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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 337 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Cable Knit Turtleneck Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. eliza-j-sweater-dress-2Ooh: this cozy sweaterdress comes in regular, petite, and plus sizes, and looks fabulous for a more casual workday. I like how it isn't too clingy, but isn't shapeless, either, and how the knit pattern on the front gives it a very flattering effect. My only regret is that it doesn't come in more colors. Eliza J Cable Knit Turtleneck Dress (If you are interested in plus size workwear, please sign up for CorporettePlus, our newsletter! Signing up helps us gauge interest in the project, and we promise not to blast your email more than once a week at most. (Right now it’s more like once a month.)) Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]. (L-all)

Sales of note for 8.30.24

  • Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
  • Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
  • Boden – 20% off
  • Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
  • Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
  • Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
  • Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
  • White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale

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Comments

  1. Anonymous

    I’d like to think that just because my boss has a hire position than me, it doesn’t make my boss better than me.

    Unfortunately, my boss doesn’t believe that we are ‘equal’. She has a huge ego and wants me to ask permission for everything.
    If I ask to take a day off, she would like to know what I am doing during the day off before she approves it. She wants me to inform her when I leave for lunch break. Small formatting changes must be approved as well.

    How can you get pass this without crushing egos (getting fired)?

    • LAnon

      You’re not equal. She’s your boss. You might have equal intrinsic worth as human beings, but in the office, you are her subordinate and she can make requests of you like this. Also, if your work has the same type of grammatical errors as your comment (“hire”, “passed”), it’s not surprising that she insists on reviewing it.

    • Anonymous

      Same as last week, you recognize that you aren’t equal, because she is your boss. If you don’t like it, you find another job.

    • Jitterbug

      You and your boss are not equal. Even if you’re the same age, even if you have the same level of experience or the same skill level, your boss is in an official position of power over you.

      There could be some micromanagement at play, but based on the information you gave, I doubt it. It’s normal to want to know why you’re asking for time off, or to want to know when you’re leaving for lunch, and there’s probably a good reason why formatting changes need to be made.

    • Beth

      Also, how many years into your career/industry are you? If you are a senior director with 15 years experience talking about your VP boss, that’s certainly silly. But if you are an entry level analyst with <2 years experience and talking about a team lead/manager type, it's par for the course. Lots of grey area on between.

    • Walnut

      So…a manager here. Have you screwed something up big time? Do you make little errors all the time? Do your 45 minute lunches turn into hour and a half lunches? Are your formatting changes not in line with the corporate style guide or department norms? Are you less than 3 years into your job?

      If so, you’re probably on the verge of a performance improvement plan. Start looking at what you’re doing to cause your boss to act this way. Looking back at my string of bosses, only about 10% of them micromanaged for the sake on micromanaging. The rest of them micromanaged because I needed extra managing.

      • anon hawker

        This. I had to micromanage staff who made billing, scheduling, phone call, and typing/filing errors. She wouldn’t resign despite massive performance reviews, plans, etc. I felt like it was such a negative and hostile environment. She just couldn’t do the job anymore. Finally I had to let her go (with advice from my attorney and miles of my record keeping). She filed for unemployment and that jacked up my rates for a long time. She told them (and social network) that she had no idea why she was fired. This is after at least five year’s employment, the last year of which was awful. I felt bad for her but worse for myself having to be such a hawk about everything.

    • unreal

      She’s your boss. She is literally above you on the work hierarchy- i.e., you two are per se not equal. The fact that she requires you to ask her for permission has nothing to do with her ego and everything to do with the fact that she’s your supervisor. Unless, perhaps, like Beth suggested, you are 15 years in.

      You get past this by calming down *your* ego and playing by her rules.

    • Anonymous

      Your boss may be rude, but she isn’t out of line with these things. I have a feeling there is more going on then what you’ve expressed here for you to be this angry.

      It is normal to want to know whether people are in or out of the office, especially if you have flexibility as to when you take lunch. My boss doesn’t like to be bothered with that sort of thing, but she also knows I take lunch at 12:00 on the dot daily +/- 10 mins, and if I vary from that because I have an appointment or something, I definitely pop by to say that I am taking a late/early lunch. It’s almost just common courtesy.

      I would disagree with other commentators as to if your boss needs to know /why/ you are taking off, but I am also in a position where coverage isn’t necessary. If you are a particularly private person you can just give very general responses such as “family obligations” or “spending time with friends”. But honestly I think that telling your boss that you are going on some super cool adventure will probably help your relationship with her.

      At the end of the day your boss /is/ superior to you. Yes, you should be treated like a human, but these things you have listed are pretty typical boss things.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe because you make errors like writing “hirer” instead of “higher” and “pass” instead of “past.”

          • October

            If we are being technical, then the first sentence….boss has a higher position than I DO (not “than me”). But that’s being overly nit-picky for an online post.

    • rosie

      I think your problem with her is that she’s a micromanager, not that she’s your manager (you need to suck it up and accept hierarchy in the workplace if the latter is actually your problem). I would suggest looking at askamanager[dot]org for ideas on how to work for a micromanager.

  2. Wild Chicken

    Does anyone have an Iphone app they can recommend that stores usernames and passwords for the various websites you use? I am currently carrying a 3-page document that has all my usernames and passwords — obviously that’s unsatisfactory from a security standpoint.

      • Anonymous

        +1 to Last Pass. I also love the random password generator and that it will save logins automatically when I have to a create new one.

      • anon

        +1. And it syncs between me and my husband, so if either of us gets hit by a bus, the other one can get into all the accounts.

    • CBus

      oPass. It’s 4-digit pin protected and encrypted. It allows you to store usernames, passwords, url’s, and other notes.

    • Anon Midwest

      I use One Safe. Fingerprint/password locked and can hold all of that sort of information. I think it can be used on the computer as well, but I don’t use that portion

    • Anonymous

      Do any of these Apps share the list among all of your devices? I have an iPad, android phone, PC.

      Also, do these Apps somehow sink with your online surfing, and “insert” in passwords as needed, or do you need to go open the App to get the password for each site you access? And is this App risky if you sometimes use Wifi in public places (ex. Starbucks)?

      • Ellen

        I use DASHLANE. The manageing partner paid for ALL of us to have a premium supscription, so I use it on my IPAD, Iphone and MacBook. Dad also uses Dashlane b/c of all the password’s he need’s to remember, includeing Merillynch, and he still uses his MIT U email address b/c peeople remember him from when he was a profesor there. He also has his STAMFORD U ID but he was NOT a full PROFESOR there. Use Dashlane. It is great and it work’s! YAY!!!

    • Baconpancakes

      Ugh this weather is ridiculous. And my building turned on the heat last week, and didn’t see any reason to turn it off when the temps were at 72 degrees outside at 10pm. We have no control over the heat at all in the apartments, so it was pretty brutal.

      • BabyAssociate

        In a non-heat/AC controlled building and I will say that I appreciate that my last power bill was all of $30 because of this weather!

      • Sydney Bristow

        Luckily my building turned the heat back off, but they made us all take out our window AC units this past weekend. The same letter we received about the AC also told us not to open our windows in the winter. Yeah, that’s not happening when the radiator heat makes it feel like a jungle in my apartment!

    • SD

      I don’t mean this as a criticism, I’m just curious- it looks kind of shapeless to me in the pics. Like it doesn’t have a defined waist or anything. Is it different in person? I ask because I’d love a dress like this, but I’m a pear, so loose, undefined dresses make me look bigger.

      • BabyAssociate

        It’s definitely on the loose side, not as fitted as the dress here. I’m bustier and find that the undefined dresses make me look as shapely as a refrigerator, but this has just enough cling in the chest and hips for me.

        • all about eevee

          Right, loose dresses with no defined waist make me look like a potato.

    • Anonymous

      Can you comment on the sleeve length and width? I am 5-4 and most knits have sleeves that are too long for me.

      • BabyAssociate

        Hmmm, the sleeves might be a little long for you. I’m 5’8″ and ordered an XS and the sleeves are the length. The sleeves are also very much fitted, so I’d think it would be easy to push or roll them up without them slipping down.

        • P

          Is it midi length on you? I’m a touch taller than 5-9, and I only wear flats. Midi length isn’t good on me, but do you think it would fall at the knee on me?

          • BabyAssociate

            Yeah I wouldn’t even say it was midi length for me. It hit maybe right at the bottom of my kneecap.

    • Edna Mazur

      Pretty! It is so cute I would be so tempted to wear it in 90 degree weather (hey offices are air conditioned right!:)

  4. Anonymous

    I wonder why the made the sleeves on the plus size version so much shorter than the straight size version. There can’t be that much heigh variation between the models, or is there?

    • Anonymous

      +1. I see this a lot. I personally hate 3/4 length sleeves because its (1) not flattering (2) not functional. If its cold enough for a sleeve, give me a sleeve! I also think it makes my arms look stubby.

      • Terry

        The straight size version sleeves are so long that they would interfere with using your hands. The 3/4 length version looks more intentional and neater to me.

        • Terry

          Plus, it’s acrylic, so won’t be very warm anyway. Signed, freezing in Chicago and it’s only October.

      • Anonymous

        3/4 length sleeves are actually more flattering for some of us because of our body shape.

        Signed,
        high waisted pear.

    • KateMiddletown

      I prefer 3/4 sleeves for work – it’s just more comfortable for typing on a computer all day.

  6. AttiredAttorney

    Looking for recommendations for a mid-week dinner restaurant in San Diego that will take reservations for a small group (six people) or not have a long wait. Staying out in the Mission Valley area, but not opposed to uber-ing to something really special/local. Ideally around the $30ish/person range. No dietary restrictions, but something that might have some healthy-ish options would be appreciated. Help!

    • Anonymous

      I’d recommend heading over to Hillcrest. I really like Arrivederci in Hillcrest. The Prado in Balboa Park is really nice as well, especially if you and your group are from out of town.

  7. Meredith Grey

    Thanks to the poster who recommended Allbirds sneakers to me last week to solve my need for supportive shoes for commuting without looking too frumpy. The are just heaven! I’m in love!

    • Scarlett

      That was me! So glad you love them too – they are my favorite knock around shoe.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I’m intrigued by them, but have large bunions. It seems like they sort of mold to your foot over time. Do you think they would work even though I normally limit myself to wide shoes?

      • Meredith Grey

        They have a lot of give, so I think it would work! I’m an 8.5 or a very comfortable 8W, and I ordered 9 and it’s sooooo comfy. I think I read they have a very generous no hassle return policy (and shipping is free), so I highly recommend ordering to try. Thanks again, Scarlett!!!!!

    • TorontoNewbie

      Would I be able to put insoles in? They look amazing but the international shipping is non-returnable…

      • Meredith Grey

        I think you could put in insoles. They have a removable insole as is, so I guess you could either take that out or put your insole on top of it if you have room. They say they are designed to wear without socks. Not sure what you want to do with that info, but seems like it might be relevant in this case some how…

  8. Leaving on a jet plane

    So excited…just booked a trip to Paris for a week that includes NYE. Any suggestions for plans on that night? Not looking for anything over the top expensive, and we’re not wild partiers. We just want dinner in a nice spot. Staying in the Marais. Thanks!

  9. admin help

    Guys, I need some advice on how to handle an admin assistant. She reports directly to me, and my problems fall into two categories:

    1) She’s responsible for managing our monthly newsletter, and the articles she sends me for proofing are poorly written and full of typos, despite my pointing them out, asking her to send me draft 2 instead of draft 1 “just so I have something to dig into”, and repeatedly referring her to our internal style guide for things like how to refer to our organization and how to appropriately insert people’s credentials. She’s not doing it, and I am so ragey at having to fix the same mistakes over and over and over and over again, and explain that typos are not appropriate and should not be blithely waved off as “human error” that I can’t come up with a response that is professional and not screaming. Help?

    2) Scheduling. She consistently over schedules me, including scheduling meetings on PTO days I’ve had booked for months, and pushing me to take conference calls almost daily on my commute home. Again, despite my asking her not to do this, I am still dealing with multiple pushbacks per week. Additionally, in her outgoing emails to others, she can come off as rude/blunt. I’ve started pointing this out – the last one I responded just to her, saying “this comes off a little harsh – was there some context I missed?” I got no response from her.

    How would you handle this? A final wrinkle: I am 32 and she is late fifties.

    • Anonymous

      1) write it up in her performance review.

      2) what are you doing? This day is clearly blocked off as PTO. Do not schedule me for meetings. You need to cancel this. No, I am not taking that call. I have told you this repeatedly. Stop doing it.

    • Anonymous

      Where is your back bone? For 1) just send it back and say “this is not ready for my review. Please fix the things we have talked about in the past and get it to me fixed ASAP” if it doesn’t get out mark that on her performance review.
      2) don’t stand for pushback. “Marie, I am not available. This is the end of this discussion.” Put it in her performance review and have a come to Jesus talk with her

    • the gold digger

      Are you the boss of the first poster?

      I, too, would be in a red rage over these kinds of errors. Everyone’s advice is great – I would go one step further and put her on a PIP. There is no excuse for this insubordination and sloppy, inattentive work.

    • KT

      Is your admin the Anonymous poster at 8:50?

      I think you need to have a more serious, in person conversation, not an email.

      Tell her all pieces need to be publish-ready before you see them, without typos and double-checked with the style guide. If you see typos right away, don’t sit there and make the edits, hand it right back to her and tell her it’s no where near ready for you to look at.

      And do not take calls or reschedule PTO for her mistakes. Cancel and make it clear it’s her f’up. Tell her it’s part of her performance review

    • Legally Brunette

      Schedule a meeting with her ASAP and tell her that you are putting her on a performance plan. Document every mistake she does. This sounds atrocious.

    • ITDS

      Are the things she schedules over your PTO and commute originating with people senior to you in the organization? If she thinks/knows that VP XX, who wants the call at 6:30PM, is senior to you, she may not know how to push back at VP XX without throwing you under the bus by letting VP XX know that you will have left the office by then.

      I schedule for very senior people, and sometimes the schedule preferences of those who are more junior in the organization don’t get the respect that they deserve.

    • Anonymous

      You need to address the fact that there is a pattern of these issues. It seems like she is focusing on the smallness of the errors rather than seeing the big picture. Ask a Manager (askamanager DOT org) has EXCELLENT advice on dealing with stuff like this.

    • Anonymous

      On (1), I would send it back to her and say, “I discovered several typographical errors. Please correct and get back to me when this is in final, reviewable form.” And keep sending it back to her. Do not correct the typos, just keep giving it back. This will stink for you at first, but if you keep doing the corrections, then you’ll keep getting work that needs corrections.

      On (2), I had an admin who kept doing this, including not allowing travel time. I began calendaring my commute time, and other time, on the calendar with giant letters that say “do not schedule”. It took some time, and we’ve had hiccups since, but it helped. I also tried to frame it as ‘how do you suggest I handle this conflict?’ I had a firm, but non-confrontational discussion about how it be for her if I booked meetings on her schedule on days she had calendared off.

      good luck

  10. SDAnon

    Would anyone like to shop vicariously for me? I work in a business casual environment with occasional days involving suiting and feel like my wardrobe is pretty “blah.”

  11. Cubicle Commiseration

    Can I get some cubicle commiseration please? I walked into my office this morning to find all of the overhead lights turned off and people’s small desk lamps turned on. My coworkers are all THRILLED with this. It is nearly pitch-black in here, with these small lamps just illuminating a fraction of each person’s desk. I’ve already voiced my opinion that I hate it and it will make it hard for me to stay awake at my desk, but they all love sitting in the dark. I feel like I am in an episode of the Twilight Zone.

    • KT

      This was me when I worked in a cube. My 2 cube mates were also in marketing, so we convinced facilities to take out the overhead lights over our area so we could have darkness. It did wonders for my focus and working ability.

      When the overheads were on, I would get such bad headaches and my eyes would hurt.

      Our one teammate hated it, so our department bought her a desk lamp and a floor lamp so she could have the light she needed

    • Cb

      There is an office like this on my floor and it looks creepy and horrible. Probably a health and safety issue but if they insist, could they unscrew the overhead bulbs above their desks so they didn’t have overhead light but you do?

      • Cubicle Commiseration

        That would be my preference, but even the people in my immediate vicinity prefer sitting in the dark so I don’t think I’d be successful trying for that. It just seems so strange to go from lights on (like pretty much every other public location during working hours) to ALL the lights off. Unfortunately I’m in the clear minority.

        • S in Chicago

          I was you. I was a young editor (yes, all day PROOFREADING) when the nut next to me had them turn off the lights. I tried every side lamp you can imagine. And I swear the lack of light was a huge energy suck for me–like so hard to stay awake. I didn’t speak up. And then it had gone on so long that I felt like I couldn’t. I’ve never celebrated so hard as when Dracula retired and I could get light again. Please don’t be me. Speak up now. Today. Don’t let this go or you may be miserably sitting in the dark for years.

          • Cubicle Commiseration

            I’ve spoken up, but I’m being met with shock and confusion and testimonials about how much better it is with the lights off. I’m worried nothing I can say will result in a change. I feel like I’m at a loss.

    • X

      Heh. Maybe you walked into my office. This morning I was the first one in. I had a migraine so I only turned on the lights on the right side, not all of them. It wasn’t until an hour later that someone turned the left side lights on…

      It never occurred to me to just turn my desk light on. Next time I’m going to do that!

    • Sydney Bristow

      I’ve been both you and your coworkers in this situation. I’m normally the first person in and back when my office had windows it was bright enough for me to work really early in the morning without turning on the lights. Coworkers who came in after me simply turned on the lights and it wasn’t a big deal. Everyone needs to be able to see to work. Likewise, I’ve sometimes come in later and whoever came in first didn’t turn on all the lights. I cheerfully just say good morning and turn the lights on. In your situation, I might just get up say that the current situation isn’t working for you and turn the lights on.

  12. Winter Travel

    DH and I are considering a winter trip during the week that spans Christmas to NYE. We live in FL, so we want some place cold, snowy, and picturesque. Since we have less than a week, we ideally want to go someplace that is easily accessible. We won’t be doing any skiing because I’m pg., but we do otherwise enjoy the mountains. Any suggestions?

    • the gold digger

      Santa Fe is beautiful and does not get too cold or wet, ie, you get the pretty, nice part of winter without the horrible, soul-crushing bitter cold and wind and sloppy slushy parking lots and sidewalks that ruin your shoes.

      • Curiouser

        +1 or Albuquerque. We rented a house with a hot tub once, had snow and warm and mountains and stars.

      • Anonymous

        That was my first thought too. Also start by pulling up your airport’s Wikipedia page and seeing where you can fly directly. If you’re looking for easy travel, a direct flight is always a good starting point.

      • Shopaholic

        Do you want more of a city experience or something smaller? I would say either Montreal or Quebec City. I don’t really think there’s enough to do in Banff/lake Louise to take up an entire week. But if you like skiing, there are some great mountains in BC/Alberta. I think there’s more to do in Quebec City/Montreal area.

      • Senior Attorney

        Quebec City is fabulous! Like going to France without the transatlantic flight! If you can swing it, stay in the Fairmont Chateau Frontenac.

      • Walnut

        Quebec City is so lovely – I imagine it would be magical in the winter. We had a great experience at Hotel du Vieux in their lower level suite. Plus, they bring a basket of croissants and breakfast items to your room every morning – heaven!!

      • anon hawker

        But crowded! Beautiful. Would Lake Louise be more crowded? … I’m jealous.

      • Winter Travel

        Good idea! We went to Banff one summer for our honeymoon, and I am sure it is even more beautiful in the winter.

  13. sombra

    creepy crawlie help: Recently moved into the lower level of a split level home. So while it is technically above ground, i guess half of it is not? Anyway, it’s also on a drainage easement so everything is… moist. Outside that is, we run a dehumidifier all day downstairs. But yesterday I saw something that made me jump out of my skin, that oh-god-what-is-that-and-why-is-it-so-fast-and-hairy-jesus-christ kind of moment. (My partner beat it with a magazine so hard there was nothing to identify after). What do you do to keep bugs out or away, especially pet friendly methods since we have a cat that has free roam of the house. TIA

    • Bug Help

      Without knowing exactly what it was you beat to a pulp, try some regular Draino treatments of your sinks, bathtub, and toilet (and any other similar source). I had issues with “thousand-legged things” – really giant centipedes – in similar homes. They come up through the pipes. *shudder* But Draino once a week for four weeks mostly took care of it. It is always worse during season changes for some reason.

      • lost academic

        Also, I keep the tub drains closed in places that have issues like that (various homes in the southeast had that issue and it really helped just to close the tub drains)

    • Anononon

      I’m going to guess that’s a house centipede, since that is exactly my reaction every time. I step on them a lot, though I know I shouldn’t because they eat bugs I like even less. They scare the bejeezus out of me though.

      • pugsnbourbon

        House centipedes are the absolute worst. How are they so fast and why are there so many legs?!??!?

        I try to keep as much leaf litter and debris away from the house as I can. They like to hide in there and sneak into any little cranny they can.

    • Carrie...

      My Dad lives in an old house, and he had trouble with both Mice and Bugs. We found great solutions that were cheap, non-toxic and pretty easy.

      For the mice/rodents, we got those high frequency sound emitters. Although they get mixed reviews on Amazon etc.. our local amazing hardware store said that the poor results were because people didn’t read the directions and didn’t place the emitters appropriately. You plug each one into an outlet that must not be blocked by furniture and it emits the noxious sound into the room. We plugged one into each outlet in the major rooms where rodents were seen, or we were most concerned about.

      https://jet.com/product/detail/c5577193f7af4f2d8f488e0a7f3940a5?jcmp=pla:ggl:gen_home_garden_a3:household_supplies_a3_other:na:PLA_345531780_23673067020_pla-177733757820:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&ds_c=gen_home_garden_a3&ds_cid=&ds_ag=household_supplies_a3_other&product_id=c5577193f7af4f2d8f488e0a7f3940a5&product_partition_id=177733757820&gclid=CjwKEAjws5zABRDqkoOniLqfywESJACjdoiGHiDOqi33XKEgWeaGVqQp9pLn5TMQslwxs4h9U7-HlRoCVTHw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

      You also need to take a good look at your home, find any possible entry point, and seal it up. We used tape to close openings above baseboards in the kitchen, stuffed rags into openings around sink drains etc.. You can find other recs online.

      For bugs, you need to keep all food sealed in containers/ziplocks/twist-ties/clips etc… and MUST clean the kitchen counters and sink drain every night. Just don’t leave food / food debris out. This helps a ton.

      And if you have water bugs/roaches….

      Buy a big container x 2 of bleach. Poor one of them into your catch basin. Take the other and pour a good amount into every sink/tub train in the house. Let it sit for 15-45 minutes. Then run water in all drains for about 15 minutes.

      Then make a simple “poison”, if needed for roaches. By the old fashioned laundry detergent Borax. And use this recipe to make little balls of sugar/flour/Borax, and leave them in nooks/cranny’s where bugs have been seen. I also buy a few of those roach sticky traps, and leave them in a few places. That way if you suddenly see that you have caught some bugs, it may be time to re-bleach, or replace the Borax balls.

      There’s a recipe for the killer balls here

      http://housewifehowtos.com/clean/how-to-get-rid-of-cockroaches/

      So …. buy the sound emitters for the mice, bleach/borax/sticky traps for the bugs. Seal up all the food, and holes to enter the house.

  14. Ugh dating and divorce

    I filed for divorce a few months ago and have had no contact with my ex except through lawyers. We are just waiting for the clock to run and the divorce to be finalized, which it will be, before the end of the year. I am 28 years old.

    I haven’t started proactively dating but randomly met someone over the weekend and then ended up spending the evening with him. we had an amazing time BUT I didn’t bring up the divorce.

    Now he wants to go out on a date and I don’t know what to do. Should I bring it up before? During? I don’t know what to do and am afraid I already ruined things but not telling him right away.

    • Anonymous

      I’d mention before things go much further, “I filed for divorce XX months ago, the paper work is all dealt with and it’ll be final on DATE.” I can’t imagine it would be an issue for him, but I think it would be an issue from an honesty perspective if you end up dating longer and he finds out in like February that you were still technically married when you started dating.

      Think about how you’d feel on the other side if you dated a guy for a while and found out much later than he was still technically married when you started dating.

    • Anonymous

      I’d probably tell him on this date, but I don’t think you did anything wrong by not bringing it up before. If you’ve already filed and will be legally divorced by year end, it’s almost in the past and not something you really need to disclose immediately. If you were separated and hadn’t filed yet or the divorce was contentious and likely to go on for a while, it would be a very different story.

    • cbackson

      So he does not know that you are still married or he doesn’t know that you were ever married? It’s not good that it didn’t come up, because it’s a bit weird not to mention it. If the divorce was firmly in the rearview mirror, I would feel differently, but since it’s very much a live issue, then yeah, he may be surprised in a bad way.

      I’d advise bringing it up during the date (not prior, because it’ll be too hard to read his responses). Bear in mind that he’s likely to have some questions about whether you’re ready to be dating yet, so you may want to think about how to articulate why you’re ready to be out there again.

      • Emmer

        Why is it weird that it she didn’t mention it? She just met this guy over the weekend, it would seem weird to me if she did share something that messy and personal. I do think she should bring it up on the date, but given that their interactions so far have been casual I don’t think there’s a reason she should have mentioned it earlier.

        • cbackson

          I read “ended up spending the evening with him” as more focused one on one time (not necessarily s*x but something beyond casual interaction), but they may not have been correct.

        • Anon

          Yeah, I’d be more concerned if she had mentioned it during their first encounter. That would reek of “not even close to moved on.”

    • Anonymous

      Wait what? Nah. You’re single and free to mingle. Being divorced isn’t leprosy. You don’t have to disclose it before dating or make a point of bringing it up on a first date. At some point it will come up in convo- mention it then. If you’re getting serious and it somehow hasn’t come up, bring it up.

      • Anonymous

        Oh sorry reading fail, you are still married. In that case, I’d mention it on your first date. Briefly. Btw, I’m going through a divorce.

    • Anonymous

      I’m in the same situation, and I wouldn’t mention it until maybe the 3rd or 4th date. See if this goes anywhere. Bringing it up too soon might scare him off.

      • Anonymous

        See, I would be livid if a guy only told me he was married after we had been on 3 dates. Date one, okay. Date three? I don’t date people who are married no matter what their complex situation is, and I would be ticked.

      • cbackson

        Mmmm, I think that sitting on the fact that she’s still married for 3 or 4 dates is going to come off as dishonest. It would take serious effort for me to go 3 or 4 dates without mentioning that I was once married and I’ve been divorced for 5 years. If she’s talking about her life in any degree of depth, I don’t know how the OP would avoid mentioning her situation without actively seeking to conceal it.

        Seriously, if I went on 4 dates with a guy before he told me he was still married, I would be scared off. Not because of the divorce (although as a divorced person who remembers what the experience was like, I would have misgivings about dating someone for whom the divorce was still ongoing or fresh), but because of the concealment.

      • BabyAssociate

        While going through a divorce wouldn’t necessarily be an immediate dating dealbreaker for me, I’d definitely want to know that before date 3 or 4.

      • Anon

        Um, negative ghostwriter. I’m divorced and naturally date divorced men. It either comes up in the first coffee date if it feels natural or on the second date/first real date. If you don’t tell me, I assume you’re crazy/have issues/have all the drama, llama, and I want nothing to do with you. If you can’t calmly and factually mention to me early on that you were married before, I assume All The Red Flags.

      • nope

        “Bringing it up too soon might scare him off.”

        See, I hate this. You’re attempting to get someone emotionally invested in you before you tell them something that could be a very justifiable deal breaker for them. That just transfers your terrible situation into their problem. People have the right to decide what types of relationships they get into, and getting into a relationship with someone who is still married is a thing a lot of people wouldn’t choose. Plus, lying by omission is a red flag.

        Signed,

        Been left in the dark until there was enough time for me to be “invested.”

    • HnH

      If there’s a meal involved, then bring it up after the main course during desserts. If things get awkward, at least you would’ve already enjoyed your dinner and almost on your way out.
      It also allows you to have almost a full date during which to have a better impression of each other.

    • Senior Attorney

      I think this can come up pretty naturally during the date.

      “So what have you been up to?”

      “Well, the biggest thing is getting my divorce finalized. I guess I didn’t mention it before, but we were married for X years, separated on Y date, and the clock will run out and the divorce will be final by the end of the year. Can’t wait to have that completely behind me! What’s up with you?”

      • Anon

        SA, you are so hilarious that I’m sure your delivery seemed natural. But if I asked someone a low-key question like “what’re you up to?” and they started talking about finalizing a divorce I’d be pretty taken aback. I would be more inclined to bring it up specifically, as in “hey, before we go any further I just wanted to let you know that…”

        • Anonymous

          +1 This casual way of doing it (“What’s up with you?” “I’m getting divorced, what’s up with you?”) is very weird to me. Better to just be direct and say “I just wanted to let you know that….” as Anon at 12:04 suggested.

          • Nati

            I’m Anon above and forgot to change back to my usual name.

            Anyways, yes, I think a more direct approach would work better for most people (depending on their own personality and communication style). I’ve been dating recently and am seeing a guy now that I really like. After 6 dates, he very casually told me that three weeks before we met he had had his heartbroken. I sort of got the sense from how he presented it that he’s not over it and also felt disrespected that he thought it was the kind of thing to bring up mid-conversation about something else.

        • Senior Attorney

          LOL honestly it seems perfectly natural to me but plainly I am out of touch. And certainly I wouldn’t expect him to respond with “Oh, I’m going to see the Cubs this weekend.” But you have to admit it would get the conversation started!

          In my defense, I think it would seem way more normal in my Baby Boomer demographic than for somebody the OP’s age.

    • New Divorcee

      So I went through a similar situation. We were separated for almost a year, I dated a guy who knew the situation. That didn’t work out and I started online dating, where I met my present boyfriend. Before we met in person he asked if I had been married before, and if I had kids. I said yes I’d been married but no kids – didn’t get into more details. On our first date he asked how long I’d been divorced and then I told him we’d been separated for over a year but not divorced. I was worried he was going to freak out, and he probably did a little internally but he handled it well. I filed for divorce about a week later! My state has a rather long waiting period unfortunately but we continued dating and now my divorce is final.

      In retrospect I wish I would have filed right away, I regret putting my boyfriend in that rather awkward situation. But luckily my story ended well.

  15. Beth

    At what point do you draw the line between behavior caused by (medicated) mental illness and rudeness? One of my sisters has recently (4-5 years ago; she’s 30 now) been diagnosed with bipolar and anxiety. Rightfully, the family has been supportive, walking on eggshells, and given her a lot of space as she heals/deals with her diagnosis.

    She’s since gone to grad school, gotten a steady job, has gotten married, is in as-needed therapy and sees her doc regularly, and is by all outside criteria stable.

    But she’s also incredibly rude, self-centered, inconsiderate, and increasingly unpleasant to be around. She’s always been kind of a brat, and I don’t know if it’s appropriate to try and talk to her / work through how I’m feeling, or just acknowledge that this is her disease and let it go. I’m just having trouble separating “bitchy sister” from “sick sister”. Absent her illness, I would not stand for the way she acts, full stop. It’s getting worse, not better.

    For example, she comes to visit me or my parents (we live in California about 3 hours apart; she lives in The midwest), then spends the entire time glued to her phone (doing nothing- mainly she’s on Facebook). She’s a terrible houseguest. This last weekend, she “surprised” me by flying in last minute for my daughter’s 5th birthday party. It was super sweet and we blew up an air mattress and welcomed her with open arms (but would have liked some notice, mostly because it’s hard to take time off work last minute…). However, she’s been here for three days. She told us she came to visit the kids, but wants nothing to do with them and keeps borrowing our car to run misc. errands. I assume she needs a break, and that she can’t find it in our 5br 4000 sq ft house.

    Our kids will go try and play with her, and have to ask her 3-4 times to do something because she’s on her phone (again, not working). She leaves her towels all over the place, used my shower this AM (didn’t ask, and since we have TWO other bathrooms with showers that are ready for guests I’d have preferred she use one of those…) which was too much in my space for me, and also, made me late for work. She borrowed socks, pajamas, and my razor without asking. Hasn’t offered to cook and just generally bums around. We also have a new baby that she keeps saying she wants to hold/snuggle/visit with, but gets annoyed after 30 seconds (baby is not fussy).

    She also “can’t function” (her words) after 4, so she goes upstairs and shuts herself in her room. When we ask her to make any kind of decision or do is a favor, she gets super flustered and “just can’t.”

    Is there a good place to go to have someone help me tease out what is or is not appropriate to push back on? Part of this is just sister stuff, and I really want to just be like “b*tch stay out of my panty drawer, put your phone down and pick up your towels!” But I also *dont* want to overstep if she truely can’t help herself.

    • Anon

      I have bipolar and anxiety, and this is just being a b*tch.

      While it’s true I have my bad days where getting out of bed seems impossible, I’m generally well-treated and it’s under control. There ARE days where I just can’t pick up towels and just wallow, but it’s rare and I would have such anxiety about people judging me, there’s no way I would go to someone else’s home if I was in the mood.

      If she’s able to hold down a job and get a degree, she’s certainly functioning, and this is not about being mentally ill. This is about being entitled and a brat.

      It sounds like you have been walking on eggshells because of her diagnosis. And while I get it, and I respect you’re trying to be understanding, a mental illness isn’t an excuse for bad behavior.

      • Beth

        This is super helpful. That was exactly my suspicion, but my family is so sensitive (she had a major break 5 years ago, which is when all this came bubbling up and she got her dx) and ready to chalk up her behavior to her mental health issues vs just having a discussion.

        • Anon

          I get it. I really do.

          But it’s important to remember that bipolar disorder, while a serious mental illness, does not cause delusions, hallucinations or a break from reality. We are able to understand social norms, ground rules and boundaries. Her deciding to break all of them isn’t a mental illness thing, it’s an entitled brat thing who is used to getting what she wants.

          I have some really bad days where no one should be around me. But even at my worst, it would never occur to me to appear at my sibling’s house and borrow his car. That’s just ridiculous. Even my manic brain understands offensive acts and consequences.

          Instead of coddling and enabling her bad behavior, I would have a firm conversation with her. Make it clear that you love and support her, but you cannot host her unexpectedly and she cannot use your things. If she does appear out of the blue, don’t let her stay with you. Tell her to get a hotel and that you have work.

          • Beth

            My sister actually has had pretty severe hallucinations in the past. Not sure if that’s a confounding issue.

          • Anonymous

            If you sister is having hallucinations that is not bi-polar nor anxiety, and mental illnesses that do cause hallucinations can 100% play into the type of behavior your describing. If she really is just bi-polar and has anxiety, then yeah she’s just being a brat, but it seriously sounds like she may need another mental evaluation.

          • Anon

            Hallucinations are not a bipolar thing…that’s usually other mental illnesses. It may be she’s been misdiagnosed

          • Anon

            Regardless, unless she is actively hallucinating that a towel demon demands she leaves towels on the floor, you can still set boundaries and she can still function. If she has a job, marriage, and can travel on her own, she can manage to obey your home rules.

          • Anonymous

            Bipolar disorder actually can cause psychosis, including delusions and auditory hallucinations.

          • all about eevee

            I have a family member who is bipolar and she definitely does hallucinate.

    • Anon

      I totally feel you on the walking on eggshells thing. I have a close family member who I suspect could be bipolar (in and out of therapy and a residential program over the years, but no diagnosis) and her entire family walked on eggshells around her for years instead of addressing the bratty behavior. It’s a fine line between bratty and ill, but something has to be done because it brings the ENTIRE family down. I hope to figure out what to do about situations like that by the time I have my own kids in case it happens to one of them. In the meantime, good luck; I would suggest being direct because being indirect never did sh*t in my case. If you can have a clear conversation about boundaries, it might get the point across, but be warned she will probably freeze you out and act completely hurt.

    • Sydney Bristow

      Ok, before you got into your examples, I immediately thought of the “get off my foot” example. I’ll like to it in my reply but if it doesn’t show up google “I need you to get off my foot.”

      I might let the post-4pm thing go because that at least seems possibly connected to her mental health issues. But the others are simply rude behavior in my mind. It has been 4-5 years since diagnosis and she’s stable so I don’t think you can walk on eggshells around her forever.

    • CountC

      Back in the deep throes of my depression and anxiety, I was a class A B#$*h. While yes, it was challenging to work through my illness(es), it was not an excuse for my $hitty behavior. I have since apologized for my behavior and absolutely recognize it cannot happen again no matter how poorly I feel.

      Your sister sounds like a major brat and, as already mentioned, her illness is not an excuse to treat people poorly. I agree with the advice to be direct about it. Set boundaries and stick with them.

    • Betty

      I concur with the others that mental illness is not license to be a jerk. My mantra when dealing with loved ones with mental illness is this: you cannot control their behavior, but you can set reasonable boundaries in how you, your children and your home will be treated. In other words, it is perfectly ok to say that if she is going to stay with you, then she will not leave towels on the floor/go through your clothes, etc.

    • Jitterbug

      A person with mental illness may be suffering, and may not always be 100% in control of what they’re feeling (hence why they call most of these illnesses disorders), but they’re still responsible for how they act and how they treat others. You step on someone’s foot, it doesn’t matter if you did it on purpose or you were just clumsy, you still hurt their foot and you need to a) apologize and b) try harder not to step on people’s feet.

      I’d cut her some slack on her need for alone time, but you should tell her she needs to pick up after herself, ask before borrowing/using your stuff, request that she be present when around people, and finally, make it clear that she cannot show up out of the blue again. I’m sure she’s doing most of these things because she assumes it must be fine if no one says anything, so say something.

    • Anonymous

      It doesn’t matter. My brother is seriously mentally ill and sometimes he is a jerk. Whatever causes it, I take him back to his group home when I can’t take it anymore or when his language is inappropriate in front of my son. You don’t have to figure out the line. I have been dealing with this for 30 years. I love my brother to death and he stays with me and my family for the weekend every other week. I pay for his phone and given him money for vaping and snacks and buy all his clothes. I enjoy him most of the time as he is quite brilliant and very funny. But he can be a lot to take and I am not Jesus.

    • H

      I didn’t read the others but I have a family member who was diagnosed and have not experienced any of the rudeness you described. I’ve experienced other problems, but I really think it is a personality thing. Definitely work on setting boundaries, dealing with someone who has a mental illness can be draining.

    • SD

      I think drawing firm, healthy boundaries is one of the most loving things you can do for someone who has trouble doing it for themselves. Come up with your boundaries in advance and be consistent with them, and firm in enforcing them. Be steady and nonreactive when she tries to violate them, or if she throws a fit at not getting her way. You can do this as a family, but even if the rest of your family doesn’t, you still can as an individual.

    • Anonymous

      I feel you. My sister is also bipolar but medicated, in therapy, and able to hold down a job and parent her daughter effectively.

      But her temper is something to behold, and about half of my family is so afraid of setting her off that they let her get away with all kinds of sh*tty behavior just to avoid the fight.

      I don’t let her get away with her sh*t. Mostly, I calmly use my words and tell her what is not and is not acceptable about her behavior, even when she’s screaming at me. Sometimes, she refuses to speak to me for periods of time after I’ve told her, calmly, that something wasn’t acceptable. We don’t have absolutely the best relationship, but, I think a certain amount of her refusing to speak to me is more acceptable to me than being her doormat.

      So I guess what I’m saying is, I think you should calmly and clearly explain your boundaries, but be prepared for it to not go well. That’s not cause she’s bipolar, it’s because she sounds like kind of a b*tch.

      • Beth

        You just hit it- it’s the temper. Or the highs/lows of the reaction to criticizm (total indignation or bursting into tears over something as silly as “pick up your towel”

        • Anonymous

          Yeah, the thing is, with my sister, the indignation level usually has no relationship to what we’re talking about. It has to do with her overall mood about her life or her day. If she’s in a bad mood, it doesn’t matter what I criticize her about, she’s going to blow up. If she’s in a good mood, sometimes she takes it on board and tries to do better. So I ignore the indications about her mood and criticize her fairly if it’s warranted. If she blows up in response I don’t consider that my fault or my problem.

          Like I said, this isn’t a formula for having a perfect relationship with your sister. But I prefer this to the alternative, which is me internalizing my irritation until it turns into resentment.

    • lawsuited

      I have a sister like this (slightly different diagnosis, but similar course of treatment and similar current behaviour). I’m attending therapy myself to work through my guilt and worry about her diagnosis, my anger and frustration with her current behaviour, and set some boundaries that will allow me to have a happy relationship with her. I just realized there is nothing that I can do to make her different, so I need to learn to manage my interactions with her so I can manage my emotions about her.

  16. Closet Redux

    Alright, y’all level with me: are riding boots over? If not, how do I wear them without looking dated? Are booties here to stay? How about Chelsea boots?

    • BabyAssociate

      I sure hope riding boots aren’t over!!! Even if they are, I shall still be waiting the pair I’ve had for 5 years.

      • KateMiddletown

        Um yeah. They cost a ton of $$ so I’m going to be wearing them until they fall apart. (Also, flash forward to 5 years from now and they will be “in” again, mark my words.)

    • Anon

      Honestly, who cares? Riding boots are some of the most practical and classic shoes to wear in the winter and being in charge of your own style exudes more confidence than being a slave to trends.

      • Knee high boots

        +1. My cold weather uniform is dark wash jeans, black jeans, or black cords tucked into flat black knee high boots, with a shirt/sweater, a blazer, and a warm scarf. Chelsea boots and booties don’t work for me, and I don’t care. I wear what I like.

    • Anonymous

      They’re no longer super on trend, but they’re a classic that will never go out of style, imo anyway. I think over the knee boots look a little dated now though.

    • KT

      Just rock them. I love riding boots and I don’t care if it’s dated.

      I would, however, skip the riding boots/puffer vest Han Solo look

      • MargaretO

        +1 I think they are “over” if you care about being super on trend (I am vain and care about this a lot and don’t wear them anymore). But they are a classic and the only time I notice someone wearing them looks dated is when its the whole look from 2 years ago – riding boots, leggings, stripey long sleeve tshirt, j crew puffer vest, etc.

        If you want to switch them out I love my chelsea boots and find them to be super versatile, I’m considering getting a more water proof/winterized pair, and I also have some over the knee boots that I like a lot. I’m not sure how the above poster thinks over the knee boots are dated I still feel like they are everywhere in fashion magazines/blogs/etc. They are so warm in the winter and its great. I also really like the look of the mid calf boots that are being shown now but I can’t decide if they are too unflattering for my thunderous thighs.

          • Anonymous

            I thought stripes, and Breton tops in particular, were super fashionable at the moment, just not with tall boots and puffy vests?

        • MargaretO

          Breton stripes will always be in fashion!!! (I hope) They are literally the only pattern I wear at the moment, not kidding. I just don’t wear them the same way I used to – right now I wear mine with an a line mini skirt and chelsea boots.

          • Senior Attorney

            I am on my second identical Lands End (of all places) Breton stripe top because I loved the first one so much I literally wore it out. And I agree that tall boots/vest/scarf is looking kind of dated, which is sad because I loved that look.

            I like to wear mine to work with mustard pencil skirt and navy blazer and leopard pumps.

          • MargaretO

            That outfit sounds fantastic! I will definitely check out lands end when my current one wears out (inevitably sooner than I would like because its from h&m). I guess I was never that big of a fan of that look/didn’t think it was super flattering on me, so I am not that sad to see it go. I’m very excited that the 70s are back and gleefully running around buying burnt sienna mini skirts and bell sleeve tops.

        • anonymous

          What are Chelsea boots? Is it just a more descriptive term for “booties” or is there some other defining characteristic?

      • lost academic

        Unless, you know, you’re actually riding. Then, it will always be in style, and warm, and comfortable.

    • Anne Shirley

      I love my riding boots! Leggings, jeans, dresses, you name it. I find booties to be cute for fall, but once it gets cold, I need something that covers more of my legs.

      (DSW is my boot heaven, but I find the website a bit overwhelming with too many choices, so I usually just browse in-store)

    • Anon

      Depends on how you wear them. If the look you’re going for is “trendy,” you will end up looking dated — because riding boots are not trendy at the moment. But if you wear them a la Ralph Lauren (think cords, suede, lots of brown), I think that’s a classic look that doesn’t go out of style.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, quite dated and never very attractive. They have such a militaristic vibe!

  17. FormerAcademic

    Advice request: Is it insane to plan to be pregnant or with a young baby during law school? If it’s not insane, then does anyone have any tips? Did you need to take different approaches to studying?

    For context: I am 36 and transitioning to law as a second career. My first career was as an academic in the US. I will be going to law school to become a solicitor in the UK, which takes two years, and then you spend two years in a training contract at a firm before finally being qualified. My goal is to work for a top-50 but not top-10 commercial law firm in London. If I was younger then I could delay having a baby until my legal career is established, but I don’t really have time to delay. Am I setting myself an impossible task with the baby + career transition plan, or is it do-able given sufficient planning and determination?

    • Sydney Bristow

      I don’t have kids, but a close friend in law school had a baby during our second year. It totally worked for her. I think the timing worked out that she gave birth around Thanksgiving and managed to be able to study for finals then had winter break off. Timing might not be as great for you, but she’s said that it really was the perfect time to have a baby.

    • Anonymous

      No I think it’s a great idea! Law school is way easier than working full time.

      • lawsuited

        +1 Law school was way easier than working full-time as a lawyer, and way, waaaay easier than trial.

    • BabyAssociate

      Unless law school in the UK is significantly different than in the US (which it very well may be, I don’t know) then yes, this sounds insane to me.

      • Anonymous

        Why? It only gets harder after law school. Having an infant as a 2L/3L is much more manageable than having an infant as a junior associate (unless money for childcare is a big concern).

    • Anonymous

      A friend had a baby during her 2nd year of law school in the US, and it worked out well for her. I think it would be easier than starting out working full time and needing to take maternity leave.

    • Betty

      I would not have said this at the time, but law school can be much more laid back than the practice of law (especially biglaw). Plus, you have a bit more control over your schedule in law school than in practice. And, honestly, being “established” in the law takes more than a few years. It can take a solid 4 years (on the early side) or more like 10 to truly be established with any time of control. Go for it! Also, check out the blog by lag liv, who had a kid in law school (and now has two more and works at the SEC). Love her blog.

    • Anonymous

      The only advice I have on this is anecdotal:

      One friend had 2 babies during the 3 years of law school and said it was an overall positive experience and manageable.

      Another friend had a baby 1 month before law school graduation and said studying for the bar with a newborn was pure hell. She passed but it was a lot of stress and she says that if she had it to do over again, she would’ve taken the January bar the year of her graduation (while pregnant) rather than the July bar (with an infant).

      • Anonypotamus

        I had 2 babies during law school (delivered 2nd a month after graduation, so I think qualifies) and agree. I did not take July bar, took the following January bar.

    • Anonymous

      Assuming UK law school is like US law school, law school is much, MUCH easier than practicing law. I probably only worked on school stuff 25-30 hours a week, plus your schedule is very flexible. Once you are in practice at a private firm, you will have no flexibility whatsoever and be working upwards of 60 hours a week every week. I would plan to get pregnant ASAP so your baby is young while you’re in school.

    • Senior Attorney

      I did it, 30 years ago. My baby was born at the very beginning of my second year of law school, and it worked out very well for me. As others have said, your schedule is much more flexible in law school (especially after the first year).

      If I had it to do over again, I might have considered taking an extra year to get through law school, or at least an extra semester. I ended up having to take 19 units my last semester to graduate on time, and my grades suffered a bit so I slipped out of the top 10% of the class, which was irksome.

      But generally I think it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      A close friend of mine had her little girl a month before our third year started. She brought her to class every day. They sat near the door. If her daughter got fussy, she was out of there. She had excellent support at school, both from classmates and faculty- a few of us were on her list of “She will not stop crying and I cannot miss class- can you come walk her up and down the halls?” No pressure from her- but we all loved it if we could help her out because baby time rocked. I think what made it possible was that she had people who could help her out at home and at school.

    • Anonymous

      I had my daughter right after fall 2L semester ended. Attending law school with a baby was fine, but the timing was not ideal. If you are on law review, the fall 2L semester is the most demanding semester of law school. It was not fun having hyperemesis while doing endless cite-checks and writing my note was horrific. I was also lucky that I already had a job lined up and was not applying for summer associate positions, as I would have been heavily pregnant during OCI.

    • Anonymous

      I had my daughter right after fall 2L semester ended. Attending law school with a baby was fine, but the timing was not ideal. If you are on law review, the fall 2L semester is the most demanding semester of law school. It was horrific having hyperemesis while doing endless cite-checks and writing my note. I was also lucky that I already had a job lined up and was not applying for summer associate positions, as I would have been heavily pregnant during OCI.

    • Davis

      My mom started law school when I started kindergarten. My older siblings and I did just fine and my mom did well in law school (e.g. scholarship, writing for law review). If you have a (supportive) partner, that would help, but if you’ll be a single parent that shouldn’t rule this out.

    • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

      Echoing others, it would likely work out better to have a baby during school than during practice. I have seen women do both.

      DH and I had an unplanned child during law school. It was great because I actually had time to spend with my older child and my baby throughout the day. The only thing I would have changed was that I was more than 8 months pregnant during interview season. Timing could have been a bit better.

    • full of ideas

      I say go for it. The best time would be to have the kid in May after your first year. You’ll have the summer off and not be pregnant for interviewing when fall roles around (not that it should matter, but it does :( )

    • Anon English solicitor

      Late I know, but hoping OP will see this. I went to law school in England (admittedly a while ago: 2003-5) and work as a solicitor there now, but also lived in CA for a couple of years more recently and took the bar there.

      Law school in England is not the same as the US at all. The first year was the tough academic stuff and I remember it as very full on (coming straight from undergrad English lit) but the second year was much, much easier. In fact, it was actually easy. They were two separate one year courses and I don’t know if you could easily take time off from either.

      I trained at an international commercial firm (outside London) and during my training contract my hours were completely unpredictable and I was expected to be on call whenever I was needed. There was a sense that it was a two year job interview. I’m pregnant now, and think I would have really struggled if I had been pregnant during my training contract.

      My feeling is that during law school (and especially the second year) would be easier than during your training contract.

      • FormerAcademic

        Thanks for your comment! I had heard from a friend that the LPC (2nd year) is easier than the GDL (1st year), and my guess was that having a kid during the LPC that would be easier than during a training contract. All the lawyers I know in the UK are guys, though, and they are super naive about the impact that pregnancy and kids have on women’s careers. I am hopeful that I will be able to arrange things with the law school to take a term or so off around the birth.

  18. In-law Issues

    How much grandparent time is normal or expected for grandparents living in town? My husband and I both work full time and his parents want to see the kids every weekend. I want to spend the little time I have home with my kids each week with my kids and not trying to fit in other people into our weekend (or move around necessary errands or events because of them). To prevent drop-ins, I routinely schedule nights out on Saturday so they can babysit. I hate asking them to come over in the daytime, because the visits turn into 3-4 hour events.

    My parents live in-town as well. My mom picks my son up from MDO 1-2x a week and stays for an hour to visit before my husband and I get home from work (the kids stay with a nanny during the day). When they babysit, they come shortly before we leave and head out almost immediately after we get home. My in-laws stay to watch SNL with us after we get home (when I want to get in bed). I have tried to schedule outings outside the house, but then my MIL asks my son if he wants them to drive him home and then they stay another 2-3 hours or until after bedtime. It’s getting to the point where I am seething every time they want to come over and their only fault is wanting to see my kids. My husband is very close with his parents and gets extremely defensive whenever I try to address these issues. Does anyone have any recommendations on how I can deal with this without wrecking my marriage? They were not around this much until we had kids.

    • mascot

      Can your kids do overnight visits with the grands at their house? That way they get concentrated doses of kids, you get some adult time with your husband, and no one is in your space. Or, could they do things with kids during the week?

    • Anonymous

      If your parents see their grandkids once a week, it doesn’t seem cray that his want to as well.

      Start setting some boundaries. “No, we don’t want to watch SNL, bed time for us, thanks so much, bye.” “Thanks for the offer mom but I’ll go home with my wife and children, good to see you, bye.”

      You’re fighting that you never want them around on weekends or that once a week is too much, and you won’t win that (although I’m totally on your side!). Fight instead that bed time is important, that time just with your little family is important, and that you’d much rather see them frequently if you knew he was on the same page about start and end times.

    • Midwest Mama

      Ugh that’s a lot of time, but I understand and struggle with this as well with both sets of grandparents living in our town. I try to avoid visits at our house because of the overstaying issue. Meeting at a restaurant for lunch/brunch on the weekends works well, although taking young kids to a restaurant is not always easy or fun. Or I try to invite them along if we’re doing something like pumpkin patch, zoo, park, etc. Otherwise, I think seeing them every weekend is overkill, because if you’re like me, weekends are for laundry, cleaning, errands, and spending time with your own kids.

    • nutella

      I think the babysitting while you are gone is a good idea. Can you signal by yawning and saying “We are beat and have to get to bed!” so they get the clue after you get home? Maybe you can schedule playdates for the kids after you take them to lunch out of the house with grandparents, so that they don’t tag along? Alternatively, why not drop the kids off at grandparents’ house while you run errands? Grandparent time is really special for kids and I would advise you work on this so that you can enjoy the luxury of having willing and able free babysitters! Then maybe once a month you have them over for a visit not just with the kids but with you and your husband too.

      • In-law Issues

        We don’t typically drop them off, because even though they are in-town, it is an hour drive roundtrip to go over there. Right now we are still in the baby and toddler phase (8 months and 2 years), so I am hesitant to send them away because it is going by so fast and there is so much STUFF! We are going on our first adult vacation since kids in two weeks (!!!!) and the grandparents will be splitting the overnight duties at our house. I want my kids to spend time with their family, but I need to work on these boundary issues. I believe the main problem is that my in-laws are still working and want to spend their weekends with their kids and forget that we want the same things too.

        • mascot

          I’ll tell you that the best gift my in-town parents (who also lived 30mins away) was their willingness to do an overnight visit at their house once a month. They got stuff from consignment sales/grandparent friends and were pretty well stocked with kid stuff. We started this when my child was very young so I got comfortable early on with the idea of someone else watching him overnight. That part gets easier once you’ve done it a few times.

    • MargaretO

      Can your husband take them over to his parents house alone sometimes? And then you can get a couple of hours of alone time.

      • In-law Issues

        I tried that once. I had my husband take my toddler while I was pregnant with my youngest to his parents while I went shopping with my mom. I was done at 1pm, but my husband didn’t get back until 6pm with my son because he had to nap and then they went out to eat afterwards and then had a 30 minute drive home. We got into a huge fight about this because I assumed they both would have been back in the early afternoon.

        I now only schedule weekend solo activities away from the kids during naptime or after bedtime.

        • MargaretO

          I agree with the posters above – it definitely sounds like this is a boundary issue that you have to discuss with your husband. He needs to set boundaries with his parents, but it also sounds like you need to make your expectations about the time you spend with them more clear to him.

        • Anonymous

          Our son. Your husband didn’t get back with our son, not your son. It’s weird to me that you didn’t a) discuss in advance instead of assuming and b) weren’t delighted to have an afternoon of peaceful mommy nap time.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, I think the repeated phrasing of “my todder,” “my son,” is very weird. These kids are your husband’s right? Not his step-kids?

          • anon-oh-no

            oh my gosh. this is not weird at all. of course its their son and not just her son, but this is how people talk. When I’m at work or out with friends or somewhere not around my husband, I say “my son” because its weird to say “our son” when he is not there. But of course this results sometimes in my saying “my son” when my husband is there, because I’m so used to saying “my son.”

          • Anonymous

            There is a big difference between saying to a friend or colleague “my daughter and I are going to the zoo” and saying “my son” when referring to a dispute between you and your husband/husband’s family about who gets time with the kids. Of course people sometimes say “my” son/daughter in conversation but I find it very weird that she would use that term over and over again in a post complaining about her husband spending time with the kids without her. The OP v. husband dynamic is already there, the language just reinforces it.

        • SD

          OP, I think you’re going to get some feedback you didn’t necessarily bargain for when you posted here. I’ve heard stories of mothers who get very possessive of their child, to the extent that they shut the father out of childcare and treat him with a lack of trust. Why did you assume his plans (it’s his kid, too!), which quite reasonably sound like they would take half a day, would be squished down to align with your brief shopping trip? And you make it sound like now he’s not “allowed” to do that again. Do you honestly feel entitled to like… forbid him from spending a day (alone or with his parents) with his own kid? Couldn’t you two have just texted throughout the day to keep each other updated regarding timeline?

          Your husband and his parents have as much a right to the kid’s time as you and your parents. But your husband should have your back and make sure his parents don’t overstay their welcome. If they left let’s say an hour after babysitting every single time, would you honestly be satisfied with that result, or are you looking for reasons to be frustrated with them because you don’t like them and/or you’re being kind of possessive with your kid?

          • SD

            Actually, reread your original post and I can see it from your POV too. Weekday vs weekend seems like a key distinction here… as well as “we just want to see the kid, then we’ll get out of your hair” vs “togetherness family time.” I do think your husband should be the one to draw boundaries with his parents, but you should probably frame it as “this is how they can get more time with our kid without stressing me out. Can you help me make that happen?”

    • Anonymous

      You don’t have to stay up for SNL. They are family. You can tell them to enjoy the show with hubs and you are going to bed.

      • Anonymous

        +1

        OP it seems to me like you feel obligated to have everyone together (either both you and your husband or both of you and your kids depending on time of day) whenever you spend time with your in laws? I’m not sure why this is? If you’re tired and it’s late, just say you’re going to bed. I don’t think it’s rude to go to bed. They’ll either leave or stay up with him longer, either of which seems completely fine to me. I’m not sure why you have to be there just because they are.

        • Meg Murry

          Yes, I was coming to say the same thing. My parents and in-laws both live nearby, and sometimes we see them a *lot*, sometimes we only see them every 1-2 weeks, it all depends what’s going on. But because we see them so very often, the only way I can stay sane is that I no longer treat them with “best company manners”. They want to come over and sit on my couch for 3-4 hours while talking to my husband and watching the kids play? Ok, fine. I’ll sit for 30 minutes or so and make small talk, offer everyone drinks etc get a game started with the kiddo and grandma, but I’m not going to sit in the living room for 4 hours. After a little while I’m going to excuse myself and go on about my life in the next room (loading the dishwasher, doing laundry, running to the grocery store if we’re out of milk, etc). I’m not super rude about it (not trying to vacuum under their feet or anything), but if they pop by in the middle of the afternoon when I had other plans in order to get ready for the rest of the week I’m not able to just drop those things and sit with them.

          So in the SNL example – just say “wow, it’s been a long week, I’ve got to go get ready for bed. Goodnight Bob, Sue.” Hopefully they take the hint and you can come back out to watch SNL with your husband after they are gone. Or if they don’t – well you can go read in bed by yourself, etc.

          The main things I’ve found are:
          -Schedule specific time with them, preferably something standing every week or two, to discourage pop-ins. Could you do a weeknight dinner instead?
          -Schedule time with your husband. Say “I’d really like just the 4 of us to do X on Saturday.” It sounds like your default to no specific weekend plans is family time for the 4 of you, whereas your husband’s default to no specific plans is to say “sure, we have nothing planned, we can hang out with the grandparents”.
          -To avoid 4 hour visits, invite them to come over after an event, and schedule something else you have to do for later. Even if it’s “sure, come on over around 1:00 after lunch, but I’ll have to go run errands around 3:00”.
          -Develop a code phrase with your husband for “wrap this up and get these people out of my living room!”

          But yes, the positive of local family (free childcare! family meals! no traveling for holidays!) are also balanced with the negatives in that you wind up spending a *lot* of your precious free time with them.

      • In-law issues

        The SNL example was just the first thing that popped into my head while typing. Last weekend we had early family pictures, then we all had breakfast (I arranged and planned) and headed to the park for the kids to play. After that they wanted to drive OUR toddler home since he loves their blue car then they stayed another two hours that I was not expecting when I was hoping to relax when our infant took his nap. This would not have been annoying on its own, except they babysat the afternoon and night before. I would have brought this general issue up with my husband after they left, but my FIL had helped him get rid of a dead squirrel in our yard and I did not want to seem ungrateful for the help. When my parents come by they do not linger or intrude on our weekend family time. I can hardly get my dad to stay long enough after we get home when they babysit to let my mom give me a rundown on how the kids did (he wants to go to bed). I would love a happy medium for all grandparents.

        I try my best to manage all grandparent time fairly. I am planning to talk to my husband about this when we have a few moments of downtime.

        • In-law issues

          Let me clarify, we did not know about the dead squirrel in our yard when they arrived for the visit. I know better than to complain about visits when we get help from them with the house.

          I would do more weekday visits, but with traffic and early bedtimes it makes it hard and exhausting for all parties.

          Thanks all for the suggestions!

        • Anonymous

          Say no. “No, toddler is coming with us, bye!” You know they are going to stay over.

          • In-law issues

            I will be talking about that with my husband the next time we meet them anywhere. I (wrongly) assumed it would just be a dropoff since my house was close and they had just seen him for hours for the night before.

            If they weren’t so nice this would be a lot easier to discuss with my husband.

    • Anonymous

      I see my kid mornings only (DH has evenings and she’s in bed before I get home) and live for the weekends when I get more relaxed time with her. I’d rage if someone was trying to intrude that much on my only time with my kid. Taking my kid away more for weekend overnights would not be a solution for me. I’d take the kids to the park just before grandparents arrived, but I’m petty.

        • Anonymous

          Why is it sad? When you work long hours and can only see your kid on weekends, I think not wanting grandparent time EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND is totes reasonable (but I also think you have to treat parents and in-laws equitably, so if you’re cool with your parents coming over every weekend you need to do the same for in-laws).

        • Anonymous

          No, my parents and grandparents take our kid during the week as much as they can to max our kids one-on-one time with family. Doubling up on weekends, every weekend, is selfish and not helpful but please enlighten us if there’s another view one can have.

        • Anonnymommy

          Judge much? When both parents work, it is totally reasonable for one to be morning parent and one to be evening parent.

        • AKB

          I was talking about the part at the end about being petty and leaving before they came over. It’s strikes me as kind of mean and sad for the kid who probably wants to see their grandparent.

    • Meredith Grey

      Reading this is like reading what I’m sure my future self could write word.for.word (like down to the SNL detail);I don’t have kids yet but watch this exact scenario over and over again with my in-laws/BIL & SIL… It’s painful bc I totally think every weekend is too much in general if that’s not your jam and even more so when your own time with your kids is limited.

      I don’t think this is a logistical issue as much as it is a boundary-setting. I disagree that the fix is to plan things differently/schedule your kids to have something to get to/meet else where. Like you said, your weekend time is rare, precious time. Overbooking yourself so you have excuses to limit grandparent time might be effective moment to moment, but it’s exhausting in so many ways.

      Instead, it sounds like it would be beneficial for you to talk to DH about the two of you communicating better, with each other and others, about your priorities/setting boundaries. Approaching it with DH from a place of wanting to be on the same page in general with your weekend time might be less touchy than going straight into how his parents are. If you two don’t see eye to eye on how you want to spend your precious weekend time, that’s where to start. Come up with a game plan together that feels good for the two of you, outside of the demands of others- you can do this week to week so if feel less like “this is the way we are going to do things now on.” Then rely on each other to stick to that plan by agreeing and arrange time with others based on that plan and practice implementing it clearly and effectively. i.e. “Mom/Dad, thanks for agreeing to watch the kids. We’re going to come home 30 mins earlier so you two can get home before SNL starts.”

      Also highly recommend leaning on friends that have both sets of in-laws local. I’ve really found that unless someone else is living it, they cannot relate and these issues can be isolating.

    • Suburban

      Maybe too late for the op to read but I had a similar issue. I solved it by (counterintuitivly) inviting them for dinner once a week, on Friday. I was also totally honest with my mil as to what was helpful to me. Now she picks the kid up early from daycare, gets him ready for bed, etc while I hit the gym every Friday. I’ll come home with wine and food and we’ll get to visit/eat dinner after the kid goes to bed. It’s much easier to take the planned time together than the constant just hanging at my house. Plus, she’s thankful that we’ve made time for her after seeing the chaos that is our lives. And she’s not looking for us all weekend. Anyway, hope this helps.

  19. Anonymous

    Random but I need to share. I’m getting divorced and decided I wanted to learn to drive a manual. My soon to be ex had a manual SUV when we met, and he tried “teaching” me a few times (read: had no patience and yelled at me before deciding I “couldn’t” do it), and that was that.

    A supportive friend recently mentioned that he thinks anyone can drive manual, and he’s giving me lessons on his car. He’s been very patient, hasn’t yelled…you know…being an actual caring, respectful friend, and I’m getting it down. He actually swapped cars with me today, and I drove his manual to work and only stalled twice at red lights. People honked at me, but I stayed calm and got back into gear.

    This is a big deal for me! I’ve heard my ex’s voice in my head, but I ignore it and remember “I can do this if I stay calm. I know how to do this”. So basically, the car is a metaphor for life, too. YAY!

    • Lyssa

      Good for you! I love driving a manual, and have for over 15 years. FWIW, my dad has tried to teach multiple family members, who all failed miserably with him, but learned and became quite competent from other people. It’s a great skill to have.

      • Anonymous

        OP here: my sister is like you. She’s driven a manual for about 15 years since she got her first car. We live in different cities, and I’ve always been too intimidated to ask her to give me a lesson when she visits. Maybe I’ll surprise her by taking her car for a spin next time we are together!

    • KT

      Driving manual is such a great skill! And if you get used to it, it really cuts down on the price of car. Manual versions are thousands less than automatic.

      Also, no one will steal your car, since most don’t know how to handle it.

    • bridget

      Woot-woot! Yay!

      It’s a great skill to have and is like riding a bike: once you really learn, you can always do it.

      My first boyfriend – a world-class POS – was once screaming at me when we were driving somewhere. I pulled over into a parking lot, got out, and told him to drive. He got into the driver’s seat and, despite having a d-ck, stalled out three times in the parking lot. Once he had to admit that he couldn’t drive my car, he (sullenly) got out of the driver’s seat, and let me drive home in peace. He might have been sulking, but the ego took a beating because he couldn’t drive a manual.

      It’s sort of the reverse situation of your story, but yeah, jerk men are jerks about cars.

      • Sloan Sabbith

        I once told a guy friend of mine- who doesn’t drive, for the record- that he could choose between stopping drunkenly screaming at me about my driving and walking home (I was going out of my way to give him a ride home). I was dead f-ing serious and we were miles from his house. He didn’t speak to me for the rest of the ride, which was better than yelling.

    • TorontoNewbie

      Congrats! I love driving a standard and it’s so useful if you’re ever in Europe or a lot of other places with a rental car.

    • Anonymous

      Congrats!! I learned when I was a teenager from my dad — my mom’s attempts to teach me ended in tears. It really is something anyone can learn! You just have to have a patient teacher. Your ex sounds like a jerk. Good riddance!

      • Anonymous

        Also also, I’ve been driving one now for 15 years, and I still stall it occasionally if I’m not paying attention. Also every clutch is different, and sometimes if I’m driving a manual that’s not my car I don’t shift smoothly for the first little while as I get used to the feel of the different clutch. So don’t be embarrassed about stalling it! You’re a rockstar for learning despite your negative experience with your ex.

    • Wildkitten

      Love this! My mom’s rule was that you wreck a transmission for each kid you teach to drive stick, so it might be nice to offer to pay for some transmission maintenance in exchange for the lessons. (I assume adults who already know how to drive are less destructive than trying to get a 16 year old to drive a manual).

    • CMT

      Nice! Definitely anybody can do it, but it does take a patient teacher who is not a jerk. My parents had my uncle teach me, since they knew he’d be much less tense during lessons than they would.

  20. Anonymous

    My boss wants to proofread everything I do: reports, cover letters, you name it. Its been like this for day one. I’ve been here a year and a half.

    I have access to my predecessor’s files, and she made flagrant typos in every document. I wonder if she is dyslexic. These materials were all sent out with mistakes to the point of even getting people’s names wrong.

    I don’t understand my boss. It doesn’t seem that she EVER read over my predecessor’s documents. They didn’t get better as time went on, so I don’t think my boss realized and started checking everything.

    My documents typically have no typos, but it causes a hold up on my end because I have to factor in her review time. She is also a procrastinator, so I find myself sending multiple emails and going to ask her in person if she’s had a chance to review X, Y, or Z.

    Suggestions on how to manage up? I’m trying not to take it personally, but c’mon…I’d think that after a year and a half she’d trust me to produce quality documents and give me the liberty to send them out without her review, ESPECIALLY given my predecessor made SO.MANY.TYPOS.

    • Jitterbug

      It’s possible your boss realized the typos after or shortly before your predecessor left, and that’s why they’re checking now. Which would make sense for the first 6 months, but if you’ve really been turning out work with zero errors for a long time, it would make sense to raise this issue.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe that’s *why* she wants to proofread everything you do – precisely because she didn’t proofread your predecessor’s work and it might’ve bit her in the butt.

      Also, I manage up at lot in my practice with partners who have a hard time organizationally. And I do what you do, send follow up emails, stop by in person, leave voicemails.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think that’s the case. My predecessor was there for 5 years, and my boss seemingly never proofread anything she did. I’ve been a supervisor, and if I had looked at any of the old reports, I would have gone crazy over the typos. I really do think my predecessor is dyslexic based on the severity of the typos.

        FWIW, I’m at an NGO in a director level position. My boss is the CEO. I’ve never been in a director level position where the CEO/Executive Director proofread everything I wrote.

        • Coach Laura

          If it were me, at your level, I’d have a frank conversation with the CEO when you’re discussing performance issues. Ask CEO what you would need to do/achieve before she would be willing to let you send out documents without the CEO’s review. Maybe the CEO will explain her reservations, maybe not. Maybe you’ll get authority to send out certain docs, not on others. It may be that you can set a target date to talk about it later. At least it will give you the opportunity to talk about the timing issue if you frame it along organizational lines, timely work output and deadlines and how you’d like to utilize her time effectively.

    • rosie

      Is there someone else who could proofread? An assistant, paralegal, etc.? If so, I might start gently transitioning to “Here’s document X, which I need to send out by Y time. If you are swamped, let me know and I can have [paralegal’s name] go over the doc as another set of eyes to catch any issues before it goes out.” If she’s only reviewing for typos, not substance, I think that offering her a logical out could be one tactic.

  21. Bonnie

    This dress is horrible. The high neck, short sleeves and lack of shape make the model look bigger than she is.

  22. LondonLeisureYear

    Can we talk about how amazing Michelle Obama looked at last night’s State Dinner? Wow!

    • MargaretO

      +1 she just looked crazy s3xy, and I loved it. How does she get better looking every year??

      • Baconpancakes

        Michelle is secretly a Level 18 sorceress. She’s reaching the height of her powers, and I fully expect her to be running the country and glowing like a goddess by 2040.

    • Anonymous

      I am not a fan of MO’s sartorial MO (see what I did there?) and in general not a fan, but she really nailed it last night.

  23. Post-partum trial

    Is there anyway I could do a 4 week trial at 7 weeks post-partum? If the baby is late, then that would cut into the 7 week timeline. Assume that you would be second chair, that this is the biggest trial of your career, that you have been preparing for it for over 2 years (prepared every witness, reviewed every document, conducted all research), and that you would have to do little to no prep in the 7 weeks leading up to trial.

    • Anonymous

      Please consider: extreme sleep deprivation (unless you get a night nurse for the week before you return to work and the duration of your trial), your new body size (for the clothes you will wear during your trial), and whether you will need breaks to pump br3astmilk for your baby (totally ok if you do formula, just something to consider).

      • toddler mom in biglaw

        Night nurse was the best money I ever spent, and it was a LOT of money. If you can afford it, it’s worth it.

        Extreme sleep deprivation doesn’t really even begin to cover it. I’d gone to trial before, did all nighters, been ok, not good, but ok. An infant is an entirely different experience. Entirely. I was so tired that I was hallucinating a bit.

        Also note that if you choose to nurse, which I did but you do you, you can’t drink that much coffee. Not the kind of coffee you’d normally drink after all-night trial prep. And if the only reason you’re choosing not to nurse is because of this trial (as opposed to you don’t want to, which is a totally legit reason)… this trial is fleeting and I encourage you to reconsider.

        And in the first two months, if you choose to nurse, you’re establishing supply so you cannot be skipping pumping or nursing sessions both because it will mess up your supply and also because it could make you engorged, which huuuuuuuuuuuuurts, and also possibly cause mastitis.

        Plus you’ll almost certainly still be bleeding 7 weeks post-partum. Surprise. As in, you still can’t use tampons so you’re wearing super duper plus overnight pads which you may have to change several times a day.

        And using a peri bottle when you use the restroom, depending on how your delivery went.

        (It is so f&#&$@ up that this country does not have maternity leave, and 6 weeks leave is considered “standard”. WTF AMERICA.)

        • Anonymous

          Still bleeding and a peri bottle at 7 weeks? Yikes. You must have had a terrible experience. I don’t think that’s normal at all. I mean, they clear you to, as said on this site, garden at 6 weeks generally. I agree with the others below – physically, you could do it, as in you could be in a suit (honestly, I was back to my normal size around 6 weeks), in a courtroom, from 9-5 each day, but mentally, you’re probably doing your client a disservice.

          • Anonymous

            Back to normal size isn’t common at 6 weeks. Post- section the wound is still not properly healed. Still bleeding and peri-bottle at 7 weeks is rough but not a one- off experience. I’ve had three kids and the post- partum period was different each time.

    • Anonymous

      Wait, no, “assuming you would have to do little to no prep” is absolutely bonkers. That is not reality.

      I’d call the court, tell them that I’ll be on maternity leave, and ask for an adjournment of two months, with or without consent from opposing counsel, although I’d try to get it.

      • Anonymous

        +1 Even the best prepared attorney in the world can’t get away with “little to no prep” in the weeks leading up to a trial.

      • Anonymous

        I would assume that the OP is a non-partner in Big Law and the case will be taken away from her if she doesn’t do it at that time. I agree, if she’s a solo/small firm attorney who actually has control of her own cases, asking for a continuance is definitely the best solution.

        • toddler mom in biglaw

          I assume that too, and that totally sucks if the case gets taken away. But worse would be accepting the responsibility and then doing anything less than a stellar job at the trial. The firm will vaguely remember that you had to back out of a trial because of a baby, cue eye rolling of sexist partners, but the firm will always, always remember how an associate blew a trial.

      • Post-partum trial

        Please consider that I know my own situation. There will be trial prep to be done in the 7 weeks before trial, but it won’t need to be done by me.

        • Anonymous

          Please consider you just asked for advice. If you aren’t doing the prep you shouldn’t be second chairing. No, this is a terrible plan, don’t do it.

          • Post-partum trial

            I’ve done 100s of hours of prep over the course of 2 years, which is why I’d be second chair. I just won’t be doing the prep in the 7 weeks beforehand.

          • Blonde Lawyer

            I think it depends what second chairing means at your firm. If it is doing the research, memos, arguing law, maintaining exhibits, taking notes, talking strategy with the 1st chair, letting 1st chair know if he/she missed anything then you are probably fine. If second chair means you are doing either the opening or closing and handling half the witnesses, than no, this is probably crazy.

          • Post-partum trial

            I won’t be doing openings/closings. I’ve interviewed witnesses, obtained Will Says, and will be managing witnesses during trial, but the coordinating of witnesses in the lead-up to trial will be handled by a clerk.

    • Anonymous

      You can’t know if advance. You could have an easy birth and an easy baby and feel great at 6 weeks. You could have a difficult birth including c-section, medical complications and a baby that requires NICU time or bad sleeper/eater and not be ready to leave the house at 7 weeks let alone take on a trial. If your baby is a week late and you have a section, you may not even be medically cleared when the trial starts. Until it’s happening, there’s no way to know where along that spectrum you may end up.

      Can you have the option to be available for ‘consultations’ when the trial begins? If it doesn’t mess with your STD, it might allow you to have some involvement (e.g. via email or listening in on conference calls while nursing) that you could ramp up if you feel great and are motivated.

      And, in the end, there will be other cases but your baby will only be a newborn once. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself in the post-partum period.

    • Anonymous

      I have one kid who is 6 months.

      Month-long trial from 7 weeks postpartum to 11 weeks postpartum? You would need to give the baby to inlaws or someone to take care of during that time. I don’t think you can’t do both of these things w/doing a TERRIBLE job at both. I truly think you could have inlaws or someone take over baby care from 7 – 11 weeks postpartum and baby would be fine, but that’s the only way I see it working. If DH is going to take over for you, you probably need to sleep elsewhere M-F, like on a friends sofa.

      Honestly, the more you can get done getting baby to STTN and on a schedule in the first 2 or maybe 3 months, then you can get back to work full steam around 3 or 4 months, but if you don’t do a good job, or baby has health or other issues, then you’ll still be sleep deprived at 6+ months. I wouldn’t set myself up to not be ready to go back at 3 or 4 months by doing this.

      • Anonymous

        Oh, and if you do this, I would do either formula or pumping/bottles from no later than week 2 or 3 of baby’s life, which are totally fine options, and I think necessary if you’re really going to do this. If you’re feeding at the breast at 4 weeks and plan to go to trial at week 7, you need some serious help to get re-oriented (like hire a doula or consult with a lactation consultant or something, but don’t fail to prepare on that front either).

        • Anonymous

          Just adding to my comments after reading others, and for context, I’ll add that I’m a biglaw transactional Sr Adsociate and mom.

          I think you should think about whether you’re doing this for your job or got you. To do this well, I think you should plan on dropping $5-10K on night nurses, doulas, etc (as others have siggested) unless your partner can be 100% on leave before and during your trial.

          Thinking about it in terms of money might help. Would I spent that much $ just to impress my partner or bc I kinda want the trial experience? No. BUT, if I thought the experience was invaluable to my job prospects and long term ability to provide for my family, maybe it’d be worth $5-10K (although this may be low estimate depending on where you live – but it’s easy to get estimates from these companies – call).

    • Wow

      Could you? Yes, I guess. SHOULD you? I say no way. Your body is still recovering, you are sleep deprived, you are nursing, you have brain fog. And of course I’m hoping this doesn’t happen, but baby could be in NICU, you could have PPD, etc.

      I’m skeptical of the “little to no prep” statement. Even if you know this record like the back of your hand ,you’re still going to want to review thoroughly, take notes, make sure you are on top of things as the trial date approaches.

      I would more worried about saying yes to this crucial professional milestone and then messing up.

      I don’t know if this is possible, but could you wait to make a decision until after baby comes and then see how you feel?

      Sorry to be so negative, just based on my experiences preparing for trial.

      • JayJay

        This was going to be my exact response. Physically, could you? Sure. Should you? Absolutely not. Have you ever prepped for a 4-week trial before as second chair? You would be doing your client a disservice, honestly.

    • nutella

      How far along are you now? It very well may get pushed back without you even asking on behalf of your delivery.

      • Post-partum trial

        I’m in my second trimester. The trial was scheduled to go ahead in 2 weeks, but may be pushed back to a fixed date 7 weeks after my due date, which is why I’m now in the position of considering whether that’s something I could handle.

        • Anonymous

          I 100% get that you want to do this but basically everyone here (a site very pro working mom) has said it’s a bad idea even if technically physically possible (which is itself not guaranteed). I’d give that some serious thought before agreeing to do it.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          I think you and your first chair should speak up on your behalf if it is already being rescheduled. If it is getting rescheduled, it shouldn’t matter if the new date is 7 weeks or 10 weeks away. Go for a future date that you can work with.

          • Anonymous

            Completely agree. First chair should be going to bat for you. Based on my own two recoveries, you’ll most likely be ready physically (assuming you hire a night nurse and get sleep), but it’s almost impossible for me to imagine being emotionally ready to basically not see my kid from week 7-11 because I was working around the clock. They change sooooo much in those weeks and all I wanted to do was sniff their little fuzzy heads. I could have handled a 9-5 office day, but not a trial.

          • Anonymous

            This is a really good point on the difference between a 9-5 office day and a trial. Difference between a 7 week old and a 12 week old is huge – push it out past 12 weeks if you can and budget to go back to work a week beforehand so you can get caught up + adjust to being a working mom. Ideally DH would take a week of leave during your first week of trial as well.

        • Coach Laura

          Post-partum trial: Are they willing to change the date for you or are you afraid it will be taken away if you don’t get a date change?

          Since you don’t know what your baby will be like, how recovery or your health will be, I’d say that you should only do it if:
          1) have a doctor agreeable to induce at your DDate; 2) nurse just for 2-3 weeks then wean or not nurse at all;and 3) get a night nurse and have a big enough house where you can be assured of a full night’s sleep or at least as much as a trial will allow.

          This may mean staying at a hotel to minimize commuting, not seeing your baby very much and outsourcing all parenting duties. Not that that’s bad – your baby won’t remember and as long as you have competent care for baby no harm done. You can hire a night nurse, bring in a family member or if you have an excellent partner s/he could do it all for you but you’ll have to have strong boundaries and the partner should not be working AT ALL during the trial. Set up meal delivery services, housekeeper, daytime nanny, laundry service etc. all ahead of time. Good luck.

          • Anonymous

            This is a good list and it addresses the reality that doing the trial will make nursing way harder or impossible. One of the biggest advantages of BF for working women is that the antibodies mean babies (generally) get sick less often or less severely when they do get sick so you’ll lose out on that benefit in the first year and may have to take more PTO on days when baby is sick.

          • Post-partum trial

            If I can’t do it, it’ll be assigned to someone else, which is hard for me. Based on constrained court resources, it’s either going to be rescheduled for 7 weeks post-partum or 8 months post-partum which, for this case, is a significant delay that I doubt the opposing party or court would approve.

    • Bonnie

      No. Even if you have been working on the case for years, there is always a ton of last minute prep. Something always goes wrong at the last second and there is always a recalculation of how to present the case. Even without the needs of recovery and a newborn, I don’t think it’s possible to step away from a case for an extended period and expect to step back in shortly before trial.

    • full of ideas

      Little to no prep heading the 7 weeks before trial – hahahahahaha. Wait, you are joking right?

    • ANon

      Assuming your recovery goes perfectly, of course you can. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. I recommend staying at a hotel during your trial and possibly only coming home on the weekends. I’d also recommend moving into the hotel a week early so that you can begin mentally preparing for trial. Having read all the depo transcripts and whatnot throughout litigation is not the same–nor is enough– as actually preparing for trial. When I say “preparing for trial,” I’m not talking about making binders or photocopying color photos, I’m talking about mentally preparing for trial and the psychological warfare that goes along with it.

      • ANon

        Oh, and in case it wasn’t clear from my post: someone else will have to be entirely responsible for your kid while you’re in trial, which is why I say you need to stay at a hotel. Otherwise, you’ll be guilted into helping with the baby

  24. SweatersForAll

    Any suggestions for midi length sweater dresses? I’d really like something that comes below my knees and reasonably fitted so that I’m not drowning in sweater. I don’t care if it is work appropriate or not.

  25. Anon renter issue

    So…we just moved out of my apartment and into our first house together. SO was not living there until the very end of the lease (two months), nor was our incredibly tame, non-shedding golden doodle. I never put SO on the lease and never paid a “pet deposit.” Our apartment management company did not know we had a dog.

    Flash forward one month after we moved out when we received the “final bill.” I was expecting this to be our final water bill, but instead there was a charge for “prorated carpet replacement due to pet related damage.” The carpet was not damaged by our pet, but was worn down in some spots due to normal wear and tear of shitty carpeting. The line item is appx $460. Again, they didn’t know we had a pet. Additionally, I have documentation of an email where I asked them if a final walk-thru would occur to ensure there were no additional charges to us, and they replied it was not common practice and was not necessary.

    How do I approach the apartment complex management to ensure I don’t have to pay this fee?

    • Veronica Mars

      Pet related damage is usually urine-related, so if you know that the carpet is spotless I’d send a note back saying there must’ve been a mix up with another unit and there was no damage to the carpet (include a picture if you took them before you moved out). And see where they go from there.

      • Anon renter issue

        @Veronica Mars… I’m tempted to try this 1st. Would you recommend contacting them via email or phone? (I don’t live closeby anymore…)

      • Anonymous

        +1. Do it in writing. Also, check your state LL/T laws, as many states have deadline for the LL to send you a list of itemized charges. 1 month may be within the deadline, but in my state it’s 14 days. If they exceed the deadline, you legally have to pay nothing.

    • rosie

      It sounds like they do know you had the dog there are are annoyed about it. So whatever you do, I would not lie about it (I think Veronica Mars’s suggestion that doesn’t address the dog is good). Look at your lease & tenant rights materials for your jurisdiction–there might be guidance as to what is ordinary wear & tear that you can use.

    • Anonymous

      Clearly they could tell you had a pet. I don’t see how you wouldn’t have to pay this. You tried to get away with violating the lease

    • Anonymous

      I would assume they figured out you had a pet and are just charging you this as effectively a pet fee. I don’t thinkt here’s anything you can do about it, and I certainly wouldn’t lie and claim you didn’t have a pet.

    • Anonymous

      If you had actually paid the pet deposit (which, it doesn’t matter if it was “only 2 months”, you were certainly supposed to do), how much would the deposit have been? If it would have been more than $460, I’d pay for the carpet. If it would be less, you could try offering to pay that amount. But I don’t think you get out of this by paying nothing.

  26. KateMiddletown

    Any BR pieces you’ve loved recently? I have some BR Bucks I have to use before the end of November and I’m not loving anything online right now.

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