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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 224 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Crepe Blouse

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Green Work Top: Apt. 9 Crepe BlouseOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Reader L wrote in to recommend this affordable blouse, noting:
I recently purchased a couple of workhorse blouses from Kohl's, of all places. Yep, they're polyester, but surprisingly substantial and not completely sheer like other tops. Regular price is $36, but only fools pay full price at Kohl's. (I worked there many moons ago.) I think I paid less than $20 for them.
Nice! I like the black best, but I'm featuring my second favorite, mint green, because you can see the details better — an opaque, washable blouse is always great. They were originally $36, but are currently marked to $24 — keep an eye out for promo codes to bring them lower. Happy Friday! Apt. 9 Crepe Blouse Here's a plus-size option with several color and pattern choices. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-3)

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Comments

  1. anonymous

    People shared the best deals they’ve got on clothing a couple of days ago, and I’m curious, in general where do you go for your best deals? If I’m really interested in getting really nice clothing at a bargain price, how should I go about doing it? Currently I just wait for stuff to come on steep discount on various retailers’ websites, but that thread got me thinking that there’s probably a better way to do this.

    • KT

      I’m cheap, but I like nice clothes. I love Poshmark and Tradesy to find NWT and gently used clothes from really nice brands

    • jwalk

      For me, it’s outlet malls. Prices are already marked down, then if you wait for a holiday weekend or clearance event, prices get even cheaper. I bought a $400 Elie Tahari blazer for $100, for instance.

      • NY CPA

        Best deal I ever got was doing this. I got a skirt from Ralph Lauren Black Label that was ~$1000 retail marked down to $90 on Black Friday at Woodbury Commons north of NYC.

    • Anonymous

      I find great deals in department stores like Lord & Taylor. Sales + clearance + the coupon/”savings pass”. It is seasonal, sometimes you find great stuff and sometimes there’s not much out.

    • anon-oh-no

      I like the realreal for designer items at a discount, though I mostly focus on shoes. For example, I’ve probably purchased 10 pair of shoes, including a fabulous pair of Manolos never worn for $150, a barely worn pair of Jimmy Choos for $90, and a barely worn pair of Brian Atwoods for $75. I also bought a Carolina Herrera dress and a Fendi dress, each for less than $200, and a DVF blouse for $45.

      You have to check back often, but there is some good stuff to be found.

      • Second hand shoes

        When you purchase second hand shoes, do you clean/disinfect them at all before wearing them?

    • bridget

      Buying out of season, or at the end of the season, usually works well for me. But that is also because I am not into high fashion and tend to keep my clothes for several years.

    • emeralds

      I wasn’t on that thread, but consignment stores in upscale areas are my go-tos. If you’re in the DC area and ever feel like a day trip, the White Elephant in Middleburg is where I buy boots and cashmere. I’ve also gotten some great workhorse pieces at your run-of-the-mill Goodwills–look for not-necessarily-name-brand older pieces for excellent quality and construction. A pencil skirt is a pencil skirt, and I’d rather buy one that was made in the 1950s-70s out of 100% wool that will wear like iron, than some poly blend at the Rack.

      • cbackson

        I have a fantastic consignment shop, to which I owe my fairly extensive designer clothing collection (e.g., St. John, Valentino, Akris).

    • AKB

      I sign up for Neiman Marcus, Bergdorf Goodman, and Saks Off Fifth emails. I stalk the sales, and execute when I see a good price. I bought a SUPER expensive Jason Wu heavy knit black cardigan (think St John but more modern) that I wear all the time – price was reduced from $900 to $250, plus I got some cash back by clicking through eBates.

    • 2 Cents

      I used to have a Talbot’s Clearance Outlet by me. It was great! It was even cheaper than the outlet, with clothes that failed to sell from the previous season going (to die) there. I found a pair of $4 dress slacks, jeans for $15 and more. It was very hit or miss, but when you hit, it was great!

      • Coach Laura

        Me too. Loved the Talbots Clearance north of Seattle but it closed. $8 patent pumps, $25 suede boots, $10 cardigans, $12 lined wool pants, $30 down jacket (was $300).

        Am travelling this summer to Nashville and St. Louis and will be making blitz visits to both outlets.

          • Katie

            There’s a Talbots Clearance Store just south of DC as well, in Springfield, VA. It’s one of my shopping secret weapons!

    • NOLA

      I will sale stalk an item or also google the name of it to see if it comes up cheaper elsewhere. I’ve gotten shoes on serious markdown at NM when they weren’t on sale anywhere else. Also tried on a pair of beautiful shoes at SteinMart one day, googled and found them at Amazon for much less. Sometimes it’s Macy’s with a coupon (my go to for getting Free People items at a lower price). Occasionally I’ve passed on a pair of shoes only to find them at DSW later and pull the trigger. And I always google for promo codes to see if I can get something cheaper. I recently bought a pair of gorgeous SJP pumps (low block heel for my still recuperating knee) for about $60 off of the NM sale price by buying them through a website that offered an extra discount.

    • Little Red

      The Outnet, eBay, end of season sales at NM, SFA, Nordstrom, etc. I also hit the nearby consignment store which is very careful about what it accepts. I know there are more consignment stores in this area since there is money here but I haven’t found them yet.

  2. Jewelry for finance nerd

    Does anyone know any reputable places to go for real Spanish pieces of 8 that are made into jewelry (or know whether King Philip V would really have gone by “Philip,” which seems to very anglicized and IMO not authentic)?

    • Idea

      There is a nice jewelry store near me – mom and pop place – in Atlanta that also sells coins. Ask around locally and you might be surprised. We went there to get my Uncle a Roman coin for his birthday.

      • Anon

        I got a beautiful piece at the mel fisher museum in key west but am honestly not sure if they have pieces of eight or not… just not that knowledgeable about my coins.

    • Anonymama

      He was French, so I’d think he would be called Philippe, and then Felipe once he was officially king of Spain.

  3. KT

    I love Kohls for workhorse basics! And bc I’m plus size, finding clothes that actually fit is an adventure, but I’m always able to find great black pants and blouses there

    • HSAL

      Yep. Just bought a slew of new work things from Kohl’s for super cheap because I’m in between sizes. I really like the Apt. 9 and Dana Buchman (sleeved dresses) lines for workwear.

    • gigi

      I do too, all my blouses are either Apt. 9 or Loft, but the Apt. 9 ones are much cheaper and more opaque. I have a pair of Chaps slimming dress pants that hold me really well and have a nice stretch.

      • KT

        I love Apt. 9. I hate short sleeves/cap sleeves, and Apt 9 is the only one that carries a 3/4 sleeve tee that isn’t too low cut. I end up buying dozens every season

    • Marketingchic

      I recently bought a Apt. 9 stretch cotton blazer. It looks great – and is lined – and I think I payed $20.

    • Meg Murry

      Maybe it’s just my local stores, but I’ve never had good luck in the Kohl’s plus department – I think our local store mostly just stocks the “old lady” style plus sizes. Or whenever I do find something that looks like it could be promising they didn’t have anything in my size on the rack – so maybe there is just someone similar to my size that had already cleaned them out. I’m very long waisted, with a huge difference between my natural waist and hips, and a lot of their stuff just isn’t flattering on me – the tops were all too straight cut and not quite long enough.

      My mother and MIL are both petite (and not plus sized) and they find a lot of stuff from there though that works for them, and my sister has found some steals in the plus department. The past few times I’ve tried there though I’ve wound up actually crying in the fitting room because everything was SO unflattering on me.

      In sum: I think Kohls is a good option for petites and apple and/or straight up and down body types, but I wouldn’t recommend it to plus sized pear or hourglass women on the taller side of average. However, I’d be happy for someone to prove me wrong and steer me toward some deals I would look good in.

      • Laura B

        You’re probably not reading still since the afternoon post is up, but +100 to everything you wrote about Kohls. I’m in Wisconsin, so there are a ton of Kohls stores all around, but I pretty much stopped shopping there because I’d try on a huge load of clothes and nothing would fit me.

  4. Jules

    Venting: Finished meetings in another city late last night, working in the hotel room this morning. From my room I can hear: a vacuum in the hallway; someone practicing trumpet in another room on this floor and – I kid you not – bagpipers practicing outside. (There is a police memorial parade later this morning.) Turning on my white noise app just to try to focus on getting some letters written . . .

    • Noisy

      Sorry this is super annoying. But wait there may be cheerleaders on the horizon.

    • Jules

      Well, no cheerleaders, but I enjoyed looking at the police horses out the window. I was also trapped in the hotel, as the parade staging area/starting point was on a main street in front of the only exit to the hotel parking garage. It’s over now, I can get out of here. Good idea on the ear plugs.

      Thanks for letting me gripe.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      That’s when you give up and just go watch the parade. I do that every Veteran’s Day when the parade goes by my office. The staging area part would drive me nuts though.

  5. Beatrice

    I think it depends on your definition of “really nice” and “bargain” in addition to your time frame and what exactly you are shopping for. If there are a few specific things you are shopping for, like Ferragamo flats, ebay can be good. Where I live there is a more upscale consignment store where you can get good deals on a wide variety of nicer brands (anything from Lilly to Nanette Lepore to St. John). I’ve bought a lot of Cole Haan shoes at T.J. Maxx, and I’ve also seen Kate Spade wallets there too. While you can find great pieces here and there, I think it’s extremely hard to build out a complete and cohesive wardrobe of really nice clothes at a bargain price.

    If you have a lot of time to sort through stuff, try going to a Goodwill in a small town outside a big city. I remember when I was in my early 20s going to a Goodwill about an hour outside of Nashville and coming away with two huge garbage bags full of Brooks Brothers shirts, blazers from Nordstrom, etc all for around $100. This goodwill got all these great donations from the Nashville/Franklin hub, but in this small town, no one was shopping for business formal.

    • Anon

      PSA – Cole Haan makes a diffusion line (read: cheaper quality) that it sells just to discounters like TJ Maxx and DSW. While sometimes you can find genuine CH shoes, more often than not, they’ve been made exclusively for that discounter. Most outlet stores are the same way. That said, I LOVE outlet stores. I know they’re diffusion lines, but they still meet my needs!

  6. Nancy Raygun

    I usually hate Kohl’s because their stores near me are messy and their petite options suck. But I will definitely buy these shirts online. Also, I love love love crepe, even in polyester if it’s not scratchy. Can someone do a roundup of clothes in crepe fabrics?

  7. previously micromanaged

    Quasi-regular poster here, just moved in to a new federal job and loving it. Seeking advice, though:

    My new manager is very modern – he’s in to technology and improvements we can use to make the workplace better, like teleworking and flexible scheduling, and he’s told me he starts everybody at a baseline of trust unless we give him a reason to think otherwise.

    However, I am coming from my last job where I was completely micromanaged. My manager there was the opposite style – watching the team’s behavior every moment to the point where it was counter to productivity, down to the minute of when we came/left, no working from home, etc., hard copy everything. I gained a great skill set there and there were other positives to the job, but it was one of the reasons I moved on.

    It’s only my second week, but I’m having a hard time adapting. I am so used to checking in all the time, even when I leave for lunch, handwalking my assignments around, etc. My new manager just tells me not to rush back if I want to go out and grab a sandwich, or meet a friend or reporter for lunch, sends me some minor track changes and tells me to send my assignment right to our director – it’s great, but I’m afraid I’m driving him nuts with checking in all the time? Especially as my onboarding wraps up and I get up to speed.

    Any tips to help me treat myself like the experienced professional my manager treats me like and quash a little of the imposter syndrome?

    • CountC

      Any time you want to check in with him about something stop and ask yourself if you feel the need to check in because you have anxiety due to your last position or whether it’s something your new manager has actually asked for. I’ve been in your shoes and it did take some time, but once I started asking myself, “Is this something new manager asked for?” before I went to new manager, it helped greatly.

      On some level though, you have to force yourself not to do it. It’s kind of as simple as that. If you find yourself going to tell him you are leaving for lunch, stop yourself and turn around. Don’t do it. It’s not necessary and over time, as a manager, I would be annoyed and wondering if you were a good fit for the office culture.

      • bridget

        What CountC said, and laugh it off.

        You moved on. You did not move on to someone who did the exact same thing to you, or other unprofessional and bad things to you. Be thankful for that instead of throwing away happiness.

        Easier said than done, but when you find yourself wanting to check in, ask permission, etc., force yourself to at least have the words “I am in a new job with a great new boss, who does not demand that I behave that way, and for that, I am very thankful” go through your mind.

        • previously micromanaged

          I am super thankful and enjoying my time here already! Just want to make sure I’m setting myself up for success going forward. The job was a promotion and a jump forward for me, one I’m qualified for, but it is still stretching and I’m growing in to that as well.

    • Anonymous

      It sounds to me like you have two things going on: (1) getting over your previous manager’s micromanaging ways, and (2) learning how things are done at your new office.

      Can you ask a colleague instead of your manager about procedures for turning in assignments? Also, instead of checking in with your boss before going to lunch, consider leaving an “at lunch” post-it outside your office (or an away message on a messenger service, if you use one of those in your office) as a courtesy for anyone looking for you.

      It takes time to learn the culture of a new job and it’s OK to cut yourself a little slack.

      • previously micromanaged

        Yep, everybody has whiteboards for at lunch/at a meeting/etc – I just don’t have one yet!

        I guess it is two pronged between “new boss isn’t a micromanager” and “this is just my new office’s culture.” I sit on the opposite side of the area from most of my new team (small-ish – 4 including me) but I should try and chat with them more. Also watching email traffic to see how this interaction goes and try and get a little smart.

    • 2 Cents

      Did you tell your current manager that your previous one micromanaged his team and you’re trying to break free of those bad habits? When I went from a micromanaged situation to one that was much more freeing, I told my coworkers and immediate boss that I had “word PTSD” and was trying to undo old habits. They were patient and understood where my questions/concerns were coming from.

    • Also in Academia

      As a manager I can say it is sometimes stressful when people can’t handle the gray area. For example, we get early Fridays in exchange for shorter lunches in the summer, and the expectation is that people generally stick to the shorter lunches – but if someone gets stuck in line, or works through lunch one day and takes a longer one the next, or whatever, some people just can’t handle the ambiguity of that being ok. I, and other managers, spend a lot of time reassuring people that their lunch breaks are OK and, flip side, that their peers aren’t exploiting the situation or getting something that they are not. I definitely echo telling your manager you might take a while to adjust, but also to let yourself enjoy this new freedom! Enjoy the grace being extended to you and extend that grace to others when it’s your turn one day!

  8. caro

    Anybody been through the Global Entry application process recently who can speak to how long it takes? My husband and I are thinking of enrolling in advance of some international travel beginning in late July, but if it seems unlikely that we’ll get approved before then, we don’t want to waste the $200 application fee!

    • Anon

      It depends more on the interview component than the initial online paperwork. The online paperwork took maybe 5 days for my husband and I to receive conditional approval (we applied at separate times). When i applied, the first available interview was several weeks out – when he did, it was several months.

      • Mindy

        in nyc, jfk interview slots were available pretty frequently. We did a special trip out to do it, but others have just squeezed them in whenever. I think many appointments get cnacelled/rescheduled, so if you spend time, you could try to find an earlier date; also, if you’re in the NYC, there is also newark for interviews, I think.

      • lost academic

        You want to keep an eye on cancellations and snag a better appointment time as they come.

    • Echo

      I’m currently in the process, and my paperwork was approved in about 4 days. I scheduled an interview for about 3 weeks from that date, it wasn’t too bad (unfortunately poorly timed, since I head to France/Germany today).

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I can’t answer your question but if you have good credit, get one of the high end Amex cards. They were recently doing a deal where you get 100k bonus points for spending 3 or 4 thousand in the first few months. On top of that, you get your Global Entry fee refunded and you get $200 back towards travel fees charged to the card per year. Plus there are a bunch of other benefits like travel insurance. The card has a $450 yearly fee that is not waived the first year but you will get $400 of benefits right away and the 100k in points, if that offer is still out there, is worth at least $1000 in travel. Just make sure you cancel before the next year if you are just doing it for the free global entry app.

      • Anonymous

        Sadly the Amex platinum 100k deal is dead. If you travel a lot, still lots of other perks though!

        The $200 credit is renewed on Jan 1, so if you open the card now you’ll get it twice before the annual fee is due. and you can use it on mileageplus x to buy gift cards if you choose united as your airline, or set up a united registry travel bank – flyertalk has a good thread on this.

        I did global entry last year. Took less than 10 days from application to walking out of the office from my interview. Had a coworker do it two weeks ago though and he can’t get an interview until June – so it definitely depends, particularly on how close you are to an interview location.

    • Anonymous

      I think it took a week for my application to get processed, but 5-6 weeks to get an interview slot at LAX. The challenge is really getting the interview slot and how long it takes.

      When you do have your interview, it kicks in right away. So, if you did it on the day you left, you’d get to use the process when you re-enter. You might not get pre-check on the outbound flight because you’ve already checked in.

      That said, DO IT! Even if you can’t get it before this vacation, it’s good for 5 years and gets you pre check at TSA. $95 each is a small price to pay.

      • Senior Attorney

        Same here. But if you have some flexibility in your schedule, keep checking back on the web site because they have cancellations that free up interview slots all the time. I was able to snap one up within a week or so of my pre-approval or whatever they call it. And I kid you not, the email saying my application was approved was in my in-box by the time I got home from LAX (which probably says as much about LA traffic as it does about the speed of the process…).

    • WestCoast Lawyer

      Go online and sign up today! Wait times for the interviews can vary dramatically, but even if you don’t get it in time for your international travel you will still appreciate the pre-check benefits when you travel domestically. And if you have any domestic travel planned before your international trip and you will be in an airport that has a Global Entry office you can always try to snag a drop-in interview. I’ve heard a number of people have been successful with this. Just make sure you have all the required information with you (passport, utility bill confirming your address and confirmation email, IIRC).

    • SF Anon

      If you are any place near EWR, they seem to have a lot of availability. SFO, on the other hand, is booked up for months. My whole family did their appointments in EWR after landing, really easy.

      • Amy H.

        +1. Just don’t plan on doing this quickly at SFO. I applied in Feb. (and got initial approval within several days), and I took the first interview slot available. Which is in JULY. :)

  9. Stained skirt

    Anyone machine wash their cotton no. 2 pencil skirt? Tag says “dry clean”, but I’d love to avoid that if possible. In the alternative, anyone have experience getting tinted moisturizer out of fabric? TIA!

    • CountC

      I can’t recall if I have washed this skirt specifically, but I wash dry clean skirts and tops all the time with no ill effects. I have a steamer, which is key in getting them unwrinkled however!

        • CountC

          You’re welcome! I think there may be a difference between “dry clean” and “dry clean only” – the dry clean stuff is fine to wash on delicate or whatever equivalent cycle you have.

    • Ellen

      Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s and this fruegel blouse! Great Pick, Kat and Kate!!! Is there a Kohl’s in Manhattan? I know Rosa has one or 2 up near her, but that would take the fruegel out of it if I had to pay $20 for a ride on the train to get it. FOOEY!

      As for the OP, I have my cleaneing lady take care of ALL my clotheing. I know she washes some clotheing and dry clean’s other’s. She would mabye wash COTTON, but NOT silk. I also know she ask’s me b/f washing thing’s b/c I got mad at her for bleacheing my cotton sheet’s. So I direct her and she doe’s it. That is what you have to do with the hired help. They can NOT do thing’s independentley.

      This weekend I am having my freind, Laurie, meet me for lunch. She is now divorced from her husband and has her mother take care of her kid’s. I am meeting her at Penn Station tomorrow when her train come’s in and we will have lunch. She is NOT staying at my apartement, tho, b/c she has the cash to splurge for a spa and hotel room after her divorce settelment. YAY!!!

    • Mindy

      I wash the wool version and refuse to buy cotton anything suiting because of wrinkles.

    • Minnie Beebe

      Just FYI: Dry Clean =/= Dry Clean Only.

      Dry Clean on the tag is a recommendation and those clothes can be machine washed. Dry Clean Only is a commandment, to be disobeyed at your peril. :)

  10. anon for this

    What size do you need to be before you stop being “the fat one” in common perception at an office/party/restaurant and just someone with a body that is unremarkable to others?

    I guess I should point out that I’m in NYC…it is obviously different here than where I grew up, where more people tend to be heavy.

    I know this is a sort of awful question and I cringe to have asked it. But I really want to know the opinion of others who haven’t had my particular background. I certainly don’t think like this myself, but I know people around me do.

    • Idea

      Oh, honey. Do you need a hug or do you need me to tell you to stop judging? Don’t do this to yourself or other people. You’re too good for it. Don’t.

        • Annony

          In my exerience, it was at about 20 lbs. above the recommended weight for my height.

          • Annony

            I’ll clarify a bit to my previous comment. This weight range was where I really noticed others reaction and interaction to the ‘new’ me changed.

            People (particularly strangers) were much friendlier. Men were definitely more initially friendly and talkative. Other women treated me more equally–like a peer, instead of an object of either pity or disgust.

            Yes, it’s sad. But it is reality, in my personal experience at widely different weights. There’s no use sugar coating it.

            What’s helped it to realize that I can’t control others behavior. But I can change my own. It has definitely made me more jaded in regards to human behavior. And, I try to be nicer to others in counter reaction now.

    • KT

      …Do you find yourself judging people in other groups as “the fat one”? I can honestly say I’ve never thought of people that way in an office/party/restaurant. I really don’t think people put that much thought into acquaintances and your body is considered unremarkable (not in a bad way…literally as they will not remark on it).

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know. I personally think of it as like a size 8-10 but that obviously depends. I just got in to a size 12, and saw a photo of myself at my friend’s engagement party with her and it was the first time I didn’t like, “wow I am so fat compared to (bride)” – she’s a 6/8 (thrift shopping with friends!) but 5″ shorter than me – I just thought we looked similar.

      • Anonymous

        I am a size 16- I never consider myself the fat one in a room because I’m a decent adult human being, and I spend zero time thinking about who is the fat one and whether it is me.

        • Carrots

          Yep. This.

          I will say though, I’m 27 and it took me until about 22-23 to stop considering myself the fat one in the room.

        • Anonymous

          It’s a change in thinking for sure. As somebody who was on weight watchers before her age hit the double-digits, it’s a hard one for me to lose. I have definitely thought of myself as the fat one. I’d never say it out loud, but yes, I notice.

    • Wow

      I’m sorry that you have to ask this question. It’s just one data point, but I pretty much never notice anyone’s body size unless they are extremely thin or extremely obese. There is such a wide range of “average” in this country that I wouldn’t look twice at anyone who was a size 14, for example.

      Also, the most fashionable woman in my old office was a big girl, maybe around size 18. But she had the best style, knew what looked good on her, and always got a ton of compliments. I do think that wearing the right clothes and tailoring can make a world of difference, regardless of size.

      • CPA Lady

        +1, there was someone like that at my old job too. She was bigger (18-20?), always beautifully dressed, and gorgeous. I was so jealous of her sense of style and lovely wardrobe, in addition to her intelligence and sense of humor. I never though of her as “the fat one”. That would be horribly reductive to such a wonderful person.

        • Anonymous

          As one who was, “the fat one”, humor is a skill you develop when you stick out in that way. It has been weird losing weight and not sure how that personality trait shifts. Humor is not as accepted by others as you work your way down in weight. (I don’t agree with this, but it is how it is)

          • CPA Lady

            I’m sorry you’ve had that experience with other people! I appreciate a sense of humor in all my friends, no matter how what size they are. And, FWIW, I’ve been complimented on my sense of humor from multiple people and I’m “small”. So, please keep the humor.

      • ABC

        I’ll also contribute that I never look at someone and think of them as “the fat one”. Women come in so many shapes and sizes and not everyone is healthy at whatever weight the media portrays as ideal. Rather than getting to a certain size, I’d focus on feeling good and having a healthy lifestyle.

    • Pep

      I totally relate to this question. I don’t want to be “skinny” or “thin” – I just want to lose enough weight to be unremarkable in that respect. I don’t want my size to be mentioned in the first three things people people say when describing me.

      • Anon

        Me too…I don’t like that feeling. But I would be lying if say I don’t feel that way. I am petite (5 ft 3 inches) and I want to be a size 8 in petite. I am now size 12 and I am not happy with myself. I need to lose 15 Lbs to be size 8. I don’t have any desire to be less than size 8 either.

        • anon for this

          Huh…I’m exactly the same height, was exactly the same starting weight, and I’d pretty much say that’s my goal, too.

    • Anon

      Also in a major city and in biglaw, where I will say that with the exception of older men, there is little fat acceptance/body positivity. Maybe that’s not an “open” thing but if you look around the summers and first years, they tend to be of at least average size and at least average attractiveness. One of my best friends is also in law and would by any definition be called obese (upper upper end of plus sizing). She experiences a lot of what she believes to be size discrimination. I don’t disagree that she does experience that.

      As someone who has always felt that they were the fat one, I’ve actually given your question a lot of thought over the years, particularly since I’ve been in biglaw. I am currently a 6-8 and have at various times been more like a 12 and also more like a 6. Right now, I don’t feel like the “fat one”. Get up to a size 10 or 12? I do feel that way. So there’s your data point from me.

      • Pam

        I agree with this. I have always felt like the outlier / “fat one” once I hit more than size 8/10. Like the one who needs to be specially posed into the photo or who shouldn’t order the burger at lunch without feeling judged. It’s OK to be a little chubby as long as you don’t seem happy about it. (This is the attitude I perceive, not that I have).

        • Anonymous

          If you feel like the fat one at size 8 or 10, that’s a self esteem issue, not reality. Be a better person than that.

          • DC Anon

            I don’t think it’s helpful telling someone who has body image and self esteem issues to be a better person.

            I’m a 6-8 when I used to be a 2-4 and I feel so awful about my body all the time. I’m trying to work on it but it’s not about me not being a good person. It’s really tough.

        • lost academic

          It’s tough. I’m a 10 now. When I was an 8, I was a LOT lighter – talking maybe 50 pounds ago and unhealthily thin. I’m very tall and there’s only so much size differentiation in the types of clothes I have generally worn. I can’t do anything about the size of my frame, though.

      • Anonymous

        Scroll through the bios of associates at V50 firms in major markets. I can almost guarantee you won’t see any 1-5th years who could be described as obese. At my firm, less attractive people don’t go to client meetings. Firms absolutely discriminate in recruiting and access to opportunities based on size and perceived attractiveness.

        • Toffee

          This is sadly true and partly why I’m so much happier teleworking and not in big law. And it’s another reason I’m worried about finding a new job since I lost my last one.

          OP, I always notice when I’m the biggest in the room. No advice, just commiseration.

          • Anonymous

            OMG Toffee please tell me you are finally getting professional help. You are not too fat, stupid, disorganized, or lazy to find and keep a job, and yet this is roughly your 4,099th post asserting as much. I am sure you are perfectly acceptable looking!!!!

      • Anonymous

        I’m 12/14 midlevel in BigLaw and I absolutely feel this. There are maybe two or three other women around my class year and around my size, everyone else is thin. I always feel like the “bigger girl” or the fat one or whatever in the room. I am always conscious of what I order at lunches.

        • Mindy

          Hi! Same. I’m very conscious of it and would like to lose weight to be able to wear my gorgeous 8/10 suits again BUT, on the other hand, I have never felt excluded or less than or felt like I had my work looked down upon for it.

          As I get more senior though, I do wonder if it’ll be an issue for client stuff/putting me in front of (male) bankers.

          However, I don’t let it affect what I order or eat.

        • Anonymous

          I’ll say, I’ve always been this size, since I was roughly in middle school. I only know how to exist in this body. But I’ll tell you that my law firm cafeteria has all kinds of stuff that I would never order because (almost certainly irrationally) I’d hate for anybody to see me order mac and cheese. Because I should have a salad.

    • Jen

      i think it completely depends who you are with! This doesn’t help your question but I’m tall (5’9″). In some groups, I’m a head above everyone else and obviously “the tall one.” In other groups, I’m the same height (or close) with most of the other ladies, so nobody is “the tall one” (unless it’s my 5’10” friend who loves 3″ heels!).

      If I were to take your question and change it to height, it’d be something like “assuming you are standing in a group of women standing at 5’7” [heels or not], how tall would you have to be to be “the tall one” to the passersby?” My answer to that would be 5’10”, or >2 taller than the average.

      For weight, all issues aside, because man, I think this is a silly question, but let’s say 4 sizes (or the visual impression of 3 sizes) above the average mean of the group. If you’re standing with a group of size 0s that have the exact same build as you, you could be a size 8 and look like The Fat One. if you’re in a group of size 8s with your exact build, then I think you’d have to be a size 16 to look noticeably larger than the crowd. All bets are off when you start looking at body types and heights, since all size 12s are not alike.

    • AKB

      I’m not sure that this answers your question – but I have noticed for myself, that I feel deeply ashamed of my body when I am not exercising. I am embarrassed to go “out” because I don’t feel good about myself. When I am exercising, I feel great about myself. It could be the same weight/diet in either scenario, but for some reason I feel so much better about my body when I am caring for it.

    • Anonnnnn

      More hugs because I know this feeling and it’s awful.

      I just wanted to weigh in to say that sizes really can’t do it justice. There are some great websites out there that show different body types/heights/sizes and how clothing sizes are really pretty meaningless.

      For example, I’m a 12 at 5 foot 8, but when I weighed a hundred pounds at this height (and the height of my eating disorder!!), I was “still” a size eight because I’m tall and have relatively wide hips.

      • anon for this

        Thanks! And yeah, I know sizes are a very imperfect way of measuring, just not sure how better to quantify.

    • Anon

      I’m also sad you had to ask, but I understand :( I was a size 12 verging on 14 when I was an older student in law school (so, surrounded by fit and trim 23 year olds). Seeing myself in a pro bono clinic photo one day prompted me to change my lifestyle. I’ve been a size 6 for three years now. (Weight Watchers, if you’re wondering.)

      • anon for this

        Yeah, that’s my situation pretty precisely, in a number of ways! I have started losing a little weight, but now I’m just like “where do I draw the line…?”

        • Anonymous

          I draw the line at 1) feeling good 2) getting strict pull-ups. :-) (I’ve lost almost 75#)

    • Two Cents

      OP, if you’re looking for some plus size inspiration, I highly recommend Tanesha Ashwathi. I think she said she is around size 14/16. I am in awe of how beautiful she is. I’m not plus size but hers is really the only fashion blog I visit because she is fierce. :)

      http://taneshaawasthi.com/about

  11. NY CPA

    Does anyone have the classic Calvin Klein suit separates (pants or skirts specifically) and wash them? I feel like I’m going broke dry cleaning all my clothes and I want to try to find some places where I can skip it.

    • Anonymous

      I washed a skirt, it held up ok, but I don’t expect it to last as long. The newer skirt I have from him I always bryy clean, and I have to say it just seems to lay better than the one I wash

  13. Snick

    I”m eying a swimsuit on Athleta. It’s currently full price. Does anyone know if they have sales often, like the other Gap sites?

    • Anon

      For one humble opinion: while I love the style of Athleta and prefer their yoga clothes over Lululemon. I have not been able to translate that adoration to their swim line. It’s always just a bit too Land’s End fit wise for me and not enough J. Crew style.

      If you have a shop nearby, it might be worth popping in to try something on.

        • Anon

          And here I thought my description was a little too *cutesy* Happy to be of help.

          Now, hopefully they’ll have at least a couple of pieces of swimwear to try on. store selection is seriously strange.

        • DCD

          Yup. I’m fluffy in the middle, and Athleta tankinis work really well for me. They don’t go on sale though.

      • Anonymous

        You can use GAP family store rewards points at Athleta, thought, right?

  14. mer

    Can anyone recommend a great moisturizing conditioner and any other frizz fighting products? I recently got balayage and my long layered hair is looking a bit crispy/frizzy, even though I just got a trim. I’m sure the spring humidity isn’t helping either. I have thick slightly wavy hair that I typically blow out. I’d really appreciate any recommendations!

    • KT

      Redken Frizz Dismiss shampoo, conditioner and styling creme. It helps even in Florida humidity.

    • CountC

      It’s not specifically a frizz fighting product, but I love my Pureology Hydrate conditioner (purple bottle). I have color treated curly hair that I blow out regularly and I think it makes a difference! I buy a huge bottle on Amazon and it lasts forever because you really don’t need to use much. My hair, when straight, goes to the top of my bra band and I use a quarter sized dollop which is plenty (not a high dollop).

    • Anon

      When the humidity strikes I break out the John Frieda Frizz Ease Beyond SmoothFrizz Immunity Shampoo and Conditioner. Plus the Primer as well. I have seriously fine frizzy curly hair that does a “Monica on vacation” and this is the only thing that allows me to look at all pulled together.

      I do have to increase the wash cycle to every two days instead of every three. But for hair that isn’t out of control. I’ll take it.

  15. PAGING SENIOR ATTORNEY

    Hello, Senior Attorney if you are out there….. From your posts, it appears that you and I are contemporaries. I have read your posts with interest, and you seem to have lots of valuable wisdom. If you feel up to my asking for your advice on a relationship issue, please e mail me at sweetknee.sc at outlook dot com.

    I know you have a lot on your plate with the upcoming wedding, so if you are too tied up, I totally understand.

    • Anonymous

      I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought about writing a similar post directed at Senior Attorney. Ha! Maybe Senior Attorney should start her own “Dear Senior Attorney” advice column!

      • PAGING SENIOR ATTORNEY

        I think she should ! I think she and I have similar life experiences, so that’s why I wrote….

      • Senior Attorney

        And feel free to email me any time at seniorattorney1 at gmail. For realsies.

      • Meg Murry

        I would totally read a “Dear Senior Attorney” advice column. Maybe you can partner with Kat and get a feature here? Not kidding, I’d love that.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          +1. I have a real life friend going through some really rough relationship troubles and I quote senior attorney to her all the time. My friend said “who is this wise person you get all this advice from?” And I had to sheepishly say “an internet friend from a blog I follow.” And then I laughed at myself for referring to y’all as my friends and not just other readers from this blog. I feel like I know some of you IRL now.

          • PAGING SENIOR ATTORNEY

            I totally would love that! I have been disappointed in the new “Dear Prudence” over at slate….

          • Clementine

            ‘The only way out is through’ makes me sound like a wise, centered human, rather than the slightly neurotic, outwardly confident yet totally self-conscious woman that I am.

    • Two Cents

      And not only is Senior Attorney wise, but she knows how to shop! Senior Attorney, I just bought that wallet you recommended the other day and I LOVE IT! Small and compact yet manages to hold all of my cards! Woo hoo. Thank you.

  16. KT

    As an utter side note and Friday squee.

    I volunteer at a little horse rescue and they just got an orphan miniature horse. He’s about the size of a medium-sized dog and is the cutest thing ever. His hooves are so tiny and he has these extremely long lashes.\

    He’s sleeping in the kitchen bc he has to be bottle-fed every 2 hours and he snuggles with a stuffed horse the same size as him and I am never getting anything done ever again.

    SQUEEEE

    • KT

      My stomach hurts right now he’s so cute. He’s playing with a horse toy the same size as him and I’m near tears

      • Never too many shoes

        That is seriously the cutest thing ever. I would just want to pull him onto my lap and smoosh him.

      • Carrots

        Please tell me there’s like a web cast somewhere of him playing because I do not need to be distracted but actually I do by an adorable miniature horse playing and snuggling with a stuffed animal his size.

        • KT

          Look on Facebook for Pegasus the Pony. I warn you, there is video of him running and it’s swoon worthy

        • Sydney Bristow

          I would totally watch that.

          When my cat was a kitten she had a stuffed My Little Pony that was bigger than her that she loved. She’s drag that thing all around the apartment. It was so cute I could barely stand it.

  18. Anon

    A client’s mother died and we would like to send a gesture to let him know we’re thinking of him. The family is Muslim – are flowers inappropriate?

    • KT

      Opinions vary widely, but many think it’s inappropriate, because they emphasize simplicity and flowers in the home just aren’t done really.

      A fruit or baked good basket would be just fine! I always have done Edible Arrangements for friends in the Muslim community and they’ve always been devoured

      • MargaretO

        Seconding, food is definitely a better bet than flowers, especially if you can get it to them during the initial mourning period when the family will be sitting together in the house for a long time. I’m Jewish and we do something very similar, snacks are always extremely appreciated.

      • did not know this

        I’m Muslim and was not aware that flowers weren’t done or were considered less of a welcome gesture than food

    • Anonymous

      I’m Muslim. Flowers are not inappropriate, but food would be more appreciated because…it’s food and not for any religious reasons.

  19. Anonymous Preggo

    Not sure if it’s too late on this thread to get responses, but my work situation is unraveling pretty quickly and I could use a little advice on how to prep for a meeting this afternoon. I’ve had issues with a colleague for a while now, and I’m fairly certain he is actively working to undermine me and maybe get me fired. This week, he has stopped responding to my emails/calls or attending meetings related to a project we are working (we are remote, so everything is by phone/email/slack).

    Yesterday, he made a presentation to our COO regarding the project that was completely different than what we had discussed last week. While it covered the points we discussed, it also proposed a very large, expensive, multi-year initiative that we’ve talked about but never planned/coordinated etc. COO was like, “Um, no.” And then proceeded to tell us about a shift in approach he wanted to take on the project we have been working on. After the meeting, I sent him an email saying I was really surprised by his presentation and we need to get back in alignment. He CC’ed our boss in his reply, stating that the project has completely failed and effectively blaming me for that failure.

    We’re having a meeting with our boss this afternoon, where boss has asked for more specific details about what has happened so far with the project and what COO’s feedback has been. Boss has been almost completely uninvolved with the project to this point. I created a timeline of what we’ve done on the project so far, trying to be as objective as possible w.r.t. who has done what, what has been presented to COO in each weekly project update, and what his stated feedback has been, and I sent it to my boss and colleague in advance of today’s meeting. My assessment is that while the COO has asked to take a detour (one I support and even suggested a couple weeks ago), he would say that our efforts have been valuable to him so far. There are two areas I can identify as possibly being sources of displeasure, one falls more on me and the other more on my colleague.

    I’m very certain that my colleague is going to use this meeting to say my work is well below standard and has caused the failure of a high-profile project. He may also try to paint me as having failed to listen to his warnings about the project’s impending failure. While there are certainly things I could have done better, I stand by my work; and I believe the COO would give a favorable review of my contribution. But this is such a wild-card situation, I’m wondering what else I should be prepared for. I feel like the outcome of this meeting will be that one of us is asked to leave the company or at least severely reprimanded to the point that it would be impossible to rebuild any credibility.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t let your colleague get away with making blanket statements about you that are unsupported by facts or details. If he says that you were solely responsible for the failure of this project, ask him to provide examples of why he thinks that. And don’t let him take over the meeting.

      I’m also a bit in the camp of don’t admit your faults if he won’t. Because if you start saying “I could have done this better” and he says “I did everything perfectly” you will look like the person who dropped the ball whether that’s fair or not.

    • Anonymous

      Do not go into this meeting to admit your faults. He won’t. Do not tell your boss why the COO might be displeased- you don’t know that. Do you think you did a good job? Say that. Don’t fall into the trap of saying too much, it reads as defensive. Listen. Speak succinctly.

      And don’t assume that one of you will be reprimanded or asked to leave. You’ll prob both just be told to work better together.

    • Anonymous

      Emphasize how he wouldn’t respond to any of your message and didn’t communicate the change, which you would have opposed. Be very matter of fact.

  20. Birthday anxiety

    My husband is turning 50 soon, and I am organizing a family gathering for his birthday. We live in a large condo, but he wants to do something outdoors (beach picnic) or at a restaurant. The issue that concerns him is his mother. In the past, she has been extremely critical of us not having children, and has taken out her anger on my side of the family. When she heard my sister was expecting years ago, she lashed out at my husband, me, my mother. Now, other sibling is expecting, so she has calmed down a bit, but is still upset.

    Fast forward eight years, and she has mellowed out a bit and suggested that I invite everyone for husbands birthday (after refusing invitations to other events hosted by my family) Of course, I don’t need her permission to do this, but I figure she is perhaps curious, nosey, trying to reach out, etc… Though I want a party that includes my family as well, my husband is uncomfortable having his mother see him interacting with my nieces and nephews– they adore him, and he loves interacting with them. He feels that his mom will be jealous, and at a later date, “use” this against him and make critical comments. This is causing both of us anxiety — do we have two smaller get togethers, or one larger one? He wants to skip this altogether, but a tentative day( though not time and place ) has been set up. I am getting really stressed, as I want to host a nice event, but I need to start making reservations, or organizing an outdoor picnic..etc, and don’t know what to do. I thought you lovely ladies may have some suggestions. Thank you!

    • Jordan

      Do something separate with the mom so there’s no guilt and then don’t invite her to the party. Or at least invite her to do something separate and if she declines then it’s still not on you. Like dinner or ice cream or something fun and low key.

      • Birthday anxiety

        Thank you for the suggestions all. He does want his mother to be there. We both have small families, so a get -together with everyone would be 10 – 12 people, while with only his family would be a total of five.

        We were both leaning towards having two events. My Dad’s birthday is close to his, and we might to a double party for the two of them, and a smaller event for his side of the family…I just feel a bit disappointed because in my mind, I wanted to host an event with more ‘buzz’ and people around!

    • anon

      Its his birthday, so I would go along with his preferences as much as possible – think about what will make the day easiest/best for him as you weigh your options, and set your very legitimate gripes with his mother aside as much as possible. I do think you could have a more adult event separately at a restaurant or bar, and then a picnic that is more family focused, and use that as an excuse for dividing people up. Unless your husband’s side also has kids, in which case that is no help.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      Does your H *want* a family gathering for his birthday, or is this just something his mother suggested/something you feel like you *should* do/something you would want if it was your birthday?

      Personally, this is why I don’t do family parties – my mother is never going to behave herself in mixed company, and she’s going to whine and complain and be terrible if she’s left off of the guest list, so now my H and I just take ourselves to nice restaurants or take a day off from work to take a day trip alone together or with a handful of close friends for birthdays. Birthdays are much, much better that way.

      • Birthday anxiety

        He did want a party initially, but his ideas was just him and me in nature somewhere on day out — and then maybe a lunch with family. His mother will be charming when she interacts with the families, though I know later there will be some critical (maybe harmless?) remarks about the day.

        Thank you for re-enforcing the notion that birthday parties are not always the best course of action. We just have a small social circle, so it feels like marking milestones in a ‘larger’ way (for us) is something we should do.

  21. Bea

    So I’m quitting my job without having another job lined up. I’m a little devastated but was informed that I have no further room for advancement. For me this means that I not longer have any motivation to stay and work really hard. Technically I don’t have to work and all of my salary goes into savings but I do still have student loans and I feel bad throwing my career and salary away. I’m looking for a new job but is it horrible to just take the summer off? Go visit with family and friends I never see? On the one hand I feel a huge amount of guilt but on the other I just feel the need to run away. My husband is being super supportive but I think he is secretly scared that my six figure salary is going away. I feel selfish.

    • Anonymous

      I mean yeah running off for a summer vacation leaving your husband to support you just because you don’t wanna work right now is pretty selfish. You don’t need to quit with nothing lined up.

    • Anon

      This sounds like a financially irresponsible decision based on your reason as being unmotivated to continue working.

      • Bea

        Yeah, I should have known that posting anything on the internet would get me responses like this.

        • Clementine

          Plug for the fact that your mental health is legitimately important too.

          Take a sabbatical. Find your passion. Figure out what’s next. Is it the most fiscally prudent idea ever? No. Is it totally something TERRIBLE that nobody has EVER done before? Absolutely not.

          You sound kind of burnt out. Can you maybe take 2 weeks of vacation time (burn it before you go?) before making a decision?

        • annon

          Seriously Bea,

          What the *^$@ did you think people would say????? Many of us deal with boredom, verbal abuse, underemployment (or even unemployment) at our jobs on a daily basis, yet the majority of us (even those with a long term partner/hubby) cannot afford to just quit. Your comment reeks of economic privilege – don’t be surprised if the majority of us cannot relate!!

          • Anonymous

            This is so over the top as a response.

            It’s not like OP wrote “I’m going to quit my job to yacht across the Mediterranean.”

            She said she’s deeply unsatisfied with her job, believes she and her husband can afford for her to not work for a few months and wondered if that was an unreasonable thing to do.

            Her question literally has nothing to do with the economic status or employment situation of anyone else. If it makes you that angry, just scroll past this post.

          • Anonymous

            What a ridiculous thing to say. Many here have economic privilege and know at what price it came with. Coming here to discuss this isn’t stinky.

        • Anon

          That probably sounded colder than I meant it to. I added your reason as a key point because there are likely other situations where I would have said, “Go for it!” (toxic work environment for example). I could not imagine walking away from a 6-figure salary (which I do not have) without another position lined up … simply because there wasn’t room for MORE. To me, it seems like there is no real problem. I would recommend an aggressive job hunt, line something up, and then take the time off that you need/can afford.

    • CPA Lady

      I dont think it is horrible to take some time off if you need to and can afford it, but I think you are being very black and white about this. You sound upset and burned out, but you can take care of yourself while also taking care of your responsibilities. For example, instead of blowing everything off for months and throwing away your career entirely, you could aggressively apply for new jobs and interview, but set your new start date as a month after your last day at your current job. That way you’ll have a nice long break to relax and do what you need to do, but you’ll also have a job lined up.

      • CPA Lady

        and I say “throwing [your] career away” because that is the language that you used– I’m not trying to be harsh.

    • a

      I would definitely not quit working just because you don’t feel like you have room to advance — I mean, they didn’t tell you to pack up and leave, right? Leaving with nothing lined up seems like an extreme response for this situation, and may hinder you in a future job search. It could definitely come back to bite you. If I interviewed someone and learned that they had no room for advancement then left, I’d probably assume that they’re either (a) high drama; or (b) were actually fired but lying to me about it — both of which would be a major ding.

      I am trying to imagine a situation where this would be OK — maybe leaving and going into a different industry all together, or if you have specific family commitments over the summer, or if you really don’t want to go back to work so don’t mind a very long job search, or if your industry is very cyclical and summer is the high or low cycle …. maybe? Honestly, I think the answer is “no, don’t quit.”

      • a

        Following up based on additional posts:
        This is a great time to lean wayyyyy out. Don’t get fired, but stop going the extra mile, working late, take a vacation, etc. Don’t compromise your reference entirely, but I think you can let your “give an f-ometer” drop very low without doing so. You do sound very burned out — and that is no fun — but the decision to quit really may hurt you, and probably won’t hurt your employer that much.

        • J

          This.

          I know it hurts to hear that you aren’t (wanted? deserving? special enough?) to move up in your company. It makes you want to say, “Oh really? Well then you can very well do without me!” and flounce out the door. Resist the urge.

          Don’t let your pride and emotions rule you.

    • Anonymous

      Why is your salary going into savings if you have student loans? I don’t know your financial situation, but I would pay off my loans before quitting or start looking for a new job before quitting. That said, you know yourself better than any of us and mental health is important.

    • Anonymous

      Taking care of yourself isn’t selfish. I am not in the “live to work” camp, so if you and your husband can afford for you to not have income for a few months, take that time to re-connect with family and friends. Just remember, it may take a while to find a new job, so you may be ready to go back to work long before you secure your next position.

      • Anonymous

        Also, I’ll add the need to “run away” is probably not going to be satisfied by quitting your job and spending a few months away. The need to “run away” is often founded in deeper and more substantive issues like feeling “stuck” in your life, not knowing where things are going next, not feeling like you’re making progress compared to your plan or your peers. And that feeling won’t change because you take some time off. Unless you spend some time really figuring out why you want to escape.

        • anon

          Thank you for this. I am a different poster but this really spoke to me today.

    • Spirograph

      I’ll be the voice of dissent. I don’t think that’s a terrible way to spend the summer, IF you are confident you can get another job lined up for the fall.

      However, for me, this would not be a reason to quit immediately — is there really nothing more you can learn at this job? You can advance your career overall even if your opportunities for advancement in you current company/firm are limited. Working hard and learning is how you get promoted whether it’s internally or externally; if there’s no way up where you are, nothing has fundamentally changed, it just means you’ll need to look externally for your next promotion.

    • Been there

      To offer a counterpoint, I quit my job years ago because I hated it (not because they forced me out although they might have eventually). I did not have another job lined up. Some people thought it was incredibly foolish, but I knew for my sanity and well being it was the right decision. I ended up finding another job within 6 months. During the interim period, I volunteered, relaxed, and enjoyed myself.

      Looking back on it now, my current self would probably think my former self was foolish and I definitely wouldn’t do anything like that now. But at the time, it was the right decision and I don’t regret it one bit.

    • Anonymous Preggo

      I don’t think it’s horrible at all, especially if it’s truly impacting your mental health or preventing you from doing something you would really rather do like spending more time with family who won’t be around forever.

      I don’t know how it will impact your long-term career prospects, though, so you should be sure you understand that and are willing to live with the consequences. A friend of mine quit her job to hike the Continental Divide for 6 mos after a nasty divorce. She’s usually a very responsible, “do the right thing” person, so it was a big deal to her. In the end, though, it was the best thing she could have ever done. The experience helped her rebuild emotionally, and a few months after coming back she found a great job (in a new city) doing similar work to what she had done before. I think it helped her that she is a very social person and had a large network to get referrals from.

      I’ve contemplated leaving a really awful job before (including my current one), but I’ve never done it and don’t regret not doing it in the past. In my case, quitting would’ve very much been about running and hiding from something nasty (like an abusive boss)…but sticking it out meant that I was able to find my own way to be successful and get concrete career development out of my job. While I honestly think I had PTSD for a little while after leaving my horribly abusive boss (like constantly yelling at me and humiliating me in front of everyone to the point where a lot of people reached out to me privately to offer support), I think if I had left earlier than I did I would’ve wondered if she was right and my self-esteem would’ve been lower. Instead, I can take pride in the fact that I accomplished something under difficult circumstances.

      My other piece of advice, given my current circumstance, is that when you do switch jobs or return to work don’t take a job by default…now that the fog has cleared based on my last job, I realize I really regret changing industries…leaving aside any of the other issues I’m having in my current job.

      • Bea

        Thank you all – even those who do say it is selfish. It’s toxic and I do need to figure out where I want to go from here. You are absolutely right that moving up doesn’t have to be here. I’m thinking about taking this blow and using it to start a new career. I’ve always wanted to actually work in hr and maybe stepping back and taking a risk is worthy it. I just don’t want to be old and look back and wish that I had spent more time with family. It’s true that I should pay off my student loans – to be honest the interest rate is so low I’m doing better with investing the money but I think I’ll knock that out soon.

  23. MissD

    The problem I have with polyester blouses (expensive or not) like this are static. And no amount of Static Guard seems to kill it. For my nicest work blouses, I now invest in real silk, cotton or linen.

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