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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m loving the soft floral print on this Vince sweater. The sweater is a bit sheer, so I’d probably layer an ivory or nude-for-me tee underneath, but I think it would look lovely under a navy suit or paired with some darker gray trousers.
The sweater is $345 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 1X–3X.
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Anonymous
For anyone following the Ana Walshe story.. how sad for her and the children. I’m not surprised the husband was taken into custody yesterday. Side note: why is it always the husband/sig other??
Anonymous
Misogyny?
As Margaret Atwood said – men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them. All too often those men are not strangers.
Anon
I think it’s going to get even more wild.
From everything I have read, she didn’t have a flight booked on the first (she kept her flights for the third) and there was no work emergency. I bet the husband was like – “I’ll tell people she disappeared into a ride share and no one will look at me” and that isn’t the case.
Wondering what’s up with the fire at her old house, too.
Anonymous
Way, way too close to home. I live in Hingham.
anon
Cohasset. here. It’s bananas. All of it. So sad for the kids, above all else.
Anon
Boston here! Surprised this case is getting national attention. Seems like another case of missing (wealthy) white woman syndrome. It’s horrible, and we need justice for her of course. Women of color likewise need the same media coverage.
ADA
This. MA homicide prosecutor here. None of my cases with victims of color in the same state get this level of attention.
Anon
Homicide prosecutor in a major NE city here. Same experience as the MA ADA — the media does not care about the victims unless they are white and preferably rich/successful.
ArenKay
I had not heard of this case, but the answer to your question is misogyny. Kate Manne’s book Down Girl is illuminating (and depressing).
Anonymous
I’m local to one of her homes so I’ve been following raptly. I’m not yet convinced that they haven’t gone off together. She closed on a flip in Baltimore two days before she disappeared per her instagram, and she was somewhat involved, although not charged?, in her husband’s art forgery case. She also seemed to travel an awful lot in 2022 in foreign locales despite it being a new job with Tishman.
Anon
A blood and knife were found in the basement of their home and the husband purchased $450 in cleaning supplies:
https://mobile.twitter.com/karenreports/status/1612477995377168385
Anonymous
Oh, I haven’t gotten updated this morning.
Anonymous
??? You think they are in it together ? What nonsense. He didn’t report her missing until her employer did, he spent 450 at Home Depot on tarps and tape , and they found her blood in the basement. She was successful, well liked. I’m sure he was emasculated and he is an absolute piece of you know what and now three young boys will grow up motherless
Anon
Aimee serious anti-immigrant vibes from Anonymous at 10:51. (Cohasset is a very wealthy town, about 94% white, and Ana Walshe is an immigrant from Serbia.)
Anonymous
Huh. Not at all. she was named as part of a major art fraud case that is sending her husband to jail for almost 50 years, and if you read about the family background, there’s some other unsavory stuff involving his father’s will, and very expensive car purchases for her. That’s why I made the comment.
Anon
Aren’t Serbians white?
Cat
Chilling but I did hear a quote a few months ago that stuck with me – the person most likely to kill you is the person you marry, statistically speaking.
Anon
Yes that’s true. And you don’t even have to be married. The person you’re romantically involved with is most likely to kill you, if you’re a woman.
Anon
Yes this is true
Anon
Homicide is the top cause of death of pregnant women.
Under the weather
Brightside: went to a small destination wedding for sister in law over the weekend, and had a nice time. Flew Southwest without any issues.
Not so brightside: bride was sick the day of so I tried to keep my distance however now I am sick too with a cold :( Certainly could have picked something up on the plane, etc.
Time for alllll the things (tea, vitamins, etc!) Happy Monday!
pugsnbourbon
And spicy soup! I like to get pho as hot as I can stand it.
Vicky Austin
+1 – pretty sure I’d still be sniffling if I hadn’t done this last week.
Anon
Looking for mobile hairdresser/haircut for elderly mother at home in South Central Pennsylvania area. Please recommend any or let me know how you found one in your area. Many thanks!!!!
Anonymous
Call around local. It’s often side work vs a fully mobile service. So a stop on the way to their full-time salon gig.
Anon
Your best bet is probably to ask their local area group on FB.
Anon
This – people on my town fb group love to share these kind of recs.
Anon
Can you be more specific about area? I live in what I would consider south central PA, but York is a very different area than Harrisburg.
Other suggestions are good. Also try posting on NextDoor using her address to get an account.
Anon
Thx….it is Carlisle. appreciate any recommendations
crash
Does your mother already have a local hairdresser that she likes?
My father did. His hairdresser worked in the downtown area where he lived. Haircuts for men tended to be quite cheap, so we just called her and asked if some day she could stop by his house on her way to or from work to cut his hair, and paid her $50. She choose the day/convenient time. My Dad loved it because he knew her pretty well. She usually brought her scissors, and just got a little water from the sink in a cup.
Many cities of decent size have a government office for senior services. You can call them in case they have social workers they work with, as these folks know about the mobile haircutters. Also, you can call some of the big Assisted living facilities in your area. They sometimes have haircutters on site who will travel, or know of people.
Cat
If your mom has worked with her current person for a long time, they might be willing to come to her for slightly more money.
Annony
I know several stylists who used to volunteer at retirement communities to style residents’ hair. You could try calling them and seeing if they could refer someone.
Cora
What are good hobbies or classes or groups to meet men in? I’m not doing anything just for that, but it’s a good consideration. I know sports is probably best but I’m just not sporty. Activities are really coming back in my city so it seems like a good time to ask – I joined a book club that really does meet regularly so that’s been good, but it’s very female dominated.
Ribena
I’m not super sporty but I joined a running club at the weekend and I loved it – it is incredibly casual, and the main social part of it is that no matter which route you take (I am very very slow so I ran 2 miles while everyone else did 3) we then spent half an hour in a coffee shop getting to know each other. Of the 11 people there were maybe 3 women?
At the same time I’m going back to ballet classes this week, which I expect to be less fruitful for meeting men!
Emma
There are two guys who regularly attend my ballet class! I can’t speak to their orientation, however, and would not recommend ballet as a way to meet straight eligible men. OP, have you considered local politics? I met a lot of cool people doing that, and know a few relationships that came out of it. Even if it doesn’t lead to anything you are doing something for society, although I know local committee can vary drastically in terms of vibe.
Anon
+ running clubs or cycling clubs/rides
Anon
Would you be into rock climbing? I know it’s sporty but it’s a different kind of sporty than playing organized sports. I found it easy to meet people at the local rock gym.
You could try become a regular at something like bar trivia. It’s a setting where you can eventually get to know the other teams in the bar. Even if you don’t meet any men, it’s a nice weekly hang with friends.
Anon
I love indoor rock climbing! It’s also very social because you take breaks. I would try to join a club or do meet ups. I’m actually bringing my bf and a friend and his bf to climbing this Saturday. A friend also invited me to join a casual volleyball game.
If you don’t like sports I would try to go to certain bars that would attract single men, trivia, and join group activities like hiking, kayaking, etc. If you don’t need a man you’re interested you could always meet other women who may have friends you’d be interested in. I think just expanding your social circle helps.
Anon
Just commenting that when I see what are obviously Meet Up hiking groups, they are easily 80% women. Also, on a regular basis, I see more women than men on the trails (maybe 60–65%).
Anon
I have been to climbing Meetup’s and there’s a good mix. I guess it all depends.
Duckles
Lol-ing at this bc it was not a consideration for me when I took up the sport but I did meet my BF rock climbing. Also went on a internet date with no chemistry but got a bar trivia partner out of it 😹
Duckles
The only other non-internet place a friend met their BF was at the dog park fwiw
Anon
I am an assistant scoutmaster and the odds are ever in my favor. But I am pretty old and so are the men — lots of 40s and 50s dads. I love hiking and am trying backpacking. REI has a lot of NOLS classes and I am often one of just a few women in them. If you aren’t outdoorsy, there is a big curling scene in my city that is co-Ed and very fun.
anon
How old are you?
Cora
Late 20s, major city.
Trivia definitely seems like a good fit – I’ve always gone with groups though.
I’ll look into local politics things.
Are there any exercise classes that would be good for this? Martial arts? Just trying to brainstorm.
pugsnbourbon
Check out weightlifting gyms in the area – see if there are any with a good vibe.
Anonymous
+1 to reputable weightlifting gyms. So you could definitely try MMA, but I would tread carefully. My husband and son do MMA and IMHO a lot of those guys are… a bit unhinged, to put it charitably. Even my husband, who is ex military and rolls with them, says a lot of them seem mentally unstable. Also maybe look into becoming a beer judge. I thought it was fun (didn’t make all the way through the course) and isn’t about binge drinking. You could also try breweries, if you like beer at all.
Cora
Oh I love the brewery idea! And good flag about MMA tbh
Hi
Going from “not sporty” to MMA seems like a big jump lmao
Cora
Ha its not “not sporty” as in “not athletic”, more I don’t want to regularly run or play volleyball or soccer.
Anon
Boxing gyms are great for this. Bonus is that you can screen out the dudes who are intimidated by strong women (not “string women”, which my iPhone seems to think is a thing).
Anonymous
Trail running, rock climbing, skiing (either cross country or downhill), kayaking courses, rowing (beginner course I did this summer was about half male). This list is making me realize I tend sporty with new activities. Maybe cooking classes for not sporty stuff?
I think guys who are willing to try new activities/take beginner classes into their 30s and 40s tend to be more laid back, comfortable with themselves and not concerned about projecting a ‘cool guy’ image.
Anon
This point on beginner humility is smart!
Anon
I recently took a wine certification course in person and there were quite a few men in the class!
NYCer
A coworker met her husband via a road cycling group. Not my thing, but she said there were lots of single men.
Anonymous
Mountain biking is another good one.
Anonymous
This is very out there but consider taking up skydiving! There are clubs in every state and it is about 80% male dominated, but the women who do it are VERY welcoming. It gives you an incredible sense of accomplishment and obviously is a great conversation starter and something to bond over.
dear reader
+1 I would have never thought about this, but yes! I’ve jumped 9 times; started to get my license but let it fizzle out due to distance to the drop zone. It is definitely a hobby for some people, and drop zones are pretty fun places to hang out at.
Anon
What kind of social activities are you into?
I live near a very large city, and there are now young adult social gatherings that usually involve a happy hour and sometimes a larger / longer party at the local modern art museum (monthly series), symphony, and one of the large theaters (for seeing plays). I am older, and wish these things had been around when I was younger, and am so curious what the scene is like.
HFB
Rock collecting (aka rock hounding). Im new to this hobby and haven’t gone to any local group meetings, but there are a lot of groups near me and a lot of the people in the online fotums seem to be make. Could also try wood turning; there’s a chain store called Rockler that offers classes. Equipment is kind of an investment though, in money and space. You could also do wood carving with hand tools.
Anon
My husband plays in an ultimate frisbee group that’s mostly men. You don’t have to be super athletic and from observing it seems like a lot of them aren’t. My husband is a married, late 30s professor but lots of the people in the group are single grad students in their late 20s.
Anonymous
Yes! I know two couples who met via ultimate
Anon
My husband and I used to volunteer for a group that planted trees and it was very male heavy. Habitat for Humanity or other such building/service projects.
And I met my husband contradancing. It is female heavy, but not so much that you can’t meet people.
Anon
I have a dear friend (male) who met his wife contradancing. They are adorable.
Anonymous
I polled some of my single guy friends. They all hang out watching sports (at friends homes or bars), playing poker, skiing, golfing, cycling.
Maybe a poker group? Or a book group if you are into bookish guys?
My non sporty brother met his finance at a wedding/through a friend. He was the best man, his fiancé was the maid of honor. He’s marrying his best friend’s wife’s sister :).
Anon
That’s so awesome, now he and his best friend will be brothers-in-law and their kids will be cousins. So sweet.
312
Beer tastings or festivals – if you don’t mind the taste … my husband is a big beer drinker and there are often lots of men and very few women at any beer related event …
Anon
I was looking for high end work pants and struck out. But because it is 2023, I am finding that my black and navy “High-Waisted Wow Stretch Boot-Cut Pants for Women” are filling a wardrobe hole nicely. The fabric is like for lighter weight khakis. A nice amount of stretch. Rise is nice, not high around my ribs. The flare is very moderate. No back pockets but nice front pockets. I have to tell you that the stretch waist is like those button with elastic setups for toddlers. I did not realize that this feature extended to those of us who are earning a paycheck. Best of all, as a hippy 8, the 10 I ordered fits fantastically. All for 30ish dollars (maybe there was a sale). At any rate, I am very pleased. Everything else at the mall was a hot HOT mess or just out of stock.
ALT
Where are these from? I think you left that part out!
Anon
Old Navy
Anon
I’m also failing at pants but I have gotten some awesome athleisure finds at Old Navy recently, plus a summer dress that is actually good quality. They have definitely upped their game, at least compared to 10-20 years ago. Also I am often an XS at ON while I am often a medium everywhere else, so not complaining about that either lol
Anon
Like I shopped there when I was debt ridden and just starting out. Now, all curvy cuts are gone (like I tried on all of Abercrombie) and ON is all I’m left with as an option even though I have $ to spend on clothes. It is just baffling.
Leatty
I still like the MM LaFleur Foster pants.
Anon
Advice for getting a rust stain out of a white synthetic blouse?
Anon
I use Spray and Wash stain STICK for everything, follow instructions and let soak in hot water for several hours or overnight. Scrub as vigorously as possible without harming the fabric and wash normally.
Cat
Buy the Rust & Perspiration Carbona Stain Devils.
Anon
I was today years old before learning about Stain Devils.
Senior Attorney
Me, too! Wow!
Anon
If you can’t get it out with other products, supposedly you can use Iron Out on fabrics. Iron out instantly dissolves iron stains but I’ve never actually used it on a fabric.
Anon
Baseball mom here to confirm that Iron Out will remove red Georgia clay, which is red because of its iron content. The powder version that you mix with water to soak the item in works better than the spray. Waaaaay better. It produces noxious fumes, so do this in a well-ventilated area. Let soak overnight.
anon
I had luck with lemon & salt combo.
First, squeeze lemon juice on the stain, then cover with fine-grain salt, let it work for a few mins, rinse, repeat.
Anon
If you try all the others and they don’t work, try peroxide. It works really well with blood as well.
Boden blouse size vs Talbots?
Looking to order from Boden. Is a size 10 blouse likely to fit similarly to a Talbots 10? Thanks!
Ribena
If you click into the size guide you’ll be able to scroll down and see the actual garment measurements for the item you’re looking at – measure a blouse you already have and compare.
OP
Ok thanks! I’m actually trying ThredUp for the first time but I can certainly go to Boden and understand their general sizing, will do!
Anon
I think Talbot’s is more bust-accommodating than Boden, which seems more straight up and down.
Cat
+1, I find Boden to run long & lean so it usually is a miss for me personally.
Anon
Returns to Thredup are free and super easy if you live near a post office.
OP
Thanks, in this case I won’t go nuts filling a cart of blouses that are likely not to fit! Will try their site and order one to see!
Anonymous
I find a 10 in Boden is like an 8 in JCrew if that helps. Dresses though and blouses may vary.
Anon
Boden is usually UK sizing. UK10 is a US6.
Anon
Most of the pieces I have lost both the UK and US size and thred up uses the US one so I don’t think you need to do the adjustment yourself.
Mar
I’d be careful about this – I’ve stopped buying Boden from ThredUp because over half of the pieces were the UK size and not the US size. If I can’t see the tag in the picture I don’t buy it any longer.
Anon
Boden US size runs smaller than Talbots. I wear Boden 6 US/10 UK, probably 2-4 in Talbots!
Anon
Regular going very, very anon for this. Does anyone have resources, advice, anecdotes regarding marriage and consent?
Overall, I feel like I have a good marriage to my spouse of 20 years but one issue keeps coming up and I cannot take it any longer. We have opposite gardening drives, though we do garden on average once a week, which seems like a pretty normal frequency. Less than he wants, more than I want, so I consider it a fair compromise. However every several years this difference in our drives comes to a head in a rather toxic way.
The issue is that every so often he starts acting like because I am his wife, he can behave lecherously towards me around the clock, leer at me any time and anywhere he pleases, and introduce expressly unwanted gardening undertones into our every mundane interaction because isn’t that the benefit of being married? This behavior was non-existent when we were first married, then about a decade ago it started to appear and I shut it down vehemently, reminding him that I am an autonomous human who expects to be treated with basic respect and that when I say no it still means no regardless of our tax filing status. Now this attitude is emerging again and I am not okay with him treating me like a piece of meat first and foremost just because I have a ring on my hand. He claims I should be flattered by his attention or alternately tries to shame me for not being accommodating as he sees me as his only permissible outlet for such behavior. He gets upset when I tell him I don’t find it permissible to be treated that way at all, by anyone, and he complains and bemoans that I think he is just a dirty old man (which at this point, yes, I kinda do).
When this cycle starts up he claims he feels neglected while I feel stalked and smothered. I shut down and draw away from him because I don’t like this slimy, gross, unwanted treatment. He then ramps it up because he feels neglected. It is not a sustainable cycle and I don’t know what the next step should be.
Anonymous
Call a divorce lawyer and get out of this abusive marriage.
anon_needs_a_break
I think calling this abusive is a stretch, at least with the limited info we have here.
Honestly OP I’m not convinced you are reliable narrator on what he is doing because you seem SO anti-sex (based on this little recap, I could of course be wrong!). But like – Is your husband being “lecherous” or is he showing you he is attracted to you? incorporating sexual statements and undertones is pretty normal in most relationships so it’s jarring to hear you call it “slimy” and “gross.”
Listen, you can leave whatever relationship you want, and clearly this one isn’t working – but I really object to jumping to “he’s abusive” here without more information.
Anonymous
He’s rapey.
anon
what an accusation based on no allegations. wow.
Anon
I’m very big into consent so I’m not going to say OP isn’t a reliable narrator. His advances probably make her uncomfortable but I’m not sure it rises to the level of abuse. I don’t think we have enough information. However, I would consider individual and couples therapy. Unequal gardening desire is a huge issue in a marriage. I would hate to not have my needs met and this is often why couples consider an open marriage.
anon
Yeah, I suspect she is being accurate in her descriptions of *how this makes her feel* whether or not she is describing conduct others would objectively consider “lecherous.”. And in marriage, how it makes her feel is really critical.
It may also be the case that her husband would say that he’s trying to be flirtatious and s*xy because he’s read that can help bring back the romance, and she’s making him feel like a rapey lecher. We’ve had posts here from women who have a higher drive than their husbands who feel enormously rejected and hurt and like they’ve been made to feel badly about their s*xual desires. How her husband feels is also really critical. This truly is the kind of situation that therapy exists to deal with.
Anon
I agree. This could be a case where the post is simply lacking in some information or written in a particular way, but it reads to me as ‘my husband doesn’t understand that I am not attracted to him and don’t want to have sex with him, but he continues to try to engage me in a sexual way and GOD is it awful’. Or perhaps her husband is generally attractive to her but sexually inept, and keeps making come-ons that fall totally flat (‘leering’)? Or is OP going through something herself (menopause?)? There is a lot that is unclear here.
Anon
Agree 100% with this take.
anon
Have you spelled it out for him explicitly in this way? If not, that feels like the logical next step – and then to work together on a solution that fits both of your needs.
anon
The next step is that you should go to therapy. Mismatched drive is REALLY common in marriage, but you have to deal with it in a healthy way. Do you all otherwise have a warm and affectionate relationship? Do you have affectionate non-s*xual physical interaction?
For most couples, gardening is not just about physical release – it’s about emotional connection. How is your emotional connection?
Anonymous
Therapy with an abuser is not appropriate or safe.
anon
Nothing she’s described is indicative of abuse.
Anon
Ditto
anon
This seems like an overreach, given the information at hand.
Anon
How is this abusive?
Senior Attorney
I agree that therapy with an abuser is contra-indicated, but I don’t think this is that. I think this is a classic case of mismatched sex drives combined with a basic misunderstanding about how to communicate those sex drives, which could definitely be helped by come joint therapy. Especially with somebody who specializes in t this issue. Also, OP, check out the writings of late (unfortunately named) Dr. David Schnarch, who did a lot of writing on this topic.
Anon
OP here. Thank you for posting this; I appreciate the recommendation and will check out his work.
I will say that stepping back and looking at our relationship as objectively as I can, I would not consider it abusive. More like poor communication as we have both aged and changed leading to massive misunderstanding.
Anon
Counseling and/or a divorce. I like being able to be playful with my spouse, ve described something extra here.
Anon
My spouse and I act “lecherously” toward each other a lot, largely because our drive sometimes exceeds our ability to actually engage in gardening, what with work, parenting, workout and hobby schedules, our middle-aged needs to get no less than 7 hours of sleep each night, etc. I kind of look at it as a “hey, even though we haven’t gardened in a couple of weeks I’m still into you” signaling. But in our case, it is mutual and I find it funny and flattering, as does my husband.
If OP is seriously bothered by it, then obviously her husband should stop the behavior, but I think there’s also something troublesome about shutting down every playful comment or advance from one’s spouse. I was cooking dinner the other night and my husband came in and said “hey sexy lady” and kissed me on the ear. We both knew no gardening would be happening that evening as our son had friends over. I didn’t see it as a lecherous advance, but as a playful compliment. Referencing sex in any way doesn’t make someone a lech and it doesn’t mean that person sees their spouse as “a piece of meat.”
A different anon
What you describe sounds like a lot of fun! I hope I have a partnership like that someday!
I was in a relationship some years ago that had devolved into the only time my partner touched me was to try and initiate sex. It’s a horrible feeling when a hug isn’t affectionate, rather it’s demanding, and you know it when you feel it. OP, I think I understand what you’re experiencing a bit but I’m not sure what the answer is.
anon
Therapy. We are slightly mismatched in drives, and I do get annoyed when DH starts inserting innuendo into regular conversation. But he never, ever pressures me, and that’s the part I’d find more objectionable than the stupid comments.
anon
No advice here other than what folks have already said, but I just wanted to share support. This must be tough and I hope you’re able to work through it one way or another. you deserve to feel valued!
Anon
A good therapist will point out that being a lech usually causes women around him to be less interested in gardening, not more. A good therapist will also drill down and figure out what problematic beliefs are causing him to behave this way.
I’m not saying this to start a debate about my faith, just putting it out there: the Catholic Church has the concept of “marital chastity,” which is basically that marriage is not a gardening free-for-all. That’s a lot of what you’re getting at: marriage isn’t a license to use your spouse or treat them badly.
anon_needs_a_break
I think unfortunately, religion and patriarchy are a huge reason so many women think they don’t enjoy sex.
Anonymous
I have never before recommended this, but I think counseling would really help you both. There is probably a middle ground here that you will never find if you continue on your current paths.
I’m not saying you should feel uncomfortable. I do recognize a lot of myself in what you wrote and DH and I went through a lot but have come out on the other side much, much happier.
I do think mismatched drives is a huge issue and it’s one I’ve navigated through successfully but it took a lot of real work. One example from my experience anyway was that I too felt “like a piece of meat” and just generally annoyed/grossed out by DH’s behavior. We had to have some really hard conversations and worked through how he can better communicate his attraction/desire and also how I can respond to it – whether or not I’m into what he’s saying- that isn’t hurtful or rejecting.
We also had to really dig into what turns us on. I was 100% not interested in s*x with DH for a while and his behavior was making it worse, not better. DH has always had a stronger drive but then we had kids and it made things worse- I was touched-out. We basically did a huge reset on the entire s*x aspect of our marriage, figuring out what was attractive to me was a big part of it.
That was a few years ago and I think we’d be on the path to divorce if we didn’t do all the hard work.
Good luck!
Anon
This is really good advice.
When you say your drives are very different, and you would prefer less than once a week, does that mean… you would prefer… not at all/almost never? Are you no longer attracted to him in that way?
You wouldn’t be the only one. A close friend had the same situation, and she was becoming physically repulsed by her husbands gestures. She would point things out to me that he said/did, and honestly I was startled because to me they seemed typical for what a partner might say/do in a healthy marriage. I always wondered whether there were worse things happening behind the scenes that she didn’t reveal, but she never said so… But because of their different drives, it seemed like pretty much all of the physical gestures he made towards her became unpleasant over time.
They really needed therapy, and teaching her partner that she needed more emotional intimacy before she ever felt ready for physical intimacy. They both needed help with communication. Unfortunately, they were not able to follow through and quit therapy and their relationship fell apart.
Anonymous
I posted above (not the OP) and at the time we were hitting a wall, I would be fine with no sex for months. I didn’t need it, was busy, and didn’t enjoy it when we did- it felt like work.
Part of what changed was me. Part of what changed was him. Part of what changed is how we communicated to each other and how we spent our time together.
Now we have sex a few times a week, and are both really happy. One random thing I discovered is I’m often way too tired to have s*x after a full day of work and wrangling the kids. I want to hit the pillow and close my eyes. We have worked more morning/daytime s*x into our routine and it’s totally different for me. That was NOT the only change and certainly not an instant fix for a much more complicated problem.
Anonymous
I’m interested in the leap from <1/wk to "almost never". Not saying it's healthy but isn't the lifetime avg of sex between married couples in the single digits per year? There is a whole range of normal, and many couples end up with 0 for years.
Anonymous
Sure. And idk how they calculate things, but that was me that posted. I’m 40 and been married since 29. My average number of times having sex per year is probably 12. There were huge dry patches. Now there are not. Idk. Also we will be married a long time. I doubt we will be having s*x 3x/week at 80 but who knows ;).
Anon for this
+1 to this. We went through something very similar (right down to me feeling “touched out” with small kids) and therapy was 100% the answer to identify what was going on. Things are much better now. But it is an on going process – as we’ve gotten older and our lives more complicated, both the emotional and physical aspects of intimacy also got more complicated, whereas for the first part of our relationship it was easy.
anon
You said this well, about the emotional and physical aspects being more complex now. DH and I are in our early to mid-40s, and I am still very attracted to him. But I do not crave sex the way I used to, it feels different now (my body, not because of him), and it’s a huge bummer. I honestly don’t know what to do about it. At the end of a long day of work and parenting, I am tired and just done. DH is fine with nonsexual physical touch, but I always feel low-level guilty about it, like I’m denying him what he really wants. It’s just … complicated, after being very uncomplicated for many, many years.
Anon
“DH and I are in our early to mid-40s, and I am still very attracted to him. But I do not crave sex the way I used to, it feels different now (my body, not because of him), and it’s a huge bummer. I honestly don’t know what to do about it.”
My OB/GYN straight-up asked me how I was feeling about my level of desire and when I told her exactly what you said here (because I could have written that exact statement above), she said this is basically a perimenopause side effect – it doesn’t work that way for everyone, but it does for many women – and that we could look at hormonal testing or supplementation (she specifically mentioned estrogen HRT) if it started becoming a real problem. She emphasized that it was a problem if I thought it was a problem, not if my husband thought it was. Maybe worth a conversation with your doctor? I have not made that leap yet but if my drive gets any lower, I might. My husband is completely fine with our frequency level but I miss feeling that desire. While I might never feel again the way that I did when I was in my 20s, I won’t accept that I will just never want to garden again ever when I still have so many years of living (knock on wood) ahead of me.
Elle
My husband and I are really open and honest about this. When he starts getting overly touchy- I tell him I’m not horny and he needs to go take care of himself. I try to be matter of fact about it (not get snappy or angry) and he tries to not take it personally. It’s not alway perfect but I think direct communication has really helped.
Anon
Same
dear reader
+1 we have open and direct communication around whether or not we’re feeling it. We use the exact same language “take care of yourself” and it’s not loaded at all. That is assuming you’re not in a marriage/culture/faith where self-gardening is frowned upon or forbidden. Idk how a couple navigates this in a healthy way if self-gardening isn’t on the table.
Agree about therapy on how to get from how OP and husband are communicating now, to a more open respectful place where all needs can be addressed.
Anonymous
This may seem like a stupid question but: when where do you take care of yourself? I’m the higher drive partner but my gardening tool is LOUD. Quieter ones just don’t do it for me as well. I feel like I can only use it when he’s out of the house, which is to say rarely. I’ve tried to talk to him about “private time” but he says if he walked in on me taking care of myself he would want to join. Thing is, I don’t want him to join, if I’m handling it myself it’s because he’s already rejected me and I’ve sort of switched gears.
Anonymous
Idea: before any other propositioning (and potential rejection) text him that you are going upstairs to take care of things and does want to join you
If yes, then you have your sex. If not, he knows what he’s missing.
I’m the lower drive partner and this works really well for us.
theguvnah
lock your bedroom door and play loud music!
do it while he’s in the shower!
do it while he’s not home!
do it while he’s on a conference call in the other room!
Anon
Do it while you’re in the shower or bath with the door locked.
Anonymous
Not sure I can add anything helpful, but I know exactly how you feel. The dynamic in my relationship is very similar. Comments, looks, touching that feels very much like a violation. It has taken me a very long time to learn to stand up for myself and say no and to explain how that makes me feel. It isn’t usually taken well, but I feel better for standing up for myself. So many women, I believe, are taught or learn in their surroundings that the man should always get his way and we tend to allow this to continue to happen. In researching what abuse can actually look like, depending on the rest of your relationship, this is definitely bordering on it. Commiseration with our situation.
anon_needs_a_break
If something my partner did, especially repeatedly, felt like a violation that person would no longer be my partner!
Anon
+1000.
Vicky Austin
I’d say therapy for yourself, for sure. Your admittance that at this point you do feel like he’s a dirty old man needs some unpacking. (Isn’t it a Gottman principle that a marriage where you despise your other half is pretty hard to salvage?)
I’m not sure I’d call this abusive based on what you’ve told us, but I think you need a neutral sounding board who can help you suss that out.
Anon for this
OK. My ex husband also started this kind of behavior late in our marriage. Looking back at it, I realize now that he was either contemplating/had made a decision to stray from the marriage and by essentially “forcing” me to “reject” him repeatedly after these unwelcome and over the top overtures he was justifying and reinforcing – in his mind – his decision to stray.
I think he is cheating or building up the “courage” to seek an extramarital affair.
Anon
+1 my ex husband did the same thing, getting over the top with advances while cheating. We tried couples therapy, where he blamed me saying I forced him to look elsewhere. Couples therapy was a very negative experience for me, and I got my own therapist to process it.
Anon
Question: when you garden, is it as good for you as it is for him? People do have inherently different levels of drive, but bad gardening can really destroy anyone’s drive. Women are conditioned to believe that they aren’t entitled to climax or that emotional intimacy is enough or whatever sexist trope does it for you. Reality is that non-satisfying sex just plain sucks and over time, it destroys the marriage.
No Face
Your last paragraph is key. You both feel like you have unmet needs and you both have needs that matter.
You feel disrespected. Is it just this issue or generally? If you feel unappreciated in general, the gardening comments may feel offensive for that reason. Like, I do all of this and all he thinks about is gardening! You can also think about what is sensual to you.
It sounds like he feels neglected. As I high gardening needs person, I would feel very sad and rejected if my husband never looked at me with desire, never made positive comments about my body, never said explicitly garden-y things to me. Also, as a man he has probably been taught that talking about or even having feelings is bad, so there’s that.
I like the book “Hold me Tight” for this. Counseling is good too.
Anon
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. There is nothing wrong with YOU here. I don’t really have advice other than to ignore any advice to have sex more often. That’s absolutely not the solution when you’re already feeling objectified and disrespected. Your DH is entitled to want sex, but he’s not entitled to have it with you. Any adult who doesn’t handle his own sex drive (masturbation exists) isn’t taking responsibility for himself.
Anon
Also, you’re already having sex with him more than you want to. That’s extremely problematic (I know others here disagree). In my view, there is no compromise on this – a healthy marriage must default to the partner with lower drive so no one ever, EVER has sex she doesn’t want to have. The partner with the higher drive is entitled to leave the marriage if he or she can’t tolerate that.
Anonymous
This approach tries to draw too bright a line for something that just isn’t black and white. Desire isn’t a light switch. Sometimes we feel about gardening like we feel about the gym: I really WANT to want it but I’m tired/unmotivated/whatever maybe tomorrow. Or the next day. And then it never happens. I don’t think it’s bad advice to tell a person who feels that way – give yourself a push, try touching and kissing for like 10 minutes and see how you feel, just like you would tell your friend who wants to work out more – just get to the gym and if you’re only there 10 minutes that’s fine.
It doesn’t sound like that’s where OP is, her husband is actively turning her off, and that’s it’s own problem. But compromising at once a week isn’t inherently bad.
Anon for this
Yes, in keeping with my earlier post about everything being more complicated, part of getting back on track was me realizing it wasn’t going to be easy like before. If I waited for that easy spontaneous feeling, it would never happen and my marriage would be over or effectively irreparably damaged (my spouse was v concerned about lack of intimacy and raised it with me). So went to therapy and as a result I took steps to make it happen (along with my spouse making some changes) and it’s worked. But I wasn’t totally repulsed by or unattracted to my spouse, and I have a relatively high drive. I was just more generally annoyed, tired, and frustrated with life/my spouse. Thinking of my marriage as a team and of intimacy being an essential part of team helped me shift my thinking. In a way, it was getting me back to a place of active participation rather than feeling like merely an object, which is my personal standard for such activity.
Anon
Agree with this. Gardening if you’re in pain/actively miserable is problematic. But if it’s just something you have to kind of psych yourself up to do but enjoy once it gets going, that’s ok (and fairly common for women, in my experience). Also the poster at 12:22’s solution is the higher drive partner leaving the marriage. There are a lot of people who would rather do some gardening they aren’t enthusiastic about than have their partner leave them, and I think that’s a valid choice to make.
Anon
Compromising once a week is different, though. OP makes it sound like they’re committed to once a week, regardless of mood/interest, and she said it’s more than she wants. How much clearer can she get? That’s not the same as “we make time for intimacy and allow it to happen naturally if we’re both into it after ten minutes.”
Anon
It complicates things for me that low libido is such a common side effect of hormonal contraception and even SSRIs.
Anon
Sure – but, often, the lower drive person doesn’t want the marriage to end. Can you recognize that for some people they would rather have sex more often than they ideally want (including sometimes when they’re not really in the mood) than get a divorce?
Anon
No, I don’t think that really works well because you end up with scenarios like what OP has described where there is disrespect, resentment, and getting grossed out. I think it might be a Band-Aid for a while but I don’t think it can be healthy in the long term. I’ve had several friends go through this and it has not ended well.
anon
The issue here is that he’s thinking that because you’re married, he’s done all the work of wooing you and he never has to do it again. Like it’s a task he accomplished by getting you to marry him and now the gardening, groping, leering is just on the table. You may need therapy to explain to him that you will find him more appealing if there’s some element of continual romance in the relationship.
Fullyfunctional
He is making desperate bids for your attention, and you are cold and defensive. Please get therapy if you care about your marriage.
Anon
This is not what you want to hear but my experience in my friend group (married women in their 40s) is that these relationships usually end is divorce when the husband finds a 20-something who is willing to garden as much as he wants. The ones I know who stay married are turning a blind eye to infidelity.
Sarto Eda loafer styling
How can I style Sarto Eda loafers with straight or wide leg full length pants (trousers style) for work in the winter? I bought these intending to wear sockless but it looks off with my pale ankles peeping out. It’s not bitter cold here but it is highs of 50. Are thin trouser socks ever acceptable? Previously I wore Cole Haan black grand zero with socks and that seemed good but I wanted to step it up. (South east, not particularly stylish area and casual end of bus cas. Help me “shoe” please!!!!
NYNY
I like to make socks intentional, so I vote thin socks with some pattern or color interest. I like knee socks when it’s cold out, because they truly make a difference in how warm I am outdoors, and they also are less likely to fall down around my ankles. But these are sock-socks, not the pantyhose-adjacent “trouser socks” of yore.
OP
Thanks. Indeed I grabbed my old pantyhose adjacent socks but I do have actual real socks, this is better now you explain it to me! Not really visible either way until I sit…
NYNY
I wear a lot of black, so my faves are black knee socks with thin white stripes. When I sit down, especially if I dross my legs, the stripes show, but it looks like I thought about it. I was trying to find some links, but am failing.
Anonymous
I think you would be fine with a patterned trouser sock as well.
Household Manager
Seeking advice for hiring a household manager. If you have explored this: at what point did you hire a household manager? What kinds of tasks does that individual take care of? How many hours a week do you use their help, and what is your hourly pay?
I’m considering making the plunge, but feel ridiculous for considering it. My husband and I have two high intensity careers. No kids yet. And still, we have trouble finding the time to do things like: holiday decorating, home inventory and restocks, managing home maintenance appointments (and being there to attend to them), researching purchases for the home, vehicle cleaning and maintenance, and home organization. I think we felt this acutely over the holidays. Having 5-10 hours a week of help would be incredible–but also, we can scrape by on our own for now.
Anon
I think it’s more trouble than it’s worth. The path that’s worked for me is not optimizing everything. Need a couch? Buy the one my friend recommended and double check the measurements (5 minutes versus hours of research). Holiday decor? Not gonna bother or I’m going to have some flowers delivered. I do have a weekly housecleaning service and that helps tremendously. They also do laundry and clean out the fridge. Oh, and we order precooked meals for 2-3 nights a week. Once you streamline things for yourself, the need for someone else to explain things to goes away.
anon a mouse
Yep, this, until you are truly at a tipping point. Check out the Lazy Genius – decide once, don’t spend your time on stuff that doesn’t matter. Vehicle service – find a garage that will pick your car up and leave a loaner, even if it costs more. Home inventory – keep a running list when something is low or empty and buy a bunch at one time.
The only thing I haven’t solved is home maintenance, but I ended up WFH or taking leave in a pinch.
Senior Attorney
I tend to agree with this, but sometimes a third person can be a godsend. My husband is retiring at the end of the month and we are going to keep his assistant on retainer (amount not yet decided) to help with various things (including the remnants of his law practice as it winds down). Here’s an example of the first thing she did, which I experienced as a straight-up miracle: Hubby needs cataract surgery. He was procrastinating finding a surgeon and making an appointment, as is his wont. I was going to take it over and then I was also getting nowhere, for Reasons including not having ready access to his insurance information. This went on for literally months. We turned it over to her, and within ONE DAY she had researched all the options, chosen a surgeon, and his first appointment is tomorrow. Lesson: Sometimes somebody who isn’t all up in their thoughts and feelings about a task can do a million times better job than the person who is directly involved.
Anon
Amen to your last sentence.
Moose
I did a job somewhat similar to think when in college, with tasks assigned to me weekly. Not necessarily a long-term solution to hire a college student who wants a few hours of work, but will definitely take things off your plate.
anon
We thought about it for a long time, but didn’t try it until we had kids. In the end, we didn’t keep the manager but our nanny does a lot of this stuff for us while our youngest is at school. I honestly probably wouldn’t do it if you only need 5-10 hours of help, simply because the process of someone getting to know your family well enough to truly take on things like researching home purchases, organizing your home in a way you would like, etc. takes a long time.
Think about it this way: it’s like having someone grocery shop for you. The first few times they do it, you’re going to have to tell them literally every single thing you want down to size, brand, whether a generic is okay, what substitute you want if the thing isn’t available, how ripe you want your produce, etc. Now multiply that for every complex task you want handled.
Anon
+1
It is very had to find the quality person to fill this hole, and you still have to spend the time planning each thing you want to have done. Quality people with great independent judgement don’t want to be hired for 5 hours per week.
I do sympathize though. Totally.
Curious
Yohana is doing this in Seattle. No idea how well, but I get the ads all the time. It solves the five hours a week problem by aggregating demand.
Veronica Mars
I’d consider doing more “path of least resistance” before you get into a house manager. Having household necessities on auto-delivery on Amazon even though that’s more expensive than running to the store yourself. Ditto for grocery delivery. Holiday decor? There are decorating services that can come in and take away the lights/decor. Vehicle maintenance might be an area of figuring out if a local dealership has good service. We’ve had subarus where the dealer comes to pick up the car for service, leaves a loaner car, and delivers the car back. Is it more expensive, absolutely, but since subarus are generally lower hassle cars than say, a BMW it seems to work out much better for everyone involved.
Anon
I’m promise that I’m not being snarky, but if you’re only envisioing hiring someone for 5-10 hours a week, then you’re not really looking for a household manager. It sounds like you kind of want to turn over runnning your house to someone. With so few hours, you’re going to have to be a lot more proactive at giving explicit instructions for discrete tasks. You’re not going to be able to just turn over “vehicle maintenance” or “managaging home maintenance appointments.” I’m not saying this to discourage you, it’s still really great to have an extra set of hands for 10 hours a week, but you should go in with realistic expectations. In my town, this would probably be a SAHM looking for a little extra income.
If you’r truly want to be able to hand over things to someone like you describe, you need to be willing to employ them at least 20 hours a week. At least in my large SEUS city, it’s still going to be very difficult to find someone who is willing to work only 20 hours. Do you have someone in the neighborhood who might be in the same boat, and between the two of you, you could offere someone 30-40 hours a week. That might get you closer to what you want. Here, you would probably need to offer $18-$25 an hour and don’t forget about taxes, etc.
Anon
$40/hr, 5-10 hours a week for cleaning & household management help. VHCOL city. Two high-intensity careers, no kids, honestly it’s a lifesaver. The lady who helps us out was originally our cleaner who’s great- we asked her to stay and help with meeting a tradesperson one day, she asked about something we hadn’t noticed another week, 6 months in I offered a raise to $40/hr, a “retainer” of 20 hours a month minimum, and asked her to take on the other tasks.
Anon
Actually, my parents had someone kinda like this, but not as independent as the OP desires. She was previously their cleaning person. She came about 20 hours a month totally, coming weekly, and did the cleaning/laundry/a few outside things for the house and could do very very simple errands. She kept track of when things needed to be re-ordered, by leaving the empty container on the counter. Could move something heavy (would ask her son or husband to come), walk to the nearby grocery store, wait for a tradesperson etc… But she didn’t drive (took public transportation) and English was not her 1st language and had to be told exactly what to do. And we basically needed to plan around her schedule, since it was only a few hours per week. Of course it helps a lot, but requires a lot of pre-planning to be helpful. And pricier – $45/hr.
Anon
And I had one friend in LA who had someone who was initially just her cleaning person, who now does all of her food shopping and cooks all of her food for the week and puts it in the fridge. She also helped with tradespeople at the house when work was being done. It is truly incredible. Shocking to me, she did not increase what she pays her and just pays what was her initial cleaning rate. I told her that this was inappropriate and she should be paying her much more, but she is from a culture that often takes advantage of their home help (she grew up in Indian with a lot of “servants”). I’m not friends with her anymore.
But this experience taught me that if you have someone already working with you that gets to know you/your family well (like a nanny or cleaning person), then sometimes it can evolve over time to something that works well for both of you. But please pay them appropriately.
Anonymous
They talked about this on corporettemoms – most people keep their nanny on for this kind of thing after the kids get older.
Anonymous
https://corporettemoms.com/a-housekeeper-for-working-moms/
anon
I didn’t need this level of help before kids, but I would have benefited from practice hiring and managing household staff before kids. It’s a skill, and like any skill, easier to learn when you’re not sleep deprived. If you’re planning on having a lot of household help when you have kids, I think it’s a good idea to give this a try.
Curious
Omg 100x this.
Curious
Further: I hired our nanny *from a hospital bed*. Quite the experience. Having household help is wonderful and a challenge. I loved our nanny, but I’m glad we’re in daycare now. (We are very happy with our cleaner! Much less complex of a job, and it’s okay if they miss a day and come the next.)
Anonymous
I’ve tried variations on this and my conclusion is that it is an enormous amount of work to find someone and manage them. I do think that outsourcing as much as possible is a good idea, but I have never successfully found someone to whom I can just outsource my home management. I think the key is to outsource what can be successfully outsourced, so your personal attention can go to things that are hardest to give to someone else.
Some successful outsourcing, however, includes:
Cooking
Laundry
Cleaning
Interior decorating and home furniture purchases
Amazon Subscribe-and-Save for everything you need on a regular basis
Exterior holiday decorating
Clothes purchasing – most successful back when Nordstrom still had Trunk Club
Yardwork
Anon
+1 to all of this. I’ve tried a few times and had a really hard time. It’s a lot of work to set up. When my kids are older, I can see my nanny taking on some of this while they are in school but for not I’ve found outsourcing to various people to execute is the easiest.
IL
Two things stick out for me in your post:
Are you dividing these areas up between you and your husband so that you don’t have to think about certain categories? For instance, I don’t think about our car, its maintenance, registration, insurance, whether it has gas in it, whether the garage is clean, nothing. It’s my husband’s responsibility. Not having to think about certain things is, to me, almost more important than the time I am not spending on them.
And second, if you aren’t just looking for a house cleaner on steroids, have you considered hiring a property management firm? The good ones can coordinate lawn care, home repairs and maintenance, holiday decorations, grocery delivery, linen service, and so on. I know it’s mostly for vacation homes, but they are happy enough to do a primary residence at the right price.
anonshmanon
+1. I have mostly freed up any mental space that used to deal with laundry. No keeping track of detergent, coordinating with the neighbor on using the washer, taking laundry off the drying rack when it’s going to rain. It’s all the husband’s job. Same for dishes.
Anonymous
I might have my very first yeast infection, yay perimenopause. No discharge but itchy and redness. Should I just take the 3-day monistat or should I see if it goes away on its own? (Or, gasp, consult my gyn?)
Cat
I don’t think these go away on their own? Worth a quick chat or telemedicine visit with the gyn or at least picking up the Monistat.
Anon
I have had exactly one yeast infection in my life and there have been very few things worse than the pain I felt using the 3 day monistat. Cleared it up, but I thought I was being burnt from the inside out. I’d call and ask for a gyn consult.
anon
THIS. Oh my word, the pain.
eertmeert
Yes – have had many yeast infections and monistat ALWAYS made it worse before getting better. Should be called Mistery-stat.
Go to a local urgent care center, at mine you can do your own swab and they send it for testing while in the meantime ask for a Diflucan pill.
Anon
A tampon with 5-6 drops of tea tree oil diluted with 1 oz coconut oil works (tea tree oil is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial). I find monistat feels awful so this is what I do before going to the over the counter stuff.
anonshmanon
Pretty sure my OB GYN would be horrified at this advice.
Anonymous
A few decades ago, the usual treatment for yeast infections was yoghurt on a tampon. Obviously natural yoghurt! Instant relief.
BeenThatGuy
Since you’ve never had one before, please have this diagnosed by a doctor before you treat it.
Anon
+1.
Also with perimenopause, I’ve been itchy and red and it’s just how things are now. Yay. I bought an external moisturizer on Amazon.
Anon
Eh I don’t get this. Who has time. It’s not like a tea tree oil tampon or monistat is going to give you some horrid disease. I’m very try a home remedy first, doctor and all the time associated with it as a last resort.
Anon
oof I had one and treated it like you suggested. It got out of control quickly and I suffered needlessly. when you’re not used to getting them, it’s worth a doctor’s help. After that, scripts can be called in for you and you know the symptoms
anonshmanon
For one, essential oils are not FDA regulated, so you realllly have to be trusting the manufacturer for ingesting them.
Anonymous
Agree! I thought something was a yeast infection. It was not.
Anon
3-day Monistat is really painful. I would consult with gyn for Nystatin cream
anon
You can also try non-medicated V-gel that is rebalancing the pH. I was recently reading up on bacterial and fungal V infections [for work, I work in pharma] and there was a good evidence for that. Those pH & lactic acid & lactobacil. gels seemed to work for both – bacterial and fungal infections.
Anonymous
When I used to get these I used the 7 day monistat and never had any pain.
Anonymous
You probably want to get it checked out. For me that would be a cortisone ointment issue (skin irritation) but I’ve been down the road of getting it checked out many times.
Curious
Hey, I wanted to apologize for something. A while back there was a thread on punctuation pet peeves. Someone pointed out that double spaces are a pain on screen readers, and I made a quip about a comma splice in their comment. Another reader was like ugh that’s your takeaway? And I said something catty back. I was thinking about how hard it is to live with chronic illness and disability and wanted to apologize for not taking the point. Writing a comment might take a spoon, and punctuation/ spelling/ grammar take more spoons, and even if you have the spoons, who wants to be policed for grammar/punctuation in the comment section of a fashion blog? Anyway, it’s been bugging me, and I’m sorry to that Anon and any other readers who took harm.
Anonymous
That was me, thanks for the apology, I will admit I felt a little dejected, I was really just trying to bring light to the issue. I was especially sensitive that week since I had just finished doing the digital accessibility for a huge work project in several languages.
Curious
That must have been exhausting. Thanks for doing the work. How’d it go? It’s the type of thing where you get little praise but you get all the crap when it goes wrong, isn’t it? I’ll be more sensitive in the future.
Anon
Recently separated but not divorced. I am not sure what I should do about my 401k savings (I max out) and our monthly joint savings contribution. I don’t want to have to split any additional money in these accounts, so I can stop the contributions but I don’t want to stop saving obviously. Should I reroute the money into a new, separate savings or investment account? But wouldn’t I have to split that too upon divorce since the transfer to this new account would show up on a checking account statement?
Anonymous
Talk to your divorce lawyer.
Anon
Ask your lawyer.
Anon
Most divorce decrees will split accounts as of the date of separation, not the date of divorce. But, yes, ask your lawyer and be sure the separation date is documented.
Senior Attorney
+1
anon
The perimenopause night sweats are becoming a real problem. I often go to bed chilly and wake up drenched in sweat at some point. Then I get chilled when my body is cooling off. It is uncomfortable, annoying, and undoubtedly affecting the quality of my sleep. I haven’t found layering to be all that helpful. By the time I feel anything, the heat and sweating have passed. Any ideas for solving this and staying more comfortable? It’s definitely worse around what would’ve been the week before my period. (I have had a hysterectomy, so no periods, but kept my ovaries.)
Anon
If you drink alcohol, stop for a while and see if that helps. Quitting booze eliminated my night sweats. I’m 44, laid off booze 3 years ago.
Sucks sometimes, but the night sweats sucked more.
Formerly Lilly
And if that doesn’t offer relief, try backing way off of meat and dairy. My perimenopausal years were spent on a mostly unwanted vegan diet. Regular diet equaled hot flashes and night sweats, and vegan equaled no problems at all. In between got me an in between level of problems.
DeepSouth
bamboo cooling sheets — I have a $50 set from Amazon that really help wick moisture away. Eat more protein at dinner/ just before bed. It keeps your digestion working longer. There’s a relationship between hot flashes and insulin spikes in your system. Eating a LOT more protein, especially at the end of the day seems to help me considerably. I am also taking 1mg of estrogen. It’s a tiny dose, so fewer risks of side effects, but I find it is really shaving the edges off many of my symptoms — my belly is less round, I sleep better, I am less irritable. You might ask your doctor.
ALT
I saw something on Twitter about taking vitamin E for SSRI night sweats…maybe try that?
Anon
I hear you. I am also always cold at baseline, and perimenopausal night sweats are so disruptive to my sleep. Can I just say again, how generally unhelpful and unsympathetic my doctors are…. Have you talked to your doctors, and are they confident that your sweats are likely perimenopausal (there are other causes of night sweats…. do you really only get them at night?)?
No easy recs here. The sweats wake me up, I push down my tons of blankets (love to sleep this way), evaporate, fall back asleep, wake up cold, pull up blankets etc… Have you talked about the pros/cons of hormone replacement? This is the best treatment of course, so only you and your doctor can decide what is best for you on this one. For me, my cancer risks and blood clots/other medical risks push me away from this. My PCP said Effexor can be very effective, and if my mood swings continue (also much worse as I am hitting menopause and periods are slowing down), this may help 2 birds with one stone. My PCP admitted that most of the zillions of supplements recommended for hot flashes don’t really work, and my Mom’s experiences taught me that too, but you could also try those. I probably wont bother. My PCP did suggest that a trial of melatonin has helped some of her patients, but again, that doesn’t have good data either.
anon
No, haven’t talked about hormone replacement stuff yet. I’m still on the young-ish side and hate to go that route unless/until it’s absolutely necessary. Not totally opposed, but BC pills always messed me up (or covered up the real issue) so I am very leery about hormonal treatments in general. It truly does seem to be limited to nighttime.
Anon
Actually, there are very good reasons to continue hormone replacement, so I wouldn’t rule it out. If my cancer risk wasn’t so high, I would have considered it for sure.
How old are you?
Because the younger you are, and the earlier you go through menopause, that is associated with increased rates of osteoporosis, dementia, mood disorders, death and lots of bad stuff. And the options are many so an experienced doc could really improve your life.
But forgive me, I do not know your medical situation at all and may be totally off base. But I would definitely talk to your doctor first because there are may things that cause night-sweats (my menopause flashes occur during the day too – it is a mis-nomer to call them just night sweats) and if you are young, your doctor may want to check your hormone levels to make sure this makes sense.
Anon
YES! Ask your doctor for glycopyrrolate. I truly don’t know how I existed before this medicine.
Anon
Tell us more!
What were your symptoms like prior to trying this? Any side effects with glycopyrrolate (like dry mouth, constipation, getting overheated with exercise? Where are you on the perimenopause path? Who recommended this for you? Are you part of a clinical trial?
It is hypothesized that SSRIs/Effexor helps night sweats by working on similar receptors as glycopyrrolate (SSRIs/Effexor have some anti-cholinergic side effects).
Anon
My symptoms were excessive sweating as a side effect of Lexapro/Cymbalta, especially night sweats. I would change my underwear and top several times throughout the night because I’d awake and it would be soaked with sweat. I finally told doctor how much I was suffering and she prescribed glycopyrrolate at 1mg/4x a day. Not part of a clinical trial. The first morning after taking it for a full day prior was…absolutely out of this world. I couldn’t believe that my underwear was dry!! My only symptom was dry mouth which only lasted a few weeks for me.
Anon
Just remembered one more side effect, it also took a little longer than usual to empty my bladder. But that wasn’t serious and also went away with time.
Anon
So interesting! Thank you for sharing this. I hadn’t realized that excessive sweating with SSRIs was a common side effect, to this degree. I see there are trials using glycopyrrolate specifically for this kind of sweating, but I don’t think it is used for hot flashes with menopause. Interesting.
anon
I woke up this morning with my night shirt damp from sweat. I don’t have any advice for the sweating, but I take CBD gummies which overall help me get a solid, uninterrupted night of sleep.
Anon
Not sure if I’m in mod or if I didn’t hit post, but for me quitting alcohol stopped my night sweats. It’s not why I quit, but one of the reasons I stay quit. It sucks sometimes, but the night sweats sucked more. I’m 44, quit drinking 3 years ago, hysterectomy including ovaries.
Anon
Alcohol was a big factor for me too. And I have a lifelong issue of waking up at 2-3 am and worrying if I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine the night before. I basically don’t drink now (like, I will have a glass of champagne to toast a friend’s occasion, but I no longer have wine with dinner at home) and my sleep is much better.
Anon
Was it from hypoglycemia?
Anon
No, it was because of alcohol. Hypoglycemia has never been an issue for me.
Anon
Alcohol can cause hypoglycemia, so I wasn’t sure what the connection was.
Anon
For me it was drinking too damn much, simple as that.
Anonymous
OMGYESSSS I could have written this. I only realized it because my PJs absolutely stink like I’ve run a marathon. Go to bed cold, wake up boiling, then freezing again. Apparently the cold/hot flashes are one of the “final stages” of perimenopause but I’m still really regular.
Anon
It was around perimenopause that I had to buy 7 sets of pajamas. I recommend Soma Cool Nights
Curious
OP, my body went into medical menopause after chemo, and acupuncture was a lifesaver for hot flashes.
Anon
I have been dealing with night sweats for several years now, off and on since I had a hysterectomy 14 years ago in my 30’s. I am now in perimenopause and on HRT and that helps some, but not completely. Some things that have worked for me are linen sheets, linen nightgowns in the summer, and 100% cotton nightgowns the rest of the year. If is especially cold outside, I wear all cotton flannel nightgowns. As long as I am wearing natural fabrics, the night sweats are better. Also, I seem to have more night sweats when wearing pajamas versus nightgowns.
Payal
Hoping the poster who outfitted a doctor’s office with IKEA cabinets is still here. I would love to know which cabinets you chose and how they’ve held up. TIA
Anon
In an average day or week, how much time would you say you spend on calls or in meetings, away from your desk for a work purpose (and if you feel like sharing – what are you doing), collaborative work, and solo head down desk work? If you feel like sharing – what do you do and how far are you into your career?
I come from a background where I did a lot of collaborative work, had meetings and some non-desk work (presenting trainings, occasional logistics help, networking) and my new position is 39 hours a week of solo desk work and I’m miserable.
I’m trying to gauge if my expectations are off or not?
Cat
attorney- about half calls and meetings, half individual drafting type work. If the balance tips, it’s in favor of more calls and meetings. I like the ratio.
Anon
I think the answer isn’t about what we do, but that this new job isn’t working for you and that’s ok. My job is very collaborative, but that’s the nature of my work. You need something more collaborative for work satisfaction.
Anon
Agree, it doesn’t matter what others do. This isn’t working for you.
Anon
I know it’s not working for me and I am job searching.
I am curious what others’ days looks like for two reasons: 1) I’m just curious! 2) Looking to adjust my expectations so when I am interviewing, I have a good idea of “baseline”
Anon
3-5 hours/week in meetings, no collaborative work except meetings, no work away from my desk. So the vast majority of my work is solo head down desk work. I’m in higher ed staff, about 10 years in but still an individual contributor (by choice).
Pre-pandemic when I worked in an office and had in-person meetings, I liked the balance. I’m an introvert and prefer to work alone most of the time and seeing people at meetings and in the breakroom was plenty of social interaction fo rme. Post-pandemic with WFH, I do feel sort of lonely and isolated from work colleagues, but at the same time I appreciate the flexibility that a fulltime WFH job without many meetings gives me. I pretty much set my own hours and rarely work 40 hours/week, and since I’m at home and not in an office, I can spend the extra hours doing stuff I actually enjoy rather than sitting in an office playing Solitaire on my work computer.
Trish
I worked from home before the pandemic and was making a lunch date with friends and colleagues at least once a month. Have decided to start doing this again to have a reason to get dressed and have a good conversation with people in my field.
anon1
This is just so role dependent and neither is right or wrong, it’s about your personal preference.
In my role (executive leadership at a nonprofit) I am in meetings (either supervising a person or running a project meeting or collaborating with other execs to make joint decisions etc) between 5 and 8 hours per day.
While multiple days in a row of all-day zooms with no break is exhausting, a full week of solo desk work would also not work for me!
Anon
Yes, the 2 30-min meetings a week and 39 hours of solo desk work is miserable.
I do agree with you on zooms or calls though, when I have meetings I much, much prefer them to be in person.
Anon
Zoom meetings are so much less pleasant than in person meetings. Fortunately I don’t have many, but I really dread them even though I used to look forward to in person meetings with the same people.
Tea/Coffee
Highly collaborative field (although my particular position is responsible for a lot of data analysis), mid career. IANAL.
I consistently spend 1/2 – 3/4 of my time in collaborative situations including mtgs, phone calls, stop-bys, on-site meetings where we walk around and point at things. Leaving me… not quite enough time for the careful heads-down analysis. It’s why I started WFH one day/week in 2016 (now WFH 2-3 days/week).
I am in outgoing introvert, and my current setup works really well for me. But I could see how an introvert in a highly collaborative role, or an extrovert in a highly independent role, would be a huge mismatch.
Are you in-office? Could you go in, even if you don’t “need” to? A solitary role might be more doable if you can be around others, even if you aren’t actively working with them.
Anon
I go in 3 or 4 days a week! Our policy is that everyone is in Tues, Weds, and Thurs so I do that and the occasional Mon or Fri (though, no one is in when I’m in on those days which defeats the purpose).
Like you, I am an outgoing, social introvert so having a job that’s so solitary is miserable for me.
Anon
You sound like an extrovert. If you find being alone draining, that’s extroversion. Introverts can be social and outgoing but still recharge their batteries by being alone.
Anon
No, I’m actually a very social introvert. I recharge when I’m home alone in the evenings and I really need that time to do so. I spend more time being active and social than I do at home recharging so many people incorrectly assume I’m an extrovert but as much as I enjoy socializing it is draining and I do need my quiet recharge time at home.
Spending 39 of my working hours alone though is not recharging for me. But, I’ve also never really met a work environment that’s recharging for me.
Anonymous
It expectations just depend on the role. I recently turned down a research and writing role because it similarly would have been 39 hours of alone desk work. My current role is an internal consulting role (labor relations but at a high level so mainly strategy and only the really big things for actual bargaining) – it is typically 25+ hours of meetings with not a lot of solo work ( in intense times 40 hours of meetings) – and that’s how I prefer it!
Anonymous
I started in a task oriented job where I was in a group of people doing same task. The role shifted to 40 hours of meeting about how to optimize task, then 5 hours a week doing said task. I basically worked in lower level accounting. I much, much preferred doing the task (spreadsheets) but I’m good at collaborating so I worked myself into a consulting role where all I did was meetings – 12 years of total work experience. I’m looking for a task oriented job now but they’re pretty low pay and I’d need a nanny so that makes the salary hard to justify. See household manager discussion above: that’s essentially my role now…wish I got paid for it!
Anonymous
Skiers! I need new, warm (insulated) bibs. I’m 5’10” and about a size 10, with hips.
To celebrate getting back into the sport/losing the baby weight I got super cute montec bibs last year. Turns out, I didn’t notice they were uninsulated and they are too cold for chilly days skiing up north (but I have been loving them for spring skiing and this winter which feels like spring).
Option 1: add super warm base layers to make up for it. If this is the path, any suggestions?
Option 2: second set of bibs, this time insulated. I don’t really want to drop $500+ for HH but I don’t want target cheapies either. Montec now makes insulated pants- so I get the same ones in a different color? Other brand recs? I really need a 32” inseam or longer so that limits a few brands.
Anon
Under Armour cold gear is amazing for skiing as under layers. Super thin and yet so so so warm. I would buy a pair of their leggings and a cold gear turtleneck and see if those work. There’s a great secondhand market for under Armour if you want to test it out before committing to the full price.
ArenKay
Smart wool is much warmer for me than the synthetic base layers. My husband swears by Odlo.
Anon
I’m also a tall (5’11) skier and need long length ski pants. I have a collection of Eddie Bauer powder search insulated ski pants because they come in y’all’s. I don’t have bib recs, but if you want to explore Option 1, check out the Stio Fernos insulated knickers. On super cold days, I wear them with thin merino base layers capris underneath.
Elle
They’re not fancy, but I like lands end ski pants. They’re really forgiving in the hips and soooo reasonably priced compared to other ski clothes.
test run
I know you say you don’t want cheapies, but I am 5’10 (with long legs) size 8 and I bought these “Outdoor Gear Women’s Peak Bibs” (I bought a large and they fit pretty much perfectly and are long enough) and I love them. They’re really comfortable, warm, and completely waterproof as far as I can tell (I haven’t spent a lot of time rolling around in powder, but sat on a snow-covered bench at the apres ski bar for several hours without incident).
A
Merino base layers …smartwool is great. I’m not clear what you mean by bibs? I wear base layers, then a fleece layer on top and finally my ski jacket. Bottom…base layers and ski pants. But we ski in Dec/jan.
Ginger
I’m currently wearing a pair of inexpensive and kind of thin ski pants. This was an emergency purchase after I mistakenly packed by son’s ski pants who outweighs me by 100 lbs. Also, I had dropped about 15 lbs and my old ski pants were just too baggy. I wear REI silk long underwear with a thin Smartwool layer over that (top &bottom). I’m plenty warm and the layers are nice and thin yet effective.
Anon
I’ve been working so hard to manage my anxiety (exercise, limit caffeine, limit screen time, get outside, limit sugar, see friends, etc) and it’s mostly been helping but then today it just comes back full force for no real reason. I’m so tired of managing it and I just want it to go away. Sigh. I know there are much worse problems to have and medication is an option to explore, but I just needed to vent.
Anonymous
Just validating that anxiety is miserable. I’m starting medication because I’m exhausted.
Anon
I waited forever to start medication, and once I had, I mourned for all the time I had suffered trying to fix everything on my own. Please, try medication. It can really and truly change your life.
Anon
+1 to medication. I started it in early 2021, and look back and realize I would have probably had such an easier time had I started mid-college (I turn 40 this year). I take the lowest dosage possible – 25mg plus ashwagandha. I really think all of the things – therapy, exercise, self-care, medication are tools – and depending on your anxiety you may need a different mix of things at different times. For me, I think medication will always be part of the mix.
Curious
+1. I mourned most of my teens and twenties. I would have had so much more fun in college if my depression and anxiety were treated!
Ribena
I started medication at the start of November and it’s made such a huge difference! My baseline is just that bit higher and everything feels doable. Highly recommend if it’s possible for you. (I was resistant to trying it so spent a couple of months really trying to be consistent on the non pharma interventions like exercise etc first)
Anonymous
There’s a reason lots of us take the pills and it’s not because we are lazy!
anon
I hear you. I am on medication, but I’ve been on the same kind for several years and I suspect it’s stopped working. Blech. One more thing to deal with. I just want to feel peaceful most of the time.
Anon
Meds are the best! Some of us are just born with a different baseline. I mean, all of the things you are doing are fantastic, and I would recommend adding meditation/breathing exercises/various acute stress reducing techniques for high stress/anxiety moments. But that is best learned with a therapist for best bang for your buck.
But can I just say again…. meds are the best. And it doesn’t mean meds forever. Only thing I have found that makes it go away. Combining it with therapy is most effective.
We’re all different, and pretty much all of his will be on meds for something. Thank goodness we have good options!
pugsnbourbon
+ a million to “being born with a different baseline.” Both of my parents are anxious – I never stood a chance. Meds have been incredibly helpful. I hope you start feeling better soon, OP.
Senior Attorney
Oh, man, I hear you. Mr. Anxiety woke me up from a sound sleep last night for NO REASON. I was all, “Hey, Mr. Anxiety, what the he!! are you doing here?” and when I woke up this morning he was gone. But sheesh. It sucks.
Anon
That is me! I’m actually switching to a non litigation job to see if the decrease in conflict can help me better deal with my anxiety.
Anon
What meds? My doctor prescribed me a benzo and wow, it completely wipes me out. It quells a panic attack but leaves me so sleepy that I can’t work or drive.
pugsnbourbon
SSRIs have helped me with anxiety. I feel like they cut through the buzz of thoughts.
Anon
Ohhh…. what kind of doctor prescribed benzos? Primary care? Not a good medicine for anxiety long term, as it has a lot of side effects, his habit forming/highly addictive, and is really only recommended for severe anxiety these days… like if you are having an actual panic attack. Emergency anxiety, if you will. Or if you are claustrophic and need a brain MRI, or have severe fear of flying, and can’t fly without it.
The SSRI/SNRI family are the better meds for typical anxiety. A psychiatrist is a better place to start, if your PCP thought benzos were the answer. This isn’t the 1950’s/1960’s when benzos were prescribed like water. There are better/safer meds.
anon
I waited forever to start Lexapro for anxiety because I was too anxious to take it (lol), and I wish I had started sooner. I still have to do all the other things you mention, but my brain chemistry just wasn’t right, and the Lexapro has really helped with this. I just don’t get the same physical reaction to anxious thoughts any more.
eertmeert
It is so difficult. One of the best things I used was this workbook https://www.amazon.com/Anxiety-Phobia-Workbook-Edmund-Bourne/dp/1684034833/ref=sr_1_1 The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook. Very accessible and the last time i had a panic attack i pulled it out, went to a quiet space and was able to get through it using parts of the book I had bookmarked earlier. It increased my ability to self soothe. It has something for almost anyone.
I also use meds, which not only assist with anxiety flares but also help me manage my PMS so much better.
I hope you are able to feel some relief soon.
Anon
What do you order when you’re meeting friends out for drinks but don’t want to drink?
I’m cutting back on alcohol but have no desire to replace it with soda but I need to order something since we’re taking up a table. I’d normally just ask for seltzer water with lime, but they don’t charge for that at most places. If we’re meeting during a meal I’m happy to order food, but I don’t want to just order an app just to have ordered something.
The impetus behind my cutting back on drinking is mostly for heakth and financial reasons so replacing a beer with bar food (health and cost) or a soda (health) isn’t a great alternative.
Anom
If you’re meeting for “drinks”, if it’s only one other person (or two other people?), let them know you’re not drinking. I really don’t care whether my friend is drinking or not, but I’m going to feel terrible if I’m the only one drinking. I just want to hang out with you and will happy do something else. Drink tea, go for a walk, whatever.
So I guess my answer is that I would do something else.
Anon
Definitely let them know! When I was single I didn’t have a problem with meeting up with a guy who didn’t drink but I at least wanted a heads up if he suggested a bar. I’m fine with coffee or something.
Cora
I went on a date with a guy who didn’t drink and it worked out that I picked a soft of cafe/wine bar. The awkward part was later as the date went on we just needed to get out of the cold and sit, and the closest place was a bar, and I ordered a glass of wine but he didn’t get anything. But I did feel like we need to order something if we’re going to sit there, and we weren’t hungry.
anon
Same.
Anon
Same.
Anon
Bottled fizzy water (pellegrino, etc.) or ginger beer.
Anon
Ginger beer is essentially soda which she wants to avoid.
Anonymous
This is what I get too.
anon
Tonic with lime. Maybe with splash of ginger ale or cranberry. I ask for a low ball glass, too. It’s got a bit of a bite to it so I’m unlikely to suck it down like I would just straight water. Tend to drink at a more alcohol-drink pace.
Anonymous
Why do you need to get something that they’re going to charge you for? If the other person/people is/are also drinking, I personally wouldn’t be worried about ordering something that I have to pay for. I these cases, I do leave a generous tip, and the amount goes up depending on how long we’ve been there.
Another thing you could order is bitters and soda. Finally, I’d ask what the mocktail options are- I’ve been surprised at how many places have at least one mocktail on the menu that was clearly thought about and put on there intentionally.
Anon
I take a medication that makes anything carbonated taste vile, so I definitely have this problem and try to meet in places other than bars. When I can’t, most places that serve food will serve tea, though that’s definitely a different vibe than getting a drink. Or I just get food and plain water.
No Face
When I was knocked up I would request that the bartender do something fun without alcohol. They got really creative and I had a lot of delicious drinks to sip.
Anon
Coffee and tea are usually available at most restaurants. I like the idea of ginger beer if they have it.
Lily
Arnold Palmer! Or a cranberry juice cut with seltzer.
Anon
Iced tea, mocktail, coffee, etc. My family doesn’t drink alcohol, but it’s never been an issue to just get some non-alcoholic drink. I wouldn’t overthink it, personally.
LadyB
Ask them to make a mocktail version of one of their signature cocktails
Anon
I don’t drink and either order sparkling water (if they have it) or tonic with a lime. Sometimes I get charged and sometimes I don’t. I don’t care either way – I still tip when I don’t get charged. I always make sure I have cash for this specific reason if I am meeting people for drinks.
Anonymous
I’d just order the seltzer and leave a generous tip. No need to overthink it.
Anonymous
+1 – I don’t drink and this is what I always do.
OP
Thanks all for the advice!
I do drink and will continue to do so, but I often have 6 or so social plans a week and so don’t want to drink at all of them! My friends and I do plenty of non-drinking or non-bar socializing (workout classes, walks, tennis, hikes, skiing) but on weeks where I’m meeting people in bars a lot I want a non alcoholic option!
I’m open with my friends on days I don’t want to drink and it’s never an issue. Sometimes we change our plans and take a walk or something but that’s not shears feasible as some of our activities are bar based. I have a large social circle and so if I’m out 6 nights a week it might be with 6 different people or groups. So, no one else I’m out with is out as often and therefore they want to grab a drink and I don’t want to hold that from them.
For example: I’m meeting a friend who went to UGA tonight at a bar to watch the game. She doesn’t have any local UGA friends and I’m her only friend who likes football so I’m going with her. Another friend and I signed up for a series of craft workshops that happen at a brewery. Friends and I enjoy biking on a local nature trail to a brewery. A group of us goes to bar trivia every week. I play in a soccer league and the whole league goes to a bar after the games.
I’m fine drinking 4 or so nights a week but don’t want to do it 6-7 times, but a lot of the activities we do are centered around drinking.
If I meet a friend for happy hour or dinner, it’s usually somewhere with mocktails which I’m happy to try. But a lot of the aforementioned activities are at more casual bars or breweries and don’t have mocktail options.
Anon
What about drinking NA beer or cocktails? Doesn’t help with the cost aspect, but they are much more widely available than they’ve ever been.
Anon
Oh that’s a great idea! I really enjoy the taste of beer, red wine, and some cocktails so finding a NA beer is a great idea.
I would be fine with one NA beer and then water for the rest of the activity so it’s not free, but it’s cheaper and less caloric than getting 2-3 beers like I would if I was drinking that night.
Anom
OMG, you are so clearly in a different social environment than I am! I’m a 46 yr old, 2 elementary school kids, mostly WFH biglaw attorney. I consider it a good month if I make it out to see friends 2x over the course of the month during the week. I work, feed kids and put them to bed, then go back to work. Sometimes get to spend 10 min with DH until DD2 calls for attention post-bedtime. You are so putting me to shame!!!
OP
I am 28, single, and live in a city walking distance to several friends. I’m sure my life will look a lot more like yours in 18 years with a few kids!
OP
And – 2 young kids and a big job and you still make it out 2x a month to see friends during the week? I think you’re killing it!! In that era of life my parents did all of their socializing on the weekends.
Anonymous
Breweries generally pride themselves on offering interesting non or low alcoholic beer.
For well-stocked bars you can get a seltzer with cucumber, orange or celery bitters, garnished with cucumber, lime or aromatics if you want both non alcoholic and non sweet.
They also might have Seedlip, Ginish or similar to make non alcoholic classic cocktails.
If you want something less sweet but still a classic, a Virgin Mary with a few more shakes Tabasco is great. A high quality tonic water like Fever tree slimline is less sickly sweet without the gin, for a tonic and lime.
To elevate juices, have the bartender add fresh chili to tropical juices, or muddle mint for grapefruit or basil with apple.
If you’re open to a low alcohol drink, an easy hot toddy is an Irish coffee glass of hot water (if they have coffee maker with hot water) with half a shot of whisky or brandy. The alcohol will mostly evaporate, but the taste is a mellow toddy. You’ll be considered eccentric, but a casual bar will most likely have spirits and hot water.
As long as you tip as if you have bought a glass of wine, you’ll probably be fine with seltzer, though.
NYCer
Pellegrino water or iced tea. Or even hot herbal tea depending on the type of place we are at (clearly not at a dive bar, for example).
Anon
Seltzer and cranberry is my go-to. I seldom drink but like having something in my hand other than tap water.
Trish
Seltzer and cranberry!
Team Mocktail
Mocktails! They are so fun and some of them are surprisingly good. And I think they make the other person/people at the table feel less weird about being the only one drinking. It feels like you are getting something out of the bar/restaurant instead of just ordering an iced tea or something.
Dress Me
Has anyone come across any sweaters that would be cute first date sweaters? Maybe a wrap sweater or v-neck cardigan that can be worn without a tank under it? I love my oversized sweaters but I’m thinking those aren’t great for dates. Any recommendations?
Elle
I love the & other stories wrap cardigan!
NYCer
Check out Sezane. They have lots of sweaters that would for this.
Anon
I was going to suggest Sezane too!
dear reader
Love this in the dragonfruit color –
https://www.jcrew.com/us/p/womens/categories/clothing/t-shirts-and-tank-tops/long-sleeve/formknit-long-sleeve-wrap-top/BM345?color_name=dragon-fruit&N=LARGE&sale=true&noPopUp=true&srccode=Paid_Search%7CSmart_Shopping%7CGoogle%7CSS_ACQ_XPROD_SHIRTSxxxxxxx_EVG_ROAS_XXX_COUSA_EN_EN_A_CREW_GO_SH_SSC_xxxxxxxxxx,shop_shirts_x_xxx,PRODUCT_GROUP,71700000073582962,58700006374250903,p57824858941&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Paid_Search&utm_campaign=SS_ACQ_XPROD_SHIRTSxxxxxxx_EVG_ROAS_XXX_COUSA_EN_EN_A_CREW_GO_SH_SSC_xxxxxxxxxx,shop_shirts_x_xxx&utm_content=Shopping&NoPopUp=True&gclid=CjwKCAiAk–dBhABEiwAchIwkQ2_DaUR5qdSXrW9cqVg4cJpV-4R_ZoeaYApTYF02I68DfPEFNJzphoCsGMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Anon
Banana Republic and Loft both have cute wrap sweaters on sale now.
thanksgiving anxiety
Aritzia plunge cardigan
Anon
I love a button up cardigan with a few top buttons undone or open with a lace cami underneath. I also wear a low cut check sweater with a push up bra. A lot of my wearers are from Express.
Piper Dreamer
Estate lawyers in NYC/Westchester? Does anyone have a good estate lawyer that they would recommend? I have a large (ish) inheritance that will come through over the next year or so and want to hold the cash in a trust for my children. Also hoping to set up a postnup for that portion.
Thanks!!
Anon
I do this type of work and have an office in NYC. If you post a burner I can email you, however, the best plan is if a large inheritance is left to you in trust (structured that way) rather than if you receive it and put it into a trust. So it may best to work this into the plan of the person leaving the inheritance.
ALT
Just venting that I am waiting on a repair service that gave me a 8-noon arrival window, called this morning to confirm and said the guy would call 30 mins prior to arrival, and have not shown up yet. I know that it’s not noon yet but still…I hate just waiting around for people!!!
Anon
This is very frustrating but can you multitask? Get some work or cleaning done while you wait?
ALT
I’ve been working…I also tidied up everything I could without the appliance that needs to be repaired. Thankfully the guy just arrived (very late but whatever) so I can continue my cleaning rampage when he’s done!
joan wilder
Where are my royal watchers at? Can we talk about the latest interviews/revelations? I don’t get going public with this at all, and the review in the Guardian sad it best for me… just sad all around.
Anon
How, immigration-wise, is Prince Harry even in the US? And apparently allowed to work or earn income (which a tourist visa doesn’t let you do)? It is so, so hard for skillled workers to immigrate and bring family over. Him getting to just waltz in, set up shop, and commence whining is running me the wrong way. I get that his wife and kids are citizens. But I’m struggling with my basic immigration law knowledge to justify him getting to cut to the front of the line.
Anonymous
He likely has an O-1 visa which you can Google. Used for athletes sometimes, executives, celebrities, etc.would be very easy to make the case.
This article speculates a bit: https://norrismclaughlin.com/blogs/ib/category/prince-harry-u-s-permanent-residency-united-states-citizenship
Anonymous
Oh please.
anon
I’m not an immigration lawyer, but my guess would be a spousal visa or a visa for rich investors. There’s also the visa for foreigners with extraordinary ability, but I would be disappointed if being born to a royal family counts as an ability.
Anon
If anything is conclusively settled at this point, it is that Prince Harry is not a person of extraordinary ability.
Anon
I don’t “follow” them but I read the news. I didn’t have an opinion on him before, but now I definitely think the guy is below average in emotional maturity. Probably not too bright either.
Anon
Can’t he just get a green card based on his marriage?
Anon
Marriage based green card petition is my guess!
Cora
This is a great point.
I’ve also been wondering, generally, what Prince Harry’s qualifications are to like get a normal job. Apparently he didn’t do great on pilot exams, I don’t think he went to college, does he have like a vocation or skill set or career?
anon
I think that explains some of this media stuff as well – $100M contract with netflix, selling a book. With no degree or no skills, what kind of job can he get. And even if someone hired him, he’s so famous that he’d hardly be seen a normal colleague/employee, though I guess WFH could eliminate the issue of security at an office building and the safety/privacy of other employees…
I have to say though that I’m surprised Meghan hasn’t gone back to acting.
Anon
He does something for a mental health startup that either should get its $ back or is a total sham or cannot for love of g-d vet people.
anon
Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that a while back. TBH, I assumed he wasn’t doing anything substantive and they hired him to help get their public profile up.. and I’m sure they didn’t foresee…. all of this coming.
I remember seeing a snippet of him talking about his experiences in therapy (I think it was called the person you can’t see or something?) and it resonated with me because at the time, I was starting to look for a therapist. So I can see that startup thinking having someone like Harry on their team would also help destigmatize therapy.
I would be surprised if he was still on their payroll.
Monday
My guess is that Meghan does want to get back into acting, but she’s not getting roles. I think she did say something in her Cut interview that made it sound like she was open to getting calls…and it sounds like they haven’t come.
With her public profile (and probably her expectations too) she can’t really just go back to something on par with Suits. But she’s probably not being considered for Peak TV or Oscar film roles either.
Anon
In response to Monday, I think they need to disappear for awhile before she can resume any type of career in acting. I’m a little burnt out on them/disgusted by the book/media circus that they created. I wouldn’t want to watch anything that she has an acting role in.
Anon
The man inherited $60 million. He doesn’t need a normal job. He could live comfortably off the interest ($2.4 million annual – conservatively), he just doesn’t want to .
It happens
Not specific to Harry: There are many different kinds of non-immigrant visas that allow foreigners to work from the “I’m here for a conference for three days and yep I’m getting paid” to “I’m a Singaporean working for McKinsey for two years in Dallas” to “I’m Adele and will do a Vegas residency,” or the visa Melania Trump received to work as a model. There are visas for the famous baseball players, musicians, professors, fashion designers, etc. who come to work in the U.S., in addition to the special skills your computer programmer might have for the (in)famous H1B program. (Not to be confused with the H2A visas for, say, strawberry pickers.) A good lawyer will advise and process paperwork, and if necessary, request an adjustment from one to another as needed. In theory a person here on a nonimmigrant visa can also be in process for an immigrant visa, as might happen when Swiss Banker Dude is here with his bank for 2 years and marries US Citizen New Spouse, and they choose to petition for his immigrant visa and future green card while he’s totally legally still working with his firm in nonimmigrant status.
Seventh Sister
He could have an investment-based visa, and he is married to a US citizen, so that’s another avenue for getting a visa. Our immigration system is messed up (both of my brothers-in-law are immigrants who waited forever to get visas and then citizenship), but money always, always helps.
To be frank, I’m not really that interested in the whole thing, but my mom is SO invested in “Meghan Markle is a terrible person” that I find myself reading the news coverage.
Anon
You can get citizenship by bringing money and jobs. I know a .com millionaire who was able to immigrate by founding a company and hiring a few people. But yeah, his wife is a citizen. He should be allowed by that very fact alone.
Anon
OMG right here. I’m currently reading Tina Brown’s The Palace Papers, and it really hones in (to me) on how TRF is just…rotten to the core. I am sure some of my bias is coming from the fact that 1. I’m U.S. Born and 2. My family is from a country that the British tore apart during their colonial reign, so there is a lot of Anti-British/Anti-British Monarchy sentiment in my family. Sure, even the worst of the family members have redeeming qualities, but sheezus – all the tabloid coordination, backbiting, and putting aside feelings/emotional support for “duty”.
It’s just very hard to comprehend that TRF – including Harry and Meghan – all truly believe what they do, and how they live is so much “better” than the rest of us plebes given all the crap.
Anon
I haven’t followed the royals in years (though I did wake up at 4am in high school to watch the Will/Kate wedding) and I never watched Suits so I hardly know anything about current-day Harry and nothing at all about Meghan. Absolutely no skin in this game.
But, we’re between Bachelor seasons and I love low stakes (to me) drama and so I’m starting to follow this saga. Holy heck does he need way more and way better therapy!!! It sounds like he has not at all coped with his mothers death and a lot of his issues still stem from that.
I don’t get what his end game is (I don’t see any reconciliation happening now!). I don’t think Charles ever was or ever would be the father Harry (or anyone) would want; seems cold and distant. I had mistakenly thought the brothers were close but do believe Harry saying that they weren’t. I do think he just wanted to be a soldier who partied hard and would have been happier and less bonkers if that could have happened, but his position interferes with that.
I do think leaving the family amicably and slipping off to a normal life was his best bet but that’s been ruined. I do think Meghan was probably a terrible fit for Royal life but also that she wasn’t appropriately prepared for it. I think if he was still single or if he was married to someone else then this wouldn’t be happening. Not saying it’s her fault but her existence in the family and the UK seemed to set off this sh!tstorm and then he’s felt the need to defend her.
Obviously the press was terrible and racist and I’m sure many members of the family are too. But H&M seem to conflate the actual issues like racism with non issues (many of the Kate complaints).
I just get the impression that she’s a bad match for his family and his life and as a result a crap ton of drama has been stirred out and mountains have been made of mole hills. This happens frequently with non famous couples, we just don’t hear about it, and frequently ends in estrangement or divorce.
Basically everything has been handled terribly and while H&M I’m sure had valid gripes, they look ridiculous now.
Anon
I think everyone thinks Harry would have been better off staying in the Army, but its his own fault he didn’t. (Andrew, for example, was in the Navy for 20 years, while Harry was in the Army for ten. William, for his part, was in the military for 7 + 3 years as a civilian air ambulance pilot + 4 in university, so it always makes me laugh when Harry tries to say he’s soooo much more normal than the rest of his family because he spent so much time amongst the rabble in the Army.) He eventually was at the move up or move out stage, and couldn’t pass tests to become a full pilot (as opposed to co-pilot) and also couldn’t pass the test to move up in seniority. The Army gave him sort of a fluffy position as coordinator of large events but he didn’t like having a desk job so chose to do full-time royal work instead. I think it very much would have benefitted him to have the structure of the Army or to retrain as a civilian air ambulance pilot like Will did, but for whatever reason Harry didn’t choose that route. And as we’ve seen, he has a very hard time accepting responsibility for the consequences of any of his actions.
Anonymous
There’s an old article from 2005 recirculating about how he alleged didn’t even pass some part of the military entrance test but was passed through because they couldn’t exactly not take him.
anon
Seriously! This dude has a number of childhood wounds that clearly have not been healed. I watched the H&M documentary and came away with the same feeling about her. They both have been deeply wounded by their father figures. I think Harry could’ve lived a private life, if he hadn’t decided to air all his grievances to the world. (But then again, he needs $$$.) As a couple, they’ve made some spectacularly bad choices. I fully believe that the RF and the British media treated M terribly, but at this point, they’re not exactly helping their own cause.
Anonymous
Funny, I’m not following or familiar with the Whole Story [tm], but I watched part of an episode H&M out of sheer desperate boredom one night. Your take seems entirely accurate. I will say: A cousin of mine was about the same age as Harry when her mom (my aunt) died. My cousin has done a TON of therapy and she seems very mature and is a successful business owner in her early 30s. She also did some horrible things to her adoptive mom as a teenager and did drugs for a while and was estranged from my family (which I think is completely justified but just giving the facts that it’s not all therapy and healing and rainbows). I seriously think Harry turned out pretty well considering he was thrust into stardom by a hugely traumatic life event. I just wish he and Meagan had faded quietly into private life. Sometimes screaming that you’re in the right and the other person is the @sshole, just makes you seem like more of an @sshole.
Anonymous
The keeping of gifts and saying she gave them out to the women staff so it was okay made me realize they do not understand the system at all. You can’t accept gifts for a politically neutral role! There’s literally a handbook about it. And he’s like ‘shrug’.
Anon
One of the reporters talking about the bullying claims mentioned months ago that there was strife around Meghan accepting freebies when her staff told her that wasn’t allowed. And Harry just goes and confirms it in his book, being like “but Meghan was so nice! She gave the smaller freebies to the lowly staff members who should have appreciated them!” Maybe they would have appreciated more respect from their boss, but ok.
Anonymous
It puts the employees in a really tight spot because technically they are also bound by the same no accepting freebies rules.
Anon
I came across a snippet that said that Harry used all of Meghan’s laughing gas while Meghan was in labor with Archie. Why would you admit that unless you want to seem terrible? There is nothing cute about that.
Anon
OMFG — I’d have wacked him with the canister (OTOH, I’ve birthed a baby and do not recall this being offered, let along in the room). How could you take a med away from the person who needs it?! He is such a trainwreck, I can’t believe that she had another kid with that trainwreck. He needs better therapy and might be the biggest Tradwick of all time.
Anon
Laughing gas is popular in crunchy mom circles as an alternative to epidurals. Some people see it as more “natural” than epidurals. I’m not really sure why. I guess the theory is its less likely to be transmitted to the baby.
Anon
I’m not a crunchy person but thought about this as an epidural substitute because it would have meant being able to walk/move around during labor and after the birth.
Anon
Maybe someone from the UK can weigh in but I get the impression the gas is offered by the NHS to avoid epidurals so it’s a standard, popular offering. I would assume she could have easily asked for more but still, why would it even occur to you to touch someone else’s medicine in the hospital?
Monday
I hadn’t heard that, but for someone who was told from birth that he is innately above everyone else, I’m not surprised. He’s not familiar with rules that actually exist for a reason, or worrying about someone else’s needs taking precedence over his own (even his wife while in labor, apparently!)
Cb
Super normal in the UK. They gave it to me (no epidural) and I was like “can I please have some real drugs in my drip?” No joy.
Anon
The snarking has jumped the shark for me. It feels sort of like Kanye. Harry appears genuinely mentally ill and making fun of him isn’t fun anymore. I hope he gets help, but I think any hope of reconciliation with his family is gone at this point. I wouldn’t be able to get past this if I were Will or Charles.
Anon
The conversation he shared with William and Charles directly after burying Phillip, with William essentially begging Harry to talk and swearing on Diana’s life that William loves Harry and wants him to be happy, is 1) a horrifically invasive thing to share and 2) reminds me so much of my dealings with mentally ill family members and the total desperation to break through before I accepted that they needed to be in a position to get help themselves. It was heartbreaking to read and I am still in shock Harry thinks he could ever reconcile after sharing something like that.
Anonymous
This. So much this. It was deeply wrong that he included that and expects to reconcile.
Anon
Kind of agree — could someone pls turn off his mike?
Anonymous
This. The fact that he lays out in detail private conversations in the books but then said that he hopes any conversations he has with them would remain private makes me think he’s lost the plot.
Anon
This! 100%. I don’t think they have a clear understanding of their objectives. Do you want to publicly trash your family in permanent ways ie: publishing a tell all book or do you want to repair your strained relationship with them? Can’t have it both ways.
Lily
I keep seeing this take a lot – that if he wanted to heal the rift, why is he doing this, and “I wouldn’t be able to get past this if I were Will or Charles.” Let me flip the script there – if you were Harry, taking him at his word, would you be able to “get past” what his father and brother have done to him? Lying about him to the press in an effort to make themselves look better? I think no one wants to admit the possibility that William is a raging a-hole (we all know that Charles is) and Kate not much better. This is coming from someone who has followed Kate/her fashion since they got engaged and would still like to think that she is genuinely a nice and accepting person.
Anon
If Harry could produce any evidence of the conspiracy against him and Meghan besides grimaces and childhood grievances, I’d have more sympathy. But his logic is circular – William didn’t give Meghan a chance because of the tabloid reports about her, but he was the one leaking negative things? How could William judge her poorly based on the tabloids if the tabloids only started reporting bad things about her because of William? Harry’s version of the world also involves ignoring the way any other woman dating or marrying into the family was treated by the tabloids, in many ways worse than Meghan. Kate had her phone hacked 155 times and was the main tabloid fixture in the era of upskirt photos! But somehow everything bad printed about Meghan was leaked by the family? If so, why didn’t they leak the reports of bullying when they happened? And look, maybe they are a-holes but at some point, right around the time you’re printing in a book that your brother is cut and you found his hairloss alarming because it made him look less like mummy, you lose the higher ground.
Anon
Right but if H wasn’t able to get past it then why is he saying he wants to reconcile?
FWIW my view is that everyone involved is an a-hole at this point and some are worse than others. There is no hero in this story.
anon
I think this where I’m landing too. I started out as a fan of Kate, which morphed into a general royal family watching enthusiasm and learning about stuff before my time (eg Diana, Margaret’s torturous love life, Philip’s family background), and eventually petered off into “ohhh drama, time for popcorn!”
-I can’t remember where, but I saw a list of books written about Harry by people who’ve never met him, including those who are part of the Royal Rota (I think that’s the BRF version of WH press corps? unclear), so I can sort of see the logic he might as well make money off talking about his life, because others are going to anyway. But then I wish he’d say that. Not hard to start off a book talk with “Everyone else has been writing about me/my life for ages, I figured I might as well put it out there myself since I lived it and only I can say how certain things made me feel”
-Both brothers (and wives’) respective fanbases are way too invested in this. Based off what I have seen on Twitter (which I wish I could delete, alas, I use it as part of my day to day for work), the “Sussex Squad” and royal family fans seem to think their chosen couple can do no wrong. Which is ridiculous. I do think a decent amount of anti-monarchists comprise the Sussex squad and they’re probably disappointed at the bit when Harry says he still believes in the monarchy, but I’m not sure what else they expected from a man born and raised in the freakin’ royal family. Will & Kate’s fans generally refuse to acknowledge any racism on the part of the British media and how Meghan was received in the UK, place all the blame of whatever Harry does on Meghan (I personally think he would’ve left even if she didn’t marry him, but the exit would’ve looked different), paint Meghan as a promiscuous gold digger, and seem to think “American actress” is a good insult. Meghan and Harry’s fans on the other hand seem to think that the couple is the pinnacle of true love, that Will and Kate’s marriage is just for show and he’s been cheating on her with some aristocrat named Rose, that not sharing lip gloss makes someone mean. Neither fanbase is right… they all suck IMO.
-I can understand that Harry might feel like he’s never gotten to speak his truth. Some of the stuff he’s revealing, such as the physical altercation where William pushed him and releasing a statement about the dynamic between the brothers that Harry says he never signed onto show us that there are situations where the Sussexes were not treated well. I also can imagine watching your pregnant wife struggle with suicidal ideation is heartbreaking and might spur an overprotective response to any future situations where he didn’t feel she was being protected enough. However, there is still something to be said for knowing your truth, drawing your boundaries with family, and leaving royal life without broadcasting all details to the world. I think Harry is thinking about what he feels is fair (stuff that isn’t true about me was front page, so I want my rebuttal and others shortcomings to also be front page) rather than thinking more strategically about how this will play out in the public eye and make him & Meghan look petty, rather than vindicated.
-I think the others in the family who aren’t the main royals also probably fall somewhere in the middle… You have Andrew’s daughter Eugenie who is both featured in the Netflix series as having visited them in California and hanging out with Meghan & Harry as a couple before their relationship became public and showing up to royal family events (Christmas church walk, the carol event). Especially if the allegations of Charles/William briefing against the others is true, I’m sure some of them have been thrown under the bus to save them, but also perhaps to save Harry before he left? A lot of them also have the lavish lifestyles they have largely or partially because the crown/monarch owns their homes and such (I think it’s called grace and favor homes), so I doubt they’d go public with any discontent if they felt it.
-My conclusion even before all of this was that entire family sucked. And all this book is doing is giving me a chance to eat popcorn and add additional specific examples of why they are awful and the institution should be abolished… if you want drama, you don’t need to support it with taxpayer funds.
Elle
I think my issue with this take is that if they’re as awful as he says why does he keep saying he wants to reconcile and isn’t willing to give up his title?
Anonymous
This take right here. You’re saying they blocked help for your suicidal wife but you want to work with them again? Why? Something is off.
Anon
I think William probably is an a-hole. I’m not saying he’s a great person, and not sure how him being an a-hole is inconsistent with what I said about Harry being mentally ill. Personally I have a higher opinion about Kate, although I admit that I don’t really know her because she hasn’t led a public life the way Willi and Harry have.
I don’t think Harry needs to reconcile with them – I think it would be a perfectly valid choice to believe he and Meghan are happier and healthier going low or no contact with them. But he keeps saying he wants to reconcile and in that case WTF is he doing?!
More Sleep Would Be Nice
FWIW I think William and Charles are raging a-holes (and Kate likely not a lot better). Harry clearly is damaged, needs better therapy, and also has been told since birth he’s better than everyone, and is married to someone who is dealing with their own stuff/enabling/wanted to be famous and influential, so here we are.
Anonymous
Agree that it is super sad and he had it tough on a personal basis But two things bother me:
1. Bringing in other people/info who didn’t need to be there – that poor disabled woman at his school, his frozen d1ck at the wedding, his brother’s d1ck and Courtney Cox and Caroline Flack to name a few.
2. This garbage about wanting a ‘part time’ Commonwealth job. It’s not a thing that exists! It is a loose association of states – some of have King as head of state, some don’t, one isn’t even a former British colony. There is no job- stop making it up and making it sound like you all rule us. Canada has a perfectly capable Indigenous woman as our resident head of state. Most of the countries that still have the King do so because there is no domestic political agreement about what to replace it with or a complicated domestic constitutional amending process so no appetite to mess with the system. The Commonwealth references are just about trying to get free security as IPP for some kind of made up ‘part time’ job.
Anon
I still feel that the press was and is absolutely horrible to Megan, it was in no way deserved, and it’s undoubtedly at the direction of the crown.
Burn it all down.
Anonymous
Like how does the press being awful to Meghan mean that he has to have Caroline Flack’s name in his mouth years later in an autobiography. Her publicist said he is basically doing to her memory the exact thing he complains about the press doing to Meghan.
And Chelsey Davy and Cressida Bonas probably like to be excluded from the narrative as well.
Anon
Yeah, this. Two things can be true! 1) the press was awful to Meghan and 2) Harry and Meghan are acting batsh1t and wildly oversharing now.
Also while I don’t disagree that racism is a factor in how the press (and likely some family) treated Meghan, the press was objectively worse to Kate. Her phone was hacked and nude photos of her were published! Nothing that personal or invasive was ever done to Meghan. She also got Royal protection and PR support much earlier into her relationship than Kate did.
Anonymous
Based on what evidence?
Anon
Harry keeps saying it was at the direction of the family, although its unclear who, mostly mentioning Camilla? But he has never pointed to any specific story other than 20 years ago details of first meeting between Camilla and William leaked (which her private secretary took credit for at the time, saying she had told her husband) and then rants about the “Meghan making Kate cry” story not being correct, but hasn’t ever said that it was Kate who leaked anything, just that his office refused to refute it. Which would have made it a bigger story and, as we’ve seen play out with this whole debacle, sometimes silence is the right choice. No one would be talking about this story if Meghan and Harry didn’t keep bringing it up. It’s also unclear how he would be sure that a woman who gave birth 3 weeks ago didn’t cry, and why the myriad of people who would be at a bridesmaid’s fitting wouldn’t be the ones talking to the press.
anon
I think if KP can issue a statement to deny that Kate had botox (which btw I’m disinclined to believe, Botox is so commonplace these days and I personally think both Kate and Meghan utilize the full suite of beauty tools at their disposal as women in the public eye) – which I consider trivial – they can correct the record on who made whom cry, which is indication of how one treats other.
Anon
It wasn’t that she had Botox ever, it was denying when asked by the NY Post that she was a client of a specific dermatologist using her image as advertising. Link here: https://pagesix.com/2019/07/24/palace-denies-kate-middleton-got-baby-botox/
They did the same for Meghan when her image was used to advertise weight loss drugs. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markles-war-scammers-who-18891800
Anon
Look up the royal rota. In exchange for increased access to the palace, they accept that the palace press offices can direct what they cover and what they don’t. This is extremely well documented. And yes, the rota press went after Megan mercilessly.
I’m really shocked that so many supposedly modern, successful women are such royalists!
Anon
You don’t need to be a royalist to think Harry and Meghan are lying narcissists who will say whatever they want to suit their narrative at the moment. I’m not a stan of the royal family and I’m pretty sure William and Charles are bad people, but Meghan saying that someone told her people in Africa were celebrating her marriage like they celebrated Mandela’s freedom when it’s demonstrably untrue makes her look like a raging narcissist with a wildly inflated sense of self. Even if the guy told her that (he denies it) comparing oneself to Mandela in an interview is a real Choice with a capital C.
Anon
The rota system was put in place because of the absolute insanity in the 80s and 90s covering Princess Diana, as the equivalent of the White House Press Corps. It gives certain publications access to events with the agreement that they distribute the materials so that not every publication has to send its own reporter to every event. I’m not saying the system is ideal, but it does not exist so that the palace can direct coverage. Here’s an explainer from the time Harry and Meghan announced their departure: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a30480923/prince-harry-megahn-markle-royal-rota-system/. (They noted in their leaving statement they would now engage with grassroots media, which I suppose means ITV, CBS, and ABC.)
Note that, at the time, the British National Union of Journalists said “The rota system is not perfect, but it does allow UK media to cover the British Royal Family – an institution maintained by the public purse. We cannot have a situation where journalists writing about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex can only do so if they have the royal seal of approval.”
Anonymous
This. H/M do not object to press coverage – they just want to prevent negative coverage
Anonymous
Royals can direct the number of people who attend events based on a rotation system. The photographers/videographers who attends the event send the images to everyone in the pool. Royal family cannot direct what they write because the UK also has freedom of the press. H/M wanted to allow only certain press. That doesn’t fly in the UK public service (which the royals are) anymore than it would be okay for Biden to ban Fox News from the White House (as much as he might want to).
I suspect a lot of the leaks come from staffers. I’ve worked in the civil service – there is a lot of talk about which politicians are nice and who are jerks. I expect it’s the same with the staffers and the royals.
This is why there is 1 photographer and 1 video camera when the Wales kids go to school on the first day and not like a ton of paparazzi at Meghan alleges would happen if they lived in the UK.
I’m not saying the coverage wasn’t racist at times – it was. But Kate got it way way worse than H/M seem to acknowledge and a lot of the coverage was classist more so than racist. UK has a much bigger classism issue vs racism issue.
Anon
I completely disagree that Kate got it worse than Megan.
Anon
You think Kate having her phone hacked and nude photos leaked isn’t worse than what happened to Meghan??? People said mean things about both of them (and certainly racism was a factor in Meghan’s case) but the things that happened to Kate are so much worse than just negative stories.
Anonymous
Meghan Stan much? I didn’t say she had it worse. I said it was worse than H/M acknowledge. It’s hard to compare the two because M had nastier headlines but had physical protection much earlier and much less physical threat without bodyguards around.
Kate had photographers waiting outside her private apartment who shouted horrible stuff at her to get a reaction, and topless pictures published from a long lense photographer on vacation, she had her phone hacked 155 times, she was chased in the streets by photographers including one incident where she was cornered and spit on.
H/M make it sound like the headlines said ‘waity Katy’ a few times – it was way worse than that.
Anon
To the anon who is underplaying Kate’s experience: here’s a (very blurry) video of her begging paparazzi to leave her be (one of them, when leaving, sarcastically calls her “your highness” even though it was years before she married) https://twitter.com/isaguor/status/1573465321557590040
Here’s her 25th birthday, where there were a larger group of photographers than usual (though there was always at least one) and they swarmed her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhByqJeXNag
Here’s a Dutch documentary where they follow a paparazzi who is waiting outside her home, where you can watch her hold her umbrella low to try to avoid them capturing her face. The photographer laments that she didn’t fall because that would have sold better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmJElOdzXE&t=8s. In Part 2 of that video, an expert says if she would just “give them a little twirl” they wouldn’t chase her for pictures.
Here are transcripts, read aloud in court, of voicemails left on Kate’s phone by William when her phone was hacked by the tabloids: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/10528002/Transcripts-of-the-hacked-voicemails-left-by-Prince-William.html
Not to mention the photos of her taken from a mile away when she was on a private vacation with her husband printed in various international tabloids, the way they spoke about her, her mother, and her sister for years, the Australian radio hosts who called the hospital for her medical information (after which, the nurse who was tricked took her own life).
The media also undermined the severity of her HG – here’s a description of the reaction from one article: “Snark-infested Gawker predictably reported that “Kate was admitted to the hospital today with ‘hyperemesis gravidarum,’ which is what they call regular old morning sickness when you are a princess.” But they weren’t alone. Led by a glib Barbara Walters, reporting live as she read the palace statement from her Blackberry, the women of “The View” openly mocked the condition they couldn’t pronounce and cut off a nurse in the audience who attempted to respond to Walters’ less-than-earnest inquiry into HG’s seriousness. (To date, producers have ignored a deluge of negative feedback on The View’s message boards from HG women calling for a retraction or a conciliatory educational segment.) Stephen Colbert, who might’ve been expected to mock the media’s insensitivity, instead joined the chorus.”
I was around and royal watching at the time, and most of the worst articles aren’t on the internet anymore, but it was constant snark on Kate from the moment they left university, including regular “which aristocrat will Will marry after he’s done with this low class girl” articles. Meghan has clickbait, social media, and racism and xenophobia to deal with, but I think its far from clear that she has had it worse with the media than Kate did.
Anonymous
Have you looked it up? It’s literally just a rotation of photographers/journalists who attend events. It requires them to share images to the whole pool so you have like two people watching the Wales kids on their first day of school, not 40 people. UK has freedom of the press so they can limit by agreement the number of attendees but they cannot control what they say.
Kate got hounded early on because she was not given official status like Meghan got so was not protected.
A
Harry has committed harrykiri. He so inconsistent, it’s unbelievable. Practically a liar.
And I say this as WOC with no patience for the royal family. I just like to see the hats, clothes and bling.
Anon
Chapter 13 here. Please keep me in your thoughts today as I navigate possibly lowering my highest household bill. If this works out, I’ll be able to save a substantial amount per month (and will get to keep it because my chapter 13 plan is already paying back 100%). Good vibes, please!
Anon
Good luck!
Anon
I was thinking about you this weekend and hoping you would continue to come back and update us! Good vibes sent your way!
Senior Attorney
VIBES!!!
Jo March
good luck!!
ArenKay
Good luck! You are making great progress!
anonshmanon
rooting for you!
Anon
Help me plz! I have a BFF’s milestone birthday celebration on Saturday. I have a backup outfit but was purchased when I was a bit heavier and I want something more flattering. Live in a major city so can go to pretty much any store.
Dress code is cocktail attire – she’s rented out a place for dinner, drinks, and dancing. I’m 5’5, rectangle, short-waisted and no torso, size 7-8 (10 would be too big, 6 too tight). Would prefer some sleeves, (short or 3/4 ok), and a v-neck, square, or scoop neckline but open to that.
TIA!
Some suggestions for a cocktail dress
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/shani-scalloped-lace-cocktail-dress/5864073
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/shani-georgette-floral-appliqu-long-sleeve-dress/6443727
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/halston-evening-falan-long-sleeve-sequin-wrap-cocktail-dress/6425302
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/lauren-ralph-lauren-womens-jersey-surplice-cocktail-dress?ID=14758248&CategoryID=260267
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/adrianna-papell-womens-metallic-dress?ID=14630669&tdp=cm_app~zMCOM-NAVAPP~xcm_zone~zPDP_ZONE_B~xcm_choiceId~zcidM06MYD-f35110ab-e1d2-4838-b5d4-5a725913e30c%40HB1%40Customers%2Balso%2Bloved%245449%2414630669~xcm_pos~zPos13~xcm_srcCatID~z5449
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/lauren-ralph-lauren-crinkle-georgette-surplice-dress?ID=14593080&CategoryID=5449&isDlp=true&isDlp=true
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/j-kara-womens-embellished-v-neck-flutter-sleeve-dress?ID=14997393&tdp=cm_app~zMCOM-NAVAPP~xcm_zone~zPDP_ZONE_B~xcm_choiceId~zcidM06MYD-bd922321-8a35-4059-8548-de429c68c227%40HB1%40Customers%2Balso%2Bloved%245449%2414997393~xcm_pos~zPos1~xcm_srcCatID~z5449
Advice for car purchase and driving teens?
I’m wondering if folks who have been through having a driving teen (or who were driving teens) can give me some thoughts on car purchases for that phase of life…
My oldest is 11, so will be learning to drive in 5 years or so. My husband and I tend to be the kind who drive our cars a very long time, and our current cars are 20 and 12 years old respectively and will need to be replaced soon- within the next year or two. On the one hand we have three kids so are contemplating a mini-van and/or a SUV with a third row. But we also realize whatever we buy will probably be what our kids learn to drive on, so maybe the mini-van/large SUV is not the best option. Whatever the new cars are, they need to fit a carseat and a booster in the back for the two younger kids. Part of me thinks one of the cars should just be something smaller, but I’m wondering if I’m overthinking this to bring the future driving teen into the equation? Also- normally for myself I would buy used, but would there be more safety features in a newer vehicle?
I would love to hear about the factors people have considered when buying a car with a driving teen on the horizon.
Thanks!
Anon
Just buy a reasonable used car when the time comes. Make a decision for Now You instead of Five Years From Now You.
Anon
This exactly. Kids make do with driving minivans. You can buy an appropriate used car in five years.
I have idiosyncratic views on safety features (beyond crumple zones, air bags, etc.), which is that they can be used to paper over bad driving. If you are teaching someone to drive, have them learn without all of that, so good habits become ingrained. Then when they have the extra safety features (blind spot indicators, whatever else), those safety features will be used as intended, ie as a supplement to an alert and competent driver.
Anon
I think you’re overthinking and should get the vehicle that suits your needs. You may not want to give that car to your child in 5 years. Consider that insurance will be sky high for a new driver, and a large SUV or minivan will cost significantly more to insure than a small sedan. I saved for a cheap, old used car paid for in cash once I got my license.
Seventh Sister
If you’re going to have to replace two cars soon, maybe think about getting one smaller car and one big car. The safety features on newer cars are really helpful (the back up beeping stuff, cameras, etc.), but I don’t think it’s a bad idea to learn to drive an older car without these features. If the smaller kids aren’t going to be in the smaller car very often, I’d get a carseat and a booster that are adequate as opposed to the top-of-the-line type carseats.
FWIW, I know plenty of people (including myself) who drove a minivan as one of our first cars. I wouldn’t have taken the driving test in it, but most are on a car platform so it drives more like a car than most SUVs.
There are so many variables that I would get the cars you want and not worry too much about the driving teen. What if a relative or friend suddenly asks you if you want their old car? What if your teenager doesn’t want to drive? I live in a city and it’s not terribly uncommon for teenagers to just bike or take public transportation instead of learning to drive.
brokentoe
This from the folks who do the crash tests for all vehicles in the US: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehicles-for-teens
brokentoe
Also, keep in mind that the older the car is, the fewer safety features it will have (e.g., all the airbags, ABS, ESC, BLIS, etc.) and as the drivers with the least experience and highest crash rates, teens need every advantage they can get. With regard to vehicle size, understand that the most popular vehicles on the road are now SUVs and pick ups. With electric vehicle popularity soaring, even these vehicles are heavier than gas-powered vehicles. All that to say, if your teen is in a smaller, lighter vehicle, their chances of surviving a crash go down substantially.
Lots to Learn
+1000. We keep cars a long time, too, but the safety ratings on those older cars is much, much worse than the rating on newer cars. With a new driver, we wanted as much safety as reasonably possible, so after the kids learned to drive on our cars, we purchased one that was a couple of years old for them to drive. It was still pretty safe, but not the end of the world if it got banged up. Our family has also always had one bigger car (SUV) for trips and hauling stuff, and one smaller sedan, for driving to and from work and school. They learned to drive first on the smaller one, but also drove the bigger one to learn. When we purchased, we got a used small-ish SUV for one and a used hybrid wagon for the other.
Anon
100% this. The car with the best safety features should be driven by the most inexperienced driver. Most people here seem to hold with giving the teen driver the oldest car. I think that position is leftover from times when safety features were not changing much. I want my kids to have ALL the blind spot monitors, back up cameras, speed governors, cross-traffic warnings that are available.
Anon
No… it’s understanding how teen brains work and how habits work. Teen brains work like this: “I have a blind spot indicator so I can give the quickest of glances over,” not “the blind spot indicator doesn’t do the work for me; I need to check my mirrors like it’s 1995.” Once they develop those bad habits, it’s nearly impossible to break.
River bird
As an aside, I just hate that this is where we are as a society – a huge car safety arms race. The government needs to regulate car size/weight/visibility more heavily ASAP. These huge SUVs make seeing pedestrians and cyclists (especially kids) impossible and very much increase the chance of killing the person the driver hits. But I digress.
Anon
If I were you I’d replace the 20 year old car now, keep the 12 year old car. In 5 years when your eldest is learning how to drive, get a new car but keep the old car and the old car can be for their driving needs. This was very, very common when I was growing up so everyone I knew was learning to drive on their mom’s old minivan or something similar.
I don’t think it was harder to learn to drive than in a smaller car, and I’m glad I grew up driving bigger cars because I now sometimes have to drive a van for work and I’m comfortable doing so.
The only thing that factored into my car buying thoughts with a driving teen on the horizon was having something older so a small ding or scratch wasn’t concerning. We were also very big on the “you do not have a car, I have a car that I allow you to drive” so even having a third car the kids didn’t have carte blanche access to it. We paid insurance and maintenance and gas so it really was “free” for them to drive, so there were rules and restrictions about how and when it could be used.
anon
I can’t answer this question directly as I don’t have kids, but I don’t think it matters? I learned off and on on my dad’s 20 year old honda civic and my mom and stepdad’s giant minivan and also giant SUV. They were different and took some getting used to when I had to switch but it didn’t bother me too much. I’d buy what works for your family and just have them drive that, whatever it is.
Anon
i learned to drive on my mom’s minivan, and then my parents generously purchased a third used car for me that was some kind of smaller regular vehicle.
Jo March
I think you should get what works for your family now and deal with driving teen(s) when the time comes because I don’t think a bigger car will be an issue…. though a luxury car might be an issue if you don’t want to let your teen loose in it.
FWIW, when I learned to drive, my family had a SUV and a minivan, so I learned on both. I would argue it actually made me a better driver because I got very comfortable with parking and judging space in a larger car. I purchased a small sedan for myself after college and remember finding the transition to a smaller car much easier than some of my friends who learned on smaller cars and are now considering transitioning to a larger family vehicle.
Cat
I learned to drive 20 years ago, but what was commonplace is that the teen got whatever the oldest family car was as “their” car – whether the old commuting sedan or the old station wagon or minivan.
Anon
That was the norm in high school too. Only a handful of kids got new cars.
anon_needs_a_break
You’re overthinking it.
FWIW I learned to drive and took my test in my mom’s minivan and it served me well!
Anon
We keep our cars a VERY long time, so I don’t think it’s too early to be thinking about this. We currently have a ’99 Toyota sedan and a ’09 Toyota sedan. The ’99 will likely be replaced in the next 3-5 years, and the ’09 will go to our current preschooler when she learns to drive in 10 years. I think a teen driving a mini-van is fine.
Alanna of Trebond
Seems better to avoid a mini-van/large SUV for safety and emissions reasons. But I don’t have three kids, so I don’t have that perspective.