Coffee Break: Petit Moyen

74 Comments

1. FYI – no “i” in Clare V. Love my Clare V bags so much, and get compliments every single time I wear one. Am really tempted by this green.

   1. *facepalm* thank you fixed it!

2. For anyone with an autistic child, if they have gone to ABA therapy, how many hours a week did they go and what is their diagnosis?

   My kiddo is ASD-1. She has minimal support needs (just socially presents awkwardly) and is fairly academically bright (or at least is not behind).

   They want her to be in ABA for 40 hours a week. I think she should just go to K on time (she has a fall birthday, so is already on the older side for grade). And she is quite tall. She already sticks out, and would even more if I held her back. But what does 40 hours of ABA do? She isn’t disruptive. I’m not trying to make her Bama Rush ready, socially. When we started to pursue this, I thought it might be a few hours a week of social skills work, not 40.

   1. ABA is generally considered abusive by actually autistic people who have undergone the ‘therapy’. It teaches kids to disassociate and push down their discomfort for the benefit of neurotypicals.

      1. (I am an ASD 1 female, ‘low’ supports need, genius IQ)

      2. 40 hours seems excessive; would <5 work though?

         I'm not clear on how this is different from a social skills group though.

         1. A social skills group is a lot different than being in a room with a therapist who basically quizzes you to recite the appropriately memorized social niceties.

         2. Social skills group is probably group ABA which is a therapist facilitating structured play/roleplay/free play which can be helpful for school age kids to practice social interactions so interactions with neurotypical peers at school are less stressful. Seems like a more appropriate recommendation for OP’s kid over 40 hrs a week.

   2. I would seek another recommendation as a first step. This seems like a very high level of intervention for very low needs. Someone asked a similar question on the mom’s site a few months ago so you might check there.

      I’m not ABA (in the modern style, not the 1990s stuff), as it has helped family members with ASD 3 gain communication skills which have been important in addressing medical needs but I don’t think I’ve ever heard it recommended for an ASD 1 child at the level of 40 hrs a week vs say 2 hrs twice a week to practice play/social/communication skills.

      What is the school recommending in supports for her IEP next year?

   3. I’m not even really sure how a 5 year old could be far behind socially because there’s such a spectrum of typical behavior at that age and their are neurotypical 5 year olds who are so shy or reserved they basically don’t interact with peers.

      Either way, I would not even consider having 40 hours a week of therapy replace regular school for a kid who is academically bright but socially awkward. She needs to be in school.

   4. We did ABA for a while — we were also recommended 40 hours a week, which was like telling my toddler to get a job. It is a very opaque therapy that we couldn’t quite figure out benefits so we stopped during the pandemic when he was around 5 or 6 and haven’t picked it back up. We met some really nice RBTs (behavioral technicians, who you’ll mostly work with) and some BCBAs but the burnout level is really high so you’re mostly working with recent college grads.

      I’m not sure that ABA is abuse, but it is all compliance-based therapy, even “new ABA.” I’m not sure I would want a girl to go through it.

      ABA is also pushed heavily by the insurance industry and medical field because it’s the only kind of therapy that is totally data driven, so they can “prove” success. But when you compare that to play therapy, where someone is more interested in playing with your child and relating to them than staring at a clipboard to take notes, which kind of therapy do you want your kid to go through?

      Two articles that I’ve shared in the past and might be helpful, although they’re both on the older side:
      Transmitter fka Spectrum News – good publication with lots of info on autism research
      NeuroClastic – very biased against ABA, so take that with a grain of salt…

      https://www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/controversy-autisms-common-therapy/?format=pdf
      https://neuroclastic.com/is-aba-really-dog-training-for-children-a-professional-dog-trainer-weighs-in/

      1. ABA teaches girls with ASD to be extra compliant which sets them up to be easily abused (even more so than the general socialization of girls).

   5. It is bonkers to me that a child would be advised to attend therapy in lieu of school absent really severe circumstances, which don’t sound present here.

      If the “they” who wants her to attend 40 hours of ABA therapy a week is the therapy provider, I’d loop back to the school and pediatrician and see what they advise. And maybe consider if this particular therapy provider is really acting in the best interests of the whole child.

      1. + 1 to getting another recommendation. Even amongst ABA therapists, more than 30 hours is rare and 20-30 hours is usually for kids under 3 with severe issues who are non-verbal. The recommendation seems very very atypical for a verbal ASD 1 child who is kindergarten age.

         I would get a second opinion for any therapy for any condition that was that number of hours for a child.

      2. OP here. Our pediatrician recommended this. School didn’t think she’d need supports and she wasn’t eligible for developmental pre-K.

         I hope it would help her make a friend or two. She has never had a friend and is so terribly lonely.

         1. I would suggest setting up play dates with other neurodivergent little girls.

         2. Try reaching out to a local child psychology practice with a specialization in neurodiversity and see if they have play groups or other options.

            Did the pediatrician do the diagnosis as well? The recommendation seems very out of touch given that the school is not seeing issues.

         3. This is really common with autistic kids. Mine has been in ND-only spaces for a while now. If you think of neurodiversity as being “off the map” of regular childhood, they are all in their own corners of the map or off the map in their own directions. It’s really, incredibly hard to find even one or two friends who get you. To that extent I regret sending him to a school for ND kids.

            Try social groups instead or really really leaning into some of her special interests. If she’s gifted, try a school for gifted kids instead. Montessori could work in theory, but our local one was really horrible for my son’s issues.

         4. i think you need a new pediatrician. to me this rec is bonkers for the type of kid you described. i agree she might benefit from some social skills groups, but doesnt sound like she would need 40 hours per week of therapy

            1. OP here. She recommended ABA therapy as what was standard for autism. She didn’t specifically recommend 40 hours a week. But the center is pretty much rigid on this — we do 40 hours a week or nothing. IDK that the ped knows specifically how this works, just that when she was in school this was understood as the standard (and, hey, at least she isn’t on the “vaccines cause autism” trend, so there’s that). I tried saying to the provider that school is important and I have a job but they stressed that this is how it is done. We were even on a waiting list for a year, so there is some internal pressure for not being able to get her any help sooner.

            2. Sounds like a cash grab from the center. I’d run.

            3. +1 diagnosis should be done by a psychiatrist not a pediatrician, and 40 hours of therapy a week seems nuts.

         5. I assume there’s more to the diagnosis than just this? Because plenty of NT kids don’t make close friends in preschool and do fine socially later on.

            This has been discussed on the moms page a bit, but I actually think there’s sort of an inverse correlation between “popularity” in Pre-K and popularity later on. My friend has a theory that the most popular kid in preschool is just the loudest, because kids that age have short memories and when parents ask who their friends are they’re more likely to remember the names of the loudest kids. That proved fairly true for my kids, one of whom was the wallflower type who blossomed in elementary school and is super popular in middle school, and the other one who’s a loud class clown type (possible ADHD) who was a social butterfly from ages 3-7 but started to struggle socially in first grade when friends got sick of her talking all the time.

            Even if your kid is really struggling socially, I agree 40 hours of any kind of therapy is a massive overreaction. Plenty of socially awkward people get good jobs and live productive lives. Virtually nobody who doesn’t graduate from high school does. If she has at least an average IQ and her behavior isn’t disruptive, she needs to stay in mainstream school and work therapy in after school and on weekends.

         6. I teared up at this and wish I could give her a hug and be her friend. I’m an internet stranger with no kids, and I just want you to know I think you’re doing a great job trying to find the best solution for her and I hope she finds an activity and school she loves and has a life filled with friendship in the future.

            1. +1. I’m confident she will get there, Mom.

         7. I am late to this but my daughter would have really benefitted from exactly this. She’s 9. She’s gifted and while not quite to the level of
            Being diagnosed with autism, she has a lot of autistic personality traits that make her struggle with neurotypical kids socially. We bumbled along but eventually she made friends with other kids that were a little further from the norm, like her, and they are the best playdates. They sometimes co-DNGAF. Sometimes they feed off eachother and spin and act like lunatics. Sometimes it’s a friend that is really good about helping my kid manage her emotions despite her own emotional chaos.

            It’s been a weird ride because I have two other neurotypical kids, and one is (I laughed out loud at this descriptions) “bama rush ready” and the other has never met a stranger.

      3. I feel the 40 hrs seems clearly designed to (a) create a full time job (b) allow a caretaker to hold a full time job, which are societal benefits, but don’t really have anything to do with the developmental needs or capacities of the kids.

         1. I agree on (a) but I don’t think (b) applies. At least the family members/friends I know who have had a child do some ABA, it was always a requirement that a caretaker be present for the therapy. Sometimes this was a nanny or a grandparent but one friend switched to part time for a few years to accommodate the schedule of various interventions.

            1. I wonder if they want witnesses these days after all the accusations and scandals.

            2. Yeah it’s the opposite – someone (usually mom) has to quit her job to manage the therapy when it’s that many hours.

   6. I’m a parent of ASD kid. We use an ABA service but they provide a 1-on-1 aide for our kid in his (private) school and don’t actually provide much in the way of ABA-style therapy. The aide helps him stay on task and helps if he gets dysregulated. This has been really great for us because it allows DS to be in a gen ed classroom, where otherwise he might have to be in self-contained special ed due to behaviors. We’ve never used ABA for the kind of intensive therapy you’re talking about, and it doesn’t sound warranted here. Instead, I would suggest looking into occupational therapy for help with social skills and motor skills. We do that for 2 hrs/week and I think it helps a lot.

   7. Mom of two ASDers. They are in middle school now.

      My son did an ABA program for preK from age 3. What they did was teach him how to cope in a classroom. It was amazing to have him set up with that help and I didn’t appreciate it until my other ASD child was late to be diagnosed. We knew there was a problem when the classroom was getting trashed daily because they were unable to cope in the classroom. Got that child into the ABA class and it was too late. We ended up going hardcore with the BCBA and a RBT which was also not covered by insurance, ABA was.

      Word of advice on ABA. When done badly it’s abusive. When done well it’s amazing. We got lucky but that was because I was on top of it, stopping in to see the teacher daily and I had two teachers working in other parts of the school checking in on my child. You need to dedicate a lot of time to keeping the staff up to date with data from behaviors you see at home which are aligned with the goals they are working on during the 40 hours. The teachers should provide you with a detailed plan of goals they are working on and the data they are collecting. I had weekly formal check-ins and a quarterly review. My child who did ABA had one hour of speech and an hour of OT each day. It was extremely expansive but the results were amazing. Our child had selective mutism which was no longer an issue by K and muscle tone continues to be an issue but isn’t as bad as it could have been.

      If you have a high IQ ASD child look to supplement their education. The U.S. education system is incredibly slow at the start. I signed them up for chess, they did maths through Beast academy and I had them reading everything in the library.

      P.S. To the others saying this is childcare. No, it’s early intervention and if done properly it’s extremely effective. It has nothing to do with respite care for the parents. This is about preparing the child for school so they can attend the least restrictive environment, which is a huge cost saving for the district. It’s one of the few times it was a win-win for the district and our child. 40 hours is standard. It should also include speech therapy for social skills and OT/PT for fine and gross motor.

      1. Is your second child also male?

         1. No. I have one of each.

      2. But there’s nothing to indicate this child isn’t ready for school. I think one of the things that’s abusive is keeping kids out of school who don’t need it so centers can make $$$.

         1. +1

         2. How do you know if she is ready for school? These children very often are fine when mom is there in a familiar environment, but remove that support and it quickly descends into chaos.

            The centers are not making huge amounts and this is not about keeping children out of school. This actually has the opposite effect of making it harder for a child to be successful in grades 1-3. Going out of district at that stage is $100-120k per year. A year of ABA in a center for a child is about $40-60k depending on what services are offered in conjunction with the ABA therapy.

            1. I feel like $100-120k per year could pay for a lot of child care and tutoring, or even a full fledged governess.

            2. $100-120k is not paying for childcare or tutoring and a governess is not what a high needs child needs.

               These children with ASD need highly qualified and experienced speech therapists, OT, PT and behavioral experts, ideally BCBAs with RBTs implementing plans.

               Please consider that this type of education happens because a child can’t cope in a school setting and the district don’t have these staff available. It’s often cheaper for them to send the child out of district than it is to provide the services dictated by their IEP.

               As a parent of three children who all have IEPs, I do wish there was more communication about what special education includes and why it’s so expensive. It’s not job creation. It’s reducing costs long term, unless of course you who think a disabled person doesn’t have a right to life with any sense of quality.

      3. At least some kids trained to endure the classroom environment without trashing it are trashing their own internal psyche instead. And as you point out, school often isn’t academic enough anyway, so it’s often more childcare and respite while not meeting outlier students where they are at.

         1. I assume you were unlucky to have been exposed to bad therapy/insufficient care.

            ABA therapy was very effective for our son. He was also been set up with CBT to help with the psychological struggles. The reality is that ASD kids are going to have to learn to exist in this world. Masking is a useful skill to learn in school because they will need it to hold down a job. My daughter masks a lot and her schedule takes this into account.

            School is a struggle for them because they are gifted in the true sense. They need a whole different approach to their education and that’s a separate issue to their neurodivergence. Gifted doesn’t always mean high achieving and the gifted programs offered in our district are not designed for gifted students. Selection into the gifted program is based on cogat scores. The cogat is an achievement test, which has zero to do with giftedness. Some people are both high achieving and gifted but neurodivergence negatively impacts achievement scores in a lot of the population. My daughter tests as average in cogat but 99% in WISC in most areas, which is the test for giftedness. Her academic achievement is average at best. Outside of school she does great in creative projects. She has written two plays and made the costumes for one of the plays. No public school has the capacity to support this type of education.

            1. My issues with public school were sensory (it was a painfully distressing and overwhelming sensory environment), but I was taught to behave (i.e. suffer and disassociate). If jobs were truly like school, life would be endless torture, so I’m glad I never believed that characterization of this world. Jobs also pay, whereas the benefits of attending school remain unclear to me. As you point out, no public school supports an appropriate education for twice exceptional students.

            2. CBT also has special risks for ND patients; it’s hard for me to imagine finding it helpful with psychological struggles. I know everyone is trying to do their best and that the professionals in particular are benevolent and well meaning, but the status quo seems to be that they aren’t listening.

            3. I’m curious what you would have preferred to make the school environment tolerable? A lot of us are masking in a school environment – I did so due to anxiety, panic disorder and OCD; others do so for other reasons. We all put ourselves on our best behavior in a way that isn’t comfortable or conducive to our best selves. Isn’t that the norm for most people in a work or school or church/temple setting? (My own bias is watching a young family member with severe autism who has had a remarkable turnaround due to intensive ABA therapy – like he needed 24/7 supervision previously, attempted dangerous activities like running into traffic when they went out, was physically violent when he couldn’t express himself – and now he’s verbal and in a public school setting with other such kids. So ABA therapy doesn’t seem appropriate for everyone, but can be a godsend.)

            4. As a child, I really benefited from quiet environments with little commotion. I also needed to be away from flickering florescent lights (huge headache trigger) and strong odors that were nauseating to me (at my school mildew odors were strong).

               The library in contrast was the perfect indoor environment for me to learn and where most actual learning took place for me. And to be actually happy I needed a lot of time in nature (actual nature, not just outdoors) and around animals.

               I understand that everyone who can needs to learn not to lash out or meltdown because of being overstimulated or in pain, but if the reward for learning this is just being asked to endure more pain, I think that can lead to a bleak and despairing outlook or eventually to serious burn out. And what is it all for, if the school isn’t facilitating either learning or socialization but is just something to get through every day?

               I’m glad ABA helped your brother. I wish more expert and better researched interventions like OT were more widely available since ABA is so hit or miss.

            5. Anon at 1:06pm

               I read this and my heart goes out to you. It’s very hard as a parent to see my children struggle with school and I am always advocating (fighting) for their needs to be met.

               Fluorescent lights are a nightmare. I have none in my home and I went rouge to get them out of my children’s school. After I did it, I told the teachers what I had done. They all were amazed because behaviors had improved. The cost was about $3500 (it was a huge school and I was also supplying the maintenance team with replacements).

               The resistance I’ve had on these changes is sad because most of it is common sense. Who does well in a loud workplace with bright posters on the walls screaming at you? Why would we expect children to thrive in such an environment?

            6. That is such an incredibly awesome thing that you did that I teared up. I know not everyone can take on those kinds of costs, but thank you on behalf of everyone you helped!!

3. Has anyone seen a decent basic white blazer that is NOT a linen blend at like an Ann Taylor/J Crew price point recently? Need to replace my white work blazer and mostly I’m just seeing linen blend. J Crew had one, but it’s sold out in my sizes.

   1. Talbots has a long crepe blazer, if long will work.

   2. I bought one from Aqua at Bloomingdales. I don’t love it and I am returning and buying the AT linen blend. So maybe the Aqua one is for you. I guess it is crepe? I was hoping for more of a ponte, I think

   3. Favorite Daughter has one that I don’t think has linen in it

   4. Are you wanting 100% linen or no linen at all? I just tried a lovely 100% version from Quince but decided I prefer a blend because it’s less prone to wrinkles.

   5. Tommy Bahama has white linen. I have one of their lady jackets; don’t know if they are available this year.

4. Hi all, I am in Chelsea area of the NYC next week and was wondering if anyone has recs for things to do especially good food/ bakeries/ cafes and or other things esp that need reservations in advance.

   1. People seem to love Balthazar for all of that! Does need reservations I think. Nice Parisian atmosphere and a side bakery to take things home.

   2. For food, check out Chelsea Market. It’s a bit touristy but popular for a reason. https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodNYC/comments/1g967vl/favorite_food_from_chelsea_market/

      The far west side of the neighborhood is still home to a lot of NYC’s most well-established art galleries, so if you interested in visual art, you could check some of them out. You will also be right near the High Line and pretty close to the Whitney Museum.

      1. +! Chelsea Market is touristy but has lots of great food inside.

   3. I always loved these restuarants, but haven’t been in a while:
      Tia Pol – Spanish tapas, 10th
      Momoya – sushi

5. Hi all, I am coming from London and going to be in Chelsea area of the NYC next week and was wondering if anyone has recs for things to do especially good food/ bakeries/ cafes and or other things esp that need reservations in advance. I can walk or uber farther too.

   1. Some additional fun stuff to what has been posted above –

      Frenchette Bakery is amazing for breakfast/lunch. Original location is in Tribeca inside a lobby of an easy to miss, nondescript office building, but they have a location in the Whitney too (meatpacking area, just a bit over from Chelsea). The Whitney is a great museum to visit too.

      On a Wednesday or Saturday morning, you can visit the Union Square Greenmarket – always fun and tasty; breads bakery on 16th street nearby is great if you don’t end finding enough stuff to snack on at the market.

      Her Name is Han is a really fun Korean restaurant not too far from you. Really great food. Fun ambiance. Reservation wouldn’t hurt.

      Via Carota in the village has amazing Italian. You can generally just walk in for lunch, dinner reservations are hard, but they take walks ins so just come early, put your name down and go walk around or have a drink somewhere nearby.

      Also by way of cafes, get a cappuccino, or anything really, at Eataly on 23rd street and sit at one of the cafe tables outside to people watch everyone in Madison Square Park. The Rizolli bookstore nearby is one of my favorite places. Anita Gelato, on the same block, has some of the best ice cream (and that’s saying a lot in NYC). Fun shopping if you walk down 5th avenue from there (towards Union Square and the famous green market).

      Enjoy!

6. We just bought a Peloton! My husband has had one before and liked it, but it’s new to me. Any tips for a beginner? Any favorite instructors?

   1. Depends on my mood and what music I’m feeling. Robin is my favorite overall. For an easy / light-hearted ride, I like Cody. I also like country music, so Ally is my other go-to.

   2. I love Sam Yo. He’s definitely less high energy than some of the other instructors, but I find him very calming and supportive. He also has some killer playlists! If you like workouts where the instructor is yelling at you, he will not be your guy.

   3. Get the shoes, if you haven’t already. Well worth it to clip in rather than using the slip-in toe cages.

   4. We’ve had ours for about two years. I started with Beginner rides and then Low Impact. I think Advanced Beginner is where they start having you get up off the seat “out of the saddle”) during rides. Then we both did the Discover your Power Zones series, which I enjoyed. There are several other power zone series after that one if you enjoy that approach.
      My favorite instructors are Sam, Cody, Ben, and Emma, depending on what mood I’m in! Sam is sweet and positive but sometimes talks too much for me. Cody is fun and a little irreverent and his rides often push me but in a good way. Ben is pretty chill, as is Emma.

   5. Yay! I don’t have the Peloton equipment but have had the Peloton app since 2020 and love the fitness classes a lot! I have a non-peloton tread and rower that I can very easily do their tread and rowing classes with, but most of all I do their strength and

      Tips:
      At least on the app, when selecting a class you can look at the class playlist – half the time I pick a class based on the playlist. :)
      Use the “stack classes” feature and bookmarks to save classes. I will usually do this on my phone, then switch to the big tv that we have in our gym – but I think you would switch to the screen that’s on your bike.
      Check out the Hardcore on the Floor Facebook group. I’ve never actually followed the calendar (created by a trainer – uses different peloton classes from the library to make a training calendar) but it’s a great community and fun to see them chatting about specific classes. I’ll do classes after I see the group talking about how good they are.
      Related – certain Peloton groups online are really awesome and supportive and others….are not. So if you find yourself in a toxic one, I def suggest you leave for a more supportive one. Groups focused around certain instructor classes tend to be pretty supportive from what I’ve seen.
      The programs are great. I particularly like the Rebecca Kennedy Splits programs (strength).
      Shorter classes are not necessarily easier than longer classes, but usually more fast paced to pack stuff in. Longer classes have a lot more time for warm up and breaks. If I have time I have found that I prefer 45 minute classes to 20 minute classes.

      My Favorite Instructors:
      Rebecca Kennedy is my favorite. Especially her current stuff. Also her standing core. and her low impact cardio. and her tread hikes.
      Cody Rigsby – I hack his cycle classes into tread classes just so I can listen to him talk
      Andy Speer – so goofy, almost always makes me laugh out loud.
      Aditi Shah for yoga. I teach yoga and am somewhat picky when it comes to yoga classes, but I actually really like all most of the peloton instructors.

      I will say that favorite instructors are somewhat polarizing in different group and everyone seems to have different favorites, so have fun trying them out! Then when you find a few you really love, if you take their classes consistently they will often be programming intentionally across their classes. They don’t say it explicitly but it becomes pretty well rounded.

      Have fun!

7. Does anyone else feel like your energy goes out the window when we have big swings in temperature? So exhausted today.

   1. I did before I started taking electrolytes! I have hypotension and it’s worse in the summers unless I’m eating a good amount of salt.

8. what’s your favorite concealer? looking for a new one since they stopped making my favorite elf one.

   1. Oh no my favourite concealer is ELF, I really hope they didn’t discontinue it

   2. after trying like 6 more expensive ones, the $10 Maybelline Age Rewind drugstore one.

      1. Yup, same.

   3. I have struggled to find a good concealer (also had an Elf favorite that’s gone). This is the best one I’ve found so far – and it’s vegan, and cheap! I’m fair skinned and use the “light rose” color.

      https://www.catricecosmetics.com/products/under-eye-brightener?srsltid=AfmBOoqjWHhjh5fFCDrw_TeuFLJ1por3hhGSfAXknNWObLIWjzOwgB3o

      It’s available on Amazon, but I’m trying to cut my Amazon spending as much as possible.

9. Such a chic and functional bag — love pieces that balance style and practicality. If you’re also looking to refresh your wardrobe staples, Wholesale Clothing T-Shirts has solid, affordable options that work with almost any look.

Comments are closed.