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When you've faced sexism in the workplace, has it made you wish that someone had better prepared you to deal with it — maybe your parents, or mentors? Do you feel like your college or university prepared you for workplace sexism, either in undergrad or grad school?
A recent op-ed in Ms. Magazine made us think that this would be a great discussion to have here — and we'd love to hear readers' thoughts!
In a Weekly News Update earlier this year, we linked to a piece called “Universities Are Not Preparing Educated Women for the Sexism That Greets Them After Graduation.” Dr. Christina Wyman, a writer and adjunct professor, wrote it in part to respond to writer Joseph Epstein's sexist, condescending op-ed that suggested Dr. Jill Biden drop the “Dr.”
Dr. Wyman, who earned a PhD in curriculum, instruction, and teacher education, wrote that her university didn't prepare her for the sexism she'd encounter in the workplace (specifically, in academia). As a professor, she had to deal with “salary negotiations and discrepancies across gendered lines” as well as “sexually charged student evaluations [and] unwanted sexual advances, topped with administrative advice to write less and perform more service.”
Here's how she concluded her piece:
Degree-conferring institutions have a responsibility to recognize and address infantilizing attitudes toward highly educated women. Preparing all students to combat these professional realities is part and parcel to receiving a high-quality education.
Only then can we, as Dr. Biden put it, begin to “build a world where the accomplishments of our daughters will be celebrated, rather than diminished.”
How about you, readers? Did your college or university address sexism in the workplace as something that women should be prepared for? What has surprised you about the sexism you've faced in your career? For those of you who've been in your careers for a while, do you now recognize some things as sexist that you didn't realize were sexist at the time (for example, employers' treatment of mothers)?
Stock photo via Stencil.
CountC
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Absolutely not. Neither my undergrad (class of ’02) or law school (class of ’08).
Senior Attorney
I was coming here to say that exact thing:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Hoo, boy! *wipes eyes* Yeah, no.
College class of ’83, law school class of ’88.
I could tell you stories, man…
anne-on
I feel like NOBODY warned me about how rough work travel would be (especially conferences!) as a young woman in my 20s. I remember telling a boss stories of the harassment/groping/light stalking that I’d experienced and he was flabbergasted and every women in earshot piled on with a variation of ‘oh, if you think that’s bad…’
Anonymous
As recently as the Fall of ’19, I was followed onto an elevator by a fellow attendee and potential company business partner when I declined his offer to come back to his hotel room and watch him take care of himself. He lectured me about how all married people did these things on the road and it didn’t count if I just watched.
Anon
Ewwww!
Anon
Around 2007 I summered at a small firm and the boss and I would frequently go get lunch together. He was absolutely appalled at the number of times I was cat-called or had something inappropriate yelled my way while we were walking. He almost got into a fight w/ one such guy and I had to explain to him we just keep walking. His response was “good think I had sons or I’d be in jail by now.”
anne-on
Is it terrible that my first reaction was hysterical laughter too? And my minor is in women’s studies!
I have so much respect for the working women in the 80’s and 90’s because working in/around start ups and then finance in the early aughts was still bad enough that I got a REAL thick skin REAL fast. That was compounded by traveling for work pre iphones/apps when you got to navigate that late night airport arrival at the mercy of local cabs with the sometimes sketchy drivers (no uber) no maps/yelp on your phone to help you ID which places you could grab a bite out at quickly, and no social networking pre-conference to connect with the other women in attendance so you didn’t have to deal with being hit on at dinner/at the bar solo.
Anon
+1. Not my undergrad (class of ’01) or law school (class of ’04). Frankly, until I started working, I truly believed that sexism was a relic of the past. I had never experienced any discrimination on the basis of my gender throughout any of my schooling, was always taught that women are equal, and was always able to be a high achiever. Man, was I in for a big slap in the face once I entered the work force, particularly big law. Even worse was after I had children and was mommy-tracked.
In hindsight, I agree with the poster below that none of my educational institutions really focused on career readiness (top 10 ranked private university for undergrad and top 15 ranked public university for law school).
Seventh Sister
As a tail-end GenXer who graduated a few years before you, I’m so sorry that you were led to believe that sexism doesn’t exist! I think that’s a real disservice to women (and men). It’s certainly more subtle than it was in decades past, but leading someone to believe that it doesn’t exist is just a ticket to misery.
anon
That is exactly the comment I came here to post. Well done, CountC.
Vicky Austin
Most of my education about sexism at work has happened here.
anon
None of my educational institutions really focused on career readiness so they didn’t really talk about it. But TBH, the thing that has surprised me most about sexism during my career is how little of it I have experienced. (I practiced in biglaw and am now a GC.) And the sexism I have experienced has not had an appreciable impact on my career opportunities or success.
If I’m honest, there are opportunities I’ve had specifically because I’m a woman (and one who practices in a historically male-dominated area) – special programs, mentorship opportunities, awards for women, conferences that I’ve been invited to bc they really wanted a woman on their panel – that I might not have had as a man of equivalent seniority/experience.
Graduated college in 03 and law school in 07.
Jeffiner
This is my experience, too. I’m in STEM and went to a STEM university that was maybe 20% female. I can maybe think of one time I experienced sexism during my career, and it was very minor and had no impact on me. Even having a child didn’t put me onto a mommy-track. I came back to work and everything went along as before. And there are the special programs and mentorship opportunities available for women that aren’t for men.
My current team of about 75 people has only 6 women on it, and I asked my boss once why he doesn’t hire more women. HR narrows down resumes to 5 for each open position, and my boss gets to interview those 5. He said he very rarely gets even one woman to interview.
My aunt wanted to be an engineer, but in the 70s she was not allowed to enroll in engineering classes at her chosen university. That’s certainly changed, but there was a report recently that women have zero chance of getting a job if they are the only female in the candidate pool. The sexism I see in STEM and in my company is the struggle women have just getting in the front door.
n
very late to this post but I would respectfully ask your boss to ask HR for more representative people to interview. When hiring for tech positions I make clear I expect to see women and diverse candidates and those people make it through to interviews. Leaders are responsible for opening the door, not just sitting in the chair.
anon
This is me, too. I believe and am upset by the stories other women tell, but in my own career, as a STEM person who has never worked at a place with more than 10% women, I’ve not had any significant negative experiences. Indeed, I’ve worked with a lot of great guys who I felt had my back, and had bosses that double-checked to make sure I was being paid fairly, etc. And, like the above poster, I’ve felt I sometimes got more opportunities as a result of being a woman. I also was/am very memorable, an have had experiences of people coming up to me and saying “oh, I remember that talk you gave like 5 years ago, it was really great.”.
For me right now, what I’m struggling with is wanting to have the chance to step back from my career for a few years, and just not seeing how to do that (no part time options at my workplace…) and then return. I think if women ruled the world we might be more accepting of phases of life and flowing in and out of intense work stages.
Cb
Haha, no, my Catholic finishing school for rich kids who couldn’t get into USC or USD or any of the good Catholic universities in no way prepared me to cope with sexism.
Anon
omg, this sounds like my experience. Rich Catholic finishing school, famous football team, you know the one.
Except I did indirectly learn about sexism there only later because in retrospect, the place was a den of toxic masculinity and alcoholism that I didn’t fully recognize until years after I’d left.
Blueblook
I suspect this is BC? I’m from Boston so don’t have much perspective as to its reputation outside of New England
Seventh Sister
I went to a women’s college, so I feel like it was a Big Topic and was reasonably well-addressed, at least for the time period (late 90s). They definitely encouraged us to speak up about workplace sexism, to leave jobs if we were miserable/the circumstances were untenable, and to communicate with the college/other alums if a placement turned out to be a den of harassment. I don’t think the stuff they told us or said to us would meet current criteria for Approved Career Coaching, but it was probably pretty forward-thinking for the time frame.
That said, I do think that there was a college-approved strain of hyper-perfectionism that didn’t help us actually be assertive, and no one really spoke about impostor syndrome (maybe it wasn’t codified) or how well mediocre guys would be treated in the workplace. Also, they definitely encouraged people to follow workplace hierarchy and to go to HR over problems, so I had to learn the hard way to approach HR with caution.
Aloe
I went to a Seven Sisters college in the early 2000s. Career office put intense pressure on grads to go into high earning careers like investment banking and consulting, and my reunion 5 years after grad had endless stories of miserable alums looking to make a career change or those that quit in despair and now were working at a cheese shop or whatever to figure things out. Lots of encouragement to try to be the one to get one of the few management spots, but no acknowledgement of the sacrifice and misery you may face in the process. Obviously these positions are also difficult for men, but some of the Seven Sisters seems to use those industries as model career paths that all the best students should aim for, and don’t acknowledge the drawbacks.
Anonymous
Yes and no. My current job was held out as the holy grail in my field for equal pay/hours etc, so I pretty much wrote off all the awful things I had to deal with in industry as temporary inconveniences and for me they were.
Anonymous
We did discuss it in both college (’95) and law school (’05), but most of my preparation for it came from experiencing it in real time both in the classroom and amongst my peers.
AnonATL
Same. I went to a school that was predominantly male (something like a 70/30 split) so I certainly experienced it but it was never discussed or actively prevented. There were plenty of women’s organizations that I’m sure held seminars and such, but it wasn’t institution-wide. I doubt they even offered a gender studies class.
Anonymous
LOL, nope. Never mentioned anywhere.
Anonymous
Yes tremendously
Anonymous
No. I did have one incident where I got a glimpse at the real world, but not what you mean.
I attended a public university and complained in the late 2000s about a sexist professor. I was president of the department’s student club at the time. I was called to the dean’s office and told that I needed to be careful or I could run his career. He then refused to call on me the rest of the semester, and nearly flunked my the essay final after I got 98-100% on all pre-complaint tests. (Turns out I could choose all exams or the average of all but one for my final grade, so I still aced the class). I would like to think that if a woman complained today, she would have more of a voice with social media and/or support/a process.
Anon
I went to Penn State while you-know-who was still working there, which should answer the question.
Anon
No but I also feel like colleges aren’t focused on anything to practically prepare you for life. Or maybe that was because I went to an Ivy where the best and highest goal was to get a PhD and be a professor (which many of my friends later did)?
LaurenB
I have the dubious honor of having taken a class w Joseph Epstein (of the “kiddo” editorial). He was full of himself back then, too.
Anonforthisone
Well sort of in that the partner of a large national firm interviewing me during OCIs in 2014 told me the reason they didn’t have many women or POC partners was because “you people” don’t work hard. Told the careers office, nothing happened.
Emma
It was vaguely discussed, so they tried, but no, I really wasn’t prepared for some of the things I encountered in my working life.
Side note – my bar association recently issued a report on sexism and harassment. It’s pretty bad. My (male) firm manager is making a huge deal of being SO SHOCKED and FLABBERGASTED about the contents of the reports. I mean, good on him for addressing it, but also, none of the contents of the report were in any way a surprise for literally any woman I know.
Anon
University didn’t prepare me for the workplace, period.
Anon
Yeah, this!
Anon
I’m curious about what workplace issues people *do* think that their universities prepared them for. I wouldn’t say that my undergrad did anything to prepare me for any sort of workplace, well, anything (beyond general knowledge base and honing things like writing and research skills). Law school was a little better; there was a bit of general discussion about practice (and my school has generally prided itself on focusing on practical, applicable skills and hiring professors with real-world experience and the like).
All that said, I personally haven’t really ever faced the sort of clear and obvious sexism that comes to mind here. I suppose it would be useful to have more “how to advocate for yourself” or how to make sure you’re not getting pushed the wrong way because of your sex, but I’m really not sure there’s a lot that a university could do there. It also seems like these things (particularly looking at this writer’s academia experiences) are going to be very industry and even individual workplace-specific.
MWK
Oddly my experience both mirrors and differs from the other posters here.
I graduated from a large state public undergraduate and law school (different schools in the University of California system) over 20 years ago and feel like they prepared me pretty well to anticipate and handle the more blaatant forms of harassment. At the very least, it did not surprise me to encounter it and I felt like I had the tools to handle in a real world way (as opposed to what we get in our annual training which is so completely out of touch with the practical realities of a law firm that it just makes me laugh.) Although in retrospect that was at least in part because what is considered acceptable behavior in work or work adjacent setting has changed so much that I was honestly not offended by things that I suspect many younger attorneys would be upset by today.
What I was unprepared for was the discrimination against mothers and the gentler, patronizing, paternalistic sorts of discrimination from men who thought they were doing me a favor by sparing me from certain types of cases/clients. By the time I had my first kid, I knew what I was getting myself in to and the professional compromises I was about to make but it would have been nice to have that information before I went into litigation.
kitten
Kind of, since my university was religious and I experienced much more sexism there than any job I’ve ever had.
Cat
Lol. No. But – in undergrad I learned how to take pride in beating someone who underestimated me, and that has stuck around!
Not that Anne, the other Anne.
By “prepared me for it”, do you mean my experience of being an undergrad and working for with someone who later made actual news in my little corner of the universe once his serial sexual harassment and casual acceptance of sexism among his male subordinates became known? Because in that way, yep, totally prepared me.
If you mean did anyone actually talk about it in a constructive way, see the threads of hysterical laughter above.
Anon
This exactly.
Anonymous
+1
Anonymous
What sexism in the workplace? Like others, I laughed out loud when I read the title of this post! My universities did not acknowledge that there even was sexism, much less prepare me for it.
Ribena
Did my *university* prepare me? No.
Did my university *experience* prepare me? Sure.
shortperson
my law school (class of 2010) held one panel on finding balance and happiness in practicing law. the room was full of women other than one very nice mormon man. the conclusion the panelists came to was that the only women who are happy practicing law are those who work in public interest and have a spouse who earns $$$$$. that actually set my expectations well for legal practice.
Slogging through a career as a woman professional
Favorite thread ever!
Could we post over favorite lines from our careers? Mine, performance review, attorney: You are not making the men feel comfortable. You should laugh more and touch the male lawyer’s arms, like Claire does.
Anonymous
I mean, I went to an undergrad full of the kids of wall street bros, so in a way, yes. My college experience was pretty much exactly like my first couple years in the workforce. Conferences were the same as late night at the frats.