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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Cropped Wide-Leg Pant

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A woman wearing black top and brown wide leg trouser with black sandals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

If you’re a huge fan of Spanx, or even if you’ve been on the fence about trying out their clothing, I highly recommend taking a spin through their sale section right now. There are tons of great finds, from athleisure (I love this long hoodie) to workwear (how cute is this lady jacket?).

These cropped wide-leg pants caught my eye as a great option for both business casual offices and weekend wear. For work, I would pair these with a black turtleneck and flats, but if you need a little extra warmth, an ankle boot would also look great. 

The pants are $49, marked down from $98, and come in sizes XS-1X. There are also petite and tall sizes available, but lucky sizes only. They're also available in “Tuscan olive” and “parchment.”

For larger sizes, Spanx has a similar style in ponte that's available in XS-3X (as well as petite and tall) for $148.

P.S. Happy Valentine's Day!

Hunting for crop flare pants? They're definitely trending in 2025 — some of our favorites include options from Madewell, Anthropologie, J.Crew, Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, Spanx, Theory, and M.M.LaFleur.

woman wears crop flare pants with work outfit
Ann Taylor
woman wears crop flare pants with work outfit
Theory
woman wears kick flare pants with work outfit
J.Crew
woman wears kick flare pants with work outfit
Spanx

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

249 Comments

  1. I didn’t realize even whole coffee beans don’t last more than a couple months!

    1. Peak quality degrades, but unless the oil turns rancid they will turn out drinkable coffee for quite some time beyond that.

      1. This is true. The original post was about whether to enjoy or save fancy coffee, though, and the responses were correctly advising OP that saving the coffee would reduce her enjoyment.

        1. Yeah so now I’m fully on just drink it normally and enjoy the experience. Thanks y’all for being on this “very important” journey with me

    2. I guess I’m not a connoisseur but I’ve definitely used 6+ months old beans and never noticed anything off.

  2. Fed here – still safe for now but I have yet to have a week where I haven’t cried during a meeting.

    In a decade in the work force, I’ve only cried at work for non-work related reasons (which is also not great, but it happens).

    I have no appetite, I’m not sleeping great, my depression is flaring up.

    All because I chose a career serving my country…

    1. The deliberate infliction of maximum suffering and uncertainty is really hard to take. I’m sorry. It’s also meant to distract us from Trump cozying up to Putin and sending undocumented immigrants to Guantanamo Bay.

    2. I’m so sorry you and so many others are going through this. I think it’s a testament to the power of the federal workforce: Trump was stymied by people doing their jobs and upholding laws during his first term, so this time, he’s cutting them first.

      1. Ugh. I almost wish he’d won in 2020 so the clown car circus could have continued. With the 4 year break they had time to think and plan how to do it with inside knowledge of the weak points.

    3. That’s the point — to make the people who are there for the right reasons feel awful and quit. Hang in there!

    4. I’m sorry. It’s awful, and a massive distraction from the good work that you are doing. (I’m in higher ed, which is also feeling very bleak at the moment, in no small part to what’s happening at the federal level.)

    5. I am with you. I love my job and only moved to work for the federal government 8 years ago after 30 years in the private sector. It’s been an honor to work with people who are devoted to serving. Still here and hoping that somehow my agency might make it through, but grieving for so many who have already been kicked aside.

    6. Hang in there and see what actually happens. Every day there is a new court ruling limiting what the Administration can do, and if the various Executive Orders and DOGE directives have to actually go through Congress, that will take a really long time to happen.

      1. Many of them are already happening, such as scrubbing documents for “dangerous” language like bias, disability, women, and equality–close to 200 words, maybe? My department has spent a couple weeks doing this, and then those documents (some removed) have affected other programs. Either Congress wasn’t consulted or they approved of it.

        This is only one small thing, and at least it’s kept us busy at work, unlike those who’ve been fired or made to come in the office from remote locations.

    7. I’m in the same boat, less than one year in. Hugs. Eerily quiet from my agency, heard nothing yet/if I still have a job. The anxiety everyday is rough.

  3. What helps you with nasal and ear congestion? I’m extremely sensitive to typical decongestant meds that contain phenylephrine so those are a no go unfortunately. I’ve been resting, drinking tea, steam showers, vitamins, elderberry. Not covid or flu.

    1. I assume you also can’t take real pseudoephedrine? I take N-acetylcysteine as a mucolytic and it really helps. My ENT also has me do a saline rinse.

      1. I’ve never heard of cherry pit bags!! Do they really hold the heat better than rice?

    4. phenylephrine is the ingredient that was recently determined to do absolutely nothing. Pseudoephedrine (aka “real” Sudafed behind the counter) actually works.

      For congestion, Mucinex (generic is guaifenesin) and lots of water!

    6. Decongestants don’t help me, but they slam me with side effects. There are two things that help me a lot: Steroid sprays like Flonase make a huge difference when I feel really stuffed up. I’ve also started moisturizing inside my nostrils with Aquaphor before I go to bed, which has actually prevented a lot of my nasal issues. I think my nose was running because it was dry, but that led to congestion and swelling. (sorry this is all gross)

    7. I’m allergic to phenylephrine and pseudoephedrine, so no help here but solidarity!

    8. Neti pot.
      That’s what every ENT doctor will tell you.
      Keep your home well humidified. You are doing good things.

      1. +1000. In winter here in MN, I neti morning and night and I swear it helps prevent flu/cold viruses from taking hold. And, if they do, the relief from sinus pressure is immediate. I love that I am not having to take meds to handle these, and once I learned to neti pot, I stopped getting my annual sinus infection. My doc explained that when mucus gets stuck in sinuses, it can (gross alert) fester and become infected and bam – down with a sinus infection. It’s been 20 years since I had one.

        1. I Neti pot during the spring and summer for my allergies and it makes a huge difference.

    9. I find that ibuprofen reduces the swelling of the nasal passages, which helps some. I also like the nasal strips that go over the bridge of your nose.

      1. Co-sign. And fluids. I like hot and spicy soup with an egg roll with plenty of mustard. Gets the gunk moving again.

    11. Navage instead of a neti pot, I find it much more effective. Cranosacral massage and/or gua sha massage.

      1. +1, it contributes to phlegm. Hard to say no to cheese until I’m not stuffy, but it really does help.

        As does using anything with eucalyptus. Mentholated cough drops, vapor-rub, lip balm, bath products, etc. All of them help me breathe easier.

        1. It does not contribute to making mucus worse. There is no scientific evidence to back up the widely believed claim.

          1. I’m aware that it doesn’t affect mucus production. However it subjectively affects my personal comfort, and there’s no scientific study that disproves this.

    14. Exercise (if you don’t have a fever or bad cough). A brisk walk for a few minutes helps, but if you feel well enough to jog it works miracles for congestion.

    15. Do you have any of those shower steamers? I think halls and Vicks make them, they really do make a difference. Also vapo rub or st olbas oil. I’d also give a bruder eye mask a try if I felt congested, the heat might help.

    17. I’m having terrible pregnancy rhinitis and have tried everything under the sun to avoid decongestants, which my OB says not to take.
      – Neti pots don’t work for me but I hear good things from others. My OB suggested using more than one saline packet per pot
      – Vicks shower tabs help clear me up in the morning. I think the steam helps some on its own, but the shower steamers help even more.
      – a nebulizer. I got the Vicks version for $30 something but there are probably cheaper options. I use it before bed and it helps to keep me clear for a couple of hours
      – Vicks vapoinhalers look like chapstick but you can breathe them in (I swear I’m not affiliated with Vicks, their stuff just works best for me)
      – I DON’T use the Vicks rub that I grew up with because I think it has petroleum based products, which are not safe for pregnancy (or anyone really)
      – I’ve tried a bunch of different nasal sprays. Flonase works ok for me but it’s nowhere near as effective as a decongestant
      – take an antihistamine just in case allergies are causing your issue
      – friends have recommended a humidifier in the bedroom. I’ve resisted because I live in a humid climate and there aren’t that many weeks of the year that I want to ADD humidity to my house. You also have to clean them frequently, ideally daily, or you’re just spreading mold through the air. I keep an old brass barometer (still works!) in my bedroom to measure the humidity, if it dips below 40 then I’ll take a steamy shower before bed
      – hot tub. Or in my case, moderately warm tub. We have our own hot tub, we professionally test the water weekly and can control the temperature. Despite these precautions, my OB won’t sign off on any hot/warm tub use at all. I finally broke down one day it hit 40 outside so I could hop in and out of it as needed. I also brought a thermometer so I could make sure my internal temperature doesn’t rise. I spent about an hour total in the warm tub (I refuse to call 99-100 degree water “hot”), sitting on the side of the tub out of the water and checking my temp every 10 minutes or so. The jets helped my muscle aches a ton but an unintended happy side effect was that my sinuses stayed clear all night. First full night’s sleep I’ve had in 18 weeks.

  4. If you are going to go looking for a new classic 3 season suit or an equivalent power dress, where would you go? Jackets can’t be weirdly long because I’m on the short side for regular sizes. I’ve got generous hips but a tiny bust, so brands like Theory never worked. About a 6/8 (jacket) and 8/10 for pants. I probably should have shopped last fall at Talbots. What can I get now?

      1. If you’ve bought a J Crew suit lately, did you go with the “seasonless stretch” fabric or something wool-blend? IDK if you could get a skirt / pants to go with a suiting jacket. Skirts are usually lined, which I like, but I like having pants also.

    2. Have you looked at Argent? I haven’t bought a suit in a while, but if I need one, that’s what I want to try first.

    5. Brooks Brothers, Elie Tahari, LK Bennett and Trina Turk have all worked for my similar shape.

      1. This is exciting! BB has never worked for me, even though I have tried and tried over the years. Trina Turk clothes always seemed so fun — I didn’t know they had formal work pieces.

    6. They tend to be a little bit mumsy or “old-school” but Tahari suits are very classic and a safe bet. The styles are a mix of modern and very slightly vintage-looking and very much designed with a curvier form in mind (at least to my eye)

    7. Brooks Brothers. They have a lot of good mix and match suiting separates, real wool, lined.

      1. I held my nose and bought a brooks Brothers suit in a pinch and I love it! the jacket is normal (not too long and baggy) the skirt is lined and it just looks like a classic suit. I wish it was cheaper. but am very happy with my choice

  5. Trying again from yesterday afternoon —

    Has anyone tried out the Lo & Sons Aoyama bag and have thoughts? It’s so hard to find unbiased reviews. Is it heavy?

    2. what do you want to use it for? unsolicited opinion time, that bag looks super frumpy to me. the bag equivalent of Life Stride pumps.

    3. I don’t have that bag, but I have a Quince crescent bag that is great and much better looking (IMHO). I know Quince gets mixed reviews, but I have been very impressed with their leather goods.

      1. Same! I have the an olive green version of the same Qunice bag (looks like that color is no longer available), and I get tons of compliments.

      2. Different material and use, but I just bought the lululemon large slouchy sling bag in the Lava Cake color and it looks awesome. Haven’t used it yet.

    4. I have it and it is very light. It is functional and slightly cooler than life stride pumps, but not by much.

  6. What is the mood like in DC? I think it must be awful for feds, but imagining it has a lot of spillover where it’s your roommate / BF and you rely on them for their half of the rent, and also genuinely feel back for them as a human. Twisting in the wind is an awful feeling.

    1. Not a fed, but my partner is and friends in international development have been furloughed. The mood is pretty awful and there’s so much fatigue around all of this so people aren’t really talking about it either.

    2. Everyone is just trying to get through our days. It is exhausting and terrifying. They are dropping executive orders every day at the end of the day to maximize the stress level. This is in addition to the recent plane crash. But people are still getting up, going to school, going to our jobs because what else can we do.

      1. I’m not even in DC but the US feels unreal to me these days. I feel like I’m walking around in a daze. All my sympathies to you all.

  7. Anyone have a favorite work bag? Looking for something that can hold a laptop, normal purse stuff, and a water bottle, looks more like a purse.

    1. a black Longchamp le pliage is my ride or die. I have the neo, which they don’t make anymore, but it’s basically indestructible. My dog had a poop incident on the way to the vet the other day and I threw the bag in the washing machine and it looks good as new. I’ve used it as a work bag, airplane carryon, gym bag, beach bag, shopping bag. It fits so much and the straps never fall off my shoulder, which is my complaint with most tote bags. If something ever happens to it I will probably scour ebay for another one.

      1. same. I don’t care that it’s basic or that even college students are able to afford them now. As the kids say, I am a Longchamp le pliage stan.
        It’s also the only work bag I’ve seen that both fits a 16 inch laptop AND zips all the way (instead of having a gap at both ends), so I don’t worry about rain, etc.

        1. Forgot to add, that I prefer its lighter weight compared some of the “nicer” leather or faux leather bags… I find that other bags big enough to hold everything I need haul around are themselves heftier and that just adds to the total weight on my shoulder.

    3. I’ve always like Cuyana for this – they’re indestructible and have a lot of styles.

    4. Speaking of bags, anyone have experience with Maika Goods? I like the look of their bags. I drive to work, so I don’t need something huge, and where I work is casual so I don’t need anything fancy. Just wondering if they are decent quality.

    5. I love Brahmin for this; the internal organization makes sense and the bags are surprisingly light weight. Unlike Cuyana, you don’t have to buy additional organizers.

      1. Any specific ones? Brahmin has a million styles and I get overwhelmed when trying to go through them.

    7. Lo & Sons Seville Prima shell (mine is dark gray) is my every day work bag for a car commute. Love it. And for travel, I switch out to the black light weight shell and can attach to my suitcase. Or I use the Lo& Sons back pack for travel sometimes too. I have that one in navy.

    9. My old Cuyana totes are it for me. I bought them in maybe 2017-2019 time frame. I have one open tote in a lighter color for warm weather, and a burgundy zipper tote for rainy/wintery weather. These bags have been all over the US and even to Europe with me a few times.

      1. Oh I miss the quality of Cuyana from back then! I wish I’d kept the burgundy zipper tote I bought then, but I told myself I had enough bags….. and now that I’m in the market again, the quality seems to have sunk

  8. Does anyone know of a slip-equivalent for pants? Something like anti-chub rub shorts aren’t slippery enough to try to wear under unlined wool pants. I need something slick like a regular slip, but for pants. Most of my newer wool pants are unlined and this winter, my skin is not tolerating touching wool at all.

      1. This. There are also full length ones. Just search “slip for pants” and you will get results. I use them for unlined pants all of the time. Are they attractive, no. Do they serve the same function was lining in my nice trousers that unfortunately no longer come lined, yes. They are more affordable than the silk long underwear.

      1. I feel like the long underwear is either too long or bunchy or not silky enough (so maybe nylon?). I think I need something that ends below the knee so it won’t be visible now that pants all seem to be short.

    4. I tried googling and got some Victorian ruffle cos-play things and even hoop skirts. I may have the vapors now.

      1. Isn’t it amazing what women used to have to wear? I get distracted if my socks feel bunchy or too tight. I can’t even imagine going about the day to day with all of that dragging you down.

        1. Crinoline hoop skirts were actually an improvement on what women had to wear before their were invented since they replaced multiple layers of petticoats and were much squishier. I have worn one and they are not as bad as you would think, although there is definitely a learning curve. In fact, lower class women objected to employers who wanted to prevent them from wearing them (either because of safety concerns – they got caught in machinery and were a hazard around fireplaces), both because it was seen as an effort to mandate class distinctions in dress and because they were more comfortable than the alternative layers.

          Before those were invented super wide skirts were only worn by rich women because the amount of fabric required was too expensive for everyone else before the industrial revolution. It is not the Victorian skirts I cannot imagine; it is the 18th century panniers!

          But I suspect the merely three layers (not including stays and hose) of the Regency period beats them all!

    6. Pantyhose, particularly the industrial grade shiny ones my grandma gave me when I got my first “real” job. No idea the brand but they make me look like I have spray-plastic legs and not even velcro could snag those things. They will outlast c0ckroaches after the nuclear apocalypse, and they so nicely make my unlined wool pants lay smoothly.

  9. Is there a reasonable alternative to the Billy bookcase? They’ve been out of stock for delivery and pickup in every configuration for months. Budget isn’t much more than the Billy goes for.

    1. This must be local because I just looked at their webpage and most (though not all) sizes and colors appear to be in stock in store and for delivery in my area (though I know the website isn’t always accurate). But pretty much any ikea bookshelf would also work. I have a lot of the kallax, which has deeper shelves that aren’t as ideal for small books but work well for our larger ones and are versatile for all kinds of other storage. I also have a lot of hemnes stuff, though no bookshelves. Both have held up pretty well despite multiple cross country moves and vicious attacks by cats, much better than the one Billy we used to have.

    3. I’m wondering the same; I also need some affordable, practical bookcases that are designed to hold actual books, not knick knacks.

    4. Have you tried looking for it used? Or other used options? I bought some incredible room & board bookcases used via aptdeco some years ago, and they were not much more than new Billys.

      1. Oh, that site is new to me and I now know what I’ll be wasting time looking at the rest of the day!

    6. I like buying second hand wood pieces, you can get better quality. eBay has a lot of listings, more than Facebook marketplace.

    8. IMHO it depends what you’re looking for. Stick with Billy if you’re trying to customize it for built ins or something else.

      If you just want a single bookcase for books, just do Walmart or Amazon and be done with it. Lots of good options.

      If you’re ok with a heavier piece made of actual wood, definitely look at FB or auction sites. Just keep in mind you might have to rent a uhaul to pick it up if it’s a single piece and it may be really heavy. For most of our purposes we prefer the MDF.

    9. Walmart and Target have book cases in various configurations.

      Signed, someone who lives in a campus town.

    10. I bought one of target’s cheap house brand (threshold?) 5 shelf bookcases in 2020 (wasn’t looking to go in a stranger’s house for real wood used, on a budget & just needed something) and it’s held up perfectly well. Mix of plants, books, and glass/ceramic on the shelves. Haven’t moved it yet but it looks great still, even with occasional water spill clean ups from watering plants.

    11. My bookcases are wood, which i bought unfinished from a local store and then paid them to finish them for me. They weren’t much more than IKEA at the end of the day, but much nicer than IKEA, and yes, they can hold actual books (mine are absolutely full) without sagging.

    12. A number of years ago I got a bookcase at Lowe’s that has held up quite well. Not where you would think to buy one, but they actually have a decent number. I assume Home Depot does as well.

  10. I have planned a trip to Montreal and Quebec City for May 2025. We are flying into Montreal on the 22nd and out on the 28th. We also have tickets to Cirque de Soleil in Montreal on May 24th. Past that, nothing is planned. Please give me thoughts and ideas on what I absolutely must do/not miss in both cities.

    1. May seems a little tricky for this trip as it’s too late for winter fun but not like, reliably ‘summer mood.’ Winter stuff we liked that would apply in mild weather – climb up Mont Royal for the view and a drink at the top, a walking tour of the old city, and also the Biodome.

      I went in Feb 2020 so my restaurant recs are out of date, but the food scene was great!

      1. We went to QC over Memorial Day weekend last year and had beautiful weather! Hopefully OP will have the same experience. I thought it was a great time to visit.

        I would recommend staying at the Chateau Fronterac in Quebec City. The ferry across the river is a nice way to see the city from the water. The old town is very cute – you can definitely spend an afternoon or more wandering the shops. We also enjoyed going to Montmorency Falls and Île d’Orléans though you need a car to get there.

    3. Stay at the Chateau Fronterac in Quebec City. Truly stay there, absolutely an experience. We enjoyed the Fort and just walking around. Eat Poutine. So much poutine. In Montreal, I personally enjoy the Jean-Talon market and you can get Montreal bagels there (which I don’t like as much as classic NY bagels, but my husband thinks are great).

    4. Montreal suggestions:
      Schwartz’s Deli for classic Montreal smoked meat. Bagels at St. Viateur. Joe Beef (look up the amazing history of the name!) for dinner and/or Vin Papillon and/or Mon Lapin. Drinks at Le 9e to see the amazing architecture of this former early 20th century department store. Atwater and/or Jean Talon Markets for the food stalls. Notre Dame Basilica (be sure to go to the chapel in the back to see the incredible modernist art) and wandering through Old Montreal. Take the metro to St. Joseph’s Oratory. The Botanical Garden and the Museum of Contemporary Art are also wonderful sites.

      Quebec City suggestions:
      Wander through the Old City: Chateau Frontenac, Dufferin Terrace, Petit Champlain, Place Royale. Tour the Citadelle (you may encounter the Governor General!). Take the ferry across the river and back for amazing views of the Plains of Abraham. Eat at Aux Anciens Canadiens, a restaurant in the oldest house in Quebec (1625!). St. Hubert (chain restaurant) for poutine.

      I love these two cities and have been many times. Hope you enjoy your trip.

    5. Second the Biodome but also spend time at the Montréal Botanical Gardens! Your dates may be too late to see the magnolias and cherry blossoms, but you should be able to catch the lilacs. It’s truly beautiful there in May if the weather is nice. You could also make a trip to the Montmorency Falls just outside Québec.

    6. Do the Aura Experience light show at the Notre-Dame Basilica in Montreal. My husband and I aren’t religious and we absolutely loved it. We saw it 6 years ago and still rave about it to anyone who vaguely mentions they might be going to Montreal

    7. Walk around the neighbourhoods at the plateau.

      Personally I don’t like poutine at all, if my potatoes are to be smothered I want them boiled, but highly recommend crepes and local micro brews.

      1. I planned a bachelorette party in Montreal, and we spent an afternoon at Bota Bota (the boat spa). It was great for a group of women, AND so relaxing.

    9. Have you factored in that Montreal and Quebec City aren’t exactly next door to each other and involve travel?

      1. Yes, the plan is to take the train between the two which takes 3- 3.5 hours and runs every day, all day. We looked at a flight into one and out of the other and it became a nightmare quickly. The flights out of QC just didn’t work for us or cost a ton or added 2 or 3 layovers in random cities.

  11. People who attend finance conferences – are we still doing business cards for networking there? I’ll be attending my first conference shortly since Covid started and our firm has pulled back on ordering cards for people, but I don’t know if that’s universal or something stupid we are doing. What say you?

    1. No one exchanges cards. More likely look up the person’s LinkedIn while you’re standing there and send a request.

    3. take a screenshot of your LinkedIn QR code and save it as a “fave” picture so it’s easy to pull up and just share that when you meet people.

    4. Not in finance, but my industry still exchanges cards at conferences. Not many, but I almost always hand out at least a couple. I go to conferences both to coordinate with contractors/engineers, to sell our services and to find product partners to sell. I’m not networking for different jobs. I share that because I know others attend conferences with different goals.

      FWIW I hate LinkedIn; I’m definitely not using it to make any connections I’m actually serious about using for real business. You can email me to exchange contact info if no card, that’s fine.

    6. Finance here and cards were not terribly common at the last couple of conferences I attended but they were much smoother than trying to get slow wifi to work so we could find each other on LinkedIn. And getting QR codes to scan wasn’t foolproof (lots of people are rightly hesitant to scan those, or if they have corporate devices the ability to scan them was turned off). It was easier to just swap cards.

  12. Any suggestions besides Poupette St. Barth for caftan-style swim coverups? I want to look like a 70s supermodel with giant sunglasses and a hat and caftan.

    5. The Tuckernuck house brand Tnuck Beach had cute ones in the past. I am not sure if they are selling them right now though.

  13. Should I stay or should I go? You all have helped me a lot over the years and I’d like your opinion on the constant debate in my head, staying in my marriage or not. We’ve been married 11 years, have two young kids, and have never gotten along great — think constant low-grade conflict. I had two come to Jes*s moments with him over the last two years and that has worked in decreasing the conflict. I’ve done a ton of therapy, which has helped. We did relationship counseling for almost a year, it helped at first but toward the end the counselor said that he needed to do more individual work before she could help us more and that the current situation was not sustainable (that was before the second come to Jes#s moment). We are totally and fundamentally aligned on values, parenting, finances, and goals for the future. We enjoy each other’s company a lot. What I’ve realized after all this, and what I wish I had understood when I was much youngers was that we’re just not a great fit. We set each other off, we trigger each other, we annoy each other, we want a different degree of plans, social life, and relationships, we value different things a day. It takes too much work to avoid conflict. We just do not bring out the best in each other. We are doing the work but I don’t think it will ever be seamless. My family and friends are torn when I ask them what to do. It’s like right on the edge. If I had to do it all over again I would look for someone that I just fit with better. But, it feels so weird to divorce over the “little” things. Thoughts?

    1. Hmmm, have you tried making your own rules to how you live together that recognize the things that set you both off? I’ve found a lot of therapy plays to the “shoulds” rather than the what works. My husband and I divide things up in a way that no one else would but it works for us and isn’t always “even.” For example, I spend a lot more money than he does and travel by myself with friends often. It’s what I was used to before we married and keeping that going keeps me and thus us happy. If you fundamentally enjoy each others company and are aligned on the big stuff, I’d make a real effort at taking a different approach to the small stuff. And focus less on “shoulds.” Like should you save money for retirement, yes, but also if that money is spent on childcare to give you both a break and stay happy, toss the former and do what works.

      1. this. Re-thinking how your marriage works is going to be *much* cheaper and less stressful than divorce and more satisfying in the long run. (Speaking as someone who is very happy in a marriage that is non-traditional in many ways).

        If you are aligned on values, parenting, finances, and goals then you can build a great marriage on just that; you don’t have to be a “great fit” hedonically.

        Think of how marriages worked when there was less of an expectation that spouses were each other’s “person” – spouses often interacted in limited and quite formal ways and otherwise lived in separate spheres, and built strong and stable families and communities this way.

        Looking at my friends who are divorced – they get together and tell each other how much happier they are now, what a great decision it was, how empowered they feel… but their lives are much harder, emptier, poorer and more stressful.

          1. Right? So I guess you don’t believe them when they say they’re happier and you’re just looking down your nose at them from the outside. News flash: Nobody really knows what anybody else’s life is like, and that goes double for anybody else’s marriage.

          2. It’s true though. And they’re all trying to date and repeating the same cycle. If you’re 70% of the way there and have kids and love each other, it makes a lot more sense to try to make it work than to blow up your life because girl power or something.

          3. I’m happily married, but every divorced mom I know seems genuinely so much happier, more fulfilled and less stressed without her ex. Poorer, maybe; most women do take at least a short term financial hit from divorce but they’d all tell you it was worth it.

            It’s absolutely wild to me that you don’t believe your friends are happy and have decided their lives are terrible and empty because they’re divorced. With “friends” like you, who needs enemies?

          4. Leave your “friends” alone and let them find friends who actually like and respect them, 12:26. Talk about Smug Married. The worst example in a long time.

        2. Yeah, not sure I agree with this, 12:26. The divorced women in my life took a financial hit. Coparenting with an ex isn’t easy and does seem stressful from my vantage point. And yet, on the whole, they seem so much happier and healthier than when they were in struggling marriages, like a weight has been lifted.

        3. I got divorced ten years ago after a 25-year marriage. I’m not as well off financially as if I had stayed – I bought a house at 55 – but I promise you my life is easier, richer and exponentially less stressful than when I was married.

        4. I cannot tell OP whether to get a divorce. The only person who can decide the is her. But there is a tendency here to ignore the downsides of divorce and nobody IRL wants to admit their blew their life up for no good reason.

          So in a safely anonymous place – I will say it out loud. I divorced my husband and the father of my children for reasons that were a lot better than OP’s. It was the worst mistake of my life. I am much worse off financially. Eligible men my age are thin on the ground. Most of my social network disappeared, although I am slowly re-building it. One of my kids hates me and the other is following her lead. And in retrospect a lot of the reasons I was unhappy were not fixed by my divorce. My life is much, much harder single than it was married and at least until my kids are adults I still have to deal with my ex. If you ask me, I will put the best face on it because it is embarrassing to admit but there you have it.

          So OP – you can only make the best decision you can make for your life. And only you can make it. Just be sure you consider the negatives as well as the positives.

          1. I don’t think anyone should get divorced counting on there being someone better out there. I knew I was ready to divorce when I knew for sure I’d rather be single for the rest of my life than live one more day with someone who fundamentally didn’t really like me and was angry at me all the time. He wasn’t a terrible person (at least not from the outside), but he wasn’t my person, and I didn’t want to throw the rest of my life away living in a tense, unhappy situation.

            As it turned out, I did remarry, so there was someone better (for me) out there. Marriage is work for sure, but it works a lot better when there’s a real compatibility at the heart of it. Which it sounds like OP doesn’t have.

          2. I am getting divorced because I would rather be single than married to that man. His hobby is beating me down, first emotionally, then he dipped his toes into the physical.

            If you had a good reason to divorce and are unhappy after, maybe the problem wouldn’t have been solved by staying married.

          3. This tracks my friends’ experiences much more closely than the everything is amazing narrative that’s socially popular.

          1. This is a terrible and insulting take. Two people cannot live as cheaply as one. Divorce is financially hard for a lot of people, but disproportionally for women. The average woman’s household income falls by 41% following a divorce – nearly twice the loss experienced by men. That does not mean she married for money.

          2. The “terrible and insulting take” was the woman who does not believe her own friends who state quite honestly that they are better off divorced than married.

            Also, learn reading comprehension. I said nothing about the lives of divorced women; my comments were to “anon.”

    2. I cannot imagine spending my entire life having to actively avoid daily low grade conflict with my spouse. You sound well positioned for divorce (like the kids will experience consistency of approach in the different households)!

      1. Yep, this sounds exhausting. This is not a little thing to get divorced over. You are not compatible. In the long run it will probably be better for your kids to not live with this constant undercurrent of their parents being annoyed with each other all the time.

        1. I’m not sure about this. If there was a constant undercurrent of two siblings being annoyed with each other all the time (not the rarest situation!), there’d have to be a different solution.

          2. Not really… plenty of siblings are estranged, which is the familial equivalent of divorce, and in many cases the estrangement was over “little” stuff.

          3. It’s different because there’s no straightforward solution to sibling conflict, whereas OP’s conflict has one – split up.

    3. My very first thought is that you’ve had tons of therapy, you’ve had relationship counseling, you’ve talked with all your family and friends, and now you’re polling the internet. Do you have a sense of what kind of response you’re hoping from all these people, and what you’re not getting from them?

      So, I’d suggest filling in this blank, for yourself: “I’m hoping someone will say to me: ____.”

      2. +1. It sounds like you are looking for someone to give you “permission” to divorce. If you want to get a divorce, just do it.

      1. You don’t have to be in the situation to know it’s impacting the kids. That sort of tension just… permeates life. It’s actually more stressful when they’re NOT fighting because you’re anticipating when the next fight will break out.

    5. I can’t speak for you, but I can speak for myself. Would it be seamless with anyone? I honestly think I’m partly just a kind of difficult person, and I don’t always live up to my own goals for myself. There are a lot of fun things I simply don’t enjoy and a lot of days when I’m tired and don’t make it through my to-do list, and I’m easily annoyed (this is partly from pain and poor sleep, but it’s hard to just fake that I’m in a good mood!). The people I’m closest too are also the people who I’m most easily hurt by. I think my husband is also objectively difficult; he’s scattered and bad with deadlines and staying organized. One of us has an Irish temper and one of us has a Sicilian temper (therapy did help). But we love each other and enjoy each other’s company, so the small things are price of admission to me. When it was constant low grade conflict for us, there was usually another factor, like a needlessly stressful job or living in cramped quarters or going through something very difficult together and needing to let it all out eventually. We’ve joked about living in next door apartments someday insofar as 90% of our low level conflict is just from cohabiting. Now if we also had young children I still think I’d really be white knuckling it some of the time! But divorce doesn’t solve co-parenting issues anyway, and children don’t stay young. So I might ask if these are issues that are transient or circumstantial, or conversely unavoidable in any relationship that is close enough. Or if it’s unique to this relationship and also not circumstantial, why is that?

    6. It is not a little thing that you spend a significant amount of time and energy managing this low level of conflict – how exhausting, on top of 2 young kids. I’m not one to quickly recommend leaving someone or divorce. But life is short; I need conflict with my husband to be the exception, not the rule. He is my safe space and I need to be able to go in with the good, the bad and the ugly and know I’ll be supported. You deserve to be happy and I don’t get the sense you are.

    8. I don’t have any sage advice to tell you other than, it is absolutely ok to divorce over the “little” things. Living right on the edge of conflict is not a little thing. It makes you constantly stressed, regulating everyone’s emotions including yours. It really and truly should not be that way.

        1. Yup. I came on here with a similar question 12 years ago and you all said DTMFA and I did and it’s been great.

    10. You want a divorce, and that’s OK. Living this way sounds really exhausting for everyone. And you’ve tried. You guys sound like the epitome of being better as friends than as spouses.

    11. I was in almost your exact position about a year and a half ago (but without kids). The short answer: get a divorce.

      I always liked spending time with my husband– we laughed, we enjoyed traveling together, we had the same hobbies, he pulled his weight with housework etc. And yet. Our romantic chemistry was zero. And we would bicker constantly. I felt like his default setting was annoyance with me. little things like that. I had that voice in the back of my head telling me to leave, but it didn’t seem like I had a good enough reason.

      Eventually due to a confluence of reasons I pulled the plug and woah, I am SO GLAD I got divorced. There were a bunch of bigger issues that I hadn’t noticed until I was out of the relationship.

      I am a million times happier now that I’m divorced. I have had one boyfriend so far– someone who was actually *nice* to me, and it kind of blew my mind. I didn’t realize how awful my ex’s irritability was until I had something to compare it to. (The BF didn’t work out, but the kindness sticks with me)

      Also there’s a great Cheryl Strayed Dear Sugar column where she talks about wanting to leave being enough, which really helped me.

      1. This is exactly right.

        I read the OP’s post and I thought that she buried a lede. But it didn’t seem like she thought she was burying a lede… so maybe it was something that she hadn’t noticed or was working hard to not notice.

        What you described in your third paragraph is *exactly* what I think will happen to the OP.

        My own advice? Counterintuitively, if you have kids, it’s better to file sooner rather than later. I left my marriage when I was hanging onto “amicable coparenting” by the skin of my teeth and… had I stayed even a few more months, it would be disastrous.

        Plus, kids really hate it when their parents get divorced right as the youngest graduates from high school.

    12. If the constant little things add up to a constant state of tension, then that is a very big thing unless you’re a drama llama who needs that sort of thing. What about a trial separation of fairly long duration to see if that alleviates the trouble?

    13. can you give us an idea of low grade conflicts or how you annoy each other? that might help. i would be slower to divorce both for financial and child rearing reasons… if he annoys you while he’s married to you and working through it in counseling it’s going to be a b!tch to coparent with this guy and whatever new wife he ends up marrying.

    14. Posting without reading the other replies: I stayed in a marriage for 15 years, trying to twist myself into knots to make it work and try to be happy in a situation that wasn’t working for me. And the worst part was the constant “stay or go” dialogue in my head, like you’re having now. Not gonna lie — leaving was hard and I woke up weeping in the morning for a solid six months, but OMG being alone (or alone with kid/kids, which I have also done) is SO MUCH BETTER than living with an incompatible partner. I wish I’d left years sooner. And there’s always the chance that at some point a good partner will come along, but even if he doesn’t, living with somebody you don’t get along with is just soul-sucking and a bad example for your kids.

      If it were me, I would leave and work on being the best darned divorced co-parents we could be.

    15. how does that low level of conflict or stress play out? if it’s constant negotiating things like plans, social, etc. – I feel like that can be worked through with some unconventional setups. Like separating some finances, carving out time for individual travel or hobbies, etc. Are you trying to force certain things because ‘that’s what married couples do’ and not ‘this works for us’?
      If it’s that low but present buzz of disagreement, when is the next argument coming, etc. – please get divorced. I grew up in that household and it sucks.

      also if you’re asking this many groups what to do – sounds like you’re waiting for him to do something ‘bad’ enough to justify it. Don’t. Do it now while you still are aligned on goals & parenting, sounds like you’re in a good place to coparent & much better than waiting til there’s a major betrayal to work through too.

    16. My advice as a divorced parent is that you should do the individual work first before you start walking towards divorce.

      I’m mid 40s and very happy I got divorced. My ex husband is extremely high conflict and the post divorce abuse has been horrific; far worse than the abuse while we were married. I’m also single with zero chance of having a relationship because the single men in the 40+ age group are horrendous.

      You know your husband. Ask yourself honestly if he is able to coparent without conflict. Is your relationship bickering peaking because you have young children? How is the gardening going? Know that post separation there is zero gardening unless you are ok with one night stands.

      Financially speaking, single motherhood is expensive. I earn enough and he doesn’t reimburse me on time EVER. It’s insane. He currently owes me about $30k. It’s going to cost me $20k to get that back.

      The previous poster isn’t wrong to point out the downsides but when someone tells you they are happier divorced take it at face value. I don’t openly share the abuse I’ve had to tolerate. I also don’t share the privilege I feel from being able to divorce this man who I was legally tied to. Financially speaking I’m better off overall because his spending was ridiculous. I do recommend you figuring out what single mom life would look like for you. Will you need to live off $150 food budget for yourself and 3 children? If so, trial it for a month. Learn these things before you get divorced.

  14. Can I just complain about something extremely minor right now? I want to watch Slow Horses, and Apple has not released a single season on DVD! I can buy some bootleg version I guess, but why streaming services insist on gatekeeping their own highly successful shows is a real annoyance. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

    1. Well they want you to pay for Apple TV. It’s not rocket science. Most streaming shows don’t go to DVD.

    2. That was such a good show. I’m not sure I knew there were seasons of it vs just one.

    3. Can I ask why you don’t just stream it? I get that there are some places that still don’t have good internet access for streaming, or maybe you’re in a country without Apple TV, or given that companies keep taking away streaming access, I also understand wanting to own something, but otherwise, if you just want to watch it, you could get a free trial and watch all four seasons in a few weeks vs paying $20×4 to buy DVDs, if they were available.

      1. I just prefer not to add additional subscription services to my life, even (or especially) ones I intend to cancel after a few weeks. And if it’s released on DVD, I can usually get it from the library and watch it for free. But that’s why it’s a minor complaint, haha.

        1. Sorry but it’s 2025, you need to subscribe to a streaming service if you want to watch a streaming show. You can cancel after a month.

        2. I think you are making up an issue. It is far easier to cancel a streaming service than to go check out and then return DVDs at the library. I trend toward Luddite, but I think you need to work on coming into the present with a little more enthusiasm.

        3. I’m with you. Streaming services are unreliable where I live–some won’t let you stream from your phone to the TV (assume awful internet) even if you’re willing to pay money to make it happen.

    4. Doesn’t it only cost like $4 a month for AppleTV? Just join for 1 month.

      I mean, you want to watch hours and hours of a really great British TV show for free. Think about it. Who is supposed to be paying for that?

      If you want good arts and culture, you need to pay something.’
      This is truly a bargain.

      You really think you have a right to high quality entertainment for free?

      1. I’m with OP. DVD releases are still attractive!

        I still want to buy officially released DVDs of some shows, to keep as my own hard copy. I often want to buy something I’ve already seen at a subscription service.

        She’s not asking for free, she wants to pay specifically for this show

    5. What is your aversion to joining the streaming service/attachment to using outdated technology? AppleTV is pretty inexpensive and certainly cheaper than purchasing DVDs, so I am assuming this is not a $$ issue. Is it that you are certain you will want to watch it over and over in perpetuity so wish to own it?

    6. When I’ve looked recently there weren’t a lot of dvds for anything, just blue rays if anything. Streaming can be annoying and I’m also disturbed we don’t own anything (not even kindle books, apparently) but it is what it is.

        2. I’m very frugal, I use the library a ton (sadly mine is poor and urban and limited), but I’ve never in my adult life (I’m 32) owned a dvd player. Even my poor library system has streaming.

          1. I confess, it’s not a dvd player, it’s a playstation console, but it does play dvds. And when I’m emotionally ready to move from the technology of the nineties to the technology of the early aughts it will play my blu-rays!

            But mostly I’m intrigued by the idea that your library offers video streaming services? Mine has e-books and stuff, but nothing like that.

          3. Different anon, but Hoopla and Kanopy are great video streaming services offered through many libraries. Or if you’re willing to put up with ads, you can do free streaming without a subscription through services like Tubi, which actually has a really fantastic selection of movies, much better than Netflix these days.

          4. Nothing to add to the larger conversation, just glad to see there are other full-grown adults out there using their spouse’s PS as the family DVD player.

      2. We do, but mainly to show my daughter movies we can’t find on any streaming service. Recent examples include A League of Their Own and Paddington 2. The latter surprised me since it’s recent, but we have pretty much all the streaming things and it wasn’t on any of them.
        I would never check out a DVD for a streaming show or movie; I would just stream it.

      3. I do for my favorites, because I like to rewatch things and want to actually own them for when/if they go off streaming. Or for days when the internet is being annoying and either not working or being so slow streaming doesn’t really function (rare, but it happens). And there are still a lot of places in this country where you can’t get good enough internet to reliably stream.

      4. Our library doesn’t purchase dvds any more as no one owns dvd players. The ones they have are very poor quality (I hear).

    8. I haven’t owned a DVD player in over a decade…

      I only pay for one streaming service at a time, and just alternate. That way I’m like max $10 a month.

    9. Ohh, this show looks good. I’ll add it to my list of apple shows that I am going to watch once I readd Apple TV and cancel Hulu. It’ll probably happen in May or so

      1. Also add Dark Matter based on the Blake Crouch sci-fi thriller. Both book and TV show are so good!

    10. OP, I support your Old Man Yells at Cloud moment. I, too, am annoyed that I have to get another whole streaming service to watch this one show, then remember to cancel the service.
      Good lord, can we just let someone be annoyed with something in peace? Some of us just want the kids off our dang lawns.

      1. I feel like it reflects a problem that developed with technology.

        My niece is a smart AND wealthy 20 year old. But she steals all of the movies/music/books she wants, as she knows how to do this online. All of her peers do it. She actually looks at me like I’m crazy when I suggest she pay for it.

        I mean, our orchestras are going bankrupt, our musicians are struggling unless they are superstars that sell crazy expensive concert tickets, writers always struggle, the quality of our movies is regressing to a depressing mean etc… And soon all government support of the arts will be gone.

        Please pay to support the arts.

        1. +1

          Signed, I work for free because most symphony orchestras can’t afford to pay their choruses even thought many choristers are former or current professional musicians

    1. Should be required reading for everyone. Sadly with our education levels and attention spans, most Americans probably couldn’t make it through the first page even if they tried.

    2. Why would she resign though? She rightly refused to carry out unlawful orders and should stay and force the AG to fire her.

      1. i think three more people have resigned – dahlia lithwick just posted the resignation letter from an assistant district attorney from the SDNY… and 2 resigned in DC also last night when they tried to kick the case there to dismiss it.

    3. She’s offering to resign, but not resigning as reported. She is saying if you don’t change your mind (or change mine), you can accept this resignation letter. So in my mind, she has not resigned unless/until its accepted. What am I missing?

      I admire her taking this position.

      1. It’s like an if/then letter, but I feel like the IF part will happen and so will the then. But this is the best way to handle it — cold and on the record.

        [I haven’t followed the Adams situation all that closely but I liked him much better than his opponent. And Turkey??? It’s like what happened with Senator Menendez in NJ.]

        1. he is Crimey McCrimerson… it’s been corruption his entire term, including conducting “business” at a club like a mobster. man doesn’t even live in the 5 boroughs.

          1. Interesting. I guess there is QOL crime that people like me care about and white collar / political crime, which I don’t fear walking down the street (until I’m mistakenly bundled into the back of a van with the windows blacked out).

            I guess we’re all learning to live like people do in other countries.

      2. I also like her backing up the career line attorneys as people who did nothing wrong and just did their job no matter the politics of the higher-ups.

        [And with this and Hunter Biden: if you go after people, you are damned, and if you let them skate on serious felonies, you are also damned.]

    4. Remember when …. Everyone was resigning from the first administration in acrostic paragraphs so the first letter of every paragraph spelled out, like, WARNING or something like that? That was weird
      And we didn’t listen

    5. Wow, I learned a lot reading that. Also, what an amazing woman. I’ve been actively avoiding the news, know Adams is corrupt, but not much else. Thank you for sharing!

  16. Does anyone have a long weekend? Don’t particularly feel like celebrating presidents this year.

    1. I mean. Do most people “celebrate” president’s day? It’s just a day off. I never do anything to commemorate presidents.

    2. Nope, and I even work for the (state) government. Kids were supposed to be off school, but they’re making up a snow day so they’ll go to school.

    3. No long weekend here, but we get Good Friday off. Because my firm has Values.

      2. It’s not because Values. It’s because the stock market is closed for some inexplicable reason. I observe Good Friday as a religious occasion and never heard of taking it off work until my husband got a job at a financial company. Services are in the evening and there is no requirement to fast or abstain from work or anything similar.

        1. It is required in some Christian traditions to fast (including mine); and traditional to hold vigil + not work between 12-3pm. I use a PTO day, and I think that’s reasonable – people have different religious observances and there’s no reason one religion’s should be civil holidays over everyone else’s – but it’s not that unusual for Christians to observe that day in ways beyond just evening services

      3. I’m not the 2:38 poster but my old law firm gave us Good Friday but not MLK day off, and it was not because of the stock market; it was because the management was all old white men who were racist and didn’t believe religions except Christianity existed. Just because it’s a stock market holiday doesn’t mean that’s why a company gives it to employees.

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