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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 248 Comments · by

Coffee Break – Cain Slingbacks

Coffee Break

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Donald J Pliner CainOooh: love these simple slingbacks from Donald J Pliner. And not only are they on sale — but they come in narrow widths, which I haven't noticed for a lot of other brands. The steepest discount is for the silver/natural sand color (marked from $250 to $129), but there's also a gray woven leather pair and a really stunning darker “tan/expresso” pair (which, if you have a hard time finding “nude for you” pumps, give these a try). They're $129-$225 at Zappos. Donald J Pliner – Cain (Silver/Natural Sand) – Footwear (L-4) Psst: The darker “tan/expresso” pair is down to $187 at 6pm.com.

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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Comments

  1. Honey Pillows

    Oooh, love these, but I’m terrified of slingbacks after the elastic on the last two pairs I bought disintegrated, making them completely unwearable. (Cobbler refused to even touch them. Sigh.)

    • a.

      Cobblers, man. I swear some of them don’t want work. I have one pair of boots whose soles cracked–took them to one cobbler, who said they couldn’t be fixed and acted like I was a freak for even asking, and then finally found one who would resole them. And they’re still going strong.

  3. MCA

    Can anyone recommend a rolodex? I would like something not too plain, but it still needs to do it’s job!

    • Bluejay

      I got a really pretty one at an art museum store. The company that made it is called Galison New York.

  4. EC MD

    The dark/tan expresso are gorgeous!! If only they had them in my size…

    Why do I want a large blingy watch a la Michael Kors? I don’t need a watch, but I love the idea of an oversized watch on my wrist. Not that I need it. I think my style focus is switching to accessories since I’m looking at another 6 months of fairly boring workwear and somewhat repetitive outfits. (Well, longer than six months considering postpartum body stuff, but let’s not focus on that).

    I told the other surgeon in town that I was pregnant. I had been building it up, as though he was my boss (he’s not) or my dad (yikes) and it was fine. I’m sure he’s grumbling under his breath, but it really will have minimal impact on him, unless things go not-as-planned.

    I think that fulfills my rambling for the day. But I may be back if work continues to be as slow as it was this morning.

    • C.Z.

      I LOVE my michael kors chunky watch. I have delicate wrists but I think the contrast really works, and I get compliments daily on it. I say treat yourself!

    • Monday

      I would not have bought myself a chunky watch, but Mr. Monday surprised me with one and I’ve ended up wearing it all the time. It’s a fun alternative to a bracelet and, because mine is multicolored rather than monochrome metallic, it adds color and interest to boring outfits. Consider it, at least!

    • phillygirlruns

      i never wore a watch until i got the same random urge as you – i bought my rose gold, oversized/men’s-inspired michael kors watch two years ago and have worn it constantly ever since. i get a lot of compliments on it and feel very naked if i don’t have it on. i vote that you go for it.

      • Rural Juror

        I have the same watch (or similar) and my rose gold is rubbing off. Is yours? I went to the MK store and asked and the sales associate said “yeah it’s just rose gold plated so it is going to rub off”. Sigh.

        • phillygirlruns

          yes, in spots – mostly along the bottom of the band, where it sits on my desk. it’s not too noticeable, especially considering how much i wear this thing (and how many times i’ve banged it against the wall coming around a corner).

    • Motoko Kusanagi

      I recently acquired a Kate Spade watch after never, ever having worn one previously. It is awesome.

    • eek

      Have you tried on the watch? If you have and you like it buy the watch in all the colors and wear them all the time.

      • eek

        Oh, the Michael Kors Lucy, Parker, Cameron, and Blair watches are in the Nordstrom Anniv Sale. $129.90-$166 (reg $195-$250).

    • Merabella

      I never liked watches, but recently my husband and I bought watches as anniversary presents and I wear it ALL THE TIME. I would go for it, especially since you feel like you are relegated to boring work wear because of the baby on board. Get you somethin nice girl!

    • MissJackson

      I recently replaced my average-sized watch with an oversized Michael Kors watch, and I love it. I was a little hesitant go to all-gold tone, so I got a tortoise shell and gold one. Love. Seriously.

      As an added bonus, telling time is really really easy.

      • EC MD

        Arrrgh. That’s the one I want. And I’m so not a gold jewelry person, but I just love it and I think the gold + tortoise makes it so I could wear my other jewelry with it and look purposefully mix and match rather than clashing. You are making this harder…. :)

        • JJ

          I will enable you! I got that watch for Christmas and wear it all the time. It matches everything and was totally a gateway watch for me. Before, I only owned my classic stainless watch. After I got the tortoise-shell one, I ended up buying two different ones (sheepish smile). As a fellow postpartum, limited-wardrobe woman, watches are my new favorite accessory.

        • Godzilla

          Let me continue yesterday’s enabling and tell you that you absolutely NEED A WATCH. HOW HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING ALL THIS TIME?

        • Bluejay

          Isn’t it time for an early push present, or something? Preg present? Gestation gift?

    • witness protection program

      I used to work for a firm that got a huge consumer fraud class action settlement against them.

      Their product minimizes the appearance of wrinkles because it contains peppermint oil, which causes inflammation. Essentially, it temporarily replaces wrinkles with puffiness.

      Don’t waste your money.

      • SF Bay Associate

        Yikes. Paula of Paula’s Choice is also very, very anti-peppermint oil because it’s an inflammatory/ skin irritant. And thanks for sharing, WPP. Posts like yours are why this site is so awesome.

      • eek

        I should elaborate. For me, it was the consistency of thick diaper cream (seriously) which doesn’t feel so good on the face since it’s so thick and hard to spread around. Which made me feel like I was tugging at my skin. Even though I used a small amount, I felt like I was wearing a mask until it fully absorbed and I am pretty certain it made my skin drier or something.

    • Coalea

      I have never used it, but when it first came out, StriVectin was for stretch marks. Now it’s being touted as a miracle anti-aging product. I know that people are always discovering new uses for things, but that strikes me as odd and would dissuade me from trying it – for stretch marks or wrinkles!

    • mamabear

      Save your money and get a prescription of Retin-A, which actually works.

  6. SpaceMountain

    Were any of you smart ladies the product of your school’s gifted program? If so, what things did you find the most helpful? I have a meeting with the principal of my daughter’s middle school next week, and would like some suggestions for what to request. I had her take the SAT this year as a 12-yr-old and her scores were around what I got as a 12th grader, so I’m kind of over my head here. Our school has no gifted resources other than accelerated math. Any ideas, or stories of resources you used to get the most of your education? Thanks.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      She should look into programs like CTY and Duke TIP (I think both of which require SAT scores for entry). They are 3 week summer programs which they hold at colleges all over the country. They’re expensive though, but IMO, totally worth it for a bright, inquisitive kid that doesn’t necessarily feel challenged by their local school environment.

      I did CTY programs through high school and really enjoyed them. That being said, I was in a “gifted program” in elementary school and thought it was mostly a waste of time. I did enjoy the accelerated English classes I was in, and definitely what was most important were my parents making sure I had plenty of opportunities to learn. What hurt me the most was that school came so easy for me for so long that when I did finally hit a subject I had trouble with (for me, 10th grade chemistry) I had zero study skills and plenty of attitude since I had coasted unchallenged for so long. So definitely emphasizing building those skills, keeping her engaged with things that are difficult for her, etc is important.

      • Kontraktor

        CTY was a good set of programs. I didn’t do their in residence programs, but my parents enrolled me in their correspondence/term-length algebra and algebra 2 programs, so I essentially self taught myself both of those things. This was a bit difficult though in terms of logistics. I went to a small private grade school that also had zero options for any accelerated coursework. My parents had to have long fights with the school heads about what to do with me, but finally they worked out an arrangement where during my 7th/8th grade years, I didn’t need to attend math class- rather, I would sit outside and do CTY work instead (did algebra 1 in 7th and algebra 2 in 8th). I did have to do the class homework and tests though, in addition to my CTY homework and tests. This was fine in terms of accelerating me in math personally, but then when I went to public high school, they wouldn’t let me skip algebra 2 (despite all the CTY certs/notes from my grade school that this had been approved), so I ended up having to repeat that, which was stupid. So, moral here is be careful of programs in terms of being able to take credit for them. They can be great if you just want to get ahead or instill discipline, but ultimately it may result in more repetition since schools might not count the work anyway.

        I also did tons of summer college/academic programs. When I was younger, I did things like science or English day ‘camps,’ and then by mid-high school, I was taking courses through my local university’s extention office. Tons of kids at my high school did this through community college as well. I also did a lot of music lessons outside school, so, not quite academic, but still required discipline, study, and practice.

        I think right now at her age, all you can really do is look into private tutors or summer/after school programs (in my home area there were tons of private tutoring schools that offered basically an extra day of classes in math/science/English/language on Saturdays), but as soon as she gets to high school, make sure she starts right away on whatever full honors/accelerated load there is. Don’t let the councelors there push you into thinking your daughter ‘can’t handle it’ if she wants and needs to be challenged academically. You can always scale back, but I find in large public high schools especially, it can be really hard to get into the accelerated/honors track later on if you don’t start there.

      • MaggieLizer

        Second CTY. I did a few distance learning programs (I forget what they’re called) in middle and high school and enjoyed them. Simon’s Rock has some great summer programs too; I think their admission is based on SAT scores. My school’s gifted program was pretty much worthless, so I definitely had to reach out to other resources to make sure I kept up decent study habits.

      • KLG

        “I had zero study skills and plenty of attitude since I had coasted unchallenged for so long.”

        That would be my main concern with your daughter as well. Ask about academic-related co-curriculars (Math Olympiad, Academic Decathlon, etc.) that might keep her challenged. Also push the accelerated math and ask specifically about the different course offerings to see if there might be other options in the works. It might be worth talking to her guidance counselor or one at the local high school to get ideas from them or see what she needs to do in middle school to qualify for any programs that the high school might have.

      • ELS

        This.

        I was in the gifted program in elementary school and also found it to be largely a joke. In middle school, the “advanced” classes amounted to taking 7th grade math as a 6th grader, etc etc. Math, science, and English were taught a grade-level advanced, with us completing those subjects at a freshman level as 8th graders.

        I hesitate to advocate skipping a grade at that age, because 12 years old is just such an important and awkward age for many girls (myself included), but IME it was very helpful to remain challenged. I was consistently bored in my regular-level classes, and because of that boredom, didn’t really feel like doing the work.

        • Kontraktor

          Mixed feelings on grade skipping. I have always been a little bitter my grade school wouldn’t allow this. My parents pushed for this for years, especially at the younger level where it probably would have mattered less (like, what is the difference really between 2nd/3rd/4th grade, especially when your reading and math level is already eons above everybody else’s), but the school was resistant. But at the same time I think it gets harder the older you get because there is less time to assimilate with your new classmates (who might know of you and have preconceived opinions of you already/the social circles are probably already well formed). I agree here that grade skipping is probably not the best choice and focussing on extracirricular work is easier (socially and politically in terms of fighting the school system).

          • ELS

            Agreed, though I think we had opposite experiences with parents v. school pushing for grade-skipping.

            My parents were 100% against me skipping grades, especially in elementary school. I think they would have been hesitant with any child, but especially with me, because, well, I was a little weird and very, very nerdy. This was not the norm in my area, where most of the parents encouraged sports, not school, so I was often the odd-man out growing up. They thought that letting me skip a grade to be academically challenged would just make this odd-man-out syndrome worse. The school, on the other hand, was all about me skipping.

            In the end, I have mixed feelings. I think it could be great for the right kid, and in my case, in retrospect, could have made my life a little easier, as most of my friends were the year ahead of me once we got to middle school.

            All that to say: I think that it could be an option, but it’s not the first one I’d suggest, because social development is also so so important.

        • Maine Associate

          Agreed. I was in gifted and talented in elementary school and it was a joke. I was pulled out of class with a few others to play board games. When I got to middle school, I was put into advanced math classes, but it all caught up with me when I finally got challenged with AP classes in high school and advanced classes in undergrad. I had no idea how to study because I didn’t have to. I coasted along and didn’t learn anything (seriously-nothing made it into long-term memory). I really never learned to study until law school when I was required to take a study classes as a 1L.

          • Anonymous

            The best part about gifted for me was getting to hang out with other gifted students. Please don’t allow them to overload your daughter with extra work. She is gifted so she shouldn’t have TWICE as much homework. I am sure she can entertain herself with projects at home. Gifted used to be enriching and interesting activities (I took TV production at the local community college in 1979 when I was in seventh grade) but now it is just more work. Say no to more work!

          • TBK

            ELS and Susan, I was in the same system. I was already a year ahead and when they cut the gifted program because of budgets, the school’s proposed solution was to skip me another grade (which would have wound up with me being one of those 15 or 16 year olds starting college). My parents did not think that was the “solution.” SpaceMountain, sorry but don’t have any suggestions. My parents put me in private school after third grade because there were no good options in the public schools.

        • SilverSpringWanderer

          I was moved up from 6th to 8th grade and would really recommend against doing it at that age. My experience is colored by the fact that I was in a relatively small school system, so I stayed in the same school when I skipped. Academically, I did ok (I had similar experiences to others in high school: Once I got to classes that were actually challenging, I was used to coasting, so I didn’t have the study habits to do more than ok). Socially, it was very, very hard. I don’t really have anything against skipping, in concept, but I think the timing is critical. Early elementary or just graduating early seems like it would be better that junior high/middle school. In the long run, it was fine, 8th grade and the first couple of years of high school were really, really hard.

        • Diana Barry

          I skipped from 7th grade to high school (9th). It was a lifesaver. I went to CTY in between to learn algebra. I was SO BORED in middle school and socially tormented bc I acted more like an adult. HS was much better. I started at age 12 and turned 13 in October of my freshman year in HS.

          I was also tall/developed so didn’t have any issues socially – in fact I had many more friends in high school than I did previously. The only bummer was not being able to drive until senior year and also not being able to drink legally in college.

          • Bluejay

            I also had a good experience iwth grade skipping. My parents started me early in kindergarten (started when I was 4 and turned 5 in October, after the cutoff but I tested in) and then put me in a gifted and talented school until 5th grade. Then we moved across the country, to a state where 6th grade was considered elementary school and junior high started at 7th, but because I was already expecting to go to junior high and I tested at (higher than) the 7th grade level, they let me skip 6th. So I was one of those people who graduated from high school at 16. Honestly, it never affected my social development one bit. Maybe if I would have been skipping grades at the same school, instead of moving to a new one where I didn’t know anyone anyway, it would have made a difference. But it was nothing but an advantage for me, not least because I had a rough situation growing up and it enabled to get me out earlier, but also because in my early 30s I’m way ahead of other people my age, professionally speaking (perhaps in part due to the recession – I shudder thinking about what if I’d graduated law school 2 years later). I guess I couldn’t drink legally in college either, but somehow, that never presented an obstacle.

            Anyway, don’t write off skipping grades. Also, super fun thing about the gifted and talented testing is, I know my IQ. Not that I have ever told anyone, but it’s a fun bit of information that most of us don’t know about ourselves.

          • nb

            Skipping 8th grade was great. It cut that torturous junior high time in half, I was also super bored in 7th grade, and I loved my high school.

      • Merabella

        I was in TIP and in my “gifted program” in elementary as well. I agree with all of your comments. I think that working on study skills is important. I had the same problems with Calculus once I got there I didn’t really know what to do because everything had always been so easy. I think that the TIP program was a great way to give me something to look forward to and challenge me. Also my mom did a great job at supplementing what I was learning in school with fun trips – like going to the museum to see Egyptian Art when we were talking about Egypt in Social Studies. I think things like this gave me a broader view on what was going on.

        Check out Kumon Centers or thing like that in the area. They aren’t “homework” after school programs, they give them more stuff to do and work on skills.

        • Gail the Goldfish

          I TA’d for TIP classes one summer and recommend it (though it’s seriously pricey, which is why I never did it as a kid). There are standard classes, but then they have a lot of really fun college-type classes. While the classes are interesting, I think part of the reason it was so good was it gave the kids a chance to be around other really smart kids. I remember middle school being a very isolating time for me because I went to a small private school and there just weren’t a lot of (for lack of a better word) nerd types.

          My school didn’t have gifted classes in middle school, but AP classes in highschool were so, so nice.

      • Ellie

        Second all this as well.
        I coasted through elementary and middle school. The first thing I ever had trouble with was CTY. I finally felt challenged, behind, and like things didn’t make sense to me that other people understood. I also took classes that ended up being very helpful for high school courses- I did an Animal Science program and subsequently crushed freshman Bio- and likely would have done well in AP bio as well if my school had offered it.
        I coasted through college as well, and the “I had zero study skills and plenty of attitude since I had coasted unchallenged for so long” was a real issue when I hit 1L at a top 20 law school.
        I am still friends with people I met at CTY. It was an amazing experience.
        As a side note, coming from a very rural area, it was the first time I had been exposed to real diversity as well– I would not be surprised if it were the first opportunity I had to work with any Asian-Americans, so if you are in a similar area, that’s another huge benefit!

        • Ellie

          Will add: my fiancé took college courses after school in high school and I believe middle school, at the local community school. He was so bored in his regular courses that he spent his match class memorizing pi to the umpteenth digit. Something else to consider.

    • nona

      Are there any local universities that do PSEO programs (post secondary enrollment options) – basically, high school kids taking college level courses that count for both high school and college. I didn’t do it personally, but my rural undergrad did it a lot with the local high schools, so a few of my classmates were actually 2 years younger, on account of having had half of the college credits taken as a high school student.

    • anon

      I had an up-and-down experience with gifted & talented education. When I was in third grade, my teacher was an absolute gem. She came up with an entire separate lesson plan of assignments for me that followed the same theme as what the rest of the kids were doing (more advanced books on similar themes, extra history assignments, etc.). I also started switching classes to take math with the older kids. My next teachers were not nearly as helpful, so I ended up changing schools. I had a bit of an up-and-down process after that until I got into high school and was able to take only AP classes. I would definitely recommend summer programs for intellectually curious students and encouraging your daughter to read more advanced material at home. My parents were not the sort to home school me, so we just had to make it work!

    • eek

      I tested in 2nd grade but I didn’t get overly involved in the gifted program because we moved and then in the rest of elementary school, it was just special meetings once a week. In middle school, it was pretty much Odyssey of the Minds (which I wasn’t really interested in). By high school it was fairly nonexistent – it was replaced by AP classes, Governor’s School, and coop classes w/ local colleges. I suppose one of the better things was being in classes with students that had similar abilities to me and that challenged the way I think.

    • Also in Academia

      I was. We did units on topics of our own choosing, and we designed our own learning projects based on Bloom’s taxonomy. Surprisingly helpful for someone who ended up in academia! Looking back, what was most helpful for me was the chance to not be in my regular classroom and to get some feeling of control/engagement in my own education.

      Also, I got through school largely by having a book with me at all times, to read when I finished my regular work. I have no idea if teachers still let you do this, but I would have been miserable otherwise.

      My parents also kept a lot of workbook-type things around — everything from word hunts to math workbooks. They can be found at “teacher stores.” I rebelled when they tried to make me do extra homework (one of their less-inspired ideas), but if the books were just there then I would get into them and do the activities.

      I also went to a very small school, and there were not very many electives as I got older. I somehow wangled an extra period in the gifted classroom in junior high, doing “independent study.” I don’t remember anything that I accomplished academically, but I got to hang out with some of the older gifted students and that socialization was priceless. Don’t underestimate the benefits of your child just getting to spend time with other smart kids — my parents really thought I was wasting my time (hence the extra homework they attempted to assign) but looking back it was really quite valuable for me in a way I couldn’t articulate to them at the time.

      • anon

        I’ll go for a cautionary tale. I was enrolled in a full-time gifted program until fifth grade that was totally fabulous: think individualized education plans, pre-teen Shakespeare productions, etc. After fifth grade, though, my city’s underfunded school system abruptly scaled back gifted education, and stopped it entirely in high school. I dropped out in tenth grade because I…was…so…bored. I ended up finishing high school through correspondence school and graduated from college at 19, so it all ended well enough, despite causing my parents untold amounts of heartache, BUT:

        -I have no study skills. I never needed to, and by the time it might have been nice (law school), it seemed like it was just too late to learn that.

        -I also don’t know any science or math. The liberal arts are delightfully fudge-able for a verbal child who read a lot, but now I regret the gaping holes in my education.

        The take-away from this is that I’m just not sure that a summer or after-school program–as suggested by some other commenters–is enough. Looking back, I sincerely regret that I didn’t take my parents up on the offer of private school they made when I was twelve (I couldn’t bear to be separated from my friends, none of whom I speak to now). Keep her challenged, however you can do it!

    • karenpadi

      We had a full-on IB program (like an AP program). I “qualified” for every subject but I only did IB-level French, Math, and Chem (the only advanced chem course was IB-level) in high school. I declined IB-level English, Biology, Physics, and History (oh, they were mad at me–they needed numbers).

      I really don’t regret it. I was able to take a wider variety of courses than my “full-IB” friends and I didn’t have to study as hard. The GPA system at my school didn’t give “extra credit” for IB coursework (e.g., 4.25/4.00 for an A, 4.00/4.00 for a B). This allowed me to more easily be valedictorian (and qualify for major scholarships). I still got in to an Ivy-League school (didn’t go, too many scholarships at other schools). I didn’t feel like I had “missed out” on being able to skip college courses because, in engineering majors, calculus, chem, and physics are bonding experiences.

      My advice, look at how GPA is structured. If there’s no “extra credit” for taking those courses, don’t be all gung-ho about “gifted” program to maximize eligibility for scholarships.

      • a.

        Just FYI, karenpadi, the biggest thing college admissions counselors look for in applicants is the rigor of their coursework–not their GPA. This is a huge myth that admissions counselors would really, really like busted. I’m glad your academic plan worked for you, and got you where you wanted to be, but it is absolutely not what I would have advised one of my students to do.

        High schools send secondary school reports (which are basically a description of all the classes available, how GPAs are calculated, etc.), and counselors evaluate the student against the hypothetical most challenging load available. And most of ’em recalculate GPAs to a uniform scale anyway, since high schools all do things differently. So to the OP, in addition to whatever extra programs your daughter does (I’ve heard good things about Duke’s TIP, but I’d check with your local college too), she absolutely needs to take the most challenging courseload she’ll do well in. Her GPA will take care of itself.

        • flowery anon

          Eh. I think if this allows you to take “a wider variety of courses,” as karenpadi said it did, then I think it’s a perfectly fine call if it’s what the student wants to do.

          In my math/science high school, there was an extremely rigorous 4-course elective sequence in a very specific area of science. These were “the hardest” classes and the “most serious” and “best” students took them (and we were told that colleges knew about the rigor of this sequence). After much thought, I decided not to take them and instead pursue other academic electives that interested me more, and that would allow me much more of a life (these courses were notorious for requiring TONS of reading and memorization).

          Long story short, when I got into Harvard (and everywhere else I applied), my peers were shocked because they’d written off my chances when I opted out of “the most challenges courses” halfway through sophomore year.

          Taking some but not all the APs, IBs, or whatever could be viewed as slacking. But to the extent it enables a student to pursue more unique subjects and interests, that can go a long way in providing excellent fodder for essays, interviews, etc. Someone who’s won a prize at a state or national science fair and has a 4.0 with half IBs/half regular courses will trump someone who has a 4.0 with all IBs but more run-of-the-mill accomplishments – even if what you say about literally adjusting that GPA (say, to a 4.5) is true.

    • TCFKAG

      I was the product of gifted-ed from 1-8 and then a high school that had many AP offerings as well as Honors offerings. I think gifted was a blessing for me, though I know tracking is a controversial topic in the education community. But without it I’m not sure I would have survived in public school. I also took a couple college level courses in high school.

      But what was also helpful, honestly, was that my parents helped me find other outlets for my crazy, driven focus. So I swam and in the summer went to swim camp and other sports camps and hiking camp etc. They didn’t make it all about academia. (Now, I’m not saying everyone has to be an athlete…but just because someone is smart, doesn’t mean its the only way their focus and drive can benefit them.) Anyway, just a thought.

      • Merabella

        I totally agree with this. Find things that are challenging to her outside of academics. It can be dance, or sports, or whatever, but it will teach your daughter that she isn’t perfect at everything, which will help later when something challenging comes along.

      • Nonny

        This is similar to my own experience. I did gifted work all the way through elementary school (including being in mixed-grade classes and doing the work for the higher grade – e.g. when I was in grade 2 I was in a 2/3 split class and did work with the grade 3 students), and did Honours and AP work in high school. I would have been bored silly in an ordinary class. But what was especially valuable for me was all the extracurricular stuff I did, which gave me valuable lessons about not *always* being the best at everything. I wasn’t sporty, but did lots of dance, music and Girl Guides – the latter was especially valuable in terms of teaching me to be a team player, which I wasn’t particularly good at in a school “group project” context.

      • Sconnie

        I had almost the exact same experience – down to the things about public school and getting really into swimming – and I would second this approach big time.

        I started writing more on the topic, but it quickly started rambling. To summarize, there is a lot to be said for helping your child develop into a well-rounded adult with a wide variety of interests and abilities.

      • a.

        This this this. Your daughter can absolutely explore after-school or summer academic programs, but IMHO, it would be way more valuable for her to pursue something she genuinely cares about. Could be art, could be running, could be, IDK, pottery or organic farming or the viola.

      • EC MD

        My parents pushed us to play sports, not because we were so great at it, but because we WERENT so great at it. I rode the bench quite a bit on softball teams, was truly terrible at diving when I tried it, but my parents kept encouraging. I can remember complaining about struggling with softball, and my dad said to me “you realize that how you feel on the softball field is how most of the kids feel in school? It’s okay to be average at something.”

        I went to a magnet high school where academics were pushed and there were a ton of bright, college bound kids. While it was probably over-competitive at times, it was a great environment for me because we all pushed each other. A small group of us did geometry as 8th graders (imagine 12 dorky eighth graders and one fabulous math teacher doing high school math together for 2 years. Heaven) so I started in algebra II as a freshman. It was tough socially as I was a nerdy little freshman and their were slacker seniors in there too, but that kind of social navigation was important to learn too.

        My husband grew up gifted in a small town. He started kindergarden early and felt socially and physically behind all the other kids for most of his schooling. I’d be very hesitant to advocate moving kids up grades for that reason. He was still usually the smartest kid in the class, and nerdy and small and that was tough on him.

      • LLBMBA

        I agree with this. I was in a gifted prgogram grades 5 to 8 (and then switched to a private school where it wasn’t offered). The best thing my elementary teacher did for us was push us outside our comfort zones. Not all of us were terribly socially well adjusted, and we did a lot of improv/public speaking, which I think taught us that just ecause we wre smart didn’t mean we were going to be good at eerything right away and that we could learn new things outside f an academic context. I have fond memories of it.

    • HM

      I loved my G&T program in elementary and middle school. At my middle school, we had G&T English and history class. As we could get through the grade-level required material quickly as a group, it left about 1/2 of our time for more hands-on, creative engagement with the lesson. I’m completely failing at remembering any specifics, but I know that I enjoyed those classes the most.

      My school system also offered a G&T summer camp program that was AWESOME. It was either 4 or 6 weeks long (can’t remember) and one half was humanities focused, the other, science and math.

      I ended up going to a private prep school for high school, but most of my G&T public school classmates entered the IB program for 9-12 grade.

      • HM

        sorry, I misread the OP. You were looking for external resources.

        I think encouraging her academic pursuits in school is key, but sign her up for music lessons, art classes, science camps, etc. “Learning” doesn’t have to just take place in the classroom.

        Also, look into having your daughter tutor younger students. I started tutoring and teaching Sunday School as a 12 year old. I’ve found the best way to become engaged in learning as a process is to become a teacher.

        • SpaceMountain

          Looking for any ideas, really. Thanks so much to everyone for all these great comments. Lots to think about! I don’t think skipping would be good for her, in the throes of the middle-school girl thing (plus she has some good friends in her grade), but I love the idea of online classes and summer programs. I wish her school was a little more on the ball, but every time I’ve asked, they’ve told me that, essentially, all the children are above average. Now that I have her crazy-high SAT scores, maybe I can convince them that she really doesn’t need to read 6th-grade level books any more.

          • Migraine Sufferer

            And, by the way, your school might need to be informed that your daughter is entitled to a “Free Appropriate Public Education.”

          • KLG

            I’m the daughter of a former guidance counselor and one thing she has told me with my stepdaughter is that you HAVE to advocate for your child because the school is overwhelmed and more likely to be dealing with problems. Not saying being a jerk to anyone but she recommends being polite and persistent. She let me know that in our state they technically couldn’t keep my stepdaughter out of advanced classes, etc. even if there are “rules” about those types of things so definitely use her test scores to your advantage and let them know that 6th grade reading isn’t cutting it. (We have the opposite problem with my stepdaughter, her test scores are average but she is getting straight A’s in regular class without even trying which makes me concerned for when she gets to high school/college and has been coasting along thinking she is brilliant).

    • onehsancare

      I did as much accelerated and AP as my school provided, which, back in the dark ages, wasn’t very much. I was never at all challenged in school, which taught me to coast, be lazy, and expect to excel with no effort. Not good training.

      I also skipped from the middle of first to the middle of second grade, which taught me other bad lessons. Kontraktor asks “what is the difference really between 2nd/3rd/4th grade?” The difference between the already-smallest “second-grader” and the rest of her third-grade classmates in PE is immense, in terms of size and skill. I was an adult before I realized I wasn’t an unathletic klutz–I’d just been competing against bigger, more skilled kids for so long, I’d been trained to believe I was.

      I was socializing with kids who were ahead of me developmentally, so I always felt a little behind socially. Already inherently a little nerdy, I fell down to the lowest social rung. Not able to date or drive when my friends did was hard. Going 3,000 miles away to college at 17 was a stretch I’m glad I made now, but boy, howdy, I wouldn’t be sending my 17 year-old-daughter away to college with 22-year-old men now, knowing what I know now!

      If you can get supplemental programs, get them. Please think long and hard about skipping, though.

    • MissJackson

      I was. The Gifted program at my school was somewhat of a joke — it was mostly focused on extra-curricular stuff (why the gifted kids got access to the cool theater stuff, I’ll never understand, but it was fun!)

      However, in my state (PA), if you’re labeled as Gifted, you get some important perks — most notably, the ability to write your own “plan” (there was some special term for this, but it’s been nearly 2 decades so I can’t remember). The most notable thing that my parents got to specify was that I could take unlimited college days starting my sophomore year (I believe that we were limited to 2 absences per year for college visits, and I needed way more). I also took some college courses my senior year instead of classes at my high school (and got high school ‘credit’), which wasn’t allowed for the normal kids, but my parents wrote it into my “plan”.

      I will echo what others have mentioned about not being challenged enough. Include me as someone who never really learned how to study. The first time I was really academically challenged in my life was a 300 level math class in college. It was like I fell off of a cliff one day — I suddenly couldn’t understand anything, and I had zero skills in place to deal with it. Not a fun time. (I kept from being bored in hs by joining every club and organization known to man, playing two instruments, singing, playing a varsity sport — badly, and doing theater. It was loads of fun and challenging, but not in the academic sense.)

    • Laura

      I was tested for early admission to kindergarten (age 4), tested again in 5th grad (the Woodc*ck Johnson test – no lie that’s the name of it) and eventually skipped the 8th grade (technically moved into the 8th grade mid-year).

      My school system was surprisingly supportive of my education, including: allowing me to test out of grade level concepts (all of 6-8th grade English courses), counting summer learning that I did as part of my overall education (at a local liberal arts college), allowing me to take high school classes as a middle schooler (I took a foreign language my 6th grade year – at the high school, in a high school class and then foreign language and computer programming in the year that was my 7th/8th grade year), and allowing me to work individually on upper level curriculae for different subjects. All of these things were the result of the IEP (Individual Education Plan) that I received as a result of the testing prior to kindergarten and at age 9.

      All in all, I look back and realize I had an amazing education for the smallish town we lived in, due largely to my mother’s commitment to seeing it through but also to the very accomodating school district. I also realize I was very fortunate in that I was accepted socially, even as a 10 year old in classes with 16 and 18 year olds, and I never really noticed/realized how much younger I was than my perceived peers. I think maintaining social normalcy is the most critical piece of being accelerated academically, as you can teeter on putting too much pressure on yourself or just withdrawing from your peers if a regular kids’ social/active life isn’t maintained.

      If you have any questions: tnonymousme@gmail.com

    • NOLA

      I did the gifted program in elementary school. When I was in middle school/high school, there was a program for us at two local universities. We didn’t take regular classes but we got to take some fun classes with regular university professors. I think it was once a week or once every two weeks. The most memorable one was an anthropology class. We got to learn about bones and how they are identified and we had a kind of Rosetta stone project. It got us used to being on a college campus and working with college professors and it was a lot of fun. We only had AP English and math at my public school was abysmal. It was fun to work with other kids who thought like me – my school was not challenging at all and I didn’t really have to study until college. I have to say that it wasn’t until I went to a therapist in college (who specialized in gifted adolescents) that I really understand that I was completely normal for people like me.

    • anony

      I actually had a conversation about this yesterday. I went to college through a gifted program at 14 and would advise against having your daughter skip grades. While I was ready for the class work, I was not on the same level socially and emotionally as my peers. I feel like I lost out on a chunk of my childhood by being made into an adult quicker.

    • LadyEnginerd

      You really really need to get a read on whether the middle school AND the high school will work together to help your daughter with a program of study that will challenge her until college. Only having the middle school on board won’t cut it, because she might end up needing resources at the high school early, or the high school might be much, much less friendly than her current school. Sadly, that was my experience.

      I took the SATs and did CTY distance learning math, which then led to me being accelerated in two subjects starting around middle school. Unfortunately my educational plan then became a bone of contention in my school district and it was absolutely awful as adults played politics about me over my head. My science teacher “lost” my science fair application; the high school was angry that I was going to have too many classes where the GPA was calculated out of 5 points instead of 4 (and thus would automatically be at the top of the class which wouldn’t be “fair”), etc. It was awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Middle school and high school are hard enough socially without the grownups also out to get you.

      My school district and especially the high school was so obstructionist that I left and went to one of “those” boarding schools for high school (with the help of significant financial aid). I’ll decline to say which one – think Andover/Exeter. They had all the resources I needed and I was no longer “gifted” but instead normal. I think I’d have turned out very very different if I had been singled out as the freak smart kid throughout high school instead of just one of many kids who were all smart in different ways.

    • Alanna of Trebond

      I seem to be late to this discussion (haha trying to study for the bar!), but would like to chime in. I was in gifted schools from 3rd grade onwards, and attended a science and tech magnet school for high school. Amazing experiences, and my worst years of school were in middle school where I had to mix with non-gifted program kids in my electives (plus it was middle school).

      When I was 12, I attended the Summer Enrichment Program at UVA, which I liked very much. It was kind of a summer camp for young nerds, which I liked a lot. I also did MathCounts and Science Olympiad at that age. I have heard good things about CTY.

      If you are able, I would consider her having attend a very good high school if your school does not have these resources. I loved my high school, which is a public school and offers math up to Differential Equations and dozens of AP courses (most languages, Euro, US History, English, English lit, etc.). If I had to change anything, judging from my classmates at my alma mater, I would possibly choose a very good prep school such as Exeter or Andover where the students also learn to write very well.

    • New around here

      I agree with so much of what’s been said here. I was identified gifted in kindergarten and in GT programs (such as they were, in my very small school district) all the way through. In elementary, this meant a one-hour-once-weekly pull-out program K-4, a “mini-magnet” 5th grade program, and accelerated course placement 6-12 — so perhaps a similar set of in-school options as your district is offering your daughter.

      I heartily second all the comments to the effect that single most important thing you can do is to teach her study skills and discipline. My parents looked at my report card, saw that I was doing well, and didn’t notice that I really was pretty lazy. Sadly, this laziness carried all the way through college, law school, and a degree overseas — and still plagues me at work.

      A few other thoughts:

      I think that gifted kids thrive best when they’re allowed to develop different peer groups appropriate to different parts of their lives — e.g., I was super-accelerated in math and science, and so ended up perfectly comfortable as an 8th grader with the high school juniors/seniors. I also had same-age social friendships — but they weren’t “enough,” and had I only been only allowed to be friends with kids my age, I would have been pretty isolated in class. (Of course you should pay attention to whether she’s actually comfortable with the older kids, as all sorts of weird pressures could develop with a big age difference. But the age difference itself shouldn’t be a red flag.)

      Similarly, try to make sure she has one thing that’s not-at-all-school-related to do, as it may be easiest for her to develop those same-age friendships a little separate from the school environment. Swim club, gymnastics lessons, soccer, horseback riding, painting classes, etc. – whatever sounds like fun to her.

      But both those things said, really do consider seeking out one or more of the gifted enrichment summer programs. Even if she doesn’t continue the friendships after the program ends, she’ll benefit from meeting other kids her same age who have the same interests/abilities as she does.

      Pay attention to her stress level — gifted girls so often become the perfectionist type that she could be internalizing all sorts of pressures, particularly (as others have said) when she gets to the schoolwork that challenges her. If she does get overly stressed, don’t jump right to what my parents did and try to pull her out of the environment — rather, help her learn to manage herself (everything from making to-do lists to making time for recreation is a learned skill). This is likely to be harder for her than other kids, because the “academically average” kids are likely to learn it much sooner in school and all at roughly the same time (so she’s struggling alone, while they figured it out together).

      Most importantly, remember that the best way to figure out what your daughter’s interested in is to ask her! She’s old enough to be part of making choices about what resources she wants/needs, and I might even suggest inviting her to the meeting with her principal would be a great way to start including her.

      And I’d also encourage you to do a little poking into the research into how gifted kids’ brains develop and into listservs/support groups for parents of gifted kids. In fact, if you happen to find one near-ish you, they might be able to point you to lots of resources that you otherwise wouldn’t realize existed!

    • zora

      Hope I’m not too late with this, but I was in GT programs at really really good schools, and for me what was most awesome about my teachers/classes was when we did non-traditional projects, things that required more creative thinking, or were more interdisciplinary. Like, instead of just reading a book and writing a book report several times a year, one class had us in small groups come up with different ways to teach the class about the book we had read, like write a short play based on the book. Or, we did one where we scripted an episode of a TV talk show, with the host interviewing the main character of the book. There were other examples, but i can’t think of any. The other big thing about GT in school for me, was that i spent most of my time with other nerdy/dorky kids, so I think that helped me with my self-confidence and being happy being smart and nerdy and not worrying so much about being ‘popular’ or not being ‘pretty’ etc.

      So, I don’t know if you can suggest those kinds of things to the school, but if there’s a way to do those things with your daughter. Or have her do kind of independent study projects, like she can ask her teacher if she can do some cool project to present something in lieu of writing a paper.

      And then, I would second the suggestions of outside activities. My favorite was working with youth/children’s theater companies, because we got to be part of all aspects of producing shows, including set building and lighting, and costumes and makeup and general logistics and coordination of a show including marketing, box office, etc, and soft skills like teamwork and leadership and communication.

    • w. coast

      yes. the most helpful was that I got to get out of my regular classroom for 1.5 days every week and be with other “talented and gifted” kids. was dying of boredom in my regular classes. the TAG classes were only marginally better, but the other kids were sharp and also a better social fit.

    • Gifted Kid!

      I’m really sad to see that people didn’t find the gifted programs at their schools helpful. I was in the gifted program in elementary and middle school (didn’t exist in high school, just AP classes), and I absolutely loved it. Also, one of my parents is a gifted education teacher, and like the nerd that I am, I read a bunch of the literature laying around my house about the philosophy behind gifted classes and the psychology of gifted children. I really encourage you to find some books about that and read them OBJECTIVELY. Do not be intimidated by your daughter! She’s just a little girl. She’s smart, she’s not a freak, and you’re not in over your head. You’re her mom.

      In elementary and middle school, my programs were mostly about exploring ideas outside of tradition school subjects. We chose a topic each semester for independent study, and at the end of the term we had to turn in a written report as well as give a presentation to the class on our topic. Topic could be ANYTHING, but you had to research (in 3rd grade, I was better at using a library than a lot of college kids are now, sadly), and you had to have at least 20 sources including 10 that were not books. I think this was really helpful to mitigate the “coasting” problem a lot gifted kids have with school. Notice I said mitigate – not solve. I still coasted quite a bit in my normal classes, but I worked my butt off on those projects. This is something you could implement at home, if the school doesn’t provide an appropriate forum.

      As a class, we also worked on some overarching idea every semester. One time it was planning a mission to Mars -what would you need? what could go wrong? how would you fix it? Write a journal about your life on Mars. One time it was computers (in the 90s when they weren’t ubiquitous) – we learned boolean logic and played around with a bunch of basic programming. One time it was flight – why do hot air balloons float? why do planes fly? How about birds? Optimize a flying machine using xyz materials.

      Also, in my state (maybe nationwide?) there was a gifted and talented “game” that a ton of schools learned, and then we’d all get together and compete once a year. The game changed each year. Sometimes it was math-based (think like the 24 game), sometimes it was word-based, but it was almost always some kind of elaborate puzzle with simple rules that you had to figure out on the fly. It was AWESOME. I bet there’s something like that for home schoolers that you might be able to get your daughter into if she’s interested.

      This is what gifted classes are supposed to do. They’re supposed to give kids an outlet to apply concepts outside of the box and test their creativity and help them discover new skills. But you don’t need a gifted class to do that… what does your daughter like? If she likes science, encourage her to join a robotics club. If she likes writing stories, encourage her to join Power of the Pen. If things like that aren’t available, ask if a teacher who teaches your daughter’s favorite subject would mind mentoring her through some kind of special project. The most important thing is that she find something that allows her to keep working and experimenting and learning new skills.

      As for grade-skipping… I skipped an early elementary school grade, and it was a total non-issue. I’m not sure that’s a good idea in middle school for social reasons, but that’s a “know your daughter” kind of thing. Ask her if that’s something she thinks would be OK. Advocate for her and foot-stomp around the principal’s office to get her accelerated if she’s willing, but if she adamantly wants to stay with her friends, making her miserable isn’t worth her learning calc a couple years early.

    • Niktaw

      I cannot cite my own experience (did not grow up in the States) but my pre-teen son is gifted so my input as his “manager and agent” may be useful.
      It all depends on the area where you live. We are fortunate to live in a school district that offers excellent gifted programs that will meet his needs throughout high school. I especially appreciate that he is virtually guaranteed to have strong peers (as opposed to individual development plan) so he will not be the odd one in a class of “normal kids”.
      We also enrolled him in CTY Talent Search early on and he has attended their commuter summer camp every year. He liked the programs – some better than others. Next year he’ll do a residential program. Yes, they are expensive, but totally worth the money especially for an isolated gifted kid. CTY provides financial aid, so do not let the cost deter you.
      He also has several extracurricular activities, though most are pretty nerdy. At least one sport is a must.
      You should look into Governor’s school in your state and also summer programs offered by colleges located in your area.
      Lastly, google “Hoagies Gifted” and “Davidson Gifted” – these are both good resources for your situation. Davidson has info on gifted policies in all states and probably all school districts. There are also message boards.

      • K...in transition

        add me to the mix… tested at a 5th grade reading level at age 4. Skipped 1st grade. (I’m loving how many of us here tested advanced and wonder if that’s made us pre-destined to be the achieving chicks we are). My advice? Make sure she’s challenged in ways that force her to learn to focus, to study, and to be in the middle of the pack in some way. Otherwise, she’ll fail later when she can’t coast by and hasn’t a clue how to prepare for exams or she’ll be so used to being the top that she won’t know how to handle it in situations where she isn’t!

      • Migraine Sufferer

        You could try reading about the unschooling movement. Your daughter might be a good candidate for this.

    • SF Bay Associate

      I was, sort of. Public school the whole way. I just deleted the tome of my life story, but basically… don’t count on public schools to continuously provide funding for gifted programs, and don’t count on administrators to work with you. I almost skipped two grades, but the district pushed back because it would have been inconvenient for the district and my parents’ weak resolve collapsed. While at the normal grade level for my age, gifted funding got cut out from under me twice, dropping me in with the general population… which sounds horrible and elitist, but yeah. There were several grades where I learned practically nothing. Gifted programs are the first things to get cut, especially these days with No Child Left Behind. They need to worry about the learning disabled/non- reading/math proficient kids far more than they will worry about your bright daughter. When I was in a fully-funded gifted program with a qualified teacher, it was wonderful, but when it was regular school, it was hell. I hate to ask, but is there any way you can change her school? My middle school, and its lack of a gifted program, was a complete waste of three years of my life.

      I finally ended up at a super academic high school (“you’re only taking 4 APs this semester??”) and realized how behind I was from elementary and middle school failure. Brainpower doesn’t get you that far when that’s all you have and everyone else is as smart as you, or smarter, and better educated. The upside of that is I had to work my a$$ off to catch up to the private school kids, and that drive still serves me well.

      I agree with what everyone else has said – keep her brain fed and curious. Send her to summer schools/after school programs where she can build rockets or program a game or write music or learn to read hieroglyphics. Take her to museums to speak with the researchers. And I strongly, strongly agree that she needs to be in some kind of sport year round, whether it’s ballet or basketball or crew or karate – she needs to do something she’s not good at. Someone below talked about how gifted girls can end up as perfectionists who refuse to do anything they’re not good at. Hi, that’s me, and I am in therapy to get over it.

      • Anonymous

        So many of the answers are about academics and college. I was in gifted. If you read about gifted children, you will learn that the emotional needs are very important. Gifted children have the intellectual capacity to understand the news but lack the maturity to process it. Think about how a bright twelve-year-old is processing news of the recession as compared to her peers. Now think about how she has no adult perspective. That’s it.

    • Crossfit

      Went to gifted, graduated at 15, finished law school at 22 -> to be honest the best thing about gifted are the people you meet. Your daughter could benefit from being amongst gifted women – out of the 8 I went to school with everyone but me has or is pursuing a masters degree (I went to law school again haha).

    • InfoGeek

      Very very late to this discussion (thanks to others for mentioning on today’s pages), but here are some comments/ideas.

      1. She’s still the same kid she was before you had the score. Make sure she knows that this didn’t change the way you think about her.

      2. She’s old enough to be making some of her own decisions about schooling/academics, but she may need your help to know what’s out there. She may be used to not being challenged and expect it. Beware of “Imposter Syndrome” where she thinks all smart kids “get” things instantly and that if she has to work or study then she’s not smart. As she gets older, she will need to learn to advocate for herself. If you ask for it, you will be considered the “pushy parent” or a “helicopter parent”. If she asks for it, they *may* be more inclined to let her do it.

      3. The Hoagies Gifted Page is the best source on the internet for finding out anything about giftedness. They have scholarly research, books kids like, ways to pursue certain interests, links to various e-mail groups, etc. http://www.hoagiesgifted.com/ They also have a facebook page where people post questions and others answer them.

      4. If she’s interested in math at all, then the best place to learn math right now is Art of Problem Solving (www.artofproblemsolving.com). The top math students in the world hang out there. They sell books and offer courses, but there are forums and online games, too. (Disclaimer: My daughter is a grader for this site.)

      5. Camps made a huge difference for my daughter. She started with WCATY in elementary. That was probably the first place she met other kids who were really like her. She’s also attended GERI (at Purdue). However, she’s gotten as much out of some non-gifted summer things, like Concordia Language Villages. She also loved MathCamp (where you don’t have to prove you’re gifted, but you do have to do well on the admissions test).

      6. It’s not the end of the world to take classes with kids who are older. As a high school freshman, my daughter took only 1.5 classes with other freshmen (the .5 is because one semester was freshmen and the other semester was a mixed grade class). It all worked out. It let her do a wider variety of curriculum in high school and still be challenged.

      7. There are tons of middle school academic contests that are a blast. Some are group and others are individual. Some have a single short competition and others have a series of contests.

      I’ve seen recommendations for the following contests for gifted middle schoolers: Odyssey of the Mind, MathCounts, AMC-8 (or AMC-10 or AMC-12 if they’re good enough), Purple Comet, MOEMS, First Robotics League, Spelling Bee, Geography Bee, National History Day, Science Fair, Destination Imagination, Future City, Science Olympiad, Young Astronauts, Stock Market Game, Knowledge Master Open, Quiz Bowl, Vex Robotics, Math Masters, Future Problem Solving, ECyberMission, Abacus International Math Challenge, NaNoWriMo (competing with self against calendar), DAR Essay, and Philosophy Slam. I think that middle schoolers can also start studying with the USA Computing Olympiad, but I’m not sure if they can compete.

      Help her decide what her interests are (even if they’re just interests right now) and help her pursue entry into one or more of these. You’ll probably have to work with the school and may need to offer to pay entry fees. In many cases, you’ll be benefitting students beyond your own.

      8. Just because she has a college-admissions ready SAT score doesn’t mean she’s ready for college (on the other hand, she wouldn’t be the youngest student I know to take a college class). She almost certainly isn’t ready to move away to sleep-away college, but she may or may not be ready for the topics covered or the speed of a college class. Lots of literature completely appropriate for a college student is not appropriate for a 12 year old. The same thing can happen in psychology and even the way some history is covered.

      9. People mentioned Johns Hopkins CTY and Duke’s TIP, but the other large talent search group is Northwestern’s CTD. All 3 offer different things (classes and camps), but all will accept your child (maybe with a lower priority than students who tested with them) if you send them the scores.

      • SpaceMountain

        I’m still checking here — so many great suggestions. Thanks for the time you took to write this; it’s all so helpful.

        • InfoGeek

          Glad you found it useful.

          Sometimes the scores are shocking because they force us to open our eyes. :-)

          By the way, if she scored over 700 on the CR or math section of the SAT (before she turns 13), then she qualified for Johns Hopkins’ SET (study of exceptional talent). I don’t know that you get much out of it, but it might be worth sending the scores to them if she met the criteria. AND, she can still be totally amazing and not qualify for SET. :-)

          If she does foreign language, then there are foreign language contests that include middle schoolers, too. The one I’m familiar with is Grand Concours for French. However, I think there are some for Spanish, German, and Latin, too.

  7. momentsofabsurdity

    Can we please discuss how the college-aged intern I’m supervising today sent me a text this morning that read:

    “Yo, imma be about 1/2 hr late today, sry!”

    I mean, I know I’m still a “young person” but I feel all old and crochety and want to shake my cane at him.

      • Herbie

        I can’t help but think of your Western counterpart, Kanye East.

        Yo, momentsofabsurdity, I’m really happy for you. Imma let you finish, but your intern had one of the best texts of all time. One of the best texts of all time!”

    • LR

      I’m convinced that the youth of today (and at 27, I’m referring to people only a couple years younger than me) are substantially more terrible at communicating than even my generation. I HATE things like “imma”, and I’m fairly certain that 2/3 of the population does not understand when to use “have” versus “of”. It boggles my mind just how awful written communication has become. And that is why I love this site.

      • Tired Squared

        I’m 24, and I feel the same way — my middle/high school students often say “I should of” instead of “I should have.” And they actually write “LOL” (and worse!) into essays. Very disturbing.

        • Tired Squared

          Yep. And they aren’t quoting someone, like “And then she said, ‘LOL!’ ”

          They are actually writing things like: “And IMHO it was the funniest book LOL and like so much better than that ratchet Hunger Games.”

          (Ratchet is slang too. It hurts me)

        • Herbie

          I’ve seen “could of” and “should of” on local news websites, and every time it makes a tiny piece of my heart die.

    • Godzilla

      Ha. My intern texted me in one morning asking if he needed to wear a tie to work that day. It made me feel odd, to say the least, but it’s better than not asking/informing!

    • zora

      The peeps in our dating-discussion FB group already know that: I. Hate. Texting.

      And I am only 30, so i feel so grouchy being all get-off-my-lawn at my age, but srsly: I hate it.

      • Merriweather

        Back the fire-truck up. There’s a dating discussion FB group for ‘ r e t t e s? How do I get in? Please can I get in?

        • karenpadi

          It’s called “Dipping Toes Into the Dating Pool”. K in Transition is the gate-keeper. I think you just find the group on FB and send a request to join.

        • zora

          oh yeah! K (in transition) set it up!! I think you can request to join here, and then K can ‘approve’ you:
          http://www.facebook.com/groups/358635250819989/

          If that doesn’t work, let me know and I’ll try to figure out how to do it.
          And, anyone else interested should join, too! We have had some very fun and very useful conversations, from different perspectives on online dating, and on just dating in general.

          • Herbie

            Does it show on your profile that you’re a member of the group? I’m interested but frankly don’t want some person I went to high school with and haven’t spoken to in 10 years seeing that I just joined a dating group.

      • NOLA

        If it hadn’t been for the big disaster (Katrina), I would probably be anti-texting, too. But it’s the way all of my friends communicate and it works for us, even my friend who is in her late 70s. It’s also the reason why I have a great relationship with my nephews. If I didn’t text, I’d never hear from them.

        • zora

          Maybe I should clarify: i like the technology of texting, and I have a few friends that I use it with a lot.

          But I HATE how common texting etiquette has evolved and is now eroding ALL communication and writing and grammar of all kinds!! Like this example, of people thinking you can use text slang to talk to your BOSS!? I mean, some bosses prefer texting, but then you still write in that you will be late in a complete sentence!! Cause that’s yer Boss, Yo! Or, how bad texting has lead to general all-over bad communicating in dating, since apparently it is now acceptable to only communicate by text and in incomplete sentences and bad spelling…. ggrrrrrr….. oopps, sorry for ranting, as i said, it just makes me all get-off-my-lawn. :o(

          • NOLA

            Oh I get it! One of my nephews (the one about to be 16) can text and chat with real words. His little brother (14) just texts a bunch of gibberish. I don’t have a lot of patience for that.

    • KLG

      For the love of the next person who has to supervise him, PLEASE use this as an opportunity to talk about business culture and etiquette. Kindly let him know that only an emergency (car breaking down, you’re in the hospital, etc.) is an acceptable reason to be 30 minutes late and that if he is going to be even ONE MINUTE late, the appropriate thing to do is to CALL (not text, not email) your supervisor to tell them that. Let him know that if his supervisor is unavailable, he is to leave a polite, professional voicemail (“Hello Pam, this is Jim. I’m so sorry, but I will be 30 minutes late this morning and will see you at 9 am. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx if you need to reach me before I get in.”) and THEN he can send a similarly worded email if he thinks that will reach the supervisor faster.

      • KLG

        Sorry for the Ellen caps but I cannot stand this type of communication. Apparently at 31 I want those kids off my lawn, too.

      • Professor TBA

        I completely agree that this a great teachable moment. Maybe he is the first professional in his family and never learned that this is unacceptable.

        • nona

          Even if he’s not the first professional, it would still be a merciful lesson for which future employers will be thankful. Just because texting is okay with friends, does not mean you should have the same level of familiarity with your boss.

          And, never assume that a boss/supervisor can be reached by text. Remember the poster who had someone try to text her landline and (the someone, not the poster) got huffy about it?

          • KLG

            While I completely agree, as a face-palm aside, my current boss (who is 50) texts instead of emailing because his kids taught him to text and he never really learned to use email. I hate it SO much.

    • SF Bay Associate

      Wow, *facepalm*. “imma be”??? “sry”??? SERIOUSLY?! THOSE ARE NOT WORDS! And one does not address a superior colleague with “Yo.” Argh!!!

      • Herbie

        *cough cough* *hangs head in shame* I sent a few partners at my firm e-mails starting with “Yo.” But in my defense, we’d been working together for 5 years, and at that point the relationships were super casual. I guess I figure that if you can walk into my office, throw a brief on my desk, and yell about how we’re “TOTALLY F*D! SO F*D!” then I can send you an e-mail that starts with “Yo” on occasion.

        • LB

          I think there’s always variance for individual relationships between people who know each other. I work at a pretty small firm and the relationships are very friendly and casual. I don’t think I’ve ever used “Yo!” in particular but. I am SURE I have said something comparable. For example I am aware that OMFG is not work appropriate in normal circumstances but . . . it has happened.

    • Bluejay

      If my intern sent me a text like that, my reply would be “yo, come str8 2 my office 4 a come 2 jesus talk”.

      I mean, seriously, if he thinks that’s acceptable, you need to have a sit down with him and talk about appropriate business conduct. Ridiculous.

    • TCFKAG

      My suggested response for next time:

      Imma be honest, txt me like that again, I’ll keel you. srry.

      But seriously….I shake my head at the crazy young folks and their ways. I mean, I use short hand occasionally on this [site]…but its ironic (but not in the lame hipster way, I swear!)

    • CHL

      Maybe I’m super square, but I actually prefer that my employees text me if they’re running late in the morning. Not all of them have Blackberries and I hate listening to voicemails or trying to pick up my phone if I’m in the middle of my commute. I guess I should also train them that not everyone will be like me!

    • Stepmom re: driving and ACT preparing

      I am copying this discussion thread and emailing it to my 21 and 16 year old stepkids. Which assures that they will never read it because, you know, email is so antediluvian.

  8. anon for this

    This is kind of random but I’m too embarrassed to talk to anyone I know IRL about this. Does anyone else have any trouble buying pants, fitted skirts, or sheath dresses because of um…a more prominent p*bic mound? Geez this is so awkward to ask, but I wonder if anyone else ever has this problem. I literally do not wear any pants because of this, and I have to buy all my pencil skirts a size up to accommodate it, which then makes them look too big in the waist and in the back.
    If anyone else suffers from this, have you found any ways to fix it? I’m trying diet and exercise to reduce overall fat (am about a size 10 now, down from a 14), but it hasn’t shrunk, which is making it harder to buy clothes in my new size.

    • Tired Squared

      I’m a little confused about your question — do you mean a pooch of skin/fat, located kind of under the bellybutton, or are you referring to the actual bony (boney?) area, lower down?

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I have not experienced this issue but I’m guessing you are not alone since I think that is from where the crude term “fuppa” originated. I once inquired as to the definition of “fuppa” and was informed it is an acronym for “fat upper pu$$y area.” So…….while I’m not trying to bring you down by informing you it has a crude slang term, the fact that it has a crude slang term means enough other people must deal with it!

    • Godzilla

      Well, btwn yesterday’s and today’s posts, maybe it’s time to dress for your body shape and give up on the pencil skirts? There are so many types of dresses and skirts out there, including the type Kat featured today in the TPS report. So JSF to the pencil skirts and sheath dresses AMO?

    • also anon for this

      Yep, and this is the reason I almost never wear pants or shorts. I’m fine in pencil skirts unless they’re too tight. Sadly it is just as prominent no matter what size I am; it’s a body shape thing, not a weight thing. I find that it is less visible in black clothing and wide-legged/flowy pants. I also sometimes wear tunic tops if I want to wear tight pants.

    • annony

      Ummmm, I just go with it?? I mean, I wear stuff that fits and isn’t pulling at it, but its my vagina (and yes, I use the term incorrectly in an all encompassing way) and people just shouldn’t be staring at it. It’s rude. And it isn’t something that needs to be fixed. Convinced askmen.com does not have advice for minimizing your package.

    • SW

      I also have this problem. It is not a FUPA. It’s bone, not fat – the way my bones are shaped or my hips are tilted or something along those lines. I’m with the poster above who said she just lives with it. I obviously don’t emphasize it but if I bought all my clothes one size up they would fall off my hips. I usually stick to dark colored bottoms, which seems to make it less obvious.

      I used to wear skirted swimsuits in high school (when I still weighed less than 100 lbs) because I was so self-conscious. You are not alone!

  9. eek

    iPad app recs:

    – Cook’s Ilustrated magazine — The interface is the bomb. $20 for a whole year; does not get you access to online site (that’s a separate subscription). This is not the app for the iPhone (you get access for that from your online subscription).

    – Next Issue app. Basically this is Netflix for magazines for $10/mo. It’s a joint venture between several publishing companies — Mags include All You, Allure, Better Homes and Gardens, Bon Appétit, Bride, Car and Driver, Coastal Living, Condé Nast Traveler, Cooking Light, Elle, Esquire, Essence, Fitness, Fortune, Glamour, Golf, Golf Digest, etc etc.

    • Katie G

      Wow, the Next Issue app sounds awesome. That’s the first thing I’ve heard about the iPad that actually makes me want one. I love my MBA and just can’t see using an iPad very much.

      • eek

        Yeah, I just downloaded the July issues for 19 mags and I can go all the way back to Jan 2012, if I want. Most of the mags are interactive which is great. Plus, I can just scroll through and skim pretty quickly and I never lose my place.

    • oclg

      I just got an iPad on Sunday and was wondering what some favorite apps were. Thanks! Any other suggestions?

      • eek

        Here are the ones I have, in order of usage (frequent to not so much): Netflix, Flipboard, Pandora, Kindle, Notability, Dropbox, ABC Player, Skype, Xfinity TV (for Comcast users), TED, Pandora radio, ABC Player, Zite, PBS player, Yelp, Overdrive (library e-book lending) LinkedIn, Skype WiFi, Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Night Stand (no alarm clock on ipad), Nordstrom, The Weather Channel, BofAmerica, Chipotle, CVS, Hilton, Google Earth, Fandango, Find iPhone, Find Friends

        • oclg

          This is great, thanks! I started with the apps I use most frequently on my phone but I knew there had to be a ton more out there. Now I know what I’m doing when I get home!

      • cbackson

        Seconding Notability and Dropbox, a combo which is invaluable at work (you can take notes in a meeting, and set up Notability to sync to Dropbox so you have access to them back at your desk).

        I also love Spotify. And with Overdrive and the Nook app, I don’t need a standalone e-reader.

        • eek

          Yep – Notability and Dropbox have saved my life (when recruiter calls and wants my most recent resume and I’m on the road….). I’m not on Facebook, so I can’t use Spotify, BURN!

  10. fresh jd

    These were available in Navy on RueLaLa today for $75. I’d hold out for a steeper discount than $130+.

    • AIMS

      They also look like cork to me. Maybe its my monitor but oddly casual for work (or at least for me and mine).

      • fresh jd

        Yea, I really dislike the idea, let alone execution, of cork kitten heels. The navy ones were woven leather like the silver ones in the link Kat posted, so it’s a completely different look.

        • fresh jd

          On second look, they are not kitten heels, but don’t like the cork regardless of the height. Cork only works with espadrilles/wedges and not for work, imo.

  11. DC Law

    Does anyone have a good vacuum recommendation? I would like one that doesn’t have a spinning brush because mine always gets clogged with hairs that I’ve shed. I would spend $200-300 for a good one that will last, preferably bagless. I have low-pile carpet everywhere except the kitchen and bathroom (tile in both of those). Thanks!

    • SugarMagnolia

      I have the Bissel Healthy Home vacuum. It has a really convenient button that makes it easy to turn off the spinning brush when you need to. Also has a HEPA filter for dust/allergens. The first time I used this in my rental, it picked up a TON of dirt from my carpet, which made me realize the previous cleaner I had didn’t work. I think I used a 20% off coupon at B*d, B*th and B*yond and got it for less than $200

    • nona

      Don’t all carpet attachments have the spinning brush? Isn’t that kind of the point of having the spinning brush. Can you do a pre-vacuum run with something (someone on here has a pet hair product that they mentioned using) to get the hair before vacuuming?

      I have have long hair, and my vacuum maintenance just includes cutting the hair off of the brush roller every so often. Just like I have to clean out my sink drain every so often. I’m very good at taking the pipes under my sink apart… and putting them back together too.

      • zora

        “…my vacuum maintenance just includes cutting the hair off of the brush roller every so often.”

        This. It’s all about having a good utility knife/box cutter. ;o)

      • DC Law

        Man, I was hoping a fancy new vacuum (like those Dyson ones with the ball!) would not need me to attack it with scissors every month. Oh well.

        • anon in tejas

          dysons have more suction, so they don’t need to be cleaned this way as often, but it’s still part of regular vacuum maintenance.

        • nona

          I do try to take the hose attachment and get an of the big hair balls I see hanging around, but I don’t think you can get away from a brush if you have carpets. My thinking is you need the brush to kick up anything buried in the carpet, no matter what kind of suction you are getting.

          You can get vacuums that allow you to turn off the brush (hardwood floor mode), so maybe make a pass with that, and you won’t end up with as much hair in the brush?

      • Godzilla

        Google “rubba sweepa” + “flylady”. Purchase awesome purple broom, sweep up your carpets before vacuuming and be amazed that there’s still hair on your head.

    • beccavt

      My dyson vacuum cleaner is quite possibly my most beloved possession. I have hardwood and low pile rugs, and it goes between the two seamlessly. I shed a ton, and have 3 cats, and it is just so so so so so wonderful. Excellent suction that doesn’t gradually go away, gets all sorts of stuff I never knew was in my carpet, etc. Dyson also has great customer service – when a little plastic piece broke off about a year ago, they just had us take it into a local shop where it was fixed for free and they handled all of the warranty paperwork.

      • beccavt

        Just saw the other comments – I’ve cleaned the hair out with a knife once since I’ve owned it (about two years). You still have to do it, but much less often than with my previous vacuums.

        FYI – I don’t have the ball one, just the DC33 Multifloor. I tried out the ball ones – I didn’t really see much difference other than the ball ones look a little cooler and futuristic. I maneuver just fine in my regular one, and the suction, which I care about most, is truly fabulous.

      • eaopm3

        Second the Dyson rec. You can turn the beater brush (if that isn’t what it’s called, I blame my mom) off if you don’t want to use it, but I haven’t had any problems with things getting all wrapped up in it. I’ve had it for two years, and I’m in love with it. Almost every time I vacuum, I ask my H to come look at how new the carpet looks because it still amazes me.

      • Anonymous

        I’ll be a dissenting voice on the Dyson. Hate, hate, hate my Dyson. I really need to go find a new vacuum, but have not wanted to face how much money I wasted on the Dyson.

        I find that it doesn’t clean better than my old vacuum, and if I don’t keep it at just the right angle, I loose suction. It also has much worse clearance than other vacuums I have used, so I am forced to use the hose more often.

    • DC Jenny

      I love the Shark Navigator. You can turn the brush on and off, and it’s bagless. My only complaint is that the cord and the attachment hose are a little too short.

    • DC Law

      Thanks ladies! Now I’m much better informed about vacuum procedure, and I’ll be checking out all your suggestions.

    • academicsocialite

      It’s a splurge, but I love love love my Miele! I love the way it looks (mine is lemon yellow) and I love the way it cleans – but it isn’t bagless, FWIW. But it does mean that I enjoy vacuuming. I find I do have to clean out the hairs from the brush, but not that often.

      • a.k.

        I’ve been debating between a Miele and a Dyson for months now and can’t seem to make a decision. I love the way the Miele seems lighter and more flexible (we have a shedding dog with hair that gets everywhere) but my hangup is the bag cost. Right now I empty out the canister from my POS Dirt Devil every time I vacuum, and I am afraid that spending $5 on a bag every week will turn into an excuse not to do it.

      • Bonnie

        Second for Miele. We have cats who shed a lot and have not had to change bags that frequently. We’re only on our second bag this year.

  12. buffybot

    Le sigh.

    Had a lunch out today with a crowd that included a colleague I consider a fairly good work friend (as in, have socialized as couples outside of work). Innocently ask how wife is, only to be told — oh, didn’t I mention that we separated a few months back?

    I feel 1) awkward (although he reacted with perfect ease and cheer about the topic), 2) sad (I liked them as a couple), 3) disappointed in the office gossip mill (months, people? how did I not know this) and 4) curious — are we entering the Divorce Stage of life?

    Not that this is necessarily what’s happening, but has anyone else seen an age-related wave of marital woe strike their peer group?

    • Jacqueline

      Yes, definitely. Just as there was a wave of marriages, there has been a wave of divorces (I’m in my early 30s) in my peer group.

      • Merabella

        Yea, my husband and I are in different peer groups (6 years apart changes a lot) and some of his friends are now getting divorced.

      • Monday

        I’m 30, and all but two of my friends who have married thus far have gotten divorced. The still-married two are the only ones with kids–don’t know if that’s cause of good marriage, effect of good marriage, or neither.

        For what it’s worth, over the last 2 years I’ve also noticed a wave of longterm relationship breakups (i.e. couple was not married but cohabiting and so on). I wonder if priorities just realign at this time of life, people know themselves and each other better, etc? These breakups all have been hard but also seemed necessary.

    • SugarMagnolia

      I noticed that for those who got married under age 25, there was a wave of divorces around age 32. For those who got married later (older than 30), not divorces yet (and my peers are in their early 40s)

      • Bluejay

        Same. There was a wave of divorces from about age 27 to age 32, and then they stopped. Also, 90% of my friends who were married before age 25 are now divorced.

        • SF Bay Associate

          Oh, how sad. Sorry Bluejay. I am such a different person now than who I was at 24. I can’t imagine still being married to the person I thought I wanted to marry when I was 24. I’m glad I didn’t get married until I was 30… I wasn’t ready before then.

          • Bluejay

            It’s ok. For the most part, it’s because one partner quickly revealed him/herself to be a complete dooshbag. The one married-young couple (married at 21!) who actually took getting married very seriously is still going strong 10 years later with two kiddos.

            I’m glad I didn’t marry in my 20s either. Here’s hoping that it happens in my 30s.

      • Susan

        I wonder, for that group who married young if their marrying young contributed to their not really knowing the other person well enough (as well as their not knowing themselves well enough) to be able to grow together instead of growing apart. Plus, 7yr itch. Plus, at 32, they may feel more optimistic about their future relationship prospects and therefore less willing to stay in a crap marriage.

        It could be that the ones who married later knew themselves and their partners better before deciding to marry; or they’re more resigned to staying in crap marriages.

        • Kontraktor

          Despite marrying young, I’m scheduled to have the 7 year itch around year 49 of our marriage if we continue to spend time together at the minimal rates we are/have in the past. Me, I always look on the bright side of life. :-P

        • Pest

          I think it is all of the above.

          Last fall I got back to work after getting married and going on my honeymoon and got a call at my office from my ex-boyfriend/hookup from my highschool and college years. He somehow found out where I work and called my agency’s directory to find me. I had not seen him in twelve years or spoken to him in six years, since the last time he tracked me down (which he did by calling my mother, who has a listed number). He said he had been thinking of calling me for a year and looked for me on social media (I’m only on Linkedin). We got caught up on what we and our families are up to, and I told him that I was just married. He told me earlier that year he and his wife’s newborn child died from a rare disease. I was sympathetic and polite and said that when he and his wife are in town (I still live in our home city) we can get together. He said some other things that let me think he was not happy with his marriage. He and his wife got married at age 24 (we are 32-33 now). I thought he must have hit some kind of 7 yr itch that inspired him to think of me and track me down again. Recently I found a baby registry for them that said they were expecting a new baby last month. I thought about buying them something from it or sending my ex an email letting him know I saw it and am happy for them (I really am). Then, I thought I would just let sleeping dogs lie.

        • Bluejay

          I think that in large part, my friends who married young grew in different directions than their spouses. For instance, one went to law school in her mid-20s, a few years into the marriage, and wanted nothing more than to live in Europe and do corporate transactional law, while her husband wanted nothing more than to stay in his small town near family. She went overseas for the summer, she cheated, marriage over. In another case, the wife went to law school after working for 5 years, her husband felt neglected by the wife studying all the time, and he cheated. Stuff like that seems pretty common. The couple that is still married shared religious views, but more importantly, they both had the same professional goals and wanted to live in the same place and have children at the same time.

          I think religious views often help a couple stay together, but they also can cause people to get married too quickly because they’re in lust and they’re waiting to consummate the relationship. In my experience, religious couples who don’t get good premarital preparation or who have short dating/engagement periods are just as likely to end up unhappy and divorced as non-religious ones.

      • Sweet as Soda Pop

        I am 25. Of my many (small town deep south upbringing) friends who were married by 25, 3 are already divorced. It’s not even sad to me, because who gets married this young???

    • Nonny

      Oh, yes, it’s depressing. It started a couple of years ago for me and I am crossing my fingers that it will stop. The only good thing about it is that is can then give rise to a whole new crop of weddings! I’ve been to one “next generation” wedding already.

    • Anonymous

      I am actually plesantly surprised at how few divorces there have been in my group of friends. Even at 40, I can only think of 2 friends that have gotten divorced. Most of my friends got married in the 26-29 range, but there are a good number that were younger/older as well.

    • beccavt

      I live in an area of the country where people marry VERY young (I was 19 and practically felt like an old maid, I had been to so many peer’s weddings). My friends are having a wave of divorces about now – and we are all 22-23. :(

    • Maddie Ross

      Just my experience, but I have failed to see a real trend in divorces among my friends from college and, even more notably, graduate school, but I did see a large trend in divorces among my less educated friends. I know this is all conjecture, and I don’t mean it to be derogatory, but among my high school friends that only did some or no college, I saw a big trend to get divorced in my late 20s. Among my work friends and friends from grad school, I cannot discern any “trends” or similarities. They’ve all been very one-off situations.

      • momentsofabsurdity

        I think I read somewhere that divorce is negatively correlated with level of education (also with income level, I think?).

          • Cornellian

            and less income can come as a result of less education, which may mean earlier marriage.

            I generally second all of the thoughts there. My high school friends and family members didn’t undersatnd why I wasn’t married by 20, but at least I’m not divorced at 26!

            I have had some very religious friends (LDS and Orthodox Jewish) who got married very early and are going very strong. I think if you are both in sync about your life plans and what you want out of the relationship, divorce is less likely. Sort of weird, but more freedom can really mean more disagreement.

    • Lil

      I am the only one of my peer/acquaintance group that is divorced. I do not know one other person who is divorced aside from friends of my parents – all happily remarried for decades. It makes me feel very alone.

      I would not wish divorce on anyone, but I do wish I traveled in a more diverse social circle like some of you ladies.

      • cbackson

        I’m definitely the only person of my social circle who is divorced, and it is super lonely. The wave of happily married friends having babies right now also makes it a bit tough.

        • Bluejay

          It’s rough on the never-marrieds, too. In general, though, it’s good that you’re the only divorced one. Watching your friends get divorced hurts, and usually means you’ve lost one of the spouses as a friend too.

    • Research, Not Law

      Honestly, I keep waiting for it. I knew a lot of people who married during or soon after college who really should not have.

      I had a roommate in college do the same thing after breaking up with his long-term girlfriend. I had noticed that when I asked if they had weekend plans etc that he was often saying “oh, we don’t really have plans” or “I have a lot of homework, so I’ll probably just be home.” But finally once he said “We broke up a couple of months ago.” Seriously?? I felt like an a s s for always bringing her up, but could he not have mentioned it sooner?

    • mamabear

      I’m 47. The divorces started when my friends and I were in our thirties and have continued to drip in. Most of my friends are college graduates. All married at different ages. I see no pattern at all related to education or age at marriage. I just see lots of divorces, sorry to say!

      (I’m divorced and remarried myself, so I don’t look at it as the end of the world, but it’s a tough thing to go through.)

    • KK

      This is interesting to me. I’m 28 and there has been a wave of marriages among my peers in the past 2-3 years. Of the people I’m close to, I don’t foresee any divorces. But then I suspect it’s not possible to foresee these things. For those of you who have gone through the divorce wave- were they mostly surprising?

    • TO lawyer

      My current boyfriend would totally do that – he once told me a story of how he ended up at a party (hosted by some of his best friends) and his ex-girlfriend was there. His friends thought they were still together, although this was 8 months after they broke up!

      Some people just don’t share news like that I think.

  13. Legally Brunette

    Attention Nordstrom card holders – just Live Chatted with Nordstrom and the online anniversary sale does not start until 4 am PST tomorrow morning. Happy shopping!

    • Pest

      Yeh! That’s 7 am on the East coast. I know what I’m doing over breakfast.

    • anon

      So Nordstrom card holders also get to pre-shop online now? (As opposed to just in-store.)

    • MaggieLizer

      Thanks! I would’ve been really upset if I’d stayed up til midnight only to find the sale starts in the morning.

    • SF Bay Associate

      Wow, thanks for checking. The Half Yearly sales always start at midnight PST. I would have been so upset to stay up for the Anniversary sale and not have it flip over at midnight. I’m glad that Nordie’s finally put Anniversary pre-sale online, though now I’m worried that checking at 6am PST will mean a lot of things are already sold out in the two hours since the sale went live. Sigh.

  14. Seventh Sister

    TJ: Tanger Outlet Q – Is the $10 coupon book worth it? I’m heading to one of their outlets on the East Coast in a few weeks. While I am not under the impression that outlet malls = massive actual discounts, I wouldn’t mind saving a little money.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Yes if you are doing major shopping at the included stores. What I do is browse and find what I want to buy and ask that it be put on hold while I buy a coupon book. I only buy the coupon book after I have enough stuff on hold so that the book pays for itself. The book will list what stores are included and the discounts. Usually it is good on all purchases, even sales, and can be combined w/ other coupons. There are days, however, I go to the outlets and buy nothing so the coupon would be useless then.

    • Godzilla

      Go to Shopper Services and become a member for life – it’s a one time $10 fee. Every time you go back, you get the coupon book for free (from Shopper Services). And it’s worth it, random % off coupons. And the last time I went, I got a free frisbee, so score.

  15. roses

    So, I’m not one of those people freaking out about the bar. I’m where I need to be and am doing just fine on my practice sets (FWIW, my state’s bar is not known as being particularly difficult). But honestly, it’s getting to the point where I am just *so* bored listening to these lectures that I quite literally fall asleep halfway through them. I’m getting plenty of sleep at night, so tiredness is probably not the issue. Besides chugging caffeine, does anyone have any advice as to how to plow through the next two weeks without falling asleep every hour?

    • Jem

      Just wake up as quickly as possible and you should be fine. I also recommend actually stepping outside during the breaks if you can.

    • Cornellian

      I second the physical activity recommendation. Also make sure you’re still really engaging with the lectures, maybe by taking notes or pausing it to summarize out loud what you just heard. It sounds like you may not be engaged anymore. Maybe you can switch up the position in w hich you study, and try standing at a desk or even walking around. To me, at least, actually seeing the lecturer was unimportant.

    • Barrister in the Bayou

      I redid my outlines… I didn’t like studying from the books, and since a friend had passed on word versions of the Barbri outlines, I just kept streamlining them until I ended up with a 2-3 page outline for each subject. It kept me productively busy when I wasn’t taking practice tests.

      • Barrister in the Bayou

        Dang it… I hit submit before I finished my last thought. I agree with Cornellian in that you may not be engaged anymore and that’s why you’re falling asleep. The same thing happened to me.

    • AnonInfinity

      To be honest, the boredom really surprised me about bar study. The boredom was worse than the stress.

      My recommendation is not to worry about it. I did not watch a few of the lectures because I also couldn’t stay awake during them. I still did the practice tests (plus a little extra) in those areas. I figured that if I’m not able to stay awake, then clearly that’s just not how my brain learns. Instead, I outlined more practice essays than assigned and at least read the answers to even more. That was way more helpful to me than listening to someone drone on and on while I fought to stay awake.

      Passed on the first try in a state that sounds like yours (not known for being particularly difficult).

  17. SoCalAtty

    Since I can’t focus on the revision on the motion I’m supposed to be working on, I’ll post my trip report! Italy was pretty good! First, thank you for all of the suggestions on packing/bags and shopping. I ended up not buying much, but I did pick up a Gucci purse and some cute charms at the Vatican.
    First, we hit the ground running and drove up to Cinque Terre. Should have flown into Milan for that, but plans changed after I had already booked into Rome, so we just drove up. Took about 3.5 hours. We stayed in Levanto, 1 town north of Monterosso, the northernmost Cinque Terre town. While the woman running the “hotel” was really nice, it was kind of a disappointment. Hard bed, broken air…and 90 degrees out with 90 percent humidity. Ok fine, I can roll with it and I was very polite and we went on with our hiking. The Cinque Terre hike was pretty difficult! Especially in the heat with the stagnant air. It was strange to stand on the beach and feel like I was standing in a sauna. 2 days of hiking around and I was ready to high-tail it to Tuscany.
    On the way to Sovana (Tuscany), we stopped in Carrera for a tour of the marble caves – Cava de Marmo, to be exact. It was amazing, and our guide was hysterical and fantastic with languages – she gave the tour in English, Italian, and French! If anyone goes to Carrera, go to the Marmo tour, you will love it. From there, we did a Pisa “drive by.” We just wanted to see it, take a picture and run from the crowds, which we did. What a tourist trap. On to Sovana…
    We checked in to our hotel, which was much better than the 1st, although I think they bought the mattresses at the same place…this one was just newer. It was a tiny town, and the wedding party essentially took it over. July 4th we went over and spent the day at the local hot springs – Terme di Sorano – and that was pretty fantastic. The wedding was the 5th, in a beautiful 16th century church, and the 6th we headed to Rome.
    In Rome, we dropped the rental car back at the airport (thank goodness, the air quit on us on the way to Tuscany and I almost died. Of course, no sympathy from the rental car place because, as he put it, us Americans use too much air anyway. Fine, but I paid for a rental car with air, so that’s what I would like thanks. Not at all wanting to make a scene, I smiled and internally noted to take it up with the US office of Enterprise. No big deal.) We grabbed the express train to Roma Termini…and the metro/subway was down due to worker strikes. Awesome. Again, smiled and took a cab for 9 euro. Also not a big deal.
    Our hotel in Rome was at the Spanish Steps. I was nervous walking up the stairs to get in (narrow, dark), but when we were let in the front door it was like the clouds parted – it was amazing! This particular hotel has only 5 suites on the 2nd floor, and was basically between Versace and Gucci. Somehow I found Rome’s Rodeo Drive, and the room was fantastic. Our host set us up with a list of places to eat and a map. Fresh pastries dropped at our door every morning, with a fancy coffee machine in the room. I’m so bummed we only spent 2 nights there! We then proceeded to do what I termed the Rome Death March all over the town (ok, maybe that’s inappropriate, but I can’t help myself). That night, we wandered over to the
    Castel Sant’Angelo just to see it up close, and found they had a 10:30pm night tour, so we did that. 2 hours later, I wanted to collapse. The next day we did the Vatican garden tour and then hit the main art rooms – along with 100,000 of my closest, smelly friends. The crowds were such that, had there been an emergency, I’m sure people would have been trampled and hurt. After that we were so exhausted we went back to the room for a nap (and to escape the heat). Then it was dinner (amazing) and a walk around the Coliseum and the Roman Forum (closed, but you could cruise the perimeter). Finally we called it a night and hit the plane the next day.
    A few lessons learned: 1) Spend the money for the rental car upgrade. 2) Don’t go to Italy in July. 3) Upgrade your room. You’re exhausted at the end of the day, you’ll want to be super comfy. 4) It is just the people in the airports and the major tourist spots that are rude, not the general public.
    I probably learned a lot more, but that’s all my jet lag fried brain can conjure for now. Once I get a blog up with some photos I will post a link!

    • Kontraktor

      Glad you had a nice time, even if the trip had a few hiccups. :-) I guess that’s the beauty of traveling and adventures, you never know what will happen.

      I second the Rome Death March mentality. Even when the metro is running, it’s not all that connective so mostly you just have to walk everywhere. Plus the streets are so windy, it’s easy to double back a lot and get lost. I am not sure my feet ever hurt so much in my life as they did from the days I went to Rome. Also, I second not going in the summer. I’ve heard it is as stifling as you describe. I went in December and not only was the weather great, but the city was deserted. NO line at the Colussium. Wait to get into St. Peter’s was maybe 15 minutes. If/when I go back, it will definitely be in winter time. Plus I got the benefit of having everything be all decorated for Christmas.

      • a.

        Yeah man. My favorite ever Christmas was the one I spent in Rome. Rome from June to August–not so much fun.

        But SoCalAtty, glad you had a good time :) No trip is ever going to be without its bumps.

      • Gail the Goldfish

        God, the walking. I thought I was going to die in Rome from all the walking in the summer. That, and I wanted to strangle our tour guide by the end because she kept yelling “Andiamo!” (“Let’s go.” No, I don’t wan to go, can’t we sit, rest, and have a gelato?)

    • NOLA

      Totally agree about the time of year. Because of the schedules of various people, we went mid to late June. Our hotel in Milan had beautiful air conditioning and blackout shutters. It’s amazing we ever woke up the first morning. Our apartment is Bologna didn’t have air and it wasn’t too bad at night except that we had to leave the windows open and the hookers on the ring road were yelling “Yoohoo!” at passing cars for half night night. I wish we could have gone earlier in the summer, but it was such an awesome trip that I don’t regret a minute.

    • ss

      Glad you enjoyed but so sorry to hear about the Rome Death March. The centre of Rome is actually pretty compact, dense with dramatic design and architecture, and there is great espresso and gelato every couple of blocks. Hope you have a chance to go back for a longer stay – it’s good for at least a week (and 2 weeks is even better !)

  18. Anon

    Any ideas on where I can take a math (Pre calc or Calc I) course online for a reasonable price? I have contacted all the major universities in my state and they either don’t offer the course in the summer, online, or charge a ridiculous amount in fees/tuition. I have also looked at some of the free “open course” online type of classes but they don’t have exams so I am not sure how you would test yourself and measure your progress.

    FWIW I am looking to take it for fun so I am not looking for college credit.

    • karenpadi

      Have you tried the Khan Academy? They are youtube videos that include quizzes. All of my co-workers kids are doing them (Silicon Valley–what can I say?).

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I would look at BYU. They have a high school precalc class for $150 and a college level one for $600. How much were you looking to spend?

    • InfoGeek

      Try http://www.aleks.com.

      You can pay by the month, by the six months, or by the year. You can switch courses as many times as you want while you have an active subscription. It’s pretty cheap.

      It’s probably better for reviewing material than for learning completely new material. There’s no fancy video, but there are text instructions and then you answer questions on that topic until you’ve shown mastery.

      Their innovation is a pie chart based control panel. Each slice is a different area of the course. You can work on any area that you have the prereqs for at the current time. As you master topics, your pie slices also fill up. There are periodic reviews that can reset your pie slices if you forget things. It’s a very empowering way to work.

  19. momentsofabsurdity

    Odd question that just occurred to me – my boss is sick (not contagious) and asked that I come to work at his house tomorrow for the day. His wife will be there (I have met her several times at company parties) and so will his kids. I’ve never been to his house before — I don’t need to bring a gift or anything, right? Since I’m there for work purposes?

    • Maddie Ross

      I would personally think that no, you do not need to bring a gift. You are there for work and, IMO, are going out of your way to make it easier on him. That said, since he’s sick and his family is there, if you are going in the morning, I might stop for doughnuts or muffins as a friendly gesture to the family. But no, no “hostess” gift.

    • TCFKAG

      I saw that this morning. At which point I burst out into an uncontrolled giggle in the office, right after complaining to my co-document reviewer how boring my docs were. At which point, through my chortles, I was like…must…get…off…buzzfeed.

      Darn cubes, always giving me away.

    • eek

      hahaha – i also had to click on the nicholas cage as a cat photo gallery. That’s funny.

  21. Mira

    Am I too late to the party?

    My salon has this special right now where you can change your haircolor from red/brown/blonde to one of the other two options and they will do a touch-up and free change back after a few months. I’m a brunette and thinking of going red (not Joan Holloway/Harris red, but, you know, a different color). I’m in BigLaw on the West Coast. Is that unprofessional? Am I thinking too hard? I really want to do this, but I’m not sure if a significant hair color change would be bad. I’m not senior enough to do whatever I want.

    Advice please?

    • karenpadi

      I’m in Silicon Valley; mid-level seniority-ish (firm doesn’t really do seniority). I cut off my bob to a pixie 6 months after starting (3 years ago). Last month, I went light blonde but returned to “dark blonde” two weeks ago.

      No big deal. Mostly male office–some guys didn’t notice it. Before I got the pixie, I told a partner I was going to cut it off and I don’t think thought I was going to go through with it. Clients saw my hair the day before I dyed it back and the day after. There was some comments (“when did you have time to do that?!”–meeting day before ended at 5:30pm and next meeting was 9am). But only one guy cared about me going light blonde and he thought I was doing it to get attention (yeah, he’s a character).

      Go for it.

    • onehsancare

      I don’t think it’s the drama of the change so much as the drama of the color that I’d be concerned about. If it’s a color within the range of “professional” (as in our profession, not the oldest!), go for it!

    • Bluejay

      I’m a natural redhead and I think it’s the bestest and most professionalest and funnest color. Go for it.

  22. SV in House

    A friend/colleague has a pregnant wife. We were talking today and he asked me for advice on what he should be doing for his wife. I suggested that he be participatory (go to doctor’s appointments, read, etc.) and get her a body pillow. He said “great idea — it is almost her birthday!” My response was that he should get the pillow as a “just because” present and something focused on her as a wife, not a mom-to-be. Thoughts? My youngest is 7, so it has been a while for me!

    • eek

      No kids, but I think I’d want a birthday present for me because being pregnant is the result of a partnership. Same as I wouldn’t want an anniversary present for my birthday if they were both together. I think when you’re pregnant it’s important to recognize the mom to be is still a wife, mother, sister, daughter, etc. Though I guess a body pillow with another gift is a nice gesture.

    • Bluejay

      A body pillow is a necessity to prevent back pain and help her sleep. It is not a birthday present. Sheesh, men.

      Is it her first? I think I would want a gift certificate to shop for nice maternity clothes (assuming she has to dress up for her job), or a prenatal massage or yoga classes if she already has maternity clothes..

    • Seventh Sister

      Totally agree. I’d go with something that has nothing to do with babies – a gift card for books or music, maybe tickets to a play or the ballet or something like that.

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