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Updated: Jul 11, 2021 404 Comments · by

Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Desya Surplice Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | ·

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Good morning to this yellow dress, and only this yellow dress. Mondays can be rough, but this sunny surplice sheath dress from Boss would make them a little more bearable. I love the surplice neckline, which gives it a super flattering faux-wrap look, and the marigold hue, which is flattering on a wide range of skin tones.

I would probably wear this with a tortoiseshell or dark brown shoe, and a navy blazer if I felt like I needed to cover my arms.

The dress is $445 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 0–18.

A few dresses at more affordable price points in varying shades of yellow are from Donna Morgan (sizes 0–18; on sale for $29.98–$39.97), Lauren Ralph Lauren (sizes 6–16; $145), and M.M.LaFleur (XS–XL; on sale for $137).

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Sales of note for 9.10.24

Sales of note for 9.10.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Sunny

    I’m considering buying some new boots. These ones came recommended from an online acquaintance and I really like the designs; what do you think of these ones for an office that’s business casual, specific subtype “men wear solid-color polo shirts and tan slacks”? I also prefer to wear solid-color polo shirts and tan slacks, so I’m interested in ways to spice that up a bit without going too wild.

    https://rabbiedavis.com/collections/boots/products/mature-marbling-boots

    (I’m also seriously considering the Felicitous Florals print, but those wouldn’t be for work – with jeans and a nice V-neck, I think they’d be good for going out.)

    https://rabbiedavis.com/collections/boots/products/felicitous-florals-boots

    • Anonymous

      These to me are work boots and not at all appropriate office attire. If you like them for going out rock it, but these are not a work shoe.

    • Anonymous

      If guys are wearing tan pants (not jeans), you need something dressier. I actually was surprised they didn’t have a steel toe because they looked very much like construction boots. Hard pass.

          • Rabbie Davis

            Hi, owner of the shop here. I actually just woke up recently because I don’t work in an office. I’m a small time artist just trying to make cool boots with the resources I currently have access to, mostly for casual fashion, so to see I was getting all my traffic from here I was like ???? and it was wild to see a bunch of strangers ripping into my boots for not being workwear when I’m not really a workwear store. Kind of like the Twilight Zone.

          • Rabbie Davis

            I really appreciate that, thank you! I wasn’t sure if everyone here just hated them because everyone was dunking on this. Definitely made for an interesting day!

    • Anon

      I wear boots with jeans at work quite a bit, and for the office, I prefer a slimmer profile than these (the ones I wear for actual work – as protective footwear are more like these in shape – plain black steel toe Doc Martens). My office boots are Thursday Vanguards and they’ve held up well for the last couple of years.
      I don’t mean to sound snobbish, but I’m not it’s possible to have any sort of quality at this price point. You’d be better off stalking Poshmark for a pair of lightly used Red Wing, Thursday or Grant Stone boots.

    • No Face

      I think these are appropriate for a jeans-and-sweatshirt workplace, not a polo shirt and slacks workplace. I think you should aim for interesting loafers or oxfords if you want interesting but comfortable shoes to wear with slacks.

    • AnonMom

      If your office is adjacent to, say, the uniformed service industry, I can see boots like these being an acceptable way to express yourself. If your office is more white collar professional, then I would stay away from these for all but the most casual of Fridays.

    • anon

      These are fine if you work in a place that requires safety shoes, like the floor of a manufacturing plant. Because there are no cute safety shoes anyway. However, for normal business casual, I think these would not look very professional.

      • AnonATL

        In a previous job, I worked at a manufacturing site. I found it impossible not to look frumpy. I was pretty limited to things like dockers, safety shoes, and a shirt that I didn’t mind getting dirty.

      • Waffles

        Totally an aside, but there’s a brand Xena workwear that makes safety shoes which look really cute. I have never tried them myself as I’m not in a job now which requires safety shoes, but I have this s!te bookmarked for if/when I need them.

    • Anonymous

      I think that just like Dr Martens, you could style these boots to work for business casual, but it will require some effort to get the business part of casual in the mix. You can gets lots of ideas if you search pinterest for Doc Martens styling tips, I’m sure.

      I’m having a hard time imagining them with tan trousers, though, maybe a darker khaki or dark brown, but the easiest way to style chunky boots more dressy is to wear black skinny jeans or a short skirt with dark and thick tights. A dark tan desert boot from Clarks might work well with tan slacks, though.

      I think it’s doable, but requires some effort. Unless you have reason to wear chunky boots for protection I can’t imagine wanting to wear heavy footwear in a business casual setting, especially not plastic ones, but that’s just me. (I would go for leather, but I realize that’s not for everyone.) If you want more cheerful footwear, what about chucks? If you don’t think Converse will work out at your office, I think these boots will be difficult as well, and vice versa.

    • Anon

      What are the men wearing on their feet? Loafers, or dressy sneakers? You need to do the same. Those boots are not work appropriate.

    • Senior Attorney

      I just got back from Iceland and wore my hiking boots every day. I sure wish I’d seen these (especially the first ones) before I left because they would have been perfect!!

      For tan slacks and a polo in the office, maybe notsomuch.

  2. Anonymous

    Paging tech/privacy focused people :) Do you have any advice on smart home devices? I’ve always been rather wary of them, and feel pretty strongly about not having an Alexa/Echo. But, I’m now that I’m responsible for my own house, and have experienced the conscience of my smart thermostat and accompanying app, I’m wondering if people have advice on which ones are worth the trade off and which are very invasive? (For instance, I have a smart phone a s understand that it tracks me, but did pick an iPhone over alternatives because their corporate culture does seem more focused on privacy than Android.)

    • Ribena

      I was given an Alexa Dot device by my parents, and I specifically put it in my kitchen rather than my living room (which is where I work) or my bedroom, so that it can’t hear me having work conversations (which sometimes include market sensitive information) or hear what TV etc I’m watching.
      It has ‘fallen off’ my WiFi recently and I haven’t bothered to re-connect it… so that probably tells you how extensively I use it!

      In contrast I love my smart thermostat – it’s not one that knows when I’m in the apartment but rather a wifi connected one, so less smart but also less creepy.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      None of them are worth the tradeoff for me, but everyone’s comfort level with this is going to be different. I don’t have any sort of wifi enabled devices in my home outside of TV, computers, and smart phones (and our phones are locked down in terms of location tracking, blocking voice activated commands, etc. as much as possible).

    • Anon

      I think you need to identify what exactly you’re concerned with. If you’re concerned that these devices may snoop on traffic within your home network or have malware on them, you can place them on a segregated vlan in your home network so that they wouldn’t be able to talk to things like your phone or your laptop. Sometimes routers have a guest network feature you can enable that does the same thing.

      If you’re concerned that the devices will track your data and sell it, you can read their privacy policy to see how it’s handled. If you’re very opposed to that you would be best off not using them.

      • Anon

        +1. We’ve never had one and will never have one. We received one as a (well-meaning) gift and gave it away.

      • Anonymous

        +1. Doesn’t add enough to my life to justify the loss of privacy. I can set my own thermostat with almost no effort.

    • pugsnbourbon

      We had an Alexa for a while but like another poster, didn’t reconnect it after changing our sound bar.
      Last year I started getting tons of targeted adds for laundry machine cleaners and laundry deodorizers. I couldn’t figure out where they were coming from – until I remembered snuggling my dog and affectionately calling her “stinky” right in front of the Alexa.

      • Anonymous

        I work in digital advertising. More likely you’ve bought or visited a website from a pet product supplier or a home store at some point and your info was used as a match list. If you’ve purchased a home, you’re often targeted for appliances and the like as well.

        It’s easy to target by age, gender, car purchase, many job duties, remarket to those who have visited websites, etc., etc..

        • Anon

          I’ve received suggestions about things as specific as “19th century opera composer whose name I wouldn’t have known how to spell, but who was mentioned to me in conversation earlier that day by someone more educated than me.” I don’t see how that could be from demographics and web tracking (I neither know or care about music generally personally).

          Either way though, privacy seems like an illusion!

          • anonshmanon

            If the other person who mentioned this composer to you, looked it up on their phone/computer, and the two of you had your phones in the same space, that would do it. It’s pretty disheartening.

          • Anon

            +1 to anonshmanon. I don’t think people understand how extensively they’ve been profiled or how well they’re connected to the profiles of people they talk to.

            About two years after I had my first kid, I started getting a ton of ads for baby stuff again. Not because they’d snooped and heard me talk about trying again, but because most kids are spaced 2-3 years apart. And then after my second was born, I started getting a ton of ads for home improvement supplies and appliances. Because most people have two kids and need to change their living space around a bit, or maybe even move. It’s not listening in, it’s understanding my demographic as a suburban 30 something with two kids and predicting how I’ll behave.

          • Anon

            I asked if they had ever Googled the name, and they said they hadn’t even thought about the person since grad school and hadn’t been reading up on opera online at all. I happen to believe them. They said their phone does have voice command enabled. It’s the not the only instance I’ve experienced; it was just the most striking and obscure.

          • Kat in VA

            <– works in cybersecurity, fed-adjacent

            Not to be all doom & gloom, but privacy is absolutely an illusion and has been for some time.

    • Anon

      I have a smart home with Alexa devices in nearly every room that allows me to verbally access lighting, HVAC, television, and the security camera system. Which is all very convenient but my favorite part is listening to radio stations from all over, although automated lighting routines which mean I come home to a fully lit house on winter days when it gets dark early is also something I love. I do not work from home, but if I did the home office would be an Alexa-free zone. I’ve got a smart phone in my hand as I type this, so clearly I’m not too fussed about privacy.

      • Anon

        If you want to come home to a house already lit up, you can use timers on the lamps. We used to do that in the Dark Ages, for vacations and such. I’m amazed at how, well, helpless people are now, that they can’t even turn a dial on a thermostat any more.

        • Anon

          Goodness, who peed in your Cheerios? I’m not helpless, I just like flexible convenience. You do your thing, I’ll do mine. See how easy that is?

    • DateWithAlexa

      I used to have an Amazon echo dot, but then I went on a date with a kid who works at Amazon and basically did everything possible to describe what he does for a living without violating his NDA (I don’t remember if he explicitly even mentioned the NDA, but I’m an attorney so I picked up on what was happening). The best I could gather was that he basically transcribes people’s recorded convos so that Alexa is better at understanding human language. I don’t remember if they were convos that were not specifically directed at the Alexa, or if it was commands given to Alexa, but either way, knowing that there are humans whose job it is is to process what Alexa records sketched me out SO hard. I haven’t had it plugged in since.

      I have a Google mini I had purchased around the same time as the echo dot, and I also have left that unplugged, but lately I’ve been missing the functionality and am kind of tempted to plug it back in. Sure, they are probably doing the exact same thing as Amazon, but at least I have plausible deniability..

    • anon

      I have nothing that listens, other than my iPhones and those are locked down. I am of course aware that my cell phones are crazy tracking devices and that I am being tracked by social media, so I have given up that goat, but I don’t want listening devices in my home.

      I do have a smart thermostat although tbh, I suck at using all of the capabilities, so it was probably a waste of money. Oh well!

    • Bonnie Kate

      We just built a home and specifically did not use any smart devices/smart outlets/etc. where we had a choice. Somet things come automatically “Smart” – like our generator and garage door openers. Several of our family/friends couldn’t believe that we didn’t, but we’re just not comfortable with that level of AI-constant listening and recording in our home.

    • Anon

      My husband is a PhD in a tech/AI discipline.

      We have no smart home devices apart from laptops and smart phones (which are locked down as much as possible). No Google Home, Alexa, etc., etc.

    • Anon

      Here are my considerations.

      1) Cell phones, mine and those of others, are listening away, so it’s water under the bridge. I’ve repeatedly had experiences of discussing something quite obscure/specific that I never Googled or discussed online, and then getting an ad for it, despite all my privacy settings.

      2) I have pets at home, so it’s really important to me to have a fire alarm that notifies me if I’m not home. I know a few people who lost their pets (and everything else they own) to fires partly because no one was home to hear the alarms going off. It’s 2021, and this seems like something that doesn’t have to happen. But there’s no good solution that I’ve found that doesn’t involve a smart device.

      • Anon

        Your cell phone isn’t listening to you. It is tracking your location, and knows if you’ve been close to somebody who just bought new blinds, for example, so will show you ads for new blinds.

        • Anon

          I dunno about this. I mentioned above we have no “smart home” devices. A few weeks ago I mentioned to my husband that we needed to change the air filter in our HVAC system. My phone and laptop were in the room with me as we were having the conversation. I logged on to Facebook a few minutes later, and in my feed was an ad for air filters. I quickly turned off every microphone permission I could find on the computer and the phone as I felt like it was transparent something in the room had been listening to me.

        • Anon

          I guess it’s still water under the bridge to me, whether it literally listened in my conversation with a friend who was just diagnosed with a rare condition (and then started advertising weird remedies for the condition to me), or whether it just knows I was in physical proximity to someone who was also recently at a rare disease specialist’s office… if it knows, it knows. But it is WAY, WAY more specific and niche than things anyone might be shopping for like “blinds.”

          • Anon

            I’m still thinking through examples though, and there are still some instances where I have no explanation beyond a phone listening in. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that they don’t listen if they can listen.

      • Anon

        Same for pets. And if there is someone listening and transcribing, they’re going to get an awful lot of “who’s a good boy? You’re a good boy! Yes you are!” and “You’re so cute. Come over here so I can scratch your butt.” Hopefully they listen long enough to get the context on the second one.

      • Anon

        Agree with the water under the bridge. It bothers me that giving up privacy is part of living in society, but it is, and I participate in our modern society (have an iPhone, smart tv, security system, Gmail and other accounts, allow cookies and location services for many websites for convenience/directions). That said, I don’t personally have any smart home specific things other than a wifi thermostat (not smart, just wifi enabled) and our security system (which does have a camera). I don’t not have them bc of any privacy concerns, but more bc I am cheap and don’t think the price is worth the benefit for me personally. I don’t believe I have any true privacy inside or outside of my home, so I’ll take the convenience that matters most to me.

    • Anon

      I absolutely refuse to have my house connected to the internet. There’s no way any of them are privacy safe.

    • Anon

      I had only two infosec classes as part of my compsci MS. I will never own smart anything or IoT products.

  3. Kate

    My office is requiring everyone in the office Aug. 1. Tried on some 2020 pants over the weekend – they won’t even go past my thighs! Ran into a Gap yesterday and I have gone up two sizes since March 2020. I’m torn between trying to eat better and get back into my wardrobe before winter, getting by with a few flowy dresses and basics, or saying this is just what size I am now and doing a big wardrobe purge. Anyone in the same boat? I say this with no judgment – I’m fine the size I was, or this one, it’s more do I lose an entire wardrobe or do I seriously diet for the first time. In case it matters, I’m mid-30s.

    • Dame Judy

      I think it depends. Are you happy with your body and eating/exercising choices now? Did your eating change drastically when you started wfh? Or your activitiy level? Is it going to back to how it was previously? Do you really feel you need to lose weight? Or is it just the clothes in your closet that are driving this?

    • Ribena

      I would go somewhere in between. Buy a small wardrobe of things you actively like, and see what size your body settles as when you are fully in whatever your new routine looks like. I got a lot more incidental movement in when I worked at the office and the lack of that movement is responsible for more of my pandemic weight than the extra food (genuinely).

      • Anonymous

        +1
        Home workouts and walks are not even close to the activity level I get from actually going to the office. I’d want to get back in the routine and see how things work out naturally, but it’s important to have enough clothes that fit now.

      • anon

        That’s my experience, too. Yeah, yeah, food choices matter, but so did my daily activity, which plummeted even though I kept exercising.

    • Anonymous

      I think these are two extreme options. Why not go through your clothes and get rid of things that are just ok but keep things you really liked, buy some new clothes as needed that fit now, not limited to flowy dresses unless that’s your style, and if you don’t feel like your weight gain is healthy focus on making gradual sustainable adjustments instead of embarking on a dramatic serious diet.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1 this is the boat I’m in. I bought some pants that I actually really like and will probably re-buy next year when my weight settles.

      • Allie

        This. I’m buying a round of clothes in my current size (not budget clothes, not flow-y) and keeping my favorites two sizes down.

    • anon

      Personally I would just lose the weight rather than spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a new wardrobe.

      • Anonymous

        This is me (#frugal), but a year later, I’m 3 pounds heavier despite wanting to do this. Late 40s. I think I need to leave my kitchen/office and go back to an office/office.

      • anon

        The problem is that weight loss can take a really long time! She needs something to wear in the meantime, even if she does decide to lose weight.

    • Anon

      Similar situation postpartum. I tried on every piece of work clothing I own and sorted it into one of several piles:
      1. It doesn’t fit at all I don’t like it (never liked it that much, it’s outdated, it’s in okay condition, etc.). Donated.
      2. It is close to fitting and I love it. Keep.
      3. It fits. Keep.
      4. The hard category: it isn’t close to fitting but I really love the item, and the item is high quality. Sometimes, I bought the identical one a size up. Sometimes, I kept it because a tailor could do something with it.

      One of the things I found in my mid-30s is that weight gain and weight loss is not symmetrical: if I put on, say, 5 pounds to my thighs, and then I lose 5 pounds, it might be 3 pounds off my thighs and 2 pounds everywhere else. So any big change in weight means that certain stuff will never fit properly again.

      I’ll also distinguish between “doesn’t fit at all” and “comes close to fitting.” Pants that were tight with the zipper wide open – donated. No point in trying to get them to fit again. Skirts that are a bit tight in the thighs or stomach – I’m wearing on today that didn’t fit five months ago.

    • No Face

      You gained weight because of a highly unusual situation – a pandemic that kept you at home and sedentary far more than your normal life. (I’m in the same exact boat.) I am not purging anything. I just packed clothes that don’t fit away and bought more items that fit me now from thrift stores.

      I am not trying to predict what size I’ll be a year from now because I can’t predict what the next year will look like.

    • Anon

      In my experience, as you get older weight only comes on, it never comes off. Yes, it was a very unique situation that caused us to suddenly gain weight (I’m in the same boat) and hopefully we won’t gain more, but I really doubt it will come off easily, especially once you’ve hit your mid-30s and the very real slowdown in metabolism that comes with it. I bought a lot of stuff in my new size and donated the old stuff.

      • Anonymous

        I mean, sadly, this. Unless there was a massive difference in what you did pre-pandemic (like you were a cross-fitter who counted calories) and you did nothing during the pandemic, that creep isn’t necessarily going anywhere easily.

      • Anon

        This is just not true. People older than 40 or 50 can still lose weight. Happens all the time. It’s just not as effortless as it it when you’re younger.

        • Anon

          Of course they can, but they usually don’t, that’s my point. It’s far more common for weight to come on and stay on than for someone to lose a significant amount of weight, especially post-35.

    • Anon

      I think you should try to lose the weight and buy some clothes to tide you over in the mean time.

    • Anonymous

      I am in a similar boat, having gained a ton of extra weight. I’m kind of just biting the bullet and buying a bunch of new wardrobe stuff. Feeling like I’ve gained a ton of weight is horrible for my confidence and self esteem, and sausaging myself into stuff that doesn’t fit anymore only makes it worse. I do *not* plan on purging my previous wardrobe, as I do plan on eating better and getting back to where I was. I’m also not going to do a *full* wardrobe repurchase. But I am going to buy enough clothing that I reliably have stuff I fit into and feel cute in (or as close to cute as I can at this weight).

    • Anonymous

      I’d buy some clothes that can fit comfortably at a number of sizes. You’ve learned that your body can change sizes pretty rapidly without you really noticing the weight creep. Lean into that, because it’ll probably happen again. There are plenty of smart looking ponte knits that will work well for a couple of sizes.

    • Anonymous

      35 and I could have written this post. I’m still at a healthy weight for my height, although on the upper end of it, and noticing more joint issues when I run than when I was lighter. I’m torn between “whatever, I feel good and dieting is a ton of work and screw diet culture, I just want to enjoy my life,” and trying to get back to where I was. Bleh.

    • Anon

      FYI: I am a size 16 so I understand weight-related struggles very well.

      I feel like 2020 was so weird and we all did such out-of-the-norm things to cope that I’m not sure I would jump to deciding this is the size you are and ditching the old clothes (unless it’s the clothes you were never that enthusiastic about). Are you sure you will have to “seriously diet” to get down to your previous size, or would it just be a matter of being more conscious about choices and going back to how your habits were pre-pandemic? I would maybe try the latter first and if that doesn’t work, and after a couple of months it looks like – yep, the only way to get back into the old clothes is through serious old-school disordered-type dieting, than embrace the new size and go forward. Alternatively, if maintaining your old size was a real struggle and you’re just done with it, that’s okay too. I would buy some outfits to get you through transitioning back to the office, and then see if being back in the office and back on a semi-normal routine helps with structure and habits and that results in some change. There is nothing wrong with being whatever size you are – remember, size 16 here representing – but you also don’t have to overhaul your wardrobe (unless you just want to!) over what may be a temporary condition. I know I would think about the expense and also losing certain pieces I really loved.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Was in a very similar situation this last year – I “blame” squats and lunges and a 8-week barre workout that I did that now I actually have thighs and a butt. I did think about a serious diet, but figured since I was good with the size I was and I don’t want to go backwards in muscle, I needed to just buy new pants and jeans. I like to get as much as I can second-hand, so I got rid of what didn’t fit and have slowly built back up my wardrobe with things that fit. It’s a little more difficult because I don’t really know what size I am in all the brands anymore, but since thrift store dressing rooms have opened back up again it’s a lot faster process.

    • Alanna of Trebond

      I gained weight last year due to pregnancy and staying home/isolation. I have finally lost all of it using Noom, which I have really liked and is the first time I have ever lost weight by trying to lose weight. I don’t know if it will stay off but I am a fan currently. I am in my early 30s.

  4. Anonymous

    We have a firm cocktail hour event tonight! I’m fine with this Covid wise, it’s outside and I’m vaccinated, but wow it feels weird. I’ve forgotten most of the people at my firm existed! (My practice group is tiny).

    • Marie

      I have the same thing next week. It is going to be so weird, but I am looking forward to it, since I haven’t seen people I used to pass in the halls and at least have casual conversations with for 1.5 years. Recognizing the amount of time it’s been is even more weird.

      • anon

        We don’t have any of these events, but I went into the office last week and there were several people in and it was so great to be able to shoot the ish with them and catch up. I have missed that!

    • anon

      With respect, this objectively not “fine” with the DELTA variant spreading like wildfire.

      • Anon

        If you’re vaccinated then it sounds like there’s nothing to worry about with the delta variant

  5. Hat

    Looking for a cute crushable straw hat for wearing on walks and while outdoor dining this summer – any recommendations? I’m seeing a lot of really wide brinks that are a bit much to carry around and toss on.

    • anne-on

      I recently got the packable Jcrew straw fedora. The brim isn’t too large and it doesn’t look super retro in the early aughts ‘girl wearing an ironic fedora’ kind of way. Would try to grab it on sale if you can but otherwise would highly recommend it.

      • Cat

        I also have and like this hat, but was warned it’s not really “crushable” in that it will spring back to shape if you scrunch it up. It’s more flexible than a stiff fedora for sure but don’t plan on shoving it in a backpack.

    • Anonymous

      I have the FURTALK Womens Beach Sun Straw Hat I bought last year from amazon. It’s inexpensive and completely crushable/packable. I’d recommend it (and will buy it again if I ever need to).

    • JustmeintheSouth

      Love my Wallaroo hats, Can crush in a suitcase when traveling and they shape up after a few minutes.

    • No Face

      I want to piggyback on this request, but I have a giant head. Any of these work for the large headed among us?

    • Anon

      I have a foldable sunhat from Coolibar that is easy to throw into a purse until needed. Caveat that it is not cute, but it does the job. I also have some UPF50 hats from Am*zon, specifically from the brand “Pineapple & Star”, which are actually cute and stylish but not really packable.

    • Anon

      San Diego Hat Company has what you’re looking for. Many styles. From frump to fashiony, all reasonably priced.

  7. Anonymous

    Love this dress. The color would be atrocious on me. Here’s a fun question: I’m thinking I may be leaving a job and starting a new one in late August, with a couple weeks in between. If the stars align, maybe I can take a short trip. I am married with kids but my husband is not going to be in a position to take a vacation, mostly because we are taking a family vacation to the beach already in August. Maybe I would go by myself, or maybe I would take one or two elementary aged kids (but they aren’t vaxxed yet)… or maybe I would try to convince a friend to join me with short notice. I’m thinking somewhere in Europe, coming from the East Coast. This is all obviously not even half baked, but it’s fun to think about. What would you do and where would you go?

    • Veronica Mars

      Camino de Santiago in Spain (assuming that’s in line with their regulations regarding C19 travel)– it’s very safe for a solo female traveler, you’re walking through beautiful Spanish countryside, and it’s a great experience.

      • anonshmanon

        A similar but less busy pilgrimage hiking route also exists in Italy, the Via Francigena (sp?) leading to Rome.

    • Anonymous

      I would leave the kids home if your husband is cool with it and do 5 nights in Paris.

    • Anon

      Europe isn’t my favorite kid-free destination because I feel like it’s pretty great for family travel and when I get a break from my kids I want to do something super relaxing. I like adults only resorts in the Caribbean or destination spas when I can get away solo or with girlfriends. But if you’re set on Europe and not taking the kids, maybe some hiking that would be too intense for them? DH and I are tentatively planning to go the Swiss Alps for a milestone anniversary next year.

    • No Face

      I recently took a short trip with a friend, no spouses or kids allowed. It was wonderful. I had so much fun! It was great to just be myself for days, taking care of my own needs and desires instead of kids/husband/employer. Leave kids with the husband and go somewhere by yourself or with a friend.

      • Senior Attorney

        I just got back from Iceland and it blew. my. mind. SO GREAT!! HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!!

      • Another anon

        Yes, both super great for ease of travel from east coast. I went on a great multi-day hiking trip with a company in Iceland, if that is something you’d want to do.
        I LOVED Rome solo (so much to do! so busy at night that I always felt safe alone!)
        Tons of ideas but the answers depends on what you like to do (and where you can get in, as mentioned below)

        • Monte

          Not, OP, but what company did you use in Iceland? And what was the age range of the folks on the trip? I would love to do a multiday hiking trip but don’t have any friends who would either enjoy or have the free time to go in the near future.

          • Another anon

            Icelandic Mountain Guides! Very very highly recommended. Laugavegur trek staying in huts, group of ~14, age range probably 28-65, and the group dynamics worked great.

      • Cb

        Higher vax rates but fairly rampant Covid, likely to increase over the next 3-4 weeks given the absolute scenes last night. I might do the UK but somewhere a bit more chill?

      • anon

        don’t do the UK now, delta is rampant there and a friend just got stuck – not able to come back to the USA because her kid tested positive to it (you need a clean PCR test to come back home)

    • NYCer

      Barcelona or south of France with a friend. Not sure where on the east coast you are coming from, but there are direct flights to both from NYC.

    • anon a mouse

      I’d go solo to Porto. It’s a great place where you could lose yourself wandering, but no so big you’d need to worry.

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      Wherever lets vaccinated people in. The restrictions are still quite strict in many countries. Figure out your options that way and then investigate which is most exciting to you.

    • Anon

      You are getting some great suggestions but I recommend checking the weather. Rome and the south of Spain are both wonderful but I would not visit either in August because of heat and crowds. I would probably head for the UK. Specifically I would start in London and make my way up to Edinburgh if I was on my own (or London and then train to Paris for a few days because while August may not be ideal for Paris, it is still Paris). But that is partly because my family is up for one or two museum days per trip and I want to visit all the museums and all of the churches so it would be a chance for me to really focus on what I like to do.

      • Anon

        +1 UK, Scandinavia and mountains are the only places in Europe I’ll go in August. I hate being hot though.

    • Anonymous

      Come to Canada, but by yourself. Unvaxxed kids still need to quarantine.
      By end of August, most provinces should have a +60% fully vaccinated population.
      So many beautiful places to visit, the US $ goes pretty far and there will be lots of great deals as tourism has been shut down for 18 months.

  8. Anonymous

    I am on the hunt for high-quality, classic black flats for work that I can spend all day in and walk around in a reasonable amount and that ideally have some kind of support and don’t look orthopedic. Is there such a thing? I am willing to pay what I need to for this, but I don’t know if it actually exists. Does anyone have classic, holy grail flats that I should try out?

    • Anonymous

      I’m interested in the responses. All I can contribute is that Rothys are *not* the answer as there is basically no support. Also they are not comfy if you have wide feet.

      • Anon

        The round toe ones are very comfy on my wide feet, the points are decidedly not so. Although I agree with you about the lack of support.

    • Anon

      Rockport Total Motion Adelyn. I have three pairs and wear them for my professional job that involves lots of walking.

      • family

        +1

        I have 5 pairs of these.

        Black. Black croc embossed. Grey suede. Wine suede. Snakeskin.

      • Anon

        These really are the holy grail flat. I have three pairs; they hold up to lots of use, are comfortable and supportive, but also look great. Highly recommend.

    • Trixie

      Are you open to loafers instead of flats? Loafers have more structure, and I find them way more comfortable than flats. Try Earth, Donald Pliner, Vionic, Clarks, or other comfort brands. They look great with pants, and can look great with some dresses and skirts.

      • Anon

        +1 to Earth. They are all I have worn for the last several months and my feet have never been better.

      • Anonymous

        I keep seeing ads for this brand on Instagram. Beautiful shoes, and I would pay for them if I knew they were likely to fit this bill. Has anyone bought these?

        • anne-on

          Also VERY curious. I have ‘good enough’ flats from Boden when I need to wear real shoes for conference days (not Rothys) but they are absolutely not ‘comfort’ shoes so much as they are nice enough shoes that I can wear for 10-12 hour days without screaming in pain.
          Mgemi’s loafers also would fit an insole and are fairly comfortable.

        • NYC

          I’ve bought way too many of her shoes. They’re gorgeous and very good quality. I particularly like the Natalie since the toe shape goes well with pants and dresses. I find them supremely comfortable. Good for wide feet.

        • Anon

          I have quite a few pairs. The highest heels are still uncomfortable but better than similar heights for comfort, the lower height sandals (55mm ish?) are insanely comfortable and worth it. The flats are the most uncomfortable things I’ve ever worn in my life. Make you want to saw your feet off at the ankle uncomfortable.

        • Waffles

          I bought a pair of Sarah Flint loafers on advice of a poster here. They were a limited edition loafer for lunar new year, so likely not still on the site. The quality of the shoes is amazing. Even on the inside, the quality of the leather feels so good.
          I can’t wear them barefoot without blisters, and I’m trying to keep them clean anyways. The smallest no-show socks don’t stay on, and better no-show socks are too big and they show. So I’m not wearing the loafers as much as I expected I would, but they are gorgeous in my closet.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Dr. Scholls oxfords and loafers have good support. Most of their newer flats are maybe too sporty for work, but there are past-season classic flats on Zappos and 6pm.

      • BeenThatGuy

        +1 to Vionic flats. I have several pairs for my problem feet and they are always comfortable with lots of walking.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Following with interest! Last night I realized I needed to figure out the shoe situation for my fall conferences because I am done destroying my feet, and on a whim I ordered the following loafers from Sperrys. My industry skews very casual (really I could wear sneakers if I wanted to) so they’re dressy enough for me. Plus I have a very soft spot for Sperrys. Here’s what coming to me:
      Sperry Women’s Saybrook Slip On Tumbled Leather Loafer in Black
      Sperry Seaport Penny Loafer in Tan

    • Another anon

      Classic flats and supportive seem mutually exclusive to me, but I find most Born flats, especially the Julianne, to be pretty comfy for a day of moderate (several miles) walking. All my flats get beat up relatively quickly (see: several miles of walking) so I can’t say that these are super high quality, but they can be replaced pretty often.

  9. Anon

    I commented earlier, but didn’t see that you’re trying for something a bit flashier than what I generally wear. If I was looking to liven things up a bit, I’d check out Solovair ( https://us.nps-solovair.com ). They have some nice colors and are great quality. It’s the company that made Doc Martens before they went mass market.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for this rec! Not the OP boot commenter, but I used to love Doc Martens and was very sad to see that they had gone in a more fast fashion direction.

  10. Mexico recs

    Thinking of doing an all-inclusive in Cancun or Riviera Maya for late September. Anyone have recommendations? We’d like some variety, nice pool area, each beach access (though I hear the seaweed is a problem currently), and all-inclusive rather than up-charges for all the dinner restaurants. Is a budget of $400 or so a night reasonable, or will those resorts be bottom of the barrel? I’ve noticed Karisma has a bunch of options, does anyone have experience (good or bad) with that hotel chain? Couple, no children, but we don’t necessarily need an adults only resort. Thank you!!

    • Marie

      I mentioned last week that I had been to Excellence Punta Cana and loved it (as have others who I recommended go try that resort), and when I was there, people who had been to other Excellence resorts were raving that the Cancun location was the best one they had been to. I have not tried it myself, but if I were considering AIs in Mexico, I certainly would be looking into it based on that feedback and my own experience at their sister resort. They also have a Playa Mujeres location. https://www.excellenceresorts.com/destinations/

      • Anonymous

        I’ve never done an all inclusive before so I can’t comment on the OP’s request, but I’m excited to read this comment as I’ve done a *ton* of research about all-inclusives and Excellent Punta Cana or Excellence El Carmen was going to be my pick. I did also see that the other Excellence resorts (including Playa Mujeres and Cancun) got a ton of excellent reviews.

      • Anon

        The Excellence resorts are great. The Valentin Imperial Maya is not as nice as it used to be, specifically in the areas of food and service, and, frankly, guests, but still offers very good bang for the buck. It’s also a very large and beautiful resort.

    • BeenThatGuy

      I’ve stayed at the Melia Paradisus Playa del Carmen and loved it. You might be able to do it in your price range; depending on the type of room you select. We had a swim out room which was totally worth the extra money, if that’s your cup of tea. I’ve stayed at a Karisma resort in Punta Cana and enjoyed that hotel brand as well. But I’d put Melia a step above them.

      • Anonymous

        I stayed at Melia Caribe in Punta Cana 7 years ago and it was lovely. I was in the adults only section. There was always room on the beach and the food was great. I don’t remember the exact pricing because we booked through an agent. I think it was like $2500 for a 4 day weekend including flights.

        • Pompom

          Just a note: they have renovated the Melia Caribe resort in the past 2 years (just before covid!). It’s still wonderful, but quite different. I liked the AO Level section much more before the renovations, as it felt like a truly separate resort. Now, it’s Level and non-Level all together, and it feels like you get a little less if you opt for Level. Our Thanksgiving 2019 visit was probably our last for a while (it was our 3rd in as many years).

          We’re moving onto Excellence resorts, actually! Oyster Bay in Jamaica much later this year, but El Carmen and PC were runners up!

    • anonymous

      Check out the website oyster dot com. They have great reviews and real pictures of resorts and hotels.

      We stayed at the Paradisus Cancun several years ago. I don’t remember how much it cost, but it had a nice pool and beach area. We stayed in the adults only part of the resort.

    • Anon

      DH and I stayed at Live Aqua Cancun five years ago and loved it. It was our first all-inclusive and the food was way better than I expected (granted, my expectations were pretty low). I’ve also heard good things about Excellence, LeBlanc and Grand Velas (that last one allows kids, all the others are adults only). After going to Live Aqua, we went to Grand Residences Riviera Maya with our kid and did not like it at all. It was more expensive than Live Aqua and the food and service were a lot worse. The beach was also worse, but that obviously has more to do with location than the resort. The Cancun hotel zone is obviously very touristy, but I think it has really beautiful beaches. I think late September is still whale shark season, so definitely go swimming with them wherever you stay. One of the coolest things I’ve ever done.

  11. Anon

    Anonymously venting because I now that just typing it out will make me feel better. Husband is all excited about this grill he picked out. It’s a combination smoker + grill.

    It is SO UGLY. And like 90% of the time, we’re not gonna smoke anything. We’re not huge meat eaters, so like… I don’t know why he is so excited about this. The cost is fine, the size is… I think it’s awkwradly large but whatever, it fits, but it’s just… it’s ugly as can be.

    But he’s SO EXCITED about it. Picking my battles and just needed to complain about this ugly ugly grill. Why not get a pretty stainless one instead?

      • No Face

        Buy him a grill cover as a present, to protect his new fun thing from the elements! Only because you are kind, loving, and considerate of course.

        • Anon

          OH. The cover has been purchased. And I might be trying to convince him to put it in a corner where it’s hidden by a bush…

    • Anon

      What makes a grill ugly? They’re all pretty utilitarian and if it gets the job done…. a stainless steel shopping cart set on its side makes a great bbq. Enjoy the good food that comes off it!

      • pugsnbourbon

        The mental image of walking into a ‘rette backyard barbecue and seeing a shopping cart as the grill is … chef’s kiss. I’d be all-in.

        • Anon

          At least that would be… streamlined?

          It looks like a 50 gallon barrel sawed in half with a grate on it. And just… it’s large and ugly and he’s SO excited and wants me to be equally excited and I’m just like, ‘Dude. It’s big and ugly. I’m happy if you’re happy, but… do you not see how ugly this is?’

      • Anon

        I’m guessing it’s bulky and uses a large amount of lower cost materials inefficiently. Efficient, utilitarian design usually comes out looking great. (This doesn’t mean it’s low quality; it just means that there’s not much financial pressure to be efficient with the materials.)

        My husband has a DIY smoker set up in the backyard that I’m trying to ignore (it’s not a shopping cart, but it does involve some unsightly concrete pavers). At least I love smoked meat.

    • Anonymous

      I’m laughing while reading this because I remember my dad pulling out his smoker every five years or so, and he would smoke a bunch of meat and fish. My mom would complain. He would get it out of his system and another five or so years would go by. What is it about smoking meat? To this day, I can’t stand it. I feel like I’ve had enough smoked salmon from my childhood to last two lifetimes! Hopefully yours doesn’t get the itch that frequently.

      • Former Southerner

        As a Southerner, this makes no sense to me – but we smoke everything all the time. And then I have to remind myself that some people think grilled meat is BBQ

    • Marie

      Must be something in the water (or targeted advertising is getting really good) because my husband was literally JUST talking yesterday about buying a new grill with a smoker! I said the same thing-when are we ever really going to smoke anything? He was going on and on about smoking salmon like it’s something he’d be doing constantly, when he will realistically smoke something once a year if that. Hoping he gets distracted and this notion goes away on it’s own…

      • Anon

        I literally just lol’d because… this is the conversation I’ve had several dozen times. Down to my husband waxing poetic about how I like smoked salmon and now he can smoke salmon for me!

        I literally just want a small, simple grill I can put my zucchini and marinated chicken breasts on and have it cook those evenly. Why, just… why. Is it a dude thing? Has the internet decided that 40-ish year old dudes want to smoke meats?

      • Anonymous

        He could a camp fire pot (some also work inside) made for smoking small amounts, like a salmon dinner. Lots of Swedish and Finnish brands I think, for smoking your fish. Looks like a big stainless steel saucepan with lid, and you put wood chips under a wire rack in the pot and put it on your grill.

      • Nom

        There definitely is a trend for it: at my book club last week (first one in person since the BeforeTimes!), 5 of 9 people said their SO was talking about this. I’m sort of perplexed by it bc I can’t figure out where the messaging is coming from … is there a smoked meat promotional organization out there? It’s also strangely specifically gendered, none of us (all women) had caught the “smoked meat” bug, and all the SOs who are into it are all men.

        To be fair, my guy does actually smoke meat on a regular basis and has been doing so for 3-4 years, so it’s not a new thing for him. But it’s more of a hobby rather than a “regular meal prep” type activity (mostly he makes healthy-ish jerky that is nitrate/nitrite free). I think of it as somewhat analogous to baking fancy cakes for fun.

        As for the ugly part: I think generally smokers are utilitarian in design, since they need to be specific shapes in order to actually smoke things properly and stay the correct temperature. We have an electric smoker which is not aesthetically appealing in any way, since it’s basically shaped like a half-height filing cabinet on legs. It’s fine, most of the time it sits in a corner with the cover on. But it’s not being used every week, which is a bit different from a combo grill+smoker.

      • Anonymous

        You shouldn’t regularly smoke fish in a smoker that will also be used for meat. It’ll give the meat a fishy flavor. So really he needs TWO smokers!

        • Former Southerner

          I am sorry but this is just not true. I routinely smoke both meat and fish and my meat does not taste at all fishy. Foil is your friend, as it cleaning your grill. But (as noted above) I am from a part of the country where BBQ means smoked pork shoulder (and only smoked pork shoulder) and that is hard to find where I live now I am forced to make my own. Fortunately my family is happy to ship sauce to me because what they sell as BBQ sauce in the stores here is an abomination.

    • Anonymous

      Ooo is it the big green egg? I just got DH one of those for his birthday. I also got him (ahem me) a little table that it sits in instead of that ugly nest thing they show with it on the sales floor. There are lots of other holders that make it look more normal.

      Also I feel your vent so hard because this thing is expensive and he already has a freaking smoker! But he wants so few material things in life, I’ll tolerate it with a smile.

    • Anon

      No advice, but commiseration, and will add in, I currently have a dusty, gross old smoker sitting in my backyard that has not been used in over 2 years because it’s such a pain in the butt to use. Husband keeps pushing back on getting rid of it because “we might use it again!” Ugh.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Doesn’t help the OP, but for those who say there’s no cute grills – here you go.
      https://stylebyemilyhenderson.com/blog/how-to-build-an-outdoor-kitchen-the-3-essentials-the-ehd-team-all-agreed-on-bonus-items-if-you-want-to-up-your-outdoor-cooking-game

      To the OP, I totally feel you! The smoker would be annoying to me too! It reminds me of the PS5, which my husband is relentlessly trying to buy – it’s SO UGLY. Back in December when I saw it the first time I was incredulous that Playstation designed something so big and ugly. And it’s going to go in our pretty entertainment console. Insert horrified face. As soon as he finally successfully buys it, I’m ordering a black skin so last least the entire thing will be black and less noticeable.

    • Anon

      My 18 year old son has been into smoking lately. He’s been tinkering with doing it on our weber gas grill because our charcoal grill, that is supposed to be a combo smoker/grill, is too small for the quantities he wants to make. Maybe he needs your husband’s giant, ugly grill. Maybe he can do that when he has his own place?

      I mean, the ribs are good. I’m really not a ribs person but I admit they taste better than other ribs I’ve had. On the other hand, were they worth the price of half a propane tank and the packet of mesquite wood chips?

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Oh man, you have my sympathies! My husband has been wanting to build a pizza oven and found one that was supposed to be easy and looks absolutely hideous. I told him I’m 100% pro more pizza in our lives, but we need to agree on the design.

      Can you landscape around it to disguise it a bit? We can’t fit our trash cans in the garage, so we put them on a pad of pavers, built a 3 sided trellis and grew vining plants around it. It works pretty well! Obviously you won’t be able to put things right up against it, but even a few feet out will go a long way to hiding it.

  12. Anon for this

    I feel a bit like I’m jinxing it by even saying anything, but I’m currently interviewing with 2 different companies. I’m 90% sure that company A is ready to make me an offer soon. Company B just reached out about 10 days ago and I’d be having my first stakeholder interviews next week (made it through 2 levels of HR screening already). Company B let me know they are looking to move quickly, and I’m already in a small candidate pool. I have some concerns about company A (my last interviewer disclosed some issues with budgets and stakeholder misalignment) so I plan to ask for another conversation to discuss before I consider an offer.
    All things being equal I slightly prefer company B but I obviously don’t know that I’ll get an offer. What are your best scripts/tips for slowing down the process with company A without putting them off? And should I let company B know I’m very interested but that I’m in the latter stages of speaking with another firm? Or is that being too cocky? Frankly I haven’t seen a job market this hot in over a decade so I’m a little taken aback this is even a situation.

    • Anon

      Could be bridge burning, so with that to consider, I’d just keep going with both companies. You can’t control their timing. If A makes an offer, take it and you still have to give notice, which gives you time to continue with B. If B pans out, you decline A or quit A. It’s not awesome to do that, and if your industry is legitimately small/niche, could be an issue, but in a larger market I’d do it. No one else is going to watch your career for you.

    • Anon

      That’s so tricky! I would say definitely tell B that they’re you’re first choice but you’re far down the path with A – for transparency. It may not make a difference but if they really like you it may speed things up. Also. I do not recommend this in general, but if it’s going to be close enough in timing you could reneg on the Company A offer. People do it.

    • Anonymous

      Been there. I didn’t do anything until I had an offer from Company A. Then I reached out to Company B and let them know that I had another offer on the table but that Company B was my first choice, with lots of flattery about how awesome I thought they were and how excited I was at the possibility of joining them. A bit of risk, but I do think it got them to speed things up a bit.

  13. Cora

    I live in a city apartment and don’t really have room for (actual) gardening. I started growing some mint on my windowsill and its going great, and is also really convenient to have around. I get direct sunlight (east facing), and it would have to fit in a pot on a windowsill – any suggestions for what else I could grow?

    • Greenishfingers

      Grow what you like to eat! Thyme or chives or parsley would go well on windowsill (more so than mint which can be a bit invasive). Or a mini chilli plant if you want decorative as well as functional. I started off with ‘a few’ pots and now have a too-large main garden, greenhouse and kitchen garden so it is addictive….

      • emeralds

        Thyme, sage, oregano, and basil are my go-tos. (I’ve never had good luck with potted rosemary.) But I agree with Greenishfingers, grow what you like to eat! I do a lot of Mediterranean-style cooking, so those herbs make sense for me. But someone who cooks more e.g. Asian food would get more mileage out of chili, lemongrass, or coriander.

    • anne-on

      I’ve been putting in a ton of lavender plants lately. Bees/butterflies love it, it requires almost no effort from me, and it thrives in the crazy sunny spots in our front yard. You can do fun infusions with lavender in baking/cocktails, but I’ve been collecting and drying it to put in small bags in my dresser and it smells so pretty!

    • Anon

      Basil. I’ve had good luck just buying a particularly nice looking potted basil from the grocery store produce section and putting it on the windowsill for months. For basil, you need to use it by pinching it back just above a set of leaves. This will cause it to send two new stems out from that location. If you pinch it back when it’s small enough and thus close to the base, you can get stems upon stems upon stems and have yourself a nice little basil bush.

      • Senior Attorney

        Thank you for this! I’ve been growing basil for years and never had that explained as succinctly as you just did!! No more leggy basil for me! Woo hoo!

    • Anon

      Rosemary is fairly easy like mint, and so is thyme. If you think you have a knack do soft herbs like basil, parsley, or cilantro. You’ll have to replace the latter three plants occasionally because they’re not forever plants, but you can keep them around longer by religiously pinching any flowerbuds that start.

  14. Unimportant Question

    I ordered three items from Pottery Barn. The most important piece (the bed) is ready but being held until the remaining two backordered items are available (trundle and trundle mattress). The delivery date rolls out two weeks every two weeks and has for a few months. I haven’t really cared since we needed more time to get the room itself painted/readied and I understand shipping/inventory backlogs for COVID of course. As of this weekend the room is done. Has anyone had success in getting them to deliver the bed now without incurring an additional charge, which I think might be $249? I think it’s sitting in a distribution center really close to me which I could frankly pick up myself. I’m sure as heck going to try but wondering if it’s fruitless and I should place my energy elsewhere…. thanks!

    • Veronica Mars

      I’d join the PB, Serena and Lilly and Ballard facebook group and check there.

    • anon a mouse

      If you can pick it up yourself, you might be able to have it delivered for free to a store and pick it up there. I did that with a PB chair when I didn’t want to pay the delivery charge to home (it was like $200 on a $600 chair, sigh).

  15. emeralds

    My husband likes to play video games with his non-local friends, usually 4-ish nights a week. They all have kids so usually the earliest they can log on is 8:30 or 9 at night, which is fine since that’s around the time I prefer to get in bed to read and decompress before falling asleep. However, we have a long-running issue with carryover noise, since in their ideal world they’d keep playing until 11:30-ish. DH wears headphones, but is talking himself since this is their social time, and will occasionally yell a bit if something unexpected happens. There are two potential places the Xbox can go. Both have issues. For context, we have a main-floor master.

    The Xbox started out in the basement, which we set up as a rec room. However, the only place the TV will fit requires the couch to be situated right under an air vent, that carries sound directly to the air vents in the master bedroom. After probably a year of periodic arguments about whether he was being too loud, he moved the Xbox upstairs this past winter. Upstairs is great from a noise perspective, but the previous owners of our house slapped drywall right over the attic framing without adding insulation. It is unbearably hot upstairs over the summer, even with a window unit, and for various reasons we are unlikely to address the insulation issue for the next few years.

    So the Xbox is in the basement again for the next three months at least, and I’m back to being the noise police. This is not fun for either of us. I’ve bought earplugs, which help some; I’m going to download a white noise app and maybe road-test melatonin, since if I can fall asleep, I usually sleep through noise. We had researched some soundproofing options for the ducts before he moved the Xbox upstairs, so I’m going to dig those back up and see what we can implement.

    Does anyone else have suggestions? We’ve been successful in navigating life as an early bird who wants to be asleep by 10, and a night owl who’d prefer to stay up until midnight or later, in literally every other part of our life except this.

    • Anonymous

      My suggestion is that your husband stop being a selfish child and figure out how to stop being loud. It’s truly not that hard, except he doesn’t care enough to do it.

      • emeralds

        I knew I’d get at least one comment like this, thanks for getting it out of the way early! I do agree that he could nix the periodic yells, but in his defense: normal to quiet conversational levels sound like they’re happening in the bedroom. He would literally have to whisper, which means his friends can’t hear him.

      • Anon

        Relax, he’s having fun and socializing. Sometimes, he gets excited and may talk louder. Not everybody’s husband is a jerk. Sometimes couples just have to find a way to make things work for both people.

        • Bonnie Kate

          +100. Sometimes husbands are jerks, but socializing in a completely different part of the house while wearing earphones so most of the noise is blocked is not a jerk move. This is a house issue, not a husband issue.

        • Anon

          I don’t think it’s reasonable for a spouse to be socializing in their own home without their partner 4 nights a week.

          • anonshmanon

            I don’t think it’s reasonable for me to judge how other couples choose to spend their free time.

          • emeralds

            This is such a weird take to me! One of the things I love about my relationship with my husband is that we’re both independent, value autonomy, and support each other’s right to have social lives + interests that don’t always overlap. Of course we do plenty of things together, but I want him to have space and time with the people he cares about, even if it’s not something I’d necessarily choose to do myself, like playing Halo and CoD. He affords me the same courtesy.

    • No Face

      I would go to the baby section of a big box store and get a white noise machine. I would place is near where the sound comes in, under the air vents. I have very basic white noise machines for my kids. I was putting my youngest to bed when there were literal fireworks going off outside her window and it was barely noticeable.

      • test run

        Yes, get two of them! One on his end and one on yours. We have used a dohm sound machine for years and now I basically have a pavlovian response to it and fall asleep as soon as we turn it on.

        • emeralds

          Sorry if this is a super basic question, but what’s the advantage of a white noise machine vs. using an app + Bluetooth speaker?

          • Anonymous

            I don’t know what the difference is technically, but I swear those machines are magic. Some sound engineer must have work with them to get the right sound frequencies that actually do bypass other sounds.

          • Anonymous

            I’m not the person you’re responding to, but a couple of things:
            – the machine doesn’t need internet connection and can run on batteries. This is the main reason I keep a machine around. It was like $10 and if the power goes out or something is wompy with my phone or Alexa or internet, it still works.
            – I also use my phone for other things like a sleep meditation app and sleep tracking. The speakers can only be used for one thing at a time

          • emeralds

            Thank you! I think I’m going to try app + Bluetooth first, but if it doesn’t work I will proceed to machines :)

        • anon a mouse

          This is the right answer. There’s a reason therapists and others use them outside their doors. They muffle all sorts of loud sounds. Get two.

      • Bonnie Kate

        100% yes to white noise. I prefer an air purifier myself, but a white noise machine would do it too. My husband is the night owl and likes to play games or watch TV late – once I turn on the air purifier, I don’t hear his noise.

        This is verging on paranoid, but I prefer an air purifier or box fan because I’m a tad suspicious of white noise apps and the potential to brainwash me while I’m sleeping. I know it’s ridiculous, but as I’m going to sleep, not something I want to think about.

    • BCNV

      Can he block the air vent with something temporarily just while he is playing, so that the noise doesn’t travel? Or, if it is easier, block the vent at your end, and he can remove whatever is blocking it when he comes to bed.

      • emeralds

        We did try blocking the vents in the bedroom, but it got super-stuffy. I don’t know why we didn’t think to try the vent downstairs, since it stays cool enough down there that I don’t think it would cause a similar issue.

    • anon

      Are you able to/willing to sleep in a guest room on his gaming nights?
      Alternately, Ikea has sound-absorbing panels. I haven’t tried them, but maybe you could place them strategically in the basement.

      • emeralds

        Unfortunately the guest room is on the same duct (like there are vents on opposite sides of the shared wall), so it doesn’t help.

        I will check out the Ikea panels!

      • Anonymous

        The post says he’s gaming 4 nights a week. I don’t think OP should consider sleeping somewhere else 4 nights a week!

    • Anon

      Can he close the vent or stick a piece of foam insulation over the opening while he’s playing?

    • BeenThatGuy

      Both my teenage son and boyfriend are huge gamers so I understand this dilemma. High end headphones are a must. Not only does it help them hear the game better but the mics are generally better so they don’t need to speak loudly for their voice to be heard. If he can’t keep his voice to a normal indoor level, then you have a whole other issue.

      • emeralds

        Ha, thank you for the understanding! He already has good headphones. The issue is really that normal to quiet conversations sound like they’re happening in the bedroom.

      • Anon

        I also have a teenage son who is a gamer and agree with this wholeheartedly. I actually love that he can collaboratively game with his friends (this was a lifesaver during the pandemic when it was the only socialization he got), but we have had conversations about the fact that his gaming can’t impact the rest of the household. My son and his friends have kind of a half-serious esports team and so it can get rowdy sometimes, but respect is fundamental and he knows he has to respect our aural space. My son got some kind of whiz-bang gaming headset by pulling weeds and raking leaves until he saved up half of it and we paid the other half (I don’t know what kind, sorry, my husband was the one who made the purchase). He doesn’t have to yell to be heard and if the noise gets “overenthusiastic” we just rap on his door and he quiets down. OP’s husband, who is probably twice my son’s age, can assuredly do the same. Or save the gaming for nights when OP is out of town.

    • Anonymous

      Sounds like the easiest solution would be for him to log on a little later – after you’re already asleep.

      • Bonnie Kate

        FWIW, I disagree that he should have to change his schedule unless you’ve tried white noise and soundproof panels first. Those two things could very easily solve this problem, and it’s not really fair, in my mind, for the husband to have to change his completely normal behavior without at least trying that other stuff first.

        • Anon

          It’s four nights a week! If he needs to do this that often he should make some sacrifices for OP’s comfort.

        • emeralds

          Yes, I hope that we can fix it with white noise + more soundproofing. There are only two guys in the 6-ish person group without kids, and the people with kids are the ones who usually set the schedule for obvious reasons. But I’m going to lay out all the ideas we came up with in the thread and see what he thinks!

    • Anonymous

      I know this sounds silly, but it seems like there is no totally obvious answer so it’s time to think outside the box. You have a house and a master bedroom. Do you have a guest room? Dining room? Can he move a TV into either one of those and play there? What about outside on a patio or something with a projector? The kitchen?

      I have lived in small homes and I do know that noise carries, but I’m having trouble picturing a home where there is literally nowhere else to be having a conversation that can’t be heard from the master bedroom with the door closed.

      Alternatively, does the noise wake you up, or just make it hard to sleep? Could he start after you are asleep?

      • emeralds

        We have a small house and the bedroom doors are kind of thin, crappy builder-grade, plus they have wide gaps at the bottom after we ripped up bedroom carpet. So in order to put the living room and kitchen into the mix, we’d need to replace the door. It’s fine as it is for a quiet movie, but conversations tend to be louder than that. We don’t have a dining room, just an eat-in kitchen. I’ll talk to him about the deck, though–that’s not a bad suggestion as long as it isn’t storming. Unfortunately the most noise-insulated part of the house is the upstairs room that he can’t use right now because of the heat.

        I’m going to talk to him about starting later.

    • Anonymous

      Move the TV so the couch is not directly under the vent. Get a smaller TV and an extension cord if needed. It’s not ok for him to yell into an air duct in the middle of the night.

      • emeralds

        The current TV can’t move. We could experiment with placement for the smaller second one that he was using upstairs, though.

      • emeralds

        Okay now that I’m thinking about the smaller TV that he had upstairs…I could talk to him about putting it in the unfinished side of the basement, since that’s on the other side of the house from the bedrooms.

        This could also mean he’d have to move the godawful eyesore of a recliner he’s had since college in there to sit on, since a couch won’t fit…I’d be heartbroken to not have to look at it anymore…

    • Anon

      Why can’t he close the air vent for the duration of playing each night and open it when leaving? It’s not hard, just flip the little switch.

    • Anon

      Very concrete suggestion – if he turns down the volume on his headset, he will in turn talk more softly.

      • emeralds

        We do have a smaller TV that was in the room he was using upstairs. I’m going to ask if he wants to play around with other locations in the basement using that one.

    • Anonymous

      Hmmm. Maybe this is why no one in my neighborhood keeps their cars in their garages and they have all been converted to man-caves.

      • Anon

        Our retired next door neighbors did this – they park in the driveway and the garage is a full-on man cave with guitars and amplifiers, big-screen TV, full stereo setup, tacky posters, etc. I was talking to the wife one day and she mentioned it (I wanted to ask but was too chicken) and then vaguely waved at the garage and said “cheaper than a divorce.” Which I imagine is true.

      • emeralds

        Alas, no garage! But I’d be mentioning that as an option if we had one :)

    • Saguaro

      I am surprised no one suggested ear plugs for you. Mack’s silicone ear plugs are the best! For me, they block out 90% of the noise when I am trying to sleep.

  16. Anonymous

    My office is having an “in person” day this week, which I am both excited about and extremely nervous about. I *just* started at this job, so I don’t know anyone. I also gained a LOT of weight during covid, so I am nervous entering the world under any conditions, and not thrilled about meeting my coworkers for the first time at a weight I’m not comfy at.

    Anyway, the Q: it’s a business casual office normally, but I don’t know what people are going to be wearing for this in-person day. I get the impression people might be a bit more casual than normal, closer to what they’d wear WFH (one person told me they’d be in jeans). Would it be weird to show in a wrap dress and heels or something else fully business casual? I am trying to find the right balance between looking cute and feeling confident and comfy in my skin, and not sticking out like a sore thumb while meeting new people.

    • anne-on

      Wear what makes you the most comfortable. I started a new job a few years ago at the highest weight I’d ever been. I of course had to spend the first few months meeting a LOT of people in multiple office locations. I wore a lot of dresses in neutral colors with interesting silk scarves to add some color and camouflage my stomach. I’m sure you could do the same with an open sweater, sweater blazer, or chanel style cropped blazer. I also made sure to make some extra effort with my hair and makeup to make sure I felt as pretty and put together as possible. I went on to lose the weight and not a single person commented on my weight at my highest or lowest. They DID mention how they thought I was always so nicely dressed – people aren’t as observant as you think, and will pick up more on how you present yourself, so fake it till you make it a bit!

      • Anonymous

        +1. People definitely aren’t as observant as you think. The only time I ever specifically thought about how a coworker was large was when she called my attention to it. “I’ve gained so much weight since I quit my gym membership!” If she hadn’t said that, I wouldn’t have given it a second’s thought.

      • Anonny

        I agree – wearing what makes you feel comfortable is the most important. You can always adjust the level of formality once you get a sense of things. Also, I’m sure everyone, even if they’ve been with the company a while, is feeling the same about what to wear – you’re all in the same boat, so I’m sure it will be ok.

    • Monte

      Not weird at all to show up in a wrap dress. Even if other folks are dressed a little casually, you are a new person meeting lots of new folks — I don’t think anyone would think it odd if you look a smidge more put together than the old timers.

    • Bonnie Kate

      My solution for this would be wrap dress+heels and adding a jean jacket over it. If the jean jacket feels too casual, you can easily use it. If you feel too formal, the jean jacket dresses it down.

      Basically I’m always looking for an excuse to wear my jean jacket. :) It’s a workhorse for me.

  17. Anonymous

    Has anyone rented a good AirBNB/VBRO on a river in eastern NC? Maybe something that came with a good SUP or canoe or non-motor boat?

    • SMC-San Diego

      Does it have to be a river or would a lake work? If lake, look at the rentals around Lake Santeetlah. There is one (host Mark) that is nice and he includes paddle boards but it is small so would only work for a couple. But there are several in that area.

  18. Anonymous

    Advice for communicating with someone who tells you what you want to hear not the truth that you need to hear? DH and I are in our late 30s and have been ostensibly TTC for “8” months. I use quotation marks because we haven’t actually gotten the timing right more than maybe once. I’ve been using ovulation tests the whole time, and I’ve been doing my best to balance keeping DH in the loop with not pressuring him. Well he’s barely touched me; it’s been frustrating and a pretty big blow to the ego to initiate and get rejected so much. I’ve tried to talk to him every way I know how – let’s educate “ourselves” aka him about how the timing works, do you want more info or less about the o-testing and timing, are you sure you’re ready to TTC. I’ve asked him calmly, I’ve asked through tears, I’ve begged him to tell me if something is wrong. He insisted nothing’s wrong, he wants a baby, even seemed distraught that it wasn’t happening. Ive been starting to look at fertility clinics, maybe IUI is what we need. Well he finally admitted over the weekend that he wasn’t ready before but he is now. You guys, I broke down sobbing. He apologized, said he didn’t know how to tell me, he didn’t realize how hard this has been on me, but now he’s ready so everything’s great! Right?

    I’ve moved past my initial sadness and on to fury. I feel betrayed. I feel lied to. Idk how to trust him moving forward. How do I know this time he’s telling the truth? I know I can’t come at him angrily, that will only reinforce his apparent belief that he can’t tell me things I don’t want to hear. Fortunately he’s out of town for work this week so I can be mad in peace. Has anyone else dealt with a partner who resists communicating about hard things? Doesn’t have to be TTC specific, this is a broader communication issue imho.

    • Anonymous

      Oh no. No. You need to go to therapy. Stop trying and sort your marriage out. He did lie to you. He did betray you.

      • Anon

        This. Before you have children with this man you need to be in a place where you honestly communicate with each other. You’re doing that and he isn’t. I would really pause before tying myself to a person like that for the rest of my life or his (even if you divorce, you’ll have to deal with him if you have kids).

    • Anonymous

      This is absolutely a broader issue and you guys need to be in couples therapy for it. He had an obligation to tell you how he felt instead of lying to you. You should also seek out a personal therapist to help you work through your own feelings of fury, rage, and betrayal. This is a huge deal!

      • Anonymous

        Absolutely this. And I hate to be this person, but it’s worth questioning whether this is person you want to be with forever and raise a child (or children with). He put you through a lot of stress, anxiety, sadness, and frustration all because he wasn’t willing to communicate his needs. This *is* the sort of thing that is fixable in couple’s therapy (although I think individual is always a good idea, and definitely now while you are dealing with this pain), but if he’s not amenable to couple’s therapy, you do need to ask yourself if this is the right person to spend the rest of your life and have kids with.

      • Senior Attorney

        This for sure. My first husband was like this and it never got any better.

    • Anon

      Not to scare you, but this mismatch was the beginning of the end for my first marriage. Shoe on the other foot, though – I was the one who didn’t want the baby. I realized that while I wanted kids in a nebulous, future way, what was going on was that deep down I didn’t want them with *him.*

    • Anon

      As someone who went through infertility treatment, please, please, please really think about whether or not having a baby with this person is the right idea. If you do have to go to fertility treatment he must (MUST) be a willing, cooperative, and conscientious participant in that. You can’t get to the day of your IUI or egg retrieval and have him balk at doing what he needs to do because he’s having second thoughts about being a parent. I think couples counseling is a must-do before you keep trying – with or without assistance.

      I will just share, my husband wasn’t ready for a long time and while he wasn’t ready he was clear about that and clear he did not want to try. He came to me one day and said, “I’m ready now, we can stop using birth control” and from that point was fully in the process with me, which became gigantically important when we couldn’t conceive on our own and had to start going to many doctor’s appointments to figure out and solve the problem. Those were dark days for me and it would have been darker had I been with a partner who wasn’t invested in seeing me get pregnant, or was secretly resenting me for wanting to try. It’s better to be a single parent by choice than drag someone kicking and screaming into co-parenting, because let me tell you – compared to what happens when the kid is born? The conception – even if it has to be accomplished by medical intervention – is the easy part.

      • OP

        Wishing we had more time definitely resonates. We’ve been married less than 6 months; I went off BC shortly before the wedding. I told him it was confusing and upsetting that he said one thing but did another. He said that he would’ve been ok if we had gotten pg during that time, he didn’t want to stop me from trying because he knew it was important to me, but he wasn’t ready to commit to actively trying. It’s all very confusing.

        • Anon

          OP, this all makes so much sense. A honeymoon baby is a really tough sell and I honestly do not recommend anyone go that route if they have other options.

          My husband and I met, dated, got engaged, got married, and I got pregnant and gave birth in less than three years. It was HARD on our marriage. We did not live together or garden before marriage; I pushed very hard to have a few months together as a married couple before TTC. Those few months were great but not nearly enough – we’ve often reflected that our friends who waited even a year to get pregnant have such different experiences than we do. Given my age, we made the best choices we could.

          I completely understand why your husband didn’t want to have a kid so soon. Unfortunately, he chose an incredibly poor method of achieving those ends: stonewalling you. There is very little that is confusing about this; he wasn’t ready so soon after the wedding – scratch that, before you got married – and clammed up.

    • Anonymous

      Therapy and DO NOT have children with him. Something is up on his end, and he’s not telling you the whole thing now either.

      I’m not proud of this but I was like this when I was having an affair and very unhappy in my marriage. Spouse wanted a kid and I lied and stayed on BC. I ended it and decided to recommit to the marriage, had a kid, and guess what the marriage still sucked. Ended up divorced with an amazing child and much happier in the long run, but I am not proud of how I went about that whole 3 year period.

    • Anon

      Starting at no place in particular: this isn’t an excuse, but a man who wants a kid with his late 30s wife will move heaven and earth to garden when she’s fertile. If he is not doing that, he’s communicating to you that he doesn’t want kids (now, ever, with you – pick any of those options).

      It is REALLY hard when someone’s actions and words do not align. Communicate that to your husband. “You said one thing and did another, and I was slowly going crazy because I was completely helpless and KNEW something was off and you just lied to me.” Communicate that the issue is the lying, and that you can never move forward until you both know what the truth is.

      How long have you been married? If it’s a very short amount of time, have some grace; it can be really hard to adjust to marriage and the idea of bringing a baby into it is tough. (I moved heaven and earth to get to the place where we could have kids, and nevertheless tongue-lashed everyone who tried to pressure me into a honeymoon baby. We wished we could have had more time before TTC.) If it’s a long time, he’s just resistant to having kids and is trying to run out the clock.

    • Anon

      I agree with what everyone has said but I will also say that my husband did not get how hard it was when we were trying to conceive. He just didn’t put as much thought into it and thought it would happen when the time was right etc. He did not understand the crushing blow it was for me every month that it didn’t happen. I would encourage you, if after working through your feelings, that if you do want to move forward, to seek out a fertility doctor. It doesn’t mean you have to try aggressive approaches – there are things they can do to help with the timing (like a trigger shot plus clomid medication). Good luck!

    • No Face

      Absolutely don’t have children with this guy right now and deal with this head on. He misled you for ages while watching you go through all that work, watching you beg him to be honest! Communication and caring for the other person only become more important as you have children, not less important.

    • anon

      I had a partner who struggled to tell me things that I didn’t want to hear or that he thought would disappoint me. This led to a really big lie and lots of little lies. We stuck together through this, got married anyways, tried to improve communication and willingness to share bad news. It didn’t change much, and eventually for many reasons we got divorced. Having now been with a new partner for 5+ years who doesn’t have this problem, it makes me crazy to think how long I put up with this nonsense and the constant worry that my partner wouldn’t just say what he meant or share with me life’s ups and downs.

      If this is the only thing he’s struggled to communicate about, maybe cut a bit of slack, delve into why this is such a tough issue for him, etc. If he is like this about anything else I’d be scared…

  19. Anonymous

    I recently came across something on social media that recommended changing the language we use to talk about climate change – instead, we should start saying “climate emergency” or “climate crisis.” As someone who lives in the west where we’re just getting constantly pummeled by wildfires, this really resonated with me and I thought I’d pass it on. Language matters and can make a big difference in advocacy. I’d also love to hear any tips for reducing your own carbon footprint. The big one for me right now is not resuming all the air travel I used to do – and also fighting the fatalistic tendency to say “my individual actions don’t matter when corporations do ___.” It all matters.

    • Anonymous

      Does it matter? We’ve already learned that the public is not willing to compromise on their lifestyle in any meaningful way so the only choice is to legislate the public into behaving.

      • Anon

        Though it probably won’t matter what the public does if the military and industry don’t behave themselves too!

    • anonshmanon

      Air travel is big. Also, donating my money for carbon mitigation projects. For the smaller things, I find satisfaction when I can couple lowering my footprint with improving my quality of life. Batching errands and only buying things I need saves so much time and money. Putting more manual labor into my garden is good for my physical and mental health, as well as for the plants and pollinators. Shaving off my consumption of animal products one awesome recipe at a time helps with my cholesterol as well as the climate.

      • Anonymous

        OP here and I love this approach too. To give another example, biking to the store instead of driving gives me fresh air and a little exercise while reducing carbon emissions from my vehicle, reducing my traffic time and stress, and reducing congestion (and accident risk). I love those win-win-win situations.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Such a good point! I am on the opposite end of the political spectrum as Frank Lunz, but am always fascinated by his work on political language shaping perception, which in turn shapes policy. Frank Lunz actually helped the change to “climate change” – advising the Bush administration that it was less scary. He’s had a change of heart since then and a few years ago was splashing around advocating climate action. We need more conservatives to change their attitude on it, so I continue to be fascinated.

      https://grist.org/article/the-gops-most-famous-messaging-strategist-calls-for-climate-action/

    • anon

      I mean I don’t disagree, but it’s a losing battle on the actual climate crisis side. I do try my best and I make changes in my own life, but like someone already said, the big contributors are going to change anything unless it truly hurts them monetarily and there’s a zero percent chance of that happening when lobbyists have tons of money to throw around.

      • Curious

        Not true! Didn’t you see the end of Keystone XL? We’ve also blocked a bunch of oil terminals and methane-intensive (liquefied natural gas) refineries on the West Coast. We block permits, get insurers and loan-givers to back out, all sorts of tactics. Lobbyists are powerful but citizen activism can change infrastructure and corporate investments (and thus our future) in big ways.

    • Anonymous

      I feel like the helpful change would be to talk to people about how to address the effects of climate change in their area, rather than trying to make them sign on to there being a vague global problem of climate change. So talk to the Southeast about how hurricanes and floods have gotten worse, and the Northwest about drought and fires, and then tackle actual solutions for those areas. We have a lot of people on the West Coast suddenly fully aware of how power gets to them and fully engaged in forcing change. We are also fully engaged in how to fix the water issues given that LA sucks up a massive amount of water that should never have been sent to them.

    • Anon

      While I agree with the broader point, I fear that, like so much of “let’s change the way we talk about this” conversation happening right now, this is a way for people to feel like they are doing something without actually doing anything. Who cares whether it is climate change or climate crisis or climate emergency? People who want to ignore the problem are going to ignore the problem and no amount of changing language is going to change that.

      But then I am getting increasingly annoyed by the energy expended on changing the way people talk rather than changing what we are talking about.

  20. In-laws shake ice at me

    Are you all ready for another tale of my in laws? Things are really bad. Mil volunteered to babysit our three month old on Friday. She showed up at the door with two women she knows from her yoga business and socializes with, told us we didn’t mind if she had friends over. I know we handled this poorly, but in the moment we just said “ummm..ok?” And left.

    My husband was/is throughly freaked out by the one woman she brought (she’s very strange and I find her awkward but she makes my husband’s skin crawl) and I was really uncomfortable with the whole thing. Once we got in the car we were both very upset about that she brought those women around and whether she might leave the baby alone with one or both of them. (There is a history of this- it was handled by my husband- I am not supposed to bring it up.) So we went back after doing one short errand. When I got there the baby was crying so I just took her from my MIL and gave her a bottle in the other room. MIL started yelling “what are you doing?” And I said I was worried about the baby and was uncomfortable the friends left the house but apparently stayed outside.

    My husband just started talking to her about how it’s really just us and we need to know in advance if people are coming over and meeting the baby and she stared acting like we are crazy for asking this. Then she said her friends come to our home without us knowing all the time when she babysits . ( I don’t know if this is true but she hasn’t babysat in a while ) and that she would never be mad if we wanted to bring friends to her home when she wasn’t there. Then she said I was very disrespectful and hurtful to her friends. I said I’m sorry but I cant worry about their feelings when they come uninvited to my home and I get to choose comfort as a new mom over politeness when it comes to my kids. I said she put us in a really bad spot and she did it on purpose.

    My husband said I was out of line for accusing her of doing it on purpose. She said I was out of line and she was doing me a huge favor by babysitting and I said I’d rather not have this help and not worry about these strange people around my baby. So my MIL opens the front door and screams, at the top of her lungs “you are so abusive” before slamming my front door and letting the neighbors and her friend hear.

    I am sure everyone thinks I should have let me husband handle this. Now he’s furious at me but I just…can’t feel bad. I should add that my mil is a therapist so the abuse allegation is really upsetting. Nothing I did is consistent with my understanding of abuse but she has this way of twisting stuff around. Serious false claims of abuse really freak me out. On the other hand, she had confided in me just a week earlier that her husband had accused her of being abusive during an argument, which we both agreed was beyond the pale, so maybe this is just something she learned hurts a lot and wanted to use.

    Anyway, my husband refuses to discuss it, which is exactly how things always go. If anyone has advice for going forward let me know, but thanks for reading. I just had to get it all off my chest.

    • Cb

      Wait, what? Why are you the bad guy here? Did your husband actually handle the first instance or did he just tell you he did and was hoping it wouldn’t happen again? She brought random people into your home, with your unvaccinated baby in the midst (albeit hopefully the tail-end of a pandemic), despite you asking her not to. You are absolutely in the right and she sounds completely unhinged. And it isn’t a bigger kid who could tell you if they were uncomfortable, it is a tiny baby!

      • Senior Attorney

        +1,000,000 to “wait, what?”

        This is insane and you need to never let your MIL babysit again and possibly never let her in your house again. And OMG she’s a THERAPIST????

        • Anon

          Sorry to generalize (especially if any readers here are therapists) but I know four people IRL who are therapists (or psychologists) and every one of them is a trainwreck, in their own way. I’m sure there are therapists out there who have their ish together in their personal lives, but I don’t know any.

          • Senior Attorney

            Oh, I’m well aware! There’s a phrase “the unhealed healer” and it is spot on. (I feel like my kid is one of the rare ones whose head is on reasonably straight, but still… unconventional.)

          • Anonymous

            My cousin is a psychologist (with her doctorate) and she’s the most insecure human I have ever met to the point that she has no identity without influence from others, I can’t imagine how she helps clients.

          • Anon

            One of my super craziest friends who couldn’t ever hold a job past basically the probationary period decided her talents needed to be shared with the world and became a life and career coach. I love her to pieces, but I would never, ever in a million years take one word of her advice.

          • Anon

            One of my best friends is a psychologist and is an incredibly amazing, level headed, caring person.

        • Seventh Sister

          My MIL is a psychologist and since she knows all about psychology, she truly believes she has 0 issues (she’s a pretty textbook narcissist). She may be good as a therapist, but she has no objectivity or self-reflection about the way she treats her own family.

    • Anonymous

      You need to get a babysitter that is not your MIL. Save visiting with the baby for family visits. Full stop.

      Separately, I would suggest you apologize to your husband for losing your cool in the moment, and have him deal with his mother from now on. This is more of a peacekeeping play than anything else. You will not be using her for babysitting.

      Consider revisiting using MIL as a sitter when your kid is older, but for now, go out less or get a non-MIL sitter.

      • Op

        Thanks. To clarify, we absolutely do not need her to babysit. She totally volunteered so that we could have some alone time. But actually just to have people over at our house.

    • Anonymous

      I think your husband was out of line for chastising you in front of his mother. Sounds like she saw it as an opening and ran with it. I don’t think it would’ve escalated so much if he had had your back in the moment.

      He has a teensy bit of a point that the “on purpose” comment was a little much. But I probably would’ve said much worse in that situation so I commend you for holding it together as much as you did, and DH should too.

    • Anonymous

      Just get a divorce. Your husband doesn’t have your back. He doesn’t respect you.

      • Anon

        +1 – this is still a problem with your spouse. Your in-laws are part of it but the origin is your spouse.

      • Anonymous

        Wow, I keep seeing posts like this that suggest divorce at the drop of a hat. It seems like there is a large cohort of people who are going to end up alone with their cats because they have zero life skills. Learning how to successfully manage your in-laws is part of life, unless you wed an orphan.

        • Anon

          I think the majority of “divorce him” posts here are over the top too, fwiw, but I’m actually inclined to agree with this one. The MIL was way out of line and the husband immediately taking his mother’s side and blaming his wife is extremely concerning. Fewer things will torpedo a marriage faster than a man choosing his parents over his wife. Yes, managing in-laws and their various quirks and difficulties is something many happily married couples deal with, but you generally do so with more support from your spouse.

        • Anone

          +1
          Divorce should not be the immediate advice. Marriages all have challenges and they take work.

        • anon

          Alternatively, some of you will end up married to men who don’t respect you and MILs who are trash just because you think being alone is the worst possible outcome in life.

          • Anon

            +1 to this! I would never put up with what a small number of women here think is reasonable behavior. I would much rather be alone with my cat!

          • Anonymous

            The issue is that you can’t just divorce a guy once you have kids. If you get divorced, he will still be part of your life until your youngest child is 18 or older, and will have significant power over both you and your children. You won’t be able to move without losing access to your children, and you will have to leave them alone for extended periods of time with a person who may not be equipped to care for them adequately. In many cases it’s a rational decision to remain married until the kids are out of the house.

          • Anon

            …. so don’t have kids with them. Better yet, don’t marry them. This is not a difficult concept.

      • Anonymous

        Not to play devils advocate but OP admits that she didn’t handle the situation particularly well, and she’s not entirely wrong. It played out like: DH pulls MIL aside to set boundary, MIL is mad, when DH doesn’t back down MIL baits OP, OP takes the bait, DH gets mad at OP, MIL smells blood and attacks even more, OP gets more upset, MIL delivers a killing blow.

        It sounds like OP and DH had talked about how to handle MIL. They both slipped up when they allowed MIL to wriggle out of DH enforcing a boundary with her. MIL successfully shifted the focus to OP and pitted DH and OP against each other so she could escape the blame she deserved. DH and OP should both apologize to each other and also limit contact with MIL.

      • Anon

        This isn’t a MIL problem. I mean, she’s awful and should never babysit again, but the problem is with your spouse. It’s bad enough when your spouse won’t stand up to his parents on your behalf, but he’s actively blaming you for the situation, which is even worse.

      • Anon

        I wouldn’t jump straight to divorce and I don’t think the poster who suggested it meant it literally as in go draw up the paperwork today, but this is a giant issue, it is a marriage-ending type of issue, and it’s not one that you should just “get over.”

        Your husband needs to be on your team and your baby’s team. He can’t be on both. And since it’s his mother, he needs to be the one drawing and enforcing boundaries with her. You need to agree on these boundaries ahead of time, and you need to be consistent. Both with his mom, and with your family. If your husband has any issues with liberties your family takes, you also need to agree and draw boundaries.

        I don’t think you two are going to figure this out on your own so you should see a marriage counselor for this.

        You should also get used to paying for professional babysitting, because there is only so much you can demand when you’re getting something for free.

    • MechanicalKeyboard

      WTH??!! 1. Your MIL brought random people around your infant without telling you 2. Your MIL brought random people around your infant in a PANDMEIC! 3. Your MIL said that she often brings random people around your baby during a pandemic without informing you. 4. Your MIL screamed at you and called you abusive because you tried to enforce reasonable boundaries around your infant.

      You need to explore other arrangements for your family. You didn’t do anything wrong here. I don’t see that you yelled or said anything outrageous. Your MIL is untrustworthy and lacks judgement. Seeing the baby less will make her upset but that is not your problem. Your duty is to your infant and your #1 job is to keep her safe. Protecting your MIL’s feelings is not one of your responsibilities.

      • Anon

        also +1000

        I babysat a ton as a teenager, and bringing friends over was an absolute non-starter, no-no, grounds for firing. I see no difference here PLUS the addition of the pandemic risk.

        Also, 100% therapists weaponize their therapy-speak to gaslight others. Don’t fall for it.

        You are in the right here, 1000%.

      • Anonymous

        I was going to respond separately below, but this perfectly encapsulates my feelings on this subject. You did not do anything wrong in this situation when you put your child’s safety and health first and addressed a situation that completely blindsided you. Yes, you may have been angry and upset. Because you put in a situation that was upsetting. Your husband needs to have your back and your mother-in-law totally turned the tables on you and tried to make herself into the victim when she was called out for her poor judgment and behavior. That was manipulative and do not allow her to gaslight you into second-guessing your perfectly understandable response.

    • Anon

      So, I don’t know if others feel similarly but my desire to “get along and go along” with both my parents and my MIL (my FIL is dead) went out the window when I had my son. When the dispute is about how to cook the Thanksgiving turkey, fine, that’s not the hill I want to die on. When the dispute is about the safety and well-being of my child, I will die on that hill, every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I don’t really care about “offending” people or making anyone look bad in front of their friends if I have to do that to ensure weird randos don’t have access to my infant; if you don’t want to look stupid in front of your friends don’t bring your friends to my house uninvited, LOL. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. All of this is a long-winded way to say, OP, I don’t think you’re in the wrong and I think the only way forward I would have, in your situation, is to minimize contact with my in-laws as much as possible. They do not, and never will, respect your boundaries. If your husband isn’t on board with minimizing contact, I’d ask myself whether the relationship has what it takes to go the distance. And I’ve been married over 2 decades, so I don’t say things like that lightly.

      • test run

        Where has the phrase “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” been all my life?? SO GOOD.

    • Bonnie Kate

      It’s not weird AT ALL that you don’t want people who you don’t know in your house, especially when you’re not even there. I think how you handled it was really normal – and honestly kudos for you for being assertive and saying what you were feeling – and her reaction was so over the top. I don’t think that you should have just let DH handle it since it was in your house. I have a very open relationship with my inlaws (necessary since I work for them in our family business) and I find the most destructive thing in family relationships is letting things go unsaid and resentment building. I’d rather say the thing, hopefully kindly if possible, and risk momentary discomfort/anger than let resentment build.

      Anyway, practically, plus 100 to finding a new babysitter.

      • Anon

        Especially in a pandemic with an unvaxxed kid! Do you even know if these people are vaccinated?

      • Anonymous

        Yep, free babysitting from the in-laws is no longer on the table here. That way, this specific problem never happens again. Longer term, you and your husband need to get on the same page regarding communication with his family. In joint conversations, you should always be respectful and supportive. You MIL didn’t do this “on purpose” but it was not something that either you or your husband are comfortable with for the care of your child.

    • Anon

      I am so sorry this happened! I have in-law issues too and my husband has a hard time taking my side. He is very loyal to his family and tries to keep everyone happy. I would do what you can to minimize future problems which means not using your MIL as a babysitter as others have suggested. I have given up trying to get my husband to take my side so we limit our contact with them or he visits separately.

    • Anon

      “I am sure everyone thinks I should have let me husband handle this. Now he’s furious at me but I just…can’t feel bad. I should add that my mil is a therapist so the abuse allegation is really upsetting.” That’s horrible. I’m sorry she did that to you.

      Your husband needs to handle this. Let me save you some of the therapy: in his world, this is “solved” by you employing the same coping mechanisms that he has always employed. You are the problem because you are the one kicking up a fuss. He feels put in the middle and would feel less put in the middle if you would stop making such a big deal out of this.

      All of that ignores the basic fact that as a married couple, it’s his job to support you, even against his own mother. She is putting him in the middle, not you. She’s the one behaving badly, which makes her son choose between defending her and defending you. This is a really hard leap for some people to make, but once it’s made, it’s very easy to resolve these issues: defend your spouse and tell everyone else that respecting your spouse is not optional.

      Pragmatically, she no longer watches your kiddo.

      • Anon

        “Let me save you some of the therapy: in his world, this is “solved” by you employing the same coping mechanisms that he has always employed. You are the problem because you are the one kicking up a fuss. He feels put in the middle and would feel less put in the middle if you would stop making such a big deal out of this.”

        In a nutshell, this is how my dad has handled my BPD mother and her outbursts for 50 years. The solution isn’t for the person causing the problem to change; the solution is for literally every other human on the planet who comes into contact with her to stop saying her behavior is a problem and just roll with it. My mom has lost contact with 2 of her 5 siblings and has only a tenuous relationship with another because, guess what, other people really don’t like dealing with craziness and sucking it up. The line for me was when my dad tried to teach my son to take this attitude with my mom, insisting that how she acted wasn’t a problem if he didn’t think it was a problem. No, it’s a problem, and my dad is the only one who didn’t think so. We severely limited my son’s contact with my parents after that incident (and my mom’s outburst that preceded it).

        I say all this, OP, to point out that not only will you be expected to take this attitude toward his parents, but eventually your children will be recruited to “don’t say anything about how they’re acting because it might upset Grandma and Grandpa,” and the gaslighting gets passed to another generation. I was not willing to have my son have to tiptoe around my mom the way my brother and I tiptoed around her our entire childhoods, and recreate the same trauma for him that we went through. That was a bridge too far for me; you have to decide for yourself what that means to you.

        • Anon

          I’m the Anon at 1:16 pm and I was describing, in part, how my father and stepmother handled my sister’s BPD and violent outbursts.

    • No Face

      You have gotten great advice, but I just want to reiterate that your MIL should never, ever babysit any of your children ever again. Even if your relationship improves over time. Still no babysitting without your presence, under any circumstance. Your child’s safety is paramount. Do not feel any pressure to leave your child in the presence of a “strange” woman who makes your husband’s “skin crawl.”

      Your husband’s proposal (just let you guys know ahead of time when other people are coming over) only works when you are dealing with a reasonable person. This proposal is not appropriate for your MIL. She has bad judgment. It is better to pay a babysitter, or trade babysitting with other parents you trust.

      Whether you were “right” about whether she did it “on purpose” is irrelevant.

      • anon

        +1. I am super late to this, but hopefully OP reads it. Years ago, I posted on the Moms board about an issue with my in-laws. It was a very different situation, especially because DH had my back, but it involved in-laws and a safety concern that they treated as unreasonable. In-laws had a dog that had already bitten 2 people. MIL was convinced the dog would never bite someone while she was in the room, that the dog would never bite a child, that there would be warning signs. DH and I decided that our toddler could not be in the same room as the dog, except briefly when one parent carried him through. We were treated like we were absolutely over-reacting. We were blamed for messing up holiday plans. Instead of isolating the dog in a bedroom or just outside/inside depending on where we were gathering, DH and I spent 2 years’ worth of family gatherings with one of us keeping our son in the formal living room, where the dog already wasn’t allowed, while the rest of the family gathered throughout the house and in the backyard.

        I posted on the Moms site, and everyone said that as a parent, my job was to keep my child safe, even if that came at the expense of others’ feelings. And as the parent, I got to choose what was necessary to keep my child safe, even if other people didn’t agree. That really helped me stick to my boundaries.

        You can guess how it turned out. The dog bit someone else (fortunately, not a child). MIL was in the room. The dog didn’t give any warning. It was a pretty bad bite–went through workman’s pants and tore skin. In-laws put the dog down. MIL (but not FIL) eventually apologized to DH, but not to me.

        Oh, another similarity? MIL is a therapist and is GREAT at making you feel like you’re the unreasonable one.

        • Anon

          I remember this well. I am sorry someone was bitten, and sorry that you had to take these precautions for so long, but so relieved that you did take successful precautions and that no children were attacked.

        • Anon

          I remember this! I’m glad you stood your ground and kept your child safe from this dog.

          My mom was bitten by my cousins’ dog. Before it bit my mom, it had bitten a baby sitter so badly she bled all over the living room floor – my aunt and uncle came home from date night to an ambulance and police outside their house. I’m still not sure how they were legally allowed to keep the dog after that, but thankfully my mom’s bite wasn’t as bad – she was horrendously bruised but not bleeding, BUT ONLY because she had a cup of (cold) coffee in her hand that she threw in the dogs’ face. And after all of that, they didn’t put it down and it went on to bite and seriously injure a third person. Some people are just truly insane about their dogs. I say this as a dog lover.

    • Anonymous

      You need to cut this crazy woman off immediately. The “abuse” allegation is disturbing enough, but having strangers in your home while you aren’t there?

    • Anonymous

      Since your last post about the ice shaking what work have you done on this in individual and solo therapy?

        • Op

          On Christmas, my husband’s stepdad yelled my name and rattled the ice in his glass when I finally sat my pregnant self down after cooking for everyone. I was humiliated but got him another drink. My husband admitted that any push back other than “oh hey you probably didn’t know this, but I actually don’t love having ice rattled at me, so if you could please maybe just ask next time just ask for a refill, as a favor to me, yes I know I’m very sensitive about stuff, it’s a me problem, of course you didn’t mean it and I’m so happy to get you more because you’re of course so welcome here and I’m happy to serve you…ect ect ect” would have been World War III. He and my MIL also pushed boundaries by bringing food as a “favor” the day we brought the first baby home then insisting on staying to eat it and not leaving and I ended up waiting on them rather than showering and dealing with all the gross post pardon stuff.

        • Anonymous

          I think this is the poster whose FIL shakes his glass of ice at her to demand drink refills.

  21. Notinstafamous

    Any advice about dealing with parents and finances as they get older. My parents are in their early 70s and are likely going to run out of money in about 10 years if they live as they currently are. No house to sell. One parent has a degenerative condition that will mean either early death or very expensive residential care. I think they’re just living in the moment and I don’t want to fuss at them about money while they’re trying to enjoy this time, but I’m a bit worried since there are no plans for what happens when the money runs out or if care is needed. Spouse and I are just socking away cash in the event we need to pay for care (and if we don’t it’ll just be for our retirement), but we wouldn’t have enough to maintain their current lifestyle. One sibling who is not in a position to help financially, but could help with practical/life things. I think the answer is to just let things run their course, but would love any thoughts.

    • Anonymous

      We’re at the start of this same issue with my MIL, so I don’t have any great advice yet, but thus far, our tactic is the same – save ourselves with the expectation that we may end up needing to use it for her care/housing. Following this with interest though.

    • Anon

      Depending on what state you’re in, you might look at setting up a Medicaid trust. I know in New York, this is a very normal thing, where Medicaid will pay for LTC needs; however, there are a lot of rules.

    • Anon

      Don’t allow them to give you any money. If they need to get on Medicaid to pay for long term care, there is a lookback period of several years.

    • Anonymous

      Do not pay for any of their expenses yourself. Encourage them to engage in Medicaid planning.

        • anon

          From a thread on the July 6th Coffee Break discussing dealing with medically fragile parents with OP paying for some or all of their daily needs: 100% DO NOT pay for this stuff. Setting a precedent of paying for their needs out of your own pocket could allow your county or state to come after you for the sum total of their medical needs. Medicare and Medicaid will pull every corrupt trick they can to avoid paying your fair share. (See: filial responsibility laws.)
          Source: living a similar nightmare now.
          Highly recommend you look at that thread and I hope you get some good advice today as well.

        • Anon

          I’m not the 11:43 poster, but certain states have filial responsibility laws, where the state attempts to put adult children on the hook for their parents’ care.

    • Anon

      Others have brought it up, but there are planners you can work with to help set your parents up for going on Medicaid when the time comes. We worked with one for my grandmother when she had to go into nursing care at what turned out to be the end of her life (she was 91 when she went in, but we weren’t sure how long she would be in it). She lasted about a month in nursing care, and so died with a small amount of assets remaining (under $10k), but we met with a planner to make sure that once her limited assets were gone she would be able to get care. There are a lot of rules around how to qualify for Medicaid (to make sure people can’t easily game the system) and so that’s why I think a planner is useful; the planner my dad and I met with knew tons of things we had no idea about and that weren’t easily researchable. It was well worth the money we paid the planner (out of our own pockets) to get a plan for my grandma, even though she didn’t end up using it.

    • Anon

      My in-laws are in their 70s and have no savings but currently have decent jobs, so we’ll be in this situation whenever they get too ill to work. We’ve made it very clear that we will put a roof over their heads and feed them, but it will be a very bare bones lifestyle and will be in our LCOL town, not their current big city. All the luxuries they enjoy currently should absolutel be the first thing to go. I don’t think we can afford nursing care without raiding our own retirement/kids’ college savings (which we’re unwilling to do), so they’ll likely need to use Medicare and/or Medicaid for that.

    • Anon

      I answered a post about this last week, but look into an attorney who specializes in this. I had to do this with my mother as she was running out of money and was in a nursing home following hospitalization. The eldercare attorney’s office has staff who specialized in Medicare/medicaid coordination and I dealt with them day to day. The attorney did an irrevocable trust which protected the little money she had left. The entire goal for my mom was to keep enough money to live on when she recovered, which sadly she didn’t, but it really really helped to have this in place for the remaining months she had left.

  22. Anonymous

    Has anyone purchased anything at Aerie? What’s the quality like and how does sizing run (large/small)? Also what sort of pieces do you like from there? They have some swimsuits I’m eager to pull the trigger on, and I feel like I’ve heard good things about their undies but I don’t remember if that’s right or not.

    • anon

      It’s been about 1.5 years or so since I’ve bought anything new, but I’ve been happy with their bras and underwear, especially for the price point. Some styles are better than others– they have some truly seamless panties that are fabulous and some others that are called seamless but actually still have them, which is annoying. I don’t buy much underwear from other sources on line so I can’t compare sizing, but I usually find I need a larger size than I thought. I’m really petite (normally always default to size 0 or 00/xs or xxs if available) but get a M in their underwear. Their bras hold up well for me and I am not gentle with them. (I wear a 30C so they’re not exactly doing too much heavy lifting, but still.) The one thing I’ve had an issue with is straps separating and the elastic showing through, but that could have been because I was drying my bras in the dryer for unknown reasons.

    • CPA Lady

      I am a hard to fit small band big cup person and I love one of their bralet tes so much that I have it in four colors. I also have a ton of different styles of underwear and several sleep shirts and tanks. I’ve been very happy with the quality for the price. I haven’t tried the swim stuff.

      • Anon

        Which bralet?? I am small band, big cup, short waisted, and I’ve been getting a lot of tempting Cosabella ads but aerie’s price point is much more appealing!

        • CPA Lady

          The eyelash lace plunge. I get the small DD size. I’m a 30F. Also short waisted.

    • Anon

      The underwear can be cute, and some of the styles are quite comfortable as well. Not necessarily the longest lived, but the key is to buy them when they’re on sale (I don’t really want my underwear to last forever and ever). I haven’t tried the swimsuits, but I’m hopeful they would also be well fitted? My impression is that they’re not particularly vanity sized since they have a pretty wide size range (so I don’t have to size down there).

    • Anon

      I’ve bought their undies since college and still do. They’re comfortable and cute enough. AE swimsuits used to be better but now they’re not great. The few I’ve tried on are pullover which I don’t love because they’re hard to get off when they’re wet. I like their lounge wear and bralettes but the last time I bought was maybe a couple of years ago o can’t speak to quality now.

    • anon

      I’ve shopped at Aerie a lot. I’m petite and small busted and find the sizing works well for me. 100% of my day-to-day bras are from there, and I find they hold up very well for the price. I was never thrilled with their underwear and prefer the Gap breathe line.

      I also have a number of cute dresses/cover ups/rompers from them – fun and wash up okay. I’d say in the Old Navy level for quality, maybe Gap. I tried on a bunch of swimsuits a few years back but didn’t end up liking them for hte cost and went higher end.

      Sizing seems pretty standard for mall brands – I’m 5’2″, 120 (muscular) and wear an XS in most things.

    • Anonymous

      My teenager bought a swimsuit at Aerie this season. It is only suitable for sitting around. It does not stay in place if she walks, swims, etc.

    • Anonymous

      I like their underwear and bralettes; they last longer than pieces from Victoria Secret or the random brands I find at Marshall’s.

  23. Anonymous

    Reliable place for affordable wrap dresses? Loft, Ann Taylor, and Banana Republic will occasionally have some, as does Nordstrom (mainly the Leota brand), but I’m looking to stock up now that I’m at a heavier size. Also does anyone have thoughts on wearing wrap dresses every day? I remember there was a season of RHONY where they made fun of one of the women (who was a working professional) for always wearing wrap dresses, and I had no idea that was even a thing. I’m still pretty sure that’s just a thing among the sort of snooty, snarky women who would be on a reality show, but someone please let me know if that’s actually something people notice in the real world. XD

    • Anon

      I was going to say Suzi Chin for Maggie London but apparently that label is now defunct! Though I guess that means they might be very affordable on ebay. Have you considered Karen Kane? (Not particularly cheap but sales happen.)

      I think if you mix up the necklines/cuts, it would be weird to notice.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know about wrap dresses but I‘ve gotten a few Lark and Ro Amazon dresses (for the same reason) and they’ve been good.

    • Anon

      Boden has them at least occasionally. I’m not usually not looking for them but I know I’ve seen more than one there.

    • Anon

      Considering how many of the Real Housewives have ended up in jail, getting sued, or in divorce court, they’re not people I would be taking any kind of advice from, ever.

    • Anon for this

      I have a ton of Anne Klein wraps/faux wraps in heavy rotation. I have some that have coordinating suit jackets that help mix up the look. Also, Macy’s usually has a decent selection of wrap/faux wraps.

      When I was a little heavier, I loved the Kiyonna wrap dresses. I’ve lost enough weight that their smallest size is too big now, but definitely check them out if you are a 14 or higher size wise.

  24. Anon

    Ugh, I made a mistake at work. I’m a lawyer and a super detailed, anxious, perfectionist, so this is eating me up. I’ve already called and tried to inform the partner that I work with on the matter and I have a plan for addressing it. But, still, my stomach is in knots waiting for a call back. And I’m frustrated at myself and at my work environment. I know I need to leave my dysfunctional group and find a new job, but I haven’t done so yet, and I feel like the mistake was partially the result of the disorganized partner blowing me off for months on end while I try to engage/discuss issues and end up having to complete projects in a rush. I know it will be ok and I just need to step up to identify and resolve it, but right now I’m feeling pretty awful and defeated.

    • Anon

      I’m sorry, also a lawyer and I have so much empathy. If anxiety about the mistake continues to be a disproportionate problem, you pcp should be able to prescribe something to take as needed until you get some distance or recommend a therapist to help you reframe.

    • Anon

      Ugh I am so sorry. I know how that feels and it is the worst. It is like all of your hard work means nothing when you make a mistake and you just want to win the lottery and quit! I will just say that we have all been there and to keep your head up. Nobody is perfect! Sending you hugs!! You will get through this!

    • Senior Attorney

      Repeat after me: Everybody makes mistakes.

      You are doing the right thing by flagging it immediately and having a plan to fix it. I know it feels awful but YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING AND EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES.

      Hugs from an internet stranger who totally knows how awful this is.

      • Senior Attorney

        Correction: Who knows how awful it FEELS. Honestly in the scheme of things it’s not awful at all: Everybody makes mistakes and as my dad used to say, what matters is not whether you get into trouble, but how and whether you get out of it. You have a plan to get out of it, so you’re good.

        • anon

          Perhaps I have made so many (am I now super human??), it honestly doesn’t bug me. I fix it, I implement a change, and that particular mistake doesn’t happen again. Ish happens, but I don’t do anything that would cause bodily or even property injury if I make a mistake so there are far worse things in life. I regularly get promoted and get good reviews, so it’s clearly not an issue.

          Mistakes are an issue when people hide them, don’t fix them, don’t learn from them, and make them again. Otherwise, it’s fine. It will be fine! Promise.

          • Senior Attorney

            Plus a million to “Mistakes are an issue when people hide them.” A former law partner of mine used to say “it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up.” And I don’t know if it’s true, but he also claimed that 90% of people in jail for white collar crime were convicted of something that happened after the investigation was underway, e.g. Martha Stewart.

        • No Face

          Accurate. It is a terrible feeling, but there is no way to avoid making any mistakes if you practice law for years.

          I made a major mistake relatively early in my career. If figured out what happened, owned my part in the issue, and wrote some recommendations for solving the issue moving forward. The partners involved mentioned the incident in my annual review but said that my ability to own my part of the issue showed emotional maturity, and that it was mostly the client’s fault. I worked with those partners for several years.

    • CHL

      I’m so sorry you’re having a tough time. It sucks, both everyone makes mistakes and it sounds like this is a toxic dysfunctional environment. just steel your way through, maybe take a walk around the block or something, take a minute to stew and then let it go.

  25. Anonymous

    Money Qs! I am basically financially illiterate, so please don’t judge too harshly. O:)

    1) Should I start contributing to my 401K/Roth before I have an emergency fund setup? I feel like I’m taking forever to setup an emergency fund because I am very bad about putting money in savings, so maybe it would be best to just force myself to get some money into retirement savings now.

    2) For big law attorneys, how much is your emergency fund and how many months would you expect that to last you? I know the rule is 3 to 6 months, but I don’t know that I’d actually need *that* much in an emergency (where I’m an assuming the emergency is being fired). I’m pretty sure I could scale things way back and survive off ramen for a few months. Do I actually need 3 months’ salary in savings? Six months of my current salary feels like it would take years to save.

    3) Assuming I should start on a 401K/Roth while also working on my emergency savings, which should I do (Roth or 401K)?

    • Anon

      The rule is not six months salary, it’s six months living expenses. If you’re in Big Law but living very frugally, it will likely work out to a lot less than six months salary. I think we kept about $25k in cash when I was a Big Law junior associate which was obviously much less than six months salary. Our rent was under $2k per month so we were comfortable with it.
      If you have any kind of 401k match, do that, but I’m guessing you don’t since Big Law generally doesn’t. I would personally fund the emergency fund before starting any kind of retirement fund, assuming you’re not leaving a matching contribution on the table. But I know other people are more insistent that everyone should be saving at a young age.

    • Anon

      You need 3-6 months of EXPENSES, not salary. The two should not be the same.
      I do not operate in the world of BigLaw type money, but for me, once I had about a month’s expenses in my savings account (my checking acts as a clearing account for everything in/out), I started contributing to my 401(k) just enough to get the company match. Only once I fully funded my emergency fund did I really start increasing my contributions. If you have outstanding debt, you should probably pay that off, too, before increasing your savings beyond the company match.
      If you are in BigLaw, it seems unlikely you’d qualify for a Roth. That said, it’s usually best to do the 401(k) anyway for the tax advantage.

    • Senior Attorney

      The answer to both the retirement and emergency savings issue is “pay yourself first.” Have money taken directly from your paycheck and put into an emergency savings account and into a retirement account. If you are in BigLaw you should have plenty of money to make that happen. And if you are in BigLaw you probably make too much money to qualify for a Roth, so 401(k) is probably your only option.

      As for the second question, worry about that once you have actually started and are in the habit of saving.

    • Anonymous

      1- yes start today

      2- you’re a big law attorney? Omg start saving what are you doing? Where is your money even going? Contribute the max to your 401k monthly and 1k per paycheck immediately divert to savings

    • anon

      The 3-6 months is not 3-6 months salary but what you would need for 3-6 months. To me, that’s much less than my normal monthly burn but a lot less than salary range. I have close to a year of what I could survive off of without a salary. I go with more than a raman budget because if I’m without a job, I want to make sure I have funds available to do things like buy interview clothes, travel to interviews, potentially take people out for lunch/coffee/dinner/drinks to network, etc. So basically what I’d be spending if I cut out a bunch of my luxuries but kept my baseline living with a buffer for job searching related expenses.

    • Xin

      On a biglaw salary, you most likely will be able to comfortably start contributing to your 401k (and also start paying your student loans, in case you have any, and if you don’t, that’s pretty great and will make the rest of your personal finances even better/easier) while starting to save up your emergency fund. I’m a few years in to my career and have generally made a biglaw market salary (but I don’t get anywhere near biglaw bonuses) and it’s not difficult to max out my 401k and a backdoor Roth IRA every year, even while paying several thousand into my student loans a month. (So the answer to that is to do both, and also max out your HSA if you have that option.) Though it’s true that things sometimes felt a bit tight in my first few months of work, between starting student loan payments, the cost of moving into my first apartment after law school, etc. etc. So I would expect it to take a few months, maybe a year, to start feeling more settled in financially.

      There’s a blog called Biglaw Investor that goes over the numbers for first-year associates in a general sense and has some beginner personal finance tips that should mostly be helpful. (I personally got my introductory personal finance education from the book I Will Teach You to be Rich by Ramit Sethi.) I personally choose to have a pretty big emergency fund… of an entire year (which I think most people would say is way too much to save in cash), though I think common wisdom may be that 3 months is enough for fairly junior associates. (I don’t think it’s been that common in recent years, at least in NYC, for fairly junior biglaw associates to be laid off without at least a few months’ warning?)

      • Xin

        And I meant my emergency fund is a year’s worth of expenses versus a year’s salary, which would be truly out of control! 3 months’ expenses is most likely enough emergency fund for a junior associate in biglaw with no dependents or other unique circumstances, though I probably personally wouldn’t be comfortable with less than 6.

    • Anonymous

      The statements “I am very bad about putting money in savings” and “I’m pretty sure I could scale things way back and survive off ramen for a few months” don’t really go together. I mean, you are demonstrating to yourself that you don’t do what you think you might be able to do, right now.

      I think you need to figure out what your current expenses actually are, and think about which ones are necessary. And then make a budget, stick to it, and put money aside, both for expenses later in the year, emergencies and other savings. Super dull, of course, but living off ramen as an emergency plan is also dull, after about two days. :)

    • Walnut

      You’d likely benefit from a personal finance primer from Dave Ramsey/Suze Orman/whoever the personal finance gurus are today to take you through all the basics. I’m a fan of Frugalwoods in the personal finance blogosphere as well to start learning more in this space.

  26. LLC formation?

    My spouse owns a house along with his sibling. They are looking to rent it out and want to use a property management company to handle the rental process. Property management company says my husband and his sister should form an LLC to receive the rental proceeds distributed by the property management company. Is this sound advice? What does forming an LLC offer? Why can’t they each receive 1/2 of the rental proceeds and pay their respective share of taxes? Am I missing something?

    • Anon

      Yes, generally an LLC will provide more liability protection than a partnership will (the default in most states if there is no entity formed). This is definitely a question for a lawyer though. A lawyer will be able to walk your husband and his sister through the tax, liability, and control consequences of each type of entity.

      • anonyforthisy

        Yes, and make sure to ask about state filing requirements as well, not just federal. There will likely be filings with the Secretary of State (annual informational reports and a filing fee) to keep up with.

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