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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This inexpensive, swingy dress has Friday written all over it. I like the three-quarter-length sleeves, which provide a little extra coverage on a chilly fall morning, and the flattering A-line cut. The contrasting dot pattern is subtle, but still fun.
Add some tights and boots and you’ve got an easy, office-ready outfit without much effort.
The dress is on sale for $28 at Kohl’s and comes in sizes S–XL.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Leatty
For those of you with more formal dress codes (one step down from a full suit), what shoes are you planning to wear to work this fall and winter?
After two years of WFH and a baby, none of my old shoes fit or feel up to date.
KJ
pointy-toed pumps. Avoiding almond/round toes but otherwise unchanged from 2019.
A
Ferragamo pointy toe flats. Or Varas.
Anon
Loafers, oxfords, and block heels
Cat
not always formal, but for Big Meetings I’m wearing pointed-toe shoes (heels, block heels, or flats).
When sorting through my Office Shoes upon return this year, the round-toe styles of heels (the last pairs I was still wearing from 2010-era purchases) immediately looked too cutesy and dated.
Anon
I got rid of so many shoes when I returned to the office a couple months ago!
Anonanon
Similar side question – are you all commuting in one pair of shoes and changing into pointy toed heels/flats at the office?
Cat
yes 100%, I commute in cute sneakers, driving mocs, or rain boots.
Anne-on
It’s about 50/50 for me – in truly cold/gross weather I will 100% change shoes, otherwise the walking part of my commute is short enough that wearing flats/low block heels isn’t too onerous. I also simply don’t wear crazy expensive (over $200) shoes or boots for work and the days of wearing crazy high heels are well behind me.
Anon
Always. I walk/bus to work.
Clementine
I don’t wear heels on my commute in. I will wear my wedge heeled Blonde booties or driving Mocs on a very casual day (rose gold driving Mocs, Taryn Rose brand, they’re great), but the older I get the more likely I am to wear a pair of AllBirds for my commute.
Anon
When I go into the office I have a 10-15 minute walk so I am 100% changing shoes when I get there.
Anon
Yes, 100%. It really lengthens the life of my shoes.
Anonie
Squared toes for dressy flats, heels, and boots seemed to be big last winter and (I hope, since I now own a couple pairs!) are still going strong. I like a more soft square look because, to me, they read slightly less harsh and less overtly trendy. Sam Edelman has some attractive options. And I don’t own them so cannot vouch for quality or comfort but the Tory Burch Georgia ballet flats look so pretty in pictures online.
Anonie
I also love pointy toes but just wanted to mention another option!
Anon
I have wide feet, and the square toe options are a life saver.
Anonymous
I cannot wear pointy toes. They are far too painful for the way my feet are structured. I am wearing mainly loafers. I also continue to wear rounded toe pumps with a low block heel. I think they are classic. However, I work in government and my office is decidedly not fashion-forward :)
Anon
Pointy toes shouldn’t be any more painful than round toes if you’re wearing the right side. Your foot doesn’t go into the pointy part.
Z
They can still be narrower. I have large bunions on both feet and can’t do pointy toe at all.
Anon
Pointy toe shoes do not work for every foot – even when sized up. And personally, I tend to trip over the empty “point” if I size up enough that my foot fits comfortably.
Anon
I wore pre-covid oxfords recently, and they were too tight and tore up my heels. I did gain the covid 15, and apparently it’s in my feet as well!
Clementine
Okay, so – my theory is that I just wore Birkenstocks and sneakers for 2 years so now I’m just less tolerant of tight shoes. I had this happen with some old heels – not sure how I dealt with them on a regular basis! I’ve found that going up 1/2 size and adding some inserts is much more comfortable at this point.
Anonymous
Your feet might be larger now! Mine grew half a size at one point and it had nothing to do with pregnancy. My kid was 12. Birks and sneakers are more forgiving on sizing than dress shoes so you might not have noticed.
Anon
Flats all the way. All summer I rotated through a few different loafers and for winter I like a chelsea or chukka boot, and am looking to add in some oxfords.
Marshmallow
Yes, pointy toed Ferragamos. Or loafers. I commute in boots and keep my nice shoes in a desk drawer. I never seem to be able to make ballet or pointy-toed flats work with winter outfits, they just look too “light,” like they don’t balance out the outfit, and they don’t look good with tights or hose. I also have a pair of low-heel, pointy-toed, scrunchy ankle boots that dresses outfits down but still feels nice enough for the office, so I wear those if true high heels don’t feel right but flats don’t look right.
Redux
What is your go-to t-shirt to wear under a blazer? I need something with thicker material to wear to work than my casual cotton tees but all of my usual brands are coming up thin. Maybe t-shirt is not the right descriptor, but something I can wear with a blazer separate (not a full suit) that is a step up from the slubbier/thinner tshirts currently occupying my shirt drawer. What am I looking for?
Panda Bear
Ugh, this kind of top is always such a challenge for me to find as well. This time of year, I go with lightweight merino or cashmere tee shirt style sweaters (slim fit with a crew/scoop/vneck). My current favorites are from Lands End and Talbots.
Anon
I LOVE a short sleeved sweater and they’re surprisingly hard to find. They’re nice enough to wear without a blazer when I get hot.
Anon
Quince has some cashmere ones that are decent.
Anne-on
I stalk Brooks Brothers for their merino/cashmere shells or sweaters and typically buy 1-2 a year in basic colors (camel, black, berry, navy). I run more cold than hot so I’ll often wear the thin long sleeved sweaters under a blazer in the winter, and the shells are sedate enough that I don’t feel out of place taking my blazer off if I need too. Talbots typically has good options too. I used to order from Ann Taylor but too many of their offerings are viscose or weird blends that seem to trap smells and don’t breathe wel.
Shelle
I buy Banana Republic t shirts like their current “luxe touch”. They’re styled with blazers in their photos. They hold up well for me and the fabric is a little nicer.
anon
Club Monaco Perfect Tee. Be very honest with yourself about what size you are as it runs tight.
No Face
This time of year I love short sleeve sweaters. Fit well under a blazer but look completely appropriate by themselves. Work with formal pants or skirts, but jeans too.
In the summer, I wore silk.
ALT
Ann Taylor has a “sweater tee” that I like for this. It’s not really a sweater but also not a jersey tee, kind of a mix of the two?
Anon
Uniqlo Ucrew tshirts! They are a thicker cotton – I have the white one and it is truly opaque. Planning to get more. The catch is that they are only available in this round neck that is quite high (AFAIK):
https://www.uniqlo.com/us/en/products/E424873-000/00?colorDisplayCode=00&sizeDisplayCode=001&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=3Q_Google_Performance_Max&gclid=CjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaCsLQsgL7ZevqJWR6G1j8m6P7LNv3fRsXVBXW-3rY6u9MgxfbppJYBoCBt8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
anon.
Universal Standard.
MagicUnicorn
I swiped some of my daughter’s recently rejected Old Navy basic v-neck tees from her end of summer to-donate pile and have been pleasantly surprised with how much of a workhorse they are in my own wardrobe. They are a smooth fabric and not slubby, probably a higher synthetic percentage than cotton, thick enough not to be see-through, and are a more fitted style. I don’t believe she wore them at all since I bought them for her and I think I can get one year of wear out of them for work, then will demote them to weekend wear once they start fading.
pugsnbourbon
The Old Navy “luxe” line looks pretty good under sweaters or blazers. They drape nicely, too.
Anon
Talbots pima cotton bateau neck tee is the holy grail. It has 3/4 sleeves, so no fighting with blazer sleeves. It’s thick and good quality and looks nice if you take the blazer off. I love them. Real workhorses in my wardrobe.
highlander
I like the Uniqlo Supima cotton t-shirts too. Nobody wants to hear this but for wearing to the office, the neckline on a cotton t-shirt looks vastly better after ironing.
Anon.
LL Bean Pima Cotton T-Shorts are what you are looking for. Smooth and soft, totally opaque even in white, and come in a variety of sleeve lengths, neck styles and tons of different solid colors.
I’ve owned some of these shorts for 5+ years without the color fading or the shirts loosing shape.
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/514124?page=womens-pima-cotton-tees
Anon.
*Shirts
(How I wish there was an edit button.)
Anon
Thanks for the rec, I just ordered these!
Anon
Ribbed cotton tee shirts, I have a couple from Uniqlo from prior seasons that are workhorses.
Grace
I like the J.Crew Perfect-fit short-sleeve T-shirts (crew, scoop, square neck). They are a thicker cotton and have a bit longer sleeves than many other short-sleeve Ts.
Jules
Someone posted yesterday about the J. Jill wearever perfect cap-sleeve tee and it looks really nice; I like a v-neck, though.
anon
I just got tees from the Gap for exactly this purpose and they’re perfect. The shrunken tee, and I got my true size in a “long” style—it hits at the perfect spot (not at all cropped but not too long to wear with high waisted jeans )
Anon8
I finally opened the door with my parents to talk about aging/end of life wishes and then it’s like my mind went blank. They told me their funeral wishes but otherwise I completely forgot what I wanted to talk through. What questions should I discuss with them?? They’re in their early sixties now, so there’s hopefully lots of time left, but I want to make sure we’re ahead of things.
Anon
https://theconversationproject.org/
Anon8
Thank you!!
anon
This website looks great. Make sure you ask specifically what physical limitations your parents would not want to live with (being in a wheelchair, being blind, unable to use a toilet or use a toilet alone, etc). Find out whether they want to be buried, cremated, or donate their body to science and any relevant details. Apparently my dad wants to be buried like an Egyption pharaoh with his sports gear and dead cat’s ashes. I only discovered this because we had an in depth conversation about his burial wishes.
Anonymous
People’s preferences can change when they are actually faced with the reality of living with an impairment v. death.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/03/opinion/advance-directives-death.html
Senior Attorney
This is so true! My mom, in her 60s and 70s, always said “put me in a home, lock me up and throw away the key! I don’t want to be a bother!” Then when she in fact couldn’t live independently, she fought me every step of the way, refused to make a plan for anything other than living alone with my dad, and complained bitterly about the assisted living place I found for her until the day she died.
Anon
Just remember that their expressed wishes now really only go into effect if they reach the point where they are unable to make and express their own decisions. Being in a wheelchair, being blind, unable to use a toilet or use a toilet alone are not things necessarily accompanied by any loss of mental function so it will their choice whether to live with them when the time comes. And as people have pointed out, it is a lot easier for relatively healthy people to declare they would not want to live like that before it actually happens and they realize that none of them prevent them from wanting to live.
anon.
My dad gave me the greatest gift – a shared google document with all of both of my parents’ accounts, passwords, who to contact about life insurance, where family photos are located, any retirement accounts, names of their lawyers, etc. I have never really looked at it but I have it in case I need it, as I’ll be the one dealing with everything (truthfully my mom is not capable of it). If you believe they are capable of that, it is a start.
Anon8
Thank you! Good specifics to think about.
NYCer
Great advice. I am a T&E lawyer, and we recommend this to our clients.
Curious
except don’t put your passwords in a Google doc! there’s got to be a more secure solution.
NYCer
I just meant tell someone your passwords, where to find important documents, who your lawyers are, etc. You can do it in any manner you wish.
Anon
I think that concern is overblown especially with aging parents. It’s better to have the info accessible than worry about a random hacker getting that excel sheet (that’s unlikely anyway).
anonshmanon
yeah, don’t all parents in the word have imminently hackable passwords like appletree100 ? Or is that just my parents, in-laws and landlady?
Of Counsel
My 75 year old father is a retired computer software engineer who had a top secret clearance when he was working so no – not “all parents” have easily hackable passwords.
And in my mid-50s I have a daughter who is probably around the same age as many of the posters on this site, I will add that as a practicing attorney with more than a passing understanding of data privacy, I also have passwords that cannot easily be hacked – although I confess I do re-use the same one for my non-sensitive accounts (I do not really care if someone else wants to pay my water bill!)
Anonymous
AARP has good resources for this
Anon
I’m going to NYC with my husband for the weekend in a few weeks to celebrate my 40th birthday, and am hoping for some wardrobe help.
We are:
-Going to an opera at the Met
-Having drinks (The Plaza? The Empire Hotel rooftop?)
-Walking around Central Park/UWS
-Spending a large part of one day at a museum or two
I’d like to have fun with my outfit for the opera, and figure you can’t necessarily overdress for an evening show there. Can anyone share their experiences there? Other places listed their dress code as ‘smart casual.’ My style tends to either be very casual or office wear, so looking to strike the balance. Items I have to work with include: a black sweater dress, faux black leather pants from The Gap, a silky dark gray tank and some longer black and black sparkly dresses. Still have time to shop, so appreciate any insight and/or recommended activities! Haven’t been to NYC in 15 years, so this is a special weekend.
Anonymous
Rainbow Room? Monkey Bar? Mandarin Oriental? I’ve always wanted to have drinks at the Pierre but never have. Love the restaurant Marea on CPS.
anon
You haven’t missed much at the Pierre, FWIW – that bar is pretty characterless.
highlander
Maybe thinking of the King Cole bar at the St. Regis? Or Bemmelmans at the Carlyle?
Smokey
I haven’t been to the Met in several years, but what I recall is almost anything goes, from jeans to formal evening wear. I would suggest something in between- a nice dress or your black leather pants with a stylish top. Some sparkle is fine. It’s a chance to dress up in something you love that makes the night feel special. For walking around Central Park, and museums, it’s all about comfort. Most people will be in jeans, sweaters and boots. Make sure your boots are comfortable, and you are dressed for the weather. It could be cold and rainy, and you’ll want to be comfortable walking a lot. Have a great time!
Anon
NY is a dressy city, I’d go with your sparkly dresses for the Opera because why not? Don’t leave your fun stuff in the closet waiting for an occasion to be worn. My favorite thing about big cities is the fashion, anything goes, you wear what feels good and right to you. And you can’t really overdress for the opera either. Have fun!
Anon
PS – I also have a few pairs of the Gap’s fake leather jeans and love them for walking around w sneakers, they’re warmer than regular jeans so you cut the chill and they look chic if you switch to a heel for dinner. I’d do that for your museum days and a casual dinner.
Anon
Hmmm, as a frequent opera goer, I disagree. You can overdress for the opera. People see society page pics of opening night and think that’s normal opera dress but it’s not. That’s just opening night.
You don’t wear a tuxedo or a taffeta gown to the opera for a normal performance. Yes to dressing up (though you don’t have to) but no to the bridesmaid dress you thought you’d never wear again. Leave it in the closet.
Anonymous
+1 – Yeah I work at a theatre and this is just wrong. Opening night is wildly different than an average performance. A lot of people will be coming from work, so business attire (and all the variations that involves) is fairly common, but you can definitely wear jeans.
Anon
I just fundamentally disagree with this take. I like to live like the main character in a movie, I wear my clothes and if a place remotely supports dressing up, I do it. I don’t care if most people are fine with boring slacks and a blouse. Life is short. Wear the clothes and don’t take yourself so seriously.
Anon
I mean you do you, but this is similar to wearing a ball gown to the office, and I’m embarrassed for you already.
AIMS
You can definitely overdress for an evening at the opera unless it is something like opening night, the new year’s eve show, etc. That doesn’t mean some people don’t still dress up in a gown but it’s definitely the exception, not the rule. That’s also not to say don’t dress up at all and certainly have fun with it, but I just wouldn’t go overboard if you’re picturing a Pretty Woman type situation. I think black leather pants and a silky blouse or a nice lux cashmere or embellished type sweater would work well for a lot of what you have in mind, esp. with some evening jewelry for the dinners/opera. Obviously bring comfy shoes.
Anon
But who cares if you overdress? There’s no fashion police coming to say too many sparkles. Why not get out there and wear your clothes and have a little fun?
Anonymous
This. I would totally wear evening dress to the Met just for the chance to use it.
Anon
OP cares. That’s why she’s asking.
Yes, it is possible to overdress for the opera.
NYCer
+1. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most people are quite casual at the Met opera these days. Plenty of people will be in jeans for example. AIMS suggestion for an outfit is a good one. The sweater dress would also be fine. I would personally not wear a sparkly dress, but YMMV.
NYCer
And some other suggestions…
If you have interest in going to MOMA, you could get a drink before or after at Chandelier Bar at the Baccarat Hotel. It is beautiful in there. The lounge and the Mandarin Oriental is also worth considering for drinks. It has a spectacular view of Central Park looking toward the UES. Pre-covid, I used to always take my out of town visitors there (haven’t been back since they re-opened, but I assume it is still good). You might also want to consider going downtown one night for dinner. Restaurants are a bit more hip (that is coming from someone who lives uptown!). I would probably pick somewhere in the West Village.
For walking in the park and the UWS, or walking around a museum, I would go with jeans and “fashion” sneakers. The weather is variable right now (it will be close to 70 this weekend, but mid 50s next week, and obviously colder at night), so I recommend layers.
Anon
I agree with this. I haven’t been to the opera yet but I’ve been to a ton of Ballets at Lincoln center and Broadway shows. I would feel so out of place in a glitzy fancy dress. Maybe a nice black dress with heels and over the top jewelry.
Trish
I would rather see someone in a prom dress than people who have so little respect for the theatre that they show up in jeans. The refusal to dress up for ANYTHING makes me so sad as an older GenX.
Anonymous
Honestly theatre workers and artists do not care, they just want you to come see the show, pay attention to what they are doing on stage (TURN OFF YOUR PHONE), wear a mask if that is the rule, and keep coming back. That is how audiences show respect, not through fancy clothes. I cannot stress enough how much of a financial crisis COVID has been for performing arts organizations. The Met had serious financial problems even before the pandemic, and then their income tanked. When everyone reopened last year, expenses rebounded to pre-pandemic levels, but income has not, and many arts organizations are running huge deficits. Last year the SVOG program bailed many of us out, but that’s over and income is still depressed. Theaters of all kinds really just need butts in seats right now. I think the fact that it performing arts in general become more casual and therefore feels more accessible to a lot of people, especially younger people, is actually a very good thing.
Anne-on
That sounds so fun, enjoy! If you’re at all into shopping for anything in particular I’d try to set aside time for that too, one of the best parts of NYC is there are specialty stores/flagship stores for everything from spices, housewares, candy, books, perfume, makeup, bags, jewelry, and more. I would also suggest treating yourself to a blowout ahead of the opera – the DryBar/Blo ladies do a much better job than I can ever manage to!
Maybe also do tea at Bergdorfs? The view of central park from that space is incredible.
anon
I think the sweater dress would be fine for the opera.
Anon
Not NYC, but here’s my anecdata. I have a subscription to the Boston Symphony, and people wear jeans all the time. But wear whatever you like! I usually wear black pants and a sweater or the like. I’ve seen a few people in gowns. If it makes you feel good, go for it.
Anon
OP here-thanks all, really appreciate the suggestions! And the feedback that the Met will likely be on the more casual side; I’ll save the sparkly dress for a holiday/special performance in the future. I fear I’d be self-conscious otherwise as much as I’d like to rock it.
Anon
I also highly recommend the rooftop of the Peninsula Hotel, The Bowery Hotel and Bemelmans Bar for drinks and jazz music.
Senior Attorney
The Loeb Boathouse in Central Park is fun for brunch. Highly recommend the mac n cheese if you like that kind of thing.
Z
I had heard the boathouse was closing, but because of your suggestion, I googled it and found out it isn’t! A secret donor gave the owners $6M to save it.
Nora
I work in a consulting company, in a subgroup of Department A.
There have been a lot of changes to Department A over the last couple years, including the types of work we do, the exact clients, etc. I’ve been here for about a year and the manager who hired me has left.
For a while now the higher ups have been worrying that my subgroup doesn’t have enough hours / have enough work. I’ve been doing a lot to fix that for myself and my direct report, which has been recognized. My manager has also told me that its not really only my responsibility to make sure I have enough hours, in my company thats my boss’ job.
Anywho, yesterday a long time employee in my subgroup was let go. They said it was because his skillset didn’t match what the company did anymore. His work will be distributed to me and my direct report. My manager and the HR director reassured me repeatedly that I shouldn’t worry about anything, that they are “impressed by my initiative” and looking at the numbers now it made sense to lay off that person and there’s no need to lay anyone off now.
Should I still be worried? Some members of my companies upper management just don’t like to give bad news so it’s made me wary. I did talk to another person at my level/slightly senior and she thought I had nothing to worry about at all and that I have specialized skills few other people at the firm have etc.
Anon
Yes you should be worried. I’d freshen up that resume and start looking while you still have a job.
Anon
+1
FormerlyPhilly
Always be ready to transition to another job/organization. I don’t believe anything managers/bosses or HR says.
No Face
+1. I literally never stop looking at job posts.
Anon
+1 to this. This is the new reality. We all need to be ready to move at any time. Signed, someone who got laid off in August after repeatedly being assured that despite clear evidence of trouble in the financials, everything was fine, there was no reason to worry and the company “really valued what I was bringing to the table.” Thank goodness I had already been applying for jobs, and had already interviewed at the company where I’m now working – meant a much shorter stint on unemployment than maybe I would have experienced.
Anon
At one of my husband’s former companies, there were persistent layoff rumors. The head of office pulled the entire office staff together not once but twice over the course of a week to reassure all staff that it was business as usual and that the layoff rumors were unfounded.
One hour after the second gathering, people’s emails stopped working, one by one. And one by one, they were called into a conference room with the head of office and an HR rep and given severance paperwork that had clearly been in the works for at least a few weeks, if not months. (Some of it was dated three weeks prior.)
Never believe management. Head of office knew, he just didn’t want to miss one minute of productivity before the layoffs.
Anon
I would job hunt. They may be doing the corporate thing of looking for your replacement while you’re employed for continuity of business.
I feel like if they wanted you to stay, they would have had a conversation about the long term strategy for your department going forward and how you in particular fit into it.
Anon
Yes you should be worried. Sounds like your group doesn’t have a solid business model and, more importantly, that is how it is perceived — which is VERY hard to shift. Even if you keep your job now you’ll likely always be a target if the company needs to trim down either for layoffs or loss of resources. You could wait it out and see what happens but personally I’d get ahead of it and see if you can switch departments internally or move out.
Anon
Wishing friendships could be more like dating, with more honesty about whether you actually want to be friends with someone or not. Context: early 40s partnered woman with tween kids. Think I’m generally pretty nice, funny/smart and can also be not everyone’s cup of tea, necessarily. I’ve tried to keep up with some former coworkers who I used to socialize with pretty frequently/other folks who I felt always had interesting and fun conversations with at parties and gathering pre-pandemics, but have found that when I ask if they’d like to go for a walk/out to coffee/get a drink (solo or in a group) there are often enthusiastic replies but no follow-through or canceled plans.
I guess what I’m trying to strike the balance of is, socializing as busy, parenting working adults is hard, and so to some degree you have to be persistent to actually end up getting together, but then it also seems like a case of “they’re just not that into you” but are being polite. So, just accept that I am lucky to have 4-5 close friends and that my social life just doesn’t really include broader circles or bigger gatherings (I deeply miss those pre-pandemic parties in which you could catch up with people you like but don’t hang out with 1:1) Random observation: so much of friendship these days and what separates a close friend from an acquaintance is texting; like how often you’re interacting in between in-person gatherings.
Anonymous
I wonder about this too. I heard a so called friendship expert say that a key point in making and keep friends is to assume people like you and go from there. When someone does not follow up with me I automatically assume they don’t like me or think I dull or something. Secretly I do worry that people don’t like me. Maybe more my low self esteem or depression then truth, but how do you know?
Anon
I think in some ways friendships are easier than dating because you can have more of them in your life. Different people for different things, and deeper levels of engagement with some while others can be social/work/party friends.
My advice: Take what these people are showing you at face value. Enthusiastic texts mean nothing if there’s no follow-through. I give people 1-2 chances, but if there is no consistent follow-through I accept that it’s not going to happen and move on. Whether it means that they don’t actually like me or they’re just too busy doesn’t really matter. And in that it’s just like dating. Try not to take it personally and move on to the next. Eventually you will click with someone who wants the same things from a friendship and it’ll actually move to the next level.
As for canceled plans: most people are flaky, but not all. Look for the ones who actually initiate plans, show up, and check in. I promise you they’re out there! Someone is out there looking for a friend just like you.
S
This. It is like dating in that it doesn’t really matter the reason they don’t want to go out with you (busy, connection etc.), they don’t want to go out with you so try 1-2 times and move on. I had to accept that some very close friend long-time colleagues were not going to stay in touch once I changed fields. It was painful but no point in continuing to reach out.
Anonymous
Depends on how people say no. ‘Sorry, can’t make that date.’ – I’m gonna issue maybe one more invite then let it go. ‘Sorry I can’t make that date, let me know if the date changes and keep me in the loop on the next get together.’ – I’m gonna assume this person has a genuine interest and continue to follow up.
And as a mom of 3, cultivate friends who don’t have kids. They tend to make and stick to plans better. And you can’t be offended if people say no. Everyone has a lot going on.
anon
I’ve been missing parties and larger gatherings since before the pandemic. My local friends all coupled up in their mid twenties and completely lost interest in anything beyond a small group hang. So this phenomenon isn’t just related to kids or covid. Commiseration here- I really miss seeing people who I like but won’t realistically maintain a close one-on-one friendship with. It feels like my social life has shrunk down to a tiny fraction of what it used to be. Say yes to all invitations and host casual gatherings to co-mingle friends from different areas of your life. Or figure out a way to magically make friends with more outgoing people, sigh…
Anonymous
What’s a polite, straightforward text to send to someone who’s company and mine work together—we were platonic “friends” for a couple of months but now I don’t want to engage except as work needs it. The gist would be: stop texting me. But in a good way so as to maintain the professional relationship.
Anon
Don’t think there is one, except to only respond about work-related manners and/or ask to shift to email communication.
Anonymous
Just stop responding
Anon
I’d go with something like, “I’m really busy for the next few months. So much going on! I hope you take good care. Maybe our paths will cross regarding work in the future.” Then I would stop responding to them.
Anonymous
A way to tell a friend you don’t want to be friends with them, without degrading your professional relationship? There isn’t one.
Hmmm
This.
Vicky Austin
Just ghost except re work. She’ll get it.
Senior Attorney
+1
Anon
I have had to do this too. It’s the only way.
Anon
Yeah there is no way to do this. I’d just not respond to a text for a few days and then say sorry just seeing this! Super busy these days. That sort of immunizes you for future non-responding or being slow.
Anon
I’d take awhile to text back and not agree to any sort of meet up or engage in personal life discussions. I wouldn’t ghost entirely because you work together.
Anonymous
As long as you won’t be needing professional favours from her in the future (like help getting a job or anything) just tell her you think she’s a nice person and enjoy working with her, but your out of work interests don’t jive.
Anonymous
Has anyone ever ordered anything from Cobalt Street? Their ads keep coming across my social media feed and I like one or two of the dresses, but don’t know anything about them in terms of quality, fit, are they legit, etc.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes! Good quality, although their offerings have certainly slimmed down. I ordered from them when they were relatively new, and the owner emailed me individually to actually follow up (and replied to my response!). It’s woman-owned and based out of Chicago.
pugsnbourbon
I’d never heard of this brand and looked them up. I think I’m in love with this sweatshirt – simple but just different enough: https://cobaltstreet.com/products/floral-band-organic-cotton-sweatshirt
Aunt Jamesina
I’ll be an enabler and say that I have the version without embroidery (looks like they no longer sell it), and it looks really nice, is super cozy, and has held up well!
Anon
Chiming in with more Vax Anecdata – had both the bivalent booster & flu last night. No side effects this morning other than a sore arm. This is consistent with my general pattern (#1 sore arm only, #2 bad chills and fever, #3 mild fever, #4 a bit of a headache), but switched from Pfizer to Moderna for #5 and wasn’t sure what to expect.
Glad to check that off the Fall To-Do List!
Anonymous
Woohoo! Glad you’re feeling well and hope the soreness goes away soon.
Pep
I had the bivalent booster in late September. I also switched from Moderna to Pfizer for #5. Side effects: sore arm (but not as sore as in previous shots) and a slightly headachy, tired feeling for a couple days afterwards. Nothing that really impacted my activities. I’m getting the flu shot later this month; they’re offering it at my office.
JTM
Same for me as well – got my bivalent booster and my flu shot on Tuesday. No side effects other than 2 sore arms, though the flu shot arm was sore on Tues, and booster arm was sore the next day. I also switched from Pfizer to Moderna for my booster & expected to have a response, but had nothing at all.
Anonymous
Yep – had both on Wednesday, had a few achy joints on Thursday, but am mostly fine today. I noted when I had the shot in my period tracker; I’ve never noticed it throwing things off before but I know that is a thing. I had Pfizer for #1, #2, #3 but Moderna for this one. 45 yo, not immunocompromised.
Formerly Lilly
Outlier here. Bivalent booster on Wednesday afternoon left me with a fever of several degrees, a sharp headache, and feeling very run down that night and the next morning. However, I have reacted to every Covid vax or booster, and the Covid that went through my office in 2020 that my coworkers experienced as much like a cold left me down in bed for a week and I’m still struggling with aftereffects. My 90 year old father, on the other hand, has had all the shots and has never had any reaction other than a sore arm.
Anon
I posted before that I had less of a reaction this time than I usually do (fever, teeth chattering chills, 4 day headache, dizziness). This time I had the headache but not as bad, and no fever or chills. I think the difference was that I started taking naproxen sodium 2 hours after the injection before symptoms set in. I alternated with acetaminophen for double coverage.
What I didn’t report last time was that I got a giant bump at the injection site that lasted over a week. At first it was very sore. Then it got intensely itchy. It was very red the whole time. I have read that this is a normal but not necessarily common reaction. Still better than long COVID but it was a pain, literally.
Anon
I love that Thanksgiving pants (looser; some stretch in the waist) were generally available as spring-summer pants in 2022. But what about cold weather versions? Cropped linen and lightweight materials don’t work. Do they exist in corduroy that isn’t frumpy? Or a denim with some give or just a heavier material in non-summer hues?
8/10 pear, so not an exotic size but I am stumped so far.
Anonanon
I’ve seen these as a heavy ponte version at Ann Taylor / Loft. I’m sure Nordstrom carries a few options but would need to dig for specific brands. JCrew also used to do a lot of these – I have an older pair but imagine you could poke around on Poshmark to find something similar.
There have been velvet versions that typically come out around the holidays. Some of the colors (red, gold) might be a bit too holiday for all winter wear, but I could see restyling a pine green or navy pair for everyday.
Anonymous
So you want elastic waist pants?
Anon
CUTE pants with stretch. I don’t want what my MIL is wearing.
Anon
They’re a lot easier to make cute in lightweight fabrics. I don’t know that you can make elastic waist corduroy pants without making them look like toddler clothes.
Anon
The only cute stretchy cords I’ve ever seen are Land’s End’s corduroy leggings. They have elastic straight leg cords, but they are exactly the grandma pants you think of when you think of Land’s End though.
Anon
I have those corduroy leggings. They’re great. I’m not a leggings-are-pants person so I wear them with a long sweater and they’re more loungewear for me, but I’m not opposed to wearing them out of the house for a quick errand. I would not wear them as work pants.
Monday
Madewell has loose pull-on corduroys right now, though I haven’t tried them myself.
Cat
the stretchy denim from skinny jeans is also used in looser-fit jeans so maybe start there?
Having been through flare-bottom corduroys once in my life as a mid-late 90’s teen, they weren’t cute then and they aren’t cute now!
Anon
I do like a good boot-cut cord though.
Anonymous
My girlfriend had some really cute rag and bone jeans that were actually sweatpants. Kind of like a made for tv situation but they looked pretty good!
Not your gf but...
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/rag-bone-miramar-faux-jeans-knit-joggers/5733611
They make a number of different washers
Anon
There are lots of wide leg pants that are trendy right now.
Anonymous
If it’s in your budget, check out Eileen Fisher. Elastic waist pants galore!
Anonymous
I have some cropped Madewell washable wool blend pants that are really comfortable. Mine have a paper bag waist.
Anonymous
Has anyone noticed heavier periods with weight gain of around 15lbs? (I’m at least 30lbs over weight now with it having creeped up that final 15lbs over covid . I’m working slowly to lose it again).
Anon
Yes, but I don’t think the two were related. I think it was more that I got older and both weight gain and heavier periods are more likely to happen when you’re in your 40s.
MagicUnicorn
I always notice lighter periods when I work out consistently, so maybe more of a correlation to weight rather than caused by weight?
Anon
Fat and hormone levels are related, unfortunately.
Angry at the drop of a hat
I need help with my anger and am not sure where to start.
For context, I’m in my 40s, am married and have two kids. Both of us are in middle to high level management positions. I have always had a short temper as long as I can remember. It wasn’t a ‘problem’ until I got married and it started affecting my relationship with my husband. He has helped me realize over a decade that my outbursts and the way I behave it not right. I now have two kids (6yr and 1 yr old) and have had frequent angry outbursts at the older one over the years. It usually stems from not being heard and having to repeat myself until I lose it. Last evening was particularly painful; my daughter ended up in fits of sobs and just couldn’t be calmed down. My husband usually ends up agreeing with my message (but not the tone in which it is delivered), but that is not helpful to the kid.
I ended up apologizing profusely and hugging her, but I am stuck in this cycle where I lose control and then end up riddled with horrible guilt. These are not the memories I want to make for my children and for myself. I feel like the most horrible person in the world when I do this. I am speaking with a therapist and have made it as far as identifying that I am getting angry and cultivating a voice in my head that tells me to stop before I regret it, but I still lose it more often than not.
I can’t talk to anyone else about this (family knows I have a short temper but the advice is essentially to stop shouting). Husband and I end up promising each other to do better next time, expressing our regrets to each other and to our daughter, but the cycle repeats. I don’t want to pull my family into these kind of unpleasant spirals.
Not sure what to do, hoping for some advice…I am heartbroken that I am causing so much pain to my daughter and husband :(
Smokey
I can relate! Based on personal experiences, I strongly suggest therapy to help with anger management because you need strategies for how to deal with these situations before things get out of control. And sometimes medication is helpful. Good luck!
Anon
Recognizing it is the key. I’d try CBT for therapy and get some tools to help you calm down before you blow up. If you want to change this, you can.
Curious
This sounds so hard. I really struggled for a long time to manage irritation, and still do when I’m very stressed. The path to a more even keel started exactly where your therapist has you: I had to be alert to my feelings. We spend almost two months on just those observations. Once you can notice that way, you work on all sorts of interventions, many of them much earlier than the crisis moment (where it’s often very hard to de-escalate yourself). I was often at a baseline 40 or 50 /100 stress, so it didn’t take a lot to get to a 70 or 80, where basically I need a cold shower to calm down. Learning to identify my distress earlier and earlier let me learn to decrease it earlier and earlier, and now my baseline is more like a 20/100. It just takes a lot more to get me to an 80. Antidepressants helped but a lot of it was cognitive restructuring, including dealing with some subclinical PTSD. Hugs to you. This is hard stuff and it sounds like you’re on the right path.
Curious
*spent
Anon
Your daughter may also need therapy. I grew up with a father who is a bully with a terribly short fuse, and it has made me a very timid and skittish adult.
As for you? Learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. You’re successful, smart, married, and have kids. Life worked out for you. That doesn’t mean you get to get everything you want or someone is the problem if you are not satisfied. Learn to be comfortable with kids being kids, your husband wanting things you don’t want, or having emotions that aren’t fun.
Understand what you have to lose. On some level, grown adults with short tempers tend to believe that their options are the status quo or better (for them). You understand that your daughter is upset and doesn’t like living like this. What you may not fully understand is the rock bottom that can happen to people with no fuse who drive others to tears: divorce, kids go no contact for their mental health, and companies keep firing you because they are tired of the complaints from your colleagues and employees.
BeenThatGuy
+1 to therapy for your daughter. My father was a lot like you, minus actually caring about how his behavior affected his children. After living under that type of distress as a child, it’s shaped my life in my negative ways. I’m constantly trying to people please because I don’t want to rock the boat for fear of being yelled at. I have stuggled with very low self worth. I’ve sought out romantic relationships where I never ever spoke up for any of my needs for fear of “poking the bear”.
I can appreciate that you want to change. And I BEG you to do it quickly. Your children don’t deserve a lifetime of distress because you couldn’t get it together.
Anon
My father didn’t care how it affected us. Worse, he used the effects of the verbal abuse as a lever – one of the last times I talked to him, he knew I was falling apart from his bullying, and told me to knuckle under for the sake of my marriage.
I don’t know where the OP is on the spectrum of yellers; I suspect, given her posting here and acknowledging how she is hurting her family, she’s on the other end than my father.
Anonymous
Would it have been better or worse if your parents divorced? Coming to this discussion late but I’m planning to tell my husband that he must get help to deal with his anger or I’m done. My concern is that, in the event of divorce, we will (presumably) share custody of our 4yo and she will be dealing with him on her own regularly.
BeenThatGuy
I shed more tears than I care to remember over wanting them to get divorced. Now, as a divorced mom myself, I know I did the right thing leaving my son’s father. After all the healing I did on myself, I wasn’t going to subject my child to what I experienced.
BeenThatGuy
Coming back to add that my father died earlier this year. My mother stayed married to him for almost 50 years. She never shed one tear after he passed. She has never mentioned his name in the last 7 months. She wasted 50 years of her life with a man who was verbally abusive. Wasted. Her. Life. Don’t be her. Sending you love.
Aunt Jamesina
I’m a reformed yeller (since childhood, even though neither of my parents were yellers), and what I’ve had to learn to do is to recognize when my anger is rising and remove myself from the situation immediately. “I’m feeling upset right now and I need to take a break for a few minutes”. And then remove myself to another room that second. I would explain this to your husband and kids beforehand so they know why you’re doing it (“I have a hard time calming down when I’m upset, so sometimes I need a few minutes to cools down before I speak”. I think this is actually modeling good emotional regulation for your kids, too).
I agree that therapy is helpful, but while you’re working out the root cause/triggers, you also need to figure out a way to stop doing this to your loved ones NOW.
Anonymous
Right. And that way is moving out. The same way we’d all tell a woman whose husband was abusing their kids to kick him out. Take some ownership here.
Anonymous
There is also harm from a parent’s moving out. And how do you know her husband does any better?
Aunt Jamesina
I’ve raised my voice at my husband like twice in our thirteen year relationship and I should move out?
Anonymous
The way *for her, the person we are talking about*
Anon
I think I raised my voice at my husband last month? We definitely argue in conversational tones, and having a 14yo doesn’t make it any easier. I love her, but I really dislike her right now.
To be frank, I’m at the point (husband is campaigning for a local office) where moving out sounds like a dream vacation. I could live in a place where people don’t leave chip bags everywhere and remember to turn out lights and I don’t have a pulled arm muscle because I’ve been sleeping curled up in a ball at the very edge of the bed.
Anon
This is not an appropriate place or time for you to work out your own childhood trauma by making other people feel bad about themselves after they’ve shared something personal. I don’t care how much people hate this, imma say it anyway: get therapy rather than taking out your feelings on other people on an anonymous message board. Your whole life will get better, not just what happens here.
Anonymous
+1000000 to 12:07
Anon
Huh? Anonymous at 11:25 AM posted something unremarkable: this would be considered abusive coming from a man, and the OP should do what she would want a man to do in that situation (ie move out).
Anon
+1 million to 12:07, especially if this Anonymous is who I think she is.
Aunt Jamesina
I have a comment in mid, but I also want to add that your message will never, ever be heard while you’re yelling.
Senior Attorney
Hoo boy, ain’t that the truth?
Anonymous
I’m also a yeller and hate it. They know when they’re pushing me and I’m calm and calm and calm and calm and calm and suddenly I’m REALLY REALLY ANGRY. It isn’t at the drop of the hat but when I finally lose it I really do. I as interested to see a TikToker just do a thing about mom rage. She also talks a lot about ADHD and I see this as part of it, like poor impulse control.
https://www.tiktok.com/@thecorporatemama/video/7152991326253026606?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7106602714775930411
Anonymous
“They know when they are pushing me” is such a cop out.
Anon
Yeah exactly.
That’s truly something an abuser says. It’s developmentally normal for kids to push boundaries and you need to find a way to deal with that other than getting scary angry. I understand a couple of times, but doing it over and over is SO traumatizing for kids.
Anonymous
It’s more like a 4-hour discussion about (doing unreasonable thing after bedtime), which isn’t happening.
no we can’t do that after bedtime.
as i told you earlier we’re not doing that after bedtime.
(weeping child) i understand you’re upset but it’ll be too late to do that
let’s go over the reasons again why we’re not doing that after bedtime
what did i tell you 15 minutes ago, we’re not doing that after bedtime
(angry child) how many times do i have to tell you?
i’ve been telling you for hours we’re not doing that
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU WE’RE NOT DOING THAT?!?!?
Not the best response for sure but I don’t think it’s abusive. (Spouse would have yelled after first 3x.)
Anon at 12:03
Right. Losing your temper every now and then is one thing. The discussion on this thread is about someone who is mean and scary to her child “frequently” as she self reports, and she believes it’s a problem. (And good for her for the acknowledgment)
If the pattern you listed happens often, and the child is getting screamed at a lot, then I do really believe it is abusive. It is developmentally normal for kids to push buttons, and I fully believe it’s the parent’s responsibility to figure out a way to deal with this normal behavior in a way that doesn’t damage the child’s mental health. Clearly the OP is working on that. I would just encourage some of the people who seem to think it’s okay to scream at your kids until they cry “frequently” to re-read the responses here about what kind of lasting effects that trauma can cause.
Anon at 12:03
And “look what you made me do” is really never NEVER okay to say to your kids after your own bad behavior, even if they were pushing your buttons. It’s the same as saying “you made me hurt you.” You’re teaching them that they are responsible for someone else’s bad behavior, and surely you can understand why that’s harmful in the long run.
Anon
Ot the above commenter, but I have seen people who LOVE to needle, jab, take pot shots, or pick at sore spots. The touchstone is the reasonableness of the conversation, not the vehemence of the response.
Senior Attorney
Yes, and it’s not even okay to yell at those people. “See what you made me do?” is always a cop out.
Anon
Senior Attorney, your judgement is sometimes smug and lacking. I don’t police the responses of people who have been needled, degraded, or mocked for years on end. Very often, the one time they respond “inappropriately” is exactly what convinces their tormenters to cut it out.
JHC
I grew up with a “look what you made me do” mother. It’s abusive and I’m still struggling to get over it at 46 years old. SA is correct here.
Anon at 12:03
I think the context of this discussion is within what is supposed to be a loving and supportive relationship (parent and young child).
You’re right that there’s obviously abuse and bullying where the aggressor is pushing the other person’s buttons intentionally and it can be appropriate to call them out on it.
But this discussion is about how parents react to their young children, which is entirely different.
No Face
Other people will have specific advice about temper, but I can give mom advice.
I don’t really get upset about my kids anymore because I accept where they are developmentally. My 6 year old is a space cadet. She will literally not hear me the first time. That is especially true if there is another stimulus like tv. I just accept that fact. That is where she is, and we are working on it. So while you are working in the anger, you can also work on changing your expectations.
Anonymous
You’re abusing your child. Treat it like the crisis it is. Move out. Do residential treatment. Do an intensive out patient anger management program. Be honest with your therApist that you are an abuser and need urgent help.
Anonymous
And I know everyone will yell at me about this. But I think the way you fix it and the way you make it ok is to treat it really seriously, because what you’re doing now isn’t working. I don’t think it means you are irredeemable or can’t change!
Anonymous
tell me you don’t have kids over 5 without telling me you don’t have kids over 5
Anon
I would say over 3 but yeah.
Anon
Yes, this.
Anon
I disagree. I don’t think it’s normal to frequently lose it like the OP has said. I don’t know about the inpatient treatment aspect, but it’s really really really not okay to “frequently” lose it at a SIX YEAR OLD to the extent that the child is inconsolable. I grew up in a household like this. My brother ended up estranged from my father, and I’m still in therapy for the fallout.
No
Isn’t the whole point that OP recognizes this is a problem and is trying to change? Are people serious when they say they think it would be better for her to just move out and leave her kids behind? What on earth.
Anon at 12:03
It is excellent that OP is working on this. I was responding to the poster immediately above who I thought was implying this type of behavior is normal. It’s not.
My personal opinion is that I’d OP can figure out a way to get herself out of the situation before yelling, then of course she should stay and work on it (and get her daughter therapy).
If she can’t figure out how to break the cycle of doing this, that’s another issue. I do have hope since she sees the problem and is working on it!
Anon
I’m not saying OP’s behavior is good, but my 4 year old dissolves in tears 90% of the time she gets any kind of discipline or punishment at all. It’s obviously not abusive to discipline your kids when they do something really wrong that they should know not to do. Some kids are just more sensitive, so I don’t think the child’s reaction should be the standard here.
Another Anon
Hard agree. I was *such* a good mother before I had kids, too!
Real advice: It’s good you’re taking steps to address this problem. My father was a huge yeller and as a kid who grew up in that situation, my sib and I are *excellent* at dealing with difficult people but it’s hard to re-learn how to handle conflict as an adult. Kids that little are very, very stressful. Is there any way you can get more domestic or babysitting help? Also, forgive yourself. In some ways, it’s kind of good that the first person who yells at your kid won’t be their manager at a fast food place.
Anonymous
Wow you think it’s better to be abused by your mom first to toughen you up? Feel bad for your kids.
Sasha
I love my dad dearly but he was like this when I was growing up–90% of the time he was a gentle giant, the other 10% of the time he would snap and scream at me until I was a sobbing mess. This happened well into my 20s until I moved out. We have a much better relationship now but that part of my childhood was really difficult. He is/was a great dad in so many ways but his temper affected me deeply. The way my dad treated me echoes through all of my relationships with men (my brother, male friends, romantic partners, male coworkers, etc.) in ways that have really harmed my self esteem and development. The way our parents treat us weaves itself into every interpersonal dynamic we have–losing your temper with your kid occasionally is normal, but screaming at them like this over an entire childhood leaves scars.
Anon
+1
No
What? No. Don’t tell someone to move out and abandon their kids because they yell sometimes. If this is bringing up issues from your own childhood, get therapy to deal with those but don’t project your situation on people you don’t even know.
Anonymous
It is not abandoning your kids to leave them with their father temporarily while you get the help you need to stop hurting them.
Anon
This.
anon
This is dramatic. Yes OP needs therapy but in patient is wildly unrealistic for a working parent.
In most circumstances it’s not okay to yell at a young child. They don’t have the ability to recognize when Mom’s frustrations are building and the volume is about her own issues vs. a serious problem that merits a strong response. When you have an older kid or teen they’re more likely to understand that a raised voice isn’t the end of the world. I grew up in a family of yellers and sure it would be great to discuss all matters in thoughtful, measured voices. But I’m grateful that I don’t get intimidated by loud jerks. Many of my female friends and coworkers freeze up when someone raises their voice, and letting it roll off your back is an important life skill. I’m not saying anyone should intentionally yell at their kids to toughen them up, but yelling alone doesn’t constitute abuse.
BUT there’s a big difference between raising your voice and using a specific angry tone that reduces your audience to tears. My dad has a certain tone that escalates everything to an 11. The argument is no longer about the argument, it’s suddenly about that tone. It’s impossible to have a constructive conversation at that point. The few times my dad has done it it caused a major rift. It’s hard but in the moment you need to ask if yourself whether your next sentence will communicate relevant information or if it will make your audience completely shut down. OP should get to therapy or anger management ASAP. But it’s not helpful to treat her like she belongs in a psyche ward and is unfit to see her children.
Anon
Big hugs. I want to give you so much acknowledgement for seeing there’s a problem and wanting to work on it.
I struggled with angry outbursts for many years. It was a combination of having a naturally low level for frustration and having grown up in a household where my parents had been through 70s/80s things like est and Gestalt therapy, and believed that the “right way” to handle complicated emotions was to vent them, profligately and without filter, at the exact moment they had them. I thought for a long time that it was completely normal to lose it at someone and then apologize later, and that they had to forgive you. When I finally figured out that was not okay, the behavior pattern was ingrained (and I also had no model for how to act otherwise) and so it was a tough behavioral pattern to break.
What helped me was going to a therapist that helped me connect the physical reactions I had to stress to knowing when to keep my mouth shut. When I get really angry, my hands start tingling and I get lightheaded/dizzy, almost like my head is about to detach from my body and float away. She helped me figure out, when those physical reactions happen, I have a split second in which I can either open my mouth and say something terrible, or I can keep my mouth shut and walk away from the situation. Walking away/detaching is not the best reaction, but it’s infinitely better than saying something hurtful I don’t really mean, or screaming at someone. We worked on deep breathing, “centering in the body” (pulling focus away from the situation and focusing on my breath and my heartbeat until I can let my brain overtake my emotional reaction, etc.). We also did a LOT of work about discarding old programming patterns from my childhood and realizing I could re-write a new script for operating that was different from what my parents did.
She also taught me about HALT, which is usually used in 12-step programs for helping addicts understand when they are at risk for using (when you’re Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired) and helped me connect that the times I was most likely to have an outburst was when I was already stressed and had not been taking care of my own needs. I am the only one who can control eating enough, drinking enough water, sleeping enough, getting sufficient “me time” or alone time, and not becoming overburdened by tasks. So I have to take responsibility for setting boundaries around my own self-care and making sure I can meet my own needs. If I don’t help myself I become a liability to others, etc.
That worked pretty well until my son hit preteen age. I am convinced there is no one in the world who knows how to push your buttons like your preteen/teenage child. I went back to therapy (a different therapist) mainly to have a place to vent to someone who was not my husband about how frustrated I was by my son’s immature and provocative behavior. My new therapist had me mentally chant a mantra when I would get into it with my son: “He’s only 12 (or 13, 14, etc.).” It was a different kind of “centering” exercise, to help me focus on him, and my love for him, and not the things he was saying (which he did not really mean or was only saying to intentionally provoke a reaction; my therapist helped me understand that when they’re trying to get you to have a strong reaction and you give it to them, you’re just reinforcing the attention-seeking behavior).
That’s my long-winded way of saying: Find a therapist who does cognitive-behavioral therapy and explain that you need practical, actionable techniques for dealing with your emotions. Going back through your childhood and emotional history will help you, but you need help now to stop the behaviors that are causing misery in your family. There are so many good techniques out there; you need someone who is willing to jump right in there with you and start working through some things that might work.
My heart goes out to you. You got this. It will get better from here.
Anon
I’m a reformed yeller, and here is what helped me:
1) Figure out the underlying cause that makes you yell. Mine is anxiety. If I’m anxious about work especially, I have a hairtrigger temper. I ultimately left my high stress Big Law job for a much lower stress job. I have continued to leave jobs over the years if I feel like I’m in a constant state of anxiety. Therapy didn’t help as much as making a real life change that tangibly reduced general stress in my life.
2) Check your hormones. I was in a great stretch for years, but peri-menopause has made my PMS horrible. If I’m not regularly exercising HARD (high intensity stuff) and taking a bunch of vitamins daily, I slip back into being on the edge of yelling.
3) Having a kid with sensory processing disorder made me realize I also have a bunch of sensory hair triggers. Too much kid noise or wrestling sets me way off, so I excuse myself or send the kids outside when I feel my anger rising. Being more aware of it has been really helpful to remove myself before I get past the breaking point.
Last item, which you already know – I was seriously harming my kid and my husband with my temper. The fact that I was unpredictably up or down was incredibly hard on them. I have repaired my relationship with them, but only because I took really concrete steps to fix it and manage it. I don’t regret anything I did to fix it — even leaving behind a super successful, very visibly powerful position. It was hard, but so very worth it.
Anon
“I was in a great stretch for years, but peri-menopause has made my PMS horrible. If I’m not regularly exercising HARD (high intensity stuff) and taking a bunch of vitamins daily, I slip back into being on the edge of yelling.”
Co-sign this, 100%. I have seen memes about how unfair it is that in this modern age, women have to deal with the intersection of perimenopause and parenting teenagers, and I have never seen anything more true in my life. For folks who are not at this particular juncture of your hormonal life, I am here to tell you, it is the worst. For me it has been like second adolescence in terms of the mood swings, not knowing what my body is doing from one minute to the next, etc. But now I have a six-figure job, a partner, a child, many responsibilities and the expectation that I can’t just stomp off to my room, slam the door, and sob into a teddy bear.
Exercise helps a ton as do magnesium supplements, and melatonin on days when I am on edge and know I’ll have trouble sleeping. I can’t do HRT (family history of breast cancer) but I would 100% do it if I could. OP, if this might be part of your issue, talk to your doctor. There are treatment options that could help.
Anonymous
So anger is a secondary emotion – it’s generally a cover for fear or sadness. Part of your fear may be that you aren’t going to be heard. I will bet there are people in your life who have made you feel that way. I’ll bet there are other fears that trigger your anger as well.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, I was a yeller years ago (still feel horrible about it). I struggled and struggled. And oh, I was married to an emotionally abusive narcissist and never felt safe and always felt judged for everything including yelling.
These days? It would never occur to me to raise my voice, let alone yell, because I feel safe and cared for and valued. Oh, and also I’ve had a boatload of therapy in the meantime.
Anon
…and you are not parenting small/teen children at this moment in your life.
Anon
This this this. Senior Attorney, I value your contributions here but you are not in this stage of life and so you can’t really comment on how you’d behave if you were.
Anon
My mom was a yeller with a short temper. I’m 37 and it still hurts me. So please get help to deal with anger management. I can’t watch TV shows or movies with yelling because of my mom. We have a great relationship now, but it still affects me.
anon
Do you also do this in your professional life or only in your personal life? And in your personal life, is it limited to family or do you also do this with friends?
Anon
This is a great question. If you only yell at your family members, it’s clear you have the ability to control it. At least remove yourself from the room if you get an inkling you’ll lose control.
Therapy is great. A friend of mine has told me an SSRI helped a lot with her anger issues.
Co-sign to all of the above posters who had a yelling parent and who are permanently damaged from it. I know you know this, but please do everything you can now and maybe explore therapy for your daughter because it can affect the victims forever.
Mom rage too
Focus on this with your therapist. My advise. I grew up with yeller parents and I don’t want that for my kid (5 now and spirited). I get this “mom rage” at my family when they don’t listen or do what I want or something bothers me like mess.
Walk away instead of yelling. Walk outside or in another room and be a grownup and calm down. You have to do this in the moment and it’s hard as hell but do it once then twice and it becomes a habit. Announce it too. For your benefit and your kids so they see healthy coping.
Heart to heart with husband and share what you will do. He can help. Example- my daughter was ignoring me asking 4 times to do something. I felt anger and walked away. My husband stepped in and said “kid, mommy asked you a few times to do x and it can be frustrating when you don’t listen. Can you do it now”. She did it.
Know your triggers. I really hate kid mess and honestly any mess. I dream of the pristine house I will retire in. I am teaching my kid to clean up between projects and pick up stuff she drops. Slow progress. I told my husband he need to make the bed because it drives me mad. I decided to do little things like when I get up from a chair I pick up two things and put them in their place. I have a cleaning lady. I use spare minutes to tidy up stuff. Removing my triggers.
Big picture thinking. My kid is 5. She is not fully formed. She will do irritating irrational things because that is what 5 year olds do. Deep breath. She’s 5. (Or 14 or whatever…).
Own your decisions. I decided to let my kid do that craft mess. I regret it but I did let her do it and I’m not going to try to reverse course.
Dr. The Original ...
It sounds like you aren’t showing up in these moments. Right now, when you are talking to us, you are “40 something.” It sounds like, in the moments when you are frustrated, you are maybe 6 years old or so? That’s super common, to show up in different situations as different versions of ourselves.
Since you can’t yet handle things like a 40something, you gotta walk. Physically remove yourself from the situation to feel your 6 year old feelings and then process them. Then you can return as your 40something self and respond. The immediate rule needs to be that Mommy immediately goes into time out. That can be a different room or a walk around the block or a shower or whatever. You need to articulate this to your partner and your 6 yr old. (Possible script: “Mommy is working on getting better at responding like a grownup should so she can teach you how to do that as you grow up. Right now, when she gets mad, she will walk away first, then come back and talk with you. This isn’t because you aren’t allowed to make mistakes, it is because Mommy has some work to do too.”)
In the meantime, therapy specific to anger and specific to wounded child work. Your childhood self didn’t get heard and it clearly didn’t improve in teen years. Others have either left you or considered it the price of admission, allowing you to keep doing it- which means your childhood self never got to learn to be heard and your adult self never learned how to respond/react better. Now 40something you needs to reparent your 6 year old self. Raise her up to feel heard, seen, validated, safe.
Work on this with a professional and ask your husband to hold you accountable too. If you are holding yourself accountable, seeking weekly treatment with a professional, and removing yourself before you can harm others, you’ll fix the problem and stop harming others while you do. YAY YOU FOR SELF-AWARENESS AND GROWTH! <3
Anon
Do you know when you’re losing it? Can you give yourself a time out? Give yourself a moment to get it together when you feel the disproportionate anger coming on. Go to another room, leave the house, do what you have to do.
Anonymous
As Emily McDowell says: “You’re not a monster. Parenting is really hard.”
https://emandfriends.com/products/not-a-monster-card
Karen
I am sorry that people are telling you to move out of the home. They obviously haven’t read that maternal neglect and abandonment are actually more harmful to children than physical and mental abuse. I represent children charged with serious crimes and am very informed as to the ACES study. That saidm yelling and being angry is normal human behavior. It is when you are doing it all the time and belittling people that it becomes harmful. I had been sober for quite some time but without meetings when I started yelling at people. I went back to meetings, got a new sponsor, and, perhaps, most helpful, started taking Lexapro.
Angry at the drop of a hat
OP here. I want to thank everyone for their responses, compassion and support – I have a lot to think about. I am speaking with my therapist next week. In the meantime, I wanted to add some more info to a few questions that were raised:
1. I do not do this in my this in my professional life, or even to friends beyond immediate family. However, I find that there are very few things if any that I give a f*** about at work, so I never really feel anger or feel the need to be less than politically correct. It just doesn’t matter personally to me and isn’t worth it to me to spend emotional energy on it. I acknolwedge that part of it is that shouting / yelling would probably get me fired and that factors in my behavior, but I also don’t feel ‘triggered’ at work if that makes sense.
2. Someone mentioned fear of not being heard. That is exactly it. In almost all cases, it is because my husband or mom or child are not listening to me (i.e., doing what I think they should do, whether it is cleaning up or taking care of their health) even after me having told them multiple times.
3. With my daughter, my triggers revolve around food and bathroom issues. She has always been a picky eater and we really struggle with mealtimes. She also gets constipated easily. My frustration yesterday resulted from a cumulation of 6 years of trying to get this kid eating and pooping, including some horrible experiences (fecal compaction, trying to remove stuck poop with a gloved finger etc.). I am so tired of fighting this battle and having her eat junk food or refuse to sit on the toilet :(
4. I am also breastfeeding so the PMS angle doesn’t apply yet (the 1yr old was rounded up; he is short a few months from being 1 yr old). I am getting up multiple times a night and really wish now that I had done all of this ten years ago.
5. Husband is not a yeller but we have realized one of us needs to be in daughter’s corner at all times, especially if the other parent is losing it
ArenKay
Late to this thread, but I appreciate you wanting to tackle this problem head-on. You have lots of good advice here, but I will just add re your third point that Miralax is fabulous for constipation in small kids. Our pediatrician recommended it for our kid who had anxiety around toilet training for p00p, and it did the trick right away. So at least one challenge might be easily solved! Good luck.
pugsnbourbon
This is really important context. Being sleep deprived makes me irritable like nothing else. Can you pump and have your husband do night feedings? Or start weaning?
I assume you’ve taken your daughter to the doctor re: food and toilet issues? She could have some food aversions that have been compounded by the constipation issues, so maybe even a therapist could help.
Finally – it sounds like the root of this is a need for control (“doing what I think they should do”). I would explore that with your therapist.
Best of luck – I hope things start getting more peaceful soon.
Anonymous
This is all so very hard. Kid problems like the food and bathroom issues you describe are the absolute most enraging thing. Society tells you that as the mother you are solely responsible for your child’s health, happiness, and success in life. If she doesn’t eat or won’t use the bathroom it is your fault and no one else’s. The parenting “experts” like Janet Lansbury and Dr. Becky and all the “just feed them cute colorful food!” and “potty bootcamp works or you’re doing it wrong!” voices reinforce this. There is no feeling of failure and powerlessness worse than the feeling you have when your kid will only eat two foods and suddenly starts refusing one of them. Of course you are enraged. Add to that BFing and sleep deprivation and it is just an unsustainable situation.
The way out of this is to find a way to either fix or live with your daughter’s food and potty issues, to reclaim your brain and body from BFing, and to find a way to get enough quality sleep. Have you looked into medical solutions for the potty issues and feeding therapy for the pickiness? Have you considered weaning (do be aware that some women experience mood issues during and right after weaning) and/or trading off night duty with your husband so you can get a solid night’s sleep every other night?
Of course therapy can help you channel your frustration in ways other than yelling, but life has put you in a situation where any person would be overcome with rage. It’s not selfish to insist that improving that situation be part of the solution. On the contrary–ensuring that you are not overextended is part of being a good parent.
anon
So, 3 is interesting. From a (secondhand) teacher’s perspective, I knew a child who had a mother who had a short temper with potty training. She would yell at the child for accidentally p00ping her pants and embarrassing her in public. The child would try to hold it and got better at this over time. So good in fact that one week her mother realized she hadn’t p00ped at all. They went to the emergency room and the girl had her bowels compacted all the way up to the small intestine. There was surgery, CPS was called, and a full investigation happened. The child stayed in the home but there were court mandated parenting lessons and therapy for all parties. This sounds like where you are headed, especially if your child ever tells a teacher about what you do in the bathroom.
You can’t order people (even your own kids) into eating specific things, being better at using the potty, studying harder, going to sleep earlier, or even to stop yelling. They can and will make the wrong choices because everyone does and it’s not about you when that happens. Stop making their day to day choices about the limits of your power over them. The only way you stop fighting this battle with her is if you choose to stop fighting because there is no winning it the way that you imagine.
Anon
Wow it’s pretty crazy to me that they called CPS over a compacted bowel. That seems like doctor overreach but maybe my opinion is colored by all the recent stories about kids being removed by CPS for no good reason. My 4 year old had terrible constipation, and while we never *quite* got to that point, we got damn close. The longest we went between poops was 11 days. I have yelled at my child on occasion, sure, but never about pooping her pants. In fact, she never had accidents. Severe constipation like this is a medical issue and it seems pretty reckless and harmful to blame a parent for it (except I can understand being concerned the mother hadn’t noticed her child hadn’t pooped in a week). I’m not sure what you mean by “if your daughter ever tells a teacher what you do in the bathroom” but I think it’s a logical leap and unfair to say OP’s behavior is causing or exacerbating this problem.
Curious
No additional thoughts except God I’d be exhausted in your shoes. You deserve grace and I am proud of you for seeking help, which can be very hard to do.
Karen
Wow. Sounds like you have a job, a difficult child, a baby and that you lack a support system. No wonder you are yelling! Hugs.
Anon
I’m late but maybe you’ll see it. This is really important context and it’s a great start that you have this much insight into your self. I’d encourage you to check out the book Codependent No More and work with your therapist on codependency. The fact that your family won’t do exactly what you said doesn’t mean you aren’t being heard — ther is a big difference between listening to someone and agreeing with them / being compliant. And on the eating and bathroom stuff it’s your job as a parent to keep creating the best possible conditions and getting your kid help from a doctor and maybe a feeding therapist or other specialists but ultimately you can’t control what she eats. If you can figure out how to internalize that, it may help diminish your angry responses.
KP
Alanon is surprisingly helpful for this. The only requirement is a problem with alcohol in a relative or friend. Doesn’t have to be recent. I’d be surprised if there isn’t a meeting near you.
Anon
If you feel it starting, walk away. Just turn around and walk away. Circle back when you feel better.
Your loved ones do not deserve this.
Anon
Hi – this kind of sounds like my husband and his interactions with my daughter’s outburst (pre therapy). I sympathize with your husband because I often felt like I ended up having to comfort my daughter because of HOW he delivered the message, even if the underlying message was not itself wrong (things like “hey, stop hitting your brother”). It was a strain for all of us.
We ended up doing some therapy and that helped. Not sure if this may be the issue with your daughter, but my kid has really high emotional intelligence outside of our house, but tends to let it all hang out/tantrums/age inappropriate behavior/etc. with close family. We worked together with a therapist both on her emotional expressions, and also both of us parents talked with the therapist about how to handle when she gets frustrated (and avoid blowing up).
Anokha
Does anyone remember Moulinette Souers? It was a brand sold at Anthropologie like… a decade ago. (Aging myself!). Does anyone know what happened to them?
Elbe
Are you looking for something specific? I have some of their vintage items.
Anon
Watching the video released yesterday on Pelosi in real time during the insurrection. So much respect – not just for her leadership and cool head during times of crisis … but damn if she wasn’t wearing 3 inch heels that whole time – up and down stairs, down the hallways, into the secure location and back to the capitol. Man. I hope I can do half what she does when I’m 82,
Anon
And IIRC those floors are hard. Props to her feet.
Anonymous
Agreed!! And I couldn’t believe how little she swore – I would have been like a pirate captain under siege in that moment. Or Selina from Veep.
Curious
Not only is that impressive, it yet again hits home how unbelievably horrible that day was.
anon
I for one would have loved to see her punch him. 100 percent confident on who would have won.
pugsnbourbon
I recommend multiple viewings of Josh Hawley’s terrified sprint. What did he think would happen when he stirred everybody up outside? What a chicken.
Anon
I felt the same way. I’m on the young side and haven’t had the exposure to her career that some others have. I was SO impressed, inspired, drawn to her. I want to learn more about her life and career. I have the Madam Speaker book by Susan Page on order.
Senior Attorney
Yes! All the respect.
A.
Gahhhhhhh I just discovered that my two kids, who were painting nails at the dining room table last night on top of a towel IN FRONT OF MY SPOUSE, must have spilled polish remover on the towel. When I picked it up this morning, parts of the towel stuck to the table to reveal a bumpy/discolored finish underneath.
On one hand, we cannot have Nice Things in this house (we have three kids and a dog), and on the other hand I’m so, so sad about this. Internet research about the viability of fixing this at home has me overwhelmed. Any easy/easier tips from those out there with experience? Dark finish/smooth top table.
Anon
Generally, if you wreck the finish in one part of a wood, finished table, you need to get the whole table refinished, sadly. This may cost more than the table. I know this because at my third birthday, a relative gave me a perfume sample, and I wrecked our dining room table. Thus, for my entire childhood, I was reminded of this and nail-painting happened outside!
Anonymous
Honestly? Just buy a fancy set of placemats the table is doomed.
Anonymous
Whether it can be spot repaired depends on the finish (shellac, wax, oils), synthetic plastic based finished like poly can’t be spot repaired and the whole table top will need to be sanded down and refinished.
Anon
We had this happen, sort of (silver glitter nail polish on a mahogany side table by Hooker or some fancy brand, our one piece of nice furniture; that kid will be getting that in my will).
For a dining room table, no one ever needs to see that wood, so do nothing today but: get glass cut to cover the table or a padded table cover (I did #2) and a table cloth that you like (I have a coated linen one that is pretty indestructable) and pretend it’s a restaurant.
FWIW, in my NC city, you can get tons, TONS, of mahogany dining room tables on craigslist. Probably for less than refinishing.
Chl
Maybe try restor-a-finish? It kind of melts the whole area and smoothes together. It won’t be perfect but okay for kid era.
buffybot
So *I* did this to my parents’brand new cherrywood coffee table probably about 30 years ago — tiissues soaked in nailpolish remover in an empty kleenex box, left the box there for a bit to soak through….and the messed up corner is still there decades later. Which is to say, sadly, I don’t think there is a fix.
AnonMom
Refinishing a table is not really that difficult if you have space and an inclination to fix it. Or you could sand the bumpy part and paint the surface.
Cosign on getting a glass topper to prevent this going forward. Ours has saved our table from all manner of gunk and I seriously have a dedicated paint scraper that I use regularly to remove the latest caked on crud from the glass.
Marshmallow
Ugh. I do not actually know the answer to your question, but may I suggest you make this your spouse’s research project because they were supervising.
ArenKay
Second.
Aunt Jamesina
I would try smoothing it out a bit with an ultra fine grit sandpaper. Go slow and with the grain… and then call it “patina”.
Dessert
Seeking dessert ideas. I’m hosting a fall-themed dinner potluck for six people. What should I make for dessert? I’m not a serious baker so I’d like to avoid pies and complicated recipes. Chocolate would be nice but I’m open to ideas. The only other limitation is no ice cream. Thanks!
Anon
I would just buy an apple and a pumpkin pie tbh.
pugsnbourbon
And lots of whipped cream! From a can or tub or made yourself.
ArenKay
Maybe not these exact two, because people will be eating so much pumpkin pie in a month. How about a cranberry or plum galette? Those are pretty easy to make (not much harder than a cobbler), but they look a lot fancier. Dorie Greenspan has a great recipe for a cranberry galette.
Anon
It doesn’t seem fancy, but so easy and I guarantee they will disappear: Smitten Kitchen salted browned butter crispy treat. Perfect for “oh, I think I will have another” while after dinner conversations flow.
Vicky Austin
Totally agree. I’d also suggest blondies, pumpkin bread (SK has great recipes for both of these) or maybe Pinch of Yum’s cinnamon sugar apple cake.
Anonymous
Trader Joe’s boxed blondie mix. So easy and so good, I always get compliments on it.
OP
Blondies would be perfect! Maybe I’ll add some type of caramel topping to jazz them up
ALT
TJs has salted caramel chips that are delicious…you could add those to the blondies mix
Deedee
I love pecan pie for fall. My go to recipe is MyRecipes Utterly Deadly Southern Pecan Pie. Couldn’t be easier, just make sure you don’t need the oven afterward. I often make this very last thing the day before Thanksgiving and leave it in the oven overnight. You can use a pre-made crust and it’s not that noticeable because of the sweet filling. My trick is to spread the premade Pillsbury crust with 1/2 T of powdered sugar, which I think adds a little zhuzh. If you like, you could mix in some chocolate chunks for chocolate pecan pie.
brokentoe
I have recommended this here before, and it is really divine without being difficult – and it’s better if you make it the day ahead. https://www.justapinch.com/recipes/dessert/cake/ginger-mascarpone-icebox-cake.html
Aunt Jamesina
Smitten Kitchen’s recipe for a cranberry pie with pecan crumble made without the crust (so it’s just a crumble) is super fast and delicious. It would also be good with apples.
Anon
Make some brownies – you cannot go better than the recipe on the Baker’s chocolate box, called One Bowl Brownies – and buy an apple pie.
Jules
Honestly, Marie Callender frozen pies, which you bake at home, are The Bomb. I baked one for a last-minute casual dinner party and everyone raved. Last summer, with some of the same group, I spent a lot of time baking a mango cake and also had a Marie Callender pie – and there was a lot more cake than pie left over at the end of the night.
My favorite is cherry crumble, but the apple pies are excellent. Maybe add some vanilla ice cream, maybe caramel sauce if you want to be fancy, and you are done.
Jules
Reposting after being in mod jail for using the word exc*ll*nt.
Honestly, Marie Callender frozen pies, which you bake at home, are The Bomb. I baked one for a last-minute casual dinner party and everyone raved. Last summer, with some of the same group, I spent a lot of time baking a mango cake and also had a Marie Callender pie – and there was a lot more cake than pie left over at the end of the night.
My favorite is cherry crumble, but the apple pies are exc*ll*nt. Maybe add some vanilla ice cream, maybe caramel sauce if you want to be fancy, and you are done.
Notinstafamous
Has anyone tried an implant instead of an IUD? My second mirena is due to come out next spring this spring (7 years) and I’ve been reading about the Nexplanon implant as an alternative. Monogamous & child free by choice so my main concern is how painful I found both insertions of the IUD.
Anon
I had a failed IUD insertion that was the worst pain of my life up to that point. No meds beforehand and sobbed. The Nexplanon was almost completely pain free with only a strong pinch and a sore arm for a day or two. I’m due to have it removed and replaced in the next few months, so I don’t know what the removal is going to be like (if they can’t get it out in the office, they have to do it as an outpatient surgery). The only major downside that I have is that it has completely taken away any drive that I have, but that is completely normal for me with any type of hormonal birth control.
Anon
Can you see it? I swear I could see some sort of implant on the woman working out next to me the last time I was at the gym (2019?).
emeralds
I have skinny arms and you could mayyyybe see the barest hint of a shadow inside my arm if I was flexing in direct sunlight. I guess I do have a tiny scar at the implant site? It just looks like a freckle though, and IDGAF.
Anon
Different poster, but I couldn’t see mines. If you are really, really skinny, maybe it could be show. But for me, as an average size person, I could feel it but not see it
Anon
Could be a blood glucose monitor if she was diabetic. Those are also in the arm.
Anon
Mine is on the inside/underneath of my arm. I have a small dot of a scar that I’m sure only I would be able to see. There’s a faint outline of the implant under my skin, but it would only be visible to someone else if I was raising my bare arms over my head.
emeralds
Like Anon at 10:44, I tried getting an IUD inserted and it just didn’t work for my body, so I got the implant instead. I’ve had two of them so obviously they worked for me! I had no difference in side effects from being on the pill. Similarly to Anon, the first insertion was a breeze–a pinch when they injected the local anesthetic, then a sore arm for a couple days. The recovery from the removal + replacement process for #2 was a bit more painful, but nothing near the IUD.
Anonymous
LOL – I think the “obviously they worked” part is whether you have kids or not :-)
emeralds
Lmao that’s the truth. No kids!
anon
No knowledge of the implants. Unless they have changed, I didn’t like how short acting they were compared to Mirena.
I’m on my 3rd Mirena and have very difficult insertions each time. FWIW, if you are open to continuing with Mirena, current medical advice is in favour of giving some sort of short-acting anti-anxiety/pain relief/etc. (Valium??? I’m not sure…) for the actual insertion procedure, as well as an injectable numbing agent for the cervix.
Of course, I learned about this DURING my third difficult insertion, when the doctor said I should make sure to request it going forward, they just didn’t know I would need it…
Anon
This is infuriating! How do they not tell patients this is an option and recommend it! I don’t want an IUD because I have a low pain tolerance, but I wish other women were given the option to have strong pain meds, etc. I hate that we are expected to suffer.
Anon
I am on my 4th IUD and the last insertion was the only time I was proactively offered Xanax and prescription ibuprofen before the insertion (both of which I took advantage of). Prior to that, pre-procedure advisement was basically “yeah this is going to be uncomfortable” and that was it. I don’t know if the change was due to me going to a different clinic, or there’s been different clinical advice given to gynecologists about prepping people for appointments, or what. As to “why is it like this” and “why are we expected to suffer through things rather than have our pain be recognized and addressed” – the answer to both of those questions is: the patriarchy.
Anon
I had the Nexplanon first. The insertion was easy, I could feel but not see it in my arm. Unfortunately, I had a lot of spotting that didn’t go away after a few months, and got annoying to deal with. The procedure to take it out was pretty quick. If not for the spotting, I would have stayed on it.
I then switched to Mirena, and had a painful insertion and heavy cramps for several hours after the insertion. But – no spotting, and everything generally has been fine since I got it about 6 months ago.
Anon
I’ll chime in to say that I had the exact opposite with my Nexplanon. I never had spotting or a period after insertion. It differs greatly between people though.
Anonymous
+1 to spotting – insertion was so much less painful than IUD, but I eventually had it removed because the spotting would not stop. Removal was also easy.
Anon
I have had two Nexplanons. Both insertions were easy and quick, I couldn’t believe how fast they were over. The numbing shot beforehand was the most painful part but it wasn’t bad at all. The removal of the first one went fine too. I had a normal period on the first one, but I had been on the pill for well over a decade so I wasn’t surprised that my body didn’t immediately change. I had it removed for a short period after a year (only because my doctor was trying to diagnose something separate and needed me to be hormone free) and on the second one, I have had fewer periods. I hope this helps. I think it’s worth looking into for you.
Anon
Ideas for brunch dishes for people who don’t like runny eggs? I usually make chilaquiles or shakshuka but neither will work with this crowd.
Anon
Quiche
Anon
I like to scramble eggs mixed with whatever veggies and protein I have on hand, liberally seasoned with Trader Joes 21 Salute and topped with cheese. Colorful peppers look great!
Vicky Austin
I made this for my ILs last time they visited and they have requested it again for their visit starting today!
Most of the time HBH recipes are a bit unnecessarily complex for my taste, so I don’t bother getting both cheddar AND gouda if I don’t have them, and I skip the EBTB cause I can’t figure out why it’s in there. But the base concept is delicious and easy.
https://www.halfbakedharvest.com/baked-cheddar-pesto-egg-boats/
PolyD
I made this breakfast strata for my bookclub, which includes people who don’t like eggs. They ate it and I was sad I didn’t have leftovers!
https://www.abeautifulplate.com/vegetarian-breakfast-strata/
Anon
I made a strada for Christmas morning and whenever I have overnight guests. Mine has bacon and cheddar. Gone immediately in the morning!
I prep mine the night before so I can have an easy morning along with everyone else.
Deedee
Quiche for savory. Baked french toast for sweet. I like Pioneer Woman’s recipe, which uses crusty bread. I slightly cut down the white sugar and definitely do NOT serve with maple, as it’s plenty sweet. Lots of fresh fruit on the side.
You could also do a big bagel spread with both sweet and savory bagels and cream cheeses, lox, sliced tomato/onion/lettuce/capers, bacon, fruits.
Senior Attorney
This isn’t a main dish but I promise it will be a crowd-pleaser, maybe with a big batch of scrambled eggs or a crustless quiche: https://www.skinnytaste.com/stuffed-bagel-balls/
Anon
Frittata/Spanish tortilla – they are endlessly flexible (I can vary it to accommodate vegans, vegetarians, gluten free, dairy free, etc.) and they are good at room temperature, which cannot be said for scrambled eggs.
it is my go-to for brunch along with creme brulee french toast and fruit.
IL
It’s funny that every other comment so far still came up with something egg related. Consider that your guests are trying to find a polite way to tell you they don’t like eggs!
How about a bagel, cream cheese and lox platter? A make your own avocado toast bar with bacon, creme fraiche, tomatoes and radishes available? Mini parfaits in ice cream bowls? Big platters of hash browns, fruit salad, and a selection of muffins? There are so many non-egg options.
Anon
Mirena anecdata: Thank you to all who told me how much you love yours. I got mine and I feel great! Insertion was not nearly as bad as I feared (I had really worked it up in my head! I honestly think my first mammogram was worse). I actually said to my gyn, “Wait, that’s it!?”
I’ve felt fine ever since. I wish I’d done it years ago. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
No Face
Congrats. It’s so nice to just never have to think about BC for years.
Anon
Glad you’re liking one! I have it an I’ll never switch to something else. Even if it didn’t work as birth control it would be worth having to not get periods.
Senior Attorney
Hooray!
Anon
Have you been in this situation? Tips? Recently in an after hours professional networking gathering, I was standing in a circle of 5 people and met a man who kept touching me. He touched my arm while talking. Then I raised my wine glass in front of me, and he touched my elbow. I felt very uncomfortable, and I noticed he didn’t touch the man next to him.
I feel disappointed in myself for not speaking up and asking him to keep his hands to himself, but I also recognize our companies do business together. It felt like a weird power play, not like flirting (he was wearing a ring). I’ve felt unsettled the past few days.
Anon
Just move. Go get a drink or go to the bathroom or pretend see someone you need to talk to. Not everything is a power move or needs to be confronted, but you can also use your agency and not stay there.
Anonymous
This. Given the setting, business dynamics and transitory nature of the interaction, it’s not worth it. Genuinely may be oblivious to what he did with no motive behind it. Unless he says something flirty or less than respectful or does more than a casual touch (some folks get too familiar with drinking), I wouldn’t make a scene over it. But I would walk away. It’s what serves you better in that kind of setting.
Honestly, I hate touch. Some people and cultures are overly touchy. Frankly, usually it’s other females that get overly familiar. Just because we’re having cocktails does not mean I want nudging of my shoulder or leaning on me or anything else that other women often do. Better to step away or change where you’re standing, male or female.
Note that this is not the advice I would follow if the touch were somewhere private or if it were accompanied with anything that could be perceived as flirting.
Anon
“not like flirting (he was wearing a ring)”
He was hitting on you; he’s just gross.
No Face
“No touching” and move the conversation forward.
Also, don’t doubt yourself. He was being gross. Married men are perfectly capable of being gross.
Senior Attorney
I love this.
Anonymous
I’ve had good success just removing the hand while talking with a little bit of what I would call a tight smile – lips closed, upward turn of the mouth, the smile does not reach the eyes but you maintain eye contact while you do it. Sometimes with a little squeeze of the hand I am moving. It’s hard to describe because I know on paper that might sound almost flirtatious back but it’s not. But this allows him to save face because he is not confronted with the words “stop touching me “ , and to the outside maybe looks like the end of a handshake or a friendly touch back. It’s not like a slap away or a jerky movement. But I have never had a man touch again after I did that, and it allows the conversation to continue. (I completely support fulling saying “don’t touch me” for the record. I have just in positions where I felt like I couldn’t and this has been what works.
Anonymous
This is not sound advice. If he doesn’t think you’re flirting with him, anyone observing will. Just move away if you are not comfortable saying something.
Anon
I doubt he’d be touching any men like that, just saying.
I’ve put up with a lot of this behavior over the years. Sometimes I think it’s so habitual for them that they don’t even realize they’re doing it so I never took it as overt hitting on me (the men in my work circle tended to be much more direct/me-too ish if they were hitting on me.) But again, you don’t see them doing it to men.
I agree to move out of their range if you’re uncomfortable- and you don’t have to have a justification for being uncomfortable, that is reason enough – and yes, if they follow you around and continue it, call them out. “Please stop touching me.”
I did once call a man a Space Invader (ala the old video game) and he got the message. E
Curious
Where do you get cool T-shirts? I love graphic tees that I find cool or snarky, but Etsy falls prey to the Live Laugh Love / over the top scripty font / this is the shirt version of subway tile phenomenon, and places like Woot have 200 meh designs for every one awesome one. Is there a shortcut here? Any artists you like?
Anon
Red Bubble (my middle schoolers find them snarky enough)
Curious
yup, these are great.
Anon
Nordstrom has tons. Search “women’s graphic tees.” Madewell also sometimes has good ones.
pugsnbourbon
Honestly I’ve found a couple via Instagram! I got a non-work-appropriate sweatshirt from Wicked Clothing (“See you in Hell”). I have a few saved from Atm (architecture/design), and Simka Sol.
Curious
I love the look of Simka Sol.
Marshmallow
The Bee and the Fox
Senior Attorney
I’ve found some at J Crew or Old Navy. And Target has fun ones, too.
Anon
I think “cool” and and “snarky” graphic tees are mutually exclusive, personally.
Senior Attorney
Well, generally I agree. Although I have one that says “tout va bien” (“everything’s fine”) that I think threads the needle nicely.
Curious
Niiiice :)
Curious
Lol, fair. This will out me even more than usual, but my favorite shirt says “sloth hiking club: we will get there when we get there.” Snarky isn’t quite the word, but this is my goal. Maybe it’s self deprecating? Ironic? Definitely totally PG.
Curious
and it’s much prettier than what you get if you just Google that phrase, which is what perplexes me.
Anon
Threadless
Ribena
I ordered a custom one from Rapanui for a Taylor Swift club night I’m going to – I’d do the same if I thought of something snarky I wanted on a tee. Lovely quality and good sourcing credentials
Anon
Busted tees.
Anon
Like this one
https://www.bustedtees.com/products/science-magic-5111
Curious
Nice, they have women’s cuts, too.
Jules
Also look at Society 6, although that’s a time suck. I got my 27-y-o law student kid one from there that says “come back with a warrant.” Which I really want as a doormat …
pugsnbourbon
Here you go: https://www.etsy.com/listing/886321053/come-back-with-a-warrant-door-mat-funny?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=come+back+with+a+warrant+doormat&ref=sc_gallery-1-1&pro=1&frs=1&sts=1&plkey=aa5454dbd1d3c369d7c5361211c6119e0945b32e%3A886321053
Anonymous
Very late, but I have one from Uniqlo that I love. It’s a Waldo tshirt and it says “stand out in a crowd”
Calendars
Does anyone have a dry-erase calendar that they love? I’m looking for something stylish with modern font, approximately 16 x 20.
Anon
I have one that’s almost exactly what you’re describing, but I got it at Target a number of years ago and I have no idea whether they still carry it. It might be worth taking a look. Target consistently has cute office accessories and they kind of fly under the radar with their stuff, IMO.
Anon
Ladies in finance, please help!
I have an opportunity to change jobs in what would be a significant step up for me, but I’m a little bit nervous because the client base would be different. In my current role, I’m pitching to PE and VC professionals, and the new role would be a similar job/skill set but with Hedge Fund principals as the audience.
I’ve been in my current seat for a decade and I’m excited about the step up in compensation and responsibility but I’m nervous about the new audience. I feel like I know the players in the private markets – the reputations, dynamics, etc.
Would you take an opportunity like this if it involved translating your skills to a client base? Any advice for getting up to speed of the hedge fund universe?
The compensation is nearly double what I’m currently making, and I’ve been starting to get frustrated by the lack of upward opportunities at my current company. Do I jump? Or keep playing it safe?
Ses
HF are a weird corner of Alternatives in my experience. They use public market data in ways PE/VC never do, they usually have more demanding security constraints, and their strategies and analysis are less standard from fund to fund.
Also may be worth thinking about how this sector does during recessions and whether you want to be tied to it. There was a bit of a flight from this strategy during the last financial crisis.
My advice would be that if you take the role, don’t be afraid to ask questions and really dig into the particulars of the funds you’re speaking with.
Assuming if you’ve been in this field for so long you may already have CFA or similar – brush up on the HF materials just as a reminder of the terminologies and strategies.
Anon
in finance, agree take the time but add in getting mentors and coaches and start reading HF news and blogs.
Anne-on
Shopping help – I’m looking for a silk/satin bias cut slip skirt, midi length (mid calf), ideally in navy or army green. These were all the rage when I was a 90’s kid and I’m enjoying a bit of fashion nostalgia. The wrinkle – I’m on the shorter side (5’4) and most ‘midi’ skirts are ankle length on me. So far I’ve tried and returned ones from Boden (too long and too much fabric), L’Agence (ditto), Brooks Brothers (too long), Jcrew (oddly thin and cheap feeling in person). A version from MaxMara weekend is stalking my google ads but I would prefer not to spend $300 on what is a trendy (vs. classic) piece. Any other brands or suggestions?
Bette
I think Quince offers skirts like these, haven’t tried one myself so can’t speak to fit or quality. Lower price point than the other brands you mentioned. I recently bought two silk t-shirts from them and have been pleased with them so far.
NYNY
Quince also tends to run short, so may be perfect for you!
PolyD
This seems like a job for Mango or H&M or Express.
Senior Attorney
Honestly I might just find one I like and have it taken up from the waist so ou don’t lose the flare at the bottom.
Anon
+1 Just get one tailored to fit you. Sounds a lot easier than finding one the perfect length right off the rack.
Anonymous
At 5’4, I expect to have to hem skirts and dresses to get my desired length.
Anonymous
Was anyone raised like this or do you know any kids raised like this who are now adults – how did things turn out? NYC couple, DH works in a heavy travel job in consulting, I work in a busy job but with regular hours. The kids went to daycare when young and now are both in elementary school with after care. I get them after I’m done working which is usually 4 or 5 pm. When the kids were younger, we always spent all non work time with them. Some nights obviously just me as DH was on the road, some nights it was all of us. And then they’d go to bed by 7 or 8 pm and DH and I would hang out.
Fast forward 5 or so years and it seems like DH is more “over” dad life. He makes plans for us as if we’re still 28 in city with no kids. I’m talking concerts that start at 8 pm and go until midnight with friends, followed by oh let’s get a drink before we go home and then we’re getting home at 1 or 2 am and are sleepily sending kids off to school the next morning. While I do think it’s fun to live that life and see our friends this way sometimes, IDK something about it seems wrong as a parent. Like our 4th grader will start to understand very soon that mom and dad are out partying and drinking. I’m fine doing things like this a few times a year, whereas DH wants to go out like this a few times per week. He thinks as long as we’ve seen the kids from like 6-8 pm, NBD if they eat dinner and play with a babysitter. He also makes a big fuss about all of our friends coming out with us have kids and they are comfortable with this, while I’m thinking well if all of our friends jumped off a bridge . . . . His view of dad life appears to be that of course you need to be hands on in the years up to preschool but after that eh, if we see them an hour a night and go to a soccer game on Saturday, we’re good to live our lives. FWIW he wasn’t like this when we were having the kids. Thoughts? Anyone grow up like this??
Anon
This sounds horrible to me. Your kids are having a babysitter observe them dinner and put them to bed multiple times per week so you can be out partying? Is he having some sort of midlife crisis?
Anon
I feel so bad for those kids. I don’t think there is anything wrong with parents going out for adult evenings, but multiple times a week is a lot.
I had a different situation, but very much knew my father didn’t want to be a dad. Once my parents separated when I was 5, the divorce order provided that I would see him every other weekend and one evening a week. He would often go out with friends during his weekends or skip the evening, until I got to high school and basically refused to go to his house any longer.
I have basically no relationship with my father as an adult. I see him every few years for a few hours when I’m back in my home town, but don’t visit him every trip to my home town when I spend hours with my mom. My dad has never visited me in the town I have lived in for the last ten years and we never talk on the phone. By contrast, my mom visits me at least once a year and we talk every few days. Child know from a very early age whether their parents have any interest in them.
Anon
I would guess that perhaps he’s stressed by work and wants to blow off steam by drinking/partying.
Anonymous
I’m not in the city so will let others chime in on that but I do have 3 young kids and both DH and I wish we were 28 and still living in the city!
Getting family friends really has helped. We do things with other families that have kids our kids’ age and we all get a change to hang out. Beer gardens, beach days, apple picking, etc.
Also, depending on the ages of your kids, try and develop shared interests with your kids. Have Dad take a kid to a concert or sporting event. My 9 year old and I go to musicals together, DH takes our one kid interested in golfing with him, DH likes hockey so he bring our 12 year old along as the timekeeper. I’m training for a half marathon and I take my 6 year old along on some runs on her bike. Essentially, don’t make it kid stuff vs adult stuff, but things you can do together as a family (or as parts of a family).
Anonymous
Thinking a bit longer term here. I was raised in NYC and once you’re high school age in NYC – you have access to everything – parties, alcohol, and you have a lot more freedom than suburban kids at a younger age because you don’t need to be driven to said parties due to the availability of subways, cabs. It’s very much like a college type of lifestyle in HS if you want it to be and your parents allow it. So think ahead, your 14 year old will know that mom and dad are ok partying and drinking late into the night many times a week, so what is to stop him? And you won’t be home to stop him from leaving if you’re out with your friends, giving him or her the freedom to roam the city doing whatever at very young ages. Is that the future that DH envisions for his kid in about 5 years? Because if he wants his kid to be that studious kid who ends up in b school or med school or whatever, that’s going to be much less likely – though not impossible – once the kid sees the allure of partying. And then once kid 1 is that way, it’s very often that kid 2 follows doing the same thing with their friends.
Anonymous
I agree except that I think people who go to B school and med school (and law school) do tend to be partiers.
Anonymous
I always hoped I would be this parent because it sounded fabulous when I had friends who had parents who did that. But I felt incredibly guilty when we did that. So you do you.
Anon
Well i need waaayyy more sleep than that to function and more downtime so kids aside, this would not work for me. Does DH not travel anymore? Obviously a totally different context but I’d imagine that kids who grow up with parents in really big 24/7 jobs (like if your parent is a politician) might have a similar situation, but i think as a society we treat it differently if the parent is trying to negotiate world peace vs out drinking. Is any of this pent up from the isolation of Covid? Idk what time a 4th grader goes to bed, but can’t you put the kids to bed and then go out for a drink? Or can this be done once a week if desired instead of multiple times? As I said for me, kids aside, this would never work for me and my own needs.
Anonymous
Does your husband actually like your kids? Or even know them?
Anon
I would say bluntly that you want him to work on reconnecting with the kids, and to be more present as a parent. These are precious years,and I don’t think leaving the kids home with a babysitter is bad (I LOVED babysitters when I was a kid). Tell him that the kids are noticing that he is doing the Ward Cleaver, but coming home, sitting in his chair to read a newspaper and leaving all parenting to you, June Cleaver. He needs to take a more active interest in their lives. The kids are not going anywhere for a nearly a decade, so he needs to adjust to fatherhood, and you can still enjoy your city life, but in a different way.
Anon
So I have to say that it seems like some parents don’t really understand how long parenting goes on. We saw it with some of my son’s friends – once the kids hit middle school age, the parents were burned out from too much intensive parenting, or just got bored with being a parent, or wanted to focus on their career or got caught up in a divorce and checked out because “the kids are fine on their own now.” Maybe from the perspective that an 11-year-old can feed themselves and not burn the house down, sure. But middle school and high school years are times when kids need an adult presence because A. they are not capable of always making good, rational decisions for themselves, without input or perspective from an adult and B. when something goes wrong, it really blows up, and they need someone to be there for them to provide love and support. Some really good, nice kids from my son’s elementary days have dropped out of high school and are having issues with drugs because their parents essentially abandoned them to their own devices around age 11/12, and only realized too late what a mistake that was.
Saying all this to say, people need to realize that the active phase of parenting goes on much longer than people think. If OP’s husband has decided “welp, they’re in elementary school so the hands-on period is over” he’s sadly mistaken, and he needs a reality check.
Anonymous
My parents were like this, they just had kids because that’s what adults do, it was the next check mark on their list. I was an entirely independent latchkey kid by 11.
Senior Attorney
This is the 50s parenting model. I will just say that I was raised this way (born in 1958) and had virtually no relationship with my dad at any point in my life until the day he died at age 96.
Aunt Jamesina
If by “partying” you mean drinking until you’re drunk, then the parents I knew growing up who did this typically had drinking problems. And I think it’s really hard to tell your eventual high schoolers to make healthy choices about drinking with any sort of authority when they see their parents drunk rather frequently.
Anon
Yes, and also what happens if there is a kid-related emergency when you are both drunk?
Anon
NGL if my husband had taken this position we would have gone to counseling, and if that didn’t work, we would have gotten a divorce.
I had kids to be with my kids. I had my “going out partying” time of life and consciously and intentionally put off having kids until I felt like I had done what I needed to do there, and was okay moving on from that phase. It sounds like your husband is going through some kind of second adolescence, and frankly needs to grow up. Do not engage with this lifestyle if it’s not comfortable for you. And no, I did not grow up that way but I cannot imagine that having your parents spend a couple of hours a day with you before going out partying every night is healthy. This is almost like those English aristocratic families that let their nannies raise the kids other than the hour or two a day the parents deigned to spend with them. Not a great approach if you want psychologically healthy kids.
Anon
+1 to your first paragraph. This would be a “counseling and then if counseling doesn’t fix the issue, divorce” situation for me too.
anon
My parents’ were a bit like this, only they were working and volunteering, not partying. Regardless, I had some abandonment issues I had to work through in therapy as an adult.
DH’s parents were big partiers. DH’s dad, now 70-something, still invites him or both of us out several times per week. We decline the vast majority of the invitations to prioritize family time, and DH’s dad is bewildered by that. I’d estimate that we go out to a party together once or twice per month, and each go out separately twice per month. (It’s not always late-night drinking though–DH goes to sports events, I have brunch with friends, we each have hobbies and volunteer occasionally.)
I sympathize with your husband. I enjoy going out and being around friends and attending community events. My son is an introvert and has sensory processing disorder, so we have to be selective about taking him out with us–no crowds, no loud noises or loud music, etc. I often feel sad that I’m missing out on certain things, especially this time of year, when the weather is lovely and there are tons of small events going on. I tell myself that my kid, who’s 7 now, is only going to be home for 10.5 more years, and he’s probably only going to voluntarily speak to me for about 5 more years. So, I coach myself to relax and enjoy life with my child, as it is today. Right now, that means building Lego projects, reading Dogman comics, listening to him talk about his interests, and planning activities like hiking, canoeing, camping, or just trips to the farmer’s market or park.
Anon
I grew up like this and loved it. My parents had a life, didn’t helicopter, and are really well functioning adults in their older age with a lot of friends. Never any guilt or pressure on me to do any particular things because their life didn’t revolve around kids. We got plenty of attention and care, it just wasn’t all the time.
Anon
My best friend had a similar childhood, although her parents weren’t big drinkers. But they were out with friends without her or at the theater or arts events at least three nights a week. Her parents had kids fairly late (40ish), only had one, and she felt strongly that she wasn’t really wanted. My (obviously somewhat uninformed) opinion is that that’s not true, and they did want her, they just didn’t really know how to interact with kids and so they avoided her instead of trying to figure it out. We lived in a small Midwest city, where I think this kind of thing is less common than in NYC or another coastal big city. Family dinners at 5:30-6 pm and family time in the evenings were definitely the norm among our classmates and peers until kids got driver’s licenses at 16 and started spending way more time out of the house. My friend felt very lonely and abandoned and to this day has a very rocky relationship with her folks. I think one of the reasons we became such close friends is that she loved my family life. I’m also an only child but my parents were at the opposite end of the spectrum and were basically home with me whenever they weren’t at work. (There’s obviously a happy medium here and I’m not suggesting parents should forego all date nights or anything like that.) Now that I’m a parent it’s even more unfathomable to me. Why even have a kid if you don’t want to spend any time with them? Parenting can be challenging and exhausting and frustrating for sure, but I get weepy thinking about how it feels like just yesterday that my 5 year old was born. She’s going to be in college in the blink of an eye. 18 years is nothing on the scale of an ~80 year lifespan (and it’s even fewer years where they actively want to spend time with you, as someone else noted) and personally I don’t understand not trying to soak up that time with them when you can and they adore you.
KP
He’s an alcoholic looking for drinking buddies.
Anon
It feels like this to me, too.
South American girl
As a counter point to other readers, I was raised like that (though my parents were mostly working instead of partying, so that might change their own feelings about it) and it was perfectly fine. I am incredibly close to both my folks. My dad traveled a lot when I was in middle/high school. I missed him a lot, and I’m sure it was a very heavy burden on my mother, who also had a big job and often worked late (we had a full-time nanny while I was growing up and I was never more attached to her than to mom and dad), but we had and still have a great relationship. I admired their careers and knew they both worked on things they were passionate about and provided greatly for our family. They always gave me plenty of attention when they were around and were involved in my life. The point is, if you go out 3 times a week, what are you doing on the other 4 nights? Your husband needs to pull his weight then. Also, let the children tag along when possible. I loved those glimpses into the adult world and have fallen asleep on two aligned restaurant chairs many times with no trauma (not on school nights).
For comparison, my younger sister, who is in high school now that my parents are semi-retired, doesn’t seem to be any closer to them or more well adjusted.
That said, it sounds like a problem to you and that is fair. You don’t need to accompany your husband every time (it does sound exhausting), and you’re well within your rights to ask him to cut way back.
Anon
I think working is very different than partying and your situation isn’t really analogous.
Karen
So, this sounds worse than yelling at your kids! I found that as my son grew into his teenage years, he needed me home more than ever, even if he was out with his friends. I started to think that, hey, he is at a function so I can go to happy hour. But that would be when he would call me with some project crisis. As they get older, they need to know that homebase is the same and always there, no matter what.
Anon
I agree! I come from a family of yellers (in a “I’m going to state my points in a loud volume” way, not a “I’m going to demean you and call you names” way – there’s definitely a difference) and this sounds so so so much worse to me than frequent yelling!
Anon
Can anyone share their oversleeping stories to make me feel less mortified?! I sustained an injury recently and was prescribed muscle relaxers yesterday. I took them for the first time last night. This morning, I slept in until 10:20 by accident and woke up to messages from my boss’s boss that were sent at 8:15. She needed me to do something. I responded right away and apologized for the delay. She immediately called me to talk through the item she needed done. She said it was fine but omg embarrassment city. This actually happened under different circumstances back in early July so I’m terrified she remembers that and thinks this is a recurring problem! Aaargh. When have you overslept?
Anon
I’m a champion sleeper. I have slept through both an earthquake and a fire alarm. After a few incidents of sleeping late, I starting using an app called Alarmy which makes you do a task (like math problems) to turn off the alarm. I don’t sleep through that.
Cat
does she know you were sleeping? What if you were at a dr’s appointment and not looking at your phone.
MagicUnicorn
I tend to wake up without an alarm clock almost all of the time, but the few times I have needed a muscle relaxer they knocked me out cold. My relationships with my bosses are such that I would have no qualms letting them know I am on a temporary medication that packed an unexpected punch, apologize, then move on and laugh about if it ever came to mind again. Is that something you can do for your own peace of mind?
Anon
I did tell her that I had an injury and was prescribed medication that knocked me out, and that’s when she assured me it was fine, but I also have social anxiety and general anxiety so I’m probably overreacting! I was/am just very embarrassed.
MagicUnicorn
Easier said than done, but you can let it go. We have all – ALL – done this and it’s not an issue.
There are a couple of times in my life where I got my days of the week mixed up and thought either Friday was Saturday, or that Monday was Sunday and was late to school or work because a classmate or boss called to check on me. While I know I was mortified when I did this, they are each just minor, fuzzy memories now.
Anon
Thank you for this!
Anon
You are injured, you took a medication prescribed by a doctor, and it had some unanticipated side effects. Unless your boss’s boss is a monster, I would take her assurance that it’s fine at face value. You are fine.
Here’s my lateness story. At my first job: one night there was a snowstorm just coming in as I was leaving and getting home was exhausting, cold, and wet. I completely overslept my alarm the next morning and I missed my normal train, the technically-late-but-no-one-cares train, and the definitely-late-something-is-wrong train. I called my boss to say how sorry I was and got there around 10:45 or 11 I think? I was sure he was going to fire me (and I would never get a job again because I had been fired, and then I would have to move back home and depend on my parents forever because of my abject professional failure to launch – thanks at-the-time-untreated anxiety for presenting that scenario to me!) because I had no context for the severity of these things whatsoever. Instead he was glad to see me and completely understanding of the situation, and told me it was fine. It was fine. You are fine.
Senior Attorney
Some years ago I was put on an antidepressant that made me sleep like a rock for hours and hours and hours, even though that wasn’t one of the warned-of side effects. Normally I would wake up at 6:30 and be at work at 8:30. One morning I was awakened from the sleep of the dead by a call from my assistant at 9:40, wondering why in the heck I wasn’t there for my 9:30 meeting. Argh.
FWIW, that was about 10 years ago and I’m still here so it wasn’t fatal.
Anon
We may work at different types of companies, but I would be surprised if my boss expected an instant response. Two hours seems fine?
Anonymous
Help me problem solve (or tell me there is no good solution).
We live in New England. DH is an only child and his parents live in Dallas. We have 4 kids ages 2-10. In laws want to see us on holidays (Christmas, Thanksgiving). In-laws’ house technically can fit our family, but it is REALLY tight (they have a guest room and an office with a pull-out couch). It’s a lot of people in a small space. We could get a hotel, but we’d need 2 rooms and have to rent a car and drive back and forth, and MIL bristles at the idea. Traveling anywhere with our kids is always a pain, but on holidays it’s especially a pain (and especially expensive).
We have tons of space in our home (full guest suite). FIL will not fly to us and MIL is not interested in leaving him home to fly and spend the holiday with us. I’ve tossed out the idea of meeting somewhere and renting a big house we can all stay in together for the holidays, but that didn’t get any interest. I’ve also suggested we go during a 4 day weekend or other break time to get a visit in that’s not the worst week of the year to travel (does not solve the where-to-stay issue but makes a quick down-and-back trip cost less than $5k).
Before the pandemic, we only had 2 kids (and only one in “real” school) and a tiny baby, and DH’s grandmother was still alive, so we white-knuckled the trip and made it work. Now we have 4 kids that sleep in beds and get their own seat on an airplane.
Ideas?
FWIW DH has thrown out to his parents that if they want to see more of us, he can fly solo down there (“but the grandkids!”) and/or they could consider buying a second home closer to us (they have the means to do this).
Anon
Stay in the hotel. MIL can deal. Does she want to see you or not?
Vicky Austin
+1. Get the hotel or stay home. DH should tell her those are the options.
Anonymous
OP here. That was our thinking, though it’s just…ugh. Between flights, cars, hotels, and misc meals it’s nearly 10k to get down there for a holiday AND it doesn’t check the box of what they actually want AND the kids complain because it’s not a vacation nor a fun time at grandma’s. It’s like the kid equivalent of a Work Trip.
It’s really hard because my parents are divorced. My mom moved to our town and has a 3BR house so the kids sleep over there a lot. My dad is a 2 hour drive away which is a day trip OR a sleepover and when we stay there, my dad has a good setup for guests (two spare rooms but also a large finished basement with pull outs for the older kiddos). My sister and brother love having us visit and don’t give two hoots if we stay in a hotel.
Anonymous
They come to you or they don’t see you.
Anon
+1. If your in-laws are still healthy enough to travel, they should come to you most of the time given that there are no other children. Would your DH agree to visit them once a year, not necessarily during a holiday, and that they would have to travel to you for any other visits?
Senior Attorney
Yup. “So sorry, ILs, but we just can’t manage a plane flight with four little kids.”
Mrs. Jones
Definitely.
Anon
Yes this. At a certain point with my kids I said “Christmas is here. Santa comes to our house, down our chimney. You are welcome to join us” and that was it. I don’t care how much your MIL whines. Express your boundaries and stick to them.
Anon
I think I prioritize family more than most white Americans but I don’t think having four kids is an excuse to never travel to see family at major holidays. Your oldest kid is at least 8, right (if they were in real school before the pandemic?) so it’s not like you have four babies and toddlers to wrangle. I would travel and get a hotel.
Anon
It sounds like part of the problem is MIL does not want them at a hotel. She wants them at her house
Anon
Yeah, and I think she can suck that up and deal with them being at a hotel. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to just opt out of the travel completely because MIL would prefer they be at her house.
Anonymous
MIL’s preferences and FIL’s refusal to travel don’t make it OK that they are asking their son and his wife to spend $10K schlepping 6 people across the country. The grandparents are no longer the leaders of the family. The generation with jobs and kids at home is in charge and gets to call the shots.
Anon
I prioritize family too but traveling with 4 kids (youngest is 2!) is hard hard. OP – please draw a boundary and spend Christmas at home. You and your kids deserve it
Anon
Your in-laws are the problem. Does FIL not fly at all? I recently met a lovely woman on my plane from ny to Houston who also lives in TX and was returning from babysitting the granddaughter of her only son. I asked if her son would be visiting her for the holidays and she said no bc it doesn’t make sense for them to deal with all the flight delays and travel so far at the busiest times of year. One question for you is would you feel differently if your in-laws were paying for it since it sounds like they have the means. Though that still doesn’t solve the sleeping issue
Cat
We lived a flight away from grandparents. We went at non-holidays to see them. If they wanted holiday time, they traveled to us for exactly the reasons you mention.
Anon
So, I think this is the point where you lay out the options for them and see what they will take you up on them – I’d only give options that you can live with (for example, if you just simply do not want to travel during the holiday rush with four kids, which would be my hard line, then don’t even offer it as an option). First, could they pay for your travel/hotel to visit? Would that make it more palatable? If they have the means to purchase a second home near you, then this doesn’t seem outlandish to me. Second, depending on the age of your kids, could your husband take 1 or 2 to visit the parents and you do something else? Not sure you’d want to split up on the holidays. Third, your big vacation house idea is great. I’d present this as one of the options. (Or have husband do that). But also, you can’t please everyone and I think you’ve presented some very reasonable solutions to the problem that your inlaws have given you.
Notinstafamous
How good are the in laws with the kids? Anecdata but when I was a kid my siblings and I stayed with my grandparents while my parents stayed in a hotel room over the holidays. They would come join us for lunch and then leave after dinner – we thought it was fun to be with the grandparents, and I assume my grandparents enjoyed kid time and my parents enjoyed no-kid time.
Anonymous
OP here- I wish! My in laws are very nice and caring, but are overwhelmed by our children. They can do one of the older ones (6,10) but not both, and not any of the younger ones (4,2) solo. I think a large part of this is that they had ONE child, and are now 20+ years into retirement (they are 75&80) and move at a slow pace.
I think exploring a hybrid set up for a non-holiday visit is a great idea (maybe one adult head to the hotel to put the little two down, one adult tuck the older two in at grandma’s, then come to the hotel), though isn’t the same as MIL’s vision of having everyone for Christmas.
Hmm
That vision just really isn’t reasonable or fair. What about your desire for your kids to have holiday memories in your own home?
Flying across the country on a holiday weekend with four kids so that two adults who are capable of traveling don’t have to travel seems like—a lot. Of course she’d rather you come to then. Very few people *want* to be the ones to have to travel at the holidays.
I suspect that until you really take the idea of you coming to them every single year off the table, they’re not going to be interested in finding another solution.
Anon
In my opinion, Christmas should be in the children’s home. I always had to spend Christmas in a home other than my own and I hated it. Just someone else’s perspective to keep in mind.
PolyD
Yep. We alternated Christmas with grandparents and they were relatively local (each one about an hour’s drive away) but I think it really wore in my parents especially when we were little. They had to tear us away from our new toys and get us fed and dressed and in the car in Christmas morning.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who refuse to fly, barring a true physical condition that makes it impossible. I especially don’t have a lot of sympathy for grandparents who refuse to fly to see grandkids when they have the time and money to do so, it seems very selfish.
Anon
+1 have the two older kids stay with the grandparents. They will be excited to have their own room etc. The grandparents can help with their meals. (The 10yo is old enough to pour out morning cereal and milk for him/herself and sibling). You will get there with the 2 younger ones after breakfast. You will spend the day together and get back to your hotel in the evening.
You do one trip per year to their location and they do one trip per year to see you.
Hmmm
I think it’s totally reasonable to say, we are doing holidays at home right now. Make sure they know they’re welcome to join you.
Anonymous
Pick the holidays you are willing to travel to them which is either Christmas or thanksgiving but never both, for starters! And book the hotel you very clearly need and let her bristle.
Anon
I would not want to pay for a family of 6 to fly that far and get a hotel, etc. I’d offer to pay for their flights to the UK but if they are healthy enough it’s much easier to have two people fly out than 6.
anon
Honestly, I think you need to shut this down and stop twisting yourself into knots. It’s totally unreasonable that the wishes of two grandparents should make four children travel and spend Christmas outside of their own home. The issue here is that the grandparents are seeing themselves as the primary family unit here and your husband as the child in question. That is no longer the state of affairs. You should tell them you’ll be spending Christmases as a family at the children’s home. If they want to join, they are most welcome and you’ll pay for their flights. You can make some other random holiday a tradition where you visit the grandparents but you’re considering making your children’s christmases worse to appease these irrational adults.
Anon
+1
Anon
+1
Anon
Your kids are at the age where you want to start establishing Christmas as a holiday at home where they make memories with each other in your house. I am the youngest of 4 who had grandparents who lived in other states and I’m so thankful that my parents put their foot down and made Christmas be at our house, where it was a familiar event each year and I knew what was coming. We visited grandparents during the summer. Tell your in-laws that you are establishing Christmas time at home with 4 young, growing children and that they are invited and welcome to come. Otherwise, you’ll see them another time. The End.
Anon
Been there. Done that. Had sick kids from traveling on planes in winter and spent 12 hours in an airport.
Repeat after me:
I am sorry but the days when it was easier for us to visit you than for you to visit us are over. There are six of us and the air fare alone is $**** over the holidays, along with a substantial risk of getting stuck in an airport with four kids. * of whom have to be in school Monday morning. We would love to see you, but if you want to celebrate Thanksgiving with us, then you will need to come here.
I am all about the family obligations but unless FIL is physically unable to travel, this is ridiculous.
anonmi
Another vote to shut this down and establish Christmas traditions with your kids in your own home. You could invite the grandparents to be part of that, or it may also be an option that the grandparents come just after Christmas and stay until New Years or until the kids go back to school after break. It’s really not fair to the kids (or to you and your husband) to spend thousands of dollars and go through the hassle of traveling during one of the busiest times of year. Unless your kids get the whole Thanksgiving week off school, I feel like that break is too short to justify making the effort for the trip. I’d also recommend picking another holiday that’s less travel heavy to be the traditional time you haul everyone down to visit them. Maybe Memorial Day or July 4th.
anon
Why won’t your FIL fly? Because the obvious solution here is for your in-laws to fly to see you.
My other suggestion, if you’re willing to travel in theory, would be for your in-laws to pay for or share the cost of your travel. And if they want to all stay together, look into renting a large house in or near Dallas where there are beds for everyone. A bed for everyone is non-negotiable.
FWIW, I am an only child. My parents live in another state, about a 10-hour drive away. We have agreed that neither of us will travel for Thanksgiving because of the stress. My parents drive to see us after Christmas (they leave around the 27th) and stay through New Years’. We travel to see them about once a year, not around major holidays, and sometimes stay in their condo, which is a little tight, and sometimes stay in a timeshare in a resort area.
Anon
I thought society had largely moved past the DP except for extreme radicals, but I’m finding so many people are coming out with their pro-DP opinions after the Parkland verdict yesterday. Am I wildly out of touch, or do I just happen to be surrounded by lots of pro-DP people? I’m also seeing so many pro-DP reactions on left leaning news networks.
Anon
DP???
Anon
Death penalty
Anon
Yes, thank you. I figured it would put me in mod
Anon
I live in a red state and honestly don’t know general statistics of the support of the death penalty. I say that to mean I don’t know which of us has the more common experience.
I’m against the DP in all cases, and I have a few friends who also are, but we are in the minority even within my very progressive friend group. Most people I know are in favor of it in certain cases. This is true across all kinds of other political opinions, in my experience.
NYC
A lot of people with anti-DP views point to the lack of certainty that the accused committed the crime. Here, that mental barrier is removed
anon
I’m a longtime anti death penalty activist, and regret to inform you that yes, you are out of touch – most people, if you look at it nationally, are supportive of the death penalty in at least some circumstances, including murders of children and murder involving a s*x crime. I’m not surprised many people hoped for capital punishment to be imposed here, given the heinous crime and the lack of any dispute over whether he did it.
Anonymous
Completely agree. I’m anti DP in all circumstances. But I’m not out and being loud about that in response to a terrible person getting life in prison. I do think it was the right result but antagonizing hurting people isn’t necessary or compassionate or useful.
Anonanon
This is a very thoughtful response, and I especially agree with your last sentence.
Monte
I don’t know what you mean by “society,” but statistics say a majority of Americans support the death penalty, though it is a slight majority.
Even if you are staunchly anti-death penalty (I am), you likely recognize that Cruz is someone who is going to warrant the death penalty for anyone who is not deeply opposed to capital punishment. Unsurprising that someone whose guilt has been known for four and half years has elicited this vocai a response.
Anon
Like anything else, what people say to pollsters, what they think about something in theory, and how they feel about it in a specific situation are three different issues.
anon
Honestly, I probably fit this bill. I am generally supportive of the death penalty in theory, although I think in some states including mine it’s doled out too liberally. intellectually I find it cruel and unusual punishment and find it hard to rationalize. I guess that makes me conflicted, but I find myself more often coming down on the side of being ok with it.
Anonymous
I’m against the death penalty in principle because of the chance it could be wrong , the misapplication , and how racism plays a part in how and who is sentenced. I would vote against it on my ballot , for example. That being said I wouldn’t have lost a wink of sleep if Cruz got the death penalty.
Anon
This is an example of you living in a bubble where you only talk to people who agree with you on this issue. There is a solid majority in this country who are in favor of the death penalty in murder cases.
I am theoretically opposed to it and vote accordingly, but will certainly admit that there was a case near where I live where someone was executed for kidnapping, raping and murdering a little girl and I would have voted for the death penalty if I had been on the jury. Because as much as I have issues with the possibility of wrongful conviction, the racial disparity and its application to felony murders, sadists who hurt children and old people for fun are my exceptions.
Trish
I would like to take this as an opportunity to congratulate the incredible public defender team that represented Mr. Cruz against all odds. Amazing work.
Anonymous
Are you serious?
Vicky Austin
My office looks directly across the hall into my coworker’s. For a few months at the beginning of my time here, that office was empty and our department admin (who doesn’t have a private office of her own) would step into it to take a personal phone call about once a day. I’m in the office today; my coworker is out in the field, and the admin has gone into coworker’s office to talk on the phone. Should I mention this to my coworker? To someone else? Is this weird?
Anon
Nah. MYOB. For all you know, your coworker gave her permission to use the office when she’s not there.
Ribena
Why is this a problem? I’ve ducked into all sorts of spaces at the office to make personal phone calls (or even professional ones about confidential things). When you don’t have your own private workspace, this is one of the downsides.
Vicky Austin
Just felt weird. Appreciate the gut check!
MagicUnicorn
I don’t think you need to tattle, but you could tell the colleague whose office it is that since the space was empty until they joined, people without a private office had made it their go-to spot for private calls. You notice that still happens on occasion and wanted to give them a heads-up in case they weren’t aware. NBD if they are cool with it, but that gives them the chance to shrug and not care, put away confidential documents and the like if appropriate, or look into it further themselves if they are not on board.
MagicUnicorn
I should be clear: at my office, we have several small, private rooms specifically for people who don’t have a door so they can take private calls. Before we had those, you had to duck into a stairwell or quiet hallway but even then it would have been frowned upon to use someone else’s office without their okay.
Anne-on
I think this is pretty normal. I work at home now but my past few companies all had hot desking/hoteling as the only options for folks below MD level so if you wanted to make a private call and all the ‘team rooms’ were taken you just stepped into someones empty office (though it was good manners to check with their EA first).
Anon
I think mentioning it would just make you look like the office tattletale. It’s possible this admin already mentioned to the colleague that they have used that office for private calls and the colleague is okay with it. If you see the admin looking through drawers, etc. then I would tell colleague.
Anonymous
Why are you wanting to be a nosy tattle tale?
Anonymous
Perfectly normal and in fact the proper thing to do. Much better than taking a personal call from her desk/cube. It would be weird if she were sitting in there for hours or going through the desk drawers.
Anon
You mean an adult needed a private place to have a quick phone call during the day and went into and empty office? Was she going through files or lounging in there? I’m shocked that you find this inappropriate. She’s an adult and maybe needed to have a private conversation with a doctor. I’ve done that plenty of times.
Anonymous
Yeah, hate to pile on the OP but I find it super weird that you think this is inappropriate.
Anon
+1 – I’ve also expressly told my admin they can use my office whenever I’m not there
pugsnbourbon
This is 100% a normal thing, I have done it myself many times.
anonmi
This may just be an office culture thing, but at my office, it’s generally understood that if one of the senior leaders who has actual walls and a door is out that day, their office is open to be used for small meetings, quick personal phone calls, etc. Unless there is a very different culture in your office, I wouldn’t say anything unless she’s in there obviously snooping around or being disruptive somehow.
Anon
I disagree with everyone else on the appropriateness of this – I think this is super weird! But I agree not to tell the person. That will just get you a reputation as office tattletale.
Anon
I have a private office and many people in my office either share open space or share an office. When I’m not there, people regularly come in to change clothes or make a personal call. To the extent I’m aware of it I encourage them to use it, relax on my couch, use my conference table for meetings etc. I’ve let someone I barely know use my office to pump when there was a schedule issue with the pumping room (a mutual friend arranged it). It just seems like the right thing to do for those who don’t have the comfort of a private office. Others did the same for me when I was junior — when I was pregnant, I regularly took naps on my boss’s couch when he was away for meetings or lunches (with his blessing!). Confidential documents should be put away and computers should be locked any time you’re leaving your desk for more than a bathroom/water break.
Anonymous
where are my plant people?
I want to get my dad and his girlfriend a houseplant for christmas. They live in Connecticut on the water. Nothing massive- they have an adorable home that is well decorated but doesn’t have a ton of room for large corner plants or anything.
Very flexible budget. This can be $$$ or $.
Cat
errr I’d tread cautiously here. If they don’t have plants now, are they plant people? Do you visit them such that if the plant died they’d feel obligated to replace it? I enjoy gardening outdoors but have no indoor houseplants bc they seem more finicky.
Anon
I would go to a nice local nursery and browse, but if you can’t for some reason Logee’s is a good nursery with an online store. If you’re looking for specific plant recommendations, an Aglaia odorata (Chinese perfume plant) is a fun houseplant. Amaryllis are also always nice at that time of year.
Anon
agree amaryllis or paperwhite. gorgeous then can be gone
Anon
Agree with the suggestion to make sure they actually want a plant before buying them one.
That said, I love pothos because they can thrive in all kinds of light conditions, are tolerant of inconsistent watering once they get established, and there are some really cool varietals now where the leaves are bicolored or variegated and they provide a lot of visual interest. But mostly it’s the low-maintenance aspect. It is really hard to kill a pothos.
pugsnbourbon
Snake plants and ZZ plants are pretty indestructible and can handle low light. I’m huge fan of pothos because they grow fast and are easy to propagate. I’d actually avoid succulents – they’re not always as easy as they’re made out to be!
Anon
I kill succulents like I’m getting paid to do so. I finally just gave up.
Anon8
Perhaps this is a basic suggestion but I’d go with a big snake plant since you can put them anywhere and they’re basically impossible to mess up.