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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Burke Cowl-Neck Plaid Dress

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A woman wearing a sleeveless plaid dress and strappy black heels

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This dress from Simkhai is how I would want to dress for work these days if I were back in a formal office. The cowl neck, the draping, the gorgeous colors — it’s all working for me. I’m not sure how this would work under a traditional blazer, so I would probably pair it with something a little less structured, like a drapey jardigan. 

The dress is $725 at Bloomingdale’s and comes in sizes 00-12. 

Two more affordable options are from Antonio Melani (on sale for $166.83, sizes 0-16) and Tuckernuck ($298, lucky sizes in the plaid).

Sales of note for 1/15:

198 Comments

  1. I don’t think this can really be styled for work. Too dramatic and long for a jacket, and something drapey would ruin the line.

    It looks like the perfect thing for the society lady who organized a posh afternoon tea fundraiser to wear to the event with her Pilates arms visible.

    1. Agree. This is the type of dress when I try on, I think: this dress is wearing me, instead of the other way around.

      1. I feel that that is the vibe — rich person in visible philanthropy role. I could so do that, at least style-wise. I will be your keynote speaker at that fundraising lunch.

        1. I teach at a university and this would be a great dress for any teaching day. “For work” means many different things to many different people.

    3. I think this could be styled for work but I wouldn’t wear it with a topper at all, just as a standalone piece. I’d do a simple black pump or a very sleek black leather boot and call it a day. I have a colleague who is tall and thin and she would rock this.

      1. This is how I would do it, and have several similar dresses for work. IMHO, it is a dress that you need to have enough seniority and gravitas to pull off the look.

    4. Love this pick. I would wear it for in office days, and not mess it up with a topper.

    5. Yes. I finally learned to not ever buy sleeveless work dresses that aren’t meant to have a blazer or jacket over them.

    7. I want to know where all you people work that isn’t freezing. I’m normally cold in the office even when wearing a topper. The idea of going sleeveless just makes me uncomfortable because I would be freezing all day.

  2. Shopping help please. I’ve gotten back into working out, but am struggling to find a long-line (or non-crop) version of my favorite type of workout top. Doing a ton of yoga, I routinely wore a top that had straps, a built in bra, and was snug all the way down to where the top ended, a few inches below the belly button. There was never a gap between the top of my pants and the bottom of the top. I’ve checked all the usual suspects (Athleta, Zelle at Nordstrom, Lulu, Alo, etc) and can only find either bras or very cropped styles which would definitely gap when I reached overhead, which I don’t want. Ideas welcome!

    7. Budget option from Old Navy: StudioSmooth Racerback Support Top. It’s got thin straps and a shelf bra.

    8. You might be leading yourself astray if you’re searching “long-line”— that means a longer sports bra. Think you want a “tank” as other users link below.

    9. I have one piece jumpsuits by both beyond yoga and old navy. Both have built-in bras. I like jumpsuits for this exact reason! They will never ride up.

  3. I am clueless about makeup. When I was in my late twenties someone at Nordstrom showed me how to use Bobbi Brown pressed powder foundation and mascara and that’s what I’ve been using since, with black honey lipstick. I’m coming up on 40 and have taken on a big job and I feel I need to update my look. Unfortunately Nordstrom closed. Do I go to a Sephora? Hire a makeup artist? I see makeup tutorials on Instagram and I am overwhelmed by all of those steps like primer, skin tint, setting spray, etc.

    1. yes! sephora or ulta or bloomingdales or macys or blue mercy… one of those kinds of places. They don’t charge you and you don’t have to buy everything they use (like they will definitelytry to sell you a lot of pre foundation stuff and several colors of eye shadow and a day and night lipstick). i have always found saying, “if i were to buy three which would you recommend” to work to get it down….

      1. Blue mercury is great for this. Natural looking products and not an overwhelming store. Friendly, kind staff.

      2. I was really surprised when I went to an Ulta when I was traveling ready to buy EVERYTHING bc I had forgotten a few makeup items packing and had a major event, and they acted like no one had ever asked them to do their makeup before. Do stores still offer this/was this a fluke?

        2. I have never been offered assistance at Ulta and cannot find anyone to ask a question.

    2. Bobbi Brown Intensive Serum Foundation is great and will be available in the shade you know works for you. Then go to their counter at a department store.

    3. Watch beginner make up videos on youtube. Really. Watch the ones with at least 75k views or more and watch a mix of beginner instruction (what to do) and beginner make up kit suggestions (what to buy). Treat it like learning a new skill – like knitting or excel where you need instruction, practice, instruction, practice. I did this and got it in two weeks before a switch to a big job but it took real practice. It was well worth it.

    4. Honestly you’re probably fine as you are except for the lipstick, which sounds a little dated. Try a different color there. Charlotte Tilbury makes a lot of can’t miss colors.

      1. Clinique black honey (which I think of as my mom’s lipstick from 20+ years ago) is actually very trendy among the young people now! Give anything enough time and it cycles back around.

        1. Yes, I know. It’s fine on the youth but when you’re 40 and have been wearing it for decades, it’s time for a refresh.

      2. lol I thought this was the only part that was still cool – I heard it was having a comeback. Shows what I know.

      3. Pressed powder foundation has been out of style for a while and is not a great pick for someone north of 40 who is starting to have drier skin and more fine lines. They need a cream foundation or tinted moisturizer, cream blush and possibly light contour. Clinique Black Honey on the other hand is right on trend.

        1. As someone 50, not true – a powder foundation is often more blurring and flattering if you start with a good moisturizer and base.

        2. I’m 52 and totally agree. You want something giving moisture and glow and plumping. Powder foundation doesn’t do that as well as liquids. My favorite thing is to take some Merit oil and then layer over a liquid foundation. I like Hourglass ambient or Kosas (small amount).

    5. I go to Sephora every 5 years or so and have them do an everyday face for me. I end up buying some of the products and replicating that look for a while. Doing it every several years helps because my skin looks better with different types of products as I age.

    6. I would go to Sephora and ask a sales person to help you pick out:
      – a lightweight foundation or skin tint
      – concealer
      – beginner friendly bronzer or contour stick
      – cream brush
      – brow gel
      – mascara
      – setting spray
      – tinted lip balm
      And seconding the advice for YouTube videos! Search “beginner friendly makeup routine” “simple everyday makeup” etc. and you should come across something helpful. These products are designed to be easy to use, don’t be intimidated!

      2. I went to Sephora recently to buy a couple of things for an 80s party. I said I wanted to do eyeliner like Princess Diana, and she looked at me blankly. I said I don’t want waterproof. Will this liner you’re recommending work on the inner lid?

        She sold me a waterproof liner that made zero marks on my inner lid. awesome!

    7. I cannot stand sephora. It is loud, looks junky, and the young women don’t really know what they are doing. I would head to another department store and make an appointment.

      1. Since Nordstrom closed the only thing I have is a not very nice Dillards or Sephora. Which is better for this? And do I pay for an appointment at Sephora?

        1. you do not pay at sephora but you have to buy a certain amount of stuff (i think used to be $50 but may have gone up). agree not all of them are good. do you know anyone local or do you belong to a local facebook group? this is exactly the kind of question someone would post on our local board: “want to get make up done at sephora at x street. anyone have a go to sales girl?”

        2. If those are your options, then I would try a local makeup artist. Make sure you find one with an instagram whose work you like. I did a makeup artist lesson when I was looking to start wearing more makeup, and it ended up great and I bought almost everything she taught me to use during the class. I was able to really spend a lot of time with her and take notes and try things.
          My best pick for a lesson/makeover at a store would be BlueMercury but sounds like you don’t have one of those nearby.

        3. I would try Dillards for sure. Even if its not the best store, you can find someone helpful at one of the counters. I like Estee Lauder, Lancome, and Clinique.

    8. I had my makeup done for an event at a nice hotel that had an inhouse salon/spa. I liked the artists much that I took their card and booked a private session to teach me an updated and give product recommendations. Some suggestions were brand and others were just types (brown cream eyeliner). That way I had a list when I walked into Sephora/Ulta

    9. Jones Road – which is Bobby Brown’s current company – will let you book an in store make up session and refund the price if you buy stuff. Their stuff is great and they teach you how to use everything to come up with a good look for you.
      I don’t know if you have one of these near you, but at least in NYC I would trust them a lot more than someone random at sephora.

    10. Lisa Eldridge has great videos on youtube. Look for tutorials for simple looks for your age bracket.

    2. Freeze it in an ice cub tray, and once frozen, throw into a ziploc and store in freezer. Add to all those winter soups and stews – just a cube or two. Adds great flavor.

    4. do you like rice? also works very well on top of chicken or salmon, or in a cucumber/tomato salad as “dressing”

    5. How much of a jar? If I have a partial jar I often freeze it and then will throw it into a chili or a tomato based soup.

    6. One of my favorite sandwiches is a grilled cheese with basil pesto with spicy soppressata. I’ve also used it for a green shakshuka type dish.

    9. My daughter makes what she calls a “pesto egg” where she makes an over-easy egg cooked in pesto and then puts it on top of sourdough toast. I also like pesto in sandwiches.

  5. Feeling a little sad today. A family member was in town over the weekend and we walked by our late grandparents’ house in what is now an extremely wealthy area that neither of us can afford to live in. It used to have lots of middle and upper middle class families. We spent every Christmas there and it was so happy and now a new family is doing that in the house my grandpa built on a tree lined street I love. I realized that it’s where I would have wanted to live after college if I could have afforded it and it’s just never going to happen. I know we have no right to live anywhere we choose but I wish I could have. I’ve made many fun new Christmas traditions but boy, those childhood ones in that wonderful house were so special.

    1. the holidays are tough… do you think you’re just feeling a little sad and nostalgic or is it more about the money? the reality is that lots of us aren’t as well off as we were raised (or rather you have to be more well off now to do things we did then) and i too find it to be a bummer.

      1. Definitely both. We have been feeling bad about living in our sad little rental and not being able to provide our baby with what my grandparents and parents had. I grew up upper middle class, my husband poor. Lots of complex dynamics and we’re both feeling the weight of family losses this time of year too.

        1. Losses as in people have died? Or like you just don’t have their lifestyle as a financial budget? The latter is fine. I feel that many of us just go to work and come home tired and if so, you can’t always summon the energy to do the uber-hustle that someone has to do (maybe co-timed with getting lucky with timing, like inventing the post-it note). But it’s like having an NFL career — that can create a whole pile of transformative wealth, but that .0001% of things working out once isn’t something you should beat yourself up over having it not also work out for you — it wasn’t ever likely to happen that way and living a good and honorable life is really the most many of us can do.

    2. Yeah, the housing market can do that. I grew up in a family that was really snobby about people who live in modern tract homes. And my husband’s grandfather had an amazing place. But at the end of the day our small tract house is just fine. We don’t have to spend a ton of time or money on maintenance and won’t have to downsize,

      3. I agree, as someone whose kid is in the throes of college admissions. Some of these elite institutions sure do seem to want only the $$$$ kids and the ones with the most traumatic stories.

    4. It’s just a house. Go make enough money to afford it if you think the location is that important, but it wasn’t. Your memories are fond because your family was there, you were a child, and it was the holidays. Learn to be content with those three things as an adult, too, and you won’t covet houses you can’t afford.

      1. ‘Go make enough money’ is an insane take, even for those in fields where you can reasonably increase your earnings potential you typically have to do that by selling your soul. Would 300k be nice? Yeah but I don’t want to work for a company dumping toxic waste into the environment, so I settle for 100k and a job I’m morally okay with.

        1. Then presumably you’re also okay not having a super fancy house! We all make our choices, and it sounds like you like yours!

          1. I actually do live in a fancy Victorian house. But I’m fully aware that’s privilege. May you have the day you deserve.

        2. The whole response is very weird – written by a flat and low emotional intelligence person, from the looks of it.

          1. Or from someone who thinks jealousy is incredibly embarrassing in a grown woman.

      2. Architecture honestly means more than this to me. Think about the difference between attending Christmas services at the cathedral vs. the gym of some school that a church is renting. People weren’t fools for building the cathedrals.

        1. People didn’t live in the cathedrals. I guess if OP is living in the sort of house that people were living in when the cathedrals were being built — no running water, no heat, no insulation — then I think OP has a legitimate complaint about her housing. Otherwise, you can go to beautiful places without needing to own them.

          1. Okay. I’ve tried it both ways, and I promise my quality of life is a lot higher when a little thought and care was put into my daily physical environment.

          2. Yeah, and that doesn’t require living in an area that is now for the “super wealthy.” I promise even us poor folks in apartments are capable of being content with what we have.

        2. I’ve lived in a beautiful Victorian home with gorgeous woodwork and I currently live in a *gasp* tract home. I like it just as much. It’s decorated to my taste, it’s peaceful and comfortable and simple. I can paint whatever I’d like without committing a crime against architecture and it has appropriate closets and bathrooms. I love beautiful houses and I think everyone should love their home, but I was much happier after I shifted my energy from house envy to making this humble house lovely. I still admire great architecture but from afar.

          1. Good for you? I lived in a modern condo and it made me want to claw my eyes out. So now I live in a lovely Victorian originally built with both closets AND forced air.

          2. Humble is fine, but I can’t unsee bad proportions, and I really struggle with low ceilings and minimal natural light. Colors and furnishings and artificial lighting and mirrors, etc. only go so far. I understand it’s still a place to live. It’s just sad when it wouldn’t even have cost much more to follow tried and true design principles for comfort.

    5. There’s something so warming and good about being in a position to carry on a family tradition or maintain the continuity of community and location. I’m sorry that you’ve lost that. It does sound sad. I feel regret or nostalgia about some of my family’s lost inherited property, too. Things that were undesirable 3 generations ago when they were acquired, and getting expensive when my parents’ generation cashed out, now can’t be reclaimed due to being in hot areas.
      Some of these responses are bizarre and lacking empathy or missing the point.

      1. Thank you ❤️ When my grandma died, we sold the house (as her will stipulated) and lost that central meeting place and it never recovered. None of the younger generation can afford to live in or even nearby that town, even though we all love the area. It’s a bummer for sure.

        1. You can meet up somewhere else. You can even rent out a rec hall on a non-Christmas day and gather there. So many options that don’t require owning an ultra fancy house.

          2. You just wanted to post about being sad on a message board and receive no messages in response? Weird.

    6. Oh, I’m sorry — but maybe a reframe: what a gift it is to have those joyful memories and to have known a house of love. It can be bittersweet to remember those.

    1. wfh but going to the office tomorrow! I expect it to be pretty quiet but I need to knock out some stuff so that will work for me!

    2. Ugh yes. There are a few people here but they’re on the other side of the building.

    3. Working from home, but enjoying lack of meetings and incoming emails :) Hope you are enjoying too.

    4. Ugh, yep. My team is the only one here because our boss despises WFH for no good reason. Morale is great.

    5. WFH, but it is divinely quiet. I’m burning down my to do list and relishing in my favorite work weeks of the year.

  7. Making shrimp scampi with orzo from NYT cooking for guests tomorrow night, and need ideas for a salad to go with it that isn’t caeser. What is your favorite green salad recipe that would go with garlicky shrimp and crusty bread?

    1. Romaine and spinach, with diced apples and pomegranate pips. Honey apple vinaigrette dressing.

      I did this last year with prime rib and potatoes for Christmas dinner, and it was light with just enough bite to manage the fat of the beef.

      1. This sounds amazing, and even without avocado and hearts of palm is a very traditional salad that pairs well.

      1. Fennel is a divisive vegetable, I would check with guests before including it in the menu. I am an ‘eat anything’ sort of person but I can barely stomach fennel, though I do choke it down to be polite.

  8. My stomach is bigger than my boobs (hi, perimenopause). To me, it’s hard to dress this new-to-me shape. If this is you, please post your styling advice. A challenge is now that even though I’ve gone up 2 sizes to get pants that fit, the outfits don’t come together in a way that my eye likes. Proportions aren’t right. I’ve tried to use a big bright scarf to bring the eye up or just a high-volume large sweater (chunky t-necks in a thick weave), but what else is there?

    1. I went through that for a few years. I found tucked in, and high waisted to be my friend. Defining the waist helped way more than trying to avoid it.

    2. For dresses, a shirt dress or straight sheath with a high waist works better than natural waist or flare.

    3. This is when I started shopping at Talbots and JJill. The shops that are codes as for mature women make clothes that fit our bellies without being giant on the shoulder area. Also, I am 5’4 and used to wear regular sizes. Now that I am much heavier all around (I used to be a size 6 and now I am 14) it is more important that I get the petite cut for the right proporations. Tops that are blousy with a little band below the waist help. If the top is fitted a little blazer or cardi seems to hide the belly,

      1. Co-sign for the blazers. Cardigans can be too drapey but a good blazer in a crisper fabric really obscures things.

    4. Perimenopausal rectangle here – S and Anonymous both ring true for me. I also like a slightly cropped, loose sweater (almost an A-line) with high-waisted, tapered pants.
      And also – give yourself some time to get used to how things look now. Peri is such a mindf*ck anyway – letting go of the expectation that clothes had to look a certain way has helped me a lot.

    5. With an apple shape you can either distract (big hair, bright glasses, bold lip, fun shoes, etc) or disguise. Disguise is harder but basically you use color, proportion and other aspects of the clothing to “fool” the eye. One trick I have is a brightly colored belt at the waist and then a cropped just below the waist or peplum blazer worn open (over a tucked in blouse/top) showing just the front part of the belt, the eye is drawn to a narrow spot and sort of “fills in” that the waist is more narrow when the blazer is hiding the actual dimensions if you get me. Other options are half and half split down the middle pattern dresses (they’re a bit hard to find but they exist), color blocking, using a “third piece” on top to break up the mid-section, ruching/shirring/drawstrings/smocking (“is it smocking or body? who knows!”), wrap or surplice tops, peplum, circle skirts, shirt-dresses, fit and flare dresses.

    6. i’m there also – do pay attention to where you are in your cycle, what you’ve eaten lately, etc, because a lot of bloating can be avoided on days where you really care about your appearance.

  9. Great pick. There are some amazing plaid designs this year. I am an Antonio
    Melani fan, their pieces are really well made. Better than Nordstrom.

    1. I have an Antonio Melani dress similar to this, except gray check with sleeves. It’s prob 7 years old but maybe I’ll pull it out in Jan since this style seems to be back.

  10. I feel weird asking this, lol– I finally want to do something about the little dark hairs on my upper lip. Do those twinkle razors work well? I’d prefer not to wax or bleach because I have sensitive skin. Is plucking them the best solution?

    1. Any of the dermaplaning razors should work for this. The best solution would probably be electrolysis, but the razors work fine for at home.

    4. after i had a reaction to one of those sally hansen hair removal things, i’ve been using tinkle razors. i had a brief period where i used one of those twisty things, which also work, but I find the tinkle razors do 98% of what i want done. i pluck one or two hairs that are growing out of moles (ugh feels so witchy) and call it a day. i only do the tinkle every 6 weeks or so.

    5. Plucking is horrendously painful. I’ve been using the Tinkle razors and have no complaints.

    6. I do both. Pluck the worst, and use the tinkle every now and then to catch the rest. But I don’t have that many really dark or coarse hairs, and I don’t find it that painful to pluck them.

    7. If yours are thin and dark, try the razor. Mine are an entirely different texture – thick, wiry, visible even before they emerge – and plucking is the only thing that mitigates the 5 o’clock shadow issue.

    8. Different take here – I did electroylsis on my upper lip 30+ years ago and am so glad I did. Took about a year of semi-weekly appointments. Now in menopause, with random hairs appearing on various parts of my face and neck, I am back. I can book 5 or 10 minute sessions, which is all I want to do at once. Once it’s been zapped about once and sometimes twice, just doesn’t come back. I now go in every 4 weeks or so for maintenance.

  11. Has anyone used Costco Travel for the airfair + hotel part of a big trip before? I want to go to Rome during a busy travel time and their deals don’t seem bad. Really relying on them to have a decent-enough hotel that is convenient-enough and has food handy. If you have used them, how easy was it to add on (and through them or on your own), stuff like a Vatican tour, etc.?

    1. I have not but my parents just booked Tahiti through them and had a really good experience, although my father found their insistence on reading back his itinerary every time he called frustrating. They booked airfare, hotels, airport transport, and inter-island flights through them and then booked most of their excursions on their own. Their agents did a really good job of unscrambling flights when there was an issue with weather, and they felt like they got some extras because Costco is such a big player.

      For Rome, they would probably book your airfare, hotel and transfers. Their hotels tend to be high end chains and anything in central Rome is going to have food nearby and be convenient. They are not going to book extras like tours. (Tip – if you are interested in church history, email the Vatican directly and try to book the Scavi tour which can ONLY be booked through the Vatican. It is amazing on its own, but also means you can skip the security line for St. Peters.)

      I found Italy to be easy to do myself, but Costco does off an advantage if there are any problems.

    3. I’ve used Costco Travel for the basics of two trips (hotel, airfare, transfer/rental car) and had a very good experience. I don’t recall any local activities being part of their offerings, but perhaps that varies based on where you go? I was happy with the hotels but I will say that I had already chosen the hotels on my own and booked through Costco because they were offering good rates for them for those dates.

    4. I’ve used them for two cruises and countless rental cars. I’m generally a DIY traveler who loves planning everything and not inclined to use an agency, but their prices really can’t be beat. I’m evaluating a Costco package for a Costa Rica trip for my 40th next year.

      They are incredibly hands off and customer service is slow but good, if you want to add anything I’d plan it separately unless you have to run through your hotel. I haven’t needed them to fix anything for me bc of weather issues, but I would generally try the airline for that anyway.

  12. A relative who was smart in high school went through college thinking he was pre-med. Then realized that he wasn’t and was pre-law. I think he was talked out of that due to a friend’s concern that he didn’t really have a plan and borrowed to go to law school and then kept failing the bar — it is an expensive way to feel like you have a plan while digging yourself deep into a hole. But at Christmas I will see relative and he is very blue that while everyone else’s lives seem to be launching or have direction or a plan, he is still figuring it out (BUT he is figuring it out at a McJob at least while not being 6 figures in debt). Are there books out there for more recent grads that help them navigate a life that isn’t like law or medicine that comes pre-packaged out of the box? It’s likely to be a topic and it might be helpful to say “I heard that X was helpful” — I get the sense that he’s looking for a path and wants to find it, but doesn’t have a clue how. He is a nice guy and reasonably smart in a book-smart way.

    1. Stay out of it. I’m sure you mean well, but commenting on this individual’s intelligence and capabilities this way shows you’re not the right source here.

    2. Not a book, but has he considered studying to become a physician’s assistant? He may have already completed a lot of pre-requisites while he was pre-med. Healthcare roles like these are in demand in lots of settings, with decent pay and stability.

      1. This.

        And banish “should” from your conversation. Just be curious, and ask before offering solutions, fixes, or ideas. Be a little coach-y in these moments (not mentor-y; your path is not necc. his path).

        1. +1. And don’t bring it up unless he does. Having been in similar shoes, I imagine he’s dreading the “so have you gotten a new job?” questions this season.

      2. Yes. I read recently that “all unsolicited advice is criticism” and I think that’s spot on.

    4. It sounds like he needs connections more than anything if he needs to get out of a McJob and into a job that uses his degree? The What Color is Your Parachute book may be the book though.

      1. +1 I very luckily fell @ss backwards into a job that hires based 100% on merit for legal reasons, but if that hadn’t happened I would probably still be an admin of some sort because getting into jobs without connections or being a charming extrovert is impossible.

    5. Move to a state with an easier bar? Not sure where he took it but if it was in California it’s one of the hardest to pass.

      1. OP here. Sorry — a guy on the other side of his family that he really looked up to was the one who really wanted to go to law school and did and could not pass the bar. I didn’t know him well, but my guess is that law school is easy to sign up for and then a bit choose-your-own-adventure and unless you self-navigate to criminal defense work or securities or tax or T&E and make connections and take those classes, if you’re not the top 10 of your class, it’s a bit of a free-fall after. So you need a direction and a plan (and to pass the bar). And even then, if you make 50K a year as a lawyer or JD-preferred, does that even make sense? IDK.

        Relative is realizing that there are already a lot of 50K/year jobs but they have no promotion potential and if he want to eventually be married, house, kids, he’s going to need to do something that pays better (and as his graduating class gets married, buys houses, and settles down, he is really blue about it not seeming likely to happen for him).

        The fact that it could be much worse is very cold comfort. I’m not an aunt, but from an older cohort of cousins. I also do a tax work that most people run screaming from, and went through school straight through, so of no help. My friends foundered around a bit, but we all found our way by our 30s, so maybe a bit longer of an on-ramp for some.

        1. The answer here is connections and networking instead of picking a path or reading a book. For example, if he’s JD, consider JD preferred jobs like contract manager. If his friends have jobs with companies that might have that position, he can see if they can get him in touch with that person for advice/an informational interview.

          1. Same commenter as above- are we talking about someone who completed law school and failed the bar or that’s a different person? My advice was for the former. If the latter, I’d just be a listening ear and offer any connections you have if he finds and interest.

          2. OP — it’s someone else who failed the bar. While that person was in law school, my relative thought they’d follow that person’s path (which was financially bad and emotionally rough — here’s hoping to eventual public interest loan forgiveness as a state JD-preferred worker).

            I think it’s that “having a plan” is comforting, but the plan can be illusory or backfire. But we like to feel like we have it planned out as humans.

        2. The people he should be in touch with are his career services at his alma mater. THEY can connect with him, help with his network (alumni and corporate-sponsored functions), and even help discern more about law school – perhaps he really does have the acumen for that (JDs can be incredibly flexible degrees) and was balking at the investment in a very, very tumultuous economic time. Listen for where he, personally seemed to get shy about what The Future might be. Does he have a weird belief about cannot-pass-bar friend (like friend is leagues smarter, so your cousin quit on the path before even trying? Did they get as far as the LSAT?). Oh, and if he’s been graduated beyond the window of free, new-alumni services, look at what the cost it might be for re-connecting, ofter it’s nominal, like $35, 50? a year- as they want people who are un- or under-employed to come back, find that great job, and eventually become a helpful alumni for some future grad or alum.

          The other area is that while others are in school, your cousin IS developing skills. Sometimes people with 20 years of schooling are wildly out of touch with service/blue-pink-white-etc.-collar labor.

          Another area that varies by where he lives is getting a job at a university that has tuition remission for any sort of advanced or professional degree that may be a fit for him. Lots of young adults in college towns, as well as shared housing that allows people to save for a downpayment on their own home.

      2. The sentence was confusing but I think OP’s relative is fresh out of college and in a job, and relative’s friend warned relative off law school because *friend* failed the bar.

        I agree that OP should not give career books at holidays!

    6. I don’t have a book suggestion. Maybe ask him what he is interested in, and then offer to connect him with 2-3 people in your network who might be helpful for him to reach out to. Then actually connect him.

      If he declines, let it be and maybe offer again next year if he’s still in the same predicament.

      Worth making a point of letting know that you admire his willingness to work and keep earning even though he’s figuring it out. Not sure how to phrase that in a way that works though!

      1. This and maybe offer to review his resume if you do any hiring and know what a good vs. terrible resume looks like.

    7. Sigh. Not everyone who does well in high school is going to be a doctor or lawyer. We need smart nurses and paralegals, too. I honestly don’t know what a pre-law degree is for at all. You can learn what you need to know in the 3 years in law school. Take a real subject and learn something: biology, accounting, or even art history!

    8. How did he go through college and not know what his major was at all? What does his diploma say on it?

    9. He should contact his college career development office and schedule a career counseling session. Honestly, it sounds like too many people are giving him bad career advice.

      If he wants to be a lawyer, he should go to law school, not let someone else’s failures dictate his life. Networking with other alumni about their day to day jobs would probably be more beneficial than reading a book if he just wants to know what a day to day job is like. But also, a lot of people don’t just have a specific career life plan figured out in their 20s.

      1. Agree! Just because one relative keeps failing the bar doesn’t mean law school isn’t a great idea for folks who want to become lawyers…

        But if he doesn’t know what he wants, law school is NOT. It.

        Would suggest those career coach type sessions where he thinks about what he likes to do/wants to do. What kind of $ he needs to support himself, etc.

    10. If I were your relative, and feeling sensitive about how fast/slow I was finding my way in life, the LAST thing I would want is for this all to be the topic of conversation at family holidays! Is there any way you can prep a topic change instead?

      Ask him about what he’s doing for fun! Or what city-he-lives-in-now is like, or to take the younger kids for an energy-burning run at the park, or tell how much he reminds you of his uncle Joe 30 years ago.

    11. This is classic not your circus, not your monkeys. Stay out of it and just chit chat for god’s sake. You’re not a career counselor and the poor kid probably just wants to feel loved. My god the things people come up with here.

    12. Do you know all this info about his life because he’s telling you directly that he feels very blue and doesn’t have a plan? Or is this what the family grapevine is buzzing about? if he’s telling you directly, then that’s your opening to give him some encouragement. Otherwise, I’d just enjoy being around him at the holiday without giving input. And, congrats to him for getting a job, gaining some basic skills, and staying out of debt while he figures out his next step!

    13. If he still is interested in medicine he should look into being a physician’s assistant.

    14. i would agree with the others to stay out of it

      but if he ASKS encourage him to network with people — go to informational lunches with people walking ANY path that might be interesting to him (or easy to get to based on his credentials). talk to his college advisors and use the alumni network; that’s at least 75% of what the value of college is.

      it’s ok to not have a plan and take a while to figure it out.

    15. I wish I had a book recommendation, but I will say (as a GenX that graduated into a not-so-great economy) there are plenty of people who don’t/didn’t go right from college into a career-type job and frankly others can be super mean and unhelpful about it. Being nice to him and not giving him advice unless he asks for it may be the best thing to do.

      1. +1 as an elder millennial who graduated from law school in a down time. I was lucky to always be employed, but I was under-employed into my 30s, and no amount of folks talking to me about it or offering unsolicited advice ever felt like anything but criticism.

    16. Honestly, I’d listen, be encouraging, and stay out of it unless you can offer a connection to someone in your network. It sounds like he’s doing fine. He graduated from college, has a McJob, seems to have a little ambition, and isn’t incurring debt just as a default option. At his age, it’s OK to still be figuring things out. I look back on my friends who skipped or delayed grad school and were figuring things out in their early 20s, and at 40, they’re just as or more successful and more interesting than the doctors and lawyers among us.

      Also, this is such a tough job market for young people. I have a relative who recently graduated from college, and she’s working 2 part-time retail jobs. She’ll probably be laid off from one because there aren’t enough customers to keep the store open, and she’ll probably get fired from the other because her manager instructed her (but only verbally) to falsify data to make one aspect of the store’s performance look better than it is.

    17. if he does have a BS in undergrad then he should look into therapies like speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy — all are growing fields as more and more kids get early intervention (or other fields that focus on athletes, older adults, generalists, etc.). neuropsych might also be interesting but then afaik it’s mostly administering tests and interpreting results.

    18. Just don’t. Just don’t say anything about his job search unless he specifically asks for your thoughts. I graduated from law school during the great recession and it was excruciating to get “advice” from well-meaning adults who were older and out of touch and not lawyers. They had no clue what the job market was like, what practicing law was like, how people found jobs, what my niche was, etc. Some great advice I received was “well why not try the federal government? Have you thought about government work? What about JAG?” (I am not military.) Or “offer to be a runner and file papers and they’ll see your work ethic and promote you to attorney.” Or “maybe you could be a judge?” So I had to politely respond to all of that terrible advice while feeling terrible.

      Anyways, advice that is this high-level and superficial from someone who has no specific insider knowledge is totally unhelpful. A suggestion of some book that you haven’t even read yourself but heard on the internet could be helpful just isn’t going to cut it. Just be a kind human and let your poor family member focus on something else.

    19. A family member gave me a book called You Majored in What? By Kathrine Brooks and it has some good information about finding your path after college

  13. How do you come back from accidentally calling your spouse by your ex’s name?

    It wasn’t in bed! I was frustrated with him about something childcare related, and he was telling me it was nbd, which frustrated me more, and I said something like, omg Bill I can’t with you rn! Bill is my ex husband from over 15 years ago who I’ve had no contact with since the divorce. I never think about him. He had a child from a previous relationship and some of our disagreements were about kid issues; since I was just a stepmom my opinion didn’t matter so he often shut me down by saying as much. So, I think my brain just connected the out of character for DH dismissiveness with my ex. FWIW, I have once or twice accidentally called DH “mom” when he’s frustrating me, too.

    I tried to explain all this. I just don’t associate DH with negative feelings! On the rare occasion he frustrates or annoys me, I end up calling him someone else’s name because the feeling is so foreign when it comes to him. He’s still hurt. What can I say or do to make it right?

    1. It is flight or fight and came from you amygdala! You were feeling upset, how you used to feel when you argued with your ex or your mom. It is an understandable mistake.

    2. I’ve mixed up my husband’s and brother’s names before when either of them has annoyed me enough. I guess my brain has a category of “ugh annoying boy.” Same as your example with saying “mom,” it’s really not something to get jealous over (!).

      1. My husband has gotten frustrated with me and cycled from his sister’s name to “Mom” to my name.

    3. I don’t think this is that big of a deal, especially since it happened during a fight? But my mom gets her kids names wrong all the time, I accidentally mix up my husband and the cat’s names, and I have a coworker people are always getting me mixed up with, so maybe I’m just very used to this (in all three cases, the names start with the same two letters).

    4. I think your explanation is very reasonable, and if you’ve already shared this and apologized, I don’t know what more you can really do. This is really common and people make verbal flubs sometimes. I have called my partner by the dog’s name when partner is being loud and annoying, because 50 times a day we say the dog’s name when the dog is being loud and annoying. He accidentally called his niece by our other dog’s name (they are both sweet silly girls who are quite fond of each other) when we were discussing Christmas gifts the other day. This is not a huge deal, he needs to accept your apology and move on.

    5. no advice but we frequently do this — i call my son my brother’s name, my husband calls our second son the dog’s name, etc.

    6. True story: I never have to worry about this because my second and third husbands have the same first name! (In our house we refer to the ex as “Mr. Lastname” and current as “Firstname.”)

      To answer your question: you don’t have to explain or make it right. He is entitled to his feelings but this is a thing that happens and you don’t have to tie yourself up in knots about it. (My former mother in law used to go through everybody’s name before she hit on the right one: “Joe Mary Pete…” And my own mom used to call me the (very similar to mine) name of her longtime teacher’s aide, and call the aide my name.)

      1. This is, per usual, spot in IMO. I am also divorced and have accidentally called current SO by ex’s name when I’m frustrated/annoyed (and he will go through the cat names/his mom/sister/last ex when he’s really frustrated, too).

        An aside: the ex and my current SO do not have the same first name, but they do work in the same niche industry. Despite the fact that I dated extensively between the two of them (and there are years separating my divorce and the current relationship), we joke that I have a “type.” In reality, they could not be more different humans if they tried.

    8. My first husband’s name and my current husband’s name rhyme. “Brian” comes out when I’m frustrated or hangry or irritated at “Ryan”. It’s not often and it’s not deep. Ryan is entitled to feel a little weirded out, but it’s a slip of the tongue, nothing more.

    9. Find the humor in it. It helps if your husband can too. We get over everything like this by laughing about it.

    11. I really would not do anything more or revisit this. You did nothing wrong and frankly your perfectly reasoned explanation is a compliment to your husband. If your husband can’t get over it after another day or two, he should seek advice about how to get over something meaningless when his mind is stuck on it.

    12. It sounds like you’ve done your part and husband now needs to be a big boy and get over this.

      1. This. You’ve explained and apologized. Let it go. And then he can let it go on his own time; hopefully he’ll get over this non-problem soon.

    13. Tell him to be thankful you didn’t call him the dogs name.

      This is a tough one to come back from. Do you have a colleague with the same name?

  14. What leather protectant do you swear by? Just purchased my first pair of higher end boots (Loeffler Randall Danny Lug boot in leather). They are gorgeous, and before wearing them I’d like to use a spray or other product to protect the leather, since I live in a cold and snowy climate. Hoping someone has a tried and true recommendation.

    1. I haven’t been able to find them online but if you go to Dicks or a shoe store in person you’ll find them. they’re all about the same in my experience.

      you might also want to consider taking them to a cobbler to get rubber soles if you’re worried about slipping in them. they would probably also have leather protectant.

    2. I’d suggest going with a brand that is known for weather-durable upscale boots, like Aquatalia or La Canadienne. I accidentally stepped in an ankle-depth melting-sleet puddle in my Aquatalias, which are black suede, and could not even tell!

  15. you do not pay at sephora but you have to buy a certain amount of stuff (i think used to be $50 but may have gone up). agree not all of them are good. do you know anyone local or do you belong to a local facebook group? this is exactly the kind of question someone would post on our local board: “want to get make up done at sephora at x street. anyone have a go to sales girl?”

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