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Lightweight sweaters are essentials for summer AC and chilly evenings, and this gorgeous cashmere/linen blend is now marked 70% off, with tons of sizes and colors left. My favorite is the light blue, but the gray, black, and white all look like they'd be great basics. The sweater was $229, but is now marked to $69 at Nordstrom. (Oh! This classic 4-way sweater is now down from $98 to $29, in similar colors.)
In FACT, crazy sales continue at Nordstrom, including this $445 jumpsuit down to $135, this peppy gingham Smythe blazer also 70% off, and if you're a fan of the washable, cozy Wonderstretch pants there are several that are 65-70% off (lucky sizes only, though).
Psst: Wishing everyone wellness this Juneteenth! Lifehacker has a 2-minute video with the history of Juneteenth, as well as the details on an online Juneteenth market featuring Black-owned brands; The Atlantic notes why it has “always been worthy of celebration.” Looking for idea for how to celebrate? Here are suggestions from Juneteenth.org, The New York Times, Apartment Therapy, and Teen Vogue. (Here’s am interesting FB message on why “Happy Juneteenth” might not be appropriate for everyone to say; if anyone has other reading on it I’d love it!)
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Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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Dog Oral Hygiene
Vet just told us they found tartar on our dog’s teeth and she needs a $1,500 cleaning. We generally like our vet but since a recent change of ownership they’ve been very eager to book things and do preventative tests that we don’t think are necessary and have never done for other dogs we’ve owned. I know oral hygiene is important and can lead to nasty things if not handled, but I’m looking for a gut check here.
What does normal oral care look like for your dog and has anyone done a cleaning like this before / how did you arrive at the fact it was necessary? Our pup is a rescue but we estimate to be 6 years old, lab/boxer mix, ~65 lbs.
Anon
It’s totally reasonable to call around to see what the same cleaning costs might cost elsewhere. That sounds very high to me. I would definitely want an anesthesiologist with a good track record, but I’ve found that “you get what you pay for” doesn’t exactly apply to vets. Sometimes the ones who charge the most are also willing to put $ above best practices.
Anonymous
I’d call around on pricing. But it’s normal to need a cleaning every 5 years or so. Most will either quote a range or give you a high end after seeing the dog since they may need to remove some teeth while they are in there.
Digby
We do annual cleanings for our dog, and the last two years, the bills have been in the $400 range. She’s ten, weighs 80 pounds, in good health, goes to the local office of a national chain.
Anonymous
My dog gets his teeth cleaned. The first time we did it at the vet and it was crazy expensive. He was put under for it and he didn’t handle it well. Since then, we have had it done by a facility that does it without anesthesia. It is much less expensive but more importantly, it isn’t as hard on my dog. So you might want to see if anyone in your area has that as an option. I also brush my dog’s teeth everyday — so I am that crazy person!
Carmen Sandiego
That sounds like a lot to me. We just had our dog’s teeth cleaned this spring, and it was maybe $500, including the pre-cleaning bloodwork that they require and the anesthesia. (Caveat that we probably had her teeth cleaned 2-3 years ago, so this wasn’t her first cleaning ever. Not sure if that affects the price.)
Anon
The biggest cost here is anaesthesia. Heavier dogs will cost more at the same practice.
Formerly Lilly
For two yorkie-mutt pound puppies who had bad teeth when we got them, it’s annually and just over $1,000 for both. This is at what is a high priced vet in VCOL area. Note that if their breath stinks they probably need dental care, and just like for people, bad teeth significantly increases the likelihood of cardiac issues. If their breath is okay, I would do a visual inspection to check for tartar, which will be pretty obvious. If no bad breath and no heinous tartar, I’d just keep an eye on it.
Formerly Lilly
VLCOL. Autocorrect is annoying. I have been told by someone with nursing homes that we are in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the country so I’m sure that’s a factor in the cost of services here.
Anon
I know this is a tangent, but the cost of nursing care doesn’t necessarily correlate`with the cost of housing (which is how most people define LCOL vs HCOL area). Nursing home costs depend on local real estate prices, but also on how much demand for care there is locally and the availability of skilled workers to provide care. We paid significantly more in a rural, LCOL part of New England than we did for center city (downtown) Philadelphia, and the quality of care in Philly was much better.
Anon
My vet always looks at my cat’s teeth at his annual visit and comments that they have a little tartar
Then my vet hired a veterinary dentist and now the vet says my cat’s teeth have major tartar and need a $1400 cleaning.
Too coincidental for me.
Anon
My vet is really reluctant to order anesthesia just for dental cleanings. He once cleaned my cat’s teeth when he was already under for a more important procedure (getting a small lump removed and biopsied–I’ve read even that procedure is considered overly aggressive/a cash grab by some vets, but I was okay with being proactive because of the location). The vet hasn’t yet seen a need for cleaning my other cat’s teeth who is the same age (thirteen).
Cats’ dental problems can become the stuff of nightmares (“tooth reabsorption”) and extreme sources of pain. So there’s definitely an argument to stay on top of things, especially if feeding a food that contains more carbs than a mouse or a bird. But there’s a level of intervention that’s well supported by evidence, and a level of intervention that I guess could be considered Cadillac care for someone who just wants their cat to have sparkling teeth, if it weren’t for the risks involved.
AnonMom
I clean my dog’s teeth myself. I use an old toothbrush, dog toothpaste that smells like vanilla, and a scaler to scrape off any build up. It takes 5 minutes every couple of days. He is a 95 pound German Shepherd who is not at all bitey. The vet compliments him on his teeth every time he goes in.
Anon
We were quoted $1500 to do both our dog’s teeth a couple of years ago. My mom found a vet that does cleanings for $450. Definitely call around; prices seem to vary widely.
FYI my understanding after talking to multiple vets (because one of our dogs has multiple vets as he has health issues) is that by 7 years old, all dogs need their teeth cleaned. Ours are 6 so we’re planning to do cleanings on both of them sometime in the next year.
Anon
It usually starts at $450 for my dog, with increases based on any extractions. If you decide to go for it, make sure you request NO KETAMINE in the anesthesia. Recovery time is minimal and much easier on the animal! Ketamine gave my epileptic dog seizures.
Anon
Banfield’s health plan includes a free cleaning. We pay $50 a month and it also includes health checkups and bloodwork. Note that pricing depends which region’s Banfield you signed up through. You have to do it in person but I’d call around, sign up through the cheapest and then you can move wherever keeping the same coverage. The first cleaning we did pay $500 extra for all the pulled teeth but it’s been smooth sailing since.
Anon for this one
For those whose employers are requiring folks back in the office, have any of you had someone in your office test positive for covid? If so, how was it handled? Did you continue to go into work or insist on working from home?
Anonymous
Not what you asked. But I work at a company with two branches. One is open (limited capacity but honor system for using wipes and CEO thinks no one needs to wear masks because, you know, freedom), and the other where I am is located in an urban area and is WFH through next month because so many folks take mass transit. My office mate (normally two of us in one office) tested positive earlier this spring and I was so grateful to still be at home. After negative tests and feeling totally normal again, she then found out she tested positive again recently (needed a test as part of standard protocol before a procedure, not because she felt sick in any way). She was told she may be a super spreader who will test positive for months. This scares the living daylights out of me. I live with someone severely immunocompromised. I’m hoping this will get the CEO to recognize that COVID isn’t some overblown panic from folks. But I’m doubtful.
Anon
This is terrifying. I’m sorry for you and sorry for your coworker — I would be so stressed about every little thing if I thought that I always had the possibility of spreading it to someone else.
Anonymous
I’m actually surprised the person down thread who tested positive said she was considered non contagious even if she tests positive again. I don’t want to out myself or company. But the procedure my coworker needed was induction. And she’s having to have it done in isolation with her OB working with infectious disease specialists, and she won’t be able to be near the baby for at least 10 days.
That doesn’t sound like “non contagious” if you test positive again to me.
Anon
That’s so sad. I’ve seen conflicting info about whether mom’s who test positive should be separated from their babies or not. I can’t imagine.
I also have a major fear of the nasal-pharyngeal test. I will do and have done the regular nasal one but that’s not as accurate. I’ve postponed some medical stuff that’s not super urgent because I won’t agree to have the nasal-pharyngeal test and it is required prior to the procedures. I wonder if someone had a procedure that could not be postponed, like they were having a heart attack or in labor as in your co-worker’s case, if they could refuse testing and still get medical treatment. I know it would be super selfish but I’m not kidding when I say I have a phobia. I think I would need to be knocked out for them to be able to do the test.
I read online about a developmentally disabled boy who died of COVID and his mom refused testing so she could be with him. If she tested positive she would have to leave. I’m surprised they let her stay with her refusing testing.
Sleep
To Anon at 5:58….. It sounds like this is a risk that is worth overcoming, for your personal health and the health of those around you. You up for trying something? Have you talked with your doctor and psychiatrist about it?
Have you thought about asking your doctor for a one time dose of ativan to get you through the test, maybe taking tylenol before it too? I’m certain you have experienced more painful and unpleasant things in your life, so you just need a little help decreasing your anxiety.
A lot of people take ativan before going to the dentist, flying, an MRI or other similar things with good success.
And I’m completely understand the mom that refused to test her disabled son so she could stay with him. I take a care of a severely disabled family member, and if he was isolated in the hospital with no caregiver with him (I stay with him around the clock when he is in the hospital) – he would develop complications rapidly and his chance of dying from Hospital acquired mistakes/accidents/poor care is very high. I am also amaze they let her stay with him without testing, but if that was the option I had I would grab it. So we are very worried right now …. This is such a horrible time. Many like my family member are developing complications of their chronic medical issues from being home bound/no therapy/no in person doctor visits and having difficulty getting medicines and medical supplies due to hoarding/hospital priorities/backorders and supply chain issues.
Anonymous
Also, I realized I used the wrong term. She told us super “carrier” not spreader. Not sure if that makes a difference.
Anonymous
My employer is requiring anyone who has been exposed to COVID outside of work to self-quarantine for 14 days, so I’d imagine they’d require the same thing for anyone exposed at work.
Z
My dad went back to work on Tuesday and Wednesday this week. On Thursday they found out his cube neighbor tested positive. She had gotten tested that week because she had surgery scheduled, she wasn’t showing symptoms.
No one was wearing masks, the office did not move desks around to put more space between people.
The office is now closed indefinitely and my parents (in their early 60’s) are very anxious and are getting tested tomorrow.
anon
Yes, I actually tested positive earlier this month. My company requires a letter from your doctor advising it is safe to return to work.
My case was extremely mild/borderline asymptomatic. My doctor applied the CDC guidelines + tacked on an extra week, so I will be returning next week. The heath department for my county, as well as my doctor, do not recommend retesting because many people continue to test positive for months but are no longer symptomatic or contagious. There are also a lot of false negatives, so relying on a negative test could also result in someone ending quarantine too soon.
anonBerkeley
my employer is super careful, which is in line with the (by comparison) very stringent public health restrictions here in Berkeley. We’re mostly working from home, with a small fraction of employees going in, and only for work that needs to be done from work. If you are exposed or diagnosed, you’re told not to come to work, and paid leave options are available (also for people who have kids at home). We were informed a while ago that an employee had been at work and tested positive in the same week. They said the building or floor where that person was will be closed for cleaning, and people in close contact will be notified that they could have been exposed. Masks and social distancing are mandatory (also per county guidelines), and safety of employees is put first consistently.
Anonymous
We had 2 people and it was not officially communicated due to confidentially reasons. I only know because i am friends with them. The other 50 people in the office have no idea.
sleep
That is awful.
I would leak the information. Quickly.
This is how pandemics explode.
Horse Crazy
Paging Amber who asked about botox for migraines – I’ve never tried botox, but I take Elavil nightly and it really helps with decreasing the frequency of migraines and making them less severe when I do get one. Highly recommend. I also take Maxalt when I get one, which is the most helpful of that type of drug that I’ve tried. Good luck – managing migraines is so awful.
Amber
Thank you so much! I am seeing my headache doctor next month and taking notes on things I want to look into and ask about so I appreciate the input!
Babby Associate
I am really struggling with communication with my boss right now. I try very hard to see how the missteps could be my fault, but at the same time I’m also feeling this is very much a two-way-street and the struggle is also with him.
Ex: We have a conversation, I think I’ve got the deadlines right from him, what does he want, what are the deliverables… and then a week later it’s magically overdue, he’s very disappointed, etc. “I’m not communicating with him”
I’m trying to not roll my eyes and chalk it up to white male partner mediocrity. I also know that Covid/WFH situation is not helping.
Advice or phrasing I can use with my boss to move beyond this?
I feel like I’m fighting with a boyfriend lol.
Anonymous
Follow up with an email ‘thanks for the call earlier. Based on our call, I’m calendaring the following dates/deliverables. Please let me know if anything changes.’
NYNY
This. The whole point of managing up is making it easy for your boss. Document conversations, but when you send the documentation, frame it not as a gotcha, but as “I want to be sure we’re on the same page.” Your boss – whether a good one or a bad one – likely has a lot more on his or her plate than you know about, so the way to keep your priorities on the radar is by owning them and escalating in a way that makes it easy to say yes.
Anonymous
Practically speaking, you may be able to head this off in a simple way. After the assignment conversation, send him a brief email confirming the scope, deadline, format of the work product he requested.
Then if he later contradicts himself, you can point to the email. Not to argue with him, but to say, hi boss, per my email, here was my understanding, can we chat about next steps to get you the work product you need?
Carmen Sandiego
Independently verify deadlines to the extent you can (i.e. check the scheduling orders, go into the file and read the email he got from the client (assuming he moves those into the file), check with his secretary to make sure that’s the date she has on her calendar, etc.) This is so frustrating, but this is what “managing up” is.
As far as the substance of the deliverable, (also incredibly frustrating, I know), it sounds like you’re already communicating with him on the front end, so other than continuing to do that, when you’re turning in the end product say I incorporated XYZ that you mentioned and put it in the format that you developed from ABC brief. I don’t know why but with my former (insane) boss, this seemed to work, as it reminded him it was *his* idea to do it this way, so of course he was very pleased that I took *all* his instruction. (Then eye roll when you’re in your office alone.)
Anon
Just an FYI for last-minute Father’s Day gift cards: Lowe’s donated a ton to the BLM movement, while Home Depot donated a ton to Trump’s re-election.
Anonymous
And yet HD is a better stock so I know where I’m buying.
sma
This is a misleading, at best, meme. If you compare their PACs, Lowe’s has actually given a higher percentage of their PAC’s contributions to Republicans than HD’s, but both give more to Republican candidates than Democrats.
SmallLawAtl
This is actually misleading. Both companies have PACs that give to to both political parties. Lowe’s PAC actually gave a higher percentage of its contributions to Republican candidates than HD’s did. HD gives more overall, which you would expect because they are bigger. Also, Lowe’s is not giving to BLM but to minority-owned business owners who are trying to reopen, which is a worthy cause, but not exactly BLM.
Anonymous
But does this reflect their values to the extent that we should switch companies or switch from Home Depot to Lowe’s vs moving away from both of them? There’s more context at the following link: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lowes-versus-home-depot-meme/
Anonymous
Home Depot did route all their PPE to medical needs (and as a donation too I believe) early on in the pandemic vs selling for construction work, etc.
Anon
I seem to have a lot of boxes of chocolate cake mix but don’t want chocolate cake. Does anyone have any recipes to use the mix, like brownies or cookies? TIA!
Anonymous
There is a cake box trend where you mix it with diet soda and bake it as usual. You might enjoy that.
Jess
What about a trifle? Because a cake mix is going to have a different texture than brownies or cookies, and I don’t know how much baking chocolate you’d need to add to the cake mix (on top of an extra egg or two) you’d want to get brownies. Basically, it’s got too much rise in it.
Or I’d make cupcakes and then glaze them with raspberry jam for a lighter, more summery treat. Or I’d experiment by trying to make an icecream cake roll, but that probably requires a pan you don’t have.
Anon
These look pretty good
https://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/cake-mix-chocolate-cookies/b181b72f-4126-4796-b851-e2be6b33a440
I would imagine you could easily add things like chips (chocolate, white chocolate, peanut butter) or dried fruit (shredded coconut could be great with these) to make them more interesting.
Anon
Or make these and invite me over!
https://www.yourcupofcake.com/cake-mix-oreo-bars/
Cookie Monster
Yes! My variation on this is: prepare the cake mix with the ingredients listed on the box, stir in Oreo pieces and white chocolate chips, roll into balls and bake at 350 for 10 min. So easy and delicious!
lost and dazzed
About two and a half years ago my little sister cut ties with the family.
She sent me a nasty message around thanksgiving last year and I blocked her. I’ve since unblocked her and would be interested in resuming a relationship with her. I have her phone number because I still pay her phone bill. I doubt she’s doing well financially and I keep hoping she’ll get back in touch (everyone in the family would like her back basically).
Anyway I know not to contact her, I’m just wondering if anyone has any resources for dealing with estrangement from family.
Anon
I would say therapy for all parties involved, but also listening honestly and attentively to why your sister felt she needed to cut ties, without getting defensive or arguing with her. Otherwise, what is the point?
lost and dazzed
Sorry! I’m not suggesting I reconnect with her at this time. I know why she’s cut ties with our parents and other siblings and with me.
I just am not personally doing so hot over the situation and wouldn’t mind some suggestions for me personally like a book or something. I miss her a lot. We did not grow up together but reconnected as adults and I miss her every day. She lived with me on and off for summer holiday etc.
There are a lot of things going on and I do not want to blame her but I think it would be fair to say that we had a difficult childhood and she is definitely dealing with the aftermath of that with more difficulty than I did. She struggled with it in early adulthood.
She did seek out help at a number of times and took a very long time to be taken seriously, be diagnosed and receive help. I would like to believe she is doing okay right now. She reaches out when she needs money and I always send it. It has been a long time since she asked for money.
I think cutting ties with our parents and our older siblings was probably very good for her. I have a relationship with everyone and honestly it has not been good for me a lot of the time. I was apprehended from the household and did not grow up with her or my older siblings and I don’t want to pretend I know exactly what she went through because I don’t but that should help explain that things were often not very good.
I used to feel that things were unfair given the differences in what happened to my siblings and I but that was over 15 years ago and I have let it go. I don’t dwell on it. My parents were not perfect but they have done their best to try and make things up to me. I email with my older siblings regularly and text and call my parents.
I’m fine to keep paying the phone bill, just mentioned that because if I really wanted to I could find her that way.
Anyway, I do see a counselor and they always recommend leaving her alone.
Housecounsel
I think a lot depends on the reason for the estrangement. What would your sister say is the reason she cut ties?
Anonymous
+1. My niece cut ties with everyone in my family to go live with the parent who was laissez faire about her complying with her diabetes health plan. It never made any sense to me but her view is strongly held there is nothing we can do unless at some point she tackles it in therapy and has her views challenged.
The Original ...
If you are open to listening to why she cut ties, it may be worth it to reach out and suggest that you’d love to listen if she’s open to helping you to understand her actions. You may also consider that she may be open to reconnecting with you but not with the others so you will need to decide how to handle that possibility. It’s also possible that she will choose to remain estranged indefinitely. You may need to decide if you want to continue to pay a bill for her or if you want to periodically reach out to check in or if she or you would prefer to cut ties completely and she can reemerge if she ever chooses. People don’t typically cut ties for no reason, so either something happened that is related to her mental health and/or something happened to her that led to her needing to cut ties to preserve her mental health. It’s odd that it sounds like no one has a clue why this occurred or seems to have seen it leading down that path?
Anon
This is an issue for a counselor. A counselor can help you process why she left (you seem to know why but you don’t accept it), help you manage your feelings, and can give you perspective on what “normal” is. You imply that there are some serious problems in your family but everyone misses your sister. You may not be fully aware of how bad those problems are.
Stop paying her cell phone bill. She hasn’t reached out in years to tell you she needs money, but you’re paying it. From a stranger’s read of it, you still want to be the saviour of a grown adult because she used to ask for help.
Anonymous
For those of you into ASMR and white noise – is there a playlist or app you like best? Can ASMR sounds (slime, whispering) be white noise or is it different? My sons (6 & 9)would enjoy I think but I’d rather not give them a YouTube playlist or something…
EM84
You will find lots of good ASMRs on Apple Music – eg ASMR Zeitgeist (he uses lots of props), WhispersRed, Ting Ting or GentleWhispering. I listen to them or audiobooks as a background while WFH.
lydia
spotify has a bunch — some are playlists, some are characterized as podcasts (but have no words). I like the podcast episodes because they’re usually an hour long, rather than just 3-4 min (so easier to loop without noticing).
Wannabe Compliance Attorney
I’m a litigator looking for a career pivot and have come across a job posting for a compliance attorney position that looks really interesting. Anyone here make a similar move and willing to share the differences/similarities/likes/dislikes? I’m also curious what type of background is desired for these roles.
Anonymous
I did. It wasn’t a good move for me, but you might try re-posting your question on Monday morning because I think there are several people here who did it and are happy with the move. My problems were mostly related to the specific office and what they wanted me to do. In the interview it seemed fine, but in reality I didn’t have enough work to do and spent my time doing data entry and copying and pasting into templates. But I’m sure not every Compliance office is like that.
Going to consultancy job
I work inhouse for a company and I always have been working directly for different companies more or less in the same sector but with a career change in the middle. Now I have been contacted by an HR department from a consultancy firm. I do not have more information about the job description but for me a consultancy firm sounds as working for different clients and hours and hours of work.
Any experiences doing this kind of change? pro-cons? Before answereing back with “thanks but not interested at all”
I am looking for a job change, but not sure if going to consultancy will be for me.
Thanks
Cat
From what I hear from people at Accenture and similar, it’s mostly WFH (rather than former travel demands), but you’ll get a lot of pressure from the business to turn things quickly or ‘cave’ to get a deal done. Legal can be seen as a roadblock, especially if you’re new and therefore it’s easiest to say ‘no’ rather than knowing how to interpret policies… vs positive part of getting a deal done. As years go by it’s easier.
Going to consultancy job
Thanks,
it would be exactly that kind of company. Friends that have made the change both sides have told me that for them would be more power decision in the client side and more specialized work and variety of projects in the consultancy side (and a really bigger check).
Anon
My husband has an annual work event in the area where my best friend and her kids live (a plane flight away from where we live). Last year, my kids and I went with him and planned to hang out with my best friend and her kids while he was working. My friend was super excited about the trip in advance and kept talking about how she would take time off work, keep her kids home from daycare and we would all spend the week together. When we got there though, her tone was different. She basically put the burden on me to plan activities (which felt weird, since I don’t live there) and when I didn’t plan anything, she went into work and sent her kids to daycare as normal so we didn’t see them very much (my kids and I met up with her for lunch a couple times, but the kids didn’t get to play together at all except on the weekend days when we arrived/left). It wasn’t an unexpected work emergency (which I would have completely understood), it was more just like, oh we don’t have anything planned so I’m going to go into work as normal, text me if you think of something you want to do. I guess I thought just hanging around her house watching the kids play together in the pool was something to do?
The event isn’t happening this year because of Covid but planning is already underway for next year, and I’m trying to figure out how to talk to her about this. I really only want to go if the kids are going to see more of each other than they did before. Is there a graceful way to talk about this and ask if she’s actually going to take time off work to spend time with us? Or should I just accept that she isn’t as invested in the friendship as I am? She otherwise acts like a very close friend (we text almost every day and videochat with our kids regularly) so her behavior at the last visit was kind of baffling.
Anonymous
I think a week is WAY too long for this type of thing. A weekend or Friday-Sunday is more than plenty. I think when people offer to take off work they offer it to do “real” events like going to a theme park or whatever — they don’t offer it to be able to eat pizza and swim in the pool as that’s something you can do in the evening or on the weekend. If you want to go I’d plan a 3 day weekend, and say “I thought on Friday – pizza + pool; Sat – BBQ in the evening; Sunday – we’ll take you out to dinner.” That way there’s a plan in place and then you can gauge how she views it. I also wouldn’t try to spend 24-7 together every day. Instead have one planned activity per day whether pizza or whatever and then if it’s going well it’ll naturally extend into you all staying for a while. If it seems a bit “cold” then it’s easy to be like — ok well we all need to get the kids to bed, so time to head back to the hotel.
Anonymous
Is she putting you in the family bucket rather than the guest bucket? My husband has an aunt we thought we really liked who traveled out to our area, stayed with us, but didn’t make any plans to spend time with us. We had cleared the weekend and had a list of fun things to suggest but she had no time for them. When we talked to her about it she was surprised we had expected to treat her, in her words, like a tourist rather than family. I guess you blow off family? We have not hosted her since because it was clear we were just not on the same page. I would talk to your friend and assess.
Anon
Hosting someone for a week straight of pool and BBQ sounds tiring, no matter how much I like the person. A week of vacation also sounds like a lot to just hang out, especially if she has limited PTO.
Instead of doing a whole week with her, plan a few days (maybe MWF) of theme park, water park, children’s museum, etc.
Anon
Agree with everyone else that a week is too long, if you can shorten it up. While her behavior was frustrating, I think it is also fairly common .. I have a few friends who definitely talk big talks about us all going on vacation etc., but then when the rubber hits the road of actually taking the time off etc. it’s unfortunately a different story. I’ve just over time learned who these friends are and tempered expectations, have back up plans etc.
Not that I’m condoning her behavior because she should have handled things differently, but just to put it out there… I live in a touristy area with a lot to do. When people visit, I am happy to offer some guidance if asked, but I do also think at least some of the onus is on them to do a little research ahead of time and tell me what sounds fun to them to do. I’m not a mind reader. Also, with kids involved you never know what level of adventure a parent with kids finds fun vs too much. It doesn’t sound like she lives in a touristy spot, but I do think providing some of the initial guidance of what you would like to do (even if it was to outline “such and such a day let’s hang by the pool?”) isn’t an entirely out of line expectation.
Finally, you never know what behind the scenes very personal issue may have cropped up at the time you were supposed to be there that made her kind of pull back from needing to be “on”. I can think of a myriad of things right off the bat as possibilities. Reading the post, that sounds to me like what could’ve happened. Maybe. That could happen before any friend trip, but something about getting away on an actual trip and temporarily putting them to the side is different than being in mostly your normal life/home and pretending everything is fine that was maybe just too much.
Anon
So, I love my friends very much but there’s no way I would be able to spend a week with any one of them, just “hanging out” and watching kids play in the pool. I’m an introvert and I would go into introvert overload pretty fast. I’d run out of conversational topics after day 2, probably. I’ve done trips with friends and gone to visit friends and what seems to work best is what your friend did – you figure out a few times to get together/things you want to do together; the rest of the time the visiting family does their own thing. I don’t think you intended to do this, but it seems like you expected your friend to drop everything and entertain you and your family while you were there. That’s not reasonable, and it’s not fair. And I wouldn’t have done it either. We love seeing friends on vacation but we don’t expect them to be the central focus of our time; we always have other things planned and other agendas so we don’t burden our friends. I wouldn’t take her actions last year as not being “invested” in the friendship. More that she also has a life and things to do, and a week is a long time to step away from those responsibilities completely.
Also agree that – no offense – I would not take a week of PTO to spend with a friend who came to town. I need that PTO for vacations with my family and also the myriad things my company makes me take PTO to do. My parents have gotten offended, in the past, when my DH didn’t take off more than two days to spend with all of us when they were in town – he only gets 12 days a year of PTO (which is joint sick and vacation) and his job makes him take PTO to go to the dentist (and for similar personal appointments). So 2 days is what he could spare.
I think an honest conversation is in order, and I also like the idea of creating a plan for three days of the trip that you can share with your friend, to see how she feels about it. Bring some ideas to the table, and I think the conversation will go well and the trip will work out differently next year.
OP
I didn’t expect 24/7 entertainment, but I thought she would take some days or afternoons off so our kids could play. We were there for over a week and the kids only saw each other for a few hours on the weekend we arrived, which was what disappointed me the most since our oldest kids are old enough (4 at the time) to really enjoy playing together and were both sad they didn’t get more time together. Is that expecting her to drop everything and entertain me? I guess? But I went there for the sole purpose of visiting her family, told her about the visit well in advance, she acted thrilled and said (unprompted) that she would take the week off so we could all hang out, so I don’t think it was an expectation that came out of nowhere. It’s not an area that I would ever visit if she didn’t live there, which she knows. I think it’s pretty different than taking a vacation that you would take anyway and calling up a friend who lives in that area to see if they happen to be available to get together – obviously in that situation your friend is not your main source of entertainment.
I hear you that PTO is an issue for many people (it is for me, which is a large part of why I’m reluctant to make this trip again if I’m not going to see more of her/her kids) but this particular friend has really generous PTO, which is an additional layer of this. She’s made multiple comments before and since about how she has so much PTO and doesn’t know what to do with it (their extended family is all local and they don’t take vacations), which was kind of hurtful to hear. I know I don’t get to dictate how she spends her PTO, but I guess to me it says something about the friendship that she talks about how she has more PTO than she can use but she won’t use any of it when I fly across the country to see her. It’s definitely her choice to make but I feel like it says something about how she prioritizes the friendship, you know? I took a week of PTO too (plus the travel costs) to see her, so it feels a little unbalanced. It’s not like hanging around suburban hotels and playgrounds alone with my kids is a great use of my PTO – normally when I use PTO we’re taking a family vacation to a destination that interests us or visiting family who spend a significant amount of time with us.
Anon
I don’t know where your friend lives, but if in a touristy area, she probably has a lot of people who want to come stay with her and see the area. Or people who are going to stay in the area but want her to drop everything and be tourists with them.
Both of these things regularly happened to me until I started being less hospitable. Sorry, I also don’t have unlimited PTO.
I agree with the others. If you’re going to see her ask if she’s free on a specific day and make plans for that day rather than assuming she will host you at her house and pool for 5+ days in a row (just wow to that.) You’re only invited to her house if she invites you. Otherwise make plans to do other things, like go to a park or a zoo, and invite her along.
OP
Just to clarify, I definitely didn’t invite myself to her home. It was her suggestion (in advance of the trip) that we use her pool. We refer to our kids as cousins and she said more than once that we would have a week of “Camp Cousin” for the kids, with a rotation of relatively unstructured summer fun like pool time, arts and crafts, “sports” (kicking a ball around), pizza parties, naps, etc. while we sat around and gabbed. I know that’s not everyone’s idea of fun, but it sounded fun to me (and super fun for my kids) and I do know a lot of moms who spend a week this way with their siblings or close friends who have similar age kids, so I don’t think it’s insane to think someone could enjoy this. She offered to have us sleep at her place, but I didn’t want to impose and since I thought we would be spending a lot of time together during the daytime, I thought it would be a good idea for us to get some distance in the evenings (plus my husband had to stay at a hotel for his work thing and wasn’t wild about our family splitting up). I was not wedded to being at her house – I would have been equally happy meeting up at public pools and playgrounds instead, so that was not the issue at all. In fact I spent the better part of the week at random playgrounds and indoor playplaces just trying to find something to occupy my kids, and she was aware of where I was and that she and her kids were welcome, but she chose not to come. It’s not a touristy area AT ALL (think like strip mall-y suburban area 50+ miles from the nearest city — not any place I or anyone else would visit without a reason). I would have been up for day trips to the city (which is not a “tourist destination” in the normal sense but obviously has more activities) and suggested it, but she said she felt that was too daunting with little kids (she doesn’t really travel with her kids at all and has a lower threshold than me for what’s doable with kids, which I respect). There’s really nothing in her local area that I know of, not even a zoo or anything like that, but I don’t think that lack of activities was really the problem, at least not on my end – I just wanted to hang out and going into the trip at least it sounded like she was on the same page.
Anon
I’m Anon at 10:56. The extra details are helpful. To be fair to you, all the responses chastising you about expecting a friend to take PTO off must have missed the part in the original post where the friend was originally enthusiastic about doing so.
While I hear you that a week sounds fun to you, I think given the outcome of the past trip wasn’t great, and every poster on here is agreeing that a week sounds too long to them, I think it is at least worth exploring the possibility that she talked a big talk but when it came closer realized how long a week would be she maybe decided that was ultimately also too long for her, but she just didn’t know how to express that (which isn’t fair to you b/c she obviously should have thought of it before you committed to coming). I do think if you go on this trip again, going for a shorter amount of time – given your past experience – is the answer here. It would also create more of a *call to action* on her part of seeing you when it feels like there is only a short window rather than a huge long stretch of time. Understood this would mean flying there with the kids but without your husband, which may be a deal breaker.
That being said, your extra info about where she lives would give me major pause about doing this trip again. YMMV, but I would personally not given the past behavior, if the downside is you end up filling time in indoor playgrounds in the middle of nowhere for a week. My vacation time & money is too precious for that (I know you get free hotel, but plane tickets add up). It would be different if she lived somewhere neat where the downside would be another trip to a cool city just without seeing her much again. (p.s. the location detail also explains why you couldn’t exactly come up with activities on your own as she suggested).
I would not take this as her not being invested in the friendship. People are weird about over promising and under delivering on taking time off etc., especially when it’s in their town where it doesn’t feel like a vacation to them. I also think she just screwed up with her overpromises, but rather than admitting that she put the blame on you (i.e. you not planning anything) which sucks but unfortunately also kind of human behavior.
I would focus on doing trips that are vacations to you both (either with family or just you two) or if she really is anti-travel, just you going for a “girl’s weekend” to visit once in awhile where you stay with her etc. Or just accept that this is the season of life where the two of you don’t see each other in person much.
OP
Thanks. I completely understand why you and others are saying 3 days might work better than a week, but given that she’s on the other side of the country and we have to take two long-ish plane flights each way to get there, I just don’t think it’s worth it for three days. The kids won’t even adjust to the jetlag in that short a time. So I think it makes sense for us to sit it out going forward, because as you said spending a week alone with my kids in the middle of nowhere is not a good use of my time or money. I wasn’t trying to attack my friend – I do think it’s what you said that she loved the idea in the abstract but in practice found it hard to use PTO to “do nothing” – I was just feeling defensive when people said I was rude for showing up at her house without being invited, which I would never do.