Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Luxury Collection 4-Way Stretch Bodysuit

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1. Per the generational complaint thread yesterday, how are millennials and Gen Z supposed to pay their dues and buy houses they can afford when remote work is on the chopping block? Until major companies offering decent salaries and benefits pick up and settle in Bumf*ck North Dakota, it seems like a “pick one” situation. As others pointed out, starter homes at affordable prices simply don’t exist anymore in many major metro areas. I did a quick Zillow search and the cheapest single family home in my city, which is considered “better bang for your buck” in my metro area and is a farther commute to compensate, is an $800,000 for 900 square feet fixer, built in 1941 and apparently last updated in 1981, and approximately 500 feet away from the interstate. There’s paying your dues and then there’s ludicrous, and it feels mean-spirited for generations that benefited from very different conditions to criticize younger people for wanting just a little more. I personally don’t know anyone who is lusting after dream real estate with any seriousness – they just want to see their full-time jobs allow for a home with 2-3 tiny bedrooms where they ideally will not get stabbed when they take the trash out. Is that so wild to yearn for?

   1. Oh, and the next cheapest option is $999,999. Looks nicer though.

   2. Well, you can live in a low-medium cost of living area without working remotely. Most of the Midwest and South is still pretty affordable. I’m more familiar with the Midwest than the South, but even Chicago is very reasonably priced compared to the coastal cities and Chicago is the most expensive part of the Midwest. There are plenty of good jobs in smaller Midwestern cities that are quite a bit cheaper than Chicago.
      I do agree housing prices are out of control, and I feel for people who grew up in places like the Bay Area and can’t afford to settle there (at least not without family help), but it’s not like you have to live in rural North Dakota to buy a decent house under $1M.

      1. True, but lately I’ve seen more criticism of young people moving away from their hometowns and then encountering childcare and elder care issues (“what did you expect when you left??”). It seems they just can’t win in the eyes of older generations, but it’s a shame that those Bay Area kids really don’t have a chance to stay local and build their futures where they grew up.

         1. Yeah, I don’t personally relate to complaints about kids moving away from home. Maybe because I didn’t grow up in a big city and my hometown didn’t really have job opportunities outside of a niche industry, but it was always understood I’d move away from home for college and not come back and my parents would move to me eventually if they wanted my help with eldercare (which they did). It seems especially unfair to complain about your kids moving away if you live somewhere where it’s impossible to buy a reasonably priced home.

            1. I don’t think it’s parents complaining about their kids so much as strangers having no sympathy for anyone who laments their lack of family support in this situation. To me, this is part of the larger trend of just being unsympathetic to everyone who isn’t you – see for example, all the comments about federal employees having “cushy” jobs that they should either go back to the office for or get fired from, etc.

            2. I agree about the trend towards lack of sympathy. I think it’s driven by economic and political forces that have consolidated power at the top over the past few decades, and encouraged by those who benefit. If your health insurance is expensive but covers nothing, you’re on your own to finance retirement subject to the whims of the stock market, you can’t find a decent job or afford to buy a home even if you do find one, you were forced to take out triple-digit student loan debt just to be able to earn a living, you have to pay thousands of dollars a month for substandard and unreliable child care, and you are forced to care for your aging parents, then of course you’re going to be bitter and individualistic.

         2. I’m Gen X and got the same criticism. I moved to an urban area for my career, which, as I graduated mid-recession, was really the only option. Then as I lived in an expensive urban area, I couldn’t afford home ownership until my 30s, which also led to criticism.

            This is not a totally new problem.

            1. As a Xennial who grew up in a big city, moving to low-mid COL areas for work was illuminating, but also difficult because I was a single woman of color over 30, secular, and neurodivergent, so the affordability came at a significant social cost. It was extremely hard to make friends because my peers were focused on family and friends they had known for decades.

      2. I live in Columbus Ohio. Even here, houses are wildly unaffordable. I’ve looked at jobs in Chicago, and houses in good school districts are also $$$. It’s expensive everywhere.

         1. Yeah I’m in Philly, the famously still affordable Northeast / Mid Atlantic city.

            I make 100k, which is as much as my parents make combined.

            I can hardly “afford” my rent (in that renting a not updated, fine but not great 1BR in a neighborhood easily accessible to Center City is absolutely more than 1/3 of my take home). Buying anything in any safe area or currently gentrifying area is not possible on my salary.

            I’m totally priced out of my hometown in the burbs.

            1. And Philly burbs are crazy expensive. A normal 3 bed 2 bath SFH fixer upper on a 1/4 acre built in the 60s-80s is $800k and still a 40+ minute commute if you’re lucky (which I understand isn’t the worst commute). Even townhouses are over $500k. There’s a newer development near me that STARTS at $600k right on a busy highway and it’s not even built yet. And they’re usually 3 stories, which means an awful lot of stairs for a young family, not to mention people with disabilities.

            2. Yeah I grew up in a close in working class suburb in Montgomery County. Growing up everyone’s parents had blue/pink coll@r jobs and now it’s 100% unaffordable for me, even though I alone make more than my parents do combined.

               They bought their house (3/2, no finished basement, small closets, very small kitchen and bathrooms that were super dated) for $150k about 30 years ago. Houses in their neighborhood now sell for somewhere between $500-900k.

               My parents have put a lot of sweat equity into the house over a long period of time (updated the kitchen (but they lived with the 70s brown appliances for 10 years!), added a third bathroom, finished the basement) so they’re thrilled about what they’ll get back when they sell (and I’m happy for them, the have to work til 70, so they deserve it) but yikes I can’t believe I’m priced out of where I grew up.

               Likewise, a friend bought a total fixer upper in Roxborough for $600k last year. They’re building some new construction near her where houses are selling for over $1 million. As we joke all the time -if I can pay $1 million for a house I’m sure as heck not living in Roxborough (and we both love the neighborhood warts and all – we both have like a century of family ties there…but I’m still not doing that).

            3. Desirable Philly suburbs are expensive, but there are still affordable suburbs. The close in, walk to the train station 3 bedroom 2 bath cape we sold five years ago for $160k is still only worth in the upper 200’s. Of course it is not a good school district if you have kids, but it was otherwise a perfectly fine place to live.

            4. Anon at 11:29 where were you? Upper Darby/Drexel Hill?

               I grew up in Glenside – desirable but not Main Line. Was very working class when I was growing up. My parents are still there in a fine but not nice or large house, but I”m totally priced out!

            5. I was very close to that area, just across the line into William Penn school district. If you don’t have to worry about school, it’s a solid option. I thought it would be hard to sell because the schools suck but we sold it very quickly with multiple offers. The buyer was a USPS mail carrier who definitely did not make six figures.

               I have friends with kids in Upper Darby schools and they say they’re fine. Even Springfield, which actually has good schools, still has some relatively affordable options.

            6. I’m in an expensive MontCo suburb (Wissahickon SD) and there’s essentially nothing under a million. We stretch to afford our house which we bought under lower interest rates for 600k.

         2. My family lives in one of these starter homes in northwest side of Chicago. You can buy them at $400k. But it’s a typical Chicago bungalow not Houzz showpiece

            1. How’s the school district?

            2. Not that poster, but the northern Chicago suburbs school districts are excellent in general.

            3. I grew up in Oak Park and that area was great and schools took me to Harvard. I’ll sell my parent’s house where I grew up there for $350k.

               Chicagoland is a relative steal right now, compared to the coasts (where I was living previously), but prices are rising fast too.

      3. I live in a LCOL area in the SEUS where a small-ish new build family home is running $750K. You could buy a shoddily built 30-year-old home for $500-600K but then you would have to replace the roof, kitchen, bathrooms, windows, entry doors, and HVAC. You can’t afford any of these options with a HHI less than maybe $250K, much more if you have child care expenses and/or student loans. And of course high interest rates are making it even more difficult.

         1. Lol, in my major metro area, the 30-year-old homes are better built. I agree with the points we made here, but we also do need to acknowledge the people standards are higher today. This whole metro area was a suburban collection of 1200 square-foot homes that people used to raise families in and now of course they want something different.

            1. There aren’t 1200-sf homes being built for those who want them, though.

            2. I have one of those 30-year-old homes and it’s just as cr@ppy as the new construction going up. The difference is that it’s had time to fall apart, and the new ones will be okay for the next ten years or so and not require major maintenance or renovation.

            3. My parents house was built in 1946, as part of the post WW2 boom. It’s better construction that anything after the 60s, but I think it’s markedly worse than something thats pre-war.

               I know that old houses are a labor of love, but I have no interest in a house that’s not at least 50 years okd

            4. In my SEUS city, there really aren’t very many houses built before the 60s and those that were build in the 1920s/30s have not been well maintained and are in rough shape. And most of the houses built in the 60s have been poorly flipped and are now hideous. So your options are buy something that needs a ton of work (either upfront or after uncovering shoddy flip work) for $550-700k or new construction for $750k+. An expensive roll of the dice in either case. It’s disheartening.

            5. At least in my (formerly affordable) area, smaller homes are being built in 55+ neighborhoods, which helps the boomers but – guess what? – not the people who need starter homes.

               I don’t know what the solution to this is, but I do believe the cost of housing is one of the reasons we have the current administration.

            6. Who actually thinks the current administration is going to do anything but make housing even less affordable? They have no clue how the economy works and are all about maximizing profits for the .000001%.

            7. I’m the person you’re responding to about the current administration. I don’t think they will do anything – and I certainly don’t mean to endorse them, I am not a supporter by any means – but I do believe many people voted based on their discontent, while not necessarily thinking critically about what needs to be done or who is prepared to do it.

         2. But you don’t have to replace all that. You can live with the dated, crummy kitchen, ditto the bathroom. You can live with substandard heating and cooling. I have. The only things you have to spend on are problems with the roof, foundation, plumbing, electrical or gas systems, or something that is a safety issue.

            1. This. It doesn’t all have to be perfect, and certainly not right away and all at once. I think the HGTV House Hunters / reno shows combined with insta/social influencers and content creators really corrupted my millennial generation.

               My first house was ugly as all hell, inside and out. I honestly hated it and was embarrassed by it’s aesthetics. But it was a stepping stone for us, and ended up being an incredible investment, selling it 5 years later for a $200k profit, and that was with it still needing every update you could dream of, including a new roof.

               I’m not trying to be simplistic. I live in HCOL area and entirely understand the challenges. They razed the perfectly fine 3br/2ba 1960s ranch next to me to build a ridiculous farmhouse monstrosity with black windows and all the modern gag-me bells and whistles. But, I also think (and know from experience in my own circle) that not everyone shares the view that a dated kitchen isn’t the same as a failing HVAC when figuring out if you can afford something, and I think that’s a problem.

            2. “Only” lol. Have you had major work done lately? Prices have skyrocketed. The “only” costs you’re talking about easily total $100k and you don’t even get to see the results.

            3. Hahaha no you can’t live with a broken HVAC system when it’s 9 degrees or 109 degrees outside. We get both extremes regularly.

            4. Yeah, no AC in a world where 100+ degree days are the new norm is a safety issue. You absolutely need good heat and cooling in this world today – that’s not a luxury.

            5. You can live with a broken hvac system for years and years and years if you and your spouse have executive disfunction. The wood burning fireplace has been a godsend the last few weeks.

            6. The reason you were able to sell that home at a $200K profit is the same reason why no one can afford to buy a starter home these days.

            7. Anon at 10:28, you are proving the point. The first-time home buyer is now expected to purchase your crummy home with all its deferred maintenance for $200K more than you paid. Now it probably has water damage and mold from the roof leaks, and they’ll have to pay to fix all of that in order for it to be habitable.

            8. Ehhh. We bought a 90s home for below market in our area. ($680k, better condition homes sell for $850/$900k). We knew the house needed some work but were expecting to be able to do it over time. We discovered a shower leak when we moved in that had rotted through our entire subfloor in our bathroom… so we ended up redoing that bathroom. (The previous owner definitely knew about the leak and kept trying to fix it themselves, but it didn’t show up on inspection.) Likewise, the kitchen wasn’t aesthetic, but we thought it was functional when we moved in… then the door started falling off of cabinets and our oven kept shutting off while I was using it.

         3. And if you don’t replace the roof right away, your homeowners insurance will drop you. They’ve been super aggressive lately about reinspecting houses right after closing. If the roof is more than 20 years old, they’ll send you a letter demanding you replace it within some ridiculously short time like 10 days or they drop you. You get squeezed from every direction.

            1. This hasn’t happened to me in the three homes I’ve owned in the last 10 years. All roofs are 20+ years old. Is this regional? I’m in a low-natural disaster region of the country.

            2. It’s been a new thing over the past year or so. Not sure if it’s regional, I’ve heard of it happening to friends or friends of friends in the mid Atlantic, northeast, So Cal, FL, and TX.

            3. Never heard of this in the Midwest.

            4. I bought and sold a house three months ago and this never came up AND I got insured without blinking with knob and tube wiring lol

               Mid-Atlantic. I have a ~1200 sq ft 120+ yr old house and paid ~$225k and sold my -~ 1200 sq ft 1950s house for $218k

               I work in an office not wfh.

      4. This. I love California and spent a good portion of my adult life there, but I don’t work in a field that pays a salary that would allow me to buy a house there, so ultimately I left and moved somewhere I could buy a decent house for much less than half the amount it would have cost to buy even the absolute crappiest condo in my old city. It is too bad for people that grew up in CA and can’t stay close to their families, but there are a lot of other places that are not California or the big East Coast cities, with jobs, lower cost of living, and high quality of life. If people in those places want their kids to be able to stay close, they should get their act together and actually let housing get built in their cities instead of throwing a fit every time someone wants to build anything.

         1. I should add, I actually do have a lot of sympathy for people complaining about housing prices. It sucks to get priced out and have to uproot your entire life to move somewhere else so you can afford a house, especially when prices spike so suddenly like they did in 2020-21. And it’s also true that housing prices have gone up a lot everywhere, not just the big coastal cities and that’s a huge problem that needs to be addressed. But I really specifically do not have sympathy for the old NIMBYs in California who have refused to let anything get built for decades now whining about how their kids can’t afford to live there, all the stores are closing because the workers can’t afford to live there, and that they can’t get doctor’s appointments because even the doctors can’t afford to live there. And in the meantime, every new single housing proposal in my city was still getting attacked by the same crowd.

         2. California is actually doing something about this; each urban town now has to allow for a proportional share of new construction. But it’s relatively new and not much has come online. The high interest rates have really slowed down construction.

            1. Yeah, I’m aware of this process (the Next Door comments on those proposals are the kind of thing I’m talking about), but it was clearly going to be years and years before anything got built, and all the stuff proposed in the near future for my city was just more apartments, which is good in general, but not very helpful for someone who had been ready to buy a condo or SFH before the pandemic price spike priced me out. I gave up and left last year.

            2. The stores in the Bay Area are closing due to crime and theft. We can’t get underwear from Target unless someone comes to unlock the case.

               Also, it is too expensive to build in CA and the regulatory burden is unreal. We will see this play out in the rebuilding of SoCal after the fires.

         3. I agree on all accounts. I grew up in California. If I had a trust fund or expected an inheritance, I would have stayed. I do not, so I live in the Midwestern suburbs and visit CA often. I could never replicate my lifestyle in CA. I have a 4 bedroom house, a ten minute commute, had as many kids as I wanted, vacation multiple times a year. Some of my other friends chose CA, so they are renting and have 0-1 child. Life has tradeoffs.

      5. It’s relative. The South may be cheaper than NY and CA, but average home price in my neighborhood is $345,000, a little less than $200,000 more than what I bought my 3/1 for 10 years ago. Household income is about $78,000. I couldn’t have started here. I would never have been able to afford rent.

   3. Not so wild to yearn for, but I do think part of this is that there’s always going to be /someone/ who disapproves of your choices, and the internet has supercharged that. I can’t waste my time trying to find a way to live that no one will blame me for (prioritize my job! also, why aren’t you married yet?? buy a house! take risks while you’re young! stop killing radio!!)

   4. For sure, current prices make things hard, but there are different ways that things can be hard. My first house was inexpensive by today’s standards, but it was still more than 2.5X my BigLaw salary plus bonus. More buts—and these are really big buts—it was a 12 foot wide row house, not a single family house, built in 1876, about 900 sq. ft., no dishwasher, no air conditioning (and summers are hot here), radiators with a boiler that had been converted from coal, painted floors, 8 layers of wallpaper with paint between the layers, zero setback from the street, and I had to provide my own own washer, dryer and refrigerator. Oh, and the interest rate was 13% on a fixed rate, 30-year mortgage, with 2 percentage points paid at settlement. And of course all work time was in the office and the commute at off peak times was about 30 minutes drive time. I drove a 15 year old car, traveled very minimally and very inexpensively. This is what I could afford and this is how I lived until I could afford more. I am not suggesting that things are easy today, but I think that many today do not see the compromises and struggles that let the boomer generation get to where we are today. We definitely had some advantages, but it was not easy. Parental leave? No. Sexism? Hoo boy! On the other hand, it was easy to find quality work wear /s.

      1. Yes. We have a 300K HH, 800 sq ft house built in the 1800s, it’s COLD, and an hour away from work. We can’t afford to buy closer and were tired of renting. But we also aren’t frugal people and aren’t going to live super cheaply (we like wine, reliable cars, good cuts of meat, and exploring) to afford a bigger down payment somewhere else. But our jobs are here until we retire, so we can’t move.

      2. Yes. I live in a vhcol housing market that is one of the hottest in the nation. People bemoan that it’s unaffordable for regular people. It is not, unless nothing is good enough for you but a single family home in one of the nicer neighborhoods. Condos are still very affordable, especially the older buildings and complexes. People who insist on glass walled high rise buildings with a doorman and concierge will still find housing here unaffordable, but those who are willing to look further find some really good bang for the buck.

         1. A couple each earning six figures should be able to afford a single-family home that isn’t falling apart. People who worked in factories used to be able to buy single-family homes on one income.

            1. Right, I think that’s the issue – we all know there are trade offs in life but it shouldn’t be absolutely impossible for a young couple earning the median income to purchase a small SFH in an average city. That’s become normalized but it’s fundamentally wrong in a healthy society.

            2. I don’t think that is necessarily true in dense urban areas. Not everyone has a detached house. That is the 1950s post war suburban dream, but actual cities have never looked like that.

   5. I think the other big point here is that the “property ladder” is broken.

      I am late 30s and stuck in my starter home because seniors are just not moving out of the “big houses.” (Don’t blame them as individuals, the whole property market is broken.)

      nationally the avg home buyer age is 56 and almost 40% of homes are purchased all cash.

      Inventory is still at historically low levels and there’s a huge contingent of all cash buyers. We have good jobs but we can’t compete with that.

      I’d love to move into a bigger house but it’s just not possible currently.

      My sister who is mid 40s and just that much older than me was able to make the traditional “property ladder” work and now lives in a great house.

      1. I think part of seniors not downsizing is that as mentioned above, many of their kids have settled elsewhere so they want/need to have space to host the whole family overnight.

         That and anything built for and marketed to seniors downsizing who aren’t ready for a retirement community is luxury and expensive – it doesn’t make financial sense for my parents to downsize in the future (especially since they still live in their starter home so it’s manageable AND it’s a ranch so they don’t have to do stairs – they bought this house in their 30s with the plan to age in place).

      2. We are staying in our place; it’s single level, and has enough room that when we have to have home help and need individual spaces, it will still work.

      3. Such a great comment. I started off my adult life with a great rung on the property ladder – I bought a lovely starter home in a southwest city for $180k. Then I got divorced at 30, and sold the house as part of that. Now I’m 44 and….still renting! I can’t seem to figure out how to get back on the ladder. My original starter home is $600k according to Zillow, and I currently live in a region where a 3 bedroom 1000 sq ft home is 1 Million. My friends from my 20’s have sold their starter homes and upgraded, and now live in beautiful large homes with kitchens that I have cried over. My life now is better in so many ways as a result of my divorce, but, by setting me “back” about 5-7 years compared to my peers, I totally missed out on affordable housing. So my husband, 2 kids, and I live in a 1000sq ft rental while my friends live in appropriately sized family homes with things like closets!

      4. I lost out on my dream home to buyers in their 60s who paid all cash for a $775 fixer upper. I’m friendly with the sellers’ agent so I got the inside scoop over a few glasses of wine. I think she felt bad. She said they’d been waiting on a house in that neighborhood for a long time and had socked away cash for years. It’s going to be their retirement project. Houses never come on the public market in that neighborhood, which is in the best school district in the state. It honestly makes me sick that retirees are playing passion project with a house that could benefit small kids so, so much more. There are beautiful historic farm houses in the middle of nowhere you could fix up too! Why do you need to take the ONLY house to come on the market in 4 years in the best school district??

         1. Sorry that was supposed to be $775k not $775!

         2. Oh, dear Lord. Listen to yourself.

            1. Yeah, the entitlement here is wild. Neighborhoods with great school districts also often tend to have great other amenities that appeal to seniors. Buying a fixer upper in the middle of nowhere… not as much.

         3. This is a contentious issue in my Midwest college town which is generally very affordable, but we have one school district (with all the faculty kids) that is seen as prestigious and homes here are very expensive for the area and frequently go for all cash over asking the same day they’re listed. I’ve heard several people b1tching about old people “taking” these homes from young families, and even suggesting that empty nesters should move out of their homes as soon as their youngest child leaves for college so there will be more housing stock for families with K-12 kids. It’s pretty wild to me to think people aren’t “allowed” to live here if they don’t have school age kids.

      5. OP and in my mid-late 30s in a rental with asbestos in the popcorn ceiling so…yeah.

      6. I think the idea that there should be a “property ladder” is a symptom of a larger broken system.

         We are in our small 3 BR/1 bath starter home and have been here almost 20 years. It’s fine. Most of it is dated finishes and builder-grade quality, but we keep it maintained and properly functional. We are frequently contacted by realtors wanting to “help” us put our house on the market, but we aren’t in the market to move. Some of those realtors get really pushy, telling us we have been here too long and shouldn’t be so selfish to stay put for so many years (WTAF?).

         1. Wow. That is wild. Personally, I plan to stay in this house for as long as I can. I don’t feel even a little bit bad about that.

            1. Yeah I’m sure realtors make more money when people move constantly, but so what!

   6. Coming from the Bay Area I absolutely understand high costs. That said, it simply never occurred to me or anyone I knew that we would own anything until a later stage in life. We had roommates in rented apartments and bought condos years into dual income marriages after we climbed the ladder at work and starting making real money. It’s still expensive, I’ll never live in a single family home, but it’s a tradeoff to live here. I would personally never sacrifice the ability to easily change jobs for a small single family home in a LCOL area that has limited options. It’s all trade offs and what you expect. Many of my friends still rent apartments and probably will never own.

   7. Often houses exist, but investors just hold onto them while they sit empty.

      With strong bipartisan support for both investors and corporate landlords, I assume we’re pretty much supposed to be renting.

      1. I think this is the problem. Most people don’t really see it, but corporate landlords and REITs are buying up a huge amount of the inventory, leaving individuals to fight over what’s left.

         1. A related problem is rich parents giving their children wads of cash to buy homes.

   8. I missed the discussion yesterday, but I’m a millennial and am many years into home ownership. I bought in the Boston area in 2011, sold in 2016 and bought something bigger which we have over time renovated.
      My first house cost ~$380k. DH and I made a combined ~$175k at the time and we put 3% down and paid PMI.

      I’m only pointing this out as an example of a millennial that was able to actually purchase a home in a hcol region of the country.

      1. That was more than a decade ago.

      2. The housing market in 2011 was wildly different than it is now.

         1. Not really. It has been increasing steadily for the past several decades. I moved out of Cambridge in 2004. During the 8 years I lived there my rent on my one-bedroom apartment doubled, while living in University owned housing (so somewhat “rent controlled”). It’s just been steadily rising at a crazy clip.

      3. The difference between a young millennial and an old one is huge.

         Im also a millennial but I was in high school when you bought your first house.

         1. Same, graduated highschool 2011 and am a millennial.

         2. Elder millenials lucked out in many ways – home prices are one. I graduated in 2002, bought a studio in 2004, upgraded to a 1-bed in 2006, and then got married and bought a house in 2011. All interest rates were under 7% and we were able to hit just about bottom basement prices for our single family house AND refi during the pandemic. My brother is 4 years younger and got hit with the 2008 downturn not long after graduation and much higher housing prices when he was finally able to buy his 1 bed in 2012.

            1. +1. Elder millennial here, and I absolutely lucked out with home prices and interest rates.

      4. I’m your age but sorry you sound like a boomer with this take. Would you be able to buy that house at that price today? No of course not. And no one is getting 3% rn either. That house would probably cost you more than triple if you bought it today and people certainly arent making triple the HHI you were back then.

         I bought my first townhouse for $305k in 2023 at 3.625%. Townhouses in that neighborhood are going for over $500k now at 7%. I’ve held onto it and Ive been renting it for a few years at $2200/mo – have never raised the rent – which is much much less than the buyers would pay per month if I sold it. Maybe I’m contributing to the housing crisis by not selling, but my tenants wouldn’t be able to afford to live there if they had to buy.

      5. People who were able to buy between 2009 and 2012 won at life.

         1. Yep if I could have bought in 2011 I would have won the life lottery but I was only 17

         2. Harsh but true. In 2011 we saw multiple homes in our price range in our suburb and were able to negotiate the sellers down on our top choice. Post-pandemic (and during covid) houses in our area were going in days with bidding wars among families fleeing the city making all cash offers.

      6. Being an older millennial allowed us to get on the property ladder. We sold a house that I bought in 2014, which allowed us to buy a bigger house to accommodate a growing family. Someone who didn’t have the opportunity to buy 10 years ago (in a much more friendly market) would have a much more difficult time getting on the property ladder now.

         We spent 2+ years looking for a suitable home, btw, and we lost out in bidding wars many times.

         1. An addendum to this is that you need to have kept moving up the property ladder. We stayed in the starter house we bought in 2003. It did not appreciate at the same lightning speed as homes in other areas or as new construction in our area. If we’d traded up in 2013 or so we would have done very well for ourselves. Now we are stuck in a falling-apart home and are going to have to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars that we will never get back to make it habitable, or spend a ridiculous amount of money to buy a crummy new build with no yard in a neighborhood that’s been clear-cut.

            1. What’s insane to me: it used to not matter nearly this much when you bought your first home or moved up. Sure, the housing market fluctuated, but it wasn’t this total roller coaster.

               I don’t think people in the ’80s or ’90s were like, damn, my life would have been radically different had I been ready to buy two years earlier.

   9. There is no winning for the vast vast majority of youths. I’m a young millenial (early 30s) and a home owner but I’m also a childfree forever. My husband and I both earned 100k+ by 25, we barely managed to scrape into the housing market, we are the absolute tippy top exception, a complete rarity. There is no moving to the middle of nowhere because big jobs don’t exist there and we need an airport for work travel. Living in a city isn’t elitism as some people seem to imply but rather necessity if you desire to work in certain fields.

      1. Yes and no. I’m an academic so I’m way too sympathetic to lack of geographic flexibility and understand that any given job in a specific field can be tied to a specific location. But it’s absolutely wrong to say there aren’t big jobs in cheaper cities like Chicago, Minneapolis, Charlotte, Atlanta, Houston, etc. Those cities have also gotten a lot more expensive but they’re still a lot more affordable than NYC or anything in CA.

         1. My industry for example is in precisely one city per country. I could live where I live now or move to Oslo, Canberra, etc. My partner is in a similar industry.

            1. That’s pretty rare.

            2. Not to be flippant, but did you consider that when going in to this industry?

            3. Yeah, doing something good for the society and the planet was most important to me. Money and logistics wasn’t my motivator. I do make a good salary though. I could technically work in smaller cities but I would not be doing important work.

            4. Sorry, what?? You can do important work in MANY communities, not just Oslo or whatever one major US city you’re in.

            5. Not in my industry I can’t do important things in other cities. The folks in smaller cities just operationalize the decisions of the main industry hub. So if I moved I would basically become a subordinate of my replacement.

            6. OMG doing important work. It’s like that speech people made when you graduated, about how you were special and were going to change the world. That was not a promise to you. Or a demand. Everyone hears that. It’s like saying “have a nice day” — it’s a social pleasantry that you should dismiss and get on with your life literally anywhere else in the world, not just in 3 places.

            7. Don’t listen to the haters. Not everyone gets to change the world for the better and they can be pretty bitter about that fact.

            8. I work in a hard field that does life changing work even though it makes my life harder than it should (too much travel, meh pay, etc) but I love the work, I love the mission, and I love the impact I get to have. Keep on keeping on!!!

            9. uh someone has to do the important work!

            10. Lol, I’m sure the folks just operationalizing your decisions would love to be described as unimportant pawns. What disrespect to your colleagues. That’s crappy leadership.

            11. Why can’t you remote work for the Oslo people? Or the Canberra people? Or the people you work for now?

                EMTs save lives all over the world. Pretty sure that there isn’t a lock on who does impactful work where.

         2. Yea I live in the middle of PA and have a big job and there are more than one of us here.

            I make a $hit ton of money for this area – LCOL, base salary $220k, usually a $60k annual bonus, and I have three years of retention bonuses @$50k each coming up.

            People turn their noses up ay living here but I have an amazing life.

   10. I think there is a weird dichotomy going on where housing is both too expensive and people’s standards way too high. I’ve been absurdly lucky with my housing. I bought a home in 2012 in a walkable suburban downtown and sold it for a profit in 2021, trading up for a home in a prestigious school district that we renovated. But the criticism of both these homes? People I grew up with made it really clear they’d never live in either. The first one was small with no master suite and no tub. My friends and family were horrified that the neighbors could see into our dining room from their house. My new house is huge by my own standards but it’s on a hill. If you park in the driveway you have to walk up half a flight of steps to the front door. People complain when they’re invited over. People with two story homes who I know for a fact navigate a full flight of stairs several times a day act like these steps are the end of the world. Someone insisted I stop hosting or install an elevator. One aunt decided someone was following her in my extremely safe neighborhood because we don’t have private police.

       These are not rich people and I don’t know where the entitlement comes from. Something really shifted in the culture in about the early aughts. No one i knew drove a luxury car growing up and now most people do but everyone still works regular jobs. All this is to say nothing of the people who insist that homes must not be “used” and that all ceilings must be ten feet tall, which is something I read about here.

       1. I totally agree with this. And the thing that changed is social media and tv shows that focus on making your house look perfect.

          1. I think that’s part of it. But I think about how my mom and all her friends were obsessed with Martha Stewart and better homes and gardens in the 90s. The big swooping curtains must have cost a fortune and they all had them.

             I have another theory. What changed, I think, is that growing up a lot of us knew that our parents owned homes nicer than the ones they’d grown up in. We thought that of course we’d grow up to do the same. But most of us didn’t. And it’s somehow shameful so everyone is sort of pretending. They drive fancier cars and carry thousand dollar hand bags and pretend like everyone else’s normal house is not good enough, even while their own homes are either imperfect or gorgeous and huge and several states away from their entire family. I’m not a one percenter but my husband earns good money and I’m by no means living more luxuriously than my mom and dad in the 80s and 90s. Yet everyone I know, even cops and teachers who do very well here but are not rich, acts rich.

       2. It sounds like you need new friends.

          I have a small house in a modest neighborhood and invite people over all the time. Many of whom have much nicer houses than mine. No one has ever said an unkind word. All of them had houses much worse than the current one at some point.

          I feel like sometimes people are making these points based on terrible outliers or stereotypes. I have a “big job” and hang out with people in those fields as well as people in many others. None of these people I surround myself with fit these complaints. Elder millennial, btw.

       3. The reason that only giant fancy homes are being built isn’t that people are demanding them, it’s that there isn’t enough construction going on to meet total demand so builders can focus on the most profitable upper segment of the market.

          1. This right here. It’s math. Some might call it greed, but I don’t. It’s a business and developers deserve to make money, too.

             Also, the same people who preach about lack of affordability in my hometown outside of Boston are the first in line to loudly protest a new townhome development because “ThE dRaiN oN tHe ScHoOlS!!!!” speculating that buyers or renters will all be families with apparently 27 children of school age……. while enrollment has been going down for the last 8 years in our town. It’s infuriating. NIMBY-ism is a big reason it’s so hard to build.

             1. Also in Massachusetts, and the local school district opposed the Chinese-immersion charter school’s expansion because “our enrollment is declining so much we’re in danger of losing teachers!” Enrollment has declined because the median cost of a SFH is 10x the median family income in town.

             2. Right? Like in areas where people have a 4BR house for 1.5 kids, the Duggars will move in to a townhome.

             3. In the SF Bay Area, we DESPERATELY need more kids in our towns to avoid having to close school sites. Enrollment in expensive coastal areas in California is plummeting because people are moving further inland to be able to afford houses. I work in BigLaw in SF and have associates who live in Sacramento and commute in because they want to take advantage of more housing affordability.

          2. This.

             It’s the zoning code. Those post war homes are no longer legal to be built in my community because they’ve changed the zoning – increased required lot sizes and set backs. Re-mapped areas to prohibit multi-family and mixed use houses.

             Look at Austin – when they liberalized the zoning code and built a lot more residences, prices went down.

             There’s a lot wrong with Texas but they actually let people build houses to meet demand. That’s how things stay (relatively) affordable.

       4. You can see this phenomenon happening with ‘luxury’ goods. All these designer bags/wallets/etc. have gotten more and more expensive as middle class people have decided they too need to buy them and because everything has also been consolidated and companies need to constantly show higher profits, the quality of everything has also significantly declined.

          I still remember when you could buy a fancy LV keychain in the special cherry print as a splurge but gate keeping being what it is, the prices need to go up to keep the aspirational buyers aspirational.

          And it’s not just home and garden shows. Look at the sets of sitcoms we used to watch Like Roseanne and now where every home is absurdly perfect. Of course, suddenly everyone “deserves” a new car and new furniture, and kids can’t share rooms and a house isn’t a house unless you have a playroom and a home office, etc., and honestly who can blame people for thinking it’s all normal?

          1. Right? We were watching “Shrinking” this week (LOVE IT HIGHLY RECOMMEND) and we figured the (perfectly decorated, huge, with pool and outdoor fireplace) Pasadena house the widowed therapist lives in has got to be worth a minimum of $3 million. (Looked up the actual house and the Zestimate is $2.7 million but the back yard on the show is way fancier than IRL.) And we’re all “how the heck does he afford that?” Spoiler alert: He can’t.

             1. He’s a therapist. Doesn’t he charge like $300 an hour? He can totally afford it. And he was married so they had two incomes. And he bought the house at least a decade ago.

             2. +1 – those characters seem absurdly wealthy with no explanation for how they are affording that lifestyle.

       5. Your friends and family sound like jerks! Even if they’re thinking those things, I can’t believe they have the audacity to criticize your home to your face. I agree completely that people’s standards have gotten unreasonably high.

          1. Different anon, but a lot of times people frame it in terms of their own comfort (they don’t feel safe in a neighborhood, they feel that if any part of a house shows its age it must also be dirty or unhygienic, they feel cramped and uncomfortable if rooms aren’t spacious with high ceilings or if hall ways and passes aren’t wide enough for “two lane” human traffic, they’re anxious about bathroom access if there’s only one bathroom).

             I share some of these complaints (I like high ceilings and wide halls too! I also want a second bathroom in case someone is using the first one!). Others I can’t relate to (I don’t actually feel safer in the culdesacs with the home security signs on the windows; I think that even worn real materials are preferable to picture perfect synthetics).

       6. Agree! The standards have changed at lightening speed.

          Like going and getting your nails done used to be for special occasions, otherwise you did it yourself or had bare nails. Now not only do many women go weekly or monthly, but they also are up charging for gel, dip, designs, etc.

          I love nails, mine are always done, and I prefer the look of gel to just polish on normal nails but I can’t fathom the cost of having them done regularly! I go a handful of times a year as a treat and thats it!

          1. I’m only 30 and grew up middle class, which I think has an impact on my outlook. I really like my 25 year old coworker, but she does not understand needs vs wants. Those of us in our 30s and 40s in the office say she’s so spoiled, and we’re not wrong.

             We’re both looking to buy and what we want or expect in a house (her) or condo (me) are wildly different. She says she won’t buy anything that’s not new construction, wants high end finishes, etc.

             She also doesn’t understand why I drive a 20 year old Honda, go to Planet Fitness, do most of my own beauty (everything except hair cuts and my once a year balayge), shop at Walmart, pack my lunch for work. I’m like girlfriend, I’m trying to buy a condo this is what I have to do to buy! And, even if I wasn’t trying to buy – this is just being sensible with money! We work in government, we are not rich!

             1. I agree that your co-worker is spoiled, but also … when our parents were 30, they were trading their starter homes for larger homes and buying new cars for the family, all on one salary.

             2. Except that’s not true, I’m the Anon 11:10.

                My parents were 30 and 33 when they bought their only house when I was a baby (30 years ago) – a 3/2 SFH that had original (1940s) bathrooms and a kitchen from the 1970s. They built out an apartment in my grandparents’ basement and lived there rent free for 4 years to save for their house. They were still driving my mom’s first car she bought used in college as one of their cars. They both worked full time and are both still working full time in their 60s.

                They’ve never been a one salary family, they never traded up their “started home”, and they drive old Toyotas.

                My dad works for UPS and my mom is a teacher.

             3. When my father was 28, he bought his first house, a 2,500 sq ft split level on an acre of property in a town with great schools.

                That house now costs almost a million dollars and is well out of the price range of 20-somethings, even those who make a good living.

             4. My parents bought their first house at age 25, a very modest 1500sf home. It is now valued at over $1M. Twelve years later they upgraded to a nice middle-class 2500sf house. Its current value is 1.3M. They were a single-income family. They were able to afford real solid wood adult furniture for the second house. They bought a new station wagon when I was in elementary school.

                I am 48 and there’s no way I could afford either of those houses today, even though my husband and I both work. We still don’t have furniture in our dining room. We buy new Toyotas but drive them 200K+ miles.

   11. What I really do not get is how my boomer MIL thinks that the world is so unfair for her children, but that everyone else just needs to work harder and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

       1. I refer to that as “expanding the circle of selfishness” that some selfish people experience when they have children.

          1. Wow, this is a lightbulb for me. My wealthy grandmother thinks everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and that financial success means you’re a good persona……… and supports her three children, none of whom work. Votes republican and hates excessive government spending but trusts are structured to preserve her children’s access to government benefits. I couldn’t reconcile it. Well, one does door dash and odd jobs. The other two haven’t worked since the 90s. These are highly educated people.

             1. Ugh… families like this make me sick.

   12. THANK YOU. If a small “starter house” costs nearly a million dollars at a 7% interest rate, it is not a starter house. It is a forever house, because most people will not be able to buy a nicer $1.5 million dollar house to upgrade, etc etc. So it is such a crime to want the house where we will have to spend potentially the rest of our lives to not need hundreds of thousands of dollars of renovations?

       1. Right? Also, a house that needs that much work means a lot of money still needs to be spent! Yes, I can wait a few years (or a decade) to do it, but it’s still hundreds of thousands that will need to be put into the house.

          In my area, the house that are cheaper because they “need work” aren’t just out of date or ugly. They are uninhabitable until renovated. The ones I can afford are tear downs. There’s also a 0.1 acre triangular vacant lot for $400,000.

   13. If you don’t live in the Bay Area, can you say roughly where you are?

       1. I’m in the Bay Area. I grew up here and the best jobs for our lines of work are here. I live very far from where I specifically grew up because of costs. What freaks me out is that my husband and I are objectively better off than most due to decent (if not wildly paid) jobs and a small inheritance – if even we are stuck in our crappy 1960s popcorn ceiling rental in the “bad part of town” (it’s not that bad), how much stress are those in much worse positions feeling right now?

          1. Yeah, the best job for what I do is in NYC. But it’s not the best life for me, so I’m at an 80% great job in a MCOL city where I have a 15 minute commute. Unbalanced is not where I’m at. I’m fine getting a bronze medal.

             1. I have lived in the Bay area, and middle income workers are either
                – 3+ hr commute
                – Living in a van/RV (sometimes combined with the above; I knew folks who eg. commuted “home” several hours for weekends only & van life weeknights)
                – Inherited property in the area (or living with wealthy relatives, etc)

                Low wage workers are definitely living in cars; or there are still a few downtown $50/night dorm hostels. You can rotate between them to get around stay limits, and folks are often able to stitch together a few months, save up money at SF wages, then go back to Nevada for a few months, rinse & repeat

                There’s a little subsidized housing (and in SF, you qualify for affordability programs with something like family-of-3 HHI < 110k), but you have to be lucky to get a spot

          2. If FAANG-type workers are living in the bad part of town, who is living there along side you. A non-Big4 accountant? A lawyer paying down significant law school debt? I doubt even teachers and sanitation workers live there — maybe they drive in from Oregon or Nevada?

       2. IMO California signed its death warrant by not annually reassessing every single piece of property at its full FMV regardless of how long you lived there or if you inherited it or whatever (OK, have relief programs for the very very poor etc.) while also refusing to build anything anywhere ever. Those two are fatal.

          In the NYC suburbs, it’s expensive. Many people leave when they stop working because property taxes are high (but at least honest) and winters are hard. They move to Myrtle Beach, The Villages, etc. And that’s OK. Other people have houses to buy and outdated housing can be redeveloped. It’s the nature of progress.

          California is out of control and IDK if southern California will remake itself much better as it rebuilds. It at least has a chance for a hard reset to something much better. Bay Area, not so much.

          1. I agree that the property tax issue in California is crazy.

             My elderly relatives live in a gorgeous estate in Portola Valley. They are worth a fortune. They pay less in property taxes than my middle class parents did on their modest 3 bedroom house (~1400 sq feet) on a tiny lot in a Chicago suburb.

   14. This is the reason it would benefit everyone if the federal government did support WFH. It would be much better for a lot of smaller cities if DC workers were able to move elsewhere. Not everyone wants to live in DC. The federal government is a large employer (along with all of their contractors) and it would benefit tax bases in lots of places where people don’t want to live. Brain drain is real and has been for decades. Let the highly educated federal workforce move elsewhere and build up those communities. It already happens to an extent with DOD employees and contractors near military facilities. It could happen in other cities as well. Yes, many smaller cities are cheaper but they don’t have the number of professional jobs to support thousands of white collar workers in multiple professions. And housing is not cheaper in much of those places either if you’re making less than 80k a year.

       1. Yes! We live in a very expensive house close to DC and have opted to not move further out based on expected RTO. I would happily move to a small town if I only had to come in intermittently, but the traffic in DC is just too terrible to consider it. My commute is already an hour each way (from a location inside the beltway) and I don’t want anything longer.

   15. To Anon at 1:15 pm- Buying in the 80s was brutal, at least in some areas. My sister bought south of Boston in the early-mid 80s, when interest rates were around 15 to 18%, and housing prices had nearly doubled over the past few years. Then prices fell precipitously after Oct. 1987, so people were very upside-down with usury-level mortgage rates.

       1. Yeah, those were crazy times. People on this site of course don’t know what it was like to live during that time either.

   16. The problem is not about people in their 30s vs those in their 60s. The problem is foreign and corporate investments in our neighorhoods. This is what the country wanted and this is what the country is getting. Kamala Harris has a track record of helping families buy homes.

       1. LOL to your last sentence.

2. Our public school used to do mandatory high ability screening for 1st and 3rd grades, then this year they switched it to screening all K and 2nd graders instead. I have a first grader so she’s missed the testing both years. Because of this they’re giving the current first graders the option to do it, but it’s not mandatory. I’m kind of leaning towards not doing it but wanted a gut check that I’m not crazy.  Based on her standardized test scores on other testing, she would likely qualify for high ability but barely. Our school is overall very high-achieving with many kids working far above grade level and both our K and 1st grade teachers have done an incredible job with in-class differentiation and have many different groups for reading and math. My kid doesn’t seem bored at all and loves school. She is learning a ton, but is also not the type of kid who’s hyper-focused on the academic aspects of school and she would tell you that her favorite parts of the day are art and recess.

   1. I would do it this year, expecting that she might not qualify this year but qualify next year. In my daughter’s elementary school year, there were a bunch of kids who didn’t qualify when tested in first grade and then did qualify when retested in second or third grade. (My daughter was one of two out of a class of 150 who qualified in K.) It was helpful to these kids to have gotten a preview of the format of the test.

      Even if there is good differentiation for all students in the classroom, being formally identified as gifted usually opens the door for other programs and opportunities. Our district is part of a consortium that offers fun and free summer science camps to kids identified as gifted. It seems to be easiest for kids to be identified in mid-elementary school. It also usually takes at least a semester or even a full academic year for the identification process from referral to results, so if your kid isn’t already identified when these program announcements come out then they’re out of luck for that year. Having your kid identified will also be helpful if you move districts. You’ll probably have to have her retested in the new district, but some districts will allow kids who come in identified as gifted participate in gifted programming while they wait for testing.

      1. So the only gifted programming available through the district is a separate high ability classroom, and I’m not sure we’d opt into it. Her reading is probably average at best for our district and I imagine would be well below average in the gifted class, so that really gives us pause. I really don’t want her to develop a dislike of reading because she feels like she’s bad at it. I’ve also heard that the environment in the high ability classes is a bit competitive and maybe even kind of toxic. Our district is already a bit of a pressure cooker (especially at the high school level) and I don’t know that we want to add academic pressure to an already academically intense environment, especially at this young age. I’m also just not sure I buy into the whole idea of a high ability classroom. I think there’s a lot of value in mixing with non-gifted kids, especially in early elementary school. Not doing the high ability classroom in elementary school doesn’t impact her ability to accelerate in math or take honors/AP classes in middle and high school.

         Outside of the school, I don’t know of any doors that would be opened by a high ability placement. There are “gifted” camps and classes for elementary age children through the local university but they’re very lax with the qualifications so basically anyone who self-identifies as gifted can do it. She did one last summer (on a teacher recommendation) and isn’t in a hurry to go back, but if she wouldn’t do she could, even without an official high ability designation.

         1. Last sentence should read “if she wanted to do it, she could”

         2. There is no cost to having her identified and there’s a potential future benefit, even if you don’t know what that is now. Why not just do it and decline the classroom placement for now?

            Regarding the gifted class–if she is actually gifted and not just “bright,” she NEEDS to be with her true peers even if she isn’t the “best” in the class.

            1. I think she is just bright. The cutoff for high ability placement is 97th percentile on standardized tests so that’s catching a lot of bright but not truly gifted kids. She’s definitely a smart kid but we have no reason to think her IQ is off the charts or she’s not well-served by a regular classroom.

            2. If they are putting all the bright kids in the gifted class, that’s an argument for letting her go too, if only to avoid the behavior issues in the regular class. In our school the kids in the regular class are allowed to throw chairs. Not permitted in the gifted class.

      2. Agree. I was in a gifted program as a kid in the ’70s in an urban school. Family moved to a rural area. I was “tested” for 3 years before the rural school confirmed I qualified for their program. Parents later found out that my scores were used in the grant applications to start their program …
         Sometimes it helps your local school to have data showing that a higher percentage of their population will need a certain thing when it comes to seeking funding for it. So if taking the test this year isn’t harmful to your child (she doesn’t experience test anxiety and no pressure is applied over it), the information gained may help your family and the school.

   2. I 100% thought I was posting this on the moms page -sorry! But if anyone wants to respond here, feel free.

      1. I hate that the mom’s board exists, I love reading questions like this but wouldn’t think to go over there, I don’t even know where it is. Even though I don’t have kids, I like knowing what people are concerned about.

         1. It’s really not that hard to find. And the questions are not always like this.

            1. Yeah, there is a link at the top of the page. I am active on the moms board, and I am SO happy it exists. People on this main board would get annoyed by many of the moms board discussions.

         2. I love the mom board is separate. I have no interest in anything kid related so less to skip over. No worries OP I don’t hate it either.

   3. Not a parent of the year comment but…
      I would her her do it, esp if her friends are going to. The school may be good about differentiation now, but if most kids in her reading group/etc. get pulled out then it may be harder for her to get the challenge she is getting now in the “regular” classroom.
      I have two middle school kids who have both participated in all the gifted/high ability options in our district since they were offered, and both have always really enjoyed that time and found that a lot of their friends are in the same programs with them (plus they make new friends). I do make sure that they’re not stuck in a “gifted bubble” and also interact with other kids.

      1. This times one million.

      2. Agreed a million times over. I was a bright kid who wasn’t initially focused on academics, but my parents had me evaluated and ultimately opted to have me participate in the gifted program at my elementary school (at that point in time it was a partial new classroom, partial mainstream). My friends were all doing it, I made new friends in it, and being part of the program set me up to have better access to “advanced” classes in middle school and then AP classes in high school.

3. I’m wearing a deep green sweater dress today – it’s jewel toned, maybe with a little blue tinge – and a brown sweater cardigan that has a touch of gray in it. The colors don’t look good together. Can someone explain why? Is this a matter of cool/warm? I am very cozy and warm though!

   1. Yes, it sounds like the colors have different undertones. For a emerald green you would want a warmer brown topper (with a slight orange/burnt umber tone to it).

      1. So after reading this, I held up the green dress against a cognac leather jacket (which I own thanks to SA), and you’re right, thats a better combo!!

   2. I struggle with this, too. Apparently I am drawn to cozy sweaters in the ambiguous jackrabbit brown/gray/putty/oatmeal range. They look great on the model but clash horribly with my outfits. I’ve learned those are just colors I need to stay away from because they doesn’t play nicely with my closet.

      My closet is mostly navy, true mid-gray, caramel, olive, sky blue, and cream.

   3. Sounds like the brown is too warm-ruddy. For emerald green I like dark navy, black, maybe a black and white tweed, etc.

   4. There are a lot of factors involved in coordinating colors, so it’s hard to know without pictures. Beyond the warm vs cool thing, I find it hard to combine clear colors like the green with muddy colors like the brown, at least in large quantities. The colors might work well in a pattern together, like a jacket with the brown dominating and a subtle pattern in the green. But in large blocks, they don’t want to hang together. I lean on pattern and texture when I want to combine colors in an outfit.

      1. Agree that it’s so hard without seeing the green and brown. But if the green is a saturated jewel tone, the brown would need not only to have cool tones but would work best if it were also saturated and crisp. So, a very cool saturated brown with lots of black in it, versus a mid-tone brown that might lean softer or heathered.

         1. All these comments are helpful. Is there a source I can go to with rules/examples?

            1. You can already tell that these colors dont go well together, so I think you are doing great! Just go with your gut when you get dressed, and change if they dont look good together!

            2. This blogger is pretty good at linking color theory with real-life clothes. She leans heavily into getting your colors done, but if you start with this post and follow the links at the bottom of the post, it’s good info: https://insideoutstyleblog.com/2014/10/understanding-basic-colour-terminology.html

            3. I learned more from Maria Killam’s “understanding undertones (for paint)” system than from any fashion or makeup blogger writing about colors. Bonus: you can apply to outfits the way she talks about how to put together a room color palette based on a print or piece of art.

   5. Link to the sweater dress?

      1. No longer available where I purchased but it’s a Vince Camuto dress in the color “wise.”

4. looking for some fun to have body products for the shower.

   I am a few times a year bath and body shopper for body washes and hand soaps and I like to have 1-2 scent options for each season that I switch out. So I love a smell. Especially berry, non lavender/herbal florals, amber, and olive.

   Any independent shops to look for or amazing smelling product lines? Or products that are just fun?

   1. Necessaire has great hair and body products, great scents, better ingredients than bath and body works.

   2. Lush products are nice. If you’re willing to spend more money L’Occitane and Aesop are a treat.

   3. I was gifted a set from an independent shop in NJ called Seazen that was really nice

   4. I love the scents of Corpus products. I use their deodorant, but they have body products as well.

   5. Kneipp and Molton Brown are my go tos.

      1. Molton Brown is having a sale right now, too. I love their orange bergamot.

   6. Inexpensive option – Billie body wash in the green tea scent. Very fresh.

   7. I like the AHA Botanical Body Soap from Mario Badescu. My skin feels great and it has a delightful scent. https://www.mariobadescu.com/products/aha-botanical-body-soap

   8. My favorite is the Super Healthy Skin body wash from Beauty pie. It smells like zesty oranges and is moisturizing. And it’s quite affordable, especially if you’re a member, which I am.

   9. Kiehl’s grapefruit bath gel and moisturizer. I’m sad that they discontinued coriander version.

   10. EO / Everybody have great smelling products that aren’t too pricey.

5. Has anyone else dealt with a problem like this? For the past several years, I’ve been going to bed and falling asleep fine, for about 2-3 hours. Then, I wake up, and (probably at least 4-5 nights a week), I either can’t get back to sleep, or I doze and wake and doze and wake constantly for the rest of the night. I’ve spoken to several doctors with no real help (including a sleep specialist, who could offer me nothing but a cpap, even though I was negative for apnea). I feel comfortable and tired, and I don’t think I feel anxious (though I’ve noticed it seems worse on, say, Sunday nights or nights before I have to do something, so maybe I’m sort of anxious? I don’t really think I’m an anxious person.) It seems worse in the 2 weeks before my period, and a little bit better after that (I’ve had my tubes tied, so no hormonal BC and no worries about pregnancy). I’m 45, and this has been an issue since my mid-30s.

   Things I’ve tried that either haven’t helped or help for a little while but then stop: Drinking water (wake up thirsty, but water doesn’t seem to help), getting a fancy new bed and pillows, yoga, melatonin, relaxing podcasts, reading or doing puzzles when I wake, a humidifier, all manner of temperature adjustments, meditation, white noise, getting a lot of exercise during the day, avoiding alcohol, avoiding caffeine.

   I feel like this is really starting to impact my memory, mood, and concentration, and I’m starting to worry about long-term effects, but I’m at a loss for any other ideas.

   1. I don’t know about causes but regular accupuncture helps me sleep thru the night. My insurance covers my visits, yours may too, it’s worth a try.

      1. I’ll look into that, thanks!

   2. I started having this issue in perimenopause (42) and adding magnesium plus going on hormonal BC mostly fixed the issue. I will still use melatonin the week before my period but I’m down to 1-2 sleepless nights vs. 5+.

      1. Oh, I forgot to mention that I have tried magnesium and iron supplements, too. I’d hate to go back on the pill, but have been wondering if it was worth bringing up at my next gyn visit.

         1. I really, really did not want to back on the pill but my Obgyn encouraged me to try it for ~3months (I see a doc at a women’s practice with a focus on peri/menopause). I was flabbergasted at how much of a difference it made in my quality of life and how quickly. My mood improved within a week, I started sleeping better after the first month, and my weight has settled down to my normal baseline.

   3. Have you ever tried taking Zyrtec before bed? (Some people wake up from so-called “histamine dumps.”)

      Do you know what your blood sugar is doing overnight? (Waking up thirsty is a bit of a red flag for blood sugar issues, including those not caught by A1C testing.) Sometimes an intervention as simple as eating a low carbohydrate dinner or a carbohydrate-free fat & protein snack before bed can help stabilize glucose overnight if this is the issue.

      Progesterone is supposed to help with sleep in a way that progestins usually do not, so I’d look at legitimate HRT for perimenopause before I’d consider trying the pill.

      1. Interesting. Thanks! I’ll give Zyrtec a shot. Is there any simple way to learn what my blood sugar is doing? (I’ve never had any issues, though I’m sure ‘rettes who are close to my age will sympathize with my Babysitter’s Club-induced concern that any level of thirst is a sure sign of diabetes.) I know there are diabetic monitors, but I assume I can’t just easily get my hands on one without a diagnosis. But I’ll work on evening carbs.
         I’ll talk to my gyn about HRT, too. Last I was checked, they said I was still a ways away from perimenopause, but who knows.

         1. I think FDA recently approved a OTC blood glucose monitor, but I’m not sure it’s actually in stores yet. I’m also not sure if it’s designed to catch hypoglycemia as opposed to hyperglycemia? But realistically, I feel that diet tweaks are the first thing they’d recommend if a blood glucose issue were confirmed anyway, so to me it makes sense to experiment a little to see if it even seems relevant.

         2. I should say that for me the less simple way to check for blood sugar issues that aren’t captured by A1C was by doing a glucose tolerance test, but I think if someone had bad insulin resistance I think it would show up in some way other than sleep (skin tags, weight distribution, PCOS, getting hangry, something! It certainly did for me anyway).

   4. Last year I started working with a nutritionist because my yearly bloodwork continued to show a trend toward prediabetes. My nutritionist’s recommendation were really helpful and after about 6 weeks I found I’m sleeping through the night most of the time.
      My job is very stressful and most days are very long, so I’d gotten into a habit of eating a good breakfast, snacking through the day (maybe) while drinking a lot of coffee, and eating dinner at 8pm (and sometimes it was a big dinner if we went out and I was very hungry from skipping eating all day). Her recommendation for me is fueling my body right away in the am with a full meal (protein, good fruit and/or veg carb), then eat every 5 hours throughout the day keeping fueled with lean proteins and good carbs fruit and veg but no food after 9pm. And get outside every day for a break to walk. In my situation (prediabetes numbers creeping up, high stress, and an erratic eating schedule), my nightime wakefullness could have been either due to a too late and too heavy meal or to being hungry from not having consumed enough calories the day before. Either way, improving my eating has improved my sleep. Obviously a very personal observation, but perhaps it’s something that might resonate for you.

   5. You mention the bed and pillows, but how’s the rest of your bedding? Pillows don’t last that long, do yours need replacing? I also find the duvet and sheets and what I wear to bed make a huge difference in how I sleep.

   6. Do you look at your phone before bed?

   7. This was my sign I was starting perimenopause and needed HRT. My gynecologist was useless so I found a menopause specialist who gave me HRT. Progesterone helps a lot with sleep. Blood tests aren’t recommended for perimenopause, they’re supposed to treat your symptoms. The reason doctors still do this is because they don’t get formal training in menopause so they are all pretty ignorant of recommended treatments. Just the fact that you said it changes during your cycle indicates it’s hormonal. A certified menopause specialist will help.

      1. +1

         My first symptom too.

         Ask your doc for hormone replacement. It’s amazing how much better I feel.

   8. Magnesium Glycinate before bed. Weird dreams, but lots of sleep.

      1. +1 I’d recommend trying another form of magnesium. I’ve found it to be the most beneficial supplement when it comes to sleep!

   9. Okay, I know it’s very woo woo but mouth-taping. I had a similar thing where I’d go to sleep relatively easily then wake to use the bathroom and then be in a light doze or going into and out of deep sleep repeatedly. I kid you not, mouth taping made a HUGE difference. It’s not a cure-all but I was waking up with a dry mouth that led to needing to use the bathroom more often, headache, gasping for breath and so on. I do not believe I have apnea, since mouth taping has resolved about 80% of the symptoms.

      1. Be very careful taking mouth tape off as I ripped off part of my upper lip. Also,
         dont use if you might vomit such as from drinking, flu, etc… Waking with a dry mouth, gasping for air and waking with a headache are all signs of apnea, see a sleep specialist right away. Untreated apnea can result in heart attack or stroke.

   10. Yes. An Ambien prescription is the only thing that has restored my quality of life. I only take it in the week before my period, or on the day following a really bad night’s sleep the rest of the month if needed to get me back on track.

   11. This might be silly, but when babies and toddlers have this problem, often the cause is that they’re going to bed too late — parents wait until the kids are tired but by then it’s past what their natural bedtime should be.

       So beyond all the very good advice here, maybe try to move your bedtime back?

   12. This is just age. Take a melatonin at 2 am or some magnesium before bed. There is a reason grandpa napped on the sofa. The sleep cycle gets disturbed with age.

6. Hi Kat, there is no post on the moms page.

   1. There is now.

7. What are some ways to soften technical or substantive questions at work? I’m pretty senior, and try to be efficient and polite in my communication. I’m receiving feedback that I’m asking too many pointed questions and I should “soften” my approach. (It turns out that over 80% of the time the questions lead to positive improvements- that matters because I am responsible for maximizing the market value of the assets I question, but evidently I ruffle feathers). Any thoughts are welcome.

   1. “What are your thoughts on XYZ?”

      1. +1 and another phrasing to add to your collection: “would welcome your thoughts on this/XYZ”

   2. It’s probably not what you’re asking but how. Are you doing this in a group setting? I always go to the responsible person directly and go from there for technical, complex issues. Context also helps, I’m asking because I’m concerned about XYZ.

      1. +1. People are more likely to help you and feel good about it if they feel respected. Praise in public criticize in private. Also when you have a concern explain what it is so that it doesn’t look like you’re just demanding things.

         1. +1 to this – I am not a manager but a senior technical expert, but I’ve noticed it makes a HUGE difference when I go to junior folks 1:1 (even if it means waiting until after a meeting) when I need to raise a technical error. I might be correct; but no one wants their errors pointed out in a meeting their boss is in.

   3. So, your post has some of that in it – like “evidently I ruffle feathers” seems like you’re rolling your eyes at everyone, and “Any thoughts are welcome” is kind of a cold ending. By way of example, here’s a rewrite that I think comes off as friendlier.

      “I’ve received feedback that my communication style comes off as too direct or pointed. A major part of my role, which is pretty senior, is maximizing market value, and that means I need to ask technical and substantive questions to improve results. While my questions get the desired outcome (objective improvements), I would appreciate suggestions for how to pose them in a way that reads as less confrontational.”

      1. +1

         Intentionally making your tone and phrasing collaborative will go a long way here.

   4. I’m also a senior technical person but I think I have a pretty soft (maybe too soft) approach. I do have to be more mindful of it because I also work with a lot of non-technical people who don’t know what they don’t know.

      “Could you explain XYZ”.
      “What’s the goal we’re working towards and how is this leading us there?”
      “We typically don’t do XYZ. What specific info do you need?”

      A lot of it is in tone and in asking a lot of generaly questions. I try to think of it as we genuinely are working together to solve this, and clearly there is a miscommunication. A lot of “we” even when the situation is clearly a “them” problem.

      1. Us instead of you is very useful!
         I also use “I’d like to get more context on…” when I’m just drilling down to something where I suspect an issue.

   5. If it’s written communication, take whatever you write and pop it into Chat GPT and ask it to soften it in a professional way. It is very good at editing.

      If it is in verbal meetings/calls, add some filler at the beginning of questions. Not a lot of filler, just a little when you’re leading into a question acknowledging the other person. “Perhaps you’ve thought of this, but [insert pointed question]?

      Also, the feedback that you’re receiving could mean that you may be trying to be too efficient in your communication. I had a manager that was so efficient in written communication it was abrupt; she truly did not realize that she came off angry – she just had no filler and thought she was answering the question. It took me a few years to realize that that was just her communication style in writing.

      Since you try to be efficient, adding filler is probably going to fill agonizing and stupid. But you can flip this – it’s just another step in maximizing the market value. If you have buy in from a whole team that feels good about the direction they are headed, the results are inevitably better.

      Chat GPT may be able to give you some good re-wording if you type in the questions.

      1. +1 to this advice. I have to remind myself to add filler all the time. My last workplace prioritized direct, to-the-point communication but my current workplace is much softer. Sometimes I find it annoying but overall I think it contributes to a warmer environment, which I have come to love.

         My general practice is to start with something positive, ask my questions with a little bit of why/reasoning thrown in, and then close. Something like, “Hi Sue, thanks so much for putting together these product updates. We’re making great progress and are on track to hit the next client deadline. With that in mind, as one of client’s goals is to maximize X, could we tweak the product to do Y and Z? I think that could achieve ABC result. I would love to get your feedback on that.”

      2. Or just do it yourself instead of ruining the environment for a pretty low stake effort? Just an idea as the world burns!

   6. Can you give us any examples of the pointed questions you’re asking?
      And, are you asking these in conversation or in writing?

   7. Ah, so you’re getting critiqued for being a woman who doesn’t ask questions that go “teehee, it’s probably just me missing something here, stop me if I’m wrong, but did you do X yet? Totally cool if you didn’t and if you did and already told me and I forgot, no worries!! I’m just a space case LOL!”

      1. Not everything is a gender issue. Sharp elbows are a problem at many workplaces no matter what you are.

         1. Yeah, but this one feels like a gender issue- women being asked to soften when speaking from expertise raises red flags.

      2. Nobody is saying that.

      3. That was my first reaction, too, but I work with a man who communicates like this, and it is definitely noticed and not in a positive way. Obviously I don’t know exactly what OP is saying, but taking an adversarial tone with your coworkers tends to make what should be a productive conversation into a needlessly stressful experience for the person on the other side.

         1. It was my reaction, too. This is why I asked who gave her this feedback. It could be really good feedback or also really dumb feedback.

   8. One thing I try to do when I have to ask a lot of questions is explain why I’m asking them first. I think people can feel defensive if you are asking like 5-10 direct questions in a row without clarifying your end goal. I’m a lawyer so this often looks like “This is helpful context. I want to better understand [this risk][how this law may apply] from a legal perspective – here’s some info that would help me do that.” And then launch into the questions.

      1. +1 This helps so much.

   9. This is kind of vague. What is a “softened” question. Did the feedback come with a specific way they would like you to phrase your questions? Or is this a make people like you more, people think you’re being a meanie, you need to smile more, type of thing?

      Can you give a few examples of how you phrase your questions? In what context are you asking these questions?

   10. Who is giving you this feedback? A manager or direct reports who have to respond to the line of questioning?

   11. People tend to view written communication with a negative bias, I.e. assuming the sender is angry or being confrontational or condescending when the intent of the message was neutral. So you will need to soften your tone when communicating by email or chat. Just something to keep in mind.

   12. Do you actually have the technical expertise to be asking these questions? I have some senior staff who don’t realize they just aren’t SMEs and their ‘technical’ questions are very cringe and aggressive.

       1. Thank you for all of the feedback. A more senior VP gave me this feedback when I asked him a question and it was an angle that he hadn’t considered at all. I do have the technical expertise and 20 years of industry experience, and in the instances that I don’t, I try to make it clear that I don’t have as much context.

          In this case, the question was literally phased as, “Some thoughts and questions [from a 3rd party] in the email below …did you consider XYZ referenced below?” I sent this to the person directly but written in email. The direct feedback was “soften your question, and this response is in keeping of a broader sense in this company that you ask too many questions and don’t just accept the house view.”

          All of the responses here are so valuable, thank you.

          1. I think the phrasing, “did you consider” is the problem. It makes it seem like they DIDN’T consider it, missed something obvious, and/or you’re accusing them of missing something.

             Suggested alternatives:

             Have we addressed the concern about XYZ elsewhere? If so, please share [the link/the response].

             Seems like [client] has more questions about [topic]. Can you provide [documentation] on how we’re addressing this?

             I’ve used [tactic] in the past, would it make sense to include it in [this project]?

             A couple things I’d like to suggest: [tactic], [documentation], and [example] to help us [do/address/mitigate]

             In all cases, you’re not suggesting that they haven’t thought of something or don’t know something. In some cases, they might’ve had a reason for not including whatever you suggest, it might be part of a later phase of the project but the meeting is only talking about phase 1, and/or they summarized all the actions but not the reasoning behind each one.

             1. +1

                Also, the way you phrased the question makes it sound like the more senior VP reports to you. It’s grating.

          2. This is helpful context! “Did you consider” sounds like you are accusing them of not considering the issues or working thoroughly.

             I would try, “Some thoughts and questions in the email below. Do we need to look into these issues or have they already been addressed? I want to avoid replicating work if another team/person already considered these issues.”

          3. I agree that “did you consider xyz” can be perceived as a criticism. If I’m responding to this, I might feel defensive and wonder if I need explain whether I considered it and if not, why not, and if I did, why I didn’t take a certain approach/reach a certain conclusion.

             Also, “referenced below” strikes me as overly formal and cold. I have direct report who peppers her emails with “referenced herein” and “therein” and “referenced in the attached,” etc. when communicating to non-lawyers and it is off putting.

             I would rephrase your example as “[third party] shared their thoughts on [blah blah] and a few questions (see below). I’m interested in your thoughts on XYZ. Happy to schedule a call to discuss.”

             This is org dependent, but my clients/stakeholders greatly prefer verbal communication over written. I use emails to get things started, but if it’s at all complex, invite them to talk. It’s also a more approachable way to close out an email than just ending it.

             Sounds like you’re also getting substantive feedback that you’re continuing to question approaches/views that your company has already taken a stance on and isn’t interested in changing. I’m not saying there’s never a time and place for questioning the how’s and why’s, but there’s a time, place, and manner. Consider whether your approach is helping your company/coworkers meet their goals, or whether you are asking questions that are distracting and/or requiring people to defend/justify current approaches.

             1. +1

                I think of this sort of stuff as falling under “soft skills.” That might be where the “soften your question” comes from.

          4. 9/10 times when someone asks me a ‘have you considered’ question the answer is yes and if you thoroughly read the report you would know that.

             1. Yes this phrase always makes me defensive bc it sounds like you think I am an idiot. (Yes I have a little chip on my shoulder, yes I am working on it)

   13. Are you putting people on the spot in a group setting? I’m not saying this is you, but there’s a certain kind of tech person who thinks they’re the smartest, most clever person ever and asks gotcha questions. Sometimes they are even the wrong questions because they don’t go over all the material beforehand. Make sure you don’t come off that way. If you’re trying to improve a product, it might help to do it in a structured way. Outline the goals you’d like it to achieve and work with the team collaboratively to identify the gaps. I do some work that is basically criticizing products but we all work together as a team to identify the issues together. I’m not calling the individual engineers or devs out saying they stuck at their job. Again, not saying you’re doing that, but you want to be sensitive to how some people take criticism. Working hard on something and then feeling like you’re being attacked is not pleasant. If the dev team didn’t do a thing, but it wasn’t a well-defined requirement and they were never given the training to even be able to identify that this should be a thing on their own, then I need to give them grace.

   14. It sounds like you’re speaking from your knowledge base, are senior and are polite in your communications. (My sexism radar is going off) Have you tried not being a female SME?

       Joking aside, I’d highly suggest drilling into this criticism, asking for examples and for the opportunity to apologize and get more insight.

       Is this criticism coming from one person or multiple? Whose feathers are ruffled? Does it usually revolve around 1:1s or around team meetings? Is it the sort of thing where you’re not being consulted early enough on projects that center around your expertise, so you have to change project directions later? Is everyone aware that you are the SME on this discipline or does it seem like you’re speaking out of turn?

   15. Sitting here wondering whether any man has ever been instructed to be “softer” at work.

       1. I can’t imagine.

   16. Would recommend dialing up your non-verbal warmth cues to help your colleagues trust that you’re coming from a good place! There’s a video from diary of a ceo with Vanessa van Edwards that discusses cues and communication!

   17. I am very similar both in temperament and in role. (I am also in an extremely male dominated industry).

       Four things have really helped me:

       1) Lean more into chitchat –
       both casually around the office and at the start of meetings. Ask about people, remember what they tell you and share a bit about yourself. It really helps to create a more collegial environment and set the meeting off on a more collaborative tone. I am not a small talk person but this has helped me more than anything else.

       2) Be less direct in your speech.
       I know it’s painful and stereotypical but just be more circumspect in your feedback and ask more leading questions to get people to the point.

       3) Let people try their ideas first.
       If it’s not too disruptive in terms of time/cost, let people try their ideas first and then fail and you can help guide them to the correct idea as they then try to problem solve. It really helps people get invested in solving the problem and seeing you as someone who helps them solve a problem.

       4) Share the praise for wins.
       When your team has a great win, publicly recognize the people that were part of the project. Make sure they understand how their job doing X helped the org accomplish Y. Make sure the outside folks that you interact with understand how individual members of your team contributed to the overall goal.

8. I’m trying to find a youtube channel with dumbbell strength training videos that has no background music. Does anybody have any recommendations?

   I’m just want some calm and informative excercise videos focused on form and strength gaining by increasing dumbbell weight (no subscription services). My problem is that I don’t enjoy background music of any kind, or overly peppy or shouty instructions. I really just want something calm and quiet. Have any of you have got any quiet recommendations?

   1. I hate workout videos, so wonder if my method would help you.

      I just skim a video to see the exercise and the reps (I hover along the bar showing where in the video I am to see the little screenshots of each section). I write it down and then just do the workout on my own.

      I think some folks write oit the workout in the caption of their videos. I also occasionally pay for programs that give me written workouts. I wish they were more common though!

      I’m liking Lift with Cee right now. I am probably half her age, but I’m enjoying the workouts abc have seen results

   2. Fitness Blender!

      They have hundreds of free videos and none have background music.

      1. +1. They have a membership program but also a ton of free videos, including all of their older ones (which I generally prefer).

   3. Fitness Blender — also try some of the apps. Many of them have mini videos or gifs inside the app to show you properly how to perform the movement, and you have a space to track your weights and history. I’ve liked Fitbod and Sweat.

9. Given how many folks were scandalized by the question about highschoolers going to parties I’d be interested in polling the group. How old were you when you first gardened, had your first drink, and smoked a cigarette or MJ for the first time? Were you popular?

   I was decidedly uncool yet I had these firsts at 15/14/15.

   1. Not popular but not unpopular in HS. Raised to be very, very afraid of gardening and that getting pregnant would be the end of the world.
      Gardened: 20
      Drank: 19
      Cig/MJ: 17

   2. First time truly hooking up (third base): 14, which was too young. 19 for “all the way.”

      First drink: 18

      First cigarette: never

      First MJ: 19?

      1. Oh, and I was popular in a small school/town, but we were all close knit. I didn’t get much attention from guys since they were like my brothers/I’m only of average looks.

   3. Gardened at 20 with first serious BF, alcohol at 18 (as soon as I started college) and never to cigs and MJ.
      I’m a nerd who was unpopular in high school but had plenty of friends in college.

   4. I had a boyfriend from freshman year of highschool to freshman year of college, and weirdly I think this kept me out of trouble. I had someone to hang out with, I was busy with other stuff.

      My parents told me if I wanted to drink or smoke pot, I could do so at home, which seemed so uncool, so I’m not sure I had a proper drink until I studied abroad at 19. They were fine with my boyfriend hanging out and when we were older, staying over, etc.

      I had some pretty wild friends (and it was the heyday of party drugs) but never felt a ton of pressure.

   5. To add, I was definitely manic pixie dream girl and much prettier than I realized. Bullying is a funny thing that way.

      1. MPDG is not a positive thing! The MPDG is a female character whose sole function is to facilitate the male main character’s development. She has no real life or character development of her own. One should not aspire to be a MPDG. If you function as an MPDG in real life then men are using you.

         1. Wow thanks for your insight on my then undiagnosed neurodivergence, you’re so wise. I wasn’t being used but I was fully myself and not as constrained by social norms.

            1. You invoked manic pixie dreamgirl like it was a reason why you should have been popular.

            2. You were misusing the term, then.

            3. This phrase has an established meaning. If that meaning is different than your intent, please know that your audience takes a very different connotation away from the conversation when you use it to describe yourself.

   6. Gardened – college senior
      Drink – 18 (though in HS I was allowed wine at holiday meals, weddings etc)
      Cig – never
      MJ – never

      1. Oh and I wasn’t and will never be the popular life of the party type. I tend to have a small circle. So my HS girlfriends and I would go out to a movie and ice cream on a Friday – or hang at someone’s house being goofy – but not partying.

         1. Basically identical responses for me. I had a decent circle of friends in high school but we were all pretty academically-focused and we spent Friday nights doing things like going out for ice cream, to Blockbuster to rent a movie or just hanging out at someone’s home being silly. I7 really wasn’t that different than 7 in that way and I feel really grateful that my childhood lasted so long. None of my high school friends drank in HS, except small portions with family members. A few had s3x with long term boyfriends (at 16-17, not before that) but most of us didn’t have boyfriends and none of us had casual s3x.

      2. Pretty much same.

   7. 24 and very close to marriage. 21. Never.

      I was not conventionally popular but I had plenty of good friends and tons of fun and never put myself in any sketchy situations leading to trauma or regret. And yes, I dated plenty of guys in college. I believe that waiting until marriage is the safest and most practical choice for both men and women. No emotional trauma from mismatched expectations, no risk of disease, risk of unplanned pregnancy is borne by both partners and not just the woman.

      Before anyone accuses me of being a prude, I am not an evangelical Christian or a Mormon or a Catholic and have progressive stances on most social issues. I just knew what I wanted and stuck to it.

      1. Same here. No regrets. Granted, I was not particularly drawn to risky behavior. But, I also hope that my kids know that being more straight-edge is an option since experimenting is so normalized. I still had plenty of friends and had fun, I promise.

         1. same. had plenty of fun and no regrets . I was raised in an evangelical Christian environment but my parents were pretty relaxed about things and didn’t have a lot of rules or expectations; I just felt I could save myself a lot of unnecessary risk/stress by not doing anything illegal and only sleeping with someone who had made a public legal commitment to me, so that’s what I did.

      2. But you are religious though, yes?

         1. Nope. Atheist.

         2. Not the poster, but she captured my outlook completely. And no, not religious.

         3. Not that poster, but I also waited until I met my now-husband, which happened at 23 and am also not religious. It’s not unheard of, even for atheists!

      3. Yes, I think it’s confusing when people make things about morality or religion that are more about wise choices for desired outcomes. Ironically a lot of religious communities incentivize the exact same choices they morally judge (for example, wherever pregnancy is a strategic way for a teen to achieve independence from overbearing parents as well as community support for choosing life).

   8. I grew up in European family where kids could try wine so first drink is maybe a little bit of a misnomer because I was probably too young to share here? But probably 13 when I had a full glass of wine or sangria vs. just some sips of champagne. First cigar*tt*e at 13. Didn’t really do it “regularly” until 16 and never really got addicted but smoked socially when I went out into young adulthood.

      14-ish for a toke of MJ. Didn’t do anything for me and I didn’t try it again until 16.
      Same for my first “hook up” – got to 2nd base at 14 and then nothing significant until my first gardening at 16.

      17 before I tried coffee, lol.

      1. I don’t think sips count. I said 18 for drinking which is when I had my first real drinking with friends experience. but I had sips of wine at Passover as young as like 8? And my parents let me sip alcohol in my teens when we were in Europe or other places where it was legal.

   9. I don’t think anyone was scandalized by that question. Most responses were “yeah, totally let them party! you can’t stop them!”

   10. 16/16/21

   11. Like Pizza Rat, I wasn’t popular but not unpopular in high school. Had friends, but none of us were really the partying sort.

       First drink: around 18, a few months before I turned 19
       First gardening: 19
       First cigarette: never
       First MJ: never

       For context, I am 57.

   12. Gardened: 17
       Drank: 17
       Cigs/MJ: never

       I would say I was popular amongst the “nerdy” kids at school. Most of my friends were from the same clubs (robotics, quiz bowl, model UN) and AP/honors classes. I almost always had a boyfriend. We would have frequent “parties” (ie a group hanging out in someone’s basement or backyard) but there was almost never alcohol.

   13. Gardened: 18 but had boyfriends and did everything but around 15
       Drink: 12
       Cigarettes/MJ: never, wasn’t a thing
       Was considered very cool and popular. Went to parties all the time. Would absolutely want my kids to do the same. Where I learned critical soft skills.

   14. 18, 14, 18, never (was convinced in my youth that I was going to be a CIA officer)

       Was decently popular–was an athlete and honors student.

   15. 22, 15, 24. Not “popular” but I had lots of friends and went to parties in high school, including some where I drank. Didn’t have a serious boyfriend until college and didn’t smoke at all because I was an asthmatic athlete, but tried MJ once. So I’m a prime example of how the occasional high school drink doesn’t result in nonstop sex and drugs.

   16. I wasn’t popular but non unpopular in high school. I’m 34.
       gardened – 17
       drink – 16
       cig – 16
       mj – 19

       Also, as it relates to the discussion yesterday, I had super strict parents and wasn’t allowed to go to parties… which meant that I just lied to them and snuck around, for whatever that’s worth.

       1. Same here, I just lied and snuck around too. It amuses me that parents think they can control their kids past a certain age.

          1. There is a difference between being unable to control your kids and actively aiding and abetting partying. Yesterday’s OP was considering the latter.

             1. This.

          2. Isn’t this a personality thing? Some kids need support in making the right choices; they want to, but might be susceptible to peer pressure. Others might be natural party animals, and be neat parents can do is to corral that and do what they can to make sure there are no permanent consequences.

   17. I didn’t do any of these things until college. My parents were very strict and kept me under lock and key. In fact, they didn’t even want me to go to college so they could continue to control me (religious family). I navigated and paid for college by myself. However, I was so sheltered and naive that I went buck wild and slept with like 40 guys my first couple years of college, so there’s that.

       1. I appreciate your honesty!

   18. 14 (but just weeks before my 15th birthday), 16, and like 21 lol. I hate smoking and have never actually been able to inhale correctly.

       I wouldn’t say I was popular, but I wasn’t unpopular. I certainly had a group of friends.

   19. 24, 14, never

       I was pretty uncool in high school, so I didn’t get into anything then. The alcohol is young because I was allowed to have a glass of wine at dinner with my family on weekends. I wasn’t interested in sleeping with anyone until I met my husband. I had a great time in college, but partying has never been my thing, so I didn’t get into much trouble.

   20. I’m old enough that I did these things in the 80s, before some of you were born. I was mid-popular.

       Gardened: 14
       Drink: no idea, my parents let me taste drinks from an early age and would pour me a tiny glass of wine at special occasion dinners by the time I was a tween or teen.
       Cigarette: 19 or 20, tried one of my college roommate’s Marlboro Lights. Hated it, never again.
       Weed: 17

   21. Classic band nerd in high school, plenty of friends, but not the “popular” kids.

       Alcoholic drink: 19? I threw up immediately, have never really liked drinking

       Gardened: 20 or 21.

       Smoked a cigarette: 18, second one at 19. that was the last one.

       MJ: 24? in Amsterdam. next one was late 30s after it was legalized in my state.

       1. Also band nerd (but desperate to be one of the cool kids). Had strict parents but just lied and snuck around.

          16, 15, 15, 15 (ish but within the 15-16 range for all).

   22. Lol
       Sex: 23
       Drink: 20
       Cig: 17?
       MJ: 20
       Not super popular but not unpopular either.

   23. Garden: 21
       Drink: mid 30s? (abstained for medical reasons earlier in life)
       Cig: never
       MJ: never

       I was reasonably popular and had a solid social life.

   24. 24/21/never

   25. I wasn’t popular, but still had lots of friends. Half of our friends were total goody two shoes and half weren’t which made the dynamic weird – ended up splitting into friends who drank or were okay with us drinking and friends who were scandalized by it. I remember being really frustrated in high school that I wanted to be going out and doing more but I didn’t really have friends who wanted to do what I wanted to do – small school (graduating class of 100) where we all felt under a microscope made it tough. My social life really flourished in college and I’ve been very social (and tbh a pretty heavy drinker) since.

       First drink: 16
       Never smoked MJ or cigs (was a serious athlete in HS and college so a) got drug tested by NCAA and b) didn’t want to wreck my lungs – I’m 29, smoking was never “cool” but I took a few drags here and there in college. Then immediately went into a job with drug testing too).
       First gardened at maybe 20? I was a very late bloomer there didn’t have much interest in gardening and frankly still don’t. I only do it when I’m in a relationship with someone and don’t miss it at all when I’m single (which is 5 years and counting right now).

   26. Gardened: 18 (freshman bf)
       Drank: 18? Had certainty tasted at home but didn’t drink on my own till college. Didn’t get invited to those parties in high school. My friends were not cool.
       MJ: 24? Grad school.
       Cig: tried a couple times in college.

       Now 48 for context.

   27. Gardening: 15 (“all-the-way”); other stuff 13
       Drinking: 13
       Cigarette: 14
       MJ/other: Never
       But I stopped drinking and smoking early in 9th grade, with just a few exceptions for socializing outside of my regular school contacts (i.e., visiting friends 1.5 hrs from home, visiting a friend in college), and I was never “drunk” before college.
       I was very popular. Everyone just knew I didn’t drink.
       I picked up drinking quickly in college and it has been somewhat of a problem at many times since, including now, decades later.
       I was exposed to a lot of drug use in 9th grade and it was extremely unappealing, and of course I have been around it since. I just don’t have any interest in that at all.

   28. I wasn’t popular, but I also just wasn’t interested earlier.

       Gardened: 19
       Drink: 18
       MJ: Probably 18 – 19

   29. I am very boring. 19 or 20 when first gardened, 21st birthday when I had my first drink, never smoked cigarettes or MJ (though if they ever legalize it federally, I’ll try an edible.) I am not scandalized by highschoolers going to parties, though, and recognize I am an outlier in this regard.

   30. Not popular but not unpopular, plenty of friends but pretty quiet.
       Drank at 16 or 17 (it was in the summer, can’t remember if it was before or after my birthday)
       Gardened at like 20? I have always had a low drive, so this was very much my choice to wait this long.
       Never smoked cigs or MJ

       Partied a lot in college, but not much in high school – somewhat strict parents (they let me go out and do things, but I was so afraid of getting caught drinking), many of my friends weren’t super interested, not cool enough to get invited to the big parties.

   31. On gardening, I would like to know whether people really, truly wanted to do it, agreed to it in order to keep or please a boy, or did it because society told them that liberated women enjoy it.

       1. I am @11:20
          I really wanted to, but I was also in positions before and after where I was pushed to do things I didn’t want to do with that person, and also frustrated in another later high school relationship with someone who wanted me to be the girl he could take home to his mother and all that meant.

       2. Was deeply in love with my high school boyfriend.

          1. Ha. I was deeply turned on by mine. He was/still is hot!

       3. I was older than average (20) but did it because I really wanted to do it. TBH I was ready earlier from a physical standpoint, but didn’t like the idea of doing it with a guy I wasn’t in a relationship with and I never had a boyfriend until my junior year of college. I think even in a committed relationship I probably wouldn’t have felt ready to do it until 16 or 17 + at least six months of dating, which was kind of the benchmark in my nerdy high school circles.

       4. I think I was curious, more than anything. I was 20, in the military, had been living on my own as a quasi-adult for a couple years, and my previous idea of waiting til marriage didn’t seem appealing anymore. I decided an upcoming visit from a good friend I’d been low-key in love with since freshman year of high school – never dated, fooled around occasionally after graduation – was as good an opportunity as any, because I wanted him to be my first.

          Then I gardened with 3 other people within the next couple weeks. One was just a proximity hookup, one was a previous boyfriend who’d moved away and I hadn’t really gotten over (we’d started talking again but he lived a couple hours away and we ultimately decided not to do long distance), and one was the guy I actually ended up dating for a year+. HS guy was on again off again for the next 5 years and we both thought we’d end up married eventually until it ended very badly. Other than that crazy month, I’ve only gardened with long term partners, lifetime total is 6 (married 15 years, so it will probably stay there).

       5. For me it was bc I fell in love (end of college) and wanted to garden. Ended up marrying the boy and happily together 22 years later.

       6. Me – 16, really wanted to, and had really wanted to for quite a while. Felt completely prepared emotionally (I felt that way after and still feel that way on retrospect 20+ years later) and I’d gotten oral contraceptives. All good.

       7. I’m one of the older ones and I didn’t do it because I was waiting for true love or at least more than a casual hookup. By 23 that hadn’t happened and decided I needed to lose it so it didn’t become a thing — went out with friends of friends, started flirting, and went home with him fully expecting to never see him again. We wound up dating for 9 months.

       8. I did it with my best friend, no regrets, we’re still close 18 years later and it’s a fond albeit cringey memory.

       9. I am the second band nerd above – did it to please a boy, 100%. Didn’t personally feel strongly about it but was also being groomed at the time by a 40 yr old, so who knows what effect that had on my desire/lack of desire.

   32. 16/18/22.

   33. Gardened: 38 (when I got married – don’t judge)
       Drink without my parents: 21
       Smoked: never

   34. Gardened “all the way”: 28
       Drink: 17
       Cigs/MJ: puffs only, early 20s; edible once late 20s
       Raised in religious household and generally avoided dating.

   35. Not popular but lived in a small town so there were people to party with.
       Hooked up – 17, gardened – 21/22 (waited until I was ready)
       Drink that wasn’t a sip – 16
       Smoked – probably same
       MJ – never

       I wasn’t crazy wild but definitely did things in hindsight I’m lucky didn’t end badly — mostly around binge drinking.

   36. 19,19,33 (no cigarette ever, tried MJ well into adulthood)

       I was not “popular” but always had a tight group of friends.

       My parents were alcoholics and my mom a chain smoker, so most of that turned me off of the party lifestyle until I was away at college.

   37. -Never partied in high school because I was an unpopular nerd.
       -Gardened – 16
       -Drank – 21
       -Cigarette – never
       -MJ – 28

       I managed to become socially adept enough to be “popular” (but not a “popular girl,” so to say) around age 22. Still had no interest in MJ until I was older, even though I had ample opportunities and lots of my friends did, even when I was a teen.

   38. never/16/never

       Extremely unpopular, uncool and hated school and my classmates.

       Early 30s. I self garden regularly but have never once felt a desire for co-gardening. 80% sure I’m ace or demi. I tried gummies at 25 and didnt get the hype. I find smoking gross. I have a drink maybe 2x a month.

       1. Do you have a responsive desire, like, very responsive and not at all spontaneous?

          Personally, I need a LOT of foreplay, as well as to be in love.

   39. 17/like 10? (I’m from Europe and this was a sip of wine at a family dinner. Actual drink like 15)/16 for cigarettes (yuck, but again, this was Europe, it was cool). Was never really into MJ. Was neither cool nor uncool, had friends and was invited to parties despite being a quiet introvert.

   40. Gardened: 15 but somewhat taken advantage of by an older party :(
       Smoked: 13 but it never became a regular thing
       MJ: in my late 20s, maybe twice in life, no interest
       Drinking: 21, I was a total square and had many cautionary tale friends as what not to do examples. Even then I didn’t get “into” drinking until my mid-late 20s.

   41. Gardened 21
       Drink 12 – Italian parents. Had wine with Sunday dinner from a young age.
       MJ or Cig – Never tried
       I was not popular or unpopular just kind of there

   42. Alcohol – parents offered me sips of beer around middle school. I tasted, didn’t think it was all that great, and don’t drink now.

       Gardening – parents never let me have a bf, so when I finally moved far far away, I immediately took up the first guy that asked to be my bf. He was a prime example of toxic masculinity, lots of red flags in hindsight, and it was a damaging relationship for me.

       Cigarettes – high school. Took a puff, thought it was gross. Never smoked anything after that.

10. Paging the person asking for black-tie wedding dresses – I added a couple links to yesterday’s post.

    I also saw this today: https://www.kiyonna.com/products/embroidered-elegance-evening-gown?variant=44967457849649 it’s maybe not super-formal, but I think it’s pretty.

    1. That’s really pretty.

    2. that’s really pretty!

11. Doesn’t it sometimes seem like it’s all too much?

    1. Yup. I’m on maternity leave and am worried I’m going to lose my job. I work for a federal contractor and it’s a real risk. Even if I don’t lose it, I’m worried about a demand for RTO and I can’t handle going back to my 2-3 hour commute with a baby in daycare. I’m immunocompromised and bracing for getting sick a lot when I have no separate sick leave. I’m sad my baby won’t grow up with many of the life benefits I took for granted. I’m sad and worried for all of those who have it objectively harder than me, including many, many undocumented immigrants in my hometown.

    2. Yup. The state of the world is alarming. I’m pretty stressed on the personal front. I’m doing my best to cope, but wow, it’s a lot. And worse of all, I don’t feel very hopeful that things will get better.

    3. It seems like too much that everyone around me is unfazed. It seems like too much when my Jewish family, community and friends defend Elon Musk’s unusual salute. Honestly, if I accidentally made an offensive salute, I would be mortified and apologize profusely, rather than spending the week making gross N@zi jokes on twitter. That’s how I know he does not love my people. But how can I object when the ADL is defending him? I’m sad and exhausted and it’s only January 24.

       Also I know many autistic people intimately, and they would also be horrified and apologetic if they made an offensive gesture. Defending him because of his autism is gross and cringe.

       1. Omg, anyone defending him because of his autism (if this lying sack of sh*t even has it) can go jump off a bridge.

       2. I won’t defend him, and I’m certain there are elements of being on the spectrum to this behavior, but he knows better and doesn’t care.

       3. You are free to criticize the ADL. That organization is not supporting you.

       4. I’m honestly worried that the ADL is watching their back which is not a good feeling either.

          1. I wouldn’t say it is watching it’s back. It is, on a national level, fully committed to the support of Israel above all else, which it interprets to mean fully committed to supporting the apparatus that will fund Israel and give political cover to Israel, which is now the current administration and the Republican party.

          2. I’m OP of 10:35 – right? I had this thought too. But literally 99% of my former Orthodox Jewish community vociferously supports Trump, Teslas are everywhere in the religious neighborhoods (though I guess everywhere) and many “friends” have come on my private facebook defending Musk. The ADL is not a religious organization per se, so I wouldn’t expect them to share this, uh, affinity for Trump and Musk. At least the great Abe Foxman came out against Musk’s salute.

             1. I’m Jewish as well, but not orthodox and it’s bc many of the orthodox are one issue voters (Israel) and are also very uncomfortable with tr@ns stuff. Personally I think much of what Trump stands for is counter to true Jewish values like kindness, caring for others, etc

             2. Orthodox Jews are a tiny, tiny percentage of Jews in America – I think like 2% or something like that. Jews on the whole strongly lean Democratic. Jewish women were the second largest Kamala voting blcok after Black women (above Black men).

             3. About 10% of American Jews are Orthodox, with 17% among young adults (from the Pew survey)

       5. I’m old enough to remember the Kanye situation.

    4. Yes but it will be ok

       Ask for help

       Call a friend

       Go for a walk

       It’ll be ok

       1. That’s an extremely naive way of thinking. You’re country is burning down and you think it will be ok??

          1. The media makes us all feel like the end of the world has come. Look around you. Is your house burning down? Do you have people who love you and food to eat? You have to balance the hysteria with your real-world experience, if you take time to notice it. I’m a worrier too and pessimist, so I get it, but… do you want to throw away your life based on issues you can’t control?

             1. I see your point, but it’s also hard when still grieving losses from the mismanaged pandemic response and everything that came with it. I am grateful that I’m still okay and am not willing to waste that good fortune on borrowing trouble and worrying, but that’s different from believing that everything will be okay.

             2. yes, some people’s homes are literally burning down

             3. You may be okay for now, but others are already being hurt. We all need to fight for our country in ways large and small if we want to save it. That doesn’t mean we don’t take breaks or cherish the good things, but we can’t retreat into a bubble of “I’ll be fine.”

          2. Personally, I need to think that in order to keep going. Imagining a better future is important for getting up in the morning. Pessimism doesn’t get me anywhere.

          3. Ouch! The “house burning down” thing hits too close to home at this point.

          4. No it’s not.

       2. I feel like I’ve been trying to walk my way out of crises since 2008. When can I just lie down?

    5. Yes. We’re past a tipping point.

    6. I’m a bit confused and concerned why all of these tech tycoons are suddenly BFFs with Trump. I don’t recall them being important in 2016 or 2020. Are they all just scared of losing $$$? To be honest as a society we’re being put in a scary position- top hospitals concerned about losing funding and research grants, basically being forced to do whatever the new admin says

       1. He has directly threatened them and their businesses. He literally suggested that Xuck should be imprisoned. He attacked Bezos and his businesses relentlessly. He has bashed electric cars. I hate it so much but also wonder if there isn’t some fiduciary duty they have to their companies to do what they are doing under the current circumstances.

          1. I have considered that argument and rejected it. If we are heading towards a point where courts cannot protect these billionaires and their companies from government targeting and political prosecution, their companies are not safe anyway and lying down only makes that inevitable.

             I think they are just rolling over because they care about money and power and not much else. That’s my generous take. My less generous take is once a nerd bullied and stuffed into a locker, always a nerd bullied and stuffed into a Lockett.

    7. Yep, I am Not Doing Great.

       1. And the meltdown on this forum continues….

    8. Yes, often as an adult, but especially in the last month.

12. What kind of emergency or evacuation plans do you have in place for your family?

    Living in SoCal, I realize that I am remiss to not have really prepared previously. No time like the present!

    I put a communications plan together last night. Agreed upon evacuation locations, who we will call, printout of important numbers, policy numbers

    Now will work on some basic supplies and virtual document backups. Ive been working from checklists on the Cal Fire site, but would like to hear what others have done – especially if you have needed to execute your plan/use your supplies!

    We are most likely to face an evacuation for wildfire, or earthquake as natural disaster.

    2 adults in the household, no kids, 2 dogs.

    1. You’re focusing a lot on evacuation right now because of the fires, but for an earthquake, you’re more likely to need to shelter in place, so also be prepared with water and food and whatever else you’d need for several days to weeks without power and water.

       1. +1

          Also there are plenty of resources out there about emergency preparedness. I would start with those rather than try to think of everything yourself.

       2. +2. You should also make plans if the power is out for an extended period of time after an earthquake.

       3. Oof! We have solar panels on our house, and had arranged to get solar batteries installed so they could help us limp along in a power outage. And they burned up in the fire literally the day before they were supposed to be installed.

    2. One thing that surprised me when I moved to the SEUS is that we either have a boil water notice for days or lose water completely whenever the power flickers off. That never happened when I lived in SoCal, but I would expect to lose water after a severe earthquake. It takes a LOT of bottled water to flush toilets, wash hands, prepare even the most basic of food, and keep pets watered.

    3. On this subject, how long can you keep bottled water? I’ve heard that the plastic will eventually leach or break down, but not really sure when that is. Our emergency water stash is kind of old at this point.

       1. Generally and assuming proper storage, etc., bottled water lasts about two years. I learned the importance of storage when I ended up having to use two 5-gallon bottles to water my roses because I let them sit on my porch in the sun and algae grew in them.

          I handle the water issue by getting water delivery and using the 5-gallon bottles for my drinking water. That means they are constantly rotating and I never have less than 20 gallons. Also, if there is an earthquake, fill your bathtub as soon as it stops shaking assuming you have supply. That way if there is a system disruption you have water for toilets. And have some hand sanitizer because you are not going to want to use your drinking water for hand washing.

    4. I like the checklists from reputable organizations close to me (so, thinking of my region’s specific risks). It’s good to have plans for evacuation, but most emergency preparedness is a lot more mundane: strap furniture, etc., harden against fire as makes sense for where you are, and make plans to keep yourself safe and comfortable without much access to the grocery store or pharmacy or utilities for awhile.

       I think it’s best to fold as much emergency preparedness into everyday life and focus more on staying safe and comfortable for the expected risks (for me, earthquake, wildfire smoke). I live in a flat city, so while I make some choices to harden my house against fire, I’m not going all out as if I lived in the hills.

       It’s a lot more practical for me to have extra pantry supplies that we’ll eventually go through than specific emergency food. I keep extra filters for my air purifiers (because I’ll eventually need them) and painter’s tape to seal up my old house. I keep my cars fairly charged and some extra clothes and glasses in the trunk (also useful if it’s chillier than expected or I get wet when going to the beach).

       When I lived in an apartment above a carport, I kept emergency supplies in a bin in my backyard, since that kind of architecture is more vulnerable to quakes.

       I keep a couple weeks of water on hand (and paper plates and. wet wipes to cut down on water needs) because if a quake causes a problem with the water system, it’ll take awhile to fix. I’m sure there will be aid in my city much sooner than that, but I’d rather leave it for folks who have less ability to prepare and I’d rather not wait in lines.

       I buy gallon jugs from the grocery store every couple of years. I try to have about half my water within printed dates and half within a few years (figure I can prioritize the within dates for drinking). I store water in a cool dark place.

    5. I like the checklists from reputable organizations close to me (so, thinking of my region’s specific risks). It’s good to have plans for evacuation, but most emergency preparedness is a lot more mundane: strap furniture, etc., harden against fire as makes sense for where you are, and make plans to keep yourself safe and comfortable without much access to the grocery store or pharmacy or utilities for awhile.

       I think it’s best to fold as much emergency preparedness into everyday life and focus more on staying safe and comfortable for the expected risks (for me, earthquake, wildfire smoke). I live in a flat city, so while I make some choices to harden my house against fire, I’m not going all out as if I lived in the hills.

       It’s a lot more practical for me to have extra pantry supplies that we’ll eventually go through than specific emergency food. I keep extra filters for my air purifiers (because I’ll eventually need them) and painter’s tape to seal up my old house. I keep my cars fairly charged and some extra clothes and glasses in the trunk (also useful if it’s chillier than expected or I get wet when going to the beach).

       When I lived in an apartment above a carport, I kept emergency supplies in a bin in my backyard, since that kind of architecture is more vulnerable to quakes.

       I keep a couple weeks of water on hand (and paper plates and. wet wipes to cut down on water needs) because if a quake causes a problem with the water system, it’ll take awhile to fix. I’m sure there will be aid in my city much sooner than that, but I’d rather leave it for folks who have less ability to prepare and I’d rather not wait in lines.

       I buy gallon jugs from the grocery store every couple of years. I try to have about half my water within printed dates and half within a few years (figure I can prioritize the within dates for drinking). I store water in a cool dark place.

    6. Hurricanes are a little different, but usually make sure there is shelf stable food in case the power goes out. Because you typically have days to prepare to evacuate, keeping plastic bins to pack with valuables. During a really active season I’ve left them packed, but they’re not in there forever. FEMA would be a good resource though for general preparedness lists.

    7. Besides directly being affected, you could also be dealing with secondary impacts.
       Ever since CA power companies like to do safety power shut offs, I have a car battery with an inverter, which I can charge from an outlet, and use to charge devices in the event of an outage.
       Also air purifier with backup filters for those smokey days.

    8. The Richmond water debacle recently has me rethinking how much drinking water I should keep in the house. I drink tap water, so I don’t usually have bulk water lying around.

       We’re in the DC area, and social unrest is honestly my biggest “disaster” concern. DH and I joke that when society breaks down, we’ll head to my dad’s place in TX because he has lots of land and guns. We also have loose plans to buy our own place WV as a vacation home/escape pod.

13. My dog needs socks or booties while the vet works out his allergies. I’ve tried several pet socks with grippy dots but they are all too tight around the opening to get on over his larger paw pads even when I size up. It’s not like he is sitting patiently for me to stretch them open and use two hands to get them on. I’m tired of buying and returning, anyone have a pair you’ve used successfully and easily?

    1. Finding dog booties has been hard this winter, at least in places experiencing bad weather. We have Mattlucks on order which get good reviews. In the meantime we are using Pawz, which have easier to find…We trim down the ‘neck’ with a scissors for fit – but they are still a pain to put on and it requires 2 hands and patience all around. In a pinch, we have used party balloons, trimmed similarly… but not good if your dog has latex allergies?! Also when all those fail or aren’t available – try baby or toddler socks? Easier to put on but of course not as durable.

14. Welp, I have been looking forward to giving a talk at the NIH for months (career milestone for me as a clinician-researcher) and now it’s cancelled. Not surprising but I’m still sad!

    1. I’m so sorry. This is all terrible.

    2. I am SO sorry. I’m very scared about the cuts and pauses in research funding and don’t understand how it helps “efficiency” to essentially toss/impede years of research. A total waste of time and $, and how about all the people who could benefit from medical research

    3. I am so sorry, that is such a crappy thing to happen.

    4. I an NIH patient with a rare disease that travels there once a year to participate in multiple clinical trials to help understand the cause and determine treatment for my diseases. My local doctors do not know how to treat my disease. I haven’t heard back yet to see if my NIH program is at risk.

15. My husband just got laid off with a couple months severance. We are mid thirties with a 4.5 yo son in a MCOL suburb. We’ve got our emergency fund healthy and setup, but I am still panicking. Any tips for folks who have been through this before?

    1. The best thing to do is not to treat this like other job markets/layoffs. Now is not the time to take any extra time off before job hunting. Assume it will take 6-8 months to find a new job if he is a mid career professional. Take any offer he gets (he can always leave it off the resume and continue job hunting like he’s unemployed while he gets a paycheck in mean time). Read r/layoffs on reddit. This is a very, very hard and tight job market right now. Everything that worked before will not necessarily work now. I say this not to scare you, but so that you can be prepared and he can make good decisions.

       1. +1

    2. Do your best to reign in that panic and keep your eye on the big picture. I have been fired, and I have been laid off, and in each case I have landed on my feet and been fine financially. My regret is that I nurtured the panic in the middle of the unknown, and it took a while to calm down again after I’d found a new job. To say it a different way, my panic was out of proportion to the situation, and continued to have negative effects even after the situation was resolved.

       I know what just happened feels like a crisis. And it’s a loss, but it doesn’t sound like there’s any immediate crisis. (“Crisis” meaning “financial collapse, no hope for the future, looming disaster.”) You’re simply now in a transition that you didn’t see coming, and some day you’ll be on the other side of it.

    3. I lost my job and it was very painful and stressful. I was the breadwinner, so the financial pressure was real. But after that experience, I actually fear layoffs less now because I know I can get through it, the stress is temporary, and it doesn’t define me. I highly recommend the book Keeping Your Head After Losing Your Job.

    4. Absolutely! My husband got laid off several years ago in January, with severance through April. We had 2 daycare age children at the time. It took a couple months, but he was able to get a new job before the end of the severance. I am sure your husband will, too. It’ll be ok, don’t panic. You’ve got this. Layoffs are normal, people understand.

    5. You’ve gotten some good advice above. I was laid off twice in less than two years and both times ended up in better places than where I was before. I highly recommend reading Never Search Alone and forming a job search group, whether through the LinkedIn group or with someone you already know who is in the same boat. I had a friend who had also just been laid off, so we became accountability partners and scheduled weekly meetings to plan our next steps and check in on progress. It helped create structure where I suddenly had none and gave me a sense of upward momentum.

       I reached out to my immediate circle right away to let them know what happened. I did this 1-on-1. I got involved in several volunteer groups that specialized in the types of work or the industry I was interested in, and that helped expand my network and gave me a sense of purpose. I also picked up more weekday volunteer shifts at places I usually only could help out at on weekends. All of this gave me a routine, as well as reminded me that there was a big world outside of me and my problems.

       As for applying to jobs, I created a routine around that, too. After the initial few weeks when I spent a lot of time updating my portfolio and getting a sense of the job market, I really felt like there were diminishing returns after spending more than 2 hours a day on searching. There are only so many jobs available. Once your materials are updated, it shouldn’t take that long to apply. Spending all day staring at LinkedIn is a recipe for depression! What helped me was always doing something active or something restorative first thing in the morning. Then I felt like I did something just for me before turning myself over to the mercy of the job market.

       The first time I was laid off, I was recruited almost right away so I didn’t really have to look. The second time, in early 2024, the market felt very different. I took three months off to not even think about it (a luxury I know not everyone has), and then it took me another 3-4 months to get a job. I applied to over 80 jobs, had preliminary interviews with probably 10, and advanced to the final round with 2. I got two offers the same week, which felt amazing! But it was a long and drawn out process.

       All this to say — you will be fine and your husband’s layoff will eventually be a blip on the radar, even though it doesn’t feel that way right now. Finding ways to reclaim a sense of purpose and control will really help during the early days of uncertainty.

    6. Hello from unemployment. (three school age kids, HCOL area, but 12 year old mortgage with a comparatively low payment, thank goodness) I am in the fortunate position of having gotten substantial severance and my husband is a fed of the sort that is not affected by the EOs so far, but it’s still unsettling.

       1. register for unemployment now. you can’t collect benefits til the severance is over, but may as well get the ball rolling. the system is stupid, but the money is not nothing.

       2. Take a look at your expenses. This ended up being a good catalyst to ditch a bunch of worthless/not worth the $ subscriptions, etc.

       3. When the dust settles a bit, do a full cash flow exercise. if you already work with a financial advisor, they are a great help. I appreciated having some real numbers of what minimum salary I needed to target to maintain my lifestyle, and also how far our cash cushion would go (kept me from panicking early).

       4. Have your husband update his resume NOW, and jot down any job performance information that will be relevant for interviewing. major projects, impacts, etc. I didn’t job search right away, and I was surprised how quickly this fell out of my head. by the time I was ready to think about it, I’d forgotten a lot of details.

       5. Similarly, get contact info for everyone. Connect with everyone on LinkedIn, and don’t be shy about telling them you’re in the market for a new job. I worked with so many vendors, contractors, etc, and really wish I’d exported my outlook contacts before I left.

       6. If he’s offered outplacement services, they can be a great resource. Mine basically had 3 tracks: I’m looking for the same type of work, I want to start my own business, or I want to change careers. Especially with severance, it can be a fantastic opportunity to regroup/pivot, and the outplacement folks can be excellent guides.

       It’s a tough situation, but it’s not all bad. I’ve especially appreciated the ability to take a step back and engage more with my kids and my community while I am in tr@n sition. Good luck!

16. Kat, the “posting to quickly” gremlin is back.

    1. Didn’t we determine that was too many people using anon@gmail.com? Maybe try a variant like annnnon@gmail.com

       1. I post without an address and get it.
          it seems to be about how I touch the Post Comment button and maybe how long the pause between typing and hitting it

       2. OP – I gave up trying to keep my username and (real) email auto-filled, so I just post with blanks in both now. Maybe it’s not using the same fake gmail, but too many of us using none at all?

17. My millenial stepson and his wife want to upgrade from their townhouse (purchased new) to a SFH and are despairing that they cannot find anything in their price range, but they will not consider looking at “used” houses.

    1. Ugh, nesting fail!

    2. My father is a developer, I will never purchase a new home, they’re garbage.

       1. Right now I live in a 30-year-old home that desperately needs pretty much a gut reno. It’s not out of vanity; the countertops and cabinets are literally falling apart, the windows have failed, etc. New homes are garbage, but so are existing ones, and if you buy a new one then you don’t have to waste money fixing it up for a while. And how do you know that the contractor on your reno is going to be any better than the contractor on a new build? There are just no good options.

       2. +1 my parents always told me not to buy new construction because of problems that don’t appear until you’ve owned the home for a while. And anecdotally, my SIL and BIL just bought a brand new home that’s been an absolute money pit even aside from the anticipated things like having to pay to have a driveway poured and installing landscaping. I didn’t want a super old house but we ended up with a 1990s house that we’ve been very happy with and have so far (in a decade+ of home ownership) put very little money into.

       3. We have a couple friend who excitedly moved into new construction a year ago and have been living in a nightmare of trying to get the builder to correct problems ever since. It has taken all the joy out of what was a joyful, optimistic purchase of a lifetime.

       4. Yeah, good grief. I did some construction defect litigation back in the day, and … cosign.

    3. That is wild to me. There are indeed big problems in the housing market, but some buyers’ expectations also are out of whack.

       1. I dunno, if you’re spending a million dollars on a house it seems reasonable to expect luxury finishes.

    4. SFH prices are absurd but I really don’t feel sorry for this couple.

       I also want to upgrade my life to brand new everything, but wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth so I live in a 1960s ranch and drive a used car.

       1. Yup

    5. So this is what’s confusing to me about these threads – I am a middle millennial (33!); varied social circles (studied engineering; some of my college friends exited their startups and are VCs now, some are senior staff at FAANGs & some of my friends are scraping by in non profit jobs, and I cannot think of anyone I know who wouldn’t consider a “used” house unacceptable. Maybe it’s regional?

       1. I thought the same thing, but just this week a colleague mentioned not wanting a “used house”. I was shocked!

          1. Hahaha, I think I first heard of this on a Real Housewives of New Jersey or something. It might be a standards of cleanliness thing–like not being able to trust what others have done before. I have a 200 year old house, so doesn’t apply to me, but I’d probably be deeply uncomfortable living with someone else’s carpet.

             1. lol after seeing how construction workers treat new construction houses, I am far happier knowing my bathrooms have been cleaned COUNTLESS times since installation!

             2. It was New Jersey! The woman who said it was Teresa Giudice, who served prison time for fraud after she made that statement.

             3. I’ve never heard that BUT I always install a brand new toilet seat when I move in to a new place. Something about used toilet seat grosses me out.

             4. This is also wild to me (Gen X). But if your concerns are cleanliness of a “used” (I can’t even fathom this concept), why wouldn’t you just clean to your standards before moving in?

       2. Re: regional. In some parts of the country, people don’t spend money on maintenance for cars or houses. So you can’t really get a well-maintained used anything – it’s basically years of deferred maintenance.

          That is hardly true everywhere.

       3. I also wonder if it’s people at the very start of looking for houses before it really sinks in how much stuff costs.

          I posted above, but I also haven’t experienced this in my circles at all. Everyone is nice about where everyone else lives. We’ve all had true “starter homes” in worse areas with problems. None of us immediately did every renovation under the sun just because the backsplash was outdated, etc.

          I suspect there are some people out there with these attitudes, but there are also some straw-people being built.

       4. I also wonder if it’s people at the very start of looking for houses before it really sinks in how much stuff costs.

          I posted above, but I also haven’t experienced this in my circles at all. Everyone is nice about where everyone else lives. We’ve all had true “starter homes” in worse areas with problems. None of us immediately did every renovation under the sun just because the backsplash was outdated, etc.

          I suspect there are some people out there with these attitudes, but there are also some straw-people being built or stereotypes being repeated as fact. I believe this poster’s experience, but I’m talking about the “everyone expects…” type posts.

       5. I think it’s regional. It’s kind of a thing in my LCOL Midwest city where new (Large, single family) homes are under $500k. It’s obviously not a thing in the Bay Area.

       6. I posted above but my SIL and BIL were adamant that they wanted a new house. They live in a small city in the Midwest and got a new house (far from the center of town) for $550k, so this was doable for them even on fairly modest salaries. Now they regret it because it has all kinds of problems. But yes, not wanting “used” is a thing in some circles!

    6. The “used” house concept is ridiculous but also, new build is the only way to get a decent interest rate for a lot of people. Builders are able to slash interest rates down to nothing by paying your points for you. That way, you can afford their inflated prices. That $1.2M new build looks a lot more attractive than an $800k house last upgraded in 1980 when the builder gives you 3% and the best you can get from your bank is over 7%.

       1. This is an explanation that I haven’t heard before. Thanks for sharing it!

    7. Honestly, this sounds performative. Like some posturing by people who have just a little bit of money suggesting their standards are excruciatingly high for cleanliness and style when really it just evidences how unsophisticated they are.

       1. It’s very new money or aspiring to new money. Can you imagine someone from an old wealthy family ever saying that?

          1. And everyone knows we want to emulate old money at all times.

             I’m not defending someone’s apparent disgust at a “used” house, but I also don’t think “old money” are people we need to hold up as the paragons of good behavior.

             1. You’re missing the point. The “used house” comment is meant to be a “fancy” statement that missing the mark in a major way. That’s all. It’s like someone saying I only date tall men, my boyfriend is 5 ft 9.

             2. I didn’t miss the point! You’re doing it in your comment, too. It presupposes “old money” is the right or only definition of fancy, which is not true. There are markers of $$$ within people who are “new money,” too, and it’s not better or worse. I don’t inherently believe that the “old money” framework for what is fancy, good, etc. is the correct framework.

             3. Century homes, especially in fancier neighborhoods are built better than newer homes. It’s not really a matter of opinion, it’s just fact that old growth lumber is better and various plastics degrade.

             4. Jumping in: the issue is status signaling. People who are secure in their status don’t need to turn their noses up at solidly-built houses. Opting for new, but shoddier, houses is the kind of short-term thinking that is more associated with new money.

          2. Ha. I live in New Orleans, and the idea of someone from an “old money” family saying that here is hilarious.

             I grew up in central Florida, at a time when tons of houses were being built in huge tract developments. It would have been perfectly normal for someone to want a new house, though I’ve never heard anyone refer to a house as “used.” My parents never bought new construction, but they just bought a house in New Orleans that’s 1960s construction, and it’s the oldest house they’ve ever bought.

    8. I don’t think this has anything to do with their age or where they live; it’s just them. Also…bless their hearts.

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