Coffee Break: Campari Mesh Ballet Flats

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1. What are people wearing to work conferences where the men will be in suits or the formal end of business-casual (collared shirt + blazer)? I feel like I went to these with no need to think out clothes pre-COVID and with time passage and a recent size change, struggling to find appropriate things in my closet.

   Struggle example: Shirtdresses with straighter skirts vs shirtdresses with a waist and a long full skirt. #1 might work but #2 seems too tradwife to be an attendee vs a spouse of a male attendee. OTOH, in 2025, women’s clothes straddles the line more between work and non-work but many offices are “wear anything,” so that’s a reasonable strategy for selling clothes. Not helping me pack a suitcase.

   Finance conference, if it matters. $

   1. If the men are in suits, I think that you go in a suit as well. You can dress it down with good sneakers instead of heels, and a t-shirt under the jacket.

      If it’s the business end of business casual, my go-tos are black wide-leg pants with a blouse and a black cardigan, or a lady jacket/interesting blazer with dress pants (as opposed to jeans).

      If it’s business casual, I am a big fan of jeans and a good blazer.

      1. I think sneakers with a suit would be out of place at a conference like OP describes.

         1. Especially with a skirt suit. You’d look like one of those Best in Show dog trainers.

            Maybe with cropped pants in the summer but weird in February IMO unless you are in Miami or somewhere really warm.

         2. The last two conferences I attended, about a quarter of the women were wearing sneakers with suits.

            1. I’ve attended 4 conferences since December with folks working in healthcare finance. Zero sneakers and suits (though a lot of folks going less formal than full suits).

   2. Shirtdresses are not equivalent to what you describe for the men. I’d wear something like a lady jacket over a column of color (black, navy).

      1. +1

         Agree

      2. So now I’m really curious — when and where should we be wearing shirtdresses? I feel like they need to bring back What Not to Wear because I am a hot mess now. I don’t mean to be, but I can’t figure it out even with trying especially since I haven’t seen a woman in a suit since I had jury duty last year.

         1. The tailored ones can go to the office just fine, they’re just not the same ‘level’ as an actual jacket like what the OP describes the men will be wearing.

            The flowy ones, they’re just a different form of rufflepuff. Some people wear them to the office, but not women in positions of power around my org.

            1. I thought that a dress was a legit work outfit. Like if you want a dress + matching jacket, you could veer into St. John matchy-matchy territory. I used to like that combo myself, but outside of St. John and some MOB-wedding looking sets, I feel that it hasn’t come back post-pandemic (so for me, all work dresses now need sleeves or need to be something worn with a non-matching lady jacket).

            2. ? No one is suggesting a dress and matching jacket in this thread, at all. A non-matching jacket over a top & pants, or maybe over a sheath if you like dresses better.

               Not all dresses are the same level of formal – you know that, right? One of The Fold’s suiting dresses would hold up perfectly well against a sea of suits. A shirtdress, particularly a flowy one? Not the same…

         2. Yikes — I am realizing that I do not understand clothes as well as I thought I did. I now get how people mistake formal (shiny) clothes with formal (non-shiny) clothes because they focus on the formality and not if it is festive vs formal/somber. So what you wear to church on a typical Sunday may not work at a wedding or a funeral / job interview. Unless you’re a man, in which case it’s all fine.

   3. I just want to say, I think we all misremember the ease of pre-covid dressing. There were lots of “what do I wear to a conference” questions then too!

      1. I was at a conference in the spring. men were in suits. women were in everything. i wore suits with cute sneakers. i was well within the bell curve of appropriate. good luck.

      2. Possibly yes, but I feel that you could more easily buy work attire at your local mall — like it was a category at shops like Ann Taylor and Banana and J Crew and Nordstrom and they were often in-stock (even at my local Talbots). Now, even if a store makes it, what is stocked is black pants (not a problem), but not enough things to make a wardrobe of outfits with. I am struggling after going up a size and can’t just rebuy larger because the thing that used to be a daily driver (lined wool pants, work dresses with sleeves and a flattering skirt that wasn’t rufflepuff-esque) doesn’t really exist anymore.

   4. Pencil skirt and silk shirt. I wouldn’t go out of my way to make a blazer work.

      1. Ha — I sized up due to peri / comfort food is comforting and went to buy new pencil skirts and could not find any IRL and the ones I ordered were horrible fails. Maybe I should try again but I wasn’t anticipating this level of struggle.

         1. You may need to size up several sizes to get the right fit. Pencil skirts should be hanging loose over your curves, not hugging them.

            1. I’m a pear, so sizing up for my hips means that the waist is loose enough to fall off. And i am learning that trying to nip in the waist without it being too tight in the seat is a hard thing for tailors to do so it’s perfect. Maybe they are used to men. It shouldn’t be so hard — maternity skirts were the only time this was easy and that’s because of a 4″ elastic cuff.

   5. I go to these conferences in finance, and my suit-equivalent is a very tailored dress with sleeves, suit-separates with sleeveless dress or pants, or suit. Shirtdress would not be equivalent.

   6. I go to a ton of conferences with CFOs and those working in other leadership roles in financial management, and a t-shirt and sneakers with a suit would look really, really out of place.

      For the event you describe, I usually go with a suiting dress in a dark color and pair with a lady jacket cardigan if more casual or a blazer if more formal. My other go-to if more casual end of business is suit pants, blouse and lady jacket cardigan or a non-matching blazer. I rarely wear suits unless I’m speaking.

      A lot of times there are adjoining activities or casual dinners that I need to pack for as well. Talbots sometimes has options that are good for this sort of thing. I rarely shop there for my personal wardrobe, but professional casual is a different ball game.

   7. This time of year, I am wearing black trousers, loafers or boots (depending on weather) and a blazer or lady jacket. Top depends on the blazer/jacket and how cold I think it will be.

      This shirtdress with a straight skirt might work if you can wear a blazer with it and depending on the fabric.

      So at my last conference I rotated between black pants (full length, boot cut) with black suede ankle boots, a black long sleeve “nice” t-shirt, and a lady jacket, the next day wore a navy dress with a midi-skirt, the same jacket and low heeled pumps (with nude for me fishnet tights), and the third day I re-wore the black pants with a different shirt and different jacket. I do not have a fetish for packing light so did not mind packing two pairs of shoes (I wore sneakers on the plane) and two jackets (although jacket #2 was great with my jeans for the flights).

   8. I totally agree with Cat that column of color is what you want here, likely with a tweedy lady jacket or actual blazer. I think T-shirt is fine if it’s a solid color and a nice one.

      Shirt dresses are always informal!!

      I wouldn’t do dress + lady jacket because it’s going to be very hard to get it to look not frumpy and people will think you’re a secretary wearing a cardigan with a dress. for a lot of these older men that’s what they’ll think with a more sweatery lady jacket anyway, that you’re someone’s assistant.

   9. A suit. No question.

2. If you’ve worked through situations with layoffs hanging over you, how have you coped emotionally? Besides doing your work while still employed. What’s the balance for you between job seeking, networking, accepting the inevitable, just sitting around eating cookies or whatever makes you feel good, and being a responsible adult? As much as I want to be go go go – send out 5 networking emails per week, it kind of isn’t happening. And if someone doesn’t get back to me or there’s more bad news at work, I feel even more defeated.

   1. I went through this a year ago and didn’t do anything extra. In hindsight, I would have updated my resume while I still had access to document project metrics, accomplishments, etc.

      Send contact info to your personal email for people you want to use as references. If you have emails or praising your work, save those. Look through your past performance reviews and make note of good feedback you got. All this can be used to update your resume.

      Make sure your LinkedIn profile is updated and possibly start adding new connections. I hadn’t touched my profile in years so it needed some updates.

      1. I also went through this last year, and did nothing to prep… but this advice is perfect.

   2. When I was laid off I had no idea it was coming, so take this with a grain of salt, but… now is the time. You don’t yet have the “shame” of the layoff hanging over your head so you’ll be more confident. (There is no shame in it, particularly now, but you may not feel the same way when you’re laid off.) The other problem is that if your work product decreases it may make the case even stronger for your being laid off.

   3. I’d email temp agencies and ask around if anyone has worked with recruiters they have liked in the past.
      It’s helpful to have someone on your side who will gain $ to get you employed. Temp roles are not ideal, but often pay weekly and it’s nice to know you have an option if needed!

      1. Do temp agencies exist in 2025? Wouldn’t you wait and contact them after you know when you’re available?

   4. When I was in this boat, I designated a certain time of day job search/practical planning time. I did all sorts of stuff during that time – applied to jobs, researched what other kinds of jobs might be available to me (I knew that reproducing the exact role I had at the time was unlikely), prepared writing samples, reached out to people who might be able to give me some freelance or temp work, etc. And then once that part of the day I was done, I could wallow or eat cookies or hang out with friends and just be normal, depending on how I felt that day. It helped me to do all that stuff to know that it was just for a set amount of time and I didn’t have to spend all night on it.

   5. You do the practical thing in front of you that can be done that day, and then you walk away from it and live your life. Tomorrow is tomorrow; getting defeated about it today, or hyped-up in expectation about it today doesn’t do you any good. Tomorrow, you do what you can, and then leave it all alone.

      If the question is, “How do I deal with my emotions when I’m in a place of great uncertainty? I’ve always been someone who needs to know answers NOW, and the not-knowing and not-being-in-control is driving me nuts—not to mention that I’m generally anxious and I’ve never learned how to even out and be OK when everything is uncertain,” then that’s a whole different ballgame.

   6. Getting laid off or fired was always one of my top fears. And then it happened unexpectedly. And I worked hard, swallowed my pride, put myself out there again and again in interviews all over the city, and I got a new job within three or four months, which felt like forever at the time, but looking back, I’m like, wow, go me. Do not let fear define your life. If this happens (and it happens to a lot of people) you will survive!

   7. For me, a lot of this depends on the company’s severance policy and your personal financial situation. I was expecting to get laid off for months before it happened, but I was 0% worried about it because I knew I would get 6 months of salary continuation, I had plenty of savings, and my husband is a federal employee, which was still a very secure job at that time.

      I do wish I had brushed up my resume, saved performance reviews, and networked better while I waited for notice, but instead I just kinda did my job and lived my life.

3. I would appreciate any and all opinions on my situation. I have a job that is fine, the work is boring but I have a great boss and I have a ton of flexibility. I’m currently fully remote. I was reached out to by my old company for a position that is one title higher and the pay is much better ($105k currently vs $150k in the other role). It would be 3 days in office per week with a 30 minute commute each way. The work is harder and more time consuming but more interesting. I also really like the hiring manager.

   I have a one year old and part of me loves where I am right now because it affords me a ton of time with her and I never feel guilty if I have to juggle a sick day with work. The other part of me misses the challenge and would love the bump in prestige and money. It would be a good time to change jobs so I have time to get established before trying to another kid. On the other hand, we’re doing fine financially and I feel guilty about considering a job that would give me less time with my daughter (maybe 15-20 less minutes a day, but that seems like a lot when I only get an hour in the morning and and hour and a half at night).

   Husband is in sales with a 50% of his salary being commission, so he feels a lot more stress from having to take a day off to watch a sick kid than I do. He makes $140k if he hits his number and his office is 10 min from the house/daycare.

   What would you do/ have you done?

   1. that is really tricky! what time is your daycare pickup? that to me would be the biggest question. is it a stretch for your husband to get there reliably, or would it be on you?

      the other one is to be mindful of the new company, whether they’re solid in this stressful time — as a new hire you’d likely be first to be laid off.

   2. I am admittedly less ambitious than many on this board, but I have really enjoyed having a more relaxed job while my children have been young. They are early elementary aged now for reference, and I am even more scaled back now than I was when they were toddlers. If I were you, I would stick with your current job that affords you a lot of flexibility. That being said, I can certainly see the flip side and would understand if someone made the opposite choice because it is a big bump in pay.

   3. People talk about this issue a lot on the moms page so you might look there for more thoughts.
      I responded on the previous thread but seem to be stuck in m-d. I stayed in the boring job but I don’t think that’s objectively right or wrong. It really depends what you want. I will say increased flexibility, shorter work hours and a job that doesn’t zap your mental energy has more benefit when your kids get to elementary age. I kind of regretted not going for a bigger job for a few years there, but as soon as my kid started elementary school I was so glad I’d stayed.
      I’d also look closely at the pay raise. $45k sounds like a lot but is a lot of it going to be eaten up by increased commuting expenses and increased childcare costs? Do the math on how much more you’ll actually bring home.

   4. I made a big move with a 12 month old baby, after refusing the recruiter a bunch of times because I just felt like I couldn’t do it. My current job at the time was ok, and my husband commuted farther to work than I did, so I had become the default flexible parent.

      But it’s good to have egalitarian parenting. I traveled more and had less flexibility in the new job, but it led to a series of opportunities that more than quadrupled my total comp over the next decade.

      My advice is don’t lean out. Take the challenge.

      1. This.

   5. Myself? I’d probably stick with the boring and flexible job. My time and energy are worth that to me at this stage. I also have a one year old and a partner with a more stressful/difficult to schedule job. I’m not inclined to ask my husband to lean out from his job so I can lean in, I’m not inclined to pay for more housecleaning or meals, and I’m not inclined to cut into my limited time with my child. If it was 50k to 100k jump, I’d take it. 100k to 150k when you and your husband are both already making decent money, doesn’t seem worth it to me.

   6. Are you me? I wrote this exact message a year ago (also had a 1yo). I took the big job and used some of the extra money to hire a babysitter/dog walker for my in office days. It’s done me a lot of good. Sometimes I miss my chill job but I’m much more energized and engaged in my career. And going to the office helps keep me engaged. I would do it again without hesitation.

   7. I would take it. I found myself wanting to lean out more when my kids were older – daycare is far easier than elementary school in terms of logistics. So I’d do what I could to build my career while I have good child care so that I can lean out more when it gets harder.

      1. + 1

         Build now and lean out in upper elementary/middle school.

         1. +1

         2. On the other hand, kids in early elementary school actually want you around all the time, so there’s something to be said for leaning out and being more present in those K-3 years. I get that tweens and teens demand more of your emotional energy and maybe more chauffeuring to various activities, but my oldest is only 9 and is already starting to move past the stage of wanting me there for everything, and I’m SO glad I had a leaned out job the past few years and got to be the Girl Scouts leader, the Room Mom, the field trip chaperone etc etc. in early elementary school when she loved having me around. I think I would have really regretted it if I’d waited until upper elementary school to lean out.

   8. Have you looked at the net take home difference with the new job?

      It’s a bit of a science project but you guys are right now under the threshold for some major things and you moving up $50k in salary could change your take home by less than you might think.

      If it still seems like a good idea, I vote do it now and put all the extra cash aside. In a few years with more kids you or your husband may want or need to scale back and the cushion will really help. Double daycare in MA is like $50k++ (it was $50j when I did it which was years ago).

      1. Agree. Compare the full salary + benefits packages for both roles. Factor in costs to commute & park, wardrobe update if needed. Think through all the differences so you can make a fully informed decision.

         And are you excited about the prospect? Dread leaving your current role? Pay attention to your gut.

   9. What do you want long term? New Job may set you up better for a different kind of flexibility – the flexibility that comes with being in more senior positions – along with a career growth trajectory.

   10. I think for me it would depend on how much the money would change my life. Do you have debt? What do your savings look like?

       I earn quite a bit less than you, but truthfully an extra $50k pre-tax wouldn’t change our lives (my husband earns more than I do, and we live in a LCOL area with a paid off house). We’d put the extra money towards nicer vacations, more charity and more savings, which would of course be nice but aren’t worth (for me) having to work harder and have less time with my family. But if this money is going to enable you to pay off debt or to catch up with insufficient retirement or college savings, then I can see how it’s a very different story.

   11. I just replied late to your earlier post. I transitioned from fully remote (with travel) to 3x/wk in person for a very similar comp increase when my daughter was 14 months. Similar jobs so I guess I can’t speak to the higher intensity part. I’m 7 months in and it’s been a great choice so far. I know I want more kids but am not ready to TTC yet and it’s been satisfying to feel like I’m maximizing my career in the interim. The money made a material difference for my HH (this may depend on your spouse’s income). You’re in a great position bc you probably know better than I could’ve whether the new gig culture will permit WFH when kids are sick, good benefits, etc. Upon reading below I do agree it’s worth considering impact on childcare, but overall I’d do it in your position.

   12. I would take it. Boring work can get really affect your morale and engagement after some time, and this is a really tough economy. It promises to be tough for some time. A better job with better pay with a manager you know may not be there in a few years when you’re ready to look again. Also it’s your old company – you know its culture, ways of working, etc. That will help.
       Someone made a comment about egalitarian parenting. I 100% cosign that. I have a travel heavy job and in the first few years of raising our kids, my travel really made it necessary for my DH to step up and figure out how to manage his work, life and kids in the same way that many women have to do. I’m not saying you should do that but if that’s a concern/question for you, this is a potential benefit of a more challenging job.
       Finally, I had a much more challenging job when my kids were younger. They’re now in MS. And I’m so glad I have an easier, known job now. It is mentally and emotionally more tiring to raise older kids so there is one argument that the younger years – if you can manage it – is when you build up professional and financial security and stability.

4. I bought one of the wool tweed J. Crew lady jackets that may have been featured here and on Cap Hill Style. It is suprisingly nice — inside button pocket. 4 outside pockets are all real. The wool makes it very warm, which is a plus for me because I have a vent over me at work and nonmovable furniture (like in prison). It was more than frugal me was used to spending and I got it on a good sale day, but it is really one of my few quality pieces and I will likely get 3 season wear from it my city, just changing the blouse / shirt up a bit.

   1. Please don’t give clicks to Cap Hill Style. Abra Belke has really repugnant views on guns and pretty unrepentant about it (somehow made a school shooting about how people were being mean to her?!?!)

      1. Really? While in her prior position years ago she was affiliated with the NRA, in her more recent content (like this year) she’s talked about it from pretty middle ground and nuanced perspective on Stories IMHO. It’s hard enough to find late 30s-early 40s influencers who actually understand office wear for this age bracket; I’m not writing her off!

         1. Same. It’s like what other bloggers / influencers thing of office attire is really wide of the mark for what I need to wear to work. Age / stage / work attire similarities are spot-on for me.

      2. +1 not worth my clicks or time any more.

      3. now i’m curious, did she say something new?

      4. Abra is leaning more liberal, I have followed her for years. She is very anti-current administration, and having grown up in Montana, is more comfortable with guns than most of this group. I do not know her position on gun control. She has great style, a 2 year old daughter, and a great blog.

         1. I went and somehow ordered two transitional jackets that I didn’t know I needed.

         2. Can someone link to it? I’m just finding really old stuff, my search terms must be off.

            1. She rarely blogs about anything other than style. On Stories she is more open.

         3. I’m late to post but i am more comfortable with guns than many in this group.

            She was an NRA lobbyist.

            Some comfort with guns and NRA lobbyist are not the same. Not at all.

      5. Please don’t tell me what I can and can’t click based on.

5. Has anyone tried out the Lo & Sons Aoyama bag and have thoughts? It’s so hard to find unbiased reviews. Is it heavy?

6. Is Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drug Company legit and fine? There’s a medicine I take that’s much cheaper there (without insurance) than going through my insurance at a regular pharmacy or the insurance company’s preferred online pharmacy.

   1. It’s fine, but I’d check GoodRx first.

   2. Yes

   3. They are, and easier to work with than many of the drug coupon programs. I have a drug that is specified as a tier 4 drug under my insurance, so it would cost $400 for a 90 day supply. Because it has uses for other things and a generic, it’s $40 for a 90 day supply at Cost Plus. I set up an account, my doc sent in the prescription, I ordered and had it within a week. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. They send timely reminders for refills, or if your prescription is about to run out, but no other junk mail.

7. I’ve been on Zepbound/Wegovy for 2.5 years covered by insurance, but I just got a new job and my new insurance doesn’t cover it. I called my doctor and they said that the compounded version of Zepbound at my current dose (15mg) is $550/month. That seems really high compared to what I’ve heard from other people, but it could be because my dose is so high. For those of you on the compounded versions (or who had to come up with a non-insurance way to get the drugs), what are you paying and what are your doses? Just trying to find a cost effective way to try to stay on my current doses and want to make sure I explore all my options. TIA!

   1. Telehealth is cheaper, but the FDA has taken it off the shortage list so compounding is set to end next month (pending lawsuits and FDA reversal).

   2. There are some programs directly through Eli Lilly for Zepbound, so you might check those out. I understand that it’s significantly cheaper to get vials from them rather than the preloaded syringes.

      1. i think the Eli Lilly vials-by-mail program stops at the .5 dose.

         I’m so sorry you didn’t find this out before you took the job.

         1. Can you just double-up on that?

            1. OP – thanks ladies. The Zepbound vial is 5mg for $550/month, so I’d need three vials a month to get to my current dose. I’m prepared to pay out of pocket for this (the new job is worth it!), but I just want to make sure I’m not missing some other cheaper option.

8. Late in the day but wondering if anyone has had experience with Elite Island Resorts? We bought a vacation certificate at a charity auction, but when I registered the certificate, the whole thing seems to be giving off timeshare / bate-and-switch vibes. Did we get duped?

   1. There are some “silent auction on the internet” services that pretend to be software for non-profits but really act more like travel agencies. You can tell by the fact they offer special vacation packages that weren’t actually donated by a real supporter of the non-profit (like a board member’s vacation home). They usually also require a 1099 if you buy one of their packages, showing the difference between what you paid and what it’s normally priced at. I avoid these items like the plague, and I always strongly urge the non-profit I’m involved with the go with caution. The silent auction platform is free or really cheap, which is why so many organizations fall for it.

      I “won” one once in a paddle-raise and refused to accept it when the first thing the volunteer asked me was my 1099 info. No way!

9. I was thinking about this today: what do you do when you have new neighbors? Do you take over a tray of brownies or something to introduce yourself? Or should the new neighbors be coming to you to introduce themselves?

   1. My opinion, but I think it is much kinder if you take the first step. Remember, they have to meet EVERYONE and are super busy moving in. You only have one new family to meet.

      1. +1, I make the first move with new neighbors.

   2. You go to them. Bring something, and then something my neighbors did, which was great — they gave me a slip of paper with their names & phone numbers, so I had them in case I needed something.

10. just caught up on Severance – I’ve read some reviews but haven’t seen anywhere what the “seal” they found was. my guess is it was Irving, especially with his weird behavior at the time. (i don’t think he knew it though.)

11. Kind of random “kid applying to college” question. My kid is a junior and is planning to apply to a range of mostly-selective four-year colleges as a senior in high school. Probably applying regular decision.

    The high school is pretty typical for a California public high school in a middle-class area. The guidance counselors (about 1 for every 300 students) and college counselor (one person for @ 2200 kids) seem nice enough but can’t provide a lot of assistance.

    Historically, there is a smallish group of kids from this school who attend elite schools, some who attend UCs like Santa Cruz or Merced, and plenty who go to CSUs. That said, most of the kids who go on to higher education start at our local community college (which is open admission). We hired a private college admissions counselor, which is not uncommon in these parts.

    In your experience, how much work/suffering/escalation does it take to get things like transcripts and letters of recommendation sent during the admissions process? Does it mostly happen? Or is it going to take up a bunch of our time?

    1. Not in California, but: your high school is likely hooked into an automatic software program like Naviance or Maia Learning. Your child lists the schools and perhaps makes requests for letters of recommendation in the system, which then shows up as a link in the teachers’ systems. The process for uploading transcripts to be sent to schools with the Common App + Naviance/Maia is pretty much “counselor presses button and docs submitted to all the schools listed.” I recommend the student meet with the counselor early in the year to get a copy of the current transcript if it’s not available to them in the system already to check the classes and grades are all correct. Students should check in person and email with the teacher writing the rec, or with the counselor, and confirm that they will do the letter and then later that the button has also been clicked. Check w the schools to see when those docs are due, and DOUBLE CHECK they have been submitted; the unis will assign your student a link to a portal so they can see. Some unis require the docs all be submitted at the same time as the application, others give you another 10 days or so for the transcript and letters to be uploaded.

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