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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Cross-Front Flutter-Sleeve Dress

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A woman wearing a bright orange dress with croc-print open-toed heals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This dress from Eloquii is going to be a lot of look if it falls into the wrong hands, but I think it would look absolutely gorgeous on the right person. I would be thrilled to see it on someone with a warm-toned, deep complexion. (Hello, Deep Autumns!)

If you want to make it a bit more formal, I would add a charcoal gray or navy blue blazer, but I think this is something that probably looks best standing on its own. 

The dress is on sale for $56.69 (marked down from $62.99) and comes in sizes 14W-28W. 

Sales of note for 6/19:

288 Comments

  1. How much do location factors like weather and landscape play into your satisfaction with where you live? Did it influence your decision on where to live? Did anyone choose a beautiful location over everything else and regret it?

    I live in a city with great food, arts, and culture, but it arguably has a real lack of natural beauty. Spent a long weekend in a beautiful, bucolic part of the country and I’m amazed at how restorative it felt. Of course now I’m seeing my city’s flaws in a more enhanced way.

    1. I moved from the west coast to the east coast after college to get away from the smog and to live somewhere with real winter. After we married, my husband and I moved to Virginia partly because he was tired of the cold and snow. I despise the climate and scenery here–hot and muggy in the summer, mosquitoes everywhere for half of the year, winter is chilly and bleak with not enough snow for winter sports, no real mountains. But we aren’t leaving because of COL and other lifestyle reasons.

      1. I read a great thread yesterday about how Faulkner etc would not exist in a climate of winter and reasonable humidity levels. People aren’t crazy like they are in humidity, pre-A/C at least.

        3. I mean, you also can’t have southern gothic anything without the ghosts of the confederacy, its original sins, and the generations of people living in relative poverty amongst the ruins of antebellum prosperity. But I’m sure the humidity doesn’t help. Maybe there is something akin to languishing in a climate that deprives you of the crisp barrenness of winter and the subsequent rebirth? A yearning for revival, if you will.

          2. I thought that first season of True Detective really did a good job with an atmosphere of southern gothic unromanticized.

          3. I’m not romanticizing it. But that’s generally the context of the literature. Yes, rot. But rot in a particular historical context, not just climate.

    2. Yes but this has changed over time. When I was in my late 20s, early 30s, I valued walkability, accessibility to jobs, restaurants, etc over access to nature. Now in my early 40s we moved because I wanted more green space for both me and my kids. I LOVE our location and the natural beauty and don’t regret it for a second but of course the trade off is a longer commute.

    3. It’s a big factor for me. I couldn’t live somewhere that gets super muggy and hot and/or is also notably ugly. I live in the Bay Area and would live in Idaho if not for the politics and poor job scene. From the Bay Area, we can do day and weekend trips to Tahoe, Yosemite, Lassen, Carmel, and literally dozen of other famously beautiful places.

    4. After 42 years in New England, planning on moving with my family to St. Petersburg, Florida. I’ve realized that about 90% of my moods is weather and can’t deal with only being happy from May-October. St. Pete is somewhat of a progressive/queer-friendly bubble in Florida and I’m excited to only see snow on my own terms from now on.

        1. It’s crazy but my happy place is hot and humid. We’re planning on coming back to New England for June and July.

        2. different perspective: I lived in Florida for a year and absolutely loved summer in Florida. I love the humid heat all day long, I love the warm water outside, I loved the crazy storms that lasted for an hour and were gone. It definitely isn’t for everyone but some of us are crazy like that.

        3. People are different. I hate the heat and max out around 78 before I am acutely uncomfortable. I shovel snow in shorts, so long as it isn’t below 20.

        4. yeah I’m over here in the Midwest figuring out how I can move to northern New England to escape the heat and humidity, and our heat and humidity is mild compared to the southeast. I wouldn’t move to Florida if you had a gun to my head (and not because of politics, although I don’t like their politics either!)

    5. I look at a screen all week. What can I get to in 2-3 hours on a weekend or up to 8 on a long weekend?

    6. My brother has a ton of sinus issues, my kid has severe grass allergies – I feel like moving could solve a lot of these problems. I think my kid is destined for a city when he’s older.

      We live around a lot of national beauty (national park very close) and it’s meh to me although I enjoy driving past it on the way home from the store. We moved for family. I miss the city.

      1. There’s certainly no guarantee that living next to something famously beautiful means that you will benefit from it. I had family who lived in an amazing ski town who spent every single powder day watching TV!

        1. I live in Montana. Normal people are being priced out of most of the fun things to do. It sucks. I guess we’re all just there to serve the whims of rich tourists and landowners.

          1. That sounds like an attitude problem, tbh. Hiking is free or close to free. Snowplay is free. Camping is way less crowded there than in most states and is affordable. Fishing, cross-country skiing, and lots of other Montana-friendly activities are affordable.

          2. Hiking and snowplay are poor substitutes for skiing. Skiing has become incredibly overpriced and crowded.

          3. So has a lot of hiking. “Affordable” is very relative and as public land continued to be blocked off or traded away, the remaining spots are further away and even more crowded.

          4. 9:47, that is super dismissive. Like it or not, these factors have an impact on the people who actually live in these places.

          5. My closest skiing is Tahoe, so I understand overpriced and overcrowded, but I go anyway at less crowded times and look for deals. It’s worth it.

          6. Call it dismissive, but it’s simply not true that “most” of the “fun things to do” are inaccessible to ordinary people in a state like Montana.

          7. 10:22, I only value your opinion on this if you also live there on a budget. This feels like the equivalent of “anyone can eat healthily because lentils are cheap!”

          8. I don’t live in Montana, but I live on a budget in a VHCOL place. You can always, always find free things to do.

          9. The middle class kid here is confused that anyone ever thought skiing wasn’t for just rich people. That is like complaining that yachting and polo got too expensive! Talk about champagne problems. Wait until you hear what surgery costs when you inevitably suffer some horrific injury because you thought zooming down an actual mountain in thousands of dollars of fancy gear was a normal person activity! I’m happy to leave that one to the rich to be fair.

          10. Spoken like someone who’s never experienced the joys of skiing! I’ll take the cost and the risk of a broken bone over the slow death of couch time any day of the week. It is sad that it’s gotten as expensive as it is now, although there are still plenty of ways to make it affordable – just not at Vail.

          11. Skiing didn’t used to be a rich person thing if you lived in the right place. When I was just out of college making nothing, I bought a pair of skis for a couple hundred dollars, a pair of ski pants for $50, and a restricted season pass for $199 and skied weekend evenings and on the vacation days that I couldn’t use for an actual vacation because I couldn’t afford to travel. It was awesome.

          12. Person specific. Skiing is a nightmare. I don’t need to risk life and limb for an adrenaline rush. My nervous system does just fine with regular life activities.

          13. Ah yes, always fun to put down an activity someone else says they love that you’ve never even tried. Keep on keeping on with that life attitude.

          14. I did say it was person specific. Not every activity is for every person—it doesn’t mean that anyone’s life is less-than because they don’t have the funds to prioritize it. Some of the assumptions about what people can (or should want to!) risk financially are astounding.

          15. 12:16, the original poster of this subthread wants to go skiing herself, not to force you to go skiing. Skiing is a sport that should be reasonably accessible to the middle class. It used to be.

          16. I can get a local ski pass to our local ski hill for $250. I try to go 2-3x a week.

          17. That’s the disagreement. It’s an insanely dangerous rich person sport. No one should be doing it. It’s no great loss to anyone if only rich people do it.

          18. Anon at 1:31, get a grip. Your perception of skiing as “insanely dangerous” simply does not align with actual statistics. And while some skiing is crazy expensive and it’s getting more expensive, there are absolutely affordable local mountains.

            Why do you even care? Why sit here and say “no one should be doing it”? Just WTF. Live your own life and leave other people alone. I don’t even like skiing that much jfc. There is no legitimate “disagreement” here, you are wrong, and you really have no business saying it’s no great loss if normal people don’t get to take part in an activity that they love.

          19. Eh, we don’t need to worry about her. She can sit at home and say we’re all stupid and doing dangerous things and then wonder what she did with her one wild and precious life 30 years from now. I can’t imagine not taking risks, being in nature, feeling the cold wind on my face at 45 mph, getting better as I age, and having that much fun with my family and friends. Worth every penny.

          20. I’m sure her “wild and precious life” (vom) is just fine without risking her bone structure needlessly.

      2. My seasonal allergies got better as an adult, though I do think moving to a city in a drier climate (LA v. East Coast) also helped. I still get rashes or start sneezing if I come into direct contact with grass. I don’t know where I will retire but I’m hoping for a dry-ish climate.

        1. My dream is to retire somewhere with no mosquitoes and no pollen. Where I grew up in SoCal has neither of these things, but it has smog instead.

          1. FWIW, the smog has greatly improved over the last 30 years. The high CA gas prices are caused (at least in part) by a special additive that reduces smog. Sometimes I daydream about moving out to the desert-y part of LA County and being the elderly witch hermit I’ve always dreamed of being.

    7. I’ve moved a lot and lived in multiple places people vacation in, as well as ugly cities and cities with a lot of easily accessible natural beauty. The only place that I moved solely for a job despite misgivings about the weather and the landscape was the one place I couldn’t stand and ended up leaving after a few years. Life is so much better when you live somewhere with natural beauty and at least tolerable weather, whatever that means for you (I currently live somewhere frigid for a good portion of the year, but that’s vastly preferable to heat and humidity for me).

    8. I grew up on the east coast and lived in various cities on the east coast until age 30. Now i live in TX bc of DH’s job. I detest the weather 6 months of the year, but I like our life here (minus the politics), maybe bc we have 2 kids, but our life here is just so much easier than it would be any of the other places we could realistically live due to work. We commute 15-20 min to work, all of our kids extra curriculars, errands, etc is all like 5-10 minutes away and we are in a big city so still have access to good restaurants, museums (though I’m a self proclaimed snob who spent too much time living in nyc and dc to really be impressed by museums elsewhere), we are 25 min from the closest airport. But a terrible place to live for good day trips and it’s ugly. Places that are good to live are not necessarily great to visit and visa versa.

    9. Northern Virginia here—I have only ever moved places for work. I can’t afford to live in a place for beauty and culture.

      1. This. Would love to live in many lovely places and the math only works if I marry well or get a Dickens-type benefactor.

      2. As someone who has lived the river rat lifestyle, virtually anyone can afford to do it if they don’t have complex medical needs or family to support, it just requires a major lifestyle change. (I spent 2 summers living out of a tent and showering once a week.) And I totally get that not everyone loves an environment enough to work for peanuts guiding tours in the area, but you ought to acknowledge that your career and lifestyle comfort preferences are what’s preventing you from living in a place for beauty/culture. I made the same trade off eventually, but I know 60 year old river guides who have been doing it their whole life and will likely do it until they die.

        1. +1. Every choice involves tradeoffs. A lot of things that people here will say are “musts” or “can’ts” are actually just choices.

          1. Yes, every choice involves tradeoffs, but it’s sad that the only ways to live near nature are “become an impoverished river rat” and “become a robber baron so you can afford a home in Tahoe.” The tradeoffs shouldn’t be so extreme.

          2. But that’s a false dichotomy. You absolutely do not have to be destitute OR a robber baron to enjoy nature. Why would you even think that?

          3. 12:11 is saying that people need to be willing to become river rats if they want to live in nature.

          4. The choices aren’t actually that stark though! I live in Denver, which is relatively expensive but not SF expensive, has pretty good weather year round and close to a lot of natural beauty. Some of the tradeoffs I make: I *don’t* live in the mountains, in Boulder, or other convenient-but-more-expensive towns. Winters I ski, I carpool to places with free parking and bring PBJs, or I drive up Saturday morning, sleep in my car, and ski Sunday too. I’m not buying day tickets. I live with roommates. I drive an older, small and fuel efficient 2wd car – that means there are some trailheads I can’t get to, but there are plenty I can, without paying SUV gas costs. I buy an annual state parks pass for $35/year and a national parks pass for $80/year and I don’t otherwise go to places with fees. I camp in the backcountry or on BLM/NF land, not fee sites. I am probably camping every other weekend in the summer, and maybe once a month in winter; and I aim for at least one night a week outside adventure (a 2 hr hike on the way home from work, or evening paddle boarding). My income is about 50th percentile for the metro area.

            I’m frugal on other stuff folks on this board spend $$$$ on, and I’m not saying the outdoors are accessible to people living in dire poverty, but there’s absolutely options between full-dirtbag-mode and never-see-a-sunset.

        3. Sure, but your line of work requires a river, the same way mine requires access to the relationships I’ve built.

    10. I live in a pretty part of the Bay Area with fantastic weather and have absolutely gorgeous nature within an hour’s drive. I really appreciate all that, but community factors like walkability, nice neighbors, institutions like the farmers’ market, and excellent libraries, are all more important to my day-to-day happiness.

      There are some less-developed areas within a few hours’ drive that are even prettier, but I wouldn’t want to move there. I like being close to whatever healthcare my family or I might need, having quick access to a range of retail (at competitive prices!), especially grocery stores, lots of educational and extracurricular opportunities for my kids, and a bigger community so that I can find people whose company I enjoy.

      In California, the fire risk is also higher in the less-developed areas I have in mind. I wouldn’t want to add to the difficulty in fighting fires by building a house/adding to housing demand in the wildland-urban interface without any real need to be there. I also have no desire to try to source and pay for insurance in higher fire risk areas.

      1. We had a hell of a time getting fire insurance recently. The property is in a developed suburb near open space right on the border between high and moderate risk official zones. To us, the most important factors were layout-related for our own safety (multiple escape routes, wide streets) but there is certainly increased overall risk of a fire touching the property.

    11. I live in Austin and find parts of it beautiful–for example, we live in the hills, and it’s situated on water–but I tend to forget about that in my day to day when all I’m doing is commuting over the bridge. I do not generally find central Texas landscape pretty – I think it’s rocky, brown, and has too many cedar trees. I appreciate our weather. I don’t actively want to live somewhere significantly colder, although I would if life took us there. I was a young law student when I found myself in Austin, so I was not thinking about life long-term when I chose to move here, but I do think I stay because I am, overall, content. As an adult with kids and a big job, at this point, I prioritize commute living as close to downtown as I can afford while still being in a pretty area with good schools. I would never in a million years buy a house outside town to have more natural beauty if it meant I was spending an hour+ driving when I could be with my family.

    12. I left NJ for ME because I am happier living in northern New England (I’ve lived in VT, NH, and ME over the years). The scenery has a lot to do with that, but I also hate heat and humidity, so I’m much happier when I can be outside all year. I lived in the southern midwest for 8 years and could only handle being outside from Nov-May. It really did a number on my mental health.

    13. The thing that’s most important to me is not needing a car. My city is ugly(ish), but I feel like I reap daily benefits from living in a “15-minute city.” I can’t afford pretty, good climate, and walkable so I picked which one mattered the most. If I want pretty I go on vacation, but talking to locals in various pretty places has also made me realize it’s not always all it’s cracked up to be.

      1. I live in Center City Philly and I only use my car to leave the city for nature: I love that I can live in a super walkable, fun city and then be on a trail, ski slope, beach, river, etc. in somewhere between 15 mins and 2 hours!

    14. I have always lived near the Great Lakes. Whenever we return from a vacation elsewhere, I am struck by how much natural beauty surrounds us in our home state. It is easily accessible. We have cities large enough to fulfill our needs nearby. We have four true seasons. We do not get hurricanes and are not in earthquake territory. Our geography means tornadoes tend to stay smaller. Blizzards are real but we are well equipped to ride them out. COL is manageable and our jobs are secure.

      Travel is great and it is very satisfying to come home to a place that has so much going for it.

      1. I live where people don’t think there is natural beauty but we all just stare at screens in gray offices in soul-less office parks. I took a walk on the greenway and just the nature available to me is so delightful now that it doesn’t get dark at 4.

      2. Another Great Lakes person here, and I agree! I get to live in a medium sized city, in a walkable neighborhood with surprisingly good restaurants and arts nearby, less than a half mile from a beautiful shoreline. Also a 1-2 hour drive from forests with hiking and inland lakes. I love to travel to bigger cities and different nature, but I feel very lucky to live where I do.

      3. Absolutely agree, and I’m one of the people who has also lived in coastal CA and beautiful small towns in New England. The Midwest does lack mountains and oceans, but there’s water everywhere, and I can live in a major city with decent COL and still have access to nature within minutes, which is a pretty reasonable balance.

        1. The Porkies are in the Midwest! Beautiful mountains, even if they don’t have the fame that other ranges enjoy.

      4. +1 all of this. I’m in central Wisconsin and love it here a lot. It’s rural but also still really easy to get to bigger cities if desired, and we have so many small towns filled with coffeeshops and shops and little businesses. And all of the forests and lakes/creeks makes my soul feel so grounded and peaceful.

        we did move when we were younger and lived in two southern states, but I’ll take the winters. My husband has gotten better about not actively hating them and instead plans outdoor things + lots of trips in the winter.

        Politically – for those who say “that’s great but also you live in a red area and I could never”, I say – my vote and my community influence counts a whole heck of a lot more here than if I lived in a safe blue state. :)

      6. Another Midwest lover here. I moved to Indianapolis over 10 years ago and am still constantly walking around appreciating how beautiful it is here. Probably very weird to everyone else, but it makes my life so much better.

        1. Hi fellow Indy person! I don’t think Indy is beautiful in the nature sense but I do think it’s a great city with an underrated food scene and amazing people. I love living here (except for summer, which is too hot for me).

    15. Not much? I used to live in the Bay Area which is one of the most objectively beautiful parts of the country but the culture there is so workaholic it felt like we had no time or energy to enjoy it. Now I live in an objectively blah part of the Midwest but have lots of time and money to travel and see beautiful places and am much happier. I do hope to retire to New England eventually for both the weather (I hate hot weather) and natural beauty, but also other factors like cost of living and politics.

      1. I love to visit NYC because I get to enjoy what makes it great. When I was there, I was too poor or too busy to do any of that.

        1. Yeah although the question was about nature, I feel like it applies to VHCOL cities too. I might like to live in Chicago if my husband’s job didn’t keep us in a smaller Midwest city. But I have less than zero desire to live in NYC or other expensive coastal cities. Happy to visit for museums, theatre and fine dining and then go home to my fully paid off house in a LCOL area.

          1. When I visit NYC, I take the ferry, which was too expensive for prior me. Just being above ground and on the water feels like such luxury. The parks are stunning. There are beaches and marshes and all of the great things you find in brackish water. I would love to do the 5-borough bike ride some time.

          2. It helps so much to embrace water. Most states have rivers and a lot have great whitewater rafting day trips that families can enjoy with no prior experience. There is nothing so satisfying as a great accessible adventure.

        2. Every time I visit NYC, I have a lovely time but I also think, “I would live here if and only if I could live in a very very expensive and large apartment.”

    16. It plays a huge role for me, but also I am often surprised by other people’s opinions about which cities lack natural beauty (I don’t feel this way about any port city, for example; the ocean is right there!). I currently live in a city without a mountain, lake (besides the reservoir), or a coastline, but there are trees everywhere, and the parks system is fabulous. People travel to see some of the gardens and arboretums here. But I’m told it’s considered a city that lacks natural beauty by people who mostly mean vistas, and for sure it is not the same as living in the mountains or on a lake (both of which I’ve done before).

      I will say I also actively enjoy the aesthetic of train tracks, telephone poles and lines, industry, warehouses, public transit, etc. and miss all this in the suburbs or the country.

    17. i don’t know where you live of course but most cities have some natural beauty not too far out? like i’m in NYC, you can get plenty of hiking/ biking within an hour? Could you be more intentional about just getting out there? i know it’s easier said than done….

      2. To me upstate NY is not natural beauty, just a pile of dilapidated buildings choked with overgrown vegetation. I am a westerner, though, and like wide open spaces and big craggy mountains.

        1. To me the water upstate provides the open spaces. I think of paddling around the water lilies in water so clear I can see to the ground, with a wide open sky above. I do get that wooded mountains are not the same.

          1. I currently live in humid wooded mountains and HATE it, but my husband loves it. I grew up on the ocean and miss it daily.

        2. Weird take. “Upstate New York” is a huge area. Yes, there are areas like what you describe, but there also are areas like the Adirondacks, which is absolutely beautiful and home to some of the cleanest lakes in the country.

          1. The Adirondacks are the same. Have you seen the Sierra Nevada? Those are mountains.

          2. Okay, well not everyone can live near the Sierra Nevadas. I live in Philly and go to the Poconos. I know they’re no great shakes compared to other mountains but they’re ours and we love them. I also LOVE living in Philly – talk about a city with a sense of identity and its own culture! It’s affordable, walkable, and this is where my loved ones are.

        3. I’m not an upstate person but have you sat in a hillside vineyard while the sun sparkles on the finger lakes? It’s pretty special.

        4. Native upstate NY-er who loves the beautiful parts of upstate- definitely dilapidated buildings exist (don’t they everywhere?) but the Adirondacks, Finger Lakes, and Capital Region have some stunning landscapes.

      3. When I lived in NY I found getting to the camping/hiking/biking not easy at all. It took forever with traffic and bridges. I moved somewhere I can easily get to all that after work or an easy 1-2 hour drive on the weekends.

      4. Yes, most cities have decent nature a few hours away. Even if you prioritize going every weekend, as I do, it doesn’t come close to actually having it in your backyard

    18. We split our time between San Francisco and Sonoma, two gorgeous places IMHO and we do it precisely because it’s a gorgeous place to live. I feel like I’m on vacation every day.

      1. This is the perfect combo here. I’m in SF and love it, but the fog and cold is getting to me (my house is old and so cold most of the year, I’m wearing fleece top to toe). Having the benefit of all that SF offers, and being able to escape the fog to Sonoma sounds perfect. (Hmmm…maybe I should go check Zillow for a little Sonoma cottage. In my dreams.)

          1. Happy Memories. My much-missed California-bred husband and I (European) had a wonderful vacation in the Russian River/Mendocina area.

      2. I split my time between SF (with 5 roommates) and Tahoe (with 2 roommates) and yeah–the tradeoff is I have to have roommates to afford to rent both places (but I am also saving a lot to be able to buy a condo in Tahoe in a few years).

        I work full remote and literally live a perfect life, except for my stupid slovenly inconsiderate roommates. Tradeoffs.

    19. I live in Houston and by fall I joke that I have seasonal depression because I’m so sick of the endless, brutal summer. I hate the weather here and often lament on weekends that there’s nothing to do because of the weather or there’s nothing of interest in driving distance. However, I stay because life is easy here – it’s affordable, we have great restaurants, easy to fly out of, I’ve got a great group of friends, etc. I spent a handful of years in So Cal and then a couple of years in the Bay Area and while it was spectacularly beautiful, my life was harder due to traffic, the inconvenience of running errands, hard to meet people to do things with, etc. My compromise is that I try to take a lot of trips, especially in summer and fall. Last summer we did the Pacific Northwest and New England/Canada and then every fall I insist upon a trip somewhere to see leaves changing (New England, NC, Blue Ridge Mountains). I’d probably spend more time outside if I lived somewhere else, but it doesn’t mean my life would be better or that I’d be overall more happy.

      1. I agree that having a great group of friends and all those conveniences are huge – but I don’t think I could ever live in Houston! That weather and lack of outdoor recreation that isn’t polluted is the opposite of what I need.

      2. Another Houstonian here and this is my sentiments exactly. I don’t really like Houston, but our day to day life is so easy

    20. We live in a burb. Blah place. But the more gorgeous places nearby are either getting uninsurable due to wildlife risk or won’t have enough water in a drought. So we do a lot of lot of local travel instead.

    21. I live in Philly and I love our wonderful park system and how close we are to the beach and mountains. In the nice weather, I am outdoors all the time. I row out of a boathouse on the Schuylkill, I trail run in the Wissahickon, I bike on MLK/Kelly, and I spend most weekends down the shore.

      However, I hate, hate, hate the cold. I hate dark winters. I hate pretty much everything outdoors from November – April. I think I’d really thrive in San Diego’s climate. I don’t think I’d miss 4 seasons for a second. Of course, I think I’d miss the cost of living lol!

      Really, whats keeping me here is the fact that all my people are here. I’d rather deal with winter than move away from family and friends so here I am.

    22. I live in a compromise location. I have lived in a few places that people visit for their natural beauty and… the jobs were long commutes that paid poorly, the housing was incredibly expensive for what you got, you had weird situations like ‘oh, the grocery truck didn’t show up with produce today so we have no lettuce or bananas’, I put 50k miles on a car in a single year, and the schools were sub par.

      Instead, I live close to outdoor recreation and the beautiful places in a cute suburb of a midsized city. It works. I would love to move someplace sunnier but – compromises – husband is a big skier and we have good jobs here.

    23. I didn’t choose to live in my city because of nature, but I do have pretty good access to it (about a 90 minute drive to the mountains but less for just a hiking trail). I grew up near the beach, but wouldn’t choose to live there even though it is beautiful. That’s mostly because it doesn’t have the access to concerts, museums, plays, etc that I want to have in my current city. By contrast though, I would probably be ideally suited for NYC except for the fact that I would want enough disposable income to do all of the fun things that make my quality of life higher now.

    24. Natural beauty matters less to me than culture. I don’t mean like museums and ballets, but does this area have a sense of place?

      I recently went to Scottsdale with some friends and family. The mountains are objectively beautiful. But that place was totally unmooring. It has no sense of, well anything really. Everyone we met was a transplant and I get zero sense of what the city was. Maybe I did it wrong but I’ve never felt so unsettled.

      Every good country song lied to me about Texas. Brown everything and sad shrubs trying to be trees? This is just not beautiful to me.

      Also, I kind of laugh when everyone moves to Florida because they can’t stand the winters and then shows you pictures of their pool. Inside a cage. A caged pool, how lovely. You moved for the weather but must be in a cage whilst swimming.

      I live a half block from a tiny nineteenth century village on a harbor. The harbor is frozen in the winter but still beautiful. Things slow down; there’s a cadence to the year. The hills are no joke, the taxes are high and of course it would be much cheaper to live in a place with snakes and humungous bugs. But I think I’d be kidding myself.

      1. Have you been to NYC? I feel like “everyone there is from somewhere else” is fine some places, if not a benefit, and in other places, it’s said with no love.

        1. I grew up in a navy town. Very used to people being from everywhere else. Now I live in a place where some old families have a lock on everything, and it’s jarring because where I grew up didn’t have this dynamic.

        2. I lived in Brooklyn for a decade. But New York has a vibe, part of that vibe is that it’s a city of immigrants and people from other places though they all seem to act like New Yorkers. I think the infrastructure dictates that. Scottsdale was just an empty nothingness.

    25. I live in a non-trendy neighborhood of outer borough NYC and I find that there is a surprising amount of natural beauty here. I live right off the water and there is a huge waterfront park right across from me where I walk my dog every day. The sunsets over the water are stunning, especially in the winter. There are marshland nature areas and more parks nearby, none of which are crowded because they aren’t popular with visitors or on social media. I’m not a sand person but we walk on the boardwalk and enjoy the beach regularly.

      It’s not Nature and not bucolic but I do find it beautiful and love that it’s part of my daily life.

      People who have only visited NYC or lived here in their 20s don’t generally venture out where I live and have no idea any of it is there. I’m ok with that because it keeps it relatively affordable and less crowded.

        1. You can have water that faces west. For example, a lot of South Jersey beaches are barrier islands. If you have a house on the bay, as my in laws do, you can sit on the deck and have an absolutely stunning sunset over the water!

        3. Is this a serious question!? You’re not blocked from seeing the sunset because you’re in the eastern part of the US. Any west-facing view will have a sunset, so if you’re near a lake or ocean facing west you’ll see the sun set over the water.

    26. I moved from NYC because I could no longer tolerate the cold and lack of green spaces. I’m from the South originally and moved back there. My hobbies are horseback riding and gardening, which are obviously a bit of a challenge in NY. I also just can’t stand the cold. Though I realize most people find Southern summers miserable, I’d rather deal with 90 degrees with 90% humidity for 3 months than it still being cold in April. I don’t live in a particularly beautiful location, but it does have a lot of green space. (My ideal location for weather would be Southern California, but the COL, wildfire risk, and distance from family have deterred me from ever trying to move there. Nice to visit, though)

      1. I am in NC and my children refuse to look at colleges north of DC because they truly hate the winter. They understand that graduate schools are a strictly transactional relationship and would go north for that, but want to love college and weather seems to be a big part of it for them. You have to know yourself.

        1. Hah, I’m originally from the deep, deep South and NC was “north” for me when I moved there for college; I remember thinking it was soooo cold the first winter (it was like, in the 40s). Then I moved to NY for grad school and realized I didn’t know what cold was.

          1. I went from the Great Lakes to the mountains of New England for school and thought I could handle winter there no problem. It was a whole different winter from what I was used to! I burned out on it.

    27. I absolutely 100% must live somewhere where I can be in the mountains within 1-2 hours. Now that I have little kids, I gotta live somewhere that’s walking distance to a couple decent parks or other child-friendly nature.

      I spent a couple summers guiding river trips in Moab, and it was a wonderful experience and don’t regret it at all. However, I also don’t regret that I stopped doing that so I could get a real job and afford an actual place to live (not a tent) and get a spouse and kids. No way I could manage that if I was committed to living in some of my absolute favorite natural landscapes forever. The folks who do are admirable but also a little one-dimensional. I’ll just live close enough that I can visit, which is still limiting but not nearly to the same extent.

      1. I also love rivers/rafting and so far I’m enjoying living in the Bay Area. It took two hours or so to get to the American River for a great day rafting trip last year – well worth it.

    28. I did a complete career pivot to move to a place with tremendous natural beauty and a safe “small town” vibe community for my family. No regrets – we’re never leaving!

    29. I live in DC and love lots of things about it, but especially that even though I get to live the urban life (no car, apartment, walkable), its very green within the city and can get to some beautiful areas with 1-2 hours of driving in VA or MD. A bit further afield is Shenandoah Natl Park and WV.

    30. My mom (a nurse married to a mailman) encouraged me to go into teaching or nursing because those are jobs that can be done anywhere and are often in high demand.

      Obviously, yes, those salaries are gonna be tough to afford a nice life in Jackson Hole on. But, let’s not act like everywhere lovely is shut out to folks unless they’re ultra wealthy or willing to live like a ski bum.

      1. Yup, if you’re Big Law or bust then sure it’s gonna be harder to live closer to nature. If you’re happy with a more modest but still great career like nursing/teaching/government (and many other things!) you’re more likely to be able to find the happy medium of living in nature while still having a career you love.

    31. So much of this depends on actually getting out and doing the cool outdoors things, even if its mildly inconvenient.

      I live 1-1.5 hours (depending on traffic) from both a ski hill and the beach (opposite directions), I go skiing one weeknight a week and many weekends in the winter. I try to get to the beach weekly (on weekends or an occasional mid-week mental health day/half day) as well. I’m ~30 mins from nice single track trails so that’s where I usually run. The in my city has public docks so I bought an inflatable paddle board and use it regularly. I know a lot of people who think its too inconvenient to do this stuff after work and so they “save” it for weekends but get out much, much less than I do.

      I’m sure plenty here would say the beaches, mountains, trails, and rivers near me aren’t great (and, compared to elsewhere in the country they’re not). I frankly don’t care – I get to go skiing, to the beach, trail running, and paddleboarding weekly… and that makes me very, very happy.

      1. Yup! I know people think I’m crazy to flex my schedule to leave early once a week to drive an hour to go hike, ski, hit a beach, etc. but I’d personally SO MUCH rather spend 2 hours driving to/from an activity I love doing than spend 2 hours sitting on my couch after work!

    1. The ties are integral to the style of this dress–it would look off with a different belt, partly because the wrap element would be missing and partly because the belt would need to be worn so far above the natural waist.

    2. i think this particular belt is attached to the dress but generally yes i think a real belt looks more expensive than the tie the dress comes from.

    4. I think a belty belt looks more expensive, but I also think self belts (especially if they’re wider) look better on me personally (they maintain one long visual line but add shape, where belty belts chop me up)

    5. I have one dress that has an attached self belt and it is a royal pain to keep it looking tidy since it pulls oddly and likes to roll into a scrunched up rope instead of the wide obi-style tie like in the photo here. Separate leather belts are much less fuss for me.

    7. It really depends on the drape and style of the dress. Agree with others that real belts upscale the outfit, but some dresses (like this one) work better with their ties.

    8. I remove removable self belts and use a belty belt.
      If the self belt is attached and part of the item’s construction, I do not use a belty belt.
      If a removable self belt is surprisingly okay, I will remove it and apply it to my actual, high waist.

      The term belty belt is one of my corporette all time favourites. You win!

  3. I clicked on a bad link from an email on my phone. I closed the browser window quickly and didn’t enter any information. It did seem to log me out of all my various accounts used in the browser (newspapers, shopping sites, etc.).

    I’ve deleted the browser history, cleared the cache, looked for any unusual apps, connected devices, etc. My iOS is up to date. I’ve done all the things the internet recommends but I still feel paranoid.

    How do I know I don’t have vulnerabilities? Is it safe to log back into sites on my phone via browser? Has this happened to anyone and what steps should I take? Is a malware service useful?

    1. This happened to me once with a fake American Express email. I don’t know, but I didn’t log into anything on my phone for a few weeks and just used my laptop for mail. I don’t keep many apps on my phone so most of my stuff is web-browser based.

  4. Kat, there is a Choice Hotels auto-play add with audio overriding my mute setting.

  5. I feel like this is a torts law issue spotting exercise, but my neighbors big teen sons have a moving company (but it’s just those two and a friend, no company). They are too young to rent a truck, so IDK which parent owns or leases it. I would bet that no one that’s thought through workmen’s comp insurance or self-employment taxes or anything. It will probably be fine. But OMG as a person who got a lot of extra insurance and did everything on the books when we had a very PT driving nanny, I feel like this could go very wrong. Like fall on stairs or crash on the interstate wrong, wrong with two commas wrong.

    1. yup. people keep posting on my local moms and dads group offering their high school students up to drive kids this summer. I want to call them and tell them this is not a good idea… have they updated their insurance policy?

      1. I have the hugest umbrella policy I could get. I have a teen driver who next year will just drive herself (no car full of teens) after driving with me for a year. So much can go wrong. Often not the teen’s fault (people who give e-motorcycles to middle schoolers: looking at you), but there can be a long tail even still.

        OTOH a family member was killed by a judgement proof guy with a borrowed car by someone with the state minimum $50K. Had he not died at the scene, that would have barely scratched the surface of the likely medical bills and other losses.

        1. getting paid to use your car is a whole different policy than your own use. similarly if your kid gives swim lessons in your pool that’s not the same as having friends over if something happens.

          1. I worry about this with AirBNBs that are lakehouses or where there are crazy roads and lots of trees. Too many stairs with issues, trees that look like they could fall at any moment, and boathouse roofs and decks with spongy rotting wood. Like I can sue Marriott and I’m pretty sure that they don’t have hidden cameras in the bedrooms.

    2. Not your circus, and I think it’s nice to see kids working and being entrepreneurial. Also, how do you know any of this? I don’t share my insurance situation with neighbors.

      1. I have a neighbor who is very Daisy Buchanan. Cute but breaks things and doesn’t care (IDK how many 3-series BMWs her kids have gone though over the years, but our kids don’t ride with them). Some parents want to let their kids be entrepreneurs for their college applications but in the most superficial way. Adults barely think of things like same-profession disability coverage so I doubt teens do.

        1. I wouldn’t hire a teen to drive my own elementary schooler around (I pay more for an adult!), but at least in my area, Buchanan-ish rich people are very much not the same ones whose kids are doing physical jobs for cash. Those tend to come from more blue collar families.

          1. In my area, the responsible wealthy people often have kids who babysit or do physical jobs over the summer; it teaches responsibility and they don’t want the kids resting in their laurels. The Daisy Buchanans are… not like that. (There are also responsible wealthy people whose kids spend the summer at fancy camps, so that’s also a thing.)

      2. Right. They probably own the truck and updated their insurance policy with their carrier.

      3. Agree. Mind your business. But I consider it more of a problem that all these barriers exist at all. Stuff happens and we all have to pay for the mistakes of others at some point or other. Insisting that every eventuality be mitigated keeps people from doing anything at all.

    4. The vast majority of moving companies even the big ones are not properly insured. I learned this when I had someone move a priceless and very heavy piece of furniture. Of the 6 companies in reached out to only 1 was properly insured

      1. I know someone hit by an unlicensed kid in a stolen car, so ever since then I feel like I pay attention to the whole issue of underinsurance. You never think of it until it is too late.

      2. Or the story of the people whose Uhaul got stolen. They assumed the contents would be insured, but nope…all their worldly belongings just gone.

    5. That does strike me as very risky, but I wouldn’t waste time worrying about it unless your own teen son wants to join up. The teen sons of my parents’ neighbors threw alcohol-fueled parties on their deck for money, which worked great until the deck separated from the house due to the number of people standing on said deck.

  6. I’m starting to put wheels in motion to redo the kids’ bathroom. It’s a pretty basic rectangular bathroom. Vanity is closest to the door on the left, with the toilet just beyond it. Across from vanity/toilet ont he opposite wall is the tub/shower. Far wall, opposite the door, is a decent sized window. While we will be updating cosmetics (tile, paint, fixtures) throughout, the primary reason for doing this is to replace the existing pedestal sink with a proper vanity with storage.

    I usually have a pretty good eye for design but I’m struggling with what will look both current and timeless in terms of design elements. I’ll do a new white toilet and tub, and I’ve decided on smaller hexagon white tiles for the floor (maybe 2” tiles.. idk). But wall tile color and shape in the shower/tub and the vanity countertop/color and hardware has me in analysis paralysis. Where do you get inspiration for this? Pinterest is cesspool of AI generated images, even when I seemingly filter those out. Does anyone have strong opinions?

    We have black door knobs throughout the house, including on this bathroom door, in case that matters. The master bath is the only other updated bathroom (on a different floor) with brass fixtures, though I don’t think they have to necessarily coordinate across the bathrooms. Thoughts? Someone just pick for me? I’m not afraid of color but just don’t know where to start with this decision paralysis. Help

    1. Houzz. It’s like Pinterest for houses but with real photos. Use natural stone (not quartz) and avoid black hardware. I’m of the opinion that white subway tile is timeless in the sense that it’s always ugly and uninspired. Have some fun with the shower walls.

      1. Co-signing. And read Maria Killam’s website re colors and materials. Avoid regrettable choices in the things hardest to change (floors, cabinets). If you take risks, let it be with framed art or towels.

        1. Maria Killam has a very specific taste and viewpoint, but I did find her information on undertones to be VERY useful when we were picking finishes for our new house 14 years ago. In general, I think this is good advice. Go timeless on the expensive stuff and inject personality in other ways.

          1. She is so helpful in really driving home the point that some mistakes will be expensive and hard to fix and everything else you can play with. And has some great before / afters. So even if something isn’t to your taste, you can begin to understand why some things really don’t work.

            Reading her blog got me over my fear of marble (hint: used honed vs polished). Everyone was pushing quarts hard. The first week, a kid put a hot cast iron pan on the countertop. That would have melted the quartz. I didn’t want to be afraid for our family to use our kitchen. I can live with a little patina but not a scorch mark.

            Highly recommend her post on knobs and pulls. The things you never think about until you are about to spend $$$ on house things.

    2. I would start paying close attention to other bathrooms you see, in hotels, restaurants, etc. I did a very similar reno recently, and my phone ended up filled with snapshots I took at places like that that happened to have bathrooms I liked. My tile combination was inspired by the one at a cafe I like, and it looks great in my house, too.

        1. Black hexagon tile floors, white subway tile walls around the tub, a rich walnut vanity with a white top, black fixtures, and BM revere pewter walls. I have a lot of color in my house and wanted the bathroom to be neutral as a contrast. FWIW, I was worried that the black floors and fixtures would get streaky but it hasn’t been a problem at all.

    3. I like instagram for interior designers posting their work.
      My bathroom formula is white penny tile floors and subway tile walls (both very reasonable so you can spend in other places), classic vanity (I like converting a real cabinet and using marble for the sink and countertops). With that as a neutral base, I do whatever fixtures I’m liking at the moment, they can easily be changed later except for the shower setup. And I do a fun wallpaper and window treatment.

      1. 20 years ago, I did my small bathroom with a penny tile floor and subway tile shower all in white, and I still like it. I can change the colors of my rugs or towels if I want something different.
        Even though it’s a kid’s bathroom, don’t make the vanity short. Make it adult height. Kids grow. They can use step stools when they’re little but bending over for the rest of your life after you’ve hit 5’0″ is annoying.

    4. You need to go in person to hardware, paint, and countertop suppliers and look at options/ask for samples if available. Then you can play with options yourself. Looking at images of options online won’t help because the colors don’t render realistically and may change based on the light in the room itself.

      We just built a house and did a white quartz countertop in the kid bathroom (cheap and indestructible) with chrome hardware (we did polished nickel everywhere else but chrome is cheaper) and a large format porcelain tile on the floor that’s patterned to look like natural stone (again cheap and hard to damage). On the tub walls we did a subway tile, which I think is timeless. We have a two-sink custom built-in vanity that was done by a cabinet maker in a pretty french blue. Then we did cream wallpaper with a leaf green pattern on the non-tiled walls.

      1. OTOH, one paint chip tells you nothing; ditto one tile piece. Get foamboard painted with samples (do not pant over your painted walls — you want to see a color painted on white) that are something like 24″x36″ and move them around your house. Think of grout colors.

        Also: what is expensive to change (plumbing location) and what is cheap to change (wall paint).

        1. Samplize makes large stick on paint samples, very very easy to test a lot of colors this way without damaging walls.

          1. Counterpoint: The Samplize samples ripped the paint off my walls. Good thing I was planning to paint anyway…

          2. That probably had to do with your paint being old, not the contact paper. If you’re worried, just tape it w masking tape.

    5. If you have already purchased them this will not be a helpful comment, but we used to have 2″ hexagon tiles on our bathroom floor and the light grey grout got SO DIRTY. I will never again do small tiles on a floor that gets a lot of traffic, the floor (especially around the toilet….ew!) looked so dirty all the time no matter how much we cleaned. I would recommend a larger tile with less grout lines, or if you really like the smaller tiles – do a darker grout.

      In terms of design choices – I think black fixtures are current and also somewhat timeless, especially if your door knobs are black. A subway tile laid in a stacked pattern as opposed to brick pattern is more current, and I think also timeless.

      1. ZEP grout cleaner works miracles! I have small floor tile in one bath and use it once per year.

      2. I feel that you have to commit to classic-historic or classic-contemporary. So no stacked tile if your room is otherwise very 1920s. You need a running bond or it will just look weird. But stacked is OK if the rest is all MCM or more contemporary. The elements must harmonize, even if each is classic for what it is.

      1. 1965. I’m in greater Boston. When we moved in it screamed early 1990s finishes. We’ve since updated the master suite and redid all the floors too walnut finish in the house which are 100% hardwood but for bathrooms. I like classic, not too trendy, but I’m not afraid of color… I’m just afraid of picking the “wrong” color or putting it in the wrong place! Most trendy thing we did, which I do not regret because I like it a lot, are replacing all hardware to black door knobs and hinges on all interior doors and closets. But we have mixed metals throughout otherwise.

        Sometimes I get in my head that since my house is kind of a weird quasi-split level, added on to over the years, it’ll never have a great aesthetic no matter what I finish it with. That’s a me issue, and untrue, but I just get such paralysis! I really need to hire someone by the hour I think to help. Is that a thing? I feel like this project as a standalone is small but it could lead to much more…. I’m just so busy with life, work, kids, I can’t spend a weekend browsing fixtures. Then paint. Then tile. Then vanities.

        In ~2 years when youngest kiddo gets to full-time school age we’re going to completely redo/reconfigure my first floor, kitchen/living room/dining, which will help overhaul the entire feel of the house. Until then we’re picking off smaller projects, like this bathroom.

    7. Part of making a space less likely to feel quickly dated is to coordinate it with the style and architecture of your house. I think new spaces feel the most jarring when they look like they were plopped in a house they don’t belong in.

      1. I have a post in mod I guess, but that’s kind of my hesitation to do anything but very middle of the road. It’s a 1960s build in greater Boston. “It’s not a farm house. It’s not a colonial. It’s not on the beach… so it can’t look like XX” is where my mind goes, which… is not wrong. But then I find myself sticking to very vanilla finishes. And that’s not what I want.

        One of my favorite choices in my house was to do a sea foam green glass subway tile in my master shower. It’s 5 years old and makes me so happy.

        1. That’s where you start, then! Your shower tile. What style paradigm does it fit into? Then expand.

        2. I did our two bathrooms with very similar finishes for the shower, floor, countertop, and vanity, but used different paint colors. I am happy with each bathroom. If you like what you did in the master bath, you might want to replicate much of it, but maybe change some aspect of the materials or wall color. It will be harmonious with the other bathroom and you’ll like it!

    8. I have strong opinions! You need to tell us about your house. When was it built? How big is it? What kind of neighborhood? What area of the country? You all can hate on modern farmhouse but it looked best when they did it in TEXAS. White one inch hex is so pretty in a little clap board cottage but doesn’t feel right in a mid century modern home.

      Virginia savage McAllister wrote a field guide to American houses that will help you figure this out even if you think your house has no specific character. It’ll help you to learn the language of your particular home and make all design decisions easier. Even what people here dismiss as tract homes have elements that reflect design elements. Leaning into this can answer most design questions by creating a cohesive design throughout the home.

      For example, my boring 1950s house has a shed dormer on one side. So it got window boxes overflowing with vinca and petunias and white clapboard and copper lanterns. The inside is light bright and completely casual. My mom’s boring 1950s home is a brick colonial. So it got stately polished nickel hardware and more formal polished wood case goods and patterned upholstery. The houses dictate a lot of this if you listen.

      1. I believe in this philosophy, but whenever I look up the traditional furnishings and stylings of a post-WWII starter home like mine, I still wince! I used to be familiar with McAllister’s field guide, but maybe I should revisit it now that I live here. Do you have any other suggestions for inspiration? My house has a giant fireplace, giant picture window, scalloped kitchen cabinetry, brass hardware, picture rail, and not a lot of character otherwise, either inside or out.

        2. Tell me a little more. What does this fireplace look like? How is the house laid out?

          I didn’t mean to suggest you create a time warp. What appeals to you? Do you want to lean into cottage cozy? You’ve got scalloped cabinets and brass and a fireplace plus a small footprint right? You can do that with lots of walnut wood tones and darker patterns. Maybe some mid century scaled furniture but made cozy with upholstery in jewel tones? I’m not talking about stuff that’s for the jetsons, but furniture with slimmer arms, ect. That bathroom could have dark green tile and soapstone (or lookalike) countertops over a walnut toned vanity.
          Or you can evoke a historical cottage that with neutral colors and antiques like Josh young does. That bathroom could have penny tile or herringbone and subway tile with darker grout and marble accents and aged brass fixtures.

          For my house I went Swedish modern cottage. So the bathrooms have large scale white thassos with chrome and painted or whitewashed wood. It’s definitely not for everyone but I think it marries my husband’s love of all things sleek with my love of light and bright.

          Hope this helps!

          1. Fireplace is oversized and pine on a pine paneled statement wall! I have a mid-sized (this was hard to find!) jewel tone minimalist corner sectional in that room with a ming coffee table. I think what appeals to me is a gallery wall opposite the picture window, and in my imagination, to strip the trim so that the only wood in the room isn’t the fireplace, but that could be regrettable, especially with the low ceilings. Maybe the right piece of furniture on the wall opposite the fireplace would balance it out better.

            The lot is wooded, and the exposure minimizes natural light, so I think before I start doing more with color, I need to optimize lighting. I do love being surrounded by lush green most of the year.

            It does help and makes me feel like I’m not on an actively bad path so far. Thank you!

          2. Yay! Keep going now that you have recognized your aesthetic. So glad this helped!

    9. I’m in the middle of this- one of the better pieces of advice I’ve gotten is start with the thing you have the fewest options for then work out to the ones you have the most choices for.

      So, pick the vanity first, then the vanity counter, then the tub, then the faucet and showerhead, then the decorative tile, then the floor tile.

      (that or hire a designer)

    10. One random thing I learned recently is that a lot of brass fixtures, which are having a “moment,” contain a certain percentage of lead. I dug around online and unfortunately did find stories from people whose kids tested high on their lead screenings and investigations from their health departments revealed brass knobs (used in playrooms or kids’ bathrooms) to be the source. That gave me pause – normally I would have assumed that something like a knob wouldn’t be an issue since it doesn’t flake and isn’t an obvious toy, but apparently the percentage of lead used in brass can contribute to minor lead poisoning.

      1. I hopefully wash my hands more consistently than a kid, but thanks for the heads up since all the brass door knobs in this place are seventy years old and I doubt they’ve ever been tested!

  7. I have had a minivan since I had two in diapers. The moving kids to school years start in August (for at least the next 6 years). The van is 16YO. If you’ve been here, what is your next vehicle. A newer van (huge utility win for the family — we car camped with it a ton during COVID)? Something more luxe but still large? I’ve had a bunch of rental cars while touring colleges and nothing is really making me swoon. The last time I looked at cars, it took forever to actually get this one once I had picked out what I want, so I feel that the time to start looking is now before the Odyssey gives up the ghost.

    1. If you will be driving the kids to college and back with all their stuff annually, keep the minivan.

    2. If you love it, I would just get a new Odyssey. Otherwise you’re looking at 3 row SUVS like the Ford Explorer (which my in-laws love). On the luxury side there’s Lincoln Aviator, Cadillac Vistiq (but that’s a BEV), Buick Enclave. Or even bigger you’ve got the Escalade and Navigator. Lots of options but IMO too expensive.

      1. One of my coworkers was thrilled to go from a minivan to a Navigator, and I’m like … but why? It’s still a giant, hulking vehicle.

        OP, you may find this an amusing story: I have an aunt and uncle who are now in their early 70s and still drive a minivan! They started with one of the OG Dodge Caravans when my cousins were little in the 1980s and have never given them up even though they definitely could at this point. They’ve always enjoyed road trips, and the practicality can’t be beat. No faux woodgrain paneling anymore, though, lol. I’m sure their Pacifica drives better, too.

        1. As someone who works in the industry I would not go for a Stellantis (Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/etc) – crazy quality problems and recalls. I still drive my 15 year old Toyota fwiw.

    3. I am team station wagon forever. The ones on the market now are a LOT of fun to drive (good weight to HP ratio, good suspension, luxe interior). They are remarkably spacious, especially if you fold down all or part of the rear seats. You can put a roof rack and Thule on them for moving more stuff.

    4. What do you want your next vehicle to accommodate? If you don’t need to fit 4 adults, luggage, camping gear, and dorm stuff regularly, do you envision needing all the hauling space a minivan provides? Is fuel economy important?

      We downsized from a Suburban to a Camry once the kids flew the coop and have no regrets. The Suburban was great when we had sports equipment to haul and summar road trips to pack for, but if the college kids need to haul a sofa and minifridge we can borrow or rent something for that.

      1. OP here: I’ve got to deal with a parental storage unit and a MIL who is a hoarder. The possibilities are endless once you can fit a queen mattress in the back and have sliding doors. It’s a mobile ADU!

        I wish that the Odyssey was available as an AWD hybrid (like the Sienna, but they are in such high demand that I couldn’t even test drive one). I hate to just put money down on what is a 60K minivan without driving one, but this is a weird world.

        1. …do you want to continue being your MIL’s on-demand hoarding support/moving service? Seems like a vehicle too small to haul her stuff is a no-brainer.

    5. Reading with interest. My oldest is 16, and I am itching for a smaller vehicle. But this dang Odyssey is still perfect for roadtrips, and college is just around the corner. This is our second van, and the mileage is still relatively low. I’m just sick of minivan mom life, lol. So I don’t know.

      1. How old was the first van when you replaced it? If I were smart, I should have gotten an newer one around the time of COVID, so that is likely why I have such an old car. And it’s hard to beat free, but at some point, I think maybe it will get hard or $$$ to fix the next thing that breaks on it.

        1. Funny you say that — we replaced the first van during Covid. I think it was a 2012, and we ended up getting a 2020 to replace it. So it’s hard to justify a new vehicle when it’s paid for, still running great, isn’t costing a ton of money to maintain, etc.

    6. So this will be an unpopular opinion but I think you need to pick your vehicle based on 95% of your usage and not try to consider outliers. I have a zippy lil hatchback because most of my driving is like Costco and boring life stuff. On the rare occasion I need to buy wood at the hardware store or move furniture I just spend $50 and rent a van. I still come out way ahead by having a small car which meets my needs and renting for exceptions.

      1. +1 to this. Why pay a premium in initial purchase price, ongoing fuel costs, and insurance premiums for more vehicle than you need when you can rent for the one-off situations?

      3. This is also my opinion and I didn’t post it because I didn’t want to get flamed. :)

      4. I have tried to talk my husband into this way of life, but he’s a car guy and likes having all his options. We agreed when we were married 1 expensive hobby per person, and cars is his. We’ve got an off-road ready truck, a practical commuter, and the family minivan. He yearns to one day get a sporty car, but for now just invests in making the existing cars “cooler” and doing their maintenance.

      5. +1
        I live in an area where a lot of kids bike and walk to school, starting from preschool. Starting in around 2nd grade, some kids are biking on their own. Some people drive their kids, which is fine. But, if one of the massive SUVs a parent is using to shuttle their kiddo to school hits a pedestrian or cyclist, it’s a lot more likely to be deadly than if the parent was driving a smaller car. I so wish parents would choose smaller vehicles if their day-to-day is primarily school runs and solo commuting (and also slow down and also not stop their car in the middle of traffic to have their child dart out in the middle of the road right as the school bell is ringing).

    7. If it were me, I’d just rent a van when you need to move and downsize to something actually fun to drive. I’m a big fan of my mini cooper.

    8. I have a Lexus GX and I am deeply in love with it. I bought it new, it’s a 2022. It does have the old tech package, which was a ding against them for a long time but the new models now have CarPlay. It’s luxe but so practical. I have 75k miles on it as I commute in it and it’s our default family car on weekends (family of 4, kid are 8 and 3) and haven’t had a single issue. I plan to drive it in to the ground.

      1. I have a Lexus sedan and love it, but I occasionally miss my Lexus cross-over (RX?). My spouse has a Kia Sportage and it’s way nicer than I expected.

        FWIW, I rented minivans for camping trips for ages and it was always super easy.

    9. As someone who is in the middle of the moving kids to college phase, I really miss having a larger vehicle. We don’t have anything that works for moving kids to and from college, so we have to borrow or rent for that. We rented a Jeep Wagoneer recently to move our oldest several hours away and it was fantastic, but I wouldn’t want to drive something that large every day. We have managed all of our college moves with either a Mazda CX-9 or a minivan and both have worked fine, although I think the minivan has more flexible/usable space overall.

      1. I feel like when you want to rent a van to get your kid to/from college, so will everyone else. May and August be like that. I wouldn’t try to go to Ikea or Target in August, etiher.

        1. Your feelings are valid, but that doesn’t mean they are based in reality. The rental industry has enough supply to meet this demand.

          1. I don’t think this is 100% true. More than once recently mini-vans have been sold out to rent for me. I’m not suggesting you should buy one for one use case, but it may be competitive, book well in advance etc..

    10. I would get a luxury suv. When my kids are off to college I won’t be driving a minivan. If we really need something for capacity we can get a pickup or something for either SH to drive or as a 3rd car. Otherwise, drive what you want and rent a uhaul for moving kids. Or give them the minivan :).

  8. had my roots done last night so have a professional blow out today. love it, feels so good…

    1. I think half the reason I do my roots professionally is the blow out. That and the fact that my brown hair is surprisingly tricky to get right at home without brassiness.

  9. Has anyone had a mammogram come back funny? And while it may have would up being nothing, how did a blip alter what happened in the next years with screenings and doctor follow-up, if any. I feel that life >50 seems like a choose-your-own adventure game as parts go out of warranty. I like it better when my doctors were older than me, but increasingly they are younger by at least a decade.

    1. I’ve got dense breasts, and Jewish heritage so all of my mamograms require a follow up ultrasound. The scheduling is a hassle and I swapped to a practice that has their own equipment so I can do both on the same day. As an added bonus, my current Gyn is primarily focused on endocrine disorders/menopause/fertility issues so even though the doctors are younger I feel like they are so much more informed on issues women face past 35. It’s been shocking to me how much better I feel with pelvic floor PT, estrogen cream, and new medications.

    2. I ended up having a biopsy and I was diagnosed with LCIS. Basically, the conditions are conducive for cancer. I now meet with one doctor 4 times a year for checkups.

      The way I look at it, this is the upside of preventative care. I am taking care of my body, and information is power.

    3. I had one come back funny a couple years ago and they sent me for a repeat with an ultrasound added on. Those were both fine, so they haven’t otherwise changed anything and I continue to go for an annual mammogram. Everything since then has been clear.

    4. Yes, and I had to get a follow up screening and then a biopsy, and scheduling and billing was an absolute nightmare. It turned out to be nothing but they told me to come back every 6 months. It’s hard to shake the feeling that some of it is a money grab.

      1. I disagree with Cochrane that mammograms aren’t worth the “anxiety” they cause in the frail feminine psyche, but I sympathize with questioning whether they’re worth all the money and time and hassle in people who are considered lowest risk.

    5. I’m still on the young-ish side for annual mammos, but every one I’ve had thus far has come back funny. I’ve had follow up ultrasounds 3 years running, and two biopsies. All benign, but it’s annoying. I’m glad my doctors are cautious and proactive, and I know it’s all for the sake of my health, but it sure isn’t fun. The amount of doctor visits I have post-40 seems to be increasing exponentially.

    6. Almost every one of my friends who has had a mammogram has had one come back with concerns at some point. I’d guesstimate close to 90% of first time mammos and closer to 30% for subsequent. All of them were clear once their biopsies came back (knock on wood). So anecdotally, it seems like doctors err really far on the side of double checking rather than risk missing something bad.

  10. I tend to have big feelings at the end of each school year, and I’m hoping that moms of older or grown kids can relate. My oldest just finished his sophomore year, and it’s hitting me hard that the next two years are going to go so quickly. He is a great kid who is doing great academically and has found his place in high school activities, which I love for him. Middle school and elementary were so hard for him (more about that below).

    I have so many worries about whether we’re doing enough to prepare him for real life. Have we taught him enough lessons? Are we instilling good values? Is our home dynamic one that we’d want him to repeat with his own family? I sure hope so, but our parenting experience hasn’t been typical. DS has severe ADHD and although he is on a mostly good path now, we were in pure survival mode for many years. The lows were … really low. His independence and executive functioning is a few years behind his peers, which is typical for ADHD, but downright terrifying when you have a kid who is nearing the age to launch. I feel something akin to grief: like the challenges we all faced earlier have ended up compressing our timeline for getting him ready for adulthood. Please tell me that it’s going to be OK and nobody is fully formed at age 18?

    1. so long as he doesn’t commit a felony or get someone pregnant, there is no decision (good or bad) that he can’t take back. he is not fully formed. my eldest has real issues and just finished a really terrific freshman year of college. i was worried. all you can do is try to prepare them and let them go. Even a catastropic freshman year can be moved passed. good luck to you oth!

    2. Does he have a job this summer? I feel like that is really where kids this age grow. I feel for you.
      Signed,
      Parent of AuDHD kid (decades prior, would be the very eccentric kid that is always losing glasses)

      1. He is trying and has applied lots of places. Hasn’t been hired anywhere yet, and I’ve heard the same thing from other parents of teens. It’s rough out there — there is less interest in hiring teens when there are plenty of older people looking for work. :(

        1. i have heard this too but i also am not convinced its actually that true. the kids i know who are hustlers have stuff… camps? can he swim? lifeguards are always in demand? lots of places by me have grounds keeping kind of postings….

          1. FOr our neurospicy kid, before she was old enough to work formally, she watered plants and volunteered at a church-sponsored Freedom School kid literacy camp. “Job-like” was better than no job. Kids in our ‘hood have nannies or go away for a month of summer camp or do year-round sports, so harder to get babysitting jobs than I would have thought.

    3. I have an AuDHD kid in high school and literally was awake at night thinking the same things. At the end of the day, yes, your child will be ok because you’re a strong support, presence, and advocate in their lives. I bet they know (and if not start talking about) how not everyone follows the exact same path right out of high school. It’s ok to live at home and do community college for a year, or take a gap year, or go to trade school, etc. There is still a lot of parenting that takes place after 18. My boomer parents were very much of the ‘you’re an adult at 18’ and didn’t provide a lot of life guidance in college but I knew I always had a place to land if needed and that was a big emotional help.

      1. Thanks, this is helpful. He is very eager to go to college and is locked in. I suspect he will end up attending locally instead of going out of state so he has some extra support around him. Luckily, we have an R1 right in our town, which gives him plenty of options for majors, programs, etc. Part of me would really like him to have the experience of going out of state and moving further away from the nest, but that’s ultimately his decision.

    4. Have you done anything to work on executive functioning? My brother and I are both neurospicy but because I’m AFAB I was held to much higher standards. There’s a reason that in our 30s, I own a home while he still lives with our parents and is an apprentice despite having the qualifications to get certified.

      1. Yes, as a female ADHD’er in school in the 90s/early 00s the expectation was just that I’d adapt and overcome. Never mind the expectations placed on my ADHD mother and godmother. My brother got much more support for his ADHD than I did and while he’s doing well now, he certainly had failure to launch for most of his 20s in ways I didn’t. And the support/handholding/parental handwringing he had seems minimal compared to what’s happening now.

        I actually think ADHD is currently overly pathologized, but recognize thats not a popular take.

      2. For you, as a threadjack, did you do OK in a dorm with a roommate? Kiddo wants to try that and DH is set against it, that we are inflicting our autistic kid on an unsuspecting roommate. I think that many SLACs do a good job with honest roommate quizzes for pairing kids (and we can always re-assess if things don’t work out), but I feel that a kid who wants to try typical setups should get to try. All kids likely struggle with a new roommate in a dorm and our kid has done OK with this in summer on-campus settings before. [FWIW, IDK that many schools house freshmen in singles and feel that it’s better to be with freshmen vs on some upperclass hall by yourself to start with.]

        1. It is true that SLACs do a good job! I would plan for a formal, polite, respectful, and drama-free relationship with a quiet, academically ambitious roommate who is not there to party. It may help to have some guidelines on how to be a considerate roommate if it doesn’t come naturally if it’s hard to pick up on social cues and hints. But being NT and fretting a lot about being liked and trying to read minds is not always the more comfortable first year roommate experience either!

        2. My AuDHD kid struggled with roommates their first two years, and they did better overall after they received an accommodation for a single. It made a huge difference in happiness and academics.

        3. My kid is at a SLAC and thinks half the kids there are on the spectrum. In a not-bad way.

        4. Our neighbor kid (also AuDHD) got a roommate this year, and it has actually gone really well for him. I’d say keep an open mind.

        5. OG commenter here, I personally didn’t do dorms, I skipped straight to a studio apartment. I could not handle sharing a kitchen, or dealing with another person’s smells. I’m a fastidious person and when it comes to other people’s messes I either freeze or become mom. For my own mental health the studio was very important to have complete control and autonomy (I paid for all this myself FWIW).

        6. Tell your husband to let your kid grow up. The roommate issues I’ve seen with the ND kids of friends and family are usually the kind where the roommate, not the ND kid, is the issue–either bringing boyfriends/girlfriends into the room or becoming depressed and withdrawn and never going to class and refusing to speak. Most college kids can get along with a roommate who has a few harmless quirks, even if they won’t become best friends.

    5. Were YOU fully formed at age 18?
      Did YOUR parents give you everything you needed?
      Were there people you NEEDED to learn from, other than your parents, and you couldn’t have learned that stuff from your parents?
      Were there things you couldn’t have begun to mature in or know how to do at age 18, and you weren’t able to learn them until you were in your 20s? Or 30s? or 40s — or still haven’t matured in those areas?

      That’s what it’s like for all of us.
      Including your son.

      1. I hear you, but in my experience, any kid with autism or ADHD gets cut no slack for not being perfectly formed. People tolerate differences if it is Nobel-level math autism vs “I have socially weird but harmless stims autism”.

        My neurotypical kid can have issues and it’s fine, she’s just a teen. Her sister with autism gets “maybe X isn’t’ for you” for the same thing.

        1. This is why all these posts worrying about sending mildly ND kids to college bother me. All 18-year-olds have some degree of immaturity, but if they don’t have the ND label parents don’t worry about it and try to limit their children in the same way. The right college (emphasis on “right”) plus a motivated ND kid is a fantastic combination, and for many kids the right college will be an easier environment to navigate than high school. The ND kids I have seen flounder in college are those who probably wouldn’t be a good fit for college if they were NT–didn’t want to be there, no vision for an adult future, etc.

        2. Yup. They are already under the microscope. We’ve even seen it with behavioral stuff. The neurotypical kids get away with things, while the ADHD or AuDHD kids get labeled as having behavioral issues.

          1. Asking from a sincere and curious place – are you saying that the diagnosis itself is harmful in these circumstances? I feel like a lot more kids are diagnosed today than would have been in the past and someone who would have been just labelled quirky or forgetful/disorganized when I was growing up often has a diagnosis now.
            Curious if you find it results in “behavioral issues” label as these kids get in their teens or college age. I haven’t heard that mentioned before but I do wonder about the effects of having a medical label in arguably borderline cases so would love to know your experience.

          2. I don’t think that you need a label or need to share the label. My kid telegraphs other-ness. It’s like you put an emo kid in the middle of a Bama rush tik-tok. Think: every kid at school is happy to be out of class at the pep rally for the boys sports ball team but my kid has headphones on and is hiding under the bleachers because it is too loud and she is all-business at school. She doesn’t casually chit-chat with anyone in her class (but will talk to teachers). She has stood out as a kid, but was just treated as precocious and then eccentric. The bullying was off the chart by peers in elementary school.

          3. I do think that most schools exclude outliers pretty much by design (it’s noticeable if a school is set up differently!).

          4. 12:58, no, I’m not saying that at all. For one, getting an actual diagnosis allows my son to have the medication he needs. It’s not a cure-all, but it’s a tool in the toolbox. I’m just sharing my lived reality, which is that once a kid stands out negatively (and ADHD kids often do, due to impulsivity and hyperactivity), it’s hard to turn back how others perceive them.

  11. Let’s talk about watch trends. I have been considering relegating my Apple Watch to exercise and switching back to a real watch for daily wear. My preferred look is a larger watch on a stainless steel bracelet. I am over 40, but I’ve recently been seeing people in their 20s and even some in their 30s favoring tiny old lady watches. I would never wear one of these, partly because it would age me, partly because I just think they are ugly, and partly because they don’t fit my personal style. If I stick with a larger watch will I look frumpy and outdated, or can I still carry it off as classic?

    Currently considering the Longines Conquest 41mm, the quartz version for budgetary reasons. Other suggestions under $1,000 would also be welcome. I had a Tag Heuer at one point but the quality was terrible, so I prefer to avoid that brand.

    1. It depends on your style and your wrist. Watches are swinging back to smaller and more dainty, but if it fits your frame, it fits your frame. I’d say anything around a 34-36mm is going to be a good, trend-less size for most women. 41MM does read as being very millennial Michael Kors 2010s to me unless the person has a distinct sporty style. Anything from Seiko is going to be exceptional quality and very endlessly repairable. This will be on the smaller side but I’d also recommend the STGF359 from Grand Seiko, which clocks in at 28mm (small, but not micro), it’s a retail price at about $2.5k but I’ve seen it on the secondhand market for 1.5k. I’m mentioning it because you’re getting exceptional, top of the line finishing and quality (Rolex, Cartier, Patek level) at a really fantastic price. It’s my favorite bang-for-the-buck watch right now. You can also look for Tissots, Hamiltons, etc for options under $1k.

    3. I am in my 40s and don’t think large watches on a woman’s wrist ever read as classic. They may look great and may express your personal style perfectly, but that’s not what classic style means.

      1. I think of someone who looks and dresses like Katherine Hepburn (no idea what watch she wore) and I think classic. I have a larger round face Shinola w a leather strap that I like a lot.

    4. The older I get, the more I realize that the people I think are stylish are the people who own what they wear. Maybe that’s a “trend” or a “classic” or maybe it’s something unique — the key is not what they’re wearing but that they walk around looking like they don’t care what other people think of their style. They wear what THEY like.

      I realize that doesn’t help with your specific question, but maybe it helps with the thoughts behind the question you posed? If YOU like a larger watch, wear it with confidence! :-)

    5. I really like my Shinola – it is 41 and as I’m larger boned it looks better on my wrist than a small one. I’ve had it for 8 years now and I had to send it back for something once – not only did they fix the problem for free, but the mother of pearl face was cracked (totally my fault) and they fixed that for free as well.

    6. Check out Tissot. Prices range from about $300-$2,000+ depending on the style and mechanism, and they come in a variety of sizes and band styles. I have an “Everytime” 34 mm with a stainless band for everyday wear and one of the larger styles with a blue face for fun. For me they hit the sweet spot of looking nice without being so expensive I’d be afraid to wear them.

      1. Not OP, but I am in the same situation as OP and I like what I see on the Tissot site. Thank you!

  12. Is childcare a legitimate business development or networking expense? I have a personal business development budget from my firm. The firm provides guidance on permissible uses (and impermissible uses) for the budget; we are encouraged to use it for travel expenses, meals, tickets but alcohol is not allowed. Childcare isn’t mentioned.

    DH and I are attending a firm-sponsored charity event out of town that will require an overnight stay. Ticket prices are included in the firm’s sponsorship, but I’m expected to cover travel expenses from my budget. We will have to hire an overnight babysitter, which is a significant expense (I have meetings for the charity during the day so I have to pay for ~30 hours of babysitting). We do not have family who can do this. Everyone in my office who has kids also has very involved grandparents who take the kids overnight for things like this, so there isn’t anyone I can ask informally. Is this a clearly yes or clearly no situation? Or should I ask the babysitter for a receipt, submit it, and hope for the best?

    1. Clear no. Should it be a yes? One could make an argument. But 99% of offices will not cover it.

      1. Just to be clear, the personal marketing budget is treated differently than a reimbursement request submitted to the office. I’m the partner who is approving my personal marketing expense, I don’t ask permission from another partner (like I would for an office request). Presumably some staff person screens budget items to make sure they don’t violate firm policy before they cut the check. And if they see something concerning then I guess they escalate it somewhere? I’d rather not be flagged for doing something questionable, if childcare costs are questionable. But if this is totally ok then I don’t want to pay out of pocket when I didn’t have to. Make sense?

    2. I think the policy has more to do with IRS regulations about what the firm can write off as business expenses, vs a subjective choice to make things expensive and inconvenient for you.

    4. Clearly no, in my opinion.

      In your situation, I think a lot of people would have the employee spouse go solo and leave the non-employee spouse at home with the kids.

    5. If they aren’t even covering your travel expenses, why on earth would you expect them to cover child care, which is specifically excluded from eligibility for travel reimbursement by every employer I’ve ever had?

    6. Definitely not allowed. Most employers have a written travel policy that states childcare and petcare are not reimbursable.

    7. Does your firm require your spouse to go, too? If so, then I think you have a case to make for the childcare costs to be covered.

      But my guess is your spouse’s presence is not mandatory and so the fact that you have childcare costs is not a result of your firm’s attendance requirements.

  13. Do you ever get obsessed with a certain thing for months on end, and then when that thing is over, you can’t stop your previous bad habits about reading endlessly about said topic? For me, this has happened with certain TV shows, a big trip I was planning, a home improvement project, and most recently my kid’s college admissions. I have bookmarked a bunch of pages and I just go back and read about stuff that is basically not relevant anymore? What is the solution to this (besides gravitating to another obsession)?

    1. I get obsessed with certain things for months on end but then will usually drop them. I sometimes will go back to something less relevant and enjoy an hour or two of revisiting. I only come back to certain things my whole life – skiing and rafting are my two seasonal obsessions and those come and go throughout the year.

    2. For TV shows, this is just part of enjoying the show for me! But I prefer to make it a little more social, like finding a forum or a discord server where I can discuss it with other people who are on the same wavelength at the time!

      Maybe that’s what I do with other projects too (pass on what I learned to people I encounter who are asking the same questions I had).

    3. Apply these tendencies towards learning something and then doing it? Then you can build useful skills and avoid ruminating on stale information. Could be cooking, woodworking, sewing, garden design, magic tricks, whatever strikes your fancy.

    4. I find this dies out naturally on its own. Things like wedding planning, house buying, I still looked at wedding planning sites and house listings even after I got married and bought a house, but over time it became less exciting since I don’t have any personal investment in it anymore. As long as it’s not fueling regrets about your own choices (colleges picked, remodeled rooms, etc) I think it’s pretty harmless.

    5. Thanks for everyone who responded. You have given me food for thought and I appreciate your advice.

    6. I do – when I was diagnosed as ADHD the idea of hyperfixations made a lot of sense to me.

      Sometimes for me I need to be careful that I don’t tarnish the memory or enjoyment of what the finished project is by keeping reading about it. I’d hate to finish a home improvement project and THEN see the perfect wallpaper, or realize you missed out on a great site on your trip because you didn’t know about it or think it was for you.

  14. Try orange! I have a very, very pale skin tone (Irish-y with freckles), hazel eyes, and brown hair, and orange looks surprisingly great on me. Whenever I wear a bright, happy orange I get tons of compliments!

    1. Unless you are a deep winter with brown hair, freckled pale skin, and hazel eyes. Orange makes me look jaundiced (which makes me sad, because I love orange).

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