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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Cowl-Neck Top

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A woman wearing a white sleeveless top, black belt, and blue jeans

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Banana Republic Factory has done it again with this gorgeous cowl-neck top. Something has happened in the last few years with the lower-priced outlet arms of Banana Republic and J.Crew. They used to be significantly lower in quality, with a less robust selection of items. Today, they seem to have upped the quality and added some really chic selections.

This top looks like it would be a great basic to add to your collection, and it comes in five colors.

The top is $39 — with an extra 20% off your purchase at checkout — and comes in regular sizes XXS–XXL and petite sizes XXS–XL.

Sales of note for 4/24/25:

  • Nordstrom – 7,710 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event: 30% off your entire purchase, including 100s of new arrivals
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off
  • Boden – 25% off everything (ends 4/27) (a rare sale!)
  • The Fold – Up to 25% off
  • Eloquii – Spring Clearance: Up to 75% off + extra 50-60% off sale
  • J.Crew – Mid-Season Sale: Up to 60% off sale styles + up to 50% off summer-ready styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 50% off clearance + extra 15% off $100 + extra 20% off $125
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – 3 pieces for $198. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Friends & Family Event: 30% off entire purchase, includes markdowns

306 Comments

  1. With WFH and working remotely, have any of you run into state tax audits trying to tax you in a place you were visiting (and possibly doing some remote work but on trips that are not designed as work trips)?

    I work in State A and have a license there and an office / home there (2 separate places). To help a family member, I will likely spend a week a month in State B, where I’m also licensed and where my employer has an office (but it is not near where I will be and am not planning to go there). I am planning to go when work will be light, although I won’t officially take time off b/c if an issue arises, I will just handle from the road. I wonder if State B will want $ and how to handle pro-actively. If it matters, I’m married and spouse will stay with kids/dog in State A and his job does not have locations in State B. The states are a plane ride away, but State B is in the northeast where I understand they can get aggressive over things like this.

    1. I mean look up the state tax residency requirement for State B but 183 days or more (6 months) is the typical point where states start caring.

      1. I know that that works for snowbirds, but transient earners (pro athletes, touring bands) are not taxed based on that rule. It seems that there is a “but if you make $ here, you pay taxes here” rule lurking in the back for non-residents. Yes?

      2. That’s the rule for being taxed as a resident, but you can still be taxed as a nonresident if you earn money there.

        1. +1 the non-resident taxing is usually based on income earned, and the threshold is pretty low. I once had to file non-resident income taxes in my home state (Iowa) just because of bank interest.

    2. Look at the state B income tax site. NY would tax you but only for income from a New York source.

          1. Yeah, I am totally confused as to how this would be discovered, if people didn’t report it.

            Some folks on this s!te just look for things to get anxious about, I swear

        2. I feel like NY was trying to get all people working upstate during the pandemic or even if working somewhere with no income tax (FLA). Did I not read stories about where the audits were of payrolls and that trickled down to employees? They aren’t going to look at employees unless they snag you in something bigger (employer). So if you work for a big employer, maybe be a bit nervous.

          1. ok but if OP is helping a family member in state B for a week per month, would that even be reflected in the employer’s records? It’s not like she is going to change her address of residence with HR — she maintains her home in state A and is there most of the time.

        3. I don’t think state taxing authorities have the bandwidth to subpoena and review IP data for all workers they suspect might be occasionally crossing state lines to work in their state. It would be a huge investment for a very small amount of additional taxes.

      2. This was my thought as well. Unless you’re swiping into the State B local office or making purchases with a company card how would your employer or the government know to investigate you?

          1. OMG get over yourself! I think law enforcement and state taxation divisions have more important tasks than figuring out if someone who worked for ONE WHOLE WEEK in the state owes taxes. This is not an issue unless someone chooses to make it an issue for themselves. Some people need hobbies or Xanax, in the worst way.

          4. It’s not ONE WHOLE WEEK. It is nearly 25% of an employee’s work weeks over the course of a year. That is not trivial.

          5. I’m an ex-lawyer and wouldn’t be comfortable doing what OP is proposing without following the local tax rules. I agree one week total is very different than one week a month.

    4. I ran into that when I used to consult. I live in PA but had a client in NJ and worked there for probably 4 months, consecutively. It was over the threshold for NJ state income tax (I cannot remember what it was but I think it involved consecutive days. I know there’s another 183 day rule which affects people working out of their shore houses). It ended up not mattering because the states had reciprocity, but if I needed to pay tax I would have had help from my employer. If you’re just working remotely 1 week a month, I doubt it will matter and even if it did nobody would ever find out.

    5. Are you a W-2 employee or a shareholder/owner? When I was in biglaw, we had to note on our time reports what state we worked in when traveling. The firm then, I assume, paid tax if enough money was earned in the state. I never had to pay income taxes to other states, but I also probably never worked more than 20 days in any state besides my home.

      1. This. We are required to report where we work our time and have to certify weekly it’s allocated to the correct tax jurisdictions. I have previously had to file non-resident tax returns due to working in PA and IL for what probably added up to 2-3 months total of a year. If you’re in the state for 1 week/month, it could trigger filing requirements. But like others have said, I would seriously doubt the states have the bandwidth to track you down and pursue that. But it may be a compliance issue with your firm if you’re reporting the wrong work location.

        1. This is 100 percent accurate. I work for very large global org and we are taxed for every business trip to other states and I have to file other state returns. It’s based on business trip travel info and we have to validate the days worked in other states. To the responders above who don’t know employment tax law, I recommend you do your homework.

    6. Why not just ask your employer? Are you required to tell them when you leave your home while working remotely?

      1. It’s very common for employers to require notification and/or permission if you’ll be working out of state for more than a certain number of days per year. Presumably for this reason.

        1. Makes sense of course.

          Maybe there are a lot of people who now work from home now, and don’t tell their company when they travel and work at other locations for periods of time. Maybe that’s ok at their company/firm, or maybe they just assume/hope their company will not find out. My brother’s company has a bit of a problem with this exact issue, as there are tax and insurance implications for his employer as well. In fact, they actually have a rule that you must get permission before all travel out of the state/out of the country if you are not on vacation and are still working full time. Yet, they have employees that openly break this rule, and one employee that has actually lived in a distant foreign country for years (open “secret”) that they are struggling with dealing with.

          Not sure why the OP wouldn’t just tell her job. Maybe she’s concerned they may want her to take FMLA for the period of time she is with her elderly relatives. Hard to say if that might be appropriate or if she could find a compromise, as she may really be able to get her full time work done too. Or maybe her company has vague “rules” that she is hoping to slip around. But I agree with the posters that this absolutely has tax implications, so her company should know as they will need to file appropriately, and by trying to hide it you are knowingly potentially committing tax fraud.

          I mean… just because you can get away with something, doesn’t mean you should. That’s kind of a terrible way to live your life, and makes me think about many problems with our current society.

          But I love the idea of what the OP would like to do, and I hope she can make it work. I am actually kicking myself that I didn’t think about asking other family members to try doing something like this when I was struggling with taking care of my aging parents on alone, since I was local.

  2. I was emboldened by a few comments yesterday… Which, by the way, thank you SO much for bolstering me, Internet strangers. I sent that email. I want it to live in his inbox and should he ever search my name in life I want that email to come up. I want that email to stew in his archive.

    we had a brief conversation after I sent it (& as background – conversations *have been had* over the last 6 mo) and will continue to have more, but the thing is done!

    ~ Happy Friday Barbies (go see it NOW)

    4. You are amazing, good for you. I hope this is the first step to the life you deserve – treat yourself to all of your favorite things this weekend!

    6. Hooray! I was thinking about you this morning in the shower and hoping there would be a positive update!! Go, you!! Life is SO MUCH BETTER over here on the other side!

    9. So proud of you!! Thank you for posting, I was thinking of you and hoping you were able to do it.

  3. What’s your go-to trick for re-engaging your motivation (to do any work…)?

    I am definitely in that mid-summer slump when I just want to be on vacation! I like my job, but would also love to throw my computer and firm phone into the lake for a week (haha). It has been all about the bare minimum this week.

    1. Change of scenery, crunchy snack, intentional break for five minutes (like NOT ALLOWED TO THINK ABOUT WORK break). Tackle easiest things first. Switch to paper if it’s feasible for the task at hand.

    2. -Making a paper list and having the satisfaction of crossing things off. I have been known to do this mid-morning and include things already completed just for the joy of it…
      -Thinking about how nice the weekend or upcoming trip will be if I just power through and then don’t have to worry about being behind

    3. Using some kind of pomodoro method app (I like Focus Keeper) and listening to energizing music.

    4. Giving myself more mental rest when I’m not working by (1) taking real lunch breaks away from my computer and phone; and (2) scheduling a yoga class or baseball game after work. The intentionally slower pace of those activities calms my brain and marks a real shift from the frantic workday. Then I’m well rested enough to gear back up the next day and get some work in.

    6. I think it’s totally fine to have a summer slump. I’d cope by setting more modest daily goals (i.e., send out the most important emails, get the ball rolling on a new project but do not actually start it, etc.)

  4. I need some advice. I’m 12 weeks pregnant and planning on telling my boss soon- we’re fully remote. I’m trying to think through the timing. We’re traveling to see a client during week 14 so I figured I would tell him the week before. The wrinkle is that my new three levels up boss started this week and my boss meeting new big boss the day before we travel to our client meeting. My worry would be that the first thing big boss learns about me when they’re meeting is that I’m pregnant rather than my good reputation within the firm? Conversely, I’m still having morning sickness some days so I’m worried that if I need to step out of client meeting to throw up and haven’t told my boss- that’ll be a bad look. There will be almost no time when I’m alone with my boss in person before the client meeting. Would you tell before or after?

    1. With that level of morning sickness to manage, I’d reach out sooner vs later.

      And great-grandboss is taking in a lot of new info, so I wouldn’t sweat that too much. If everyone is remote, you’re still just a face on a screen to him/her most likely.

    2. As far as first impressions go, I would rather have it be “Ella is a great part of the team and also pregnant” rather than “huh, why did we bring Ella, she seems sick.” And congrats!

  5. Hi – Sweden packing advice please? I’m going next week and in depths of the heat of the summer here I’m having trouble figuring out what the temperatures I’m seeing there means for clothes — jeans, tees, and a sweater? Summer clothes with a light jacket? TIA!!

    1. I went up Sweden the last week in August back in 2014 and I was cold! Coming from NYC so I was still in hot humid summer mode. I think their fall starts much earlier than ours. Bring layers and warmer clothes than you think you’ll need. I’d rather take things off if needed than not have enough warm clothes with me.

    2. Allllllll the layers. I studied abroad there and the previous commenter is right, fall begins very early. I would probably not bother with shorts! Jeans, tees, a couple light jacket/sweater options, one of which can handle rain, and one heavier one should do you fine.

      1. +1 I’ve been to Finland in August and it was like early October in New York. Jeans, T-shirts, sweater or cardigan and light rain jacket.

    3. I just returned from Norway, and you’ll need all the layers + rain gear and a hat. I was there for 2 weeks, and was thrilled to have the following in my suitcase: light merino wool full set of long underwear (you can buy this in Sweden if needed) + synthetic long pants that repel water + pullover sweatshirt or fleece layer (I got chilly at night) + rain jacket + shorts + tshirts + hat.

      There were days when I had on my synthetic hiking pants, wool long underwear top, fleece and rain jacket, and then the next day, I’d be in shorts and a tshirt during the day, with my fleece on at the end of the day. Caveat that we were doing active outdoor activities most of the trip, but even if you are in a city, you’ll be happy with a good rain jacket and pants/shoes that you can be comfortable in with the rain. I also saw lots of Norwegians who were wearing fancy waterproof pants, which I almost purchased a pair.

    4. I went to Stockholm in June, and jeans, tees, and a sweater or light jacket in case I needed it was what I went with and worked perfectly. Just bring layers, and if you can, I’d bring a few options in both directions (a pair of shorts and some dresses if hot, one warmer sweater).

    5. For layering, I would bring a goretex or similar rain shell, a zippered fleece, 2 long sleeved shirts, and a few t shirts and tank tops. If you plan to hike then a pair of hiking pants and either thin leggings or silk thermal underwear, depending on the anticipated elevation. Wool socks. For walking around town, I’d bring one pair of dark wash jeans and a pair of white jeans if you have space. One or two skirts and one or two dresses. And always a LBD.

    6. I just got back from Sweden/Denmark a couple of weeks ago and I agree — all the layers. You definitely need a lightweight raincoat or waterproof jacket. Don’t forget your swimsuit for the hotel pool and also when it gets above 70F everybody is swimming in the ocean!

    7. I remember having to buy wool sweaters in August in Stockholm, so I agree that you want to be prepared on that front.

  6. I went hiking on the AT near the PA-NJ line a couple of years ago in the summer and ticks were dropping out of the trees on me. Is that how it is now? I’d love to go there again as it is so much cooler than in the city but not if it is a tick festival.

    3. There are lots of ticks in the summer. You can spray your clothing, hat, boots, and whatever other gear with 0.5% permethrin. You can also buy pretreated clothing from a bunch of retailers. I think LL Bean calls it No Fly Zone or Insect Shield. Wear pants and/or tall socks.

      1. Permethrin is great, but do t use it if you have a cat in the house. It is deadly for them.

        1. I have a cat and have used it – you just have to be incredibly cautious. I sprayed my stuff outside on the porch, and left it there to dry for a couple days, came inside after spraying and showered thoroughly. Never brought the bottle of it in the house. Packed up the clothing to go on our BWCA trip and didn’t worry about it after we came back and washed it. The permethrin does last through washing but dry clothes shouldn’t be a threat to a cat. I maybe wouldn’t let the cat sleep on top of those clothes, but otherwise no problems.

  7. Has anyone here gone to The College of Charleston? We stopped by while at the beach and one kid has fallen in love with the idea that she could live for 4 years in one of the prettiest parts of this city. It does seem ideal for a college lifestyle.

    1. If your kid is the super girly preppy stereotypical sorority type she would fit the mold of those I knew who attended.

      1. sorry that came out meaner than intended – just a warning not to fall for the campus without getting a sense of the student body. The girls I knew who attended were nice and bubbly, middle of the road academics-wise, but seemed to have more of a goal of marriage and kids in short order (achieved as seen on fb). This was 20 years ago so maybe it’s more diverse now…

        1. Same experience but also 20 years ago. I went to Clemson and CofC is a very different, much more social less academic vibe.

        4. Seconding the comments about the feel of the students, and adding that the girls I know who attended College of Charleston took their horses with them. That’s a very specific mood.

          1. Wow. This is up there with nesting yachts as one of the best rich person anecdotes.

          2. Hahaha I am the Clemson grad above and the reason I know about CoC is because of horses! I rode in college and their coach was . . . well known.

        1. lol, that’s why I clarified when replying to my own self. It’s not a “bad thing” it’s just a really specific type of student body that may or may not be a good fit for OP’s kid.

    2. I did not but I know 3 people who did (two former coworkers when I worked for the federal government, one friend from high school). All absolutely loved it. I also know of a few people I went to high school with who went there as well.

      I’m from the north, all but 1 of the people I know who went were out of state.

      It’s stronger academically than U of Tampa, but I’ve always kind of viewed it similarly: not the strongest academic school but you’re there because it’s beautiful and fun, not because it’s academically well regarded.

      FWIW, I went to a top high school and our state flagship university was where the “dumb” kids went. My friend who went to CoC got into a satellite campus, but not the main campus of our flagship state school. But, I also acknowledge that my high school’s standards were abnormal and it’s warped my view of colleges.

    3. Yup, people go there because they get to live in a beautiful part of Charleston and to have fun. They don’t go there for the education.

      1. What if your kid loves history and Charleston and is pretty good academically (at an IB high school but not getting into Flagship State U at home is a crapshoot). If they could go to CoC debt free and possibly do well, would it be a grad school or job-seeking hit that they went there and not a different sort of SLAC like Bucknell ($$$)?

        1. Kids that go to Bucknell are in an entirely different pool of students than CofC.

          Bucknell kids are Ivy hopefuls who could get free rides/decent merit money to state universities.

          Could you go to a good grad school out of CofC? Sure. But it’s not the easy path.

          1. I would not say that the people I know who went to Bucknell are Ivy hopefuls. They are good, solid students and excellent people. But they weren’t kidding themselves that they had any realistic probability of going to an Ivy even with a winning powerball ticket stapled to their application.

          2. Yeah, the average Bucknell student is not Ivy caliber. They may buy a handful of top students who could have gone to Ivies but wanted the scholarship money. But it’s certainly not the average Bucknell student.

          3. Idk, I have a few friends that went to bucknell and were waitlisted at the ivies they applied to.

            Which is why they I called the Ivy hopefully and not Ivy League students.

        2. My close friend from high school did this. She got a full ride to CofC, then went on to a great law school and now practices as a lawyer.

      2. This is definitely its reputation. And the two people I know who went there readily / happily confirm this (as in, that is 100% why they went there).

        1. Isn’t it true of every university? Hard to have a graduation rate that’s higher than the acceptance rate.

          1. No, graduation rate refers to % of admitted students that graduate so it can be anything up to 100%. At the top tier elite colleges like the Ivies, MIT and Stanford, acceptance rates are below 10% and graduation rates are well above 90%. But at many public universities, the acceptance rates and graduation rates are much closer or even inverted. My home town State U (which is a perfectly decent school whose graduates get fine jobs) has an acceptance rate of 90% and a graduation rate of 75%. I think that’s pretty common for all but the most top tier public schools.

          2. *I mean % of enrolled students that graduate. You don’t get counted in the graduation unless you get admitted and enroll.

          3. Not at all.

            UCONN- 55.6% acceptance rate, 84.2% graduation rate.

            C of C: 76.1% acceptance rate, graduation rate 65.4%

            FWIW my dad went to Long Island University (though not as a rich kid) and is a self made millionaire so I can’t say much about rich kid party schools ;).

          4. Acceptance rate equals the number of students accepted out of the number of students who applied.

            Graduation rate equals the number of students who end up graduating out of the number of students who enroll.

            At a selective school that cares about it students you have a low acceptance rate and high graduation rate. At an easy-to-get-into school that doesn’t support its students you can have a high acceptance rate and low graduation rate.

        2. This has to be true at most schools, even the really good ones (so they take spring-semester freshman and transfer students to keep seats filled). IDK if you mean a 75% grad rate in 6 years or 95%, but that fact alone isn’t telling. CoC, IIRC, is a state school, so some people may have legit financial hardships affording it.

          1. Spring semester admits and transfer students are not included in the overall graduation rates reported in the common data set, which is why most colleges and universities are easier to get into a a second semester or transfer admit.

    5. It’s not a school I would be willing to pay for, personally. It’s expensive for out of state and you don’t go there for the education.

      1. I know a kid who got a massive scholarship there and is very happy and doing well (possibly at the top of her class?). DIdn’t get into UVA, but was competitive for it. IDK what live will bring for her on the job front, but success at a working adult seems to be very adult-hustle-dependent vs where you went for undergrad being the determinant.

        The working adult I know who went there was first-generation and minority and LOVES the school, is its biggest cheerleader, and sits on a few boards there, so my impressions may be based on outlier students, but they also go there and don’t seem very hung-up on their school’s reputation.

        1. Oh I agree that where you go to undergrad is not that important, I’m just saying as a parent I would not be interested in paying that kind of money for a school that’s academically weaker than our local State Us. Our State Us are way less competitive to get into than UVa but are still quite strong academically, so we’re lucky in that respect.

      2. That can be helpful. If your kid is smart, it’s easier to do well at a less academically competitive place and having good undergrad grades is probably more useful than any educational difference.

        1. Nah, CofC has a bad enough academic rep that you’re going to have a tough time with grad school admissions even as a straight A student. There’s certainly an argument that going to a slightly worse school where you can be a top student is worth it (at least for certain career paths), but this is several steps down from our local State Us.

        2. I’m not an Ivy or bust person. I think public universities are fine, even ideal for some kids. But the issue with Charleston is that it has such a reputation as a glorified finishing school where women go for MRS degrees that it’s going to be hard to be taken seriously as a graduate from there, even with an excellent academic record.

          1. Depends on where you land. I’m in CA and have never heard of it. If I had an applicant from there, it would just be a check, graduated from college moment and perhaps a conversation about the city. That’s one of my favorite parts of west coast living, there’s not nearly as much concern about the reputation of an undergrad.

          3. I don’t think CofC attendees are interested in moving cross country. Most settle in the south and if not married shortly after graduation, do a “cute” type of job like Kiawah resort administration for a few years before becoming a SAHW or M.

          4. Exactly. Grads settle in the southeast, do something like interior designing, working in an art gallery or working in fashion and then leave to become SAHMs.

    6. I did not, but I remember looking at it because I was also really enamored of the campus when I went to Charleston in high school. The reason I never ended up applying is that they actually do not have most STEM majors (or a lot of other majors) on campus. You essentially go to CofC for your first two years and do your liberal arts pre-reqs and then go to Clemson to finish up your degree.

      Of the people I’ve met that went to CofC, I think only one of them actually finished their degree there (most had to transfer after two years to finish their degree). She graduated with an art history degree and worked in galleries in Charleston for a few years before moving back to work in a gallery in her hometown. She is definitely an old money/sorority type.

    7. I had a friend in high school who went (15 years ago) – she thought she was prepared for the sorority focus and Southernness of it all, coming from the DC area, and she definitely was not. She also was a middling academic achiever at our public but high achieving high school, and was really struck by the lack of academic focus from the other students. She ended up transferring to a large state school after her freshman year where she was much happier, but I don’t think she would have taken it very well if her parents had tried to push her towards that plan originally.

  8. Honeylove bras are stalking me on social. They look good (but what doesn’t). I’m on the smaller side and don’t need a lot of support and these look more elevated than the sports bra I usually wear when not in the office or having to get dressed beyond t-shirts. Worth a try?

  9. Fellow house dwellers, please help a gal out. We got a ton of rain in my area last night and this morning I noticed a large circular water spot on my kitchen ceiling. House is two stories, kitchen is on the first floor, and I’m confused about the source of the water. It is about a foot away from a bay window, so I’m wondering if the roofing where the window connects to the house has failed but that’s a total guess. Who do I call first here? Plumber or roofer? I’ve lived in my home for a few years but have escaped major maintenance issues to date, so I’m a bit clueless as to next steps. TY!

    1. That stinks! Is there a bathroom or similar directly above the kitchen? If yes, plumber. If no, roofer.

    2. It could be that the leak is on your roof but the water drained through the walls down to your kitchen ceiling. Roofer.

    3. Call a contractor, it’s probably a window leak. The water likely came in through your windows and pooled where you’re seeing it. You’ll want to get the drywall repaired and the window sealed.

    5. I’d go with roofer or window guy. Have them also check the flashing around your window. We had major water problems in our basement whenever it rained and could not figure out what the problem was – sump pump was fine, wasn’t coming up from the ground. Replaced a door (unrelatedly) and it stopped – turns out the water was coming in over that door because it had improper flashing and running inside the walls to the lowest point. Super fun! Yay homeownership!!!

  10. I’m getting married in a few months and would like to get a nice gift for my future mother-in-law. (Some context: she contributed financially to the wedding, and I would like to both thank her and give her something meaningful to commemorate the day). I’m leaning towards a classic piece of jewelry, or perhaps a lovely jewelry dish (?), but am not quite sure what would be appropriate or what she would like. She is a successful, C-suite level mid-60s lady. My budget for this is roughly $350, but I would spend more for the right “thing.” Any ideas?

    1. I’d do a white and warren cashmere wrap and a pretty serving tray. I think jewelry is hard for someone else, especially at that price point.

    2. Just out of curiosity, does your Fiancé think this is warranted? It seems odd to me for a bride to be giving a gift their MIL right before a wedding. The first thought that popped up to me, if you’re getting married at a venue with a Spa a spa gift card? I would think this woman probably purchases the things she wants already.

      1. While I’ve never heard of a bride giving her future MIL a gift before the wedding, I think it’s a lovely idea. Also it’s not really about getting her a gift that she will use. I think it’s more about the gesture. A nice pair of earring she could potentially wear on the day of the wedding would be very nice.

      2. In the alternate universe in which I ever had a DIL, if she gave me a gift for her wedding I would adore her forever. Do it, OP!!

    3. I think this is a lovely idea. Even if she can buy herself things, a gift from her new daughter in law will have emotional importance that exceeds its dollar value. OP, I would suggest taking a look at the jewelry selection at Ann Mashburn; some of the Aurelie Bidermann pieces there might fit the bill.

    4. One of my DILs gave me a small ceramic box with a lid.

      On the lid it says “Thank you for raising the man of my dreams” with a small heart.

      Inside the box it says: “Your son is such a special man, and I know that it is true, he would not be the man I love, if it were not for you. Love, (her name and their wedding date).

      This normally isn’t my style at all but I love it and keep it on my dresser.

      1. Again, this would earn her free babysitting and immunity from criticism for life…

        1. She’s really neat, I’m lucky. Actually both my DILs are amazing and my sons are lucky to have them as their wives.

      2. Ha – my SIL got my mom a mug that says “thank you for not m*rdering my husband. I’m sure it was tough some days.”

    5. Are you set on giving her something on or before the big day? Or will sometime after work? I thought most people ordered an extra album for the parents as a thank you. Or if that’s too much then some framed pictures.

    6. I think something honeymoon themed is the most appropriate. Either you pick up something for her there, or you think of something related. We went my in-laws a massive hamper with pasta, sauces, etc (honeymoon in Italy) after the wedding with a thank you note. Bonus, it was super easy to arrange the shipment so one less thing to do.

    7. It didn’t occur to me that a gift like this could be unusual (I’m also getting my parents small gifts), but with Senior Attorney’s blessing, I’m going to go for it :)
      These are all such great ideas, and I especially love the ceramic box with a meaningful inscription idea. Thank you thank you!

    8. I’m a mid-6 C suite lady and my son is marrying a lovely girl soon. We have given some money towards the wedding, but not a significant amount. I would prefer that my soon to be daughter in law spent her $350 on something to make the day of the wedding special, or on the honeymoon than on a gift for me. I am so excited to welcome her into our family, and I am so happy that my son has found someone wonderful to love and create an adult life with. I need no gifts. I’ll be looking at retirement soon, and we may decide to downsize at that point, so less is more. I would love it if she invited me for coffee or a lunch date after they get back from their honeymoon and settled into life again, because I adore her and want to see her and Jr happy.

      1. Coming back to say you definitely don’t need to spend a bunch of money! I think you can definitely scale down the budget.

      2. Yeah, pretty sure my ceramic box wasn’t all that pricey. I don’t care, she took the time to personalize it and give it to me and so it means the world to me. No one went without anything at the wedding, reception nor did they on their honeymoon. It was just a really sweet gift.

        1. I made a photo collage of my husband growing up (some pics had his mom in them) and wrote Product of a Great Mom and he did the same for my mom. It was simple and really well-received. Both moms have the collages framed in the their homes. We used either shutterfly or kodak.

      3. My dad sent flowers to his mom and his MIL on his wedding day. Probably not the best option if folks are traveling for the wedding, but they both loved them.

    9. I would ask my wedding photographer to take a really amazing photo of the groom and his mom, then have it professionally printed and framed for her, with a lovely note.

      2. Yes lovely – or maybe conspire with your husband to find a cute picture of him and mom from when he was little and do a side by side. That in a nice frame plus a thoughtful note would be better than any jewelry or house thing

    10. My husband and I had zero money when we got married, so I didn’t get a gift for my in-laws. I did, however, write them a card that basically said, “Thank you for raising such an incredible person; I’m grateful for all that you’ve done to welcome me into your family.” They both cried.

  11. For those who use “you need a budget”… two questions -(1) how did you convince your partner it was a good idea to start using it? And (2) what is your favorite “explain it to me like I’m 5” resource for someone starting to use it? I tried using it a few years ago and kept getting really frustrated that it didn’t easily account for some types of transactions that happen in my regular life – reimbursements from a dependent care FSA and transfers to investment accounts.

    1. I just did it, tbh. I set up the budget and said that we would have meetings to talk about the different categories and adjust where we needed to. It helps that we both very much adhere to the “your budget reflects your priorities” and we wanted to be intentional about our money.

      I found the videos produced by YNAB to be pretty helpful, and the reddit forum too. One tip I picked up was to create categories to handle things that weren’t obvious in the initial setup. I created one called “reimbursable” where I put things like FSA reimbursement and work travel reimbursement. You can set that up as an off-budget category so it doesn’t impact your overall budget. For transfers to investment accounts, I just set up a category with the monthly transfer amount, and reconciled it when the autotransfer went through.

      Be patient and willing to tweak – I think it took a good 3-4 months before I had all the kinks worked out, but then it’s pretty easy to let it do its thing.

    2. When I was using it they had regular webinar type things that were very helpful to me. I would look at their own help resources.

    3. Love YNAB.
      1. When we were feeling tight on cash with new house, daycare, etc. it’s how we know we can spend money on fun stuff without worrying if there will be enough next month for a big annual insurance bill, etc.
      it’s really easy once you’re set up and have it on your phone.
      It really helps to get 1 months “ahead” on cash flow so you have your full months budget ready before the month starts. If you are used to credit card float it will be an initial shock.
      2. Use their own help videos and articles.
      It’s not great for net worth tracking across lots of accounts. It’s best for weekly, monthly and annual budgeting and spending. How I do Dependent care FSA: it’s meaningless until a reimbursement hits checking account (which is linked to YNAB). Then I allocate it to a budget category called “Kid A 529” and “spend it” by making investment from checking to 529. That debit takes the 529 budget line back to $0 until I allocate more money from my cash flow. Same for IRA.
      I don’t link investment accounts to YNAB, only checking and credit cards.
      You don’t need to track net worth on a weekly or monthly basis. Quarterly or annually in a spreadsheet is fine.

      Good luck!

    4. Not specific to YNAB, but I’ve realized I have a tendency to do a lot of internal thinking/planning before I approach my husband with an idea and I frankly needed to stop doing that because then I’m like 10 steps ahead of him. So for me, personally, the first step would be having a conversation about how I’m stressed about finances and make sure we’re aligned on that before coming up with solutions.

    5. The YNAB videos are helpful, and so are the Nick True videos on YouTube. He has a couple that are for very beginners, and a credit cards for beginners video.

  12. I’m grateful for WFH days for a variety of reasons, but most importantly, my husband gets to overhear my calls. So when I complain about people I work with, he understands that it’s not that I’m an impossible to please dictator, they really are just that incompetent. Some days I just want to go back to bed.

    1. I secretly love when my nearly-grown kids hear me on a call where I sound smart and people listen to me. It’s good for them to be reminded that I do more than run their bed & breakfast.

  13. Bit random but I’m getting sick of replacing my outdoor welcome mats yearly. I’ve done the LLBean waterhog ones and they get shredded/moldy and the Target brand ones don’t last. Does anyone have an outdoor mat that can stand up to a few years of winter boots/people/pets wiping shoes on it without shredding?

    1. I have the Ikea Trampa and it’s held up well for over a year through an upstate NY winter.

    4. Maine Rope Mats. They’re made of recycled lobster rope and can take anything you throw at them.

      2. Do these effectively get the mud and water off shoes? They seem like they wouldn’t, but I like the idea of them.

        1. Yes… they work just like any other mat you wipe your feet on. Not sure what you mean about water? They’re not absorbent if that’s what you’re getting at. Dirt/mud just sort of falls through them when you wipe your feet.

    5. My mom has a doormat from Garnet Hill that’s going strong through several NY winters with no particular care.

    6. I have a few of those astroturf-on-steroids no-brand mats from my local hardware store that are amazing for getting mud out of boots. They clog quickly unless under a covered overhang and are more functional than cosmetic, but they are going strong 8+ years later.

    7. I have the llbean mats inside. Outside I just get whatever at Home Depot or Lowe’s, much cheaper.

  14. Dumb question but: what do you drink with dinner? I drink water all day long and have a weird mental block against drinking water or seltzer with dinner.

    1. I know this is very taboo… but I drink milk with dinner when I’m eating at home. I don’t have lactose or other dairy issues, and I genuinely like the taste.

      2. I love milk. (I come from a family of dairy farmers so I like to joke there’s no escape.) There are some meals I really like it with. Frozen pizza is one of those (idk either).

        To answer OP, lately I pick from a can of the spiked Simply Lemonades, my current sparkling water (Spindrift or Polar), or just water.

        1. I’m the one who said that. My understanding is that the “got milk?” Campaign was sort of controversial because so many people are lactose intolerant or allergic to dairy (which are apparently two different things) and drinking milk wasn’t something that was supposed to be pushed as hard as it was in the 90’s (and I’m sure at other times, but that is what sticks out to me based on being born in the mid 80’s) and maybe we should the drinking milk because too many cows are bad for the climate, etc. I also feel like any female I know (besides my mom) thinks milk is “gross” and hasn’t touched it since kindergarten. Most of what I just said is probably simply the Facebook groups/instagram posts/subreddit discussions I’ve come across, so that this all with a large pinch of salt. Also, I’m mostly embarrassed to share that I like to drink milk, since no one outside my family seems to. That’s clearly a me thing though.

        2. It isn’t. But some folks who are lactose intolerant avoid it, and some avoid it for environmental/ethical issues. For awhile the left crunchy vegan scene (that I floated in) spread some misinformation that drinking dairy caused asthma and increases in allergies, but that wasn’t true. And there have been appropriate criticisms of the milk industry in the past for animal welfare practices.

          But if you aren’t intolerant, low/non-fat milk is quite nutritious. Considering how many of us young women may not be getting enough calcium and protein, using newer recommendations, it can be a useful low cal part of your diet.

          1. I’m not lactose intolerant and don’t object for ethical reasons. I just think milk tastes gross. I like hot cocoa made with milk and I can drink milk with a rich chocolate dessert, but that’s about it. And I would never in a million years drink it with meat, although my cultural Jewish background may be a factor in that (my family is not religious and I’ve never kept Kosher but I’m guessing there’s a cultural influence that make me think the milk + meat combo is gross).

          2. My guess is that you didn’t grow up as a child drinking milk with every meal, yes? Because plain milk is a pretty simple/bland flavor that most babies/children drink and like and tolerate well (I’m simplifying). So most “disgust” is learned, and not biologic/innate. And I have quite a few friends that have lactose intolerance that still love dairy products and use lactase occasionally to enjoy them or just sometimes eat ice cream and deal with the after effects.

            When I grew up, my parents were both grad students living in student housing with other married grad students with families. The families essentially pooled the kids together, made their own free preschool/daycare and took turns watching the kids every day while the parents moved in and out based on their class schedules. We all saw pediatricians at the medical school, and everyone was told to have the kids drink milk from the beginning. I think it was recommended in a lot of the childhood development/health books at the time that everyone was reading. We even had milk with our snacks. Once you get into a food habit as a child, it is easier to maintain.

            We also didn’t have a lot of money, so everyone had powdered milk at home and made a new batch every day. This was the cheapest way, and all the families did it. Sounds funny now eh?

            Of course, back then we also drank too much juice, as parents were not warned about the sugar/teeth decay issues.

            So now I drink skim milk with meals, and water for between meals hydration. I try not to drink too many calories, as I am perimenopausal and the easy weight gain is real.

        3. I don’t think taboo is quite the right word, I think it’s seen as being an unsophisticated choice and as something for kids. I grew up in a family the midwest in the 80s/90s where it was very normal to have milk with dinner (and I think a lot of my friends did, too), but I think its popularity as a beverage for adults has dropped off, especially with a meal. I feel like I rarely see people drink milk with dinner anymore.

        4. I don’t think its taboo but I think a lot of adults find it strange. I love milk, and will drink it with dinner or as a snack (Nesquick). When I shared this at a dinner of 6 people recently, all 6 told me they hadn’t had milk (other than in cereal or as an ingredient in something else) since childhood. I then polled my friends and only found 1 other fellow milk drinker out of like a 30 person poll!

      4. Skim milk.

        I grew up doing this. I love it. Refreshing.
        Easy healthy protein, calcium, vitD which I need.

      5. lol! I drink milk every day and seriously don’t know why anyone else cares. People with European ancestors are not usually lactose intolerant. YUMMY!

      1. +1

        I don’t drink juice (wine included), pop, iced tea or any sort of sweet drinks.

        I do love alcohol of many kinds, but not with dinner.

    4. A local farm orchard thing bottles their own sparkling apple juice and it is AMAZING. A very sophisticated beverage that I enjoy.

      Would Mio help your water?

      In the winter, tea.

    7. Water, milk, juice, lemonade, tea…depends what I feel like drinking. Never alcohol (I hate wine and only drink the occasional cocktail…)

    8. I was actually raised not to drink at dinner (I guess there’s a belief where my family is from that it impairs digestion or waters down digestive fluids somehow?). So I never really developed the habit.

      1. Funny. It doesn’t do that at all.

        It helps fill you up, so you may feel fill earlier when eating.

        1. It actually can cause indigestion for me, but I have some probably relevant GI conditions so I may be really sensitive.

          1. Yeah, that is really unusual, and not an issue typically. In fact, for many digestion problems people literally have to be on a liquid diet, which is the easiest to tolerate. Our digestive system literally turns the food we eat to liquid so it is easier to absorb.

            But for some medical conditions, where the stomach can’t tolerate specific foods or has a limited holding capacity (like gastroparesis), drinking fluids can fill up the stomach faster and may make the food intolerance symptoms more pronounced.

            But more often the opposite is true – it is useful to drink with meals, which can help you chew/breakdown/swallow/digest food easier. I remember I had a hard time getting an elderly relative to start drinking with meals, which was really important for them. They were getting dehydrated, and literally needed more water, and they were starting to choke more on dry food and needed to intermingle sips and bites, which make it easier to chew/swallow safely.

    9. Milk usually. Because I’m worried about breaking my hips when I’m 80. Otherwise water.

    10. Water? It’s not that hard to drink more water. Sometimes a pre-dinner cocktail, usually on Friday, or a glass of wine with dinner. But also water.

    11. Supposedly you actually shouldn’t drink with a meal. I usually do but I see no problems with not drinking water at dinner!

    14. low calorie lemonade or fruit juice (v8 diet splash) or powerade zero. I too have the same weird mental block about drinking water with dinner

  15. I keep hearing buzzing from the window air conditioner in my home office/guest room. It’s not on right now, so I’m pretty sure there is a wasp or yellowjacket inside (or more than one?). What do I do? Burning down the building is not an option.

    2. How long will it take you to hire movers?

      I think you have to use a spray but I’d be scared too. Is there a building maintenance person or are you on your own?

    3. Disconnect the unit, take it a safe distance from the house, then burn it. No need to burn the house down for a window unit.

      But really, I’d spray the living daylights out of the unit and see if the noise stops. When you’re finished for the day, unplug the unit, spray around and on the unit both inside the house and outside the house with wasp spray, and close the door. Tomorrow morning, open up all the windows to air out the room for a few hours, then run the unit for a couple hours with the windows open.

    5. Turn it on and see if the pests leave? They probably won’t come inside.

      Also, it could be something as harmless as a fly – the bigger ones make a loud buzz that could be amplified from inside the unit.

    6. You do not burn down a building for a wasp. That is, of course, the appropriate response for a SNAKE. I’d turn the unit on and see if that runs it out. Stand by with a fly swatter in case it runs him out in your direction.

      1. Thank you all for your answers. After a small panic attack, I did turn the unit on – it was getting hot in here! – and nothing but cool air has come out. I’ll see if there are still noises this weekend and maybe try spraying. Really hoping it just goes away.

      2. Not a fly swatter! If you miss you have a very angry wasp on your hands. Hit it with a quick blast of hair spray. Its wings will stick together so it will drop to the ground within a couple seconds. Then you can safely squash it.

  16. I did the Thing this morning! And as always it was easier and less stressful than my procrastinating mind made it out to be. When will I learn my lesson, who knows. But you can do it too!

  17. Crowdsourcing whether I am being petty or reasonable.

    My grandparents left their summer house to my two siblings and me. I wanted to keep it. My siblings wanted to sell. I was upset and there were several big fights about it during which a lot was said about how I was being stupid about money and romanticizing our childhood summers. In the end I managed to put together the funding to buy them out. I funded through a mortgage and a very, very generous gift from my in-laws who really liked the idea of a family vacation spot.

    My husband and I were there for several weeks in the summer. That included 4th of July weekend, when I invited both of my siblings to come with their families, although only my sister took me up on it. Various combinations of my in-laws are using it for another 4-6 weeks through early fall.

    My brother called last night (apparently he talked to a neighbor) and said he did not know I was renting it out and offering the advice that short-term rentals are not allowed. When I explained that it was my in-laws and they were not paying rent, he got upset that I will not let him and his family use the house. I told him that his whole rationale for selling was that he did not want to spend his holidays there, that he was welcome to bring or send his kids next year when I was there so the cousins could build a relationship but that no – he did not get to have his cake and eat it too. He has the hundreds of thousands of dollars he cleared from the sale. He can rent his own house.

    Am I being petty? It feels like my in-laws are partial owners, morally if not legally but it pisses me off that my brother thinks he is entitled to stay at the house I am paying for and which definitely stretched my family budget while he also has the money from the sale. On the other hand, it will be sitting empty for a couple of weeks this summer unless we can make it out for the weekend. My husband will do whatever I want – although his first reaction was “f- him” but he lived through my tears over selling so he is definitely biased.

    1. This stuff is inevitable with family properties (i have so many stories like this in my extended friend circle) but no you are absolutely not being petty!! And your brother absolutely knows he’s in the wrong.

      1. (And no, do not let him use it for the “empty” weeks – he has no respect and they will trash the place)

    2. You bought your siblings out fair and square. If he’d asked nicely I might feel differently, but it sounds like he’s being an ass about it – going behind your back to talk to a neighbor and getting pissy about your in-laws.

      1. I side with your husband, f him. Sorry not sorry (spoken as someone who has a mooch for a brother who has and will always sponge off anyone who lets him and whine about those who don’t).

    4. You have no obligation to let your brother use the house, and it sounds like your relationship is strained enough that saying no isn’t going to make that situation much worse or much better.

      Question: If he did use the house, do you think he’d be nice about it? If someone let me use their beach house for free, I’d probably pay to get it professionally cleaned, get them a very nice present, take them out for a fancy dinner, etc. If you think he’ll just track sand everywhere and leave the hot water running, I’d pass.

      1. This. My family has a beach house and shockingly, my lazy mooching brother does not dramatically change his stripes when his family uses it – the house is trashed afterwards. My parents apparently hire a cleaning crew for after they stay (and pay out of their own pocket of course – my dad let this slip once).
        This type of behavior has also banned two separate sets of cousins and one of my uncles from using the house. This was AFTER my parents instituted a mandatory cleaners/utilities fee for everyone using the house (which people also raised a stink about). You would think ‘free vacation house means I should treat it extra well!’ but nope, some people are ingrates.

    5. You are not at all petty. If your brother wanted to use the house without you there, he should have kept his interest in it. Don’t let him use it now.

    6. You are not being petty. It’s your house. He lost all say with what happens to it when he decided he did not want to (partially) own it.
      If he continues to bring it up, I think you can keep reminding him you’ve offered to host him and his family before and he hasn’t taken you up on that and leave it at that.
      I agree with other poster, you are not obligated to offer empty weeks to him to use the house solo.

    7. I would absolutely not let him be there without you, and you may want to think about some cameras in case you don’t already have a security system. (Heaven forbid, what happens if he stays there and there’s a major maintenance issue? You do not want to add that to your plate.)

      In talking to your brother, be dispassionate (as hard as it may be): Sorry, we can’t do that at this time. We’d love to have you when we are there, here are the dates. Repeat ad nauseum. You don’t owe him additional explanations, and he has plenty of money to rent his own place as you know. He may be somewhat regretful that he didn’t keep part of it after all, but that’s on him.

    9. being petty would be saying to your brother: Oh, so after accepting a quarter million of my dollars, you also want to use the house that I bought, because you think I owe you that? What else do you think I owe you? A kidney? My firstborn?

      1. I’d put airtags on your kidneys. You never know with some people once you bring it up.

        1. +1 if my kidneys were not in my body, I would definitely want to know where they were

    10. But me out of this property and pay me thousands of dollars and still let me use it?? NO WAY!!!!! He can rent it out by the week if he wants.

    11. Your brother is acting like an entitled asshat. Your terms are generous under the circumstances. I think anywhere between your terms and your husband’s take on it is reasonable.

    12. I think you are being petty, but I would call it “understandably petty” and I would not let him use it either.

    13. You’re not being petty. Does he know the in laws helped with a gift? Also, consider talking to the neighbor and making sure they understand that you’re the owner and any questions or concerns should be brought to you.

  18. I’m seeing Barbenheimer today!! What are you all going to wear? I’m having a hard time leaning into the Oppenheimer aesthetic haha. Avid Barbie fan as a kid here, I’m wearing pink sparkly eyeshadow, a navy too and pants + a pink/orchid jacket, matching shoes, close-enough matching bag.

    What are you planning to wear?

    1. Hot pink maxi dress
      Hot pink sparkly earrings

      My best friend (female) is dressing as Ken

    2. My cousins and I are going as different Barbies. I have a matching pink casual set so I’m wearing pink slippers and pink rollers for sleepover Barbie, one cousin is wearing a pink athletic dress and hat for tennis Barbie, and the other is wearing a artsy outfit with a pink apron and beret for artist Barbie!

  19. I have an apartment renting question. Brother says that his roommate’s sister is the only one who signed the lease. Brother says that brother and roommate are named on some other document as the people who live in the apartment.

    Does anyone know what that other document that lists the residents is called?

    Anything else I should know about this kind of set-up? It is completely foreign to me, so I would appreciate any and all input.

    TIA.

    1. I’m not clear what you need to know? Are you moving in? Did your brother ask if this was legit?

      Is the sister living there? If not, she might be subletting to them. Whether that’s allowed will depend on her lease.

    3. My lease has me as the lessee and also has a page that says “list everyone who lives here,” where I include my husband and child. I moved in here on my own with my child, and husband came along later, and this was the easiest way to “add” him.

    4. OP here.

      I have not seen any documents. Roommate and her sister and Difficult People. Brother tells me this piece of paper exists. I am trying to confirm that he is protected by being named on this piece of paper. So I want to ask for this piece of paper, but I don’t know what it is called.

      1. even if it exists – I wouldn’t rely on being protected! It might serve as official documentation so the landlord cannot claim there are people being house in their unit secretly, but what’s the leaseholder to stop from changing her mind?

      2. It could be called a number of things, don’t get caught up on the name of your the document. Just tell him to ask for a copy of any lease-related documents with his name on it.

  20. How do people afford to buy expensive houses??? We currently live in a city that that has had rapidly increasing property values in the past few years. For some perspective, when we decided to buy our current house, we decided to buy in a gentrifying area where we thought property values would go up more quickly instead of buying a comparably priced house in the suburbs. Now, we can sell our $400k house for $800k, but the suburban houses that were $400-600k a few years ago are all $1.3-1.5 mil (and typically requires some type of renovation). We keep seeing people our age that have similar or lower salaries than ours buying these houses…. but I just don’t understand how they are doing it. (Think people that are like professional acquaintances where I know them well enough to know what their jobs are but am not close enough to discuss finances like this). Are all of these people just swapping their $2500 per month mortgage for a $6500 per month mortgage?

    1. More people than you might think get money from their parents or grandparents. Also, they may have a truly punishing mortgage or mortgages.

      1. +1

        There are a lot of very rich retirees now. Their retirement account did phenomenally, and more of them five to their children early. And there is a subpopulation of young dual income families/couples that make a shocking amount of money, way above the national average incomes for families. And yes, people spend a lot on their homes.

        It is mind blowing to me.

        1. As my friends/coworkers have family members get older or pass away I’ve heard of more and more people coming into very large estates from boomers who lived frugally and/or had huge appreciation on their houses and retirement accounts – plus way more boomers had/have pensions! It also seems to be commong for rich elderly relatives to start making large gifts every year to spend down the estate or because they want to see their heirs use/enjoy the money.

          1. My parents have never earned more than about $200k combined, but currently are worth about $10M. Living frugally and working well past age 65 can make you very rich.

          2. “Living frugally and working well past age 65”

            No thanks, to both of those. I’d rather make money, save money, spend money having fun and get to retire at 60. I’d like to leave something to our kid but I’m not going to kill myself working/live a life I hate to leave him $10m.

          3. Agree, my ILs are sitting in over 10M which I only know because there was some grumbling about the estate taxes. I laughed and said it would never be a problem but actually….it’s something they are monitoring.

            They were mid level management at AT&T. That’s it. Just good investors, frugal, and had 3 consecutive homes with wild appreciation, they sold their big family home for $1.5M cash when they paid $650k for it 25 years earlier.

        2. I also think a lot of older people are very, very emotionally attached to the idea of real estate as a good investment (because stocks are scary), so helping their adult kids buy a house makes them feel like they are using their money wisely and in a way that will build wealth. Real estate *can* be a good investment, but not always. Anecdata – my in-laws have a suburban tract house full of semi-permitted “improvements” and an unimproved 20-acre plot of rural land. Neither property is anywhere near as valuable as they believe.

      2. +1 several of my close friends bought homes in the $3-5M range in the Bay Area with significant assistance from their parents. They are all high earners (mid six figures) but still needed family help for the kind of houses they wanted. I assume they could have bought in the $1.5M range without help pretty easily. But that doesn’t get you much in the Bay Area.

        1. Out of curiosity, what do you think a mid six figures household income would be equivalent to in a MCOL area? Or a LCOL area? The Bay Area numbers just blow my mind so I’m trying to translate these numbers to something I can understand!

          1. I’m also always curious what people mean by mid six figures, do they genuinely mean $400k-600k, which is the middle of the six figure range, or do they actually mean like $200k-$300k.

          2. It’s tough to say. Housing can be 10x as expensive, especially if you’re talking about desirable school districts like Cupertino and Palo Alto. When I left the Bay Area and moved to a LCOL city in the Midwest, we bought a nice, reasonably large (4 bed + den) single family home for $300k and I think it easily would have gone for north of $3M in the nicer parts of the Bay Area at the time. But everything other than housing isn’t anywhere near 10 times as expensive. And the people who own the crazy $$$$ homes are building equity and adding to their net worth. They’ll likely have a much higher net worth at retirement than I will. Having all your money tied up in your house isn’t the lifestyle I wanted though.

          3. I said mid-six figures and I meant $400-600. I know some people use it to mean ~$150 but that’s incorrect.

          4. Another thing I found crazy about the Bay Area is that you can of course go further out to the suburbs, and with flexible work, a 80minute commute may seem not so daunting. BUT you will still pay 800k+ out there, because the houses are literally twice or thrice the size of a nice 3BR in Berkeley or whatever. Twice the bedrooms, and everything is so vast. Nobody needs that much space.

          5. When I worked at a law firm in Palo Alto, my secretary commuted from Gilroy. This was long before Covid, so she had to be in the office five days a week. An absolutely brutal commute to do every day. Although I do think she had a pretty nice house out there.

      3. This. Virtually everybody I know gets help from their parents or other family. So many of my law school peers had parents gift them down payments or even all the funds or a super low interest loan for their homes!

        I did it myself, so it took me until 39 to buy something nice. If I had had a child or children, add another 10 years.

    2. Your house doubled in value since you bought it. Assuming that the people you mention are buying their second houses, maybe they were able to make a large profit from the sale of their first home and use that for a larger down payment?

      1. OP– That is what we thought initially, but when we’ve done the math on buying one of these houses, the money is not enough on its own to explain it. Like if we make $400k off our house (minus fees), you’re still looking at a really punishing mortgage around $800- $1 mil, which is over the jumbo loan limit.

        We make around $300k a year and are in the SEUS, so not a VHCOL area, so the answer in all of these situations is not that people make more money than us. And it’s not like I’m wondering how people are buying into one exclusive neighborhood– the prices in our city have gotten this high in the majority of the county, so a lot of people are theoretically somehow making this work. (These areas were typical middle class areas until a few years ago, so most people that we know that currently live there could not afford to buy there now or upgrade their homes in the same area.)

        1. People who could downsize (aka boomers) did great in this housing market. Their big suburban house doubled in price so they could buy a small but still lovely house cash and still have money left over.

        2. If my family made more than $300k a year, we could afford a $1.5m home with a decent lifestyle. We don’t eat out that often (1 time a week about, and nothing that expensive) and just don’t have expensive hobbies. I honestly can’t think of what else we would spend the money on if our HHI more than doubled. In contrast, I have some friends who eat out 4-5 days week and spend a lot more for each meal.

          Do they just have different lifestyles than you?

          1. If you currently earn $150k and got a raise to $300k, your take home pay wouldn’t double. You pay a lot more in taxes at a higher salary. I don’t think we have an especially fancy lifestyle but $500k was the top of our budget when we were house-hunting on a $150k income, and we had a pretty hefty down payment (~$200k). I don’t think I would be comfortable spending $1.5M on a $300k income, unless I had some other large assets or expected source of income.

          2. There is some additional tax, so it’s not quite double. But it’s not significant. The difference for a married couple is of a top tax bracket of 22% bs 24% for federal taxes, and the 24% only kicks in over $178k.

            Some people are willing to pay more of their income for housing than others. Although I do think there are some people who get significant help from their parents, I think that’s the biggest difference for most people

    3. I think family help with a house purchase is quite common in VHCOL areas. Some people also take on a way bigger mortgage than I would be comfortable with and are “house poor.”

      1. I’m not saying this isn’t true in some instances, but I think many people are more significantly in debt than you’d realize, especially those who are high-income on paper.

        1. This! I dated a guy whose parents were very high earners and they had a really flashy lifestyle with multiple expensive homes, luxury cars, frequent luxury travel, etc. They were also deeply in debt and were always one step ahead of the bill collectors. In contrast, my parents have never had high incomes but lived modestly and retired with eight figures in the bank.

    5. Family money all the way. It’s surprising when you get out of college and your friends who have always played it like they’re ‘normal middle class’ kids suddenly have their apartments/houses, engagement rings, and weddings fully paid for. I have friends that are estate attorneys and it is super, super common for trusts that might not pay out till 30/35+ to allow for disbursements for schooling, home purchases, or healthcare needs.

      1. Yeah, I remember being shocked at college graduation when a few people I knew got the down payment for a condo so they’d have somewhere to live during grad school. It was a fantastic investment for one of those people, and she’s an only child so it made a lot of sense for her parents to spend their money that way. But my parents could never…

    6. I’m with you, Anon. I don’t get it, either. But then, back in the day I had a $2,200 mortgage payment on my first house (low price, high interest rate) and I just looked up what that would be in today’s dollars, and it’s almost $5,700. So I guess people have always stretched to get their first house.

    7. It’s family money, it’s jobs that pay very high starting salaries, it’s people who didn’t have student loans or saved all their payments while in forbearance. It’s also the fact that there are far, far fewer houses in desirable neighborhoods than there are people who want them, so that’s gatekeeping in favor of the people with means.

      We bought our house 9 years ago for 750 and it was a stretch, but manageable. We were also in our late 30s and had equity from a prior house to put towards the purchase. The house next door recently sold for 1.5M to a two attorneys, 2 years out of law school, both at big firms. Their parents show up driving very fancy cars so I assume there’s a lot of family money at play as well.

    8. 1) Family money. Maybe not to help buy the house, but if someone’s parents paid for college or professional school and they don’t have student loans, that makes a big difference.
      2) I think some people are just more comfortable with a higher percentage of income going to housing than others. My house costs much less than I could technically “afford,” but I also really, really want to retire early (like 50 or younger) so we didn’t buy more house.
      3) And agree with the person that said if your house doubled, so did their’s, so maybe more profit to fund next purchase.

    9. We never stepped up to the bigger house, and are glad we didn’t. Our mortgage is paid off heading into retirement and we don’t have to downsize.

    11. I agree with all the comments so far and will just offer this data point: our first house which we bought at 400k we sold at 650k, and we used all the gains (250k + 90k in equity = 340k) as the down payment on a 1 mil house. Our monthly mortgage + insurance + taxes went from 2400 (15 yr) to 4500 which we can sustain comfortably. We did this in late 2022 so we did get lucky with catching lower interest rates. DH and I make 320k together now but like 170k when we bought our first house

      1. Same here. Bought at $350, sold at $500. Had 200 in equity at close. Had another 150 in savings. Bought a house for $1.1M, have a mortgage for 750. The mortgage payments are about $5000/month and we make $320k.

    12. I live in CLT and sometimes wonder if I am the only person who does not have a trust fund, family money, or family help. 7-figure starter homes (that are still fixers in some way — maybe there is granite where there should be marble?) are not uncommon. Not everyone works in BigLaw or private equity. My family office is the lapdesk I have and an accordion file folder.

    13. They either make a ton of money, have family help or are going to be house rich and cash poor by purchasing these houses. More often it’s family help.

    14. In my case it’s a combination of being house poor and having access to a private bank so I got a much better than market rate on my mortgage. Also remember, until recently people were getting super low rates so it was cheaper to take out a big mortgage.

    15. I’ve actually had these financial discussions with many of my friends. It’s a combination of:
      1. gifts from parents
      2. punishing mortgages
      3. they lived extremely frugally for a long time, hoarded cash, and put a ton down to keep their monthly payment low
      4. they bought a place in and up and coming neighborhood in their early to mid 20s, it appreciated in value, they sold it, and they put the profit into a more expensive home either before covid (so home prices had not appreciated everywhere yet) or before interest rates rose (keeping monthly rates affordable)
      5. they earn more than you think

    16. I actually only know one person who has family help to buy their house. I’m 42 and have owned three homes, and this is how I did it:

      1) First house – single family home; bought with first husband in VHCOL in 2009; HHI was $300k. We had limited student loan debt (both had full scholarships for undergrad and were only paying minimums on my law school debt), and we used savings for our down payment. Very high mortgage payment relative to take-home pay.

      2) Second house – large condo in HCOL that I purchased as a single woman about 5 years after divorcing (around 2017). We lost money when we sold the first home post-divorce, so no cash out of that. I moved to a new city and jumped from mid law to big law so my solo HHI was about $300k. Used my first two bonuses to wipe out my student loan debt and saved my next three for a down payment. Never spent any bonus money on “fun” stuff.

      3) third house – SFH in HCOL purchased 7 years after the condo. Honestly, the answer to this was is that I remarried and my second husband has a mid-seven-figure income.

      1. Wow – we were just talking about “what is a mid-6 figure income”, often mentioned casually here….. and it shocked me that people actually meant 400-600k per year.

        Now I wonder how we can have people who earn a mid-seven figure income……

        This whole thread is very depressing.

    17. We bought ours when the market tanked.

      Second house …. We took on an expensive mortgage but our earning power had gone up a lot by then. And no other debt.

      VHCOL but not in the US.

  21. I’m thinking of the commenter yesterday who needed to do the thing of confronting her cheating husband. Sending good thoughts your way.

        1. Did the thing! I am now going to be 36 years old, childless, and divorced…. (yikes! SOS) but here I am! Here we go!

          1. My two best guy friends — smart, handsome, interesting, fun, and both financially and emotionally stable — have paired up with women who have your profile. There is a lot of life to live from here! Best wishes.

          2. Better than being 36 and being in a miserable marriage with a guy who cheats on you. Don’t second-guess yourself – you absolutely did the right thing! And if it comes down to it – I have two friends who had babies on their own, and it’s absolutely doable and something you can choose if you feel it’s right for you. I am so glad you got out before you had kids with your cheating husband, yikes. Feel proud of yourself!

          3. You will be ok! I got married at 38 and had 2 kids by 41! Anything is possible. I have a friend who is single in her 40s and seems to be having a fabulous life – very rich with friends, girls trips, family time, volunteering etc – she really is a gem. I hope that you take time to regroup and just enjoy yourself with some stress free days! We are rooting for you.

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