Weekend Open Thread

99 Comments

1. Random and maybe there’s not enough readers right now but I was wondering if 2019 Canoe Associate is still in Biglaw and if there were any long-term consequences from that trip. Would love an update.

   1. How do you people remember this stuff?? I can’t remember what I did yesterday! But I do vaguely remember this now that you mention it.

      1. I don’t remember this; what was the story?

         1. Here is the original post from 2019!
            https://corporette.com/suit-of-the-week-90/#comment-3957818

            1. IIRC there was an update post, but I searched and couldn’t find it…

   2. Canoe Associate lives rent free in my mind, I think about that way more often than I should!

      1. Same!

   3. I really hope she is thriving. And she made me want to canoe

   4. I’ve read since literally the beginning and don’t remember that thread specifically, but I am dying to know if people think the same thing would be the case in 2025, being here 5 years post-Covid. 2019 just feels like a really really different time to me.

      1. Tbh as a non law person my question becomes are other people working over Thanksgiving. If everybody else including your boss is planning to be putting in multiple hours then yeah, it’s v tone deaf to a few days before say your holiday is more important than anyone else’s. On the other hand, if the bosses are planning to “be available” but not actually be doing work, it’s less of an issue. If it were a random weekend sure, but a holiday if everybody else is planning to work through and had to adjust their holiday plans accordingly? Bad form.

      2. I revisited this because I was curious if my thoughts have changed. I don’t know if being a junior associate is any different in Canada than in the U.S., but my advice to her would still have been not to go on the canoe trip unless she was prepared to look for a new job within the year.

         1. Agree.

      3. I just re-read the post to see. I think more people might be willing to take that risk in 2025 than they were in 2019. But if your client and peers are working through the holiday weekend to get something done, it’s still really, really not a good look to say your off-the-grid vacation takes priority.

      4. Interesting thread. I do think she should have brought it up earlier, but I would have said it was “visiting family in XYZ rural location” as one commenter suggested and taken the trip. And found wifi somewhere at Starbucks/hotspot etc as some other commenters said. A balance of taking the trip but being realistic that this is not going to go over well at all, and expecting extra work before and after.

         1. I believe she pulled an all nighter just before the trip and delayed meeting her family to work extra time, IIRC?

      5. IDK, it still sounds pretty bad in 2025! And I don’t even work in Big Law.

   5. Ha, I missed that post the first time.

      I’m a Canadian not in big law, but working downtown Toronto. I do think the big law culture is quite different here, such that she was unprofessional in not providing more notice, but not wildly out of line with local norms. If she was otherwise a strong contributor, it would be annoying but unlikely to influence things long term, and certainly nothing that could get her immediately fired (which is hard to do anyways).

      Also the salary mentioned would have been wildly high for Toronto at the time – a 2nd or 3rd year associate would have made under $200k CAD including bonus for hitting target.

2. Does anyone here do Disney as an adult, like without kids? My neighbors used to go on cruises and other stuff all the time but I don’t get it.

   1. Yes I’ve been to Disney as an adult without kids several times. It’s weird to me that you don’t get that people like different things? I enjoy a lot of the rides, I love the people watching, I find I really disconnect from my day to day there, and I enjoy strolling Epcot with a drink in hand. Idk why that’s weird. I’m not like particularly into Disney it’s not my only vacation but from time to time it’s really fun for me! I’m pregnant now and sad I didn’t squeeze in one last child free visit.

      1. I think there’s people like you who enjoy it casually but also people that are Super Into It. On a flight back from Orlando I was behind a couple who only vacation at Disney World (they were chatting loudly!), wife was wearing a princess tiara and Mickey earrings, etc. I mean – glad they found each other but maybe just *try* a non-Disney trip before you write the rest of the world off!

   2. The Disney cruise is by far the most luxurious cruise I’ve taken. The food was so good. It’s very possible to avoid kids on it because of the adult bars and lounges. I would go as an adult, but it’s too much fun to have the kids along. I get it.

   3. Disney adults are a thing. I think it’s kinda weird but life is short, do what makes you happy.

   4. I am not a “Disney adult,” but I quite like Disneyland and wouldn’t mind going on another Disney cruise.

      Disney World is not a place I need to go back to.

      1. I told my husband I wouldn’t have kids with him if we ever had to go to Disneyworld. I like Disneyland fine. Disneyworld was the site of all of the most stressful family vacations of my childhood, and I hated the humidity, the endless stretches of strip malls, all the rest.

   5. I went to Disneyland with my husband once and we had a blast. It was so fun! I know there are adults who go all the time (I’ve worked with two) and it’s not my thing, but it beats sitting home on the couch. The only thing I draw the line at is bowling over little kids to take photos with characters.

   6. Without kids, the pressure to optimize the experience is much less, which makes it more fun in a way.

   7. At this point, I think Epcot is all Disney adults. I’m far from a prude and I’ve taken my kids to bars, but Epcot was a different level of sloppy drunkenness. Drinking around the world in the heat is a terrible idea.

      1. I’m from NYC, have attended the St Patrick’s Day Parade and seen ‘SantaCon’ (against my will but I work in midtown), and the behavior of the crowds at Epcot for the Food and Wine festival are WAY worse. I was shocked at how lax the park security was that they were allowing people to get so sloppy drunk and to be so disruptive to other guests. I’ve sworn off going to Epcot ever again – it’s not worth it for the food and the drink around the world people are awful.

         1. Wow!!! 👀👀

   8. Yes, I have a group of friends that like to go once a year without any kids. We all grew up to have big professional jobs and came from poor(er) families so we never got to go as children. Our inner kids very much just having a few days where we eat, drink, buy things our parents would have said no to, and go on rides. I will say most of the frustrations (kids upset in line, the cost of stuff when it’s an extra $20 x 5 for the whole family ) that people have with Disney just aren’t present when you go without kids. We also do the RunDisney races which rival the major marathons in terms of how much race support (water stations, food, etc.) and vibes are there to make it fun.

      1. Love this

   9. No, though we have some fringe friends who are total Disney adults. They do not have kids. I think it’s kinda weird and it’s not where I’d choose to frequently vacation, but you do you.

   10. I live in Southern California, so Disneyland is a day trip for me. I probably go once a year or so depending on how often I have family visiting but enjoy the occasional visit on my own or with another adult. I like the rides, the food and the general vibe. I particularly like going around the holidays to see the decorations. It helps get me in the Christmas spirit.

       I have only done DIsney cruises with family that has kids but enjoyed it. I would not do it without kids, but that is mostly because I do not love cruises. However, I can completely see why people who like cruising would enjoy them.

   11. I love Disney (although I’m not a “Disney adult”). I most recently went for my 30th birthday. There’s a huge nostalgia factor for me because I went many times as a kid.

       I wouldn’t do a cruise, though – a cruise is my idea of hell.

   12. I have only gone to Disneyland and Disneyworld with my kids, so I don’t have the experience of going as an adult without children. But I also don’t want to haha. I like Disney with children because they love it and I like to see my children excited over the magic that Disney creates. To me, much of Disney is a slog. It is humid in Florida much of the year. California weather is usually nice, but the lines are long, the food is mediocre and expensive, and people do not act like it is the happiest place on earth lol. Now that my kids are older I am happy to never go again.

   13. We are Californians (Bay Area) and have been taking our kids to Disneyland since they were in strollers. My husband absolutely loves it, even follows the Disneyland group on Reddit to keep up to date with all the tips. He takes our now early 20s kids once or twice a year and everyone comes home happy. I’m happy to stay home and be in charge of the pets these days!

   14. I would have said the same before we went there with kids, but now I can see it! I particularly recommend it to my Star Wars friends who also like food and drink at Epcot (but I guess the food and wine festival is not #goals anymore based on the poster below!) There is also such a level of care and thoughtfulness with everything Disney does – it really is a hospitality brand as much as an amusement park.

   15. We took a Disney cruise as a family a couple months ago. I really enjoyed it for a family trip but I’d never go without kids. We saw a surprising number of childfree adults though. Some even waited in line to meet princesses which I thought was annoying and a little crappy to the young kids waiting.

   16. I judged Disney adults before I had kids, but now after going on a few Disney cruises with my kids, I totally get it. Disney is very wholesome and nostalgic and good always defeats evil, and considering the world today it’s pretty nice to escape into a world like that. It’s also pretty neat seeing how magical it is for kids, and Disney does a really nice job with special needs kids and adults as well. I still judge the adults who stand directly in front of the kids during the shows, but I would never again be disdainful if that’s how someone chose to spend their vacation time, kids or not.

   17. I work in theater in NYC and there’s some overlap in the theater person and Disney person communities. I have a coworker who used to work at Disney, and she loves visiting. And then I knew this guy who would go see theater 4 nights a week, every week, who also LOVES Disney. Very gay, no kids. Disney does have an absolutely incredible attention to detail, and of course, very high standards for artistry and theatricality, so it kind of makes sense to me.

       1. The shows on Disney cruise ships are seriously Broadway caliber. I wouldn’t do Disney without kids but we took a family cruise and the shows were the highlight for me.

3. Any recommendations on things to do in York, England? (3 adults and a 10yo.) We are renting a flat near the city center and will be using public transit for everything.

   1. How long are you there and when in the year? The classics are the Minster (cathedral), a ghost walk, walking the city walls, a boat trip along the Ouse. The Castle Museum has a very good example of a recreation Victorian high street and the Jorvik Viking Centre used to be pretty good. My nephew of a similar age enjoyed The Chocolate Story, many children like the York Dungeon (same ownership as the better-known London Dungeon). The Railway Museum is undergoing renovations at the moment so not as good as usual, but if anyone is into trains it’s worth a look. The Shambles is full of tedious knock-off Harry Potter shops but quick to walk down, make sure to look up. If you’re there several days you could consider a trip to Leeds (about half an hour on the train), Castle Howard (about fifteen miles outside the city centre, doable in a taxi), or going into the Yorkshire Dales for walks or cute villages by train or bus.

      1. Jorvik Viking Centre is a rite of passage. Definitely don’t miss! It’s cheesy but fun, and one you won’t forget.

         1. Haha, I went there as an adult and yes, very cheesy, but I guess I still remember it :-)

            1. I went decades ago and the smell still stays with me. My kids will definitely be going when we visit York!

      2. The city wall wall was my favorite thing and I’d also get up every morning to walk in the city near the minster. Leeds Castle outside the city was pretty cool, though I was there for a work thing so didn’t get the full tourist experience.

   2. 2nd all the things listed below. I went to York over Thanksgiving and loved it! And have a Sunday roast (or any meal really) at the Fat Badger. If I had kids, I’d consider renting a car and going to the Yorkshire dales and stopping along the way. Go to Evensong at the cathedral. Visit Whitby and have fish and chips. York is awesome, the people are wonderful, enjoy!

4. Had a pretty brutal performance conversation yesterday with a direct report and HR. I know that bosses are not supposed to be bothered about this stuff, as it’s part of the job, but I find it awful. I find myself replaying the conversation in my head and hoping I struck the right tone. Ruminating/justifying my decision to bring in HR, over and over in my head. Honestly, I don’t think the problem is fixable in the long run, and I think he knows it, too.

   What’s done is done, but would love some thoughts on getting out of my head for a bit.

   1. thank you for having the guts to do it. Too many managers shy away from tough conversations and then their peers are looking around like ‘why am I trying so hard if this dude can do XYZ and nothing happens.’

      1. So true! I actually changed a lot of my approach to work (for the worse) after seeing a (male) colleague goof off and get better assignments. We worked together and I couldn’t believe the crap he turned in for his contributions.

   2. I’ve been there. Unless you have super useless toxic HR, it was good to bring them in.

   3. You’re a boss, not a robot. These conversations are hard but so necessary, so kudos to you for getting it done.

   4. I’m about to be the direct report in this situation and would have appreciated my manager being much clearer six months ago. I’m preparing to quit at my review – as in your situation, the problem is not fixable in the long run and I don’t need be at this particular circus any longer.
      go for a walk, get some good music on, get yourself moving. you did the right thing.

      1. Curious why you will quit at your review instead of now? I think you’ll be respected more for ripping off the bandaid.

         1. it gives me a few more weeks of income and leaves the very small opportunity for reality to be kinder than my imagination.

   5. I’m in the same boat. We’ve had ongoing issues, I step in and micromanage so the performance improves, I step back and the performance declines. We finally moved to a formal PIP, and the performance issues have continued in the same way, with the glimmer that maybe this time, it will be better, but the next week, nope, missing the mark.

      It really sucks to have these conversations. I had to let someone go previously due to performance issues, and despite documentation, it was the right call, the person had started showing up late and hungover, it was still really terrible to have the conversation.

      Do what you need to do, but it’s ok to feel bad about doing it.

   6. I feel like the fact that you care this much probably means you’re handling it well, or as well as possible in tough circumstances.

5. Favorite relatively quick NYT Cooking recipes for weeknight dinners? Just recently obtained access.

   1. I’m not usually a recipe follower, but I do actually use these two from NYT (with a few adjustments lol, because why would I do it exactly?):
      – Miso-Chile Asparagus with Tofu by Melissa Clark, but I used chile crisp instead of cooking oil, garlic, and asparagus together, and I didn’t use any sake/wine/vermouth in the sauce. It is SO GOOD and really fast
      – Turmeric-Black Pepper Chicken with Asparagus by Ali Slagle, but I prefer it with broccoli cut into thin trees instead of asparagus. I’ve made it both ways, but the asparagus got overcooked and the broccoli held up better

   2. There are so many good ones! Our tried and true favorites:
      – Pasta with Pumpkin Seed Pesto by Genevieve Ko
      – Chicken-Zucchini Meatballs with Feta by Ali Sage
      – White Chicken Chili by Lidey Heuck
      – White Bean, Rice, and Dill Soup by Naz Deravian
      – Easiest Chicken Noodle Soup by Alexa Weibel
      – Sticky Miso Salmon Bowl by Andy Baraghani
      – Skillet Refried Beans with Avocado and Radish by Sarah Copeland
      – Beans and Greens Alla Vodka by Ali Sage
      – Fried Rice by Sam Siftin

   3. Roasted Broccoli and Whipped Tofu With Chile Crisp Crunch, Dumpling and Smashed Cucumber Salad With Peanut Sauce, Sweet Chile Grain Bowl With Tofu, Spicy Red Pesto Pasta, Cauliflower Shawarma With Spicy Tahini, Tzatziki Chickpea Salad, Charred Corn and Chickpea Salad With Lime Crema, Edamame Pesto Pasta

      (though like the poster above, I usually don’t exactly follow the recipe. NYT Cooking is great because the comments are really helpful and often have lots of good suggestions for variations and modifications.)

   4. Baked fish with sesame and ginger. The easiest.

      https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1013948-baked-fish-with-sesame-and-ginger

   5. I made these lemon-pepper chicken breasts last night. So delicious and goes well with a bagged salad.

      https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1026851-lemon-pepper-chicken-breasts

   6. Salmon with dill rice
      Salmon with chili crisp
      (Also salmon couscous but that one takes a while, but it’s a very interesting weekend recipe!)
      Lemony Greek chicken, spinach, and potato stew

      We were recently meh on
      Ritz cracker chicken
      Lemony hummus pasta

   7. The caramelized shallot pasta. You will question how it could possibly be good as you cook it but just trust the recipe. Bonus – it makes enough for two dinners so you have dinner for next week too.

   8. The Shrimp tacos and the middle school tacos are tasty and quick. We make them at least once a month.
      Braised White Beans and Greens with Parmesan.
      Quinoa and Broccoli Spoon Salad- great for packing lunches.
      Roasted Salmon with miso rice and ginger scallion sauce.
      Vegan Pesto Pasta Salad

6. Does Boden have any notable and predictable sales? I do not want emails. I want to buy a couple dresses but find it hard to stomach $200 each, would love at least 25% off but preferably more. My size is rarely available on clearance though.

   1. You’re going to get emails once you’ve ordered no matter what, so might as well subscribe for the discount and the sale notifications.

      1. You do not have to subscribe to marketing emails. There is always a way to opt out.

         1. I can’t speak for Boden since I don’t shop there, but I have never, ever had a retailer respect me opting out of marketing emails at point of sale.

         2. Boden UK is the absoute worst at respecting opting-out I’ve ever experienced.
            A few, years back, so hopefully they’ve become better at following UK consumer rights, but I had the worst time trying to get them to stop spamming me. I was unsubsribed to everything, but still got weekly emails.

   2. The one I normally track or notice is in mid- to late-March. I don’t think I get a ton of emails from them and do appreciate their $15 or $25 discount on my birthday purchase.

   3. Not to thread jack but I truly truly hate all the garbage we’re sent in email these days. The best way I’ve found to keep minimal emails is to change my email address but they inevitably get added to lists at some point. And a big FU to act blue or whatever and how easy it was to make one donation split to a bunch of politicians for things like George Floyd or abortion, I feel like that’s 50% of the garbage I get.

      1. I just use the same email for all my shopping and only use it as needed.

   4. Just google “Boden coupon codes” There is one for dresses right now WD30

      1. Yep. 30% off all full price dresses at present.

   5. I go through Rakuten to get to Boden. Currently it’s only 2 percent cash back, but I think it goes higher at the end of a season.

   6. They have sales pretty constantly and especially later in each season. But often some colorways go out of stock before the deepest discounts–I notice this more at Boden than at other retailers–and the biggest discounts are for final sale items. If you get on their snail mail list they send vouchers worth $15 off a couple times a year, and also send a voucher around your birthday.

7. Seeking advice or maybe just some support and commiseration from the other women here… I have run and participated in several “Women in STEM”-type groups and been very vocal about empowering women in male-dominated fields, including engaging HR to better support women in certain scenarios at work to help steer us toward positive change.

   I was recently on a call with my c-suite team + outside counsel, all men. They were cracking jokes about impregnating junior associates. I just kind of laughed and played along — I was the most junior person there, it had been drilled into me how important the relationship with OC is, and the project I’m on is really important to me (the biggest in my career).

   I feel like I betrayed my gender… I should have said something. But it didn’t seem like the right time. I don’t know. Help?

   1. Impregnating junior associates?!? 🤮 That’s disgusting, but if it’s the c suite I think all you can do is leave because reporting it to HR will certainly backfire

   2. That is so hard. It can be really difficult to say anything in a moment like that. You’re shocked that it was even said so no wonder you didn’t have an immediate comeback. I was in a similar situation one time when a female colleague and I were in a zoom meeting with two men from a different company that we were collaborating with, and we were waiting for a fifth person to join. My colleague and I turned off our cameras and mics and these two men forgot that we could still hear and see them. So they were talking and one of them (the junior of the two) made an obscene gesture, totally inappropriate for the business meeting we were in. Afterwards, I kept thinking I could have turned on my mic and said “You know we can still see and hear you and that was disgusting,” but I didn’t. I wasn’t a junior person in that meeting either. What I did do a couple of days later (after agonizing about it and concluding I had to say something) was call the senior of the two and I told him my colleague and I saw and heard their conversation. He was really embarrassed and apologized and assured me it wouldn’t happen again. It told me a lot about the culture of their company. In your place as a junior, is it something you’d be comfortable talking to your direct supervisor about? Or is there a more senior woman in your company that you could talk to and get her take on whether to escalate it? Because that’s sexual harassment against you to talk like that in front of you.

   3. Is your boss the GC, and were they on the call? I would present this as a legal risk, because it is one. “Hi boss, on our recent call, there were quite a few jokes made that could lead to legal exposure for the company by both our team and outside counsel. Could we talk about refreshing gender discrimination trainings for 2026?” (Bonus points if employment law is under your purview).

      If not, if you have a friend in Legal, convey the above to them via voice (video or in person meeting). If you are worried about reprisal, depending on the size of your company, an anonymous whistleblower hotline may also be available.

      1. Agree. I like this script too!

   4. It is so, so hard to do anything in the moment, and this is a complex situation. But it’s not too late. Maybe find a way to register your protest, maybe with legal or something. At the very least, document this incident.

   5. Doesn’t this meet the definition of a hostile workplace? I don’t blame you for not saying anything, as if the C-suite team and a lawyer are dumb enough to be saying this openly, it doesn’t seem like they would be real receptive to negative feedback.

   6. You did not betray your gender! You did not do anything wrong. There will always be jerks and we have to pick our battles. When I was a junior partner in a big law firm, there was a partner who was very unpleasant to associates. There was nothing I could do. I moved to another firm (for unrelated reasons) and became more senior. I ran teams where I could insist that everyone treat everyone with respect. The unpleasant guy tried to come to my new firm, which rejected him immediately when I told them that in my experience he treated associates very poorly. If we take on the wrong battles, we never get to a position to make a difference.

8. Anyone here happen to have recs for how to kill a few hours in Paris near Gare de Lyon? I’ve been to the city a few times before and have done most of the major tourist stuff so not interested in trying to metro to the central areas, but would love a rec for where I can get a great croissant and cafe au lait nearby and anything that might be nice to do in that area.

   1. wander over to the Jardin des Plantes?

   2. Place des Voges?

9. Help me use my words. I had a second date with a guy last night. It just went ok, which is how I would also describe the first date. In the moment, I always come up with all these ways in my head that I can make things work with a guy. But then the clarity of the next day makes me realize I’m just not into him. Fine, just use my words and tell him it’s not going to work out, right? Well, I should add that I gardened with him on my couch last night after the date. I’m beating myself up now over doing that…I think it was a combination of the whole “trying to make things happen” with the guy and also it had been a year for me, so one thing led to another. But what do I say now?

   1. Maybe I score low on the empathy side, but I’ve slept with guys and broken things off the morning after (and once, the night of). It depends on how much you like him, and the likelihood of running into him again (are you in the same social circles?). If he’s more of a rando, you can just say, “I had a great time last night, but this isn’t really working for me. Wish you all the best” or something. Second date, even with sex, just isn’t that serious imo so a text breaking things off seems fine.

      1. I’d probably phrase it more like ‘I really gave this a try, but the spark is just not there for me’
         Obviously it’s 2025, and having sex doesn’t oblige you to do something you don’t want to do. But if you were looking for a way to rationalize it, I would think that you earnestly explored your romantic AND sexual chemistry, so you can now confidently say that it’s not a match, and move on!

         1. Both replies are solid, but this one really resonates with me. You gave it a good whirl to see if it’s working. If you say it’s not, that’s exactly enough of a reason to use one of those scripts and move on.

         2. I would not say “the spark isn’t there” in this context. That is mean if you say it immediately after gardening! It’s basically saying they’re bad at it. I also wouldn’t say “I really gave this a try,” because (1) it’s been two dates and (2) that makes it sound like you were dragging yourself against your will to the dates.

            This is an excellent time to say “you are wonderful, but this just isn’t the right fit for me. It’s a me thing, not a you thing. I wanted to let you know instead of just fading.”

            1. +1 Be kind as well as clear.

            2. I don’t think lack of spark implies either partner is “bad” at gardening. Sometimes two people just don’t mesh together without it being anyone’s fault.

            3. I would absolutely take it as “I didn’t enjoy gardening with you” if it came right after the first time, and I think most people would.

            4. Totally agree. Some of the nicest rejections I got while dating used the “just not a match” script.

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