Thursday’s Workwear Report: Bell Sleeve V-Neck Top
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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sales of note for 2/7/25:
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
I feel like this look should have died in the 70s. I definitely wouldn’t wear this to work (or anywhere else).
Agreed – the bell sleeve with the 3/4 sleeve just looks awkward. And you couldn’t wear anything over it.
All it needs is a front ruffle and it could be Jerry Seinfeld’s puffy shirt!
Now that I think about it, I don’t think I’d buy anything that I couldn’t wear a sweater/blazer over.
That was exactly what I thought when I saw it!
Great minds :)
I agree!!!!
Rosa has scrub’s that look like this (in RED) from when she was a candy striper at the Hospital. She still looks good in them 15 year’s later! I wish I looked like Rosa, b/c if I did I would be MARRIED already! FOOEY!
even if I liked the look, isn’t it totally impractical? Like I don’t have want to have sleeves that will probably sweep papers off my desk.
Yes, I don’t have anything against this look per say, but I’m a slob and loose sleeves like this would wind up dipped in my breakfast or lunch on the very first wearing, or I’d slam full length ones in my car door or something. But I think it could work for some people, just not me.
I grew up in the land of hippies so I’m probably less put off by hippie-related fashion than others. I totally own tye dye. But I really hate bell sleeves. I think they look weird, dated, and totally impractical if you want to put on another layer.
You guys, I’m wearing a black J Crew dress with 3/4 bell sleeves today. Come on.
A well tailored black dress with structured not floppy sleeves could work (if, unlike me, you can avoid sweeping papers onto the floor).
This top is just so floppy.
The sleeves don’t flare out that much, so I think I’ll be okay. Thanks for the reassurance. ;)
I think black also likely looks better than white.
Floppy is a good description. Not against bell sleeves per se but this top doesn’t look good at all.
I love the bell sleeves. I really like the Loft dress above, but its not in my colors, and I already have a casual dress for this season. I’m on the lookout for a dark purple knit/casual shirt with bell sleeves. I’m sure your J. Crew dress looks great.
I have a J Crew top I bought a couple weeks ago with bell sleeves and I think it’s stylish and adorable.
I could see a more fitted version of this on Olivia Pope.
There were a couple of great work appropriate dresses at BR with bell sleeves, I could not decide whether to buy them and have the bell hemmed off or not. Then they all sold out so decision made.
Agreed!
Has anyone ever washed a Faribault wool blanket? Mine is 100% virgin wool, and the care tag says machine wash cold/tumble dry or dry clean, but I love this blanket and am nervous that I’ll ruin it. Any experiences from the Hive?
I have a similar blanket and have washed it on cold and air-dried. I have a Darwinian laundry policy (survival of the fittest) so am perhaps more risk tolerant.
Sheep get wet!
I wash on cold, delicate, and use a wool wash like Eucalan. I can’t remember whether I tumble dried or not, but likely I just air-dried because I’m a little paranoid about things like that.
I wet wash cold/air dry all my wool, with a little bit a stretching while wet to help maintain shape.
I mean, the label clearly says you can wet wash it, so I would. But then, I never dry clean wool/cashmere, even when the label says Dry Clean Only.
Why am I having such a hard time finding dark brown (not light brown. not medium brown) leather pumps? Like, bridle color leather. I feel like I can find every other color. My old Brooks Brothers pair has finally reached the point where I can no longer resuscitate them. I am sad.
What do you think of the Frye pumps, maybe the Regina ones in dark brown?
I really love my Frye pumps, and the leather color is fantastic.
Good suggestion! Will check them out. Thanks!
You guys are my heroes! The Frye Celeste comes in the perfect brown and looks like the perfect replacement for my prior pair. And it’s on deep discount! Thank you!
Ooh the Celeste ones are gorgeous! I am so glad for you!
I think browns are really hard to buy and wear – the trendy brown changes from season to season and I struggle with wearing brown bottoms and brown shoes unless one of them is camel. I don’t really want a capsule wardrobe, but I’m thinking I’ll just give up on brown when I buy clothing in the future.
I don’t wear with brown outfits. Maybe hard to explain what I wear them with. Mainly with outfits that don’t have black in them, like maybe a plaid skirt and button down and sweater. Outfits I might wear brown boots with in winter. For some reason they look good with the brown.
Why not try grey instead? I find them much more versatile than brown personally.
Like a dark grey? Good thought!
Try tortoise shell pumps. Dark brown in color but more modern and easier to find.
I already have a fabulous pair of tortoise shell pumps that I love. They go great with a lot. For some reason I have a lot of outfits that go well with dark brown leather, though. Plus I like to change it up.
Ladies, I have been assigned to the most annoying project ever. And, worse, there is this kid on the project. He’s awful. He’s 26 and he just started in May. He’s both ignorant and arrogant. He’s an analyst and the liaison between the developers and the users.
Last week he referred to me in a number of emails as the “Junior Developer.” I’m a Senior Developer on the Data Warehouse team, but I’m new to the project and am just learning the software involved in this project. I’m 20 years older than him and have been at the company for 4 years.
Yesterday in a big meeting with directors from all the budget centers and the head controller as well as some of the other developers, one of the directors asked why we developers couldn’t test as well as developers. I tried to explain that we needed the users to test and then sign off before the changes were moved into production. And then this a$$hat stated “they don’t know how to use the data warehouse. Only those of us in the budget center know how to search the data in the data warehouse.”
“Dude, I built the Data Warehouse!”
I set him straight after the meeting, but of course, the misconception is there. And the other developers aren’t on the DW team, but they know how to use the DW, too.
Then in the afternoon, he and I were assigned to work on something. I sent him an email with my ideas. After I left for the day, he sent an email listing my ideas as his own to the Project Manager. This time I’d had enough. I forwarded my email to the team and said that I’d sent it out to the !diot yesterday before I left.
Sorry. Just venting. My manager “moved on up.” I was “volunteered” to this project, but the Director of my department. It was supposed to be only until October 15th, but now it’s indefinitely. I am not amused and there doesn’t seem to be anybody I can turn to…
Document, document, document.
Set up a one on one meeting with the Director. Note that Dude has provided incorrect information on a number of occasions and that you’re proposing that all communications with the Project Manager run through you.
In something like that meeting situation, call him out in the meeting not afterwards and do what HRC does with DT – if he starts interrupting – just keep talking until he stops talking.
Oh my word. Definitely document. How big is the team and do you have any allies among developers/ users? Anyone who might feel the same way?
Stealing your ideas – any chance that you could cc manager/ director when you send him ideas? (I realise there is a balance between documenting for evidence vs not overwhelming them with emails.)
Seems clear to me that having users test and sign off obviously adds value, even on the rare occasion it’s not *necessary*, and in any case should be built into project timeline and budget.
We ALWAYS have users test and sign off. It saves having to make as many changes once it rolls out.
You’re 20 years older than him. Use it and own it.
Who cares if you’re new to the company or the project? You’re not new to the working world or this field.
Set him straight. “This is not appropriate in this field or the working world.” Do not threaten, whine, or explain. Just call him out on it, publicly when it happens and later, privately.
Take charge. Seriously.
I say this as someone who worked as an analyst/liaison in a similar position to the one you’re describing… It is a terrible job for arrogant young people who are new to an organization. This guy sounds insufferable, but your management made a real mistake putting him in any kind of information gatekeeper role. This type is unlikely to respond positively to you saying he needs to learn who’s who and what he’s talking about before he opens his mouth, but it might be worth scheduling a one on one meeting to “discuss your role and how you can best help move the project forward” where you can tell him that you know a thing or two about a thing or two. But yes, also document and set the record straight with the director.
Being young in and of itself doesn’t make somebody an a$$h@t. Some people need to be taken down a notch, but there are also plenty of us sub-30 who work hard, hustle and like to be part of a team with our peers. This is why I feel like I can’t talk about my age or anything that will give away my age in the workplace.
Your coworker is an entitled jerk, but not because he’s 26. And I’ve had plenty of coworkers who were 20+ years older and “more experienced” who couldn’t work their way out of a paper bag.
This. This guy sounds awful, but calling him a “kid” is a bit much for me. & I think is the wrong approach for you take when dealing with him. I’m recently 27, I’ve been a lawyer for 2 years, & I assure you I am not a “kid.” Don’t make it about his age, make it about his attitude and conduct.
Any tips to figuring out what to put up as wall decor? I have a large wall space above my couch in the living room and can’t figure out what would look good there. I’m decorating-challenged and have a hard time imagining what looks good in terms of decor unless something is actually there. So I guess my additional questions are: If you have wall decor in your home, were you able to picture what would look good in that space and just get that special piece? or did you try a bunch of things and keep changing until you liked something?
I get art that I like and have space for. Maybe that’s not the best way to design, but meh. You’re going to have to look at it everyday. It should be something you like looking at, not something that you only got because it “ties the room together” or whatever. As long as you stick to a color palette you’ll be fine.
My biggest challenge is size. Art looks much smaller in a big gallery with 15′ ceilings than it will in your house. I cut up cardboard boxes and tape them to the wall to figure out what size I like in the space, then I measure the cardboard.
If you’re having a hard time thinking of one big thing that will work, maybe do a gallery wall?
This is a good suggestion for some. I have always wanted a gallery wall but the thought of having to collect a BUNCH of things that will all look good together, figure out how to arrange them, then hang them all just so is enough to make me give up.
+1 I want to do a gallery wall in my office. I think I could find pieces I want that would look fine together, but I don’t think there’s any way I could hang them all straight and properly spaced. I’m a little OCD so if the spacing wasn’t perfectly uniform between all the pieces it would bother me. So I gave up and hung one huge piece in the space instead.
I like the neater gallery walls where you buy 4 (or 6, or 8) of the same frame, and then fill them with art/photos that are all in the same scheme (like watercolors, or black and white photos, etc)
I really really hate gallery walls. There are some that are borderline okay, like the style Veronica Mars mentioned above, but too many people (cough pinterest cough) just throw a bunch of mismatched stuff on the walls and it looks awful to me.
That’s pretty much what would happen if I tried to do a gallery wall.
That’s funny. I think gallery walls looks silly when it is clear they just bought a bunch of matching things to make their place look ready for Apartment Therapy (they think….).
I much prefer to see an eclectic group of prints/picture etc… that mean something to the owner. THAT is interesting. I want something that draws me over to look at them.
Remember, you are designing for you to live in the space….. and a much less important second is for guests to enjoy your space and get to know you….. and last in the pack is for the online pix.
Don’t you want to be surrounded by things you love, that are meaningful, rather than matchy matchy?
I hate matchy matchy…
I agree with this completely. Our “gallery wall” is all the pictures/photos that mean something to us and in frames that go together but don’t match. It’s stuff we love (baby pictures, landscape photography we took, candid family photos) and makes us happy.
A little bit of both. I try to stick to some sort of theme or color/metal scheme that echoes the rest of the room. That helps narrow down my choices.
I have trouble with spatial recognition, so if I find something that fits the criteria above I try to tape up paper or something of the same size and shape. That gives me a sense of scale. If it looks off I don’t normally buy it unless is is something I love the look of so much that I’m willing to put other things up around it to better fit the scale.
I think size and color are the two most important factors. As anon above said, use cardboard or tape on the wall to figure out approximately what size piece you want. After that, just make sure the color coordinates with what’s in your space. It doesn’t have to match perfectly (and in fact it would probably look weird and matchy-matchy if you got something that was the same color as your furniture) but not clashing is important.
I also think there’s nothing wrong with leaving your walls blank for a while – I’ve lived in my house for over a year and most of the walls are still blank, because I want art that’s meaningful to me and I know I’m not going to be able to buy that overnight. The few pieces I have are one that I got at a local art fair of a landscape near my house, one oil painting I bought on my honeymoon, a watercolor map of the world I got on Etsy and some photos I took on my travels blown up on canvas. I like that even though the pieces have very different colors and styles, there’s a cohesive theme of travel/natural landscapes and all the pieces have significance to me.
I use painter’s tape to block off the area that I need to fill and then try to think of ways to put the right decor there. Right now I have a massive blank wall and I’m not sure what will go there, but I think a gallery wall is a cheap, flexible option (Ribba frames from Ikea work great). The other thing is that once I find art I like, I try to suck it up and buy it in the largest size possible. Bigger is almost always better for art.
First, remember you don’t have to buy something today. Second, like you, I am decorating challenged. What helps me is creating a pinterest board and then scouring websites (that I would actually buy from, rather than just pinning things other people have pinned) and start pinning things that appeals to me. Over time, you might notice you are drawn to a certain style/color/etc. Bonus points if you have non decorating challenged friends that can also pin things to your board. I usually invite my SIL to pin things to my boards.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I am very not about this top. Flashbacks to the 1990s, when I took my fashion inspiration from the movie version of Interview with the Vampire.
Good point! I think Buffy would’ve love this top, too!
And here I was thinking it was a plus if it looked like Jennifer Connelly’s top in Labyrinth… ;)
I’m just waiting for a return of the Bowie-style codpieces for menswear.
Clearly commenters are strongly against the 3/4 bell sleeve look, but what about full length? I loved it as a goth in high school, wouldn’t mind wearing it now…
Still a hard pass for me. But in terms of trends I dislike, there are definitely worse ones.
I just bought a super cute bell sleeve top from Ann Taylor. It is navy lace sort of. I plan to wear it a ton this fall, so I’m a fan! I’ll even wear it to work. :)
I just went to find the link, and they don’t have it anymore. I was inspired by Extra Petite’s IG feed (I’m not petite) where she wore it with flare jeans tucked in. It looked super cute and tailored. I plan to wear it like that casually and for jeans Fridays and tucked in to a pencil skirt for regular work days.
I LOVE THAT TOP. I also loved that outfit!
I have a bell sleeve Lauren Conrad light sweater that I plan to wear the hell out of this fall (outside of work, but honestly, I could wear it at my office also).
That said, I do not like this top at all.
Eh, pass for me. I wore it as a tween and when they came back in the early 00’s – in both cases they annoyed me to NO END while eating.
I love the top in question! Or, at least, I would if it were a bit slimmer fitting – it needs to be close-fitting/tailored with bells that aren’t too big. It looks kind of sloppy as-is.
Same. I’m fine with any trend bringing sleeves back in any way. I’ll take this over a cold shoulder any day too.
I work in an industry with next to zero women, and just one at the partner-like level. I love my work; I really do, but it’s so hard sometimes. My closest female ally – very strong performer, like me on the fast track to ‘partnership’ (we’re not in law) – just resigned after being back from (a pitifully short) mat leave for a couple weeks. No kids yet for me, but I’m in fertility treatments now.
Someone tell me I can be the exception to the rule? Sigh.
In-House counsel where there are also no women at my level of seniority. I have found that (1) I can and do have friendly relationships with women in the office who are technically “below” me, and (2) I have cultivated an awesome group of women with whom I am on the same “level” professionally and use them as my sounding board for work matters. I grew up with 2 brothers, so maybe I am just used to it, but it rarely bothers me. That being said, if you are miserable there, is there anything prohibiting you from looking elsewhere?
I’m not miserable and I can/do have strong relationships with the guys, which is partly why I’ve made it as far as I have. It’s not that. Me and this friend were “in it together!” – she just had a kid first. I do not fault or judge her decision at all. The emotion of it is just really raw right now.
I would be careful about projecting your situation onto hers even though she is your “closest comp” in my finance speak. You never know what is going on at her house. I have a colleague in my office who is very stressed by having children, but when I look at her home situation, it is completely different than mine and she has a spouse that expects her to not only work 50 hours a week but also handle almost all the childcare tasks and emotional labor. I catch myself sometimes projecting that if / when I have kids it will be like her situation but I am in a different marriage, living my own life and it won’t necessarily be the same. I have also seen people (my mom) make decisions in the heat of the moment of having very small children to quit a job without really fully working through the long term implications of that decision and ultimately living to wish they had combined work and family more effectively.
As a counterpoint to your example, my most kick a** and take names friend just had her first baby and is very happy being back at work in a demanding job. She says it gives her purpose to achieve something at work and then go home and enjoy her kid knowing she has worked hard all day.
You can be the exception to the rule.
You can be the exception to the rule. For real.
But if you’re not, you can also learn to forgive yourself.
I am you too. There are almost no females in leadership at my very traditionally male dominated company/industry. I have always always thought that I would be the exception and worked hard towards it, but it always feels like 2 step forward, 1 step backward. I am recently back from having kid #3 and I just honestly don’t think I can be the exception anymore and I’m not even sure if I want to.
I think about this all the time- whether I’m sure I even want to be.
I am in an industry (education) that is heavily female at the lower/entry levels, but data shows a HUGE downswing in women at the top (administrative) levels. I am the only woman in the four-person leadership team at my school, and also the only person under 40. You can do this! (If you want to do this!) I agree with JuniorMinion’s advice above, and would also urge you to find friends/allies at your level regardless of gender. I have a group of high-powered female executive friends who work in other industries and we get together for lunch/wine on the regular; they help me problem solve at work even though we’re not in the same field. I also recommend coming to this s*te often for commiseration and advice.
I work in a male dominated industry, and I consider myself an exception to the rule. Including me, there are 3 women on my team (of about 70 men), and we’re all exceptions. We all have young children, but we’re all very good at our jobs, well respected in our department, and have received recognition/promotions since having children. We’ve all balanced family and work differently, with daycare, trading schedules with spouses, grandparents, nannies, etc. There’s lots of ways to do it successfully.
Before I had my daughter, I thought I might want to become a stay at home mom. By the end of my maternity leave I was itching to come back to work. I love my baby, and don’t begrudge the work that comes with caring for her, but I realized I’m just happier when I can have a job. Maybe your coworker just realized she was happier at home.
Did she quit to be a SAHM or to go somewhere else in the industry or somewhere tangentially related? If she’s leaving the company but not the field, maybe she can pave the way to open some other doors for you in the future (sorry for the mixed metaphors there). That’s what happened to me – my former boss/mentor left me behind as one of the only women in a male dominated field/company. But we kept in touch, and a year later she called me up to let me know there were openings at her new company, and I was able to follow her to a much better company.
You can definitely be the exception to the rule – but make sure you aren’t martyring yourself. I spent way too long beating myself up to try to achieve in a male dominated industry in a super misogynistic company just to prove that I *could* do it – but then I took a step back and realized that I didn’t need to prove anything or to try to get a promotion just to be able to say I’d reached a certain level – but I didn’t actually *want* that position beyond the prestige of the title.
I’m in law. I really benefited when a senior associate who was very well liked quit a few weeks back from mat leave. Partners had been so excited to throw work at her on her first day back. It allowed me to do make subtle suggestions that I would want a slower on ramp back from leave. Take your friend out to lunch and figure out what went wrong, then put it in your back pocket so that you can negotiate for better circumstances.
Also as an FYI, the first few months back from leave were the worst. Once I stopped pumping, everything got easier.
I like this!
I was in a class yesterday with a guest lecturer expert on how racial discrimination affects health. It was a great conversation and the class was very engaged, but when one of my classmates asked if similar metrics could be applied to see how sexism affects health (exposure to chronic stress, constant vigilance, etc.), the (female) professor seemed dismissive and said “yes, but it’s not as severe; women aren’t being shot on the streets because of sexism.” I found this so incredibly false and rude and couldn’t get it out of my head for the rest of the talk, but didn’t know what to say at the time (I think the woman asking the question was taken aback as well). Am I overreacting or was that an offensive denial of the fact that women are hurt and killed because of rape, domestic violence, stranger violence, and more every single day?
I don’t think you’re overreacting. I would be livid too.
It’s a really offensive denial and demonstrates her ignorance on a number of fronts:
1. Black women are also being shot by police.
2. it’s not ‘in the street’ but women are being shot daily ‘in the home’ in domestic violence situations
3. women’s health in other areas is negatively impacted by sexism (e.g. women’s heart attacks are under diagnosed because society focus on awareness of typically ‘male’ symptoms – heart disease is a leading killer of women)
But, it is fair that she wanted to limit the discussion to the issue at hand. A better response from her would have been “Sexual or gender based discrimination can affect health as well but I’d like to focus on racial discrimination’s effects today.” She made have read your comment as coming through an ‘all lives matter’ lense.
It wasn’t actually my comment, but I thought about that after class too – I could see how under a really strict interpretation, she might have wanted to limit the discussion to racism only, but the question from my classmate didn’t have an “all lives matter” vibe and I don’t think anyone else read it that way (she also asked the question after there had already been 10-12 questions focusing exclusively on the research the lecturer does). The question-asker had also linked the two subjects a bit (looking at dual impacts of racism and sexism on black women), which I thought would have been a really interesting topic to discuss, but the speaker just really didn’t engage at all after her initial offensive comment.
Big +1 to the last sentence. Professor’s remark was incredibly poorly worded. But the student’s question was also a bit tone deaf. I’m guessing there are far more women in that class than there are racial minorities. The presentation was intended to open the class’s eyes to how the other half lives, and the student tried to shift the focus to how people like her live. It’s a valid question, sure, but it does come off a little bit “me too” which kind of misses the point. It would’ve been more appropriate for the student to specifically ask about the intersection of race and sex – like, does the data reflect health effects for women of color vs. men of color?
Incidentally, someone else did ask that exact question (is there data stratified by sex for men and women of color), but the professor didn’t engage with that either! She wasn’t offensive at all, but she simply said it wasn’t her area. I wonder what’s going on with her because even though other students asked questions that didn’t directly pertain to her research, she still spent much more time engaging with them.
I imagine the classmate who asked was white? There is a perception in the ‘identity politics’ field/area that upper middle class white women and their concerns dominate the conversation, to the exclusion of other voices, so I’m sure this is what the speaker was reacting to. After all, she’s trying to bring attention to the feelings of a group that feels very marginalized and unheard, and your classmate essentially interrupted to say, “But what about people like ME?”
Your classmate was right, but it was not the time or place to bring it up, at least without FIRST acknowledging the topic at hand. And yeah, the professor could have handled it better.
+1
Perfect response.
This is really interesting to consider, and it’s valuable to know how upper middle class white women are perceived in the identity politics conversation.
I am curious about your thoughts on this, and why it interests you! :)
I worked with domestic violence victims years ago. One thing I noticed was that women of color did not internalize the victimization the way that white women do. There was a pattern I observed where the black women seemed to understand that men can be violent, and it was not their fault. There is so much shame for upper class white women who are abused. Just something to think about.
Wow. This is really interesting.
The classmate was white (so was the guest lecturer), but she had worked for years in a domestic violence shelter in a diverse area, which I think may have influenced her comment. I see where you’re all coming from, but at the time, it just really didn’t seem to be one of those diverting what-about-me scenarios (I agree those are derailing and inappropriate depending on the context), especially since she asked about the dual impacts of sexism and racism on black women. Oh well – it’s possible it was all a misunderstanding, but I just wish the professor hadn’t chosen to respond in an offensive way.
One of my biggest frustrations with the whole… identity politics ‘community’, or people who care and talk about it, is how absolutely loaded and defensive these conversations are. I don’t think the professor handled the question in the most productive manner, but her reaction does seem to be an incredibly common one in this arena. And it upsets me greatly because, as a liberal, I think it’s preventing real conversation and reconciliation between groups.
Your friend had an interesting and correct line of thought, but she was walking through a mine field to bring it up in that context, and I can’t overstate how unfortunate and ultimately destructive I think that is. BUT ALSO she should consider her relative privilege and factor it into when it’s appropriate to essentially distract from a conversation about a marginalized group she does not belong to, by mentioning an arguably-less-marginalized group she does belong to.
Oh and also, instead of framing her response as “offensive,” maybe just think of it as “reactive” and defensive. She probably, in the moment, found your classmate’s question offensive. Everyone here is feeling unheard and victimized, and that’s why conversations fall apart before they can begin.
Someone needs to direct her to the “when women refuse” tumblr if she thinks women aren’t being shot (and then some) because of their gender.
If memory serves me correctly, a lot of medical research used to focus exclusively on men (because their bodies are simpler, no monthly cycles, etc.) – including breast cancer drugs.
So it’s incredibly ignorant to say that, and it’s also foolish: empathy is a powerful tool. “You know how you hate when, as women, your medical needs are discounted? Yeah, minorities go through the same thing but for slightly different reasons.”
I interviewed for a job I REALLY want yesterday, and ended up interviewing with 9 people total over the course of the day. Thank you notes for everyone, right? And are emails okay or should I handwrite?
Yes, a note for everyone. Email vs handwritten is probably industry dependent and also depends on the culture of the company and the age of the people you interviewed with. I’m in law and in my mid-30s and I think email is perfectly fine but there are partners in my firm who are old school and expect a handwritten note.
The last time I interviewed with multiple people at multiple places, I didn’t do any thank yous after. Got offers. Is this still a thing? I’m in law too.
Thank you notes are absolutely still a thing. Fine if you didn’t write them, but to think they are not “still a thing” is a bit tone deaf for someone in law.
Right. Just because you happened to get one job without doing something doesn’t mean it’s not an expected thing to do. I would say 95% of candidates I interview send a thank you note, the vast majority by email. OP, I would go with email unless you got really stuffy vibes from the company or a recruiter or HR person told you a handwritten note was expected.
In tech, I think many people think they are weird. I don’t send them and I don’t think anyone has ever sent them to me, but YMMV. I would probably only send a handwritten note if I was interviewing with an older person at a small company.
I think most of the time the decision is made before the thank yous are received. We generally discuss right after the interview is over. But, in my opinion thank yous are required. Emails are probably just fine – this is what I expect to receive.
Yes, send thank you notes to all. And I personally think email is perfectly acceptable in 2016.
I would definitely send an email because snail mail can get lost and by the time it gets there, the hiring decision may have already been made. Good luck!
In-house law here. I was firmly on team thank you notes when I was interviewing, but I have to say, now that I’m on the other side of the process I find handwritten thank you notes a bit odd (and they always show up way after I’ve provided my feedback on the candidate). However, I think a quick email sent within 24 hours makes a good impression. Don’t rehash why you are perfect for the job. Just “thanks for meeting with me,” maybe follow up on something you discussed and then something along the lines of you think the team would be a great fit and you look forward to hearing from them.
I always do handwritten notes. Usually sent same day as interview. Most people do not and it really stands out as being thoughtful. Use personal, nice stationary.
Thank you notes are funny, because they can hurt more than they can help, but they are still the norm. I have seen promising candidates get bumped down the list for sending a thank you with typos or grammatical errors. I’ve also seen handwritten thank you notes on childish stationery downgrade an applicant. The lesson is to send a brief, professional thank you email within 24 hours, but only after spellchecking the hell out of it.
Good luck with the job!
Emailed notes all the way. For some reason, there seems to be an association between hand-written notes and weaker candidates. This is correlation not causation of course, and I don’t mean to offend anyone here who says they send handwritten notes (there are always exceptions to the trend). But it comes across as a little out of touch to me, and poor handwriting/grammar/spelling/stationary choice doesn’t help. Plus by the time they arrive, I’ve always given my feedback already (which I do within 24 hours of the interview). So they can’t possibly help.
My rule for handwritten/emailed thank you notes is that handwritten is preferable, but if you think that a hiring decision may be made quickly then send an email. So, when I was interviewing for summer associate or first year positions and I knew that hiring decisions wouldn’t be made for weeks after my interview, I sent handwritten thank yous. But when interviewing for lateral positions, I send email thank yous because it’s possible that a hiring decision might have been made by the time my handwritten note reached them.
Curious why you think hiring decisions for summers aren’t made quickly? I get that the summer may not receive an offer for weeks after the interview, but as an associate I always fill out the evaluation within 24 hours and all the other associates and partners I know do the same. It’s no different than it is for laterals. And since the thank yous are going to the attorneys you met with, not the central recruiting person, I think speed is just as important for summers as it is for laterals.
Just for the record, this is 100% not true at my firm. We are required to submit evaluations of the candidates we met with before 8 pm on the day we interview. The decisions are made nearly immediately, because summer associate recruiting is an arms race that gets faster and earlier each year.
I was just considering this same question and concluded (via Ask A Manager) that email is best. I’m a hiring manager and while handwritten notes are sweet, that’s not exactly what I’m hiring for and an email is going to reach me much faster. If it’s a few days until I receive a thank you, I might think it’s odd but won’t hold it against the person. AAM says and I agree, handwritten notes are for personal items/issues. Email is better for professional correspondence, esp if that’s how you have been working with the hiring managers.
To the extent anecdata’s helpful, I’m in law and have never sent thank you notes or emails for interviews (on the advice of my law school’s career services office for summer associate interviews, and on the advice of my recruiter when I lateraled). I get that, for all I know, one or more of the 10 or so firms with which I had callbacks may have dinged me for the lack of thank you note — in fact, it looks pretty likely given some of the responses above! But I tend to agree that it’s far more likely to harm, via obvious things like spelling and grammar errors or more subtle issues like awkwardness or stationery choice (I received a baby pink and gold thank you card recently, two-ish weeks after the interview in question, so odd), than help.
That said, I’ve relied on advice from people who know lots more about hiring in my industry, in particular geographic markets, than I do — had I been advised to send a thank you, or even told nothing, I’d send a brief thank you email the same day as the interview, most likely after printing it out and reading it multiple times both forwards and backwards, line by line, for typos.
I’m in the market for a new watch, and think I want a Michele watch. I’m looking at the Deco style, but not sure if I want the regular, or the one with diamonds around the face. I’m a new young lawyer and don’t want the diamonds if it will make me look too flashy (or something, not sure that is the correct word?) But I also work in a very high wealth area so my clients and lawyers I work with are accustomed to nice things. Further, is there any where to get a good deal on a pre owned one in the NYC area?
I don’t think diamonds are the issue, it’s the size of the case itself. If you do a big boyfriend style watch that doesn’t leave any room on your wrist, diamonds or not, it’ll draw more attention. I think a small to medium face with diamonds looks awesome. I have the urban coquette and I love it! I’d check ebay or the Real Real.
I agree about the size of the watch drawing more attention than the diamonds. I’m team diamonds though- I’ve got an Omega Constellation that I love, in part because it’s got a pretty sleek profile.
I really like watches and would eventually like to get a nice one, interested in what people have to say!
I’ve never personally been a fan of bedazzled watches. Diamonds or not, I just think it looks a little…tacky?
+1
Most wealthy people do not wear watches like this.
I remember a WSJ article about watch collectors … the money they would drop on a timepiece is staggering, but it’s a very subtle thing. I can’t tell the difference between a $5k watch and one that costs ten times that, but other watch collectors do.
Not in NYC so maybe I am not aware of the latest fashion trends, but to me this style looks dated (circa 2005), and the diamonds make it look even more dated. It looks like a very expensive version of the $10 watches you see in the checkout line at the drugstore. I would go with a more classic style of watch that will be trend-resistant, or get a less expensive watch that is currently trendy (Shinola?) and plan to replace it when the trend fades.
I am also not a fan of bedazzled watches in general. Too much of an old-lady look.
Interesting… what are other peoples take on this?
+1 to anon at 1044; those Michelle watches seem very 2005. I wouldn’t wear a diamond watch but my aunt wears a diamond Cartier tank (don’t ask) and it’s a beauty.
Is your aunt my aunt? ;)
I was always in the opinion of no diamonds around watches, way too blingy for my taste. But then I fell in love with a Michele watch that has them and I love it. I don’t regret the diamonds for a minute and I think they are pretty muted (not the first thing you see when you look at the watch). So anyway, you do you. If you love it and it will make you happy when you wear it every day – then go for it.
I have a Michele watch, a Mini Urban with diamonds, and I do not feel it’s dated at all. I even upgraded the band several years later that has a double row of diamonds at the ends that hit the face of the watch.
I think the diamonds make the watch too busy. Surprised that the watch is carried by Walmart, at a pretty good deal: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Michele-Deco-Day-Diamond-Ladies-Watch-MWW06P000014/130733251?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=359&adid=22222222227041369374&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=90539681210&wl4=pla-212545140530&wl5=9061285&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=111840121&wl11=online&wl12=130733251&wl13=&veh=sem
I recently lateraled into a new firm as a senior associate. There’s one junior who seems to think that because I’m the newest associate, I’m the most junior associate. We’ve talked about your superiors asking you to do things that are below your level, but I’m not sure if we’ve talked about juniors acting like they’re your boss. Have you experienced this before and if so how did you deal with it?
I had a similar experience a few years ago. My entire small firm joined a bigger firm and became a distinct practice group. He was a 5th-year or so with some workflow-management responsibilities in his related group. I had over 10 yrs experience. I straight-up ignored his super unhelpful advice to avoid asking questions of certain partners and his suggestion that I should come to him to redistribute work if I get too busy. Ha, ha, no. I don’t have to work with this guy regularly though, so he’s easy to eyeroll and ignore.
I think he’ll get the message pretty quickly if you are managing him. Will you have the opportunity to assign him work? This often calls for a bit of (not heavy-handed or jerk-y, but clear and appropriate) establishment of authority – assign him the project, ask him to come to your office to meet with you about it, set the deadlines, etc.
Can you give a little more context? I’m a senior associate, and as both a mid-level and senior I have managed people who have more years experience than me (always with the partners knowledge/direction to do so). If the person has been on the case for a long time and you have just been added to a case team, it would not surprise me if he assigns you tasks on the team or gives feedback re the standard format for this case. As an example, I had a case where I was the primary associate working on the case for over 3 years. As we started preparing for trial, we added some junior partners and senior associates to the case; but I was still responsible for assigning out the different projects and they would ask me about format issues since I had been working with the partner and clients directly for years.
Now, if he is being a jerk or is very junior or is doing this for all projects, not just cases he has been on for a long time, my view would be different.
She’ll do things like instruct me to handle administrative tasks for her (not just for the team – so like, make copies FOR ME, not even, make binders for a hearing) or volunteer me to a partner to work nights and weekends doing things she was assigned because she has “personal plans.” I tell her she should ask her assistant to do administrative things. Wrt to volunteering me to partners, I generally call a team meeting to discuss the tasks that need to be done after hours and determine who needs to be available during what hours.
On admin tasks, I completely agree that you need to refuse. With regards to asking you to do projects, are these projects you know that the partner assigned to her? If so, I would just politely refuse. But sometimes my partners will ask me to call other associates to ask them to do a project – the ask is coming from the partner, he just doesn’t have time to make that call when we are already taking. Is it possible that is what is happening? (i.e., junior associate tells partner she can’t do it because of “personal plans,” and partners responds with “see if OP can do it”)
Partner will send an email to just junior (not me) saying, junior I need you to do X over the weekend. Junior will respond copying me (without talking to me first), I have personal plans this weekend but OP can do it. I then respond, let’s have a team meeting so we’re all on the same page wrt what needs to be done and when.
Maybe I missed something, but is she actually senior to you within the firm? If not, you need to straight up tell her that she doesn’t have the authority to delegate to you or to volunteer your time.
No, definitely not senior to me in the firm. Thanks, I’ll try being more direct. I’ve never had another associate, even someone senior to me, act like this so it’s a little shocking.
I would really just say: Look, I think you may be confused about my role on the team, but I’m actually senior to you. Of course, I’m happy to do what’s needed to help out the team as a whole, but in the future, do not volunteer my time or delegate to me. If you’d like my help with something, please come ask me, and I’ll help if I’m able, based on the other responsibilities the partners have asked me to take on.
Thinking about those of you that take commuter rail in NJ/NY and hoping you are all safe
Sending good thoughts from Canada! Hope everyone is safe.
Same here – sending good wishes from Seattle
Does anyone shop here? Thoughts on quality / returns / sizing? I’m not looking for heirloom-quality pieces, just a few pretty things to freshen up the closet.
If its the website I think it is…. Avoid, really really bad quality and absolutely no room for returns as they don’t get back to you. This has been discussed before, do a search of the site.
It looks like one of those super cheap Chinese clothing sites – I think you really have to see that stuff in person and try it on because it has weird sizing and mystery fabric. Probably on par with Forever 21, New Look, Primark, etc at best.
One time. Horrible quality. Item was barely recognizable as what I ordered on the website. Returns impossible. Never again.
I’m on my first big (multi-week) doc review project. Any tips on how to make it manageable?
Music! When doing doc review I found it absolutely crucial, but it’s a know-your-workplace thing, as we’ve discussed here.
Scheduled breaks and perks. The beginning will be bad because you won’t know whats going on, but at some point you’ll start to see trends or themes in the documents and that can help it feel more meaningful.
My typical progression is this. When I start a new project, I try to work in silence as I start going through the docs so I can focus on getting a strong grasp of the review protocol and general subject matter of the documents. As I get comfortable I’ll listen to music or a tv show I’ve seen a ton of times so it just becomes background noise. If the review becomes somewhat mindless I’ll listen to podcasts.
I have an adjustable desk so I switch standing and sitting. If you don’t have that option, get up to walk around every once in awhile because you might get stiff staring at the computer and only moving the mouse for long periods of time.
I find it useful to sort my batches by date. That helps so I get the same email chains more or less in a row and the topics are normally grouped closely. That helps with understanding at first and then with speed as you go along.
Happy to answer any other questions you may have. I do doc review all day every day.
I have a large team of contract reviewers on site right now, my third team on my third case this year. I don’t know how I became the contract review leader this year but ok. I tend to have my batches batched out by priv term vs nonpriv term, or priority custodians, or such, so I don’t know that sorting by date is always helpful.
I would really love to know what you think makes onboarding into a new review more helpful, less helpful; what makes a team run more or less smoothly, things I can do to make reviewers stay through the whole project, etc. And what do I do about underperformers or personality issues. Basically, help me learn what makes the team work best.
I like the way you’ve batched things out. We mostly get things by custodian. Either way, I still like sorting an individual batch by date. It’s just personal preference though.
Are the contractors at your office or offs1te? In my experience, working at the firm’s office is a much better environment for contractors to feel comfortable in. That along with good pay (for your region), overtime, and cars/meals for long hours go a long way for keeping reviewers but might be out of your hands. In NYC, $35/hour with overtime and cars/meals for something like 10+ hours was likely to keep contractors from jumping…especially if they were at the firm.
The other thing that may be out of your control but can keep contractors interested is flexibility. If you have case room hours, having an early start time and late end time is helpful so people can work a lot but fit their own personal best times to work. I’m an early bird. I’ve come in at 6am for months on projects but 7 or even 8am start times were nice for me so I can work a lot and feel like I still have an evening life. There are also people who prefer to come in later and work late. Trying to fit hours into something you don’t like is hard and might lead contractors to look for projects with “better” hours.
The best orientation meetings to me lay out as many expectations as you can. What the project duration is expected to be with a strong caveat about that being subject to change. Contractors totally understand that. The agencies often lie about duration (3 month project for a case that was really far into settlement negotiations and ends in 2 days or 2 week project for huge international bankruptcies that take years). Being open with what you know or expect is really appreciated. Another thing that helps is to say what you expect the review pace will be (if you know). It can freak out a reviewer to think they are flying through the docs thinking they are not responsive or taking forever because the privilege or subject matter is complicated. Having a number to aim for (that can be adjusted over time) is helpful.
For onboarding, a clear review protocol is number 1. Go over it in detail in the meeting but also email them copies so they can control F. Likewise, if there are privilege issues, send them the list of attorneys and firms that you are aware of. A list of search terms can help but that is case dependent. Another thing that is usually helpful is examples of hot docs. Sometimes examples of responsive or non-responsive documents can be helpful but sometimes that works best as feedback as the reviewers get going. I also really like general feedback after the first few days or week. This works best for things you see multiple reviewers doing. If you notice just 1 person making a mistake repeatedly, individual feedback is helpful. I’ve hated being on projects and just going along from day 1 for months without any feedback. I have to assume that I’m doing things right but even group reassurance that we seem to be doing things correctly is nice.
Finally, establishing a culture where questions are welcome is nice. Send out the answers to the whole group so everyone benefits. Maybe make an email list specifically for that. Some reviewers won’t ask anything but everyone benefits from seeing the others.
Recently moved to Chicago and I’m hoping to hold onto walking my 1-mile commute to work as long as I can. What gear do I need to make this happen? I’m from New England so not totally new to this, but still feel like I need a primer on commuting gear for rain, wind, snow, sleet, etc. Inspired by the Wizard of Oz weather that just deposited me at my office this morning.
I highly highly suggest a pair of LL Bean boots! They’re great for walking in snow, rain, general cold temperature weather etc…
Weather in CHI yesterday and then this morning definitely leaves something to be desired. Beautiful fall days will return…this actually feels far more late October/early November to me. My staples: good trench and Hunters on wet, rainy days. A long, to my ankles down coat and LL Bean Bean Boots for commuting in winter. It can get very, very cold and windy and if you’re walking to and through the loop it can feel like a wind tunnel between high rises.I can’t underestimate the importance of a good, long down coat for winter. Patagonia and LL Bean are favs – easily washable.
I keep a range of heels and flats at work. I am in the market for profesh, waterproof boots that I can leave on through the day with suits. Looking for recommendations.
I am a huge fan of Blondo aquaprotect boots (they have some on Amazon, Nordy’s and their own website). The aquaprotect just means they are super-duper waterproof. The calves run narrow, but they have been my go-to shoes for the past year in Boston for a ton of dog walking (new puppy) and commuting by foot. Really a huge fan.
Just ordered a pair of Blondo’s from Nordy’s! Thank you!
Sorel boots in winter are handy to have. My understanding is the Bean boots would not be great for below-20 degree weather (though YMMV depending on your feet).
Tbh, the rain is the absolute worst. I would consider taking an Uber if it’s raining hard. It’s difficult to stay dry since it’s so windy. I will usually try to wear a dress on rainy days so my pant hems don’t get splashed. You also avoid that awkward dress pants tucked into galoshes look.
Commuting shoes are a must and totally acceptable. I wear Baffin winter boots which are clunky but really warm and waterproof. Buy a long down jacket (as PP stated), at least one that goes to your knees. I have a Marmot coat and one of the nicest features is that the pockets are fleece lined. I like to wear knit hats but a lot of people wear earmuffs. Don’t go for fashion, just go for warmth.
Not a wearable item, but I would recommend keeping a static spray or dryer sheets in your office.
Chicago isn’t that different from what you are used to, and since winter is often mild until January, I recommend not buying anything until the after Christmas sales. Then stalk the bargains.
My staples are a down knee length coat (fitted, belted, interesting high neckline to make it a tad stylish) that is warm, knee high boots, booties as my staples. Boots and booties are weatherproof La Canadienne and Aquitalia that are all work appropriate, and were all bought on deep discount and I treat/maintain very well. My ultra cold weather coat is a full length shearling coat.
I have a ton of scarves, gloves (leather, lined leather, shearling, down for the worst, fingerless) and almost never wear a hat (my hair goes crazy). My warmest coats have hoods if needed.
I’m not big on ?rain gear. What works for me is a good trench (I like black, with a lining for colder weather that I can zip in/out), a good umbrella (that has layers so it wont flip inside-out in the wind, and a button for both opening and collapsing). I have a pair of Burberry knock-off rain boots (got on Amazon) and a pair of La Canadienne’s that work for snow or rain, but usually I don’t have to walk as far as you in the rain and just wear leather shoes that I treat. If you are changing shoes in the office, than wear whatever.
But seriously… don’t buy now. Assess, think about what you really want, and buy stuff on sale after Christmas.
Has anyone taken a leave of absence or reduced hours from a law firm for mental health reasons? I am suffering from severe burnout and I am strongly considering this.
Typically, your law firm will allow this if it is a serious health condition as per the FMLA or the ADA. “Severe burnout” does not count as a “mental health reason” or a serious health condition. If you are talking about a sabbatical or an extended vacation, that will be law-firm-specific. If you have a therapist/psychiatrist or other medical professional advising that you take a leave of absence for your mental health, that’s entirely different.
Hate to say this, but i think it’s really risky career wise (as an attorney) to have a psychiatrist advise FMLA.
I’d do the unpopular vacation.
still a stigma.
+1
I hate to agree with this too, but I do. I wound up being forced to disclosing anxiety/depression at my biglaw firm job and was subsequently told I had no future at the firm and needed to leave but could continue working there until I found a new job. The anxiety was cited as a reason for this decision. Yeah, illegal, I know.
Law firms don’t like things they perceive as a sign of weakness, or anything that could ‘get in the way’ of seamless client service. Old male partners generally aren’t as enlightened re; mental health issues. Even a suicide happening in the office won’t fix that (true story). Given that the profession thrives on stress and anxiety, saying that you’re really suffering is just going to be interpreted as “she can’t hack it.” Maybe your firm is kinder.
I had to do it for health reasons that weren’t easily understood and very private.
I strongly, strongly recommend taking a leave rather than reduced hours. All reduced hours will do is further amp up your stress level in trying to manage /protect the reduced hours and the accompanying politics.
Please consider doing this, or taking an “unpopular” vacation. Sometimes even a week or two of unplugging can give you the perspective you need to improve your situation and enjoy your life again.
I want to take the leave, but I am worried that politically it wouldn’t fly.
What will happen if you don’t take the leave? Also, are you sure this is the place for you long-term? Could you start with an unpopular vacation or a week of calling in sick but refusing to discuss details and see how you feel after that?
Also, just want to say that I worked at big firms for a long time, and there are awesome legal practice jobs outside of that world. Don’t confuse the sometimes awful aspects of firms with the practice of law overall. (I say that because at points during my time in BigLaw I was ready to deactivate my license and start a dogwalking business, but found an awesome gig and have never loved the law more…)
Take heart. If you want more sounding board advice on this topic, I’m happy to chat offline.
No advice on whether to take the leave but a piece of advice if you do. One thing to consider is whether you live and work in the same community and if so, if you need to be more specific about the reason for your leave. Different professions, but I know someone that needed mental health leave. His employer accepted a doctor’s letter that said he needed to be out of work for medical reasons but didn’t state what those medical reasons were. His coworkers saw him at the gym, the grocery store, his kid’s little league games and raised a big stink. They thought if he could do those things, surely he wasn’t so sick he couldn’t be at work. People sometimes think “can’t work” is the same as “can’t leave the house.” For mental health treatment you are often advised to get out and do things. Staying home all day would be detrimental. If “being seen” is going to cause you stress then you might choose to disclose more than you otherwise would. It’s a slippery issue though because there is still so much stigma around mental health. If you have a friend or family in another community, maybe you could take your mental health leave there without running into people.
I have an in-house lateral interview coming up and want some advice on attire. I plan to wear a conservative black suit and heels (no tights – still a bit warm for that) but am wondering – patterned shirt (polka dot/chevron/flower) or plain white? It’s been a while since I did this interview thing. FWIW, I probably need to looking youngish but not entry-level.
I generally wear a patterned shirt for interviews. Black suit + white top comes off a bit, career services told me to wear this. That said, there’s floral and then there’s floral. A more abstract or watercolor-like floral? Fine. Obviously floral but in muted colors? Also fine. Tons of pinks and purples and yellows and twee! No.
Plain white. Interview attire, even for an in-house, should be as basic (and boring) as possible.
Strongly disagree. I think black suit and white shirt looks juvenile. Solid color blouse totally fine. Subtle pattern totally fine.
Also disagree. Even in my first interview for my first professional job I wore a french blue silk shell with a black suit. Black suit with white shirt looks like a waiter. You can be plain and boring without looking like a waiter. I think a subtle pattern is also fine.
Strongly disagree. I’m in-house in a financial company and I wouldn’t blink if someone worse a patterned or colored shirt. I would think white under a black suit was FBI-agent chic.
I usually do a pattern. I think white looks a bit harsh on me.
Black suit and white shirt sounds like an intern interview outfit. I’d wear a color or pattern, though I don’t think any of the three patterns you mentioned sound exactly right (chevron would be better than polka dots, but no flowers).
Not OP but what about light pink with a bow? too girly? I have a cobalt blouse, a patterned white/blue/black plaid and dot pattern. I agree white is kind of boring, but what about with a nice necklace?
I like any of those options really although would be tempted to fuss with a bow too much — does it look nice in a knot?
Would you apply for a job just to see if you could get shortlisted for an interview? I saw a position that would be a good fit but I am also waiting for the paperwork for another position to be processed.
No, you’re wasting everyone’s time.
Friends I am going to Ireland tomorrow and I need packing advice.
Staying in a small town, doing all the touristy stuff, no hiking or anything (Ring of Kerry, Cliffs of Moher, some castle), 1 night 1 1/2 days in Dublin.
1) Shoes – I am wearing on the plane a pair of Frye engineer boots. I can stomp around NYC in those babies all day and my feet are fine. They have been sprayed with waterproofer and I have worn them many times in rain and snow without getting the slightest bit wet. What other shoes to I bring? My choices are hideous purple hiking shoes that look like sneakers, Dansko clogs, or Frye shooties. All have been waterproofed. I wear the Danskos as commuter shoes and unless I’m slogging through snowdrifts or deep puddles, they keep me dry enough. The Frye shooties have a bit of a heel which makes me nervous about all day wear, and they don’t go much higher up on my foot than the Danskos. All the travel blogs have me convinced that I’m going to be in ankle deep mud/water/bogs and regret not having brought my hunters which are too big for my bag.
2) Outerwear. I have a 2 rain jackets – 1 unlined and 1 lined with fleece. Do I need something longer? Again, the blogs have me convinced my jeans will be soaking wet and I will be a cold and miserable hobbit unless I wear water resistant pants (which sound so so dorky and it’s pretty much too late to get a pair anyway). Do I need some sort of long rainjacket?
3) I have packed in packing cubes but I feel like I could fit more crap without them. What is your experience with cubism?
Weather report is 60-40 degrees, rain at times every day.
Not in Ireland but in a similar climate. I wouldn’t wear waterproof pants but mostly because I find them dorky but it does depend on how you’re getting around (if you were absolutely miserable, could you pop to the b&b and change?) If I was just wandering around doing touristy stuff, I’d wear leggings and something tunic-y (+ boots and raincoat) or running tights and hiking boots if I was being totally casual.
I am obsessed with packing cubes, I use one of the ones with one hard side (the envelope one) for dresses and one or two small ones for undies, tights, workout clothes, pjs. I think they do make a difference and I use them even on quite short trips.
You should be fine with the Frye engineer boots and then probably the shooties for if you go out to dinner. I studied abroad in Ireland and did Ring of Kerry and Cliffs of Moher and generally just wore jeans and a cute rain jacket and then cute boots. I never wore waterproof pants or anything like that at all. I mean, I guess it depends on the weather, as in if its going to rain or not. But for example at the Cliffs of Moher you don’t hike, you just park and walk up a paved road.
This. I visited Ireland with similar weather that is forecasted. I brought jeans and leggings with a rain jacket that folded into a pouch. I brought a pair of black booties with a very slight heel and had my cobbler put new soles on them for better traction and wore them pretty much everywhere, including walking all over Dublin and walking up the Cliffs of Moher. No issues and I never felt like I was uncomfortably wet.
I don’t think you’ll need waterproof trousers; you should be fine with a raincoat and an umbrella. I’d bring some non-denim trousers though!
Non denim trousers because of weather or because I’ll look too casual? I have 2 pairs of “utility” pants as the Gap now calls them in olive and dark tan. Plus 1 pair of dark jeans for night, 1 pair or regular jeans for day, and 1 pair of black leggings.
Just because of the weather… wet cold jeans are the worst if you’re stuck in them for a while. We’ve had a pretty dry and warm summer, for us, here in the UK, so you might be lucky and get nice weather!
I think waterproof pants are only necessary when you’re planning on doing a multi-day hike in the rain or will be doing something in extreme weather. I wouldn’t wear them for visiting tourist attractions. Athletic leggings are good enough to wear if you’re going to be out in the rain for hours.
You are all the best – thank you! (Please keep the advice/info coming!)
As someone who’s been to Ireland several times in multiple seasons, I’d worry less about waterproof pants (although I second the suggestions aboveabout athletic pants and fabrics that are comfortable when wet) and more about staying warm, especially in the evening. Irish buildings often aren’t as insulated as buildings in the northern US. If it’s in the 40s outside and the hotel or restaurant isn’t well insulated, you’re going to feel cold. Very cold. Bring layers.
…was Melania Trump wearing a cocktail dress to the debates. Why.
Meh. It was a black dress that, if not for the fact that it was off-the-shoulder, would have been perfectly appropriate for work. Since she wasn’t going to work, I think the off the shoulder bit was fine. It’s not like she wore a J. Lo Grammy gown with a slit down to her belly button. I have a million and one problems with Trump but Melania’s clothing is not one of them.
Because she’s just watching and can wear whatever she wants.
It’s a more daring choice than most Republican wives have worn in the past, but I’m not offended. A lot of news anchors wear cocktail dresses, hers was just showing some shoulder.
Are you talking about the bell sleeved dress? I loved it and thought she looked awesome. I was considering getting something similar. It seems like a versatile and on-trend piece.
No, it’s this dress (also worn by Heidi Klum): https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/melania-heidi.jpg?w=450
I thought it was lovely and appropriate and I wouldn’t really call it a c-tail dress.
She’s the one aspect of Trump-related that I don’t hate on. Sometimes I feel like you can see in her face that she didn’t ask for this and doesn’t really want it. I do hate on how he talks about her (and his treatment of the women who marry him generally). I would miss the amazing example for young women that Michelle Obama has set. Trump & Melania don’t hit me as a team that decides things together (or even discusses issues) so I don’t blame her for this whole mess.
Yes, I agree. Actually, I’d go further and say that I like her. She strikes me as intelligent and hard working. But maybe not super intelligent because she married that guy….
Can’t bring this up in real life but — I am having a hard time working in a “regular” work environment. Was in biglaw for almost 8-9 yrs in NYC. For those of you who’ve experienced it, it is not a normal environment typically — meaning you work a LOT; your life centers on work; and when you aren’t working, you go out with your friends/dates and eat out pretty much every meal. I fit it with my colleagues really well; I don’t even know what we talked about but we were all of similar interests. It isn’t the type of place where people are cooking (not most people), gardening (no outdoor space), couponing, obsessing about their child/dog (some people had a dog w/ daycare/walkers etc, almost no one in the associate ranks in my firm had a child or if they did they weren’t hanging out with us).
So I moved on for a good non-firm opportunity outside of NYC (another big city – a big secondary market), and I’m turned off by how “ordinary” life is. I’m NOT suggesting I want to be partying with my coworkers in my 30s. But when they talk about how they made fresh salsa or how getting their kid to preschool in the morning is such stress or their garden or whatever — I have NO interest and as much as I hide it, it shows. Thing is — I knew this about my personality and when I was interviewing, I was actively trying to go someplace with a lot of 30-somethings who came from biglaw; I knew I couldn’t relate to people in their 50s who had been in govt their whole lives. And yet here I have 32 yr olds talking about baking bread . . . . Is it just this group of people? Is this just how life is outside of NYC biglaw – or once people have families/houses/jobs that aren’t 24-7? Bc I don’t think I can survive another conversation about food or children or whatever . . . . Help.
Gently, I can’t tell what you’re imagining that they would talk about if they weren’t talking about their hobbies (baking, food, etc.), their families, or basic water-cooler stuff (the news, sports, etc.). In your alternative imaginary perfect world, what would those conversations be about?
If you *can* answer that question, I think that probably means you have different interests than your co-workers. If you can’t, I think that probably means that it doesn’t have much to do with them, and much more to do with your adjustment to a world that values life over work.
Agreed.
Yes, completely.
+1 to cbackson as always.
+1. And also, this will probably be a self-solving problem if you can’t even feign interest in coworkers’ lives.
+1 Yeppers
Well – that is how many people choose to live, outside NYC. I think NYC life, even non-biglaw, is a different beast (come in at 9 or 10, work till 8 or 9, go out every night, rinse and repeat).
Surely you’ve got hobbies outside of work? TV you watch? Exploring new restaurants? Is there a way you can talk about those things to connect with people? Is one of your goals to fit in and not come across as condescending, or does that not really matter so much to you?
So…It’s small talk around the cooler. When they’re discussing fresh salsa, can’t you say, “That sounds so good. I saw fresh tomatoes at the farmers market OR I ate a really great salsa at such and such restaurant OR I’m planning to pick up some salsa at the grocery while I watch the game this weekend.” The person will probably respond with questions about whatever thing you just mentioned. You chat for two minutes and go back to work.
I think that people outside of NYC – and sometimes it’s ‘burbs- just settle down faster and “going out” ( big dinner, Binge boozing and a late night) are less important. I’m mid thirties in the ‘burbs and my coworkers are really fun, but a lot of their social lives still revolve around the above things.
* Its
Yeah, this is a huge lifestyle change — I went through it a bit myself. There’s a certain intense-focus-smart mood in BigLaw and I really thrived on it. You’re talking about clients, ridiculous things that happened in negotiations, internal firm politics, etc. It’s fun to debrief. With no time for hobbies anyway, of course that’s not the focus of conversation.
But… even if you found your utopia of 30-something BigLaw refugees, everyone left for a reason though, right? Presumably you wanted a little less “work” in your work life balance too, and with that comes also a little more “life” in your workplace. What “life” are you filling in that you could initiate conversation about? For some people, that’s children and homemaking, so of course that’s where they start with small talk….
OP here — we talk about news and sports bc I bring it up. In my perfect world, we’d talk a LOT more about law — cases that are making industry press; did you hear such and such firm filed x etc. It just seems professional to me. To me chatting about your food or grocery shopping or family puts you in the category of — I am here to fulfill the obligation of getting paid but I’m really thinking about stopping at ShopRite later. I just keep thinking – so self respecting lawyer in NYC would talk about making their own salsa or growing their own string beans or clipping coupons — bc can’t you afford to buy those things and without coupons!? Or go to a restaurant where they have those things? It’s not about knowing what to say — when they talk about salsa, yes I can talk about how good the fresh tomatoes are right now. It’s about feeling like – um you’re 35 yrs old and a high earning professional, and THIS is interesting to you??
God talking about the law all the time sounds like a boring nightmare. As do you. Plenty of self-respecting NYC lawyers make their own salsa because they want to. Using a coupon isn’t a moral failing.
To me what is sad is being a 35 year old professional only interested in law and eating out. What is the point of your life?
This.
If all you can talk about is the law and eating out, you need more hobbies or interests.
^This. You sound holier than thou and obnoxious as hell for judging people for their perfectly normal hobbies and activities. If you don’t enjoy food or kids or whatever, then just don’t participate in the conversation. But jesus, listen to yourself – the disdain is oozing from your text, and you sound like a terrible person.
You do you. But the vast majority of high-earning, professional lawyers (and others) in their 30s talk about stuff other than the legal industry.
I’m sorry but what you’re describing is a pretty typical office. Your colleagues are not the problem here — you’re coming across exactly like a stereotypical jacka$$ NYC BigLaw lawyer. “I don’t need coupons” “Gardening is for boring people” well OK then, won’t bother getting to know you any more!
I worked in Big Law (not in NYC, but in another major city) and nobody made small talk about the law. We talked about hobbies, sports, news, the weather, people’s families….And when we did make small talk about work-related things, it wasn’t in an intellectual way. We would whine about opposing counsel or gossip about summer associates. I would have blown my brains out if people only wanted to debate Supreme Court opinions. That sounds absolutely awful to me.
Yes, exactly this. Worked in Big Law for five years and we rarely made small talk about the law. Honestly, we all worked so much that was the last thing we wanted to talk about.
Yep. And I was in biglaw in NYC. Nobody I worked with really chatted about the law.
Also, I’m a lawyer in NYC and I DO like making fresh salsa, and if I had a backyard, you can bet that I’d be puttering around in a little garden possibly growing my own string beans. And while biglaw money gives you the luxury of paying full price for almost anything, is it really horribly offensive that some people choose to be more frugal?
My job is interesting and I like it, but it’s not my life. My paycheck facilitates my life.
So much yes to your last four sentences!
Yes, because some people have interests outside of work. Would a lawyer in NYC talk about making their own salsa? Maybe not. But might they talk about the food at the fancy restaurant they ate at last night? Would it help to think about their gardening hobby not as a boring suburban hobby but rather as an extension of them being a super foodie that goes so far as to grow their own tomatoes in order to have the absolute freshest ingredients? My husband’s major hobby is gardening, and he always jokes that he could pay money to go to a gym and work out and then pay big bucks to go to a restaurant that advertises “fresh, local ingredients” – or he could burn an equal number of calories hoeing the weeds from his garden (it’s hard, physical labor) and then eat a meal with ingredients that are as fresh and local as they can get, picked straight out of his garden, for a fraction of the cost.
Also, don’t be a snob. Some people don’t live to work, they work to live – and there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just not you. When I’m at the water cooler or on my lunch break, yes, I’m chatting about food, because that’s the topic at hand. But when I’m back at my desk, I’m back to being my professional self and I’ve set aside my food thoughts for later.
I also talk about things like my kids and food and my hobbies because those are “safe” topics, and I don’t want to talk about my job 100% of my day. News, politics, current events – all too risky at work, as it’s likely to stir up a hornets nest.
Wow. You are coming across as such a materialistic snob in this post, especially this part: “[n]o self respecting lawyer in NYC would talk about making their own salsa or growing their own string beans or clipping coupons — bc can’t you afford to buy those things and without coupons!? Or go to a restaurant where they have those things?”
First of all, I’m a lawyer in a Biglaw-scale boutique in NYC (who, I hope, is self-respecting, although apparently not in your book) and my colleagues and I absolutely talk about things we cooked or picked up at the farmer’s market or my colleague’s kid’s first day of preschool or my brother’s upcoming wedding or whatever, because we like each other, like to hear about each other’s lives, and use our (limited) spare time to do things like read books and watch new Netflix series and play soccer and run 10Ks, instead of being obsessive law robots who live only to work and spend our Biglaw-level money.
The work environment you’re describing as “ideal” sounds to me like a pack of show-offs competing for the role of “most lawyeriest lawyer,” and would make pretty most people (yes, including self-respecting lawyers!) miserable. Your coworkers are not the problem here. Either get an actual life or go back to Biglaw.
I’m a huge nerd about my field. I still chat mostly about non-work stuff , because 1) I, too, have interests outside of work, and 2) I care about my coworkers as humans and am interested in what’s going on with their lives. I promise you, being passionately committed to your field and also being alllll about that fresh homemade salsa are not mutually exclusive.
Right?? I like talking shop too, but when work is over, I’m doing other stuff that I also care about. If you’re giving people the message that having a life outside of work makes them boring or dumb, that’s a major problem professionally. I think you’ll adjust to the values-based life, but it’ll take time. Maybe now you can spend your extra time and energy doing something related to law, but not a work like volunteering, writing for a law publication or networking. But you gotta find a way to stop looking down on people for having families and hobbies and making their own food. Relax a bit and let yourself find other meaning in life.
Exactly! I am an appellate lawyer–we are the nerdiest of law nerds and well we do often talk about upcoming arguments, cert. petitions to watch, or recently handed down opinions, we also talk just as much about our children, vacations, my co-worker’s urban chicken farming, etc. I can’t imagine talking about law all day everyday! Especially when you deal with serious cases. I need an escape from it sometimes.
Boy, you must be fun at parties.
Thank you saying what I wanted to say.
So I’m 35 years old and a Biglaw partner, and while I occasionally come into a co-worker’s office and vent about how I absolutely can’t believe what just happened in MDL 1720, I spend a lot of time talking about:
-People’s kids and my awesome dog.
-Hobbies (the sports people like to do, the beer somebody is brewing, my associate’s sneaker collection)
-Family/personal life activities (home renovations, my new associate’s quest to find a couch, upcoming vacations)
I mean this as kindly as possible, but the problem here is you. It seems like you’re clinging to your past Biglaw/NYC life, and unfortunately, you’re doing that in a way that is making you come off (at least in this post) as both snobby and out of touch. Surely you understand that the point of making your own salsa isn’t that you can’t afford to go to Dos Caminos. You know that in your rational mind…right?
You changed your life for a reason. I think you need to figure out who you are when you aren’t at the office. If you were forced not to work for six months and you had perfect financial security during that time, what would you do? That’s the person you need to find again. I suspect that person is far less judgmental of her peers than the person who’s appearing in this post.
First, join ACS or the Fed Soc. Then you’ll have an outlet for your law nerdiness.
Second, a lot of people think frugality is a virtue. Living below your means can be great – especially if you have kids. A lot of people have definitions of what is “affordable” that is not yours – ie they can’t afford to waste money.
You might be shocked at how much your coworkers have in the bank (or how much home equity they have).
This is an excellent suggestion. Maybe also a section within the Bar that focuses on your substantive area of specialty.
So from this and your other posts I think the real problem is that you want your life to be 100% work and you want to make small talk with your co-workers about work, because nobody has any hobbies or life outside work. Very few people, especially outside of NY Big Law, have lives that are completely family- and hobby-free, and even in NY Big Law not everyone is happy about the fact that their lives revolve around work, so yeah, you’re going to have a tough time relating to most people. This isn’t about the fact that your co-workers have kids or like making bread. You can find people who are into things besides cooking and children. But you’re not going to be able to find a large community of people who don’t have families or hobbies and are happy to work 100 hours a week and want to eat/sleep/breathe work.
If all you want to do is live to work, and you have no interest in any of the things most people do when they have lives outside of work, why on earth did you leave Biglaw? I know so many people trying to get out right now precisely because they are trying to have a life where they can garden and have kids and bring their kids to school and take their dogs to the farmer’s market on weekend, and you’re complaining about it. I just… why? Why would you take a position like this and then look down on people who are doing exactly what people in that kind of position typically do in their lives?
Co-signing this question — honestly, OP, sounds like you’re the ideal BigLaw lifer…
I’m pretty sure this is the person who has posted a billion times before about how she was forced out of NY Big Law and is now in govt in DC. It wasn’t her decision to leave Big Law, which is the root of the whole problem.
I bet you’re right. Which makes this worse.
I get this having moved from banking into a corporate buyside role and out of NYC. I know you don’t mean to be snobbish, but its different. When I was in NY, even when I was in banking here in Houston my friends all had good jobs and we used to bounce ideas off each other about our jobs / careers / lives because we all shared a similar focus and vision of life. Now, I don’t have that kind of support from many corners here and I have less people that I can really connect with on an intellectual / life path level. I think this has been both good and bad.
The good is that you develop communication strategies for people in a work setting where maybe you didn’t in an arena like NYC where everyone is on the ball and similarly aligned at work.
The bad in my experience is that I really don’t want to have another conversation about interior decorating, and I really have been shocked at how many people barely read / follow world events / understand that there is life outside of their very small sphere and there are people with different values who are just different, not better or worse. I think in NYC forces you to interact with people who are “other” than you socially, as opposed to leaving work and going back to a suburban enclave where everyone lives the same life / has the same ideas about their lives.
I’d give OP the benefit of the doubt. I think you are an intellectual and would like to talk about intellectual rather than mundane topics (world events, news, engaged discussions on politics maybe?, and of course law). You’ll need to find someone on your wavelength, and this may not happen at work. Join a forum or an organization where you have more like minded people.
“I think in NYC forces you to interact with people who are “other” than you socially, as opposed to leaving work and going back to a suburban enclave where everyone lives the same life / has the same ideas about their lives.”
Lol.
Yeah, all that elbow-rubbing NY Biglaw lawyers do with everyone else….
I have the same problem in Houston!
Are you the same person who has written numerous times about having a hard adjustment to gov’t and wanting to return to Big Law?
I agree with others that most people don’t talk about the law as small talk, even in Big Law. Even where I curently work, which is filled with Harvard magna cum laude grads, we talk about our kids, the presidential debate, and SOMETIMES — about an upcoming SCOTUS argument. But not that often.
Good small talk topics: restaurants that you enjoyed, what you did on the weekend, vacations, etc.
Op here – ok so it’s just me – thanks. Moved to Philly for a life/relationship reason. Thanks to the 2-3 ppl here who gave me the benefit of the doubt. Yes – I prefer serious/intellectual conversation at work and no that doesn’t mean Supreme Court discussions; it simply doesn’t include trading recipes. I am actually looking to join a bar committee and do actual work/writing for it.
Your tone here is just so, so disdainful of your coworkers.
Your preferences are what they are, and that’s fine (although, obviously from this thread, I think, they’re not shared widely), but do you have to be so dismissive of the topics that the apparent majority in your office are interested in? Your problem isn’t that your coworkers are boring, your problem is that you think you’re better than them. Knock it off if you want to have even halfway decent relationships at work.
Anyone have any anecdotes about women proposing to their (male) SO’s? Please share! It’s a little while away for me (I want our jobs and finances to stabilize first), but I’m strongly considering it and I think he’d like it quite a lot. Related subject: any nice dress watches around the $1k mark that would be suitable as an engagement watch? Is that too cheap for something really nice?
I know someone who did proposed to her man with a personalized label on a bottle of wine. It worked.
Lorelai Gilmore did it! (The TV character not the person who comments here using that name.) I don’t know anyone in real life who’s done it, but I think it’s a great idea if you think he’d be on board with it. Like with a traditional proposal, I would talk about engagement first – not the specifics of the proposal, but the general idea of getting married – and make sure you’re on the same page. I think a dress watch is a great engagement gift!
Yeah, he’s TOTALLY on board with engagement and I’ve been the one with cold feet, so I think it would be really meaningful for me to be the one to do it. He’s also super duper feminist and I think would take it as a point of pride to be with a woman who’d take it upon herself :)
One of my favorite stories about my family: My grandfather was a sailor in WWII. He was on leave in Boston (and in uniform) when my grandmother spied him at a dance. My grandmother was a very proper lady, whose mother was an even more proper woman. Months later, my grandmother proposed to my grandfather. When my grandmother told her mother that she was engaged, she said fine. When my grandmother told her mother that SHE had proposed, my great grandmother got up and danced around their Boston townhouse. My grandparents were married more than 50 years, and my spunky — yet proper — grandmother still dances everyday at her nursing home in Florida. (She sends me emails)
Ah! I love everything about this story!!
That’s such a lovely story!
Strictly speaking, I guess you could say I proposed. We’re not into theatrics though, so while we were relaxing around a fire one night I was like “Hey do you want to just married?” And he said “Yeah, totally!” and I think we high-fived.
I love this, and something similar (whether I did the asking or not) would be my ideal proposal!
This is so my speed.
We didn’t do a proposal per se — it was more of an ongoing discussion that I ended up driving because the actual getting married part just wasn’t that big of a deal to him. I brought up that I’d like to get married at some point and he was on board. And then a couple years later I mentioned that if we wanted to get married next summer, we’d need to send out invitations in the early spring, which meant telling our families and planning the logistics in the December/January timeframe.
If you and your partner like big dramatic gestures, a proposal may be nice. Don’t feel like there needs to be one though if that’s not you and your partner’s style.
We got each other nice watches as an engagement present. We gave each other some basic guidance and it was a lot of fun picking something out for him and then exchanging gifts. I found him an Omega Speedmaster (around $3k or so).
I proposed to my husband! Anon because the story might out me. We’d been together for about four years (during and post-college), and I’d known for about half of that time that I wanted to marry him. We were making the decision about where I would go to law school, and I realized that if we were making such a big decision as “we,” I wanted to take a formal relationship step to recognize that. I bought him a ring, a sterling silver band engraved with a romantic saying in the language of his heritage, and hid it in our bedroom for 3 months. After we had the final talk about law school selection, I went and grabbed it and proposed… sitting on his lap in sweaty gym clothes (not my idea – he had plans that night and wouldn’t let me shower before our talk!).
We had definitely talked about a future together, but I took him by surprise, and he told me later he felt a bit pressured/rushed. But we were engaged for two years before the wedding and spent a lot of time talking and planning, and even though he still gets teased a bit by his friends about how I proposed, he’s happy I did – the timing has worked out really well for us!
Best of luck – it’s incredibly nerve-racking, but worth it!
I posted a couple of weeks ago about whether or not I should buy a lighter colored suit from Nordstroms (Classiques Entier) to use for interviews. I ended up buying the suit; it came yesterday, and wow was I disappointed. The jacket fits so I’m keeping it (it will go well with a black dress I have or jeans), but the pants were awful. One size fit well around the waist, including when sitting or bending over, but was way too tight across the hip area – pulling at the front, pockets stuck out and fit like the tightest pair of running leggings I own around back – and I was swimming in the next size up.
I guess I’m just disappointed that the pants were $150 full price, unlined, no belt loops and very thin material. I have a pair of Loft pants I bought many years ago which are 99% cotton and 1% spandex and even though they’re a little tight across the hips, it’s OK because they are thick enough to not cling and they have belt loops. I don’t think that equivalent quality dress pants for under $100 exist anymore.
Where I live Macys , Talbots and Banana Republic are the only options so I guess I just have to go there every other weekend to try and find something. I’m pretty pear shaped (sports growing up and I run, bike and hike now) so does anyone have any recommendations for best pants for an athletic pear?
Lafayette 148 is expensive but fits pear-shaped me off the rack. I strongly suggest taking other pieces to a tailor. Well-fitting Banana Republic clothes look 1e7 times better than ill-fitting Armani.
Thanks. I expect that I would have to get pants tailored, I’ve just tried on a lot of pants that I don’t think tailoring could save or would require so much tailoring as to make buy off the rack pants almost pointless.
Check out the Calvin Klein suiting at Macy’s – I’m a super-pear and I find it really flattering. Not the highest quality in the world, but it’s generally as good as or better than you’d expect for the price point.
Also look at Tahari ASL, also at Macy’s and online. Not the best quality but perfectly fine, and the fit is usually spot on for my pear shape.
Yes for Calvin Klein and other Macy’s suiting for being good enough for the price point, and decent for a pear. You may not find anything that fits perfectly off the rack, but taking in the waist on a pair of pants that otherwise fits well isn’t an expensive alteration. When you are trying on clothes, if you find a pair that otherwise fits in the hips and thighs, you can use binder clips to hold the sides together to see how the pants would fit after altering.
Since you are in STEM, are you anticipating ever needed to wear a suit again other than interviews? Other than interviews, I’ve never had an occasion to wear a full suit again, so I’ve tried to get pieces that work as a full suit when I have interviews but that I can wear as separates on other dressy occasions (conferences, etc).
The Limited suiting also works as “good enough” suiting if you have one in your area, and their pants seem more like regular slacks to me rather than “suit pants” – so I do wind up actually wearing them to work, unlike other suit pants.
I only anticipate needing a suit for interviews but I would like to get something I can wear seperately to build a more business casual wardrobe – currently the only pair of dress pants I own are the >= 6yr old Loft pants.
It looks like Macys or Banana Republic will be the best option for me, but the ones in town is pretty small so I have to keep going back. Unfortunately the closest The Limited or Ann Taylor is a 2hr drive…
Can you order and send back/return items from Macys? I’ve found that with clothing they don’t have a large selection of women’s business wear in the store…
I find that a lot of cheaper suit pants are truly awful. I always go skirt.
Yes, I spent a Sunday at the closest outlet mall and was disappointed in quality. I’ve also looked at skirts but I don’t think pencil skirts are for me, or at least not without tailoring, given my pear shape and that I grew up doing lower body focused sports. Every pencil skirt I’ve tried on has not looked appropriate for work. I have a black dress that should work for most things though.
You might think about The Skirt … Halogen seamed. It’s gone down in quality but as an hourglass I think it works. I really do size up two sizes to accommodate everything except my waist. Then it all lays well and is work appropriate – after the waist is tailored in big time. I buy for the hips and for the bust … everything I own but tshirts for lawn work and grocery store are tailored one way or another.
I used to buy Lafayette but they changed their pants fit and it was not a good change if you have any curves or a pear shape. Now I love Boss suits. They are pricey but worth it and you can usually find them on sale. Last year I had a three week jury trial and my four Boss suits got me through beautifully. I highly recommend them.
Lafayette is bringing back their Menwear pants, much to my pear-shaped relief. Basler and Elie Tahari also work for me.
Thanks to the woman yesterday who spoke about having a potential lead on a desi aunty who ships chapatis. Please pass along the contact info! You can write me at corpor e t t e fan1008 at gmail (no spaces in actual address, trying to avoid moderation here).
And to the desi check who doesn’t like chapatis…to each her own! I like nan too, but as a treat (all purpose flour + whole milk = not that healthy). Chapatis are so much healthier (whole wheat/multigrain flour and minimal or no oil).
It sounds like a regular bikini trimmer will be less painful and easier to manage (and cheaper) than a full Brazilian bikini wax. The one time I trimmed myself though it caused major itchiness down there and I was told by my eyebrow waxing person said that was because I created blunt ends to the hair instead of yanking them out and having softer ends grow in. That’s actually why I was thinking about the waxing as an alternative. For those who trim/landscape, do you trim so closely that your hair does not poke you back at all? I’m trying avoid itchiness as I’m already prone to itchy skin. Also, has anyone tried sugaring and is that less painful?
I went from Brazilian sugaring to using an electric razor because of the pain/expense. Mine is called the Panasonic Close Curves and I got it on Amazon. It works really well, and if I trim with tiny scissors first then use the razor it is a really close, smooth shave. There is still some itchiness and ingrown hairs because I have really sensitive skin, but much less compared to sugaring.
Shave after showering when the hair is soft, exfoliate every day afterwards, and use unscented solid deodorant on your lady parts to prevent chafing.
There’s a ton of itchiness the first time you trim or shave. It gets substantially better after the first couple times. I shave everything off about once a month and now have zero itchiness when it regrows.
You might try Body Glide instead of deodorant; it has to have less components … especially if some goes astray.
I need help with what feels like kind of a silly question – is there a trick (or product) for getting fitted sheets to stay firmly on the mattress? Especially during um, vigorous gardening gardening activities? I feel like I have to pull my sheets back into place every other morning and it is really annoying. I tried clips that were supposed to keep them on tighter but then the clips just fell off. Are my sheets just too slippery? I sleep on pretty normal but super soft/high thread count sheets. I feel like I should have figured this problem out a long time ago but its driving me totally nuts!
Do you have a mattress pad? That will help your fitted sheet grip; a mattress is really slippery without it.
Fitted sheets with elastic on the edges of the pockets? You are pulling the elastic part all the way down under the bottom of the mattress?
Yes! But it will often migrate up to the side of the mattress on one or two corners in the middle of the night. The sheets aren’t actually coming off my bed, just getting loose and wrinkled.
Try ones made for a deeper mattress?
My grandma uses huge safety pins, 3 per side of the bed.
It sounds like your sheets are too small for your mattress. You need deep pocket sheets.
Make sure you buy the fitted sheets with deep pockets. Mattresses are thicker now than ever, so you have to get the deep pocket ones to hold usually.
I hate when the fitted sheet slips off, so I only buy ones with extra deep pockets and thick elastic. It really tucks under the mattress and stays put.
https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Sheet-Fasteners-Suspenders-Black/dp/B00TGPU3FC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475168361&sr=8-1&keywords=mattress+clips
Use 100% cotton sheets not the satiny ones.
Last night I had s$x for the first time with the new guy I’ve been dating…and discovered his p$nis is enormous. Like, the biggest I’ve ever seen in real life. My exact words upon seeing it for the first time were “Oh boy.” He didn’t have any lube handy (wtf) so our encounter was painful and awkward for me. Plus I was nervous about doing it so I’m sure that didn’t help. I’m feeling the after effects today.
Any advice? Has this happened to anyone else? Next time, I know for sure we need lube, more foreplay, and more time.
Don’t have uncomfortable sex. Painful and awkward aren’t fun. You deserve pleasure, too.
Help! How do those of you who speak with clients nearly all day or do speaking at conferences keep your mouth from being so dry? I already drink lots and lots of water and have found it nearly impossible to not have that cotton dryness in my mouth. I don’t necessarily want to be chewing gum or having a mint in my mouth all the time. Any ideas or recommendations?
I feel like this gets better the more confident I am, but I have this problem as well when public speaking. I go with gum — not really chewing it, just having it in my mouth seems to help. No one has noticed it and, like I said, it’s not like I’m chewing / smacking it. I’d love to hear if anyone else has better ideas. There are special dry mouth mouthwashes, but I don’t know how long they last.
Well my moderate Republican father (who abhors Trump) has decided not to vote for Johnson after this latest debacle where he couldn’t name a single foreign leader. So I guess that’s a win? I’m still working on convincing him to vote for HRC. At the moment he says he’s sitting the whole thing out.
Could you move him over to voting HRC for Prez and GOP down ballot? What issues does he care about? You might not get him to agree with all her policies but if there’s one or two things he cares about that you can point to as HRC positions – you might get him on side. Or send him the Arizona Republic editorial on why they’re supporting a Democrat for the first time in 120 years.
Also, Johnson is a moron – this is a super common question that he should have had a prepared answer for.
Yeah, I’ve been trying. The problem is he’s actually not that opposed to Hillary on the issues (she is fairly moderate after all), he just hates her personally and says he can’t bring himself to vote for her. If he weren’t in a swing state, I wouldn’t press the issue, since it really wouldn’t matter. But he’s in one of the states that is most likely to be the tipping point in the election! I’ve been talking to him about it every day. He did say if Trump does something “terrible” between now and the election, he’ll vote for Hillary. I don’t know why all the terrible things he’s already done aren’t enough. Sigh.
He had a lawsuit filed against him last week for raping a 13-year-old. You could send your father the article on that.
Johnson was asked to name a world leader *he admires*. Yes – he should have prepared for this question. No – it’s not the same as failing to name a single world leader.
If you were a 20 or 30-something associate, what is a gift in the $30-$50 range that you would want to receive from your firm? My father is a partner in a firm that has traditionally given their associates knick-knacks as Christmas gifts (Christmas ornaments, decorative plates, etc.). The shopping got passed to my mother this year and I assured her no one wants these items and am trying to provide her with a suitable replacement. My first thought was consumables, but there are non-drinkers so wine/alcohol is not an option and they won’t do gift cards. Nice chocolates?
Swell bottle, picnic blanket, nice umbrella.
I like the Swell bottle idea – practical but way nicer than the usual water bottles people use.
+1
Something useful and high quality.
Don’t give me chocolate. There’s trillions of chocolates around the holidays.
YETI tumblers
the BEST for coffee to go
YES! Thank you! Just suggested this to my Mom and I think this is what they are going to go with if she can get my Dad on board. My husband and I are obsessed with our YETIs. I don’t know why I didn’t think of this.
There’s a company here in Austin called Rambleron that will etch the firm’s logo on Yeti cups. They look great. Just added food for thought.
I’m firmly in the camp that real gifts shouldn’t have advertisements on them. Otherwise you’re just giving the employees promotional items. Which is fine, but it’s not a gift.
I would like chocolates or a selection of coffee and teas and a nice mug. I would stay away from firm-branded swag like hats, umbrellas, blankets, etc. Not sure about you dad’s firm but at mine they give that stuff away at firm events so I’d like something different for the holidays.
Also as someone who’s Jewish I just have to say, please don’t do something obviously Christmas-y like a Christmas ornament. That would make me feel really excluded. I don’t really care if it’s called a Christmas gift or a holiday gift (everyone knows “holiday” in America means Christmas anyway) but I don’t want a wreath or a tree ornament.
I like those stupidly expensive fruit baskets, or chocolates and things.
Portable phone charger. Solar battery/charger. Noise cancelling head phones.
A really sturdy umbrella (unless the firm is in an arid climate)
A GlassyBaby candleholder. If the recipient doesn’t like it, it’s a great hostess re-gifting gift.
http://www.glassybaby.com
Found the other Seattleite. Virtual high five.
Can anyone recommend a great accountant for personal taxes in Toronto? It would be for me (lawyer) and DH (consultant). I’m not a partner so I don’t need anything too fancy, but would really prefer not to file my own taxes any more and deal with claiming income from investments, etc. DH and I are also planning (hoping?) to buy a house in the reasonably foreseeable future, which would require me to sell several investments and claim capital gains/losses for the down payment. I took baby tax but am now a litigator and don’t want to think about that sort of headache-y stuff again. Please help?
If you have a reasonable guess of how much this type of service would cost as well, major brownie points to you.
TIA!
I’ve used Shayan Rashid at http://www.srjca.com/ for a few years, he’s been great. Answers all my questions year-round and helps with some basic tax planning. I’ve paid between $300-600/year depending on what I’ve had going on (house sale, etc).