ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 238 Comments

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Demi Cotton-Silk Cardigan

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

A woman wearing a gray cardigan and gray pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

As we enter the season of Big Air Conditioning, I’m looking for a few cardigans to keep my body temperature out of the hypothermia zone. This cotton-silk cardigan from Banana Republic has a beautifully relaxed silhouette — perfect for layering over dresses, skirts, or pants.

This light heather gray will go nicely with most of my summer ‘fits, but it also comes in black, ivory, navy stripe, and glass blue. 

The sweater is $94.99-$120 at Banana Republic and comes in regular sizes XXS-XXL and petite sizes XXS-L.

Looking for more summerweight silk blends? Check M.M.LaFleur (silk jersey & cotton silk), Banana Republic (cotton silk), and Poetry (linen silk).

Sales of note for 1/22/25:

  • Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
  • AllSaints – Clearance event, now up to 70% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
  • Ann Taylor – All sale dresses $40 (ends 1/23)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything
  • Boden – Clearance, up to 60% off!
  • DeMellier – Final reductions now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
  • Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; extra 50% off all clearance, plus ELOQUII X kate spade new york collab just dropped
  • Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off; new markdowns just added
  • J.Crew – Up to 40% off select styles; up to 50% off cashmere
  • J.Crew Factory – End of season sale, extra 60-70% off clearance, online only
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – extra 50% off

238 Comments

  1. A moment of silence for when you unearth your pre-pandemic pants and they fit but now the rise seems shockingly low. How did we dress in Before Times? Did we look like human corgis with extra-long torsos? I feel like extra-high rise denim has (to me) the feeling of a stomach corset but regular pants hitting at the waist to me look right now.

    1. I like a slightly low rise, below the belly button for sure. If one has a pooch, it visually gets split in half so overall it looks smaller. You asked about appearance, not comfort. A higher rise is more comfortable for sure.

    2. I am team mid-rise, always and forever. An inch and a half or so below the belly button is most flattering and comfortable on my long, blocky torso. High-rise creates a pooch and saddlebags, and low-rise = exposed tummy and danger bending over.

      1. Same here. I like high rise in leggings, which are stretchy, but high-rise jeans are actually painful. And yes, I am wearing the correct size. A mid-rise works better for me.

      2. This is also the most flattering on my very short, cinched waist torso. This is just the correct rise IMO.

      3. Same. Which means my current pants fit at the waist just like my pre-pandemic pants did.

    3. I have a short (I think) torso, so I often need a mid-rise so that the waist isn’t at my ribcage. And I’m a bit of a pear, so pants often need to be taken in so they don’t droop down — the elastic waists of 2024 help immensely.

    5. Team super high rise for me.
      Mid rise is very uncomfortable for my shape, which is an X shape hourglass with a short waist and long rise. Mid-rise trousers will only fit either my hips and thighs, or my waist. Because my waist is so high, a mid rise won’t match up with my smallest part and the curves are off.

      1. Ah that’s my shape too. I have to do a classic to high rise or I’m uncomfortable all day. I don’t really tuck tops that often so it doesn’t matter that much.

      2. Same here. Hourglass/pear with a small, high waist and super high waisted is the only rise I’ll wear

    6. Honestly it always looked corgi-ish to me, although I didn’t have your excellent terminology to succinctly express my take on low rise.

    7. I already have an extra long torso so I look like a corgi on a good day. High waist jeans make my legs look longer and they aren’t actually that high on me because my torso is so dang long (seriously, I have torso, then my waist, then more torso, then my hips, followed by two little stubs for legs).

    8. I don’t know, I miss the Marissa Cooper look of low rise jeans and strappy tank tops circa 2002. But I don’t think I could wear low rise like that today – too hard to sit down or bend over, lol.

  2. Can someone explain exactly what happened to Beauty Counter? I was never really a consumer but keep seeing stuff about it closing and reopening as something else?

    1. I did buy it and liked it, and per the note from my consultant/some additional reading, it seems that it was taken over by PE (Carlyle Group, etc) in 2021 and the founder was ousted as CEO. It was mismanaged, racked up debt, and was going to be shut down. The founder bought it back and was hoping to reopen this month, but the problems seem to be deeper than expected and it won’t be until late 2024 (if it happens). I think the structure and offerings will look different, too; she was hoping to continue business as usual, but it doesn’t seem possible

      1. Private equity is a scourge. When you look at how crappy so many things are now, PE is one of the causes. Making the rich richer and just ruining everything it touches.

        2. It really is. Somebody got me to watch the Mayfair Set documentary which goes into the whole culture of vulture capitalism in the 80s, and while I’m sure there are differences, it felt much too close to home.

        3. Beauty Counter started as an MLM, so I’m not sure PE is to blame in this case (although I agree in general).

          1. Yeah they seemed over-saturated or on the verge of it – at least three moms at our local public elementary were “consultants” and that is just the count in my social circle- I’m not that popular.

            Also some EU laws were passed that require more labeling so their raison d’etre is has changed if everyone can see everyone’s ingredients

          2. Except that when PE took over they claimed it had a valuation of $1B…then it failed

      2. PE bros are all “PE buys failing companies and is net good b/c they weren’t well-run anyway”

        My hot take is that that may be true, but IMO loading things up with debt usually isn’t the secret sauce that makes them better.

        1. It’s often demonstrably false anyway (they have been buying successful, profitable companies, sell the land out from under them, and literally rent their space back to them, lol).

      4. I thought I read in Broadsheet that she was hired back by the company, but it’s still owned by PE. It was a recent email re the boomerang founder because that’s rare.

        (On the other hand I do think Alexis Bittar bought his brand back…)

      1. I know it started that way, but did it change at some point? I swear I saw those products in our local Ulta.

        1. Yes they have a partnership with Ulta. I know there’s some inherent ick with MLMs, but my sense is that “consultants” got paid a decent commission, rather than having such a big focus on cultivating down lines, etc. Maybe that led to the debt. And you could also purchase directly from the BC website if you didn’t want to use a consultant.

          1. The debt is from the leveraged buyout from PE. They saddle the companies with debt and sell them 3-5 years in to a private company or they go the IPO route. Company has to pay ALL that debt back while PE firm walks away with making a killing. Awful. Hate PE with a passion.

        2. It’s still an MLM even though they have some partnerships with brands like Ulta.
          I know several people who are still shilling products and recruiting others to join their “team.”

  3. I am not a person who is good with fashion. I’m early 40s, work in a very senior role in a somewhat formal industry and have lost a significant amount of weight recently. I also struggle to spend money on clothes and it shows. I prefer pieces that are under $100 but also know that I need to be more flexible and that my workplace trends towards higher cost items. I live in a four season climate. My office is business casual but I prefer to elevate slightly (I rarely wear jeans at work but it is very acceptable). I prefer to aim for a bit of structure/convey maturity and gravitas. I have two pairs of black pants that I think are current and fit. I’d like to spend about $1,000 and pick up enough pieces that I can mix and match for four days in the office per week for spring/summer/early fall. I don’t want to be trendy but right now I’m skewing towards dated. Send help?? Are there one or two stores that I can just focus on to accomplish what feels like a really monumental task? I looked at BR but everything was linen – how does that even work with wrinkles and real life?? I like Cos but balk at the cost and on how to make those silhouettes work for me.

    1. Spring is a hard season for finding wool pants except on Posh and Ebay. That said, if you know your size in BR, you can order a pair of lined wool pants (I like the Martin, which isn’t currently offered, and can make do with Logans) that is actually lined for <$50. Maybe try that if you are confident in your size assessment?

      And you can focus your $ on a new-season Interesting Jacket, which seems to work well with your existing pants and any new ones.

      1. And I would suggest for the OP to NOT buy stuff on Poshmark and Ebay until she’s sure of her size and style. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of stuff you can’t return.

        1. True — prior pants may have wildly different rises or cuts and may have been altered, so if you know you wear a Banana Logan 8 in 2024, the same pants may be from 2008 and fit different (but they are at least lined). It’s to spot-fill only.

      2. Agree that spring isn’t really the time to do this. The best work clothes are in autumn/winter collections.

    2. This is hard to answer in one paragraph–lots of decision making here! I suggest increasing your budget, especially if it includes shoes, outerwear, and bags. Even if it just includes shoes, comfortable and good quality shoes are expensive. I suggest reading through some of the capsule wardrobe posts at Wardrobe Oxygen. Think about a color collection that you like, your best colors, and stick with that. You need more tops than bottoms, and some toppers like blazers and cardigans. Skip linen for the office, maybe a blazer, but linen pants look pretty baggy very quickly. Perhaps a large department store with personal shoppers is the way to go….a Dillards, for example. I think those specialists could help you a lot.

    3. Try the free personal stylist service at Nordstrom, telling them exactly what you’ve written here.

      1. Except her price point for items is unreasonable at Nordstrom. To realistically get a quality wardrobe, OP needs to think about spending $250-300/pp and more for shoes. sure there’s sales and stuff, but under $100 for everything isn’t realistic.

        1. Agreed, at her level she needs to increase the budget per piece. Still, I’d go to Nordstrom and have them pick pieces to see what they suggest. When you see how particular pieces fit and their quality, consider buying a few foundational pieces (the great dress, the great jacket/blazer, the really nice pants). Don’t buy the less foundational items like the pants/skirt that feel basic or the shirts that you can duplicate at a lower price point. Buy a few pieces that you can wear a few times a week or every week, and notice what shapes and colors they pull for you. That gives you a base to start from then you can shop for shirts/shoes in your preferred price range. Also consider buying a set of shoes or purse brand that you’ve seen other women leaders wearing. Sometimes having one slightly trendy item makes me feel more in touch with fashion and you can use a purse every day.

      2. I was going to suggest this also. Additionally, $1,000 almost certainly will not be enough if you need work wear for two or three seasons. I get it. I also hate spending money on clothes because clothing isn’t my thing. But nicer clothing is going to cost more than you’re allocating.

        If you have a lot of time, then once you work with a stylist and figure out what works well for you, you could try buying some of your stuff consignment to save some money. The tradeoff there is spending time v spending money.

        1. You can’t get a wardrobe, but I’d try one good current outfit and one or two pieces that go with the servicable items OP currently owns. Furnast-blast summer may require a few other new pieces but maybe they can be from cheaper mall stores once you have a sense of style and base pieces / gaps most needing to be filled.

    4. Absolutely, positively order some COS stuff to try! You know you like it, and you’re drawn to it, and you’ve lost weight and it’s fun to wear the kind of clothes you imagined while losing weight. I just looked at their new offerings, and you can totally make those silhouettes work in an office setting. What’s your coloring, height, and body shape?

      1. I agree with this comment! plus Cos works well if your size or shape is fluctuating a bit, and it looks “different” enough to signal “upscale” without being too expensive (also less easy to recognize than e.g. prints from Ann Taylor or Banana or H&M, since it’s less common).

    5. So right now it’s spring which means everything in the stores is for summer – linen, florals, bright colours, etc. You’ll need to shop at different times of the year to have different items to wear depending on the season.

      2. I’d probably do the same. The issue with MM LaFleur for me is that it has historically been heavy on the dress looks. I think separates are more modern.

    7. I think you are underestimating the budget needed for what you want. The next level of brands above mall brands, like Theory, Vince, etc. will run around $200-$300 per piece (full price) for things like pants, more for a jacket. A budget of $3K is more realistic for this refresh.

      2. Agreed that $3,000 is more realistic here. And I also agree with an earlier poster to use one of the personal shoppers at Nordstrom (or Saks, Bloomies, etc).

      3. Chiming in to agree. I worked with a stylist for my post-retirement wardrobe and we spent about $4,000 total for clothes and shoes (although we bought a lot of stuff and it was a mix of higher-end and BR-level brands).

        1. This is sort of amazing to me (amazing that you have a banger of a wardrobe and amazing that I thought that retirement was when I finally used my immense stash of free tees with words on them). Maybe I should aim higher?

          1. I have to admit it’s pretty great to have the right clothes for every occasion. Shoot for the stars, says I!

        2. Everything about you seems to be the person I aspire to be, Senior Attorney! (Except the attorney part, lol)

    8. I would, and have, gone to Talbots for a refresh like this at this price level. They have a number of pants silhouettes so you can find something you like and then can infill blouses and sweaters from there or from other stores at will. Getting the fit of the pants is the part you should focus on now. It’s much easier to just pick up a S/M/L blouse or sweater easily on-line.

      Also, I avoid most linen. I think it’s a trend geared at more casual settings, unless we are talking about lined linen blazers.

      1. +1 for Talbots. I love how consistent their sizing is. They are one of the few brands that I’m comfortable ordering from online (I hate doing returns).

        1. also LOLing at linen being a trend. I am not a grandmother, but I have 20+ year old linen pieces.

      3. This
        Plus for a web page with inspiration try The Vivienne Files. Her thing is capsule wardrobes for a week. She’s probably 50s and classic traditional conservative style with some updates for the trends but loves color and helped me to think about my wardrobe more sustainably and interchangeably – like Lego blocks.

    9. If you wanted to stay under $1,000, what I would do is wait for a big sale weekend – memorial day is probably next – and buy a bunch of things from JCrew, Ann Taylor, Talbots, or the like. I would absolutely stick to only one or two stores, and buy pieces that complement each other, which is completely possible at these stores, which more or less put outfits together for you on the models. I’ve noticed this especially with Ann Taylor – there are a bunch of pieces that all work together. If you can go in person, I think it would be better because you could try things on. You could even go in person before the weekend, decide what you like, and then buy it all online later during the sale. I did something like this after I had my first kid because nothing fit. I was able to put together a reasonable wardrobe just at Ann Taylor. I hated it after about 9 months because I was sick of it all, but I’m a fashion girllie and need more variety!

    10. You have to stop buying cheap clothes. It doesn’t save you any money, and it doesn’t make sense for your particular situation. Increase your budget, think through what you need for a capsule wardrobe, buy staples slowly over the next few months. You won’t find all the staples you want in one season. These things take time.

      1. +1

        You need to shop consistently and be willing to spend the money. That’s how you build a wardrobe.

        1. +1 wasted too much time and money trying to make cheap things work like expensive things. Buy the nice things once and use them lots.

      2. I appreciate this and all of the comments. I know this is a weakness and I’m working on it! I have the money, but I was brought up to find a deal and spend as little as possible and old habits die hard. And again, it shows. I think I will start with the $1,000 budget but ask it to do less for me – focus on 3 or 4 pieces and build from there. I can get on board with the spend if I’m comfortable that a piece will last in terms of quality, style and size.

        2. This is the right approach. And don’t be afraid to repeat clothes! Especially something like neutral pants can be worn twice a week. No one will notice or care.

          Also — be ready to forgive yourself for making expensive mistakes. If you are thoughtful about shopping, they will be few and far between but it’s impossible to get it right 100% of the time.

        3. For $1000 I would probably get 2 good blazers/toppers, maybe 1 or 2 pairs of shoes, and spend the rest on less expensive items like nice t-shirts to wear under the blazers.

          1. What “rest” – if she’s looking for good clothing, she can’t get all of that for $1000.

          2. I was going to suggest 2 pairs pants and a blazer or cardigan. Shirts can be cheap and hard to rewear but a good pair of pants is forever.

        4. If it helps, try to factor in inflation. How much would that favorite article of clothing that you bought in 1999 or 2012 cost today?

        5. I’m going to buck the crowd and give a different input. As someone who has lost a substantial amount of weight and also did not know what styles I liked or what looked good on me at the new weight, much less if my weight was truly stable and would be the same 8 months later, I needed time to learn what style meant for me. Learning that through buying $400 items would not have been a good plan. I’d go ahead with your original plan of spending $1000 on 4 summer outfits that make you feel good.

    11. Nordstrom stylist. You’d benefit from trying different brands, styles, and by working with someone, you can add strategically in every season. Be honest about your budget and consider a capsule wardrobe for now. Nordstrom has so,e reasonably priced items and you can always add from Target, etc to fill it out.

    12. Buy second hand! I like thredup but poshmark, mecari and ebay are good options too. Buy only in excellent condition from places that allow returns. You can spend way under $100 per item items with far higher original prices.

      1. I commented above about not buying cheap clothes. The vast majority of my work clothes are purchase second hand now. But it takes time to learn which designers and which sizes work best for you. I would end up in second hand markets, but I would not start there.

        1. Completely agree — secondhand is for AFTER you’ve found the brands/styles/fit you like. The only time I have success on The Real Real is with brands that I already know work for me and understand the sizing, otherwise the shipping and return fees (not to mention being saddled with final sale items) makes for expensive mistakes when buying secondhand. But for my core brands (for me, Nili Lotan and Zero Maria Cornejo), I’m able to get great stuff for a fraction of the original prices.

    13. What a fun challenge!

      Current, but not on trend, slightly elevated business casual with a preference for structure and authority. That’s a great brief for a personal shopper.

      You should focus on fit, and have items tailored for that last finish if necessary. What kind of upkeep are you willing to do? Dry-cleaning, machine wash or hand wash? Get items that work for your lifestyle, so that you don’t spend money on dry-clean only if you know you won’t be willing to spend the money to do that. Get clothes that you are comfortable in, and that you’re not afraid to use. If you know you’ll “save” an expensive item for best, it has no value in use. Maybe aim for 4-5 years of wear, not “timeless”.

      Look at materials and textures for an elevated look. Don’t get suiting in shiny polyester or poly blends (that can look like cheap uniforms), but look for blazers/toppers in textures like hopsack wool, or boucle wool or cotton. If you are drawn to Cos, you probably like a monochrome look. One of the secrets to make monochrome interesting and elevated is to play with textures. Linen is actually quite nice to wear – and it’s supposed to wrinkle – but if you feel scruffy with wrinkles, don’t get that! If you do look at a linen blazer, look for a darker colour to be able to use it for more than the warmest season. You can make a dark navy linen work in September, but not a light blue one.

      For your budget, try to spend more than your preferred 100 on blazers/toppers. Maybe look for items in the 250-300 range for now. A relaxed fit blazer in a medium dark neutral can be versatile. If you like double-breasted ones, don’t button them when you style them. You could also make toppers like a “Chanel style” cropped boucle jacket or cardigan work.

      Don’t get any more black trousers for now. If you get trousers, get a different colour to work with summer tops. If you look good in black and want to wear a lot of black, that’s fine, but otherwise don’t think that “work pants” have to be black. If you do get jeans, get a current fit and dark wash.

      If you wear tees as tops, get really good quality ones, and hang-dry after washing to keep them nice. Look for seam finishing on the inside, thicker (not see-through) materials and flattering necklines.

      Being well-groomed will also elevate whatever you wear, and will be part of the look. Do you have pierced ears, wear a nice pair of simple and forgettable earrings. A simple necklace or silk scarf. Do you wear makeup – blusher and mascara and groomed eyebrows.

      And – most importantly – when you buy stuff, wear it! Make note of how you feel, what you enjoy wearing the most and why. Capsule wardrobes, project 33 challenges etc can be inspiration for mix and match, as well as travel capsules for conferences.

      Try this budget range to get comfortable with spending more money: 250-300 for toppers, 50-150 for tops, 150-200 for bottoms, 150-250 for shoes.

      Elevated denim:
      https://www.cos.com/en_usd/women/womenswear/trousers/product.wide-leg-tailored-denim-trousers-blue.1222522001.html

      Elevated tee:
      https://www.cos.com/en_usd/women/womenswear/t-shirts/product.short-sleeve-knitted-t-shirt-white.1069400006.html

      Summer topper style 1:
      https://www.nordstrom.com/s/effie-fringe-detail-tweed-jacket/7731337?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=900

      Spring/summer/autumn blazer:
      https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=882815012&vid=1&searchText=linen%20blazer#pdp-page-content

      Relaxed, linen blend but elevated blazer (will drape and wrinkle) for spring/autumn:
      https://www.cos.com/en_usd/women/womenswear/blazers/product.longline-linen-blend-blazer-black.1218232001.html

      If you get the same in a thin wool, it will be more versatile, though, (BR will have that). And then in five years time, do an upgrade to Boss or Ralph Lauren.

  4. When you’re laid off and job searching, it feels like any small action can make or break your chances, so wanted to get a quick sanity check.

    I found a job posting that said resumes could be emailed to careers at company dot com. I sent an email from Gmail with my resume attached in PDF format. I got an automated message back that my email was blocked. There is a recruiter listed in the posting on LinkedIn. Would it be okay to message them to let them know about the issue? I feel like sending an email from Gmail is pretty standard.

    There is a basic form on their website to fill out for the job, but it asks for stuff like current and desired salary, which I would rather not discuss right now. I would rather email and include a short message in addition to my resume.

    1. Yes, I would definitely reach out to the recruiter and tell them you’re interested and what they suggest for submitting your resume.

    2. That is a bit strange. I think I would try one of my other email addresses (I have a Microsoft one and probably an Apple one too) and see if it’s also blocked as my next step. Then I’d set a filter to forward me any replies to my usual email, and also check the non-preferred mail box for a while.

    3. Bleh, it asked current salary? In some states in the US, that’s breaking the law! Not that you can mention that and have any relationship going forward with the company, which really grinds my gears, but just know that it’s not okay in many states!

    5. Definitely would suggest you reach out to the recruiter to introduce yourself and share that your gmail was blocked.

    6. At the bottom of the company careers site there is probably an “contact us for IT issues” email or form. Try emailing that if it seems secure (https://)

  5. How normal is it to have a constant influx of new hires that last for less than six months? I work for a sales-adjacent company. It’s a large global company. My team has about 45 people and we are constantly hiring. Literally always. Every 2-3 months, a new group of 5-6 people start. Within a few months, most have not met the required metrics and are terminated.
    This feels icky to me. My company overhires, knowing most people won’t make it through the training period. I know that certainly was not disclosed to me when I was interviewing.
    This is a new field to me (second career) and I truly value my job because it pays very well and provides incredible flexibility. I have significant family caregiving responsibilities, including a child with medical needs, and this is the only way I can “have it all” in terms of career and family. But I can’t shake the icky feeling!

    1. Mostly this seems like a terrible waste of company resources. Something is wrong either with how you hire or how you train.

    2. That is gross and problematic. At the very least, it should be disclosed up front that the goal is to cast a wide net and see who works.

      A more functional org would revamp its processes. Look over the resumes, interviews, and recommendations of the hires that worked out and the ones that flamed out. Talk to other people in the industry and learn what they do – maybe testing during the hiring process? More mentorship when they get there? Perhaps the internal processes for this role are overly cumbersome and leave new hires feeling like they are frittering their time away.

      I would also say that 3-6 months isn’t enough time. It takes many people that long to hit their stride.

    3. Ugh — I feel like sales has a known wash-out rate. Not sure how close to sales you are, but often they know that they need to seem to overhire, particularly where there is a low barrier to entry. Car and real estate sales and financial advisors are like this — if you’re good at it, you can be a high school dropout and get paid well. But it’s not for everyone and you only find that out the hard way.

      1. OP here. Just once I wish I could post here without getting a snarky response. I’m asking a legitimate question, posted clearly that this is a second career for me, and was not sure if this is normal or not. Is this true of sales? I have no idea! Your answer provided absolutely no explanation or clarification

          1. So much unnecessary rudeness.

            I’m 30+ years in marketing and actually hasn’t been my experience with sales at all. I’ve worked with teams in health tech, fin tech, and media. In fact, I’ve seen a lot of folks who probably should have been cut sooner. Agree with the person upthread that it sounds like a recruitment, training, or goal issue. Industry does matter, too. Does the sales person need niche knowledge and connections, and is the sales cycle long and made by buying teams or individuals? Makes a big difference in the ramp they’ll be given.

        2. I’m not in a sales role, nor am I sales adjacent, but my cousin’s husband went through 11 sales jobs in 10 years before my cousin finally divorced him. This was in high tech, not like a used car sales lot. I think he was an extreme case, but a lot of turnover is normal in sales.

          1. My husband was not a sales dude. He had to try it thanks to Great Recession. He enjoyed the one-on-one meetings and definitely thought more of sales as a skill, but he never mastered it and lasted six months. He was 37 or so.

        3. I’ve grown to accept the snark on this board. These people are not your friends. If you don’t want the snark, then don’t post on a public anonymous board. Go talk to your friends if you want nice people and post here if you want no sugar coating. This mentality has helped me interact with the board and lower my expectations sadly.

          2. I found a ton of responses on yesterday’s afternoon post unnecessarily rude, but I didn’t clutch my pearls at this one. I think OP is just exasperated by her situation, which I totally understand. I had to lay off a bunch of “good enough” people in a prior job and it was absolutely awful. That company had gone on a hiring binge, told me to interview and hire a bunch of people, which I did, then a year-ish later, told me to pick 20% to lay off. Eff Corporate America.

          3. Yeah, I mean if I asked a genuine question and some guy were to respond to me with “Yes my dear, this is the nature of sales. It’s not a big secret.” I’m sure I wouldn’t find that rude in the least.

            Gross.

      2. I wonder if it depends on the type of sales. DH is in sales selling IT-type equipment, and probably 90 percent of the sales team has been at the company for five years or more. I also know a few people in pharma sales who have been at their same employers for years.

        I get the impression that things like selling cars has very high turnover at the bottom rungs.

        I also wonder if it depends on the compensation structure. If the comp structure is a good base pay plus commissions, maybe people stay longer because they do get paid even as they’re ramping up. But if the comp structure is straight commission and the person is just learning sales and has a slow start, and thus isn’t making any money, then the person leaves to get a job that has a stead paycheck. I don’t actually know this to be true. I’m brainstorming.

    5. Cloudflare received some publicity earlier this year about doing this. A Google search will show several articles, apparently the company over hires sales executives, and decides within 90 days if the employee will be kept or not.

    6. I once was in a chamber of commerce young professionals networking group. Every few months, there was a huge influx of NY Life sales agents trying to get you to buy term life insurance or solar promoters trying to get people to switch their energy provider. It very much seemed like a sink or swim sales environment.

  6. I grew up and spent young adulthood in big driving cities where you never, ever encountered anyone you knew out of context. We now live in a very localized suburb of a smaller city where I cannot go anywhere without running into an acquaintance. There is a coffee shop where I like to work that is also the hot spot for people to meet up. Every time I go there are people I know having conversations, sometimes related to the business of an org for which I volunteer. I try to sit as far away from them as possible but I still feel like an accidental eavesdropper. Should I give up on this coffee shop or is this just normal small-town life?

    3. Definitely normal! They know they live in a small town, and I’m sure they know it’s likely someone they know could overhear.

    4. Very normal. I’m in a big city but still randomly run into people I know frequently. It’s fun – makes my city feel like home.

      They do say Philly is the biggest small town out there and it’s true!

      2. +2 – i run into some colleagues more often around town than I do in the building.

    5. It’s not an “either/or” question. This is normal small-town life AND it can bother you and you decide to go elsewhere. Totally up to you.

    6. This is totally normal in my Midwest college town, which is probably even more localized than the suburb of a big city. Honestly it’s one of my favorite things about living here – especially with kids. It’s so nice that my kid will find a friend basically anywhere we go.

      Agreed that if anyone should feel bad, it’s the people gossiping, not the accidental eavesdropper. If you feel really awkward about it, you could put in earbuds (even w/o music) to give the appearance that you can’t hear.

    7. No need to give up on your coffee shop – this is where a pair of over-the-ear noise cancelling headphones means you won’t be eavesdropping and also signals to others that you are working. Love mine so hard.

    8. This is totally normal in my neighborhood in NYC! It’s rare that I leave the house and not see a single person I know.

    9. If your problem is feeling like an accidental evesdropper, then I’d go with the over the ear headphones that will block out their conversations and make it clear you’re not evesdropping. If the problem is you cannot get anything done because people keep stopping by your table to say hi and chat, then I’d find a new coffee shop. As an introvert who likes having a coffee shop as a third place to read or work, this would make me batty. At my regular coffee shop, I know the people who work there and chat briefly as I order. But once I sit down, I don’t want to be interrupted.

    10. Small town life. I live in a town of 10,000, which is very walkable. We’ve only been here 3 years, but I can’t go out without seeing 3 or 4 people I know. I grew up in a Californian suburb and had similar encounters, and my London born husband was so confused! “Is your dad the mayor? How does he KNOW everyone?”

    12. If you want to avoid anyone you know in a small town you’re going to need to become a hermit.

  7. How do I begin to have this conversation:
    I work with some newer hires. I don’t need to work with them (not my department), but I give them work because their department is very slow and because I usually like working with new hires. One seems to think that she is only meant for very important things and this work is beneath her and has yelled at staff, but the other two are very nice people. Their department will likely fire them for being slow in 1-2 years, and while I probably can’t secure their future, our city has lots of work in my area. They don’t seem to be mastering the material or working to understand it (like they do work when they have a billable task, but I don’t get the feeling that they make efforts outside of that). If they really mastered the material, I’d bring them to meet client and include them in more things, which would likely help them long-term. But I don’t know how to say (maybe their law schools didn’t) that they really need a massive influx of their free time to learning a practice area in their first few years of working. I do formally train them, but if they are slow, every minute should be doing something to help make them a valuable team member with skills and knowledge (not just someone who gets work out of, in my case, pity).

    [Or is this crazy older person thinking? I know I can’t expect or make them do this, but absent getting real-world experience that trains them up, they need to just put in the hours and hope that the work follows. If not in my subject area, something that may have a future in it.]

    1. I’m the mentor of a young female profesional that fit that description. I tried several times to explain her that she should be putting more hours to learn and adquire experience is she want to continue in my line of work no matter her current paycheck. No improvement, she want to make her hours and go home (gym, BF, whatever)
      I brought my worries to our support group (the mentoring is part of our professional asociation) and the anwer was unamosly: you have done your best, let it go, life will teach her and it is not your responsability.

      1. Working your required hours and going home is not something that should be looked down on!

        1. Hard agree, especially when your worth is determined by billable hours. Does your firm factor in any training or professional development time within their expected billable hours expectations? Is there professional development that you can recommend they do with time compensated or with the firm footing the bill? Do you have set resources you want them to review or are they expected to source their own resources and determine if they are worthwhile/accurate?

          Work-life balance is increasingly important for younger generations. If you want them to do additional training and learning, I think it’s right that they either get compensated or have something tangible like PD credits to validate their newly acquired experience. Especially to help them have credentials when seeking new cases or new practice areas.

          1. But where the job sounds like BigLaw, you get paid six figures and can at least pretend to do work or be current in your assigned area. This is different from stocking shelves at Food Lion (but if we were done, if we were on the clock, we were expected to be cleaning and returning items that were misplaced throughout the store — very “be busy or go home”).

        2. I feel like in some jobs, “meets basic standards” is OK. But not all jobs are like that and that may be enough to stay but not survive something like a RIF.

        3. I don’t look down on it, but you are never, ever going to make a lot of money and advance if you don’t have passion for what you do and work beyond the minimum requirement. Some people don’t want that life, and I respect that. The problem lies when people want the money and lifestyle but not the work ethic.

          1. Having a great work ethic does not equal working unpaid overtime.

            I have a great work ethic. I do my job well. I can still do it in 40 hours a week.

          2. …then you’re probably going above and beyond within those 40 hours. That’s also a great work ethic.

          3. Actually a great work ethic is more than just high quality output—it’s putting in effort to go beyond when needed.Literally that’s what it is.

            Paid overtime is literally for hourly workers.

          4. The comment about “unpaid overtime” perfectly encapsulates the issue (which my office is also having). When you are getting paid six figures straight out of law school, you are expected to work more than 40 hours a week. You are in fact expected to meet your billable requirement (at least on paper – we all understand your time is going to get cut because you are learning or billed at paralegal rate because our clients will not pay for first year associates) AND do non-billable work. And if you are not meeting your billable requirement, you better be beating the bushes for work and be open to learning/doing more or you are going to get fired. (And I mean actually fired; my firm is over paying people who will not actually work and who we have been losing money on for a year an additional six months to find a new position.)

            We have people who are willing to put in the time because they want to succeed and make the money that goes along with that. We have people – and unfortunately in my office they are mostly, although not exclusively, women – who are not and will not last. And that might be their plan – make the $$$ for a few years, pay down their loans, and move to a smaller firm, in-house or to a government role with better work-life balance. But many of them seem completely clueless and keep repeating things like “unpaid overtime” and “my working hours” as if they were hourly employees.

        4. I agree. OP was talking about associates who were not making hours and are in danger of losing their jobs in 1-2 years. If they aren’t gaining enough experience to develop skills or subject matter expertise, their job searches are going to be difficult.

          If an associate is meeting hours expectations and they want to stay in a firm for the long haul, they should be developing their professional network to eventually get clients. The most successful firm lawyers I know are those who met hours and who were willing to work late when actually needed and who otherwise left to be involved in their communities–non-profit boards, bar associations, neighborhood associations, kids’ school, kids’ sports, religious communities, etc. In my area, at least, that’s what gets you a book of business and gets you partnership.

          1. Telling people you’re ok if you work your 40 hours is not going to help them when they get laid off! It’s better to know the reality of the situation up-front.

        6. You can think that, but if you’re a salaried professional looking to get ahead, it’s not going to work out well for you. It maybe should not, but it is.

        7. No if you are not able to do your job correctly but if you are falling due to lack of skills/experience and you have already receive a warning from your employer as her, well or you find the time to learn or you are going to be fired.
          We are both the first people in our families to go to college, I would have killed for having the oportunity our association is giving her (Our industry is construction no big law, but she is choosing a career path quite demanding)

    2. the problem is even if you read every white paper under the sun, you don’t absorb things as well as when you have a real, live, practical example to wrestle with.

      More effective – let them (non-billable) listen in on calls and take 10 minutes to debrief with them. Then see if they can apply lessons learned to their work product.

      I would not continue to give work to the rude one.

      1. True. And yet if you went to law school and avoided bankuptcy, securities regulation, creditors rights, business associations, secured transactions, and real estate transactions (i.e., you were top 10 and law review and got hired in spite of your classes), please realize that you do need to learn that if it is relevant to your practice area. Not knowing this stuff will tank you in the end (and in the meantime, what are you doing with your time? Law school is the beginning of the time investment in learning, not the end.

        ALSO, if there is major new legislation or agency rulemaking in your area, plan to review that the day it comes out. Not in a month or after someone else writes the client alert.

      2. +1. FWIW, I’m a 40-year-old lawyer, specialize in a certain area of regulatory law, and moved from a firm to in-house about a year and a half ago. When I was starting out in my area of law, it didn’t matter how many white papers I read or how many times I read the rules, I didn’t become an expert until I had an opportunity to practice applying the rules to facts. I had mentors who brought me to client things or let me sit in on calls and just told the client that they were getting two for the price of one that day. Then they’d debrief with me and let me make the first attempt at the billable work, and they’d write off a good bit of my time. You don’t have to do this, especially with associates who are rude or even those who aren’t engaged with the billable work to the degree you’d like. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect an associate to master anything by reading alone in their office, or to reach a certain level of expertise before they can talk to a client.

        I also believe people are more willing to put in the work when they find something they’re interested in. I worked on securities litigation for about a year as a young lawyer. I was bored to tears, and I never would have stayed after hours to read up on that area of law. Once I figured out what I was interested in, I joined the association for that subject matter and made it a habit to read their daily publications and forums and to attend their webinars.

    3. I would schedule individual meetings with the two nice ones or even grab coffee together and have a chat about all this. I would give your thoughts on the state of the market and explain that your practice areas is in demand so there could be a long-term future for them in that work in the city. And ask if that interests them. If they have no interest in your work, unless there are other reasons you give them assignments (like having no juniors on your team) then I would step back. If they are interested, then have an honest chat about what that means, and what they should do to get up to speed so they can start to learn and grow in that area. In the meantime, keep things interesting for them by inviting them to calls and meetings if you can write off the time or have them bill to a non-billable code.

    4. What are you envisioning them doing? I did things like client alerts, case summaries for a bar association, working on model rules with a committee of local lawyers when I was a young associate. All non-billable, but still very formal routes of gaining experience and exposure. These weren’t ideas I came up with on my own, though. I had partners ask if I would be willing to do X or Y nonbillable task and I agreed.

      Or do you mean they should be reading opinions and other unstructured studying during their spare time? Because there would have been active pushback at my firm if I was doing that, with the idea that I should be seeking out billable work of any kind or at least non-billable work that helped the firm. Is it possible they have run into this sentiment?

      1. IDK but at our firm, we have people at <30% utilization who have either given up asking for work or don't get that they are likely to be let go. Each day you should be spending at least 8 hours on billable work and hunting for it every day (this is a sales job and they need to sell their time). Someone may come find you, but every moment they don't, you need to find them. NEED TO.

          1. IDK that it is psychotic. But it’s the only place I know of where you can make 6 figures and not do very much work. Bojangles would not be forgiving like that. At BigLaw, you make the same until you are truly over busy, so I get that the people at full utilization hate people who are significantly less busy. It is an insane model. I wouldn’t feel too bad for the slow people — they make an insane amount of $, so if they are smart, that will set them up for the inevitable “it’s time to move on” talk and the next job.

          2. Sitting around waiting for work to fall in your lap is not a good career development strategy. Sorry you think that is psychotic, and sorry how this attitude is going to affect your career. If you don’t have family money or a winning lottery number, you better be developing your earning potential.

        2. There is literally no way to spend 5 hours a day hunting for work. When I was a first year, the office was slow. About once a week, I would go around to all of the senior associates and many partners and ask for work. Sometimes I would get work, but often I wouldn’t. But if I did that every day, it would just annoy people.

          FWIW, I was at that firm for 6 years, was highly respected, and on track to make partner until I left for the better work life balance in the government.

          1. I’m so fascinated by this. At my first firm job (accounting), we were often told we needed to ask for work. So I did. And I’d get told, “Oh, we received some client files, you can organize them.” OK, fine. That took me half an hour. Am I really going to go back to the partner, who is swamped by mountains of work, to be like, “um, hi, I finished that, please sir, may I have some more?”

            Generally the folks above me at that job were terrible at delegating, and if I had asked for work whenever I was out of it I would never have been out of their hair, and that’s an issue much bigger than me. But I did say, “Anything else? I don’t think organizing files will take me very long.” Repeatedly.

            And then I’d get dinged at reviews for not having enough billable hours. It was infuriating.

    5. You want them to put in a massive influx of time into learning your area when they don’t even work for you and they’re going to get fired anyway? Why are you being so cray? Just stop giving them work if they aren’t meeting your standards and move on.

    6. If I were about to drown and didn’t seem to know how to save myself, I would appreciate a talk. I was a first-generation law school student who had no idea about anything. My parents were municipal workers, which is a different sort of work culture. Law school teaches law to people as if they know how the business of law works. Not how to be a successful associate.

    7. The idea of a junior associate yelling at staff is so foreign to me. I’m surprised the rude yeller associate is still employed unless the partners somehow don’t know about this?
      If you wanted, you could give business development work to these associates or they could take on pro bono projects in their practice area to learn skills they can transfer to billable work. It’s harder since these associates aren’t in your practice area and I’m not sure how much you can do honestly.

      1. We had this and the attorney (female; staff is also female) was indignant. Two partners attempted to explain how the attorney was in the wrong . . . to no avail. I hear that she has been quiet fired but as long as someone is feeding her work, it’s anyone’s guess b/c so many people are slower now.

    8. Huge caveat that I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know lawyer-norms. I work with a ton of early career professionals. For the 2 nice ones, I would start with individual conversations of what you basically said right here. Our city has lots of work in this area, it could be beneficial for you long term to build your skills and meet clients, if you’d be interested in working up to that please let me know. If they come to you and express interest, then let them know what they need to do. If they don’t, then stop throwing them pity work. You can only mentor someone who wants to be mentored.

      1. Is it a Steamfast or Vornado? I had one of those and wasn’t using it for that very reason. I got notified recently that there’s a recall on some models due to burns from said water drops. Worth checking if you’re not in a hurry to get a new one. I filled out the paperwork and was told to expect a replacement in 6-8 weeks.

      2. You bet! Need to sign up for a (free) membership/login, but no problems–it’s a deal-a-day site, like the old Woot! model.

  9. Has anyone tried the Left on Friday swimsuits? I love the cut (particularly the high waisted bottom) but the lack of cups in the top is intimidating to me. I’m small chested and generally prefer cups for shaping and to minimize headlights when cold. I’d consider ordering one and getting a tailor to put in cups if it the suit is otherwise great!

    1. I find that the lining tends to roll out of the edges of my suit. I like my Andie one much better.

    2. I have a one piece from Left on Friday that I really like – the weekender. I am also small chested, but prefer no cups.

      1. Same—I saw the brand on social media the other day and was intrigued. I always remove the cups—hate them. Headlights don’t bother me, so not something I consider. Would love to hear experiences with the brand.

  10. Very low stakes question – I need a big bowl with a lid to take a large salad to a group event on Mother’s Day this weekend. I’m thinking of just heading over to HomeGoods and seeing what they have, but wanted to see if the hive had any recs for a must have salad bowl.

    1. If it doesn’t need to be cute, you can get giant pyrex ones with lids at Target / Walmart, etc. I used them for mixing, popcorn, salads, etc.

      1. This is the answer. They come in sets and have big plastic lids. I use them for a lot of things.

        1. I have one of those sets and it is super useful. It ranges from giant bowl down to about cereal bowl size, all with well fitting matching lids. This set does some heavy lifting in my kitchen.

    2. I have one from Crate and Barrel that has utensils built into the lid and a section that pops off so you can add an ice pack. Mine is at least a decade old and I don’t know if it’s available anymore, but it is such a workhorse.

  11. Albion Fit bathing suits are stalking me. Does the Hive like? Dislike? I need a new suit — I have a wardrobe of sturdy ones bought when my kids were very little and they refuse to die, but they have become unflattering since I’ve changed weight / shape.

    1. I ordered one last year and was not impressed. Was not flattering as I expected, especially for the price. I’ve had better luck with Cupshe, which was much less expensive also.

      1. I had the same experience. For a similar price point, I’ve been impressed by suits from Nani and Kiava.

    2. I haven’t ordered but have considered it in the past. They look like the same cuts from some of the cheap generic sellers on Amazon so I’d be surprised if they weren’t from the same factory.

    3. I bought a few suits from them when I was postpartum as they were somewhat flattering two piece suits with a ruched bottom. They have not held up well. They are all dying (stretched out, pilling, etc.), and I’ve only had them for 2-3 years.

    4. My friend bought one new, it arrived clearly already worn/stretched out, and the customer service rep told her that her “obviously large breasts” must have stretched it out when she tried it on. Hard pass.

    5. Are they Lands End? I swear if LE did a collab with literally any other swimwear brand (their technology, someone else’s colors & cuts) would buy the h3ll out of it.

  12. Albion Fit bathing suits are stalking me. Does the Hive like? Dislike? I need a new suit — I have a wardrobe of sturdy ones bought when my kids were very little and they refuse to die, but they have become unflattering since I’ve changed weight / shape.s

  13. Re Ukraine/Russia, it seems like things have ramped up on the Russian assault side lately. Putin just was re-re-re-reinstalled in office. How long can this status quo go on? IDK what the end game is, but even if he takes Ukraine (or just stays put at current areas under control), my sense is the Ukraine can’t be gently folded in now. The earth has been salted. But on the Russian side, how many people want their sons fighting? I don’t read anything about Wagner after last summer (maybe they’re all in Africa?), so IDK who is fighting now. But once this is done, then what? Poland? Moldova? Does he want a land bridge to Kalliningrad?

    1. I read that Russia has been relying at times on poor and marginalized ethnic minorities to get around the “who wants their sons fighting?” problem as well as the problem of many Russians just not wanting to treat Ukrainians categorically as enemies. IIRC it came up because there were concerns about the ethics of the recruitment practices. But remember that Russia has invested heavily in what Russians believe and want!

      Putin wants everything Russia ever had; he wants to “make Russia great again” Dugin style. Ukraine has been a thorn in Russia’s side since the enslaved serfs used to flee to the Donbas counting on Cossacks to ward off the police whose job it was to capture fleeing serfs. And if Kiev is Ukrainian, then Russia is bereft of an origin story in Russ. Meanwhile Ukrainians feel that Russia’s real origins are in Moscow’s choice to make a deal with the Golden Horde. So the earth’s been salted for centuries now.

    2. I vaguely recall reading an article that said mercenaries from Nepal are sent to the front lines for Russia.

  14. is there anything to do near the Portland, OR airport? we will be spending one night for a flight that doesn’t leave the following day until mid afternoon with two 6 year olds, so are trying to figure out if we should stay at an airport hotel? somewhere else? and what should we do in the morning before our flight. we probably won’t have that much time, but like 2-3 hours.

    1. The airport is pretty close to the city center, 15-20 minute cab ride.
      The zoo is awesome for kids and opens at 9:30 so you could easily get in there for a couple of hours before a ~2 pm flight. And Voodoo Donuts!

      1. Agreed. The zoo is great, and six year olds would also love OMSI, which is accessible by streetcar. Forest Park is fun if you’re more interested in a hike.

    2. Don’t have anything in particular to suggest, but Portland is a smallish town and the airport is close-in, so I don’t really think staying right next to the airport is necessary. You might want to check out the Portland Japanese Gardens. It’s pretty and the kids can run off some energy before the flight.

    3. This is kind of random, but there is a marina with a restaurant close to the airport. Our kids enjoyed it and we had fun thinking about whether we could live in one of the little marina dock houses!

  15. Boomer rant. My office is between two (young, as in early ~60s) boomers who sometimes work together. I don’t work with either of them. They both leave their doors open when they are on calls, which they take on speakerphone. They are often on the same call at the same time. Because their doors are open and their offices are so close, there is a noticeable echo and sometimes feedback. This is very annoying to everyone in the office, not to mention the people on their calls. They both complain about the phones “not working”. Many people have tried to explain the problem. They refuse to believe they are the cause of the issue, or that they could do something as simple as CLOSING THEIR DOOR which they should be doing while on speaker anyway. They insist this is a technology problem that must be fixed so they don’t have to make even the slightest most obvious change in their routine. The world should mold around them, whatever the cost.

    Anecdotally I’ve seen this attitude a lot among young boomers. On two different occasions in the past couple months, several women in their 60s refused to scooch one seat over in a shared space like a bar or picnic table to make room for people to sit with their friends or family. I was here first this is my seat she can take the empty seat so she is sitting 6 people away from her shy 14 year old who has never met any of these people. In another instance, they refused to move so one bridesmaid who was cleaning up tables and kindly refreshing THEIR drinks could sit with the other bridesmaids at the opposite end of the table. I don’t remember this entitled passive aggressive belligerence from older boomers when they were this age. These people are far too young to be so stuck in their ways! What is the deal with this?

    1. I have closed people’s office doors for them when they’re being loud. I do it nicely, like “Don’t mind me, I’m just going to close this while you’re on the phone so you’re not disturbed!” But yeah, when people are too stupid or stubborn you need to take things into your own hands.

      1. I used to work in an office at the end of the hall surrounded by empty cubicles & no other offices. If I didn’t keep my door open, the HVAC didn’t work. So yeah, I took some speakerphone calls with my door open. But a couple of times, a woman from about 50 yards down the hall would come close my door. Which was no big deal. So you could do that.

        PS not a boomer

      2. Yeah, I feel like this has always been standard in any office I’ve worked in.

        Signed,

        Young Boomer

    2. you can leave boomer out of this and convey the same irritation. For your office example, I would get up and close their doors for them.

    3. Have you told them directly that speakerphone calls with an open door interrupt your work? In similar situations I have physically closed someone’s door for them. I also got a set of headphones from IT, gave them to the person, and showed them how to plug them into their phone (nicely, of course). It’s possible they may not know how to go about obtaining/using headphones. Of course this may not work based on the dynamics of your office.

    4. People of all ages can be self-involved idiots. I would close their doors every time they’re on speaker phone with a small wave.

    5. Snarky suggestion: get building services to change their door hinges so they swing closed unless propped open.

    6. Wow. Substitute almost any other identity, and this post would have been taken down. The issue is more likely with you, your attitude, and your prejudices.

    7. I’m more willing than others on this board to let some of the generational snark roll.

      People do have different experiences in life depending on when they were born. Boomers born in the late 50s/early 60s had is MADE: their parents generally had amassed more wealth by the time they were born (they weren’t immediately post war); they didn’t get drafted for Vietnam; college wasn’t crazy expensive (expensive, yes, insanely, no); they could send their kids to college before the current crazy prices; they bought cheap starter homes; their retirement funds are probably secure.

      Obviously there are exceptions! But these people really hit an unusual jackpot and it shows in the way they think about life.

      1. Largely true for the white men.

        Not quite such a walk in the park for everybody else.

    8. Their lack of consideration and deficits in basic office etiquette do not excuse your ageism. Jerks exist across the board and are not limited to any particular generation, gender identity, religion, race, national origin or socioeconomic status. Age is a protected class under federal equal employment opportunity protections. Sure hope you are at and stay at the bottom of the heirarchy at your place of work and do not have any power over other employees.

  16. Help me out: I bought a pair of shoes online. I hated them and so I set up an online return. Printed the return label, intended on sticking them back in the mail, but then I happened to be going to the mall anyway so I returned them in person and got my money back. Then today, about a week later, I see the money was returned to my card a second time!

    My theory is this happened because when someone starts an online return the company automatically refunds the money after a certain time period regardless if they’ve actually received the return. So basically I’m wondering if I got free money or will they figure it out when the shoes don’t show up…? Either way it’s fine, but I just thought it was kind of strange!

    2. Chances are that they’ll reverse the online return when they don’t receive a pair of shoes under that bar code/tracking number from you. I would not count on anyone being able to figure this out over the phone, unless you can just tell them to cancel the online return. I’d probably wait for it to sort itself out, but don’t count on free money.

    3. i’d email them. eventually the accounting of this will catch up and I’d rather just have a neutral cc bill now rather than a surprise “anti-refund” a month later or whenever.

  17. If you are the parent of a teen or tween with a chronic medical condition, or if you yourself were diagnosed with a chronic medical conditions in childhood, would love to hear your input on when and how to start involving a teen (or making a teen aware) of the logistical and financial issues associated with treatment. We have a ninth grader with IBD – she takes an incredibly expensive biologic drug and requires a lot of other specialist care. We have great health insurance, but dealing with preauthorizations, bills getting miscoded, making sure the correct lab is used for bloodwork, etc. is a massive endeavor – and even with that great insurance, we hit our $10k out of pocket max every year.

    To date, we haven’t involved our daughter in any of the insurance logistics or made her aware of how much all of this costs. But obviously, she is going to have to learn how to handle all of this herself at some point – I was dealing with my own health insurer (a student health plan) as soon as I hit college, but I didn’t have complex medical conditions, so it was pretty easy. And as our kid explores careers, she at some point needs to understand that she’s going to have to choose a job that provides health insurance and helps her earn enough to afford the care she needs (she knows her care is expensive, but she hasn’t seen actual numbers and I’m not sure how “real” they would be to her even if she had). I spent a few years bumming around the world on working holiday visas after college, relying on travel insurance and living in hostels, but that’s not going to be an option for her.

    Any wisdom on how to start laying the foundation in terms of skills to navigate managing her care, and how to start having conversations about the financial piece? Maybe we should have done some of this earlier, but she was newly diagnosed and was in terrible shape until we finally found a drug that worked, and it felt like too much.

    1. One thing that I think is important to discuss is how to pick a health care plan that has good “specialty” medication coverage. We picked a health plan based on other needs and I was later diagnosed with a chronic condition requiring a specialty medication. VERY fortunately, the plan we chose has a flat $20 copay per dose instead of 20% cost-sharing like the other plan. I was also able to get co-pay assistance from the drug manufacturer so I’ve never had to pay a copay at all. It’s huge! Otherwise, I would begin involving her in discussions and processes on a gradual basis.

    2. no advice, but I think you’re smart to be thinking about this, especially as she may choose career paths in the next few weeks — choosing ones with good health insurance or high pay should be part of her analysis from the start.

      1. A freshman in high school choosing a career path in the next few weeks? Seriously, this place is going bananas.

    3. I think you’re wise to be thinking about this. I don’t have much advice, other than targeting her having the skills and practice to handle all the logistics herself when she goes off to college is a worthy goal. There’s so much to college that is new and challenging and this is very teachable to be routine by then (though absolutely a failure of our systems that it takes this much work just to get necessary treatment—I’m sorry you have to deal with this).

      1. You’re smart to be thinking of this.

        I would take 2 approaches:
        Start with managing her care more generally – scheduling appointments, following up, etc. This is a good age for her to start being involved in medical decision making more generally anyway, and ime ~14 year olds are often very motivated by independence/being treated like adults. So this might look something like, at appointment X, Doctor Y ordered blood tests – ask her if she wants to schedule those with you. When you’re doing so, you can talk through your own process, touching on both the family logistics (is the lab close, does the appointment time work) and the financials (“so this is what prior authorization is, and we’re going to call the lab a week before to make sure they have it”).

        The other track I’d go is integrating into whatever financial planning conversations you’re having about college more generally. A big piece of info she needs is where you can and will pay for her to stay on your insurance through college? through age 26? (this is embarrassing, but as an 18 year old I did not actually realize there was a /cost/ to my parents to keep me on their insurance). I’d wrap this into a bigger conversation about college financing though instead, it seems less likely to make her worried her care is too expensive

    4. The financial piece also includes job stability. A government job with low turnover and amazing benefits (*provided those amazing benefits work for her) might be better for her than a higher paying role with more uncertainty (like sales). Or she could look into engineering – high pay straight out of school, generally stable, all that.

    5. I think this needs to be scaffolded as part of a larger plan to teach her to manage her finances and health. As the parent of a teen here is what I would do:

      Immediately: she starts taking the lead on conversations with doctors if she is not already. Get her in the habit of asking the informed consent questions and verifying all medications before they are administered.

      10th grade: give her an allowance that covers all her personal expenses. Put it in a checking account with a debit card and let her pay for all her own school supplies, clothes, toiletries, haircuts, outings with friends, etc. Help her plan for larger and seasonal purchases such as ski jackets, swimsuits, and prom dresses.

      Summer after 10th or 11th grade depending on other obligations: summer job, Then teach her to do her taxes the next April.

      Senior year: Make her an authorized user on your credit card account and get her accustomed to paying her bill in full every month. Have her start making her own medical appointments and filling her own prescriptions, with your support as necessary. Have her sit down with you when you track EOBs and medical bills. Teach her about pitfalls such as out-of-network providers and facility fees.

    6. I don’t disagree with any of the other comments but wanted to add that you can get insurance on the health care marketplace that has good specialty medication coverage. If she wants to be an artist or musician or whatever, she can still do that. (Yes it can change and she may have to pay more out of pocket.)

      1. Wait — for real? Wouldn’t she have to be a superstar artist or musician to be able to afford a marketplace plan with good specialty medication coverage? Or does this vary by state somehow?

        1. Yeah, not one musician I know could afford that. They all have salaried positions for the employer health insurance as well as the income stability, then freelance on the side.

          1. I’m the anon above and you can get those plans for a few hundred dollars a month. Ask me how I know! I’m not saying she can be an absolute starving artist but I wouldn’t tell a 9th grader they need to get a government job for the health insurance when there are other options.

    7. If you haven’t yet, it might be worth asking this exact question of the Crohn’s & Colitis foundation? I’ve found that they’re wonderful for assembling resources and emailing them back to me. I don’t know if they are too sanguine about this particular issue, but certainly many people have faced it before! It sounds like there is an opportunity to just handle some of this side-by-side so she has the skills going forward.

      If she’s the kind of ninth grader who gets mad about injustices, Dr. Glaucomflecken has some cathartic comedy sketches about the absurdities of the system. Some Gen-Z YouTuber has “A terrible guide to the terrible terminology of U.S. Health Insurance” compiled after he messed up his own insurance and had to learn this stuff the hard way. Maybe her generation has its own guides / rants somewhere!

    8. I had to fill out the insurance claim forms starting in 2nd grade (back in the 70s). Now that things are online and all, you could give your daughter access to your online insurance portal, and have her click around to get familiar with the terminology and coverage. Tweens absolutely can handle this level of involvement.

    9. I don’t think middle school is even too early to get your child involved in their own Life Admin. You could start with a conversation, which gives a big picture overview of the things involved in managing one’s own medical care as an adult. You can mention that right now her parent/s do this for her, but you think she is of an age to start getting an understanding. See how she responds. You could start just with walking through the paperwork of it all, and having her begin to pre-handle (with your final oversight)

    10. I have a 16 year old daughter with two chronic autoimmune conditions that require frequent appointments and very expensive medication, so I understand your fears, but I’m going to go against the grain here. It is too early (and, frankly, too inconvenient for you) for her to be scheduling her appointments and handling billing logistics. I wouldn’t worry too much about maturity — she’s already had to overcome major challenges getting healthy. Also, unless the law changes, she can stay on your healthcare until she’s 26 if she needs to– another decade!

      My own daughter is responsible for keeping track of when she needs to take medicine, refilling her prescriptions and giving herself injections. She also takes the lead in communicating with all of her doctors at the appointments.
      Since a parent needs to be with her at appointments until she’s 18, I don’t see any value in having her schedule, and insurance isn’t going to let her talk to them about pre-approvals, etc. When the time comes, she’ll figure it out like we all did and can call for help when needed.

      Re: the financials – If she’s anything like my daughter and her friends, she’s probably pretty sensitive to perceived criticism and can wildly misinterpret conversations with parents. I think you need to be very careful not to send the message that you resent the amount of money you need to spend on her care and make her think that you somehow blame her for being sick. I think you should hold off being more explicit about the specific costs until she’s older – perhaps as part of the conversation about paying for college leading into her senior year. I’d actually be more concerned about her internalizing a message that she’s limited by her illness than the opposite.

    11. I have a chronic condition that was diagnosed as a teen. I don’t know how overly beneficial the financial logistics would have been other than what the concept of insurance is. When I started working, the affordable care act didn’t exist so your employer wasn’t required to cover every disease in the same way. And even though I have a very well paying job with many policies and prescription coverage now, my insurer decided not to cover the meds I have been on for years this year so I have to pay more. It’s a crap shoot what her expenses will even be.

  18. Interviewing tips? I’m oftening finding that the panel interviewing me have a list of questions, and I’ll answer questions 3 and 4 during questions 1 and 2. When they get to 3 and 4, they’ll say “oh you already answered this this, anything else to add?”

    I’m worried I’m sharing too much in my answers to questions 1 and 2, perhaps expanding too much to also answer subsequent questions without realizing it.

    I don’t think I’m too wordy. A recruiter recently said I’m very straightforward and to the point, and I don’t run over in interviews.

    I generally use examples with the STAR method (situation, task, action, result) to describe how I face a problem and solve it.

    1. I often sit on a panel of interviewers with a standard list of questions. I find some of our questions unnecessarily duplicative, but I have not succeeded in changing the script. Don’t feel bad if you feel like you already answered! I will also not that some people are so brief in responses that 20 minutes would be sufficient; with others, we struggle with the allotted time. People vary a great deal. It’s good that you are aware because the strongest candidates are those who seem to be solidly in the middle in terms of what they have to say. Of course, it is tough as the interviewee because you have no idea if there are 7 questions or 20.

      1. One idea that works in my office. At the beginning of the interview, we will explain the process – I.e., we have five standard questions for you, and we may have follow up questions based on your answers (if permitted at your office), then there will be time for you to ask questions. It kind of sets the stage for the interview

    2. the only thing I would suggest is making sure you include natural pauses in your answers, so that if the interviewer wants to stop you somewhere or ask a follow-up question, there’s a chance to do it. Otherwise you sound fine.

    3. I would use the “anything else to add” to my advantage. Let’s say in response to Q1 about your qualifications, you mentioned a bunch of things including managing competing priorities, which is the topic of Q3. Come prepared with another example or story you can use to elaborate on that specific skillset, and use it to answer Q3.

Comments are closed.