This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
DvF dresses are often heralded as workwear classics (and I've said the same about the longer version of the wrap dress), but the problem with many of the dresses is that they're too short, too low cut (wrap dresses, I'm looking at you), and often sized substantially differently than other workwear brands. (A friend once told me her theory on the proper way to wear a DvF wrap dress: go up two sizes and wear them backwards.) In any event, I was happy when I saw this simple sheath dress with a criss crossy detail at the waist. A work-appropriate neckline and hem length, all combined with that luxurious ponte DvF uses? Sign me up. The dress also comes in a bright blue, in sizes 0-14, for $398. Diane von Furstenberg ‘Evita' Sleeveless Ponte Fit & Flare Dress
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
KT
Ugh, love DVF, but her wrap dresses are too slim for my crazy pear shape–I always need a fuller skirt, like Kiyonna’s essential wrap dress.
This pick is gorgeous anyway–I’m just weird about bare arms in the workplace, but that’s my weird oddity.
Cat
Yes! For the first time in awhile, I think this pick is a home run. Flattering and unique but not so memorable you can’t wear it once a week. And no big ugly zipper down the back!
emeralds
I really like this as well!
anon
me too
MKB
LOVE. But sadly out of my price range. (Unsurprisingly for a Monday pick!)
Anon in NYC
Same!
underwear
I posted last week about hating underwear, and one person asked me if I’m wearing the right size. After a thorough review of all my underwear, I’ve concluded that they’re too small. Just because I’m a really small person does not, in fact, mean that my rear is similarly small. It isn’t. So I’ve ordered underwear in larger sizes and am interested to see how it goes. Thanks all!
Catlady
Have you tried Hanky Panky underwear? It fits my big athletic butt and wide hips really well. All other underwear sucks in comparison, at least for my body shape.
underwear
I just ordered some and have high hopes. Do you wear the same size in Hanky Panky as you would have worn before or did you need to size up or down?
anon
The HP stretch lace thongs are one size fits most and fit me well at all sizes (size has ranged from an 8-12). I like original rise because I have a high waist.
Catlady
Yeah I think they’re all the same size. I have both the low and high rise thongs and they’re very comfortable.
underwear
I just ordered a range of sizes and it just occurred to me- do stores (Nordstrom in this case) allow people to return underwear? Unworn, obviously.
Anonymous
Yes, Nordstrom does at least.
Ginjury
Nordstrom likely does since they accept just about any returns. Just make sure you try them on over underwear and let the sales associate know that they are definitely unworn.
Anne Elliott
I like this pick but hate ponte. I’d rather spend a bit more on Boss dresses.
KT
This is blasphemy to me :) I live in ponte because I am lazy, somehow always wrinkle any other fabric and need to be able to wash it.
AIMS
I’m sorry, KT, I also hate ponte.
I do think that like other synthetics, not all ponte is created equal but I still prefer my work dresses to be seasonless wool, esp. at this price point.
Mindy
+1
I find ponte or anything else not tropical/seasonless wool to pill at some point and get misshapen.
Bonnie
I’ve never had any pilling with any of my DVF ponte. Stuff wears like iron.
waffles
I have a DVF ponte dress, probably 3-4 years old and it is definitely pilling. Very disappointed because I LOVE that dress! It seems especially bad where my purse would wear against the side of the dress.
Anne Elliott
Seasonless/tropical weight wool never wrinkles, in my experience. Try it!
Anonymous
Hahahaha. Yeah sure. It wrinkles driving to work for me and is itchy
Legally Brunette
I love ponte too! No wrinkles ever. But I agree with others that some of the cheaper ponte pills easily. I’ve had really good luck with Vince Cauto and Eliza J ponte dresses — nice, thick fabric.
First Time Home Buyer Nerves
Guys, why is buying a house so nerve wrecking? We are in the market for a home in the DC Metro area. Prices seems outrageous but I thought that’s how they have always been. Now everyone keeps predicting that we are in a bubble and homes in the DC suburbs will come down. So what, do we just sit tight for several years hoping for a better deal? Do we buy now and the hope the bubble doesn’t burst? We have outgrown our current rental and would really like our own home – are these just first time homebuyer nerves or what?
anne-on
Can you afford a home now? Do you have an appropriate down payment (at least 20% to avoid PMI?) Are you able to qualify for one of the better rates? If so, I’d go ahead and buy. Yes, prices may fall, but I doubt they’ll plummet too much – they rarely do in truly hot metropolitan areas.
If you’re already overextending yourself it may pay to rent for another few years – maybe somewhere cheaper so you can save more?
Anonymous
Whether a bubble exists matters only depending on how long you plan to own the house. If you’re looking to buy a “starter home” (such an absurd term) and upgrade in 5 years, it might be a bad time. If you’re thinking 20 years it might be fine.
Meg Murry
Yes, this. If you are either thinking this will be a “starter home” or that your career may require you to move in the next 5 years, I’d be wary. If you are going to completely wipe out your emergency fund to by a house that you can only afford the payments on you and your partner both stay at your current salary levels, that would be a risky move – because bubbles often pop at the same time as economic downturns. Not sure about the DC area specifically, but based on the last bubble, I’d guess that the close in DC suburbs will probably continue to hold their value (or close to it) but if you are talking about a far flung suburb with a long or convoluted commute into DC, that may be more likely to have the bubble burst than a closer in area.
But if you are looking at a place that you plan to stay in for the next 10-15 years that you could afford even if you had a job loss, then yes, it stinks to have bought at the height of a bubble, but it won’t really matter, other than the slight psychological blow.
Bonnie
The bubble rumor has been around for years. We bought our house in D.C. 12 years ago and it has never decreased in value. If you plan to be in the house for a while, just buy now. No sense in renting for years if you can build equity.
anon-oh-no
really? Because literally the entire country had a real estate bubble burst in 2008/2009. Only in the last 2-3 years are most markets on the upswing. I find it hard to believe that any house in the country could have gone without losing value. That said, if you were not looking to sell it, you may not have been aware that it lost value.
Anonymous
I think that the DC bubble was in things they are making more of: new developments out by Dulles, infill developments that are a bit of mismatch for their surroundings (esp. if there is more infill development on the way). Those may be be tough to unload b/c you will always be competing against something new that’s just as close / far out.
Condo in Roslyn, SF house in Falls Church proper: probably not so risky (but that’s why they are so expensive)
Anonymous
I’m looking at a condo in Shirlington. The owners bought in 2007 and it’ll sell for what they paid for it back then – no appreciation. (They haven’t done a thing to it, so it’s just 9 years older now.)
anon
Really. I grew up in the DC area and the market there stayed stable during the downturn in 2008/2009. Federal government bubble
Been there done that
As someone who bought a home in a close in suburb of DC several years ago (in 2006) and then later sold it for a loss, you’re right to worry. It was a starter home, 5 minute walk to metro, almost brand new, etc. In other words, no reason to think we wouldn’t have got our money back.
May be easier to give advice if you can say exactly where in the DC metro area you are looking.
Catlady
I scored the ultimate handbag deal this weekend. An Alexander Wang Rocco for $100 at TJ Maxx. It’s black, light gold hardware that almost looks silver, and it’s perfect. That is all.
AIMS
Amazing.
Goosebumpy
I am unspeakably jealous.
Goatsgoatsgoats
Congratulations, that’s amazing! Do you mind me asking where? I’ve often found that the TJ Maxx near my parents in the suburbs tend to significantly mark down the trendier things.
Catlady
In Bridgewater, NJ. There were DOZENS of Kate Spade bags there. They also have a pretty large “The Runway” section with Vince and Theory and whatnot, which I think is picking up where our dear departed Loehmann’s left off.
Gwendolyn
Awesome!
I too had a lucky find – DvF Bethany pumps for $50 at Marshalls. I never go to these discount stores and decided to pop in on a whim, and am glad I did!
AIMS
So I attempted a version of cleaning out my closet this weekend. Started off thinking I will toss/donate anything I haven’t worn in more than a year, anything that I don’t love, etc. But I ended up not getting rid of nearly as much as I thought I would and it’s not because I love everything I kept.
What do you do about those tartan pajama pants you only wear around the winter holidays or the soft tee shirts you really don’t love and don’t necessarily need but that are good for lounging around the house sick. How many can i keep? What about dresses that you probably don’t wear but that are left over from when you had a wedding every other weekend in the summer in your late 20s/early 30s? I feel like I want to basically create a capsule wardrobe of only things I love that more or less work together but there are a bit too many (a) good-enough-staples and (b) might-come-in-handy’s in my closet. Can Stacy and Clinton just come over and help me?
ITDS
Keep the tartan pajamas if it’s only 1 set. If it’s 4 sets choose the best one and trash the rest. Keep 2 sets of whatever you wear when lounging around sick. If you’ve got 6 sets, trash the rest. Do the wedding guest dresses fit? If not perfectly, get rid of them. Keep any that a) fit perfectly b) are fairly neutral so you can play with the accessories.
anonshmanon
plus, try the dresses on and see whether you still feel good in them. They might still fit technically, but is your personal taste still the same?
emeralds
I’m a ruthless closet culler, and I decide ahead of time how many of X piece it’s reasonable for me to own. I then make myself pick out my favorite two pairs of PJ bottoms, my favorite ten grungy event or race t-shirts, my favorite ten casual t-shirts, etc. Everything else goes. Moving forward, it’s a one-in, one-out policy, so anything that comes in has to “beat” an existing item or fill a pre-identified hole. I have more clothes than your prototypical capsule wardrobe because I like variety, but my closet more or less maintains itself at this point and I wear almost everything in it on a regular basis.
anon8
When I have clothes that I’m not sure about, I’ll pack them away in a box and put them in another room. The clothes are still avaialble in case I need them, but then if I still ahven’t worn those in a year, then I give them away.
I say keep the pajama pants and soft shirts. Those things are like comfort food for me, especially when I’m not feeling well or want to feel cozy in the winter.
Anonymous
Girl what. You GET RID OF ALL THAT CRAP. That is how you clean a closet. If you don’t love it, need it, or wear it, you must get rid of it. Or don’t bother cleaning at all.
Anonymous
This is very good advice..
Bonnie
For hanging around the house clothing, I designated one bin and only let myself keep whatever fit in the bin. With regard to the dresses, I’d seriously think about whether they are still in style and are age-appropriate. I tossed a bunch of dresses that were still in great shape and only worn to the occasional wedding but that I’d aged out of.
2 Cents
Sounds like you need your most critical, honest friend to come over to help you. The one who asks if those shirts you want to wear out of the house are truly not pilled, will call your bluff on things you’re “going to get repaired, I swear” or stuff that looked good in the dressing room but not so much after you got home. It’s hard to be self-critical when it comes to clothes because you may have emotions attached to them. An “outsider” doesn’t have those hangups.
Runner 5
I allow myself just one set of comfy jogging pants, just one holidays-only dress (an Asos skater dress with a reindeer print!), etc.
Senior Attorney
It’s gotten a lot of press and has gotten a little culty, but Marie Kondo’s The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up is a great, if radical, system for getting rid of your crap. Basically, she says to get rid of anything that doesn’t “spark joy.” I did my clothes this weekend and it really works!
Minnie Beebe
This , times 1000! Basically, pull everything out of your closet and drawers. Yes, everything. Go through the items one by one, and only return the items that you truly love (i.e. the things that “spark joy”) This may mean that you keep 500 items, or it may mean that you keep only 10. Either way, you’ll be left with only the things that make you happy.
Women's leadership
Hive, I volunteered to help plan the women’s mentoring sessions (think one hour, regular thing) at my company. I’m sure many of you have attended many of these sessions. What are the standouts for you? What was actually engaging and helpful? What wasn’t?
Catlady
Are they one on one or group? I’ve done both and I found the group sessions to be more useful. We could all share our professional challenges and were frequently surprised when a lot of of shared the same experiences.
Women's leadership
All group. At least 40 people.
Anonymous
The best things in my experience have been specific examples of things to say in different situations.
Example: People always tell you to ask for feedback, but that can be hard to do. Say, “What ended up happening with such and such case, the one I wrote the memo for?” And that can open the door to a conversation.
life
We would have Mentors come and give their “story” of how they got to where they are, over a group casual lunch. Initially, the stories were too polished and made it look like these Mentors were blessed and had perfect straight trajectories/lives/husbands/successes without any impediments. It was only when we asked questions did we get the truth and really practical advice that we could go home with.
I would encourage your Mentors to speak about the challenges/failures/problems so that they don’t make the rest of us feel like we can never get to where they are. We all learn from our mis-steps, and sometimes things are out of our control. And life is often a compromise.
The most helpful Mentor was one who finally “admitted” that although her work life seemed amazing, her relationships with her children were poor and she felt like a failure every day. If she was in the lab too much, she felt she was failing her patients, if she was in the OR too much she felt like she was failing her kids by not taking them to school, if she took time off on the weekend, she felt like she was failing writing her grants etc…
This instantly made her seem human.
Meg Murry
Yes, this. You don’t have to reveal every skeleton in your closet, but be honest that you aren’t perfect. Also, if you have them, you can tell stories of the paths not taken – people that you started your career with that diverged into different paths. If you took a more twisting path, or if you thought you wanted to do A but then you got the opportunity to do B instead, say that.
When you say “at least 40 people” – does that mean you are presenting in front of the room? Is it a panel of other women serving as mentors, or are you it, with 40+ younger colleagues watching you talk? Is there any kind of time where you could break into smaller groups, so you could have more small group conversations with a few people, or coffee/drinks after where people could talk to you? I might be intimidated to ask a question in front of the whole group, but really benefit to having a smaller follow-up conversation with you with 3-10 people.
Anonymous
Can I make a plea that the sessions don’t treat women like we’re all the same and all have the same goals and ambitions? Sure, it can have features of “Lean In” but also talk about how the company works with and supports women who don’t want to be the CEO one day. The most frustrating experience I’ve had at these types of sessions is the broad brush with which all women seem to get painted rather than the acknowledgement that, like men, women want different things out of their careers.
SW
In the same vein, but from a different perspective, please please please don’t have any of the initial sessions focus on “work/life balance,” which is inevitably code for having kids. (I am a mom of two, fwiw. I just hate to see this topic dominate affinity group meetings.)
anonshmanon
I had a group coaching session where difficult situations that the women brought up were practiced as role-play. The focus was on communication styles and charting the unknown territory of assertive behavior.
Example: A colleague wanted her higher-up to approve a piece she had written, but he kept promising to read it ‘next week’. They practiced how she should convey to him that he was delaying this process with serious consequences. After a couple tries, her message got clearer and clearer.
The important part was the feedback at this point, when she said she found herself extremely rude, but the audience had experienced the interaction as entirely professional.
Anonymous
I think that’s a great idea.
Women's leadership
That sounds EXACTLY like what I”m looking for. Was this coaching session provided by someone? Would you mind pointing me in that direction?
Anonshmanon
This was done by a professional coach focusing on women’s behavioral and communications patterns that hold them back in male-dominated workplaces. She was definitely worth her money. This was in Germany though, so I guess you wont be able to hire her. Sigrid Meuselbach is her name, her book is rather similar to NGDGTCO.
For the role play she even brought along a stand-in alpha male to make it more realistic. But the most valuable part imo was that feedback of how you see yourself vs how others perceive you. For that you don’t neccessarily need a coach.
MKB
I’m putting together a mentoring program right now, and found this to be really helpful: https://www.ncwit.org/resources/mentoring-box-technical-women-work
RDC
My thought would be to make it as practical as possible, and not necessarily “woman-specific.” What are common challenges in your field? Writing proposals, drafting your annual evaluation, difficult conversations with bosses or subordinates? Handling challenging clients? I’d ask different speakers from within your company provide talks with practical tips.
anon
I’ll be starting a job soon that requires travel almost every week. I have a good carry-on rolling suitcase, but the only smaller bag that I have (besides a smallish purse) is a ratty outoor-style backpack that has seen its better days. What kind of smaller bag do people who travel a lot usually use? Just a purse? A larger tote? I’m guessing a backpack will look too juvenile, especially since I’m young.
Anonymous
I love my Lo and Sons for this. The OG fits under the seat in front of me, holds my laptop and other stuff safely, and I like how it slips over the handle of my suitcase.
anon in SV
I adore my OG. Five years old, dozens of trips, holds a TON, and still going strong.
nylon girl
3rd the OG. Got it this year since as the only female in my group, I had 3 carry-on bags. This bag makes my life easier and I can tuck a very small purse/clutch in to use for dinner/after work events.
Mindy
Cue the longchamp. lightweight, folds down and is polished enough to look professional.
A
What’s your rolling suitcase look like, and how often do you travel? I am a lawyer who does mostly 1-3 night trips, and use different arrangements depending on the setting and length of trip. My pieces are:
– maximum size rollerboard (which more and more gets gatechecked) – for 2 or more night stays
– smaller rollerboard (typically brought on board with me) – for 1-2 nights
– For personal bag, either (a) the bigger L&O OG bag for larger personal item; or (b) smaller Kate Spade or other medium sized purse – needs to fit my laptop, typically documents, chargers, wallet, phone.
I’d think through your most likely travel scenarios and how much space you’ll need. The L&O bags are very smartly designed for travel, so you may want to look into the OG or smaller OMG (or other bags I’m less familiar with).
anne-on
Do you have to carry your laptop? I like the dagne dover leather bag (the charlie) but the Lo&sons brookline and the regular dagne dover were also good (and slightly lighter). Depends on your usual outfits, but I LOVE having the tumi rolling garment bag for travel, I pretty much live in dresses/blazers and its great for those. I’ve gotten 3 dresses, 3 blouses, ankle pants, pjs, undies, brushes, toiletries, an extra scarf and 2 pairs of shoes in there no problem. I’m also lucky enough to be able to travel alone so I usually wear jeans/my heaviest pair of shoes on the plane.
Carrie M
has your dagne dover leather bag held up well? I’m considering getting one for work.
An
Mine has held up very well, no cracking along the handles even though I am not gentle with it. As a warning, it is a little heavy on your shoulder. I found it uncomfortable for the first week or two.
anne-on
Very well. I am not gentle with it, travel maybe 2-3x/month and it is still really gorgeous looking. I frequently get asked about it from other women in the office. It is much heavier than a nylon tote, but I was looking for something more luxe looking, so a nice leather was a key feature for me. It does not zip closed on top, but that wasn’t a deal breaker for me. It is quite large under an airplane seat, just FYI.
Bonnie
A nylon tote with pockets that you can put under the seat in front of you. Something like this: http://www.6pm.com/lesportsac-everygirl-tote-black
anon OP
Thanks all. One more question- does it look weird if my rolling suitcase and personal item don’t match? Like black and navy? The suitcase is black, but for most things I find black a little too stark and would like to get navy instead.
Anonymous
Nope.
Mariah
If you had any of the pretty bags mentioned above, or even just a good carry on, the only thing I would be doing is trying to figure out which bag it is without creepily asking you. Would not notice navy/black at all.
Runner 5
Remember your carry on suitcase can get gatechecked so it’s good practice to use as your personal item a bag that fits your laptop/ any medications/ etc – and that zips so you can put it under the seat in front of you. I flew with my new Radley Maddox Street bag for the first time last week and found it perfect for that use.
An
Your carryon will be your laptop, I assume. Get a very good case for your laptop – either backpack or one you can put over your shoulder. I use a laptop tote that holds my wristlet (and phones) for ease. I used to bring both the laptop case and a purse, but it got annoying. I also have a rolling laptop case with a small packing section that I use for short trips (overnight, etc) so that I only need one bag.
I usually bring along a cloth tote bag inside, so that I can have a bag to hold my stuff (wristlet, water, snacks, kindle, etc) at my plane seat when I want to put the other bag in the overhead rather than under the seat in front of me. If I don’t want to use it, it’s tiny and can fit in my laptop bag with ease.
Gail the Goldfish
I have to take my laptop, so my personal item is a laptop bag with a strap that can slide over the handle of my little wheeled boarding bag so the bag just sits on top of the suitcase, because even a light laptop gets heavy to carry on one shoulder as you’re sprinting through an airport. My laptop bag is a Samsonite and shockingly roomy.
ChiLaw
For me, having a laptop tote that has a strap/sleeve to attach it to my rolling bag is essential. I have a baggallini bag that’s nylon (light weight, wears well so far!) with lots of pockets and the aforementioned luggage sleeve. It’s called “a la carte.” It isn’t a statement bag by any stretch of the imagination, but I love that if I have to go right from the airport to a meeting I can roll up looking put together, without a bag twisting around and bumping things as I maneuver my luggage. I have it in a nice grey color that goes with most of my clothes.
Marie
Iove my Baggallinni A La Carte,for exactly those reasons. I had one for five years before the handle broke. Replaced it with exactly the same thing, I loved it so much. Good budget option in comparison to others mentioned in this thread.
Marie
That was supposed to be “I love my . . . ” Editing error, sorry!
Anonymous
TUMI is what I use. Zips on top, attaches to suitcase, lasts forever, and looks incredibly professional (which is for me where lo & sons fails miserably).
Simplify
Amen. Love my Tumi carry on with luggage sleeve and Tumi roller bag.
Anonymous
Can someone refer me to some literature about chemical v. mineral sunscreen? Or give me some facts about it. I would like to know which is better and by how much.
anon8
The blog 15 Minute Beauty Fanatic did a post a while back about chemical vs. physical sunscreen. I also like her Sunscreen 101 posts. Links to follow.
anon8
http://www.15minutebeauty.com/2011/06/what-im-looking-for-in-sunscreen.html
http://www.15minutebeauty.com/search/label/Sunscreen%20101?&max-results=20
Anonymous
I tend to think the best sunscreen is whatever you are going to wear always and reapply often. For me that is a mix.
Bonnie
A lot of this is going to depend on your skin. The chemical blockers deal better with sweat and water but are tougher on your skin. My dermatologist said that many people have an allergy or sensitivity to their main component (avobenzone).
Potomac Ave SE
Also – if you’re swimming in the open water (ocean, etc.), chemical sunscreens have been shown to harm coral reefs and other aquatic plantlife.
Not as much of a problem if you’re at a pool or just outside, but if you’re at the beach I really recommend looking at mineral blockers.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/20/450276158/chemicals-in-sunscreen-are-harming-coral-reefs-says-new-study
Anonymous
Mineral sunscreens are better than chemical, but still not good for reefs. If you’re going snorkeling, the best thing you can do is wear a wetsuit so you only have to apply sunscreen on a very small portion of your body (face, neck, hands and feet).
Potomac Ave SE
Totally agree.
I feel like that’s a lot harder of a sell though.
nutella
Has anyone here purchased a watch secondhand online? I am looking for a Cartier watch on something like theRealReal or similar place and am wondering if anyone has had any experience – good, bad, other suggestions? Would love to hear if you have!
Ellen
Yay Kat! I love DVF dresses and this is one of them. I just need to be abel to maintain my tuchus b/f I will spend $398 on another one. But dad said HE would pay for it if I bought it AND was abel to wear it for 3 month’s. That is 100% reimbursement! YAY Dad! This is a no loose proposition!
As for the OP, do what I do. Go to the Cartier store IN PERSON (Fifth Avenue and I think 52nd) and look around, and inquire about second hand watches. They will show you what they have, which are usueally in great shape (but NOT cheep). Once you get the lay of the land, you know what to compare to. Then, investigate ON LINE, but DO NOT buy on LINE, b/c there are alot of fake’s out there. Once you see that, go back to Cartier, and if you found a decent used one, buy it. OTHERWISE, buy a new one and you will NEVER regret it. YAY!!!!!
Elizabeth
I haven’t. I don’t know where you live, but many small independent jewelers have secondhand Cartier or Rolex. Esp. places that specialize in watch repair. (around here, anyway; smallish New England city.) I’d really want to see what I was buying.
LondonLeisureYear
Reading “All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood” and about 60% done with it. Anyone else read it and want to discuss about it? I don’t have kids yet (but teach and am exposed to lots of children) and find the whole thing super depressing and interesting.
Frozen Peach
I have read it and would be happy to discuss, now on the other side of becoming parents.
LondonLeisureYear
I guess one question is – There are a lot of studies and research mentioned in the book, all very interesting, but a far bit of them pretty depressing especially on how mothers are affected by parenthood compared to fathers. Do you find any of the studies relatable? Anything that you do to avoid falling into any of the traps she mentions?
Anon
I haven’t read the book so can only guess what this motherhood v. fatherhood stuff is about. I was talking with a friend who is considering getting pregnant soon about that this weekend. Her husband is kind of pressuring her and I told her to remember that it affects her more in the short-term than it does him. But he reality is…it has to affect the woman more. She must grow and birth the baby and that’s hard on a woman’s body and mind. If she chooses to breastfeed that an additional thing that no one else can help with. We as woman can’t expect to bring life into the world and then no expect it to affect a woman’s life more than a man. It’s just the way life is! Expect your life as a woman to change, if you don’t want it to change, don’t have children!
Said by woman with 1.5 year old twins who significantly downsized her career to work 3/4 time. Working full time during the first year would have most certainly killed me.
Anonymous
I haven’t gotten all the way through it yet but I know that having kids totally sideswiped me mentally. I didn’t feel like myself again until 2 years out. (I thought it would be different with my second, but no.) Motherhood is like surviving an earthquake or something, it’s crazy and crazy and crazy and then one day you kind of find your groove but nothing is where you left it.
I’ve known very few fathers who feel like this, but lots of mothers.
Anonymous
I’ve had this book on my list for a while and am picking it up from the library this week; would love to discuss further after I’ve finished!
But for now: I had this conversation – our lives will both fundamentally change as parents, but mine will change way more, and the societal expectation/pressure on fathers is not even on the same plane as that on mothers, so I need you to understand all of that and be 100% in this including supporting ME, not just helping out with the future kids – with my husband when we were considering kids. We had both always wanted kids, but he honestly had not thought about it that way and was pretty defensive at first that I would even suggest that he would somehow be less involved or less invested (mistakenly thinking I saw that as a choice he would make, not just a fact of life). He had never been part of conversations that included “mommy track” or working mother judgement, or realized that there is an entire industry and blogosphere seemingly designed to induce neuroticism/competition among mothers. Say nothing of considering the very real physical toll of pregnancy and breastfeeding and their potential impact on workplace productivity, and the emotional/mental strain (both hormone-related and otherwise). Motherhood vs fatherhood is apples and oranges for the first few years after conception. I can’t speak beyond that, since my kids are still in preschool.
It was a good conversation to have, though. I mean, our partnership isn’t perfect, but airing all of that out (not least the fact that I was concerned about it) beforehand gave us a better starting point, and we’ve worked through the changes parenthood’s brought pretty well. I still think my life has changed more than my husband’s has, but I totally recognize I’ve done a lot of that to myself. We’re pretty laid back parents, he’s very involved and supportive, and I try to recognize when I’m being a martyr and cut it out. But it really is tough. That said, I love my kids and being a mom, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Mrs. Jones
I have one small child and found a lot of (depressing) truth in that book. It’s one of the few I’d recommend to parent and parents-to-be.
CPA Lady
What is the premise of the book?
anon
Basically that the demands of modern parenting (meaning the extended period in which kids are now not active members of the household, the “activities” children are expected to do and the rise of the 2 income household just to afford schooling and enrichment) have turned the activity of parenting into a stressful chore/full-time second-shift job rather than the natural part of life that parenting used to be. It looks at all the phenomena that cause people to engage in this type of intensive parenting, mainly, concerns about social mobility and ensuring that one’s children don’t slip out of the social class they were raised in.
Anon
I feel like people do so much keeping up with the Joneses that they create the need for a 2 income household. I work because I want to, not because I need to, but we also have lifestyle that allows this. We never upgraded our house/cars when we started making more money. This allowed us to save $600k before our children were born. If we need to dig into saving, no big deal. I’ll never understand why people must drive a brand new car and have a brand new house, but then they can’t sleep at night due to money. Your kids don’t care what kind of house/car they have, all they care about is that their basic needs are met and they are loved. And they don’t need to be in 4 different activities that cost a fortune, what they need most is your time.
Anonymous
Here’s a thought- lots of us need to have both parents work AND ALSO drive cheap old cars and live in small old houses.
Anonymous
… I don’t think I even took home $600k in the years before my children were born, let alone had it left over to save. So there’s that.
The two-income trap is a real thing, but I don’t think “keeping up with the Joneses” explains all of it. At least in my HCOLA, our mortgage goes more toward being in a decent school district and reasonable commuting distance to our jobs than the actual awesomeness (it is not awesome) of the house itself. Our newer car is because 3 car seats fit much more easily in a minivan than a sedan. Neither of those would be a factor if we chose to remain childless. I don’t stay up at night worrying about money, but we’re definitely not living the carefree DINK life anymore. Plus, childcare costs are insane in many cities — I think people just as often “create the need” for a 1-income household by having more than one kid and being unable to justify childcare to continue earning their current salary. Just not the ones who frequent this s1te.
Little Red
There’s a pretty big assumption that we all make enough money so that saving $600K is even possible.
Anon
My husband and I make pretty average professional salaries. $190k combined. We lived off one salary for about 6 years before we had children. We like frugally but have a pretty bad ass life. Check out Mr. Money Mustache!
Anonymous
190k combined is not average. Check your privilege.
Anon
I said average professional salaries. Not average salaries in general. I think most of the readers here make a lot more than we do based on what I’ve seen here. Let’s poll the audience here – how much do you make separate and jointly?
Aunt Jamesina
I think the issue is that your first comment was about people *in general* trying to keep up with the Joneses. You’re now reframing it to be strictly about professionals. Fine, for professionals making around $200k per year in most parts of the country, having children means you have a lot of latitude in lifestyle choices and can choose to live more frugally. For most people, those things you listed aren’t choices.
Anon
No kids yet, but I read it a few years ago and it’s stuck with me as we’re contemplating TTC soon. The studies in the majority of the book almost talked me out of having kids entirely, until the last chapter, which made me cry.
LondonLeisureYear
Oh good! I will hold out till the end. Right now at 60% done I am depressed so the fact it will turn around is great news!
First Date Issue
Ladies, I need your advice on online dating and first dates. I recently started online dating after a 7 year relationship and have realized that I’m pretty cold and standoffish during first dates/meeting. I guess I didn’t realize how bad it was until I started this. I don’t think it’s especially awkward, but I feel like I’m definitely not giving off the “I like you” vibe even when I do like the guy. As a result, I’ve yet to even be asked on a second date. Any tips for getting over this and warming up to guys faster?
Anonymous
I force it. If I enjoyed meeting him and had fun I make sure to say at the end “this was so much fun! I really enjoyed meeting you. Let’s do it again sometime.”
I also try and open up my body language. Lean into him a bit, maybe brush his arm.
nutella
Yep, I was very very veeeeeeeerryy shy and did this- always ended with “Thank you so much, I really had fun!” with a smile. While your date is talking, be sure to smile, nod, and actively listen. I think you will find that your date will open up more and you will genuinely both have a better time. Also consider that online dates are an opportunity for you to be fully yourself- not the you at work, not the you you were with your ex, not the you from childhood your bff remembers while not knowing the mature you. If you geek out over something, be open about it. If you are silly, be yourself. The worst that happens is they think “meh, she was kind of a dork” and you don’t get asked out but that’s ok, because ultimately you want second dates with people who are buying what you’re selling.
life
Could you try asking the guys you are vaguely interested in for the second date, instead of waiting for them to ask? Just in case they assumed you were not interested and are unconsciously avoiding rejection themselves…
And maybe try to think of a scenario where you might relax a bit more to “be yourself”, and suggest that for the second date. Like maybe it is a lunch, then walk to a favorite place… or bowling/something fun and silly… or some other simple shared activity?
Ginjury
Yeah, I’m definitely open to asking, but I’d really like to avoid making them think I’m not interested in them in the first place. I’m just naturally reserved and sarcastic so I have trouble with this.
Ginjury
In case it wasn’t clear, I’m the OP.
Dahlia
I used to text the guy the next day to say thank you for the date. Just a simple “Just wanted to say thanks for last night, I had a great time!”
99% of the time they followed this up with a suggestion for a repeat date.
life
I hear you. It is pretty hard to try to change your fundamental personality… especially in such a stressful situation as a first date. I am similar to you. And while I like the other suggestion of trying to make a few “gestures” during the date that convey interest….. that isn’t me and might come off as awkward.
So I think you just have to say it. At the end of the date, say something clear that conveys you had a good time. I like the follow-up text stating clearly that you’d like to see him again. And I like the idea of being proactive about asking for the second date.
CountC
For better or for worse, I tend to joke about my quirks so that the other person knows they are just that, quirks, and not necessarily a reflection on them. Since you are already sarcastic, as am I, this might come easier to you than others.
I also agree with you suggesting the second date and doing some follow-up.
Veronica Mars
Are you following up with the “I had a nice time, let’s do X sometime soon” text after the date? Regardless of what you say on the date, I think of that as the pretty obvious green light. If you’re just doing radio silence, then that’s probably why.
Ginjury
I’ve only been on a handful of dates so far and haven’t yet, primarily because I’m not even sure if I had a nice time and want to do it again and I can’t tell if that’s just because I’m awkward and take a while to warm up to people or what.
Anonymous
I push for a second date unless my reaction was “God I hate him.”
Ginjury
What do you mean when you say you “push for a second date?” Do you ask for one or just send a simple “I had a nice time meeting you and would love to do it again sometime!” message?
I know I’m way overthinking it, but this is all so foreign since my last relationship started when I was in college.
Anonymous
I ask!
bridget
Your goal on a first date is to weed out the nutjobs. If he’s not a nutjob, if there aren’t long term compatibility issues (religion, kids, etc), and you did not find yourself glancing at your watch, then you had a nice enough time to warrant a second date.
Just take it one date at a time. The sure path to failure is expecting too much out of a first or second date.
Anon
I instituted a 2 date policy when I was online dating. I tried to be open to at least 2 dates with any guy (unless he was horrible) before I made a judgment about relationship potential.
Veronica Mars
If you decide that you want a second date, do send the text. It’s a clear sign to the guy that the ball is back in his court.
Ginjury
This is really helpful. Thanks, all!
New question: what’s my window for requesting a second date? One to two days?
Anonymous
Whenever? I try and follow up within a week. There are no rules here.
Anonymous
Check your body language! There are a bunch of videos out there for how to change your body language if you want to attract people in general.
DatingAnon
This is so me. I’m normally a loving, engaging, enthusiastic person, but I find it hard to be so with someone who is still essentially a complete stranger on a first date. Here are a couple of the things that worked for me.
1. Short dates (happy hour, coffee, etc). I agree with the poster who said first dates are to weed out nutjobs. Thus, there’s no need for a full dinner and/or activity date. It’s a lot easier to fake/feign enthusiasm/flirtatiousness if you know the date is an hour max.
2. Alcohol. Not a lot and of course know your own limits, but after one drink, I’m more to the normal level of engaging instead of my natural cold/standoffish first date personna. See again my preference for happy hour dates above.
3. 1001 questions to ask before you get married books. Okay, obviously you are not looking to marry him on the first date. But having a couple of interesting, deeper than what’s your favorite movie/what do you do for a living questions in your back pocket can not only make you seem more engaged, it can also ease any fears about what to do if conversation fails. That NYT article about the 36 questions that lead you to love is also a good source for these types of questions/conversation starters.
As to the when to follow up, in my market (large southeastern city), it seems pretty customary to send a text within two days. Sending a text a week later would likely be ignored, since the guy would have assumed you ghosted. I think this is a highly regional thing though.
Mary Claire
I am still dating the first guy I met online so I haven’t had much practice, but he told me he couldn’t tell if I was enjoying myself on our first date. I was though! I thought we were having fun and good conversation, but he said he wasn’t sure if I was into him until I reached to hold his hand when we were walking out of the restaurant.
Anon
Any Weight Watchers pros/cons? I’m looking to lose 20-25 pounds and have some accountability. I’d look to do the online version and get serious about eating more fruits/veggies while still getting my occasional chocolate fix. Exercise doesn’t seem to be a problem for me, so it’s more about eating correctly!
Ginjury
Honestly, I tried WW when I only had about 10lbs to lose and I feel like it totally screwed up my relationship with food. Everything became “good” or “bad” and assigning numerical values to every thing I put in my mouth was not healthy. I did lose the weight, but that level of tracking isn’t sustainable, so I eventually stopped and gained about 20lbs.
I think if you really want to lose weight, you should just make a concerted effort to eat more mindfully and incorporate more vegetables into your diet. That’s a lot less likely to do permanent damage to your eating habits.
Anonymous
I’d suggest maybe seeing a nutritionist (may be covered by your insurance/EAP) over weight watchers. I didn’t have a lot of success on WW, especially the new one, and found myself manipulating the system. A dietician will get you some accountability, some education and some individualized suggestions on what works for you.
I’ve been following the RP Strength diet (and yes, they own the fact that it is a diet) for a couple months and I’ve had a lot of success on that. YMMV but if you already exercise, you might like looking in to it. Their mentality is definitely more “focus, lose the weight, then take a break” than the “slow and steady” approach, which I prefer (abstainer vs moderator).
LondonLeisureYear
Can you think of any little switches you can make?
-less sugar in coffee
-sparkling water instead of soda
-healthier afternoon snack
Sometimes its really surprising how just a little change like, only drinking 2 nights a week instead of a glass of wine every night can really cut down on calories and make a big change.
X
I’m doing something called the iDiet. You can buy the book online. It’s high fiber, high protein and developed by a professor in the nutrition school at Tufts University.
I’ve lost 13 pounds in 9 weeks. I have fruits and veggies (cherries, berries, broccoli, green beans, etc) plus meat and fish. You can have dark chocolate for dessert and I don’t feel hungry. It’s really working for me.
Wordy
I had great success with the iDiet. Lost about 25 pounds. I transitioned off it because following it closely I felt like I was eating all the time. However, I have continued to use the recipes and follow her principles and have kept most of the weight off.
WW'er
I lost 50 lbs on WW (points plus program, not the new smart points program), and thought it was great. It requires a lot of discipline given that you’re doing it on your own/online. But I was extremely pleased with it. I’m about to re-up and lose the last 20-25, hopefully, with the new smart points program. The only way you’ll experience success is if you are committed 100% – every drop of food you put in your mouth needs to get tracked. They now have a scanner you can use to scan barcodes which makes it so.much.easier. to make on-the-fly decisions in the grocery store than when I did it 5 years ago.
It did make me permanently re-set your thinking about food. My initial weight loss was 5+ years ago and I still think about food in terms of “points.” I don’ think that it is “unhealthy” that I have this new relationship with food – it’s actually far healthier than my pre-WW relationship. Good luck!
WW'er
One more thought… as someone who struggles with food and who has tried a lot of plans before, I really liked WW because there was no elimination and it is highly sustainable. I could/can still eat a little of everything. It’s all about moderation and healthy choices. Personally, I can’t live a life of high protein/low carb or Paleo (lord, have I tried…). It’s just not realistic or sustainable for me and my life.
Meg Murry
The number 1 thing I really learned in WW was portion size – so if I was going to eat a bowl of cereal, I needed to break out the measuring cups and pour out 1 cup of cereal and 1/2 a cup of milk – and it was a lot smaller than you might think. Eventually I got to the point where I learned which of my bowls were the appropriate size for a serving of cereal, or ice cream, etc – but WW helped a lot with that. The “if you bite it, write it” philosophy also helped me – because I was consciously thinking “is this handful of Hershey’s Kisses worth X points? No, but I think 1 is worth it”, etc.
But I do think I benefited a lot more from the group meetings than just doing it online, and it also helped that I was doing it with a friend, so we were encouraging each other.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to force myself to stay with the WW system, and the next times around I kept falling off the wagon, but I’m trying to get myself back on the food tracking bandwagon.
JEB
I’m currently doing WW (online only). I’ve lost almost 40 pounds since February! I have about 15 more to go. I think of it like a budget. I have a certain number of points, and I can choose how to “spend” them. That usually means I splurge a little on the weekends and tighten up during the week. I often have enough points for a small glass of wine with dinner each night. I like the flexibility that the budgeting allows, and it makes sense to me that if I “spend” heavily on something, I’ll need to tighten up somewhere else.
For me, the tracking itself was also very eye opening and helpful in terms of changing my habits. I didn’t think my eating was that terrible, but it kinda was. I learned that I was rewarding myself with bad food (I just killed it at that hearing…I’ll go get a cookie to celebrate). I was also using bad food as an excuse to get out of the office (I’m bored…I’ll go get a cookie). My meals were fairly healthy, but I had NO IDEA how many extras I was treating myself to on a regular basis. Now, those extras cost me points, so I give them a lot more thought than I used to. And yes, sometimes I still go get that cookie, but it’s an intentional choice. As someone else said, it’s also helped me learn about portion control, especially for things like rice and pasta.
Finally, and most excitingly, my habits are legitimately starting to change. At first, it was hard to eat an apple for a snack rather than a piece of chocolate or some crackers. But as of a couple of months ago, I’m finding myself looking forward to that apple and honestly enjoying it. I never thought I’d be that person who thought “ooh! I’ll have some grapes…yum!” But I’m totally turning into that person! I think that speaks to the sustainability of the WW plan. My habits are actually changing, rather than me just strong-arming myself into eating a certain way and feeling miserable about it. It gives me hope that when I reach my goal, I’ll be able to stay there.
Good luck!
Anonymous
This was my experience with it. I lost 30 lbs in 2013 and have kept them off since then. My ex-H, too!
I might put 5-10 lbs back on when I slip and do the cookie/pizza treats too often like JEB mentioned, so I’ll sign back up for a couple weeks to drop those lbs and remind myself about portion sizes and the proper veggies-to-treats ratio. I think a healthy weight is a lifelong process, so hopping on once or twice a year to put myself back in check is something I’m totally ok with.
That said, I much preferred the previous points plus system to the new smart points system.
Annie
I did WW a few years ago to lose 10 pounds, and I did lose the weight in about 8 weeks. I tried to keep using the program to maintain, but the whole “tracking” thing became too much of a hassle. I didn’t pile the weight back on, but I stopped tracking everything I ate because it just was way too much work. And the program only really works if you track everything. So, I ended up in this off-and-on-tracking stage for 6 months before I finally cancelled.
WW has some good recipes, but I doubt I’ll ever do it again. Since then, when I have a couple of pounds creep on that I want to lose, I do Atkins for a few weeks. I actually much prefer the Atkins. I lose the weight much faster than anything else I’ve tried, and I feel good on it. It’s taught me how to really embrace flavors and to integrate a lot more vegetables into my diet — things that I always do. And while YMMV, I don’t immediately gain weight back on when I start eating carbs again. I only gain a few pounds back if I eat crappy foods for awhile.
Rei Hino
I actually gave up on dieting all together for a while for my mental health, but after my doctor suggested I loose a little I decided to give WW a try. I’ve always had a very complicated relationship with my body (I was an athlete as a teen and then gained a LOT of weight in college). WW is the first diet that both works and hasn’t made me miserable. I’ve lost 30 pounds so far, and plan to keep loosing. You do need to be good about logging, but you can totally be forgiving with yourself and estimate when you’re out and you can’t be sure. I’ve tried deprivation diets, strict calorie counting, and exercising to an unhealthy degree. None of it has worked, and all of it has triggered my issues with food. WW has encouraged me to eat better foods, and I rarely feel hungry. A big bonus for me is that the only person who knows that I’m dieting is my husband, no one else can tell (because WW allows you to eat basically anything in moderation).
I would whole heartedly recommend the online program. You should be warned, however, that the “coaches” that are available to you through the app are not nutritionists. They are people who have lost a lot of weight on WW and they receive very little training. Take their advice with a huge grain of salt (I’ve come across a few that have obviously unhealthy relationships with food). Besides them, the program has been great for loosing weight without spiraling back into the unhealthy habits I worked so hard to break. I’m so happy with it.
Testing
Spamtest123
Family and politics
I’m going to a wedding next week where a much larger amount of my extended family will be than I thought. I’m sure politics will come up between the election and the black lives matter/police crisis in this country. and I’m looking for strategies (and resources on strategies) to diffuse those conversations/tension. I live and work in DC and much of my family is still in the small rural area where they are from, and I’ve had the impression that while they all want to know “what’s the latest in DC” and “how’s life in the big city” (which I’ve actually been asked), there is the mindset that those of us (me + a cousin at NYU Law) who have left the area have been politically brainwashed/influenced. I fall all over the board on various issues and am the first one to say when I’m not educated enough to comment on something.
I don’t mind intelligent debate and discussion, which I have with my immediate family, though we have opposing viewpoints on various issues, but I don’t think that’s how this will go. I don’t really want to participate in conversations that aren’t productive, but it can be hard to disengage on things I feel passionately about. I also don’t want to sit around while they trash X,Y,Z without being informed.
Help?
Anonymous
It is a wedding. Answer how is life in DC with “hot! It’s such a swamp in the summer. So nice to be out here for a weekend. How are you?” It is not an occasion for debate, it is an occasion for “lovely to see you, have to grab a refill on champagne”.
You sound super defensive about your views. It does not matter what you think about politics or what they assume you think.
OP for this
I’m actually not, I feel passionately about a couple issues but I’m not active on any, it rarely comes up with my friends (though occasionally does) – but I know my family’s track record on how they treat these things.
It’s a small event and I’m with these people for a couple days, not just the one wedding event. In hindsight maybe I should have made different scheduling choices but this is where I’m at now.
Anonymous
Trade up and get them to ask when you’re getting married / having a baby???
“Oh, fine. How ARE you, Aunt Ethel? How is that rose garden? Let me get a picture of us together.”
Repeat. Daydrink.
CountC
Honestly, I would get up to refill my drink when these sorts of topics come up. You likely aren’t going to change anyone’s mind, it’s going to be frustrating and possibly cause an issue at an event that shouldn’t be about politics or current events at all, and it’s just not worth it IMO in this particular scenario (especially if there will be drinking).
I get that it’s hard to disengage when you are passionate and that you don’t want to sit around listening to people trash certain individuals or ideologies, but having intellectual and open discussions with people who think you have been politically brainwashed at a wedding is not the time to try to change minds IMO.
OP for this
I’m hoping during actual wedding times I can just drink with my brother. (mature, I know, but that’s what we did last time) I’m more concerned about the, everybody hanging out at the Destination-Relative’s-House-Where-I-Am-Staying at night sitting around the fire or whatever talking. I guess I can just say I’m not feeling well and go to bed.
I know I won’t change their minds, so I guess I’m trying to avoid putting myself in a situation where I might be trying to do that.
Daisy
I think you’re not hearing what people are saying, though. We all have opinions and are regularly around people who don’t agree with us/those opinions. You will also come up with this throughout your adult life. Putting yourself to bed early is not an adult response, in my opinion. Find another topic. Move past it. People have given good advice on what to do to skirt around the topic. Personally, I don’t find a family wedding the time to engage in thoughtful discussion about anything. Focus on the occasion for the weekend, the high level stuff.
Signed,
A democrat with a family full of extreme. southern conservatives
Anonymous
Is it too late to get a hotel room? Or won’t cause too much family drama to do so? gives you the ability to actually LEAVE, rather than just retreat to elsewhere.
Shayla
I was in a similar situation recently. It really just depended upon what the speaker was saying on whether or not I dis/engaged. Sometimes I was really curious why a certain belief was held, and I would ask questions about what he was saying, but not really get into my opposing point of view. It was helpful, from that stand point. Though, I was a captive audience in 6hrs total of a car ride… so my m.o. was to just fall asleep when it seemed like things were getting out of hand and my “interesting…” remarks weren’t derailing the conversation quick enough. You might be able to do something similar. But, quality time with the family–you may not want to be sick every night. Could you plan ahead? Could you bring Cards Against Humanity or get everyone hooked on Pokemon Go? Phase 10 is an oldy but a goody in my family too. With family, sometimes I hide behind my DSLR in uncomfortable situations. I’m the family photog and everyone LOVES that, but it allows me a somewhat-physical barrier and ability to come-in-and-out of conversations without much notice. Good luck!
JayJay
If you literally cannot be in the same room as people that disagree with you politically, that’s not your relatives’ problem.
Anonymous
It’s not that I can’t, but, being targeted and having your attempts to redirect the conversation shut down gets kind of old. Sitting there and ignoring or doing the “hmmm, how interesting” tactic sometimes just feels like I’m being complacent.
JayJay
But so what if it feels like you’re being complacent? How often do you see these people? Why make this a hill to die on?
CountC
My response to that is, oh well. It’s a couple of nights spent with people who don’t care to actually understand what your position is or have a rational and thoughtful discussion. Being silent doesn’t mean you automatically agree with what you are saying, it means you are an adult who realizes you can’t bring everyone over to your side and that there is a time and place for everything.
cbackson
Anon, I sympathize, because I’ve been in similar situations before. Honestly, I’ve had luck with, “You know, I can tell we both feel strongly about this and I don’t think we’re going to agree. Can we talk about something else? I want this to be a happy time.”
Bonnie
Just don’t. Nothing good can come of discussing contentious political and social topics with family.
Anonymous
This. I’m considering suggesting a blanket “No Political Discussions” ban at an upcoming family reunion for the sake of not instigating a knock-down fight with at least one cousin.
Anonymous
I would just like this at every wedding/travel social event for the rest of the year, please.
life
I just walk away. Or I let those teasers they throw out to me just hang…. and don’t engage at all.
My extended family can be brutal, explosive in their opinions, and live in an ultra-rich and exclusive bubble. I’ve given up on them because they cannot engage in real discussions.
Fortunately, their children are amazing and thoughtful and engaged and give me hope. I have discussions with them, and they have more influence on their parents than I ever could.
Rarely, I will try to find a parallel between an experience with me/someone they can relate to and the issue under discussion. They are unable to have empathy towards people/groups that they have no contact with, which is…. so sad and dangerous. But just creating a thread that they can understand can be powerful. This is very, very hard to do…. especially in the heat of the moment. So often I have to wait carefully for my opportunity.
bridget
*Assuming* the topic cannot be avoided, the best way to handle it (among people of goodwill) is to ask a LOT of questions. “Why do you think we should try to make things better by doing X instead of Y?” is helpful: most everyone wants a better country, healthier citizens, more prosperity, etc., but firmly disagrees on how to best get there.
Idea
I do this. I repeat what people say, but as a question.
“Really? Obama is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood?”
That’s all you have to say. You don’t agree or disagree, you ask.
Blonde Lawyer
I saw a friend pull this off flawlessly at a family celebration following a funeral. He just said “excuse me” and walked away. No reason given. The rest of us kept talking without him and no one was like “what’s his deal?” We were talking about where we all ended up after high school. Guy that walked away already knew the answers and was going through a rough time and didn’t want to compare notes. His mom was the one asking and she should have known it was a touchy subject for him. The “excuse me” was flawless.
Harder to do in a home but still possible. Excuse me then go to another room. Use the bathroom. Do the dishes. Engage with family that are still in another room. Take out the dog. Change a baby’s diaper. Take out the trash.
Wildkitten
Because its an election year, none of these issues are actually happening in DC, the folks are out in their states.
Anonymous
preaching to the choir, yo.
Wildkitten
Right but your family members who are asking about DC don’t know that – they think that everything in the news must be riling this town, when in fact this town is dead. I find that “insider information” to be good at shutting down questions in election years.
A.non
This phrase applies to most, if not all people:
“Nobody wants to be judged by the worst of their group.”
Gut check -- perimenopause related
Starting in grade school, I’ve been regular. Now, I’m 6 months into High Irregularity (90 days b/w periods). Awesome? NO!
Whatever is going on with me, hormone-wise, it is making me pack on weight. I’m historically a pear, but now I’m getting a gut (I’m not up that much in pounds, but they are all in one place and appeared when my period first went MIA). Many of my clothes no longer fit or drape correctly.
I was hoping that this was a blip, but I think it’s a trend. I’m in my mid-40s, so it’s not unexpected (my mother went much later, but these genes must be from Dad’s side). I had my second child just before turning 40 and I’m confirmed as not pregnant.
What can I do to fight the shape-shifting? I’m giving up casual drinking (other than for special events) just to preserve my vanity. Squats? Make a serious point about exercise, strength training, and portion control? Time for a women-of-a-certain-age personal trainer who gets what I am going through? [I do not think that a guy or little young thing would get what is going on here.]
I feel like my body has been invaded by some strange force. :(
Anonymous
Eat less and exercise more. Same way you lose weight at any age.
Anonymous
Is that true when it is hormonally driven? I think back to using BCPs and how it either made a lot of my friends suddenly gain 5-10 pounds (but other brand, other users, other people reacted differently). Or do you need to double-down just to maintain where you were at before?
Anonymous
You should fact check this, but around menopause metabolism just starts slowing down in general and on top of that I think insulin resistance is also associated with menopause (?). So it is possible that certain kinds of foods can affect weight differently. If you think you may be insulin-resistant, it may be helpful to go on a low-GI diet (ex South Beach, paleo, etc. You don’t need to follow a named diet, though).
anon
Yes, it’s true, menopause is highly associated (highly) with insulin resistance. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be a diabetic, but avoiding foods that cause blood sugar spikes could really help.
I’m sort of in the same boat as you. Except that at only 37 my hormones were all messed up because of a rogue IUD. However, it caused me to gain a bunch of weight and I’m still struggling to get it all off.
Catlady
Definitely start lifting weights. The heavier the better. There are many women in their 40s and 50s in my crossfit classes and they love it. It’s not for everyone, but you could try an intro class at your local cf gym. If you go 3 days a week and watch your diet, even just a little, you’ll see great changes.
life
I would also check in with your doctor. You are at the prime age where many women have some thyroid issues, and this can cause a big change in your cycles and weight gain. It certainly may be peri-menopause, but that’s also a great time to check in with doc anyway for some pointers.
brokentoe
My greatest sympathies. I’m about 10 years older than you and have been in an extended perimenopause state for the last several years. I was on-the-dot regular, heavy but not crampy until my late 40’s and then I would go several months without a period. I’ve actually gone anywhere from 9.5 to 11.5 months without a period only to re-start again – 3 different times. The dreaded meno-pot tummy is real. Only keeping weight down and serious core exercises can keep it in check. Sleep disrupting hot flashes and extreme dryness of the lady bits has driven me to significant levels of HRT. Quality of life now trumps higher risk of later issues for me. Funny story – my sister who is 15 months younger than me has had none of these issues, and had irregular periods all of her life. This body betrayal just sucks – I’m sorry you’re going through it too.
anonamoose
Empathy here! I’m in my late 40s, I came to grips with the belly this weekend. I kept telling myself I was just bloated, or had eaten a lot… but it is not going away. Ugh.
I’m historically a pear, too, and was always happy to accentuate the flat tummy & small chest. Now the belly seems to dwarf my chest, and though I’m up only 6 pounds, everything look terrible!
My plan is salad for lunch, lots of water, regular running (yoga does not seem to be enough). And sounds like I need to hit the gym for some weights.
pugsnbourbon
PSA – I know Land’s End gets some flak around here, but there’s a decent sale going on right now. Up to 60% off swimwear, lots of casual t-shirts and sweaters, summer shoes, etc.
Signed, someone wearing one of those uns3xy but d*mn comfortable ponte dresses.
Anonymous
How does their sizing run on dresses? In comparison to AT, maybe?
pugsnbourbon
I am not an AT wearer but I do shop at Loft – I would say LE runs slightly larger than Loft. I’m usually in the 8-10 range in Loft, but I can swing a LE 6.
Anonymous
thanks!
An
Land’s End runs huge. You would want to order 1-2 sizes down.
2 Cents
I’ll have to check it out!
Signed, someone also wearing a comfortable LE ponte dress
Lobbyist
I’m wearing one today too!
anon
Also wearing one :)
Clementine
We got a new intern and it’s extremely clear that she absolutely has no idea what ‘professional dress’ constitutes and I am doing that thing where i know it’s not my place to teach her, but I really don’t want her to be held back by her appearance…
To give you an idea of what my office is like, men generally wear shirts and ties and I wear suits or dress+blazer probably 2-3 days/week. In the summer it’s more relaxed- men will skip the tie and I will wear ankle pants and a blouse or similar.
Our intern showed up to interview in khakis and a chambray shirt and her outfits have only gotten more casual from there. I am not this intern’s supervisor, but MAN do I just want to gently suggest that maybe she should take off her sweatshirt when she is meeting with people or consider a pair of flats or oxfords…
Anonymous
I WISH somebody had had that conversation with me when I was an intern. I’m sure I would have been mortified at the time, but the learning curve was steeper than I’d like to admit.
Do you just have one intern? No way to do a little session for interns on this kind of thing? (I interned a think tank that had various “professional education” seminars all semester, including professional dress as well as one on dining etiquette)
Clementine
You know, someone did it for me. And we do have more than one intern, but they dress very professionally. The intern I supervise actually got an informal ‘hey, it’s good that you dress up like this because then you get to go to big meetings when they come up’ chat from me, but this intern’s supervisor hasn’t had the same conversation.
I think I might broach this topic with the intern later in the summer, when I know for a fact that she’s received several paychecks.
Anonymous
Also, have you asked her own supervisor? Maybe they are already addressing/planning to address?
Clementine
So, her supervisor is a nice guy, but I don’t think he would feel comfortable having this conversation. Partially because he’s male and the intern in question is female, and partially because I don’t know that he would be able to accurately convey the nuances that make an outfit ‘not-professional’.
(BTW- just to clarify for all you interns, using an ironing board goes a long way in making something look professional. Oh, and make sure your shoes aren’t visibly dirty. Windex can clean up faux leather quite well.)
H
Agree. My very first job after college I showed up in super tight khaki pants and an untucked button down shirt. My boss politely took me aside and had me tuck in my shirt, suggested different shoes and less tight pants in the future. I was mortified but I really had no clue (college doesn’t teach you those things!) so I’m glad she did it. I’ve also heard from other bosses that they might just let someone go based on their appearance without chatting with them and cluing them in. If she’s a good worker, I’d definitely speak with her.
Shayla
Invite her to grab a coffee (or whatever) with you, and tell her. My favorite opening for conversations like this is (inspired or taken from AAM) “This is awkward, but I thought you should know…” She will be mortified, but hindsight (either in the short term or long term) will give her gratitude.
Clementine
I like it. Embrace the fact that you know it’s awkward.
Former intern
I agree that saying something to her is a good idea, but would encourage you to do it one-on-one. Individual messages in a group setting either 1) get lost because if someone is doing something so out of sync with group dynamics, they probably won’t realize that they are the subject of an ostensibly general chat, or 2) humiliate the person who is the subject of the talk because they and everyone else knows they are the problem.
Approach it with assuming good will and remember that it could be a money thing — nice clothes are expensive.
Clementine
Yeah, I think I’m going to do it one on one. Someone did this for me once and I appreciate it still.
KT
Have the conversation! it’s the best favor you can do with her.
I wish someone had taken me aside when I was an intern!
I have had the convo before with interns, and it’s awkward, because many of them are broke and asking them to buy a whole new professional wardrobe. I tried to temper it with “you don’t need a new outfit every day or be a dressed like you’re in Vogue. Simple slacks, black pumps, a couple of shells, 2 or 3 blazers and a dress are really all you need. Goodwill, thrift shops, consignment shops are all your friend” and when I could, I gave them a gift card to soften it a bit–being a poor college student trying your best is the worst.
Clementine
Thank you for the pep talk!
I’m going to intentionally wait a bit until I know that she has 1) been around long enough to notice (hopefully) and 2) received several paychecks.
Former intern
Another thought – if your workplace regularly has interns, consider writing up a paragraph about dress code that can go with the materials they receive before the first day. Something more like the description in your post of typical outfits and maybe even some pictures of people at your job – not just “we are business casual” because people don’t know what that means. A lot of people would feel like that is patronizimg but there are tons of young people that have no exposure to office jobs and the expected clothing
Meg Murry
Oh, yes please. “Business casual” is such a huge vague expanse of clothing- at some of the more casual places I’ve been, chambray shirt and khakis would have been a perfectly appropriate definition of “business casual”, and is dressier than what I’m wearing today at my “business casual only when we are expecting company” office.
An
And if you’re a business casual office, business casual = khakis to me. Not a chambray shirt, though.
An
and certainly not for an interview! That is a serious gaffe.
Clementine
Thank you, that certainly is one idea. I will say that we have rarely had issues in the past (beyond my eternal cry that just because you put a cardigan over that dress does not mean it is work appropriate) and most of our interns come in wearing suits from Day 1.
These are students in professional programs, mostly in graduate/professional school. Adding to it, I think our official dress code might still state ‘business professional’; however, on non-meeting days we might skip the jackets, but it’s not something in writing. Because of this, I don’t think that’s a great fit for my workplace.
Meg Murry
In addition, do it toward the end of the workday, preferably toward the end of the workweek, so she isn’t sitting at work all day paranoid that everyone is staring at her “wrong” clothes.
Has she worn anything that was borderline ok that you could point out, as in “the purple shirt you wore earlier this week and the black skirt you wore last week were probably as casual as you should go”.
You should probably also talk to her supervisor first, in case they have already had this conversation.
lost academic
I appreciate hearing you’re sensitive to the “received several paychecks” part of this, because when I was interning in college, I both didn’t really know what to wear and quite frankly could not have afforded to start new jobs in office oriented clothes. I was lucky enough to work at places where the best I had was just good enough, but could really have used advice much earlier. No one in my immediate family had ever worked, either, or gone to college, so I didn’t have anyone I felt I could ask.
Clementine
I had two pairs of work shoes for quite a long time- one black, one brown. I told people it was because I was a minimalist, but it was really because I couldn’t afford any more and my family was not in a position to be able to help me.
I don’t actually think that is this scenario though. I think this intern just has a very casual personal style and am not sure if she totally gets the office culture. I think though that time and a conversation will help.
Anonymous
+1
Telling the intern she needs to dress more professionally is one thing, but she might have very little money to spend on clothes.
Shopaholic
+a million
Have the conversation – I’ve had to do it with past interns and while it’s really uncomfortable, it’s necessary and helpful. I would do it towards the end of the day on a Friday and give your intern specific examples, stores or websites to look at, etc.
bridget
I like the idea of taking her to coffee. Also, talk up the great things she does, and how she has a lot of potential.
Consider what you wear that day. If it were me having that conversation, I would probably wear a basic black or grey skirt that I got on sale, and a blouse that was also on sale. Then you can point out that outfit-building does not have to be expensive.
Speaking of money: assuming that she is paid well by student standards, explain that part of that nice salary is given to finance a professional wardrobe. Students are rewarded for being smart and hardworking, and she may never have been told that salaries are about a LOT more than that.
Clementine
Oooo. That’s a very good point. We pay our interns somewhere in the range of $15-20/hour (undergrad/grad students have a differential) and they’re also eligible for benefits if they want.
Although I’m definitely not the most fashionable person on the planet, I have discovered a style that works for me. I’ve also been a poor grad student who didn’t have any family that knew how to dress for a professional work setting and starting off, Target and Goodwill were my friends.
WasAnIntern
+1 To speaking with her.
Depending on what/where she studies, she may not know where to buy professional clothes.And God knows Elle and Vogue aren’t reliable sources of advice
As a side note, H&M, F21, Target and Old Navy can sometimes have office appropriate basics
Mariah
As someone who started their first professional job the summer after my 1L year, there were some gaffes. He**, there still are sometimes. I never had someone say anything to me, and I’ve been told I always look nice by my org’s equivalent of a senior partner, but if there was a problem, I would hope she would have kindly let me know over coffee after we had developed a bit of a relationship. I would be mortified, however, to be given a gift card. As sweet as it seems, I would have been humiliated.
In terms of affordability-
My current suit is from Target. Is it SUPER NICE? No. But it matches. I keep it looking unwrinkled. And in total it was $60. It fits.
75% of my work wardrobe is from Gap. They always have sales. Black pants, button up tops, shift dresses (or their fit and flare in solid colors with heels and a blazer), even pencil skirts.
Other good places to look: If you’re a city with colleges, go to the secondhand stores near the colleges. Lots of stuff gets donated by people who had an internship they had to dress up for.
Nordstrom Rack. I have three Amanda and Chelsea skirts and a blazer. All were under $50 each.
Goodwill in the more well-off part of town- for my city, there are two areas where the Goodwills have /super/ high end stuff- DVF dresses, Proenza Schouler bags- for goodwill prices.
H&M if it will fit her. I’m usually a 6-8 and hand to get a 10-12 at H&M. Most of the stores don’t have plus sizing in lots of things. And their sizing is so ridiculous that that bar can be hit with someone who’s not traditionally plus sized. I hate how their stuff fits me but others have bad luck with it.
Macy’s and other department store clearance racks.
My supervisor got two suits BOGO at Express.
Old Navy. Can be hit or miss but for basics, 100%. Their Pixie pants, or just their dress pants in general. Shells. Even basic tees that can go below a blazer.
Last- if your town has Buy Nothing groups, I’ve seen people ask for professional clothes on there for this type of situation. I’m always more than happy to offload professional clothes I no longer wear to someone who needs them.
FormerBrokeStudent
+1 A senior colleague and I both have the same houndstooth dress from Target.
panko
Ask a Manager had a column about this, including a script.
http://www.inc.com/alison-green/how-to-tell-an-employee-to-dress-more-professionally.html
panko
and this
http://www.askamanager.org/2013/06/how-to-tell-an-intern-her-skirt-is-too-short-for-the-office.html
Anon
Any recommendations for a couples therapist in NYC? Specific areas of focus around communication and arguing productively. Both our conflict style is more avoidance, so focusing on techniques around bringing up issues would be great. Preferably in midtown with late hours. Thanks!
Hollis
I bought black 100% Egyptian cotton sheets and the first time they came out of the dryer, they had a lot of noticeable lint. Besides rolling a lint over all over, which is impractical, is there anything I can do to take off the lint or prevent this from happening?
Anonymous
Try the wool dryer balls.
life
I would never buy black sheets for this reason! Very hard to avoid lint.
The problem is likely the washer as well as the dryer.
Clean your washer and dryer well before using it to wash/dry these sheets. That means using a microfiber cloth and wipe the insides well to remove residual lint, remove debris hidden under the rubber gaskets etc… Do not wash/dry your white fluffy towels right before you wash the sheets. Always do your dark load first.
I use vinegar in the final rinse of the washer to help remove lint.
I also have lint balls and a couple of doobie scrub sponges in a delicates bag in the washer to help grab lint. If you have a top loading washer, make sure you have a ring filter on the top of the agitator to help catch lint. I’m not familiar with the dryer balls, but that sounds helpful.
I never put my black/dark clothing in the dryer at all to avoid picking up lint there. Air dry it all. But obviously this is not practical with sheets. Unless you have a house, and can put up a clothes line in the back yard and dry your sheets in the summer breeze/sun. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…… few things are nicer than sheets dried outside. Decadent.
AttiredAttorney
Dad is having hip replacement surgery today. It will be a couple of weeks before I can travel to go see him. Any suggestions for fun care package type things to send someone in hip replacement recovery? Bonus points if they’re from somewhere that will package them all together and send them for me, instead of requiring me to piece together items.
He’s a young 60, and he can’t wait to be able to fish off the beach, ride his bike, walk the dog, and get back to his regular active lifestyle ASAP.
Clementine
Things that were a hit with my FIL when he was similarly told to lay low:
-Big stack of funny magazines, comic books, etc.
-the BSAT study guide (he thought it was hilarious)
-HBO Now online membership (got him hooked on Game of Thrones and he loved John Adams)
Does he have an iPad? ITunes gift cards were nice and we loaded a bunch of games onto it. My BIL also set up a fly tying station that he could swing over his recliner while recovering. He spent a lot of time tying flies. I should note that he does not, nor has he ever fly fished. He just tied the flies…
AttiredAttorney
Thank you so much! All of these are great suggestions; the HBO Now online membership is a great idea! And yes, he does have an ipad and loves it.
Would love to know what happened to all those flies…
anon
A gift subscription to the Texture app would be awesome too. It’s got magazines for all interests.
Clementine
Lol, must share. I just texted my FIL asking, ‘Hey, whatever happened to all those flies you tied after X?’ His response was perfect.
Step 1: Tie flies
Step 2: Perfect my craft
Step 3:
Step 4: PROFIT
He’s a funny dude.
ohc
So I’m going to Cuba in a few weeks as part of a musical ensemble, and I just heard that it is encouraged for our participants to bring “pens, pencils, buttons, or any small gift as a token of appreciation” for the other ensembles with whom we’ll be performing. I absolutely want to be respectful and generous, but I’m also mindful of the First World Stuff Creep (for lack of a better term) that inundates developing nations. Any thoughts on what might be genuinely useful and appreciated but still small (and cost-conscious) enough to travel well?
Bonnie
Are these things for kids or adults? If kids, art supplies are always good and appreciated.
Anonymous
Maybe pens, pencils, and buttons that are musically themed or tied to your hometown? Just follow the directions.
ohc
Ha! I know, I’m probably overthinking–it was the button suggestion that threw me, because seriously, what adult wants a random button? (Or is that just me?)
Anonymous
It’s not about the button. It’s about the thought.
Anonymous
I use them on my bulletin board at work
AttiredAttorney
Does your region have a consumable product that’s wrapped/sealed and thus allowable through customs? For example, coming from Georgia, I might bring the little mini-packs of Georgia Grown Peanuts or Georgia peach candy, or maybe even some small bath soaps made locally.
anon prof
Thumb drives. They use them like mad to exchange files since Internet is so limited.
ohc
Brilliant idea. Thanks!
Goatsgoatsgoats
If you contact your state representative they might have small pins of your state that they’d be willing to give you for free. Small and unique!
Traveler
When I traveled in the Arab Middle East (Egypt, Syria) the street children asked us for pens.
The adults asked for cigarettes — I doubt that would be a problem in Cuba (joke about cigars).
birthday blues
Hey, hive, I need some serious real talk. My birthday is coming up, and all I want is a boyfriend and a better job, neither of which I have been able to find (and I’ve been dating/interviewing). In the absence of being able to wrap up those things, what can I get myself for my birthday to cheer myself up OR how can I just stop thinking about what I don’t have? Social media doesn’t help.
anon
enact a temporary (or permanent if you prefer- that’s what I did) social media ban. It’s amazing how much better I felt after that.
CountC
+1 It’s like pulling off a bandaid for me. It’s soooooo hard to deactivate, but once I do I feel must better. I also am way more productive!
H
Maybe a vacation? Those always seem to cheer me up, even if it’s a quick drive away, it is something different than the normal routine.
Traveler
+1, even when I’m down, at least I’m depressed somewhere else and make an effort to enjoy it.
LondonLeisureYear
Volunteer! – volunteering with refugees always helps me refocus
Do something crazy for you – take a new class, eat at a new restaurant, go on a road trip with a friend – do something out of your typical zone
Do something challenging – hire a personal trainer and become impressed with your personal strength, write an essay and try to get it publish, volunteer at a campaign booth and cold call people, go on a hike by yourself
Plan a you day – turn off that phone! Wake up without an alarm clock and go to the local coffee shop for breakfast and bring a real book, read all morning. walk around and find a place for lunch and have a good lunch, check out a museum , get a pedicure or take an afternoon hike (whatever you enjoy most), meet up with a friend for dinner at a place you love and get all the desserts!
Dulcinea
Find something to do that involves goals so you can feel accomplished. Like making a quilt or gardening/houseplants (non-euphemistically :) ) or re-finishing some furniture.
Never too many shoes
Having been to Cuba several times on vacation (I am Canadian), I would recommend packages of gum, candies and soap. All have been big hits. Also pantyhose and makeup – Cuban women are very into clothes and makeup and it is not that easy to get there.
Never too many shoes
Sorry, that was for ohc above.
Networking
Hey, asking the group for reassurance that I should still reach out.
The CEO of my large company (which is the second largest employer in our City) made an effort last fall to connect with an influential group in the City the company is based. The group was supposed to reach out to follow up to me about joining but didn’t.
I also didn’t follow up with them because work got seriously insane and imposter syndrome hit hard.
Can someone reassure me that it’s not too late to reach out? I should just bite the bullet and reach out to them now?
Thanks!
Cat
Yes! Do it. You could say something like “Hi Contact Person, a few months ago we had talked about the potential for me to join Group. I was glad to see [XYZ successful recent-ish news item regarding Group]. I’d love to discuss next steps with you whenever is convenient — I remain very interested in joining. Regards, Networking.”
Gwendolyn
This sounds like a fairly easy follow up, if the CEO made the initial contact. Just reach out and introduce yourself as the point person.
CKB
What would you guys say the female equivalent to jeans and a fun dress shirt (think bright plaids and fun prints) would be in the workplace?
CountC
Dark jeans and a printed silky-type top. Or one of the mixed media Pleione type tops. Really anything with dark jeans that isn’t club wear. If you feel that’s too casual, throw a blazer on over it.
Anonymous
For Stampede? Same – ladies country dress shirt and dark jeans or your Lees/Levis. Or a skirt and western top. Add a lady scarf or hat to fem it up a bit, if it’s a dance?
Joanna
This dress is spot on.