzeDSXj0OFL7GKNWjvwBUkG%2BS4AkTsWX0zdMsBjIxpS0%2FkeRE4LNE3MGecxQQ56iE7d%2F8fYgX%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5CMtcjOYQ
Anon
I’m happy you found stuff you like. I would never buy a Gucci bag from Goodwill (or eBay, for that matter) assuming it was real; given the popularity of The RealReal and other consignment shops that take authentic designer merchandise for resale, the chance that someone would donate an authentic Gucci bag is very slim. But if it’s a very convincing fake, enjoy it. Just don’t expect to resell it at anywhere near what you paid for it.
High BP
Partly a vent and partly looking for some anecdata…I’m kind of depressed about my high blood pressure measurements. It’s high enough to be hypertension (130/90 on the low end). The reason I’m down about it is that I’ve always had totally normal blood pressure until last summer when it went up to high 120s/80s. But I figured it was due to the COVID 15 I’d gained, so I worked super hard to lose 20 pounds. I’m also in the best shape of my life right now, super high cardio endurance and quite lean from strength training. And I’ve kept it that way for the past 3 months. I’m still overweight BMI, but I’ve always had a large, athletic frame. But my BP is still stubbornly high :(
I’m going to see the doctor about it, but it’s just been kind of demotivating. I guess it could just “be genetics” There is high BP in my family but that usually happened when they were in their 50s and I’m in my 30s.
Anon
Do you take any medication? Several drugs I’ve taken bump my blood pressure up just a bit, including some otc meds.
Anon
“super high cardio endurance”
What heart rate zones are you doing your cardio at?
Anonymous
What’s your diet like? Maybe see a registered dietician? That might help fuel your workout and help with your blood pressure.
Davis
That’s frustrating for sure! I’m glad you’re getting an appointment with your doctor. While I get it’s kind of demotivating, acknowledge all your hard work! You said “I’m in the best shape of my life right now” and that’s a huge accomplishment! It may also make it easier to talk with your doctor since you’re doing all the right things and won’t be told something like “make sure you’re getting 150 minutes of exercise each week.”
PolyD
I got put on meds for high blood pressure a few years ago. I was 50, but I was not overweight and also was working out (HIIT and ballet) 3-4 times a week. Conversely, my much heavier sister who does not exercise has brilliant BP! So I think body size doesn’t always predict BP.
When the pandemic started, I stopped using the Pill AND I stopped driving to work every day and my BP went way down. So maybe there’s some stress in your life that’s bumping up your BP?
A colleague of mine started BP meds in her 30 and is also not overweight. BP can definitely have a genetic component. Also, they lowered the parameters sometime in the past few years, so a “high BP” is a value that previous to that, wasn’t considered a high BP. At any rate, if your doctor recommends meds, just take them. There’s really no harm in doing so.
High BP
Thanks for all the advice/validation! To answer some of the questions: I did think that it might be stress related as work has been challenging the last few months. I’d actually like it to be stress because at least I can go about solving that! I got an IUD about 2 years ago, so that’s probably not it since I’ve had it for a while.
Also, I guess I should say the “super high” cardio endurance is relative. I’m not like a marathon athlete or anything like that. It’s been a while since I used a HR monitor but definitely in Zones 4 and 5 when I work out. I do a lot of Peloton riding for my cardio, and I can reasonably average a 130+ output for a 45 minute ride if that gives any sense of endurance. Either way, it’s way better than what I could do when I had the lower BP.
No Problem
How much sodium do you consume? I don’t really mean whether you put a lot of salt in the foods you cook, it’s how much you consume from processed or packaged foods. Because as much as BP can be influenced by exercise and genetics, salt consumption is a huge factor. If you’re eating primarily home cooked foods with the occasional packaged food, you’re fine. If lunch is always a frozen microwave meal…that’s a lot of sodium. And if you’re consuming lots of sports drinks along with your exercise, that can be a lot of sodium as well (more than you are sweating out with your workout).
But I agree with others that if the doctor says you should be on medication, just take the medication. Keeping BP in the normal range is literally life saving.
Anon
My brother is solid lean muscle. Perfect weight. An amazing health specimen from a combination of pull-ups/planks and a hard-core cyclist. He eats great high protein mostly plants. He does everything we all should to optimize our health, and I am a doughy lump compared to him.
I have perfect low blood pressure.
He has blood pressure like yours…. a tiny bit higher. closer to 140 over 90s.
We have a lot of high blood pressure in my family. Genetics are real. And his started in his 30s despite being perfect specimen.
So he was annoyed for awhile – like you. But he eventually started a baby dose of a blood pressure medicine (an ACE-inhibitor) that is really commonly used as a first line treatment. Totally cheap – like $20 at Costco for a year’s supply. So now his BP is perfect, and in fact he had to decrease the dose when he became even more active (!) and cut most meat out of his diet. It is true that for some folks, when genetics is working against them, that going super extreme vegan diet can sometimes bring it down. But remember… eating vegan requires a lot of vigilance to make sure you don’t become vitamin (B12, calcium, vitamin D especially)/protein/nutritionally deficient.
So he decided there was no way he was going to restrict his eating that much. So he takes a baby dose of this medicine. And it turns out – this medicine is quite amazing and actually will prevent your risk of ever having a stroke or heart attack above and beyond its benefit for blood pressure. My parents were both on it for decades, and none had any heart attacks/strokes etc… for their entire lives. I will embrace it when my time comes, which is usually by perimenopause in my family (40’s).
So you could try doing everything you can to eat a plant based diet and decrease stress in your life (this can also exacerbate BP) – things like breathing exercises/mindfulness/yoga etc… Or see your doctor, possibly embrace lisinopril and accept that genetics can’t be beat for most of us. And that’s ok.
Let’s just say… if this is the biggest health problem you have right now, you are incredibly lucky and I’ll trade with you in a second.
And great job on the exercise and weight loss. You rock!
Anon
It can be genetic. The drugs are literally lifesaving – don’t put this off.
If you want to control this with lifestyle, then do so, but do so while taking the ace inhibitors or diuretics or whatever they give you. Don’t risk having a stroke or heart attack simply because you didn’t want to have to treat this.
I lost a friend this way a few months ago.
Anon
+1
I don’t see the shame in taking medication.
anon
FWIW, this was me. I did a hard assessment of my diet and cut salt way back, and it went back down. (For me, the biggest offender was soy sauce, in particular the homemade lo mein that I was making once a week. Also miso.)
Anonymous
If you’ve had COVID, that can be a contributor to hypertension.
Elbe
+1
PJ
You’re far from alone in mystery hypertension. Fortunately you caught it early and there are several effective and cheap medication options to try. I had to accept that. Learn how to properly measure BP at home. Many docs/nurses do not follow protocols
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2018/05/10/are-blood-pressure-measurement-mistakes-making-you-chronically-ill
Smokey
Gorgeous outfit! Does anyone have experience with the airline French Bee? It is showing pretty good prices to Paris, but it appears to be a no frills, discount carrier so I am a little wary.
Anonymous
Hhahahahah no but buyer beware. I would never.
Anon
My best friend owns an apartment in Paris and just told me to book on this airline (noting it was extreme no frills) and we laughed because she said inexplicably, their logo is a butterfly, even though the name is French Bee. She has taken it and recommended it, as long as you’re OK with what you’re getting into. Book with a card with a good refund policy–several budget European airlines have gone bust in recent years. I’ll be taking it this summer myself!
Anon
What kind of travel do you want to do? Frankly, I’m too old for that kind of discomfort, and paying for the extras I’d want probably makes it the same price as a regular ticket. I’d consider things like what airports they fly to, what kind of luggage you can bring and how much it costs, flexibility available, amenitites, etc. before buying a ticket.
Anon
I think foreign budget airlines generally tend to be better than US ones. I would NEVER fly Spirit or Allegient, but I’ve flown IcelandAir, Vueling, Air Canada Rouge, Norwegian Air, and I think a couple others with zero issues. The only international carrier I’ve heard a lot of bad things about is Ryan Air and even that I think is not as bad as the US budget carriers.
Cb
Yeah, Ryanair is the best way to get to my parents’ and it’s cheap and fine. Just watch your luggage allowance and bring your own food. My son became ill onboard (luckily just severe ear pressure but he’s 5 and he panicked) and the cabin crew was fantastic.
Anon
I’ve only flown Ryanair once, but by the time we paid all the charges for seat assignment and carry on luggage (yes there was a fee for having a small roller!) we may as well have booked a major airline. And the rest of the plane was a giant group of boisterous “lads” who had just spent a drinking weekend in Liverpool and that was … interesting
Anon
This was my experience the one time I decided to book a last-minute trip to Vegas on Spirit – there were a number of bachelor and bachelorette groups on the plane having, shall we say, a spirited good time that made the flight nearly unbearable. Never again.
On the plus side, everyone on the flight home seemed to be broke, hungover, or embarrassed by whatever they’d done in Vegas and the plane was dead silent the whole trip.
Anon
That’s every flight to Vegas, especially on Thursday and Friday nights. I used to live in the Bay Area and frequently flew to Vegas for the weekend and it’s always like this regardless of airline (I flew American and United, never Spirit). One time I got a first class upgrade and I sat next to a woman who did about 20 shots and was telling everyone she had to report to jail (!) on Monday and was having one final wild weekend in Vegas and had treated herself to the first class upgrade to celebrate. She also mentioned having $50k+ in credit card debt. Usually first class is stodgy businessmen and affluent couples around retirement age. Vegas is definitely a…unique, shall we say… crowd.
Anon
Thrive Cosmetics is stalking me online. BUT their “Instant Brow Fix Semi-Permanent Eyebrow Gel” does look exactly like I need (so they are good stalkers, even if they are stalkers). Has anyone ordered this from them? My brows have thinned out and a lot of products don’t go on naturally (my skill level likely at fault).
Anon
I haven’t tried it but lots of companies make something like this. Benefit is famous for theirs.
BeenThatGuy
I swear by their eyeshadow sticks. I’m not familiar with the eyebrow gel but I’d say it’s worth a shot to try it out.
Anonymous
I have it and I absolutely LOVE it. I find it easier to use than eye pencil and it looks very natural. Despite the name semi-permanent, I haven’t noticed any color change on my brows over time. But it’s still one of the first things I grab, even when I’m going for no make up on a weekend. It stays put until I wash it off and doesn’t flake and the brush is super easy to use to apply.
I also bought one of their eye shadow sticks and wasn’t that impressed. It just wasn’t very pigmented. Their mascara that is tubing is all really great. The next time I run out of brow gel, I’ll probably order that again.
Anon
Could I get some help from those more financially savvy than me? I have a 401k with Fidelity from my last job. It’s just been sitting there these last few months. I’ve decided I don’t want to roll it over to my new job’s 401k provider because I hate this new job and I’m actively trying to get out of here. I don’t want to commingle anything with new job.
Fidelity 401k is a mix of Roth and…not-Roth (I told you I’m not savvy). The mix comes from the fact that I rolled several old 401k’s into it at one point. I want everything to be converted to Roth and (I think?) want to roll it all into my own IRA and get it out of the old job 401k type account.
First, is there any reason I shouldn’t put it in an IRA? Second, should I open the IRA with Fidelity or is an IRA something I should shop around for at other financial institutions? Third, when I do this, would it be best do call/do it at a Fidelity branch versus online?
PJ
Fidelity is fine. There is a reason not to roll into an IRA: if you ever want/need to do a “ backdoor Roth IRA”, it’s much more complicated with an IRA in your name.