Coffee Break: Don’t Despair, Repair!™ Deep Conditioning Hair Mask

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1. A genuinely laugh out loud funny quote from Trump’s appearance today on Fox and Friends – speaking about Biden/Harris: “They don’t like oil, guns or religion. Other than that, they’re wonderful. … George Washington couldn’t win Texas with that platform.” ?

   https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook-pm/2020/08/17/new-whats-in-democrats-new-usps-bill-490098

   1. That’s hilarious.

2. I know that if you are female and go straight through from undergrad, med school and residence coincide with the years when people are likely to have babies if they are ready for that in their lives. I know two women who had kids in med school / residence, and the kids were generally raised with substantial grandparental assistance on both sides, even to the point of being where residencies were done and even with working husbands in semi-flexible jobs. It seems . . . so grueling. And yet now that my friends are doctors, they are saying that even though their loans are onerous, they can demand and get part-time or flexible hours (one ped had every Friday off, no call; one just works 3 days a week), especially if you are in primarily care. Is there a way to test in advance whether you are cut from this very tough cloth? Or is it like the only way out is through and you just tough it out? I know one friend’s maternity leave was beyond BigLaw staff token leave — just something like 6 or 8 weeks (like this would terrify me to be a patient if that person had been a brain surgeon).

   1. Weird hypo but okay. If you want to be a doctor you make it work. Obviously your friends did.

   2. It’s not weird, I don’t know what is wrong with people who have to insult you before answering your question.

      My SIL is a doctor and barely got any maternity leave during residency and then didn’t get any vacation or sick days the rest of the year. Pumping was also super hard. It was all brutal but now she has a cush schedule and this big law mom is jealous.

   3. I’m not a doctor, but my best friend since childhood is, and honestly, it’s not something I’d recommend unless you really want to be a doctor. It is absolutely grueling through medical school, residency, and oh, don’t forget fellowships for many specialties. Add in the loans and the proportionally low pay for the amount of work and debt you’re expected to take on throughout residency/fellowships, and you’re not making substantial money (proportional to the loans – no where near BigLaw) until you’re in your mid 30s.
      Also – not all doctors are making buckets of money. Sure, they’re earning a good living, but when you consider the loans they had to take out to get there, it’s a lot less money. Additionally, many of those “cushy” specialties are either wildly competitive to get into (Derm, for example) or pay terribly (Pediatrics). Oh, and while they *can* go part time, they’re definitely penalized for it professionally – less advancement opportunities, just like you see in law or many other professions.
      If you want a job in healthcare with a good mixture of pay/benefits/lifestyle/less loans, I’d look at mid-level practice roles – NPs, PAs. Or pharmacy. All three of those garner 6 figure salaries, have set hours, and require way less school (and debt).

      1. A friend of mine is a dermatalogical PA and she makes a ton of money and sets her own hours.

         1. The point made above was that Derm is extremely competitive, so this would make sense. It’s not that it isn’t a great position, it’s that many people can’t achieve it.

         2. Yep – and PA programs vs medical school are extremely different processes. I think if someone were looking for good money, for less schooling, with future flexibility, I’d absolutely advocate NP or PA programs over medical school.

   4. The blogger Franish had a baby during some point of med school or residency. I don’ t know if she posted much on her blog, but there may be more info on her Instagram.

   5. There’s a lot to unpack there so I’m going to let someone else do it.

      I will, however, offer this: in many ways, parenthood is the hardest thing you will ever do. However, the way to figure out how hard it is for people (presuming healthy children, healthy family) is to look at what other hard things that person has done. If the second hardest thing they’ve ever done is walk a 5K or work at the college library while taking 12 credit hours, the demands of parenthood will be a shock. For people used to operating at a very high level while maintaining friendships, family relationships, and other interests, parenthood is an adjustment. It is difficult. It is challenging. But it isn’t The Hardest Thing Ever.

      I think that people who are used to making those adjustments and balances in their lives are more equipped to do it. For some, it might mean being a family doctor instead of an ER surgeon, or in-house counsel instead of a BigLaw associate but, let’s all take a giant step back here, we’re still talking about different breeds of physician or attorney.

      Again, I exclude from this discussion parents of special-needs children or parents in tough situations (widows, single parents, poor parents).

   6. There’s a reason why a lot of doctors are the kids of doctors. That said, there’s also a reason why a lot of kids of doctors are dentists, or optometrists!

   7. IDK how you’d really test it out for real until you got there. But all I’ll say is think about what it is you think you’d want to do in medicine. Things like surgery, cardiology etc. are notoriously high stress/long hour your whole career (and thus also male dominated with the few women in those fields not having kids or having a huge support structure of stay home dads/grandparents/paid nannies) — so it’s not just about maternity leave as a resident or fellow but also about how much you’re around when the child is 10 or 15. Sure with things like cardiology people do go private practice and that can be a cushy life with $$$ and relatively set hours, but many people don’t want to do that because they want the more challenging caseload that comes in university/academic practices. There’s a reason that pediatrics and the like is FILLED with women who work 3 days a week or demand part time or whatever; in those female dominated specialties you can make those demands — and you’re also much lower paid, your career is hurt professionally etc. You certainly cannot go into cardiology and make it clear to people that you’re a mom first and getting to the christmas play means you’re not seeing patients this Friday — the male dominated, higher stress but higher pay specialties won’t make allowances for that. So while you can’t test drive something until you’re there, you can think about and talk to drs. about what you want to do and what kind of life you want at work and outside work and see if medicine fits for you.

   8. What exactly are you trying to test in advance? Being a doctor in general? Maybe. My SIL worked in a clinic in a foreign country between college and medical school, and it confirmed for her that she wanted to be a doctor. Contrast that with a friend of mine went to a 7-year med school program straight from high school. She dropped out of medical school during her third year because she had anxiety attacks every morning before rotations. Some experience in a clinic or hospital probably would have helped. Of course, connections and financial resources are immensely helpful to getting that type of experience.

      Is there a way to test whether you are cut out for being a doctor and a (biological?) parent? Probably not, except that you really want to be both. My SIL got pregnant during her first year of residency, which is internship year. She worked on her feet and crazy hours (like night shifts for 3 weeks, day shifts the next 3 weeks) throughout her pregnancy. She had a 3 week “maternity leave,” which just means she had 3 of her 4 weeks of annual vacation timed for after the birth. I have no idea what would have happened if her pregnancy had been complicated or if she’d given birth early (statistically common for medical residents). There’s a minimum number of hours you have to complete, individual programs have discretion over how they schedule those hours, and if you don’t meet them, you have to repeat the entire year of training. Since my niece’s birth, BIL has been the primary parent, and they’ve received a lot of help from both sets of grandparents and even some help from my husband and me. My niece is a beautiful little girl with an extremely good temperament and a lot of love for a lot of relatives. SIL is doing her fellowship this year, and she’s in a specialty that isn’t too crazy in terms of raising a family.

      It’s common for all doctors to work 4-4.5 days per week. It used to be justified by call, but I see full-time physician contracts for 4-4.5 days and no call all the time. They tend to be long days though (8-5 seeing patients, plus staying later to complete records).

   9. My BFF is a doctor, a surgeon actually. She’s 35 and pregnant for the first time. She took one year off before med school when we were 22-23. She said that today she’d go the PA route 100% without question. Good PAs are life lines for doctors, and a good doctor/practice will compensate you accordingly. She said that if she did that she’d basically have 9-10 years of experience already under her belt (2 years of school vs like 10 for surgery). She loves what she does but it’s not worth the debt first and foremost, and then add the inflexibility she has as the junior surgeon on the totem pole. It’s not lost on her that she’s having baby #1 in her first year at her “first real job” as she calls it having just finished up her —err…. I don’t know the lingo… a one year stint after residency at some far away specialty location — and will have to take mat leave, and likely a short one.

      In her defense, PAs weren’t really as widely accepted growing up and she felt a lot of pressure from the family to be The Doctor of the family. I like to think our generation in the friend group is a little more practical and will guide our children to also consider cost-benefit/return on cost analysis when choosing a path. Easier said than done, I’m sure.

   10. I AM a doctor. I went back to medical school 6 years after undergrad, single with no kids. I met and married my wife while in training (pro tip, don’t get married your intern year). We are both doctors, she is an MD/PhD so even though she and I started medical school together, I am 3years ahead in training. I started trying to get pregnant my 3rd year of residency at the age of 35. It took me 3 years of infertility while I was a fellow to get pregnant. I am now 8mos preggo with the munchkin and in my first year of Academic Attending. When I was a resident and fellow, I would have had 3-4 weeks of paid parental leave and my wife would have had… 2 weeks? (Now I have zero, but that’s a separate story) Who would have cared for our baby? We live far from grandparents and needed to have enough money to pay for a nanny (no daycare has the flexibility for 2 doctors in training), which meant that we needed to wait until both of us were making the roughly $60k you make in training.

       Here is the advice I give EVERYONE thinking about medical school and becoming a doctor: Is there anything else you can imagine being happy doing? If so, do that thing.

       Medicine takes so much out of you (emotional, mental, physical, spiritual) that if you can think of something else you would be happy doing, the thought of that other thing will eat away at you in the early hours of the morning when you have been up for 20hrs and need to get through 8 more. HOWEVER, if you can’t think of that other thing, medicine and being a physician has been the best, most rewarding thing I have ever done. I love my job. I never thought it would require as much of me as it has, but it gives so much every day.

       How will you know if you are tough enough? You won’t. You’ll just keep doing the next thing, you’ll keep learning and caring for your patients, and living your life. I hear this is much like parenthood.

       1. Also a doc and parent and I approve this message.

          (Really nicely written, Anon at 3:58–I feel the same, though I couldn’t have stated it as well.)

   11. I think this varies a lot but based on my friends who are doctors the one thing I have noticed is that the hours though maybe not less intense than in law are often much more predictable. Also, because you often start early, you will often be home earlier, which is hard to do in the legal field because most lawyers prefer late nights and expect others to be similarly available.

       I would also say that I very much disagree with the notion to that being an NP or a PA is less grueling with similar compensation. The compensation tends to be significantly less (although yes you tend to take on less debt because it takes less time) and most of the ones I know are often frustrated with the hierarchy/pecking order with doctors. I think it’s a good path for some people, esp. if you’re making the career choice later in life, and if you aren’t especially passionate about medicine generally but the doctors I know would never ever consider being anything else.

       1. I know one female doctor who is an ER doctor (her brother was an army doctor, so she has the relaxing job b/c no bombs go off during her shift).

          The rest are all pediatricians, baby doctors, or OBs. Is that typical? I am a lawyer and in a numbers-driven field where I am often one of few women, but it’s not like all of my other friends went into family law. They are litigators or employement lawyers, or tax or erisa or bankruptcy or whatever. It runs the gamut more than my doctor friends.

   12. There are other jobs besides doctor and BigLaw lawyer. Jobs where you can have the standard maternity leave, not have to work overnights and not have a ton of loans. Unless you really want to be a doctor, I think going through all that training and rough schedules seems awful. Clearly people do it. But most people don’t and aren’t perfectly fine working “average” jobs, having a family and yes, making a lot less than docs. Not sure if that answered your question.

       1. It is interesting. I would trade a lot now to have a job when I am working at work, and then NOT working. In law, every hour you aren’t in a coma is an hour you are technically on-call. I dream of being my friend, who is a nurse anesthesist, which I never knew existed until 10ish years ago, who works a lot, but his days off are OFF and predicatable and he is able to travel. His bad days at work are no doubt worse than mine, but he is the happiest person I know and if I could see how jobs would turn out, would absolutely do his job and trade in mine. I’d take a big pay cut for a fixed schedule that was predictable.

          1. Nurse anesthetists (CRNAs) make $200,000 on average, some substantially more. They have $100,000 in tuition for three years to get through the CRNA program but then are in demand enough that most find good practices where they get a nice combo of time off and big money. Work 3 days a week if you want to as a parent, work 5 days plus overtime if you want to make $400,000.

             My son is a first year resident in a specialty that will get him $300,000 to $400,000 in salary, but that won’t be for 5-6 years with his residency and fellowship.

             My daughter is an RN, applying to CRNA programs now after 4 years as an RN. To get into CRNA school you need at least 1 and perhaps 2-3 years of high level ICU or trauma ER experience as an RN and she has 3 years at a level 1 trauma ER and 1+ year in an ICU. So she’s going to graduate from CRNA school with about 1/3 of the debt that my son will have and she’s worked at a relatively lucrative job to get her four year’s of experience. Even new-ish RNs get $100,000/yr before overtime in big cities like Seattle, Portland and LA.

             Nurse practitioners in some cases (like psych nurse practitioner) can also earn $200,000 – I know one who makes $300,000.

             Some specialties – that are family friendly like Ped, Family med and general practitioner – only pay $125,000 a year. Unless you can go through med school on a scholarship or with it paid by parents, the ROI for MD/DO school sucks compared to the ROI for CRNA or some NPs.

             My eye surgeon said a variation of the current advice, which is to only go to medical school if you can’t see yourself doing anything else and only if you want to be a surgeon. Otherwise, PA, NP or CRNA.

   13. I recommend watching some of the day in the life videos of Mama Doctor Jones on Youtube. She works “part time” and it still well over 40 hours most weeks.

   14. My two cents:

       I am a big law associate, DH is a surgeon. We graduated college at the same time and both went to law and med school. In the years since, I finished law school and paid back all of my law school loans. I’m well into my “real” career. He is still in residency in a high in demand, competitive surgical specialty, making a pittance compared to me and compared to the market value of his work. He has two years to go until he is in his “real” career, which will be 11 years after he graduated college (four of med school plus six for residency and one for fellowship). And he took no time off or extra research time.

       I’m in big law and work all the fucking time. Loathe to say it, but he works harder than me and more hours. His hours are more predictable, sure, which I envy, but there are more of them and his extra to do list for work is always much longer than mine.

       I don’t think he could be happy doing anything else. He loves what he does to a higher extent than I do. He chose to go into this field knowing it would be a slog, and it truly is; avoid if you can, but if you can’t imagine doing anything else, there are (hopefully, eventually) rewards beyond the love of what you do.

   15. I can say as a patient that it drives me crazy that about 80% of the female doctors at the clinic I used to use worked part time. I do prefer having a female doc, but good luck getting an appointment when your GP only works 3 days a week. I finally left and went somewhere else (to a female doc who works full time).

3. What are your favorite decorating blogs? Specifically for city apartments, if possible. I have a very hard time finding anything useful. Stuff that’s meant for a house presumes space I don’t have. Stuff that’s focused on micro studios/apts and the like is a little bit too constrained for what I do have. I just want some inspiration for my 2 bed 2 bath post-war NYC apartment. I.e., how to make something fairly basic and architecturally uninspired feel a bit nicer. I’ve taken to looking at neighborhood real estate listings for inspo but it’s not very productive and just makes me realize that many of my neighbors have pretty mediocre to bad taste :) Someone recommended a Westchester decorator blog on Friday and that was actually great for looking at concrete examples, but I’d like to find something more geared to my actual space than the grand house I have no plans to own.

   1. I feel like the Ikea website is excellent for this, as it is geared for visual impact, minimal $, and renters in small spaces. I get stabby when looking at decorators’ sites — I don’t have 100′ of shoreline for you to put in a lannai next to the dock. I don’t want to hear about wallpapers that cost 100s for a few square feet. I’d like you to plant a money tree in my scrap of sun in the yard so I can have spendy things.

      1. Ooh, good idea!

   2. Have you checked out Apartment Therapy? I don’t find it super user-friendly but… the name speaks for itself.

      1. +1 I find a lot of their content to be incredibly obnoxious, but the apartment tours and before & afters are probably good for this purpose.

      2. +1 to their apartment tours!

         1. Thanks. I do check there but a) a lot of it quirky bungalows which while charming don’t have the same issues as I have, and b) it’s often a bit more DYI than I am capable of. Like, it’s great that this bathroom cost $200 but I dont know how to sand down cabinets and do my own wiring.

            1. But surely if you’re just looking for decorating ideas, you can take inspiration from something that’s not the exact same size and shape as your home?

            2. Of course! My specific question was inspired by someone’s shout out to a Westchester decorator blog & webs*te which had a very lovely but specific aesthetic. It occurred to me that there must be similar blogs and webs*tes for urban dwellers. Certainly NYC isn’t short on decorators and they can’t all only work on fancy penthouses and brownstones, right? So I guess my more specifically articulated question is does anyone know of some goods ones :)

      3. I find Apartment Therapy depressing. All the apartments are gross and cluttered.

         1. Just like their website!

   3. I like pinterest for this. I can target for spaces/needs I have (i.e. small bedroom, entryway storage, shelving designs for tight spaces). I live in a one bedroom with my spouse and there’s no more room to put anything, so when we make changes they really need to take our tight spaces into consideration.

      1. +1 I get most of my decorating ideas from Pinterest these days.

      2. I have a Pinterest board for interiors that I add to any time I see something I like, even if it’s impossible with the space I have. It’s helped me realize that I have a very clear aesthetic that helps me figure out what I want things to look like.
         My aesthetic is lots of pink, grey, white and light wood with pops of bright colors.

         1. I may have to reset my Pinterest password.

            I did use it when we were redoing our kitchen, but I find it a bit overwhelming at times and I am also not wild about the Pinterest aesthetic that sometimes takes over. Like I wish I could screen for word art, all gray with mirrors and gilding decor, barn doors, etc.

            Maybe it’s an impossible dream but I just want to see before and afters of nice but normal city apartments in a Room & Board meets cool, well traveled Anthropology professor with a grandma who left him/her some cool old stuff aesthetic.

            1. The more you use it, the more it tailors to what you like. I very rarely see the barn door aesthetic anymore. But at first I really had to be intentional in my searches to nail down what I wanted.

            2. Damn, AIMS, that’s exactly the look I’m going for too! Lets be friends, lol

            3. Yeah, I’ve posted about my house before. It’s a big old craftsman. I will not be tearing down any walls to make it open concept. I will not be painting the original wainscoting white.

               There’s no help for me online. There really is no diversity of look or style. It’s like the current look, whatever it is, bullies all the historical styles out of the way.

            4. Anon at 4:51, there are huge old house communities online! Subscribe to Old House Journal (not This Old House), check out artsandcraftshomes.com, search IG for relevant hashtags (#craftsmanhome, #craftsmanbungalow, etc). There are great resources out there!

            5. @ Anon @4:49 – we should def share our Pinterest boards!

   4. Emily Henderson’s young staffers have been doing a lot of posts on her blog about their homes. Some are apartments, some are houses, but they’re all pretty cute, small, and done on a budget.

      1. This is great, thanks!

4. Timely post — please help me solve my pandemic hair mystery! Pre-pandemic, I had glossy, soft hair which I blow-dried several time per week, and had single-process coloring done every eight weeks or so. Now, during pandemic, I have not blow dried or colored my hair since March — and my hair is dry as sticks! It’s *horrible* — but this makes no sense to me, because I haven’t done anything which could be causing damage. Does anyone have any ideas about what is happening??

   1. Have you had a haircut since March? Maybe it’s split ends and more old, brittle hair at the ends?

      1. Also, did you get a glaze with that single process? If I go without a glaze after my single process, my hair is unruly after a few weeks.

         I’ve tried the Briegeo deep conditioner and it’s no where near as good as Davine’s. If anyone is in the market, I highly suggest this one:

         https://us.davines.com/products/nourishing-vegetarian-miracle

   2. Stress? You can see the effects months later.

   3. Are you washing your hair with different water – like hard water? Did you wash your hair a lot at the gym before or something?

   4. Maybe you were using products with the blow dry that helped your hair?

   5. My husband colors his hair and says it starts to feel like straw right about when it’s time to color it again. I think it’s that the color opens up the hair shaft, but the color fills in those area. As the color fades, the hair strands feel jagged. And then putting on new color fills them in again.

5. Is it just me?

   I thought that this book would be the friendly-written book that shored up the Sussex side of things and made them seem all put-upon and reasonable. And yet all of the excerpts I’ve read (can’t stop reading them; book at library has a long list to read the whole thing), are really sort of confirming that they (maybe Harry) are entitled. And the whole thing about Meghan being so disappointed that Kate didn’t turn out to be more of a BFF seems to be reprinted a bit too much (without mentioning that Kate was already a parent of 2 with HG while being pregnant with kid 3; then a parent of 3 young kids largely in the post-partum year while all of this is unfolding, which seems like a lot to expect). I was waiting for the smoking gun and I am left with thinking that if this is their spin, the reality is probably worse.

   1. I wouldn’t necessarily think that the truth is worse, but it may very well be less dramatic and exciting than all that it’s fluffed up to be. At the end of the day, they are just people.

   2. As an American divorcee, I really think the British royals should…stay away from American divorcees. Forever. #notameghanfan

      1. Huh? As an American divorcee, what’s wrong with American divorcees, for the Royal Family or anyone else? Like her or don’t (though I genuinely don’t understand why people don’t), but I am genuinely confused about what her being divorced has to do with this.

         1. Cuz, you know, Wallis.

            1. They were Nazi sympathizers, so just bad all-around even if chic. But I think that was more him than her? Honestly, can you imagine England today had he stayed on?! No thank you. Glad Wallis got him out of the way.

            2. Sure. But being a Nazi sympathizer is also unrelated to being divorced.

            3. I hate to be all hashtag not all men, but not all American divorcees are nazi sympathizers!

   3. haven’t read it, but my general principle on Harry and Meghan is that if every one of your relationships is filled with angst and drama, the common denominator is… you.

      1. Truth!

         Today, People or someplace not the Daily Mail had a piece show up on my phones news feed that Meghan had had her hair person flown in from Paris and demanded the Queen’s emerald tiara to practice doing hair on, was told no, and Harry blew up. Um, is Harry 2? Who demands tiaras (I think that for the Oscars, there is at minimum an insurance contract to be written up with ever a $$$ piece of jewelry gets brought out of a vault and moved around)? Can you not practice with something from Claire’s Boutique?

         Like if this is a rousing defense helped out by friends, I wonder what a true hater would say.

         1. This sounds like the plot of Ocean’s 9. Count me in!

      2. Have Harrys previous relationships been filled with angst and drama? I’m not up to date

         1. His relationships with his family now seem to be like that. At least one ex-GF was at his wedding, so perhaps not that sort of relationship. Meghan’s family situation is . . . perhaps a trainwreck anyway, magnified under the spotlight. I mean, I have cousins who’d show up to Westminster Abbey or St. Paul’s or whereever chewing gum and wearing Real Tree and a mullet, but they wouldn’t deliberately cause drama. They are who they are, especially if it likely that they’ll stay sober during the reception b/c they may hunt afterwards.

            But he’s never held a real job and comes off as a brat. He seemed to better when he was in the military and maybe could appreciate actual hardships from “get Meghan the g-d tiara” hardships.

            1. How is being in the military for years, including serving in Afghanistan, not a real job? Wow.

               I can take or leave Harry and Meghan. But the people (mostly women, I believe) who spend time attacking them online seem like some of the saddest, most jealous and pathetic people ever. There is something about Meghan that really triggers them. Whether it’s her race, I don’t know, but it’s pathetic.

            2. Uh, I feel like you can side-eye him all you want, but the military is most definitely a real job and from all accounts he really did that job (at least until the press outed him as a member of a combat unit and he had to leave to protect his colleagues).

            3. I think that the military is a real job and also a very surreal job, in that you have bonds with people in a way that just is thinner in civilian life. And in civilian life, Harry doesn’t have much of a role. His prior civilian job, “the spare,” isn’t really a job at all and once William had children, Harry was . . . what, exactly? IMO, he probably was well-served by the structure of the military given that he’d never have a real life and purpose like we have as commoners in the US. I think he would have done well to stay in in some capacity even as a reserves officer but that is probably off the table forever now, which is bad for him. Not a lot of good options left IMO.

      3. ding ding ding. Good life rule, as well.

   4. Ok I’ll bite. I think they each had unrealistic expectations that were exacerbated by circumstance. Unless you start out inherently sympathetic to that, it’s hard to imagine anything so compelling as to change your mind (not implying that you must dislike them as a result, just that the whole thing is a bit ‘well, duh…’ and I don’t know what anyone could say to change that).

      I think they were both unprepared for the level of racism and classism (if that’s the word?) that Meghan would face; I think Meghan was unprepared for the British tabloids and assumed that because she was a somewhat famous actress she could definitely handle it, and I think that Harry’s reactions to it all are and were clearly and understandably colored by what happened to his mother (as he has said in his official statements). I also think that the baby changed everything as it often does and I think that if they were younger when they met and didn’t feel the pressure to have a kid so quickly as a result of their age this could might have been a bit easier for them. The press attention would have mellowed.

      But good for them for living their own lives.

      On this note, the NYT had a good op-ed about the whole drama this weekend.

      1. +100 I think they assumed that because Meghan was somewhat famous that they would be able to deal with the press no problem. I also think most readers here are American and really don’t understand how truly awful the British tabloids are, likely truly truly awful and not comparable to anything we have in the US. Kate was basically groomed for the job by her parents since she was a child and still waited almost 10 years before agreeing to formally sign up for it. Add in the racism and I don’t blame her for wanting to GTFO

         I think there’s also an element that Harry expected his family to protect Meghan more than they did and perhaps that was an unrealistic expectation but not an unfair thing to wonder about. Also, it’s pretty clear that Charles’ expectation is that his siblings will be totally sidelined when he takes over. It’s reasonable for Harry to assume he’ll end up with the same fate, why live with the mess of it all when you know that’s the ending. May as well get away from it all now.

         1. Kate also ate sh*t during those ten years. Waity Katie? But she knew what she was signing up for. I think that makes all the difference.

            1. She also seems to just publicly ignore the tabloids (with the nude photo, which makes sense). Which IMO is the only course to take. You lose by acknowledging the stories, and that would seem to be like blood in the water. Never complain, never explain.

            2. While Kate has had some bad press, the press there had a no-holds-barred approach to Meghan. I think it was a combo of anti-American (divorcee), racism, and Will being the future king and Harry being the “spare”.
               The press felt that they could treat Harry and Meghan as bad as they wanted with no repercussions.

               This is an awesome illustration of the issues.

               https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal

      2. I like what you’ve said here, especially about baby. I mean, think about it – they had an absolutely whirlwind 18 months from engagement to first anniversary, and they barely let the dust settle before deciding this life wasn’t right for them. They may have been right, but I would have given it a few more months, minimum, before completely bailing.

         1. + 1, they bailed too early instead of staying and working through the problems.

            1. I read somewhere that Harry actually not only reads the stories about him, but he reads the comments in the stories about him. That is so, so, so unwise! But in the U.S., the press is actually worse (our privacy rights are different that England’s). But people have no attention span. Just ignore and go on about your life as a rich person. If he’s still doing it, his life will be miserable in perpetuity.

            2. Oof hard disagree on the press point. The UK tabloids publish things way meaner than the US ones. Although I agree part of the difference is there are so many US stories that it also feels less concentrated.

   5. I work in PR and am truly, truly baffled by this book. It clearly came from them, whether directly or through friends they authorized to speak with the authors, and it paints them in SUCH a bad light. It basically confirms all the unflattering tabloid stories about them! And the negativity about Kate is astounding. She had two and then three young kids, was dealing with serious family issues (her brother’s depression) and has a busy job as the future Queen. I mean, sure, I guess it would have been nice if she had decided to become BFFs with Meghan, but it’s hardly a crime that she didn’t. The anti-Kate stuff strikes me as really misogynistic – since the feud is ultimately between the brothers why is all the blame being laid at Kate’s feet? Ugh. This book. It blew my mind, in a bad way.

      1. Ok, now I have to get the book. Damn. I wasn’t even that interested in all of this before.

         1. Same! I’ve sort of had a bad feeling about the whole Harry and Meghan situation but could never really articulate why, but this sort of confirms that they are all about the drama. Or at least one of them is.

            1. IDK if they are all about the drama, but they are certainly people of staggeringly bad judgment. They cannot stop digging once they are deep in a hole. IDK if they get bad advice or won’t take good advice or just think that they know it all (like maybe Meghan being an actress made her overconfident re her image and ability to manage it; Harry seems to never have cared to manage it (Nazi costume, etc.)). But I think of the saying “better to shut up and have everyone wonder if you are a fool than open your mouth and confirm it.” They are truly and completely confirming it — I don’t think that this book could have been written without their approval, connecting friends up with the authors, etc.

      2. This. I previously thought that all bad press likely came from the Yorks. Now, I am not so sure. I am 100% sure that throwing Kate under the bus was not a good move. I wish I had better relationships with my sisters’ in law, but never once have I even thought twice about people who are merely married to my BIL/SILs. They are people I’m happy to get along with the few times a year I see them and I wouldn’t expect anyone with a bunch of small kids and an infant to drop everything for me. That’s just not realistic. To commit it to print just looks so petty (and since they sue people like the DM, I don’t doubt they would have raised a fuss if they hadn’t been OK with this book going forward).

      3. I am an American who has spent time in the UK and found it a chilly place socially. Having one of those chilly gals in my family would have been challenging.

         1. Hmm. I’m not terribly close to my SILs and most women I know aren’t either. I get that there are cultural differences but I think Meghan’s friendship expectations were way too high. You owe your in-laws respect and politeness, you don’t owe them a close friendship, particularly right off the bat (many of the alleged slights happened when Meghan was still Harry’s new girlfriend, not his fiancée or wife). I haven’t read the book but everything I’ve about it makes me think Meghan and Harry were jealous of Will and Kate’s higher standing and expected to be treated as their equals which even as an American I know is not realistic at all. W&K are the future king and queen, things are just totally different for them. I’m American but none of the anecdotes I’ve read so far make me think Kate is “chilly.” They make Meghan (and Harry) seem extremely high maintenance and entitled.

            1. I have two kids and never had HG (but had them in BigLaw). If my BIL’s GF thought I’d drop everything just to pall around, I’d like to buy her a clue. Even a new SIL of my BIL is just a person in the years when I was too busy to see my own friends or do my own hobbies. And she had HG with each pregnancy, so it’s not like she was going to do anything but throw up or feel like she needed to be near a bathroom. Even without GH, I was peeing every 15 minutes by the end. It just reads as so clueless and it’s not like after Meghan had a kid she was all “oh, I get it now; it’s not all about me.”

            2. It is funny how judgmental we all get of them though!

               I really don’t know that it’s entitled so much as naive. I have so many friends like this. They all get hurt that their new in laws don’t automatically treat them like family, or might be suspicious of their motives, or that no one comes to clean their house or cook for them when they have a baby because that’s ‘what they would do’, and I know they genuinely mean well – they want to be BFFs with all their sisters in law etc. It is just not how it works for most people, most of the time. That’s true for work friends and over sharing and it’s true in most intrafamily situations, too, never mind the pressure of the monarchy. I honestly think I have a great relationship with more people simply because I don’t expect them to welcome me with complete open arms or support me in anything and everything. Be polite. Don’t be hostile. Assume good intentions. You really can’t ask for more.

            3. I wasn’t judging them until they published the book! If they’re oversensitive and want to get offended about the perceived snub, that’s their business. I was supportive of them leaving the monarchy and having a quieter life in the US if that’s what they want. But I think it was ridiculous to write this book trashing Kate. Kate is not to blame and even if she were it comes off so incredibly petty.

      4. Duchess DooLittle with the “busy job as the future Queen”??? That’s funny. Kate has some of the worst numbers when it comes to the number of public engagements she does.

   6. I was never a big fan of them, but was willing to give them a pass…until she stood in Africa and complained about how awful her life was. Nope Nope Nope. Bad judgement, huge amount of entitlement on their part, and everything I’ve read about this book seems to confirm this.

   7. I read the book and I came away from it thinking that both Meghan and Harry have terrible judgement and don’t understand just who butters their biscuit. Upsetting Will and Kate, when at some point in the future Will and Kate will be financially supporting them, just shows these two are not only drama llamas, but stupid drama llamas.

6. Yet another pandemic question — would you hesitate to get a couch delivered by a furniture co. this fall? My couch REALLY needs to go and is super worn out esp given how much use its gotten since May. I figured I could get one delivered in the next few weeks while things are still relatively “good” in DC. Yet as I started looking (online with a few phone calls) I am finding that most places whether furniture stores or retailers like Macys are say 8 weeks or so for a sofa — because it seems like it is put together AFTER you place the order, it’s not just sitting in a warehouse ready to go. I’m sure there are some that are ready to go but I have constraints on what I can buy because I’m in an apartment and it needs to be smaller than what you get in an avg single family home, plus given that I buy furniture rarely I’d want to get something I wanted not just grab anything that can be delivered next week whether I like it or not.

   I can obviously let this go and deal with it post pandemic, but part of me is like — would it really be a big deal to order now, it’s ready in say Oct-Nov for 5-10 min to put it in my living room? Assuming they’d be masked and I would be too, I’d open the windows for air flow etc. It’s been 15 years since I bought a sofa so I don’t remember how long delivery takes but I wouldn’t assume it’d take that long? Though I guess it could if every cushion is wrapped and they stand around unwrapping all of that. What do you think? Would you do it or no? Higher risk, have really lived for 5 mos with like 1 trip to a grocery store every 3 weeks (otherwise home ALL the time), but as this goes on longer and longer I feel like I’m going to have to start doing things that need to be done.

   1. Do it!!

   2. I would order. Assembly for a sofa is usually things like positioning it in the room, unwrapping the shrinkwrap, and perhaps screwing on legs or feet. It’s not Ikea-level assembly. You could always unwrap it yourself.

   3. I would not hesitate. I’d want them to have masks on in my house, but wouldn’t hesitate for a minute.

   4. Delivery won’t even take 15 minutes. They’ll bring it up to your apartment, you’ll sign for it, and they’ll leave. Do not worry.
      FWIW I moved last month and had movers in and out of my apartment for about 4 hours. They masked up by my request and I tried to stay at least 6 feet away the whole time. And it was fine!

   5. Yes, I would do it. Like you said, make sure the movers are masked and you open windows for ventilation. You could even go outside while they are working inside and tell them to call you if they need anything/when they’re done.

   6. I would do it. Putting in a plug for room and board, though! I’ve been thrilled with my sleeper sofa from them. And their delivery people are amazing.

   7. Omg no you arent getting Covid from this.

      1. Yeah, this.

      2. There is no need to be rude.

   8. I would totally do it and good grief it would really be a nice boost in these trying times!

   9. We have been ordering bits and pieces of furniture, including an office chair, and it’s NBD. The movers are in and out really quickly and then we just let the item sit in its packaging for a few days and then unwrap it.

   10. Not something to worry about!
       I have no idea how people have made it all this time without having had to have someone in the home to fix something, or someone in to deliver something. But if that’s you, more power to you. In this case, if you are really worrying-before you let them in, make sure they are all masked. Before they come in, clear the exact spot where you want it to go. You could tape out the exact place on the floor, and tape arrows to direct them there from the door. You could say- I’m not comfortable sharing space so I’ll be in another room while you’re working. And just go in your bedroom and close the door while they maneuver it.

       But 100% confirming that a couple of masked movers in your house for less than 20 min are not a good COVID vector!

   11. In the DC suburbs, a colleague of mine had her kitchen remodeled in March-April. Everyone is fine.

   12. We got a couch delivered from crate and barrel in late June/early July. We are in the NY metro area. They came masked. We were masked. It all happened very quickly since they unpacked the couch outside—I recommend this! We also purposely ordered a style and color that was available for immediate delivery because our couch wasn’t cutting it. Good luck!

7. Consider that delivery times can be wacky these days. I wouldn’t order from Macy’s (or proceed with caution) as I saw tons of complaints about furniture on its Facebook page maybe 2 yrs back when I was shopping.

   I’d say maybe, depends on how bad the sofa is. Is it completely unusable? Can you try some hacks like putting cardboard under the cushions for more support?

   **Can you order it just a few months later for spring delivery?**

   1. OP here – I wouldn’t actually buy from Macy’s. I am a furniture snob (American made, custom made blah blah) but that obviously takes time. So I called the places I usually like and asked and they said 6-8 weeks but they’re telling people to plan for more like 8-10 because who knows if x factory in North Carolina has to shut down for two weeks in Oct or something. So then I thought ok just look at a Macys type place which may have something you can buy today and have delivered in 2 weeks; to my surprise Macys and a bunch of other furniture stores (Raymor etc.) are ALSO saying 6-8 weeks; then I got to the bottom of it though that couches for the most part are NOT made in huge numbers and stored in part because you have to pick fabrics, in part because they’ll get dirty if not stored perfectly wrapped, climate controlled etc. so most places place an order for you and then manufacturing starts. Given that I figured, let me get what I really want if I’ll be waiting 2 months anyway.

      No this isn’t URGENT. I don’t HAVE to order now and then worry about whether I want delivery folks coming in in the fall. I could order in January and have it come in March. But IDK it’d be nice to have something nice given how much I’m home. Glad to know from others though that couch delivery doesn’t take forever. I feel like if I did it I could even unlock the door, go into my bedroom or sun room which have sight lines into the living room and watch/instruct from there as they unwrap, install the feet etc. so that we really aren’t breathing on top of each other.

      1. They will probably be happy not to have you on top of them too. It’s not like delivery people are excited about potentially getting covid either.

   2. I love my Macys sofas and dining room table, and the prices can’t be beat. One of my items had a delivery hiccup (wrong hardware was sent so they had to come back a week later), and when they called to reschedule I complained mildly and they took $50 off the price without me even asking.

   3. I actually love Macy’s couches. I’ve had four of them in the past six years (only because I moved cross country and didn’t bring them, not because they fell apart). The Radford line is the bees knees interms of durability, ease of ordering, wide color selection, not having those weird microfiber marks, and tons of different configurations. I have a four piece sectional and a normal three seater couch. I’ve owed the queen sofabed too. They hold up to serious wear-and-tear, including my dog sitting on the top, cushion covers are washable, and…holy grail…they come down to the floor so my dog can’t constantly push her ball under and whine until I lift the couch up. Seriously–I cannot recommend Macy’s Radford couches enough.

8. I just read the thread from this morning from the poster who used to think of his parents and sister as family, and also his wife and child as family, as if they’re all on equal footing. His revelation was now that he is married with a kid, wife+kid are his immediate nuclear family, and his sister and parents are his extended family.

   My husband’s sisters think the old way. His brother was having trouble with his job and marriage, and he took a break to “reconnect with his family.” His sisters were delighted to hear that, and then disappointed and angry when they found out he meant reconnecting with his wife and kids. They really thought he would return to spend time in the town they grew up in connecting with his sisters and their kids.

   Some families are really weird like that. It seems very strange to me because mine isn’t at all.

   My husband moved a 5 hour plane ride away to get some distance from it all. His sisters still act like I took him away from them. (Insert eyeroll emoji)

   It kind of reminds me of RHONJ – yes, I have a real housewives analogy for everything – where Teresa doesn’t like her brother’s wife and when her bother defends his wife, Teresa says “stick wit your family,” as if she’s his family but his wife is not.

   1. I could barely understand that post because it’s so far outside the realm of normal. I can’t even envision how that work work, practically speaking, and heck yes that’s going to cause a lot of marital strife, particularly once kids are involved.

      1. It may be cultural. My husband’s family are children of European immigrants (husband’s father was first gen born here, his mother was second gen) and his sisters will sometimes say things like “the German way.”

         As an American mutt I don’t really relate to any culture other than Californian, with a sprinkling of Southern Poor picked up from my dad, so it’s definitely weird to me.

         1. I dated a Polish man who had a similar mentality, and had we married I know I would always be second fiddle to my birth family. Fortunately my husband and in laws are mostly great and welcoming; if anything my family has been the issue.

            I’ve watched enough 90 Day Fiance to know there are plenty of cultures where men are expected to support their birth families and always take their side, so the OP did not seem insane to me. Did anyone see the Asuelu-Kalani debacle last night?

   2. I agree with you, but unfortunately our view is not the majority view here. I have posted before that once you are married, your nuclear family (spouse and kids if any) takes precedence over your family of origin, and have been harshly criticized for it.

      1. Really? I’m so surprised to hear that. What is the defense of not putting your spouse and kids first?

         I mean, even in cultures where you’re expected to essentially be your parents’ retirement, surely your nuclear family comes first even while you’re doing that. (That said, the spouse should know what they’re marrying into and not change their mind about it later.)

      2. I really doubt that, I think that’s the prevailing view among a lot of people. If you were criticized harshly I’m sure there was more to what you were saying.

         1. Lol yes the def def was

         2. +1 I think there may have been specifics of the dynamic that complicated the situation. I definitely remember a post where the wife was jealous of a husband’s closeness with a sister.

         3. The “protect the nuclear” discussion? Some positions came up that sounded overly combative and exclusionary. It also led to a riff on what a “nuclear family” is, in which someone stated that anyone who is unmarried with no kids has no nuclear family.

            Otherwise I agree that this is by far the prevailing opinion. I’ve never seen anyone arguing that your husband shouldn’t defend you from his nitpicking in-laws.

      3. I don’t know what the majority says, but I agree with you.

      4. I don’t make a huge delineation between nuclear and extended family. I love them all the same. But I also think I have an extended family that respects boundaries and doesn’t put me in weird positions.

   3. This is part of the reason I really balk at the notion that treating your serious SO like “just” a girl/boyfriend is ok and should suddenly change when you get married. Dress for the job you want, ya know? If someone isn’t treating you like you want your spouse to treat you, then don’t marry them!

   4. I’m the poster from this morning. It’s a really hard thing to live with, and the weird thing is, my husband didn’t grow up with a family that expected him to subordinate his wife and kid to them. His parents, in fact, are quite the opposite: they actively want their children to get married and have their own nuclear families.

      The great irony is that MY family of origin acts like the spouses of the grown children are accessories. I became the family pariah for telling them that my husband’s desires for our wedding mattered more than theirs and we would pay for it ourselves. They alternate between ignoring my husband’s existence and, when they are really furious with me, kissing up to him to try to get him to take their side against me. Super charming.

      Like your husband’s family, they really think that they are everyone’s primary family. It creates a lot of dysfunction and pain, which then makes everyone cling harder to the family of origin, which makes them even more set against outsiders. My husband thinks they are all whacked but was completely unable to grasp the underlying principles behind the dysfunction, nor the underlying principles behind the functionality of his own parents.

   5. Not the OP, but I married this person also and it’s completely cultural and ingrained in some families from a young age that their family of origin and their parents’ every whim and wish need to come first. I’m just saying to enlighten people who, like me, find this behavior to be really strange. Some specific examples – my father-in-law treats his mother better than his own wife. I know this because I’ve witnessed dad verbally siding with his mother (and telling his wife to be quiet) during disagreements and dad insisting that his mother come along to every single event, so that they never had a date night just the two of them. Another example – I’ve been married for over 15 years and my DH’s sister – to this day – still tells DH (and also DH’s brother) stuff and specifically asks both of the brothers to keep the information among the siblings not to share the information with me and my sister-in-law, even if there’s no reason why the information should be kept from us (e.g., it’s not embarrassing or personal information). It’s as if DH’s family considers people who married into the family to be outsiders who don’t need to be kept in the loop on “family decisions.” It is super-annoying but thankfully DH recognizes this is weird behavior.

      1. It could be cultural, but I imagine that if you married into the Kennedys, maybe in earlier generations, it would have been like this, too.

   6. My brother-in-law is like this, though I’m pretty sure it’s due to his severe Asperger’s. He told my husband when we were house hunting in our first year of marriage that husband was “not allowed” to move outside the zip code they grew up in. We bought a house 12 miles away, and he threw a screaming fit. He’s a complete nightmare.

      1. This is very ableist…yikes. People like you are why so many people don’t disclose their ASD diagnoses.

         1. What a strange comment. If expecting to be able to purchase a home for my family without being threatened and verbally abused is “ableist” then so be it.

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