Corporette.com

Updated: Dec 31, 2020 408 Comments · by

Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Brushstroke Plisse Skirt

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

How pretty is this midi skirt? I like the abstract pattern and the combination of black, blue, and white. I would wear this with a black blazer and black blouse for a more formal office look. For a more fun look, I’d do an emerald green blouse or another jewel tone.

The skirt is $602 at Neiman Marcus, marked down from $1,004, and it’s available in sizes 0–12. Brushstroke Plisse Skirt

A couple of options that are more affordable are from A.L.C. (on sale for $198) and Milly (on sale for $193) 

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  2. Overseas family visit now vs. later

    Ok, this topic has maybe been covered before, but here goes: My family of 3 lives in the US, all our relatives live in Germany. We were supposed to visit them this summer, but the airline changed our flights and eventually we were able to push the flights out to mid-July, buying some time to reassess the situation. Travel is from a major US hub with one short connecting flight in Europe.
    We are on the extremely cautious side of things, and have been in self-isolation with our preschooler since mid-March. We have been discussing whether to postpone the trip even further, but it’s hard to decide what is safe when, so I’m trying to get some perspectives from anonymous people on this site, lol.

    Here are some of the things we consider re: travelling in July vs. later in the fall vs. summer 2021:
    1. Germany has managed the Covid-19 situation quite well (whether through luck or policies, who knows), even though of course local outbreaks sometimes occur (usually linked to workplaces or community events). Schools won’t start in most places in Germany until mid-August, so that risk of spread is probably lower than during the school year.
    2. We would in any case self-isolate in an AirBnB for 10 days or so to minimize risk to our parents, regardless of whether the local health department may require quarantine or not.
    3. Very few people fly right now, as most Americans have cancelled summer travel to Europe, and business travel mostly hasn’t restarted. Friends who did this trip in the last weeks reported empty airports and airplanes, so risk seems low to contract something while traveling?
    4. July/August trip is before fall/winter season, where the situation is expected to get much worse again with people spending more time indoors.
    5. Vacation time is not a major issue, as I’m already working from home 100% for a large European company, and could easily do that from Germany, too.

    On the other hand:
    1. No good treatment is available yet, but might be later this year. Vaccine maybe next year? So should we hold off with the travel?
    2. A few of the family members with whom we would stay work in settings where they could be exposed. We might get sick abroad, need treatment and get stuck there for the time of illness.
    3. The situation may not stay stable – what if there is another outbreak in Germany while we are there, flights are cancelled and we’re stuck there for weeks?

    The thought of not seeing our ageing parents (one is 80+) until summer of 2021 does not really seem like the best option, but obviously we’re not quite comfortable to enthusiastically jump on a transatlantic flight either.

    What would you all do?

      • Ribena

        Bear in mind the German R rate has gone way up due to an outbreak and a relatively low number of existing cases. The U.K. is seeing that same number of new cases every day.

    • Anonymous

      I think if you’re going to go this summer, now is better than the fall.

    • Anon

      I know people will disagree, but I would go now while there is a lull. I would make sure that that you have medical coverage in Germany, though.

      • Seventh Sister

        Also the weather in Germany is mostly nice in the summer. It gets dark so early in the fall and the rain can be pretty unrelenting in the fall.

    • Anonymous

      DH is German. We have gone to visit his family for at least two or three weeks every year since he moved here 15 years ago. His niece was born in January. Our kids miss their other cousins desperately. We are not going this year. We will go ASAP once there is a widespread vaccine or a clear effective treatment protocol. DH is particular is very athletic and concerned about reports of lung damage in younger people who recovered.

    • anon

      We have two young kids and our families are a plane ride away, though still in the same country. We’re not planning on seeing them until there’s a vaccine. I’m most concerned with becoming a vector or getting stuck somewhere other than home than with actual risk of disease to us. However, I also don’t want to get sick.

      Having an 80+ parent changes things, though—it’s much more dangerous to potentially bring the illness (can you get a test after your isolation period?) and there’s just not as much time left post-vaccine.

        • Lyssa

          I wouldn’t plan anything in a way that assumes there will be a vaccine next year (or any time in the near- to mid-future). If there is, wonderful, but it’s definitely not something that should be considered likely.

        • Anon

          Yep. Everything I’m reading about vaccine development is not filling me with hope we will have one in widespread use before the end of 2021. There’s also the issue that 40% of Americans surveyed, in one study, said they won’t get the vaccine when one does become available. I think anyone pinning their travel or life-living hopes on the idea that A. we will have a vaccine in less than 24-48 months and B. a critical majority of people will get the vaccine when it’s offered to create protective herd immunity, probably need to re-assess.

          • Anon

            I agree with you about the timeline, but even if not enough people get the vaccine to create herd immunity, any effective vaccine will still have a significant impact on the people who choose to get it. Because of how fast the virus mutates, the flu vaccine is notoriously ineffective (somewhere between 30-50% chance of protecting against disease), but it dramatically decreases your risk of dying if you do get the flu. Given how slowly the novel coronavirus is mutating, there’s hope that the vaccine might be more like the one for measles, which offers something like 97% protection against infection to anyone who gets the full sequence. So even if less than half the country gets the vaccine, the people who get the vaccine will be less likely to get sick, and almost certainly much less likely to die than people who don’t get it. I also think schools and workplaces will require the vaccine, so even people who are skeptical about it will be forced to get it once it’s widely available.
            My big fear with the vaccine is that we’re going to rush through an unproven vaccine and even if the illness/death that comes from that is relatively minor, it will lead to a huge backlash against vaccines in general (especially if any children die), which will lead to the resurgence of measles and lots of other vaccine-preventable diseases :/

      • anon—young kids

        If there’s no vaccine or other change (like very good treatment) in a year or two, we’ll reevaluate.

    • Anon

      I would not do any social international travel during a pandemic, period. There are too many transmission points, too much risk of getting delayed and stuck abroad, and we are in the middle of a pandemic. People are acting like it’s over but it’s very much not.

      • Anon

        +1. I feel like OP has already decided to go, based on the way the post was framed, and is looking for support for that position. She’s getting it, but I would not do social international air travel during a pandemic.

          • Anon

            Only EU citizens for now, the borders are still closed to non-EU citizens although that may change on July 1 (but it’s unclear if American passport holders will be let in immediately given the infection rates here – I would not be surprised if many countries opened first to a lot of Asian countries and Australia/NZ and excluded the Americas).

      • Anonymous

        I mean, the US reported 297 COVID deaths yesterday, the lowest since March 24… we haven’t seen huge spikes from the ongoing riots and protests, I’d go OP!

        • Anonymous

          I would not be so sanguine about the impact of reopening and protests. Santa Clara County just spiked three of the last four days.

        • Anonymous

          Death is a lagging indicator. It often takes a month or more after someone tests positive for them to die, and positive tests are going up on average in the US. Sorry to be morbid, but this is what I have learned living in NYC.

          • Anon

            Death is a lagging indicator, but it’s also true that treatments now are much better than they were. I have family members who are ER/ICU doctors and they say this disease is much more survivable than it was in March, so we may continue to see deaths decline even as infection rates rise. Also, in the spring, a very large percentage of infections were in nursing homes, but now we’re seeing much more infections among 20- and 30-somethings. Since a healthy 20 year old is statistically far, far more likely to survive this than an infirm 80 year old, we could see deaths continue to fall while infections rise if the “right” people are getting infected.

          • Anon

            “Also, in the spring, a very large percentage of infections were in nursing homes, but now we’re seeing much more infections among 20- and 30-somethings. Since a healthy 20 year old is statistically far, far more likely to survive this than an infirm 80 year old, we could see deaths continue to fall while infections rise if the “right” people are getting infected.”

            Yes. Much has been made of the spike of infections in Florida in younger people, but the majority of those infections are apparently asymptomatic. Yes, those people can spread it to others, but a spike in asymptomatic infections in younger, healthier people is much less likely than a spike in symptomatic infections in older, less-healthy people to result in hospitalizations and deaths, unless something about the virus really changes. Also concur, my relatives in healthcare (including one who works in an ICU) are saying that while there isn’t one, one-size-fits-all knockout treatment, they know more about the disease now and treatments are much more effective than they were in March. Sadly, it turns out that in most early cases ventilating people was a mistake (that’s been widely reported in the news) and ventilation probably contributed to high early death rates. The ICU where my relative works is no longer ventilating most people who come in with Covid and low blood oxygen; they’re just giving them supplemental oxygen and putting them prone, and giving anticoagulants. The majority leave the hospital within a few days.

      • Anon

        I’m confused why people here seem to draw the line specifically at international air travel. Going to Germany is far less risky than going to most places in the US right now. I don’t share this view, but I fully understand the position that all non-essential air travel should be delayed until [better treatment/vaccine/lower infection rates]. But I don’t understand why international air travel is any different than domestic air travel, and don’t believe the science supports drawing a distinction between international and domestic flights, especially if the international travel is to a place like German with far fewer active cases than the US. (I realize if you travel internationally there’s a risk of not being able to get back in the country, especially as a non-US citizen, but that risk is solely a risk to OP’s family and is not a threat to the community or public health.)

        • Cat

          Domestic air travel – no fears about (1) getting stuck overseas due to last minute travel bans like there were in March, or (2) falling ill overseas and being unable to get home. We’re traveling to Florida later this summer. If we have to leave in a hurry, we can drive ourselves home.

          • Anon

            Yes, I get that, but those are personal risks that individuals can decide to take for themselves. People here have argued that it’s irresponsible from a public health standpoint to travel internationally right now, which is what I don’t understand. From the standpoint of spreading the virus around and harming others Florida seems MUCH riskier than Germany, especially if you self-isolate for 14 days after arriving in Germany so you’re not going to spread anything you might have picked up on the plane. Also, while I’m not criticizing you for taking your FL trip, unless you take your own vehicle there, I would definitely not count on being able to get home in a hurry. New car rentals were among the first things to shut down, because the car rental companies don’t want their cars getting spread out all over the US (so they allowed people who already had cars to keep them and return them, but put prohibitions on new rentals in place pretty early).

        • Anon

          I agree with that domestic air travel is risky, but OP was asking about international travel so that’s what people are discussing.

    • potato

      I think your fine. Elderly parents are most at risk, of course, but if you’re planning to self isolate beforehand…

    • Anon

      Germany has one of the best healthcare systems in the world so I’d go. I’d take covid in Germany over covid in the US any day.

    • Cat

      we are avid travelers but have decided to hold off on international until 2021 (assuming by that point things have stabilized, even if there is not yet a vaccine).

      While, like you, we’ve been WFH and distancing since March and therefore we ourselves are not likely to be asymptomatic spreaders, the risks of (1) disruptions in borders and frequent flight changes and cancellations, (2) the slight possibility that we get sick while abroad.. and then what?, and (3) destination country imposing quarantine restrictions on visitors that are longer than the planned visit itself… all have us holding off.

    • anon

      From what I have read it’s not entirely clear if the EU (and Germany in particular) is allowing visitors from the US.

      • Equestrian Attorney

        If at least one of them has German citizenships I think they can. That’s the case on my end (family lives in France – I have citizenship so I could technically go).
        OP, I’m facing the same issue and I’m staying put for now, even though I’m really broken up about it. I’m really hoping to make it for the holidays in December or maybe even the fall, but right now it just feels too risky to travel. I know several people who have, though, so ultimately it’s up to you.

      • anon

        on that note, if any of your family are on any kind of visa, I’d be wary of leaving the country at this point. Stephen Miller is working hard on closing the border to any and all immigration.

    • AnonMPH

      I’d say that if you are able to isolate (and maybe get a test after ~10 days) before seeing your parents, and you have contingency plans for what you do if you get sick/travel disrupted while there, I’d go. I’m more cautious about day to day risks but I think if you really put your mind to it and have a long time horizon so isolation is feasible, travel to spend time with relatives is possible right now. And agree that there is no guarantee that will be the case later.

    • Anonymous

      FYI, we flew last week to travel to my FIL’s funeral, and a flight attendant told my husband that Delta is planning to reevaluate and possibly increase their capacity cap on July 1. If you decide to go and can leave before then, you may be better off. In our experience Delta was good about blocking out middle seats and enforcing masks, at least at the time of boarding, but people were sitting immediately in front of and immediately behind us. People take masks off to eat, and a lot of people had them below their nose a good portion of the time. Our flights were domestic, so international routes may be quieter. I found flying very stressful in general, especially with a child who wants to lie on/touch/put his face on every surface.

    • Anonymous

      i think it’s really a denial of reality to go. this is not a necessity – you want to go on vacation and visit family. when you visit, you will be an additional source of exposure for elderly parents! do you plan on not going out there and continuing to isolate? otherwise, everyone you end up being in contact with increases chance of exposure for you, and thus your elderly family. i would also get on a plane ASAP with a vaccine or proven effective treatment with few effects but certainly not now. sure, you will probably be fine if you get it, but even in my mid-30’s group of friends, one person who has gotten it is still on oxygen! a month later!!!! as a 36 year old! she is counted in the “recovered” group.

    • Anon

      I would probably go. I’m not sure what the testing situation is like in Germany – can you get a test without symptoms? If so, I would be inclined to go, self-isolate for maybe 7 days (14 if you want to be extra cautious), get tested and then assuming everyone tests negative, see your family. There have been some news stories lately out of places like Florida that say huge numbers (like 90%+) of younger people testing positive are asymptomatic, so I’m not sure a quarantine alone would make me comfortable enough to visit someone who was 80, because I might have an asymptomatic infection I could pass on. I would want a quarantine followed by a negative test. But if you can do that, it should be fine.
      Re: the preschooler – does your preschool have any quarantine requirements after international travel? Ours does. A lot of people seem to think schools will shut down again relatively quickly in the fall (like September or October), so if you go now, your child may miss a big chunk of what is likely to be a very short window of school being open, especially if you have to quarantine upon your return. Not saying you shouldn’t go, but I would consider this factor as well.

    • Seventh Sister

      In a few days, I’m flying from one major US hub to another major-is US hub to see family. We’ve been strict about hand washing and masks. While we’ve been careful, I’m sure your isolation has been more thorough than our isolation. Honestly, if I was sure I’d be able to get in and out of Germany this summer, I’d feel safer going there than I feel traveling within the US. The health care system is better and they don’t seem to have large groups of people think a mask is an imposition on FREEEDOMMM!!!!!

      • Seventh Sister

        Also, what’s testing like where you are? Our city has been doing drive-up COVID tests (cheek swab) for free to anyone who wants one. My husband and I both did that last week and tested negative. While I know that I could still have gotten infected after that test, it was reassuring anyway.

      • Ness

        That,
        the problem is that right now EU (and Germany) is not allowing people from USA and it is unclear that this would change if the USA situation does not improve.

        • Anon

          It’s all based on nationality. It doesn’t matter where OP is living. If she’s a German national she can go back (which is sort of illogical to me because it’s your residence not your nationality that determines your level of exposure – but that’s how it is).

          • Ness

            No, if you live there or work there you are allowed to return too. It has been like that during the whole lockdown, the problem was to get a flight.

  3. The Ordinary

    I’m trying to add some things to my skincare routine and read a lot about The Ordinary. I like that you can pick the ingredients for whatever your needs are, but as a somewhat newbie I am having a hard time picking a starter routine.

    I’m 38, my biggest concerns are large pores, blackheads, oily T-zone, while at the same time I have dry and sensitive skin, and respond well to extremely moisturizing masks. I’m currently using sunscreen and oil-free moisturizers as well as gentle cleansers. Usually I avoid fragrances, plant oils (allergies) and too much alcohol in skin care.
    I’m not looking for anti-ageing ingredients per se, even though I guess it wouldn’t hurt? If I were to try something from The Ordinary, where should I start?

    • Anon

      You can email Deciem, describe your skin, your concerns, and your interest in the Ordinary products, and they will respond with a recommended regime of Ordinary products. I love the products and the pricing is great.

      • Airplane.

        Yes, also Deciem has a guide where you can look for yourself for whether your issues are hyperpigmentation, general aging, wrinkles, skin congestion (blackheads/whiteheads), texture irregularities, etc. I would say the acids (azelaic or lactic) are good for blackheads. Marula oil for your dry skin. Also, if you have all of these issues talk to a dermatologist for some Rx strength fixes.

    • Anon

      I haven’t tried The Ordinary BUT The Inkey List at Sephora is about the same price point. Currently using their hyaluronic acid serum and glycolic acid toner and am enjoying them. Not sure why I went with them vs. The Ordinary but there had to have been a reason? Also if I may to you and everyone else in the world, BUY A FACE STEAMER. I bought one halfway through quarantine since I get facial pretty regularly. It has truly been the best $38 I’ve ever spent. The first time I put an enzyme mask on after steaming my face, I was shocked by how different if felt. Opening up pores with a warm wash cloth or over a pot of simmering water just isn’t the same anymore. A friend of mine bought one of those pore sucker things off Amazon (like a knock off of what Sephora uses for the Perk Facials) and she loves. That’s my next purchase. OP, it may be worth it to get a steamer and pore sucker to use in conjunction with an acid for your black heads. For around $90 for the two machines, it’s a worthwhile investment in selfcare.

    • anon

      I didn’t like the moisturizers, so main thing I use the Ordinary for are the serums. For the dry/sensitive skin you should check out the hylaronic acid. It’s just a nice hydration booster you can put under any moisturizer. Retinol can help with pores and black/heads, and the ordinary has some gentler one (i liked with the granactive 2% emulsion). The thing to keep in mind with these individual product lines is, if you buy 3 or 4 different serums and you are cocktailing them, you are probably pretty close in price to some other good serums.

    • Skincare Junkie

      I would recommend the Granactive Retinoid 2% Emulsion as a night serum, Niacinamide + Zinc as a day serum. The Buffet + Copper peptides serum is also great, but prioritize the other two first. I haven’t used their moisturizer so I can’t comment on that but I’d recommend Cerave PM Moisturizing Lotion for day and night under your SPF (it’s called “PM” just because it doesn’t have SPF in it).

    • Lana Del Raygun

      Whenever someone says “oily” and “dry” in the same sentence I bet their skin is dehydrated, so I recommend the hyaluronic acid (especially with a hydrating toner like Dr Thayer’s). I’ve also had success cutting down on blackheads with their salicylic acid serum, although they’re reformulating it right now so you may not be able to find it.

    • Anon

      Stuff that works for me from the ordinary- similar skin:

      Toner (glycolic acid toner every 3rd day)
      Acid- lactic acid (if not using toner)
      Hyalauranic acid
      Squalane oil after HA sets

      The glycolic acid is pretty strong. You may have to work up to that. I have skin that gets sensitive too, and the lactic acid at night with oil over it works. You can get the gentle exfoliation but not get too dry.

    • Anon

      I’m a similar age and almost exactly same skin profile. I’ve tried a few of The Ordinary’s products and of the ones I’ve tried, liked the Marina Hyaluronics and the Niacinamide & Zinc the best (this one I saw a visible difference almost immediately – brighter skin). The Vitamin C 23% & HA spheres gave me skin discoloration in an arm spot test, so I would avoid. I’ve also tried the lactic acid, salicylic acid, and the amino acids & b5. Those were all kind of pointless, but I could see the amino being good in the winter for dry skin.

  4. Anon

    I was thinking of taking a class in Python for data analytics to enhance my resume. Is this something that is used on a basic level in workplaces, or is it mainly for those who are really serious programmers looking for programming jobs?

    • Anon

      This may be colored by the fact that I’m about halfway through a 2nd bachelors in computer science and still don’t feel like I can do much useful with it, but I DEFINITELY felt that way after taking my first programming course. I could stumble around a bit and write some really basic code, but all it was useful for was getting ready for the next class.
      I feel like the class work I did in R was much more useable in a real-world sense, in that if I was presented with a dataset, I could at least apply a few methods to it and come out with something useful.

      • NOLA

        That’s really interesting! I have done some very rudimentary work with my freshman class on identifying inflammatory language in news articles, depending on bias. I spoke with a Dutch professor about this work and she was telling me that her class (an honors seminar) worked with a class in Italy who were doing rudimentary R coding for the same kind of analysis. I have been thinking about having a colleague who works with code come in and do an exercise with my class. I thought it would be fun for them to demystify coding and to put it to use on something that could be of immediate value to them. What I used in class was a Southern Poverty Law worksheet, but I am thinking about developing something more robust. I’m so glad I’m reminded of this! I was recently asked to teach it again this fall (after initially saying no due to concerns about my workload) and I will be developing it as a hyflex course, so lots to do!

    • Anonymous

      As a hiring manager, I am looking for coursework in statistics and quantitative methods. Python is just a tool for doing the analysis. A “Python for data analytics course” is useful for someone who already knows the methods and just wants to learn how to do the work in Python, but I’d never hire someone to do data analysis who didn’t have the underlying academic background.

    • Anonymous

      Taking a class “to enhance your resume” is virtually worthless, especially if you don’t even understand what the class teaches and how you would use those skills. Hiring managers are looking for people who can demonstrate that they have actually applied the skills in real life.

    • Cb

      Do it! I did a python bootcamp last year focused on qualitative research and I think just in terms of an intellectual exercise, it was super interesting.

      • Anonymous

        Cb, you have a degree in your field and have the underyling qualitative research skills, so it makes sense for you to learn a new tool to implement the research methods you already know. This poster is apparently proposing to take a Python course without having a background in data analysis. That is a whole different situation.

    • NYNY

      I have a team of internal process improvement consultants in a hospital, and several of them have learned to use python to compile data quickly from some of less of our data-friendly systems. They are not programmers, nor do they want to be. It’s a really great tool!

        • NYNY

          It’s a really diverse group. All have bachelors degrees (with a wide variety of majors), some have masters degrees in public health or business, and most have worked in healthcare revenue cycle. I hire for curiosity and ability to learn. We have to extract data from multiple hospital systems to build performance metrics, and they all tend to look for a better way to do things, so they’re building data viz skills in Tableau and data manipulation skills with Python & R.

          I love my team!

    • Anon

      My background is in economics, with some business and a little computer science thrown in. I wanted to take the Python class to brush up on my algorithm writing and learn a newer programming language. I was wondering if I could go into basic data analysis for maybe a gov’t job (or maybe healthcare if I get an MS) or something. I realize the heavy stuff is probably being outsourced and there is a long learning curve. Yeah, I guess I’m desperate.

      • Curious

        This seems like a great reason to learn it! Focus on courses that teach numpy and pandas and make sure you really grok the numpy data structures and you’ll be amazed what you can do fast!

      • Curious

        Also, econ and a bit of comp sci are the perfect backgrounds for this type of work. You need to understand what a t test does and doesn’t tell you, how long it takes to get power in an experiment, and how to tease out causality vs correlation. Any good economics program will have given you the background to do that or learn to do it fast.

      • AnonATL

        I do data analysis for a living with a similar background, and Python, R, and SQL are all pretty common languages people ask about.
        If you want some dirt cheap classes just to get started, look into Udemy. They have some intro courses that go on sale all the time. Do not pay full price on there.

      • dg

        Ooh then it totally makes sense to take it, it’ll be very helpful, put it to use with some practice projects as soon as possible, good luck!

    • Anon

      Generally I find that understanding data analysis is way more important than coding. I get back projects from consultants or other teams which are completely nonsensical because whomever was coding had no understanding of what the numbers themselves actually mean. I think becoming an Excel wizard is a much more worthy endeavor.

        • Anon

          Honestly unfortunately not, I was just adept at excel prior to school and then when I was taking my plethora of qualitative, quantitative, epistemology classes etc I was able to really master the software.

        • Anon

          Become an entry level actuary. Excel is our first language, spoken English (in US) a very distant second.

          • Anonymous

            Ha! My husband is a software developer who works with actuaries. Software developers are not known for their communication skills. He says the actuaries are terrible communicators.

    • dg

      I think that if you’re interested in getting into data analytics and aren’t in the field yet, a class like this won’t add enough. It would add to your resume if you had the data analysis skills and wanted another tool.

      The other thing is that if you were in a position like the hospital process improvement people in another comment, then knowing Python would likely be a plus

    • Anon

      I took an intro programming class taught in Python at a well-regarded but not super selective four year university. I worked really hard (I spent 40+ hours/week on the class the weeks that projects were due) and got an A+ and I feel like I don’t know how to use Python for anything useful. Intro programming just gives you the fundamental concepts to go on and learn more computer science, I don’t think it’s very applicable to the real world.

  5. Anon

    Random home decor question. Is there such a thing as a brightly colored patio umbrella that doesn’t fade? Is there a particular brand or material I should be looking for? I’ve read tons of reviews but almost every product seems to have some reviews saying the color faded in less than one season.

    • Anonymous

      Sunbrella fabric is the gold standard in outdoor fabrics. I know Ballard Designs’ patio collection is made with Sunbrella – I’m sure there are many others.

    • Anonymous

      We had a striped one from Crate and Barrel that lasted a decade. We would have gone with another but the colors that year were not quite what we wanted.

    • AnonATL

      I think they are pretty regional and not sure what shipping policy is, but I got one at the At Home store a couple years ago. It is cheap and has held up well with minimal fading. I know they have a website you can shop from as well.

    • Lana Del Raygun

      Anecdotally, I find that red/pink things fade more than other colors. I have no idea why.

      • anon

        Red is a difficult color in general because variations often look bad together (which is why you can wear an outfit that’s multiple shades of blue and it’s fine, but multiple shades of red look weird).

        If you want colors that will look better/be less obviously faded, look at colors used in pueblo and southwest architecture. Dusty blues, turquoise, dusty rose, tans, golden yellows, and natural as opposed to bright or dark greens wear well even in intensely sunny places. Black, anything neon, bright red, and navy look bad quickly.

  6. Wannabe Compliance Attorney

    I’m a litigator looking for a career pivot and have come across a job posting for a compliance attorney position that looks really interesting. Anyone here make a similar move and willing to share the differences/similarities/likes/dislikes? I’m also curious what type of background is desired for these roles.

    • Anon

      Personally, I would avoid compliance work like the plague. It is heavy on regulations and requires a desire to dig in to some very dry topics. It seems like the antithesis of a litigator personality choice, but maybe that could work for OP if litigation is a bad fit, resulting in the desire to change practice areas.

      • Cat

        Very hearty +1 to this. If what you dislike about litigation is the adversarial part or public speaking, but you love researching the law and digging into policy, then compliance could be a good fit. However, because the job is even more risk averse than legal is, compliance is often seen as a necessary evil – sort of like HR, the less you need to interact with them the better!

        • Anonymous

          +1. IANAL but compliance reports into me. It’s full of lawyers people try everything to NOT have to deal with ;). They are lovely people but just like contracts, it’s all red tape.

          • CountC

            This makes me chuckle because I am a lawyer who loves both the contract and compliance work (and who would have rather quit than do any lit work)!!

  7. Anon for this

    Has anyone/is anyone considering resuming routine doctor appointments (in a hotspot)? I have a regular psychiatrist appointment where I just check in & get a refill. Now they’re making noises about reopening. I feel like there’s nothing that can’t be done by telephone/telemedicine (no bloodwork and usually no physical exams), so thinking of switching to a doctor that offers telemedicine all the time (if that’s a thing that’s available). Would it be possible to do that without ever going in? I don’t want to switch, but on the other hand, I can stay home during a pandemic so why not do that?

    Added wrinkle is that most/all office staff at current doctor are not fluent in English (and I only speak English) and they are only barely able to schedule appointments, so I can’t ask questions or talk to them about anything beyond that. They’re going to call me the day before my next appointment and let me know if I need to come in or to expect a phone visit. Completely refused to do anything else, like tell me their precautions or give me more notice so I can decide if I’m comfortable going in.

    • Cat

      I’m going. Cases are way down in my area (unlike other areas of the country) so for things like going to the dentist or derm, I want to go now in case they trend upward in the fall.

      • Anonymous

        Same here. It seems safer to go now than to wait. But I’m still asking for telemedicine when possible.

      • anne-on

        +1 – have not gone to the dentist, but going to the derm/neurologist/ob-gyn now to get my yearly checks now before the fall when school goes back.

      • Anon

        Yep, I’d call around for a new doctor. I don’t think there’s a valid reason to require in person appointments for this, they’re not accommodating, and it sounds like there could be some communication issues. In addition, I think going to an in person appointment could be very stressful and obviously not good for your mental health.

    • Anonymous

      I am but would not necessarily for something like this that could easily be done via video conference or phone. I would do a phone visit and ask the Dr herself what their plans are going forward. Finding a psychiatrist is really hard where I am though.

    • Anonymous

      I’d find a new doctor. Even pre-COVID, I was pretty grumpy about physically going to the doctor when I just need a rx refill. Why do I have to go in, expose myself to sick people in the waiting room, and wait around for you for 20+ minutes because you’re always running behind, when you’re only going to spend 5 minutes with me? They said for years that it can’t be done remotely – well now COVID has shown that’s a lie. I really hope more people push back on in person visits that can be done over the phone.

    • Sunny

      I got a physical earlier this month. In my case, it specifically did need to be a physical – I needed my Nexplanon implant switched out. They were sanitizing everything even more than usual, and the employees were taking rapid Covid tests every morning. They’d also pared down the number of employees in the office on any particular day. This meant a longer wait to see my usual doctor, but fewer infection vectors.

      My psychiatrist and my therapist, who don’t need to make physical contact with me, are still using video chat – I actually have a psychiatrist appointment later today. I live in Santa Clara County, which is a major hotspot, and my psychiatrist has a small child. I’m not sure if she’ll be reopening for in-person appointments this year. My therapist lives in another state (long story), which actually has reopened, but their cases are skyrocketing and she’s in a high-risk group. She’s still doing all appointments over video.

    • Carrie

      I would try to do the next visit from home, and ask the doctor directly. Emphasize your preferences to continue telehealth. The only way a doc will continue changing to offer this long term is if the patients tell them they want it!

      I think telehealth is amazing, and while I haven’t been using it, a family member has been and it has made things much easier.

      The downside is that of course the doctor cannot examine you in person. But for a psychiatry visit, this may be less necessary, depending on your diagnosis, especially if you can do a video call occasionally.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks everyone. I’ll push for telehealth & glad that sounds reasonable. I’ll try having a conversation with the dr first (from home) but also be prepared to switch. I’ve also never done telehealth before, so it’s good to hear you’re having some good experiences with it.

  8. Anon

    talk to me about allbirds. i’m thinking of getting a pair for my bday. which style do people like/dislike? any other thoguhts?

    • anon

      I have the wool runners and I hate them. They have zero support to keep your feet in place so I’m either gripping the soles with my toes (hello cramps) or my feet slide forward (risk of toes poking through the fabric with enough wear). I wore them twice before banishing them to the back of my closet.

    • AnonATL

      I have had the wool runners for about 3 years now and wear them a lot for travel. Loved them so much that I bought the tree loungers.
      Order a size up, but they have super easy exchange policy if you get the wrong size.
      They wash really well. I wouldn’t say the wool insole is as anti-stink as a lot of people claim, but the easy washing makes up for it. I’ve only had a problem with the loungers that I wear sock-less.
      There’s something a little funny about the shape of the sole of the runners that took me a while to get used to. They didn’t hurt, but there’s this rise on the outer heel that didn’t hit my foot quite right at first. The loungers don’t have this problem. They are flat like traditional slip ons.
      I’m a big fan with 2 pairs, and my husband has a pair that he loves as well.

    • Anon

      I like mine (Wool runners) but I don’t love them. Like that they’re washable and trendy so that when I want to wear casual sneakers I don’t feel like a schlub.

      People act like they’re the holy grail sneakers, and I don’t think they are. People love how lightweight they are but I have other casual wear sneakers that are lighter.

    • ollie

      I have the tree skippers and like them for a casual out-and-about shoe with shorts or jeans. I’ve been eyeing the running shoes too but I doubt that I’d actually use them for working out.

    • Anon

      They’re OK but not really worth the money. I agree with the other posters that they are not the holy grail that the marketing portrays them as. They have no arch support and you can’t wear them for long days unless you don’t mind your feet aching.

      • anon a mouse

        I have the wool loungers and they are essentially very overpriced winter slippers. They do keep my feet warm. They have zero arch support. I also found that the wool stretched a good bit, so they are way too loose now (ergo: slippers). I won’t buy from the company again.

    • AnonMPH

      I got really excited about them before a recent trip and ordered several pairs to try. Some felt moderately comfortable but as soon as I wore them outside I realized my feet were slipping around both with and without socks. For me at least, the marketing hype of these being the holy grail of travel/lounge shoes did not live up to reality. I was sad about it but sent them all back.

    • The original Scarlett

      Wow, voice of dissent – for me they are holy grail sneakers. I prefer the wool runners, find them TTS, and I don’t get blisters and can walk for miles and days in them in a way I’ve never been able to in other sneakers.

    • Anom

      I like them a lot. My feet are on the narrow side and get sore easily in super flat casual sneakers. I have a pair of the wool runners and a pair of the tree runners. In my view the support is pretty decent for a casual sneaker. My other go-to are Keds. I was never able to wear superga or converse or vans because they were too flat and too wide. I do wish they came in half sizes.

    • Quail

      I have a pair of wool runners and the ballet flats. Runners fit my feet funny and I’m never sure how/with what to wear them over my other sneakers/flats, so they stay in the closet. LOVE the ballet flats though and wish I had not left them in my office shoe hoard (pandemic problems, lol).

    • Airplane.

      I’ve never understand why you’d pay $$ for WOOL sneakers. It has never made sense to me to make sneakers out of wool. I’ve always bought nikes or the like from Nordstrom rack that work great for anything you’d want to wear Allbirds for. Hard pass.

    • Anonymous

      I have the wool loungers and LOVE them. They are like slippers that are acceptable to wear outside the house. Life is too short for uncomfortable shoes so now I basically transition from Birkenstocks for summer, Allbird loungers for fall/spring, UGGs for winter (with some M.Gemi shoes thrown in for when I have to be fancy).

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I like them a lot. I have a pair of wool runners and a pair of their treated, water resistant wool runners. I like the regular ones better. The water resistant ones are thicker and tighter and irritate me a lot. The wool runners I find to be incredibly comfortable. They’re not for running, ironically, but they’re great for walking the dog, running errands, etc.

      I tried the tree skippers last summer and they were so tight on top of my foot that I returned them.

    • Pink

      I was gifted the tree skippers and they’re now my go-to casual shoe (replacing Nikes running shoes and Sperry boat shoes). I wore them every day for 12 weeks while WFH, and almost every day on the weekends. I love that they’re washable. I wear smartwool liners with them and that seems to extend the time I can wear them between washes (weeks). I wear a size 6.5 in every shoe and wear a size 8 in Allbirds. I don’t need a lot of arch support but YMMV.

    • Anonymous

      i have the wool allbirds and i really love them for every day use. i agree that there’s no arch support so i wouldn’t wear them like hiking or running or something, but for walking around the city in my normal week they’re super comfy. i never wear them with socks, and i do wash them every now and then. i have them in the lavender color

    • Anon

      I have Vessis, which are like a waterproof version of Allbirds (and Allbirds may have their own waterproof version now, unsure). Agree that my foot slipping around is a bit annoying, but I find them very comfortable for long days of walking the waterproof feature is hugely helpful for only packing one pair of casual shoes for travel.

    • CHL

      I have the wool runners that I bought off Poshmark. That was about the $$ I was willing to invest and they have been good but not holy grail.

    • Of Counsel

      I have three pairs (one wool and two of the bamboo). I love all of them and have not had the issue others report of my feet sliding around. They are definitely my go-to shoe since I do not love wearing socks and they wash so well. I do find that the bamboo does not wear as well as the wool. Also, the skimmers are super comfy but definitely read casual.

      But everyone’s foot is different. I suggest you buy and pair and try them on. Their return policy is pretty generous.

  9. Anon

    I paid for a 10-pack of lessons for a hobby of mine and attended six of them before the pandemic hit. I’ve since requested a refund for the remaining lessons since I won’t be able to go back due to being high risk, but I wanted to make a gesture to support small business and asked for a 50% refund so they could keep the other 50%. I haven’t heard back from the instructor, who appears to be ghosting me since I noticed I was apparently removed from the mass email announcing the weekly lesson schedule. She had previously indicated that refunds for health reasons were allowable. What’s my next step here? I’ve already followed up twice, both times copying the owner of the business. The amount of the remaining lessons is $340 (and I asked for just half back), so not nothing but not worth going to, say, small claims court over. Is filing a complaint with the BBB a thing?

    • anon

      If you really wanted to support small business, you would not be threatening small claims court or BBB complaints.

      • Anon

        So your answer is to let them completely ghost me and steal my money? I made the offer to take a 50% refund right from the start and I told them it still stands in follow up email #3. What’s your suggestion then?

        • anon

          Yes, I would let them keep the money. It’s the same reason I opted not to cancel or suspend my gym membership back in March.

          • Anon

            I would have considered letting them keep the money if they responded with a request for it, but it’s a minor financial hardship for me and I also don’t take well to being ghosted. To each their own.

        • Anonymous

          Go right ahead and fight to the death over this but it’s $150. Get over it

          • Anon

            I can’t fathom how anyone on a board for overachievers doesn’t have $150 to spare, especially if you are participating in a hobby that’s $85/session.

          • Anon

            If your financial position hasn’t changed since the pandemic started, consider yourself lucky.

          • Anon

            “I can’t fathom how anyone on a board for overachievers doesn’t have $150 to spare, especially if you are participating in a hobby that’s $85/session.”

            Our HHI is $215k, which is low for this board but puts us firmly in the top 2% for our area. Even at $215k HHI I would try to get back the $150 if I could. If $150 is pocket change to you, congratulations. You’re either exceptionally wealthy or maybe just bad with money management. Either way, don’t assume your situation is everyone’s situation. You can be an “overachiever” and still not want to eat an expense that represents (for some) a week’s worth of groceries or a utility payment.

          • anon

            I don’t know how to say this and not sound snarky, but if you can’t fathom it, you need to fathom a little harder. These people exist, and they exist on this board.

          • Anon

            High-achieving does not equate to high-earning…that’s one of my biggest pet peeves about this s1te. Also my husband and I earn about $160k and while we consider ourselves pretty high-earning (I think our incomes put us around 95th percentile in household earnings), $150 is absolutely a lot of money to us.

          • Monday

            +1 anon at 12:03. I’m a high achieving member of the precarious middle class, and $150 is a significant amount for me and always will be. By the way, if anyone knows of a similar discussion forum where the average income is lower, I’m interested.

          • Anon

            This is appalling. You don’t know someone’s financial circumstances. They may make a lot of money and have student debt, or a child with special needs or be supporting older family members. Get off your high horse! Her money is her money, not yours!

          • anon

            Lol the outrage over $150 is absurd — especially on a site where the header image is a $1,000 skirt! Call it a charitable donation and be done with it. Geez.

          • Anon

            Well, it’s on sale for $600 ;) But seriously, you’re missing the point – made repeatedly by many different posters – that not everyone here is wealthy enough to not miss $150. The clothing picks here are irrelevant -it’s fun fantasy, just like when you admire a celebrity or TV character’s clothing. Many of us reading here would never buy in the price range of most of the featured items. Quite honestly, I’m not sure I would buy a $1,000 skirt even if I suddenly inherited $100 million dollars. It’s not about being able to “afford it,” it just seems incredibly wasteful to me to spend that much on a skirt. But I still like looking at pretty clothes!

          • Anon

            “Lol the outrage over $150 is absurd — especially on a site where the header image is a $1,000 skirt! Call it a charitable donation and be done with it. Geez.”

            I have never, and will never, buy a $1,000 piece of clothing regardless of how much money I make. I am just not wired to do something like that; I grew up lower-middle-class and money was tight. Spending more on a skirt than my parents spend on their mortgage payment is not a thing for me. As another poster said, especially on Mondays, the clothes are mostly fantastical/aspirational. If I like the look of something posted on Splurge Monday, I figure out how to get a similar garment at 20% or less of the price.

            I’m going to go back to what I said earlier about money management: from experience, I know people who can casually toss away $150 and not worry about it, or buy $1,000 skirts are not necessarily rich; they just spend like they are. As a consultant I have seen many business owners who rock the brand-new Lexus, the Rolex, the vacation to Fiji, the designer bag, etc. and have to perpetually keep their phone on silent because they get so many collection calls. Or have so little cash on hand that a $1,500 unexpected expense would be a problem. Or have called me because their free-spending ways have caught up to them and they’re about to not be able to make payroll for their employees. Anyone here who is bragging about not having to worry about losing $150 needs to read The Millionaire Next Door. It may change your perspective considerably.

          • anon

            Thanks for the book rec — I’ll ask my butler to order it right away.

            Jokes aside, I genuinely don’t see this as throwing away money if it’s benefiting a small business that is probably suffering.

      • Anon

        This is uncalled for. She is entitled to her entire $340 back, and is willing to take $170 to support the business. That does not mean that she should be content with $0 and being ghosted.

        Life lesson: everyone has limits, even people who are willing to sacrifice without being asked for the good of other people. Take the compromise that is offered instead of jerking other people around.

        • Anonymous

          She might be or she might not be, if there was a contract or any other terms associated with buying the pack up front, then that’s what would provide her remedy.

          Can you call the person and ask about it vs. emailing? Without trying at least one more time, I wouldn’t be so sure they are intentionally ghosting you.

        • Anon

          How are you so sure she’s entitled to it? It may have been a nonrefundable package.

          • Anon

            No, it wasn’t. As I said in my post, the policy is that the package is refundable for health reasons.

          • anon

            Have you tried emailing them a doctor’s note? I can’t blame them for not taking you at your word considering how many people are probably trying to use that as an excuse.

    • Anonymous

      I think that you weakened your position by asking for a 50% refund. Either you want a refund, or you don’t really care and are going to just let it slide.

    • Anonymous

      Can you speak to the office (or the person who most likely manages the money) directly by phone and ask when you can expect the refund? And try to get a sense of what’s happening. And you might be making it more difficult to process by requesting something other than their standard refund, even though it’s generous of you.

      Another idea, can you donate your last lessons to someone else/payoff someone else’s bill?

      As a last option, can you dispute your credit card charge?

    • Anonymous

      If the business is open I would try to call. Sometimes speaking to a manager solves problems that are ignored by email

      • anon

        I’m very familiar with a small business that is trying to do right by everyone and give full refunds. I’d really like to believe that it wouldn’t miss emails like this, but I could see it potentially happening. Please call in a spirit of “you may have not received my emails” and see if you can work something out.

    • What I would do

      Contest it with your credit card company if you used your credit card to pay.

    • Anonymous

      Contest it with your credit card company if you used your credit card to pay.

    • Anon

      I don’t see why you’re getting so much heat. You work hard for your money; it’s yours. You have no obligation to give them any of it yet you offered. The business is wrong not to have responded with an appreciative or at least effective answer. You have every right to ask for all of it back, especially if they aren’t even gracious about your offer (bare minimum). Many small businesses are in a tough spot but that should be a demand on your hard-earned money. Your first obligation is to yourself here.

    • Anon

      I’d reach out again. Try calling and posting on their social media accounts. I wouldn’t be upset about the money. It’s about their lack of communication.

    • Anon

      I’ve had a terrible time getting refunds I was owed due to recent events, and have had to end up disputing about a dozen charges with my credit card company. My credit card company (Chase) is phenomenal, and refunds me immediately while they sort it out with the business. If you paid by credit card, I would start there.

  10. Anon

    Any success stories about becoming a morning person while battling depression? I have never been a morning person, but with depression the last couple of years, it’s even worse. I have a really hard time getting out of bed. I’m fully WFH right now and I have found myself in a very bad routine of staying in bed far later than I should.

    • Anonymous

      Programmable coffee maker. Seriously. It is so much easier to get out of bed at a set time if there is hot coffee waiting for you. Having to make your own coffee in the morning, even with a Keurig, can just be too much work. Allow yourself 1/2 hour or so to relax and drink your coffee, and then you will find it much easier to get moving.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve always had success starting small. For a while the only day I tried to be a morning person was Friday and on Fridays I used the extra time to go and get coffee and a pastry for breakfast.

      • Anonymous

        This is a good suggestion, and Friday’s are a good start because the mindset is better on a Friday than any other day of the week.

    • Struggle Bus

      I have had some success when I started signing up for morning workout classes. Understand that’s not an option in most locations but maybe signing up for a morning workout zoom class?

      • Struggle Bus

        Also have had success setting absolutely tiny goals. Like wake up one minute earlier each day and track it on a print out calendar (which gives my type A brain some motivation to fill out each day).

    • Anon

      Easy breakfast and easy coffee, immediately. At least with me, hypoglycemia from the long stretch since dinner makes mornings hard (and makes depression a lot worse), and cold brew or Nespresso plus something like a Greek yogurt does wonders.

      • Anonymous

        Having tea or even just an extra glass of water at night makes a huuuge difference in how I feel in the morning

    • same boat

      I was at a job I hated right after college and was in this position (not WFH though). What helped though is having a series of things I liked to do in the morning, like a favorite coffee/tea and taking some time to read and drink tea in solace. You wake up for a fun thing, not work. I also stopped going on my phone first thing in the morning, and instead read from a notebook of poems I kept. Some of the things I wrote down were the poem Invictus and Marcus Aurelius quotes – that was just what worked for me.

      I also wrote down (and still write down) every single little thing I had to do in the morning, and just followed it. Literally wake up – get out of bed – brush teeth – change clothes – make bed – do hair – do make up – have coffee – etc

      Putting on makeup actually helped because it is something I like to do and added some creativity to my morning.

      Also, you need to get enough sleep, a full 8 – 10 hours, for this to work best.

    • Anonymous

      No advice really but I am the same way, I’ve been struggling with this for years and it’s sooo bad currently. I just bought canned coldbrew coffee from Costco over the weekend to help battle it, because 90% of the time getting up and turning on the Keurig is just too much (pathetic I know).

    • Sunny

      In order from most to least serious:

      Give yourself something to do in the morning. If there’s another person involved, even better. I’m going running with one of my housemates most mornings at 7. If I don’t go, I have to tell him I’m not going – he doesn’t ask for reasons or anything, but I have to talk to him. It doesn’t have to be running. Having coffee with a friend over Zoom would work just as well.

      Get a really obnoxious alarm, and keep your alarm device far enough from your bed that you have to walk to turn it off. I’m not sure where I got my current alarm, but it sounds like an air raid siren. And my phone is on the other side of my bedroom, so I have to actually get up to make it stop.

      Wellbutrin. I’ve been trying it for a couple weeks, and I’ve been waking up very consistently at 6 AM. (It’s not my primary antidepressant; it’s treating some other issues.) I get really sleepy around 3 PM, but I’m awake at 6 AM consistently. I don’t think it’s a common effect, but it’s not unheard of.

    • Coach Laura

      I have the same problem. One of those sunrise simulator alarm clocks work for me, and they may also help with the depression. I have the Phillips one that was posted here in the last six months. Then I have breakfast that I love planned – Trader Joe pancakes, fruit, bagel with lox. Tea is my choice but sometimes pre-pandemic I’d stop and get hot chocolate with whipped cream but you could get ingredients ahead of time and reheat at home.

    • Anon

      I don’t mean this to sound flippant, but go to bed earlier. You can’t wake up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed at any hour if you’re not getting enough sleep. So step one is to adjust your bedtime.

      • Sloan Sabbith

        In my experience, sleep hygiene helps lots of stuff but doesn’t solve this very specific issue. I could get 10 hours of sleep and when I’m depressed, I’ll still have an impossible time getting out of bed.

        I have Alarmy on my phone (iPhone) and set it so that I have to scan a barcode of something in my kitchen or, when it’s particularly bad, my shampoo, so I’m already in the bathroom and can get into the shower. Usually once I can get that far (and don’t straight up delete the app instead of doing it) I’m OK. Sometimes I turn it off and go back to sleep.

  11. Anon

    I love Athleta / title 9 clothing but it is out of my price range. Can anyone recommend brands for sporty / athletic “regular” clothes? Looking for both athletic inspired weekend wear and work clothes (Casual end of business casual) options and nicer athleisure, not athletic clothes.

    • Anon

      REI has a house brand now that I like, but Kühl fits me better (also buy at REI).

    • Anonymous

      I have a hard time with Athleta prices but have picked up a few pieces on Poshmark.

    • The Lone Ranger

      Not sure if I’m hitting the look you want, but the sale sections at Columbia.com and REI.com? Sierra.com?

    • pugsnbourbon

      Two of the athletic lines at Target are good value for the money: All In Motion and JoyLab.

      There’s also Sierra Trading Post – it’s like TJMaxx but for outdoor/athletic gear. There’s a good selection of clothing from big-name athletic brands (Adidas, Champion, Puma, UnderArmour, etc) and casual outdoor brands (Eddie Bauer, Columbia, Merrell, Marmot). I’m placing an order for a couple UPF shirts soon. Returns are a PITA though.

    • Anonia

      Shop their sales, and know what you need for each season. The winter stuff will be on deep sale at the summer sale at Athleta. I don’t buy full price often, but for the most part the clothes have worn like iron, so the higher price can be worth it. I don’t have much title nine, but have really like what I have. Check TJ maxx too, they have some similar stuff. Eddie Bauer and North Face are options too.

    • anon

      I would try to buy during sales rather than replicating with other stuff. IMO, both Athleta and Title 9 have a distinct look and vibe that’s hard to find in other brands. That said, I have noticed a few Old Navy knockoffs of Athleta styles. Not sure the quality or fit is quite the same but perhaps worth a shot.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      Target. I got a great pair of joggers from their Prologue brand and a great, great skort from all in motion.

    • rosie

      Sierra Trading Post, Backcountry dot com, REI garage. I’m also into Old Navy right now, especially their breathable line — just got a pair of joggers and shorts that are perfect for what I wanted (same as what you’re describing). Sometimes Costco has nice athleisure options as well.

    • Lobbyist

      Have you tried ThredUP? used clothes you can search by brand, size, and condition. I like it, have gotten good stuff there.

  12. Anon

    My coffee machine died over the weekend, so I’m looking for a new one. I don’t need anything super fancy – it just needs to be reliable and make good, strong coffee. I’ll spend up to $200. What coffee machine do you love? The one that died was a $50 Mr. Coffee that lasted 6ish months, so I’d like to spend more to get a better one that lasts longer.

    • Anon

      When my coffee maker died I replaced it with an electric kettle and a very basic pour over (it is actually made for camping), it’s my new favorite way to make coffee

      • Anon

        This is what I’ve been doing since my coffee maker died. I have a simple kitchen scale (I think it cost $10) that makes it very easy to get the measurements right.

        I definitely notice when coffee makers brew at the wrong temperature, and most of the SCA certified coffee makers make more coffee than I would drink on a daily basis. I do have a sale alert set up for the 5 cup Bonavita though.

    • Anon

      If you only want one cup at a time, an Aeropress. I got one to replace my drip coffee maker when it broke and have been using it for like 10 years now.

    • Anon

      It’s slightly more than your budget, but we bought a Technivorm Moccamaster on Amazon for $250 (on sale) and let me tell you, those coffeemakers are everything people say they are and more. I hated drip coffee before we got the Moccamaster; to me it just wasn’t worth it. It was always either too weak, or too bitter, or just not great. The Moccamaster makes coffee that tastes more like a really good pour-over coffee; minimal bitterness and it’s easy to make the coffee as strong as you want it to be. We got a reusable gold filter instead of using paper filters (have replaced it once). I was skeptical because my entire life, my family had just had basic Mr. Coffee coffeemakers (we got four of them for our wedding), but this thing is pretty great and has lasted over two years with just periodic cleanings. The extra brewed coffee (if we have any left over) is great cold. One thing – not all models have an “auto-off” feature and I think that’s important as I never remember to turn the pot off (ours does have it). I am not sure if any of the lower-priced models have an “auto-on.” They come in different sizes including a smaller version if you are the only coffee drinker in the house. People’s mileage varies on things like this but for us, spending the extra money was totally worth it. We never buy coffee out because we never need to; what we get at coffee shops isn’t any better (and is sometimes worse) than what we make at home.

      • cake batter

        +1 I was just going to recommend the Technivorm even though it’s above budget. I bought one for my husband a few years ago, and it consistently makes amazing coffee that beats anything we can buy at 90% of coffee shops (falling short of any of the REALLY fancy craft places).

        I like to make a pot at night and chill it for iced coffee in the morning. Iced coffee can sometimes be too bitter for me (as opposed to cold brew), but this stuff is smooth as velvet.

        If you can get one on sale or have a giftcard to burn, I’d totally splurge on it.

      • Anon

        The only thing making me hesitate on this is the 5 year warranty. I wish I had more reassurance of longevity or that it could and would be repaired if anything came up.

        • Anon

          We paused on that too, but figured that with daily use, if it fails after 5 years we will have gotten our money’s worth out of it. If we were only periodic coffee drinkers, or had one person drinking one cup a day, a Technivorm would probably not be worth it. We have two coffee drinkers in the house and we use the Technivorm every day – back when we went to work, both of us took thermoses of coffee to work with us, and now we just do refills to take back to our WFH desks. Sometimes we will brew a second pot, if we have people over or want to make extra iced coffee. So on a cost-per-use basis, it’s worth it even if it doesn’t last forever.

      • Mrs. Jones

        The Technivorm Moccamaster is the BEST. We’ve had ours for about 6 years.

      • Pink

        DH and I are coffee snobs and each drink a pot of coffee per day, so the Technivorm was a no-brainer for us. But I agree if you only drink 1 or 2 cups per day, I’d go with the Aeropress. If you get an Aeropress, spring for the metal filter so you don’t have to keep buying paper filters.

    • Never too many shoes...

      I have a Cuisinart with built-in burr grinder and stainless carafe. This is my second one of this model (first one lasted 6 or so years of everyday use).

    • AnonATL

      I have the Cuisanart that has the single serve on one side and carafe on the other. It’s great because I prefer a fresh hot cup every morning, and my husband prefers to make a large batch and cool it for Iced coffee. The single serve side comes with a refillable plastic container to use instead of Kcups if you don’t want to go that route.
      It’s a little bulky with both options, but not that much larger than a traditional carafe one. Maybe not small kitchen friendly though if you don’t need both options.

    • anon

      I upgraded my old coffee machine to the Bonavita Connoisseur and it’s amazing. Love it so much. I drink a lot of coffee. It’s around $110.

    • Anon

      I have a French press, grinder, and electric kettle. It’s the best! Fresh ground coffee and you can make it as weak or strong as you’d like.

  13. Horse Crazy

    Paging my fellow equestrians – the sweet Thoroughbred I ride is going to be put down this week. He’s 32 years old and is the most amazing horse ever. His incredible owners have let me ride him for free once a week for 6 years. They are so generous and have let me be a part of his life. I want to get the something to memorize him and thank them for being such generous people. I want it to be personal, but I feel like so many personalized, custom gifts are really cheesy. I’m willing to spend up to $200, and I’d prefer to not do something with his hair. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Ugh, I can’t stop crying.

    • Anon

      I don’t have any suggestions other than a simple, classic framed photo, but I’m so, so sorry. Losing horses is so much harder than most people realize. Hugs.

      • anon

        Same. And I’m very sorry you’re facing this loss. He sounds like a special horse.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      :-( So sorry. What about a custom portrait of him? There are tons of people on etsy who will do custom portraits, or ask on your local equestrian facebook group for good local options. We always seem to have people in our local group who do this sort of thing.

      • Vicky Austin

        Aw, I like this idea. Sorry to hear you’ll have to say goodbye, Horse Crazy.

    • Clementine

      I know several people who have gotten lovely pet portraits (either for current or past pets) on Etsy. I think portraits of horses are classic, but there are lots of lovely options – I think I would go for a watercolor of his beautiful face.

    • Equestrian Attorney

      I’m so sorry about that. I would just do a beautiful picture of him framed with a heartfelt note. Or maybe something involving a horseshoe (if you have one?). I have one of my childhood pony’s shoes on the wall in my home office and it’s a wonderful reminder of him. People also make them into various creative things for the house, but I’m not sure that honors the horse’s memory as much.

      • CountC

        Also, if you are able to cut tail hair before he is put down, there are some lovely vases that are made with horse hair that you could have commissioned. Search horse hair pottery on Etsy.

    • Anon

      If the owners celebrate Christmas, maybe a handpainted Christmas ball with a miniature portrait of the horse on it? There’s a woman in Maryland who has been listed in Oprah’s favorite things for handpainted portrait ornaments of dogs. These are great. Maybe she would do a horse.

    • Amber

      So sorry – that is so sad! The gift ideas that have been posted sound good – I would also include a nice card with a letter about how much you have loved the horse, what it has meant to you to be able to ride it, etc. Sorry you are dealing with this.

    • Horse Crazy

      Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate all the sweet comments and suggestions <3

  14. Anon

    My roommate moved out early due to covid (her furniture is here but she’s been staying at her parents in the burbs) and my new lease with a new roommate doesn’t start til August. I have about 5 weeks of living alone and want to make the most of it. Due to frugality and being an extrovert, I would doubt that Id ever choose to live alone so this is likely my one shot at it. I’ve heard people say that everyone should live alone for some time, I guess to get to know themselves?

    So far, I’m enjoying it more than I would have thought. Any ideas on making the most of this time?

    • anon

      This may be super lame but I would hire a cleaning service to do a deep clean then enjoy living in a pristine space for the next few weeks. I’ve always had roommates who are messier than I am so having everything clean and organized (without me having to do the cleaning and organizing) would be my treat to myself.

      • Anonymous

        I have a similar roommate-moved-out situation as OP and I hired a cleaner to come the day after. It was glorious and well worth the money. The nice things about having the place to yourself are: being able to run laundry whenever I want and not have my roommate leave her clothes in the washer for a day and in the dryer for 3 days until I remind her about it; being able to cook whenever I want; ample fridge space; having a couple friends over for a byob/food dinner without it being weird; watch movies and lie about on the couch on weekends; and play podcasts throughout the apartment without feeling like I’m making too much noise.

      • Anonymous

        This is what I did when I had a gap between roomies; unfortunately the guy I’d been living with wasn’t very clean, so when we got all his crap out I did a thorough clean of the space while I didn’t have to navigate around all his furniture.

        Under normal circumstances, I’d also suggest having friends over and all the parties you want, but that’s probably not the best idea right now.

    • Anon

      Did anyone else on here watch the show “I’m Sorry”? Kind of obscure, but I highly recommend it. It is on Netflix. This reminds me of the episode where she is home alone for the first time in years, and it was one of my favorite episodes. Spoiler: pants are not involved.

      • Anonymous

        I love that show so much. The episode you mention is great, as is the lice episode. Now I think it is time for a rewatch.

      • Anonymous

        Ha, I have not watched this show, but I was going to say that one of the things I love about living on my own is the ability to walk around in various states of undress whenever I feel like it.

    • Anon

      I’ve been living alone since my roommate left in March. Thank goodness she’s still paying her half of the rent and we resigned the lease. I’ve just taken over the entire apartment. The couch and the countertop are my office, I have a little workout area with light weights and my yoga mat. I’ve been cooking a ton of new recipes, etc. It won’t be life changing since it’s only a few weeks and during covid but it’s nice to temporarily have your own space. I’m dreading working from home all day with a roommate again.

  15. Mortgage brokers

    Thank you all for your helpful comments last week about questions to ask a realtor to weed out bad realtors. Your perspectives and questions got us better insights.

    One thing that’s still unclear in my mind is mortgage brokers/loan originators. What is the purpose of interviewing a few different mortgage brokers? Reading online about this, standard questions are the “how much can I afford” variety… but we already know that. And we know we aren’t going to do a loan like interest only loan. So what is the goal of interviewing multiple brokers? What should we ask to weed out the bad brokers? What do you wish you knew before you supplied all of your paperwork to get pre-approved/verified? We’re trying to stay away from Rocket Mortgage or Better, which apparently don’t have a good outcome in our hot market.

    • AFT

      FWIW, I’ve always just gotten a referral to a mortgage broker from a friend and not interviewed multiple brokers, and the experience has always been fine-not-great. I don’t think that the broker can necessarily get you better deals, but communication/warning about issues may be better with one versus another – although some of that is related to the deal and not the broker. Good luck in your home !

    • AnonMPH

      Not an expert, but having just gone through the process of buying our first home, I’d say I now know two things about mortgage lenders and what you might look for between them.

      1) You’re shopping around for rates, first and foremost. Between two lenders that we spoke to, one offered a nearly 1% lower rate than the other on the same type of loan. You probably have to fill out a lot of the paperwork for preapproval to get them to tell you what rate they would give you, but it’s worth it. And you should talk to a bunch of mortgage lenders and do that preapproval process within 2 weeks, because then all the pulls after the first one are “soft” pulls on your credit.
      2) Your particular market will probably favor certain lenders. In the DMV area, there’s evidently a very strong preference for local banks (rather than say, Chase or Bank of America or whatever major national) and a preference within those for certain particular ones that are known for always being able to close on time. Our seller actually had written into the contract documents a preference for a particular local bank. We were able to go with a different one because she had no other offers, but on a competitive property you would need to go with that type of request. I had NO idea, and that is something a good realtor will know and be able to explain to you about your market. Our mortgage is with a bank I’d absolutely never heard of before we started the process.

      • Mortgage brokers

        @AnonMPH, it sounds like you did the legwork – interacted with multiple lenders… rather than use a mortgage broker or loan originator?

        • AnonMPH

          Oh yes, you’re right! See, I’m still such a newbie that I didn’t realize there was a difference.
          Our realtor gave us a list of 4 or 5 recommended lenders that she works with in the area, and we reached out to three of them to talk. We wound up only actually having the discussions with two because the second one gave us such a crazy low rate and we wound up submitting an offer so much earlier than anticipated. We needed to move quickly to write the contract, and also we felt pretty confident no one was going to be able to beat that rate.

    • CountC

      I worked as an RE agent, and also purchased / sold two houses. What I want in a loan officer is someone whose underwriters are in-house, not part of some giant mega-bank. This helps with the loan process and ensuring that any snags along the way (and there will be snags) are resolved quickly and on a personal relationship basis. I also want someone who will communicate well and, when necessary, on a timely basis. I also want someone who isn’t going to be annoyed if I ask questions.

    • Anon

      Honestly, go with the rates. I know someone who closed with Quicken/Rocket and their closing process was one of the better ones. I know USAA has historically had serious problems with not having things in order for closings and they have had a terrible reputation (like they forgot to do anything for my husband’s closing on his first house, yikes) but even still I would use them if the rate was right. You just need to stay on top of it and your agent should also be on top of it since that’s their job.

      I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for a seller or broker to require you to go with a certain lender. When you make an offer you need a preapproval letter from someone to show that you are good for the funds, but you can choose a different mortgage company. For both properties I bought I was preapproved through my Realtor’s in house broker for ease but ended up going a different route at settlement.

    • Nesprin

      If you’re in a hot market time to close is something to optimize for and can make or break an offer- as in our market at least 1 in 4 offers are all cash (yes, the bay area is fing nuts). Our broker (recommended by our realtor) spoke to the seller’s agent about our likelyhood of getting our loan and got a jumbo loan done in 18 days (for reference, our bank claimed that 35 days was industry leading).

    • Anon

      I love my mortgage broker. She got me such good deals in the 2012ish time frame that I didn’t have to refinance recently when rates were at an all time low. I was already there.

      I was referred to her by my realtor. My realtor knows everyone in the local industry so his recommendations were everything, and the mortgage broker is no exception. Everyone at the title company knew her too. It made everything easier. Like the title agent realized last minute she needed an additional document. She called me and then while she was asking me for it she said “oh, Dawn is doing your mortgage. I’ll just call her.”

      • Mortgage broker

        Yes, this! The realtor we’re working with gave us 4 names… now how do I pick among them? What do I ask to figure out which is the best mortgage broker? Or are they all pretty much the same?

        • Anon

          Actually in the case of Dawn, I was referred to her group and worked with a guy named Rich the first time (first house, first refinance) but then Rich was busy and I got Dawn the next time and we just clicked, and I’ve used her specifically ever since.

  16. anon

    How do you deal with a colleague who is, for lack of a better word, exhausting to work with? Perhaps it’s a difference in communication styles, but every request from her is long and unnecessarily drawn-out. In a way, it feels like she’s talking down to me or questioning my competence. And if anything goes even slightly wrong — which happened recently and was way outside my ability to control — she has this way of implying that I’ve done something wrong and follows up AGAIN with a long, drawn-out explanation of why it’s a problem. DUDE, I KNOW. I have tried following up with her every step of the way, but it’s super annoying and I really don’t have to do this much hand-holding with anyone else in my office.

    It sounds like I’m going to be working with her on more projects and I am dreading it. She seems friendly in person but is just a pain in my a## when it comes to execution. Her role on the org chart is very unclear: she’s sort of a one-woman team and I’m not even sure who she reports to. I hear she’s part of the senior team but she doesn’t actually manage anyone (thank god). I have to tread carefully here because she is friends with my boss.

    Do I just suck it up and chalk it up to a difference in communication styles? IDK, even when I’ve done *nothing* wrong, she has a way of making me feel like I have. Even simple requests have this tone of “I have to explain things to you like you’re a simpleton.” This is a higher ed environment … she’s a Ph.D. turned administrator who is now working with mere “staff people.”

    • AFT

      It sounds like it’s her and not you. I would try to reflect on whether there are any circumstances that make the interaction less painful – e.g., talking by phone versus email? A call at the outset of the project to discuss what’s coming versus repeated one off requests? If no, then just try to make it as painless as possible for you — like by minimizing your interactions with her, only dealing with her by email, or providing her more information than she initially asks for to see if that avoids followup.

    • Anonymous

      If you’re in high ed, is it possible that she’s merely an inveterate teacher who doesn’t know how to communicate without “teaching”? So that, therefore, everything she says has an explaining tone as if the person she’s talking to needs to be educated? If that’s possible, and if she’s also a “loves all the details and can’t leave them out without feeling like she’s shortchanged the topic” person, then . . . yeah, that’s hard to put up with. But it’s a “her” thing, nothing about you.

  17. Piper Dreamer

    Coding Bootcamp Questions. Husband wants to retool. He is currently an unhappy lawyer at a smaller firm and is absolutely miserable. He has a math degree and is good with that sort of stuff. We can live on my salary alone though we will save less. I am very happy at my current position and expect to spend next 5 years here at least. Based on the above, should we give it a go? If so, any good bootcamps that you would recommend in NYC/upstate NY area?

    • Anon

      What does he want to do after the bootcamp? I know there’s a lot of positive press but I’m a bit skeptical about the hiring rates of graduates of these bootcamps. I work in the field and we don’t hire out of them.

      • Piper Dreamer

        One thing he mentioned is law-adjacent areas, so things like Westlaw, LexisNexis or other legal search sites. He also mentioned that he wants to build something (versus taking things apart like he is doing right now). I know that is vague, and I do want to push him to find out more (just don’t know what Qs to ask given how ignorant I am about the field).

        • Anon

          he needs to talk to a career coach/advisor or do some more thinking before just jumping into something new. depending on where he went to undergrad or law school, he might try starting with the career center

    • anon

      I was married to your husband 5 years ago. My spouse ended up getting a professional masters degree – which is basically a 1-2 year coding degree. Our impression is that he has much better job options that coding camp grads. Coding camps, since they are short, gloss over some subjects. Your experience may be different (and we’re in a different market) but I would start by asking about the jobs that graduates have taken.

    • Anon

      one of my colleagues did a data science bootcamp while working full time (our workplace is fairly 9-5). it met twice a week during the week and once on the weekends for 6 months (it sounded beyond exhausting to me, but she did it) she was able to use some of what she learned to help our team. she stayed for about 9 months after completing the boot camp and then got a job at a large nonprofit doing data science/data analysis related work. before DH leaves his job and does a bootcamp off the bat, he should at least try one course to see if he likes it at all and should definitely enter the bootcamp with some kind of end goal in sight.

    • Anon

      I have known people that have done bootcamps like this with good results. My college roommate did one in NYC and works at a marketing company doing data analysis– she had an accounting background. DH routinely hires people from these programs and works in software. He actually likes the grads of these programs better than traditional CS grads because they generally know how to manage a project themselves and have some people skills. They also generally learn how to teach themselves a new language well. I don’t think grads of these programs would be eligible for some of the more prestigious jobs in our area, but we have a shortage of people with programming skill sets so there are definitely middle of the road jobs available, which still pay really well.

      • Anon

        +1. My husband is a developer who now leads a team and hires developers. He’ll take a coding bootcamp graduate with other life and professional experience over a new CS grad any day; his experience has been that the coding bootcamp grad and the new CS degree holder come into a job with similar coding skills (that are in need of seasoning and improvement), but the new-to-the-workforce degree holder is going to take a really long time to come up to speed on project management and client service, and ends up being about three times as much work for him/his team. My understanding is bootcamp program quality varies widely so anyone considering one of these needs to do a lot of research. But bootcamp grads can and do get hired.

    • Anon

      Does he actually want to do coding, or math? They’re pretty different. (Married to a math professor here, if he/you have any questions about the academic route or other things to do with a math degree.)

    • Anon

      The people I know who successfully made this career change skipped the bootcamp, studied on their own, and acquired certain certifications by studying for and taking exams. But they may just have been people who prefer self study.

    • Anon

      My husband switched from finance (banking, which he hated) to programming (fintech) in NYC about 3 years ago. He was early 30s at the time and had recently completed a part-time MBA. He didn’t do a boot camp, but spent about 2-3 years programming as a hobby and online (mostly) free classes. He’d get up early, programming/take online classes 1-2 hours before work and then also 2 hours or so of working on independent projects after work plus at least a half to full day each weekend (I admire/d his dedication! I would never have that kind of motivation/dedication to additional “work” out of work). He also wrote (and pushed) some iOS and Android apps, in addition to learning more data science, ML and software development skills.

      I think all the hard work and time spent doing this as a hobby ahead of making the switch really made him confident that this was the right path/career switch for him. He’s doing really well now at a fintech company b/c he has a good mix of finance, people skills and tech skills (isn’t their #1 programmer certainly, but now manages a team).

      I’d suggest your husband do something similar to really make sure he likes this sort of thing before jumping in full speed.

      Of note, through the transition we could have lived off my salary, if things went south. He also took a fairly decent pay cut compared to banking, but is SO much happier and since I have increased my salary significantly in the past few years, our total HHI has still grown.

  18. Anon

    Went backpacking this weekend (thanks for the tips on whether fast food places are wearing masks last week). We decided not to stop on the road at all except for gas (with gloves and masks) and we didn’t use any real bathrooms all weekend. I noticed that the destination we went to was much more crowded than it typically is on a nonholiday weekend. I think people are transitioning their travel a bit. We saw tons of RVs and lots of people pulling into the parking lot as we were leaving, but fortunately we had the back country mostly to ourselves.

    My point is that if you want to backpack this summer, social distancing is a cinch out there as long as you plan the road trip part well, but be wary of the main trailheads and visitor center areas.

  19. Anon

    Finally combatting the COVID 15. What is your favorite source for healthy / clean meals? Bonus if they’re both easy to make and and are packable / good for meal prep?

  20. Jo March

    Does anyone have recs for tank tops they love? I am short with narrow shoulders and quite heavily endowed. I had a fe white and gray tanks that looked great under cardigans, v-necks, etc. that I loved but they’ve worn out over the years and I can’t find them again. I am very self-conscious about showing cleavage (especially now that I’m on video calls all days long) and am finding it frustrating that I can’t find anything that completely covers my cleavage without being a crew neck cut. Any and all recs appreciated!

  21. Anonymous

    Tell me about your patio. We have a brand new 700sq ft patio going in. We do not have a deck. I’m buying furniture. We are in New England and will either have to cover or store it (which we have a shed for).

    I am thinking a teak table & chairs with umbrella for dining. We have space for another area. We’d been looking at a couch/chair with cushions but never seem to use those when at others’ houses. I’m finding myself leaning more toward Adirondack chairs or more lounge-type chairs.

    Our uses are mainly to have other families over while our kids run around in the yard and we have cocktails and chat. Right now we’ve been doing that in 3 Adirondack chairs and a couple beach chairs we grabbed from the garage.

    Do you have the couch setup *in addition to table and chairs* and love it? Other ideas?

    • Anon

      I have a big screened porch and deck. Lots of seating, including a couch. The couch is always the very last place that anyone chooses, even though it has a great location and a table convenient for drinks or nibbles. Folks even choose plain dining chairs before the couch, which is quite comfy. Now that I write this, I think I should replace my couch with more chairs….

    • anon

      My parents got one of those plastic chests that are a total eyesore. So ugly, but oh so convenient to throw in your cushions every night.

    • Anon

      We had a teak bench and two arm chairs and small tables for lounging and rarely used them. We got some cheap Adirondack chairs and used them more because they were more comfortable, but they made my butt fall asleep after about 1/2 hour. We gave those away and got cushioned furniture (metal frames with “deep” cushions) and now you can’t get me out of those things on sunny weekends.

      The trade off is of course that I can’t keep the cushions outdoors year round but they’re so much more comfortable that we actually use them.

      The cushions do occasionally get wet during rainstorms, but since they’re meant to be outside, they dry quickly and I can definitely use them the following day.

        • Anon

          I got them from the now defunct Orchard Supply Hardware, so I don’t know a specific brand to recommend – sorry! My recommendation is really that cushioned outdoor furniture will get used a lot more than weatherproof but less comfortable furniture.

    • CHL

      I just got a huge sectional for our deck from Yardbird and I really like it and it was a really good customer service experience if there’s anything there that looks good. We have the sectional with a coffee table, then a little conversation set with a loveseat and two chairs and a coffee table (from Target) and then a dining table with 6 chairs on a lower patio (Target). The target stuff is fine but not nearly as comfortable as Yardbird.

    • Serafina

      I know this doesn’t answer your question but I just want to say that your patio is bigger than my entire apartment (for 2 people and 2 pets).
      Bay Area apartments :( :(

      • Anonymous

        OP here. It is bigger than my first apt and the one i lived in with DH, too! And almost as big as our first house. We fled to the burbs and have so much space now.

    • aBr

      We have rain-through quick drying cushions. Worth every penny, mostly so that you don’t have to wait forever for the cushions to dry.

      • Anonymous

        I have been saving up for Adirondack chairs by Loll for awhile. They are comfortable and the reviews say that they do not have to be covered over the winter.

    • Anonymous

      We have a dining table and sling chairs from Tropitone, I like it better than wood because you can really clean the glass and the metal frames.

  22. College

    Last week a lot of people defended 2 years of community college + 2 years residential college. My mom did this (they called them junior college back then and you got an AA and that was enough for several types of jobs then but maybe 50% of those students continued on to get BAs). [Penn State may be different b/c I know that a lot of kids spend 2 years at satellite campuses and then 2 years in State College; not all satellites grant BAs but some do.] At any rate, I feel that there is no shame at all in this and it fits many family budgets. But I also feel that certain types of employers would circular file your resume based on this alone, which feels very unfair.

    I know this board skews towards very competitive employers (law firms, consulting, higher ed, Big 4 accounting firms). If your workplace is like that and yet they’d be open to applicants like this, can you chime in? I hate that I suspect that many places talk inclusivity, including students from modest backgrounds or who attended high schools that didn’t immediately prepare them for selective colleges, but don’t actually practice it.

    • Anon

      The two big 4 accounting firms I worked for had no issue with my 2 years at junior college.

      • Anonymous

        That is great to hear!

        I live in a pressure cooker and kids as early as middle school see anything less than Ivy League-type schools as indicators of failure (in middle school!!!). I am glad that the real world doesn’t define aptitude or success so narrowly.

      • Anonanonanon

        It’s not as common where I am (sadly), but I don’t know that it matters in law. I did 2 years at junior college and 2 years at state u 50 miles from where u grew up. At my law firm, I think they are just looking at law schools.

    • LittleBigLaw

      I missed this discussion last week, but this is very common in my area. However, most people I know just transfer after 2 years instead of getting the AA. Because their degrees are from the residential college, there’s probably no reason to list the CC on a resume if there’s a concern about perception.

    • Eek

      If your degree is from the 4 year college, do you even need to list the community/junior college if you don’t want to? It’s hard for me to see an employer noticing or caring about this at all. If you have a law degree or other professional degree on top of your bachelors, it seems even less important to me.

      • Vicky Austin

        +1, if it really bothers you I don’t see any harm in leaving it off. I know a lot of people whose degrees were completed bit by bit at multiple colleges and I don’t believe they list any other than the final degree-issuing institution on their resume. Caveat that IANA hiring manager.

      • Anon

        +2. I didn’t go to a JC or community college, but ended up transferring schools midway through my undergrad degree, when the scholarship program I was in got canceled after two years at the first school I attended, and I was able to get another (very nice) scholarship offer from a different school closer to home. I graduated from the second school with a B.S. and that’s what I put in my resume; I never mentioned the first college I attended in my resume and only listed it if asked for “all institutions previously attended” in applications. It shows up in my college transcript (my final transcript from the college I graduated from lists the transfer credits) but no one I interviewed with ever even asked me about it. I would say 90% of the people I know now, including some of my closer friends, don’t even know I attended the first college because I never talk about it (no reason to) and the topic never comes up.

    • Anonymous

      My fancy law firm would love to see this. If you went to a good law school they would care where you started out except this shows real determination.

    • Anon

      I think people think this is a bigger deal than it actually is. On your resume, you list the degree you have from the school you graduated from. Later on in hiring processes, sure it will come up on a transcript but honestly I don’t think anyone really cares that much about what grade you got in your freshman year courses no matter where you took them. Plenty of people who went to a traditional 4 year school the entire time have courses on their transcript from community college because they took a course over the summer, over winter break, while in high school, etc. I am very involved in hiring at my BigLaw firm that I personally think is too elitist when it comes to hiring but I’ve never heard anyone say anything negative about a candidate who did this. People care much more deeply about law school. And we take plenty of people who transferred in from lower tier law schools but graduated from more prestigious law schools. All that shows up on the firm bio is the school you graduated from. It may(?) factor into getting into law school, but I have a hard time believing that it really matters all that much if you have a strong GPA and LSAT score. If anything, I think schools and employers will be looking for more students like this because you end up with a more diverse hiring pool.

    • anon

      I’ve worked in biglaw and in-house and I can’t see anyone caring where a candidate completed their first two years of college. It doesn’t pertain to whether someone can do the work. I might be slightly impressed if it was like two years of community college then MIT or something, but it wouldn’t make a big difference.

    • Anon

      I think you’re looking at this the wrong way.

      If you’re in a hypercompetitive profession that recruits straight from undergrad, then you’re looking for superstars, not people who are (merely) reasonably smart. Superstars have a lot of options that mere mortals do not. Harvard is famously free for students whose families earn below a certain amount of money. Most of the top schools meet all demonstrated need, and are therefore as inexpensive or even cheaper than state schools. The schools one tier down will offer incredibly generous merit scholarships to kids (although, note, merit aid is almost never available to transfer students; it’s used to attract a stronger freshman class). That brings the price down to or below the cost of state. Your flagship state school may also offer very generous merit aid, so you only have to pay for room and board. But again, only available to freshman.

      The top schools actively recruit all over the country, in inner cities and rural Appalachia, and look for first-generation college students. I’m not saying that the sweep up every talented student; that would be ridiculous. But they recruit and enroll *enough* so that very desirable employers can have their pick of brilliant, driven students from a wide variety of backgrounds.

      For kids who didn’t know all that at age 17, or whose high schools did not prepare them for elite college admissions, their best bet is to get an outstanding graduate degree (which matters a lot more than undergrad, as the last school counts the most).

    • Anonymous

      I work for one of the largest law firms in the country and am very confident this would not be an issue. Maybe this is just true of law firms in general, but I find that undergrad just doesn’t matter at all, because your law school does. And even then the more experience you have the less your law school is a factor.

    • CPA Lady

      I worked for a large regional public accounting firm. I took a bunch of accounting and business classes at community college, then transferred the credits to a state four year university, and it didn’t matter at all. What mattered was my ability to pass the CPA exam. I had several sections already passed by the time I was job hunting and I received multiple offers.

      Also, my husband works for a FAANG company. He has a BA in a liberal arts subject, and later got a two year degree in a computer engineering related subject from a community college. His company actually recruited directly from the community college for lower level roles, which is how he started out, and then he has been promoted repeatedly over the years and now makes three times my salary.

      This experience actually really jaded me about the extremely expensive fancy private college we both graduated from. It was a wonderful experience to go there, but it was completely unnecessary from a career standpoint.

      • Jess

        Is it possible he’s doing better and you’re doing worse because of implicit bias against women? Because the research shows that Ivy league degrees make a bigger difference for poorer kids and for minorities, which to me would indicate that women probably benefit as well since they face implicit bias. To me, the moral of the story isn’t that the name on your sheepskin doesn’t matter, it’s that your husband probably did better for himself than most of his classmates. And he’s super lucky that he worked somewhere that promoted internally, because that’s not an option to many employees, for whom the advice is now to change jobs to get promoted.

        • Anon

          Anecdotally, I know several men who went to no-name schools or didn’t graduate and did extremely well, but almost no women. I fear that men who go that route are seen as go-getters, but women are seen as…??

        • CPA Lady

          There are a variety of reasons it has ended up like this. Certainly for a lot of people, gender bias is part of it, but it’s not a huge part of it for us. It mostly has to do with choices we made based on our strengths and personalities. He’s obsessed with working. I’m not. I like my job and all, but I’m not willing to work 80 hours a week half the year, so after a few years in the more intense firm, I took a job at a smaller more chill firm that comes with some drawbacks– lower salary and lack of upward career trajectory are two of them. But at this point, it’s a trade-off I’m willing to make for quality of life reasons.

          And FWIW, we didn’t go to an Ivy. Obviously an Ivy is a big deal, resume-wise, and I would never suggest there’s not difference between an Ivy and [community college + state school]. But there’s much less of a difference between a private college and [community college + state school] when it comes to career prospects than admissions departments would have you believe. There are plenty of other reasons you might want to go to a private college. Smaller class sizes, whimsical traditions, etc. But I’m just saying that in our experience, it hasn’t mattered to a FAANG and to a large regional public accounting firm that we went to community college, which is what the OP was asking about.

    • Anon

      I do interviewing and hiring, and if I saw this I would consider it a huge plus. It absolutely helps with hiring a workforce with diverse backgrounds and experiences to consider applicants with a non-traditional trajectory. My favorite interview question when I hire for entry-level lawyers is, “tell me about your first job.” If this lawyer job will be their first, I know how much additional hand-holding it will take to teach them how to be an employee, and not just a lawyer.

      As a general matter I’d prefer an applicant who started working at Dairy Queen at 14 and worked their way through community college and eventually a 4-year program vs. someone who got to be 24 or 25 without ever having to pay their own way or support themselves.

      • Anon

        +1 million to your last paragraph. I’d also look very favorably at this type of applicant. Graduating from a fancy school right after high school tells me that you’re smart but also that you probably had a lot of access to things that make getting into those types of schools possible. I’m not all that impressed by what 16 or 17 year old did that made you appealing to Harvard.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with you that it’s a good option and makes financial sense esp for a family where college finances are an issue and the only other option is 100k or whatever in debt for undergrad. BUT I’ll be honest at my biglaw firm which isn’t even a tip top firm (a vault 25), your application would be circular filed IF it clarified that it was junior college + 2 years at regular college or if it came out in conversation. At my firm all the inclusivity talk REALLY means, SURE we want black/Asian/Hispanic associates (they don’t really but they take some) IF they are double ivy because then we can point to them as the exceptional black candidate who of course deserves to be here because he has 2 Harvard degrees (when BTW all the 65 year old partners mostly don’t even have one ivy degree — lots of Brooklyn, St Johns etc. grads). That being said, if this is something a kid wants/needs to do financially, it can be done just quietly — have your resume just say B.S. Penn State and don’t clarify that the first 2 years were community college; most firms don’t do that much diligence.

      • Anonymous

        I fear that this attitude is common — that it taints a kid as dumb (whereas many are just unready, academically or able to handle the temptations of liquor / no parents) and none of my co-workers would be anything but horrified if this is the path their kids took. But my personal background is that if a kid is thought by the parents not to be ready for a 4-year college, the parents send the kid to a 2-year school as a test drive (I have a cousin with two associates degrees — both related to current field in forrestry). I really hate Achievement Culture sometimes. I think that there are many paths to personally fulfilling lives and give you enough $ to live on.

      • Anon

        Hmmm interesting. I’m at a V25 firm and no one would care about this. People care a lot about law school brand name and law school grades but undergrad doesn’t really matter unless there’s something really interesting about your undergrad experience (e.g., you won some crazy award, played a D1 sport, were the editor of the newspaper) or you happened to go to the same alma mater as your interviewer and you get the boost from having something in common.

      • Anonymous

        My V25 is like this. The expectations on associates re ridiculous re ivy degrees, usually double ivy degrees, fed clerkships etc, when the partners DON”T have that. Same as the prior poster, it’s an NYC firm so there are tons in leadership from local schools but they take the attitude with prospective associates of — don’t talk to me if you didn’t go to Columbia or Penn and not just law school but also undergrad. And yet the same people’s own kids are NO WHERE near those levels; they have the money to pay for any school in the country yet one partner kid after the next goes to Villanova, Temple, or Penn State. I’m NOT saying there’s anything wrong with those schools — all are fine schools with good programs and yet if those are ok for YOUR kids, why is it necessary that your prospective associates must have Penn undergrad degrees?

        • Anonymous

          Honest question, would your firm actually chose a candidate with a lower law school GPA because they had a fancier undergrad degree over a candidate with a less impressive undergrad degree with better law school grades, assuming both are at the same law school?

        • Anonymous

          In response to comments about associates going to better schools than partners, my personal theory is that the demand for top credentials has increased over time. The prestige of BigLaw also appears to have increased in my experience. I’m a senior associate at a V5 and my senior partners acknowledge they had an easier time getting recruited, staying employed and getting promoted to partner but the PPP was much lower in their day

          • Anon

            I agree with this. Although I will say I think the tides will change with time on the obsession with schools/grades. This is obviously a generalization, but people around my vintage (senior associate/junior partner) seem to all universally dislike the obsession with schools/grades (even though many of us have those) and find that often the “top” recruits in terms of prestige are actually the least suited for the actual work of being an associate. We all say we’d rather recruit from less prestigious schools and take students with higher GPAs from those schools. It may take 10-20 years but eventually we’ll be the ones making the decisions on how to recruit and hire. And the program most of us would design won’t be as obsessed with school prestige. This is on the transaction side for what its worth.

    • Anon

      Idk I went to a private 4 year college because they gave me max financial aid, and I got an entry level job ok but I don’t think my education was regarded as anything special.

      My coworker who joined shortly after did 2 years at community college then 2 years at Cal (UC Berkeley), mainly because he was a B student in HS and didn’t get into any of the better UCs. All anyone could talk about was our new hire from Cal. He had a degree from Cal and that was all that mattered.

      • Seventh Sister

        This is extremely common in CA – I’ve probably had 25-30 interns over the course of my career, and about 1/3 of the ones that graduated from UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc. had started at community college. The entire community college system is set up for an easy transfer to a UC if you do well at community college. If anything, they were better interns because they were often a little bit older and were pretty focused on their goals.

    • Anonymous

      I did two years at a community college, then two years at a state school for my BA. About ten years later, I did a night program at a third-tier, ABA accredited law school. I worked full-time at a law firm after college and through law school. After law school I got a state Supreme Court clerkship, followed by a federal clerkship. I got offers from many big firms both while in law school, as well as while clerking. A few asked about it but I did not feel it limited my options at all. I could have gone the big law route if I had wanted to do so — I preferred public service and opted for a government position.
      I really think it depends on how you present it to potential employers. I always looked at it as something that set me apart from other applicants and I always addressed it head on.

    • Anonymous

      I have a GED and an AA. None of the firms I’ve worked for have ever cared or asked about anything but law school. I’m a partner in an Am Law 100, fwiw.

    • Anon

      I work in philanthropy and haven’t been hurt by listing my AA degree on my resume alongside my BA and my masters. I see my working class background as a strength.

      I think it depends a lot on your field. These days the trend in philanthropy is to look for a more diverse workforce and people with lived experience that’s relevant to the mission so candidates like myself aren’t necessarily hurt by being honest about our backgrounds.

    • Anon

      For certain degrees (engineering, tech) people care to a certain extent. 15-20 years out I still get asked if I went to a branch campus or the main campus of Penn State all 4 years.
      Should it matter more than past your first job out of college, no. But if you’re going to save like $10k over a couple years on an engineering degree it’s worth it to spend the money.

  23. Online schooling for college -- slightly different wrinkle

    Two PT employers in my city (national chains) are giving free online schooling (e.g., Starbucks at Arizona State) if you work a certain # of hours a week. Stepkid could return as an OOS student at a large SEC school in the fall. But given how iffy things are, is seriously considering working a job that would let him go online for free to take classes while making some $ as long as the credits transfer (stepkid can also take online classes at our community college, which is very solid as community colleges go). The thinking is that this saves a lot of $ that might be good for grad school, avoids a subpar experience, and needed lab sciences are essentially on hold for now so what is the point. It seems reasonable (or not unreasonable). Are there pitfalls or anything else bad to think of? I feel that we were initially more optimistic about this fall, but in a hard science, it seems that higher-level coursework isn’t amenable to distance learning (and I don’t want anything disected where I cook dinner).

    • Anonymous

      I’d be all in on this or any online option. I assume you mean work at Starbucks or the other chain which is also something retail? So I would talk about whether you and he/she is ok being customer facing during a pandemic. Assuming they’ll live at home, are you ok with someone working 8 hr shifts with coworkers and handing people coffee and then coming home to your house? So assess your own health risks and risk tolerance and talk about whether you’d require any measures at home — like they walk in the door and shower or whatever.

      I think even the colleges that say they will open — it’s going to be more of a disaster than they assume just because of the population density in dorms and lecture halls. Sure places are saying they’ll cut it back and make all rooms single rooms, they could offer more sections of classes so you have 50 kids in a lecture hall not 100 (though not always easy to do that in state schools budget wise to just open more sections), but reality is these are 18-22 year olds. They are STILL going hang out 24-7 in others rooms, at parties, etc. whether allowed or not. And sure they’re young so maybe it’s NBD but from a school perspective, I think there will be rolling openings and closures all semester long with frantic — OMG someone in econ 101 tested positive and was in class yesterday, ok now class is canceled for the next 14 days and then when they return, omg someone else is positive. I am encouraging all college kids I know to see if they can go online for a semester just to avoid these stops and starts.

      I mean LSU, Clemson, Texas, West Virginia, Alabama, Kansas State, and (maybe?) South Carolina just brought their football players back for camp and are already having to quarantine etc. as players are testing positive and this is JUST 100-200 people between players and staff. Drs. are already saying that one of the problems with college sports (and college generally) will be lifestyle. Sure you can place x number of people in lecture halls, separate cafeteria tables or make cafeterias to go only etc., but it’s near impossible to police all the informal congregating that happens in dorms as well as off campus partying.

    • Anon

      Does he have gen-eds to take? If not, are the courses he needs do-able while working a job? I worked two jobs/40 hours a week in my undergrad and ended up dropping my hard science major because even doing the bare minimum survival studying, I barely had enough time to do the work needed to pass and didn’t sleep. There was no way to successfully triage my courseload so that I could devote the time needed to pass (let alone do well and learn about stuff I was really interested in!).

      tl;dr, What kind of hours would he need to work and will his course load allow it?

      • Anonymous

        I think that now you are unlikely to get 35 hours/week to avoid having to be given many FT benefits. But the college comes with ~20 hours (officially PT).

        Kiddo is loading packages for a logistics company (so limited contact) and can get 20 hours/a week (but no more) and thinks that a year of this + AP credits + online classes will knock out gen ed credits and then in Fall 2021 go back to college as a junior and finish up on time (maybe doing a summer if needed). So only 3 years on campus / high tuition vs 4 (with one of those years dismal).

        • Anonymous

          I’d do it. Clearly he has it planned out well so it’s not just some — oh maybe I’ll do this and then having it not work out and he graduates way later. Just make sure whatever online school he’d do has the classes he needs which shouldn’t be an issue if it’s general reqs. And honestly I think it’s great that it’s a package/logistics job. Sure he’ll have coworker contact but at least that’s not customer contact and lots of those companies are in fact testing people, keeping them apart, temp checks to walk in the door etc.

          • pugsnbourbon

            Agreed. My only concern was if he didn’t get enough hours to qualify for free classes, but it sounds like that’s not the case. This sounds like a smart plan.

    • Anon

      I work in higher ed and think the plan for free online is a good one. The campus experience will not be what it was even if campuses open, and there is a strong likelihood of campuses going to all distance learning part way. This results in less fluid, less effective learning than courses that were always intended to be 100% distance learning.

  24. Anon

    My 75-year old, moderate Republican dad has only recently come to appreciate the myriad ways that racism infects most of American life. When I called to wish him a Happy Father’s Day last night, he was excited to share with me the ‘astonishing’ statistic he’d read about income disparities between Black and White college graduates – it genuinely surprised him to hear that education was not the great equalizer that he assumed it was.

    I’m proud of him for being open to looking learning and exploring and I want to encourage him to continue his education – any good resources / books I can point him to, that won’t scare him off? I recommended he watch “13th,” and I’ve sent him a few articles … any good books, particularly on income inequality, that might be of interest to a fiscally conservative, suburban white guy? (He hates Trump, didn’t vote for him and won’t in November so at least that’s not a concern.)

    • Anon

      Following. My dad isn’t conservative, but he’s a privileged, suburban white guy who has never bothered to engage beyond “that’s tragic” or “the videos are shocking.” I think he thinks voting Democrat is enough. I think he needs some more accessible books to get started on this.

    • Anonymous

      There is a really old book that may be available on amazon used called North of Slavery. It is one of the few undergrad books that I kept. I think that there is a perception that this is a uniquely southern problem (so if you live in LA or the NEUS or Oregon, what do you care and it’s not like it was something you created / benefitted from if you are white). He might like that because it is a history book and about distant history, but shows things that have very long tails.

      ALSO, I can’t remember the name of it, but there is a book about George Washington (who emancipated his slaves in his will) and his efforts to reclaim a slave owned by Martha Washington who escaped to the north with her children. FWIW, Jefferson did not emancipate his slaves upon his death, but it turns out that he could not emancipate them because he died in debt and they were taken by his creditors to help settle his debts.

      Finally, if he reads the Declaration of Independence and the whole Constitution (starting with the 3/5 compromise and whether slavery should be revisited in 1808 and the post-civil war amendments), he can see how we as a country struggled with this since our country’s inception (see also Cabinet Battle #3 from the Hamilton Mixtape — it is helpful to hear that before the readings I think).

      • ArenKay

        Re George Washington, I think the book you are thinking of is Never Caught. And it is good! Very eye-opening.

        • AFT

          The Murder History Girls podcase JUST (like last week) did the story of Ona Judge (Washington’s escaped slave) – very eye opening!

    • ArenKay

      Richard Rothstein’s *The Color of Law* is an excellent history of residential racism. Really well written, and makes the connection between segregation and generational wealth impossible to deny.

      • Anonymous

        I haven’t read the book, but learning about redlining (plus the way SSI was built to exclude African-Americans) really impacted my thinking about discrimination when I learned about it in college, so I’d recommend something. That addresses the way the mid-century wealth building institutions excluded people. Given your Dad’s age, they are probably programs he has interacted with, so I think it could be really interesting for him to engage with the subject.

    • anon

      No book recs, we don’t really send each other educational material in my fam. But I feel like whenever my views of political correctness or wokeness have intimidated my dad, I was able to share a personal anecdote of something where a ‘harmless’ interaction hurt me or made it harder for me. This is not to say that I want to compare my experiences in middle-class white privilege with that of black people. Seeing the human side and how discrimination doesn’t affect ‘other people’ but his next-of-kin, made a difference and helps to acknowledge that there are discrimination and power structures all around us that we need to pay more attention to.

    • Quail

      Evicted by Matthew Desmond might be really eye-opening for someone removed from renting life. Not specifically about race or income inequality per se, but a great book.

    • Education

      Will he listen to Podcasts? Seeing White is really interesting and should be more accessible

  25. Anonymous

    Can I just vent for a minute? I work for a government entity and starting today we are all back to work 100% of the time. We are just about to go into our slow time of year for the next two months. My job can be done 100% at home. WTF is the point of bringing us all back full time? Oh, and we aren’t even being told when there are reported COVID-19 cases – only if we had close contact with the person diagnosed. I’m so upset and seriously considering job searching (if that’s even possible now) over their entire handling of this pandemic. [End rant]

    • Anon

      That is so beyond terrible policy. I’m sorry. I would definitely start job searching (and am doing the same myself for similar reasons, although my employer isn’t quite that bad).

    • anon

      ugh, I am with you! I feel like my government contractor wants to do the right thing, and is currently covered by county restrictions. But once those lift, they are probably going to be told by govt agency that we should all get back to work pronto.

    • Anonymous

      Umm that’s the law. They don’t have to disclose a positive case to you all. Sorry your feelings are hurt.

  26. Anonymous

    Someone posted last week re retired parents which led me to thinking — at what age and why did it happen that your parents’ house stopped being a respite or a break from regular life and going to visit became more of a stressful event? Assuming that it ever was a respite, I realize not everyone has that to begin with. IDK when it happened but I truly remember being in college and up thru my late 20s or even early 30s always being excited to go “home” because it would be a break from regular life, I’d come back recharged etc. Now at 40 — it’s a 50-50 shot of feeling recharged when returning vs. feeling like OMG I need a vacation (and probably more like a 30% shot of being recharged if I’m being honest). And it’s NOT because my own life or home is so great that I’m so happy there and just wanting to run back — I’m a single apartment dweller. But I remember being 25 or 30 and biglaw friends would be like — I’m taking this vacation just so I can eat, sleep, read, and recharge, I’m not even going to do any tourist things; and I used to think hmm why spend the money, just go “home.” Now I totally get it that vacation vs. visiting family are two different things. When/why did this happen for you?

    • Anonymous

      A lot depends on the parents. I never felt like going to my parents’ house was going “home,” even in college. It was always a horrible stressful ordeal. Going to visit my in-laws has never felt like going “home” to my husband either, partly because his dad married his stepmother when my husband was an adult (so husband never lived with her) and partly because they don’t live in the house where my husband grew up, but it’s always restful because they are determined to be happy at all times and their life is like an endless vacation. We are in our 40s.

    • Cat

      I think it’s a gradual part of growing up. For me, it was after deciding where to establish myself after law school and getting my own apartment, rather than the temporary resident status of student life. Suddenly it felt weird to say I was going “home” for the weekend when I had my own permanent “home.”

      The more independent you get, the more used to doing things your own way on your own schedule you get, so I too find it less relaxing to visit my parents — although we get along pretty well, my mom is definitely happiest when I revert to more of a “kid” role rather than “adult child” role, which gets… old.

    • Anonymous

      33-ish. I can’t point to a reason why really. It just became more about them and not about me if that makes sense — like the emotional support changed. We’re still close etc. but IDK it’s different — it’s less about me filling them in on the awesome things I’ve been doing lately and more about them complaining about the neighbor daring to park a car on THEIR side of the street — in a suburb where they all have their own garages, so it’s not like the street parking is ever in use. YKWIM? This also marked about 4-5 years into retirement for them so IDK maybe that has something to do with it too?

      • anonchicago

        I really agree with this. Early in my career, I would take long weekends to visit my mom (8 hour drive) and spend a week there over Christmas. We’d go shopping, go out to dinner, and I would generally just chill. We took a few vacations together those years as well. After retirement, you would think it’d be easier to socialize and have visitors since she isn’t working, but visits are filled with complaining about the state of the world, health, and extended family gossip. There’s no ability to relate to what’s going on in my life.

        Visiting my dad and stepmom was always uncomfortable, and they have moved since I was a kid so now it truly is a trip to visit them and one I’m not interested in making.

      • Serafina

        I am feeling the exact same thing! Why is it that as parents age, it seems that all conversation shifts to complaints?

    • Anon

      I stopped thinking of my parents house as “home” after I got married, and especially after my husband and I bought our own home (which is larger than my parents’) and had a kid. My parents mostly visit us (for a variety of reasons), but I’m lucky that we get along well and I don’t find spending time with them stressful in general. I’m always really sad to see them go when they leave. I do find vacationing with them kind of stressful, so we’re putting a pin in that, at least until my child is quite a bit older.

    • Anonymous

      After college, when my high school friends were no longer in town the same time as me. My dad is great, but dealing with my mother stresses me out. She’s judgy (but doesn’t realize she’s judgy) and likes to offer “suggestions” to improve my life that bear no basis in reality for my working adult life (she has either been a stay at home wife or worked very part time for my dad since I was born and is super out of touch with modern office working norms)

    • Sash

      I’m 40 with relatively young parents in good health. My parents’ house was not a respite when I was young – partly them, partly me. It only started being relaxing around 30 or so, and I expect it will swing back the other way in another 10 years.

    • Diana Barry

      Probably around age 35 – when my kids were out of being babies and my parents got a bit older and weren’t able to help out as much.

    • Anon

      I’m 40, married, and we have a toddler. My parents’ place still feels like “home” or at least like an extension of our actual home. I’m an only child, my parents and I are very close and they navigated the transition to parents of an adult child very well, so maybe that helps?

      I’m not close to my inlaws, and my husband’s relationship with them is more complicated than my relationship with my parents, but I think he feels a deep connection to their home as well.

    • anon

      I think once they saw me as a competent/independent adult they started expecting me to figure things out for them — mostly related to technology. So instead of visits home being a peaceful vacation, they were filled with endless to-do lists of pairing Bluetooth devices with the new car, resetting forgotten passwords, setting up auto-payments for bills, etc. It’s all minor stuff that I’m more than happy to help with, but the days of sleeping all day while someone else handles laundry and cooking are a distant memory.

    • AnonMPH

      I remember a very specific moment when this happened, when I was home for the holidays when I was 29. Parents are older (had me when they were 40), and both have some health and mental health issues. They were still working full time at that point, and things were just too much for them to keep up with. Going home for the holidays every year before that had always felt like relaxing into being the kid. That year, I was so stressed by their physical and mental challenges, and how dirty their home was. We were all trying to act like everything was normal, including them keeping up their old pace of life, but it was blatantly obvious that this wasn’t working. When I got “home” to my place with my then-boyfriend now husband and cried over it to him, he suggested we go up there in a few months to help out and clean the place. There have been ups and downs in my relationship with them since then (see mental and physical health issues above) but it’s all been much more about me managing their health and their feelings. I don’t feel like I can really rely on them for those things anymore. It was tough to realize that during wedding planning, and looking ahead to having kids, but those are the cards I was dealt. I know I was very lucky to have it feel like “going home”/somewhere relaxing for as long as it did.

    • Anone

      When I turned 28. My parents bought property and built a house, selling the one they’d lived in for 35 years. “Coming home” to a house I never actually lived in was not truly coming home. I never had a room there, I never left belongings there, I never used the kitchen or the shower or the washing machine. I went from waltzing in unannounced to knocking and waiting, like a guest (it was passive-aggressively made clear that this was expected of me).

      • Anonymous

        Similar experience when I was 18. My parents sold my childhood home and moved to a nearby city, so coming home from college and then grad school felt like visiting more than “going home”. I really resented them at the time, and has made me sensitive to providing that “home” feeling for my own kids (whereas my husband feels a house is always just a house). 15 years later and my dreams still take place in the childhood home.

    • SC

      For me, it was a combination of things. My parents retired and downsized to a home that I’ve never lived in, about an hour away from where I grew up. I’ve never had, and don’t need, a key to their new home. Both because of the location and as part of growing up, I don’t have my own independent “life” there like I did in college and law school–no friends in the area or errands to run or doctors’ appointments or even favorite sandwich shops or whatever. Visiting them is 100% about visiting them. Also, when I visit, especially with my husband and child, I’m treated as a guest, and my parents plan fun things to do and nice meals. I appreciate that, but it’s just different from high school and college when my mom would make beef strogonoff or whatever weeknight meal and leave a plate on the back of the stove for me if I wasn’t home at dinner time. Finally, a trip with my kid is never a true respite/vacation–no matter where we go, I’m responsible for his basic needs, safety, schedule, discipline, and to some degree entertainment. My parents are a huge help with my kid, but DH and I are (appropriately) the ones “in charge,” which makes it impossible to go back to the “kid” role.

    • Anon

      As someone who has never felt like my childhood home was a respite, but didn’t grow up in a really ‘bad’ home per se, you just blew my mind that a lot of people feel relaxed and recharged at home… I always dreaded going home even for school breaks during college (& took summer classes to avoid it). But reading these comments, I see posters say it changed when they had to start taking care of their parents/when it was all about their parents feelings, etc. That has always been true for me and I can’t imagine I’m alone.

  27. Peace Corps

    Any Peace Corps alumnae here? I have friends who did it (and then went to law school), but I think that it could be good in many career fields (public health, etc.). I’m curious about how life played out 5 and 10 years after. I also know a retiree to went into the PC who just loves it; IIRC she was a social worker previously.

    • Anon

      I was in the Peace Corps right after college. I loved living in West Africa but I was a terrible volunteer. I really struggled at the age with the lack of structure (they literally dropped me off in a village and were like – improve the health here). I had a degree in political science. We did some organizing stuff but I was kind of useless. If I did it now I’d probably have a better idea of how to land, build relationships, assess the situation and make a better plan. I quit a year in. I worked in international non-profits for a while and then realized that HR and organizational development are actually really similar to international development principles and I’m 15 years into a career in corporate HR. So…maybe not the typical path. Of the people I was close with in my group, a couple are lawyers, some are teachers, several work in DC in international development or State Department.

    • Z

      I have a friend who was supposed to start time with the Peace Corps in April, but then coronavirus happened and they cancelled all outgoing trips and sent current volunteers home. She has an engineering degree and planned to go to grad school after, not sure for what subject. She was very excited, I hope she’s able to do it in the future.

    • Anonymous

      No, but a friend did Peace Corps in conjunction with a Masters in Public Health. This was about 10 years ago (I’m losing track of the years). She now works for the Department of Public Health.

    • AnonMPH

      I did not join the Peace Corps but work in global health so approximately 50% of everyone I know and work with DID do the peace corps. It is seen as a pretty standard entry pathway into global health, and somewhat less so but also consistently into domestic public health work.

      In the last several years they’ve made it a bit more like a job application, where you can select a particular development sector and even a country (before you just had to throw your hat in and see where they sent you and what they assigned you to).

      I think it’s one of the most established ways to gain entry level experience working in international development with field work.

    • Anonymous

      Me! Loved it. Did it straight out of college then went to law school and studied international law, now work as a lawyer for the government. I handle some, but not much, international law in my work. Outwardly, my current career doesn’t appear to have much to do with my Peace Corps service, but I use what I learned in my 2.5 years volunteering every day in my personal and professional law. Understanding where others are coming from, being flexible, communicating clearly and not assuming a shared baseline, etc. I truly think it was the best possible thing I could have done as an unskilled 22-year old. And I had a blast.

  29. Anonymous

    Not trying to flame- genuinely interested in y’alls opinions. What do you think will have a bigger impact on a state like Florida’s economy, a shut down for 2.5 months followed by phased limited reopenings, similar to what is happening in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, and other former Covid-19 hot-spots, OR 1.5 month shut down with pretty much full reopening after (that is my understanding of what FL did, please correct me if wrong), but over 18k Covid deaths in 6 months? Asking because that the IMHE model now predicts over 18k deaths in FL by 10/1. These models obviously have limitations and flaws, but so far the IMHE model has been too conservative in its projections, which makes the 18k+ projection even more concerning.

    • Anonymous

      Obviously I agree with you they should have shut down longer but FYI your Post is not neutral at all.

      • anon

        “genuinely interested in y’alls opinions” can be true even if the post isn’t neutral. It is possible to have an opinion and still care about/want to hear other opinions.

    • Anon

      I’m not disagreeing that many models underestimate deaths, but the IMHE models seem really terrible in general. They’re not consistently under- or over-predicting, they’re just all over the place and frequently drastically revise their estimates without the addition of any new data. I think there are *much* better models out there, so I’m irked that that’s the only model anyone ever discusses.

      To answer your question, if Florida actually stayed open permanently, I think 18k deaths is unequestionably better for the economy than extended shutdowns and a slow reopening (FROM A STRICTLY ECONOMIC STANDPOINT. I’m not saying people’s lives don’t matter). However, I think Forida is on track to get absolutely overwhelmed and basically be forced to shutdown again, and I think repeated shutdowns will be far worse economically than one longer shutdown and a gradual reopening. I know the red state governors say “we are never shutting down again” but if people are dying in hospital hallways like they were in Italy in March, there will be enormous public pressure to shut down again at least for a little while. Hopefully it won’t get to that point in Florida – and if they can successfully protect people in nursing and retirement homes from all the young people boozing it up at bars, maybe it won’t – but I’m not optimistic.

      • Anon

        IDK how it was in NY regarding places outside of NYC (ie, NYC vs Rochester, for instance), but the current COVID situation in south Florida is completely different from what’s happening in, say, Fort Walton Beach. In spirit, the policies in place allow for some local nuance, which is good. The measures needed in Miami would not be appropriate in Tallahassee at this time. In practice, though, people can be selfish idiots and this is why we can’t have nice things.

      • OP

        OP here, what other models are you looking at? I thought IMHE was considered the best, despite its obvious limitations so I am definitely interested in checking out others. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      A full 2.5 month shutdown hurts the economy more because it’s a full shutdown, not a short fake shutdown with everything wide open so people are out and about buying. Yet the full 2.5 month shutdown is the RIGHT thing to do because it “knocks out” the problem — not that it can ever be knocked out without a vaccine but it dials it back to manageable levels so that what emerges going forward is smaller hotspots that can be dealt with quickly to contain spread.

  30. Lunch, No Fridge

    What are some good, filling lunches that don’t need to be refrigerated? For myriad reasons, I don’t have access to a fridge at work right now, so I’m wary of bringing my usual salad with grilled chicken and leaving it out on my desk for 4 hours until lunchtime. Any ideas? Should I do the elementary school standard of PB&J?

    • Monday

      If you have one of those neoprene-type lunch bags, with or without a cool pack in it, 4 hours in a climate-controlled office is fine. This is what I do.

    • Anon 2.0

      I would get a well insulated lunch box and use an ice pack to keep things cold.

    • Anonymous

      Get an insulated lunch box with an ice pack. This is what I used pre-pandemic because we had theft issues in the communal fridge.

    • Carmen Sandiego

      Could you just bring your normal lunch with one of those reusable gel ice packs? In even a slightly insulated bag, I think that should keep it cool enough for 4 hours.

    • Anon

      Get blue ice packs and an insulated lunch bag. I never used the refrigerator at work, when I was going to work, because it was either packed to the point I couldn’t get my food in there, or it was totally septic because people didn’t clean it. I took salads all the time and as long as they were in the insulated lunch bag with a blue ice pack, and I kept the zipper closed, they stayed cold till lunch.

    • Tessa Karlov

      Have you considered a lunchbox with an ice pack or similar cooling/insulating system? Otherwise, I love making myself “adult lunchables” with sections of a bento box for different foods (hummus, baby carrots, almonds, etc.) and a small treat.

    • Go for it

      Ice packs have worked for me for years. Salads, yogurt, meat based leftovers all stay fresh. If your workplace has no AC keep lunchbox in shade.

    • anon

      Avocado sandwich? You can take an avocado with two slices of bread. Then at work, you can halve and scrape the avocado onto the bread, sprinkle some salt and pepper, and voila.

    • Mal

      You could always used canned chicken/tuna as your protein. Fruit and veg can typically do fine refrigerated for a while.

Back to Top

About

Work with Corporette®

Serious Stuff

work fashion blog press mentions