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Anon
Would love some relationship advice. I have been with my boyfriend for a couple of years. He is from a different country, where his family still resides. He is committed to staying here, but also committed to balancing and making sure he still sees his family enough. This most recent year, his mom stayed with him for three months, with his dad and brother each visiting during that time as well. I spent a lot of time with his family, but our one-on-one time was more limited (a couple of nights for a few hours each week, but no day-long dates just the two of us or overnights). I honestly really kind of liked having more time to myself, but I also felt like it gave me a scarcity mindset around quality time with him in our relationship (though I was spending a ton of time with him and his family).
I am learning now that he will be going home for two months in February. I’m supposed to visit for a couple of weeks to his home country during this time, along with my parents, which I’m really excited about. But at the same time, it is making the scarcity mindset thing more pronounced. It will be a total of 5 months for the 12-month period in which his parents are here or he’s there, and it makes it hard to feel like we can just have an extended period of quality time together without some interruption looming overhead.
I have abandonment issues and an anxious attachment style, so I know this is playing into it a bit. It almost feels more about control and routine to some extent, though there is also a part of me that will definitely miss him. The plan is if we got married that his parents can stay with us periodically and we’d go back to his home country for two months a year, though it’s unlikely it would be three months at a time of his family visiting again.
My goal would be to use this as an opportunity to work on my own control and anxiety issues, since I do know how important family is and this arrangement isn’t a dealbreaker by any means. It’s also nice how warm and welcoming his family has been, in spite of the cultural differences. But how do I work on the anxiety and feeling of loss? Sometimes it manifests as pretty pronounced anxiety and loss or even heartbreak, which isn’t rational, and is less about actual time together and more about being scared of losing him in some abstract sense.
Monday
It sounds like this is the “price of admission” for this relationship. You say that once you get married, if you do, his parents won’t stay for as long, but I wouldn’t even count on that. Especially if they start to have health issues, someone has a baby in the family etc. the visiting schedule could stay the same or even intensify.
If you’re sure that this isn’t a dealbreaker, then I would think about how to develop more interests or commitments that don’t involve him. (I am like this and it works fine for me, but it isn’t for everyone.) If you already feel you’re as independent and self-driven as possible, then this may be a bigger issue than you want it to be.
Anon
+1 they will visit more, not less once you’re married. Especially if kids are in the picture.
Anon
+1
Once his parents age, they will probably expect to live with you. Very common in South Asian cultures. And how will you feel about your husband disappearing for months at a time once you have kids?
Anon
I don’t know what happened to my response on your last comment so I’ll repeat it here. This would be a major dealbreaker for me. Being in a serious relationship or being married means the family you create should be your priority. I would never want my in-laws living with me and dictating my life. Perhaps you’re feeling anxious because you can sense that his parents are his priority, not you.
Anon
Agree on all of this.
Cat
this would be a dealbreaker for me, too. This is a major lifestyle difference.
anon
Yup, would definitely be a dealbreaker for me. There’s being close to family, and then there’s running off across the world for months at a time. Particularly if/when you have children.
Anon
Agree it’s both a price of admission and, for me, would be an absolute deal breaker.
Anon
My last relationship ended because he was from a culture where the husbands parents live with the couple. I slowly began to realize that I would in fact be living with them and have to follow their rules, etc. Needless to say there were a lot of fights and he eventually broke up with me because I wouldn’t be the obedient wife.
Anon
+1 – cultural differences can be a very big deal in a relationship and while there’s nothing objectively wrong with them, it would be a lot more than I’d be willing to take on coming from a very different culture
Vicky Austin
My (disjointed) thoughts:
-Don’t work through your control/anxiety issues on your own. If you’re not in therapy, I would see about it. The fact that you sussed out your feelings as being related to abstract fears and not actual time spent together is great, but I do think it points to this being something you need time and therapy to work through; and no amount of rational Convincing Yourself will do the trick. Ask me how I know.
-Discuss this with your boyfriend. Ask if perhaps he can set a rough schedule with his parents so that all visits in either direction are spaced 3-4 months apart so that you can feel like extended quality time is doable.
-Discuss further with your boyfriend ways to make even smaller windows of time feel like quality time, in case the spacing idea isn’t doable, or just generally. Plan the day dates/small trips together for regular intervals if this is what makes you feel connected.
-Discuss further with your boyfriend the need for Us Time during extended visits in either direction. Build it into these visits. Find ways to get your in-laws out of the house for an afternoon or so when they’re staying with you. Intentionally plan things to do together without in-laws when you’re visiting them. Etc. (Set those in-law boundaries now!)
anon
Yes! If there are regular months-long visits back and forth, then the visitors need to find ways to entertain themselves a bit more while they’re visiting. There’s no reason you can’t have one day-long date or an overnight in an entire quarter. (And does “no overnights” mean you didn’t spend a single full night together for 3 months, or that you two didn’t go away overnight?)
Anon
I think it means they didn’t spend any time together without his parents for 3 months! Yikes.
anon
People over-recommend therapy here, but I think therapy is probably the best way for you to work on anxiety, feeling of loss, abandonment issues, etc.
One thing that jumps out at me is your idea of “some interruption looming overhead.” Maybe it’s the anxiety/scarcity mindset, but right now, between these visits, you have time to enjoy extended quality time together.
That said, long-term, you don’t have to like or stay in a relationship where your SO’s parents stay with him, or he travels to see them, for months at a time. I would find that very disruptive.
Anonymous
Are you sure that spending 2 months a year in his home country going forward is feasible for you? Will you always have a job that can accomodate that? Do you want kids? If so, how will you uproot them for 2 months/year – will this be what they do every summer break? Are you okay with that? Would he leave you to solo parent for months at a time as well? There are no wrong answers here, but these are big issues for long-term compatibility, and they would make me anxious too. If you have been together for a couple of years it is entirely reasonable for you to be evaluating whether this is what you want for the rest of your life.
Anon
Without judging whether OP should stay in this relationship (and it sounds like this is a nonnegotiable price of admission and she should proceed with the assumption that it will not change if they get married, except that of necessity living together would give her more time with him when his parents are visiting – while also meaning she will have more time with the in-laws), I want to push back on the idea that it is “uprooting” kids to have them spend 2 months a year in a different place.
Due to my parents’ divorce, I spent every summer from the time I was 3 until I was 23 in a completely different place than I spent the rest of the year. It was not some kind of traumatic experience and it gave me important insights into a world and a culture I would not have experienced otherwise – in addition to giving me a chance to build relationships with my extended family. Yes – it meant that my summers were booked but the benefits very much outweighed the disadvantages.
OP – the good news is that you are dating someone who takes family obligations seriously, which is a wonderful quality in a husband. The bad news is that he takes family obligations seriously and because he does not have a narrow view on what family is, he is going to prioritize his family of origin more than many people in the west which might interfere with his relationship with you. Only you can decide how you feel about that. It is not a “right” or “wrong” issue, but is important to have alignment.
Anon
This family dynamic will not change, especially once you have children. His family will come here for months at a time and you will go there for weeks, if not months, at a time. This is the price of admission; decide if it’s something you can live with.
Have you thought about what this means for children in the future? It can be disruptive for them to be ping-ponging between countries and cultures. My aunt married a man from another country, and she was expected to travel back with him to his home country for many months of the year. They eventually had two children, my cousins, and sometimes the kids went to school in the US, sometimes they went to school in the dad’s country. The kids always felt pulled between two very different worlds, and never felt like they had solid footing in either of them. They didn’t feel “American enough” when with their American peers and vice versa when with the peers from their dad’s home country. There’s a term for these children, and I can’t recall it, but there are studies about how the children of immigrants wealthy enough to travel back and forth frequently do feel ungrounded in life, unmoored in society. In some ways, the modern ability for immigrants to easily travel back to the old country can make it hard to build a new life in a new country. My cousin is now married to a man from another country in the region, and their children will live the same ping-pong lifestyle, this time with an extra “pong” – America, granddad’s country, dad’s country.
And as a fellow, former anxious attacher, I urge you to head to therapy to discuss this. In one relationship, I was anxious because my needs weren’t being met because my partner couldn’t meet them – it didn’t matter that he was nice to me and that we were a good fit on paper; he wasn’t emotionally able to meet my needs, so of course I was anxiously attached to him. When I met my husband, I was anxious in the beginning, but he cared about me and worked to make sure my emotional buckets were filled, something that prior guy hadn’t been capable of. I felt stable with future-husband in a couple months, where I had never felt stable with previous guy in a whole year. It says something that you’ve been with this fella for a couple years and you’re feeling this anxious.
Anonymous
Indian American here and amongst Indians from India that I know, this is pretty much the norm. I really would make sure that you won’t be resentful about this long term because the reality is, you won’t have family moments that are just you and DH and your eventual kids, the grandparents will ALWAYS be in on it because they will spend more and more time with you until the time that DH can get them here as permanent residents with a green card. Some women are fine with this or willing to make do, but it is very much of marrying an entire family rather than marrying a guy. And you can’t expect that any moment whether your pregnancy or your kid’s school play or high school graduation or your family’s vacation to Disney will just be YOURS.
Anon
Out of curiosity do you think it’s becoming or will ever become more common for Indian guys in America to adopt a more typically “American” lifestyle of not living with their parents and not spending massive amounts of time with their parents, etc?
I ask because I’m white and where I live there are lots of Indian guys on dating apps. I’ve gone with some of them and they’re nice guys, but the extreme family dynamics scare me off.
Anon
They’re not a monolith.
Anonymous
Agreed. My partner is Indian and I’m white. He does spend a lot of time with family (as do I and that was important to me in finding someone) but his family live here. While it’s cultural expectation for a lot of South Asians, how it manifests depends on the individual and their family dynamics.
Anon
From the frequent comments here, it seems a lot of westernized ethnic South Asians are rejecting tradition to an extent, but it is so deeply culturally embedded even small steps are a huge battle.
Anonymous
I posted above regarding Indian Americans/Indians from India. Regarding Indian-Americans, as in born and raised in America and their parents have lived here for forty or fifty years, yes they can be more westernized. Not all of course, but it’s can be more common. Some of those guys will still insist on living within a half hour of their parents and seeing their parents every weekend, but it’ll be more more like dropping by for two hours on a Saturday, while everyone lives in their own house. While that can still feel like a lot, it’s still different than – mom and dad live with us in our home and are there with us for every meal and we can’t ever sneak off into our bedroom for gardening time because it’d be “disrespectful” to mom and dad sitting right there on the couch. And some Indian-American guys – though fewer – are even starting to be ok with moving to California or wherever their job options may be the best and developing their own lives and families there, even if mom and dad are in NJ. For their part, the moms and dads of both of these kinds of guys tend to want to live in their own homes that they’ve had for four decades, they have their own 401ks and do not want to depend on their sons and DILs financially or otherwise. These parents are also “wise” enough to have opened their eyes to lots of things including the fact that when you are dependent on your son – i.e. living in his house – you don’t always get your way, esp with DILs who want to live THEIR way in their own homes. So these parents and sons have kind of learned that the relationship that has you seeing each other every weekend is still better than fulltime togetherness.
As for Indian guys from India, no I don’t see this changing anytime soon. I mean it probably will over time, but we’re talking decades if ever. There’s just a LOT of guilt there that does lead them to always putting parents above wife. Guilt about leaving their parents back home in often not so great living conditions, guilt about having money when their parents don’t, guilt about not being there daily as parents age etc. Guys like this are the ones who are quick to say sorry my parents HAVE TO come live with us three months a year and I HAVE TO go there two months a year, I don’t care if you like it or not. And eventually that becomes full time parents living with once green cards come through with the son fully financially supporting the parents and never saying no to mom and dads wants even if that means their own child can’t go to private school or ritzy summer camp or whatever. And bear in mind when these guys aren’t visiting mom and dad or buying their plane tickets to visit, they are sending money back home which is often a source of contention with spouses esp if you together need to save for something big like a down payment or kids college.
Anon
They’re individuals but generally I would say no. The family dynamics are not as traditional as they would be for someone who grew up in India but still sooo different than white Americans. (My best friend is of Indian ancestry born here, and I know a lot of Indian Americans. My BFF’s mother and MIL both live with them. She’s very happy with this arrangement but I would not be.)
Anon
I’m not going to say I would never date an Indian American (again), but it is highly unlikely. In my experience, they try to give you every reassurance that it will be fine and neither culture will overshadow the other, but they are lying through their teeth. They don’t want white American culture to overshadow their own. They will say X, Y, Z, but they’re all talk and when push comes to shove, they will not be able to stand up to their family and put you first.
Anon
That was my experience with an ex as well.
Anon
I also want to add that you shouldn’t gaslight yourself by saying you’re overly anxious and feeling abandoned when your boyfriend literally leaves for months at a time.
Anon
Good point.
Anon
This is exactly what I was thinking and trying to articulate. I spent so much time when I was dating psychoanalyzing myself and coming up with theories like this when really, no, it was just my actual internal warning bells that something was wrong with the relationship and not with me.
Aunt Jamesina
I wouldn’t be okay with no overnights with my partner for three months straight. That’s a ton of missed time and a statement that his family comes first. Which is fine for some, but not for me.
anon
+1. The “no overnights” bothers me because it’s taking away any time for intimacy for 3 whole months! I’m guessing here, but is this about not being married and the parents being conservative? Or just not wanting to leave mom alone? Either way, SO needs to say, “Mom, I’ll be going over to OP’s house after dinner tonight, here’s the key, I’ll see you after work tomorrow.” I cannot imagine being married to a man who’s so afraid of what his parents will think or say, or have him so convinced of their dependence on him, that he’s unwilling to do that much, especially if s*x might be in the cards for him.
anon
Eff no. Add kids and this would be a disaster. If you’re feeling this way now, I don’t know how it gets better. You’re not overly anxious or “feeling” abandoned. You are abandoned. How does this work long term?
Anonymous
This is bad girl. Get out. You do not need therapy to twist yourself into a pretzel to fit in with this wacky arrangement. DTMF.
Anon for This
As someone on the other side of this (I am much closer to my family of origin than many Americans find normal or comfortable) here are my thoughts:
“White American” culture is not right or wrong when it comes to how it views family (although I will note that is also not a monolith). Other cultures are not right or wrong when it comes to how they view family. I am honestly a little disturbed by the tenor of some of the comments here and the assumption that your way is THE correct way.
What is important is that spouses are at least reading from the same book if not on the same page on issues like: how much priority (if any) family of origin has over the nuclear family, how you both feel about parents visiting for months at a time, visiting family for weeks or months at a time, spending holidays and vacations with family, how religion and language will be handled, how child care is going to work (that MIL you don’t want to live with is often also the person who will drop everything to take care of your kid! but a lot of cultures have a lot of baggage around working mothers), what “respect” means, etc. It is one of the reasons that cross-cultural marriages are hard.
OP – it certainly sounds like you have some insecurities that therapy might help with based on your description but it also sounds like there is a real disconnect between your wants and needs and his. Before you get in any deeper, I suggest getting one of the better premarital counseling books and going through some of the exercises. I will however also note that a lot of this would be mitigated if the two of you were married and living together since you would presumable share a house and a bedroom.
Anon
Thanks for this comment. My mom married into the “White American” way and I married out of it again into a more traditional family. It was hard at first. But there are pros as well as cons, and I’ve come to really appreciate some of the same things that caused friction in the past.
OP, it did help me to keep working on just feeling less insecure (I would go down the “does he really like me?” path, which wasn’t truly rational looking at all the choices he’s made in aggregate).
A
I think this is less about the daily and more about the bf’s priorities.
I’m Indian and my in-laws stay with us 2m each year but it’s very clear that I don’t follow their rules, they follow any I have when they’re under my roof. I get plenty of 1on1 with DH because he makes me the priority and does not spend time in our home country since his folks visit. So it’s on your bf really.
Anonymous
I want to paint my downstairs bathroom/laundry room a dramatic color. Any suggestions? Thinking a dark blue/teal. This room gets no natural light and is currently a light green. Ideally would be Sherwin Williams brand. Thanks!
anon
More on the blue side but SW Granite Peak. Dramatic but not too dark. I’ve also done Thunderous in our bathroom which I know ten years from now will be very “all the color 2022” vibe of dated because we are fighting with the unfortunate early 00s tuscanification from builders.
Vicky Austin
Ugh, our house is totally early 00s tuscanified. We have been slowly working through it, but man!
Anon
Omg one of my friends juuust did a tuscanified kitchen remodel in a midcentury home and I was like whyyyyyyy. It wasn’t cheap, either!
pugsnbourbon
This is a great color. I actually used it when revamping a building color scheme at my old job!
Anon
I painted a dining room SW Naval and get a ton of compliments on it. If you want something brighter, I love Indigo Batik, although I haven’t used it personally.
Anon
Replying to my comment above to add that if you want something more greenish since you mentioned teal, we loved SW blue peacock but ultimately went with a different color in our office/ den that just worked better with the existing flooring.
Anonymous
My bedroom is currently either Behr “Brooklyn” or “Midnight in New York” and I love it. Make sure you have enough artificial lights and keep the ceiling white or it will feel like a cave though.
Anonymous
PS – it reads less gray and more green in real life
Anon
SW Mount Etna is a deep dark blue-teal.
BeenThatGuy
Benjamin Moore Navy Hale from the Heritage Collection. It looks amazing in my half bath with white trim/white toilet and brushed gold/brass accessories.
Anon
I love teal blue. I’d go for that, keep the trim white.
If you’re redoing your bathroom right now I’d reject black hardware. That is overdone and going out of style.
Dr. The Original ...
Not the asked for brand but Behr Caribe is gorgeous in person, I miss when my walls were that color (before I moved)
Anon
I find that I can make cheap (like from Walmart) shoes last forever, but never pumps, so I’d be afraid that in my hands, they’d be single-use. Are their brands of pumps for people who drive cars (messes up right shoe) and live in an area where the paving stones everywhere are Enemy #1 for skinning the leather/suede off of any tapered heel?
Cat
For (1) I never drive in heels, I find it uncomfortable. Just change in the car.
For (2) I would think the featured shoes are ideal for you? Block heels are your friend for avoiding a scrape from getting stuck in a narrow crack.
Anon
+1 Block heels and carrying flats.
Aunt Jamesina
Yup, and driving in heels can be dangerous.
Anon
I don’t wear nice shoes outside. They live at the office.
Senior Attorney
All I have to say is I LOVE that shoe.
Moving to DC
I’m moving to DC after spending the last couple years overseas. I’m from MD so I’m familiar with the area, but my info probably is dated. Trying to decide where to live (will be renting an apt) and narrowed it down to SW Waterfront, Hill East, or Old Town North (VA). Any recommendations between those 3 neighborhoods?
Anonymous
Fun! Will you be commuting, and if so, to where? I live in SW and really like it- super close to the Wharf, Navy Yard, Capitol Hill, the mall, and all the soon to be development at buzzard point. I really like it but it comes down to what you are looking for though- SW is much more central, but with big (mostly more expensive) apt buildings. Hill East is cute townhouses, so is Old Town North. If you live in Old Town it’s hard for me to imagine you’ll get into the city much, esp with the metro disruptions.
S
Waterfront seems like an outlier of those two so maybe decide if it’s your top choice or third choice?
Anon
Where will you be working and how old are you? I’m married and 40 and live south of Old Town and like it for the easy proximity to grocery stores and real shopping, where being in DC you’re either lugging a couple bags of groceries home or getting delivery and you have to get in your car and leave to get any breathing room. I also appreciate all the restaurants in Old Town. But if by “Old Town North” you mean near the new Potomac metro stop, that depends on if you like a more suburban vibe – it’s near a good Giant, Target, and TJ Maxx, and good neighborhood walking paths, but there’s no culture/nightlife that would be easier to find downtown.
It’s been a decade since I lived in Hill East and thought about moving to SW Waterfront, so I’m afraid I can’t specifically speak to it.
Anonymous
Has anyone found a place in the northern Va area where you can go for a covid booster that will be masked up, not just me but everyone or most people masked? I know the state isn’t running sites anymore like last year. Seems like the only options are pharmacies where no one masks even as people shuffle in for testing and meds. Checked with my doctors office and while they don’t have the vaccine the health system has it at the hospital pharmacy – again people who’ve been admitted to the hospital checking out and maybe picking up meds on the way out.
Are there any options that are safer? Willing to go to DC or the close in part of Maryland.
Anon
Drive through clinics? Not masked but at least it’s outdoors. But really the risk is incredibly low if you wear a KN95. You’re in there for like 10 minutes.
Anonymous
I’m looking for a drive through in N Va or DC or MD and have not found one. Any leads?
Anon
I’m in a different state, but when I got mine at CVS, the only people in that part of the store were the pharmacist and my husband and me, and we were all masked. If you schedule it mid morning I bet it won’t be very busy and you’re only there for a few minutes, so one way masking with a good mask should be pretty good protection.
Anon
Pharmacists are not consistently masking in general. Both Walgreens and CVS allow vaxxed employees to work without masks. You might get lucky but I wouldn’t count on this.
Anon
Do any of them offer vaccines the the same hour they open? I would try that approach since there will be less ambient COVID and probably fewer people in general.
And it’s completely not okay that pharmacies don’t have mask requirements. Mixing all the people trying to avoid COVID with the people trying to pick up their Paxlovid is not smart.
Anon
I think going first thing in the morning might be your best bet.
I know the pharmacists at my neighborhood Walgreens in Alex are still masked. Can’t speak to the cashier behind the regular register, though. But if you went early enough to avoid other people, I think that’s as good as you can do.
Anonymous
I’d ask if health systems like VHC, Inova, or Kaiser have it. Often they’ll give it to you even if you aren’t a patient of theirs. Yes you’ll have to go into a hospital pharmacy, but I’d do that with a high quality mask and the hospital buildings themselves require at least surgical masking which is far better than what you get at CVS. I know the KP location at Union Station routinely gives flu shots at the pharmacy which is on the first floor, so while you are definitely crossing paths with patients who could be there for who knows what, unlike at CVS they are masked. You don’t go into any of the patient care areas at KP so it’s not unlike walking thru an airport or wherever masked.
anon
Everyone at the DC Covid Centers are masked. No appointment or ID necessary and you can get your flu shot at the same time. There is one is each ward, you can look up which one is closest to you. I have been to the one in Ward 4 many times and recommend it: everyone was super friendly and easy street parking.
Anonymous
VHC would not even give it to my very high risk and immobile husband when he was inpatient in the ICU and hospitalized during other stays over the last two years. I wouldn’t count on getting it there.
Anon
I’m not sure what the masking situation will be, but Montgomery County is still running clinics that I believe non-residents can sign up for. My prior experience for other boosters was that workers and other people were masked, although my appointment this time around is Sunday so can’t speak for the current status.
Anon
Highly unlikely. The CDC even dropped mask requirements for hospital visitors so I doubt you’ll find anywhere like this now.
InHouse Anon
Vienna Rexall. 100% masking when I went a couple weeks ago, even though nowhere else in town is (other than dr offices).
Anon
I wrote over the weekend about problems with the office mean girl and am struggling with conflicted feelings.
As anticipated, my boss has ferociously jumped on the problem and I have full confidence I will not be bothered by her any further. That may be because she is getting managed out on an accelerated schedule (very likely), she may be given a zero tolerance, final chance warning to cut the BS (less likely), or she may be offered the opportunity to take a more junior role in a separate division (not likely at all). Her boss is also now aware of several bigger issues that were previously not on the radar and realizes I was not on a vindictive rampage when raising concerns about her. This all has me relieved and feeling heard, valued, and secure in my position.
However, I feel like such an awful, guilty person. I have never caused someone else to be fired and hate to think my speaking up means her family will be struggling. She is the only source of income for her household and has young children. I know objectively that she is an adult with agency and has been clearly told that her actions are hurtful and unacceptable, but in my over-analyzation of her behavior, I keep second guessing myself. Should I have been more patient? Had thicker skin? Does she actually have the good intentions she keeps verbalizing but simply does not understand how she comes across? Or is she just playing games with us this whole time and doesn’t really care? Is she enjoying the chaos and just loves manipulating an entire office?
How do you get out of your own head with this?
Anon
You didn’t cause somebody to be fired, they took care of that all by themselves with their own behavior.
Anon
+1,000. If she didn’t want to be fired, she shouldn’t have been such a $hit employee.
Of Counsel
It sounds like she is being given a chance to turn this around Whether she takes it is on her. I will repeat what my boss told me when I expressed regret under similar circumstances: “You did not get him fired. He got himself fired.”
Repeat until you believe it.
Vicky Austin
Your post from the weekend doesn’t add a ton of context, but I find it helpful to literally visualize the thing you are trying to stop thinking about in an actual rearview mirror. Also, see the silver lining: you brought this to the right people and they are doing the right thing about it. Whether this person cleans up her act is on her.
Anon
There are many people in this situation, not just you. You absolutely did not cause her to be fired. A) She had actions that were disruptive that you communicated to management. B) Management decided to take action to deal with the problem, and whatever they do was their decision, not yours. You communicated things she was doing (her role in it was being toxic), and that is all you’ve done. If it hadn’t been you, someone else would have reported issues similarly, and she’d be in the same situation.
Don’t feel guilty, and just let it go. “Not my monkey, not my circus” would be my internal refrain.
FWIW, I always feel this way after anything. I broke up with an abusive ex and felt horrible when our friends cut him out when they found out what he did me. I felt guilty and awful and like it was all my fault. But it wasn’t – he did those things, and they decided they didn’t want someone like that in their lives. I did not ruin his friendships. The same is true here. You’re a good person for caring, but excessive guilt is often what allows people to continue to treat you unfairly and you blame yourself for it.
Last thing: you’re not a crazy person inventing stories about her behavior or reading toxicity into it when it’s not there. You interact with hundreds of people in a given year. How many of them do you have these issues with? Are you constantly inventing false narratives about other people? I seriously doubt it. Unless you’re completely out of touch with reality, don’t feel bad about relaying your experiences to your boss.
Anon
“However, I feel like such an awful, guilty person. I have never caused someone else to be fired and hate to think my speaking up means her family will be struggling.”
She has agency. She is the one potentially getting her fired and she is the one whose actions may result in her family struggling.
I worked for an abusive, sexist boss who was the sole and exclusive cause of me (and two other women) leaving the company without other jobs lined up. Do not equate yourself with people who behave that way.
BeenThatGuy
I recently had to terminate a staffer member. Their quality of work and attitude were horrible but I still struggled with knowing I was affecting their life in such a negative and impactful way. I repeated endlessly, “It’s business; it’s not personal” until I believed it.
Anon
I once caused our regional HR director to be fired. She told one of my colleagues my salary, which colleague repeated to me – to the penny. I called her boss, he said “I’m sorry but I’m not surprised” and next thing I know, she was gone. I’m certain it was the final nail in the coffin for her. I carry no guilt about this. Someone like that (or your mean girl) is not an asset to the company, and maybe they’ll learn something from it.
LA Law
I am a short-waisted apple so the current fashion for tucked in (or partially tucked in) tops is quite definitely not flattering. I am looking for tops I can wear with dress pants under a blazer that will also look OK if I take the blazer off and are not so long they only look good with a tuck. I prefer something with some sleeve.
Google is failing me. What are my fellow apples/short waisted ‘ettes wearing?
Thanks!
Panda Bear
I find that a big part of tops looking good untucked is in the pants – ideally, flat front, side zip, no belt loops. That way the top doesn’t bunch up on any of those things. Not sure if that’s helpful, but my two cents.
PolyD
I have a top I got from Banana Republic Factory this summer that has an elastic band at the bottom. Maybe something like that? I am a bit short-waisted and don’t love tucking in tops either.
Anon
I find the only tops that look okay untucked are sweaters or something with more structure, not a regular blouse.
Anon
I’m a super short waisted pear and I have the same problem. I have found that pants with a low rise (like right under my belly protrusion, about 2-3 inches below belly button) in the front make me look much more proportional with a tucked-in shirt. That said, I absolutely hate retucking every time I go to the bathroom. I don’t know how people deal with it! My answer to untucked is straight hem tops. I like Lulus and sometimes Lucky Brand and Loft. Lulus does run small (juniors sized). I haven’t found a good source of straight hem silk tops with sleeves yet – if someone has please share!
Anon
Example:
https://www.lulus.com/products/good-luck-charm-black-polka-dot-short-sleeve-button-up-top/1303676.html
anon
Not every trend is for every body. I have a similar body and am not tucking in my tops or wearing crop tops. However, nor am I wearing obviously dated items like long tunic type tops with skinny jeans. If you just wear a normal length top that hits at the top of the hip, and rely on other wardrobe items to be on trend, I think that works better.
LA Law
Agreed that not every trend is for every body! (Which is why I am sitting this out.) I am just struggling in finding tops that are not too long to look good untucked and/or are not too blocky to look good with straighter leg pants.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and if anyone has a source for light weight (for wearing under a blazer) sweaters with a band at the bottom, please let me know. I am usually good at this but flailing for some reason.
Anon
This one! My favorite top under a blazer with slacks! I have it in every color. https://www.jjill.com/product/we-perfect-cap-sleeve-tee?color=801
Anonymous
Dumb question but can someone explain Amex travel rewards to me briefly? Is there an Amex card that is no fee? And if yes do those low or no fee cards still generate the same rewards as the cards that cost hundreds per year? I basically charge everything in life on my credit cards. Over the years I’ve had Citi Thank You Rewards and Citi’s American Airlines card, both were fine. The American card obviously limits your miles to flights on AA or One World. I’m wanting to travel more in the upcoming years but I also expect my budget to be tighter due to a house purchase, so I’d love a card with great travel rewards. I don’t travel a lot but when I do I like to splurge – business class flight upgrades or luxury hotels – though admittedly this doesn’t always happen. Is this the kind of thing Amex cards are good for? Do the rewards work with any airline? I feel like I have friends who always say – oh we got four business class tickets to Spain bc of Amex rewards and I’m unsure how true it is really. Help?
Anon
High fee cards have better rewards of course. Otherwise why would anyone pay for them?
Anne-on
Take a look at the points guy, they clearly break down cost/benefits to different cards. If you travel often and like higher end hotels the AmEx platinum will likely pay for itself between lounge access, the fine hotels and resorts program (basically you get bumped up a level in your hotel, get free breakfast and a hotel credit if you book through their portal). Plus there is a credit towards global entry/precheck.
Chase Sapphire is less costly and still has great benefits. Chase also has a travel portal – I find better deals through their portal than on hotel websites.
Cat
we don’t have an Amex card, but our spending on our $$ airline card turned into 4 free round trips in main cabin this year (one to Europe, one to the Caribbean, and two domestic).
anon
So The Points Guy is the site you need to check out. They have regular features on the value proposition offered by various travel rewards cards. Very generally, though:
– Rewards programs that are not tied to an airline typically let you book travel on any carrier. Amex Membership Rewards points are one example; Chase Ultimate Rewards is another one.
– However, you may get better value choosing the option that lets you convert points to cash back or using points to pay card charges. This is the kind of analysis that The Points Guy is good at, since it will depend on the points to dollar conversion rate for each scenario (booking travel vs. cashback/paying card charges).
– No-fee credit cards generally do not have good rewards programs, because annual fees are part of how banks pay for those programs. (Fees charged to merchants are the other part of how banks pay for the programs.) Most no-fee cards, if they offer rewards, offer cashback rewards only. A few offer points but the points aren’t as universally usable as those associate with premium card programs.
– Virtually all Amex cards have an annual fee; I think they only have two or three no-fee products and the rewards earn rate on those is really low.
Jules
Check out The Points Guy for informaiton on different cards and their rewards programs.
anon
The high-end AmEx travel card ($695 annual fee) gives more points (5x) for airline purchases booked directly with airlines or through AmEx, and 5x points for prepaid hotels booked through AmEx. Those points can be used with AmEx’s transfer partners, which are listed online, but I think include most major airlines if you take into account the alliances. Sometimes you get extra value for transferring points to certain partners. Also, there are often perks that offset the cost of the card–lounge access, elite status with certain chains, statement credits for various purchases, etc.
I think travel cards are great if you already travel a lot, particularly if you travel for business and can get reimbursed and keep the points. But if you’re not spending a lot on travel already, 5x points on travel doesn’t help that much. You might be better off with the $250 AmEx Gold card that gives you 4x points on restaurants and groceries and 3x points on flights.
Chase has good travel cards too. The Chase Sapphire Reserve has a $550 annual fee, but you get a $300 credit for any travel purchases, so its real cost is $250. You get 3x points on travel and 3x points on restaurants (more if you book through Chase). The Chase Sapphire Preferred is $95 and has 3x points on restaurants and 2x points on travel. It also has good rental car insurance.
Many banks have free cash-back cards. I use Fidelity’s card, get 2% cash back on all purchases. The cash back gets automatically deposited into a Fidelity checking account. I highly recommend a free cash-back card if you’re a new homeowner because there are so many expenses associated with home ownership that you do not get extra points for on rewards cards. (But most contractors in my area still have a surcharge that’s more than 2% for credit card purchases, so it’s not usually worth it to pay them with a credit card.) Still, all the Home Depot, Lowes, furniture, and garden store purchases really add up.
Anon
Something that is under appreciated is that your total card spend matters a lot more than your travel spend. Someone who is spending $100k on cards annually is going to see much better reward activity than someone who puts $20k of travel on cards but only $40k total.
Anon
Chapter 13 checking in here. I made my first official payment today. I thought it would feel like I was moving forward (kind of like when I filed), but it hurt my bank account so much that I just feel down. And the monthly payment may even increase – I have my trustee meeting next week and my lawyer already warned me that my trustee’s lawyer will get lost in the weeds with my case and I may end up with higher balance to pay.
I need help with financial literacy. I’m not blaming them for my financial missteps, but my parents didn’t really teach me anything. They dealt with their finances by putting everything on a credit card and paying the balance each month, which does NOT work for me. I don’t know anything about how much to save for retirement, what retirement accounts I even have (multiple 401k accounts with Fidelity from multiple jobs, but no idea whether they are Roth, etc), what/how much I should be saving for outside of 401ks, what the rules are for anything. I have a basic spreadsheet budget that never works out at the end of the month because I overspend on groceries, bathroom/household items, transportation, etc. And things that don’t come up every month (prescription medicine, quarterly car insurance bill) aren’t even on my budget/radar. I just feel really overwhelmed and alone. I feel very financially illiterate from basic budgeting to saving for retirement. I wish I could hand my finances over to a financial planner, but I discovered that costs thousands of dollars.
Anon
So, first things first–let’s pay down that debt! You’re doing great.
Second, if you are just beginning your journey, I really like the Her Money podcast with Jean Chatzky. It has bite-sized episodes on discrete topics.
If you aren’t a big fan of podcasts, you can find a basic Suze Orman book, or Smarch Women Finish Rich, or Get a Financial Life, by Beth Kobiliner.
You can learn about any topic in short form on nerdwallet.
These books will help you start making a budget, but the best way to start with a budget is just to start with a list of known recurring expenses (rent, groceries, utilities, car payment, insurance) and then add in things that happen less frequently (doctor’s co-pays, Rx drugs, toiletries and sundries, holiday presents) as you think of them. At that point you will have a sense of what you are spending.
For a budget to balance, you need to spend less than you earn. So you need to understand what you are spending on that you cannot afford, or that you need to economize on. Maybe that means less eating out, or doing meal planning, or moving to a cheaper apartment. The key is to make the numbers work by adjusting what you had been doing, because that didn’t work.
Also, there are FREE financial planners–you can find out about these on the Her Money Podcast, but their sponsor, Edelman Financial Engines, offers a free consult to anyone, and I am sure they could point you in the right direction. But you need to get in touch with your emotions and spending first and separate needs (roof over head, healthcare) from wants (new shoes, fancy new clothes). Good luck to you.
And last–don’t get overwhelmed! This is a journey, every bit of education and behavior change helps! You’re doing the right thing!
Anon
Borrow “On My Own Two Feet”from your library and read it. Try an envelope system of budgeting. Break quarterly payments into monthly amounts and save to pay them. Since you have a spreadsheet already, you should be able to list all of your expenses out. I’m one who pays everything on my credit card and pay it off every month, but I have a really firm grip on my expenses and costs and income. Your situation sounds really stressful but it’s good you are taking charge of it and learning what you don’t know!
Anon
Go to the library, check out 4-6 books on basic financial literacy and start reading them one by one until you find one that clicks with you. These tend to have a very opinionated style so if you hate the author after a chapter, just try another one. I’ve previously liked Suze Orman’s books (women and money and money book for the young fabulous and broke) and also How to Manage Money When You Don’t Have Any. I can’t stand Dave Ramsey but he’s got some great advice. Good luck!! And keep us updated. I’m rooting for you.
Anon
I love this idea! Check out a bunch and skim until you find one that works for you. No pressure to read one you don’t like just because you paid $25 for it.
Rooting for you too!
And forgive if this is wildly off base, but is there any chance you have ADHD? In adult women, it can present as difficulty organizing, feeling overwhelmed, and being bad with money.
Anon
I do think there’s a chance I have ADHD but not sure where to get started on diagnosing that. I felt that I had it as a kid, but my parents were the ultra religious type to never let me get diagnosed with something like that. I do have anxiety (lifelong and untreated in childhood) and depression (more recent) as well.
Anon
Your PCP! They’re helping you with your depression and anxiety, right? They can help you with this too!
Anon
No! OP should not pay $25 each for a bunch of books. Library! When and if OP find the holy grail of financial literacy books that is worth owning, then buy that one, used.
Anon
It sounds like you have an overly optimistic budget. YNAB (You Need a Budget) may be a very good tool for you.
For non-routine expenses: add up everything and divide by 12. Car insurance, annual Costco membership, medication, copay for any medical or dental visits, excise tax, oil changes, all of it. Make a game of figuring out each and every non-monthly expense and put it into a spreadsheet. Add in a small buffer for emergencies and that is your total “random” annual cost. Divide by 12 and that’s how much you need to save every month.
Figure out what your actual grocery spending is. Keep all receipts for two months. It is important to see what you bought, not just how much you spent. Do you throw food away? Do you meal plan? Do you have a shopping list or do you freelance it? Do you compare your shopping list with the amount of money you have available for groceries?
How are you overspending on transportation? Do you just not have a great idea of how much it costs to own a car and drive?
Anon
You can’t just hand your finances over to a financial planner. If you’re really not breaking even at the end of the month, the solutions are either spend less or make more. Making more is a long term thing but you need to start spending less now. That means that if you need to buy things like bathroom supplies, you get in the habit of looking at your budget for those items before you go shopping, and don’t put anything in the cart that you don’t need. You just don’t spend above your budget. It’s the only way.
If you spend as a way of treating yourself or making yourself feel better, you need to work on that mindset. Find other ways to reward and treat yourself. I understand this because I grew up the way you did, and my parents were like “what the heck, let’s go out to dinner” when times were tough, and they didn’t have the money for it, so it became debt. It’s not a way to live long-term and you need to break the cycle.
Anon
To clarify, I meant I wish I could get 1 on 1 help from a financial planner, because I’ve read various financial blogs and books and nothing seems to stick in my brain.
anonshmanon
I just want to give some encouragement and cheer you on to keep looking for a system that works for you! I am so proud of you for taking matters into your own hands, that goes both for filing chapter 13, and also for recognizing that you need to change something in order to not find yourself here again soon. Admitting that you don’t have an important skill, especially when there is soooo much stigma and unspoken rules around money, takes a lot of courage. You are so ahead of the curve, I have no doubt that you will find a suitable method if you keep going!
Anon
I really appreciate the encouragement!
Anon
Re: your multiple 401ks with Fidelity, Fidelity (and Vanguard and Alight) just announced a new service called auto-portability that can roll all the prior the balances into your current 401k without you jumping through the insanely difficult paperwork previously required. I don’t know if it’s live yet, so call Fidelity and ask. (There might be a limit that the accounts have no more than $5k in them.)
https://newsroom.fidelity.com/press-releases/news-details/2022/Americas-Leading-401k-Providers–Retirement-Clearinghouse-Collaborate-to-Implement-a-Nationwide-Network-for-Auto-Portability/default.aspx
Senior Attorney
I paid off six figures of debt 20 years ago using Mary Hunt’s program from her book Debt Proof Living. She also has a web s!te with calculators to help. It’s old news now but I still thing she has a great system and I still use it.
Anon
I think you might benefit from using an envelope system, where you have a set amount each month for each category and you can’t spend more than that. One thing that worked for me was to take all my expenses for the year and work a budget around that, so that I was setting aside money for insurance (as an example) every month and it wasn’t a surprise when the bill came due in September.
Seafinch
Agreed. Forecasting doesn’t work for lots of people but only spending what you have is pretty fool proof. I did it for years following Gail Vaz Oxladr then YNAB. Start each pay day and just allocate.
Cocktail Machine
Does anyone here own a Bartesian? I love the occasional cocktail after work, but whenever I buy the ingredients to make something specific, I end up wasting a lot of juice / mixer or have a giant bottle of a particular liqueur leftover. I’m intrigued by the idea of using Keurig like pod so I can have variety when the mood strikes, but am curious if the drinks actually taste good. Would love to hear if anyone here has one or has tried the cocktails before!
Anon
I did not know this was a thing and I am fascinated!
Anon
OMG stop! On my way to purchase one of these stat!
Anne-on
So I haven’t tried the Bartesian, but have you looked into pre-mixed cocktails they sell at liquor stores? I’m in the same boat (I enjoy 1-2 cocktails but don’t need or want a fully stocked at home bar). I like the ‘on the rocks’ brand, they have ‘nip’ sizes as well as a medium size that is about 3-5 drinks (I’m a lightweight and make them smaller drinks). The spicy jalapeno margarita is good and so is the cosmo!
Senior Attorney
+1,000,000 to On The Rocks premixed cocktails. DIVINE, I tell you!
Anon
This looks like that juicer that ended up just squeezing smoothies out of a pouch.
Cocktail Machine
So Juicero was my first thought too, but I like that you can pick your own alcohol to use and that it does the measuring and mixing (so adding more value that just squeezing a pouch). Although you bring up a good point I could try ordering the pods first and mixing myself to see if I like the flavors before buying the whole machine. Hmm…
Annony
Milk Street is doing a whole series on Tik Tok on making “freezer door cocktails” … basically, a batch that you can store in the freezer and just pour one out whenever you want!
Anon
For almost $400 plus pods that are $2 each, just buy the mixers (in small glass bottles, not the sugar filled stuff in big plastic bottles) from a good liquor store or a distillery. Woodford Reserve has several quite good ones.
Anonymous
I love cocktails, had never heard of and will never by a Bartesian. I get the idea, but I did not find a single cocktail in their list that I want to try where I don’t already have most of the ingredients.
I think that if you want to explore tastes, going to a great bar is the thing. At home, hard spirits and liqueurs – which keep forever – basic citrus and the occasional cream or fruit juice goes a long way.
I think that for the at home experiments, I’d let your bar stock decide what makes sense to try.
But if it makes sense to you – go for it! I use up my liqueurs on guests for experimental drinks, but I get your feeling of “that was meh, and a waste of money to buy”.
And you’re wondering – creme violette for an Aviation cocktail (there is a pod) is worth the investment.
Anon
Narrow down your options. If you like sours (margaritas, daiquiris etc) then all you really need is the spirit, the sweetener (agave nectar or Cointreau) and a fresh lime. Maybe a lemon. Nothing to go bad.
My husband likes tiki drinks so he buys the little dole pineapple juice cans that are I think 4-6 ounces. He doesn’t use the whole thing in the cocktail, even if he can talk me into one, but he drinks the rest of the juice with breakfast.
I would just start with fruit for the juices, they’ll taste better anyway.
pugsnbourbon
When I find myself with too many bottles, I take it as a sign to have a party :)
Cocktail Maker
Thanks all for the helpful comments and suggestions! I appreciate them all.
And re: the creme de violette, that was actually a bottle I was thinking of! Bought it after trying an Aviation and realize it will last forever a tsp at a time…
Anon
I am curious about what doctor I should see for the following:
A few weeks ago I had intermittent severe back pain (lower right back, very debiliating). I went to the doctor (OneMedical) twice in two weeks. They gave me muscle relaxants and put me on a course of advil/tylenol. Then a week later (so approximately two weeks in) I went to an urgent care. They ruled out bladder/kidney infections.
My abdomen is now distended and I have abdominal pain as well. It is localized in the front right corner of my abdomen.
I don’t have a PCP, my gyn is awesome. I already had my appendix out decades ago.
Do I find an internist? At this point, I feel like my insides are not right, this is not just back pain, and I am not sure what kind of doctor to see to get me the help I need–I want to get to the root cause, not just treat symptoms.
Any advice appreciated – OneMedical and Urgent Care have not been the answer!
Anonymous
A gastroenterologist. Had you not already had your appendix out, I’d be worried about appendicitis. Possibly gallstones? And maybe the ER if it gets worse.
Cat
I’d try the gyn first since you have a relationship. Abdominal pain is tricky. An ovary may be the source?
Anne-on
+1 – I’d call your gyn and ask for an appointment ASAP. This sounds like it could be a twisted ovary or a cyst and those both can be dangerous if they rupture.
anon
I just had an ovarian torsion that started with exactly the same symptoms and it turns out an ovary was enlarged and I was experiencing “intermittent torsion”–ask for an ultrasound to see if your ovaries are large/have a large cyst. I had to get the ovary removed and the actual torsion was extremely painful and traumatic, so rule that out if you can!
Anon
Do urgent cares not do ultrasound? Did they rule out ovarian cyst?
Anon
About eighteen months ago I had severe intermittent pain in my lower abdomen and back. After a few weeks I finally went to urgent care, thinking I had a gynecological problem like an ovarian torsion. But there, they diagnosed me with a kidney stone. Classically, kidney stones present with severe pain around the kidneys, but as they make their way down from the kidneys, they can cause severe, intermittent pain in the lower abdomen.
With any doctor, ask if they can check you for a kidney stone.
Anon
Abdominal pain can be a million different things, which is why you want a PCP. They can rule out the most severe things, order bloodwork and imaging, and make referrals to different specialists as needed. In this case, that would most likely be gyn, GI, urology, orthopedics or PT, or some other organ specialist. It also could just be random pain with no easily identifiable or fixable cause (actually pretty common). When it’s truly an emergency you can go to the ER or urgent care, but a PCP will generally handle this better in a nonemergent situation.
Anon
I’d definitely keep escalating. I agree with going to your gyn who knows you. Going to Urgent Care and One Medical where you don’t have a PCP & having pain-only symptoms is similar to an opioid-seeking pattern and I think that may be why they’ve been somewhat dismissive. I’m not saying you’re opioid seeking, I’m saying that may be what they’re thinking you are.
Anon
Yeah–I am definitely not seeking opoids–I’m allergic to them. But I appreciate all the advice and will keep asking! Thanks for everyone for chiming in! Tomorrow I make appointments!
anon
Another bathroom decor question (different poster). I recently completely redid the larger bathroom in my house, and I’m regretting some of my selections (should have gone with a darker floor and not white grout, for example, but I’m not going to change that now). The bathroom is very white, almost so that it looks like an airport bathroom. I’m toying with the idea of doing one wall in a fun wallpaper, even though I know that risks getting dated in a few years. It’s just such a boring stark room right now. Any suggestions?
The other option is to paint all the walls (they’re currently white), but wallpaper seems more fun.
BeenThatGuy
If you don’t want to paint or go through the hassle of wallpaper, bringing in texture is really important. Think seagrass accessories for wastebasket, cotton ball holder or tissue cover. Linens with a pattern, even if they are white. Same thing for throw rugs. Also, plants.
Anonymous
And some wood accessories.
Anon
Use peel and stick wallpaper. Lots of quality options available.
Anon
Do not do this, it doesn’t last like regular paper and destroys your walls in the process. Go all the way and do real paper.
Anonymous
Add to the white.
Non-white towels
Non-white towel racks and laundry basket
Non-white soap and toothbrush holder
Non-white mirror frame
Anon
I google imaged “white bathroom” to see how people break it up and what I’m finding is – natural wood, brass/gold hardware, and greenery like a bathroom-tolerant plant (fern) or a fake plant/flowers. Straw baskets would work too.
My bathroom in my 1909 house is also all white/chrome as it’s authentic to the period, but I did paint un-tiled areas of the walls a very pale yellowish green to break it up. Depends on what colors go with the rest of your house. Whether it’s a bedroom or a hallway that opens into the bathroom, choose a harmonious color with that room for flow. My bedroom is sort of a warm sage-y green, and the light yellowy green in my bathroom is on the same paint color strip, just at the very lightest end. (I’m describing this badly, they’re not really all that yellowish, I’m just trying to differentiate them from blue-leaning greens like aqua and turquoise)
Sunshine
Favorite purse organizer? I have a larger (not huge) tote where everything falls to the bottom and then the bottom isn’t flat. So I want the organizational and structural features that a purse organizer can provide. I prefer not to buy from Am@zon, but I will if necessary.
CapHillAnon
I got two from Grommet last year and one of them is perfect for my medium / large tote. The company offered one in a felt-like fabric, which looked great but I didn’t like because things stuck to it. I kept the unattractive nylon one. It’s light-weight and has one large divider and many pockets. Good luck.
Anon
The Cuyana one is good, if heavy (I think the good ones are all pretty heavy) but I don’t know whether it will fit your existing bag.
Anon.
Agreed. And yes, if your gyn can’t get you in, then go to the ER. Please take this seriously and it sounds like you are. A friend of mine was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in the Emergency Room with similar symptoms. That doesn’t mean that’s the case here, but it’s worth being vocal about getting seen by a doctor who will take you seriously.
Anon
What is going on if someone keeps using my first name, Deborah, in a tense work convo with a colleague. Every sentence, Deborah, I’m talking to you, Deborah, I usually like you Deborah, but I think you’re out of line, Deborah. B the end, it was a bit louder in volume, like DEBORAH.
I intensely dislike it, but I cannot put my finger on why. Vaguely, it seems like a power play (think of how you might be in an exam room in the paper gown and the doctor calls you Deborah and you don’t even know the doctor’s first name, so you can’t reply with “Tim,” which would be all sorts of weird and familiar).
Vicky Austin
I share your intense dislike; sounds like a weird verbal quirk OR a man trying to create the power play dynamic you describe.
Anon
Ha — of course it is a man. Has to be a man doing this.
Anon
Haha yes, I replied below using John as an example. It never once occurred to me that it might be a woman!
Anon
It’s a power play. Respond in the same manner. I’m listening, John. I don’t think I’m out of line, JOHN.
Anon
ooh, and another one. I’m sorry you feel that way, John.
Generally a non-apology I can’t stand, but in this case, JOHN deserves it.
Vicky Austin
No need to take it personally, JOHN.
Anon
I’ll take that under advisement, JOHN.
Anon
If you know this persons first name and he (of course it’s a he) uses your first name in this intimate and threatening way to communicate- do it back to him. I find men back off a bit, and the dynamic is broken or evened out quite a bit when I can reply back with a cheery “yes D*ck, I see“. Let them know I am not putting up with their treatment of me. Know your audience for this: may not want to use on a boss, but a colleague might be just fine.
I have an acquaintance who will sometimes greet me with “girl” as in hey girl! I always respond with Hey boy! And it at the very least makes me smile. I’m an adult woman, not a girl, so address me as such or I’ll return the favor on your attempts to infantilize me.
anon
To any of the SCOTUS knowledgeable folks – is a one sentence denial like that normal or is there context to understand here?
Anon
It’s normal wording for a denial like that.
Anon
And the one-sentence denial is also totally normal