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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
These royal blue pants could be an unexpected workhorse if you’re looking to add some color to your wardrobe. This shade would pair beautifully with all of your classic neutrals (black, white, gray, camel, navy), but you could do so much more. I’d be thinking about wearing it with a sky blue, like this sweater from J.Crew.
The pants are available at Nordstrom in sizes 14W–24W ($119) and 2–16 (sale price $70.85).
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Towels
I saw someone shout out waffle towels recently. Have they held up and remained color fast? Any favorite brands?
go for it
H & M home, colorfast, going on 4 years
Cat
Company Store, have held up well going on 3 years now, we bought white so no comment on colorfast.
Anon
I haven’t bought towels from them, but the sheets I’ve bought from the Company Store in the past few years have been terrible quality. It’s too bad because I used to be able to count on 10 to 15 years out of their sheets and now we’re looking at less than two before they are full-on torn.
OOO
Recs for a salad for Easter brunch that pairs well with ham?
Anonymous
Arugula, goat cheese, slivered almonds, maybe an apple for crunch, and a simple acid forward vinaigrette.
Anon
https://bellyfull.net/pea-salad-recipe/
Anon
My comments keep disappearing, but look up Classic Pea Salad.
Anon
Our family favorite for just about anything is a pear gruyere salad. Spinach, sliced pear, and walnuts or slivered almonds. Toss right before serving with a dressing of equal parts maple syrup, apple cider vinegar, and oil, and top with grated gruyere.
anon
Classic potato salad?
Cat
Like, a leafy salad, or a side potato type salad? I like tart flavors with ham since it’s sweet, so maybe something with orange or grapefruit involved?
Anon
A classic layer salad is good for this. Bonus that you have to make it ahead of time. Eating Well has a nice version that lightens the dressing by substituting yogurt. I like to go half and half with the yogurt and mayo.
Dressing for (business casual) success
How do you think you convey “executive presence” without necessarily wearing a suit?
I’m going to be moving back to my former city soon and getting promoted (yay on both counts!), and in the next couple of years will be up for partner, so I was thinking a bit of a wardrobe refresh is in order. I think I have historically leaned towards what this board would describe as Sunday brunch type dressing, and also my current clothes all feel a bit dated or frumpy.
Our offices pre-COVID were business casual or sometimes business casual w/ jeans instead of trousers. Post-COVID, it seems to be a bit more casual, but business casual still prevails. Not in the legal field so no court appearances or anything. Traditional suits worn rarely. In that kind of environment, how would you dress to project authority and executive presence? How do you draw the line between conservative brunch dresses vs work dresses in a business casual environment?
Dressing for (business casual) success
Also, for some additional context: I would describe my style as classic/preppy, and I wear a plus size.
Anne-on
I think the difference between brunch and work dresses are primarily in the fabrics/accents/cut. Wool/Linen – almost always a work dress. Sheath or slight a-line – mostly work dress. I’d avoid too much floof – tiers, ruffles, large or garish prints, puffed sleeves, etc. I don’t want Anne Shirley doing my taxes.
If dresses are too difficult why not just swap to pants or skirts? I’d also check out the Docket Blog, she does a great job of what I’d consider ‘normal’ office wear – not super duper trendy but nicely fitted, current enough for work, and something that wouldn’t look out of place for a more senior exec in a business casual office.
Anon.
My go-to uniform for important meetings is a sheet dress with or without non-matching blazer, for example, a navy sheet dress with coral blazer, a patterned dress with a blazer picking up one of the neutrals in the pattern (grey, navy, black, dark purple). Alternatively, pants in a solid neutral color with a patterned blouse and coordinating blazer.
I try to coordinate accessories like belt and shoes (black, brown, navy).
Anon.
If jeans are allowed, I’d go for a dark wash, patterned or solid blouse plus casual blazer.
Anon
Not sure how biz casual you will be, but I like to wear dark wash jeans and a blazer, with a shell or even a nice (good quality, pressed) t-shirt underneath. I find this to be dressier than most in my biz casual environment.
Eliza
+1
Anonymous
“Executive presence” to me would be the quality of fabric of your clothes and clothes that fit very well (get them tailored if needed). Add good glasses (if you wear them) and polished grooming (hair, skin, nails)—this doesn’t need to be glamor make-up and “done” hair. You just want to make sure that your glasses and general grooming are the same high quality as your clothes.
Anon
I think for executive presence you can also lean on really on point grooming. Good hair, makeup, and nails.
Flats Only
This, and add consistency to it. Having hair and makeup that look polished and don’t change much day to day will always give the impression that you’re a put-together, in charge grown up. Choose a look that’s simple for you to keep up so you don’t have a visible cycle of “done up” days vs. “rolled out of bed” days.
Anon
This. And I think a simple look for hair and makeup is not only more feasible on a day to day basis, but also says executive more than a more elaborate look would.
Ellen
You are in a good position. Get quality clothes, and never mind quantity. If you are to be executive fodder, you must look the part. I had a personal shopper at Nordstrom’s outfit me soon after I was named a partner b/c I did not want to have to wear stuff I had from college and law school any more. At the same time, I did not want things to fashionable b/c those would go out of style next year. She outfitted me in muted grey and blues, with a splash of red (which my judge personally favors). I also got more then a few pairs of pumps (then with 4″heels, tho my new pumps are just 3″as I age out of the 4″ heels.)
Once you look good, you will have little difficulty attracting men, tho many will look at you as an ATM. Once you smell out guys like that, dump them fast!
Anon
When I think of executive presence, I think of more tailored, “stiffer” clothing, rather than soft, fluffy, flowy, ruffly clothes. I would look for things with architectural elements and avoid knits (except sweaters).
I agree that grooming — fresh haircut, neat nails — is important. So is making sure that your clothes are in good shape, and also pressed or steamed so they are wrinkle free.
Anon
I’m general I think it’s easier to convey authority in pants – I’m sure this is partly cultural internalized patriarchy but also because many more casual dresses are flippy or flowy. I do a lot of pants with a nice t shirt and blazer and loafers or pointy toe shoes.
Anonymous
Hello, we might be the same person! I, also plus sized, have basically three uniforms: blazer with dark wash jeans and shell, with either sneaker or heels; shorter jacket with wide leg trousers and high heels; and sheath dress with coordinating jacket. I also have found that suits can be helpful here – not so much the black polyester suits of my junior associate days, but suits on different colors. For example, I have a navy suit from jcrew that I wear with the sleeves pushed up that looks business casual, not court formal. I think exec presence is also very much about having good shoes and good hair and makeup.
Anon GC
My office sounds very much like yours. I am at VP level, although not C-suite and I generally mirror the C-suite women so I would start there, assuming those exist at your company.
My general uniform is (1) dark, straight leg jeans with nice top and a blazer; (2) classic work pants – by which I mean full length and in a dark color – with a topper that is not a blazer unless I have an important meeting (wearing the nice pants and a blazer clearly led people to think I was interviewing!). This is where I wear cardigans and sweater blazers. When it gets hot, I wear an a-line dress with a blazer because sheath dresses are not friendly to my shape, but they are very clean a-lines with no ruffles or flounces. People at the director level and below often wear nice sneakers but they read too casual for my position. I no longer wear heels but nice flats or loafers give me the look I want.
And I second (or 3rd/4th) the people who said grooming matters. Nails, hair, make-up, minimal but present jewelry. It is ridiculous that matters but it definitely does.
Anon
I think good shoes – something with done structure and polished looking – helps a lot. I also think it helps to take care with your layers – if you’re habitually cold keep nice blazers or a cashmere wrap / sweater; don’t have a shapeless sweater that has been hanging out in your office for years. I also find that some kind of personal style conveys authority. We have a partner who has a bit of a bohemian style – but it is always a thought out outfit and it is very her, so it projects confidence rather than looking too casual. So I would put a bit of thought into what you want your style vibe to be and get versions of that style you love and that are of good quality. Also a great coat / jacket goes a long way.
Coach Laura
I would recommend the blog LagLiv @blogspot. She’s a big-law partner who was previously an SEC lawyer. I think her outfits are both executive presence and fun. Kinda makes me wish I wasn’t retired.
Coach Laura
I should add that she has whole posts about how she and her stylist craft her wardrobe. Very helpful.
Anon
The Fold. Get 1/2 pieces and work your way from there.
Anonforthis
I missed yesterday’s discussion about O z e m p i c and wanted to chime in to say that I too am O z e m-curious and feeling somewhat ashamed about it. Part of me says ‘this is no different than needing an SSRI to make your brain work properly’ but I also feel like I should be happy with my body as it is…
Anon
I am also really curious about it but having to take it indefinitely or gain the weight back is daunting.
anonshmanon
this. No shame at all, just caution about potential side effects, especially long term.
Anon
It’s a T2 diabetes drug, no? For those people, T2 is often mitigated with diet, exercise, and weight loss. For those people who initially took it, did they stay on it when the T2 need passed? I feel like there is info there.
I have allergies and a kid with a permanent thyroid condition. Neither is because of any self-perceived or perceived by others personal failing (and factually this is never the case anyway) and we can just take our meds without any drama. Why can’t other things be like this? If “willpower” were that easy, we’d never take back abusive partners and we’d all create new good habits we’d stick to or never have bad ones in the first place. I think that we can see that it’s not that easy based on just scanning the morning paper’s headlines.
No Face
Gaining the weight back would be the biggest pause for me. I know people who had great results with surgery and the weight loss made it much easier to get fit and active. But some people may not be able or want to undergo surgery so maybe this can be the same thing. Take the meds and change your lifestyle, then go off the meds?
anon for this
The conversations yesterday and today have been very thought provoking. I’m definitely curious about them and have struggled with weight my whole life. I lost 40 lbs using phentermine when it first came out and probably jacked my metabolism permanently, so I am also very cautious about signing up for something long term.
Anony
Honestly, wegovy has been a game changer for me. I’ve struggled with my weight my entire life, and always felt hungry when I tried to lose weight. Now I’ve lost 9% of my body weight in the last 3 months. It’s given me the ability to reset my diet, portion size, and even mentality about food. I still have another 25lbs to go before my BMI is normal, but even if I don’t get all the way there, I will be really happy.
My advice is ignore the voices telling you to be ashamed and do what makes sense for you.
Anon
I’m really curious about it as well. I do have a similar conflict though, but at this point, I feel I’ve tried so many diets and “lifestyle changes” that always end up reverting to poor habits and I gain all the weight back plus some, so I’m willing to give anything a try. The results do seem to be impressive. However, I’m also definitely wary of side effects given I already have GI issues to begin with–but not enough to not want to try it.
I’m also super frustrated that my employer health insurance specifically excludes medication prescribed for weightloss from all of the plans they offer. If I have been consistently overweight/obese since childhood, how is that not a medical issue that needs to be addressed and if medication (together with lifestyle) is perhaps the most effective way to address it, then why shouldn’t it be covered?
Anonforthis
It feels similar to the way that my work healthcare plan doesn’t cover ADHD treatment… even though it would make me a better employee!
I can’t do the calorie counting thing because I don’t have a great relationship with food and it gets quite obsessive quite quickly. I’m doing the ‘30 plants per week’ thing and feeling healthier for it, if not any lighter.
Healthcare in Texas
How can a real insurance policy (i.e., one that meets the ACA definition of insurance) not cover mental health? Isn’t that one of the ten essential benefits that all policies must cover?
anon
ADHD doesn’t technically fall under the mental health umbrella. It is a neurobehavioral disorder.
Monday
Parity in mental health coverage is the law, but it’s one of those laws that is only really “enforced” through litigation. Insurers are violating it constantly.
Anon
It’s been a while since I’ve worked for a company that did this, but I did when the ACA first came out and the amount of things that companies could grandfather out their coverage for was pretty astounding. I thought I was going to have no copay/free birth control, but no such luck…. still regular price.
Anon
There are also huge differences between self-funded employer insurance plans and fully-insured plans. Many large employers (including government employers) actually self-fund their health benefits, meaning the employer directly pays for the healthcare. Many of those still use a third-party administrator. Other employers, especially mid-size employers, pay a premium every month to an insurer, and the insurer then pays for the healthcare. Self-funded insurance plans may not be subject to all ACA “essential health benefits” requirements, but they may be subject to different ERISA requirements.
Anonforthis
I’m not in the US so the ACA doesn’t apply – but yes, it treats ADHD as more like dyslexia than like anxiety. I can get treatment for the anxiety that’s exacerbated by the ADHD but no treatment for the ADHD itself (although some colleagues have managed to get diagnoses covered to rule out other causes of executive dysfunction). I guess that’s the parallel with weight – it would cover investigations and medication for treating something that being bigger than I might be would exacerbate, but not medication to help with the weight itself.
Anon
You can’t just take the meds and not make the lifestyle changes that seem to have failed you.
Anonymous
Nope. But the meds make it possible for many people to make those changes which you would know if you spent more time listening and less time judging.
Anon
+1
Anon
I’m pretty sure everyone on this thread already knows this. Medication is a tool that makes it easier to make those lifestyle changes. I would encourage you to read some of the comments on the thread yesterday talking about how the medication has helped folks turn off food noise.
anon
I don’t feel like you need to feel shame about wanting to change your body in some way, particularly if it’s going to benefit your health overall. While there are many good aspects about the body positivity and body neutrality movements, I think the unfortunate side effect is that people are now feeling almost worse if they want to make some changes!
Anonymous
What a weird take. Don’t worry–last time I checked, there are still a few folks willing to give pressure against body positivity.
Anon
That doesn’t mean there isn’t pressure in both directions.
Anonymous
Yeah, and it’s so even in this culture, especially for women. Nothing remotely comparable.
Anonymous
I would suggest checking out the commentary from doctors about this class of drug, it’s very eye opening. Lots of doctors have YouTube/various social media where they post videos. It’s really changed my view of the drug, I didn’t realize how it worked and how it’s not exactly great to put into healthy bodies, and the shortages it’s causing for people with diabetes and other conditions that actually need the drug.
Anon
I don’t think this is the same as taking antidepressants. Some people need antidepressants to function normally, get out of bed, and live their lives. This seems like it’s more about aesthetics. That being said, you do you. I don’t really care what people do but I think they should be honest and not let people assume they look a certain way naturally or due to diet/exercise. I have the same views on plastic surgery. My only concern about this drug is potential side effects and possibly raising the cost of the drug for those who actually need it to control their diabetes That should be fully covered under insurance. If you are only using it for aesthetics, you should pay out of pocket like you would Botox.
Anon
I’d argue it’s more about wanting mobility and to stop the relentless. vicious judgment fat people face than aesthetics. Aesthetics is way too facile.
anonshmanon
I don’t really understand how it’s your business how someone wants to present themselves to the world, and why you think you are an authority on what is a legitimate vs phony use of medication.
With the caveat that I hope we have moved on from straight up lying about diet or plastic surgery, like celebrities in the 90s who pretend it all comes down to drinking enough water.
Anonymous
I read this to be the same as the celebrities who are just drinking water. I don’t care who among us takes it, but I wish the celebrities would own up to it.
Anon
Why is it my business how someone wants to present themselves to the world…well because people lie about it and present this image of perfection which is impossible for 99% of the population without medical intervention, whether that’s Botox, fillers, implants, rhinoplasty, etc. This can have harmful effects on impressionable people and make them feel insecure and develop mental health issues. Also I never said I was any sort of authority. This is just my personal opinion. This board gets worse all the time.
anonshmanon
I agree with you on the problem (also on the issue of limited supply of medications), just not on the solution. It has harmful effects because we treat thin, attractive people so much better. I think requiring a thin person to walk around with a disclaimer “I am not actually thin, it’s the medication” changes nothing about the judgement we give each other for not all looking like Jennifer Aniston.
Anon
Are you saying that obesity is a health issue? Otherwise, it’s pretty clear that medication for health issues trumps medication for aesthetics.
Anon
“I think they should be honest and not let people assume they look a certain way naturally or due to diet/exercise.” Totally agree. Logistically though, should they wear a sign around their necks or hand out cards? Maybe we could design some sort of patch? Also, I’ve had Lasik. How should I let people know?
Anon
A scarlet “M” for “modified”.
Anon
Not the Anon above. I see what she’s driving at.
Recently, Hilary Swank a Mojave’s that she was pregnant with twins at age 48. Good for her. Did she owe people details? No, but the message was really deceptive: all these women were so excited that it could still happen for them and they have all this time and girl power. The reality is that it is almost impossible for her to conceive naturally and even to conceive via IVF. Those are almost certainly kids conceived from donor eggs. No shame. It’s her life. No judgement. But acting like healthy twins at age 48 is easy-peasy definitely creates problems.
Likewise, if it’s medication enabling people to lose weight, being honest about it enables other people to know what is possible for them. Women already face judgement for not being able to lose weight with diet and exercise; that’s not going to get any better when a bunch of people drop fifty pounds without trying and grin and say it’s walking twice a week.
Anon
Announced not Mojave, good grief autocorrect.
Seventh Sister
I do appreciate when famous people are honest about how (or why) they lose weight, though it’s all marketing for their personal brand at some level.
When my kids were tiny, I remember getting enraged at some actress who was quoted in a tabloid that the baby weight had just melted off from nursing! Um, surely the round-the-clock nannies, personal trainer, and private chef had nothing to do with it?!!! For the rest of us, it just doesn’t work that way, especially if you are me, a petite-ish woman who gains all of her extra weight around her waist and has a full-time office job.
Though I’m never quite sure if she’s listening, I do explain to my daughter over and over that celebrities have literal teams of people that work on their appearance, an appearance which is super important for their job (esp. if they are women).
Anon
This is exactly my point. Don’t walk around as if you naturally achieved a certain aesthetic. We all know there are health related concerns but the majority of comments seem to focus on the stigma with being overweight and the health reasons are just a bonus. There’s nothing wrong with doing something that “improves” your appearance or makes you feel better about yourself. Just don’t pretend it’s from “drinking water” or dieting. And you don’t have to make a public statement but if a friend asks or comments, I hope people are honest. My friends have all been upfront about the procedures they’ve done and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Anon
Ok but did Hilary Swank put out a public statement that she got pregnant without fertility treatments and that everyone else can do the same? I don’t think so. Just stating the fact that she’s pregnant or that she’s happy about it is NOT making any implication about facts outside those. She doesn’t have to say, “I’m pregnant and this is how long it took and these are the interventions and I know some people can get pregnant or grow families in other ways but that’s not my experience……”
Just like with these medications, how are you saying people shouldn’t just walk around pretending like they drank more water? Most of them are not wearing t-shirts or anything saying “I lost 100 lbs by drinking water!!!” They’re just living their lives. No one owes others explanations about this stuff.
Anon
Yea but without an explanation, you’re contributing to unattainable beauty standards, at least naturally unattainable. If you’re ok with being a part of that, then so be it.
Anon
Anon at 2:07 — Okay, but what do you want people who have lost weight to do? Tattoo on their forearm how they did it? Wear a shirt all the time with a disclaimer that they’re not that weight without XYZ other steps?
Most people who are using these medications are doing so because they are at risk for serious diseases. I just disagree that someone who has taken steps to improve their health and then is just living their life is akin to Seventeen Magazine photoshopping all their pics.
Am I lying to the world by taking an SSRI and undergoing therapy but not constantly announcing to everyone I meet how I’m not an anxious mess due to those interventions? Is that ableist somehow? Just living your life and not constantly volunteering your health information to every person you meet is not lying. It would be different if the person were asked and they lied about how they lost weight, but I’m seeing a lot of people implying or saying that just the fact of taking the medication is somehow dishonest.
Anon
It’s not that hard to use your words, especially when talking with friends or chatting with colleagues. “I graduated debt free because my parents paid for college.” “This medication works well for me.” “Therapy was a game changer when I had postpartum depression.”
We all have things with struggle with and it’s not some monumental ask to be upfront about it and what helps.
Anon
In a much less emotionally laden example: I’m a runner and part of a few run clubs. We check in with each other on training plans, goals, workouts, monthly mileage, nutrition, all that.
I don’t pretend that I just randomly wake up and win my age group. We all know who is putting in 40+ miles a week, locked down their nutrition, and cross trains. And it’s very much – if you want to hit those goals, here is what it takes. If you don’t want to hit those goals, that’s fine too. Maybe lacing up once a week is the goal.
Anonymous
Hope your judgment is keeping you full. None of us owe each other explanations of why we look the way we look. Do I have to roll up plump and tell you it’s the IVF hormones or skinny and explain its grief? Weight isn’t just aesthetics for many of us and even if it were, what’s it to you, you nasty baggage.
Anon
Your comment communicates a lot about your understanding of what it means to be overweight. One, that it is something entirely controlled by diet and exercise when the scientific research on this increasingly shows that individuals are genetically predisposed, that even after diet and exercise individuals more often than not return to their baseline weight. Finally that losing weight is a complex endeavor and highly individual often relating to stress, hormones, metabolism, gut health, etc and that these factors are often determined not just by genetics but by early childhood and adolescent conditioning (for example, there is research that children who were given antibiotics often have poorer gut microbiomes, which can in turn affect weightloss).
Being obese is a health issue, not an aesthetic issue.
Anon
But severe obesity can cause health problems. It’s not just about “aesthetics.”
Anon
I’m skeptical that doctors are prescribing this just for aesthetics. It is not that easy to get insurance to cover it, for once! I’m also not sure it’s evidence based to work well unless it’s addressing something wrong?
anon
“That being said, you do you. I don’t really care what people do but I think they should be honest and not let people assume they look a certain way naturally or due to diet/exercise.”
Wait what? Setting aside all of the rank ignorance that clearly underlies this .. recommendation…Why, exactly? So no one gets the “false impression” that the person is Morally Good and Self-Disciplined enough to not be overweight? Holy god, please refrain from talking to people.
Anon
Right! This attitude is wild.
Anonymous
I’m not taking it now because I’m TTC but plan to take it after pregnancy. I’ve struggled my whole life with this and if someone will help I’m all for it.
Anon8
The thing I don’t understand about the new weight loss drugs is that you have to take them forever for the weight to stay off, right? I guess if you don’t have side effects that’d be okay, but it just seems like it would be difficult long term for a variety of reasons.
Anon
I want to push back on this a little. Lots of people take lots of drugs forever. For example, I take a beta blocker every day. Taking a once a week injectible would actually me way less of an inconvenience.
Anon
Agree. Taking drugs “forever” is what will give me “a forever.”
Anon
+1!!!!!!
Anon
Yes I will take Humira or something like it forever in order to keep my joints from disintegrating. I am overweight and not a candidate for the weight loss drug, but I don’t judge anyone who needs a drug to keep their body functioning the way it should, and that is what this is all about.
Anon
I actually don’t think we know that- the drugs just haven’t been around long enough for long term studies People do regain if they only take them for a few months and stop, but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that taking them for a few years does lead to enough changes in habits that some people can keep most of the weight off for a while. I think it will depend a lot on the person and their particular issues with food and weight. I agree that many people will have to take them forever, though.
Monday
As I mentioned on this thread yesterday, the manufacturer itself is expecting that patients should and will stay on these drugs permanently; they explicitly said so in the case of children who are prescribed them in the latest APA guidelines for kids (saying the kids should remain on these meds for life). If even they anticipate weight regain after the medication is discontinued (just as what happens following a diet regimen) I think the public is being discouraged from optimism along the lines of this comment.
Anon
Yeah, I agree that taking them forever is the expectation, my comment was more in regard to whether there’s no benefit if you have to stop because of side effects. As someone who has been on multiple medications for pretty much my entire life for several chronic health conditions, I don’t understand why people freak out so much about the very idea of taking a medication forever, but I do really get why people want to stop drugs that make them feel lousy, even when they have huge benefits. In this case, it seems like fear of having to take it forever is keeping people from potentially benefiting.
Monday
I too have a medication I will probably take forever, and I agree that sometimes that really is the best course of action. I’m just pointing this out because it’s well-known in the medical world that all things being equal, people prefer not to take meds; or if they must, prefer not to take them very long; and often don’t take them consistently or for as long as prescribed. So I think transparency about the expectations on this is important since these are known preferences/tendencies in the general population.
Monday
Response stuck in m0d!
Anon Ozempic
Ozempic was approved in 2017. I think that is long enough to know the drug pretty well.
Anon
5-6 years is nothing in terms of long term effects. Not to mention that people with T2 diabetes and people taking for it weight loss are different patient populations. Plus it’s already clear that the newer drugs are way more effective and the first generation drugs will probably be replaced by the newer versions within a few years, which could end up having slightly different effects. So I don’t think we really know how these will affect people in the long term at all. I don’t say that to make them sound scary and say that people shouldn’t take them (they clearly have lots of benefits and I think that outweighs potential risks for a lot of people), just as a scientist who knows how science works and has seen how this plays out with lots of drugs over time. There are almost always things that turn out to be surprising when lots of people take medications for a long time, compared to small groups taking them for short periods.
Anon
not really. it takes years… decades really to do good long term studies about outcomes with enough participants to divide into subgroups etc.
Anon
5 years is an order of magnitude smaller than 50 years.
anon
I was on it for 6-7 months and lost 40 lbs. I came off it a month before my FET so I’ve been off it for about 2 months now. I’ve definitely gained some back. Some of the gain is for sure from the hormones and medication of IVF, but probably not all of it.
For what it’s worth, the moment I’m able to go back on it I will and I will willingly stay on it for life. I’ve fought my weight my entire life. Beyond the physical toll, the mental toll of that fight is indescribable. In those months that I was losing and on the medicine I’ve never been so clear headed in my life. It was freeing. Being able to fit in to smaller clothes and like my body more was a definite outcome, but the mental clarity is the reason I would do it again without second thought. I remember asking my husband in the fall, is this how normal people life? Food is not intrusive in every thought?
I agree with your take re: SSRIs. Obesity and my PCOS needs the maintenance and care that any other medical condition does. Further, the weight loss from this may be why my last IVF/FET attempt was successful and I’m currently 7 weeks pregnant. It’s about wanting a better body for the vanity, but the health implications of shedding the weight are so significant to me.
Anonymous
I responded late to yesterday’s thread. I am a smart person, I have lots of common sense. I know what I should be eating vs not eating, and I’ve never consumed some huge amount of unhealthy food. I rarely drink alcohol, I don’t drink juice or soda, I eat a ton of vegetables and lean proteins and drink so much water. My issue is that I’ve always had a fear that I won’t be able to get food again, so I would eat just a huge quantity of food. I don’t know where this fear comes from- I grew up in a house where there was always plenty of food, my parents are/were active and exercised and modeled health eating habits. We would eat ice cream and eat out and occasionally get fast food, along with eating lots of vegetables and proteins. I was captain of my XC and track teams in high school and set records. But, before starting munjaro (same class of medication) I would eat a normal portion of healthy breakfast foods, and still immediately fear that I wouldn’t be able to get other food and I’d go hungry. It’s not rational. I know that. Being on munjaro has cleared up this mental block and allowed me to eat somewhat intuitively for the first time in my life. I can eat a salad with protein for lunch or two scrambled eggs and a Turkey sausage patty for breakfast and feel genuinely satisfied and not immediately plan where my next food is going to come from and think about getting “second breakfast” on the way into work. I’ve been on it for 18 months and have lost 50 lbs and it has been so beneficial to my mental and physical health.
Curious
Congratulations on a wanted pregnancy. It is so hard to wait and wait and hope for a wanted conception. May everything go perfectly :)
Anon
Food and weight are not intrusive thoughts for many people. That is not to shame you, just to explain what is possible.
Anonymous
Duh?
Anon
This isn’t a “duh” for anyone who has intrusive thoughts. I know a few women who have constant intrusive thoughts about bodies – theirs, other people’s – and they truly don’t understand that it’s not normal.
Anonymous
I wrote a post yesterday about having similar intrusive food thoughts. It’s hard to explain and understand if you haven’t experienced it. It’s the same way I don’t understand the relationships between people who have a sister/sisters, since I don’t have one. It’s not good or bad, just a different set of facts.
anonshmanon
I read your post yesterday and found it interesting to learn, so thanks for sharing!
Anon Ozempic
Well, I have lost 30 pounds using semiglutide drugs. Both Wegovy and Ozemp1c are semiglutides, the exact same formulation. Wegovy is approved for weight loss, and Ozemp1c is approved for diabetes, but they are the same thing. There are other drugs in this family, and more are in development. Because these medications are so very expensive, my US doctor prescribes them, and I fill the prescription in Canada. My insurance from the US doesn’t apply in Canada, but still, my out of pocket cost paying a Canadian drug store is less than my American co-pay, by hundreds of dollars each month. I think these drugs are amazing and effective. The side effects take some time to get on top of, but are manageable. I have no side effects now after 2.5 years, and take a low dose to maintain my loss.
We live in a crazy and contaminated food world. Our food supply is filled with growth hormones–even plants are on miracle grow type products, not to mention animal products. We can all buy organic, but only to a certain degree. While I have overweight and skinny people in my family, I seem to have inherited the overweight genes. And, I have food cravings that are really hard for me to manage, despite my best efforts. I have always been a person who works out.
Being thinner has enabled me to have better medical stats, exercise more, suffer fewer joint pains, and of course, feel better about my body–which at size 10 is not skinny. I may be a lifer on these drugs, but that is ok with me. Many people are on medications for a life time.
Lots of people feel they “should be able to do this on their own.” For me, after 30 years of trying to lose weight, I clearly failed at this. Also, I gained weight on a medication, and decided that it was only fair to use a medication to help get the weight off. I still have to think about and work at what I eat, but sticking with a plan is really doable now.
This is one of the best things that I have done for myself, I have no regrets, and I am sure I will live longer and have a better quality of life as a result of this drug. Please don’t feel shame or embarrassment about utilizing this tool for weight loss–the only crime is that it is so expensive, and that our nation suffers from such a high percentage of over weight people. Hug yourself, and do what is right for you, and do not feel guilty or ashamed.
anon
Thank you for sharing this.
Anonforthis
Thank you for this, and to everyone else for your thoughts.
Anon
Question, how does being thin alone help medical stats if people are still eating the same foods or does Ozenpic reduce food cravings? How does it work?
Anon
Apparently, it reduces food cravings.
anon
Being thin alone definitely helps medical stats. It’s a lie to pretend otherwise.
Anon
Yes but just because someone is naturally thin doesn’t mean they should go out and eat a Big Mac everyday. You can be thin and unhealthy and not thin and healthy. I’ve heard so many people argue that they are overweight and healthy.
Anon
They’re not still eating the same foods. If they are, they don’t lose much weight. The way it works is that you have decreased appetite and don’t have cravings for unhealthy food. Many people also lose interest in alcohol. I’m not on one of these drugs, but take topamax for m*graine and have a similar experience. I get zero pleasure from food or drink anymore. It’s just not interesting to me. It’s actually a little sad, as I’m not taking it for weight loss. But it’s really easy to eat a healthy diet now.
anon
You can’t just eat the same to make it work. You have to also make other adjustments. It’s not a magic drug and poof you’ve lost weight. Beyond physical results, it completely eliminated food cravings. I didn’t snack, didn’t turn to food when bored, didn’t want a lot of things either. I described it as fully re-wiring my brain around food.
Also, let’s be careful with word “thin”? The majority of the people who really need these drugs are obese. It won’t suddenly make them “thin.” I got down to 190 lbs. By no interpretation was I “thin” but all of my bloodwork came back in normal ranges after I lost the weight.
Anonymous
This is a great explanation. I think it’s what people call intuitive eating, which I was never able to do before…. The food noise was too powerful, especially my fear of not getting enough food Later. Now, when it’s lunch time, I’m mildly hungry, nit starving. I’m able to take a moment and assess what sounds satisfying to eat. Often it’s something on the healthy end of the spectrum, like a salad with chicken and not a fried chicken sandwich with French fries (which is much quicker to get where I work and is more instantaneously gratifying). I’m able to eat my food slower because of lack of food noise. If you’ve always been able to eat thus way, I’m in awe of you.
Anony
Since being on this medicine, I don’t really crave those unhealthy foods like I did before. I still eat them from time to time, but in much smaller portions and far less frequently.
Anonymous
It you were unaware Americans buying these drugs in Canada is causing shortages for diabetics and really harming people who need the drugs. Some provinces are implementing rules to stop this from happening.
anon
These are very interesting discussions. It is great when people share their experiences.
I’m in medicine. It will take years for us to gather the data on these drugs. But as with every medical problem, it is influenced by genetic and environmental factors, and many people have multiple variables that contribute to their weight gain. To treat weight loss successfully long term, you must treat all the variables.
If you are born with a genetic variation/mutation that will always make you more hungry despite having a relatively fuller stomach or higher blood glucose levels, you may always have this problem and do best with being on a medicine like Ozempic long term. If you have a weight gain issue that is closely tied to your mental health, it is important to figure that out and treat that concurrently. For example, I loose weight when my anxiety gets worse. Many people gain weight when depression or stress gets worse. So people who have these issues, even with Ozempic, may still have problems – or you could do great on Ozempic and rapidly get worse off it when stressors present. But for some people, once you loose weight, your number of fat cells will decrease, and this can cause your endogenous hormones signaling you are full/hungry to normalize. So for people like that – you may do great when you stop Ozempic if you continue to eat a decent diet.
Anonymous
I can’t do this shade of blue with black. Maybe I am too old since I wore it to death in the 90’s.
Anon
Royal blue with black is actually one of my fashion pet peeves. It just looks so outdated!
anon
I agree. Cobalt and black is one of my least favorite ever. This cries out for white.
bananabread
I am making banana bread. One of my kids likes it with nuts, the other one with chocolate chips. Is there a way to make both in one loaf pan (e.g., half nuts, half chocolate chips). They do not like muffins.
Also, looking for any good banana bread recipe!
BB
Yep! Make the batter without nuts/chips, then divide it in half. Add chips to one half and nuts to the other, then pour each into different sides of the loaf pan. Usually banana bread batter is thick enough to mostly keep to its own half. There might be a bit of mixing in the middle. My favorite recipe is the one from Flour Bakery cookbook.
Anonymous
Two ideas:
1) Split the batter and mix the nuts and chips into respective halves. Insert a sheet of wax paper or parchment paper or foil into the middle of the loaf pan. Fill each side, then lift out the insert, then bake as normal.
2) Mini loaf pans could make this easier for future baking days. I’ve seen them for sale just in my usual grocery store.
My family really likes the banana bread recipe in the classic Betty Crocker cookbook (the one with the plaid cover), always with chocolate chips mixed in.
nuqotw
I use the Fanny Farmer cookbook recipe.
You are a rock star for trying to accommodate this one. Some mixing is inevitable but you could try pouring half the batter into the loaf pan, sprinkling nuts on one side / chocolate chips on the other and then pouring in the rest of the batter.
Anon
Make separate batches of muffins.
F in SF
Mini loaf pan?
Flats Only
Maybe make a foil divider that would line the bottom of the pan and then “poke up” to divide the two batters? Assuming our batter is of a “thick but pourable” consistency you might get a middle slice or two that merge the flavors on the edges, but most of it should stay separate.
helloanon
I have mini loaf pans I would use for this but short of that, could you create a foil wall in the loaf pan, splitting the two sides? You could also add nuts and chocolate chips to the batter after it is already in the pan and mix each side carefully although some spillover in the middle of the loaf would probably occur. If you like both nuts and chocolate, that piece is for you!
anon
Oh, I bet they’d love their own mini loaves!
Anon
I would use one of those brownie divider pans and fill half with each batter.
Carrots
My recipe usually makes two loaf pans – can you add the nuts and chocolate after you’ve poured them in? That’s what my grandma used to do, so she could make one pan that was nut-free for my mom’s allergies.
Anonymous
Baking parchment paper!
For a loaf pan you need a piece that’s as long as your pan plus 4x height of pan. First fold length in two – then separate folds at pan height each side of the middle – this makes your divider. Then lenghtwise, to mark the bottom (pan depth).
You use scissors to cut the mid fold from side to pan depth at top and both bottom sides – you tuck each panel at angles on their side of the pan..
Grumpy Employee
I’ve been typing and then not posting about my new manager for a few days now. I keep telling myself ‘benefit of the doubt’ but at this point it’s too much. My new manager often takes my office when they think I don’t know and is trying to get it reassigned, they’re very micromanagey – to the point of requiring written summaries for all meetings (even informal ones that are expressly supposed to be off record), they pride themselves at being excellent at ‘skim reading’ but really that just results in missed details and unhinged emails that miss the point. Do I try and have a talk about why none of this is okay? Hope that this gets better once they learn the ropes? My team luckily has an A+ admin who has been informing me on some of the sneaky behaviour, since obviously this manager is also treating the admins poorly and being weirdly unhinged in their interactions with them.
Anon
Document everything. Discuss with your fellow employees at your level and adjacent to this new manager.
The meetings that are supposed to be off the record: is there a legal or compliance reason for this? I would be very worried if off the record meetings had written summaries. Those are discoverable. Discuss with your legal team – use the phone.
Anon
This is so odd they keep trying to take your office. Do they just not like their office for some reason?
On the skim reading, I have/have managers who I know won’t read more than 3 sentences in an email.
I feel like all my emails to them essentially look like bullet pointed lists now.
Or I explicitly call out that we need to meet so they understand the full details.
I feel like if you like your team and you like your admin, for me personally, I’d try to avoid letting this manager push me out of a position I like. At least in my company managers play musical chairs all the time, so they’ll probably leave for something else before you know it.
Grumpy Employee
Regarding the skim reading, I can of course modify my own emails but they read emails from clients and stakeholders the same way, which is very not okay.
Anon
I missed the aging parent conversation yesterday and wanted to contribute that it is not normal for men in their 70s to be feeling dizzy and to have bad fatigue and constant headaches. I was surprised to see several responses acting as if that’s normal aging. It’s not.
OP, you can’t control what your father chooses to do with his health, but if he asks for help or you have an avenue to help, he should absolutely get a better doctor who can effectively manage his medications and coordinate better with specialists. You also have the right to call his doctors and leave a message expressing your concerns. They won’t call you back or discuss his care with you unless you are his proxy, but they will take the message and factor into their visit.
Things can get better than this, even though it’s not the same as when he was young (I’m speaking from a position of helping one relative with dementia and a parent with severe chronic health problems, so am no Pollyanna). You’re a good daughter to care and want more for him.
Anon
To me, it sounded a lot like dehydration, which no one else brought up. I’ve seen quite a few older folks (70s & 80s) limit their liquid intake because they don’t want to go to the bathroom so often. Fine, but downside is unsteadiness and fainting.
Anon
Pregnant with my first and looking for advice from any ‘rettes whose spouses have atypical work schedules. My job is a 9-5, schedule varies for my husband’s job and he works most weekends/works until late the evening 2ish times/week. His two days off are typically weekdays unless he requests weekends off for specific reasons – which is possible but requires planning ahead (and we reserve for trips/holidays/etc).
We will have daycare 5 days/week and plan dropoff/pickup timing around my schedule (he will support when possible) but would love any advice re: how to think about other parenting and household tasks. Mostly, I am cognizant that I will be on baby duty over the weekends, while he will have more flexibility on his days off. He is extremely supportive and I want to set up the right systems that will keep our marriage and family happy and healthy.
Currently thinking: my mom wants to help and I will enlist her support on Saturday mornings so that I can get out of the house solo. Husband can do grocery shopping/meal prep/cleaning/errands and manage daycare transport on his days off. What am I missing?
Anne-on
I’d buy a copy of Fair Play and explicitly dole out the cards. It sounds like you are going to be almost entirely in charge of the conceive/plan/execute pieces of child care so it’s only fair for him to pick up other cards to balance that out. If you want to just get the cards I think that’d be fine too – it’s truly eye opening to look at all the extra labor that having a child/family entails!
Curious
Yes! This really was a game changer for us.
Anon
awesome tip, I was planning on having us watch the documentary together a little closer to the due date as I expect it will be eye opening for him – will get the cards too!
Anonymous
Why would his days off be free from childcare? Doesn’t he want to see his own child?
Anon
Yes, this!
OP
Of course he does, but his days off are weekdays (and they change every week) so we need 5 day/week daycare. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t spend time with the child outside of daycare hours…
Anon
It seems unfair to me that your days off are filled with childcare and his days off are covered with full-time daycare. I would talk to him about cutting back to at least part-time childcare on his days off and putting some of that money towards weekend help for you. They’re not necessarily easy to find, but there are daycares with part-time options and pay-as-you-go options.
Otherwise I think this is a recipe for resentment. Childcare for a kid under the age of about 4 can be really be a boring slog, and I would be insanely resentful if my husband’s days off he had childcare 9-5 and had the day to devote fully to himself, and I spent my weekends solo parenting all day. Even if you rationally understand it’s not his “fault’ this is so far from equal it’s really not a recipe for a happy marriage.
Anon
I was wondering the same.
Anon
I think planning on having help Saturday morning is a very smart move. Something else to keep in mind if you think it’s too much to rely on your Mom every weekend. Once kiddo was in daycare for a couple of months, I’ve had good luck chatting with the daycare teachers and finding either teachers or aids that want to babysit on the weekends. I especially like that they’re fully trained and know my kid already. So from that angle, the coordination of care might get easier as they get a little older.
OP
Thank you and totally something I will keep in mind!
busybee
I really have no idea why my original response is not being posted, so trying again. I am in a very similar situation. My husband works 8am-4pm for two weeks, then 4pm-midnight for two weeks, then back again. He has two consecutive days off but they switch each week. I work 9-5 M-F. I solo parent a lot. The biggest issue for me is that I don’t get days off. If he’s off Tuesday and Wednesday, our child is in daycare so he gets those hours truly free. My weekends are Saturdays and Sundays, so I have childcare duties while he’s at work. Having a set solo time out of the house is essential. My husband also manages those chores and dropoff/pickups on his days off. He also typically takes kiddo to pediatrician well visits, the dogs to vet and grooming appointments, and other things that can be more easily done on weekdays than weekends. Outsourcing cooking to him has been challenging but I’m working on it! The one thing I think you might be missing is setting aside time for the two of you. It can be easy to become ships passing in the night so you’ll want to carve out some time for dates as well.
OP
Thank you – so so helpful to hear from someone in a similar boat and I hadn’t even thought about time for the two of us.
Anon
Again, why do you have daycare when dad is off work but not when mom is off work? Your kids should be home when dad is home.
OP
I’m confused about why this board isn’t supportive of full time childcare for families with two full time jobs. We both stated that the days off switch weekly, do you know of a daycare that offers that type of flexibility?
Anon
Yah these comments are weird. If people asked them why they “don’t want to see their kids” they’d get very offended. There’s a little too much tit-for-tat sometimes on this board, usually with a negative angle (you have to slog through childcare on weekends, make your spouse suffer, too!!)
Anon
There actually are daycares that have that sort of flexibility. It’s pretty common at hospitals, because this is a normal schedule for doctors. I also know some in-home daycares that cater to more blue c0llar workers where there is flexibility around what days you use it because people who work retail and things like that have their hours change regularly. I don’t think anyone is implying it’s easy to find, but giving up and not even trying to find it seems wildly unfair to you (in my opinion).
If I’m understanding correctly, you’re proposing that you work 5 days and do two full days of solo childcare with a bit of help from your mom, whereas he works 5 days and has two full days off. That strikes me as wildly unfair and is not personally an arrangement I would be ok with. In your shoes I would look for 4 day a week daycare with flexibility on which days you use it so he can provide childcare on one of his days off, and then put the savings towards substantial help on the weekends for you, either one full day or two half days. With the end goal being that each of you is working 5 days at your respective jobs, doing one day of solo childcare and has one day off.
busybee
If you read my post, my husband’s days off change weekly. One week might be Tuesday and Wednesday, another week could be Thursday and Friday. Are you aware of any daycares that allow for children to attend on different schedules each week? Because I am not. Would you tell a mother that if she’s home, her children should be home and shame her if her children are in childcare outside the home? What an odd comment.
Anon
You have it backwards on the gender issue. A mom who did what you’re proposing your husband do would get *more* judgment, not less. Only men can get away with this kind of thing.
Look, in my view fulltime daycare is intended to be used while parents work, regardless of the gender of the parent. This isn’t like a SAHM or SAHD having a mother’s helper come for a couple hours a day so s/he can get some chores done. This is a working parent sending their kid to full-time childcare on both of their only days off while their spouse takes care of the kid solo on the weekends, which (regardless of the parent’s genders) is not fair to either the child or the spouse, in my opinion. And fwiw I have never heard of a mom doing anything like what you propose.
At the very least, if he sends the kid to daycare on his days off, he should take on full-time management of the household, including any chores that aren’t outsourced like grocery shopping, meal prep, cleaning and lawn care. You won’t have time to do both fulltime solo childcare and household chores on the weekends. If he uses his days off to do the bulk of the chores, that makes the arrangement less unfair to you, but it’s still really unfair to your kid IMO.
Btw, as your child gets older, they will notice and complain about the fact that dad ships them to daycare on his days off while mom manages to keep them home. I’d think seriously about whether or not that’s the gender balance you want to model for your kids.
Trish
Your husband will be able to take care of all the phone calls and appointments for everything from doctors appointments to AC repair or taxes. He can be home for the cable guy or the plumber. He can take the pets to the vet. Having a spouse with free time during the week is a Godsend! Starting off with a titfortat won’t help your marriage. It will work if your hubbie makes himself useful on his day off. Live changes and your roles and the money you make will, too.
Anon
@4:15, there are not-infrequent posts on the moms page where a woman is able to get summer Fridays off or go to 80% or something similar and everyone urges her to keep her kids in daycare and relax/get chores done that day
Anon
A one-off holiday or even an entire summer of Fridays is totally different than what OP is describing where this is their consistent plan week in, week out, year-round. And even if it were a full-time thing, the women you’re talking about are still with their kids on the weekends. Dropping to 80% and having the fifth “workday” to yourself is totally different than working five days/week and sending your child to full day daycare the other two days. This man is never going to be with his children between the hours of 9-5. I’ve never heard of any mom doing that.
Anon
Because daycare is M-F. I don’t think she’s saying that her husband will have to send them to daycare, but if for some reason he needs to do something that isn’t great to tote a baby along to, like a doctor appointment, he has the option.
Anon Mom
Because that is basically impossible unless you want to pay for full-time day care that is not being used. Daycare isn’t a drop off situation. You have to reserve (and pay for) a specific schedule in advance (so 5 days a week; Tuesday/Thursday or Monday/Wednesday/Friday). And many don’t offer part time schedules, especially for infants.
It sounds like OP’s husband’s schedule is not consistent such that he is always home certain days. That means they need 5-day a week care. The only reason to insist that the husband take the kid out of the day care that is being paid for is (1) so that he can spend more time with kiddo – and he might chose to do that or (2) to enforce a meaningless sense of “fairness”, while at the same time making it much harder for him to do the tasks she indicates he will be doing on his days off.
OP – This is a situation that will be constantly evolving as your child gets older and your lives change. My only suggestion is to try to balance as best you can, set up a few hours on the weekend when you can get time to yourself, whether with a Grandparent or sitter, and be open to changing it up as kiddo gets older and their needs (and yours) change.
Anon
My kids went to a very waitlisted daycare and we were able to go down to three days a week when my husband had weekdays off. It’s not impossible.
OP
Thank you! So helpful – and thanks for getting it on the childcare side ;)
Anon
You seem to already know this but I just want to explicitly state- this is going to be hard. That’s going to be a lot of solo parenting for you in the evenings and weekends. Enlisting as much support as possible is great- I’d also consider adding a babysitter on Sunday or the evenings. My husband and I view child duty as a full task (we don’t expect ourselves/each other to do other tasks on top of child duty) which is really helpful. So then then household chores need to get divided up during non-child time. If you have a full day of solo parenting then nap time is your union break, not time for you to do household chores.
Anon
Agree with this. It will be fine until the child is 1-1.5. At that point they just need so much more attention during the day that my husband and I switch off (we each get a few hours to ourself and take turns being alone with the kids) on weekend days. It’s mentally exhausting otherwise.
I would make sure as much of the household tasks as possible are done by your husband on his days off and/or outsourced. Groceries, cooking, laundry, errands, cleaning, etc. Fair play is a good idea. Also great if you can have some family help on weekends so you’re not 100% on both days.
Will your husband keep the baby home one of the weekdays he’s off so he can spend time with the child?
OP
Thank you! We have to pay for 5 day/week daycare so we’ll probably still send the baby all 5 days (though husband being avail 2 days/week if baby is sick, etc. will be helpful), but I imagine hours spent there will be lower on days when my husband is off (like 9-3 instead of 8-5, for example). That said I think it’s important to maintain full “time off” for at least one of us to allow for actually getting stuff done – even if it means childcare is not equal across both of us.
Curious
Oh yeah, you are definitely right about the benefits of this schedule when kiddo is constantly sick the first 3 months (and frequently sick the year after).
OP
Thank you – super helpful and yes, expecting it to be really challenging.
busybee
Oh piggybacking off of this because it made me think of something else. Our child is currently 1.5 and I am pregnant with twins. I do not realistically think I will be able to handle 3 young children solo for 50% of the evenings and nearly 100% of the weekends. I’ll be enlisting help for the evenings, whether it’s my mom or perhaps a mothers’ helper. Haven’t fleshed out the details yet, but you might want to consider that if you hope to have more than one child.
My other recommendation is to have a set bedtime for child as soon as possible. Come 7pm I am OFF DUTY and it’s wonderful to have a couple of hours to myself in the evening.
OP
Thank you – super helpful as I *think* we’re planning for 2 kiddos and I am sure our needs will evolve when the time comes!
Anon
I know a family who split this way: mom who was in charge of all kid things during the week (drop off, pick up, meals, bed and bath time, etc.) while Dad was 100% on during the weekend. At first I thought they were nuts but it worked out for them. They didn’t get a lot of time together as a family – but even before baby, schedules were not super aligned. Not having to renegotiate who’s going to do what each day or each week is such a timesaver – I’d gladly take on a greater proportionate share of duties so long as it’s consistent and I can plan around it.
SMC-San Diego
I was (still am but she is now grown) a single-parent so cannot really speak to how to allocate tasks with a partner. However, I did want to chime in on one point: Leave yourself wiggle room and schedule a check-in to discuss all of this periodically because your needs and your child’s needs will change dramatically between ages 0 and 4. Just as an example, I nursed for a year and in my first months back at work trying to schedule any substantial “me time” would have been an exercise in futility. I wanted and needed to be with my baby to nurse to keep my supply up and she nursed a lot. That became less and less of an issue once she hit 6 months and started getting solid food. Similarly, the infant who does not know or care where she is or who she is with will become a toddler for whom consistency and routine might be a lot more important and who needs to run and play during the day – not run errands. (And honestly I was happy for a break from my 2-year old in a way I did not want from my 6 month old.) Flexibility is key.
Anon for this
Strongly encourage you and husband to choose a sleep training method and implement early. Having the baby on a consistent schedule and sleeping well will make all of this more doable.
Anonymous
Where do I buy good decently thick mid-rise jeans for a pear shape with large thighs? My go to for denim used to be Gap, but I ordered like 9 pairs and they all fit weird and were super thin denim and are all going back.
Anon
Talbots. I get the slim ankle, curvy fit if it’s available in the color I want, plain if not.
Anon
+1 I’m pear shaped with large thighs and all my jeans are Talbots curvy slim ankle. The % of cotton varies depending on the fabric, the higher cotton content jeans feel thicker.
Anon
Joe’s in the Honey style, 7 For All Mankind in Gweneviere, Good American, and Lucky Brand has a curvy fit. Lucky brand runs big so size down. Quick complaint that brands have been slow to release straight leg curvy styles. Those of us with a big hip-to-waist ratio want to be trendy too!
Duchess
I’ve been VERY happy with the various J.Crew straight styles. I’ve gotten the 90s classic, the vintage slim-straight, and the curvy vintage slim-straight recently and they’re all a very nice weight and fit me really well. I love a high waist though, and these are definitely high waisted.
anon
I am hippy with large thighs, and Gap has never worked for me. I have had some luck with the curvy cut at WHBM, but they rarely carry them in store. You’ll have to order online.
anon
Eddie Bauer is good for denim that is thick, at least in winter – they have a curvy line I like a lot.
Anon
Look at the fabric content before buying.
Anonymous
That won’t really tell me enough though, right? Like a tshirt and a pair of jeans can both be 100% cotton and very different fabrics.
Anon
Wit & Wisdom is thicker than Gap.
Auburn
What time of day do you workout, and for how long? How do you fit it in? My husband and I have fallen off our workout habit and are struggling to get back into a routine…curious to hear what works for other people.
No Face
6am for an hour on weekdays. I leave the house when everyone is asleep and get back as everyone wakes up. My husband exercises a couple of days a week after work.
We are flexible on the weekends.
go for it
I go to the gym right after (5pm- ish) work 2 days a week for 1 hour, 1 hour saturdays & sundays with variable start times
Anon
Walk or mountain bike every day after work followed by physical therapy. We usually go together and it’s a great way to unwind from the day and connect. On weekends, more biking and for longer. I’m a big believer in mountain biking as the perfect way for women to have more fun and fake more risks in nature.
Anon
Ok, I know it’s a typo, but faking more risks in nature made me laugh.
Anon
Haha! Oops. I don’t feel like a faker when I’m out there?!
Explorette
Haha! I tell myself that my bike is a better rider than I am, so I just hang on and fake it :)
anon
Eager to read the replies, because after 4 years of being a morning workout person, that whole arrangement has fallen apart in the past 6 months, maybe longer. I seem to need more sleep than I used to.
DC Inhouse Counsel
Orange Theory classes after work (5:30pm) 3 days a week and weekend late mornings. I know that there’s zero chance of me waking up early to work out, so it has to be evening for me, and I’m way more motivated to go if it’s a class that I’ve already paid for.
Anon
I walk or ride my bike for transportation. I’m in grad school full time right now and it’s the only way I can squeeze regular exercise in, not to mention it helps work off the frustrations of the day.
Towelie
Early morning pilates 2-4 times/week at a place walking distance from me
Weight lifting in my garage 2-3/week. My partner goes to a gym for heavier weights but I make the home gym work by focusing on more single leg work (single leg RDLs, lunges etc) and having a weaker upper body.
Mid-day walks or hikes on the weekend if the weather is good to get some sun
I walk 10-20k steps/day just in normal life if that counts
Anonymous
I definitely struggle without sticking to a schedule, so I go to a 1 hr fitness class right after work around 5:30-6pm on the 2-3 days I go to the office. Just easier for me to mentally know that since I’m leaving the house to go to the office, I might as well just go to workout classes while I’m already out and about. I also like to start the weekends by going to a Friday evening restorative yoga class, which is held at a studio within short walking distance of my house, so I have no excuse not to go. Weekends are for hiking or walking around a local lake, if the weather is decent. Or even just walking about in the neighborhood – I subscribe to the thought that “some movement, even a 5 min walk, is better than no movement”.
Anon
Jog with the dog every workday morning, long evening walk with the dog, and take him for hikes every weekend. Large, active dogs force you to get exercise!
anon
I work out immediately after work – we assembled a home gym early in the pandemic, and it’s been amazing for me. I close my laptop, get my headphones and a bottle of water from the kitchen, get changed, and then am instantly “at the gym” and can start my warm-up. (My husband makes dinner while I work out and shower.)
My husband works out mid-morning (he isn’t in management and so doesn’t have a lot of meetings). His schedule is more to do whatever morning stuff he’s working on, and when he’s ready for a break, he gets changed and works out then. He usually times it so he finishes just before lunch. We take a walk together (which is his cool-down) and then he showers while I get lunch together.
Anon
Whenever we can fit it in. I’ll do a 6pm workout during the week and log back on at 8pm. I’ll also workout around 10am on the weekends because that’s when my workout class is offered.
Anon
Ingo for a run in the middle of the day. I just don’t get out of bed on days I plan to do it in the morning and if I plan on after work I sit down on the couch and don’t get up again. Doing it during the day makes it a treat because I’m leaving work to do it.
Anon
Early morning. I roll out of bed and am out the door in 15 minutes for a walk, then either weights or yoga depending on the day. My dh works out at lunch time, or the early evening depending on what he wants to do, and when we can eat. I find working out at lunch time to be very difficult, I could do an evening yoga class, but definitely not a body pump or other energetic type workout.
anon
5 am OrangeTheory class four days a week. If I miss a weekday class, I pop in for a Saturday morning one. I also do a Sunday night yoga class, ride my horse twice a week, and try to get in a bike ride or run outside of all of the other stuff (hit or miss).
Very obviously, no kids – also no spouse. I am a morning person (I am working by 7 am by choice).
OOO
At the gym from 6-7 am twice a week. Pay $$$ for a personal trainer so that’s my motivation. I’m not a morning person but it’s nice to get it out of the way. Home in time for DS’ morning routine.
Anon
I work out after my kids go to bed, so starting at like 8/9 PM. It’s not ideal but it’s when I have time.
Anon
I workout for ~1 hour 4-6 days a week.
Mondays I run after work (6PM)with a friend (and then we alternate hosting dinner)
Tuesdays I meet a friend for body pump at 7AM
Wednesdays I play in a soccer league after work (games at 6 or 7 PM)
Thursdays I go to “power yoga” (half lifting half yoga) at 5:30 PM. This is the only workout I do solo. I only go on weeks I don’t have Thursday after work social plans (so about half of the time)
Fridays I usually don’t workout
Saturdays and Sundays are fun workouts: a long bike (20ish miles) or long run (5-10 miles) in the park, playing tennis or pickle ball with a friend, a hike, a race, etc.
Childfree, live in the city, strictly 9-5 job though I am also in grad school.
It really really helps that I mostly workout with friends or teammates, I need that accountability! I also compete in races pretty often (usually 1-2 half marathons, 2-3 triathlons a year) and training is fun for me.
Anonymous
If I’m doing a class at the gym or horseback riding, like 6 pm usually, but that means I have to leave work at 5 and then work another few hours in the evening after I get home (lawyer). I do HIIT type workouts at home and do those late, like 9 or 10 pm. Husband and I will also go on walks in the evening either before or after dinner (Noxgear vests are key). I am not a morning person and there is no scenario in which I am working out in the morning. Horseback riding is a solid 3-3.5 hour chunk of time (between travel, tacking up, riding, untacking) and it means that’s all I’m doing fun that day. Others are about an hour.
Anonymous
Peloton for at least 30min x 3 days a week – M/F in the morning as close to first thing as I can, then W after work again with as little of a break as is possible. This is really the only thing that I’ve been able to stick to – going on 2+ years. I started off with 20min, and worked up to 30min. I do not like it at all, but I get it done.
Anon
I WFH and have a not very intense job, so I work out during the work day. Long walk outside in nice weather, walking on the track at the gym or doing a yoga class in poor weather. Takes about an hour either way.
I am not a morning person and have never in my life woken up early to work out, and with kids it’s really hard to not be home in the early evening hours. I also dislike working in the evenings because it wakes me up and interferes with sleep.
Curious
I swim or go to yoga Wednesday nights 7-8 when kiddo is already almost asleep or asleep and also swim during nap time on Saturday. These are the only two lap swim times when toddler is asleep, which motivates me to keep to the schedule.
Curious
(And yes, partner could and does occasionally cover workouts not during sleeping time, but toddler wrangling is intense and makes us sick a lot, so we try to have the default be two available adults during wake time on weeknights.)
Anon
I do 45-60 minutes once the kids leave for school at 7:30. I generally do a yoga or barre workout online, something from Beachbody on Demand, or a run. Work has been on a slow streak so it’s feasible for me to log on at or a little after 9:30. Things are about to pick up though, so my goal when I get back from vacation next week is to workout at 6 instead so I’m done when they get up at 7, and can immediately shower and get dressed for work when they leave for school. On fridays I meet a friend for an early morning hike, and on weekends I fit in an hour of working out during nap times and so lots of active running and playing with my kids. I can’t work out in the evening; it keeps me awake and I’m already a terrible sleeper.
Anon
Has anyone who’s transitioned to a fully-remote job gotten rid of most or all of their old business-formal clothes?
I am in a job that’s permanently remote and I think I’ll be here for a long time – possibly the rest of my career. I am 46 and we’re aiming to have me retire at 56 and my husband retire at 62 (he’ll be able to get retiree health benefits from his employer at that point). Even if I don’t stay in this job, I have no desire to go back into a regular 5-day-a-week office job, and would likely just start my own business (my husband’s income would support me doing this, and I already have a pretty successful side hustle I think I could build into an income-providing concern). At most, I’d want to do hybrid, 2-3 days a week in the office. And I’m in a very casual field and my last couple of employers have had very casual dress codes, and I can’t see getting a job at a company that was very formal – although for the right opportunity, who knows.
I need to do a closet clean-out this weekend and I am looking at the suits, sheath dresses, and the many many blazers I have, and other than the blazers and a couple of the dresses, I am just not seeing where I would wear this stuff again. I haven’t changed sizes as an adult and so I have a lot of stuff, lol. I’m thinking it’s time to let go of the business-formal and even dressier business-casual clothing, which is taking up a lot of room in my closet. But then I have this thing in the back of my head that says – this stuff was expensive and if I had to get a formal-dress in-office job, I’d have to rebuy everything if I donated these clothes. I think I know it’s time to let go of it but am having a hard time with “what-ifs.” I should just let 80% this stuff go, right? Maybe keep a suit or two in storage so I have them if needed?
No Face
There are so, so few formal dress codes left. Even the stuffiest law firm in my city is business casual now. My law firm is full blown casual, excerpt for court and client meetings.
Keep one suit because they are hard to find, then chuck the rest.
anon
My defense contractor employer is still business business at our HQ office! I am WFH permanent but need to keep senior level business formal outfits around for when I travel (e.g., not a matching suit, but an interesting well tailored blazer and suit-like pants).
anon
Yes, let it go. Keep your favorite pieces, and if you go back into a more formal office, you may need things that are more updated anyway.
Anon
I am permanent remote and need the occasional suit for conferences (most attendees are in suits) and the like. Triage: figure out what fits well and you love. Keep those things. Get rid of the stuff that’s older, does not fit well, or does not flatter. Take the stuff in the middle, stick it in a storage container, and think about it in a year.
Anonymous
Sure, keep a suit or two, if it will help you feel secure. But I’m guessing that in the unlikely event you ever again have a “formal-dress in-office job” you’d have a decent salary to go with it and it wouldn’t be a financial hardship to buy new dresses and suits as needed. So I’d strike the sunk cost off your “reasons not to move forward” list.
Anon
Let it go.
You can always buy more if you really need to.
Anon
I am permanently WFH now since I work for myself and I still have a lot of my old work clothing. I am keeping some of it for conferences and speaking engagements, but I need to make some decisions soon. How many black skirts do I really need for WFH? I think a lot of my hesitation in getting rid of it is that it took me so long to amass all of it. I’m tall and curvy and hard to fit, and I was SO HAPPY to find those perfect black skirts that were long enough and close fitting but not tight across the rear. Same with pants. Same with jackets. Same with tops.
What has somewhat helped is that my office had gone to the casual side of business casual a couple of years before the pandemic, so I had replaced some of my more formal basics with less formal versions, and I do wear those working from home. I’m not working from home in workout clothes every day – I actually do get dressed, so almost all of my pants and tops are getting worn. (RIP to my beautiful dry clean only wool pants though, I guess, especially now that I have a drooly dog.)
You’ve motivated me now to just box some of this stuff up and see if I need it over the next 12 months since this appears to be the new normal. Then I may be willing to toss it.
Anon
Yes, I got rid of all my formal clothes in 2020. I didn’t have a super formal job to begin with (higher ed) but I was hanging on to a few suits and suit pieces and said goodbye to all of it.
OOO
I gave away 90% of my work clothes. Most went to a Dress for Success-type organization, and some went to my cousin who is starting her career. Agree with the poster who said that if you end up working in a formal dress code office again you should get updated pieces anyway
Elle
My Tradwick at work keeps taking all the work and then complaining about how busy he is. Any time I offer to do something he says no no I’ve got it and then continues to complain. It makes me want to scream. What are the things you want to get off your chest today?
Anon
Totally insignificant, but when people post things for sale on FBMP and don’t provide good pictures. I’m actually interested in your thing, but I can’t see it, so never mind.
Anon
This but when it’s measurements that are missing.
Or when they just painted it with chalk paint and it was a designer piece made with heirloom wood beforehand, and now it’s worth a fraction of what it was before, and they aren’t even keeping it because they prefer it that way; they’re just bad at flipping…
Anon
I’m getting really sick of my coworkers who won’t blow their own noses without asking for a 5-step outline before getting started and 30 questions to me after they finally get going.
Anon
When my last class runs late and I have to choose between getting up and leaving or missing the last bus that goes my way and having a long walk home.
Anon
Explain to the professor. Most will understand if you say that leaving 5 minutes later means you get home an hour later.
Anon
I did and I do and it’s still annoying when it happens.
ThatsNotHowThatWorks
I volunteered to organize an office event and delegated one task to a volunteer from each division. One division volunteer’s idea of completing the task is apparently sending a division wide email telling everyone to come to me directly to complete the task.
Anon
People who press and press and press you to turn around a project before it was promised, then when you knock yourself out to do it, it sits with them in draft form for weeks because they can’t even be bothered to read/review it. Eff those people.
Anon
When my department head’s EA (a job I was promoted out of 5 years ago) insists she is not anyone’s office mom but is a ReAl PrOfFeSsIoNaL…who behaves in a pouty, bossy, whiny, and naggy manner, then complains that she gets no respect. Complete with unspoken rules and unrealistic expectations for how she thinks people should show her proper respect.
Anon
Another Easter question. We’re having an interfaith Easter dinner of sorts. Because it’s Ramadan, we’ll be eating at 7:30 pm when my Muslim friends break their fast. They’re bringing lamb and a rice pilaf, both recipes from their home country. We’re normally a ham and cheesy potatoes and green beans kind of family, and I’m a bit stumped on what to put with their dishes that still incorporate American Easter foods (and don’t overload on starches). My husband said he’d make deviled eggs, but that does seem like an odd pairing. Anyways, thanks for any ideas!
Anon
Asparagus and lemon, green beans w almonds, spanakopita, some nice bread rolls, glazed carrots, green pea salad w radish
I think the cheesy potatoes and deviled eggs sound fine too
Anonymous
Honestly, cheesy potatoes and green beans sound great with lamb and a rice pilaf! In fact, that’s pretty much been our family menu many years. Add a fruit salad and/or another vegetable (I’d like glazed carrots because they’re easy) and I think you’re all set.
Anon
I would lean into it and make your normal dishes (either without ham or with the ham on the side) and enjoy the fun mix of cultures, religions, and food!
Curious
Deviled eggs and green beans go great with lamb and pilaf! What spices do you put on your deviled eggs? Paprika or celery salt might help the flavors blend.
Anon
Just make all your normal stuff, minus the ham. Add another veggie or salad if you think there’s too much starch.
Anonymous
Carrots would go well. Peas also, but green beans are fine, too.
Seventh Sister
Coconut cake is always Easter-y to me. The one I make is pretty easy – just a box cake with some coconut in the mix and the icing.
Is Ham Halal?
Can/will your Muslim diners be OK with ham?
Anonymous
Ham isn’t halal so I assume they just won’t eat it. Make sure not to use bacon fat when you’re cooking veggies (not that you necessarily would, but I know some people use bacon fat like its butter).
Anon
I think deviled eggs sounds great and is a cute nod to egg hunts.
I posted about this yesterday but I also usually make asparagus topped with a vinaigrette and chopped hard boiled egg. It’s a classic Easter dish and it seems like it would go well with the lamb and pilaf.
Anon
Lamb is an American Easter food, too, so nothing weird about deviled eggs and lamb. I’ve had it at many Easter dinners.
Any spring vegetables will be good. I’m partial to asparagus and also new onions.
Anonymous
Minted peas and spring onions would be a perfect accompaniment.
Smokey
My mom was Syrian and always served leg of lamb for special meals. She always served it with rice and a green beans and tomato dish similar to what I’ve linked below. (Recipe calls for frozen green beans but she always used canned Blue Lake variety.) People love these beans and they go great with lamb! She also always made a green salad with avocado, tomatoes and cucumber,, dressed with lemon juice, olive oil oil, salt and pepper.
Smokey
Forgot the link. https://www.redgoldtomatoes.com/redgold/recipes/detail/green-beans-and-tomatoes
Anon
Don’t worry about pairing stuff. Eat what you like and enjoy your company.
Italy Recs
I’m going to be in Milan for work next month, and have a weekend off between meetings. I’d love to go somewhere in the countryside (vineyard?), down to the coast by Genoa, or in the lakes region for a few days – looking for somewhere with pretty views where I can read a book, eat good food, and relax. I strongly prefer not to rent a car. Do you have any recommendations for hotels accessible by train or bus? It seems like most places require a car to get there, and I don’t want to be right in a city.
BB
You might consider the site DayTrips if they operate in Italy. It’s like Uber but for one-way longer drives, kind of like an easier way to hire a private driver.
Anon
You can take a train from Milan to Varenna on Lake Como and there are ferries that leave from there that can take you around the lake. Heaven.
Anon
This is what I’d do
emeralds
Yup, this would be my rec too.
Anonymous
I’d appreciate any tips that you have regarding dealing with a staff person who is performing poorly and very upset with me.
I’m a senior associate. She is my assistant, and I share her with one other attorney. She also does some paralegal work in a practice area for both of us. In the last month or two, I have noticed an increasing decline in all areas of her work. When I had a couple of conversations with her she mentioned that her personal life is getting in the way of work, she should probably keep a to do list (she has no form of to do list now(!!) despite the fact we have discussed this 10+ times in the last year), etc. She misses at least one full day every other week for some type of emergency/unplanned absence. Recently she missed schedule court hearings for me. If I ask her for something on a deadline of a day or two, or even just a status update on a task, she freaks out and delegates it – both administrative and substantive tasks. Essentially, I have come to realize I have no idea what she had been doing at work for the last several months.
Now that I have spoken with her and have been taking steps to correct these issues, she has become extremely frustrated with me. She has tearfully expressed this to me multiple times in person and even sent me an email one time that she perceived I was angry with her because my door was closed for a couple of hours one day and didn’t say hello to her. (I typically close my door for portions of each day for phone calls and quiet work but otherwise keep it open. That day I was working on a complex matter with a deadline and had not been through the part of the building where her desk is located yet to even say hello.) It has come to my attention that she is venting her frustrations to other staff and speaking about me in a very inappropriate way that indicates she does not respect me as her superior. (When I was given this information by another staff member, I did not engage further just said thank you for letting me know.)
Currently, she wants a promotion to full-time paralegal in her practice area. I’m not in favor of it and neither are the other attorney who works with her in this area nor the head staff person in the department. In fact, we are currently hiring for another paralegal. I know she’s going to be extremely angry about this.
I’m really struggling. I care about her as a person, but I feel like my kindness was taken advantage of. Honestly, staff interaction is one of the hardest parts of the job of a young attorney in my opinion!
Anon
You posted about this last week in a slightly differently-skewed way. I ask again fear you have done to actually manage her work responsibilities and priorities.
anon
It sounds like it’s well past time to start documenting everything and put her on a PIP, if not outright firing her.
Anon8
+1
Anon
You wrote about this a few weeks ago?
Anonymous
Are you sure? I feel like this is a common problem (only because i’ve had it too, but have not posted about it here).
Cat
The basic info is the same and also the specific detail about the worry about the door being closed…
Anon
You need to document all these issues and put her on a PIP immediately.
Cat
You posted about this a few weeks ago and many of us understood how she would struggle to focus on substantive paralegal work (like tax forms) when also expected to be on-call for administrative tasks, which by their nature, require a lot of distracting emails etc. if you’re arranging calls or the like.
I would tell her that if she wants a promotion she needs to demonstrate that she can handle her current job efficiently, but also seriously revisit whether she’s the right fit for your company and also whether the admin work should really be with… an admin.
Anon
I think I responded to you before but let me be clear – there are two people here who are not doing their jobs and you are one of them.
Your job as a manager is to manage your staff. This staff member should have been put on a performance improvement plan months ago and she’d be out the door by now. But you have kicked the can down the road, and now she’s poisoning the well by gossiping about you and your management, which you have to admit is ineffective.
Go to Human Resources TODAY and get the ball rolling. This situation is not going to fix itself. You have to manage it. You’re a manager. That’s what you do.
anon
I have a sensitive issue with a friend. She has two very large dogs (not sure what breed) that seem pretty reactive, to my untrained eye. They get stressed when people come over and one of them has bitten a teen walking on the sidewalk and an adult friend who visited their home. Unprovoked. She does not put the dogs away when people come over, and even when we’re outside, these dogs are roaming everywhere and just generally being annoying. Our families have gatherings together sometimes, and I have become VERY nervous about having my kids around these particular dogs. Both dogs weigh more than my kids do, and they’re 8 and 13!
So what do I do? Ask her to keep the dogs locked up when we’re over? It seems like a huge overstep to ask someone to alter their own living environment for guests, but since they aren’t doing it on their own …
And, when the weather is nice, we host outdoor gatherings in our backyard and sometimes she brings the dogs along since “we’re just outside.” Sometimes she asks first, sometimes she doesn’t. I am honestly afraid that someone’s going to get hurt, and some of our mutual friends have expressed the same concern. But we’re all hesitant to bring up the topic because although the dog-owning friend seems concerned about the behaviors, she’s also not changing how the dogs interact with guests.
I will fully admit that I’m actually scared of large dogs, and always have been after a cousin’s dog bit me when I was 5 or so.
How would you approach this in a kind and gentle way that doesn’t shame her for her reactive dog(s)?
Anon
Are you kidding? You need to address this right now and not let your kids be around those dogs. Have a difficult conversation. Use words. I’m sorry, but this is wild.
Anne-on
This. I’m sorry but she is VERY lucky that she hasn’t been sued and had the dogs put down after the first, no less the second(!) bite. Your kids come first, not her feelings. I’d be firm – her dogs are NOT allowed at your house, and you won’t be going to her home if the dogs are there. This is not open for debate, if she shows up with the dogs ask her to leave.
Would you rather her be peeved at you, or deal with a serious incident where these dogs harm your kids?
go for it
+100
Anon
I agree. I would be firm with her and say if you get together at her house the dogs need to be gated otherwise you will not go over to her house and she can come to yours. That’s it. Set a firm boundary.
Anon
Yup, no debate on this one. If she is unwilling to crate her dogs or leave them home, you don’t see her. Some things in life HAVE to be firm.
Anon.
Agree. The boundary you need to be setting concerns your children’s and other people’s health and safety! Inconveniencing your dog-owning friend is the least of your concern.
Dogs can mutilate someone when they are agressive, and with a history of biting this risk is even higher!
Speak up now, don’t let the dogs be on your property, and insist your friend crates or keeps her dogs away when she throws a party at her house.
FWIW, I have a friend whose dog is a large breed, very friendly and docile but super slobbery – my kid is afraid of the dog and doesn’t like his face getting licked, so our friend puts the dog in a different room when we’re over at their house. This is what reponsible dog owners do.
anon
I know. It gets awkward because other people sometimes bring their pets, too. Their pets are annoying but not scary. We may have to collectively agree on no pets allowed.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why people need to bring their pets to a party anyway. I have the world’s sweetest dog who is super popular with people, and it’s still a hassle to keep an eye on her to make sure she’s not bugging people or stealing appetizers or escaping the yard.
Anon.
No. If other people’s pets behave or they keep them leashed, they can bring them!
You need to address this dog, not prohibit all dogs.
Anon
+1 Come on, OP, grow a spine.
nuqotw
+1. You are not overreacting. These dogs sound like a menace. She can be with her friends or she can be with her dogs but not both at the same time.
Anonymous
1- don’t go to her house. She’s entitled to have her dogs free in her own home.
2- when you invite her over, tell her “the dogs can’t come”
Senior Attorney
Yes, this is the only way. Just tell her “It’s my responsibility as a parent not to let my kids be around dogs with a history of biting.”
Anonymous
If one of these dogs has bitten two people you need to tell her firmly that they cannot be around you and your children. Full stop. It’s not a problem with your fear or history and you should not be apologetic. It is a problem with the dogs and their owner’s management of them. I am a dog person but I do not tolerate dangerous animals.
Anon
She should be shamed for being a very irresponsible pet parent. Don’t put your family at risk any longer. Have a heart to heart and if she can’t handle it, you should dump her as a friend because she cares more about her dogs than the people around her.
Anon.
Also, can your friend not at least leash her dogs???
Anon.
Here’s a script: “Friend, we love coming over to your house and spending time with you, but we do not feel safe when your dogs are roaming around freely. They have bitten someone before, and we do not want to be next or witness an incident with one of your guests. From now on, we will only be able to join your parties when you can safely contain your dogs. We won’t be able to accomodate your dogs at our house either, since we have responsibility to keep our own guests safe and comfortable. Hope you understand.”
Anon
Do people actually talk to their friends like this? Would you say this in a conversation or send it in a text? When I people suggest “scripts” here they are always so formal and stilted and I can’t imagine anyone other than automaton actually talking like this.
Anon
This is what I would say: “Friend, I’ve been hesitating to bring this up because I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but I need to let you know that I can’t let my kids be around your dogs anymore. I’m not comfortable knowing they’ve bit two people and and I can’t take the chance of any incidents. I’m going to need to ask that you not bring them over to our house at all, not even outdoors. Dog safety is something I have to take really seriously and I hope you understand.”
Anonymous
As someone who has had Labradors her whole life, with a BFF with a dog reactive Belgian Malinois, another friend with a husky, close neighbor with a bulldog, and a sister with a Newfoundland – DO NOT have these dogs at your house or around your children. I am surrounded by people close to me with large dogs my whole life and I would never allow a dog that had bit a teen around my kids (8 and 11) unless I knew that they had been assessed and trained by a proper trainer.
If something happens at your house to mutual friends, you will likely be liable as you know that the dogs have a bite history. Tell her she is welcome but that the dogs have to stay home. Do not go to her house unless the dogs are securely penned or kept in a separate room.
Anon
I agree. Talk to her. I have a big dog (who is fortunately no reactive or a biter — but definitely a licker). A friend expressed her concern about the dog being around her kids, due to dog’s size and being a young rambunctious dog. The dog is now crated in another room whenever they come over. Crates are a safe place for dogs. Wasn’t an issue at all when she brought it up.
Anon
+1 to this. If we have people over who are nervous about our dogs (who are medium size and very mellow, but some people have had bad experiences with dogs, or just don’t like them), we crate them or confine them in another room. This is why crate-training for puppies is so recommended – there are times where the best place for the dog is their crate. One of our dogs crates himself in the evenings or if it gets too noisy/busy in the house, and he’s over it. Some people act like crates are cruel; to me, what’s cruel is leaving an anxious or nervous dog, or one with a lot of energy, in the middle of a situation where they can get hurt or get scared and hurt someone else. OP, if your friend won’t crate her dog when your kids are over? Don’t go over to her house.
Anon
Stop going over to her house and tell her it’s because of her awful dogs if she asks. Don’t let her bring dogs to your house. The answer to all of your problems is to use your words. Stop worrying about whether you’re going to make her feel bad.
Anon
I used to have a reactive dog who did unfortunately bite a guest once (didn’t break the skin, but it was still obviously scary).
After that, I put him in a safe and comfortable area every time we had anyone over unless they specifically said on their own volition they wanted to see him (he was very sweet to certain people). We also got an in-home trainer to help us deal with him. And still would not let him just be around people. I was never ever ever offended if someone expressed anxiety around him and would put him in a safe spot without questions and immediately! The “safe spot” was in his kennel in a different room with the door closed.
Basically— she is not being a responsible dog owner at all. You are well within your rights to draw this boundary with any animal you perceive as dangerous. Even if the dog didn’t have a history of biting, you’d be reasonable to request this boundary. If she responds with anger or belittling you or anything other than immediate understanding and compliance, she is a bad friend.
Anon
You can say she can’t bring her dogs when she comes to visit you. This is going to involve you using your big girl voice and you just have to do it. The safety of everyone there, especially your kids, is your responsibility.
You cannot demand she lock up her dogs when you’re at her house. The solution to this is to not go to her house.
Anon
+10000000000000
Anon
I disagree. I think you can say to any dog owner that their dogs make you uncomfortable, so you’re only able to come over if the dogs are contained somehow. It’s not that you’re demanding she lock her dogs up, but you are saying those are the conditions under which you’ll go to her house. She can then choose what to do.
I’m the person above who owned a reactive dog. My dog now is not reactive and has never met a stranger, but I’m still happy to confine her if someone asks or seems uncomfortable.
Anonymous
You absolutely must not let your children around these dogs. I say this as the owner of a dog much like the ones you describe. We loved our dog (too much). We had him for 7 years. We had a baby and despite the fact that our dog gotten increasingly bad about guarding, despite the fact that our dog bit me when I tried to get him to drop the poisonous thing he’d been eating, despite the fact that our dog lunged at and nipped (broke no skin, but probably could have) a running teen while on the leash with me, we kept the dog. He eventually nipped our toddler (scratched skin, not broken or bleeding) and we immediately rehomed him. I still miss that dog but when I think about what could have happened but didn’t I’m deeply ashamed of how we put our feelings toward the dog before safety.
So. What to do.
Let your friend know that your children are afraid of her dogs and you won’t be able to visit unless they are secured. You understand that’s difficult and she’s welcome to come to your place any time, but the dogs are unfortunately not allowed to tag along- inside or outside. You can smile and chalk it up to kids being kids.
Is it 100% the truth? No. But it’s a gently way to draw a line in the sand with your friend. If she wants to argue that your kid should be cool being terrified of her dogs, well, then she’s not a great friend. If your friend shows up to an outdoor gathering at your house with the dogs despite being told not to, then you have to have the conversation and hold your ground. “i’m so sorry, but we can’t have the dogs here. I’m happy to lock them in the garage and give them a bowl of water if you’re cool with that [if YOU, op, are also cool with that], or you can leave them in the car (assuming the weather is appropriate for this), otherwise, I’m going to need you to take them home.”
FWIW my dog used to chill out in garages or even in our SUV trunk with the windows down at family events when we had to bring him along.
Anon
I had a friendship end because my former friend has two dogs that are just not okay around people, and she was completely in denial or dismissive about the problem. We went over to her house one day and my son (who had met the dogs before, several times, and understood the behavior issues) went to pull his phone out of his pocket and one of the dogs lunged at him. Didn’t make contact but we were all freaked out. My friend tried to laugh it off – “oh, you’re just here on one of his (the dog’s) bad days” and didn’t even apologize. My son (who’s a teenager) was like – the next time you go over to her house I’ll just stay home. Which was a shame, because we’d been close to this person for most of his life. But that was it for me. I was tired of hearing about all the myriad stories of the bad dog behavior before her dog lunged at my son; after that incident, I was really done. I told her how I felt, she told me I was overreacting, then started crying and said “my dogs are my babies and no one understands how much I love them, I can’t keep them locked up or give them away.” So, fine. I don’t need to be around someone who prioritizes their dogs over people’s safety – and I say that as a dog owner myself!
OP – everyone else is right. The dogs can’t be around your kids. I have a cousin who was nearly killed in a dog attack when he was 4 and still has bad scarring across his face and neck from the attack. He’s also still, understandably, terrified of dogs. It’s not worth the risk.
Anon
Maybe she is in over her head, but she’s not taking good care of these dogs. She should not be putting them in situations that they themselves find stressful. She should not be risking a situation where her dogs are put down because they harmed someone. I’m having a hard time with this one, but if you’re not a dog person or an animal person, I want to make sure you have perspective on how uncool this is just as animal caretaking.
anon
OP here. I’m not a dog person at all, and especially dislike large dogs, which is probably coloring my perspective and makes me wonder if I’m overreacting.
Anon
Maybe she is not exactly a dog person either if she’s having this much trouble and isn’t sure what to do about it! But it sounds to me like you’re overcompensating for your dislike of large dogs rather than overreacting; I grew up with large dogs, love dogs, and would need these dogs to be crated or otherwise contained away from me (let alone children).
Anon
You are not overreacting! If you’re uncomfortable, then that’s a good enough reason, especially not to let them at your house.
They’ve bitten people! Multiple people! I do not think it’s possible to overreact about whether you will be around these dogs.
Anon
Prioritize yourself and your kids over her and her dogs!
LadyB
Where do you shop for clothes online? I’m in a rut and tired of the mall shops.
Anon
eBay
Anon8
Obviously it depends on your person style but as a 30-something who works from home but likes to dress up now and then I shop at: & Other Stories, Reformation, Sezane, COS, Mango, Madewell, Aritzia, Abercrombie (I know, but their curve line of pants and jeans are SO good)…I shop online too much.
Weather.
Just ranting that I am over this stupid weather here in the Midwest. I’m in Indiana and so far 20ish tornadoes were confirmed to have touched down in our state Friday, causing several fatalities.
Spent half the evening Friday in the basement (grateful we have one!), but today it’s the 4th thunderstorm warning since 7am, with tornado watch ongoing. I’m expecting the sirens to go off again soon.
I love spring but I hate that it means extreme weather here.
Anon
Same here. I’m in Arkansas, and the tornadoes on Friday came very close to my house and actually hit a friend’s house while she was in it (she is okay physically). I couldn’t sleep at all last night with the storms and am very on edge today with the tornado watch active until tonight. It’s really awful and scary right now and only getting worse with climate change.
Anon
I’m in Indiana too. We haven’t had to go to the basement yet this season but I saw a lot of tornado damage when I drove to Indy this past weekend. I actually love rainstorms, especially this time of year, but could do without the tornadoes.
Anon
I’m one state to the south and hate tornadoes. Hope you are all okay.
Anonymous
Does “just ranting over this stupid weather” mean “I’m scared”? If so, I get it. I live in a tornado state, and after a day when sirens are going off, I (and everyone around me) feels on-edge and jumpy the next time stormy weather comes in.
busybee
I work 9-5. My husband works 8a-4p for two weeks, then 4p-midnight for two weeks, and then it switches back. He has two days off per week but they are different each week.
I do a lot of solo parenting. What has been hardest is that I don’t get days off. If husband is off on, say, Tuesday and Wednesday, kiddo is in daycare so he has the whole days off. But my days off are weekends, and I have solo childcare duties most of those days. Getting out of the house solo is crucial, as is having husband do the chores you mentioned so that there can be less on your plate.I would try to also have time alone with your husband. Sometimes we can be like ships passing in the night and it’s necessary to schedule time together.
Anon
Can he do housework during his weekday days off so you don’t have to worry about it in the weekends? Also going food shopping on a Tuesday afternoon instead of Sunday sounds ideal! Just because he has a day off from work doesn’t mean it’s a day off from life. He should do other things to make life easier and then maybe you two can take an extended lunch break on those days if it works for your schedule.
busybee
Sorry, this was a nesting fail! I meant it as a reply to the poster above who was asking about parenting with different schedules.
Anon
I had my hair done yesterday and the stylist asked me if there were a lot of female lawyers. She has a few new clients that are lawyers. It made me sad — I went to law school decades ago and my class was 50% women. Now, a lot of people, mostly women, were in non-law jobs 5 years out and definitely by 10 years out many women weren’t even working at all (kids, mostly). But I thought that we weren’t seen as unicorns now.
I have kids now (had them later, so my relative seniority helped a ton in navigating life after them; but what made the difference was having my own clients, not ever what my title was). It is a minefield as one has a lot of developmental issues and a lot of appointments — I basically work PT by the BigLaw yardstick but FT the way normal jobs work. It struck me (sadly) that when I see women who are successful, it’s often just ones who are not moms. So I see kids as a hard limit whereas gender is more of a different drag on advancement / soft ceiling, if that makes sense.
But, in 2023, ugh. Tired of this being a unicorn. I want my experience to be be more vanilla / typical.
Cat
huh? My legal department is full of moms of all ages, young kids to college.
Anon
I’m 10 years out of law school and no females from my class have stepped back or dropped out that I know of (and I have a lot of female law school friends). All are in legal roles or doing something else that’s awesome.
Anonymous
I have been really disgusted by the number of women I went to law school with who presented themselves as committed to practicing, took great competitive jobs, spent the first years of their careers pursuing marriage to a client, doctor, or another lawyer, and then dropped out of not just big law or law but the workforce all together as soon as they had their first child with a high-earner. Some of them have the nerve to come to reunions and serve on alumni boards.
Anon
The nerve! To come to reunions for the school they went to! To serve on alumni boards for the schools of which they are alumni!
They don’t owe you.
Anonymous
Nope. They don’t owe me anything. But they might owe someone.
anon
Unless they violated an employment contract and for some reason owe damages, I quite doubt that they do.
Anon
Owe someone what, exactly? I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
Anon
How is it nervy to go to a reunion??
Anon
You don’t need to be disgusted. As women, we all face difficult choices. I wouldn’t choose their path, but they probably wouldn’t choose mine.
Anon
Totally agree.
Also: I know some women who went to good schools, got professional degrees, worked for awhile, then stepped back or quit when they had kids – with the intention of getting back into the workforce in 5 or 10 years when their kids were older. And many of them have actually gone back to the field they were in before they stepped back or quit.
Childcare in this country sucks. Elementary education schedules are not designed around the work schedules of parents. I stepped back myself and worked part-time, when my son was in early preschool through kindergarten, because I just couldn’t make the scheduling work. I went back to work full-time when he was 6 and have been in the workforce, full-time, ever since then, but for a long time chose very flexible jobs that paid less so that I would be more available. And that was my choice, because I am a person who wanted to have a family first and really is not that motivated to have some kind of brilliant career. I always knew I wanted to work, but my career has never been the priority and that should be fine, because it’s supposed to be about choices.
Just because someone quits or steps back when they have kids doesn’t mean they’re permanently out of the game (not that it’s anyone’s business). And not everyone wants to be a hard-charging go-getter their entire career. That describes me, FYI. I like working but “climbing the ladder” is not for me and never will be. I guess I shouldn’t sit on alumni boards or go to my reunions because I didn’t use my education to clamber to the top of a mountain I had no interest in climbing. Right?
Anon
+1 to all of this.
NW Islander
This is really weird. I am going to my 15 year law school reunion soon, and yes it was basically planned by women like you describe. I’m thankful that capable people had time to plan the reunion. I never left the BigLaw adjacent gig and I am also single, so I do not have time for that.
I often wish I had spent my early career finding a high-earning partner. To some I might be an example of “what is possible” but I am lonely and exhausted and marginalized at work.
anon
I, too, hate it when other people don’t live their lives exactly the way I think they should and have different priorities than I do. They are FAILURES, AMIRITE? And they have the nerve to show up in public and participate in those very same aspects of their lives that I don’t think they’re doing correctly. Ugh. Disgusting.
Anon
I was following until the bit about going to reunions and serving on alumni boards. Unless their contributions are causing problems because they are not addressing the needs of the working alumni, I don’t see the problem.
Weirdly, I have more respect for the women (and men) who flat out admitted that they went to law school to find a spouse or have no desire to have a big career, than I have for the people who pretend, make a big show of it, and then swan off. I remember being interviewed 2L year by a handful of young associates who clearly had no intention of ever staying in their jobs and acted like I was weird for having actual ambition. Okay, that’s fine for you but some of us like working.
anon
Maybe this is true in Big Law, but all of my women lawyer friends stayed in law but went into different career paths. Clerk of courts. Judges at all levels. Government – Contracts for the museums/arts. Private practice in entertainment law. Small law – tax, estate/family law. In house jobs. Yes, a couple of my male friends stayed in Big Law. They are the boring people, actually! All of my women lawyer friends have kids except one.
anon
The majority of my in-house law department is women who have kids . . . and they are all senior and incredibly well-respected (and also do lots of stuff with their kids, including leaving the office to do pickup pre-COB) . . .
Senior Attorney
Threadjack: When I was a new lawyer in the late 80s, my kid was little and my husband was an elementary school teacher. One day the office was closed for Lincoln’s birthday and by some miracle I was actually able to take the day off and spend it at home with my 3-year-old. I was pushing him on his little swing on the patio and we had the following conversation:
Me: Today is the birthday of President Abraham Lincoln. And guess what? He was a lawyer, just like Mommy!
Kid (laughing incredulously): What? A MAN LAWYER????
Anon
That is so adorable!
Anon
When I was growing up we had a family friend who was a female pilot (super rare back then, still pretty rare today I think) and apparently when I was 6 or so we flew somewhere and I got invited into the c0ckpit and I was flabbergasted to see men because I thought only women could be pilots.
Cornellian
omg that is amazing!
Anon
OMG I love this!!! I want to use this in real life. What??? A Man Lawyer??
Or, a man accountant? A man financial professional?
This amuses me so much.
No Face
Happy to say that my firm is mostly working moms, and the men are also very involved parents! I don’t feel like a unicorn here at all.
Anon
Counter intuitively, a lot of the women I know who are moms and attorneys live in smaller, southern cities. Think Norfolk, Charleston, Raleigh. The fact that they are cities means that some of the sexism is mitigated. The small aspect helps because their husbands are working 40-50 hours a week, not 80 hours a week. That means she doesn’t “need” to give up her job because he has no bandwidth. Put differently, it’s possible for both husband and wife to have high powered jobs and be home by dinner.
Anonymous
Yea. I’m at a large firm headquartered in the South and we have plenty of mom lawyers. Our firm managing partner has 3 kids (I think all teenagers). I am from the South and went to law school in New York and I still remember one of my professors telling me “I think the Southerners have a much better sense of work-life balance.” He was not wrong.
Anon
I’m one of the dropouts. I actually enjoyed working in Big Law (for the most part) as a 20-something associate without a family, but I didn’t see how it would be compatible with the kid I wanted fairly soon and my husband had an academic job that required a move to the middle of nowhere. I wasn’t interested in commuting almost 3 hours round-trip to the nearest big city with a young family, and the biggest local firm (really the only firm that does non-family litigation in the small college town we live in) turned out to be a cesspool of racism and sexism that really destroyed my mental health (and also paid me, as a sixth year associate, substantially less than my brand new assistant professor husband earned). In this post-Covid remote-friendly world, I might have stuck it out at a city firm for a few years commuting only a couple days per week, but who knows if it would have worked out long term. I don’t have the business development skills or interest to be a partner at a firm and in-house opportunities are so limited and typically involve geographical moves I couldn’t have made because of my husband.
But yeah my Big Law firm in California was demoralizingly mom-free at the higher levels, and then the small firm I briefly worked at in this red state college town had almost no women attorneys.
Anon
We need to start a commiseration thread for trailing spouses.
Anon
I’m here for that!
Anonymous
I am the person who posted above about my classmates leaving the workforce and the facts of your story make total sense to me and I have no gripe at all with your individual decision. In most cases I am referring to, the women still live in the major metro area where we went to school, but report daily to the swim and tennis facilities in their suburban planned communities rather than a workplace. They have a couple of kids without disabilities who are now in middle or high school. And it is fine but they were not pushed out of the profession. This was always their plan. They just needed access to the dating pool they targeted or to kill time after college. Many of their husbands expected to have a working spouse and were very surprised by their desire to stay home. It has actually caused friction in several marriages.
Anon
They are not making the choice to leave the workforce at you.
Anon
This sounds like she’s sleeping with one of the husbands and is justifying it because his wife is such a shrew who dropped out of the workforce putting poor hubby in a tough spot. But seriously OP I really doubt all these women went to law school just to catch a man and never intended to work. Lives are long, careers are twisty, things happen and unless this woman is BFF-level close to you, you almost certainly don’t know all the details that went into her decision.
Anonymous
That is quite a leap. No, I am not sleeping with one of their husbands. I am not now and never have slept with anyone’s husband.
Anon
Little excessive to say that she’s sleeping with the husbands. Plenty of men want to marry a woman who contributes financially, and are unhappy to be put in the position of being the sole breadwinner.
Anon
The “sleeping with their husbands” comment was tongue in cheek, but I do think it’s very weird to assume you understand the nuances of someone’s marital dynamics when you’ve heard (at most) one side of the story. I know so many men – actually pretty much every man I know with a SAHM wife – who privately encouraged, if not forced, that decision, but publicly goes on and on about how his wife is a load who doesn’t earn money. It’s well established that having a stay at home wife is a HUGE benefit to a man’s career and this kind of life change is normally something couples decide on jointly, so I definitely think it’s a little naive to assume these women did this unilaterally and the husbands are unhappy about it.
Also it’s sadly common for men who complain about their wives to female friends and colleagues to be putting out feelers for a potential affair (this has happened to me more than once…), so I’m inherently distrustful of any man who talks this way about his wife to other women. Even if the decision wasn’t mutual and he’s unhappy about it, it’s something that should be addressed in marriage counseling, not vented about to his friends and colleagues, especially female ones.
Huh?
Why do you care thou?
Anonymous
Tons of women attorneys in my government agency. Also lots of women attorneys at my old BigLaw firm, though very few of them had kids.
Anon
I am interested in applying for a job but only in part time work. Should I express this from the get go in the cover letter?
Anonymous
You should only apply to part-time jobs. As a hiring manager you are wasting my time if you want a part-time job and apply for full-time positions.
anon
+1,000
Anon
I have a hyphenated maiden name, which consists of both of my parents’ names. Example, Sarah Smith-Jones. I’m getting married this summer (let’s say to Rob Adams), and I’m not sure what to do. Do I drop one of my parents’ names to re-hyphenate, like drop the Smith and be Sarah Jones-Adams? Do I keep my maiden name? I’ve thought about taking one of my current names as a middle name, like Sarah Smith Jones-Adams, and using Sarah S. Jones-Adams. I don’t want to offend either of my parents when choosing which to drop. Anyone else faced this situation?
NYCer
I have never had a hyphenated name, so I have not faced this situation, but if you’re looking for opinions…. I would either drop both of your parents names or neither. Seems really odd to drop one IMO. So either go by Sarah Adams or Sarah Smith-Jones.
Anon
Yea, definitely this!
Anon
Agree. Don’t just assume you have to change your name at all.
anon
This.
Anon
This. Dropping one of the last names and adding your fiancés is the worst solution. It’s not clear that you used to be Sarah Smith-Jones who is now Sarah Jones-Adams or Smith-Adams; it’s just confusing for people who know you or heard of you. You may offend one parent.
I’ll remind you that your name is YOUR name. I have no relationship with my father but did not change my name because it is **my** last name. It’s on my diplomas, law license, and publications. It doesn’t say “Katie, daughter of Steven Smith,” it says “Katie Smith.”
London (formerly NY) CPA
I think the first question is: do you want to take your future spouse’s name? If the answer is yes, I wouldn’t hypenate. I think hyphenating would be complicated and wouldnt have the added benefit of keeping your maiden name for recognition purposes, which I think is the only reason I would personally hyphenate, so in your situation, I would either take your spouse’s name or keep your maiden name.
Anonymous
Just kept your name? In my area at least it’s super common for female lawyers to keep their maiden names. Like to the point where I feel a bit awkward about having taken DH’s last name as a double last name with my own. Kids generally have their dad’s last name and may refer to other moms socially as Ms. Dad’s last name.
Also to take some pressure off, the wedding isn’t a deadline to decide. One lawyer I work with switched to her husband’s last name after 7 years. Another switched from her husband’s last name to her maiden name after 9 years and two kids (she just retired and they’ve been married like 20+ years, I only knew her as maiden name until story came up).
Anon
Reasonable parents wouldn’t be offended by you dropping their names. Women do it with their maiden names all the time.
Anonymous
I would be Sarah Smith-Jones Adams.
Anon
Also I wouldn’t drop one of your maiden names and replace it with your husband’s name. That’s weird.
Anonymous
This is actually super common in some countries. Double last name at birth, switch to dad’s name plus married name at marriage, kids have grandfather’s last name (mom’s) name and dad’s name as a double last name. When they married they keep their dad’s last name and add married name.
Anon
Yeah, but this isn’t one of those countries and I assume OP doesn’t have that heritage if she’s asking this question.
Cat
Do you yourself want a hyphenated last name? FWIW I would either keep your current last name or just take your husband’s rather than creating a new half-old, half-new hyphenate.
Anon
I didn’t take my husband’s name, but if that’s what you want to do, how about using your hyphenated maiden name as your middle name. So you’d be Sarah Smith-Jones Adams. With your middle initial abbreviated, you’d be Sarah S. Adams. Your parents chose to put Smith first so your middle initial would be consistent with their choice.
Anon
This is what I did, although I did not have a hyphenated last name. Anon [Maiden Name] [Husband’s Last Name].
Anon
Your husband could take your hyphenated name, making him Rob Smith-Jones.
Senior Attorney
Boom!
Cb
My husband and I both changed our name, combining the two, so we were are something like “Blue Fox”. My in laws remain in total denial.
Anon
Amen.
Senior Attorney
If it were me, I keep my original hyphenated name and give my kids a new hyphenated name consisting of my mom’s name plus my husband’s name. I think any rational person would understand keeping the name of the same-sex parent so I wouldn’t expect it cause offense.
Esquinkle
This is exactly what I did. Works for us.
Anonymous
In your situation I think you either keep your maiden name or drop it and adopt your partner’s last name. Keeping the double-barreled name as a middle name is a LOT. You could possibly drop your current middle name and be known as Sarah Smith Jones Adams (Sarah S.J. Adams) but that’s as far as I go.
Or….a creative option…Sarah Adams Smith-Jones?
Anonymous
Just keep your maiden name. No paperwork vs. lots of paperwork to change it!
No Face
I would not drop just one parent’s name. I vote either stay as is, change to husband’s last name, or you and your husband pick an entirely new surname for both of you. The last one is rare but I think it’s a cool idea!
emeralds
I did! I knew I didn’t want to become Sarah Adams (to stick with your example) so I originally planned to become Sarah Smith-Adams, but I had multiple international travel plans in the six months after my wedding so I didn’t file the name change forms immediately. Then COVID hit and I just never got around to changing it, so I’m still Sarah Smith-Jones.
But FWIW I no longer have a relationship with the parent who contributed Jones, which is why it was going to get the boot. I do think it would have been harder to pick which one to drop if that weren’t the case.
Anonymous
Keep your name. It’s insane so many smart women don’t. Idk why we are still pretending whatever choice you make is the bestest.
Anon
I totally agree.
Anon
Yes! It’s time to stop changing our identities because we get married.
NYNY
Your husband can become Rob Smith-Jones. Or you can create a new last name that both of you take. There are so many options. You and he need to talk through the options. How important is it to each of you that you share a last name? How do you feel about your name? How does he feel about his?
OOO
I vote to replace father’s name with husband’s. Sarah Smith-Adams.
Anonymous
I am rooting for your husband to take your last name, just because this should become a more common option! My in-laws were aghast at the suggestion that my husband I both become Mr. and Mrs. HisLast-MyLast. We ended up fully keeping our own names, but I want more men to consider making a change just for equality’s sake.
Anon
I would keep your list name or do whatever sounds good in combination with your husband’s last name. I wouldn’t worry about offending your parents. This is one of the pitfalls of giving a child a hyphenated name and if they’re reasonable people they’ll understand.
Nesprin
Portmanteau all the last names? Smi-on-ems? Ad-ith-ones?
Anon
Keep your name.
An.On.
I had a friend in this situation! She actually did what most are suggesting not to do: She dropped one maiden name, and hyphenated the other with husband’s maiden name, who also hyphenated his to match. So they went from Sarah Smith-Jones and Rob Adams to Sarah & Rob Jones-Adams. I have no idea how she arrived at her decision about which names to keep.
Smokey
Do whatever seems right for you. We gave our kids a hyphenated last name and knew the day would likely come when they would want to do something else. When my daughter married, she dropped my part of the hyphenated name, and kept her father’s part, and both she and her wife took that as their new (unhyphenated) new family name. I did not feel at all bad about her decision to keep her dad’s name and not mine, especially after she explained that she felt closer to that side of the family. Which was true because his side readily accepted her same sex marriage while my side of the family found it sinful.
Anon
This may give me away but… that’s ok.
I have hyphenated first and last names. No middle name. My last name is a combination of my bio dad’s last name (he passed when I was young) and my stepfather’s (he adopted us). My mother and stepfather let a 5th grader (me) pick her last name. I have no explanation for the first name given I’m from the Northeast.
ANYWAY… This is something I’ve given a lot of thought to over the years.
I have decided that if I ever get married, I will keep my name as is. I’m in my early 40s and fairly well-known in my industry. Also, it’s a big part of my overall identity. Like, it fits me, I guess. So, that is one of the factors I suggest considering.
I would consider whether you plan to have children. I’ve heard (though I have no personal experience) that depending on the last name you designate for your children, it could be difficult for you to travel internationally with them alone. For example, if your last name is Smith-Jones but you’ve decided that your children will have your future spouse’s last name of Adams, then you may be given some trouble since the last names don’t match. It’s annoying but I think I’ve read on here or heard from a friend that even with birth certs, etc., it can be a pain.
I highly recommend against dropping one of your last names and re-hyphenating with your spouse’s name. This is going to cause a whole lot of headaches for everyone in your life, including yourself.
Regarding your parents, I understand this concern. If you want to take your fiance’s last name, you could take your full hyphenated maiden name and make it your middle name. There’s no rule saying you can’t have a hyphenated middle name, OR drop the hyphen and have 2 middle names.
I’ve always joked with partners that if they want me to take their last name, they’d have to take mine as well – a double-hyphenated last name. I’ve also suggested just picking a new last name. LOL. That said, I am very firm on this. I will not change my last name. Men who have shown displeasure at this did not last long. (No judgment, btw, it’s a very personal thing. I’m just sharing my thoughts.)
Anon
My last name is different from my kids’. I kept my maiden name, they have my husband’s last name. I know people like to talk about how it is so difficult at school or when traveling or at the doctor’s office, but my kids are in their twenties now and it has Not. Ever. Not. Even. Once. been an issue. I’ve traveled domestically and internationally with them, I’ve taken them to most doctor’s appointments, including emergency care, and including specialists at big hospitals for my child that has a chronic illness. I’ve handled most of their school stuff. No one has ever cared. I’ve never had to produce a birth certificate. It’s never even been commented on or asked about.
Think about how many blended/divorced families there are, or never married moms who gave the children the father’s last name. It happens every single day. If this is the only reason you’re considering changing your name but would otherwise like to keep it, don’t do it.
Anon
Do you have to change your name?