ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Cashmere Cable-Knit Cardigan

A woman wearing an ivory sweater and white pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A four-figure sweater isn’t in my budget at the moment, but if it were, this ivory cardigan from TSE Cashmere would be at the top of my list. In my Nancy Meyers-inspired fantasy life, I would pair this twisty cable knit with a satin midi skirt and flat sandals. In my real life, where I’m a lawyer and not an owner of a luxury cupcake bakery, I would wear it with some wide-leg trousers for the office or dark denim for the weekend.

The sweater is $1,350 at Neiman Marcus and comes in sizes XS-XL.

Sales of note for 12.3.24 (lots of Cyber Monday deals extended, usually until 12/3 at midnight)

353 Comments

  1. Good morning ladies! I’m planning a trip to Martha’s Vineyard this year and am looking for any tips and suggestions. I’d like to go off-season so I’m thinking sometime after labor day but if there’s a better time, I’m all ears. Also, I don’t know the best place to fly into and whether we should spend all of our time on MV or spend a night or two at MV and then go someplace else. The hubs and I have never traveled to his area so we have no idea how to best spend our time. I’m thinking about 4-5 days and we prefer hotels and small inns vs. air bnb or vbro. Thank you!!

    1. Such a great idea! After Labor Day is usually lovely, a bit quieter but still open, good water temp. If you’ve always wanted to go to Martha’s Vineyard I’d stay on the island the whole time. Take a day trip to Nantucket one day, some sort of boat based siteseeing one day, three days of just chilling on the island. Coming from Houston I’d fly to Boston and take cape air from Boston to Martha’s Vineyard. If you plan your accommodation well and are comfortable biking you don’t need a car on the island and I think you’ll have a better experience without. Book now honestly. Good places fill up.

      1. +1 to all of this. September is a great time to visit MV and Nantucket. I would stay in Edgartown for a first visit, and then drive to the other side of the island to explore. I do not care for Vineyard Haven FWIW.

    2. Ahhh, nothing better than the shoulder season in the Cape and islands. Right after Labor Day should still have plenty open. Columbus Day and/or October 1 is when the real seasonal stuff shuts down for the winter. So closer to Labor Day the better, but in September should offer you plenty of options. Plus, we’re definitely known for some hot days in September up here, so you might be pleasantly surprised to get a beach day (maybe with a sweatshirt) while you’re there, too.

      Stay in MV. Plenty to do in 4-5 days, including some relaxation. I think if you tried to go elsewhere you’d burn too much time traveling, which would defeat the purpose of the trip. Fly in to the MV airport directly for maximum convenience. Cape Air flies year round. JetBlue and a few others (I think) are seasonal, but that may run through October.

      Edgartown is lovely and my personal favorite as far as towns to stay in, but it’s so easy to get around you’re really ok staying anywhere. But, go for Edgartown if you can swing it. Oak Bluffs and Vineyard Haven are the more “year round “communities – a little more commercial in Vineyard Haven for sure. Oak Bluffs has lots of restaurants, the “Gingerbread House” campground and a lot more. Lots of little streets and shops to wander, too. Lookout Bar by the ferry terminal is a personal favorite for burning some time over cocktails with a view.

      You can rent a car to get around. The island is surprisingly large (compared to Nantucket, anyway). Renting bikes is also a great option as there are great, safe, extensive bike trails throughout. The MV transportation bus system is also really, really good. Don’t be shy about trying to figure that out and use it. Lots of cabs and uber, too, even in September.

      Happy to dish plenty of restaurant and scenic-type recs once you’re booked. Start here. Good luck! I’m from just north of the Cape, have been countless times, and MV (Edgartown) is still my go-to retreat for some relaxation.

      1. +1 to this! Edgartown is lovely, and September is a PERFECT time to visit the Vineyard. Great weather, but not crowded. Fly directly there, otherwise you’ll need to rent a car and spend a ton of time on ferries (and make ferry reservations way in advance.)

        Depending on where you’re coming from, Providence, RI is a good airport to fly from– it’s maybe 20 min on Cape Air from PVD to MVY.

        1. Thank you so much! Any recs on places to stay? I’m looking at the Harbor View Hotel but looks pricey. I’m okay spending the money if it’s worth it. But obviously don’t want to spend the money if it’s not 100% worth it.

          1. This is going to make me sound………. I know how it sounds: I usually sleep on my sailboat on a mooring in Edgartown harbor. So, I’m not a good person to talk to about hotel recs. That said, I go for jogs by Harbor View all the time and it looks stunning. I’ve never heard a bad thing about it. That and The Vineyard Square Hotel are always ones that stand out and I’d look to stay onshore.

      2. Thank you so much! Any recs on places to stay? I’m looking at the Harbor View Hotel but looks pricey. I’m okay spending the money if it’s worth it. But obviously don’t want to spend the money if it’s not 100% worth it.

  2. Love this!!

    I’m having an upper endoscopy this morning and will be going under I think – but I think other commenters were talking about how general anesthesia is dangerous? Can one do an endoscopy with only local anesthesia? (sounds awful). Are there questions I should ask before I let them put me under? TiA…

    1. Don’t make something routine absolutely terrible because of some outlier stories.

    3. I think endoscopy uses the same anesthesia as colonoscopies, which is called “conscious sedation.” It’s not the same as general in that you are still breathing on your own.

      I don’t remember the particular as of that discussion and am not an MD or anesthesiologist, but I think the risks of conscious sedation are less and not the same as for general anesthesia.

      1. Correct. General anesthesia is not used because that would require you to be intubated. I’ve had an endoscopy and you just go to sleep for a bit, it’s no big deal.

      2. If it’s the same as a colonoscopy you’re not even necessarily “asleep.” I was talking to the doctor and watching the camera at times, though my memories are hazy.

        1. Oh for my endoscopy I felt as though I was totally, totally out (even though I was under conscious sedation). Since the endoscopy goes down your throat, I think most people need to feel like they’re totally out so they don’t gag.

      3. I was lightly awake during an endoscopy. They didn’t give me enough juice to knock me out all the way I guess. I remember the tube going in but I didn’t care. That’s how that kind of sedation works. Mine was after a colonoscopy and I was awake enough to make a joke about making sure they were using a different scope.

        The next time I had one, I wasn’t aware at all. I just woke up and it was done.

    4. I just had one last week- it was whatever the lighter version is? I don’t remember exactly but I know it wasn’t full on general anesthesia. Went super smooth, was out then awake and alert fairly quickly!

    5. You should be fine, an endoscopy is a very quick procedure and uses a light sedation (just enough to numb you for the procedure, but you’ll wake up quickly afterwards). I have at least one endoscopy per year and the last one I was awake 15 minutes after I last looked at the clock. You can always explain your hesitation to the anesthesiologist and ask for the most minimal option.

    6. I’m pretty sure they’re not going to use general anesthesia. At most I’d expect they’d use propofol (deep sedation), and you’ll be breathing on your own. It’s low risk. It’s totally fine to ask them about it though; they’ll let you know the plan!

      2. I got propofol as well for endoscopy. It was fine. Like a nap. I dont think you could be awake for an endoscopy because of gagging.

    7. Frankly I have never come across any GA horror stories. Please don’t make your medical decisions on the basis of this site. People with good GA experiences wouldn’t have contributed to that thread.

      1. There is research showing an association between general anesthesia and cognitive decline in older people. But that’s for general anesthesia, not sedation.

      2. There weren’t even any horror stories on that thread! People just said it’s overkill for a lot of dental stuff (which it is) and that anesthesia medications in general can have legitimate medical contraindications (also true).

        Anyone concerned about receiving GA for an endoscopy doesn’t know what GA is, but it’s okay to learn more!

        I also think it’s good for more people to be aware of things like the difference between a nurse anesthesiologist and a MD anesthesiologists or the close calls physicians are reporting from the way private equity is running some anesthesiology groups.

    8. Yes you totally can. I’ve had 3 endoscopies and have only done the throat numbing. You have to force yourself not to gag but it’s totally worth it IMO to be able to just walk out afterward!

      1. You can walk out after with the normal endoscopy sedation. All of these surgery centers are outpatient and yes, everyone walks right out.

        1. Still worth it for me. No grogginess, no recovery, no waiting, no support person needed to drive home. Also it was cool to watch it on the screen! To each their own.

          1. This sounds great and is how it was done last time I had one. I hope I can find a conscious sedation place where I live now since I’m overdue for my follow up.

        2. Is this different from an endoscopy + colonoscopy where you have to get someone to drive you back and accompany you for the next twelve hours?

          2. The 12 hour supervision was the reason given for why the driver couldn’t just be a cabbie. They need someone who will stay with the patient. It’s a huge hassle! But that was endoscopy and colonoscopy, not just endoscopy, so I’m guessing it’s different anesthesia meds.

          3. I had an endoscopy and colonoscopy and was never told this. I did need someone for a ride home.

    9. Anesthesia is NOT dangerous. I can’t believe we’re even having this discussion here.

      2. The original discussion was not even about anesthesia. That OP’s ex-husband wanted to block her from having her child’s wisdom teeth removed because their older child had become depressed after wisdom tooth removal and he was blaming it on the sedation. It really just sounded like high-conflict divorce manipulation to me.

        That said, we should be discussing the real risks of all medications and procedures, including general anesthesia. There is evidence in the literature that general anesthesia can cause cognitive decline.

    10. No idea why my comment didn’t make it through under my handle, but I’ve had 3 endoscopies and have only ever had the local throat numbing. The procedure is uncomfortable and you have to work to suppress your gag reflex, but I like being able to just walk out afterward and resume my day.

    11. fwiw i’m OP and out now – it took 20 minutes and i was in and out very quickly. i asked them to use lidocaine before propofol because the last time i had that it made me feel like my veins were on fire, and this was much better.

    12. I have a pre-cancerous condition that requires me to have this procedure every five years. It’s never been a problem for me—the general anesthesia—and I can’t imagine doing this with a local anesthesia. Once got a hefty bill for not choosing the proper medical site 😡 though. So make sure about the insurance stipulations, and do all you can to book this early am so there is less anxious buildup and you dont have to be hungry all day! No worries. 🙂

  3. This is basic question, but my skin is changing as I’m aging and I need new products. Is there a moisturizing/gentle face wash that also removes makeup? My newly dry skin no longer appreciates the cleansers for normal skin that did a good job at removing all of my makeup, and the moisturizing/gentle cleansers I’ve tried just kinda smear makeup around.

    If no such cleanser exists, this is a dumb question, but do you use makeup remover first and have that smear all over your face and then wash or do you wash first, use remover to get rid of what’s left, then wash again? (I have never in my life had anything take off my makeup in one swipe like those Neutrogena makeup wipes ads with Jennifer Garner.)

    1. Micellar water, specifically the bioderma brand is what you’re looking for. Use it on a cotton round to take off your makeup, then put on whatever moisturizer you use and like.

      1. I tried Bioderma after all the recs here but I’ve found it unfortunately doesnt do a good job taking off my (non-waterproof) mascara and eyeliner. It works for foundation and shadow, but I need something stronger to take off my mascara.

        1. For your wallet’s sake I’d suggest Banila clean it zero over the one linked above but agree that cleansing balms are great. I use them when I travel and they are great for pampering dry/irritated skin from air travel/dry air.

      2. I also like the Clinique Take the Day of balm too although the Colleen Rothschild is more moisturizing. I wish I didn’t love that balm but if you wait for a holiday they often have 20 or 25% off.

    3. I use liquid Purpose by Johnson & Johnson. Gentle. Removes makeup. If I wear a lot, I use Neutrogena liquid make up remover with a cotton pad on my eyes before washing.

    4. I use micellar water from Target (forget the brand) on a cotton round on my face first to take off my eye makeup and foundation. I usually end up using 3-4 rounds (one for each eye and 1-2 for my face). Then, I use CeraVe hydrating facial cleanser. I don’t feel like I get all of my makeup off if I only use one of those steps. I follow up with a hyaluronic acid serum and moisturizer.

    5. Maybe consider wearing less make up. I have found that less make up looks better and a full face of make up that a gentle cleanser can’t remove is probably too much and may be making you look older – just something to consider!

      1. No. The amount of makeup doesn’t matter so much as the type (components for long wearing lipstick or waterproof mascara are harder to remove, for example). That’s why a double cleans works well, since you’re breaking down the components first with something oil based like the balms or cold cream others mentioned followed by a regular cleanser.

      2. That’s pretty preachy unsolicited advice. You woke up today and decided to tell a stranger her makeup is making her look old.

        She asked for advice on cleansers. Lots of people gave her that advice, and did so kindly. I don’t know why you decided to be unkind but maybe rethink how you talk to others.

      1. +1 to double cleansing. I prefer an emuslfying oil to micellar water (which is too greasy for me). I use the Kose Softymo Speedy Cleansing Oil – cheap, works well, easy to buy on amazon. In the winter I pair it with the CosRX snail cleanser which is very gentle and moisturizing.

      2. +2 Double cleanse. I suppose sometimes I triple cleanse – I’ll use a makeup remove wipe (randomly I like the grocery store brand ones the best), then CereVe Makeup Removing Cleanser Balm (apply and then wash off with a washcloth), then CereVe Foaming facial cleanser (apply and wash off). I have miceller water that I used to use a lot, but I like the balm better; it is much more moisturizing and gentle.

        1. These are the exact products I use, and I have been getting excellent results!

          Double cleanse is where it’s at.

      3. Agree. I use an oil cleanser first (Maya Chia – the Great Cleanse). I’ve never realized until I started using it how easily an oil removes makeup. I have reusable/washable bamboo rounds that I used to wipe it off and it removes all the makeup. I also use an oil based eye makeup remover (Almay Eye Makeup Remover Pads) and they wipe off all my waterproof mascara easily. Then I wash with a gentle facial cleanser.

    8. IME, the gentle cleansers don’t do a great job removing makeup. In my 40s, I’ve switched to double cleansing. I use Clinique’s Take the Day Off balm to remove makeup, then follow up with a gentle cleanser. I’m very happy with how my skin looks and feels. The balm is very soothing and does not strip my skin.

    9. I use the first aid beauty face wash.. I generally just wash my face with it 2x.. Once to remove makeup, once to clean skin more. I don’t find it too harsh for somewhat dry skin. If my skin is super dry, i use a balm cleanser on dry skin, rub it in, then rinse with a warm wet rag, followed by a normal face cleanser. I personally like a balm cleanser more than micelar water.

    10. Use a cleansing balm first, like Clinique one (lots of options) to get off eye and any heavy face makeup. Follow up with gentle face cleanser like CeraVe or Vanicream cleanser. Immediately follow with serum and moisturizer to lock in moisture.

    11. As a dry skin person, here’s my routine:
      *Remove makeup with cleansing balm or oil – currently I’m using Versed Daily Dissolve Cleansing Balm (from Target), but I also really like the Josie Maran Argan Oil Cleansing Oil for makeup removal as well
      *Wash with a hydrating foaming cleanser – I’m currently using Paula’s Choice Optimal Results Hydrating Cleanser

      Then I do retinol (alternating nights) and then Laneige Sleeping Mask for some moisture before bed.

    12. +1 on double cleansing and using a cleansing balm. I start with Clinique Take Off the Day balm and then follow up with a gentle Neutrogena cleanser and then bedtime serum and moisturizer. It gets all the makeup off but isn’t drying.

    14. I use the neutrogena wipes and then whatever cleanser I happen to have on hand at the moment, usually something from one of my subscription boxes, with a clean muslin cloth. I swear the muslin cloth does a better job exfoliating my sensitive skin than anything else.

      I’ve tried micellar water, various balms, and oil cleansers, nothing takes off eye makeup as effectively and painlessly as the wipes. Anything else burns my eyes and requires a lot more rubbing. I don’t love the environmental impact, though.

    16. To clarify: double cleansing refers to using an oil/balm cleanser first (gets off makeup) then a normal cleanser to truly clean/get off the oily remover. Super recommend this! For my dry sensitive skin, the DHC cleansing oil, farmacy balm, Banila clean-it zero balm, or surprisingly the ELF holy hydration makeup balm have all worked well. Depending on your budget, Fresh, Kiehl’s, Ole Henriksen all make fantastic cleansers (2nd step). La Roche-Posay is a popular more budget friendly option.

      My (admittedly over the top, but works great for my sensitive eyes, picky skin & earth-friendly) routine is – cleansing balm + a makeup eraser (like a reusable makeup wipe! a cloth you just get wet) for eye makeup, cleansing oil for face, then all over regular cleanser.

    17. Balm cleansers are perfect for this. I personally like the glow recipe papaya one, or the Farmacy green clean. Elemis makes a wonderful balm cleanser but it’s pricey.

      You rub the balm on your skin before using any water. Then once you’ve rubbed it into your makeup, you emulsify it with a little water, then take it off with a wet washcloth. All your makeup will come off.

      Some people “double cleanse” which means starting with a balm cleanser, then following it with a foaming liquid cleanser to pick up whatever is left behind from the balm cleanse, but I don’t bother with the second cleanse. I find my skin is soft and perfectly clean after the balm cleanse, so I just move on to serums etc after the balm cleanse.

    18. My go-to for this is to use ponds cold cream (the greenish top) first. yes, it moves makeup around a bit but when you use a hot/warm wash cloth to remove it, it feels great. I then use the regular Fresh Soy cleanser. Then it’s all about what you put on next. If you’re using actives, you may want a light layer of something hydrating first ( hyaluronic) then the active then a good moisturizer.

    19. I do not wear a lot of makeup but prefer waterproof mascara and liner. Philosophy Purity cleanser does a good job of removing both in a single step without a lot of scrubbing, and doesn’t dry out my skin or leave it feeling oily.

    20. I second the double-cleansing method, especially if you have trouble removing mascara with Bioderma micellar water. I use any balm/oil cleanser I have in my drawer, focus it on eyes to break & dissolve hardened mascara fibers, then follow with Bioderma micellar water to remove the oil and rest of make-up. Then I wash off all with water in shower.
      Over the holidays, I have tried my mom’s Bioderma Hydrabio Micellar Milk and it did successfully remove all make-up [including mascara] in one go. Might be worth a try.

    2. Why wouldn’t jewel tone knit tops and ponte pants and dresses work? Same shapes and silhouettes with a casual fabric?

    3. Do you mean that you want form-fitting, jewel-toned clothes to wear while you’re in your home office, or are you looking for clothing to wear in other settings?

    5. I read your question as what’s the 2024 equivalent of this past trend (aka the Sheryl Sandberg look)? aka what’s the aspirational work look? Seems to me like 2024 is maybe a slightly oversized suit with cool glasses and flat shoes? I don’t think form fitting or jewel tones are trending now…definitely looser silhouettes. I’d say Aritzia or the Row maybe? cheaper I’d look at Everlane or Mango. Neutrals are definitely trending, but also cherry red accents… like cherry red sambas. if you do want form fitting and jewel tones, maybe look at Brass (ponte pants, lots of jewel colors)?

      1. Heh. His frothing at the mouth when it turned out his wife did similar things as Claudine gay has been so satisfying. You can practically see the indignantness jumping out of the screen at you.

    8. the necklace looks like mother of pearl to me – maybe like here? https://www.etsy.com/listing/897353483/white-mother-of-pearl-statement-necklace?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=mother+of+pearl+chunky+necklace&ref=sr_gallery-1-3&pro=1&frs=1&organic_search_click=1

      if you want an exact match you’ll have to find another picture of her where you can see more of the necklace, then do reverse google image search

    9. wait are you speaking and want that look, working from home and want that look, or speaking and want a more modern version, or WFH and want a more modern version?

      agreed that jewel tone solids aren’t that in right now, i think whoever said oversized slouchy suit is probably correct, or oversized slouchy blazer.

    11. I believe it’s something that combines both your questions: the “Zoom blouse” + a bold lip, interesting earrings and/or statement specs (eyeglasses). You might be able to search that particular phrase and pull up a few fluff/listicles with brands as starting points. I’d pair the Zoom Blouse with a pair of straight legged dark wash no contrast stitching denim trousers or wide legged easy-care, easy fit wool trousers + a driving shoe/moc or a pair of comfortable slip on shoes.
      I’m assuming that since you WFH you aren’t required to wear business formal like public-facing/public-figure CEOs, and can be much more casual and comfortable.

  5. DH & I are going to Aruba this summer to celebrate our anniversary. We have a hotel (Bucuti) booked and it includes breakfast, but otherwise we have no plans yet. Any tips for activities or dinner restaurants? Would you recommend renting a car or can we make do with organized tours and cabs for dinner?

    1. rent a car if you want to go to beaches around the island. cabs should be fine for nearby restaurants.

    2. If you’re big into food, there are a few exclusive chef’s tastings places that are amazing!

    3. We went there on our honeymoon (the Bucuti) 17.5 years ago and it was heavenly! They had a private dinner on the beach there that we enjoyed so much we did 2x. Also liked dining with our feet in the water at the Flying Fishbone.

      1. Thanks! We’re doing the private beach dinner on our actual anniversary. Glad to hear you loved the resort :)

    4. in general in the islands we find the better the view, the less work the food has to do for the price – so while Flying Fishbone was unique, it was only middling in food quality vs. meals we had at lower-key places with no view. Wacky Wahoo is one that comes to mind as a repeat visit for perfectly cooked fish of all types!

      we prefer the freedom of coming and going as we please with a car rental.

      1. Thanks! and yeah we’ve observed the same thing about view vs food (not in Aruba specifically, we’ve never been, but in other beautiful places).

    5. aw we did bucuti! 15 years ago though. at the time they offered dinners on the beach in cabanas, and that was lovely. my memory of the rest of the restaurants was that they weren’t that great, at the time the big thing in aruba was white asparaagus and cheese sauce, and every single restaurant did that.

    6. it’s been awhile, but we loved the Italian restaurant at the lighthouse. beautiful views, looking at Google, I think it was Faro Blanco. Also, therestaurant with the black swans was cool, Ruins del mar, it’s at a hotel. have a wonderful time!

  6. This is a pretty sweater. I’m to clumsy to wear even a $15 white sweater though.

    Low stakes question: how do you deal with trash in your car? Do you have a particular bag for it?

    1. This is a pretty sweater. I’m to clumsy to wear even a $15 white sweater though.

      Low stakes question: how do you deal with trash in your car? Do you have a particular bag for it?

      1. I do this too! I am also in the “small kids wrangling” phase of life and am not great at packing in and out my trash, so I make just it a habit to clean out the car while I pump gas. As I wait to fill the gas tank, I gather trash, and shake out the floor mats. Shaking out the floor mats makes may car look much cleaner than it actually is.
        On the weeks I don’t get gas, I definitely notice.

      2. Same for me but my kids have never heard of taking their trash out of the car (despite me saying it every time they’re in the car) so it does pile up between gas station stops. And I find random things in the door pockets and back of front seat pockets all the time.

    3. Depends on the kind of trash…food trash comes out immediately when I get out at home. I park in the garage, so it’s not too difficult for me and is my goal for most trash – get it out right away. Small trash like tissues or whatever sometimes accumulate in the drivers door storage slot thing, and gets emptied every time I fill up with gas.

    4. I don’t let trash stay in the car once it is parked at home. Removing garbage is part of my routine, along with bringing in my phone and keys.

      1. This. I stick it in the door wells and then clean it out when come home, or will dispose of it when I get gas, whichever comes first.

        1. Pack it in; pack it out. If the car is parked at my house, it is getting detrashed by the people (usually spouse/kids) who brought in the trash. I don’t leave trash in my car. I grew up with a “family use” car as a teen and that was a sure way to lose that privilege. It held over into adulthood.

        2. Same. Plus I have an ironclad rule that I don’t eat in my car, which pretty much eliminates most of the trash right there.

    5. I don’t generate a lot of car trash, so I take it out as soon as I get home or stop somewhere (gas, hotel, etc.) The only time trash accumulates is on a road trip, so then I might bring a ziplock bag or something, but even then we tend to pack most of our food, so there’s not that much trash. If we do buy food, I usually just put trash in the empty bag it came in.

    6. I don’t have a receptacle for trash in the car because I dispose of it as soon as I arrive where I’m going. My car still has its fair share of clutter in the form of spare paper bags for groceries, coats ands gloves, and books or magazines for when someone is stuck in the car waiting. But there’s no trash in it. For the first two years, we didn’t eat in the car either which really eliminated most mess.

    7. I got a small reusable car trash bag from Am*zon that lives behind my center console – I have 2 kids so I needed somewhere to catch random wrappers & other stuff that kids always bring into the car.

    8. My kids leave papers and other trash in the car. DH and I occasionally open a rear passenger car door for a kid, look around at the trash, then look at each other and say – we really need to clean up all this trash in the car. Luckily, the kids are past the stage of crunched up cheerios everywhere.

      1. This is me :) I grab an extra plastic bag at the grocery store and have my daughter clean up all her backseat trash when we get home. Her mess, her job.

    9. Did not expect this many responses!

      I love the idea of just throwing away the trash but I am frequently dealing with kids and their stuff when I get home, and lots of files and whatnot when I get to work.

      I will line a small bin with a bag. I have something I can use already.

      Thanks for running my life team!

      1. If a kid is big enough to get a snack, they are big enough to help picking up trash. Even in day care, picking up and putting away was how you finished an activity and you had to do that before moving on to what is next. Easier to train them now than do it for them forever.

    10. Everyone is supposed to take out their own trash upon exiting the car. It mostly works.

    11. There are 3 things that help motivate me to deal with car trash every time I get out of the car, rather than letting it accumulate. First, we put a garbage can in our garage, before the entrance to the house. For some reason, being able to throw away trash before even stepping foot in the house makes it so much easier. When I park in the garage I deal with trash first, then walk back to the car to unload anything that needs to be unloaded. Second, I really do try to develop the habit of anything that takes me 60 seconds or less, I do it now. This helps me with general clutter so much. Finally, as someone who sits a lot at a computer, I also try to remind myself the importance of NEAT (non-exercise active time) throughout the day. A little extra effort to gather up trash and to take the steps back and forth from the car to deal with it is good for my body.

  7. Could use some advice. I am writing a review for an employee on my team, who is really good at her job. I would like to see her advance, but one thing that may hold her back is that her natural enthusiasm can come across a little cheerleader-like. A touch overly enthusiastic; waves her arms when describing something – for lack of a better description, it seems to fit a new grad more than someone in her early 50’s. She is genuine- this is not an act, she is truly a born optimist who approaches life with a lot of enthusiasm – but I think a touch more gravitas would help her advance in what I hope will become a more public facing role (she’s not in the legal field at all – think Public Affairs). I am struggling to find the words that aren’t too persona or demeaning (i.e. she will apply a lot of bright pink shiny lip gloss throughout the day, which skews young). Her wardrobe is okay, but her mannerisms might prevent people from seeing her as a good fit for a higher profile role handling more serious issues. Any coaching on words to use to help with this?

    1. I think this is all nonsense and you should focus less on whether the shade of her lipstick makes you feel good and more on how you her supervisor can break down barriers to her success.

      How did you even write this out and hit post without doing some self-reflection?

      1. Your tone skews toward being m3an–is that necessary? I agree re: lipstick choice…but the day is young, be nice!

        1. When I want advice on how to waste time dressing up sensible, not mean, not attacking, advice on the internet with enough sunshine and rainbows for you tell feel excited about it I’ll let you know.

        2. The tone that skews toward mean is not 10:06’s reply, it is the post that 10:06 is replying to.
          Performance reviews should be based on performance, not lipgloss or wardrobe or the optics of genuine enthusiasm.

          1. This. I feel bad this poster is her supervisor. No man is going to critique your lipstick like that. So gross.

    2. Question: if this best done in a performance review or is there some sort of training that she would benefit from? I think these issues come across a lot better if it’s “consider taking Toastmasters;” it isn’t personal, a lot of high level people take those trainings, and it’s actionable.

    4. If she’s in her 50s, this persona is clearly who she is. Does she want to advance and has lamented that she’s not getting there? I think you have to be careful in how you frame this: something that alludes to developing the gravitas that more accurately reflects her skills and experience. Or, stick to something more actionable. Perhaps media relations training, or Toastmasters.

      1. Also, I would be very careful about doing this in a performance evaluation. I might separate it from that completely and just have a conversation.

        1. Agree wholeheartedly. Keep the performance review positive and focused on performance outcomes. Keep your suggestions (tone and gestures, specifically) for a conversation.

        2. I agree with this. Several times my confidence has taken a long term hit from evaluations that were, “you’re wonderful! Here’s the top rating! But you’ll never advance because (some gender-specific feedback.) That would have been more successful if those had been separate conversations.

      2. Media training sounds like a great idea, especially if she wants that more public-facing role. Don’t mention the lipgloss.

        1. I’d just put media training in as a development goal so it’s all positive. She hasn’t had the opportunity for media training yet so you are going to give it to her to support her development and advancement. Not because she is somehow deficient.

    5. Don’t do this nitpicking about her mannerisms or makeup in a performance review. You don’t actually need to criticize people just because you’re not allowed to give everyone a strong contributor rating. If she asks your for tips on landing a job that requires a certain image then sure, comment by offering her some resources (which surely your company has if image is so important there?). This doesn’t sound like it’s an issue with her performance, it sounds like you have a hang-up about pink lip gloss and your fear of how it’s perceived by others.

      1. This this this.

        Please, please, please can we stop with the idea that an evaluation of someone’s entire persona is warranted in a performance evaluation.

        How is her performance? Rate that.

    6. Everything you wrote is here completely subjective not to mention ageist and sexist. Never put touchy feeling subjective things in a performance evaluation. If you can’t come up with concrete examples of how a behavior negatively impacted performance, that’s a good sign it doesn’t belong in a performance review.

      Memorializing in a written review that you perceive her to have an unprofessional demeanor does nothing to help her and everything to hold her back. Her other supervisors will be more attuned to the professionalism issue. If she’s up for an internal promotion they’ll reconsider her because you said she can’t be taken seriously.

      I don’t think you should “coach” her about this. Your post comes off like you think a 50-something professional woman should fit a certain mold and she doesn’t therefore she’s doing it wrong. That attitude is way off base. Fwiw I’m in biglaw and one of the rainmakers in my office is a ~60 year old woman who wears bright pink lipstick and literally makes cheerleader-like arm movements on a fairly regular basis, usually while saying something uplifting and vaguely cheer-like. She also has a high pitched voice, the horror. Not all professionals are sedate and serious. We’re allowed to have personalities.

      2. Totally agree. If I had a supervisor like OP I’d be finding an employment attorney to represent me, stat.

        OP, for god’s sake focus on performance and not things like lipstick and enthusiasm and “acting her age” COME ON!

    8. As someone with a bold personality and sense of style, I just laughed my way to the upper ranks. This is a you problem, not a her problem.

    9. Leave this out entirely and rate her performance.

      Also, don’t assume others even view this the same way you do. Anyone who’s ever sat in a hiring committee knows that different people view mannerisms differently.

      Just let this go. At best you offend her, at worst you make her paranoid and shake her confidence.

    10. I don’t even know how you can legitimately comment on this is a performance review when all you have said is that her mannerisms “might prevent people from seeing her as a good fit” … do you have anything on which to base this other than your sole perception? I would offer constructive opportunities to put her in those higher profile situations and see how she performs, pink lipgloss and all.

      1. Strong agree – do you actually have any reason to think this is an issue? If so, share those examples (but NOT in a written review). And use the review time together to find out if she wants to advance and figure out a plan to help make that happen, which likely is more about you singing her praises and getting her opportunities and exposure and less on you revising her personality and appearance.

        And I don’t know if you’ve ever been to the South but I have been lucky to meet many smart, talented women who are bright and bubbly and even wear pink but can absolutely destroy you in a deposition.

        1. I read this whole thing thinking, “Huh? How is any of this a problem?” Then realized I’m in the south where a lot of women are “girly” and then will slaughter their opposition in a deposition or at trial. Everyone has stories about this.

    11. My law firm sends senior women up for promotions to a leadership workshop that included a fair amount of coaching on “executive presence” Is there anything like that you can send this individual to?

    12. I hope that from these replies you have realized that the concepts of a “professional appearance” and “professional demeanor” are pure fiction. I do not even know where you got the idea that one’s apparel and makeup and presentation have an effect on how one is received at work. Especially for women. Do you really think that anyone is looking for advice on such things? Absurd.
      Single blue nails, hair ties on wrists, and pink lip gloss FOREVAH.

      1. Despite this sarcastic comment, I do agree with the comments suggesting that this conversation, if you have it, should be separate from a formal performance review.

      2. “I do not even know where you got the idea that one’s apparel and makeup and presentation have an effect on how one is received at work. ”

        um… I agree that OP should NOT say something to this woman who sounds amazing, but surely you are joking with your statement here?
        Of course one’s presentation impact how one is viewed, especially a woman. Like, this is life 101.

        1. It was sarcasm. The single blue nail and hair tie on wrist were huge firestorms about “professionalism” on this site, tenish years ago. The poster is alluding to those discussions.

      3. At first I thought this comment was a joke. In case it’s serious, I’ve dealt with a number of senior men and women who would have been taken more seriously and gotten much farther if they’d presented themselves professionally. It’s not all gendered. The senior man I worked with who wore faded black chinos, a ratty tie apparently left over from the 1960s, and scuffed black sneakers instead of a proper suit, tie, and dress shoes, and who frequently made comments that were just shy of inappropriate, was passed over more than once for opportunities that were instead handed to me as a relatively junior woman who knew how to dress and comport herself in front of judges and legislators.

        1. Wearing unkempt or too casual for the setting clothes is a whole lot different than not liking the color of someone’s lipstick. Man we women need to be better with each other.

      4. Wow. This was not meant to pass over you. I thought it was pretty obviously sarcasm given that it is posted on the message board of a blog aimed at providing advice to women who work as to how to best present themselves at work (mostly sartorially/aesthetically) in order to advance (or at least not hinder) their careers. But maybe the blog never had a reason to exist and its decade+ of existence cannot be explained.

        1. If OP’s subordinate would like to present a more corporate image in line with what this place recommends, this place will certainly come up in any searches, and then she can read more, or ask the commentariat here because they will certainly provide advice. But the difference is that she would be asking for advice. It doesn’t sound like that’s the case here. She did not ask OP for this tyle of advice.

          I shudder to think about what her performance review with OP is going to look like (lip gloss, enthusiasm, acting young) vs. what her male peers performance reviews are going to look like (projects delivered on time or not). Good luck with the ensuing employment discrimination claim, OP! Maybe you can try NOT to be part of the entrenched misogyny problem in the corporate world.

    13. Don’t make this into a problem because it’s not one. I can’t believe you’re seriously considering putting this in a review.

    14. OP here – wow, been a while since I’ve been so Corporette flamed. The amount of hate that gets spewed on this site is truly amazing.

      For the few who responded to the substance – Excellent advice about separating this from her review; she’s very good at her job and I’ve already given her a very high rating. Review conversations are generally when we talk about next steps, and I’ve been trying to prepare her for a wider role – which is why I’m thinking through this while writing her review. Poor word choice on my part.

      1. Said gently and with kindness. It’s nearly unanimous, maybe you should let go of the defensiveness and listen.

      2. LOL, everyone was responding to the substance. Sorry you didn’t like the message.

    15. While I completely agree with the posters who say this is not appropriate for a performance review and the ones who are suggesting that if she wants to advance (and that point is critical!) some type of training might be warranted, I am going to push back on the idea that “presentation of self” does not matter or should be ignored.

      I wish we lived in a world where appearance, tone of voice, gestures, etc. did not matter. Where people would be judged solely on the quality of their work. But (and maybe it is because I spent the majority of my professional life in litigation) it is not true. It has never been true. I doubt it will ever be true. If someone appears in front of a judge, a client, and especially anyone who wants to try cases in front of a jury how you present yourself matters. That applies to clothing, makeup, verbal mannerisms, etc. Jurors are notorious for fixating on things like shoes! I once had a juror tell a (male) attorney that his tone of voice when he was questioning my worst witness was bullying and it definitely hurt his case. Further, while my experience is with litigation, I suspect it applies just as much to any outward-facing role.

      I have worked with associates who wanted to try cases and were not going to get the chance because of the way they presented themselves. I have known male senior associates who have taken other male associates out for drinks and said the equivalent of “Dude, you need to up your suit game if you want to go to trial” or suggested that they video themselves talking to eliminate some annoying mannerism. But nobody (including me) wants to say that to the women because they get so much pushback about how it is sexist.

  8. We’re considering getting a new car to replace an older Subaru Outback. Our priorities are AWD, hatchback, hybrid, a quiet ride (we notice a lot of road noise in the cabin in our Outback), and some manual controls – we hate those unsafe infotainment systems that make you wade through four touchscreens to do simple things like turn down the volume or turn on the seat heater (this is absolutely a dealbreaker). We also want something that isn’t huge, so a small crossover would be ideal. On the hybrid/electric question, we live in California and feel more comfortable with a hybrid due to the extensive rolling power blackouts we’ve faced in recent years, but with our car usage patterns, a plug-in hybrid might work for us so we could typically do electric for local trips and have the gas option for our mountain road trips. A lightly used car would be great but not sure that’s realistic with hybrids/the newer technologies. Recommendations?

    1. RAV4 hybrid (or Prime, if you can get one) seems like a perfect fit for everything you list!

          1. Well, it’s AWD, hatchback, hybrid (and Toyota has good hybrid technology), minimal touchscreen at least in the 2020 model that we have, and relatively comfy for a non-luxury car. Ours isn’t old enough to know yet but hopefully it lives up to Toyota’s reputation for lasting forever and being relatively low-maintenance. Our other car is a Kia Niro hybrid that has a lot more luxury features but no AWD and probably more trouble to maintain over time.

    2. My sense of that AWD + hatchback + hybrid is going to be tough to find. You can knock off one of those requirements (go with a subcompact SUV or a car with very good gas mileage) and open up your options.

    3. Looking at an AWD Toyota Corllacross hybrid now (online; can’t find one in a dealership yet) — will be watching these responses.

    4. I’m with you on the buttons vs menus!

      It’s too big for you, but the Ford Explorer (hybrid or regular) is a totally under-appreciated SUV with…BUTTONS AND KNOBS! 🎊 Since they’re a knob-friendly manufacturer, you might see if they have a smaller model. I’m so in love with my Explorer that I’m keeping it until they come out with an electric one.

      When I was looking a couple years ago and saw the giant screens on the Subarus at that time, I ran away fast. Who the heck thought flipping through menus was a good idea for simple tasks while driving?? “It’s easy once you learn it.” No way is it as quick as turning the volume knob.

      1. From what I have heard, touch screens are cheaper to install than knobs and buttons. Cynically, I think it’s a way to “brick” a perfectly functional but old car: “oh the manufacturer is no longer supporting the software for that” or it no longer pairs with your phone or what not.

    5. Consider the Lexus UX hybrid. I briefly had a Toyota Corolla hatch, which I did not love, and just picked up the UX about a month ago. I feel like the balance between physical buttons and touch screens is a good one (my car before the toyota was a base model 2011 VW golf with a CD slot and that’s it). The driving experience is lovely: quiet, comfortable, and very safe-feeling.

      1. Exactly. My 2024 Lexus NX350h is a dream. I switched from 2014 Subaru Forester.

    6. The more recent Subarus are dreadful on theat touch screen thing. I feel like I am going to get into an accident just trying to adjust the heat or turn the defroster on.

      1. I read an article somewhere that said that it takes on average 45 seconds to adjust something on the touchscreen while driving. That’s 45 seconds of distracted driving and it’s so needless!

        1. A few companies are going back to knobs. I will be in the market for a hybrid SUV in a year so I am following with interest.

      2. Really?! My 2021 Ascent has buttons for this. I’m so disappointed if they’ve moved everything to the *%% touch screen.

        1. I also have a 2021 ascent and love that it has real buttons for the things I might need to adjust for driving and then touchscreen for non-driving things like phone sync set up.

    8. I don’t know what the Hyundai Tuscon hybrids look like but the regular tuscons only use the touchscreen for entertainment. They still control a/c, heat, all that stuff manually.

      1. Second this. I test drove the rav4, crv, volvo xc60, Lincoln corsair, Audi q3. For the price, I liked the Tucson hybrid best.

    9. Have you looked at the newest Crosstrek? We got one this summer and while the infotainment center is large, it’s not as big as the Outback and all the controls you mentioned — seat warmer, volume, front and back defrosts — are actual buttons.

      We literally cannot fit an Outback in the garage, so looked at a few Volvo models, which may be worth checking out.

    10. Check out the Toyota Venza. I had a previous version, from 2007’ish, that was my favorite car ever. It was discontinued for a while but is back now as a hybrid. I believe it still has knobs for climate control.

      1. I was going to suggest this as well, though I don’t know the knob situation. I’ve got a 2020 Forester and I went with it over the Outback in large part because it had more knob controls. I hate the giant touch screens. (I like my Forester, but no hybrid models if you’re set on that).

    11. Subaru Crosstrek hybrid. Reportedly, it is being discontinued, or rather, Subaru is no longer researching plug-in hybrids and focusing on purely electronic cars for the future. Subaru tends to have manual/analog controls available. I have a conventional (combustion engine) Crosstrek and LOVE it, especially all the safety bells and whistles. The variable cruise control is a dream for road trips, just punch in the speed and take your foot off the gas pedal!

  9. Does anyone have trouble with receding eyebrows? One has lost about half an inch of length by where it comes toward my nose and the hairs are very sparse where they used to be full. The other eyebrow is about the same and at its original length. I need a dark brown pencil or eyebrow product to help fill in (and any advice you have on techniques or products). I’ve bought several drug store pencils and they are all too reddish. I’ve looked at the Anastasia products but my local Sephora is overrun with teens and the workers seem to be of the glitter-clubbing makeup tribe (great for them, not what I need for an office look).

    1. Yes, my eyebrow hair is very sparse. I am absolutely loving Maybelline Brow Tattoo right now. It is a tint that you leave on for 20 minutes and then peel off. It lasts for days and looks pretty natural on me. I can go swimming and still have eyebrows!

      1. Use the Just for Men beard and mustache dye. Google for a tutorial. It works great and is really economical.

    2. Do you have a Nordstrom nearby? Schedule an appointment with the Anastasia makeup artist there.

    7. I have sparse eyebrows, especially at the tails, and dark brown hair. I’ve been happy with the Surratt Expressioniste pencil in brunette. I really like that they have refills to the pencil so it is less waste than other twist-up pencils. I also combine the pencil with Benefit’s Gimme Brow volumizing gel in the shade 4.

    8. Pixi makes a two ended eyebrow product where one end is the mascara-like gel brush and the other is a pencil. It’s available at drugstores. Get a shade a little lighter than your brows. For the most natural look, use the gel stuff first and then go in and fill any bare spots as needed with the pencil.

    9. My favorite is the urban decay brow blade, I think the pen style is the most natural at creating hairs and extending the line of the brow. The best tutorial I have found for using that sort of pen style is katie jane hughes. Just google her name with brow tutorial and you will find a couple videos that i think are really helpful on technique, and how to prep the skin.

    10. Yes, and very subtle microblading took care of it. I was SO worried about getting sharpie brows, but my tattooer has a portfolio of before and after pics online and I picked one after pic and told her that was what I wanted. It’s perfect, she just drew in hairs where I am missing them. I got it done in 2021 and expected to have to do a touch up by now, but they’re still wonderful. You can’t tell they’re not real hairs unless you’re very very close to my face, like magnifying mirror close.

      All I have to use now is a little brow gel. It’s so nice. I used ALL the brow products before this, and once inadvertently wiped one of my “eyebrows” off during a zoom call on a hot day. That’s when I realized I needed to look into microblading. Zero regrets.

  10. Is your partner or S/O less intelligent or driven than you? Is that a strength or a weakness and has it caused problems in the relationship?

    2. My husband believes himself to be the less intelligent one. At the beginning of the relationship he saw it as a plus and loved to engage in intellectual conversation with me and to brag about his smart, educated, accomplished wife. A couple of decades later it’s become more of a negative, especially since I think he may be experiencing a touch of early cognitive decline. There is a marked difference in our processing speed that makes conversation frustrating for both of us at times, and he gets mad when I understand new or complex concepts more quickly and completely than he does. I think much of this is just laziness and self-absorption on his part but he attributes it all to innate differences in intelligence. (I do outscore him by a lot on IQ tests and aptitude tests but that shouldn’t matter as much as he thinks it does. Just pay a little more attention, dude.)

      If your partner was only a “regular gifted” kid and you end up with an “exceptionally gifted” child, you will probably also have problems convincing them of your child’s special needs and capacities.

      I don’t think that’s what you’re asking, though. Are you really asking about a mismatch in careers and lifestyles, like a construction worker and a lawyer?

      1. This was kind of painful to read… you think he’s lazy and self-absorbed and should just pay a little more attention, but also that he has reduced processing speed, early cognitive decline, and frustration with his own limitations compared to decades ago. What if he has sleep apnea or a vitamin deficiency or something?

          1. I also wondered if this could be a hearing issue. I’m not sure how old you are, but I think hearing loss is pretty common beginning in mid-life and can make a real difference to ability to comprehend conversations.

        1. We both applied to grad school (I went, he didn’t) and both had IQ tests as kids.

      3. I hope I am wrong but this comment sends out a lot of “Gottman harbingers of a coming divorce” signals to me.

        1. Right? Contempt — one of the Four Horsemen of the [Marital] Apocalpyse.

    3. I am more “book smart” than my husband and I enjoyed school and did well in school. I am now a lawyer. He is smarter than me in other ways (sense of direction, math skills, ability to build things). He is a contractor. However, I think we have a similar amount of drive. We both work hard, just doing very different things. If he wasn’t motivated, I think it would cause problems. But I see that he is willing to work (honestly probably harder than me) to reach our goals. We have been married for 18 years now.

    4. A key question to ask yourself is, Less intelligent in what way?
      People have all sorts of different intelligence and interests.
      Emotional intelligence? Practical common sense intelligent? Book smarts? Reads a lot of intellectual stuff? Discusses ideas about spirituality but doesn’t care about politics? High level of craftsmanship but not interested in reading op ed pages? Etc.

      1. This. There are different types of intelligence and strengths. My brother is academic and book smart. I’m better with the practical common sense things. He’ll read a medical research paper and understand what all the stats mean, but I’ll be the one who can follow discharge instructions and hook our parent to the IV pump at home. Neither of us think the other as being less smart. I can’t imagine being in a relationship where you think the other isn’t as intelligent. Won’t that lead to disdain in the long run?

      2. Yep. My second husband was definitely WAY less book smart than I, but he was an absolute genius when it comes to the physical universe — electronics, household fixes, navigation, etc. Too bad he was a malignant narcissist with zero emotional intelligence beyond what it took to manipulate me all those years.

        My current husband is, perhaps, slightly less of a legal eagle and fact-knower than I am, and he reads maybe four books a year while I’m reading 80 to 100, but he is also a physical universe genius (former engineer) and also has great emotional intelligence. I’d say on balance he is the smarter one overall (and, adiorably, he’d say the same about me).

    5. Is there something specific you’re looking for advice on? Or are you writing an article/blog post on the topic?

    6. Intelligence and drive are very different things. If you’re conflating the two then that’s a big problem.

      For many people, their best quality and worst quality are two sides of the same coin. If you’re a type A woman then you might need a man who’s more go with the flow. But, that go with the flow guy might struggle with executive function stuff like following up on things or being self-motivated. That could be a great balance but it can also be frustrating to feel like your partner is sitting around waiting for you to tell him what to do.

      1. +1, I am the Type A “book smart” woman and my husband is the laidback “street smart” guy. It creates some natural tension in our relationship, but overall I feel like we balance each other pretty well. If it weren’t for him I never would have realized my love for traveling and been willing to spend money on travel the way we have, which has brought us both a lot of joy. If it wasn’t for me he would likely have significantly lower retirement savings and his life would be significantly more disorganized (although tbh I’m not sure how much that would bother him lol). I frequently tested in the 99.9% in school so while I am “smarter” than him in that sense, he is much better with numbers, sense of direction, spatial awareness/ability to build things, and much more of an extrovert so better at chatting with strangers, etc.

    7. I have really had to learn how to frame my perceptions about my BF in this area. He is plenty smart, but he does not come from a background where people seek a lot of higher education. He’s had lots of different kinds of practical jobs in his life and has always supported himself just fine but he does not have “a career” and while I can see one developing from his current job, it isn’t something he thinks about much or strategies around. What he does do is take on side hustles to supplement a salary lower than what he’d like it to be, and I have a lot of respect for that.
      i am 100% certain I’d beat him on an IQ or standardized test on any day. But he beats me on the EQ practical exam of life daily, takes better care of his home and car and things and dog than I do, has a wide range of interests and experiences and curiosity about things he’s not been exposed to, and has taught me what being a partner in a committed relationship looks like.

    8. DH is more booksmart and less ‘life management’ smart. The lack of life management skills is hard sometimes with 3 kids and a lot of international travel for work and family. I didn’t realize how much his brother was doing until after we were married – trip planning, initiating financial
      Management when they shared a car etc. DH can follow through (like cook all the meals and do all the dishes) but he’s is not a good manager/planner.

    9. First off, there are so many different types of intelligence and types of drive. I have surprised many colleagues and friends that my drive has totally, totally changed. I know a former mentor is a little disappointed that I am no longer gunning for a “big job” because I realize a lot of the drive I have is now focused to non-job things. I have a great government job that I love and I do well at. I’m almost done a Master’s degree in my field. But, I will be totally happy if I cap out at a 13 or 14, I no longer have a desire to be an SES and leading my department or representing my agency in any form. What I do have a drive is to be that friend / relative that people go to when they need support, to me that’s my biggest goal in my life. Personally, I also want to run a sub 4 marathon. I want to be around more when I have kids than I previously valued. Most of my drive is focused on non-professional endeavors.

      That being said – I’m not a deadbeat in my career – I make enough to support myself and a decent lifestyle. I am financially secure. I worked hard to get where I am. I work hard at my job, I just don’t work hard outside of my 9-5 and don’t care about promotions the way I once did. I have a good reputation among my colleagues and with my boss.

      If a partner wasn’t financially secure / didn’t have a path to financial security, couldn’t hold down a job, or wasn’t doing well at a job that would be a very, very different issue.

    10. So I almost married someone that was much, more more academic than me. He was an Ivy League undergrad, an ideas guy, someone that would stay up worried about Big Things. After four years, it just wasn’t working for me and it was a me issue, not a him issue. I have a lot going for me but I couldn’t ever enjoy the kind of debating he enjoyed. His family was the same way- his mom was a professor, dad was an author, one sister was working on her PhD in religion and one sister was an artist – she was my fave.

      The next guy I dated (and married) was also smart, but different. He is hands on smart. Got a perfect score on his SATs but didn’t work hard in high school, ended up with a full merit scholarship to a well regarded but not ivy league school. Was an engineer for a bit, then went into business. He’s been a COO for two separate companies. He is smart in a way that compliments me- I’m socially smart and a hard worker; he can do math so fast it makes my head spin and has an insane memory. He met my old boyfriend and found him “tiresome and exhausting because we have not one thing in common” which I found pretty funny. It was before we dated and was said super neutrally- just “there’s nothing for me here.”

      My old boyfriend became a very famous journalist, has several books out, and married a woman who was a much better compliment to him. We see each other sometimes and our kids are about the same age. My husband still finds him tiresome ;).

    11. DH is way smarter and way less driven. It is not a problem because because I am aware of it, accept it, and don’t try to change him. He is who he is.

    12. DH is way smarter and way less driven. It is not a problem because because I am aware of it, accept it, and don’t try to change him. He is who he is.

    13. My husband is much less driven than I in terms of a career. He made some very savvy investments a few years ago and is now independently wealthy. He doesn’t need to work, but he does occasionally do gig work for extra non-capital depleting cash. He does have goals in terms of passion projects, but I have my doubts that he’ll ever re-enter the “real” workforce.

      However this is great for us. He’s already a low key and easy going person who is a “rock” to my more anxious and high strung self. He has very little stress in his life. Is this occasionally irritating? Sure. But… he’s available to help me pretty much 24/7 and when I had a high-travel job it was great. He does the dishes every night so the kitchen is clean for me when I wake up. He also helps out with errands if I ask and contributes around the house. He’s a househusband basically.
      However, he’s as, if not more, intelligent than I. There’s no way I could tolerate a man who is not as intelligent nor would I want to. I find the strain of anti-intellectualism in the US to be alarming and upsetting (not that it’s on this forum by any means!) So many people try to convince women to settle for men who are less intelligent and intellectual than them–I notice this never happens the other way around (where men need to be talked into dating less-intelligent women) with old chestnuts about how plumbers are just as smart as school teachers and people “they know” with their PhD’s are “some of the biggest idiots out there” or whatever nonsense they’re peddling.
      The core of our relationship is conversation. Having a genuinely pleasurable conversation for years and years with someone not as smart as you is unlikely.

      1. Maybe, but given how many smart men see value in relationships with less intelligent women, my dating pool would be extremely, extremely limited if I were exclusively fishing what remains of the 0.1% the tests put me in. I did find an intellectual match in my most recent ex and he was riddled with emotional and mental health problems (some stemming from being so smart), wanted to see me less than weekly, despite living within blocks, and ghosted me altogether twice before the final time. The daily conversations were exhilarating, but not enough. I am much happier with someone who brings other things and is “regular smart.”

  11. Anyone else get emails from MASKC?
    On 12/4, they sent out an email with subject line “A Heartfelt Goodbye” that they will be closing on 12/31 and selling all their remaining masks at $1 each until they sell out. Then over the next couple of weeks, they sent out a bunch of emails like “you can help us save MASKC! buy now!” to “we’re selling t-shirts now” “buy a KN95 subsription!” and an EOY letter from the CEO with no mention of their potential closing. So I guess they’re not closing?
    I think they did this earlier in 2023 too where they announce they’re closing as a way to boost sales and then they are saved. Isn’t this unethical or something?

    1. Unethical? Girl what?! It’s a store. “Closing now” sales that last a decade are as old as time.

    3. I had to finally mark them as spam because it felt like they were emailing me 5 times a day!

    5. “Isn’t this unethical or something..”
      Have you ever taken a marketing class? Or seen how quickly the June ads are gone once June is over?
      Businesses have always thrived on this stuff.

  12. If you have curvy or soft hips, I would love your advice. I have a couple of pairs of jeans that make me feel great when I put them on. They fit well, they’re comfortable, and yes, they don’t do much to hide the fact that I am curvy through the hips. Then I see myself in photos, and I am horrified by what I look like below the waist. Is this a camera problem? The wrong pants? They are bootcuts and there is some whiskering in the denim, which looks fine in person (or so I thought) but maybe doesn’t translate well in photos. Or, maybe I just need to get over myself. I’ve noticed it in a range of photos over the past six months or so, and it’s really bugging me. Is that actually how I look?

    1. I was told once that the camera adds 20 pounds.
      I learned to accept that I’m never going to look great in photos and just wear the clothes I love.

    2. It’s almost impossible to help you without photos. You could try Reddit r/outfits subreddit – you can post photos and commenters (who are generally kind) will give constructive suggestions.

    3. Maybe it’s an issue with your tops not having the correct proportions to pair well with those jeans? Depending on where your tops land and how they are cut, they can draw a lot of attention to your hips.

    4. It’s not the jeans. It’s how you’re posing for the photo. You’re probably subconsciously comparing yourself to other photos you’ve seen online – those people know how to pose. Look into it. My photographer friend took a photo of me at a conference, and before he snapped it, he spent a good 5 minutes telling me how to pose. And it’s one of the best pics ever taken of me (good thing, because it ended up featured in the marketing for the next year’s conference). I’m sure you can find lots of stuff online.

      All that said, if you know you have soft curvy hips, the camera is still going to reflect that. Some of this is self acceptance. Soft, curvy hips are great!

  13. Question for the hive, I’m a NYC native married to a transplant and we live in the Westchester burbs. I mentioned over the weekend that we (as a family) should take the train in more so that our kids get used it it and can be comfortable going in on their own in high school (10th grade seemed reasonable to me). My husband thinks this is nuts and that 12th grade is the soonest he’d be ok with it for our kids (we have a boy and a girl fwiw).
    My parents started taking us into NYC on the subway in 7th and 8th grade to get us used to navigating/exploring and we went in solo by 10th grade at the latest (plenty of NYC kids have long public transit commutes so this is ‘late’ by some standards). The city is MUCH safer these days than in the 90s and I’d rather my kids go explore a city (bookstores! cafes! music venues!) vs. drinking in basements/the woods like so many of my college friends seemed to. What do you think/what are your kids doing?

    1. NJ native here and I was regularly taking the express bus in high school; out train was just commuter hours but the bus came more and went to Port Authority. NJ doesn’t let you drive until age 17, so I was doing this from at least age 15/16 on. Then subway once in there (mainly to W4th street / Greenwich Village by NYU). I did then learn to take the Path from Hoboken once I could drive there (scary). Bonfire of the Vanities was Exhibit A for never driving in the city.

    2. So I’m only 30, which makes my experience from the early 2000s, but my parents let me go wherever I wanted starting in 9th grade which included the train into the city, subway, and buses to friends houses. I felt this was totally appropriate and I never felt unsafe. I had a cellphone for these adventures but I never needed it for safety reasons.

      1. Brooklyn kid here too, we got paper transit passes in high school in the 90s and were ALL over the city with those. The early blue metrocards (no free transfers) and then the city limiting trips per day put a damper on things but man was it fun to be able to go wherever we wanted for free!

      2. Yeah same. Raising my kid in Brooklyn and she will likely take the city bus to middle school starting in 6th. I’m sure I’ll ride with her a couple of times to make sure she knows the route well, but she can manage it. I can’t imagine not being allowed to go to manhattan on the train in… 11th grade. How is that more dangerous than driving?

    4. I grew up in Westchester. I took the train with my parents all the time as a kid. Early in high school (9th or 10th grade, for grade spring break, my dad bought me the weekly train ticket and gave me a daily budget and let me come up with an itenerary to explore the city on my own. I loved it and really got to know the city that way. He was in the city and I had a phone so I had a backup plan in case something happened or I didnt feel comfortable and needed to meet up with him.

      1. I love your dad’s spring break idea! What a fun way to foster independence and get your own feeling of your city.

    5. I grew up in Westchester and used to go into the city by myself from 10th grade onwards – I think that was a good time.

      A lot of kids did go into the city to drink though so you still have to keep that in mind.

    6. Your husband is nuts. Your kids are old enough to drive but it’s not ok for them to learn how to take the train? That’s so backwards. He wants your kids to be nearly 18 before they visit a city other than on a school field trip? No just no. Parents should teach their kids how to exist in public. My parents did not do this for me and I felt like such a country bumpkin (which I kind of was) when I got out on my own. I cannot imagine living so close to the city and not helping your kids learn how to navigate their way around and also to be safe!

    7. Chicago burbs and my kids started taking the train with me, babysitters, etc. when they were little (toddlers loved taking the commuter train, lunch at McDs at the train station, return trip on the train). When kids were maybe 12 and 9 they took the train by themselves and then walked to my office so that we could do an outing in the evening. Starting in HS, they went into the city without parents for the beach, Lollapalooza, ballgames, museums and shopping. They should get comfortable with the city as early as possible so it doesn’t freak them out later.

    8. I’m with you, OP. I want my kids using transit on their own a few years earlier, after plenty of hands-on guidance from me. And my region has worse transit than NYC.

      Not trusting a typical kid to use transit until 17 sounds like a recipe for all sorts of problems.

      1. I feel like every city kid I know got into SO much less trouble than the kids who grew up in the burbs. It’s actually pretty hard to get a bar to sell you alchol underage, getting it from someone’s older brother/cousin/friend at a house party was much more likely.

        1. When I was growing up in the burbs we drank in the burbs at parties or in friends’ basements, but our alcohol was always bought in the city. We all knew of a few packies that didn’t card and got all of our alcohol there.

    9. I grew up on Long Island and started taking the train into the city with my parents when I was around 5. I went to the city with friends and no parents for the first time in 9th grade and went several more times without parents throughout high school. Always had an itinerary and my parents knew who I would be with and what train we would be on coming home.

    11. Depends on the maturity level of your particular kid, of course, but all of my friends and I were regularly taking the subway sans chaperone from 6th or 7th grade in the early 2000s (rode along with our parents from early years — train commutes were just a fact of life). My parents’ rule was we called when we changed locations so that “if we were dead in a ditch they’d know which ditch”. That was before everyone had a cell phone, so I’d think keeping tabs on location would be easier now. Give your kids the independence! NYC is so much safer now and being able to navigate a city on your own is a life skill.

    12. Is your husband from a place with public transportation? I’m not in NYC, but I grew up in the Philly burbs and many of my friends took the train to school (private school so we were coming from all over), extracurriculars, or friends houses in middle school (my two best friends from then started taking the train to school at age 11) and took it downtown to explore the city in high school. I would say, most of our socializing was spent in the burbs but we certainly did take public transportation (either within the burbs or to the city) and spent time exploring the city somewhat regularly.

      By the time we were taking the train to the city by ourselves, we were both very familiar with taking public transportation (around the burbs by ourselves and practicing going into the city via train as adults) and we were familiar with the city (going in with adults). So, the newness was the freedom to do it unsupervised, not taking a train or being downtown.

      That being said – Exploring the city and also drinking in friends’ basements are not mutually exclusive! My friends and I certainly did both…

    13. I feel like there’s a key element missing from your question. What are your kids like? Are they independent, good problem solvers, responsible? Can they order at a casual dining restaurant and pay without help by middle school? Or do they look young for their age and cry when stressed or flummoxed? Do they lose their phone all the time? This is a kid-by-kid determination, not something you make a rule for.

      And I second the comment above that most of the teenagers I see riding the commuter rail into the city aren’t going to bookstores and cafes. They’re going to party where they won’t be seen.

      1. +1 We lived in Westchester, now are in Fairfield County, and while I have no qualms about my kids learning to ride the train, and am not generally overprotective, I don’t see frequent trips to NYC by themselves as teenagers to be necessary or even desirable. I lived in the city as a young adult and am plenty familiar with the trouble even somewhat mature young adults can get into (and will seek out), never mind teenagers. I don’t think husband is crazy.

    14. Once one of my children didn’t get off at the right subway stop at age 9 and knew exactly what to do: Get off at the next stop and look for someone with a uniform. My Brooklyn nephews were taking the subway to school by 7th or 8th grade. Lately I see commuter trains full of high school kids going to the city for concerts, museums, sports events and window shopping. Even the latest trains home are full of theatergoers and theater folks and feel completely safe. (I used to work until midnight.) Just show them the ropes and have a plan in case something unexpected happens.

    15. I had a long public bus high school commute with a couple transfers, including a pretty isolated transit center and I did it with my older brother starting at age 13 and alone (with a cell phone) at 15; so your ages sound pretty reasonable to me. But depending on your kids’ ages now – starting with taking the train as a family, talking through emergency plans, etc seems like the right move either way — you don’t have to decide when you’ll let them do it alone before you’ve tried it with them

    16. Grew up in the Chicago burbs and took commuter train in with family starting when I was little, and by myself or with friends in 10th grade. Took me longer to get used to the subway but the commuter train experience was a very helpful foundation. Kids will do what they’re going to do – I think having a cool city outlet is really important for kids who don’t want to just party.

    17. I think letting your kids navigate transit and explore the city is one of the greatest gifts you could give them. It is one of the best reasons to live where you do. Independence is the centerpiece of what I think a good parent gives their kids, and comes with the benefits of confidence and problem-solving. Plus I just think the opportunity for kids to develop interesting personalities if encouraged to seek out what NYC offers is incredible. I have always lamented that my family moved away when I was just a toddler.

    18. I am with you. I grew up in Fairfield CT in the 90s/00s.

      I was allowed to take the train from there to NYC with friends (no cell phones) around age 16. I was not allowed to go into nyc alone. My parents may have said something like don’t take the subway, or maybe not, but I did- again, with friends (and no cell phone).

      Friends of mine commuted to high school on metro north. Not necessarily to/from nyc but from say, Greenwich to Fairfield to attend Fairfield prep.

      I’d say the commuter rail is a bit different than the subway, but if they can drive a car they can take the train!

  14. I’d like to start using a credit card just for business expenses – to help me track stuff better. I am a part owner in a business. I already have an Amazon Visa (no fee) for personal. Can I get another Amazon card but use it for business, even though it’s just me? If yes, how? Would you suggest another card for business use? I have some travel, but mostly by car. Probably half a dozen hotel stays in Minneapolis or other Midwestern cities per year.

    1. I got a Marriot Bonvoy card for business expenses. I get a ton of points from Marriot stays

    2. i have a chase account for personal with an amazon card, and have had a chase business account for years that also came iwth an amazon friendly card — chase sapphire? no fees. it definitely helps me keep track of stuff, i try to run all deductible expenses through that card.

    3. For my one person business, I just use a debit card I got when I opened the business checking account, but I don’t travel and don’t really knock up enough expenses that would make a rewards-type credit card worthwhile. Since I run everything through the debit card, it all pops up on the same bank statements with my other transactions, which is convenient for me.

  15. I’ve seen a lot of ads lately for skincare prescriptions services, including ones that have estrogen-based creams for your face. I’ve never heard of estrogen in facial products before – is this new? Does it actually work?

    1. Dr Dray had a recent post on this on her vlog and it seems there is some evidence, but as this is relatively new, ‘more studies needed’.

    2. I think all the recent research is pretty much focused on vitamin c and peptides. If you’ve got niacinimide (if that works for you – it’s great for me), vitamin c, and peptides in your skincare, I think you’re covered.

      I’d be worried about hair growth with estrogen creams, if they’re even real. Sometimes companies add so little of an advertised “active” it’s not even active. It’s like they think about estrogen as they fill the bottles and that’s it.

      1. I think all the recent research is pretty much focused on vitamin c and peptides. If you’ve got niacinimide (if that works for you – it’s great for me), vitamin c, and peptides in your skincare, I think you’re covered.

        I’d be worried about hair growth with estrogen creams, if they’re even real. Sometimes companies add so little of an advertised “active” it’s not even active. It’s like they think about estrogen as they fill the bottles and that’s it.

  16. Confession: I don’t know how to look for a job. I’ve only done two job searches in my life, one coming out of college and one coming out of grad school, and both were a long time ago. In each case I got interviews through OCI and through my network. I am looking to switch fields so my network can’t help me this time around. It’s all very daunting–it seems like people only get interviews through networking, and that all resume screening is done by algorithms that will weed me out because my degree and experience appear different from the typical candidate’s. Beyond figuring out LinkedIn, where does a career switcher start looking for a senior data science job, preferably one that doesn’t relate to monetizing people’s personal data?

    1. Networking certainly helps, but it’s not the only way to find a job. You can also just start applying places.

      1. +1 it may be industry specific, but while networking gets talked about a lot, I’ve gotten all my jobs (including the senior leadership job I have now), just by applying online. If you’re open to sharing roughly what you industries you’re pivoting from/to, people may have more specific suggestions. Also, don’t totally count your network out – assuming this is a reasonable pivot for you, people may actually be of more help than you think.

    2. I’m hiring for a senior data engineer right now, so very similar.

      Figure out LinkedIn, use it look for jobs but actually apply on the companys website.

      For the algorithm part, you need to have the data science terms – which programs, tools, packages etc that you’ve used on your resume.

      Check out Idealist, TechJobsforGood, DiversifyTech for the kinds of jobs you’re looking for.

      Let me know if you have any specific questions.

    3. With regard to the monetizing people’s personal data part, do you mean you don’t want to go to FAANG company?

      Because you mentioned figuring out LinkedIn, I’m assuming you aren’t on it or don’t use it much? I’d start there because that is a really good place to connect with folks in your industry, be found by recruiters, and see open roles. You can Google articles on how to set up your LinkedIn and start using it.

      I wouldn’t assume that everyone gets a job by networking – I’ve had multiple professional roles and I’ve only gotten 1 through networking, and that was only because a recruiter called my friend and my friend suggested the recruiter talk to me instead. Every other role I’ve had, I’ve gotten just from submitting my resume in the application portal.

      Finally, do you know other data science people, like former coworkers or peers at other companies? Are there data science professional orgs that you could attend just to get a feel for where other members work?

      1. Definitely not FAANG but also not marketing of any kind. I am coming from nearly two decades of social science research related to social justice, so I’d be much happier working on data science problems that contribute to society in some way or advance human knowledge or are at least about building or making something other than money. Smart power grids? Aerospace? Some sort of research?

        I just started using LinkedIn and it’s sending me a lot of e-mails about data science positions at sketchy-sounding companies with vague responsibilities and widely varying salaries. No contact from recruiters yet. I guess I just start spending the 2+ hours to apply to each position and get rejected by the algorithm?

        1. It should be nowhere near 2 hours to apply to each position. I’m in HR and frequently read resumes, participate in hiring process. First step, have a really strong resume as a baseline. Build it after reviewing several job postings for roles that sound good by copying some of the key skills/experiences that you have. Make sure your job titles are matching what the marketplace calls them. You should only tweak your resume maybe 15-20 minutes per application.. just enough to prioritize specific experiences or skills based on that language. Once you have done it a few times, you will get more used to navigating the application process. But load your resume as a PDF to start, yes you will have to repeat some of the info in fields. If it’s taking you more than 30 min per job, something seems off. Unless a cover letter is specifically required, or expected in your industry skip… no one i know reads those.

          1. I’ve filled out a couple and they required that you fill in a form with a bunch of information that’s already on your resume, and upload a cover letter. It adds up to a couple of hours if you are tweaking an existing cover letter to fit the position.

        2. 1 – you can turn off those LinkedIn emails and also tell it what kinds of roles you’re looking for, so you don’t get emails about sketchy companies
          2 – is your profile complete? Once you’ve got some key terms for your industry on there you should start hearing from recruiters. Are you set as “open to work”? You can set that so that only recruiters see it and not everyone on LinkedIn. I’m not a data scientist but I was a data analyst for many years and I still get recruiters reaching out to me about data roles because of my experiences on my LinkedIn profile.
          3 – applications shouldn’t take 2+hrs! IMO cover letters are stupid and I don’t do them unless I need to explain how my experience applies to the job, and even then, I’m giving it 30mins tops and then I just submit.

    4. It’s really hard to switch fields. I’ve done it twice (retail to admin, admin to IT) and it takes a lot of luck to find hiring managers and HR folks who are willing/able to think outside the box and consider a person whose experience is different. OF COURSE a lot of your prior experience is relevant, but many don’t see it that way and it sucks. Everyone *says* they want diverse experiences and people on their teams, but the reality is you will need to do a lot of extra legwork to find the ones who actually mean it. The movie “Working Girl” hits way too close to home sometimes.
      In my most recent experience, most of the time, resumes weren’t screened by AI/bots, but they were screened by people who don’t have good critical thinking skills, or experience in the department the listing is for. As an example, if the position required a bachelors in a specific field, but I had a bachelors in a different field and a master’s in the desired field, I was ruled ineligible. It’s ridiculous and as an applicant, there’s not a damn thing I can do about it, except tweak my resume to account for it next time.
      Keep at it – it will take a while. Job searches suck so much. At least with dating, you can take a break, but when you need to find a job, you need to find a job.

      1. For the issue of your prior experience not being relevant in an obvious way – that’s what the cover letter is for. It’s a very important tool when you are switching fields. Yes, the person screening your application may not see how your experience relates to the position, or they may not even be that familiar with the position (if it’s a centralized HR person), or they may just not have much time to devote on this.
        That is why your cover letter needs to spell out how you will apply your expertise and skills to specific parts of the job description, and how this sliver of your current job is a big part of the open position, and you are applying because you love doing that very thing. Coming from a different field , you need to work a little harder than an applicant with a traditional background to convey 1) why you have the right skills 2) what’s your motivation to make this switch and 3) whether have you thought it through and understood the job description.

        1. Yep, you can do all that and it STILL takes a lot more effort to get someone to actually give you a chance.

    5. Do I read this correctly that you are trying to switch from an attorney role to a senior data science role?

      I’m not sure this is feasible or desirable. Tech is in a major downturn for hiring right now and the salaries for this role are falling, as in going down. But more to the point, would you be able to perform the activities of a data scientist? The data science jobs I know of have functional interviews that are intended to evaluate whether you can do the tasks expected of you. This is to say nothing of the fact that senior roles expect experience.

      If you are set on this, I would suggest a Masters program in Data Science. It would give you some skills and a better resume. Many of the large employers have certain programs they have relationships with, which gives you that network that you are missing.

      1. I have a law degree and a social science master’s and have been working in research. My skills and experience are equivalent to those of a social science Ph.D. with a quantitative bent, and my previous position required a Ph.D. but an exception was made for me because of my skills and law degree. I never took the bar or practiced law (long story as to why I got a law degree instead of a Ph.D.). I am looking to pivot to data science because my current field is very small, there just aren’t a lot of opportunities for growth beyond where I’ve gotten, and I’m sick of the politics and the heavy travel. A master’s in data science would be a waste of time and money and might actually hurt my career prospects because I think I’m really looking for a Ph.D. role. I might be able to get into a good Ph.D. program but that seems like a poor investment at this stage of the game.

        1. This is where networking comes in. Are there any companies you have worked with in the past that are of interest to you? How about people you used to work with that have moved on? Catch up with them on LinkedIn or by phone/email, see what they are up to, let them know what you are on the lookout for and maybe they can make some connections for you.

    6. Read the book Switchers by Dr. Dawn Graham. It’s specific career searching guidance for switchers (industry, function, both–all kinds), from a pro who led career services at Wharton’s EMBA and is a psychiatrist (or ologist? I cannot recall). Designing Your Life will get reccs here, but that’s like the foundation–if you don’t know the actual steps to take to execute on the design, you’ll never get there.

    7. I would read Working Identity, which I found helpful in making a career switch

  17. I’m desperate for work pants as I prepare to go back from maternity leave. I still have 6 weeks to figure this out. I’m probably a 14/16 at the moment, bigger than ever. I’m really a wreck over it mentally tbh but I’m also trying to just be practical, too. I need to dress the body I have at the moment and deal with getting back to feeling myself later. So, where do I get black pants?

    I’m a 39 year old millennial. 5’8″ and carry it all in my midsection, a pouch in the front (partially where the weight settled and partially due to my c-section). I was “curvy” fit even before baby. My style is “millennial stuck in my millennial fashion ways (skinny jeans 4 life)”. So I’m focused on not being trendy TBH and just getting myself looking professional/polished enough.

    Job is client services, client facing tangent of finance. Mostly men who are dressed in Patagonia vests and button downs basically. I need to look polished.

    Uniform prebaby was MMLafleur, Jcrew, Boden – mostly dresses. Some still fit as they were flowy, but most don’t at the moment.

    Help? Desperate help? TIA.

    1. Pull on pants from Macys were my go-to for my pregnancy and postpartum years. Brands are Alfani and Charter Club. Their website makes you click an additional link to see additional sizes, but they have a full range.

    2. I can relate! Postpartum I wore Betabrand yoga dress pants and Nic + Zoe wonderstretch pants (these were the nicer of the two and come in long lengths but I made it work at 5’9″). There might be better pants out there, but these accommodated my postpartum apple shape. I also got lots of mileage out of this dress: https://www.shopbop.com/product/vp/v=1/1541483261.htm

    3. Honestly I wore my maternity pants for a while after pregnancy when I went back to work. I couldn’t wear the full panel styles, but the ones with the shorter elastic waist (I forget the term for these) that I wore in my second and the beginning of my third trimester worked great until my body decided what shape it was going to settle on.

    4. Old Navy has a Pixie flare pant that isn’t made out of the same material as the other Pixie pants, it’s more like a thick ponte. High waisted, very stretchy and forgiving, and bonus is they are available in tall sizes. I’m five months postpartum and own them in four colors. For reference, I’m 5’6″ and currently a size 14 and the length is just a tad too long for me to wear with flats.

    5. I did a personal shopper appointment at Nordstrom after my first kid. YMMV but I hated mail order roulette and wanted to just have a huge selection of stuff available to me right then and there so I could try it on and accept/reject. The woman who helped me was attentive to budgetary concerns and really helpful; I ended up with two pairs of pants, a few blouses, and a jacket or two, all of which I could mix and match—just enough, when combined with the stuff I already owned and that still fit, to get me through a week in the office.

      1. While I’d love this to be true, I struggle to find things that fit me in the store, which wrecks me mentally. Not a lot of size 16 clothes out there. Was your experience with larger sizes or more common 0-12?

        2. The high end of 0-12, but still in that range–sorry to not have considered that in the original post; I wish I’d been more thoughtful!

    7. Athleta Endless High Rise Pants in Tall, size 14. (The regulars are just right if you prefer bare ankles.

    8. Are you only 6 weeks post-partum? Don’t start buying work pants now. Do it the week before you go back, or two if you have to order online, and buy only the absolute minimum you need. My body continued changing for about 8 months post-partum, and the pants I bought to return to work stopped fitting well pretty quickly.

      As for pant shape, any pants that are not skin-tight look reasonably current.

    9. For basic black dress pants, I go with Talbots. I am the same age as you and carry weight the same, but I’m a lot shorter. Talbots has a massive size range compared to many places. A 14 or 16 womens pant is going to be cut more generously in the waist and hips than a misses 14 or 16. Also, they have curvy fits in some sizes. I’d order the same pants in a few sizes, try them all on, and return what doesn’t fit. Once you have your size figured out, they run pretty standard across styles.

      1. Second this. Talbots has a 60 day return policy, so order a few sizes. Try curvy. Misses sizes go to 18 and I think Womens sizes start at 14. They fit differently, so try both. Big sale now, but new stock is replenished regularly so if you don’t find your sizes, try again in a couple of weeks. Good luck.

      2. +1 to Talbots — black, wide-waist, pull-on knit yoga pants (not leggings) in the T by Talbots line should do the trick. Wear a tunic-like (untucked) top. Also, Duluth Trading Company’s NoGA Naturelle (cotton) line is also very comfortable, durable, and stylish. Good luck!

    10. I would buy something cheap at Target/Old Navy etc. Just find something that you can bear to wear to get through the first few months. You’re probably going to be pumping too, so need easy access clothes. Wearing a nice lipstick/gloss and shoes that made me happy help me get through the postpartum doldrums.

      I think if you do your hair and add some jewelry, it won’t matter that you’re dressing lower quality for awhile.

    11. Universal Standard has some of the best pants for plus sized women carrying their weight in the mid section. You should be able to find some very gently used or EUC or even NWT online secondhand to test out the right fit and style without spending tons of money.
      I also like Vince, Lafayette 148, J. Crew (size up to be sure, especially in pants) Banana Republic (tts), Eileen Fisher –FYI the brand does not “run large”–it’s cut boxy and oversized on purpose, I used to work there, and this is a common misconception. However, the cut is generous so you might find yourself in a size or two smaller than other brands depending on how you like the fit. But the “Missy” sizing (numbers like 2, 4, 6) are tts. Anthropologie is also a surprising resource but they carry Plus and Tall sizing, go up to 16 in straight sizes and start at a 14W in plus. They also have pants sized in letters, and those are often very forgiving and easy-wear.
      As to Nordstrom, I’m a 16 and sometimes an 18 if I want a looser, more slouchy fit and I’ve had no issues at Nordstrom. Some designers or certain brands won’t have sizes, but many brands do carry up to a 16 or an XL/XXL and that’s where I’d go. The “in house” less expensive brands are where it’s at. Grab a pair of pull on ponte pants that’s sized XL or XXL and go with those for now–that’s likely your best bet if you’re doing Nordstrom.

    12. The Fold makes ankle length dress pants with elastic back waist. Optional matching jacket. Very forgiving. I wore PP and am now wearing during first trimester.

    13. J Crew Factory Jaimie pants with longer tops + sweater or blazer and chunky loafers. I’m in the same boat and it’s really hard!

  18. On Friday I asked a travel question about Intrepid trips and got the hint that you could call and get an idea of what the mix was for people on the tour you’re looking at. I had no clue this was an option but when I called about the specific date we were looking at, it turned out that the mix was much much older. THANK YOU for that hint. We changed dates and found a broader mix that seems like it will be more comfortable for my mom and me.

    1. Yay, glad that worked! As a solo traveler it’s really important to me to make sure it’s a good group fit, so I’ve frequently changed my trips based on the makeup of the group. I hope you and your mom have a great time!

  19. So, how does one date in 2024 in your late 30s? I’ve bee divorced for just over a year from someone I starting seeing at 20 (thank you to everyone here who helped me realize it was not good!). I’m very happy with my life as-is, but it’d be nice to have someone romantically involved in my life again. I don’t know how you go about this! I’ve never done the apps, but that seems to be the way. Any advice on starting out?

    1. The apps work as an introduction service. Or at least that’s how I think of them. I used Bumble because I liked that the woman had to initiate. It was successful for me in finding an SO. That relationship recently ended after a few years together so I’ll probably use it again when I’m ready to date. When I used the app, my approach was to have fun and enjoy meeting a bunch of people and that worked well for me. There are some really good resources out there to help with dating. A book I see recommended a lot is “How Not to Die Alone.” I’ve not read it but I’ve listened to a few podcasts by the author and it sounds like a good approach. Another book a friend of mine used was “Finding Love in 90 Days.” The Dates and Mates podcast also has good advice. A friend of mine recommended the Burn Haystack method. It’s a FB group and the woman who coined this method also has an Instagram account and several articles out there about it. It’s philosophy is to be up front about what you want (rather than try to appeal to everyone) and be ruthless in blocking people who don’t meet your criteria so that the algorithm resets.

      1. I’m glad to see more and more women telling other women to stick to their standards and trust their gut. I wasted so much time with guys who were never going to be good partners to me, usually because other women told me to give him a chance and I would be a jerk to break up with him over whatever red flag I saw early on. Our society excuses SO MUCH problematic behavior from men. And in doing so, often encourages women to view men as projects we can fix. It’s gross and demeaning to both genders.

        1. Yes. The red flags people spot early on and ignore are often predictive of the reasons the relationship doesn’t work. We would be saved so much grief if I we let go of men who are projects rather than partners.

        2. I have a friend who keeps falling for awful guys because she gives them every chance in the book. It’s so frustrating to watch!

          1. I have a long term single friend (in her 50s now) and everyone is quick to tell her she’s “too picky” but you know what she is? Happy. Good for her. Be picky.

          2. Unless you’re Leonardo DiCaprio and dumping women before their 26th birthday, you’re not “too picky.”

    2. Follow matchmakerMaria on instagram! Seriously, she is a hoot but has great dating advice and content.

    3. I think it depends on personality, but I have had success going out and doing things on my own and staying open to conversations with strangers that naturally flow from that, whether it is going to social events at my gym and mingling or eating dinner alone or going to plays and having brief conversations at intermission or making excuses to talk to someone at a professional continuing ed class. Also, remember that your social life expands exponentially, so having friends will lead to knowing more people and having more social contacts. Reach out to an acquaintance with a mutual interest and ask them to do something to turn that into a friendship and an opportunity to meet even more people. This is a great opportunity for you to grow your entire social life, not just app date from home (but try that, too, why not?).

    5. Also single at 40 after a divorce. I think the apps can depend on location. I was on the apps for a period of time but they were terrible and I kept seeing the same problematic men on them. Have found better success in letting people and friends know I would like to date and getting set up or recommendations the old-fashioned way.

    6. I married my high school sweetheart and got divorced in my early thirties. Great move for me as well. Dating for the first time in my mid thirties was hard and a completely new experience. A few thoughts on how I approached it-

      The apps require a lot of time and patience. I went through a lot of swiping and then a lot of first dates. Not many led to second or third dates, but I felt like I needed to see what was out there and tried to be open to dating a range of people, having never really dated before.

      If there’s a red flag on the first date, don’t bother with a second. Granted I made this mistake a few times, live and learn – but if you see something problematic on date one, guarantee you that will become a bigger issue down the road. Don’t waste your time.

      First date was always for coffee or a drink. A full meal is too time intensive and more likely than not, I was never going to see the guy again.

      Which brings me to my next point, which is low expectations. Think of each date as a chance to meet someone new. At worst, it’s an hour of your time (also – have an exit available – work, need to get home to the dog, etc), and you move on to someone else after. But maybe you learn something new or meet a cool person, maybe it leads to a second date. But I found that low expectations were key.

      Have a friend or a few who you can share your crazy (or annoying or frustrating) date stories with. My closest girlfriends are all married with kids, and loved helping me pick out date outfits, creating my profile, looking at guys’ profiles, and checking in.

      Have a few first date outfits so you don’t have to think about it each time.

      Sometimes you’ll need a break from dates and that’s ok.

      I’ve now been dating someone for almost a year and it’s going really well! But it required slogging through the apps for a few years and a lot of frustration. I am glad I dated around for a while before meeting him, because by the time I met him, I was ready to settle down again (and certainly was not ready to settle down right when I started dating post divorce).

      Good luck!

  20. Looking for a good book on the Mediterranean diet. A cookbook would be great or just a “this is what the diet is” book, but specifically not looking for weight loss. And I’d like something that focuses on Mediterranean food not ways to make other things fit the diet.

    1. I’m on the Mediterranean diet with no weight loss goal. Just focusing on being healthy.

      America’s Test Kitchen released a Mediterranean cookbook and it’s very good. I’ve enjoyed a lot of the recipes already and I just got it for Christmas.

      2. I just checked this out from my library. Have only browsed it but it looks amazing.

    2. I like the recipes on The Mediterranean Dish; they have lots of herbs and spices, and don’t taste like those grim recipes you get from a book written by a dietitian. I think she has a book

    3. I’m also on the Mediterranean Diet with no weight loss goals. In fact, I’m trying to put on some pounds right now. I love The Mediterranean Dish by Suzy Karadsheh and the book by Elena Paravantes that is something like Mediterranean Diet for Beginners.

    4. Mediterranean cuisine by Lourdes March, it is the book whit I learnt to cook (apart from my mother recipes).
      Easy local traditional recipes from all the mediterranean countries.

    5. New York Times is running a Mediterranean Diet newsletter the week of Jan 15th- you can sign up for recipes and guidance on how to implement.

  21. I really need some motivation. I set a goal for myself a few months ago to lose 30lbs by my 40th birthday, which is in June. Losing this weight would put me back at my “healthy” weight- not ideal, but also, not overweight. I put weight on when I had kids and it has just hung around longer than it should due to lifestyle creep, age, the pandemic, working from home, bad eating and drinking habits, less exercise, etc. I signed up for weight watchers and started couch to 5k. That went well, I lost 8lbs, and then then I sprained my ankle over thanksgiving and had to stop basically all movement for a few weeks, easing slowly back into things. So now I have 22lbs left to lose, in about 5 months. It’s do-able, it’s just a pain and I’m so unmotivated on an hour-to-hour basis, but in the long run, I *am* motivated.

    I hit a plateau over the last few weeks (christmas stress, a big work project, two deaths in the family, a ski vacation, plus my stupid ankle injury) and on new years decided I am cutting alcohol completely until I lose at least 10 more pounds, which will hopefully coincide with my beach vacation at the end of Feb.

    So with that novel as background, inspire me! Give me your tips, tricks, motivations, etc. Other ideas for incentives or motivation? I just feel like…ugh, my brain has other things to worry about and I don’t have room to pay attention to my eating habits…which is likely how I got here in the first place.

    1. With the caveat that I did not set out to lose weight, I did lose weight before my 40th by doing the following: (1) cutting back on alcohol; and (2) lifting weights 3x/week. Strength training made a dramatic difference in how I felt, my body composition, and overall weight.

    2. A friend recommended the LoseIt app, which is free. She had success and I am now also. While I found tracking my food with paper and pen to be a pain, I don’t mind inputting it into the app at all. I actually kinda like doing it – as though it’s a game. I know the information I input isn’t perfect because I don’t measure everything. But it is good enough for me and I’m seeing progress losing some weight that I’ve tried to lose for awhile but haven’t been successful.

    3. I’ve posted before and sorry & trigger warning for diet talk.

      My doctor advised me to lose weight slowly because I’ve had a tendency to lose weight and then gain it all back (sometimes with a few friends), which is true for 95% of people. That’s a real statistic. So his idea of slowly was a pound a month, which meant I didn’t target a huge calorie deficit, which is unsustainable. To start, I had a goal of 1500 calories a day, then cut it down to 1450, then 1400, then back up to 1450.

      And the needle started to move. I lost 40 lbs from Fall 2022 to summer 2023. So more than a pound a month. It just came off when I was honest about how much I was consuming, which for me, was tracking it in My Fitness Pal, and being honest about portion sizes. I cook a lot, so the app helped me enter the ingredients into “my recipes” – and yes, I was honest about how much olive oil I used in cooking, for instance, which means measuring it.

      The only way it becomes a sustainable lifestyle change is to be honest with yourself – no “these cookies don’t count because I had a hard day” or “it’s just one glass of wine” (oops it was 8 ounces of wine) – when I had to log something, then I had to acknowledge I was consuming it. It didn’t mean I couldn’t have a cookie or a glass of wine (4 ounces), I just had to account for it.

      Hope this helps.

      1. +1 to this approach. I also lost a lot of weight over a year or so by just counting food in an app. Set a goal to cut 500 calories or lose 1/2 a pound a week and count your food. If you have the funds, use a meal delivery service which gives you a rough idea of the calories involved and plug them in. Sometimes that’s easier if you don’t enjoy cooking or figuring recipes out.

        I will also add that reframing the goal to get healthier made a big difference. Maybe you’ll only lose 15 pounds by your 40th. You’re still healthier. You’re cultivating healthier habits. One, it doesn’t seem as defeating as giving up whole categories of food. And two, as the post about the Mediterranean diet above alludes to, you can still work on that goal regardless of weight.

        (**It took me 9 months to lose 30 lbs, probably 1.5 years for that to be 50, and under 3 years to lose 60. Mostly through diet and some walking.**)

        1. OP here…I know this is the way. I’m just lacking in motivation/inspiration.

          1. Is there a way that keeping the weight on would harm your health? Or did you notice that someone else in your life was at a certain stage of weight gain around the same age and as a result of not losing it xyz happened? I KNOW not everything health-wise is related to weight – so I’m not trying to suggest that. It is, however, a good motivator.

            Also, have you noticed that certain things seem more difficult with the weight? Maybe use that as a motivator. Or, set some small (or heck, big) rewards for milestones. The alcohol one is good. Maybe a splurge purchase? Or the ability to add on something fun to your vacay?

            I’m at the beginning of my “journey” with this. I’m looking at about the same amount of weight as you started with to get to a more healthier (and ideal) weight.

          2. Motivation and discipline are a crock. The way to be successful is to make the healthy habits enjoyabke and convenient. If you like running, great! The ankle injury is a bummer but maybe there is another exercise that is fun, or at least tolerable because you know it will help with your return to what you do find fun, that can be done while you heal. Strength training? Deep water running? As for food, make the healthy choice the most delicious and/or convenient. I love salads so making a fancy salad for lunch feels like an indulgence. Keep the thin Kind bars, nut packets, cheese sticks, etc. on hand for portion-controlled snacks. I bought an espresso machine and make my own lattes with 1% milk and really good espresso beans that don’t need much sugar, unlike the overpriced burnt swill from Coffee Bucks. I replaced lunchtime sodas with a low-sugar kombucha I really like. I keep squares of good dark chocolate on hand for a small sweet treat instead of junky packaged cookies. I enjoy drinking water from my ridiculous stainless steel cup. Etc. etc.

          3. Honestly, I couldn’t imagine losing as much as I did and didn’t intend to lose that much when I started. I didn’t want to buy all new pants and I was spending too much $ eating out. That’s why the meal delivery services helped me. Variety but better than takeout.

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