This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
If you’re coming into work the week between Christmas and New Year’s, I hope you’re able to wear the comfiest clothes in your closet.
I distinctly remember a year where NYC got 20 inches of snow on December 26–27 and I had to be in the office prepping for a trial. If you’re similarly situated, you should be wearing your comfy work pants, and if you don’t have any, you should be looking at Athleta.
I love these dark green trousers, but the many varieties of the Brooklyn pant are also great options!
The featured pants are $129 and come in sizes 0–16. They also come in black and “pyrite.”
There are a bunch of great pull-on pants for the office in 2024. Some of our longstanding favorites include those from Athleta*, Everlane, Eileen Fisher*, Betabrand*, and Uniqlo. If you're looking for something a bit more polished but still ultra comfy, check out Nic & Zoe* or NYDJ*. (Brands with plus sizes are marked with asterisks.)
Some particular styles we love are below:
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Bewitched
BODEN VOUCHER CODE. Morning all: I’m so grateful for this community, which has given me many suggestions/resources and where the commentary helps me to realize that my issues and problems are no different from others. Thank you to all who contribute in a positive fashion! I paying it forward by sharing a Boden $15 gift voucher-it’s a one time use only voucher so congrats to the lucky reader! Expires 1/7/24 and the voucher code is WTUNDYWJJRFH. Instructions are to enter voucher code in the “Apply a Gift Card” box at the Payment section of Checkout. Happy New Year!
DC Pandas
Late to the party, but wanted to thank you for the voucher! I ordered a flippy satin skirt in hopes of wearing it for Valentine’s Day.
Anon
I love the look of these but the shape of my body does not allow for pants without belt loops. Sigh.
Anonymous
I like the colour, but I can only wear pants that go all the way down.
Anon
This is the one upside of being 5-4. A lot of pants finally fit me in the legs (sorry to you all who are taller — I did used to spend a fortune to hem pants).
Senior Attorney
Same here at 5’2″! I love these but alas, they don’t have the green ones in my size!
Anon
On nice thing about Athleta is that they carry talls in some styles, at least in straight sizes. That’s the only way I can wear the Brooklyn pant – they are soooo short in the regular length.
anon
Yeah, I am also pear shaped, and I admit I have multiple pairs of these pants, but they all gape terribly at the waist so I can only wear certain tops with them that cover/hide the waist. And sometimes I get so tired of wearing only pants with belts that just don’t look/lie as nicely as I would prefer.
My ideal unicorn pant is flat front, side zip, has some stretch….. but most curvy cuts are not generously curved enough to support my shape, or have too much extra fabric at the thighs etc… And I don’t want to be wearing skin tight stretchy “pants” that are essentially leggings to work.
Ugh… pants…
We all have such different shapes. How can they possibly work universally.
Mantra Magic
I have an hourglass shape and often have the waist gap. I just get the pants altered so they fit correctly and save me frustration. It’s worth the money on a pair of pants you love.
Anonymous
They don’t. I’m also a pear and your unicorn pants would never work for me.
That’s why finding a good tailor is pretty much an essential thing.
Anon Tailoring
Yup, also have the waist gap and pay $25 per pair of pants to get the waist taken in- it helps me feel more confident in my shape that this money is well worth it! I also have been recently focusing on buying 100% cotton pants, no stretch, in larger sizes to fit my hips and tailor in the waist as I find these look best.
Anonymous
I’ve been doing the same thing. Pants without stretch are so much nicer!
Anon
I just started a new job with a hoteling policy. I will be in office Tuesday and Thursday, so I can’t even leave things overnight, I am on the waiting list for a locker, but don’t have one yet (and I don’t know how long it will take to get one).
Each day I’ll need to bring my laptop (but each desk has a charger / docking station, monitors, keyboard, and mouse so won’t need to bring that), notebook, phone charger, headphones, a small pouch with supplies (Advil, tums, hair tie or clip, tampon), my lunch, and gym clothes and basic toiletries / makeup (I work for an office that gives us time to workout during the work day!).
I’ve never hoteled before, so I was apple to leave Advil, phone charger, toiletries, makeup, shoes, and snacks in the office and would just need to bring my laptop / notebook, lunch, and a change of clothes with me, which fit fine in a tote or backpack.
Looking for bag recommendations (I assume I’ll need two?), tips, and advice on how to not feel like a pack mule :)
Cat
find a colleague who’s willing to share until you’re off the wait list?
Anon
Does the gym have lockers? I leave my workout stuff + toiletries in the gym locker and carry a normal backpack.
I wouldn’t overthink this – loads of people bring what you listed, and a notebook and Advil take up nearly no space.
AIMS
How are you getting to work? If driving, it’s obviously a lot easier to carry a ton of stuff! If you can leave stuff in the car that helps.if you can’t, I would say minimize what you actually need, get pouches to group things and bring only the amount you might need: e.g., small thing of advil (I use a little travel size bottle and just refill as needed) instead of a bottle, snacks just for the day, individual tea bags instead of box of tea, etc.
Anon
I’ll be walking – it’s only a 10 minute walk which is nice.
I’ve already switched to just a few loose Advil rather than a bottle and a 16 oz water bottle from my 32 oz Nalgene but that’s a good call – I’ll think about what else I can downsize.
Sybil
I’m a Rowledge evangelist but I could definitely fit all that in there, depending on how chunky your workout shoes are.
Anon
I’d wait until you go to the office and see what’s there to buy a new bag. I bring less than I thought I would because there are first aid supplies, coffee and tea, tampons etc. even notebooks I’d cross off your list. I just use a legal pad at the office and take a photo of my notes if necessary. Alternatively you could get a locker at your gym and leave sneakers, toiletries and a set of makeup there.
Anon
Unfortunately, the gym doesn’t have overnight lockers, otherwise I’d leave a lot there. It’s a government office so anything that’s not strictly required for work is not provided – so I’ll need to transport pretty much everything. Even legal pads and pens are hard to come by – the supply closet is locked and you need one of a few key holders to approve what you’re asking for and get it for you.
The more I think about it, the more I realize I’ll have to transport or do without (mug, “desk sweater”, a bandaid or two, utensils for my lunch).
anon
Oh that stinks. In that case, I think you should fit the laptop, lunch, and shoes in in a backpack (I’d walk in your gym sneakers and carry the work shoes). You could bring a small purse that has your phone, wallet, headphones, etc. in it. For a ten minute walk I wouldn’t stress about this at all. I walk farther than that just to get to the metro. However, I will say that even though I have a gym and work and time to work out, I don’t work out mid-day at the office. I just find it a hassle to shower in the middle of the day, carry extra stuff, etc. YMMV.
Anon
Yeah I used to always work out right before or right after work, but this job gives a few hours a week to be used for working out and I want to take advantage of it! I’m training for a marathon, so if I can knock out my mid week runs while at work, that will definitely save me time!
This job has a mandatory, unpaid lunch so I will be spending more time at work each day than I did at previous jobs, so working out during work hopefully can offset some of the extra time spent at work now.
No Problem
You should be able to fit all of this in a backpack with no problems. This would all fit in the basic backpack I bought years and years ago (it has a laptop sleeve which would fit your laptop and notebook, plus the outside zipper pouches which would fit your pouches of toiletries and phone charger and such). And it will be better for your back in the long run to divide the weight onto both shoulders instead of carrying a tote bag. You just need to be judicious with the size of things like your lunch containers and probably commuting in your gym shoes vs. trying to shove those in your bag as well.
Anon
You might add alcohol wipes to your list if you’re sharing keyboard and mouse (and the physical desk surface).
Anonymous
I would look at the bags and backpacks from Lululemon that are designed to hold laptop + workout clothes, or the large Rowledge backpack from Lo & Sons. You should easily be able to fit everything listed except your lunch into the bag or backpack, especially since you don’t need to carry a power adapter or mouse. Carry your lunch in a separate insulated bag. I would also throw a small crossbody or wristlet into your bag to carry phone, keys, access card, and wallet when you are away from your desk during the day.
CR
I’m in this exact situation and I use the L.L. Bean Boat n Tote, size medium with short handles. I used a smaller bag, but found I always have something extra to throw in there (a thermos, a file, extra shoes) and think this size is perfect. I love that the fabric is stiff so the bag stays open by itself.
Anonymous
Tell my if I’ve become Mr. Scrooge. I’m a partner in an AmLaw 100. A first year associate just started in the fall. Shortly after starting, he took two months of paternity leave. Just came back two weeks ago, so I’ve looped him in on some ongoing matters. Last week when we were discussing this week’s deadlines, he told me he would be out of town with family this week but he could still work. Ok whatever I’m with my family too, don’t really care where you are I just need to know if you’re available. Now he’s been telling me he has limited availability because he’s celebrating Christmas with family. I understand everyone wants to see the new baby. But dude you just started a new job in a demanding field and you’ve been on leave more than you’ve been in the office. Maybe this isn’t the time to take an additional week off, but if you’re going to do it then do it and don’t play hide and seek with your availability. Selfishly, I’m relieved he’s not available; it’s much faster for me to just do the work than to teach him how to do it. But he is missing good opportunities to learn (that won’t be here next week) and that does make me question his commitment to his career. I’m pretty overworked and grouchy so maybe I’m being too hard on him?
Anonymous
This is very much a facet of American work culture, in most other countries they’d be horrified by only 2 months of pat leave.
Anon
But he just got back! I think I’d have tied on xmas with Thanksgiving or done it in early December. I work heavy year-end closing gigs and I routinely observe Thanksgiving and Xmas over the window between Halloween and MLK since we have no local family. Dude needs to be a better life planner than this. It’s a bit tone-deaf (or move to Europe! apparently European leave policies are his spirit animal, but here, someone is carrying the load for this dude and his reputation will take a hit at work).
KR
I think it is a coaching moment to let him know that it is an important skill to be able to forsee and communicate availability over these kinds of known periods of time – to your point, playing hide and seek is being passive, rather than pro-active about managing his work and its impact on others.
beyond that, I would let it go – it’s pretty early to be judging commitment to his career.
and make sure you are taking care of yourself!
Anon
I understand the frustration about the limited availability this week but I don’t think it’s fair to judge him for the paternity leave which you seem to be doing.
Anon 2.0
Agreed. You need to take the paternity leave out of this situation entirely.
Anon
As a person who has taken maternity leave 2x and is abundantly aware of how harshly women with children are judged in “hard” fields, I would have done my xmas visiting earlier while I was on a large block of leave. I would have hit the ground running upon my return. And if I was busy on a weekend, I was just “unavailable,” never unavailable on account of family.
FWIW, I think that this guy is doing what killed women’s careers and TBH he ought to listen to us, because I’d tell him if we were a friend (vs a supervisor he’d be able to sue) that he will be killing his career and reputation. All of the gunners in my firm who are men are dads (and the lead female gunner has 3 kids to my 2), so they have the juggle but they just do it better.
Anon
Yep. Taking parental leave does NOT mean you should have to forgo Christmas, FFS. American norms are the literal worst.
Anon
Not if you have YE closings. In my field, I could take off of the first week of January with no issues but not the last week of the quarter.
Dude should move to Europe if he’s insisting on being like this.
Anonymous
The amount of capitalist pandering in this thread is sickening.
Anon
IDK — I work with these dudes and would like to have to cover for them less. I don’t get to do their reviews, so I can’t fire them. But if I could, I would.
Anon
I’m sorry, do you know which webste you’re on?
Peloton
What, exactly, do you think big law is? The entire job is capitalist pandering! That’s the whole point! He’s not working for the DSA.
Anon
To be fair even without parental leave it’s not uncommon to work Christmas in big law. That’s the price for making $200k right out of school.
Anon
Right? BigLaw buys a call option on your time. If you don’t like that, we all know where the door is. I don’t like that, but it’s how I pay my bills and I don’t come from money, so it’s the most feasible way to pay off my loans. As this guy’s theoretical co-worker, I resent him doing this.
Anon
There have been dozens of posts here over the years about how the Big Law old guard insists that you become a slave to the company because of the starting salary (anyone remember the canoe trip associate?). Younger lawyers entering the profession disagree and think they are entitled to be treated like human beings whether the salary is high or low. To me, it looks like the old guard doesn’t want anyone to have it easier than they did. Bitter way to live IMO.
Anonymous
I disagree with anon @ 1:41pm. You’re working a notoriously demanding job that requires sacrifices on your personal life. The flip side you are compensated very well. If you don’t like it, then it’s not the job for you.
Anon
I don’t think it’s bitter so much as realistic. First year associates are pretty fungible. The firm will find someone else to work these hours if you won’t.
I wanted more of a life and left big law. That’s a perfectly valid life choice. Since leaving I have never worked on a major holiday and almost never work weekends or holidays. But I also make a lot less than Big Law attorneys. That’s how the free market works. If this guy wants to last more than a year or two in Big Law, this isn’t the right attitude.
Anon
It’s not about not wanting younger people to have it easier than you. It’s just being upfront that the firm can easily let you go and find someone to replace you who will work longer hours and not go off the grid for a long vacation when there’s a pressing deadline. It’s simple math that there are way more qualified people than Big Law jobs, so firms have the leverage here and can demand very long hours and near constant availability. I don’t really see that changing, although more power to Gen Z if it does. I’m ex-Big Law and not invested in the outcome either way, but I think it does associates a disservice to ignore the current reality of what partners expect from junior associates.
Kittens*and*Butterflies
I don’t see this as a judging for paternity as much as returning and immediately claiming to be unavailable again. I’ve noticed with our new (young) hires, they are all about the vacation and 9-5, no weekend, work weeks instead of learning the trade. They don’t seem to understand that there is a certain amount of information that must be learned to become proficient. One can work like crazy at the beginning, then coast, or spend 10 years learning the same material and never becoming proficient.
Personally, without a commitment after an extended absence, I’d cut him loose. Your knowledge is valuable and if he doesn’t want to commit to learning, what is the point in spending your time teaching?
Betsy
I think it’s an odd policy for a firm to let someone take paternity leave right after starting, and that’s created this situation. Many workplaces would have suggested a January start instead. He’s effectively a brand new employee at the holidays, which is awkward. You would all be better served by waiting until January to form opinions about his work ethic.
Anon
Yeah a January start would have been better for everyone involved.
Cat
I agree with you- this seems like an absolutely ideal moment to make an exception to the “everyone starts on the same day in the fall” practice.
Anon
Although would BigLaw catch heat for doing that? Presumably dude needs to be employed to get health insurance to get spouse on it for birthing costs and health insurance for family? I get it for not switching jobs then, but if he is going from working to not working, I sort of get his side of it, just now how he carried it out. And if he didn’t volunteer it, how would you know? HR can’t ask about this stuff I’m guessing. But yes, he should have used his leave and then been full-on present if he couldn’t have had a delayed start.
Cat
in most places you’re not eligible for FMLA and-or fully paid leave for X months or years after starting. Perhaps this associate negotiated the immediate paid leave for himself as part of the offer process, but at the time he would have received the offer, typically in August 2022 for a start date of fall 2023, his partner wouldn’t have even been pregnant yet.
Cat
Also- why assume his partner needs his benefits? I didn’t see any hint that they don’t have their own?
Anon
Even if partner doesn’t “need” the extra insurance, workplace insurance costs vary widely, so dependent coverage on one could be several times higher than another. Also, if you double-up, you have more coverage, which for a hard pregnancy matters. Also, if you are in DC, fertility is mandated coverage but IIRC it isn’t if say a partner works in a different state, which is often the case. I’m just thinking that there may be a big reason here for why people do different things.
Anonymous
Gift help? cousin is getting married in a few months to their long term partner (second marriage, both in their 50s). I was thinking nice champagne flutes but I don’t know if they drink. Would like to spend around 200 – looking for a classy thoughtful gift but I don’t know their interests very well.
Senior Attorney
If they’re not registered, I’d suggest a consumable like a gift card to a nice local-to-them restaurant or very fancy sweets like Bridgewater chocolates.
anon
+1
Agree.
I promise you, the last gift a financially secure couple in their 50’s needs is a pair of champagne glasses, and they will get several.
Anon
I’m a counsel in Biglaw, and this would frustrate me as well.
Anon
I got so much grief from my biglaw office for opting to *work from home* a few days around Christmas the year my husband was deployed overseas and home for the holiday. I do hope for better for today’s first years. Anyway, you can’t do over his start date. Take him aside in January and make clear your expectations about availability going forward.
Explorette
I’d be pretty annoyed with this as well. I’m at a top 50 firm, and this attitude has been creeping in with new associates lately. They want big law salaries but not big law hours. I would present this to him as: in the future, if you are planning on having limited availability you need to let the team know in advance what your hours will be. Otherwise, we assume you are fully available. If you otherwise like him, it’s worth putting in some coaching time. If not, with that kind of attitude he won’t make hours and will wash out anyway.
Anon
Yeah but I don’t think wanting to spend Xmas with your family is “attitude” – it’s respecting yourself. That said, it’s also completely fine as a boss to say “XYZ had to get done by ABC date and I know it sucks to work over the holidays but that’s the expectation for this job.”
anon
I’ve known both men and women who ended up having to take leave very close to starting in biglaw because you know, sometimes things happen. This is just something that happens and props to your firm for creating an environment that he felt that he could take the leave. In your particular case, the real problem is that he wasn’t upfront about his availability. That’s the teachable moment – same as any other associate who you told you they’d be available to work over the holidays and didn’t.
Anon
TBH this is a huge problem for a TON of junior associates this deal. To the point where mid or senior associates are also complaining about it. They get stuck with all the work while feeling like the new associates just peace out for the year.
Anon
This. The junior associates at my firm have also been doing this and I (6th year associate) am getting stuck with a lot more work that they should be doing.
I hate it and also don’t want to be working this week – but we have a year end deal and the work has to get done. That’s why they pay us so much.
Anon
Can’t you say to the juniors, sorry, duty calls you need to cancel plans and get this done? Seething silently isn’t helpful for anyone.
Anon
Right – that’s what this comes down to. Instead of silently raging and promising to punish his career potential and probably ax the paternity leave program, have a conversation.
Anon
I will just say that you can’t say it. Your calls aren’t picked up. Emails go without replies. All I can do is document for the file. A week later, it’s not worth my time to discuss, especially if no apology has been forthcoming. Totally different story if they are proactive on realizing they effed up and are making strides at being better.
Anonymous
I don’t agree with men taking more than about two weeks of paternity leave. The very short maternity leaves that are given in the United States are for the mother who has given birth to recover physically. Until mothers in the United States get actual maternity leave for parenting, giving men paternity leave just exacerbates the inequalities mothers face in the workplace. He gets two months to loll around the house while his wife recovers from a major medical event while feeding a baby from her body 24/7? That doesn’t seem equitable.
Anon
He could have done it after his wife’s leave was over?
Anonymous
But he still is getting a benefit that she’s not getting. He’s either JUST taking care of the baby and not recovering from giving birth, and at a time when the baby is more fun and interactive than the early days when his wife was stuck at home with a tiny baby that does nothing but eat, poop, and scream, or he’s sending the baby to day care and using it as vacation time. If he were a professor he would be using the time to write articles and get ahead on tenure requirements. It’s just inequitable no matter what.
Anon
Not all mothers give birth either – do you think adoptive mothers and women who have to use surrogates shouldn’t get any mat leave? Because that seems like a horrible take.
Maternity and paternity leave are about much more than physical recovery from childbirth, which really takes a couple weeks at the very most (I had a fourth degree tear and was back to normal life tasks within a week). People want a chance to bond with their babies and be there 24/7 when they’re very little. You will lose good employees if you don’t offer it. Paternity leave also helps with having men be more hands-on parents. I remain convinced my husband is a much more equal parent because he took his paternity leave after mine and had to figure out to be solely responsible for baby 40+ hours per week.
Anon
I feel like paternity leave when mom goes back to work builds skills and bonding. Otherwise, you could be the family’s in-house Uber Eats. But doing it all solo vs being the Assistant Mom isn’t the same thing. It’s one thing if Mom has had a c-section and can’t lift (and for the first week or two when they say not to drive but the baby has to go to the pediatrician within X days of birth), so take 2 weeks then. But Dads would do better to take some of it later, esp. if it is a first kid.
Anon
Okay, I don’t know why you have this idea that parental leave is only about physical recovery, but the rest of the world seems to agree that it’s not.
Anon
I agree that men who use paternity leave after their wife has returned to work often get a more fun baby, but the flip side of that is that caregiving generally gets more challenging the older a baby gets. Newborns sleep nearly round the clock. I watched ungodly amounts of Netflix and read about a book a day during my maternity leave. My husband, who took his leave directly after mine, had much less time to himself.
Anonymous
Where are these newborns that sleep around the clock? Mine never slept but did eat around the clock.
Anon
The average newborn sleeps 14-18 hours per day. And regardless of whether your kid is at the high or low end of that range, their sleep needs will decrease as they get older. I don’t think being home with a 6 month old is easier than being home with a 2 month old, although I agree it’s more fun.
Peloton
…your plan to get women more maternity leave at companies that don’t offer it is to remove paternity leave at companies that absolutely offer both?
Anon
I feel the opposite. Women will never have equality until men taking paternity is normalized. As long as parental leave is mostly a female thing, women will continue to be penalized for it (at least unconsciously).
And regardless of whether you think men “should” have par leave, I don’t think it’s fair to hold it against him for taking advantage of a benefit available to him.
Anon
I agree.
JD
Agreed. In terms of advancing rights, women’s leave should the priority while many women don’t get it. However, men should be encouraged, supported and ideally forced to take leave if their company provides it. As men take it, leave will become more normalized and less a thing that penalizes women.
Anon
Big Law normally offers 6+ months maternity leave, so women also have much more leave than needed for physical recovery. I could see your point if the company only offered women a few weeks, but that’s not the case in Big Law.
My husband took his leave after mine ended and was our kid’s sole work day caregiver. I “lolled around”much more than he did because he had an older, more active baby to take care of, whereas I had a newborn who slept almost all day and watched a ton of TV. Sorry you know sh!tty men but this seems like a huge generalization.
Anon
Where do they have 6 months? I think we have 4 (BigLaw) and TBH only junior employees have this truly off. If you are a solo practitioner or work somewhere as a partner, you don’t dare go dark for this long.
anon
basically any v50 firm and even my amlaw 200 firm had 6 months including the short term disability
Anon
I absolutely hate this attitude. It’s a way to keep women chained down as default parents.
Anon
Yes!!
Anonymous
Women will always be default parents because they are the ones who give birth and nurse the baby. Giving men paternity leave gives them an unfair advantage over mothers. I don’t think non-birthing mothers should get leave either. If your body wasn’t taken over by another human, you shouldn’t be treated the same way as someone who has sacrificed her body. Once birthing mothers get adequate leave, then we can talk about giving all parents additional leave for bonding and baby care.
Anon
Not giving paternity leave reinforces mom as the default parent. There’s published research about this.
Re: no leave for adoptive parents, So you think an adopted baby should go to daycare at a few days old? Daycares don’t even normally take infants under 6 weeks. What are the parents supposed to do if neither has parental leave? Plenty of Americans don’t have the ability to save 6 weeks of PTO even if they wanted to. This is putting adoptive parents in a horrible position.
Anon
If that’s your standard it gets blurry quickly. Plenty of biological mothers don’t nurse. Some hire night nurses and have nannies and get way more rest than parents (including dads) who can’t afford these luxuries. Some have medical complications that result in postpartum hospitalization, others have super easy deliveries. Some have PPD, others are on cloud nine. No two women have the same experience and there’s no possible way to make it “equal” in the sense of everyone having it equally easy.
It makes sense to me to give birth mothers sick leave (with additional sick leave available for complicated deliveries), and then give all parents bonding leave, which is what my employers does.
Anon
They’re not treated the same way. Paternity leave is normally much shorter than maternity leave, even at companies that offer both.
Anon
This is a pretty abhorrent view that really disrespects adoptive parents. You did everything short of calling them “not real parents.”
Anon
I don’t know any father who has lolled around the house during their parental leave.
Anon
Same. Crappy dads don’t use paternity leave in my experience. The men who take it are hands-on fathers.
Anonymous
In academia they all use it to write articles and get ahead on tenure.
Anon
You keep saying this, but you have no source for “all men in academia do this.” Some men do this. Not all. Almost all the academic men I know used paternity leave to be their child’s caregiver. My husband is a professor and was our kid’s sole workday caregiver for 8 months after I went back to work. It saved us a boatload of money on daycare, made it much easier for me to go back to work, and it deepened the father-child bond and made our partnership more equal. It was exactly what paternity leave is intended for, and benefited me and our kid much more than it benefited him. The fact that some small percent of people abuse a benefit is not a reason to take the benefit away from all.
Anonymous
here’s the evidence for economics faculty: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20160613
Anon
I can’t speak for c-sections (and I know you generally get additional time off to recover from a C-section, which seems fair), but I really wouldn’t characterize vaginal childbirth as a “major medical event.” I didn’t have an especially easy delivery but it didn’t really impact my life in any way, except I cringed a bit when walking up and down stairs for about a week. I mean, sure, I wasn’t going to be riding a bike or running a marathon any time soon, but as far as functioning in normal life, the physical recovery from birthday had very minor impact beyond the first couple of days. The removal of my wisdom teeth was harder for me, and that isn’t exactly a major medical event either (I only got 2 days off work for the wisdom teeth!). I really do not think companies give mothers 4-6 months off because they think they need that entire time physically recover. Physically, virtually all women would be fine to go back to work within a matter of weeks, if not days. They give women months off because maternity leave is also about bonding and caregiving, which dads can share in equally.
Anonymous
What companies give mothers 4-6 months off? 6-12 weeks is more standard. It’s not just about recovering from the physical trauma of the actual birth. It’s also about the hormonal swings that lead to drenching sweats multiple times a night, malnutrition from hyperemesis, and BFing at the insistence of one’s “enlightened” husband.
Anon
Big Law, which is what the question is about!! Shorter leave policies aren’t relevant because OP said she works in Big Law.
Girl, I’m sorry your husband sucks and made you breastfeed and didn’t pull his weight with childcare. You’ve posted about this a million times over the years, and I don’t understand why you’re still married. I know a lot of crappy men, but forcing a woman to breastfeed is a level of control that borders on abusive, and I don’t say that lightly. But your husband being terrible isn’t a reason to take paternity leave benefits away from deserving men (and women and kids who are positively impacted by their husbands/fathers taking leave!)
Anon
Any company that gives 2 months of paternity leave is probably giving at least 4 months of leave for birth mothers. Leave policies vary widely, but it’s pretty universal for birth mothers to have more leave than fathers and adoptive parents. My employer gives all parents 6 weeks, and birth mothers get an additional 6 or 8 weeks depending on how they give birth.
Anon
The paternity leave part would not bother me but it is a pet peeve when people claim they are going to be “working remotely” over the holidays and then turn out to be unavailable. Among other things, this type of behavior is what is making my office rethink remote work. It is not fair to the people actually working who have to pick up the slack or the people who use their time off (formal or otherwise).
Also, to the commenters who do not understand this – the guy is working Big Law. He is not worth what they are paying him based on his skills. What Big Law buys for those outrageous starting salaries is your time – 24/7/365 except for legally mandated leaves. If you are lucky the culture of the firm is that they only cash that chip in when it is actually necessary for the work that has to be done rather than to satisfy the ego of a partner or account for the partner’s lack of time management skills. If someone wants work/life balance, they can make half the money at another firm.
OP – If your firm has actual PTO rather than the scam that is “unlimited PTO”, I would tell him he needs to take it if he is not going to be available to work. But he is not likely to make his hours so won’t be your problem for long if he does not wise up.
Anon
I agree with this.
Anon
Completely agree.
Peloton
You’re being too hard on him. And by being hard on him in this specific way, you are perpetuating a culture that mostly harms women. And by being hard on him in this specific way on this specific forum, you are telling the next generation of female lawyers to internalize that they need to pick between their career and their kids, which 1) isn’t true and 2) results in fewer female partners at Am Law 100s. I guess 2) is net good for your career, but it’s not good for others.
Peloton
To be clear, I think you should talk to him about how to message his availability, and about the expectations of big law generally. If your post was just about that, I would have no criticisms. But you are also complaining about someone taking parental leave that the firm chose to offer (with no “must have worked x months first” clause), and that’s shitty. Either change the firm’s policy or accept it.
Anon
And it is a message that is better if it goes to all associates from your office head (and firm head, but your office knows who works on YE work better). Over and over again. If your senior person needs you, they will move on if they can’t get you when needed. Clients don’t call us because they want to, it’s because they generally have to. And if they can’t reach us, they go elsewhere. IDK junior associates think that they get to live by different rules in this game. If they don’t like it, they should do the honest thing and resign vs letting their co-workers pick up the slack for their quiet quitting.
FWIW, IDK any solo practitioners who work like junior associates, either. They are hustling even more than BigLaw.
Peloton
I completely agree with this. This is basic client service. Why would I trust you to manage a client relationship if you can’t manage ours?
THAT is the teaching point for the junior. The teaching point for OP is — you’re a partner. If you don’t like that a stub year took parental leave under your firm’s policy, advocate to have the policy changed in some way. Both firms I’ve worked at have allowed juniors to do a delayed start in January if their life circumstances so required. It’s extremely common, and I don’t know why it wasn’t the plan here.
Anon for this
Yeah, I get the annoyance on the massive amount of time off but also would coach on the lack of transparency re: availability.
I’ll say it – women know they will be judged and take it into consideration. Men get a pass. This is why I would personally be annoyed even though I think it should be more level.
Anon
1000% agree to your last para.
Seventh Sister
Honestly, I wouldn’t go out of my way to be helpful to this guy in the future. But my reason wouldn’t be about the paternity leave, it would about backtracking on his availability.
Anon
FHL. (The H standing for his)
I have never been happier to have moved out of the US after grad school.
Anonymous
Any man who takes paternity leave and makes himself unavailable on holidays when he is being paid $200K per year with no useful skills is totally clueless. No woman would do this.
Anon
Disagree – the canoe trip associate who posted here a couple years ago was presumably female, and that was way more tone deaf, imo. The trip was over a less major holiday (Canadian Thanksgiving pales in comparison to Christmas), and she had a huge deadline while she was going to be out of pocket.
Anonymous
This sounds like a young person’s misunderstanding of how to set “boundaries.” If you are really setting a boundary you do it—“I will be on PTO and unavailable these dates.” He is trying to get credit for “working” while not actually working, and at the same time signaling that he is a family man. Sorry, dude, but you can’t have it both ways. Either you are available (as you should be because you are an overpaid peon with no skills who is being paid for availability) or you aren’t.
Kittens*and*Butterflies
Well said.
Anonymous
My mother spent thousands of dollars she doesn’t have on very luxe and very useless gifts for me. I asked her to return at least some of this stuff and she said it’s not returnable, but really that means she doesn’t want to return it. The retailer requires the OG packaging and the slip, which I don’t have, and they don’t have brick and mortars in this country so I can’t even beg and plead with a person to take this stuff back. There is no real resale market. She’s done this before but not on this level; it’s usually a few hundred not a few thousand dollars of waste.
My mother won’t admit this to me, but I know my brother gives her money every month. He will be furious at me for accepting the gifts. I asked her to please return at least some of the stuff, I’ll even help, but she continues to lie that it’s not returnable. Meanwhile my husband thinks I’m being ungrateful. My stepdad thinks I’m a spoiled brat because my mother spends so much and I don’t appreciate it. Basically, I’m in the doghouse with every important man in my life. I have tried to talk to her, there is no getting through to her. I seriously want to shred all her credit cards. Is there anything I can do?
Anon
At some point you have to accept that your mother is going to spend money the way she wants to spend money. It’s time to drop it over this year’s gifts. There’s a reason you’re in the doghouse with just about everyone else. Stop it now.
anon
You don’t need to mention that you know he gives her money, but I’d at least tell your brother that you’ve asked her to return the gifts.
Kittens*and*Butterflies
+1
No Problem
Have you told your brother what your mom bought you, and how much it cost? Does he know that this is how she’s spending the money he gives her, and does he approve? And your stepdad should be told that unless the purpose of the money from your brother is to buy you thousands of dollars of useless gifts, he should be agreeing with you that your mother should be putting that money toward her living expenses instead of extravagant gifts you never asked for and don’t want.
BTW, your husband also needs to learn what ungrateful really means. It means wanting something other than what was given, or something more expensive, rather than wanting nothing or something cheaper (which it sounds like you would have preferred). If someone told me I was ungrateful for receiving, I dunno, a whole bunch of pet food and pet care accessories (I don’t have any pets and will never get one), I’d tell him he’s out of his mind.
JD
I wonder if the husband has his own weird family dynamics where he can only see the gifts as loving attention and not a shopping addiction/control issue, etc. When people go no contact with messed up family, partners with healthy family dynamics often don’t understand it. I wonder if this is the reverse, where the husband also comes from a family with issues where this gifting feels like love to him. Or perhaps gifting is his own love language. Either way, he needs to keep out of it.
OP, you seem pressed that everyone is piling on you. However this is likely frustration with not being able to change your mom’s behavior. You can set up boundaries and refuse to accept their feelings in return.
Cat
I mean, is there a possibility that she’s right? A lot of high end retailers will do “final sale” treatment if something is heavily discounted, plus places like The Real Real vary by piece on the return status.
Anyway, it sounds like you need to stop with the crusade as it’s doing nothing but annoying your mom and stepdad even if it is more than she should spend. If you’re on the record with your bro as knowing he gives her money, then you can level with him quietly- “hey, I appreciate that mom wants to spoil me, but I know you’re the source of her ability to do that. I’m trying to persuade her to do a lower-key Christmas but she’s telling me I can’t return or exchange anything – any insight??!”
Your husband sounds weird here. Ungrateful for not wanting your parent to spend money they don’t have on you? In the words of the inimitable Hermione Granger, just because he seems to have the emotional range of a teaspoon does not mean you can’t both simultaenously (1) think luxe gifts are fun to receive and (2) know that she shouldn’t be buying them for you, dude!!
smurf
No advice on your husband’s weird reaction but honestly I’d just tell your brother you tried & failed to get your mom to return anything and then let it gooo. Have the conversation next year with mom about a lowkey Christmas (I think setting a theme, like everyone does 1 secret santa with $X limit, helps over-gifters more than just saying ‘less’) but I think what’s done is done. It’s also weird your stepdad takes issue with you, not your mom’s spending habits, but I don’t think that’s on you to handle.
roxie
If this puts you in the doghouse with every important man in your life, I’m questioning these men…
No, you can’t control another adult’s spending.
You could literally refuse to accept the gifts, leave them at her house, drop them in her mailbox, whatever, but that doesn’t sound like it will solve any problem.
Can you enlist your brother to support you on this and tell him to put a condition on the money he gives her every month that it no be spent on gifts?
Anon
Nope. You alone can’t change another adult’s behavior and the sooner you learn that lesson the happier you will be.
Peloton
Don’t open the packages and refuse delivery of them so they are returned to sender. Both UPS and FedEx allow you to do this online.
No Face
I was going to subject you to a large rant about my spendthrift mother and her terrible financial decisions, but it’s not worth the energy. When she does something like this, I have a small rant in my mind and then move on. Spending is really an addiction for her, and nothing I say can cure her.
If you like the gifts keep them. If you don’t, resell. If you can’t resell, Goodwill. Making a big production about not accepting will just make this take up more of your life.
You also need to let go of whatever the financial relationship is between her and your brother. He can choose whether to give her money and how much. Not your circus.
Anon
This is exactly right. I suspect the “huge rant” you decided not to go on is exactly what OP has been doing, and at some point, you just have to accept and move on. Great response by you.
Anon
Seems like it’s time to have a direct conversation with your brother – say mom got me all these expensive gifts and I know you give her money and she can’t afford them but she can’t or won’t return them. He gets to decide what he does with this information. If there anything you two can do to help your mom deal with whatever is behind this problem, offer to get on a joint call with him and mom to discuss that together as a family. Beyond that, not much you can do. Regift or donate the gifts if they’re upsetting to have or you won’t use them.
Your husbands behavior actually bothers me the most – seems like he’s being really ignorant of the dynamics at play here. Not sure what to do about that.
Anon
Help me find a perfume? With the caveat that I won’t wear it on a daily basis out of respect for scent-sensitive colleagues, I’d like to find a perfume that I can wear on special occasions.
I’m 40, willing to spend a decent amount for a quality perfume and oddly enough receive regular compliments about how my hair smells (I use Pantene anti-frizz serum.) I think the scent notes of that product are maybe a subtle musk or mild gourmand/similar to what MorrocanOil products smell like perhaps? I also am drawn to aquatic/fresh scents, but think a musk/tobacco/gourmand scent it more what I’m looking for. Preference for an Italian line, if possible (I.e. Aqua di Parma, Armani, Prada, D&G.)
Alternately, what is/are your go-to scents or which can you absolutely not stand?
Anon
I would go to a perfume counter/Sephora/Ulta and smell samples!
Anon
Have you smelled Kiehl’s musk? The Body Shop has a well known one also (the white musk). They’re iconic for a reason.
If you’re open to more unisex scents like this, Armani Privé Bois d’Encens is very well crafted. I just saw that there an Armani Privé discovery set at Neiman Marcus. That could be fun.
But there is no substitute for going in person and wearing a scent on your skin for a while to see how it works on you.
Shelle
Moroccanoil sells a body fragrance! I love the scent.
Anonymous
I treated myself to a few high end sample kits. It was fun and I found a favorite in a few weeks.
Sasha
You’ll want to go to a perfume counter at a department store and get some samples. It’s almost impossible to give useful perfume reccs since fragrances are so personal–they smell different over time than they do right out of the bottle, and your personal body chemistry and other scented products you wear will impact how it wears on you.
In general, if you like musk/tobacco/gourmand, take a look at colognes too! I also am partial to that scent family and half my fragrance section is unisex colognes
Anon
Just wanted to say thank you for considering us scent-sensitive colleagues, I appreciate you mentioning it.
I can’t enjoy perfume anymore but I glad you are.
Anon
*am glad.
Anonymous
Maybe try OilPerfumery for 10 ml roll-on dupes and make up your mind?
Just ordered 5 for myself…
Anonymous
I would recommend getting some of the sets that are out right now and seeing what you like. Penhaligons, Creed, Kilian, Le Labo, Byredo, Replica… those are some of the names I’d look for. I’d avoid anything sold at Sephora but that’s me.
Anon
I’m wondering if you might like Wood Sage and Sea Salt from Jo Malone. It’s an eau de Cologne so it’s not going to be strong or have a ton of lasting power – it’s that way by design. If you like it and want more oomph from it, buy the matching body crème.
anon
Tom Ford Tobacco Vanille
Micallef – Gaiac
Le Labo – The Noir
Anon
Have you ever smelled Creed perfumes? They have a large selection and many (most) are natural smelling, not chemically smelling. I buy at N-M.
A
I love Acqua di Parma. I like magnolia but they have some wonderful scents.
Kittens*and*Butterflies
maison francis kurkdjian baccarat rouge 540. I’ve never worn it without getting a compliment from a stranger.
He also has an Aqua scent that I love.
Anonymous
I’m looking for some new goal tracking sheets – I’m 40s, don’t usually do new years resolutions, have gotten to the stage where I don’t beat myself up anymore if I “fail” to meet a goal. I’d really like to track a few things in 2024 that are meaningful to me. I do better with hard copy compared to electronic. Something about “seeing it” makes it better. I think I need a few different colors – i.e., to track movement, if I do yoga or walk, I’d have a pink dot vs. an orange dot for running or boot camp class. Some goals are one per month, some are one per day. I’d love to frame a few around the house to make them more visible so looking for something “pretty” instead of just a basic simple printed calendar from Excel! Willing to download or print/ship; it’s OK if I don’t get them right on 1/1.
dogs
Grab one of those spiral habit trackers (silk and sonder have some, but there’s also some generics available on Am. azon that work perfectly. Grab some nice colored pencils too and BOOM. :)
Anonymous
Check out the Clever Fox Planners
Anon
I like Panda Planners.
Anonymous
Hello fellow folks working today!
What are you most proud of yourself for doing in 2023?
What piece of advice do you desperately want to share, whether to the world writ large or a specific individual?
I’ll start. Small, but I stopped sleeping with my phone and it has improved my sleep, decreased anxiety, and encouraged me to make other screen time goals in 2024.
Advice: refusing to face something head on because it’s hard or uncomfortable rarely works in the long term.
Beans
Love this!
Most proud:
I finally disentangled myself from my emotionally abusive ex-husband. Dealt with his harassment for half the year (still ongoing) but made it through. Dated a lovely man for several months.
Advice:
Maintaining female friendships is key. Would not have made it through the year without my friends.
Anon
Huge – congratulations!
Anon
Hugs and congratulations!!
Anon
I’m working full time while in grad school, paying for it out of pocket (on my 80k salary, while also paying all of my other expenses myself), and dealing with some health issues.
I’m proud that I’ve gotten this far without needing help, but I’m also proud that I did the right thing for my health and dropped a class last semester when it wasn’t feasible to keep firing on all cylinders all of the time. This pushes back my graduation date, but it’s better to be less stressed and healthy than graduate on time. I’m proud that I’ve matured enough to accept when I need to make a change rather than just suck it up and power through.
Anonymous
You’re a champ! Doing all that!
But, even better, you get that success is a marathon and not a sprint!
Anonymous
I’ll play…
Most proud: working through some bitterness over family history.
Advice: no one actually cares as much as they want the internet to believe that they do.
Anonymous
Good for you!
smurf
most proud: making it through. 2023 SUCKED. Multiple cancer and other serious health diagnoses in our families, partner laid off, intensely awful family drama, losing our beloved dog … this year was trash for me personally but I’ve made it through with my mental health mostly intact.
advice: being frugal to the point of living without ever treating yourself is no way to live. You can’t take it with you.
Peloton
Woof, what a year you’ve had. Cheers to it almost being over, and may 2024 be kinder to you!
Peloton
What are you most proud of yourself for doing in 2023? I made a career shift based on how I want my life to be now, after years of prioritizing my finances first. The former facilitated the latter, and I think both priorities can be right for someone at different periods of life. I’m really proud of past me for keeping my head down and my budget realistic, and I’m really proud of current me for having the confidence to execute on a pivot that felt right to me but didn’t “make sense” to a couple mentors.
What piece of advice do you desperately want to share, whether to the world writ large or a specific individual? If you want the world’s best trashy food combination on a plane or train, get a gas station fruit and cheese plate — a bag of (normal) Skittles mixed with a bag of Cheez-Its. I’m tempted to apologize for how low-brow this advice is, but the combo is really good, so whatever.
Anonymous
Omg, I will be trying your fruit and cheese plate!
Way to do what you needed for your life! Sometimes mentors were on such a specific path so long, they don’t understand when someone steps off the path.
Anonymous
I had a very fast (<1hr of contractions), second birth and accidentally gave birth at home with my husband assisting. But is was fine! I had an easy recovery! When it doesn't go wrong, bodies are very strong and resilient.
Separately, keep up your work network! Your network gets you most jobs.
Anon
Proud of:
Took on ownership of a new to me business line. Gave us better visibility into a vendors data set thats been mismatched from our internal data.
Advice: send the damn email/slack/text/phone call. Ripping the bandaid off and putting the issue out into the unviserse is so much better than trying to sweep it away or handle it alone.
Anon
I’m in the market for a new car and I’m looking for something with AWD because my whole family lives off of I-81 where roads are often paved but driveways are often not (plus is is hilly and the weather can lead to rotten roads for 6 months of the year). I’ve always had RWD or FWD cars (and cars or minivans). Now that I’m looking, I get reels of serious offroading, lifted SUVs, etc. I don’t want to ask someone trying to sell me a car, but what does AWD really get you compared to a FWD car? I get that it’s safer if you have a wheel spinning in mud on an unpaved driveway. And other than needing to traverse rocks (something I did poorly once driving off-road in the dark, so I do know that sort of damage and what it cost to fix), do I really need any more height than a standard minivan / RAV4? 5 days a week it will be a city car in a parking deck, but it will be offroad on weekends.
Cat
we rent AWD small/midsize SUVs for ski trips where the main roads are usually in decent shape but not side roads or driveways, since as you note it helps with slippery driving. That said 90% of the time we turn it off as unnecessary and save the fuel. We’re also not traversing paths with huge rocks that require a lot of clearance, like a Jeep, as compared to a regular old SUV.
Anon
I have tried to “build” vehicles online to get a sense of what they are, what I want, and what they cost. For the Toyota Sienna (IIRC, the only AWD minivan), the option is just AWD or not. For any truck or giant SUV, even if still Toyota, once you go down that route, then there are million options like light bars and skid plates (IDK what those even are) and such. They all look fun, but they never explain what these do or what you need them for. All I know is that I don’t need dual rear wheels, I’m not hauling a horse trailer (which has more mechanical / braking needs), but I might haul a U-haul trailer or help my parents move furniture out of the house (New Hampshire).
For you Jeep people, do you go on those off-road Jeep treks? Those seem fun and like maybe you do need something more than a mall crawler (per my Texas friends) for that.
anon
Just get a subaru.
Anon
OP here — my Subie hesitancy is that the dealer is a bit far from me, so any under-warranty work or work I’d want done at the dealer will be a PITA. Different story if I got a used one I could get fixed at the garage near my house. I did think of them — but current car has been in for dealer-specific things a lot this year and PITA of owning for maintenance is now factoring in a bit more than on prior car buys.
Betsy
I live in an area that sounds similar to your family and currently drive a Subaru. In the same area, I’ve previously driven a Toyota RAV4 and a Honda CRV, and all three were comparable for driving on local roads during springtime snowmelt road conditions. These are roads that get bad enough for a few weeks a year that they are technically closed and it feels pretty similar to driving off road! Ground clearance absolutely matters in those circumstances, but if the roads are so bad that you can’t travel them in a CRV or a RAV4, you should probably be skipping your visit that weekend!
anon
Unless you have really bad luck, you should not be bringing a subaru that’s under warranty the the dealer very often. A used subaru is almost the price of a new one. They hold their value very well, so unless you’re buying one that’s quite old, you might as well get one under warranty.
Anonymous
I have a Subaru that’s had multiple warranty issues. My independent Subaru mechanic says that since about 2011 they just haven’t been made well and are unreliable. I will never buy another.
Anon
I have heard this a lot here. Used to be good cars. Then something changed.
Anon
Ours is a 2020 and we’ve had zero issues. We also had a 2019 leased and actually made money buying it and then reselling bc the resale value is so good.
anonn
is your current car a Subaru? I’ve had maybe 1 recall and no warranty issues in the 6 years I’ve had mine.
Anon
AWD gives marginal safety gains at the expense of fuel economy and higher purchase price/maintenance costs. That’s really it.
Unless you’re a first responder, if conditions are bad enough that you aren’t comfortable driving a FWD or RWD car, then you should not be out on the road in the first place.
Safety in poor weather is being prepared with adequate food (medication, coffee, beer, etc) such that you don’t need to drive while the roads are truly bad, not buying an AWD vehicle.
Anon
Thanks for the finger-wag, Karen.
Anon
Some of us aren’t made of money, and AWD pushes up the costs of ownership disproportionately to any of the miniscule safety benefits. Benefits that can also be had by sitting your butt at home when the weather turns treacherous.
You don’t need AWD to get out of your driveway and go to the grocery store in the winter. That’s marketing and people are falling for it hook, line and sinker. The car industry is really, really good at marketing.
Anon
I love how you are all-knowing. And you must speak from a rutted hilly gravel country road, so if your vehicle works for you, we should all follow suit. Pls let me know what this week’s Lotto numbers are.
No Problem
But the OP isn’t talking about getting out of her city driveway in the winter, she’s talking about unpaved roads and driveways in the mountains. And she also didn’t say anything about an AWD vehicle being out of her budget. Having grown up on a typical suburban street in the midwest that was a minimally steep hill, there were absolutely times when the snowplows didn’t come for days and the only way to get up the hill was AWD. I remember watching out the window one day as car after car got halfway up the hill and then their wheels started spinning and they had to back down the hill and go around the long way (luckily there was another road out of the neighborhood). Which vehicles made it up the street? The ones with AWD.
Anon
My mom lives 500 feet down a gravel driveway in a small town where roads may never be plowed. So, yeah, she does find it significantly safer. I wrecked 2 cars in that town (1 totaled) from just barelyyyyy skidding off the road in snow and ice, and hitting a tree and a guard rail. Probably wouldn’t have skidded so much and lost control if I had AWD.
Anon
I make do just fine in the rural upper Midwest in a freaking Prius. It handles better in our deep winter snow than the Jeep it replaced, and literally gets 4 times as many miles to the gallon.
Anon
It seems from one of the comments that it can be an on-demand option, so I don’t understand the hate here. Lots of AWD cars and SUVs are hybrids, so I doubly don’t get this take.
Cat
Yes- there was a dedicated button for it to turn on and off so unless you’re driving it on regular roads turned on, you’re not wasting the fuel. I don’t remember the specific car we rented (it was one of those choose your own vehicle from this area of the Hertz lot type rentals) but can try to figure it out if the OP needs the info.
Explorette
It does not sound to me like you will be “offroad” on weekends, but that you are driving on non-paved roads. Offroad means no roads, like climbing up mountain sides or rock crawling in the desert. If you are just driving on dirt roads that get a little washed out, a rav4 or subaru will be just fine.
Anon
OP here — this is helpful! I guess I’ve become such a city person that I didn’t appreciate the difference but it now makes sense how you’ve broken that out. This hopefully steers me away from the giant SUVs that have winch, etc. options, which I would like for the tow truck to have but don’t think I’ll regularly need even out in the country.
Anonymous
AWD is perfect for slippery, icy, wet, and/or unplowed roads and driveways. The amount of clearance you need really depends on how uneven the roads and driveways are.
Anon
I’ve had such great luck driving my 2012 Ford Fusion with AWD. It’s a sedan, so I can’t go through deep snow (and don’t have reason to). But it has much better stopping power in slush and snow. I don’t coast through stop signs like I did for 15 years of driving before I bought it.
If you’re concerned about the cost, try buying a 1-3 year old car that was turned in after a lease. It’s what I’ve always done. I know it was maintained and it’s low mileage, and significantly cheaper than a new car.
Kittens*and*Butterflies
All Tesla models have AWD available. Not all are outrageously expensive. You’ll never miss NOT stopping at the gas station.
Anonymous
If you use a phone privacy screen protector that you like, would you please share the brand or a link? I’ll check back this afternoon. I have an older iPhone and have tried two from Amazon. Both were inexpensive and whatever the companies use to tint/shadow seemed to get warped or maybe just messed with my vision.
Anonymous
Sorry – I did a nesting fail. Gift help? cousin is getting married in a few months to their long term partner (second marriage, both in their 50s). I was thinking nice champagne flutes but I don’t know if they drink. Would like to spend around 200 – looking for a classy thoughtful gift but I don’t know their interests very well
Anon
I would do a GC to a restaurant they like; even better if there’s a popular restaurant group in their area that does GCs (for example, if they’re in Philly a GC to Stephen Starr or Schulson Collective).
Anon
My husband and I received beautiful heavy crystal champagne flutes for our wedding (second marriage for each of us) and while I do love them in theory, they live in their special box 364 days per year and only come out on our anniversary. It’s sweet and sentimental, but they are somewhat impractical.
Echoing the other response, those gift cards to local restaurants were really nice to receive! My husband, at that time, was the kind of guy who would always go for the cheapest thing on the menu whenever we went out because he was so used to being broke. Having generous gift cards to restaurants meant he could (and should) order whatever actually appealed for him so that we could actually use the entire amount of the card!
Anonymous
Counterpoint-I use my champagne flutes frequently. They’re beautiful and I have several mismatched pairs and they come out for mimosas and parties and anytime sparkling wine is served, which is frequently. What can I say? I’m a bubbly gal.
I’m a bit sheepish about restaurant gift certificates because I feel cheap using them and I’m always scared the waiter is going to tell me there’s some catch and now I’m footing the bill for a meal I wouldn’t have otherwise ordered. Even when all goes well I’m still on the hook for a sitter and the amount the gift doesn’t cover. Or there is some leftover and I feel guilty not going back or I go back and buy the bulk of another meal I might not have otherwise bought. Not that I’d be sad to get one, any gift if super kind and appreciated but I think people can differ on this.
Anon
I’m guessing this couple will not need a sitter, although I could be wrong. Feeling guilty about leftovers is definitely a you thing.
Anon
I think you are thinking of restaurant coupons. A gift certificate for, say $150, cost the person who bought it for you $150. There is no discount or exclusion. It’s the same as cash.
Cat
I agree with Anon at 3:54 — this isn’t like a Groupon situation where no one paid “full price” for the meal. A gift card is a cash equivalent. At most, the person who ordered it might have gotten a small “thank you” gift card (like $10 or $20 per $100 purchased) but it wouldn’t affect how yours is valued.
We LOVE restaurant GCs as gifts! If you post the couple’s location I bet people can provide good suggestions.
Please no random glassware unless it’s from an easy-return major retailer and you include a gift receipt.
Anonymous
I’m anon at 202 and I had I guess different experiences growing up in a struggling small town with lots of local restaurants. Theyd give gift certificates away at charity auctions and my dad was always winning them and suspecting, probably correctly, that the struggling owner was crossing fingers they wouldn’t be used. But he’d give the to me. As a teen I was always trying to use them and getting the third degree as to where I got it or being told they don’t work at lunch or during weekends. I still never trust that someone’s going to honor one until the bill comes. It’s a me thing but yeah it’s not my favorite gift . Just one person’s opinion, obviously, its a pretty universally recommended gift and it’s not my personal favorite. I hope it’s still ok to offer a different perspective here. I get that my personal preference isn’t everyone’s.
Anon
Yeah, if you do this, please make sure the gift card will cover a nice meal at whichever restaurant you pick! We got an incredibly generous gift card for a Michelin-starred tasting menu place, but we still had to pay $200 on top of that for the most basic menu without wine pairings. We could afford it, and obviously the meal would have cost a LOT more without the gift card, but it was still sort of weird that we had to spend a significant amount of our own money to use a gift.
No Problem
If they have a registry, get something off the registry. If not:
-gift card to a local restaurant
-gift card to local concert venue, if they go to concerts frequently
-if they drink wine, selection of 2-3 bottles of very nice wine
-nice knife and cutting board set, if they do any amount of cooking
Anonymous
If you don’t know their interests very well then stick with cash.
We got a few useless gifts when we got married as 20 somethings and first timers, so I would imagine the chances would be much higher for 50 somethings on their second go round.
Anonymous
I am 49 and could imagine getting married in my 50s. I would feel really weird taking cash from anyone in my generation or below, including friends, unless there were a very large wealth disparity and my husband and I were struggling. I would at least want instructions as to how to spend it (e.g., this is for a special dinner/excursion/souvenir on the honeymoon, wherever you choose).
Anonymous
This must be a regional/cultural thing. Where I live giving cash has been the norm for a long time,regardless of the couple’s ages or how many previous marriages.
Anonymous
Membership to local museum or national park?
Anon
We got married when we were 50 and 54, second marriage for both, kids on one side. We did not register and asked for no gifts. When people insisted in 1:1 conversations before the big day, after a few rounds of “no, really, no gifts,” we had two non-profits in mind to which we asked people to give for causes that are meaningful to us. Long way of saying that you could give in their name to something meaningful to them and have a certificate mailed to them (it won’t show the amount).
Anon
Someone gifted us a pair of beautiful Simon Pearce hurricanes for our wedding this summer. We were using them a lot the last few weeks and I wanted to clean the wax out to put in ew candles. The top internet search result said to pour boiling water in so I did that and within seconds, they cracked in half, horizontally. I looked up the care instructions and they specifically say not to do that. I feel so so so stupid, and am so mad at myself. I also just found out how expensive they were, which doesn’t help.
Shouldn’t have trusted the top internet result without more research!!
smurf
Omg I’m so sorry! One of those times you wish you had a rewind button!!
I got one of the trees for Christmas previously and about fell out of my seat when I saw how expensive it was (looking it up to consider getting more)
CR
This is awful! So sorry to hear. I’ve done this type of thing with a pricy gift before. If you can afford it, replace them yourself. For me, the money I spent was worth diminishing the bad feelings I felt about making the mistake to lose the gift.
Anonymous
I’m a single parent currently living in a one bedroom apartment and sharing the bedroom with my child. They are getting older and I’d like to have the option of giving them privacy/their own room. However, I can’t figure out how to « hide » or section off my bedroom in the living room. I have plenty of open living space that could be sectioned off but am prohibited from building false walls or hanging anything from the ceiling. I’ve been on a ton of apartment/small space sites but can’t find a setup that would seem to work. Open to a futon or foldaway bed if it’s comfortable enough for nightly sleeping. My kid is particularly sensitive to the idea of their friends coming over and asking « why is there a bed in the living room »? Moving to a two bedroom in our HCOL area is not an option— I’m at the top of my budget already.
roxie
Have you searched for folding screens? you could tuck your bed behind that
alternatively, there are lots of people who use big shelves to tuck a bed behind in studio apartments, with lots of greenery and other things on the shelves so it still lets light in but really offers separation.
Lastly, I appreciate your kid might feel sensitive to this but also building resilience is not a bad thing. I wouldn’t go nuts hiding your bed because a mean kid might make fun of it, but that’s just me.
Anonymous
Put up some nice folding room dividers and teach your kid how to be less sensitive about it.
Or, just set up your bedroom in part of the living room without hiding it, because you’re a single parent living in a one bedroom and your kid needs their own space. Just learn not to care what anyone thinks.
Anon
I’d just keep in mind that sleeping space and private space don’t need to be the same thing. You could give your child a space of their own without it necessarily containing a bed. That might be easier to manage?
anon
I agree if your child is hold enough to express embarrassment about a bed in the living room, they’re probably ready for their own room. Is a murphy bed allowed? Otherwise I’d get some folding screens or IKEA kallax shelves and corner off a separate sleeping area for yourself.
Cat
Would a Murphy bed for you be feasible? When closed, they look like wall cabinets.
Senior Attorney
Yes and they have small ones that look like a chest: https://www.amazon.com/murphy-chest-bed/s?k=murphy+chest+bed
Anon
Could you bear to sleep in a twin bed? You can get a daybed and use a ton of pillows to make it look more like seating. I also like the idea of a screen to create privacy for you. At least with a daybed you’re getting a real mattress that hopefully won’t kill your back.
Anon
Was thinking the same – my folks have a day bed that I nap on regularly when visiting, there are some really good ones
And I get the comments on teaching your kid to be more resilient but I also hear where your kid is coming from. Not everything needs to be a teachable moment, and if you can make it so they feel comfortable bringing friends over while still being comfortable yourself I think that’s worth it.
Anonymous
One of the main things I learned being a parent is that *every* moment is a teachable moment, even when we think it isn’t (or don’t want it to be) because kids learn from watching us from the sidelines as much as they do from anything else.
Anon
Can you move to a different 1BR in a building that does allow false walls?
anon
How about sectioning the bedroom with a room divider if it’s big enough to have two beds (2 twins or 1 twin and 1 full). Either way, whether you divide the bedroom or living room there are tension rod dividers like the Versailles-Home-Fashions-Versailles-6-10-ft-Walnut-Adjustable-Room-Divider at HomeDepot. Wayfair will have similar. It goes from floor to ceiling but it’s a tension rod system that doesn’t require drilling nails and will stay put better than a free standing divider
Anonymous
Make up mom’s “reading nook” in the living room. To decide where, sit on the sofa where your child and friends will sit. If the space you can section off is in front view, use a sectioning shelf in a way that makes them look at the shelf, bed hidden from view (L-shape with part of the shelf). If its at the side, again, use the shelf as buffer, bed either parallel or L-shape.
Look at the IKEA Hemnes daybed that will pull out to a double. Your bedding is stored in the drawers underneath.
In daytime make it up as a reading nook, with a standing reading light, a small table for your mug, maybe a plant, a footstool, blankets…. And use a sturdy, freestanding book shelf as a room divider, enforcing the reading nook look as well as making the area more private. The Kallax at IKEA is an excellent room divider. Maybe add a light but slightly padded chair to make a grouping with the reading sofa “for mom’s friends”.
Anonymous
IKEA Hemnes day bed + visible textured linens that don’t look like sheets + 4 or 5 throw pillows along the back and 2 bolsters one on each side. Consider painting the Hemnes, doing a monochrome look, or using non-bed fabrics for what is visible/throw pillows (velvet, damask etc). Then store the actual bed pillow, pjs, and extra blanket, and a sleeping mask in the drawers.
Also, if you are going to regularly sleep in the living room, buy blackout stickers and apply liberally. Also get blackout curtains for the living room (IKEA’s are great and you can easily hack a pinch pleat with their curtain pins and look $$$).
If your kid is going to be the one sleeping in the living room, what about a Japanese futon style bed. I have several friends whose elementary age kids use them and they roll away stashable in a closet.
AIMS
I like the day bed idea and alternatively would recommend a Murphy bed. There are portable options. I live in NYC where lots of people have to improvise and Murphy bed is a go to.
JD
I’ve seen some fairly sophisticated murphy beds for sale recently. If guests wouldn’t be over too often, that would let you put up the bed when you need more space. You could put a decent mattress in there and presumably be comfortable. The beds are often built into cabinets, so that would give you personal storage space too. I’d also put up screens to make it more your own space.
Anon
A sofa bed or a murphy bed seems like the easiest option, although not sure how you would do a murphy bed if your building is that restrictive. My husband had an incredibly comfortable sofa bed when he was living in a studio apartment when we got married. I think he got it at an italian furniture store that went out of business, but it had a mesh grid under the mattress, and the mattress was foam, not innerspring. We just gave it away this year and I’m still sad, but we needed a larger couch.
Would something like this work – it doesn’t go all the way to the ceiling: https://diyversify.com/products/mounted-l-shaped-room-kit?currency=USD&variant=42564232970464
Or this: https://diyversify.com/collections/room-dividers/products/partition-room-divider
Alternately, how likely is it to actually come back to haunt you if you illegally put up a false wall? I’ve probably lived in NYC too long but I would probably risk that.
Anon
I’d use a couple of IKEA’s Kallax bookcases in the 4×4 array, end to end. I’d get some of the basket insets and otherwise fill woth books, plants, etc. I’m 5’2″ and the top is eyeball height to me. You could extend the height with wmstacks of books, baskets, plants and such and get it up to about a 6 foot or so visual screen. They are $169 each
Thinking of OP
Thinking of OP from last week who was thinking of spending Christmas with her sister after husband was an a** last holiday (and maybe generally). Hope whatever you chose it was a good day.
Anon
Random recommendation to fellow pale skinned friends here – Shiseido Revitalessence Skin Glow foundation is so gorgeous and comes in several very pale shades. It goes on like skincare but gives decent coverage. I love it.
Pale-wise im someone who often finds drugstore brands in “fair” too dark, forget “light” – and I’m all the way in a 140 in this, with three shades below that available.
Gorgeous foundation. So glad I tried it.
jm
Reading the reviews now. That’s an impressive range! Thank you!
Anonymous
Any other real estate attorneys/people who work in real estate dealing with this headache of the cyber attack on/hack of First American Title Insurance? The underwriters and escrow agents I’m working with to close deals are doing a fantastic job, I just don’t like being the one person who is having to distribute the closing statements and send the updates.
Northern Lights Ideas
Has anyone under the age of retirement done a Viking cruise? 2024 is supposed to be the best year in decades for Northern Lights viewing and I found what looks like an amazing Viking cruise, which seems like a glorious way to see the lights (as opposed to huddling out in the cold like I did a few years ago in Iceland to try to see them). It’s pretty expensive and my boyfriend and I are around 35-40 years old. I’m assuming we’d be the youngest people on the boat, but anyone else do something similar and have any reviews or suggestions?
Alternatively, any great ideas for seeing the northern lights this year? I was originally planning on a week-long trip to Norway and then flying up to Tromso to spend a few days, but now that I have the cruise idea in my head, an overland self-planned trip isn’t sounding that exciting any longer.
Senior Attorney
I did a river cruise a few years ago, in my early 60s, and I was one of the youngest people on the boat! We were on a Trek bicycle trip on a Scenic river cruise, and the thing that made it great was the Trek guides and special cycling program every day. The excursions that were part of the “regular” river cruise were pretty blah (get on a bus, go into town, walk around in a too-large group with a guide). That said, the accommodations were good, the food was good, the service was great, and they had fun on-board entertainment every evening. One thing you could consider is going off on your own at each port of call and either having a private guide or just … going off on your own.
Anon
Yes my husband and I did a Viking cruise in our mid-30s as a last hurrah before TTC. We were probably the youngest people on board, but still enjoyed it very much. Viking very much caters to active people in their 60s, not people in their 80s with limited mobility. Almost everyone we met was well-traveled and interesting to talk to. You’ll be fine.
Anon
And Viking ocean cruises skew younger than Viking river cruises (we did ocean), so that’s something to keep in mind.
Cat
We haven’t done one, but a bunch of my parents’ friends (60s) have. They’re the kind of parents’ friends that are fun to catch up with — open minded, experienced travelers, inquisitive types that are interesting to talk to even though you probably would be youngest!
Anonymous
Some friends of mine took a Viking river cruise to celebrate the wife’s 50th birthday. They had a wonderful time but were the youngest on the boat by a couple of decades.
Anonymous
Did one with my Dad – so 50s and 70s – an ocean one. We both loved it. Interesting lectures, great excursions, good food.
Anon
I did a tall ship sailing trip with Classic Sailing in the arctic circle a few years ago and it was absolutely incredible. You may have to do a little research to figure out which trip has the best chance of seeing the lights – mine was in late July and definitely no lights, and it was still frigid on the open ocean at night. The accommodations are much less comfortable than Viking cruises (not so much a room as a berth), but as a result you’ll have fairly athletic people on board, and the groups are much smaller and more intimate. There were several people with young adult children when I went, but in my mid-30s I was the youngest paying my own way. One of the passengers brought a drone to take pictures with and they have some of the best shots, looking down on us from above.
Anonymous
You’ll have to huddle up in the cold on the ship as well – unavoidable if you want to see the Northern Lights, but of course much easier to nip inside and warm yourself.
There are loads of cruise bloggers, people who review and vlog from various kinds of cruises. I really like UK youtube blogger channel “Emma Cruises”. She’s younger than you, I would guess close to 30, and does thorough reviews from the perspective of a younger person. Reviews of food, rooms, entertainment, tips for different lines, etiquette, what are the other people like, all sorts of good information. She did a Northern lights cruise last winter, the video is called “Cruising into the Northern Lights”.
Anon
Just FYI that anyone with a big following is likely getting hosted (free) cruises and has an incentive to downplay the negative aspects, so it’s not where I’d look for objective reviews. Legally they’re supposed to disclose anything that’s comped but many people don’t. Cruise Critic is much more objective imo.
Anonymous
100 percent agree in principle, but from the videos by Emma that I’ve seen, she seems to be an honest cheapskate loving bargains, and who does disclose gifted cruises.
Anonymous
Emma Cruises gives a lot of negatives and doesn’t seem like she’s getting anything comped. She talks about weird cabins she picked to save money, etc.
Alaskanon
You have probably already thought of this but I will say it just in cases: think carefully about the time of year you are planning to take this trip and whether you’d like to be on a cruise at that time of year. As an Alaskan, we have visitors every summer that are disappointed that they don’t get to see the Northern Lights… in June…when there is about 21 hours of daylight. The best time of year to see the lights is when it’s clear and cold, often November to March. Which part of the trip would you like to prioritize- a good-weather scenic cruise or seeing the lights? They aren’t mutually exclusive but they aren’t guaranteed together.
Anon
Yes, this! Friends went to Iceland in June and were confused about why they didn’t get to see them. The sun barely goes below the horizon at that time of year! But any cruise sold as “northern lights viewing” will take the number of night hours into account. It looks like Viking’s Northern Lights cruises only operate January-March.
Manitoban
Alternative great idea for seeing the northern lights: come to Churchill, Manitoba. All sorts of fabulous hotels, a unique northern tundra environment, and depending on the time of year, you can combine it with seeing beluga whales or polar bears. Highly recommend a Zamboni out into Hudson Bay to walk around on ice floes, then take a piece of iceberg back to the hotel bar to have in a cocktail.
Anon
Not OP but do you have a rec for a polar bear safari company in Churchill? I’ve promised my daughter we can do this the year she turns 8, which is coming up quickly.
Anonymous
I’ve written about this before but here goes. My company has been doing layoffs the past few years. Rumor is that another round is coming in January. I’m fairly senior and somewhat well liked but I’ve been leapfrogged over for promotions these past few years. The pandemic and switch to wfh were very difficult for me. I’m making plans for a big lean in the early months of the new year but I’m questioning myself. Am I trying to get promoted to 1st mate on the titanic while it’s sinking? To make matters worse, none of my company competitors are willing to hire at my salary, except for one that was fairly lateral and passed on me when I was interviewing back in 2022. The beauty of my job is that it 100% wfh and pretty darn easy for me at this point. It seems too late, I’m 41, to start over but I do want to make more money and I feel like I’m languishing in this job. Am I just doomed ? I’m open to any insight. Thanks.
Senior Attorney
Just popping in to say 41 is in no way too late to start over. I left private practice and started a whole new career in government at about that age and it worked out spectacularly well for me.
PJ
Not doomed! You probably have >50% of your working life ahead of you. Pivot to something better!
Cat
what’s the harm in doing your best at your current job while looking around again? worst case is you get laid off anyway and have some recent stretch projects to talk about in interviews, and best case is you either get promoted or you’re in your groove to start a new job?
Anonymous
You have 25 more years to work. It is not too late!
Anon
Reposting from sales thread for visibility: Can anyone recommend a lug soled loafer, black leather, that they like? Currently eyeing Nautalizer Darry but reviews are mixed.
Anon
I have the Darcy and get lots of compliments. They are super comfortable too.
KJ
Sam Edelman
Anon
Help me style taupe suede shoes. I wear a lot of black, navy, olive, and burgundy and have black hair. I usually default to black shoes but and wondering if I should branch out to taupe.
Anon
I have taupe booties that I often wear. I think they’d match with any of the colors that you mentioned.