Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Crossover Front Knit Sweater

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

how to style a striped sweater for workStripes are often thought of as a classic, but I’m not a fan of the body-widening effect of horizontal stripes. So I really like this vertically striped sweater (which also comes in two solid colors, as well as a green/blue stripe). The crossover effect in the front looks great — sometimes they can look like nursing shirts gone wrong, or a DIY-kind of thing — and the price is great for a sweater for work with a “touch of cashmere:” $41. There are lots of lucky sizes left among the different colors, but something for everyone. And a styling note: If you worry about looking too much like a goalie in stripes, try pairing a collared blouse under it (I’m seeing a chambray or blue silk, for some reason) and even putting a blazer on top of that if temperatures permit. Pictured: Crossover Front Knit Sweater

Here’s a similar plus-size option (also here).

Psst: Don’t you just hate when things go on sale mere days after you bought them? I just bought this ergonomic mouse for $20 at Amazon and today it’s down to $9 in a lightning deal. (I haven’t used it yet.) FYI!

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]


  1. Help me find a new grey suit! I’d prefer darker grey/charcoal, and I want to have a matching jacket, slim pants, skirt, and dress. I love the look of Theory, but I’m not ready to pay Theory prices. Ann Taylor is my go-to for this sort of thing, but they don’t have a grey suit with multiple pieces available right now.

    • Calvin Klein?

    • Talbots has this. They’ve moved on to spring/summer lighter grey, but if you search for ‘shadow heather’ you may get lucky in your size with their remaining darker winter grey on clearance.

      • Thank you! All 4 pieces were still available in my size – got everything for under $200!

        • I haven’t tried their suiting so I would be interested in hearing how you like them, if you don’t mind. They seem to have a lot of suiting now in some very classic styles.

          • Talbots Suits :

            I have the jacket and pencil skirt. Talbots suits used to be more flattering on a curvier / hourglass lady; however, their new fit (at least the shadow heather) is straighter. The quality isn’t incredible, but it’s okay and it is a wool blend for slightly more than poly. With their current fit, banana republic is a better quality for about the same price (unless you buy it on their current super deal). If you can fit into the last remnants of the super 120s at J. Crew too, that might be a better purchase. I’ll have to get lots of tailoring done to nip in the jacket and waist on the skirt. I may sound more negative than I actually am – I have a suit from them that I love the fit of, but they switched to this other fit style. I’m kicking myself for buying that other suit in poly instead of wool.

            For a petite suit though, it’s not bad. The sleeves on the jacket are too long and not as short as on the previous Talbots suits, but it hits correctly at the hip. The skirt fits properly though. If you’re petite though, don’t buy their regular length suit dresses – they have way too much room between the bust and the waist (rather than just hemming it, you would have to cut it apart at the waist). I returned that one.

          • I picked up the seasonless sheath dresses last year and loved them. I used to buy banana tropical wool suiting dresses but when they went super trendy and stopped doing suits I tried the talbots dresses when I found them for around $100 and like them a lot. I wash on the delicate cycle and hang dry, then steam clean; and then take them to the dry cleaner 1x or 2x a year to get them re-crisped.

        • Hooray!

    • J Crew has all the pieces in a charcoal that look like the same material with most of the sizes available:

    • As an FYI Theory is running a sample sale right now – they have lots of in grey and they’re 60% off normal pricing.

  2. I’ve a massage class tonight with my partner (essentially he practices on me) and apparently i should wear something with open back and elsewhere they say bathing suit. This should be easy but am very confused. Any specific ideas on what I can wear? i really don’t want to have to buy something and don’t own anything backless

    • Anonymous :

      sports [email protected] or thin tank or tee?

    • I would wear a loose-fit top that’s easy to move around as needed. I don’t understand how a bathing suit would work since massages are usually skin to skin?

      • One piece suit can come with a U-back. Or a bikini top can often leave most of the back bare. I assume they are focusing on the back for this session, vs other areas of the body.

        OP – what if you took a button down shirt and wore it backwards (for the actual massaging part)? Or take an old T-shirt, slit it up the back (or up to the collar (don’t cut the collar) and then tie it at the waist in the back.

    • I assume the point is keeping your modesty in front of the class while wearing as little as possible. In this case I think that means just covering your bits, so a string bikini, and untie the back when he’s working there.

    • I agree with the other p’osters. Be VERY wary of directions to wear clothing that let’s you get exposed, even if ONLY to your “partner”, who I presume has seen you naked. Irregardeless of that, you are NOT in private when you take a class, and it is likely that the teacher will come over to “help”, and that could mean him haveing to be shown how to massage (meaning GROPE) in places you do NOT even want your partner gropeing. FOOEY!

      I saw David Schwimmer’s videos on sexueal harassment and they are very good. Men are ALWAYS trying to get cheap thrills by gropeing at our bodies, either intentionally, or under the guys of trying to show us something. I do NOT like men grabbing my tuchus, or worse yet, other personal areas down there. DOUBEL FOOEY on that. I do NOT want to do that to any man, either, even if I were married. That is for him to do to himself if he wants, tho my ex wanted ME to do what he should have been doing for himself. TRIPEL FOOEY!

  3. Cleaning glassware :

    What is the secret to getting streak and mark-free glassware? I’ve tried products in the dishwasher, hand-washing and drying, and my glassware still shows water spots. I’ll try anything. I’m so tired of feeling embarrassed when I go to serve someone a glass of wine!

    • Anonymous :

      I’m pretty sure you just need to dry it properly – it’s not about washing. Have you tried a microfiber towel to wipe down the glass immediately after it’s washed (either in the dishwasher or by hand)?

      • Anonymous :

        This article might help, too.

      • Cleaning glassware :

        Maybe that’s the issue. I was using regular dish towels or paper towels. I haven’t tried microfiber. Thanks!

      • We use a thin cotton, kind of like a floursack. If there are still waterspots you can breathe on the glass, kind of like you do with glasses. If you think it is because you have hard or soft water you could rinse with purified water (like from your Brita filter). We don’t usually do this for regular wineglasses.

      • Tech Comm Geek :

        I picked up some microfiber dish towels at Costco. I love them! They actually absorb the water and actually dry the dishes. I liked them so much I bought some for my mother for Christmas.

        Also, check to see if you are putting aluminum items in the dishwasher. Aluminum + dishwasher detergent + glass can lead to cloudy/slightly etched glassware.

    • Anonymous :

      If you are handwashing and it’s still happening, might not be soap residue, might be your water. You could just rinse them right before you serve. I often run a little bit of water over/in glasses right before i use them. I have friends who do this too for things they don’t use frequently and which might have a bit of dust.

    • Do you have hard water? That will leave spots no matter what you do. You can get a whole house water softener but even that is not 100% effective.

    • Former Retail :

      There is a product called Lemi Shine that I add to powder detergent in my dishwasher. When phosphates were removed from detergents a few years ago it really affected how they work (darn enviroment.) I have found that adding this product (essentially citric acid, I think) helps.

    • I am not allowed to touch the dishwasher but my husband puts a pod or detergent in the rinse cupe, and lemi shine in the detergent cup. He swears by this. We have very hard water.

    • My husband is a sommelier. Not for everyday, but when we’re serving something nice, he boils some water and holds the glasses over the steam, then polishes with a cloth (Riedel brand) specifically designed for wine glasses. (This is what he did in the Michelin star restaurant he once worked at.) To be honest, it’s a bit much for me, but I’ll admit that it really works. Most of the time (90% or more), though, we just wash our glasses in the dishwasher with one of those Finish tabs.

      • One of the snobbier wine writers, I’m trying to remember his name, says most home-washed classes have soap residue that he can taste. Robert Parker, that’s his name. He’s really full of himself. (I hope your husband is not Robert Parker!)

        But after I read that, I do notice a soap smell after I wash my wine glasses in the dishwasher, so I usually give them another rinse before we serve a good wine, and then I dry them with a paper towel.

        For every day wine though, I’m just fine with my small Picardie tumblers.

        • Ha! I’d be a lot wealthier and drink much better wine if my husband were Robert Parker…although I agree that Parker seems like a jerk in his writings.

    • Whenever I notice spots, I put a little more rinse-aid in my dishwasher, and the next time I wash glass it’s perfect. I just use those little blue bottles of Jet you can find at any hardware store, CVS, Target…

    • Metallica :

      Or you could just drink from the bottle, as I have been known to do :)

  4. Triangle Pose :

    Does anyone own the Cuyana Silk Wrap Blouse? It looks so perfect, but I struggle to pull the trigger for $225 unless I know it’ll last. I have a few blouses like this from theory and scoured ebay and poshmark for them but this one from Cuyana looks heavenly. Anyone?

    • No but I just looked at it and it is very pretty.

    • Triangle Pose :

      This one!

      • I know I would spill and entire glass of iced tea down the front of either of those day 1 so I don’t wear light colors and delicate fabrics but if you do, I’d be super impressed to see you wearing it.

        • Triangle Pose :

          Ha, I do! Cream, blulsh or peach 100% silk blouses tucked into pencil skirts or ankle pants is one of my favorite work looks. I was just hoping someone here could rave about it so I know it’s really worth the splurge…gahhhh

          • Anonymous :

            I have purchased Cuyana silk tees before – the quality is top notch and I love that they are thick enough to hide a black bra. I probably wouldn’t buy the tees again because its cut too boxy for my taste. If you like the cut of the wrap blouse, its probably worth the splurge.

          • Triangle Pose :

            Thank you!

  5. Wardrobe tracking :

    I’ve been doing the wardrobe challenge this week. It has me thinking that maybe I need to keep a log of favorite outfits that I can come back to again and again. I am terrible at making decisions when I’m rushed in the morning — and frankly, I don’t want to put that much thought into it! I’ve streamlined my wardrobe a lot already, but I still forget about combinations that I like and default to the same outfits over and over again. Has anyone done something like this, and if so, how did you make it an easy process?

    • Selfies?

      • Senior Attorney :

        I do this. I will admit, I bought the Amazon Echo Look and mounted it on the wall in the Woman Cave, and now in the morning I just say “Alexa, take my picture” and boom! I have a record of what I was wearing. It takes, like, one second. And before that I was balancing my camera on the edge of a bookshelf. It’s fun to look back at what I’ve worn over time.

    • Baconpancakes :

      I use Polyvore to make outfits all the way down to shoes and jewelry, and also like that it helps me digitally search through clothes. I use the Polyvore Chrome plugin to clip the individual pieces from websites most of the time. If the individual piece isn’t still for sale, I use whatever looks closest.

      • Could you say more? That sounds so helpful! Is it a phone app similar to Pinterest?

        • Baconpancakes :

          Sure! It’s a website, but with a phone app, and it lets you put together inspiration board “Sets” of whatever images you want – in my case, an outfit, although I’ve also used it to design parts of my home decor. There’s some useful tools that let you “cut out” a background from a piece of clothing, or flip it horizontally or vertically, etc. The website expands those tools, to do your own cutting and clipping and selecting images from almost any website on the internet.

          I have a collection of “My Items” that are images of most of the clothes/shoes/jewelry I own, which you build by “Liking” items. If the clothing item is currently being sold in stores, I can usually clip the item from the seller’s website. If it’s not sold, or is by a small business, or is old, I look for a similar item on google or polyvore’s own database and just Like that item. Then I can easily find them again. It’s a super low budget (free) version of a virtual wardrobe builder. When I am looking to create an outfit, I can grab whatever pieces I want and create a Set, including what necklaces and sometimes even which lipstick or nail polish to pair with it. Then I can scroll through my Sets when I don’t know what to wear at 7am, and I know exactly what to wear, down to the jewelry. I deviate from the Set when I don’t feel like wearing those earrings or those shoes, etc, but it is a great launching point.

    • I keep a spreadsheet of daily outfits and clothing purchases. Last year I added a separate sheet for “good outfits” that would probably fit the bill. I love the Polyvore idea but that’s way too labor intensive with the amount of clothing I have, but if I had a smaller wardrobe or was starting fresh, I think it’d be great.

      • Baconpancakes :

        It was definitely a lot of work to start out, but I’ve eased into it, putting together outfits for new pieces of clothing or pieces that I feel like I should be wearing but I’m not, and now it’s super easy to clip a new item when I buy it and have my entire wardrobe at my fingertips. I’m also pretty visual, so that helps a lot!

    • Anonymous :

      Stylebook! Check the app store. I love to make outfits in advance.

    • Anonymous :

      I am totally non-functional in the morning, so at the start of each season (summer and not summer) I pile everything onto my bed so I can see it and make outfits with it, and then hang the outfits together on the bar. Then all I have to manage in the morning is to grab an outfit and add shoes, a bag and jewelry. The rest of my things get hung in a holding zone until something in an outfit dies. Then I shop the zone for a new combination. When I get things back from the cleaners I reassemble the outfits.

  6. The female price of male pleasure :

    This article from the Week is very good (and sobering) following last week’s discussions about Aziz Ansari and whether women should have s*x with their husbands when they don’t want to:

    • I thought this article was brilliant. It captures so many aspects of my experience as a woman that I never could have put into words this way and gives me a lot to think about with regard to raising my daughter.

    • I loved this article. It is the kind of thing I desperately want to post on Facebook but hesitate to do so.

      I know so many women (including me) who put up with pain because it’s what we’re “supposed” to do for our partners.

      Elsewhere on the Internet, I have heard that comparing male reproduction systems and female reproduction systems as being analogous to comparing a Toyota to a Lamborghini. I think comparing erectile dysfunction to painful sex for women is just one example of this imbalance.

      • Maybe if enough of us post it, there will be less scrutiny on any one person who does? I’m in…

      • I’m sorry you’re putting up with pain. Have you investigated what may be causing it?

        • wildkitten :

          Read the article, Anon. NOBODY IS INVESTIGATING IT.

          • I don’t understand why the ALL CAPS and I did read the article, last night, but I’m posting with genuine concern for someone who is having pain.

            Not to all women in the world, but to a specific poster.

            If s3x is something you do and it causes you pain, you should absolutely have it checked out. Substitute the word yoga for s3x and the advice is the same.

          • But who is going to check it out? What body of scientific research will inform this person’s medical recommendations? Did you see the part about it taking ~9 years to get an endometriosis diagnosis?(!)

      • asexual anon :

        I’m replying to this because I haven’t seen a situation similar to mine, and I want to put it out there.

        My annual women’s wellness visit has always been painful. Gardening has also always been painful. I went through multiple (male) doctors telling me to just deal with it, have a glass of wine, and bottom line-just garden repeatedly and it will get better. So I tried to have garden parties. Repeatedly. And it never stopped hurting.

        Three years ago I found a new lady doc, and when I was in tears during my visit, I broke down and told her about the painful gardening (and how these visits are always painful). She was the first one to point out that pain during gardening is not normal, and she referred me to a physical therapist that specialized in lady gardening issues. What it came down to was essentially physical therapy for my…flower…and even now, I avoid gardening because it can still be painful. I mean, trying to explain this to a new partner a can be difficult.

        So-gardening can be painful for some women, you can indeed go through PT for your gardening devices, and sometimes it doesn’t get better. For me, this resulted in identifying as asexual and hoping that I will eventually find a like-minded partner with a similar lack of desire for gardening. I’m still trying to figure out if my lack of desire is due to all of my painful experiences, or if I truly lack a desire for gardening.

    • It’s an interesting article. In the discussion last week though, the woman/women at issue never said anything about pain. I don’t think anyone here would suggest doing something through pain. She just mentioned not being in the mood. These are very different things. Should we have asked if it was because she found the act painful? Maybe. But without that information, the advice in that thread was good. The advice would have been a lot different if the question was I find $3x painful, what should I do?

      • Exactly. For me, often starting s$x gets me in the mood. And if on occasion it just doesn’t, then I stop. But it’s never pushing through pain!

        • Exactly this. I don’t think anyone was suggesting that a woman should continue with the act if it’s painful or she genuinely doesn’t get any pleasure from it. But a lot of women don’t really feel like doing it but enjoy it once it gets going, and sometimes it’s worth pushing past that “blah I’m tired/stressed/thinking about the 100 million things I have to do this week” feeling and just doing it.

      • The female price of male pleasure :

        True (for last week’s discussions), but I remember one discussion on here maybe a year or two years ago where someone wrote in asking what to do about painful s*x and everyone’s first response was that she should get it checked out ASAP, she should find ways to make it work, she should try other things with her partner instead, etc. There was no “it’s okay to not do it” – every comment was coming from the assumption that her marriage HAD to incorporate s*x despite it being consistently painful for her. Of course women should see doctors if they are experiencing pain in any way, but that should be for their own comfort, not their partner’s.

        • Everyone’s comments were about getting herself healed so it wouldn’t be painful! And about engaging in things other than the painful activities!

          And of course we assume marriage includes sex. Because for most people, it does.

        • With the caveat that I don’t remember the particular circumstances of the poster, maybe the poster still wanted to be s*xual with her partner, but the particular PIV variety was painful? If the partner wants to have s*x and the OP wants to have s*x (non-painful), then I’m not sure how helpful a suggestion to just not have s*x would be. It could be that was already the temporary solution they were working with, but the poster wanted to resolve it otherwise.

        • I sense you’re really trying to pick a fight here, OP.

          1) there is no one Voice here – it depends on who’s on and commenting at any given time
          2) if someone posts that she’s having pain and people are telling her to get it checked out at the doctor, I think that is actually helpful
          3) if you think the feminist thing is to say “you have every right not to have s3x” that is true. But you don’t have any right to demand your partner stay with you in a s3xless relationship (it would be a dealbreaker for me for sure!) and most posters are looking for ways to keep their relationship intact ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          • All of this. Plus, most women like s*x and want to have it! So if someone is complaining that it’s recently become painful, the most logical advice is to get checked out by a doctor so she can back to a fulfilling s*x life, rather than just giving up and accepting that she will be abstinent forever. Even if her partner was on board with that (which he probably wouldn’t be) it’s not at all clear that the OP wanted that – it sounded like she just wanted to have s*x without pain and one of the best ways to achieve that is by consulting a doctor.

          • Anonattorney :

            + 100 to your #3.

        • nasty woman :

          Well, she probably wanted to do it (or something similar). If I asked for help with pain during s*x and someone just told me “you know you don’t have to have s*x,” that would not be helpful advice. I know I don’t have to. I also understand that women are bombarded with the cultural message that we *do* have to, and often feel as if they must push through, as the article discusses. Nonetheless, not every question about s*x calls for the assumption that women’s choices are totally controlled by a cultural narrative that must be challenged. Nor should it be assumed that just because no one reminded her that she doesn’t have to have s*x means that we all believe that she must have s*x.

      • Baconpancakes :

        Perhaps my experience isn’t universal, but I find that if I’m not given time to get turned on, the act is, if not painful, uncomfortable. And the discomfort, which sometimes slips into pain, is sometimes overshadowed by my own mental eagerness and arousal, which often works on a different time table than my physical arousal. You can simultaneously be aroused and in discomfort/pain, even if you don’t have a masochistic bone in your body.

        I’ve let my desires to have sex overcome my discomfort so many times it feels normal because my first partners didn’t give much consideration to my pleasure. A few would spend a minute on my pleasure, decide it was good enough, and focus on their own pleasure for the rest of the time. I have a high libido, but my body takes a while to catch up, so I’ve had a lot of sex with a respectably high number of partners, and enjoyed myself every time, but was still frequently in pain. I grew to associate the discomfort with arousal, and truly believed this was normal and universal. I don’t think my experience was uncommon, although other women may have had better first partners, or simply been more assertive in bed from the beginning, or had bodies that went quickly to physical arousal, meaning they sidestepped these problems.

        I was in sheer disbelief the first time my SO and I slept together, because he assumed my pleasure was legitimately as important as his, and he was going to devote himself to making sure I had a great time in bed until I told him to stop. There was no “aren’t you done yet?” This was no small part in why I fell so hard in love with him.

        • I’m the same way. Part of it is I’m small in that dept and my partner is bigger than normal in that dept. It takes a bit for the pleasure to overcome the discomfort. No matter how much f0rep1ay I still experience some discomfort as we move to PIV but it goes away quickly as we get going and is replaced with pleasure. My partner is slow, gentle, and cares about my pleasure.

        • +1

          I have had similar experiences.

      • The article wasn’t just about pain, it was about discomfort, and how women are socialized to ignore their discomfort in s*xual situations. The question people keep posing is why Grace didn’t leave if she felt uncomfortable, and the author was pointing out examples of how our society prioritizes male pleasure over female comfort.

        • wildkitten :

          Yes. This.

        • My problem with the whole Grace story was not that she did not leave or say a clear and unambiguous “no”. I was once in my 20’s and eager for approval and afraid of conflict. Most of us can recognize the cultural pressures and expectations that lead to that type of behavior and I think the article does a good job of talking about those. We can even resolve to try hard to raise our daughters to recognize them and learn to stand up for themselves and what they want (with the caveat that it is sometimes OK to want to have s*x to make someone else happy even if you are not 100% on-board.)

          My problem with the Grace story is that the blame was being clearly placed at the feet of the man she was with. And having read the story, I felt like the grief he was getting was disproportional to his conduct. In a perfect world, would he have asked again after she said she wanted to stop? No. But I can understand why he did given the ambiguity in her words and behavior.

          Going back to the article, if Person A and Person B are having s*x and Person B is in pain, I think it is incumbent on Person B to SPEAK UP. If they do not, that is not Person A’s fault. I can sympathize with Person B and identify the societal pressures that lead to that conduct without blaming Person A.

    • You’re conflating a lot of issues here, OP.

      Married people make compromises for the sake of the marriage that single people don’t make. Those include taking in elderly in-laws, cutting back on personal spending, moving, doing paid or unpaid work to benefit other people, and, yes, gardening.

      The gardening issue is a lot like ordering food in a restaurant. When my SO and I go out, he will sometimes order vegetarian so I can have some of his meal, even though he might prefer chicken or steak. Sometimes we will go to a steakhouse so he can get a great piece of ribeye or whatever, and I eat whatever is on the menu that’s vegetarian – even if it’s blah. But we would *never* ask the other person to eat something they found to be physically disgusting or were allergic to.

      I’m not going to shame those who garden prolifically, but, given the physical disparities, maybe one part of the solution is to find men who would sooner bring pain upon themselves than you.

      (Now I will wait for Nasty Woman to tell me this isn’t feminist enough. Five… four… three… two…)

      • So, for about a year after I had a kid and was b*feeding, my body was so dehydrated that s*x was always painful. No amount of lube or pre-playtime was sufficient to make it not painful.

        I knew, intellectually, that s*x is part of a healthy marriage and that my husband was pretty miserable. But there wasn’t a physical way for it to be pleasurable for me during that time period.

        Given your restaurant scenario, what would you have recommended in our situation?

        • A husband shouldn’t want to put you in pain for his own pleasure.

          • Anonymous :

            This. DH and I went almost a year after my first when I had some issues post-birth. There’s lots of other stuff you can do that’s not PIV, and your partner needs to be respectful of your situation and adjust expectations. Six years later we’ve rebounded to near honeymoon levels.

          • +1000. If my husband made me feel guilty or like a bad person for not wanting to engage in something causing me physical pain, he would be out the door.

        • Anonymous :

          Not the person you’re replying to, but what about seeing a doctor? Lots of people are able to have s*x without pain while nursing, I wouldn’t just accept that it was physically impossible without trying to find a solution.

        • I’m not saying I have the answers for everyone, but the guiding principles are not hard.

          Best actual gardening solution I have is to get creative and think beyond traditional planting of bulbs in the ground. Take long walks outside. Have him kiss your flowers. Stroke his rake.

          You’re married! Shouldn’t one benefit be having a safe, caring space to talk and work on new things?

      • Yep. I don’t see gardening when I don’t especially feel like it to be much different than any of the billion other things my husband and I both do for the sake of a happy marriage. Gardening when you are in physical pain or gardening when you really don’t want to do it are different, but gardening more frequently than you would choose to because it makes your partner happy is just another compromise.

      • nasty woman :

        I’m not even sure what you’re trying to convey by your last paragraph (my best guess is that you’re encouraging OP to join the BDSM community and find a masochistic partner), and I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. Maybe don’t be pointlessly antagonistic for no reason.

        • Your last sentence is a little rich coming from you….

          • nasty woman :

            Cool. You hate me, Anon. Sorry I ruffle your feathers the wrong way, but you’re wasting way too much time and emotion harassing me all over this board. (Assuming you’re the same person who has been.)

            To be clear, you do know that nasty woman is a reference to the 2016 election, and does not imply that everything I write should be read in a nasty tone? Assume good intentions.

          • Anonymous :

            This is a riduculous comment. I read here everyday – I’ve never been NW be ‘pointlessly antagonistic” – she absolutely replies to responses to her posts and strongly supports her views but she doesn’t post a lot and she doesn’t go around provoking people. If you’re looking for a pointlessly antagonistic poster you might want to look in the mirror. Try to keep in friendly around here. There’s often rigorous debate but it’s a pretty civil online community and most of us would like it to stay that way. Calling out other posters isn’t necessary or helpful.

      • Anonymous :

        Agree with this but confused why you’re going after NW on this. Her post above said basically the same thing you did and is consistent with what she said last week in the post on this issue.

        • She has gone after me and others in the past for being insufficiently feminist.

          • nasty woman :

            Well, maybe that’s because what was said previously was not sufficiently feminist, IMO, despite the authors’ protestations.

            I consider each idea separately, not who writes them. (How could I if you’re all anon?) You can say one thing that’s not very feminist but that doesn’t mean that I’ll go after everything you say as not feminist. That doesn’t even make sense.

          • Anonymous :

            So you decided to call her out on this post because she disagreed with you in the past? Don’t really see how that’s helpful.

            Her post above, which is time stamped before yours, literally says a lot of the same things as yours, and you said she would disagree. So basically you were misrepresenting what she might think and expressly calling her out. Seems like you’re trying to cause drama for no reason. NW generally posts thoughtful and well reasoned comments that I, and many other readers, appreciate reading. We don’t tend to ‘call out’ other posters around here, especially before they’ve even replied to a post so you might want to dial it back a bit.

          • Nasty Woman has called me out for being insufficiently militant feminist. I am a feminist and what u had said was explicitly feminist, just not enough to appease Her Highness, Self Appointed Kommissor of Feminism.

          • Anonymous :

            I’ll refer you to my earlier post that:

            “Try to keep in friendly around here. There’s often rigorous debate but it’s a pretty civil online community and most of us would like it to stay that way.”

            Using an Anon handle to call out named posters is neither helpful or necessary. You claim to have disagreed with her on whether something was ‘feminist’ enough. Bringing a disagreement into another post on another day, under an Anon handle and calling out a poster’s handle on an Anon basis is not how we do things around here.

    • Anonymous :

      I would have liked the article if it hadn’t been written to defend this horrible woman.

  7. I don’t know about this too. Maybe I watch too much hockey but I think I’d be looking for a coordinating whistle if Ibought this.

    Anyone doing the pattern mixing challenge today? I’m on the west coast and not dressed yet. I don’t have a lot of prints. I’m thinking of wearing a mostly black outfit with the one black and white print top I own, and wearing perhaps herringbone tights, which I just bought recently.

    • I don’t know about this *top

    • I think if you did it with a color skirt/pants that might help take it out of sports official territory.

    • Yeah, the stripes are giving me a bit of a headache. I like the solid color versions much better.

    • Maybe if I had this top for the pattern mixing challenge. Wear it with a floral skirt?

    • I love the black and white top but, alas, it is yet another posted item that is unavailable.

    • nerfmobile :

      With the pattern-mixing challenge, I skewed it a bit. I have a pair of pants in a large-scale herringbone weave (large-scale as in the individual blocks are about 3/4″ sqaure). It’s black tone-on-tone (matte and smooth), and sort of “digital” – the blocks are composed of squares. I’m wearing it with a sleeveless blouse with a tie that ALSO has a large-scale herringbone – just about the same size – but its a print in more of a “scribbled pencil” feel. The blouse colors are brownish-burgundy, mauve-pink, and sort of beigy. To pull the different colors together a bit, I then have on a cardigan in black and white/cream zigzags.

      The color matching isn’t optimal in this outfit, but I found it amusing to pull together the different herringbones. I’ve never worn these two together before (and probably won’t again), but it’s fun for a day.

    • Senior Attorney :

      I am loving the challenge today! With the caveat that my checks-and-stripes outfit is definitely not everybody’s cuppa tea: BR black and white gingham ankle pants, black and white striped knit top (it’s actually a Lands End rash guard but I love it as officewear), small silk scarf that matches the pants, black ponte blazer, black and white high heeled Doc Martens saddle oxfords. Cobalt bag for a pop of color. (I actually feel like I’m sort of doing all the challenges for the week in one outfit today!)

      • I love your outfit! I did something similar: black and white polka dot blouse, leopard print cardigan (yes, I realize I have worn leopard nearly every day this week), denim trousers and a coral belt/earrings for a pop of color. Normally I’m a little more subtle with the pattern mixing (belt/shoes), but it’s fun on a Friday.

  8. I’m resigning from a management consulting position and have been struggling with the related logistics.

    I’m planning to give two weeks notice. I don’t want to travel the last week because I won’t have access to expense it. Is this reasonable? The alternative is waiting until I move off my current project; I should be local for a few weeks after it.

    My manager and I don’t work in the same location or even talk regularly. I know that my options are email and phone, but I’m personally more comfortable doing it over email. How much does this matter? FWIW I’m not going to be staying in the industry when I leave this position.

    • Triangle Pose :

      Do it by phone, follow up with email with thank you for the opportunity, etc. Leave on a good note, which is easier if your manager hears it in your own voice instead of one of a million emails that does not convey tone. Say you’re happy to provide 2 weeks notice to wrap things up and transition projects but you will not be able to travel during this time.

      • I don’t think you can do this. You are suggesting she call her manager today and not be staffed on her current project effective tomorrow as she is on a travel project? That will definitely not be leaving on a good note! You need to give your team some notice to find someone else in your slot and transition on-site with the team. 2 weeks is very short but possible. But you can’t then say that you can’t travel for both those weeks. MAYBE you can request to not travel week 2 but I think even that is likely to create bad feelings.

        • Triangle Pose :

          I misread, she will not be able to travel during the last week. She didn’t say she was on a travel project now…
          Two weeks notice is not very short, it is pretty standard.

    • Your firm will have mechanisms in place for submitting final expenses. They might opt to not have you travel on your last week anyway but part of the separation process with HR will be to wrap up things like this.

      Submitting over email or phone doesn’t REALLY matter that much in the grand scheme of things; however, doing it over the phone is the right thing to do and I would suggest doing it. Of course email is much more comfortable, but I think it’s pretty feeble. I was in your exact position a few years ago (resigning from a consulting position with a manager I rarely spoke to) and I just asked her if we could connect over a call. Our conversation literally lasted 5 minutes. I think she knew what was coming as soon as I requested the phone call so it was actually a pretty easy conversation.

    • Also a consultant. Do you have a corporate credit card for expenses? If so I wouldn’t worry too much about not traveling due to expenses. They may not want to you travel that last week but it probably depends on how quickly they can transition someone into your position and the dynamics of your team. You may need the two weeks on s!te to wrap things up (if you are only opposed to traveling the last week due to the expense question). I would definitely have this conversation over the phone rather than email.

  9. I’m looking for a black cocktail dress that is appropriate for a work-related event–it shouldn’t be hard, but it is! FWIW, I’m on the tall side and don’t feel comfortable wearing anything that skews too short with a whole bunch of my superiors at this event. Any tips?

    • I rented the Tory Burch Lurex dress from RTR for a similar purpose and was very happy with it. It looks sort of dull in the pictures but has a subtle sheen in person and you can really dress it up with accessories (I did high heels and very blingy long earrings).

      If you want something to purchase, maybe check Talbots – they tend to have good options that aren’t too bare.

    • The MM Lafleur Annie is plain but can be dressed up with accessories, if that’s what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for something less work-appropriate, I like the Dress the Population Gwen Midi.
      Just search “Nordstrom midi cocktail” and there’s a lot of great options

    • RTR actually has search filters where you can drill into Mini, Mid thigh, and knee length dresses- I usually select knee length and havent had a problem yet.

    • Mrs. Jones :

      I rented the Shoshanna Giana dress from RTR for a fancy party, and it came well below my knee (I’m moderately tall). It’s also fairly modest so would be good for work.

    • I’m tall and ASOs tall line works for me.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      Maggy London makes some nice truly-knee-length cocktail dresses that are fully professional but still pretty.

  10. Office denim :

    I am not rocking our new Denim-OK dress code. Flat boots, boot-cut jeans, sweater. I’m warm, but it’s very much a C+ sort of look. It seems that the Cool Kids are all skinny jeans and heels. I’m not down with that (my feet would freeze — they need tights or socks in the winter / my cold office), but maybe when it warms up (largely due to warmth of footwear concerns than heels).

    What are other options for looking better in denim? I have gone with pretty dresses + tights (b/c it’s less office-y than sheaths + tights), but what else can I do with denim?

    I have a good sized boot wardrobe (ropers, western, Aquitalia Rumbas, Sorels), but they all seem to work better with dresses/tights or look more “weekend” with jeans (or night out) or something. All bought prior to dress code change, so I’m trying to shop my closet vs buy anything new.

    • Triangle Pose :

      You would freeze inside your office wearing jeans and heels or ankle boots? I understand for outdoors but that’s so cold for indoors. Can you wear skinny jeans and socks and ankle boots? Or wear tights under your skinnies.

    • I always feel more out together with a blouse/button down and jeans vs. just a sweater. Maybe try layering or do a blouse and open BF cardigan?

    • If you like corduroy, that has become a substitute for denim at my company for Friday jeans day. It gives you more options. I do navy cords from Talbots.

      • I like corduroy, but if she doesn’t feel like a cool kid in what she has on, corduroy is almost certainly not the answer to that. Esp. not ones from Talbots (don’t get me wrong, I like Talbots just fine, but there is nothing there that will really help her feel “cool”).

        • Absolutely fair- I do feel something has gone really wrong with women and fashion when someone feels like their only good work clothing choice is tight jeans and high heels. I’m not clutching my pearls but I do think this is not in general a look that gets you respect ( in an ideal world it wouldn’t matter but we aren’t in that world).

          • Not saying that at all. Saying it’s not “cool.” It’s a perfectly reasonable and professional look.

          • It’s like learning how to dress professionally if you’ve never done it before (recent grad / career change / etc.). Denim is just starting over. With the same closet. And trying to convey the same professionalism with what are probably formerly weekend-only clothes. IMO much more frustrating than just wearing a Theory suit (b/c suits are IMO easy once you can find one that you like a fits).

    • Boots go over your jeans – that’s a start. If you’re trying to look more fashionable, boot cut jeans are not actually for wearing boots- they’re for wearing with heels- try a pointy, low kitten heel (no socks) with your bootcut jeans.

      Throw on a blazer with your jeans – that will help!

      If you have to boots, try something like the Rag and Bone Harrow or Margot with skinny jeans, cuffed on the bottom and no show socks. You can also wear ponte skinny black pants tucked into your boots.

      • Wait — what? This is blowing my mind that bootcuts aren’t for boots.

        I would never tuck pants into boots — that’s an Extra-from-Hamilton look (or maybe it is just too pirate for me).

        • If you’re trying to look like the cool kids, then yes- wear your boots OVER your skinny pants. This look works as long as the pants are slim through the knee – when there is extra fabric bagging out or loose above your boot cuff, that’s when you look like a Hamilton cast member !

          Give pinterest a search for “boots business casual” and you’ll see what I mean!

          • Hahaha 2009 is calling and wants this post back
            Don’t tuck your jeans into tall boots. Just no

          • Uh, thanks?
            It sounds like a step above where she is now, which is tucking her boots up under her pants. And I didnt say she had to wear TALL boots- if she tucked slim jeans into moto boots or cuffed straight jeans above ankle or chelsea boots, that would be fine.
            Depending where she is, that 2009 look might still be in fashion. And as we have discussed as nauseum this winter, depending what she wears with it, tall boots can be a classic and work appropriate way to stay warm.

          • OMG — I thought that boots under pants was always OK. Like that is what cowboys do. That is what men do. How is it not OK??? Are taller boots only OK with tights now???

    • the cool kids (female variety) at my work wear dark jeans with ankle boots – some have heels, some don’t. The jeans often have a small cuff. They are sort of “skinny boyfriend” styles. They wear these with looser layers on top for the most part.

      Better than describing the look, I found a link that shows pics, which I will post separately.



        this one is super specific about the cuffed look

      • So if you have some BR Sloanes or Loft Julie pants, can they not be worn with boots at all then? It seems like they would work with cute flats or heels (but not boots or ankle boots).

    • Haha, maybe you work for my company, because my company just did the same thing. I generally just don’t bother – I wear what I wore before the change, but with slightly more flamboyant colors sometimes. I have found that a dark wash trouser type jean with heeled ankle boots looks pretty good. You could also wear a blazer with more fashion-forward styling with a shell underneath.

      They did it to try to keep young people longer, but I think the highly rigid, hierarchical culture does more to keep young people away than the dress code.

    • Anonymous :

      Skinny jeans and booties.

  11. Another management consultant here. Does your company require you pay taxes in your home state and travel state?

    • Requirements for where taxes need to be paid are set by the states – your company doesn’t get to make rules about where you are required to pay taxes. Some states, like CA, do require that consultants pay taxes on income earned in CA even if they are not CA residents; your company may have processes in place to help meet these requirements.

  12. In house interview :

    I have an interview for an in house position at a large tech company. Should I wear a suit? (Currently in biglaw so suits is what I would generally wear to interviews). Or is that out of touch?

    • Triangle Pose :

      Wear suit unless told not to. I’m in-house at large tech company and the legal department and C-suite still interview suits and we are barely, slowly, slowly transitioning to the more formal side of business casual (no ties! OMG). If it’s a large enough company, whoever was the scheduler for you is likely a junior talent acquisition person and you can shoot that person an email “I’m planning on business formal dress for my interview, can you please let me know if there is another dress code for Thursdays? Thanks, X”

    • A friend of mine interviewed with the fruit tech company. They told her to wear “smart casual” to the interview. That was for an entry level engineering position though, I can imagine law would be different, but I guess it’s best to ask them.

      • I was like fruit tech? This is something that I’ve never heard of! Then i figured it out. Hahhaa

    • It is very possible that the legal department veers more formal than the general business; have seen this in house in many places. Suiting separates would be highly appropriate if you are nervous about going full business formal (which can appear a bit stuffy).

    • I think suits are pretty much always appropriate for legal interviews, even if you might stand out in a bad way on an engineering interview. I have friends with legal jobs at well-established companies (Facebook, Microsoft, IBM, etc.) and they pretty much all wore suits to their interview even though many of them wear jeans to work regularly. A suit might be out of place at a start-up but I wouldn’t worry about it at a large company.

    • I’d ask the recruiter or whoever is scheduling your interview. I’d probably go separates or a less formal suit with a fun blouse/something where you’d look put together if you take your jacket off if you’re unsure (stay away from the black suit & pearls look that was popular in OCI).

    • Anonymous :

      Inhouse at a large (Fortune 200) ag company, and it would be considered a serious faux pas here not to wear a suit to an interview in the law department. I have seen one or two candidates do it and the feedback suggested they did not view the job prospect, or the department, seriously.

  13. Immigration :

    Immigration reform seems ever more likely and it could have disastrous consequences for the many families, including mine, that are depending on family reunification policies staying intact. If you have time and interest, I urge you all to call your senators and representatives to express your opinion on immigration reform. Here is the script I used:

    “Hi, my name is ___ and I’m calling from zip code ____. I’m calling to urge Senator ___ to oppose any immigration deal that eliminates or drastically reduces family reunification. Thank you.”

    Of course, your personal interest may vary, but immigration reform really will affect everyone so I hope you can give it your attention!

    • Thank you. My heart is breaking for the PEOPLE, whether documented or not, that are at risk in this whiplash climate of politics. Please know I support you and your family and I will be using this language to call my Senators (though my senators are s-h-*-T-#-0-1-3-$ Yeah, that’s right, I said it. Get that past your monitor.

    • I would be most in favor of extending / regularizing DACA arrivals and maybe for spouses of visa holders (that would allow them to work here). There are a lot of worthy parties here and in this climate I think that there will be some line-drawing (vs just expanding the pipeline).

      I don’t think I’m clear on what family reunification entails — is it just extended family members (like sponsoring aunts / cousins / parents / grandparents)?

      • Immigration :

        It’s spouses, children, siblings, and parents. It takes years and years to get each one of those people a green card, although the fastest categories can be only one year. We expect to wait 15+ years for my sister to get a green card and have already been waiting 6; it is not an option for her to just live her life in my home country since she is permanently disabled and will not always have her current caretaker (who is pushing 75) around. Some of those people can then sponsor their family members to come, but the wait is even longer if you file as a green card holder than it is if you file as a citizen.

        One thing that gets lost in the political drama is that you have to file paperwork attesting to your ability to financially provide for your sponsored family members, including attestations to certain amounts of assets in the bank. “Chain migration” is not all about giving “freebies” to immigrants, and in fact, they can be denied green cards if they are expected to become a “public charge”, or burden on the state. There are already numerous protections to lessen the “burden” of new immigrants on the U.S. economy.

        • Yeah but come on, plenty do get freebies and it’s ok if actual US citizens are against it? How – well Indian family after Indian family sends a kid or 2 here for an IT job, they get an H1B. Self supporting, great. Eventually green card, then in 5 yrs citizen. They turn around and sponsor mommy and daddy and it doesn’t take them 10 yrs to get here – sometimes not even 5. They put in their 5 yrs on green card and on 5 yrs and 1 day they are citizen and on 5 yrs + day 2 they are at the social security and Medicaid offices bc even though their kids can support them, hey why not get more for the family coffers while we can even though we came to the US as retirees and never worked 1 day here. Let’s take it out of the hands of US citizens working right now. I realize SS and Medicaid need fixes but since that’s not on the agenda – sorry family sponsorship has got to go bc they do take money from the system the moment they can, whether they need it or not.

          • “Indian family after Indian family?”

            Shame on you.

          • You can be as PC as you want it’s happening. I’m Indian and no my parents didn’t do this nor did they bring relatives and get them on the public dole. People brag about it at parties etc that they’re getting free money. As East Asian friend in Cali tells me it’s even more organized there as pamphlets are handed out at cultural centers in native languages to make it even easier for people to get on the take. Sorry I don’t support it and thus I barely support the 800k DACA kids staying and not as full citizens bc we know they’ll start sponsoring and this same BS will continue with their relatives taking away from SS benefits that’ll be available long term to those of us who actually played by the rules.

          • You can’t get Social Security payments unless you (or a spouse/parent) have actually paid into the SocSec. Same with Medicare eligibility, which depends on the ability to receive Social Security.

            So, no – the parents of children who become citizens can’t draw on SocSec or Medicare just because they became citizens. Sounds like you’ll need a different reason to rationalize your feelings.

          • Not true. New poster who is Vietnamese Am and this is a known scam in my community. To be fair though IDK if it’s SS + Medicaid or welfare + Medicaid but rest assured they are taking even though they live with their doctor sons. It’s not like it’s an issue of poverty, it’s an issue of grabbing “free money” to help our family. Not as vehement as the prior poster but I’m against it too.

          • They “declare” poverty by transferring all their assets to their sons/kids and then tell the US government once they’re here that their net worth is 0 and thus they need these benefits. Back in the day there were home interviews etc (like 20-30 yrs ago) so when they visited you in your doctor son’s mansion, they knew you had a means of support and you weren’t getting welfare. Now it’s become looser and I think it’s just a paper application. So to all of you whose families came 100 years ago and now think that poster is such a racist, she’s detailing a known scam amongst current immigrants.

          • +1. Find a new justification.

          • de-lurking for this :

            From a family of Indian immigrants here, and I have never seen this. Both parents each sponsored a sibling to move to the US (with their under 18 aged children). In a total of 11 immigrants and 2 US born children, not one has ever used government services such as Medicaid/SNAP/etc. And we’re not from well-off Indian families who can support us from the motherland or whatever you think is going on. We’re from families so poor that my parents’ generation has stories about not having enough food to feed everyone every day. This extended family has produced: 1 ivy league grad working in consulting, 1 nurse who saves lives every day, 1 entrepreneur who created 50+ jobs with the business, 1 doctor in training, 1 engineer, 1 IT professional, and 2 retail managers. Even for services we may have legitimately qualified for (such as Medicaid when my parents were first starting out with lower than minimum wage jobs or unemployment when my uncle lost his job, etc.) we never used those services because we were wary of being stamped the way you’re doing now and didn’t want trouble from our white conservative neighbors and coworkers (from the deep south). Instead, my uncle’s family moved back in with us when he lost his job and could only find a temporary one paying $5/hr. Now that the generation of American born children is grown, this same family contributes $15,000+ per year to charities/programs that work to alleviate poverty because we’ve lived it and don’t want others to have to continue enduring it. That’s a very far cry from being a drain on the system or whatever you think we are. The idea that people are abusing the system “the moment they can” is the complete opposite of my lived experience because we did everything we could to avoid having to turn to others. Shame on you for projecting racist stereotypes on a community of hardworking, honest people.

            (I hate “performing patriotism” and respectability politics, but if you’re going to come for my people, you best not miss.)

          • And how old is this story? Pretty old if minimum wage was $5/hr. How many Indian immigrants do you know who’ve come in the 2000s for IT jobs whose parents quickly followed? A huge number of those parents ARE on the take. Sorry you don’t want to believe it. There is info out there on this and organized networks of this for East Asians in CA. But believe what you want to believe, I’m glad we’ve got trump in office for at least a few more years.

          • Aren’t ‘actual us citizens’ going to be affected though? I don’t think they can legally exempt only some US citizens from sponsoring family members from abroad so it would affect all US citizens not just DACA kids.

          • Yes and so what? They can also not bring relatives over.

            I don’t understand why the stories of – this is how many family did it 1000 years ago matter. It’s great that America was wide open but I think the world situation has changed and the need for resources has changed. Tell me when your relatives came in 1970 or 1890, was healthcare such a big deal? Were public schools overcrowded? I’m thinking no. Now it’s an expensive good and people are coming in and taking from Medicaid which should prioritize US citizens already here. Same with public education. Sure maybe we need a different healthcare/education system but that’s not on the agenda in any meaningful way – so until it is why not tighten up on the inflow of people? You realize other countries do this all the time right? People go on about high quality of life in Europe esp Scandinavia etc – you realize it’s in large part bc they’ve made it harder for outsiders to come in, right?

          • to be fair, these “scams” whether true or not, are undertaken by many pockets of US citizens and aren’t limited to immigrants who are here thanks to the reunification programs.

            It’s a fraud problem, not an immigration problem.

          • Citizens are already eligible for these things and have paid into these programs to some extent even if they have a spotty work history. The aunties I meet at Asian parties who came here at age 65 and never worked a single day haven’t paid in one red cent.

          • de-lurking for this :

            For anon @ 12:26
            no, this is just 5 years ago. That was part of the problem – the only job he could get for 6 months was BELOW minimum wage, so his family wasn’t able to afford rent (yes, people who are here legally and have become naturalized citizens also work those jobs when they can’t get anything else). And yes, he accurately reported that income on taxes even though he was paid in cash – something so many native born citizens don’t even do.

            I’m shocked to hear that people are aware of rampant scams of this in their communities (yet aren’t reporting it to the authorities?). In my community, one woman mentioned this and was socially shunned by the rest of her circle until she made it clear that didn’t actually do it. Yes, we’re cheap and will go to great lengths to save pennies, but I’m not aware of any Indian community member or family/friends of mine who have abused the system in this way.

        • For your sibling, she can visit on a visa, no? And if a visa overstay doesn’t try to work, what is the realistic chance that they are ever caught? Or can she just visit and visit and visit . . .

          I think having status is important for working and benefits (in-state tuition, drivers license). Is is really that important for non-working non-driving people to have?

          • Yes. Wow. I’m shocked at this q. Yes, so her disabled sister doesn’t some day get deported.

          • If she’s going to live here permanently, she needs medical insurance. They’ll likely want Medicaid for free as described above – she needs status. Even if they’re willing to buy on the insurance market, pretty sure the application requires a SS number. Plus given how aggressive enforcement is getting, do you think just planning to overstay is ok and you’ll never get caught? What if someone tips off ICE?

          • Immigration :

            My sister cannot visit on a tourist visa while her application to move here is pending. We have no intention of wanting “Medicaid for free” for her medical care.

      • It means that immigration only extends to spouses and minor children.

        I am a product of family reunification policies. My mother came here as a teen along with her parents and siblings – three were under 18, two were not. They came here because their uncle was here and had already established residency and a steady job. Of that family, we are architects, engineers, university professors, lawyers, dentists, professional athletes, police officers, parole officers, teachers, the list goes on. My dad came at 21 with his sister to go to college and post-grad here. I and my family would not be here were it not for these policies.

        I was born in the US and my relatives all became naturalized citizens, so there isn’t (I hope) threat of being deported. But there is threat to the American dream. And let me tell you – it’s real! My parents grew up extremely poor and in just *one* generation were able to find wealth and success and stability in the U.S. Seriously – my mom had a two room house with dirt floors. She is now retired with a beach house. This is an amazing place!!! I tell my story because you definitely know people who are here due to “chain migration” (actually nearly everyone in the current administration benefited from those policies, but 100 years ago). You may even be a product yourself. You know us as your coworkers and as your friends and neighbors.

        • Similar story and perspective – it’s like you took the words out of my mouth. Thank you for sharing.

          • Moonstone :

            Yes, same here. My mother and father were sponsored by their respective aunties in the 1950s. My mother sponsored her sister some years later and my father sponsored his sister. Everyone was able to achieve a middle class life in the U.S. after leaving the crushing poverty of their childhood homeland. This is America.

    • Anonymous :

      I am a lifelong Democrat and I fully support the immigration laws being suggested by the Republican Party. In fact, they don’t go fa enough as they don’t yet address horrific H1B abuse.

  14. Taming the mane :

    A few weeks ago, someone posted about a heated ceramic straightening brush that they use to smooth thick, wavy hair. It sounds ideal for my hair. I haven’t been able to find it in the archives–does anyone have any recommendations?

    • I added it to my cart because it sounded so cool! I haven’t bought it yet, but here’s the link.

    • I have a prior version of this one; it works great to straighten and smooth my thick hair (no waves, but occasional “bumps).

  15. I’m a member of a philanthropy/ social organization. Someone recently posted a job opening at her firm on our group’s FB page and invited anyone interested to message her. I’m interested. Any suggestions for how I should word my FB message? I don’t want to seem too formal given the forum we will be communicating on, but I want to come across as serious and professional. I should note that although we are both members of this organization, we have not met in person.


    • Hi Susie,

      I saw your post about the xyz position on the Org page and would love to talk to you about it. I’m in abc role and it’s exactly what I’m looking for. Is there a good time for you to have a call?


      Bessie Sue

  16. Symphony Dress Code :

    This weekend I have tickets to a rather unusual performance. Our local symphony is performing the soundtrack to a movie while the movie plays on a screen above them. I’m really excited about the event (movie is one of my favorites and I haven’t been to the symphony since I moved here) but struggling with the dress code. Do I dress like I’m going to the symphony with dress, heels, and fancy jewelry? Or is this something people are more likely to dress down for? Thanks!

    • I think you can really wear whatever, but most people will probably be on the less fancy side. Id be wearing black jeans, boots, and a cute blouse.

    • These are so much fun! This sort of thing is big in LA because we love to watch movies whenever possible.

      Typically way more casual than the symphony but more formal than the cineplex – which leaves a wide range! I usually dress like I’m going out to a nice/trendy dinner. Good opportunity to experiment with a fun outfit!

    • Regular symphony goer here – most people do not dress up for the symphony unless it’s opening night. Your regular business casual attire will be fine. No jeans no tee shirts but nice presentable clothing is fine. No ball gowns for a regular night.

      (Though my one friend wears a Zappa t shirt to the symphony but he gets a pass because he’s “eccentric.”)

      • Senior Attorney :


        And our season tickets are in the terrace section and I’ve seen plenty of eccentric tees up there! ;)

    • If it’s at night, in the typical symphony performance space, feel free to dress up. But more like smart casual than cocktail.

      Though I’m biased and our orchestra events run the gamut from jeans to suits.

      And our orchestra has been doing events like that (playing the score to a movie in real time) for about 3 years now. It’s considered part of the regular seasons of events, so people just wear whatever they’d wear to an see something at Orchestra Hall. So, I guess I’d suggest average dressing for the venue and dressing for a movie.

    • Honestly, you can wear anything. Most people will be smart casual. Not fancy dress, jewels. Even the regular symphony doesn’t have much high brow dress these days except among the donor set at season openers etc… This is because most classical music lovers are on the more casual side. And this type of event will attract more movie lovers, ho are casual.

    • Baconpancakes :

      Even the opera is more smart casual than cocktail most nights. (It doesn’t help that a 6pm Thursday or Friday performance means everyone came straight from work.)

      Most of the symphony/movie performances I’ve been to have been at Wolf Trap Amphitheater, which is outside and most seats are on the grass, so we definitely wear jeans to that. If it was in a symphony hall, I might wear a nice sheath dress, same level of formality as office wear, but maybe with office-inappropriate shoes, a little more skin showing, some bling. I might even wear jeans with a silky top and heels and bling.

    • Anonymous :

      My husband and I have gone to several events like this. Both times we chose to dress up somewhat (sweater dress and boots for me, slacks and button down for him), but saw plenty of people dressed much more casually than us, including some in cosplay or in casual fan gear.

    • Anonymous :

      I regularly go to the Symphony in Boston and smaller surrounding cities and wear business casual. People go in jeans. I am mid 30s and usually one of the youngest people there, too.

    • Anonymous :

      I go to things at the Kennedy Center, and see people in jeans all the time. I would go for smart causal, but I think you are fine in anything

  17. Best headphones/speaker/mic for conference calls when you’re working from home?

    • I use this one and it’s pretty comfortable and the clarity is really good: Logitech H800 Bluetooth Wireless Headset with Mic. Also I believe you can wear it while charging it.

  18. Ever had a friend (platonic girl-friend) yell at you? I’m a laid back kind of friend – give few opinions bc I mostly don’t care how others live and also don’t think my judgment matters. So this friend of 10 yrs has screamed at me twice in like 6 months. Hadn’t heard from her lately – called to make sure all was ok. Turns out a relative is in the hospital and she and her dad are doing a lot. I get it – she’s stressed/tired. She then gets into how the guy’s own nuclear family isn’t doing anything, pretends to be close but isn’t etc. And all of this is punctuated every 2 min by “I don’t want to get into it” – and yet she keeps getting into it for 10+ min even though I’m not asking questions bc IDAF about her relative’s family drama. So I make the right noises – ie “sounds tough/dramatic/take care of yourself” and she SCREAMS at me about how there’s a lot going on and she doesn’t want to get into it. Best I can describe it – if this was on Facebook it would be vague-booking at its finest.

    As I’m thinking WTH why are you yelling at me, I’m NOT prying and trying to get off the subject you keep raising?! And then it occurs to me she’s done this before recently re work too — where she went on and on vaguely and there I had the nerve to opine that her boss is terrible but it’s not uncommon to do whatever she was doing to be a bad boss. And she went off on me screaming re lack of support – clearly she was wanting a yes woman.

    Ever happened to you? I have so few friends in the course of life (I’m everyone’s co worker/acquaintance – and no ones real true friend) that I feel like I defer and put up with a lot when 1-2 people want to be my friends so as not to be totally alone. Ugh

    • Yes, and I ended the friendship. I’m also one for whom friends have never come easily, but I won’t tolerate people yelling at me.

      • Did you say anything? Or just kind of back away/stop calling etc?

        • Senior Attorney :

          I don’t let people yell at me. Don’t care who it is. I might give a second chance but if it happened more than once I would end the friendship.

          If you don’t want to go that far, you could just hang up/walk out at the very first moment she raises her voice. Each and every time. But don’t let her scream at you.

          • Rainbow Hair :

            Yeap. No one gets to yell at me. I make an exception for my toddler but even with her I leave the room.

        • I just stopped talking to her. Tbh, she didn’t try all that hard to reach out either!

    • I’m not sure I totally follow, but at least in the case of the family member, is it possible your friend is just under extreme stress and not really able to control her temper right now?

      • Friends yelled at OP twice in 6 months – once about family drama OP wasn’t asking about; once because she perceived OP as non supportive because OP sided with friends boss.

        Re the relative – maybe it’s stress and you give it a pass. But re the job – what’s the excuse there? Keep an eye on this OP and don’t be anyone’s doormat just to keep a friend.

      • Senior Attorney :

        And also? I call BS on “not really able to control her temper.”

        I bet you a million dollars she’s not screaming at anybody at work because if she did she’d be fired.

        • lol. I was just thinking this. People scream at and mistreat people who they think will take it — in this case the laidback friend who just gets over everything. Highly doubt this woman would have the nerve to scream at her boss or say at the doctor writing her a script or dentist working in her mouth. Nope there she keeps her stress in check.

    • Me: blah blah blah

      Friend: YELL YELL YELL!!!

      Me: OK I’m gonna let you go now *click*

    • Since you admit that you have almost no friends, I would look carefully about how you might be communicating…. You may need to carefully re-evaluate things if you want to build strong friendships.

      You reminded me of when I yelled at a close family member once. She is the type who is not always the best ….listener. When I was caring for an ill family member and TOTALLY STRESSED, my relative (who had no experience with this situation) started telling me what I was doing wrong and what I should do. I’m sure that’s not what she thought she was doing, but that is what I heard. And it pushed me over the edge. And I just lost it.

      Sometimes you just need to vent. Especially when you have very stressful things going on. But there are some people who aren’t good listeners and think that you are actually asking for help when all you want is someone to say “that sounds hard. I’m sorry you have to deal with that”. Instead, they ask a lot of questions, and give their opinion about what you should do. While sometimes this is appropriate, sometimes it just isn’t.

      Or maybe she is just really, really stressed from these issues. I understand those times. And being a caregiver is something none of my friends can relate to, so many of them abandon me. They can’t imagine dealing with these things, or assume it isn’t that hard, or they are scared to imagine it happening to themselves. I have learned this is common. Most friends stink in hard times, I have learned.

      Or she might be a horrible person. But ….

      • Op here – nope I can confidently say that’s not me. I don’t give a lot of opinions bc I don’t have a lot – I freely admit I know nothing about this. I’m fine with venting but yelling even when stressed? IDK I don’t yell even when I’m mad — I just don’t talk.

        Maybe you think I’m horrible bc I have no friends but it’s not like I’ve lost friends in life. Some have just been friends for a season and then you end up living on opposite coasts. Everyone I’m around tends to like me bc I’m chill and I’m everyone’s favorite acquaintance/co worker – but I know I’m bad at taking it to the next level to make them long term friends.

      • +1

        OP writes: “I’m not asking questions bc IDAF about her relative’s family drama. So I make the right noises – ie “sounds tough/dramatic/take care of yourself”

        So you DGAF about her issue, and assume that by “making the right noises” you are being a supportive friend. Most people can tell when they’re being heard v. when someone is just “making the right noises.”
        I’ve ended friendships (albeit without yelling) with friends who make the right noises. Rethink your strategy.

        • I have some friends that have the OPs personality. I don’t think she should be friends with anyone who yells at her. My comments is mostly about my struggles to connect with people who are like the OP. I am not an extrovert but I will do my part in a conversation and ask questions and I find that friends that sounds similar to the OP don’t do their part in carrying on the conversation. I ask a question, they answer and the conversation ends unless I ask another question. Their lack of opinions generally also make it hard for me to identify commonalities to create a bond thus these people are nice and wonderful to be around but I don’t crave their company like I do with friends that do have more opinions.

          I am not saying you, the OP needs to have 1000s of opinions to make friends but you could see if you can use common interest (hobby, activity, etc) as a way to identifying people with whom you can bond with to develop a friendship.

        • Anonymous :


          IDAF is kind of harsh to say about someone who is a good friend that you care about, who is clearly upset…. right?

          I definitely distance myself from friends who give off the IDAF vibe, as you can’t fake it well

  19. I’ve done this in Chicago and people were mainly pretty casual. might depend in the movie, I saw home alone. my kids were dresses and I wore what I had worn to work that day.

  20. I just had a woman come into our office for a meeting with my boss and I guess she thought I was the assistant because she asked if I would make her coffee.

    Um, no.

    • This is when being a clueless woman comes in handy – uh I would but I barely know how to do that . . . [and if you want to convey seniority – “since my assistant does it for me”]

    • “Sure, there should be coffee in the break room. Just go down that hall and take the second left”

      • Equestrian Attorney :

        Yes, I’ve had this happen and used the “coffee is down the hall” strategy successfully. I have also had this happen when meeting a particularly annoying client in the presence of a senior (male) partner. Thankfully male partner immediately jumped in to say “actually, equestrianattorney did most of the work in the file. Why don’t I get you coffee while she presents the contracts?”. It felt so nice to have someone else deal with this for once.

      • I would say this over pretending I don’t know how to use a coffee machine.

    • Pushing back a little – I can see doing this to staff, but shouldn’t you offer a guest a drink?

      • See but most people who come to my office ask me if there _is_ coffee, not request that I make it for them. The person asking was the rude one here.

  21. In totally non-frugal Friday dreaming, I have a bonus coming, and I’d like to put some of it toward a fancy bag. I usually use a Lo & Sons Pearl or a Cuyana Zip Tote- both are simple and functional and awesome for day-to-day. I’m curious about getting a conpicuous consumerism kind of bag- like a Celine luggage tote or belt bag, or a Goyard St Louis tote, or even the little gucci disco bag. Are all of these too 2015-2106 and will they look dated? What’s the IT Bag of next year?

    • haha, I don’t know about the IT bag, but get thee a loewe hammock or puzzle bag :D

    • I’m not much of a fashionista but the Celine and Goyard bags you mention look very dated to me (I think they’re really associated with an era that’s even earlier than 2015-2016…maybe 2013ish?).

      • +1

        The problem with an “it” bag is that it becomes very noticeably dated. You’re better off getting a more classic bag that wasn’t everywhere 2-4 years ago.

    • pugsnbourbon :

      I know almost nothing about bags, but what about a classic-looking bag in a color you love?

      I did look up the Celine belt bag and it’s pretty, but I’m a little bummed that it’s not an actual fanny pack.

  22. Thanks for the links to new recipes on the afternoon thread the other day. I took one of your suggestions and roasted two chickens rather than one, and then for the cold chicken we had the southwest chicken salad from smitten Kitchen. My teenagers LOVED it – a salad! The dressing is yummy- Greek yogurt with honey and oil and taco seasoning (I made my own mix). Really good. If you get a chance to check it out, do.

    • Do you have a link? That sounds amazing but I can’t find it on the website.

      And I’ll trade you this one, which is amazing:

      • that’s because it wasn’t smitten kitchen, doh! I was reading a lot of the recommended blogs and got them mixed up

        I have totally made that oven roasted chicken shawarma! great rec, it’s really good. I made it with saffron rice and served with store-bought hummus. My kids also wolfed that down.

  23. Sloan Sabbith :

    Until Kat said it in the challenge email, I absolutely did not consider ribbed tights to be “patterned.” If they are, I am a PRO at pattern mixing.

    What are you all wearing today? I’m in a light red and grey-brown striped swing dress from Gap (horizontal stripes, I do not get vertical stripes), black ribbed sweater tights, black Ona flats, a salt and pepper open front cardigan, and a fantastic scarf I got at the Library of Congress that has Thomas Jefferson’s “I cannot live without books” letter on it that’s cream and black. I love it- the sweater really pulls everything together.

    • Sloan Sabbith :

      Forgot the question…What are you wearing for the challenge today? Anyone go for some really daring patterns?

    • Baconpancakes :

      I’m pretty basic b*tch in my outfit today. Black jeans, striped pink tee, black blazer, yellow butterfly patterned infinity scarf, black Chelsea boots. I don’t own many patterns!

    • Yes, patterned tights are my “out” today because I don’t really have a lot of patterning going on in my closet. I’m a dedicated wearer of solids. I posted above in the “referee shirt” post – black/white patterned shell worn with a gray cardigan, black skirt and black herringbone tights.

      It’s not bad but it’s not my happy place like Monochromatic Land was.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        I felt so put together in my monochromatic outfit. Which carried me through yesterday where I hated my outfit from the moment I left my apartment and then had a wardrobe malfunction all freaking day.

    • All black tights with an argyle pattern, a black top with some “patterned” beadwork on it, and a brown/black skirt with a super tiny hounds tooth print.

      I started off wearing a black shirt with a large black and white leopard type print on the front. It sounds crazier than it looks but I wasn’t too sure about. DH took one look and said it was too much pattern for one look so i swapped it out.

      *All neutral with a pop of color has been my favorite so far

    • I don’t own many patterns and am terrible at mixing them, so I did my best with: blazer with extremely subtle blush and white pattern, white cable sweater, brown cheetah print scarf, black jeans, and brown heeled booties.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        That sounds super cute!

        My outfit lasted an entire hour at work before I came home sick. Now I’m in plaid pajamas. No pattern mixing. Just patterns everywhere.

  24. Sloan Sabbith :

    Hive! Search “ A F P C O care package” (no spaces) on your search engine of choice and send a care package to a soldier! You choose four items to send (free) and Crown Royal puts together the packages and sends them- I recommend lip balm and coffee. :) I love this.

    • I did it but I think it’s just a clever way for Crown to get your email address. Fortunately I have an ecommerce email account that I largely ignore.

    • I served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and so often, organized care packages like these were well-meaning, but ultimately not wanted or used (I hate to tell all those well-meaning groups that soldiers almost never need socks or sunscreen)…but this one seems great! Consumables are always appreciated.

      • Sloan Sabbith :

        I work with vets and they’ve told me that lip balm and not-terrible coffee were the two things they wanted in the Middle East. So I was also happy to see that this one seemed culturally competent.

        And that it didn’t include baby wipes.

        • It’s weird that people said they didn’t like baby wipes, I guess if you’re on a FOB it’s different but if you’re on a combat outpost that’s a pretty solid shot at getting a shower

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            I think someone said that baby wipes are great but that they didn’t need more because they have so so so many of them stored from the last 16 years. :P

      • Thank you for your service!

      • haha just came here to say the same thing! When my husband was in Afghanistan he was like “please, no more socks, for the love of god”

        This one seems decent but there’s no chewing tobacco or nudie magazines….

    • Senior Attorney :

      Thanks! Done!

    • Searched it :


      • Sloan Sabbith :


        • Searched it :

          I hope you didn’t take that as snarky. Just thought i’d help out fellow confused-rettes like myself.

          Today is a 3 cups of coffee kind of day

          • Sloan Sabbith :

            Not at all. I wasn’t entirely awake when I posted it and had a headache so it doesn’t surprise me at all I messed up the spelling.

    • I’m unable to locate, can you post link?

  25. I love this sweater and want it in dress form.

  26. Rainbow Hair :

    Hey, have any of y’all done the whole “oh no there are flamingos in your office” fund raising thing? What about the one where people’s ties get cut shorter for money?

    My office has a high tolerance for silliness, and wants to do a low-key fundraiser for something, but I sort of fear the level of distraction.

    • Public shaming for failure to donate is TERRIBLE. Combined with workplace pressures and politics, I would hate the person who organized it.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Thank you! This is a good point. At least I can say with certainty that it wouldn’t be one of those weird “I don’t want to support XYZ charity because it doesn’t align with my beliefs” situations (which I’ve been in) because the charity is basically the charitable arm of our company, but…. no that’s a solid good point.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          Update, Cat. Ideas person told me she woke up this morning thinking the same thing, so she deleted it off the list. Appreciate your read.

    • Honestly, those remind me of school fundraisers, not really office fundraisers. How about fundraisers where people pay $5 and get to wear jeans (this has been a big one in the law firms I have worked at) or some sort of themed attire, like favorite sports team? Or have a raffle for a prime parking spot? Maybe do some sort of competition, like a chili cook-off or trivia/game challenge?

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Jeans fundraiser sounds perfect for our office! There are other more officey suggestions floating around (like a cook off and some more staid challenges where your department/team can win bragging rights and maybe a trophy) but these two were the weird ones I wanted to get perspective on. I think Cat’s point was really solid and I raised it to the ideas person.

    • pugsnbourbon :

      Is the idea that you pay a certain amount and they take them away? Does anyone just … keep the flamingos? Maybe dress them up for the holidays?

    • Really want to know how this works… does it involve filling someone’s office with plastic flamingos? I hope so.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Filling it with flamingos sounds glorious! This is just a single flamingo-ing. You pay $nominal to send a flamingo to someone’s office, and they can pay $nominal to have it removed. Of course all the $ goes to the charity.

      • Our town high school sports do this. It’s called “getting flocked.” You wake up and there are 100+ flamingos artfully/hysterically arranges in your yard. You can pay (whatever team) to come take them away and you can pay an additional amount to go flock someone else.

        It isn’t random, it’s usually friends of the team etc.

  27. Not ready to slink off into the sunset :

    I’ve been reading Corporette for many years and am now semi-retired in my early 60s. Single, no kids, very happy with my life, and usually mistaken for early fifties at the oldest.

    I’m wondering if anyone knows of any blogs that might be a good match for me. I am moderately active (mostly yoga) and love to travel. Still interested in workplace norms and I have 4 nieces in their twenties and I like to stay current with what young adults are doing & thinking. Lifelong learner, not afraid of technology.

    Any suggestions for me?

  28. Nylon girl :

    How about girl of a certain age blog?

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