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I like this unusual pendant necklace, but I'm having a Working Girl moment — I hear Joan Cusack's Cyn saying, “but it isn't even leatha!” in my head.
I do think this is an absolutely gorgeous 18k rose gold necklace pendant necklace, and I think that the unusual shape is really distinctive — according to Bvlgari it is “born from the symmetrical union of two cabochons.” It's lovely and I think it could easily be an easy, stylish every day necklace that makes a subtle statement.
It is, of course, $4,100 — hence my Working Girl moment, because there are no diamonds or gemstones, just 18k rose gold. But it is really fabulous, and if $4,100 is nothing to you (some of the necklaces are $64,000!! — ooh, and this one is $172K), then go for it!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
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- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
More Gray Talk
Any other freaks of nature who have no grays in their 40s? Seems to be the conversation du jour both in person and online. Whenever the topic comes up I try to stay silent since it’s not my place to comment, but if pressed I’ll say I’m fortunate to have my natural color or something.
Anon
I only had 2 or 3 gray hairs throughout my 40s. Now 58 and maybe 20% gray at most. I have a picture of my paternal aunt shortly before she died at 92 and she still had a substantial amount of natural brown hair. Hoping I take after her. My own mother was almost entirely gray at my age.
Anonymous
I thought I was the freak of nature because I was completely white in my 30s. I know plenty of people in their 40s with few or no grays.
anon
Not me, but my mom didn’t have grays until her 50s. Her mom had only a smattering of gray around the temples even in her 60s and 70s. I unfortunately did not inherit that gene! I’m 43 and probably 30 or 40 percent gray.
Anon
I’m 44 and just starting to get a noticeable number over the last couple years, but it’s still less than 1%. I’ve never colored my hair and I have no plans to start, way too much work.
anon
If I could go back in time, I would not start dyeing my hair. If I want to grow it out now, it will be a massive pain that involves a significant skunk stripe.
Anon
And when when I mean noticeable, I mean noticeable to me. It’s actually like 10 gray hairs and my hair is dark blond/light brown, so I’m not sure it’s actually all that noticeable to other people unless they’re really paying attention.
Anon
I’m jealous! I started graying enough to dye my hair in my 20s. But, my mom made it to her mid 50s without any grays. My dad was fully gray by his early 30s though so I take after him.
Anonymous
You have clearly merited the best genes in life. Congratulations!!
Anon
I found my first gray hair at 26 (my one year anniversary in Big Law, which seemed appropriate!) but I’m 40 now and only have a couple more.
Anon
I had very few in my 40s. I think it’s my Native American heritage, which came from my mom. Mom was about 50% gray when she passed away just before age 80.
I’m in my late 50s now and 20-30% gray.
Same
I’m 45 and have no gray hair; it’s all brown. My mom is 70 and has no gray. My grandmother died at 95 with salt and pepper hair. I clearly got the good genes on that one.
Anon
I am 43 with reddish-brown hair and have maybe a dozen grays. They don’t bother me at all.
FWIW, my mother went very gray in her mid-30s and covered it up for decades. My dad’s grays were not noticeable until he was almost 60.
Brassy blonde
This is tangential, but my 68 year old MIL loudly brags that she doesn’t have any gray hair. Early on in the pandemic, her hair transitioned from brown with highlights to solid flat brown. Twice now, I’ve seen gray regrowth on the back of her head. It reminds me of the bad clip in hair extensions we used in the 2000s. We looked in the mirror and thought that we looked great with our long curls hanging down past our boobs. But the clips were jutting out of the backs of our heads and the yellowy blonde extensions clashed with our dark roots. Lol.
More Gray Talk
This is not that, I actually sort of wish I had a few grays just to fit in.
Anon
My mom is 77 and doesn’t have any gray hair.
Pep
One of my best friends just turned 60 and has not yet had a grey hair. As someone who started going grey at 19, I am completely jealous.
Anonymous
I’ll never know. I’m a “supernatural” blonde and intend to stay that way. LOL.
Anon
My mom was grey in her early thirties. My dad is 65 and still almost no grey.
Anon
I’m 41 and have a smattering of white hairs, but no greys, and definitely not anything that shows up.
Anon
Me, almost 50
Anon
My mom is 92 and has only started to get some grays in the past few years. She’s Finnish-American, and we notice that many Finnish-Americans seem to avoid turning gray even into their 80s. I, on the other hand, got my dad’s hair genes.
Anonymous
Lol what? Congrats on being pretty.
Survey Says…
Looking for some real world feedback on the Dyson vs Shark Air Wrap. Do either of these really work well if you have zero hairstyling skills? And is one better than the other? Assume money isn’t an issue.
Also, perhaps a dumb question, but if I am just looking for something to make my frizz-prone wavy hair look neat without too much damage, is this even the right product?
Anon
I can only speak to the Shark, but I LOVE it. I have thick but fine wavy hair that’s prone to frizz and is about collarbone length.
I mostly use the round brush attachment. I previously used the Revlon but I prefer the shark because it’s quicker and less damaging for my hair. I get tons of compliments on my hair when I use this attachment.
I also use it as a regular hair dryer and love how quickly it dries my hair. I cannot give myself a blowout with a hair dryer and round brush – that’s way too advanced for my skills.
I am still learning how to use the curling attachments, but I haven’t tried much. It seems pretty doable though.
Roxie
Same,
I love the shark and find it easy to use!
Anon
How many of you don’t allow your kids to stay alone with your in-laws but let them stay with your own parents? Is that fair? I’m not comfortable with leaving my kids with the in-laws when I’m not there. They do drugs, and I recently found out that mother-in-law spanked DH all the way up to high school for various things unrelated to behavior such as bad grades (an F was a certain number of spankings, a D was a certain number of spankings, and so on). I also found out she used to spank DH’s friends when they were over, so I don’t trust her not to do it to our kids (we don’t spank at all). DH says she would respect our decision + wouldn’t smoke with the kids over. I’m not so sure.
All this said, it feels unfair to say to DH, “I don’t trust your parents but I trust mine.” My parents provide quality care, wouldn’t hit a fly, and we need their help, so I don’t want to cut off both sets of parents completely just to make things “fair.” What would you do here?
anon
Uhh, I definitely would not let my kids stay with your ILs, either. It’s not about what’s perfectly fair.
Anon
I think it’s fair not to allow people with a history of child abuse to be alone with your kids.
Anon
While I absolutely am against spanking and would be furious / low contact with a relative who spanked my kids, I also recognize that the era and context in which your ILs raised kids was very different than it is now. When your DH was being raised spanking was accepted and likely somewhat common (depending on where he grew up).
The OP didn’t elaborate enough to know if DH was abused by the context of the time (he very well may have been, but if so I’d hope he would veto his parents babysitting), but in that era just spanking a kid wasn’t abuse (and legally, it’s still not considered abuse in the US).
It’s possible his parents didn’t know any better or spanked because that’s how they were raised or because that was the “normal” way to discipline and they’ve since come around and see that it’s wrong and harmful.
I don’t think having spanked a kid 30-40 years ago is an automatic disqualifier.
That being said, if they haven’t changed their ways or they did abuse the DH then no they should not babysit!!!
Anonymous
Abuse is abuse regardless of the laws at the time. Marital r@p3 was legal at one point too, and those men knew what they were doing.
Anon
I’m not saying it’s right or that it should still happen, but spanking was literally the discipline of choice across every culture throughout all of history until the last 40 or so years. Even if I’m appalled by spanking, I’m not judging 99% of all parents in history
Anonymous
And well-intentioned parents who were taught that you should spank thought they were doing right for their children, just like the move away from “healthy” tans to using sunscreen changed over time. You learn better you do better.
That’s not at all the same as a rapist and disgusting to even try to equate.
Anon
Eh I was born in the early 80s in a religious, politically conservative area (where I think spanking is generally more popular) and the majority of parents I knew didn’t spank. My parents described it as ab*se. I doubt it was really en vogue when her DH was growing up. Doesn’t make the in-laws terrible people but I disagree with “everyone did it back then.”
Anon
Adults should not hit kids, but comparing hitting to assault is wild to me. Parents in the 90s weren’t the moral equivalent of s3ks predators (?!).
Anonymous
This. I’m 50. I grew up in a home that didn’t spank but had teachers who would paddle you. I don’t believe in spanking. But it was definitely pretty common growing up. Child abuse is a really heavy term and I don’t think it should be tossed out casually–it takes away from the true seriousness.
Anonymous
Is assault better?
Anonymous
As someone who actually has been abused, please don’t equate widespread spanking advice from 40 years ago with assault. I don’t know if you think you are somehow trying to convince folks that spanking is bad (it is, duh). But you are actually trivializing my very real experience and those of others by trying to equate a well-meaning but poorly informed generation as the same as my abuser. Not the same. Knock it off. Go back to your bridge now troll. Real abuse shouldn’t be diminished this way. And rape very much shouldn’t be.
Same
I don’t have kids. But, with what you describe, I would raise the topic with DH. I would assume that he also would not be comfortable leaving kids alone with his parents who do drugs, so I have to think you’re in agreement on that topic. But your comfort with his parents shouldn’t impact your comfort with your parents. If your parents are safe, then you should be able to leave your kids alone with them. And if the in-laws ask about the different treatment, you can tell them the truth – you’re not leaving your kids with people who use drugs, just as you wouldn’t leave them with people who drink too much or had any other reason that they could not properly care for the childen.
I think you’re thoughtful for considering the optics of the situation, but I think his parents and your parents are two separate analyses, just as each person’s siblings would be. If I had kids, I imagine I would have no problem leaving my kids with my brother and his wife but never with my sis and her husband.
Anon
It sounds like DH wants them to babysit based on his pushback to OP. I think she needs to work with him to get him on the same page.
I think I’d limit your concerns when telling DH to be about corporeal punishment instead of the weed consumption. It is what is most important in keeping your kids safe and DH shouldn’t have any objection to that boundary.
Anon
I think it’s fair to set boundaries on who your kids are alone with, but you need DH’s buy-in. They are as much his kids are they are yours, and it needs to be a joint decision. If it’s you unilaterally telling him your in laws can babysit and his can’t, I could see it being hurtful and prompting conflict. Explain your reasons and get him on the same page with you, versus just telling him it’s not allowed.
Anon
If I thought they would spank against my express direction that would be a hard no. The drugs…assuming you mean MJ? If all else was fine that would not bother me, but since all else is not fine that is a hard no.
Our avoidance of the in-law reasons were different but DH was on the same page which was important.
Anon
+1. OP needs to get DH on the same page. Of course you can still have your parents babysit as long as DH understands why you don’t trust his to and are in agreement.
Anon
Some people are complete flakes on MJ though. Like “forgot to feed the kids” and even “forgot to pick the kid up” level flakes.
Anon
(I’m not trying to clutch pearls and don’t care about people being high around kids, but it’s different to me if the person currently responsible for caring for the kids is impaired at the same time that they’re watching the kids, same as with alcohol.)
Anon
I think if it’s the equivalent of “one glass of wine at dinner” it’s okay to be watching kids. If it’s the equivalent of an entire six pack then absolutely no.
Like I trust my parents to babysit and have a beer and be totally fine. I don’t trust my cousin to babysit and not get incapacitated from drinking so he doesn’t babysit.
Anon
I feel like I don’t currently know anyone who does MJ and still has insight into what is the equivalent of one glass of wine, though I definitely used to. Maybe this is what they say about it being stronger these days, or maybe I’m just not paying enough attention to notice when there’s no impairment!
nuqotw
It’s okay if it’s not fair. It sounds like your ILs’ actions have some consequences. That’s not to say this is easy…but you don’t owe your ILs fairness.
Anon
This. Fairness is not the standard here.
Anon 2.0
100% with you on this one. Given what you’ve written, I would not allow them to care for a pet mouse, much less a child. To heck with fairness when your child would be in danger of abuse.
anon
I don’t care about fair when it comes to my kids’ health, safety, and general well-being. Kids are top priority.
Anon
Me.
I don’t really care about what’s fair. My first priority as a parent is to protect my child, physically and emotionally. My parents are safe, loving caregivers whose biggest sin is giving our child too much ice cream. My FIL is emotionally abusive and also irresponsible (he gave my daughter a pill bottle when she was a toddler because he “wanted to see if she was smart enough to open it”). My MIL is sweet and more responsible than FIL but very spacey and often doesn’t pay attention to what’s happening around her. Thus my kid does overnights alone with my parents and has supervised visited with my in -laws. I don’t think DH loves that this is how his parents are, but he recognizes “fair” is not the relevant metric here.
Anon
So I have two thoughts:
You mention them doing drugs and smoking – do they use drugs other than marijuana? If they use harder drugs, that’s a hard no to me. If it’s minor marijuana use, I view that the same way I view drinking alcohol. Also, are they smoking or consuming THC in other ways (edibles or gummies?). I wouldn’t want my kids exposed to smoking. I would be concerned about properly securing edibles or gummies, since those look like appealing treats to kids. Is marihuana legal in your state? I guess long story short is that for me this is very, very nuanced and using THC isn’t all that different from alcohol and thus isnt an automatic no for me, but also isn’t NBD to me.
As for the spanking, I also think it depends a lot on their current views. I grew up in the 90s when spanking was normal but on its way out. So, I know lots of grandparents who spanked their kids because it was acceptable then but have completely changed their views and would never, ever spank their grandkids. I also know plenty of grandparents who probably didn’t change their views on spanking, but a) recognize that it’s no longer socially acceptable and b) respect their kids’ wishes and would never spank their grandkids because they’re their grandkids, not their kids so it’s not their decision to make. While I think the spanking other people’s kids is insane, I know older adults who did this (I presume with permission from the other kid’s parents but I don’t know), but they would never spank their grandkids because a) it’s not the 90s and b) it’s against the parents’ wishes.
However, if your in laws see a kid misbehaving in public and say something along the lines of that kid needs a spanking or this is what happens when parents don’t spank their kids, then I’d reconsider.
Basically, if you set reasonable boundaries for babysitting do you think your in laws would follow them? If yes, I’d be fine with it. If no, I wouldn’t be fine with it.
Senior Attorney
This is much more nuanced than what I just wrote, and I feel like it’s a much better response.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t leave my children with people who would use any THC or drink more than one drink while babysitting, or who might have even one drink and drive with the kids in the car or while watching them around water. We don’t take those sorts of risks with our kids and I won’t have any other caregivers taking them either.
Anon
So with the caveat that THC is illegal in my state, so it’s not commonly used among parents so my knowledge of it is limited to friends sharing a joint in college.
That being said, I guess it’s important to clarify your expectations re: substances with relatives. No one in my family is a problematic drinker and everyone is responsible when in charge of kids or driving, but I don’t limit myself to one around the kids and wouldn’t expect grandparents to do the same. I also drive my kids / supervise them around water after one drink and am fine with my parents / in laws doing the same. But my spouse and I have years and years of seeing our parents drink responsibly and not push limits when they are watching kids / may need to drive. I’ve also (as an adult, no children around, no one driving anywhere ) gotten quite drunk with my parents.
Anon
I hardly see a second beer with kids around as taking a risk, but you do you.
Senior Attorney
OMG no way would I leave my kids with spankers/stoners. That said, I would expect your DH to understand completely, right? Surely he doesn’t agree with the spanking part, at the very least. If he doesn’t agree, I always feel like in a marriage, one “no” vote should prevail on pretty much any major issue, so if you are a “no” to “kids alone with these grandparents,” that should be the deciding vote and shouldn’t impact the ability of the other grandparents to be alone with the kids.
nuqotw
+1 on the “one no vote” thing – very well put.
Cornellian
My friend Michael calls it the “safer parent wins” rule in his marriage. Whoever has the more conservative take wins if they can’t agree.
If you are talking about MJ
My parents were mega users of MJ, and highly awarded elementary school teachers. Like multiple national awards, and parents fighting to get their kids into my mom or dad’s classroom.
I never saw them smoke, and to this day haven’t smoked or used myself. And back then MJ was actually illegal.
Senior Attorney
Heh I kind of love this.
Anonymous
My highschool science teacher (who had a PhD and was universally loved) was a MJ user and grew some crazy plants in his back yard. No one knew.
HSAL
My in-laws don’t get my kids overnight but my parents are on night four alone with my three kids. My husband passed away last fall but it was something we had agreed on well before. I’m not worried about fairness BUT I agree with the comments that you guys should be on the same page. My parents were spankers when I was little but they know I don’t spank. Everyone just needs to follow the rules, and it’s fine if yours are no smoking/impairment and no spanking. If they can’t follow the rules that’s the issue.
anon
I’m sorry to hear about your husband. I wish you and your kids well, and hope your parents are near to help. It sucks.
Anon.
I think there are two aspects to your question:
1) Are the in-laws fit enough to leave your kids with them?
2) Do you trust they will care well for the kids and not cause harm?
As for 1), there are a lot of circumstances where fitness is impaired – drug and alcohol abuse, old age, mental or physical health circumstances, to name a few.
As for 2), and even without factoring 1), what is the general risk when leaving the kids in their care (e.g. will kids get hurt either directly by the in-laws, or indirectly because they are either neglected or thrown into unsafe situations – think pool safety etc).
In your situation, I think both 1) and 2) count against leaving your kids in their care.
For what it’s worth, my in-laws are older and we are entering a phase now where they are neither physically nor mentally fit enough to care for our kid for an extended period of time. For example, I do not trust them to react well in critical situations (e.g. traffic safety, house fire, pool, playground injuries). They do not abuse drugs or alcohol, nor are/were they abusive, but we are adjusting/limiting activities they do alone with our kid to those where we feel comfortable with the risk.
Cerulean
The only fairness you should be seeking here is what is fair to your kids.
Cb
My son goes to my parents on his own but not to my in laws and it’s definitely a drama. My parents live rurally, are 10 years younger, have a room set up for him. My mother in law lives in a major city, is in denial about her bad eye site, regularly gets the wrong bus or train because she can’t see or gets flustered. When she visits, she walks him to school and my son’s appointed himself “grandmas extra eyes” because even at 6, he knows she can’t see. I just have a nightmare about them being in King’s Cross and people panicking and her not being able to respond because she’s so confused.
Drugs and physical punishments would be an absolute no.
Seventh Sister
I’m in that boat, but it was my ILs who caused us to make that distinction. They had one of my kids over for a few days two summers ago and unloaded a bunch of really inappropriate stuff on my kid. Nothing physical, but disturbing enough that our kid called us in tears. Frankly, they are lucky to get supervised time with my kids now.
Anon
This ain’t about fairness. It’s about basic, basic standards for who is around your kids.
Anon
Isn’t not ain’t. Seriously autocorrect….
Anon
Ain’t works too
Peloton
The question in your first sentence is not the relevant question. The question is “do you let your children stay with people who do drugs,” and obviously the answer to that is no.
Anon.
I would say that many Boomer aged grandparents have mellowed out and would never treat their grandkids the way they parented their own children. You owe it to your children to have a fair and frank conversation with their paternal grandparents about your concerns.
anon
My decade-old hairdryer is on its last legs. What is everybody loving these days? I’m not sure I want to pony up 400 bucks for a Dyson but would be willing to spend up to $200. I have fine, straight hair but a lot of it. (And I suppose I could justify the cost-per-use of a Dyson or Shark but it also seems mildly ridiculous for my hair, which is pretty easy to manage.)
Anon
I have similar hair and I love my T3 featherweight
Anon
I’ll add that I got it nearly half off at the Nordstrom anniversary sale last year, if you can make it that long to see if they sell it again
anon
Ooh, that’s good to know. Thank you!
Anon
Sometimes Costco has theT3 for a good price. I don’t know if it is currently stocked.
Anonymous
I think there is consensus on this and the Rusk W8less. Babyliss is my third choice. For reasons, I own all of these.
Anon
I got one of these at Costco, although it was a few years ago.
Anon
I love it until it died 6 months later, and my second one did too. I’ve had the best luck with the dry bar dryer.
Pep
Dyson sells factory refurbished hair dryers (and other Dyson appliances) on its website. That’s how I got mine back in 2020. It still runs like a champ!
(put “refurbished” in the search bar and it will bring up everything they offer in that category)
anon
If you have thick or holds on to water hair, Sedu Revolution on Amazon. I have the fancy, trendy options and keep coming back to it.
Cat
I still love my Babyliss that is that age and going strong. Runs around $75.
Anon
Amika
Anonymous
I’m still wrapping my head around this morning’s conversation regarding beauty and aging. I can totally understand not caring about beauty or fashion. But then why would you care about being characterized as dowdy or frumpy? If your hair is gray, and you never buy new clothes and you hate makeup and getting your nails done surely you have other things you care about more than the way you look. What is all the hurt about? I truly love beauty treatments and grooming and I enjoy style and clothes so I love doing it but it’s a lot of time money and effort. I’m not quite understanding the mindset of opting out of nearly everything and still expecting to present as well as someone who puts the time and effort in. I get that looks are not the most important thing but if you care about them at a certain age you do expect to put effort in, right? What have I missed?
Anonymous
What you are missing is that the people who have stopped caring also want to demand that other people stop noticing.
PolyD
Bingo.
Senior Attorney
Honestly why is that so unreasonable? If you do your job, why are you required to also be a fashion plate? Men aren’t under those requirements. (See, e.g., Boris Johnson and Bernie Sanders, below.)
Anon
Agree 100%
I am partially gray and would feel terrible to find out one of my coworkers called me dowdy and frumpy and ready for the senior special on a public forum.
I would hate to have a coworker like her, period.
I do care what I look like, the entire world does. Especially for women. There is no opting out.
Anon
You scored a zinger, but what you’re missing is that we haven’t stopped carrying. We care about different things and feel that beauty is expressed in different ways or that time and money need to go elsewhere for various reasons. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt sometimes when people tell you how shitty you look though. It hurts when people judge unrelated things like job performance or your worth as a wife or a mother based on the color of your teeth.
anon
I … don’t think that’s what the discussion was about at all.
Anon
You said the quiet part out loud: MONEY. A lot of us opting out have different ways to spend our money, and while we might wish to be able to have our roots colored every 6-8 weeks and go to the salon every week, that’s a heck of a ding to a normal family’s budget. I admit I don’t really care about designer labels or putting on much makeup, but I still want to present well. I don’t think anybody makes it a goal to be frumpy! We just wish there was a way to still be respected while not going broke on materials trappings.
(And tying back to our other morning convo, there are a lot of people at all income ranges who prioritize these things…but they are likely sacrificing a ton of savings, racking up debt, etc)
Anon
I missed the morning thread but I hate how gendered this is. Men are allowed to not dye their hair without being called names like dowdy and frumpy. Those words are exclusively used for wimen.
Anon
Well *I* for one call them those kinds of names. Looking at you, Bernie Sanders and Boris Johnson. Buy a gd comb already.
Anonymous
Haha Bernie sanders is for sure frumpy. I don’t think he’d be hurt if you called him that.
Anon
Yeah but there’s definitely a huge double standard. George Clooney is a “silver fox” when he’s papped in basketball shorts, but women are “allowed one flaw”, ie they can have nicely styled gray hair if everything else about their appearance is *perfect*
Peloton
George Clooney is widely considered to be one of the most, if not the most, handsome men alive. Extremely beautiful women are also allowed more than one flaw.
Anon
You might, but most people don’t and the media doesn’t.
anon
I don’t know that most of the commenters are opting out, but they sure do judge others who have. They are holding OTHERS to the high standards they hold themselves to and criticizing those who don’t care. That is the problem, IMHO. That is toxic AF and pretty darn misogynistic.
Also, some of us are never going to be raving beauties even when we put in some effort. As I get older (40s now), I’m sorta glad that I’ve always been average to slightly above average in the looks department. There’s … less of a fall from grace when you haven’t been treated as special for being pretty.
anon
I should rephrase. They are holding themselves to very high standards and criticizing those THEY PERCEIVE don’t care. Whatever it is, it’s an ugly mindset.
Anon
^^^^This.
Anonymous
I disagree with this. My mother always told me that for most purposes being very well groomed was as good as being beautiful. I’ve taken that to heart and it’s served me well my whole life but it’s become even more important in my 40s. It kind of blows my mind people just decide they’re too unattractive to even try.
anon
But that’s my point. Why are you assuming they aren’t trying? I don’t necessarily see hair color as a sign of being well-groomed or not.
Anonymous
Good point. I absolutely do see gray hair, unless it’s beautifully styled, or hair with outgrown roots as poor grooming.
Work Phone
Dang that’s wild that you consider a natural haircolor poor grooming.
anon
Seriously….
Anon
Agreed that being well groomed is more important that bring pretty or fashionable or on trend. Well groomed is the minimum and everyone should be well groomed. You can do this without hair dye or makeup or nice clothes. But it should look like you made some effort.
Anon
People can put in a lot of effort for the same outcome as someone else achieves with minimal effort. It’s easy to end up in weird territory with this (like privileging certain hair textures, the shapes and sizes better served by the retail market or even by tailors, better genes, health, etc.).
Anon
Curly hair is viewed as unkempt. Those of us who don’t want to damage our hair with heat are poorly groomed?
Anon
It’s not about being a raving beauty. It’s about being well tended. Or not.
Anecdata
I think the issue is that “well tended” requires A TON of time and money by some people’s standards, and yes, requires a lot more time and money for women than men. If you are enjoy doing that stuff, I don’t begrudge you – but I don’t enjoy it, have other things I want to spend time and money on, and I am aiming for “spend as like effort on this as I can before people judge me negatively for it”. That bar is not “clean clothes, showered, teeth brushed” for women. I understand that it’s not, and I’ve chosen to put in the effort /rather/ than deal with the consequences of being perceived as frumpy/dowdy/yaddayadda – and I own that choice, but I can still be ticked I had to make it
Anon
These attitudes hold women back who can’t afford all that, or who, no matter what “treatment” or money they throw at their appearance will never, ever fit the these ideals. All the effort in the world will never make me conventionally attractive. None of it has any bearing on my work ethic, intelligence, character or wit.
anon
Preach.
Anonymous
None of it has any bearing on my work ethic, intelligence, character or wit.
Agree but no one said it did. I think you look like you don’t care about how you look…which is what you want right?
Anon
I look like what I look like and what I look like doesn’t have much to do with how much time I spend on it. Most of it is luck of the draw or lack thereof. I wouldn’t dare ascribe motive to someone else or make assumptions as to what they do or don’t care about.
anon
YES. This is the part that is bugging me. The wild assumption that somebody with gray hair or whatever other quality is deemed unattractive “doesn’t care.” How could you possibly know that?
Anonymous
I think this is hugely helpful. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I put enough work and effort in that the woman who you see looks very different than the woman who wakes up in the morning. I get that others may not want to put in the time money and effort. And it’s less about the time to get ready than the years of trial and error. I don’t think lack of effort makes you a bad person. But I do think it’s always worth trying if you care about how you look.
Anon
Exactly – “doesn’t care,” “let herself go,” “doesn’t take care of herself,” etc. are all cruel, vicious assumptions.
Anon
If you cared, you would color your hair and take steps to be groomed. If you don’t then you don’t actually care. Or you’re not willing to put the effort in, which is the same thing. We do what we prioritize and care about.
NaoNao
I’m the ” OP perp” there and I’d like to own that my remarks towards the women I described were thoughtless and obviously any attempts to explain or soften them fell completely flat. I can’t prove I’m not sitting around “cackling” about 50 year old’s with gray hair and I don’t love dragging out an argument online because it’s pretty much useless, but I certainly have some work to do on my word choice or perhaps even my viewpoints in general, and I accept that my words/tone were insensitive. I believe that’s partly what people were reacting to, and I regret phrasing things like that.
Having said that, there’s this pervasive viewpoint that anything less than 100% supportive terms is misogynistic, cruel, “mean girl” etc etc and that, furthermore, anyone who admits they DO judge other people however briefly is a terrible, hateful person, regardless of the reality that we do judge other people, all the time, every day. My guess is it’s partly wishful thinking–that if enough people say/insist that not dying your hair or caring about fashion won’t engender judgement, it won’t. But it doesn’t work like that!
anon
Well, your comments were far less offensive than the one about women getting “one flaw” and that’s it. I really wish I could un-read that.
Anon
FWIW I didn’t read that as the commenter’s own opinion. She was summarizing what she sees as the prevailing view these days — why some women “get away” with certain things while others are looked down upon. She used “flaw” as a shorthand for “aspects of our appearance that are typically viewed as dowdy or bad in our culture”, not as her own opinion that these things make a woman “bad”
Anonymous
I saw it this way too. I found it really helpful.
anon
Yeah, that really doesn’t make it any better.
Anon
I wish I could un-read it too. I have a disfigurement that no amount of makeup or surgery can make a dent in. Too bad I’m already at my one flaw before we even get into my overall average looks and plus-size body.
Anon
That was a very good point and a realistic take, you can deny it, hate it, hate the patriarchy or whatever but it doesn’t make it untrue.
Anon
I think there was a disconnect between the folks who were expressing frustration at the narrow ideals for women, which are youth-centric and moneyed. Those ideals are real and they have real consequences. Some of the comments skewed toward, “That’s the system, so we have to play ball,” and others were expressing frustration at the system and trying to suggest that women ought not to uphold the standards they’ve been provided by judging other women’ appearances.
And I think many of us are in both camps, which creates a struggle. For example, when you say “If your hair is gray and you never buy new clothes….surely you have other things you care about more than the way you look” — yes, that’s true to a degree. But I also care about the way I look, and I care about it for various reasons (some good, some bad, some my own, some from outside expectations). So it’s complicated, and when people un-complicated it as either caring, enjoying, and being able pay for new clothes, grooming, makeup, etc vs. not caring, it’s frustrating.
Anonymous
? I don’t see this as an either/or scenario: hate it and opt out entirely or love it and put in all the time and money.
(I’m not sure who said they were opting out of it all and hated it yet wanted to be seen as someone who put in effort?)
Personally, I have fully gray hair. I wash and style it every day. I hate hair salons. I care about trends. I shop with care and get my clothes altered. I’m not particularly into makeup, so I do only the basics there. I’m not from a spa treatment culture, so those aren’t even on my radar. I would be hurt if someone called me frumpy. That’s me, a human with lots of inconsistencies and personal quirks.
Anonymous
Missed the morning convo but I’m going gray and with my brown hair it feels frumpy. I’ve thought about dying it but dying it a SINGLE TIME means I now have to grow out the dye (I have very long hair) or deal with roots, yes? No thanks, especially when I’m not sure I want the commitment and feel annoyed at the obligation to do it to still be relevant or visible.
Anon
I have long brown hair and am about 5-10% gray. I’ve been coloring the roots only with demi-permanent color (deposit only) with good success for about 15 years now. It’s supposed to eventually wash out, but in my experience it barely does. I do it myself, and it takes about 45 minutes every 6 weeks or so. Note: when I cut my hair, I sometimes save a small ponytail and experiment on this re: color and developer. It’s actually been simpler than I’ve been led to believe. I’ve had it colored in the salon twice (demi-permanent, roots only), and I actually prefer the results when I do it myself.
Anon
Rookie question because I’ve never dyed my hair but is it obvious in the store which is ‘Demi permanent’ color and do you just apply it with a brush and then wait and wash it out? I know I am heading in this territory soon and am clueless. Would welcome a link to a specific product.
Anonymous
I can not care about fashion and also think people shouldn’t be rude and insult me? How is this hard to understand for you. You don’t actually have to evaluate the looks of everyone around you and determine if they are hot or dowdy.
Anon
+1000. What some people don’t seem to get is that judging others for their appearance is a choice, not a necessity.
anonshmanon
I think this is where I come down as well. I get that this is historically a fashion blog, so these topics will be discussed and normally I tune them out. I also get that someone can write a post about coloring her hair, and besides this one topic of conversation, they also are an entire person with many different interests.
I am not immune to the pressure, and currently trying to find balance with some changes in my body, skin and hair – in fact, I am approaching this conversation through that filter of my own ongoing stuff.
With this whole preamble being said, there are other things that make a person, and I’d rather be described as funny, optimistic, reliable and resourceful, than being reduced to dowdy. I try to notice when I reduce my view of others to very superficial descriptions, and it is very gendered. I absolutely do think if we collectively ignore ridiculous beauty expectations, that does lead to a shift. Women are the worst gatekeepers in this regard (and therefore have the power to change). Half the men don’t even care if you shave your legs, and they don’t notice outgrown roots!
Anonymous
I agree there is a lot more to a person than looks. But I think everyone is being unfair to that op. You can be an everything you describe, resourceful and optimistic and whatever else and still look dowdy. That op was describing their looks in the particular context that it wasn’t a look she wanted to adopt for herself. She wasn’t reducing their entire being to their looks. That was the jump that other people made. And this is still a fashion blog.
anonshmanon
Maybe. She was saying that she does not understand why someone would make unflattering choices. It’s not that big of a jump that she thinks other people should invest more effort to look more attractive.
Senior Attorney
Honest to goodness, I meant it when I said I really and truly don’t care how anybody else dresses or grooms themselves. I was scarred early on by a mom who was all about appearances and at this point it’s easier for me to take the path of least resistance and do myself up than to try and do the work required to not care. And I don’t at all buy into the idea that women who “put in the time and effort” are somehow superior to those who don’t/won’t/can’t.
Anyway…it’s not just the money. It’s a whole lot of TIME. I am increasingly salty when my husband and I are going out and he jumps in the shower and shaves and combs his hair and is ready to go, while I’m spending all this time on hair and makeup (and don’t forget I shaved a whole lot more of my body than he did!).
All of which is to say that I guess I’m a product of the misogynistic culture and it sucks whether you play the game or not.
Anon
There was an awful lot of superiority on the last thread. Look, I’m glad for those of you who have the time and money and the natural attributes to really realize some benefit from products. That’s great for you. It doesn’t mean the rest of us are bad people if we can’t meet that standard for whatever reason.
Anonymous
Op on this thread. I just don’t understand the leap between saying gray hair looks frumpy and saying you’re a bad person because you have it. That’s the leap that I’m not getting.
Senior Attorney
Your last sentence is exactly what I was trying to convey. Either I failed at writing or you failed at reading.
Anon
Honestly, your posts on the last thread were…not great.
Anon
I agree with Anon but her context that she lives in LA is important. It really is a different world there than the Midwest/Northeast/Pacifyc Northwest. Even among non-Hollywood people there’s a pervasive focus on physical appearance (and visible displays of wealth, which I would argue all the beauty maintenance also falls under).
Anon
Maybe if you leave in LA, it’ll be more difficult to stop judging other women, but it’s also more important. “MAXIMUM one flaw” was rough.
Senior Attorney
What I was trying to convey is that is what I get from the world I live in. Not my personal belief, at all. Mea culpa.
Anon
My mother is ALL about appearances and it scarred me. (She actually makes an effort to comment negatively on the tiniest things, with the idea that it’s tiny being part of the point. “Look how NOT PERFECT you are!!”)
I went the other way; I can’t make myself notice. Reading here helps: I can recalibrate my expectations of normal, understand what looks good and what doesn’t, and basically get out of the “perfectly done up is a must” mindset while still hopefully looking professional.
Anon
I think what you are missing is the fact that the people who found the OP offensive are not just the “dowdy” ones who have given up. I hate the misogyny and mean spirited judgments of people like OP. It’s totally fine for her to waste her money on hair treatments, but making fun of her older coworkers is not cool and totally unnecessary. You don’t have to put others down to lift yourself up.
anon
Yes, THIS. It’s mean, it’s petty, and it’s 100 percent misogynistic. I, too, care about hair, makeup and clothes, but I do not assume that others need to follow my standard or else they’re frumpy, dowdy, old, etc. Honestly, I found the attitudes this morning a bit shocking and mean-girl, even for this site.
Anon
+1. If you see an older coworker, you COULD say “hm, I should ask her what she’s doing this weekend or if she read Reese’s last book club pick.” You don’t have to think, comment on, or denigrate her for her appearance. You really, truly don’t.
Nesprin
People can prioritize different things- a busy medical professional may not care about their appearance much, and someone else may find that their appearance is worth spending time on, and both of those are fine. Expecting people to treat you with respect no matter what you look like should always be a baseline, though it’s fine to recognize that appearance matters in some contexts and to some people.
When things are not fine: Judging people as less than because they spend less time on appearance. Requiring people to present in a certain way to be taken seriously. Setting stock in presentation over content. Believing that the worth of a woman in today’s society lies in her appearance.
Anon
+1000.
Moose
As a culture – a huge part of a woman’s perceived value is in her appearance – no matter who she is or what she does. And it sucks. And we all have to live within this construct. That’s what these conversations are essentially revealing. The struggle exists whether you want to go with the flow of beauty culture or resist it.
Anon
I just want to throw this out here in the spirit of lightness:
“ Dying is most used as the present participle of the verb to die, i.e. to cease to live. Dyeing is the present participle of the verb to dye, i.e. to turn a material from one color to another.”
It’s “dyeing” not “dying.” RIP
Senior Attorney
Or, to quote Spinal Tap, “there’s a fine line between clever and stupid.”
Anonymous
I think beauty privilege is a huge thing that doesn’t even relate to gray hair but does relate to the flaw convo.
I’m middle to average pretty at best, and day to day with WFH I look very hobo-yoga-teacher-who-maybe-lives-in-her-car. But when I have a meeting I make sure my makeup is flawless and I look stylish and expensive. Even a doctors appointment for me or my kids.
Anonymous
I was too late to join in with this mornings discussion, but I just wanted to say that whatever POV people expressed on that thread, and in this follow-up thread, is why I enjoy Corporette comments.
I think having a place to say these things, whatever POV, is very useful, and I’m very happy that you brought it up, OP.
One thing I would like to add to the how to go grey discussion, is to think about your skin undertone if you suddenly feel dowdy. If you want to do a tiny little thing, adjust for your skin. If you have a warm undertone and go slightly cooler grey, a tiny bit of warmth to the grey around your face will make a difference . If you have a cool undertone, a purple shampoo bringing out the cool shine could do the same thing. The idea is just to enhance your natural colour while they’re softening.
Anonymous
Men don’t have to shrink themselves down to skin and bone, dye their hair, and immobilize part of their faces in order to have a public facing job.
Anon
Honestly, not really true. The majority of successful professional men I know also fall into the “one flaw” rule.
Anon.
We are literally animals, specifically, mammals. We are hard wired to make split second judgments about each other based on appearance, smell, gait, facial expressions, etc. This is a fact of life and women who are more put together get some privilege.
Anon
I am starting to enter the age in which everyone is getting married, and I am really dreading wedding culture. It feels so consumerist and wasteful, and I resent the expectation that people spend thousands of dollars to celebrate you or else risk being a bad friend. My social group is a lot wealthier than I grew up with, and I feel like the expectations for price of gift (hundreds of dollars) and willingness to fly thousands of miles are totally foreign to me.
This is a lot pettier, but I also am dreading an upcoming engagement for a specific couple. We are attending a surprise party after the engagement itself, and I feel like there’s an expectation for us to act so happy and treat their love as the greatest thing to ever happen. I think the guy is a total dud (mean, toxic) and I really don’t care about their relationship. The idea of treating them as the main characters of the world for a night, and coming up with a ways to praise their incredible love story (meanwhile privately believing he barely respects her), and spending hundreds on gifts to celebrate them, just makes me feel exhausted. I’m in a happy relationship, so that’s not at play, but I do resent how single women don’t get celebrated the way people getting married do…
How do I change my grouchy mindset about all of this? Do you guys love weddings and engagement parties? What’s your attitude about it?
anon
Well, don’t go to engagement parties for a couple you can’t stand would be a good start.
As far as gifts go, do what YOU can do and are comfortable with.
It’s been awhile since I’ve been in the wedding stage of life. I will admit that it could be a lot of time, effort, etc. sometimes, but these were people I loved dearly. You do this because you love and care. And if you don’t, that’s a different question entirely.
Anonymous
I agree with this — you go to the ones you care about for good friends who you truly love. and yes this is the dividing line for a lot of friendships and that’s a good thing. Parenthood is another big dividing line – it’s just part of growing up. (Some people also just aren’t wired for long term friendships.) I think a friendship where you truly love each other and vibe with each other can overcome minimal involvement in wedding/engagement craziness.
Anon
It’s okay to dislike these events and to decline to spend thousands on weddings! This is as long as you don’t expect that from others (which it sounds like you don’t).
Just get the couples an acceptable present that’s not over the top and be present. You don’t have to give speeches or anything. Your presence there as a supportive friend is what they’re after. If that’s not the case, then I would reexamine the friendships.
As for the toxic guy, a good friend of mine married one. None of her friends really like him, but we are all extremely loyal to her and show our love by supporting her either way.
Anon
The best advice is a piece of longstanding wisdom from this board (I think SA?): an invitation is not a summons. You do not have to attend all these events and get gifts for every one. Wedding culture is a little bit toxic, so choose the friends and family you want to go all-out for, and politely decline the extra celebrations (and/or the wedding itself) for the rest.
If people think you are a bad friend for not spending thousands of dollars on their three wedding-adjacent parties, you don’t need them.
Same
This. I’m well past the wedding stage, but I took this approach. I went to a few weddings, sent gifts that I was comfortable with for many others, and skipped a lot of showers, weekends, and weddings themselves. Many times I took the couple out to dinner to celebrate their engagement or marriage as just us. My friends know I hate big parties and they also valued getting to spend time alone together at a dinner because most of the wedding festivities are large functions during which people don’t really get time to talk. I celebrate my friends and their life accomplishments, but that doesn’t have to mean attending a lot of wedding-related events.
Senior Attorney
I absolutely endorse this and I especially urge you to skip the parties and celebrations for the friends for which you appear to have such disdain. Nobody wants people at their wedding/shower/engagement party who do not, in fact, wish them well.
Anonymous
I really resent the wedding industrial complex for all the reasons you’ve laid out. I would decline the engagement party for the couple where you don’t respect the man. I would also come up with a personal policy about wedding travel and expenses. Each couple gets no more than $X and X days of your PTO, so if the wedding is local maybe you are willing to fly for the shower. Or maybe you will only ever travel for the wedding itself and will only take X days of PTO and spend $X on the flight and hotel. Give what you’re comfortable giving and don’t give in to the pressure to “cover your plate.” If someone hosts a lavish party that’s their choice; their guests aren’t automatically obligated to pay for it.
In the long run showing up for weddings and the associated events is not going to be what makes or breaks a friendship. We are still good friends with people who couldn’t make it to our wedding 20+ years ago, and no longer close with some people whose weddings we were in. If someone is going to drop you as a friend because you didn’t bankrupt yourself to attend her wedding in Hawaii, do you even have the common values required for true friendship anyway?
Anon
Okay, first of all, don’t go to this party. Seriously. Better for you, better for the couple to not have a guest that resents being there, better all around. Second, you don’t have to spend the money. Part of growing up is growing a spine and saying no when you can’t afford things. Don’t be like those people from that article in The Cut who go into debt rather than decline things.
Anonymous
You are free to be an adult in charge of your own life at anytime. You don’t have to go to expensive out of town events. You don’t have to buy expensive gifts. You don’t have to spend all of your time on other people’s weddings. Spend less time judging them and more time exploring your own agency in your life.
Anon
You don’t have to be friends with people you don’t like.
Anon
This
Anon
Don’t go. Seriously. You don’t have to.
Anon
Do you like your friend? If so, you’d show up and are happy and celebratory, no over the top or performative gushing needed. You get a gift and attend the events that you can afford. You ignore the fact that her fiancé is a dud, are excited for her because she is excited, and if the relationship doesn’t pan out you stay supportive of her.
If you don’t like her (and it sounds like you don’t), you extricate yourself from the friendship.
I’m 30 and in the heyday of weddings. I don’t love every relationship that’s getting married, but I do love my friends so of they’re excited I’m excited. I’m single and admittedly bitter about it, but I don’t let my issues rain on my friends’ parades. The vast majority of weddings and associated events in my circle are reasonable so I attend. I attend a few unreasonable ones and decline a few unreasonable ones – so far I’ve attended 3 destination but not $$$ bachelorettes and declined 2. I give gifts I can afford ($50ish for a shower or engagement party, $100-$150ish for a wedding).
Anonymous
You are right to be nervous about how this will play out. Marrying couples (and MOHs) are often very selfish and awful, with some real exceptions.
I opted out of most of it. The only thing I regret is RSVPing yes but not attending one wedding. That was wrong and I only really understood how much so in hindsight since weddings were really foreign to me before that (first friend to wed, never been to a family wedding, never daydreamed about one and contemplated cost and logistics). I went to lengths for three of my best friends, would have for the fourth but she ended up paring her wedding down to immediate family for various reasons, relieving me of even having to attend. I declined any others except for local, low-key affairs. For me, wedding season happened when I was in grad school and I was just very broke and unable to do anything but the minimum. Only one friend was sensitive to that. For one I stayed in alternate accommodations (Motel 6!) and ate cereal for a weekend when everyone else (close college friends) was in a block of rooms at a nice hotel. I’ve learned recently – many years later – they thought I was snobby and shunning them when I declined to join. I spent my very last dollars and maxed out my card to travel to and participate in another in which I was a bridesmaid, and was on the receiving end of screams when the bridal shop told the bride but not me, less than a week before, that the final payment didn’t go through and that they were not shipping my dress, which I had been expecting to arrive in time for alterations. Those couples got cards but no gifts. I just couldn’t do more. Some would say I shouldn’t have gone at all, as if my presence was not a gift but a grab. The third was nearby and the bride paid for almost everything for the wedding party so I spent what I could on gifts.
I hate the culture of punishing people for not attending weddings or not living up to expectations about gifting, expensive new outfits, travel, showers, etc. It’s really toxic and did lead to some people severing ties or drifting away. Their loss.
Do what you can and not more. Get a versatile outfit you can repeat wear for weddings. Buy gifts you can afford. Don’t sacrifice your financial well-being for weddings. If you get married yourself, show sensitivity and hold an easy-to-attend event that you can afford even if guests don’t “cover their plate” and pay for your honeymoon with large cash gifts.
It sounds like you are in a couple. That’s good. Despite the trouble I went to, the two brides I stood up for refused to hang out with me unless I brought a date once they were married.
Anon
You sound like a good friend and I’m sorry you had such negative experiences. I hope that things have turned out well for you!
Anon
I love weddings. My feelings on engagement parties varies on how much of a production people make of them. But my feelings do not matter. What matters are your feelings.
There are very few weddings that are command performances (e.g. your own immediate family). If you do not want to go and are secretly resentful, then by all means RSVP “No.” Just don’t tell people you think they are wasteful and consumerist. Send a gift you can afford if you want and your relationship with the couple justifies it. Do not if you cannot or do not want to.
The caveat here is that when you do not show up for people’s events, you do not get to be upset when they do not show up for yours. And there will be people who decide that your unwillingness to put in an effort to attend absent a solid excuse means you do not value the relationship. But given your tone, I am not sure how much of a loss you think that is.
Anonymous
I know this isn’t exactly what you asked but I really wish I had not attended weddings/engagement parties of friends that I KNEW were toxic for each other. I also wish I had had the friendship ending conversations about it. More broadly, I don’t love weddings but I happily attend the ones for true friends. Maybe you need to spend your social capital on getting new friends instead of attending the weddings of your seemingly delusional, self-absorbed current friends.
Anon
I think you’re really going to miss out on a fun part of life with this attitude. I didn’t get married until my 40s and eloped so I’m not coming at this from a “bride” point of view. The wedding season of life is the time when most of your friends don’t have kids and weddings and related events are just the backdrop to hanging out with your friends, which is fun. Bachelorette parties are girls weekends, weddings can be fun couples weekends away. They take you out of the doldrums of everyday life and you dress up and have a good time. Pretty soon most of your friends will have kids and retreat into their family units and you’ll be trying to organize a rare girls weekend if you’re lucky. Lifelong friendships also require being there. This is when memories are made and the foundational stories of your life happen. You can find ways to make it more manageable, you don’t need a new dress for everything, if you help plan you get to have some control over how far flung or expensive things are, etc. I wouldn’t opt out of your life.
Anon
I would actually skip the party and tell my friend privately, once, calmly and concisely, that the guy is a jerk who doesn’t respect her. If she listens, great; if not, support her.
I’ve been in my share of bad relationships and am getting out of a toxic marriage, and words cannot express how much I appreciate the friends who did the above. “Hey I think this is a problem but I support you no matter what.”
Anon
Slightly related to the engagement question above, but what do you do when your friend is in a bad relationship? A good friend of mine, let’s call her Jane, has been dating Jack for years now. Jane is a sweetheart, and Jack seems like an OK guy. There is no abuse, drugs, or cheating that I know of. But they just seem really miserable together. I think they want different things – Jane wants a wedding and kids and a “traditional” family and Jack seems on the fence. We attended a wedding with them recently and it was kind of awful – she was joking about getting the bouquet and he was rolling his eyes and mumbling oh God please no. They were being so passive aggressive with each other, and other friends who didn’t know them before that remarked that they seemed really unhappy to be there. When I see her alone, all she does is complain about him. I’ve politely said it sounded like maybe this relationship wasn’t bringing her joy and she kind of agrees, but they are still together. I guess there’s nothing else to do than listen and be supportive? It’s really hard to watch TBH.
Senior Attorney
Ugh this is hard. Maybe say “if you ever feel like you are ready to make a break, I am here for you 100%.” Beyond that, it’s hard to leave even a really bad relationship and I’m not sure what my friends could have said to have helped speed things up in my case. (Although honestly? I kind of wish somebody had spoken up at least once.)
Nesprin
You give your take once I’m always happy to listen but I wanted to flag for you how much it seems like this relationship makes you unhappy. I know you want X, and I’m not convinced Y is on board. You deserve so much and I hope you’re getting what you want out of the relationship. Let me know what you need
And then make supportive neutral sounds for the rest of the relationship.
Anon
What you see in public isn’t the relationship. If your friend comes to you for advice, be honest but not brutal. Focus on how you want to see her happy. Don’t enumerate the faults of her boyfriend. Talk about what she wants out of a relationship and where her needs aren’t being met.
This is of course if she comes to you for advise. If not, keep it shut.
I have fallen into the trap too many times of agreeing with my friends’ complaints about her boyfriend/husband, and then they get back together and I’m the bad guy.
Seventh Sister
As someone who was in a bad relationship, I will forever be grateful to the friends who loved and supported me before, during, and after that bad relationship. They had their boundaries, they didn’t excuse or defend his behavior, and they didn’t make me feel like crap once I came to my senses.
Anonymous
Another old lady question! I’m 49 and have been having trouble standing gracefully – I stand up fine but my hips and legs are so stiff that I lumber/frankenstein walk for like 5 steps. What can I do to help this? Stretching? Yoga? PT? Cortisone shots? Losing weight? Strengthening specific muscles?
nuqotw
Is it a balance thing? Muscle thing? Pins and needles? I have noticed that my limbs fall asleep more easily than they use to. I might go see a doctor if it’s a balance issue.
Anonymous
I think it’s just a joint or flexion issue… things aren’t unbending as quickly as they used to.
Anonymous
All of those things helped me in my late 40s (except cortisone shots). I’d startw ith stretching and doing exercises targeting the hip flexors (Google it), then strength is probably the next step.
Anon
Sounds like arthritis. Especially if it mostly happens after you’ve been immobile for a while. Definitely bring up with your PCP.
Anon
Can we not call 49 year olds “old ladies”?! Good grief.
Anon
This. Honestly it’s midlife…
Anon
I mean, that’s not true.
Anonymous
You are welcome to hang it up at 50. Some of us are thriving.
Anon
It isn’t just about the numbers; it’s about how we age. IMHO, midlife is about age 40 to age 65.
Anon
You need to go watch the “Beard the best you can be” guy on Instagram and watch his reels about not blaming your lack of mobility on your age. He has exercises and videos of 90-year-olds doing cartwheels for you.
anon
Do you exercise?
Some stiffness comes with aging.
Yoga has been incredibly helpful with my midlife posture issues and core strengthening
Anon
Yoga will do stretching and mobility and balance, so I’d start there. Whatever you choose, you have to do it as a consistent way of maintaining your mobility; in other words, it’s not a fix-it-and-move-on kind of thing.
Anonymous
PSA that Rifle Paper Co is having a sitewide sale today in case anyone wants to stock up on greeting cards.
Anon
What is the quality / sizing like for Saint and Sofia? I’m a S at J Crew Factory and a M at Mango for sweater jackets. No bust / big hips / bit of stomach, so the waist area is usually the choke point. I’m not broad-shouldered, but Mango was snug on my shoulders and a M is perfect.
C
I have no bust and am a pear with a bit of a stomach. I got a cowl neck top in US size 6 and it feels a little loose but that is helpful since I put on 10 lbs in the year since I got it. Seems okay quality but definitely synthetic. Have machine washed and air dried and worn several times and it’s still holding up. I have a J Crew Factory sweater blazer in small… that I actually wore today with the Saint and Sofia top. Have a J Crew top in size 6 that also fits. Never tried Mango so can’t speak to that.
txatty
THERE IS A VERDICT. It’s going to be announced in the next ten minutes
Anon
Guilty on all 34 counts!!
Jules
Wow!
anon
Way to go New York City!
Honestly, I was surprised they “allowed” so many lawyers on the jury…..
AIMS
It’s a point of pride in NY that everyone can serve. We used to have a system that excused most professionals and we had a big overhaul to get rid of exemptions. The Chief Judge who led the overhaul used to complain that she still never got picked for jury duty…
Work Phone
I’m sure Trump’s supporters will calmly accept this and move forward with finding another candidate.
Anon
I think sentencing will matter for any people left who may be on the fence. There are “never Trump -> fine, fine Trump” Republicans who will be put off if the sentencing makes it seem serious. If the sentencing is light, it will look like a politically motivated witch hunt where no one really cared about the crimes committed.
Anon
Do we think he’ll get jail time? Somehow I really doubt it
Anonymous
I don’t think so, but I am not sure anyone without a record would. I would like to see a period of home confinement, but that also seems unlikely.
Anon
It will be appealed and overturned on appeal. The Franken-verdict is so obviously unconstitutional…..