Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Leather Maxi Skirt
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This leather skirt from Me + Em is a bit out of my price range, but that’s not going to stop me from dreaming about it. The cut is perfect, and the gorgeous olive color and button accents make it even better.
I would style this with a conservative top for the office (like this black-and-white number), but if you really want to lean into the olive leather look, there’s also a matching top.
The skirt is $945 at Me + Em and comes in sizes 2-12.
Sales of note for 10/9
- Ann Taylor – 40% off must-have styles, and 30% off your full price purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 25% off
- Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles with code
- The Fold – Up to 25% off with their Workwear Mix and Match offer
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 40-70% off everything + extra 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Fall style event! 25% off $500+, 30% off $750+ — try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Nordstrom – 1000+ new markdowns!
- Nordstrom Rack – UGG up to 40% off
- Soma -$25 off when you spend $110+, also get a free bra when you buy two
- Talbots – 30% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $150+
I am a mid-level manager on a technical team. We are usually remote, but last week had a few days of meetings in person. I found out that I have a reputation for being strict or particular. Not in a micromanaging way, just in terms
of having specific systems or standards in place. And imo not putting up with nonsense. I also found out that in general people think I manage my team well, and are, to some extent, putting those same practices into place on their teams.
someone also told me that it never seems like I say no. That’s hilarious because I do say no to other teams all the time, I just don’t use the word “no”.
interestingly enough, I don’t think my own direct reports think I’m strict. It’s more other teams that I feel have historically tried to trample over my team to get their way.
Is this something I should
be worried about?
No, please no.
This is a good thing. I absolutely loathe when standards are arbitrary; it’s a sign of a badly-managed team, favouritism, a manager who takes credit for employee’s work, etc.
If people are implementing this with their own teams, it is almost always a very good thing.
If you don’t say no but you don’t allow your team to get steamrolled, that’s also a good thing.
Agree with all this. I want my managers to stand up for their team, have clear standards, and have clear ways of working with other teams.
It kind of sounds like that’s the reputation you want to have, whatever its pros and cons?
Generally, yes. As anon @ 8:23 said standardized standards and no favoritism are very important to me. I just want a gut check that there isn’t some downside I should be aware of. Honestly it all seemed so normal to me I never clocked that I was “stricter” than others, but apparently it is. I do word things carefully and neutrally, which I think comes across based on the “never says no” comment.
The most obvious downside would be if you worked with people who expect you to be more warm and caring and accommodating because that is often expected of women and could view you more negatively because you don’t fit that expectation.
This company has a lot of women in leadership, including the CEO. So likely not an issue here. But that is something to keep in mind for the future.
Women can have these expectations just as likely as men, and often this is on a subconscious level rather than outright, but the fact that you have a critical mass of women in leadership roles will really help there.
what’s there to be worried about?? I’m hearing no-nonsense, high standards, well-managed team. You sound like a highly effective boss AND employee.
This is good! It’s similar to me and I think the reputation has served me well in my career.
Well, it’s good with peers and bosses but I’d be a bit concerned about recruiting people to work for you. A lot of my success has come from being the person top talent wants to work for and that’s my reputation. I treat people like equals and as a result have a really high performing team. Your reputation matters all the way around, not just up and over.
I would absolutely want to work for a manager who has high standards and doesn’t put up with nonsense. Sounds like a dream boss to me (as a high achiever. Maybe different for a slacker, but who wants to recruit them anyway?)
I’d just be cautious in OPs shoes about what her real reputation is. Strict can read as micromanager, and most people don’t want that, especially high achievers.
I’m not at all a micromanager, and as I said my team doesn’t think I’m strict. In fact, 2 people who were unhappy moved to my team and now are happy. So I’m not concerned about that.
A lot of the strictness is for the teams benefit.
You asked the question. It doesn’t really matter what your team thinks, it’s what is your actual reputation. Strict can read as “my one true way” and difficult. If you’re so confident your reputation is secure, why ask?
You’re fine. This reads like a humblebrag! In any case, I’d far rather work for someone strict but fair than someone prone to favoritism or sloppiness.
It depends. I’ve had managers who confuse standards and rigidity (example: standard: all products are produced on time and have been proofread twice for quality; rigidity: all products may only be proofread with my favorite obscure dictionary). Ask yourself honestly on which side you fall, and then move forward. [It may also depend on the context in which you received this information as to whether it is something to worry about or not].
Definitely standards by those definitions. I couldn’t care less which dictionary you use but it better be proofread.
If it repeatedly isn’t proofread I will start asking about the dictionary etc, but as long as it’s proofread properly I’m good.
It depends on how honest the feedback was or if they were sugar coating it so as not to rock the boat. Who shared this with you? Would their job be negatively impacted if you were offended by their opinion?
LOL no. It was different execs who can all say whatever they want.
If I’m reading this right, the high standards/strict/particular things you’re asking about is less your reputation as a manager for your reports; and more your reputation among “stakeholders”/ie other teams you need stuff from your team. I’m guessing this means things like you require a specific intake form before your team takes on projects, or you maintain a prioritized list of things your team is working on, and make execs take something off if they are going to add something?
In my experience, this can be a double-edged sword, assuming your team is fundamentally a support team. The ultimate question is “Is it easier for your stakeholders to get what they need from your team than it would be otherwise?”. That can be over a long time span – for example, although other teams might *prefer* being able to make an urgent request with no planning and just get work from your team right away in the short term, the other support teams are constantly burned out and having their best people quit from last minute scrambles, while yours is more reliable & consistent. Or your intake form really does speed up your work, because your not constantly having to go back for clarification.
That said, I have definitely worked with teams that take this too far – who’s leadership is so caught up in “what makes MY team run smoothly” that they stop evaluating “what makes THE COMPANY run smoothly”. Execs & powerbrokers stop going to your team at all, or blame delays & problems on you; or build the capacity you’re supposed to provide within their own team so they don’t have to deal with the rigamarole. It doesn’t sound like this is happening in your description, so you’re probably still on the good side of “strict”, but those are the warning signs I’d be aware of.
I live where there is one dominant airline and it’s fine for domestic flights. But for stalking $$$ flights to Europe from airports up to two hours away, what is the best current way to search? Google flights and then book directly with airline? Kayak?
How do you stalk flights? Doesn’t that just make the flight more expensive across all platforms? (I hate everything to do with arbitrary pricing.)
I don’t even know. I haven’t done a big trip since COVID and used to live by DC, so I felt like I had many good options out of IAD and BWI and even sending a night in NYC. But not in my current city.
I have read before to clear your cache if you are going to search again, or use a different browser. Also, follow thepointsguy on FB or IG, as he regularly posts content on how to maximize the use of points to bring cost of flights down.
Google flights + direct booking is what I do. You can set an alert with Google to be notified about price changes.
+1
I notice that I get a different price if I’m checking on my wifi network at home versus using data on my phone (also at home). It’s infuriating, but whatever you need to do to find a cheaper flight…
which is cheaper?
I use Google Flights on incognito mode and then book directly with the airline. I don’t book flights using 3rd party b/c dealing with changes/cancellations can be a hassle.
Are there any sites for a good women’s fit concert tee? That is not Kardashian-fit but also not the hideous rectangles for actual concerts selling either to only teens or XL men? I’d like something cute but not scandalous. Actual tees from concerts are just boxy typical men’s sizes.
Are you looking for a specific band or performer? I think places like Snorg Tees or Red Bubble have women’s fit for t-shirts, but not sure if they specifically have concert tees.
Do you have a brand of t-shirt you particularly like? I used to love Bella Canvas shirts, but I have switched to loving Comfort Colors fit/weight.
If you have a type like that that you know you like, you can search on Etsy for the band + t-shirt type and often come up with what you’re looking for.
I’m 37, married with no kids, with a big job but still some time and flexibility to do other things (friends, hobbies). I was an MBB partner before this job, so that free time is pretty new to me. I don’t know what I’m asking here- life feels very overfull, and there’s a lot I feel like I’m focused on outside of work (e.g., getting good sleep, losing weight) and there’s also a lot more professional stuff I want to do and I want to spend more time on my hobbies and with my friends and I just feel so oversubscribed all the time. Which is weird because while I think that’s a pretty normal feeling, I don’t have kids and my parents are still in pretty good shape. I don’t know. I just feel over stretched and I’m not sure what to do about it, except do less. And that doesn’t work because there’s so much more than I want to do. Thoughts?
I’m early 30s and occasionally feel this way too! I have a lot of interests and places I want to travel to and friends I want to see and it’s hard to fit it all in!
I’m unhappy about being currently single and childless, so I combat that by leaning into all of the fun activities but there just isn’t enough time! Which leads to household management falling by the wayside because I am not living my best single life to fold laundry!!
Could have written this word for word. Commisserations!
I have always found my lifestyle changes take up far more time than anyone realizes. I tend to sleep 5-6 hours a night. I’d love to sleep 8 hours. I need to find 4 hours of my day to make that happen consistently.
You probably feel overwhelmed because you are trying to do too much all at once. Pick one thing and drive it until it’s an established habit. It will take a long time. For me it’s 6 months because I have kids. Only once your habit is established I would start the process of picking your next thing.
In the last 5 years I have made significant changes. I have established a fitness schedule 5 days a week, fixed my skin (I had adult acne), changed the family diet, got divorced and moved. My home now has organization I never had and I have a cleaning schedule. I listen to one podcast and read one book a month. I read the newspapers (FT, WSJ and NYT) daily. My next project is to build my career.
I know you don’t want to hear this but what you are doing isn’t working. You can’t do it all. No one can.
Thanks for your comments. I get that no one can do it all, and it’s kind of validating to hear that I’m not feeling this way because I’m somehow failing to be better. But how does one build a full life then, with hobbies, professional pursuits, friends? I think I already accept that there will be seasons, and for the next few months I won’t be doing X because I’m doing Y. Maybe I need to pare down more. I don’t know.
You don’t have to do all the things and meet all the goals at once. It’s okay to have a primary focus and do other things later.
Right now my focus is on family time, friend time, and fitness. Some of this is combined, like joining a running club with a friend. I have other goals for my life overall, but I am not working on them at all right now and I’m fine with that.
I can’t tell from your comment whether you want to do less or more. But I will say that I often think of the expression “life is long”, because you can’t do everything at once, but life goes through so many different phases. Pick a few things that you want to focus now and set the others aside. Reassess later.
A mantra I use when feeling like I’m overwhelmed with stuff and want to do more – “a change is as good as a rest.” It’s like exercise – if your legs are really tired you can still sit down and do an arm workout or something and your legs are getting rest, but you’re still exercising and being productive. The way to avoid burnout with a very full and busy life is to make sure you’ve got a healthy variety and you can healthily prioritize.
Think of a pie chart with three segments: work, family/friends, and personal (which includes fitness, weight, hobbies). Your work segment has gotten smaller. Which other segment do you most want to add to? The answer is a question of priorities and values. Your mind is always going to come up with more ideas than you can ever execute. That’s a good thing, except when it leaves you feeling like you can never do enough. You can and you already are. Make a list of your ideas and decide which ones you want to ripen into goals. Prioritize those. Think about what would make you happiest to have accomplished in 6 months, a year, five years. Let the other ideas go or set them aside for later. You’ve written them down so they will be there for you if and when it’s time to re-prioritize. Re-think and re-prioritize when the segments of your pie chart become unbalanced.
I need advice.
I snore. I’ve been diagnosed a couple of times with mild sleep apnea. Think – mild is between 8 – 15 and I got a 9 (I can’t remember the numbers, but that was the idea).
I’ve tried a CPAP and whatever the other one was and just fought it all night and couldn’t deal. I use mouth tape but it isn’t perfect and comes off during the night; also, I was wearing mouth tape when I had my home sleep study.
Another of my concerns for a CPAP is having the indentations on my face. I have a very public facing job.
I’ve just ordered the nasal bongos and really hoping they help but I’ve tried so many things that I’m not optimistic.
I’ve also tried a mouthpiece made by a specialist dentist.
Thoughts?
I use the bongo and have for several years now. It alleviates my sleep apnea, but if it slips around, I still snore.
I am religious about replacing the head strap quarterly. It’s elastic, so it stretches out and allows the device to move around more.
I have a special shaped pillow for side sleeping (back sleeping is my trigger). Have you looked into a cuirass device? I am not sure if they use those for obstructive apnea or more for central, but they don’t get anywhere near the face. Since you are concerned about indentations, do you have any inflammation that could be a factor?
Do you still have the CPAP machine? If you can get the hose to be higher coming down to your face, that is best. Out of the way.
Go back to your sleep doctor and ask to try out new equipment – a different mask and headgear.
Take a shower and wash your face in the morning. No indentations.
Also, I think you’re using “CPAP” generically? Right? Maybe you need or have an A-PAP machine that adjusts automatically? Check with your doctor about that
Then see what other options are like those implanted devices.
My husband uses the mouth guard Joe Rogan advertises. He gets it from Amazon and replaces it every few months. It 100% works. It’s cheap but effective. He has never had a sleep study done, but his snoring was so bad that I would frequently go sleep in another room. I suspected SA because it would sound like he would stop breathing sometimes. He also had sinus surgery years ago to correct, among other things, a wildly deviated septum. It helped his breathing, but he still snored. He sleeps much better with the mouth guard, and so do I.
I think you should try different styles and sizes of headgear for your CPAP. I don’t have any indents. I also stopped needing a chin strap or mouth tape after a few weeks because I got used to it.
Are you a candidate for the Inspire implant?
Has anyone used and AI app to create a headshot? I am being stalked on Insta by Aragon AI which says to just upload a selfie and it will give you a fancy, flattering, and professional headshot. I’m kind of worried it may be a scam and once they have your image they can steal your identity or something. Am I being paranoid? TIA.
Nope this sounds like a terrible idea
Yes and no? I think it’s pretty well documented that a lot of these apps use your photos for other purposes like machine learning for face recognition software, etc., but I don’t think they’re going to be breaking into your bank accounts with them? Although who knows how the pictures can be used in the future once you give permission as you basically give up that control. I find that enough of a reason to stay away and generally feel like if you’re getting something for free, you’re just not seeing the price. But enough people use all sorts of apps these days to try on hair cuts or face tune, etc., that it may not matter to them to add one more. Maybe search for that particular app to see if it’s especially nefarious but otherwise I think it’s just what you’re comfortable with.
Yes and they are comically bad. Figured it was worth a try but I’d never actually use it.
We got fairly professional shots using an iPhone (with someone else taking the photo) and using Lightroom (photoshop lite for iPhones) to clean up the photo. It’s not that hard.
FWIW, Lightroom isn’t photoshop lite, it’s what professional photographers use instead because it’s geared toward editing photos.
I used an app to do a selfie color season analysis on myself. It was the best experience. I did it in a few difference types of light and locations and it consistently gave me the same result.
Then the app allows you scan your clothes to see what matches your coloring best. So many things in my close were only a 20% match or less. It was really eye-opening. I put 85% or better in one pile and 50% or less in another and tried everything on. Once you see it you can’t unsee how unflattering the under 50%s were. They were the sludge in my wardrobe. Fine but I never reached for them first.
This lead to a big closet clean out. Now I have fewer things that form a cohesive and flattering wardrobe. Just wanted to share because there were some threads recently about how to clean out a closet and color it turns out is a really good basis for a clean out.
What app was this?
Dressika app!
This sounds amazing! Do you mind sharing what app you used? Thank you!!
I am nearly through with a similar process (no app involved) myself. Opening my closet is so much nicer now. I see things I like, that go well together, that make me feel good.
I weeded out anything that I plain old did not like and colors that don’t fit my mood board. Those I am getting rid of (posting on Poshmark first, will consign after a few weeks, then donate whatever is left).
I have some things that are flattering colors, but that don’t currently fit. Those I am trying to evaluate how far out from fitting they are – one size? Keep, but only if they are in impeccable condition. More than one size? I can buy a current version if I am that size again.
What app did you use, if you don’t mind?
Just wondering to the OP what season you are?
One mistake I keep making is that I will see an ivory or cream look great on a black model and order it because we are both winters and it looks great on the model. It took a while to realize that it didn’t suit me because the contrast was all wrong on rosacea-inflicted me and to not wear those colors near my face (but they’d still work well in outfits).
Not OP but sharing in case helpful to you.
I’ve long been a fan of creamy winter whites, but realized looking at photos of myself that crisp, bright white compliments my skin tone so much better. I am a pale, freckled deep winter with mild rosacea.
Falling skiers and outdoorsy winter types – favorite full-zip mid-layers for downhill skiing these days? My favorite Black Diamond hoody is showing its age and I would like something a little looser in the arms next time around – this one starts getting ever so slightly too tight whenever I need to wear my warmest base layer. Price isn’t that important (I keep my gear for literal decades), but arm comfort is!
As a true “falling skier”, I do not invest in downhill skiing gear or attire. But hopefully others have ideas.
Patagonia R1
Since fit is so personal, I’d honestly grab your base layers + shell and head to REI to try a zillion on
That said, my current favorite mid is a plain microgrid hoodie (which pretty much all major manufacturers & many cottage ones offer these days – mine is no zip but I’m sure there’s something full zip out there) – there’s a lot of new, more breathable & more stretchable fleece fabrics these days.
I love my R1 but it’s noticeably less stretchy (but the outer layer is more windproof, so it’s a more versatile stand-alone layer – but not necessary for a skiing mid)
I found out on Friday that I’m getting a 4% COL adjustment. I’m moving into 6 figures for the first time. I really never expected that I would earn that much.
Congrats!!!
Way to go!
Congrats!
This is huge! Congratulations!
Congratulations!! May you continue to have success.
You’re amazing!
I’m surprised there’s a post today, given the holiday… but I won’t complain – I actually get to read the posts while they’re live today
She never used to post on minor holidays and then people complained a bunch “we’re not off” etc. I think this is a response to the complaints.
Ain’t a holiday in NC for schools or many businesses.
i didnt even know it was a holiday. i have work, my kids have school
My hot take is if a workplace doesn’t offer the federal holidays, I am not interested in working there.
My workplace gives me 22 vacation days and 11 holidays and 2 weeks at Christmas off. I don’t care about colombus day
We don’t get Columbus Day or Veterans’ Day, but instead get the day after Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve instead, which are much more useful (though I’d take both…)
Same – I’d love to have both, but today and Veteran’s Day are not as practical as the days around the holidays.
I am off today and the weather is absolutely atrocious, so my original plans are scrapped. I feel like I’m at a bit of a crossroads in my life and want to spend some time seriously thinking about what I want and how I can achieve that. If my life isn’t turning out how I thought it would (husband, house, kids), I want to make sure I”m intentional about creating a life I love. I do fully believe that life is what you make it – not something that happens to you.
Does anyone have some questions or planning tools that they’ve used for something like this? Any tips on this?
A fresh hair cut, a closet clear out, and new shoes.
This sounds ridiculous, but there’s a thought process involved in deciding the hair, and how you want to look. Same with the closet clear out, and same with the new shoes. Figuring out how you look (your costume, if you will) transitions into thinking about the life you want and are aiming for. It’s just an easier step to start with.
I’ve enjoyed the Passion Planner materials. They’re around paper calendars and schedules but they have a lot available online and they’re generous with samples. Good luck!! You sound awesome and inspiring!!
Get a dog. It is the secret to a good life. No apps needed.
I love dogs and cats, but I live in a no-pet apartment
… this is not what she asked for. I presume if she wanted a pet she’d get one, but not everyone loves dogs and plenty of people who love dogs don’t have lives that can accomodate them!
+1 and also dogs can be a pretty big burden if you want to travel a lot or pick up a hobby that keeps you out of the house a lot, which she may be interested in.
…her general complaint was open ended (dot dot dot)
Get a dog and join a choir.
Someone shared the free online Year Compass planner here at the start of the year. I’m not typically the vision board type, but it was a nice way to get my thoughts on paper and start planning. It’s free!
I was just going to recommend that – I also tried it when it was recommended here back in 2020. I’ve found it to be genuinely helpful and have done it annually since then.
Designing your life by the Stanford d school guys
I make a small pot of coffee in a typical no frills coffee machine almost every morning, but I’m reading about how hot water and the plastic components mean that I’m probably ingesting microplastics. Does anyone have a coffee maker that has a non-plastic basket? Does that even exist? I think a fresh press is the alternative but it seems like more work. Thanks.
We use a Chemex for that reason and also because it makes great coffee. One of my rules of thumb is that for things I use every single day of my life, it’s best to try to avoid microplastics to the extent possible. I drink organic coffee at home for the same reason – coffee is typically grown in countries that still use pesticides long banned by the U.S. I love an easy switch like that and I can’t complain about the price when I consider how much else I waste money on!
I use a stainless steel pour over and brew straight into my china mug. No plastic involved, and it works even if the power goes out.
French press or pour-over is going to be your best bet here. You could also try switching to cold brew if you don’t mind having it cold!
Nespresso shoots water through their metal pods, I suppose it goes through a plastic part to get there though but I’m not especially concerned about this.
I have been using a French Press for years and I don’t think it’s a lot more hard work at all. You grind coffee, pour hot water over it, let sit for 2 min and use the plunger to push the grinds down. You don’t have to even grind coffee if you don’t want to. Preground is totally fine. The main downside of the French press for me is that you can’t just leave to stay warm for a while but oth drip coffee also doesn’t have a super long shelf life and will taste burnt after a point, too. I just pour my FP into a big thermos cup when I know I want coffee for a long morning.
+1, French press is very little effort.
I hate cleaning a french press so much. I find that I just won’t do it.
If you are concerned about micro plastics, you may also want to research other concerns about effects on the heart from French press (unfiltered) preparation.
I saw a camping instagram reel where they used a hair tie to connect a filter to a stanley and just put the coffee in and poured hot water into the filter, directly into the stanley (so like a chemex, without having to clean the chemex.) I haven’t done it yet, but I’m planning to.
I worried about this for like a day and then kept using my coffee pot. Coffee is full of antioxidants, and really, you don’t have to be perfect to be healthy.
Put a filter in the basket? That helps with the cholesterol issues caused by unfiltered coffee, and maybe it blocks some of the microplastics?
It’s not really my field, but I participated in a small seminar about microplastics and cancer, and one big issue is that pretty much all the data we have on microplastics and human health comes from studies where the microplastics are present in mixtures of other really bad things – so, we’re studying people who are also exposed to other nasty chemicals and whatnot, that the average person would not be exposed to regularly. And I don’t know that we have data on whether the microplastics are actually bioavailable to do much to us. Apparently there are studies in human cells in culture, and animals, but I would be careful extrapolating too much from those.
So, sure, use glass or metal instead of plastic where possible, but I don’t think I’d worry about every possible exposure.
I’m a little skeptical that I’m getting microplastics from the basket at a proper brewing temperature, but I use a pour over cone which can be made of anything. I do try to avoid tea bags which are worse types of plastic exposed to higher temps.
I don’t like heating water in plastic though so I do have a stainless kettle for heating up the water.
French press coffee bothers my stomach so that is not the answer for me.
My mother gave me a lot of her clothes as she changed sizes over the years. I have an LLBean wool plaid skirt that is fully lined and has pockets. It would be perfect in my casual office with boots and a sweater. It is a 12 but from so long ago that it fits like a 6 today (I am a curvy 8). I was such an optimist when I got it out of the box.
Ha! This is a lesson I learned during my earlier poshmark searches. Still worth keeping though!
Yall. What compels a person to bring a four year old to a classical concert? It was Friday night and I’m still astounded. They sat in the middle of the row and the tike had to go potty 3 times, meaning all the “excuse me’s” and shuffling of people. The child’s whisper was loud enough to be heard for rows in every direction. Of course the child couldn’t pay attention the whole time, so silent games of pattycake and other distractions were employed.
Let’s say Uncle Matty was playing and the child was there to see him. She’ll never remember the evening! But all the adults surrounding the child will remember the disruptions throughout the evening.
The child was well-behaved for a four year old, but four year olds still don’t belong at classical concerts.
we went to see the Lehman Trilogy in the city where i live, which is 3.5 hours long with two intermissions and there was an older elementary schooler there. she was decently behaved, but the play didn’t end until almost 11 and i cant imagine she found it interesting. i will say, the only reason i can think of bringing a 4 year old to a concert like that is bc someone very special to them was performing. do i still think it is appropriate – nope
People bring their children places because the parents will remember it and the kids will enjoy it. Sure, rubbing along with the rest of humanity gets annoying at times but it’s best to let it go.
A 4 year old is not going to get anything out of a classical music concert, and I don’t see how that could be a special memory for the parents either. They either spend the entire time ignoring the kid and listening to the music or they spend the entire time worrying every time the kid fidgets or sighs that they’re disrupting other people. Neither is exactly a core family memory.
But they don’t remember anything. And yet we take them to museums and the beach and teach them to swim and use cutlery correctly. Write them off until they are 10? 15?
Kids museums and beaches are much more appropriate venues for noisy kids who can’t sit still.
Of course you don’t “write them off” until they’re 15 and no one is suggesting you do, but you have to make sure the venue is appropriate for the age of your kids. There are places where toddlers really don’t belong and even some places where elementary school kids don’t belong. It doesn’t do any favors to your kids to drag them to venues inappropriate for their age where they’re 1) noted out of their mind and 2) annoying others with age appropriate behavior. It’s a disservice to everyone!
*bored out of their mind, that should say
Not all kids are noisy and have problems sitting still.
99.9% of 3 year olds are noisy and can’t sit still for hours… as they should be! It’s very developmentally appropriate behavior at that age. But it means you should take them to places that are appropriate for 3 year olds. Not late night classical music concerts.
A 4-year-old’s brain still goes through the experience of hearing the music and seeing the musicians. Memory isn’t everything.
But why do they need to do it so young? The musicians will be there when the child is age 6, 7, 8, etc. and better able to appreciate the experience (and remember it – although I agree memory isn’t everything). Unless your child has a terminal illness (in which case, do whatever you want, and I can’t imagine anyone who knows your circumstances judging you) why is there such a rush? When I look back at my kids’ babyhoods and toddlerhoods I wish I’d done less rushing of them into “big kid” experiences, not more. They already grow up too fast as it is.
I don’t really remember it, but my mom LOVES telling the story of my first time seeing Swan lake at three years old, dancing along in the dark stairs in the theater, and dancing for weeks after. I definitely got something out of it!
99.9% of 3 year olds are noisy and can’t sit still for hours… as they should be! It’s very developmentally appropriate behavior at that age. But it means you should take them to places that are appropriate for 3 year olds. Not late night classical music concerts.
I was that kid and it was because family members were performing. Is it ideal, no. But, when you don’t have reliable babysitters, it meant my mom got to see the show. So don’t judge too much, and there are so many worse places you could take a four year old. And honestly, as an adult, I find sniffles and coughs much more distracting than a small child.
And the rustling of wrappers. Barring health circumstances, do we have to munch through the whole production?
There’s a poster on the moms page who regularly advocates for bringing 3-4 year olds to things like symphonies, Broadway musicals and ballets, and I side eye it so much (and not like a one time emergency “babysitter got the stomach flu and family can’t miss their older child’s performance in the community Nutcracker” kind of thing – she’s suggesting doing it on a regular basis with professional productions). There’s zero reason not to wait a couple years for the sake of both the kid and the other patrons – and I say that as someone who really loves taking my kids to arts things and has brought them to all kinds of performances from a relatively young age.
I started going to classical musical concerts as a 3 or 4 year old and I absolutely remember them. Admittedly, these were more of the afternoon Peter and the Wolf variety and were full of children, but I went to regular concerts in early elementary school and was perfectly capable of sitting quietly.
This particular child probably shouldn’t have been at this particular event, but I really take issue with the idea that kids aren’t capable of enjoying classical music or remembering anything notable.
I take issue with the idea that kids belong in all spaces. An evening classical music concert should probably be adults only or at least 14+.
My kid plays violin and started at 10. But I swear we see kids with 1/8 sized violins who I’m not sure are even potty trained. If they can learn Suzuki, maybe there are kids who really love it much earlier. 10 was right for us for concerts and going through a recital where you listen more than you play.
If you want to control who the other attendees at a show (or on a plane or whatever) are, buy all the tickets and distribute them as you see fit.
+1.
this is a very extreme take.
i also went as a 3 and 4 year old, but it was to the kids programming at Lincoln Center – not to see a full length concert. there is a big difference between a 3 or 4 year old and an early elementary schooler
Agreed that 3/4 and 6/7 year olds are worlds apart even though it’s only a couple of years.
For me, I think the middle ground is to absolutely bring children, but to select seats that allow for minimal disruption of those around you. Pick an aisle seat first of all, and preferably an outer aisle near a door. Kids absolutely belong at the symphony, the opera, the theatre, and what ever art we want to see in the future. I say this as a child free person.
+1. Agree. Those of you without kids by choice are entitled to a child-free home life but not a child-free world.
+2 from the horrible moms’ page poster who brought her 3-year-old to the ballet and the symphony. Where exactly do you think musicians come from? Just teach your kids to behave and make sure you know their limits.
My collaborative pianist got all excited when I handed her the score of a Copland piece that we were going to perform. Turns out it’s been her favorite piece since she saw the opera The Tender Land at age 4. Kids remember and are inspired from the earliest ages.
+1 – my spouse is a symphony musician and you will often see our kids or the kids of other musicians at concerts, but we take them to the very top row of the balcony and sit in aisle seats until they’re old enough to sit through a whole half without needing to move around.
Also since this comes up every once in a while: no one cares what you wear to the symphony. Jeans are fine. Ballgowns are fine. Most people will be somewhere in between but the musicians really, truly, don’t care (if they even notice as they’re rushing in and out). They’re just happy you’re there. Do try to remember to silence your cell phone but if you forget and it goes off at a funny time it gives us something to talk about during after-concert drinks.
100% and the most hinged take here.
I have very vivid memories of events and activities I attended at 3 and 4 years old. You sound like a peach, and hopefully that 4 year old remembers the concert rather than the curmudgeon.
Honestly, enough of the adults have problematic behavior at concerts to routinely be awful to be next to. I’m sure it’s also the same adults who use sound on long flights. When churches sound like rock bands, maybe we have lost the ability to do things quietly?
I brought my kid starting at age 3. She didn’t make a peep. It’s about behavior, not age.
Maybe one in a thousand 3 year olds are appropriately behaved enough for a full scale production vs a shorter children’s show. That’s not a criticism of the kid – sitting in silence for 2.5-3 hours is just such a developmentally inappropriate expectation at that age. Three year olds are barely out of toddlerhood — they’re meant to be running around and making noise, not sitting for hours on end without moving or making a peep. It would actually kind of concern me if my 3 year old could do that.
And in my experience the moms who think their kids are the 1 in 1,000 are always wrong.
Whether three year old kids make a lot of noise is really cultural in my experience, though the cultures that don’t really set expectations for young kids think they’re the only ones who are right. Moving I think is less so (honestly sitting still for 2.5-3 hrs is not recommended for adults either).
I am a classical musician who routinely performs with a professional symphony orchestra. The kids are always quiet as mice, because no one brings a poorly behaved child to a concert. The old people who talk, rustle around, crinkle cough drop wrappers, clear their throats, cough, and clap between movements are the problem. As are the adults who arrive late. We almost always have to hold the downbeat because many people are still being seated, and then there are inevitably people seated after we start.
My all-time favorite rude audience member was the old guy in the balcony who yelled “BRAVO!!!” in the rest before the final “Hallelujah” of the Hallelujah Chorus. At least it was during a holiday pops concert and not a full Messiah.
Some people are disabled their whole lives. Should they never get to hear a classical concert? Who else doesn’t belong at classical concerts based on how often they need restrooms or care taking?
To me this sounds like a problem with a venue that wasn’t designed to be inclusive of different needs.
The problem isn’t that four-year-olds don’t belong at classical concerts. The problem is that the parents of this particular four-year-old didn’t book the right seats and/or expected more from the child than that individual child was capable of.
The rule should be that only people who can sit still and be quiet should attend the symphony. This would permit many children to attend, and exclude many adults.
Boot talk! I am looking for two pairs of boots under $200… one in a flat Chelsea or similar style, and one knee-high pair with a bit of a heel but still comfortable for a bit of walking and not western style. I don’t like the feel of blundstones. Bonus for nonslip/rubberized soles. Do you have boots that fit this profile and do you recommend? Thanks!
Try Sam Edelman, Dolce Vita or Marc Fisher. Lots of mid price styles that are reasonable quality at that price point.
Nisolo may be a brand you’d like and the quality is great for the price.
Fluevog has what you want.
I need a pair of black work pants, full length to wear with boots and keep my ankles warm, appropriate to wear with a jacket and just-shy-of-a-suit formal. What would you recommend as current but not so flowy they look like PJs?
Spanx perfect pants in wide leg.
Job A or Job B:
A: I currently WFH in a dysfunctional corporate environment making 200K all in. My workaholic boss does things like refer to senior women in our org as “little sisters” in private conversations, suspects everyone of stealing from the company (“no more lunchtime pilates class for X!”, “I bet this wasn’t stolen and he just took it himself!), and brags about the little time he took off work for death of a parent. Not to mention he conveniently forgets when bad direction he issues backfires and immediately finds someone else, often me, to blame, and takes credit for every small crumb of success we have in this really difficult environment. I recently heard him aggressively say no one is going to tank his retirement from this company (5 years left). Honestly, my only hope has been that they will ask him to leave but I can see now that he’s survived this long by constantly twisting facts and throwing people under the bus. I lead 7 teams and 3 of the managers are on the brink of quitting daily. I am emotionally exhausted. Trying to be a good leader and manager, I have tried to communicate to boss that this way of doing things is burning people out and we’re not achieving goals, and maybe just let me put together program rollout plans but to no avail, he wants everything done right now, with his plan, no matter how uniformed the plan and sloppy the result. What I am getting is one more admin headcount to manage this chaos. I work 9-10 hours per day, but am never caught up and think about work constantly. I pull a near-all-nighter about once every two weeks and work at least some every weekend. I am sure the admin would help with this but could be months away, and doesn’t fix boss.
B: I am being offered an onsite job at a small local business as a general manager. It pays about 110K all in. I know the staff personally and like them. It’s an 8.5 hour/day gig, no direct reports. Some participation in community events is expected (not sure yet if this is on a volunteer or paid basis).
WWYD? Stay in A or take B? I have two kids and a husband with a busy job. We’ve been running on fumes since this new boss took over (I handled all of life admin and the majority of logistics prior to this and after dumping half of it on DH, we’re equally dead day in and day out). My household can make the budget work, we just wouldn’t be saving almost anything. Our emergency fund is about 5 months. DH job has been safe so far but the industry is rife with layoffs. We would not be able to support the household on job B income alone. What are some other considerations? College is 7 years away.
I have been searching within my industry for over a year. I have a lot of contacts and have spoken with many people, but no dice and the market is getting worse by the minute. I probably need to go back to school for a graduate degree to get the same job I have now in a different org (currently have AA and BS) but that’s a laughable proposition with the current stress level.
It seems insane to me to take Job B. In general I think you need a very good reason for a major pay cut like that and 1) not being able to save anything (!!) and 2) not being able to support your household when DH is in an industry “rife with layoffs” both seem like pretty huge red flags.
Same. Disengage emotionally from A and keep looking. A is getting a lot of rent free space in your head. Collect the paycheck while you look, nothing is worth a 50% pay cut when your H’s job is precarious. Sometimes we have to deal with things we don’t like because reality.
Stay and check out mentally. Grey rock method as much as possible with your boss. Be firm about your hours. Worst they can do is fire you, and you’d get unemployment at a higher rate.
Keep job hunting. A 50% pay cut is insane given your kids ages, and it is harder than you think to work your way back up to a higher salary.
i realize it is easier said than done, but it is ultimately your choice whether or not you think about work constantly. stop pulling all nighters. what industry are you in? what would happen if you didn’t pull an all nighter? given that it is october, i say check out mentally, perhaps give yourself a brief break from actively searching as it is mid october and a lot of hiring slows towards the holidays. figure out a good routine and way to set boundaries and renew the search in the new year.
To get a good job, you often have to turn one down before you land one with the right fit. I would be tempted to take this job too, but can you keep looking instead? Once you change jobs, the excitement/relief will fade and you will have to live with the reality of the pay difference. Maybe that’s ok? What does your spouse think?
With a 90k pay difference, can you dedicate half of that to outsourcing life admin and half of that to savings, and still come out ahead (financially) to the 110k job?
I took Job B except that it paid slightly more than Job A. It derailed my entire career.
Wait, tell me more?
Voice of partial dissent here. I think it depends on whether you can actually disengage at job A. I had a very toxic work situation with a boss that was insane and it was impossible no matter how much I tried. He would call me 45 times in a row if I didn’t pick up the phone immediately, gaslight constantly, send 30 emails with contradictory instructions at 3 am, do ethically borderline things in front of me that put me in v. difficult situations, talk about colleagues in ways that were very highly problematic to say the least… I eventually left for a much better job but regret staying as long as I did because I feel like my family/personal life and health both suffered. It was hard for me to see this in the moment because I always prided myself on not minding stress and high pressure situations so I thought this was all manageable but he was like a psychic vampire; I feel like stress you control and take on is not the same as stress from an genuinely toxic unwell personnel, especially when it is wholly unnecessary for the job that needs to be done. I currently have a stressful job by many metrics but I love it because I am in control of the stress I need to deal with. If I could go back in time I would tell myself to leave much sooner.
This internet stranger is giving you permission, if you want to take Job B, take it. I took a large pay cut in exchange for a job that doesn’t wake me up at 3am stressed about work, with zero regrets three years on. Yeah, less money sucks, but being able to be fully present in my life outside of working hours is completely worth it. Plus, who knows, with more bandwidth, you might find something else.
I also took a large pay cut for a less stressful job and agree it was completely worth it even though we had to cut out some luxuries. But it sounds like OP’s financial situation is not about cutting back on fun spending and would become really precarious, if she can’t save and would be basically living paycheck to paycheck. That situation is its own kind of stress and I don’t think removing the the job stress would be worth that added financial stress.
The line for me is if living on the income of job B would add more stress than staying in job A. Like, are we taking “sell a car, no vacations, no daycare until spouse gets a job” or are we taking “possibly lose the house and food insecurity”. If it’s the first one, I’d take job B. If it’s the second I would not.
Take Job C: a job you haven’t identified yet. In your shoes, I would definitely plan to leave Job A, but leave well.
My last workplace became a disorganized mess. I emotionally disconnected and job searched. I ended landing a fully remote role that pays better! I’m glad I didn’t end up taking the first opportunity that came to me, which would not have been a good long term fit.
has anyone opened a donor-advised fund with a small amount of money, like $5k? thinking about it as a way to save on capital gains taxes with some stocks that are up like 1000%+
My family and I are supposed to visit my hometown next week and stay with my sister. While my sister and I are pretty close, we’ve had some tension lately that culminated in a minor “fight” (fight is too strong of a word, but I don’t know what else to call it) last week. I told her to let me know when she was ready to talk and haven’t heard anything from her. Unfortunately, there’s a lot going on next weekend and hotels/Airbnbs are completely booked so it’s not easy to pivot to different accommodations.
Should I text and ask if she’s still cool with us staying with her? If so, do I give her a few more days to cool down? I don’t feel like I need to apologize for the “fight” and I assume she feels she doesn’t either and this is the longest we’ve gone without talking in a very long time.
does someone need to apologize or is it the sort of fight that you can both just move past? i assume from your post that you two are very close. could you write something like, “I love you and I hope we can both just move past our disagreement by agreeing to disagree. We are expecting to still see you next week but if you don’t want us to stay please let me know.”
Next weekend, like the 18th-19th? I would text now. If it’s the weekend of the 25th you can give her a few more days to cool down.
Where do we find men’s clothes that are extra soft? I’m looking for something like Loft’s Lou and Grey line but for men – very soft but not super expensive. I’m trying to buy something for my boyfriend that’s a step above his usual Target comfy clothes.