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Workwear sales of note for 3.24.23:
- Ann Taylor – 40% off everything
- Athleta – 20% off shorts, swim, linen & more
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything; extra 15% off purchase
- Boden – Up to 50% off
- Brooks Brothers – Clearance styles to 70% off. Some pretty serious markdowns!
- Express – 40% off dresses & tops
- J.Crew – 25% off your purchase; up to 50% off special-occasion styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 50% off everything; extra 15% off 3 styles; extra 20% off 4 styles; extra 50% off clearance
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty
- Talbots – 25% off select styles; 25% off markdowns
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- What are your favorite parts of a typical day?
- At what point in your life (age, income level, whatever) were you able to take an annual vacation?
- What shoes can I keep at the office to go for mid-day walks (that go with everything)?
- How do you release stress or trauma that’s stored in the body?
- What are the best “networking for women events” you’ve ever been to?
- I feel like we’re burning through any savings we acquire…
- I hate my job and make 30% of what DH makes – should I quit?
- What do you keep in your office?
Did anyone see the article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about “Why the Shiny Nude Pump Must Die?” First of all, where are all the articles about men’s footwear in the workplace…second, are nude shoes really that out of style? Is patent leather?
I’m wearing nude patent flats today and I don’t care. YOLO. I do think that suede pumps are more popular now though.
wow just read it…what a strange article. Although I do lovingly call my nude pumps my barbie feet! :)
Oh, I will be calling them that now, too!
1. Who is wearing platform shoes as claimed in the article? I thought those went out of style about eight years ago.
2. In my observation, the trend seems to be turning towards regular, non-patent leather “nude-for-you” pumps.
Totally agree – bizarre article. The “inch thick” soles haven’t been popular in my area for quite some time. Even Kate Middleton gave up her ubiquitous Sledges in favor of matte finish heels.
Nude-for-you suede, non-platform, pointed toe heels are more “in” for me.
Same here. I have been obssessed with tan and brown suede heels for a couple years.
Further, are white shoes out of style (not sure that they were ever in style)? I recently bought a pair of lovely white flats that I haven’t worn yet
I have not worn white shoes since I was 11.
Sadly, I do think white shoes are a tricky look to pull off. You’re either going super trendy (leather slides) or they look a little “church-shoes” to me.
I feel like white flats are probably close enough to the white sneaker trend going around that you are fine.
White pumps/heels – probably not so much in vogue.
Sandals with white straps – also probably fine.
They make me think 80s prom or bridal.
Linda from HR
super white pumps might look a little “off,” but I have a pair of slightly off-white flats with lace on them that work with a lot of stuff, both casual and dressy, I often wear on the weekend. I just wouldn’t wear them to work. they are a pain to keep clean though, I have to soak them in Oxyclean every few months.
Bright white shoes are very 80s wedding/bat mitzvah to me.
Hahahahahah yes, this is very accurate. I do remember obsessing about my white flats in the early 80s.
Shall we drink to the lady with the white shoes?
She’ll take all your money and drink all your booze
If patent is out of fashion, I’ll just have to be a rebel. Or unfashionable, because you can pry my nude-for-me patent wedges out of my cold dead hands. I’m so hard on shoes, constantly shredding heels and scraping the backs of my shoes driving. Patent holds up better to daily wear for me.
I will say I haven’t reached for my Kate Middleton style nude pumps in a while, though I’ve been known to wear them once or twice a summer.
In-House in Houston
I’m right there with you, C2!!
The article is stupid. But patent leather or regular leather nude pumps (like Duchess Kate was wearing circa 2014) are definitely out. Not only do they look dated, they rarely wear well and I always notice that the heels look super scuffed/dirty/broken.
Nude-for-you *suede* pumps still seem fine, but other neutrals are better – a nice gray, for example.
If they are out, why do I still see them everywhere? Maybe a regional thing? (I’m SEUS)
Crocs are everywhere too. Not everybody aspires to be trendy, and trends do lag by a few years in some areas. I don’t think patent nude pumps will date you in the way that early 2000s platform heels will, but they’re not very current.
It’s not as fashion-conscious of a region, so it may take a season or two to adjust. They’re not really in style anymore but they’re not that out of date. People like to still get use out of things they bought a couple years ago, but I ‘m betting there won’t be many people purchasing them now.
Argh. Nude pumps (not platform) are just so easy for summer office wardrobe. I don’t want to have to think about what shoes to wear with my office clothes. I just want to have something that works.
I am still wearing mine, but haven’t bought back ups. I am also not buying backup for my nude for me leather, and am when they die will be moving on.
This. I’m still wearing mine, though not as frequently as I did 2-3 years ago, but I haven’t bought replacements again (and the particular pair I normally wear I’ve re-bought 3 times before now). I don’t know what my ultimate replacement will be when they die, but I am finding that I wear flats much more now anyway, so maybe it just won’t be a pump at all…
I always keep in mind that these are-of-the-moment articles written because space must be filled and grabby opinions are interesting and get people talking (witness, us), and that makes it more likely that publications stay in print. It doesn’t mean that I let the author shape what I think or buy.
I gave up nude patent 2 years ago and wore a darker nude/light tan leather last year. When I pulled them out this spring, they felt dated to me. I found a tan suede, low block heel shoe from J.Crew Factory that’s doing the job for me for this year.
Everyone who is able to read this article, do you all have WSJ subscriptions?
I searched it and was able to read it without a subscription.
I read it and have a subscription. Through my office.
I’m still wearing my nude patent leather heels. I’ll admit I don’t aspire to be trendy. But, also, it’s 90 degrees outside already, and suede would seem unseasonable and out of place to me during the summer.
There are few fashion “rules” I follow, but one that makes sense to me is retiring suede shoes (and by the same token, velvet clothes) in the spring/summer. Suede just looks hot to me. I’ll stick with plain leather or patent this time of year.
Yeah, that’s not trendy. Whatever. I aim for classic at the office.
So when exactly can one wear suede–for two weeks in the fall? In the winter, it would get totally ruined by slush/sand/salt/snow.
I’m the [email protected]:18. I think this is very much a regional thing. I live in the SEUS, where we get snow once every 10 years. Suede is perfectly comfortable in our typical winter weather (mid-50s, dry). I don’t even own a pair of boots. On the other hand, it was 80 degrees on my way to the gym at 5:45 am, it will be 90 by lunch, and we’re likely to get thunderstorms by 4 pm.
We get cold winters, but we rarely have slush / sand /salt / snow. So I can wear suede most of the winter. In summer…? Suede looks ‘off” to me when it’s 98 in the shade (as it will be today).
I live in NY. I don’t commute in suede shoes. I carry them–or sometimes just leave them at the office. But I do think they look great with heavier winter fabrics for “real” winter climates.
I live in the SEUS as well. It is probably in the 80s right now. I am wearing very light tan suede pumps. I have heeled sandals in the same color. They aren’t any hotter on my feet than any other shoes.
Honestly, I think nude for you styles and patent leather swing in and out of style to the point that I take a “if I like it I’ll wear, da*n the trends.”
Also, I think whether or not the shoes read trendy or outdated totally depends on personal style. I unintentionally swing towards prep or modern take on vintage 50s 60s, so nude for you flats and patent leather anything still work well.
So what color pump am I supposed to wear with a black dress to the office? In the summer. If not nude or black, is there no uniform shoe possible?
At the recommendation of Capitol Hill Style/The Work Edit, I picked up the Sam Edelman Leah cap toe block heel in tan and black. They’re easy and comfortable, look good with a variety of outfits, and feel very fresh to me for this year.
Lana Del Raygun
Gray, I guess? Blush? I dunno, I think it’s silly and will continue to wear nude pumps whenever I want. And nude non-patent leather looks like character shoes to me.
Red or gold/bronze. They set off my scaly green skin very nicely.
Isn’t green croc nude for you?
I wear black patent in the summer – didn’t know that was a no-no (not that I care).
I also have a pair of snakeskin that I wear with black dresses. Let’s be real, I also wear my Rothy’s loafers with black dresses.
It’s not a no-no. Any color of patent leather is great in the summer. I have black patent peep toes that I love for office-to-dinner, weddings, and such. They’re a bit high for me for regular office wear, unfortunately.
Snakeskin is my summer neutral
But I still pull out my nude pumps occasionally, and have several suede flats (grey is a staple color for my black/white/navy neutral wardrobe). And I wear a bit more navy vs black in the summer to lighten things a bit.
What are your favorite snakeskin shoes? I’m in the market for flats and heels.
The Rockport total motion has a very nice snakeskin (black/white/grey).
The Rockport total motion adelyn ballet flat is my preferred flat right now. It is not a traditional ballet flat round shape, which I don’t care for. It is a sleek simple flat, with a slightly almond shaped pointed toe. For me, the preferred shape for my foot. A nice flexible sole.
I have several pairs of these – Snakeskin, black croc embossed, grey suede and merlot suede. All very nice but they don’t all fit exactly the same. I add heel pads if needed.
The Rockport website can have incredible sales. While the full price is over $100 for these, often there are sales, and with crazy end of season sales I got all of mine for about $25 per pair. Not kidding. But that required buying multiple pairs at a time for the best discounts.
For snakeskin heels, there was a nice J. crew one that I really liked the print of. Pricier.
Nice! I need to replace my nude patent flats anyway (lol) so I’ll definitely look for the multiple pairs offer.
I’m still wearing my nude patent kitten heels. I feel like they are still pretty useful.
I did. I don’t think patent nude pumps must die (even though “nude” isn’t nude for me…), but platform heels of any color have got. To. Go!
Yes, I think the platform sole of the classic Kate Middleton nude pumps is what makes them outdated. A slim pointed toe is much more current.
Maybe it is me – but patent leather anything in the summer is completely unbearable. I feel like my feet are suffocating….I much prefer leather or suede.
To be fair, they are in style enough for the model with the featured pink pants to be wearing them…
Currently wearing black chuck taylors at work so IDGAF. And I don’t think the men I work with spend much headspace worrying about whether their loafers look dated.
That is why nude pumps are so useful. No headspace used on choosing a shoe when I get to the office.
I WISH more men at work (and my husband!) would spend more headspace worrying about whether their loafers look dated. So many tragic shoes out there.
My guy work friends always look fantastic. Impeccable tailoring, gorgeous quality shoes, fun ties and pockets squares. Makes my jealous when I’m combing through frumpy and strange suiting options for women.
I feel the same way!! Not so the guys I work with really care, but there is a set for whom I think it is a competitive sport.
Am I the only one who thought nude pumps (material is a different topic) were classic and timeless? What’s next, black pumps will be out of date too?
I cannot bring myself to care about what other people think I should or shouldn’t wear. I trust my styling capabilities and if I think nude pumps or neon pink bikini tops or banana hats look good on me, then I’m rolling with it – no questions asked.
I love to hate these types of articles, though. Other peoples’ opinions are hilarious. And agree with those who note these articles are space-fillers/ad-sellers.
Thank you to everyone who gave me advice last week. I had my first appearance on TV as a subject matter expert, and managed to not make a fool of myself. Thank you!!!!
I’m not big into taking pictures when I travel, so I’ve gotten into the habit of buying pretty postcards from places I’ve visited. I’ve amassed a good collection at this point and it seems sad they’re just sitting in a box. I’m wondering does anyone have any ideas on a nice way to display them?
I send postcards to my nieces and bought them picture albums to put them in.
You could do a gallery wall?
I always spend time antiquing when I’m in a new city, and always buy an old black and white or sepia postcard with an iconic image or historic skyline view from that city. Over time I’ve collected a number of European cities as well as places like Charleston, Boston, DC, SF, etc. It’s a pretty little collection. I have a tiny wall in my house that isn’t suitable much else, so they are in a loose gallery formation there, and I add to them. I use frames similar to these: https://www.worldmarket.com/product/reese+horizontal+wall+frames.do?sortby=ourPicks
Oops – realized after posting the last frame is a stand and wouldn’t work for a gallery wall, but from the front it’s visually similar to a couple I found at an antique shop I was able to hang on the wall.
I scan them–or recently, photograph them and crop my dining room table out of the background–and scrapbook them. Lately I mix in photos, when I was younger I used to sketch, write journal entries, or beg photos off of fellow travelers. It’s not cost prohibitive to print books at the local pharmacy, and they store compactly.
It’s not quite as twee and suburban as it sounds. Since graphic design is a skill I’d like to supplement my career with, I do invest time and beg help from experts I know. But it’s also a nice time-suck with lots of creative possibilities.
I have a postcard wall in my hallway. I’ve framed each on and hung it in a big grid.
Always a conversation starter.
Is anyone here familiar with graduate school admissions committees? I’m gearing up to apply for programs that begin Fall 2019. In the meantime, I’m interested in a one year online graduate certificate program (at a school I don’t plan on attending for grad school). Will it help pad my application or are graduate certificates largely irrelevant to admissions committees? I should add that my employer will pay for it, so there is really no downside to me.
Can you give us some more details about the program in which you’re interested? The advice will be drastically different if you’re applying to do a math PhD or an MBA.
My grad school aspirations are for international relations programs and the certificate I’m considering in the meantime is in t e r r o r i s m analysis from UMD. I plan to pursue a career in CT (trying to avoid mod).
I went to a top 15 political science doctoral program in IR after I was a little older (28). About half my cohort was going straight through and only had a bachelor’s. The other half had relevant work experience (nonprofits, government, mine was in law) OR a master’s degree from a reputable program (two from Chicago, one from one of the UC’s– LA? Berkeley? Don’t recall). If you are not going into academia and just want a master’s so you can do a think tank/RAND/government type thing, I think the certificate might help if you do not have relevant work experience. If you are working in the field, I would ask a mentor at work if the certificate is worth it. If you want an IR Ph.D. from a good school (and you don’t want it from a bad one), I don’t think the certificate will help. And frankly, in my experience, while the people who already had an MA were better set to finish their PhD in a reasonable amount of time– none took longer than 5 years– but they all had to pay out of pocket for the MA, whereas we got (pitiful) stipends in the PhD program.
Thank you for the reply! My situation is the first you described – I don’t particularly plan on going on for a PhD and my goal is Dept of State or another agency. I have 3 years of professional experience in banking (will be 4 by the time I enter a program) in a department semi-related to IR (think investigating money laundering/T financing and research into certain global regions). My concern is that I won’t get accepted to my desired programs with my 3.3 GPA from a small state school and I’m trying to pad my application for both admission and outside scholarships. I really want to show my passion for the industry too.
This is the anon from 10:31– in your case I think the certificate might help then, but I actually think that’s the perfect question for an informational interview, if you can get one with someone at a govt department like the one you are interested in. Then you can ask questions like how much the standing of the grad school you go to matters– does it need to be top 10? Top 3? I think the fact that your work experience can be tied to IR will actually weigh heavily, especially since you don’t want to do academia. Another thing I would recommend is to look at the profiles of the grad students on the website of the schools you’re interested in. Usually they have writeups about themselves and email addresses– it might not be a bad idea to reach out and get one of their opinions. I loved being asked about my program by prospective students when I was in it.
Yay! Fruegel Fridays! I love Fruegel Fridays and these pants, but not for work! I will show Rosa b/c she ALWAYS wears pants at home. Dad says she also wears the pants in that family, which means that Ed has been neutered by her! YAY Rosa!
As for the OP, I am very familiar with this issue. When I got a BA degree, I knew I wanted more, and could not do much with a BA. So I told my dad I wanted to be a lawyer, and he said how about trying it first, as a paralegal. He looked into it and told me it would take a year and I would get a Certificate. I said FOOEY! I want to be an ATTORNEY! (I onley knew about this from LA law). So he said OK, go ahead and apply and I will pay for it. So I did, and I got in and graduated, but when I got out, I was doeing things that I could do with a BA, and did NOT need even a Paralegal Certificate. NONETHELESS, I bumped into the manageing partner, and b/c I had a graduate JD degree, and he liked me, he hired me.
So the morale is, Graduate School CAN make a difference! You must schmooze the admission’s committee with whatever you can to differentiate yourself from the others who are looking to get in. If your employer will pay for it, why NOT? It shows you are committed to doeing something, and when you do get in, you will have a leg up on others who do NOT have this certificate. Even if it is useless, it STILL is better then nothing, b/c you can always hang it on the wall of your powder room at home! YAY!!!!!!
Just a note about these pants in this color: they are much…dustier? and almost an orchidy-lavender, than they appear. I bought them and was expecting a more pinky, bubblegummy look like the photos, but they are a little more muted. I still love them (and will be living in the navy version!), but a heads up.
Mauve. The word I was looking for was mauve. There more mauve than pink.
So more millenial pink than bubblegum pink? That actually makes me want them more!
“Millennial pink” is blush, with a slightly tan undertone. Mauve is sort of purpley.
These are more purpley in person than they appear online.
They remind me of a lighter essie chinchilly polish.
I think a little dustier than millennial pink, but yes!
I think the pant in mauve makes them more wearable in conservative but business casual environments.
How is the fit? I’ve found Factory sizing can be a little wonky-leaning small. If I’m say, a 16 in BR Sloans? Do I want a 16, 18 or…?
I don’t know the sloan style well at all, but I’m a 14 in Loft Julie Curvy, a 16 in all other non-curvy pants, and I bought these in a 16. I think that they fit well, if you are aware that they need to ride a little higher than normal pants to achieve the pull on look. I would honestly have gone up a size in the pink ones (as opposed to the navy), because they don’t camo lumps and bumps as well.
Tl dr: size up for best results, it will still look great.
in mod with details.
Booo you got me all excited and the navy is sold out in all but lucky sizes.
I bought a pair of these on Poshmark yesterday after someone mentioned them in a comment, so check there for the Navy and Black
It would’ve never occurred to me to look for these at Poshmark. My sizes are all sold out on the Factory page so I just looked at Poshmark. I found a few pairs that might work, but they all have a drawstring. I feel like that makes the pants look even more casual – thoughts?
I saw that option too and I think it’s another season’s style. I was able to find this exact pair and went with those because I did like the “cleaner” faux trouser front as opposed to the drawstring, which I think does read more casual.
I have the regular J Crew version of these and I like them very much, although the fabric is a bit heavy to wear in spring/summer.
I am a lawyer in my first in-house position after about a decade working in law firms. I took the job to get my foot in the in-house door, and I know this is not my forever job. I am wondering how long I should stay to not be perceived as a job hopper and also wondering if there is an optimal amount of time to make a switch. Here’s my job history
1 year at firm #1
1.5 year at firm #2
3 years at firm #3
4 years at firm #4
current in house job
I’d say you could stay as little as 1-2 years, as long as (a) there are obvious reasons for your next move, like a better title or a more prestigious company or a move back to a firm if it turns out you don’t like being in-house, and (b) your next job is definitely somewhere you can stay 4-5 years. You’ve had decently long stays at your last 2 jobs, and a move in-house is a pretty common one at this point in your career, so I don’t think you look like a job hopper yet.
To me, that’s a lot of jumping unless there are good explanations for at least one or two of those moves (and I mean more than just it “wasn’t a good fit” – something like you moved cities or a firm shut its doors, or you followed a partner to another firm).
As an addendum, I think I should add that by this board’s standards, I am a relative “old.” Others may feel that’s not a lot of jumping. But I am the one on the hiring committee…
I agree that it seems like a lot of jumps, unless there is a move/practice group change, etc.
If you were a friend, I would recommend staying at least 2 years and moving somewhere you plan to stay for at least 3-4 years. I think some in-house jobs might be willing to ignore a lot of moves between firms, but if you have two shorter stints in-house, then you just look like a job hopper.
BUT I’m old fashioned, and look for jobs where I will be happy for 5+ years. And I look for that in the people I hire.
It’s tend to agree. You could spin into law firm time then in-house time, but I get suspicious of all short stints and nothing really long term. I’d try to stay a few years at least at your first in-house job. Even if it’s not your forever company (and what is, really), it takes some time to adjust your practice to in-house and to make an impact that will help you move. That said, if you’re really unhappy, keep in touch with your network and let it be known you’re up for a move so you can at least consider other things.
With three and four year stings, you are definitely not in the job hopper category, and the first two jobs could be seen as early career seeking a good fit. If companies refuse to promote properly with accompanying salary raises from within, then to another position we go. 10 yrs at a company, at least for the millennial and younger generation is not common. But try to stay in at least the 3 to 5 yr range for each position so it is obvious that you are moving for normal reasons (ie promotion, money, title, etc.)
anon a mouse
So you’re on job #5 in a little more than 10 years. That’s a lot, but not terrible if you can explain clearly why you left each one and there’s not an alarming pattern.
You probably need to stay at this job until you are an expert at it — a minimum of 3 years. Otherwise you risk looking like someone who has an inflated sense of her expertise and someone who is not going to give a good ROI on a company’s training and the time it will take to perform for an employer.
I think the more recent 3 and 4 year jobs are more important than the 2 short jobs at the beginning of your career, but I think you need to stay at this job at least 2 years.
Job Offer Fatigue
I got a job offer! (smaller firm, I’m a 2-3rd year attorney) at a place where I’d really like to be! The work is right up my alley, skill set, engaging topic, laid back office vibe…
Except the salary is $5k less than I: 1) would like to be and 2) came from in my last position. Ugh! counteroffer was totally rebuffed. The base-starting-salary is what it is. Which honestly, isn’t *that* far below what I’d like, but it was an odd feeling to get flat out rejected. when women are told to ALWAYS negotiate salary. With EOY bonus and annual raises I’ll get to the salary I actually want in a year.
Mostly a vent/whine? Would love if anyone has an anecdote about taking lower starting salary & loving the job with a temporary $ stepback? Other than the money, on every front I am inclined to take the job…
I’d be feeling like I’d taken a hit and that I’d lost and would be giving in if I went ahead and took the job. (there would also be a hit to my pride.)
However, I wouldn’t let that temporary setback keep me away from a job I wanted, where the salary would be what I wanted within a year.
Job Offer Fatigue
this is totally the feeling! like I lost.
thanks for the comment <3
I took a significant pay cut for my current job. I went from $105K at a large regional firm to $90K at a small suburban firm. The benefits at my old firm were much better too.
I’ve been at my new job for about a year and a half. I love my work (I’ve had the opportunity to practice in my preferred niche area). I love my hours and the fact that there’s no billable requirement. I received a decent bonus at the end of last year. I’m about to get a raise that should bring me up to what I was earning at Old Job, plus a significant bonus that will make up for the difference in salary this year.
I was so defeated at my previous job. I dreaded going to work everyday. My stress and anxiety spiraled into significant health problems. Now, I’m happier and more confident, and that’s allowed me to become actually better at my job, and that’s led to increased $$.
To be honest, the money part has been hard. I’m the primary earner in my family, and I have a child. But I think, long-term, it’ll be a blip on a long career, and I wish I’d left my old firm earlier than I did.
Congrats! Hmm, I wonder if it was my firm that just made you the offer…. Be proud of yourself for negotiating and don’t take the rebuff personally. I know that my firm simply has a hard stop for reasons that are not super great, but are institutional rather than personal. I’ve been in your exact position with my firm. Also, 5k matters, but I don’t think that’s enough reason to take a job offer you otherwise are excited about. It’s 3k after taxes. Liking your job and the people you work with is so, so, so valuable. I spent way more than 3k/year on therapy and meds when I was in a terrible job. This is the sort of pay cut where it will come out in the wash, as opposed to taking a job where you are significantly reducing your earning potential over the long haul (such as moving from private sector to government, or moving from biglaw to small law).
Just a quick note on the lack of a counter to your demand for a higher salary – as a 2/3 year associate, if you are going to a firm of any size, the salary is likely lock-step. You were likely offered what a 2/3 year associate at that firm makes in that office. In this situation, it doesn’t have anything to do with you being female (though good job trying!).
anon a mouse
Are you looking at total benefits? Is your health insurance more/less? Are there other benefits that are substantially better/worse than your current job? You should be considering total package. (A friend recently went from government to industry and was jazzed about his 30% raise until he realized that almost all of it went to higher health insurance premiums.)
If this is where you want to be long-term, it’s worth it.
Job Offer Fatigue
yes definitely – putting the starting salary number aside, all other elements point me toward yes. I guess I was momentarily hung up on the offer itself.
Thanks everyone above for the helpful comments – I really appreciate the advice.
If you are going to a smaller firm, this is totally normal. I live in a small state with no real big law. The “big” firm here has 50 attorneys. I went from a 30 attorney firm that paid above market to a 7 attorney firm. My starting salary was $5,000 less with assurances that after a couple years I would be way ahead of where I would be at old firm. That’s because we do a lot of contingency fee cases and there is big bonus potential. They didn’t lie. Within three years they raised my base to 90 and with bonuses, I made $150k last year with a WAY better lifestyle than at the old firm. Do it!
Just want to send some empathy. I’ve been in that situation, though worse, perhaps, in terms of ego blow? I was temping (hourly) at a firm for a while and they finally offered me full time employment (salary). I asked for $X (with reasons why it was fair) and he said, “I was thinking more like [one half of $X]” (no benefits). I said, “I’ll make less money going from temp to perm with your offer, so I think I’ll just keep my temp status” and he said, “well, if you want to stay on as a temp, I can’t guarantee you’ll keep getting any hours.” So, lovely way to start of a lovely relationship with a lovely employer (not really, he was trash).
I think the point of this story is that I’ve failed bigtime in negotiating too, and sometimes it’s not personal, you’re just dealing with someone who holds all the cards and isn’t interested in budging.
Anon Small Firm Attorney
I took a paycut (biglaw lockstep to smaller firm with biglaw-ish compensation, though with bonuses, the gap gets pretty big) and do not regret it at all. I knew I’d get much better work/more substantive work at the new place, and I loved the vibe and the people, and expected significantly better work-life balance. The old place as not a good fit for me, so this was the best decision I could make.
Like a few other commenters here, I’m echoing the point that it shouldn’t be a problem that your counteroffer was rebuffed. I also tried to negotiate a bit, and it felt awkward to be told no in no uncertain terms. There’s just no room for negotiation on any of the compensation-related points at my small firm, we’re lockstep for associates (with black box bonuses that also appear to be the same for everyone of the same seniority, and either way, they don’t negotiate it with us).
Anon Small Firm
My longer reply seems to be stuck in moderation, but I wanted to echo the point others made that you shouldn’t feel bad about not being able to negotiate. I did the same when transitioning to a small firm, and had the same result. It’s simply that they’re lockstep (with black box bonuses that they don’t negotiate with us at all on) as a matter of policy, and no one would be able to negotiate.
Are these pants flattering on someone with a straight waist large behind? I have trouble imagining a drapey style like this flattering my figure, but I like the comfort factor and the price point.
What should I wear to work in a super casual office during a sticky, humid summer?
Context is that guys tend to be fairly covered up in jeans, sneakers and tees, and women are all over the map. Younger women tend to wear shorter dresses with a jean jacket, but I think it looks a little too casual and young for me. Sundresses and maxis feel too bare or beachy. Do I need a wardrobe of shirtdresses? I’m 38, so I don’t want to look too young or clueless.
I wear the women’s version of what you describe the guys wearing: ankle length or rolled jeans, nice knit tops, and sneakers or sandals.
There are a WHOLE lot of midi dresses out there these days. I’d be wearing those (shirtdresses aren’t my thing).
I would not wear maxis to work, nor short dresses.
We’re a pretty casual office but people dress up if they have meetings, and older/more senior colleagues dress more business casual than casual. I suggest Cotton/Jersey shift dresses (and a shirt-dress sounds look a good idea too), Ankle pants and a cute top, or White jeans and a cute top. I never feel comfortable with a maxi dress in the office, I don’t know why.
Linen pants in a neutral-ish color. Short sleeve drapy blouse in a material that’s breathable and doesn’t show sweat stains (some silks work for this). Necklace to take it up a notch. Lightweight cardigan to combat air conditioning.
Yes. BUY ALL THE LINEN.
I work in a super casual office with lousy air conditioning in a hot, humid climate. I wear an above-knee t-shirt dress with a jean jacket almost every day during the summer. I don’t think it’s too young a look, and I’m in my early 40s. I also have a couple of pairs of flowy, unlined linen pants.
I wouldn’t wear maxis or sundresses to an office.
I wear a version of what the guys in your office wear: ankle or rolled jeans, sandals or sneakers, and a nice knit top.
Or, a midi dress with sneakers or sandals. There are a TON of longer dresses out this summer, that are not maxis.
I don’t wear shirt dresses, as the cuts don’t work for my body shape, but they’re fine, too.
Loft has nice casual linen-cotton blend jackets, sort of cut like jeans jackets with a bit of a twist. I love these for summer – helpful to combat AC, but not too hot here in sticky DC. They wrinkle some, but because of the blend, not too badly.
Just in case you are looking for an alternative to cardigans.
Lana Del Raygun
What about capri pants and shirts in cotton or linen (especially seersucker or poplin)? In my mind it’s a very age-neutral look, and with a crisp poplin shirt you can keep from looking casual.
No no no capri pants. Maybe if you are….65. Ankle length, cute flats (or sneakers if that works in this environment) with cute tops.
Lana Del Raygun
Maybe we’re picturing something different? When I say “capri pants” I mean what everyone seems to be selling (including to a very young market) under the name “cropped pants” (excepting the weird ones like cropped flare jeans).
I think the general perception is that capri fall to mid-calf, whereas cropped are just a bit shorter than ankle length.
fwiw, I do not think of capri pants as age neutral – I associate them almost exclusively with women over 50 who dislike skirts and dresses, and are self conscious about their legs.
Hi, you are me. I am all about summer pants – linen or light fabrics in casual summery styles like a tapered ankle cut – paired with sleeveless shells. I also really like J Crew Factory for dresses that are casual but not too young or beachy. I love sleeveless shirt dresses too. And bring a cardigan for the AC.
I’m 40. I wear dresses all the time in summer.
Old Navy Jersey Swing dresses with a cardigan – it gets cold inside.
Fit and Flare dresses from Land’s End
I’ve also found casual dresses from Max Studio at Marshalls/TJ Maxx and Nordstrom Rack
This sounds like a great application for the short sleeved Ponte-Knit Sheath Dresses Old Navy has right now.
Shirt dresses or wrap dresses would work well. I’d probably wear ankle pants and loose blouses.
Lands end fit and flare all the way. Add a statement necklace and/or sweater if it gets chilly.
Speaking of Jcrew, this dress looks really cute. Anyone have it and can comment on size/fit?
I tried this on and rejected it — something about the armhole/sleeve design did NOT work for my proportions. It was like a picture frame for my upper b–b/armpit area.
I bought and returned it. It fits like a standard J Crew sheath, but I really did not like the pleats in the front — they added a bunch of bulk and weight that was really uncomfortable to wear and looked unflattering when turned sideways. This coming from someone who owns just about every sheath dress J Crew has made in the last 5 years.
I bought it in navy and returned it. It was too big/loose in the stomach and ended up looking very unflattering on my tall, skinny body (I am 5’10 and bought a size 2 for reference). If you are more curvy than I am, it could work for you!
The model must have it pinned/clipped in the back in the pics from the front view online.
Salt Water Sandals
Does anyone like these for the summer? Are they comfy? I want something cute and not too expensive that I can wear to the beach etc. The rose gold and bright colors are really calling my name.
To me these are classic toddler sandals. I can’t understand them on adults. My 11-year-old even refuses to wear them because they are “baby shoes.”
Salt Water Sandals
Ha, they just look really retro to me which I like! They’re adorable in kiddie sizes too though.
Never too many shoes...
Hard. Pass. for the reasons above – they look like the little kid sandals my parents made me wear in the 70s.
I’ve never worn the adult ones, but my LOs both wear them exclusively in the summer. They seem to think they are comfy and we have never had any blister issues. I love their version of rose gold – so classic.
Lana Del Raygun
I have these and I like them a lot! For beach wear, I like that they’re open enough you can basically just shake your foot around to clear sand out. I wear them with shorts but also with nice dresses to church. I’ve also never had any blisters.
A couple caveats: they’re supposed to be adjustable in the toe but I have never been able to figure out how to keep them tight; the leather will stretch when wet so if you wear them wet a lot you may eventually have to punch extra holes on the strap; the soles are thin so they’re not the best for lots of walking on hard surfaces.
Salt Water Sandals
Thank you! How do they fit? I’m a 7.5 normally but according to the size chart I should be a 6!
Lana Del Raygun
I bought them a long time ago and I think I followed their size chart (I can check when I get home, but it may have rubbed off). I did get the wide, which turns out to be overkill, but enough of my other shoes are snug on my poor duck toes that I like them that way.
Salt Water Sandals
Thank you! I just ordered the bright red ones which look so fun for summer. Baby shoes be damned.
I was coming to this site to post the same question :) Can anyone comment on how they fit in terms of arch support?
I wore them my entire childhood through college and even wore them at my wedding. But as an adult with more problematic feet, I can’t wear them anymore. The sole is just flat hard rubber and sadly I am too old for that.
Which is to say, zero support and a very hard sole.
Linda from HR
They come in rose gold now? Aaaah, want! I have the white ones I bought like five years ago, and I still like them. They’re kind of a pain to put on and take off and sometimes I’d rather just wear flip flops, and I have heard people call them “toddler shoes” but I think they’re cute. Maybe I need a new pair . . .
How do you find they fit?
They are very comfy. Yes, they do look like toddlers, and they are retro. They are very very flat, with no arch support or tiny heel. That makes them a little unusual to walk in…but comfy, yes.
I’ve noticed they look better on adults with smaller feet. They tend to make your foot look bigger than you are used to seeing it because of the flatness aspect.
I’m trying to get caught up on news from yesterday, and I’m reading about the Samantha Bee issue. I’m not British, but I’ve always been told the c-word isn’t as vulgar there, it’s more akin to how Americans use the word dick. As in, it’s obviously not nice, but not really a gendered slur anymore.
Is that true? And if so, does it matter? I suppose she’s on an American show, so she should be sensitive to terms Americans consider vulgar. Interested in hearing thoughts, since I was raised by a very “sailor” family where terms like those were thrown around like candy even in front of kids, so I know my internal meter is off.
She isn’t British? So why is this a question?
Argh I didn’t connect the dots. …so I’m not sure if Canadian English would have a similar quirk about the word.
Lana Del Raygun.
I don’t think it matters, since she’s an American talking about Americans on an American show. It the US it it absolutely a misogynist slur and I’m disgusted at all the “feminists” dismissing it as just “vulgar language.”
She’s an American citizen working in America who is a long time American resident. She knew what the word meant.
Lana Del Raygun
She’s an American citizen; she lives in NYC; she started on the Daily Show in 2003. You can’t spend 15 years in this country and not realize that the c-word is a slur (even if it’s not in Canada, which I know of no evidence of).
I’ve lived in Canada for 10 years and know that the c-word is vulgar and insulting (I previously lived in an African country where I had never heard the c-word). It’s actually one of the very few words I take offense to.
+1 to this.
I am with lawsuited who said below that it’s actually one of the very few words I take offense to.
It is absolutely a gendered slur and I’m shocked that anyone can defend it. Samantha Bee was probably trying to come off as a fun feminist – one who isn’t afraid to swear, use anti-woman slurs, and be one of the “cool” girls.
Lana Del Raygun
“You’ve got to stop calling each other slu+s and wh*res! It just makes it okay for guys to call you slu+s and wh*res!”
She’s Canadian, not British. The c-word is definitely still a slur in America. I’ve seen articles about some women trying to reclaim the c-word so it’s not a gendered slur used by men to keep women down anymore. But lots of people still find it an offensive word. I’m glad she apologized and it looks like her show won’t be cancelled, which is great cuz I really love her show.
Never too many shoes...
Meh. I spent several years in Scotland where the c-word is used in a variety of casual ways, many of which are not even an insult. Example, “Steve? Ach, he’s a right good c”. I have become immune, I guess.
But I also love Samantha B and do not think this was that big of a deal. Leaving aside the fact that it is insane to get upset about any words that call out Ivanka, the ultimate in complicit, mean girls.
We aren’t in Scotland.
Eek. It’s not used in Scotland except by “cool” comics and junkies. It’s not ever used by people in polite conversation. It’s the only totally forbitten word in the UK.
I think that it is a very gendered slur (unlike b**ch) in my SEUS city (but like many here, I am from NYC, where we also did not use it except as a complete showstopper).
I hate to sound like my mom, but she is right on this point: throwing things like this around is a sure sign of poor work and intellectual laziness of the first order. Calling Ivanka Trump the c-word is not novel. It shows the speaker up as lazy (no original words, remarks about a public figure but not in response to anything particularly noteworthy, remark is unrelated to that body part, etc.). It says something bad about the speaker. Samantha Bee — go home, turn off your phone, and learn some better words.
I think it’s a disgusting word, a misogynistic insult, and she was wrong to use it. What I can’t stand, though, is the comparison that I’m seeing between her words and Rosanne’s racist insult. Bee’s insult was gross, but Rosanne was straight up racist. It’s not the same.
Sally Field said it best: “I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.”
Sally Field said it best: “I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a c—. C—s are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.”
This made me laugh out loud…Sally FIELD??!?!? said that?
Eve Ensler has a section on the C Word in the Vagi**ulva Monologues, and is probably watching with interest.
Question about summer fabrics… I recently bought a white tweedy jacket from Zara that’s obviously Chanel-inspired, is this appropriate for summer? I know I can wear what I want but I don’t want to look out of place. Same question re: Boucle. MMLF has a boucle dress that I think is gorgeous but not very summery.
To me it makes a huge difference what your “place” is. If you wore this in my southern city, I would assume you worked in a highly air conditioned office. If you were wearing it out and around, I’d wonder how you had the apparently supernatural ability to wear tweed in stifling heat and humidity.
But truly, don’t worry about what people think. I just wouldn’t wear it with an obviously summery fabric, like a gauzy dress, or breezy linen. In my casual area, I’d wear it with a black denim skirt and a t-shirt. In October, when it finally cooled down enough to tolerate the thought of an extra layer. :)
I think the white colour makes it very summery.
I want these pants so badly. I went to purchase a pair or two last week when everything was 50% off, but missed my size. Ugh! I’m glad to see they’re getting good reviews from folks on here.
Seeking Athens Recommendations
The ladies are on this board always offer incredibly helpful travel ideas/tips, so giving this a go!
My husband and I (no kids, early 30s) will be in Athens in mid-June for 4 days. We’re considering the major archeological sights, a walking food tour, and a day trip to some nearby islands (Aegina, Poros and Hydra). Any other suggestions or tips on what to do/see and where to eat?!
Go back to Pangrati (my old neighborhood) and eat all the 2.50-euro gyros and visit my little bakery family for me. In all seriousness, though, apparently Pangrati is cool now (it was pretty sleepy/quaint when I lived there). http://www.greece-is.com/athens-hippest-neighborhoods-the-understated-cool-of-pangrati/
Climb or ride the funicular up Lycabettus, the views are wonderful. I still wear my sandals from Melissinos Art -The Poet Sandal Maker. He’s delightful and worth the wait if there’s a line. I was googling the name of the poet sandalmaker and this fresh article came up that might be helpful: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/ny-fea-travel-athens-greece-20180531-story.html
Please note that it can get HOT in Athens in the summer – everything is marble and you can feel like you’re on a hot plate.
Overall, the Greeks are kind, passionate wonderful people (with a tendency to riot when they get worked up). I’ve always found them to have great hospitality and they truly appreciate a few words of Greek from travellers – even just excuse me (signomi), please (parakalo) thank you (efharisto), yes (ne), no (oxi), good morning/ good afternoon (kalimera/kalispera). For the most part though, most Athenians speak at least some English and understand the rest of the world doesn’t read their alphabet and finds it difficult to learn their language.
Seeking Athens Recommendations
Thank you! These recommendations are wonderful. What is the bakery you mentioned in Pangrati?
Sadly it is probably gone. It was called Suzanna’s and now appears to be Kokkinoskoufitsa – although according to the big search engine that could also be permanently closed. Could have been the same family but who knows. I lived there sort of at the end of the financial crisis but before the debt crisis really took hold, so not surprised if it has changed. My favorite gyros are down the street at a place called Grill & Pita.
I’d like to change up my work “uniform” this summer and could used some shopping help. I’m looking for a sleeveless or 3/4 sleeve dress (short or cap sleeves make my upper arms looks bigger) that is fitted in the chest and waist and then slightly flared, pleated, or pin-tuck in the bottom to make room for my larger hips. I’ve found a few dresses in this “fit and flare” style but a lot of them are too flared, which I think looks a little unprofessional on me. I’d like to find something that comes in a few colors so I can buy several of them. I’m looking for something that is simple and easy to just pull out of the closet, add a cardigan or jacket, and go. I also can’t spend a ton of money on this. I live in a hot summer climate (DC) so ponte is okay but anything lined would be too hot. This seems like an easy find but my usual stores (Loft, Banana, Jcrew Factory) are letting me down on this one and I haven’t been able to find this anywhere else! Thanks to anyone who wants to take on this shopping challenge!
+1 Land’s End Fit & Flare dresses
I’m also in D.C. I’ve enjoyed this dress. Yes, it’s just a t-shirt dress, but I’ve found that it dresses up nicely with heels and a necklace. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075L31D6T/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s06?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1
My only lament is that it doesn’t come in prettier (Loft-like) colors.
Check out Banana Republic Factory (they have an online presence). Their stuff is cheaper, but IMO not hugely worse quality than regular Banana and I really like their dresses.
Also Macy’s – again, I’d stick to online so you can search more easily for what you’re looking for. They have a lot of dresses.
Boden seems to have some options that would meet your criteria.
macy’s usually has charter club dresses that meet this description in a bunch of colors, often for a very good price (under $40)
(I’m at work, so unable to peruse too closely or send specific links, but …) try Everlane, COS, or Joe Fresh. Uniqlo often has good options, but it looks like not right now. You could also try an Amazon search.
I’ve bought similar dresses from Talbots.
I can’t seem to leave a comment to the nude patent leather platform pump thread.
1) platform pumps have got to go. I always hated them. They are the most ungrateful shoes ever and they are like a mullet – in this case chunky in the front, skinny in the back. They have no sense of balance.
2) patent leather is ok but I think it can look really cheap in nude. I do not think suede is a winter only option – particularly, suede in lighter shades looks beautiful in warmer months with lighter clothing and bare legs. With the matte trend going on right now (I even saw a black matte Maserati yesterday) it makes sense that fashion would move away from patent toward suede.
3) non-nude shoe colors that work with everything include grey, pale pink, and other shades of tan and taupe that are not nude-for-you. I had a pair of light denim blue suede shoes that I wore with all colors in the summer and I wish I still had them but I wore them out.
Matte eyeshadow started it all
Interesting thoughts re: matte trend right now. I think I agree.
We are due for a new dishwasher. New refrigerator and built-in microwave are stainless steel, of course. I guess I should just give in and get stainless dishwasher, right? Shiny but we aren’t planning to move anytime soon so who cares.
I meant *ungraceful, but thanks for the assist, Siri
Has anyone used ozone cleaning to get odors out of clothes? Sent a dress and a suit jacket to the dry cleaners and it came back still smelling like BO (better than it was when I sent it, though). People elsewhere on the internet recommend ozone cleaning to get out stubborn smells, but I thought I’d look here for advice as well.
Have you tried alcohol yet (either the rubbing alcohol in your medicine cabinet or vodka?) That’s what I’d try first, personally.
I did before I sent them to the dry cleaner – helped some but didn not kick it entirely.
Talk to me about treating odors with vodka. I’ve seen this suggestion, but what are the steps for actually applying it without ruining clothes?
Use a spray bottle. And I use rubbing alcohol instead, since it’s much, much cheaper than even cheap vodka and has the same effect.
Do you just let it dry with no other next steps or do you have to rinse?
No rinsing, just let it dry. I let it dry in the sun if it’s warm out to further kill off stink.
Spray with vodka?
Did prior to the dry cleaner – helped but did not get rid of the smell entirely.
Try Nature’s Miracle. We have a bottle around from my dog’s puppy days and I used it on super smelly blazers and other fabrics that eat up smell. It’s an enzymatic cleaner, so it works.
Unsolicited product recommendation: Just tried a spray-on product called ColorWow Dreamcoat on my frizzy, fine hair. My hair is magically not frizzy and I am feeling quite Kate Middleton (pumps and all) right now. This is not a paid endorsement – I am a longtime commenter under this name and a longtime sufferer of fine, frizzy hair.
In-house vs. private practice
I am currently in-house doing transactional work and thinking more and more that I have made a mistake and want to go back to litigating at a firm. I have a very cushy/easy job and it is not very intellectually challenging or interesting most of the time. I love litigation, but at my old firm, I was working constantly to the point of physical illness and had a few abusive partners. Should I even think about going back to a firm (definitely a different firm) and litigation? Is it even possible to go back after doing transactional work? FWIW, I have a federal clerkship, worked at a firm for 3 years, and have been in house for 3 years. What drove me away from my last job, in hindsight, was more the firm than the work itself.
Are there other opportunities within your department that you could request to make your current situation more challenging and rewarding? I’d probably try to make those work as much as possible before moving. You’re in an objectively great work situation, so the chances of finding something that is better will be tough.
Can someone please explain to me how to style these pants? I have them in navy, they are very comfortable, but I feel shlubby when I wear them. I usually wear tight pants and a loose blouse to work. Thanks!
it sounds like part of it is just getting (psychologically) comfortable with looser pants.
I’d also wear them with tops that have structure. So, instead of a loose blouse and loose pants, look for a top that fits well at the shoulders and bust, follows your body more closely, maybe a woven and not a knit, etc. You might also need a shorter, cropped top to make the proportions work better for you.
I feel less schlubby with a tucked-in shirt but YMMV.
I somehow spilled salad dressing on my bag at our office potluck. The bag is tanned leather from ABLE and has a tendency to absorb anything. (I will not rebuy this bag.) I’ve tried cornstarch and dawn dish soap but have really only succeeded in spreading the stain around the bag. Anyone have any other ideas? I’m scared to know how much this would cost to get cleaned at a leather cleaners.
It might be the same as cornstarch, but I’ve used baby powder for this in the past. Leave it on a good 24 hours or so. I don’t think dish soap is good for leather, especially if it has a more permeable surface. And maybe a good leather conditioner after will help make it look more even?
FWIW, I’ve found leather cleaners to be pretty effective in the past.
Sigh. I would give up and rub the whole thing with mink oil.
+ maybe clean with saddle soap first to get rid of any salad-y odors.
Another Unsolicited Product Recommendation (different Anon): Sephora spray foundation (a dupe for the Dior one). I picked up a bunch of different foundations/ tinted moisturizers during the Sephora sale and this one is my surprise favorite. I spray it directly on to a flat top brush and then brush it on to my face starting in the middle and moving outward. It is so fast and easy to use and looks like I have naturally perfect skin. And its really cheap. Love this stuff.
Guys. I’m miserable. I’m 14 weeks pregnant and nothing fits. I’ve gained 4 lbs but feel like I’ve gained 20. And it’s starting to get hot here. I’m in biglaw and don’t plan on announcing for another 2 weeks (is that crazy?)
I need some cool, loose-ish, but business casual appropriate dresses to get me through the next couple months. I’m desperate. Any suggestions appreciated!
Ouch! That hurts
Try Boden and Talbots. Congratulations.
The moderation on this s*te is insane. I have now tried to post twice … a question about maternity dresses. There is literally not a single word in the post that is objectionable or even strange.